[speaker001:] um well you know I I think it it really depends you know I think you know if if you know taking the current batch we've got you know I think Paul Tsongas probably isn't in it for like his own gain I I don't see him as that kind of a guy I can believe like that Bill Clinton might be um I certainly think a lot of people in Congress are
[speaker002:] well it's for me it's hard to talk about uh specifics because I don't know the people all I've read is uh the headlines the uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] the generic question which is what they're talking about I think it's
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] all government any government is based on the honesty of the of the individual right
[speaker001:] yeah well you know I think I think if you like compare us to other governments you know I I think we tend to be overly critical of our own government I mean you go and look like a lot of these African countries where corruption is right right out in the open it's like you know you want to do something you know you better even be the president's best friend or you know pay me a lot of money
[speaker002:] yeah well that's that's part of it the tradition certainly modifies it if you have uh tradition of of um like
[speaker001:] baksheesh or whatever they call it
[speaker002:] yeah or might makes right or money and which is might
[speaker001:] right or bucks make right
[speaker002:] so uh in certainly you're not going to have the same kind of honesty on the other hand uh I I I think it seems to me that all the big scandals are based on either individual honesty uh going corrupt or frankly uh uh elective honesty going bad on us
[speaker001:] well you know I I think you know to some extent you know people get the government they deserve is a cliche
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but it it's really true I mean if you know you hear these guy I think that this is the first election I've heard about where a lot of the incumbents are really finding saying okay we're getting out because it's too much heat I mean normally it's yeah okay what big scandal but it comes times to reelect them they say hey this is the guy that brings home the bacon for us you know he's got seniority on all these committees we're not gonna replace him
[speaker002:] yes and that's again the what you said earlier about people get what they deserve they say well if if if a dishonest person is uh good for us we'll keep him in office
[speaker001:] yeah and I mean also you know you look I think a lot of it has to do with reform with with with the issue of campaign reform when it costs you I mean ten million twenty million dollars sometimes I've heard horrendous figures to run for a Senate seat you know job pays a hundred thousand a year you know it it it the you work it out unless someone is incredibly altruistic you know there's no reason for them to want to run for that
[speaker002:] I I think that uh part of it again is this this uh  well organizations can go bad and our particular organization has is one of the best in the world but it's still relative to itself is uh is in serious need of reform um I've I've been overseas and and there's a lot of as you pointed out there's a lot of corruption corruption in other countries and so when you come back to the States you say well as bad as this is I'm still awfully glad to be here uh so I guess the you know this this question was can we ever get uh totally uh honest government and I would say uh
[speaker001:] right it's an imperfect system because people are imperfect
[speaker002:] yeah only to the extent that I'm honest can I can I uh uh act as an honest person
[speaker001:] I I mean the problem is that  you know you've got as I said there's no incentive incentive to go into I mean look at our state legislature and things where very nominal pay but there's also not you know what's the campaign the campaign is four guys go against each other and you know there's no advertising those people I can believe are doing it because they want to change the process but when you're talking about having to spend tens of millions of dollars to get elected and then being in the pockets of all these people who gave you the money and then having to regard how to repay you know how to uh kind of do for yourself I think I I really think that it's not so much that corrupt people go into it as that the process corrupts
[speaker002:] I I I would agree with you there well the other side of the coin too is that that the whole that the process even from the beginning uh you scratch my back I'll scratch yours uh I would even I would disagree with you a little bit because I think in the state level that's just part of the uh the internship so to speak and there's a lot of corruption
[speaker001:] I I think it depends a lot on on the state I think that it varies from state to state
[speaker002:] oh yes but but what I meant was why do people go why do people run for the school board because that's step one on the ladder
[speaker001:] oh oh man I don't want to talk about the school board we've just we've just been having school board meetings and it was like people suing each over over things they said