[speaker001:] oh let's see um crimes and circumstances actually I'm I'm against capital punishment um probably not for the reasons that a lot of people are I'm against it because I really don't think that uh there are any crimes that warrant executing a person and the reason I think that is because I really don't have the belief that uh any particular person's life is worth so much that you ought to take this other guy's life for it I think you can either you know put him in jail for you know for some very long period of time or if they're really you know mentally ill then I don't think they can really be held accountable for their actions anyway
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so uh I just I I'm just basically against it uh I also I also don't have enough faith in our our criminal justice system to to avoid getting the bloopers in there once in a while
[speaker002:] well that's probably a pretty good objection um yeah actually I'm I'm in favor of it um well this ought to be an interesting discussion uh um I my basic reason is that uh if someone uh willfully takes a life of another individual um I think that they have in most cases forfeited um their convention by which they agree to abide to when when they enter into society um you know they have there's a a convention that you know you shall not kill other individuals um and if you can kill with impunity um then that kind of makes you king of the hill in a society that that can't control you uh and if you've shown that that you have such an utter disregard for other individuals that that you kill uh cold-bloodedly or whatever then uh it's probably uh a good thing to remove remove you from that society um and one probably one of the more effective ways of of doing that is through the death penalty uh because it's a highly visible sort of action um and it also sends a message that you know this this sort of behavior is not tolerable within the society and you will forfeit all your rights uh if you engage in such activity
[speaker001:] uh-huh well is isn't locking somebody up I mean equivalent to that
[speaker002:] so well um yeah in a sense that you know that individual is removed from direct contact with society but that individual then becomes a burden to society a non productive burden
[speaker001:] yeah do you I
[speaker002:] uh because they'd sit there and I mean their quality of life is horrible uh because they're rotting away in a jail uh and the taxpayers are paying you know for them to sit there and twiddle away and and make license plates or something
[speaker001:] yeah yeah actually see I'm I'm sort of uh there are there are some other things I'm against I'm against also I think I think that jailing people for a really long period of time is is tantamount to sort of cruel and unusual punishment which I'm also against
[speaker002:] well yeah
[speaker001:] so and so so I'm sort of in this quandary you know I mean either you have either either you execute them and uh you're done with it or you know you throw them you throw them in jail for some incredibly long period of time and then I think well I wouldn't you know you you don't want to be cruel to these guys and they say by throwing them in a jail where they're you know they're constantly abused or what other other brother or uh other other cell mates you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so so you kind of get into this hotel phenomenon you know where you got to set up you know some incredibly safe rubber room but you know then when you set up the rubber room you know it's so uh it's so antiseptic that it's almost drives the person crazy if he isn't crazy already and so isn't that cruel and unusual punishment
[speaker002:] right right exactly exactly
[speaker001:] um on on the other hand I think there a lot of individuals who probably haven't really signed up to the idea of you know our concept I mean most western people's concept of civilization you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and I I mean western in the sense of just you know western philosophy I guess um
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] but you know I I kind of don't buy into the idea that uh that to have a society you necessarily have to to you know terminate somebody if they have stepped across that line because I think there are probably a lot of instances where um you get into a situation where somebody hasn't really signed up to being in that society and I mean they kind of consider it almost they're protecting themselves or something and if society well for instance if society sort of forces themselves on somebody you know you hear it once in a while you hear about these incidences where uh
[speaker002:] how so uh
[speaker001:] some guy is you know off there in the wilderness or something you know and and and he just doesn't wanna be part of society
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and society kind of invades his turf you know makes him wanna or you know makes him makes him sort of abide by their rules when he really wasn't even known to society before and he winds up you know shooting somebody or you know killing a cop who's trying to get him to you know come in to pay his there's a million there's a million things you know that I can imagine million scenarios that I can imagine where the guy would be sort of like hey I don't wanna be in this society you know leave me alone you know and he'd fight back and if he killed somebody you know he'd get the death penalty you know