[speaker001:] What's the, uh, in Texas law has a, uh, [pause] [breathing] what does it have, it has a death penalty doesn't it?
[speaker002:] Oh, yes, yeah. They just, uh, started it again, too just late, or, within the past few years [breathing]. You know for quite some time, just about every one of the states had given up the death penalty.
[speaker001:] But now it's coming back into favor.
[speaker002:] Uh, yes. Well, they find it is more deterrent.
[speaker001:] Well, my sociology class at S M U's taught us that it was not a deterrent. Uh, but now that's just what they said. Uh, I don't know maybe, maybe if I went back and took a sociology class now they'd say it is a deterrent.
[speaker002:] Well, uh, if you,
[speaker001:] Maybe they've changed their minds.
[speaker002:] You know, compare the figures, I think that's where they're, uh, they're coming from. The, uh,
[speaker001:] Maybe that's it. Maybe that's it, because that was back in the seventies.
[speaker002:] Oh, they're yes. They are. That was before the, uh, uh, they adopted the death law again [breathing]. But, uh, I, I myself am in favor of it, uh, particularly for, uh, {D well I think Texas has a good, good law. } Uh, crimes, murders related with, uh, drugs or killing a policemen.
[speaker001:] I think, I agree. But I think it ought to be expanded to include children. I, I think they're, they have they're working on, uh, something in Austin now,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I'm not sure what it is, I just remember seeing a, uh, kind of a synopsis of it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, why stop at children? Why not go to adults, too?
[speaker001:] Well, uh, I'm, I'm personally very in favor of it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, why should we let them set in prison and work on their college degrees after they've mowed down a class yard full of kids or t-, or tried to, or done their very, you know, given their best effort at doing that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yep.
[speaker001:] I, I don't care to support them.
[speaker002:] Well, I don't either but, uh, uh, but there is something to be said about [pause], or, uh, uh, j-, just for the sake of argument, I'm taking the,
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] a con, I'm, I'm against it. Uh, you know yourself how many times have you heard where, uh, uh, a citizen was wrongfully arrested,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh [breathing].
[speaker002:] and served time at a penitentiary, uh, just recently this, uh, black man served nine years was it,
[speaker001:] And then,
[speaker002:] for robbery.
[speaker001:] there was the black woman that, uh, robbed and shot the furrier. And she was set free, too, just in two examples in Texas recently.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] [Ringing] But she actually killed the furrier. Or someone, she was charged with murder [ringing] and then, then they decided it was a case of mistaken identity or something. I didn't, I don't, [ringing] I didn't retain all those facts very well. But I know what you're, what if we make a mistake.
[speaker002:] That's it.
[speaker001:] And that's not one of those things that you can turn the wheel back and reverse everything.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, right now our laws are so liberal that, uh, even with the death penalty in effect, I don't think that, uh, [lipsmack] they're going to use it, uh, too frequently, uh, unfortunately. I, like you, say yes let's have it,
[speaker001:] Well,
[speaker002:] put them all, give them all a shot, get rid of them. Why should they be sit-, sitting in, uh, prison getting their college degree.
[speaker001:] Well, I guess, though, where I would have a problem with it if I were on the jury that, that, put, that handed down the death sentence because it was my judgement the person's guilty.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Now that's tougher. It's easier to say it on the telephone and everyone agree that, yeah, the death penalty's the way to go, it's a deterrent to crime, they shouldn't catch themselves in that circumstance anyway. But to be the actual one of the ones that decide, that would be tougher for me.
[speaker002:] Yes, very true. I, uh, I agree with you there. Uh, *slash error
[speaker001:] I think I'd probably do it but we could never say what we would do if we're not in the circumstance. It, that's, that's, that's a real easy thing to say that, oh, sure I would, but I don't know [NOISE].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, I myself wouldn't want to be on the jury like that. Uh, I, it, it's, uh, that's an awful lot to, uh, to expect of a person, to, uh, to kill somebody is what it amounts to.
[speaker001:] Well, yes, but, you know, that's what they did.
[speaker002:] It, true. Very true. But they, they did it because they have a warped mind for some reason.
[speaker001:] Or rather than have a warped mind it was just the only way to get whatever they wanted.
[speaker002:] Yeah well, uh, *slash error
[speaker001:] And they, they wanted something worse than they, more than they respect the human life.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [pause]. Yeah, exactly. Well, anyhow I guess we both agree that,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] that it is,
[speaker001:] Hang them.
[speaker002:] it should be in effect.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I agree it should be in effect. Also I agree there should be a lot of care in the enforcement, uh, so I guess I would say I want it to be in effect but I want [pause], maybe well, I'd, I, now I have a problem with this, too. I think our courts have too many opportunities for them to go back and get one more chance.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's true. Well now any, uh, just believe in just about any state in the union, uh, uh, a death, uh, or, uh, yeah, death verdict is an automatic, uh, appeal.
[speaker001:] That's correct. It is, [NOISE] it is.
[speaker002:] And, uh, uh, yes, I'm inclined to agree with you. I think so, there should be a limit as to the number of appeals.
[speaker001:] Now, there's some, and maybe, now, [ringing] I don't remember if this is Texas or not, that has something about all drug dealers can be sentenced to the death sentence.
[speaker002:] Um, um, well, n-,
[speaker001:] Convicted drug dealers.
[speaker002:] Not just for dealing in drugs. It, uh,
[speaker001:] Is it, what is, what's the ru-,
[speaker002:] There are certain circumstances, and I don't remember what they are.
[speaker001:] It's something of the dis-, they're on the distribution end.
[speaker002:] Uh, yes.
[speaker001:] They're not selling them, they're distributing them. It's for the large dealers is what,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it's reserved for. And they, they are in effect killing people.
[speaker002:] Oh, oh, yes, yes. I, I believe it's any capital crime related to drugs.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay.
[speaker002:] I think that's the way it's worded.
[speaker001:] Is that how it's worded? I knew it was there but, I, I, or p-, or is it proposed or is it passed?
[speaker002:] I do believe that's in. Uh, I wouldn't swear to it myself.
[speaker001:] I believe it is,
[speaker002:] But I thought it, I thought it was in effect.
[speaker001:] I believe you're right, though. I think it is. And I have to agree with that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I, I think it certainly should be one of the options. Uh, I've been fortunate with my children and grandchildren, so far that I know. I qualify that heavily,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] because you never know, [breathing] but to the best of my knowledge we haven't had a major problem yet.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But it just touches so many young people. *slash error
[speaker002:] Oh, it does. Uh, I have four sons myself [breathing], and the youngest is twenty-eight,
[speaker001:] Um. *slash error
[speaker002:] so they are all pretty well grown up and they all went through it, you know, going through high school and everything [breathing] and knock wood that, uh, they have not, well I won't say they didn't try it, uh, I wouldn't know, but, uh, they, I doubt very much that they're, they're using it now. In fact I'm sure they don't.
[speaker001:] Well, my children are about in the same age bracket. I think, let's see, the oldest is thirty-two and the youngest is probably twenty-seven, twenty-eight.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] So, it's the same age bracket.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] And there's four, two girls and two boys. And I think one of each experimented very slightly with pot,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and I think that was the extent of it to the best of my knowledge.
[speaker002:] Yeah. That's usually the way it is. It, it's just, uh, try it out with their peers [breathing]. And none of them even smoke. They don't, uh, they never, strangely enough, uh, their mother and I both smoked when they were growing up. Now, my, my, my wife, my ex-wife, she quit, uh, [breathing] well, when she was pregnant with the last one and she never started up again. And I just quit, oh, about fourteen months and two weeks ago.
[speaker001:] Boy, that's tough.
[speaker002:] Yes, it is. I, and it seems to be getting tougher as time goes by.
[speaker001:] My husband hasn't quit, yet. And he knows he has to and he knows he should and he knows and he knows,
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] but he hasn't. I do respect the fact, though, that he refuses to smoke in the same room with me. He, he's very conscious of, of passive smoking and he's concerned about it but,
[speaker002:] Well,
[speaker001:] hasn't quite made it yet [breathing].
[speaker002:] Well, when I was still smoking, I, I felt that way. If I was in a public restaurant, seated at table with, uh, non smokers I would try to pick a s-, a, a my, seat where the smoke would blow away from them. Or I'd hold the cigarette under the table.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I've seen all of this, yeah [breathing].
[speaker002:] And, uh, but, uh, now I'm on, the shoe's on the other foot [breathing]. Uh, I'm aware of other people smoking now.
[speaker001:] Well, Charles will actually, Charles will not smoke in anyone else's house except our own.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] He will get up and he'll go outside, you know, and he, he's so, when we're invited to people's house, he will not smoke in their house. Which I think is good because there's a lot of people that are very,
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] particularly if they have children.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, and he's, you know, he tries his best, but the actual quitting he hasn't done. He changed brands to a brand he doesn't like. He put up all of his ash trays. He will not smoke in a comfortable position, you know, but
[speaker002:] Uh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] still [LAUGHTER], he's done everything the Smokers Anonymous tell you to do except quit smoking [LAUGHTER]. It's a,
[speaker002:] Well, the,
[speaker001:] long process.
[speaker002:] there's a trick I use. They used to leave my cigarettes in the glove compartment.
[speaker001:] Oh, how neat.
[speaker002:] And every time I wanted one I have to go outside and just take one. One at a time. And, uh, that, that 's, gets to be, uh, a deterrent.
[speaker001:] He has his in the kitchen,