 Hey guys, this is Kwame with The Verge, and I'm about to talk to two of the biggest Batman writers working today, James Tynan and Scott Snyder. Spoiler alert if you haven't read their work, because we're about to get into it. So guys, basically you're working in a world where Batman is not Bruce Wayne anymore. What is that like? Well, it's sort of awesome actually, because for me, I mean, I've been writing Batman for about four years with artist Greg Capullo, who's just been incredible on the book. And this year we really wanted to sort of have a final battle between Batman and Joker. We realized once they kind of both went down, it would give us an opportunity to look at the mythology from a whole new angle. Who would become Batman if the legend, the only person that could really be Batman, died? What if Batman died and the city was left sort of completely unprotected? Who would step up? So for us, the answer was Jim Gordon. So he's a deputized Batman, he's a city-sanctioned Batman, and he's somebody who's believed in the systems that we put in place to protect ourselves, the police, local government, his whole life. And he wants to prove to the entire city that Batman can be a symbol of inspiration, a symbol of safety, a symbol of safe harbor and faith, honestly, in these kinds of mechanisms that we believe in when things are going well to make the city a safe place. Of course, Gotham's going to throw tremendous obstacles in his way, this new villain, Mr. Bloom. And the other sort of half of the story deals with Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne comes back from this battle with the Joker with a totally new neurological landscape. Gotham has been healed of all its memories. He has no memories of being Batman. It's a new brain almost in his head. So it's almost as though Batman died and Bruce Wayne came back. This is the boy that none of us saved in the alley. And it's who he would be if he had no skills, no detective skills, no kick-ass fighting skills, none of it. And so overall, it's a wonderful Gotham, at least for me right now, to be able to write in because it gives me so many new angles on these characters I love, from Bruce to Alfred to Jim Gordon to new characters that we're introducing, Duke Thomas. And ultimately, I think when you have a franchise that's 75 years old, it's so fun to go classic and use the classic villains. And we will, again, Two-Face and everything like that and Bruce, if he ever comes back to be Batman again. But when you get these vacations, when you get these moments away from home and you get to look at your home differently, it's so exciting and vibrant. And the fans have been so supportive. I'm really stunned. I remember telling James and being like, this might be the jump the shark or the ten sharks moment when we lose all of our sales. But things have held up and even gone beyond our expectations. And the fact that fans are so supportive of us, we really can't thank them enough. Gotham is the fans. They're just wonderful to us. So I feel like it's a great time to be in Gotham right now. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it also creates incredible storytelling possibilities. The ability to tell stories, like you said, this is a character that's existed for 75 years. And in moments like this, you get to tell stories that no one's read before, which is hard to do, very hard to do in the Batman mythos. So with that, you know, we're now, Scott and I are sort of show running a new Batman weekly, Batman and Robin Eternal, which takes the perspective of the entire Bat family as one of Bruce's, one of the greatest threats from Bruce's past reemerges. But Bruce isn't there to tell them what this threat is and how dangerous it can be. So it's now we have the opportunity to tell this story in this moment. And it's really, really fun to see all of the Robins and young characters interact with each other in a world without Bruce Wayne as Batman. So you guys are working in a world where there have been a lot of sea changes in comics in general, where everyone's changing how comics work, you've had sequel wars or a convergence, everything going on with image. What's it like working in this environment where people are kind of challenging the status quo? Well, I mean, I honestly feel like it's a golden age to be involved in comics where if you're talking about sort of the landscape from the air, I mean, creators like us, we have more opportunities than ever to be daring, you know, on these superhero books. As long as you're sort of true to core and love the character at the DNA level, companies now are welcoming calculated risk because of companies like Image. And I think because creator-owned books have done so well, and there's this kind of new fountain of creativity in that world and sustainable creativity where those books are selling and doing well. So I think, you know, the superhero market wants that same energy and is willing to let creators like us take risks on the characters as long as they know that we want the character true to core, we love the character, we're not trying to break it. Just bend in such a way that you get a brand new set of story opportunities, like James said, on these classic characters. So really, I mean, I feel like the storytelling going on at Marvel, at DC, at Image, there couldn't be a better time to be a comic book fan. I mean, a creator, certainly, there's so many opportunities. And there's such a kind of a sort of celebration, I think, right now of calculated risk on these characters. But even as just a reader, as a fan, like, I go to my shop, my local shop on Wednesdays, and there's so many books that I'm excited to pick up from Star Wars all the way down to the most indie book, because there's a high level of quality right now, because people realize that, you know, these books, if they're done well, can sell on any and any genre in any company, in any sort of publishing imprint. I mean, I think Scott said it perfectly. Awesome. So is it a challenge to deal with like the massive pop cultural response that superheroes are getting in Hollywood, where you have these very static images of what superheroes are supposed to do, whereas you guys are changing the status quo from the source? What's the relationship between the two for you guys? I mean, I think it goes into some of what Scott was just saying, which is, I think, the fact that everyone sort of, like, the film and television versions of a lot of these characters sort of become the central, like, iconic versions to a lot of people. And to arrest people with powerful stories in the comics, you have to do things that they can't do in the movies. Good point. You have to do something daring and interesting in a way that's just like, okay, this is why it's comics. Comics have no budget. Scott doesn't have to worry about the Bat Gordon robo suit, like, how much it's going to cost. You know, he can all of a sudden be like, okay, now it has laser launchers coming out of the arms and all of that. And now I'm like, who do I want? And it's just like, the only budget is our imagination. Exactly. And that is the strength of comics, is it's whatever we can come up with and excite people with. So, yeah. Yeah, and the only other thing I'd point out, because I thought that's beautifully said, is that, you know, when you come to a con like this, what you realize is, you know, the filmic and televisual sort of, and video game, I think, representations of these characters bring so many new fans in. This con itself, New York Comic Con, is just so robust. You see so many new faces, people from all walks of life loving these characters because they're so adaptable. And you realize how elastic they are. Because at core, they stand for certain things. Like Batman, for example, teaches us that no matter how tragic your circumstances are, no matter what sort of befalls you, no matter what obstacles you face, if you believe in yourself and you're determined enough, you can be the hero that you dream of being, despite all of the kind of hardship that you've encountered in your life. And if you take that as the core, you can have him in space, you can have him as an angry Batman, you can have him as a happier Batman, a Batman 66. There's so many interpretations. And I think those adaptations of him, when you see Batman vs. Superman or you see the animated series, they bring so many new fans in. And again, like, I don't feel there's ever been a better time to be a fan of the superhero world or the superhero genre. When you look around and see such a diverse crowd, people of all ages, all walks of life, race, orientation, everything, celebrating these characters in all different kinds of ways, I mean, it's really a vibrant and I think multifaceted fandom right now. So regarding Batman 44, you have Jim Gordon facing the question of gentrification and police brutality in Gotham City. What brought you into that mode, especially considering the last year? Well, what I would say, this story, it's all kind of energy monsters and robots in a lot of ways, but it's actually deeply about what Batman means to us in the real world. So sometimes you have a story that you translate into comic book language. Like, for example, the best kind of example I can cite is that The Dark Knight Returns to Me is a comic book language story. The mutants are this crazy gang and two faces running around. But ultimately as a kid, all the issues in that book, the Cold War, urban decay, they were all there just sort of in comic book language. And sometimes in certain stories like Zero Year we do that. And in other stories, like, and that's what we're doing in this one in Super Heavy, but once in a while you kind of peel back the comic book language and show it in straight prose and say, this is what this is about. And truthfully, when you have a Batman who has believed in the police and believed in, again, the systems and the mechanisms that we put in place in a city like New York or Baltimore or Gotham to protect ourselves, you're going to get a story where you come up against the hard truths and the entrenched systemic problems that Batman sometimes is going to see and say, what do I mean to these? So we wanted it really to be the keystone issue of the entire arc and to be something that said, this is what this story is about. And what I'd say is, you know, a lot of what we're, I think Batman, on the other hand, like one of the great things about the characters, you know, what we're doing in Batman and Robin Eternal, you can do a story that globetrotts. It's all over the place. And this story could not be better. I really, I cannot stress enough, like, doing a weekly series is hard. It's something that I've worked on with James and the team has come up with and Tony Daniel on art. It is probably the best Batman story of the year. Twenty-six issues. You're going to feel like you got so much bang for your buck. It's a mystery from the past that's come back to haunt the present in ways that I think you'll find really potent and resonant. Conspiracies and secrets. And in today's world, I feel like a lot of the stuff they're bringing up, even in comic book language, even in the most bombastic and cartoonish sort of translation, will feel resonant and will feel potent. It might not be the same issues we're talking about in Batman right now, which I think are particularly kind of live wire. But our goal as comic book writers, I think, is to always take material that's personal to us, always take stuff that's resonant, that matters to us, and write them through these characters so these characters matter. And I can promise you that Batman Eternal and Twenty-Six Issues is one of those stories. It's something that you should pick up. If you love Batman and Robin, it's Robin's 75th anniversary. You got every Robin. You got a brand new villain who's scary in the way that I think a today villain should be scary. And you got a great team on the book. It's really something I'm proud to be affiliated with in any way. Awesome. Thanks so much, Scott. Sure. Thank you. James. Thanks. Thank you so much.
 Hey guys, this is Kwame with The Verge, and I'm about to talk to two of the biggest Batman
 writers working today, James Tynan and Scott Snyder.
 Spoiler alert if you haven't read their work, because we're about to get into it.
 So guys, basically you're working in a world where Batman is not Bruce Wayne anymore.
 What is that like?
 Well, it's sort of awesome actually, because for me, I mean, I've been writing Batman for
 about four years with artist Greg Capullo, who's just been incredible on the book.
 And this year we really wanted to sort of have a final battle between Batman and Joker.
 We realized once they kind of both went down, it would give us an opportunity to look at
 the mythology from a whole new angle.
 Who would become Batman if the legend, the only person that could really be Batman, died?
 What if Batman died and the city was left sort of completely unprotected?
 Who would step up?
 So for us, the answer was Jim Gordon.
 So he's a deputized Batman, he's a city-sanctioned Batman, and he's somebody who's believed in
 the systems that we put in place to protect ourselves, the police, local government, his
 whole life.
 And he wants to prove to the entire city that Batman can be a symbol of inspiration, a symbol
 of safety, a symbol of safe harbor and faith, honestly, in these kinds of mechanisms that
 we believe in when things are going well to make the city a safe place.
 Of course, Gotham's going to throw tremendous obstacles in his way, this new villain, Mr.
 Bloom.
 And the other sort of half of the story deals with Bruce Wayne.
 Bruce Wayne comes back from this battle with the Joker with a totally new neurological
 landscape.
 Gotham has been healed of all its memories.
 He has no memories of being Batman.
 It's a new brain almost in his head.
 So it's almost as though Batman died and Bruce Wayne came back.
 This is the boy that none of us saved in the alley.
 And it's who he would be if he had no skills, no detective skills, no kick-ass fighting
 skills, none of it.
 And so overall, it's a wonderful Gotham, at least for me right now, to be able to write
 in because it gives me so many new angles on these characters I love, from Bruce to
 Alfred to Jim Gordon to new characters that we're introducing, Duke Thomas.
 And ultimately, I think when you have a franchise that's 75 years old, it's so fun to go classic
 and use the classic villains.
 And we will, again, Two-Face and everything like that and Bruce, if he ever comes back
 to be Batman again.
 But when you get these vacations, when you get these moments away from home and you get
 to look at your home differently, it's so exciting and vibrant.
 And the fans have been so supportive.
 I'm really stunned.
 I remember telling James and being like, this might be the jump the shark or the ten sharks
 moment when we lose all of our sales.
 But things have held up and even gone beyond our expectations.
 And the fact that fans are so supportive of us, we really can't thank them enough.
 Gotham is the fans.
 They're just wonderful to us.
 So I feel like it's a great time to be in Gotham right now.
 Yeah, absolutely.
 And I mean, it also creates incredible storytelling possibilities.
 The ability to tell stories, like you said, this is a character that's existed for 75
 years.
 And in moments like this, you get to tell stories that no one's read before, which is
 hard to do, very hard to do in the Batman mythos.
 So with that, you know, we're now, Scott and I are sort of show running a new Batman weekly,
 Batman and Robin Eternal, which takes the perspective of the entire Bat family as one
 of Bruce's, one of the greatest threats from Bruce's past reemerges.
 But Bruce isn't there to tell them what this threat is and how dangerous it can be.
 So it's now we have the opportunity to tell this story in this moment.
 And it's really, really fun to see all of the Robins and young characters interact with
 each other in a world without Bruce Wayne as Batman.
 So you guys are working in a world where there have been a lot of sea changes in comics in
 general, where everyone's changing how comics work, you've had sequel wars or a convergence,
 everything going on with image.
 What's it like working in this environment where people are kind of challenging the status
 quo?
 Well, I mean, I honestly feel like it's a golden age to be involved in comics where
 if you're talking about sort of the landscape from the air, I mean, creators like us, we
 have more opportunities than ever to be daring, you know, on these superhero books.
 As long as you're sort of true to core and love the character at the DNA level, companies
 now are welcoming calculated risk because of companies like Image.
 And I think because creator-owned books have done so well, and there's this kind of new
 fountain of creativity in that world and sustainable creativity where those books are selling
 and doing well.
 So I think, you know, the superhero market wants that same energy and is willing to let
 creators like us take risks on the characters as long as they know that we want the character
 true to core, we love the character, we're not trying to break it.
 Just bend in such a way that you get a brand new set of story opportunities, like James
 said, on these classic characters.
 So really, I mean, I feel like the storytelling going on at Marvel, at DC, at Image, there
 couldn't be a better time to be a comic book fan.
 I mean, a creator, certainly, there's so many opportunities.
 And there's such a kind of a sort of celebration, I think, right now of calculated risk on these
 characters.
 But even as just a reader, as a fan, like, I go to my shop, my local shop on Wednesdays,
 and there's so many books that I'm excited to pick up from Star Wars all the way down
 to the most indie book, because there's a high level of quality right now, because people
 realize that, you know, these books, if they're done well, can sell on any and any genre in
 any company, in any sort of publishing imprint.
 I mean, I think Scott said it perfectly.
 Awesome.
 So is it a challenge to deal with like the massive pop cultural response that superheroes
 are getting in Hollywood, where you have these very static images of what superheroes are
 supposed to do, whereas you guys are changing the status quo from the source?
 What's the relationship between the two for you guys?
 I mean, I think it goes into some of what Scott was just saying, which is, I think,
 the fact that everyone sort of, like, the film and television versions of a lot of these
 characters sort of become the central, like, iconic versions to a lot of people.
 And to arrest people with powerful stories in the comics, you have to do things that
 they can't do in the movies.
 Good point.
 You have to do something daring and interesting in a way that's just like, okay, this is why
 it's comics.
 Comics have no budget.
 Scott doesn't have to worry about the Bat Gordon robo suit, like, how much it's going
 to cost.
 You know, he can all of a sudden be like, okay, now it has laser launchers coming out
 of the arms and all of that.
 And now I'm like, who do I want?
 And it's just like, the only budget is our imagination.
 Exactly.
 And that is the strength of comics, is it's whatever we can come up with and excite people
 with.
 So, yeah.
 Yeah, and the only other thing I'd point out, because I thought that's beautifully said,
 is that, you know, when you come to a con like this, what you realize is, you know,
 the filmic and televisual sort of, and video game, I think, representations of these characters
 bring so many new fans in.
 This con itself, New York Comic Con, is just so robust.
 You see so many new faces, people from all walks of life loving these characters because
 they're so adaptable.
 And you realize how elastic they are.
 Because at core, they stand for certain things.
 Like Batman, for example, teaches us that no matter how tragic your circumstances are,
 no matter what sort of befalls you, no matter what obstacles you face, if you believe in
 yourself and you're determined enough, you can be the hero that you dream of being, despite
 all of the kind of hardship that you've encountered in your life.
 And if you take that as the core, you can have him in space, you can have him as an
 angry Batman, you can have him as a happier Batman, a Batman 66.
 There's so many interpretations.
 And I think those adaptations of him, when you see Batman vs. Superman or you see the
 animated series, they bring so many new fans in.
 And again, like, I don't feel there's ever been a better time to be a fan of the superhero
 world or the superhero genre.
 When you look around and see such a diverse crowd, people of all ages, all walks of life,
 race, orientation, everything, celebrating these characters in all different kinds of
 ways, I mean, it's really a vibrant and I think multifaceted fandom right now.
 So regarding Batman 44, you have Jim Gordon facing the question of gentrification and
 police brutality in Gotham City.
 What brought you into that mode, especially considering the last year?
 Well, what I would say, this story, it's all kind of energy monsters and robots in a lot
 of ways, but it's actually deeply about what Batman means to us in the real world.
 So sometimes you have a story that you translate into comic book language.
 Like, for example, the best kind of example I can cite is that The Dark Knight Returns
 to Me is a comic book language story.
 The mutants are this crazy gang and two faces running around.
 But ultimately as a kid, all the issues in that book, the Cold War, urban decay, they
 were all there just sort of in comic book language.
 And sometimes in certain stories like Zero Year we do that.
 And in other stories, like, and that's what we're doing in this one in Super Heavy, but
 once in a while you kind of peel back the comic book language and show it in straight
 prose and say, this is what this is about.
 And truthfully, when you have a Batman who has believed in the police and believed in,
 again, the systems and the mechanisms that we put in place in a city like New York or
 Baltimore or Gotham to protect ourselves, you're going to get a story where you come
 up against the hard truths and the entrenched systemic problems that Batman sometimes is
 going to see and say, what do I mean to these?
 So we wanted it really to be the keystone issue of the entire arc and to be something
 that said, this is what this story is about.
 And what I'd say is, you know, a lot of what we're, I think Batman, on the other hand,
 like one of the great things about the characters, you know, what we're doing in Batman and Robin
 Eternal, you can do a story that globetrotts.
 It's all over the place.
 And this story could not be better.
 I really, I cannot stress enough, like, doing a weekly series is hard.
 It's something that I've worked on with James and the team has come up with and Tony Daniel
 on art.
 It is probably the best Batman story of the year.
 Twenty-six issues.
 You're going to feel like you got so much bang for your buck.
 It's a mystery from the past that's come back to haunt the present in ways that I think
 you'll find really potent and resonant.
 Conspiracies and secrets.
 And in today's world, I feel like a lot of the stuff they're bringing up, even in comic
 book language, even in the most bombastic and cartoonish sort of translation, will feel
 resonant and will feel potent.
 It might not be the same issues we're talking about in Batman right now, which I think are
 particularly kind of live wire.
 But our goal as comic book writers, I think, is to always take material that's personal
 to us, always take stuff that's resonant, that matters to us, and write them through
 these characters so these characters matter.
 And I can promise you that Batman Eternal and Twenty-Six Issues is one of those stories.
 It's something that you should pick up.
 If you love Batman and Robin, it's Robin's 75th anniversary.
 You got every Robin.
 You got a brand new villain who's scary in the way that I think a today villain should
 be scary.
 And you got a great team on the book.
 It's really something I'm proud to be affiliated with in any way.
 Awesome.
 Thanks so much, Scott.
 Sure.
 Thank you.
 James.
 Thanks.
 Thank you so much.