 You told me when we talked you said Honeycomb was a crash landing. Emergency landing. Do you recall saying that? Oh, an emergency landing. So the plane didn't crash, you landed. We were able to walk away. I'm still here, I have both legs. But you weren't totally satisfied with what you did. Well, I'm never satisfied with anything. But Honeycomb was a time boxed effort. Right. And now ice cream sandwiches come in and it's... You're taking a really strong attitude towards design with this. I mean, you're not only revamping the phone OS and you're unifying tablets and phones, but you're also doing some more daring stuff like you guys have designed your own font. That's right. For this called Roboto. And a lot of people are very angry about that. Do you guys know about the Roboto controversy? It's actually like a font-roversy, really. I've been waiting all night to say that. No, but people have complained that it looks too much like Helvetica, that it's an ugly font, that it's got weird edges. And you've actually written some posts about this on Google Plus talking about it. That's right. You're very upset that people would diss your font. Can you talk about that at all? Nobody likes it. When they call your children ugly, nobody likes it. Sadistic people might like it. People who have Dungeons, for instance. I've got to stop. I don't know why. I'm so sorry. I'm going to sit over at this end of the couch, actually. You might want to go all the way down. But John Gruber from Daring Fireball, he was pretty angry about it. Some typography nerds have written scathing critiques. There's kind of two different types of critiques of Roboto, one of which I totally get, which is what we set out to do, which was kind of provoke some discussion in the typographic community about some of the choices we made. We knew that traditional choices for grotesque weren't going to work. They weren't going to have quite the legibility we wanted, but we wanted something that had a little bit of that geometric purity. So we did some stuff that was a little bit design-forward. That is part of the discussion. If you can't tell the difference between Roboto and Helvetica, I don't think you're part of that discussion. Really? What about the attacks that it's just a bad font, that it just isn't designed well? Do you feel like that's a valid argument to make? I don't. That is the conversation we want to engage in. When sans serifs were originally invented, the first designs, they were called grotesque as an insult because people thought, oh my god, this is like a horrible mishmash of these styles that just don't mesh. They're like, how can I read this without the things hanging off of it? That's right. It's not pointy enough. I don't get it. What is this? It was an insult that says these letters are so crude, they had to have been drawn by a caveman living in a cave. That's grotesque. A lot of people think Roboto. Yes. But you disagree. I actually think it's a good looking font. I think it's great. You did this at Palm. I don't know if you guys know, he basically designed all of WebOS. Well, not all of it, but you're the godfather of WebOS. Does it pain you to see the story of WebOS? I don't want to get sidetracked, but does that hurt you? Yeah, it does. Everything that you work on that doesn't succeed the way you want it to, it doesn't happen when it doesn't succeed. People are ripping off cards everywhere, so you're kind of winning a little bit. Good ideas tend to survive. But I think it's cool that you guys are doing something where you're like, hey, we're going to just create a font out of nothing. Well, it's important. It is really important to have good font choices, good typography, underpinning what you're trying to do. So it's important for WebOS. We did a whole suite of custom fonts at Danger. Because these mobile devices, these interactive displays, they're a different type of font challenge. So like I talk about ad nauseam for Roboto, if you really, really care, and you're really a big font geek, read the posts. I'll go on for pages and pages. But there were really unique problems. I think it's important to just take something off the shelf.
 You told me when we talked you said Honeycomb was a crash landing.
 Emergency landing.
 Do you recall saying that? Oh, an emergency landing.
 So the plane didn't crash, you landed.
 We were able to walk away.
 I'm still here, I have both legs.
 But you weren't totally satisfied with what you did.
 Well, I'm never satisfied with anything.
 But Honeycomb was a time boxed effort.
 Right. And now ice cream sandwiches come in and it's...
 You're taking a really strong attitude towards design with this.
 I mean, you're not only revamping the phone OS and you're unifying tablets and phones,
 but you're also doing some more daring stuff like you guys have designed your own font.
 That's right. For this called Roboto.
 And a lot of people are very angry about that.
 Do you guys know about the Roboto controversy?
 It's actually like a font-roversy, really.
 I've been waiting all night to say that.
 No, but people have complained that it looks too much like Helvetica,
 that it's an ugly font, that it's got weird edges.
 And you've actually written some posts about this on Google Plus talking about it.
 That's right.
 You're very upset that people would diss your font.
 Can you talk about that at all?
 Nobody likes it. When they call your children ugly, nobody likes it.
 Sadistic people might like it.
 People who have Dungeons, for instance.
 I've got to stop. I don't know why. I'm so sorry.
 I'm going to sit over at this end of the couch, actually.
 You might want to go all the way down.
 But John Gruber from Daring Fireball, he was pretty angry about it.
 Some typography nerds have written scathing critiques.
 There's kind of two different types of critiques of Roboto,
 one of which I totally get, which is what we set out to do,
 which was kind of provoke some discussion in the typographic community
 about some of the choices we made.
 We knew that traditional choices for grotesque weren't going to work.
 They weren't going to have quite the legibility we wanted,
 but we wanted something that had a little bit of that geometric purity.
 So we did some stuff that was a little bit design-forward.
 That is part of the discussion.
 If you can't tell the difference between Roboto and Helvetica,
 I don't think you're part of that discussion.
 Really?
 What about the attacks that it's just a bad font,
 that it just isn't designed well?
 Do you feel like that's a valid argument to make?
 I don't.
 That is the conversation we want to engage in.
 When sans serifs were originally invented, the first designs,
 they were called grotesque as an insult because people thought,
 oh my god, this is like a horrible mishmash of these styles that just don't mesh.
 They're like, how can I read this without the things hanging off of it?
 That's right. It's not pointy enough. I don't get it.
 What is this?
 It was an insult that says these letters are so crude,
 they had to have been drawn by a caveman living in a cave.
 That's grotesque.
 A lot of people think Roboto.
 Yes.
 But you disagree.
 I actually think it's a good looking font.
 I think it's great. You did this at Palm.
 I don't know if you guys know, he basically designed all of WebOS.
 Well, not all of it, but you're the godfather of WebOS.
 Does it pain you to see the story of WebOS?
 I don't want to get sidetracked, but does that hurt you?
 Yeah, it does.
 Everything that you work on that doesn't succeed the way you want it to,
 it doesn't happen when it doesn't succeed.
 People are ripping off cards everywhere, so you're kind of winning a little bit.
 Good ideas tend to survive.
 But I think it's cool that you guys are doing something where you're like,
 hey, we're going to just create a font out of nothing.
 Well, it's important.
 It is really important to have good font choices, good typography,
 underpinning what you're trying to do.
 So it's important for WebOS.
 We did a whole suite of custom fonts at Danger.
 Because these mobile devices, these interactive displays,
 they're a different type of font challenge.
 So like I talk about ad nauseam for Roboto, if you really, really care,
 and you're really a big font geek, read the posts.
 I'll go on for pages and pages.
 But there were really unique problems.
 I think it's important to just take something off the shelf.