[speaker001:] Do you have any personal feelings on, on uh, the subject?
[speaker002:] Well, uh, capital punishment is a hard thing, but, uh, there's been several, there have been several things that have happened where I felt like if I had been involved in it I would have had to, to go along with, with that being the punishment given to, to the people.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] There have been some things, you know, there's things done that are just [sigh],
[speaker001:] So outrageous. I know, I know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that I do not know how, I do not really there's any other way to deal with it.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] Well I, I guess my concern is what we are reading, especially in Texas right now with them letting out [sigh] the people out of jail as soon as they are out of prison when they do and having them go right back the day they get out, back in crime.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I think that that, that,
[speaker001:] And especially when they are assaulting,
[speaker002:] that's a really,
[speaker001:] people and then killing people, I mean, the man who,
[speaker002:] [Sniffing].
[speaker001:] killed those three sheriffs deputies, he is out free, walking the street. I have a real problem,
[speaker002:] Yeah, if it's a,
[speaker001:] with that.
[speaker002:] if it's a clear and present danger, I mean it,
[speaker001:] I think so.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] But, it's something that's really [inhaling] hard to deal with, the way that our justice system is right now, [sigh] is basically set up in lawyers and, and anybody,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] will tell you that, uh, it is set up right now, all the laws protect the criminal.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] They are the ones with the rights.
[speaker001:] Well, *slash unit, since A's next turn does not pick up this false start
[speaker002:] They have the right to, uh, [sniffing] you know, I think I watched something last week, uh,, I am sorry, the accused has the right to a speedy trial. But, the victim does not have the right, does not have the same [barking]
[speaker001:] Does not have the right [LAUGHTER]. * slash error
[speaker002:] does not have the same, the same emphasis on those things,
[speaker001:] Right. *slash error
[speaker002:] as far as they are concerned, so, now the accused can, can ask for delays and extensions and,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] what do they call,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] whatever they call them, you know.
[speaker001:] And meanwhile, the witnesses,
[speaker002:] [Sniffing].
[speaker001:] move and die and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh, exactly.
[speaker001:] and they,
[speaker002:] Continuance,
[speaker001:] and there's no one to face them.
[speaker002:] They can get continuances on for years, before the thing ever comes to trial and that makes the victim [inhaling] suffer,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] more.
[speaker001:] Right. Well,
[speaker002:] The,
[speaker001:] they can not get any, if the judge is going to have any award to the victim, it just puts off their collecting it. *probably should be cannot
[speaker002:] Yeah, that too.
[speaker001:] It's,
[speaker002:] Um,
[speaker001:] it's really bad, it, I,
[speaker002:] I think that, uh, you know, that there needs to be a way that, you know, once someone [inhaling] has gone through, [sigh] you know, a trial, I do not know how to fix it. I mean, it just seems like there, [inhaling] there should be a limit on how many appeals can be made.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You know, when someone has been,
[speaker001:] A time limit too.
[speaker002:] ha-, Yeah,
[speaker001:] Do not let it, * Seems that this is continued in A.59
[speaker002:] when someone ha-,
[speaker001:] drag on for fifteen years, * See note above
[speaker002:] Well, even when someone has been convicted and, I mean, it's just so, so abundantly clear that they did it.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But appealing, you know, and continuing to appeal, like four or five or six times. To have convictions overturned and then they have to be retried and all that. It's such a waste of time and energy and money. And it, it just, that's what keeps, that's what is keeping all the, the, you know, the criminals in a position of being able to be released all the time, like this.
[speaker001:] Right. Do you feel like there's any certain type of crime that this should be the results, they should be consequences of capital punishment, or, or,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] are there some murders committed that you think leniency should be shown.
[speaker002:] [Inhaling] Well, [breathing] I guess there's extenuating circumstances to anything like that. Uh, [TV] you know, like I, I could see, uh, a first time offender being, you know, maybe, [inhaling] in a, in a robbery situation, trying to hold up a store and getting scared and, you know, firing a gun and accidently killing someone.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Okay, I could see that that might be the situation where, [inhaling] uh, the person could be rehabilitated. But, I think just out and out murder, and I am talking about, uh, cutting people up
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] you know, where there's shown to be pathological tendencies where this person has done it over and over again, in a serial fashion or whatever [TV]. That those,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] kinds of things and any, any kind of violent assault, rape included,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] needs to addressed in, in, in that context [TV].
[speaker001:] And how do you feel about murders of law officers or fire people or something that are, because they have had them, they have had them killed when they have,
[speaker002:] Well, what bothers me, that bothers me a great deal, I had a friend who was a police officer, who was killed in the line of duty.
[speaker001:] Um, um, um.
[speaker002:] And the thing that was the worst about it is that these, that, uh, two of these individuals were, well all of the individuals involved were very young. One was technically a minor, and so he was sent back to Mexico, * Geezthis utt combined with B.80 utt1 seem to total 4 legitimate slash units instead of just 1.
[speaker001:] Uh. *slash error
[speaker002:] he was an illegal alien, the other two had lived here, [sniffing] they had graduated from high school here, * See note above and they had told their teachers that wh-, I mean, repeatedly during high school, they had told their teachers that they were going to be, that they were [TV] going to graduate from high school and kill cops [TV].
[speaker001:] That was their goal. *slash error
[speaker002:] That was what they had told their,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] teachers, and so that's what they did [NOISE]. And, uh, [inhaling] they were, [NOISE] they were given, I think,
[speaker001:] That would be premeditated [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, absolutely.
[speaker001:] Uh. *slash error
[speaker002:] [Sniffing] He stopped them for routine traffic violation and they [TV] uh, [throat clearing]
[speaker001:] They killed him. *slash error
[speaker002:] several, several things happened that night but they, they beat him up and took his gun and shot him
[speaker001:] Uh, uh, uh.
[speaker002:] with it. And it was, it was really terrible. I mean, uh, I had seen him like three or days before that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] He, we had gone out, uh, [NOISE] with he and his wife and that was really, really disturbing [NOISE],
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, that that happened. And these people, [inhaling] you know, in the, in the course of the trial, you know, came up with, with all these, you know, things about well, you know, they were disadvantaged and all this stuff. Well, nobody is that disadvantaged [NOISE].
[speaker001:] No. Well, that's right, there's no reason,
[speaker002:] And there's just no rea-, I mean,
[speaker001:] for murder.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] [Noise] I do not care if you are poor or if you are rich or if you are,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] ugly or pre-, what there, that, that's just beyond,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think so too.
[speaker001:] the,
[speaker002:] And that's, uh, so, I, I do feel strongly about.
[speaker001:] I think this giving excuses is pretty prevalent, uh, yo-, I work in the school district * 2 slash units? and the, all these kids, they have got an excuse for everything.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And I can see it continuing on when they are adults. I just, [NOISE] it's just a bad habit, uh, uh. kids have got to learn from the time they are real little, there's no excuse for, for being bad or making bad choices deliberate or anything. *2 slash units?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's, [inhaling] it's, uh, I, I sometimes think if I were on a jury [TV] and had to make the decision could I. And I like to think I could, like you, if, if especially violent [TV] crime,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] where serial type killer or maybe a child has been deliberately killed.
[speaker002:] The thing that even though juries sometimes make the decision and still the people, nothing ever happens to them.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] [Noise] You know, they stay in jail, they get off time for good behavior and all that stuff, and they get released [NOISE].
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And they go right back and do it again.