[speaker001:] Well, how do you feel about trial by jury?
[speaker002:] I feel very uncomfortable with trials by juries recently. Uh,
[speaker001:] In what way?
[speaker002:] In that it seems to me that they are swayed more by emotion than, uh, by evidence that's presented. I have, uh, very little regard for the law [LAUGHTER],
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] presently practiced.
[speaker001:] Oh, do, do you feel they are swayed more toward, are you talking about with criminal or civil suits?
[speaker002:] I was thinking primarily criminal cases.
[speaker001:] So, do you think that, I mean the the stereotypical bleeding heart juries
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] where they feel sorry.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. That's a concern of mine. Uh, I would feel more comfortable in many cases I think with judges. Uh, you know, doing the sentencing.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. [very faint] The other thing, the only thing that really bothers me about that is I think you know, that a judge can be [NOISE] I, I like the idea of juries of your peers
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] uh, in that you, you, you get more personally more than one person making the, making a decision. And second of all, you get a wide variety of background so that,
[speaker002:] Yeah, my question I guess are they really your peers?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. I'd
[speaker002:] Uh [very faint],
[speaker001:] agree with that. That's definitely a problem.
[speaker002:] Uh, too often I think they are not
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and, uh, when you, when you are selecting a jury and you are doing it partially if, if not entirely on the basis of which color representation you have
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know that is a matter of concern to me too. Uh, I think that, uh, in such cases, uh, they are not really looking for unbiased people, but rather for biased.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, now I happen to know several judges and there is one that I would feel uncomfortable but has me-, doing sentencing without the jury [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I would feel a little bit uneasy about
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but the other two I feel, uh, would give either you know, the plaintiff or for the defendant the the full benefit of the law.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And I guess that's what I am concerned with.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. I, guess I, I definitely agree with you, but sin-, the well, what I don't like about, uh, sentence, the jury doing the sentencing
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] in that I think it becomes a lot less, the, the same crime gets unequal sentences.
[speaker002:] This is very true.
[speaker001:] I, uh, I think there is more of an ability of you know, you know for selecting a jury, two different juries that would most of the time come up with the same idea, uh, the same idea versus you know whether he is guilty
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] or innocent
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] but, I think, I think there would be a large variation in, in trying to gage the the severity of the crime and an appropriate punishment and have that that measure stick across the board.
[speaker002:] Yeah and you do see such uneven sentencing
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, evidence of it in the newspapers and such, I mean
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] where, uh, it would appear the crimes were very similar but one individual got twenty-five years and the other one was sentenced to life. So,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh,
[speaker001:] Of course a lot of that's also the ability of, of the defendant to, uh, get a good lawyer.
[speaker002:] Isn't that the truth [LAUGHTER]?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] There are times when is it, uh, {F oh goodness, my mind has gone blank } it's, uh, Othello. You know where he says kill all the lawyers [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Every now and then one is tempted to see what, what.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I agree [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] But, I, it's taken me a long time to understand that, uh, lawyers are concerned with the law and not with justice
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] as we think of, you know, as, as
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [NOISE].
[speaker002:] novices tend to think that, uh, attorneys care about justice.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, I, I agree with it yeah. They will admit to you that they can-, don't have the benefit of being able to you know, of, of, letting, allowing themselves to believe their clients that are guilty
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it's more of the game plan of how do they convince the judge or jury through argument.
[speaker002:] And
[speaker001:] That the [very faint],
[speaker002:] they are very effective too.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, even, I have been involved, uh, just sli-, slightly in a case where I know the person is guilty
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] but, uh, his attorneys gotten him off.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, the city has dropped their charges against him because their, the attorney has presented enough evidence of doubt to convince the judge. So I don't know [LAUGHTER] [NOISE].
[speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, this is a little bit of the subject, but one, one thing that I really dislike, uh, also that's, that's new is the, uh, is that I have heard that there are federal sentences,