[speaker001:] So well, you're, you, you take this subject much more personally than I do, I suppose.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I suppose I do because I've seen a lot of those changes, the changes that women have had in the last genera-, well, you know, [baby talking] not even the last generation, the last fifteen years
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] twenty years, going from, well, take it back, thirty years [LAUGHTER] I'm going back too far, from my parents' generation when mom stayed home, [baby talking] period
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and there was no such thing as a job or any hope of a job, unti-, well, unless, if you were educated you got, you know, you might teach for a year or two before you got married.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [baby talking] And if you really pushed it, you taught until you had kids or something
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know, if you had, if you were a teacher. Then, you know, that was it, until the kids were little.
[speaker001:] Yeah, you, you weren't supposed to want a job.
[speaker002:] Yes. There was not, there's not supposed to be any reason to use this education or this brain that [baby talking] you might have for anything other than your house and your children [baby talking] and how clean can the bathroom floors be on any given day.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And then, and then of course today it's supposed to be all the other way. You're supposed to only want [baby talking] the job, and, and, uh, your kids should be totally happy in day care, because everybody else goes to day care
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and, and we have these wonderful people who are
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] who are totally prepared to tea-, to teach your child everything they need to know in day care
[speaker001:] [baby talking] Yeah, but
[speaker002:] and we'll see how the generations go.
[speaker001:] but, uh, a really good day care is probably going to cost more than you're going to make at the job.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I, at least for a lot of women
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] depending on, on what she did. I've, I was an engineer with, uh, mechanical engineer with T I, and, uh, I did it for six years and for one, well I had one while I was pregnant, and then one while my oldest was a year old, and, and it just drove me crazy.
[speaker001:] Did you,
[speaker002:] I could not do either well enou-, I couldn't put in enough overtime that was necess-, or that, you know, things that would come up at work, that would require me to stay late or to come in early or to do something on Saturdays
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] as is, you know, as is needed, because my husband for a long time was out of the country
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah,
[speaker002:] also with, uh, with work, for like three months and,
[speaker001:] So it was you and the kid and your work schedule is.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Well that's the thing, see, you know, maybe if you get along for example if you'd been a technician instead of an engineer. You know, the technicians work the eight to five job
[speaker002:] Yeah, might have been better.
[speaker001:] and know when they're going to be there.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But if you're going to be more professional oriented, then you've got to have this, to be able to perform well on the job you've got to have the flexibility that doesn't really go with the family.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and so it was, in my case, I just, uh, decided that, as long as my kids were little, I would be better off at home with them, instead of driving myself crazy trying to do everything at once.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. So you figure one of these days you're going to go back to being an engineer? Is that what you're saying?
[speaker002:] Well, actually I've found out that I'm not going to go back to being an engineer. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] What will you,
[speaker002:] I'm, I'm, I'm a photographer now.
[speaker001:] Oh, okay, you've found something else.
[speaker002:] I have, I have branched out. I was a photographer before, but when I went to college it was, I felt like I couldn't support myself if I decided to be a photographer
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that it would just have to be a hobby, and I'm very mechanical, and mechanical engineering interested me, so I did that. And then I, you know, I did that for six years. And then I stayed home with my son, and did nothing.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And found out that I was, that, you know, it was great, but I was bored part of the time, too. And I wanted something else to do,
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, you figure there's got to be more to life than sitting here playing with this child.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's, it's great while they're really little, but as they get older
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and they're more independent, and there's things to do, then it's good for them to go to different, I mean, it, he goes to a, a mother's day out program now once a week. Both of my kids do, and so they're getting, they get the socialization with other kids, and, you know, and not really school, but, but a different authority than mom, once in a while, you know, kind of learning how to deal with society.
[speaker001:] And, and they need that, you know, to be able to relate to other people besides
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think they do, too.
[speaker001:] the same person every day.
[speaker002:] And I need it for the break. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yeah, well, that's the other thing, you know, they talk about women leaving the home and going out to work, well, still taking care of the children is a very important job.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And, and someone's got to do it, and be able to do it right, and
[speaker002:] And enjoy it, that's, that's the whole thing.
[speaker001:] and if it's not mom then, then dad or somebody's got to move in there
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and do the job, because the kids really need it.
[speaker002:] I think that's the thing that we're going to see, well, I think the biggest thing we're going to see coming up in the next ten year, even in the, {A even now they're starting to do it, but I think it's going to be more in the next ten to fifteen years, } is that there's going to be a lot of women, and they're going to have to work it out to working part time.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Because if, if I had been allowed to work, you know, maybe thirty hours a week instead of fifty hours a week, I might still be working basically full time or part time, if there was, if there had been
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] some way to work it out, because, I liked my job really well.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But I was just pulled in so many different directions I was, it was just driving me crazy. And now, with the photography, that's, you know, it's working, that's what I'm doing, is working part time because I can put my kids in a day care situation for a few hours in the, uh, week
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and use those hours to do. The thing that I'm doing is taking school pictures
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] in day cares and in Mother's Day Out programs, and
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] also soccer teams, and, you know, different stuff like that.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] So my kids can be in day care for a few hours a week, or my husband, if it's, you know, uh, when he's at home, can take care of them.
[speaker001:] Yeah, so jobs have to, I guess, become more flexible.
[speaker002:] I think they're really going to have to, and not, and not just for mothers, for fathers as well.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It's going to have to be both.
[speaker001:] Well, so, so that's another thing that has to adapt is, you know, the, the father's attitudes about, you know, who, whose job is this.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Well, it, it's his job too. And I, to me the only important issue is the children, because as far as housework goes, you know, men can do housework just as easily as women, and thanks to a lot of new inventions, housework doesn't take as much time as it used to. So, uh,
[speaker002:] It's just convincing your husband
[speaker001:] Yeah conv-, yeah, just, yeah, con,
[speaker002:] that that's important, or that it's important enough for him to do it.
[speaker001:] Yeah, well.
[speaker002:] Because if he saw mom doing only that
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, all the time he was growing up
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] then it's hard to think of it
[speaker001:] And you, you, you,
[speaker002:] in that, other, uh, that I should do it
[speaker001:] Yeah, you talk, yeah,
[speaker002:] or just to think about doing it rather than having someone
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] tell him to do it. I know that was a big thing in our house for a
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] long time was that if I wanted my husband to do something to help, {C and even though we were both working the same number of hours, and, and doing things, } I had to come in there specifically and say
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] this needs to be done, this is what you do it now.
[speaker001:] And a man might say out loud, well, you know, I understand this and I agree, but still he was raised with a mom taking care of him
[speaker002:] Yes, and,
[speaker001:] and that's a very hard attitude to change.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and without, and, and it's just they don't look at things. Most of the men don't walk into the kitchen and see that the dishes are there and that yes, you probably ought to unload the dishwasher and load the new ones in and run it.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] They just, you know, just scoot it on another spot on the sink and put the next plate down, and in a while get around to it. And I think most women walk in and, and, and with, Oh, got to clean all this up. Got to get this out and this in and this, you know, taken care of, instead of having someone say
[speaker001:] Yeah, uh-huh, yeah.
[speaker002:] now, this needs to be do-, this is the time this needs
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] to be done, but,
[speaker001:] And a lot of that is, is how it was drilled into you when you were a kid.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Which brings us back to the idea, you know, someone's got to be there taking care of the kids to drill in these
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] you know, drill in the right ideas
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] to, so that they know that, uh, you know, male and female are both responsible for doing this
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh.
[speaker002:] And I think that's, that's going to show up a lot more now, in the, in the next generation of, of boys and girls. It's not, they're not going to, the boys in this next generation are not going to have to be told as much
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] this needs to be done, because mom was there saying
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that dad is there, you know, you both got to, they were
[speaker001:] Um.
[speaker002:] both working at whatever things were, needed to be done.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] They're going to say to the kids
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you need do this, because it needs to be done
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] not because it's a woman's job or a man's job, but because it's dirty
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and it needs to be clean.
[speaker001:] But I think in between we got a group of kids, a generation of kids who didn't learn to take responsibility because mom left to go get a job and dad didn't move in to fill the gap. And so, basically no one was taking the responsibility
[speaker002:] And it's going to,
[speaker001:] and I think that's happened in a lot of cases.
[speaker002:] It's going to, yeah, some kids are really having it. If they'd been in day care the entire time and it wasn't, yeah, the ones that are now getting to be teenagers and in some cases, young college.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. Un, you know
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] some time day care is really good, but sometimes, it's just, it's baby-sitting.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's someone, you know, keeping an eye on the kids but the kids are basically doing what they want
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and not really having any relationship with the adults to say, you know, here's what's right and here's what wrong, and here's what we expect of you.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I think that was one of the main reasons that I quit, was because I wanted my kids to have my values, and I felt like when they were young, that was the time to instill it.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] That it could be, it could be added to and strengthened as they grew older, but when they were little, you know, this is the way I feel about this, and this is the way, because I, it's that, you know, when you, when you, if you, if you teach them when they're little the way you want them to be, and the things that are important to you, then you just, you add onto it as they get older.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] But if no one does anything when they're little, then it's twice as hard as, I think, as they get older.
[speaker001:] Yes. I'm saying this as I'm trying to keep my nine month old from trashing something.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yes, I understand, I wait until I put mine in bed before I make my calls. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, well, she's usually in bed by this time, but she's staying up late tonight. But, yeah, I want to have a relationship with her. You know, my dad was a very traditional dad, and when I was a child I didn't really know my dad very well, and I miss that. And I want,
[speaker002:] That's the thing, if woman's role, like we said, if women's roles change drastically, men's roles will, too.
[speaker001:] Yeah, but men have to be convinced of that.
[speaker002:] And a lot of it's for the better. Some of the, some of the women's roles, I think, are almost for the worse, because we're losing out on some things, [baby talking] going back to work, but I think if we can, if we can expand the men's roles at the same time, like your taking care of your child, and your dad [typo: your for you're] probably didn't very often
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] I know mine almost never did...