conversation: User (dancedanskdance): "I've read up a LOT about salary negotiation but all advice seems geared towards first entering a company, which isn't too helpful in a situation where you're already in the company. I am graduating in October and have been working in a software company in Europe. Because of my student status, the best they could give me by law was an internship contract and they pay all interns the same range ($2000 +/- 10%).\n\nAll of this will be up for negotiation when they sign me on as a permanent employee after graduation. I like this job, company and my boss, and it will be a lot less of a hassle to stay with this company (I can't speak the local language well enough so I'm limited to companies/jobs that work in English). \n\n* My company tends to convert a lot of interns into permanent entry-level executives and I've scoped out salary range (seems to be around $2500-3000 a month).\n\n* However, most of their converted interns come from liberal arts/psychology backgrounds and/or no actual working experience (ie that would be their first full-time job out of college).\n\n* Edit 2: Most of the interns work with data entry, while several few positions work with development or managerial work. Based on this + experience, I definitely should come out at upper entry or mid-level, and make more than an executive at entry-level. \n\n* I will graduate with a masters AND already have over 5 years experience in relevant fields. I deserve much more than what they typically offer for "intern to permanent" transitions (which I hope they realize and won't try to lowball me).\n\nWhat makes me worried is being put at a disadvantage in negotiation since they already have a number (what they're paying me). Also the figure I'm looking for is upwards of $4000 a month as a permanent staffer (over double my salary as an intern and I'm not sure what they will think of that).\n\nAlso since this is Europe, there's no 401k-like options, I don't think the company offers stock options, there's already 4 weeks min vacation by law, so I'm not sure what else I could negotiate for outside of salary.\n\nI'm already applying to other places as a fallback/negotiation leverage, but what can I do in negotiations for this situation?\n\nEdit: Holy shit didn't expect so many replies. Busy writing a paper today, will slowly read and reply to responses while I'm doing that! But in case I don't reply directly, know that I appreciate your advice!"
  Self: "Off topic wild guess, you are in The Netherlands / TU Delft? \n\nSupposing that is the case, I think 4000E would is a bit too good as a first job no matter the experience, but easily reachable in little time. I think you can push for 3500, and the company should not offer you anything less than 3000.\n\nAn option is, take the 3000 and offer yourself to other companies. You grow and get your raise by switching companies..."
  defrgthzjukiloaqsw (defrgthzjukiloaqsw): "You can hire Master degrees for only €3k in the netherlands?"
  Self: "Only? Yes, that was my case, as an engineer. It's sort of typical. It's less in other fields."
  AwesomeArachnid (AwesomeArachnid): "Thats about 3300USD, which is laughable for an engineer with a bachelors in a software company."
  Self: "Well, 3000E is very high for Europe. You can't directly compare salaries across the Atlantic..."
  defrgthzjukiloaqsw (defrgthzjukiloaqsw): "&gt; Well, 3000E is very high for Europe.\n\nNot for a Master Degree, no."
  Self: "Yes it is. Come to work here to get a reality check :)"
  defrgthzjukiloaqsw (defrgthzjukiloaqsw): "Maybe in east europe where you apparently live. I'm not getting out of bed for €3k."
  Self: ":D Well I live in one of the richest parts of the Netherlands so... I talk by experience. Don't come to Europe then, unless you want to stay in bed forever :)"
  defrgthzjukiloaqsw (defrgthzjukiloaqsw): "I'm quite comfortable in my german bed and i don't believe one can hire Master degrees for only €3k in the netherlands. That's ridiculously low."
  Self: "oh i mistook your username with another one from US in the same thread. either way, I know in some places in Germany it is higher (I might actually go there in 1-2 months because of that). But yes, here these salaries are normal, slightly more if you are lucky. The good thing for foreigners is that we get tax exemptions so overall it's very nice and hard to beat :)"
  