[speaker001:] why don't you go ahead and start
[speaker002:] okay well I think the court systems could stand some improvement uh trial by jury is good but a lot of time it in in a lot of cases uh is circumstantial evidence that that convicts a person which I don't think is all the time good because sometimes it's hard to get all the facts and to prove a person innocent I mean prove a person guilty if you don't really know or you don't really have a eyewitness and how can you convict somebody on circumstantial evidence is beyond me I don't know
[speaker001:] so you think if if trials were held by judges or experts that they they would tend not to uh admit or not to convict people on circumstantial evidence
[speaker002:] I think so
[speaker001:] you know I I attended a trial in uh in Germany when I was a student and uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] that's the sort of system they have the trials are held by a panel of three uh three or four judges who are well they're like lawyers I guess they're experts in the law and uh there there really isn't a jury and uh
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] uh they do the questioning also the judges do the questioning and uh
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] they uh it's I think it's a lot harder to get off on technicalities also because they uh uh the judge is also sort of a jury uh but I'm not sure I like that I think I prefer the jury system myself
[speaker002:] you think you prefer the jury you think your chances are better
[speaker001:] uh well actually I think in most criminal cases it wouldn't make any difference whether it was a couple of judges or a jury what I what I worry about is cases where it's the government against the individual that's where you really need a jury of peers
[speaker002:] well that's true
[speaker001:] because uh anytime the the government um is the government against the individual you need some kind yeah they need the protection of ordinary citizens I think that's really the only thing I guess where I would like to see the system system change is uh um there ought to be uh um well I guess I don't think that uh um juries need to decide sentencing all the time I think maybe the a judge is a better judge of that or um
[speaker002:] um-hum well sometimes sometimes the sentencing is still is not fair I mean even if well the jury I guess they do decide that but but I'm like you in a case like that most time its I don't know maybe I'm too too uh uh conservative when it come to that the the sentencing is really light compared to what I think they should be in a lot of cases
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] you know uh
[speaker001:] well if you drag twelve people into a courtroom I trust them to make the right decision as to whether someone's guilty or innocent that's usually a matter of who to believe and what facts to believe
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but people who don't who don't have day in and day out life long experience with what prison's really like and what the options are to ask them to decide for one case on one person based on what they see I think that is maybe uh a little bit naive
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] in Texas here people tend to get whipped up into a frenzy and slap long sentences on people um
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] it's kind of a um hanging jury atmosphere but in a lot of places I think people bend over the other way but
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] I guess I guess I like the system that they have in some places where the defendant gets to choose whether he's goes before a jury for sentencing or whether the judge gets to choose it some cases some cases in some jurisdictions they can do that
[speaker002:] oh really
[speaker001:] I kind of like that system yeah
[speaker002:] yeah that's that's not a bad system but I I do think it need to be shaken up a little bit but the thing is too maybe they need more of uh
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] I don't know more of a expert types
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] to to be on some of these jury cases because most time you just pick you know Joe Blow or whoever and a good citizen or whoever and and call them in
[speaker001:] right and lawyers blow sand in their eyes
[speaker002:] exactly
[speaker001:] I would like to see most civil cases tried before a panel of experts instead of ordinary juries
[speaker002:] right right exactly
[speaker001:] insurance cases and things like that
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] where and um there'd be more honest settlements instead of this um uh tugging of people's heart strings and um making them cry and feel like they're doing somebody good by giving them
[speaker002:] um-hum putting putting on a act or whatever
[speaker001:] or giving them two million dollars to make up for the pain and suffering
[speaker002:] um-hum exactly exactly
[speaker001:] so in I think in in criminal trials you need the jury as a defense against the government but in civil trials I'd like