 Hey guys, we're Gladwell the Verge and I'm here with Damien Dinning, head of imaging at Nokia. Although you do have a more specific job title and I would like to let you perform to that. Thank you. It's one of those classic Nokia job titles. I'm lead program manager for imaging experience and smart devices. Head of imaging. Head of imaging otherwise. All your devices are smart devices, right? That's right. If you ask Stephen Eilert, he thinks even your feature phones are smart phones. Awesome, right? All our products are awesome. The reason we're here today and the reason we're meeting you is because of a truly awesome device, a truly awesome new technology we just introduced, which is the 808 POV. Tell us about this one. This is a development that many of us have been involved in for about five years. It started with a desire for us to do something radically different. In the early days, people were fixated with megapixels. In the early days, that was right to be fixated and increase the number of megapixels. That's how image quality improved dramatically. Once you got to five or six megapixels, the improvements weren't really coming through image quality. Yes, sure, improvements in processing technology and optics made further improvements to the image, but they weren't really coming from the increasing the number of megapixels. At that time, we also wanted to do optical zoom. It was a real challenge to get optical zoom into a device that fits in your pocket with the performance that we wanted to be able to provide. You actually thought about having optical zoom on smartphones? Yes. In fact, we had a number of concepts. Obviously, we had the N93 and 93i around 2006, 2007. We introduced those products. We really wanted to, around that time, the expectation level for imaging was also increasing. We thought if we're going to exceed that expectation, then we needed to do something radically different. We couldn't do that with conventional optical zoom designs in the space with the performance that we wanted to be able to realize. Were you considering, let's say, mechanical optical zooms and also, I guess, software solutions? Yes. In fact, I worked on a number of those projects, which were looking at different technologies. You don't happen to have any prototypes in your pocket or something like that? Not in my pocket, no. The massive Nokia with an optical zoom on it. No, I don't have anything like that. So we're stuck with the 808 PureView, but what have you done in terms of zoom with that one? Because you have done something. This is where we utilized the very high resolution 41 megapixel sensor with these revolutionary Carl Zeiss optics, which have 10 times higher precision in the manufacturing process and the tolerances, et cetera, than in the SLR lenses. That was the level of precision that we had to go to to be able to make the optics work with such a high precision, high resolution sensor. In addition to that, we also had to make a breakthrough in processing technology as well. When video, for example, we're handling over one billion pixels per second when you're recording video. And that's over 16 times more data throughput than most other camera smartphones in the marketplace today. That enabled us to get this, to utilize this, the algorithms that we've developed, capitalized on all that information in detail from the sensor and coming through the high resolution optics, combining the information from multiple pixels to create fewer but higher quality pixels, which fit with the modern way of handling and capturing images that we have today, particularly some sharing on social sites, et cetera. But even if you wanted to post a print, the five megapixel images that we capture have far more detail and quality than any other camera smartphone that you could possibly imagine. I saw a sample of some of those pictures and they were terrific. I was looking for fine grain noise. I mean, they're samples, you picked them yourselves, right? Sure. But they were really impressive images, so I fully agree with you. But this over sampling algorithm of yours is something very interesting because, like you say, it's 41 megapixel sensor in total. That's right. Which I still don't believe. Maybe I can show you something. Yeah. Okay. Something's coming out of the pocket. So this is the actual sensor that we're using. This is the middle one is a regular smartphone sensor and this is the sensor that we're using in the 808 PureView. Okay. And the one on the top left? This is a smaller five megapixel module. Wow. So what is the actual square footage of this? The optical format is one over 1.2 inches. Right. Yeah. And I've actually seen the whole camera module. You showed us the camera module yesterday. And it is about a centimeter cube, so it's a centimeter in height, width and depth. So it's a big old thing that you're using this camera. It is. It's been quite a challenge. Could we put up the phone itself as well? Sure. Alongside. The camera is right here behind those cloud eye optics like you're saying. That's right. And you do have a dedicated shutter key, which is something that's kind of coming, well, it's coming out of style these days. Some people like the hardware key. It's a two-stage key. Put a lot of emphasis in the mechanical design of that, so it feels really great. But there's also a touch shutter key, which works similarly to a hardware capture key. So you can press it, hold your finger on the button. Or lock focus. And then you can take the pictures you would with a regular hardware key. And then the image flies away. And it's so professional. I took a shot of your branding. I know. Pointed it out. It's Nokia branding algorithm at work. I mean, I have to tell you, I won't be alone in being slightly disappointed this is running Symbian. But just purely down to the camera section, it's impressive stuff. Like the capture just now was so fluid, and your gallery application is good. And again, jumping between images is nice and quick. So this is really nice. And the images are just kind of amazing. I mean, these, by default, are what, five megapixel images? Yeah, absolutely. If you were photographing an area where you had a black and a white line, you'd expect pixels where you transition to be black and then white. Typically with cameras, you sort of go black and then they sort of gray, they sort of merge into one another. Whereas the pixels here are so pure that you get that perfect black and then white transition. It's really staggering detail. And this is 1080p video by default? 1080p, 30 frames per second by default. You get full field of view, which is, I haven't seen on any other camera smartphone. And you get four times lossless zoom. Plus we also have our Nokia rich recording technology, which allows you to record even as high as 140 decibels, which means that you can go to a concert and you can capture CD-like audio without any distortion whatsoever. And also, I wanted to ask you, the thing that Joe Harlow actually teased was that this isn't going to be the only thing that's going to feature PureView. There will be other devices. Can you tell us about those? I mean, you're not going to tell us the names and the product format. Sure, I can't reveal. No, obviously I can't reveal our product roadmap plans, but I can say we're actively working on bringing this technology to us. You'll see this technology in other ways in our portfolio at some point in the future. That's what I can say. Will we see the same sensor? I can't reveal any specific details. But I do feel like the sensor is a really huge part, literally, of the whole PureView technology. Let me put it this way to you. We wouldn't have spent five years developing this for a single one-off offering. That's a very fair point. And that's another question. You said you spent five years developing it. How does the N8 fit into this? Because this, the Nokia 808, is the most direct and obvious successor to the N8. And you can kind of tell because both have these big camera compartments which really make them stand out as camera phones, first and foremost. So how does the N8 fit into your five-year development cycle for this technology? I'm not sure where you're... What I'm saying is, was it like a halfway house when you were still developing? Oh, I see. Right. Okay. This is a technology which we wanted to be able to do. We knew it would take quite some time for all of the pieces of the puzzle to come into place. But we couldn't tell exactly when that was going to happen. The N8 development was a completely separate track. They weren't coupled in any way. So that was something we wanted to do as well. So this is just the way that it panned out. Okay. So there are essentially two different developing tracks, like you're saying. Yeah. But they were after the same goal, which was to get the best camera. Yeah. So normally how we would be developing products is that we would have specific targets in mind which vary according to the type of product and what's important to that product in terms of the insights that we have from the marketplace in terms of what would be important to that product. And that means that products are typically a sort of roadmap. Whereas for a large amount of the development time of five years, it was a technology development. Once it became clear enough to us that we were going to be able to bring it to the marketplace at a specific moment in time, at that point it then became something which moved into our sort of productization process that the company has. And that's how we're now able to have this conversation. And this device, the 808 PureView, when will it become a reality? When will we be able to get one? We expect to hit the market in Q2. Q2 as well. And then other products and devices somewhere in the future. Absolutely. Which I'm very excited about. Anything you can tell us? I mean, I assume you guys have kind of abandoned the idea of mechanical optical zooms like a pocket camera. But anything else you can tell us about what you're working on in your camera department? All I can say is that we're super excited about our plans for imaging. We're looking at a number of different areas that allow us to differentiate in the marketplace. I can't reveal obviously the details around those at the moment, but we'll be exploring a number of different directions in the area of imaging, utilizing the PureView technology in a number of different ways. So you'll see our sensor and processing and optical capabilities used in different ways in different parts of our portfolio. Okay. Well, when you do decide what you're going to do, when you do decide that you want to announce it, tell us first. We're very sure to come and talk to you, Vlad.
 Hey guys, we're Gladwell the Verge and I'm here with Damien Dinning, head of imaging
 at Nokia.
 Although you do have a more specific job title and I would like to let you perform to that.
 Thank you.
 It's one of those classic Nokia job titles.
 I'm lead program manager for imaging experience and smart devices.
 Head of imaging.
 Head of imaging otherwise.
 All your devices are smart devices, right?
 That's right.
 If you ask Stephen Eilert, he thinks even your feature phones are smart phones.
 Awesome, right?
 All our products are awesome.
 The reason we're here today and the reason we're meeting you is because of a truly awesome
 device, a truly awesome new technology we just introduced, which is the 808 POV.
 Tell us about this one.
 This is a development that many of us have been involved in for about five years.
 It started with a desire for us to do something radically different.
 In the early days, people were fixated with megapixels.
 In the early days, that was right to be fixated and increase the number of megapixels.
 That's how image quality improved dramatically.
 Once you got to five or six megapixels, the improvements weren't really coming through
 image quality.
 Yes, sure, improvements in processing technology and optics made further improvements to the
 image, but they weren't really coming from the increasing the number of megapixels.
 At that time, we also wanted to do optical zoom.
 It was a real challenge to get optical zoom into a device that fits in your pocket with
 the performance that we wanted to be able to provide.
 You actually thought about having optical zoom on smartphones?
 Yes.
 In fact, we had a number of concepts.
 Obviously, we had the N93 and 93i around 2006, 2007.
 We introduced those products.
 We really wanted to, around that time, the expectation level for imaging was also increasing.
 We thought if we're going to exceed that expectation, then we needed to do something radically different.
 We couldn't do that with conventional optical zoom designs in the space with the performance
 that we wanted to be able to realize.
 Were you considering, let's say, mechanical optical zooms and also, I guess, software
 solutions?
 Yes.
 In fact, I worked on a number of those projects, which were looking at different technologies.
 You don't happen to have any prototypes in your pocket or something like that?
 Not in my pocket, no.
 The massive Nokia with an optical zoom on it.
 No, I don't have anything like that.
 So we're stuck with the 808 PureView, but what have you done in terms of zoom with that
 one?
 Because you have done something.
 This is where we utilized the very high resolution 41 megapixel sensor with these revolutionary
 Carl Zeiss optics, which have 10 times higher precision in the manufacturing process and
 the tolerances, et cetera, than in the SLR lenses.
 That was the level of precision that we had to go to to be able to make the optics work
 with such a high precision, high resolution sensor.
 In addition to that, we also had to make a breakthrough in processing technology as well.
 When video, for example, we're handling over one billion pixels per second when you're
 recording video.
 And that's over 16 times more data throughput than most other camera smartphones in the
 marketplace today.
 That enabled us to get this, to utilize this, the algorithms that we've developed, capitalized
 on all that information in detail from the sensor and coming through the high resolution
 optics, combining the information from multiple pixels to create fewer but higher quality
 pixels, which fit with the modern way of handling and capturing images that we have today, particularly
 some sharing on social sites, et cetera.
 But even if you wanted to post a print, the five megapixel images that we capture have
 far more detail and quality than any other camera smartphone that you could possibly
 imagine.
 I saw a sample of some of those pictures and they were terrific.
 I was looking for fine grain noise.
 I mean, they're samples, you picked them yourselves, right?
 Sure.
 But they were really impressive images, so I fully agree with you.
 But this over sampling algorithm of yours is something very interesting because, like
 you say, it's 41 megapixel sensor in total.
 That's right.
 Which I still don't believe.
 Maybe I can show you something.
 Yeah.
 Okay.
 Something's coming out of the pocket.
 So this is the actual sensor that we're using.
 This is the middle one is a regular smartphone sensor and this is the sensor that we're using
 in the 808 PureView.
 Okay.
 And the one on the top left?
 This is a smaller five megapixel module.
 Wow.
 So what is the actual square footage of this?
 The optical format is one over 1.2 inches.
 Right.
 Yeah.
 And I've actually seen the whole camera module.
 You showed us the camera module yesterday.
 And it is about a centimeter cube, so it's a centimeter in height, width and depth.
 So it's a big old thing that you're using this camera.
 It is.
 It's been quite a challenge.
 Could we put up the phone itself as well?
 Sure.
 Alongside.
 The camera is right here behind those cloud eye optics like you're saying.
 That's right.
 And you do have a dedicated shutter key, which is something that's kind of coming, well,
 it's coming out of style these days.
 Some people like the hardware key.
 It's a two-stage key.
 Put a lot of emphasis in the mechanical design of that, so it feels really great.
 But there's also a touch shutter key, which works similarly to a hardware capture key.
 So you can press it, hold your finger on the button.
 Or lock focus.
 And then you can take the pictures you would with a regular hardware key.
 And then the image flies away.
 And it's so professional.
 I took a shot of your branding.
 I know.
 Pointed it out.
 It's Nokia branding algorithm at work.
 I mean, I have to tell you, I won't be alone in being slightly disappointed this is running
 Symbian.
 But just purely down to the camera section, it's impressive stuff.
 Like the capture just now was so fluid, and your gallery application is good.
 And again, jumping between images is nice and quick.
 So this is really nice.
 And the images are just kind of amazing.
 I mean, these, by default, are what, five megapixel images?
 Yeah, absolutely.
 If you were photographing an area where you had a black and a white line, you'd expect
 pixels where you transition to be black and then white.
 Typically with cameras, you sort of go black and then they sort of gray, they sort of merge
 into one another.
 Whereas the pixels here are so pure that you get that perfect black and then white transition.
 It's really staggering detail.
 And this is 1080p video by default?
 1080p, 30 frames per second by default.
 You get full field of view, which is, I haven't seen on any other camera smartphone.
 And you get four times lossless zoom.
 Plus we also have our Nokia rich recording technology, which allows you to record even
 as high as 140 decibels, which means that you can go to a concert and you can capture
 CD-like audio without any distortion whatsoever.
 And also, I wanted to ask you, the thing that Joe Harlow actually teased was that this isn't
 going to be the only thing that's going to feature PureView.
 There will be other devices.
 Can you tell us about those?
 I mean, you're not going to tell us the names and the product format.
 Sure, I can't reveal.
 No, obviously I can't reveal our product roadmap plans, but I can say we're actively working
 on bringing this technology to us.
 You'll see this technology in other ways in our portfolio at some point in the future.
 That's what I can say.
 Will we see the same sensor?
 I can't reveal any specific details.
 But I do feel like the sensor is a really huge part, literally, of the whole PureView
 technology.
 Let me put it this way to you.
 We wouldn't have spent five years developing this for a single one-off offering.
 That's a very fair point.
 And that's another question.
 You said you spent five years developing it.
 How does the N8 fit into this?
 Because this, the Nokia 808, is the most direct and obvious successor to the N8.
 And you can kind of tell because both have these big camera compartments which really
 make them stand out as camera phones, first and foremost.
 So how does the N8 fit into your five-year development cycle for this technology?
 I'm not sure where you're...
 What I'm saying is, was it like a halfway house when you were still developing?
 Oh, I see.
 Right.
 Okay.
 This is a technology which we wanted to be able to do.
 We knew it would take quite some time for all of the pieces of the puzzle to come into
 place.
 But we couldn't tell exactly when that was going to happen.
 The N8 development was a completely separate track.
 They weren't coupled in any way.
 So that was something we wanted to do as well.
 So this is just the way that it panned out.
 Okay.
 So there are essentially two different developing tracks, like you're saying.
 Yeah.
 But they were after the same goal, which was to get the best camera.
 Yeah.
 So normally how we would be developing products is that we would have specific targets in
 mind which vary according to the type of product and what's important to that product in terms
 of the insights that we have from the marketplace in terms of what would be important to that
 product.
 And that means that products are typically a sort of roadmap.
 Whereas for a large amount of the development time of five years, it was a technology development.
 Once it became clear enough to us that we were going to be able to bring it to the marketplace
 at a specific moment in time, at that point it then became something which moved into
 our sort of productization process that the company has.
 And that's how we're now able to have this conversation.
 And this device, the 808 PureView, when will it become a reality?
 When will we be able to get one?
 We expect to hit the market in Q2.
 Q2 as well.
 And then other products and devices somewhere in the future.
 Absolutely.
 Which I'm very excited about.
 Anything you can tell us?
 I mean, I assume you guys have kind of abandoned the idea of mechanical optical zooms like
 a pocket camera.
 But anything else you can tell us about what you're working on in your camera department?
 All I can say is that we're super excited about our plans for imaging.
 We're looking at a number of different areas that allow us to differentiate in the marketplace.
 I can't reveal obviously the details around those at the moment, but we'll be exploring
 a number of different directions in the area of imaging, utilizing the PureView technology
 in a number of different ways.
 So you'll see our sensor and processing and optical capabilities used in different ways
 in different parts of our portfolio.
 Okay.
 Well, when you do decide what you're going to do, when you do decide that you want to
 announce it, tell us first.
 We're very sure to come and talk to you, Vlad.