[speaker001:] There you go.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well, Jean, the subject is jury trials and should the jury recommend, uh, sentencing.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Now my personal opinion, I don't know. Uh, uh, here lately it seems, well up until a few years ago, I guess, there just too many liberals about and permitting too many, oh, they just broaden the human rights to, to cover just about ev-, everybody, and I don't think those guilty of committing capital crimes should be permitted to go spend a few years in jail and be turned lose on parole.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] It's just not right.
[speaker002:] I think I agree with that very much.
[speaker001:] And therefore
[speaker002:] I, do you,
[speaker001:] I think juries should be able to recommend sentencing.
[speaker002:] Do you think a lot of people, when they are listening to a trial, put themselves in a position like that and say, I would never do something like that, and it's for them to believe that somebody else could do the things that have been done?
[speaker001:] Yes, very possibly. So many of us have led sheltered lives
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] that, uh, when we go into a, sit in on, a jury, I've never done it myself
[speaker002:] I never have either.
[speaker001:] unfortunately, I wish I could have.
[speaker002:] Is there a reason why you have never,
[speaker001:] I've just never been called up.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. My husband works as a police man, so I always assumed that that was why I was never called.
[speaker001:] Well now, that's possible.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] But, uh, I was called up as an alternate once, but I
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] never made it to the jury.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. Uh, do they have such a thing now as a six man jury?
[speaker001:] Not that I know of.
[speaker002:] Somebody told me the other day that there is, what they call a six man jury, and I had never heard of such thing, and I wondered if it was true.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh [pause]. Uh, I've never heard of it.
[speaker002:] I never had either, but I just wondered. Uh, another question was, should a criminal case, should the jury be unanimous on their decision, and that I wasn't sure on either, whether it should be unanimous or not.
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing] [cough] Uh, well, there again, uh, I suppose it should be.
[speaker002:] That would mean they all would have to decide
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker002:] one way or the other.
[speaker001:] Is it guilt or innocence. But then again, so many times you get one or two holdouts, and, and
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] it permits the criminal to get a retrial.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] And there, that's not too bad in this sense, because you might get someone in their that's a victim of circumstances
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I mean, that's happened
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and giving them another trial might give them additional time to, uh, prove their innocence.
[speaker002:] Bring some of these things out.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We can't overlook the fact that there are innocent people that do get involved in jury trials.
[speaker002:] Un, apparently there are. I, I, I, since my husband worked as a policeman, I can't believe there are very many people that come to trial that have, are not guilty of something
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] some part of whatever they're accused of.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I have, I still have a little bit of a problem with that. Uh, but, I would suppose there are circumstances, you're in the wrong place at the right time, or know the wrong person at the right time.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's it, and you just might resemble somebody.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Uh, out here in Texas we had a, a, a, great miscarriage of justice. It was finally, after nine years, it was finally, uh, taken care of.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] We had, a Black man was accused simply because he resembled
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] uh, someone who stuc-, who held up, a, Seven Eleven, I think it was.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And even though he had witnesses that said that, uh, he was at work, and he had all sorts of character witnesses and what not,
[speaker002:] They still found him guilty?
[speaker001:] They found him guilty.
[speaker002:] When people said he was at work?
[speaker001:] Well, they said it w-, this, this happened during lunch time.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] And he could have disap-, gotten away at lunch time
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and committed the robbery.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But after nine years, well as a matter of fact they made a T V show about it, after nine years, they finally came up with evidence and proved, to prove that he was innocent.
[speaker002:] Oh, for heaven's sake. So there's nine years of that man's life gone.
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Now that just was not fair.
[speaker002:] No, huh-uh.
[speaker001:] So.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I guess that's where a lot of the problem lies, we're, we bend over backwards protecting the guilty people, the one's that are on trial.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] And,
[speaker001:] Unfortunately, that's what happens.
[speaker002:] And we often forget about the one the injustice has been done to, because I bet, they still say our system is the best in the world.
[speaker001:] Well, it's not, the, uh, uh, it's not the best system, but it's the best one in the world.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it's the best one that exists, I guess.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh. And unfortunately, we just have to put up with a lot of things, and they try to solve them and everything, but, uh, I don't know, the Supreme Court, well, I'm, I'm, I'm still rancled about their decision to permit burning of the flag.
[speaker002:] Oh, I think a lot of people are. I think they've lost sight of some things that are very important to our country.
[speaker001:] Well, it, the, the, the First Amendment definitely says freedom of speech
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] not freedom of action.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And, uh, uh, well that just rancles me no, I swear, if I ever saw somebody to, uh, burning a flag, I'd, I'd try to kill them, I would.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That bad, huh. I wouldn't like it, but I don't know if I'd go that far.
[speaker001:] Well, I happen to be a flag freak. I served, I was in the service
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I was in Korea
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] and, uh, well, I saw what the red in the flag represents.
[speaker002:] Yeah, well, I think pride in our country and our flag is so important. It's important in so many facets of our lives.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, uh, I, I feel like if they don't, people don't like what our flag stands for, they're welcome to go some place else.
[speaker001:] Yeah, see what they,
[speaker002:] There's nobody holding them here.
[speaker001:] See how they'd like it under another flag.
[speaker002:] Right. They'd soon be back, I'm sure.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Well, Jean, we seem to be of the same opinions here.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] I hope they get something out of this.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I don't know about the judge making the decision, if that's, do you think that's good
[speaker001:] Oh
[speaker002:] you know, like if a jury,
[speaker001:] passing sentence?
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well, uh, uh, yes, but I think the jury should be able to recommend,
[speaker002:] Make a recommendation?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Do they sometimes make a recommendation?
[speaker001:] Oh, yes, yes.
[speaker002:] That's what I was thinking they, they sometimes do.
[speaker001:] I don't know if that's a regular procedure or what. But I know I'm always hearing that, uh, well, the jury came in with a guilty verdict and they recommended,
[speaker002:] And they recommend.
[speaker001:] twenty years or something.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And then the judge has the final decision
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] on what does really happen. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Of course, now, the jury may not be completely aware of all the ramifications of a sentence.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] They may not know that if you give him twenty years he can get out in five.
[speaker002:] Well, I think that's where a lot of people think, boy they're getting put away for a long time, but actually, their chance, course, when, a lot of times when they come up for parole, they're denied. It depends on
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] you know, what they're, what they'd been guilty of, and a lot of different things, I guess.
[speaker001:] Yeah, but too many times they, they are permitted to go out on parole and,
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. A lot slip through the protective whatever they have to do. And there are bad ones that do slip back out and end up hurting somebody again.
[speaker001:] Yes. They just go out and repeat their crimes.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Well there, well, they say after three offenses its automatically life in prison, but I think they ought to make it two offenses.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh. I always thought there was, there was wrong, it seems sometimes that like somebody who is stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family got more jail sentence than somebody maybe that killed somebody.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] It seemed like there, sometimes there's not a good, the balance isn't right. It doesn't make sense.
[speaker001:] Yeah, very true. Well, here again now, there is where race seems to rear its ugly head so frequently.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh.
[speaker001:] Race or nationality even.
[speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah.
[speaker001:] [Pause] But, uh, like you said, it's, it's not the best system, but it's the best one we've got.
[speaker002:] Yeah, right. So, let's put up with it, I guess.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Improve it if we can, if we ever get a chance.
[speaker001:] Sure enough.
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] Jean, it's been awful nice talking to you.
[speaker002:] Well, it's been nice talking to you, Jack, and I hope you have a real good day and week.
[speaker001:] Well let's hope neither one of us ever has to run into this subject we were discussing.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I hope not.
[speaker001:] Take care now.
[speaker002:] You, too.
[speaker001:] Bye.
[speaker002:] Bye-bye.