 Hey, and welcome to The Vergecast for the week of November 7, 2011. I'm Josh Dupolsky. I'm Paul Miller. I'm Neil Epitow. And we have a special guest with us, the lovely and delightful... Joanna Stern. The semi-delightful Joanna Stern. The lovely and annoyed Joanna Stern. The lovely special guest. The very angry Joanna Stern. We don't like to actually be a special guest on the show. Who has to leave immediately. Yeah. She can only be on for... She's got to have dinner. Yeah. Anyhow, this is The Vergecast where we talk about the week in technology news, consumer electronics, hopes, Joanna's dinners, hopes, dreams, feelings. I was just told there's video on this podcast. There is video. Did you see this? I have no idea. We sprung for cameras and everything. It's pretty exciting stuff. Oh my God. Anyhow, this is our second Vergecast, a name which is a hotly debated name, which Paul hates. Paul, you have to admit, it's growing on you. No, it's not. Really? Not at all? No. I'm at 50-50. You know what The Vergecast sounds like? It's like, welcome to my homepage. It's under construction, but look at this animated GIF of a guy digging a hole. Oh, dude, it has a GIF? Yeah. The digging GIF? I'm looking at your picture from the post and from the article and looking at you here. You're like evil Paul today. Right now? You're like the bad. You're like when Paul... It's true. Paul is unhinged. He's unhinged. Yeah, that's how you know. The glasses... I'm the Jared Leto. Yeah, you're Jared Leto. You're like, I don't know, Paul, something happened. It's true. He got evil. It's like a mixture of you look super kind, but then you're going to murder me. He doesn't look kind. He looks like a serial killer. No, you would take really good care of a bird or a rabbit. You mean like Kevin Spacey. But then murder an innocent person. Like Frankenstein. Like Frankenstein. No. I just don't know my own strength. You know, he thought he was hugging. He was killing. I'm right here. I can't even see Paul's face. Well, it looks evil. There he is. It looks like dark Paul. Dark Paul. Yeah. Anyhow, big weekend, big, big, weird week in technology news. Ridiculous week. Ridiculous week in technology news and consumer electronics. And we are going to talk about that week. Oh, yeah. And so much. And we have to finish it by eight. Yes, we do. I mean, according to Joanna. I mean, I'm just going to leave. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing a two hour. I'm putting my foot in the sand. Putting my foot in the sand. What is it? What do you do? Putting your foot down? Yeah. You know, putting your foot in the sand. What's the sand? Drawing a line. Drawing a line. The sand is really impermanent. I'm drawing a line on my foot. OK. We're going to bury Josh in the sand. Putting my foot in the sand. That's my new thing. Yeah, that's right. There's like a lot of stuff about regular humanity I don't know. Like saints. You know what happens at the end of Mary Poppins? Oh, she dies. Oh, come on. Really? She dies because her umbrella breaks. Yeah, she's trying to parachute out. She's trying to parachute out. Down. That'd be a dark. That's a dark story. Anyhow, let's you guys, man, let's get into this. Let's talk about there was a big announcement at the top of the week. Yeah, you were there. You were there. Nook Tablet. That was this week? Yeah. I think it was. It was this week. It's a long week then. It was a long. You know, actually, it's really terrible to hold an event on a Monday morning. Yeah. I thought you were going to say it's really terrible. The Nook Tablet? Yeah. It's a long week. It's a long week. It's a long week. No, I thought you were going to say it's really terrible. It's a long week. It's a long week. I actually really like it and so that's really all I have to say about it. That's it? I'm gone. You're like, I got to go, got to get a arrangement. So what do you think? I like that. I like this. I like a lot of things. Tell us about the Nook Tablet. I'll tell you a little bit about the event because I think the event was actually pretty interesting for a Barnes and Noble event. They're usually pretty boring. Like, they'll have the event upstairs in the bookstore and they did that, but I thought the CEO was pretty interesting this week when he was basically bashing on Amazon. Oh yeah, no he like went at him. Yeah and so you know the live vlog which I thought was gonna be kind of boring turned out to be pretty interesting because he was taking them down on each different point. They were really they were really aggressive. Very aggressive so he went like on each point of the Kindle Fire you know we've got we've got more RAM we have in-store support what else was he going on about? Better screen better screen yeah yeah and so. And a bigger price. A bigger price, a nicer design. What is it and their justification for that so it's $249.99 the Kindle Fire is $199.99 and what is the justification for the 50 bucks is it's got an extra 512 of RAM and it has more internal storage and it's also expandable. Screen is better they say the screen is better. I actually think the screen looks better I mean I didn't have them to compare and I haven't seen the Fire for a while but you know I think the display is really nice and I actually still don't have an answer so he came out with a tablet and held it up and I could have sworn the screen was painted on. Oh you mean the tablet? Really? Yeah the tablet. He's like look at the look at the resolution of this screen. No he didn't ever touch it. It's like print. The screen is like print resolution. Which launched they definitely did that for the original Nook. And then you know so then when we went downstairs to do the hands-on they had the ones with the painted screen on like they had like the sticker you know. There was no hands-on with the tablet. There was there was. Because I saw it. Yeah there were other ones but I still think the one he held up was just like a sticker. So is the screen similar to the original? It's the same I think. Really? Yeah it's the same screen. Yeah it's the same resolution. But that's not that good of a screen. No it's not. It is a pretty nice screen. It's okay. It's not as reflective as some but it's also like not very bright. It's an IPS display. It's very good viewing angles. I thought it was pretty bright. So you were at the Fire event too so you can compare the two. Yeah but in my in my. In your mind. The Fire screen is the playbook screen. We know that screen. We know it and we love it. You know they actually said. He actually said that too. He's like oh they have the playbook. You know all they did was you know use the playbook. Which is an amazing thing. Design reference. By the way for the CEO of a huge company to say about competitor. Well I think it's also. They were so lazy. I think it's also interesting that not just they're saying that they were lazy but that they that the playbook sucks. Everybody knows that. The playbook is crap. We all know that. They're like look let's not beat around the bush. You know I'm not going to tell you don't. We know what the playbook is all about and these guys just reuse the playbook. So it's a piece of crap by proxy. Like I feel bad for him in this situation. Your product is so bad it's being used as an example of how somebody else's product is bad. Like you playbook this thing. It's all playbooked up. People are using playbook casually. Oh you did. You pulled a playbook. Yeah. It's like for something that happened that was bad. Well. He pulled a playbook. Let's not. Let's not. We're starting that. Going mainstream guys. Yeah. Don't playbook this. Memed up. Not going to. Okay good. Go on. That was fierce. What else did I have to say? Are you ready to be talking about the tablet? Yeah. I mean I actually I think I do think that even though it's the $50 difference I think the biggest hardware aside and you know the software is sort of the experience is all hardware and software aside. It's a better product. Price aside. It's the superior product. What makes it what makes it a better product? Yeah. What does make it a better product? I'm going to say that I think that the hardware on the Nook could is probably better. I like the design better. I like the design better too. Yeah. You know it's a lot better. It looks nicer but where Amazon is going to have the real edge killer playbook killing edge is going to be in the ecosystem and that's a big problem for I think. You know if they mention this they're doing these like custom variants of Android apps. They're still running an Android. Right. They're going to have the deepest Netflix integration of anybody. That's a lie because if you read my hands on it's actually just the phone app running on there. Right but I think I don't think it's ready. It's going to get deeper. They're like they're going to ping your cue to your home screen and do all this stuff. I mean their whole idea is that they're going to have. Reed Hastings is all the help he can get right now. What do you guys want to do? It's weird that we haven't seen that before now. Right. But it's also like do you want that at all? Maybe. I mean. I mean they have an app problem and I met with them afterwards and they are saying you know they're working with all these developers and that sort of thing. But you know Amazon's got an app store that they've been working on for multiple Android devices and they've already built the collection of apps and now with the fire. But they have the same problem. I mean in a lot of ways. Yes. They have a bigger slightly bigger footprint but they still have the issue of they're not the actual and not the actual Android store. And they've had a lot of problems with their own store. A lot of like developer backlash. The way that they do pricing. The way they do like the free app. And they just have to give it away right. Yeah and a lot of developers like have a huge influx because they're like the free app of the day but then they have to drop support because they have this weird app in a kind of a silo of the Amazon app store and they have to choose where they want to invest their support and they'd rather put that into the Google app store where people actually paid money for their app. There are times like this that I wish Steve Jobs were alive because he would get on a call somewhere and he would just talk about how ridiculous the Android app situation is right now. These bozos. No they're bozos that are blowing. Not only I mean not only are they it is kind of insane. You have fragmentation amongst Android devices just full stop like Android market has its own problems with fragmentation and now Barnes & Noble huge retailer with a has a big presence in these products and Amazon huge retailer about to have a big presence in these products also creating their own separate incompatible ecosystems. You know what I can't wait to happen for then one of those companies to create another product and then some of those apps don't work on that product. You mean like a bigger product. Yeah exactly. No no exactly. Like Amazon's going to have like a 10 inch tablet. Or like they make like a TV. Well no we've heard it's a. If you look at the org chart of this it's like Android and then all these like fragmented bits and then these big silos you know it's Amazon and then they're going to do their make a nice 8 inch tablet and it's going to have their two silos. It's going to happen. I think we've talked about this before but it's it's it's going to happen. We're going to do it. We're going to do an infographic on that when it happens. It's an approach that's not going to happen. That's going to happen. Our infographic. Yes. Really interactive interactive. Yeah. It's an approach to the market where you can only win if you totally win. There's no you don't end up with a good product if you get like 15 percent of the market. Well I mean it depends on how valuable that 15 percent is. I mean you might be getting a percent of you know really rich guys. Well I mean Apple's doing well 10 percent of the P.C. market. Right. Well you'll be doing better though. They could own everyone. But no no I mean it is it is troubling though like that we have this. It's like it's like a standards war where I think the consumer ultimately suffers. Right. And now it's like it's growing. It's like mutating. Right. And I think you thought it was over you're like wow this fragmentation is bad. And you know Google is like we're going to try to get this in check. We're going to offer updates blah blah blah. And it's on the stream. What's happening. Why are you talking. I'm looking at pictures. Go ahead. OK. But now it's like not only do they have their problem that all these other guys have their problem and developers have to make a decision. I feel like if I'm a developer who's making a tablet app this is going to highly encourage me to just develop for the iPad. It's like biggest biggest audience no fragmentation unless Amazon or Barnes & Noble gives you a nice bounty to port your app. I mean it's already popular on another platform. I mean I asked them about like ice cream sandwich. I mean they seem so focused on their own platform. I mean the Barnes & Noble representative I don't remember her name right now was you know really sort of dodging those questions saying like this is our own platform and we're hand picking these apps and you know we're trying to get these. Well I mean have you have you used the no color in their apps. And they are. Yeah you've used them. Yeah they are just glorified. They're just Android. They're Android. I mean they are. There is no. I think the Netflix app is the phone app. Right I think there's this idea that like somehow it's different than like a Galaxy tab. No. But it's not. It's exactly the same. It's actually really depressing. Yeah. Well you know it's funny. We've said for a long time the no color is likely the best selling. They said that it was the best selling second second best selling selling behind the app but it's definitely the best selling Android tablet. Yes. Which means that they can actually do the tablet stuff and I mean they're the ones the developers should be going to to begin with because they have the biggest installed base. Well they can say they can say that but yeah Amazon has a better they have a better ecosystem they just have a better pedigree for that. You know you know Barnes and Noble is a bookseller. Maybe you bought a CD or something from them. Maybe a magazine. Yeah and I think ecosystem wise that's actually what I'm more worried about. Like if I'm really into apps I don't see you know if I'm an app guy I don't see myself going for either of these tablets. It's for the end to end media experience and Amazon has its own video service and it has its own music service. Amazon's video and music and their stuff is way more integrated. I mean they don't on Barnes the Barnes and Noble the Nook tablet only has streaming like Mog they don't have Spotify. They don't have side load music. No you can side load music. They don't have they don't even have all the streaming services they don't have audio. They don't have Spotify. They have Pandora they've had the Pandora one. Pandora is old news nobody cares about Pandora. And I think a big you know if you're just lounging around your house and you because you and you have Wi-Fi that's great but I don't think that's a huge it's a huge use for the tablets is one of the primary uses but you know travel you know being able to have stored media on your device and you're traveling and you're being able to entertain yourself. I mean at least some stored media certainly at the very least cash which you can do on on the fire from what I understand right you can cash. Yes it has but it has 8gb it's not a ton right. It's not a lot. It's a couple movies. A few movies. It's a couple movies and a few songs basically. Maybe a couple of movies. Oh and the I wouldn't buy an 8gb phone. I don't know if that matters. Who has Hulu Plus? Barnes and Noble. Oh good you can pay Hulu for nothing. I don't know I'm over Hulu Plus. All I know is every time I try to load up Hulu Plus on my Roku it's like sorry you can't watch this content on your TV and it's like well I'm glad I have Hulu Plus on my Roku. What was I supposed to plug that into? Your computer. Yeah was it for a laptop? I'm hooking my Roku into my laptop. Is this cool? That probably wouldn't even work. So annoying. I mean what whatever. And Netflix was supposed to be a differentiator for the Nook but then Amazon came out and said that they're getting Netflix too. Yeah but lots of people have Netflix. I don't think Netflix is a big thing anymore. And Netflix streaming is so bad. It's the same. No. The Netflix fragmentation is the worst. No but if it was like. There's Netflix fragmentation. I mean the Android fragmentation of the Netflix app. Right so you get well it's the same as Skype. But it's the same movies. It's the worst though. The long and short of it is that you can get Netflix. And they play pretty well. I have Netflix on my on my television. Okay yeah. With the one with the Roku in it. No no no. But the actual television. Oh the actual television. Netflix is everywhere. It's boring now. I mean that's like you can get it anywhere. I don't think it's if they if they were like we're the only non-Apple tablet to have Netflix then you'd be like whoa that's a value. I do think they're one of the only ones. You can get coffee makers with Netflix. Lenovo has it on their. It's like this can of Diet Coke. It's Netflix. I mean admittedly it's only SD but still I just think Netflix is like the only person I know who watches Netflix streaming consistently. That cannot be true. Here's what I want to know. How come they couldn't get what kind of very little selection. What do you watch. Yeah what do you watch. He's watching really bad crap. You're like 2012. You're watching like 2012. No no no. You know you watch. You know how like they have those like Curf movies like Trant. Transmorphers. Are you serious. I'm not. I watched a little bit of you actually spent any time in your life watching. I was curious. Yeah we've all been curious. This to me makes me feel bad for you. On a whole new level. OK why would you why would you spend your precious moment here in collection on there. But you're watching the right here in collection. I watch it but I like trans more for you know the whole movies. I've noticed Netflix always has like one or two like good movies like mixed in. They have a lot of good content. If you haven't seen you know I'm trying to think of a movie that's on there that you haven't maybe haven't seen. Yeah it's like if you haven't seen 16 candles. Let the right one in. You know what you know I just saw in the loop. Great British comedy. No no no. Right now there's some British people like critically critically playing the best mate. That was Australia. No I'm not doing an accent. I'm just saying their words. If I was doing an accent you know it. But they oh I got that. We have to go to the loo. So or whatever whatever a British person sounds like. But overall hold on your way. Is there any. Can anybody here. Sorry I. My wine is gone and I would love something else to drink. There are some beers. I don't think there's any wine but could somebody grab me something that is. Yeah whatever. What's that beer if there's no and one for this guy and Neil I would like one as well. Thank you. I really I really like some. What would you like. Margarita. We have some John Rueb. Sangria. Yeah. We have ready. What are you John Rubenstein. But we should. So we talk about the new color. Well hold on. What really quickly. Yes we know we can. If you have a tablet but I'd like to know why. Did you talk to anybody about why they didn't feel they could match Amazon's price. Yeah they and the same. The specs the specs are better. They're like we have more memory. Yeah. I think that's my guess is that this is in production right. They were caught on the way. Yeah. Oh no but I think they would take too big of a hit if they dropped. No but I think I think the bigger thing is that this was probably in production and they made their own product and they can't afford to lose money on this product whereas Amazon repurposed an existing product. Let's not forget. You know it's just a playbook. It's just a playbook. I mean they spent money doing the software playbook. But yeah I mean last year's model. I think it still will appeal to people even if you know the buyer is a big hit. I mean they're not going to sell as many because of the reasons you mentioned before. Well I mean Amazon. Well and also Amazon hadn't existed the last time they were trying to sell a cheap tablet. Right right. And now Amazon has a cheap tablet and they're selling believe me buyers don't really care that it's got a little hook on the side. Like they don't. You don't put that on your carabiner. I do think there's something to a full. Touch experience and obviously nook you know Barnes and Noble has already been benefiting from this. Well there's a slight learning curve to an ink tablet. Thank you. Who's the red wine for. So I went from Pacifico to a glass of red wine. That's fine. I mean I'll party. Do you want to share this. I mean you pour some into my. Let's also publicly thank him. Thank you. Thank you. Let the world know. Thank you so much. You leaving. No he's going. I'm going. Good. Do you want this. This is healthy. Anyway I want to you know I want to take a break here for a moment and I want to ask the you stream for the people who listen to the podcast. You're not going to know. But is it do you. Does it bother you if we're drinking during the podcast. Is it something that is upsetting to you or would you care. Do you have an opinion either way. I prefer this be a dry podcast. It seems. Yeah. They're drinking as well. Some may be insulted says one person. Somebody said offended. OK. Anyhow. No color. So they drop the price of no color to one and nine. But now that's competing with the five. I'm sorry but like if that's the if that's the competition I feel you're going to buy the fire. Right. Yeah. I don't get it. Right. Because that's that's where is way better. What I was saying is that the ecosystem is better. You have a color tablet. I think it's very intuitive and if you have that in the store where you're already like the tablet where you're already shopping for books I think there's just something to seeing on a color screen. Oh I can tap an icon of a colorful book and get that book. It's just like a real there's a quick through line. Yeah. To the idea of purchasing a book when it's a color tablet in it. I don't know the selling the color they've been selling the no color. Yeah but it's slow and it's a little. I don't know. Well that's what I'm saying. Right. So it doesn't. I think that because Barnes and Noble has brick and mortar bookstores that people are there already to buy books they still have that leg up. Yeah that's true but not a huge leg up. The Kindle fire is going to be in 16000 retailers including Best Buy. Right. So actually there's more best buys than Barnes and Noble. You're more likely to find my mom in a Barnes and Noble than a Best Buy. You're more likely still more likely to find my mom in a Barnes and Noble than a Best Buy. We go back to the mom. This is our old mom debate. I gave my mom a Best Buy gift certificate she wouldn't. She would not be happy. What was our mom argument was about the nook the original. You guys made a bet that the soccer moms were really going to go. Yeah. Well the nooks been a very successful product from what I could tell. So this guy the original nook. What do you mean this guy. I think I was the one who was arguing for the moms. You never argue for the moms. You're classically anti-nonsense. Josh was arguing for the moms and I thought but there was some bold statement about it. I don't know. There was no like no no no no. I don't think so. I think it was just that he was going to perform good enough to warrant a second and third version. Yeah. Laura screaming it was me you jerks. It was Laura. So I don't know. I don't even know what's going on in there. The Barnes and Noble CEO was like so excited about their stores and for the reason you're talking about Paul is like that the moms would come in. He didn't say the moms. And you know the ladies come in here. Yeah. Who said this. He didn't say the moms. He was sleazy about it. No he wasn't. He made it sound sleazy. He was talking up the fact that you know they have these stores then they have in-store support. So I do agree with your point. I'm sorry but that was an HP. Can I just say that was an HP argument about the touchpad. They're like we've got our touchpad butlers. They're going to train you on how to use it and you can. We have great retail. Yes we have great retail display. I don't know if it was in person but they intimated they would have a level of service that was just so superior that you would go well it's going to buy that Amazon but who knows what's going to happen when I get it. You know if I can't figure it out. Yeah but that's BS. I believe that's marketing. I fell for it. Yeah but if I was a mom I would definitely. Hards and Noble does actually have stands right now for Nook's and there's a dude or a dudette behind that stand ready to help you out. Trapped. Unable to leave. A ladybro. A ladybro. Forced into explaining the features of the Nook tablet to you. To your mom. To your mother. Forced to talk trash about the Kindle Fire. I agree with you. You think it's a leg up? Yeah. I think you're there to buy a book and there's books on those devices. You know what? That happened to my dad. He just bought it. Here's what's going down. You're shopping. Books. You're in there. You're like cha-ching. My mother would love. It's like that. Cha-ching. You're there using the free wifi. My mother would really love the Nook tablet. You know what you have to do. You've got to put like. I forgot to get her a present last year. I didn't get her anything. Yeah I think that's what I've heard about your mom a lot. For the last two years. You talk about what you're going to get her for her birthday or something. What? Paul's mom. Paul talks about his mom. Way to weird out the whole podcast. I really appreciate that. I just want to talk to Paul about his mom. This isn't about my mom. I think it is. I think it is Paul. A metaphorical mother. I want to talk about your mom. Is it? Look your mother represents America. All right let's move on. This is. We've got to keep going. She's very patriotic. We've got to. Are we talking about the Simple Touch? No. What's it say? We updated it. It's fast page turns right Paul? Very fast. Yeah. All right let's talk about. Very fast. Let's talk about the laptop that you're using right now. Let's talk about how the battery died and I've been pretending to use it. Are you kidding me? Seriously? That's real sad. Wow. No I haven't. I've been watching yours. Yeah. But it has died. It died. It's in its box. So you're using the Lenovo U300 right now. You just put up your review. Well let's pick it up. It looks really awesome. It's an awesome looking laptop. It is an amazing looking laptop. But can I just say like I think this is so such an awesome and dare I say sexy laptop. No it's amazing. You did tweet sexy and I was. It is really it is really handsome. Like I think this is better. And it's seasonal. Can I just say something? I think this is way better looking than the MacBook Air or the Pro or whatever. I think it's just much more attractive. I think actually. Can I hold it? Do you mind? I can. I can also say that I'm not. I can also say that I'm not. I don't like the fingerprints on the lid. Yeah the fingerprints are annoying. And that is disturbing. Is it? Super disturbing. Why? All I do is shove it in. I actually made it so the windows wouldn't boot up so Josh wouldn't complain about windows. Well I was just going to say. I was thinking about you. Well you were talking about how bad the trackpad was. It's not terrible. I've seen worse. But it's not as good. It's not. How much is this? That one is twelve hundred dollars. So it's as much as the Air. That's the big problem. So it's one hundred dollars less than the Air. Look it's one hundred dollars less than the Air. It feels way heavier. How much does this weigh? I think it's like a point three pounds. It feels way heavier to me. Heavier? Yeah hold on let me just. The new one I'm reviewing. Oh yeah. It's totally scientific. Oh no. What's the. Can we. You should pull up a comparison. It is. It's in the review. Why don't you get a comparison of the thirteen inch new Air and this guy. This feels to me a lot heavier. But also. Have Billy switch to me and do this live. It also feels really nice though. It feels really. There's some stuff moving around here. When you open it there's some stuff moving around. Yeah but. So if I'm going to pay the same amount for that I would pay for this. The trackpad should have the same level of responsiveness and multi touch and everything else that I. But it doesn't right. No no Windows laptop has the same sort of. What is going on with trackpads. How come they can't solve. It's a big problem. How come they can't solve trackpads on PCs. I'll tell you the base of the problem. It goes really deep. I spent hours on the phone with some app kids. Hold on here we go. We're using our comparison tool. This is interesting. Uh oh. This one says it's point zero six pounds. Whoa it's not possible. Yes. It looks like. Are you on the database guys. Yeah what's going on over there. Are you sure. This is what they report. I thought it was this one was. That's not possible. Point zero six. Yeah of course I'm not holding this closed so. I don't see a total. It feels a lot heavier. Are you sure. Let me decide. I don't have a. This is the worst. So scientific. I know it is. It's balanced differently. I need a scale. You can feel the battery. Are you pulling a Sony. You're pulling a Sony tablet. The touchpad we're viewing now is really light. There's more battery over here. It could be my bias. My natural bias towards Apple products. You can actually feel the. Joanne I would actually love for you to describe the touchpad problem because this is. So the touchpad problem is. This is really after spending the last year constantly being called by Synaptics after these reviews go up because I'm like always complaining about the touchpad. It really has to do with sort of the software and because Synaptics is now running their software on top of Windows so the integration isn't as tight as obviously we have on the air but also the hardware is the problem. These don't have the same sort of sensors. Yeah. So the problem is the hardware and the software. So. Aside from those. Something's bad and it's the only two things that could be bad. It's a bad sign. Right. But primarily it is the software. It's not like your fingers are messed up. Does Apple have a proprietary technology that's like patented or. Yeah. They can't figure it out. I think they do. I think this whole situation with Apple's. I think I think I think. I think. I feel like Synaptics is trying to find a workaround to be able to do the same thing. Yeah I think this is why the touch the touch response is so good on the on the IOS devices is that they're using the same or similar technology and it's really good. I mean it is one of those things actually somebody did a post in our forums about the scrolling. Yeah. And they were talking about how bad it is on. I mean this is not maybe related but it is all along the same lines. On tablets right. And it's one of those things that's and we've talked about this before. Well on all of Android. All of Android. On all of Android. We've talked about this before where it's one of those things that's very minor but extremely important. And that's one of my. It changes the whole experience. And that's one of my tests. You know the thing where I'm when I look at a new phone I start scrolling back and forth on the icons. Yeah. It's all about like how's the touch response. How is the scrolling. Is it smooth. Is it smooth. And like that's when I'm that's your main way of interacting with a laptop. I mean I'm used and more and more like I've actually been abandoning my mouse a little bit moving more and more to the trackpad. And that's a big deal. I know. And the more I do it the more I'm like you know you're reliant on that trackpad. It's got to be good. And you buy this and you can't. You can't. You can't. The Asus was terrible. Hands down the worst touchpad I've ever used. And you can't swap it out. You know it's like you've only got a few options. You've got to get an external mouse if you want to deal with it. Which is why did I buy a laptop. You know on the scale I gave this like a six on the touchpad. It wasn't it's not the worst. It works fine. Now but the Asus is terrible. I mean literally what's the best Windows trackpad you've used. Yeah best one ever. A normal trackpad. What does that mean. Just like you know a regular touchpad with two buttons. No multi touch. No that. With maybe those scrolls. You're saying hardware buttons alleviate the problem. Yeah. And actually HP in response not only to my reviews but they have taken my reviews very seriously. The first generation of the Envy they and some of the pavilions they went back to using traditional touchpads. I like hardware buttons. I don't know. I wouldn't complain. I don't think this is the best possible situation though I do actually tap to click so I hardly ever. I tried to use your computer yesterday. You would want to have multi touch gestures. You know what the saddest people but if you try to use somebody else's computer it's like you suddenly have no idea how to use a computer anymore. And I tried to use yours while I was like sitting at your desk on a phone call like look something up. Yeah. And it was insane. I don't even know what's happening. What was happening? What was happening? You've got your mouse acceleration like cranked up all the way. You've got tap to click turned on. Yeah. Like when you actually push a button like things launch. It's like completely bonkers. I have it extremely like everybody says this wherever they ever touch my computer and no matter what as soon as someone touches it they do one of my like corner moves which gets all the way. Everything is insane. They do this. They do this. What did I just do? How do I get this back? But I'm on the move. I got to keep going. I got to move. I don't have time to wait for the cursor to move. No but I look at other people's computers and they're so slow. Like yours is like. I might as well. Yeah. Precise. It's really like I'm like using multiple fingers to get the cursor down. I'm like get it over to this side of the screen let me get it down here. I'm like using whole hand gestures. So Joanna would you. This is really it's like a very interesting situation because I really do think that the touchpad why you need it. Oh you're charging. Yeah. Yeah. It's powered up now. Would you say is a really big deal breaker for some of these. Should they abandon multi touch. I mean in the meantime while they're still figuring this out and synaptics just reached out to me to talk about what's coming in Windows 8 because they've started to talk about what's coming. They've finally cracked it. And they're going to be working. You know I think the major problem here has been that Microsoft hasn't been using their drive like Microsoft hasn't been integrating their drivers at the system level right. So actually the Microsoft touch mouse which I had in works really well. Oh really. Extremely well. And there's actually like an expose sort of setting where like if you do four fingers up it will do like all the windows and that sort of thing. They did the drivers there right. They didn't use synaptics drivers. They didn't use a long text. They integrated hardware and software. They did it. And yeah exactly. So that's the missing piece and I think that will hopefully come in Windows 8 but I don't know. That just seems weird to me just because I mean isn't the whole point of being able to create software drivers for hardware is that it is integrated. I mean maybe I just maybe I'm not smart maybe I don't understand how this works. Is there a deeper kernel level where you have to integrate. Well I actually I do believe that. Well I'm actually a hardware driver. I was just working on a new hardware driver. No but I actually think that one of the advantages with the Mac is that there are there are deeper integration. I mean but absolutely. Apple builds a software driver for its touchpad that runs in Windows. I don't think they. Oh that's true. And it's pretty good. They have better hardware. That's actually another point. They have better laptop touchpad. So that's just what. The best Windows trackpad is still the Mac. Right. And so it works so well. So let me ask you a question. Why can't Synapse. So if that's a hundred dollars that's a hundred dollars less than this right. Yeah but you're losing a lot of stuff. I mean I was kind of the last point of the review. That's the last point of the review which is that you don't get an SD card slot which is a big deal and the screen resolution is low. And there's no backlit keyboard. Okay so hold on. So hold on. So I just want to be clear. This is this is their. I type at night a lot. This is their. I don't know what you do. I hear my album typing at night. It's a collaboration with Rupert Holmes. You know what maybe I should go. Maybe Paul and I should go. You guys can just do the podcast. That sounds like a good idea. Get out. Podcasting. Just kidding. I'm not going anywhere ever ever in Eli. So this is this is considered an Ultrabook. This is an Ultrabook. It has a Core i7. Core i5. Core i5 clocked at what? 1.8. Okay. And it. 1.6. How much memory? You've got the 1.8. This is 4. 4 gigs. Yeah. This is actually this one is Core i7. The other one is the Taiwan. So you have the how much is this one? Four gigs of memory. This one. What did I say? 1400 I believe. Okay. Well, because there's a there's the base model is 1200. Well, I want to. Yeah. So I just want to get some things clear because I want to compare some some items. So this is a Core i7. I've got the most specced out highest specced model clocked to 1.8. Right. Isn't that the highest specced model of the air? Yeah. Okay. That's 1400. Oh, so that's not this is like, this is the high end to low end. But yeah, but wouldn't it just be make more sense to get one of these and put Windows on and put boot camp on input Windows on it. I got to pay for Windows. So you'll end up but whatever. Yeah, but then but you have to have the computer for years. Right. So why buy something that's going to be a crappy crappier experience? I mean, correctly from wrong. I mean, this is basically the thread of every single one of your ultrabooks. Yes, every single one that is it's everyone screams at me for comparing it to the air. Well, but why you can run Windows on the air, right? That's what I always say. I'm not I'm not trying to knock Lenovo. I really like this hardware. But no, it seems to me if you're getting a crappier experience and spending about the same amount of money. Okay, so the starting price is $1200. Okay. This one rings up at $1500. Okay. I don't know what and what's the spec of that? This is I seven I seven clocked at one point eight four gigs of RAM. How much storage 128? Oh, really? Yeah. And it's 1500. Actually, wait, this one's 256. That's good. So it's cheaper. It's cheaper. You don't get SD, no backlit keyboard, lower resolution screen. Right. And the trackpad sucks. Right. To me, lower resolution screen and trackpad is bad are like way more important than almost anything else that you mentioned. Right. I mean, those are like the two things that you have to interact with the most. This is terrible, though. That's what I'm gonna say. I mean, that is definitely the best. But if you fanboy, it's not terrible. You terrible fanboy. All right. Let's move on. Yeah, I mean, we're gonna go now. You hang out. What are you talking about? She has a half an hour. I'm talking about this thing. I'm just gonna randomly. You know, because I'm not gonna be able to do this. I'm not gonna be able to do this. I'm not gonna be able to do this. I'm not gonna be able to do this. I'm not gonna be able to do this. She's just gonna randomly. You know what would be great as a snack? We should have snacks on this. We should. You know, we talk about this guy. And actually, this work, this is a good segue because when we're talking about like the two things that are most important, being the screen and the touch response, The Razr is a really good example of like really awesome hardware that's completely like kind of ruined for me by the screen. Hey, look at that. Take this, take this thing away from me. Wow. That's dedication. I don't want this anymore. Thank you. Thank you, Kim. Take this great piece away. Thank you. Yeah, starting to regret not having the red wine. You want that one back? We like drink from it. I would have definitely had the Piscinelli. Go on, go on. So we reviewed the razor this week. Motorola and Verizon were very kind to me. They gave it to me with one day to review, which is always nice. Verizon likes to... They really like to be there with the bionic too, right? They don't want you to spend too much time with the phone. Actually, it's Motorola. You think it's Moto? No, I don't think so. It is. Verizon never has embargoes. It's Motorola. Interesting. Well, that seems worse. Remember the Atrix? Remember the Atrix. Remember when they gave you 24 hours to do the Atrix? The bionic was the same deal. The Atrix with the laptop and the HD dock and the regular dock. And you put up, like, I remember a stub post. You were just like, we're going to spend our time with this, but this is the embargo. This is Motorola for sure. If you're listening, Motorola, it's really terrible what you do. Well, soon they'll be controlled by Google and it won't matter. You know, I feel like... It's true. You know, I feel like there's a lot of similarities to the Atrix too. Because I remember how excited you were for the Atrix. Yeah. I had way less excitement about this phone. And when I went to the Razr event, I came back and I was like, I'm really excited for the Razr after holding it and looking at it just at the event. I was like, it's beautiful, it's thin. You were gushing about it, which I thought was weird because I had zero excitement. And you thought it was really ugly. I knew I hate everything. I do think it's an ugly phone. Fundamentally ugly. So I got it. You know, it's enormous. That's the thing about it that I think is really crazy. I think all phones are ugly. I mean, I don't think the Nexus, the Galaxy Nexus is a very good looking phone. I mean, it is what it is. It's a black phone. It's ugly. Can I tell you that the Galaxy Nexus holding in your hand is way more comfortable than this thing? Well, it's enormous. I mean, I have like big hands. Do you have normal size hands? I have girl hands. She doesn't. You have lady hands. This is so uncomfortable. It is really uncomfortable. It's like wide. It's big and there's actually... Yeah, and these edges. It's these edges in my... This hurts. This is hurting me. Some of you Motorola should be sent to prison for that. I'm going to see to it. I will say it's remarkable that they built an LTE phone that is thin. It's the thinnest phone on the market. Nobody else has managed to do that. Did this go through testing? Except for that huge bump on the one part. I mean, it's smaller than the bump on the Droid X and the bump on the Bionic. If these should have better edges. I don't mind the Motorola bump. It doesn't bother me. I'm just saying it's remarkable they build this thing that nobody else can build. But the screen, I think the screen is terrible. You know, it's a pentile display. It doesn't have white pixels. It only has the pentile arrangement of green, blue and red. So it has kind of more green pixels. A lot of fuss about this pentile stuff. I don't like it. What is stopping everybody from making a retinal display, quality display? That is definitely not it. They said they went for pentile because of the thinness, right? Right. Well, they said they went for AMOLED because of the thinness. So it's also battery considerations. It strikes me that Android just simply isn't, they're not good enough at doing battery management. You really can see it. Keep in mind, it's also QHD. Right. So I think that's what advanced means. So at the event, this is 4.3 QHD, which is what they've done on a lot of other devices. Well, think about the Galaxy Nexus as 4.65 at 720. Pretty big bump in pixels. So this is like a big question now. Because that's pentile too. It's a huge bump in pixels. But I don't know if it's a huge bump in density because of the size of the display. It is a dump bump in density. It's a dump in density. It's a dump in density. No, but it is a bump. Let's find out. I don't know. I thought it looked good when I saw it. I thought it looked really good. But you used a Nexus S, which has a pentile display. The Nexus S is a nightmare beyond description. No, I mean the display is not going to ruin this phone. The feel of it is going to ruin this phone. I mean it's as big as... Do you have anything else to say about it? It's as big as the S2. It's just like the Bionic, right? Yeah, I mean it's the Bionic. No, the skin I think is crazier actually. I think the Bionic skin is one step down. I don't get it. I don't get the craziness. So I will say this. The Nexus S has a DPI of 315. And this one is like 265. So it's a big bump in pixel density. The Galaxy Nexus has 315. And this is 265. A huge difference. 315 is close to the retina display. It's 322. It's 326. It's 10 pixels off. So you're dealing with... So there's a chance it's going to be great. I thought it looked good. I think that the color reproduction is a question. I know you think that your Nexus S display is kind of greenish. It's an awful display. I wouldn't wish it was worse than that. But I'm saying it's the same display as this, fundamentally. I mean it's a little lower resolution. It's a little bit more of a VGA. I just think like... I don't have to look at Moto Blur on the display. That's actually what I said in the review. It's a bad display that looks worse because of Moto Blur. Or whatever they're calling it. I'm just tired of aggressive phones that are attacking me. The commercials for this thing are out of control. The angles on the corners... The same with their new tablets. The new Zooms. I'm wearing the watch. Are really aggressive and scary. They are. And Verizon is like this aggressive, angry, macho, Kevlar shotgun. Have you seen the one with the motorcycle that breaks into the van? This is like the best one. I think it was released today. Did you say the motorcycle that breaks into the van? I want to show it to our viewers. I'm wearing the watch. Is this helpful when you see it like this? By the way, this watch is... We should just do the podcast where we just hold up gadgets like, draw your own conclusions. Is it helpful when I cut Neil's neck? You could. You could slice a jugular with that. Have you seen the ad? The ad is like... It's a nice little short film that has nothing to do with the product. That's me stabbing you and then ripping up in your chest cavity. One of our readers wrote a great sort of forum post on the ad. Somebody liked that. Kim, I'm worried about you. Death of a lamp post. I know what you're talking about. It's one of the best posts that we have. It's the best thing I've ever read. I've actually seen it. What's crazy about that post is I keep seeing it. People are tweeting it. I'm like, oh, what's this? And then I realize it's not somebody who has been employed yet. Not been employed yet. It's a great... It would be a great name for like a... A version of Narnia with zombies. Death of a lamp post. What if I did this and all of a sudden my beard... I'd be shocking. One last thing to say about this phone. Is the thing that's awesome about it is quick actions. Quick actions are cool. Somebody should steal that idea and put it in a phone that I want. I mean, Paul and I... There's like three or four Android apps already available. Yeah, but none of them... I've played with them a little bit. None of them are as good or as integrated as quick actions. By the way, Paul, people aren't hitting on you in the Ustream. Oh, really? While we're having this conversation. Get in there, Paul. They're like offering you hugs and telling you how cute you are. So for the podcast listeners... You look a little too dark, though. Go on. Podcast listeners, you don't know. And you can set them up to do all kinds of crazy... On Sunday night, we had it so that every time I unplugged the headphones, I sent Paul a text message that said, I've unplugged my headphones. Which you probably don't want to do, but it's that level of flexibility. That's cool. I'm sorry, I'm distracted. Apparently my shirt is... Sorry, are you not seeing the 3D pattern that my shirt is projecting? Yeah. Go on. Remember those pictures that were hot? Really hot? What are they called? I've been looking for a boat in your shirt. I saw them in a kiosk in the middle of the mall. Yeah, and you cross your eyes. It's like an orca whale. This is one of the dumbest things that humans have ever come out with. You see a 3D image appear in this... Magic eye. In this sea of garbage. It looks like a sea of crap, but if you cross your eyes... Have you guys never seen Mallrats? Yeah, it's a schooner, not a sailboat. It's a schooner. It's finely seasoned at the end. It's a schooner. I have no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever seen Mallrats? I've seen trans morphers. You don't need to see Mallrats. That might be on Netflix. Sometimes I ride my bike places. I do a lot of things with my phone. I just don't even know how you spend your time, man. I'm giving you a list. Starcraft? By the way, I think, Joanna, people are accusing you of stealing the answer about Magic Eye from the Ustream. Did that happen? No, I swear to God. Don't lie to me. I referenced it earlier in the day. You did? I'm going to tell you a story about what happened in our chat room. God, if only we had some music to go with this. I kept seeing these slashes with the circle. Like an emoticon. No, high fives. But I had no idea what that was. And I kept saying, I don't see it. By the way, the circle is the letter O. Can you put one in to use... Oh, that's a high five? And I kept seeing in our chat room... I thought that was like this. Me too. What's this? This one is like, I don't know, I give up. But it's not the goat. That's not the goat. But an O with one slash is like an invitation to high five. Yeah, and so then you do it backwards. Oh yeah, that makes sense. And I didn't know what it was. And everyone kept saying it's a high five. I said, I don't see it. I was literally staring at the screen. I got it. I got the goat now. And I was like, this is like a Magic Eye. And that was the story. A Magic Guy? What were we talking about? The Razor? Whatever. Oh, quick actions. Oh, quick actions. I've been calling them quick actions. They're actually smart actions. Quick actions are from WebOS, right? I can set one up right this second. I set one up where like every time you unplug your headphones... We were there. You were checking your email, buddy. We talked about it. Yeah, but the people in the podcast haven't heard about it. No, I said it on the podcast. I wasn't listening. I know. No one ever listens. No one ever sends Paul a text message. What does it say? It says I've unplugged my headphones. That's awesome. But why? It says, Neal Eye's unplugged. What's the problem? Oh, I can do it over here. We're all going to do this together. Camera operator. I need some headphones, guys. You're wearing them. Oh, you need another pair. Interns bringing it into action. We got them. Here we go. Thank you. So, unplugged. Are we talking about WebAway last text? Yeah. I'm going to definitely leave before that. No, you're not. You're not going anywhere. I am. I'm going to turn this away so I can select Paul Miller's phone number. Paul, is that your number? Which one? Which one should I pick? Don't use any of those numbers. Was his number just done? Don't say 509. Now they know part of the number. It's just a few more steps and they're going to call you. And be like, hey, I saw your hair. What's going on? Did you turn evil? There's a lot of debate about my hair, by the way, today. Really? All right. So now this thing is set up. So, can you see this, Chad? So, when I plug in the headphones, it's set up to launch audio. There's some hilarious stuff going on. And then when I unplug the headphones, Paul is going to get a text message. Can you see that? Which is really, really foolish, but really awesome as well. Is that working? I saw it pop up the... Yeah, there it goes. Paul just got a text message. Can you show that to the viewer? Yeah. I mean, it's foolish. Oh, because it's not iMessage. Oh. Well, you can show the number. It's not ours. Dude, no headphones. That's what it says? It's my new party message. So, the practical usage... Now that there's notifications on the phone, it's so hard to open up the phone without revealing everything about my personal life. Yeah, you can send an email. I've got a calendar item for lunch. People know that I eat lunch. So, here's the thing about the email client. All the Smart Action stuff isn't integrated with Gmail. It's integrated with Motorola's janky proprietary email thing, which is dumb. Oh, are you serious? See, I would have it set up that if my battery was dying, it would email me. And actually, the mail icon that they put on the front screen is not Gmail. It's Motorola email. Yeah, they want you to tap into their ecosystem. It's one more part of the skin that's super overwrought. But you're asking what it would be useful for? Yes. It knows where you are. So, when you go home, it knows that you're home. It can turn off Bluetooth because you probably won't use Bluetooth at home. It can turn the display down. It's like Siri with no voice. Yeah, but you have to do it all manually. And no information. So, automatic usefulness. Yeah, it knows, like, you come to work, turn my ringer off. I guess, no, see, that would be great. Siri doesn't do those things for you. It does do X, Y, and Z. That's nice. Everything. Every function on the phone can be manipulated. Every system function. If there's one thing that Google boosts after they get a hold of Motorola, they should pull that in. Because that's actually, you can advertise that as a thing that is cool that the iPhone does not do. Wait, wait. Why would you want to advertise features of your phone? Yeah, exactly. Why not just advertise the mood of your phone? Yeah, like the vibe of a robot. But that is the weird thing. Apple specifically advertises features. They're like, here, it does this thing. Isn't that cool? That's what this guy said in the thing. That's what I said in my rhyme editorial. They should just listen to us. So, by the way, all the people in the Ustream who are saying Tasker and Locale do these things, they do them, but they're not as integrated. And they're definitely not as smooth. Tasker is an Android app? Yeah. You can play with it, and people should go check them out. But, A, they're not free on the phone that you buy. And they're definitely not as integrated and not as smooth. I'm going to check out Tasker. Tasker is great. Everybody should go try it out. I'm going to check out Tasker on my next assess. I think Locale is the other one that's really good. What's the best one, Tasker or Locale? They're all saying Tasker. They are all saying Tasker. Except for those guys who have Tasker socks. Yeah, exactly. Tasker is for losers. People who are into baggy clothing. He's a loser. You know him. Always wearing Jankos. All right. I don't want to have to do calculus to figure out how to get my phone to power down at Bluetooth when I get home. Yeah, this is like you push a button, it turns it off. I'm going to do a quick Google search right now for Tasker. Are you leaving, Stern? Well, enjoy dinner. You know, I have to be home early to be lonely. Wow. That was sarcasm, wasn't it? It's got a great website. Yeah, that's an awful website. That's not the right website, is it? I can roll because I won't be here later. Really? You preemptively Sternburn me? That's terrible. Was that a Sternburn? Because people were asking for it earlier. I think I found the right website. Wow, this one's even worse. What are we doing? I'm just moving over. Okay. What's happening? Wait, wait, wait. There's going to be a whole chair between us? Yeah, I know. We're going to be really far apart. I thought you said there's going to be a whole between you. What if you move that chair out? No, I'm just going to keep this chat and this microphone going high. I think I'm going to be TV close. You want me to be closer? Yeah, so just pop that chair out. You really screwed up. What you need to do is get rid of that chair and just kind of get more centered. That's what I'm saying. You don't need to be 100,000 feet away. I would like to be 100,000 feet away. Chad, what is the farthest away I can get? I wish you guys could see Chad right now. He looks very frustrated. I think Chad's sick. Chad, are you sick, buddy? He's sick of our BS. All right, next topic. Yeah. What is our next topic? It's WebOS. No, no, it's Paul. I'm so excited about WebOS that I just want to go right to it. You did a bunch of work this week. If you guys haven't seen this, can somebody drop the link into our chat room? Paul did a feature on robotics, on robots and robotics. It was kind of about Dennis Hong, who is what is his official title? He's a professor of mechanical engineering, and he runs the Romalaw lab at Virginia Tech. Basically like mad scientist robot guy at Virginia Tech. You went down there, you did a bunch of video stuff. You wrote this gigantic feature that was extremely awesome and also huge. Huge, as some people might call it. It's an incredible video with tons of awesome pictures. What would you say was the gist of your piece? For people who maybe haven't read the 5,000, you should read the whole thing. Take the time, sit down, take a break from work, take a break from all your worries, and read Paul's piece because it's super interesting. Did anybody drop it into the chat room yet? Somebody should, I'm sure somebody will, Laura or somebody. Give us the outline, the broad strokes. The basic thing that I discovered, I've been really interested in robotics for a long time. I love robotics. Paul is our resident robotics expert. It's hard to be, I don't know a lot about robotics because it's a very wide field. When you get down to the nitty-gritty, there's a wide range of disciplines of electronic engineering, computer science, mechanical engineering, and each of those is vast and deep. Robotics is really, really hard. It's really difficult. You didn't think it was just like start pushing things together, they become ambulatory? Dude, I built like 50 robots when I was a kid. I don't know. I read things in the past about what robotics need to be doing to gain consumer adoption, and I stand by them. It's just that those things are really hard to achieve. Being able to spend a lot of time interviewing people in the robotics community, visiting this lab, and going really in depth on a specific robot that they're building called Sapphire, I try to expose the actual depth of the problem. I still have to cut out a lot of stuff because there's just so much that goes into building a robot. Is your idea about robots, has it changed from getting this deeper look? I still love robots. What is it you love about robots? Can you tell me? I don't know. Can we try to explore it? I think there's a dream in my mind of me asking a robot to go get something out of the kitchen. That's the thing? It's a basic laziness. You want a butler. Yeah. A human will do that for you too, for money. You don't have to have a robot do it. Yeah, but it would be cooler if a robot does it. Do you feel like there would be less guilt associated with it? I think if you look at all the things that we have our existing electronic devices do, it's about saving time, increasing convenience. I was going to say there's a bunch of transmorphers in there. They're like transmorphed just randomly. Is transmorphers about robots, by the way? Yeah. Really badly rendered. I was going to say, we didn't have the time or the servers to really do the right job on this. Anyhow, go on. All the things that we use our smartphones for and our laptops for and our microwaves for, a lot of this stuff is just to make things more convenient and faster. You see a robot that will take calls from you and also have a stomach piece where you can put a sandwich into to get it heated up. I just think robots aren't that interesting to the tech industry right now, but I think five to ten years, it's going to be the smartphone or the tablet. How long do you think? Is it five years? It's closer to ten years. I think there will be a landmark product in about five years that will start entering our homes. Do you think Apple will create it? No. Who is it going to be? It's going to be iRobot. Wait, let me ask you this question. One thing I got from Hong and from you is that there are so many different things that are tied into robots and making robots go. Do you think this breakthrough product will be like an ambulatory robot that can go to your fridge? I look at Siri and I look at the Roomba and I'm like, these are robots. They're just different kinds of robots. They're also in similar stages. Siri is to voice recognition what the Roomba is to a robot that helps you around the house. Maybe Siri is a little more advanced. It's obviously going to be a combination of some of those things. So iRobot is building a robot called Ava, which I really think is going to be the one once they get it all figured out that can kind of map out your – This one is the creepiest. The big dog. The big dog is the creepiest robot. The big dog is. So awesome. Well, that's like the thing we saw, we reported on way, way back in the day at Engadget, which was that hover thing that just had a bunch of guns on it. Oh, no, no. The big dog is the one that has four – No, no, I know. I understand that. I'm saying the big dog is terrifying to watch. There are certain robots that are terrifying. There's a robot – I can't think of the name of it. It's a very – it looks like – what's the name of this robot? I just have the – Petman? Yes. Pipman. Oh, Pipman. Right. Pipman is terrifying. Right. Pipman is like – he's a Terminator. Yeah. I mean, you can see how somebody might take control of Pipman and use him to attack you and kill you. And I think Pipman is probably in some sense the most advanced robot right now. The problem is that it uses an external power supply. How mad is Hong about Pipman? Do you think? Seriously. I have no idea. I mean, he references the stuff that they're doing. He referenced big dog in my interviews with him. So the problem with CMU is that they're doing stuff for the military and they basically won't show it to anybody. They show these YouTube videos every once in a while to show how awesome they are, but they don't really get in depth. It's not going to be IRO. They're not sharing their knowledge. And what's going to happen is they're going to come up with a robot soldier. Right. And then it's game over. And that's the problem with IRO. That's what they need to do because then it's like nuclear weapons can be completely decommissioned. No. Yeah. How does that connect to the nuclear? You just put them on the robot soldiers. Because once you have a robot soldier, you can do anything you want. Yeah. This is basically the part of the understanding. Have you seen Terminator? Have you ever played Metal Gear? I played the original PlayStation. And have you understood one element of anything that's going on in a Metal Gear game? Because that is the future of robot soldiers. I don't know. What's the latest in Metal Gear? What did they do? Well, it's four, right? Guns of the Patriots. Yeah. What happens? I don't know. I played it for like 75 hours. I have no idea what happened. What did you say? How is that the future then? I don't know. That was my experience with Metal Gear. I was like, I don't know what's happening. No. It was awesome. But the robot in the original Metal Gear is a nuclear weapon. Metal Gear. Metal Gear is a nuclear weapon. Yeah. I get that. But then in four, by the time you get to solid four. Okay. Fine. It's a patriotic. You can't decommission nuclear weapons. But suddenly your army gets way more badass if you have robot soldiers. Yeah. No, there's no doubt. You're like, oh, you guys are sending humans to the battlefield? Well, we've got a bunch of robots that have no mercy and they have no sense of who you are, what you're doing and just want to kill you. The problem with that, there will be advances there that will trickle down, but typically military technology takes like a decade or two to trickle down. I mean, have you ever seen the movie Hardware? No. Hardware is one of my favorite. You've never seen the movie Robot Jocks? Yes. Hardware is one of my favorite sci-fi movies. It features a cameo from Lemmy from Motorhead, who I was in a bar with in LA. Not like with him, but I was in a bar with him. He was at the bar. Can I just say something just totally off topic? We're getting really deep here. I was in LA and Lemmy from Motorhead was in a bar that I was in and he was playing like video trivia at the bar. It was the craziest thing. If you know who Lemmy from Motorhead is, it's one of the most bizarre things and I was pretty stunned. Anyhow, but Hardware is a movie where it's like a robot that was used by the military, a killing machine. Like Johnny Five. It's brought home as an art project and puts itself back together and goes on a kill crazy rampage. That sounds awesome. It is awesome. There's also like an X-rated sex scene in it that they edited for the US version. Oh, weird. With the robot or without the robot? The robot's not involved, but it's pretty sexy. That's basically the opposite of the Short Circuit movie. It really is. It's like having parties. The opposite of the Short Circuit is like, it's a nice robot, zero sex scenes. This is like horrible robot, tons of sex scenes and Lemmy from Motorhead and everybody's poor. Wow. Literally the opposite. Yeah. Anyhow, we're way off topic. Let me wrap up how we, however we got to this. One, military robots are going to be the most advanced robots, but that stuff isn't shared typically. A lot of the stuff that iRobot is doing, not iRobot, a lot of the stuff iRobot and CMU does is for the military and that stuff ends up being siloed. So even though iRobot does make consumer robots, they don't necessarily get to use all that technology. But, or at least they don't get to use that money. Yeah. Right. They don't get to use military money. It always trickles down, doesn't it? It does, eventually. And it is finally trickling down in the Ava for iRobot, I think. And they're going to attach an arm to it. Oh my God. Whatever you say they're going to attach X, it doesn't matter. If it has to be attached, that's bad news. Well, right now it doesn't have an arm, but they've implied to me that it will. Is it a human arm? Hopefully. Okay. Can you imagine? And it will be very useful. Sorry, Boston Dynamics. What was that? We've been saying CMU for- Did they do- Yeah. No, they didn't do Pet Man. They didn't do Pet Man. No, I've been horribly wrong. It's Boston Dynamics. Oh, so Pet Man and Big Dog are related. Yes, and they're both by Boston Dynamics. Can I just say, they got to start coming up with better names. Yeah. Pet Man and Big Dog sound like attacking- But isn't there a competitor to Big Dog? It sounds like a nickname for a fellow teammate on a football team. But there's a competitor to Big Dog called Alpha Dog, and that's just like- No. Now you're just getting crazy. Is there? No, Alpha Dog is Big Dog's successor. So it's not a competitor. So you don't know anything. I really don't know nothing. There are a bunch of- I hate robots. This is not your wheelhouse. No. Bunch of similar robot- Do you guys want to talk about patents? There's literally no consumer-facing application for any of these robot- No, if you're a rich guy- No, but Big Dog and Pet Man have no- Right. There is nothing in your home that is remotely- Nobody's working on it. Nobody's making it. Right. And a humanoid that's useful in your home is like 20 years away. Easily. I mean, 20 years is probably being generous, right? I mean, how long have we had cell phones until we got cell phones that did something really interesting and cool? It's been like 150 years of cell phones. You saw that movie on YouTube. No, no, no. All I'm saying is that the way we critique tablets and cell phones right now where it's like, that's pretty good, but if they did this and this- You think we'll be doing that with robots in- Yes, I think in five to ten years that's how we're treating robots. This robot did a pretty good job of getting that out of my fridge, but it should have been more effective. I agree. Even like what we're talking about, Siri. Siri is pretty cool, but it's somewhat limited. You don't think we'll come up with something like Tractor Beam technology that will obviate the need for robots? That'd be awesome. That's a beautiful idea. That's your next feature. Yeah, will Tractor Beams obviate the need for robots? You could write that. Maybe I will. And you should riff on this title, so it's like beaming as bebop. I don't understand that. No, no. All right, let's move on. Oh, it's a music thing? Well, it says walking is jazz. Oh, oh, oh, secretly clever. Secretly clever. That's actually, that's my first pop psychology book. Secretly clever. Secretly clever. The I Patel Story. The I Patel Story. Secretly clever. His whole life. His whole life. No one knew. No one knew his dark secret. Secretly clever. The Neli Patel Story. Let's move on. What death do you want to talk about first? Flash or WebOS? Let's do WebOS because we're going to lose people when we start talking about Flash. Yeah, yeah. No, we won't. So HP. HP, this week Reuters reported that HP was in talks, deep, deep in talks to sell off, potentially sell off WebOS to the highest bidder. And that story, by the way, you know, that story, there's criticism of how we, like, new media cover stories, right? We do these updates. That story changed dramatically over the course of two days and they never pointed it out. So first they were... That's the beauty of traditional media is they can change a story completely. And they are never held accountable. Do you know why? No comments. Nobody's like, what happened? This story was different because they don't have them. Bloomberg does the best job of pointing out. They put the updates at the top. They say update. Bloomberg's the real deal. But anyway, so Reuters... I don't know what they're doing. They do a good job. Reuters reported the story came out initially that was HP deep in talks and Oracle's... Everyone's talking about Oracle. Leading. Which is nuts. They would want it for the patents. They want it for the patents. Also, Mark Hurd, who was the CEO of HP when they bought... What do you think Hurd is thinking? Let's get that back. I want Oracle to make smartphones. Yeah. I mean, do you think Hurd had any interest in smartphones to begin with? I mean, I think there's probably an element of it where he thinks it's kind of funny and kind of hilarious to buy it from HP. He's just like trolling you. This is a $1 billion joke. No, basically. I mean, I think... I mean, I think... I mean, I think... I think he basically said HP is stupid for getting rid of Mark Hurd. No, he didn't basically say it. He verbatim said they're stupid. He said they're bozos and they're blowing it. That should be his new thing. Well, he has his... They're stupid is their bozos. Yeah. It actually really is. Yeah. So, I mean, I think there's probably an element where Hurd wants to buy it just to make HP lose money on it. But then, you know, they're suing Google. I can't imagine there's truly an element where Hurd wants to buy it just to make HP lose money. Well, they did blow it. I mean, they are bozos who blew it. I can't imagine Hurd is like, I'm going to make them pay by rebuying Palm. No, no, no. I don't think it's I'm going to make them pay. I think there's a big strategic advantage for Oracle to do it. I think they're in the middle of a lawsuit with Google about Java and Android. So, he's like, HP doesn't know what they have. Right. You know what you got till it's gone. Right. And it's like, and we can use this to force Google's hand. I think that's great, right? Yeah. But then later, the next day that the Reuters story was updated, secretly updated to add a secretly rim. What was it? Secretly clever. Is that what it was? Yeah. It's this guy. Who was the secretly clever person? Neelay Patel. It was updated. It was everybody. It was rim. It was I think who else was in the mix there? It was Oracle, IBM, Lenovo. LG. LG. Yeah. So, everybody that we've ever heard about. Everybody. And then the next day, this is I think where Josh, you should pick up the story. Yeah. So, the next day we had multiple sources saying, and I'm trying to think of the best way to phrase this because it's not as easy to explain in what you saw on the site, two or more sources. That's a lot for us. If you get one person saying that you can trust saying this thing's going to happen, that's one thing. If you have two reliable or more, that's a big deal. Said, there's Meg Whitman, CEO of HP, not CEO of Palm or WebOS, CEO of the entire company of HP which is way, way bigger than WebOS and Palm. Way bigger. Like really it's a drop in the bucket comparatively. It's holding in all hands and there's going to be a decision. There's going to be some decision made or talked about at this all hands meeting. So, we ran a story saying that HP, that Meg Whitman was going to hold in all hands. It was likely going to be the decision and they hold in all hands and the all hands is like a 15 minute sit down where Meg Whitman's like, you know what? I don't really know what we're going to do. And she said some really crazy stuff too. I just want you to know I'm not sure yet. And the thing is, the weird thing is when have you ever heard of the CEO of a company holding in all hands to tell people that she's still thinking about something? Right. Like that's just not done. So, here's the quote that we ran. Meg, she was just hitting refresh on the verge. There's a new story like, oh, all hands. You know, that's an interesting answer. Maybe I should have all hands. I actually have a theory. My theory is that, and I really, in my heart I've begun to think this is what happened. I think that they were going to tell that team about something. They were going to say some definitive move. Because by the way, it's been since August 18th. August 18th. Wow. That's when Leo Apotheker said. That's when Leo Apotheker said we're done making touch pads, we're done making phones, we're going to look for strategic alternatives or whatever. And Meg Whitman came on in, how long ago was it? Three weeks ago. Three weeks ago. But they have been talking and thinking about this thing. It's been like three months now. So, three months into it, with this just people flailing, people leaving, you don't come to that group and say, I don't know. Right. We might go big or we might go home. So, and lest you think that we are overstating this, the quote that we ran, that we're very confident in, is that she said, it's not obvious exactly what to do here. Yeah. Which is an insane thing to say. And then she said, well, and this is another quote that we got, if HP decides to keep web OS, we're going to do it in a very significant way over a multi-year period. HP can make a bet that expensive. But she doesn't know whether or not it's worth it. Yeah. And then she said, and that's only if you consider tablets. If you add in cell phones, the whole equation changes. Yeah. So, we actually heard, I mean, there was some chatter that a lot of people now think, or some people think, that they're going to keep it. Who's left to develop it if they keep it? Right. I mean, start a hiring process. That's a problem you can throw money at, if you're HP, I think. I don't think it's a problem you can throw money at. I think talented people want to work on successful projects. I disagree. Look, I'm developing a new mobile Linux, Josh. I'd like you to lead it. It's doomed. Web OS is doomed. No, that's what I'm saying. I don't think you can throw money at Web OS. It's going to be on a coffee maker with Netflix. I don't think you can throw money at developing it. I don't think you can get the people to not work at Apple. I mean, let's talk about the proposition of Web OS in any situation where it is not simply held for its patents. It is, we are going to create a fourth now. Okay, you have Google, Apple, and Microsoft buying. RIM is on the decline. Anything can happen, but RIM is not in great shape. Nokia is out. Symbian is not a thing that's happening. MeeGo is not a thing that's happening. Web OS has failed twice. The proposition is we're going to re-up staff, money. We're going to try to do a new mobile platform. And the tagline will be, we're totally serious. Yeah, it's really happening. It's not going to happen. It can't happen. The climate is all wrong. People are not – you have problems within Android, and that's a single ecosystem essentially. And it's winning. And it's winning. We were just talking about it, right? There's fragmentation on phones now that you have Amazon, Barnes & Noble. And it's a runaway success. That's a runaway success. Microsoft clawing its way, trying to claw its way back to relevance with Windows Phone along with Nokia. RIM completely flailing. I mean, they're on the decline right now. And these guys are going to come out of nowhere and say our stuff is better for some reason because we have cards. In 2009, it seemed somewhat realistic. In 2011, I don't see it. Yeah, but again, that's why Oracle – that's why they seem like the most reasonable bet because Oracle can buy them. They can buy them from the intellectual property. They can buy them from the patents and then use them to collect licensing fees from Google, who is the winner. I mean, or HP could hold onto those patents. And do what? What if HP said, okay, Microsoft, we're sorry for playing around with our own things. We're going to go all in Microsoft. We're going to make Windows 8 tablets and we're going to make Windows Phone phones. And we want to be another Nokia. We want to bring our patents and our IP. They don't have any credibility. Nokia has credibility all around the world. Here's a place where I could see WebOS. One place I could see a possible working relationship. HTC either buys or licenses – hold on, let me finish. I've been saying this for like three years, dude. Amazon. They're not – they're not using – I think I said this too about Amazon actually. They're not using WebOS as a platform. WebOS becomes the skin and all of the card stuff and the notifications and whatever else, it's all baked into Android. Because really there aren't that many differences. It's a different way of multitasking, which I think you could do. I mean, in fact – They have to all be designed in Java. Well, the new ice cream sandwich basically works like WebOS. You see cards, you swipe them away to get rid of them, but you swipe to the right instead of up. I mean, I'm just saying – You know what I see? I see HTC's future. I mean, I've been thinking this for a long time. HTC? HTC. Yeah. I think that they like Android. I think that they've moved away from Google in a very significant way. I don't know that Google is super happy about Sense and the things that HTC is doing with Sense. I don't know that I'm super happy about Sense. Well, I mean, I'm just saying that I think Google is trying to take a little bit more ownership of their experience. And I think HTC has had a long and illustrious relationship with Microsoft. And I see them headed more in that direction over time. To Windows Phone? To Windows Phone. Really? Yeah. I mean, they're paying a bunch of money to Microsoft. Well, that'll be – The Radar is really one of the nicest phones this year. No, it's nice. And they're advertising it heavily. Yeah. And the Radar is 50 bucks, right? It's so nice. Yeah. It's not 50, is it? Yeah, it's a little one. That's a low end. Yeah. It's a pretty nice low end phone. Yeah. I mean – All I'm saying is WebOS, there aren't a lot of options unless you want to use it on your printer. Hence Meg Whitman's inability to come to a decision. I'm sorry. I just – I would love to – can I go back and talk to the people who were like talking about how cool it would be? I think John Rubenstein was one, who I love, is a great guy, really smart. We've had many conversations over the years. Many margaritas. Many margaritas. Can we just revisit your it's going to be great on printers stuff and just get a reality check on that? Do we talk about this on every podcast at this point? I think we do. We should just move on. We should just move on. Anyhow, WebOS is – There's a good segue. We're going to find out in a month. That's it. Well, she said three to four weeks they're going to have an answer. It'll be a month. I think they had an answer that night. I think they had an answer and they didn't want it. They didn't want to say after there was hype about it. Well, then the answer has to be we are going to sell it. They'll probably do it right after their earnings. You think they want to have a secret all-hands and then the news would leak out later? Yeah, basically. Yeah, something very subtle wasn't going to be like a splash. They're doing this thing. Here it comes. It was going to be like – What I'm saying – They're signing it off and it trickles out. What I'm saying is if that's true, then they were going to sell it. They were going to keep it. What? Oh, my God. The news were going to double down on WebOS again. What is the point of having that meeting? If you're selling it, what do you care if people stay? What do you mean? It wasn't to soothe people, right? To say, hey, guys, don't go – I'm saying if you hold a meeting – But why delay the announcement that you're going to keep it and bet on it? That doesn't make any sense. The verge. I don't think – The verge. That doesn't make any sense. I mean, doesn't it? No. Not at all. I think you want to downplay the hype. You delay the announcement that you're selling it. You don't want to downplay the hype of you're keeping it. Of selling it. That's what I'm saying. They were going to sell it. Either way. I don't know. I don't like it. We should move on. Actually, we were talking about RIM buying WebOS. Yes. I think that that has actually – some other news this week has actually made that a bit more of a realistic possibility. What? No. Listen to me. I got this one. I can do this. See what I did there? No. Look. I'm listening. The Playbook is entirely developed in Flash. It's like totally Flash-based OS. Really doubled down in Flash. Flash is for Android and the Playbook has been cancelled. Can we talk about Flash before you – yeah. Playbook is not entirely Flash. It runs Flash apps. It heavily relies on Flash. No. It heavily relies on Flash. So Adobe this week – let's talk about – don't bury the lead. Adobe. Adobe. Adobe this week said – Qdoba. Qdoba. Qdoba. My favorite – They cancelled chicken burritos this week. Chipotle this week – no. Adobe this week said they are going to cease development on Flash for – Android and the Playbook. Android and Playbook. They, by the way, didn't mention WebOS, which is the other platform they were developing Flash for. It hasn't gone so well. No. They're done. HTML5 is the thing now. They have conceded – It's an amazing quote. Let me see if I can pull up this quote. Can you pull it up? They've conceded that HTML5 is cooler than Flash on mobile devices and they're giving up basically. There's no other way to say it. HTML5 is the best solution, says Adobe. Which is – I mean, that's basically like Steve Jobs, you were right. They waited – I wish he could have gotten to see this in a way. Man, well, I'm happy. I mean, everybody saw this. You know what I think this is? It was terrible. Adobe has been trying really hard to have a web standard and they did. They had for a good, I don't know, decade, decade and a half. They had a web standard. But the technology was moving past them and they ultimately – Adobe's history is serving developers and designers and content creators and ultimately they have to create great tools for content creators and they can't necessarily – right now they've been serving both Flash content creation and HTML5 content creation. They had to bet a horse. They had to bet a horse? What? They had to put their money behind – I don't know how – They had to bet on a horse. Yeah. They had to go all in. They had to put their chips down. And double down. Double down on a horse. Annie up. They had to Annie up and double down on a horse. Yeah. And they doubled down. Bet on black. Now they've doubled down on HTML5. And I think it's a really great decision. Well, we'll see. Wait till HTML6 comes along. They're like, Flash 20. We've been developing in secret. No, I don't think that's going to happen. Flash is over. No, it is. And the thing about them saying we're killing it for mobile and we're going to keep developing it for the PC is like you're lying. You should just tell the truth. And the truth is that the future of all content is mobile. Yeah. If I'm using my iPad and I'm using my Android tablet or whatever, my Android phone – And there's no Flash. And there is no Flash, then you've got to do something or that content just goes away. Right. So what are you going to do? And they should – And more and more that people are going using mobile devices. Right. And what I'm saying we're doing it for mobile is it's a shade. They're shading the truth. But the mobile and desktop is getting closer to parity. Right. And I don't think there's any doubt that mobile will eclipse desktop rapidly. Right? They're approaching parity. I think desktop Flash still has a good five years. Yeah, but it's a five years of like fading away. Slowly fading. Five years of people converting their science to a five. If you want to watch any streaming video – like HTML5 video is getting better for like recorded clips. But if you want – That sounds true. Like streaming video – No, dude. That is all happening in Flash right now. Wait. No, you're crazy. I watch – Just in TV, Twitch TV – NFL Sunday Ticket on my iPad all the time streaming from DirecTV. Oh, that's on a mobile device. I'm saying on the desktop Flash is so – Yeah, but why couldn't you just – but wouldn't it be even better on a desktop? Yeah, like I get angry when I open my laptop. Yeah. Why should I have to suffer through – I'm just saying that's the state of things right now. It's the state of things because that's like the status quo. Because right now you can't lock things down. Like all the – like Mog and RDO use Flash because that's how you lock things down. I mean – No, so actually – no, this is a really great point, Paul. Because I know for a fact that most content – like big content companies, they consider the PC an insecure platform. And they say it all the time. And that's why they're happy to go to Roku and the Boxee Box. That's why they're happy to do mobile because Apple promised that it's an secure platform. I will say that – But the thing that I think is crazy is that not only did they kill Flash for mobile, they killed Flash for the TV, which is what enabled them – which enabled Boxee to build the Boxee Box and say there's a browser. It runs Flash. You can build that stuff. They also killed Flash for TV. They enabled Google to build the Google TV and say we're running Android with Flash. It's a secure – it's no longer like a PC. It's connected to television. It has a browser that's secure and you can use Flash. And all that's dead. So these two huge bets by Boxee and Google have basically been completely undermined by Adobe. And I don't know – So what are you saying? I mean, I just – you know, Google's moving to apps and the Google TV. But like that whole thing that you're talking about where Flash was a secure layer on the PC, that might still be the future for the PC. That's what I'm saying. Is it secure? No, I think you're right. I'm agreeing. I love you, buddy. All right. So the end game is HTML5. Yes, yes, totally. Absolutely. I'm just saying that Flash is going to be around for a while because it is this platform for streaming and for security right now. Right. I mean, it's – On the desktop. For right now. You know what you're saying is Flash is jail. Yeah. Well, I mean – Flash is jail on the desktop. Well, in certain places where there are no other ways to get at a secure solution, that's going to have to do. But I mean – For now. Poor Adobe, man. I mean, HTML5 also just isn't quite future complete. It's getting there, but it's not quite all the way. Right. I agree. I agree with you. Actually, somebody is yelling Silverlight in our chat. And I will say this. Yeah, they're killing Silverlight. They're going to kill Silverlight, too. How are we going to watch the Olympics without Silverlight? That's exactly right. That was what I said. So I want to – That's my first question. How are we going to watch the Olympics? I want to talk about – I got to see Sean White ripping it. What is he, a snowboarder? Yeah. Yeah, that's a skateboard. I think we should do one more thing, and then I think we should wrap. I mean, do a wrap together. Because we have a couple of other topics here that, frankly, I just think we can – we don't have to talk about. Do you agree or disagree? No, we don't have to talk about it. I can just say what they are. No, no, no. Yeah, okay, fine. Tegra 3. Tegra 3 came out. It's official. NVIDIA is very proud of it. Transformer Prime. Transformer Prime came out. Hashtag 3. Hashtag 3. I'm waiting for the trans-morfer font. Trans-morfer Prime. Trans-morfer Prime. Trans-morfer Prime. Trans-morfer Prime. No, it's Tegra 3, but no Ice Cream Sandwich. It's going to launch with Honeycomb. Not interested. I'm an ICS man. Oh, actually, let me just quickly kind of – Asus has been pretty good at updating, though. They actually have been really on the ball, more than anybody. Let me just quickly say on Ice Cream Sandwich, I wrote a post today. You'll be having to know this is my Nexus back in a small way, at least. In a tiny, baby way. About how I badly want the Galaxy Nexus. That's it. There's nothing else to say. You've been hearing me talk about it. We're going to shut down the column after that. That was all. That's it. I hope this is my Nexus. So people can talk about the thing that they want the most. Let's not get crazy. Finally – I think we should get crazy. Finally. Let's get nuts. You want nuts? Finally. I would actually – I'm a little hungry. You nuts over there? Kim's running. No, no, no, no, no. I'm good. It's okay. We have the first On the Verge. It's happening. Which is our new – My parents are coming. What? No. Yeah. The Patels. Oh my god. The Doctors Patel are going to be there. Yes. Oh, I'm going to meet them. Oh, it's going to be awesome. I'm going to meet them so much. You are going to confuse each other so much. I am going to hang with your parents. I'm going to do knockback shots of Jägermeister with your parents. Oh, that is so much. I'm going to take your parents to a strip club. Anyhow – That is the most deep threat that anybody has ever – I'm going to take your parents to a strip club. They're going to love it. Next Monday. Yeah. This coming Monday. On the Verge. New York City. Yep. 7 p.m. You think we could pull it off? Honestly, I have no idea. But I'll say this. It's going to be fun. It may be crazy. Matias Duarte is there. That's going to be awesome. Still not 100 percent sure that I'm pronouncing his name right. But that's fine. That's what the interview is for. That's what the – I'm actually going to spend a half an hour with Matias just trying to get to the bottom of his name. But we have a bunch of cool stuff planned and I'm very excited about it. And I'm going to be there. I'm going to meet them. I'm going to meet them. I'm going to meet them. I'm going to meet them. I'm going to meet them. I'm going to meet them. So that is our show for the week. We'll be back next week with more – well, we're doing the show on Monday and then we're also going to do a video podcast. So it's like you're getting two shows in one week. Yeah. But one has much higher production value. One has much higher production value. One is essentially it's like you're in a gutter in a sewer somewhere. And I'm not going to tell you which one is which but I think you can probably guess. This is the sewer. Anyway, that's it for us. We'll be back next week. We'll be back next week. Thank you so much for listening and watching if you did that and joining in in the Ustream. And I just wish all the best for you and yours over the weekend. And I hope you – you're just dying to say it. And I hope that you enjoy it. I hope that you enjoy your weekend and I hope that you get the rest that I think you deserve. Rock and roll.
 Hey, and welcome to The Vergecast for the week of November 7, 2011.
 I'm Josh Dupolsky.
 I'm Paul Miller.
 I'm Neil Epitow.
 And we have a special guest with us, the lovely and delightful...
 Joanna Stern.
 The semi-delightful Joanna Stern.
 The lovely and annoyed Joanna Stern.
 The lovely special guest.
 The very angry Joanna Stern.
 We don't like to actually be a special guest on the show.
 Who has to leave immediately.
 Yeah.
 She can only be on for...
 She's got to have dinner.
 Yeah.
 Anyhow, this is The Vergecast where we talk about the week in technology news, consumer
 electronics, hopes, Joanna's dinners, hopes, dreams, feelings.
 I was just told there's video on this podcast.
 There is video.
 Did you see this?
 I have no idea.
 We sprung for cameras and everything.
 It's pretty exciting stuff.
 Oh my God.
 Anyhow, this is our second Vergecast, a name which is a hotly debated name, which Paul
 hates.
 Paul, you have to admit, it's growing on you.
 No, it's not.
 Really?
 Not at all?
 No.
 I'm at 50-50.
 You know what The Vergecast sounds like?
 It's like, welcome to my homepage.
 It's under construction, but look at this animated GIF of a guy digging a hole.
 Oh, dude, it has a GIF?
 Yeah.
 The digging GIF?
 I'm looking at your picture from the post and from the article and looking at you here.
 You're like evil Paul today.
 Right now?
 You're like the bad.
 You're like when Paul...
 It's true.
 Paul is unhinged.
 He's unhinged.
 Yeah, that's how you know.
 The glasses...
 I'm the Jared Leto.
 Yeah, you're Jared Leto.
 You're like, I don't know, Paul, something happened.
 It's true.
 He got evil.
 It's like a mixture of you look super kind, but then you're going to murder me.
 He doesn't look kind.
 He looks like a serial killer.
 No, you would take really good care of a bird or a rabbit.
 You mean like Kevin Spacey.
 But then murder an innocent person.
 Like Frankenstein.
 Like Frankenstein.
 No.
 I just don't know my own strength.
 You know, he thought he was hugging.
 He was killing.
 I'm right here.
 I can't even see Paul's face.
 Well, it looks evil.
 There he is.
 It looks like dark Paul.
 Dark Paul.
 Yeah.
 Anyhow, big weekend, big, big, weird week in technology news.
 Ridiculous week.
 Ridiculous week in technology news and consumer electronics.
 And we are going to talk about that week.
 Oh, yeah.
 And so much.
 And we have to finish it by eight.
 Yes, we do.
 I mean, according to Joanna.
 I mean, I'm just going to leave.
 I'm not doing it.
 I'm not doing a two hour.
 I'm putting my foot in the sand.
 Putting my foot in the sand.
 What is it?
 What do you do?
 Putting your foot down?
 Yeah.
 You know, putting your foot in the sand.
 What's the sand?
 Drawing a line.
 Drawing a line.
 The sand is really impermanent.
 I'm drawing a line on my foot.
 OK.
 We're going to bury Josh in the sand.
 Putting my foot in the sand.
 That's my new thing.
 Yeah, that's right.
 There's like a lot of stuff about regular humanity I don't know.
 Like saints.
 You know what happens at the end of Mary Poppins?
 Oh, she dies.
 Oh, come on.
 Really?
 She dies because her umbrella breaks.
 Yeah, she's trying to parachute out.
 She's trying to parachute out.
 Down.
 That'd be a dark.
 That's a dark story.
 Anyhow, let's you guys, man, let's get into this.
 Let's talk about there was a big announcement at the top of the week.
 Yeah, you were there.
 You were there.
 Nook Tablet.
 That was this week?
 Yeah.
 I think it was.
 It was this week.
 It's a long week then.
 It was a long.
 You know, actually, it's really terrible to hold an event on a Monday morning.
 Yeah.
 I thought you were going to say it's really terrible.
 The Nook Tablet?
 Yeah.
 It's a long week.
 It's a long week.
 It's a long week.
 No, I thought you were going to say it's really terrible.
 It's a long week.
 It's a long week.
 I actually really like it and so that's really all I have to say about it.
 That's it?
 I'm gone.
 You're like, I got to go, got to get a arrangement.
 So what do you think?
 I like that.
 I like this.
 I like a lot of things.
 Tell us about the Nook Tablet.
 I'll tell you a little bit about the event because I think the event was actually pretty
 interesting for a Barnes and Noble event.
 They're usually pretty boring.
 Like, they'll have the event upstairs in the bookstore and they did that, but I thought
 the CEO was pretty interesting this week when he was basically bashing on Amazon.
 Oh yeah, no he like went at him.
 Yeah and so you know the live vlog which I thought was gonna be kind of boring turned
 out to be pretty interesting because he was taking them down on each different point.
 They were really they were really aggressive.
 Very aggressive so he went like on each point of the Kindle Fire you know we've got we've
 got more RAM we have in-store support what else was he going on about?
 Better screen better screen yeah yeah and so.
 And a bigger price.
 A bigger price, a nicer design.
 What is it and their justification for that so it's $249.99 the Kindle Fire is $199.99
 and what is the justification for the 50 bucks is it's got an extra 512 of RAM and it has
 more internal storage and it's also expandable.
 Screen is better they say the screen is better.
 I actually think the screen looks better I mean I didn't have them to compare and I haven't
 seen the Fire for a while but you know I think the display is really nice and I actually
 still don't have an answer so he came out with a tablet and held it up and I could have
 sworn the screen was painted on.
 Oh you mean the tablet?
 Really?
 Yeah the tablet.
 He's like look at the look at the resolution of this screen.
 No he didn't ever touch it.
 It's like print.
 The screen is like print resolution.
 Which launched they definitely did that for the original Nook.
 And then you know so then when we went downstairs to do the hands-on they had the ones with
 the painted screen on like they had like the sticker you know.
 There was no hands-on with the tablet.
 There was there was.
 Because I saw it.
 Yeah there were other ones but I still think the one he held up was just like a sticker.
 So is the screen similar to the original?
 It's the same I think.
 Really?
 Yeah it's the same screen.
 Yeah it's the same resolution.
 But that's not that good of a screen.
 No it's not.
 It is a pretty nice screen.
 It's okay.
 It's not as reflective as some but it's also like not very bright.
 It's an IPS display.
 It's very good viewing angles.
 I thought it was pretty bright.
 So you were at the Fire event too so you can compare the two.
 Yeah but in my in my.
 In your mind.
 The Fire screen is the playbook screen.
 We know that screen.
 We know it and we love it.
 You know they actually said.
 He actually said that too.
 He's like oh they have the playbook.
 You know all they did was you know use the playbook.
 Which is an amazing thing.
 Design reference.
 By the way for the CEO of a huge company to say about competitor.
 Well I think it's also.
 They were so lazy.
 I think it's also interesting that not just they're saying that they were lazy but that
 they that the playbook sucks.
 Everybody knows that.
 The playbook is crap.
 We all know that.
 They're like look let's not beat around the bush.
 You know I'm not going to tell you don't.
 We know what the playbook is all about and these guys just reuse the playbook.
 So it's a piece of crap by proxy.
 Like I feel bad for him in this situation.
 Your product is so bad it's being used as an example of how somebody else's product
 is bad.
 Like you playbook this thing.
 It's all playbooked up.
 People are using playbook casually.
 Oh you did.
 You pulled a playbook.
 Yeah.
 It's like for something that happened that was bad.
 Well.
 He pulled a playbook.
 Let's not.
 Let's not.
 We're starting that.
 Going mainstream guys.
 Yeah.
 Don't playbook this.
 Memed up.
 Not going to.
 Okay good.
 Go on.
 That was fierce.
 What else did I have to say?
 Are you ready to be talking about the tablet?
 Yeah.
 I mean I actually I think I do think that even though it's the $50 difference I think
 the biggest hardware aside and you know the software is sort of the experience is all
 hardware and software aside.
 It's a better product.
 Price aside.
 It's the superior product.
 What makes it what makes it a better product?
 Yeah.
 What does make it a better product?
 I'm going to say that I think that the hardware on the Nook could is probably better.
 I like the design better.
 I like the design better too.
 Yeah.
 You know it's a lot better.
 It looks nicer but where Amazon is going to have the real edge killer playbook killing
 edge is going to be in the ecosystem and that's a big problem for I think.
 You know if they mention this they're doing these like custom variants of Android apps.
 They're still running an Android.
 Right.
 They're going to have the deepest Netflix integration of anybody.
 That's a lie because if you read my hands on it's actually just the phone app running
 on there.
 Right but I think I don't think it's ready.
 It's going to get deeper.
 They're like they're going to ping your cue to your home screen and do all this stuff.
 I mean their whole idea is that they're going to have.
 Reed Hastings is all the help he can get right now.
 What do you guys want to do?
 It's weird that we haven't seen that before now.
 Right.
 But it's also like do you want that at all?
 Maybe.
 I mean.
 I mean they have an app problem and I met with them afterwards and they are saying you
 know they're working with all these developers and that sort of thing.
 But you know Amazon's got an app store that they've been working on for multiple Android
 devices and they've already built the collection of apps and now with the fire.
 But they have the same problem.
 I mean in a lot of ways.
 Yes.
 They have a bigger slightly bigger footprint but they still have the issue of they're not
 the actual and not the actual Android store.
 And they've had a lot of problems with their own store.
 A lot of like developer backlash.
 The way that they do pricing.
 The way they do like the free app.
 And they just have to give it away right.
 Yeah and a lot of developers like have a huge influx because they're like the free app of
 the day but then they have to drop support because they have this weird app in a kind
 of a silo of the Amazon app store and they have to choose where they want to invest their
 support and they'd rather put that into the Google app store where people actually paid
 money for their app.
 There are times like this that I wish Steve Jobs were alive because he would get on a
 call somewhere and he would just talk about how ridiculous the Android app situation is
 right now.
 These bozos.
 No they're bozos that are blowing.
 Not only I mean not only are they it is kind of insane.
 You have fragmentation amongst Android devices just full stop like Android market has its
 own problems with fragmentation and now Barnes & Noble huge retailer with a has a big presence
 in these products and Amazon huge retailer about to have a big presence in these products
 also creating their own separate incompatible ecosystems.
 You know what I can't wait to happen for then one of those companies to create another product
 and then some of those apps don't work on that product.
 You mean like a bigger product.
 Yeah exactly.
 No no exactly.
 Like Amazon's going to have like a 10 inch tablet.
 Or like they make like a TV.
 Well no we've heard it's a.
 If you look at the org chart of this it's like Android and then all these like fragmented
 bits and then these big silos you know it's Amazon and then they're going to do their
 make a nice 8 inch tablet and it's going to have their two silos.
 It's going to happen.
 I think we've talked about this before but it's it's it's going to happen.
 We're going to do it.
 We're going to do an infographic on that when it happens.
 It's an approach that's not going to happen.
 That's going to happen.
 Our infographic.
 Yes.
 Really interactive interactive.
 Yeah.
 It's an approach to the market where you can only win if you totally win.
 There's no you don't end up with a good product if you get like 15 percent of the market.
 Well I mean it depends on how valuable that 15 percent is.
 I mean you might be getting a percent of you know really rich guys.
 Well I mean Apple's doing well 10 percent of the P.C. market.
 Right.
 Well you'll be doing better though.
 They could own everyone.
 But no no I mean it is it is troubling though like that we have this.
 It's like it's like a standards war where I think the consumer ultimately suffers.
 Right.
 And now it's like it's growing.
 It's like mutating.
 Right.
 And I think you thought it was over you're like wow this fragmentation is bad.
 And you know Google is like we're going to try to get this in check.
 We're going to offer updates blah blah blah.
 And it's on the stream.
 What's happening.
 Why are you talking.
 I'm looking at pictures.
 Go ahead.
 OK.
 But now it's like not only do they have their problem that all these other guys have their
 problem and developers have to make a decision.
 I feel like if I'm a developer who's making a tablet app this is going to highly encourage
 me to just develop for the iPad.
 It's like biggest biggest audience no fragmentation unless Amazon or Barnes & Noble gives you a
 nice bounty to port your app.
 I mean it's already popular on another platform.
 I mean I asked them about like ice cream sandwich.
 I mean they seem so focused on their own platform.
 I mean the Barnes & Noble representative I don't remember her name right now was you
 know really sort of dodging those questions saying like this is our own platform and we're
 hand picking these apps and you know we're trying to get these.
 Well I mean have you have you used the no color in their apps.
 And they are.
 Yeah you've used them.
 Yeah they are just glorified.
 They're just Android.
 They're Android.
 I mean they are.
 There is no.
 I think the Netflix app is the phone app.
 Right I think there's this idea that like somehow it's different than like a Galaxy
 tab.
 No.
 But it's not.
 It's exactly the same.
 It's actually really depressing.
 Yeah.
 Well you know it's funny.
 We've said for a long time the no color is likely the best selling.
 They said that it was the best selling second second best selling selling behind the app
 but it's definitely the best selling Android tablet.
 Yes.
 Which means that they can actually do the tablet stuff and I mean they're the ones the
 developers should be going to to begin with because they have the biggest installed base.
 Well they can say they can say that but yeah Amazon has a better they have a better ecosystem
 they just have a better pedigree for that.
 You know you know Barnes and Noble is a bookseller.
 Maybe you bought a CD or something from them.
 Maybe a magazine.
 Yeah and I think ecosystem wise that's actually what I'm more worried about.
 Like if I'm really into apps I don't see you know if I'm an app guy I don't see myself
 going for either of these tablets.
 It's for the end to end media experience and Amazon has its own video service and it has
 its own music service.
 Amazon's video and music and their stuff is way more integrated.
 I mean they don't on Barnes the Barnes and Noble the Nook tablet only has streaming like
 Mog they don't have Spotify.
 They don't have side load music.
 No you can side load music.
 They don't have they don't even have all the streaming services they don't have audio.
 They don't have Spotify.
 They have Pandora they've had the Pandora one.
 Pandora is old news nobody cares about Pandora.
 And I think a big you know if you're just lounging around your house and you because
 you and you have Wi-Fi that's great but I don't think that's a huge it's a huge use
 for the tablets is one of the primary uses but you know travel you know being able to
 have stored media on your device and you're traveling and you're being able to entertain
 yourself.
 I mean at least some stored media certainly at the very least cash which you can do on
 on the fire from what I understand right you can cash.
 Yes it has but it has 8gb it's not a ton right.
 It's not a lot.
 It's a couple movies.
 A few movies.
 It's a couple movies and a few songs basically.
 Maybe a couple of movies.
 Oh and the I wouldn't buy an 8gb phone.
 I don't know if that matters.
 Who has Hulu Plus?
 Barnes and Noble.
 Oh good you can pay Hulu for nothing.
 I don't know I'm over Hulu Plus.
 All I know is every time I try to load up Hulu Plus on my Roku it's like sorry you can't
 watch this content on your TV and it's like well I'm glad I have Hulu Plus on my Roku.
 What was I supposed to plug that into?
 Your computer.
 Yeah was it for a laptop?
 I'm hooking my Roku into my laptop.
 Is this cool?
 That probably wouldn't even work.
 So annoying.
 I mean what whatever.
 And Netflix was supposed to be a differentiator for the Nook but then Amazon came out and
 said that they're getting Netflix too.
 Yeah but lots of people have Netflix.
 I don't think Netflix is a big thing anymore.
 And Netflix streaming is so bad.
 It's the same.
 No.
 The Netflix fragmentation is the worst.
 No but if it was like.
 There's Netflix fragmentation.
 I mean the Android fragmentation of the Netflix app.
 Right so you get well it's the same as Skype.
 But it's the same movies.
 It's the worst though.
 The long and short of it is that you can get Netflix.
 And they play pretty well.
 I have Netflix on my on my television.
 Okay yeah.
 With the one with the Roku in it.
 No no no.
 But the actual television.
 Oh the actual television.
 Netflix is everywhere.
 It's boring now.
 I mean that's like you can get it anywhere.
 I don't think it's if they if they were like we're the only non-Apple tablet to have Netflix
 then you'd be like whoa that's a value.
 I do think they're one of the only ones.
 You can get coffee makers with Netflix.
 Lenovo has it on their.
 It's like this can of Diet Coke.
 It's Netflix.
 I mean admittedly it's only SD but still I just think Netflix is like the only person
 I know who watches Netflix streaming consistently.
 That cannot be true.
 Here's what I want to know.
 How come they couldn't get what kind of very little selection.
 What do you watch.
 Yeah what do you watch.
 He's watching really bad crap.
 You're like 2012.
 You're watching like 2012.
 No no no.
 You know you watch.
 You know how like they have those like Curf movies like Trant.
 Transmorphers.
 Are you serious.
 I'm not.
 I watched a little bit of you actually spent any time in your life watching.
 I was curious.
 Yeah we've all been curious.
 This to me makes me feel bad for you.
 On a whole new level.
 OK why would you why would you spend your precious moment here in collection on there.
 But you're watching the right here in collection.
 I watch it but I like trans more for you know the whole movies.
 I've noticed Netflix always has like one or two like good movies like mixed in.
 They have a lot of good content.
 If you haven't seen you know I'm trying to think of a movie that's on there that you
 haven't maybe haven't seen.
 Yeah it's like if you haven't seen 16 candles.
 Let the right one in.
 You know what you know I just saw in the loop.
 Great British comedy.
 No no no.
 Right now there's some British people like critically critically playing the best mate.
 That was Australia.
 No I'm not doing an accent.
 I'm just saying their words.
 If I was doing an accent you know it.
 But they oh I got that.
 We have to go to the loo.
 So or whatever whatever a British person sounds like.
 But overall hold on your way.
 Is there any.
 Can anybody here.
 Sorry I.
 My wine is gone and I would love something else to drink.
 There are some beers.
 I don't think there's any wine but could somebody grab me something that is.
 Yeah whatever.
 What's that beer if there's no and one for this guy and Neil I would like one as well.
 Thank you.
 I really I really like some.
 What would you like.
 Margarita.
 We have some John Rueb.
 Sangria.
 Yeah.
 We have ready.
 What are you John Rubenstein.
 But we should.
 So we talk about the new color.
 Well hold on.
 What really quickly.
 Yes we know we can.
 If you have a tablet but I'd like to know why.
 Did you talk to anybody about why they didn't feel they could match Amazon's price.
 Yeah they and the same.
 The specs the specs are better.
 They're like we have more memory.
 Yeah.
 I think that's my guess is that this is in production right.
 They were caught on the way.
 Yeah.
 Oh no but I think they would take too big of a hit if they dropped.
 No but I think I think the bigger thing is that this was probably in production and they
 made their own product and they can't afford to lose money on this product whereas Amazon
 repurposed an existing product.
 Let's not forget.
 You know it's just a playbook.
 It's just a playbook.
 I mean they spent money doing the software playbook.
 But yeah I mean last year's model.
 I think it still will appeal to people even if you know the buyer is a big hit.
 I mean they're not going to sell as many because of the reasons you mentioned before.
 Well I mean Amazon.
 Well and also Amazon hadn't existed the last time they were trying to sell a cheap tablet.
 Right right.
 And now Amazon has a cheap tablet and they're selling believe me buyers don't really care
 that it's got a little hook on the side.
 Like they don't.
 You don't put that on your carabiner.
 I do think there's something to a full.
 Touch experience and obviously nook you know Barnes and Noble has already been benefiting
 from this.
 Well there's a slight learning curve to an ink tablet.
 Thank you.
 Who's the red wine for.
 So I went from Pacifico to a glass of red wine.
 That's fine.
 I mean I'll party.
 Do you want to share this.
 I mean you pour some into my.
 Let's also publicly thank him.
 Thank you.
 Thank you.
 Let the world know.
 Thank you so much.
 You leaving.
 No he's going.
 I'm going.
 Good.
 Do you want this.
 This is healthy.
 Anyway I want to you know I want to take a break here for a moment and I want to ask
 the you stream for the people who listen to the podcast.
 You're not going to know.
 But is it do you.
 Does it bother you if we're drinking during the podcast.
 Is it something that is upsetting to you or would you care.
 Do you have an opinion either way.
 I prefer this be a dry podcast.
 It seems.
 Yeah.
 They're drinking as well.
 Some may be insulted says one person.
 Somebody said offended.
 OK.
 Anyhow.
 No color.
 So they drop the price of no color to one and nine.
 But now that's competing with the five.
 I'm sorry but like if that's the if that's the competition I feel you're going to buy
 the fire.
 Right.
 Yeah.
 I don't get it.
 Right.
 Because that's that's where is way better.
 What I was saying is that the ecosystem is better.
 You have a color tablet.
 I think it's very intuitive and if you have that in the store where you're already like
 the tablet where you're already shopping for books I think there's just something to seeing
 on a color screen.
 Oh I can tap an icon of a colorful book and get that book.
 It's just like a real there's a quick through line.
 Yeah.
 To the idea of purchasing a book when it's a color tablet in it.
 I don't know the selling the color they've been selling the no color.
 Yeah but it's slow and it's a little.
 I don't know.
 Well that's what I'm saying.
 Right.
 So it doesn't.
 I think that because Barnes and Noble has brick and mortar bookstores that people are
 there already to buy books they still have that leg up.
 Yeah that's true but not a huge leg up.
 The Kindle fire is going to be in 16000 retailers including Best Buy.
 Right.
 So actually there's more best buys than Barnes and Noble.
 You're more likely to find my mom in a Barnes and Noble than a Best Buy.
 You're more likely still more likely to find my mom in a Barnes and Noble than a Best Buy.
 We go back to the mom.
 This is our old mom debate.
 I gave my mom a Best Buy gift certificate she wouldn't.
 She would not be happy.
 What was our mom argument was about the nook the original.
 You guys made a bet that the soccer moms were really going to go.
 Yeah.
 Well the nooks been a very successful product from what I could tell.
 So this guy the original nook.
 What do you mean this guy.
 I think I was the one who was arguing for the moms.
 You never argue for the moms.
 You're classically anti-nonsense.
 Josh was arguing for the moms and I thought but there was some bold statement about it.
 I don't know.
 There was no like no no no no.
 I don't think so.
 I think it was just that he was going to perform good enough to warrant a second and third
 version.
 Yeah.
 Laura screaming it was me you jerks.
 It was Laura.
 So I don't know.
 I don't even know what's going on in there.
 The Barnes and Noble CEO was like so excited about their stores and for the reason you're
 talking about Paul is like that the moms would come in.
 He didn't say the moms.
 And you know the ladies come in here.
 Yeah.
 Who said this.
 He didn't say the moms.
 He was sleazy about it.
 No he wasn't.
 He made it sound sleazy.
 He was talking up the fact that you know they have these stores then they have in-store
 support.
 So I do agree with your point.
 I'm sorry but that was an HP.
 Can I just say that was an HP argument about the touchpad.
 They're like we've got our touchpad butlers.
 They're going to train you on how to use it and you can.
 We have great retail.
 Yes we have great retail display.
 I don't know if it was in person but they intimated they would have a level of service
 that was just so superior that you would go well it's going to buy that Amazon but who
 knows what's going to happen when I get it.
 You know if I can't figure it out.
 Yeah but that's BS.
 I believe that's marketing.
 I fell for it.
 Yeah but if I was a mom I would definitely.
 Hards and Noble does actually have stands right now for Nook's and there's a dude or
 a dudette behind that stand ready to help you out.
 Trapped.
 Unable to leave.
 A ladybro.
 A ladybro.
 Forced into explaining the features of the Nook tablet to you.
 To your mom.
 To your mother.
 Forced to talk trash about the Kindle Fire.
 I agree with you.
 You think it's a leg up?
 Yeah.
 I think you're there to buy a book and there's books on those devices.
 You know what?
 That happened to my dad.
 He just bought it.
 Here's what's going down.
 You're shopping.
 Books.
 You're in there.
 You're like cha-ching.
 My mother would love.
 It's like that.
 Cha-ching.
 You're there using the free wifi.
 My mother would really love the Nook tablet.
 You know what you have to do.
 You've got to put like.
 I forgot to get her a present last year.
 I didn't get her anything.
 Yeah I think that's what I've heard about your mom a lot.
 For the last two years.
 You talk about what you're going to get her for her birthday or something.
 What?
 Paul's mom.
 Paul talks about his mom.
 Way to weird out the whole podcast.
 I really appreciate that.
 I just want to talk to Paul about his mom.
 This isn't about my mom.
 I think it is.
 I think it is Paul.
 A metaphorical mother.
 I want to talk about your mom.
 Is it?
 Look your mother represents America.
 All right let's move on.
 This is.
 We've got to keep going.
 She's very patriotic.
 We've got to.
 Are we talking about the Simple Touch?
 No.
 What's it say?
 We updated it.
 It's fast page turns right Paul?
 Very fast.
 Yeah.
 All right let's talk about.
 Very fast.
 Let's talk about the laptop that you're using right now.
 Let's talk about how the battery died and I've been pretending to use it.
 Are you kidding me?
 Seriously?
 That's real sad.
 Wow.
 No I haven't.
 I've been watching yours.
 Yeah.
 But it has died.
 It died.
 It's in its box.
 So you're using the Lenovo U300 right now.
 You just put up your review.
 Well let's pick it up.
 It looks really awesome.
 It's an awesome looking laptop.
 It is an amazing looking laptop.
 But can I just say like I think this is so such an awesome and dare I say sexy laptop.
 No it's amazing.
 You did tweet sexy and I was.
 It is really it is really handsome.
 Like I think this is better.
 And it's seasonal.
 Can I just say something?
 I think this is way better looking than the MacBook Air or the Pro or whatever.
 I think it's just much more attractive.
 I think actually.
 Can I hold it?
 Do you mind?
 I can.
 I can also say that I'm not.
 I can also say that I'm not.
 I don't like the fingerprints on the lid.
 Yeah the fingerprints are annoying.
 And that is disturbing.
 Is it?
 Super disturbing.
 Why?
 All I do is shove it in.
 I actually made it so the windows wouldn't boot up so Josh wouldn't complain about windows.
 Well I was just going to say.
 I was thinking about you.
 Well you were talking about how bad the trackpad was.
 It's not terrible.
 I've seen worse.
 But it's not as good.
 It's not.
 How much is this?
 That one is twelve hundred dollars.
 So it's as much as the Air.
 That's the big problem.
 So it's one hundred dollars less than the Air.
 Look it's one hundred dollars less than the Air.
 It feels way heavier.
 How much does this weigh?
 I think it's like a point three pounds.
 It feels way heavier to me.
 Heavier?
 Yeah hold on let me just.
 The new one I'm reviewing.
 Oh yeah.
 It's totally scientific.
 Oh no.
 What's the.
 Can we.
 You should pull up a comparison.
 It is.
 It's in the review.
 Why don't you get a comparison of the thirteen inch new Air and this guy.
 This feels to me a lot heavier.
 But also.
 Have Billy switch to me and do this live.
 It also feels really nice though.
 It feels really.
 There's some stuff moving around here.
 When you open it there's some stuff moving around.
 Yeah but.
 So if I'm going to pay the same amount for that I would pay for this.
 The trackpad should have the same level of responsiveness and multi touch and everything
 else that I.
 But it doesn't right.
 No no Windows laptop has the same sort of.
 What is going on with trackpads.
 How come they can't solve.
 It's a big problem.
 How come they can't solve trackpads on PCs.
 I'll tell you the base of the problem.
 It goes really deep.
 I spent hours on the phone with some app kids.
 Hold on here we go.
 We're using our comparison tool.
 This is interesting.
 Uh oh.
 This one says it's point zero six pounds.
 Whoa it's not possible.
 Yes.
 It looks like.
 Are you on the database guys.
 Yeah what's going on over there.
 Are you sure.
 This is what they report.
 I thought it was this one was.
 That's not possible.
 Point zero six.
 Yeah of course I'm not holding this closed so.
 I don't see a total.
 It feels a lot heavier.
 Are you sure.
 Let me decide.
 I don't have a.
 This is the worst.
 So scientific.
 I know it is.
 It's balanced differently.
 I need a scale.
 You can feel the battery.
 Are you pulling a Sony.
 You're pulling a Sony tablet.
 The touchpad we're viewing now is really light.
 There's more battery over here.
 It could be my bias.
 My natural bias towards Apple products.
 You can actually feel the.
 Joanne I would actually love for you to describe the touchpad problem because this is.
 So the touchpad problem is.
 This is really after spending the last year constantly being called by Synaptics after
 these reviews go up because I'm like always complaining about the touchpad.
 It really has to do with sort of the software and because Synaptics is now running their
 software on top of Windows so the integration isn't as tight as obviously we have on the
 air but also the hardware is the problem.
 These don't have the same sort of sensors.
 Yeah.
 So the problem is the hardware and the software.
 So.
 Aside from those.
 Something's bad and it's the only two things that could be bad.
 It's a bad sign.
 Right.
 But primarily it is the software.
 It's not like your fingers are messed up.
 Does Apple have a proprietary technology that's like patented or.
 Yeah.
 They can't figure it out.
 I think they do.
 I think this whole situation with Apple's.
 I think I think I think.
 I think.
 I feel like Synaptics is trying to find a workaround to be able to do the same thing.
 Yeah I think this is why the touch the touch response is so good on the on the IOS devices
 is that they're using the same or similar technology and it's really good.
 I mean it is one of those things actually somebody did a post in our forums about the
 scrolling.
 Yeah.
 And they were talking about how bad it is on.
 I mean this is not maybe related but it is all along the same lines.
 On tablets right.
 And it's one of those things that's and we've talked about this before.
 Well on all of Android.
 All of Android.
 On all of Android.
 We've talked about this before where it's one of those things that's very minor but
 extremely important.
 And that's one of my.
 It changes the whole experience.
 And that's one of my tests.
 You know the thing where I'm when I look at a new phone I start scrolling back and forth
 on the icons.
 Yeah.
 It's all about like how's the touch response.
 How is the scrolling.
 Is it smooth.
 Is it smooth.
 And like that's when I'm that's your main way of interacting with a laptop.
 I mean I'm used and more and more like I've actually been abandoning my mouse a little
 bit moving more and more to the trackpad.
 And that's a big deal.
 I know.
 And the more I do it the more I'm like you know you're reliant on that trackpad.
 It's got to be good.
 And you buy this and you can't.
 You can't.
 You can't.
 The Asus was terrible.
 Hands down the worst touchpad I've ever used.
 And you can't swap it out.
 You know it's like you've only got a few options.
 You've got to get an external mouse if you want to deal with it.
 Which is why did I buy a laptop.
 You know on the scale I gave this like a six on the touchpad.
 It wasn't it's not the worst.
 It works fine.
 Now but the Asus is terrible.
 I mean literally what's the best Windows trackpad you've used.
 Yeah best one ever.
 A normal trackpad.
 What does that mean.
 Just like you know a regular touchpad with two buttons.
 No multi touch.
 No that.
 With maybe those scrolls.
 You're saying hardware buttons alleviate the problem.
 Yeah.
 And actually HP in response not only to my reviews but they have taken my reviews very
 seriously.
 The first generation of the Envy they and some of the pavilions they went back to using
 traditional touchpads.
 I like hardware buttons.
 I don't know.
 I wouldn't complain.
 I don't think this is the best possible situation though I do actually tap to click so I hardly
 ever.
 I tried to use your computer yesterday.
 You would want to have multi touch gestures.
 You know what the saddest people but if you try to use somebody else's computer it's like
 you suddenly have no idea how to use a computer anymore.
 And I tried to use yours while I was like sitting at your desk on a phone call like
 look something up.
 Yeah.
 And it was insane.
 I don't even know what's happening.
 What was happening?
 What was happening?
 You've got your mouse acceleration like cranked up all the way.
 You've got tap to click turned on.
 Yeah.
 Like when you actually push a button like things launch.
 It's like completely bonkers.
 I have it extremely like everybody says this wherever they ever touch my computer and no
 matter what as soon as someone touches it they do one of my like corner moves which
 gets all the way.
 Everything is insane.
 They do this.
 They do this.
 What did I just do?
 How do I get this back?
 But I'm on the move.
 I got to keep going.
 I got to move.
 I don't have time to wait for the cursor to move.
 No but I look at other people's computers and they're so slow.
 Like yours is like.
 I might as well.
 Yeah.
 Precise.
 It's really like I'm like using multiple fingers to get the cursor down.
 I'm like get it over to this side of the screen let me get it down here.
 I'm like using whole hand gestures.
 So Joanna would you.
 This is really it's like a very interesting situation because I really do think that the
 touchpad why you need it.
 Oh you're charging.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 It's powered up now.
 Would you say is a really big deal breaker for some of these.
 Should they abandon multi touch.
 I mean in the meantime while they're still figuring this out and synaptics just reached
 out to me to talk about what's coming in Windows 8 because they've started to talk
 about what's coming.
 They've finally cracked it.
 And they're going to be working.
 You know I think the major problem here has been that Microsoft hasn't been using their
 drive like Microsoft hasn't been integrating their drivers at the system level right.
 So actually the Microsoft touch mouse which I had in works really well.
 Oh really.
 Extremely well.
 And there's actually like an expose sort of setting where like if you do four fingers
 up it will do like all the windows and that sort of thing.
 They did the drivers there right.
 They didn't use synaptics drivers.
 They didn't use a long text.
 They integrated hardware and software.
 They did it.
 And yeah exactly.
 So that's the missing piece and I think that will hopefully come in Windows 8 but I don't
 know.
 That just seems weird to me just because I mean isn't the whole point of being able to
 create software drivers for hardware is that it is integrated.
 I mean maybe I just maybe I'm not smart maybe I don't understand how this works.
 Is there a deeper kernel level where you have to integrate.
 Well I actually I do believe that.
 Well I'm actually a hardware driver.
 I was just working on a new hardware driver.
 No but I actually think that one of the advantages with the Mac is that there are there are deeper
 integration.
 I mean but absolutely.
 Apple builds a software driver for its touchpad that runs in Windows.
 I don't think they.
 Oh that's true.
 And it's pretty good.
 They have better hardware.
 That's actually another point.
 They have better laptop touchpad.
 So that's just what.
 The best Windows trackpad is still the Mac.
 Right.
 And so it works so well.
 So let me ask you a question.
 Why can't Synapse.
 So if that's a hundred dollars that's a hundred dollars less than this right.
 Yeah but you're losing a lot of stuff.
 I mean I was kind of the last point of the review.
 That's the last point of the review which is that you don't get an SD card slot which
 is a big deal and the screen resolution is low.
 And there's no backlit keyboard.
 Okay so hold on.
 So hold on.
 So I just want to be clear.
 This is this is their.
 I type at night a lot.
 This is their.
 I don't know what you do.
 I hear my album typing at night.
 It's a collaboration with Rupert Holmes.
 You know what maybe I should go.
 Maybe Paul and I should go.
 You guys can just do the podcast.
 That sounds like a good idea.
 Get out.
 Podcasting.
 Just kidding.
 I'm not going anywhere ever ever in Eli.
 So this is this is considered an Ultrabook.
 This is an Ultrabook.
 It has a Core i7.
 Core i5.
 Core i5 clocked at what?
 1.8.
 Okay.
 And it.
 1.6.
 How much memory?
 You've got the 1.8.
 This is 4.
 4 gigs.
 Yeah.
 This is actually this one is Core i7.
 The other one is the Taiwan.
 So you have the how much is this one?
 Four gigs of memory.
 This one.
 What did I say?
 1400 I believe.
 Okay.
 Well, because there's a there's the base model is 1200.
 Well, I want to.
 Yeah.
 So I just want to get some things clear because I want to compare some some items.
 So this is a Core i7.
 I've got the most specced out highest specced model clocked to 1.8.
 Right.
 Isn't that the highest specced model of the air?
 Yeah.
 Okay.
 That's 1400.
 Oh, so that's not this is like, this is the high end to low end.
 But yeah, but wouldn't it just be make more sense to get one of these and put Windows
 on and put boot camp on input Windows on it.
 I got to pay for Windows.
 So you'll end up but whatever.
 Yeah, but then but you have to have the computer for years.
 Right.
 So why buy something that's going to be a crappy crappier experience?
 I mean, correctly from wrong.
 I mean, this is basically the thread of every single one of your ultrabooks.
 Yes, every single one that is it's everyone screams at me for comparing it to the air.
 Well, but why you can run Windows on the air, right?
 That's what I always say.
 I'm not I'm not trying to knock Lenovo.
 I really like this hardware.
 But no, it seems to me if you're getting a crappier experience and spending about the
 same amount of money.
 Okay, so the starting price is $1200.
 Okay.
 This one rings up at $1500.
 Okay.
 I don't know what and what's the spec of that?
 This is I seven I seven clocked at one point eight four gigs of RAM.
 How much storage 128?
 Oh, really?
 Yeah.
 And it's 1500.
 Actually, wait, this one's 256.
 That's good.
 So it's cheaper.
 It's cheaper.
 You don't get SD, no backlit keyboard, lower resolution screen.
 Right.
 And the trackpad sucks.
 Right.
 To me, lower resolution screen and trackpad is bad are like way more important than almost
 anything else that you mentioned.
 Right.
 I mean, those are like the two things that you have to interact with the most.
 This is terrible, though.
 That's what I'm gonna say.
 I mean, that is definitely the best.
 But if you fanboy, it's not terrible.
 You terrible fanboy.
 All right.
 Let's move on.
 Yeah, I mean, we're gonna go now.
 You hang out.
 What are you talking about?
 She has a half an hour.
 I'm talking about this thing.
 I'm just gonna randomly.
 You know, because I'm not gonna be able to do this.
 I'm not gonna be able to do this.
 I'm not gonna be able to do this.
 I'm not gonna be able to do this.
 I'm not gonna be able to do this.
 She's just gonna randomly.
 You know what would be great as a snack?
 We should have snacks on this.
 We should.
 You know, we talk about this guy.
 And actually, this work, this is a good segue because when we're talking about like the
 two things that are most important, being the screen and the touch response, The Razr
 is a really good example of like really awesome hardware that's completely like kind of ruined
 for me by the screen.
 Hey, look at that.
 Take this, take this thing away from me.
 Wow.
 That's dedication.
 I don't want this anymore.
 Thank you.
 Thank you, Kim.
 Take this great piece away.
 Thank you. Yeah, starting to regret not having the red wine.
 You want that one back? We like drink from it.
 I would have definitely had the Piscinelli. Go on, go on.
 So we reviewed the razor this week.
 Motorola and Verizon were very kind to me.
 They gave it to me with one day to review, which is always nice.
 Verizon likes to...
 They really like to be there with the bionic too, right?
 They don't want you to spend too much time with the phone.
 Actually, it's Motorola. You think it's Moto?
 No, I don't think so. It is.
 Verizon never has embargoes.
 It's Motorola. Interesting.
 Well, that seems worse.
 Remember the Atrix?
 Remember the Atrix.
 Remember when they gave you 24 hours to do the Atrix?
 The bionic was the same deal.
 The Atrix with the laptop and the HD dock and the regular dock.
 And you put up, like, I remember a stub post.
 You were just like, we're going to spend our time with this, but this is the embargo.
 This is Motorola for sure.
 If you're listening, Motorola, it's really terrible what you do.
 Well, soon they'll be controlled by Google and it won't matter.
 You know, I feel like... It's true.
 You know, I feel like there's a lot of similarities to the Atrix too.
 Because I remember how excited you were for the Atrix.
 Yeah. I had way less excitement about this phone.
 And when I went to the Razr event, I came back and I was like,
 I'm really excited for the Razr after holding it and looking at it just at the event.
 I was like, it's beautiful, it's thin.
 You were gushing about it, which I thought was weird because I had zero excitement.
 And you thought it was really ugly.
 I knew I hate everything.
 I do think it's an ugly phone. Fundamentally ugly.
 So I got it. You know, it's enormous.
 That's the thing about it that I think is really crazy.
 I think all phones are ugly.
 I mean, I don't think the Nexus, the Galaxy Nexus is a very good looking phone.
 I mean, it is what it is. It's a black phone.
 It's ugly.
 Can I tell you that the Galaxy Nexus holding in your hand is way more comfortable than this thing?
 Well, it's enormous.
 I mean, I have like big hands.
 Do you have normal size hands?
 I have girl hands. She doesn't.
 You have lady hands. This is so uncomfortable.
 It is really uncomfortable. It's like wide.
 It's big and there's actually...
 Yeah, and these edges. It's these edges in my...
 This hurts. This is hurting me.
 Some of you Motorola should be sent to prison for that.
 I'm going to see to it.
 I will say it's remarkable that they built an LTE phone that is thin.
 It's the thinnest phone on the market.
 Nobody else has managed to do that.
 Did this go through testing?
 Except for that huge bump on the one part.
 I mean, it's smaller than the bump on the Droid X and the bump on the Bionic.
 If these should have better edges.
 I don't mind the Motorola bump. It doesn't bother me.
 I'm just saying it's remarkable they build this thing that nobody else can build.
 But the screen, I think the screen is terrible.
 You know, it's a pentile display.
 It doesn't have white pixels.
 It only has the pentile arrangement of green, blue and red.
 So it has kind of more green pixels.
 A lot of fuss about this pentile stuff.
 I don't like it.
 What is stopping everybody from making a retinal display, quality display?
 That is definitely not it.
 They said they went for pentile because of the thinness, right?
 Right. Well, they said they went for AMOLED because of the thinness.
 So it's also battery considerations.
 It strikes me that Android just simply isn't, they're not good enough at doing battery management.
 You really can see it.
 Keep in mind, it's also QHD.
 Right. So I think that's what advanced means.
 So at the event, this is 4.3 QHD, which is what they've done on a lot of other devices.
 Well, think about the Galaxy Nexus as 4.65 at 720.
 Pretty big bump in pixels.
 So this is like a big question now.
 Because that's pentile too.
 It's a huge bump in pixels.
 But I don't know if it's a huge bump in density because of the size of the display.
 It is a dump bump in density.
 It's a dump in density.
 It's a dump in density.
 No, but it is a bump.
 Let's find out.
 I don't know. I thought it looked good when I saw it.
 I thought it looked really good.
 But you used a Nexus S, which has a pentile display.
 The Nexus S is a nightmare beyond description.
 No, I mean the display is not going to ruin this phone.
 The feel of it is going to ruin this phone.
 I mean it's as big as...
 Do you have anything else to say about it?
 It's as big as the S2.
 It's just like the Bionic, right?
 Yeah, I mean it's the Bionic.
 No, the skin I think is crazier actually.
 I think the Bionic skin is one step down.
 I don't get it. I don't get the craziness.
 So I will say this.
 The Nexus S has a DPI of 315.
 And this one is like 265.
 So it's a big bump in pixel density.
 The Galaxy Nexus has 315.
 And this is 265.
 A huge difference.
 315 is close to the retina display.
 It's 322.
 It's 326.
 It's 10 pixels off.
 So you're dealing with...
 So there's a chance it's going to be great.
 I thought it looked good.
 I think that the color reproduction is a question.
 I know you think that your Nexus S display is kind of greenish.
 It's an awful display.
 I wouldn't wish it was worse than that.
 But I'm saying it's the same display as this, fundamentally.
 I mean it's a little lower resolution.
 It's a little bit more of a VGA.
 I just think like...
 I don't have to look at Moto Blur on the display.
 That's actually what I said in the review.
 It's a bad display that looks worse because of Moto Blur.
 Or whatever they're calling it.
 I'm just tired of aggressive phones that are attacking me.
 The commercials for this thing are out of control.
 The angles on the corners...
 The same with their new tablets.
 The new Zooms.
 I'm wearing the watch.
 Are really aggressive and scary.
 They are.
 And Verizon is like this aggressive, angry, macho, Kevlar shotgun.
 Have you seen the one with the motorcycle that breaks into the van?
 This is like the best one.
 I think it was released today.
 Did you say the motorcycle that breaks into the van?
 I want to show it to our viewers.
 I'm wearing the watch.
 Is this helpful when you see it like this?
 By the way, this watch is...
 We should just do the podcast where we just hold up gadgets like,
 draw your own conclusions.
 Is it helpful when I cut Neil's neck?
 You could. You could slice a jugular with that.
 Have you seen the ad?
 The ad is like...
 It's a nice little short film that has nothing to do with the product.
 That's me stabbing you and then ripping up in your chest cavity.
 One of our readers wrote a great sort of forum post on the ad.
 Somebody liked that.
 Kim, I'm worried about you.
 Death of a lamp post. I know what you're talking about.
 It's one of the best posts that we have.
 It's the best thing I've ever read.
 I've actually seen it. What's crazy about that post is I keep seeing it.
 People are tweeting it.
 I'm like, oh, what's this?
 And then I realize it's not somebody who has been employed yet.
 Not been employed yet.
 It's a great...
 It would be a great name for like a...
 A version of Narnia with zombies.
 Death of a lamp post.
 What if I did this and all of a sudden my beard...
 I'd be shocking.
 One last thing to say about this phone.
 Is the thing that's awesome about it is quick actions.
 Quick actions are cool.
 Somebody should steal that idea and put it in a phone that I want.
 I mean, Paul and I...
 There's like three or four Android apps already available.
 Yeah, but none of them...
 I've played with them a little bit.
 None of them are as good or as integrated as quick actions.
 By the way, Paul, people aren't hitting on you in the Ustream.
 Oh, really?
 While we're having this conversation.
 Get in there, Paul.
 They're like offering you hugs and telling you how cute you are.
 So for the podcast listeners...
 You look a little too dark, though. Go on.
 Podcast listeners, you don't know.
 And you can set them up to do all kinds of crazy...
 On Sunday night, we had it so that every time I unplugged the headphones,
 I sent Paul a text message that said,
 I've unplugged my headphones.
 Which you probably don't want to do, but it's that level of flexibility.
 That's cool.
 I'm sorry, I'm distracted.
 Apparently my shirt is...
 Sorry, are you not seeing the 3D pattern that my shirt is projecting?
 Yeah.
 Go on.
 Remember those pictures that were hot?
 Really hot? What are they called?
 I've been looking for a boat in your shirt.
 I saw them in a kiosk in the middle of the mall.
 Yeah, and you cross your eyes.
 It's like an orca whale.
 This is one of the dumbest things that humans have ever come out with.
 You see a 3D image appear in this...
 Magic eye.
 In this sea of garbage.
 It looks like a sea of crap, but if you cross your eyes...
 Have you guys never seen Mallrats?
 Yeah, it's a schooner, not a sailboat.
 It's a schooner.
 It's finely seasoned at the end.
 It's a schooner.
 I have no idea what you're talking about.
 Have you ever seen Mallrats?
 I've seen trans morphers. You don't need to see Mallrats.
 That might be on Netflix.
 Sometimes I ride my bike places. I do a lot of things with my phone.
 I just don't even know how you spend your time, man.
 I'm giving you a list.
 Starcraft?
 By the way, I think, Joanna, people are accusing you of stealing the answer about Magic Eye from the Ustream.
 Did that happen?
 No, I swear to God.
 Don't lie to me.
 I referenced it earlier in the day.
 You did?
 I'm going to tell you a story about what happened in our chat room.
 God, if only we had some music to go with this.
 I kept seeing these slashes with the circle.
 Like an emoticon.
 No, high fives.
 But I had no idea what that was.
 And I kept saying, I don't see it.
 By the way, the circle is the letter O.
 Can you put one in to use...
 Oh, that's a high five?
 And I kept seeing in our chat room...
 I thought that was like this.
 Me too.
 What's this?
 This one is like, I don't know, I give up.
 But it's not the goat.
 That's not the goat.
 But an O with one slash is like an invitation to high five.
 Yeah, and so then you do it backwards.
 Oh yeah, that makes sense.
 And I didn't know what it was.
 And everyone kept saying it's a high five.
 I said, I don't see it.
 I was literally staring at the screen.
 I got it. I got the goat now.
 And I was like, this is like a Magic Eye.
 And that was the story.
 A Magic Guy?
 What were we talking about? The Razor? Whatever.
 Oh, quick actions.
 Oh, quick actions.
 I've been calling them quick actions.
 They're actually smart actions.
 Quick actions are from WebOS, right?
 I can set one up right this second.
 I set one up where like every time you unplug your headphones...
 We were there.
 You were checking your email, buddy. We talked about it.
 Yeah, but the people in the podcast haven't heard about it.
 No, I said it on the podcast.
 I wasn't listening.
 I know. No one ever listens.
 No one ever sends Paul a text message.
 What does it say?
 It says I've unplugged my headphones.
 That's awesome. But why?
 It says, Neal Eye's unplugged.
 What's the problem?
 Oh, I can do it over here.
 We're all going to do this together.
 Camera operator.
 I need some headphones, guys.
 You're wearing them.
 Oh, you need another pair.
 Interns bringing it into action.
 We got them. Here we go.
 Thank you.
 So, unplugged.
 Are we talking about WebAway last text?
 Yeah. I'm going to definitely leave before that.
 No, you're not. You're not going anywhere.
 I am.
 I'm going to turn this away so I can select Paul Miller's phone number.
 Paul, is that your number?
 Which one? Which one should I pick?
 Don't use any of those numbers.
 Was his number just done?
 Don't say 509. Now they know part of the number.
 It's just a few more steps and they're going to call you.
 And be like, hey, I saw your hair.
 What's going on? Did you turn evil?
 There's a lot of debate about my hair, by the way, today.
 Really?
 All right. So now this thing is set up.
 So, can you see this, Chad?
 So, when I plug in the headphones, it's set up to launch audio.
 There's some hilarious stuff going on.
 And then when I unplug the headphones,
 Paul is going to get a text message.
 Can you see that?
 Which is really, really foolish, but really awesome as well.
 Is that working?
 I saw it pop up the...
 Yeah, there it goes. Paul just got a text message.
 Can you show that to the viewer?
 Yeah.
 I mean, it's foolish.
 Oh, because it's not iMessage.
 Oh.
 Well, you can show the number. It's not ours.
 Dude, no headphones.
 That's what it says?
 It's my new party message.
 So, the practical usage...
 Now that there's notifications on the phone,
 it's so hard to open up the phone
 without revealing everything about my personal life.
 Yeah, you can send an email.
 I've got a calendar item for lunch.
 People know that I eat lunch.
 So, here's the thing about the email client.
 All the Smart Action stuff isn't integrated with Gmail.
 It's integrated with Motorola's janky proprietary email thing,
 which is dumb.
 Oh, are you serious?
 See, I would have it set up that if my battery was dying,
 it would email me.
 And actually, the mail icon that they put on the front screen
 is not Gmail.
 It's Motorola email.
 Yeah, they want you to tap into their ecosystem.
 It's one more part of the skin that's super overwrought.
 But you're asking what it would be useful for?
 Yes.
 It knows where you are.
 So, when you go home, it knows that you're home.
 It can turn off Bluetooth because you probably won't use Bluetooth at home.
 It can turn the display down.
 It's like Siri with no voice.
 Yeah, but you have to do it all manually.
 And no information.
 So, automatic usefulness.
 Yeah, it knows, like, you come to work, turn my ringer off.
 I guess, no, see, that would be great.
 Siri doesn't do those things for you.
 It does do X, Y, and Z.
 That's nice.
 Everything.
 Every function on the phone can be manipulated.
 Every system function.
 If there's one thing that Google boosts after they get a hold of Motorola,
 they should pull that in.
 Because that's actually, you can advertise that as a thing that is cool that the iPhone does not do.
 Wait, wait.
 Why would you want to advertise features of your phone?
 Yeah, exactly.
 Why not just advertise the mood of your phone?
 Yeah, like the vibe of a robot.
 But that is the weird thing.
 Apple specifically advertises features.
 They're like, here, it does this thing.
 Isn't that cool?
 That's what this guy said in the thing.
 That's what I said in my rhyme editorial.
 They should just listen to us.
 So, by the way, all the people in the Ustream who are saying Tasker and Locale do these things,
 they do them, but they're not as integrated.
 And they're definitely not as smooth.
 Tasker is an Android app?
 Yeah.
 You can play with it, and people should go check them out.
 But, A, they're not free on the phone that you buy.
 And they're definitely not as integrated and not as smooth.
 I'm going to check out Tasker.
 Tasker is great.
 Everybody should go try it out.
 I'm going to check out Tasker on my next assess.
 I think Locale is the other one that's really good.
 What's the best one, Tasker or Locale?
 They're all saying Tasker.
 They are all saying Tasker.
 Except for those guys who have Tasker socks.
 Yeah, exactly.
 Tasker is for losers.
 People who are into baggy clothing.
 He's a loser. You know him. Always wearing Jankos.
 All right.
 I don't want to have to do calculus to figure out how to get my phone to power down at Bluetooth when I get home.
 Yeah, this is like you push a button, it turns it off.
 I'm going to do a quick Google search right now for Tasker.
 Are you leaving, Stern?
 Well, enjoy dinner.
 You know, I have to be home early to be lonely.
 Wow.
 That was sarcasm, wasn't it?
 It's got a great website.
 Yeah, that's an awful website.
 That's not the right website, is it?
 I can roll because I won't be here later.
 Really? You preemptively Sternburn me?
 That's terrible.
 Was that a Sternburn? Because people were asking for it earlier.
 I think I found the right website.
 Wow, this one's even worse.
 What are we doing? I'm just moving over.
 Okay. What's happening?
 Wait, wait, wait. There's going to be a whole chair between us?
 Yeah, I know. We're going to be really far apart.
 I thought you said there's going to be a whole between you.
 What if you move that chair out?
 No, I'm just going to keep this chat and this microphone going high.
 I think I'm going to be TV close.
 You want me to be closer?
 Yeah, so just pop that chair out.
 You really screwed up. What you need to do is get rid of that chair and just kind of get more centered.
 That's what I'm saying.
 You don't need to be 100,000 feet away.
 I would like to be 100,000 feet away.
 Chad, what is the farthest away I can get?
 I wish you guys could see Chad right now. He looks very frustrated.
 I think Chad's sick. Chad, are you sick, buddy?
 He's sick of our BS.
 All right, next topic.
 Yeah.
 What is our next topic?
 It's WebOS.
 No, no, it's Paul.
 I'm so excited about WebOS that I just want to go right to it.
 You did a bunch of work this week.
 If you guys haven't seen this, can somebody drop the link into our chat room?
 Paul did a feature on robotics, on robots and robotics.
 It was kind of about Dennis Hong, who is what is his official title?
 He's a professor of mechanical engineering, and he runs the Romalaw lab at Virginia Tech.
 Basically like mad scientist robot guy at Virginia Tech.
 You went down there, you did a bunch of video stuff.
 You wrote this gigantic feature that was extremely awesome and also huge.
 Huge, as some people might call it.
 It's an incredible video with tons of awesome pictures.
 What would you say was the gist of your piece?
 For people who maybe haven't read the 5,000, you should read the whole thing.
 Take the time, sit down, take a break from work, take a break from all your worries,
 and read Paul's piece because it's super interesting.
 Did anybody drop it into the chat room yet?
 Somebody should, I'm sure somebody will, Laura or somebody.
 Give us the outline, the broad strokes.
 The basic thing that I discovered, I've been really interested in robotics for a long time.
 I love robotics.
 Paul is our resident robotics expert.
 It's hard to be, I don't know a lot about robotics because it's a very wide field.
 When you get down to the nitty-gritty, there's a wide range of disciplines of electronic engineering,
 computer science, mechanical engineering, and each of those is vast and deep.
 Robotics is really, really hard.
 It's really difficult.
 You didn't think it was just like start pushing things together, they become ambulatory?
 Dude, I built like 50 robots when I was a kid.
 I don't know.
 I read things in the past about what robotics need to be doing to gain consumer adoption, and I stand by them.
 It's just that those things are really hard to achieve.
 Being able to spend a lot of time interviewing people in the robotics community,
 visiting this lab, and going really in depth on a specific robot that they're building called Sapphire,
 I try to expose the actual depth of the problem.
 I still have to cut out a lot of stuff because there's just so much that goes into building a robot.
 Is your idea about robots, has it changed from getting this deeper look?
 I still love robots.
 What is it you love about robots? Can you tell me?
 I don't know.
 Can we try to explore it?
 I think there's a dream in my mind of me asking a robot to go get something out of the kitchen.
 That's the thing?
 It's a basic laziness.
 You want a butler.
 Yeah.
 A human will do that for you too, for money.
 You don't have to have a robot do it.
 Yeah, but it would be cooler if a robot does it.
 Do you feel like there would be less guilt associated with it?
 I think if you look at all the things that we have our existing electronic devices do,
 it's about saving time, increasing convenience.
 I was going to say there's a bunch of transmorphers in there.
 They're like transmorphed just randomly.
 Is transmorphers about robots, by the way?
 Yeah.
 Really badly rendered.
 I was going to say, we didn't have the time or the servers to really do the right job on this.
 Anyhow, go on.
 All the things that we use our smartphones for and our laptops for and our microwaves for,
 a lot of this stuff is just to make things more convenient and faster.
 You see a robot that will take calls from you and also have a stomach piece where you can put a sandwich into to get it heated up.
 I just think robots aren't that interesting to the tech industry right now,
 but I think five to ten years, it's going to be the smartphone or the tablet.
 How long do you think? Is it five years?
 It's closer to ten years.
 I think there will be a landmark product in about five years that will start entering our homes.
 Do you think Apple will create it?
 No.
 Who is it going to be?
 It's going to be iRobot.
 Wait, let me ask you this question.
 One thing I got from Hong and from you is that there are so many different things that are tied into robots and making robots go.
 Do you think this breakthrough product will be like an ambulatory robot that can go to your fridge?
 I look at Siri and I look at the Roomba and I'm like, these are robots.
 They're just different kinds of robots.
 They're also in similar stages.
 Siri is to voice recognition what the Roomba is to a robot that helps you around the house.
 Maybe Siri is a little more advanced.
 It's obviously going to be a combination of some of those things.
 So iRobot is building a robot called Ava, which I really think is going to be the one once they get it all figured out that can kind of map out your –
 This one is the creepiest.
 The big dog.
 The big dog is the creepiest robot.
 The big dog is.
 So awesome.
 Well, that's like the thing we saw, we reported on way, way back in the day at Engadget, which was that hover thing that just had a bunch of guns on it.
 Oh, no, no.
 The big dog is the one that has four –
 No, no, I know.
 I understand that.
 I'm saying the big dog is terrifying to watch.
 There are certain robots that are terrifying.
 There's a robot – I can't think of the name of it.
 It's a very – it looks like – what's the name of this robot?
 I just have the –
 Petman?
 Yes.
 Pipman.
 Oh, Pipman.
 Right.
 Pipman is terrifying.
 Right.
 Pipman is like – he's a Terminator.
 Yeah.
 I mean, you can see how somebody might take control of Pipman and use him to attack you and kill you.
 And I think Pipman is probably in some sense the most advanced robot right now.
 The problem is that it uses an external power supply.
 How mad is Hong about Pipman?
 Do you think?
 Seriously.
 I have no idea.
 I mean, he references the stuff that they're doing.
 He referenced big dog in my interviews with him.
 So the problem with CMU is that they're doing stuff for the military and they basically won't show it to anybody.
 They show these YouTube videos every once in a while to show how awesome they are, but they don't really get in depth.
 It's not going to be IRO.
 They're not sharing their knowledge.
 And what's going to happen is they're going to come up with a robot soldier.
 Right.
 And then it's game over.
 And that's the problem with IRO.
 That's what they need to do because then it's like nuclear weapons can be completely decommissioned.
 No.
 Yeah.
 How does that connect to the nuclear?
 You just put them on the robot soldiers.
 Because once you have a robot soldier, you can do anything you want.
 Yeah.
 This is basically the part of the understanding.
 Have you seen Terminator?
 Have you ever played Metal Gear?
 I played the original PlayStation.
 And have you understood one element of anything that's going on in a Metal Gear game?
 Because that is the future of robot soldiers.
 I don't know.
 What's the latest in Metal Gear?
 What did they do?
 Well, it's four, right?
 Guns of the Patriots.
 Yeah.
 What happens?
 I don't know.
 I played it for like 75 hours.
 I have no idea what happened.
 What did you say?
 How is that the future then?
 I don't know.
 That was my experience with Metal Gear.
 I was like, I don't know what's happening.
 No.
 It was awesome.
 But the robot in the original Metal Gear is a nuclear weapon.
 Metal Gear.
 Metal Gear is a nuclear weapon.
 Yeah.
 I get that.
 But then in four, by the time you get to solid four.
 Okay.
 Fine.
 It's a patriotic.
 You can't decommission nuclear weapons.
 But suddenly your army gets way more badass if you have robot soldiers.
 Yeah.
 No, there's no doubt.
 You're like, oh, you guys are sending humans to the battlefield?
 Well, we've got a bunch of robots that have no mercy and they have no sense of who you
 are, what you're doing and just want to kill you.
 The problem with that, there will be advances there that will trickle down, but typically
 military technology takes like a decade or two to trickle down.
 I mean, have you ever seen the movie Hardware?
 No.
 Hardware is one of my favorite.
 You've never seen the movie Robot Jocks?
 Yes.
 Hardware is one of my favorite sci-fi movies.
 It features a cameo from Lemmy from Motorhead, who I was in a bar with in LA.
 Not like with him, but I was in a bar with him.
 He was at the bar.
 Can I just say something just totally off topic?
 We're getting really deep here.
 I was in LA and Lemmy from Motorhead was in a bar that I was in and he was playing like
 video trivia at the bar.
 It was the craziest thing.
 If you know who Lemmy from Motorhead is, it's one of the most bizarre things and I was pretty
 stunned.
 Anyhow, but Hardware is a movie where it's like a robot that was used by the military,
 a killing machine.
 Like Johnny Five.
 It's brought home as an art project and puts itself back together and goes on a kill crazy
 rampage.
 That sounds awesome.
 It is awesome.
 There's also like an X-rated sex scene in it that they edited for the US version.
 Oh, weird.
 With the robot or without the robot?
 The robot's not involved, but it's pretty sexy.
 That's basically the opposite of the Short Circuit movie.
 It really is.
 It's like having parties.
 The opposite of the Short Circuit is like, it's a nice robot, zero sex scenes.
 This is like horrible robot, tons of sex scenes and Lemmy from Motorhead and everybody's
 poor.
 Wow.
 Literally the opposite.
 Yeah.
 Anyhow, we're way off topic.
 Let me wrap up how we, however we got to this.
 One, military robots are going to be the most advanced robots, but that stuff isn't shared
 typically.
 A lot of the stuff that iRobot is doing, not iRobot, a lot of the stuff iRobot and CMU
 does is for the military and that stuff ends up being siloed.
 So even though iRobot does make consumer robots, they don't necessarily get to use all that
 technology.
 But, or at least they don't get to use that money.
 Yeah.
 Right.
 They don't get to use military money.
 It always trickles down, doesn't it?
 It does, eventually.
 And it is finally trickling down in the Ava for iRobot, I think.
 And they're going to attach an arm to it.
 Oh my God.
 Whatever you say they're going to attach X, it doesn't matter.
 If it has to be attached, that's bad news.
 Well, right now it doesn't have an arm, but they've implied to me that it will.
 Is it a human arm?
 Hopefully.
 Okay.
 Can you imagine?
 And it will be very useful.
 Sorry, Boston Dynamics.
 What was that?
 We've been saying CMU for-
 Did they do-
 Yeah.
 No, they didn't do Pet Man.
 They didn't do Pet Man.
 No, I've been horribly wrong.
 It's Boston Dynamics.
 Oh, so Pet Man and Big Dog are related.
 Yes, and they're both by Boston Dynamics.
 Can I just say, they got to start coming up with better names.
 Yeah.
 Pet Man and Big Dog sound like attacking-
 But isn't there a competitor to Big Dog?
 It sounds like a nickname for a fellow teammate on a football team.
 But there's a competitor to Big Dog called Alpha Dog, and that's just like-
 No.
 Now you're just getting crazy.
 Is there?
 No, Alpha Dog is Big Dog's successor.
 So it's not a competitor.
 So you don't know anything.
 I really don't know nothing.
 There are a bunch of-
 I hate robots.
 This is not your wheelhouse.
 No.
 Bunch of similar robot-
 Do you guys want to talk about patents?
 There's literally no consumer-facing application for any of these robot-
 No, if you're a rich guy-
 No, but Big Dog and Pet Man have no-
 Right.
 There is nothing in your home that is remotely-
 Nobody's working on it.
 Nobody's making it.
 Right.
 And a humanoid that's useful in your home is like 20 years away.
 Easily.
 I mean, 20 years is probably being generous, right?
 I mean, how long have we had cell phones until we got cell phones that did something really interesting and cool?
 It's been like 150 years of cell phones.
 You saw that movie on YouTube.
 No, no, no.
 All I'm saying is that the way we critique tablets and cell phones right now where it's like,
 that's pretty good, but if they did this and this-
 You think we'll be doing that with robots in-
 Yes, I think in five to ten years that's how we're treating robots.
 This robot did a pretty good job of getting that out of my fridge, but it should have been more effective.
 I agree.
 Even like what we're talking about, Siri.
 Siri is pretty cool, but it's somewhat limited.
 You don't think we'll come up with something like Tractor Beam technology that will obviate the need for robots?
 That'd be awesome.
 That's a beautiful idea.
 That's your next feature.
 Yeah, will Tractor Beams obviate the need for robots?
 You could write that.
 Maybe I will.
 And you should riff on this title, so it's like beaming as bebop.
 I don't understand that.
 No, no.
 All right, let's move on.
 Oh, it's a music thing?
 Well, it says walking is jazz.
 Oh, oh, oh, secretly clever.
 Secretly clever.
 That's actually, that's my first pop psychology book.
 Secretly clever.
 Secretly clever.
 The I Patel Story.
 The I Patel Story.
 Secretly clever.
 His whole life.
 His whole life.
 No one knew.
 No one knew his dark secret.
 Secretly clever.
 The Neli Patel Story.
 Let's move on.
 What death do you want to talk about first? Flash or WebOS?
 Let's do WebOS because we're going to lose people when we start talking about Flash.
 Yeah, yeah.
 No, we won't.
 So HP.
 HP, this week Reuters reported that HP was in talks, deep, deep in talks to sell off,
 potentially sell off WebOS to the highest bidder.
 And that story, by the way, you know, that story, there's criticism of how we, like,
 new media cover stories, right?
 We do these updates.
 That story changed dramatically over the course of two days and they never pointed it out.
 So first they were...
 That's the beauty of traditional media is they can change a story completely.
 And they are never held accountable.
 Do you know why?
 No comments.
 Nobody's like, what happened?
 This story was different because they don't have them.
 Bloomberg does the best job of pointing out.
 They put the updates at the top.
 They say update.
 Bloomberg's the real deal.
 But anyway, so Reuters...
 I don't know what they're doing.
 They do a good job.
 Reuters reported the story came out initially that was HP deep in talks and Oracle's...
 Everyone's talking about Oracle.
 Leading.
 Which is nuts.
 They would want it for the patents.
 They want it for the patents.
 Also, Mark Hurd, who was the CEO of HP when they bought...
 What do you think Hurd is thinking?
 Let's get that back.
 I want Oracle to make smartphones.
 Yeah.
 I mean, do you think Hurd had any interest in smartphones to begin with?
 I mean, I think there's probably an element of it where he thinks it's kind of funny and
 kind of hilarious to buy it from HP.
 He's just like trolling you.
 This is a $1 billion joke.
 No, basically.
 I mean, I think...
 I mean, I think...
 I mean, I think...
 I think he basically said HP is stupid for getting rid of Mark Hurd.
 No, he didn't basically say it.
 He verbatim said they're stupid.
 He said they're bozos and they're blowing it.
 That should be his new thing.
 Well, he has his...
 They're stupid is their bozos.
 Yeah.
 It actually really is.
 Yeah.
 So, I mean, I think there's probably an element where Hurd wants to buy it just to make HP
 lose money on it.
 But then, you know, they're suing Google.
 I can't imagine there's truly an element where Hurd wants to buy it just to make HP
 lose money.
 Well, they did blow it.
 I mean, they are bozos who blew it.
 I can't imagine Hurd is like, I'm going to make them pay by rebuying Palm.
 No, no, no.
 I don't think it's I'm going to make them pay.
 I think there's a big strategic advantage for Oracle to do it.
 I think they're in the middle of a lawsuit with Google about Java and Android.
 So, he's like, HP doesn't know what they have.
 Right.
 You know what you got till it's gone.
 Right.
 And it's like, and we can use this to force Google's hand.
 I think that's great, right?
 Yeah.
 But then later, the next day that the Reuters story was updated, secretly updated to add
 a secretly rim.
 What was it?
 Secretly clever.
 Is that what it was?
 Yeah.
 It's this guy.
 Who was the secretly clever person?
 Neelay Patel.
 It was updated.
 It was everybody.
 It was rim.
 It was I think who else was in the mix there?
 It was Oracle, IBM, Lenovo.
 LG.
 LG.
 Yeah.
 So, everybody that we've ever heard about.
 Everybody.
 And then the next day, this is I think where Josh, you should pick up the story.
 Yeah.
 So, the next day we had multiple sources saying, and I'm trying to think of the best way to
 phrase this because it's not as easy to explain in what you saw on the site, two or more sources.
 That's a lot for us.
 If you get one person saying that you can trust saying this thing's going to happen,
 that's one thing.
 If you have two reliable or more, that's a big deal.
 Said, there's Meg Whitman, CEO of HP, not CEO of Palm or WebOS, CEO of the entire company
 of HP which is way, way bigger than WebOS and Palm.
 Way bigger.
 Like really it's a drop in the bucket comparatively.
 It's holding in all hands and there's going to be a decision.
 There's going to be some decision made or talked about at this all hands meeting.
 So, we ran a story saying that HP, that Meg Whitman was going to hold in all hands.
 It was likely going to be the decision and they hold in all hands and the all hands is
 like a 15 minute sit down where Meg Whitman's like, you know what?
 I don't really know what we're going to do.
 And she said some really crazy stuff too.
 I just want you to know I'm not sure yet.
 And the thing is, the weird thing is when have you ever heard of the CEO of a company
 holding in all hands to tell people that she's still thinking about something?
 Right.
 Like that's just not done.
 So, here's the quote that we ran.
 Meg, she was just hitting refresh on the verge.
 There's a new story like, oh, all hands.
 You know, that's an interesting answer.
 Maybe I should have all hands.
 I actually have a theory.
 My theory is that, and I really, in my heart I've begun to think this is what happened.
 I think that they were going to tell that team about something.
 They were going to say some definitive move.
 Because by the way, it's been since August 18th.
 August 18th.
 Wow.
 That's when Leo Apotheker said.
 That's when Leo Apotheker said we're done making touch pads, we're done making phones,
 we're going to look for strategic alternatives or whatever.
 And Meg Whitman came on in, how long ago was it?
 Three weeks ago.
 Three weeks ago.
 But they have been talking and thinking about this thing.
 It's been like three months now.
 So, three months into it, with this just people flailing, people leaving, you don't come to
 that group and say, I don't know.
 Right.
 We might go big or we might go home.
 So, and lest you think that we are overstating this, the quote that we ran, that we're very
 confident in, is that she said, it's not obvious exactly what to do here.
 Yeah.
 Which is an insane thing to say.
 And then she said, well, and this is another quote that we got, if HP decides to keep web
 OS, we're going to do it in a very significant way over a multi-year period.
 HP can make a bet that expensive.
 But she doesn't know whether or not it's worth it.
 Yeah.
 And then she said, and that's only if you consider tablets.
 If you add in cell phones, the whole equation changes.
 Yeah.
 So, we actually heard, I mean, there was some chatter that a lot of people now think, or
 some people think, that they're going to keep it.
 Who's left to develop it if they keep it?
 Right.
 I mean, start a hiring process.
 That's a problem you can throw money at, if you're HP, I think.
 I don't think it's a problem you can throw money at.
 I think talented people want to work on successful projects.
 I disagree.
 Look, I'm developing a new mobile Linux, Josh.
 I'd like you to lead it.
 It's doomed.
 Web OS is doomed.
 No, that's what I'm saying.
 I don't think you can throw money at Web OS.
 It's going to be on a coffee maker with Netflix.
 I don't think you can throw money at developing it.
 I don't think you can get the people to not work at Apple.
 I mean, let's talk about the proposition of Web OS in any situation where it is not simply
 held for its patents.
 It is, we are going to create a fourth now.
 Okay, you have Google, Apple, and Microsoft buying.
 RIM is on the decline.
 Anything can happen, but RIM is not in great shape.
 Nokia is out.
 Symbian is not a thing that's happening.
 MeeGo is not a thing that's happening.
 Web OS has failed twice.
 The proposition is we're going to re-up staff, money.
 We're going to try to do a new mobile platform.
 And the tagline will be, we're totally serious.
 Yeah, it's really happening.
 It's not going to happen.
 It can't happen.
 The climate is all wrong.
 People are not – you have problems within Android, and that's a single ecosystem essentially.
 And it's winning.
 And it's winning.
 We were just talking about it, right?
 There's fragmentation on phones now that you have Amazon, Barnes & Noble.
 And it's a runaway success.
 That's a runaway success.
 Microsoft clawing its way, trying to claw its way back to relevance with Windows Phone
 along with Nokia.
 RIM completely flailing.
 I mean, they're on the decline right now.
 And these guys are going to come out of nowhere and say our stuff is better for some reason
 because we have cards.
 In 2009, it seemed somewhat realistic.
 In 2011, I don't see it.
 Yeah, but again, that's why Oracle – that's why they seem like the most reasonable bet
 because Oracle can buy them.
 They can buy them from the intellectual property.
 They can buy them from the patents and then use them to collect licensing fees from Google,
 who is the winner.
 I mean, or HP could hold onto those patents.
 And do what?
 What if HP said, okay, Microsoft, we're sorry for playing around with our own things.
 We're going to go all in Microsoft.
 We're going to make Windows 8 tablets and we're going to make Windows Phone phones.
 And we want to be another Nokia.
 We want to bring our patents and our IP.
 They don't have any credibility.
 Nokia has credibility all around the world.
 Here's a place where I could see WebOS.
 One place I could see a possible working relationship.
 HTC either buys or licenses – hold on, let me finish.
 I've been saying this for like three years, dude.
 Amazon.
 They're not – they're not using – I think I said this too about Amazon actually.
 They're not using WebOS as a platform.
 WebOS becomes the skin and all of the card stuff and the notifications and whatever else,
 it's all baked into Android.
 Because really there aren't that many differences.
 It's a different way of multitasking, which I think you could do.
 I mean, in fact –
 They have to all be designed in Java.
 Well, the new ice cream sandwich basically works like WebOS.
 You see cards, you swipe them away to get rid of them, but you swipe to the right instead of up.
 I mean, I'm just saying –
 You know what I see?
 I see HTC's future.
 I mean, I've been thinking this for a long time.
 HTC?
 HTC.
 Yeah.
 I think that they like Android.
 I think that they've moved away from Google in a very significant way.
 I don't know that Google is super happy about Sense and the things that HTC is doing with Sense.
 I don't know that I'm super happy about Sense.
 Well, I mean, I'm just saying that I think Google is trying to take a little bit more ownership of their experience.
 And I think HTC has had a long and illustrious relationship with Microsoft.
 And I see them headed more in that direction over time.
 To Windows Phone?
 To Windows Phone.
 Really?
 Yeah.
 I mean, they're paying a bunch of money to Microsoft.
 Well, that'll be –
 The Radar is really one of the nicest phones this year.
 No, it's nice.
 And they're advertising it heavily.
 Yeah.
 And the Radar is 50 bucks, right?
 It's so nice.
 Yeah.
 It's not 50, is it?
 Yeah, it's a little one.
 That's a low end.
 Yeah.
 It's a pretty nice low end phone.
 Yeah.
 I mean –
 All I'm saying is WebOS, there aren't a lot of options unless you want to use it on your printer.
 Hence Meg Whitman's inability to come to a decision.
 I'm sorry.
 I just – I would love to – can I go back and talk to the people who were like talking
 about how cool it would be?
 I think John Rubenstein was one, who I love, is a great guy, really smart.
 We've had many conversations over the years.
 Many margaritas.
 Many margaritas.
 Can we just revisit your it's going to be great on printers stuff and just get a reality check on that?
 Do we talk about this on every podcast at this point?
 I think we do.
 We should just move on.
 We should just move on.
 Anyhow, WebOS is –
 There's a good segue.
 We're going to find out in a month.
 That's it.
 Well, she said three to four weeks they're going to have an answer.
 It'll be a month.
 I think they had an answer that night.
 I think they had an answer and they didn't want it.
 They didn't want to say after there was hype about it.
 Well, then the answer has to be we are going to sell it.
 They'll probably do it right after their earnings.
 You think they want to have a secret all-hands and then the news would leak out later?
 Yeah, basically.
 Yeah, something very subtle wasn't going to be like a splash.
 They're doing this thing.
 Here it comes.
 It was going to be like –
 What I'm saying –
 They're signing it off and it trickles out.
 What I'm saying is if that's true, then they were going to sell it.
 They were going to keep it.
 What?
 Oh, my God.
 The news were going to double down on WebOS again.
 What is the point of having that meeting?
 If you're selling it, what do you care if people stay?
 What do you mean?
 It wasn't to soothe people, right?
 To say, hey, guys, don't go – I'm saying if you hold a meeting –
 But why delay the announcement that you're going to keep it and bet on it?
 That doesn't make any sense.
 The verge.
 I don't think –
 The verge.
 That doesn't make any sense.
 I mean, doesn't it?
 No.
 Not at all.
 I think you want to downplay the hype.
 You delay the announcement that you're selling it.
 You don't want to downplay the hype of you're keeping it.
 Of selling it.
 That's what I'm saying.
 They were going to sell it.
 Either way.
 I don't know.
 I don't like it.
 We should move on.
 Actually, we were talking about RIM buying WebOS.
 Yes.
 I think that that has actually – some other news this week has actually made that a bit
 more of a realistic possibility.
 What?
 No.
 Listen to me.
 I got this one.
 I can do this.
 See what I did there?
 No.
 Look.
 I'm listening.
 The Playbook is entirely developed in Flash.
 It's like totally Flash-based OS.
 Really doubled down in Flash.
 Flash is for Android and the Playbook has been cancelled.
 Can we talk about Flash before you – yeah.
 Playbook is not entirely Flash.
 It runs Flash apps.
 It heavily relies on Flash.
 No.
 It heavily relies on Flash.
 So Adobe this week – let's talk about – don't bury the lead.
 Adobe.
 Adobe.
 Adobe this week said –
 Qdoba.
 Qdoba.
 Qdoba.
 My favorite –
 They cancelled chicken burritos this week.
 Chipotle this week – no.
 Adobe this week said they are going to cease development on Flash for –
 Android and the Playbook.
 Android and Playbook.
 They, by the way, didn't mention WebOS, which is the other platform they were developing
 Flash for.
 It hasn't gone so well.
 No.
 They're done.
 HTML5 is the thing now.
 They have conceded –
 It's an amazing quote.
 Let me see if I can pull up this quote.
 Can you pull it up?
 They've conceded that HTML5 is cooler than Flash on mobile devices and they're giving
 up basically.
 There's no other way to say it.
 HTML5 is the best solution, says Adobe.
 Which is – I mean, that's basically like Steve Jobs, you were right.
 They waited – I wish he could have gotten to see this in a way.
 Man, well, I'm happy.
 I mean, everybody saw this.
 You know what I think this is?
 It was terrible.
 Adobe has been trying really hard to have a web standard and they did.
 They had for a good, I don't know, decade, decade and a half.
 They had a web standard.
 But the technology was moving past them and they ultimately – Adobe's history is serving
 developers and designers and content creators and ultimately they have to create great tools
 for content creators and they can't necessarily – right now they've been serving both Flash
 content creation and HTML5 content creation.
 They had to bet a horse.
 They had to bet a horse?
 What?
 They had to put their money behind – I don't know how –
 They had to bet on a horse.
 Yeah.
 They had to go all in.
 They had to put their chips down.
 And double down.
 Double down on a horse.
 Annie up.
 They had to Annie up and double down on a horse.
 Yeah.
 And they doubled down.
 Bet on black.
 Now they've doubled down on HTML5.
 And I think it's a really great decision.
 Well, we'll see.
 Wait till HTML6 comes along.
 They're like, Flash 20.
 We've been developing in secret.
 No, I don't think that's going to happen.
 Flash is over.
 No, it is.
 And the thing about them saying we're killing it for mobile and we're going to keep developing
 it for the PC is like you're lying.
 You should just tell the truth.
 And the truth is that the future of all content is mobile.
 Yeah.
 If I'm using my iPad and I'm using my Android tablet or whatever, my Android phone –
 And there's no Flash.
 And there is no Flash, then you've got to do something or that content just goes away.
 Right.
 So what are you going to do?
 And they should –
 And more and more that people are going using mobile devices.
 Right.
 And what I'm saying we're doing it for mobile is it's a shade.
 They're shading the truth.
 But the mobile and desktop is getting closer to parity.
 Right.
 And I don't think there's any doubt that mobile will eclipse desktop rapidly.
 Right?
 They're approaching parity.
 I think desktop Flash still has a good five years.
 Yeah, but it's a five years of like fading away.
 Slowly fading.
 Five years of people converting their science to a five.
 If you want to watch any streaming video – like HTML5 video is getting better for like recorded
 clips.
 But if you want –
 That sounds true.
 Like streaming video –
 No, dude.
 That is all happening in Flash right now.
 Wait.
 No, you're crazy.
 I watch –
 Just in TV, Twitch TV –
 NFL Sunday Ticket on my iPad all the time streaming from DirecTV.
 Oh, that's on a mobile device.
 I'm saying on the desktop Flash is so –
 Yeah, but why couldn't you just – but wouldn't it be even better on a desktop?
 Yeah, like I get angry when I open my laptop.
 Yeah.
 Why should I have to suffer through –
 I'm just saying that's the state of things right now.
 It's the state of things because that's like the status quo.
 Because right now you can't lock things down.
 Like all the – like Mog and RDO use Flash because that's how you lock things down.
 I mean –
 No, so actually – no, this is a really great point, Paul.
 Because I know for a fact that most content – like big content companies, they consider
 the PC an insecure platform.
 And they say it all the time.
 And that's why they're happy to go to Roku and the Boxee Box.
 That's why they're happy to do mobile because Apple promised that it's an secure platform.
 I will say that –
 But the thing that I think is crazy is that not only did they kill Flash for mobile, they
 killed Flash for the TV, which is what enabled them – which enabled Boxee to build the
 Boxee Box and say there's a browser.
 It runs Flash.
 You can build that stuff.
 They also killed Flash for TV.
 They enabled Google to build the Google TV and say we're running Android with Flash.
 It's a secure – it's no longer like a PC.
 It's connected to television.
 It has a browser that's secure and you can use Flash.
 And all that's dead.
 So these two huge bets by Boxee and Google have basically been completely undermined
 by Adobe.
 And I don't know –
 So what are you saying?
 I mean, I just – you know, Google's moving to apps and the Google TV.
 But like that whole thing that you're talking about where Flash was a secure layer on the
 PC, that might still be the future for the PC.
 That's what I'm saying.
 Is it secure?
 No, I think you're right.
 I'm agreeing.
 I love you, buddy.
 All right.
 So the end game is HTML5.
 Yes, yes, totally.
 Absolutely.
 I'm just saying that Flash is going to be around for a while because it is this platform
 for streaming and for security right now.
 Right.
 I mean, it's –
 On the desktop.
 For right now.
 You know what you're saying is Flash is jail.
 Yeah.
 Well, I mean –
 Flash is jail on the desktop.
 Well, in certain places where there are no other ways to get at a secure solution, that's
 going to have to do.
 But I mean –
 For now.
 Poor Adobe, man.
 I mean, HTML5 also just isn't quite future complete.
 It's getting there, but it's not quite all the way.
 Right.
 I agree.
 I agree with you.
 Actually, somebody is yelling Silverlight in our chat.
 And I will say this.
 Yeah, they're killing Silverlight.
 They're going to kill Silverlight, too.
 How are we going to watch the Olympics without Silverlight?
 That's exactly right.
 That was what I said.
 So I want to –
 That's my first question.
 How are we going to watch the Olympics?
 I want to talk about –
 I got to see Sean White ripping it.
 What is he, a snowboarder?
 Yeah.
 Yeah, that's a skateboard.
 I think we should do one more thing, and then I think we should wrap.
 I mean, do a wrap together.
 Because we have a couple of other topics here that, frankly, I just think we can – we
 don't have to talk about.
 Do you agree or disagree?
 No, we don't have to talk about it.
 I can just say what they are.
 No, no, no.
 Yeah, okay, fine.
 Tegra 3.
 Tegra 3 came out.
 It's official.
 NVIDIA is very proud of it.
 Transformer Prime.
 Transformer Prime came out.
 Hashtag 3.
 Hashtag 3.
 I'm waiting for the trans-morfer font.
 Trans-morfer Prime.
 Trans-morfer Prime.
 Trans-morfer Prime.
 Trans-morfer Prime.
 No, it's Tegra 3, but no Ice Cream Sandwich.
 It's going to launch with Honeycomb.
 Not interested.
 I'm an ICS man.
 Oh, actually, let me just quickly kind of –
 Asus has been pretty good at updating, though.
 They actually have been really on the ball, more than anybody.
 Let me just quickly say on Ice Cream Sandwich, I wrote a post today.
 You'll be having to know this is my Nexus back in a small way, at least.
 In a tiny, baby way.
 About how I badly want the Galaxy Nexus.
 That's it.
 There's nothing else to say.
 You've been hearing me talk about it.
 We're going to shut down the column after that.
 That was all.
 That's it.
 I hope this is my Nexus.
 So people can talk about the thing that they want the most.
 Let's not get crazy.
 Finally –
 I think we should get crazy.
 Finally.
 Let's get nuts.
 You want nuts?
 Finally.
 I would actually – I'm a little hungry.
 You nuts over there?
 Kim's running.
 No, no, no, no, no.
 I'm good.
 It's okay.
 We have the first On the Verge.
 It's happening.
 Which is our new –
 My parents are coming.
 What?
 No.
 Yeah.
 The Patels.
 Oh my god.
 The Doctors Patel are going to be there.
 Yes.
 Oh, I'm going to meet them.
 Oh, it's going to be awesome.
 I'm going to meet them so much.
 You are going to confuse each other so much.
 I am going to hang with your parents.
 I'm going to do knockback shots of Jägermeister with your parents.
 Oh, that is so much.
 I'm going to take your parents to a strip club.
 Anyhow –
 That is the most deep threat that anybody has ever –
 I'm going to take your parents to a strip club.
 They're going to love it.
 Next Monday.
 Yeah.
 This coming Monday.
 On the Verge.
 New York City.
 Yep.
 7 p.m.
 You think we could pull it off?
 Honestly, I have no idea.
 But I'll say this.
 It's going to be fun.
 It may be crazy.
 Matias Duarte is there.
 That's going to be awesome.
 Still not 100 percent sure that I'm pronouncing his name right.
 But that's fine.
 That's what the interview is for.
 That's what the – I'm actually going to spend a half an hour with Matias just trying
 to get to the bottom of his name.
 But we have a bunch of cool stuff planned and I'm very excited about it.
 And I'm going to be there.
 I'm going to meet them.
 I'm going to meet them.
 I'm going to meet them.
 I'm going to meet them.
 I'm going to meet them.
 I'm going to meet them.
 So that is our show for the week.
 We'll be back next week with more – well, we're doing the show on Monday and then
 we're also going to do a video podcast.
 So it's like you're getting two shows in one week.
 Yeah.
 But one has much higher production value.
 One has much higher production value.
 One is essentially it's like you're in a gutter in a sewer somewhere.
 And I'm not going to tell you which one is which but I think you can probably guess.
 This is the sewer.
 Anyway, that's it for us.
 We'll be back next week.
 We'll be back next week.
 Thank you so much for listening and watching if you did that and joining in in the Ustream.
 And I just wish all the best for you and yours over the weekend.
 And I hope you – you're just dying to say it.
 And I hope that you enjoy it.
 I hope that you enjoy your weekend and I hope that you get the rest that I think you deserve.
 Rock and roll.