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1) This 0.8.6 supertest info doesn't come from from my usual source, so I cannot confirm its validity.
2) The supertester himself claims this info might be outdated soon, because on supertest, vehicle properties are changed between each round. It's just here to demonstrate the way Wargaming is thinking
- arty will get a rate of fire nerf of roughly 15-40 percent: GW Panther will (with its top gun) fire once per 31 seconds
- accuracy and aiming time will be nerfed: Some examples - russian B-4 cannon had 8 sec aiming time and 0.8 accuracy as of the supertest. GW Panther had 0.7 accuracy
- arty tiers shifted around a lot (they are still experimenting with this, so I wouldn't take this anywhere near granted):
Furthermore, regarding the shell changes: APCR and HEAT nerfs are apparently planned, HEAT shells might get reduced damage.
Seems bit severe nerf, if they reduce their accurancy so much I think they should increase spalsh. Unless arty gets ability to blow up every stone and house.
but i'm afraid Arty lovers, will continue to invest the game, they are like a virus, feeding off scouts for spotting and eating heavies.
it's time to congratulate WG on a obvious move. and hope they will continue to punish Arty players for their obsessive behavior that ruins WoT.
Agree. Good players don't have problems with arty. The incompetent ones do. What's next? TD nerf, because "teh big gunz are too powerfull and kill me OMG every time"
comeon guys.. it doesnt matter if ur a noob or a good player, sitting behind a stone, the whole time is no fun for anyone... players who like this r one step away from becoming an arty player themselve :P
So when will they nerf the heavies so that the mediums and lights have a chance if people stop playing arty? seriously though there are enough threads on friendly fire from arty, do we really want another accuracy nerf? i can see the ROF on high end guns. maybe i've just been lucky in my tier9 and 10 games seen 3 or 4 arty max, its not that big of a deal.
guys..... what if the do more damage now? :) maybe they nerfed them that hard because they want to maximize the damage/splashradius? :)
from artys not only the noobs suffer the whole team does when there is 10 arty( T7-8)+few "noob"light tank on the map where no "arty safe" place and everybody sit in the bushes/hard cover and try to avoid to get spotted for 15min and i dont like waste 15min of my life or they have good spotter and arty do all the damage and u start woundering why u have T10 hvy/med/td where u cant move out of cover because even a T6-7 arty can hit u for 1000+ damage with no skill at all or just track u down and u are good as dead but there is better when u get oneshoted at the 1st 5 min and they dont even know how to play this game thats why i play T10 late night where only few arty and u get a taste how this game should be played tank vs tank where med can flank or tds can hold postions with no hard cover to get the best out of it to make damage and enjoy the game
I just copied the info I got. I think that the "missing" tiers are vehicles that haven't changed (for example US T57), but it's not possible to tell how exactly will it look for now.
They are experimenting guys! They will NOT fuck up CW so much. Not when they say they are preoccupied with the high end content.
Nerfing rate of fire, accuracy and aiming time will end with noone playing arty. It would be much better to limit number of arty in battle but Wargaming is mentally not able to understand that.
Moving M37 up and M7 down have no sense with overall levelling arty up. Priest fits to new IV tier arty and M41 is equal to Hummel so should go to VI tier. I'm not sure what could be included as V tier of US arty.
Bison should be left on II tier, Sturmpanzer II on III and Wespe could be moved to IV tier as this is excellent counterpart of Priest.
I thought the GW Tiger with 17cm gun would go to tier VIII and the GW Tiger with 21cm gun would be tier IX and gets a new name: GW Elephant.
I really hope current GWtiger get tier9, cause i don't want to grind another arty to get technical engineer:german.
Right now the M7 has better ROF and armor while the M37 has better mobility. If they give the M37 the better ROF it will be perfect. We all know that mobility is better (for arty) than armor. (GW E)
It's not that they don't understand that reducing the number of arty per battle is important; they've said that themselves. It's that they're trying to find a way of doing it with their existing queue time system without endless dumping arty and a few unfortunates into arty only battles at queue expiration.
I play arty daily and I never was dropped or waited very long. In fact I'm often the only arty in the team. If this queue issue exist for high tier arty only, they should fix it there. But again, not every battle of VIII-X tiers have 3-4 artys, quite often there are no arty at all. But if there are so many high tier arty players, queue system fails - during one evening in one battle there are no arty and there are 4 in another.
If I have now S-51, will I get free SU-8? I had this orty only for T8 companies, and I don;t need T7 arty. Or T-7 will be able to play in Champion companies?
If you have researched the arty tree up to a certain point, let's say you have it up to S51 (with the S51 in the garage but not the SU8), and the S51 is moved up in the tiers, then you will keep the S51 researched, you will keep it in the garage and all new arties in the tree up to S51 will be researched for you, but you will not receive any vehicles delivered to your garage for free.
You will not get free tanks, they only do that when a tank is REPLACED, not when it is moved around.
If the arty's accuracy is nerfed while the huge alpha and the tank-crippling capabilities of HE remain the same, then the game will only become even more random than before, with hits feeling just as bad.
I don't see changes in this direction as a proper solution to the arty issue. However, if it discourages people from playing arty, it may work out in the end, at least in the eyes of tank drivers. I don't like the approach (make an element of the game un-fun enough so that enough people stop playing it), though.
No, I do not have a fully-fledged solution to the arty issue myself. Even though changes to HE mechanics, alpha and shell trajectories are on my mind, I consider the whole concept of arty (both the intend and its implementation) to be flawed. Arty gameplay and tank gameplay are too fundamentally different to exist in the same match IMHO.
Queue "arty hator!1" cries from people who do not understand that I actually feel sorry for both the arty players and their victims ingame. WG has offered additional gameplay choices by implementing arty in its current form, yet they ended up hurting both sides with it. The hurting will continue for at least one of the sides unless the concept is changed.
I'd actually buff the firerate and splash radius a bit, but severely nerf hp damage and accuracy from artillery to simulate barrage firing. Getting a direct hit would be rare but damaging, but most of the time it would be multiple small hits close by instead of a single pinpoint ~1000 damage hit every 30 seconds.
I'd still prefer there to be a gamemode where arty would be good at hurting the objective instead of tanks, kinda like bombers in WoWp or War Thunder that hunt ground targets and ships. Same would go with tank HE shells, there would actually be a reason to carry more of them instead of the 1 or 2 used for decapping.
Seams great, realy looking forward into the details of this. Altough i think the HEAT dmg nerfs would be aimed especialy at tier 5, i hope they would also include higher tier guns as well (tier X)
Quite frankly the problem wasn't really the damage they cause, but the widespread availability of said rounds now (since they made premium ammo available for credits).
I could live with the concept high rof, terrible accuracy and slightly higher splash. Or to increase the impact angle of all shells.
The HEAT shell nerf is most likely only going to affect low tier DERPs as on other tanks its not in need of a nerf.
Finally the artys are being made as they should be, inaccurate, slow machines with huge damage, not rtarded OP with laser guided shells.
You DO understand that hitting something 700m away with 0.45~ gun is more luck based than lottery? Okay, I fully support this nerfhammer of +40%rld and -50%accuracy, but please, increase splash range at least three times to compensate. Even now splashing someone from 0.5m away with 203HE does like 200 dmg, if lucky...
I hope they will not nerf the HEAT damage on the Tier X mediums. Because after it, they will be useless in CW.
What if they were to remove arties altogether? Maybe replace arties with some new kind of tank type? I just don't see any way to make arties "work" in the game atm.
"APCR and HEAT nerfs are apparently planned" I hope this won't affect T10 meds, that use APCR as regular ammo.
It is not exclusively SPG PATCH. There are some gameplay tweaks coming along too (it was said on this blog at least once). Besides - is there a single SPG in game that fires APCR? These are steps that WG undertakes to balance the T5 gold derps.
APCR from tier X mediums doesn't lose as much of penetration over the distance as the "gold" APCR does :P
Its is since ages long needed to nerf the crap out of gold ammo especially tier 10 battles. I mean CW. Those who think thats a bad idea, think of it again and imagine yourself in a maus, the most armored vehicle in the came with the thickest and most useless armor in CW because you get shot by 350-400mm pen gold rounds. Fun right?
Woras i totally agree with you! Maus is amazing tank (despite of it's house-huge size) but needs buff. AQnd i can't wait for japanese tanks... JEEZ I LOVE THEM ALREADY
I don't get it. Why are they messing around with the Arty like that. A limit to number of Arties would have been enough. If you have to wait 10 Minutes to get into a game, you have the same effect as if you make the game itself with a nerfed Arty unpleasent.
But actually I recently had plenty of games without any arty in it. So if can not be the issue that there is too many arty players that do not find a spot in a game.
and what about you in queue in 10 min and you get retarded team and the game is finished in 3 min, then you have to wait another 10 min in queue again and again.... that's not frustrating?
WoT is changing for NooB's... WG, if this nerf's became true You should change game name from World of Tanks to Counter Strike In Tanks LoL!
I see where this is going... Instead of hardcapping arty number @3 they make it totally unplayable so nobody, literally nobody plays it anymore and, yea, the same effect! Or is it? Arty isn't good enough even today.
Limited arty is a good thing: breaks lemming trains and forces thinking. Too much of course isn't, cause stalemates and gods roaring from above make everyone unhappy. Limited arty can actually break stalemates, too. So, everyone hating arty, keep calm and think.
So now no1 will play artys and people gonna cry about op TDs... By the end of the year all vehicles in game will deal max 100 dmg... Only thing that changed after arty nerf was that pretty much no1 plays lower tier arty. On X tier you still get 5 artys per team. Pretty obvious solution is limit 3 per team, if they had to wait hours to get into game, they would play it less...
Destroying the fun with arty to solve the problem is like saying "To many scouts / lights in some rounds? So let's cap their speed at 40 km/h and half their viewing range!"
Going the easy but silly way instead of the correct one which would be a hardcap at 2/3 arties per side makes no sense at all.
Even with crappy arties the situation won't change at all, we still will have rounds with 10 arties (followed by 0) and the high tier pussies not able to pay their repair bills will keep hiding.
for thoose of you who don't wnat to do the math: 1 round per 31 seconds =1.93 rpm. a decrease of 0.62rpm. a nerf of 24.3% in rof
Remember that GWPanther is bumped up one tier, and thus rate of fire should be compared to the SPGs at that tier.
The new t8 artillery should perform like the current t6 artillery, chances are it will be even weaker. Thus if the GWP is moved to t7 it should definetly be weaker than it is right now.
You are wrong. The gw panther is actually bumped down a tier(atm it's effectively t8). Therefore the nerf is nit surprising.
Its tier 6 now, its going to be tier 7 soon. No matter how your mind twists its imaginary "effective" levels to whatevertier..
So is it a nerf, if its balanced to its new tier? No, in my opinion. Nerfed to what it used to be, sure. Would you call it a neft, when MAUS would be put to tier 1, and its gun would be changed so it reflects the general level of other guns of that tier?
GWpanther right now have a MM spread of battle tier 9-10 (making him an effective tier8 vehicle). When tier7 it will have a MM spread of battle tier 7-8-9 so u are an idiot sir.
Gee, did you check YOUR facts? Last time I checked, few seconds ago, tier 8 vehicles are at battletier 8-10.
And wait, here the source (I bet you do find yourself calling people idiots often, without them realising that you are the idiot here...)
So what were you talking about effective levels? 9-10? Common for tier 8 vehicles? Please, point a tier 8 tank which has battletier which are talking about. Sir, you are the idiot here, please keep up the good job.
And it doesnt still fking make him anything but tier 6 vehicle, which is move up to tier 7, and should only be compared to tier 7 SPGs.
It's more complicated in companies - where it stops to be top tier available for champion companies, but will cost 1 point more.
Changes to arty will be even more devastating in 7/42 format, where extra 2 points with the same performance will highly reduce usefulness of arty on most maps.
SPG tier7 right now have a MM spread of 10-11 making them like tier9, so comparing a future tier7 with MM spread 7-8-9 to an actual SPG tier7 with MM spread 10-11 is dumb.they're completely different tier fighting different tanks. The post 8.6 GWpanther tier7 has to be weaker than current tier6 gwpanther cause right now GWpanther got a MM like a tier8 tank (to be fair a worst MM than a normal tier8 cause he doesn't get battletier 8) so ur argument that future tier7 GWpanther need to be compared to actual tier 7 spg is stupid.
Oh TheWhopper, your prose is as bloated and disgusting as your name. Please learn to write properly or come back here after you've finished high-school.
just I expect not to see any more one GWtiger making 2200 hp damage to a E100, or the fucking hummel making 900 hp damage. or the incredible S51, su14 or su8 making 1000 hp damage every time.
As I have always told everyone, who whine about changes and "nerfs", there are no effect whatsoever if you're good player.
Good player adapts into the situation and will stay victorious. Those who don't know what they're doing will end up underperforming no matter what WG changes in game. There will always be good players and bad players, no amount of "nerfs", "fixes" or (my favourite) "balances" will chance that.
I never had problems with arty being "OP", it was just matter of learning how arty plays and how to counter it. Bad players might find that difficult and start complaining but that's their problem not mine.
WTF are WG thinking? Accuracy and aiming time nerf, Im okay with it; rate of fire nerf, Im also okay. But when they both get nerf, they just making arties become useless.
So you want arty be even more random? Way WG is doing is not taking away troll shots, but makes arty really unreliable. Arty players will get even more frustrated than currently because misses with perfect aim, and tankers will still complain that their dear tank got penetrated when hit. So this doesn't fix anything.
Good this will draw some people away from playing arty. Those nerfs sound too good to be true tho, theres something fishy about it.
Wow. Two third of the shots even miss a standing tank in the T92 with it's 0.62 accuracy and now one of the most accurate arty will miss even more.
And playing as one of 5 arties is painfull. No one is marking targets so you are loosing a lot of shells.
Research will probably be cheaper then now, so you may save 70kxp. But Obj261 will cost 6.1M cr as tierX... Decide what is better for you, spend more xp now or more credits after patch (if u still want to play arties then :D).
Not sure about all these nerfs- but above all, penetrating hits from arty should be removed. Randomly generated massive damage is stupid, it's supposed to be a game of skill and not luck. -Platypusbill
Massive damage isnt randomly, its skill - if you use for example French arties with low splash/dmg but accurate, you may aim and hit weak parts (top or rear) of vehicles. This will not changed unless acuratte will be much worst (then will be luck).
I hope they will increase price for tier X artillery,so I will sell it without loss of silver coins.
My first thought after reading this was: they went full retarded. The arty already got a special nerf patch once, it was nerfed before indirectly when they chanced the mechanics for HE shells (doing less damage). I don't want to talk about arty characteristics (i'm lazy), but the arty is in the limits of balance and too much influenced by RNG. As a CW player i want to say that the importance of the arty dropped even more after the introduction of tier 10 mediums, that made the game more dynamic. In conclusion: the arty is OK, the player base is still full with noob whiners. If they do this, the arties will be totally useless and unplayable, and i think all players that grinded them will prefer the arty lines to be removed and get back the xp...
I agree to this 100%. It is mostly the whining and the most doing that aren't even playing arty and if they are they haven't reached above T5. This bitching will reach the next level:
True. And we see that in comments here too - so many noobs crying "the hell with arty". They don't play arty, they never learned how to play and how to avoid it. They stay highlighted in one place for 15-20 seconds and are surprised with direct hit from arty. Then we can read "fuck arty cheaters" on chat and I'm quite sure such whiners are reporting "arty issue" to Wargaming.
I only play WoT because of arty and scouts. Kill arty and you kill scouts. I will not renew premium until I know the full impact of this killer patch.
Let's create a game 15 vs 15 on a 50m by 50m map, with everyone same hps and same damage, no random. FUN!
Ridiculous, almost all the good players I know (and by good, I mean unicum) absolutely despise arty.
Well i might be wrong but the reason why unicum players(quickybaby for example) mostly hate arties is they are too rng... this accuracy nerf would make them even more rng while making them for most part quite useless for anyone who wishes to play them. Increase in splash damage cant work becouse it would destroy any hard cover(houses, rocks) usefulness. I feel that hardcap isnt that bad idea waiting for bit longer for match is ok in my book:). They should relly nerf only tier 8(future tier 10) arty as it causes too much problems for slow and big heavies and is far too common in tier X battles.
The problem is, noobs with 45% wr whine "oh nooo 5 arties" but they can never understand with their little brain that their team also has 5 arties, all you need to do is scout better, you get exp for scouting too suprise suprise!!! not middlesuiciderush... but sadly such ppl who dont understand game mechanics are majority, this nerf is because of such retards, and wg will always listen to those zombie 99% instead of normal players, cause more gold more cash -.-
Perhaps your post might be more credible if you posted your name so we know you're not one of those '45% wr...retards'.
Ahhhh isnt it nice??people call it a sever nerf!! REALLY? when we were asking WG for a simple hardcap of 2-3 arties, these crybabies would scream :oh no! im gonna have to wait longer!!
Well now enjoy this sever nerf!! you didnt liked our first purposal, now i hope you enjoy this one haha xD
I'm a huge artyhater, if it depended on me I'd remove that shit from the game. But these kinds of changes are just completely retarded and wrong. The problem with arty has always been that it could randomly oneshot or severely cripple a tank without that tank having any way of doing anything about it. This change doesn't address that issue. Artys are gonna have the same mm as other tanks so every arty will now be able to oneshot tanks it meets but it will just be even more random than it is now. Complete bullshit. What was needed to make it better for both artyfags (cant imagine anyone enjoying this new aimtime and accuracy... tho its gonna be even more of a trollfest since every direct hit will be pretty much a guaranteed oneshot kill) and normal players was to increase the rof and accuracy but brutally decrease damage so that even direct penetrating hits couldnt do more than, say, 600 dmg, on tier X.
Better gameplay would be the arty battery simulation idea, where there is an area of effect for 3 seconds, but I don't think WG will go there for game realism reasons.
"The problem with arty has always been that it could randomly oneshot or severely cripple a tank without that tank having any way of doing anything about it. "
Arty is random (that's not good but that's the fact). You can't consistently hit the enemy you may just make it more or less probable.
As a tank driver you also can't do anything definite to avoid arty fire, but you may severly decrease a chance of enemy arty hitting you while increasing chance your arty will be able to hit enemy.
But in random battles that requires cooperation and mutual understanding between tank and arty players, and too many people focus on their tank and it's role only, even some very effective but simple minded unicums
well thats my point... artyfags cant do anything about hitting or not hitting enemy tanks because its too fucking random and these changes would make it even more so. You say it yourself - you cant do anything definite, its all up to the RNG gods both on the side of the arty and the tanker. Id much rather have extremely accurate arties shooting at me more often but doing 200-400dmg than have one random shot which even a 40% winrate retard can shoot do 2k dmg to me.
for knobby: read it again, i said make them shoot twice as fast so even t10 arties would be shooting once every 20 seconds which is as fast as t10 TD's while being able to shoot you anywhere and you being unable to do shit about it, unlike you can do something about TDs
IMO tier 10 TDs are more op than artys, much more accurate, also can hit for 1k dmg and relads 2x faster and many many more pros. WG dont know how to fix MM so they nerf artys. Time to wait for 0.8.6 and earn 10k credits...
Unfortunately, this is the equivalent of tabloid press reporting. Your supertester has only given us the 'juicy scandal' pieces without any of the technically interesting stuff (if authentic at all as you said).
The same sort of arguments were thrown around when the VK2801 was "OMG moved up a tier and nerfed omg! omg!". The matchmaking will completely change. GWPanther will be facing, on average, lower tier vehicles. It's spalsh damage will be greater against more lightly armored vehicles. Anyway, it will be balanced to it's matchmaking.
What would be more informative is the stats of the new T10 arty. I suspect they have changed very little from the T8 version. We can't really judge how it will effect CWs until we see these numbers.
Finally, I hope they make sure the whole tree is researched (including new arty and modules). If not, there will be a new arty glut after the patch as many will want to fill in the gaps. The reason why arty numbers have reduced over the last week or so is because research costs will be lower after the patch and many have stopped at a convenient place until 8.6 hits.
for GW Panther I would agree that ROF nerf may be appriopriate with moving 1 tier, but accuracy 0.7 - not.
arty is already random as hell, with 0.7 accuracy on an arty considered a sniper so far - what do you expect to do with it?
However even if they will balance arty for random battles I'm really curious how big a hit arty will get in companies and e-sport
SPGs are NEVER OP, what we have now are just alots of noobs which can't understand they will always need cover and showing their side or even their ass to enemies.
Now WG are going to tend those retardedby nerfing something not realy great already, who will be the next? TDs I guess, coz they can pen your mighty heavy tank when you sit on the center of a opening, along from your team, which everyone can see and shoot you.
Imagine a game with 15 vs 15, full of AMX duckies only, the game gonna be like that someday if WG decide to keep changing the game for 45% noobs.
im not a noob and i still think arty is op. a s-51 can randomly oneshot a jgpz e-100 (i did that last week) this huge randomfactor and the high apha dmg artys have kills the fun in hightier games especialy when there are 3 or more artys each side
All high pen guns are OP because you can randomly hit in the ammorack and blow up whole tank with just one shot. Let's cut pen by half and nerf accuracy from 0.34 to 0.54.
I got a mixed feeling with this one, it definatly will make me play my GW Panther lot less because if the changed will be really that harsh the fun with it is over.
Yet i completely understand why they do this, as i currently drive 95% IS-8 to grind the IS-7 i usually get in matches with 4-5 heavy artys on each side, end result is nearly always that noone dares to move... sometimes it feels like the server is crashed as nothing moves at all.
In the end i guess only those that really want to use the Arty for CWs and Platoons will still drive them and the fun faction will loose interest.
instead of learning the noobs how to play against arty they nerf it like every other tank that makes fun like VK2801 or T-50-2.
If you have a T8 Arty you spent really much time and XP to get it. So all those people being happy about the nerf should imagine their T10 get unplayable, I want to see what they say then.
I want to see their reaction when they call for help or request arty fire on that TD that is raping them (just imagine Assault scenario) and arty can't help them. Whom are they going to blame then?