[speaker001:] well uh it seems to me that uh that I don't know whether the jury system uh I I shouldn't say I don't know I don't feel very uh stronger that the jury system should be changed it seems to have worked uh uh time immemorial and when uh difficult decisions uh are made uh uh uh they generally prove out to be right by things that occur later on uh I know in some cases now in some states depending on the criminal code
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and uh a unanimous verdict isn't required and indeed some juries are no longer twelve people they're down to as little small as six people in I think in petty in in uh in uh minor felonies and uh and misdemeanor trials
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] um I think that the judges should be left to do most of the sentencing simply because uh there's always uh there's there's always a jury that might be swayed uh by the moment uh to either be too lenient or too vengeful I guess
[speaker002:] yeah on the other hand uh attorney uh uh justices are more apt to uh understand you know the crime the prison crowding problems and things like that and have that sway their decisions one way or the other
[speaker001:] yeah but I mean isn't that uh is that a reflection then of what's really happening in the real world if if if they keep giving everybody
[speaker002:] you know uh
[speaker001:] hundred year sentences and the people in various states it doesn't seem that people want to be taxed to build more prisons or even in for that matter uh repair the uh the lack of judges and and and other uh
[speaker002:] yeah I think that's what's happening I think uh the judges are trying to save the people from having to the cost of new prisons they're
[speaker001:] yeah you know that might be it I mean they they certainly
[speaker002:] there saying oh well you know the the people can't afford it
[speaker001:] I don't I don't know how it is in Virginia but in Florida now uh uh uh at eighteen years someone was just sentenced to eighteen years I heard on Today uh without any specific recommendation for uh uh uh uh uh uh uh waving the normal uh procedures and the eighteen years will uh translate into something like uh four point seven if every if the if the prisoner is a model prisoner and indeed the present overcrowding conditions uh
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] prevail plus I guess there was some credit for time this guy had already spent in jail waiting for trial
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so uh yeah you might be right about that I I I do not know it just seems to me that only about uh from what I read only about ninety percent of the cases only about ten percent of the cases come for trial anyway
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and uh only about uh four four four or five percent of uh in the in the very end or less than less than half the trials that go to uh uh less than half the cases that go to trial uh end up with with uh with the jury actually making the verdict
[speaker002:] with a conviction oh okay
[speaker001:] that most of it's plea bargained uh half way through or or uh most of the cases are plea bargained anyway
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but uh uh how do you feel about the about the jury system itself do you you think that should be changed or do do you know in Virginia whether it's if they have smaller juries or
[speaker002:] um I don't know exactly what the size of the juries I know one of my friends was uh uh brought up for jury duty for and he only heard very you know piddly type cases
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] most of it was uh robberies or things like that you know it wasn't any serious crimes so apparently even for the smallest crimes they give the person the you know any felony anyways they they give the person the option for a jury
[speaker001:] yeah well I guess we do yeah I guess we always focus on criminal trials with with the jury but I know you have a right to ask for a jury in in any sort of a case that even where damages are are are uh are are the results of some sort of a uh an action that you're bringing against someone else you can ask for that to be heard before a jury takes a heck of a long time I guess to get there
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] in some states I I I don't know uh I should imagine Virginia from what I read uh uh is like every other state it it's faced with uh
[speaker002:] uh-huh
[speaker001:] uh enormous costs to maintain the jury system and the prison system and the entire trial system because I guess everywhere I read that there's a shortage of judges
[speaker002:] right right
[speaker001:] not that they won't appoint them but there's no budget for them I guess or
[speaker002:] huh
[speaker001:] and the courthouse that goes with them and the bailiffs and the clerk uh or clerks
[speaker002:] yeah whatever
[speaker001:] so it seems uh no I I I don't think I'd change it the more I verbalize it I I don't think I'd want to change the system
[speaker002:] right uh I don't think I would either
[speaker001:] I don't know what we'd replace it with
[speaker002:] yeah I know it uh does seem like the the the the purpose of getting people in jail so that you know the the I can't think of the word I'm looking for anyways the deterrent
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] for people to to commit the crime uh to not to commit the crime is sort of gone away people have I don't know they just don't care any more the benefit I guess of crime outweighs what the deterrent is you know people that
[speaker001:] uh and yet there are there are so many there are so many people in prison I mean the prison population uh as far as I I uh you know my impression of it is that it's that it's doubled in the last ten years and tripled in the last twenty
[speaker002:] hum
[speaker001:] I mean it so so I guess our population has grown some too but there there definitely is uh uh you know to me the one of the worst things that could ever happen uh from what I read and see and understand I mean I don't think I could handle prison
[speaker002:] yeah well I'd be interested in finding out what the uh
[speaker001:] I mean it was very difficult
[speaker002:] percentage of drug related type things are and uh
[speaker001:] well there must be a a a a a very great degree of that but
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] but there again I I don't know if the the jury system itself uh comes in to play there I would think that one of the things that sort of bothers me is the ability of course that it's a constitutional right that the press must have here is the the interviewing of jurors after the trial I mean that it seems to me that that that when a jury makes a decision they shouldn't be asked uh before television cameras and newspaper reporters how they reached that decision I mean I don't
[speaker002:] huh right
[speaker001:] I imagine there's a certain certain right of the press to have the ability to ask that but I I would think I if I did anything I'd protect the juror from from any sort of an inquisition after
[speaker002:] um well I know uh on the other hand though when uh after the Barry trial up here you know that was a big local trial as well as national
[speaker001:] yeah yeah oh yeah yeah well I do a lot of business up in Washington I was there during the during the trial actually yeah
[speaker002:] yeah and the opposite was true of me uh after the case was over I was like somebody get ahold of these people and find out why in the world did they vote the way they did you know it was like well pictures isn't good enough we want to see I don't know what they wanted I mean
[speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah
[speaker002:] they want the guy to I don't know I mean just because you feel like he was being kicked on which he certainly was you know I think uh no doubt in my mind the federal government picked him out and selected him to be prosecuted
[speaker001:] oh I felt that way I felt I felt
[speaker002:] but it doesn't matter the guy was obviously guilty
[speaker001:] no but yeah I always balanced in the in the situation I remember the jurors uh I thought to myself how did how did they only I think they only found uh found him guilty on one count which was uh not even which was a class something felony which was not even punishable
[speaker002:] one one count yeah
[speaker001:] uh uh to the degree that they thought it but I don't know maybe when you're there in the room in the courtroom yourself and you're sitting there and you've got to make a judgment on somebody and the prosecutors do a lousy job or maybe the evidence was as sensational as the media presented it I mean I I'm not making excuses for
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] that might be it
[speaker002:] well yeah I think we're getting
[speaker001:] but I think I'm getting a call coming in
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] all right nice talking with you thank you
[speaker002:] well it's been nice talking to you um-hum bye-bye