[speaker001:] so what do you think
[speaker002:] okay well that's a pretty loaded topic well here in um
[speaker001:] absolutely
[speaker002:] hang on just a second the dog is barking okay here in Oklahoma we just went through a uh major educational reform we're uh that was a hot topic
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] uh part of the problem had been there wasn't enough spent on education the classes were too large
[speaker001:] uh-huh
[speaker002:] and we recently well we're we're through a proposition now where they're limiting class size to about twenty two I think and they've increased salaries and just done a major revision
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah are your um schools paid for primarily with your real estate tax
[speaker002:] yes yeah it's just about all
[speaker001:] yeah what for a typical middle class house uh what kind of annual tax do you pay
[speaker002:] oh well actually the actually it isn't just I I said yes and it really isn't we
[speaker001:] well I know it's split federal and so forth
[speaker002:] we also well no we have a uh an excise tax on cars our car tags are very expensive average taxes are very low on real estate probably in the five to six hundred dollar a year range
[speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum they are oh okay okay because um over here um you could pay between four and eight thousand dollars a year
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and um I'd be surprised if we're getting something that was ten times as good as what you're getting
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] matter of fact I'll bet it's not as good
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] um my feeling is that there you know while there are certain problems where you know being able to buy a new set of books or a new piece of equipment may be valuable by and large that correlation between the amount of money you shovel in and the quality of education doesn't seem to be that strong
[speaker002:] yeah I I do have to tend to agree with you the only other problem with that is that it's difficult to attract people into the teaching profession
[speaker001:] well again I don't know what it's like on your side of the fence um over here
[speaker002:] hm
[speaker001:] um teachers' salaries aren't bad uh they're not executive type salaries although if you're a teacher whose been at it for fifteen twenty years uh you can retire when you when you reach the top level it's not bad at all it's quite good
[speaker002:] yeah yeah I think that's that's the other thing here the benefits are very good for teachers where
[speaker001:] um yeah thing is there are nonfinancial there there should be nonfinancial benefits to teaching that I think we've managed to squash out of the system um it used to be thirty years ago being a teacher was a uh position of respect you were educating the young
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] um now it seems that you know now the the joke of the year is you know those who can't teach
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] and um you know so something went wrong somewhere along the line and I think it's felt both by the people in the educational profession and those outside there's a wonderful book by a fellow named Charles Murray called In Pursuit of Happiness
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] and he discusses what he feels is wrong with the educational system and um he even offers some suggestions for improvements uh one of the points he makes is he feels that any attempt to fix the problems uh whatever the nature of the reform is the administration of the reform will be captured by the union and rendered ineffective
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] in other words if you decide that you're gonna pump another ten percent money in it'll right eventually filter down it filters it's way around to the most firmly entrenched teachers with no regard to their skill level um if you provide other benefits they'll eventually work their way around to more firmly entrench the problems not to resolve them I'm not sure I agree with him completely but he makes some interesting points
[speaker002:] yeah that does I I think though you hit the the nail on the head when you when you said it's the attitude more than anything of the teacher profession the teaching profession um
[speaker001:] um-hum yeah
[speaker002:] and that that's something you really can't change even with money
[speaker001:] well it did change the thing to do is find out uh why um because uh you know there was a time when the teacher was a respected individual and something changed um and intrinsically intrinsically the ideas you know um training our
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] the youth of the country to be uh mature productive responsible citizens is potentially a uh a very um what's the right word um it's potentially a very rewarding not rewarding but uh it should be a respected profession so the question about asking is not why does no why isn't it but well it should be what's preventing it from being respected
[speaker002:] yeah right right it's a it's a pretty big responsibility I mean to to teach
[speaker001:] now absolutely absolutely I have a wife who substitute teaches and um she brings home some interesting stories uh but the thing that you know I I hate falling into the trap of back when I was a kid
[speaker002:] um-hum
[speaker001:] uh I'm just saying that but the thing that changed is
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] um back when I was a kid you know maybe hated the teacher maybe you didn't do your work but you respected or at least feared the teacher