[speaker001:] hello
[speaker002:] hello
[speaker001:] hi uh my name's Nicole
[speaker002:] hi Nicole I'm Mary Ann
[speaker001:] uh where are you Mary Ann
[speaker002:] uh I'm in McKinney
[speaker001:] oh you're I'm in Dallas not very long distance
[speaker002:] I see okay no not at all and yet long enough if we were calling back and forth it would be a toll call
[speaker001:] it would yes it would okay are you uh do you know about the topic
[speaker002:] uh if if I understood correctly it was what what changes we might uh suggest or whatever for the justice system is that perhaps above my head
[speaker001:] yeah uh justice system or and what we think about the uh judge changing it to so the the judge would do the conviction or no sentencing sentencing
[speaker002:] sentencing and would all the jurors have to agree on okay that'd be a good place to start
[speaker001:] okay all right I'm going to push one
[speaker002:] all right have you ever served on a on a jury trial
[speaker001:] yes one time one time but we found him innocent so uh
[speaker002:] was it was it a criminal
[speaker001:] yes it was this guy bit another guy's finger off
[speaker002:] okay oh oh
[speaker001:] but he deserved it I probably would have bit his finger off too if he was trying to strangle me or beat me up you know if I could have gotten his hand in my mouth I'd have bit him just like this guy did he was scared he was a kid
[speaker002:] oh my
[speaker001:] you know and the guy was trying to beat him up this older teenager was shacking up with this guy's ex-wife or something they were uh uh
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] they were really in a mess and there were children involved and it was just terrible but I didn't think anybody you know they all deserved to go to jail not just the one guy you know
[speaker002:] uh it really does sound like it was a self defense kind of thing
[speaker001:] it really was he was trying to beat him up so you know we found him innocent so I really don't know what happens after you find them guilty I thought that the judge did do the sentencing
[speaker002:] no I served on on both a criminal and a a civil um jury and in my criminal trial he pled guilty um to the first to to kidnapping and so we went through the second part of the trial because in Texas there are two parts first of all to find if they are guilty or innocent he already said he's guilty so then then we go through the trial to determine what uh punishment should be meted out
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] so we still went through three days of of uh testimony and so forth and and witnesses saying oh he's an upstanding young man just weak and was led by another guy and so forth so we were the ones that that came up with the sentence and the judge gave us some parameters and said you know according to the law it can be no more or no less uh no more or less than and he gave the the number of years and he said it would also include a a possible fine up to ten thousand dollars and and we had that's that took us six hours just to agree on what we thought was appropriate for this young man
[speaker001:] good grief that would be hard to do you know
[speaker002:] um it wasn't the easiest thing I've done but no nor was it hard to to us the young man had kind of taken care of it when he said he was guilty so we did not
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] we didn't have to struggle at all with that it was now what's fitting and and we'd gone through you know all that so I I don't know I thought that was easier than than trying to decide his guilt or innocence yeah
[speaker001:] yeah whether he's guilty or not yeah that's true
[speaker002:] I I probably would not mind letting the judge do the sentencing as long as the jury of of peers were determining guilt or innocence for one thing we didn't know that the others involved in the trial had uh or I or I mean had I mean involved in the crime had already come up for trial we couldn't know what had come of their uh sentencing
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and and we couldn't know that until after we'd made our findings so it turned out we had done about what the other juries had done and so it you know we felt a little better but I think if that could be in the hands of of someone who knew the law and could be privy to that information seems like it would be fairer
[speaker001:] is it different in different states do you know
[speaker002:] since it's state uh laws yes
[speaker001:] because I know on some at times the news you know and they say the judge gives the sentencing and so that's what I guess I thought it was that way everywhere being as I hadn't been all the way through you know anything like that
[speaker002:] it now now it may be on some Federal Laws you know it it this was a we were dealing with uh with the state laws not necessarily not necessarily federal that may have something to do with it and it may be too that if it were um a capital crime
[speaker001:] state yeah
[speaker002:] uh capital murder or something like that that it may be different
[speaker001:] yeah well I wouldn't oh that would be hard
[speaker002:] yes it would
[speaker001:] it would be hard to sentence somebody to death if you weren't really really really sure you'd have to be really really really sure that he did it I mean really sure
[speaker002:] well I had a friend who sat in on a or who was on a jury recently for a murder but the man was not being tried for capital murder and so that was not even an option uh the death penalty was not an option so and in in this case everyone on the jury felt that it should have been and they were very convinced the man had no redeeming uh qualities and couldn't be rehabilitated and they were they were really upset that he was getting off so lightly for the heinous crime that he had been involved in
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] I'm real glad that I don't that I don't work in that kind of a uh a background background I'll take my job any day
[speaker001:] yeah think of the pressures
[speaker002:] you know I don't work with perfect people anymore than anybody else does but I can handle the imperfections that I'm around I I could not work in the in the uh criminal area for very long as a as a police officer as uh someone who works for the court system or whatever
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so anyway back to the original question I really think I if if we were still allowed to choose guilt or innocence
[speaker001:] well
[speaker002:] I'd be more than happy to let the judge determine the uh the sentencing
[speaker001:] the sentencing yeah I agree I agree with you right I do agree with you I I figure that it's been a couple of years now since I've served now so I'm I've been looking lately for mine it's about time for me to get called up down there again
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] so I enjoy doing it
[speaker002:] I do too
[speaker001:] as long as I get paid well now before I worked for TI and I didn't get days uh time off for jury duty you know it was difficult
[speaker002:] oh I bet
[speaker001:] because there are a lot of places that don't give you time I mean they give you the time but not the pay
[speaker002:] I see okay
[speaker001:] so you know you lose a day's pay and you well you make about eight dollars or whatever it is you know
[speaker002:] big deal oh you make eight dollars now in Dallas County huh it's only seven fifty here in Collin
[speaker001:] I think it's eight it might I I don't remember
[speaker002:] it probably is which is about what it costs you to park your car right
[speaker001:] well they send you a free bus ticket and I use it
[speaker002:] oh do they oh okay
[speaker001:] so you know I come out pretty good on it I mean I get and plus my TI money I come out real good on it now the last one I served on I was working at TI and so I got time off for it but I was working third shift and that made it a little difficult
[speaker002:] yeah oh
[speaker001:] to decide
[speaker002:] yeah I I can see how that would be difficult
[speaker001:] yeah to decide which day to take off and you know do you take off the day
[speaker002:] before you go oh that would be tough
[speaker001:] after you go or before you go so it was tough so but anyway well I don't have much more to say about it
[speaker002:] um what about the other suggestion that they had that uh about the jury all the jury agreeing on the sentencing do you feel that that is a requirement
[speaker001:] I think if anybody has a doubt you need to yeah I do feel that yes I really do
[speaker002:] that there there should be agreement agreement
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I think I do too
[speaker001:] because someone might see something that you don't see I mean you know they may have they may have picked up on something that gave them that doubt that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know yeah I really think everybody needs to agree
[speaker002:] it's it's it's so easy anyway for everybody to just kind of become a yes man and get carried up along with the emotions and so if there's somebody who's strong enough to stand up with a specific doubt I would a whole lot rather go through the expense of another trial because of a hung jury than that a justice not be meted out correctly
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I agree with boy it's really easy to discuss something when you both agree
[speaker001:] yeah well you know that I mean I uh you have to agree on this almost I would think I can't imagine not agreeing that everybody should agree on a jury I I I don't know on ours when we we all really agreed on this did you all have any disagreements when you were doing the sentencing
[speaker002:] well it took us six hours to reach agreement yeah
[speaker001:] I can't remember how many it didn't take us but an hour I think or an hour and a half we were all pretty I think we had one man in there that uh wanted to find him guilty because he kept saying he did it then we kept saying he did it but the other guy you know yeah we had to convince him that um you know that yes he did it but he wasn't guilty he didn't need to go to jail for doing it that was you know he did it he admitted it that he bit that guys finger but he did it in self defense so you know we just didn't feel that he needed
[speaker002:] yeah apparently you all were successful in uh convincing him at last
[speaker001:] yes finally we did it didn't take