[speaker001:] well what do you think about it
[speaker002:] well um most of the stuff up until now in the recent months I I I don't have any problem with
[speaker001:] no I don't either
[speaker002:] uh I mean it's you know it
[speaker001:] I don't think it's going to change very much but
[speaker002:] no I agree with that as as far as the as far as the mess that's developing as a result um you know uh as a country the United States uh I think our hands are tied as far as as as any further involvement until the UN sanctions it in fact it really was to begin with
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah
[speaker002:] and uh I just I heard a comment on the radio this morning that uh you know it it gets to a point where uh if enough people are are going to be slaughtered over there over the the the internal problems um somebody may step in again but uh I really think it's it's a UN issue
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] at that point because it is internal
[speaker001:] well you know the funny thing I find about American opinion is that when we have gone in to destabilize a government before the American public goes crazy
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and now the fact that we're not interfering with the internal rebellion in in Iraq they're going crazy you know I mean you can't please them one way or the other
[speaker002:] that's right that's right that's absolutely right
[speaker001:] you know and I and I think that I I agree with you this is exactly the right course I mean that's an internal problem to Iraq it has nothing to do with us
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and until he starts doing something so inhumane that the UN gets involved then it's nobody's business
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] um
[speaker002:] I mean these these types of internal things go on all over the world all the time some of them have been going on for for tens of years if if I understand it right in places like the Sudan and
[speaker001:] all the time I mean yeah I mean yeah yeah and it's certainly and it's certainly been going on over there for hundreds of years and it's going to continue as long as you have so many diverse groups that are that are vying for power it's going to happen all the time
[speaker002:] yeah that's right yeah that's absolutely right
[speaker001:] I mean the Kurds have tried it before they've gotten their butts kicked and this is just another time that it's happening
[speaker002:] yeah that's that's absolutely right
[speaker001:] you know and they'll regroup out in the mountains and they'll try it again in a couple of years
[speaker002:] yeah it was just you know it was it's a very opportune moment for them to try you know you
[speaker001:] sure and and and I don't have any doubt that through some back channels that we encouraged it
[speaker002:] oh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] you know but I I'm not real sure that we promised them anything
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I that would have been stupid and I don't and I don't think we did it everything else we handled in this seemed to be perfectly right I don't think they would have done that
[speaker002:] yeah I agree
[speaker001:] but it just it it really doesn't make any difference this is just a chapter a another chapter in Middle Eastern history
[speaker002:] yeah and you know and it there are many of them there's no doubt about it
[speaker001:] oh sure I mean the the British occupied the place the French occupied it we've done it ah it it's happened so many times this is this is really nothing special uh
[speaker002:] um-hum well and and and so many of the so many of the conflicts um really don't have a basis in in uh politics or or human rights or anything like that it
[speaker001:] that's right it's all it's mostly religious anyway
[speaker002:] it's it's religious based and uh you know by by self-proclamation this is a holy war and it is right and then uh we we go on from there
[speaker001:] yeah yeah exactly
[speaker002:] yeah it it's it's a mess it it's there's no doubt about it and uh
[speaker001:] well I I I think one of the big problems I mean looking at it from the American the American public's standpoints they don't understand the Middle Easterners
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] they don't understand what I mean their politics really isn't politics it's religion couched as politics
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] and there's a big difference
[speaker002:] absolutely
[speaker001:] you know uh we sit there and and we think that they think the way we think
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and that's a big mistake because they don't
[speaker002:] you bet you bet well yeah because there's no uh you know there there's there's a complete different set of values um there's there's different value placed on human life and uh right down the list you know possessions and and everything else and uh
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah yeah
[speaker002:] what's right is wrong and what's wrong is right in some cases and it's
[speaker001:] that's that's that's it a lot of the time I I was stationed in in Turkey for for a year and a half
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] and it it was tough understanding understanding those folks
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] you know uh they uh they're uh they're so completely different culturally and socially and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and religiously it's just it was very strange it was very interesting
[speaker002:] I believe it yeah yeah I can I can I can believe that yeah I I don't claim to have an in-depth understanding by any means but uh
[speaker001:] now I shoot I I think some of these people that they claim as Middle Eastern experts don't don't have a clue sometimes
[speaker002:] that's probably true
[speaker001:] you know they they sit there and and read their books and then proclaim themselves an expert well I'm not real sure that's that's appropriate
[speaker002:] uh-huh no no that's that's uh a a little bit of background study has never made an expert in any field
[speaker001:] no
[speaker002:] but uh
[speaker001:] well I sort that sort of goes to my pet peeve about the education system in this country too
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and we make experts by reading books you know
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] and the Japanese and the Germans and everybody else make experts by doing
[speaker002:] uh-huh absolutely
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] absolutely
[speaker001:] yeah I uh I I guess you work for TI yeah
[speaker002:] that's right yes
[speaker001:] so you guys are well aware of the problems with the Japanese markets and everything else
[speaker002:] right right that's an everyday occurrence
[speaker001:] yeah it's it's like our car industry the only reason our car industry hasn't gone down the tubes is because the Japanese you know came into it and helped us out
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum I agree yeah it's it's uh there there is there is it's an overall problem in in in this country understanding uh foreign cultures or even accepting them
[speaker001:] um um-hum
[speaker002:] and uh it it it bites us over and over again the the
[speaker001:] yeah and until we until we start changing our educational system I mean we're we're going to be we're we've already been overtaken but it's going to get even worse later I mean looks who's looks who's getting the engineering degrees and the the math and the science and everything it's not us
[speaker002:] um-hum that's right that's right
[speaker001:] you know we we've got folks running around here who get who get degrees in basket weaving and
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know underwater psychology or some some ridiculous stuff like that
[speaker002:] absolutely
[speaker001:] and and where are the engineers coming from
[speaker002:] uh well they're they're coming from various places and a lot of them are going back there
[speaker001:] yeah exactly
[speaker002:] that's
[speaker001:] my uh my roommate is a uh he's getting his doctorate in industrial well it's not industrial engineering it's human factors his degree was in uh you know industrial engineering
[speaker002:] okay I see
[speaker001:] um and he's from the Philippines
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and the only reason he came here was because the education is much so much better for those who will go after it
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] he has no intention of going back to the Philippines because there's no jobs
[speaker002:] sure okay
[speaker001:] you know uh but I I see it all too often I mean we've got loads of foreign students
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and they're coming here going after the hard degrees and then they're going back to Korea and Japan and Hong Kong and everywhere else and they're applying it there
[speaker002:] absolutely that's right
[speaker001:] and  I don't know it's to me it's amazing I don't know what we're going to do as a country we're we're going to become dependent on these other folks sooner or later
[speaker002:] yeah because you know every every the the country's got a problem with uh with quarterly reports and annual statements and things like that and the long long range views are are just kind of become a thing of the past
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah you
[speaker002:] and uh
[speaker001:] I don't I don't think there can be anymore long range planning I think it it's it's sticking your finger in the holes and the dike
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know uh oh here's a crisis well let's plug it up
[speaker002:] yeah yeah
[speaker001:] I don't know I don't know what the answer is it's far beyond me
[speaker002:] yeah that's for sure that's that's the way things have gotten
[speaker001:] yeah all we can do is keep plugging
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] you know I I wonder I I read in the paper just last week IBM's unveiling their new laptop computer
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] well at a price tag of six thousand bucks I don't know if they're going to have a whole lot of takers
[speaker002:] no absolutely
[speaker001:] because uh now I have the I I have the IBM PS two
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] but I'm sorry I got it
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] it's slow it's uh there are many better machines on the market right now for
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] a the only reason I got it is because I got it through an educational purchase plan through the school and I saved forty eight percent so I said yeah if I can have an IBM for forty eight percent discount I'll take it
[speaker002:] okay  okay um-hum absolutely
[speaker001:] but up to that point I had never I had always said I would never have one because I wouldn't pay that kind of money for their name
[speaker002:] that's right
[speaker001:] but
[speaker002:] that's absolutely right yeah
[speaker001:] now you watch just sure as anything the Japanese are going to come out with a laptop at half the price with more stuff on it
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah the the unfortunately the way the the way the high tech market goes by the time you can get get something in your hands um it it's it's obsolete and uh
[speaker001:] um-hum it's already outdated yeah
[speaker002:] we're we we fight that that battle every day here at work uh
[speaker001:] yeah yeah I I can imagine I uh years ago I remember when I had a TI ninety nine
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] put all the money into the expansion box and all this that and the other and uh things just kept changing so much and I kept getting rid of them and I finally said well you can't do this you've got to buy something and stick with it so I
[speaker002:] that's right that's right
[speaker001:] so I just at an opportune time I got one that that suited my needs and I've just stuck with it the only thing I've done to it is just add a uh add a mouse and a hard drive
[speaker002:] okay yeah
[speaker001:] and that's all I plan to do of course I'm limited on memory now because I've got the low line I got the model twenty five
[speaker002:] oh okay
[speaker001:] so I'm stuck with six forty but I'm not a power user so it doesn't matter
[speaker002:] yeah well that that's that's the key you know whatever whatever works for you and uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] if it does the job then that's that's what you need
[speaker001:] yeah now my roomie on the other hand he is a power user he's he's looking now to get rid of his he's got a three eighty six and wants to get a four eighty six you know this kind of stuff
[speaker002:] uh-huh