[speaker001:] corner.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Selwyn to your end.
[Selwyn:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Oh it did erm did wha did
[Selwyn:] What would it be?
[speaker001:] Joyce, did Joyce do a few? She gave a few.
[Selwyn:] No, I took them off of her, she gave them to me
[speaker001:] Oh right.
[Selwyn:] and I went down as far as er
[speaker001:] Was it the corner? Where you can see I think you know.
[Selwyn:] er
[speaker001:] As far as the eye can see I mean. Yeah, I see what you mean, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Selwyn:] I went down as far as Frank 's
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Selwyn:] on the corner.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Have you had problems in the area recently?
[Jan:] don't know.
[Paul:] Burglaries?
[speaker001:] Well
[Jan:] the only thing we
[Lyn:] Somebody.
[Jan:] Oh yeah.
[Paul:] buy three ten.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] I mean I go, I go to some meetings, yeah and I asked who's been burgled and all the hands shoot up.
[Lyn:] Really?
[Paul:] Oh yeah.
[Lyn:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Not in this area, in Nottingham
[Lyn:] Yeah. [door slam]
[speaker007:] One or two burglaries during the day time.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[Lyn:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] People have been in the house and they nipped in while they've been
[Selwyn:] Yes. Yeah.
[speaker007:] Mrs
[Selwyn:] Yes. That's only about two month ago isn't it?
[speaker007:] Two month ago. Mm. They've just gone round. They've been on loo while they've been and done them.
[speaker001:] anyone's gonna They don't want the same crime.
[Paul:] Well I don't know really what you mean by
[speaker001:] Well I mean there's nothing much anyway. It, it into Southwell.
[Paul:] Yeah, it's very low.
[speaker001:] Yeah erm
[Paul:] Er but having said that, was
[speaker001:] Oh absolutely yeah yeah.
[speaker007:] seventeen cars broken into.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker007:] On Saturday night
[Paul:] There can be a lot of crime occur without you knowing.
[speaker001:] Yeah that's right
[Paul:] Someone tells me the other day that I, I've you know y
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Paul:] s three public houses there in a, a row, must be fairly unique that. Er it's not to live there it's just
[speaker002:] No.
[Paul:] coincidence. [LAUGHTER] But he was telling me that there's twenty one cars been stolen from the car park this year.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] And I didn't know wh anything. Because
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] the people come into the village
[Jan:] Mm.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] er for the entertainment, and their car gets stolen. Cos they don't say anyone in the village car been stolen
[speaker002:] No.
[Paul:] they go home and tell their neighbours.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Consequently we don't hear about it. So you, you may have crimes against cars in
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Paul:] particular
[Lyn:] Yeah
[Paul:] where people coming
[Lyn:] on the main road
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Lyn:] get broken in to.
[speaker007:] Mm. [door slam]
[Paul:] Do you want me to make a start now or do you want me to
[Lyn:] Yeah,
[Paul:] Right. I'll give these out first of all. Just get rid of them and I wo won't have to worry about them any more. Three four five.... Take one, pass them round. Bit like being at college isn't it?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] pass one of these round each and if, there's plenty here so if you've got any friends, neighbours that can't be here tonight for any reason then feel free to take one afterwards and, well it wouldn't bother me if I had none to take back....
[speaker001:] Yeah. [someone walking, door opens and shuts]
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Selwyn:] Thank you.
[Jan:] Oh right.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Right.
[Jan:] Pass them along.
[Paul:] If I can just introduce myself. Er I think you've all guessed that I must be the policeman. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] [LAUGHTER] Considering I'm dressed in a black suit [].
[Selwyn:] I were looking at your feet but
[Paul:] Well they're not that
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] they're not that big, they're only size eight, they're not really a sort of stereotype policeman. My name's Paul I'm a sergeant with the Community Affairs Department er I'm, I was based at until last week but now I'm based at temporarily. Erm my history in the police is that I've got eighteen years' police servicing, started at Newark which isn't too far away from here, did about four years there and I was a village policeman at Alderton for about a year of that time. And er it achieved my first ambition in life to appear on television I, I don't know wheth can you remember the Rampton enquiry
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Paul:] that was on?
[speaker002:] Yeah. Mm.
[Paul:] Well that all started of at Alderton hospital when I, I was seen to run across this field and rescue
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] patient that had slashed their wrists.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] When it was on television it really looked, it really looked good but er the reality of it was it was pretty bad really but er the editor was very kind to me and made me look quite a hero but. In fact he had me arriving at the scene in a police car with two tones, at, at, at that time we didn't have police cars with two tones, just siren, so they obviously put some sound on it. I actually arrived in a neighbour's Mini car.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] [cough]
[Paul:] see on television. I moved from er Alderton and went to Bingham I suppose you all remember the Bingham area again? I was there for about a couple of years and then I moved in into Nottingham on traff on the Traffic Department, you know the people that wear the white hats and, and do people for speeding. Er but we dealt with quite a few serious accidents in the time I was there. That was the main we had. Also had a spell on the motorway for about er I think it was just over a year.
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] Er on the M one. We don't cover a great deal of the M one but it's something like fourteen miles but that was about the time of the miners' strike as well so I was on traffic when that was on and we had these intercept boys who were working something like thirteen hour shifts for about a year. absolutely ridiculous it was. And then from there I moved on to C I D at in Nottingham. Did a year and a half there and then er promoted me and moved me back to Newark. Er where I did about three years and then moved to Southwell. So there's a good year and a half at Southwell so I know the area, in fact I was over at Southwell when Simon was a police officer, covering the area. I don't know whether you know Simon?
[Dave:] Yes.
[Paul:] I think he's been replaced now, well not replaced
[Dave:] a long time ago. [sniff]
[Paul:] He's gone, yeah. Er I think he still covers the area though doesn't he?
[Dave:] Now and again.
[Paul:] Yeah, yeah but there's, you've got a new village police officer haven't you? Or have you?
[Dave:] Yes er ex
[Selwyn:] Yeah.
[Dave:] army yeah.
[Paul:] Is he? Oh.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Dave:] Oh yes.
[Paul:] I don't think. What's your name?
[Dave:] Er
[Jan:] Colin.
[speaker001:] Colin
[Dave:] that's it?
[Paul:] Ah, I don't, I don't know him I've not met him then.
[Dave:] No he's not long out of the army.
[Paul:] No.
[Dave:] He's in the army.
[Paul:] So you're gonna get some Northern Ireland type policing. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] Yeah oh yes []. Right we'll move on from that.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] So I was in at, at er Southwell when the job came on community affairs, I've been on community affairs for the last four years. What we deal with there is crime prevention. Er school liaison, er we do things like arrange talks to different community groups, put on shows and displays. We also have er a branch that deals with juvenile crime as well. Er although that part of the department seems to be a bit independent of the rest of it. Tt so that's what I do. Er j I just wanted to give you a bit of background so you know who you're talking with. When there's er when there's this sort of number what I like to do is make it very informal, more of a chat really than, than a talk. I mean if the room was full a projector and slide show and everything and then usually everybody falls to sleep
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] half way through anyway so, so we'll have a chat and if there's any sort of er questions, burning questions as er I'm going along, feel free to ask. In fact I'd rather you ask as I'm going through because er very often you think of something and er you wait to the end and you've forgotten what it was you wanted to know until you've got home when then you re all of a sudden you remember what it was. So I want to start about talking about what Neighbourhood Watch is and what it isn't. And see what you feel Neighbourhood Watch should be or shouldn't be. And then talk about er house security. But I, I wanted to try something slightly different tonight as a bit of an experiment, I wanted us to sort of put ourselves in the position of the criminal and we plan a burglary of our house and see what, what we think about. Now if we do that then er if you know how to plan a burglary and we're relying on you not to actually take this [LAUGHTER] in [] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] in to practice. If we plan a burglary between us at least it makes us think about the, the sort of things that we need to look at our houses, to stop that burglary from
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] burglary from happening. So that's what I want to do, is that okay with everybody? That'll satisfy everybody will it? Right. Neighbourhood Watch, erm it's an American idea. I think in America what they did is actually people went out on patrol there. Er I'm not sure whether they went out with guns or anything like that.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] [in background] Or
[Paul:] Well yeah, yeah that's the sort of thing it was
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] more, the emphas the emphasis was on civilians patrolling their own, their own areas. Erm that may be fine in America but we didn't think it was particularly relevant to this country although there's nothing to stop anyone patrolling if they want to but we don't particularly advise it. It came over here in nineteen eighty four, the first Nei sorry, nineteen eighty two. The first Neighbourhood Watch was this place called Mollington in Cheshire. Now I say that was the first Neighbourhood Watch, it was actually the first police recognized Neighbourhood Watch. There's a chap er at our called Bill who claims that he got one one year before that but he can't prove it to us, er apparently he read in the Readers Digest of Neighbourhood Watch schemes in America and set one up himself in his own little area. Now, but he forgot to tell the police so unfortunately for p poor old Bill he never got his name in history. Whereas the er coordinator at Mollington in Cheshire er has now. So that was nineteen eighty two, the first one we had was at the end of nineteen eighty four, which was at. Erm we made a little mistake with that one because it was a, a very big area, a lot of houses, and er the Crime Prevention Department as it was then, promised everyone that we'd visit everyone's house and, and advise them on their security. Which is a nice promise to make but when you've got so many thousand houses to get through it took about six months to set the scheme up. Now just give you an example of the numbers of schemes we've got at the moment, just on my area, my old area from West Bridgford, covering Newark, there's two hundred and twenty Neighbourhood Watch schemes. So if it took six months to start each scheme up w well I think we'd still be on number three or four. So we re we revamped Neighbourhood Watch, and what we did was er is er instead of going to everyone's house we have this meeting at the beginning just to discuss crime prevention and er tell people what Neighbourhood Watch is about. Er Neighbourhood Watch has grown quite fast. Erm it's certainly grown faster than we anticipated it growing and we are not able to er we're not able to carry out what we like to do with Neighbourhood Watch. We'd like to keep Neighbourhood Watch fully informed of all the crimes that happen in the area. We can't do that, we can't even keep ourselves informed too easily as to what's happening. So the emphasis now is more on the people themselves, basically Neighbourhood Watch is your scheme, it's not a police thing, we support it, we pay for the hall tonight, we pay for the signs for the street and we give you all the literature free, but it is your scheme and it's how you want it to be. Some Neighbourhood Watches do things like run cheese and wine parties and trips to the coast and bonfire night, Christmas parties and all that lot. Some don't do anything at all, they're just there in the, in the name alone and if anything does happen they'll into action. But I suppose the real thing about Neighbourhood Watch as I see it is it's there to create a, a neighbourly spirit. Not much more than that, I think most good ne neighbours look for each other anyway, in fact probably that's what happens in your street. You all look after each other. If someone goes away on holiday, you may well give the key to a neighbour, they probably know a relative of yours or somebody like that that if anything does happen they can contact you or your relative to come down and check the house over. Er some neighbours cut each other 's lawn while they're away so the grass doesn't grow too long and make sure that the mail's moved away from the letter box. They're the sort of things that happen?
[speaker002:] Mm. I don't know, I'm not
[Paul:] You're a
[Lyn:] I have methods actually, no.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Lyn:] I mean I'm her relative around here and certainly no one cuts my lawn. [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Don't they? Right.
[Lyn:] No.
[Paul:] Right.
[Lyn:] Erm
[Paul:] N Neighbourhood Watch is, is, is trying to establish that type of relationship in, in the area so that everybody does know each other. Not to the extent where you're living in each other 's pockets, it's just that er you know enough about each other to see if there's anything out of the ordinary happening. And if a strange person is walking up the driveway with intention of breaking in at least somebody may notice it.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[Paul:] Er I, I suppose if we're going back something like forty, fifty years where people tended to live in the same area most of their lives, and their families in the area, people didn't move very far, they were probably born in an area, went to work in the area and died in the area. Er that's completely changed now,p people move great distances when they get employ to, to find employment. Now I'm, I'm from Worksop and my first job was at Newark and my contacts now gone. Erm s so you've now got the situation in modern times where people probably go out to work all day, come home at the end and don't even know who the names of the people living next door to them. And that's happening more and more. And Neighbourhood Watch is really to try that down a little bit. The only problem with it is that very often we, the people that organize the Neighbourhood Watches already live in areas that [LAUGHTER] don't really need one [] that much. You know they're already fairly good neighbours anyway. Er we'd like to introduce Neighbourhood Watch into inner city areas where people don't know each other too well. We try and get them to look after each other. Th the crime problem, as we've already said isn't too, too great here but er nevertheless it's important that we, we er keep our eyes open and try and keep crime out because some of these people that erm are living in the bigger cities that are criminals are now starting to discover that it's easier to come out to places like Farnsfield and commit the crime, because we, we're not experienced at it. But we trust too many people and er could certainly find burglaries have gone up gone up something like five hundred percent in the last two or three years. Er it hasn't happened here too much yet but it could be there in the near future, so we've all got to be really careful about that. Neighbourhood Watches is organized er in the, there's, we have a head coordinator i of each scheme which is er someone that lives in the area. Usually the head coordinator is the person who er takes the [LAUGHTER] initiative [] to organize the scheme. And in, in that case it, I forget your first name?
[Jan:] Jan.
[speaker002:] Jan.
[Jan:] Jan.
[Paul:] Jan. Erm usually it's the person that does that so it, it's probably you. [LAUGHTER]
[Jan:] Yeah.
[Paul:] But er some schemes have annual general meetings and elect people er some are quite content to leave things as they are and the volunteer carries on all the way through with it. That head coordinator is appointed contact for the police. If we needed to talk to your scheme and if we would, it would be fairly serious incident for us to come to you, to tell you about it ask Phil for some help with it. Er it just gives us a focal point for us to go and see. And then what the head coordinator needs is some other people to help. Now have you got, is that
[Jan:] Mm.
[Paul:] organized is it?
[Jan:] To my left
[speaker007:] You don't mind them do you?
[speaker002:] known about them.
[Jan:] discussed it actually.
[Dave:] No she asked me
[Jan:] That's right and
[speaker002:] Yes.
[Jan:] Selwyn. And we have discussed it haven't we Selwyn? Yeah.
[Selwyn:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Now all that, all that is just, just to ease the burden that
[Jan:] Mm.
[Paul:] you may have. In, occasionally we send out er we have like a, a neighbourhood news newspaper for Neighbourhood Watch schemes. And we'll come and we'll leave you a pile of newspapers to distribute. If you don't want them you don't have to but they're free of charge. And if you decide to distribute them then you're going to need to help, so you just give a few to, and a few to you as well, we'll get them distributed that way. Er if it was something serious, like say we'd had a murder or something in the village
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] you'd probably know about it before our police force do, the way villages work.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] But may be that we had a description, want to get the description out to as many people as possible, to see if anybody recognizes the person described, er then we'd come to you there, give you the description of the
[Jan:] Mm.
[Paul:] Go round and ask everybody in the area. Er and you'd get some feedback to us... from the Neighbourhood Watch point of view er and it's not peculiar to Neighbourhood Watches but er from, from your point of view you also have access to the police in that er eventually there should be a liaison built up, not overnight I mean it won't, it won't happen tomorrow morning either, but there'll be a lia liaison between the, the local police officer and yourselves... er and if there's any problems that you may have, you know and you'll be able to communicate back to them. If, if there's an incident happens, doesn't mean you have to wait for the local police officer to tell, to come along and tell him, you've still got police support all round you anywhere. [cough] It's important that if it's an incident to get in contact with us straight away. It's only if there's a sort of niggling problem that would tell the coordinator about and they would pass it to the police officers. Er it's, it's hard to think of an example but something like if, if you thought that this street lighting wasn't adequate and you were concerned that the, it could affect the crime levels in your area. And I'm not saying that will happen but that's the sort of
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] thing you could pass on to the police and they could take it up with the local council. Or you could as a Neighbourhood Watch do that yourself. Makes you into a sort of pressure group. If there's anything you need action on, a cr crime or anything like that, then contact the police direct. There's two ways of doing that, dial them on nine nine nine or ring up the local police control, which for this area is at Newark. Er a lot of people ask me, how are you choose the difference between nine nine nine and the local police station. If it's something you want the police there to deal with quite quickly and if, if they waited an hour or so and the police didn't come then couldn't deal with it. An example would be, if there's er a strange person g gone up the neighbour's drive, you know they're on holiday and you hear a window smash, you need the police there straight away to deal with that. That is a nine nine nine. If you er using a similar example, if, if you were looking after the neighbour's house while they're away on holiday and found that they'd been broken into, then that wouldn't necessarily be a nine nine nine call, unless you thought there was somebody in the house. Because it wouldn't really matter that much if it took an hour for the police officer to come. I mean it's happened, it's gone er and doesn't matter how quickly the police officer gets there to deal with it. Having said that if you did dial nine nine nine we wouldn't be too hard on you.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] In fact we'd rather you ring nine nine nine er but find out it wasn't necessary than you not to ring nine nine nine when it was necessary. So if there's any doubt, use your nine nine nine system. Right any questions on that?
[Dave:] Well that's the best thing, cos I'm on a case a couple of weeks and I rang your police on Friday night
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Dave:] and they came on Tuesday.
[Paul:] What was that?
[Dave:] I'm not going to mention any names and all.
[Paul:] No no
[Dave:] He was round the Friday night
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Dave:] and the Monday, and they eventually turned up on the Tuesday.
[Paul:] Yeah, what was it for?
[Dave:] Well it was just damage to my car. But we couldn't have any couldn't have any had they come on Friday, they may have done. Not too late on Tuesday.
[Paul:] Mm. Mm.
[Dave:] They said they'll contact the was out, and it was forgotten.
[Paul:] Was it?
[Dave:] Well it must have been, to arrive Tuesdays.
[Paul:] Well I'm not, it's not sometimes they have they wait for the local officer to come on duty. If it's something like that, they will do that occasionally. But where they fell down, they should have told you that was what would happen
[Dave:] Right.
[Paul:] erm so that y so that you expected this sort of measure of service and if you were told the, if you were told the circumstances you might have said well that's okay, no problem. I mean you mi then you might have said, well actually I want someone here a bit quicker and then they would have done something else.
[Dave:] Mm.
[Paul:] would have told you. But i it occasionally happens though, er it's not very good though is it?
[Dave:] It's not, no. Let's think,
[speaker002:] No.
[Dave:] you say about Neighbourhood Watch contact
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[Dave:] the police
[speaker002:] yeah.
[Dave:] to observe them. If you're gonna wait three days at a time for the local copper to turn up,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Dave:] what's the point?
[Paul:] That's bit too
[Lyn:] The things is
[Paul:] some of them being throttled round at the time. No. Erm, yeah. You think Newark's bad, you ought to see some of the police stations in Nottingham. Carlton police station, which is my police station, you can wait twenty minutes for the phone to be answered. yeah. Now we, we do know that's a problem, the police service know it's a problem, and the Chief Constable's come up with these er these performance targets, where he's try he's promising to the public that he's going to endeavour to make sure that all police telephone calls are answered within certain time periods.
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] And we've got a very big computerized telephone system, so that if it doesn't answer sit there with a stopwatch timing each phone I presume, it's all automatically done and they get a print out at the end of every month giving the average time of the, the phone the, the, the phone takes to be answered. And then that's circulated to each division, and if Newark in the future isn't coming up anywhere near those standards or, or failing to improve month after month, then he'll want to know why. And one of the things they're going to do is to centralize the switchboard that it'll, you won't actually ring me up at all, you might ring the, the telephone number for Newark but it'll be answered at headquarters and they'll put you through. Cos a lot, a lot of the time is spent er by the switchboard operators just putting calls through to different officers. And you might be waiting to report an incident.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] So what we've got to do is try and filter out that so that the incidents go straight through to the incident rooms, rather than being queued behind everybody who just wants to speak to the caretaker, to talk about the hinges that's just normally.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Is that, that's the problem, the pile up of, of calls.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] But if, if you do ring a police station and they are answered in order, so it's just a matter of waiting, they will be answered
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] but the switchboard has it will take them in order, it's not just a matter of which button shall I press now. That's it. Any more comments at all on the Neighbourhood Watch before I start?
[speaker009:] Yes. Er what's er what's the position about noise? Can we do anything about that?
[Paul:] It
[speaker009:] Er record players er record players
[speaker002:] [cough]
[speaker009:] it's er doesn't actually affect me but I can hear it. thump thump thump.
[Paul:] Is it er a neighbour's house or is
[speaker009:] Yes,
[Paul:] it a pub or
[speaker009:] yes er no it's the neighbour's house across the road.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] And they have parties about once a fortnight and well
[Paul:] Yeah, well
[speaker009:] underaged drinking too.
[Paul:] Yeah, I, I could say well that's not a police issue and then forget about it but that's not really a good response,?
[speaker009:] No.
[Paul:] Er the environmental people at Newark er at Newarkshire and District Council
[speaker009:] Yeah.
[Paul:] should be able to deal with that for you. Erm I, I think the way to deal with any anybody that's making noise you subtle obligation on people to actually mention it to them.
[speaker009:] Mhm.
[Paul:] It may well have been done.
[speaker009:] You see we d we don't know when they're going to have these parties,
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] and you see if we ring s Newark and Sherwood up at the there these bastards going get the answerphone don't you?
[Paul:] You know what there is?
[speaker009:] next morning.
[Paul:] Yes. That's the problem, if it's a one-off party there's not a great deal you can do. Some people do ring the police
[Lyn:] Yeah.
[Paul:] After one-off parties
[speaker002:] [background to following]
[Paul:] What I'm saying if it is a one-off party there's not a lot we can do about that.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Some people do ring the police up and the police, if we've got the time, we'll come along and ask them to switch it down.
[speaker009:] Yeah.
[Paul:] The problem comes if they don't, cos there's not a lot else we can do about that. Generally speaking though most people will switch things down. I mean the street I lived once and er the police came to the party, it did get switched down a little bit, but er th the falling out after that for the next week, who rang the police and you
[speaker009:] Yes.
[Paul:] know it was a real big thing,
[speaker009:] Yes.
[Paul:] but there was no parties after that for quite a long time. Unless people invited the next door neighbours, then it wasn't too bad. But if it's something that's going off fairly regular
[speaker009:] Every Saturday night.
[Paul:] Mm yeah, if it's something regular
[speaker009:] . Every Saturday, yeah.
[Paul:] Then there's a individual
[speaker009:] From four o'clock onwards.
[speaker002:] Pardon?
[speaker009:] From four o'clock onwards
[Paul:] If it's i as
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] an individual or as now as a, a Neighbourhood Watch, although I mean it's not the main function of Neighbourhood Watch to do not noisy parties, but it could do, then make a complaint to Newark and District Council
[speaker002:] To the
[Paul:] to the environmental health people.
[speaker009:] Just we're talking about got two children, a girl, a boy. With the girl about fourteen? Fifteen isn't she?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah
[Paul:] Is it a council house?
[speaker009:] I should think something like that really.
[Paul:] Is it a council house?
[speaker009:] There's only them two
[speaker002:] Yes. Yes.
[Paul:] Well
[speaker009:] I had to go round the other night, Saturday night, and you couldn't get through the door. There were, I, young and girls and
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] and a lot of smoking and drinking and language and
[Paul:] Yeah and while I've seen what's doing it
[speaker009:] I'll just say that's it not
[Paul:] In a in an addition to er the er environmental health people though, if it's a council house there's housing department will deal with that.
[speaker009:] It's like talking to that wall
[Paul:] You've got to keep on at it and it's like, like us, you've got to keep on at us sometimes,
[speaker009:] Er I've got to live next door to them that's
[Paul:] Yeah,
[speaker009:] all.
[Paul:] and sometimes it's, it's, it's er rather than ring up, write a letter, cos it's surprising how differently things are treated if it's in writing.
[speaker009:] Well I'm not the only one, this is the whole point, I'm not the only one, most everyone here's rang up about it.
[Paul:] Yeah. Yeah well phone calls can get forgotten about, you're not far away as a phone call.
[Dave:] drugs involved as well, as well as
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Dave:] And it's
[speaker009:] Yes well singing
[Dave:] been in hospital three or four times,
[speaker009:] There's, there's drugs in there, there's drug in that house, I'm sure
[Dave:] Hard stuff as well as the grass.
[Paul:] Well I, I, I'll, what I'll have to do is have a word with the local police on this, cos it's not something I can deal with tonight.
[Dave:] Oh no it was just
[Paul:] Yeah, I'll, I'll bring that up for you and see what it is.
[Dave:] If they walk in there they'd get a right haul, they'd have the lot.
[speaker009:] Coming back to the council last year, some time in May last year, and er I was telling them about the noise and the situation, at the time. And er I told them that er I wasn't p p p prepared er because they was there during the day as well, it didn't used to across to catch the school bus, and be half a dozen or so come back next door, and stop there till about twenty past three then go back, come back over as if he's got out the bus.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker009:] He was next door making noise
[Paul:] Well, I don't want I don't want to dwell too much on this.
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] I'm glad you brought that up really, in a sense, because if you complain about something, very often you can feel o on your own, that you're the only one that's doing that someone will take retribution on you
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] but as a group of people er you can support each other, it makes you feel a bit happier about complaining.. Especially if there's several others complaining as well. I suppose one of the things about Neighbourhood Watch, if, if it worked properly, is that you, there's a group of you with a common interest, and you could deal with a situation like that a bit better than you could if you were on your own.
[speaker009:] Well when I was down at the er council that May, I told them there and then that er I'm prepared to er let one of the council men come to our house, about eight o'clock in the morning, and then stop till ten and then come back again about two and wait till they come home from school which they wouldn't have come home from school, but they go across the road and come back again, double back as if they'd been to school
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] but they're not. Er I offered it for about eight hours a day, but they might send us somebody might.
[Paul:] Well keep at them.
[speaker009:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I think when you you get probably fifty five, and get them sixty retire, why should you put up with all this harassment?
[speaker009:] But th th this is
[speaker001:] It's not fair, is it? And, and I think that y until you can do something about this then you're not going to fight the crimes that occur. Cos half of it's
[Paul:] Well that's true, yeah.
[speaker001:] children anyway, aren't they?
[Paul:] I, I, er I used to have an inspector when I was on traffic and he says you take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves.
[speaker001:] That's right, yeah.
[Paul:] And if you do let the little
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Paul:] things slip then I mean it, it has a knock-on effect.
[speaker001:] Mm mm mm.
[Paul:] I mean you have no hope at all of
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Paul:] the big things if you don't tackle the little ones.
[speaker001:] Because noise, I mean it is harassing, it gets on your nerves, you know. You feel like strangling them.
[speaker009:] At the one direction it's these people next door to us I've lived there what, twenty six, twenty seven years, and we, I've people living next door, six children and never a any noise to what we get in there.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Ah but they weren't one parent families
[speaker009:] Now Mrs
[speaker001:] were they?
[speaker009:] Mrs schoolteachers
[speaker001:] Yes, but they weren't on Social Security were they?
[speaker002:] Pardon?
[speaker001:] One parent fam
[speaker002:] No
[speaker001:] One parent family, Social Security. That's where the
[speaker002:] [cough]
[speaker001:] is.
[Lyn:] Well, I don't
[speaker001:] one parent families
[Paul:] No.
[speaker001:] I think I think y with a certain you get an
[speaker002:] Yes. Not unless
[speaker001:] We get it now, we're getting altogether
[Paul:] How long have they lived there?
[speaker009:] Too long, er
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Jan:] About three years isn't it?
[speaker009:] Er,
[Jan:] Three or four years.
[speaker009:] I'm four year now.
[Jan:] Four years.
[speaker009:] Four year.
[Paul:] Yeah well
[speaker009:] but er you don't know who lives there,
[Dave:] was that different blokes living a going there, you don't know who's there.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Paul:] Well I, I can't really do much about that tonight but if, if you can leave that with me, what I'll do is I'll have a word with er
[speaker009:] Saturday
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] See if we can sort that out. Erm s certainly one of the ways is to keep
[speaker009:] that chap was on that car horn.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker009:] I looked through the bedroom and this chap was standing on this Mini, jumping up and down.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] He got off the Mini, he that went flying up street, she came out of the next door. They both got a taxi to the
[speaker007:] I was with her, I was
[speaker009:] She, he gets out, he gets her nightdress, he pushes her nightdress under dancing like a
[Paul:] This is a party is it?
[speaker009:] No
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Normal
[speaker007:] They'd been shopping.
[speaker009:] gardening and all.
[speaker002:] social workers
[Paul:] So it weren't them dancing on the car then?
[speaker002:] Hmm?
[Paul:] It wasn't them dancing on the car, it was this chap who was doing it?
[speaker009:] It was just a chap I'm sure
[speaker002:] He was [cough]
[speaker009:] no numberplates on the car cos the following morning I went out no numberplate and there were bits of car all over the street but
[speaker007:] throwed off
[speaker009:] He did.
[speaker007:] I watch
[speaker009:] Got no idea.
[speaker007:] Got no idea. Yes I
[speaker009:] alright for a
[Paul:] criminal
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Erm I've not done this before and I wanted to try it out with a small group like yourselves to see how we go on with it. What I want to do is try and find out, we'll try and put ourselves in the criminal's er position and then s see how we go about breaking into a house. That make sense?
[Jan:] Yes.
[Paul:] The o one thing that w we have to have in mind though is that the this particular criminal that we are doesn't want to get caught. Most, most criminals don't want to get caught but there are the odd exceptions who are a bit idiotic er but we erm they're very rare and usually high on drugs on something like that, but we're just your ordinary sort of down and out type criminal who wants to break in some way. Doesn't want to get caught, probably been in prison before, may even be on a suspended sentence and if they get caught they're going to go erm in prison for about more than a year or so. Er so that's, that's what we are, criminal, we don't want to get caught and want to get some money and th the way we're going to do it is to break into our house. Erm if we can just sort of work out in our own minds what, I, I don't want addresses or anything like that, so don't say oh I'll break into number six, or anything like that but just anywhere in the area of Farnsfield imagine houses yourself, is to what sort of type of house we break into. When we say that I don't mean whether it's a four or three bedroom house, I mean the sort of location it would be in, whether it would be a middle of a terrace or a middle of a string of houses, on the corner of a street or whether it would be on its own in the country somewhere or whether the back garden would back on to some playing fields or er the railway line or whether there'd be houses at the back. Whether you'd break into to it from the front, from the side, the back that sort of thing. Anybody want to start
[Dave:] an isolated place don't you? The more isolated the better.
[Lyn:] One w yeah, one where doors are. There's plenty of trees around, like mine [LAUGHTER] for instance
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Why do, why do you say that?
[Lyn:] Well then if, if someone was breaking in and they probably don't go through doors, burglars, I've never really studied it but
[Paul:] Well they do, they do,
[Lyn:] They do. Well if you [cough] if you can't see a door from the road then that will be the ideal entrance I would have thought. If it's
[Paul:] Mhm.
[Lyn:] shaded by trees.
[Paul:] So you'd go for a, you'd go for somewhere isolated?
[Selwyn:] Mm.
[Paul:] You'd go for somewhere where you can't be seen.
[Lyn:] Mhm, yeah. That's right. Mm.
[Paul:] they're similar in a way those things.
[Dave:] bloody council houses,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Ah, you're a clever criminal
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Dave:] Yeah I worked for fives years I've plenty of practice
[Paul:] Oh you're, you're h you're you'll, you'll, you'll be able to give us some tips then
[Dave:] Yeah, C S for five years.
[Paul:] So er a anybody an any other sort of houses?
[speaker001:] No, I don't think I'd go for a house that erm I wouldn't but those big houses of course it would have alarms wouldn't it?
[Paul:] Well it could do.
[speaker001:] Oh yes, so I might the one [LAUGHTER] wasn't quite as rich [].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] One with no on with no outside lights.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] And one with plenty of cover round it
[Paul:] Are you sure, are you sure that none of you've done this?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] []
[Paul:] That's, that's a sometimes you're
[Dave:] most of the big boys, they see it on television the next week they're
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Right so if we've got this house then, are w any ideas? You said secluded,wh what about corner houses, were there anybody?
[speaker007:] Yes I corner houses
[speaker002:] Yeah,
[Paul:] You'll go for corner houses
[speaker007:] very high hedge. You know and even if anybody saw you going down they wouldn't take a big deal of notice. Yes?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] And so you're covered all the way. I mean take ours, you're covered, nobody would see you would they?
[speaker002:] Yeah, that's right.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] And er and I should er get in round the back.
[Paul:] Round the back?
[speaker007:] Round the back.
[Paul:] So w w why, why then erm just see if we've got this right. If they're going for a secluded house or a house where there's plenty of trees and you can't see
[speaker002:] yes.
[Paul:] or, or a corner house and you're, you've always left it open.
[speaker007:] Definitely a corner house, all the hedges
[Jan:] Mm.
[speaker007:] are open.
[Jan:] in a corner house and she's been burgled about five times, in
[speaker002:] Yes
[Paul:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Lyn:] You see I think it's the time, I think you've got to think about what time of day as well, haven't you? I think
[Paul:] Well, yeah, that's important what, what'll we do, go at night time or in the day time?
[Lyn:] Yeah I think possibly I would go at night time. Yeah because say in a village
[speaker007:] You could go in the day Mm.
[Lyn:] if you saw anybody strange hanging around during
[speaker007:] Mm.
[Lyn:] the day, you'd think oh you know
[speaker007:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Yeah that's possible
[Lyn:] wouldn't you?
[speaker007:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Would we would we break into We're all assuming here that the house is empty I take it?
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Would you break into a house that's got someone in?
[speaker002:] No.
[Paul:] No.
[speaker009:] You could break into that one next door to us and
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Lyn:] You know you could.
[Paul:] Please.
[speaker007:] I mean you could walk in anybody, a lot of people's houses.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] television.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] And, and especially if there's a football match on.
[Lyn:] The thing is you've got to get into a routine haven't you? You've got to find what do they say? Something in the joint? Case the joint.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Lyn:] bothered to watch people
[speaker007:] Yeah you've got
[speaker002:] work. Where they are.
[Selwyn:] If you can get a house where there's a lot of thoroughfare, where people's walking by.
[Lyn:] But I wouldn't where there's a dog. And
[Selwyn:] they're, they're not going to notice one s stranger go in.
[Paul:] How would you know whether someone's in the house or not?
[speaker009:] If you're keeping surveillance on it.
[speaker002:] [background to the following]
[Jan:] Lights
[Paul:] Lights.
[Jan:] Fire er chimney
[Selwyn:] Have the windows open.
[Jan:] smoking.
[Paul:] What would the win
[Selwyn:] The bedroom win the bedroom windows are open
[Paul:] What would that what would that say to you though?
[Selwyn:] Well I mean if, if you could er
[Paul:] No I'm s what I'm saying is how would you know if someone's in or out?
[Selwyn:] I've been keeping watch for a week or two.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] []
[Paul:] So you're going to be
[speaker009:] When comes to the point. I should good haul.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] I'm glad you don't turn to crime
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] as a window cleaner.
[Selwyn:] Going in disguise.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Lyn:] Yeah oh yeah.
[Paul:] If we were to [yawn] If you were to do all this,
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] wouldn't you be better off breaking into a post office or business premises or a
[speaker007:] Yeah I
[Paul:] They're more secure?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] There's, there's too many locks and
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] window cleaner.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Well if, if, I suppose if your criminal'd be quite wise to that.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Er it might be a bit o more, more than you actually need to.
[speaker009:] But you see you only want a, a, a ladder for the time being to make sure you get up I mean you can jump
[Paul:] You're going up a ladder are you?
[speaker009:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Yeah. Well that happens.
[speaker009:] That's what I'd do,
[Paul:] That happe that happens more than you think.
[speaker009:] Oh does it?
[Selwyn:] Yes it's a well known they never put money in banks do they? Keep it in a
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] Okay so we've got s we've, we've discussed it a little while, we've already got some, I mean you're more clever at crimes than I have really.
[Dave:] Yeah
[Paul:] Cos you
[Dave:] more criminals than
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Dave:] we have.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] But you're well aware that the, the best thing to do is try and commit crime under some kind of cover, or
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] away from people that might, might see it. You don't want to get caught, you'll work in a secluded place, you'll go for a place that's got hedges around it and where you can't see the door. You'll go for a corner house where you've got hedges and can't be seen.
[speaker007:] Mm,
[Paul:] So w the thing is we don't want to be seen.
[speaker002:] No.
[Paul:] Right so the first thing we, as a crime prevention officer, we, well I look at anyway, is surrounding areas of a house that can't be seen from the road. Is there any hedges there that restrict the view to the house? Now the choices, I mean you'll have to look at, think about your house and so you can, is, is my house easily seen from the road or not? If it isn't then you've gotta make a choice of whether you want to be private or whether you want to run the risk of someone using it as cover. And it's, that's your choice. The, I would generally advise that you try and keep it fairly trim at the front. So that people can see the windows and doors. If anybody's having they'll hopefully report it. Especially now you're the Neighbourhood Watch. The other thing we talked about is er whether people are in or out. The most of would go for a house where people were out, not in. I think that's straightforward, because if there was someone in they would report you straight away. You're risking getting caught again. Erm and we're, we're not physical people are we? We're not going to actually try and grapple with someone, we just want in and out with some valuable stuff. You brought up the special point there, really that, that when someone's watching football match I think you said there are occasions where people do go into houses er that's usually through a door that's left open.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] So it's, if you're in, you've still got to think about security and you ought to be locking your doors, if you can. Erm. So what we need to do is keep the front trim. There's not much we can do with being in or out the building or is there? I mean if we're out at work, we're out at work or if w we've gone out shopping or something like that. I mean has anybody ever delivered anything to houses? Gone canvassing or or, or
[speaker002:] No.
[Paul:] anything like that? I was at a meeting with er Kenneth Clark, name-dropper [LAUGHTER] Just happened to be there and he, he, he was telling the meeting that when he's canvassing, going door to door, he, he knows as soon as walking up the drive whether there's someone in or not. And I've, I've done that and it, there's not one thing you can point to and say there's no one in here because it's several things, altogether, that indicate it, it might have been there's no car on the drive, there might've been, there might've been milk still out. That's easy, easy one that. Er and it might be that er there's a space there where a caravan looks as though it used to stand. You don't actually have to know there's a caravan, it's quite obvious when you've had one move it away. Might be that
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] your grass is a bit long. It might be that everyone's wheely-bin is out except for that particular house. Several things that make you think that there's no one in there. So if we can do something that may trick the would-be burglar into thinking there's someone in, then he may well go somewhere else. I mean if you, you're the burglar now and you're planning to break in a house, and you're looking around at the different houses and you're trying to, one of the many things you're trying to do is to establish whether they're in or out. Then if, if it looks as if they are in, you just go to the next one and look at that, you know what I mean?
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Erm right somebody said something about dogs and burglar alarms.
[Lyn:] I wouldn't go where a dog was.
[Paul:] You couldn't go was er I'm not going to recommend that everyone should go out and buy a dog.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] It's unfair on the dog, if you don't want one then you don't want one. Er if you want a dog as a pet, that's fine,i it will help. Sometimes though dogs only bark when people are in the house, they protect the person, the owner, rather than the building. There's nothing to stop you putting a sign on the gate saying Beware of the dog. Even if you haven't got one. The oth o o one other thing, er
[Dave:] I thought that was illegal
[speaker002:] No.
[Paul:] Illegal?
[Dave:] Yeah. That's why they brought these things out with dog's head on, I live here.
[speaker002:] [sneeze]
[Paul:] No, no, no that's not legal to put
[speaker002:] ... [tape change]
[Paul:] Well I'm take him to test on that
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] that there's no
[Dave:] Well he just pointed out to me he was on, I mean it wasn't it wasn't for any reason it was just a
[Paul:] Yeah but
[Dave:] even have a dog any more, but they used to have a dog, and of course
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Dave:] they left it up.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Dave:] And he said no, buy a badge now with a dog's head on depending on the breed of dog you've got, and it says on it I live here.
[Paul:] No, there's nothing, you can put any sign up as long as it doesn't
[Lyn:] Rottweiler.
[Paul:] as long as it doesn't lead anyone into any kind of danger. I mean it's not likely to in fact the opposite is true.
[speaker009:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Er another thing that I mean thought, somebody told me about the other day er it's an old thing is er gravel drives.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah.
[Paul:] Any body here
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Yeah. That sort of illustrates a point that also, you as criminals wouldn't
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[Paul:] particularly want to be heard either.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Is that right? So when you break in a house you don't, you don't want to be heard you don't want to be seen.
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] Is there anything else that would put you off breaking into a house? You've walked up the drive, there's no sign, there's no dogs no burglar alarms. You can't be seen from the road, is there anything else that might put you off?
[speaker010:] These lights
[speaker002:] Camera.
[Paul:] Pardon?
[speaker010:] Lights that come on.
[Paul:] There might, yeah.
[speaker002:] Anything
[Paul:] They can be quite startling, erm we haven't really established whether we're going at night or day properly, have we? We had a bit of a mixture, some would go at night and some at day. The important thing about night and day, most burglaries happen in the day time. Now that when most people are out. That makes sense
[speaker002:] people are in
[Paul:] Having said that
[Dave:] You create less suspicion during the day.
[Paul:] Sorry?
[Dave:] You're less suspicious during the day
[Paul:] You can be less suspicious, yeah. Cos there's a lot of movement lot of movement about. The reason people go at dark is to, they can go under cover of dark and, cos they don't want to be seen. But the, you know it's two o'clock in the morning and police car's coming through the village and see someone at that time, they're quite likely to stop and ask them what they're doing. The other thing is it's e it's easy to find out whether someone's in, in or out
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Why's that? At night The lights, yeah.
[Jan:] Curtains drawn.
[Lyn:] Mm.
[Paul:] So we're already, there's, there's people, if we're going at night time we're going to go for houses without lights on.
[speaker007:] You don't always
[Lyn:] I know when we go out we leave our lights on.
[Paul:] Yeah okay.
[Lyn:] We put all the lights on and draw the curtains when we're going to go out. Say we went out
[Paul:] Yes.
[Lyn:] at four o'clock and we weren't likely to come back till later. and the curtains are drawn.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Lyn:] You see?
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] leave an empty.
[Paul:] No, but you do that for the reason
[speaker007:] Yeah
[Paul:] just
[speaker007:] yeah.
[Paul:] make people think you're in.
[speaker007:] you're in, yeah.
[Paul:] So if there's a burglar then, he'll probably be put off by I mean if he really wanted to break into any particular house for a reason, you, you might approach it, but if you haven't got th no firm house in mind you've several houses and there's one house without any lights on at all and it was night time, you may well go for that one first. Think we've all got the right idea.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Hope it doesn't turn to crime
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] There is another good way to find out whether there's anybody in you know ain't there?
[speaker002:] Telephone.
[Dave:] does so and so live here, you
[speaker002:] No
[Dave:] say no you've got the wrong
[Paul:] That does happen.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] That does happen. Not very often. Er what we're trying to do really is to try and stop the opportunis opportunist thief. Erm most burglars
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] opportunist
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] burglaries. There's not many people er do observations, or case the joint as you say.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Happens, but they do try and go for bigger takings, I mean they'll not break into my house it won't be worth all that worth. It'll be a lot easier to go to work it's less, less hassle. Er so that. See opportunist they, they will not have a particular house in mind, they'll have, they'll just walk round till this one strikes them.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[Paul:] The mind, examine the way you, that you've done erm if you sort of apply that to your own house, you can actually cut down the chances of a burglary happening to you. Er I mean i it was done very well. The experiment's worked quite good, I was quite amazed. Quite common sense. Er burglar alarms. Is there anybody who would risk breaking into a house with a burglar alarm?
[speaker002:] No. Wouldn't risk
[Dave:] Not burglar
[Selwyn:] not unless you know all about the wiring and you could take it off yourself.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] No.
[Paul:] So even if they weren't in and you to knock on the door, the burglar alarm would stop you?
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[Paul:] Well it's bound to Yeah.
[Dave:] wiring about it and you can take it off.
[Paul:] Right.
[Dave:] Cos look at I mean in our street, our area alarms going off. There've been smoke alarms
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Dave:] people still
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Well if if, if you were on a street then, if you were a burglar and there's a house there with a burglar alarm on
[speaker009:] Ah, but do you know whether it's a burglar alarm or a smoke alarm?
[speaker002:] Yes
[Paul:] What from the?
[speaker009:] From passing. Anybody going by. Do you know whether it's a burglar alarm or a smoke alarm?
[speaker007:] Only when it's ringing.
[speaker009:] Yes.
[speaker007:] Well, I mean it's a bell isn't it?
[speaker009:] Pardon?
[speaker007:] Th s er er burglar alarm's a bell.
[Dave:] There's different sorts. Th there's different sorts and different sorts
[speaker009:] Is that
[Paul:] I don't know what you mean wh what are you t when you're talking about smoke alarm, what do you mean exactly?
[speaker009:] Well
[Paul:] Do you mean a bell on the outside of the house?
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker009:] I'm talking about inside bells now. It's inside. I mean they open the door and bell can go inside can't it? Just alarm.
[Paul:] Yeah. Right, so if we're talking about burglar alarms with the bell box on the outside of the house. Erm that would put most of you off. But
[speaker009:] If the wiring's running outside the outside the person [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Well could it er British Standards say that wiring shouldn't be external so we're okay there.
[speaker009:] Right, British Standard, yeah.
[Lyn:] Well isn't there a way there pushing chimney?
[Paul:] Down a chimney?
[Lyn:] Yeah,
[Paul:] W in the box?
[Lyn:] In the bo on the box to stop it from
[Paul:] Ye well it can be done, yeah.
[Lyn:] Yeah.
[Paul:] You know, you know
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Yeah but i it has been done that, but
[speaker001:] Oh they it at the Spar, weren't they? The other morning at half past two.
[speaker007:] I know.
[speaker001:] rang for the police. And but they'd go gone.
[Paul:] Yeah it can be done. It can yeah.
[speaker001:] That's what they're doing put
[Paul:] It's er a kind of foam that they use for insulation.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[Paul:] It's in an aerosol.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Er the the
[Lyn:] The dam the
[Paul:] That's right.
[Lyn:] Mm.
[Paul:] But the er but it can't be done on modern alarms now because the bell boxes they use are anti-foam and they probably have two or three alarm boxes. And the, the. The criminals find their way round something and then the, then the alarm companies stop it from happening. Now the alarm companies are always one behind but er if we're talking about houses, not many burglars would try a, a house with an alarm. Now you, you could in theory just put a bell box on the house to put people off. Er if you were a fairly decent criminal though you, you may well have a look through the windows to see if you can see any detectors on the wall, just to confirm it, because by now you'd be thinking that a lot of these are dummies.
[speaker009:] Aye look at, look at the hall over in village. and they when the main street. Some time or other you hear that court bell ringing don't you?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] Do you know whether it's a fire alarm or not? Nobody knows
[speaker002:] No.
[Paul:] Oh you hear it, it's rung for as much as twenty minutes while I've been walking round.
[Lyn:] Or the shops in
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but you don't do anything about it.
[Paul:] Okay then so
[speaker009:] Just along those
[speaker001:] If it's a fire bell, tell me ring the fireman If it's a, an alarm
[Paul:] Well I, I'll talk about
[speaker001:] continuously
[Dave:] no real point then, putting a bell box on. Not having alarm so you put a bell box on.
[Paul:] Just a bell box.
[Dave:] What with some villains that will only go to houses with something like that, because they think, they see that you've got something worth having.
[Paul:] Well I've heard
[Dave:] Otherwise you wouldn't have it.
[Paul:] I've heard this quite a lot, it's a, it's a common
[Dave:] It depends what kind of burglar you're talking about. I mean the days of the black mask and blue and white jersey have gone. It's designer suits and bloody
[speaker007:] Stocking
[Dave:] these days.
[Paul:] I've not known
[Dave:] I mean you can't tell a burglar
[Paul:] I've not known many burglars break into houses with alarms systems.
[Lyn:] No I don't er
[Paul:] And this, this comment about that they think you've got something in the house worth pinching doesn't really come into it. But some, some will say that in bravado. If you worked for the probation service you'll know
[Dave:] Yeah well that's what it is
[Paul:] Well I
[Dave:] burglar alarm cost a, the whole system costs a lot of money to set up, so if you've got in here it's not going to put that expense to set that up.
[Paul:] Well actually I think they're very cheap, burglar alarms, they're about three hundred and fifty four hundred pound. When you think about the wiring involved, and the, the hours it takes to put one in I think that they're good value for money.
[Dave:] Hmm.
[Paul:] It's about the same price as a video.
[Dave:] Oh they've come down in price from when I'm talking about, when they first come first out, they were quite a lot, a lot more
[speaker007:] I reckon the easiest way
[Dave:] expensive than that.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] and I would do it is to go during the day, knock on somebody's door and pretend I'm selling something. And then say I want to go to toilet and then I should pinch something
[Paul:] Yeah. Mm.
[speaker007:] And it's done.
[speaker002:] unless they wanted to get
[speaker007:] And then you could be going in
[speaker009:] It's just a deterrent the same as what's on cars.
[Dave:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] Only a deterrent isn't it?
[Paul:] Well they will, they will if they really want to get in. What what I'm saying if you, if you put yourself in the position of a burglar, and y you're already, you've done it, you're already making choices.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] You're already saying I'm not doing that one because
[speaker002:] Mm. Mm.
[Paul:] I would do a house like this.
[speaker002:] Mm. Mm.
[Paul:] Well what you've got to do now is think about your own house and in the same way you've just thought about it and say what is there about my house that would attract somebody to try and break into it. And then think how can I stop that from happening. Now the burglar alarm's probably the, the biggest thing, but we can't all afford the, I mean I haven't got one and I'm a crime prevention officer, I mean by rights I should have one but I haven't. So it, it won't suit everybody, you might not want, in my case I don't particularly want to live with a burglar alarm. Er because you have to switch them on and off and all this business. I'm, I'm sure I'd change my mind if I was burgled. The very next day I'm sure there'd be er someone round our house putting one up on the wall S s so w if we use the same thing that we've just done on our own house and say how can we stop it from happening, might not get a burglar alarm. It might, it might be though cutting the hedges back a little bit. It might be doing things at night time, leaving the lights on, to make it look as though you're in. Drawing curtains. If you're away on holiday and can't do that getting a neighbour to do it for you, to look after your house, shut the curtains at night and opening them during the day. Er it might be putting a sign up on the, on the fence saying beware of the dog, it might be having a gravel drive. Er it might be having someone making sure the out of the way, to make sure it looks as those there's mil that there's someone in, in or out the house. Some people even leave radios on in the house, so that there's not only the light on, but if somebody does walk up the drive intending to knock on the door to test it, before they get to the door they can hear a noise, they turn around and go back. It might be having lights on like you mentioned.
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] So when someone walks up with the intention of breaking in a light comes on, I mean at one time, it's not the same now, but at one time when these lights with the detectors first came out, nobody actually knew whether they were switched on or not. People had gone up to a house and been knocking on the door waiting for someone to come because the light had come on and they thought there must be somebody in because they switched the light on when they saw me come up the drive, and these are visitors. So it might put, might have put some burglars off, that's not the same case nowadays cos they're so common. But the thing is if you're walking up er the driveway of a house, you don't want to be caught and you don't want to be seen and you, you think you're under cover of darkness and then the big halogen floodlight comes on, puts you in a spotlight next door. So we're all, we're all thinking very well as criminals.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Er it's just a matter of swapping it round now and thinking about your own home and i like you mentioned, it's not, if you are in you're, you're, you're still likely to be, well not likely, you still could be er targeted and the burglar who just opens a door and reaches in and takes
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] something.
[Lyn:] Yeah, yeah.
[Paul:] So it's important to keep doors locked. The only thing you haven't mentioned is, is locks on doors yet
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] er and I'll just run through this for about five minutes and then any questions and we'll go. But if you c if there's a burglar who got to the house,
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] you've selected your house and everything's okay. How would you break in?... What's the best way in? Door? Window
[speaker009:] Glass cutter.
[Paul:] You use a glass cutter.
[speaker009:] nine times, nine times out of ten the, the er door the back door or the front door has got a great big pane of glass on top of it.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Lyn:] Is the top, I mean I broke, had to get in my own house when I locked myself out once when I'd been in the garden and I, I just got in by leaning through the top window and opening the bottom window, so now I always lock the bottom windows, I don't bother locking the top one I open it
[Paul:] So you've got locks for the windows?
[Lyn:] So I lock the bottom window. Yeah. So that if even if they reach through they're going to have to break the lock just to get in.
[Paul:] So if you were a criminal then you would look for an open window to reach through t to open another window?
[Lyn:] To reach in yes I wouldn't I couldn't
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Lyn:] do it. I, I
[Paul:] You'd use a glass cutter in the door?
[speaker009:] Mm.
[Paul:] Or a window, would you use it on?
[speaker009:] Pardon?
[Paul:] Would you use a glass cutter in a window? Or just a door?
[speaker009:] Yes, if necessary yes. It's a er it's a means of getting in isn't it?
[Paul:] Why would use a glass cutter and not just smash the window?
[speaker009:] Well it so much noise doesn't it?
[speaker001:] noise
[speaker002:] I'm not
[speaker009:] Just scratch
[Paul:] Yes.
[Selwyn:] All you want to do is, all you wanted to do just strike it in middle of glass go round it just
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Jan:] I lived in my house for going on for a year before I realized that all you had to do was put your hand through my letter box, reach up and you could take, open the Yale lock because I'd been there a year I locked myself out and I thought the only thing I can do is try and get in by putting my hand through. It was as easy as anything, and for a long time I, I felt well at least I can get in that way and then I thought oh maybe I should, you know doing, doing anything about it, but now I always go out of the other door
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Jan:] and bolt that one because I don't want anybody to be there when I get back. I don't mind if they've been, but if they're waiting or
[Paul:] [LAUGHTER] It's, it's funny because we, we were having this conversation before we came in weren't we?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Er someone tells him that, a policeman tells him the best way to look at it is if you were locked out your house
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] y your key's in the inside, how would you get in? Yeah I mean
[speaker007:] You're not supposed to leave your key in anyway.
[Paul:] Well no but er I think we're, we've all got an idea how we'd get into our own house if we were locked out.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Well I haven't really because I've got double glazing.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Well I couldn't get in my house cos I'd have to undo
[Paul:] You could really get in most houses if you really wanted
[speaker007:] If I locked my door at night, I was to take the key out, never leave the key in never leave the key in
[speaker002:] Mine's got
[Selwyn:] Mine's locked and I've got a chain on as well.
[speaker009:] Mine's
[Paul:] Right.
[speaker009:] My wife will er at night time she locks all the doors, she takes all keys out.
[Jan:] Yeah, you're supposed to do it.
[speaker009:] She takes all key out. piece of paper shove a key out, pull it out. [hand clap]
[Jan:] That's it.
[Paul:] I've still, I've, I've actually
[Dave:] something that's even more stupid than that.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Dave:] I've got two back doors, there's a storm porch and the door to the house and they're both locked and bolted. I've even got five lever mortise locks.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Dave:] We've got two dogs, we've got double glazing, and the front door's got a five lever mortise lock.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Dave:] And we've got no hedge on. We've got out back, it's all sheltered, next door's got more for years to put them down the front, my wife won't let me for the same reason she says if you blind yourself then any bugger can come in.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Dave:] But our front door is never locked. There you are. We go to bed and I say, you locked the front door?
[speaker002:] [cough]
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Paul:] Could
[Dave:] But I don't think they'll get in, as I say there's two dogs
[speaker009:] I'm always first in bed at night, all those windows.
[Paul:] Can I
[speaker009:] Twenty minutes later she [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] A lot of people point in, it's quite important that you, you made when you said using glass cutter erm and you said about reaching through open windows. And I asked why wouldn't you break a window and you said noise. Is there any, any other reason you can think of why somebody wouldn't break a window?
[Dave:] Why you wouldn't break a
[Paul:] Why you wouldn't break a window to break a window, why you'd go to the trouble of using a glass cutter
[speaker001:] If you broke a window you could cut yourself,
[Paul:] Yeah yeah, that's about it really. In my experience and er it's backed up by research, a burglar will, will only break glass if it, if they can reach through to open a window, in much the same way that
[Lyn:] Mm.
[Paul:] you would look for an open window.
[Lyn:] Mm.
[Paul:] Er they don't particularly like to make a, a noise, but some, some do if it's quick. If someone has to break a window and knock out all the glass it makes even more noise. I mean it's falling on the floor. Erm so if they do something with, with windows that makes them actually the, the open way they can break in is to break all the glass out, and the way you would do that is to fit a window lock. So even if they made a little, if they've got the glass cutter, made a little round hole then reached, still couldn't get the window open they'd be forced to break the whole lot and make more noise. Er they can be quite effective.
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] It's only a little thing, putting window locks on, on, on, you wouldn't buy a house now without a lock on the door, but a lot of people still buy houses without locks on the windows. I'm afraid that, you know, those days are limited. Eventually we'll all have locks on windows
[speaker007:] fully insured are you? For burglary if you haven't got locks on
[Paul:] Well
[speaker007:] your windows.
[Paul:] with certain of the, the insurance companies, that's true, yeah er it's always worth checking. I've got to mention insurance, cos now you're in the Neighbourhood Watch you get a discount on your house contents. So next time your insurance is due, tell them that you're in the Neighbourhood
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Paul:] Watch.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] Any sort of final comments anyone? Er er I don't think after going through everything we've said, I think we've all got the sort of ideas that we could all make good criminals, er we know what to do. If we know what to do we can all look at our own houses and decide how we can alter them in not too expensive ways to make it a bit harder for the criminal. Erm and r really that's all crime prevention's about. It's all about looking after your house is about, using the neighbours, using the knowledge you've got to make it more difficult. Any
[Jan:] When, when this was first suggested erm was couple of questions came back and Selwyn and I spoke about it, was the fact that w are there or would there be any recriminations for people who kind of belong to any Neighbourhood Watch, like a brick through a window or, or, because anybody who saw erm that programme on television
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Jan:] a fortnight, Esther Rantzen, and Neighbourhood Watch was mentioned.
[Paul:] Was that, was a in the front garden? Was that
[Jan:] I only came into the room and I switched it on and i there were quite a lot of recriminations with people who
[Lyn:] Yeah it were Manch was it Manchester?
[Paul:] I don't know I just watched a clip
[Lyn:] And she said you're nothing but a load of old busybodies and how dare you and oh the language. Because
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Lyn:] these people actually set up a Neighbourhood Watch and you know any reason
[Dave:] Well you shouldn't get that where we are
[Lyn:] It wasn't
[Dave:] everybody was in agree I mean all them were all in agreement.
[Lyn:] Yeah it wasn't a very good part
[Dave:] Everybody agreed
[Lyn:] of Manchester it was
[Dave:] Yeah.
[Lyn:] an awful part of Manchester.
[Dave:] Erm
[Paul:] Yeah it's it certainly is an issue that would er worry a lot of people in a
[Jan:] Yeah.
[Paul:] inner city.
[Dave:] next door.
[Lyn:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] Exactly that's
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] Er which is better place big window
[speaker002:] as far as I can see.
[Paul:] Not in the big window?
[speaker009:] No
[Paul:] Why?
[Dave:] sign their names and
[Jan:] Mm.
[speaker002:] everything.
[Jan:] Yeah.
[Dave:] There'll be no having said, next
[Paul:] It's a deterrent,
[speaker007:] ignore it they think it, that it's just they
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] ignore it don't they? They don't do anything
[Dave:] Yes especially cos you don't know what it's for half the bloody time, she doesn't know where she is.
[speaker009:] She ignores you whatever
[Paul:] Right erm
[speaker009:] she just
[Dave:] Well that makes
[Paul:] Can I, can I sort wind? I've given you these
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] green books. Er they go into crime prevention in, in a fairly big way. Have a read through them at your leisure. Er the blue book is just a guide for yourselves as cos Neighbourhood Watch members. And stickers are for the windows. Do take some more for your neighbours people who couldn't be here today. Er distribute them round. The thing about the Neighbourhood Watch is that everyone in the area is a member whether they really want to be one or not to be honest. Er just living in it makes them a member. I mean there's no, there's no fee or anything like that involved, so the fact that you're all seen as members will cut down on any recriminations you might have. I don't think that's a real threat in Farnsfield to be honest. The worst we've had recrimination-wise with Neighbourhood Watch schemes, is some people bend the signs and spray, spray paint them but I think you could live with that. Er but I, I don't think that'll happen in Farnsfield. You never know,some somebody walking home from the pub one night with a bit too much, too much to drink might just bend the sign. But that happens to all street signs,
[Lyn:] Mm. Mm.
[Paul:] occasionally. It's just that it does som sometimes seem temptation. Right erm I, I do wish you well with your scheme
[Jan:] Thank you.
[Paul:] Er you've got a lot of work to do if this is got here tonight, er just s spread the word, tell them it's not as bad as they probably think it is, there's no patrols needed or anything like that. And er I'd like to sort of thank Jan on your behalf and all the other people for taking the trouble to, to organize this scheme and get things rolling because it, it will be a little financial benefit to you when you renew your insurance, so thanks for that, Jan. And er, unless there's any last questions I think that's about it.
[Dave:] No I want to get back to see the sheep at nine o'clock. [LAUGHTER]
[Jan:] Thanks ever so much for coming in
[speaker002:] [background to following]
[Paul:] That's alright, I've en I've enjoyed
[Jan:] I'm just sorry that a few more people didn't turn, at least there's more
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Jan:] than two.
[Paul:] To be to be honest i I, I, it's been, the presentation I've given tonight has been slightly different, it's the first time I tried it and it was really successful.
[Jan:] Mm.
[Paul:] I don't know how you felt about it.
[speaker002:] [background to following]
[Paul:] do that with two hundred people
[Jan:] No.
[Paul:] in the
[Jan:] No.
[Paul:] Er it has to be a small group. Er
[Dave:] It's not the fact we live on a council estate, more likely to have No it's not fact that normal go up the private estates, this is probably your first time on a council estate, the bloody hell it's come from.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I know
[Paul:] Actually I checked out all about
[speaker002:] [cough]
[Paul:] who was walking down to the telephone kiosk and asked all the questions about the area so that I
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Well
[speaker007:] you know.
[Dave:] anyway that.
[Paul:] Yeah they are.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] I was in the Lion, fortnight ago, Sunday dinnertime and lads had been on this er bike ride, you know for some children
[Paul:] Mm.
[speaker009:] They parked their two bikes outside the round door over at the Lion, came in, one ordered two drinks and he said I'll just nip across to phone. Alright, come back and the had gone. [hand clap]
[Dave:] aren't they? I mean there's a shop just here agri erm does agricultural machinery and repairs and that. He gets broken into regular.
[Paul:] Mm.
[Dave:] Yeah, gets broken into regular, cigarettes and booze.
[Paul:] Well when I was here they were dealing with somebody er for stealing salmon out of
[Dave:] Yeah the Co-op.
[Paul:] Co-op.
[Dave:] Yeah, yeah.
[Paul:] And that was a real
[Dave:] Oh it happens regular down this
[speaker009:] Oh well that's because [LAUGHTER] nobody takes any notice about []
[Paul:] That, that was, that was a real big job, the salmon thefts, it were quite funny, they were going in all sorts of shops, just stealing salmon.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Paul:] That's all they stole. The, the salmons were expensive I didn't realize how expensive it was.
[speaker001:] wee you see that they, they lost a lot of
[Paul:] Yeah well this before.
[Jan:] big display up of salmon, you know he took
[Lyn:] allowed to take as much as you can.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Dave:] [chairs being stacked]