[speaker001:] I'll start
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] um my feeling is that you become a politician perhaps because um you think you're doing something noble perhaps because you're on a power trip but
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] what it all comes down to is you are doing this because you think that your approach is better than what another person's approach is and you're looking to impose their will upon them your will upon them
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and um so there's a fundamental problem
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] okay is that you you get into this to impose your will upon others
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] if you um could do it you know if you didn't need to impose your will then you could just do it by suggesting or writing articles in newspaper or what have you
[speaker002:] right right but it it does seem like a problem that the only people who become president are people who want to be president and I don't really know if I want anybody who really wants to be president
[speaker001:] well I think that the uh what do you call it uh you know those those guys who took pen to parchment a couple hundred years ago
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] had some good ideas and um one of the things that I think has gotten out of hand
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] is what the government does what kind of things they get involved it
[speaker002:] that's possible
[speaker001:] um there was a time when the government wouldn't wouldn't think of telling you what you could eat or smoke um there was a time when the government wouldn't think of um imposing heavy taxes on transportations on on your means of transportation to uh build uh roads where they wanted them
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] and I think those those are the first of things that come to mind I think that um if what the government sets out to do is fairly limited
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] then the people who decide they want to be politicians can't get into a whole lot of trouble
[speaker002:] that's true
[speaker001:] um it's only when you try to run every aspect of life from cradle to grave that when a politician runs amok they can do serious damage
[speaker002:] that's an interesting point so you're you're taking sort of a libertarian view here
[speaker001:] oh absolutely um you know I think that uh we've gotten ourself into a lot of trouble um I think that well I think that getting ourselves out of it is going to be painful
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] um I hope it happens peacefully
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] because it will happen
[speaker002:] now what sort of uh what sort of which part which sort of trouble are you speaking of
[speaker001:] well we're in a situation right now where um uh the comment even in a situation right now where um large portions of your life are controlled by forces that aren't particularly interested in your welfare and um
[speaker002:] what sort of control
[speaker001:] the quality of life is deteriorating uh
[speaker002:] what control what sort of controls are you thinking of
[speaker001:] well take well taking half your income is uh a pretty good one uh not being permitted to defend yourself is another one um
[speaker002:] or what sort of areas you know life  um
[speaker001:] I don't know what the laws are like in New York in in California but in New York um if you wake up one night and go down stairs and see a fellow about to climb out the window with your TV set you cannot use deadly force against them
[speaker002:] well then the question is so he's climbing out the window
[speaker001:] with your TV set yeah
[speaker002:] with your TV set and you feel that a fitting punishment for television theft is death
[speaker001:] um um well there's an interesting issue there uh let's suppose someone breaks the window of your car and steals your radio
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] all right um we look at this and we say okay fine it's three hundred dollars damage just picking a number off the top of my head
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] let's suppose you make thirty five bucks an hour uh thirty bucks an hour to make the math easy
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] theoretically ten working hours of your life have just vanished
[speaker002:] oh sure
[speaker001:] and and and don't quote on the uh example of insurance because that means those ten working hours of someone else's life got vanished
[speaker002:] right and you're pay for it eventually
[speaker001:] yeah one way or another um so when material objects are destroyed you know it's it's it's it's you you you it's it's a um how can I better say it you know when a material object is destroyed it is a portion of one's life that's consumed if you look at it that way
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know it's not as cut and dry and radical as uh you know as um when someone is killed in cold blood but uh there is a very very subtle effect there and I think one of the problems we have with law today is that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] when somebody runs out and passes a law be it increase in taxes be it what have you generally speaking
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] um you're not creating anything you're just moving stuff from one place to another okay you're moving some kind of uh you know if if you um very strongly reinforce the particular enforce enforce enforce a particular um civil right um one of the example that comes to mind is Miranda
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] okay um which I think is a good thing um but