[speaker001:] okay he did where'd he decide to go
[speaker002:] um to Williams College in Massachusetts
[speaker001:] uh-huh sure I'm familiar with it
[speaker002:] and that he was he was uh trying to decide between University of Pennsylvania and Williams and it was a very difficult choice and uh
[speaker001:] and he well he must know is he interested in law or medicine he must have a definite profession in mind
[speaker002:] no but that's one of the reasons why he chose Williams that it has solid liberal arts
[speaker001:] oh okay medium size aren't they
[speaker002:] about two thousand
[speaker001:] is he excited
[speaker002:] very excited yes uh I have another son who's at their chief rival Amherst College
[speaker001:] wow I can I uh-huh while they're east coast I mean I don't know anything about their football but there you go
[speaker002:] well they're they're they're really very strong academic rather than you know big sports
[speaker001:] yeah that's where where you at
[speaker002:] we're outside of uh Washington in Maryland how about you
[speaker001:] oh okay I'm in uh suburban Dallas
[speaker002:] uh-huh do you have children in
[speaker001:] no I don't I have a husband we don't have any kids yet about all I can say is I guess about picking schools um I guess uh if you don't know what you're going to do liberal arts program is a good idea
[speaker002:] okay um well I I one of the the advises we've given our children is that you can always learn a job
[speaker001:] this is true
[speaker002:] uh but what you can't learn uh on a job is a good solid well rounded well rounded education
[speaker001:] right the humanities the history yeah
[speaker002:] that's right you know the Renaissance man and uh and if you get that you can and if you do well you can you can learn a job
[speaker001:] right right no no no yeah but they you know if they learn the job and they can go into graduate school usually a company it will if it's worth it's weight will subsidize and
[speaker002:] that's exactly right that's right so the advice we gave to them was number one visit the colleges that you're thinking about describe first of all
[speaker001:] uh-huh this this is true yeah
[speaker002:] the size school that you might be interested in
[speaker001:] and if you want to go away right
[speaker002:] do you want to go away how far from home do you want to be
[speaker001:] right
[speaker002:] what do you want in a college now my son is a national level competitive swimmer
[speaker001:] good
[speaker002:] so he wanted to swim in school but he did not want to be in a swim factory
[speaker001:] okay so he wouldn't have gone to something like where we're at they'd in Austin Texas University of Texas
[speaker002:] that's right that's the University of Texas at Austin or Stanford or something like that so he didn't even consider those
[speaker001:] right Texas Aquatics yeah okay well that's I think the other thing is too um I know I went to a uh city high school in Chicago and a lot of the kids weren't as fortunate as say my brother and I were and economics was the choice um
[speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker001:] sounds like your son has academically the standing to get into that type of school
[speaker002:] he is very very strong academically yeah so we've just but you know he had to look to see what kind of environment he liked and yet he he did wind up having to make a choice he did apply to a large you know large group
[speaker001:] uh-huh yeah University of Penn I'm originally from Pennsylvania Pennsylvania University of Pennsylvania
[speaker002:] it's got about nine thousand undergraduate
[speaker001:] yeah that's strong I mean that's you know and it's it's well it's a little bit I don't want to use the word wilder that's not the word I want um more diverse
[speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah uh yes and it but it does have the under you know that's total undergraduate with five hundred graduate school so that the uh the college of arts and sciences is you know I guess about four thousand
[speaker001:] at Williams or Pennsylvania at Williams at Pennsylvania well how large is Williams
[speaker002:] at Pennsylvania Williams is an undergraduate school only um and it's a total of two thousand
[speaker001:] right well that's not bad
[speaker002:] yeah so he knew the feeling because my other son is at Amherst which is fifteen hundred and he had visited his brother at Amherst and knew that he liked the environment but he did go on college visits and he liked
[speaker001:] which is a lot uh-huh that's the thing to do I mean I not having any children my husband was an Ohio State person and uh that has something like either the first or second largest
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] student population like fifty thousand combined community
[speaker002:] yes yes it's large and they both boys had decided no that they did not want that
[speaker001:] yeah that is too much and I mean I um I can only say it's strange your son picked those kinds of college because I spent a year at Bennington in Vermont um and that was this was twenty years ago showing my age
[speaker002:] oh it's so you uh-huh and did you ever eat at the Blue Bin Diner
[speaker001:] yes oh my God where are you from well let's not talk about that
[speaker002:] okay no but we've been there when I'm up at Williams we've gone up there
[speaker001:] it's um in that area I mean I just can't say enough about it
[speaker002:] oh it's it whatever we went and he was you know impressed by the clean air and he he met the students at both schools and he liked them
[speaker001:] well you know um my husband's an engineer and a strong liberal a strong liberal arts background with uh a graduate degree in a technical field will get him much further than say like a a strong um business administration degree than with another MBA on top of it
[speaker002:] uh-huh that's okay that's it the thing is if if a person really knows very early on that they want to go in a technical field than you're not then it's probably good to go to you know to apply to a school with a strong technical program
[speaker001:] uh-huh and they usually yeah but they usually don't
[speaker002:] but uh for if you're going into if you know engineering is the thing if then you've got to at least take engineering
[speaker001:] right but they no but who does I mean I think I think all I think the majority of people just don't know no he looked at criteria such as location size of school yeah
[speaker002:] that's right uh-huh no he didn't apply to any school further the furthest away was Bowdoin in Maine which is about twelve hours
[speaker001:] that's still pretty far though I mean a lot of kids just don't even want to go
[speaker002:] yeah that was the furthest and then Kenyon in Ohio which was about six and a half hours and Williams is about seven
[speaker001:] oh that's not too bad
[speaker002:] yeah so well I mean he so it wasn't he you know then the University of Pennsylvania is like two hours from here by train and then Bucknell in mid state Pennsylvania
[speaker001:] yeah he will enjoy Williams I think and is a good academic
[speaker002:] yeah and he knew and if it came down I mean as he came he's been talking to them and and he came down and one of the things that he said is he went to Pennsylvania this weekend and he had an absolutely marvelous time he had a great time
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] but then he said you know it was such a good time that I almost got the feeling that their emphasis is on having fun
[speaker001:] that could very well be I mean
[speaker002:] and he said it almost backfired I think it backfired
[speaker001:] so he's developing his his uh internal instincts right now that's good because I mean I'm sure what he said was true that uh you well actually that's one of the reasons I went to uh Kenyon he went he made a good choice I went I
[speaker002:] so
[speaker001:] I well swear w e're not supposed to but I spent a year in Vermont my freshman year it was just too far away it was too different uh the level of income of lot of the students and their attitudes was just um beyond my
[speaker002:] um-hum yeah well
[speaker001:] um in terms of drugs et cetera which I thought was shocking
[speaker002:] of course that period too was probably difficult to for you but I did uh my advice to him and my husband's was that
[speaker001:] right yeah you're right but then I went yeah
[speaker002:] he had to really decide what he wanted out of college he had to look at himself uh in a larger school he had to realize that if he was going to screw around it he could probably slip and it wouldn't be caught up until it was too late where in a smaller school where especially in a Kenyon or a Williams where you see the professors around town all the time you skip class in the morning and they see you
[speaker001:] uh-huh and you're going to get a little bit more input than discipline yeah
[speaker002:] that's yeah yeah and a swim coach is going to be right on top of you uh so that and he will know the professors in a small
[speaker001:] well I don't know how to put this either in this way and then it doesn't sound like your sons would need this but I just think the other thing is with the way a lot of the youth is today I think the refinement that they get I don't mean specifically etiquette or culture but just what you're saying just a solid background
[speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah
[speaker001:] because I just don't think at that age I just don't think that young people know what they want to do
[speaker002:] that's right that's right and um and it's just the personal contact where if you need help
[speaker001:] you know and um that's right
[speaker002:] he has I told him to look to yourself are you the kind of person that will go into a large college and if the professor says I've got office hours but you really don't feel that you know him because you're in a class of a hundred that you're really going to look him up but if it's a class of fifteen
[speaker001:] right right lecture yeah this is very very
[speaker002:] and you need help you know that it's much easier to do it and especially in the large schools they have lectures
[speaker001:] oh
[speaker002:] and even though they may break it up into smaller groups uh Penn is known for having
[speaker001:] they have video lectures yeah video lectures
[speaker002:] graduate assistants teaching they have graduate assistants to teach the smaller groups
[speaker001:] this is true and I mean that is very ironic too that your son just made the did he just make the decision today
[speaker002:] just a he made the decision uh I'd say about uh an hour and a half ago
[speaker001:] how funny
[speaker002:] yeah I mean that's so funny I mean and and in fact he had just an hour before that two uh recent graduates from Kenyon spent close to two hours talking with him
[speaker001:] well he'll that's funny
[speaker002:] and uh I mean and he they were really nice and but he said is that they didn't tell him anything that he didn't know but they helped confirm his decision that a smaller school was better
[speaker001:] it was easy for him to rule out he knew what he didn't want that's exactly yeah now is your other I mean we're talking about what you think but obviously you're experiencing it uh did your other son um
[speaker002:] yeah yeah right now yeah my other son is just as happy as a bed bug he the moment he knew he he decided early on that Amherst was the school he's a classical guitarist
[speaker001:] a clam oh wonderful
[speaker002:] and he decided he also got into the Yale graduate school of music as an undergraduate for classical guitar but he decided he was going to go to the um
[speaker001:] uh-huh the smaller and the
[speaker002:] the smaller now and then graduate school later
[speaker001:] and they'll do fine in their studies and I'm sure they'll go on to graduate school and
[speaker002:] well he's really my older boy's real happy and he's minoring in English and he had thought about economics and he took a couple of courses in economics and decided that wasn't
[speaker001:] and now he's a senior he's a senior or is this early admissions
[speaker002:] he'll be he's finishing his sophomore year so he's double majoring
[speaker001:] so he's so he's yeah well sounds like you have two talented sons
[speaker002:] well you know see the advice we give is to not limit yourself especially this you know go to a school where you're not forced to make too many irrevocable decisions your first year or two
[speaker001:] I think and a lot of people talk about and it's not the economics I'm solely zeroed in on but I think a lot of people think a lot of people think about the tuition level and what exactly are you getting in return
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and I think that a lot of people shy away from the smaller colleges colleges because of that and I think it's rather sad
[speaker002:] well one of the things we said is that they should pick the college this was our advice too irrespective of the cost that somehow we would manage
[speaker001:] you are wonderful parents
[speaker002:] well we place a real high priority on education in our family
[speaker001:] no and I agree I mean my husband and I in fact I'm taking my LSATs um I'm thirty something and taking my LSATs on June tenth
[speaker002:] oh good that's wonderful oh that's great
[speaker001:] um the point being and your sons will learn this from you I'm sure that uh no matter what age you are you can learn
[speaker002:] that's right that's exactly
[speaker001:] and it sounds like they're going to you know they're just