 Hey, and welcome to the first of many shocking and troubling Vergecasts from CES 2014. I'm Josh Dupolsky. I'm Neelay Patel. I'm Niederbohm. Neelay Patel, deeply, deeply interested in what's happening right now. By the way, perfect timing for an enormous jet to fly over the Las Vegas Convention Center. Can you hear that? I can. Well, we can hear it. Can you out there hear it? At any rate. So, this is it. Sunday night. We're here. The eve. It's happening. The eve before. The eve. The calm before the storm. Yeah. The small storm before the big storm. We already had a squall. You know, we had, what we actually had was a terrible winter storm that moved in across the East Coast, sidelining many of our writers, editors. My suitcase. Several people were, do you still not have your suitcase? I don't have my suitcase. No, you do. I do not. You're lying. I do not. Are you lying? I wake up every morning and I call Delta Airlines. You wake up every morning and you're crying. I asked them for my pants off. Wondering why this has happened to you. No, so we had a winter storm that sidelined a lot of people that made it very difficult to get out here, but now we're in beautiful downtown Las Vegas. That's not a place, right? Downtown Las Vegas doesn't exist. No, it's a place. Does that exist? It's being revitalized. Is there a downtown? We're nowhere near it. Okay. We're nowhere near it, I'm being told. But, Teeter. Anyhow, but we're here now. CES is starting to happen. Yeah. You can make a real argument about what day of CES this is. We've had that argument all day. Is it zero? Is it day negative one? Is it day one? Is Monday an official day? No. It's Tuesday. Tuesday is day one. According to them. I could have this conversation all night long. The reality is that today was the first warm-up day, and tomorrow is press conference day. And the rest of it is just people wandering. The rest of it is bedlam. There's going to be blood. There's going to be passion. The two things will usually be connected. I have to say, I've been reading a lot of backlash to CES. Always backlash. But I love it here. It's a party. I don't get the backlash. I did something today that will be up on the site tomorrow that perfectly typifies why we come to CES. Whatever. So products are announced here, they never come out. They don't move the needle. You know what it is? A bunch of people making the weirdest crap they can. Don't be bitter about what didn't happen. Be excited about what did happen. That's the way I see it. Mr. Positivity is how I'm known. I'm forcing the positivity. I'm very depressed. Amongst friends? Yeah, well, before we get into the Vergecast stuff. I'm alone. Before we talk about the new cyber toothbrush that was announced tonight. I am indeed excited and disturbed by the... I want to talk about Neal. I had a great loss today. My team lost to the Niners. A great personal loss. His sports team that he personally feels attached to. I'm a shareholder. A shareholder of his sports team. Wow. Did you disclose that? I own one share that grants me nothing. The Green Bay Packers, they can't even give you a win. Not even a win in the playoffs. Would it be too much to ask? The Green Bay Packers lost. We're brutally trounced. Crushed by 3 points. I have no idea what happened in the game. All I know is somebody tweeted that they were losing. All you know is justice was served. We were coming back from this thing that I went to do that you guys don't know about yet. The thing that's cool. And I saw somebody tweet that they were losing. And my first thought was, oh boy, Neal is going to be a nightmare. He's going to be a nightmare when I get back. So apparently his sports team lost. I'm drunk right now. Let's be honest. Drunk with sad. But I'll get through. Let's talk about the CS. So this is kind of like the first day. There's an event today called CS Unveiled. Our whole team was just there. I'm looking at the news right now. It was tight. It was tight as hell. So it's weird because Quantified Soft is a big theme of the show. Everybody's Quantified Soft. We're going to measure everything. The only one out of the gate is a smart toothbrush. The Colibri smart toothbrush that claims to track how well it brushes. It can tell where in your mouth it's brushing. That's actually kind of awesome. I refuse to believe it. And then it grains you on the quality of like, you got this kid. This is a total gimmick. Yeah. Total gimmick. Which I am going to buy. I mean, do you think you have trouble brushing? Look, it's electronic vibrations echo the rapid beatings of the Colibri Hummingbird. Oh my God. That's how they named it. No. I'm not even kidding. Shut up. I'm not lying. That's not real. That's true. Really? Yeah. That's why they named it. It's like a hummingbird's inside your mouth. By the way, judging you. Judging you on how good you're teaching. Our author, Sam Byford, gets an award for best sub-headline of the day, chomping at the Fitbit. Oh yeah, that's good. That's really good. That's great. So all this stuff is happening. I actually wanted to start by- Isn't it a champagne? Well, that's the joke. It's a two-level joke. No, I get it. But we've had this conversation before. So we actually, it's weird because a lot of- Wait a second. I'm sorry. Let me interrupt you. I'm getting a report from Twitter that our audio is all over the place. Oh, yeah. That it's bouncing between left and right channels. I think they're right. Are we aware of this? Did you guys put the audio bouncer on the... It was an effect. That was on purpose. Yeah. Can you do the telephone effect on my voice, guys? But only when he says something like remix. Remix. Wait, a lot of background noise. Now I'm hearing. Audio keeps shifting left and right channels. Well, listen, it's not like we know anything about technology. We're doing the best that we can. You'll have to forgive us if we can't get the audio to sound not completely insane. All right, anyhow, what were you saying? No, it's just weird. This year's show is going to be an extension of what happened last year. Well, last year CS was supposed to be the ultimate valley of how important the show was. And it actually showed up. All these indie companies showed up and they made it, I think, one of the best CSs ever. I agree. I agree. And this year is very much a continuation of that. So Pebble was here last year. They were kind of the darling of the show. They're back again this year. I think they actually have a press conference that we're going to get to. Oculus was here. They were, I think, the star of our show, although their product at that time was like ski goggles with duct tape. Yeah, literally duct taped ski goggles. This year they're announcing they're showing off the next generation of their product. So there's all this stuff that's happening over and over again. And the classic sort of categories that happen at CS, it's like there is Samsung's TV, the Easel, which was beautiful. I thought it was hilarious. I thought it was beautiful, but it was like a $40,000 TV that no one could buy. Like who would ever watch all those weird laptops, the Helix, all those Windows 8 convertibles, most of them pretty much in a flop, except for I think the yoga ones. And then there was a bunch of wearables last year, which aside from Pebble, never went anywhere. So this year it's kind of like we're going to see that resurgence again. I think my expectations of the big players are the same. They're very low. My expectations of the smaller players are very high. Although the big players, especially with 4K, I'm hoping that what we see is like we saw the insane, expensive, crazy show off TVs last year, the concept cars. And I'm hoping that we see 4K like maybe not the mass is quite yet. What was the bet that we had last year? I had a bet that 4K TVs would be like affordable, like $1,000 within like five years. And I think we're going to get there this year next. There's actually a 4K TV you can buy. Yeah that thing is a piece of crap, the Seiki. Yeah the Seiki. I mean you were right. I guess you nailed it. The Seiki is available for $1,000. I refuse to win a bet. I don't know, I want to check you out. That's like winning a playoff game by Phil Gilthom. Oh boy, here we go with the playoffs. It's cheap. I mean you can be proud of yourself. So what does this mean now? The Packers can't go to the Super Bowl? Yeah. They're not going to be going to the Super Bowl? No, they're going to go home. It's like that. Just like me. They need rest. Just like you. They need to take a nap. So stuff has happened already by the way. We should show a little bit of this Corvette video. Chris Ziegler is here. He is on the Carbeat at CES. It's one of his many beats but it... Cars at CES and CR are a huge deal. Really, really huge deal. So we actually took Chris and told him all he has... If he's not driving a car, he's screwing up day to day. So Chris went into a Corvette and one of our video... I think it was Zach went with him with a drone. So Chevy is adding basically a built-in GoPro to the Corvette with all kinds of tracking devices. It basically turns driving this car like doing hot laps into a video game. And when you play it back, you can share it. It shows you all your metrics. And basically Chris got to blast a Corvette around the desert. We have a monitor turned. Does anybody know? It would be great to be able to see what's on that screen. But anyhow, so yeah, so that was... There has been a... I mean, there does seem to be an increase... The car focus is out of control. Yeah. I mean, I just... The thing I just went to see that you guys will see tomorrow is a car related device. That's not the right way to describe it. But there is something I think somewhat exciting happening in cars right now. And I kind of blame Tesla. I feel like Tesla's put the spotlight on car technology in a way that shows that you can do something more ambitious than just put a better stereo in it or do voice... And other than the Prius, when's the last time we've had that? We've had a huge drought of exciting things happening with cars. It's weird because if you look at the pieces of the cars that are... It's... I mean, that Corvette really is like a fancier... It's in the vein of a fancier stereo, right? Let's take an existing car and bolt technology on it. It's awesome because it's a Corvette. With Tesla, it was like they reinvented a car. Like Hyundai is here, Chevy is here, BMW is here, Audi is here. These guys, they're kind of like taking existing cars and existing hybrids and sort of like... They are in a way adding on the stereo stuff. I think it's always been a car show and that they've always had a big chunk of this show where it was dedicated to cars, but it was for a really long time, it was new stereos and GPS units and like speak... It wasn't really technology that was moving the ball forward at all, I think, for autos. And it definitely feels like that's changing. Because a lot of those things, those traditional things have been eaten by the smartphone. And that's like, I'm never gonna buy a GPS unit, I'm just gonna use my phone. It's never gonna occur to me to have a GPS unit. My car stereo, all I really wanted to be is an audio and jack and a volume control. I feel like it's the last couple of years have been the worst ever for Garmin. Yeah. Like TomTom and all that. Yeah, I mean, is TomTom still in business? I think they sell maps. The fact that I'm asking that I think is a great example of the trouble that they've had, a great sign of the times. It's true though, I mean, but a lot of the technology is, there's still some frivolous stuff. Yeah, but that's what makes it great. I mean, that's why I love this show. Like I actually thoroughly enjoy like frivolous, hilarious technology because it's frivolous and hilarious. Yeah. And the fact that everybody's here, they're all seeing what's going to stick next. I mean, that's kind of how it CCS, right? This is like the desperate search for the next big thing. Yeah. And everyone's just throwing stuff at the wall. Desperate is definitely the right word to use. But it's like a fun desperate. Yeah. I mean, I think... It's like a late college party desperate. I just think, yeah, there's a, well, late night party is sort of right. I think there's, but I think the thing about it is there's a lot of, like there is plenty of bad stuff, but there are some really interesting things. I don't know if we've seen any of the most interesting things yet. No. I think the shabby thing is somewhat interesting. I mean, Chris is going to literally be driving and reporting on driving cars like all week. Yeah. And there's a lot going on. And then he's going to die because there's nothing else that would make him happier. That this is the peak of his entire life. Playing with cars for a week in the desert. So we should go through some basic. Let's talk. So we talked a little bit about cars. We should talk about TVs. Like there are some big categories that are always at the show. I think TVs is a big one. We've already seen it was leaked yesterday that LG is going to announce the webOS TV. Oh, they like, I think they said it. They said it and then we saw some pictures. They're going to have a big presence for this. It's nice that the two of you are here to talk about webOS. I have up right now. I have my free part 10,000 word palm pre-review from Engadget. And I've been like going over it and just going like, God, I wish webOS had happened. And I really wish it had happened the way I thought it was going to happen when I wrote this review. And I got to say, even now webOS looks. Oh, that webOS. The original webOS. The original webOS. Even now webOS looks either as current, if not a little bit more current than a lot of modern OS. Well, I mean, we did the story about the last webOS, what they were actually planning. Yeah, the stuff they were planning is awesome. I mean, it's disappointing to say the least. I just think the fact that LG, like, yeah. Why? It's just like, webOS. It's going to be on it. Here's the thing with smart TVs, like, they're never going to do anything good. It's going to be a TV with apps on it. And maybe the apps are going to be a little bit better. But it's still not going to be television. The problem with smart TVs is that it requires- There's a cable box. Well, yeah, but it also requires that you buy LG's interface. If this interface is real, by the way, it looks like racing stripes. That's what it looks like to me. It looks like a European car with racing stripes, which maybe is cool. Maybe you're into that. But I just don't understand what it is they're trying to do with that. But they need webOS to do that. Why do they need this operating system to make that work? Yeah, I mean, I think it's, well, they have it. That's the first thing. They're like, we bought this thing. They didn't have it before. I mean, it is a framework for making apps and for an interface. The thing about smart TVs is the competition for making something that doesn't suck is super low. Every smart TV I've ever looked at the interface, I want to go away from it so fast. I bought a new TV, which is, until these 4K TVs become the mainstream, it's supposed to be the best TV ever. This Panasonic plasma, they're discontinued. I bought it on the way out. It is the most, everything about using this TV except for watching television is terrible. The grid of apps, the fact that it has a camera that pops up by itself, you can leave video messages using it. No, really? It physically pops up? But it doesn't go back down on its own. You have to get up and watch the TV. That's like the open tray on a Bluetooth speaker. Does it have a motor or is it just like out of spring? It just pops up. Wow. Actually, those close. What am I talking about? That should be able to close by itself. It doesn't close by itself. Everything about what Panasonic tried to do with this television except for make a beautiful picture is a huge fail. That makes zero sense. That's kind of where LG, I think, was with software. You look at what LG and Samsung started out with Android on their phones and you're like, wow, that disaster has only gotten slightly better. Things may be accelerating a little bit faster than LG. I think LG's Android phones are still disastrous. That's awful. I see why they would want to buy an operating system and designers and experts to make their smart TV to get a jump in that market. At the end of the day, you're going to turn all that stuff off and you're going to use your Comcast box. You're just going to keep winning that fight. I'll say this. I just got a Roku 3 and I think they've made some real strides in getting...the search alone is kind of a killer feature where it'll just show you where something is available. What's crazy to me is this whole idea that we're going to do...and you see this on everything. I use the Amazon app on my Panasonic TV and it's terrible. But here's the thing. Every app is different. Every app has a different interface. And Netflix has its own interface and Hulu has its own interface and HBO Go has its own interface and they're so wildly inconsistent. The one thing I'll say that Apple has right is they're basically like, we're not going to let you make apps for us. We're going to make your apps. That's the only way that I think this can work. The problem with LG doing it, let's say that everyone...and it's not going to be the case, but let's say hypothetically LG has every app is hand coded by LG to fit into their interface or whatever. First off the cable issue, that's still insurmountable in some ways. But then it's like if Netflix makes an app and Hulu makes an app, those apps aren't going to have the same language. And for users it's extremely confusing when you're doing the same thing. I mean, Hulu doesn't do anything different than Netflix. It shows you videos. That's all it does. It plays videos. But going from one to the other is like night and day. So how can we expect to, how can any of these people expect to make a cohesive experience for consumers when they have to keep relying on somebody else's UI design? Right. But the thing with webOS in particular, and I've heard Samsung say this to you and I strongly suspect based on a year ago when I talked to LG when they bought webOS that their whole plan is to lean really heavily on HTML apps, web apps basically. Samsung's doing the same thing with their TV. I mean, they don't want to build platforms for televisions because those platforms. Are you about to hand out web apps as that was coming? No, I'm saying that if you, you know, Netflix is a web app, right? It's an HTML5 app. Yeah. It just deploys. And so they've handed over not even just like the little bit of control to like, here's some UI primitives and like make an app that looks like an iPhone app the way Apple does or like make an app that looks like an Android app the way Google does. It's, here's the web. Like you make a web app and it'll just show up on our TV and there's not even like any internal consistency to how you navigate those things because there can't be. And there was with webOS. That's what I'm curious about. Are they going to keep any of that? Who knows, right? And like, I don't, if all they really wanted was a really great like HTML rendering engine, it's like, I still don't know why they bought webOS. But I suspect it's all just designers. I mean, we'll see. It's like. At the end of the day, like you're not, you're not going to change the world with your smart TV because like you're not going to own the ecosystem, you're not going to get a huge market share because your smart TV is so great because people have a long upgrade cycle and they just use what they've got. And then if they want something better, they'll plug a box into it. So like the most you can expect from a smart TV, you can't expect it to solve like the cable problem. You can't expect it to like have a IR blaster to control your other things or do it all over HDMI, CEC or whatever it's called because that's a mess. So like the most you can expect is like just have apps and an interface that don't suck. And if they can reach that bar, they'll actually be doing better. But it's not going to be world changing. It's just going to be like a nice TV that isn't painful to use. And what's sad is that that's better than what most TVs are. I mean, I can't believe we're still talking about it. I mean, not this in particular, but how many years has it been this conversation about all the TVs, the next front? I mean, literally like a year or two years after the iPhone, like when it was known that it was a successful project and that people wanted it and it was a good product and people were buying it, project and product. People were like TVs, the next frontier. When are they going to crack TV? And we've like 76 years or whatever we've been saying like, when are they going to crack TV? And it's getting, but can I ask a question? Why do I have the fire behind me? Is this because it's after hours? Is that what the thing is? Okay, I just couldn't remember because it seems like you've got this nice background. Every time I see you on the monitor, like, oh, that's a cool background. And it's like, it's like Legend of Zelda. It's like Legend of Zelda behind me. It's a good fire. It's true. You do have nothing. It's home. But like, I'm getting really tired of the TV conversation. It's just like, I feel like there is no winning this. I feel like you've got too many interests from major players who have no reason. They're all making money. They've no reason to give up ground. I mean, if Apple could like somehow think of a way or LG could think of a way and they're not going to, or Samsung could think of a way to bring the TV industry to its knees and the movie industry and go like, check it out, guys. Now you got to come around to our way of thinking. Then you might have something, but they can't do it. The way that you would think they would do that is they would be able to move a ton of units that like gives them power. Right. So they- Yeah, sure, half the homes in America have LG smart TVs and then LG could be like, hey, guys. Right. We're going to get a 4K, we'll see. We need, there's nothing to make people go out and buy them. Also, it should be noted that for the average consumer, the possibilities of getting more TV and better TV have never been bigger and greater. I mean, I understand it's a pain in the ass, but it's still like Amazon Prime is like making shows that are actually somewhat decent. Only one, betas. I watch it. It's not that bad, honestly. Is that the Frat House one? No, it's the one, they have this funny, they have a show called Alpha House and they have a show called Betas, which is a Silicon Valley show that startup do. That's awful. It's pretty horrible most of the time, but sometimes it's actually- I haven't watched it yet. It's really good when they don't focus on anything having to do with the startup world. If they focus on anything that's like tech or startup, it's almost unwatchable. It's cool job syndrome. It's like every 90s, maybe people had cool jobs. Like Reality Bytes, Ben Stiller was like, I design Super Trains. It was like, that's not a real job. Ben Stiller's job in Reality Bytes was like a programmer. The other guy, the other boyfriend had Super Trains. This guy finished last design training. And Ben Stiller was the- Wait a second, wait a second. Ben Stiller was like an exact producer at MTV. And Ethan Hawke, not Ethan Hawke. Ethan Hawke was just a stoner. Who's the other person? I'm going to just go ahead and say right now in my mind, Empire Records, Reality Bytes, and the third one, which is actually the one I'm thinking of, are all completely messed up. I have no idea who he's talking about. I was going to say, you guys were talking about singles. Yeah, singles. But he was a Super Train designer. I feel like Empire Records is way later. In that genre? Yeah, it's like several years after the Reality Bytes singles. When people put those in those categories, I'm like, Gen Y. Yeah. No, that's Gen X, dude. Well, no, the other two movies are Gen X. Reality Bytes and singles are Gen X. Empire Records is Gen Y. Empire Records is Gen Y. Yeah. And if you think they go together, that means you're Gen Y. That's right. No, he's Gen Y. They're all just mixed up in my head. I'm Gen Y, and we're on the cusp. You guys are old. We're very old. I'm so old that I'm getting Andy Rooney-ish about TV solutions. I'm like, stop talking about their world. They're three years apart. What are you talking about? Hey, a lot happened. A lot of shit went down in three years, okay? Anyhow, I just don't want to talk about smart TVs anymore, okay? No one does. Can we have a... Okay, you guys are insane. Reality Bytes came out one year before Empire Records. Well, it feels like a lifetime based on what happened in between Reality Bytes and Empire Records. And Singles was first. Yeah, Singles was the one. Yeah. Singles... With the best soundtrack. What is that, 93? Singles was really the love, actually, of the genre. 92, and then Reality Bytes, 94? Yeah. And Empire Records, 95. Yeah. That all sounds right, because in 95, shit got whack. It all got bad in 95. What happened in 95? I think you know the truth. In my heart. You hit 95, and things started to get really bad. And 96 is when I knew it was over. Oh, 96 was a dead hell. 96 was the year I graduated high school. Exactly. That's exactly what we're talking about. Yeah. But things got really lame in 95. What Empire Records did. You know what? That was like the era of Batman and Robin. What year was Batman and Robin? Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin? I bet it was 95. 94? 97. 97. That's when you knew it was over. No, no. You're so deep. What was the first Joel Schumacher Batman? The one with Val Kilmer. Oh, man. That was... Am I making this up, or did that happen? No, that happened. It feels like I'm making this up. That was the nipple Batman. That was the nipple... that was Schumacher on the move. Yeah. Just making it happen. Just making it happen. You really... By the way, when you look up Joel Schumacher on... I'm sure this is being tweeted at me right now. His Wikipedia page literally is like the Brat Pack, John Grisham, Batman, and then post Batman career, because I'm pretty sure that Batman destroyed his career. What the hell is the third... Batman Forever. Batman Forever. What year is that? 95. I rest my case. The show's over. It did have Kiss from a Rose by Seal. Kiss from a Rose is a great song on the library. So on the one hand, bad movie. On the other hand, great song. Seal, mysterious character. Very mysterious. Yeah. Okay, let's move on to Holmes. Anyhow, I would just rather not... Oh, man. By the way, somebody just tweeted at me that the year they were born was 1996. Yeah, it all went to hell. You're the generation... You're the problem. Yeah. You're the problem. Yeah. Okay. The super trans... You know what I hate? Is that what Andy Rie said? What? You know what I hate? Is that his thing? I'm sure he said that. Okay, go ahead. Well, actually, there's one more thing about TVs. The other thing that is important, which is the TVs we're talking about, the problems we're talking about are all sort of HD problems, and then the next big problem is how to get 4K content. I'm so sick of 4K. I'm already over 4K. You're just done? You're just never gonna get one? I mean, we know that... I don't want to get one. I don't get it. We know 4K is gonna be followed by 8K, so why not just do 8K right now? Because it's taking them five years to get a 4K... No, I don't buy it. It's just make more pixels. No, the problem... Get your pixel machine. Get your pixel machine, start it up, and just private print double the amount of pixels. Yeah, that'll work. And then glue that to a sheet, and then sell that to someone at the TV, because that's how it's done, as far as I know. I mean, when you saw HD, you're like, wow, this looks great. When you saw 4K, you were like, wow, this kind of looks like HD. Yes, I had that same reaction. Well, yeah, this looks pretty good, I guess. I have a friend who is a super high-end home theater person. You always have a friend. I do, I have a lot of friends. Yeah, you have a lot of friends. And they had the new Sony 4K TV in their office, and I definitely went over there, and we definitely sat around just watching the demo content. What else is there to watch? It was great, man. It was like an hour. Tulips? You know, it was like... Butterfalls? Yeah, some... Like a ladybug on a leaf. Yeah, it was under the sea, man. Fish. Oh, fish. Of course, of course. That's a whole different... Knocked a pussy's ass like a tenfold. A lot of people kept running out in the hallway and then coming back and being even more impressed with the fish. Really? You kind of know what I'm saying? I just... Look, I get it. I know it's going to take time, but seriously, do you really believe in 4K? For the big... Yeah. You want to hit your wagon in 4K? Yeah, I think people are going to start buying the Cs. What about 6K? What about 6K? Dude, over the holidays, I was in Best Buy, and they're already pushing them to consumers, and people are already like, ooh, that one. You were in the Sakai? No. You were in the Best Buy, looking at the 6K IT? No. Samsung and Sony and LG, they're all... I mean, they're the big players in the industry. They've already got the products in stores, and it's going to be just like HD was. Does that sound normal? No. That's the cat. Yeah. That's the cat. Right outside of our Studio 10 here, Caterpillar is selling rugged phones. And to show you how rugged they are... They have a giant crane. Right now, they're... They brought a bulldozer. They're bulldozing the phones. Yeah. And the phones are just... The phones are fine. Don't worry about it. You can drop them on the work site. Okay. The TVs are coming, right? They've got to get the content there. Yeah. Nobody has answers. I think YouTube is going to do something here. I think Netflix will probably do something here. We didn't have answers last year. Well, we had a demo on Netflix. We didn't have answers this year. Yeah, I think... I mean, it's been a year. If they don't have more answers, then there's nothing to say. But isn't the biggest problem bandwidth? Yeah. So, until we solve bandwidth, which, as far as I can tell, like, Time Warner and Comcast are throttling because they don't have enough of it to give out to people. That's what they claim. I think... Well, I don't know why. I think they're 100 percent... They're happy to tell you that if you seem to be using excess of their network, they'll throttle your ass. Right. I think they want to create... They want to make it seem like you always need to buy... They're just like the carriers of anybody else. They want to make it seem like you need to buy more because it's too slow and you're using so much. Right. And then they will turn around and say, well, our users aren't even using as much as they have. So, 4K for them is a... It's a win-win, right? They get to say, well, you need more to do 4K. And they get to turn around and say, well, government, we need less regulation because look at these new uses that we have to give to our customers. You think that's what it's going to be? Yeah, this is... The 4K is going to be the mover? This is like our hotel has Wi-Fi and you can either get the free tier and it says, like, good for email. Which is a joke. And then the fast tier is like, good for video. I don't think they know what email is like in the modern era. The email has images in it. It's not good for any email unless you're literally sending me HTML. I have for Pine. Oh, okay. Yeah, if you're using a command line. If you're watching singles and you... The Internet at the hotel is great. All right, so then the next one on our list, we talked about cars, we talked about TVs. I think smart homes are going to be a big deal here. There's all kinds of sensors. Smart homes? There's all kinds of sensors and stuff happening here. But we need... That's an area that is really, I hate myself for saying this, ripe for disruption. It's ripe for getting a bunch of this stuff to actually talk to each other and not be a million dollars to do it. Yeah. We need to work together. But when you think what you could do... Yeah, well, the issue is standards. But also, cohesive systems that are designed intelligently for the home don't really exist. I mean... Well, not in a way that is accessible to without spending a lot of money and doing a lot of setup and geeking out on it. A lot of them seem like extensions of weird Home Depot brands that you never come into contact with unless you're in a Home Depot and you need a doorbell. And now the doorbell company makes a complete system to wire your home up for automation. And you can buy the Home Depot starter pack. Yes. The best thing right now is Crestron. And people hate it. Yeah. I mean, they hate it. Some people love it, but they love it because they're really good. I just had a somewhat personal experience with the home, with my ADT alarm system. I'm not going to get into the details, but I will say that ADT... I would not subscribe to ADT if I were you because the entire thing is... Because they're home even if you're not. That's creepy. I think the whole alarm industry is like a Ponzi scheme. Yeah. It's like an elaborate scam. It's literally a protection racket. It is. It's a protection racket. And you don't need it. There are actually services... I've done some investigation, and this is something that's very exciting to me. Where you just put the flags. There are services where you can get your own sensors, your own carbon monoxide, smoke detectors, everything, base units. They work on cellular. Yeah. You don't have to sign up for a subscription. You pay way less money every month to get... It's still monitored. They still call the cops, all that stuff. But it's not part of this crazy... They were like... I'm like, yeah, I need to cancel my ADT service because it's never worked the entire time we've been here. And you've sent several people out and no one's been able to fix it. They're like, oh, yeah, you need the new pulse system. It's like, oh, that's interesting. The thing doesn't work, so you want to upgrade the system to something new and maybe have me sign up for a new contract. They're like, well, you can cancel it, but you'll have to pay the remainder of your contract, which is like $1,000. I was like, you have to be... I think I actually said this to a rep on the phone. I was like, you've got to be high if you think I'm going to pay you one more cent for the service that you have provided, which is no service at all. But the point is, I've decided anything... You should be very wary of anything you are locked into on contract that you are penalized for if you cancel your contract. To me, that's like saying, listen, our service sucks and you're going to be unhappy with it, but we're not going to let you get out of this contract. I feel like they're admitting that there's going to be something wrong with your service, which is why I think most of these phone contracts are basically scams. But anyhow, I'm ranting for no apparent reason. That's the thing, how do you make money putting your door locks into a house? It's not obvious. Because fine, you can sell some people new door locks, but you have to sell them something again. You're not going to upgrade your door locks in two years. There's a really finite market of people who are going to just change all the locks in their home. Right. And once you've captured them, they're done for. I mean, I would be all for doing something in my house that was monitoring electricity, heat and air conditioning, locks. I think this is where Nest is going. If you look at these companies and what they're doing, they're the only ones who seem to have done a good job of capturing both super nerdy people and regulars. Nest is building it, I'm hoping they're building it piece by piece. As long as each piece is like, oh, I actually want that on its own, eventually the dream of a system will come. But the problem with Nest is the same as the problem with Sonos, where Sonos is an amazing system if you want to listen to music all over your house. And if you want to listen to music from disparate sources, it's just really expensive. It's completely a luxury. Really weirdly proprietary. It's totally proprietary and completely a luxury item. I mean, it's better than... But you know what? In terms of proprietary systems, when you compare it to the kind of stuff that you're sold in the stores that sell high-end home automation shit, it's way better. I mean, in terms of simplicity and... No. In my family, there's a house that's all wired up with control. In my family, there's a house. There's a house. It's very big. He has a friend who lives there. There's a thing in the house. And control force. It's kind of close. It's like, it's bad. And it probably costs 10 times what a Sonos system... It's cool. The first time you use it, you're like, wow, I can... There's a remote control and you can turn off the lights or you can open an app and screw things. And then you're like, wow, I want to stream music for three hours and the whole thing crashes. I think the big problem is also that in a lot of homes, I mean, you're not going to rewire your outlets. Yeah. You're not going to rewire your switches. And that's why I think Belkin showed up with a bunch of LED light bulbs today. I think it unveiled... There's a crock pot. What do you mean? I don't know why you need to have your crock pot connected. In an instant, man. Oh, yeah. First you want your crock pot connected. Yeah. Slow cook. In a minute, set it up. You want to keep an eye on it. It's a slow... But it is exactly the opposite of why you need to be notified. Slow cooking is the exact opposite of things that you need to be notified about. It's like... You can't ruin it. No, it's like it's cooking forever and then at some point it'll be done, but it doesn't really matter when you get to it because it's just going to keep cooking. Yeah. You don't need to get an alert on your smartphone that your crock pot item is... What if there's a magic recipe that the temperature needs to rise and then fall and then rise again and you get control with your phone? Okay. That could be useful actually now that you mention it. But I do think that the... I have no idea if such a recipe exists. No, no. I don't think it does. But I do think that the idea of a connected home that is controllable and responsive to all sorts of factors... I read Netanyahu's writing an angry comment about the Packers on a SB Nation Packers. What's the Packers blog called? Acme packing company. Acme packing company. Acme packing company? Yeah. That's good. And you are a member of the community. I am, but I... I'm a member of the daily... I was actually just working on a tweet. That's the Vikings. The Internet of Raised Meats. The Vikings are also not going to the Super Bowl. The Vikings, no. They're running away from the Super Bowl as fast as they can. And they have since they were founded. So anyhow, but I do think the home automation sector is really interesting. And the problem with home automation is it's really hard. It's confusing and complicated. Way more so than a TV situation, in my opinion. There's so many more factors. And how do you get people to adopt... There are more factors, but the thing that's frustrating about home automation is there aren't institutional giant monopolies blocking progress. With TV, you can get pissed off at Comcast, but with home automation, you just have to get pissed off at them not doing it. Right. This is complicated. It's basically it. The reason Nest is good at what they're doing is because they're only attacking one problem. They're focusing on really finite problems. That smoke detector is cool. I think a lot of people bought them over Christmas. The Best Buy on my hometown was constantly sold out. But I don't know... I'm still not going to buy one. I don't know what it's for. But if you live in a house, in a regular size house, you need more than one smoke detector. Right. It becomes very expensive. The problem is how do you justify the $129 smoke detector? Even if it's awesome, you really just need it to go like, your house is on fire. Well, I just think like gadgety people who spend $139 or $129, they're only going to be happy with their gadget if they can play with their toys. And the only way you get to play with a smoke detector is when there's a fire. There's a horrible problem in your house. Honey, it burned the house down because the smoke detector talks to it. It really, really worked well. It really gave us the information. Yeah, I just think it's a tough nut to crack. And I think that... It went down again. What, the Wi-Fi's down? Yeah. So that's smart home. The other big ones here, we can just go through them. There's going to be a lot of wearables here. I think there's going to be a lot of... NVIDIA has a press conference that's actually starting very soon. I think there's going to be a lot of focus on gaming. Obviously tablets and PCs are like, they're always big here. I think we're going to see a lot of... You know, Sean did a report about PC manufacturers moving to Android, like with a big push from Intel. I think we're going to see a lot of Chromebooks too. I think we'll see a lot of Chromebooks. Really? Yeah. I think we'll see... Is it just Chromebook partners or is it just anybody can make a Chromebook? I think anybody can make a Chromebook. I think they probably want Google's blessing. Yeah. Right. But like... Well, actually... So you think maybe we'll start to see Chromebooks with crapware on them? That'd be the worst. How is this... Is Chrome OS open source? Yeah. And then you can just Chrome, right? Like, here's what I'm... I think Chrome OS is proprietary. I think it's like you need the keys to the kingdom. Let's use this... Here we go. We don't have internet. You don't have internet. There's Chromium, like what Chrome is based on. Chromium is open. But Chromium OS is not now. The Chromium OS is not now. Right. So you do a Chromium OS device... Yeah, but look, I was talking to one of the audits and Becky's mom bought a $400 gateway laptop from Walmart. She was like, bought it for herself. She didn't ask. I would have told her not to do such a thing. Yes, you should have. And it's just the worst piece of junk. And Windows 8 is terrible on it. Like, it's been... Whatever Windows 8... Whatever positive benefits Windows 8 might have in this world have been ruined by crapware. It makes no sense. She hates it. I basically spent a weekend turning it back into Windows 7 so she would like using it. And the whole time I was thinking, the only thing she wants to do on this computer is like run Chrome. Right? Fundamentally that's what I'm getting. I'm getting this to a place where she can run Chrome and like a handful of these other apps. And... Just install Chromium on it. Yeah. Just do a boot. This is called Linux. It's going to be weird. Yeah. But I get it. The thing about Chromebooks is they make those cheap laptops not terrible. Right. Because you can't do that much. I mean, what you can do just works. There are... I definitely could see myself with a Chromebook on a regular basis in the near future. I just don't think... Play it loud, guys. Super, super, super loud. And that's the merch, guys. I mean, I think we're going to see... That is really crazy loud. Yeah. Now, I think Microsoft is actually terrified of this, you see. The sense that I've gotten is that Intel is pushing for this Android on Windows concept, which is maybe just to get leverage back into the game. I think Intel has no leverage because they don't make smartphone chips that are of any value. And I really do not want Android apps on Windows. Like, if I've got a Windows PC, I'd rather have stuff native to it because Android apps still aren't the best. Here's what I'd like. Android apps on a Chromebook. Yeah. That's honestly... That would be... If I could run windowed versions of apps and get notifications the way I get them on my phone collected into an Android, some area... Sorry, not Android. Some area in Chrome that works the same way. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? I want to use the Twitter Android app. And I'm going to use... You wouldn't ever say that. I wouldn't say that, but I... Open source is called Chromium OS. Right. And then Chrome OS is a commercial version that has partners from Google. So if you want Chrome OS, you've got to be a Google partner. I don't think we're going to see Chrome... But that's just like Android, right? But I don't think we're going to see Huawei through a Chromium... No. They're going to do a blessed laptop. Yeah. Sure. They're all going to be blessed. I don't think Huawei is going to make anything. No one's going to show... Right. I'm just saying no one's going to show anything off that's not blessed by Google at this point. Right. But... So I think it would be really interesting to be able to say, okay, let's use a different example. Let's use... What's an app I use all the time on my phone? Instagram. Right. My Instagram app. I'm going to say I want to open up a little window running Instagram in my whatever resolution it needs to be to sit there. And then that'll be a windowed app with notifications that's happening. And then I'm going to go over here and use a full-fledged browser. The only thing missing from mobile right now is like desktop browsing, right? There are many, many apps that I use on my desktop that... I mean, even with an iPad, it's great. But you still want to be able to have the dynamism, if that's the word that I want to use, of a desktop browser of being able to access several tabs at the same time, really work within... Yeah. But I do think when I look at what I'm looking at, I have a Tweetbot on my Mac. I mean, Tweetbot is essentially a mobile app. I mean, their OS 10 version is not wildly different than their iOS version. Right. And it's moved some UI around or whatever. But it's like that's... To me, that's the future. And some blending of like web only with basically their micro apps, really. Yeah. But I think we're going to... App snacking. App snacking. Micro snacks. Do we own that or not? App snacking. We used to. I just let a lot of my domains expire. Yeah. I'm actually like in the process of cleaning out my domains because I have so many ridiculous domains. Yeah. Like I've been paying $15 a month for a lot of extremely... Netbooknude.com. I don't know if I've talked about this before, but at some point I owned Facebook with eight A's. Wow. Facebook. I probably still do. I'm probably going to get a season decision from Facebook now. I think the only one that I still own is like isfarvertired.com when he was like... No, no. Just the Instagram. The young guys with your footballs. Look, man. It's just rough. I'm going through the grieving process, okay? I'll hit acceptance at some point. It's not going to happen now. I mean... RamyMOS says a tweeter lacks Flash MP3 and MP4 support. Heavens no. Well... Dude, I can't wait for Flash to die. I can't wait for Flash to die. Like I honestly... Whatever. Flash is never dying. Yeah. Okay. And then the last sort of big category that we can talk about, I think wearables and phones are like... They're the big ones. I think gaming is like... We can talk about it, but Nvidia is really about to do a thing like any moment now. So wearables is going to be insane for like... Everybody saw Pebble win. This year it's going to be... Oh, boy. The beeping. Can you guys hear the beeping? I hope something comes crashing through. All I want to happen is a backhoe... Well, that wouldn't be good for you, Sarah, but you'd move, I'm sure, in time. I just want a backhoe to just come crashing through the studio and just end right here. And then stop. Yeah. Yeah. And then we're like... That's the first pass for this. And then a guy like throws a caterpillar phone at you. It just... It unloads a bunch of caterpillar phones on this table. And there's this huge stack of rugged phones and tablets. Carry on. They are surprisingly ugly, by the way. I guess. By the way. Have you seen the phones? I don't know. I wouldn't expect them to be cool. Yeah. Well, they're just like a... Would you expect a caterpillar phone to be cool? I don't know. I would expect it to look like one of those military phones with the thing. You know? But that would be cool. No, it wouldn't. Yeah, it would. Like... Wait, you mean with like the crank that they use in like... Yeah, with the crank. No, okay, not that. That's not what I thought you were talking about. That's what I thought I was talking about. I mean, that's what I was talking about. The big old Motorola's. Yeah. Oh. I've lost the thread on wearables. Werewolves. You say werewolves? Wearables. But werewolves also... I mean, I see a lot of werewolves at CES this year. You don't realize this, but a lot of children of the night here in Vegas. Yeah. Yeah. I actually have seen several... I rate it like Canthro. I wish I'd seen several vampire-esque individuals wandering the streets of Vegas. Oh, vampires, not werewolves. Well, I said children of the night. I consider werewolves and vampires to both be children of the night. Also succubi. Really? Zombies. I can't... I mean... Ghosts. Yeah. I mean, I can't... Mummies. Yeah. And chihuahuas. Chihuahuas. Angry chihuahuas. Angry chihuahuas. Yeah. I like that whoever runs the Hyundai USA Twitter account is watching the road chats right now and thanked us for mentioning them. Do we mention Hyundai? We did. Do you Hyundai? That's really... Whatever you say. Hyundai? How do you say it? Hyundai. I want to get a Korean in here to tell me exactly how to pronounce it. But no, it's... It is Korean, right? Yeah. They sell cars to American people. You can tell CES is already happening. Yeah. We're just out of control. Things do not seem normal. So let me ask you a question. Yeah. What's keeping you from... You had a Fitbit, right? I had one. You don't wear it anymore. No, it was too depressing. I started buying back up for CES because of all the wearables. I don't think anybody who works in the journalism industry... Who needs a Fitbit. Should wear a Fitbit. Yeah. Because I think it gives you a bad self-image. Of how many steps... You should... You should take more steps. It gives you an image... It gives you an idea of yourself that is... So my take on this is that there's only been three wearables in November. Go back to that shot. Go back to my single. Oh, here we go. Where did your fire go? Don't you want me here? I've been over here the whole time. What? Oh, the fire's back. Oh, God. This really is already happening. Hyundai is like Sunday, I'm told. By Hyundai USA. There you go. Sunday. Yeah. Sunday cars. Yeah. That's good. So it's just Hyundai? Hyundai. Like Sunday. What is Vampire Vegas? What was that? What was that? What was that? Oh, Vampires in Vegas. Yeah. That looks like it's great. This is a show? This is a reality. This is a sequel to Empire Records. Oh, my God. Wow. That is great. What comes to Vegas dies in Vegas. Interesting. The bloody dice. Interesting. Different kind of tagline for Vegas. What comes to Vegas dies in Vegas. I really like that. So here's my theory. There's only three wearables that have ever been successful or worthwhile. Are you saying werewolves? Werewolves. It really sounds like werewolves. There's only been three successful werewolves in history. The one from American Werewolf in London. He wasn't that successful though. The one from Paris. Yeah. And then the one from the Halle. Yeah. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Well, what about the... The Teen Wolf. And the Wolfman. Teen Wolf. So we're actually one of the three. Teen Wolf for sure. Teen Wolf 2, not so much. The original Wolfman. Sorry, Jason. Benicio del Toro's Wolfman. Isn't that movie terribly violent? I don't know. I have no idea. I think it's terribly sexy is what it is. Well, werewolves. Anyhow, there's only three successful wearables. What is this? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is it a movie? It's whatever it is. Oh, it's a book. I think you know the songs. A wild... Oh, it's a wild about you novel. A wild about you novel. Is it like the sitcom? Is it like... I get it. It's mad about you. Oh, damn it. Which by the way, would have been way better if Helen Haughan turned into a werewolf at the end of it. Like that's how it ended. No, I get it. No, I get it. Wild about you because they're like creatures. They're like animals. And they're also in love. Right. Animals in love. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're animals in love. That one... A lot of that in Vegas too actually. All right, go on. I'm just trying to say werewolves without getting back on the wheels. Okay, there's been three successful werewolves. Three. The pebble. Yeah. The Fuel band and the Fitbit. That's it. Wait a second. What about the... What about the... What about the... What about the... What about the... What about the Rebac? The Rebac Pump? No. The Pump. What? Yeah. Also sunglasses are very successful. The Rebac Pump. I think the job on Up was a fail, they had to recall it because it didn't work and they had to sell it again. The shine, that little circle is like hairs. It's by Google Glass. Yeah. Does somebody just moan? Is that a werewolf? When you say Google Glass, a werewolf is crying. You know what would be scary? A werewolf in Google Glass. Imagine that. It would be so ineffective. I'm just picturing Scoble covered in fur. I don't think you need a picture. The problem is, can you get a picture of that? I think you can. I think you can. I think you can. I think you can. I think you can. I think you can. I think you can. I think you can. I think you can. The problem is, can Google Glass be able to understand the werewolf growling, okay glass? Werewolf Bar Mitzvah. Is that a book? No, Werewolf Bar Mitzvah is a song from 30 Rock, which is an amazing song. How weird. Yeah, you know the lyrics, it's boys becoming men, men becoming wolves. Nope. Nope. Those are the lyrics. Okay, so those are the only three that we've been at it for a while and Google's been doing Glass. I think there's going to be a bar at this show, I think there's going to be tons of really crappy wearables. And I think they're all going to fall far below that level of success. They need to make them look good and they need to not overcomplicate them. I think look good is actually, here's the thing with Glass, it's not useful all the time, right? So if you're going to wear something on your body, it's got to be useful all the time. Glass is mostly not useful. It mostly does nothing. You're just a jerk. Well, unless you're on your mountain bike. It's still not too useful. Or getting a text message. Or taking pictures of your loved ones. Or traveling to a destination. You don't do those things permanently, right? Yeah, you do. If you're a good guy, if you're always checking out your loved ones. You're always texting. That'd be real deja vu. Did we have this conversation last CES? No, there was no Glass last CES. Oh yeah, that's right. Was there? I don't know. I don't really know. No, because your Google Glass piece was in our office. We moved it into the office in February. What are we talking about? I'm just saying, I think there's going to be, there's a flood of wearables coming here. Did you hear that? No. Did you hear there's a flood of werewolves coming here? That's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing flood of werewolves. Yes. Am I crazy? Is anybody else hearing this? That is what... Yeah, okay. There are people here. And you better watch it. I think you do. I don't know you. The fucking wolves are coming out. The werewolves are coming. We're done. I have a meeting. You're saying a flood of wearables. Wearables. You got to annunciate the word wearables. Wearables. Wearables. Wearables. Wearables. Wearables. Wearables. Wearables. Wearables. Wearables. Well, I think that about wraps it up. We've been on for an hour. Wednesday's a full moon. It's a nightmare over here. And I think Pebbles is going to release their newest werewolf. Oh, their newest werewolf? So do you have any other topics? Not really. Did anybody learn anything? We need to go through... I forgot what was coming. Tomorrow is a big day. Tomorrow is a big day. So NVIDIA tonight starts at eight. Last year NVIDIA's press conference was like three hours long. And they released the Shield. Which shocked the world. NVIDIA has been a shock segment of the world. NVIDIA has historically... I'm really hoping they release the sword today. NVIDIA has historically been unexciting. But they were very exciting last year, particularly because of the sexist moments of their... Do you remember there was... I don't know if anybody remembers this. Can we get a still of this? There's like the CEO was like offering a scantily clad woman a drink at a bar. Who doesn't do that? Telling her about the new GeForce chipset. Did I make that up? I don't remember. No, I think that happened. He was like, hey, check out, I'm streaming a PC game on the Shield. And then he dropped it and asked her to pick it up. And then he checked out her behind and he did that thing with his glasses where he was like that. And then the song... I've never understood the... The song, Oh Yeah, by Yellow started playing. Yes, there it is. None of that stuff. I've never understood the glasses thing, by the way. As a man who usually wears glasses. No, it's like you have your glasses on for reading and then you see a sweet car or a sweet babe across the street. Yeah, is it because I'm nearsighted? Because someone's like, check out that hot chick. What would she look like blurry? Because that's what that is for them. It makes no sense. No, you're de-blurring it so you can see more of what's going on over there. I don't understand. And then Yellow's Oh Yeah begins playing out of the blue. Okay, fine, I get it. It's like a reverse deal with it. Actually, it's like an extra deal. Never mind. No, it's a reverse deal. It falls. Reverse would go up. It's like, I can't deal with this. That's what it is. Yeah. Are we done yet? We're done. NVIDIA tonight, tomorrow morning, LG at 8am Pacific, 11am. Wait, wait, NVIDIA what time? NVIDIA's tonight at 8am. Tonight at 8am. And that will probably go from 8 to 8. That's 11 o'clock East Coast. Correct. So if you're on the East Coast, if you're not in Los Angeles... Do not sleep, ever. 11 o'clock, NVIDIA's going to do something sexy or sexist or amazing. Or all three. We'll see. It'll have chips. Yeah. Tomorrow morning, 8am, 11am Eastern is LG. Obviously, it's web watched TV. Life's good. Life's good. And probably some washing machines. You never know, it's LG. They do a lot of things. Or washing machines as they call them in the South. You two are going to be back at this desk after LG is done. What? You two are going to be here for the Verge Live. Oh yeah, Dieter and I are going to do... Oh, that's right. We're going to have post-game analysis. Not NVIDIA tonight because it's so crazy ass late. But tomorrow after the first LG event, which is at 8 in the morning, 11am. And basically starting from 8, we're going to have all these press conferences streaming on our video hub. Yep. And live blogs. We'll have video for basically 11 hours tomorrow between press conferences, Verge Live, hands-ons, interviews, all that stuff that's going on tomorrow. So just put this in your pipe and smoke it, Mobile Accomplishers. Is that what you call them? Yes. Dieter really didn't want to acknowledge that. Dieter, Bones, and Josh Dupolsky, two webOS aficionados, will be critiquing the webOS TV following the webOS TV announcement. Right. Yeah. Buckle up, Mobile Accomplishers. And then Samsung is at 2pm, followed by another Verge Live, which I figure who's going to be on that one. Could be anybody. I'll probably be around because I'm... Valve and Sony, I'm actually going to be live-blogging Sony because it's a tradition of mine. Valve and Sony are doing something together? No, no, they're at the same time. That would be the same, wouldn't it? They're having it at the same time. Yeah. That would be... Sony's making a steam box. They're like, you know what the PS4 is? It's a little... And Sony, there's big stuff going on with Sony because they got Phil Molyneux's ad, they've got a new president. It's cause he's won Sony. So Sony's at 5, and actually it's... We're right in front of Central Hall, our kind of setup here has moved this year. So I'm going to live-blog Sony and come straight back here, and we're going to do the Vergecast instead of a Verge live right after Sony at 6. By the way, people are really mad that I cut you off from talking about wearables by asking if you were talking about werewolves. Oh, here's the thing. Most werewolves suck. Werewolves? Most werewolves suck. Most werewolves suck. I think you're thinking of vampires. Werewolves are cool. Who laughed? Who laughed at that? Was that John? It was good. Really? Okay. He'd laugh at anything, though, so I'm not going to take too much. I'm not going to feel like that was a freebie. Whatever, man. Team Edward. We'll have live-blogs for most of these. Did you just say Team Edward? I don't know what I just said. I'm sorry. Did anybody hear him say Team Edward under his breath? He did. Edward is one of the worst all-time characters ever in the history of... I've only ever seen one of those movies. You should see all of your three movies. Here's what I remember. You should see all of them. The only thing I remember about that movie, I'll admit... You've got to see the last two. It was very late at night. I had come out from a night being out. Out, out. And I watched the baseball scene, which has some of the worst CGI. Oh, my God. The first movie is like a work of art. No, I'm not even kidding. I'm not sure... The first movie is like a high art. It's like a weird... It's like a B movie. Yeah. It's like Plan 9 from Outer Space, but it's the most popular young adult novel of all time. And it's about vampires and werewolves. It's based on Sparkle. Extremely celibate. Sparkle. Sparkle. I just like just rewatch the first movie and tell me if you don't think every time Bella and Edward speak to one another, it looks like they're both about to throw up. They ate something very bad. There's so many looks in that movie. Can we get a little bit of... How did we even find this? They just did. Just look at... They're going to talk to each other. Just get a look at them. Look. Look. He's sick. No, no, no, no, no. He's been alive for so long. Show any... Look. She looks totally nauseous in every one of these shots. Look. Okay, they were smiling there, which is weird. See, you can't really tell them this. You need to see an extended... Can we get just a shot of them? Oh my God. It's so bad. No, but you need to see the last two. I don't really want to. The end of the... What are the last two films called? Breaking Dawn. Breaking Dawn parts one and two. The end of Breaking Dawn part one is so disturbing that you will never forget what happens, and it will mess you up permanently. Well, I got to go, because I got to go watch Breaking Dawn part one. You really should see all of them. All right. Look, we're going to have a Twilight marathon after the press conference is tomorrow, after the Verge cast. We're just... Through that tonight, we're just going to run Twilight. Does that make sense? Yeah. Anything else going on tomorrow? Makes perfect sense. We're just going to have a lot of stuff. I look at our calendar and it's a bit of pain. I want to tell you guys that our stream is just running tomorrow, so you can hit... You can literally hit play in our video player at 8 a.m. tomorrow morning and just let it run all day. We're going to be broadcasting nonstop. I don't even know what's happening. I'm just laughing at... Laura June is quoting you. What did I do? I think there are going to be tons of crappy werewolves. Now that we know that the word wearables and werewolves are so closely connected, we need to do something special with that. I don't know what it is, but I feel like we've just started to unlock the specialness of CES. It's happening. I think that we've just begun to taste the sweet nectar of the nonsense that is the Verge at CES. Yeah. Delicious, succulent, moist nectar of CES. I'm letting you live with that all by yourself. Moist nectar. Moist, succulent, and moist. Isn't it moist by... Definitely, never mind. Yes, moisture by... The moisture does seem to be implied when you say nectar, but this is a particularly moist nectar, is what I'm saying, and succulent. This is not a Wikipedia entry I ever thought I'd read. What are you reading? In botany, succulent plants, also known as the succulents or sometimes the fat plants, are plants having some parts that are more normally thickened and fleshy. That's disgusting. It's hard for the fat plants. Yeah, turning tomorrow, we're going to have a lot more werewolves. We're going to have coverage of 4K. Werewolves in 4K. Yeah, 4K werewolves. What else? That's my new band name. What else is there? Is that it? Tomorrow is the news day. Yeah, there's a lot of... Tomorrow and Tuesday are the biggest stages of news at CES. Tomorrow morning, the Verge is going to get real gadgety, real CES-y. We should talk about that a little bit. So we're going to get real gadgety, but we have a big CES hub, and then we have a CES wire. Yeah, that's right, because we're not going to put everything on the front page. If you're looking for everything, I strongly suggest you go to the CES hub. We also have a news wire, which is basically like the dream of the Verge 1 Percenters, which is a blog, basically a blog of every single thing that we hit at CES. I think if you saw our coverage last year, you know we're going to do it a little bit differently. We are not going to hit every story. We're not going to cover every router. You will not see... We're not going to cover every router. What? We're not going to be... All my plans are ruined. Here's what we're doing. We're trying to find the most interesting, coolest stuff and put it on our pages for you guys to read about. We have some really, really cool stories tomorrow. Already we've got a handful of things that I think are pretty fascinating. I've already done at least one thing that I think perfectly sums up why I want to be at CES every year, and it's not just the werewolves. That's why I'm here. It's not just the werewolves. God, I wish there was a technology that sounded like vampires. That's everyone's homework for the night. Think of a technology that sounds like vampires. Think of what is a technology that when you say it out loud could be mistaken for you saying vampires. And then we will make a Twilight remix. Zombie also could be good if you can think of something that sounds like zombies. We'll be eating bacon. Well, Neal, I will. Oh, boy. Oh, also, that's the other thing. We're doing... Every day we're doing this thing called No Filter, which is a stream of our tweets and our Instagrams and just random shit that we're doing here at CES that you guys... It's live updating. It's like a live blog, essentially. It's just us being the verge at CES. It's weird. It's backstage. It's behind the scenes. Here's a... Everybody working hard with this. CES unveiled right now, too. Scroll down a little so they can see what's going on. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on. We're doing weird pictures from the trailer and stuff that we go do. And, oh, my God, another plane. Yeah, I think that's a sign. That's definitely a sign. That's a plane full of werewolves. What was that? Oh, my God, is it a backhoe? Oh, my God, is it a backhoe? Oh, my God, is it a backhoe? Oh, my God, is it a backhoe? No, like the tent, like, shook. It was a backhoe hitting us. It's gonna be fine. It might be. All right, that's the Vergecast for Sunday night at CES. We'll be back tomorrow. Right after Sony. No, after LG. Oh, the Vergecast will be back tomorrow after Sony in the evening, but we'll be back broadcasting, doing live coverage. We'll have live streams of shows. We will have live analysis afterwards. We're gonna have tons of product videos and hands-ons and all sorts of crazy stuff, reports. Tomorrow is where it gets really crazy, so stay tuned to The Verge. And we'll be back tomorrow night. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, even though they're probably going to be attacked by werewolves. That's the end of the show. That's the end of the show. That's the end of the show. That's the end of the show. That's the end of the show. That's the end of the show. That's the end of the show. That's the end of the show. That's the end of the show.
 Hey, and welcome to the first of many shocking and troubling Vergecasts from CES 2014.
 I'm Josh Dupolsky. I'm Neelay Patel. I'm Niederbohm.
 Neelay Patel, deeply, deeply interested in what's happening right now.
 By the way, perfect timing for an enormous jet to fly over the Las Vegas Convention Center.
 Can you hear that? I can. Well, we can hear it. Can you out there hear it? At any rate.
 So, this is it. Sunday night. We're here. The eve. It's happening.
 The eve before. The eve. The calm before the storm. Yeah.
 The small storm before the big storm. We already had a squall.
 You know, we had, what we actually had was a terrible winter storm that moved in across the East Coast, sidelining many of our writers, editors.
 My suitcase. Several people were, do you still not have your suitcase?
 I don't have my suitcase. No, you do. I do not. You're lying. I do not. Are you lying?
 I wake up every morning and I call Delta Airlines. You wake up every morning and you're crying.
 I asked them for my pants off. Wondering why this has happened to you.
 No, so we had a winter storm that sidelined a lot of people that made it very difficult to get out here, but now we're in beautiful downtown Las Vegas.
 That's not a place, right? Downtown Las Vegas doesn't exist.
 No, it's a place. Does that exist? It's being revitalized. Is there a downtown?
 We're nowhere near it. Okay. We're nowhere near it, I'm being told.
 But, Teeter. Anyhow, but we're here now. CES is starting to happen.
 Yeah. You can make a real argument about what day of CES this is.
 We've had that argument all day. Is it zero? Is it day negative one? Is it day one?
 Is Monday an official day? No. It's Tuesday. Tuesday is day one.
 According to them. I could have this conversation all night long.
 The reality is that today was the first warm-up day, and tomorrow is press conference day.
 And the rest of it is just people wandering. The rest of it is bedlam.
 There's going to be blood. There's going to be passion.
 The two things will usually be connected. I have to say, I've been reading a lot of backlash to CES.
 Always backlash. But I love it here. It's a party.
 I don't get the backlash. I did something today that will be up on the site tomorrow that perfectly typifies why we come to CES.
 Whatever. So products are announced here, they never come out. They don't move the needle.
 You know what it is? A bunch of people making the weirdest crap they can.
 Don't be bitter about what didn't happen. Be excited about what did happen.
 That's the way I see it. Mr. Positivity is how I'm known.
 I'm forcing the positivity. I'm very depressed. Amongst friends?
 Yeah, well, before we get into the Vergecast stuff.
 I'm alone.
 Before we talk about the new cyber toothbrush that was announced tonight.
 I am indeed excited and disturbed by the...
 I want to talk about Neal. I had a great loss today.
 My team lost to the Niners.
 A great personal loss.
 His sports team that he personally feels attached to.
 I'm a shareholder.
 A shareholder of his sports team.
 Wow. Did you disclose that?
 I own one share that grants me nothing.
 The Green Bay Packers, they can't even give you a win.
 Not even a win in the playoffs.
 Would it be too much to ask?
 The Green Bay Packers lost. We're brutally trounced.
 Crushed by 3 points.
 I have no idea what happened in the game.
 All I know is somebody tweeted that they were losing.
 All you know is justice was served.
 We were coming back from this thing that I went to do that you guys don't know about yet.
 The thing that's cool.
 And I saw somebody tweet that they were losing.
 And my first thought was, oh boy, Neal is going to be a nightmare.
 He's going to be a nightmare when I get back.
 So apparently his sports team lost.
 I'm drunk right now. Let's be honest.
 Drunk with sad.
 But I'll get through. Let's talk about the CS.
 So this is kind of like the first day.
 There's an event today called CS Unveiled.
 Our whole team was just there.
 I'm looking at the news right now.
 It was tight. It was tight as hell.
 So it's weird because Quantified Soft is a big theme of the show.
 Everybody's Quantified Soft.
 We're going to measure everything.
 The only one out of the gate is a smart toothbrush.
 The Colibri smart toothbrush that claims to track how well it brushes.
 It can tell where in your mouth it's brushing.
 That's actually kind of awesome.
 I refuse to believe it.
 And then it grains you on the quality of like, you got this kid.
 This is a total gimmick.
 Yeah.
 Total gimmick.
 Which I am going to buy.
 I mean, do you think you have trouble brushing?
 Look, it's electronic vibrations echo the rapid beatings of the Colibri Hummingbird.
 Oh my God.
 That's how they named it.
 No.
 I'm not even kidding.
 Shut up.
 I'm not lying.
 That's not real.
 That's true.
 Really?
 Yeah.
 That's why they named it.
 It's like a hummingbird's inside your mouth.
 By the way, judging you.
 Judging you on how good you're teaching.
 Our author, Sam Byford, gets an award for best sub-headline of the day, chomping at
 the Fitbit.
 Oh yeah, that's good.
 That's really good.
 That's great.
 So all this stuff is happening.
 I actually wanted to start by-
 Isn't it a champagne?
 Well, that's the joke.
 It's a two-level joke.
 No, I get it.
 But we've had this conversation before.
 So we actually, it's weird because a lot of-
 Wait a second.
 I'm sorry.
 Let me interrupt you.
 I'm getting a report from Twitter that our audio is all over the place.
 Oh, yeah.
 That it's bouncing between left and right channels.
 I think they're right.
 Are we aware of this?
 Did you guys put the audio bouncer on the...
 It was an effect.
 That was on purpose.
 Yeah.
 Can you do the telephone effect on my voice, guys?
 But only when he says something like remix.
 Remix.
 Wait, a lot of background noise.
 Now I'm hearing.
 Audio keeps shifting left and right channels.
 Well, listen, it's not like we know anything about technology.
 We're doing the best that we can.
 You'll have to forgive us if we can't get the audio to sound not completely insane.
 All right, anyhow, what were you saying?
 No, it's just weird.
 This year's show is going to be an extension of what happened last year.
 Well, last year CS was supposed to be the ultimate valley of how important the show
 was.
 And it actually showed up.
 All these indie companies showed up and they made it, I think, one of the best CSs ever.
 I agree.
 I agree.
 And this year is very much a continuation of that.
 So Pebble was here last year.
 They were kind of the darling of the show.
 They're back again this year.
 I think they actually have a press conference that we're going to get to.
 Oculus was here.
 They were, I think, the star of our show, although their product at that time was like
 ski goggles with duct tape.
 Yeah, literally duct taped ski goggles.
 This year they're announcing they're showing off the next generation of their product.
 So there's all this stuff that's happening over and over again.
 And the classic sort of categories that happen at CS, it's like there is Samsung's TV, the
 Easel, which was beautiful.
 I thought it was hilarious.
 I thought it was beautiful, but it was like a $40,000 TV that no one could buy.
 Like who would ever watch all those weird laptops, the Helix, all those Windows 8 convertibles,
 most of them pretty much in a flop, except for I think the yoga ones.
 And then there was a bunch of wearables last year, which aside from Pebble, never went
 anywhere.
 So this year it's kind of like we're going to see that resurgence again.
 I think my expectations of the big players are the same.
 They're very low.
 My expectations of the smaller players are very high.
 Although the big players, especially with 4K, I'm hoping that what we see is like we
 saw the insane, expensive, crazy show off TVs last year, the concept cars.
 And I'm hoping that we see 4K like maybe not the mass is quite yet.
 What was the bet that we had last year?
 I had a bet that 4K TVs would be like affordable, like $1,000 within like five years.
 And I think we're going to get there this year next.
 There's actually a 4K TV you can buy.
 Yeah that thing is a piece of crap, the Seiki.
 Yeah the Seiki.
 I mean you were right.
 I guess you nailed it.
 The Seiki is available for $1,000.
 I refuse to win a bet.
 I don't know, I want to check you out.
 That's like winning a playoff game by Phil Gilthom.
 Oh boy, here we go with the playoffs.
 It's cheap.
 I mean you can be proud of yourself.
 So what does this mean now?
 The Packers can't go to the Super Bowl?
 Yeah.
 They're not going to be going to the Super Bowl?
 No, they're going to go home.
 It's like that.
 Just like me.
 They need rest.
 Just like you.
 They need to take a nap.
 So stuff has happened already by the way.
 We should show a little bit of this Corvette video.
 Chris Ziegler is here.
 He is on the Carbeat at CES.
 It's one of his many beats but it...
 Cars at CES and CR are a huge deal.
 Really, really huge deal.
 So we actually took Chris and told him all he has...
 If he's not driving a car, he's screwing up day to day.
 So Chris went into a Corvette and one of our video...
 I think it was Zach went with him with a drone.
 So Chevy is adding basically a built-in GoPro to the Corvette with all kinds of tracking
 devices.
 It basically turns driving this car like doing hot laps into a video game.
 And when you play it back, you can share it.
 It shows you all your metrics.
 And basically Chris got to blast a Corvette around the desert.
 We have a monitor turned.
 Does anybody know?
 It would be great to be able to see what's on that screen.
 But anyhow, so yeah, so that was...
 There has been a...
 I mean, there does seem to be an increase...
 The car focus is out of control.
 Yeah.
 I mean, I just...
 The thing I just went to see that you guys will see tomorrow is a car related device.
 That's not the right way to describe it.
 But there is something I think somewhat exciting happening in cars right now.
 And I kind of blame Tesla.
 I feel like Tesla's put the spotlight on car technology in a way that shows that you can
 do something more ambitious than just put a better stereo in it or do voice...
 And other than the Prius, when's the last time we've had that?
 We've had a huge drought of exciting things happening with cars.
 It's weird because if you look at the pieces of the cars that are...
 It's...
 I mean, that Corvette really is like a fancier...
 It's in the vein of a fancier stereo, right?
 Let's take an existing car and bolt technology on it.
 It's awesome because it's a Corvette.
 With Tesla, it was like they reinvented a car.
 Like Hyundai is here, Chevy is here, BMW is here, Audi is here.
 These guys, they're kind of like taking existing cars and existing hybrids and sort of like...
 They are in a way adding on the stereo stuff.
 I think it's always been a car show and that they've always had a big chunk of this show
 where it was dedicated to cars, but it was for a really long time, it was new stereos
 and GPS units and like speak...
 It wasn't really technology that was moving the ball forward at all, I think, for autos.
 And it definitely feels like that's changing.
 Because a lot of those things, those traditional things have been eaten by the smartphone.
 And that's like, I'm never gonna buy a GPS unit, I'm just gonna use my phone.
 It's never gonna occur to me to have a GPS unit.
 My car stereo, all I really wanted to be is an audio and jack and a volume control.
 I feel like it's the last couple of years have been the worst ever for Garmin.
 Yeah.
 Like TomTom and all that.
 Yeah, I mean, is TomTom still in business?
 I think they sell maps.
 The fact that I'm asking that I think is a great example of the trouble that they've
 had, a great sign of the times.
 It's true though, I mean, but a lot of the technology is, there's still some frivolous
 stuff.
 Yeah, but that's what makes it great.
 I mean, that's why I love this show.
 Like I actually thoroughly enjoy like frivolous, hilarious technology because it's frivolous
 and hilarious.
 Yeah.
 And the fact that everybody's here, they're all seeing what's going to stick next.
 I mean, that's kind of how it CCS, right?
 This is like the desperate search for the next big thing.
 Yeah.
 And everyone's just throwing stuff at the wall.
 Desperate is definitely the right word to use.
 But it's like a fun desperate.
 Yeah.
 I mean, I think...
 It's like a late college party desperate.
 I just think, yeah, there's a, well, late night party is sort of right.
 I think there's, but I think the thing about it is there's a lot of, like there is plenty
 of bad stuff, but there are some really interesting things.
 I don't know if we've seen any of the most interesting things yet.
 No.
 I think the shabby thing is somewhat interesting.
 I mean, Chris is going to literally be driving and reporting on driving cars like all week.
 Yeah.
 And there's a lot going on.
 And then he's going to die because there's nothing else that would make him happier.
 That this is the peak of his entire life.
 Playing with cars for a week in the desert.
 So we should go through some basic.
 Let's talk.
 So we talked a little bit about cars.
 We should talk about TVs.
 Like there are some big categories that are always at the show.
 I think TVs is a big one.
 We've already seen it was leaked yesterday that LG is going to announce the webOS TV.
 Oh, they like, I think they said it.
 They said it and then we saw some pictures.
 They're going to have a big presence for this.
 It's nice that the two of you are here to talk about webOS.
 I have up right now.
 I have my free part 10,000 word palm pre-review from Engadget.
 And I've been like going over it and just going like, God, I wish webOS had happened.
 And I really wish it had happened the way I thought it was going to happen when I wrote
 this review.
 And I got to say, even now webOS looks.
 Oh, that webOS.
 The original webOS.
 The original webOS.
 Even now webOS looks either as current, if not a little bit more current than a lot of
 modern OS.
 Well, I mean, we did the story about the last webOS, what they were actually planning.
 Yeah, the stuff they were planning is awesome.
 I mean, it's disappointing to say the least.
 I just think the fact that LG, like, yeah.
 Why?
 It's just like, webOS.
 It's going to be on it.
 Here's the thing with smart TVs, like, they're never going to do anything good.
 It's going to be a TV with apps on it.
 And maybe the apps are going to be a little bit better.
 But it's still not going to be television.
 The problem with smart TVs is that it requires-
 There's a cable box.
 Well, yeah, but it also requires that you buy LG's interface.
 If this interface is real, by the way, it looks like racing stripes.
 That's what it looks like to me.
 It looks like a European car with racing stripes, which maybe is cool.
 Maybe you're into that.
 But I just don't understand what it is they're trying to do with that.
 But they need webOS to do that.
 Why do they need this operating system to make that work?
 Yeah, I mean, I think it's, well, they have it.
 That's the first thing.
 They're like, we bought this thing.
 They didn't have it before.
 I mean, it is a framework for making apps and for an interface.
 The thing about smart TVs is the competition for making something that doesn't suck is
 super low.
 Every smart TV I've ever looked at the interface, I want to go away from it so fast.
 I bought a new TV, which is, until these 4K TVs become the mainstream, it's supposed
 to be the best TV ever.
 This Panasonic plasma, they're discontinued.
 I bought it on the way out.
 It is the most, everything about using this TV except for watching television is terrible.
 The grid of apps, the fact that it has a camera that pops up by itself, you can leave video
 messages using it.
 No, really?
 It physically pops up?
 But it doesn't go back down on its own.
 You have to get up and watch the TV.
 That's like the open tray on a Bluetooth speaker.
 Does it have a motor or is it just like out of spring?
 It just pops up.
 Wow.
 Actually, those close.
 What am I talking about?
 That should be able to close by itself.
 It doesn't close by itself.
 Everything about what Panasonic tried to do with this television except for make a beautiful
 picture is a huge fail.
 That makes zero sense.
 That's kind of where LG, I think, was with software.
 You look at what LG and Samsung started out with Android on their phones and you're like,
 wow, that disaster has only gotten slightly better.
 Things may be accelerating a little bit faster than LG.
 I think LG's Android phones are still disastrous.
 That's awful.
 I see why they would want to buy an operating system and designers and experts to make their
 smart TV to get a jump in that market.
 At the end of the day, you're going to turn all that stuff off and you're going to use
 your Comcast box.
 You're just going to keep winning that fight.
 I'll say this.
 I just got a Roku 3 and I think they've made some real strides in getting...the search
 alone is kind of a killer feature where it'll just show you where something is available.
 What's crazy to me is this whole idea that we're going to do...and you see this on everything.
 I use the Amazon app on my Panasonic TV and it's terrible.
 But here's the thing.
 Every app is different.
 Every app has a different interface.
 And Netflix has its own interface and Hulu has its own interface and HBO Go has its own
 interface and they're so wildly inconsistent.
 The one thing I'll say that Apple has right is they're basically like, we're not going
 to let you make apps for us.
 We're going to make your apps.
 That's the only way that I think this can work.
 The problem with LG doing it, let's say that everyone...and it's not going to be the case,
 but let's say hypothetically LG has every app is hand coded by LG to fit into their
 interface or whatever.
 First off the cable issue, that's still insurmountable in some ways.
 But then it's like if Netflix makes an app and Hulu makes an app, those apps aren't going
 to have the same language.
 And for users it's extremely confusing when you're doing the same thing.
 I mean, Hulu doesn't do anything different than Netflix.
 It shows you videos.
 That's all it does.
 It plays videos.
 But going from one to the other is like night and day.
 So how can we expect to, how can any of these people expect to make a cohesive experience
 for consumers when they have to keep relying on somebody else's UI design?
 Right.
 But the thing with webOS in particular, and I've heard Samsung say this to you and I strongly
 suspect based on a year ago when I talked to LG when they bought webOS that their whole
 plan is to lean really heavily on HTML apps, web apps basically.
 Samsung's doing the same thing with their TV.
 I mean, they don't want to build platforms for televisions because those platforms.
 Are you about to hand out web apps as that was coming?
 No, I'm saying that if you, you know, Netflix is a web app, right?
 It's an HTML5 app.
 Yeah.
 It just deploys.
 And so they've handed over not even just like the little bit of control to like, here's
 some UI primitives and like make an app that looks like an iPhone app the way Apple does
 or like make an app that looks like an Android app the way Google does.
 It's, here's the web.
 Like you make a web app and it'll just show up on our TV and there's not even like any
 internal consistency to how you navigate those things because there can't be.
 And there was with webOS.
 That's what I'm curious about.
 Are they going to keep any of that?
 Who knows, right?
 And like, I don't, if all they really wanted was a really great like HTML rendering engine,
 it's like, I still don't know why they bought webOS.
 But I suspect it's all just designers.
 I mean, we'll see.
 It's like.
 At the end of the day, like you're not, you're not going to change the world with your smart
 TV because like you're not going to own the ecosystem, you're not going to get a huge
 market share because your smart TV is so great because people have a long upgrade cycle and
 they just use what they've got.
 And then if they want something better, they'll plug a box into it.
 So like the most you can expect from a smart TV, you can't expect it to solve like the
 cable problem.
 You can't expect it to like have a IR blaster to control your other things or do it all
 over HDMI, CEC or whatever it's called because that's a mess.
 So like the most you can expect is like just have apps and an interface that don't suck.
 And if they can reach that bar, they'll actually be doing better.
 But it's not going to be world changing.
 It's just going to be like a nice TV that isn't painful to use.
 And what's sad is that that's better than what most TVs are.
 I mean, I can't believe we're still talking about it.
 I mean, not this in particular, but how many years has it been this conversation about
 all the TVs, the next front?
 I mean, literally like a year or two years after the iPhone, like when it was known that
 it was a successful project and that people wanted it and it was a good product and people
 were buying it, project and product.
 People were like TVs, the next frontier.
 When are they going to crack TV?
 And we've like 76 years or whatever we've been saying like, when are they going to crack
 TV?
 And it's getting, but can I ask a question?
 Why do I have the fire behind me?
 Is this because it's after hours?
 Is that what the thing is?
 Okay, I just couldn't remember because it seems like you've got this nice background.
 Every time I see you on the monitor, like, oh, that's a cool background.
 And it's like, it's like Legend of Zelda.
 It's like Legend of Zelda behind me.
 It's a good fire.
 It's true.
 You do have nothing.
 It's home.
 But like, I'm getting really tired of the TV conversation.
 It's just like, I feel like there is no winning this.
 I feel like you've got too many interests from major players who have no reason.
 They're all making money.
 They've no reason to give up ground.
 I mean, if Apple could like somehow think of a way or LG could think of a way and they're
 not going to, or Samsung could think of a way to bring the TV industry to its knees
 and the movie industry and go like, check it out, guys.
 Now you got to come around to our way of thinking.
 Then you might have something, but they can't do it.
 The way that you would think they would do that is they would be able to move a ton of
 units that like gives them power.
 Right.
 So they-
 Yeah, sure, half the homes in America have LG smart TVs and then LG could be like, hey,
 guys.
 Right.
 We're going to get a 4K, we'll see.
 We need, there's nothing to make people go out and buy them.
 Also, it should be noted that for the average consumer, the possibilities of getting more
 TV and better TV have never been bigger and greater.
 I mean, I understand it's a pain in the ass, but it's still like Amazon Prime is like making
 shows that are actually somewhat decent.
 Only one, betas.
 I watch it.
 It's not that bad, honestly.
 Is that the Frat House one?
 No, it's the one, they have this funny, they have a show called Alpha House and they have
 a show called Betas, which is a Silicon Valley show that startup do.
 That's awful.
 It's pretty horrible most of the time, but sometimes it's actually-
 I haven't watched it yet.
 It's really good when they don't focus on anything having to do with the startup world.
 If they focus on anything that's like tech or startup, it's almost unwatchable.
 It's cool job syndrome.
 It's like every 90s, maybe people had cool jobs.
 Like Reality Bytes, Ben Stiller was like, I design Super Trains.
 It was like, that's not a real job.
 Ben Stiller's job in Reality Bytes was like a programmer.
 The other guy, the other boyfriend had Super Trains.
 This guy finished last design training.
 And Ben Stiller was the-
 Wait a second, wait a second.
 Ben Stiller was like an exact producer at MTV.
 And Ethan Hawke, not Ethan Hawke.
 Ethan Hawke was just a stoner.
 Who's the other person?
 I'm going to just go ahead and say right now in my mind, Empire Records, Reality Bytes,
 and the third one, which is actually the one I'm thinking of, are all completely messed
 up.
 I have no idea who he's talking about.
 I was going to say, you guys were talking about singles.
 Yeah, singles.
 But he was a Super Train designer.
 I feel like Empire Records is way later.
 In that genre?
 Yeah, it's like several years after the Reality Bytes singles.
 When people put those in those categories, I'm like, Gen Y.
 Yeah.
 No, that's Gen X, dude.
 Well, no, the other two movies are Gen X.
 Reality Bytes and singles are Gen X.
 Empire Records is Gen Y.
 Empire Records is Gen Y.
 Yeah.
 And if you think they go together, that means you're Gen Y.
 That's right.
 No, he's Gen Y.
 They're all just mixed up in my head.
 I'm Gen Y, and we're on the cusp.
 You guys are old.
 We're very old.
 I'm so old that I'm getting Andy Rooney-ish about TV solutions.
 I'm like, stop talking about their world.
 They're three years apart.
 What are you talking about?
 Hey, a lot happened.
 A lot of shit went down in three years, okay?
 Anyhow, I just don't want to talk about smart TVs anymore, okay?
 No one does.
 Can we have a...
 Okay, you guys are insane.
 Reality Bytes came out one year before Empire Records.
 Well, it feels like a lifetime based on what happened in between Reality Bytes and Empire
 Records.
 And Singles was first.
 Yeah, Singles was the one.
 Yeah.
 Singles...
 With the best soundtrack.
 What is that, 93?
 Singles was really the love, actually, of the genre.
 92, and then Reality Bytes, 94?
 Yeah.
 And Empire Records, 95.
 Yeah.
 That all sounds right, because in 95, shit got whack.
 It all got bad in 95.
 What happened in 95?
 I think you know the truth.
 In my heart.
 You hit 95, and things started to get really bad.
 And 96 is when I knew it was over.
 Oh, 96 was a dead hell.
 96 was the year I graduated high school.
 Exactly.
 That's exactly what we're talking about.
 Yeah.
 But things got really lame in 95.
 What Empire Records did.
 You know what?
 That was like the era of Batman and Robin.
 What year was Batman and Robin?
 Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin?
 I bet it was 95.
 94?
 97.
 97.
 That's when you knew it was over.
 No, no.
 You're so deep.
 What was the first Joel Schumacher Batman?
 The one with Val Kilmer.
 Oh, man.
 That was...
 Am I making this up, or did that happen?
 No, that happened.
 It feels like I'm making this up.
 That was the nipple Batman.
 That was the nipple... that was Schumacher on the move.
 Yeah.
 Just making it happen.
 Just making it happen.
 You really...
 By the way, when you look up Joel Schumacher on...
 I'm sure this is being tweeted at me right now.
 His Wikipedia page literally is like the Brat Pack, John Grisham, Batman, and then post
 Batman career, because I'm pretty sure that Batman destroyed his career.
 What the hell is the third...
 Batman Forever.
 Batman Forever.
 What year is that?
 95.
 I rest my case.
 The show's over.
 It did have Kiss from a Rose by Seal.
 Kiss from a Rose is a great song on the library.
 So on the one hand, bad movie.
 On the other hand, great song.
 Seal, mysterious character.
 Very mysterious.
 Yeah.
 Okay, let's move on to Holmes.
 Anyhow, I would just rather not...
 Oh, man.
 By the way, somebody just tweeted at me that the year they were born was 1996.
 Yeah, it all went to hell.
 You're the generation...
 You're the problem.
 Yeah.
 You're the problem.
 Yeah.
 Okay.
 The super trans...
 You know what I hate?
 Is that what Andy Rie said?
 What?
 You know what I hate?
 Is that his thing?
 I'm sure he said that.
 Okay, go ahead.
 Well, actually, there's one more thing about TVs.
 The other thing that is important, which is the TVs we're talking about, the problems
 we're talking about are all sort of HD problems, and then the next big problem is how to get
 4K content.
 I'm so sick of 4K.
 I'm already over 4K.
 You're just done?
 You're just never gonna get one?
 I mean, we know that...
 I don't want to get one.
 I don't get it.
 We know 4K is gonna be followed by 8K, so why not just do 8K right now?
 Because it's taking them five years to get a 4K...
 No, I don't buy it.
 It's just make more pixels.
 No, the problem...
 Get your pixel machine.
 Get your pixel machine, start it up, and just private print double the amount of pixels.
 Yeah, that'll work.
 And then glue that to a sheet, and then sell that to someone at the TV, because that's
 how it's done, as far as I know.
 I mean, when you saw HD, you're like, wow, this looks great.
 When you saw 4K, you were like, wow, this kind of looks like HD.
 Yes, I had that same reaction.
 Well, yeah, this looks pretty good, I guess.
 I have a friend who is a super high-end home theater person.
 You always have a friend.
 I do, I have a lot of friends.
 Yeah, you have a lot of friends.
 And they had the new Sony 4K TV in their office, and I definitely went over there, and we
 definitely sat around just watching the demo content.
 What else is there to watch?
 It was great, man.
 It was like an hour.
 Tulips?
 You know, it was like...
 Butterfalls?
 Yeah, some...
 Like a ladybug on a leaf.
 Yeah, it was under the sea, man.
 Fish.
 Oh, fish.
 Of course, of course.
 That's a whole different...
 Knocked a pussy's ass like a tenfold.
 A lot of people kept running out in the hallway and then coming back and being even more impressed
 with the fish.
 Really?
 You kind of know what I'm saying?
 I just...
 Look, I get it.
 I know it's going to take time, but seriously, do you really believe in 4K?
 For the big...
 Yeah.
 You want to hit your wagon in 4K?
 Yeah, I think people are going to start buying the Cs.
 What about 6K?
 What about 6K?
 Dude, over the holidays, I was in Best Buy, and they're already pushing them to consumers,
 and people are already like, ooh, that one.
 You were in the Sakai?
 No.
 You were in the Best Buy, looking at the 6K IT?
 No.
 Samsung and Sony and LG, they're all...
 I mean, they're the big players in the industry.
 They've already got the products in stores, and it's going to be just like HD was.
 Does that sound normal?
 No.
 That's the cat.
 Yeah.
 That's the cat.
 Right outside of our Studio 10 here, Caterpillar is selling rugged phones.
 And to show you how rugged they are...
 They have a giant crane.
 Right now, they're...
 They brought a bulldozer.
 They're bulldozing the phones.
 Yeah.
 And the phones are just...
 The phones are fine.
 Don't worry about it.
 You can drop them on the work site.
 Okay.
 The TVs are coming, right?
 They've got to get the content there.
 Yeah.
 Nobody has answers.
 I think YouTube is going to do something here.
 I think Netflix will probably do something here.
 We didn't have answers last year.
 Well, we had a demo on Netflix.
 We didn't have answers this year.
 Yeah, I think...
 I mean, it's been a year.
 If they don't have more answers, then there's nothing to say.
 But isn't the biggest problem bandwidth?
 Yeah.
 So, until we solve bandwidth, which, as far as I can tell, like, Time Warner and Comcast
 are throttling because they don't have enough of it to give out to people.
 That's what they claim.
 I think...
 Well, I don't know why.
 I think they're 100 percent...
 They're happy to tell you that if you seem to be using excess of their network, they'll
 throttle your ass.
 Right.
 I think they want to create...
 They want to make it seem like you always need to buy...
 They're just like the carriers of anybody else.
 They want to make it seem like you need to buy more because it's too slow and you're
 using so much.
 Right.
 And then they will turn around and say, well, our users aren't even using as much as they
 have.
 So, 4K for them is a...
 It's a win-win, right?
 They get to say, well, you need more to do 4K.
 And they get to turn around and say, well, government, we need less regulation because
 look at these new uses that we have to give to our customers.
 You think that's what it's going to be?
 Yeah, this is...
 The 4K is going to be the mover?
 This is like our hotel has Wi-Fi and you can either get the free tier and it says, like,
 good for email.
 Which is a joke.
 And then the fast tier is like, good for video.
 I don't think they know what email is like in the modern era.
 The email has images in it.
 It's not good for any email unless you're literally sending me HTML.
 I have for Pine.
 Oh, okay.
 Yeah, if you're using a command line.
 If you're watching singles and you...
 The Internet at the hotel is great.
 All right, so then the next one on our list, we talked about cars, we talked about TVs.
 I think smart homes are going to be a big deal here.
 There's all kinds of sensors.
 Smart homes?
 There's all kinds of sensors and stuff happening here.
 But we need...
 That's an area that is really, I hate myself for saying this, ripe for disruption.
 It's ripe for getting a bunch of this stuff to actually talk to each other and not be
 a million dollars to do it.
 Yeah.
 We need to work together.
 But when you think what you could do...
 Yeah, well, the issue is standards.
 But also, cohesive systems that are designed intelligently for the home don't really exist.
 I mean...
 Well, not in a way that is accessible to without spending a lot of money and doing a lot of
 setup and geeking out on it.
 A lot of them seem like extensions of weird Home Depot brands that you never come into
 contact with unless you're in a Home Depot and you need a doorbell.
 And now the doorbell company makes a complete system to wire your home up for automation.
 And you can buy the Home Depot starter pack.
 Yes.
 The best thing right now is Crestron.
 And people hate it.
 Yeah.
 I mean, they hate it.
 Some people love it, but they love it because they're really good.
 I just had a somewhat personal experience with the home, with my ADT alarm system.
 I'm not going to get into the details, but I will say that ADT...
 I would not subscribe to ADT if I were you because the entire thing is...
 Because they're home even if you're not.
 That's creepy.
 I think the whole alarm industry is like a Ponzi scheme.
 Yeah.
 It's like an elaborate scam.
 It's literally a protection racket.
 It is.
 It's a protection racket.
 And you don't need it.
 There are actually services...
 I've done some investigation, and this is something that's very exciting to me.
 Where you just put the flags.
 There are services where you can get your own sensors, your own carbon monoxide, smoke
 detectors, everything, base units.
 They work on cellular.
 Yeah.
 You don't have to sign up for a subscription.
 You pay way less money every month to get...
 It's still monitored.
 They still call the cops, all that stuff.
 But it's not part of this crazy...
 They were like...
 I'm like, yeah, I need to cancel my ADT service because it's never worked the entire time
 we've been here.
 And you've sent several people out and no one's been able to fix it.
 They're like, oh, yeah, you need the new pulse system.
 It's like, oh, that's interesting.
 The thing doesn't work, so you want to upgrade the system to something new and maybe have
 me sign up for a new contract.
 They're like, well, you can cancel it, but you'll have to pay the remainder of your contract,
 which is like $1,000.
 I was like, you have to be...
 I think I actually said this to a rep on the phone.
 I was like, you've got to be high if you think I'm going to pay you one more cent for the
 service that you have provided, which is no service at all.
 But the point is, I've decided anything...
 You should be very wary of anything you are locked into on contract that you are penalized
 for if you cancel your contract.
 To me, that's like saying, listen, our service sucks and you're going to be unhappy with
 it, but we're not going to let you get out of this contract.
 I feel like they're admitting that there's going to be something wrong with your service,
 which is why I think most of these phone contracts are basically scams.
 But anyhow, I'm ranting for no apparent reason.
 That's the thing, how do you make money putting your door locks into a house?
 It's not obvious.
 Because fine, you can sell some people new door locks, but you have to sell them something
 again.
 You're not going to upgrade your door locks in two years.
 There's a really finite market of people who are going to just change all the locks in
 their home.
 Right.
 And once you've captured them, they're done for.
 I mean, I would be all for doing something in my house that was monitoring electricity,
 heat and air conditioning, locks.
 I think this is where Nest is going.
 If you look at these companies and what they're doing, they're the only ones who seem to have
 done a good job of capturing both super nerdy people and regulars.
 Nest is building it, I'm hoping they're building it piece by piece.
 As long as each piece is like, oh, I actually want that on its own, eventually the dream
 of a system will come.
 But the problem with Nest is the same as the problem with Sonos, where Sonos is an amazing
 system if you want to listen to music all over your house.
 And if you want to listen to music from disparate sources, it's just really expensive.
 It's completely a luxury.
 Really weirdly proprietary.
 It's totally proprietary and completely a luxury item.
 I mean, it's better than...
 But you know what?
 In terms of proprietary systems, when you compare it to the kind of stuff that you're
 sold in the stores that sell high-end home automation shit, it's way better.
 I mean, in terms of simplicity and...
 No.
 In my family, there's a house that's all wired up with control.
 In my family, there's a house.
 There's a house.
 It's very big.
 He has a friend who lives there.
 There's a thing in the house.
 And control force.
 It's kind of close.
 It's like, it's bad.
 And it probably costs 10 times what a Sonos system...
 It's cool.
 The first time you use it, you're like, wow, I can...
 There's a remote control and you can turn off the lights or you can open an app and
 screw things.
 And then you're like, wow, I want to stream music for three hours and the whole thing
 crashes.
 I think the big problem is also that in a lot of homes, I mean, you're not going to
 rewire your outlets.
 Yeah.
 You're not going to rewire your switches.
 And that's why I think Belkin showed up with a bunch of LED light bulbs today.
 I think it unveiled...
 There's a crock pot.
 What do you mean?
 I don't know why you need to have your crock pot connected.
 In an instant, man.
 Oh, yeah.
 First you want your crock pot connected.
 Yeah.
 Slow cook.
 In a minute, set it up.
 You want to keep an eye on it.
 It's a slow...
 But it is exactly the opposite of why you need to be notified.
 Slow cooking is the exact opposite of things that you need to be notified about.
 It's like...
 You can't ruin it.
 No, it's like it's cooking forever and then at some point it'll be done, but it doesn't
 really matter when you get to it because it's just going to keep cooking.
 Yeah.
 You don't need to get an alert on your smartphone that your crock pot item is...
 What if there's a magic recipe that the temperature needs to rise and then fall and then rise
 again and you get control with your phone?
 Okay.
 That could be useful actually now that you mention it.
 But I do think that the...
 I have no idea if such a recipe exists.
 No, no.
 I don't think it does.
 But I do think that the idea of a connected home that is controllable and responsive to
 all sorts of factors...
 I read Netanyahu's writing an angry comment about the Packers on a SB Nation Packers.
 What's the Packers blog called?
 Acme packing company.
 Acme packing company.
 Acme packing company?
 Yeah.
 That's good.
 And you are a member of the community.
 I am, but I...
 I'm a member of the daily...
 I was actually just working on a tweet.
 That's the Vikings.
 The Internet of Raised Meats.
 The Vikings are also not going to the Super Bowl.
 The Vikings, no.
 They're running away from the Super Bowl as fast as they can.
 And they have since they were founded.
 So anyhow, but I do think the home automation sector is really interesting.
 And the problem with home automation is it's really hard.
 It's confusing and complicated.
 Way more so than a TV situation, in my opinion.
 There's so many more factors.
 And how do you get people to adopt...
 There are more factors, but the thing that's frustrating about home automation is there
 aren't institutional giant monopolies blocking progress.
 With TV, you can get pissed off at Comcast, but with home automation, you just have to
 get pissed off at them not doing it.
 Right.
 This is complicated.
 It's basically it.
 The reason Nest is good at what they're doing is because they're only attacking one problem.
 They're focusing on really finite problems.
 That smoke detector is cool.
 I think a lot of people bought them over Christmas.
 The Best Buy on my hometown was constantly sold out.
 But I don't know...
 I'm still not going to buy one.
 I don't know what it's for.
 But if you live in a house, in a regular size house, you need more than one smoke detector.
 Right.
 It becomes very expensive.
 The problem is how do you justify the $129 smoke detector?
 Even if it's awesome, you really just need it to go like, your house is on fire.
 Well, I just think like gadgety people who spend $139 or $129, they're only going to
 be happy with their gadget if they can play with their toys.
 And the only way you get to play with a smoke detector is when there's a fire.
 There's a horrible problem in your house.
 Honey, it burned the house down because the smoke detector talks to it.
 It really, really worked well.
 It really gave us the information.
 Yeah, I just think it's a tough nut to crack.
 And I think that...
 It went down again.
 What, the Wi-Fi's down?
 Yeah.
 So that's smart home.
 The other big ones here, we can just go through them.
 There's going to be a lot of wearables here.
 I think there's going to be a lot of...
 NVIDIA has a press conference that's actually starting very soon.
 I think there's going to be a lot of focus on gaming.
 Obviously tablets and PCs are like, they're always big here.
 I think we're going to see a lot of...
 You know, Sean did a report about PC manufacturers moving to Android, like with a big push from
 Intel.
 I think we're going to see a lot of Chromebooks too.
 I think we'll see a lot of Chromebooks.
 Really?
 Yeah.
 I think we'll see...
 Is it just Chromebook partners or is it just anybody can make a Chromebook?
 I think anybody can make a Chromebook.
 I think they probably want Google's blessing.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 But like...
 Well, actually...
 So you think maybe we'll start to see Chromebooks with crapware on them?
 That'd be the worst.
 How is this...
 Is Chrome OS open source?
 Yeah.
 And then you can just Chrome, right?
 Like, here's what I'm...
 I think Chrome OS is proprietary.
 I think it's like you need the keys to the kingdom.
 Let's use this...
 Here we go.
 We don't have internet.
 You don't have internet.
 There's Chromium, like what Chrome is based on.
 Chromium is open.
 But Chromium OS is not now.
 The Chromium OS is not now.
 Right.
 So you do a Chromium OS device...
 Yeah, but look, I was talking to one of the audits and Becky's mom bought a $400 gateway
 laptop from Walmart.
 She was like, bought it for herself.
 She didn't ask.
 I would have told her not to do such a thing.
 Yes, you should have.
 And it's just the worst piece of junk.
 And Windows 8 is terrible on it.
 Like, it's been...
 Whatever Windows 8...
 Whatever positive benefits Windows 8 might have in this world have been ruined by crapware.
 It makes no sense.
 She hates it.
 I basically spent a weekend turning it back into Windows 7 so she would like using it.
 And the whole time I was thinking, the only thing she wants to do on this computer is
 like run Chrome.
 Right?
 Fundamentally that's what I'm getting.
 I'm getting this to a place where she can run Chrome and like a handful of these other
 apps.
 And...
 Just install Chromium on it.
 Yeah.
 Just do a boot.
 This is called Linux.
 It's going to be weird.
 Yeah.
 But I get it.
 The thing about Chromebooks is they make those cheap laptops not terrible.
 Right.
 Because you can't do that much.
 I mean, what you can do just works.
 There are...
 I definitely could see myself with a Chromebook on a regular basis in the near future.
 I just don't think...
 Play it loud, guys.
 Super, super, super loud.
 And that's the merch, guys.
 I mean, I think we're going to see...
 That is really crazy loud.
 Yeah.
 Now, I think Microsoft is actually terrified of this, you see.
 The sense that I've gotten is that Intel is pushing for this Android on Windows concept,
 which is maybe just to get leverage back into the game.
 I think Intel has no leverage because they don't make smartphone chips that are of any
 value.
 And I really do not want Android apps on Windows.
 Like, if I've got a Windows PC, I'd rather have stuff native to it because Android apps
 still aren't the best.
 Here's what I'd like.
 Android apps on a Chromebook.
 Yeah.
 That's honestly...
 That would be...
 If I could run windowed versions of apps and get notifications the way I get them on my
 phone collected into an Android, some area...
 Sorry, not Android.
 Some area in Chrome that works the same way.
 Yeah.
 And I was like, you know what?
 I want to use the Twitter Android app.
 And I'm going to use...
 You wouldn't ever say that.
 I wouldn't say that, but I...
 Open source is called Chromium OS.
 Right.
 And then Chrome OS is a commercial version that has partners from Google.
 So if you want Chrome OS, you've got to be a Google partner.
 I don't think we're going to see Chrome...
 But that's just like Android, right?
 But I don't think we're going to see Huawei through a Chromium...
 No.
 They're going to do a blessed laptop.
 Yeah.
 Sure.
 They're all going to be blessed.
 I don't think Huawei is going to make anything.
 No one's going to show...
 Right.
 I'm just saying no one's going to show anything off that's not blessed by Google at this point.
 Right.
 But...
 So I think it would be really interesting to be able to say, okay, let's use a different
 example.
 Let's use...
 What's an app I use all the time on my phone?
 Instagram.
 Right.
 My Instagram app.
 I'm going to say I want to open up a little window running Instagram in my whatever resolution
 it needs to be to sit there.
 And then that'll be a windowed app with notifications that's happening.
 And then I'm going to go over here and use a full-fledged browser.
 The only thing missing from mobile right now is like desktop browsing, right?
 There are many, many apps that I use on my desktop that...
 I mean, even with an iPad, it's great.
 But you still want to be able to have the dynamism, if that's the word that I want to
 use, of a desktop browser of being able to access several tabs at the same time, really
 work within...
 Yeah.
 But I do think when I look at what I'm looking at, I have a Tweetbot on my Mac.
 I mean, Tweetbot is essentially a mobile app.
 I mean, their OS 10 version is not wildly different than their iOS version.
 Right.
 And it's moved some UI around or whatever.
 But it's like that's...
 To me, that's the future.
 And some blending of like web only with basically their micro apps, really.
 Yeah.
 But I think we're going to...
 App snacking.
 App snacking.
 Micro snacks.
 Do we own that or not?
 App snacking.
 We used to.
 I just let a lot of my domains expire.
 Yeah.
 I'm actually like in the process of cleaning out my domains because I have so many ridiculous
 domains.
 Yeah.
 Like I've been paying $15 a month for a lot of extremely...
 Netbooknude.com.
 I don't know if I've talked about this before, but at some point I owned Facebook with eight
 A's.
 Wow.
 Facebook.
 I probably still do.
 I'm probably going to get a season decision from Facebook now.
 I think the only one that I still own is like isfarvertired.com when he was like...
 No, no.
 Just the Instagram.
 The young guys with your footballs.
 Look, man.
 It's just rough.
 I'm going through the grieving process, okay?
 I'll hit acceptance at some point.
 It's not going to happen now.
 I mean...
 RamyMOS says a tweeter lacks Flash MP3 and MP4 support.
 Heavens no.
 Well...
 Dude, I can't wait for Flash to die.
 I can't wait for Flash to die.
 Like I honestly...
 Whatever.
 Flash is never dying.
 Yeah.
 Okay.
 And then the last sort of big category that we can talk about, I think wearables and phones
 are like...
 They're the big ones.
 I think gaming is like...
 We can talk about it, but Nvidia is really about to do a thing like any moment now.
 So wearables is going to be insane for like...
 Everybody saw Pebble win.
 This year it's going to be...
 Oh, boy.
 The beeping.
 Can you guys hear the beeping?
 I hope something comes crashing through.
 All I want to happen is a backhoe...
 Well, that wouldn't be good for you, Sarah, but you'd move, I'm sure, in time.
 I just want a backhoe to just come crashing through the studio and just end right here.
 And then stop.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 And then we're like...
 That's the first pass for this.
 And then a guy like throws a caterpillar phone at you.
 It just...
 It unloads a bunch of caterpillar phones on this table.
 And there's this huge stack of rugged phones and tablets.
 Carry on.
 They are surprisingly ugly, by the way.
 I guess.
 By the way.
 Have you seen the phones?
 I don't know.
 I wouldn't expect them to be cool.
 Yeah.
 Well, they're just like a...
 Would you expect a caterpillar phone to be cool?
 I don't know.
 I would expect it to look like one of those military phones with the thing.
 You know?
 But that would be cool.
 No, it wouldn't.
 Yeah, it would.
 Like...
 Wait, you mean with like the crank that they use in like...
 Yeah, with the crank.
 No, okay, not that.
 That's not what I thought you were talking about.
 That's what I thought I was talking about.
 I mean, that's what I was talking about.
 The big old Motorola's.
 Yeah.
 Oh.
 I've lost the thread on wearables.
 Werewolves.
 You say werewolves?
 Wearables.
 But werewolves also...
 I mean, I see a lot of werewolves at CES this year.
 You don't realize this, but a lot of children of the night here in Vegas.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 I actually have seen several...
 I rate it like Canthro.
 I wish I'd seen several vampire-esque individuals wandering the streets of Vegas.
 Oh, vampires, not werewolves.
 Well, I said children of the night.
 I consider werewolves and vampires to both be children of the night.
 Also succubi.
 Really?
 Zombies.
 I can't...
 I mean...
 Ghosts.
 Yeah.
 I mean, I can't...
 Mummies.
 Yeah.
 And chihuahuas.
 Chihuahuas.
 Angry chihuahuas.
 Angry chihuahuas.
 Yeah.
 I like that whoever runs the Hyundai USA Twitter account is watching the road chats right now
 and thanked us for mentioning them.
 Do we mention Hyundai?
 We did.
 Do you Hyundai?
 That's really...
 Whatever you say.
 Hyundai?
 How do you say it?
 Hyundai.
 I want to get a Korean in here to tell me exactly how to pronounce it.
 But no, it's...
 It is Korean, right?
 Yeah.
 They sell cars to American people.
 You can tell CES is already happening.
 Yeah.
 We're just out of control.
 Things do not seem normal.
 So let me ask you a question.
 Yeah.
 What's keeping you from...
 You had a Fitbit, right?
 I had one.
 You don't wear it anymore.
 No, it was too depressing.
 I started buying back up for CES because of all the wearables.
 I don't think anybody who works in the journalism industry...
 Who needs a Fitbit.
 Should wear a Fitbit.
 Yeah.
 Because I think it gives you a bad self-image.
 Of how many steps...
 You should...
 You should take more steps.
 It gives you an image...
 It gives you an idea of yourself that is...
 So my take on this is that there's only been three wearables in November.
 Go back to that shot.
 Go back to my single.
 Oh, here we go.
 Where did your fire go?
 Don't you want me here?
 I've been over here the whole time.
 What?
 Oh, the fire's back.
 Oh, God.
 This really is already happening.
 Hyundai is like Sunday, I'm told.
 By Hyundai USA.
 There you go.
 Sunday.
 Yeah.
 Sunday cars.
 Yeah.
 That's good.
 So it's just Hyundai?
 Hyundai.
 Like Sunday.
 What is Vampire Vegas?
 What was that?
 What was that?
 What was that?
 Oh, Vampires in Vegas.
 Yeah.
 That looks like it's great.
 This is a show?
 This is a reality.
 This is a sequel to Empire Records.
 Oh, my God.
 Wow.
 That is great.
 What comes to Vegas dies in Vegas.
 Interesting.
 The bloody dice.
 Interesting.
 Different kind of tagline for Vegas.
 What comes to Vegas dies in Vegas.
 I really like that.
 So here's my theory.
 There's only three wearables that have ever been successful or worthwhile.
 Are you saying werewolves?
 Werewolves.
 It really sounds like werewolves.
 There's only been three successful werewolves in history.
 The one from American Werewolf in London.
 He wasn't that successful though.
 The one from Paris.
 Yeah.
 And then the one from the Halle.
 Yeah.
 That's it.
 That's it.
 Yeah.
 Well, what about the...
 The Teen Wolf.
 And the Wolfman.
 Teen Wolf.
 So we're actually one of the three.
 Teen Wolf for sure.
 Teen Wolf 2, not so much.
 The original Wolfman.
 Sorry, Jason.
 Benicio del Toro's Wolfman.
 Isn't that movie terribly violent?
 I don't know.
 I have no idea.
 I think it's terribly sexy is what it is.
 Well, werewolves.
 Anyhow, there's only three successful wearables.
 What is this?
 Is this real?
 Is this real?
 Is this real?
 Is it a movie?
 It's whatever it is.
 Oh, it's a book.
 I think you know the songs.
 A wild...
 Oh, it's a wild about you novel.
 A wild about you novel.
 Is it like the sitcom?
 Is it like...
 I get it.
 It's mad about you.
 Oh, damn it.
 Which by the way, would have been way better if Helen Haughan turned into a werewolf at
 the end of it.
 Like that's how it ended.
 No, I get it.
 No, I get it.
 Wild about you because they're like creatures.
 They're like animals.
 And they're also in love.
 Right.
 Animals in love.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 They're animals in love.
 That one...
 A lot of that in Vegas too actually.
 All right, go on.
 I'm just trying to say werewolves without getting back on the wheels.
 Okay, there's been three successful werewolves.
 Three.
 The pebble.
 Yeah.
 The Fuel band and the Fitbit.
 That's it.
 Wait a second.
 What about the...
 What about the...
 What about the...
 What about the...
 What about the...
 What about the Rebac?
 The Rebac Pump?
 No.
 The Pump.
 What?
 Yeah.
 Also sunglasses are very successful.
 The Rebac Pump.
 I think the job on Up was a fail, they had to recall it because it didn't work and they
 had to sell it again.
 The shine, that little circle is like hairs.
 It's by Google Glass.
 Yeah.
 Does somebody just moan?
 Is that a werewolf?
 When you say Google Glass, a werewolf is crying.
 You know what would be scary?
 A werewolf in Google Glass.
 Imagine that.
 It would be so ineffective.
 I'm just picturing Scoble covered in fur.
 I don't think you need a picture.
 The problem is, can you get a picture of that?
 I think you can.
 I think you can.
 I think you can.
 I think you can.
 I think you can.
 I think you can.
 I think you can.
 I think you can.
 I think you can.
 The problem is, can Google Glass be able to understand the werewolf growling, okay glass?
 Werewolf Bar Mitzvah.
 Is that a book?
 No, Werewolf Bar Mitzvah is a song from 30 Rock, which is an amazing song.
 How weird.
 Yeah, you know the lyrics, it's boys becoming men, men becoming wolves.
 Nope.
 Nope.
 Those are the lyrics.
 Okay, so those are the only three that we've been at it for a while and Google's been doing
 Glass.
 I think there's going to be a bar at this show, I think there's going to be tons of really
 crappy wearables.
 And I think they're all going to fall far below that level of success.
 They need to make them look good and they need to not overcomplicate them.
 I think look good is actually, here's the thing with Glass, it's not useful all the
 time, right?
 So if you're going to wear something on your body, it's got to be useful all the time.
 Glass is mostly not useful.
 It mostly does nothing.
 You're just a jerk.
 Well, unless you're on your mountain bike.
 It's still not too useful.
 Or getting a text message.
 Or taking pictures of your loved ones.
 Or traveling to a destination.
 You don't do those things permanently, right?
 Yeah, you do.
 If you're a good guy, if you're always checking out your loved ones.
 You're always texting.
 That'd be real deja vu.
 Did we have this conversation last CES?
 No, there was no Glass last CES.
 Oh yeah, that's right.
 Was there?
 I don't know.
 I don't really know.
 No, because your Google Glass piece was in our office.
 We moved it into the office in February.
 What are we talking about?
 I'm just saying, I think there's going to be, there's a flood of wearables coming here.
 Did you hear that?
 No.
 Did you hear there's a flood of werewolves coming here?
 That's what I'm hearing.
 I'm hearing flood of werewolves.
 Yes.
 Am I crazy?
 Is anybody else hearing this?
 That is what...
 Yeah, okay.
 There are people here.
 And you better watch it.
 I think you do.
 I don't know you.
 The fucking wolves are coming out.
 The werewolves are coming.
 We're done.
 I have a meeting.
 You're saying a flood of wearables.
 Wearables.
 You got to annunciate the word wearables.
 Wearables.
 Wearables.
 Wearables.
 Wearables.
 Wearables.
 Wearables.
 Wearables.
 Wearables.
 Wearables.
 Well, I think that about wraps it up.
 We've been on for an hour.
 Wednesday's a full moon.
 It's a nightmare over here.
 And I think Pebbles is going to release their newest werewolf.
 Oh, their newest werewolf?
 So do you have any other topics?
 Not really.
 Did anybody learn anything?
 We need to go through...
 I forgot what was coming.
 Tomorrow is a big day.
 Tomorrow is a big day.
 So NVIDIA tonight starts at eight.
 Last year NVIDIA's press conference was like three hours long.
 And they released the Shield.
 Which shocked the world.
 NVIDIA has been a shock segment of the world.
 NVIDIA has historically...
 I'm really hoping they release the sword today.
 NVIDIA has historically been unexciting.
 But they were very exciting last year, particularly because of the sexist moments of their...
 Do you remember there was...
 I don't know if anybody remembers this.
 Can we get a still of this?
 There's like the CEO was like offering a scantily clad woman a drink at a bar.
 Who doesn't do that?
 Telling her about the new GeForce chipset.
 Did I make that up?
 I don't remember.
 No, I think that happened.
 He was like, hey, check out, I'm streaming a PC game on the Shield.
 And then he dropped it and asked her to pick it up.
 And then he checked out her behind and he did that thing with his glasses where he was
 like that.
 And then the song...
 I've never understood the...
 The song, Oh Yeah, by Yellow started playing.
 Yes, there it is.
 None of that stuff.
 I've never understood the glasses thing, by the way.
 As a man who usually wears glasses.
 No, it's like you have your glasses on for reading and then you see a sweet car or a
 sweet babe across the street.
 Yeah, is it because I'm nearsighted?
 Because someone's like, check out that hot chick.
 What would she look like blurry?
 Because that's what that is for them.
 It makes no sense.
 No, you're de-blurring it so you can see more of what's going on over there.
 I don't understand.
 And then Yellow's Oh Yeah begins playing out of the blue.
 Okay, fine, I get it.
 It's like a reverse deal with it.
 Actually, it's like an extra deal.
 Never mind.
 No, it's a reverse deal.
 It falls.
 Reverse would go up.
 It's like, I can't deal with this.
 That's what it is.
 Yeah.
 Are we done yet?
 We're done.
 NVIDIA tonight, tomorrow morning, LG at 8am Pacific, 11am.
 Wait, wait, NVIDIA what time?
 NVIDIA's tonight at 8am.
 Tonight at 8am.
 And that will probably go from 8 to 8.
 That's 11 o'clock East Coast.
 Correct.
 So if you're on the East Coast, if you're not in Los Angeles...
 Do not sleep, ever.
 11 o'clock, NVIDIA's going to do something sexy or sexist or amazing.
 Or all three.
 We'll see.
 It'll have chips.
 Yeah.
 Tomorrow morning, 8am, 11am Eastern is LG.
 Obviously, it's web watched TV.
 Life's good.
 Life's good.
 And probably some washing machines.
 You never know, it's LG.
 They do a lot of things.
 Or washing machines as they call them in the South.
 You two are going to be back at this desk after LG is done.
 What?
 You two are going to be here for the Verge Live.
 Oh yeah, Dieter and I are going to do...
 Oh, that's right.
 We're going to have post-game analysis.
 Not NVIDIA tonight because it's so crazy ass late.
 But tomorrow after the first LG event, which is at 8 in the morning, 11am.
 And basically starting from 8, we're going to have all these press conferences streaming
 on our video hub.
 Yep.
 And live blogs.
 We'll have video for basically 11 hours tomorrow between press conferences, Verge Live, hands-ons,
 interviews, all that stuff that's going on tomorrow.
 So just put this in your pipe and smoke it, Mobile Accomplishers.
 Is that what you call them?
 Yes.
 Dieter really didn't want to acknowledge that.
 Dieter, Bones, and Josh Dupolsky, two webOS aficionados, will be critiquing the webOS
 TV following the webOS TV announcement.
 Right.
 Yeah.
 Buckle up, Mobile Accomplishers.
 And then Samsung is at 2pm, followed by another Verge Live, which I figure who's going to
 be on that one.
 Could be anybody.
 I'll probably be around because I'm...
 Valve and Sony, I'm actually going to be live-blogging Sony because it's a tradition of mine.
 Valve and Sony are doing something together?
 No, no, they're at the same time.
 That would be the same, wouldn't it?
 They're having it at the same time.
 Yeah.
 That would be...
 Sony's making a steam box.
 They're like, you know what the PS4 is?
 It's a little...
 And Sony, there's big stuff going on with Sony because they got Phil Molyneux's ad,
 they've got a new president.
 It's cause he's won Sony.
 So Sony's at 5, and actually it's...
 We're right in front of Central Hall, our kind of setup here has moved this year.
 So I'm going to live-blog Sony and come straight back here, and we're going to do the Vergecast
 instead of a Verge live right after Sony at 6.
 By the way, people are really mad that I cut you off from talking about wearables by asking
 if you were talking about werewolves.
 Oh, here's the thing.
 Most werewolves suck.
 Werewolves?
 Most werewolves suck.
 Most werewolves suck.
 I think you're thinking of vampires.
 Werewolves are cool.
 Who laughed?
 Who laughed at that?
 Was that John?
 It was good.
 Really?
 Okay.
 He'd laugh at anything, though, so I'm not going to take too much.
 I'm not going to feel like that was a freebie.
 Whatever, man.
 Team Edward.
 We'll have live-blogs for most of these.
 Did you just say Team Edward?
 I don't know what I just said.
 I'm sorry.
 Did anybody hear him say Team Edward under his breath?
 He did.
 Edward is one of the worst all-time characters ever in the history of...
 I've only ever seen one of those movies.
 You should see all of your three movies.
 Here's what I remember.
 You should see all of them.
 The only thing I remember about that movie, I'll admit...
 You've got to see the last two.
 It was very late at night.
 I had come out from a night being out.
 Out, out.
 And I watched the baseball scene, which has some of the worst CGI.
 Oh, my God.
 The first movie is like a work of art.
 No, I'm not even kidding.
 I'm not sure...
 The first movie is like a high art.
 It's like a weird...
 It's like a B movie.
 Yeah.
 It's like Plan 9 from Outer Space, but it's the most popular young adult novel of all
 time.
 And it's about vampires and werewolves.
 It's based on Sparkle.
 Extremely celibate.
 Sparkle.
 Sparkle.
 I just like just rewatch the first movie and tell me if you don't think every time Bella
 and Edward speak to one another, it looks like they're both about to throw up.
 They ate something very bad.
 There's so many looks in that movie.
 Can we get a little bit of...
 How did we even find this?
 They just did.
 Just look at...
 They're going to talk to each other.
 Just get a look at them.
 Look.
 Look.
 He's sick.
 No, no, no, no, no.
 He's been alive for so long.
 Show any...
 Look.
 She looks totally nauseous in every one of these shots.
 Look.
 Okay, they were smiling there, which is weird.
 See, you can't really tell them this.
 You need to see an extended...
 Can we get just a shot of them?
 Oh my God.
 It's so bad.
 No, but you need to see the last two.
 I don't really want to.
 The end of the...
 What are the last two films called?
 Breaking Dawn.
 Breaking Dawn parts one and two.
 The end of Breaking Dawn part one is so disturbing that you will never forget what happens, and
 it will mess you up permanently.
 Well, I got to go, because I got to go watch Breaking Dawn part one.
 You really should see all of them.
 All right.
 Look, we're going to have a Twilight marathon after the press conference is tomorrow, after
 the Verge cast.
 We're just...
 Through that tonight, we're just going to run Twilight.
 Does that make sense?
 Yeah.
 Anything else going on tomorrow?
 Makes perfect sense.
 We're just going to have a lot of stuff.
 I look at our calendar and it's a bit of pain.
 I want to tell you guys that our stream is just running tomorrow, so you can hit...
 You can literally hit play in our video player at 8 a.m. tomorrow morning and just let it
 run all day.
 We're going to be broadcasting nonstop.
 I don't even know what's happening.
 I'm just laughing at...
 Laura June is quoting you.
 What did I do?
 I think there are going to be tons of crappy werewolves.
 Now that we know that the word wearables and werewolves are so closely connected, we
 need to do something special with that.
 I don't know what it is, but I feel like we've just started to unlock the specialness of
 CES.
 It's happening.
 I think that we've just begun to taste the sweet nectar of the nonsense that is the Verge
 at CES.
 Yeah.
 Delicious, succulent, moist nectar of CES.
 I'm letting you live with that all by yourself.
 Moist nectar.
 Moist, succulent, and moist.
 Isn't it moist by...
 Definitely, never mind.
 Yes, moisture by...
 The moisture does seem to be implied when you say nectar, but this is a particularly
 moist nectar, is what I'm saying, and succulent.
 This is not a Wikipedia entry I ever thought I'd read.
 What are you reading?
 In botany, succulent plants, also known as the succulents or sometimes the fat plants,
 are plants having some parts that are more normally thickened and fleshy.
 That's disgusting.
 It's hard for the fat plants.
 Yeah, turning tomorrow, we're going to have a lot more werewolves.
 We're going to have coverage of 4K.
 Werewolves in 4K.
 Yeah, 4K werewolves.
 What else?
 That's my new band name.
 What else is there?
 Is that it?
 Tomorrow is the news day.
 Yeah, there's a lot of...
 Tomorrow and Tuesday are the biggest stages of news at CES.
 Tomorrow morning, the Verge is going to get real gadgety, real CES-y.
 We should talk about that a little bit.
 So we're going to get real gadgety, but we have a big CES hub, and then we have a CES
 wire.
 Yeah, that's right, because we're not going to put everything on the front page.
 If you're looking for everything, I strongly suggest you go to the CES hub.
 We also have a news wire, which is basically like the dream of the Verge 1 Percenters,
 which is a blog, basically a blog of every single thing that we hit at CES.
 I think if you saw our coverage last year, you know we're going to do it a little bit
 differently.
 We are not going to hit every story.
 We're not going to cover every router.
 You will not see...
 We're not going to cover every router.
 What?
 We're not going to be...
 All my plans are ruined.
 Here's what we're doing.
 We're trying to find the most interesting, coolest stuff and put it on our pages for
 you guys to read about.
 We have some really, really cool stories tomorrow.
 Already we've got a handful of things that I think are pretty fascinating.
 I've already done at least one thing that I think perfectly sums up why I want to be
 at CES every year, and it's not just the werewolves.
 That's why I'm here.
 It's not just the werewolves.
 God, I wish there was a technology that sounded like vampires.
 That's everyone's homework for the night.
 Think of a technology that sounds like vampires.
 Think of what is a technology that when you say it out loud could be mistaken for you
 saying vampires.
 And then we will make a Twilight remix.
 Zombie also could be good if you can think of something that sounds like zombies.
 We'll be eating bacon.
 Well, Neal, I will.
 Oh, boy.
 Oh, also, that's the other thing.
 We're doing...
 Every day we're doing this thing called No Filter, which is a stream of our tweets and
 our Instagrams and just random shit that we're doing here at CES that you guys...
 It's live updating.
 It's like a live blog, essentially.
 It's just us being the verge at CES.
 It's weird.
 It's backstage.
 It's behind the scenes.
 Here's a...
 Everybody working hard with this.
 CES unveiled right now, too.
 Scroll down a little so they can see what's going on.
 Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on.
 We're doing weird pictures from the trailer and stuff that we go do.
 And, oh, my God, another plane.
 Yeah, I think that's a sign.
 That's definitely a sign.
 That's a plane full of werewolves.
 What was that?
 Oh, my God, is it a backhoe?
 Oh, my God, is it a backhoe?
 Oh, my God, is it a backhoe?
 Oh, my God, is it a backhoe?
 No, like the tent, like, shook.
 It was a backhoe hitting us.
 It's gonna be fine.
 It might be.
 All right, that's the Vergecast for Sunday night at CES.
 We'll be back tomorrow.
 Right after Sony.
 No, after LG.
 Oh, the Vergecast will be back tomorrow after Sony in the evening, but we'll be back broadcasting,
 doing live coverage.
 We'll have live streams of shows.
 We will have live analysis afterwards.
 We're gonna have tons of product videos and hands-ons and all sorts of crazy stuff, reports.
 Tomorrow is where it gets really crazy, so stay tuned to The Verge.
 And we'll be back tomorrow night.
 And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, even though they're probably
 going to be attacked by werewolves.
 That's the end of the show.
 That's the end of the show.
 That's the end of the show.
 That's the end of the show.
 That's the end of the show.
 That's the end of the show.
 That's the end of the show.
 That's the end of the show.
 That's the end of the show.