[speaker001:] so um you know my feeling is that uh it's really being used today it it you know it it really isn't doing any real good purpose for anything because it's not cost effective because of the amount of time the people end up waiting on appeal
[speaker002:] right I think I've seen some statistics that say that uh it's more expensive to kill somebody than to keep them in prison for life
[speaker001:] right because you you you've got all all the prison expenses plus all the legal expenses
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] um and you know it certainly doesn't seem to be a deterrent um for one thing because it's used so infrequently and for another thing because I honestly don't think the people that are committing the crimes crimes that would be eligible you know really care
[speaker002:] well that's committing them mostly is you know either crimes of passion or at the moment or they think they're not going to get caught or
[speaker001:] right I mean it's kind of like the AIDS phenomenon you know I'm invulnerable I don't need to care about this you know I I I'm never gonna get caught
[speaker002:] yeah but yeah but you also have to think whether it's worthwhile on the individual basis for example someone like uh Jeffrey Dahmer do you want by putting him in prison for life there is still a possibility that he will get out again
[speaker001:] yeah one one way or another
[speaker002:] whereas if you kill him there is not that possibility
[speaker001:] yeah but but the other side to that is if you put him in prison for life there's a chance that he might do things in prison or you know and somehow redeem himself
[speaker002:] yeah I don't think he could ever redeem himself but in some cases yes
[speaker001:] well you you know so that you know the the question is you know the other question problem with capital punishment you run into is what are you gonna do about people who are later found to have been innocent you know there are cases where you know twenty thirty years after the fact they're getting evidence
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] especially as new technology comes along that might prove their innocence and then oops I'm sorry I guess we killed the wrong guy
[speaker002:] yeah it's it's yeah once you've made a decision that way it's a little difficult to go back on it
[speaker001:] right you you can apologize nicely but you know you know I think you know the the price you know it I've heard quotes you know it's better that a thousand people go free than one person be unjustly imprisoned I think it is really the the philosophy of the way our legal system works
[speaker002:] oh yeah yeah it's all the benefit of the doubt to the last iota is uh based on the uh person who is accused
[speaker001:] yeah and you know the I I think that you know and the way it's being used now it's like you listen to Bush's you know well where are we gonna impose drug you know it's like for drug dealers is the new big thing like in Tsongas is also saying you know capital make it a capital crime to be a major drug dealer
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and again I don't think these people care they risk their lives everyday
[speaker002:] yeah that there there they see that the profit margin of drug dealers the profit margin's so high that yeah the the risk is almost not there
[speaker001:] yeah and and you know uh especially you know I live in in Massachusetts you know we're we're we're gonna get capital punishment here probably after the second coming or something
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] so you know but you look at our our crime rates and things like that and you compare them to to like Texas or someplace that does you know it it it's impossible to make a case that it's it's affecting it in any way I think it's mainly people like they get the vengeance of it
[speaker002:] yeah well it's also I used to live in Georgia and you know the the big thing down there was all right we have capital punishment
[speaker001:] because you know
[speaker002:] but if you look at who gets accused and who are the ones who actually get executed it's very racially related and ethnically related
[speaker001:] oh yeah it's mainly lot of blacks also a lot of young people you know your a a a sixty two year old guy is less likely to be put on death row from what I've seen
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and you know I I think when you listen to like the uh the the victims' families and things they're always talking about you know uh feeling justified or feeling you know like they've gotten something out of it I mean my thought has been once the guy has been imprisoned if he goes to jail forever or whatever or if he gets killed it shouldn't make any difference to the uh to the victim's family the only thing that should really I mean obviously if someone of mine who was close died I'd probably feel differently but
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] you know the you know what the important thing is that they be caught and not be a danger to society
[speaker002:] right and that and you know also by keeping them in prison you do have the possibility though we don't currently do this of making restitution
[speaker001:] right I mean the
[speaker002:] you you will work your prison job and any money you earn will go to the victim's family
[speaker001:] right and the the other thing is that you know I was reading through a book on uh genome human genome research and now more and more things like schizophrenia
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and what if it just turned out to be genetic or biochemical in origin so if someday we can go to Jeff Dahmer and say well the problem is you you've got an endorphin imbalance and you know if you take this regularly you'll be a sane and productive member of society
[speaker002:] right uh-huh
[speaker001:] you know you really get back to the question of you know is someone responsible for their actions
[speaker002:] yeah well I I think on some of it you have to say someone's responsible for his actions I never like the uh
[speaker001:] society made me do it yeah
[speaker002:] the defense that well I never liked the uh insanity defense