 Hello. You've made a terrible mistake. This is the Virgcast. No, hello. Welcome to the Virgcast. It's the week of November something, November 4th. I am extremely prepared for today's show and I have with me Adrian Jeffries. And my name is Chris Ziegler. Shocking surprise, Chris Ziegler. You may know me from a little program known as The Virg Mobile Show. It airs every Tuesday. I highly recommend it. Yeah. It's a good time. It's a good hour and a half. I've heard. I've heard that there was a lengthy digression on kale this past week in which one of the listeners was almost murdered by a saw. I'm not joking. That's a story. That's actually a story that I heard. Well, we, so generally Vlad and I get into a debate about vegetables. I mean, and it's not something, it's not something that I'm trying to do. It just happens. Vegetables, I believe are the oldest mobile technology. You can take them anywhere. Yeah. I've been told by the producer that I'm not speaking to my mic, so I apologize. Is this, is this better? Is this better? Hello. I've been told by the producer something, so in return I will troll the producer directly to the microphone. Anyway, we're here. There's a lot going on. This is obviously our show where we cover technology, technology culture, vegetables, vegetables, really just a wide range of foods and things that have lights. So big news already today. It's happening right now as we speak. People who work at Twitter got rich and they are getting richer by the minute as far as I can tell. Yes. I actually don't know what the stock is at now, but Twitter's IPO is today. It started at 26, which yesterday led to an incredible wave of asinine stories about whether it would be $25, $27 or $26 with a lot of debate and punditry about the relative value of each of those numbers, which was wonderful and I'm glad that I read any of it. Experts say 26 is worth less than 27. What are you doing? Do you guys want to hear a fun fact about stocks? It used to be that if a symbol for a company had four letters, it meant that it was on NASDAQ. Oh yeah. And if it had a different number of letters, it meant that it was on the New York Stock Exchange. But as ticker symbols became something you could negotiate on, like vanity ticker symbols became a thing, they dropped that. And so now you can no longer tell. Twitter is TWTR. That would have been NASDAQ before, but they debuted on the New York Stock Exchange. Oh, young rebels. If they were ballers, they would have taken T from AT&T. AT&T has T? Yeah. It would be cool if they had the ampersand. The oldest companies in the world have one or two letters on the stock exchange. And Pandora. Their P? Pandora has P. That's amazing. Well, Pandora is 125 years old. Pandora was founded by Franklin Roosevelt. I feel like a company could just buy some older company just to be baller and get their ticker symbol. That's actually what happened to AT&T. AT&T is currently constituted as not AT&T. It's SBC, which was Ameritech. They broke up AT&T into a thousand pieces and then they reconstituted themselves into SBC. And then SBC bought AT&T and they're like, screw this other brand, we'll be AT&T again. And now they're AT&T again. Have you seen the Stephen Colbert thing about that? No. You guys should Google it right now. It's like one of the most amazing 90 seconds ever on television. Oh, it just goes in the circle? Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. I mean, look, why wouldn't you want the AT&T brand name, which stands for nothing but reliable customer service and excellent signal quality throughout America? So Twitter's apparently at 4,494 right now. I just saw 45. Which means that as of this moment, at Williams is worth $11 billion precisely. Yeah. No, there's like, okay, so there's a ton of Twitter stuff going on, right? 4510 is what it opened at. So people made a lot of money, which is in stark contrast to what happened with Facebook where it went down and then like the servers all crashed. Right. Like little old like grannies around America were like driven, like throwing themselves. One thing that was really interesting about the Facebook IPO was that it was a record setter in terms of volume. Like the number of people buying and selling shares, which I don't know exactly what that means. I guess there was a lot of disagreement on whether it was worth anything. Yeah. There were like an unprecedented number of people who thought it was worth nothing and an unprecedented number of people who thought it was worth a fortune. And I'm kind of curious about what the volume was like for Twitter, although I don't think that that's been published anywhere yet. Well, I think the thing with Facebook was like definitely a huge swath of like regular people thought it was their opportunity to be part of the next Google. Right. Because it's a big Internet company they heard about, you're probably using it and people know that if you invest in Google at the right time, you got rich. And I think that was real for Facebook. I don't think that's the case for Twitter. Either their whole process has been really quiet and well managed and nobody's like, there are no like stunning revelations about Twitter in the mix like there were with Facebook. They're run by a Michigan graduate, which is always a good thing. Yeah. He used to be a standup comedian. So really that degree really helped him out right after graduation. It's true by the way, Dick Casull used to be a standup comedian. Credits Second City in Chicago for teaching him everything he knows. Again, not a great indictment of the University of Michigan, but I guess it works. He's got the logo there. But Twitter doesn't have these problems, right? Like people know what Twitter is, they kind of know where the business is going. There's no like stunning last minute, by the way, all of our users are on mobile and we haven't put ads on that yet. So we don't know. Right. And there was also a much shorter lead time for how long everybody knew. You know, like the exact date wasn't like with Facebook, everybody knew it was coming much further in advance. Right. And I zoned out a second ago when you were talking about Google, but like the Google IPO and I'm going to get out of my depth here. The Google IPO was interesting because they designed it so that there wouldn't be a bump on the first day. Right. Okay. You said that already. I didn't say it already. Oh, okay. You just weren't paying attention. I should have lied. So that didn't happen with Facebook and it did happen with Twitter. Well, Google IPO is like super engineered, right? But like people who bought into it, not that first day bump, which made people rich, but people who like bought in early are obviously very rich now. And I think that's what it was with Facebook was like, this is my opportunity. This is like my golden ticket. I think that's why a lot of like mom and pop investors bought it. I just, I think, and this is what, whatever IPO stuff aside, this is actually, I think Twitter's big story and what Casey wrote a report about it, about their redesign, but the stuff they're doing, I don't think regular people know what Twitter is. I don't think they know how to use it. I don't know what it's for. And I think it's really hard if you're a normal person to sign up for Twitter and do anything with it. Twitter quitters, right? Like it's a real thing. Like there's a real thing or is that a rhyme? Well, it's both, it's both. It's a real thing that is conveniently a rhyme. Yeah. Uh, but there's this whole notion of people who sign up and realize that they don't understand what it is or how to use it or why nobody's following them and then they quit. Right. And then go back to Facebook. So yeah, I mean, that's not going to think for them. Oh man, there's Silk Road news happening right now. What's happening? I gotta go. I don't know. I don't know yet. Where can you go? Isn't this a virtual community? Like I have to go somewhere else and use this laptop. What's happening? Um, Russell's about to inform me. We're breaking news. Can we get like a scrolling breaking news thing on the screen right now? Oh, it's about the new Silk Road, the 2.0 Silk Road. There's a new Silk Road. Yeah. Yeah. For all your drug buying needs. Why isn't it called Silk Road Reloaded? That's the obvious name. It's like really obvious. It's a picture of a syringe. It's like, so it's a gift of a syringe. Yeah. It's slowly filling up again. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's the purest heroin you can buy. Well, their, their competitor was called black market reloaded. So that could be, it could be brand confusion there. Right. Yeah. It's dilution. You don't want to file that lawsuit. Yeah. All right. Anyway, what were we talking about? Twitter? I mean, I'm always talking to Twitter. How much Twitter do you own? Zero Twitter. I own zero. Do you guys remember when, um, Justin Bieber accounted for 3% of Twitter's servers? Yes. I mean, that was when Twitter was running on like four Mac minis and went down every other day. Do you think that he also accounts for 3% of Twitter's investment? Do you think that he's a billionaire now? No, that's what I was saying before. That's how it works. Like you get an, a share for every Twitter follower you have. Well then I'm, I'm retired. Yeah. Then I have 1400 shares. It's the best. Um, no, look, I like Twitter's redesigned this, this new version of their app, which is designed to make it easier to do stuff. I'm accidentally following like every single person who tweets at me cause it's the follow button and the timeline is right where I scroll. Yep. So I, I favorite literally every tweet now in accident. Yeah. Like every tweet you're turning into Mike Isaac. Yes. That's exactly like everything that they're doing, like redesigning it. They're making it friendlier. They're going to like make the ads more integrated. There's like huge pictures everywhere and they're turning it into Facebook. There's like no doubt in my mind that that's the way they need to grow in this. Well that sucks. Well, but like, do you, like, do you want to run a business that's predicated on like celebrities and media people tweeting at each other? Cause I don't think that you can grow. Like there is a finite number of celebrities big enough to like be meaningful on Twitter. Well, I will say that about 80% of entertainment and E and us weekly stories now involve a tweet. Yeah. So they've definitely cracked that market wide open, whatever that market is. Yeah, but Twitter doesn't make any money from that. Like when entertainment. Yeah. But like when entertainment tonight like goes on television with a tweet and they have like their own big shiny TV ads next to it, like coming up next, guess what Kanye tweeted today? It's like, guess who didn't make any money from this? Twitter.com. Like it doesn't matter. Like they need to figure out how to get all that action happening on Twitter. And I don't think that happened. Right. I mean, they've been trying, they've been doing a few weird experiments lately, right? They have the, the magic racks, which is now like a real service. It's baked into a magic racks. Yeah. REC. Magic racks too. No magic racks is bet is baked into the latest version of the app, right? If I'm not mistaken, whatever. All I know is that this app is the ugliest app in the world now. And event parent is the other one. I don't know what that is. Parent does not work yet. What is that? It's supposed to be breaking news alerts, but it just doesn't really, it hasn't broken any news in days. No, but, but you know, I couldn't know about the IPO. Did you get that? But look, I can't remember who made this point on Twitter, but somebody made the, I think salient point that magic or not magic racks event parent is not for people like you and I it's for like the normals who they want to use Twitter as a news source and don't care if they get their quote unquote breaking news, 50 minutes late, you know, Twitter needs a Butler. Think about this. Imagine this. Jeez. Asked you. Now you sign up for Twitter and like a, like a Butler arrives and he's like a physical Butler, shows up on your screen and he's like, what are you interested in? What are you, who are you? You're describing flippy. You realize, you know, it has like a little conversation with you about your, your needs and wants and interests and it curates a, like a selection of things for you to follow. You're describing this really creepy hybrid of like a Amazon mayday and, and clippy. Yeah. It's Amazon mayday, clippy, and then like the, the scariest like user profiling, like humanly possible. And then that's what normal people need to make effective use of Twitter. Let's get on this. You're actually right. Unfortunately, right. It's like you, you show up and it's like, please let me just log into one web page. Like go to this webpage. It's full of like tracking cookies and it will construct a profile for you. Yeah. It is still like pretty complicated. Like Twitter almost has its own like very limited little programming language with hashtags and at replies that somebody who's totally new to it, it's still really confusing and God help the normals. If they find weird trip Twitter, then it's game over. Right. Yeah. Like, right. Or I mean all that is like find most of our staff. Right. I mean like that's kind of, it's just out there. It's, it's waiting for you. How big is weird Twitter? I feel like it's just some people in Brooklyn. It's like 20 people. Yeah. It's not that big. And like there's somebody who I think is like huge and then it turns out they have like 4,000, 5,000 followers. How many followers does drill have? Like, no, it's like over 20,000 I think. Really? Whatever. Here's what, I mean, I just think like 73,000, 73,000. Yeah. Drill. Nevermind. Weird Twitter is real. Weird. No, I mean Buzzfeed keeps running incredible lengthy like thought pieces on weird Twitter and what it means. And it's like, I don't, well, New York Times tried to bust open weird Twitter, right? Like a, yeah, a couple of months ago. In the Sunday style section. Oh my God. No, it was in the, it was in the wedding section. It was like weird Twitter was married to me. The bride attended Brown University. Um, I don't know. That's the only New York Times joke I have. Uh, we done talking about Twitter? Here's what I know. Your app is ugly. Fix it. Do that. Your stock would go up. Probably get richer, Jack. Think about it. It just, what should I use? Should I use tweet bot? What do you use? You have an Android phone. I use official app and food suite. Official, official app right here. No, but it's ugly. You just high five for like making a bad choice. Right. But like, look at the end of the day, Twitter has said it time and time again that people shouldn't make third party apps and I kind of believe them. Like at some point they're going to be like, okay, our, our API isn't sending out ads because we don't know how to do that without you filtering them out. So you just, we're just going to shut off the fire hose and you have to use the official app. So I don't want my heart to be broken in 2014 is what I'm saying. I'm just going to stay on the official app. You're just going to let your heart be broken every time you look at the horrific nature of the current system. Yes, and favorite every tweet. Just why would you do that? They're like, let's add little buttons everywhere. That'll be great. That's what people love. You know, people love using when they're using their mobile phones, their gigantic thumbs, little tiny buttons everywhere. It's just stars all over the page. Seriously, it's like the windows CE of mobile apps right now. That's what you made. You made windows 95 for little screen. What was that Sony UMPC that opened? You know what I'm talking about? The Vio. Yes, the UX 70. It looked awesome. No, not the Vio P. The Vio P was just an unapologetic piece of crash. It was the sliding. I wrote about it. The weird Sony. We did our, when we did our weird Sony piece, I have a thing on it. Yeah. It's UX something. Yeah. They made that. That's what your Twitter app is a throwback to that thing, which is not so bad because that was the height of Sony's hardware powers, but software wise a disaster. Let's talk about the Nexus 5. Speaking of hardware. Do you like that? Just went for it. Yep. Just went for it. UX 280. Adrian, I want you to hold this phone because you have one of the worst phones ever. Too big. Too big. Take it back. Hold it some more. So Adrian has a Droid Incredible 2 with a battery case. An enormous battery on the back of it. That's the extended battery. Like wouldn't you want the bulk of your phone to be screen and not like that? I mean, am I crazy? No, because it's just about like holding it. Like I don't want to stretch my fingers this way. I just want to comfortably hold a thing. Yeah. You are the person that I see on the subway who's holding like a shattered iPhone 4 and they seem absolutely delighted with it and I cannot get into their head to understand why. Cracked iPhones are chic. Yeah. I can see that. I get that. It makes sense. Brooklyn you mean. Yeah, whatever. I mean look, so I have come to the conclusion. Chris, have you played with this yet? Very briefly played with Dan's. So that is Dan's actually. I forgot mine at home. So I just stole Dan's and ran away. Thanks Dan. Thanks buddy. I've come to the conclusion that I truly deeply dislike that phone. That I think it feels very, very cheap and that sense of cheapness I think makes it feel more like a reference design. Like when you, you know when you go to CS or EFA or whatever and like you go into the Qualcomm booth and they're like look at what our new chip can do and it's like just in a totally generic case. Yeah. That's that. I swear to God that that's that. And we have this line in our, you know Dieter did, Dieter and David did a report with Matthias and like Hiroshi and Dave, like all the guys from Google and Matthias is like it's really serious plastic. No hardcore plastic. It's hardcore plastic. Yes, that is hardcore plastic. Oh God. This camera has a long history of taking really crappy pictures of me because it has a long history of taking really crappy pictures. Well, so here's, here's what I don't understand about the Nexus. There are many things to understand about this phone. Why are they spending so much breath talking about these ceramic buttons? They're just buttons. Because it's literally the only feature on the phone. There's nothing else to talk about. Hey, we made the back white and carved the Nexus logo into it. By the way, what else is there? What other hardware feature is there? The white on the back is exactly like the white of the One X. I don't know if you remember like the matte white One X. It's exactly the same. Matte has the same feel. Really? Yep. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's fine. But, but you know, I was saying on Twitter yesterday, what Google needs to do is like I, they, they've made it very clear. In fact, Dieter's report really drove this home. Google is not pulling any punches about the fact that Nexus is about a reasonable price and that's fine. I mean, there's, I feel like they accidented into that last time. Yeah, but now they've like codified it with this generation of devices. So like, and that's fine. Like there's a place for that. But Google also needs to make a balls to the wall phone and like they're not doing it and no one else is going to make a Nexus experience phone with like the best specs. Yeah, but they have made it with the best specs. It has a really good screen. The camera blows. But, but yeah, but why, if you're Google and you know that Samsung is going to take whatever you make and like throw it away and build their own camera app, their own sensor, and Sony's going to do the same thing. HCC is going to do the same thing. Why would you spend $1 on a camera engineer? And that's what the story of this phone is, right? The money of this phone is they put it where it's going to make the biggest impact when Android goes out in the world, right? So KitKat is like, they've put a lot of money in KitKat. They did this new Google search app, which is that now actually the launcher and like Google now is like right in front of you. They like to be some fonts and design, like all that stuff will like propagate throughout the world. But the camera app is like, Samsung's like, what's this bullshit? And like throw it away. But, but keep in mind, this is the same company that bid Pi for Nortel's patents and just build four floating Google islands. So I don't put it past them to spend a few dollars on someone who can make a decent camera. I don't think it's like one person though. That's what I'm saying. I think like you have to hire like a universal camera engineer. Actually no, actually this, this, this whole conversation is not right. It's not that they need the hardware engineering. It's that they need to tell LG to put a decent camera in the phone. But isn't, I don't think like getting a camera sensor is really the problem. I think it's like writing the driver and the software processing and like the JPEG engine. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely an interplay. I mean, I don't know if, yeah, maybe the sensor is as good as the camera. The sensor in a, it's every stock Android device I've ever used, including the HTC first, which had the same sensor as some other camera. Miriam, who's now Pebble was telling me it's the same sensor in a bunch of these phones and like the software makes radical differences across them. And I'm just saying like, just like, I think the story of this phone is they make them cheap. They sell them like developers buy them, Google nerds buy them. We buy them. God only knows why I keep buying them. And, but there's no incentive to improve the camera because the vast majority of people buy it. The Samsung Galaxy S4 and Samsung build this on camera app. Right. And that's just the story of Nexus. And like they can lie to us all they want about how they finally fixed it. And the camera's great now, but it has never gotten better. And with 4.4, I think the final nail in the coffin where they've really acknowledged that is the fact that they've taken all of that stuff, closed source. Like it's no longer a stock phone. It's the Google skin on Android is the way you need to think about it. Like there's the Samsung skin, the HTC skin and the Google skin on top of this core. But all of the stuff, all the apps that are in this phone are basically closed source now. They've all been taken out of AOSP. Even the lock screen is gone. Like, or not the lock screen, the home screen. Yeah. But if you want to build a stock Google phone, for lack of a better word, you can just go do it. Can't you? No. It like, if you, if you get the AOSP, we get the 4.4 AOSP. It has like four apps in it and no launcher as I understand it. Like 4.3 is where it tops out. The Nexus 5 launcher is custom to the Nexus 5. Really? Yep. So you're saying, Adrian, you're just saying no. By the way, when you're playing with the buttons, do you think to yourself, I was just going to say these, they don't even feel ceramic. Yeah, they don't. I don't know what ceramic feels like. I don't even know what it means. How do you not know what ceramic feels like? Do you not handle dishes ever in your life? I don't want it. I don't want dish material for my buttons. Why is that a good thing? I don't know. Maybe they made them out of like space shuttle tiles or something. I mean, if they're going to lie to me at the camera app, lie to me about what you made the buttons out of. We made it out of space shuttles. Then I would buy one. Like, I mean, I'd buy another one. That would be an easy buy. Actually, Johnny Ive is auctioning a space shuttle window as part of his big charity, his red auction. Do you get the feeling that like the reason the iPad Air design is so, like we have one sitting here, but the reason it's like seriously, I got pinched up. I've had many is because he was too busy, like, like picking out stuff around the world. He's like, just make it bigger. Yeah. He's like, bring me a collection of space shuttle windows. I'm going to die this Mac Pro Red. Like he's like so busy like building a table. He's like, we're not going to worry about this. He definitely spent at least six months on that. Like, there's no question about it. Is there anything else to talk about? We have to talk about the camera. So you have an Android phone. Yeah. How much do you use that camera? I use it. For things not Snapchat. Ooh. Yeah. Not that much. Right. Actually. Why is that? Well, I'm not on Instagram and you want me to say, cause it's a crappy camera. I do. Did you just say you're not on Instagram? I'm not on Instagram. That's two high fives from Chris. Yep. In one VirgCast. For real. And one big drink for Nila. Well, I want you to say cause it's a crappy camera. I mean, I know it's a crappy camera, but do you think it was a better camera? Did you use more? Yeah. Probably. So why did you pick a phone with a bad camera or did it was a not on the list? I picked this phone for one reason, which is that it's the right size. Yeah. And I didn't really think about the camera. Yeah. I used to use it more, but I don't know. Have you played with a Moto X? No. Cause I'm curious, you know, there's this whole new generation of phones where the bezels are basically not there. So like the phones with the big screens no longer feel as big as they used to because like the one X is 4.7 I think. What is the speed roll we're running? I'm pretty sure that was an access five ad and I'm pretty sure it was completely insane. Okay. Okay. Shaky. No. Good. Yeah. No, I was just gonna say like, you know, you can get a bigger screen now and the phone doesn't really feel any bigger, which is nice. Yeah. I mean, I disagree. I think it still feels big. Like to me, you have this massive battery case on the thing. It's big in the other direction. I'm just letting that one go. You just don't know what it's like to have tiny hands. I really don't. It's like this, this phone and the iPhone are what fit in my hand and everything else. But you're like, you, you, you lead an Apple free lifestyle. That's true. Yeah. I don't have any Apple products right now. I know people like you, you secretly have an iPod that you use on the train. I know how this works. Whoa. I do have an iPod, but it's really old and I, I like never remember to charge it. I mean, I have to say living an Apple free lifestyle, but still being dependent in any way on iTunes is like the wrong way to go. Like I have a bunch of Apple devices, but I never use iTunes. I guarantee or I'm happier about that. Yeah. Like having windows with iTunes in my life. Yeah. It's basically the worst. Yeah. Um, I remember playing with a Nexus one at CES this year. I think Evan brought it or something and I was, and I, you know, I remember owning the Nexus one. I thought it was like big and like great. The Nexus one was gigantic. Yeah. It was a gigantic phone. The Galaxy Nexus was huge too. No, but now the Nexus one is tiny. It's 3.7 inches. It was, it was, it was, it was big. It was just big. Not real. No, I guarantee if you, if you, if you get a Nexus, you know, is that the big, the universal is a spig. It's real big. If you pick up a Nexus one now, you'll be like, this is the tiniest thing I've ever had in my hands. Do you remember when the first iPhone came out and Apple used a hand models of really gigantic hands to make it seem small? Apple went through a long run of fake hands and their TV ads and if you ever noticed that they were fake hands, it was so creepy. What do you mean? They would use rubber hands like to be like a rubber hand holding the thing still and then like another hand would like use the phone and it was just terrifying. And that's because they wanted it to be really still and like the, the tremor of a human hand was too noticeable. Yes, but the creepiness of the rubber hand was much better. Now once I, once you like noticed it in those commercials, it was like, why? If one of those hands, if one of those fake hands ever pops up on eBay, I'm getting it on that. That's a collect. You're getting like an Apple. I'm sure there's like a vault. A vault of Apple hands. So here's, here's my, you have a Nexus one. There's the Nexus one. Look at how cute it is. Look at, look at that little guy and the revolution it didn't start. That was the, yeah, that was back in the day when we were all young and naive. Hey, can, remember, so remember they launched this and they said, we're going to sign up all the carriers and do a bunch of stuff and that didn't happen. Right. And they got sprint at the end, desperate, lovable sprint. Yeah. Who just wants to go home with you. Please, please take me home. Do you want to get married? Sprint, the sprint story. And then they couldn't do it. And then they, the Galaxy Nexus, they like went to Verizon, went to Verizon, but Verizon like screwed him over, put out a crappy version of that phone that sucked with bad software that was really slow. So that Google started giving out unlocked AT&T versions to everybody. The Nexus 4 obviously had no LTE. And then now there's this one, which is unlocked AT&T and T-Mobile. And Sprint. And Sprint. And Sprint? Mm-hmm. Poor desperate Sprint. Just please go home with me. And then there's the Nexus 7, which is supposed to be on Verizon, but they're not going to unlock it or authorize it until Kit Kat comes out. Do you know about this? Yes. I feel like you're, there's an epic rant coming. There is. So actually Sean Hollister and I were just talking about this last night over email. I've kind of, at this point I've resigned. I'm just completely resigned to the fact that the 700 megahertz open access provision has no teeth whatsoever. That's like useless. Right. Because theoretically this would be the point where the FCC would swoop in with its cape and say, Verizon, you will activate these. Can you DM the FCC? It's the only human being I know who's followed by at FCC on Twitter. This would be a great Twitter IPO day story. My concerned citizen followed by the FCC, the one man who can use this power makes it happen. I'm literally the only man with the red phone that connects directly to the FCC. Do you think now that, if you guys don't know this story, it's when Julie Shonokowski was the chairman of the FCC, I asked him after an interview, not if at FCC would follow me, but if they would follow my friend Chris. And they did it. In honor to which I believe Chris owes me for and will owe me for the rest of his life. Yes, this is true. My concern is that Tom Wheeler is about to shake some shit up. He's going to go through his first day in office. He's like, who are we following on Twitter? Who's this guy? He's this asshole. It's like the chairman of labor, or the secretary of labor, like the Department of Justice, Z-Power. Some dude. By the way, I shared this tidbit on the mobile show this week as well. Jessica Wurzel, who is one of the three commissioners of the FCC, along with Ajit Pai and Mignon Clyburn. Mignon. I'm switching it up a little bit. She is not a video of this woman pronouncing her own name. Anyway, Jessica Rosenwurzel is the sister of the lead singer for Guster. Just want to point that out and throw that out there. How did you find that out? I can't remember where I saw it and may not be true, but I've heard this. By the way, Googling how to pronounce. Were you reading the Wikipedia page for Guster? I may have been reading the Wikipedia page for Guster. I'm not admitting that, but it's possible. I had a friend in middle school who followed Guster around the Midwest. Really? That's claim to fame. Yeah. Her name was... And now joining us on the communicators this weekend for the election is FCC Commissioner Mignon Clyburn. Just say it. Mignon. Okay. So my revived pronunciation... I mean, she didn't look angry when they pronounced it that way. So, Chris, you actually wrote a thing. I did. About how she's the best. She is amazing. She is a wonderful human being. She accomplished more in her far too brief tenure at the head of the FCC than the last three people combined. Do you think that's because she knew that she was on her way out the door? Yeah. She was yellow. Well, no. She wasn't yellow. She wasn't yellow because... Is it more Yoko, you only commissioner once? I'm really sorry. I'm going to go, everybody. But she's going back. I mean, she's not leaving the FCC. She's still a commissioner until 2017, I think. So she has to live with her decisions. It's not like she just did whatever and left. Yeah, but if you were just doing whatever you wanted for six months or whatever, living with those decisions would be easy. Right. Like, oh, yeah, that one, that was awesome. Remember when I made him do whatever I wanted? I would definitely clear out 500 megahertz of spectrum. Just be like, we're auctioning this. Sorry about that. No, I mean, what was the last one she did? She killed a sports blackout rule. Yes. That was her last move. And then the next day, Wheeler was signed in. Right. And she just went for it. Yeah, she went for it, which was a big deal. Although not as big as you might hope, because it's still ultimately up to stations and... Basically, she just got rid of the federal rules. But like, individual leagues and stations can still black stuff out if they want to, which is great. Yeah, that's what you want. You want local teams and then local stations to be constantly colluding off the books. Right. Collusion's great. That's how the city runs. Yeah, so she did that. She launched two frequency... Two band auctions. She completed the Sprint Clearwire Softbank deal, which is basically the biggest telecom deal in history, probably. The three-way deal between those companies is insane. You think she really read the paperwork carefully or she was just like, look? Yeah, she just signed it. I bet she did. She was like, give me the Reader's Digest version. Look, we got a couple minutes in Salvator. It's a long ride up to my office. Just tell me what's going on here. And she kind of broke the ice on a 10-year battle to crack the monopolies running pay phones in prisons, which is a surprisingly insane deal because basically, prisoners had been getting charged upwards of $4 just to place a call and then several dollars a minute, which is not really... And as I was saying on the Verge Mobile show, prisoners aren't necessarily the richest people on the planet. So it makes it difficult to make a call. Yeah, a lot of them don't vote. Right. They're like really low on the priority list. Exactly. They get taken care of. Exactly. So she pushed that through as well. You think that was after like a marathon Netflix session of Orange is the New Black? She was like, thank God I deregulated. Maybe just a Shawshank or something. Yeah. Can I say something? I just opened the camera on this because I realized we forgot to talk about the camera. My hatred... This is the next slide that I open. My hatred of these on-screen buttons knows no bounds. I'm just saying that to you. Go ahead. They're not good. They're not good. And they're not ceramic either. No, look, I think she was like... I do think that she had no... There were no checks on what she was able to do. Like she has no political future to fight for. Right. She's a lame duck. Yeah. And she just do whatever she wanted. And she did a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah. And all that is like watching what... I'm not particularly fond of our government at this moment in time, but watching what one person in our government can do when they don't have to worry about politics and they can just worry about being effective in terms of making things happen. Yeah. It's very, I would say, discouraging in my sense of hope in the future of this country. And now she's being replaced by a former lobbyist for the cable industry and the wireless industry. So we are in for a very desperate four years. All right. We should talk about this camera because we don't have time. Let's talk about the camera. So the camera is really not good. No, it's not. And I would point out that the on-screen buttons, I don't know if you can see this, cut off the camera button. Have you seen the shutter button? Oh yeah. Huh? The volume rocker does... Yes it does. The volume rocker takes a photo. That's fine. I'm just saying like there's a circle on the screen that's cut off by these on-screen buttons and I'm just going to say it right here right now. I hate them. You have regular buttons. What phone do you have right now, Chris? A 5S. You have 5S. Which is a pretty awesome camera. It's a pretty amazing camera. Yeah. I was taking pictures of a former member of N'Sync last night. It was JC Chazes. I was about to say, Joey Fatone, like tell me more. No, I went to a concert last night. What concert? Go ahead, share your little video. I went to an N'Sync concert last night. Share your video. No, I went to... It's really hard to say out loud. Look I'm sure that there were... I went to a Justin Timberlake concert last night. It was awesome. I loved every minute of it and he is a true performer and an artist. I said it. I said it all. I said it all. There's no shame in it. There are many men in their mid-30s at Justin Timberlake. There are lots of old dudes there. No, no. It was seriously like lots of old dudes with their hot little side pieces. Straight up. That was... Who was that? And then me and Becky being like, hey, we have a normal relationship of peers. We're new. Did you see Jessica Biel there? Was she... No. I think we were in one section and then there was a mega VIP section around another area where Jimmy Fallon was sitting and at one point the stage took off and flew over the audience which is, I'm not exaggerating. Wow. And it flew... Justin Timberlake flew to Jimmy Fallon and made fun of him for being drunk. That's insane. Really? Yeah. He was like, hey, hashtag wasted buddy and then Fallon got on a chair and waved at her. It was ridiculous. Yeah. It sounds like a hallucination. Huh? That sounds like a hallucination. No, it was real. I mean the whole thing felt like a hallucination. Right. I mean I never wanted to leave. And so if you're in a clutch situation... The only really weird moment was when he covered Heartbreak Hotel by Elvis which just doesn't... Weird or awesome? It was off. Yeah. He was like, this is a song from the south where I'm from and everyone was like, cool. And then it was Heartbreak. And it was like, I like Elvis. I'm an Elvis fan. I know how to play Heartbreak Hotel because it has two chords. But that's pretty much the end of where I think the relevance of... Did he dance like Elvis? He did. He tried. He tried to dance to the number. Which is totally in his wheelhouse. Yeah. I mean that... I just think he ran out of songs. He was like, here's a bunch of hits. Here's a weird deep cut from the second 2020 experience which he didn't buy. And now I'm gonna play Poison by Belvedere DeVoe because I'm out of... Did he do a lot of in sync or just solo stuff? No. There was no in sync. Really? Do you think that's a licensing issue? No, because he played... He played something else that I totally forgot the name of. But he took a lot of photos. Yeah. He crossed the streams. That was good. But he took a lot of photos. And I will say the 5S camera in that environment, not necessarily workable. Really? What would you rather have there? Because I couldn't stop it down far enough. So he was wearing a white jacket and the stage was totally dark and there was like a thousand watt lights on him. So he was just glowing the whole time. Yeah, but short of an SLR. I mean, what are you gonna do? I don't know. Look, I just wanted to capture the moment. You wanted a 1020 is what you wanted. I think a 1020 would have blown out. I mean, like... You can't spot meter a 1020, can you? Some deep camera memory. You probably can. I mean, like ProCam is a pretty hardcore app that I haven't used. I bet that maybe... Anyway. Well, it was amazing. I thought your video was fun. Yeah, it was good. I should have given it to people to play. No, look, I'm just saying I think the Nexus 5 is one of these phones where you're gonna buy it, you're gonna have it for three months, you're gonna sell and get rid of it. And I think the camera is a big piece of it. And I think the fact that it feels temporary is a big piece of it. So I think the Nexus 1... Why were we so excited about the Nexus 5? I was not. Oh, we weren't. People were really excited about it. Yeah, it was highly anticipated. Why was that? It was just leaked to hell and back. And I think that builds really a lot of hype. Well, it's also like a Google phone, you know? Like it's the closest counterpoint that the universe has to an iPhone launch. You know what I mean? Like there's no other company that kind of like approaches that level of mystique and Google kind of does. So sort of in a way. I mean, they really are actually the polar opposite of Apple, the more I think about it. But anyway, I think that's part of it. Well, and I think that, you know, based on my experience with the Nexus 4, which I thought was a great phone, like in terms of permanence... Nexus 4 is a really terrible phone. No, it was a great... It needed LTE and it had a bad camera, but in terms of like permanence as an object... And the screen had like literally zero contrast. It was like one to one contrast ratio. I had a good one. And I'm really picky about screens. Really? My screen is fine. Oh, mine is so bad. I don't know. But look, just the Nexus phone like had a design. It had like a personality. It was really cheap. Like there are reasons to be into that phone. And this phone, like all they had to do was fix the camera. That was it. If they had delivered the Nexus 4 with LTE and a better camera, people would have freaked out and they knew it. They had to know it. They got on stage and they're like, we fixed the camera. And for all the Android fan boys who are going to send me pictures of like a gas station in the bright sunshine, cool. Yes. Technology has advanced to the point where you can take a picture of a gas station in bright sunshine. But as soon as it gets to like dark and it's the sun sets on the gas station, your photo is going to look like crap. And I know that we're all out there taking photos of gas stations at sunset. I know I am. I was assuming that the sun setting on the gas station was a euphemism for something, but I wasn't sure what. And then the gas station explodes into shame. And that's you and your camera. So Adrian, what is your next phone? Because I'm getting... I don't know. Both of us have hives looking at this phone. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I should not bring it when I come on the Vergecast because it always gets a lot of attention. I mean, it is cool. I don't know. Look, it has the red accents, which I thought when the Incredible launched, I thought that was pretty dope. Maybe, should we say what phone it is? It's a Droid Incredible LTE. Yeah. Not a two. Is that the two? No, it's the next one. No. I didn't even know they made a next one. Yeah. I mean, I think it's good for a while. I'm kind of waiting for something to catch my eye. Waiting for what is the question? No, what? I want to know right now what you're waiting for. What am I waiting for? I'm waiting for another version of this phone that's a comfortable size that I guess has a better camera. So that's the thing for you. It has to be that big, right? It can't be bigger. Yeah. And that's... I mean, this is a common complaint, right? And I'll put it out there again. Like there is this stigma that a small phone can't be high end. And various companies pretend like they do small high end phones like the One Mini and the Galaxy S4 Mini, but they compromise in some ridiculous way. And this year's batch is no different. And so I wish you luck because I think you're going to have a lot of difficulty finding a 4.3 inch screen. Dude, she's just going to get an iPhone. They all do in the end. They'll get what? I don't know what that means. Other people like small phones. They'll end up with iPhones because Apple knows. Yeah. They're aware of this. Yeah. They're going to take your fingerprint too. Yep. They're going to take it. And send it to the cloud. Yeah. To the cloud, which is the government, which is the same thing. By the way, did you know somebody sent me a list of the other people the FCC follows and... Lady Gaga. Also cybersecurity, which is just at cyber. Which is incredible. I don't even know what that means. Like it's just a verified account at cyber. So cool. With only 13,000 followers. Yeah. No, they're definitely chasing you down, man. They're just watching you. I'm following cyber. That's a list of people who you think they're going to follow you back. They're going to DM cyber. Yeah. Learn how to secure all your electronic devices. That's terrible. Should we talk... We should talk about EverPix. Yes. Because it was amazing. Amazing piece. And also there's a song. There is now a song, which I think is queued up. It is queued up. So Adrian, do you want to walk us through what happened with EverPix? Did you read... Did you... Casey Story. Yeah. Let's see if I got it right. EverPix was originally a service that I didn't use, but people really loved it. But a lot of people loved it. I signed up for it once. And how much was it? $5 a month? Yeah, something in ridiculously cheap, yeah. But still, $5 is not $0, which other photo services cost. So people were really into it and they just couldn't... It sounds like it just came down to they couldn't get more investment. And their investors were saying like, oh, we don't see how this is going to be a billion dollar business. Which is like what the investors need in order to meet their marks, I guess. But you could still... It kind of sucks because you could see how an investment from somebody who was expecting a lower return could have really paid off if they had just lowered their standards for what success would be. If you could just have a service that had like, I don't know, like 10,000, 50,000 really dedicated users who paid five or 10 bucks a month, why isn't that a business? Well, how long was it until Amazon turned its first profit? It's like 2004, 2005 or something like that. Imagine if like in 1997, investors said, all right, well, there's no way you're making money anytime soon, goodbye. Well, it wasn't just that they didn't think they would make money soon, it was that they didn't think they would ever make a billion dollars, which they were probably right about. Like it probably had limited appeal and it just kind of sucks that they didn't have another option for being able to go on. And we know from Justin Timberlake that a billion dollars is cool. Yeah. And that's really how they all make... Yeah, that's the investment philosophy of most of the... So I used EverPix, I had it. I was going to be all set to be really into it. And I did the thing where you download it and it's on your computer and you have to let it run all night to upload all your photos and it emails you and it's like, a year ago today. I sucked a year ago today, which is a real problem with all those services. Yeah. You know what time up is? A nonstop collection of embarrassments. Like why on this day was I taking a picture of a Diet Coke can? Because that's what I was always doing. That was cool. And it had the sense that it was going to work and do something. And it had all these algorithms where it'll show you interesting stuff. But I never saw... It's like, you know what the other option is? Is Google+. And you can just bang everything up to Google+, and it's free. And what I don't understand is everybody I know who is really into EverPix kept on saying Apple needed to buy it. And the guy used to work at Apple. And I just don't know. It's the one piece of Casey story that I think was there. Why didn't they go to Apple? Did that just go nowhere? Was Apple ever interested? Because if you look at PhotoStream and what they're doing with all that stuff, it's a gigantic mess. And Apple buys millions of tiny companies. Right. It's like one every three weeks was on their last call. Which is like... Wow, really? One every three to four weeks. And most of them just get absorbed into the ether, right? But they help make something better. How many does Google buy? I don't know. Quite a few. It's a lot. Yeah. I mean, this is like the valley, right? You start a crappy company, you prove out the fact that you can build something, and then you're like, hey, buy me. And then it happens. But I just... Apple's buying it because they need talent. If you look at where Apple's really buying, it's like they're buying against web services, they're buying against internet stuff because they need to get better at it. They need to bring in the talent. And it's like, are you convinced that you have the right talent building photo stream? Because I'm not. It's great. I use it. It works. It does a thing where I take a picture on my iPhone and some time later it shows up on my computer. That's great. But something about that feels very analog and... Not analog. Something about that feels very old. It feels very like I'm waiting for something to go to a hard drive at my house instead of a hard drive on Apple's much more secure data server that is rigorously maintained. As opposed to me where I'm like, let's see what porn websites have irises today. And it's like, I'm definitely gonna lose all my photos. I don't do that. You might do that. Hi mom. Hello wife. What Evan just trolled me from the great beyond. Did everybody just see zombie Evan's photo bomb here? What is this? I don't know how it went in my hand. Oh, in the multicolor light. That's pretty tricky. What is happening back there? I don't know. Look, the EverFix story was incredible. Casey did just an amazing job getting in there. Juicy, scoopy. I just feel bad. It was depressing in that it really drives home the point that your product doesn't just have to be good to be successful, which is tragic. At the end of the day, in an innovation economy, you wanna believe in your heart of hearts that you just have to make an awesome product and everything will fall into place. This proves that that's not the case. People are definitely sending me like fakes Nexus 5 photos now. Somebody just sent me like a quasar. I don't know what he's talking about. I think it was like Nexus 5. No, you didn't. That didn't happen. Oh, they're gonna troll me so bad now. Why did I engage this? Somebody just asked me Nexus 5 or Moto X? I think everybody in our staff has settled on the Moto X. Yeah, I'd say Moto X. I think Josh is very settled on Moto X. He's very fond of it. It's great phone. What a miserable camera. Yeah, yeah, although it got a little better with that firmware update. Yeah. I know, man. If you want an Android phone, you want a great camera, it's like you're stuck with the GS4. Well, one option, I can't remember who brought this up. That's even like... It might have been Vlad. You duct tape a 1020 to the back of your Android phone. Yeah. This is like when the iPhone was first coming out and people were like, the best phone you can get right now is an iPod duct taped to a Razr. Yeah, yeah. It's true. What else is there? There's lots. Oh, there's an iPad sitting here. Yes. You reviewed the iPad Air. I did review the iPad Air. Tell us about the iPad Air. So, here's the thing with it. It's an iPad. No, that's it. It's an iPad. It very much is a gigantic iPad mini, which is cool if you're into the iPad mini, but that's exactly what it is. It has the same screen. It is looks... It's in space gray now, which is nice. It's very handsome. I'm going to buy one because I'm a big iPad person. How's it doing for scratches? It's fun. I mean, the back, it's a little fingerprinty. It's remarkably small and light. If you were a mini person and you never got a big iPad because you're like, oh, that's way too big, you should reconsider and hold one in your hands. But it is $100 more than the mini with Retina. Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying if you were attracted to a bigger screen. The thing about the mini, the new mini with Retina is that it has the same processor. It will have the same caliber of display. Actually, a slightly better display because the pixel needs to be higher, which I know that Paul Miller and I are very concerned about. It'll be great. That'll be a great product. This is a great product. Here's the problem. iOS 7 on the iPad, kind of junky. Just kind of junky. Just not there. Janky even? No. I'm pretty sure I put that in the style guide. It's like a big no, no. Nothing can be janky. Welcome to no, no town, Adrienne. God, I'm really sorry I said that. This is what my managing editor said to me today. I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad. I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad. I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad. I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad. I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad. I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad. I've always been an effective leader, effective leadership in no, no town by Nila Patel. It's true. Nila manages The Verge like a preschool. It is a preschool. I always think of The Verge as a collection of weirdos and I just have to keep the weirdos safe and then they'll do really weird things. Make sure they don't hurt themselves or others. Did you eat your cookies? Did you spill juice on the ground? Did you take your nap? God, we should have nap time. We really should. If we had nap time, I'd have done it. If we had nap time every day, it would be incredible. Then we all woke up and said whatever weird nap things. The site would just go down and be replaced by a sign that said, it's nap time. Please check back at four o'clock. They're like little Z's, like a little animation. Check back in 15 minutes. Wait, so am I the only one who has really weird nap dreams? I have particularly weird, like when I take a nap, weird shit happens in my mind. I wake up and I think it's real for about 10 minutes. So I think at the end, well, I'm assuming everybody else doesn't have this because that might be crazy, but if everybody else, like we had nap time every day and everybody else just published like whatever. Basically I want the Verge to be a dream journal. There might be a place for, let's put it this way. If we had a, if we- We can have a dream vertical. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. Fox dreams. Dan, you got a text message. Yeah, Dan, come get your phone. They're in the car. So question, iPad Air. Yeah. Do you miss Touch ID? No, God, no. It's useless. You and Dan, man, with the Touch ID. I mean, I use it. Hey, look, check it out. I did a thing. It's great. It's the best. It is the best thing Apple has done in the last decade. It crashes all the time. Like three times a day. What do you mean crash? Like from what I am told, springboard on the iPhone is crashy and iOS 7 on it, particularly on the 5S. So in the background, springboard will crash out and then it'll take Touch ID with it. And so then I'm trying to unlock my phone and I'm just there like an idiot, just quietly holding my thumb on my phone, waiting for something good to happen. I think you might just have a weird thumb because it never crashes for me. No, many, many people have. I'm just saying. I don't have a weird thumb, first of all. And even if I did, I would suggest to you, sir. This is actually the second conversation Chris and I were in today about weird thumbs. That's true. We learned that Vince Vaughn has a weird thumb, which I didn't know. Yeah, but my thumb is a normal thumb. Vince Vaughn, whatever man, whatever's going on with his fingers is cool. What's springboard? Springboard is the appy thing. He's not lying. It is the appy thing. It's the home screen. It's the home screen. It's the app that runs the home screen or system process or whatever you want to call it. So no, I've been told that, you know, the appy thing. Now I've been told that it crashes in the background. I tweeted about it and people are like, yeah, it happens to me all the time. Also, it's fundamentally useless. It does one thing. It unlocks your phone. It does it really well. Great. But you know what also does a good job of unlocking anything like typing in the code or not having a, like, you know, like I, it just doesn't bother me. So I will say, when it does other stuff, maybe it'll bother you. I will say this, uh, typing in a code to unlock my phone bothers me far less than the iPhone than it does on most Android phones because the screen is larger. So I'm like, I have to reposition the phone to get my thumb across to the other side of the screen. Whereas the iPhone is small enough so I can just keep my hand and phone in one place. This is like the ultimate first world problem. I'm sorry. Yeah. Um, look, I like that idea. It does seem like, so how necessary is it to password protect your phone? Very necessary. Very necessary. Why aren't you connected to our company's email? It's extremely necessary. My phone is never out of my, that's what they all say until you feel like there's a really obvious to what you're saying. Where I was going to go with this is that it's, it's not crucial now, but very soon it will be crucial because you'll be paying with your phone. You'll be, you'll have your social security number on your phone. If you got my phone, you could go on like an Amazon rampage. Like you just do it. You could buy a bunch of stuff in the Amazon app on my phone. Stay the hell away from me. You're lying eyes. Then it's going to go to your house. Huh? Then it's going to go to your house. That's true. Um, well, I don't have it. I don't have any financial information on my phone. That's what they all say until all of a sudden you're compromised. Yeah, we're not. Wait, how there's no way they all say I don't have any financial information on my phone until the day they're compromised. And they're like, wait a minute. I did have financial information. It's the same tragic story over and over again. Same tragic illogical story over and over and over again. So yeah, there's an argument for having a password on your phone. I don't think it's essential. I think it's going to be essential soon. You are definitely crazy. And I'm definitely telling you in this preschool, we put passwords on our phones. Like, no, you have to have a pass. And it's fine. Touch ID is great. I'm saying on the iPad, like typing, like the number of times that I unlock my phone today is like an order of magnitude higher than the number of times I unlock my iPad. Right? Like I use my iPad and I'm like, I'm using it. So I got my phone stolen once and they did not look at my email. I actually kept the service on because I thought it would help find the phone, which it did. NYPD ended up calling them and trapping them. They like texted and said like, this is my phone. Like I'll give you 200 bucks to get it back. And then they like met up and then the cops arrested them. I have two questions about this. One. Anyway, so do you want to know what they did do with my phone? Yeah. And then I have two questions. Look at porn. Yeah. What else would you do? So like that, that's what people do when they steal phones. They don't go into your email or go on an Amazon shopping spree. Now I have, now I have three questions. I have another set of questions. So one, the NYPD helped you. Two, they used the dumbest gambit in the history of like cop gambits and that succeeded. Yeah. Okay. Three, you believe that all people just look at porn on phones. Yeah. Just criminals. Just criminals. Yeah. You have evidence. What evidence do you have? Uh, I don't know. I've lost a lot of phones. Like, and did anybody go on an Amazon shopping spree? No, cause he couldn't unlock my phone. Oh, right. Yeah. I mean, I once I, one time I watched my phone just sort of drive away in Las Vegas. Like, was it like on top of the car? Was it on top of the cab? No, no, no. It was like on find my phone. I just like watched it leave. I think I remember you were laying this story to me wearing sunglasses, just looking. Worse for the wear from Las Vegas international airport. Yeah. The Karen, uh, the morning after CES ended. No. Uh, and Nina lost a phone too. Oh, and uh, Leo lost a phone. Leo, Leo lost a phone. Everyone. The leo phone, uh, when we got back was not like we, uh, a group of bros had acquired the phone and we went to their bro hotel to. Bro tell. Bro tell. We went to the bro tell. Take a bro to a bro tell. To talk to the bros. And they were like, I just looked at like a complete mess. And they were like, are you, are you sure it's your phone? I was like, just whatever you want. Like, we talked to a lady on the other one. They called it. I was like, ah, they were sad. You weren't a lady. I mean, yeah. Well, you know, I think they were also sad that I smelled like a hobo. See, this is when bros are sad that you smell like a hobo. That when you lose your phone, two things happen. Either somebody brings it back to you or they're a bad person and they look at porn on it. And then you have to get the police involved. Those are the two possibilities. Yeah. And the cops have to come because there's no other way to look at porn. I called the police. But on a stolen phone. Uh, so Aaron tells me, uh, uh, told me, so two things. First of all, we should talk about this breaking news. Evan tells me that a star Wars episode, uh, seven is con is confirmed for December 18th, 2015, which is not Memorial day weekend, which is weird for a star Wars movie. Yeah. Uh, this is breaking news. It's live on the verge right now. Uh, check it out from our own Brian Bishop. I'm very concerned about this movie. As you should be. Uh, there, there's like this magical chair thing going on with the, uh, with the directors and writers, magical chair, musical chair. Thank you. That's what it's called. I mean, magical chairs definitely like what the predators play with the children instead of musical chairs. And they look at porn on stolen. Hang on kids like, yeah, right. There's the artful Dodger. He's out stealing phones. Look at porn on and the rest of the children are stuck inside the warehouse, like magical chairs, a terrifying vision of, of, of reality in New York city. Uh, don't bring your kids here. But what I wanted to say is that Aaron, uh, at mobile Congress two years ago had his phone pickpocketed too. Uh, and there was no porn being looked at on that phone as far as I know. Because the cops somehow got the phone back from the pickpocketer and called his girlfriend and he got the phone back. What are these cops doing? They're constantly swooping into rescue phones. Yeah. It's a thing. Robbed in Las Vegas. You what? I have to stop getting robbed in Las Vegas. Yeah. I was making his cops like, well, we all have stories. It's Vegas. What do you expect? And then they rob you. One time a hooker robbed me in Las Vegas. It's a true story. I think, uh, um, just putting it out there. Just a thing that happened to me. It's really weird to me that this movie is not coming out on Memorial Day weekend. That's the first one ever that has not come out. I think it's not coming out, come out on Memorial Day. Um, can I, we should finish talking about this iPad. We've gotten fully off. Yes. Yes. Um, so here's my theory about the iPad right now. I feel like they rushed out iOS seven. They rushed, they obviously rushed out super fast. I don't think it's a finished operating system by any stretch of the imagination. I think there are, uh, lots of things on the iPhone that are like kind of broken. Um, I'm assuming this happens to everyone. If you, there's, there's a way you can open iPhone app where the, um, yeah. I can swoop up at you. If you do it, it's like five times out of 10, the animation gets stuck and there's like a little cloud. Does this ever happen to you, Chris? No. So if you search for an app that's on your home screen and you open it in the spotlight, the home screen icons like fly you and then the app opens. Yeah. So every, like five times out of 10 that animation gets stuck and there's like a little cloud of like the word photos that like lives in the corner of your screen. It's like the least Apple-y thing in the world that like this animation doesn't complete itself on time. I've never seen that once and it's possible. Is it your weird thumb? It's my weird thumb, obviously. Maybe it's just that I don't use universal search like ever. Oh yeah. I open everything with spotlight. So I see it all the time. Uh, so like anyway, but I, for the, by and large, like whatever, like the iPhone was finished, right? There are still like some weird twer, like tweaks they need to make and like quirks about it. Um, and then the iPad is like, you didn't finish this at all. You just like scaled up like things on the iPad. Like what does Apple say about the iPad? Like our apps are better. They're optimized for the iPad. And then all kinds of stuff is just blown up iPhone stuff. So like notification center is the blown up iPhone notification. It makes no sense. It's like, shouldn't this be more useful than the iPhone? Uh, Siri is just blown up iPhone Siri. And it's like, this should be way more useful or like on all the time or like doing something else in this form factor than just being gigantic iPhone Siri. Um, this far icon is terrible. I'm just saying it. I'm going to say it again. I put it in the review. It was, it was a joke. It's a con, but because you've trolled me so consistently, it is no longer a joke. Uh, and it is now how I feel in my heart, which is actually how I feel in my heart because it's terrible. Uh, and it's just buggy all over the place. Um, I don't know. Like, so it's, the air is great. It's the iPad. iPads are really good. I think the air is the best iPad they've made because it's smaller and lighter, but iOS seven is a mess, especially on the iPad. Yeah. I mean, I haven't used it on an iPad, so I can't speak to that. I think they were just in a rush. Like they're just in some weird crazy rush. And I don't know why it feels very on Apple to be in this rush. Yeah. Well they have this cadence, right? Like it would have looked weird if it hadn't come out until 2014, right? If I was seven had been pushed in 2014. Yeah, that would have been weird and would have delayed the five S and the five C presumably. So that would have been a mess, but I have to say the same is true with a Mavericks. I mean Mavericks has been a nightmare for me. You think so? Yeah. It's been fine for me. It is the worst thing ever. Every time time machine kicks in, I lose my internet connection until it's done. It's a nightmare. Why? Wait, doesn't on that computer? Yes. On this one, every time time machine turns on the internet connection goes away until it's done. That's problem one. Problem two, and this is a big one. I'd say about once a day it just shuts off in the middle of whatever I'm doing and won't turn back on until I unplug my second monitor. I think maybe you might have a hardware issue. I'm just putting that one out there. I don't think that's a good. I think if once a day everybody with a second monitor had their computer turning off. I'm just, well, I'm blaming Mavericks. I mean, I've seen people blame Mavericks for everything, but I have no problems with it. No, I was telling Phil Nickinson of Android Central, he was saying something was going haywire in Mavericks, and I responded that it's come down to blame Obama and blame Mavericks. Those are the two things you're allowed to blame for every single problem that's going on right now. Yeah. We'll see what happens. I mean, like, so I think Mark Herman was saying that, like, if you look at historical trends, point one will come out in three weeks. So we'll see. We'll see. I don't know what you do about the iPad here though. I just think like they, this is going to sound really weird to say because they're going to sell a ton of these iPads. But I think if they want to grow the iPad as a thing in the world, they need to start thinking that as some, like that version of iOS that's on the iPad needs to become meaningfully different than the version that's on the iPad. Well, you were convinced before the event that they were going to do pro. They should do a pro and they should, they should figure out how to make a real keyboard work with this thing. But, but let me ask you this. Say they come out with a 799 or 899 iPad Pro. You can pair a Bluetooth keyboard. How do you position that against 11 inch and 11 inch MacBook Air? How do you do it? You just do it. What do you mean? Who cares? The, the, the, the prices are too close. I don't think people walk in the store wondering like what thousand dollars am I spending in the Apple store. No, no, you do. No, you absolutely do. And here's why, because every time you go to an airport, count the number of people who are using an iPad in a metal Logitech keyboard dock that looks exactly like a laptop. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They want a little Apple laptop. That's what they want. But they're not buying the 11 inch Air. They want an iPad. They're not buying a Surface either. Yeah, but, but I think that's because the price is noticeably different. Like if you, if you positioned an iPad pro at the same price point as MacBook Air, that becomes a much harder choice to make. Why? They're already making it. Not, not the same price. I mean, I'm just, I mean, maybe 64 gig LTE. What's that? It's 120. You can buy a $930 iPad. Yeah, fair enough. I don't know who does that. So that iPad, by the way, people, that's the one that people talk about is like being competitive with the laptops. I think that iPad is like the only people who buy that one are like rich guys who want to buy the most expensive one. And like, like photo and video pros who are like out in the field with like a bunch of stuff to show people. It's just too much storage. That, that thing is like an accessory to like a workstation. Yeah. It is not like a primary computer. Right. And I think they need to figure out how to make this thing the primary computer for people. And I don't think they have, they're not anywhere near that. Yeah. Like giving away pages for free is great, but you know what they had to do to make pages like. Not suck. Well, you know, they, they made pages suck on the Mac so that it would match how much it sucks on the iPad. Yeah. And that's like, don't do that. Like do something better than that. Yeah. And I like, I just think that that's where they are. It's a great iPad. They're going to sell a lot of them. I'm going to buy one because it's the best tablet you can get. And the mini is probably people are going to buy the hell out of the mini because everybody likes mini better. But they're nowhere near the idea that they're going to reset computers with that thing. Yeah. I don't know. Do you have any friends who went to college with just an iPad? No. Do you even, would you even think of doing such a thing? No. Do you use any tablet at all? Do you, do you not like the fact that you don't have one? Because before I had a tablet, I did not think that I wanted one, but then once I got it, it was like, oh yeah, this is what I want. Yeah. I think that's probably me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a couch device, right? Like. Yeah. It's, it's, it's great. And there's all kinds of stuff you can do with it. And I, I, when I go home, I try to work on the iPad because it keeps me from working too hard. For me, that's the Chromebook. Yeah. Hmm. I would. What? Like a Chromebox? John's just trolling from beyond. Yeah. I don't know. If you have a desktop, John's asked me into my ear, do you have a desktop, the iPad? No, it's still not perfect. Cause there's, it's still going to keep me from working too hard. I'm still not fully productive on it because it's still not smart enough to do the things I wanted to do. And that's great. I think for a lot of people that's, but even my parents, they have a desktop and they use the iPad all around the house and then they want to like look at a bunch of photos. They go, you know, I want to do this. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that.
 Hello. You've made a terrible mistake. This is the Virgcast. No, hello. Welcome to the
 Virgcast. It's the week of November something, November 4th. I am extremely prepared for
 today's show and I have with me Adrian Jeffries. And my name is Chris Ziegler. Shocking surprise,
 Chris Ziegler. You may know me from a little program known as The Virg Mobile Show. It
 airs every Tuesday. I highly recommend it. Yeah. It's a good time. It's a good hour and
 a half. I've heard. I've heard that there was a lengthy digression on kale this past
 week in which one of the listeners was almost murdered by a saw. I'm not joking. That's
 a story. That's actually a story that I heard. Well, we, so generally Vlad and I get into
 a debate about vegetables. I mean, and it's not something, it's not something that I'm
 trying to do. It just happens. Vegetables, I believe are the oldest mobile technology.
 You can take them anywhere. Yeah. I've been told by the producer that I'm not speaking
 to my mic, so I apologize. Is this, is this better? Is this better? Hello. I've been told
 by the producer something, so in return I will troll the producer directly to the microphone.
 Anyway, we're here. There's a lot going on. This is obviously our show where we cover
 technology, technology culture, vegetables, vegetables, really just a wide range of foods
 and things that have lights. So big news already today. It's happening right now as we speak.
 People who work at Twitter got rich and they are getting richer by the minute as far as
 I can tell. Yes. I actually don't know what the stock is at now, but Twitter's IPO is
 today. It started at 26, which yesterday led to an incredible wave of asinine stories about
 whether it would be $25, $27 or $26 with a lot of debate and punditry about the relative
 value of each of those numbers, which was wonderful and I'm glad that I read any of
 it. Experts say 26 is worth less than 27. What are you doing? Do you guys want to hear
 a fun fact about stocks? It used to be that if a symbol for a company had four letters,
 it meant that it was on NASDAQ. Oh yeah. And if it had a different number of letters, it
 meant that it was on the New York Stock Exchange. But as ticker symbols became something you
 could negotiate on, like vanity ticker symbols became a thing, they dropped that. And so
 now you can no longer tell. Twitter is TWTR. That would have been NASDAQ before, but they
 debuted on the New York Stock Exchange. Oh, young rebels. If they were ballers, they would
 have taken T from AT&T. AT&T has T? Yeah. It would be cool if they had the ampersand.
 The oldest companies in the world have one or two letters on the stock exchange. And
 Pandora. Their P? Pandora has P. That's amazing. Well, Pandora is 125 years old. Pandora was
 founded by Franklin Roosevelt. I feel like a company could just buy some older company
 just to be baller and get their ticker symbol. That's actually what happened to AT&T. AT&T
 is currently constituted as not AT&T. It's SBC, which was Ameritech. They broke up AT&T
 into a thousand pieces and then they reconstituted themselves into SBC. And then SBC bought AT&T
 and they're like, screw this other brand, we'll be AT&T again. And now they're AT&T
 again. Have you seen the Stephen Colbert thing about that? No. You guys should Google it
 right now. It's like one of the most amazing 90 seconds ever on television. Oh, it just
 goes in the circle? Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. I mean, look, why wouldn't you want
 the AT&T brand name, which stands for nothing but reliable customer service and excellent
 signal quality throughout America? So Twitter's apparently at 4,494 right now. I just saw
 45. Which means that as of this moment, at Williams is worth $11 billion precisely. Yeah.
 No, there's like, okay, so there's a ton of Twitter stuff going on, right? 4510 is what
 it opened at. So people made a lot of money, which is in stark contrast to what happened
 with Facebook where it went down and then like the servers all crashed. Right. Like
 little old like grannies around America were like driven, like throwing themselves. One
 thing that was really interesting about the Facebook IPO was that it was a record setter
 in terms of volume. Like the number of people buying and selling shares, which I don't know
 exactly what that means. I guess there was a lot of disagreement on whether it was worth
 anything. Yeah. There were like an unprecedented number of people who thought it was worth
 nothing and an unprecedented number of people who thought it was worth a fortune. And I'm
 kind of curious about what the volume was like for Twitter, although I don't think that
 that's been published anywhere yet. Well, I think the thing with Facebook was like definitely
 a huge swath of like regular people thought it was their opportunity to be part of the
 next Google. Right. Because it's a big Internet company they heard about, you're probably
 using it and people know that if you invest in Google at the right time, you got rich.
 And I think that was real for Facebook. I don't think that's the case for Twitter. Either
 their whole process has been really quiet and well managed and nobody's like, there
 are no like stunning revelations about Twitter in the mix like there were with Facebook.
 They're run by a Michigan graduate, which is always a good thing. Yeah. He used to be
 a standup comedian. So really that degree really helped him out right after graduation.
 It's true by the way, Dick Casull used to be a standup comedian. Credits Second City
 in Chicago for teaching him everything he knows. Again, not a great indictment of the
 University of Michigan, but I guess it works. He's got the logo there. But Twitter doesn't
 have these problems, right? Like people know what Twitter is, they kind of know where the
 business is going. There's no like stunning last minute, by the way, all of our users
 are on mobile and we haven't put ads on that yet. So we don't know. Right. And there was
 also a much shorter lead time for how long everybody knew. You know, like the exact date
 wasn't like with Facebook, everybody knew it was coming much further in advance. Right.
 And I zoned out a second ago when you were talking about Google, but like the Google
 IPO and I'm going to get out of my depth here. The Google IPO was interesting because they
 designed it so that there wouldn't be a bump on the first day. Right. Okay. You said that
 already. I didn't say it already. Oh, okay. You just weren't paying attention. I should
 have lied. So that didn't happen with Facebook and it did happen with Twitter. Well, Google
 IPO is like super engineered, right? But like people who bought into it, not that first
 day bump, which made people rich, but people who like bought in early are obviously very
 rich now. And I think that's what it was with Facebook was like, this is my opportunity.
 This is like my golden ticket. I think that's why a lot of like mom and pop investors bought
 it. I just, I think, and this is what, whatever IPO stuff aside, this is actually, I think
 Twitter's big story and what Casey wrote a report about it, about their redesign, but
 the stuff they're doing, I don't think regular people know what Twitter is. I don't think
 they know how to use it. I don't know what it's for. And I think it's really hard if
 you're a normal person to sign up for Twitter and do anything with it. Twitter quitters,
 right? Like it's a real thing. Like there's a real thing or is that a rhyme? Well, it's
 both, it's both. It's a real thing that is conveniently a rhyme. Yeah. Uh, but there's
 this whole notion of people who sign up and realize that they don't understand what it
 is or how to use it or why nobody's following them and then they quit. Right. And then go
 back to Facebook. So yeah, I mean, that's not going to think for them. Oh man, there's
 Silk Road news happening right now. What's happening? I gotta go. I don't know. I don't
 know yet. Where can you go? Isn't this a virtual community? Like I have to go somewhere else
 and use this laptop. What's happening? Um, Russell's about to inform me. We're breaking
 news. Can we get like a scrolling breaking news thing on the screen right now? Oh, it's
 about the new Silk Road, the 2.0 Silk Road. There's a new Silk Road. Yeah. Yeah. For all
 your drug buying needs. Why isn't it called Silk Road Reloaded? That's the obvious name.
 It's like really obvious. It's a picture of a syringe. It's like, so it's a gift of a
 syringe. Yeah. It's slowly filling up again. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's the purest heroin you
 can buy. Well, their, their competitor was called black market reloaded. So that could
 be, it could be brand confusion there. Right. Yeah. It's dilution. You don't want to file
 that lawsuit. Yeah. All right. Anyway, what were we talking about? Twitter? I mean, I'm
 always talking to Twitter. How much Twitter do you own? Zero Twitter. I own zero. Do you
 guys remember when, um, Justin Bieber accounted for 3% of Twitter's servers? Yes. I mean,
 that was when Twitter was running on like four Mac minis and went down every other day.
 Do you think that he also accounts for 3% of Twitter's investment? Do you think that
 he's a billionaire now? No, that's what I was saying before. That's how it works. Like
 you get an, a share for every Twitter follower you have. Well then I'm, I'm retired. Yeah.
 Then I have 1400 shares. It's the best. Um, no, look, I like Twitter's redesigned this,
 this new version of their app, which is designed to make it easier to do stuff. I'm accidentally
 following like every single person who tweets at me cause it's the follow button and the
 timeline is right where I scroll. Yep. So I, I favorite literally every tweet now in
 accident. Yeah. Like every tweet you're turning into Mike Isaac. Yes. That's exactly like
 everything that they're doing, like redesigning it. They're making it friendlier. They're
 going to like make the ads more integrated. There's like huge pictures everywhere and
 they're turning it into Facebook. There's like no doubt in my mind that that's the way
 they need to grow in this. Well that sucks. Well, but like, do you, like, do you want
 to run a business that's predicated on like celebrities and media people tweeting at each
 other? Cause I don't think that you can grow. Like there is a finite number of celebrities
 big enough to like be meaningful on Twitter. Well, I will say that about 80% of entertainment
 and E and us weekly stories now involve a tweet. Yeah. So they've definitely cracked
 that market wide open, whatever that market is. Yeah, but Twitter doesn't make any money
 from that. Like when entertainment. Yeah. But like when entertainment tonight like goes
 on television with a tweet and they have like their own big shiny TV ads next to it, like
 coming up next, guess what Kanye tweeted today? It's like, guess who didn't make any money
 from this? Twitter.com. Like it doesn't matter. Like they need to figure out how to get all
 that action happening on Twitter. And I don't think that happened. Right. I mean, they've
 been trying, they've been doing a few weird experiments lately, right? They have the,
 the magic racks, which is now like a real service. It's baked into a magic racks. Yeah.
 REC. Magic racks too. No magic racks is bet is baked into the latest version of the app,
 right? If I'm not mistaken, whatever. All I know is that this app is the ugliest app
 in the world now. And event parent is the other one. I don't know what that is. Parent
 does not work yet. What is that? It's supposed to be breaking news alerts, but it just doesn't
 really, it hasn't broken any news in days. No, but, but you know, I couldn't know about
 the IPO. Did you get that? But look, I can't remember who made this point on Twitter, but
 somebody made the, I think salient point that magic or not magic racks event parent is not
 for people like you and I it's for like the normals who they want to use Twitter as a
 news source and don't care if they get their quote unquote breaking news, 50 minutes late,
 you know,
 Twitter needs a Butler. Think about this. Imagine this. Jeez. Asked you. Now you sign
 up for Twitter and like a, like a Butler arrives and he's like a physical Butler, shows up
 on your screen and he's like, what are you interested in? What are you, who are you?
 You're describing flippy. You realize, you know, it has like a little conversation with
 you about your, your needs and wants and interests and it curates a, like a selection of things
 for you to follow. You're describing this really creepy hybrid of like a Amazon mayday
 and, and clippy. Yeah. It's Amazon mayday, clippy, and then like the, the scariest like
 user profiling, like humanly possible. And then that's what normal people need to make
 effective use of Twitter. Let's get on this. You're actually right. Unfortunately, right.
 It's like you, you show up and it's like, please let me just log into one web page.
 Like go to this webpage. It's full of like tracking cookies and it will construct a profile
 for you. Yeah. It is still like pretty complicated. Like Twitter almost has its own like very
 limited little programming language with hashtags and at replies that somebody who's totally
 new to it, it's still really confusing and God help the normals. If they find weird trip
 Twitter, then it's game over. Right. Yeah. Like, right. Or I mean all that is like find
 most of our staff. Right. I mean like that's kind of, it's just out there. It's, it's waiting
 for you. How big is weird Twitter? I feel like it's just some people in Brooklyn. It's
 like 20 people. Yeah. It's not that big. And like there's somebody who I think is like
 huge and then it turns out they have like 4,000, 5,000 followers. How many followers
 does drill have? Like, no, it's like over 20,000 I think. Really? Whatever. Here's what,
 I mean, I just think like 73,000, 73,000. Yeah. Drill. Nevermind. Weird Twitter is real.
 Weird. No, I mean Buzzfeed keeps running incredible lengthy like thought pieces on
 weird Twitter and what it means. And it's like, I don't, well, New York Times tried
 to bust open weird Twitter, right? Like a, yeah, a couple of months ago. In the Sunday
 style section. Oh my God. No, it was in the, it was in the wedding section. It was like
 weird Twitter was married to me. The bride attended Brown University. Um, I don't know.
 That's the only New York Times joke I have. Uh, we done talking about Twitter? Here's
 what I know. Your app is ugly. Fix it. Do that. Your stock would go up. Probably get
 richer, Jack. Think about it. It just, what should I use? Should I use tweet bot? What
 do you use? You have an Android phone. I use official app and food suite. Official, official
 app right here. No, but it's ugly. You just high five for like making a bad choice. Right.
 But like, look at the end of the day, Twitter has said it time and time again that people
 shouldn't make third party apps and I kind of believe them. Like at some point they're
 going to be like, okay, our, our API isn't sending out ads because we don't know how
 to do that without you filtering them out. So you just, we're just going to shut off
 the fire hose and you have to use the official app. So I don't want my heart to be broken
 in 2014 is what I'm saying. I'm just going to stay on the official app. You're just going
 to let your heart be broken every time you look at the horrific nature of the current
 system. Yes, and favorite every tweet. Just why would you do that? They're like, let's
 add little buttons everywhere. That'll be great. That's what people love. You know,
 people love using when they're using their mobile phones, their gigantic thumbs, little
 tiny buttons everywhere. It's just stars all over the page. Seriously, it's like the windows
 CE of mobile apps right now. That's what you made. You made windows 95 for little screen.
 What was that Sony UMPC that opened? You know what I'm talking about? The Vio. Yes, the
 UX 70. It looked awesome. No, not the Vio P. The Vio P was just an unapologetic piece
 of crash. It was the sliding. I wrote about it. The weird Sony. We did our, when we did
 our weird Sony piece, I have a thing on it. Yeah. It's UX something. Yeah. They made that.
 That's what your Twitter app is a throwback to that thing, which is not so bad because
 that was the height of Sony's hardware powers, but software wise a disaster. Let's talk about
 the Nexus 5. Speaking of hardware. Do you like that? Just went for it. Yep. Just went
 for it. UX 280. Adrian, I want you to hold this phone because you have one of the worst
 phones ever. Too big. Too big. Take it back. Hold it some more. So Adrian has a Droid Incredible
 2 with a battery case. An enormous battery on the back of it. That's the extended battery.
 Like wouldn't you want the bulk of your phone to be screen and not like that? I mean, am
 I crazy? No, because it's just about like holding it. Like I don't want to stretch my
 fingers this way. I just want to comfortably hold a thing. Yeah. You are the person that
 I see on the subway who's holding like a shattered iPhone 4 and they seem absolutely delighted
 with it and I cannot get into their head to understand why. Cracked iPhones are chic.
 Yeah. I can see that. I get that. It makes sense. Brooklyn you mean. Yeah, whatever.
 I mean look, so I have come to the conclusion. Chris, have you played with this yet? Very
 briefly played with Dan's. So that is Dan's actually. I forgot mine at home. So I just
 stole Dan's and ran away. Thanks Dan. Thanks buddy. I've come to the conclusion that I
 truly deeply dislike that phone. That I think it feels very, very cheap and that sense of
 cheapness I think makes it feel more like a reference design. Like when you, you know
 when you go to CS or EFA or whatever and like you go into the Qualcomm booth and they're
 like look at what our new chip can do and it's like just in a totally generic case.
 Yeah. That's that. I swear to God that that's that. And we have this line in our, you know
 Dieter did, Dieter and David did a report with Matthias and like Hiroshi and Dave, like
 all the guys from Google and Matthias is like it's really serious plastic. No hardcore plastic.
 It's hardcore plastic. Yes, that is hardcore plastic. Oh God. This camera has a long history
 of taking really crappy pictures of me because it has a long history of taking really crappy
 pictures. Well, so here's, here's what I don't understand about the Nexus. There are many
 things to understand about this phone. Why are they spending so much breath talking about
 these ceramic buttons? They're just buttons. Because it's literally the only feature on
 the phone. There's nothing else to talk about. Hey, we made the back white and carved the
 Nexus logo into it. By the way, what else is there? What other hardware feature is there?
 The white on the back is exactly like the white of the One X. I don't know if you remember
 like the matte white One X. It's exactly the same. Matte has the same feel. Really? Yep.
 Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's fine. But, but you know, I was saying on Twitter yesterday,
 what Google needs to do is like I, they, they've made it very clear. In fact, Dieter's report
 really drove this home. Google is not pulling any punches about the fact that Nexus is about
 a reasonable price and that's fine. I mean, there's, I feel like they accidented into
 that last time. Yeah, but now they've like codified it with this generation of devices.
 So like, and that's fine. Like there's a place for that. But Google also needs to make a
 balls to the wall phone and like they're not doing it and no one else is going to make
 a Nexus experience phone with like the best specs. Yeah, but they have made it with the
 best specs. It has a really good screen. The camera blows. But, but yeah, but why, if you're
 Google and you know that Samsung is going to take whatever you make and like throw it
 away and build their own camera app, their own sensor, and Sony's going to do the same
 thing. HCC is going to do the same thing. Why would you spend $1 on a camera engineer?
 And that's what the story of this phone is, right? The money of this phone is they put
 it where it's going to make the biggest impact when Android goes out in the world, right?
 So KitKat is like, they've put a lot of money in KitKat. They did this new Google search
 app, which is that now actually the launcher and like Google now is like right in front
 of you. They like to be some fonts and design, like all that stuff will like propagate throughout
 the world. But the camera app is like, Samsung's like, what's this bullshit? And like throw
 it away. But, but keep in mind, this is the same company that bid Pi for Nortel's patents
 and just build four floating Google islands. So I don't put it past them to spend a few
 dollars on someone who can make a decent camera. I don't think it's like one person though.
 That's what I'm saying. I think like you have to hire like a universal camera engineer.
 Actually no, actually this, this, this whole conversation is not right. It's not that they
 need the hardware engineering. It's that they need to tell LG to put a decent camera in
 the phone.
 But isn't, I don't think like getting a camera sensor is really the problem. I think it's
 like writing the driver and the software processing and like the JPEG engine.
 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely an interplay. I mean, I don't know if, yeah, maybe the sensor
 is as good as the camera.
 The sensor in a, it's every stock Android device I've ever used, including the HTC first,
 which had the same sensor as some other camera. Miriam, who's now Pebble was telling me it's
 the same sensor in a bunch of these phones and like the software makes radical differences
 across them.
 And I'm just saying like, just like, I think the story of this phone is they make them
 cheap. They sell them like developers buy them, Google nerds buy them. We buy them.
 God only knows why I keep buying them. And, but there's no incentive to improve the camera
 because the vast majority of people buy it. The Samsung Galaxy S4 and Samsung build this
 on camera app.
 Right.
 And that's just the story of Nexus. And like they can lie to us all they want about how
 they finally fixed it. And the camera's great now, but it has never gotten better.
 And with 4.4, I think the final nail in the coffin where they've really acknowledged that
 is the fact that they've taken all of that stuff, closed source. Like it's no longer
 a stock phone. It's the Google skin on Android is the way you need to think about it. Like
 there's the Samsung skin, the HTC skin and the Google skin on top of this core. But all
 of the stuff, all the apps that are in this phone are basically closed source now. They've
 all been taken out of AOSP. Even the lock screen is gone. Like, or not the lock screen,
 the home screen.
 Yeah. But if you want to build a stock Google phone, for lack of a better word, you can
 just go do it. Can't you?
 No. It like, if you, if you get the AOSP, we get the 4.4 AOSP. It has like four apps
 in it and no launcher as I understand it. Like 4.3 is where it tops out. The Nexus 5
 launcher is custom to the Nexus 5.
 Really?
 Yep.
 So you're saying, Adrian, you're just saying no. By the way, when you're playing with the
 buttons, do you think to yourself,
 I was just going to say these, they don't even feel ceramic.
 Yeah, they don't.
 I don't know what ceramic feels like. I don't even know what it means.
 How do you not know what ceramic feels like? Do you not handle dishes ever in your life?
 I don't want it. I don't want dish material for my buttons. Why is that a good thing?
 I don't know. Maybe they made them out of like space shuttle tiles or something. I
 mean, if they're going to lie to me at the camera app, lie to me about what you made
 the buttons out of. We made it out of space shuttles. Then I would buy one. Like, I mean,
 I'd buy another one.
 That would be an easy buy. Actually, Johnny Ive is auctioning a space shuttle window as
 part of his big charity, his red auction.
 Do you get the feeling that like the reason the iPad Air design is so, like we have one
 sitting here, but the reason it's like seriously, I got pinched up. I've had many is because
 he was too busy, like, like picking out stuff around the world.
 He's like, just make it bigger.
 Yeah. He's like, bring me a collection of space shuttle windows. I'm going to die this
 Mac Pro Red. Like he's like so busy like building a table. He's like, we're not going to worry
 about this.
 He definitely spent at least six months on that. Like, there's no question about it.
 Is there anything else to talk about? We have to talk about the camera. So you have an Android
 phone.
 Yeah.
 How much do you use that camera?
 I use it.
 For things not Snapchat.
 Ooh.
 Yeah.
 Not that much.
 Right.
 Actually.
 Why is that?
 Well, I'm not on Instagram and you want me to say, cause it's a crappy camera.
 I do.
 Did you just say you're not on Instagram?
 I'm not on Instagram. That's two high fives from Chris.
 Yep.
 In one VirgCast.
 For real. And one big drink for Nila.
 Well, I want you to say cause it's a crappy camera. I mean, I know it's a crappy camera,
 but do you think it was a better camera? Did you use more?
 Yeah. Probably.
 So why did you pick a phone with a bad camera or did it was a not on the list?
 I picked this phone for one reason, which is that it's the right size.
 Yeah.
 And I didn't really think about the camera.
 Yeah.
 I used to use it more, but I don't know.
 Have you played with a Moto X?
 No.
 Cause I'm curious, you know, there's this whole new generation of phones where the bezels
 are basically not there.
 So like the phones with the big screens no longer feel as big as they used to because
 like the one X is 4.7 I think.
 What is the speed roll we're running?
 I'm pretty sure that was an access five ad and I'm pretty sure it was completely insane.
 Okay.
 Okay.
 Shaky.
 No.
 Good.
 Yeah.
 No, I was just gonna say like, you know, you can get a bigger screen now and the phone
 doesn't really feel any bigger, which is nice.
 Yeah.
 I mean, I disagree.
 I think it still feels big.
 Like to me, you have this massive battery case on the thing.
 It's big in the other direction.
 I'm just letting that one go.
 You just don't know what it's like to have tiny hands.
 I really don't.
 It's like this, this phone and the iPhone are what fit in my hand and everything else.
 But you're like, you, you, you lead an Apple free lifestyle.
 That's true.
 Yeah.
 I don't have any Apple products right now.
 I know people like you, you secretly have an iPod that you use on the train.
 I know how this works.
 Whoa.
 I do have an iPod, but it's really old and I, I like never remember to charge it.
 I mean, I have to say living an Apple free lifestyle, but still being dependent in any
 way on iTunes is like the wrong way to go.
 Like I have a bunch of Apple devices, but I never use iTunes.
 I guarantee or I'm happier about that.
 Yeah.
 Like having windows with iTunes in my life.
 Yeah.
 It's basically the worst.
 Yeah.
 Um, I remember playing with a Nexus one at CES this year.
 I think Evan brought it or something and I was, and I, you know, I remember owning the
 Nexus one.
 I thought it was like big and like great.
 The Nexus one was gigantic.
 Yeah.
 It was a gigantic phone.
 The Galaxy Nexus was huge too.
 No, but now the Nexus one is tiny.
 It's 3.7 inches.
 It was, it was, it was, it was big.
 It was just big.
 Not real.
 No, I guarantee if you, if you, if you get a Nexus, you know, is that the big, the universal
 is a spig.
 It's real big.
 If you pick up a Nexus one now, you'll be like, this is the tiniest thing I've ever
 had in my hands.
 Do you remember when the first iPhone came out and Apple used a hand models of really
 gigantic hands to make it seem small?
 Apple went through a long run of fake hands and their TV ads and if you ever noticed that
 they were fake hands, it was so creepy.
 What do you mean?
 They would use rubber hands like to be like a rubber hand holding the thing still and
 then like another hand would like use the phone and it was just terrifying.
 And that's because they wanted it to be really still and like the, the tremor of a human
 hand was too noticeable.
 Yes, but the creepiness of the rubber hand was much better.
 Now once I, once you like noticed it in those commercials, it was like, why?
 If one of those hands, if one of those fake hands ever pops up on eBay, I'm getting it
 on that.
 That's a collect.
 You're getting like an Apple.
 I'm sure there's like a vault.
 A vault of Apple hands.
 So here's, here's my, you have a Nexus one.
 There's the Nexus one.
 Look at how cute it is.
 Look at, look at that little guy and the revolution it didn't start.
 That was the, yeah, that was back in the day when we were all young and naive.
 Hey, can, remember, so remember they launched this and they said, we're going to sign up
 all the carriers and do a bunch of stuff and that didn't happen.
 Right.
 And they got sprint at the end, desperate, lovable sprint.
 Yeah.
 Who just wants to go home with you.
 Please, please take me home.
 Do you want to get married?
 Sprint, the sprint story.
 And then they couldn't do it.
 And then they, the Galaxy Nexus, they like went to Verizon, went to Verizon, but Verizon
 like screwed him over, put out a crappy version of that phone that sucked with bad software
 that was really slow.
 So that Google started giving out unlocked AT&T versions to everybody.
 The Nexus 4 obviously had no LTE.
 And then now there's this one, which is unlocked AT&T and T-Mobile.
 And Sprint.
 And Sprint.
 And Sprint?
 Mm-hmm.
 Poor desperate Sprint.
 Just please go home with me.
 And then there's the Nexus 7, which is supposed to be on Verizon, but they're not going to
 unlock it or authorize it until Kit Kat comes out.
 Do you know about this?
 Yes.
 I feel like you're, there's an epic rant coming.
 There is.
 So actually Sean Hollister and I were just talking about this last night over email.
 I've kind of, at this point I've resigned.
 I'm just completely resigned to the fact that the 700 megahertz open access provision has
 no teeth whatsoever.
 That's like useless.
 Right.
 Because theoretically this would be the point where the FCC would swoop in with its cape
 and say, Verizon, you will activate these.
 Can you DM the FCC?
 It's the only human being I know who's followed by at FCC on Twitter.
 This would be a great Twitter IPO day story.
 My concerned citizen followed by the FCC, the one man who can use this power makes it
 happen.
 I'm literally the only man with the red phone that connects directly to the FCC.
 Do you think now that, if you guys don't know this story, it's when Julie Shonokowski was
 the chairman of the FCC, I asked him after an interview, not if at FCC would follow me,
 but if they would follow my friend Chris.
 And they did it.
 In honor to which I believe Chris owes me for and will owe me for the rest of his life.
 Yes, this is true.
 My concern is that Tom Wheeler is about to shake some shit up.
 He's going to go through his first day in office.
 He's like, who are we following on Twitter?
 Who's this guy?
 He's this asshole.
 It's like the chairman of labor, or the secretary of labor, like the Department of Justice,
 Z-Power.
 Some dude.
 By the way, I shared this tidbit on the mobile show this week as well.
 Jessica Wurzel, who is one of the three commissioners of the FCC, along with Ajit Pai and Mignon
 Clyburn.
 Mignon.
 I'm switching it up a little bit.
 She is not a video of this woman pronouncing her own name.
 Anyway, Jessica Rosenwurzel is the sister of the lead singer for Guster.
 Just want to point that out and throw that out there.
 How did you find that out?
 I can't remember where I saw it and may not be true, but I've heard this.
 By the way, Googling how to pronounce.
 Were you reading the Wikipedia page for Guster?
 I may have been reading the Wikipedia page for Guster.
 I'm not admitting that, but it's possible.
 I had a friend in middle school who followed Guster around the Midwest.
 Really?
 That's claim to fame.
 Yeah.
 Her name was...
 And now joining us on the communicators this weekend for the election is FCC Commissioner
 Mignon Clyburn.
 Just say it.
 Mignon.
 Okay.
 So my revived pronunciation...
 I mean, she didn't look angry when they pronounced it that way.
 So, Chris, you actually wrote a thing.
 I did.
 About how she's the best.
 She is amazing.
 She is a wonderful human being.
 She accomplished more in her far too brief tenure at the head of the FCC than the last
 three people combined.
 Do you think that's because she knew that she was on her way out the door?
 Yeah.
 She was yellow.
 Well, no.
 She wasn't yellow.
 She wasn't yellow because...
 Is it more Yoko, you only commissioner once?
 I'm really sorry.
 I'm going to go, everybody.
 But she's going back.
 I mean, she's not leaving the FCC.
 She's still a commissioner until 2017, I think.
 So she has to live with her decisions.
 It's not like she just did whatever and left.
 Yeah, but if you were just doing whatever you wanted for six months or whatever, living
 with those decisions would be easy.
 Right.
 Like, oh, yeah, that one, that was awesome.
 Remember when I made him do whatever I wanted?
 I would definitely clear out 500 megahertz of spectrum.
 Just be like, we're auctioning this.
 Sorry about that.
 No, I mean, what was the last one she did?
 She killed a sports blackout rule.
 Yes.
 That was her last move.
 And then the next day, Wheeler was signed in.
 Right.
 And she just went for it.
 Yeah, she went for it, which was a big deal.
 Although not as big as you might hope, because it's still ultimately up to stations and...
 Basically, she just got rid of the federal rules.
 But like, individual leagues and stations can still black stuff out if they want to,
 which is great.
 Yeah, that's what you want.
 You want local teams and then local stations to be constantly colluding off the books.
 Right.
 Collusion's great.
 That's how the city runs.
 Yeah, so she did that.
 She launched two frequency... Two band auctions.
 She completed the Sprint Clearwire Softbank deal, which is basically the biggest telecom
 deal in history, probably.
 The three-way deal between those companies is insane.
 You think she really read the paperwork carefully or she was just like, look?
 Yeah, she just signed it.
 I bet she did.
 She was like, give me the Reader's Digest version.
 Look, we got a couple minutes in Salvator.
 It's a long ride up to my office.
 Just tell me what's going on here.
 And she kind of broke the ice on a 10-year battle to crack the monopolies running pay
 phones in prisons, which is a surprisingly insane deal because basically, prisoners had
 been getting charged upwards of $4 just to place a call and then several dollars a minute,
 which is not really...
 And as I was saying on the Verge Mobile show, prisoners aren't necessarily the richest people
 on the planet.
 So it makes it difficult to make a call.
 Yeah, a lot of them don't vote.
 Right.
 They're like really low on the priority list.
 Exactly.
 They get taken care of.
 Exactly.
 So she pushed that through as well.
 You think that was after like a marathon Netflix session of Orange is the New Black?
 She was like, thank God I deregulated.
 Maybe just a Shawshank or something.
 Yeah.
 Can I say something?
 I just opened the camera on this because I realized we forgot to talk about the camera.
 My hatred...
 This is the next slide that I open.
 My hatred of these on-screen buttons knows no bounds.
 I'm just saying that to you.
 Go ahead.
 They're not good.
 They're not good.
 And they're not ceramic either.
 No, look, I think she was like...
 I do think that she had no...
 There were no checks on what she was able to do.
 Like she has no political future to fight for.
 Right.
 She's a lame duck.
 Yeah.
 And she just do whatever she wanted.
 And she did a whole bunch of stuff.
 Yeah.
 And all that is like watching what...
 I'm not particularly fond of our government at this moment in time, but watching what
 one person in our government can do when they don't have to worry about politics and they
 can just worry about being effective in terms of making things happen.
 Yeah.
 It's very, I would say, discouraging in my sense of hope in the future of this country.
 And now she's being replaced by a former lobbyist for the cable industry and the wireless industry.
 So we are in for a very desperate four years.
 All right.
 We should talk about this camera because we don't have time.
 Let's talk about the camera.
 So the camera is really not good.
 No, it's not.
 And I would point out that the on-screen buttons, I don't know if you can see this, cut off the
 camera button.
 Have you seen the shutter button?
 Oh yeah.
 Huh?
 The volume rocker does...
 Yes it does.
 The volume rocker takes a photo.
 That's fine.
 I'm just saying like there's a circle on the screen that's cut off by these on-screen buttons
 and I'm just going to say it right here right now.
 I hate them.
 You have regular buttons.
 What phone do you have right now, Chris?
 A 5S.
 You have 5S.
 Which is a pretty awesome camera.
 It's a pretty amazing camera.
 Yeah.
 I was taking pictures of a former member of N'Sync last night.
 It was JC Chazes.
 I was about to say, Joey Fatone, like tell me more.
 No, I went to a concert last night.
 What concert?
 Go ahead, share your little video.
 I went to an N'Sync concert last night.
 Share your video.
 No, I went to...
 It's really hard to say out loud.
 Look I'm sure that there were...
 I went to a Justin Timberlake concert last night.
 It was awesome.
 I loved every minute of it and he is a true performer and an artist.
 I said it.
 I said it all.
 I said it all.
 There's no shame in it.
 There are many men in their mid-30s at Justin Timberlake.
 There are lots of old dudes there.
 No, no.
 It was seriously like lots of old dudes with their hot little side pieces.
 Straight up.
 That was...
 Who was that?
 And then me and Becky being like, hey, we have a normal relationship of peers.
 We're new.
 Did you see Jessica Biel there?
 Was she...
 No.
 I think we were in one section and then there was a mega VIP section around another area
 where Jimmy Fallon was sitting and at one point the stage took off and flew over the
 audience which is, I'm not exaggerating.
 Wow.
 And it flew...
 Justin Timberlake flew to Jimmy Fallon and made fun of him for being drunk.
 That's insane.
 Really?
 Yeah.
 He was like, hey, hashtag wasted buddy and then Fallon got on a chair and waved at her.
 It was ridiculous.
 Yeah.
 It sounds like a hallucination.
 Huh?
 That sounds like a hallucination.
 No, it was real.
 I mean the whole thing felt like a hallucination.
 Right.
 I mean I never wanted to leave.
 And so if you're in a clutch situation...
 The only really weird moment was when he covered Heartbreak Hotel by Elvis which just doesn't...
 Weird or awesome?
 It was off.
 Yeah.
 He was like, this is a song from the south where I'm from and everyone was like, cool.
 And then it was Heartbreak.
 And it was like, I like Elvis.
 I'm an Elvis fan.
 I know how to play Heartbreak Hotel because it has two chords.
 But that's pretty much the end of where I think the relevance of...
 Did he dance like Elvis?
 He did.
 He tried.
 He tried to dance to the number.
 Which is totally in his wheelhouse.
 Yeah.
 I mean that...
 I just think he ran out of songs.
 He was like, here's a bunch of hits.
 Here's a weird deep cut from the second 2020 experience which he didn't buy.
 And now I'm gonna play Poison by Belvedere DeVoe because I'm out of...
 Did he do a lot of in sync or just solo stuff?
 No.
 There was no in sync.
 Really?
 Do you think that's a licensing issue?
 No, because he played...
 He played something else that I totally forgot the name of.
 But he took a lot of photos.
 Yeah.
 He crossed the streams.
 That was good.
 But he took a lot of photos.
 And I will say the 5S camera in that environment, not necessarily workable.
 Really?
 What would you rather have there?
 Because I couldn't stop it down far enough.
 So he was wearing a white jacket and the stage was totally dark and there was like a thousand
 watt lights on him.
 So he was just glowing the whole time.
 Yeah, but short of an SLR.
 I mean, what are you gonna do?
 I don't know.
 Look, I just wanted to capture the moment.
 You wanted a 1020 is what you wanted.
 I think a 1020 would have blown out.
 I mean, like...
 You can't spot meter a 1020, can you?
 Some deep camera memory.
 You probably can.
 I mean, like ProCam is a pretty hardcore app that I haven't used.
 I bet that maybe...
 Anyway.
 Well, it was amazing.
 I thought your video was fun.
 Yeah, it was good.
 I should have given it to people to play.
 No, look, I'm just saying I think the Nexus 5 is one of these phones where you're gonna
 buy it, you're gonna have it for three months, you're gonna sell and get rid of it.
 And I think the camera is a big piece of it.
 And I think the fact that it feels temporary is a big piece of it.
 So I think the Nexus 1...
 Why were we so excited about the Nexus 5?
 I was not.
 Oh, we weren't.
 People were really excited about it.
 Yeah, it was highly anticipated.
 Why was that?
 It was just leaked to hell and back.
 And I think that builds really a lot of hype.
 Well, it's also like a Google phone, you know?
 Like it's the closest counterpoint that the universe has to an iPhone launch.
 You know what I mean?
 Like there's no other company that kind of like approaches that level of mystique and
 Google kind of does.
 So sort of in a way.
 I mean, they really are actually the polar opposite of Apple, the more I think about
 it.
 But anyway, I think that's part of it.
 Well, and I think that, you know, based on my experience with the Nexus 4, which I thought
 was a great phone, like in terms of permanence...
 Nexus 4 is a really terrible phone.
 No, it was a great...
 It needed LTE and it had a bad camera, but in terms of like permanence as an object...
 And the screen had like literally zero contrast.
 It was like one to one contrast ratio.
 I had a good one.
 And I'm really picky about screens.
 Really?
 My screen is fine.
 Oh, mine is so bad.
 I don't know.
 But look, just the Nexus phone like had a design.
 It had like a personality.
 It was really cheap.
 Like there are reasons to be into that phone.
 And this phone, like all they had to do was fix the camera.
 That was it.
 If they had delivered the Nexus 4 with LTE and a better camera, people would have freaked
 out and they knew it.
 They had to know it.
 They got on stage and they're like, we fixed the camera.
 And for all the Android fan boys who are going to send me pictures of like a gas station
 in the bright sunshine, cool.
 Yes.
 Technology has advanced to the point where you can take a picture of a gas station in
 bright sunshine.
 But as soon as it gets to like dark and it's the sun sets on the gas station, your photo
 is going to look like crap.
 And I know that we're all out there taking photos of gas stations at sunset.
 I know I am.
 I was assuming that the sun setting on the gas station was a euphemism for something,
 but I wasn't sure what.
 And then the gas station explodes into shame.
 And that's you and your camera.
 So Adrian, what is your next phone?
 Because I'm getting...
 I don't know.
 Both of us have hives looking at this phone.
 Yeah.
 Yeah, I know.
 I should not bring it when I come on the Vergecast because it always gets a lot of attention.
 I mean, it is cool.
 I don't know.
 Look, it has the red accents, which I thought when the Incredible launched, I thought that
 was pretty dope.
 Maybe, should we say what phone it is?
 It's a Droid Incredible LTE.
 Yeah.
 Not a two.
 Is that the two?
 No, it's the next one.
 No.
 I didn't even know they made a next one.
 Yeah.
 I mean, I think it's good for a while.
 I'm kind of waiting for something to catch my eye.
 Waiting for what is the question?
 No, what?
 I want to know right now what you're waiting for.
 What am I waiting for?
 I'm waiting for another version of this phone that's a comfortable size that I guess has
 a better camera.
 So that's the thing for you.
 It has to be that big, right?
 It can't be bigger.
 Yeah.
 And that's...
 I mean, this is a common complaint, right?
 And I'll put it out there again.
 Like there is this stigma that a small phone can't be high end.
 And various companies pretend like they do small high end phones like the One Mini and
 the Galaxy S4 Mini, but they compromise in some ridiculous way.
 And this year's batch is no different.
 And so I wish you luck because I think you're going to have a lot of difficulty finding
 a 4.3 inch screen.
 Dude, she's just going to get an iPhone.
 They all do in the end.
 They'll get what?
 I don't know what that means.
 Other people like small phones.
 They'll end up with iPhones because Apple knows.
 Yeah.
 They're aware of this.
 Yeah.
 They're going to take your fingerprint too.
 Yep.
 They're going to take it.
 And send it to the cloud.
 Yeah.
 To the cloud, which is the government, which is the same thing.
 By the way, did you know somebody sent me a list of the other people the FCC follows
 and...
 Lady Gaga.
 Also cybersecurity, which is just at cyber.
 Which is incredible.
 I don't even know what that means.
 Like it's just a verified account at cyber.
 So cool.
 With only 13,000 followers.
 Yeah.
 No, they're definitely chasing you down, man.
 They're just watching you.
 I'm following cyber.
 That's a list of people who you think they're going to follow you back.
 They're going to DM cyber.
 Yeah.
 Learn how to secure all your electronic devices.
 That's terrible.
 Should we talk...
 We should talk about EverPix.
 Yes.
 Because it was amazing.
 Amazing piece.
 And also there's a song.
 There is now a song, which I think is queued up.
 It is queued up.
 So Adrian, do you want to walk us through what happened with EverPix?
 Did you read...
 Did you...
 Casey Story.
 Yeah.
 Let's see if I got it right.
 EverPix was originally a service that I didn't use, but people really loved it.
 But a lot of people loved it.
 I signed up for it once.
 And how much was it?
 $5 a month?
 Yeah, something in ridiculously cheap, yeah.
 But still, $5 is not $0, which other photo services cost.
 So people were really into it and they just couldn't...
 It sounds like it just came down to they couldn't get more investment.
 And their investors were saying like, oh, we don't see how this is going to be a billion
 dollar business.
 Which is like what the investors need in order to meet their marks, I guess.
 But you could still...
 It kind of sucks because you could see how an investment from somebody who was expecting
 a lower return could have really paid off if they had just lowered their standards for
 what success would be.
 If you could just have a service that had like, I don't know, like 10,000, 50,000 really
 dedicated users who paid five or 10 bucks a month, why isn't that a business?
 Well, how long was it until Amazon turned its first profit?
 It's like 2004, 2005 or something like that.
 Imagine if like in 1997, investors said, all right, well, there's no way you're making
 money anytime soon, goodbye.
 Well, it wasn't just that they didn't think they would make money soon, it was that they
 didn't think they would ever make a billion dollars, which they were probably right about.
 Like it probably had limited appeal and it just kind of sucks that they didn't have another
 option for being able to go on.
 And we know from Justin Timberlake that a billion dollars is cool.
 Yeah.
 And that's really how they all make...
 Yeah, that's the investment philosophy of most of the...
 So I used EverPix, I had it.
 I was going to be all set to be really into it.
 And I did the thing where you download it and it's on your computer and you have to
 let it run all night to upload all your photos and it emails you and it's like, a year ago
 today.
 I sucked a year ago today, which is a real problem with all those services.
 Yeah.
 You know what time up is?
 A nonstop collection of embarrassments.
 Like why on this day was I taking a picture of a Diet Coke can?
 Because that's what I was always doing.
 That was cool.
 And it had the sense that it was going to work and do something.
 And it had all these algorithms where it'll show you interesting stuff.
 But I never saw...
 It's like, you know what the other option is?
 Is Google+.
 And you can just bang everything up to Google+, and it's free.
 And what I don't understand is everybody I know who is really into EverPix kept on saying
 Apple needed to buy it.
 And the guy used to work at Apple.
 And I just don't know.
 It's the one piece of Casey story that I think was there.
 Why didn't they go to Apple?
 Did that just go nowhere?
 Was Apple ever interested?
 Because if you look at PhotoStream and what they're doing with all that stuff, it's a
 gigantic mess.
 And Apple buys millions of tiny companies.
 Right.
 It's like one every three weeks was on their last call.
 Which is like...
 Wow, really?
 One every three to four weeks.
 And most of them just get absorbed into the ether, right?
 But they help make something better.
 How many does Google buy?
 I don't know.
 Quite a few.
 It's a lot.
 Yeah.
 I mean, this is like the valley, right?
 You start a crappy company, you prove out the fact that you can build something, and then
 you're like, hey, buy me.
 And then it happens.
 But I just...
 Apple's buying it because they need talent.
 If you look at where Apple's really buying, it's like they're buying against web services,
 they're buying against internet stuff because they need to get better at it.
 They need to bring in the talent.
 And it's like, are you convinced that you have the right talent building photo stream?
 Because I'm not.
 It's great.
 I use it.
 It works.
 It does a thing where I take a picture on my iPhone and some time later it shows up
 on my computer.
 That's great.
 But something about that feels very analog and...
 Not analog.
 Something about that feels very old.
 It feels very like I'm waiting for something to go to a hard drive at my house instead
 of a hard drive on Apple's much more secure data server that is rigorously maintained.
 As opposed to me where I'm like, let's see what porn websites have irises today.
 And it's like, I'm definitely gonna lose all my photos.
 I don't do that.
 You might do that.
 Hi mom.
 Hello wife.
 What Evan just trolled me from the great beyond.
 Did everybody just see zombie Evan's photo bomb here?
 What is this?
 I don't know how it went in my hand.
 Oh, in the multicolor light.
 That's pretty tricky.
 What is happening back there?
 I don't know.
 Look, the EverFix story was incredible.
 Casey did just an amazing job getting in there.
 Juicy, scoopy.
 I just feel bad.
 It was depressing in that it really drives home the point that your product doesn't just
 have to be good to be successful, which is tragic.
 At the end of the day, in an innovation economy, you wanna believe in your heart of hearts
 that you just have to make an awesome product and everything will fall into place.
 This proves that that's not the case.
 People are definitely sending me like fakes Nexus 5 photos now.
 Somebody just sent me like a quasar.
 I don't know what he's talking about.
 I think it was like Nexus 5.
 No, you didn't.
 That didn't happen.
 Oh, they're gonna troll me so bad now.
 Why did I engage this?
 Somebody just asked me Nexus 5 or Moto X?
 I think everybody in our staff has settled on the Moto X.
 Yeah, I'd say Moto X.
 I think Josh is very settled on Moto X.
 He's very fond of it.
 It's great phone.
 What a miserable camera.
 Yeah, yeah, although it got a little better with that firmware update.
 Yeah.
 I know, man.
 If you want an Android phone, you want a great camera, it's like you're stuck with the GS4.
 Well, one option, I can't remember who brought this up.
 That's even like...
 It might have been Vlad.
 You duct tape a 1020 to the back of your Android phone.
 Yeah.
 This is like when the iPhone was first coming out and people were like, the best phone you
 can get right now is an iPod duct taped to a Razr.
 Yeah, yeah.
 It's true.
 What else is there?
 There's lots.
 Oh, there's an iPad sitting here.
 Yes.
 You reviewed the iPad Air.
 I did review the iPad Air.
 Tell us about the iPad Air.
 So, here's the thing with it.
 It's an iPad.
 No, that's it.
 It's an iPad.
 It very much is a gigantic iPad mini, which is cool if you're into the iPad mini, but
 that's exactly what it is.
 It has the same screen.
 It is looks...
 It's in space gray now, which is nice.
 It's very handsome.
 I'm going to buy one because I'm a big iPad person.
 How's it doing for scratches?
 It's fun.
 I mean, the back, it's a little fingerprinty.
 It's remarkably small and light.
 If you were a mini person and you never got a big iPad because you're like, oh, that's
 way too big, you should reconsider and hold one in your hands.
 But it is $100 more than the mini with Retina.
 Yeah, yeah.
 I'm just saying if you were attracted to a bigger screen.
 The thing about the mini, the new mini with Retina is that it has the same processor.
 It will have the same caliber of display.
 Actually, a slightly better display because the pixel needs to be higher, which I know
 that Paul Miller and I are very concerned about.
 It'll be great.
 That'll be a great product.
 This is a great product.
 Here's the problem.
 iOS 7 on the iPad, kind of junky.
 Just kind of junky.
 Just not there.
 Janky even?
 No.
 I'm pretty sure I put that in the style guide.
 It's like a big no, no.
 Nothing can be janky.
 Welcome to no, no town, Adrienne.
 God, I'm really sorry I said that.
 This is what my managing editor said to me today.
 I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad.
 I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad.
 I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad.
 I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad.
 I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad.
 I'm going to go ahead and get my iPad.
 I've always been an effective leader, effective leadership in no, no town by Nila Patel.
 It's true.
 Nila manages The Verge like a preschool.
 It is a preschool.
 I always think of The Verge as a collection of weirdos and I just have to keep the weirdos
 safe and then they'll do really weird things.
 Make sure they don't hurt themselves or others.
 Did you eat your cookies?
 Did you spill juice on the ground?
 Did you take your nap?
 God, we should have nap time.
 We really should.
 If we had nap time, I'd have done it.
 If we had nap time every day, it would be incredible.
 Then we all woke up and said whatever weird nap things.
 The site would just go down and be replaced by a sign that said, it's nap time.
 Please check back at four o'clock.
 They're like little Z's, like a little animation.
 Check back in 15 minutes.
 Wait, so am I the only one who has really weird nap dreams?
 I have particularly weird, like when I take a nap, weird shit happens in my mind.
 I wake up and I think it's real for about 10 minutes.
 So I think at the end, well, I'm assuming everybody else doesn't have this because that
 might be crazy, but if everybody else, like we had nap time every day and everybody else
 just published like whatever.
 Basically I want the Verge to be a dream journal.
 There might be a place for, let's put it this way.
 If we had a, if we-
 We can have a dream vertical.
 Yeah.
 Ooh.
 Yeah.
 Fox dreams.
 Dan, you got a text message.
 Yeah, Dan, come get your phone.
 They're in the car.
 So question, iPad Air.
 Yeah.
 Do you miss Touch ID?
 No, God, no.
 It's useless.
 You and Dan, man, with the Touch ID.
 I mean, I use it.
 Hey, look, check it out.
 I did a thing.
 It's great.
 It's the best.
 It is the best thing Apple has done in the last decade.
 It crashes all the time.
 Like three times a day.
 What do you mean crash?
 Like from what I am told, springboard on the iPhone is crashy and iOS 7 on it, particularly
 on the 5S.
 So in the background, springboard will crash out and then it'll take Touch ID with it.
 And so then I'm trying to unlock my phone and I'm just there like an idiot, just quietly
 holding my thumb on my phone, waiting for something good to happen.
 I think you might just have a weird thumb because it never crashes for me.
 No, many, many people have.
 I'm just saying.
 I don't have a weird thumb, first of all.
 And even if I did, I would suggest to you, sir.
 This is actually the second conversation Chris and I were in today about weird thumbs.
 That's true.
 We learned that Vince Vaughn has a weird thumb, which I didn't know.
 Yeah, but my thumb is a normal thumb.
 Vince Vaughn, whatever man, whatever's going on with his fingers is cool.
 What's springboard?
 Springboard is the appy thing.
 He's not lying.
 It is the appy thing.
 It's the home screen.
 It's the home screen.
 It's the app that runs the home screen or system process or whatever you want to call
 it.
 So no, I've been told that, you know, the appy thing.
 Now I've been told that it crashes in the background.
 I tweeted about it and people are like, yeah, it happens to me all the time.
 Also, it's fundamentally useless.
 It does one thing.
 It unlocks your phone.
 It does it really well.
 Great.
 But you know what also does a good job of unlocking anything like typing in the code
 or not having a, like, you know, like I, it just doesn't bother me.
 So I will say, when it does other stuff, maybe it'll bother you.
 I will say this, uh, typing in a code to unlock my phone bothers me far less than the iPhone
 than it does on most Android phones because the screen is larger.
 So I'm like, I have to reposition the phone to get my thumb across to the other side of
 the screen.
 Whereas the iPhone is small enough so I can just keep my hand and phone in one place.
 This is like the ultimate first world problem.
 I'm sorry.
 Yeah.
 Um, look, I like that idea.
 It does seem like, so how necessary is it to password protect your phone?
 Very necessary.
 Very necessary.
 Why aren't you connected to our company's email?
 It's extremely necessary.
 My phone is never out of my, that's what they all say until you feel like there's a really
 obvious to what you're saying.
 Where I was going to go with this is that it's, it's not crucial now, but very soon
 it will be crucial because you'll be paying with your phone.
 You'll be, you'll have your social security number on your phone.
 If you got my phone, you could go on like an Amazon rampage.
 Like you just do it.
 You could buy a bunch of stuff in the Amazon app on my phone.
 Stay the hell away from me.
 You're lying eyes.
 Then it's going to go to your house.
 Huh?
 Then it's going to go to your house.
 That's true.
 Um, well, I don't have it.
 I don't have any financial information on my phone.
 That's what they all say until all of a sudden you're compromised.
 Yeah, we're not.
 Wait, how there's no way they all say I don't have any financial information on my phone
 until the day they're compromised.
 And they're like, wait a minute.
 I did have financial information.
 It's the same tragic story over and over again.
 Same tragic illogical story over and over and over again.
 So yeah, there's an argument for having a password on your phone.
 I don't think it's essential.
 I think it's going to be essential soon.
 You are definitely crazy.
 And I'm definitely telling you in this preschool, we put passwords on our phones.
 Like, no, you have to have a pass.
 And it's fine.
 Touch ID is great.
 I'm saying on the iPad, like typing, like the number of times that I unlock my phone
 today is like an order of magnitude higher than the number of times I unlock my iPad.
 Right?
 Like I use my iPad and I'm like, I'm using it.
 So I got my phone stolen once and they did not look at my email.
 I actually kept the service on because I thought it would help find the phone, which it did.
 NYPD ended up calling them and trapping them.
 They like texted and said like, this is my phone.
 Like I'll give you 200 bucks to get it back.
 And then they like met up and then the cops arrested them.
 I have two questions about this.
 One.
 Anyway, so do you want to know what they did do with my phone?
 Yeah.
 And then I have two questions.
 Look at porn.
 Yeah.
 What else would you do?
 So like that, that's what people do when they steal phones.
 They don't go into your email or go on an Amazon shopping spree.
 Now I have, now I have three questions.
 I have another set of questions.
 So one, the NYPD helped you.
 Two, they used the dumbest gambit in the history of like cop gambits and that succeeded.
 Yeah.
 Okay.
 Three, you believe that all people just look at porn on phones.
 Yeah.
 Just criminals.
 Just criminals.
 Yeah.
 You have evidence.
 What evidence do you have?
 Uh, I don't know.
 I've lost a lot of phones.
 Like, and did anybody go on an Amazon shopping spree?
 No, cause he couldn't unlock my phone.
 Oh, right.
 Yeah.
 I mean, I once I, one time I watched my phone just sort of drive away in Las Vegas.
 Like, was it like on top of the car?
 Was it on top of the cab?
 No, no, no.
 It was like on find my phone.
 I just like watched it leave.
 I think I remember you were laying this story to me wearing sunglasses, just looking.
 Worse for the wear from Las Vegas international airport.
 Yeah.
 The Karen, uh, the morning after CES ended.
 No.
 Uh, and Nina lost a phone too.
 Oh, and uh, Leo lost a phone.
 Leo, Leo lost a phone.
 Everyone.
 The leo phone, uh, when we got back was not like we, uh, a group of bros had acquired
 the phone and we went to their bro hotel to.
 Bro tell.
 Bro tell.
 We went to the bro tell.
 Take a bro to a bro tell.
 To talk to the bros.
 And they were like, I just looked at like a complete mess.
 And they were like, are you, are you sure it's your phone?
 I was like, just whatever you want.
 Like, we talked to a lady on the other one.
 They called it.
 I was like, ah, they were sad.
 You weren't a lady.
 I mean, yeah.
 Well, you know, I think they were also sad that I smelled like a hobo.
 See, this is when bros are sad that you smell like a hobo.
 That when you lose your phone, two things happen.
 Either somebody brings it back to you or they're a bad person and they look at porn on it.
 And then you have to get the police involved.
 Those are the two possibilities.
 Yeah.
 And the cops have to come because there's no other way to look at porn.
 I called the police.
 But on a stolen phone.
 Uh, so Aaron tells me, uh, uh, told me, so two things.
 First of all, we should talk about this breaking news.
 Evan tells me that a star Wars episode, uh, seven is con is confirmed for December 18th,
 2015, which is not Memorial day weekend, which is weird for a star Wars movie.
 Yeah.
 Uh, this is breaking news.
 It's live on the verge right now.
 Uh, check it out from our own Brian Bishop.
 I'm very concerned about this movie.
 As you should be.
 Uh, there, there's like this magical chair thing going on with the, uh, with the directors
 and writers, magical chair, musical chair.
 Thank you.
 That's what it's called.
 I mean, magical chairs definitely like what the predators play with the children instead
 of musical chairs.
 And they look at porn on stolen.
 Hang on kids like, yeah, right.
 There's the artful Dodger.
 He's out stealing phones.
 Look at porn on and the rest of the children are stuck inside the warehouse, like magical
 chairs, a terrifying vision of, of, of reality in New York city.
 Uh, don't bring your kids here.
 But what I wanted to say is that Aaron, uh, at mobile Congress two years ago had his phone
 pickpocketed too.
 Uh, and there was no porn being looked at on that phone as far as I know.
 Because the cops somehow got the phone back from the pickpocketer and called his girlfriend
 and he got the phone back.
 What are these cops doing?
 They're constantly swooping into rescue phones.
 Yeah.
 It's a thing.
 Robbed in Las Vegas.
 You what?
 I have to stop getting robbed in Las Vegas.
 Yeah.
 I was making his cops like, well, we all have stories.
 It's Vegas.
 What do you expect?
 And then they rob you.
 One time a hooker robbed me in Las Vegas.
 It's a true story.
 I think, uh, um, just putting it out there.
 Just a thing that happened to me.
 It's really weird to me that this movie is not coming out on Memorial Day weekend.
 That's the first one ever that has not come out.
 I think it's not coming out, come out on Memorial Day.
 Um, can I, we should finish talking about this iPad.
 We've gotten fully off.
 Yes.
 Yes.
 Um, so here's my theory about the iPad right now.
 I feel like they rushed out iOS seven.
 They rushed, they obviously rushed out super fast.
 I don't think it's a finished operating system by any stretch of the imagination.
 I think there are, uh, lots of things on the iPhone that are like kind of broken.
 Um, I'm assuming this happens to everyone.
 If you, there's, there's a way you can open iPhone app where the, um, yeah.
 I can swoop up at you.
 If you do it, it's like five times out of 10, the animation gets stuck and there's like a little cloud.
 Does this ever happen to you, Chris?
 No.
 So if you search for an app that's on your home screen and you open it in the spotlight,
 the home screen icons like fly you and then the app opens.
 Yeah.
 So every, like five times out of 10 that animation gets stuck and there's like a little cloud of like the word photos that like lives in the corner of your screen.
 It's like the least Apple-y thing in the world that like this animation doesn't complete itself on time.
 I've never seen that once and it's possible.
 Is it your weird thumb?
 It's my weird thumb, obviously.
 Maybe it's just that I don't use universal search like ever.
 Oh yeah.
 I open everything with spotlight.
 So I see it all the time.
 Uh, so like anyway, but I, for the, by and large, like whatever, like the iPhone was finished, right?
 There are still like some weird twer, like tweaks they need to make and like quirks about it.
 Um, and then the iPad is like, you didn't finish this at all.
 You just like scaled up like things on the iPad.
 Like what does Apple say about the iPad?
 Like our apps are better.
 They're optimized for the iPad.
 And then all kinds of stuff is just blown up iPhone stuff.
 So like notification center is the blown up iPhone notification.
 It makes no sense.
 It's like, shouldn't this be more useful than the iPhone?
 Uh, Siri is just blown up iPhone Siri.
 And it's like, this should be way more useful or like on all the time or like doing something else in this form factor than just being gigantic iPhone Siri.
 Um, this far icon is terrible.
 I'm just saying it.
 I'm going to say it again.
 I put it in the review.
 It was, it was a joke.
 It's a con, but because you've trolled me so consistently, it is no longer a joke.
 Uh, and it is now how I feel in my heart, which is actually how I feel in my heart because it's terrible.
 Uh, and it's just buggy all over the place.
 Um, I don't know.
 Like, so it's, the air is great.
 It's the iPad.
 iPads are really good.
 I think the air is the best iPad they've made because it's smaller and lighter, but iOS seven is a mess, especially on the iPad.
 Yeah.
 I mean, I haven't used it on an iPad, so I can't speak to that.
 I think they were just in a rush.
 Like they're just in some weird crazy rush.
 And I don't know why it feels very on Apple to be in this rush.
 Yeah.
 Well they have this cadence, right?
 Like it would have looked weird if it hadn't come out until 2014, right?
 If I was seven had been pushed in 2014.
 Yeah, that would have been weird and would have delayed the five S and the five C presumably.
 So that would have been a mess, but I have to say the same is true with a Mavericks.
 I mean Mavericks has been a nightmare for me.
 You think so?
 Yeah.
 It's been fine for me.
 It is the worst thing ever.
 Every time time machine kicks in, I lose my internet connection until it's done.
 It's a nightmare.
 Why?
 Wait, doesn't on that computer?
 Yes.
 On this one, every time time machine turns on the internet connection goes away until it's done.
 That's problem one.
 Problem two, and this is a big one.
 I'd say about once a day it just shuts off in the middle of whatever I'm doing and won't turn back on until I unplug my second monitor.
 I think maybe you might have a hardware issue.
 I'm just putting that one out there.
 I don't think that's a good.
 I think if once a day everybody with a second monitor had their computer turning off.
 I'm just, well, I'm blaming Mavericks.
 I mean, I've seen people blame Mavericks for everything, but I have no problems with it.
 No, I was telling Phil Nickinson of Android Central, he was saying something was going haywire in Mavericks, and I responded that it's come down to blame Obama and blame Mavericks.
 Those are the two things you're allowed to blame for every single problem that's going on right now.
 Yeah.
 We'll see what happens.
 I mean, like, so I think Mark Herman was saying that, like, if you look at historical trends, point one will come out in three weeks.
 So we'll see.
 We'll see.
 I don't know what you do about the iPad here though.
 I just think like they, this is going to sound really weird to say because they're going to sell a ton of these iPads.
 But I think if they want to grow the iPad as a thing in the world, they need to start thinking that as some, like that version of iOS that's on the iPad needs to become meaningfully different than the version that's on the iPad.
 Well, you were convinced before the event that they were going to do pro.
 They should do a pro and they should, they should figure out how to make a real keyboard work with this thing.
 But, but let me ask you this.
 Say they come out with a 799 or 899 iPad Pro.
 You can pair a Bluetooth keyboard.
 How do you position that against 11 inch and 11 inch MacBook Air?
 How do you do it?
 You just do it.
 What do you mean?
 Who cares?
 The, the, the, the prices are too close.
 I don't think people walk in the store wondering like what thousand dollars am I spending in the Apple store.
 No, no, you do.
 No, you absolutely do.
 And here's why, because every time you go to an airport, count the number of people who are using an iPad in a metal Logitech keyboard dock that looks exactly like a laptop.
 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
 They want a little Apple laptop.
 That's what they want.
 But they're not buying the 11 inch Air.
 They want an iPad.
 They're not buying a Surface either.
 Yeah, but, but I think that's because the price is noticeably different.
 Like if you, if you positioned an iPad pro at the same price point as MacBook Air, that becomes a much harder choice to make.
 Why?
 They're already making it.
 Not, not the same price.
 I mean, I'm just, I mean, maybe 64 gig LTE.
 What's that?
 It's 120.
 You can buy a $930 iPad.
 Yeah, fair enough.
 I don't know who does that.
 So that iPad, by the way, people, that's the one that people talk about is like being competitive with the laptops.
 I think that iPad is like the only people who buy that one are like rich guys who want to buy the most expensive one.
 And like, like photo and video pros who are like out in the field with like a bunch of stuff to show people.
 It's just too much storage.
 That, that thing is like an accessory to like a workstation.
 Yeah.
 It is not like a primary computer.
 Right.
 And I think they need to figure out how to make this thing the primary computer for people.
 And I don't think they have, they're not anywhere near that.
 Yeah.
 Like giving away pages for free is great, but you know what they had to do to make pages like.
 Not suck.
 Well, you know, they, they made pages suck on the Mac so that it would match how much it sucks on the iPad.
 Yeah.
 And that's like, don't do that.
 Like do something better than that.
 Yeah.
 And I like, I just think that that's where they are.
 It's a great iPad.
 They're going to sell a lot of them.
 I'm going to buy one because it's the best tablet you can get.
 And the mini is probably people are going to buy the hell out of the mini because everybody likes mini better.
 But they're nowhere near the idea that they're going to reset computers with that thing.
 Yeah.
 I don't know.
 Do you have any friends who went to college with just an iPad?
 No.
 Do you even, would you even think of doing such a thing?
 No.
 Do you use any tablet at all?
 Do you, do you not like the fact that you don't have one?
 Because before I had a tablet, I did not think that I wanted one, but then once I got it, it was like, oh yeah, this is what I want.
 Yeah.
 I think that's probably me.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 I mean, it's, it's a couch device, right?
 Like.
 Yeah.
 It's, it's, it's great.
 And there's all kinds of stuff you can do with it.
 And I, I, when I go home, I try to work on the iPad because it keeps me from working too hard.
 For me, that's the Chromebook.
 Yeah.
 Hmm.
 I would.
 What?
 Like a Chromebox?
 John's just trolling from beyond.
 Yeah.
 I don't know.
 If you have a desktop, John's asked me into my ear, do you have a desktop, the iPad?
 No, it's still not perfect.
 Cause there's, it's still going to keep me from working too hard.
 I'm still not fully productive on it because it's still not smart enough to do the things
 I wanted to do.
 And that's great.
 I think for a lot of people that's, but even my parents, they have a desktop and they use
 the iPad all around the house and then they want to like look at a bunch of photos.
 They go, you know, I want to do this.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
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 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
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 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
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 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.
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 I want to do that.
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 I want to do that.
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 I want to do that.
 I want to do that.