[speaker001:] okay we're rolling I uh what what would you what would has your experience lead you to advise uh if my child were thinking of going to the Air Force Academy what would you say
[speaker002:] I'd encourage it
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] it's a good general education education education for a a bachelor's degree
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] and obviously and obviously it's where they don't have a any post graduate program there but you get a an excellent wide uh basis of topics you know you get a good broad education out of it you don't they don't graduate the best engineers or the best English majors but
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] maybe a graduate pretty good overall students out of there
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum how do you feel about it must be a somewhat different environment from a regular college how does that uh
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] how do you feel that is for someone at at that phase in their life
[speaker002:] well the for some people it's good because they maybe they need a little discipline need a little reining in at that that stage in their life uh other people it uh it's
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] uh suffocating you know you kind of choke on it um
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] it it depends on the person on the individual but uh the one factor I think
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] more than anything else in this day and age that's got to be a big factor in your decision's just the the cost of how much you're gonna pay
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] no matter where you go to school
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and if you've been in for twelve years I'm sure you've you've got a your share of student loans that uh you're probably going to be paying off or have been or
[speaker001:] well I sort of one of the reasons it's taken so long is I've been working uh you know it's sort of half student half working and source of income and stuff so I'm actually managing to do this with zero debt
[speaker002:] uh-huh oh that's good
[speaker001:] uh I couldn't you you couldn't do it otherwise
[speaker002:] oh yeah I mean I know people that graduated or that I went to high school with that went to civilian colleges and they they've got twenty thirty thousand dollar debts I mean you could have uh
[speaker001:] yeah I think if there's any major piece of advice I'd give is to find a way of getting an education that doesn't incur that kind of debt
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] it's not I mean I remember seeing an article one time about you know if the average person who spent that much money going to college just took the same amount of money and put it in a a in an investment fund they'd be considerably wealthier than they would be from the job they'd get after college so it's it's really kind of crazy
[speaker002:] exactly it's it's staggering when you think that just here in central New York is uh Hamilton College is just a few miles south of you know maybe about twenty miles to the south from where I am and uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] they're looking for twenty two thousand dollars for tuition and room and board now
[speaker001:] really
[speaker002:] a year
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] at just a small I mean they they they are select it is a select college
[speaker001:] yes yes I know I was actually I think I was thinking of trying to get a job there I heard of it
[speaker002:] oh yeah but you're talking incredible tuitions now I don't know how many people actually pay the whole shot very few I would imagine but uh
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] I get I I just couldn't imagine I mean it's more money than I make in a year so you know it you know me being one person with a above the median
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] income for New York state you know I'm a second I'm a second lieutenant in the Air Force now and uh
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] I even even as a somebody making twice what I was making how could you put half of that into
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] to your child's education and then just when they make made make it to the college years it's
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] my God I can't imagine
[speaker001:] well my my real feeling about about the purpose of undergraduate education is it's really the time yes you do get an education you do learn some things but you eventually forget most of it
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] but what you don't forget is the growing up it's really the period when people become adults I mean people who don't go to college become adults in other ways but really it's the entry into adulthood I think and I think that the best way to choose a college is to decide what kind of environment you want to
[speaker002:] I'd
[speaker001:] be fostered in as you become you know as you gain new social skills as you become you know more of a functioning member of society and maybe the Air Force Academy is appropriate as you said for someone who you know a more you know who needs to learn self-discipline and so forth would be appropriate for them
[speaker002:] or or it's also a good environment it may be good for someone who already has self-discipline who has a certain amount of leadership quality in their own
[speaker001:] yeah and want to develop that
[speaker002:] and that yeah the same it's the same it can benefit different people different ways but uh
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] you know I I agree with that because I see people that I know a again from high school that I still keep in touch with that didn't go to college and
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] they do the same old things they did in high school
[speaker001:] the same patterns of behavior you mean yeah yeah
[speaker002:] and same patterns of behavior same uh same socializing same exact crowd that they hang with and it's like it's like frozen time you know
[speaker001:] exactly it's kind I find it kind of sad I really do
[speaker002:] it is it really is that they haven't found anything anything better that um or their experiences haven't been broadened at all that you know its a
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] it's a tremendous thing when you sit in a in a college environment and discuss some issues and really sit there with people with disagreeing opinions and you hear all these different sides of the story
[speaker001:] yeah right
[speaker002:] that you never thought of and uh that's another big thing I think people get out of college is the appreciation for different point differing points of view you know or different opinions
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum yeah in high school everyone sort of tries to have the same opinion it seems
[speaker002:] yeah exactly
[speaker001:] yeah yeah the the one thing I think that's no good for anyone is these monster institutions these institutions of thirty thirty thousand students
[speaker002:] oh I
[speaker001:] and I see some freshmen wandering around in there and they're they're just like you know someone from the country lost in the big city I mean they
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] they I don't see them getting I mean when I was undergraduate I went to a relatively small school for my first two years and then I transferred to a very large school
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and that worked out pretty well I went from a you know a second rate institution to a higher rate institution
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but the first couple of years it doesn't matter to me what the quality of the education was I needed to make friends I needed to sort of learn the ropes you know there were things like that that mattered a lot more and I needed basic really simple education that you can get
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] pretty much anywhere for the first couple of years
[speaker002:] well your education's a lot what you make of it too so
[speaker001:] yeah yeah exactly and if you're alienated I mean I see people at supposedly really good universities who are just having such psychological problems that you think this isn't sinking in
[speaker002:] yeah well I I've seen more graduates from MIT and that being
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I work in a in a laboratory an Air Force laboratory and so we've got a lot of uh MIT graduates that are in there and they are the biggest collection of screwed up people that I think I've ever run into even even more so
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] uh like military academy grads are a strange lot too I I mean I have to admit confess to that
[speaker001:] yeah it's sort of a a rare select environment
[speaker002:] yeah and they they have their own quirks and tolerances and
[speaker001:] you know
[speaker002:] certain things that don't bother us at all that would drive other people nuts and then certain things that ways things we do the way we do it that drive other people nuts that
[speaker001:] yeah right right sure
[speaker002:] but these MIT grads are off in their absolute own world it it's a I I have more respect I have a lot of respect for MIT master's and doctorate uh
[speaker001:] yeah it's a top rated institution and now I
[speaker002:] degrees but but their undergrads are like I I'm amazed at at that's a lot of them even graduated
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] but uh I don't know
[speaker001:] well I I had known a lot of undergraduates who pick schools because they want the best reputation for a school not realizing that the reputation for MIT is because of the of the doctorate research
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] and the professors who go there and you're not going to see the professors you know you're going to see some TA you know uh
[speaker002:] nope the
[speaker001:] so they put they they want you know they want the best and they don't think they think what the best is is reputation for for research and that's a one standard but it's not relevant to what they need
[speaker002:] yeah no it's interesting that you mention that I didn't think about that before when you were talking but the service academies have all all the faculty uh for the most part is is military with a few exchange
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] instruct professors from other schools but
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] uh having the military faculty is really beneficial because they see it as doing their job and spending time with the cadets there uh is investing in the Air Force and it or the the military itself it's the future officer corps and so
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] I hear horror horror stories from friends of mine that they could never see their instructors they could never get extra help
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] for me any time I needed extra help any time of the day
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] I had all my instructors home phone numbers and could call them you go to their office anytime I had some instructors that uh
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] would invite me over to their house for extended study things on weekends when I was having trouble with something and
[speaker001:] hm yeah you won't get that at MIT or Berkeley or anything like that and you can and you know you can't blame the professors either because you look at their job description you'd see you know teaching is third down on the list of importance things and
[speaker002:] no no and that no right right publish first and then
[speaker001:] yeah and and that's appropriate if the university is trying to do serious research because it's hard to be a researcher and a teacher at the same time
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so I'd say go to a go to a college that has teachers people who really are committed to the students and can afford to be because that's their job
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but oh well
[speaker002:] yeah it's there's a lot of factors that people don't ever ever consider
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] in in their selection of a college and uh I don't know maybe I wonder if if they enter these conversations that people have been having um that