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Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by WhiteQueen, Jul 22, 2010.
Dosen't this seem extremely weak to Moltres?
Maybe you should try using a chansey yourself, in replacement of regice. Then, your sp.def is higher, and the poke isn't weak to fire.
Chansey @ Leftovers
Evs: 252 HP/ 128 DEF/ 128 SP.D
This has a lot of choices to it. So Regice is unaffected by hail, can status, and can attack. This one can heal status/sr, wish, and status. Your team needs wish support due to it being ice, which won't last long defensively. Then if something tries setting up, status it! You can also seismic toss if it's already damaged. Thunder Wave is the preferred choice by me to stop all the speedy sweepers, but toxic is fine too. Aromatheropy can heal all your status effects, which helps, but SR stops the dreaded moltres.
Cloyster could also benefit this team, being extremely weak to entry hazards. He also is unaffected by hail and can spam blizzzard like a pro. He can also explode if needed.
Cloyster @ Leftovers
Evs: 252 HP/ 4 DEF/ 252 SP.A
This pokemon uses everything it can. And it gets a lot, making it do a lot. So you come in on something stupid like Altaria, then immediately start setting up spikes. If you wanna defend instead, rapid spin. Surf is if you want more coverage, but chances are that it won't make much of a difference when there's rapid spin instead. Blizzard is STAB and powerful as ever, so use that whenever your done setting up. Then if Milotic comes to ruin your fun, you can set up or explode. Try exploding though because Milotic is another threat to this team.
On another note, try replacing ice beam on Jynx and Glaceon with HP: Rock, Ground, or Water to cover fires. There is a benefit to each of them, as rock gets ices and fires. Ground covers steels which can be a pain. Water is a measly ground, but if levitate/flying pokemon are annoying, there's always that.
So change whatever you want, just my two cents. Hope I helped!
I remember fighting a hail team very similar to this one (it coulda been you), and sweeping it easily w/ a Scarf Flare Blitz Blaziken. I don't know how to fill the weakness but it easily outspeeds and 1HKOs the entire team.
Hi. You're extremely fucking weak to NP + Sucker Punch Houndoom who can set up on Glaceon, Jinx (locked into Psychic) and it can scare out Rotom. After a boost, Fire Blast KO's everything slow, and everything faster is KOd by Sucker Punch, bar Glaceon which is 2hkod. So I second chansey to help slightly combat it. Just a small nitpick; overall, cool team, and good job on the lb!
Maybe remedy your gaping Houndoom/Blaziken/etc weakness with a Life Orb Milotic. I could see it replacing Regice with enough SDef EV's, and it would greatly lower your odds of being totally swept by Houndoom, or even ScarfMagmortar. Or if you want a dedicated special wall you could go with Slowking.
Also, Jynx is kind of outclassed by Zam unless you use Lovely Kiss, but I guess the STAB Blizzard is worth it in Hail. Maybe consider Lovely Kiss over Ice Beam if you find you don't use it too often.
I'm a big fan of Hail teams and I <3 this team ^^.
I was going to suggest something physical (CB Piloswine is something I sometimes use) but after I tested this team I realised that spamming powerful STAB Blizzard hurts EVERYTHING, so there's not need for a physical sweeper (not counting Dugtrio).
I'm sorry I cannot suggest something that matters, but I just wanted to post that I really like it ;)
@ Tawp64, Chansey and Cloyster don't fit on offensive teams!
Impressive to be honest. However, this is obviously going to lose to an intelligent player. Don't see how you can past a simple defensive cores -- Specially Defensive Milotic runs over this team quite easily. My first suggestion is adding more flexibility to your team, try out Sub/IceBeam/NastyPlot/LovelyKiss on Jynx with the item Leftovers. Try out Blizzard if you like to pack a punch though its ammo is rather depressing, so Ice Beam is usually inferior for non-Sub sets. The reason why flexibility would be good on this team is because you seriously don't want to switch back and forth with Stealth Rock in the match. Your team is running on a ticker bomb per switch and you lack a spinner to keep your offensive guys alive. I think this Jynx will help you smoothen out your team better by having more flexibility. Sleep stuff (usually Registeel), Sub, and keep setting up. If you're lucky you can sleep a Milotic and you can seriously beat it if it sleeps enough turns +4 or +6 will hurt it. Additionally, this will pave away the way for your other Blizzard spammer Glaceon.
Simple tweaking suggestions here: Leech Seed over Ice Beam on Snover. I don't understand the use of dual stabs since I doubt Snover will switch in a lot of times in the game to use all of Blizzard's PP. Leech Seed provides some sweet healing ways to make up for the lack of SR. Simply Leech Seed and switch to stuff that needs health will always be more beneficial than Ice Beam. If Houndoom is bugging you, Occa Berry over NMI is an option to look for on Regice. With that said though, HP Ground can be an option over Ice Beam to hurt Doom for hard damage. Ice Beam is simply not needed with Blizzard there already, so might as well squeeze in some coverage.
As for other options, it would be nice to try out Will-O-Wisp over Charge Beam on Rotom. I really feel like Rotom doesn't need to sweep but can really take the advantage to add more residual damage to the table. Burn + hail leaves many Pokemon at low health for your Blizzard guys to dispose with. additionally this will Wow typical Registeel switch-ins, easen up the switch on Dugtrio, kill Regi and set up Stealth Rock at the same time! I just feel like the utility might be more important on Rotom instead of sweeping. overall gl
Maybe I wasn't really paying attention when battling but Houndoom and Blaziken weren't that much trouble to deal with unless Glaceon, Jynx, and Dugtrio were all fainted. Blizzard from Glaceon does like 40-60% damage to Houndoom if I remember correctly...I'll do some damage calculations when I get home. Houndoom usually carries Life Orb and is weakened by hail, so it dies pretty quickly. So I'm not too sure about the whole "NP Houndoom setting up on Glaceon" part...
Franky: Are players like FlareBlitz, Sir Azelf, Heysup, orcelot007, Brand New Eyes, etc consider intelligent players to you? If so, this team defeated them along with probably all the other UU top players plenty.
Yes, this team has more weaknesses than it cares to have. So it's difficult to explain how it can be so successful. But, you would have to try it to believe it. Again, it won't be as effective since it has lost its novelty, so don't expect much.
I don't really have much to say about this team other than congratulate you. You obviously must know the downsides of BlizzSpam and its overall unreliability; but if it works for you, I guess it's all good. However, one thing really called my attention and it was your complete lack of something that can take a strong Fire-type hit. This might not be all that important when most of these mons are offensive anyways, thus probably falling for 2 Blizzards, but a bulkier mon like Arcanine or rarities like Scarf Blaziken, Scarfed Magmortar and Scarf Moltres will really give you a run for your money, especially the latter. Because of all these things, I recommend you replace one of your pokémons (probably Regice) with Walrein:
Walrein @ Nevermeltice
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 196 HP/252 SpA/60 Spe
- Super Fang
This Walrein takes a different approach from the one you had been using, mainly because of the Thick Fat ability. With this change you would have a pokémon that can actually take a strong fire attack with a move that's sure to OHKO back. I'm a bit unsure about the EVs and moveset, so in the former I just gave it enough speed for Adamant Rhyperior and things that EV themselves to outspeed it (the same 181 speed you gave your Regice); while in the latter I just used Toxic and Super Fang as fillers, as they seem to be your best offensive options. Hidden Power Grass is a possibility I suppose, but Super Fang and Toxic should keep most Water-types, especially Milotic, tame.
With that in mind, I don't think there's much more to change outside of some nitpicks. On Jynx, as many others have said, Ice Beam is somewhat out of place, so I think you should either go with either Lovely Kiss or Energy Ball to hit Milotic harder. On Snover, Ice Shard over Ice Beam could do you some good, as priority is always a good asset. Finally, consider lowering its Speed IVs and giving it a -Speed nature to beat some Hippopotas that forget to do the same.
I guess that's it. Good Luck =)
Sets up on Shadow Ball. And Ice Beam from Jynx. And Psychic from Jynx. And Snover.
Of the 100s of battles that I have been in with this team, I don't think I have ever used Shadowball once; it's merely a filler move. Modest Jynx's attacking power is almost the same as Timid Glaceon's, so Houndoom wouldn't enjoy an IceBeam from Jynx either. Psychic is only used in really desperate situation, like trying to kill off a damaged Milotic or something.
Even little tiny Snover put a hurting on Houndoom with Blizzard:
245 Atk vs 196 Def & 292 HP (120 Base Power): 81 - 96 (27.74% - 32.88%). That isn't bad at all.
Bluewind: It's cool you brought up Thick Fat Walrein. When I had Walrein in the team, I struggled mightily with deciding on what ability to use on him--Ice Body or Thick Fat. I switched back and forth between the two plenty of times and in the end, I chose Ice Body. When Walrein is in good health, he can still take a Fire attack due to his neutrality to it, and the Protect + Ice Body healing back his 12% health was just way too good to pass up on.
And thanks for pointing out Super Fang. I never even knew Walrein had that toy in his arsenal. This team honestly just doesn't feel the same without Walrein, so I'll probably end up removing Rotom/Regice to bring him back from the grave. He was just so much fun to use.
This was the original Walrein:
WALREIN (Walrein) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 114 HP/144 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Toxic/"SUPER FANG" :)
Great job on the peak! I really like this team and I may try it out. I have a few questions, though.
1. Would you ever try a team like this in OU? If so, what would your line-up be?
2. Is there a need for a Rapid Spinner or are Stealth Rocks not much of a problem?
3. Why no Lovely Kiss on Jynx?
27 - 32 is enough for houndoom to switch into rocks, np up, and take out 4 of ur team members before dying to lo + hail. just sayin.
we had a lot of fun with this in #azn, haha. the biggest weakness is choiced fire types and houndoom as others have said, i know this too since i've played around with it for fun. i just came here to congratulate you on making #1.
This is a pretty impressive team, and spamming Blizzard seems a whole lot of fun. However, one thing that seems troubling is the lack of a Fire resist. Something like a Scarf Moltres, however rare, actually 6-0's your team. So, the Thick Fat Walrein suggested by Bluewind is an excellent choice to take on Fire types. I'd suggest using Leftovers over Nevermeltice as Walrein will be depended on to switch in continuously to carry out its walling duties, and the Stealth Rock weakness doesn't help.
I second franky's suggestion to try out Will-O-Wisp over CB on Rotom, as with burn+hail+substitute, nothing is going to last too long. On Snover, have you thought of running a simple Leech Seed + Substitute set? Snover itself doesn't hit very hard, but with Leech Seed it can potentially stall out troublesome Pokemon such as Registeel. A set of Ice Shard or Blizzard/Leech Seed/Substitute/Grass Knot or Protect should work quite well.
Nice team, and gl.
Thanks y'all. You're right, IronBullet93. I think that Snover's for a different kind of hail team though.
I have lost to this team unfortunately. In fact, I think I lost once when I had Milotic AND Chansey, although it was probably due to freeze hax.
Some of you are severely underestimating the special bulk of Regice. It can survive a Fire Blast from Moltres.
@Whitequeen: Ah okay. Thank you for answering my questions. I think I'll run a team like this in UU since it probably isn't viable in OU.
^ No problem. :)
Lol, thanks for recommending me Super Fang on Walrein, Bluewind. That move really destroys Milotic, Chansey, and Registeel in the hail. Awesome.
With no SpD EVs, in fact.
Regardless, Moltres is still a big threat to this team, and Stealth Rock + Shed Shell Chansey absolutely wrecks this team which is what I used to beat it. Also don't forget the fact that NP Sucker Punch Houndoom will 6-0 you, but that's another story. Don't take offense from this, but I think the fact that this team got to #1 shows that the UU ladder kind of sucks...
The only real possible change is the swapping of one of your Blizzard users for a Fire resist. Milotic would probably be the best option, and would help you tank those fire hits. Milotic can also use Blizzard I think, and helps your defensive synergy a lot (not that you have much to begin with lol). Your options are defensive Milotic, which I think doesn't fit the playstyle and overall team, or LO Milotic, which is surprisingly still effective and packs quite a punch with Surf and Blizzard.
Otherwise, the team is prolly as effective as you can get for a gimmick team. Congratulations on number one =].
LMAO. You put Shed Shell on Chansey to beat this team?
Why does everybody say NP houndoom sweeps this team?
It seems nobody here has actually used Glaceon (or looked at its base stats even; towelie's the only one who even noticed that sucker punch doesn't OHKO). It has 130 Base SpA and 110 base defense (as well as a nice base 95 SpD)... even uninvested, glaceon will still take hits quite well and blizzard from it HURTS; houndoom is taking at least half of its health just from that one blizzard, and LO recoil and hail will wear it down quite easily.
Oh and mindgames can be played with Jynx if houndoom is about to sweep... though if his opponent chooses Flamethrower at +2 that's gg
Anyway, I recently ran a hail team and I was running walrein as well. Personally, I used Super Fang/Brine/Sub/Protect. Super Fang and Brine pair quite well in hail, effectively giving you an attack with 130 base power against all pokemon but ghosts. But really that's all I have to suggest.
Also I'm amazed that you made it this far without a spinner; I thought one was practically a necessity with hail teams
I'm running a somewhat similar Walrein at the moment. Super Fang is one awesome move, haha.
Also, Sucker Punch doesn't OHKO Dugtrio either.
The purpose of Shed Shell on Chansey is for any team with Dugtrio; it's not something new, and I don't think he put it on his team just to beat it...
That aside, I don't think using both Ice Beam and Blizzard on most of your Pokemon is a very good idea. You're not going to be spamming Ice attacks versus rain teams for obvious reasons, and sand teams aren't that common, although I can see Ice Beam's application against them. At the very least, remove Ice Beam from Snover - Grass Knot 2HKOes Hippopotas (and most are sashed) and there isn't any other situation you're liable to use it. I recommend replacing it with Leech Seed (for Chansey and predicted Registeel switch-ins) or Toxic, to hit Arcanine on the switch.
As for the other sweepers, there are other things you can try over Ice Beam. Sleep Talk on Glaceon can make for a makeshift sleep absorber, which you seem to lack, although the most common sleeper isn't going to be doing much to your team. Focus Blast on Jynx would help with Registeel / Chansey. And so forth, but Ice Beam is more reasonable on those Pokemon than Snover in my opinion, and if it works for you, then that's good.
My 2 cents, and congratulations on #1.