[speaker001:] well
[speaker002:] um yes
[speaker001:] let me see let me see uh interesting subject I was I was a law student for a year and a half so I've got uh slight bit of expertise in that area not much
[speaker002:] well explain this to me
[speaker001:] I okay
[speaker002:] why do we have sometimes a petit jury isn't it
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and a grand jury
[speaker001:] uh okay it depends on the kind of action it is and also depends on the state um you don't have to have a jury of twelve and that's true in just about all states um it just depends on which ever state statue governs on the uh selection of juries now the the term petit usually applies applies to grand juries you have a uh a grand jury and a petit grand jury um sometimes in some states they also call a uh less than twelve member jury a petit jury uh did that sufficiently confuse you
[speaker002:] all right now when do we have them just in criminal big criminal cases
[speaker001:] um uh when when do you have what a jury
[speaker002:] when you have both like I was called for a murder trial a few weeks ago
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and they had had already had one trial and determined that there was enough evidence to go on and have the second one
[speaker001:] um okay
[speaker002:] so is it just murder or what where you have both
[speaker001:] uh okay I I still I still don't get it both what
[speaker002:] both juries
[speaker001:] uh at the same time
[speaker002:] no they didn't have they had had one
[speaker001:] oh okay yeah
[speaker002:] and decided that there was enough evidence and then
[speaker001:] okay uh well well what they do is on a criminal indictment first they go to the grand jury okay the grand jury will either indite or not once a person is indicted then they generally have an evidentiary hearing um and it's strange strange that there would have been a jury there because evidentiary hearings are usually are just before the judge now it's possible they had another trial in which now I I I don't know enough about it to to really to really say uh uh
[speaker002:] say
[speaker001:] how long did the other trial go do you know
[speaker002:] huh-uh I don't know and like you said maybe it was just with the judge I don't know
[speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah uh the thing is in almost almost every case when there's a question about uh the evidence against the the person there's there's what's called an evidentiary hearing and the both sides get up there and the judge decides whether or not the evidence is good
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and if the evidence is good then they go ahead and go to trial so you were probably probably being tapped for the jury for the trial
[speaker002:] yeah well I'll tell you something I think ought to be changed
[speaker001:] what's that
[speaker002:] well they sent out eight hundred summons
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and about four hundred people showed up right all the others had gotten out of it
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] then the judge went on for several hours explaining to us how the law goes
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and some of the particulars of the case and then all these people got to stand up if they wanted to get out of it well that was about half of us right stood up and tried to get out
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] well I mean that took like an hour and a half at least for him to listen to everybody
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and then he he didn't let hardly let anybody off you know it was just like we wasted a prayer I didn't go up there because I knew I didn't have a leg to stand on
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah well it's it's hard to get out of jury duty I mean it's uh it's an obligation on on each citizen and short of uh any of the special circumstances then they generally won't let you out
[speaker002:] yeah I've been getting out of it the last few years because I was going to school
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know you can plead that and I had small children but then I found out that you're not supposed to plead that unless you're the care taker you know and I'm not because I have to go to work and then they were going to day care so I shouldn't have been doing that
[speaker001:] right uh
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but anyway well as long as they didn't question you too closely I mean the thing is uh the easiest way to get out of one of these things is uh uh uh they'll ask you questions like do you know the defendant have you heard anything about the case do you have any uh specially if it's a murder case they may be asking for uh for a capital uh a capital's capital punishment
[speaker002:] punishment um-hum
[speaker001:] uh you can always say that you object to that and they'll let you off there
[speaker002:] well I certainly I believed in it in some situations you know cases but I would feel that it would be very hard for me to impose it on somebody
[speaker001:] yeah uh that
[speaker002:] I think
[speaker001:] yeah that's that won't get you off that you you have to be you have to be dead set against it
[speaker002:] okay um
[speaker001:] the fact that you're willing the fact that you believe in it doesn't uh doesn't matter of course they're going to ask you can do you think you could impose it in this case
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and you know I that that to me that's always been a stupid question I I mean I don't know I haven't heard the evidence yet
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I mean if if if he did something really really gross then yeah
[speaker002:] well this guy that was sitting in in front of me said that he was a private investigator and he had been tailing the woman that was murdered and as far as he was concerned that this guy was guiltier than hell now listen to what he supposedly did he supposedly stuffed paper toweling up this women's nostrils and down her throat and strangled her
[speaker001:] ugh
[speaker002:] now how this happened was this rich little socialite in Plano down here in Texas decided that she was going to bump off her husband's girlfriend because he didn't want to divorce her
[speaker001:] oh God
[speaker002:] and she wanted to get a stab at more money right by knocking him off
[speaker001:] yeah right
[speaker002:] so she hired four guys to do it and this guy actually did it
[speaker001:] oh God
[speaker002:] now she uh in the mean time took off with one of her lawyers who was also under indictment for attempting drug among them
[speaker001:] they ought to make this into a TV show
[speaker002:] yeah among them cocaine right so they split anyway they got the lawyer and he's now going to side with the cate with the state so that he'll get a lesser sentence
[speaker001:] yeah he's going to turn states evidence
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] God
[speaker002:] pretty interesting huh
[speaker001:] now that that would have been fun to sit in on
[speaker002:] well now they're going to call people up after they've gone through this five page thing that we had to fill out
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and decide to call in people two to three at a time
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] they're going to do this let's see all through April and May and the trials not supposed to start until June well that's the beginning of my vacation
[speaker001:] um that
[speaker002:] I don't want to be picked
[speaker001:] nothing like taking your vacation what you ought to do is reschedule your vacation real quick
[speaker002:] I can't I'm a teacher it's then or never
[speaker001:] oh yeah um gosh
[speaker002:] anyway
[speaker001:] what a way to spend your your vacation
[speaker002:] I'm not going to be summoned I mean out of four hundred I'm not going to be one of the twelve especially see I put that down that that guy had told me that but then I've heard that won't make a difference either
[speaker001:] yeah that that's well it may because it it's something that could have influenced your your your uh uh your uh your bias
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] so well there's a good chance if they if they ask you about it you know I would I wouldn't just come out and say I think the guys guilty but I I would say that I've heard enough about this that I I really have a preconceived notion of of what the guy did
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and I think that you know in in other words if you if you can just show that you're not going to be that you can't be uh unbiased that's going to be enough
[speaker002:] well what do you think can we change the system
[speaker001:] well there's been all kinds of talk about it but quite honestly I don't think there's anything else that we could put in place that would work as well I mean I I realize it's cumbersome and uh uh it's time consuming and at times even ridiculous but it the that nobody's come up with any better solution
[speaker002:] but something ought to be done because if you have money you get a good lawyer and you get off
[speaker001:] well that that is that's a that's one of those things I think's sort sort of a preconceived notion on the part of the public they you can have a whole bunch of money and you can have the best lawyers but you you know if you've got if you've got a reasonable jury who will look at the evidence I mean you see that's what it all comes down to it's the jury uh if they are I mean there's no doubt that you you can pick a jury okay in some in some respects you can get the kind of jury you want but short of that I mean if people are reasonable and they'll look at the evidence and decide on that basis then then you know supposedly money doesn't count but on the other hand what can you do about it I mean what what solution is there
[speaker002:] but if you've got a good lawyer he's going to be able to get more persuasive evidence than a poor lawyer would to present and a lawyer that's you know chosen by the state that really doesn't even want to do it
[speaker001:] uh oh you mean a court appointed lawyer
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] yeah there's there's little doubt that I mean obviously a court appointed lawyer doesn't have the time or the resources to do as much but on the other hand I mean again what what can be done about it you know it's it's one of those I I think unsolvable sort of things I mean we we make the motions of