[speaker001:] Okay. So, uh, what do you think about it?
[speaker002:] Well, um, I guess I, I'm more concerned about public safety than I am about the, um, the concern for the private, uh, the idea of,
[speaker001:] Privacy.
[speaker002:] preserving privacy for,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] the individual, um, because I can't really see why anyone, um, who has nothing to hide would object.
[speaker001:] Well, there is always the, uh, the possibility, even remote as it is, of, uh, of mistaken, uh, of,
[speaker002:] That's, of course, that is certainly true,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] yeah.
[speaker001:] And see that bothers me. I'm, I'm a, I mean, I'm, I'm very much for drug testing,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, I really am. I mean, I'm going, I'm going to take the negative side just for a second,
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] just to do it. Um, see, I have to take, uh, medication for a, uh, for, for kidney transplant.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I'm going to be taking that the rest of my life. Now, you,
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] I don't know how that's going to affect, uh,
[speaker002:] If you had to have a drug test?
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean I haven't had one yet. Um, T I, I work for Texas Instruments
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, and, uh, we, you know, we do have the random drug testing but I've missed it so far. But I mean, it, in the back of my mind, it always bothers me. And what happens if it, you know, if it, if they catch it, they think that I'm, you know, I'm on drugs and they send me and, and have me, uh, you know, go through this, this,
[speaker002:] Checked out or whatever.
[speaker001:] thing, you know, yeah.
[speaker002:] But it seems to me that there are ways to accommodate that. Um, I agree that, that some innocent person might be victimized,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] by a false test, but I would think that, um, that some guidelines could be set up to avoid that. For example, that one, uh, positive would not be, uh, accepted as an automatic, um, reason for whatever they might be going,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] to do if they found a positive, uh, dismissal or treatment or whatever, but that, that what it would do is it would trigger, perhaps, uh, one or two more stages where further tests could be ta-, uh, done.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Because, um, there are, there must be people like you, or in other circumstances, that could come up with, with, uh, false positives for certain kind of drugs. On the other hand, um, I think there's certainly some professions that ought to be tested
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] because of the, of their responsibility for the public welfare, and certainly people in, uh, industries, well, the transportation industry,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] for spe-, uh, you know, specifically.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] But, um, in many, many cases whether or not an individual has a problem with drugs, it's not even going to effect anybody but his, uh, you know, himself and his own family, perhaps, um, depending on the kind of drug he might be on.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] But, um, and eventually that's going to show up anyway in the way he works,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and so on. But there's so many things that it would make a difference. I guess I, I, uh, I would not want to have anyone in my family, uh, victimized by someone who, you know, a, a bus driver or a train engineer or something like that, who, um, you know, hadn't been tested.
[speaker001:] Right. Well, I, you know, I'm, like I said, I'm, I'm very much pro testing, um, and, and this is why.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh, number one is I, I'm, I'm kind of, I know this sounds like a slogan for the government, but I, you know, we are in a war against,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] drugs. I mean
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] it's, it's horrible. I mean, you don't know whether the person sitting next to you
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] anywhere is on drugs or not,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and it takes some drastic steps at this point. And I think, personally, the drastic step has to be that, um, that you can't work if you continue taking drugs.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, it's as simple as that. I mean, make it so,
[speaker002:] Make it difficult enough.
[speaker001:] Well, make it, uh, ma-, not necessarily difficult, but make it so that it's not glamorous.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, it's glamorous taking drugs, or at least it seems that way.
[speaker002:] Yeah, according to what you,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you hear. The people who, um, have serious problems, I mean, we have, um, really I guess we're kind of lucky. We really only know of one, uh, young man who, uh, who's a fam-, they go to our church,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and it's the son and so on, and he was friends with my children [swallowing] um, and he's really the only one that I know of personally who got himself really messed up, um, ha-, having been involved with drugs. But I know of a number of other people who have, you know, gotten all messed up.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Most of these are young people. I work in the education system and so I have a little more contact with that. But, um, the effect that it's had on this young man's life is so dramatic that it's heartbreaking
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and he may never really be a productive member of society. But sadder than that, he may never be able to have a normal, happy life because it has strung him out so that he has anxieties now that are, are almost uncontrollable. I mean, he, he puts himself in the hospital fairly regularly thinking that, you know, he, he's not sure if he's going try to commit suicide or not.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] I mean, he's, you know, he's so messed up.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And, um, this was a nice, sweet, young man who, teenager, you know, and he's now a young man about twenty, I guess, who, um, just got really down the wrong path.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And, uh, you know, I don't know that, that his problem would ever have been detected by drug testing. But seeing what drugs did to him makes me see, makes me realize what it could do to people, you know, in the work force as well.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Um, it's horrible.
[speaker001:] Well, then, let's, let's answer the second half of the question. What limits ought to be put on it, do you think?
[speaker002:] Well, the limits, uh, uh, would, I think, have to do with what I'd alluded to before, that there needs to be a further, um, that, that one positive on a drug test,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] would not constitute, uh, dismissal or grounds for whatever the company or agency might, uh, have set up for those who genuinely have a problem.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] In other words, there needs to be, um, more than,
[speaker001:] Treatment before for dismissal type thing.
[speaker002:] Pard-, yes, right,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] there needs to be more than one test, and there needs to be some, some measure of, uh, certainty before anything drastic happens.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] There are lots of things that are involved there, um, such as, perhaps, insurance
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] uh, you know, denial of insurance for someone, um, and undoubtedly there are people who would be victimized by this, um, that would, that, you know, it would be unfair, and people who are on medication, for example, or, um, even people who might be of the gay community, and I'm not an advocate for that particular [LAUGHTER] segment of society, but, um, I think that there doesn't need to be fuel to the fire for discrimination
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] because it makes a bigger problem. Um, so it seems to me that, that, um, there needs to be some ground, you know, some rules
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] that protect. I'm not sure, though, when we talk about what rules, if any, that we should say, well, certain segments should not have to be tested. I really don't see why,
[speaker001:] Personally, I think that's what I was about to say
[speaker002:] And, yeah.
[speaker001:] is that everyone needs to be tested.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I don't,
[speaker001:] It, you know,
[speaker002:] I don't know why it would be, you know, uh, bad to test just every-, and it may be, you know, it's not feasible to do everyone, but certainly random testing, the fact that people know that, that they,
[speaker001:] That it could happen.
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] would be some measure of protection. But the bottom line is that, that if, if you're going to stay clean and straight, [LAUGHTER] then, um, you're, you're going to do that because you want to.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Really.
[speaker001:] Well, there's, yeah, there, there's going to be some measure of incentive, uh, reward or whatever, but the reward ultimately comes down to what you want.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So I, I've got to agree with that.
[speaker002:] [Cough].
[speaker001:] So, um,
[speaker002:] That's very true.
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] Well, it sounds like we agree, anyway.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think so.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I think we, I think we did pretty good.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Well, all right, well, uh, I guess that's about it.
[speaker002:] I guess if that's all we've done and I guess we've talked long enough.
[speaker001:] All right.
[speaker002:] It was nice talking to you.
[speaker001:] It was, it was talk, nice talking to you, too.
[speaker002:] Okay, bye-bye.
[speaker001:] All right, bye-bye.