[speaker002:] okay well uh what's your opinion about capital punishment
[speaker001:] well Cathy I think that uh capital punishment certainly has has a place in our society um maybe from the sense that there are some things that we just can't afford to have repeated uh even even in the remote chance of repetition
[speaker002:] right I think I would agree with you on that too I I can't see any point in keeping someone who's obviously beyond any kind of rehabilitation uh keeping them you know paying for them to live in prison for years and years and years when you could probably just eliminate the problem maybe spend the money on someone who could possibly be helped
[speaker001:] that might be true um um what I don't know is where do we draw the line
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh do we say that everyone who commits murder in the first degree is liable for capital punishment if that's what the jury decides is an appropriate punishment for their crime uh or do we extend it uh beyond that
[speaker002:] uh-huh beyond murder or just beyond like first degree murder
[speaker001:] well either you know uh I have a a nine year old daughter and there are some crimes that could be committed against her that are not even considered capital crimes that that I would consider basis for murder
[speaker002:] yeah yeah well that really gets into into a sticky issue uh I could see that too I think there's probably things I could think of short of murder that someone I think someone would probably deserve to be killed for but gosh and and who's going to decide which is how bad you know something that to you is really bad might not be quite so bad to me and yeah it's gets into a pretty sticky issues
[speaker001:] yes it does uh a lot of that has to do with the cultures that we grew up in and what's termed acceptable and and uh to what's allowable and and where are we
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh you know if we were lived in a different country then murder is not so bad
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but over here where we're promised the civil liberties of pursuit life liberty and pursuit of happiness then taking that away is a a heinous act
[speaker002:] yeah in some eyes I think some people give up that I think some of what we consider rights are really more privileges than think what most people think of them as I don't know what um Texas's criteria for capital murder is do capital punishment is do you know are there some set guidelines like only under these circumstances
[speaker001:] I don't know I believe it's uh at the discretion of the judge or or jury
[speaker002:] uh-huh I used to live in Virginia and I know when they first reinstated capital punishment it was only um if someone killed a police officer or someone committed rape and then murder those were the only two circumstances where you could give someone the death penalty which I think is a little too limited
[speaker001:] I tend to agree with you there um my belief is that is that uh any crime that's freely committed you know freedom of choice these these people had a choice of committing this crime
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] that involves the taking of another's life or the altering of someone's life
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] such as rape deserves punishment by death but then I'm also told that I'm a pretty harsh person
[speaker002:] yeah in general terms I'm not so harsh but then whenever I hear of a specific case you know where someone did something then it's it's like yeah put it to them so I I think I probably tend to be a little bit harsh too as far as that goes because yeah I think you're right that person voluntarily gives up when they decide to commit that crime they voluntarily give up their right to continue on with their happy life just because you know they they ruin someone else's life
[speaker001:] oh I I can see a difference between a person who goes out to rob a store for food
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] than a person who commits a crime to uh either for the thrill of committing the crime or the thrill the feeling of power that they get from it or to acquire drugs for some other I mean acquire funds for some other illegal activity
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] you know that second group of people falls into the the group that I say give up their rights the the first guy I you know I just assumed that it was a guy the first person that that went out to rob a store for food that to me is is a different set of circumstances where he he deserves help instead of uh the loss of life
[speaker002:] right yeah he didn't go out with the intent of hurting someone else
[speaker001:] that's right or with the
[speaker002:] or with no regard for someone else's well being what about uh like teenagers that get involved in a gang and do a drive by shooting or something like that say fifteen sixteen year old would you consider uh capital punishment for them
[speaker001:] I think I would probably lower the age to about fourteen
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] there's some and and I certainly don't know myself but somebody needs to do a study that says at what age true and complete logical thought to include the the consideration of of long term consequences
[speaker002:] right yeah what age that they're accountable for their actions
[speaker001:] begins you know I I have an eighteen year old and uh it well he's nineteen now and I don't think that I saw it in him until maybe last year uh and I have an eleven and eleven year old and a nine year old and I don't don't see it in them yet but I'm I'm not sure where it begins
[speaker002:] yeah I know that they are lowering the age of uh whatever is considered a minor I think the kids certain kids are have been tried as adults who were a lot younger than they used to be like I think I read about a boy that was nine or ten that got mad at some playmates and went in and got a gun and just opened fire on them and they were trying to charge him as as a