[speaker001:] so Utah
[speaker002:] yes  that that's that's the state that got was famous when they executed somebody Gary Gilmore by firing squad as I recall
[speaker001:] Gary Gilmore yeah that's right and we still have a death penalty
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] some a gentleman uh that was one of the hi-fi murderers just had his conviction overturned well appealed again I guess we have the longest uh running inmates for death row too
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and then we had another guy uh Ronald Lafferty that thought God told him to kill his sister-in-law
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] he just got a a new trial because the judge felt that he was incompetent
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh how do you feel about the death penalty
[speaker002:] well I you you know until recently I've been sort of could go either way you know it it sort of doesn't much you know didn't it wasn't a strong issue um I guess it still isn't a strong issue but I must say I find it very silly the way politicians are running around creating more and more capital crimes um instead of dealing with real you know the real problems they're you know they're they're they're getting votes presumably by
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] um I assume they're doing it for that reason
[speaker001:] well I'm sure sure that's their
[speaker002:] by by by saying well this doing this this particular crime in this particular way is a capital crime now
[speaker001:] well I kind of agree agree with terrorism I think those guys should be done away with that's one of the worst crimes in my book and uh drug dealing hm that's close but uh terrorism definitely and uh selling out your country
[speaker002:] um-hum it it's not it's not enough just to lock them up forever
[speaker001:] uh no it's got to be something that is gonna cost them because we never lock anybody up forever
[speaker002:] um not often
[speaker001:] not very often at all we've got these guys in New York that uh I'm sure you heard about the ones that killed ah the gentleman that came from Utah to watch the tennis people
[speaker002:] yep yep
[speaker001:] and I guess they got convicted the four of
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh uh murder
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so you've come to a definite opinion on it now
[speaker002:] well I I've uh it it it it seems like it's gone gotten carried away um and I I do find it hard to draw know where to draw a line and so if I had to draw a line I'd say just no capital punishment I mean I don't I don't see I don't see that it accomplishes a whole lot whereas I do think that convicting people and and incarcerating them for a long time if that could be improved upon that would have more impact I think
[speaker001:] yeah you kind of hate to
[speaker002:] no what what about the argument where where somebody who is committing one capital crime chooses to commit a a more serious capital crime I mean murder um because that one at least you might escape from because his victim you know his witnesses will be gone doesn't this doesn't this encourage
[speaker001:] you mean uh violence
[speaker002:] uh more serious doesn't doesn't this encourage you know I mean doesn't this encourage murder in order to wipe out the
[speaker001:] the witnesses
[speaker002:] the witnesses
[speaker001:] well maybe it would uh I kind of have a problem with our legal system at the moment uh as it is I think that people who uh infringe on other people's rights uh and screw up their whole lives with rape uh child molesting uh terrorism just a there's just like five things that I think they ought to be snuffed for but I'm I'm for it for certain reasons
[speaker002:] yeah um-hum
[speaker001:] and I think that things like rape uh you can't get over uh takes a lifetime
[speaker002:] I see so so if if William Kennedy Smith had been found guilty you believe he should have been uh executed
[speaker001:] um if it was
[speaker002:] a six person jury could've decided either way of course
[speaker001:] yeah if it was it'd probably have to be a pattern you know we have plenty of convicted guys that go into jail and come back out do the same thing and go back and uh if they're habitual like three times caught for rape or child molesting then snuff them
[speaker002:] um-hum well but there the problems that they just been let out of jail
[speaker001:] good pardon
[speaker002:] the problem there is that they've been let out jail if they've been thrice convicted they should have been kept in longer
[speaker001:] yeah but we don't seem to keep them long enough and then they learn such bad things in jail that isn't a place of rehabilitation
[speaker002:] yeah well yeah that's that's for sure
[speaker001:] yeah it's a tough question isn't it on whether at what point do they become so detrimental to society that society can't afford to keep them around to keep giving them chances
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah
[speaker001:] hm let's see so the other questions that they wanted was whether the place that we live in uh compares to how we feel what's the laws there in DC
[speaker002:] I actually don't