[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] well you can start
[speaker001:] uh I can start
[speaker002:] the
[speaker001:] notion of a of of universal service sometimes sounds real good but I I sometimes wonder whether it's if people aren't willing to do it do anything like that on their own and I guess it would have to be really and truly universal and then I think you start running into all sorts of people's religious objections and you know and and how do you make allowances for everybody's culture if you try to force fit everybody into things and yeah I just I the logistics of it just seem horrendous in a country is
[speaker002:] yeah I I frankly can't go along with the idea only because it's the same kind of thing that you see in countries like Cuba and uh other places where you're supposedly for the good of society you're to volunteer and help out and and do something very nicely for everyone and the problem comes into play in that if the people aren't interested in what they're volunteering for and they're not getting paid there's no incentive whatsoever and really you in in any group that depends on volunteers say uh the American Red Cross and something uh those kind of groups you can actually you could actually become a hindrance to the group if you aren't really interested and you're just there because you have to
[speaker001:] in what you're doing yeah yeah it it I don't know on the other hand there are other countries like Switzerland and Israel and France that have universal service
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh you know which are democracies uh I don't know about France I know that Switzerland and Israel though are somewhat more homogeneous homogeneous
[speaker002:] oh yeah certainly I mean there's especially especially in Israel there's a particular the cause for the good of the nation especially when it's on the defensive and the region really inspires people to help out for the good of the country but we have
[speaker001:] yeah well but they still have a universal well uh close to universal draft uh and they still run into
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] to problems there are some people who feel that women should not have to take orders from men because it leads to morality problems and I just think that you'd run into people who felt that way here not only uh peoples of a very strict Jewish cast but also I think that a lot of the fundamentalists would have problems with their daughters being under the
[speaker002:] um um
[speaker001:] you know having to take orders from a man and who knows what and uh you know I just so I I you get you get really torn on the other hand one of my one of my favorite science fiction books is a book by uh Robert Heinlien yeah uh called Starship Trooper or something and he talks about you had to serve the country in order to have the right to vote
[speaker002:] sure
[speaker001:] in other words you had to first show that it meant something to you in order to to have the right to say what ought to happen uh and so that you you know I'm sort of torn that idea makes a whole lot of sense too people who are just along for the ride why should they say how my money should be spent and why should they say what I ought to do
[speaker002:] well there should be some tangible benefit uh if if you really want to get into something where you want to have a full participation and have it work well is to have something where they select the programs or whatever that they wish to participate in and give them some tangible benefit for doing so to inspire uh more involvement on their part
[speaker001:] yeah right
[speaker002:] in the and that's the way I think you really over take over this problem or get rid of the problem of them you know conscientious objection or what have you if you give them the option of selecting what it is that they want to do I
[speaker001:] right right and and that's that'd be kind of an interesting way of doing it I think if you're going to do something like that because it instead of voting for a representative who votes for laws or whatever you vote by what you're willing to participate in
[speaker002:] yeah I I think it has a lot of potential but I don't think that we're going to ever see something like that get through in this country because of the
[speaker001:] yes but I can't get one right now no probably not
[speaker002:] mismatch of political nonsense that goes on in Washington
[speaker001:] yeah well and and the other thing is such for it to to truly be help