[speaker001:] Okay. I think the first thing they said, I have written this down so it would, is it p-, do you think it's possible to have honesty in government or an honest government?
[speaker002:] Okay. You're asking what my opinion about,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] whether it's possible [LAUGHTER] to have honesty in government. Well, I suspect that it is possible. Uh, I think it probably is more likely if you have a small government unit where everybody knows everybody.
[speaker001:] Right. That's a good point.
[speaker002:] But, uh, other than that I think maybe it just depends on how you define honesty.
[speaker001:] That's an int-, you know, that's interesting. I had read something one time and it was just applying to governments in general, it was written many years ago. It said that it's impossible to have a completely honest system of government because people who choose government for their positions are power seekers. And I thought that was interesting. It wasn't just talking about our government. It was just government in general. From times past, you know
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] on and,
[speaker002:] So they're saying that government officials would tend to be power seekers.
[speaker001:] Right. And that would be a next question to ask. How many do you think are in there for pub-, for bu-, * I think utt's 3 and 4 should be a single slash unit because they want to be a service to us or are they in there for their own gains, and personally I feel it's probably, there's probably some of each.
[speaker002:] Right. Yeah. But I think maybe a lot of them, um, say the more honest ones who are still looking out for themselves, it may be more matter of not what can I steal while in an office but how many friends can I make while,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I'm in office.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And, you know, how good a name can I make for myself and so forth. So I guess it would be like anything else.
[speaker001:] [Very faint] Yeah.
[speaker002:] The president of General Motors probably has the same,
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] And they talked, uh, the other, let's see. Third question was how m-, serving for their own gains do you think goes on, then they, that's hard to answ-, I'm sure there's a lot. But I agree with you, there's a lot in business. I think that's just, I think that's very normal,
[speaker002:] I think I-,
[speaker001:] that we should not ex-, I think, I think we put too much on politicians. We expect them [LAUGHTER] to only be there to serve us, you know.
[speaker002:] I think a little more honesty in the campaigns would be,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] more to the point. If you knew what you were getting when you voted, uh,
[speaker001:] That's a problem, isn't it?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's interesting because I'm taking a Texas government class right now, and one of the things it's so easy to blame them to a lot of times I think it's our own fault. They lie to us because we don't want to hear the truth.
[speaker002:] Yeah, they say you,
[speaker001:] And it,
[speaker002:] get the government you deserve.
[speaker001:] If they tell us the truth, we don't elect them and,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh [throat clearing].
[speaker001:] Especially with all this fron-, co-, stuff coming up here lately about people's past, and I don't know why anybody would want to get under that scrutiny anymore.
[speaker002:] It's hard to imagine.
[speaker001:] Because it's,
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker001:] I think it's gotten just care-, well, we're not talking about issues we're talking about somebody's personal life and, and we're getting away from what we ought to be looking at [throat clearing].
[speaker002:] Yeah, and it almost seems like in order to avoid, uh, some of the scandal, you would have to have the kind of wife that you would only find, on, say in the Bobsy twins or,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] something like that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] You know, I also think it would be funny if we could know everything about the people that were in there and throw them out. I don't think there would be too many left [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] So you're taking a government course?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] At what? The university?
[speaker001:] Uh, at, uh, it's T C J C. Tex-, Tarrant County Junior College.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] And it's really, it's really enjoyable. I like it. And then they also, you know, ask can we eliminate, do you think we could make laws to eliminate all corruption, and I don't think we can make laws to eliminate anything anyplace totally.
[speaker002:] You can make laws against corruption [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Yeah, but that,
[speaker002:] But that doesn't eliminate it, does it?
[speaker001:] doesn't mean, I don't think making laws will stop it. I mean I don't know how many laws you would have to have. I mean,
[speaker002:] Well, they've got laws against cannib-, cannibalism but that didn't stop that guy in, * seems that a new slash unit should start at the conjunction "but"
[speaker001:] No, sure didn't,
[speaker002:] Milwaukee, did it?
[speaker001:] did it?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So no, I think you can legislate but I think there's no way that you eliminate it all by legislating, and we would end up with so many more laws that, you know, I mean I just think that's human nature that you're going to have corruption in government, in business, personal life, I mean, you know.
[speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Actually, I think other countries may have it worse, uh, the Japanese government is always having a, some kind of a scandal.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Usually involving the Prime Minister or people very close to him.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I still believe I get very fed up with government sometimes but when I think about where I'd want to go, you know, this is still the best or I can,
[speaker002:] Yeah, I've been around to a few other countries and I, uh, I, I have not found one yet that I would rather live in. I think, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, at its worst I think we've got the best.