[speaker001:] Women?
[speaker002:] Yeah, the changing roles of women, how roles changed and what do you see coming in the future.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, that's not a broad enough topic [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Okay, yeah. Sounds good.
[speaker001:] I'm ready when you are.
[speaker002:] Okay, hold on.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] [Clicking] Are you there?
[speaker001:] Yeah, I'm here.
[speaker002:] Oh my goodness, I can't believe I did that. Okay, hold on.
[speaker001:] That's okay.
[speaker002:] [Beep] Okay, um, I.
[speaker001:] Okay, um, I don't know, are you in your thirties, or,
[speaker002:] No, I, I'm twenty-three.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well then I can tell you that roles have changed. I'm thirty-eight [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they changed quite a bit.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Um, I, this was my twentieth high school reunion, in Chicago.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And basically, um, the choices, I mean, you know, you probably heard that in the fifties women liked to stay home and all that.
[speaker002:] Right, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] That's kind of, um, the opposite of what it was in the sixties and early seventies.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] It was sort of just to um, go protest,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, just, everybody be damned and live with some one, and, you know,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, I know that, th-,
[speaker001:] soci-, social morals were a little bit lacking.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, I know that, uh, in, in the early seventies, uh, I think women were the first people to, to make a move as far as individuals.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, uh, before that a lot of people that wanted to protest were large groups like, uh, black people, or, you know, just large, large groups of people, but, but the,
[speaker001:] Right it was more, it was more civil rights oriented,
[speaker002:] Right,
[speaker001:] or race oriented rather than gender based, yeah.
[speaker002:] and I think, I think the women's movement kind of brought in individual lives where you had women's movements and you had gay movements,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and just the smaller groups of people.
[speaker001:] It did.
[speaker002:] And I think since then is, is when a lot of the women's roles have started to change.
[speaker001:] It did and some of the other stuff that, um, I think that changed it, you, uh, when I first got out of college fifteen years ago, they were always saying well, if you, if you were assertive you were a libber, or you were aggressive not assertive and independent.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And in terms of the corporate community, I've seen a big change in terms of men finally being quote, unquote, used to women,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] who are in, uh, controlling positions,
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] as higher, you know, corporate, in the corporate hierarchy.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [breathing].
[speaker001:] So I think that's good.
[speaker002:] I think that, uh, you know, you can just look at home life and see, I've been talking to a lot of people a-, about education and things,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, and what, what, what affects the school system and I think that a big thing that effects it is that the mother is not home anymore,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] um, like she used to be. She used to be kind of a, kind of a, a rock, you know,
[speaker001:] The mainstay, yeah.
[speaker002:] in the house, yeah. And, uh, since, since everyone is going out and working now, whether it be because of finances or just the economy,
[speaker001:] and restructuring, stepfamilies, yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, the mother's not there anymore and the children are, I think, I think a lot of society is suffering. Not to say that women shouldn't, you know, go out and do what they want to do but I think that, um,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] society's really going to have to get used to it. And they're not quite used to it yet and that's I,
[speaker001:] The schools or the mo-, the schools or the parents, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yes, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Um, I'm trying to think of what else. I have a lot of opinions on this except all of a sudden I went blank [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] A lot of the things, um, the demographics do, I mean, there are more, I don't have the numbers in my head right now, but, a lot of the things that brought feminism, I mean there are just more women in, in, in the demographics, just generally,
[speaker002:] Right, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in the United States, in terms of being,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I mean, I'm the typical baby boomer, I hate that term,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] but in terms of women,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] women going out, I mean twenty-three, I remember that.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] What's it like to be twenty-three as a woman today, I mean, when I was twenty-three the issues were either go to graduate school or get married,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] um, those were the general issues.
[speaker002:] Speaking of getting married, I was talking to someone yesterday on this, on the project,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, uh, we were talking about child care and he asked me if I had any kids. He was about forty or fifty years old and I said no, I'm just twenty,
[speaker001:] He was ancient, yeah.
[speaker002:] and I said no, I'm just twenty-three,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, because I don't think of myself as needing to have children but h-, the first thing he says is, well don't you miss that part of your life. And I just, I, my, my mind just went,
[speaker001:] You didn't know what you're going to be missing.
[speaker002:] I went, what.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] You know, because it d-, it really didn't, doesn't even occur to me right now to have children, becau-,
[speaker001:] I don't have any either and I've been a married for eleven years, so.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and I, it just, you know, I think that I'll probably have children when I'm about thirty, thirty-five, something like,
[speaker001:] Yeah, when it's time, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] just because, I'm not sure if it's just, if it's just me, or, or women in general that are twenty-three right now, because, um, I'm really into my career. I'm trying to go somewhere, and,
[speaker001:] Yeah, you want to establish,
[speaker002:] and get there quick and then worry about, you know, because right now, in my career I'm, I'm really starting out, and it's going to take me a while to move up.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh,
[speaker002:] And I don't need anything kind of holding me back, um.
[speaker001:] Right and, and you'll find that that's the other big thing that has changed in terms of,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] um, women don't feel like they need to get married anymore.
[speaker002:] Right, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I was twenty-seven when I got married and I just at the time, um, my husband actually even jokes about it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] He was twenty-three when we met an I was at a point where it was like, I didn't date, e-, I mean, I just, I went out to have a good time,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] but I didn't have to have male companionship.
[speaker002:] Right, right.
[speaker001:] Um, and a lot of the, um, friends that I had in school at that point, who had gone back and gone to law school, or M B A programs,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] um, which I also had done, had just, you know, they were very sad. But then by the time I got married, um,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it seemed like they were on their second or third around the marriage track.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah,
[speaker001:] So, I guess that's a big change in terms of, just, um, the attachments that women feel like they need to have, the dependency,
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah,
[speaker001:] their self-identity is stronger.
[speaker002:] it's, it's just really not there anymore.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And that, that has to do with, you know, the women getting out and other women seeing, uh, women seeing other women, you know,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] out in the corporate world.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] That's like, oh, I can do that. You know, maybe,
[speaker001:] Right, and I, I, I mean, I don't know how,
[speaker002:] I don't need to get married.
[speaker001:] how old your mom is, she's probably, let's see my mother's in her early sixties, so.
[speaker002:] She's, she's about forty.
[speaker001:] Okay, [LAUGHTER] I'm thirty-eight, your mother's for-, [LAUGHTER] I just turned thirty-eight.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Um, [LAUGHTER] yes I'm laughing, oh my God. It does start to creep up.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] No, um, but it's okay, don't ever let age, I mean, I don't thi-,
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] nobody talks about it for women except other women and other men.
[speaker002:] I, I just turned twenty-three, uh,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] April twentieth, and I'm still going, you know, oh my God, I'm s-, getting so old. I just, because me, myself, I just like to move really, really quickly.
[speaker001:] Yeah, an,
[speaker002:] I like to, anything I do, I got out of school quick. I'm, you know,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I'm working quick. I want to move up quick. I want to make money quick. I want to retire quick.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And so anything, i-, i-, when the age creeps up, where I'm twenty-three and twenty-four,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I'm thinking my time is running out. You know, but I'm actually very, very young.
[speaker001:] Yeah, you are, because what I was going to say is, what you will find is, my background is in journalism and corporate communications,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and what you'll find is, I mean, I'm just now finally to a point where, I mean I don't know why I didn't, didn't do it sooner,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but this is probably typical of the women's movement too,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] is the idea that you're going to be forty tomorrow anyway, if you want to go back to school. I'm seriously considering going back to school for law.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] Um, which is a complete, I wouldn't say career change, it's, it's a subway,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but it's still is a different application. And I mean, if you think about it, you know, I c-, I still can have another career. I mean I've worked for over fifteen years in what I've done.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] And I mean, so when you're saying quick, um, I think that's probably one thing that your generation coming up after mine,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] is thinking that, um, they have to do everyth-, you know, sort of,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] I call kind of, I call it a chewing syndrome. They have to eat real fast they have,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, exactly.
[speaker001:] they have to, rapidity of speech, they have to just go through everything.
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] And you'll find that probably by the time your twenty-eight, thirty, if you haven't slowed down,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] something will slow you down. Do you know what I'm saying?
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah,
[speaker001:] Um, because it's just, you find out that you're really not, um, smelling the roses, and I know that sounds trite,
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] and all that.
[speaker002:] I think, I think a lot of, uh, people probably feeling that way, I know, I'm probably feeling that way because it's, [breathing] everything's geared towards young.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know and whether I want to realize it or not, everything on television is young,
[speaker001:] Oh it is.
[speaker002:] young, young, young. You can't be a model after thirty, you can't do this after twenty, you know and,
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] e-, y-, everybody that's in the music business is starting out at fifteen.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, and so I feel like I'm old. It's like I sing,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I sing and I would really love to become,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, a professional singer, but I think I'm too old now,
[speaker001:] Oh, you're not, no.
[speaker002:] and I'm twenty-three,
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] because everyone I've seen coming up, they're fifteen.
[speaker001:] That's true I mean, it's, it's,
[speaker002:] You know, and so I'm going, I'm so old and I'm, I, I really have to always tell myself, no, you're not, you're very young.
[speaker001:] No, you're extremely, yeah, it's, it's ju-,
[speaker002:] And, you know, so it's,
[speaker001:] Well it's like us, we're getting ready to do, if possible, for an adoption and I have friends that say well why would you do that,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] if you know you haven't been able to children, which we do know,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] why would you do that now, at this part, point, and, um, it's just individual choices.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I stopped comparing myself a long time ago to somebody who had, um, in my family my brother's children,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I mean, he just turned forty, his children will be out of high school before he's forty-five.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] Um, I mean that's like your mother, look how young she is,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah.
[speaker001:] compared to where you are out of school and everything.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] It's just, it, but what you find is you don't compare the woman, because you just get into trouble. It's all independent and choices.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah, very true.
[speaker001:] Um, but what I was going to say about mothers is, uh, your mother probably just won't say it, but, I mean, my mother and her sisters are always saying, uh, to my cousins and I, my female cousins,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you girls are so lucky because quote, unquote, you have all these choices, you know, you went to school,
[speaker002:] Right, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you can do this, you can do that,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] we couldn't do that then. And my cousins and I go, well why couldn't you [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's, that's why I say I feel, I feel really lucky right now, b-, because I'm not married and because I don't have children. I'm out of school, I'm twenty-three, I can do anything I want to do, anything.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And so, I mean even some days I'm looking for another job now, but, and I get so depressed because, not because I can't find a job, but because I can't figure out what I want to do.
[speaker001:] And that's normal, I mean,
[speaker002:] And yeah,
[speaker001:] I think that's the world today.
[speaker002:] and I thi-, and I'm lucky though, because not a lot of people can sit there and go gee, I don't know what to do. I have so mu-,
[speaker001:] Right that's exa-,
[speaker002:] you know, not a lot of people,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but it's depressing too.
[speaker001:] That's how, I mean,
[speaker002:] What do you, what do you that you're,
[speaker001:] What, I'm right now.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I'm, I'm a free-lance writer right now.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And then, um, what I'm doing is working at, um, a electroni-, an electronics company,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] for their company newspaper,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] right now on the side, and then I'm also, actually, I'm excited, tomorrow I have a, uh, luncheon appointment with a perspective client to do,
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] uh, marketing communications for them.
[speaker002:] Huh, okay, I'm a, I'm a news reporter, now,
[speaker001:] Oh you are?
[speaker002:] and what I'm looking for is something in, I really don't want to stay in news, but I would like to stay in journalism,
[speaker001:] We-,
[speaker002:] and I've been looking for something exactly like that jus-,
[speaker001:] Here's what you shoul-, d-, this is off the topic, and those people probably won-, [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, okay [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Did you go to Baylor by any chance?
[speaker002:] No, I don-, I went to U T at Austin.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, that's even better.
[speaker002:] And I, I just happen to work at a Waco station, because you know.
[speaker001:] I went to, or you in radio, or television or news.
[speaker002:] Broa-, broadcast news, T V,
[speaker001:] Uh, my journalism degree is in,