[speaker001:] Well, actually, uh,
[speaker002:] [Baby].
[speaker001:] I, I don't think I'm in the, uh, majority of, in, in Texas I don't think I agree with,
[speaker002:] Oh really.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] You don't believe in it?
[speaker001:] Uh, I wouldn't say that. I think I would have said that a few years ago.
[speaker002:] [Baby].
[speaker001:] When I was younger I thought it was, uh, [sniffing] a sign of a civilized society if you didn't have, uh, capital punishment but, um, uh, maybe slowly changing my opinion.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I'm not thoroughly opposed to it. I still think it's sort of true that a more civilized society wouldn't have to use capital punishment but I'm beginning to believe this is less civilized society than I thought [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] You sound a lot like a friend of mine. A
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] a girl I hang out with. She has very, very black and white [baby] opinions, you know. There's no gray in her opinions, you know. She, she probably would agree more with you but, but I don't know. I think I would rather a person go ahead and be put down than give them the [baby] opportunity to get out and do it again. I've never had a, a punishment or a, a crime like a murder touch my immediate family
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but I still feel very strongly that capital punishment is a good way to, to punish, especially criminals who seem to have absolutely no remorse for what they've done.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And we see that more and more. Like in our state right now, there's a fourteen year old boy who raped and then killed a seven year old girl
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, that's fourteen years old. What's he going to be doing when he turns into an adult.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I certainly don't, uh, advocate turning people like that loose.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I'm not sure executing them, uh, does anymore than keeping them in jail, but, uh,
[speaker002:] No it doesn't but,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] it costs less.
[speaker001:] Yeah. That, that's a factor.
[speaker002:] And, yeah, to me it is. I mean, I work and I pay my taxes and I lived out in Texas for a little while and they're and that's a pretty heavy state compared to Georgia [baby]. I mean you guys are, are a lot more, uh, for to each his own even than we are in Georgia.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But even in Georgia that's the attitude for the most part. If I work and pay my dues
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you work and pay your dues and we'd get along just fine.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But when I've got to work to pay my dues and your dues [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] then I don't like you very much anymore.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I, the cost is something but it's, but I think it's relatively unimportant compared to what's the most effective way of,
[speaker002:] [Noise].
[speaker001:] dealing with crime and I guess I would like, I don't know, the European countries certainly, uh, none of them have capital punishment and they
[speaker002:] Oh, really.
[speaker001:] they don't have a crime problem either. No, you can't, they don't execute anybody in Britain or France and I don't believe they do in Germany or Italy either [throat clearing] and they don't have the crime problems we do. I don't really think that there is too much of a relationship between the two.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I guess what worries me about capital punishment is, uh, when I see people enthusiastic about it and, uh, uh, sort of bloodthirsty. I think it brings out the worst in the, in the people who do the punishing and the, that, that bothers me.
[speaker002:] You might be right.
[speaker001:] But it, but, uh,
[speaker002:] I mean I, I'd hate to be the person to pull the switch, you know,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] I would never in a million years want that job
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] but I do believe it's necessary and I,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] On the one hand I, I guess I admire the person who has the guts to do it because I couldn't
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] I couldn't stand behind a gun and shoot somebody for nothing and I couldn't pull the switch but, uh,
[speaker001:] Well actually I, wha-, the other thing that bothers me is when it becomes a political issue because I don't really think it, uh, I don't really think it's a very important aspect of fighting crime or law and order or anything else. I think it just becomes a, uh, [throat clearing] symbolic I'm tougher than you are type of emotional issue for politicians so
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I would like for it to be settled once for all and, uh, get in the background while the more important issues get discussed, uh, uh,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Like I said, some years ago, I think I would have said there's no place for capital punishment in the,
[speaker002:] [Baby].
[speaker001:] civilized western country.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Now I'm, I'm not so sure of that. I'm, I, I wouldn't vote against somebody just because it was for capital punishment and
[speaker002:] What
[speaker001:] nor the other way around.
[speaker002:] what's making you become more convinced that it might be a good way of punishing [baby]?
[speaker001:] Uh, I guess I'm, I'm, my view of [sniffing], uh, my, I'm beginning to believe that some people are simply not rehabilitatable and, uh, that, uh, uh,
[speaker002:] [Baby].
[speaker001:] costs and other factors justify, uh, uh, executing people.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Maybe it's more a symbolic gesture that, uh, [sniffing] uh, than anything else and, uh, I've also never been a victim although I have some, I have two friends whose wives were murdered and, uh
[speaker002:] Oh, gosh [baby].
[speaker001:] [Sniffing] I can imagine that, uh, uh, for some people it would be the only form of justice in that case.
[speaker002:] [Baby] Oh yes, if it ever touched my fam-,