conversation: User (InTheEndThereWasPie): "I love the car buying process. It's fun, I take my time, test drive cars, find what I like and try to find a good deal on a 2-4 year old car. \n\nCar salesmen are not the ones you need to fear. Many of them are great, and work long hard honest hours to push some cars. As my dad told me before he dropped me off to buy my first used car, "When they get you in the back room, that's when they're going to try to screw you."\n\nIf you think that's a joke or an understatement, please accept the fact that it is neither. When you sit down in the chair in the finance office, you need to be as alert as a deer in hunting season. Here's how they tried to get me, and I hope I can help one person not get taken. \n\n-When I sat down, the finance manager had already opted in on my behalf for every single add-on available. I mean, all of them. They do this every time, and all they need is one final signature, not individually to keep them on. It had an extended warranty, Gap coverage, alarm system, electronics warranty, and a couple others I'll never remember. It was 10:30 at night when I finally got out of there and was exhausted. \n\nTwo things to know:\n1) You are not obligated to ANY of them, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY. When I had crappy credit, I was almost convinced when they told me the finance company REQUIRED Gap Insurance. Don't believe the nonsense. \n\n2)Apparently, after my experience last night, they are not required by any means to explain to you what you're buying. Unless the finance manager I used broke several laws, after an hour of him explaining "every detail" there was still an extended warranty for a whopping $3,000 that he barely even alluded to! When I finally said, "What's this warranty you keep saying is included?" I knew the car was under manufacturer's warranty for a short time still, I thought he was talking about that. Nope. I literally had to ask specifically, "What am I paying for that?" Without me asking that very specific question, he had no intention of mentioning the price. The car still had 13k miles on the warranty, and they wanted to sell me a new one...\n\n-You DO NOT have to buy the $1,000-$1,500 alarm system/insurance plan they will almost cry rather than remove. This was the longest part of the process as I waited twenty minutes while they fought me the entire way, using every trick in the book. Don't buy it, don't let them win. Finally, they left it on AND didn't charge me.\n\n**With all that being said. There are some that you can drastically change the price of and get a good value on something that matters. They offered a dent/scratch repair on the body and wheels for five years for $895. I spent over $1,000 over the last four years on my last car from my car being hit while parked at work, so I offered them $300 and they took it. It's something I know with no deductible I can get great value out of. \n\nWhat's difference? The difference between the number I walked in that room to and the one I left with was $150 a month... (Edit: Meaning, I left with $150 lower monthly payment after stripping everything to the bone)\n\nAgree or disagree with anyone of this, but if I can help one person not get taken, this twenty minutes was worth it. \n\nGood luck out there! \n\n-Pie\n\nEDIT: My first post with an upvote ever! Take the time to read through these comments, there are COUNTLESS great pieces of advice people are leaving! "
  Self: "I’ve gone through the process quite a few times and similar to OP, I absolutely LOVE buying new and used cars. To such an extent I haggle that I have been actually kicked out of a new car dealership. Yes, kicked out and told never to come back but only to be repeatedly called and begged to come back.\n\nThere are seven important rules when haggling that I follow, regardless if it’s for a new or used car:\n\n1. NEVER EVER sign anything, not one piece of paper  until the final price is agreed.\n\n2.  NEVER, under any circumstances, tell the sales person if you are paying cash or financing until final price is agreed. This is usually the first question asked by the sales person. Simply reply “not sure.”\n\n3. Never go by monthly payments ever. Go by final price of the vehicle.\n\n4.  NEVER confirm if you have a trade in or not until the final price is reached.\n\n5. Timing is everything. Off season winter months. Pick the last days of the month to go. The sales person needs to meet his/her quota\n\n6. Walk away. Literally, get up and just walk away if need be. They will call you back.\n\n7. Remember, no matter how nice the sales person is: they are NOT your friend.\n\n\nThis has worked flawlessly for me. Example: few months back I purchased a 2017 Model car brand new. MSRP: $25,500. With dealer discount, etc, etc... out the door price would have been 20,500$.\nAfter 8 hours of negotiation, me walking out the door four times only to be stopped by the sales person and sales manager, long “need to talk to my boss” periods of the sales guy disappearing....out the door price with taxes, title, etc, etc was $14,200 exactly. No more, no less.\n"
  checktheradar (checktheradar): "You could probably make a living charging people $1000/day to buy a car for them. If you could save me $10k off MSRP on a new car I'd pay $1k to save me the hassle."
  