[speaker001:] [Noise] Okay. So what are your opinions on it?
[speaker002:] Well, let me preface it. I'm a, I was a staff officer in Vietnam, in sixty-nine and seventy
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I'm in active reserve now, so, uh, I'm probably not going to have the you think I would have.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, it's, I was an interesting, in that I think that he gave the American people some, uh, uh, a sense of the fact that, that, uh, wars are really run by politicians. *I -] It??
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] Uh, I, are you old enough to remember the war?
[speaker001:] N-, not much. I'm twenty-eight, so. No. I really don't remember anything about it. I guess I was about ten when it ended. Right?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I was born in sixty-two, so when did it end?
[speaker002:] Well, December seventy-two, was when we bombed North Vietnam, and then they released the prisoners in early seventy-three,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] in that, in that time frame.
[speaker001:] Because, I was ten, and I don't remember a lot about anything at that time in my life very much in,
[speaker002:] I think,
[speaker001:] great detail.
[speaker002:] the, the significant thing is, is today did, did you, uh, did you see Barbara Walters interview with Schwartzkopf?
[speaker001:] No. I didn't,
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] but I, I did read the book. I ha-, do ha-, I have six years of college, so I did read, and study about the Vietnam war though. So I am pretty fa-, you know, I'm more,
[speaker002:] Well, wha-, what's
[speaker001:] familiar with it than,
[speaker002:] your perspective on it?
[speaker001:] Mine. I think, uh, I think that there was a lot of rebellion in our nation, and that, I think it was the right thing to do, to try and not to take away, to, you know, just leave their freedoms there [NOISE] and to, you know, get rid of some of the atrocities that were going to. I don't, I don't know, I don't really, I'm tired of pacifist though, *pacifist -] pacifists? see on the other hand, I'm a pac-, I'm really struggling with it. Am I a pacifist, physical pacifist, I'm a Christian, and I believe that the real warfare is not with Saddam Hussein, or the North Vietnamese, but it's in spiritual kingdoms, and that the real warfare is done, you know, in your prayer closet, on your knees. So, in a way, in a sense I'm a pacifist, but I'm really not. You know what I'm saying?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] I don't think just lay back and not do anything. I think, lets go to war, *lets -] let's but let's go to war praying, and let's go to war for that way so,
[speaker002:] Well, well, the difficulty I have, is that, uh, are we our neighbor's keepers.
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] And, this is what I find particularly difficult in that, uh, if we see injustice, and weather it's in a, uh, you know, Chicago, or, uh, *typo weather -] whether
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] or, or Dallas, I, I think if we see it, you know, we see John Wiley Price hollering injustice, I think that's wrong. Now the question is, is was there injustice in Vietnam, or was,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] there injust in Iraq Kuwait, *typo injustice?
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] [Noise] the difficult, I, point is, is to, where do we step in, and, uh,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and, I think that we, that's, that's the part I have difficulty, and the, the other part is, that the, the, when, when your, when your, when your looking at Vietnam, and you say, well, is fifty-eight thousand lives worth it. *3 typos your -] you're And,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I don't know that anything is worth fifty-eight thousand lives.
[speaker001:] Still have a problem with, uh, you know, I haven't come to an absolute conclusion on my opinion on this, but, and I know other Christians would disagree with me. My husband and I, are kind of not even in agreement on this, but we don't fight over it or anything, but, you know, how can, you know, the Bible says bless your enemies and bless those that curse you, and it's like, be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, kind, so it's like how can you, I don't know, for me, I don't know, you know, I can't say that I agree with Vietnam, because how can you be gentle unto all men, and, and then shoot them.
[speaker002:] Well, the,
[speaker001:] So,
[speaker002:] other issue is, is, is how do you allow, uh, how, how do you allow injustice. Just like the, the policeman in, in Los Angeles
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] how could, how could, could you stand there and watch them beat that guy. If your brother or your sister were being beaten,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] by the authorities do we step in? Well. In some cases we would, and I, I think that's what makes it so difficult.
[speaker001:] Yeah. It is a difficult thing. But then, vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, and I will pay. So, I think God is ultimately in charge of what goes on, and I know, like now in China he did all these terrible things, *probably Mao and they were te-, terrible, and he was going to be accountable for them, and, but if you look back, and you say wait a minute, while he was in power, he built roads, he put in all the temples, he, he unified the Chinese language. It was impossible for missionaries to do, accomplish anything in China
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] because of all that, and so even in North and South Vietnam, I bet you'd see the same thing, and that now he builds roads so, then it and then he dropped dead, twenty-five years premature, he dropped dead, and so something good did come out of that, in that now, you see what I mean, if like now,
[speaker002:] Yeah. But, but the other, the other difficulty is, is that it's just, if, if you take the to, to feed my sheep
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and the question is, who are my sheep, and the idea, do we go out and feed these people when they're hungry.
[speaker001:] Well. Bless your enemies, if your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he, if he needs your, asks for your shirt, give him your coat also. So, if the,
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] the, the, the South Vietnamese, they asked us to help them. Right? Is that right?
[speaker002:] Yes. Uh, they did, but, I think the biggest difficulty is, is that when your at an economy like South Vietnam, well, the, then reality, uh, the, the poor farmer, the poor rice farmer, was going to pay taxes *your -] you're
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and the question is, who was he going to pay it to?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Uh, the communists are the, all alleged democrats. Uh,
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] democratic formed government, and I, I think that's, I think, I think, uh, that's a little, was a difficult part, there, and, and, I, we didn't understand the culture. We couldn't, uh, we had, uh, we had a, a young lady that was fourteen that worked on our, in the unit I was commander of, that appeared to be eight or nine years old, and, and the people looked like children
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] I mean, you couldn't imagine that one would, would, would conceal a bomb and
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and do these kind of things. I think socially, it really destroyed a lot of the people that, that went over and saw these people. You just couldn't believe that they would, that they would be mean, and, and, and, and drop bombs and kill people, and then
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] we would turn around and, and nay palm them, you know, *typo napalm if
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] and I think there was a lot of, a lot of tearing of emotions, and I think that if anything, that, when he was saying the idea that we learned, we l-, we learned a lot from Vietnam
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] now, it was, it was in general, bad, but, and, I don't know, the problem is now, I'm, I'm concerned a little bit,
[speaker001:] [Throat clearing].
[speaker002:] that now that the gulf war is on, that we're going, I think it was a good war, and it was okay
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] to go beat up on people, and I think that, I think we need to, a little more justice at home. I'm not sure how we get that, [LAUGHTER] wonder if there's a connection there, but,
[speaker001:] Yeah. But then again, yeah, I'd say it is wrong to and I'm not saying president Bush made the wrong decision. I think I'm lacking in my, I don't think I can come to a complete conclusion on how I feel about the Vietnam war, because I'm going to interpret that, through the Bible, and I've kind of always, I've been a Christian five years, and I've kind of avoided that, that, those, the war things, and how God approaches that because I think it's just now coming up to where I really feel like I need to, come, you know, need to decide,
[speaker002:] Well, the difficulty is
[speaker001:] what I feel.
[speaker002:] is if you look in the old test meat, and in the numbers of places that, uh, the Lord went out and just simply struck down, *old test meat Old Testament and that was part of the problem, when they went into the promise land, * should be promised land
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] that they, that they, uh, they didn't destroy everybody,
[speaker001:] Right. They
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] left a woman, and a child, and a,
[speaker002:] And,
[speaker001:] the sheep. Yeah.
[speaker002:] and that, that, you know, and you, I think that's one of those things when we get to heaven we're going to ask God [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] I know.
[speaker002:] Why did you do it that way [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But then again, though Jesus the grace pushes you beyond the law, you know what I'm saying, like, so he didn't just say, don't kill your, don't kill your enemies, but, not only don't kill them, bless them. You know, and so, therefore when we have an enemy come against us, I really feel like, that, I really feel like, I know I do feel this strongly, that when, if we had someone come and attack us, the best way to handle it would be to bless them, and humbly go to their other king, or the other ruler, and say, what have we done to offend you. What can we do to rectify this situation, and that God would move in that sovereignly,
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] and he would get the glory, though, no king, no, Bush wouldn't, because it wouldn't make any sense, you know what are I'm saying?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It would look absolutely, ridiculously stupid, but it would work out, because, if you follow the scriptural principals, it's going to work out, because those are, that's the best way to do it, you know, *spelling principle but the thing is, is that then God gets the glory, not a president, not a king, and I think that's a problem for a lot of politicians, is they want the glory.
[speaker002:] Well, and, I, I, and even if the, even at the local level, when somebody's assaulted
[speaker001:] Uh-huh.
[speaker002:] what do you do, turn the other cheek?
[speaker001:] N-, well, I believe, personally, I ho-, I [LAUGHTER] I woman always says, my husband always goes three that, I guess. Yeah, if the one, if somebody broke in my house, I would pray that I would have this faith, ta-, to, to take authority over that, and I know people that have done that. I mean, I know that there have been people who have had people break in their homes, and just say I bind you in Jesus name, your, n-, I just, and rebuke any enemy, because I believe it's a spiritual war that's going on, and it's not normal for someone to come into someone elses home, that's not normal, there's something going on there, and that I would have discernment by the holy spirit to deal with pride over that. Do you see what I mean?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And then the same in Vietnam, you would, you wouldn't handle Vietnam the same way, you would handle, uh, Saddam Houssein. *Hussein But, I was, I have a problem with all the killing, but I'm not a new ager, I don't believe I am not for one world government. I'm not for all these new age things. I, I, you know, I don't have a problem with, uh, national identity, and, I'm an American, and having different nations, and all of this. But, I'm concerned about the killing that went on there, because I just feel like God has a better way to handle it, than that, and...