[speaker002:] well Kathleen do you believe that there is a problem with our public school system
[speaker001:] I certainly do I think
[speaker002:] and what do you think that problem is
[speaker001:] I think we have a lousy school system and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we don't train our teachers very well and then we put the schools in the hands of professional educators instead of the teachers and the parents and then oh we don't uh we put too much uh responsibility on the teachers for things that are really not education they're social services
[speaker002:] hm that seems like you've thought this through quite a bit before
[speaker001:] well I as a matter of fact I just finished editing a book on the topic so I have some rather strong opinions
[speaker002:] that's interesting do you uh yourself
[speaker001:] and and I'm sure they're colored by what I've edited
[speaker002:] do you self have children with who are or have been through the public school system
[speaker001:] yes I do and I was not very happy with the results
[speaker002:] I see so if you were to improve it what would you do to improve it
[speaker001:] well I think I would start with uh about with getting rid of about two thirds of the administrators
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and all the auxiliary personnel the school bureaucracy that exists mainly to perpetuate itself
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and then I would provide uh use the money that we've been paying them to uh provide some special help in training and particularly uh mentor teachers
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] to work with the beginning teachers and the teachers who may have been at it a long time but have been making the same mistakes for a long time
[speaker002:] sure sure
[speaker001:] and then let them try some innovative things and see what works and then uh have some sort of mechanism for passing that knowledge along to other teachers who could benefit from the same sorts of things
[speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum
[speaker001:] and then from the parents side have the parents support the school get involved pay attention to what's happening talk to the teachers uh talk to their kids about school and support the institution and a instead of becoming adversaries to the teachers so that the uh the teacher's in the middle
[speaker002:] um-hum that's uh some pretty good ideas why don't you do something with those
[speaker001:] well I've done about all I can do which is get the manuscript in good shape so that it can be published and read by a lot of people
[speaker002:] uh-huh well you should uh run for a school board position
[speaker001:] oh well that I'm not so sure about I've got a lot of things to keep me busy
[speaker002:] uh-huh that's
[speaker001:] have you done anything like that anything political
[speaker002:] well my mother was on the school board
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] as we were coming up and uh that basically is the extent to which our our family has been directly you know they've always been involved my parents through the the PTA organization and my mother was on the school board for eight years
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but uh that was that's the extent of which I guess that's more than than some people less than others
[speaker001:] that's more than a lot
[speaker002:] I would uh tend to agree with you that there is a problem the methods of correcting it I haven't thought through it quite to the detail which you have but I believe that there's definitely a basic perception and image problem with the fact of even being a teacher
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and if there was a way to through the public mind set that image to be a little higher esteem a little uh uh a little more prestige to being a teacher and with that of course you know you have to pay them a accordingly if we paid them more it would attract more the the higher educated people to to either move into that field or to continue in that field
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and then if you paid them more you'd also be able to demand a higher quality product out of them
[speaker001:] I think that's absolutely right they the thing that worries me about that is that if you just raise salaries across the board you're going to be uh rewarding people who've been doing a lousy job and instead of getting the uh improvement that we want so we'd have to have some way to
[speaker002:] sure sure
[speaker001:] uh reward and recognize the teachers who are doing a good job and give them uh a pat on the back and respect and some honor and more money
[speaker002:] it unfortunately it's a and it's a business or an occupation that the results are not as tangible
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah it's hard to tell
[speaker002:] as other ones so it's very it's very difficult to say that this teacher is doing a better job than this other one other than I guess how you know how a person scores in the beginning before the class and then after the class you know if there's some gauge that they could make
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] uh also I've always I've thought around about the idea of making teaching and the before you can get a certificate you have a a certain residency period so much like a doctor maybe not the four years definitely but some certain type of of position where you're overseen to begin with
[speaker001:] yeah now that's a very good suggestion
[speaker002:] uh just something to I rather than throw someone in into that environment uh you know it
[speaker001:] yeah I don't think
[speaker002:] I thought that maybe something
[speaker001:] student I don't think student teaching is enough I think that at least what I used to observe in student teaching was that
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] some college kid who might not be all that bright to begin with was thrown into a classroom with a teacher who was harried and overworked and uh had too many kids to handle and too many things to do and too many interruptions
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] to pay much attention to the student teacher and then the student teacher didn't stay but about six weeks
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so there really was no time to try much of anything and get significant feedback that would help the the student teacher improve very much
[speaker002:] sure
[speaker001:] there are lots of things that could be done in that line including things like videotaping because it wouldn't be hard
[speaker002:] sure
[speaker001:] with all the electronic equipment that's around these days to videotape uh either a master teacher teaching a class so that then students could watch that and uh criticize the methods used and and analyze it figure out what worked and what didn't work
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and then also to videotape the student teachers so they could correct their own performance
[speaker002:] sure sure that's good as a a a teaching aid but more you see these commercials that have Jimmy walking into class late and it happens that the teacher is an instructor who is in New York while Jimmy's in Rome and you know the whole electronic classroom idea
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] I don't know if I I'm in favor yeah in favor of yeah I think especially in the younger years you need to have more of the the person contact rather than just the fact that your machine being fed information to to learn how to learn
[speaker001:] I don't think that's going to work yeah well another thing I think would be helpful would be to have some sort of uh say a national curriculum because one of the problems with getting good textbooks is that we have such a fragmented system for uh curriculums that the textbook makers produce a textbook that will sell in Texas and California and then everybody else is stuck with that regardless of what they want to teach
[speaker002:] huh is that because that's where the two biggest markets are or
[speaker001:] because it well that's the two states that adopt on a statewide basis
[speaker002:] I see
[speaker001:] uh and so it uh I used to work for a textbook publisher and it was absolutely clear that if you could get your book adopted by Texas then you had a built-in market because there were only about three or four textbooks in each subject and all you had to do is just get your share of those adopted in the individual school districts
[speaker002:] um-hum hum
[speaker001:] and you know a third of the Texas market with its millions of kids is a heck of a lot of textbooks
[speaker002:] sure sure
[speaker001:] and then the states that either don't adopt on a statewide basis or don't have as many kids just have to follow along and take what Texas gets
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] like with California is the biggest for elementary schools but Texas uh adopts statewide all the way through the twelfth grade
[speaker002:] I see well definitely is a a national problem if they need to address
[speaker001:] yep sure is
[speaker002:] definitely is
[speaker001:] and I hope maybe we're going to get somewhere with a little more attention being paid to it with uh Reagan's uh new education secretary and uh you know trying to do some uh trying to produce some new programs anyway
[speaker002:] right right well I've enjoyed speaking with you
[speaker001:] excuse me I have got to go I've got another line calling thanks bye
[speaker002:] all righty good-bye