[speaker001:] [clicking] [music] Well, Kathleen, do you believe that there is a problem with our public school system?
[speaker002:] [static] I certainly do. Uh, I think...
[speaker001:] And what do you think that problem is?
[speaker002:] I think we have a lousy school system. And I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we don't train our teachers very well. And then we put the schools in the hands of professional educators instead of the teachers and the parents. And then,
[speaker001:] [thumping].
[speaker002:] oh, we don't, uh, we put too much, uh, responsibility on the teachers,
[speaker001:] [thumping].
[speaker002:] for things that are really not education. They're social services.
[speaker001:] Huh. That seems like you've thought this through quite a bit before.
[speaker002:] Well, [LAUGHTER] I, as a matter of fact, I just finished editing a book on the topic. So I have some rather strong opinions.
[speaker001:] That's interesting. Do you, [NOISE] [sounds like a saw] uh, yourself...
[speaker002:] And, and I'm [clicking] sure they're colored by what I've edited.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Do youself have children wi-, who are or have been through the public school system?
[speaker002:] Yes, I do. And I was not very happy with the results.
[speaker001:] I see. So if you were to improve it, what would you do to improve it?
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Well, I think I would start with a -bout, with getting rid of about two-thirds of the administrators.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And all the [clicking] auxiliary personnel. The school bureaucracy that exists mainly to perpetuate itself.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And then I would provide, uh, use the money that we've paying them to, uh, provide some special help in training and particularly, uh, mentor teachers
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] to work with the beginning teachers and the teachers who may have been at it a long time [LAUGHTER] but have been making the same mistakes for a long time [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Sure. Sure.
[speaker002:] And then [swallowing] let them try some innovative things and see what
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] works. And then, uh, have some sort of mechanism for passing that knowledge along to other teachers who could benefit from the same sorts of things.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And then from the parents' side, have the parents support the school. Get involved. Pay attention to what's happening. Talk to the teachers. Uh, talk to their kids about school. And support the institution and, a-, instead of becoming adversaries to the teachers so that the, uh, the teacher's in the middle.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. That's, uh, some pretty good ideas. Why don't you do something with those [LAUGHTER]?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, I've done about all I can do which is get the manuscript in good shape so that it can be published and read by a lot of people.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well, you should, uh, run for a school board position.
[speaker002:] Oh, well. That I'm not so sure about. I've got a lot of things to keep me busy.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. That...
[speaker002:] Have you done anything like that? Anything political?
[speaker001:] Well, my mother was on the school board.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] As we were coming up. And, uh, that, basically, is the extent to which our, our family has been directly, you know, they've always been involved. My parents through the, the P T A organization. And my mother was on the school board for eight years.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, that was, that's the extent of which I guess that's more than, than some people, less than others [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's more than a lot [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I would, uh, tend to agree with you that there is a problem [swallowing]. The methods of correcting it I haven't thought through quite to the detail which you have. But I believe that there's definitely a basic perception and image problem with the fact of even being a teacher.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And if there was a way to, through the public mind, set that image to be a little higher esteem, a little, uh, uh, a little more prestige to being a teacher. And with that, of course, you know, you have to pay them a, accordingly. If we paid them more, it would attract more the, the higher educated people to, to either move into that field or to continue in that field.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And then if you paid them more, you'd also be able to demand a higher quality product out of them.
[speaker002:] I think that's absolutely right. They, the thing that worries me about that is that if you just raise salaries across the board, you're going to be,
[speaker001:] [NOISE].
[speaker002:] uh, rewarding people who've been doing a lousy job. And
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] instead of getting the, uh, improvement that we want.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker002:] So we'd have to have some way to, uh, reward and recognize the teachers who are doing a good job and give them a,
[speaker001:] [breathing].
[speaker002:] a pat on the back and respect and some honor and
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] more money.
[speaker001:] It, unfortunately, it's a, and it's a business or an occupation that the results are not as tangible
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah. It's, it's hard to tell.
[speaker001:] as other ones so it's very, it's very difficult to say that this teacher is doing a better job than this other one, other than I guess how, you kn-, how a person scores in the beginning before the class and then after the class. You know, if there's some gauge that they could make.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, also, I've alw-, I've thought around about the idea of making teaching and the [NOISE], before you can [static] get a certificate, you have a, a certain residency period. So much like a doctor. Maybe not the four years definitely. But some certain type of, of position where you're overseen to begin with.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Now that's a very good suggestion.
[speaker001:] [NOISE] Uh, just something to, i-, rather than throw someone in, into that environment, uh, you know, it
[speaker002:] Yeah. I don't think
[speaker001:] I thought that maybe something.
[speaker002:] student, I don't think student teaching is enough. I think
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that, at least what I used to observe in student teaching, was that some college kid who might not be all that bright to begin with, was thrown into a class room with a teacher who was harried and overworked and, uh, had too many kids to handle and too many things to do and too many interruptions
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] to pay much attention to the student teacher. And then the student teacher didn't stay but about six weeks.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So there really was no time to try,
[speaker001:] [NOISE].
[speaker002:] much of anything and get significant feedback that would help the, the student teacher improve very much.
[speaker001:] Sure. Sure.
[speaker002:] [Lipsmack] There are lots of things that could be done in that line, including things like video taping. Because it wouldn't be hard with all the electronic equipment that's around these days to video tape, uh, either a master teacher teaching a class so that then,
[speaker001:] [NOISE].
[speaker002:] students could watch that and, uh, criticize the methods used and, and analyze it. Figure out what worked and what didn't work.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And then also to video tape the student teachers so they could correct their own performance.
[speaker001:] Sure. Sure. That's good as a, a, a teaching aid. But more you see these commercials that have Jimmy walking into class late and it happens that the teacher is an instructor who is in New York while Jimmy's in Rome.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] And, you know, the whole electronic classroom idea.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I don't know if I I'm in favor
[speaker002:] I don't think that's going to work.
[speaker001:] yeah, in favor of, yeah, I think, especially in the younger years you need to have more of the, the person contact rather than just the fact that your machine being fed information to, to learn how to learn.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, another thing I think would be helpful would be to have some sort of, of say a national curriculum. Because one of the problems with getting good textbooks is that we have such a fragmented system for, uh, curriculums that the textbook makers produce a textbook that will sell in Texas and California. And then everybody else is stuck with that, regardless of what they want to teach.
[speaker001:] Huh. Is that
[speaker002:] Because it...
[speaker001:] because that's where the two biggest markets are or?
[speaker002:] Well, that's the two states that adopt on a state wide basis.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] Uh, and so it, uh, I used to work for a textbook publisher and it was absolutely clear that if you could get your book adopted by Texas, then you had a built-in market because there were only about three or four textbooks in each subject and all you had to do is just get your share of those adopted
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] in the individual school districts.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] And, you know, a third of the Texas market with its millions of kids is a heck of a lot of textbooks.
[speaker001:] Sure. Sure.
[speaker002:] And then the states that either don't adopt on a state wide basis or don't have as many kids, just have to follow along and take what Texas gets.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] California is the biggest for elementary schools but Texas, uh, adopts state wide all the way through the twelfth grade.
[speaker001:] I see. Well, definitely is a national problem if, that they need to address.
[speaker002:] Yep. Sure is.
[speaker001:] Definitely is.
[speaker002:] And I hope maybe we're going to get somewhere with a little more attention being paid to it with, uh, Reagan's, uh, new education secretary and, uh, you know, trying to do some, uh, trying to produce some new programs anyway.
[speaker001:] Right, right.
[speaker002:] [talking] Excuse me.
[speaker001:] Well, I've enjoyed speaking with you.
[speaker002:] I have got to go. I've got another line calling. Thanks.
[speaker001:] All righty. Good-bye [clicking] [music].
[speaker002:] Bye [clicking] [static].