[speaker001:] It seems to me that one of the biggest differences is the computer revolution.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, I can very clearly remember ten years ago I was just beginning to explore computerizing my office and, and trying to find out what kinds of computers might be useful and we did end up with, uh, I B M, P C -s, which I now would not have chosen [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker001:] But that was before the Macintosh.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And twenty years ago I was, uh, in graduate school pecking out a dissertation on a manual typewriter [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, I know it.
[speaker001:] So I would say that's one of the largest changes in, at least in my life.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, I've seen that just in the last, uh, even five years how much they've in-, uh, increased in use. Or probably eight years, when I was a freshman in college
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, my degree was in computer, uh, technology originally and it seemed like it would, they were just getting out with the, you know, the disks and all that, getting away with the cards,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, doing away with the, the programming cards
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] and, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah, thirty years ago I, I had a college job, uh, working as a programmer and we had to write code in binary and, uh, have it punched in on those little cardboard cards [LAUGHTER] which,
[speaker002:] I know.
[speaker001:] I don't think exists anymore.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] You never see one of those punch cards anymore.
[speaker002:] Uh, I think T V has a lot to do with the changes, too. Don't you? In, like, people's attitudes.
[speaker001:] Well, very possibly. Uh, I'm not sure in the last ten years it's been very different from before. Uh, certainly in the last thirty I would say there have been significant changes. Even, even the change from black and white to color television.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Thirty years ago I guess there were color T V -s, but I sure didn't have access to one.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And, uh, but, twenty years ago, practically everybody had a color T V, and now I think they're as, almost as many, well, there are more T V -s than households, so
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] it's close to getting, uh, one T V per person they say [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And now everybody, uh, has V C R -s and two or three V C R -s
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and that kind of thing.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Certainly ten years ago, uh, V C R -s were just coming on the market so that's made a significant difference in the way I watch television for instance, because, uh, now I almost never watch a T V program when it's on.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I know.
[speaker001:] I tape it and then watch it when it's convenient and that way I don't have to worry about being interrupted. I can just put it on pause [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, and you can, you can flip through the commercials so you don't have to watch the commercials.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] That's always h-, convenient.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yes, you can watch a program in forty-five minutes instead of an hour [LAUGHTER]. You skip the commercials.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. So, what was our question about, decline in socio-,
[speaker001:] Wasn't the decline so much. I think they just said the changes in, uh, social, social changes in the United States.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] How was life different ten, twenty, or thirty years ago. So,
[speaker002:] Well, I can't really remember back that far, but [breathing] ten years ago, uh, I don't know. I'd say, like in the nineteen seventies you remember how kids would walk around with A M, what do you call those, little A M radios
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] and now people have jam box with C D players in them, you know.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yes. That's certainly,
[speaker002:] And,
[speaker001:] a difference.
[speaker002:] hand held T V -s and car phones.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's another one, yeah, car phones is a good point, and, uh, cellular phones of all types and beepers. Uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] ten years ago I was working in a job at a medical center and I had to carry a beeper around and they were kind of bulky and all they did was just, uh, make a beep noise and then you had to go find a telephone and call in to find out what they wanted you for and who you were supposed to call.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] These days they have these tiny little things that are only about the size of two or three pencils and they fit in your shirt pocket and they have a little display screen that shows you a message and either tells you a person or a, a phone number to respond to and,
[speaker002:] Those are cool.
[speaker001:] Yeah, those are pretty neat. And they have the kind that just vibrates so you can shut them off,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] in a theatre or something and you can still get your messages [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, let's see, social changes, uh, uh,
[speaker002:] Where do you think it's, where do you think it's going to go in twenty years?
[speaker001:] I haven't the slightest idea. I was just thinking, though, about a, a huge social change in the last ten years is AIDS.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It was just beginning to be recognized and noticed ten years ago. I, I know that because I was writing a paper about it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I was writing a, a journal article. Uh, and they still didn't even know what caused it or anything. And, uh, there was a suspicion,
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] that it was a virus but nobody had identified it and they were really just going on epidemiological, uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, guesswork, uh, because the way it was transmitted made it look an awful lot like, uh, hepatitis and then,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] from, from the spread pattern of hepatitis, they could work backwards to the transmission by, uh, blood and semen. And then I,
[speaker002:] I'm curious what was your, uh, graduate study in?
[speaker001:] Well, I, I was in English as a matter of fact, and
[speaker002:] Oh, wow.
[speaker001:] medieval studies,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, but I went to work as an editor and writer, so, uh, uh, the, ten years ago I was working in the medical center, uh, publishing a journal and writing about medical topics [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, let's see, twenty years ago, I guess we 're were just beginning to get into what they were calling the, uh, the sex revolution where, uh
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] after the pill and, uh, uh, freed people up from worries about, uh, illegitimate pregnancy and, I guess in the seventies is the, the time when that was supposed to have exploded. Thirty years ago there was no pill.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. You think that's caused a lot of pressure on, like younger kids today,
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] to make choices that they probably shouldn't have to make?
[speaker001:] I do. I really do. I have, uh,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] four kids in college right now, children and stepchildren and I know that the expectation for them was, uh, to have sex and, much earlier,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] than the expectation when I was in college.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] In my day, we talked quietly behind our hands about people that we suspected might be,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] sleeping with their boyfriends [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, they certainly didn't expect everybody to and it was really only, uh, acceptable if you were engaged and planning to get married in, in the relatively near future.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I certainly know from talking to my stepdaughter that girls in high school were under a whole lot more pressure nowadays.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah. It's kind of scary when I think of what will happen in twenty years, you know, when I have kids and they're grown and [pause] [breathing], uh, just kind of some of the changes that will happen even more so.
[speaker001:] And I guess the answer,
[speaker002:] Seems like it can't get much worse.
[speaker001:] is, is, stay flexible because nobody can predict what's going to happen in twenty years [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I certainly wouldn't have been able to twenty years ago tell you what, uh, my kids were likely to be like. Course, one of them was just a, a, a brand new baby twenty years ago, so [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I sure wouldn't have been able to predict for him.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] And some of the other ones weren't born.
[speaker002:] Yeah. So, sounds like America's going to become even more communication society with faxes and cellular phones and
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] worldwide communication and,
[speaker001:] Electronic mail.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I just got on that this past, about a year ago and that's made a difference in the way I do my job because it's so much easier to get hold of people and get quick answers to things.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Even when they're on another continent.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] It's pretty wild.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Even, you know, that reminds me, Federal Express was around ten years ago, but it was used as kind of an extreme emergency
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and nowadays people use Fed Ex, all the time.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Sure do. Huh.
[speaker001:] People do seem to travel more. It's much more common for people, even teenagers to be going to Europe and South America and,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Asia. Uh, I was almost thirty before I got off this continent.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, both my kids had been abroad when they were still in high school [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah [pause] [breathing]. I know that's what, uh, what my family was talking when I picked up and moved to Texas from Indiana and they were like, well, you know, twen-, thirty years ago we wouldn't have done that, you know.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, especially come home every couple months.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, and,