[speaker001:] Jonathan um it seems to me that most people rather make a decision between going all out particularly males go all out on the career or they go or they spend some real quality time with their kids when their when their kids are still young and and are willing to spend time with the parents what do you think about that
[speaker002:] um-hum uh yeah that's an interesting point I work in uh the computer business which tends to be pretty high pressure and time consuming and I work with a lot of guys who are just now having first and second kids and it's interesting to see how they handle it because in a lot of cases they're still trying to put in the hours but they're also trying to spend a lot of time at home and in many cases they've got spouses who work so it's it's an interesting juggling pattern I my impression is that people try to uh to do both if they can as tough as that is
[speaker001:] do you think it's possible
[speaker002:] uh boy that's a good question I've my kids are eight and a half and six now and I've been working in this business you know while they were growing up and you know it's it's tough uh there have been plenty of times where I've had to work long hours so that you know during a particular week I might not see them as much as I wanted to
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] but I I do sense that people's expectations today are often different than they were maybe in my parent's generation where you know child raising was kind of seen as the the woman's responsibility and if the man had to work extra long hours or travel you know that's just the way it was I think today men have somewhat different expectations when they try to tailor their schedules as much as they can
[speaker001:] I got uh my office mate um he he got divorced and and uh he was talking about that the thing that he was gladdest about in in the relationship that he was in before that uh he spent like a lot more time than the average father with his kid I mean he took his kids out um ice skating and water skiing and and I mean just if there was something that that he could think of to do with them he went out and did it
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] and now now that he's he's no longer the the wife has custody of the kids he still has a good relationship with the kids
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] which you know a lot of people even in marriages that stay together try to all of the sudden get to know their kids when they turn eighteen or something like that
[speaker002:] sure
[speaker001:] but but I think I think he did the right thing is is making sure that the kids really I mean they might get mad as heck at at at the parents but making sure that the kids know from you know one two three that that there's no one that loves them as much as uh as dad and mom you know
[speaker002:] yeah I think there's a lot to that you you really have to establish the relationship early on yeah certainly read a lot or heard a lot of stories about people who grow up saying I felt I never really knew my father
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and I you know it's it's hard to say I don't travel in a wide social circle but it's my impression that a lot of people today a lot of men are are trying to change anyway
[speaker001:] I think it has been changing over the generations you know I see my granddad now and and it's really it's really way too late I I mean my granddad grew up in the military you know he was always the never show your feelings but it seems like he tries real hard now to to try let his sons know that that he loves them and it's
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] I mean to some extent it's too late my dad I'm sorry go ahead
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I was just saying yeah
[speaker001:] yeah my dad um I always knew that my dad loved me he but he never really said it until uh
[speaker002:] um
[speaker001:] oh I don't know I think I was in college the first time I actually heard him say it but uh I always knew it I mean he always he always did things so that I knew it but I think I I mean granted it's easy to say I don't have kids but uh I I I think that's one of the things I really want to make sure that I do a lot is is say it as many times as as just so that they get oh you know come on dad stop that but you know I mean you know I don't know
[speaker002:] yeah actually I've heard a lot of that from uh my son who you know goes through periods were he's particularly attached to mom and when I say I love you you know he says I hate you and things like that not just kidding around not really meaning it but you know not as comfortable with uh an overt display of affection from me anyway
[speaker001:] uh-huh um what kind of stuff do you do with them
[speaker002:] uh try to uh plan outings to museum say take them to playgrounds you know baseball in the back yard that kind of thing a lot of times following his lead he's currently obsessed with Legos I mean he he