[speaker001:] okay I don't think I've ever met anybody that thought they were paying too little taxes
[speaker002:] I haven't either I know I pay too much but
[speaker001:] so so I assume that we're going to agree that we all pay too much taxes
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but then the question is are we getting what we pay for and and I think we don't
[speaker002:] well I I agree I agree
[speaker001:] I think we pay far too much for bureaucrats and pork barrel projects
[speaker002:] right absolutely I fortunately we don't have state income tax I know you guys do and
[speaker001:] right well I lived in Texas for a long time so I was really hit hard by the nine percent California tacked on to the government's
[speaker002:] and it's heading that way though  oh gosh well I think in within the next few years we're going to have it here they're trying
[speaker001:] yeah I know Texas uh just raised their sales tax again because uh I was visiting in Houston over Christmas with my mother and uh uh I went bought a few things and I think your sales tax is higher than ours now
[speaker002:] yes I know we're just taxed uh-huh probably is I'm telling and I pay enough in I pay income tax that some people make and it really just tears me up I can't believe how much I pay but and for for what I don't know what I get for that
[speaker001:] yeah well I really do believe that there are huge quantities of money wasted on unnecessary unnecessary uh bureaucracy and on just flat stupid things
[speaker002:] I do too I do too I know there are
[speaker001:] we have we have uh hundreds of thousands of dollars going to uh people to supervise people who supervise people who supervise people and when it all comes out they don't do much supervising anyway
[speaker002:] yes you know and I know it or uh uh who cares about the sex life of a tsetse fly and why do we have to have you know
[speaker001:] well actually as a matter of fact that sort of research I think is worth spending some money on because the uh basic research really is what's made our country uh get to where it is in its ability to compete
[speaker002:] right and I don't mind spending on on defense either uh that doesn't bother me at all course I work in a defense project company so naturally I'm for it but
[speaker001:] no well I you I don't mind spending on defense for things that work but I mind having people uh uh people spend money to create five thousand pages of documentation to order something
[speaker002:] yes right right and you know those companies that that say they you know the
[speaker001:] this is crazy
[speaker002:] uh seven hundred dollar six thousand dollar toilet seat in reality it probably really does cost that because of all the paper work the government requires that you have to go through to make that toilet seat to sell it to them it probably does cost six thousand dollars
[speaker001:] yeah exactly yeah I think the six hundred dollar toilet seat is probably a legitimate expenditure given what the government requires of the manufacturer the manufacturer's probably not making very much profit on that
[speaker002:] yeah right uh no and no no
[speaker001:] but the probably five hundred dollars of that toilet seat is going to uh ridiculous kinds of of paper work and supervision
[speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum um-hum I know absolutely
[speaker001:] um are are you familiar with the Grace Commission
[speaker002:] no what is it
[speaker001:] well I don't remember exactly when when that started but it was back in the early eighties I think uh Peter Grace of WJ Grace and Company was uh appointed by I believe Reagan to um
[speaker002:] uh
[speaker001:] create a commission to investigate government purchasing and expenditures and see if there wasn't a way to save money
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and he came uh he and his group of course he didn't do it but he got people to do it came up with a a whole book's worth of recommendations for making the government run more like a business and he said that you know the the kinds of things the government does even in renting space would drive a business bankrupt
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh people purchase things because of the rules that require them to buy certain kinds of things in certain ways
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] that are totally irrational they buy more than they need or less than they need or many times as much as they need in little quantities when they ought to be able to um
[speaker002:] yep
[speaker001:] you know deal like a business and uh get things in quantity that will uh you give them a discount
[speaker002:] um-hum right
[speaker001:] they ought to pay their bills on time one thing the government does is is stretch out the payments so that they end up paying penalties for things that the government could have paid for the minute it was due and taken the five percent uh credit for early payment
[speaker002:] right right I know that
[speaker001:] anyway there was this whole book that came out and I read some excerpts from it and every single thing they recommended was so eminently eminently sensible and and
[speaker002:] I know they just
[speaker001:] it just astonishes me that we have not put more of that into practice
[speaker002:] I know it I know it just mind boggles your mind when you think think and it's it's scary to think that these guys are up there running running our government that that approve of all this stuff
[speaker001:] and everytime right and everytime the uh Congress changes and people move offices they redecorate the whole office they spend half a million dollars on the Speaker of the House to renovate an office that had been
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] redone less than three years earlier
[speaker002:] I know it isn't that sick isn't that that's our tax dollars
[speaker001:] and then they come up with these crazy projects to do things like spend seven hundred thousand dollars to make Lawrence Welk's birth place a shrine I mean I do not need a national park around Lawrence Welk's birth place
[speaker002:] I don't either
[speaker001:] and I can think of a whole lot better things to do with seven hundred thousand dollars
[speaker002:] I know it but you know what can you do there's really I don't even I really don't what know what we can do about it uh the ways to other than
[speaker001:] well I don't think it does much good but I write my Congressman all the time I've got a congressman who is very concerned about uh uh irrational expenses and who is a real fiscal conservative
[speaker002:] responsible um-hum um-hum that's good
[speaker001:] and and so one of the things I do is donate money to his campaigns and uh write to him when I see things that outrage me
[speaker002:] uh-huh well t hat's good
[speaker001:] and uh I don't know that it's going to help any but if he got uh if if a lot of Congressmen get that kind of input from their constituents maybe they'll do a little something
[speaker002:] um-hum something be done maybe yeah that's a key is maybe I know I uh I
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] donate to work we have uh a thing to you can donate but of course what we're donating our uh political party that we're dono donating is whoever is is for the defense department you know of course our defense budget that's who our money our money goes to we really don't have any say so
[speaker001:] yeah well I'm in favor of spending money on a strong defense but not of wasting it and some of the things that we do uh like have
[speaker002:] I wouldn't either
[speaker001:] three different kinds of incompatible computer equipment for the three services it's just dumb
[speaker002:] yes yes that's dumb
[speaker001:] there's no reason why we shouldn't have somebody take a look at uh all of the things that the various services use and make them interchangeable
[speaker002:] absolutely I just what's wrong with that I
[speaker001:] then the same spare parts can be used in in uh Air Force planes and Navy planes maybe
[speaker002:] that's right yeah yes I know
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] I can't understand but I know our company my property tax goes up all the time I'm right at DFW airport so we're we
[speaker001:] oh yeah
[speaker002:] we should be getting a tax break because we get all the town I live in gets all of the uh revenue from DFW because it's in our city limits but
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] it doesn't all it's they're just building these great big fancy homes and uh uh taxes are just going up and up but course my property the value of my home's going up too so that doesn't hurt that's always good
[speaker001:] um well that's good but that's that's small comfort because it doesn't bring you any income until you sell it
[speaker002:] that's true you got that right
[speaker001:] now we don't have uh property taxes going up as much as you all do because we had proposition thirteen that says uh once you have had your house appraised then they can only raise the taxes
[speaker002:] you got enough's enough
[speaker001:] I believe it's two percent or maybe it's three percent a year uh until you sell and then it's reevaluated
[speaker002:] that's great oh okay well that's a good idea
[speaker001:] uh and that's that helps people on fixed incomes and older people who have houses that have gone up in value a lot but who don't want to move out of them
[speaker002:] sure yeah I keep reading where they say in in in Los Angeles area where the the property thing is just going to bust one of these days you know or and San Francisco too I think the prices prices of real estate is so high
[speaker001:] well the prices are so high I don't see how they can keep going up
[speaker002:] no I don't and they say that it's going to come you know a lot of companies are moving out of California because they can't afford people can't afford to live there to work there so they're moving I know Silicon Valley they say is just
[speaker001:] yeah well I'm in Silicon Valley and they uh the the reason that the prices have gone up so high is that there just isn't anymore land left to build on most of the
[speaker002:] oh are you oh
[speaker001:] surrounding land is all uh in preserves of one sort or other and it can't be developed so there's very little property that hasn't already been built on
[speaker002:] oh okay um-hum oh okay
[speaker001:] and one of the problems our city is having is that uh with all of the environmental requirements and the antidevelopment people taking over the city council we've driven out some corporations which were paying a lot of our taxes
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah oh okay
[speaker001:] and so now they're going to have to assess us because they we've driven out the businesses that were paying the freight
[speaker002:] yeah now that's a shame
[speaker001:] yeah for instance we have the Stamford Shopping Center which was uh paying oh I think it was about a quarter of our
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh city budget because of the sales taxes that were collected there and in this recession a lot of those businesses have had poorer receipts and so their sales taxes have dropped and we're about a million dollars below budget
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] primarily because of the sales tax drop off and that uh and also Hewlett Packard was uh headquartered headquartered here and so everything that they sold the sales taxes uh were paid
[speaker002:] oh okay um-hum