[speaker001:] Well, what do you think about it?
[speaker002:] Well, um, most of the stuff up until now, in the recent months, I, I, I don't have any problem with.
[speaker001:] No, I don't either.
[speaker002:] Uh, I mean it's, you know it,
[speaker001:] I don't think it's going to change very much but [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] No, I agree with that. As, as far as the, as far as the mess that's developing as a result, um, you know, as a country, the United States, uh, I think our hands are tied
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] as far as, as, as any further involvement,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] until the U N sanctions it. In fact, it really was to begin with.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, I just, I heard a comment on the radio this morning that, uh, you know, it, it gets to a point where, uh, if enough people are, are going to be slaughtered over there over the, the, the internal problems, um, somebody may step in again.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But, uh, I really think it's, it's a U N issue,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] at that point because it is internal.
[speaker001:] Well, you know the funny thing I find about American opinion is that when we have gone in to destabilize a government before, the American public goes crazy.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And now the fact that we're not interfering with the internal rebellion in, in Iraq, they're going crazy.
[speaker002:] That's right, that's right.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] You know, I mean you can't please them one way or the other.
[speaker002:] Absolutely right.
[speaker001:] You know, and I, and I think that, I, I agree with you, this is exactly the right course. I mean that's an internal problem to Iraq. It has nothing to do with us.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And until he starts doing something so inhumane that the U N gets involved, then it's nobody's business.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Um,
[speaker002:] I mean these, these types of internal things go on all over the world all the time.
[speaker001:] All the time. I mean, yeah, I mean,
[speaker002:] Some of them have been going on for, for tens of years,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] if, if I understand it right in places like the Sudan and,
[speaker001:] Yeah, and it's certainly, and it's certainly been going on over there for hundreds of years.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And it's going to continue.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] As long as you have so many diverse groups that are, that are vying for power, it's going to happen all the time.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's absolutely right.
[speaker001:] I mean the Kurds have tried it before. They've gotten their butts kicked,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and this is just another time that it's happening.
[speaker002:] That's, that's absolutely right.
[speaker001:] You know, they'll regroup out in the mountains and they'll try it again in a couple of years.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it was just, you know, it was, it's a very opportune moment for them to try. You know you,
[speaker001:] Sure, and, and, and I don't have any doubt that through some back channels that we encouraged it.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] You know.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, I'm not real sure that we promised them anything.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I, that would have been stupid,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and, and I don't think we did it. Everything else we handled in this seemed to be perfectly right. I don't think they would have done that.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I agree.
[speaker001:] But it just, it, it really doesn't make any difference. This is just a, a, another chapter in Middle Eastern history.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and, you know, and it, there are many of them. There's no doubt about it.
[speaker001:] Oh, sure, I mean the, the British occupied the place, the French occupied it, we've done it. It, it's happened so many times, this is, this is really nothing special. Uh,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, and, and, and so many of the, so many of the conflicts, um, really don't have a basis in, in, uh, politics or, or human rights or anything like that. It,
[speaker001:] That's right, it's al-, it's mostly religious anyway.
[speaker002:] It's, it's religious based and, uh, you know, by, by self-proclamation this is a holy war and it is right.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And then, uh, we, we go on from there and,
[speaker001:] Yeah, exactly.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it, it's, it's a mess. It, it's, there's no doubt about it, and, uh,
[speaker001:] Well, I, I, I think one of the big problems, I mean looking at it from the Am-, the American public's standpoints, they don't understand the Middle Easterners.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] They don't understand what, I mean their politics really isn't politics. It's religion couched as politics.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And there's a big difference.
[speaker002:] Absolutely.
[speaker001:] You know, uh, we sit there and, and we think that they think the way we think.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And that's a big mistake,
[speaker002:] You bet.
[speaker001:] because they don't.
[speaker002:] You bet. Well, yeah, because there's no, uh, you know, there's, there's, there's a complete different set of values.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, there's, there's different value placed on human life,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and, uh, right down the list, you know, possessions and, and everything else.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, what's right is wrong and what's wrong is right in some cases.
[speaker001:] That's, that's it a lot of the time. I, I was stationed in, in Turkey for, for a year and a half.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] And it, it was tough,
[speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] under-, understanding those folks.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, it, they, they're, they're so completely different culturally and socially and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and religiously, it's just, it was very strange.
[speaker002:] I believe it.
[speaker001:] It was very interesting.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, I can, I can, I can believe that. Yeah, I, I don't claim to have an in-depth understanding by any means, but, uh,
[speaker001:] Now I, shoot, I, I think some of these people that they claim as Middle Eastern experts don't, don't have a clue sometimes.
[speaker002:] That's probably true, that's probably true.
[speaker001:] You know they, they sit there and, and read their books and then proclaim themselves an expert.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well, I'm not real sure that's, that's appropriate.
[speaker002:] No, no, that's, that's, uh, a, a little bit of background study has never made an expert in any field.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] But, uh,
[speaker001:] Well, I sort, that sort of goes to my pet peeve about the education system in this country, too.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And we make experts by reading books.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] You know, and the Japanese and the Germans and everybody else make experts by doing.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, absolutely,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Absolutely.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I, uh, I, I guess you work for T I.
[speaker002:] That's right, yes.
[speaker001:] So you guys are well aware of the problems with the Japanese markets and everything else.
[speaker002:] Right, right, that's an everyday occurrence.
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's, it's like our car industry, the only reason our car industry hasn't gone down the tubes is because the Japanese, you know, came into it and helped,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] us out.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I agree. Yeah, it's, it's, uh, there, there is, there is, it's an overall problem in, in, in this country understanding, uh, foreign cultures,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or even accepting them.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, it, it, it bites us over and over again, the, the, the,
[speaker001:] Yeah, and until we, until we start changing our educational system, I mean we're, we're going to be, we're, we've already been overtaken, but it's going to get even worse later.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I mean looks who's, looks who's getting the engineering degrees and the, the math and the science and everything.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] It's not us.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] You know, we, we've got folks running around here who get, who get degrees in basket weaving and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, underwater psychology,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] or some, some ridiculous stuff like that.
[speaker002:] Absolutely.
[speaker001:] And, and where are the engineers coming from?
[speaker002:] Uh, well, they're, they're coming from various places, and a lot of them are going back there.
[speaker001:] Yeah, exactly.
[speaker002:] That's [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] My, uh, my roommate is a, uh, he's getting his doctorate in industrial, well, it's not industrial engineering, it's human factors.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] His degree was in, uh, industrial engineering.
[speaker002:] I see.
[speaker001:] Uh, and he's from the Philippines.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And the only reason he came here was because the education is so much better for those who will go after it.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] He has no intention of going back to the Philippines because there's no jobs.
[speaker002:] Sure, okay.
[speaker001:] You know, uh, but I, I see it all too often. I mean we've got loads of foreign students
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and they're coming here, going after the hard degrees and then they're going back to Korea and Japan,
[speaker002:] Absolutely.
[speaker001:] and Hong Kong and everywhere else and they're applying it there.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] And [LAUGHTER] I don't know, it's, to me it's amazing. I don't know what we're going to do as a country. We're, we're going to become dependent on these other folks sooner or later.
[speaker002:] Yeah, bec-, you know, every, every, the, the country's got a problem with, uh, with quarterly reports and annual statements and things like that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And the long, long-range views are, are just kind of, become a thing of the past.
[speaker001:] Yeah you,
[speaker002:] And, uh,
[speaker001:] I don't, I don't think there can be anymore long range planning. I think it, it's, it's sticking your finger in the holes in the dike.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, it, oh, here's a crisis. Well, let's plug it up.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. It's far beyond me.
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's for sure. That's, that's the way things have gotten.
[speaker001:] Yeah, all we can do is keep plugging.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, I, I wonder, I, I read in the paper just last week, I B M's unveiling their new laptop computer.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well, at a price tag of six thousand bucks, I don't know if they're going to have a whole lot of takers.
[speaker002:] No, absolutely.
[speaker001:] Be-, now I have the I-, I have the I B M, P S two
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] but I'm sorry I got it.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's slow, it's, uh, there are many better machines on the market right now
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] for a, the only reason I got it is because I got it through an educational purchase plan
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] through the school
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] and I saved forty-eight percent,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] so I said, yeah, if I can have an I B M for forty-eight percent discount, I'll take it.
[speaker002:] Absolutely.
[speaker001:] But up to that point I had nev-, I had always said I would never have one because I wouldn't pay that kind of money for their name.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] But
[speaker002:] That's absolutely right, yeah.
[speaker001:] now you watch, just sure as anything, the Japanese are going to come out with a laptop at half the price
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] with more stuff on it.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah, the, the, unfortunately the way the, the way the high tech market goes, by the time you can get, get something in your hands,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] um,
[speaker001:] It's already outdated.
[speaker002:] it, it's, it's obsolete, and, uh
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] we're, we, we fight that battle every day here at work,
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, I, I can imagine.
[speaker002:] and, uh,
[speaker001:] I, uh, years ago, I remember when I had a T I ninety-nine.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Put all the money into the expansion box and all this, that and the other and, uh, things just kept changing so much and I kept getting rid of them, and I finally said, well, you can't do this [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] You've got to buy something and stick with it, so I
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] so I just, at an opportune time I got one that, that suited my needs and I've just stuck with it. The only thing I've done to it is just add a, uh, add a mouse and a hard drive.
[speaker002:] Okay, yeah.
[speaker001:] And that's all I plan to do. Of course, I'm limited on memory now because I've got the low line. I got the model twenty-five.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] So I'm stuck with six forty, but I'm not a power user so it doesn't matter.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well, that, that's, that's the key, you know, what-, whatever works for you.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, uh, if it does the job, then that's, that's what you need.
[speaker001:] Yeah, now my roomie, on the other hand, he is a power user.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] He's, he's looking now to get rid of his. He's got a three eighty-six and wants to get a four eighty-six.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] You know, this kind of stuff.