[speaker001:] so uh how do you feel about the taxes you pay do you feel you pay uh too much or about right or
[speaker002:] well it it it's the type of thing of what exactly am I getting out of the taxes and
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] to some extent there is definitely you know you can say all right I'm paying this money for this and this is what I'm getting back in terms of roads and highways and you know I guess quote unquote retirement if it's actually there when we actually end up retiring
[speaker001:] yeah it's hard to tell
[speaker002:] there there seems to be some problem you know some question on whether there will be actually money there or not
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] that I don't like about the taxes is I was looking through the IRS forms like uh the other day
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] I noticed that fourteen percent of the amount of money that we pay in for taxes each year is just going to pay the national debt
[speaker001:] um-hum now is that the debt uh or is that just the interest on the debt
[speaker002:] that that is the interest on the debt
[speaker001:] yes you know I really don't understand this completely I've been a little mystified who who are we paying it to
[speaker002:] ourselves
[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] um to a large extent I mean one of the I think I'm not sure if it's the largest but I know a large segment of the national debt is um you know things like savings bonds and other government obligations
[speaker001:] okay so it's to private individuals who own government instruments of some sort
[speaker002:] well not not just private but there's you know lot of public institutions that are holding money as well as a lot of um foreign companies and foreign persons
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] that are holding that but
[speaker001:] okay so but these are nongovernmental entities
[speaker002:] yeah nongovernmental
[speaker001:] okay who are holding bonds and whatever
[speaker002:] yeah you know Treasury Certificates and US Savings Bonds and whatever
[speaker001:] okay yeah that is uh I mean well what what can they I mean what's to be done at this point increase that amount for sometime so it will eventually go down or I mean I imagine if you're just servicing the debt you're not really making any progress right
[speaker002:] right well it's actually uh you know also looking at the same form they had that we are borrowing the US is borrowing eighteen percent of the amount of of how how of whatever it's spending every year
[speaker001:] so we're increasing the debt by an amount equal to eighteen percent of the annual budget
[speaker002:] yeah so we're borrowing eighteen percent and fourteen percent of what we're paying out is going to pay the eighteen the uh debt so to some extent we're borrowing money to pay
[speaker001:] so
[speaker002:] you know fourteen percent that we're borrowing goes directly paying out to the debt
[speaker001:] which is only increasing
[speaker002:] yeah so we're you know net we're doing a net borrowing of four percent each year and then we're doing a borrowing on top of that of fourteen percent that just goes to pay interest on the debt
[speaker001:] right and uh then the question I mean do other countries do this or this a distinctly American phenomenon
[speaker002:] that I don't know I don't know if uh other countries work as a deficit or not I from what I can understand it's only recent within maybe the last fifty years or so
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] you know except for wartimes that the U S has had a peacetime debt
[speaker001:] uh-huh well and I guess fifty years would pretty much jive with the last big wartime debt
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] and they just seemed like it's a good idea why stop
[speaker002:] yeah I I think if you look at some of the uh government spending curves um you know the the curve always went up around wartime and then dropped back down
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] after World War Two it never dropped back down or it was World War Two or uh Korea I think it never dropped back down
[speaker001:] uh-huh so what do you think is the uh you know if you were in charge what would you what parts would you change to fix this problem
[speaker002:] well you know definitely one thing is to say hey we have a year to year balanced budget
[speaker001:] so at least we wouldn't have that additional uh what was it eighteen percent or yeah
[speaker002:] yeah so you know you know maybe raise taxes for a few years until that debt gets paid off and then say you know unless there is a
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] tremendously bad circumstances like a war or something we should not be running a deficit economy you know that's I mean if you look on the individual level if I were to borrow eighteen percent of what I was spending every year year after year I would very quickly get in trouble with creditors
[speaker001:] uh-huh  well it does seem like the uh the quality of the bonds that United States sell would eventually be downgraded doesn't it
[speaker002:] um yeah well that's you know the post wartime Germany they just kept printing up money and you know it became worthless so that's one danger
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh um-hum
[speaker002:] but you know it's that that's a very large chunk of the money we pay in for taxes each year
[speaker001:] it is shocking but apparently no one's willing to oh I'm not no one but by the time it all ends up in Congress seems