[speaker001:] okay
[speaker002:] um-hum well what do you think about gun control
[speaker001:] well I tell you I'm I'm for some really strong gun control measures but I mean that opens a lot of questions that I don't have any answers for
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] it's like I'd I'd like to see a lot of controls um on it and because I would like uh I think the purpose you know with a purpose goal and a purpose in mind of seeing violence decrease in our society but uh how to get from here to there I'm not sure
[speaker002:] I wouldn't be for against control if it made it virtually impossible for even criminals to get them
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] that's the problem is when you when you you know you take it away from the people who don't intend to ever use them for for a violent crime other than hunting and things like that
[speaker001:] um-hum right
[speaker002:] and the criminals can always continue to get the guns regardless they can get them through the black market or whatever so I'm not sure if gun control in it's true sense that they're trying to implement it will ever work
[speaker001:] yeah but I I think what would happen though is that yes you would have a certain type of criminal a certain criminal element that would um
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] be be able to find a way to get the guns but I think in a lot of domestic uh disputes and a lot of family disputes um I'm not sure that those people would be able to get a hold of the guns you know in other words a a family that has a history say of physical abuse or physical violence but isn't the kind of family that's involved in criminal activities if if there were gun controls and that there just were not guns accessible to that type of family
[speaker002:] yeah I think you know if it when it came down to these uh what I what I would consider militant type guns assault rifles and you know hand guns because I'm I'm not I'm not a real advocate of hand guns I I mean I do I do own one
[speaker001:] oh yeah yeah um-hum do you
[speaker002:] but I own it for protection I know how to use it I know when not to use it
[speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh
[speaker002:] I think for the person that's inexperienced has no business with one uh
[speaker001:] uh-huh I know well that's the thing I'm not really sure if I want to um
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] learn how to use one I'm not sure I could use one I I've thought a lot about this there was something that came up that made me think a lot about it and I I'm not sure uh somebody was saying that you'd have to you know be able to pull the trigger in the end and I guess I always thought if it was threatening my personal safety or especially like my kids you know
[speaker002:] yeah well the reason I say we were uh we personally have experienced a major crime in our family
[speaker001:] you have uh-huh
[speaker002:] and uh you know with my wife and daughter
[speaker001:] oh my goodness
[speaker002:] they were kidnapped
[speaker001:] you're kidding
[speaker002:] and you know and and it's really made me look differently
[speaker001:] I can imagine
[speaker002:] at the way it is you know and uh I'm not saying that I if I'd had a gun I could have done you know anything because I I really wasn't even there it happened while I was away but
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] but I think there are certain cases where it could get you in trouble you have to be able to know when it when it can and when it can't if it came in the middle of the night where if I could get my hands on it and do something with it that's one thing uh
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah um-hum yeah but yeah that's the that is the thing see as in the past say five years I've evolved from thinking no I'm really I'm so much of pacifist that I would have to find another way to deal with the situation or deal with being victimized you know I couldn't use a gun hold on just a minute sorry we have kind of an open house and the sound really travels um
[speaker002:] that's all right well I've kind of got pros and cons about both there there there there's good things and bad things and there's there's a lot of details that you you know it's hard to work out all the details
[speaker001:] uh-huh no yeah but I but I what I started to say is I've come to the point now where I'm thinking no I really want to take a self defense course and I want to take control over um you know my own defense and my own safety I I I think I'm just I need to take responsibility more responsibility for that than I do right now I think I just I allow myself to think well it will never happen to me or it won't happen to me you know I'm not going to have to deal with that and I just I don't think that's it will I'm sure yeah
[speaker002:] yeah I assure you it it can it can and and the chances you know because we've been through a lot of the the court battles and all this other stuff over the years because they're behind bars now but
[speaker001:] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] but they won't be there long and and we we've had to deal you know we've had to deal with a lot of that and
[speaker001:] oh boy um-hum
[speaker002:] the the frightening thing is and and I can I can tell you from you know just statistics and and from even other people I've talked with your chances is one is actually one in three right now
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum wow
[speaker002:] one out of every third person is has and I'm talking about a major crime committed against them now it's one out of every four or five for just a a crime
[speaker001:] wow right right
[speaker002:] whether it be just normal robbery or whatever
[speaker001:] holy smoke that's wild I was talking again I was talking with somebody just last week and about about crime in general I guess it's been on the news a lot lately and I guess must be in the back of everybody's mind but I was saying if people around here think if they just get a better security system and a higher fence that you know they're going to take care of themselves and I said there's it's going to come to a point it where that you can't get a fence that's high enough and a security system that's good enough
[speaker002:] well actually the a a higher fence is less is more of a security risk
[speaker001:] yeah because
[speaker002:] than a normal average six foot fence did you know that
[speaker001:] no kidding no I
[speaker002:] yeah we thought because we had an eight foot fence
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] the problem is they can get behind it and they can do a lot behind an eight foot fence
[speaker001:] oh that they can't do behind a
[speaker002:] that they can't do behind a normal fence
[speaker001:] that's something wow
[speaker002:] um in fact they say it's actually it's you're actually more secure if you have no fence at all
[speaker001:] yeah well I can see how that might be now I mean you don't have to answer this or not if you don't want to because I know it's a personal thing but with the crime that your family was involved in was was there were there guns involved in that
[speaker002:] but uh yes
[speaker001:] there were gosh
[speaker002:] yes yeah they well they didn't use them but they put they put the guns to their heads
[speaker001:] that is really well they don't have to use them in that case I mean they just have to have them
[speaker002:] yeah and you know they they physically were not harmed in any way they were very lucky
[speaker001:] they weren't yeah um-hum
[speaker002:] and and knowing the guy and his record his normal motif is to kill them he just he just happened not to he put them in the trunk of her car and drove them out and left them
[speaker001:] um-hum  really wow is he just crazy
[speaker002:] yeah he's just basically crazy he's he's been he's been in prisons you know a couple times
[speaker001:] wow
[speaker002:] and yet he's out in a very little time
[speaker001:] he has killed people and he's and he's out one person yeah
[speaker002:] one he's one person but he's he's used them not maybe necessarily killed them but that's his normal style I mean that that's what he would do in a in a confronted situation
[speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah yeah if he could yeah
[speaker002:] uh you know he's he's been it's been proven that he that he's not uh
[speaker001:] gosh
[speaker002:] society material
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] but yet you know like I say he'll be back out on the street just because of this this new you know uh
[speaker001:] there's no prison space
[speaker002:] yeah there's no prison space but you know you you come to the point where you have to you have to say either they're rehabilitatable or not
[speaker001:] right you got to do one or the other
[speaker002:] uh you know and those that they that they that that clinically are nuts and out of their minds
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] or those who have committed a murder who are who will do it again because they've they've said you know when a person's murdered somebody out of cold blood the chances are they would do it again because they feel no remorse
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum gosh
[speaker002:] they need and I and I and I hate to say this because I know it sounds awfully bad but they need to eliminate them
[speaker001:] um-hum
[speaker002:] they need to get them out of society
[speaker001:] yeah I because we can't
[speaker002:] we can't tolerate it anymore we don't we we we flat don't have the space we don't have the money
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] spend it on the ones who who do have a chance
[speaker001:] have a chance did you did you hear about that um prison reform that's going up in Washington state or Oregon or someplace up there where they're taking criminals who are repeat offenders and I mean really repeat offenders that uh have raped several times or child molesters that have molested several children over and over again and they have put them in I don't even think they call it a police a a prison but that's some kind of special it's a separate building in a separate location and they are just in there indefinitely they don't have any time when they are going to be released
[speaker002:] I I mean I've I've heard of you know similar programs but to me I mean if
[speaker001:] um-hum that
[speaker002:] and I I you know again I hate to say this but had they had they really hurt my family
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] or whatever
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I would have stopped at nothing to ensure they were dead
[speaker001:] yeah I I understand that
[speaker002:] I and I I hate to say that but I I mean it's it's just you they they violate your family of course at that point you don't have much to lose and I hate I really hate to say that but I think that I would be that uh taken buy it
[speaker001:] no that's right that's right no I can understand I I can understand and respect that I have my own three kids and I I've I saw a story on TV one time about a father who did take revenge on um someone who had hurt his children and shot the guy and um I you know I remembered that that was years ago and I remember seeing that and and I really could understand where that was coming from
[speaker002:] yeah but the victims are the ones that are the criminals are made the criminals I mean they're the ones that that end up hurting the worst
[speaker001:] yeah yep I I've heard that
[speaker002:] and that that's really a shame but as far you know but as far as gun control goes I think that there needs there definitely needs to be some measures taken because not everybody's capable of owning of owning and and taking care of a weapon
[speaker001:] yeah and using it yeah and terrible accidents do happen when there's kids around
[speaker002:] and yeah you know it's hard to say that
[speaker001:] but on the other hand you can't rely I mean the whole time I was growing up up until last five years I always thought well the police will handle it you know they'll get it under control and I just don't feel that way
[speaker002:] well there's not enough policemen
[speaker001:] well I don't feel that's true anymore they're not going to be able to handle it
[speaker002:] no well there's not enough policeman
[speaker001:] um-hum um-hum
[speaker002:] or detectives or whatever you know and the people have to learn to to help themselves some they have by being extra careful
[speaker001:] right right
[speaker002:] uh by you know by knowing the signs of a crime of a crime beginning to happen or whatever and and frankly frankly just reporting them a lot of people don't they they choose not to get involved when in fact they really should
[speaker001:] um-hum wow that would that would be hard to understand
[speaker002:] yeah well I mean lot of people say well I don't want to get involved because then you know because then if you know if they get off then they are going to come after me uh you know there's a lot there's a lot of that well see to me I I will never stand by
[speaker001:] oh yeah but still yeah you can't yeah
[speaker002:] I I won't