[speaker001:] I have, uh, I, well, I used to have the opinion that there wa-, that there really was not any more crime in America, in the cities, anyway, than there was in previous centuries, uh, before, uh, simply because. The reason there seems to be so much was the fact that the police now had advanced, uh, reporting methods, with computers and other devices.
[speaker002:] Compile more statistics.
[speaker001:] That's right, and those statistics [throat clearing] in turn got them bigger budgets.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] However, I have been persuaded, lately, I guess, simply by the, uh, overwhelming data that seems to be available that there is indeed a lot more violent crime.
[speaker002:] More especially where you are. Are you,
[speaker001:] Well, yeah.
[speaker002:] in Washington D C or Washington state?
[speaker001:] No, I am in, I am in Washington D C.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, I was going to say,
[speaker001:] Actually it, you know, I do a lot of business here, and I come here quite often and, and that again is a, is a sort of media perception there's some absolutely lovely and marvelous and peaceful areas in Washington.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Regardless of the racial makeup, but it's, it's real, uh, there's pockets of violence that is so violent that they, uh,
[speaker002:] It just really grabs your attention.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It just makes the whole place seem like that.
[speaker001:] Right. Now just to focus on that a minute, I guess, uh, uh, when, uh, [sigh] previous secretary of, uh, educa-, Bennett, I think his name was,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] became the drug czar, uh, for, uh, President Bush, he was going to focus on it, on this area and do something about it and I see that even he was met without, with, with little success, even though the entire, I guess a, a quite a bit of money and other, uh, planning efforts went into that.
[speaker002:] What do you, what do you think is causing all this,
[speaker001:] Well,
[speaker002:] because, it seems that there even though crime, though I think it is increasing in number, it sure does seem to be increasing in intensity,
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] and violence too.
[speaker001:] Well, I, I have three theories about it, you know, three things. I have one theory, and it's brought to us by two things. One I, I believe that this is a function of, uh, the violence that young people see on television and the movies.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, I am not just talking about, you know, uh, role models of gu-, of tough guys and gangsters and things like that, I am not even, I am not even convinced that maybe things like football, hockey and, th-, th-, the, you know, the, and even baseball games now where the, everything is settled with a fight. You know, the, the immediate need to [inhaling] show some sort of violence to settle th-,
[speaker002:] [Breathing]. *slash error
[speaker001:] the argument. And, and then I, I am an advocate of hand gun control to some degree, so I think that particularly I, I was reading the other day about, uh, Corpus Christi, Texas which has the the highest, I think it's Corpus Christi, that had the highest rates per hand gun death in America
[speaker002:] Um. *slash error should be 'b'
[speaker001:] uh, per capita.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I was, I have not seen that, but, uh,
[speaker001:] I mean the Saturday night special stuff so,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [Inhaling] That, that's what I think about it, that's some of the things I think about it, plus [sounds like drop out] I do not know, what are your views?
[speaker002:] Well, yeah, I tend to agree with you with, you know, it seems anymore, uh, a movie can not be considered good unless there's just some, some sort of violence,
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] or something in it. And, and along with that, you know, and then you start making a movie and [inhaling] it has no, there's no call for something violent, but, so they just throw something in there just to say they have it [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Exac-, well that's, that's, that's the impression I get, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And I, and I imagine that it's, you know, it just feeds upon itself when we have this sort of violence in society, people want to, it conditions people to it and, uh, you have to amp-, it has to be even, uh, magnified to to attract people's attention. I guess,
[speaker002:] Yeah, you become callous.
[speaker001:] to have them spend money on something like that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And I am sure that it does form role models for young, for young men and young women and,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] uh, I mean I, I, read now where we are, you know, women are arr-, young women are arrested fighting with knives over, over whatever.
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] whatever reason, which is kind of unheard of when I was young. Now, I do not want to sound like an old fart, but,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] that's what seems that those things happened befor-, did not happen in that manner before television.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And I, I, I, I have to think that, that it has some influence on it. But,
[speaker002:] I listened to a radio talk show today at lunch time
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] uh, Rush Lynn Bottom *sp: Limbaugh I do not know if you listen to him or not,
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] he's on A M, but, ther-, there's a fellow that had called in and was lamenting about the, there was an interview done on the assistant chief of police for Los Angeles, the guy under Gates,
[speaker001:] Oh, yes.
[speaker002:] and they were just really coming down on him because of some of the things he was, just some of the things that he believed in, some of his morals. For instance, uh, they asked him if he spanked his kids, and he said "You bet, I believe in discipline". And people, I, I, I, I guess they confus-, confused discipline with punishment.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, just, it seems anymore that, uh, if, if you have, you know, this type of a moral stance, that people come down on you. It's like, you know, hey, everybody has to be free to do their own thing. And I disagree, and I think that's really contributing to this high rate of crime.
[speaker001:] Yes, yes. Well, I mean, I, I guess what I wanted to say and I stopped, {F uh, I do not know, I got diverted, } was that, that, uh, there's so mu-, there's so much of a return from pris-, to prison that the rehabilitation programs seem to be a failure. [inhaling] And, and that is not emphasized. I recognize there's, there's over crowding problems and, and since we have decided to put everybody in jail that commits a crime now, that that's complicated the entire process.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] What I also think that, I guess it's the reflection of the society where, where we have so much more mobility and less attachment to, uh, you know, it does not seem to be any responsibility to the community where you, where you live or. I do not mean respons-, attachment and responsibility, I guess I mean any sort of,
[speaker002:] Well, nobody feels responsibility to do something. It's like, oh boy, I wish they would stop doing that.
[speaker001:] Yes, that's right.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah I, I do not know how that's, I do not think it's done by, uh, the changes come simply by statutory nature. I do not know what it really will take [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Um.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] And, I do not know if I have solutions, except, except to, you know, I am sort of a, a, an advocate of, of, uh, of letting people, of having free speech and I guess to curb, uh, television, uh, the violence on television and in the movies would be contrary to my beliefs in that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] However, there does seem to be a, right now in verbalizing, it does seem to be a higher need for something of that sort.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and then how many,
[speaker001:] And the sacrifice is not that great.
[speaker002:] How many studies have to be done to show that there is a link between,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, what you see and how yo-, I mean, what you see affects how you think and therefore what you do.
[speaker001:] Yes, yes, I think, I think that's correct.
[speaker002:] And, [throat clearing] yes but, you know, as soon as you start, uh,
[speaker001:] Well, Texas has, uh, Texas has, uh, has always struck me, I mean I, I, I have lived in and out of Texas, both in the service and, uh, uh, short business stints. And it seems to me they are a pretty, pretty tough law and order state, but that's a, but yet that does not seem to have effected the amount of violent right in the state. Just citing that, you know.
[speaker002:] Yeah, uh, unfortunately you have got a lot of the, [inhaling] uh, some, well a lot of it can be contributed to th-, the racial differences, I mean, just that we are so close,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] to the border with Mexico, we have got a lot of that influence.
[speaker001:] Yeah.