[speaker001:] what kind of coins do you primarily collect
[speaker002:] um basically I my preference is Arab coins
[speaker001:] hum
[speaker002:] and ancient coins
[speaker001:] hum I've got a uh I've got a few I don't know I don't know I don't even know if they're real but they seem to be very old Greek or Roman coins that somebody gave me as I when I was a kid never done anything with them I still got still got them in a box
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] I'm mostly into uh  American gold and silver dollars and stuff like that
[speaker002:] oh very interesting um over the years of course by uh my grandparents used to give me silver dollars so I've got a few of those tucked away but
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] um your Greek and Roman coins might you know if if they're um in good condition might be worth something you might want to drag them out and
[speaker001:] I keep meaning to do that everytime I go to a show I keep saying well I'll take them with me and let somebody look at them they just they just feel phony you know they feel like they're made of lead or something and uh they don't have any sort of it's it's got a it's got a like a picture on it
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] but there's no uh inscriptions or or dates or anything else
[speaker002:] that would be the Greek ones
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] okay because I think most the Roman ones have
[speaker001:] had something on them
[speaker002:] right right so this
[speaker001:] yeah it had a it had a had a has a bust of somebody on there but uh no sort of identifying marks or anything
[speaker002:] um-hum um it the are they silver or
[speaker001:] no I don't no they're not they're it's it's too heavy for silver it's it's more like lead I think fairly soft
[speaker002:] bronze oh interesting
[speaker001:] yeah I think they're fakes
[speaker002:] did did somebody go over to the Middle East where they could have picked up some fakes pretty easily
[speaker001:] probably I don't know where they got them from they just came up gave me a whole bag of these things
[speaker002:] oh um-hum
[speaker001:] it's probably about thirty or forty of them in there
[speaker002:] gee that's
[speaker001:] yeah they
[speaker002:] you might be sitting on a gold mine
[speaker001:] wouldn't that be something
[speaker002:] right um I don't know a lot about um Greek and Roman although I'm a member of an organization and that is the the primary interest of some ancient uh Numismatic Society Club
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] and so most of the people collect Roman with a few collecting Greek so every now and then we have a program so I've picked up a bit
[speaker001:] hum
[speaker002:] but um if it if they're really soft and very early they could be uh I think they call them Lydian coins
[speaker001:] huh
[speaker002:] and um
[speaker001:] gosh all these years I've been thinking they were fakes maybe they're real
[speaker002:] right I don't uh you know I I guess they say that a lot of people in the in the Middle East particularly can pick up fakes
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] you know if you go to um uh a fight and then the people say oh look what I just dug out of the ground and they sell you something they made last night
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but um I think that's fairly recent phenomena probably
[speaker001:] sounds like some of the coin dealers I know
[speaker002:] now now they're supposed to they're supposed to be licensed and the um above board
[speaker001:] right I used to be a coin dealer so I I I know I know those guys you know
[speaker002:] oh I see oh and you made your own
[speaker001:] yeah I got a whole roll of Krugerrands here would you like to buy I just made them last night here's a nice uh twenty dollar gold eagle uh just just manufactured in Lebanon last year
[speaker002:] was uh was the gold worth I mean was it really gold
[speaker001:] yeah that they they are gold they're just of course the the twenty dollar gold pieces go for coin value not the bullion value
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and amazingly enough you're you're into Middle Eastern sort of coins the the largest amount of fakes of US gold is made in Lebanon
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] is that uh still still true
[speaker001:] yeah still is
[speaker002:] wow
[speaker001:] yeah that's sort of like a cottage industry industry over there
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh and and there's some very specific things you can find you can even narrow narrow it down to where it was made I mean people are so aware of these things that there are certain identifying marks on there that would not be on a real one and uh you you can almost tell the area somebody probably even knows the guy who made them
[speaker002:] you mean make oh I suppose he he has to protect himself too so that somebody can't say you know when he's selling them that somebody else made it I mean it's so that he gets his own profits
[speaker001:] yeah well the yeah coin dealers are supposed to be smart enough not to fall for that gimmick but I I have seen a few of them sell these things and course you have to you have to be able to prove they they knew it was counterfeit and that's always very difficult
[speaker002:] hum oh I see otherwise the the buyer is responsible I mean responsible
[speaker001:] well he can he can usually go back to the dealer but if if it's an unscrupulous dealer he'll just say hey you know you you had an opportunity to see it you know it's yours course you can always turn around and sell it in court and but you'd have to go in on a fraud count and that wouldn't
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] fraud is very difficult to prove
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] because you have to you have to show they knowingly did it
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and that's all he's got to say is well in my in my professional judgment it was a it was a real coin
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] so you know it's his word against mine
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] that's one of the reasons I got out of the business there was too many shenanigans going on
[speaker002:] oh that's interesting because I'm more interested in the research and I'm doing some dye link analyses of of these early coins from the six and seven hundreds and so and so I'm not into the the buying and selling business
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] um it sounds like I'm wise
[speaker001:] yes yeah nowadays the the the way the uh the market is and the and the way the uh grading systems have changed over the last few years that's primarily what got me out of it they they kept changing the grading systems on coins and you know you go out and buy a very nice silver dollar collection and you've graded it at the current grade and then the next year they've changed the grading system and now these things are worth a fourth of what you paid for them you know it's just it it just got it just got ludicrous after a while
[speaker002:] oh um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] uh what what what the the standards for for an uncirculated silver dollar changed so many times in three years and a lot of people lost lots of money on that course the the persistent dealers will just sit there if they graded them as M S sixty five then by golly they're M S sixty five I don't care what you say
[speaker002:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker001:] and they'll keep them until some fool comes along and buys them
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] at inflated prices
[speaker002:] um-hum I think that's that's the the hardest thing is that people who don't really know feel sometimes a sometimes for example I know um you know the ancients better but because it's old they figure it's got to cost you know thousands of dollars
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah I mean it's really it's it silly I mean I I I used to have people walk into my shop with um Indian head pennies you know
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and they say wow you know this is really old yeah well it's not worth anything I'll give you a nickel for it you know
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and even even some of the rare coins that a lot of people have never even seen like um like two cent pieces
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] and things like that those are not those are not even expensive I mean you can pick up very nice ones for eight nine dollars
[speaker002:] oh really I didn't know that
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah they're cheap they're super cheap um
[speaker002:] oh that
[speaker001:] several I mean it's it's it it's funny the way the business works because there're so many things that are enormously out priced
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] um some some later proof sets because they have a slight error in them are are worth hundreds of dollars you know and and the coins themselves aren't worth very much at all face value basically
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh and then of course the silver coins are more and more being traded for bullion than anything else
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh you can you can buy bags of silver coins a a bag has a thousand dollars face value in it and it's traded for silver
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] so basically if if someone isn't really interested in the coins it's not some an investment
[speaker001:] no it's it's more of a uh it's a commodity purchase really
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh it is fun though to buy these bags and go through them because you do find some some uh nice coins I mean people who are starting out collections and need to fill holes in their books can fill a whole bunch of them with these uh with these bags
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh especially you you want to get a mixed bag of course dimes quarters and halves
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh but you could fill a whole bunch of uh holes with these things I used to I used to advertise buying wheat pennies um I'd give a dollar a roll which two cents a piece which is basically overpriced
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] um but I used to go through I I'd get loads and loads of these things I ended up one time with about uh about about twelve bags of these things and I'd gone through all of them and I found a couple of them I found a nineteen O nine VDB
[speaker002:] oh
[speaker001:] and uh a um a nineteen eleven which is fairly scarce I found several good ones out of there
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] people's giving it to me for two cents I uh that's okay
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] turn around and sell it for fifteen dollars