[speaker001:] well I I been uh I've probably had more time than you have to think about this subject so I'll tell you is is it a serious problem yes I do believe it's a serious problem however there are solutions to it
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] and foremost uh where we compare we that we are now doing fifty percent of our uh people are voting uh we're probably making a comparison against uh some European and uh and uh uh say newer republics that uh that have very high percentages
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] uh so uh one of the reasons that that uh one one of the reasons that we could get uh one of the reasons that it is lower in the United States is that mostly we hold it on Tuesdays God knows why we hold it on Tuesdays and then we further complicate it by saying you know we'll keep the polls open until eight o'clock
[speaker002:] what right
[speaker001:] most people uh a great number of people now work at various at different jobs that if a third of the people are shift workers they won't be able to get to the to the polls in any case if they uh have to work late into the evening and not get up
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] my solution to that is that we hold it on Sundays as do probably sixty to seventy percent of the European countries now
[speaker002:] oh really they hold it on the weekends
[speaker001:] they hold it on the week no they hold it on a either a Saturday or a Sunday or at least a day when when uh a great number of people aren't working in in America that's not true because a a great number of people work on Sundays
[speaker002:] Sunday uh-huh huh well uh
[speaker001:] but but that's one of my solutions so
[speaker002:] I I know here in Dallas that they've just instituted in the last couple of years a um a real long period of time that you can absentee vote before the elections and they I don't think they've seen a really high improvement
[speaker001:] have you absentee voted in in in Texas well I have absentee voted in uh New Hampshire and it's a fairly fairly complicated process where you have to go pick up the ballot
[speaker002:] no no I always vote oh really
[speaker001:] I don't say it's that complicated but part of the process also is that you must register preregister at some particular point New Hampshire is fairly easy but other states you have to register every couple of years and uh
[speaker002:] hum to absentee vote specifically
[speaker001:] well to vote to vote to just vote so registrations are perhaps a a problem also and we're the mobile mobile society uh people are always mobile you know one out of every seven people moves every year
[speaker002:] oh um-hum
[speaker001:] uh that's almost a fourteen percent turnover every you know if you compound that that uh if it is difficult to register to vote that would remove your eligibility to vote
[speaker002:] um-hum but I don't think it's difficult enough to prevent people who are motivated in the first place who or who are not just motivated who really believe that their they
[speaker001:] well
[speaker002:] their voice is heard I mean and the people that I've talked to
[speaker001:] well maybe that's another factor the motivational factor the motivational factor is probably I
[speaker002:] right I think that is the biggest one that's the biggest problem I
[speaker001:] well that's diminished by we we've noticed this in particular I I'm just read two books one of them is Whose Stars and Stripes Now
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] the uh trivial pursuit of the presidency in nineteen eighty eight it's a fairly decent book I mean it's uh
[speaker002:] oh really hum
[speaker001:] it's preceded by uh several other books by these guys uh Wake Me Up When It's Over was about the eighty four elections and I forget what the other books were but any case uh it it it's uh uh the uh uh there was the Blue Smoke and Mirrors was the one in eighty two uh they these guys uh have taken the place of Theodore White on reporting elections in any case they say that uh there's a definite trend uh well you know toward candidates using negative voting it's the only way that you can use television effectively
[speaker002:] I don't understand that why do uh is that just because they have such a low opinion of the public and the public's um gullibility
[speaker001:] no the public would rather hear something negative about the other guy than uh than than a positive factor and you and you know to if you if you go on the attack and and put some sensational thing before the public as Mike Dukakis learned in the last campaign and it's not refuted people will you know uh believe it if you don't refute it as he didn't that that there must be some truth to the matter see
[speaker002:] well he did refute it he he refuted it just wasn't effective enough to
[speaker001:] well he didn't refute it until the last two weeks of the campaign he didn't believe anybody would believe that and indeed his trend started upward
[speaker002:] well that see I I didn't believe anybody would believe that either I I I guess I have I have a hard time coming to terms with the the fact that the American public really
[speaker001:] well they do
[speaker002:] was you know so
[speaker001:] well don't give too much credit to the American public for their motivational ability and and and it
[speaker002:] well then how can a democracy work then how how can it work
[speaker001:] well it uh well I don't know is it working I mean that's that's the question I guess the question also is that we discovered is that they don't throw rascals out everybody seems disappointed but they don't throw the rascal out their own rascal
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] uh my my solution to to part of this is is to to make it an economic economic incentive for people to vote that sounds rather crass I think because then then you're saying well uh
[speaker002:] what
[speaker001:] you know you it could be convoluted convoluted in many ways where people would actually uh by paying them I mean you know you take a certain amount off their income tax or property tax or whatever
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] but that it would be very difficult to administer because I'm sure that any time money and votes are involved it just the whole thing just stinks
[speaker002:] well how about how about the reverse of that when I've heard about England's elections they are allowed to run for what a total of six or eight weeks even for the higher offices in the in the land what if we totally took money out of the campaign made just severely limited the campaigns so money wasn't so much of an issue I feel like if if we did that people would have a lot higher confidence that their vote was counting rather than their contributions would count
[speaker001:] yeah but the idea is to get the individual to the polls and and and we have to make it as easy as possible for him to get to the polls
[speaker002:] I don't think I don't care how easy it is for them I don't think they're going to because they don't think that their that anybody listens to their vote they think whoever has the bucks they really think that the packs you know no matter what you're promised during a campaign and these days we're promised hardly anything of substance right
[speaker001:] oh you mean the special interest groups
[speaker002:] and uh and uh yeah no matter what a uh candidate promises during the campaign which isn't very much specific any that they don't promise anything specific these days but whatever you're promised they just they just reverse themselves depending on who pays them what once they get into office I mean I think that's the
[speaker001:] well read my lips and and and no new taxes and yet Bush did that but I mean but but he's excused from that generally people I've read polls now where they've excused him because there was a a definite necessity to balance the budget
[speaker002:] yeah yeah  well then why did he say that during his campaign then he should it was totally
[speaker001:] oh he he he gave it that he he did he did he promised the best he could and he's the president and he should he should address those problems and if there needs to be a change in a period of time why what was so funny about it is that I guess that it happened so rapidly you know he knew it he actually knew it and being associated with government he should be held up to the light for that and maybe he will
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well
[speaker001:] but I think it's uh I mean I think you you still have a view that the American voter is different from other voters and he's motivated because we happ en to be the cradle of liberty and all that I think voters are motivated uh
[speaker002:] what about what about voters in the other countries that you're talking about like in the European countries where they have higher turnouts and well the newer democracies because it's going to be totally different but
[speaker001:] well I don't know if they have higher turnouts overall I don't think England has I think England has about a seventy percent sixty five percent turn out
[speaker002:] you don't think so uh-huh
[speaker001:] I think that we just discovered in this in in the Indian elections is one of the greatest and massive things in the in the world
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] uh just it was got violent more violent every year they went down to almost fifty percent in this election before they blew up Gandhi but
[speaker002:] right oh really
[speaker001:] simply because people were so concerned about
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] their inability that to that their vote doesn't count anyway
[speaker002:] hum
[speaker001:] and the corruption of politics in in in that situation but then but you know everything is relative to when uh you know we had higher turnouts because at that time we talk about the turnout relative to the eligible voter right
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I mean is but but before these enormous before this Voting Rights Act what we had was a a great deal of our population uh mainly the Blacks in the South and the Hispanics were precluded by
[speaker002:] um-hum oh
[speaker001:] by uh voting laws uh from registering from their eligibility to register now everybody's available
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] so if you really computed it they probably when we said we had a seventy percent turnout in nineteen fifty we really only had a fifty percent turnout because all the eligible voters
[speaker002:] oh I see because right weren't qualified disqualified were disqualified
[speaker001:] you know the it was skewed by the eligible voters being less than the total population of
[speaker002:] but isn't that isn't that kind of a blanket racist kind of thing to say the Blacks and Hispanics and other minorities just don't vote or is that just the the truth
[speaker001:] no I think the high there's a higher percentage in in certain Black areas of voters I don't know about Hispanics you know
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I just I I mean I haven't studied the statistics well enough to I mean I think in this sort of a
[speaker002:] well
[speaker001:] conversation we can only do our own reactions
[speaker002:] right right but you know that just made me think of something that happened down here in Dallas last year they have this huge fight going over redistricting here and at one point they did they took another vote on it
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and they uh the minorities could not get enough of a vote out to to pass their plan and this is something that had been going on for months it was on the news every night they and they have had lawsuits over it I mean it was it was a major issue and there still wasn't enough minority vote to get to pass the plan that they were backing so that's you you know I think that you have really hit on something there to say that uh those
[speaker001:] what do you mean
[speaker002:] well with the minorities and we're saying we have low voter turnout maybe it is is uh now that we have minorities included in the
[speaker001:] you know Karen I wonder if we are recording
[speaker002:] why did you not press one
[speaker001:] I did press one but usually by this time they tell me that the time is up