: Desperate for advise -Water Pump Repair, Bearings, Engine Pulled....
03-07-2012, 02:07 PM
I am desperate for some advise.
My 2008 Sequoia with 96,000 miles was taken to the dealership for a new water pump. I had no water pump failure or loss of coolant I just noticed a spot of coolant when servicing the truck so I took it in right away.
The dealer called at the end of the first day and said keep the loaner car we are having problems with the timing. I called at the end of the second day and he told me they were having a problem with some unresolved issue, maybe a bearing. I said what!!!! He told me don't worry there is no additional cost, keep the loaner car we will get it fixed. Right now the engine is out of the car while we figure out what is going on.
Holy Cow. Can anyone tell me what may have happened? My Sequoia has always been maintained and it has been flawless. To think that the whole thing is being torn down is not very reassuring.
03-07-2012, 09:26 PM
Well that doesn't sound good at all. I would demand the service manager tell me what happened. Sounds like they ran the engine without oil and spun a bearing but that's only a wild guess. I would have no other clue why you would need to pull a motor. Let us know when you find out.
03-08-2012, 05:35 AM
Looked at it last night and the engine and transmission are out, valve covers off, exhaust are laying on the ground. Parts all over the place. They are pulling the bottom off the engine today.
I just don't know what could have gone wrong on a water pump change. They initially said they could not get the timing correct so they kept it one night, then I was told it would not start and may have a bearing issue. That was never mentioned again. Last night they said they had no idea why the engine would not run.
If I had not told them I needed to get my sons baseball stuff from the car I don't know if I would have been told anything. They said they wanted to figure it out before telling me. Something stinks. I not sure how to handle this. I hope someone can give me some direction and an idea what could have gone wrong.
03-08-2012, 05:45 AM
Doing a little more research. I don't even know why they would touch the oil. Maybe it ran without coolant and overheated. Maybe the bolts are different lengths and they put the bolts that hold the pump on incorrectly and they cracked something. It just does not make sense.
03-08-2012, 03:32 PM
Since this is a dealership I would call Toyota Care and see if they can talk to the dealership to resolve this. For them to pull your motor and not give you the details just sounds wrong. Even if the dealer screwed up something on the motor causing the problem, they should tell you what's happening as it happens. My guess would be they did something to cause a mechanical problem in the motor. Changing the water pump if done correctly should not require the motor to be pulled.
03-10-2012, 08:41 PM
Thanks Dan, I did not know about Toyota Care, I will followup.
The latest update, I was told it threw a main bearing??? but they are taking care of everything....
A friend did make one point, the dealership could have made up a story about your engine and got you to pay for everything. How would you have known. There is some truth to that. My friend also noted your vehicle will never be the same, I believe that as well.
03-10-2012, 09:24 PM
Wow that really sucks. Who knows what they did to your car, but your friend is right in some respects. I mean if the car was running okay when you brought it in, I think the dealer would have a very difficult time pinning this type of a repair on you. It's not something that usually goes unnoticed while the engine is turning over. However I would never put anything unreasonable beyond the scope of what a dealer will try to save his ass. Umm "acts of god" Sorry, that isn't covered under warranty. . . .
03-11-2012, 12:20 AM
I think, for resale value, it is true that the vehicle will never be the same. Try and explain to someone why the pre-owned Sequoia that they are about to drop $40k on has had its engine rebuilt. Of course, if you are not selling it anytime soon then I guess that's not going to be an issue.
Do you know if the water pump repair had something to do with the issue that Tundra drivers have had on their 5.7s? Please keep us posted on this and good luck to you!
03-11-2012, 08:30 AM
I think with gas prices heading north, the Toyota brand being tarnished by safety recalls and cheaper materials over the past few years, the resale on our cars is going to suck no matter what. Toyota of today is just not what it was 10 years ago. They still make a great value product in some respects, but they command a premium and the quality just isn't there anymore IMO. The brand SONY comes to mind.
I think the best we can hope is they stop producing these cars so the market for them is quite Limited, only then will these cars retain anything of value as classics that can no longer be bought new.
03-12-2012, 07:24 AM
This is really a FWIW, and probably not much. My wife's BMW X5 engine was rebuilt from the ground up while under warranty. Took the dealer just over two weeks and the mechanic proudly said "you essentially have a brand new engine." After scores of thousands of miles in continues to run terrific, gets decent mileage, quiet, etc. So....maybe yours will do the same. I hope so.
03-12-2012, 11:12 AM
I posted on the Tundra. I can only think of two things, they screwed up the block during the process of removing the water pump or fate is on my side that it failed on their watch and they trying to do the right thing.
I'm not sure if this will be a total rebuild. Why would they not just fix the main bearing a put it back together. Is there something I should be mindful of?
03-14-2012, 12:05 AM
I posted on the Tundra.
So we're clear, you are saying that your problem is with a TUNDRA, and NOT a Sequoia, correct?
This may appear to be insignificant onformaiton to you because they are both 5.7L engines, but I have been doing some research, and possibly, there may be a difference for how this engine was put together.
Officially, the majority of documentation out there points to the 5.7 (3UR) being built in Toyota's TMMAL Plant (Alabama), but it now appears as though there is a split in the production line that goes to either TMMI (Indiana) for the Sequoia, or, TMMTX (Texas) for ALL Tundras built mid-2008 and later.
Again, I do not know at what point this affects the production of the engine mechanicals (if at all), but from reading about issues people are having, it appears as though the problems are arising only with Tundras, and NOT Sequoias.
If your problem is in fact with a Tundra, then this would add credence to this proposition. May I ask, what year is your Tundra, and if it is a 2008 or earlier, could you please share with us your build date? (Month, Year)
03-14-2012, 09:20 AM
It is a 2008 Sequoia with the 5.7. I don't know when it was built but I purchased at the beginning of the new model release in 2008. VIN says production was in Indiana.
03-14-2012, 10:38 AM
So it's an early production 2008 Sequoia.
Hmm, okay, well that does help somewhat in terms of keeping track of it. Thank you!
03-14-2012, 12:57 PM
Great vehicle up to this point. I thought it was a service screw up. I look forward to your input.
03-14-2012, 03:58 PM
it is a service F*up. the tech probably inexperienced and didn't put back the pump correctly/timing off/drove the truck messed the engine up.
03-15-2012, 01:04 PM
Randomwalk101....you got my attention. First they told me they couldn't get the timing right, then they could not figure out why it did not start, now the main bearing is shot.
Could you explain the timing issues related to the water pump a little more so I can understand it better?
03-15-2012, 01:17 PM
well if your timing is off then a lot of things in the engine can go wrong...remember timing belt in small cars? If you're driving it and the belt snaps, your timing is off and pistons/valves will be out of synch and bang into each other. It gets messy real quick...If your Tundra is not put back together correctly (like timing/gear's teeth alighment not correct etc) things can be out of synch and can do some damage.
Remember, not all tech are made 'equal'. You will get some good ones and some idiots..even at the dealership. But again, if they f'ed up, they'll deny it until they die..who wouldn't? :D
03-15-2012, 01:22 PM
Its a 5.7 Liter in the Sequoia so it is a timing chain but I did not realize there were gears connecting the water pump with the timing system.
They have told me they are paying to have it fixed at no cost to me. I don't like it that the whole engine has been compromised and I should get a hell of a warranty but my guess is it will be a fight.
Can you explain how the water pump and timing is connected/related on this engine?
03-15-2012, 08:13 PM
Years ago Jiffy Lube left the radiator cap off of my Camry when I went in for an oil change (shocking). It caused the engine to overheat although I stopped it before any serious damage was done. Had an engine shop switch out the heat tab to a melted one :devil: and approached Jiffy Lube with the demand that the engine be warrantied for the length of time I owned the vehicle which they agreed to. The dealership should do the same, as long as you own the vehicle there should be a Powertrain warranty on it. Bottom line
p.s. if they don't you're vehicle can be a rolling billboard. Toyota of ______ ruined my engine and will not stand behind their work. When you have the time, park it near the dealership, make sure to go in for your complimentary car washes, etc. I'm sure the local media would love a scoop about a dealership that ruined your engine, if it bleeds it leads in the media and Toyota still has a target on its back.
03-16-2012, 05:11 AM
I'm still confused how does the water pump replacement end up screwing up the timing? Is the a connection of the parts or removal during the repair process that can cause a mistake during the repair?
03-16-2012, 11:48 PM
I still think you need to call Toyota care and get a play by play of what is happening. You need to know the extent of what they are doing to your car, then you can decide if their repair is acceptable. If for some reason they did have a mechanical malfunction with your engine, I would be demanding a new engine and not some hack and slash band-aid fix. Having a lifetime warranty is one thing, but 1) Are you really going to use this dealer again for a warranty job? and 2) It's a reliability issue. Who wants to be on a long road trip and have to deal with a broken down car and get a warranty fix. Sounds like your engine has been seriously compromised somehow.
Regarding the engine timing, I don't think they need to mess with this for a water pump change. At least most older motors are like that.More than likely they either ran the engine with no oil, or they got water/coolant in your oil and the engine overheated, thus tearing up the bearing. Bearings are typically blown out as a result of not enough lubrication, or some gritty contaminant in the oil.
03-21-2012, 08:32 PM
Well I may be totally off the mark here but it has been my experience with other vehicles I've owned that it's been recommended to change the water pump when changing the timing belt. Since nearly the same amount of labor is required to get to the pump it made sense to change when doing the belt. That being said, if the same holds true for your water pump then my guess is the tech screwed up when getting things back together and damaged the engine because the timing was off. I'd be looking for a new engine, not a repair.
03-22-2012, 06:45 AM
It does not have a timing belt. The water pump is bolted on the front of the engine and belt drive, to do the timing chain is a whole other process.
The water pump has three different sized bolts, the tech drove one of the longer bolts through a shorter hole and according to them damaged a bearing. The service adviser and manager have not be very forthcoming with information. The manager denied that it was their fault and I had to tell him I already spoke with the tech who told me the truth. His story just changed to you will get a 1 year warranty that is better than the no warranty you had.
04-04-2012, 07:03 AM
For those of you following the post here is were this thing has gone.
All the posts of "demand this" or "don't settle for anything but" does not get you very far unless the dealership really cares. I am also very calm headed and to those who think that getting pissed or angry may be a better route to take may be right because you would have cut to the chase a lot quicker, but probably with a lot less documentation than I obtained.
I spoke with the manufacturer and they said this is a dealer/client issue governed by the State of Florida. We will put a note in the dealers file and with enough complaints or illegal activity investigate further. In other words go get a lawyer we are not doing squat.
The dealer offered a short block and engine warranty and I convinced them to cover the tranny as well. However, they would never send me a copy of the warranty. After emails and a bunch of badgering they sent it. The warranty covers dealer installed parts for 1 year 12,000 miles. It essentially rides on the manufactures warranty on the part and transfers liability. So the warranty on the transmission means nothing and I'm sure the engine would never fail from a covered part. Failure of the engine for any reason except new parts is not covered and they clearly point this out.
So, the only option left is a lawyer. If you every deal with legal issues, you now that this is the option where everybody pays an attorney and gets next to nothing in return.
As an past owner of 6 Toyota vehicles and as the person who will be purchasing a fleet of vehicles for my company. Toyota will not be on the list. Any vehicle offered through the the Ed Morse Automotive Group will be off the list.
I will now involve my attorney out of spite but this has been a big negative and I will be telling the world.