[speaker001:] Okay, if you'd like to push on. Just for those of you who have just arrived, we're actually recording this session as part of a... a large spoken database which is gonna be part of a national archive... and so you're being recorded for posterity. We've got a translator for Roger... so they will be able to understand him.
[Roger:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] . Okay?
[Roger:] So that you're gonna database then. Erm right! Er Martin see, sends his apologies I'll be actually chairing the meeting for him. Erm so... so if you'd like to... kick off. What I'd like to do is go through the minutes of the last meeting. First, for a matter of record... and each other accurate, accurately recollect... oh we're actually taping this. So if anybody would like to shout out if there's not... an accurate... well if somebody actually listened to it. Onto page one... page two... page three... page four... and five. So we all agree that's a... accurate, vaguely accurate reflection of what happened? Okay. I'd like to go back to the minutes in terms of matters arising which don't arise under the... the agenda items.... On page one I think that we will record the.... Mm!... On page two I think the first thing was, was the erm... results of the air conditioning on... Wellesey House... is still omitted.
[Norman:] Yes. Yeah, I'm
[Roger:] Still be waiting on them?
[Norman:] Well... we've, we've had interim... or final interim reports... and wishing now that Whiskers... are actually gonna look at Dixons for me.
[Roger:] Mhm.
[Norman:] but erm... we're nearly there.
[Roger:] Okay.
[Steve:] Put against the letters that I wrote they've all been sent out. I've actually got thirty one copies of at the moment. But it's interesting to know that a lot of the copies... either must have copies, which they should have... or that they know what bin it.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Steve:] It should be a long drawn out process.
[Roger:] And I'm sure you'll find a way Steve.
[Steve:] Very long, drawn out process.
[Roger:] Mhm. With regard to any regulations on fire precautions... erm... department... well the government is sitting on those, it's unlikely they will be out much before January of next year. As soon as I get a draft I'll I'll... let you know... what the... perfections are. Okay fine. Now, V D U and eye tests I'll take over the main primary agenda. Just to give you an update of price.
[Norman:] My next comment about erm... concerning... it's getting... saving tables and the like... we've actually... er agreed accommodation schedule for this year... and that's following fro from some changes in Customer Services o, in July. So, er... to programme a new network.
[Roger:] In terms of review of staggered hours... erm... the review is sort of a constant one which has not really come to head yet, in terms of actually being able to write something down, so I'm we'll be able to... as soon as we, as soon I've something which we... erm, come to any conclusions in terms of staggered hours.
[Norman:] The, one about the security guard, Bill... he, he's now made arrangements for... the attendance... a first aid... er, meetings.
[Roger:] Mm. That is, in actual fact, a bit difficult for Mm. at the moment, you can appreciate Mm, mm mm. cos if he... he's on a twelve hour shift... and, those meetings tend to... be... have been around the same sort of time, then obviously, what we've gotta be careful about is, adding any more hours Mm. onto what he's already... taken on here. So that's, what we've got to understand is that. Mm. I think obviously, need to be making an appearance now than Yep. Mm. Suzanne you... you're reporting Martin?
[Suzanne:] Yes.
[Roger:] Back in the index of bulletins. Erm
[Suzanne:] Erm, Paula
[Roger:] Paula
[speaker001:] Twenty four.
[Suzanne:] Yeah, erm... she's nearly finished it, Paula, and... and it will be issued shortly... that.
[Roger:] Mm. Okay, it goes onto the main primary agenda for most of the time.
[Norman:] Moving onto safety, am I right?
[Roger:] Yes. Mm.
[Norman:] We did at erm... we've actually erm... sorted the issue abo, out about erm... gritting the car park. It erm... security are actually carrying it out and clearing the best positions... to, to do so.
[Roger:] Right.
[Norman:] Then, er overnight. They've also issued to me the appropriate... er protective equipment as well and so that er... they don't... you know, so I'll assume that is on the way.
[Roger:] Good! And we've al, we've also
[speaker001:] Sorry!
[Roger:] Sorry carry on. and also erm... spoken to the police in relation to emergency evacuation in the back. The police have sor, have got a copy of our emergency evacuation procedures, at the moment we're waiting for them... to return it to us. Once they've done that then... we shall take the appropriate action needed. Right! Erm, if there's anything else?
[speaker001:] Well there's the,?
[Roger:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[Roger:] John, did you get any reply from the police on that?
[speaker001:] Well, yeah, I spoke to them like, on the telephone, erm... and... basically they er... and we agreed that we wouldn't take it any further... so... it er... happened to be a police officer's view... as against our view, and whilst we didn't agree with the view, er... we sent enough references to make our point known anyway. So you can take it up with the, the er... do whatever he felt necessary, but we left it at that. Erm, I mean the point the police have made has been addressed,
[Roger:] Right.
[speaker001:] but the reasons why have er
[Roger:] Okay.
[speaker001:] I'd like permission.
[Roger:] Mm.
[speaker001:] [whispering] I think that's supposed to mean... something, I dunno []! [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Yes, it's... yeah,.
[speaker001:] Well the next point is between Roger and... John, I didn't understand at all so could you [LAUGHTER] Good!!
[Roger:] I think someone's already John! Maybe you'll like this one? At erm... that's... that big lighting is there... on the basis that if the switch goes down we should have a number of telephones that still have to be available... erm and... we need to identify them... suggested by a red telephone, or using a red telephone situated somewhere. Er, and the issue was yes, we need some... for emergency use... and erm... we will also need proba, probably need some for business use. I... have spoken Joe, and I sent a memo to... a copy to Martin... er, suggesting where these should be placed and how they should be dealt with. And er... we're now sort of waiting... to get serious enough. Yeah. Mm. Okay, so have gone down there to... emphasize the importance of accidents. Erm, I'll take down the other, the main agenda cos we've... we've sort of set up a special group for the....
[Norman:] And the next point... on the... on the number of things that are being reported in... the accident books. Erm... I've in fact, become a bit of a artist on, on accident book, and between the nineteen of June ninety two... and sixteen and September, er December rather... there were twenty two... complaints logged about sickness, diarrhoea, sore throat, sore, and headaches, from the first floor... erm, of which... twenty of these complaints were from females, and two were from males. And it is er
[speaker001:] It's not very popular! [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] Indeed not!
[Roger:] Let's hear this out.
[Norman:] Merely presenting it in er... as analysis. I actually dissuaded er
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Carmel:] What's the proportion of females on that floor?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] Er, good question! Actually noticed, with an inkling of as well. So er... she was the one who pointed that fact to me.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I wouldn't have worked it out, so... erm
[Peter:] Stop digging will you!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] There haven't been any other erm... any other areas... er, of complaint with er
[Roger:] Mm.
[Norman:] i er in tha, in that... on the second or third floors... but I did, in fact, look at the first, second and third floors to get a comparison. Erm, the conditions were... erm... slightly different on the second floor, in the sense that... there were a few, few people and a few items of equipment... erm, and there is a relatively great density of staff on the first floor... than I would have found. But, if we then, we then considered... non air conditioning explanations... erm... which, I don't want to go into but... there's all sorts of text that one could... mention. But... if we look at the air conditioning explanations... we... we reckon that the conditions likely to lead to sickness... and, and the related illnesses that were mentioned... er... was, the low humidity... that... that we thought might er, be in the area... erm, because it dries out the and enables viruses... to enter the body more... more easily. And the, the other one... was... the... potentially reduce ventilation... because, erm, the the insufficient air supply, air flow within that area means that... the airborne viruses aren't getting shifted fast enough. And, we also face with a... a certain stance there where... if people... blame, er, turn round to us and say... there's a draft here... because er, the air conditioning's working they don't wanna sit in a draft. We have, in the past, switched the air conditioning down... which reduces the ventilation which means... creates, makes the situation worse. Erm, there's
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Norman:] there's two elements in relation to the air conditioning itself, er... spreading viruses, and we... take two preventative actions... one of which is that we spray all the air conditioning ducts work quarterly... with, what's known, as a virucide and... I relate that to the equivalent of sticking a... a toilet block in the toilet, it kills all... all known airborne germs sort of thing.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] And the other thing is, is that all the air... that... is within the building is directly supplied from outside the building... and is then extracted... extracted to the exterior of the building. We don't actually recirculate the air within the building, so there's no business of... people on the second floor giving germs to people on the first floor, and then people... giving germs to people on the ground floor. So, those are the actions that we actually take with the air conditioning itself. Erm
[Roger:] Can I just so, can I still
[Norman:] the
[Roger:] pick them up? Sorry!
[Norman:] Yeah, sorry! I was looking at actions
[Roger:] Yeah.
[Norman:] next
[Roger:] Yeah.
[Norman:] but if you've got any questions on that front?
[Roger:] Mm. A, just a question of whether the... sorry, you've done all these statistics, whether actually the first floor was, seemed to be a problem? Statistically.
[Norman:] Well... ah, that's one of the things I'm leading to.
[Roger:] Mm.
[Norman:] This was, this was, if you like... a record of the eye approach, we went round, we felt the air and... erm, er made judgement, in the same that people like to be making judgements
[Roger:] Mm.
[Norman:] about how stuffy it is, and the like... when we agreed that is was... erm... not as good as it could be, may I just say... erm, but we haven't got any, if you like,... er statistical measurement, and one of the actual points that were starting to do now... is we're actually going to start reporting tu, temperature and humidity on the first, second, and third floors within G P House. And we're gonna start publishing that information. In actual fact,
[Steve:] Can I just ask why you're ignoring us lot on the ground floor?
[Norman:] Why?
[Peter:] Well you've
[Steve:] I mean
[Peter:] got the doors open... presumably!
[speaker001:] I don't know why you're getting so! [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] Because, I'm responding directly to... accident... books, and similar conditions.
[Steve:] Ah, I see!
[Norman:] And the conditions on the ground floor are somewhat different.
[Roger:] Cos it's mainly men on the ground floor they don't
[Steve:] I see, yes!
[Roger:] complain you see!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I think I've been sadistically grouped! [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] Erm
[Roger:] But er
[Norman:] but erm... anyway... I've forgotten what I was saying now.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] I be, so one of the things we're gonna do is publish that information on a regular basis. Erm... and we have in fact, done some tests on the first and second floor since... we did this eye test... and... er, humidity is in fact, within the... the er... the Health and Safety legislation, it's within tolerance. Presumably the temperatures are too. But, one of things that we are discovering is that when people complain about drafts... er, we've been switching the air conditioning up and down to balance it up to suit the individuals needs. What we may have to do is actually balance the air conditioning's needs up... to suit... the building, if you like, rather than individuals concerned, and then we'll have to address the individuals concerns the same, in terms of moving the desk, or moving the person... if they're in a draft. Erm, and we also need obviously, to educate people there. The consequences of them wanting the drafts to be turned down. Because, if we don't actually ventilate the building... then, we're not actually gonna solve the problem.
[Roger:] Mhm.
[Norman:] And we're gonna get hot spots and cold spots.
[Roger:] Fine. In terms of your research on the... the action book itself, or th, or the reports or whatever... you said, sorry, there's nineteen on the first floor you say?
[Norman:] I gave you a copy of the notes actually, Mark.
[Roger:] No, no you said at the start of this.
[Norman:] There's erm... there's twenty... beg your pardon, there's twenty two complaints
[Roger:] Right.
[Norman:] that we had in a six month period.
[Roger:] Yeah.
[Norman:] of which... er er, that was to do with sickness, diarrhoea, sore throats, sore
[Roger:] [cough]
[Norman:] dizziness, headaches
[Roger:] Right.
[Norman:] which could be air conditioning related.
[Roger:] Right! We don't know whether they're on, they're on the first, second or third?
[Norman:] That's just the first floor.
[Roger:] They were all on the first floor Mark.
[Norman:] No complaints on the second floor, or the third floor, or the ground floor.
[Carmel:] What?
[Roger:] Well that's fairly sig titi fa, significant innit? One of the four floors has a got a problem. Yeah.
[Carmel:] Roger, wasn't I... correct in thinking that Paula was also going to look at... erm... not just accident reports, other sickness for the area, to actually
[Roger:] Yeah I I did look at it from... from... from after Christmas and there have been no complaints at all, in the accident book... up until the eighteenth of March... that were of that nature. There was a Mm mm. exact Ten of that eleven people in the last two weeks, sort of, complaining about but they don't always... let me know so that I can document it, that's the problem. Yeah. Where is that, still on the fou, first floor? Oh yeah. So Mainly in F two and F three rooms.
[Carmel:] It's now, like the stomach cramp rather than
[Roger:] Mm.
[Carmel:] and... it's not people that have eaten, not... [LAUGHTER] certainly not the restaurant [], what should I say
[Roger:] It's the food, the food!
[Carmel:] but they're not actually, having been to lunch and
[Roger:] Yeah.
[Carmel:] I know, for a fact, one person us, never uses canteen at
[speaker001:] One?
[Roger:] Well it's, yeah
[speaker001:] One.
[Roger:] I mean the problem is, I mean, that the significance of the com, the sort of the numbers of those are still particularly low Mm. and trying to... one was... one would assume, that to a certain extent, if you've got a problem with air conditioning that we would... we would have a higher, a higher incidence... of erm... of those sort of complaints. Mm. And we don't. No, what I'm saying is, I don't think from the accident book you're getting a true picture because people don't always report it, they'll be off several days afterwards. Right. Just don't compla, I just wondered whether that was actually
[Norman:] Ah, yeah, again
[Roger:] But the information we
[Norman:] all
[Roger:] do have does amount to something. And something
[Norman:] Well it's something that we're prepared to actually act on here is
[Roger:] Yeah.
[Norman:] erm, the thing about it is... is that... I mean, one of... we we've at the minute we've been faced with... with some individuals... reckoning that they have er... rashes forming... around the face... er... in a number of areas... and there's... an indication that, and it's nothing more than that, that it could actually be to do with the laser printers and people sitting near them... in the light. People suffering from dry skin, but it's the only wo, odd one case or another that actually reported, but it... we don't know how widespread these things are.
[Roger:] We've had Wintams in...
[Norman:] But they're actually, they actually
[Roger:] last week.
[Norman:] made out a thermal comfort test... on G P House... over the last few days... er, and we're now awaiting their results.
[Roger:] And that's really to look at, the sort of the, the dry skin... issues and so on? I think the thing we've gotta be careful about, is also trying to er... i if we... ask everybody put all their analysis as such, we could start thinking... panicking or whatever Mhm. for all the wrong reasons, so we're trying to sort of pick a number of tests which will determine whether there's a problem with air conditioning and it's humidity or... or er... or if the temperature. And if we can pin those down, and as Roger said, we've also now, over the last few weeks co begun carrying out erm... regular testing two or three times a day now on each of the floors and looking at the humidity Mm. in there. And we've gotta,wha what we'll do we'll get those set up at the... sort of... the appropriate working temperatures, and working humidity and then we will have to deal with people on an individual basis, if basically, they're uncomfortable because of draft or whatever it might be. I think that's what we're aiming to do now, get things set up as a standard... er, operating... erm, levels, having done that... then we begin
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Roger:] to isolate them.
[speaker001:] Oh sure!
[Roger:] As I say I'm... [LAUGHTER]... I'm not convinced that it's air conditioning... erm, but then again... there's more detail, more data that's required. Next twenty,. Mm. I mean, if they want,. So essentially, what you're saying is we've got the erm... the sort of environmental checks in... place, to help Yes indeed! track down,ho, home Yeah. home in on the
[Norman:] Yes.
[Roger:] But it will take time.
[Norman:] Eventually.
[Roger:] And I've done myself a on that reckoning, because until we've got that sorted anyway.
[Norman:] Wintams actually... er quarterly check the air... within G P House, and the water within G P House.
[Roger:] Mm.
[Norman:] And erm... to that extent... we can respond very rapidly if... those results aren't within the, the limits... defined. And we've never had... any problems in that area at all, so, to that extent. We are taking, if you like, all preventative medsi, medicine we need to take... and... always difficult to in fact, to pin these things down.
[Roger:] Mm. Is there any er, other things anybody wants to... ah John, did you want?
[speaker001:] No.
[Roger:] What I was gonna suggest is that, we actually put something in the bulletin, not in the sense of, well, you know... please report your illnesses kind of thing, but... if we just make people aware of actually this sort of environmental control thing would be a good idea. Yeah, I think that's a fair comment. And the and the measures that we're here, that's a good idea actually!
[Peter:] Been my major struggle for a long time now.
[Roger:] Yeah. Mm.... Mm! Mostly definite the restaurant.
[Katie:] [LAUGHTER] What have I done []!
[Peter:] Not bad! We would do it!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Okay, move... on to first aid. Do we know whether we have the updated
[Katie:] Yes we have.
[Roger:] We have.
[Peter:] On the erm... there won't be the first aid room over the... we're looking to move that to the first floor.
[Roger:] Oh I'm sorry! Can you speak up then?
[Peter:] Oh sorry! Have I...
[Roger:] Mm mm.
[Peter:] Have they liaised with you?
[Katie:] Not yet, no. Ha!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Peter:] [LAUGHTER] That's alright then []!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Katie:] I gave the list to... Martin... at the last meeting. And attendance is much better cos I think... the message is finally getting across now.
[Roger:] Sorry! Can you... er mm.
[Peter:] Yeah, just saying that when we move the erm... the first aid room to the, to the first floor... from House.
[Roger:] That's a definite is it?
[Peter:] Erm, yes. I erm... as much as anything else so that we don't block a fire exit on the gro, on, in the basement.
[Roger:] Mm. Mm. Have you seen the timetable for that.
[Peter:] Er no, not yet.
[Roger:] I'm sure you'll tell us er
[Peter:] Yeah.
[Roger:] Okay, fire?
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Roger:] Involving the fire, the exit th there, we actually talked about... er, issuing a memo to all the branches... and telling them there ought not be electrical equipment on overnight. Mhm.
[Peter:] I counted something like... and at the moment it appertains just to the telephone system and regard to the enquiry system. And... but, very shortly the branches are gonna be... getting some more appropriate, and it's gonna be a lot more that needs to be se... sort of kept on overnight.
[Roger:] Mm.
[Peter:] But it might be more appropriate to wait until... nearer the time to send a memo, I don't know. Erm... on the audit side both Karen and I have been round to all the branches in order to deal with our old equipment. Erm... on October ninety four I'll be, guess there won't be any old prices in the.
[Roger:] You've been round to all the branches?
[Peter:] Yeah. It's... on, on a different project but we were
[Roger:] Mm.
[Peter:] incorporating that on the way round.
[Roger:] With regard to leaving... electrical equipment on overnight, Mark, erm... once or twice... be nice if you already be bought it to my attention that people are leaving things on... erm, now, when we've had this discussion that most of these... items are safe. But erm... I th... they are worried... certainly, one or two of them are worried, but er... some of this equipment is left on, and left on unnecessarily... and we ought to be encouraging people to switch off what isn't
[speaker001:] That's right.
[Roger:] doesn't have to be left on overnight. Erm, sort of a general memo about the, just er literally... good housekeeping if nothing else. If you're not using the equipment... or you don't need to use the equipment overnight then please turn it off. Mm. Er Presumably you get some card license installed, so... mind you, you'd the outcome!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Erm, yes I think, I think, you know, immediately you're thinking of doing it the branches and obviously you're running po, pretty big in
[Peter:] Mm.
[Roger:] the way I see it, anyway, you know, if there are... things that are meant to be left on. Er, as far the... these building are concerned... I think your point is valid, I mean, I think probably printers, I think that you suggest are left on... because you never know when it'll be to. Er, only got one persons Assume the responsibility? But, other than that, yeah... I think you're right. Presumably with an arrow, you have to Mark, Mark. I think there are some things Mark that have to be left on
[Peter:] Mm.
[Roger:] as an necessity there... for all these... working overnight. But those that aren't... erm... should be switched off and whether there's a way Mm. of sort of having some kind Perhaps I'll, perhaps I'll liaise with Chris Yeah. through his team and see how it, see if there's Yeah. anything you also probably need to liaise with erm... probably with Mike Yeah. and you know, find out what they're doing, but... general. I've gotta liaise with the information centre in... the computer centre tomorrow... see if there's any guidelines we could probably use.
[speaker001:] There may be some kind of notice on them that says, you know, these machines should not be switched and then everything would be switched off.
[Roger:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] If they came round
[Peter:] Mm.
[speaker001:] I mean, that's the sort of thing. It's
[Roger:] Yeah, our ones' actually got something on, especially one of the machines it's got little spots across the screen saying do not.
[speaker001:] Do not switch off.
[Peter:] Switch off.
[speaker001:] Yeah! But I mean
[Roger:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] so they wouldn't switch it off.
[Roger:] But are others Still, still switch off!
[speaker001:] Oh do they? [LAUGHTER] But they're very! [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Okay, fine! Okay. Onto any other business. Ah sorry! Have you... done the, done the agenda? Mm. Finished that. I think Pa Paula on the 's information. Er... she said it was done. And she did check, and we weren't telling them, no we did? Mm. Do you think it's a representative coming to this meeting rather than just simply
[Steve:] think they actually go off site
[Roger:] the information?
[Steve:] in places like
[speaker001:] I presume, I presume that they, they'd be the only one.
[Roger:] Oh right!
[speaker001:] Yes.
[Norman:] The th
[Roger:] Ye Yep!
[Norman:] The collapsing chair
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] is erm... is a mystery! And it's not just a mystery to me, but a mystery to the individual I spoke to. Er... the chair being the offender, given the chair that collapsed underneath her... er, she couldn't, or she couldn't... explain to me how the chair managed to collapse underneath her! So, I'm afraid I wasn't able to do a great to do a great deal more on that. The only thing I would say is, is that... we're looking to... er start in the next quarter... various plans for maintenance routines... one of which will be o, actually on furniture. Er, there's a number of issues that will start cropping up with furniture fairly soon. And, it's things like that I ne, hope and anticipate that we can actually. I can only guess that... for erm... some reason... the bolts on the back of the chair fell off, or came lose... and when she sat on it... she leaned on the back, in an unusual position... and fell through!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Mm mm. Mhm. Okay. Let's go onto COSHE regulations. We've had a meeting on COSHE and we've sort of put the erm... the... revisions of COSHE into, into action. Basically this is updating the original COSHE, COSHE re register. And Katie is the only one that sent a reply back! That's very prompt of you Katie!
[Suzanne:] Gold star!
[Steve:] Okay, point taken!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Suzanne:] I don't think the date was due actually was, wasn't it?
[Roger:] No, it's not yet. It's erm, the week
[Suzanne:] Yeah.
[Roger:] of... let's look in my diary. If ever that's forgotten, once that's done, again it will be erm... the up-to-date part of the... COSHE.... And the fire and train records, I'm not sure where.
[speaker001:] Well, the meeting that we're doing, all branch
[Roger:] Mm.
[speaker001:] probably
[Roger:] Mm.
[speaker001:] . And I'll take that... management one.
[Roger:] No, er dust mites?
[speaker001:] Yeah, er can I go back to this point before
[Roger:] Mm mm.
[speaker001:] about erm...... I've actually got some... some cleansing wipes for, for
[Suzanne:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] I was actually going to... give to you Sue, so that you could test them but I understand you've already got some new ones?
[Suzanne:] Yeah. You're talking about to send some aren't you?
[speaker001:] Yeah. I'll, I'll drop that off with you today... later on.
[Suzanne:] Fine.
[Roger:] What exactly is the intention... i in the...?
[speaker001:] Well, we'll see how much instigated first.
[Roger:] Are they not in
[speaker001:] Cos they won't be used to just
[Suzanne:] ... cleaning telephones up like that one!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Foot and mouth []! [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Well how many joint telephones are there? Sorry? How many joint telephones can you have? There seem to be a number in Client Services.
[Suzanne:] Yeah.
[Dianne:] Mm.
[Suzanne:] In some teams there's
[Roger:] It's obviously
[Suzanne:] about four
[Roger:] Oh!
[Suzanne:] people share a phone.
[Roger:] Yeah. Mm. [LAUGHTER] Sorry? That's what I used to do with them! Yes. Now that you've gone. Well
[speaker001:] I'll talk to Sue about that one! Right, Sue's gonna have two goes next time.
[Roger:] Still haven't told me what I've gotta do with them!
[Suzanne:] We could try it on our floor couldn't we?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Suzanne:] See how we get on.
[Roger:] Mm. What exactly are you trying? That the people complaining they so sore throats, sickness and diarrhoea!
[speaker001:] That's exactly what... been the problem down there.
[Roger:] Oh! Oh it's good money
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Roger:] telephones!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] You can go and have a look.
[Roger:] Especially where those people are passing the germs down the telephone! It's a good idea, but I don't... really see what you're actually sort of measuring. Have been
[speaker001:] Well I wasn't here, so I won't take any of the blame for this at all! [LAUGHTER] It's a really good job whether yo sa sa say so or not! It could be sort of spread throughout the company.
[Norman:] May maybe a hygiene requirement...?
[Roger:] What, sickness and diarrhoea? It's to provide, to provide people with the opportunity use the wipes if they require as a safety precaution.
[speaker001:] Oh we'll sort it out anyway, Sue shall we? [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] Right! On the dust mites
[Roger:] On the dust mites, yeah.
[Norman:] Erm... the cleaning of the carpets on the first and second floors erm... they obviously... fumigate them... erm, but we don't... do the dry clean like we do the carpets over here. Er, what we'll do is spray the carpets... erm... quarterly. Erm... one of the problems that we've been facing in the past, certainly, in G P House is the amount of stuff that's on the floor... and therefore we haven't actually been able to tackle these things... very effectively. Erm... but one of the things that I am doing is over the next quarter... with, various people... begin to review the cleaning schedules of what they actually do, whether we... clean them on a... on a more frequent basis... rather than just responding that particular area.
[Roger:] Get in the dust busters couldn't you for this one!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] There's actually another complaint this morning I've had on... the first floor of G P House. It's only the second offence according to the last What's wrong with this first floor? I mean when they gonna ... [LAUGHTER] It's my wing as well! Erm
[speaker001:] Militants in there!
[Roger:] so I'll be coming to see you.
[speaker001:] Okay. Okay, fine.
[Roger:] Okay. If we move on to the main agenda. For the sake of this.
[speaker001:] Oh!
[Roger:] Erm, as I mentioned with the... group visitors... we've started up a branch action group fo specifically focused on the sort of branch issues. Aren't we just leaving that till last? This is basically to ensure that the, the branches are... complying er to legislations. Er, we're looking at, to whether... the branch and the manager, sort of be... take a more active role including the... the branch sector. Because at the moment there's no one looking at... health and safety on day to day basis and... in any of the branches. There's just point if anyone, someone from head office goes in. Mm. And what this actually came out on was this overall health and safety assessment that we've been doing for G P... erm, we've actually just filed that... overall group focused on the... the branches as a potential issue... and I know it's been very su su successful on a number of times. What we try do and is actually sort of focus in on the branches so that so, to try and get try and get all the strains together.
[speaker001:] [whispering] What are the issues are we dealing with []?
[Roger:] And we've had one meeting be, between, just really detailed some of the, some of the issues that we find... and focus on them a bit more. Mm.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Roger:] Erm mm, the other thing I was gonna mention which is, which we've sort of really gone through is the air conditioning and that we're actually sort o, we are doing... the monitoring of the environment and all, and have had Wi Wintams in... erm doing special exercises for us. Er, I think we should look for... through in the terms of the bulletin. The only thing for me is really just to bring you up-to-date in terms of the V D U project and where we are with that. Erm... so, if you remember this is the reassessment of work stations. Erm, [clears throat] the particular one I'm focusing on here is sort of the, the vision screening part of it cos the assessment of work stations is gonna be a longer term thing, we're going back to pre... where they've actually sort of ticked the various boxes on the sheets... and said this is like that and so we are collating that information currently. But, in terms of the... the actual vision screening itself... erm, we've iden, those people who've been identified as V D U, V D U users'... we've had about five hundred and fifty replies to that, from the V D U, V D U, users' . Erm, of that five hundred and fifty approximately four hundred have requested eye tests... or vision screen tests, sorry! Erm, we've, we've had about approximately seventy tests take so, taken... place so far. I don't know an anybody's in this group's... partaking in this? But it's basically down on the... down on the first floor, we've set aside a... a room which... erm... the people from the Occupational Health Centre... here in Harlow, come up... and do vision screening for us on a regular basis they come... when do they come? Once a week or Erm, it's once a week, but I think they're coming in... the they're here twice this week... er, and I think, it's as and when they can, so if it's more than once a week then they will be here. Yep. Erm, [clears throat]... right! So, of the er, er yeah, of the people who were identified as being users' , V D U users' we've had about eight percent of the replies have actually been returned, so we are chasing some. Mm. Some outstanding ones. Yo, for your own information, as th, say health and safety group, in terms of people who ha, who undertake vision screening and then get referred on from a, for a full... full eye tests... it's usually around Mm. between sort of two and four percent tend to get referred on. Erm, and we have had [clears throat], I think about four or five people who are currently being referred on Mhm. er, in terms of eye tests. And what happens to them, again, through the Occupational Health Centre,th they arra arrange for an optician to give them a full, full eye test... and then we get a report back on that situation. I've, certainly had no a, [clears throat] excuse me, no adverse comments back in terms... the vision screening etcetera, itself as er, people have sort of responded to it... seems to have had a... so something which will be quite good... sort of go going along in the right spirit. Have you any feedback anyone... at all? Have you ? No, not yet. Mm.... a report from... vision screening. Okay. Though it not be... for a safety to anybody else in terms of operations, I think.... I had erm... those, well it's actually been reported in the accident book, erm... a girl tripped, and Ted, Mick, John, and... Roger Ah yes! Yes! are aware of this. Erm, the wires have clipped up now. She fell and hit her head, or something. Erm, you say that they're going to tidied in July,thi this year Erm, yes. when the moves take place?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Not all of them, no!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[Roger:] depends when it happens, I mean... we we're still waiting to find out where some of the changes, erm... in terms of layouts and the like are gonna be done. Erm, but following on from that, wherever we... change layouts now we try and be very specific about... organizing the cable management up front and, so that they don't present any hassles. Erm, in the Customer Services area... once we've seen what changes Customer Service wish to make... during this year that they... myself and Roger and gonna find that out, hopefully, tomorrow, erm, then we'll... be more specific about the areas that we have to address on th, the first and second floor. We could, that's... one of our biggest areas
[Suzanne:] [cough]
[Roger:] anyway... erm... and if P D... er, remains a problem, or isn't gonna be addressed as far as the changes I've been told since, I was told yesterday then that they wouldn't be... it's in which case then we'll address Mm. that... erm before... the other moves take place. I, cos I know our people, and Ted have... are reluctant, they think it's a danger to... sit there, the wires are coming down already! Erm Th, this is the cable wires is it? Mm. Er Oh! Yes it is. Erm, the cables? I, I can't comment specifically to that. Er, we'll have to take that as it goes. Se I send somebody up there and they cou, you know, put them up as best they could. Erm... cabling is a problem... on most of the first floor Mm. because it's... the one area of G P House where there is a co... wide scale movements take place. Mm. But there is. But you said, when we do a move, we do try to, you know, where we can Mm. by... and tidy the cabling as well. And there was a memo to John from yourself, tenth of Jan, that my manager has passed to me, it said you'd given two options that you could go in on Saturday and... erm That's alright, I mean also that tha, that's, that's the activity that we're trying to sort of resume... erm
[speaker001:] That's the main
[Roger:] erm
[speaker001:] thing.
[Roger:] but... that comes after... any moves that I'm making... because... clearly, they need somebody that can be So do you know... what the price is going be? sort of, to put it, I'm gonna be is that as from tomorrow we will have identified... what erm... desking and so on will be moved during the reorganization... erm, and obviously... any of the desking that isn't gonna be moved until the organization, we'll be tidying up the cables. The others, and that maybe just a question of tying them up and Mhm. making sure they're safe, even though they'll still be, sort of, visually... erm... they'll be seen, erm they'll be actually tidied on the desk. But... er, the others, anything that isn't gonna be changed where the cabling is untidy, is dangerous, will have to picked up before that. Right! And that's the sort of thing that we will be identifying as from tomorrow. Tomorrow. Then we'll be putting it back there, on exactly how and when... action ca can Oh, okay. be addressed, hopefully.
[Steve:] Yeah. It is, it is a problem, it's not necessarily
[Roger:] [cough]
[Steve:] something that can be addressed wi with a few cable ties, cos sometimes tying the cables together make a more of a... danger than
[Roger:] Yeah.
[Steve:] leaving them loose. Because, you know... like if people can get a foot caught round them, if they're individual they... they come out
[Roger:] Mm.
[Steve:] and sort of those, will get, people trip over.
[Roger:] Mm. Okay. Well clearly, we need to... you know, the long term moves which we you're obviously taking of in terms of the long running programmes is fine. But, I think once you've decided to schedule it there's areas we still look at, and the managers are saying... this looks dangerous, then we have to.
[Steve:] Yes, in hand, yes it seems
[Roger:] Mm, yes I think we've done that.
[Steve:] specific areas
[Roger:] That's actually been identified and that's, that's the route we're taking on. Right!
[speaker001:] What else?
[Roger:] Aha. I see. now, is it?
[speaker001:] Erm, yes.
[Roger:] Any other safety?... We'll move onto the accident books, any things, or any issues that anybody's seen from the reports... action?
[Peter:] Erm, something came up yesterday... i in the catering unit... found out that erm... a first-aider in area, area hadn't actually been reporting all minor accidents, erm, and I think she felt perhaps they were a bit too minor to report. Erm, I'm wondering maybe due to the small amount of incidents actually in accident book, whether this is... perhaps a general trend going on throughout? I did speak to Paula yesterday, and she said she was gonna speak to you Suzanne
[Suzanne:] Mm.
[Peter:] about bringing it up in the next erm... meeting.
[Suzanne:] I was gonna say the same to you.
[Peter:] Yeah. But erm
[Suzanne:] Generally, I I... enter in the accident book if I give any treatment. Erm... had she be giving treatment?
[Peter:] Yeah.
[Suzanne:] Should do, I think.
[Peter:] I think she felt wi, you know, some of them are sort of like, a bit unimportant. She's now erm, aware of the situation.
[Roger:] Mm.
[Peter:] But erm... I was just concerned... you know, that
[Roger:] Mm.
[Peter:] perhaps it it might be going on
[Roger:] Mm. Right, well I think
[Peter:] elsewhere.
[Roger:] it's only... if you can reinforce it
[Suzanne:] You know, there's that and then you can also
[Roger:] within the... first-aiders and the, and obviously to try and... try and drive it to them on that... issue. Well I did wanna follow this up with some other items
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Roger:] of a person and need to write how important it was, the little ones in the accident book, but looking in the erm... erm... the handbook for the company it says that an accident form should be filled in... and Mm. handed to the Office Services Manager, so, that's not the procedure we follow at the moment is it? No. Because I mean, I haven't seen an accident
[speaker001:] No.
[Roger:] form.
[Peter:] No.
[Roger:] So it's, what is the procedure? Is there a written procedure that says... if you deal with it then put it in the accident book? Say, the first-aider's off sick
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Roger:] who's responsibility is it then? Yeah, okay. Well the procedure is anything, that's if there's an accident which... does require treatment from the first-aiders, I mean then... I think we should send it off don't you? So that means that [clears throat] what we've had forms being filled in? Yeah. Mm. I mean, in terms of the new issue of the handbook which is coming out in due course... [clears throat], that's clarified Oh right! and... I think it was one of things which never really took off in terms of the accident Mm. book. Well What I was just looking for a reference for it, you know. in terms of what should be reported and what shouldn't be? Yeah. Cos one of the things that I said, you know, just... when I was looking through the last... five or six months is that... it did seem... er, to be inconsistent in terms of certain areas like... the first floor, there's an awful lot of reporting going on... but, there was very little from the other, from the other areas. Erm... I... I, I think the same is the case was that, you know Mm.
[speaker001:] Is there one book per floor?
[Roger:] Is that how it was? Is it one Okay. book per floor, is that how it works or
[Suzanne:] Just one book pe per first-aid room I think. So we've just got one book in the whole building.
[Roger:] Is that right? As far I know, yeah.
[Peter:] Yeah that's right.
[speaker001:] That's a problem. Maybe they can't find the book.
[Roger:] Yeah. Well that's probably a good point actually really once you've only got a
[Katie:] And course, we have more accidents in the [LAUGHTER] kitchen []!
[Roger:] Right! No, no, I wasn't
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] I wasn't trying to!
[Katie:] [LAUGHTER] Yes, but []!
[Peter:] Yes, there are!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Oh well, you might as well say that!
[Katie:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Yep?
[Peter:] I don't mind.
[Katie:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Okay, well let's perhaps look into that see whether.. there's a, a more appropriate way. Cos I know... the principle used to be that is er, it was in the first aid room... cos that's where all the first aid treatments
[Katie:] When you
[Roger:] are based.
[Katie:] But then if there's no form to remind somebody they'll fill it in the accident
[Peter:] Yeah.
[Katie:] book, then it's gonna get forgo, forgotten from one day to the next.
[Peter:] I think that's what happened with this particular person as well.
[Roger:] Because she's not been going to the first aid room.
[Peter:] She's not been going
[Katie:] Yeah.
[Peter:] there. So, she's writing them down, and then forgotten about them.
[Roger:] Yeah. Okay, fine! Well then look at that to see if there's a... more appropriate way of doing it.
[Suzanne:] Shall I speak to Paula about that then?
[Roger:] Yeah. Paula, and perhaps we'll bring it up in a first aid. [clears throat] Get that easily. Well that was another thing, one of the new first-aiders we've got, erm... didn't know where the accident book was and I thought was quite an important thing that would probably have been brought up
[Suzanne:] Yes.
[Roger:] at, at the initial training. So
[Suzanne:] Who's that?
[Roger:] Debbie....
[Suzanne:] Ah yes! Okay.
[Peter:] You know what I mean, that is down to the individual really is that er... that they should actually find out... and i, that needs to be highlighted to all
[Roger:] Mm.
[Peter:] of them.
[Roger:] Well if there's only one for each building then
[Suzanne:] Well perhaps when each new first-aider... qualifies they get like an induction pack or something.
[Roger:] Get a tour or Mm. [LAUGHTER] something []!
[Suzanne:] Yeah.
[Roger:] Mm mm.
[Peter:] Are you intending approaching health and safety in... clients in the... Employee Handbook?
[Roger:] Er, yeah, and we're looking.
[Peter:] Right.
[Steve:] Is it gonna very released t to everyone?
[Roger:] Aha. In due course.
[Steve:] Mm.
[Roger:] Mm. The section on health and safety could be... could be quite large especially in the light of further installation. Yeah, we've actually... er, way we've designed is that erm, it's actually a sort of... [clears throat], it's inserted in the ham handbook itself as actually a, sort of separate removal section so they can
[speaker001:] Aha.
[Roger:] use it sort of separately.... Okay. Well, in terms of the
[speaker001:] Literally... I think the only I said is the thing we get from the branches.
[Roger:] Mm. Well I think that
[speaker001:] [clears throat]
[Roger:] well needs a... I think one of the things we discussed in the branch action group meeting is actually, weren't quite sure what the... cos [LAUGHTER] we'd been sending out [] for quite less than ten of the branches because... to... do something to them which was... mm... apparently lots of them in but erm... well they keep disappearing so that the... what we've been talking about is to try and get some points... erm... health and safety station... within the branch, which actually just has all this stuff for it. At least everybody knows where to go and... it's all there an... but obviously that has some difficulty in terms of where to locate it and where to. That's something to look at.... Okay. In terms of actual accidents themselves, anybody... raising things or anything? I did erm, mention, I think on one of them which was the erm... Tim, this is the upstairs, I did actually mention that when I saw it to... to Roger. He was very heroic, but erm... you probably did address Yes. that one. Yeah. Okay. If there's nothing, apart from that... we can move onto... first aid. Suzanne anything?
[Suzanne:] Not really, no
[Roger:] No.
[Suzanne:] this time.
[Roger:] Any other issues in terms of first aid, Mark? about first aid improving the Right. Are we... i in terms of the first, first-aider availability does that tend to work? Okay, in terms of people are aware that they can their first ai, where they can get first aid and... don't tend to have any reports these days.
[Suzanne:] Well I think the erm... you said there was like a plan on each notice board with first-aiders and fire wardens on each floor
[Roger:] Mm.
[Suzanne:] but they look a bit out of date at the moment.
[Roger:] Mm. They're constantly
[Suzanne:] Mm.
[Roger:] But certainly when we first went into first aid and we used to get regular calls in personnel all about, oh where's the first aid? But since it happened, in these days
[Suzanne:] No.
[Roger:] people seem to finding... the sort of first-aider. I think we've got quite an extensive coverage now. Okay. Right, if we move onto fire. Who's in charge of fire? Jonathan!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] What, you want one? [sneeze] I've got nothing other,... I don't know whether anybody's aware of what went on last Wednesday and probably that, I mean there could have been... there was a, sort of a, a cable that, a mains cable that heated up and started smoking... and er, we had to deal with that. But erm, fortunately it didn't heat up, but we're looking at... erm, it didn't catch fire, but we're looking at er er, some safety features that we may actually have to install in the plant room... to erm... to actually identify these... these problems er, somewhat earlier. It was just happened to be spotted by Richard, fortunately, whilst he was... erm, between jobs and actually being up a... steps, walked in a saw the smoke coming out of one of the er, main switch... areas. At that stage he didn't seem to have any effect on anything in terms of erm, alerting... anybody, so erm... we need to er, we need to deal with that with more action than we ha have at the moment.
[Roger:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Actually, I I think you're all aware of, that we caused some number of issues on that Wednesday afternoon... and for that half of our systems.
[Norman:] I suppose it erm... did widen so, the... the wider view on that... is at... that it is important that we carry out the possible appliance testing on a regular basis. This, this could have led, led to a very nasty electrical fire! Erm... and, to that extent, I'll reiterate, that we are in fact... working our way through... all of the
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Norman:] the electrical equipment in the building... in terms of appliance testing and the like.
[speaker001:] We're also, Mark, reviewing our preventative, our maintenance systems... erm, and we may [clears throat], excuse me! We may well... be extending the number of er... shut downs that we over the weekend so that we can carry out more extensive... maintenance on the electrical systems... around the organization. Certainly bits that look pretty interesting... I should imagine... and a report on the end of the day with a number of er... proposals... and actions for er... hopefully, preventing this happening again. [cough]
[Roger:] Mm. I think it just erm... also demonstrates our dependence on the... bigger systems in that regard. Or we tend to
[speaker001:] Yes it does!
[Roger:] [LAUGHTER] grind to a halt []! [clears throat]
[Norman:] But not, but not as much as on the electrical systems.
[Roger:] Well no! Mm.
[speaker001:] I would think Mark knows that!
[Roger:] Yeah, I was... er... [clears throat] being naive and thinking of them, in the same capacity
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] actually Norman, though I'm not... terribly... precise in my technical... technical. Okay. Good! Any other
[Dianne:] On that point I've got
[Roger:] Yes.
[Dianne:] quite a few, dare I start with
[Roger:] Mhm.
[Dianne:] them? Erm
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Dianne:] hiding them from! Erm... apparently there was a training course held on the twenty eighth of Jan... erm... the procedures were actually out of date at that time, and Mike on security? Is he the head the... fire
[Roger:] The deputy.
[speaker001:] Mike is, yeah.
[Dianne:] the deputy, he's actually going to
[Roger:] He's
[Dianne:] issue erm... the floor plans... erm... and procedures to everyone which... they still haven't received. Erm
[speaker001:] Will that be, will that... please?
[Dianne:] I don't really know who yo... to direct to... cos... do the fire marshals not meet regularly?
[speaker001:] Only to try and
[Roger:] Probably we should organize it.
[Dianne:] I think they, no. Yeah. Erm... another thing on the erm... fire warden training it was stated the company did not want... erm, fire wardens to use the equipment... around the building, whereas the notices say... actually states, erm, attack fire if possible with appliances provided without taking personal risk. Erm, but the training contradicted that and said that they... they showed them how they should be used, but, but they... shouldn't tackle a fire... and they
[Roger:] Mhm.
[Dianne:] wanted to know which
[Roger:] Mm.
[Dianne:] they should be doing.
[Roger:] Mm. Ya. Mhm. Yeah. Like she says... I think the position is exes effectively what we're trying to reinforce is that we don't want any heros
[Dianne:] Mm.
[Roger:] in a sense of leaping into the flames and trying to battle with it. Erm, but obviously if somebody can take some assertive action... that stops the fire
[Dianne:] Yeah.
[Roger:] down and that's a difficult... that's a judgement that have to make. And clearly, in terms of the fires as a particular... the rationale for them being there is to
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Roger:] can get out of the building, which is why
[Dianne:] Mm.
[Roger:] the position of our doors... are attached to the system is the... fire exit's actually blocked, by fire... and that's their only exit at least you got some opportunity to.... You was quite right. You said I can do with some clarification which we... seek to do.
[Dianne:] Erm
[Steve:] So, are the fire appliances only supposed to be used by the
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Steve:] by the wardens then?
[Dianne:] Mm.
[Steve:] Is that not sort of I mean, I wasn't aware that anybody wasn't... supposed to pick up a fire appliance or not.
[speaker001:] Again, it's a similar sort of issue which is... it's it is difficult to put across that... if you notice you haven't got a fire warden there and that's your only
[Steve:] Right.
[speaker001:] exit, then you use the fire [clears throat] fire, fire extinguisher.
[Roger:] Though obviously one of the things that you worry about with fire extinguishers are you using the right one... with the correct
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Roger:] sort of fire? Erm, you can cause as much, or more damage to yourself or equipment in ter, by using the wrong one. Service is done...
[Steve:] Right, I mean the point I was making, I don't think there's anywhere
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Steve:] where you have said positively don't use a fire extinguisher
[speaker001:] No it's
[Steve:] in the event of bomb.
[speaker001:] Mm. I I think it would be crazy to actually say that positively. I mean people... it is question of how you say you well enough that
[Steve:] Aha.
[speaker001:] people do understand that there ar,... if there's a problem and you can do something about it without being a hero, as Mark said... then something should be done. Erm... but how you legislate for common sense and so on
[Dianne:] Mm.
[speaker001:] I know that looking for a Purple Heart, or... V C, erm are... but I do believe it needs to be... it needs to be clarified.
[Roger:] Mm. Okay, well I will se, I'll I'll seek to clarify tha to be able to join that to er sort of form of words.
[Dianne:] Erm, something that was actually also raised before and after working hours, erm, there was a fire... evacuation, I think, in October... about to quarter nine
[Roger:] Mm.
[Dianne:] erm
[speaker001:] In G P House?
[Dianne:] Yep. which was, complete chaos apparently! All rushing around
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Dianne:] erm
[Norman:] That's happened.
[Dianne:] what are the procedures then if fire wardens aren't there? I mean, check it, as in... for checking buildings and... erm
[Norman:] I didn't think it was chaos! I thought it was quite well organized considering. Apart from all the people didn't come out.
[Dianne:] Half the, yes
[speaker001:] Did they not?
[Dianne:] yes, that was the main thing!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] The ones that I saw were.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Did the alarms
[Dianne:] [LAUGHTER] []!
[speaker001:] Did the alarms actually keep ringing?
[Roger:] Actually organized it.
[Dianne:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So they weren't switched off half way through? Yeah? They kept going?
[Norman:] Yes, they did, definitely.
[Dianne:] For some time.
[Roger:] Right! Yeah. It's a good point there! Develop a procedure for out of hours then.
[Dianne:] And something... that was suggested by... fire wardens, that they could do a five or ten minute erm... presentation and could go round each floor... to make people aware that they are the... fire wardens, why we have to evacuate and the importance... erm
[speaker001:] Mm. It's crafty
[Dianne:] and just issue memos
[Roger:] Mm.
[Dianne:] which you can. They've erm volunteers to see if you can show this committee the presentation for the.
[Roger:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Is it actually? Is that the sort of the general feeling towards
[Dianne:] Erm, Bevan
[speaker001:] fire?
[Dianne:] and Mark, he said it was suggested, and it was a general feeling that that would be more
[Roger:] I haven't said that!
[Dianne:] useful than issuing memos.
[Roger:] Oh yes! That's er, true.
[speaker001:] Gold star!
[Dianne:] That's it. Thank you.
[Roger:] Actually, that out of hours issue probably pertains to first aid treatment as well doesn't it?
[Dianne:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Roger:] Yeah. Perhaps we ought to make people aware that, just coming along security isn't. Mm. Yes. Mm. Erm Mm.
[Norman:] That's a good point! I could... if I just pick up one other point about... you know, like the... the non-standard... times, or the non-standard occasions... when we do fire evacuations currently... er, I don't know where we think the fire is but we all troop out via our normal... fire exits and to our normal assembly ports... erm, it maybe... men, maybe an idea to... do... some fire evacuations where we... stayed where the fire actually was and people have got to take... other... other routes to evacuate the building.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Mm. Yeah, I think we can probably try blocking exit next and see what happens! [LAUGHTER] And not on the as well! Well I'm a... da no, sorry! I did get... and proved the place I've been going that actually more accidents due to blocking... and you sort of back up the stairs with you
[Roger:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] yeah and create... accidents but erm... well perhaps we could do it in a sort of... floor by floor actually this
[Roger:] Yes.
[speaker001:] just your rear exits are blocked off... find more routes you know you can take, of course, without much potential danger.
[Roger:] Okay. So, we'll do some thinking about that then. We Wha also, Mark, need to able to bring out most of the computer people as well. Erm, and I know we tend to make allowances for the operations It's in their contract that is, if they get out They go, they gotta hold especially and [LAUGHTER] try and get through []!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Like the Captain of the ship. But I do believe... that we ought to be doing more in terms of making sure they do come out... erm... you know i, we know it's only a... a training exercise... even though you leave one or two in there, but I think we ought Mm. to be drawing most of those people out. Mm. Can we do a separate And we we could do a separate exercise then couldn't we? We could, but I dunno how realistic it would be, I mean if there was, oh obviously it'll more realistic than doing nothing. Mm. But er... we need to be dragging those out at the same time as we're dragging everybody else out. If it were real, it would happen. And I just feel, you know, that er So I think it's part of the... the early morning set up and we were actually gonna talk to Steve weren't we, about That's right. About what they actually bother Yeah. coming out for? Yeah. And er
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think you ought to take that up with Steve, cos I don't see why you should getting, taking people
[Roger:] No.
[speaker001:] out on the machines
[Roger:] Oh no! I mean a lot
[speaker001:] well afterwards
[Roger:] of people there's nothing apparent with them, apparent, then the machine would be er, would be
[speaker001:] That's right.
[Roger:] And the machine can wait another ten, about ten minutes Well, and that's a serious
[speaker001:] Course not.
[Roger:] and I think we've gotta reas, yeah... lus, leave it to Steve.
[speaker001:] Mm. Okay. You gonna pick that up with Steve?
[Roger:] Yeah, I'll do that.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Roger:] Is the fire wardens sort of aware... you know, which way they're meant to go if their, their exits they would normally are used are blocked? I mean, shouldn't we sort of going... well that area you
[Dianne:] That
[Roger:] start off with?
[Dianne:] I think that was th, one of the things raised, the procedures and floor plans
[Roger:] Mhm.
[Dianne:] and the exits
[Roger:] Mm.
[Dianne:] and weren't actually er, correct, and some
[Roger:] Mm mm.
[Dianne:] weren't now being used so, I think once that's out of the way.
[Roger:] So, sorry, say it again! They will?
[Dianne:] The floor plans that they were actually shown... on their training course were out of date for the procedures, so that's what my... whatever, erm security
[speaker001:] We don't actually know but we are
[Dianne:] [LAUGHTER] but we said []
[Roger:] Oh right.
[speaker001:] we're recor, addressing that once.
[Dianne:] Yeah.
[Roger:] That's a point... to what we are addressing and what we aren't.
[speaker001:] That's a very good point!
[Roger:] With exactly the same one, we
[Dianne:] Mm.
[Roger:] our floor plan is, because of the number of moves and so on we've gotta have Oh, this is where desk plan I'll wor, I'll work out the
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Roger:] with the exit?
[speaker001:] Yeah. And all the exits are clearing off? All the exits at the moment.
[Roger:] Yes they are.
[speaker001:] Erm
[Roger:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] nothing's changed there. And... we... whenever we do layouts now as well we insure that... all fire exits are kept to... a minimum of one and half metres wide, er, in terms of main access ways. And, we're becoming more and more stringent on where people... [clears throat] pile... boxes and other... various items of rubbish. Erm... but... we need to get some plans up... together. I don't really [LAUGHTER] want to have []... to do too many... commit myself till the ammunition's here, but we are in fact, actually er, addressing this... very specific issue.
[Roger:] Fe feel vulnerable for another, a number of reasons Mark in terms of updated floor plans Mm. and... yes, we're doing something Mm. to
[Norman:] Cos I was asking, for a number of reasons I was asking for floor plans for our, you see. Didn't seem to be there.
[speaker001:] I'll ask for information Norman.
[Norman:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I'm having trouble with my zip today! [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Anyway... thought that'd be the general issue!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] [clears throat]
[speaker001:] Yep.
[Roger:] Can we go onto computer design then? [LAUGHTER] Oh []! While you've got them out!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Norman:] No! It was just someone got one
[Roger:] We got the same taste in! Cheeky sod! Well, you see! You can get him some nice We well if we don't get the package... if Yeah. we get one Mark we're going to get one for the right reasons indeed. There's a CAD system in your end isn't there? Yes there is. Yeah, it's a very good one. [LAUGHTER] We use it all the time. Well Yeah. We've already beaten them. Yeah, we have looked at, but erm Very good part of the investigation. distributing one But they won't share, you know what they're like in my team it's, it's [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Oh you don't mean it!
[Roger:] Told him you can use our plotter any Erm time you like. It's it's hold on a minute. Gee whizz!
[Dianne:] One other thing is just to chase up procedures we're going to put on the... passes for attendants and visitors... and that still hasn't been done. And I've spoken to Paula since the last meeting and... and chase it but... it still hasn't been
[Roger:] Right. Okay. We, we put together some sort of words on anyway, we've er
[speaker001:] Yeah. But, not very far.
[Roger:] Almost
[speaker001:] Yeah. You gave us five pages to get in one!
[Roger:] I gave you five pages, yeah but
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] It is now a hell of a lot less!
[Roger:] I hope we can do other things.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] That's right. Did a good a trade in restaurant. Okay. Good!
[speaker001:] [cough] May I... make a, a separate point Yeah. that does link in with that... point that Dianne made? Erm... me, myself and Steve are currently working on... er, health and safety for contractors coming on site... purpose to work etcetera... and... one of reasons why... well he... than ever before on this,visi visitor's information when they're... on site on the back of cars... it would, it would have been a nice thing to do would have been to have joined the whole lot together. Erm... and, anyway, on the... health and safety contractors on site thing... Stuart has actually read the documentation... and he's quite happy with it, and we're waiting for you and Martin to feed back as well on it.
[Roger:] Right. Mm!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well I was getting you back for one!
[Roger:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah []!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Why not!
[speaker001:] Once we've done that perhaps we can... sit... this particular lay info information on the back of the card so we're covering
[Roger:] Excellent!
[speaker001:] all visitors.
[Roger:] Mm. Yep. Okay. Right. Anything on fire from anybody else? Okay. Let's move on to any other business. I've just got something well I'll take over. Mm. Right, a little
[Dianne:] Erm
[Roger:] note here.
[Dianne:] I don't know if I was the only one that didn't receive the check list? I mean, has, has anyone else got these wo, it's off the last bulletin. Erm... the check list that I think Des... completes... is gonna go to Adees and
[Roger:] Oh right.
[Dianne:] there's the Health and Safety Committee. Has anyone else... received it?
[Roger:] No I haven't.
[speaker001:] No.