[speaker002:] okay so what do you think about us getting involved in the Middle East
[speaker001:] I don't think we have any choice
[speaker002:] oh I don't think we did really either
[speaker001:] as long as we do it in a logical manner rather than what we did in Vietnam except jack around with it
[speaker002:] well that's that's true yeah the uh the the biggest difference I got to agree was the idea that we were allowed to go and get it done rather than than set up a a line and say we're not going to let you cross this this point anymore and that really hurt the uh the people uh the Vietnam experience uh I got to admit that one
[speaker001:] I think uh basically what we're going to have to do is now that Bush has made the made the stand is what we'll have to continue to uh stick up for our foreign policy if we don't then what's going to happen is that everybody well it's just a one time shot they're not going to do anything
[speaker002:] uh-huh well do you think that um by uh going over there and doing what we did that uh it's going to give us a chance for peace over there
[speaker001:] I don't think there's ever going to be peace in in the Middle East
[speaker002:] yeah that kind of
[speaker001:] mostly it it just that that region never had peace even as far back in biblical times it's never been peaceful
[speaker002:] well that's um-hum
[speaker001:] you know the Arabs just don't like the Jews and the Jews don't like the Arabs and then half the Arabs don't like the other Arabs
[speaker002:] but is I mean is that any different than uh the way it is in even our country I mean uh back in the fifties and forties the blacks didn't like the whites the whites didn't like the blacks but we're getting to the point where we get along pretty good I mean isn't it logical that just any of the that you can solve differences like that
[speaker001:] no because you I I don't think the Mideast has the educational background I I I don't think they're later they're rate of literacy is so low that they're still they still have a trouble mentality
[speaker002:] so you um-hum so you think it comes down to education or or something like that
[speaker001:] well well you don't find many intelligent people starting wars you know
[speaker002:] I suppose that's probably true
[speaker001:] you know uh basically the more intelligent people do not want to fight one uh because they've already been there all you have to do is go fight one and find out it's not much fun I've spent uh over twenty eight months in Vietnam so and I mean it's not it's not a lot of fun
[speaker002:] um-hum no oh um-hum
[speaker001:] uh it's as years go by it becomes more fun now than it was twenty eight years ago you know but uh
[speaker002:] yeah because yeah I guess the uh you kind of think about the good things and not about the bad
[speaker001:] and you forget some of the smells and stuff like that but I think you know probably the probably the Middle East is if you have too many tribes mixed up with troubled mentality not only the Mideast but also in in the what they call the emergency African nations the third world
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum right right
[speaker001:] uh as soon as one tribe gets the power they just knock off they're old ancestral enemies and it's pretty you know it's pretty much that way over the Mideast and you have the Palestinian question and there hasn't been a Palestine over there for God since you know two hundred years three hundred years before Christ was born and but but you have people that are suddenly coming out of the woodwork going oh yes we want a Palestine nation but there hasn't been one for you know well over two thousand years
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but you have this troubled mentality they all you know like the Kurds or the Shiite Muslims or whatever but it's basically all all based on the a a tribal network
[speaker002:] right well isn't it also though based on religion I mean isn't that a a real powerful
[speaker001:] out of some degree yeah to some degree but uh religion is a factor over there but uh I think the strongest factor is a tribe of the family
[speaker002:] um-hum well don't don't you think though that uh because of religion it just enhances the differences uh of the tribes and makes it so that it's that much harder to get along
[speaker001:] well they have the same problem we do yeah I mean you know everybody there's Christianity and then you then we have subdivided Baptists and Lutherans and Protestants and Christians and Catholics and stuff it's basically all the same
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh but but the Muslims are not as liberal in their interpretation of of the Kuran as we are in our interpretation of the Bible
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] you get the more the more I guess you call the more militant sect of the Shiites who you know if you're not a Muslim and and you don't adhere adhere strictly to it then you're nothing and you're just you're you're just getting lip service much like uh the Ayatollah Khomeini
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] he's a he's a prime example oh I'd I I will but seriously doubt that that you will have peace in the Mideast as long as you have so many war infections that are they can't even agree on which facet of of uh Muslim they want to follow
[speaker002:] that's true well since there's not going to be peace over there don't you think like getting involved as we have that that's going to mean that we're going to be involved from now on and so any war that breaks out we're going to have to be in the middle of it
[speaker001:] well we only we have two choices we can be involved or not involved if we're not involved then we're going to be sitting over here freezing in the dark
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh we probably could with ultimate fuel supplies and uh some relaxation of our old uh policies here survive but we're not going to do that
[speaker002:] it doesn't seem that way does it
[speaker001:] no there's there hasn't been any real you know alternating energy situations situations or or sources played out nobody wants to do it somebody has to make the hard decision and whoever does that will be a one term president
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah I know
[speaker001:] yeah it's kind of like uh Texas income tax whoever you know whoever puts that up is going to serve one term that's going to be it because your going to be gone they may pass the uh state income taxes but that'll be the last thing they pass
[speaker002:] yeah that's probably true
[speaker001:] nobody actually wants to make the hard decisions have to do is basically what we're doing now is pick some of the moderate uh Arabs or
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know Muslims as and uh support them because they're because they will have more uh encounter with us as far as the educational and sociological economic background goes
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] if you look over there you're not going to you don't see any Arabs driving uh
[speaker002:] hum
[speaker001:] racing cars they want Mercedes or Cadillacs or Lincolns
[speaker002:] true they want the the gas guzzlers yeah
[speaker001:] yeah so you know who's who produces those the US produces those and I think after the war no that we're not going to see a bunch of the Arab nations buying Russian equipment because the Russian equipment has gotten blown out of the sky or off the ground
[speaker002:] um-hum didn't it though yeah I I got to agree with you there I think that does get a lot a lot of good there
[speaker001:] you know and uh we we pretty much proved our worth in combat as it were and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] where did they get the uh where where does the expertise come for for bringing a whole lot of ground and it doesn't doesn't come from Russia and it doesn't come from Europe it comes comes from the United States
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] who's going to put out their oil fires the United States
[speaker002:] hum United States right
[speaker001:] we have the technology when we have the people and we go do it and I think we're going to I think we're going to be a president in a a presence in the Mideast from now on
[speaker002:] um-hum let's say I'd have to say overall that the the war was was beneficia l to the United States with with the change in attitudes and all that you know all that stuff I mean it's people think better about uh the US now and that's really going to I think eventually come back and and help with overall business standards I mean people are going um take more pride in their work and things like that I think it's going to really help out overall
[speaker001:] I I I agree a hundred percent on that after after after all you know I mean everything Bush said Bush put down a deadline if if it wasn't meant to be one he'd attacked
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] and that's the way you're supposed to do it instead of doing like Jimmy Carter did you know say well you know uh um I'm getting out of the olympics and I'm going to give you back Panama
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know I mean you either make your stand or you don't if you can't back it up just don't say anything
[speaker002:] um-hum that's right
[speaker001:] and everything Bush said he backed up of course he course he had some real good help
[speaker002:] um-hum oh yeah he had some excellent military people
[speaker001:] yeah it's like and like Collin Powell and the rest and uh yeah Dick Cheney those people were real smart they're a lot smarter that any body gives credit for
[speaker002:] I I was the person I was impressed with most I mean I I really you know Colin Powell and and General Schwartzkopf they're military people but I really didn't know that Cheney was as military minded as he is I mean
[speaker001:] Cheney's hard core you don't get to be Secretary of Defense by being a wimp
[speaker002:] that's right I well he was what uh a Senator from Utah or something like that I can't remember where
[speaker001:] but he'd served in the military
[speaker002:] yeah and see I don't know that and it well you know I was real impressed with his handling of this I know that
[speaker001:] oh yeah the whole I mean the whole thing was done well it was just you know
[speaker002:] oh yeah
[speaker001:] it was uh of course he had to fight that to beat microscope anyway
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but I hesitate to call it a war since I mean it was I guess it was I'm not used to having them over in six days you know just kind of gosh we just got started good I guess the Israelis might be over it you know uh you know because they had a seven day war at one time but uh
[speaker002:] I don't think very many people are yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] although I I wish instead of turning south you know and taking a right turn and going down Kuwait City I wished we'd just turned left and gone toward Baghdad
[speaker002:] yeah there was uh there was a lot of talk about the idea that the even the uh Iraqis themselves the people wished we would have done that uh
[speaker001:] I think we should have because because we're going if we don't do it now we're going to have to do it shortly
[speaker002:] yeah well unless they finally do take care of it themselves but you know you kind of have to wonder whether it's going to be any better with uh you know depending on whether it Shiite Muslim or uh or the Kurds in power but uh you know
[speaker001:] but the only thing that'll save that is we won't get the credit for or the blame for the massacre and and then if we do have to to go back in it will be because you know someone asked us to
[speaker002:] well that's true too yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] and of course now's the time to do it because since we have the army over there I'd sure hate to you know spend eight months pulling them out and then turn right around send them back over again
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah that's true yeah especially the cost of that and and uh uh the attitudes of the soldiers I mean they're there they I think they could handle it better but if they came back and then had to turn around and go the attitudes would be just horrible
[speaker001:] oh yeah they shouldn't leave anything in Bagdad taller than three feet
[speaker002:] yeah that's probably true
[speaker001:] they just you know just just level the whole place and let it go but we're going to have to be over there and we're and our presence is going to have to be felt and they've got to be strong presidents or presence uh if we don't then I think that we're going to be back there
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know in the Jimmy Carter uh Carter era you know wringing your hands and going trust me trust me
[speaker002:] so do you think it's you do think it's a good idea for us to have uh