[speaker001:] Hello.
[speaker002:] Hello [LAUGHTER]. I was, I was thinking about our topic for the night [LAUGHTER]. Um, immigration problems. We have immigration problems and what do, do you think about it? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well, I think it's a very, very complicated,
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] and I sort of, I see perspectives on all sides. Um, and I've re-, have no hope for solutions. But, uh, I do keep myself somewhat abreast of the issue. I have worked with, uh, uh, a little bit with refugees from,
[speaker002:] [Child laughing].
[speaker001:] Southeast Asia, uh, who've come over. Uh, you know, to escape the genocide programs that are over there. And seen, you know, heard about some of the problems that they've had. And I'm also fairly sensitive to the issues about how open should the borders be. Because I, in general, like a smaller rather than a larger population,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] to the land area.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh,
[speaker002:] Where are you?
[speaker001:] I'm in California,
[speaker002:] See,
[speaker001:] which has a lot of immigration. Probably more than any where else in the country, though I'm not sure if that's the case.
[speaker002:] Well, we've got a lot too. I'm in Texas.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah.
[speaker002:] In Garland, right outside of Dallas.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, we're getting a large [sigh], oh, gosh, I don't know, I think there's like twenty-six different languages now, that are spoken in I, the I S D. Dallas Innercity School District.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Cambodians, uh, Asians, Vietnamese. We, we're getting a lot of, uh, Mexican Americans, you know, we've had,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] those for a long time.
[speaker001:] Sure, well, Texas,
[speaker002:] [Child].
[speaker001:] used to be part of Mexico, or most of it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yes, oh, yes. [Speaking to child in background] No, I'm busy right now, Steven. Steven wants me to do popcorn right now.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] [Child talking] [Speaks to child] Okay. And I don't know what the solution is.
[speaker001:] I, I don't either. It's a really delicate, uh, moral, issue. Because, i-, if you have, well, I guess the one thing I do see that is, is that needs to be a solution is, that if you do let people into the country, I do feel you have a certain obligation to,
[speaker002:] To get them on their,
[speaker001:] to get them on their feet.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Because otherwise what you're doing is you're letting people in and you're, you're dooming them to being underclass people.
[speaker002:] Right,
[speaker001:] You know, you're dooming them to ghetto life or whatever. And I know that, that the Southeast Asians, the Hmong people that I've done some work with, uh, feel very quite hurt and, and unsure of themselves when here. Because they're coming from, you know, from the slash and burn intercultural society, you know, they're coming from the middle ages, basically. And they're being plunked down, plunked down into America. Many of them had been promised by the C I A, during the war over there, that because they co-operated with the C I A, and they helped the C I A out, that when they came here, the C I A would help establish them in America, and the C I A, of course, isn't doing that.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] And, uh, [throat clearing] so they come here and they don't know wh-, what the heck they're doing. And they're finding themselves adrift in the big cities. And, of course, there are people in the big cities who would do, like nothing better than to take advantage of them.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And they're, they're incredible victims of crime. And part of it is this lack of,
[speaker002:] [Child crying].
[speaker001:] lack of basic information, being dissimilated. And I'm not saying it's easy to do, and I know there are a few people who are trying, but, but the funding isn't there for very much work to be going on.
[speaker002:] And there's a lot of graft, like people trying to tell them, oh, giving them information that was free to them anyway if they just knew how to get it.
[speaker001:] Uh, yeah, exactly. Y-, ha-,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, these are people who don't have the foggiest idea about what America's like.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Um, and it's, ver- it's, I, I couldn't really conceptualize how hard it was to understand that until I, until I met with them. And I realized that, they, some of the information that I just, you know, don't even realize and know is information, they don't have. And I never thought, well, I guess that is something you need to know, you know. People getting into trouble because they come here, and so they start farming on, uh, available land, you know. Like the median strips on freeways because no one's using it. But then someone comes along and says you can't do that, you know. Why can't they? They have no idea why not, some, some of them, you know. The ones that have been here longer and have been in, you know, understand now. But when they initially come over,
[speaker002:] You mean, really trying to plant something? That's what you're saying?
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] Farming?
[speaker001:] 'cause they're farmers. These,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] are all farmers coming over, and they're being put in the middle of the city [breathing].
[speaker002:] [breathing] Oh that's terrible.
[speaker001:] I mean they're nomadic farmers, you know, they're people who farm on the hillside and then leave the hillside to another hillside and farm on that hillside.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] These are people who've never seen flat ground before and people who've never seen property rights before. You know, these people who've never seen any machines other than those used in war. And, uh, they have, you know. So I, I, I do have a lot of sympathy for them, and I feel that America could try a little bit harder to, to help people adjusting to the American way. Because if they don't, you're just going to produce, you know, you're going to produce an underclass, you know. You're going to get a situation that I think a lot like what happened to the blacks, being sort of led out of slavery and then, then many of them ended up just working the same jobs they were as slaves then. And there was no,
[speaker002:] And not being cared for.
[speaker001:] real up, upward movement. And, not being, you know,
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's true.
[speaker001:] Um,
[speaker002:] Well, what did you do when you helped these people?
[speaker001:] Well,
[speaker002:] How did you, what did you do, tru-,
[speaker001:] I, I wasn't helping them. I worked with them, not to help them, but [LAUGHTER] for my own purposes. I'm, I'm a linguist and I was, uh, doing a language, trying to learn their language, a little bit. And I actually, um, I mean, helped them them in the sense that they received money for working with me. But I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't a social worker or anything like that.
[speaker002:] All right.
[speaker001:] I do have friends who have tried to do more,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [child laughing].
[speaker001:] social work,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, by explaining to people how the language,
[speaker002:] [Child].
[speaker001:] and what the problems learning English might be and such.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Because all the models of teaching English are based on teaching English to Spanish speakers or to other European language speakers. And people don't realize how different some of the languages they speak are.
[speaker002:] Well, I'm an E S L teacher.
[speaker001:] Oh, you are?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, well you,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I got my certification. But actually they did not teach us very many things about how really to go about helping people to learn another language [child].
[speaker001:] That's, that's been my impression.
[speaker002:] I mean, it's like people don't know, what they say,
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's, it's not, they're not withholding information,
[speaker002:] it's not step for step.
[speaker001:] they just don't have that information.
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] They, they haven't the foggiest idea.
[speaker002:] But anyway, I enjoy it. They, they, the kids I've worked with so far have been Spanish speaking.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] And [cough].
[speaker001:] And Spanish is,
[speaker002:] but I'm applying for,
[speaker001:] pretty close to English, really.
[speaker002:] What? Yeah, it is.
[speaker001:] And Spanish is a lot like English.
[speaker002:] A lot of our words are the same,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] like, you know,
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] they just change the pronunciation a little bit.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, I love it. I love the culture, uh, the way that they, uh, they respect education and their teachers
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] their parents, so much more than, than my children do.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [Talking] You know, and I like it. And what I've been thinking about doing is volunteering for this, uh, Asian center that, a Doctor Falk has started, that works with the school district.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And doing what, trying to get them set up, in-, inculturated,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] into the system.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I thought that would be good experience for me.
[speaker001:] Oh, I'm sure it would.
[speaker002:] And, I've applied at another district where many of the children are Asian.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I think that would be wonderful too.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it would be a good experience, and you'd be helping people, I'm sure. Very much. And n-, and I mean, not to put, not to trivialize the problems of any immigrant group but I do know the Asian groups are having a lot of trouble. I mean, and part of the problem is that, a lot of Chinese and Japanese immigration from, you know, decades ago has been very successful because they valued education and so forth.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] They became a very successful immigrant group. But, and, but a lot of people coming over from Vietnam, right now, coming from worn torn countries, are, are na-, not having the same success. I think some people have just assumed, well, why, why can't you be successful? The Japanese were, or the Chinese were, or something. And it's really much more complicated.
[speaker002:] Well, the times were different too.
[speaker001:] Yeah, the times are different, yeah.
[speaker002:] My neighbor, let's see, is Jewish. And he's going through the, I don't know, the Jewish League or something.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And helping a family that's come over from Russia.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And he spends, well, right now, he's down to like once a week, but he was going over there several times a week to be with the family,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and help them with the language. And he thoroughly enjoyed it.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah. I, I think it's a wonderful thing to do. And there's a lot, there's a lot more, I guess another possible solution is, since taxpayers aren't going to start paying more money for this and, and other budgets aren't going to be cut to pay for it, uh,
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] more of the volunteer network service. Because everyone gains from it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Would be, would, might be really useful. Uh, and if it's, [throat clearing] you know, uh, just people helping people I think makes, [LAUGHTER] makes the community so much happier.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. What's so sad about this is both of the, the man and the woman had a degree having to do with computers but,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] their training isn't what we need in this country.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] And because they're so deficient in English, they haven't been able to get jobs.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So they'll have to go back and get a degree here. You know, almost start all over.
[speaker001:] Yes, yes, I've known people with effectively worthless degrees in this country. I mean, and they're highly educated people, but of course, if you're educated and you don't speak English, no one thinks anything of you.
[speaker002:] No, no. And this woman was, uh, stocking the shelves in a drugstore.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [Sigh] I feel sorry for her.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I do too. Well, It's been good talking with you.
[speaker002:] Well, thank you.
[speaker001:] Uh, okay.
[speaker002:] Have a good night.
[speaker001:] Okay, it does sound like you have some children to take care of [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Okay. Yes, I do [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Uh, Okay, bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Okay, Bye.