[speaker001:] you wanna go first
[speaker002:] no you can start
[speaker001:] okay um one of the things they talked about was uh did we did what do what do we think about a judge making the decision and I really don't agree with that
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I think that the trial by jury is better uh you know than even having a unanimous decision rather than to have one person be responsible I don't think that they could be objective in every case every time
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you you know what I mean
[speaker002:] right there's there this this this topic is kind of moot um there there's no way we we couldn't survive in a system in a in a juror system in a trial system without a jury um
[speaker001:] yeah right
[speaker002:] one man can never be one man one woman can never be objectionable in every case
[speaker001:] that's it
[speaker002:] um every person has their opinions and that's why jury selection is often very difficult um
[speaker001:] well I I feel the other thing too uh they were saying uh you know what new ways could you could it you you know change the system I I really think that um we spend a lot of time uh going through appeal after appeal after appeal after appeal I mean if if you go to a trial by jury and especially if a person has confessed if they have been caught you know point blank in the crime there's uh no question it's beyond a reasonable doubt
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you all these things I mean you know we've gone through this uh over and over again
[speaker002:] right they shouldn't allow an appeal
[speaker001:] and it can go on for ten twenty years I I think this is a little ridiculous
[speaker002:] yep um-hum
[speaker001:] I think the only people who benefit from that are the lawyers
[speaker002:] no that's right I work for a law firm I ought I
[speaker001:] I I'm serious and I think that the lawyers have caused a lot of the problems that happen that exist in the in the criminal system today with plea bargaining
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you know if someone is
[speaker002:] well plea bargaining plea bargaining is a different story
[speaker001:] well
[speaker002:] plea bargaining is something completely different that that actually prevents trials or or at least speeds them up
[speaker001:] well I know that's that's what I'm saying but I think a lot of all of the whole criminal system is messed up in in that regard I mean you know people who commit uh crimes that they I don't know how it works exactly but you know they get lesser sentences and I understand that the jails are full of people you know uh
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] and that they have to do something but I think that the reason they are full is because they know that they can get away with it
[speaker002:] hum
[speaker001:] you you know what I'm saying that we we don't have um well a lot of states don't have capital punishment
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and um
[speaker002:] we do
[speaker001:] I I think they should I and I think if a person is guilty of taking someone's life and like you say it's it's there's no doubt whatsoever like drunk drivers that kill people and um you know all they they're caught dead to rights I I just think that that's they've they've taken a life and if they should pay for it with their life
[speaker002:] right right when you're saying as as far as the appeal um procedure is concerned we just have the case I'm I'm sure you've probably heard of Marion Berry
[speaker001:] yeah uh-huh
[speaker002:] um his final his last appeal was was denied two days before his sentence was up
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] so I mean his appeal was denied and two days later he got out of jail
[speaker001:] it uh
[speaker002:] for cocaine possession but um
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] that was absurd there was no there was no reason the appeal process should have dragged on that long for a six month sentence
[speaker001:] I know that the uh-huh and I don't know uh what what would you do to change it to make it better
[speaker002:] well uh the the only thing I can I was you know the the appeal procedure is the only thing I can possibly think of um I like I said as far as removing of the jury and having the judge sentence that's absurd there's no way that could work
[speaker001:] oh yeah I I I don't agree with that at all
[speaker002:] um but
[speaker001:] imagine the guilt that person would have I mean it burned out is there's no possible way that you could um you know feel good about yourself if you had to do something like that day after day
[speaker002:] oh exactly exactly right no one would want the job
[speaker001:] no really not really
[speaker002:] um  and you know like I said the you know everyone has their opinions about every case
[speaker001:] well would do you think people should have a trial if they're caught dead to rights like
[speaker002:] oh yeah I I feel that everyone is everyone is um entitled to a trial by jury that that that right should
[speaker001:] I mean supposing I come up to you and I just point blank kill you
[speaker002:] well I mean were there witnesses
[speaker001:] in other words you're saying that we you have to find out whether it's premeditated or what the circumstances were
[speaker002:] right right that you can't you can't remove the jury regardless of the case I mean you could have fifty people in audience watching a murder take place and you you'd still there's still mitigating circumstances
[speaker001:] yeah yeah well it's I I feel