[speaker001:] actually to tell you the truth I think uh jury selection is a uh prime uh discussion topic in terms of possible improvements on uh uh finding of uh guilt
[speaker002:] hm I certainly can't argue with that definitely does need some improvements uh and the lawyers can throw people out for no reason whatsoever just because they want to
[speaker001:] yeah I think there's a limit on that the uh the uh peremptory challenges are limited to I don't know how many but you can
[speaker002:] I think it's it's four or five I can't remember which I was on a jury trial last year only I got kicked out as uh the last selection that the uh defense got
[speaker001:] hm yeah I it seems to me I'm always challenged peremptorily also when I go to these things I think I have a severe demeanor or something
[speaker002:] hm that uh
[speaker001:] uh but typically you know basically uh typically uh everyone gets involved in uh the jury process and I suppose an elitist might say well you really want someone who's well educated to be able to to winnow the facts from the from the prejudice
[speaker002:] right but it still has to be a group of your peers
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] see
[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] so if it's your peers and you're not educated
[speaker001:] so if you're a nincompoop on trial you'd you'd have to have nincompoops to uh
[speaker002:] then you want you want a nincompoop jury because they'll sympathize with you a bit
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] as well as hopefully being honest people and do their best to comply with the facts as they were presented to them so that's why the defense is there picking through them whereas at the same time the uh the prosecutors sitting there picking through them because he wants somebody who will give him uh a guilty verdict if the facts warrant
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so uh I think the jury selection process is pretty neat but I don't think that the jury ought to be the ones picking the punishment
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] afterwards I think that should be left up to people who have some knowledge in the subject and more knowledge than a jury would have I mean you're talking about the person's already been found guilty
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] right and many times I've seen on trials they have on TV the jury will make a recommendation as to leniency or as to the death penalty or whatever but I think that it should be up to the judge and the uh lawyers to make the decision as to what the actual penalty will be
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] maybe just the judge because they're the people who know what the system is and what it's all about and believe in the system
[speaker001:] um-hum hm um-hum
[speaker002:] uh and I think that would provide a more fair sentencing procedure
[speaker001:] well I suppose you may be right on that
[speaker002:] as opposed to an emotional sentencing procedure also may be a more consistent sentencing procedure
[speaker001:] as a matter of fact I've heard that I've heard that some of the information uh is prevented from reaching the jury like uh mitigating circumstances or or preceding uh criminal record or things of this nature that
[speaker002:] well preceding criminal record according to the judicial process has nothing to do with the current crime but when it comes to uh sentencing for punishment of course if the person's never done anything bad before according to the judicial system then they're going to lean towards a slightly more lenient side and the jury's supposed to be notified of criminal records when it comes to sentencing by jury
[speaker001:] oh is it oh I didn't realize that okay
[speaker002:] at least in California they're supposed to be not during the trial during the trial as to whether they're guilty or not has nothing to do with their background
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] but when it comes to what kind of sentence you're going to lay down I think that uh that they should
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] I don't I don't know that they always have because I never sat all the way through a jury trial they get too boring
[speaker001:] um-hum so you're what you're saying is if if this is the second offense then you execute them
[speaker002:] well if it's a second offense the punishment should certainly be more severe than a first offense because obviously the rehabilitation process did not work the first time
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] so you got to give them either more time in the system or a different process that'll hopefully work better uh when it comes down to things like alternative sentencing I'm all for that for uh small crimes infractions and misdemeanors or parking tickets or traffic tickets that have gone to warrant you give them the option of working off their time doing civil service sort of things
[speaker001:] what about uh white collar crimes like uh theft of trade secrets
[speaker002:] I think those ought to be punished a whole lot worse than they are
[speaker001:] oh really
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] like what
[speaker002:] well uh say embezzlement right you get a guy down the street
[speaker001:] hm
[speaker002:] who comes up uh carrying a knife