 At this point, you've probably heard about NFTs. And if you haven't, you've been living under a rock. In the past year alone, they've become a cultural phenomenon. And I want to give one to everyone in the audience. Some people hate them. Others think they're going to be the future of everything. But no matter where you fall on this divide, there's a lot to unpack here, including a booming $13 billion marketplace that's trying to become the Amazon of NFTs. But first, let's get on the same page about what an NFT actually is. Essentially, an NFT is a one-of-a-kind digital file, like these here bored apes. But it could also be a photo or a song. Largely, they are digital files stored somewhere on the internet. Mitchell Clark is a newswriter at The Verge, and he wrote The Verge's NFT explainer. He helped me, who until a few weeks ago knew little to nothing about NFTs, grasp the subject a little bit better. Most of what people think of as an NFT are actually the digital files, not what the NFT actually is. So the NFT is the record on the blockchain that stores the information about that digital file, who created it, who linked it to the blockchain, and then who bought it and who has owned it throughout its history. And that is what the actual NFT is. Those transactions are noted on the blockchain, which is essentially a public digital ledger that records transactions on the decentralized web. The fact that all the changes are made publicly and there are so many computers working on validating them all at once makes it really difficult to hack or cheat the system. Talk to me a little bit just about like some of the most ridiculous NFTs that you've seen during your reporting. There's so many. I think the first one that I thought, ah, was Logan Paul did trading cards of NFTs. You'll find just things that look like they were done in paint by a child, which generally people don't buy those. Like, let's be clear, just because you put an NFT up for sale doesn't mean that people are going to buy it. And then there's been the ones that are just downright offensive, like they're capitalizing on civil rights icons or artists who are now passed away. It's just like, I don't like that very much at all. I mean, on the flip side, have there been any that you've seen and you're like, that's actually like, if I had $100,000 to spend, I might actually buy that? I don't think that there are any of the art ones that I've been particularly interested in, but I have kind of enjoyed some of the programmatic ones. This includes NFTs that actually get you something a bit more tangible than just an entry on a blockchain, such as video games or even access to elite members-only clubs. And there are even more sentimental NFTs. It's also kind of a heartwarming story of these two cryptocurrency exchange employees who got married and they had an NFT wedding ring, like their wedding ring was written to the blockchain. I thought that was cute. This is all well and good, but how exactly do you give someone $69 million for a JPEG on the blockchain? While there are many marketplaces for NFTs, including Rarible or Foundation, there is one that is now valued at over $13 billion, OpenSea. OpenSea's catchphrase for it is they want to be the Amazon of NFTs. Russell Brandom is policy editor at The Verge. He walked me through how OpenSea became the de facto NFT marketplace and some of the growing pains that came with such tremendous growth. The difference between OpenSea and the other ones, and I think part of what's made it so successful is a lot of the others kind of have this art gallery model where they have particular NFTs that they like and you go there because you want this particular type. And so it's very curated, it's very controlled. Whereas OpenSea, it's basically this is a representation of what's out there. This is everything on the blockchain. And if it's on OpenSea, you can use these special ordering tools. So everything kind of eventually migrates there. And the fact that something's on there doesn't really mean anything about it. It doesn't have like the OpenSea stamp of approval. It's just the easiest place to buy and sell. This is really the appealing thing about it is, you know, maybe investing in NFTs themselves is kind of like making this speculative bet, but they're the casino. They're the place where all of these bets are happening. And the fact that there are a lot of bets happening right now makes that's just a very good position to be in. Yeah, and of course, the house always wins. Right, right. Yeah. But with OpenSea's growth came some bumps. Since its inception, there have been a lot of issues ranging from security flaws to scams to users allegedly purchasing their own NFTs to artificially inflate their value. It's hard to put the insecurity on OpenSea specifically, but you get a lot of these situations where it's a totally unregulated marketplace. Like there are lots of new things that people are finding out how to do. I don't know if that's a security problem exactly, but it's like a moderation issue in this very chaotic marketplace that because OpenSea is kind of the broker of record, they end up at the center of it. Growing pains aside, investors are betting on OpenSea moving beyond hyped up pictures of bored apes, although Russell isn't too sure. Put it this way. I think for any specific use case, the case for NFTs is pretty weak for me. Like I'm not convinced that it'll take off in this particular area. But then there's this other like, will it take off for something? Will we find some reason or some thing that this stuff is useful for? I'm sort of a little bit more credulous on that, where it's like, OK, all these people are looking for something that this will be good for. And there's a ton of hype and a ton of energy. So hopefully they find something at some point, which I don't know if I want to bet on that, but it's at least plausible to me. But regardless of what NFTs could actually be good for in the future, we might continue to see people splurging on digital goods for months or years to come. Do you think it had anything to do with the pandemic and people just being stuck at home and just not spending their money on normal other things that they normally would have been spending it on? It's very possible. Another kind of angle to it is that they were being pitched and sometimes thrown by some people as an investment. And everyone had a rough 2020. And we're all trying to like get to a better place. And if there's some possible way that we can do that using this NFT, like we buy an NFT and we can flip it in four months for so much money, like what if we could sell a million dollar NFT? That would be life changing for almost everyone. So it's a little bit of it might be a little bit of, wow, this is an interesting thing coming along. That's kind of hard to understand technically. So you can get caught up in the sales pitch of it. And then also kind of the gambling aspect of this thing could soon be worth millions of dollars if you're lucky. And for some people, it has worked out that way, which only throws more fuel on the fire. With you, Russell, I assume the answer is going to be no. But are there any NFTs that you've seen where you've actually said, yeah, this could actually be like kind of fun to own? No, no.
 At this point, you've probably heard about NFTs.
 And if you haven't, you've been living under a rock.
 In the past year alone, they've become a cultural phenomenon.
 And I want to give one to everyone in the audience.
 Some people hate them.
 Others think they're going to be the future of everything.
 But no matter where you fall on this divide, there's a lot to unpack here, including a
 booming $13 billion marketplace that's trying to become the Amazon of NFTs.
 But first, let's get on the same page about what an NFT actually is.
 Essentially, an NFT is a one-of-a-kind digital file, like these here bored apes.
 But it could also be a photo or a song.
 Largely, they are digital files stored somewhere on the internet.
 Mitchell Clark is a newswriter at The Verge, and he wrote The Verge's NFT explainer.
 He helped me, who until a few weeks ago knew little to nothing about NFTs, grasp the subject
 a little bit better.
 Most of what people think of as an NFT are actually the digital files, not what the NFT
 actually is.
 So the NFT is the record on the blockchain that stores the information about that digital
 file, who created it, who linked it to the blockchain, and then who bought it and who
 has owned it throughout its history.
 And that is what the actual NFT is.
 Those transactions are noted on the blockchain, which is essentially a public digital ledger
 that records transactions on the decentralized web.
 The fact that all the changes are made publicly and there are so many computers working on
 validating them all at once makes it really difficult to hack or cheat the system.
 Talk to me a little bit just about like some of the most ridiculous NFTs that you've seen
 during your reporting.
 There's so many.
 I think the first one that I thought, ah, was Logan Paul did trading cards of NFTs.
 You'll find just things that look like they were done in paint by a child, which generally
 people don't buy those.
 Like, let's be clear, just because you put an NFT up for sale doesn't mean that people
 are going to buy it.
 And then there's been the ones that are just downright offensive, like they're capitalizing
 on civil rights icons or artists who are now passed away.
 It's just like, I don't like that very much at all.
 I mean, on the flip side, have there been any that you've seen and you're like, that's
 actually like, if I had $100,000 to spend, I might actually buy that?
 I don't think that there are any of the art ones that I've been particularly interested
 in, but I have kind of enjoyed some of the programmatic ones.
 This includes NFTs that actually get you something a bit more tangible than just an entry on
 a blockchain, such as video games or even access to elite members-only clubs.
 And there are even more sentimental NFTs.
 It's also kind of a heartwarming story of these two cryptocurrency exchange employees
 who got married and they had an NFT wedding ring, like their wedding ring was written
 to the blockchain.
 I thought that was cute.
 This is all well and good, but how exactly do you give someone $69 million for a JPEG
 on the blockchain?
 While there are many marketplaces for NFTs, including Rarible or Foundation, there is
 one that is now valued at over $13 billion, OpenSea.
 OpenSea's catchphrase for it is they want to be the Amazon of NFTs.
 Russell Brandom is policy editor at The Verge.
 He walked me through how OpenSea became the de facto NFT marketplace and some of the growing
 pains that came with such tremendous growth.
 The difference between OpenSea and the other ones, and I think part of what's made it so
 successful is a lot of the others kind of have this art gallery model where they have
 particular NFTs that they like and you go there because you want this particular type.
 And so it's very curated, it's very controlled.
 Whereas OpenSea, it's basically this is a representation of what's out there.
 This is everything on the blockchain.
 And if it's on OpenSea, you can use these special ordering tools.
 So everything kind of eventually migrates there.
 And the fact that something's on there doesn't really mean anything about it.
 It doesn't have like the OpenSea stamp of approval.
 It's just the easiest place to buy and sell.
 This is really the appealing thing about it is, you know, maybe investing in NFTs themselves
 is kind of like making this speculative bet, but they're the casino.
 They're the place where all of these bets are happening.
 And the fact that there are a lot of bets happening right now makes that's just a very
 good position to be in.
 Yeah, and of course, the house always wins.
 Right, right.
 Yeah.
 But with OpenSea's growth came some bumps.
 Since its inception, there have been a lot of issues ranging from security flaws to scams
 to users allegedly purchasing their own NFTs to artificially inflate their value.
 It's hard to put the insecurity on OpenSea specifically, but you get a lot of these situations
 where it's a totally unregulated marketplace.
 Like there are lots of new things that people are finding out how to do.
 I don't know if that's a security problem exactly, but it's like a moderation issue
 in this very chaotic marketplace that because OpenSea is kind of the broker of record, they
 end up at the center of it.
 Growing pains aside, investors are betting on OpenSea moving beyond hyped up pictures
 of bored apes, although Russell isn't too sure.
 Put it this way.
 I think for any specific use case, the case for NFTs is pretty weak for me.
 Like I'm not convinced that it'll take off in this particular area.
 But then there's this other like, will it take off for something?
 Will we find some reason or some thing that this stuff is useful for?
 I'm sort of a little bit more credulous on that, where it's like, OK, all these people
 are looking for something that this will be good for.
 And there's a ton of hype and a ton of energy.
 So hopefully they find something at some point, which I don't know if I want to bet on that,
 but it's at least plausible to me.
 But regardless of what NFTs could actually be good for in the future, we might continue
 to see people splurging on digital goods for months or years to come.
 Do you think it had anything to do with the pandemic and people just being stuck at home
 and just not spending their money on normal other things that they normally would have
 been spending it on?
 It's very possible.
 Another kind of angle to it is that they were being pitched and sometimes thrown by some
 people as an investment.
 And everyone had a rough 2020.
 And we're all trying to like get to a better place.
 And if there's some possible way that we can do that using this NFT, like we buy an NFT
 and we can flip it in four months for so much money, like what if we could sell a million
 dollar NFT?
 That would be life changing for almost everyone.
 So it's a little bit of it might be a little bit of, wow, this is an interesting thing
 coming along.
 That's kind of hard to understand technically.
 So you can get caught up in the sales pitch of it.
 And then also kind of the gambling aspect of this thing could soon be worth millions
 of dollars if you're lucky.
 And for some people, it has worked out that way, which only throws more fuel on the fire.
 With you, Russell, I assume the answer is going to be no.
 But are there any NFTs that you've seen where you've actually said, yeah, this could actually
 be like kind of fun to own?
 No, no.