conversation: User (travelsizegirl): "My husband and I are in our early thirties.  Neither of us completed high school; we both have GEDs.  We both come from very financially and emotionally unstable backgrounds.  We have a lot of reasons/excuses to fail in life.  And we did, for a while.\n\nThen we found plumbing.  My husband went through his apprenticeship first while I financially held down the fort (driving 18 wheelers, which is a great short term way to earn a good amount of money).  He still made between $12-15/hr throughout his two year apprenticeship, which is a lot better than no dollars per hour, and now he is paid commission and nets about $60/k year.  That is low for this company and he will make more as he gains confidence and experience.\n\nI have now decided to follow in his footsteps and got lucky with a $15/hr position as a completely green apprentice.  As a female, it was VERY hard to break in with no previous labor experience, but I found a female-owned company that gave me a shot.  I'm 3 months in, 21 to go for my Tradesman license.\n\nSo, for now, we have a combined net income of about $85k/year, and no debt of any kind.  Within two years, that income should rise to $120-$150k very realistically.  More is entirely possible as half the plumbers at the company we both currently work for bring home $90k or more.  Also, this is for service (residential) plumbing, not commercial or union.  You can make great money in both of those arenas as well (especially union if you're in a good state for it).\n\nI think that most states do not have a Tradesman license, so in that case, your apprenticeship would be 4 years to get your Journeyman.  I still think it would be well worth it for a lot of people.  \n\nI just thought I would make a post giving some people a first-hand, real world example of making it without a college degree or any student loan debt.  And the job prospects are fantastic.  There are no plumbers in my city that look for a job for more than a few days... and they have multiple offers to choose from.  The fact is that there are not enough plumbers to go around, and that is true of a lot of trades.  The job growth in plumbing over the next 20 years is double the national average.\n\nUnless you are disabled, there are no excuses.  And yes, ladies, you can do it, too.  I do.  I'm 5'1" and weigh 118 lbs and I do it.  I have trouble helping lift water heaters into and out of attics, and the company tries to keep me off water heaters when possible, but I still do it.  Yes, it will be harder.  But no one ever got anywhere by whining about fairness or difficulty.\n\n&amp;#x200B;\n\nI will try to answer questions if there are any."
  Self: "Great post, and an idea I preach when I talk to people searching for a path. I always tell them about a former bf who was way too smart for his own good who started college majoring in nuclear physics, who dropped out and went into the electrician's union instead. He loved that his mind was free to think about other things and that it was relatively stress free. He eventually owned his own shop and retired comfortably. \n\nNow my 26-y-o daughter is applying to the plumbing union. There's a group that's helping her called Tradeswomen for women in the trades or trying to get in. There's a branch in her state and maybe in yours. They're coaching her and I hope she will succeed. \n\nCollege is great and there are statistics that show that a degree results in much higher incomes over a person's lifetime, but it's not for everyone."
  ChadeepThundersheet (ChadeepThundersheet): "The higher incomes from college is a historical correlation. I suspect that we may find in the future that college harms the financial prospects of the newer generations due to the opportunity costs, loan principal, loan interest, lost retirement contributions, etc."
  Self: "I don't disagree, but would just add that most statistics are historical, at least those that are counting things that exist. \n\nBut you're right: the loans are throwing a monkey wrench into the works for sure. If a student has scholarships, work-study, or tuition benefits, though, it's possible to get through a degree without loans, and in that case I believe there is a robust advantage to a college degree vs high school diploma. I used all three of those ways to pay for college through a master's, and of course worked at least part time all 6 years, and I was lucky enough to not have to borrow money."
  