[speaker001:] You want to go first? [chiming].
[speaker002:] [Static] No, you can start [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Okay. Uh, one of the things they talked about was, uh, did we, d-, wh-, what do we think about a judge making the decision?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And I really don't agree with that [swallowing]. I think that the trial by jury is better, uh, you know, than e-, having a [chiming] unanimous decision rather than to have one person be responsible. I don't think that they could be objective in every case, every time.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yo-, you know what I mean?
[speaker002:] Right. There's, there, th-, this topic is kind of mute. Uh
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] there, there's no way. We, we couldn't survive in a sy-, in a juror syst-, in a trial system without a jury.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Uh, one man can never be, one man, one woman can never be objectionable in every case.
[speaker001:] That's it.
[speaker002:] Uh, every person has their opinions and that's why jury selection is often very difficult. Uh.
[speaker001:] Well, I, I feel the other thing too, uh, they were saying, uh, you know, what new ways could y-, could it, you, you know, change the system. I, I really think that, uh, we spend a lot of time, uh, going through appeal after appeal after appeal after appeal,
[speaker002:] [Noise] [sounds like something is being sliced].
[speaker001:] I mean, i-, if you go to a trial by jury and especially if a person has confessed. If they have been caught, you know, point blank in the crime.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] There's, uh, no question it's beyond a reasonable doubt. You know, all these things. I mean, you know,
[speaker002:] [Meow].
[speaker001:] we've gone through this over and over again.
[speaker002:] Right. They shouldn't allow an appeal.
[speaker001:] And it can go on for ten, twenty,
[speaker002:] [Meow].
[speaker001:] years.
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker001:] I, I think this is a little ridiculous.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [Swallowing] I think the only people who benefit from that are the lawyers.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's right. I work for a law firm [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I, I'm serious. And I think that the lawyers have caused a lot of the problems tha-, that exist in the s-, in the criminal system today. With plea bargaining.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] You know, if someone is ill,
[speaker002:] Well plea bar-, plea bargaining is a different story.
[speaker001:] Well.
[speaker002:] Plea bargaining is something completely different. That, that actually prevents trials. Or at least speeds them up.
[speaker001:] Well, I know. That's what I'm saying. But I think a lot of, all of the whole criminal system is messed up in, in that regard. I mean, you know, people who commit, uh, crimes that they, I don't know how it works exactly but
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] you know, they get lesser sentences and I understand that the jails are full of people, you know, uh
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] and that they have to do something. But, I think that the reason they are full is because they know that they can get away with it.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Yo-, you know what I'm saying? That w-, we don't have, uh, well a lot of states don't have capital punishment.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And, uh
[speaker002:] We do [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I, I think they should. I, and I think if a person is guilty of taking someone's life and like you say, it's, it's, there's no doubt whatsoever. Like drunk drivers that kill people and, uh, you know, all
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] they, they're caught dead to rights. I, I just think that that's, they've, they've taken a life and if, they should pay for it with their life.
[speaker002:] Right. When you're saying as far as the appeal, uh, procedure was concerned.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [Inhaling] We just have the case, I'm, I'm sure you've probably heard of Marion Berry.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, his f-, last appeal was, was denied two days before his sentence was up [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Oh, really.
[speaker002:] So, I mean, his appeal was denied and two days later he got out of jail [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] It, uh, [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] For cocaine possession.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But, uh, [clicking] [swallowing] that was absurd [LAUGHTER]. There is never, there was no reason
[speaker001:] I know that, that.
[speaker002:] the appeal process should have dragged on that long for a six month sentence.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. And, I don't know. Uh, what would you do to change it? To make it better?
[speaker002:] Well, uh, the, the only I can, I wa-, you know, the, appeal procedure is the only thing I can possibly think of. Uh, a-, like I said, as far as removing of the jury and having the judge sentence, that's absurd. There's no way that could work.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah. I, I, I don't agree with that at all.
[speaker002:] Uh, but,
[speaker001:] Imagine the guilt that person would have. I mean
[speaker002:] Oh, exactly.
[speaker001:] burned out. There's
[speaker002:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] there's no possible way that you could, uh, you know, feel good about yourself.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] If you had to do something like that, day after day.
[speaker002:] No one would want the job [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] No. Not really.
[speaker002:] [Thumping] Uh, [lipsmack] and, you know, like I said, the, you know, everyone has their opinions about every case.
[speaker001:] [Rustling] Well, w-, do you think people should have a trial is they're caught dead to rights like,
[speaker002:] Oh yeah. I, I feel that everyone is, everyone is, uh, entitled to a trial by jury. That, that, that right s-,
[speaker001:] I mean, supposing I come up to you and I just point blank kill you.
[speaker002:] Well, I mean, were there witnesses?
[speaker001:] In other words you're saying that, w-, you have to find out whether it's premeditated or
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] what the circumstances were.
[speaker002:] Right. That you can't, you can't remove the jury regardless of the case.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean you could have fifty people in audience watching [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] a murder take place and you, you'd still, there's still mitigating circumstances [static].
[speaker001:] Well, I, I,