 So let's talk about your relationship with Apple because you have a relationship with Apple. And in fact, I don't know what your relationship was like with Steve Jobs, and I do want to talk about the post-Apple jobs. But I know that you guys have talked at least one time. I was standing off to the side, I think, maybe when you met him. I don't know if you had met him before this. I think it was maybe the iPhone 4, after the iPhone 4 announcement. Right. Was that the first time you met him? That was. So I was standing like off doing some photographs or something and I saw Jobs come over and be introduced to you. No, no, no. Jobs doesn't come over to you. He was brought, you were brought over. They say, they say, would you like to meet Steve? Right. And then you're like, you were brought to him. There was some, there was some, there was somebody drifted in one direction or the other. Katie Cotton asked me if I'd wanted to meet him and, and I actually said to her, I said, has anybody ever said no to that? And she said, no. Right. And, and I, and I saw you guys rapping a little bit. Did that, did that relationship go beyond that? I mean, did you guys, did you email with each other? Did you ever have any? No. Because he actually, they actually, Jobs actually cited you as a response to, what was this over? Was this Flash or? It was either, it was either the, the dev tools when they kind of banned third-party dev tools. Yeah, something to do with Flash. And you had written a big, I don't know if you guys remember this, but there was a lot of controversy about the app store and the kind of tools you could use or Flash. It was one of these, one of their controversies about things we don't want on the iPhone. Right. And you had written a big piece on daring fireball. Right. And Jobs said, go read daring fireballs posts on this because we think this sums it up. It's in, in, we think John Gruber's take on this is insightful and not negative. Is that what he said? Yeah. How was the traffic on that? It was crazy. I mean, it really was. It's by far and away, the most traffic posts. And all it was is one of those things where some random guy emailed Steve Jobs, some other guy, like a developer, you know, somebody nobody had heard of. Right. Had emailed Steve Jobs and Steve Jobs just wrote back this one line, John Gruber's, we think John Gruber's take is insightful and not negative. And that was it. He responded in an email. And then the guy who did that got the email and did, you know, where some people would get emails from Steve Jobs and then put it on a weblog and say, Steve Jobs sent me email. And everybody goes nuts. It's at the top of tech meme, you know, the next day. Yeah. That happened. Yeah. So it's like second or third hand. It's some random guy's site, you know, which never got big traffic. I mean, you should have just been sending out those emails as Steve Jobs. It was easily like a 25 percent bump. Like, you know, like if you look back at like my month to month stats, it was easily like 25, 30 percent higher than the month before.
 So let's talk about your relationship with Apple because you have a relationship with Apple.
 And in fact, I don't know what your relationship was like with Steve Jobs, and I do want to talk
 about the post-Apple jobs. But I know that you guys have talked at least one time. I was standing
 off to the side, I think, maybe when you met him. I don't know if you had met him before this. I
 think it was maybe the iPhone 4, after the iPhone 4 announcement. Right. Was that the first time you
 met him? That was. So I was standing like off doing some photographs or something and I saw Jobs
 come over and be introduced to you. No, no, no. Jobs doesn't come over to you. He was brought,
 you were brought over. They say, they say, would you like to meet Steve? Right. And then you're
 like, you were brought to him. There was some, there was some, there was somebody drifted in
 one direction or the other. Katie Cotton asked me if I'd wanted to meet him and, and I actually said
 to her, I said, has anybody ever said no to that? And she said, no. Right. And, and I, and I saw you
 guys rapping a little bit. Did that, did that relationship go beyond that? I mean, did you guys,
 did you email with each other? Did you ever have any? No. Because he actually, they actually,
 Jobs actually cited you as a response to, what was this over? Was this Flash or? It was either,
 it was either the, the dev tools when they kind of banned third-party dev tools. Yeah,
 something to do with Flash. And you had written a big, I don't know if you guys remember this,
 but there was a lot of controversy about the app store and the kind of tools you could use
 or Flash. It was one of these, one of their controversies about things we don't want on the
 iPhone. Right. And you had written a big piece on daring fireball. Right. And Jobs said,
 go read daring fireballs posts on this because we think this sums it up. It's in, in, we think
 John Gruber's take on this is insightful and not negative. Is that what he said? Yeah.
 How was the traffic on that? It was crazy. I mean, it really was. It's by far and away,
 the most traffic posts. And all it was is one of those things where some random guy
 emailed Steve Jobs, some other guy, like a developer, you know, somebody nobody had heard
 of. Right. Had emailed Steve Jobs and Steve Jobs just wrote back this one line, John Gruber's,
 we think John Gruber's take is insightful and not negative. And that was it. He responded
 in an email. And then the guy who did that got the email and did, you know, where some people
 would get emails from Steve Jobs and then put it on a weblog and say, Steve Jobs sent me email. And
 everybody goes nuts. It's at the top of tech meme, you know, the next day. Yeah. That happened. Yeah.
 So it's like second or third hand. It's some random guy's site, you know, which never got
 big traffic. I mean, you should have just been sending out those emails as Steve Jobs. It was
 easily like a 25 percent bump. Like, you know, like if you look back at like my month to month
 stats, it was easily like 25, 30 percent higher than the month before.