conversation: User (aahjyoo): "Hello everyone, I'm not so sure if this is the right subreddit for the advice I am seeking, but if not please guide me through to the right one.\n\nI'm 18. I went straight out of high school and on to work at a dental clinic to save up for travels overseas.\nThe workplace is poorly managed, but since it offers great pay compared to the money my peers were making at their jobs I took up the offer right away.\n\nThey offered me $18/hour for the first 3 weeks, $20/hour for the next 3 weeks then $22-24/hour for the weeks that followed, depending on how much I able to do at the time, as they were hoping I could also start being a dental assistant as well as a receptionist.\nI told them I would be staying on for August or September this year, although my plans were unsure yet.\nDuring this interview it was made clear that I shouldn't be discussing my rate with anyone else in the clinic though, which was odd. \n\nI should have seen this coming though, as they always "forgot" to give me the pay rise when it came time to, and refused to pay the difference that they owed me as the paperwork would be too difficult, or that was the excuse.\n\nAfter around 3 months though, my pay has been at $22. The practice manager has said that my pay would be raised again in a couple weeks time, as she was acknowledging my fast progress in learning dental assisting. I had been assisting the dentists by myself for around 2 weeks at this point.\n\nThen, I had to amend my plan and get some flights that left for July, due to things that came up here and there.\n\nI let one of my collegues know, which eventually found its way to the practice manager.\n\nThe last few weeks though, has been quite eventful here at our clinic as one of our branches has just been sold and one is about to close down. \n\nI decided to focus on getting other things in my life sorted, before bringing up the payrise again. \n\nWhich, I did today. \n\nAnd I recieved this reply from the manager:\n&gt;"OP, you are leaving us. I was expecting you to leave at the end of the year which was what you told me at our interview. You went ahead and book your tix for July. That's a total of 6 months. I have already raise your pay twice during the last 4 months! Don't you think that is reasonable on our end? Considering you are now putting us at a position for having to look for someone else to replace you? I find that is very inconsiderate of you to even have the audacity to ask me for another pay rise. Please let me know if I'm not being reasonable here."\n\nNow, there are a bunch of things to let you know:\n\n**1.** 2 out of 3 clinics that I am working at are closing/being sold. I will not be working there after July even if I was staying, as July would be the day they officially stop operating. This means all staff will be cut down, no need to even hire new people when so many will be fired already. But this is a sensitive topic to bring up to her. This topic makes her ashamed to talk about in front of the employees, and she even pretends that none of this change is happening although we are already telling patients we are shutting down. It's nonsense but I don't want to argue this if I can avoid it.\n\n**2.** I didn't tell her that I was leaving at the end of the year, I told her it would be September or August most likely and end of the year if things didn't work out. \n\n**3.** My pay is significantly smaller than most people working there. Another employee there gets paid $30+/ hour, and most get paid mid$20s/hour. I'm not the most experienced, but I can do the same jobs other people do with the same result. BUT the manager doesn't know that I know this. She probably doesn't want me to know at all let alone argue with her about it.\n\nWhat should I say? I really need the money, as I have been budgeting with the idea that I would be getting a pay rise.\n\nTL;DR *My boss keeps on refusing me to get a pay rise, I don't want to let her know that I know the underground situation in the workplace but I want the payrise that was promised. Help?*"
  Self: "First off, it is not odd at all for an employer to instruct you to not discuss your pay with others. I will never understand why millenials (I am unfortunately lumped in with millenials because Im 30) think they should do that. Your pay should be between you and your employer for many reasons. The number one reason is that comparison is the ultimate source of discontent. If you are doing a job and are happy with your pay, what the fuck does it matter what anyone else gets paid?! If you are doing a job and are unhappy with your pay, ask for more money. If you are worth it (according to the business' needs), your employer will give it to you. If you aren't, they won't. Again has NOTHING TO DO with what your coworkers are getting paid! \n\nOn another note, your life seems very hectic. I own a business myself, and if I was paying an 18 year old $22/hr and they came to me and said that they won't be working for me much longer but feels like they deserve a raise, I might lose my fucking mind. I'd honestly probably fire them right there on the spot. I don't think you really appreciate how rare it is for an 18yo to be making that kind of money. It's not permanent anyway, so just suck up your jealousy and collect the paychecks while they are available to you. Believe me, 22/hr is not normal for an uneducated/inexperienced 18 year old. Don't expect that kind of shit to fall into your lap your whole life."
  kwark_uk (kwark_uk): "If you wish to discuss your compensation with your peers you should absolutely feel free to do it. Capitalism is only able to be efficient between equally informed rational actors. Employers seek to limit the access to salary information for employees in order to limit the negotiating power of those employees.\n\nMillennials think they should discuss salaries because they understand that they are being fucked by conventions which have been set by groups whose interests are diametrically opposed to theirs. "Don't discuss your wages" is right up there with "an engagement ring should be 3 months salary" in a shortlist of stupid things idiots say to fuck themselves over."
  Self: "You know whose negotiating power it limits? The people who don't know their own value. You have obviously never been in charge of a business or workforce. Not discussing wages is 100% to reduce discontent among employees. It is a vicious cycle. Some people are worth more money...even though they are doing the same job. Everyone thinks they are worth more than they actually are (even if we are only talking about the value of the job itself rather than the employee). So lets say you have 3 guys, all content with their jobs, all doing similar work, but all making different salaries, and all of the sudden they have knowledge of one another's salary, here is what happens... the guys getting paid the least get pissed and demand more money. Assuming they get it, the guy who tries the hardest feels like he deserves more than his lazy counterparts, so he goes and demands a raise. If he gets it, the guys who just got a raise will be discontent again because someone else is getting paid more than them, but he probably won't get it since raises have already been given to the lazy people and they now know that the employees share salary info with each other. So then he stops trying as hard. And then you have the guy who has been in the position the longest getting pissed off because he thinks his seniority should come into play. Vicious cycle. Comparison is the thief of contentment. If you think you are worth more, go negotiate more. If you aren't happy with what you have negotiated, then quit! This is a free country! You don't HAVE to work there! Explore your other options! If you don't have any, then maybe you aren't as valuable as you think."
  kwark_uk (kwark_uk): "If you were my boss I would absolutely quit. I can do better."
  Kheiner (Kheiner): "If you were my employee I would expect you to."
  