[speaker001:] So, how do you feel about capital punishment?
[speaker002:] Well, I, I'm not really certain how I, uh, I'm not certain that, that it does a lot of good. I mean, that it ends up, ends up effectively, uh, uh, uh, avoiding a lot of the crimes that have capital punishment
[speaker001:] Right, you don't think,
[speaker002:] penalties. Yet, on the other hand, uh, I don't know, I mean, there is things that [LAUGHTER] seems like it's, it's, it's the right thing to do. Now, you know, I mean somebody, a s-, s-, serial killer or somebody goes in and machine guns, you know, fifty, fifty children in a school yard, you kind of, I don't know. What about yourself?
[speaker001:] I, uh, I have the same dilemma, I think. Uh, it's, you know, it seems right sometimes and then other times, you don't know.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] I mean, people, like, I, it's been, I mean, like the Arab societies and stuff end up, uh, having [throat clearing] e-, effective, effective punishments and, and they're extremely severe. Uh, I, you know, I think to a certain degree, the reason that it, it doesn't serve as a deterrent, uh, may be because y-, you never know if it's going to be a-, applied. Right, un-, unlike, uh, like in, in Arab societies. If you get, get caught stealing, they chop off your hand and
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and you walk around the rest of your life with one hand and everybody knows exactly what, what for.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Uh, and, you know, and here, with our court system and, and ways of sort of screwing it around and stuff you can, you can kind of always count on the fact, or, or there is a good chance you're going to get off.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. And also, it doesn't seem like it does that many harm, I mean, sure, their life is taken, but they'd spend the rest of their life in jail anyway, so
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I think sometimes they'd prefer just to get it over with so it's more of the easy way out than
[speaker002:] Yeah, some people,
[speaker001:] making them pay for the con-, for the
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know, what they've done.
[speaker002:] Except that, I mean, the, the average cost [throat clearing] to si-, [lipsmack] to society of having somebody in jail for all their life is, is extremely high. I mean, something, I, I was amazed at. Uh, uh, per year, it's something like twenty thousand dollars per inmate per year.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] To keep people in jail. Uh, you know, and it's sort of a [LAUGHTER], sort of a crass perspective [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] on the usage of capital punishment, but on the other hand, uh, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know if it's that is, that is that serious that they're really never going to be out of jail, uh...
[speaker001:] Right, but then again, also, you can't bring back lives that have been taken anyway, so
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [faint].
[speaker001:] uh, it's, it doesn't, it seems by, that by, I don't know, doesn't ever really, p-, uh...
[speaker002:] Oh, I know, I mean, you can't, it doesn't,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Taking, taking one more life doesn't, doesn't, doesn't re-, get things back the way they were, right.
[speaker001:] Right. It doesn't bring back every,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I don't know, I, I don't, I really don't know, uh,
[speaker001:] What state are you in?
[speaker002:] I'm in Texas.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] W-, w-,
[speaker001:] In Dallas?
[speaker002:] No, I'm in Austin.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] Where, where are you calling from?
[speaker001:] Uh, right now I'm in Utah, but I'm from Plano, Texas.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So, uh, uh, what are the laws like in Texas?
[speaker002:] It's, Texas is, has, is one of the, one of the s-, well, I guess there is more and more states that are, that are going back to capital punishment. Uh, Texas has had it for a while. It's one of the quickest, it, it, once it was, it was reallowed, I think it was outlawed for a while, but, uh, by the supreme court, I mean, or, the interpretation of the constitution and it seems like everybody stopped and then, and then once they sort of reallowed it, Texas was one of the first to, uh, to actually, uh, implement it again.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] They do it by, uh, by, do it by lethal injection.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I'm originally from Kansas and in Kansas also, uh, they, they almost immediately put back capital punishment and, uh, there they do it by hanging.
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] Still, uh, they have, I still remember the, the, the movie, uh, IN COLD BLOOD. I don't know if you've ever, I'm sure you're familiar with it, but, have you seen the movie?
[speaker001:] I haven't, no.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That way.
[speaker001:] And they do it that way?
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, they, they show it, not, not, I mean, the, the movie was made in, like, nineteen sixty-two or something like that
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] and so it's, uh, it's not particularly graphic, but on the other hand it's, it's fairly impressive to watch them, you know, walk into the room with gallows. It's kind of a barn like structure.
[speaker001:] Wow. I think they're there, I think that capital punishment is, is, uh, in t-, in Utah also. I'm not really familiar.
[speaker002:] Is that right? Are you there in school?
[speaker001:] Yeah, I am.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, but I think they d-, a long time ago, I, I remember my dad was telling me this, I think, that, uh, they do it by, like, a bunch of men have guns and one of them has the real gun in it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, has, has a, yeah.
[speaker001:] So they don't know who killed,
[speaker002:] Has a real bullets and the rest of them have blanks?
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I certainly wouldn't want to be the executioner, I know that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, no.
[speaker002:] I've always said that if I, if I had to kill and clean and do my own, my own meat, I think I'd become a vegetarian.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. I know.
[speaker002:] As long as you're sort of safely removed from it, it seems, seems not so, so bad, I guess.