[speaker001:] the taxes tend to uh keep going up but uh I don't know if it helps me any to look at some of the other countries and say well there's always someone that's that's worse off in what they end up paying but uh go ahead
[speaker002:] I think I think we're always convinced that we're paying too much in taxes without getting back necessarily everything we'd like to but so far I don't think I've paid enough taxes to be too too awfully concerned about it yet
[speaker001:] yeah I'm still still I'm able to survive and and uh working for a company that reaps some benefits from the tax money it's almost like you're paying your own salary I don't work directly for the government but uh getting government contracts and being in the defense industry as it were even realize a little slim these days it's still uh
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] still a feeling of you know it's not totally wasted dollars if you think about it some of it coming back your way
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh that helps the rationale any but it's still angering to see the abuses uh even though they're uh a relatively small percentage they still they sound humongous when they're you know you hear millions and sometimes billions of dollars spent and and even some of the arguments over the national endowment for the arts and what's happening in that area it's still a pretty small chunk considering what actually flows through that government so but those are the things that get us going or get us stirred up sometimes people
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] desire that that money not be spent well
[speaker002:] do you all pay state income tax
[speaker001:] no no Texas doesn't have a state income tax yet that's
[speaker002:] neither do we and and and I agree with the yet part they've just started talking about introducing a state income tax and right now we pay an extremely high state uh sales tax almost eight percent
[speaker001:] well by the time the city gets involved I'm not sure how many how many people have their hand in it but we pay eight and a quarter cent
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] so it's it's pretty pretty much but I think it's divvied up pretty much too uh the county gets some the city gets some and the state gets some
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and it's it's quite a bit I think six something is the state and and uh the rest of the pie goes elsewhere but we're in a particular part of the state that's pretty well off so it's it's like we get a lot of that back as far as local taxation goes
[speaker002:] well that's good
[speaker001:] yeah we have a real good you know police department and real good uh city services and boy the parks are all over the place and there's a lot of lot of money spent on us but uh the poor rural folks uh barely can get ambulance service and everything else so it's it's a real mixed blessing I guess to
[speaker002:] that's I think that's the biggest problem I have with the tax system is there there is such a disparity between between really the haves and the have nots and I I think the things that they use as a basis for distributing back the tax dollars needs to be looked at again
[speaker001:] yeah it'd be nice if you could find someone oh uninfluenced by groups and and honest enough to find a way that would go over and then you'd have to find a way to make it work
[speaker002:] I know that would be a a definite B V R M I R
[speaker001:] yeah yeah the uh bureaucracy seems to spend more money just trying to administer some of these programs than the programs are worth uh it seems uh an awful waste of time to have so many people having to fill out so much paper just to get rid of so few dollars in some of these cases
[speaker002:] I think a lot a lot of times it seems like the classic can't see the forest for the trees I I wonder if if they realize
[speaker001:] so it make
[speaker002:] the the magnitude of some of the red tape you have to go through
[speaker001:] yeah and so much of that red tape was was initially and is added on to try and stop a given abuse you know you discover a particular problem and say well we ought to run this extra check and we'll have to file these extra papers to say well you you deserve this welfare or whatever and they just keep trying to to close all the loopholes and stop the abuse and all they're doing is making it worse and having to add more staff and and uh decreasing the efficiency of those who are actually trying to stop the abuse
[speaker002:] and I don't I don't think they're getting their money's worth and I I I definitely don't think that the added steps are are getting the benefit that they would like them to I think it's just causing most everyone else more problems because if somebody wants to get around the tax laws they will find a way
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] if they want to badly enough they'll either find it themselves or they'll find someone to do it for them
[speaker001:] right it does seem to be the case I don't know whether it's worth and the economy has gone pretty well for a hundred years or so with the government doing what they do with taxes steering investments and steering virtually every dollar you make or spend it gets uh steered one way or the other based on tax breaks you get and you know housing had tax breaks for a while and then they slacked off on that for a while and then just uh generally wanting to be in control of of where everything's going for the most part give you the best break if you go their direction I don't know what what would happen if we uh got rid of some of those controls and just went to what some people would say would be simpler of just having uh you spend this much uh therefore you should be taxed this much that would only encourage saving it's not a you know a tax your income because now you're talking about having to report it and all that kind of stuff
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but if you put the burden on the retailer who really doesn't care if you you know buy your groceries and the like he doesn't care who bought the groceries you're going to pay the tax on it so most people tend to spend what they make anyway in in our income income brackets
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so you know those fifty thousand dollars or the thirty thousand dollars would pretty much spend the majority of it and what they didn't save they wouldn't or what they could could save they wouldn't get taxed on
[speaker002:] and that makes sense but like you said I mean it it seems simple and I think in a way it's so simple that people would be afraid to try it
[speaker001:] yeah but you wouldn't be able to steer people toward a particular type of savings you wouldn't be able to say well you get better tax bonds if you you know avoid the capital gains tax and if you do it this way do this and you roll over your IRA's and all that they
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you wouldn't be able to steer people toward retirement and all that but boy if you save that much money and it didn't have the taxation problem well you might might do all right I don't know it seems
[speaker002:] yeah even if you didn't invest in necessarily the the best thing you would have so much more to invest you you'd still be ahead
[speaker001:] yeah that's for sure
[speaker002:] and that's something that's something I need to to learn a lot more about is is under the current structure what is the best thing to be investing in for the future because that's a that's a scary thought you always hear that Social Security won't be around by the time we're sixty three or sixty five and and need it and that's a scary thought
[speaker001:] right that's true plus what what there will be of it even if it's there isn't quite enough anyway so
[speaker002:] no
[speaker001:] you're looking at having to do it on your own for the most part and then hope what you did didn't go away yeah the uh the taxes are are kind of messed up I guess with the abuses and the things we've written into it but uh looking looking at some of the other countries and some of the other options you have in the world there it's not all that pleasant anywhere
[speaker002:] we still look pretty good don't we
[speaker001:] yeah pretty much well I hear one of my kiddos doing something they shouldn't be so I'll uh let you go and maybe
[speaker002:] okay it's been nice talking to you
[speaker001:] maybe maybe we'll catch each other again
[speaker002:] okay have a good evening
[speaker001:] I'll try bye
[speaker002:] thanks bye-bye