[speaker001:] Okay, well, what's your opinion about capital punishment?
[speaker002:] Well, Cathy, I think that, uh, capital punishment certainly has a place in our society, um, maybe from the sense that there are some things that we just can't afford to have repeated, even in the remote chance of repetition.
[speaker001:] Right, I think I would agree with you on that, too. I, I can't see any point in keeping someone who's obviously beyond any kind of rehabilitation, uh, keeping them, you know, paying for them to live in prison for years and years and years when you could probably just eliminate the problem. Maybe spend the money on someone who could possibly be helped.
[speaker002:] That might be true, um, I'm, what I don't know, is where do we draw the line.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Uh, do we say that every one who commits murder in the first degree is liable for capital punishment if that's what the jury decides is an appropriate punishment for their crime, or do we extend it beyond that?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, beyond murder or just beyond like first degree murder?
[speaker002:] Well, either, you know. Uh, I have a, a nine year old daughter, and there are some crimes that could be committed against her that are not even considered capital crimes, that, that I would consider basis for murder.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, well that really gets into a sticky issue. Uh, I could see that too. I think there's probably things I could think of short of murder that someone, I think someone would probably deserve to be killed for. But, gosh, and who's going to decide which is how bad, you know, something that to you is really bad might not be quite so bad to me, and, uh, it's gets into a pretty sticky issue.
[speaker002:] Yes, it does. A lot of that has to do with the cultures that we grew up in and what's termed acceptable and, um, to what's allowable and where are we.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Uh, you know, if we were, lived in a different country, then murder is not so bad.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But over here, where we're promised the civil liberties of purs-, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, then taking that away is a, a heinous act.
[speaker001:] Yeah, in some eyes. I think some people give up that [LAUGHTER]. I think some of what we consider rights are really more privileges than, than what most people think of them as. I don't know what, um, Texas's criteria for capital murder is, do, capital punishment is, do you know? Are there some set guidelines, like only under these circumstances?
[speaker002:] I don't know. I believe it's, uh, at the discretion of the judge or jury.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. I used to live in Virginia, and I know when they first reinstated capital punishment it was only, um, if someone killed a police officer or someone committed rape and then murder. Those were the only two circumstances where you could give someone the death penalty, which I think is a little too limited.
[speaker002:] I tend to agree with you there. Um, my belief is that, is that, um, any crime that's freely committed, you know freedom of choice
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] these people had a choice of committing this crime, that involves the taking of another's life or the altering of someone's life
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] such as rape, deserves punishment by death. But then I'm also told that I'm a pretty harsh person.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, in general terms I'm not so harsh, but then whenever I hear of a specific case, you know, where someone did something, then it's like, yeah, put it to them [LAUGHTER]. So, I think I probably tend to be a little bit harsh, too, as far as that goes. Because, yeah, I think you're right, that person voluntarily gives up when they decide to commit that crime, they voluntarily give up their right to continue on with their happy life, just beca-, you know, they ruin someone else's life.
[speaker002:] All right, I can see a difference between a person who goes out to rob a store for food
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] than a person who commits a crime to, either for the thrill of committing the crime or the thrill, the feeling of power that they get from it, or to acquire drugs for some other, I mean acquire funds for some other illegal activity.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, that second group of people falls into the group that I say give up their rights, the, the first guy, you know I just assumed it was a guy, the first person,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] that went out to rob a store for food, that to me is, is a different set of circumstances, where he, he deserves help instead of, uh, loss of life.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] Yeah, he didn't go out with the intent of hurting someone else.
[speaker002:] That's right or with the,
[speaker001:] Or with no regard for someone else's well being. What about, uh, like teenagers that get involved in a gang and do a drive by shooting or something like that. Say fifteen, sixteen year old. Would you consider, uh, capital punishment for them?
[speaker002:] I think I would probably lower the age to about fourteen.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] There's some, and I, I certainly don't know myself, but somebody needs to do a study that says at what age true and complete logical thought to include the, the consideration of, of long term consequences
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] begins.
[speaker001:] Yeah, what age they're accountable,
[speaker002:] You know,
[speaker001:] for their actions.
[speaker002:] I have an eighteen year old, and, uh, well he's nineteen now, and I don't think that I saw it in him until maybe last year,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And I have an eleven year old and a nine year old, and I don't, don't see it in them yet, but I'm, I'm not sure where it begins.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I know that they are lowering the age of, uh, whatever is considered a minor. I think the kids, certain kids have been tried as adults who were a lot younger than they used to be, like, I think I read about a boy that was nine or ten, that got mad at some playmates and went in and got a gun and just opened fire on them, and they were trying to charge him as a,