[speaker001:] Okay, where does she live?
[speaker002:] Uh, on Rutherford.
[speaker001:] Rutherford. I don't know that.
[speaker002:] It's, uh, corner of New York
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, just west of Mayfield.
[speaker001:] It's, oh, oh, south and, okay, yeah, I know where you, I know the area.
[speaker002:] Uh.
[speaker001:] Right, that's kind of on the other side of town, so
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] our kids probably never went to school together or anything [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Oh, they're, they're little ones [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, well, I've got one in college [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] By now.
[speaker002:] Let's see, we're on government,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] whether we think it's honest [LAUGHTER] or can be.
[speaker001:] Whether it is possible to have an honest government. I'm beginning to think it's not. What about you? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I, I don't think under the way the system is right now, it is.
[speaker001:] I don't either. I, I think, uh, even if people have good intentions, I think [breathing] uh, power corrupts or something [LAUGHTER] to a certain extent, you know.
[speaker002:] The ultimate power, ultimately re-, [LAUGHTER] corrupts.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it seems like, uh, maybe more of them come in with good intentions, but it's just so enticing, and a lot of corners being cut and the special deals available, because they're in on the know, you know [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I don't know if,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] there is enough money that you could pay them just,
[speaker001:] [Breathing].
[speaker002:] you know [breathing] X amount of money to keep them honest. I just, I just don't, uh,
[speaker001:] Right. I mean, you even see people on a small scale cheating when they have certain positions, you know what I mean?
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Little bitty, little bitty positions in your own home town, and they'll cheat somehow or, you know, bend the rules, use their power. So maybe it's just man's nature [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] We had, uh, here in Oklahoma we had a few years ago a major, uh, corruption on, on our county commissioners
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and there were several counties, uh, including the one I was in, that lost every one of their county commissioners and,
[speaker001:] Oh, my word.
[speaker002:] I mean, it was to the point of not just losing their job, but going to jail.
[speaker001:] Oh, wow. What were they doing taking some,
[speaker002:] Oh, they were taking kickbacks.
[speaker001:] Oh, no [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, gosh.
[speaker002:] Just a little here, a little there.
[speaker001:] Yeah, right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Major amount here, a major amount there.
[speaker001:] Right [LAUGHTER]. Oh.
[speaker002:] But I think there was something like, you know, thirty or forty commissioners that ended up going to jail.
[speaker001:] Um. We haven't had that big a scandal in Arlington, but we do have the people that work for the convention center were falsifying records. In other words, they'd go out and have a big, lavish dinner and then put somebody's name down that they supposedly had entertained, but that person wasn't even anywhere near there, you know. Some of them weren't even in the same city. One of them had, had cancer and died and [LAUGHTER] I mean, that was our biggest scandal for the last few years, I think.
[speaker002:] Uh, that's, that's small scale. I don't know, you know, I really don't know what could be done. Uh,
[speaker001:] I don't, I don't either. Uh, to make it totally honest. Uh, I think there's, there's always going to be some way somebody can cut a corner, uh. However, the things that have gone, gone on in the last couple of years, we can't afford too many of those, you know, the
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] the HUD mess or the S and L. We could almost not afford such terrible corruption.
[speaker002:] The cover-ups and,
[speaker001:] Right, right. I think that, uh, Reagan and Bush were up to their necks in that Iran Contra thing, and it kind of makes you feel bad that the top people in your country would be lying to you like that, but, uh,
[speaker002:] I, uh, I don't know. I just, uh, I'd like to believe that there is some way that our political people would really go there and look out for our interests.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] I think that's what upsets me worse than, that they're getting a little, you know, uh, on the side
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that, that,
[speaker001:] That's right, but they stay there,
[speaker002:] it seems that when they get up there it's, it's what, if I vote your way, what it'll do for me rather,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] than this is the way my constituents want it.
[speaker001:] Right, and this would be for the best for the nation overall. You're right, it's just a, I don't know. I guess that's where they stay in, uh, in, they try to stay in office. But they always please the money people too. They need money so much, because they're constantly having to run,
[speaker002:] run,
[speaker001:] for office again. And,
[speaker002:] Maybe and then you think, well, if it was longer terms
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] then they would never have to try to please the people at home [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's true. Boy, it is a big problem, but I think most people are kind of depressed and cynical about government now, don't you?
[speaker002:] I don't think that they, anyone has a lot of respect or faith in the government.
[speaker001:] I know. It's really terrible. I mean, there was a time, I mean where, I remember when I was real young, I just loved Harry Truman. I thought he was great [LAUGHTER]. Oh, you know, I had, some of them seemed like kind of, uh, heroic people.
[speaker002:] Well [throat clearing] I wonder if they really were,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] or if we just really didn't,