[speaker001:] I don't think anybody pays too little.
[speaker002:] No, I would tend to agree very highly. I think that we're all paying a little bit too much taxes and not seeing too much good come out of it.
[speaker001:] Do you get hit up for local taxes there?
[speaker002:] Yeah, we sure do. Here in Indiana we pay, uh, we pay county income tax, state income tax, we pay five percent sales tax, uh, you name it, they tax it.
[speaker001:] Oh, so y-, y-, you get the whole smorgasbord.
[speaker002:] That's right we,
[speaker001:] Well, I, I actually live in New Hampshire
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] tax free or die.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Which is probably pretty nice, but I'll bet that means your state sales tax is pretty high.
[speaker001:] No, actually there's no sales tax in New Hampshire either.
[speaker002:] There's no [LAUGHTER] sales tax either?
[speaker001:] No, what there is, is very high property taxes because that's how they fund schools and everything.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] The only problem is I work in Massachusetts, so they
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] they hit me up for the five percent there.
[speaker002:] Taxachusetts
[speaker001:] Yep, but, it, well, you know, we, it's only a state tax here, no local.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We've got a five percent sales tax.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But, uh, the problem is that so I'm paying state tax even if I don't live here.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But, at least on things like stock options and things like that, they don't tax me.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] So that's not too bad.
[speaker002:] No, I, uh, I really think that, here in Indiana at least we pay a, a whole, uh, just too much tax. I worked in a factory, uh, last summer and, on the average, I was losing twenty percent of every paycheck to taxes and I don't feel that I really get a whole lot of return from that. I mean, I don't utilize all, you know, it really, any government welfare services. Of course, I drive on the roads and I, you know, went to the schools and stuff, but I really feel that, that I'm just getting overtaxed.
[speaker001:] Oh, I, I mean, I, I'd consider twenty percent lucky because just on, I mean, you know, when you figure out just on feds, you know, I actually hit the thirty-one bracket
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] this year, which was no fun.
[speaker002:] No that's,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] that's not any fun.
[speaker001:] Right, and also, you know, then you figure out seven or eight percent for F I C A
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] which is taxes
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] where you, most people forget about them, because you've g-, you know, you can't always get your F I C A back at the end of the year.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But, so, you know, and then, you know, like a five percent surtax, I'm paying forty percent tax.
[speaker002:] Yeah, which is just outrageous and a lot of it, and if you look at the way the government is run these days, it just seems like a lot of it's going to waste.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, I, I mean, I think there's some people, there, y-, certainly are some things where you need infrastructure and you need
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you n-, you know, there are things government does better, you know, I think government does a better space program
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] than you're going to get out of private individuals, but, you know, I think, you know, you look at things like, you know, tax subsidies to tobacco farmers
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] because Jesse Helms wants it that way or,
[speaker002:] That's right, got to keep those farmers happy.
[speaker001:] You know, and, and just tremendous amounts of, you know, so much of it, is now just going to service debt or
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, is going in, into, into programs that, you know, yeah, they are, they are a fat. You know, I think the military is really fat. I think that a lot of the, the H E W services, although they're providing necessary services, have too much fat in them.
[speaker002:] Right. The-, there is just way too much bureaucracy and so much of that tax money is going just to keep that bureaucracy running, keep the paper shuffling around
[speaker001:] You know, like we,
[speaker002:] instead of real, you know, good programs.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, we, we spend a fortune for things like V A hospitals and, you know, then you look at how well they're managed, you know, I don't think we're getting our money's work out, worth out of there. I think it's all going into, into bureaucrats.
[speaker002:] Right, and a lot of it's feeding that. Just, I just, I really, especially in the election year, I mean, I'm really thinking a lot [LAUGHTER] about this, the economy and questions like that and, and just the whole, it seems like everything is really screwy right now as far as the economy, uh, the government goes and our, our whole economy in general and our taxes just are going to keep rising no matter what happens and especially when you've got the Bush administration who has increased government expenditures, uh, beyond what any other President since World War Two has done and yet
[speaker001:] Well, be-,
[speaker002:] he supposedly,
[speaker001:] between him and Reagan, yeah.
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER], right, yeah.
[speaker001:] The great communicator,
[speaker002:] I mean, I just read something that, two thirds or three quarters, I'm not exactly sure of our national [inhaling] debt are, was created during the Reagan Bush era
[speaker001:] Oh, oh, yeah, they think,
[speaker002:] who are suppo-, supposedly fiscally conservative.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah, and then they go and say, I'm not c-, Congress, they're the fault for it.
[speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, you know, the other thing is, it's tricky, though, because like in New Hampshire, they say, oh, all right, let's cut the military budget.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Well, yeah, then, you lose half your jobs in New Hampshire
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you lose, Grotten Connecticut goes, so, you know, it's like, you know, it's very tricky to balance that stuff off, because then you hurt, you know, if the, if the, if people lose their jobs, then they become a load and they're not contributing taxes.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] So, you know, it's, it's very hard to say, you know, this is what we should cut.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's really, that is the, especially that defense, cuts in the defense is really a Catch twenty-two
[speaker001:] .
[speaker002:] double whammy, because like you say, if you cut defense, well, that's great, that's going to lower our national expenditures, but then you're going to have people on welfare and they're not
[speaker001:] Who aren't contributing.
[speaker002:] putting taxes in.
[speaker001:] Right, yeah.
[speaker002:] So that's, that's really, it's,
[speaker001:] And, uh, in our,
[speaker002:] I'm glad I'm not the one who has to come up with these policies.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But, what's very funny is in our town meeting they were v-, th-, this, this guy had, both for our school district meeting and our town meeting had this proposal which, unfortunately violates New Hampshire constitution
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] d-, for our local town to do it to, uh, have you, have people line item their taxes.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] They say I want to pay for this and this and this and this and this. Course, the only problem with that is then nobody paying for the necessary services they don't use.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Yeah.