[speaker001:] So, Utah.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] That, that's, that's the state that got, was famous when they [NOISE] executed somebody.
[speaker002:] Gary Gilmore.
[speaker001:] Gary Gilmore.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] By firing squad, as I recall.
[speaker002:] That's right, and we still have a death penalty.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [NOISE].
[speaker002:] Some, a gentleman, uh, that was one of the hi-fi murderers just had his conviction overturned, well, appealed again. I guess we have the longest, uh, running inmates for death row too.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And then we had another guy, uh, Ronald Lafferty, that thought God told him to kill his sister-in-law.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] He just got a, a new trial because,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] the judge felt that he was incompetent.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, how do you feel about the death penalty?
[speaker001:] [Lipsmack] Well, I, yo-, you know, until recently I've been sort of, could go either way, you know, it, it, sort of doesn't much, you know, it didn't, it wasn't a strong issue, um, I guess it still isn't a strong issue. But I must say, I find it very silly, the way politicians are running around [breathing] creating more and more capital crimes, um [clanking]
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] instead of dealing with re-, you know, the real problems that, you know, [clanking] that they're, they're getting votes presumably by, um, I assume they're doing it for that reason [NOISE].
[speaker002:] Well, I'm sure that's.
[speaker001:] By, by by saying well, this, doing th-, [NOISE] this particular crime in this particular way is a capital crime now.
[speaker002:] Well, I kind of a-, agree with terrorism. I think those guys should be done away with. That's one of the worst,
[speaker001:] [Dishes].
[speaker002:] crimes in my book and, uh, drug dealing, um,
[speaker001:] [Dishes].
[speaker002:] that's close but, uh,
[speaker001:] [Dishes].
[speaker002:] terrorism definitely. And
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, selling out your country.
[speaker001:] It's not, it's not enough just to lock them up forever.
[speaker002:] Uh, no, it's got to be something that is going to cost them, because we never lock anybody up forever.
[speaker001:] [Noise] Not often.
[speaker002:] Not very often at all. We've got these guys in New York that, uh, I'm sure you heard about, the ones that killed, uh, the gentleman that came from Utah to watch the tennis
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] people.
[speaker001:] Yeah [NOISE].
[speaker002:] And I guess they got convicted, the four, of
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, murder.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] So you've come to a definite opinion on it now?
[speaker001:] Well, I, I've [static] it, it seems like it's gone, gotten carried away, um, and I, I do find it hard to dr-, know where to draw a line, and so if I had to draw a line, I'd say just no capital punishment. I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't see that it accomplishes a whole lot, [breathing] whereas I do think that convicting people and, and incarcerating them for a long time, if that could be improved upon, that would have more impact, I think.
[speaker002:] Yeah. You kind of hate to,
[speaker001:] No, wh-, what about the argument where, where somebody who is committing one capital crime chooses to commit a, a more serious capital crime? I mean, murder, um, because that one at least, you might escape from because his victim, you know, his witnesses will be gone [NOISE]. Doesn't this, doesn't this encourage,
[speaker002:] You mean
[speaker001:] Uh,
[speaker002:] uh, violence?
[speaker001:] More. Doesn't this, yeah, I mean, doesn't this encourage murder, in order to wipe out the
[speaker002:] The witnesses?
[speaker001:] the witnesses?
[speaker002:] Well, maybe it would. Uh, I kind of have a problem with our legal system at the moment, uh, as it is. I think that people who, uh, infringe on other people's rights, uh, and screw up their whole lives with rape, uh, child molesting, uh, terrorism, just uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] There's just like five things that I think they ought to be snuffed for, but I'm, I'm for it for certain reasons.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I think that things like rape, uh, you can't get over, uh, it takes a lifetime.
[speaker001:] I see, so, so if, if William Kennedy Smith had been found guilty, you believe he should have been, uh, executed?
[speaker002:] Uh, if it was,
[speaker001:] A six person jury could have decided either way, of course [NOISE].
[speaker002:] Yeah. If it was, it would probably have to be a pattern. You know, we have plenty of convicted guys that go into jail and come back out, do the same thing and go back, and, uh, if they're habitual, like three times caught for rape or child molesting
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] then snuff them.
[speaker001:] Well, the problem is that they've just been let out of jail.
[speaker002:] Pardon?
[speaker001:] The problem there is that they've been let out jail. If they've been thrice convicted, they should have been kept in longer.
[speaker002:] Yeah, but we don't seem to keep them long enough, and then they learn such bad things in jail. That isn't
[speaker001:] Yeah, well.
[speaker002:] a place of rehabilitation.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's, that's for sure.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's a tough question, isn't it, on whether, at what point do they become so detrimental to society that society can't afford to keep them around to
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] keep giving them chances.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, let's see, so the other question that they wanted was whether the place that we live in, uh, compares to how we feel [faint]. What's the laws there in D C?