[speaker001:] So, uh, you know, my feeling is that, uh, it's really being used today, it, it, you know, it, it really isn't doing any real good purpose for anything because it's not cost effective because of the amount of time the people end up waiting on appeal.
[speaker002:] Right, I think I've seen some statistics that say that, uh, it's more expensive to kill somebody than to keep them in prison for life.
[speaker001:] Right because y-, you, you've got all, all the prison expenses, plus all the legal expenses.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, and, you know, it certainly doesn't seem to be a deterrent. Uh, for one thing because it's used so infrequently and for another thing because I honestly don't think the people that are committing the c-, crimes that would be eligible, you know, really care.
[speaker002:] Well, that's, committing them mostly is, you know, either crimes of passion or at the moment or they think they're not going to get caught or,
[speaker001:] Right, I mean, it's kind of like the AIDS phenomenon, you know, I'm invulnerable, I don't need to care about this. You know, I, I, I'm
[speaker002:] Yeah, b-,
[speaker001:] never going to get caught.
[speaker002:] Yeah, but you also have to think whether it's worthwhile on the individual basis, for example, someone like, uh, Jeffrey Dahlmer, do you want, by putting him in prison for life, there is still a possibility that he will get out again.
[speaker001:] Yeah, one, one
[speaker002:] Whereas
[speaker001:] way or another.
[speaker002:] if you kill him, there is not that possibility.
[speaker001:] Yeah, but, but the other side to that is, if you put him in prison for life, there's a chance that he might do things in prison, or, you know, and somehow redeem himself.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I don't think he could ever redeem himself, but
[speaker001:] Well,
[speaker002:] in some cases, yes.
[speaker001:] You know, so that, you know, the, the question is, you know, the other qu-, problem with capital punishment you run into is, what are you going to do about people who are later [LAUGHTER] to have been found innocent, you know? There are cases where, you know, twenty, thirty years after the fact of getting evidence, especially as new technology comes along that might prove their innocence, then, oops, I'm sorry, guess we killed the wrong guy.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, once you've made a decision that way, it's a little difficult to go back on it.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Right, you, you can apologize nicely, but, you know, you know, I think, you know, the, the price, you know, it, I've heard quotes, you know, it's better that a thousand people go free, than one person be unjustly imprisoned. I think i-, is really the, the philosophy of the way our legal system works.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, yeah, it's a-, the benefit of the doubt to the last iota is, uh, based on the, uh, person who is accused.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and, you know, the, I, I think that, you know, and the way it's being used now, it's like you listen to Bush is, you know, well, where are we going to impose d-, you know, it's like for drug dealers is the new big thing like in, Tsongas is also saying, you know, capital, make it a capital crime to be a major drug dealer.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And, again, I don't thing these people care. *typo replace thing with think They risk their lives every day.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and, there, there, they seem that the profit marg-, uh, drug dealers, the profit margin's so high that, yeah
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] the, the risk is almost not there.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and, and, you know, uh, especially, now, I live in, in Massachusetts, you know, w-, w-, we're going to get capital punishment here probably after the second coming or something.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, you know, but you look at our, our crime rates and things like that and you compare them to, to like Texas or someplace that does, you know, it, it, it's impossible to make a case that it's, it's affecting it in any way.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I think it's mainly, people, like, they get the vengeance of it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well
[speaker001:] Because, you know,
[speaker002:] it's also, I used to live in Georgia and, you know, the, the big thing down there was, all right, we have capital punishment, but if you look at who gets accused and who are the ones who actually get executed, it's very racially related
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah
[speaker002:] and ethnically related,
[speaker001:] it's mainl-, lot of blacks. Also a lot of young people. You know, a, a, a sixty-two year old guy is less likely to be put on death row from what I've seen.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And, you know, I, I think when you listen to like the, uh, the, the victims' families and things, they're always talking about, you know, uh, feeling justified or feeling, you know, like they've gotten something out of it, I mean, my thought has been, once the guy has been imprisoned, if he goes to jail forever or whatever, if he gets killed, it shouldn't make any difference to the, uh, the victim's family. The only thing that should really, I mean, obviously, if someone of mine who has close died, I'd probably feel differently, but
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you know, th-, you know, what, the important thing is that they be caught and not be a danger to society.
[speaker002:] Right and that, and, you know, also by keeping them in prison, you do have the possibility, though, we don't currently do this, of making restitution.
[speaker001:] Right, I mean, the,
[speaker002:] You, you will work your prison job and any money you earn will go to the victim's family.
[speaker001:] Right and, the, the other thing is that, you know, I was reading through a book on, uh, geneo, human geneo research
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and there, more and more things like schizophrenia and why, does it just turn out to be genetic or biochemical in origin.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] So if someday we can go to Jeff Dahlmer and say, well, the problem is you, you've got an endorphin imbalance and, you know, if you take this regularly, you'll be a sane and productive member of society
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, you really get back to the question of, you know, is someone responsible for their actions.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, I, I think on some of it, you have to say someone's responsible for his actions. I never like the, uh,
[speaker001:] Society made me do it.
[speaker002:] the defense,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Well, I never liked the, uh, insanity defense.