[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] All right. Uh, do you have any friends that have children?
[speaker001:] I do have friends that have children, yes.
[speaker002:] And what do they say about finding adequate child care?
[speaker001:] They,
[speaker002:] I think that may be the key word.
[speaker001:] I think that's correct. They're, uh, relatively nonexistent from, uh, from what I hear from my friends. It seems like, uh, even when they have consulted day care centers that are quote unquote reputable, that are sort of like a chain, if I can use that word
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] uh, still you have to deal with the people that, you know, happen to be operating it locally and, uh, it's just a matter of, of trust, you know, I think they feel that these people are, um, under qualified basically and underpaid, and I think that sort of goes hand in hand so it's, it's difficult for them.
[speaker002:] Well, we certainly found that to be true.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] Uh, indeed we've, our children are now eleven and nine.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And we moved away from institutionalized child care
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] if we can call those chain kind of things,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] like that. Uh, by that name.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And found that, uh, more creative avenues were the right answer for us.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh. Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] Uh, at one point in time we've had au pairs,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] by trading services with them,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] and that worked for a while, but they were really, adequate ones were really tough to find.
[speaker001:] I'm sure that's true.
[speaker002:] It takes that mixture of a very mature college student,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] who wants to do something and yet is willing to give the time,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and the interest to the children.
[speaker001:] Right. I do have a friend that, uh, uh, she and her roommate became live-in care givers and they loved it. They had stayed with this family from the time these children were small, you know, four or five years old, up until they were well into grade school. And, uh, she was paid very well because they, the parents trusted them and they, you know, had done such a good job. So, um, I can see where someone, you know, in a position like that, in a live-in capacity, would definitely be the way to go if you're, you're lucky enough to have the financial to be able to do that.
[speaker002:] Well, that's true,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and that's something that we're struggling with now.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I think it's just a matter of priorities. It's, uh, you know, it's a terrible thing to say when your speaking of children in that way, but you still have to be realistic, as well, I think.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Much as other cultures disagree, our lives don't revolve around our children.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's bad to have to admit, too, but, uh, you know, it's just, there's so much pressure when you're talking about two people that work outside the home and, and I think that is one reason why I continue to be without children. I, it's just such a responsibility and, and when I've had friends that have said, when you hear people say, it, it alters your life forever, please take heed [LAUGHTER], well, I realize that's true so it's, uh, such a responsibility.
[speaker002:] Well, it certainly is. Uh, if I can the other side of the coin for a moment.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] It is such an honor and a thrill,
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] to be a parent,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] that most of the time, it's worth it.
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. Most of the time [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Well, I just have to be honest about it. It's not always,
[speaker001:] Yeah. Oh, sure.
[speaker002:] worth it.
[speaker001:] Sure. Sure. Sure.
[speaker002:] There are those times when I think, gee, if I didn't have children I could be out playing bridge or golf.
[speaker001:] Right. Right. Right. Right. But, you know, it's funny. I did, I had a friend that said, you know, before we always said we don't want children because we can't go off on the spur of the moment or this or that and the other and she got older and she said, but you know, we never do those things anyway. So why [LAUGHTER], why am I waiting, you know, it's, it's just the way your attitude changes and you mature I suppose. But the thing about the child care I, you know, I have friends that struggle financially and, and they both do have to work. It's a matter not necessarily, uh, that she might want to stay home or he, as well, but, you know, they need the money. And, uh, when I seen some of my friends that have taken that six week old baby, you know, to someone else, it's just, I can imagine how emotional it must be. And, and, you know, multiplied by the fact that you don't really trust the person or you're uncomfortable with the situation, as far as child care, um, it's just a scary thing.
[speaker002:] Well, we were lucky when our children were that age, and having lived in a community for a while and we knew the person to whom we were entrusting our children.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh. That's a big plus.
[speaker002:] And felt that, that,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and feeling of safety.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And were leaving them small children.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] But, we also learned something from that experience as our children got older.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It's that care givers are not omniscient
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] they are not all things to all people
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] or all children.
[speaker001:] Right. Right. Yeah.
[speaker002:] The ones that are good with babies tend not to be good with toddlers.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Huh-uh. I think it takes a, I don't know, I think your patient level must, needs to increase as the child gets older [LAUGHTER]. I think that might be part of the problem with some people. You know, taking care of a baby, I know, is not an easy thing, but when you have them in, their, their little feet are moving and you have to chase them down constantly. I'm sure that's a whole new ball game.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, I have a nine year old that I would trade happily for a baby.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, really. Well, you sound like your pretty well passed the worst of it as far as worrying about, since they're both in school, you don't have to worry about a full-time person to take care of them. [Voices fading in and out.]
[speaker002:] Oh, you don't know what happens after they get in school.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's something altogether different, uh.
[speaker002:] Oh, yes. Now we have, uh, one takes piano lessons,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] somewhere on one afternoon and the other one, of course can't do the same thing.
[speaker001:] Oh, of course not.
[speaker002:] It has to be somewhere else and no it's not adequate to sit and wait.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] You can't do that. No.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] No. No.
[speaker002:] That just, that will not do.
[speaker001:] That's out of the question, I'm sure.
[speaker002:] Of course.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] But, we are helping, you know.
[speaker001:] Right. Right.
[speaker002:] We are being cooperative, what's wrong with you?
[speaker001:] Right. Right.
[speaker002:] You don't understand this.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] That's just the way their minds work. And it's almost everyday.
[speaker001:] That's amazing. It's amazing that people actually, the stamina that you must, you know, draw from yourself to deal with it. It must be interesting. I guess you find out that you're a much stronger person than you thought, maybe.
[speaker002:] Well, I've been finding out that I really am a nice person. hit for many years.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] because I didn't need it.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And now, I need it.
[speaker001:] Now it's just a reservoir that you tend to regularly, I'm sure.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And it stays low a lot [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Well, are your children now, do you feel comfortable, um, with them coming home after school until you and your wife get home or,
[speaker002:] Absolutely not.
[speaker001:] No. Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean, one of them I would, I would leave unsupervised any time, any place, any where.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] Uh, the other one I wouldn't leave unsupervised two minutes.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. That's just a difference in kids, I suppose.
[speaker002:] That's true.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] What, one leads the other?
[speaker001:] Huh-uh, yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh,
[speaker001:] and it's, it's the one that's going downhill, is it, is it the one that needs, needs more supervision that has a bad influence on the older or more mature one?
[speaker002:] Of course.
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. How unfortunate [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] You don't think, you don't think that good prevails.
[speaker001:] Well, I, I, I'm living in a dream world, what do I know. As I said, I don't have kids and I'm an only child so I've never been around children. So, uh, I'm sort of at a loss where that's concerned. But I do hear my friends talk about it.
[speaker002:] We, we're having such fun, my wife and I were both only children.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And we just couldn't wait to have two children so they would be such friends.
[speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Wrong.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's like World War Three every minute [LAUGHTER]. I don't know I, I, I have to admit, I was self-, selfish as a child. I didn't want a brother or sister. And now that I'm older, of course, it's different. You know, I think about, uh, wouldn't it be nice, but, uh, anyway.
[speaker002:] Just make good friends.
[speaker001:] Yeah, oh, I have wonderful friends. That's true my best friend is one child of ten. And so they just sort of, you know, adopted me as their eleventh child so that worked out pretty well. She never had to worry about taking anybody to child care because there was always somebody there older to deal with them, so I guess, that's an alternative. If you could just, um,
[speaker002:] Have enough.
[speaker001:] have a whole bunch [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] By the time the youngest ones are there, you'll have older one to take care of them.
[speaker002:] That's true.
[speaker001:] I don't know. When you see all these horror stories on television about child care and, gosh, I just, I was seeing something on the television earlier about a little girl that's been telling her mother these terrible stories and of course people are denying it. And, uh, it's just frightening. It really is.
[speaker002:] Well, what, what's frightening is a parent to see things that, that you don't really don't understand.
[speaker001:] Huh-uh. Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] And then you don't really know what happened.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] We gave up on one baby sitter because we came home one night and found pieces of, um, ribbon,
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] you know, hair ribbon
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] tied in a chair. Where obviously she had, had,