[speaker001:] well oh our topic is capital punishment I guess uh one thing is to compare uh how it is maybe here in Texas versus uh
[speaker002:] in Rhode Island
[speaker001:] maybe your part of the country
[speaker002:] yeah I you know I'm not sure if we have the death penalty here to be perfectly honest with you hold on a second do we have the death penalty in Rhode Island no okay no we don't but you know um
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I I have some feelings about it in the sense that I feel if a person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and it's a really heinous crime I feel like the Bible says an eye for an eye
[speaker001:] um-hum describing a heinous crime being like murder or
[speaker002:] yeah you know something really a serial killer or
[speaker001:] what other ones would be
[speaker002:] you know someone who who really has no remorse you know that that just does these things uh I don't know without feeling guilty about it at all you know and the and their we in fact we have an example going on right now with this uh school teacher involved some teenagers
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] into uh committing murder get getting rid of her husband
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] I don't know if you're familiar with it Pamela Smart in New Hampshire
[speaker001:] don't think I've heard of that one
[speaker002:] see now in a situation like that the boys are only sixteen years old and they were sexually involved with her and I think like at that particular point she was twenty three you know so she wasn't really that much older than them and being a boy at that age I think that they're very um you know let's face it that's at a point in your life when you you're just starting to realize all the things of life
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I think she probably had a lot of influence on them and they probably would have never done something like that if it wasn't for the crime of passion type of thing
[speaker001:] yeah we had one uh course in Texas they uh used to string them up now they
[speaker002:] and uh-huh
[speaker001:] got more uh civilized and uh give them lethal injection so we definitely do have uh capital punishment
[speaker002:] yeah now see I agree with that I I don't think a person should be electrocuted or hung or you know in in other words I believe that they should be punished and done away with on one hand like I say if they're if they're guilty beyond a reasonable doubt but if there's the the other the other hand where you say you know if there's just that slim chance that they didn't do it and then you know spend the time say life imprisonment then at least they have a chance to over the years be proven not guilty
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know
[speaker001:] there was one here recently that comes to mind that's about a woman that uh this is ridiculous I mean it's almost uh it'd be funny if it wasn't so so sad I mean this woman this woman went out and hired somebody to uh
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] to uh kill another mother
[speaker002:] oh that's the cheerleader thing
[speaker001:] yeah right have you heard about that one
[speaker002:] oh yes that was on TV here
[speaker001:] yeah isn't that something
[speaker002:] it made national um
[speaker001:] I didn't know it made the national news
[speaker002:] yeah really
[speaker001:] that was something wasn't it uh it's unbelievable this
[speaker002:] but you know I I I saw I can't figure out what people are doing any more I mean it's getting so bad and I don't think unless that the crime that the laws get to the point where people are afraid to do something because they know they'll be punished you know what I'm saying
[speaker001:] well that brings up I guess part of what would be a question is uh you know is I guess you feel like that's a deterrent in uh capital punishment should be
[speaker002:] yeah and you know and I I don't know if it would be but I mean we don't know that it wouldn't either
[speaker001:] well it uh must be I think it's a matter of degree and uh of course uh course it varies from case to case or individual
[speaker002:] yeah and the other point someone made at one one time was that if someone is guilty of a terrible crime or they're a serial killer or mass murderer that if they're in prison that gives you the chance to um get into the person's mind to find out uh what led them to the point that they were at when they committed the crime to uh try to understand how their mind worked to prevent uh you know another person from getting into the same situation
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] but I don't know you know maybe you could do that for a certain period of time but I mean how long does that kind of a thing take you know to to um say to question the person or to get into their head
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know even if it took five years I think that if at that time you you feel that they were guilty or that they were uh of sound mind where they knew what crimes they were committing I mean people know what they're doing
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] you know that that I really do I believe that that capital punishment should be there the prisons are overcrowded it costs the taxpayers a lot of money
[speaker001:] that's one thing down here we certainly have a problem with overcrowded prisons
[speaker002:] yeah I'll tell you in the state of Rhode Island it was so bad that the intake center that they have to house the the criminals before they go to the uh penitentiaries and stuff um were overcrowded and the judge fined the state thousands of dollars a day
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] to build a bigger intake center
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so I mean it it's like where does this all stop
[speaker001:] well they're releasing them uh early here
[speaker002:] exactly same thing here and that's that's what they did
[speaker001:] and and then uh then you hear about ones that are on early release going out and
[speaker002:] yep
[speaker001:] committing a
[speaker002:] in fact the news tonight they had uh someone come on a seventy three year old man they they had gotten into a housing for the elderly and and the person who perpetrated the crime went in with someone who had a relative there and uh apparently this this person was on drugs and the old man was an invalid and he was in an elevator and he died for twelve dollars
[speaker001:] um well I tell you what I think that uh you know this may this may be a cause rather the actual topic but uh I think that a lot of this is caused by the steady diet of violence they seem to
[speaker002:] yep
[speaker001:] want to be uh you know showing on movies and television
[speaker002:] yeah and I also think that the uh fact that a lot of mothers are working today and that children are not bonded to the parents
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and other people take the responsibility for raising these kids or the children are left out you know
[speaker001:] that's true
[speaker002:] on their own and they don't really feel the family um closeness that we had when oh when I was growing up my my mother didn't work you know and when she did uh a part time job she was there you know it wasn't like she
[speaker001:] well well what seems to be the answer is to concentrate on uh you know the children
[speaker002:] getting mothers back in the home
[speaker001:] well yeah well I don't know if that's
[speaker002:] you know kind of
[speaker001:] going to be necessarily workable but it would be uh one way
[speaker002:] oh I know I know
[speaker001:] it certainly has to start with the children
[speaker002:] how do you feel about it do you do you think there should be capital punishment
[speaker001:] yes I do I think it's uh something that unfortunately uh at this stage of the game I would hope that at some point we would become you know civilized enough where we could do away with it but as of right now and the way things are I think it's uh something we just have to have
[speaker002:] yeah I I do myself I really think that it's it's all well and good to um be a do-gooder or to to um you know try to spare everyone's life but when someone has no regard for another person excuse me their property or their personal uh being or their families I mean you know when whole families are killed and
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and and yet you have someone who'll commit a crime of robbery and spend twenty five years in jail I mean to me it's like we have things messed up somehow you you know what I mean
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and and like this banking crisis thing where people have stolen millions of dollars and they're out walking around
[speaker001:] huh well I just uh
[speaker002:] I think all our laws are are really screwed up I do I I don't know what to do about it I wish I did but uh
[speaker001:] well I think it comes back to uh starting with the children once you get them you know if you get them
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] where they have a sense of values and uh you know that uh that's what it takes
[speaker002:] yeah exactly morals yeah
[speaker001:] that people start uh oh you know repeat about it you know they start to see this violence in a steady diet and uh it's to be uh just
[speaker002:] did you ever see the program uh Why Does Johnny Kill
[speaker001:] uh
[speaker002:] about these young children who were were not even like sixteen years old they were eleven and twelve and fourteen and fifteen year olds and they they actually committed murders and the question was whether to try them as adults or as children
[speaker001:] all right can't remember that
[speaker002:] and whether or not to uh institute you know capital punishment where it was necessary and things like that
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] that has to
[speaker001:] that's a tough one too
[speaker002:] yeah I I mean what would you do in a situation like that you say well he's only ten years old but the crime he committed is that of an adult
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] he made that decision
[speaker001:] we had a personal experience with something like that it wasn't didn't go as far as murder but this this girl young girl had uh she had gotten hold of a gun and she came around to the office where my wife worked and she was she had this mental problem with uh with a doctor she works for him and uh he was she was just after him you know and the cops pick her up
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and uh there wasn't a thing they could do you know they'd take her down to the juvenile hall and then they'd have to let her go and she'd be back doing it
[speaker002:] yeah imagine so see this is what I'm saying and even with uh people who are mentally incompetent you know uh like deranged it's so hard to get people even institutionalized because they're overcrowded so you have people walking the streets that are child molesters or uh