[speaker001:] hi this is Judy I'm from Maryland and I'm in California visiting right now
[speaker002:] hi Judy this is Norma and I live in Virginia
[speaker001:] oh okay
[speaker002:] we got a great topic
[speaker001:] I know I'm sitting here going oh dear should we give it a try
[speaker002:] I guess we might as well
[speaker001:] okay  okay
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] well um so so so what changes have you seen
[speaker002:] let you start  what changes uh I guess the biggest I don't know your age Judy but I in my lifetime the biggest is in more women working definitely
[speaker001:] well actually that's what I was thinking too
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and um you know just to jump ahead a little bit but then we can back up is it perhaps women in politics is for the future
[speaker002:] for the future right yeah
[speaker001:] because I don't see that really yet in positions of power really
[speaker002:] right I don't see them in positions in power in corporations either not many
[speaker001:] ah that's true that's true um do you work in private corporation or government
[speaker002:] I did work in government
[speaker001:] ah
[speaker002:] and before that I worked in a bank for eight years
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and now I'm retired
[speaker001:] oh are you that's the best status yes um I don't I see um in
[speaker002:] that's right which do you work in excuse me
[speaker001:] a government
[speaker002:] in government
[speaker001:] and I work in academia before
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and um actually there's one um woman in our I don't know what you'd call it uh institute who is a manager and I mean in a sense perhaps um a lot of she gets protected a lot because uh it's almost like a token
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and and it's sort of unfortunate because I think that they don't accept her technically and but she's a good paper pusher
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and it's in a technical position really and you know she should be more technical for what she does
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and I think that's sort of unfortunate because it doesn't it doesn't really help the cause in the long run
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] um but um you know I don't know and and teaching I still see that that's where most of the women are
[speaker002:] in teaching
[speaker001:] in teaching and you know and it's always been that way
[speaker002:] but not at the college level
[speaker001:] right not well
[speaker002:] we live in a college town and I worked at the university for a while and there are there are woman there but they're not the high paid
[speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum not department chairmen
[speaker002:] professors that the men are
[speaker001:] yeah not the deans and things like that
[speaker002:] well they did have one woman dean but and I guess she she probably did very well but that's the minority
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum hum and do you think it's because women aren't qualified or or just don't or don't want the job or just aren't hired for the jobs
[speaker002:] none of the above I think they are extremely well qualified
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh I don't know how
[speaker001:] they're just not selected somehow
[speaker002:] I think they're not selected
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and course at this university uh this it's a big engineering school
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and I don't think there are many women in the engineering college
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and that's where the high pay is
[speaker001:] oh okay but I'm wondering how many women actually major in engineering actually but you know I say that but yet I know two
[speaker002:] quite an well I think there are more than there used to be
[speaker001:] yeah I'm sure there are yeah
[speaker002:] but they may not go into teaching
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah I mean the two that I know obviously are not in teaching but um
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] it's it I suppose in a since I was surprised when they told me they majored majored in engineering I don't know why I but I don't know that many men that have majored in engineering either
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] I mean it's just because I'm in the humanities it's just
[speaker002:] oh uh-huh
[speaker001:] you know it's not not something that I tend to hear about
[speaker002:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker001:] but um yeah it's uh
[speaker002:] well I met one one day that uh had just joined the faculty in agricultural engineering and that really surprised me
[speaker001:] oh that's interesting
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I mean I I suppose that that it's difficult to really say why because you know there there probably are a limited number of women who are interested in the subject and well qualified
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and maybe there aren't you know maybe they don't apply for the job
[speaker002:] I don't know I don't I don't know how many go on and get a PhD in engineering
[speaker001:] right right which could be you know partial partially cultural anyway
[speaker002:] that could be that's true
[speaker001:] so that it might be circularly being the same problem of of expecting not to get hired for the good jobs anyway so why spend your time getting qualified
[speaker002:] uh-huh that's right
[speaker001:] it's a it's a rough it's a rough a rough situation um and I guess what I what amazes amazes me is the number of men who are willing to stay home with the kids or and in our case we actually have one father who works part-time a six hour day so that he can take the kids
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] kids or kid I'm not sure to school in the morning and be home
[speaker002:] that's interesting
[speaker001:] when the children or child comes home in the afternoon
[speaker002:] is it uh was she the major wage earner I mean did she earn more money that he did or do you know
[speaker001:] th is is uh well see I don't know anything about the family but but yeah I would imagine she might um because he's you you know he's a really nice guy but he did say that because he was in the humanities and he's now working in more of a technical situation that he had trouble finding a job
[speaker002:] oh uh-huh
[speaker001:] so that maybe he you know maybe she was more qualified but still but still it's interesting that you know he he's been doing this evidently for a a good number of years
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and but it's unusual
[speaker002:] I I know one uh gal that's she's a CPA and her husband is a house husband
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah I
[speaker002:] and then they had a child and he he still was the house husband he's the one that was going to
[speaker001:] oh he was even before they had children
[speaker002:] uh-huh even before that right
[speaker001:] oh now that that really is
[speaker002:] she was a little perturbed about it at one time I don't know how she's moved away I don't know how it is now but I know uh
[speaker001:] oh she was uh-huh
[speaker002:] we're we all went out one evening and after work and uh she was there was an underlying note that she was perturbed about it
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah I mean I think that would be it would it would strike one as strange if there's no reason for
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] somebody to stay home that
[speaker002:] I don't think there was a valid reason because her statement was
[speaker001:] yeah that's true
[speaker002:] I told him let's face it you're a house husband that's what your going that's what you'll always be
[speaker001:] but but yet you know we have to think about that because if if she had opted to stay home we wouldn't have thought anything strange
[speaker002:] she wouldn't have been that's right uh-huh that's right it would
[speaker001:] so so we're carrying our own prejudice
[speaker002:] it wouldn't have been a downer uh-huh that's true
[speaker001:] yeah oh gee I guess we can't win
[speaker002:] huh-uh  oh
[speaker001:] because yeah if if somebody does it and breaks tradition you're surprised but
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] oh dear so so
[speaker002:] I think maybe more men would like to be if they weren't put down so badly
[speaker001:] if they could get away with it oh dear you know well I mean it it's an interesting topic yet I must say it's not one that I've given a great deal of of thought to but um
[speaker002:] huh-uh  no I don't
[speaker001:] in the past it's um one of those things that you know seems to happen
[speaker002:] how do you feel your career has gone
[speaker001:] I don't I don't feel for the most part that I've been discriminated against
[speaker002:] you don't that's good
[speaker001:] no I was a department chairman I don't but I don't like administration
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] so then I'm uh uh probably a poor example although you know I was an administrator and could still be I suppose
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh I was discriminated against very definitely in banking
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] it was terrible
[speaker001:] oh really you were you were more ambitious than they would let you be
[speaker002:] right and the money didn't go with the positions
[speaker001:] yeah yeah well I would
[speaker002:] the promotion promotions came but there were there wasn't comparable pay for the responsibility and I was told you don't need as much pay as I have because your children are older than my children or your husband has a good job and
[speaker001:] uh oh jeez yeah actually in a since I suppose when I was hired into the government um at I was taken advantage of and and that's true that you know sometimes other people get get higher increments
[speaker002:] I think uh-huh
[speaker001:] for you know even
[speaker002:] I think we are programmed to just take it as it comes
[speaker001:] right right that's probably true I hadn't I hadn't thought about it because I do like what I do and I just sort of ignore the administrative part of it since I didn't like it when when I had to do it
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] so I I figure you know nobody must uh nobody must like it it must be a rotten job for everybody but I know some people thrive on it
[speaker002:] oh gee
[speaker001:] well since I don't have a whole lot more to say on the topic
[speaker002:] I don't