[speaker001:] Hi, this is Judy, I'm from Maryland [NOISE] and I'm in California visiting right now.
[speaker002:] Hi, Judy. This is Norma, and I live in Virginia [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] We got a great topic [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I know. I'm sitting here going oh, dear [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Should we give it a try?
[speaker002:] I guess we might as well [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Okay [LAUGHTER]. Okay.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Well, um, so [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Let you start [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So, so what changes have you seen? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] What changes, uh,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I guess the biggest, I don't know your age Judy, but, uh, in my lifetime the biggest is in more women working,
[speaker001:] Well, actually,
[speaker002:] definitely.
[speaker001:] that's what I was thinking too.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, um, you know, just to jump ahead a little bit but then we can back up. Is it, perhaps, woman in politics is for the future.
[speaker002:] For the fut-, well, yeah.
[speaker001:] Because I don't see that really yet in positions of power, really.
[speaker002:] Right. I don't see them in positions of power in corporation either [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] not many.
[speaker001:] That's true. That's true. Um, do you work in private corporation or government?
[speaker002:] I did work in government.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And before that I worked in a bank for eight years.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And now I'm retired.
[speaker001:] Oh, you,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's the best status.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Yes, um, I don't, I see, um, and,
[speaker002:] Which do you work in, excuse me?
[speaker001:] A government.
[speaker002:] A government.
[speaker001:] And I work in academia before.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, um, actually there's one, um, woman in our, I don't know what you'd call it, uh, institute who is a manager and, I mean, in a since, perhaps, um, a lot of, she gets protected a lot because it's almost like a token.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And, and it's sort of unfortunate because, I think that they don't accept her technically and, but she's a good paper pusher.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And it's in a technical position really. And you know she should be more technical for what she does.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I think that's sort of unfortunate,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] because it doesn't, it doesn't really help the cause in the long run [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, um, you know, I don't know. And, and teaching I still see that that's where most of the woman are.
[speaker002:] In teaching.
[speaker001:] In teaching. And, you know, and it's always been that way.
[speaker002:] But not at the college level.
[speaker001:] Right. Not, well,
[speaker002:] We live in a college town and I worked at the university for a while.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And there are, there are woman there but they're not the high paid
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Not department,
[speaker002:] professors that,
[speaker001:] chairmen.
[speaker002:] the men are [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah. Not the deans and things like that.
[speaker002:] Well, they did have one woman dean but, and I guess she, she probably did very well but that's the minority.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Um, and do you think it's because women aren't qualified or, or just don't, or don't want the job or just aren't hired for the jobs.
[speaker002:] None of the above [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I think they are extremely well qualified.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I don't know how,
[speaker001:] They're just not selected somehow.
[speaker002:] I think they're not selected,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, of course, at this university, uh, this, it's a big engineering school and I don't think there are many women in the engineering college.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And that's where the high pay is.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay. But I'm wondering how many women actually major in engineering. Act-, but, you know, I say that but yet I know too.
[speaker002:] Quite an, well, I think there are more than there used to be.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I'm sure there are, yeah.
[speaker002:] But they may not go into teaching,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, I mean, the two that I know obviously are not in teaching but,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] um, it's, it-, I suppose in a since I was surprised when they told me they majored in engineering. I don't know why. I, but I don't know that many men that have majored in engineering,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] either. I mean it's just, because I'm in the humanities it's just,
[speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] You know, it's not,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] it's not something that I tend to hear about.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, um, yeah, it's a,
[speaker002:] Well, I met one one day that, uh, had just joined the faculty in agricultural engineering and that really surprised me.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's interesting,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I suppose that, that it's difficult to really say why because, uh, you know, there, there probably are a limited number of women who are interested in the subject and well qualified.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And maybe there aren't, you know, [LAUGHTER]. Maybe they don't apply for the job.
[speaker002:] I don't know. I don't, I don't know how many go on and get a P H D in engineering.
[speaker001:] Right. Right. Which could be, you know, part-, partially cultural anyway.
[speaker002:] That could be. That's true.
[speaker001:] So that it might be circularly being the same problem of, of expecting not to get hired for the good jobs anyway,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so why spend your time getting qualified.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] It's a, it's a rough [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] It's a rough, a rough situation. Um, and I guess what I, what, ama-, amazes me is the number of men who are willing to stay home with the kids or and, in our case we actually have one father who works part-time, a six,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] hour day so that he can take the kids, kids or kid, I'm not sure,
[speaker002:] That's interesting,
[speaker001:] to school in the morning and be home when the children or child,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] comes home in the afternoon.
[speaker002:] Is it, uh, was she the major wage earner,
[speaker001:] This is, uh,
[speaker002:] I mean, did she earn more money that he did or
[speaker001:] Well, see,
[speaker002:] you know.
[speaker001:] I don't know anything about the family but, but, yeah, I would imagine she might. Um, because he's, you know, he's a really nice guy but he did say that because he was in the humanities and he's now working in more of a technical situation that he had trouble finding a job.
[speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So that maybe he, you know, maybe she was more qualified. But, but still it's interesting that, you know, he,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] he's been doing this evidently for a, a good number of years.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And, uh, but it's unusual.
[speaker002:] Uh, I know one, uh, gal that's, she's a C P A, and her husband is a house husband.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah I,
[speaker002:] And then they had a child and he, he was still the house husband. He wasn't,
[speaker001:] Oh, he was,
[speaker002:] going to,
[speaker001:] even before they had children.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Even before that, right.
[speaker001:] Oh, now that, that really is [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] She was a little perturbed about it.
[speaker001:] Oh, she was.
[speaker002:] At one time.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I don't know how, she's moved away. I don't know how it is now but I know, uh, we're, we all went out one evening and [lipsmack] after work and, uh, she was, there was an underlying note she was perturbed about it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, I mean I think that would be, it would, it would strike one as strange if there's no reason for
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] somebody to stay home that,
[speaker002:] I don't think there was a valid reason [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. That's true.
[speaker002:] Because her statement was, I told him let's face it you're a house husband that's what your going, that's what you'll always be.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, but yet, you know we have to think about that because if, if she had offered to stay home we wouldn't have thought anything stran-,
[speaker002:] She wouldn't have be, that's right. Uh-huh, that's right.
[speaker001:] So, so we're,
[speaker002:] it would, it wouldn't have been a doubter.
[speaker001:] carrying our own prejudice [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh. That's true.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. Oh, gee.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I guess we can't win [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Huh-uh. Oh.
[speaker001:] Because if, yeah, if, if somebody does if and breaks tradition you're surprised. But if [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, dear. So, so,
[speaker002:] I think maybe more men would like to be if they [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] If they could get away with it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] weren't put down so badly [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, dear. You know, well, uh, I mean it, it's an interesting topic yet I must say it's not one that I've given a great deal of,
[speaker002:] Huh-uh.
[speaker001:] of thought to but, uh,
[speaker002:] No, I didn't.
[speaker001:] in the past. It's, um, one of those things that, you know, seems to happen.
[speaker002:] How do you feel your career has gone?
[speaker001:] I don't, I don't feel for the most part that I've been discriminated against.
[speaker002:] You don't. That's good.
[speaker001:] No. I was a department chairman. I, but I don't like administration.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] So then I'm, uh, uh, probably a poor example, although, you know, I was an administrator and could still be I suppose.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I was discriminated against very definitely in banking.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] It was terrible.
[speaker001:] Oh, really. You were, you were more ambitious than they would let you be?
[speaker002:] Right. And the money didn't go with the positions.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would,
[speaker002:] The promotion, promotions came but there wer-, there comparable pay for the responsibility.
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] And I was told you don't need as much pay as I have because your children are older than my children, or your husband has a good job and [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, jeez.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, actually in a since I suppose, when I was hired into the government, um, at, I was taken advantage of and, and that's true that, you know, sometimes other people get, get higher increments,
[speaker002:] I thi-, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] for, you know, even,
[speaker002:] I think we, uh, are programmed to just take it [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] as it comes.
[speaker001:] Right. That's probably true. I hadn't, I hadn't thought about it because I do like what I do and,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, I just sort of ignore the administrative,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] part of it since I didn't like it when, when I had to do it.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So I, I figure, you know, nobody must, uh, nobody must like it. It must be a rotten job for everybody [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But I know some people thrive on it [LAUGHTER]. Oh, gee. Well, since I don't have a whole lot more to say on the topic.
[speaker002:] I don't,