[speaker002:] okay I guess we're on
[speaker001:] yep
[speaker002:] Central America have you ever lived in Central America
[speaker001:] I wasn't in Central America but uh talking about Latin America I kind of I consider Latin America to include Central and South America and I did live in uh Sao Paulo Brazil for four years
[speaker002:] do you do you think that that we should have given up the Panama Canal
[speaker001:] uh realistically realistically I yes I don't see the the Panama Canal that hasn't had a whole lot of usefulness to us recently since it's not not really big enough to uh accommodate the the shipping that it once did and uh maybe it would be better that we let the Panamanians run it however I think we're certainly justified in uh our actions dealing with uh Noriega in this
[speaker002:] well there are those that that that think that that that the Panama Canal has some considerable strategic importance particularly for the military interestingly enough my father was who was in World War Two and as uh as a civil engineer they they they offered him a commission as a captain if he would uh go in and and uh help with the defenses of the Panama Canal he had worked with United Fruit Company
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] there and they uh they in fact they had this was in uh the late twenties and they in fact used some of the equipment that had been left over and uh he turned them down it it's interesting that that most people don't realize how small the canal is have you ever been there
[speaker001:] no I haven't
[speaker002:] it's it's really I I haven't been there I've been to been to Salvador and and uh in fact we went back to visit some friends of of of my fathers that we went in fifty seven I guess and interestingly enough the canal is quite small and and realistically could be sabotaged quite quite easily the thing I find interesting though is that uh is the whole colonial approach and and and do we do we support the Sandinistas or or do we support uh you know when they thought uh they thought that Nicaragua if you gave them a free election they would vote for the will you uh did did you ever studied the the political makeup there in in in Nicaragua
[speaker001:] I I have a a little bit I can't say that I'm I I would be an expert on the on the region but uh certainly uh I it it gets it gets there you you've got this this toss up between or not not so much a toss up but a a dilemma when when you want a country to have it's it's um own uh dominion or its free rein over its its own people and then on the other hand uh the uh the government in power that under what seem what seems to be popular support uh Sandinistas had to a given extent popular support um starts making overtures to the Soviet Union and and into what we consider our sphere of influence and now we're we're in this dilemma over uh United States is believes in Democracy and and self-determination where and but that on the other hand we believe in self-preservation and uh agree with the or not so much agree with but are terribly concerned about the influence Soviet influence in in what's considered to be the United States' fear of the world which is not only you we used to see spheres but now we're in a situation where the United States is looks like we're it now
[speaker002:] well the interesting part about it is that if realistically it was economic I don't know if you read any of the history on where the Panama Canal but there was an option to build it across Nicaragua uh and there were uh there's a big there's a big lake
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and um from a technical standpoint it wouldn't have been a lot more difficult to have built it in Nicaragua but the the United States uh had some and I've forgotten what the political influence was but there were economic ties then the issue of of of if if it's in the economic interest of the United States uh do we go in and and prevail and and uh in other words do we make the world a safer democracy but if there's no economic benefit
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] and I think particularly if you're if you're looking at the at the at the peasant uh whether he's in Central America regardless of where he is is his life is his life better off under Communism or or uh or Democratic government you look at Salvador where the
[speaker001:] well he doesn't care as long as he's feeding his uh his family
[speaker002:] yeah and and the question is is does the government make a difference if they'll mostly leave him alone uh and I think that's the difficulty they that that we have that uh it it it reality doesn't make uh doesn't make a difference if he has no income and apparently even some of our alleged uh Central American leaders that uh are are that are mostly democratic have done some pretty terrible things so it's uh
[speaker001:] yeah oh you can look in if you pretty if you look at the region and and on to their detriment they came from uh this uh hundreds of years of Spanish control in the in the Spaniards have a horrible history of corrupt uh government greedy uh rulers who uh have been uh I don't know manipulating manipulating their public for their own their own good I mean if you go back to the kings and then the the conquistadors coming in and and the whole the incredibly horrible things they did to the uh the native tribes I mean they make uh they make the things that Custer did look like uh like trivial and uh you get
[speaker002:] it it's it is interesting that that you know we we look at the exploitation and and and then we accuse some other people of exploiting and and and Americans have uh have a pretty good reputation of exploiting you know we basically the Panama Canal we went in and and took it
[speaker001:] oh absolutely and now we set up
[speaker002:] and uh we stole it fair and square I think is uh
[speaker001:] and I mean Ted Teddy Roosevelt didn't have the reputation speak softly and carry a big stick for uh for nothing and uh
[speaker002:] well what's going to be interesting is to see what the economic impact of of uh of the the region uh you know at the moment it the tremendous drug traffic through there but uh the idea of of uh
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] what's the what's America's role there and it it uh with with other things going on it it it seems to have lessened but you've still got uh Cuba that exception exerts some influence
[speaker001:] I've the only the only thing I see about Cuba though is uh after Fidel Castro dies I don't think there'll be Communist power anymore I I can't see Communism in that country carrying on past him
[speaker002:] well when you take a a situation where I think in particular in Salvador where there is a significant under under class excuse me and that uh having a a a lot of difficulty uh surviving uh the question is would they you know would they be better off under communism
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and I wouldn't don't know that I would advocate communism but uh the question is can a can you can a can a democracy uh afford the it's like the street people that are starting to show up all over the US is that that's essentially an underclass and when you get enough of them
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] uh you know Communism would feed them all
[speaker001:] yeah well I I don't know if maybe Communism's the right the right word for it but what we would there'd have to be some kind of there there may be a point at which at at which you've uh you might want to consider some kind of socialistic uh organization or socialistic setup to to deal with the problem and then be able to gradually transform back to a Democracy
[speaker002:] well that yeah if the guys got some incentive if he's got uh you know if if he if he can raise enough uh coffee and bananas to uh where he's got something to protect other you know whether he can export or at least uh set up trade and all then democracy of a considerable interest to him
[speaker001:] right right but cocoa leaves sell real low right now
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] it seems yeah
[speaker002:] as as well as some other various things that are growing in tropical environments
[speaker001:] absolutely absolutely I don't it's gonna be hard to um we've that's you that's you that's that's where you're absolutely right as we've got to do something in that region to encourage uh or to make to make him growing bananas profitable again I mean
[speaker002:] yes but the but the question is you know if somebod y offered you you know a thousand dollars a day to to grow something in your backyard would you do it
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] well not that we could be bought but uh
[speaker001:] I got to watch what I say here I never know when the DIA maybe uh listening on my phone right
[speaker002:] well of course all everything we're saying is being recorded and
[speaker001:] yeah uh it's tempting it's got to be it's got be horribly tempting for those for those
[speaker002:] of course of course
[speaker001:] because yeah yeah yeah you it's not just it's not just a matter of uh of having an
[speaker002:] particularly if you're hungry
[speaker001:] extra car or having a better car this is a matter for them of of feeding themselves their wife and their family and and you there's a certain degree of honor in being able to feed your family and there's dishonor in not being able to do it and
[speaker002:] uh starve to death is not a not a whole lot of fun either and that uh and and and
[speaker001:] oh no
[speaker002:] you know when somebody comes in and offers I think that's one of the real problems particularly when when the uh religious organizations you know the Catholic church has been accused of a lot of things in reality I think what they were doing is basically going in and trying to feed some people
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and help them protect themselves not not that they I'm I'm not sure the Catholic church is is is particularly particularly political but
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] you know if somebody's hungry