[speaker001:] Well, I am new to Texas, so I don't even know what the law is,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh?
[speaker001:] in the state, do you?
[speaker002:] Well, yes, of course, we do have capital punishment. And we've, you know, done away with our, quote, fair share number.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's right, I think now, that I recall, reading about it in the paper.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Um, you know, different things, is it restricted to certain crimes? Or just,
[speaker002:] Yes, it's certain crimes, uh, capital crimes, murder, of course, uh, rape,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] this sort of thing.
[speaker001:] Um. Well.
[speaker002:] It seems to be a disproportionate number of blacks, you know, that get into the system.
[speaker001:] Yes, I know, the one thing that I think is really sad about it, as I recall, from the articles that I've read, is that if, if people who have been there, [throat clearing] are going to be killed. Um, there's people that come to the prisons and they're very violent and, they want, I mean they're anxious for someone to be killed [child].
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yes.
[speaker001:] I just, I can't see that.
[speaker002:] That happens on occasion, it sure does,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] maybe it just depends on, you know, how closely the crime, you know,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] has affected you personally. You know, I don't know, or a person personally.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] I think I would be, you know, I guess, really if I had to say yes or no, I guess I would say, you know, that I am in certain cases, in favor of the death penalty, I don't know that it's a big deterrent really. I don't know that it is. I don't know how we'd ever find out, you know, really whether it is or not.
[speaker001:] Well, there is so many chances for appeal, that it kee-,
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah, oh, absolutely, yeah, it goes on for years and years, and costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, taxpayer money.
[speaker001:] Ye-, it's really sad.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't know, I just think, um, somehow I hoped that as a people we could be better than, than, um, expecting,
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] the feeling that it with, someone is calling for someone else to be killed, you know.
[speaker002:] Yes, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Is really kind of bad [child].
[speaker002:] Yes it is. It's a tough, tough question. It really is.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] I suspect I would be, uh, you know, a lot more favor of it if, you know, one of my children were, you know, brutally killed, or something like that. Like I say, I think it depends on how personally affected, you know, you might be by it.
[speaker001:] That's true and there really are criminals that are hard-core and,
[speaker002:] Oh, absolutely.
[speaker001:] repeat, and never have any chance for,
[speaker002:] Tha-, that's right.
[speaker001:] Oh, I don't know, is it, do you feel at all like, it's a religious issue?
[speaker002:] Not with me personally. It is with a lot of other people.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] It's not, not to me personally, no.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] I don't know, sometimes I feel, I mean I do go to church and things. I don't know how I would feel about it. But like you say, if it hit you personally,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] closer at home you would feel,
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] feel differently.
[speaker002:] That's a, it's a tough, tough question, it really is.
[speaker001:] Do you think most states have that or? [child].
[speaker002:] Yes, I think most states do have capital punishment. Yes.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, huh.
[speaker002:] But, I think the U S is one of the few countries that still do.
[speaker001:] That still does it, that's right.
[speaker002:] Yes, they're only, I was reading something about it the other day, I think there was only like six or eight countries in the world, that have capital punishment still.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] A lot of them had to have el-, elected not to do so. Now I don't know, what they do in place of it. You know, maybe it's life in prisonment or, you know, something, I don-, I don't know how they handle it bu-, I was surprised to learn that so few countries have capital punishment.
[speaker001:] Have that. Well, and it doesn't seem like very many people, uh, are really, I mean, there's a lot of people that are on death row.
[speaker002:] Oh, yes.
[speaker001:] But there's not very many people that actually, um. do get killed.
[speaker002:] Yes, a lot of them do get their sentences commuted to something else.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. So, it seems like a of people live there, and then through appeals.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Because I know they do frequently, I mean they cover, cover it pretty heavily on television and the newspaper.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yes.
[speaker001:] If it finally gets to that point.
[speaker002:] Right, the first appeal is automatic, so that delays it for a few years just right off the bat.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] There's, there's a lot of, you know, last minute, uh, [sniffing] things that happen cause a person not to,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] have to go through the whole thing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. So is it, uh, are we doing lethal injection now?
[speaker002:] Yes, uh-huh. That's, that's fairly recent, I don't know, how recent, but fairly recent, in the state of Texas. Before that, it was, uh, death by electrocution.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh, wh-, which seems so awful.
[speaker002:] Yes, it certainly does.
[speaker001:] So, it's a little bit more humane, I guess, it is,
[speaker002:] Yes, it would almost have to be, I suppose. If you, if you had to chose, I guess I would, I am sure I would take the lethal injection.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yes, the other one just seems so terrible.
[speaker002:] Yes, absolutely.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] It's a, it's a tough question. It really is. I guess, if I had to say yes or no, I would say, you know, yes. I, I would have to lean toward capital punishment, you know, for certain crimes.
[speaker001:] Well, do you think that we do it because we want it to deter crime or, it's not because we don't want to pay for inmates to stay in prison?
[speaker002:] No, I don't think it's a monetary thing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I think, we hope that it will be, you know, some sort of determ-, deterrent or, you know, an eye for an eye type thing, or something like that.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] Some of the crimes are just so brutal and so, you know, useless. This may seem to be the best way out. I don't know.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Easiest way out maybe. No, I don't think it's a monetary thing.
[speaker001:] Um. Well, um, and I notice that the crime rate was up in the Dallas area [throat clearing]. It's,
[speaker002:] Yes, especially the murder rate, its just gone crazy.
[speaker001:] It's kind of been scary,
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] to think about it and,
[speaker002:] Absolutely.
[speaker001:] And you're hoping there is something that will cut down on that.
[speaker002:] Yes, I wish I had the answer for that, everybody does.
[speaker001:] You hate to have the dubious honor of being, you know, so high in the,
[speaker002:] Yes, it's nothing to be proud of,
[speaker001:] in statistics,
[speaker002:] certainly not.
[speaker001:] But I, you know, we have been really fortunate our family,
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] hasn't had any crime.
[speaker002:] Yes, so have we been very, very fortunate.
[speaker001:] And, so we don't, it's harder to think about the poor people that have suffered that way.
[speaker002:] That's right. Absolutely.
[speaker001:] And how they would expect,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] how they would hope, I mean you, you hear of people who have, um, committed crimes, and then they get out of jail and they go, and they do the same thing again.
[speaker002:] Absolutely.
[speaker001:] And you wonder why they can't just stop it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. That's right.
[speaker001:] So, maybe you would,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but still I would hate to be on the jury that sentenced someone.
[speaker002:] So would I, I fortunately, I have never been in that circumstance, I hope I never am, like, like everybody else.
[speaker001:] No, [LAUGHTER] I know when, um, we just, we moved here, uh, I from the, I got a summons, jury summons,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] just like constantly, it seemed like,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but fortunately I had small children and I didn't have to go.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And it's not that, I mean, I think everyone should have to serve on the jury,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it's just that, I didn't, I hate having to be in charge of someone else's life.
[speaker002:] Sure, it's, it's a big responsibility, it really is.
[speaker001:] And I would hate to have to hear any kind of case,
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] involving a violent crime or anything.
[speaker002:] So would I.
[speaker001:] That would be really awful.
[speaker002:] Yes. Absolutely.
[speaker001:] Well, anyway, I sure have enjoyed, uh, talking to you about this. Although it has been difficult but, uh.
[speaker002:] It is, it's a tough subject, it really is.
[speaker001:] I'd hate to decide it, but I guess, uh, guess it's important,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] that we decide as a people what, what we're going to do.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Anyway, well, you have a good day.
[speaker002:] Well, thank you, it's nice talking to you.
[speaker001:] Thank you, bye-bye.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Bye-bye.