[speaker001:] Okay, do you have any pets?
[speaker002:] Yes, I've had, I have had a number of them in my lifetime and I've, I am a Golden retriever fan,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] but I had to replace it with something that the kids could carry.
[speaker001:] Oh [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yes. Yes.
[speaker001:] Instead of being carried [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Yes, well, they were, they really wanted something teeny tiny, and I, uh, really wanted that retriever's disposition.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, the ultimate to tolerant, trainable disposition,
[speaker001:] Really.
[speaker002:] so I called [breathing] four or five dog trainers because I don't like the little dogs.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, and I asked them, you know, these are the ages of the kids, what do I get. And they all said, Golden Retriever and I said okay,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] put it under twenty pounds. And the only thing that they could come up with was a Bichon Frize which is a,
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] Do you know what that is?
[speaker001:] Yes, I've seen those. They're cute.
[speaker002:] They're cute. They look like an air headed let me tell you. They're calm, they're not yuppie, they're trainable, they're, uh, very personable in a different way that a Golden Retriever is. They're not dignified like a retriever can be.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah. So how old is your retriever?
[speaker001:] Oh, she's about four. She's not completely pure. We got her from the, uh, Humane Society when she was a puppy. She looks like a Gol-, she looks just like a Golden Retriever, but she's a little bit smaller. She's like fifty-five pounds.
[speaker002:] Well, actually, you know, that's the breed standard for females. What you,
[speaker001:] Is it?
[speaker002:] yeah, what you see shown and bred now as Golden Retrievers, this, you know, plus eighty to a hundred pound range.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] That is not breed standard.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] Fifty-five is the minimum but they usually run about sixty to sixty-five. And the ones that are shown, they are inside that weight allowance.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] You cannot show your retriever if it's, you know, a hundred plus pounds.
[speaker001:] Oh, huh.
[speaker002:] So don't say she's small,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] just say she's perfect.
[speaker001:] She's perfect. Well, she's got a brown nose instead of black too.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Which makes her, I guess, unshowable,
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker001:] even if she had papers which she doesn't but, but we love her anyway. She's just a lot of company to us. We didn't, we haven't had any kids and we're expecting a baby this summer, but up until then, she's been our substitute kid and she was a lot of fun.
[speaker002:] Well, they are, they are the ultimate dog to have around kids so long as your kid is not scared of a big dog,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] because I had a retriever, actually I had a retriever Irish Setter cross.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Which is a really nice animal and fortunately it was just like a retriever and then I've had a retriever.
[speaker001:] I bet it had a pretty coat too.
[speaker002:] It was gorgeous. It was just gorgeous. I mean just gorgeous. Um, and they both, you know, both the half breed and the pure breed had the, uh, what I consider the, the, the perfect disposition. But you know what, you know what scares me about Golden Retrievers?
[speaker001:] Huh-uh. * slash error
[speaker002:] Since they've become so popular you get what I call backyard breeders.
[speaker001:] Yeah. * slash error
[speaker002:] Which is probably where yours came from. People that don't know what they're doing, and they breed them, you know, for a certain characteristic. And in the retrievers it happens to be they like them big, for somehow big is perceived as the better. And when you start doing that you really tamper with, you know, the, all the, the years of, uh, culling litters and, and, uh, you tamper with what the dog innately is.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] We w-, when I was, when I bought my last purebred retriever I mean I looked all over because I wanted one that still looked like a retriever, you know, the short to the ground, stocky, golden, uh, trainable, tractable, quiet
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] animal that could hunt and still be in the house. And I ended up getting one that, uh, came out of a, a, a hunting stock
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] because I wanted one that could still perform like a retriever did. And I've seen an awful lot of [whispering] lately really dumb,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] dumb retrievers and I'm, and I really fear for the breed because I love that breed,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but I really figure right when it becomes really popular that it's [breathing] going to be ruined.
[speaker001:] We have some friends with a brother and sister Golden retriever and those dogs have been having seizures, and I wonder since both of them are having them if it's some kind of breeding
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] problem.
[speaker002:] You bet you. You bet you. You know how they came up with the retriever, don't you, the Golden?
[speaker001:] Huh-uh.
[speaker002:] It was bred out of several different retrievers, and they bred it for companionship and, uh, uh, disposition and, and ability to hunt. It was kept only by kings.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] But they selectively culled those litters, I mean, for many hundreds of years and since it slept in the castle with its master, I mean it had, it had to be of a disposition [breathing] to make it, you know, an animal you could keep around that closely. But they would go through all the litters and destroy the puppies if they were anything other than perfect. Now, you know, that seems like a cruel thing to do.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] On the other hand, you sure, you know, they sure created a, a wonderful breed,
[speaker001:] Yeah. They did.
[speaker002:] I mean a wonderful breed.
[speaker001:] I, I had never really had a Golden retriever before. We were going to get a shepherd and something mixed because my husband's family had had shepherds and all the other, we looked at some of the shepherd mixes and the puppies weren't very, uh, social and stuff.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And we went to a pen of a little bit bigger dogs and all the others were standing there barking and jumping up and down. And one dog would stand there wagging her tail and smiling [LAUGHTER]. And that,
[speaker002:] Well, I tell you,
[speaker001:] was mine.
[speaker002:] you know the, the German shepherd is the classic case of what I'm talking about because in America that's called a Rin Tin Tin phenomena.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Only in America is there a dog called a German Shepherd.
[speaker001:] Oh, really?
[speaker002:] That dog is bred out of three European dogs. The Belgian Tervurien, a German Skutzhund, and a [speaker makes a grunt], I always forget the third one. I can see it. Uh, uh, i-, but the third one is a children's dog.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] And there are distinct breeds in Europe. Now what happened over here was is that people saw the, the first, um, which would actually have been a Skutzhund which is what Rin Tin Tin was.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And everybody wanted Rin Tin Tin.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] And it was known as a German shepherd here. So they created a breed standard. The American Kennel Club did.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] That said anything that is a Skutzhund, a, a Tervurien and, uh, Alsatian that's the other one. Alsatian, any inner breeding of that can be called a German shepherd here.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] And what happened is, is that people wanted this shepherd to shepherd and protect. And they bred a dog that I th-, it's called a, an animal's critical span which basically translates to how much shit will it take before it bites you.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] That German shepherd, the American German Shepherd here was a, a, a such an unreliable animal that the American Seeing Eye Institute
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] refused to use them,
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] because they would turn on th-, on their handlers.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And even, um, uh, police corps which started, you know, finding other breeds to use because this thing, this, this thing known as a German shepherd here, its personality and its dependability and its reliability was just terrible. So about fifteen years ago the German Shepherd Club of America decided amongst themselves that they were going to change this. So they went back to Europe and brought back some good examples of each of the three breeds
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and bred to a standard what they wanted an American German shepherd to be. Which is a very heavily now Skutzhund and Alsatian, and it's the Alsatian that's the kid's dog. It's just, you see them in Europe and they're just lovely.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] But you'll see, I mean, if you ever start looking in papers now and you start seeing these ads for German Shepherds, they will say on them, bred for disposition, A K C conforming
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] which means that their advertising that this is no longer an indiscriminate dog. This is bred for, and they had to go through and destroy a, for a while there, about seventy-five percent of their puppies that they bred.
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] Because they were looking for this disposition. And nowadays you, you'll get, you'll get a dog trainer to recommend a specific, you know, breeder handler. They will recommend their shepherds as a children's dog.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] But...