[speaker001:] the basic question is too much and I don't know my my opinion I guess here in North Carolina they announced that May second was the uh tax day that's when you everything you've earned so far has gone to taxes the rest of the year is yours that represents about a third of your income and I don't know uh who came up with that figure but I think it really comes out to be more than the third but uh I I don't know I find myself in a position sort of like selective approval almost like the United Way campaign where you agree with most of the agencies but uh don't agree with some of them and I think that we could have less tax by cutting out some of the the uh programs that we support but overall I guess we're pretty fortunate nature nation as far as the amount of tax that we have to pay how do you feel
[speaker002:] well I I've lived overseas you know it's with in the Army and I see what kind of taxes they pay in other countries
[speaker001:] yeah I've done some business overseas in in Latin America and of course know about the we hear about Sweden with their uh social program but you don't hear what the cost is same in Europe in Britain and other nations much higher tax rates but the
[speaker002:] it just seems as if from the time I've been following politics which was I guess about seventy five really got interested in politics and keeping up with it it just seems since that time the bureaucratic machine has just gotten so out of control
[speaker001:] oh yes
[speaker002:] and then they scream about that that or the uh politicians scream about they're going to try and not raise taxes but they vote in a raise for themselves every year
[speaker001:] oh yes that that's the uh the type of thing that really irritates me where they can get significant increases when everyone else is facing layoffs or or cutbacks or uh equating it to a personal income situation and yet it's almost automatic or it's hidden and uh I think they need to bite the same bullet that most individuals do the one of the other problems that I have recently is centered on such things as the trip by Dan Quayle to Augusta Georgia to play golf and I realize that constant communication is necessary especially when Bush had his heart rhythm problem this weekend but we can always send jets for someone I think if if they're out of pocket rather than accepting it as the norm for a nice golfing trip so that's what I meant about the selectives some things I think we're doing extremely wrong could save a lot of money but other things uh like I enjoy seeing money spent on the Smithsonian Institute in Washington I think it's one of the nicest national treasures and I love to see kids of uh any background roaming through and seeing such great collections but then when when we talk about all the foreign aid that we give away that bothers me a lot I don't know how to solve the problem though when as you said the uh bureaucracy gets out of hand regardless of who you vote for the bureaucracy continues too
[speaker002:] I I have trouble understanding the entire concept of foreign I understand going into countries where they've had natural disasters and going in and giving relief aid that way
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but paying for their these countries to run their own governments
[speaker001:] oh I think it's way
[speaker002:] I I've got a big hang-up with that
[speaker001:] it's way out of hand I'm almost turning into an isolationist which is not not a good attitude in in global uh communications and everything that we have this these days but it's a matter of uh I hate to see money thrown away and that's what I really I equate to some of our foreign aid policies
[speaker002:] it just seems like they keep saying we're helping this country or we're helping that country out
[speaker001:] and they
[speaker002:] wouldn't our money be better spent helping here at at home
[speaker001:] I agree I think that's I have some problem with social programs at home in terms of making it too convenient to be on on welfare
[speaker002:] that's something I would and that subject in itself I'd love to see that entire thing revised
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah I I think when you get to a point where it's more economical to stay on welfare than it is to get a job you've got a basic concept problem
[speaker002:] something's got to change
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know and turn drastically
[speaker001:] but I I think uh if we're going to waste money I'd almost see rather see us waste it at home than overseas too and that there's some unusual things which can occur in the foreign aid uh by a stroke of a pen I think our president can forgive foreign debt and that's a lot of power vested in one one person in our system of uh governance and I've seen that happen over the last few years and you and I are paying for it but Jim it comes back a lot to the same thing that you said initially you've been overseas and have seen other places and I guess we're still fortunate but I think we're just I just want us to be smarter than we are
[speaker002:] well we've got it's not like this country doesn't have the people with the knowledge we've got it
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] we've got people that are willing to make change but as long as you've got career politicians that spend twenty five to forty five years in Washington playing power broker they're not going to do anything to tap tap out the well
[speaker001:] yeah well your your neighbor to the north Oklahoma just voted for state legislators uh one term no let's see I forget was it one term or two term fixed uh incumbency in other words they can't be reelected reelected after I think maybe the second term
[speaker002:] now that's something I would love to see happen not only in all the states but in the federal legislatures too
[speaker001:] federal yeah
[speaker002:] two terms then they got to sit out one
[speaker001:] yeah I think it takes away the issue of of a lot of the uh special lobbyist groups and everything else creating the incumbent uh about invincibility invincibility but there's another problem with that I'd we've got some good ones and I hate to see them leave but it I guess it's hard to to really uh identify which are the good and which are the bad the electorate seems to be putting them all back in and I thought this last election would be different but it it turned out it really wasn't
[speaker002:] and I think the thing about the ones that are really up there doing what they were elected to do it doesn't matter if they're in that office or not if they have to sit out a term fine they're going to be able to do things behind the scenes either in the capacity of the lobbyist or in working within their party of of the state or national level to get things enacted
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] that's not going to slow them down at all
[speaker001:] uh it doesn't solve the non elected bureaucrats bureaucrats either that's that's an issue I think that really fits into it because there are a lot of people that sit in the same position and really don't give a hoot who gets elected they still kind of run the show and and setup all the roadblocks and the the uh horrendous regulations and everything else but it's uh it's our system I think now we have to figure out how to really manage it well
[speaker002:] I think compared to the other systems that are out there without a doubt we've got probably the best system it just needs some fine tuning
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh I think that's right well
[speaker002:] well the quest ion is who who's ready to put their hand on the first wrench and tighten the first bolt
[speaker001:] yeah How do you feel about the information we get uh from Congress that that affects us as far as the uh knowledge to to elect the right people I have I have a real problem federal register for instance uh you can have almost put anything in there you want to no it's not in the federal register what's the uh the congressional record uh someone can put in information retroactively to that to show that they supported something or uh
[speaker002:] trying to get the um politicians to actually truthfully report what they did vote for what they didn't vote for when they were actually on the floor at their desk is almost is going to be impossible to do
[speaker001:] yeah it
[speaker002:] there is no accountability of them
[speaker001:] and
[speaker002:] at any given time if you've been to Washington