[speaker001:] So that what we did was, first of all when you filled in your initial choice... and then we got a... a team choice... and now perhaps, what would make a lot of sense is that if we have... the first few... er... team answers one member of this team... er, and then we'll go through the others. And
[P. Finister:] alright the one thing we will certainly mark... is that the answer which you get does depend on the way in which you read some of the statements... or some of the principles. Erm, but what I... wanted us to do is to start getting some discussion going and, so that you're actually getting a bit closer to one another. Let's go through this team here. You can do it... Mary, if you like. What, what did you get for the... fir, or what did you reckon the first set of claims you decided wanted to be accomplished.
[M. Bonner:] Truth.
[P. Finister:] Everybody agree with truth.
[S. Whitworth:] Yes.
[M. Brome:] Yeah.
[S. Whitworth:] Yes.
[P. Finister:] Yes. I think so. Erm... and that's not just in selling, is it? I mean that's in everything. Er... you get,sa instructor and they say that if a training course which is gonna start at half past eight on February the tenth, erm... yeah well that's what we gotta do then you gotta start looking to the planning towards haven't you? And you gotta there, when you gotta there, and so on and so on. So he gets... the first and decide what you wanna get to. But if you don't do that, any road'll get you there. And I think that's something that we'll certainly discuss tomorrow, on Thursday. If you are, what I want you to do is to, to create a, a team plan... and the first thing we need to decide in that team plan is where do we wanna get? What do we wanna do? Not, we wanna increase sales because everybody wants to do that, but if we've gotta increase sales, by what? Is it five percent? Ten percent? Thirty percent? We wanna get more, you know, there's th,thi thi this er, there is no point really in saying things like, what I'd like to do is to improve the quality of the appointments because that don't tell you anything. It has to be some solid reason. Some absolute measurable thing. Okay. Any, any customers been another customer at all?
[M. Bonner:] All of us.
[M. Brome:] All of us.
[P. Finister:] Yes I think so. I think so. Otherwise, we'd have all the... I'd be, be discussing what it is.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] [LAUGHTER] Right []!
[J. Walton:] Means testing.
[P. Finister:] They're sort of sales for sales sake. Yeah.
[J. Hartley:] Oh. I'm
[P. Finister:] Erm
[J. Hartley:] just being awkward.
[P. Finister:] I, well
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] there's nothing wrong with that.
[M. Bonner:] As you know.
[P. Finister:] There's nothing wrong with that. I mean we've all, we've all seen the results of any customer who's a bit of a nervous so sort haven't we?
[S. Whitworth:] Well, that's putting that well
[P. Finister:] I think we have.
[S. Whitworth:] Dave I think.
[P. Finister:] As sorts.
[D. Inman:] Yeah, you dru, you draw up one aren't you?
[S. Whitworth:] Mm mm.
[D. Inman:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] That's right. Yes. I mean, it's er... it's wo, that's one we refer to as the Donnis mobile cos we can use that when the American Express comes through. Erm, but the er, yes any customer know, knows when you're talking a load of nonsense. Erm... thought so didn't they?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[D. Inman:] True.
[P. Finister:] A salesperson should never abandon hope of winning an account.
[J. Hartley:] Which is really great!
[S. Whitworth:] Woo hoo! That's a good one isn't it?
[P. Finister:] Well you have to something there.
[M. Bonner:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Does anybody, everybody think true?
[L. Birbeck:] No.
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Yeah, times change don't they?
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Buyers change, companies change, attitudes change, markets change. Our
[S. Whitworth:] Yep.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[S. Whitworth:] Yes, they go off.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] What about this one? We'll ask Linda this time, when it says good plans, sell, require, retain.
[L. Birbeck:] I put false.
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[D. Inman:] Yeah.
[M. Dighton:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] I think that has to be the chain.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Because it might be a good plan today
[J. Hartley:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] But I wonder how good it is... tomorrow? You know, with things changing and that, and that.... Ah! Here's a nice one.
[S. Whitworth:] Hmm.
[P. Finister:] Erm
[L. Birbeck:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] right, the effective sales person puts most of his or her effort into prospecting for new accounts? False.
[J. Walton:] False.
[D. Inman:] True.
[M. Dighton:] I put true.
[D. Inman:] True.
[P. Finister:] Somebody else er you're prospecting rather than using your current
[S. Whitworth:] What about your time plan this morning?
[J. Hartley:] The sheets, the sheets this morning... proved that.
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[J. Hartley:] Three hours prospecting on the B L S and three hours prospecting from... from nine o'clock till twelve.
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[S. Whitworth:] That's six hours prospecting.
[D. Inman:] I put true. I'm, I'm with you lads.
[P. Finister:] Yeah? Er, you did er have sort of fair factual discussion then?
[D. Inman:] I were only one
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[D. Inman:] who put true.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[D. Inman:] These, put
[S. Whitworth:] Yes, I'd have thought it was true. Erm
[J. Walton:] True.
[S. Whitworth:] I'd have thought that what is, what is
[P. Finister:] I'm not saying, obviously if somebody existing based on that. That is, that is right. You have to look after your existing customers of course whether they are Well you see most of us don't do this.
[speaker001:] It doesn't say time Peter, it says effort.
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[S. Whitworth:] Effort. Yeah.
[J. Hartley:] Yeah, but you put, you must be putting about five hours effort of a day into prospecting accounts. Three hours, nine till twelve prospecting... or cold calling whatever you wanna call it. Another two, three hours of doing
[speaker001:] But
[J. Hartley:] this.
[speaker001:] Yeah, but you look when you're receiving the trade from the prospecting [cough] when you receive your trade from a prospect [cough] you have this amount of trade in and this amount of prospect and your telling me if I have half trade in and half prospect, I'd like to see the difference in how much time you spent on
[M. Brome:] Yeah but
[speaker001:] on each one.
[M. Brome:] yeah but the thing is you don't do it, it's a
[J. Hartley:] You don't have a, you don't have a se se
[M. Brome:] So you prospect.
[speaker001:] Yeah but if you did, yeah but it's a very difficult question. Effort and then a prospect an area where you want
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] to, you've got time there
[M. Dighton:] Yeah but you do, well you do actually measure a regular more distance.
[J. Hartley:] At the end of the day you do need to get business
[speaker001:] Well I put
[J. Hartley:] in.
[speaker001:] yeah, but there's no point in losing business for new business. [LAUGHTER]
[S. Whitworth:] That's true. But we're not saying that. But it's
[J. Hartley:] Yeah, but if if
[S. Whitworth:] actually time spent prospecting.
[speaker001:] It's not time
[J. Hartley:] if.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[S. Whitworth:] Then, then
[speaker001:] Even though it's not. It's not.
[S. Whitworth:] Well I think that's, I think you can categorize, you can say right... e, the effectiveness is if you spend seventy five percent of your effort getting prospect accounts on, but you still use twenty five percent of it, to, to Yeah. Exactly. To retain existing, then you're still gonna be paying the business on and you're still gonna be able to look after er
[P. Finister:] Right.
[S. Whitworth:] the existing. You just, it's just
[speaker001:] I don't know.
[S. Whitworth:] whether you get that one percent
[P. Finister:] What d'ya think?
[S. Whitworth:] a fortnight
[J. Hartley:] Sorry?
[S. Whitworth:] it makes no
[P. Finister:] What d'ya think?
[S. Whitworth:] difference.
[J. Hartley:] What do I think?
[speaker001:] Yeah, but John when you say the word
[P. Finister:] What d'ya think?
[speaker001:] effort you want.
[J. Hartley:] I think if Tom was sat there it would be ninety percent. You know?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[J. Hartley:] Because he, he didn't
[speaker001:] He just.
[J. Hartley:] really wanna be in on anything else but except business.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[speaker001:] Once you shared the time.
[J. Hartley:] Honestly.
[P. Finister:] Number six then.
[S. Whitworth:] I'm happy to be.
[P. Finister:] Maximizing sales volume is the most important task of the sales person?
[M. Bonner:] Oh, solely.
[S. Whitworth:] False, you put here.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I put false here [].
[P. Finister:] Well, I think you need to recognize that really sales volume is, it it takes us back again to the fact that any customer is better than no customer at all.
[M. Dighton:] We were saying, we were just saying maximizing sales as in more otherwise it's sales potential rather
[P. Finister:] Yes.
[M. Dighton:] than
[P. Finister:] Er er, er what we're, what
[speaker001:] Maximizing what we've got.
[P. Finister:] what we are about, or what every sales company should be about is making money.
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] And, er er and just increasing sales volume, or maximizing sales volume ain't gonna do it.
[D. Inman:] Ah we ought to more or less max, maximize the
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[D. Inman:] sales figures
[P. Finister:] Right. It's, it's maximizing the sale of the revenue and, and rising the revenue is what we talked about. Oh yes, that one. What's it called? So a resistance can be used with that and of course it indicates interest in the product?
[M. Bonner:] True.
[speaker001:] True.
[P. Finister:] All the time that, that's what
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] an objection is.
[M. Bonner:] Mhm.
[P. Finister:] And I think that's, there's something which we... most of us fear.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]... I hope not.
[P. Finister:] So the resistance is diminished by stretching the novel features of a new product? Jane?
[M. Bonner:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] What do you think?
[M. Bonner:] Agree.
[S. Whitworth:] We had a
[D. Inman:] I think
[S. Whitworth:] discussion about this as well.
[D. Inman:] I think we misunderstood novel features as a bad thing to be honest.
[speaker001:] Yes, we were saying we we can
[M. Bonner:] No, but you, we we were asking about.
[speaker001:] you can
[P. Finister:] Novel features.
[speaker001:] you can overcome objections
[P. Finister:] Novel is the word there.
[speaker001:] by... offering the benefits of a product.
[P. Finister:] Not necessarily novel though is it?
[D. Inman:] No, no, that's what I'm saying novel, that's why novel's the key word. Novel.
[P. Finister:] What have you got the one right wing here?
[J. Walton:] Nothing at all.
[P. Finister:] Yeah. But well
[L. Birbeck:] I had, well I had
[P. Finister:] er er
[L. Birbeck:] false at first and then we had a big discussion about it.
[P. Finister:] Yeah, right.
[J. Hartley:] We had false particularly until we, new product coming out.
[P. Finister:] [LAUGHTER]... I would think that was false to be honest.
[D. Inman:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Er
[D. Inman:] It's the novel, that did it.
[P. Finister:] And well
[J. Hartley:] Yeah, yeah.
[P. Finister:] I think what happens all the time, I understand why, if you put true you me, you you put it... was that the one thing that sales people always desperately want is something new. Okay? Er, differently, that's not new. Erm, and I think that probably er, I think that's false but... it's er interesting discussion.
[J. Hartley:] Yes.
[P. Finister:] Er... when a sales person closes... he, though I suppose I should say, that he or she should use that closing technique which is most suited to his or her personality?
[D. Inman:] This is the one we were debating.
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[J. Hartley:] I had true, but I got outnumbered
[J. Walton:] I had true.
[J. Hartley:] so I put a false in that one.
[P. Finister:] You got outnumbered. Right.
[L. Birbeck:] I had true.
[J. Walton:] I had true.
[M. Dighton:] Said false. Me and David said false.
[speaker001:] True.
[P. Finister:] What, what should we be co considering the customer at any time? You see, in my view... each, each customer is different. You don't close the same way with every customer. Right. So is it the fact that the... that what th th th the close should be most suited to... the customer Yeah.
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] rather than ourselves? Yeah. That'd be fair I think.
[L. Birbeck:] Because you close with your own personality anyway don't you really?
[P. Finister:] Right. I think
[S. Whitworth:] And also, he's buying you as well as he's buying the product.
[P. Finister:] Yes, I think so, I think, that is of course, I I think that... erm... that the close which you use
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] has to be geared to the customer. Er, and not your personality. And this is a nice one then isn't it? [reading] The direct close the most successful technique because it's the most honest. []
[M. Bonner:] Don't ask us. Don't ask us.
[J. Hartley:] No.
[P. Finister:] Pretty good was it?
[M. Bonner:] Yeah.
[S. Whitworth:] We got anti
[P. Finister:] That's right. That's right. What about this side?
[M. Brome:] Well we got true, but I
[M. Bonner:] True.
[M. Brome:] would say false.
[P. Finister:] [LAUGHTER]
[M. Bonner:] I would say false as well.
[M. Brome:] He said true and we said true.
[J. Hartley:] He's, well we start off with that.
[M. Brome:] Oh I'll let you off.
[P. Finister:] It's an interesting one because er er, really the thing,th the sentence goes, or the, the principle works very well until you get to the word honest.
[M. Brome:] Yeah. That's right.
[M. Bonner:] Exactly. That's what we're laughing at.
[J. Walton:] Bingo!
[M. Bonner:] That's what we're arguing on.
[P. Finister:] What the hell's honesty got to do with it? Ah I I think er
[M. Bonner:] The most obvious.
[P. Finister:] Yes, that's right. I'm not sure that honesty's a word which I would er... don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that a salesman's dishonest, don't think that.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] What I am suggesting though I think is that... you know, a close which is referred to as being the best of course is th the most honest is the
[M. Brome:] Yeah the
[J. Hartley:] Well well Peter can, can't you remember Espinear formula?
[P. Finister:] Yes.
[J. Hartley:] Where we were dru, the spi, the Espinear used to be drummed down for about five, six, seven years.
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[J. Hartley:] So he would have known.
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[J. Hartley:] Assuming the
[P. Finister:] Actually you could have gone to the A M Express conference and heard it. I played a cowboy actually talking about
[speaker001:] Espinear close.
[J. Hartley:] Espinear assuming that it is question physical action judgements trapped the narrative close, and ask for the order.
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[J. Hartley:] So
[D. Inman:] How did you memorize that?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Because that's the way you learnt it.
[J. Hartley:] Used to be in all the quizzes.
[P. Finister:] That's right. Ever heard
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] of a Espinear close That's right.
[J. Hartley:] What do
[M. Bonner:] They all can
[speaker001:] [sneeze].
[J. Hartley:] After you.
[M. Bonner:] everybody can remember what it stands for [LAUGHTER] but they can't do it [].
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[J. Hartley:] Well, ask for the order it is.
[P. Finister:] Yeah. That's right.
[J. Hartley:] They all er ask for the order
[P. Finister:] It's the,i the di, they used the word honest.
[M. Bonner:] No.
[P. Finister:] Ah sure well that,th th that's, that's what, but anyway, as long as it created discussion, that was the point of it. And good product of service will sell itself?
[speaker001:] False.
[M. Bonner:] No.
[P. Finister:] No. No, that'll be the day won't it?
[L. Birbeck:] False.
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] False that one is. A knowledge of human psychology is important when
[L. Birbeck:] False again.
[P. Finister:] selling? Now then... that's
[speaker001:] Only one of the seven up here, we all said true. True.
[P. Finister:] But bear in mind she's, you know, she's walked out of the
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] That's right. So what do you think of that? I think we all feel that's true don't we?
[J. Hartley:] I do.
[P. Finister:] Apart from the odd er fact and most of research... we don't need
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] erm, we don't need a degree in it, but some. Other people's problems.
[speaker001:] It's a
[M. Bonner:] Yeah I do. Cos last time
[P. Finister:] I'm going, anyway.
[M. Bonner:] with the exact same sheet that I did to start with.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[M. Bonner:] You said we didn't need anything because I
[P. Finister:] Social skills
[M. Bonner:] true last time
[P. Finister:] Right.
[M. Bonner:] and it was
[S. Whitworth:] We're not getting rid of that now.
[P. Finister:] Social skills are relatively unimportant for a salesperson?
[speaker001:] False.
[P. Finister:] I think we need certain social skills don't you?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[P. Finister:] Erm, and more so on the telephone than we ought... and more on the telephone than some, sometimes we do... er erm... face to face. A person does not buy the product but rather buy what it'll do for him or her.
[speaker001:] True.
[P. Finister:] Yes, that's right.... A former customer, one who no longer buys anything is of little value?
[speaker001:] False. False.
[P. Finister:] Yeah. I think so. Cos he changes doesn't he? And er... okay? Right, well let's generate the do, discussion and er... get you all er... involved in something else for... three quarters of an hour. Right. I want now to... show you this er... film then, and there's no point in having [break in recording]... Alright we're taking on everything. Doing... far more than we can reasonably do and if you like, doing it... by very definition, badly, or worse than it could have done. Right, that's one message that comes out of it. What else?
[speaker001:] Slow.
[M. Brome:] No effort.
[P. Finister:] Right. There's no thinking time at all is there?
[M. Bonner:] No.
[P. Finister:] Right. Okay.
[M. Bonner:] No, there's no planning or... nothing's diarized.
[S. Whitworth:] Everything's all
[P. Finister:] No plan.
[S. Whitworth:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] No diary.
[M. Brome:] There's, there's no concentration
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[M. Brome:] no concentration with the job in hand. Everything
[L. Birbeck:] [LAUGHTER] Looks like me and Jack [].
[M. Brome:] distracts him from what he's doing and he the distraction.
[L. Birbeck:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] The what?
[speaker001:] No plans. No details.
[D. Inman:] Never saw one job through.
[speaker001:] Mm mm.
[D. Inman:] He kept on doing one job.
[J. Walton:] Yeah, instead of, instead of from
[J. Hartley:] One from the other.
[J. Walton:] from start to finish he didn't just
[L. Birbeck:] Finish one job at a time.
[J. Walton:] finish one job. In which
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[J. Walton:] it would one job less to do.
[P. Finister:] So, this fact that there's no plan, or appeared to be no diary although there was a diary wasn't there? He had stuff wrote
[M. Brome:] Yeah,
[P. Finister:] down on it.
[J. Walton:] Yeah, and he didn't, he didn't listen to any of the people
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[J. Walton:] what the people
[L. Birbeck:] Ha!
[J. Walton:] had to say, he just... just said yes, yes, all afternoon.
[L. Birbeck:] Yeah, he just
[P. Finister:] Right.
[L. Birbeck:] kept saying yes to everything just to barge them off.
[S. Whitworth:] He didn't listen did he?
[P. Finister:] No.
[D. Inman:] No, no, not at all.
[J. Walton:] He had too many interruptions.... Hmm.
[J. Hartley:] Er we said the, said ignoring the needs.
[J. Walton:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] Where was that?
[speaker001:] Well his secretary when he was on
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] the phone.
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[L. Birbeck:] And he kept checking up.
[speaker001:] And he
[J. Hartley:] The guy in
[speaker001:] sort of hung up on him.
[J. Hartley:] the guy in the car park when he forgot to ring him back about some important business.
[P. Finister:] The managing director?
[J. Walton:] He kept ringing.
[J. Hartley:] Yeah. The managing director... spoke [LAUGHTER] from the car and he never followed it up [].
[speaker001:] And he kept
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[speaker001:] he wanted to be the decision maker, and he wanted to make the decision on every single thing himself and then he was turning round and saying to his secretary, well can't you do anything? Do I have to do everything? Whereby he, had obviously made it clear from the start
[S. Whitworth:] Mm.
[speaker001:] he was the only one with the authority.
[J. Walton:] He kept checking up on erm
[J. Hartley:] Not that he trusted anyone either because when they were doing the wages
[J. Walton:] kept checking up on people's like erm... capabilities as well instead of getting on with his own job he kept checking up on their them all as well.
[P. Finister:] So he's checking up on everybody?
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Even if he lets them do something.
[J. Walton:] Mm.
[J. Hartley:] Mhm. The wages, he didn't trust her with the wages. He messed about on the calculator.
[P. Finister:] That's right. You'd expect a wages clerk to be able to handle it wouldn't you?
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[L. Birbeck:] Er, and also that er when he went into
[J. Walton:] Hmm!
[L. Birbeck:] appointment... he erm... he let, he let the client take over the... the call because he wasn't erm prepared enough... when he weren't there.
[P. Finister:] Right, so when he went in to see somebody... he had
[J. Hartley:] That's it.
[P. Finister:] done no preparation at all
[J. Hartley:] No.
[P. Finister:] had he?
[J. Walton:] No.
[P. Finister:] He, he didn't know why he was there did he?
[J. Hartley:] He wanted five percent discount didn't he? Told him, selling a million pounds worth of flour e er flour a year and he had his twenty first coming up and apparently, [LAUGHTER] he starts spilling the beans []
[P. Finister:] Good.
[J. Hartley:] [LAUGHTER] on how much he had really [].
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[J. Hartley:] Er
[M. Brome:] He doesn't a great deal with the, the guy cos he.
[P. Finister:] So when he says no plan here, so it's not only no plans in the day it filtered through to
[M. Brome:] His work.
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[J. Hartley:] Everything.
[P. Finister:] his his, everyday work as well.
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[M. Brome:] Mm.
[L. Birbeck:] He just pu, he just kept putting off important things as well.
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[L. Birbeck:] And end, end up with
[P. Finister:] Er, yeah, I think, I think it's this stress that he felt he was under which led him to panic.
[M. Bonner:] You could just see him getting more and more het up but if he just sort of sat down and wrote things down what he'd got to do... and do, try and do them in a set order.
[P. Finister:] Mhm.
[M. Bonner:] Mm.
[J. Hartley:] Yeah. That Mr was a
[M. Bonner:] And I, I mean that was the root problem really.
[P. Finister:] That's it.
[J. Hartley:] But Mr
[M. Bonner:] Mm.
[J. Hartley:] the director had him wrapped round his little finger for that five percent.
[P. Finister:] Didn't he?
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Mm.
[speaker001:] What did he say tha then? Because, he really believes, what was that bit?
[J. Hartley:] Well he was just telling... er Mr
[speaker001:] The person was telling him or or or the?
[J. Hartley:] Th, no he was telling the customer he was selling a million pounds worth of flour a year and that and I, I've got a twenty first birthday er, you know,wi, coming up, party well after that.
[P. Finister:] Aha.
[J. Hartley:] He's not worried about that, he just
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[J. Hartley:] wants his five percent.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] That's right.... That's right. So there's no, no preparation a at all
[J. Hartley:] Oh no.
[P. Finister:] on that er particular... er interview was there?
[L. Birbeck:] He didn't... he also didn't let people know what he was doing as well.
[M. Dighton:] Didn't keep staff informed.
[P. Finister:] Did what?
[M. Dighton:] Didn't keep his staff informed of what was happening.
[L. Birbeck:] Just, just expected them to know. Didn't tell them.
[M. Bonner:] When he met those three people
[speaker001:] He didn't so so
[M. Brome:] Yeah, he didn't tell anyone about that.
[M. Bonner:] he didn't, and the guy didn't ask him.
[P. Finister:] But why didn't he tell anybody about?
[M. Dighton:] Cos he was scared, embarrassed.
[P. Finister:] He was embarrassed wasn't he?
[M. Brome:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Didn't wanna tell anybody about it cos he knew they, they they could say well... can't you organize things better than that?... What's the... real sub total now of this guy of ours? Right, so there's
[S. Whitworth:] He had no organization.
[J. Hartley:] None at all, I mean he he when he saw John Cleese on that erm computer, said what's that? He didn't know.
[P. Finister:] [LAUGHTER]
[J. Hartley:] Way behind it.
[J. Walton:] He was really sort of ignorant about things like that.
[J. Hartley:] That's right. He was way behind with the technology.
[M. Dighton:] He thought he was helping everybody and doing everything for himself but he weren't, he was stopping
[J. Walton:] He was just like a hindrance [LAUGHTER] wasn't he []?
[M. Dighton:] what are we doing?
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[M. Brome:] He was causing more problems.
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah. That's what happens.
[P. Finister:] He's trying to be all things to all men isn't he?
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Yeah. And doing... it's not so much that you're doing everything wrong, it's just the one thing which being done right... is that the...... other way of putting it... that, the guy because he's so well organized... what effect does that have on everybody else then?
[D. Inman:] It snowballs doesn't it? It throws everyone out.
[speaker001:] They're like chasing their tails cos they're the ones who
[D. Inman:] Yeah.
[M. Bonner:] They're not as stressed as he is at the end of the day because.
[D. Inman:] Well it it throws everybody else around you.
[S. Whitworth:] That's right.
[D. Inman:] They
[P. Finister:] Linda? Yes Linda?
[L. Birbeck:] Cos he keeps starting something and then he shouts something else comes back and then you but you end up doing, nothing gets done.
[S. Whitworth:] Yes. I see.
[P. Finister:] What effect did it have on his private life?
[J. Hartley:] He sa, he missed a party and missed a sa a child's party and er... what have you. He planned to go out for dinner
[M. Brome:] Well he's just so organized there.
[J. Hartley:] he planned to go out for dinner, he's even forgot about that as well. With
[speaker001:] He
[J. Hartley:] his wife.
[speaker001:] but he lives with this he doesn't... really make time for anything.
[P. Finister:] Yes. You see, it's, it's very difficult isn't it, that... that we probably spend a third of our life... at work... which makes it very important. Erm... by, as many definitions we spend a third of our lives at work,whe where you spend the other two thirds?
[speaker001:] Bed.
[P. Finister:] And... and so we've got the other two thirds... this between, getting to bed and and spending it with the, the, the family. And if you can't organize yourself at work then it's a... ten to a penny that you can't organize the other bits either. And, and so what happens is... th the whole thing just keep, it's just compounded worser, it just gets worse and worse and worse and worse. Now I'm not suggesting for one moment that anybody who has all the problems that... dear Mr has there, but I think we might be able to learn something, do you?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] We might be able to pack, put one or two things into some sort of order.... What I want to do today, what I've been trying to do today... is to spend that time looking at... certain aspects of the way the business works, the way you work. You are very important people, you are running... one million pound a year businesses.... And also for all of us to learn something about each other. Because you're spending all day together, and we'll keep breaking you off into, in twos, into your groups so that you can... learn any more about one another. And also, of course, you've got... the sort of social thing between you. Well I mean you don't have to see, so this you've got this sort of social thing there. You can actually... learn something else about one another by... normal discussions between during the course of the conversation now.... What that will enable to do, I hope, is tomorrow, to spend our time trying to put some of these things right. If, if right they need to be put. If you are already working to maximum efficiency, then great! All you will have done so far is spent the two days here, eat sandwiches, followed by, said a couple of jokes... and, come to that,.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Friday afternoon we could and we'll have a look at.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] See what Colin would make of that. Though I suspect... that what we will find if we... really are honest with ourselves that... quite a lot of things which we see here are not always exaggerated from the point of the exercise, that we exaggerate things out of all proportion so that we can actually start looking at it and seeing.... We will come back to that. In fact we'll come back that a bit later this afternoon. I want to... ask you... to do... [break in recording] thought you, content, based on that. I just wanna be absolutely sure that you haven't made some... terribly dramatic changes in your lifestyle which are not justified by what we've done.
[speaker001:] After?
[P. Finister:] Erm... no... I'd like just to go through that if I can. Erm, and then I wanna give you one last exercise... before we go. Not this sort of er, this sort of thing. Erm... and what I want you to do tonight please, in your teams... I want you to make a list... tonight, in your teams of all the things you have to do at work. Okay? Everything.
[M. Dighton:] Lunchtimes as well?
[P. Finister:] Right. It can be, yeah we had a stop for lunch, we had to have cups of tea, we had to go to ou, out the back and have a fag cos we can't smoke in the office.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Write all the things you have to do. Okay? Now, don't worry about it now when you come back to this right, you can do that in the bar if you like, that... okay? Bearing in mind it's a team focus course so I'm not giving you loads of work which takes you apart from one another, what we do is... you talk together, and spend time together.
[speaker001:] And at the end of last week they had a.
[P. Finister:] No actually it was
[M. Bonner:] No, I think that
[P. Finister:] They er
[S. Whitworth:] Er er, what?
[M. Brome:] They, they might now
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Well you know actually it's a bit boring down there now but they, they had to put my, my explanation of the price of... petrol... er down, there's nowhere to thing, cos th the last time I was down there I asked for a pint of bitter and this guy bought it me and said and I wanted two pound thirty or something. And I said to him, do you know... what they have to do a produce a gallon of petrol? And he said no, and I explained it, er, you know, first of all you created universe and then you, then you get all these very important people, geologists and they put er satellites and find th this oil underground, and then you drill, well it's usually under the sea anyway, so you produce a, and this go on and on and on until the guy's now wondering what you're talking about
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] and then when you get the to the end of it all you sa you say and they sell that for an eighth of a price that you charge for your bloody beer!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] And, you know, and, there's absolutely no justification whatsoever. And, but they, er you can't do it cos they're all so bored to death with it now.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Give a brief desista, description of where you get a pint of petrol from. Well, then they charge you thirty P for it. But it costs two pounds
[J. Walton:] If you find nobody wants it. Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Eh?
[J. Walton:] Just the fact nobody wants to do it.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[S. Whitworth:] But he wants it to go up one percent.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[S. Whitworth:] That's what I thought.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] It's like that when I do my Victor Meldrew bit it's er, doesn't go down very well. Right now look,th, right, so let's just have a look erm at mutton Jeff down there, what, what have yo, what have you decided that you, your thoughts are now, strengths weaknesses or whatever, how are you gonna change? Or can you change?
[S. Whitworth:] Er, strengths? Well, I think the first gotta be objectives.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[S. Whitworth:] Erm... using team resources... erm... and commanding respect and you do this by enthusiasm.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[S. Whitworth:] Erm... we're very good at... lot of plans, practical working, and carrying out in a specific way.
[P. Finister:] Yes.
[S. Whitworth:] And a bit of a change... and... again, with self- discipline we're realists but we won't look at same thing
[P. Finister:] Does the self-discipline actually show itself? I mean, in those, those time things that you did, those time box, did it show the self-discipline?
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] I think you've got to be.
[M. Dighton:] I thought it did show up, but I mean it wasn't part of it's a natural part of
[P. Finister:] Right, so that's great. Better for everyone. Right. Right, so I want, having all these virtues and whatever
[M. Dighton:] What d'ya call the whingies then?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[J. Hartley:] Well there has to be the odd one... that'll take over Peter.
[P. Finister:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah [].
[speaker001:] In the usual way.
[P. Finister:] Erm... analysing problems. We seem to be more concerned with the job in hand, i e, our own team er er and not with the other teams, but if they're struggling then do offer to give them help.
[S. Whitworth:] Right okay. That's very, very, gracious of you.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Well i it should be... erm,co cooperative of ourselves
[S. Whitworth:] Right.
[P. Finister:] in order to overcome any weaknesses that we may have that don't recognize
[S. Whitworth:] Well
[P. Finister:] that we've got. Right. Now based on what we've talked about so far today can you recognize any that you probably didn't think you'd got?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Or did you now recognize something you needn't of got but now somebody else has bought you that you better do something about it?
[speaker001:] Aha.
[P. Finister:] And if so, what are they? Erm, I didn't, like I say I know people who erm... especially with about ourselves or anybody else. Right. So there's no real sort of company worked out, erm... in such details like that?
[S. Whitworth:] We're, we're paid to do a job to get the best for everything.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[S. Whitworth:] And your best, to do
[P. Finister:] Aha.
[S. Whitworth:] sort of concentrating if you like, on that particular effort
[P. Finister:] Aha.
[S. Whitworth:] rather than wider things.
[P. Finister:] Yes. And so probably what we need to think about... is... how you can improve your contributions to the whole thing. That's not so you, how I perform, but how you can improve your contributions there, we might have to Yeah. er er er erm, look at that. Yeah. Erm, we also, again I mean, as you say, we always look at ourselves and say we're the best team in the company. Right. [LAUGHTER]
[M. Dighton:] Jeff's thinking that erm... but then we, we put that out and get information an d... so that's er, you know
[P. Finister:] A team game.
[M. Dighton:] team game, yeah. And get ourselves
[P. Finister:] Right.
[M. Dighton:] and then we, enable us to go on these... and get a bit of information from the.
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah. We'd like to see some signs. Give us a bit more cooperative and then
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[S. Whitworth:] the then, then
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[S. Whitworth:] erm sometimes that's, that's about it but to be honest
[M. Brome:] Well of course it does.
[S. Whitworth:] Sort of wandering round with your.
[P. Finister:] You'll have black eyes by then.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] What ab about you two?
[S. Whitworth:] How do you know he's right?
[P. Finister:] How you actually feel? Well I, well I say, we've looked at it slightly different because we've only, we've only worked together for five weeks. Right. Erm, so what we wanted to do was, we've had... we're doing quite well with the ov, erm, the five weeks we've been together but we wanna make sure that you do combat... erm... a successful pact. Right. So we looked at two areas where we've erm... we were both very weak, erm, and... I don't we could even, we couldn't even see it with regards this. Right. Erm, so we've, what we, we were looking at doing is trying to create an action plan... using those two areas each time to create strengths and... the other will slot together
[speaker001:] Cos really
[P. Finister:] in the middle
[speaker001:] the actual communication is there, but it's not constructive enough.
[P. Finister:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Or perhaps, not about the right things at the time or perhaps concentrating on.
[P. Finister:] But is that, in some ways, I mean you can't be too critical about yourselves, some of that is because you... lack of experience within the, in Ex the company in that Ex you sell.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Chances are
[P. Finister:] So I mean yo
[speaker001:] but I think that a sort of, the time we have perhaps on a could be used a lot more constructively.
[S. Whitworth:] Well... I do.
[speaker001:] You know, erm
[S. Whitworth:] Right.
[speaker001:] really
[P. Finister:] I mean we've both discussed, we both know, we've discussed things over and we've discussed a counter that, we're trying look at why all these things happen.
[speaker001:] It's really getting things done in, in a like a, I dunno, a disciplined manner, like an ordered man, so each, what to do the, we discuss what we, what we've got an action plan together and where it's fired at so it does work.
[P. Finister:] Is it based on what you, well the case history's there, I think I know the, the, other than in performance, but based on that you should be able to do that. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh absolutely, yeah. I think it's just having a bit of erm
[P. Finister:] Experience and?
[speaker001:] just having the discipline to sit down and make sure that we e, do actually work this out and then do cover all the areas.
[P. Finister:] Alright. So what I'm, what I'm sa, saying now... is this, that based on what we talked about so far
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[P. Finister:] is that tomorrow, when we start getting into planning, prioritizing, looking at where the new diaries and all that sort of stuff. There's, one of the things we will do before you leave tomorrow, is you will have to produce an action plan. Yes that's what Right. that's what we did. And it will be specific, it will be measurable, will be Yeah. achievable, be renewable, be. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yes. Mm.
[P. Finister:] Now, if that's the case... once we've done that, okay? And we'll then type it up for ya, and you'll take it away and it will be yours. Right? I'm not asking for money or taking anything from you. You could say well, Jackie took this and you got one... leg on this table shorter than the other legs and we've jammed it under there... levels the table up. Now what you'll be taking is erm
[speaker001:] It's, it's erm
[P. Finister:] . So what I'm saying is we need to be very, as soon as you get the stuff, that, if you wanna get anything out of this course at all, and what people do get out of the course, is the fact that by the time they leave here we've said right, that's the way we're going... that's what we're gonna aim for and it is reasonable time.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Yeah. Cos they were only the real areas lacking and the... I'm quite high on... the complete finisher, whereby
[P. Finister:] You know by your roads.
[speaker001:] you always go down the
[P. Finister:] Right.
[speaker001:] road.
[P. Finister:] That's okay. Alright.
[S. Whitworth:] Jus just you.
[speaker001:] Fairly true
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] of perhaps my characteristics cos I tend to go in... to work at eight o'clock just before I write any more in and I do have to clear everything before I even start the day.
[P. Finister:] Which you don't get any assistance.
[speaker001:] I can't just sort of well I think
[P. Finister:] Nor can I.
[speaker001:] I might get the odd done.
[P. Finister:] Yes, I make it the other That's fine. way round, I shove everything to one side of the desk and everyone's gone home and then I start working.
[speaker001:] So, it's perhaps an area that I could instigate there. That side of things to actually get things completed.
[P. Finister:] Okay. That's super. That's, that's true. That's brilliant. What about you two?
[S. Whitworth:] Oh right!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Yes.
[S. Whitworth:] We're both er, inquisitive, and... enthusiastic, strong, strong-willed, er... we both... top score in that... source investigator.
[P. Finister:] Right. Yeah.
[S. Whitworth:] That's what I heard, pretending.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] That's right. That's alright.
[S. Whitworth:] We're both, yeah we're both... try and demand respect, we both try and help people with weakness as much as possible. Both, self-confident. We try and mould our ideas that we both have together... what we get them from other people.
[M. Bonner:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] That's alright. I'm impressed. I do, I, I don't, I told you that th that there ain't many, many players in this world who are, who are so so, sort of, you know started what
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] they did, they nick everybody else's ideas and turn them into something else so... well
[S. Whitworth:] Well like we, so we can try and e, with regards to the teams we're probably a little bit more high profile than a lot of the other teams.
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[S. Whitworth:] At our depot, because it's just the way, just the way we are up north. A, and your reputation.
[P. Finister:] Well no, er I've been there a few times.
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah. And er so... but we have divided it by the weaknesses and things like that.
[P. Finister:] Are what?
[S. Whitworth:] Planning.
[P. Finister:] [LAUGHTER] Right []. Yes, that won't be a strength will it?
[S. Whitworth:] No.
[P. Finister:] No.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Yeah. That's what we've gotta finish tomorrow.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Right, well everybody's, we gotta finish tomorrow.
[S. Whitworth:] I know. Yeah.
[P. Finister:] God almighty!
[S. Whitworth:] Er, we're not... we're not all so self-disc, or
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[S. Whitworth:] disciplined about things.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[S. Whitworth:] It takes the way things go instead of just making, yeah, instead of just sitting down and getting on with it.
[P. Finister:] Well one of the problems you see,i if you are perceived as one of the best, you tend to be in the top three or four or so on, you know, the, the... people know who you are, but when you are perceived as being the, you know, that sort of effort you sort of find it, find it pretty difficult. And... it's only the people who become, well I mean, I was gonna say sort of gold medallists and the Olympics who are... good at that sort of thing because the best in the world, yeah. And they don't give them to everybody, what you do is,th the problem is that you see all that's wrong with the depot.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Now they... er... you know it's a bit of a bloody, bloody dowdy operation, I mean er, one of the things I try and talk to people about here
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] and er, I get on the courses is the fact that that is very good attendance sort of thing for you to see T N T Express has been rather than a depot. You never see a truck here. How many times does anybody see them? They're all gone by the time you get into work and they ain't back by time you go home. Do you ever see a truck?
[speaker001:] No.
[P. Finister:] Have you ever seen the type of thing?
[speaker001:] No.
[P. Finister:] Well, rarely. And so that this tendency you see for us to see how well our world has been, rather than the depot, and in many cases they do it
[speaker001:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] they.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] Now, what you've got to do, the one thing you really have got to do is to, is is to start being critical of yourselves and well look, am I doing anything wrong here? But rather than have you doing something else.
[S. Whitworth:] Mm mm. Mm. And also we, we, we need to look at strict plans as I say, because we're not... particularly good, good at that.
[P. Finister:] Yeah. So you'll go away and find that out?
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Yeah, well you better go and ask Stuart.
[M. Bonner:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] And if you just think, oh well.
[D. Inman:] You're talking to me, you're talking to the first one round. following a plan, and a system many, many times.
[P. Finister:] Alright, what about Jane cos she's looking at us?
[speaker001:] I'm a
[P. Finister:] Well er, er yeah, but it's
[S. Whitworth:] But er, which is worse.
[P. Finister:] that's right,.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] The one thing we are gonna do is, is aim to do is concentrate on, on obviously not now.
[S. Whitworth:] Erm, it's, if is a bit awkward bu, you know, our, well our terms because you know how calls so Jenny gets to have them, she gets an awful lot.
[P. Finister:] Alright, well th th that's... that's okay.
[L. Birbeck:] Oh yeah. Lynn does.
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Yeah. What about Jack the lad?
[S. Whitworth:] Mm mm.
[J. Hartley:] Er, there's, there's, there's gotta be a distraction between what you're, many of the figures made there
[P. Finister:] No, that's right.
[J. Hartley:] erm, of the three of us. Er... on the, the S E H, which is the erm, the organizer
[P. Finister:] The short one. Right.
[J. Hartley:] We, we all came out fairly high on that one.
[P. Finister:] And do you think that, that fits? Does that gel with what you see
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] in your company?
[J. Hartley:] Yeah. Erm
[P. Finister:] Where you work.
[J. Hartley:] I think we, we, we fairly, we're fairly organized... as a team now. And, as I say, we've been together for a long time and... the appointment, the changeover of the appointments
[P. Finister:] Can I stop you?
[J. Hartley:] Yes.
[P. Finister:] Was the help, helping you pick up body language there? They both moved back
[speaker001:] Mm mm.
[P. Finister:] together and they both move up. One knee was right over left
[J. Walton:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] and the other was left over right.
[L. Birbeck:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yeah I noticed that.
[L. Birbeck:] Erm, I stopped doing [LAUGHTER] that but [] [LAUGHTER] she []
[S. Whitworth:] That was Peter.
[J. Hartley:] Peter. You got about seven hours tonight I'll tell you about it.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] We slept through that one last time.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[J. Walton:] Oh very funny.
[L. Birbeck:] Who gave you a?
[P. Finister:] Right go on, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have stopped you. Go on.
[J. Hartley:] I've slept with worse than that before Pete.
[S. Whitworth:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[L. Birbeck:] Ooh!
[J. Hartley:] Everything's hunky-dory and I never hope I ever knock this, I don't know whether Susan wants to hear this but since we started doing
[speaker001:] [clears throat]
[J. Hartley:] the appointment side it really
[speaker001:] [clears throat]
[J. Hartley:] in our depot, it's really working. And erm
[P. Finister:] I presume so.
[J. Hartley:] we've got a very, very
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah.
[J. Hartley:] good rapport with each, you know, we can sort o, I mean the girls can sort of say what they want to me, I say what I want to them, you know, we take a joke.
[P. Finister:] Oh that's nice.
[J. Hartley:] We got a lot of er we got very good rapport going which is a big thing. I don't think the other team in the depot have got such a, I shouldn't speak out of school but we have
[P. Finister:] Ah that's okay.
[J. Hartley:] got such a good rapport with the outdoor sales than I've got with er, Jane and Linda.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[J. Hartley:] Which I think goes a long way.
[P. Finister:] Yeah. So what would, what would be the weakness of the team then?
[J. Hartley:] Er, well we wrote ta erm, a couple of weaknesses down here.
[J. Walton:] [LAUGHTER]
[J. Hartley:] Erm, the weakness of the team was erm
[M. Dighton:] You're not allowed to say those.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[J. Hartley:] Yeah, we need to brush up on, on er
[S. Whitworth:] And I'll have these.
[J. Hartley:] making changes beyond ourselves. Erm
[P. Finister:] Ooh God!
[J. Hartley:] any
[P. Finister:] Ha!
[L. Birbeck:] Well based on what
[J. Hartley:] That one's
[L. Birbeck:] we need to brush
[J. Hartley:] change that one
[L. Birbeck:] up on erm
[J. Hartley:] Yes, we need to brush up on, on analysing our problems before they get worse and getting them back into shape using our organized, organizing skills and teamwork.
[P. Finister:] Right. And has
[J. Hartley:] Plus
[P. Finister:] that... go on.
[J. Hartley:] plus erm, we, we sort of erm... we need to get together more in the night and be brief, we'd be briefing
[P. Finister:] I was just gonna say, what you need, probably, is to
[J. Hartley:] We
[P. Finister:] er i is to... not meet for meeting's sake.
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] And one of the things we need to talk about tomorrow is how we put together a briefing
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] I think, and, or a de-brief, what the hell do we do with this thing. Erm, and that I would have thought would probably do it, or certainly helpful as long as you actually do it, sort of thing. One of the problems
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] with de-briefings is that what people do is sit down and say what shall we talk about now?
[J. Hartley:] That's right. Or what, on the night we have a chat with that area being on on that day
[P. Finister:] Right.
[J. Hartley:] individually, but we don't get together enough as a team.
[J. Walton:] No.
[P. Finister:] Oh.
[J. Hartley:] Just sit down
[J. Walton:] The three of us.
[J. Hartley:] for half an hour
[J. Walton:] The three of us.
[P. Finister:] That's what it takes. That's what it takes.
[L. Birbeck:] Yeah.
[J. Walton:] I agree.
[L. Birbeck:] It's just me or Jack
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[L. Birbeck:] her or Jack.
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[L. Birbeck:] Well it should be the three of us more.
[P. Finister:] Yes.
[J. Walton:] Just that... since we've come back after Christmas we haven't... never have the time before er
[J. Hartley:] Oh well let's well
[J. Walton:] to get together, all together, it's... we just haven't
[P. Finister:] I'm sure, ah but with respect I'm sure you have had the time, what you don't do is make the time because
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[L. Birbeck:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] you've got too many other things
[L. Birbeck:] That's right.
[P. Finister:] to do.
[L. Birbeck:] Exactly, exactly right.
[J. Walton:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] And it's, er... it is one of the problems.
[J. Walton:] That goes to the bottom of
[J. Hartley:] Yes.
[J. Walton:] the pile.
[P. Finister:] That's right. One of the problems you see is that
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] that people tend to see... a meeting as having to be... really, oh it's gotta be at ten to five, it's gotta
[L. Birbeck:] You gotta say.
[P. Finister:] be on a Friday
[J. Hartley:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] or whatever it may be. And,i, no the only reason for having Friday meetings is because it's Friday.
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] There ain't any, no reason for it.
[J. Hartley:] We a, but we are on a regular day er
[P. Finister:] Just stopped them.
[J. Walton:] Sales
[J. Hartley:] depot sales meetings so, on a regular basis now... erm, including Jeff who's the general manager. All teams will go through a meeting about six, every eight weeks. We've put a lot of erm
[S. Whitworth:] Yeah, I think that's what that, that's
[J. Hartley:] managers,wo, a lot of ma the managers, a lot of the customers now you know, can come depot
[P. Finister:] it was said that er
[J. Hartley:] you know, and it's being done and everything wants starting, and so on and so on.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[J. Hartley:] So er, we're on, now on our last
[S. Whitworth:] You can't
[J. Hartley:] erm... comes out each week brought up each week at erm... depot meetings.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[J. Walton:] There's a lot of competition at the moment in between our territory team and the other territory team
[P. Finister:] That's good.
[J. Walton:] where
[P. Finister:] Right.
[J. Walton:] erm, but that's what we've had the meetings in really about is we've, we've listed our major consa, customers and then... listed their's, and the two gets... first one and the most revenue started, that's what we're having at the moment. Having a little competition in between us both, you know.
[L. Birbeck:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Well the great thing that you've
[J. Walton:] And it's
[P. Finister:] got going for you now of course, is you have a very, or a fairly good idea of what you're strong at... and what you are weak at, or what you, one part of the weaknesses is planning things, and analysing things.
[J. Hartley:] That's right.
[P. Finister:] Erm... and so what we need to think about tomorrow, we're organizing this plan, or whatever, is... how, how do we implement that. Er, and I think what you need to do, what we all need to do is when we've discussed all this stuff, talked about it, and I'm sure you'll talk about it again tonight, that what we need to do is to recognize that this has to start on Monday.
[L. Birbeck:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] Not Monday week.
[L. Birbeck:] Mhm.
[J. Walton:] Think that
[P. Finister:] Not Tuesday afternoon.
[J. Walton:] I think that our problem is like, that we don't sort of like... get together and... me, and I know what I; m doing with Jack, and Linda knows what she's doing with Jack, but... me and Linda don't know what each other are doing.
[P. Finister:] That's right. And I think
[L. Birbeck:] Mm.
[P. Finister:] that is, I think that's clear, I think that's... er you're absolutely right.
[L. Birbeck:] Mhm. But it comes up and I'll say, oh did I not say that?
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[L. Birbeck:] Did you? Aha.
[P. Finister:] Didn't I tell you that?
[J. Walton:] Aha.
[L. Birbeck:] Didn't I tell you that? And I just
[P. Finister:] And it is
[L. Birbeck:] presumed, you know.
[P. Finister:] Is it going down did you say?
[J. Walton:] Yeah.
[P. Finister:] Erm
[J. Walton:] You presume that each other knows when really
[P. Finister:] That's right.
[J. Walton:] you don't.
[P. Finister:] Oh tell me about it. Yeah. Right. I never worked with anybody like that but I know who you mean.
[J. Walton:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Come on then! Oh. There are some places where we keep the best till last.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]
[J. Walton:] Thanks.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] Serves me right for I suppose.
[speaker001:] Yes. That's right.
[P. Finister:] So what, what, what are now? What are we... what are we now?
[M. Brome:] Erm... they would ideally like to
[P. Finister:] Right.
[M. Brome:] I haven't said something by the way.
[P. Finister:] Oh yes.
[S. Whitworth:] [LAUGHTER]
[M. Brome:] Yeah. Mary's quite good coming up with new ideas and... new lines of thought... on various subjects
[P. Finister:] Right. Okay.
[M. Brome:] and I'm, supposedly the one that will... carry it through. I er
[P. Finister:] And do you think that's right?
[M. Brome:] Yeah. Yeah I think so. And she's also good at... support, supporting the team.
[P. Finister:] Right.
[M. Brome:] Ah erm... and her loyalty to the company, so... she's always saying
[P. Finister:] I think you've all got that, it's just that er I don't think that
[M. Brome:] yes, yeah, oh yeah.
[P. Finister:] Okay, right.
[M. Brome:] Ah ah, and and also a good problem solver as well. That Mary will come across with something that you use on
[M. Bonner:] Mm mm.
[M. Brome:] various ideas. The weakness that we've identified is that... because we're new... we haven't learnt the game. We've gotta learn the game.
[M. Bonner:] Yeah.
[M. Brome:] From the
[P. Finister:] Yeah.
[M. Brome:] type of
[M. Bonner:] [clears throat]
[M. Brome:] area to
[P. Finister:] I wish I could live
[M. Brome:] as much
[P. Finister:] in a world where none of you learnt the bloody
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] then we can actually get on with it. But erm... yes, I, I think there's the, the, there's a weakness and a strength there you see. And a, one of the reasons why Mary keeps coming out with good ideas is she don't know the game.
[M. Brome:] Mm mm.
[P. Finister:] And, one of the days she'll learn the game, I mean that in the nicest sense, the,th th, the game, and when she learns the game she'll stop coming out with ideas then.
[M. Bonner:] Mm. We'll be.
[P. Finister:] A, and, and I think we all do that. The erm... but most of us are... when yo, when you first join something... you can always see the things that you ought to be able to change. And one of the things that is happening and mortified when I first came to this company was I couldn't see a straight line through. I couldn't see who reported to who. I can't, I still don't bloody know now! But I mean I
[S. Whitworth:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] I I just couldn't, I just thought, suddenly I thought my God, you know I can change this. So
[M. Brome:] It's not so much changing T N T, it was changing some influences that's effecting Mary. She's doing, spending as much time doing tea and she sees, as she is phoning prospects.
[P. Finister:] Yes. I think that shows in time.
[M. Brome:] Yeah. That's what, I think one of the other ones is, whilst we
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] No it's alright to laugh, I go round picking up.
[M. Brome:] That's right. Once again we
[M. Bonner:] Yeah I know.
[M. Brome:] de-brief every now and then, it's... it's not being a full de-brief. I'll tell Alison the accountant then, and she'll tell me what she's... sold and... how many contracts we've booked and... but it's done in front of everybody else while everybody, why everybody else who's on the phone. And we don't talk about problems, who's done what, how, what problems you're having.
[M. Bonner:] Mm mm.
[M. Brome:] And they haven't done anything in a, in a support group... in that sense.
[M. Bonner:] But like just for you to know that, I mean, at the moment, got a slight shortage of staff and, us little Express girlies are like, we're all sort of desperate to please them well, and because we need to, if a customer rings we're always there for them... and the problem is, I've got like two phones on my desk at the moment, so, I could guarantee the minute I put my phone down, if anybody else is on the phone... ha, [LAUGHTER] bloody phone's still ringing [], I have got to answer it. There is times I've casually picked it up, dropped it on the floor and forgotten to pick it up for a while because I'm on the phone and sometimes it is quite loud in my ear. But like, looking at this is what did it, filling
[S. Whitworth:] Well
[M. Bonner:] in this. Actually sitting there and saying, not realizing, a few problems that
[S. Whitworth:] Too busy to realize
[M. Bonner:] I'm writing. So I've looked at it at the end of day and thought well... my God! And he's looked at it and just said... well look at it. Don't spend
[P. Finister:] But you see the
[M. Bonner:] as much on the phone.
[P. Finister:] th,th again, again you see the strength of this course is that if nobody had actually given you time like, you'd have never known.
[M. Bonner:] No. This is it. You just get on with what you're doing.
[P. Finister:] We had a secretary here a fortnight ago and said how good it'd been.
[M. Bonner:] So manic.
[P. Finister:] It was.
[M. Bonner:] Oh!
[P. Finister:] You wouldn't know, you see.
[M. Bonner:] No.
[P. Finister:] And and, the, the, the strength of this particular course amazed with herself she just sort of sat about once a day chatting.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[M. Bonner:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] But, the strength of this particular is that we now know an awful lot of about one another.
[M. Bonner:] Mm. But we get... [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] We're getting there faster than we think. We're getting there faster than we think.... Good. Thank you for that. Right. I'm now gonna give you one last exercise then... which... may take rather more time than we've got. And if it doesn't, probably won't, we'll be kicking away from here about quarter five. If it does, then okay... finish it off tonight. Or, do it before then. I want to give you... I'm going to give each of you, yeah if you just wanna just clear up some of the bits of paper then that's alright.
[M. Bonner:] Yeah.
[M. Brome:] Cos you can't get, an old bloke told me that.
[P. Finister:] Okay, one for you... and one for you.... One for you. One for you. And one for you. Right, what I want you to do, and we've used the same two teams as we, we've used last time. Right? So it's from Jenny that way, and from Matt that way. Okay? [clears throat]
[M. Bonner:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] All I want you to do... I'll just read through this. You've just been told that you are to take over the job of manager for O A Z Company Limited. The previous
[speaker001:] [cough]
[P. Finister:] job holder has resigned and left the country. They always do.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[P. Finister:] And they th, they not only leave the country, they're up in space, you can't get hold of them, in fact, he's not at work. And the only key members of the department are away on leave, okay? It will be the same. And you can't get hold of any of them. Okay? So who's down to? You. You know very little about the job. Right? But understand that your new boss is the production director. Right? Mr. You've got two chief managers, Mr and Mr. And a secretary, Elma, who'll report straight into you.
[M. Bonner:] [LAUGHTER] Ooh ooh!
[P. Finister:] You've got forty minutes, that's about what you've got, it's just about thirty minutes, okay? To clear the items found on your predecess