[speaker001:] I guess we are just to discuss trials and, and punishment. If it's to be given by the judge or not. Did you, did you catch your explanation of that?
[speaker002:] [Noise] [static] Yes, I did. It's, it's, uh,
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] The, uh, maybe I'm a hard liner but I think that there should be some preset penalties in criminal cases. Rather than, uh, degrees of sentencing.
[speaker001:] You mean the crimes or the punishment should fit the crime?
[speaker002:] Right. Right.
[speaker001:] Okay [Lipsmack].
[speaker002:] Uh, again, having participated in jury duty myself, I know [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] Yes, I did also.
[speaker002:] I know how such a diverse group of people get together, the different backgrounds, different ideas, that
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] sometimes you can have one person or two,
[speaker001:] [Noise] [like a telephone buzzer].
[speaker002:] that can hold up what I consider the proper sentencing,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] of the p-, person.
[speaker001:] Could you hang on one minute Jim?
[speaker002:] Yes ma'am.
[speaker001:] Thank you [long pause].
[speaker002:] [Noise] [swallowing] [cough].
[speaker001:] I am so sorry to keep you on hold.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] No problem.
[speaker001:] Are you at work?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Okay, I am too. [LAUGHTER] Um,
[speaker002:] Yeah. Um, I think what you have is, the way the, the justice system works is they bend over backwards trying to protect the guilty.
[speaker001:] Oh, it's insane.
[speaker002:] So many things in their back, pardon?
[speaker001:] It's insane.
[speaker002:] Yes. I know,
[speaker001:] [Noise] [guttural sounds].
[speaker002:] my wife participated in a jury trial [lipsmack] several years back
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] wherein the individual after it was over and they,
[speaker001:] [Talking].
[speaker002:] had came up with the maximum sentence
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] in the jury form they found out that, uh, the gentleman involved had a long history of the same type offense
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] which was theft of
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, property.
[speaker001:] Oh yes.
[speaker002:] And yet, the as-, the attorney,
[speaker001:] [Talking].
[speaker002:] for the prosecution could not enter these, uh, the good man's background into it. It was like,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] this was a first time offender.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Whereas, uh,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] I think that's,
[speaker001:] It seems like,
[speaker002:] Those that should be in jail should be in jail [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] That's correct and there's too much leniency, there's too much, uh, um, underhanded, uh, things going on that the public are not aware of.
[speaker002:] Yeah [very faintly].
[speaker001:] And it seems as though we are, uh, giving the criminal the benefit, more than the victim. The victim has been victimized twice, not only by the perpetrator of the crime but also,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] the courts that try to do the justice.
[speaker002:] Well, I think this is one of the reasons that also that attorneys have such a, a, unsavory reputation, shall we say?
[speaker001:] I do not have any, I don't have an ounce in my body of credibility toward the, the judicial system in
[speaker002:] Yeah [very faintly].
[speaker001:] the United States.
[speaker002:] Well, what you got is the situation wherein, uh, if you ever get in trouble, you want to hire the smartest, crookedest, lawyer you can find.
[speaker001:] Isn't that terrible?
[speaker002:] And, uh, that's not the idea. It's, the idea is not to get the guy off of the crime,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] that he committed, but to punish him for the crime he committed. * slash error
[speaker001:] Well, to punish him for the crime but also to try and reeducate the man's thinking.
[speaker002:] Yeah. *slash error
[speaker001:] To get him out of that, uh, uh, criminal mind that he has and to direct,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] him into a more productive life.
[speaker002:] Yeah [faint]. Well we have, uh, a situation again that I am familiar with where, uh, the son of an acquaintance of mine
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] was killed
[speaker001:] Oh [very faintly].
[speaker002:] while trying to stop a robbery.
[speaker001:] Yes, how sad.
[speaker002:] And the person that killed him was a young woman [lipsmack] who had left the house with full intent to commit crimes, carrying a gun in her purse.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [Noise] And, anyway it'd get to the, she was sentenced to jail but then due to technicalities, she was going to be out of jail within eighteen months after she was sentenced.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Of course it took eighteen months for the thing, the trial to happen.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] So, then, uh,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] there was a letter writing campaign that went in, [lipsmack] and the Parole Board received approximately a thousand letters protesting putting this person back on the street within eighteen months after killing someone. And, uh, fortunately it worked. They, uh, elimi-, they corrected the technicality.
[speaker001:] Well if,
[speaker002:] And the person now will have to serve three to four years of the seven or eight they were sentenced to.
[speaker001:] [Talking] [Faint] Yes. If enough of the public,
[speaker002:] [Cough].
[speaker001:] responded to, uh, the dir-, the, uh, parties that are involved, and if enough, they will listen to the voice of the people. I have found that out. That if enough people respond and rise up against the injustices being done, something is going to change.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] People have to be involved.
[speaker002:] [Noise] [Like sipping through a straw] This is it
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and most people don't take the time.
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] Again the only reason I took the time is because I was personally acquainted
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker002:] with these people. I'm just
[speaker001:] You were,
[speaker002:] as guilty as the rest in that respect.
[speaker001:] Yes. Uh, but, [talking] and I'm not making an excuse but we, our priorities are a bit backward.
[speaker002:] Oh yes. Well, they, again the, and I'm not knocking the civil rights program or anything like that, but we've gone,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] overboard to, uh, protect persons from being, having their civil rights,
[speaker001:] [Noise].
[speaker002:] violated to the point where the person that is damaged,
[speaker001:] [Talking].
[speaker002:] is not protected. It's again the victim gets worse punishment then the person,
[speaker001:] [Talking] [NOISE].
[speaker002:] that commits the crimes.
[speaker001:] That's correct.
[speaker002:] Yeah [NOISE].
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker002:] [Sigh] Okay. [LAUGHTER] I think we're both in agreement on this subject.
[speaker001:] Well, I am too.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I mean I, I just can't. I, you know, I served on a jury for a lady that was having a mental problem and we found her not guilty because the lady obviously was not in their right mind. So if the person is not in the right mind, I mean they had to, uh, [lipsmack] put her away.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But for her own safety and for, because she didn't know what she was doing.
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] And we couldn't, we just dismissed the case.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, and, and, she was, uh, taken care of [NOISE] by the proper facility.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well another side of the coin that with our justice system there are a lot of frivolous cases that go to court. There are a lot of things that could be settled out of court
[speaker001:] Yes, that's true.
[speaker002:] which, uh, or should never have gone to court. And then the amazing thing, of course, is how, uh, some cases can come to trial in thirty days, and others it takes eighteen months [NOISE] [static].