 Hi, I'm Dieter Bohn. I'm Nila Epitel. And we are here with the guys behind the design for the all-new LG WebOS TV, and we want to bring you in to talk a little bit more about it because we've got a lot of questions. Yeah, so, E-type On-Shot, Call and Drive. Hi guys, how's it going? Yeah, how's TS going? Stay one. Wow, it's been awesome. You know, we're kind of running on fumes here, adrenaline and coffee of course. But it's been really great to be at the booth there explaining our product to people and having them really get the make TV simple again message. You know, people just get the UI, people just understand how to use it. And that's been super fulfilling. Yeah, the booth is full. People are really coming in, very excited. There's a lot of goodwill towards WebOS and all the work we've done. So, that's a great launch. Well, that's interesting, the goodwill towards WebOS because CS, the biggest thing that's ever happened to me to CS was the original launch of WebOS. And everyone loved the product and the idea and the theories of the operating system. And then a lot of stuff happened. And now you're relaunching WebOS here as a TV product, which is, I don't think anybody could have predicted that when Palm originally introduced WebOS here. What's it like to sort of relaunch a product like this? Yeah, it's great. The feeling that we've worked on it for so long and finally being able to show it to the public and also explaining to people why we thought WebOS makes sense on a TV. So, that was one of the questions that people always ask is, why are you doing a TV? It makes total sense once you understand that TVs are about switching. TVs are about doing one thing, one minute, and then doing something else. And WebOS always struggled with bringing the message of why multitasking is important to the public. But people multitask all the time on TV, they just don't call it that way, they just switch. And that was the core, and that was the thing that we realized, and that's why we're so excited about bringing it to TVs. So, the number one thing you switch on TV is channels, right? Like live television channels. Because that's where content is. But you want to switch between the game you're watching and maybe something on Netflix if it's boring, and then you're done, you want to go somewhere else, this is what you're switching. And then you might want to go back and check in what's happening on TV. So, yes, you are switching channels, but you're also, the more we talk about over-the-top content, you're going to switch between different sources. And so, the WebOS on TV, you try and treat all sources as sort of equal citizens, they're all just inputs, right? So you can switch between Netflix or your HDMI 1 or your Xbox on HDMI 3 or whatever it is. But the TV input is a really complicated one, because there's cable boxes, and they've got their own UI for navigating channels, there's live TV, there's DVRs. So, it makes really good sense for understanding how I'm going to switch across that line, past, present, and future, between Netflix and Hulu. But I'm wondering, that simple line, if you guys are trying to make it very simple, how are you dealing with the very complex world of everything else that's happening with channels on TV? Sure thing. So let me give some thoughts there. There's really three things we need to solve. First is control, then discovery, then integration. So let me talk about each one. So, obviously if you have a TV set-top box or something like that, you need ways to control it. And a metric remote control actually comes with an IR blaster built in. And so, as you set up our TV and we recognize your set-top box, or you tell us what set-top box you have, we actually have a way to make sure that you're using one remote control to control your set-top boxes, so you're not swapping remotes. Right, but you are swapping UIs, right? So you've got the WebOS UI, which is the beautiful, well-designed interface that I want to use, which is beautiful in all design. And then you've got your cable blocks, which is awful. And you're using the same remote to control both of them. Did you guys think about that stuff, or did you say, look, that problem is too hard, let's do the best job of solving the problems we can? So how we're solving that is through the discovery component. So you really have a lot of content you can watch. That's across your over-the-top content as well as your live TV. And we come up with various ways to harmonize this. So if you look at our Today menu, for example, you can actually discover content across live TV and your streaming content. So you could, of course, choose to go to your set-top box and to the EPG to find out this data, but we're trying to integrate this and to help users out with the discovery aspect as well by making sure that from a metadata standpoint, we have this complete set of metadata, and for modeling this metadata to various user experiences, which help users break down the barriers between what you can watch on live TV and what you can stream. So we're outlining the challenges that need to be solved. And the question I've always had since LG purchased WebOS was, why do you need WebOS to solve these problems? Because every TV manufacturer here knows these challenges, right? There's discovery, there's so much content now, there's so many sources of the content, the content's different, like Netflix and Hulu have different things, then there's the cable box and there's DVR you can't even talk to. But what is it about WebOS that makes it different? So we said one thing was it's about switching. Switching is super cool, and you can see that we're sub one second right now. You can switch between things, and that's great, and it feels great, and it feels right. But WebOS is a philosophy more than anything else. It is an operating system, but it's a feeling. It's mostly a thought. You know what I mean. Well, actually, when people think of WebOS, they think of that card interface, right? So translating that is weird. I mean, on TV, it's not about apps. It's about content. And what we as LG want to make sure is that content is available to everybody, not in closed gardens. Closed gardens, I buy it here, I can't watch it there. I want everything to be available on the web all the time. And in that respect, WebOS is the best thing for that. We want everybody to build HTML5 apps. We want to make sure that HTML is a first-class citizen in all the devices. And once all our partners build things for the web, they're available everywhere. And that's the right path for this industry, and that's what LG wanted to do. They really wanted to make sure that they have the ability to continue innovating as a hardware-based company and making sure that software and the web are available for everybody. That way, you push content to everybody. Here's a really weird question. Do you have a browser on this TV? Yep. A web browser? So that has never, as far as I can tell, that has never truly worked on a television, right? It's almost like you have a browser because you're betting so big on HTML5 that you can just have one because it's going to be there, right? What is it about the browser on the television that's never worked? But then, what is it about HTML5 that works so well? It's a strange question because Google bets so big on the browser with Google TV, right? It fell down completely for them because nobody wants a browser on their TV. But I see the bet on HTML5 as an app platform for television as being really smart. I can't quite figure out why. Do you guys think about this stuff? Yeah. So I can start, and then Colin has some other thoughts. So what's the usage scene here? So you come home, you click and then browse and CNN. You don't want to go through the... It's not the same thing as a browser. And we have browsers on TV today because there is some sort of segment of people that actually want to do that, but it's not the core. You'll see we're not promoting that. The difference is that apps can be optimized for the TV, and they can be placed at a different, so much more accessible place in the browser where you have to go and start typing and going through all that. Essentially, WebOS is the browser. That is the browser. That is the chrome of a browser. It allows you to switch between tabs, cards, call them whatever you want. It's the same thing. It's accessing the web. It's just WebOS is the browser. Yeah. I think it's kind of about double-clicking on the statement, making something a first-class citizen. What we've done right now already, back in the day, TV was the first-class citizen on the TV, and your content apps were the second-class citizens. We brought that to an equal level and made those first-class citizens. Let me push that a little bit. Absolutely. TV is still a cable box or a satellite box for most people, right? True. How do you bring... Once you start using your cable box, you shunt it off into a different interface. That to me is the challenge of making a television you own, is that somebody else owns a big chunk of it and you have no way to get at it. How do you fight that with something like WebOS, which is... You basically bolted a smartphone to the back of a TV and made it run a world-class mobile operating system. That's effectively what you've done, right? No, I think that we've actually done something very different from that. Really? Yeah. We've actually figured out what the right experiences on the TV powered by this mobile operating system, or what used to be a mobile operating system. I guess it's not very mobile anymore. Yeah. It's the biggest tablet in the world. We're somewhat portable with two people. But it's really about how we redefine the TV as a form factor. Yes. Yes, TV and cable box is really important, and we have some ways to control the cable box. But I do think, as we've seen, for example, Reed Hastings' announcement in our LG Press conference, that 4K content now is available as the first pipe to the Internet. Whereas previously, regular content, the first pipe was cable boxes. So we do see this evolution to online streaming content, and that's why we're bringing up all these different content sources and equalizing the paling field there. We think people like whatever has content. So right now, it comes from their great service from the cable companies. And cable companies also want to be integrated into smart TVs. There are more and more cable companies that are moving towards apps. Right. You did a Dish app, right? Is that coming to the webOS platform or is that... Absolutely. Because they announce it first, so you never know. At CES, it's always like when a partner announces something first and then you make the big announcement, it's always like, was that coordinated? So it's definitely coming. Yes. Okay, so using HTML to make apps for TV seems to make really good sense, and you guys have got a really nice interface, and we've already tried to talk about the challenge of the horrible interface from the cable box. But one of the other problems with smart TVs is everybody's making their own apps in HTML5 or wherever, and they look and feel very different, and you kind of lose your way to navigate it. And is this going to pop over? Is it going to take me to a different screen? How are you guys managing that? Are you enforcing guidelines? Are you letting people do whatever they want? We love the open web, and we want people to innovate. However, you're right, it does create a bit of a mess. So we're going to talk a lot more about that come February in Apps World, but we're working really hard on creating great tools for developers that they can start with patterns that we've done for them. There will be a lot more about that coming soon. So you're going to lock down UI elements you're going to have? You know a lot about NEO and our heritage there, and we're continuing and taking that forward. It's not locked down. So you're not going to provide UI parameters to people? No, we are. But I think it's really more about education. So if you take a page from history and you look at the mobile web, the mobile web kind of had different kinds of design patterns and all, until someone managed to define a category and define the kind of designs that we see today, like big buttons, easy to tap buttons. The back idea. Yeah, the idea of back and stuff like that. And I think that's what we're trying to do here, which is we're not here to enforce something. We really respect openness and we believe in it. But we're here to sort of educate and come up with the best practices for designs on the TV. I'll give you an example. So a lot of what we're seeing is people do, they translate their interface from a tablet. So they put some options here, you click an option, you click something else, and then you get finally to some piece of content and you click it and then it plays. Then if you want to bring up the UI, you take away the content, and again, it puts it full screen. It's probably not the right way to go. So we're really trying to explain to people, okay, you can actually have the content running in the background. You can have UI overlay. It should overlay from this direction. There's a lot of attention to that level of consistency. So actually that's kind of my big, the overarching question is, you guys did have a mobile operating system. It's actually hard for me to stop thinking of WebOS as a mobile operating system. That's what it's roots. When LG purchased WebOS and you guys met everybody for the first time, what were those initial conversations like about how to take something that was about being used in one hand, tactile with touch, to LG's remote, which is one of the craziest remotes in the market, right? It has like a scroll wheel and it has like a motion tracking. What was that conversation like in the early stages to bring something that was all about touch to something that was a UI at a much farther distance? So we actually started doing that before we were acquired. Really? Yes, because we really believed that TV is a great space. We started working on it and we looked at the market and we definitely identified that the D-pad or 5-way is what most of the people are working on. But we liked LG's approach because it allows us to have a better cross-platform story in one hand, where you can take web apps or web thinking and bring them over. It's easier. And the second thing is that we did notice that it's pretty good. People do use it over time and they get used to it and actually use it really well. So the story was for us more to figure out how do we optimize for two interfaces together. Since we didn't want to just copy the WebOS interface from phones to TV, it was never about adapting the UI to a TV. It was just reinventing the UI from scratch. And you were doing that before you got acquired by LG? Yes. Wow. What did that look like? Were you just blue sky like maybe we'll build a TV someday? The story of SVL and how SVL became SVL. SVL, can you explain what that is real quick? It's the Silicon Valley Lab. So we were working on reinventing WebOS with partners. And it was clear to us that we need to figure out what partners want. And LG was one of the best and earliest partners that we had. And they were so good that it made sense to... But we started working with it a little bit probably a few months before the acquisition. So we're like 15 minutes in and we haven't talked about the banner thing that everybody noticed about WebOS TV, which is Beanbird. Awesome. It should always be there. You've noticed. People do like Beanbird. So the idea behind Beanbird is that it's there to help you get through setup because you don't set up your TV, then your experience sucks. So how did you come up with this character and why did you decide you want the character to go away after setup? So Beanbird is a relic from... We really started experimenting with this idea of a UI that is a little bit snarky, has a voice. It's cute, but it's not overly cute, unlike what you wrote. Oh, snap. And what we wanted to put it to use is figuring out, okay, how can we create an emotional connection and people being excited about their TV? That's why we wanted it at the beginning. The other thing is, remember all that cool stuff Colin was explaining about how the remote can talk to your cable box? Well, you won't get that if you don't go through all the steps of first use. So we know that we can give you a much better interface the more you go through first use. So that's where we decided to focus it. So it's about production value, making you just realize, oh, I bought this great device and it looks different and there's this level of newness, which personally I think people expect from webOS. Right. And then, okay, you're done and now we're just a TV. We're about being quick and about no fuss, just moving between things. Here's my idea and I'm just putting it out there. So if you take it and if you make it, I'll buy it for you. Don't take it. Beanbird should always be there. Then it turns into Clippy. Listening for what you want to watch. So if you want to watch a movie, you're like, Beanbird, I want to watch this movie. And then it should help you locate what streaming services it's on, how much it costs, where it's free if it's on television. Beanbird should always just be there, kind of like having suggestions and ideas. So last year it called and they want their idea back. Really? Yes. It doesn't work? It works. LG last year had that with the avatar. Okay. It's a great idea. Wow. So last year is like you took it away. But it wasn't Beanbird. It wasn't Qt. That avatar, I mean, I know you guys work for LG now, but LG software last year was awful. Right? That's why they bought webOS. And this is like a big theme, right, is these big hardware companies understanding that they need to get better at design, understanding that they need to hire real software engineers. This is a big reason they acquired webOS. And I'm saying now that they've done it, they've got the talent, the clear, blazing talent here, it's time for that idea to be resurrected as Beanbird. Beanbird is the brainchild of Liron. Nothing. Just totally flourishing. No, no, I'm giving you here. That was a great compliment. I wasted it. Thank you. And credit. So Beanbird is the brainchild of Liron Damir, our art director. And I think we are looking at how do we make the design more emotional, getting people connected. It's not just about Beanbird. We are going to do more things. I think one of the things that happened this year for webOS is that we were able to merge with a company that really understands hardware and distribution and how to get things done. But doesn't understand software at all. I think we're helping there. We're helping there and we're helping definitely not just in software, but also how to think about software. At NSVL, we're trying to bring the best of Silicon Valley to LG. And LG is really investing in its Silicon Valley presence. There are two labs, one in San Francisco and one in Santa Clara. And it's been a great experience trying to bring those two cultures together, not just a Korean versus an American culture. It's more of a manufacturing company and then this innovative software group. How do they work together? Are you going to take over their phones anytime soon? That's the obvious question. Hey, that's for you, Colin. Great question. So we're definitely focusing on TVs right now. And I think, you know, as a lawyer handed you a card. I think the more important thing, as you said just now, is really more about the problem-solving approach of webOS as a whole, what our team as a whole takes to dealing with the different devices you have. We believe in openness and we want to be what we call proactively open, which is we actually go out of the way. Does that mean open source? No, not open sourcing, but it's about how you deal with your ecosystem of devices. So, you know, basic openness is about allowing things to run on your platform or not run on your devices. But I think being proactively open is about doing the extra work to make sure that devices work better with our TVs. For example, our different consumer electronics devices we make. You know, we've, and you'll see in the apps world, but I'll tease a bit here, that we are creating this thing called the LG Connect, second screen APIs, which really allow, you know, phones and applications with integrated to immediately push stuff to a TV without pairing. You know, completely simple experiences. And so we are doing the extra work to create stuff that allows our devices to work better with what you have out there and what you already own. Okay, so what is next for webOS? So I can, on the phone discussion, also on that, I can promise you this, what we want to do is we don't want to do devices just for the heck of doing another phone or just for, we want to understand why webOS would be the great thing there. Like we tried to really figure out for TV, okay, why would this be great on TV? How would we do device that would be so much better because we use webOS? That's the first thing we want. We really want to nail that before we touch it. And that's also some of the approach that we're trying to bring to LG, just like a product level thinking. It's not about adding features, it's about getting the right features in. So what's next? I think we're going to continue working on TV. We have a lot more to do with cable and integrating content sources. And then we have a lot more to do with ecosystems and how do we bring more devices in. Sure. Okay. Cool. Well, I think we're out of time. But Tai, Colin, thank you so much for coming in. Thank you so much. And we'll keep watching.
 Hi, I'm Dieter Bohn.
 I'm Nila Epitel.
 And we are here with the guys behind the design for the all-new LG WebOS TV,
 and we want to bring you in to talk a little bit more about it because we've got a lot of questions.
 Yeah, so, E-type On-Shot, Call and Drive.
 Hi guys, how's it going?
 Yeah, how's TS going? Stay one.
 Wow, it's been awesome. You know, we're kind of running on fumes here,
 adrenaline and coffee of course.
 But it's been really great to be at the booth there explaining our product to people
 and having them really get the make TV simple again message.
 You know, people just get the UI, people just understand how to use it.
 And that's been super fulfilling.
 Yeah, the booth is full. People are really coming in, very excited.
 There's a lot of goodwill towards WebOS and all the work we've done.
 So, that's a great launch.
 Well, that's interesting, the goodwill towards WebOS because CS,
 the biggest thing that's ever happened to me to CS was the original launch of WebOS.
 And everyone loved the product and the idea and the theories of the operating system.
 And then a lot of stuff happened.
 And now you're relaunching WebOS here as a TV product,
 which is, I don't think anybody could have predicted that
 when Palm originally introduced WebOS here.
 What's it like to sort of relaunch a product like this?
 Yeah, it's great.
 The feeling that we've worked on it for so long and finally being able to show it to the public
 and also explaining to people why we thought WebOS makes sense on a TV.
 So, that was one of the questions that people always ask is,
 why are you doing a TV?
 It makes total sense once you understand that TVs are about switching.
 TVs are about doing one thing, one minute, and then doing something else.
 And WebOS always struggled with bringing the message of why multitasking is important to the public.
 But people multitask all the time on TV, they just don't call it that way, they just switch.
 And that was the core, and that was the thing that we realized,
 and that's why we're so excited about bringing it to TVs.
 So, the number one thing you switch on TV is channels, right?
 Like live television channels.
 Because that's where content is.
 But you want to switch between the game you're watching and maybe something on Netflix if it's boring,
 and then you're done, you want to go somewhere else, this is what you're switching.
 And then you might want to go back and check in what's happening on TV.
 So, yes, you are switching channels, but you're also,
 the more we talk about over-the-top content, you're going to switch between different sources.
 And so, the WebOS on TV, you try and treat all sources as sort of equal citizens,
 they're all just inputs, right?
 So you can switch between Netflix or your HDMI 1 or your Xbox on HDMI 3 or whatever it is.
 But the TV input is a really complicated one, because there's cable boxes,
 and they've got their own UI for navigating channels, there's live TV, there's DVRs.
 So, it makes really good sense for understanding how I'm going to switch across that line,
 past, present, and future, between Netflix and Hulu.
 But I'm wondering, that simple line, if you guys are trying to make it very simple,
 how are you dealing with the very complex world of everything else that's happening with channels on TV?
 Sure thing.
 So let me give some thoughts there.
 There's really three things we need to solve.
 First is control, then discovery, then integration.
 So let me talk about each one.
 So, obviously if you have a TV set-top box or something like that, you need ways to control it.
 And a metric remote control actually comes with an IR blaster built in.
 And so, as you set up our TV and we recognize your set-top box, or you tell us what set-top box you have,
 we actually have a way to make sure that you're using one remote control to control your set-top boxes,
 so you're not swapping remotes.
 Right, but you are swapping UIs, right?
 So you've got the WebOS UI, which is the beautiful, well-designed interface that I want to use,
 which is beautiful in all design.
 And then you've got your cable blocks, which is awful.
 And you're using the same remote to control both of them.
 Did you guys think about that stuff, or did you say, look, that problem is too hard,
 let's do the best job of solving the problems we can?
 So how we're solving that is through the discovery component.
 So you really have a lot of content you can watch.
 That's across your over-the-top content as well as your live TV.
 And we come up with various ways to harmonize this.
 So if you look at our Today menu, for example, you can actually discover content across live TV
 and your streaming content.
 So you could, of course, choose to go to your set-top box and to the EPG to find out this data,
 but we're trying to integrate this and to help users out with the discovery aspect as well
 by making sure that from a metadata standpoint, we have this complete set of metadata,
 and for modeling this metadata to various user experiences, which help users break down the barriers
 between what you can watch on live TV and what you can stream.
 So we're outlining the challenges that need to be solved.
 And the question I've always had since LG purchased WebOS was,
 why do you need WebOS to solve these problems?
 Because every TV manufacturer here knows these challenges, right?
 There's discovery, there's so much content now, there's so many sources of the content,
 the content's different, like Netflix and Hulu have different things,
 then there's the cable box and there's DVR you can't even talk to.
 But what is it about WebOS that makes it different?
 So we said one thing was it's about switching.
 Switching is super cool, and you can see that we're sub one second right now.
 You can switch between things, and that's great, and it feels great, and it feels right.
 But WebOS is a philosophy more than anything else.
 It is an operating system, but it's a feeling.
 It's mostly a thought.
 You know what I mean.
 Well, actually, when people think of WebOS, they think of that card interface, right?
 So translating that is weird.
 I mean, on TV, it's not about apps. It's about content.
 And what we as LG want to make sure is that content is available to everybody,
 not in closed gardens.
 Closed gardens, I buy it here, I can't watch it there.
 I want everything to be available on the web all the time.
 And in that respect, WebOS is the best thing for that.
 We want everybody to build HTML5 apps.
 We want to make sure that HTML is a first-class citizen in all the devices.
 And once all our partners build things for the web, they're available everywhere.
 And that's the right path for this industry, and that's what LG wanted to do.
 They really wanted to make sure that they have the ability to continue innovating as a hardware-based company
 and making sure that software and the web are available for everybody.
 That way, you push content to everybody.
 Here's a really weird question.
 Do you have a browser on this TV?
 Yep.
 A web browser?
 So that has never, as far as I can tell, that has never truly worked on a television, right?
 It's almost like you have a browser because you're betting so big on HTML5
 that you can just have one because it's going to be there, right?
 What is it about the browser on the television that's never worked?
 But then, what is it about HTML5 that works so well?
 It's a strange question because Google bets so big on the browser with Google TV, right?
 It fell down completely for them because nobody wants a browser on their TV.
 But I see the bet on HTML5 as an app platform for television as being really smart.
 I can't quite figure out why.
 Do you guys think about this stuff?
 Yeah.
 So I can start, and then Colin has some other thoughts.
 So what's the usage scene here?
 So you come home, you click and then browse and CNN.
 You don't want to go through the...
 It's not the same thing as a browser.
 And we have browsers on TV today because there is some sort of segment of people that actually want to do that,
 but it's not the core.
 You'll see we're not promoting that.
 The difference is that apps can be optimized for the TV,
 and they can be placed at a different, so much more accessible place in the browser
 where you have to go and start typing and going through all that.
 Essentially, WebOS is the browser.
 That is the browser.
 That is the chrome of a browser.
 It allows you to switch between tabs, cards, call them whatever you want.
 It's the same thing.
 It's accessing the web.
 It's just WebOS is the browser.
 Yeah.
 I think it's kind of about double-clicking on the statement, making something a first-class citizen.
 What we've done right now already, back in the day, TV was the first-class citizen on the TV,
 and your content apps were the second-class citizens.
 We brought that to an equal level and made those first-class citizens.
 Let me push that a little bit.
 Absolutely.
 TV is still a cable box or a satellite box for most people, right?
 True.
 How do you bring...
 Once you start using your cable box, you shunt it off into a different interface.
 That to me is the challenge of making a television you own,
 is that somebody else owns a big chunk of it and you have no way to get at it.
 How do you fight that with something like WebOS,
 which is...
 You basically bolted a smartphone to the back of a TV
 and made it run a world-class mobile operating system.
 That's effectively what you've done, right?
 No, I think that we've actually done something very different from that.
 Really?
 Yeah.
 We've actually figured out what the right experiences on the TV powered by this mobile operating system,
 or what used to be a mobile operating system.
 I guess it's not very mobile anymore.
 Yeah.
 It's the biggest tablet in the world.
 We're somewhat portable with two people.
 But it's really about how we redefine the TV as a form factor.
 Yes.
 Yes, TV and cable box is really important,
 and we have some ways to control the cable box.
 But I do think, as we've seen, for example,
 Reed Hastings' announcement in our LG Press conference,
 that 4K content now is available as the first pipe to the Internet.
 Whereas previously, regular content, the first pipe was cable boxes.
 So we do see this evolution to online streaming content,
 and that's why we're bringing up all these different content sources
 and equalizing the paling field there.
 We think people like whatever has content.
 So right now, it comes from their great service from the cable companies.
 And cable companies also want to be integrated into smart TVs.
 There are more and more cable companies that are moving towards apps.
 Right.
 You did a Dish app, right?
 Is that coming to the webOS platform or is that...
 Absolutely.
 Because they announce it first, so you never know.
 At CES, it's always like when a partner announces something first
 and then you make the big announcement, it's always like,
 was that coordinated?
 So it's definitely coming.
 Yes.
 Okay, so using HTML to make apps for TV seems to make really good sense,
 and you guys have got a really nice interface,
 and we've already tried to talk about the challenge
 of the horrible interface from the cable box.
 But one of the other problems with smart TVs
 is everybody's making their own apps in HTML5 or wherever,
 and they look and feel very different,
 and you kind of lose your way to navigate it.
 And is this going to pop over? Is it going to take me to a different screen?
 How are you guys managing that? Are you enforcing guidelines?
 Are you letting people do whatever they want?
 We love the open web, and we want people to innovate.
 However, you're right, it does create a bit of a mess.
 So we're going to talk a lot more about that come February in Apps World,
 but we're working really hard on creating great tools for developers
 that they can start with patterns that we've done for them.
 There will be a lot more about that coming soon.
 So you're going to lock down UI elements you're going to have?
 You know a lot about NEO and our heritage there,
 and we're continuing and taking that forward.
 It's not locked down.
 So you're not going to provide UI parameters to people?
 No, we are.
 But I think it's really more about education.
 So if you take a page from history and you look at the mobile web,
 the mobile web kind of had different kinds of design patterns and all,
 until someone managed to define a category and define the kind of designs
 that we see today, like big buttons, easy to tap buttons.
 The back idea.
 Yeah, the idea of back and stuff like that.
 And I think that's what we're trying to do here,
 which is we're not here to enforce something.
 We really respect openness and we believe in it.
 But we're here to sort of educate and come up with the best practices
 for designs on the TV.
 I'll give you an example.
 So a lot of what we're seeing is people do,
 they translate their interface from a tablet.
 So they put some options here, you click an option,
 you click something else,
 and then you get finally to some piece of content and you click it
 and then it plays.
 Then if you want to bring up the UI, you take away the content,
 and again, it puts it full screen.
 It's probably not the right way to go.
 So we're really trying to explain to people, okay,
 you can actually have the content running in the background.
 You can have UI overlay.
 It should overlay from this direction.
 There's a lot of attention to that level of consistency.
 So actually that's kind of my big, the overarching question is,
 you guys did have a mobile operating system.
 It's actually hard for me to stop thinking of WebOS as a mobile operating system.
 That's what it's roots.
 When LG purchased WebOS and you guys met everybody for the first time,
 what were those initial conversations like about how to take something
 that was about being used in one hand, tactile with touch,
 to LG's remote, which is one of the craziest remotes in the market, right?
 It has like a scroll wheel and it has like a motion tracking.
 What was that conversation like in the early stages to bring something
 that was all about touch to something that was a UI at a much farther distance?
 So we actually started doing that before we were acquired.
 Really?
 Yes, because we really believed that TV is a great space.
 We started working on it and we looked at the market
 and we definitely identified that the D-pad or 5-way is what most of the people are working on.
 But we liked LG's approach because it allows us to have a better cross-platform story in one hand,
 where you can take web apps or web thinking and bring them over.
 It's easier.
 And the second thing is that we did notice that it's pretty good.
 People do use it over time and they get used to it and actually use it really well.
 So the story was for us more to figure out how do we optimize for two interfaces together.
 Since we didn't want to just copy the WebOS interface from phones to TV,
 it was never about adapting the UI to a TV.
 It was just reinventing the UI from scratch.
 And you were doing that before you got acquired by LG?
 Yes.
 Wow.
 What did that look like?
 Were you just blue sky like maybe we'll build a TV someday?
 The story of SVL and how SVL became SVL.
 SVL, can you explain what that is real quick?
 It's the Silicon Valley Lab.
 So we were working on reinventing WebOS with partners.
 And it was clear to us that we need to figure out what partners want.
 And LG was one of the best and earliest partners that we had.
 And they were so good that it made sense to...
 But we started working with it a little bit probably a few months before the acquisition.
 So we're like 15 minutes in and we haven't talked about the banner thing that everybody noticed about WebOS TV,
 which is Beanbird.
 Awesome.
 It should always be there.
 You've noticed.
 People do like Beanbird.
 So the idea behind Beanbird is that it's there to help you get through setup because you don't set up your TV,
 then your experience sucks.
 So how did you come up with this character and why did you decide you want the character to go away after setup?
 So Beanbird is a relic from...
 We really started experimenting with this idea of a UI that is a little bit snarky, has a voice.
 It's cute, but it's not overly cute, unlike what you wrote.
 Oh, snap.
 And what we wanted to put it to use is figuring out, okay, how can we create an emotional connection
 and people being excited about their TV?
 That's why we wanted it at the beginning.
 The other thing is, remember all that cool stuff Colin was explaining about how the remote can talk to your cable box?
 Well, you won't get that if you don't go through all the steps of first use.
 So we know that we can give you a much better interface the more you go through first use.
 So that's where we decided to focus it.
 So it's about production value, making you just realize, oh, I bought this great device and it looks different
 and there's this level of newness, which personally I think people expect from webOS.
 Right.
 And then, okay, you're done and now we're just a TV.
 We're about being quick and about no fuss, just moving between things.
 Here's my idea and I'm just putting it out there.
 So if you take it and if you make it, I'll buy it for you.
 Don't take it.
 Beanbird should always be there.
 Then it turns into Clippy.
 Listening for what you want to watch.
 So if you want to watch a movie, you're like, Beanbird, I want to watch this movie.
 And then it should help you locate what streaming services it's on,
 how much it costs, where it's free if it's on television.
 Beanbird should always just be there, kind of like having suggestions and ideas.
 So last year it called and they want their idea back.
 Really?
 Yes.
 It doesn't work?
 It works.
 LG last year had that with the avatar.
 Okay.
 It's a great idea.
 Wow.
 So last year is like you took it away.
 But it wasn't Beanbird.
 It wasn't Qt.
 That avatar, I mean, I know you guys work for LG now,
 but LG software last year was awful.
 Right?
 That's why they bought webOS.
 And this is like a big theme, right, is these big hardware companies
 understanding that they need to get better at design,
 understanding that they need to hire real software engineers.
 This is a big reason they acquired webOS.
 And I'm saying now that they've done it, they've got the talent,
 the clear, blazing talent here,
 it's time for that idea to be resurrected as Beanbird.
 Beanbird is the brainchild of Liron.
 Nothing.
 Just totally flourishing.
 No, no, I'm giving you here.
 That was a great compliment.
 I wasted it.
 Thank you.
 And credit.
 So Beanbird is the brainchild of Liron Damir, our art director.
 And I think we are looking at how do we make the design more emotional,
 getting people connected.
 It's not just about Beanbird.
 We are going to do more things.
 I think one of the things that happened this year for webOS
 is that we were able to merge with a company that really understands
 hardware and distribution and how to get things done.
 But doesn't understand software at all.
 I think we're helping there.
 We're helping there and we're helping definitely not just in software,
 but also how to think about software.
 At NSVL, we're trying to bring the best of Silicon Valley to LG.
 And LG is really investing in its Silicon Valley presence.
 There are two labs, one in San Francisco and one in Santa Clara.
 And it's been a great experience trying to bring those two cultures together,
 not just a Korean versus an American culture.
 It's more of a manufacturing company and then this innovative software group.
 How do they work together?
 Are you going to take over their phones anytime soon?
 That's the obvious question.
 Hey, that's for you, Colin.
 Great question.
 So we're definitely focusing on TVs right now.
 And I think, you know, as a lawyer handed you a card.
 I think the more important thing, as you said just now,
 is really more about the problem-solving approach of webOS as a whole,
 what our team as a whole takes to dealing with the different devices you have.
 We believe in openness and we want to be what we call proactively open,
 which is we actually go out of the way.
 Does that mean open source?
 No, not open sourcing, but it's about how you deal with your ecosystem of devices.
 So, you know, basic openness is about allowing things to run on your platform
 or not run on your devices.
 But I think being proactively open is about doing the extra work
 to make sure that devices work better with our TVs.
 For example, our different consumer electronics devices we make.
 You know, we've, and you'll see in the apps world, but I'll tease a bit here,
 that we are creating this thing called the LG Connect, second screen APIs,
 which really allow, you know, phones and applications with integrated
 to immediately push stuff to a TV without pairing.
 You know, completely simple experiences.
 And so we are doing the extra work to create stuff that allows our devices
 to work better with what you have out there and what you already own.
 Okay, so what is next for webOS?
 So I can, on the phone discussion, also on that,
 I can promise you this, what we want to do is we don't want to do devices
 just for the heck of doing another phone or just for,
 we want to understand why webOS would be the great thing there.
 Like we tried to really figure out for TV, okay, why would this be great on TV?
 How would we do device that would be so much better because we use webOS?
 That's the first thing we want.
 We really want to nail that before we touch it.
 And that's also some of the approach that we're trying to bring to LG,
 just like a product level thinking.
 It's not about adding features, it's about getting the right features in.
 So what's next? I think we're going to continue working on TV.
 We have a lot more to do with cable and integrating content sources.
 And then we have a lot more to do with ecosystems and how do we bring more devices in.
 Sure. Okay. Cool. Well, I think we're out of time.
 But Tai, Colin, thank you so much for coming in.
 Thank you so much.
 And we'll keep watching.