[speaker001:] [static] Well, we're just starting a family through adoption so I don't really have a lot of, uh, concrete, uh, opinions. Just what I know out of my peer group, uh, has gone through. And none of it has been good [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, the ones that can afford to have live-in nannies,
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] They seem to be having an okay time.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, but a lot of the other ones that have, are professional, uh, I'd say fifty percent of, you know, my peers that I'm, in my circle of friends have tried it and then stopped working until they're, you know, going to get their children in kindergarten or first grade.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, but I, there must be some good service out there if you
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] really look and pay for it.
[speaker002:] What, what age child are you thinking in terms of?
[speaker001:] In terms of what they're talking about.
[speaker002:] No. For, for yourselves [static].
[speaker001:] Oh. Infant. Uh...
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] Infant.
[speaker002:] So you're starting from the b-, [LAUGHTER] from the baseline.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. After eleven years of marriage. Yeah, we are. We're actually, it's happening now. So, we're just going through the process.
[speaker002:] I see [bird squawk].
[speaker001:] So an-, and actually the question is, uh, very appropriate. Cause I'm not sure whether, uh, how strong the maternal instinct is going to be. They tell me it's going to be strong [LAUGHTER]. Do you
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] have children?
[speaker002:] I have one son.
[speaker001:] And did you put him in daycare or is he older now or younger or?
[speaker002:] Well, he's, he's now eighteen. And in, in, you know, has completed a couple of years of university.
[speaker001:] Sure. So he's out of daycare [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I, right. And, and so that, but I was working full-time, uh
[speaker001:] You, uh-huh.
[speaker002:] when he was born. But I was very lucky because I was a, a college professor.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] And so I was able to, you know, and I, it was
[speaker001:] Flex.
[speaker002:] walking distance from, from
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] my apartment. So I went up there and I sort of left him with, with a neighbor.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I left him in a carry cot when he was very little [NOISE]. And I said, you know, he doesn't need anything except, you know, look at him if he cries. But, you know, don't pick him up and, and
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] this sort of stuff. Because I was gone only an hour at a stretch or an hour and a half.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's wonderful.
[speaker002:] And I was able to, you know, get, his schedule just, uh, cooperated.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And...
[speaker001:] That's wonderful. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, and I guess, uh, th-, because of your, um, your, uh, profession. I mean, I, uh, I'm in corporate communications. But I've done free-lance writing in the past,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so what we're hoping is that, uh, I mean my husband thinks I can do it. I've just never worked out of a domestic base, you know. I've always
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] been in a corporate, uh, environment. Uh, but I'm hoping that possibly I can do something where I can go flextime or part-time or if they don't have that, uh, my boss, I'm very lucky though, again too, my boss is very akin to family building. So, I think that's som-, th-, something that couples need in going
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] into this.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't know. I do think there's good daycare out there. What part of the country are you in?
[speaker002:] I'm in Maryland.
[speaker001:] You're in Maryland.
[speaker002:] But, but I was out of the country when, uh, my, my son was little. But, but the thing is, if you have this flextime and that, you might be able to do something similar to what I did.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Which is
[speaker001:] That's what I'm hoping.
[speaker002:] you know, be there short times and then later on when he was, you know
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean this, we're talking about, uh, I went back to work and, or taught some, some classes like a week after he was born.
[speaker001:] Oh, my goodness. You were
[speaker002:] And so...
[speaker001:] fortunate. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And so that's when I was
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] saying, you know, don't, don't pick him up and stuff. But then later what I did was I brought a woman into the house.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Sure.
[speaker002:] And she, she was supposed to help me a little bit with cooking and doing the baby's laundry and this sort of stuff.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And then, I also came home and sort of was able to see from a distance what she was doing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, you know, in a sense she, she carried him around a lot, too much. Uh, you know
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for, for my taste.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] It was constantly, no, I don't want him,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] to explore anything. He might, uh, he might hurt himself [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So do you think that, I mean, do you think that that was in a way though, good ob-, good objectivity that, that doesn't really, that's not a correct English but, you know
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] in a sense, you see what I'm saying though. From a mother's standpoint, I mean in a way, i-, it was quote and unquote good ob-, objectivity.
[speaker002:] I think it worked out very, very well. Because what he learned to do by the time he was
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] two or so, he would sit next to the desk where I was grading papers or
[speaker001:] See.
[speaker002:] writing lesson plans.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And he had asked for a paper and, you know, sort of scribble and then he realized that there
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] were quiet times and there were active times.
[speaker001:] Right. And then he learned he, he also learned that, uh, there were times that you had to be gone, so you probably minimized, well we're actually, uh, we're getting ready. I mean, you're far enough away now I can tell you [LAUGHTER] since this is locally, I make sure, we're going to Romania in a few weeks.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] And that's, uh, just.
[speaker002:] Did you say Romania
[speaker001:] R-,
[speaker002:] or Armenia?
[speaker001:] Romania.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] As in, like, what Twenty Twenty and, uh, but we, we're real excited because we've just developed a contact.
[speaker002:] Oh, good.
[speaker001:] Through professional people and it's private and it's hospital. It's, we're just very excited [LAUGHTER]. Uh...
[speaker002:] Oh great.
[speaker001:] And w-, i-, i-, what's the word I'm looking for. When you deal with issues like that, uh, in terms of family building through adoption, uh, and then you have people responding to you, well if you go through that why would you put them in daycare.
[speaker002:] Oh that's silly.
[speaker001:] Uh, issues are being raised prematurely in my mind. But I guess they're not because it's something I'll have to deal with sooner than later. Uh, and I, what I've learned to do is just tune out everybody's opinion. I feel that if the child is healthy, uh, and as long as we make it feel secure, I'd love to do something like with what you did.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, I don't think I could be dumper where I could take it from, you know, eight in the morning till nine at night or six at night and leave it there.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh, maybe after two or three or, y-, years old. I don't know. Um.
[speaker002:] Oh, I [LAUGHTER], in my opinion, it's even than. I mean
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] your kids need you [bird squawk].
[speaker001:] Well, they need a schedule I think. I don't think the United States, what country were you, uh, in Europe when you were uh, uh?
[speaker002:] No, I was in the Middle East.
[speaker001:] Uh, that's [LAUGHTER]. Well, that's the same thing. I mean I don't know how they are there but, uh, in eastern Europe, my stepfather's from England, it just seems the United States does not provide for either child care or geriat-, or elder care, as I call it.
[speaker002:] Right, right.
[speaker001:] Uh, and we're just not set up for that. Uh, with the.
[speaker002:] I, yeah.
[speaker001:] Go ahead.
[speaker002:] No, I was just going to say, I guess, uh, my sensitivities are, are much more with the, you know, to be at home. Because actually, I had
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] my grandmother with me from the time she was from the time she was ninety-two until she died at ninety-seven.
[speaker001:] See, I think that's wonderful.
[speaker002:] And, I mean, that was recently after my son, [LAUGHTER] was going off. And I mean, yes, in a sense, I went to work and she was at home alone some of the time. But, but still, you know, it was much better than being shipped to
[speaker001:] To.
[speaker002:] a daycare center.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] You know, which is much my [LAUGHTER] feelings on kids and the elderly. I think we're t-, we're too, too much towards it's somebody
[speaker001:] We cast off.
[speaker002:] problem, you know.
[speaker001:] Right, right. Th-, I'm that way. Yeah.
[speaker002:] I want to work. Shove them in, in some school for twelve hours a day.
[speaker001:] Right. It's easier and I agree with that. That's why I
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] y-, you know, what is amazing to me is now your son is already grown but you can probably empathize with this. It's amazing to me how forthcoming people are with their opinions and thoughts [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Right, right.
[speaker001:] In terms of what to do. Uh, and I just don't think there is a day, a good daycare system. Uh, my company, I'm particularly fortunate that they have, they're in tune with that. But I've been at companies where, uh, you know, the, deci-, the, the trend is, or the definite mood is, well we made conscious decisions not to have children.
[speaker002:] And that's sad.
[speaker001:] You know. And in, and a couple like us building through adoption, there, it's almost radical to some people.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And what you just learn to do is tune everybody else out and, uh, I respect, there are some women that I know that are divorced or on their own or in single parenting and men that they, you know, they may have the need for child care like that.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But I agree with you, that it's just, I call it dumping [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I, I...
[speaker002:] No, I, I think that certainly there is a role, uh, for this type of help.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, and as long as one can, can supervise it and, and, you know, make it work in, into one's own schedule without it seeming like dumping or
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or, or, uh, giving it, you know, the whole job to somebody else to take care of.
[speaker001:] Then, yeah, it's ar-,
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] in tandem then.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah [NOISE].
[speaker001:] I just, uh, and there are trade-offs too I think. One of the things that is a problem is that, uh, in terms of compensation to some of the child care providers.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, it's just, you know, it's so low but yet the overall cost for somebody doing it on a daily or even a weekly basis, it's prohibitive. And some people that are not making more than twenty thousand a year
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] uh...
[speaker002:] Actually, there seems to be an alternative in my neighborhood. Is
[speaker001:] Really.
[speaker002:] there seem, there are several, u-, u-, m-, mothers who stay home.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And they take, you know, it's probably not completely legal [NOISE]. Uh, I, maybe it's legal up to one or two additional kids.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] But, and they, they take care of another child and I, I can actually n-, could name five or six people around my neighborhood that really do a good job on this.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. And they, yeah.
[speaker002:] [swallowing] And I mean that's another possibility and, you know, you might want to stay home one year and some other lady might want to stay home for a, a few years and...
[speaker001:] I haven't thought about that. Yeah. And actually my neighbor has an eighteen month old and she's at home part-time paralegal. So I'm thinking, um [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] And we get along fantastically so I'm thinking, you know. And that's the way you have to, uh, how wa-, I'm just real curious. How was the Middle East in terms of that with children? Is that, is child care or that type of idea completely foreign to them?
[speaker002:] No. Well, actually there was a daycare center, uh, where my son did go for a year. I think from when he was two to three.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But then he actually started kindergarten at age three.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And so, and i-, you know, it wasn't like prekindergarten, it was real kindergarten.
[speaker001:] Oh, really. He must be smart. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah. So he, he was ready to, to go to school at that point.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, yeah, they're, they do have such facilities. But for the most part, uh, th-, with the extended family, you know, you can usually find somebody. Which is much like our neighbor
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, to, sharing responsibility. And I'm, and also there aren't that many women who, who d-, who work.
[speaker001:] The professional. Yeah, I was wondering about that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, there, I'm in Dallas and there was just a very big, uh, series about Moslem women and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] there were enlightening things that broke some of my stereotypical thoughts. I'm digressing here but, uh, I was just real curious when you said Middle East, if you
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] didn't mind me asking.
[speaker002:] No, no. And I didn't mean Israel. So you, you assumed right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, no that's okay [LAUGHTER]. Well, even if you did, that's okay actually. I think...
[speaker002:] Well, no because at first thought, when I s-, you know, I said that not many people work, I'm, I'm thinking oh, well she's going to, you know, because certainly in Israel the women do work [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Right. Right. They fight, they work.