[speaker001:] So, what do you think of our trial system? [NOISE].
[speaker002:] Huh, I don't really know what to think about it, but I do know that they're not, you know, they'll give somebody twenty-five years and they'll serve what, eight months.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Have you noticed that?
[speaker001:] Yeah, I have noticed that, that, that kind of stuff does seem to happen quite a bit, um, yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, and, uh.
[speaker001:] I don't, I don't, I don't even know what to do about that sort of thing.
[speaker002:] But I think trial by jury is, it's a lot better than leaving it up to one person.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think trial by jury is very good. I actually, they said, I think the tape said something about changing, uh, changing it such that the,
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] or leaving sentencing up to the judge only. I think that's actually good idea.
[speaker002:] Leaving it up to the judge?
[speaker001:] We-, just, just sentencing, not the trial itself.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] Um, because I think that th-, that, that judges are probably more informed as to what is,
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] how serious the nature of the crime is,
[speaker002:] well right because,
[speaker001:] and stuff like that an,
[speaker002:] the general public doesn't know that if, i-, if they're sentenced to life that they won't serve life.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Course the judge will know when he'll be up for parole and all that. So yeah,
[speaker001:] Right, so he'll be able to give them the maximum sentence, in some cases there.
[speaker002:] Okay, I must not have understood the whole thing because I didn't hear them say that, but yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah, the, the, they give that as, as an example of something that,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that might happen ye-,
[speaker002:] But I think if the entire trial was left to one person [child crying] [LAUGHTER] I've got a four year old, you can hear.
[speaker001:] Oh yes.
[speaker002:] But, uh, I don't know, you, pe-, too many people can take vendettas out on people,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and everything.
[speaker001:] Or just, you know, there are two people who say well he just looks guilty, um.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Right, but that's true.
[speaker001:] That's actually, that's a wonderful way to get off jury duty, you know. Someone says to you, you know, when they ask you if you, uh, if you want to be on, you know, when you're called for duty say oh yeah, I want to be on jury duty because I can spot a guilty person a mile a way.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] They quickly let you off jury duty I hear, um.
[speaker002:] Right because they, they know that you're biased.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, that, that, that, that, that's, that's the way it works there, um. Anyway, I think that probably for, for having it, what about, you know, about being unanimous. I mean, that's sort of a strange case because I wonder what happens when eleven people thinks someone's guilty and one person doesn't, one person thinks that, that they're not guilty and they can't decide for hours, unless they convince that one person, you know.
[speaker002:] Does it have to be unanimous?
[speaker001:] I believe it does have to be unanimous, actually.
[speaker002:] Well then they consider it a hung jury, I g-, I think and then they, uh, have a retrial, or do they.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think they either have a retrial eventually or, or they call it a mistrial or something.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I haven't been to law school.
[speaker002:] No, me neither.
[speaker001:] So, I don't know much about that,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] I just know that, um. I wonder 'cause sometimes I think about it actually, I think well, what if I were that one person and I was completely convinced that, that, that, that this person wasn't guilty, you know.
[speaker002:] Well you don't have to be really convinced that he's guilty, it's just if they can't prove he's guilty because [clicking],
[speaker001:] Right, uh, but, I mean what if eleven other people are saying one thing, you know, and you're,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you're the one person saying the other thing. You know, would you give in.
[speaker002:] [Child crying] [child talking] I would hate to be that person because you would be, uh, you know, bombarded by all the other eleven jurors
[speaker001:] Yeah saying.
[speaker002:] to, you know, just say he's guilty so we can get out of here and go home. *should this be in the above slash unit? The slash unit should end here.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I wonder about those things, you know, or even if it's, you know, I, I guess if they were to say, well it doesn't have to be unanimous, what's the cut off number, seven, five, you know, six, six,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, how do you decide. Is it, you know, how do you decide what number of people have to say that.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I know, it's too bad one of us don't have some knowledge on this, huh.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] But, but, um, [throat clearing] I don't know, I just hope if I ever go to court that they all, unanimous on not guilty [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well you've seen like these T V movies,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [Talking to child in room] Kyle, I'm talking, hush. [Resumes talking to Speaker B] But, uh, well how they'll, you know, the, through the whole movie, you think this person's, I don't know, but one thing that I thought was pretty weird is how somebody can't be trialed, tried, tri-, uh, excuse me, twice for the same crime.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I've never quite understood that. Um.
[speaker002:] Well I just think it's, it's weird because I've saw, well, of course, soap operas, I'm an soap opera fanatic.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] This one guy had, uh, framed himself to make it, we-, which he really did kill the person, but then he set it up where it looked like somebody was trying to frame him and he was on trial for it, and then, you know, it came out that he was being framed, so then he was found not guilty, and then, th-, directly after the trial they found out he really was guilty and he couldn't be tried again.
[speaker001:] Right, and they can't do anything about it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, beca-,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I often wonder about that, I wonder if, if maybe, you know, I, I, I don't, I don't, I don't know the law on that but if they have new evidence, can they, can they retry, or can they, you know, bring you back.
[speaker002:] No, I don't think they can. You know, I saw it on L A LAW, too.
[speaker001:] Oh, actually, that's true, I've seen the same thing on L A LAW as well.
[speaker002:] Yeah, about that woman.
[speaker001:] Yeah. W-, so I wond-, and then I wonder why that, you know, there, there must be some sort of deep seeded reason for that, yo-, you know, something like, something like, well you can't be tried for the same trial because that would bias the, the, the, the jury or something, or, you know.
[speaker002:] Right, and I'm sure that, you know, it's the lawyers,
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, after the, uh, defendant, defending, oh, the defendant's lawyer and the prosecuting attorney. I'm sure the prosecuting attorney could make a real good case if he, you know, knew all the details of the defendant's, you know, case.
[speaker001:] In, in, of the defense.
[speaker002:] Right [clicking].
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, well there's also the issue of, for instance, you can't, um, you can't, very often you can't, um, when someone is, is on trial for something, you can't bring up prior convictions.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Which,
[speaker002:] like if they're on tr-, uh, trial for rape, you can't have any, you can't bring up the sexual assaults and stuff, or whatever.
[speaker001:] Right, that's completely beyond me, I mean that's jus-,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I know, if it's related,
[speaker001:] I wonder,
[speaker002:] if it's related to the crime, they should be able to.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean if this man is, is accused of raping someone, then I think that something like sex, you know,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] the fact that he se-, sexually assaulted someone is a crucial bit of evidence,
[speaker002:] Right, yeah.
[speaker001:] that adds to the fact, and I, I, I,
[speaker002:] But they're not allowed to do that.
[speaker001:] I, I often, I never understand, you know, havin-, again, having, I'm sure there are some deep seated reasons, you know, to, I mean, often times I wonder about rules like this and I'm sure that, that, that there are some reasons for good.
[speaker002:] Well that one does seem, that one does seem out of it, though, because it's, it, we-, you're allowed to show their character, do you know what I mean.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And if it shows that their character's, you know, [voice changes, gets louder] capable of lesser thoughts like that and stuff.
[speaker001:] Then right, then, then,
[speaker002:] Right, th-, that lea-, led to that.
[speaker001:] Then they should be yeah, I mean that's what I think, but I don't, um, but I don't quite understand.
[speaker002:] Tell you what we need to do is go into law and then we'll be able to, or vote. Do you vote? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Do I vote?
[speaker002:] Yeah, do you vote?
[speaker001:] Oh yeah, I vote, yes.
[speaker002:] Okay, we-, you'll help out a little bit [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Putting the right people in the office, that's a lot to do with it too.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] A lot, uh, a lot of the politics will pass laws and stuff that the, um, general public wants, so they'll be revoted and all that.
[speaker001:] Well that's, that's, that, that's very true, but then again oft-, often times they don't, as well.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Often times they don't, uh,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] they just go, you know, they're you've got people like who are, who are, you know, lame, lame ducks and they sort of don't care about anything and just want to go ahead an,
[speaker002:] Right they, sit on the fence, so. Well, oh, I talked about this the other day, they won't say yes and they won't say no to just certain issues just because they don't know what the public wants, or the public's split on it.
[speaker001:] That's true, that's true.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I often, I mean, that, that, like you say, that's another discussion, but I have had that discussion before as well. Where you weren't, I, I wonder about the po-, politics of it all, so.
[speaker002:] Right, because most of it is politics,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] even in the courts.
[speaker001:] Well even in the courts yo-, well, well, they're all appointed. I mean,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] that's even another issue, you know, should, should, should judges be appointed, you know, and, or, or, um, often times I look at friends, we had, uh, a serial killer around here, who killed eleven women.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, now was that the, um, uh, green, oh, I don't know, some guy that was attacking women jogging? No.
[speaker001:] Ch-, oh, and, and choking them, yeah, uh, his name is Arthur.
[speaker002:] Well did they have a T V movie about him?
[speaker001:] I'm not sure if they had one yet, but, I'm sure they will. Um, because he was, he was on some sort of news special though, he was, he was, uh, he killed, 'cause he was just on trial like maybe a year ago.
[speaker002:] Well, well, how was he killing the women.
[speaker001:] Um, he was strangling some of them.
[speaker002:] Were they jogging on a,
[speaker001:] Oh, no, usually they were prostitutes, actually.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] Because he was, he was actually this is a very sad case. The man was let out, he was in prison for, um, sexually assaulting two children.
[speaker002:] Oh, see, that's what I mean, then they let them out and then they're able to do it again.
[speaker001:] Right, he, he, they let him out and then and then, he wa-, he wasn't allowed back in the town where he had done this so he came to our, he came to Rochester instead and they, they, they realized later he, he had killed about between eleven and twelve women, at least and,
[speaker002:] I think my sister is married to a guy from Rochester.
[speaker001:] Oh, really,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] way up north here, huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah way up nor-, well, uh, I'm originally from Kentucky.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay. Still way up north, sort of, um.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I'm, I was up north too. But, uh, that's one of the reasons I think judges should be the ones to sentence people because they do know, you know,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] if you sentence them to three life times, then they probably won't get out on parole.
[speaker001:] Won't get out, exactly, yeah, this, this, this man was sentenced to, I think, like three life times. But he was, you know, it was just horrible, because, um, his, his, his trial was, you know, was, it wa-, it was televised and this and that, and what they were pleading was, um, they were pleading insanity.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I mean it's clear to me the man is insane.
[speaker002:] Well of course.
[speaker001:] And, and he should be just locked up for life.
[speaker002:] But they just need to do something with him. He needs to be annihilated.
[speaker001:] Right, I mean, I don't know what you do with them at that point, if you're that crazy, but what, what struck me is, you know, they had a psychiatrist testifying for hours and hours and by the end, I realized that maybe it would have been better if they had, it wouldn't have been a jury of his peers, but if they had a jury of psychiatrists instead, [breathing] to sort look at it, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, I don't think it's feasible, but, it would be an interesting thought if you're,
[speaker002:] Well, it's supposed to be a jury of your peers, they couldn't have a, a bunch of psychotics up there [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] No, or, right, right, exactly, but give them a bunch of psychotics but at least have a, have a, have a bunch of psychiatrists,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, just to look at him and decide from then. I mean, they would,
[speaker002:] Did they have a trial by jury for him.
[speaker001:] What's th-, yeah they did.
[speaker002:] Huh, well.
[speaker001:] They had a regular trial by jury for him, and, and,