[speaker001:] Uh, [throat clearing] a lot of companies now are, are using, uh, drug testing paraphernalia and drug testing situations to, to root out the, the either, uh, [sigh] elementary or intermediate or advanced, uh, drug users.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, I know the, the government is, uh, you know, gives drug tests an-, to all new entrants, all new appli-, applicants coming into government.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, and I quite frankly, don't see anything wrong with it. I, I'm, I guess I'm not a good civil libertarian.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And, and I, I feel as though, uh, that, uh, uh, you know, that if you, you're a drug user you have a hidden agenda that's difficult unless you really go into a deep background. Of course, we're, we're, being involved in my organization, uh, we, we have deep background checks and
[speaker002:] Sure, sure.
[speaker001:] and so, uh, but, but, sometimes, you know, drug use can, can escape that. And, uh, I have absolutely
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] no compunction about, uh, using any and all means to, to, uh, uh, you know, work out, figure out who has a drug program or who has a drug problem
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, and putting that guy into, into therapy to, whatever it is to, to, you know, break this, uh, activity. Of course, if he's fallen in love with drugs and there isn't anything but getting stoned or high is, is the only thing in life that seems to be meaningful, then maybe there is no hope [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] What's your, uh, feeling?
[speaker002:] Uh, well I guess I, I guess I'm probably a little more to, toward the other direction.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Uh, well I guess, mainly because, uh, it's, I, well, like there's two sides to it I guess. Uh, one is that, uh, if you're coming to work under the influence of any sort of drug, alcohol, whatever, or, you know, even if it's smoking, inhibits, you know, your ability to function, then I, I think that, that, you know, I don't have any problem at all with testing that individual, you know, on the spot. Uh, but I guess I feel more like whatever you're doing in your own private life is your own private business. Uh, and I guess part of the reason there is because of the fact that, uh, things like drug laws seem to come and go. You know, we had prohibition for awhile and then we didn't have prohibition. Uh, you know, we've had, I guess, laws against, uh, you know, various other forms of drugs for the last what sixty or seventy years, I guess.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Maybe a little longer.
[speaker001:] Well I think, uh, the dr-, the laws on, uh, uh, uh, the first morphine laws were, were like ninety, or nineteen ten or nineteen five, something like that.
[speaker002:] Yeah. So, ei-, eighty years or so. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, so I, you know, it's, it's hard to, I guess, for me to justify what so-, seems like, you know, basically a breach of the First Amen-, you know, freedom from, uh, search and seizure, you know, uh, on something that may or may not stand as a law, you know, fifty years from now or even twenty or ten, who knows.
[speaker001:] Well, the thing of it is the, the, tha-, tha-,
[speaker002:] I mean, prohibition certainly didn't last.
[speaker001:] that, that is, uh, uh, in, in many respects, uh, uh, you know, just, just, I think, an over simplification. I, I think there, th-, th-, th-, there's so much criminal activity, uh, that people go into to, to support drug habits.
[speaker002:] Well, but you got to look at prohibition though. You had the same problems there, right?
[speaker001:] Yeah. You know, they, they support drug habits with, uh, with, uh, you know, with things like, uh, you know, burglary or, or prostitution or stuff like that, yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Sure. Well it goes back to that, again, if you look at prohibition. I mean because it's illegal, it costs more. If it was legal, I mean, face it you can buy pharmaceutical grade cocaine for what, ten or twenty dollars an ounce.
[speaker001:] I, I I [static] must admit that,
[speaker002:] And clearly if you're into coke and all you want to do is, you know, snort your brains out all day long, if it was legal, you could do it real cheap and, you know, you'd be a menace to nobody but yourself as long as you stayed at home and did it.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, yeah, get, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah. I, I must admit that the production costs of, of these drugs are, are zippo compared to the street market costs and, and the costs to society, yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, well that's why there's, you know, people dealing it because there's money in it, you know. There's ridiculous amounts of money.
[speaker001:] But I, I, I, I think that, that the, that, you know, the, being in law enforcement, you know, th-, th-, th-, they, I, I probably have a kind of a draconian, Philistine attitude toward it.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And, but, but the, uh, uh, I, I really feel as though the interdiction effort is, is, as soon as you, you get rid of one goon that's, that's, that's involved in drugs and tha-,
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, interdiction's hopeless. I mean
[speaker001:] Yeah, and then another, another one will jump up.
[speaker002:] there's no way you're ever going to win that.
[speaker001:] But we, we see,
[speaker002:] The tighter you squeeze, the more the price goes up, the more incentive there is. I mean that's a losing fight.
[speaker001:] Yeah. A-, a-, as soon as we wind up, uh, uh, you know, for, well if we can just destroy the market by destroying the demand but, but people
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] want to, get, get stoned and I, I don't see that,
[speaker002:] Well, yeah. It goes back to, you know, what right, what can society impose on people. I mean, can you force somebody to be a good productive citizen?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I don't think you can. I mean, you know, I'm, you know, was raised with being a very strong Bible work ethic so, you know, I'm one of these, you know, ten, twelve, fifteen, twenty hour a day type people.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So, you know, yeah, I can really relate to yeah, everybody ought to do their own share, you know. I don't have any, you know, love lost for people who are on the public dole just because they're too lazy to get a job or that kind of stuff.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, you know,