[speaker001:] [Breathing] I guess I don-, don't really have a problem with capital punishment. I'm not really sure what [breathing] the exact, uh, specifications are for Texas. I know that they, uh, have capital punishment for certain crimes, and that's probably the way I feel about it is, [breathing] is, uh, it kind of depends on the crime that's committed. My belief all my life, I guess, has been that, [breathing] that if you take someone else's life, then you automatically are giving up, [breathing] uh, yours in place of it [breathing]. But I don't, seems to be a lot of controversy about that [breathing].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] Uh, uh, I tend to agree with you, uh, you know, probably pretty similar views on it, but that's, [breathing] that's one of the things I don't, don't understand is, is so much of the controversy because, uh, you know, I, I do also, myself, believe in capital punishment, uh, [breathing] uh, you know, it, it really irks me to see so much effort put into preventing someone being put to death by the State when they [breathing] so callously and usually so, you know, without even thinking or without any concern, uh, you know, end somebody else's life, and in a lot of cases several people's lives.
[speaker001:] [Breathing] That's true [breathing]. I guess, [lipsmack] well, there's, there's probably two or three different types of, of views as far as the controversy goes. I can see where [breathing] if a life was taken by accident or, uh, [lipsmack] I don't know what you'd call it, not premeditated or, I guess primarily by accident, [breathing], uh, there may be cases where the death penalty is not called for, [breathing] but I lean towards,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] if it's premeditated or if it's, uh, [breathing] kind of a habitual or, or a habit that, uh, a tendency that people, uh, may get into, then I guess I don't really have a problem with it [breathing].
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's, that's kind of the way I feel. If, if you've got a guy who's, [breathing] who's been to trial and has been in and out of jail, you know, basically a, a three time loser for the twelfth time, you know, and he goes out and kills somebody, he's not going to be reformed, he's not going to get any better, you know, it's, it's not going to, [breathing] it's just not going to get any better. And, and the only thing, [breathing] you know, a lot of people have the opinion that, you know, don't, don't have capital punishment, but give them life in jail and, you know, I could go along with that, if, if I could be assured that it would be their natural life in jail and not parole after ten,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] or twelve years.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think that's what aggravates a lot of people, is somebody does get a life sentence in place of the death penalty, and they wind up [breathing] back on the streets after five years or six years or like the kid on the news tonight out in Mesquite who was out in six months. [Breathing].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, it's, it's just [breathing] our criminal system is just so, [breathing] I guess, overloaded, but the, you know, the, the problem is not [breathing] so much with the prison system, you know, I mean, because the, the cops are out there doing their job enforcing the laws, and the prison system are just, you know, they're trying to cope with them, but [breathing], you know, the thing about capital punishment i-, I, you know, a lot of people don't think it would be a deterrent, uh, to, to future crime, and the way it is now, it's not.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] Because, you know, you, [breathing] if like the State of Texas, for example, may, uh, you know, may execute somebody twice a year. You know, that's, that's no kind of deterrent because we, we've got literally hundreds of people on death row, and, and many of them who have been there for literally for ten or fifteen years
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] on death row, and that's, that's certainly no kind of deterrent, and I would tend to agree with anybody who says right now that it, it's not a terrent, a deterrent, because it's not.
[speaker001:] No, it's not. You think of your chances of getting the death penalty after cre-, uh, committing a crime [breathing] are really pretty slim right now. And you can,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] probably spend, [breathing] uh, a lot of time, uh, or maybe eventually, [breathing] uh, just waiting it out,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and that's where a lot of aggravation comes, I think, is, is, uh, these guys spend so much time [breathing] in the appeal process or just in the waiting process,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] they may spend years, [breathing] and, you know, the last I heard it was costing ten, twenty, thirty thousand dollars a year, [breathing] uh,
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] to keep these guys waiting.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it, it's amazing. There's, uh, there's a girl I work with, our secretary, as a matter of fact, her, her father was murdered, her father and three other guys up here in Sherman. And the, uh, the guy, that they tried and convicted and sentenced him to death, you know, he's been on death row for like eight years.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, you know, this, this was her father, uh, you know, that, that got killed, you know, just cold-blooded murder, him and three other people, and, but still, [breathing] for some reason, [breathing] you know, this, this guy's sentence has not been carried out, you know, he's sitting on death row for eight years after having killed four people, and the State still can't bring itself to, to ex-, execute,
[speaker001:] To, yeah, to carry it out.
[speaker002:] this guy.
[speaker001:] It sort of takes the justice out of the justice system.
[speaker002:] It does, it really does, you know. She, and they have to go back, uh, occasionally, you know, she has to write letters to the parole board and, you know, lawyers, and just, just ever so often she mentions, well, she's got to do something else, you know, write another letter,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] or do something. It's just,
[speaker001:] It should be over and done with.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, you know, she should be getting on with her life, you know, getting, getting that part behind her, but yet, it's, it's kind of tied to her the way it is now.
[speaker001:] Yeah, it is. And she winds up being a, a victim,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] day after day after day.
[speaker002:] Yeah, right. A victim, not only of, [breathing] indirectly of the crime, but also indirectly by that,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] indirect involvement. It's just, it's,
[speaker001:] She,
[speaker002:] it's ridiculous.
[speaker001:] She's an emotional victim [breathing].
[speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah, it, it's terrible, you know and,
[speaker001:] And, you know, the, like you say, the cops that are out doing the work [breathing],
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] day by day have got to have a lot of frustration when they see all their work,
[speaker002:] Oh, that,
[speaker001:] basically go out the window.
[speaker002:] oh, man, I, I couldn't be a cop for that, for that very reason, you know, because they do. The, the criminal gets right back out and, you know, the cop's just got to go back and, and do his thing all over again, because so many of the crimes are, are done by repeat offenders.
[speaker001:] Yes, they are.
[speaker002:] It's,
[speaker001:] [Breathing] Well, that's about five minutes, so
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] unless you've got something else, well,
[speaker002:] No [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] It's a pleasure talking with you.
[speaker002:] All right, Ron, we'll see you later.
[speaker001:] Okeydoke, good-bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.