 Hey, and welcome to the Vergecast for the week of October 1st, 2012. I'm Josh Tupolsky. I'm Paul Miller. I'm Neil Ipatel. We're doing some really weird curl stuff here. I like it. Yeah, screw it. You like that? Take that, America. There's your... Debate that. I don't know. Anyhow, this is the Vergecast where we discuss the weekend, technology culture, culture, culture, art culture, science culture, and feelings. Feeling culture. Touch culture. Touching culture. Touch culture. I don't know what that means. Touch culture. That sounds like the beginning of a Wall Street Journal investigative series on how touch screen fans are changing our lives. Touch culture. Touch culture. I was looking at... Do you remember the touch diamond? These days, people want to touch everything, not just their phone screens. Sometimes they touch each other. No, no. I hear this story constantly of the children. They're trying to swipe on a TV. They're trying to swipe on a magazine. The nation of moronic children walking around trying to swipe everything. No offense. News flash. Kids are stupid. Your kid's not impressive. Your kid is uneducated. Your kid doesn't know that things are different. He was amazing. He was trying to swipe on the TV. It's like, so the TV should be a giant touch screen? Is that what you're telling me? Kids try to do all kinds of crazy shit. I saw a kid try to put a screwdriver into a socket. Was that cool? Should we invent things where you can do that? Do you want a story of my youth? Yes. My father is an emergency room doctor. When I was a child and he caught me playing with the outlet, he told my mom that it would be fine. He was like, just let him do it. He'll get hurt and they'll learn not to do it anymore. And then he goes wrong. I'm right here. He was confident he could revive my list. That's like if he does go into cardiac arrest. Yeah. He's like, I'll fix it. I have a fairly good recovery rate. He's like, don't worry. I got this. Let him get shocked. He's like, listen, worst case scenario, we can have another child. I got shocked by our like, what should we call it? I don't know. Washers and dryers. The bigger plug. The plug for washers and dryers. Oh, the 220. That's bad. How did you get shocked by that? I don't know. Screwdriver? No, I don't really remember. Piece of foil in there? I don't know. By the way, if you're a child listening at home right now, let me give you a few ideas. Ice pick, screwdriver, maybe a thing you take a gum wrapper and fold it in half and stick it in there. A clothes hanger? That would be good. I mean, you might have done uncurl it a little bit or use the edge of it. What else could you stick in there? Maybe if you find a metal pen, a metal pen, you really jam it in there or just, or just swipe it. Yeah. Just try to swipe across it. This is like, no, this is the change in generations. Our generation walked around with metal pens finding outlets. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like in our generation, our parents were like, oh, so cute. He was trying to, he was looking for the on switch on the book. Like no one would think that was cute. They'd be like, this kid is stupid. Like he needs to learn that the book is a book and the TV is a TV, you know? Like anyhow. So the verge cast is about, the verge cast is about the week in news. What happened this week? So there was like a lot of news, but all of it felt kind of low key. It was low. It was a slow burn. But a bunch of stuff talk about actually, kind of the biggest news in the industry is that T-Mobile and Metro PCS and Sprint are all, they're all competing to buy each other basically. Well, they can't all buy each other. Metro PCS ain't buying no one. So it started out with an announcement. By the way, that's a double negative. I think it means they are buying someone. Ain't buying no one. Are buying someone. Yeah. Is buying someone. Ain't buying no one. They're not buying anyone. They're not buying no one. That means they are buying someone. Yeah. That's right. I hear what you're saying. I just blow your mind. Paul's brain is going to drop out of the front of his head. You started a couple days ago with Metro PCS and Deutsche Telekom agreeing that they would combine assets. And then today it's Sprint spinning up saying, no, no, hold on. We want to buy Metro PCS. What does Metro PCS have that- They have Spectrum and- I know they have vaguely racist commercials. That's the thing I know most about- Not a really bad logo. About Metro PCS is that they have Indian guys for something in their commercials. They're like- The StrikeV is slightly racist. They're the biggest player in the prepaid game. And so they kind of callously target the lower end of the market. Whose Spectrum do they own? Their own? They have their own. What is it? What is it? GSM? CDMA? CDMA plus LTE. They have LTE. They have LTE. That'd be great for Sprint. Their own LTE. For T-Mobile- No, it's great for T-Mobile. So this is the thing. T-Mobile has no LTE. Right. So T-Mobile has turned into basically a low cost. They're competing in the prepaid market against Metro PCS now because they can't really compete against- I feel so bad when I see T-Mobile commercials. Yeah, it's like you lost. Like you thought- And everybody got the iPhone and they're like, uh, hey, you want the iPhone? And no, I mean they literally are like- Is this hot? Yeah, be careful. What is this? What kind of tea is this? Caffeine-free lemon ginger. Oh, hello. Very fancy. I don't want you to be up all night. Michael takes care of Josh. Because you know me, this is going to put me right to bed. No, so T-Mobile kind of lost. I mean, they had AT&T on the hook and they thought they were going to get swept off their feet and then they got left. You call this hot tea? And I would say it's room temperature. Room temperature tea. Tap it. It's tap it. That definitely sounds- It's fine. It's very, very not hot. There's a band I was thinking of. Go on. Go on. So they're stuck. They need the Spectrum. They can't buy anymore. The best option is, well, T-Mobile's best option is we're in the prepaid low end game. We'll just merge with Metro PCS, which has LTE in his dominant low end game. They have Spectrum for the whole country? I didn't know they had LTE Spectrum. They're around. Yeah, no, they do LTE. How do they get all- They've got a variety of crappy LTE. They don't like borrow off of Verizon or AT&T? They do here and there. They're not a glorified NPM now. Yeah, no, they have their own Spectrum. They're more regional. I really underestimated Metro PCS this whole time. They're the hello, hello, hello, right? Yeah. So it's good for this. It makes sense with two of them. That's how I identify- I mean, this is Sprint saying we're going to try to kill. I mean, Sprint stepping in the mix is we're going to try to kill T-Mobile. If Sprint were to capture Metro PCS, how much stronger of a carrier would it make them? So it would make them dominant on the slow end because they run Boost and they run Virgin. So this whole prepaid market, this is where they're all competing. But they wouldn't be able to compete- I mean, this is what kind of is crazy about this. They wouldn't be able to compete with Verizon in the sense of being the top tier. Why don't they all team up? Well, it's just interesting that this is where- Here's an idea. This is where there's the most action. And you've actually talked about this a lot, this idea that there's these MVNOs and these prepaid carriers like Simple Mobile that are now rising up and providing real price competition. I believe the MVNO has come back with a vengeance. I see these ads everywhere on the train, just everywhere. For ridiculously- Is that the one that Simple Mobile, is that the one we were talking about? Yeah. Now, Simple Mobile and maybe somebody in our... I don't know if anybody actually uses it, but I was told, and I was actually the sort of man I wanted to investigate. I was told that Simple Mobile does GSM, like 4G, GSM service, and equivalent to AT&T. And they roam across both of the networks. They roam on T-Mobile and AT&T apparently, and this is like you buy a Galaxy Nexus for 350, you buy one of these Sims and they have like $50 unlimited everything, but it caps you at two gig or something. Can you tether? Yeah, you can tether. Yeah, because you can buy a... Because you're just paying for the service. And they roam on T-Mobile and they can cross over to AT&T. This is the dream. That's the dream. I just described the dream. Where you buy an unlocked phone. You buy a phone, you buy your service and you're good to go. And you want to change your phone or your service like you're not contracted by some lame company to be stuck with their stuff or stuck with your phone or whatever. And this is happening. This is real. But I don't think they are... They're not big enough yet. No, definitely not big enough. They need to be big. But so what I'm saying is it's like all these guys know they can't compete against AT&T and Verizon at the top end of the market. Sprint keeps trying. So all the action right now is this bottom tier prepaid low end. It's kind of like the iPhone unlocked iPhone 4S without LTE is like... That's what T-Mobile is like. Buy an iPhone, unlock it and use it on network because it's better. Yeah, but does it have the bands to do T-Mobile 3G? Just the 3G, not the enhanced... Right. Right. It'll do Edge and some... That's not going to help me. Yeah. That doesn't help me at all. No, nobody wants that. Also, I don't want the old phone. Yeah. I want the new phone. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, if this rumor, you know, there are all these rumors... Is Metro PCS getting the iPhone? There are some people... I don't know if Metro is getting it. Virgin Mobile has the iPhone. There's a lot of prepaid carriers getting the iPhone. Yeah, Virgin Mobile has an unlocked... Not unlocked, a contract free full priced iPhone. So it's 650 or whatever? Yeah, whatever it is, 500, 600 bucks. But... Yeah, Metro doesn't have the iPhone. But... What's the catch with these? I feel like I used to know some of the downsides of MVNOs, but they just sound like they all just died and they use the same... Well, Virgin and Boost didn't die, obviously. Virgin and Boost are back from the dead, but they never died. They never died. But that's what I'm saying. There was like a Christmas where everybody came out with all the MVNOs, and they had these bizarre MVNO commercials. Didn't MTV have one? Yep. And there was... What was that? Oh, the Helio... Oh, God. Helio. That was a thing. It was a whole thing. They had their phones, they had a service. And that was owned by SK Mobile, South Korean Mobile. What was it? Chris Mahanaka, Kwanzaa, whatever. That was the ad for an MVNO. Man, there was an MVNO heyday, but they're... The heyday was like six months. Yeah. Right. And all that. So Virgin and Boost got absorbed into Sprint as their low-cost prepaid offers. Boost is the only one that I know from back in the day that has stayed around. Boost kind of hung in there. What was the other one? It was very urban-flavored. They were going for the urban market unabashedly. Again, bordering... Like flair. Bordering on racist. It was... Jammed up. It's not Boost. Amped. Amped. Amped. Amped. I think Amped got rolled into Boost. It is Amped. It makes sense. Is Boost the one with the very disturbing commercial with the two pigs eating another pig? I don't know. You know what I'm talking about? I know what you're talking about. Man, this... What do the readers say? It'd be a no. It's commercials. They're just like... They're desperate. They're desperate. It's like the CW with this ad they had in Entertainment Weekly, which by the way, I want to make an appeal to the world. I'd really like to get one of these Entertainment Weeklys with the cell phone in it. So if you know where I can get one or you have one and you want to let it go for a reasonable price or even unreasonable... There's a cell phone in it. You don't know about this. No. They did a thousand copies of Entertainment Weekly with a CW ad that has a live Twitter feed in the ad, it looks like an embedded screen. But Lance Ulanoff and Christina Warren at Mashable opened up the magazine and it is a full-size Android smartphone with a lithium ion battery and a QWERTY keyboard inside without the casing and a 3G card. Just sitting in there getting a live... And it's Android. You can get to the Android part of the phone. That's awesome. Yeah. Anyhow, I want one very badly. I want one to take it apart to have the phone. I don't know why. No, you want it to be from Entertainment Weekly. As I'm reading the Tina Fey interview, I want to... I got that magazine at home and I was like, oh man. I saw the article and I was like, oh my God, this is so exciting. And then it was nothing. It was the limited edition. Are any of the iPad magazines have a... Because you know that would be a great place. No, because they're all PS. They have a digital magazine with a phone... An interactive phone inside of the digital magazine. I was thinking that you would open it up and there would be a physical phone somehow in the middle of the iPad. That has the digital magazine on it? No, it's just like a rotary phone. That's how they even add it into the... You pull it and you're like, you plug it into the wall. Enjoy this article. Call a friend about it. 1-800-great article. 1-800-hot arctic. Arty. Hot arty. 1-800-hot arty. That's a whole different thing, man. I like that. I like hot arty. It's one of my favorite... Hot arty. Yeah. That's a thing, right? Hot article. Okay, anyhow. Anyhow, what were we... We were talking about some hot arty. We were talking about some hot arty. One way or another T-Mobile is going away. I mean, that's kind of the end result of... What if their desperate to go away? What if their desperate to go away? What if they become... Do you think they'll become Metro T-Mobile or something? No, I don't think... I think they'll pick one way. T-Mobile, PCS. T-Mobile, PCS. Honestly, I think... I think they'll become Metro T-Mobile. I think they'll become Metro T-Mobile. T-Mobile, PCS. Honestly, I think... I think the way that telecom wants to just be out of the United States. They desperately... I don't think they want anything to do with the market anymore. Much like the World War II retreat of the Germans. Yes. From the Russian... From the United States. From the Russian battle... From the Russian battle front. Yeah. And what is that? Homeland? Is that what it's called? The fatherland. No, no. The show on Showtime? Where we get invaded by another country. Oh, Homefront. Homefront. Is that what it's called? Is that Red Dawn? Red Dawn. Red Dawn. You're talking about the game. There is a game that's like the whole... It's Red Dawn, but the Koreans instead of the Russians. And you actually fight... Very disappointing game, by the way. But the new Red Dawn movie is Japanese now, right? Or Chinese? Or some Asian? It's the Koreans. Some Asian? The Koreans are the new cool enemy. Which Koreans? North... What do you mean, which Koreans? It's guys from Samsung. They're like throwing old Galaxy phones at people. Like quickly manufacture more crap. Like what? They're like... The North Koreans. The bad Koreans. The bad Koreans. I mean the bad. I mean bad. If you live in North Korea and you're watching this first off, congratulations. You must be very well off and very lucky. If we can say anything to the North Korean audience right now. If we can say, hey, hey, hey. Congratulations. But anyhow, look, you know what? They're just people. But some people, some of those people are bad. Just mal... And the rest of them are malnourished. No, God. Well, they are malnourished. Can we move on? I mean, North Korea is a nightmare. It's true. No, the stats, which is that after the split, the South Koreans are on average taller. I mean, people are being abused by a ruthless dictator in North Korea. They're part of the... I'm trying to defend North Korea. They're part of the axis of evil. How is that defending North Korea? Axis of evil. In which world is pointing out? Axis of evil. There's an axis somewhere. And the part of the axis is evil. No, the whole axis is evil. The part of it is North Korea. The terrifying fascist state of North Korea. It's not a state, it's a country. Half a country. If you want to get tactical. Anyhow. How is it half a country? Well, there's North and South. They're not the same country. Well, but you know, they're all Korea. Yeah. North and South Carolina are half. North and South Dakota. Are they not both of the Dakota? Of the Dakotas? They are. They're referred to as the Dakotas. Well, but they're Dakota in nature. Dakota in nature. Dakota-rific. They're Dakota-ified. Dakota-ian. Dakota-ian in nature. Both. I will. Undeniable. Anyhow. Now, this is a really good question. I'm going to be honest. I'm going to say this. I'm going to say this. The Dakota in nature, both undeniable. Anyhow. So what else happened with gadgets this week? Metro PCS. I feel like if we keep on coming back to Metro PCS and T-Mobile, we'll keep on going other cool ways. Because we don't want to talk about it so badly. I just want to apologize if we've been talking over each other. I know that you don't like that. We're all of the Dakotas here. We're Dakota-ian in nature. All right. Just kidding. Let's keep going. Well, you review things. By the way, I've been to North Dakota. I've been to South. My dad is born in North Dakota. Well, I can't talk to you. I can't talk to you. Oh. You typical Southern Dakotians. Dekotites. I don't know. Dekoites. Dekoite. I don't know. I just let it go. If you're watching this from one of the Dakotas right now. Good job. First of all, congratulations. If you're watching this from North Dakota, first off, you must be very worried about the fact that you're not going to be able to get a TV. You're doing very well to do. Congratulations. You got a TV. Wow. Remember I was making a joke about North Korea? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same joke. Yeah. Yeah, but now it sounds amazing. Now it hit home. Yeah. I'm sorry, North Dakota. I'm sure you have a TV. My dad's from North Dakota. Well, I rest my case. Really? Yeah. He used to tell this story about how they had a cat and they didn't... They didn't buy... It was the biggest news in all of North Dakota. A cat in North Dakota. Freaking. They wouldn't buy cat litter, so he'd have to go out in the winter with a shovel and pick up the frozen ground to get dirt for cat litter. That sounds like a story about cheapness, not really a story about North Dakota. Well, but it was cold, so the ground was hard. And that's a lesson to be learned about North Dakota. Cold, hard ground. Kind of like North Korea. Yeah. Anyhow- Cats. In vain. North Dakotas. What's our next topic, Neil? I don't even know how to... You reviewed the Kindle Paperwhite. Paperwhite. What are your favorite books about both the Dakotas and Korea available on the Kindle Paperwhite? I'll tell you what I did a lot of during my Paperwhite review was read up on North Korea. Yeah. And North Dakota. No, I had this very... I was reading your review. I have very similar... I got mine yesterday. Oh, yeah, you got it. Two days ago. How do you feel? I like it, but it was funny. Did you have that moment? I was like, I want to read a bunch of stuff. Oh, yeah. I had that moment. I had a moment, which I mentioned at the end of my review, which is like I was in bed reading and I was like, yeah, this might be the way I read for the rest of my life. Yeah. And that could be my... I'm going to keep buying books, but when I read, I feel like this is how I'm going to do it. And then it kind of passed because I was like, wow, that's a little ridiculous. There it is. There it is right there. Do you have one of those clip-on Bendy lights? Only losers have those. Only losers. Huge losers. I mean, Becky literally- I definitely bought one of those the first month I left the internet. I rest my case. Becky bought me one to taunt me. I rest my case? Really? Straight up. She's like, you have to use this now because you can't have the light on anymore. I was like, I'm not using it. She's like, you're going to use it. It was literally like a threat. The paperwhite solve all that? Yeah, it's great. Well, the paperwhite, it's got its own light. You understand how it works. Yeah, yeah. I saw it at the office. I should have brought it in. I'll say this though. As far as e-readers go, in my opinion, I'm just recapping the review now. In my opinion, this is the best e-reader on the market. Oh, no question. Yeah. Real talk. I just think that the software is really pretty impressive. The screen looks great. It's higher resolution than previous models. It has access to Amazon's library, which is massive. I mean, in my opinion, the best library for content. It just feels good. It's a good design. It's got everything going for it. It just feels- Let me ask you this question. Do you actually have the light on all the time? Because I just turned mine off during the day. No. Yeah, you don't keep it on all the time. No, but they're all deep into, you're going to leave this on all the time. Don't worry about it. But they did give you settings, so you can do whatever you want. Yeah, but you're talking about maybe the majority of people will leave it on all the time. I mean, Amazon said during the event, Jeff Bezos was like, people are just going to leave this on all the time. What I hope they're doing is tracking what everybody's doing, and then they'll have a specific number of the average percentage of the light during different times of the day that people are using- You hope they're tracking what everybody's doing. Yes. Instead of just installing an ambient light sensor. So your goal to automatically adjust the light is- No, I'm not saying- Constant surveillance. I don't want them to- As opposed to just knowing how bright it is. No, I'm not saying- Big brother is watching. To use that data to automatically adjust the light. I'm just saying use that data and then make a cool chart that I can look at. You want an infographic of how often the light is on and at what level. At what level over the course of the day on average. Well, I would venture to guess that at nighttime the light level is going to be higher. And then in the daytime it'll be lower. But exactly how high? Who cares? I care. I'm just saying, so they changed the- I have the old $79 Kindle, which I really like. And they changed the display. I think they changed the surface of the display. It's still matte and it has kind of a rough finish. I don't leave fingerprints on it because it's a touch display. But it has more glare. It's very strange to me. It does have a little bit more- It's shinier. But it's not glaring. But not like this. It's shinier, but not like so much that you really, maybe you notice it a lot. This is a matte screen. Not really. This is the matte. It is matte, but it's not as shiny as this. Right. It's not that. No, it's like a rough finish. Actually, this is matte. Sorry, but to back up, I agree that this is a matte screen. There's no question there. But not as reflective as this matte screen. This is relatively reflective. I can see a perfect reflection of the keyboard in the side here. And so it's not like that. But it is a little bit more reflective, you're right. But you were saying. Yeah. Go on. It's an interesting change. And also, they got rid of the buttons. Yeah. And I really like the page turn button. I hate buttons. Really? So you're happy with it? I'm like Jobs. The fewer buttons, the better. You got to swipe. Swipe or tap. Swipe or tap. I picked one up at the office. It took me a long time. I forgot that they put the power button on the edge. I literally just couldn't figure out how to turn it on for a while. I actually didn't mention this, but the power button is the most annoying part. Because I've never seen a tutorial video on this, all of the usages were completely... Like I was tapping around trying to do anything with it. Oh, you got to tap in the middle to get the menu up and stuff like that. All of that is just the top. They have a tutorial when you first booted it. Right. Yeah. I'm just saying, it's not totally obvious. When you hand it to your stupid kid, they might take a little time. No, the kid will be like this and then it'll work. So it'll be fine. Here's the interesting thing about the PaperWet. I've had it for two or three days now. And my use of the Nexus 7 has plummeted. See that's interesting because- My use of the iPad has gone back up. I went right back to the... After I was done testing, as much as I like it, I'm used to reading on the Nexus 7 now. And I have to say, I long for the crispness and the evenness and the cleanness of the Nexus 7 display. Or the iPad display. But I read with the Nexus 7 because it's book-sized. Whereas the iPad is gigantic. Yeah. I picked up the iPad the other day to read and I was like, why is this so gigantic? The iPad, it doesn't matter unless the lights are entirely off. If there's any light anywhere within the- It's very reflective. It just glares at you. I mean, I have to say, I usually read in bed before I go to sleep and I have a light next to the bed. I have a table lamp. And I leave that on. And it's not a problem with the Nexus 7 at least, that light is not an issue. Certainly it's shinier. It's shiny. It's a glossy display. Not as high gloss as the iPad though, in my opinion. I think there's just less of it. That's an interesting theory. I mean, it's possible. I think it's Gorilla Glass. I don't think it is. What? On the Nexus 7? I don't think it's Gorilla Glass, is it? I think it is. Is it advertised as Gorilla Glass? I'm just pretty sure. Gorilla Glass is like, it's sneaky now. They just put it on everything. So basically, you like that wine, you drink it out of a Gorilla Glass. Yeah, it's Gorilla Glass. Is it? Wait, no, update says Gizmodo. Gizmodo got it wrong and then updated. What did they say? I'm sure many people got it wrong. They just have an update. It's not Gorilla Glass. Yeah, update. Actually, there's no Gorilla Glass on the Nexus 7. There's just scratch resistant glass. Yeah. It sounds like a Google PR reach out. So we're like close to... Close to the end of this Vergecast. Perfect. So we're done. Let's get out of here. Screens. I just feel like this has been going on forever and the paperwhite is just better, but it's still like... I mean, it's... Here's the interesting thing about the paperwhite. You still need a tablet and a Kindle. I remember when the last set of Kindles came out, there was like this endless discussion that we all had. Like, am I going to get the $70 one? Am I going to get the Touch one? Should I update at all? What's the point of this? Our entire staff ordered paperwhites. There was no question whether they're going to do it. Yeah, but those people are normal. No, but like it was... They can't be used as an example of normalcy. But that rarely happens. It rarely happens. Everybody got a Nexus 7. Everybody got a Nexus 7. Yeah, but that was an equally, I think, momentous product for that category. Like that was... The Nexus 7 is the best Android tablet. I think this is the best reader. It's very strange to even see our staff just chase after a product like this and be so excited that they're getting your product to shipping notices. I mean, Laura does keep updating me on her shipping status. Yeah, and like, she's tweeting about it last night. She's very upset that she doesn't have hers yet. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's one of those things where this is... It's pretty clear that this is an expression of an e-reader, like as a category that is like it's hit a pinnacle and it's going to iterate and iterate and maybe there'll be another big jump. But the last ones, the last set of Kindles, they all iterated to this like, this is what they look like. This is what the screens are like. And then this is the big jump. And I feel like there's something too about a gadget that you want and that you'll use that is not like the do everything gadget. I think that there's like, it's like when I see like a really nice new camera, like some of the like as it had been introduced recently, I'm like, yeah, I really want that. And what I... Even though it doesn't have 3G, you still want it. Yeah. And what I'll get... And I know what I want that for is just a separate thing. It's a single use product. And you know, like it's not... I see that fitting into my life in a way that like another tablet or another phone can't or won't because it's just like an iterative thing where like, oh, your phone's like a little bit better than the last one, but like it's exactly the same in every other way. So I think with an e-reader, when there's like an actual, you're like, oh cool, it's backlit. I mean, Barnes and Noble got to this first, but I don't think they did as good a job. But when you see this and you're like, oh yeah, this makes sense. I need this. I want it. I can use this in my life. And there isn't really another thing that will do what this does. Like I can take it in direct sunlight. I can take it at night and read it in bed in the dark. The battery lasts forever. It plugs into Amazon's, you know, all my books are already there. I use Amazon for both of my purchases. You know what I find actually really interesting, and I think this is really highlighted by the new Kindle Flyers. I don't mind the ads on this thing at all. Although I will say it's kind of hilarious that it will only show me ads for AT&T, like it's taunting me. Yeah. They're really different than... You're not interacting with this device as much as you interact with a tablet. It's just a totally different experience. But you know, I kind of realized yesterday, I was looking at it. It's like, even when it's kind of like lit up and it's just sitting there and it's like has an ad and like it's fading away. It's like, I'm so used to print stuff in my house that has ads on it. And this display looks mostly like print. So it's like that fits into a box that I know about. With the Kindle Fire, it's like, baaah, like I'm looking at a computer screen. It's also that it's supposed to be a thing that a tablet is like, you could do your email here, you're browsing the web and you're talking to people on Twitter and you know, it's a computer and you kind of don't want to add when you're like doing stuff on your computer. But like, it's not like showing you, you're not like, you know, chapter three of a George RR Martin book. It's like, have you seen the new? You know, it's like, you're not like in the middle of a book getting an ad. You know what's weird is that, so I've been watching a little bit of TV and DVRing with my computer. DVRing on your computer? That sounds like an internet situation. How does that sound like an ad? It's like, it's recorded to a hard drive off of a digital TV channel. Digital. And you can, you can skip, you can skip 30 seconds ahead at a time and so you can pass over commercials, which is awesome. And like, I'm so used to the, on the web, you cannot, there's so many unskippable ads. There's just so many things that like, they like, like, no, you're not allowed to skip this. You can tab over to something else while you wait, but you cannot skip this. Well, they don't have the, I mean, they don't have the people who, I mean, the web doesn't get to have the people who don't skip because they either aren't DVRing it or don't care. Well, the offline equivalent is like, you're trapped. DVDs with like unskippable trailers and all the, all the insane piracy warnings that are completely unskippable and they sit there for like 15 to 30 seconds. That just makes you want to pirate more. Really, really, really. You know what I'm thinking about while watching this unskippable pirate message? I want to hurt you. Yeah. How can I get to you? At an FBI. I want to hurt you FBI. Yeah. Cop cars waiting for me downstairs. I want to hurt the FBI bad. I want to hit it where it hurts. It's just funny cause it's like, why is it the FBI? That's my domestic terrorist impersonation. I'm going to get those guys where it hurts. Wherever that is. I don't know. I'm going to get them in North Dakota probably. I'm going to get them in North Dakota. So this leads right into the next thing. It does? Absolutely. Well, not that. So we're having this conversation about readers and you went back to your Nexus 7. For me, it's like, I'm not using it as much. You're done. You hate the Nexus 7. But rumors endlessly this week and last. Rumors a swirling. Of the iPad mini. iPad miniature. Walshe Journal said it went into production this week. Seven point how big? No, it's bigger than that. This is weird. It's like 7.85 or something. I said seven point how big? I wasn't saying seven point something. Could be seven point. Yeah. Well, that's the 11. Seven point eleven. Well, that's the rumor. What is seven point eight? Seven point eight five. Same as these are the rumors. So this has been rumored for since the Nexus 7 was introduced. Since I left the internet. Literally. No, no, no. It's been rumored literally since the day, since the day that Google is going to announce the day before Google is going to announce their seven inch. It's like Cupertino started their photocopiers. Yeah. I'm going to let this. Nice. I'm going to let that just hang in the air. So I know I think they probably had it in the works before that. Yeah, probably. But they is probably convenient to tell everybody about it. So the rumors are it's going to be. Well, the rumors are seven point eight five. Yeah. Same resolution as the iPad two. Which makes sense. Perfect. 68. So you assume things will just be scaled down. Yeah, it'll just be iPad apps with like slightly closer together. Right. And, you know, there are some other rumors if they're having problems making it with supply. I mean, like, there's just rumors. There's always a rumor that they're having trouble with supply chains now. Yeah. Which is funny because usually the rumors are the supply chains is like, here's here's a picture of the product. Here's a rumor. So we've seen a few of the pictures of the supply chain. Give it to them. We've seen. We've seen like, I mean, essentially it's, I mean, based on whatever kind of weird mockups we've seen, which, you know, now we've learned are most likely true. So here's my question about this. And I believe this is true. Yes. Well, I'm assuming we'll see it very soon. Yes. What is this event going to be like? I mean, like, we already we've come off a month in which we've been talking about the iPhone five saying they didn't have a compelling software story for the iPhone five. Yeah. And they've been completely dinged on maps like left and right. Yeah. To the point where they've had to apologize about it. Have we talked about the apology? Maybe they'll come out with a new. We haven't talked about the apology. They apologized? Yeah. Tim Cook issued an apology for mentioning that. They didn't publish the apology in the Wall Street Journal? I missed a couple of issues. Okay. Yeah. Tim Cook had to apologize. Hold on. Let's not get derailed. Let's finish your point. Anyway, but so they're in this. Let's not get derailed. That would be unlike us. Our North Dakota viewers won't stand for it. Our North Korean viewers won't stand for it. All one of them. So many jokes there. No, I mean, they're just in this place. They're as embattled as Apple can be. Yeah. Right? It's not very embattled. They're just in a moment of criticism. Yeah. Yeah. Prey. Yeah. It's prey. I don't think we're quite at prey. We're not there. I don't think we're there. They're still selling a lot of phones. Great. Great wired issue. What do you stand on stage and say when you have an iPad that presumably runs the same software? Yeah, but the maps don't matter on an iPad. The iPad is the smallest. Who's going navigating with their iPad? No, no, I'm not saying that. The same jerks who are taking photos with it. If you're already in a place where it's like, okay, well, for this moment, for this period in time, the bloom's off the rose. Why couldn't they make a weather app for the iPad? Why didn't they just make a bigger weather app? Or a widget. Would it have taken that many resources? Did iOS 6 add- They have a weather widget. No. Add anything to the iPad? They do have a weather widget, I think. Don't they? Do they not? They send a notification. Wait, but do they have it on the iPad? Can someone tell me? I don't remember. Can you use Siri on the iPad yet? These people will tell me. Yeah, you can. Okay. Because before it was just voice notification. iPad 3. iPad 3. New iPad. Yep. So the event is going to look like Apple's going to say- Wait, is the event been announced? No, but I'm guessing if there is an event, this is what it looks. You're asking what it looks like. No weather widget on the iPad. No weather widget. Well, that's stupid and dumb. So I think it'll look something like this. Tim Cook comes out to thunderous applause. And he's like spikes a small iPad and walks out on stage. He says, it's good to see you again. It's been a long time. Makes a joke about how they just had an event. Everybody gafas. He says, it's been a crazy month and a half for us. We released, we brought out the new version of iOS X. Our customers love it. Yeah, 100 million. Over 80% of our customers have already updated and they are loving it. 100 million people. 100 million. Well, they'll be over that probably, but 125 million people and counting. How about Android? They're still trying to get the gingerbread up there or whatever. He won't make a joke about it. He'll say, we released a new iPhone, our most successful iPhone ever. Our biggest first weekend sales in the history of the iPhone and counting. To date we've sold, he'll give a number that's insane. And we're in five countries. 20 million. We're in 28 countries now. We've sold 25 million phones in the span of, how many have they sold do you think so far? We know they sold how many in the first week? 5 million? Yeah. So let's say they've been selling, I don't know, probably about 15, 20 at this point. There'll be like 25. Sure. 25 million iPhone 5s. That's a lot. That's like a quarter. And we've continued selling the iPhone 4s at a great price, customers love it. Has the full iOS 6 up to any high. You're dancing, but you're seeing here. No, no, no. Well, they don't need to say it. He'll be like, where's the boom now, Neelai? They don't need to say that. Our customers just love this stuff. Developers have- The best iPod Nano ever. Developers have just eaten up the new software. They love the new screen size. They're doing amazing things to show off a few great apps, some music apps. I want a picture where it's like with the 4s, you can only see like most of your baby. They've done that picture. But with the iPhone 5, you can see- See all of the baby. The entire baby's body. They'll definitely show pictures from the launch day of the iPhone where people running out of the store with cheering and clapping and whatever. And they'll say, Andy, we have something great, new for you today. Something we've never done before. And then they'll talk about the company's level of books and reading and magazines and how they wanted to create it. They thought, how could they create the most perfect experience for reading? Does he have to engage- The iPad is great for doing lots of different things. The full size iPad is great for doing lots of different things. But when you're in bed or when you're on a train or when you're out, you want something that's a little bit, you can slip into a small bag, whatever. And then you know, people will cheer. There'll be a hands-on. And a week later, there'll be reviews of it. A couple questions. It's going to be good. Yeah. One- Presumably. The man's might not be that good on it. Is he going to pitch it as something that you should get in addition to your iPad and iPhone? This is a tough question. I don't think they have to say how you'll buy it. They don't have to tell you how to buy it. They just need to tell you what the price is. With the iPad- And let you approach the cash register. When the iPad came out, though, they were very careful to say where that belonged. Well, they said to make a case for it. I don't think you have to make a case for an iPad. I think you can assume that if someone will pay $300 for an iPod touch, there's another person next to them who will pay $300 for a smaller iPad. I think that's where you are. By the way, he may mention maps. I think they can do something. I think they can do something and say, you know, we had our biggest iPhone launch ever. You know, iOS takes, they'll say, you know, it wasn't perfect. We had some issues with maps, but our team is, they'll show a room full of guys working on, you know, cartographers working on- Is he going to make the like, you all got here today somehow joke? Yeah, probably something like that. My pastor made that joke the other day. I used it to navigate to the, you're my buena today. Yeah. Anyhow, whatever. Wait, and so my other question is, is he going to engage the Steve Jobs quote about a seven-inch screen? Not at all. Are you kidding me? Nobody remembers that. That's ancient history. That's like two years ago, but is he going to say like, we solved the problem on a seven-inch? No, they don't have to say they solved anything. No, what they will say with guaranteed, what they'll say is here's the Kindle Fire. Here's an XS7. They run big smartphone apps. We want to bring the power of the iPad to a smaller thing. And our great iPad apps. I think they'll also make mention of the fact that this is not just the way they kind of talked about the four inch screen and they have ads for it about the thumb, which are bullshit. You know what I mean? Because like the thumb thing is like, well, some people's thumbs do that, but some people's don't. What are the thumbs do? They're there. It's like they're showing the thumb goes here and it goes here. And then they show like the phone, this phone, they're like, it goes here and it goes here. Like they're showing how it still fits your thumb. Basically. Apple made ads. Yep. Yes. For thumb. Yes. Yep. Voiced by Jeff Daniels. No way. Yes. Okay. But I think that what they'll say is, you know, there's other people in this market. See Jeff Daniels in Looper? Just stop talking about Looper. I haven't seen it. Please stop ruining it. Stop spoiling it. It's a movie. Stop spoiling it with actors. When you get to the end of the movie. Shut up. Stop. Start over. And then you kill yourself. I do think they'll say, you know, everyone's trying to make a seven inch. Yeah. They think seven inch is the right size. But we've done some research. Oh God. We've done some research and you know what we've discovered? Seven inch is not the right size. Yeah. But you know what it is? It's 7.8. 7.8. 5. 3. 3. That's the exact screen size you need to be able to do everything you can do on a full size iPad right in the palm of your hand. And then a picture of a baby. You're like shut up and take my money right now. Yeah. I just can't. Like I'm trying to imagine what like the Johnny Ive design video is. Like, you know, like what we wanted to do was figure it out. Like I'm just trying to imagine. How could we take all of the pal of the iPad and put it into a small iPad? That's like a parody. Just saying that makes it a parody. Would you get an iPad 7? Of course. You'll buy one. Would you? There's iPads everywhere. Shut up and take my money. Would I get one? I don't know yet. Would it replace a Nexus 7 for you? I mean you do your email on your Nexus 7 right? I love the email on the Nexus 7 because it's Gmail. It's like native Gmail and I think it's wonderful. But the iPad has a lot going for it. I do think it's too big for some things. I like the size of the Nexus 7. I like the size of the Kindle Fire. I thought the Kindle Fire was mediocre entrant to the market. The new Kindle Fire. I'd be very interested in it. I mean it's just going to be a smaller version of the iPad right? The iPad is very good. It's like Apple is trolling us. Like it's just a bigger iPhone. It's just a smaller iPad. What does it matter? Dance monkeys. The iPod Touch is... What's the difference? The iPhone 4S is just a smaller version of the iPhone 5 without LTE. The iPhone 5 is a slightly larger version. Sure. I get it. I understand all of what you're saying. The iPod Touch is just an iPhone without... Have you ever read the story of Goldilocks? The iPod Touch is an iPhone without the radio. The iPad is a larger iPhone. The MacBook Air is an iPad with a keyboard. It's a circle of life. No I don't know. I mean but don't you think people want a smaller iPad? I think they probably want a smaller one. If they are going to try to sell us one, they know that people want a... I think I would get a... It's not like I would replace my iPad 3, but when I felt like my iPad 3 was now obsolete for some reason and I needed to get a new iPad, I'd get a 7. I really wish they'd call the iPad 3 the new... The iPad 3. Yeah. I really wish they had not called it the new iPad. I just don't think it's... It's just deeply confusing. I just don't think it's helpful. Are they going to call it the iPad Mini? So the two things I've heard, iPad Mini and iPad Air are the two... But iPad Air suggests the first iPad or the iPad... It's fat and chubby. Yeah. That doesn't sound right to me. The current iPad is extremely thin. Right. So I'm saying... So I don't think iPad Air... I think iPad Mini makes the most sense. iPad Lite. No. iPad Touch? Yeah. That would be confusing. That would be really confusing. The iPad Touch. The iPod Touch? No, it's got an A. What? Look, it'll happen. It's me at the store. You're right. And people are going to buy them. It's just... The what? The what? The iPad Touch. It's just I'm used to Apple making these... The what? The iPod Touch? These deep cases for their products. Like here's some stuff it can do that it could never do before. And it feels like with the iPhone 5... They don't need to do that. It was like we gave it a bigger screen LTE and it's like great. This is a smaller screen in LTE. Would you buy one of these on a contract? I think they put 3G in there. No, no. Because they don't have contracts. They're contract free. That's true. Right. So would I buy one not on contract with LTE? Yeah, that would be attractive. Plus, so do you think it would be... Like if the Nexus 7 had the option to do LTE... Yeah. It would be amazing. There are rumors of that swirling in the ether. Well, but I'm saying like that would be... I would be very excited about that if there's an iPad that has like amazing battery life and LTE and runs all the iPad apps. Because what's great is you can share your data between all your devices with AT&T's new... Share plan. Well, that's not what they use for the iPads. Yeah. It's just like a pay as you go. Essentially a pay as you go. That's the job. Yeah. Well, you got to learn what's up. No, but you can bundle... It doesn't matter. The point is, damn it. Sorry not to cut you off. It's not your son. But it's like whatever. I don't care. I'm looking... I'm reading the verge. I'm reading the verge.com. We just broke some news. What did we break? Well, we did hands-on with the Scion Lumia 920 for AT&T. I've just successfully trolled the podcast to be about the Lumia 920. Scion? There's a Scion Lumia? Scion. Scion? Scion. Scion the color? Yeah. It's blue. Scion. Okay. Not like S-C-I-O-N, the car company. Yeah. Scion. No. Correct. It would be like shiny, like dark purple with blue lights along the side of it. That would be cool actually. A little spinner on the back. Yeah, like a rim on the back somehow. Phone rims. PhoneRims.com. Check it out. New website. New enterprise. You're welcome, internet. PhoneRims.com. You're welcome. PhoneRims.com. SpinnyRibs for phone. So this can take us right into... Hold on a second. With the LED light. Are we done with the iPad mini? I think so. It's going to happen. I think Apple has to make a case for it in a better way. I don't think they do. I think the case has been made. I think people want smaller tablets. And I think all they have to say is, it's smaller. We wanted to make the best tablet for reading, the reading experience. And then again, they don't want to say you can't do everything with it, right? Right. What's the justification for the iPod touch? What do you mean? It's an iPhone without the phone. No, I don't think people think of it that way. I think they think of it as like a game player they give to their kids and have to buy a phone contract. Okay. You can just buy one. So let's think of what could be justifications for a seven. Do you give this to your kids? It's really an eight inch. It's closer to eight inches than seven inches. I think you give it to your kids. I think that's a good one. For their smaller hands. Smaller, dumber hands. Finally something they can swipe. Yeah. Something that'll respond to their desperate swipes. I'm sure they will come up with a case for it. But like, I just feel like I came out of this iPhone thing thinking they didn't change the software enough. The highlight feature of their software of iOS 6. Maybe this will be, maybe this will be, hold on. Maybe this will be, they're like, we had some stuff we were working on, some software. We couldn't do it in iOS 6. We didn't have ready for that launch. And we're introducing it with the new iPad. Maybe like one app. Maybe an update to the iBooks. A weather app. An iPad update. But we agree that, yeah, probably an iBooks update. But we agree that this will be ready for, if they do introduce it this month, which is the rumor, that it will be for holiday shopping. Without question. And they're going to sell a ton of them. Yeah. Like just. They'll sell a ton of them. What would really be impressive is that they can do a price point that's like, you don't expect it. Like the original iPad was one of those things where when they introduced it and they said $499, you were like, what is going on? Because the expectation was it's got to be like. $1000. And by the way, seeded by Apple to the Wall Street Journal. Yeah. But I think that the expectation here is probably like, I mean, if they could do it for $200, that would be insane. Yeah. If Apple could do a $200 iPad, it would just be. It'll be $250. I mean, we don't know. Why wouldn't it be $200? Because they have another product that's $200? No, I mean, I think that that's what they can make it for. It's expensive. I mean, does it matter? Like. It's just a blow money. I mean, can't they? No. For a little bit? What do they, what does it cost them to build an iPad? $5. No, it costs like $160 or something. I don't know. To build an iPad. I don't trust any of those. I mean, who knows? You can't, you're just in speculation. Yeah. Right. Here's what it costs. It's like the guy at iSupply is like $300. Like it makes no sense. I was going to say joint. Oh, I thought you like put something in his nose. Yeah. Well, you probably doing that too. Yeah. Weed. Coke. The guy at iSupply has no idea what he's doing. Probably doing that. He's trying to smoke weed. He's trying to smoke the cocaine and start the weed. How could he possibly guess a number? Hold on. Wait a second. Go ahead. You know how much it costs to make an iPad? No. It doesn't matter. They're making money off of it. Yeah. Like, do you think Apple put their like $200 in there? Yeah. I mean, I think that's what they're going to do. They're going to put $200 in there. They're going to put $200 in there. They're going to put $200 in there. They're going to put $200 in there. They're going to put $200 in there. Well, obviously Amazon feels comfortable doing like the $200 tablets because they're either breaking, not breaking even or close or just breaking. But they sell a bunch of stuff. But you know, and Apple has said this before, they refuse to sell things that add a loss. Um, but, but there's, they are going to sell a lot of software and books, especially on these devices. So that's the important thing. That's right. All right. What's the, what are we segueing into? Uh, well, you have two choices. You two, you stand across North Dakota and South Dakota. We can talk about, uh, Ellis's report, which is the messaging war between Apple and Facebook, which is actually my favorite feature of iOS six is the unified I message between the computer and the phone, which is great. Yep. Or we can talk about windows phone eight and what's going on. There's all kinds of stuff going on in this funny today. Gamblers choice, smugglers dilemma, smugglers dilemma. What does smuggles sounds like a really weird video game. Like a really bad episode of night rider or Miami five. Yeah. Like the rock off of like the 50 cent game dilemma is what happens, uh, right before smugglers blues, which I believe is actually like smugglers, what smugglers blues, which I believe is a name of a song from the soundtrack of Miami vice. Can you just look that up? Thanks. I'm going to go with windows phone eight or windows eight. What did you say? Windows phone eight, windows phone eight. There were, it's there, uh, uh, there's so much anger towards me about windows phone eight. What'd you do now? I'm just living. I'm just living. A lot of people really don't want me to write the review. There was a petition today. There was a petition that we, uh, that we struck down that what happened ruthlessly struck down like Josh and review quieted the voice. He can't talk nice comment. I think I, I think I might've ended up deleting the thread honestly. I don't remember. It's just like this stuff, like on our sites, like these guys who like freak out about me, like I'm a, somebody accused me of trying to date rape the Lumia. So early in the actual form. I mean, there's been a, there's a lot going on. So early in the week, can I voice my theory about the windows phone eight fanboys? They all work at Microsoft. No, well maybe, but I think that what happened is the Nokia, there used to be very vehement, angry, weird Nokia fanboys that were like the fins, the fins. They were sure that like every time we wrote anything negative about Symbian or Nokia that we were, our goal was ultimate goal was to bring down the economy of, of, of Finland and the finished people. And I've succeeded and I think we've, you know, mission accomplished. Where's my banner? Uh, but, and I think that what's happened is they've like moved over to, to windows phone and because of Nokia and the, and now it's like this for the forces of, of Microsoft fandom and Nokia fandom, like together has created like a, like a super beam, super, super fan. Yeah. Would you say a rat king, which is the most disgusting. That was so mean to me. I'm sorry to all the, is the most disgusting thing. It's not a real thing. Well, it's, it's a, it's an urban legend, but it's unverified. It's unverified. Snopes isn't sure yet. Well, I don't want to know. Yeah. I want to get it out of my mind. I just think they've like merged together and I think even regular fanboys are, have now become frustrated with the, with like the Lumia fans. Yes. Anyhow. So what, so, so there's a phone coming out. Oh my God, Paul. And you're going to review it. People have, people have been saying you should be ousted from the verge cast. For this reason right here, I just want you to know there's a tide, small tide, low tide. Well it's funny because I'm not on the verge cast as often. There are people who say you should be off all together because you don't know anything about technology. I'm able to say I'm really a great outside voice of reason. Those people are crazy Nokia fanboys. Who I just called a wrecking ball. I can't think of a more gross or insulting. They'd call it. I mean, I like there are things that CS out worse, but are actually better. Yeah. Let me walk you through the chronology. Early, the beginning of the week, Tom Warren writes, what is the big secret of the windows phone eight? Nobody's seen it. It's a secret. Nobody knows. There's an apparently no answer to words. 3d. Right. Well, the app developers are all, uh, they're all curious as to what's going on. Right? Why can't we see us? Why can't we write our apps for it? Nobody knows. It's very odd. Yeah. If I were an app developer, I'd be like, what? I mean, of course, on the other hand, like, you know, well, I guess I was six. They had bad betas like endless. Well they showed literally one of these Microsoft did this. They showed, they had a thing of an event, a big event to say like, here's windows phone eight and they didn't show all this new stuff. And they showed a bunch of stuff. Yeah. And then they were like, but then the developers don't get a crack at that. Like that doesn't make any sense. No, it's very, it's very odd. So there's that. I know it's hard to take from me knowing my, knowing one of the quotes from developers lifelong goal of bringing down everything windows related. One of the quotes from developers in Tom's piece is literally, why don't they just do this like Apple? Like they, they want that relationship where you get the SDK, you sign the NDA, you just go. I think it's a, so what's the secret with windows eight. So there's that big question. Then Tom ran a piece. How about a busy week with this stuff? It's been a busy man. He ran a piece. He Microsoft is, they're not going to do a surface phone this year, but it is on tap as plan B for the company. They're waiting to see how this round of launches go. I feel like it's like plan C. Right. But it's like a thing that's out there. Right. So it's not going to have, they want to see if their partners can handle it, which is basically what Microsoft has said to us. Like we've heard this, you mean one way or another. See if their partners can handle doing these things. Right. They're like, you know, they, they, we made the surface cause the PC partners aren't getting it done. So we had to do this. Have you seen the ads by the way, all over the subways? Yeah. I mean that's. They look good. We actually know. So, okay. So then there's that. And then next is the Lumia 920 was announced AT&T exclusive today. Which by the way, I do not believe was a choice that was made by Nokia or Microsoft. Right. In my heart of hearts, I don't think they would have wanted to cut out Verizon. Right. And my guess is. So the rumors are that Verizon will get it three months, four months from now. My guess is that Verizon said our, our testing is going to take longer than your launch window. Yeah. That's my guess. And or Verizon said. Or Verizon said we don't want it. Or AT&T said we'll commit more marketing dollars to this. Maybe. They certainly committed a lot of marketing dollars to the Lumia 900. Right. I mean it's very heavily advertised. So it's like, and so then all of this is happening. The phones are coming on in November. But Windows 8 is launching on the 26th. Dude, it's crazy. The end of this month is. Yeah. So Windows 8 is launching on the 26th. We just got the invite today to the event. And then Surface is coming like at midnight on that day. Oh wow. So it's like Windows 8 at 10 AM and then there's a Surface launch party. The 26th? The 26th. And then at midnight. Oh God. Or something like that. This is Microsoft 2.0. By the way. So they're, they're piling this stuff out. I mean, it's my anniversary. I just want to let you know. I feel like they're doing it on purpose. Right. Yeah. Are you happy? Fanboys? Cause Microsoft's getting me back. They're ruining my anniversary. Just like the, the, the debate. Just like the debate ruined my. Obama's anniversary. Oh right. The debate ruined his anniversary. In a way Obama and I have a lot in common. When you think about it, we're very, very, very similar. In almost every way. Yeah. Just without question on every point. I missed one. Similarities. And then Windows Phone 8 itself launches on October 29th. Oh God. So it's on the 26th there is Windows 8 and Surface. Yep. And then several days later on the 29th there's Windows Phone 8. And then somewhere in November the Lumia 920 comes out. Full blood. And so when does the Wii U come out? This all the way comes back to the start. Is that October 29th is when we, when Microsoft will finally reveal what is going on with Windows Phone 8 that they couldn't tell us this whole time. Oh. Which is not going to be. All indications appear to be nothing. Well, I mean, what could it be? What is it going to be? I mean, Tom, there's like a new animation for the live tiles. I'm sure there's a, there's a, there's a fourth size of live tiles. Just the whole screen. My hope would be that like it's just super great. And they wouldn't want to give it away. Yeah. But you know, the problem with Windows Phone 7 was not that it like lacked some core functionality. Well it did. It did. But here and there, the big problem was that the third party apps were not. It was a combination of those two problems. But if they'd solved one of those, I mean like. It still felt like it was a generation behind. Both of those together were killer. Right. And because they haven't necessarily given the app devs enough time. That's what's really weird. What I'm really worried about is that the apps will still feel like they're a generation. Oh, it's going to be the last one. Regardless of what else they're doing. Even at the time of the Lumia 900 release, the apps, where there were still many apps that had not been updated for the latest version, which was 7.5 of the OS. The apps still hadn't taken advantage. There were many apps that I use that still hadn't taken advantage of some of the things they added in 7.5 because the window was short. Right. And people were still working on them when they introduced this flagship phone, which it isn't really a flagship phone obviously, because if it had been, then they wouldn't have abandoned it after two months. Maybe you should just wait six months to write the review, Josh. I just think the review should be written by somebody who really, really will be complimentary to everything that Microsoft does. That way we won't have any problems at all. Can we get Ballmer to review this phone directly? I have to get Steve. By the way, I invite you, I'm speaking to you, Steve Ballmer. I invite you to write the review of the Lumia 920. That would be so great. That would be killer actually. Like an opp review. I really like this and I love the live tiles. It's so easy to get in, get out, get on with my life. I want to invite like all sorts of companies, especially Steve Ballmer to write reviews of their own product. Like we'd still do all our own review, but it's like an op-ed, it's an op-ed, like a presidential candidate does an op-ed in your magazine. Any senior member of the Microsoft executive team. Yeah. The CFO, whoever he might be. The CFO, the CTO, Steven Sanofsky, Steve Ballmer, you could review your product on the verge and we'll publish it. As a siloed op-ed area, but I invite you to do it. And an exclusive. I'd like to see where you would be critical. This would be awesome. And you have to pay our ad team to run that op-ed. We're not kidding, right? We're not kidding. I'll tell you what I'd really like to do, what I'd really love to do is see Ballmer review a competitor's product. No, we'd never do that. I'd like to see Ballmer review the iPhone 5. No, you can't do that. Why not? They can do whatever they want to do it. Okay, fine. Come and review. Stop having crazy dreams. Come and review any member of the executive team of Microsoft. Yeah. Upper level, upper echelons. I would like you to come and review one of your products for our site. Not as the official verge review as an op-ed. Yeah. So I'm guessing this has been floated a million times, but are they hiding the fact? Is it like windows RT? No. What do you mean? Like he's asking the kernel is the same. The same kernel. Just absolutely entirely the same. It's a Windows 8 kernel, essentially. Yeah. That was the first time I've seen that. That's like their thing. That's the announcement of Windows 8. But that doesn't necessarily- Nobody ever told me. Well, the Wall Street Journal, I guess, is not reporting all the- I really need to pay better attention to Windows. There wasn't a- Why don't you get like some magazines of scripts? Like a tech magazine. See, like I get like wired- Is there a Windows magazine? Is there a Windows magazine? Windows PC magazine. Is there a printer at our server facility? No. Because that's where it is locally? Let's move on from this. I'm just asking. What's the next topic? Is there one or are we done here? Nice. Well, there's the... Okay. Well, there's two more. They're all related again. So we can go back to Facebook messaging and ecosystem lock-in. I have no interest in that, talking about that. I mean, we can talk about it, but it actually goes to the... It's not that I have no interest in it, it just speaks to that whole thing that we've been talking about, which is the... Endless ecosystem lock-in. The ecosystem lock-in like life choices. Okay. So then you can go to Facebook hitting a billion users, which was announced this morning, which is crazy. And then putting out their first ad, which is completely nonsensical. Facebook made an ad? Yeah. Can I see the ad? The tagline of the ad is Facebook is like a chair. What? No. Can we see it? Can I see the ad? Yeah. This is a television ad. No, they said they called it a brand video. So who that... Can you roll this? Can you roll this? Who can I pay good money to see roll it? Let me see if I can get this. I've been reading a lot of Sherry Turkle, the Loan Together book. And it's like, I don't remember having all these bad feelings about Facebook. Facebook was always relatively innocuous to me. Now I think of it as this like evil beast that's eating our children. What did you... Oh, you guess you couldn't have read Trent's piece that he wrote today. Can you tell him the title of Trent's piece? Trent's premise is that he basically talks about how... You have to lie. You basically have to lie on Facebook to be who you are because they are demanding... They really are just trying to... Because it's just evil. It's trying to compile data about you. It's really interesting. At some point, he definitely compares Zuckerberg to Hitler in some way. Usually the end of an argument for Trent is just the beginning. I sent the ad to Michael. I don't know. They're watching it right now. I can see it from here. Yeah. Put that up. I mean, it's great. It's insane. Facebook is like chairs. Chairs. I mean, if you could hear the audio, I mean, there's like deep, meaningful voice over. That was a bench, by the way. They just showed a bench. The Morgan thing. Can we get the audio on this? Some of these are not... That's a sofa. Yeah. Okay. So... I mean, this is all very meaningful stuff. Sparking the conversation. Okay. Chairs. We sit on them. We put our chairs together. And then chairs are like Facebook in huge letters on the screen. I like this. That's great. Doorbells, airplanes. Wait a second. These are all other things that are like Facebook. Bridges. Because they connect us. Do chairs connect us? I don't know. Oh, no. They have a shot of somebody writing on glass. What if there aren't enough chairs? I saw Adrian's tweet about this morning. Adrian's tweet about this morning was just, what the hell are you talking about Facebook? No, they're saying Facebook is everything. Yeah. Facebook is everything. Facebook is everything. It is. Because we let it be. It is society. Yeah. This makes me depressed. Can I just say? Facebook is like chairs. Look at that. Chairs are like Facebook. Wait a second. Here's the social grid. Social... What do they call it? Social graph. There's a social graph. Is this the same commercial? Yeah. Still going? Chairs are like Facebook. It's just airing on TV. They say no. I'll tell you something. I mean, it is 90 seconds of complete insanity. Can I tell you something that people really want to do in their ads? They want to connect emotionally. They want to connect on a deep, emotional, and frankly, poignant level about their lives. Ads for services and ads for products now are not going to work unless you make at least one menopausal woman cry. That's all there is to it. Goosebumps like every single commercial break. No, it's have you seen that a PMSing woman... Oh my God. You're done. In North Korea. One emotionally fragile person. Okay, let's just leave it at that. It could be male or female. Paul Miller. Paul Miller. It could be Josh Topolsky, who seems emotionally fragile. Does he not? Referring to himself in the third person. They're not working unless one or hundreds of thousands of emotionally fragile people are shedding a tear because of the sentiment. Yeah, no, I did the Kindle Fire commercial and the Nexus 7 commercial. The Nexus 7 commercial with the girl. It's a very cute... What's the commercial? It's some phone. I hope my child is that playful. There's a phone commercial. This guy is making eye contact with the girl in the seat. She was kind of asleep and then he makes eye contact with the rear view mirror. I think it's like a Motorola commercial. Describing a trailer for the film Funny Games, a horrific thriller set in a resort town. He just makes eye contact with her in his rear view mirror and she smiles at him and then you know they're just so in love with each other. Is that like a Match.com commercial? No, it's just like a Verizon or Motorola or something, like a Droid commercial. She's like, I was in the road, I'm texting this other man. And then it's like Droid and the car explodes and it becomes like a robot, the robot explodes. Like a huge, I don't know, lightning bolt. Even the droid commercials now are like super touchy. No, droid. They're done with the droid stuff. They're into like, they're like, it's like all about your phone. Yeah. Yeah. Full screen. Full screen thing. Yeah. Makes it like the first full screen phone. Like what do you mean? What does that mean? That's like, you're not a thing. It's not a letter box. Yeah. But it has borders. It's got edges. No, it does not end. It's a mathematical plane. Full screen. That's a mathematical plane. That's a mathematical plane. Full screen as opposed to what is the ad? Is it the first full screen phone? Yeah. It's a Razer M-Phone. What does that mean? It's just a nonsensical statement. No one knows what it means. You can't say what it means. It's just ad talk. Ad speak. Oh yeah. Like finally somebody clicked the maximize button on a phone screen. Here it is. Oh look. Say hello to the full screen phone. Say hello to the full screen phone. Send this one over to these dudes. Oh, hey, what are you going to, I'm going to, I got to get a new phone. What are you going to get? I'm thinking about getting the iPhone. It's not a, I'm not going to get it. It's not a full screen phone. I don't think it's a full screen phone. Is it? I know that the Droid Razer M is a full screen. Can you imagine somebody walking into a store asking if they have any full screen phones? You guys, what, how many, what, can you show me all the full screen phones that you have here? Just can I see every model next to each other? Oh yeah. Here's the commercial. This is the charming. Wait, what is this one? This is, this is the Droid commercial. It's like the, it's like the map commercial. Oh, I haven't seen this one. It's like, yeah, here it is. Well, we should put it on the, we should wait for it. We should show, can we show this one? Yeah. Get that up on the screen. Look at, look at this. Yeah. Edge to edge display. By the way, a phone which clearly has edges as they're discussing. Yeah. Look at this. The maps are working, aren't they? Yeah. It's like, you need to know how to do that fish. You need to know how to do that fish. Yeah. You do my doodle job. Boom. You using Pinterest? It's just like, it has edges. Look at that. There are edges. It goes on. Hey, can you go buy one of those right now? Look at this. No edges, no sides to that phone. It's full screen. The whole screen is in play. The whole thing. Every part of that screen is being utilized for information. I was like, you know what? I can't, I'm sorry, but I'll tell you what. I have not emotionally connected with my phone. I accept Verizon. I accept your new advertising. It is not, that is not the robot. Yeah. That's fine. You know what? If I see someone get terminated by a robot, I'll watch the terminated. I don't need to use your full screen phone. Yeah. Or see it terminating. Okay. There's one more thing. Message chain? No. Okay, good. Not that it, by the way, read Ellis's piece. It's great. We should. I mean, I will say this. I wanted to leave the iPhone and now iMessage is like, ah, that's pretty good. Welcome to the life of a Blackberry user circa five years ago. Does it finally work where you get everything exactly the same on the Mac? It's great. That's wonderful. So what's funny is that Ellis really loves, I was talking to him about this. He really loves Facebook. Yeah. I guess I, it's that ad. You know what the problem is? Because here's the thing. You know what else is really good? Google talk. And you know what Google talk works on? Everything. Hey, what? Everything. No, no, no. That's what I was going to say. Like, like I can use it on a laptop. Yeah. So I'm really used to doing, having Google talk conversations. Yeah. Which pop up in my email and they, I see them on my phone and they're all there. And I've actually stopped using third party clients and now I just use the. In the browser. In the browser. In the browser. They have a, they have a great Chrome plugin, which actually I would love to talk to that team and show them how they can make it even better. Multiple accounts for starters. But but I'm also used to like with my voicemail, I use Google voice. Yeah. I set up so that it's my voicemail and no matter what phone I use and it shows up, I have a plugin that I can see when I get a new message in Chrome and I can just open up a dropdown right there and listen to it. So I'm kind of used to this cross platform. This these continuous clients, if you will. I mean, it's my dream finally, truly being realized. You know where it doesn't work well? Yeah. You know what? Google voice. Google talk. Oh no. Google talk is there's nothing for it. They don't even have a client. Yeah. Also. It's like. It's like a part. You know, right. But is that about like stuff? It's just saying I just want it to all work. You know, you don't be great. It does. They made if they made APIs that allowed, you know, like they said they would for the face time. Yeah. Don't even the face time. The face. Hey, like the catch here. Dan is more like Dan is a lie. Dan Seifert. Yeah. What? What do you want, Dan? But there are plenty of clients for Google talk on iOS. I really name a good one. Name a good one. Deeter. I think there's a few. We just started. Sorry. There are in our chat room arguing about what good Google talk. Verbs says Dan. Yeah, whatever, man. You know, you know, it's great. The native Google talk client on Android. But I will say, like, I went back to something called B drive. I went back as just a man who respects himself. Won't install. I went back to the galaxy. And I could do it. B drive. Oh, not happy. Oh, B drive. Deeter says they all suck compared to me. I went back to the galaxy Nexus after using the iPhone five. And I have to say, there are some definite things I miss about the iPhone five. Yeah. I'll say one thing that I noticed. And maybe it's because it's LT and this is not. But the handshake between leaving Wi-Fi and getting on 3G is like much better on the iPhone. Yeah. Much better. Like, and I don't know why. Dan, this app has two and a half stars. Oh my God. This is. And it's like the UI is. All right. Any other questions before we wrap up? They're all asked. What do they want to hear about? Well, there's now there's two. Now I think about it. Go ahead. B drive. B drive. That does look pretty good actually. Two and a half stars. Well, there's two things. One, I think we should just take a moment and mourn the final death of Ping, which was killed this week. Do I have to actually spend a moment doing that? No. And then the actual important thing. I miss Ping now that it's gone. Why didn't we use it when it was here? Because it was useless. Maybe it was useless. Maybe we just didn't spend time with it. Spend enough time with it. It's like a neglected. Maybe Apple should have come up with a friggin streaming music service already. Yeah, right. This guy knows what's up. Biosystems dead. Everybody uses Spotify, Apple. Everybody uses Spotify. Except for you. You are like a loser for not having Spotify. I will say and perhaps there's something more to be to be written about this. But I mean, I just am increasingly like fed up with anything that doesn't travel with me. Yep. I'm like, oh, I'm not going to do this for and maybe it's because I'm I do this for a living and I'm like over here with this and over there with that. No, you can't tell a normal human to manage files to like plug things in and copy. I just I just I don't want to do it. I have to say like they got they got the tape. I mean, it just drives me crazy. On this phone, I've got like I've got my play my music stuff that's like uploaded to Google Play. Yeah, right. And then I have my iTunes stuff, which is all synced. It's like sync to my computer and it's sync to my iPhone. And to my iPad. You know, all it's all I clouded iTunes matched up. And then and that stuff is also that also sync, you know, my collection also syncs to play. But then I have like my collection matched in RDO and then I have it like matched in Spotify. And it's like it's like, isn't there some way to just not do what I'm doing right now? Is there some way to get this all together? What is the way I don't just I guess if I had to choose at this point, if I had to choose between my collection that exists and RDO or Spotify, you'd pick Spotify? No question. Every single person I wouldn't pick Spotify pick RDO. Well, I mean, I like RDO better. And I kind of hope Microsoft doesn't buy them, which is a rumor. Oh, well, I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really know. I read something about I don't think we ran it. I think we run it. We could we felt it wasn't, you know, we didn't feel confident enough about it. But I mean, it's it's out there. Yeah. But look, I think everybody hears of you. What's the story is that like and by the way, I have all my stuff synced to my phone. I mean, on RDO, the stuff that I wanted to do with Spotify to gigs and gigs of music. So it's not like I'm not listening offline or not to me. Nice thing is I can say, like, I don't want this anymore. And I want this new stuff. And I don't have to like stress out about whether I whether I'm buying it or not, because there are most albums I listen to for a week or two and then I'm done. Right. I'm getting that music. I don't have I've had subscription services since like 2005. And now I am pretty like tired of all the records I have right now. I've got a lot of vinyl. I've got some stuff on iTunes. I bought some stuff on the way. Crazy how such a change. I mean, I when I was younger, I had records that I listened to all the time and on vinyl or like on CD. No, I put them on and listen to them. And now it's like I feel so bored with having heard I've heard it so many times like Bob Dillon. Like I've heard so much Bob Dillon. He's amazing. I mean, Beatles, Beatles, greatest band ever in the history of music. Greatest band ever in the history of music. Basically an empirical fact. Crazy. I mean, the the absolutely crazy band in the history of certainly of modern music. Yeah. But fine. That's fine. You can argue in your life. I don't know who you would think would be in their place. I mean, if you do not say the clash, do not say the rolling stone. Do not say the rolling stone. But I think it's like combined, both excellent, both incredible, groundbreaking, unbelievable. I would actually pick the clash straight up. There's no comparison between the clash and the Beatles musicianship and all that crap. I mean, just in terms of like, just here. Are you saying your favorite band is the clash or you pick? I just don't like the Beatles. Like flat out. You don't like the music. But you can't deny that they're the most important rock band of all time. I think they're a great pop band. Oh, I'm not trying to bully you, but you I mean, they're the most important. I think they did some stuff to the musicians. They listen to the I totally was not the Beatles before I left the internet. I listen to the Beatles now. Well, the Beatles, I'll say, are a band that you can listen to over and over again. And you feel like you never get bored of them, probably because of the greatest band ever in the history of instantly music. Beatles mystery, magical tour, magical mystery tour. Anyhow, the point is that even even the Beatles at this point, I'm kind of like, I've heard this already. I will need to hear something new. And I think that that is musical. And maybe it's bad. Go yet. I need to hear. Yeah, no, that's that's over. That's those 15 minutes or have sailed. What go to is 15. Oh, God, it's done. I mean, does he have another song? No, he does actually. Actually, Tan lines just remixes new song. Oh, yeah. Which is which is pretty good. The remix. So I will. There are records that I used to listen to where every song on the record would be my favorite song at some point, like just track by track. And then it would like cycle over. And that I don't have that experience with any new music. Any new I never do. And because it's like my attention is like, I get so much other stuff. I do occasionally. But like with like this beach house record that I put on my my favorites list. I have listened to it, you know, a ton of times. And I really, really like it. The new beach house, the new beach house bloom. It's called really good. And I really like it. But I will say even things that I'm like loving right now. I'm kind of like, all right, I need to switch it up and listen to something new or just hear something different that I have like that my ears have not heard. Also I'm desperate for there to be a guitar band that doesn't also have like a really whiny, ephemeral singer. And that doesn't seem to exist anymore. So my chemical romance, my comical romance. Yeah. Come on. Like what kind of thing about a different track? I've been listening to rumors a lot. Fleetwood Mac and like amazing. I just have what's a song. Have you listened to Paul and I'll sing Fleetwood Mac? Have you listened to TUSK? Can I shazam you? Does that count? Sure, sure, sure. Have you listened to TUSK? They don't have a new favorite track on that record that I've heard 20 times. I'm not going to listen to Jack White. No rumors. TUSK. Okay, so what were you going to say? Have you listened to TUSK? Throw that in my face. Yeah, I have TUSK and rumors on vinyl. TUSK is amazing. I listen to them constantly. You know what? At the time, at the time, TUSK was the, I believe the story is that it was the most expensive record ever to make. It was. It was like two years or something working on it. I think it was over a million dollars. I think it was their, their like break. It was their record where they were like falling apart. I mean, Michael Shane is now. He was just doing, just typing the word rush and bold into the chat. Oh, wow. Anyhow, you are crazy. We should wrap up. We should really wrap up. So the one thing we actually didn't talk about is, and the people are crazy for it, a flurry of Nexus rumors. Oh, Nexus rumors. Yeah. Yeah, we should talk about it. All over the place. Down to like LG's making one. Yeah, and we're being, we're being, you know, obviously we want to be very careful about how, we don't, and I know that we have published rumors. Some of them were right. Some of them were not right. You know, we, we do our best to publish the stuff that we really believe in that comes from sources that are very reliable. And you know, there've been a lot of rumors floating around about the, about the NexEye. There was a, something in the Wall Street Journal published a few months ago. They said there's going to be multiple phones. We've heard a variety of things. The current crop of rumors, because the kind of what people are saying is the next round of next Nexus phones or Nexus devices are going to be multiple phones or multiple tablets from multiple manufacturers. So right now the rumors are there's going to be an HTC phone, the Nexus 5, which will be a five inch phone, which is the worst. I shouldn't say that. That's very rude. There's going to be LG, Nexus G. Is there going to be a Dell street? Nexus, Nexus street? Let me just keep going. Wait, it was the Optimus G Nexus. There's a Sony Xperia Nexus, which I have to say I'm extremely interested in. That would be extremely interested in. If they did like a 4.3 or 4.5 inch Xperia type phone that was a Nexus with a Sony camera. Sony has allowed me to like anything that they've built since like windows mobile 6. I can say that. I heard earlier this weekend. There's nothing worth publishing, but I heard a rumor earlier this week that I know that Sony was supposed to build the Nexus S and it just fell apart. We've always known that the Xperia play was supposed to be a Nexus S for Sony. No, it was the Xperia play was supposed to be a Nexus device. I think that fell through. Oh right. Remember that failed Xperia? That's where the Nexus S came from. Anyway, continue. This is exciting. Xperia Nexus or whatever. The only one I haven't heard of Samsung. So they all have the same chipset maybe to allow them to get the updates quickly. There was an interesting rumor that we didn't publish because it's just a rumor. We would be publishing it third party and we can't really verify it, but there was an interesting rumor. I think it was on Android Central where they talked about some idea that this would be like a multiple. There would be a chassis now. Essentially they would Google would be saying. Like they did for Windows phone. They would be saying like these all represent like a kind of. Oh and the Galaxy Nexus 2. Oh Galaxy Nexus 2. Which is what is the Galaxy Nexus 2? Is it just this with a better camera? Who knows? Better processor. It needs a better screen and camera. Yeah. What about like retina 2? No, no, no, no, no. What was it? Pentile. Pentile 2. No. Does not need. Pentile 2.0. They're actually doing that. Everybody needs to use. So they've gotten away from that branding and the S3. Pentile Plus. They're just calling it. It's just but it's still crap. I really, really want it. I really want to discourage people from using AMOLED displays. And then so anyhow, there's a what did you say the Nexus 2. Galaxy Nexus 2. And then a tablet. A new Nexus 7 and whatever. So we don't know. We've been hearing a lot of rumors about October. I mean I would be willing to bet a hundred US dollars. This is in my ass but I don't know what's worth more at this point. I think probably a hundred dollars. To who? The world. Okay. That there's going to be something this month. You know, I think there will be. That's just such like a best of both worlds scenario. Like every month is going to be crazy. I mean just think about the timing wise. I'm not talking. I'm just saying everybody. No, that's the best. I know that's so great. What would be great while you're crazy skin version. Well, they say they say on this in this is it Android Central's that the art. It's actually really interesting. Or Android and me as well. Whoever wrote it. It's very interesting because they what they suggest is and who knows if it's real or not. But they're basically saying like Google's going to say we have a new component of Android, which is like skinning. And that's like a thing you can plug into to do skinning. But you can also like turn it essentially turn it off. So presumably you can sell what we've been asking for forever. You're saying they actually would do that. I mean, that's the room. But of course, that could just be a fever dream, a fantasy fever dream that somebody's having. Who knows? I'd be very excited to see where it goes. Obviously, there's going to be a lot in store. This month is just bonkers. Keep it locked to the verge all month long. Is that cool? You know, this is my sixth month without the Internet. No, it's not. Is it really? At the end of October, it will be I'll be halfway Halloween. Oh, speaking of Halloween, we have on the verge Halloween edition. What coming up? What's the day? October 30th. Oh, is that right? Michael October 30th. Are we going to run the spooky Motorola ad for the third time? I don't know. But I'm going to tell you what I'm asking for. Here's requests that have gone out. I don't know if they're going to happen. Well, yesterday there was discussion of me shaving my beard and being dressed as David Bowie in like the star child like outfit. I don't know if that'll happen, but I would definitely be I would be willing to do it. Let's put it that way. If the price is right. I asked for a fog machine or dry ice for the stage, which I'm hoping we can get. I'm willing to pay for that out of my own pocket. And that's right. I will pay the 50 dollar rental fee. And that's and I just oh, and maybe a costume contest, some Halloween related fun. I don't know what send your send your suggestions. What is this like give candy to each other? That's boring. Send your Halloween related suggestions into a verge cast at the verge.com. We should wrap up. Yeah. Are we done? Are they going for anything else? No, but I have two things to say. Two things. The GIF away one announced next week. The GIF away one announced the winner of a Ford Focus electric from the last. Based on I can't say that the entries are there's some insane you guys have done yourself. There's some very hard. We're spending a lot of time figuring out who the winner of this contest is. The Verge Android app was updated today. Oh, yeah. No, it was updated yesterday. Yesterday, Verge Android app. Seriously, if you haven't downloaded it, go check it out. Totally hollow. But like the good hollow. Yeah. Totally hollow. There's been a bunch of forums, a bunch of tweaks and updates and design changes. I actually am really I was not that happy with the first version of it. And I'm feeling a lot better about this version. I feel like it's it's pretty good. I think where iOS is coming, iOS is coming. We're certainly it's coming soon. Forums are going to be added. There are there will be design tweaks and fixes for the iPhone five because there's been some incompatibilities with that. And it's going to be screen. That's coming soon. You can see you can see one row more of our of our stories. The best we actually we actually we actually are talking about doing some of the hollow stuff on the iOS app because it's just just feels like really good. Like, yeah, we're not kind of I'm not sure that we won't at some point. Yeah, but we're working on we're working on tweaks and fixes for all that stuff. And before you ask about an iPad app, that's we're still in the exploration exploration zone. It's called Safari. Here is the Safari mobile Safari. My man, my man's all right. That's the first guest this week. If you'd like to get in touch with us, you can email at Virgcast at the verge.com. You can leave a comment on the post. We love that. And we know you will complain of our interruptions and Paul's lack of information about total ignorance on all his complete is complete ignorance in every at every level. Yeah. Of discourse. And not just about technology, no, about every ever I mean, literally, very common sense. Is there is there any was there any part of any conversation we had where you did not come off as a unbelievably ignorant that time we were counting the 10 and I skipped eight. You even know it exists. At one point, I knew you could leave a message about that. Or you can find us on Twitter. The verge is at verge. I'm at Joshua Tupolsky. Eli is at reckless Paul is at future Paul and boy, I got to look at what people are tweeting at you. This is insane. I bet it's so good. And PO box 501 zip code 10276. I'm gonna send you something. Oh, it's New York, New York 10276. Yeah, I'm gonna send you something good. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna send you something that will not keep like, like a fruitcake. Remember, there is actually when we were at Engadget, we went to see yes, we left for CS and somebody had said cupcakes as like a PR thing. Oh, yeah. And they were like sitting on my desk at a well like a screen printed logo. Yeah, for like three weeks. They like hand delivered them to my apartment. We were all confused. What happened? No, I thought they were sitting around for three weeks at the office. Oh, that maybe that was another time. Maybe you brought them in. Maybe there's been multiple cupcake and lesson. The lesson here is don't send cupcakes to people unless you know they're going to get them or unless you're sitting in the PO box 501 New York, New York 10276. All right. That's Joe. We'll be back. We'll be back next week. Yeah. With more of Virg Cassie goodness. I might not be back because I'm ignorant. Depends. 100% ignorant. Let's not like I might forget what time the podcast is at. It does seem or how to navigate to the podcast. It does seem relatively actually if you're using a smartphone at this point. Never now. That's bad. Horrible. Bad. You mean bad. I mean like I was map. So bad. Why? What's it going to take? Why did you ruin this? Can we just send this week? Can I go to the first cast? As always, I wish you and yours all the very best for the weekend ahead. After Friday. Lingafalls, what's the fuckingったbleto stay awesome. You
 Hey, and welcome to the Vergecast for the week of October 1st, 2012.
 I'm Josh Tupolsky.
 I'm Paul Miller.
 I'm Neil Ipatel.
 We're doing some really weird curl stuff here.
 I like it.
 Yeah, screw it.
 You like that?
 Take that, America.
 There's your...
 Debate that.
 I don't know.
 Anyhow, this is the Vergecast where we discuss the weekend, technology culture, culture,
 culture, art culture, science culture, and feelings.
 Feeling culture.
 Touch culture.
 Touching culture.
 Touch culture.
 I don't know what that means.
 Touch culture.
 That sounds like the beginning of a Wall Street Journal investigative series on how touch
 screen fans are changing our lives.
 Touch culture.
 Touch culture.
 I was looking at...
 Do you remember the touch diamond?
 These days, people want to touch everything, not just their phone screens.
 Sometimes they touch each other.
 No, no.
 I hear this story constantly of the children.
 They're trying to swipe on a TV.
 They're trying to swipe on a magazine.
 The nation of moronic children walking around trying to swipe everything.
 No offense.
 News flash.
 Kids are stupid.
 Your kid's not impressive.
 Your kid is uneducated.
 Your kid doesn't know that things are different.
 He was amazing.
 He was trying to swipe on the TV.
 It's like, so the TV should be a giant touch screen?
 Is that what you're telling me?
 Kids try to do all kinds of crazy shit.
 I saw a kid try to put a screwdriver into a socket.
 Was that cool?
 Should we invent things where you can do that?
 Do you want a story of my youth?
 Yes.
 My father is an emergency room doctor.
 When I was a child and he caught me playing with the outlet, he told my mom that it would
 be fine.
 He was like, just let him do it.
 He'll get hurt and they'll learn not to do it anymore.
 And then he goes wrong.
 I'm right here.
 He was confident he could revive my list.
 That's like if he does go into cardiac arrest.
 Yeah.
 He's like, I'll fix it.
 I have a fairly good recovery rate.
 He's like, don't worry.
 I got this.
 Let him get shocked.
 He's like, listen, worst case scenario, we can have another child.
 I got shocked by our like, what should we call it?
 I don't know.
 Washers and dryers.
 The bigger plug.
 The plug for washers and dryers.
 Oh, the 220.
 That's bad.
 How did you get shocked by that?
 I don't know.
 Screwdriver?
 No, I don't really remember.
 Piece of foil in there?
 I don't know.
 By the way, if you're a child listening at home right now, let me give you a few ideas.
 Ice pick, screwdriver, maybe a thing you take a gum wrapper and fold it in half and stick
 it in there.
 A clothes hanger?
 That would be good.
 I mean, you might have done uncurl it a little bit or use the edge of it.
 What else could you stick in there?
 Maybe if you find a metal pen, a metal pen, you really jam it in there or just, or just
 swipe it.
 Yeah.
 Just try to swipe across it.
 This is like, no, this is the change in generations.
 Our generation walked around with metal pens finding outlets.
 It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like in our generation, our parents were like,
 oh, so cute.
 He was trying to, he was looking for the on switch on the book.
 Like no one would think that was cute.
 They'd be like, this kid is stupid.
 Like he needs to learn that the book is a book and the TV is a TV, you know?
 Like anyhow.
 So the verge cast is about, the verge cast is about the week in news.
 What happened this week?
 So there was like a lot of news, but all of it felt kind of low key.
 It was low.
 It was a slow burn.
 But a bunch of stuff talk about actually, kind of the biggest news in the industry is
 that T-Mobile and Metro PCS and Sprint are all, they're all competing to buy each other
 basically.
 Well, they can't all buy each other.
 Metro PCS ain't buying no one.
 So it started out with an announcement.
 By the way, that's a double negative.
 I think it means they are buying someone.
 Ain't buying no one.
 Are buying someone.
 Yeah.
 Is buying someone.
 Ain't buying no one.
 They're not buying anyone.
 They're not buying no one.
 That means they are buying someone.
 Yeah.
 That's right.
 I hear what you're saying.
 I just blow your mind.
 Paul's brain is going to drop out of the front of his head.
 You started a couple days ago with Metro PCS and Deutsche Telekom agreeing that they would
 combine assets.
 And then today it's Sprint spinning up saying, no, no, hold on.
 We want to buy Metro PCS.
 What does Metro PCS have that-
 They have Spectrum and-
 I know they have vaguely racist commercials.
 That's the thing I know most about-
 Not a really bad logo.
 About Metro PCS is that they have Indian guys for something in their commercials.
 They're like-
 The StrikeV is slightly racist.
 They're the biggest player in the prepaid game.
 And so they kind of callously target the lower end of the market.
 Whose Spectrum do they own?
 Their own?
 They have their own.
 What is it?
 What is it?
 GSM?
 CDMA?
 CDMA plus LTE.
 They have LTE.
 They have LTE.
 That'd be great for Sprint.
 Their own LTE.
 For T-Mobile-
 No, it's great for T-Mobile.
 So this is the thing.
 T-Mobile has no LTE.
 Right.
 So T-Mobile has turned into basically a low cost.
 They're competing in the prepaid market against Metro PCS now because they can't really compete
 against-
 I feel so bad when I see T-Mobile commercials.
 Yeah, it's like you lost.
 Like you thought-
 And everybody got the iPhone and they're like, uh, hey, you want the iPhone?
 And no, I mean they literally are like-
 Is this hot?
 Yeah, be careful.
 What is this?
 What kind of tea is this?
 Caffeine-free lemon ginger.
 Oh, hello.
 Very fancy.
 I don't want you to be up all night.
 Michael takes care of Josh.
 Because you know me, this is going to put me right to bed.
 No, so T-Mobile kind of lost.
 I mean, they had AT&T on the hook and they thought they were going to get swept off their
 feet and then they got left.
 You call this hot tea?
 And I would say it's room temperature.
 Room temperature tea.
 Tap it.
 It's tap it.
 That definitely sounds-
 It's fine.
 It's very, very not hot.
 There's a band I was thinking of.
 Go on.
 Go on.
 So they're stuck.
 They need the Spectrum.
 They can't buy anymore.
 The best option is, well, T-Mobile's best option is we're in the prepaid low end game.
 We'll just merge with Metro PCS, which has LTE in his dominant low end game.
 They have Spectrum for the whole country?
 I didn't know they had LTE Spectrum.
 They're around.
 Yeah, no, they do LTE.
 How do they get all-
 They've got a variety of crappy LTE.
 They don't like borrow off of Verizon or AT&T?
 They do here and there.
 They're not a glorified NPM now.
 Yeah, no, they have their own Spectrum.
 They're more regional.
 I really underestimated Metro PCS this whole time.
 They're the hello, hello, hello, right?
 Yeah.
 So it's good for this.
 It makes sense with two of them.
 That's how I identify-
 I mean, this is Sprint saying we're going to try to kill.
 I mean, Sprint stepping in the mix is we're going to try to kill T-Mobile.
 If Sprint were to capture Metro PCS, how much stronger of a carrier would it make them?
 So it would make them dominant on the slow end because they run Boost and they run Virgin.
 So this whole prepaid market, this is where they're all competing.
 But they wouldn't be able to compete-
 I mean, this is what kind of is crazy about this.
 They wouldn't be able to compete with Verizon in the sense of being the top tier.
 Why don't they all team up?
 Well, it's just interesting that this is where-
 Here's an idea.
 This is where there's the most action.
 And you've actually talked about this a lot, this idea that there's these MVNOs and these
 prepaid carriers like Simple Mobile that are now rising up and providing real price competition.
 I believe the MVNO has come back with a vengeance.
 I see these ads everywhere on the train, just everywhere.
 For ridiculously-
 Is that the one that Simple Mobile, is that the one we were talking about?
 Yeah.
 Now, Simple Mobile and maybe somebody in our...
 I don't know if anybody actually uses it, but I was told, and I was actually the sort
 of man I wanted to investigate.
 I was told that Simple Mobile does GSM, like 4G, GSM service, and equivalent to AT&T.
 And they roam across both of the networks.
 They roam on T-Mobile and AT&T apparently, and this is like you buy a Galaxy Nexus for
 350, you buy one of these Sims and they have like $50 unlimited everything, but it caps
 you at two gig or something.
 Can you tether?
 Yeah, you can tether.
 Yeah, because you can buy a...
 Because you're just paying for the service.
 And they roam on T-Mobile and they can cross over to AT&T.
 This is the dream.
 That's the dream.
 I just described the dream.
 Where you buy an unlocked phone.
 You buy a phone, you buy your service and you're good to go.
 And you want to change your phone or your service like you're not contracted by some
 lame company to be stuck with their stuff or stuck with your phone or whatever.
 And this is happening.
 This is real.
 But I don't think they are...
 They're not big enough yet.
 No, definitely not big enough.
 They need to be big.
 But so what I'm saying is it's like all these guys know they can't compete against AT&T
 and Verizon at the top end of the market.
 Sprint keeps trying.
 So all the action right now is this bottom tier prepaid low end.
 It's kind of like the iPhone unlocked iPhone 4S without LTE is like...
 That's what T-Mobile is like.
 Buy an iPhone, unlock it and use it on network because it's better.
 Yeah, but does it have the bands to do T-Mobile 3G?
 Just the 3G, not the enhanced...
 Right.
 Right.
 It'll do Edge and some...
 That's not going to help me.
 Yeah.
 That doesn't help me at all.
 No, nobody wants that.
 Also, I don't want the old phone.
 Yeah.
 I want the new phone.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 But I mean, if this rumor, you know, there are all these rumors...
 Is Metro PCS getting the iPhone?
 There are some people...
 I don't know if Metro is getting it.
 Virgin Mobile has the iPhone.
 There's a lot of prepaid carriers getting the iPhone.
 Yeah, Virgin Mobile has an unlocked...
 Not unlocked, a contract free full priced iPhone.
 So it's 650 or whatever?
 Yeah, whatever it is, 500, 600 bucks.
 But...
 Yeah, Metro doesn't have the iPhone.
 But...
 What's the catch with these?
 I feel like I used to know some of the downsides of MVNOs, but they just sound like they all
 just died and they use the same...
 Well, Virgin and Boost didn't die, obviously.
 Virgin and Boost are back from the dead, but they never died.
 They never died.
 But that's what I'm saying.
 There was like a Christmas where everybody came out with all the MVNOs, and they had
 these bizarre MVNO commercials.
 Didn't MTV have one?
 Yep.
 And there was...
 What was that?
 Oh, the Helio...
 Oh, God.
 Helio.
 That was a thing.
 It was a whole thing.
 They had their phones, they had a service.
 And that was owned by SK Mobile, South Korean Mobile.
 What was it?
 Chris Mahanaka, Kwanzaa, whatever.
 That was the ad for an MVNO.
 Man, there was an MVNO heyday, but they're...
 The heyday was like six months.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 And all that.
 So Virgin and Boost got absorbed into Sprint as their low-cost prepaid offers.
 Boost is the only one that I know from back in the day that has stayed around.
 Boost kind of hung in there.
 What was the other one?
 It was very urban-flavored.
 They were going for the urban market unabashedly.
 Again, bordering...
 Like flair.
 Bordering on racist.
 It was...
 Jammed up.
 It's not Boost.
 Amped.
 Amped.
 Amped.
 Amped.
 I think Amped got rolled into Boost.
 It is Amped.
 It makes sense.
 Is Boost the one with the very disturbing commercial with the two pigs eating another
 pig?
 I don't know.
 You know what I'm talking about?
 I know what you're talking about.
 Man, this...
 What do the readers say?
 It'd be a no.
 It's commercials.
 They're just like...
 They're desperate.
 They're desperate.
 It's like the CW with this ad they had in Entertainment Weekly, which by the way, I
 want to make an appeal to the world.
 I'd really like to get one of these Entertainment Weeklys with the cell phone in it.
 So if you know where I can get one or you have one and you want to let it go for a reasonable
 price or even unreasonable...
 There's a cell phone in it.
 You don't know about this.
 No.
 They did a thousand copies of Entertainment Weekly with a CW ad that has a live Twitter
 feed in the ad, it looks like an embedded screen.
 But Lance Ulanoff and Christina Warren at Mashable opened up the magazine and it is
 a full-size Android smartphone with a lithium ion battery and a QWERTY keyboard inside without
 the casing and a 3G card.
 Just sitting in there getting a live...
 And it's Android.
 You can get to the Android part of the phone.
 That's awesome.
 Yeah.
 Anyhow, I want one very badly.
 I want one to take it apart to have the phone.
 I don't know why.
 No, you want it to be from Entertainment Weekly.
 As I'm reading the Tina Fey interview, I want to...
 I got that magazine at home and I was like, oh man.
 I saw the article and I was like, oh my God, this is so exciting.
 And then it was nothing.
 It was the limited edition.
 Are any of the iPad magazines have a...
 Because you know that would be a great place.
 No, because they're all PS.
 They have a digital magazine with a phone...
 An interactive phone inside of the digital magazine.
 I was thinking that you would open it up and there would be a physical phone somehow in
 the middle of the iPad.
 That has the digital magazine on it?
 No, it's just like a rotary phone.
 That's how they even add it into the...
 You pull it and you're like, you plug it into the wall.
 Enjoy this article.
 Call a friend about it.
 1-800-great article.
 1-800-hot arctic.
 Arty.
 Hot arty.
 1-800-hot arty.
 That's a whole different thing, man.
 I like that.
 I like hot arty.
 It's one of my favorite...
 Hot arty.
 Yeah.
 That's a thing, right?
 Hot article.
 Okay, anyhow.
 Anyhow, what were we...
 We were talking about some hot arty.
 We were talking about some hot arty.
 One way or another T-Mobile is going away.
 I mean, that's kind of the end result of...
 What if their desperate to go away?
 What if their desperate to go away?
 What if they become...
 Do you think they'll become Metro T-Mobile or something?
 No, I don't think...
 I think they'll pick one way.
 T-Mobile, PCS.
 T-Mobile, PCS.
 Honestly, I think...
 I think they'll become Metro T-Mobile.
 I think they'll become Metro T-Mobile.
 T-Mobile, PCS.
 Honestly, I think...
 I think the way that telecom wants to just be out of the United States.
 They desperately...
 I don't think they want anything to do with the market anymore.
 Much like the World War II retreat of the Germans.
 Yes.
 From the Russian...
 From the United States.
 From the Russian battle...
 From the Russian battle front.
 Yeah.
 And what is that?
 Homeland?
 Is that what it's called?
 The fatherland.
 No, no.
 The show on Showtime?
 Where we get invaded by another country.
 Oh, Homefront.
 Homefront.
 Is that what it's called?
 Is that Red Dawn?
 Red Dawn.
 Red Dawn.
 You're talking about the game.
 There is a game that's like the whole...
 It's Red Dawn, but the Koreans instead of the Russians.
 And you actually fight...
 Very disappointing game, by the way.
 But the new Red Dawn movie is Japanese now, right?
 Or Chinese?
 Or some Asian?
 It's the Koreans.
 Some Asian?
 The Koreans are the new cool enemy.
 Which Koreans?
 North...
 What do you mean, which Koreans?
 It's guys from Samsung.
 They're like throwing old Galaxy phones at people.
 Like quickly manufacture more crap.
 Like what?
 They're like...
 The North Koreans.
 The bad Koreans.
 The bad Koreans.
 I mean the bad.
 I mean bad.
 If you live in North Korea and you're watching this first off, congratulations.
 You must be very well off and very lucky.
 If we can say anything to the North Korean audience right now.
 If we can say, hey, hey, hey.
 Congratulations.
 But anyhow, look, you know what?
 They're just people.
 But some people, some of those people are bad.
 Just mal...
 And the rest of them are malnourished.
 No, God.
 Well, they are malnourished.
 Can we move on?
 I mean, North Korea is a nightmare.
 It's true.
 No, the stats, which is that after the split, the South Koreans are on average taller.
 I mean, people are being abused by a ruthless dictator in North Korea.
 They're part of the...
 I'm trying to defend North Korea.
 They're part of the axis of evil.
 How is that defending North Korea?
 Axis of evil.
 In which world is pointing out?
 Axis of evil.
 There's an axis somewhere.
 And the part of the axis is evil.
 No, the whole axis is evil.
 The part of it is North Korea.
 The terrifying fascist state of North Korea.
 It's not a state, it's a country.
 Half a country.
 If you want to get tactical.
 Anyhow.
 How is it half a country?
 Well, there's North and South.
 They're not the same country.
 Well, but you know, they're all Korea.
 Yeah.
 North and South Carolina are half.
 North and South Dakota.
 Are they not both of the Dakota?
 Of the Dakotas?
 They are.
 They're referred to as the Dakotas.
 Well, but they're Dakota in nature.
 Dakota in nature.
 Dakota-rific.
 They're Dakota-ified.
 Dakota-ian.
 Dakota-ian in nature.
 Both.
 I will.
 Undeniable.
 Anyhow.
 Now, this is a really good question.
 I'm going to be honest.
 I'm going to say this.
 I'm going to say this.
 The Dakota in nature, both undeniable.
 Anyhow.
 So what else happened with gadgets this week?
 Metro PCS.
 I feel like if we keep on coming back to Metro PCS and T-Mobile, we'll keep on going other
 cool ways.
 Because we don't want to talk about it so badly.
 I just want to apologize if we've been talking over each other.
 I know that you don't like that.
 We're all of the Dakotas here.
 We're Dakota-ian in nature.
 All right.
 Just kidding.
 Let's keep going.
 Well, you review things.
 By the way, I've been to North Dakota.
 I've been to South.
 My dad is born in North Dakota.
 Well, I can't talk to you.
 I can't talk to you.
 Oh.
 You typical Southern Dakotians.
 Dekotites.
 I don't know.
 Dekoites.
 Dekoite.
 I don't know.
 I just let it go.
 If you're watching this from one of the Dakotas right now.
 Good job.
 First of all, congratulations.
 If you're watching this from North Dakota, first off, you must be very worried about
 the fact that you're not going to be able to get a TV.
 You're doing very well to do.
 Congratulations.
 You got a TV.
 Wow.
 Remember I was making a joke about North Korea?
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 Same joke.
 Yeah.
 Yeah, but now it sounds amazing.
 Now it hit home.
 Yeah.
 I'm sorry, North Dakota.
 I'm sure you have a TV.
 My dad's from North Dakota.
 Well, I rest my case.
 Really?
 Yeah.
 He used to tell this story about how they had a cat and they didn't... They didn't
 buy... It was the biggest news in all of North Dakota.
 A cat in North Dakota.
 Freaking.
 They wouldn't buy cat litter, so he'd have to go out in the winter with a shovel and
 pick up the frozen ground to get dirt for cat litter.
 That sounds like a story about cheapness, not really a story about North Dakota.
 Well, but it was cold, so the ground was hard.
 And that's a lesson to be learned about North Dakota.
 Cold, hard ground.
 Kind of like North Korea.
 Yeah.
 Anyhow- Cats.
 In vain.
 North Dakotas.
 What's our next topic, Neil?
 I don't even know how to... You reviewed the Kindle Paperwhite.
 Paperwhite.
 What are your favorite books about both the Dakotas and Korea available on the Kindle
 Paperwhite?
 I'll tell you what I did a lot of during my Paperwhite review was read up on North Korea.
 Yeah.
 And North Dakota.
 No, I had this very... I was reading your review.
 I have very similar... I got mine yesterday.
 Oh, yeah, you got it.
 Two days ago.
 How do you feel?
 I like it, but it was funny.
 Did you have that moment?
 I was like, I want to read a bunch of stuff.
 Oh, yeah.
 I had that moment.
 I had a moment, which I mentioned at the end of my review, which is like I was in bed reading
 and I was like, yeah, this might be the way I read for the rest of my life.
 Yeah.
 And that could be my... I'm going to keep buying books, but when I read, I feel like
 this is how I'm going to do it.
 And then it kind of passed because I was like, wow, that's a little ridiculous.
 There it is.
 There it is right there.
 Do you have one of those clip-on Bendy lights?
 Only losers have those.
 Only losers.
 Huge losers.
 I mean, Becky literally-
 I definitely bought one of those the first month I left the internet.
 I rest my case.
 Becky bought me one to taunt me.
 I rest my case?
 Really?
 Straight up.
 She's like, you have to use this now because you can't have the light on anymore.
 I was like, I'm not using it.
 She's like, you're going to use it.
 It was literally like a threat.
 The paperwhite solve all that?
 Yeah, it's great.
 Well, the paperwhite, it's got its own light.
 You understand how it works.
 Yeah, yeah.
 I saw it at the office.
 I should have brought it in.
 I'll say this though.
 As far as e-readers go, in my opinion, I'm just recapping the review now.
 In my opinion, this is the best e-reader on the market.
 Oh, no question.
 Yeah.
 Real talk.
 I just think that the software is really pretty impressive.
 The screen looks great.
 It's higher resolution than previous models.
 It has access to Amazon's library, which is massive.
 I mean, in my opinion, the best library for content.
 It just feels good.
 It's a good design.
 It's got everything going for it.
 It just feels-
 Let me ask you this question.
 Do you actually have the light on all the time?
 Because I just turned mine off during the day.
 No.
 Yeah, you don't keep it on all the time.
 No, but they're all deep into, you're going to leave this on all the time.
 Don't worry about it.
 But they did give you settings, so you can do whatever you want.
 Yeah, but you're talking about maybe the majority of people will leave it on all the time.
 I mean, Amazon said during the event, Jeff Bezos was like, people are just going to leave
 this on all the time.
 What I hope they're doing is tracking what everybody's doing, and then they'll have a
 specific number of the average percentage of the light during different times of the
 day that people are using-
 You hope they're tracking what everybody's doing.
 Yes.
 Instead of just installing an ambient light sensor.
 So your goal to automatically adjust the light is-
 No, I'm not saying-
 Constant surveillance.
 I don't want them to-
 As opposed to just knowing how bright it is.
 No, I'm not saying-
 Big brother is watching.
 To use that data to automatically adjust the light.
 I'm just saying use that data and then make a cool chart that I can look at.
 You want an infographic of how often the light is on and at what level.
 At what level over the course of the day on average.
 Well, I would venture to guess that at nighttime the light level is going to be higher.
 And then in the daytime it'll be lower.
 But exactly how high?
 Who cares?
 I care.
 I'm just saying, so they changed the-
 I have the old $79 Kindle, which I really like.
 And they changed the display.
 I think they changed the surface of the display.
 It's still matte and it has kind of a rough finish.
 I don't leave fingerprints on it because it's a touch display.
 But it has more glare.
 It's very strange to me.
 It does have a little bit more-
 It's shinier.
 But it's not glaring.
 But not like this.
 It's shinier, but not like so much that you really, maybe you notice it a lot.
 This is a matte screen.
 Not really.
 This is the matte.
 It is matte, but it's not as shiny as this.
 Right.
 It's not that.
 No, it's like a rough finish.
 Actually, this is matte.
 Sorry, but to back up, I agree that this is a matte screen.
 There's no question there.
 But not as reflective as this matte screen.
 This is relatively reflective.
 I can see a perfect reflection of the keyboard in the side here.
 And so it's not like that.
 But it is a little bit more reflective, you're right.
 But you were saying.
 Yeah.
 Go on.
 It's an interesting change.
 And also, they got rid of the buttons.
 Yeah.
 And I really like the page turn button.
 I hate buttons.
 Really?
 So you're happy with it?
 I'm like Jobs.
 The fewer buttons, the better.
 You got to swipe.
 Swipe or tap.
 Swipe or tap.
 I picked one up at the office.
 It took me a long time.
 I forgot that they put the power button on the edge.
 I literally just couldn't figure out how to turn it on for a while.
 I actually didn't mention this, but the power button is the most annoying part.
 Because I've never seen a tutorial video on this, all of the usages were completely...
 Like I was tapping around trying to do anything with it.
 Oh, you got to tap in the middle to get the menu up and stuff like that.
 All of that is just the top.
 They have a tutorial when you first booted it.
 Right.
 Yeah.
 I'm just saying, it's not totally obvious.
 When you hand it to your stupid kid, they might take a little time.
 No, the kid will be like this and then it'll work.
 So it'll be fine.
 Here's the interesting thing about the PaperWet.
 I've had it for two or three days now.
 And my use of the Nexus 7 has plummeted.
 See that's interesting because-
 My use of the iPad has gone back up.
 I went right back to the...
 After I was done testing, as much as I like it, I'm used to reading on the Nexus 7 now.
 And I have to say, I long for the crispness and the evenness and the cleanness of the
 Nexus 7 display.
 Or the iPad display.
 But I read with the Nexus 7 because it's book-sized.
 Whereas the iPad is gigantic.
 Yeah.
 I picked up the iPad the other day to read and I was like, why is this so gigantic?
 The iPad, it doesn't matter unless the lights are entirely off.
 If there's any light anywhere within the-
 It's very reflective.
 It just glares at you.
 I mean, I have to say, I usually read in bed before I go to sleep and I have a light next
 to the bed.
 I have a table lamp.
 And I leave that on.
 And it's not a problem with the Nexus 7 at least, that light is not an issue.
 Certainly it's shinier.
 It's shiny.
 It's a glossy display.
 Not as high gloss as the iPad though, in my opinion.
 I think there's just less of it.
 That's an interesting theory.
 I mean, it's possible.
 I think it's Gorilla Glass.
 I don't think it is.
 What?
 On the Nexus 7?
 I don't think it's Gorilla Glass, is it?
 I think it is.
 Is it advertised as Gorilla Glass?
 I'm just pretty sure.
 Gorilla Glass is like, it's sneaky now.
 They just put it on everything.
 So basically, you like that wine, you drink it out of a Gorilla Glass.
 Yeah, it's Gorilla Glass.
 Is it?
 Wait, no, update says Gizmodo.
 Gizmodo got it wrong and then updated.
 What did they say?
 I'm sure many people got it wrong.
 They just have an update.
 It's not Gorilla Glass.
 Yeah, update.
 Actually, there's no Gorilla Glass on the Nexus 7.
 There's just scratch resistant glass.
 Yeah.
 It sounds like a Google PR reach out.
 So we're like close to...
 Close to the end of this Vergecast.
 Perfect.
 So we're done.
 Let's get out of here.
 Screens.
 I just feel like this has been going on forever and the paperwhite is just better, but it's
 still like...
 I mean, it's...
 Here's the interesting thing about the paperwhite.
 You still need a tablet and a Kindle.
 I remember when the last set of Kindles came out, there was like this endless discussion
 that we all had.
 Like, am I going to get the $70 one?
 Am I going to get the Touch one?
 Should I update at all?
 What's the point of this?
 Our entire staff ordered paperwhites.
 There was no question whether they're going to do it.
 Yeah, but those people are normal.
 No, but like it was...
 They can't be used as an example of normalcy.
 But that rarely happens.
 It rarely happens.
 Everybody got a Nexus 7.
 Everybody got a Nexus 7.
 Yeah, but that was an equally, I think, momentous product for that category.
 Like that was...
 The Nexus 7 is the best Android tablet.
 I think this is the best reader.
 It's very strange to even see our staff just chase after a product like this and be so
 excited that they're getting your product to shipping notices.
 I mean, Laura does keep updating me on her shipping status.
 Yeah, and like, she's tweeting about it last night.
 She's very upset that she doesn't have hers yet.
 Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's one of those things where this is...
 It's pretty clear that this is an expression of an e-reader, like as a category that is
 like it's hit a pinnacle and it's going to iterate and iterate and maybe there'll be
 another big jump.
 But the last ones, the last set of Kindles, they all iterated to this like, this is what
 they look like.
 This is what the screens are like.
 And then this is the big jump.
 And I feel like there's something too about a gadget that you want and that you'll use
 that is not like the do everything gadget.
 I think that there's like, it's like when I see like a really nice new camera, like
 some of the like as it had been introduced recently, I'm like, yeah, I really want that.
 And what I...
 Even though it doesn't have 3G, you still want it.
 Yeah.
 And what I'll get...
 And I know what I want that for is just a separate thing.
 It's a single use product.
 And you know, like it's not...
 I see that fitting into my life in a way that like another tablet or another phone can't
 or won't because it's just like an iterative thing where like, oh, your phone's like a
 little bit better than the last one, but like it's exactly the same in every other way.
 So I think with an e-reader, when there's like an actual, you're like, oh cool, it's
 backlit.
 I mean, Barnes and Noble got to this first, but I don't think they did as good a job.
 But when you see this and you're like, oh yeah, this makes sense.
 I need this.
 I want it.
 I can use this in my life.
 And there isn't really another thing that will do what this does.
 Like I can take it in direct sunlight.
 I can take it at night and read it in bed in the dark.
 The battery lasts forever.
 It plugs into Amazon's, you know, all my books are already there.
 I use Amazon for both of my purchases.
 You know what I find actually really interesting, and I think this is really highlighted by
 the new Kindle Flyers.
 I don't mind the ads on this thing at all.
 Although I will say it's kind of hilarious that it will only show me ads for AT&T, like
 it's taunting me.
 Yeah.
 They're really different than...
 You're not interacting with this device as much as you interact with a tablet.
 It's just a totally different experience.
 But you know, I kind of realized yesterday, I was looking at it.
 It's like, even when it's kind of like lit up and it's just sitting there and it's like
 has an ad and like it's fading away.
 It's like, I'm so used to print stuff in my house that has ads on it.
 And this display looks mostly like print.
 So it's like that fits into a box that I know about.
 With the Kindle Fire, it's like, baaah, like I'm looking at a computer screen.
 It's also that it's supposed to be a thing that a tablet is like, you could do your email
 here, you're browsing the web and you're talking to people on Twitter and you know, it's a
 computer and you kind of don't want to add when you're like doing stuff on your computer.
 But like, it's not like showing you, you're not like, you know, chapter three of a George
 RR Martin book.
 It's like, have you seen the new?
 You know, it's like, you're not like in the middle of a book getting an ad.
 You know what's weird is that, so I've been watching a little bit of TV and DVRing with
 my computer.
 DVRing on your computer?
 That sounds like an internet situation.
 How does that sound like an ad?
 It's like, it's recorded to a hard drive off of a digital TV channel.
 Digital.
 And you can, you can skip, you can skip 30 seconds ahead at a time and so you can pass
 over commercials, which is awesome.
 And like, I'm so used to the, on the web, you cannot, there's so many unskippable ads.
 There's just so many things that like, they like, like, no, you're not allowed to skip
 this.
 You can tab over to something else while you wait, but you cannot skip this.
 Well, they don't have the, I mean, they don't have the people who, I mean, the web doesn't
 get to have the people who don't skip because they either aren't DVRing it or don't care.
 Well, the offline equivalent is like, you're trapped.
 DVDs with like unskippable trailers and all the, all the insane piracy warnings that are
 completely unskippable and they sit there for like 15 to 30 seconds.
 That just makes you want to pirate more.
 Really, really, really.
 You know what I'm thinking about while watching this unskippable pirate message?
 I want to hurt you.
 Yeah.
 How can I get to you?
 At an FBI.
 I want to hurt you FBI.
 Yeah.
 Cop cars waiting for me downstairs.
 I want to hurt the FBI bad.
 I want to hit it where it hurts.
 It's just funny cause it's like, why is it the FBI?
 That's my domestic terrorist impersonation.
 I'm going to get those guys where it hurts.
 Wherever that is.
 I don't know.
 I'm going to get them in North Dakota probably.
 I'm going to get them in North Dakota.
 So this leads right into the next thing.
 It does?
 Absolutely.
 Well, not that.
 So we're having this conversation about readers and you went back to your Nexus 7.
 For me, it's like, I'm not using it as much.
 You're done.
 You hate the Nexus 7.
 But rumors endlessly this week and last.
 Rumors a swirling.
 Of the iPad mini.
 iPad miniature.
 Walshe Journal said it went into production this week.
 Seven point how big?
 No, it's bigger than that.
 This is weird.
 It's like 7.85 or something.
 I said seven point how big?
 I wasn't saying seven point something.
 Could be seven point.
 Yeah.
 Well, that's the 11.
 Seven point eleven.
 Well, that's the rumor.
 What is seven point eight?
 Seven point eight five.
 Same as these are the rumors.
 So this has been rumored for since the Nexus 7 was introduced.
 Since I left the internet.
 Literally.
 No, no, no.
 It's been rumored literally since the day, since the day that Google is going to announce
 the day before Google is going to announce their seven inch.
 It's like Cupertino started their photocopiers.
 Yeah.
 I'm going to let this.
 Nice.
 I'm going to let that just hang in the air.
 So I know I think they probably had it in the works before that.
 Yeah, probably.
 But they is probably convenient to tell everybody about it.
 So the rumors are it's going to be.
 Well, the rumors are seven point eight five.
 Yeah.
 Same resolution as the iPad two.
 Which makes sense.
 Perfect.
 68.
 So you assume things will just be scaled down.
 Yeah, it'll just be iPad apps with like slightly closer together.
 Right.
 And, you know, there are some other rumors if they're having problems making it with
 supply.
 I mean, like, there's just rumors.
 There's always a rumor that they're having trouble with supply chains now.
 Yeah.
 Which is funny because usually the rumors are the supply chains is like, here's here's
 a picture of the product.
 Here's a rumor.
 So we've seen a few of the pictures of the supply chain.
 Give it to them.
 We've seen.
 We've seen like, I mean, essentially it's, I mean, based on whatever kind of weird mockups
 we've seen, which, you know, now we've learned are most likely true.
 So here's my question about this.
 And I believe this is true.
 Yes.
 Well, I'm assuming we'll see it very soon.
 Yes.
 What is this event going to be like?
 I mean, like, we already we've come off a month in which we've been talking about the
 iPhone five saying they didn't have a compelling software story for the iPhone five.
 Yeah.
 And they've been completely dinged on maps like left and right.
 Yeah.
 To the point where they've had to apologize about it.
 Have we talked about the apology?
 Maybe they'll come out with a new.
 We haven't talked about the apology.
 They apologized?
 Yeah.
 Tim Cook issued an apology for mentioning that.
 They didn't publish the apology in the Wall Street Journal?
 I missed a couple of issues.
 Okay.
 Yeah.
 Tim Cook had to apologize.
 Hold on.
 Let's not get derailed.
 Let's finish your point.
 Anyway, but so they're in this.
 Let's not get derailed.
 That would be unlike us.
 Our North Dakota viewers won't stand for it.
 Our North Korean viewers won't stand for it.
 All one of them.
 So many jokes there.
 No, I mean, they're just in this place.
 They're as embattled as Apple can be.
 Yeah.
 Right?
 It's not very embattled.
 They're just in a moment of criticism.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Prey.
 Yeah.
 It's prey.
 I don't think we're quite at prey.
 We're not there.
 I don't think we're there.
 They're still selling a lot of phones.
 Great.
 Great wired issue.
 What do you stand on stage and say when you have an iPad that presumably runs the same
 software?
 Yeah, but the maps don't matter on an iPad.
 The iPad is the smallest.
 Who's going navigating with their iPad?
 No, no, I'm not saying that.
 The same jerks who are taking photos with it.
 If you're already in a place where it's like, okay, well, for this moment, for this period
 in time, the bloom's off the rose.
 Why couldn't they make a weather app for the iPad?
 Why didn't they just make a bigger weather app?
 Or a widget.
 Would it have taken that many resources?
 Did iOS 6 add-
 They have a weather widget.
 No.
 Add anything to the iPad?
 They do have a weather widget, I think.
 Don't they?
 Do they not?
 They send a notification.
 Wait, but do they have it on the iPad?
 Can someone tell me?
 I don't remember.
 Can you use Siri on the iPad yet?
 These people will tell me.
 Yeah, you can.
 Okay.
 Because before it was just voice notification.
 iPad 3.
 iPad 3.
 New iPad.
 Yep.
 So the event is going to look like Apple's going to say-
 Wait, is the event been announced?
 No, but I'm guessing if there is an event, this is what it looks.
 You're asking what it looks like.
 No weather widget on the iPad.
 No weather widget.
 Well, that's stupid and dumb.
 So I think it'll look something like this.
 Tim Cook comes out to thunderous applause.
 And he's like spikes a small iPad and walks out on stage.
 He says, it's good to see you again.
 It's been a long time.
 Makes a joke about how they just had an event.
 Everybody gafas.
 He says, it's been a crazy month and a half for us.
 We released, we brought out the new version of iOS X.
 Our customers love it.
 Yeah, 100 million.
 Over 80% of our customers have already updated and they are loving it.
 100 million people.
 100 million.
 Well, they'll be over that probably, but 125 million people and counting.
 How about Android?
 They're still trying to get the gingerbread up there or whatever.
 He won't make a joke about it.
 He'll say, we released a new iPhone, our most successful iPhone ever.
 Our biggest first weekend sales in the history of the iPhone and counting.
 To date we've sold, he'll give a number that's insane.
 And we're in five countries.
 20 million.
 We're in 28 countries now.
 We've sold 25 million phones in the span of, how many have they sold do you think so far?
 We know they sold how many in the first week?
 5 million?
 Yeah.
 So let's say they've been selling, I don't know, probably about 15, 20 at this point.
 There'll be like 25.
 Sure.
 25 million iPhone 5s.
 That's a lot.
 That's like a quarter.
 And we've continued selling the iPhone 4s at a great price, customers love it.
 Has the full iOS 6 up to any high.
 You're dancing, but you're seeing here.
 No, no, no.
 Well, they don't need to say it.
 He'll be like, where's the boom now, Neelai?
 They don't need to say that.
 Our customers just love this stuff.
 Developers have-
 The best iPod Nano ever.
 Developers have just eaten up the new software.
 They love the new screen size.
 They're doing amazing things to show off a few great apps, some music apps.
 I want a picture where it's like with the 4s, you can only see like most of your baby.
 They've done that picture.
 But with the iPhone 5, you can see-
 See all of the baby.
 The entire baby's body.
 They'll definitely show pictures from the launch day of the iPhone where people running
 out of the store with cheering and clapping and whatever.
 And they'll say, Andy, we have something great, new for you today.
 Something we've never done before.
 And then they'll talk about the company's level of books and reading and magazines and
 how they wanted to create it.
 They thought, how could they create the most perfect experience for reading?
 Does he have to engage-
 The iPad is great for doing lots of different things.
 The full size iPad is great for doing lots of different things.
 But when you're in bed or when you're on a train or when you're out, you want something
 that's a little bit, you can slip into a small bag, whatever.
 And then you know, people will cheer.
 There'll be a hands-on.
 And a week later, there'll be reviews of it.
 A couple questions.
 It's going to be good.
 Yeah.
 One-
 Presumably.
 The man's might not be that good on it.
 Is he going to pitch it as something that you should get in addition to your iPad and
 iPhone?
 This is a tough question.
 I don't think they have to say how you'll buy it.
 They don't have to tell you how to buy it.
 They just need to tell you what the price is.
 With the iPad-
 And let you approach the cash register.
 When the iPad came out, though, they were very careful to say where that belonged.
 Well, they said to make a case for it.
 I don't think you have to make a case for an iPad.
 I think you can assume that if someone will pay $300 for an iPod touch, there's another
 person next to them who will pay $300 for a smaller iPad.
 I think that's where you are.
 By the way, he may mention maps.
 I think they can do something.
 I think they can do something and say, you know, we had our biggest iPhone launch ever.
 You know, iOS takes, they'll say, you know, it wasn't perfect.
 We had some issues with maps, but our team is, they'll show a room full of guys working
 on, you know, cartographers working on-
 Is he going to make the like, you all got here today somehow joke?
 Yeah, probably something like that.
 My pastor made that joke the other day.
 I used it to navigate to the, you're my buena today.
 Yeah.
 Anyhow, whatever.
 Wait, and so my other question is, is he going to engage the Steve Jobs quote about a seven-inch
 screen?
 Not at all.
 Are you kidding me?
 Nobody remembers that.
 That's ancient history.
 That's like two years ago, but is he going to say like, we solved the problem on a seven-inch?
 No, they don't have to say they solved anything.
 No, what they will say with guaranteed, what they'll say is here's the Kindle Fire.
 Here's an XS7.
 They run big smartphone apps.
 We want to bring the power of the iPad to a smaller thing.
 And our great iPad apps.
 I think they'll also make mention of the fact that this is not just the way they kind of
 talked about the four inch screen and they have ads for it about the thumb, which are
 bullshit.
 You know what I mean?
 Because like the thumb thing is like, well, some people's thumbs do that, but some people's
 don't.
 What are the thumbs do?
 They're there.
 It's like they're showing the thumb goes here and it goes here.
 And then they show like the phone, this phone, they're like, it goes here and it goes here.
 Like they're showing how it still fits your thumb.
 Basically.
 Apple made ads.
 Yep.
 Yes.
 For thumb.
 Yes.
 Yep.
 Voiced by Jeff Daniels.
 No way.
 Yes.
 Okay.
 But I think that what they'll say is, you know, there's other people in this market.
 See Jeff Daniels in Looper?
 Just stop talking about Looper.
 I haven't seen it.
 Please stop ruining it.
 Stop spoiling it.
 It's a movie.
 Stop spoiling it with actors.
 When you get to the end of the movie.
 Shut up.
 Stop.
 Start over.
 And then you kill yourself.
 I do think they'll say, you know, everyone's trying to make a seven inch.
 Yeah.
 They think seven inch is the right size.
 But we've done some research.
 Oh God.
 We've done some research and you know what we've discovered?
 Seven inch is not the right size.
 Yeah.
 But you know what it is?
 It's 7.8.
 7.8.
 5.
 3.
 3.
 That's the exact screen size you need to be able to do everything you can do on a full
 size iPad right in the palm of your hand.
 And then a picture of a baby.
 You're like shut up and take my money right now.
 Yeah.
 I just can't.
 Like I'm trying to imagine what like the Johnny Ive design video is.
 Like, you know, like what we wanted to do was figure it out.
 Like I'm just trying to imagine.
 How could we take all of the pal of the iPad and put it into a small iPad?
 That's like a parody.
 Just saying that makes it a parody.
 Would you get an iPad 7?
 Of course.
 You'll buy one.
 Would you?
 There's iPads everywhere.
 Shut up and take my money.
 Would I get one?
 I don't know yet.
 Would it replace a Nexus 7 for you?
 I mean you do your email on your Nexus 7 right?
 I love the email on the Nexus 7 because it's Gmail.
 It's like native Gmail and I think it's wonderful.
 But the iPad has a lot going for it.
 I do think it's too big for some things.
 I like the size of the Nexus 7.
 I like the size of the Kindle Fire.
 I thought the Kindle Fire was mediocre entrant to the market.
 The new Kindle Fire.
 I'd be very interested in it.
 I mean it's just going to be a smaller version of the iPad right?
 The iPad is very good.
 It's like Apple is trolling us.
 Like it's just a bigger iPhone.
 It's just a smaller iPad.
 What does it matter?
 Dance monkeys.
 The iPod Touch is...
 What's the difference?
 The iPhone 4S is just a smaller version of the iPhone 5 without LTE.
 The iPhone 5 is a slightly larger version.
 Sure.
 I get it.
 I understand all of what you're saying.
 The iPod Touch is just an iPhone without...
 Have you ever read the story of Goldilocks?
 The iPod Touch is an iPhone without the radio.
 The iPad is a larger iPhone.
 The MacBook Air is an iPad with a keyboard.
 It's a circle of life.
 No I don't know.
 I mean but don't you think people want a smaller iPad?
 I think they probably want a smaller one.
 If they are going to try to sell us one, they know that people want a...
 I think I would get a...
 It's not like I would replace my iPad 3, but when I felt like my iPad 3 was now obsolete
 for some reason and I needed to get a new iPad, I'd get a 7.
 I really wish they'd call the iPad 3 the new...
 The iPad 3.
 Yeah.
 I really wish they had not called it the new iPad.
 I just don't think it's...
 It's just deeply confusing.
 I just don't think it's helpful.
 Are they going to call it the iPad Mini?
 So the two things I've heard, iPad Mini and iPad Air are the two...
 But iPad Air suggests the first iPad or the iPad...
 It's fat and chubby.
 Yeah.
 That doesn't sound right to me.
 The current iPad is extremely thin.
 Right.
 So I'm saying...
 So I don't think iPad Air...
 I think iPad Mini makes the most sense.
 iPad Lite.
 No.
 iPad Touch?
 Yeah.
 That would be confusing.
 That would be really confusing.
 The iPad Touch.
 The iPod Touch?
 No, it's got an A. What?
 Look, it'll happen.
 It's me at the store.
 You're right.
 And people are going to buy them.
 It's just...
 The what?
 The what?
 The iPad Touch.
 It's just I'm used to Apple making these...
 The what?
 The iPod Touch?
 These deep cases for their products.
 Like here's some stuff it can do that it could never do before.
 And it feels like with the iPhone 5...
 They don't need to do that.
 It was like we gave it a bigger screen LTE and it's like great.
 This is a smaller screen in LTE.
 Would you buy one of these on a contract?
 I think they put 3G in there.
 No, no.
 Because they don't have contracts.
 They're contract free.
 That's true.
 Right.
 So would I buy one not on contract with LTE?
 Yeah, that would be attractive.
 Plus, so do you think it would be...
 Like if the Nexus 7 had the option to do LTE...
 Yeah.
 It would be amazing.
 There are rumors of that swirling in the ether.
 Well, but I'm saying like that would be...
 I would be very excited about that if there's an iPad that has like amazing battery life
 and LTE and runs all the iPad apps.
 Because what's great is you can share your data between all your devices with AT&T's
 new...
 Share plan.
 Well, that's not what they use for the iPads.
 Yeah.
 It's just like a pay as you go.
 Essentially a pay as you go.
 That's the job.
 Yeah.
 Well, you got to learn what's up.
 No, but you can bundle...
 It doesn't matter.
 The point is, damn it.
 Sorry not to cut you off.
 It's not your son.
 But it's like whatever.
 I don't care.
 I'm looking...
 I'm reading the verge.
 I'm reading the verge.com.
 We just broke some news.
 What did we break?
 Well, we did hands-on with the Scion Lumia 920 for AT&T.
 I've just successfully trolled the podcast to be about the Lumia 920.
 Scion?
 There's a Scion Lumia?
 Scion.
 Scion?
 Scion.
 Scion the color?
 Yeah.
 It's blue.
 Scion.
 Okay.
 Not like S-C-I-O-N, the car company.
 Yeah.
 Scion.
 No.
 Correct.
 It would be like shiny, like dark purple with blue lights along the side of it.
 That would be cool actually.
 A little spinner on the back.
 Yeah, like a rim on the back somehow.
 Phone rims.
 PhoneRims.com.
 Check it out.
 New website.
 New enterprise.
 You're welcome, internet.
 PhoneRims.com.
 You're welcome.
 PhoneRims.com.
 SpinnyRibs for phone.
 So this can take us right into...
 Hold on a second.
 With the LED light.
 Are we done with the iPad mini?
 I think so.
 It's going to happen.
 I think Apple has to make a case for it in a better way.
 I don't think they do.
 I think the case has been made.
 I think people want smaller tablets.
 And I think all they have to say is, it's smaller.
 We wanted to make the best tablet for reading, the reading experience.
 And then again, they don't want to say you can't do everything with it, right?
 Right.
 What's the justification for the iPod touch?
 What do you mean?
 It's an iPhone without the phone.
 No, I don't think people think of it that way.
 I think they think of it as like a game player they give to their kids and have to buy a
 phone contract.
 Okay.
 You can just buy one.
 So let's think of what could be justifications for a seven.
 Do you give this to your kids?
 It's really an eight inch.
 It's closer to eight inches than seven inches.
 I think you give it to your kids.
 I think that's a good one.
 For their smaller hands.
 Smaller, dumber hands.
 Finally something they can swipe.
 Yeah.
 Something that'll respond to their desperate swipes.
 I'm sure they will come up with a case for it.
 But like, I just feel like I came out of this iPhone thing thinking they didn't change the
 software enough.
 The highlight feature of their software of iOS 6.
 Maybe this will be, maybe this will be, hold on.
 Maybe this will be, they're like, we had some stuff we were working on, some software.
 We couldn't do it in iOS 6.
 We didn't have ready for that launch.
 And we're introducing it with the new iPad.
 Maybe like one app.
 Maybe an update to the iBooks.
 A weather app.
 An iPad update.
 But we agree that, yeah, probably an iBooks update.
 But we agree that this will be ready for, if they do introduce it this month, which
 is the rumor, that it will be for holiday shopping.
 Without question.
 And they're going to sell a ton of them.
 Yeah.
 Like just.
 They'll sell a ton of them.
 What would really be impressive is that they can do a price point that's like, you don't
 expect it.
 Like the original iPad was one of those things where when they introduced it and they said
 $499, you were like, what is going on?
 Because the expectation was it's got to be like.
 $1000.
 And by the way, seeded by Apple to the Wall Street Journal.
 Yeah.
 But I think that the expectation here is probably like, I mean, if they could do it for $200,
 that would be insane.
 Yeah.
 If Apple could do a $200 iPad, it would just be.
 It'll be $250.
 I mean, we don't know.
 Why wouldn't it be $200?
 Because they have another product that's $200?
 No, I mean, I think that that's what they can make it for.
 It's expensive.
 I mean, does it matter?
 Like.
 It's just a blow money.
 I mean, can't they?
 No.
 For a little bit?
 What do they, what does it cost them to build an iPad?
 $5.
 No, it costs like $160 or something.
 I don't know.
 To build an iPad.
 I don't trust any of those.
 I mean, who knows?
 You can't, you're just in speculation.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 Here's what it costs.
 It's like the guy at iSupply is like $300.
 Like it makes no sense.
 I was going to say joint.
 Oh, I thought you like put something in his nose.
 Yeah.
 Well, you probably doing that too.
 Yeah.
 Weed.
 Coke.
 The guy at iSupply has no idea what he's doing.
 Probably doing that.
 He's trying to smoke weed.
 He's trying to smoke the cocaine and start the weed.
 How could he possibly guess a number?
 Hold on.
 Wait a second.
 Go ahead.
 You know how much it costs to make an iPad?
 No.
 It doesn't matter.
 They're making money off of it.
 Yeah.
 Like, do you think Apple put their like $200 in there?
 Yeah.
 I mean, I think that's what they're going to do.
 They're going to put $200 in there.
 They're going to put $200 in there.
 They're going to put $200 in there.
 They're going to put $200 in there.
 They're going to put $200 in there.
 Well, obviously Amazon feels comfortable doing like the $200 tablets because they're
 either breaking, not breaking even or close or just breaking.
 But they sell a bunch of stuff.
 But you know, and Apple has said this before, they refuse to sell things that add a loss.
 Um, but, but there's, they are going to sell a lot of software and books, especially on
 these devices.
 So that's the important thing.
 That's right.
 All right.
 What's the, what are we segueing into?
 Uh, well, you have two choices.
 You two, you stand across North Dakota and South Dakota.
 We can talk about, uh, Ellis's report, which is the messaging war between Apple and Facebook,
 which is actually my favorite feature of iOS six is the unified I message between the computer
 and the phone, which is great.
 Yep.
 Or we can talk about windows phone eight and what's going on.
 There's all kinds of stuff going on in this funny today.
 Gamblers choice, smugglers dilemma, smugglers dilemma.
 What does smuggles sounds like a really weird video game.
 Like a really bad episode of night rider or Miami five.
 Yeah.
 Like the rock off of like the 50 cent game dilemma is what happens, uh, right before
 smugglers blues, which I believe is actually like smugglers, what smugglers blues, which
 I believe is a name of a song from the soundtrack of Miami vice.
 Can you just look that up?
 Thanks.
 I'm going to go with windows phone eight or windows eight.
 What did you say?
 Windows phone eight, windows phone eight.
 There were, it's there, uh, uh, there's so much anger towards me about windows phone
 eight.
 What'd you do now?
 I'm just living.
 I'm just living.
 A lot of people really don't want me to write the review.
 There was a petition today.
 There was a petition that we, uh, that we struck down that what happened ruthlessly
 struck down like Josh and review quieted the voice.
 He can't talk nice comment.
 I think I, I think I might've ended up deleting the thread honestly.
 I don't remember.
 It's just like this stuff, like on our sites, like these guys who like freak out about me,
 like I'm a, somebody accused me of trying to date rape the Lumia.
 So early in the actual form.
 I mean, there's been a, there's a lot going on.
 So early in the week, can I voice my theory about the windows phone eight fanboys?
 They all work at Microsoft.
 No, well maybe, but I think that what happened is the Nokia, there used to be very vehement,
 angry, weird Nokia fanboys that were like the fins, the fins.
 They were sure that like every time we wrote anything negative about Symbian or Nokia that
 we were, our goal was ultimate goal was to bring down the economy of, of, of Finland
 and the finished people.
 And I've succeeded and I think we've, you know, mission accomplished.
 Where's my banner?
 Uh, but, and I think that what's happened is they've like moved over to, to windows
 phone and because of Nokia and the, and now it's like this for the forces of, of Microsoft
 fandom and Nokia fandom, like together has created like a, like a super beam, super,
 super fan.
 Yeah.
 Would you say a rat king, which is the most disgusting.
 That was so mean to me.
 I'm sorry to all the, is the most disgusting thing.
 It's not a real thing.
 Well, it's, it's a, it's an urban legend, but it's unverified.
 It's unverified.
 Snopes isn't sure yet.
 Well, I don't want to know.
 Yeah.
 I want to get it out of my mind.
 I just think they've like merged together and I think even regular fanboys are, have
 now become frustrated with the, with like the Lumia fans.
 Yes.
 Anyhow.
 So what, so, so there's a phone coming out.
 Oh my God, Paul.
 And you're going to review it.
 People have, people have been saying you should be ousted from the verge cast.
 For this reason right here, I just want you to know there's a tide, small tide, low tide.
 Well it's funny because I'm not on the verge cast as often.
 There are people who say you should be off all together because you don't know anything
 about technology.
 I'm able to say I'm really a great outside voice of reason.
 Those people are crazy Nokia fanboys.
 Who I just called a wrecking ball.
 I can't think of a more gross or insulting.
 They'd call it.
 I mean, I like there are things that CS out worse, but are actually better.
 Yeah.
 Let me walk you through the chronology.
 Early, the beginning of the week, Tom Warren writes, what is the big secret of the windows
 phone eight?
 Nobody's seen it.
 It's a secret.
 Nobody knows.
 There's an apparently no answer to words.
 3d.
 Right.
 Well, the app developers are all, uh, they're all curious as to what's going on.
 Right?
 Why can't we see us?
 Why can't we write our apps for it?
 Nobody knows.
 It's very odd.
 Yeah.
 If I were an app developer, I'd be like, what?
 I mean, of course, on the other hand, like, you know, well, I guess I was six.
 They had bad betas like endless.
 Well they showed literally one of these Microsoft did this.
 They showed, they had a thing of an event, a big event to say like, here's windows phone
 eight and they didn't show all this new stuff.
 And they showed a bunch of stuff.
 Yeah.
 And then they were like, but then the developers don't get a crack at that.
 Like that doesn't make any sense.
 No, it's very, it's very odd.
 So there's that.
 I know it's hard to take from me knowing my, knowing one of the quotes from developers
 lifelong goal of bringing down everything windows related.
 One of the quotes from developers in Tom's piece is literally, why don't they just do
 this like Apple?
 Like they, they want that relationship where you get the SDK, you sign the NDA, you just
 go.
 I think it's a, so what's the secret with windows eight.
 So there's that big question.
 Then Tom ran a piece.
 How about a busy week with this stuff?
 It's been a busy man.
 He ran a piece.
 He Microsoft is, they're not going to do a surface phone this year, but it is on tap
 as plan B for the company.
 They're waiting to see how this round of launches go.
 I feel like it's like plan C. Right.
 But it's like a thing that's out there.
 Right.
 So it's not going to have, they want to see if their partners can handle it, which is
 basically what Microsoft has said to us.
 Like we've heard this, you mean one way or another.
 See if their partners can handle doing these things.
 Right.
 They're like, you know, they, they, we made the surface cause the PC partners aren't getting
 it done.
 So we had to do this.
 Have you seen the ads by the way, all over the subways?
 Yeah.
 I mean that's.
 They look good.
 We actually know.
 So, okay.
 So then there's that.
 And then next is the Lumia 920 was announced AT&T exclusive today.
 Which by the way, I do not believe was a choice that was made by Nokia or Microsoft.
 Right.
 In my heart of hearts, I don't think they would have wanted to cut out Verizon.
 Right.
 And my guess is.
 So the rumors are that Verizon will get it three months, four months from now.
 My guess is that Verizon said our, our testing is going to take longer than your launch window.
 Yeah.
 That's my guess.
 And or Verizon said.
 Or Verizon said we don't want it.
 Or AT&T said we'll commit more marketing dollars to this.
 Maybe.
 They certainly committed a lot of marketing dollars to the Lumia 900.
 Right.
 I mean it's very heavily advertised.
 So it's like, and so then all of this is happening.
 The phones are coming on in November.
 But Windows 8 is launching on the 26th.
 Dude, it's crazy.
 The end of this month is.
 Yeah.
 So Windows 8 is launching on the 26th.
 We just got the invite today to the event.
 And then Surface is coming like at midnight on that day.
 Oh wow.
 So it's like Windows 8 at 10 AM and then there's a Surface launch party.
 The 26th?
 The 26th.
 And then at midnight.
 Oh God.
 Or something like that.
 This is Microsoft 2.0.
 By the way.
 So they're, they're piling this stuff out.
 I mean, it's my anniversary.
 I just want to let you know.
 I feel like they're doing it on purpose.
 Right.
 Yeah.
 Are you happy?
 Fanboys?
 Cause Microsoft's getting me back.
 They're ruining my anniversary.
 Just like the, the, the debate.
 Just like the debate ruined my.
 Obama's anniversary.
 Oh right.
 The debate ruined his anniversary.
 In a way Obama and I have a lot in common.
 When you think about it, we're very, very, very similar.
 In almost every way.
 Yeah.
 Just without question on every point.
 I missed one.
 Similarities.
 And then Windows Phone 8 itself launches on October 29th.
 Oh God.
 So it's on the 26th there is Windows 8 and Surface.
 Yep.
 And then several days later on the 29th there's Windows Phone 8.
 And then somewhere in November the Lumia 920 comes out.
 Full blood.
 And so when does the Wii U come out?
 This all the way comes back to the start.
 Is that October 29th is when we, when Microsoft will finally reveal what is going on with
 Windows Phone 8 that they couldn't tell us this whole time.
 Oh.
 Which is not going to be.
 All indications appear to be nothing.
 Well, I mean, what could it be?
 What is it going to be?
 I mean, Tom, there's like a new animation for the live tiles.
 I'm sure there's a, there's a, there's a fourth size of live tiles.
 Just the whole screen.
 My hope would be that like it's just super great.
 And they wouldn't want to give it away.
 Yeah.
 But you know, the problem with Windows Phone 7 was not that it like lacked some core functionality.
 Well it did.
 It did.
 But here and there, the big problem was that the third party apps were not.
 It was a combination of those two problems.
 But if they'd solved one of those, I mean like.
 It still felt like it was a generation behind.
 Both of those together were killer.
 Right.
 And because they haven't necessarily given the app devs enough time.
 That's what's really weird.
 What I'm really worried about is that the apps will still feel like they're a generation.
 Oh, it's going to be the last one.
 Regardless of what else they're doing.
 Even at the time of the Lumia 900 release, the apps, where there were still many apps
 that had not been updated for the latest version, which was 7.5 of the OS.
 The apps still hadn't taken advantage.
 There were many apps that I use that still hadn't taken advantage of some of the things
 they added in 7.5 because the window was short.
 Right.
 And people were still working on them when they introduced this flagship phone, which
 it isn't really a flagship phone obviously, because if it had been, then they wouldn't
 have abandoned it after two months.
 Maybe you should just wait six months to write the review, Josh.
 I just think the review should be written by somebody who really, really will be complimentary
 to everything that Microsoft does.
 That way we won't have any problems at all.
 Can we get Ballmer to review this phone directly?
 I have to get Steve.
 By the way, I invite you, I'm speaking to you, Steve Ballmer.
 I invite you to write the review of the Lumia 920.
 That would be so great.
 That would be killer actually.
 Like an opp review.
 I really like this and I love the live tiles.
 It's so easy to get in, get out, get on with my life.
 I want to invite like all sorts of companies, especially Steve Ballmer to write reviews
 of their own product.
 Like we'd still do all our own review, but it's like an op-ed, it's an op-ed, like a
 presidential candidate does an op-ed in your magazine.
 Any senior member of the Microsoft executive team.
 Yeah.
 The CFO, whoever he might be.
 The CFO, the CTO, Steven Sanofsky, Steve Ballmer, you could review your product on the verge
 and we'll publish it.
 As a siloed op-ed area, but I invite you to do it.
 And an exclusive.
 I'd like to see where you would be critical.
 This would be awesome.
 And you have to pay our ad team to run that op-ed.
 We're not kidding, right?
 We're not kidding.
 I'll tell you what I'd really like to do, what I'd really love to do is see Ballmer
 review a competitor's product.
 No, we'd never do that.
 I'd like to see Ballmer review the iPhone 5.
 No, you can't do that.
 Why not?
 They can do whatever they want to do it.
 Okay, fine.
 Come and review.
 Stop having crazy dreams.
 Come and review any member of the executive team of Microsoft.
 Yeah.
 Upper level, upper echelons.
 I would like you to come and review one of your products for our site.
 Not as the official verge review as an op-ed.
 Yeah.
 So I'm guessing this has been floated a million times, but are they hiding the fact?
 Is it like windows RT?
 No.
 What do you mean?
 Like he's asking the kernel is the same.
 The same kernel.
 Just absolutely entirely the same.
 It's a Windows 8 kernel, essentially.
 Yeah.
 That was the first time I've seen that.
 That's like their thing.
 That's the announcement of Windows 8.
 But that doesn't necessarily- Nobody ever told me.
 Well, the Wall Street Journal, I guess, is not reporting all the-
 I really need to pay better attention to Windows.
 There wasn't a- Why don't you get like some magazines of scripts?
 Like a tech magazine.
 See, like I get like wired- Is there a Windows magazine?
 Is there a Windows magazine?
 Windows PC magazine.
 Is there a printer at our server facility?
 No.
 Because that's where it is locally?
 Let's move on from this.
 I'm just asking.
 What's the next topic?
 Is there one or are we done here?
 Nice.
 Well, there's the...
 Okay.
 Well, there's two more.
 They're all related again.
 So we can go back to Facebook messaging and ecosystem lock-in.
 I have no interest in that, talking about that.
 I mean, we can talk about it, but it actually goes to the...
 It's not that I have no interest in it, it just speaks to that whole thing that we've
 been talking about, which is the...
 Endless ecosystem lock-in.
 The ecosystem lock-in like life choices.
 Okay.
 So then you can go to Facebook hitting a billion users, which was announced this morning, which
 is crazy.
 And then putting out their first ad, which is completely nonsensical.
 Facebook made an ad?
 Yeah.
 Can I see the ad?
 The tagline of the ad is Facebook is like a chair.
 What?
 No.
 Can we see it?
 Can I see the ad?
 Yeah.
 This is a television ad.
 No, they said they called it a brand video.
 So who that...
 Can you roll this?
 Can you roll this?
 Who can I pay good money to see roll it?
 Let me see if I can get this.
 I've been reading a lot of Sherry Turkle, the Loan Together book.
 And it's like, I don't remember having all these bad feelings about Facebook.
 Facebook was always relatively innocuous to me.
 Now I think of it as this like evil beast that's eating our children.
 What did you...
 Oh, you guess you couldn't have read Trent's piece that he wrote today.
 Can you tell him the title of Trent's piece?
 Trent's premise is that he basically talks about how...
 You have to lie.
 You basically have to lie on Facebook to be who you are because they are demanding...
 They really are just trying to...
 Because it's just evil.
 It's trying to compile data about you.
 It's really interesting.
 At some point, he definitely compares Zuckerberg to Hitler in some way.
 Usually the end of an argument for Trent is just the beginning.
 I sent the ad to Michael.
 I don't know.
 They're watching it right now.
 I can see it from here.
 Yeah.
 Put that up.
 I mean, it's great.
 It's insane.
 Facebook is like chairs.
 Chairs.
 I mean, if you could hear the audio, I mean, there's like deep, meaningful voice over.
 That was a bench, by the way.
 They just showed a bench.
 The Morgan thing.
 Can we get the audio on this?
 Some of these are not...
 That's a sofa.
 Yeah.
 Okay.
 So...
 I mean, this is all very meaningful stuff.
 Sparking the conversation.
 Okay.
 Chairs.
 We sit on them.
 We put our chairs together.
 And then chairs are like Facebook in huge letters on the screen.
 I like this.
 That's great.
 Doorbells, airplanes.
 Wait a second.
 These are all other things that are like Facebook.
 Bridges.
 Because they connect us.
 Do chairs connect us?
 I don't know.
 Oh, no.
 They have a shot of somebody writing on glass.
 What if there aren't enough chairs?
 I saw Adrian's tweet about this morning.
 Adrian's tweet about this morning was just, what the hell are you talking about Facebook?
 No, they're saying Facebook is everything.
 Yeah.
 Facebook is everything.
 Facebook is everything.
 It is.
 Because we let it be.
 It is society.
 Yeah.
 This makes me depressed.
 Can I just say?
 Facebook is like chairs.
 Look at that.
 Chairs are like Facebook.
 Wait a second.
 Here's the social grid.
 Social...
 What do they call it?
 Social graph.
 There's a social graph.
 Is this the same commercial?
 Yeah.
 Still going?
 Chairs are like Facebook.
 It's just airing on TV.
 They say no.
 I'll tell you something.
 I mean, it is 90 seconds of complete insanity.
 Can I tell you something that people really want to do in their ads?
 They want to connect emotionally.
 They want to connect on a deep, emotional, and frankly, poignant level about their lives.
 Ads for services and ads for products now are not going to work unless you make at least
 one menopausal woman cry.
 That's all there is to it.
 Goosebumps like every single commercial break.
 No, it's have you seen that a PMSing woman...
 Oh my God.
 You're done.
 In North Korea.
 One emotionally fragile person.
 Okay, let's just leave it at that.
 It could be male or female.
 Paul Miller.
 Paul Miller.
 It could be Josh Topolsky, who seems emotionally fragile.
 Does he not?
 Referring to himself in the third person.
 They're not working unless one or hundreds of thousands of emotionally fragile people
 are shedding a tear because of the sentiment.
 Yeah, no, I did the Kindle Fire commercial and the Nexus 7 commercial.
 The Nexus 7 commercial with the girl.
 It's a very cute...
 What's the commercial?
 It's some phone.
 I hope my child is that playful.
 There's a phone commercial.
 This guy is making eye contact with the girl in the seat.
 She was kind of asleep and then he makes eye contact with the rear view mirror.
 I think it's like a Motorola commercial.
 Describing a trailer for the film Funny Games, a horrific thriller set in a resort town.
 He just makes eye contact with her in his rear view mirror and she smiles at him and
 then you know they're just so in love with each other.
 Is that like a Match.com commercial?
 No, it's just like a Verizon or Motorola or something, like a Droid commercial.
 She's like, I was in the road, I'm texting this other man.
 And then it's like Droid and the car explodes and it becomes like a robot, the robot explodes.
 Like a huge, I don't know, lightning bolt.
 Even the droid commercials now are like super touchy.
 No, droid.
 They're done with the droid stuff.
 They're into like, they're like, it's like all about your phone.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Full screen.
 Full screen thing.
 Yeah.
 Makes it like the first full screen phone.
 Like what do you mean?
 What does that mean?
 That's like, you're not a thing.
 It's not a letter box.
 Yeah.
 But it has borders.
 It's got edges.
 No, it does not end.
 It's a mathematical plane.
 Full screen.
 That's a mathematical plane.
 That's a mathematical plane.
 Full screen as opposed to what is the ad?
 Is it the first full screen phone?
 Yeah.
 It's a Razer M-Phone.
 What does that mean?
 It's just a nonsensical statement.
 No one knows what it means.
 You can't say what it means.
 It's just ad talk.
 Ad speak.
 Oh yeah.
 Like finally somebody clicked the maximize button on a phone screen.
 Here it is.
 Oh look.
 Say hello to the full screen phone.
 Say hello to the full screen phone.
 Send this one over to these dudes.
 Oh, hey, what are you going to, I'm going to, I got to get a new phone.
 What are you going to get?
 I'm thinking about getting the iPhone.
 It's not a, I'm not going to get it.
 It's not a full screen phone.
 I don't think it's a full screen phone.
 Is it?
 I know that the Droid Razer M is a full screen.
 Can you imagine somebody walking into a store asking if they have any full screen phones?
 You guys, what, how many, what, can you show me all the full screen phones that you have
 here?
 Just can I see every model next to each other?
 Oh yeah.
 Here's the commercial.
 This is the charming.
 Wait, what is this one?
 This is, this is the Droid commercial.
 It's like the, it's like the map commercial.
 Oh, I haven't seen this one.
 It's like, yeah, here it is.
 Well, we should put it on the, we should wait for it.
 We should show, can we show this one?
 Yeah.
 Get that up on the screen.
 Look at, look at this.
 Yeah.
 Edge to edge display.
 By the way, a phone which clearly has edges as they're discussing.
 Yeah.
 Look at this.
 The maps are working, aren't they?
 Yeah.
 It's like, you need to know how to do that fish.
 You need to know how to do that fish.
 Yeah.
 You do my doodle job.
 Boom.
 You using Pinterest?
 It's just like, it has edges.
 Look at that.
 There are edges.
 It goes on.
 Hey, can you go buy one of those right now?
 Look at this.
 No edges, no sides to that phone.
 It's full screen.
 The whole screen is in play.
 The whole thing.
 Every part of that screen is being utilized for information.
 I was like, you know what?
 I can't, I'm sorry, but I'll tell you what.
 I have not emotionally connected with my phone.
 I accept Verizon.
 I accept your new advertising.
 It is not, that is not the robot.
 Yeah.
 That's fine.
 You know what?
 If I see someone get terminated by a robot, I'll watch the terminated.
 I don't need to use your full screen phone.
 Yeah.
 Or see it terminating.
 Okay.
 There's one more thing.
 Message chain?
 No.
 Okay, good.
 Not that it, by the way, read Ellis's piece.
 It's great.
 We should.
 I mean, I will say this.
 I wanted to leave the iPhone and now iMessage is like, ah, that's pretty good.
 Welcome to the life of a Blackberry user circa five years ago.
 Does it finally work where you get everything exactly the same on the Mac?
 It's great.
 That's wonderful.
 So what's funny is that Ellis really loves, I was talking to him about this.
 He really loves Facebook.
 Yeah.
 I guess I, it's that ad.
 You know what the problem is?
 Because here's the thing.
 You know what else is really good?
 Google talk.
 And you know what Google talk works on?
 Everything.
 Hey, what?
 Everything.
 No, no, no.
 That's what I was going to say.
 Like, like I can use it on a laptop.
 Yeah.
 So I'm really used to doing, having Google talk conversations.
 Yeah.
 Which pop up in my email and they, I see them on my phone and they're all there.
 And I've actually stopped using third party clients and now I just use the.
 In the browser.
 In the browser.
 In the browser.
 They have a, they have a great Chrome plugin, which actually I would love to talk to that
 team and show them how they can make it even better.
 Multiple accounts for starters.
 But but I'm also used to like with my voicemail, I use Google voice.
 Yeah.
 I set up so that it's my voicemail and no matter what phone I use and it shows up, I
 have a plugin that I can see when I get a new message in Chrome and I can just open up
 a dropdown right there and listen to it.
 So I'm kind of used to this cross platform.
 This these continuous clients, if you will.
 I mean, it's my dream finally, truly being realized.
 You know where it doesn't work well?
 Yeah.
 You know what?
 Google voice.
 Google talk.
 Oh no.
 Google talk is there's nothing for it.
 They don't even have a client.
 Yeah.
 Also.
 It's like.
 It's like a part.
 You know, right.
 But is that about like stuff?
 It's just saying I just want it to all work.
 You know, you don't be great.
 It does.
 They made if they made APIs that allowed, you know, like they said they would for the
 face time.
 Yeah.
 Don't even the face time.
 The face.
 Hey, like the catch here.
 Dan is more like Dan is a lie.
 Dan Seifert.
 Yeah.
 What?
 What do you want, Dan?
 But there are plenty of clients for Google talk on iOS.
 I really name a good one.
 Name a good one.
 Deeter.
 I think there's a few.
 We just started.
 Sorry.
 There are in our chat room arguing about what good Google talk.
 Verbs says Dan.
 Yeah, whatever, man.
 You know, you know, it's great.
 The native Google talk client on Android.
 But I will say, like, I went back to something called B drive.
 I went back as just a man who respects himself.
 Won't install.
 I went back to the galaxy.
 And I could do it.
 B drive.
 Oh, not happy.
 Oh, B drive.
 Deeter says they all suck compared to me.
 I went back to the galaxy Nexus after using the iPhone five.
 And I have to say, there are some definite things I miss about the iPhone five.
 Yeah.
 I'll say one thing that I noticed.
 And maybe it's because it's LT and this is not.
 But the handshake between leaving Wi-Fi and getting on 3G is like much better on the iPhone.
 Yeah.
 Much better.
 Like, and I don't know why.
 Dan, this app has two and a half stars.
 Oh my God.
 This is.
 And it's like the UI is.
 All right.
 Any other questions before we wrap up?
 They're all asked.
 What do they want to hear about?
 Well, there's now there's two.
 Now I think about it.
 Go ahead.
 B drive.
 B drive.
 That does look pretty good actually.
 Two and a half stars.
 Well, there's two things.
 One, I think we should just take a moment and mourn the final death of Ping, which was
 killed this week.
 Do I have to actually spend a moment doing that?
 No.
 And then the actual important thing.
 I miss Ping now that it's gone.
 Why didn't we use it when it was here?
 Because it was useless.
 Maybe it was useless.
 Maybe we just didn't spend time with it.
 Spend enough time with it.
 It's like a neglected.
 Maybe Apple should have come up with a friggin streaming music service already.
 Yeah, right.
 This guy knows what's up.
 Biosystems dead.
 Everybody uses Spotify, Apple.
 Everybody uses Spotify.
 Except for you.
 You are like a loser for not having Spotify.
 I will say and perhaps there's something more to be to be written about this.
 But I mean, I just am increasingly like fed up with anything that doesn't travel with
 me.
 Yep.
 I'm like, oh, I'm not going to do this for and maybe it's because I'm I do this for a
 living and I'm like over here with this and over there with that.
 No, you can't tell a normal human to manage files to like plug things in and copy.
 I just I just I don't want to do it.
 I have to say like they got they got the tape.
 I mean, it just drives me crazy.
 On this phone, I've got like I've got my play my music stuff that's like uploaded to Google
 Play.
 Yeah, right.
 And then I have my iTunes stuff, which is all synced.
 It's like sync to my computer and it's sync to my iPhone.
 And to my iPad.
 You know, all it's all I clouded iTunes matched up.
 And then and that stuff is also that also sync, you know, my collection also syncs to
 play.
 But then I have like my collection matched in RDO and then I have it like matched in
 Spotify.
 And it's like it's like, isn't there some way to just not do what I'm doing right now?
 Is there some way to get this all together?
 What is the way I don't just I guess if I had to choose at this point, if I had to choose
 between my collection that exists and RDO or Spotify, you'd pick Spotify?
 No question.
 Every single person I wouldn't pick Spotify pick RDO.
 Well, I mean, I like RDO better.
 And I kind of hope Microsoft doesn't buy them, which is a rumor.
 Oh, well, I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really
 know.
 I read something about I don't think we ran it.
 I think we run it.
 We could we felt it wasn't, you know, we didn't feel confident enough about it.
 But I mean, it's it's out there.
 Yeah.
 But look, I think everybody hears of you.
 What's the story is that like and by the way, I have all my stuff synced to my phone.
 I mean, on RDO, the stuff that I wanted to do with Spotify to gigs and gigs of music.
 So it's not like I'm not listening offline or not to me.
 Nice thing is I can say, like, I don't want this anymore.
 And I want this new stuff.
 And I don't have to like stress out about whether I whether I'm buying it or not, because
 there are most albums I listen to for a week or two and then I'm done.
 Right.
 I'm getting that music.
 I don't have I've had subscription services since like 2005.
 And now I am pretty like tired of all the records I have right now.
 I've got a lot of vinyl.
 I've got some stuff on iTunes.
 I bought some stuff on the way.
 Crazy how such a change.
 I mean, I when I was younger, I had records that I listened to all the time and on vinyl
 or like on CD.
 No, I put them on and listen to them.
 And now it's like I feel so bored with having heard I've heard it so many times like Bob
 Dillon.
 Like I've heard so much Bob Dillon.
 He's amazing.
 I mean, Beatles, Beatles, greatest band ever in the history of music.
 Greatest band ever in the history of music.
 Basically an empirical fact.
 Crazy.
 I mean, the the absolutely crazy band in the history of certainly of modern music.
 Yeah.
 But fine.
 That's fine.
 You can argue in your life.
 I don't know who you would think would be in their place.
 I mean, if you do not say the clash, do not say the rolling stone.
 Do not say the rolling stone.
 But I think it's like combined, both excellent, both incredible, groundbreaking, unbelievable.
 I would actually pick the clash straight up.
 There's no comparison between the clash and the Beatles musicianship and all that crap.
 I mean, just in terms of like, just here.
 Are you saying your favorite band is the clash or you pick?
 I just don't like the Beatles.
 Like flat out.
 You don't like the music.
 But you can't deny that they're the most important rock band of all time.
 I think they're a great pop band.
 Oh, I'm not trying to bully you, but you I mean, they're the most important.
 I think they did some stuff to the musicians.
 They listen to the I totally was not the Beatles before I left the internet.
 I listen to the Beatles now.
 Well, the Beatles, I'll say, are a band that you can listen to over and over again.
 And you feel like you never get bored of them, probably because of the greatest band ever
 in the history of instantly music.
 Beatles mystery, magical tour, magical mystery tour.
 Anyhow, the point is that even even the Beatles at this point, I'm kind of like, I've heard
 this already.
 I will need to hear something new.
 And I think that that is musical.
 And maybe it's bad.
 Go yet.
 I need to hear.
 Yeah, no, that's that's over.
 That's those 15 minutes or have sailed.
 What go to is 15.
 Oh, God, it's done.
 I mean, does he have another song?
 No, he does actually.
 Actually, Tan lines just remixes new song.
 Oh, yeah.
 Which is which is pretty good.
 The remix.
 So I will.
 There are records that I used to listen to where every song on the record would be my
 favorite song at some point, like just track by track.
 And then it would like cycle over.
 And that I don't have that experience with any new music.
 Any new I never do.
 And because it's like my attention is like, I get so much other stuff.
 I do occasionally.
 But like with like this beach house record that I put on my my favorites list.
 I have listened to it, you know, a ton of times.
 And I really, really like it.
 The new beach house, the new beach house bloom.
 It's called really good.
 And I really like it.
 But I will say even things that I'm like loving right now.
 I'm kind of like, all right, I need to switch it up and listen to something new or just
 hear something different that I have like that my ears have not heard.
 Also I'm desperate for there to be a guitar band that doesn't also have like a really
 whiny, ephemeral singer.
 And that doesn't seem to exist anymore.
 So my chemical romance, my comical romance.
 Yeah.
 Come on.
 Like what kind of thing about a different track?
 I've been listening to rumors a lot.
 Fleetwood Mac and like amazing.
 I just have what's a song.
 Have you listened to Paul and I'll sing Fleetwood Mac?
 Have you listened to TUSK?
 Can I shazam you?
 Does that count?
 Sure, sure, sure.
 Have you listened to TUSK?
 They don't have a new favorite track on that record that I've heard 20 times.
 I'm not going to listen to Jack White.
 No rumors.
 TUSK.
 Okay, so what were you going to say?
 Have you listened to TUSK?
 Throw that in my face.
 Yeah, I have TUSK and rumors on vinyl.
 TUSK is amazing.
 I listen to them constantly.
 You know what?
 At the time, at the time, TUSK was the, I believe the story is that it was the most expensive
 record ever to make.
 It was.
 It was like two years or something working on it.
 I think it was over a million dollars.
 I think it was their, their like break.
 It was their record where they were like falling apart.
 I mean, Michael Shane is now.
 He was just doing, just typing the word rush and bold into the chat.
 Oh, wow.
 Anyhow, you are crazy.
 We should wrap up.
 We should really wrap up.
 So the one thing we actually didn't talk about is, and the people are crazy for it, a flurry
 of Nexus rumors.
 Oh, Nexus rumors.
 Yeah.
 Yeah, we should talk about it.
 All over the place.
 Down to like LG's making one.
 Yeah, and we're being, we're being, you know, obviously we want to be very careful about
 how, we don't, and I know that we have published rumors.
 Some of them were right.
 Some of them were not right.
 You know, we, we do our best to publish the stuff that we really believe in that comes
 from sources that are very reliable.
 And you know, there've been a lot of rumors floating around about the, about the NexEye.
 There was a, something in the Wall Street Journal published a few months ago.
 They said there's going to be multiple phones.
 We've heard a variety of things.
 The current crop of rumors, because the kind of what people are saying is the next round
 of next Nexus phones or Nexus devices are going to be multiple phones or multiple tablets
 from multiple manufacturers.
 So right now the rumors are there's going to be an HTC phone, the Nexus 5, which will
 be a five inch phone, which is the worst.
 I shouldn't say that.
 That's very rude.
 There's going to be LG, Nexus G. Is there going to be a Dell street?
 Nexus, Nexus street?
 Let me just keep going.
 Wait, it was the Optimus G Nexus.
 There's a Sony Xperia Nexus, which I have to say I'm extremely interested in.
 That would be extremely interested in.
 If they did like a 4.3 or 4.5 inch Xperia type phone that was a Nexus with a Sony camera.
 Sony has allowed me to like anything that they've built since like windows mobile 6.
 I can say that.
 I heard earlier this weekend.
 There's nothing worth publishing, but I heard a rumor earlier this week that I know that
 Sony was supposed to build the Nexus S and it just fell apart.
 We've always known that the Xperia play was supposed to be a Nexus S for Sony.
 No, it was the Xperia play was supposed to be a Nexus device.
 I think that fell through.
 Oh right.
 Remember that failed Xperia?
 That's where the Nexus S came from.
 Anyway, continue.
 This is exciting.
 Xperia Nexus or whatever.
 The only one I haven't heard of Samsung.
 So they all have the same chipset maybe to allow them to get the updates quickly.
 There was an interesting rumor that we didn't publish because it's just a rumor.
 We would be publishing it third party and we can't really verify it, but there was an
 interesting rumor.
 I think it was on Android Central where they talked about some idea that this would be
 like a multiple.
 There would be a chassis now.
 Essentially they would Google would be saying.
 Like they did for Windows phone.
 They would be saying like these all represent like a kind of.
 Oh and the Galaxy Nexus 2.
 Oh Galaxy Nexus 2.
 Which is what is the Galaxy Nexus 2?
 Is it just this with a better camera?
 Who knows?
 Better processor.
 It needs a better screen and camera.
 Yeah.
 What about like retina 2?
 No, no, no, no, no.
 What was it?
 Pentile.
 Pentile 2.
 No.
 Does not need.
 Pentile 2.0.
 They're actually doing that.
 Everybody needs to use.
 So they've gotten away from that branding and the S3.
 Pentile Plus.
 They're just calling it.
 It's just but it's still crap.
 I really, really want it.
 I really want to discourage people from using AMOLED displays.
 And then so anyhow, there's a what did you say the Nexus 2.
 Galaxy Nexus 2.
 And then a tablet.
 A new Nexus 7 and whatever.
 So we don't know.
 We've been hearing a lot of rumors about October.
 I mean I would be willing to bet a hundred US dollars.
 This is in my ass but I don't know what's worth more at this point.
 I think probably a hundred dollars.
 To who?
 The world.
 Okay.
 That there's going to be something this month.
 You know, I think there will be.
 That's just such like a best of both worlds scenario.
 Like every month is going to be crazy.
 I mean just think about the timing wise.
 I'm not talking.
 I'm just saying everybody.
 No, that's the best.
 I know that's so great.
 What would be great while you're crazy skin version.
 Well, they say they say on this in this is it Android Central's that the art.
 It's actually really interesting.
 Or Android and me as well.
 Whoever wrote it.
 It's very interesting because they what they suggest is and who knows if it's real or not.
 But they're basically saying like Google's going to say we have a new component of Android,
 which is like skinning.
 And that's like a thing you can plug into to do skinning.
 But you can also like turn it essentially turn it off.
 So presumably you can sell what we've been asking for forever.
 You're saying they actually would do that.
 I mean, that's the room.
 But of course, that could just be a fever dream, a fantasy fever dream that somebody's
 having.
 Who knows?
 I'd be very excited to see where it goes.
 Obviously, there's going to be a lot in store.
 This month is just bonkers.
 Keep it locked to the verge all month long.
 Is that cool?
 You know, this is my sixth month without the Internet.
 No, it's not.
 Is it really?
 At the end of October, it will be I'll be halfway Halloween.
 Oh, speaking of Halloween, we have on the verge Halloween edition.
 What coming up?
 What's the day?
 October 30th.
 Oh, is that right?
 Michael October 30th.
 Are we going to run the spooky Motorola ad for the third time?
 I don't know.
 But I'm going to tell you what I'm asking for.
 Here's requests that have gone out.
 I don't know if they're going to happen.
 Well, yesterday there was discussion of me shaving my beard and being dressed as David
 Bowie in like the star child like outfit.
 I don't know if that'll happen, but I would definitely be I would be willing to do it.
 Let's put it that way.
 If the price is right.
 I asked for a fog machine or dry ice for the stage, which I'm hoping we can get.
 I'm willing to pay for that out of my own pocket.
 And that's right.
 I will pay the 50 dollar rental fee.
 And that's and I just oh, and maybe a costume contest, some Halloween related fun.
 I don't know what send your send your suggestions.
 What is this like give candy to each other?
 That's boring.
 Send your Halloween related suggestions into a verge cast at the verge.com.
 We should wrap up.
 Yeah.
 Are we done?
 Are they going for anything else?
 No, but I have two things to say.
 Two things.
 The GIF away one announced next week.
 The GIF away one announced the winner of a Ford Focus electric from the last.
 Based on I can't say that the entries are there's some insane you guys have done yourself.
 There's some very hard.
 We're spending a lot of time figuring out who the winner of this contest is.
 The Verge Android app was updated today.
 Oh, yeah.
 No, it was updated yesterday.
 Yesterday, Verge Android app.
 Seriously, if you haven't downloaded it, go check it out.
 Totally hollow.
 But like the good hollow.
 Yeah.
 Totally hollow.
 There's been a bunch of forums, a bunch of tweaks and updates and design changes.
 I actually am really I was not that happy with the first version of it.
 And I'm feeling a lot better about this version.
 I feel like it's it's pretty good.
 I think where iOS is coming, iOS is coming.
 We're certainly it's coming soon.
 Forums are going to be added.
 There are there will be design tweaks and fixes for the iPhone five because there's
 been some incompatibilities with that.
 And it's going to be screen.
 That's coming soon.
 You can see you can see one row more of our of our stories.
 The best we actually we actually we actually are talking about doing some of the hollow
 stuff on the iOS app because it's just just feels like really good.
 Like, yeah, we're not kind of I'm not sure that we won't at some point.
 Yeah, but we're working on we're working on tweaks and fixes for all that stuff.
 And before you ask about an iPad app, that's we're still in the exploration exploration
 zone.
 It's called Safari.
 Here is the Safari mobile Safari.
 My man, my man's all right.
 That's the first guest this week.
 If you'd like to get in touch with us, you can email at Virgcast at the verge.com.
 You can leave a comment on the post.
 We love that.
 And we know you will complain of our interruptions and Paul's lack of information about total
 ignorance on all his complete is complete ignorance in every at every level.
 Yeah.
 Of discourse.
 And not just about technology, no, about every ever I mean, literally, very common sense.
 Is there is there any was there any part of any conversation we had where you did not
 come off as a unbelievably ignorant that time we were counting the 10 and I skipped eight.
 You even know it exists.
 At one point, I knew you could leave a message about that.
 Or you can find us on Twitter.
 The verge is at verge.
 I'm at Joshua Tupolsky.
 Eli is at reckless Paul is at future Paul and boy, I got to look at what people are
 tweeting at you.
 This is insane.
 I bet it's so good.
 And PO box 501 zip code 10276.
 I'm gonna send you something.
 Oh, it's New York, New York 10276.
 Yeah, I'm gonna send you something good.
 Oh, yeah.
 I'm gonna send you something that will not keep like, like a fruitcake.
 Remember, there is actually when we were at Engadget, we went to see yes, we left for
 CS and somebody had said cupcakes as like a PR thing.
 Oh, yeah.
 And they were like sitting on my desk at a well like a screen printed logo.
 Yeah, for like three weeks.
 They like hand delivered them to my apartment.
 We were all confused.
 What happened?
 No, I thought they were sitting around for three weeks at the office.
 Oh, that maybe that was another time.
 Maybe you brought them in.
 Maybe there's been multiple cupcake and lesson.
 The lesson here is don't send cupcakes to people unless you know they're going to get
 them or unless you're sitting in the PO box 501 New York, New York 10276.
 All right.
 That's Joe.
 We'll be back.
 We'll be back next week.
 Yeah.
 With more of Virg Cassie goodness.
 I might not be back because I'm ignorant.
 Depends.
 100% ignorant.
 Let's not like I might forget what time the podcast is at.
 It does seem or how to navigate to the podcast.
 It does seem relatively actually if you're using a smartphone at this point.
 Never now.
 That's bad.
 Horrible.
 Bad.
 You mean bad.
 I mean like I was map.
 So bad.
 Why?
 What's it going to take?
 Why did you ruin this?
 Can we just send this week?
 Can I go to the first cast?
 As always, I wish you and yours all the very best for the weekend ahead.
 After Friday.
 Lingafalls, what's the fuckingったbleto stay awesome.
 You