[speaker001:] I've got a prop tonight... this is it! It tells me on the packet that stopping smoking reduces the risk of serious diseases. Actually, I've got another one here with a different motto, this one says er, smoking can cause fatal diseases. Well! I mean, I've seen lots of people doing this and er... they're not dead yet, so, here goes! Actually, hang on! I haven't, I haven't asked the people here whether I'm allowed to do this? Erm, may I smoke? Well let's put it to the vote? Button one for yes, button two for no. [introduction music]
[speaker002:] Well, this er hundred women... are divided, but the majority, sixty two say no I may not smoke. So I'm not going to. I wonder why erm... I wonder why you said no, those sixty two of you? Why did you say I may not? Yes?
[speaker003:] Three years ago the Independent Scientific Committee for Smoking and Health declared that there was a ten to fifty percent increase in the risk of lung cancer and respiratory diseases for non-smokers who became passive smokers. And therefore, I would rather you didn't smoke.
[speaker002:] Because I might affect you?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Up there.
[speaker004:] I find it unpleasant and it gives me an allergy so... I'd rather you didn't from my point of view.
[speaker002:] Even at this distance.
[speaker004:] Yes I I
[speaker002:] Yeah, so so you're thinking of yourself?
[speaker004:] A
[speaker002:] No one 's thinking about me yet! But never mind!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Up there.
[speaker005:] Do you actually smoke yourself?
[speaker002:] Do I actually smoke myself?
[speaker005:] Aha.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Listen... I I ask the questions here okay!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Who el, who else said no I may not?
[speaker006:] You you you
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker006:] you have the right smoke yourself and pollute the envir environment but not mine, I'd rather you didn't!
[speaker002:] Aha. Yes?
[speaker007:] I wear contact lenses and it annoys... my eyes.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker008:] I just feel you can smoke in the privacy of your own... room, car, whatever.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker009:] I feel you can't smoke because you're gonna blow up beds in my hospital ward.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Mm mm. Right! Anyone else? Yes?
[speaker010:] My doctor says I've to avoid smoky environments
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker010:] it's affected my throat.
[speaker002:] Can I ask the thirty eight who said yes I may, why why you said that? Why you voted that yes I may?
[speaker001:] Well I smoke myself so I believe that I've no right to tell anyone else not to smoke.
[speaker002:] Okay. Who else? Well I was... I'm Yes? the Scottish representative of FOREST, which is a freedom organization for the right to enjoy smoking tobacco. Mhm. And while I can understand certain people saying... that yes, smoking irritates my eyes, my nose, and yes, they're quite right they are entitled to breathe erm... u u unsolid air, if yo if you want to put it that Mhm. way, but we do believe that there should be... accommodation in most places, for most, that we should have designated areas Mhm. for smokers and non-smokers wherever possible. Mhm. Let me just check who, what the the the representation of this audience. No close-up vote, so you can vote er, you can tell the truth here. Are you or were you a smoker? Button one for yes, and button two for no. And amongst this hundred, forty nine say yes, fifty one have never touched the evil or the enjoyable weed depending on your viewpoint. Do you smoke now? Button one for yes, button two for no. And... twenty six, that's just over a quarter of this hundred smoke now.
[speaker003:] In Scotland, er, in nineteen eighty eight the official government statistics that thirty seven percent of adult women smoked. About thirty percent of fifteen year old girls smoke, which is a very depressing statistic! Erm, the numbers are coming down, but they're coming, er but in fact we have among, among the highest smoking rates among women in the world... er, with consequent effects on people's health.
[speaker002:] Ye, you're concerned, you're worried. You better say where yo, who you're from, Alison.
[speaker003:] Er, I'm the Scottish Director of ASH. Which is
[speaker002:] Which is?
[speaker003:] Action on Smoking and Health.
[speaker002:] Right! Yes?
[speaker004:] I think I smoke purely out of now, more than anything else. I've smoked for over fifteen years, and it has become, it's something to do with my hands... and I think that's what it is with me.
[speaker002:] Have you ever tried to stop
[speaker004:] I have stopped... erm, I stopped once for well over a year... and er, I went back to smoking shortly after the death of my mother, who incidentally, died of a smoking related disease.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] But that didn't stop me going back to it.
[speaker005:] , I've been smoking since I wa twe, since I've been twelve... and I just canna stop... and I think it's disgusting! And it's all I've got. I just have a cigarette for, to keep you calm.
[speaker002:] Have you tried any other... erm
[speaker005:] I've tried that... chewing gum you get... but it still didn't stop me.
[speaker002:] Behind you.
[speaker006:] If I don't smoke, I eat. [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER] That's why I smoke, I think []! My weight is bu, erm heavy enough!
[speaker002:] So you've tried, not smoking and
[speaker006:] I did stop smoking for three months and then... with everyone else around us, I mean I was putting on weight and then I went back to smoking. But I enjoy smoking.
[speaker007:] I found the opposite! I smoked for twenty seven years, and... erm... I'm getting on to a year now since I stopped smoking... and I feel a lot calmer, I hated being a victim to cigarettes! Erm
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] but I never felt confident enough to
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] to give up and I thought... I don't want to fail... on my own so I won't even attempt... and then I erm... I joined this project, and that was enough, I think, to keep me off.
[speaker002:] Mary, you you actually run that project, where do you find your people from?
[speaker009:] We advertised, in fact, for people who wanted to smoking... but could do with a little help, because I really do think that women do need a little help, a bit of support... to do this. We had over, over a hundred women in fact, we had a fifty percent success rate, thirty nine, well almost thirty nine of these women stopped smoking... and... most of them, almost all, showed a tremendous improvement in fitness, in well being, and quite a few, I won't say everyone, felt that i, they were much more relaxed
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] as smokers but... coming on to th the real point of the experiment wasn't to look at fitness, and wasn't just to set up a stop smoking project, but what I wanted to look at was... whether people gain weight or not. So we didn't tell them that that was what they were doing, I'm sorry!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] And in fact... a third of our eighty... people who were successful... sorry! A third of the people who were successful in stopping, didn't gain weight... or gained less than a couple of pounds.
[speaker002:] Does that mean two thirds of the people who were successful
[speaker009:] Two thirds did... yes.
[speaker002:] Did put on weight?
[speaker009:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Now one has to ask, does putting on weight matter? I mean... what do you think? Yes?
[speaker010:] Well erm... I actually stopped smoking about er, two years ago... and was quite surprised at the amount of weight I put on in about five months, which was two stone, which... I didn't think I'd deserved!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker010:] Er, I could taste... better, but I didn't think I deserved erm... er, two stone. Anyway, er I fell pregnant into the bargain, at the e end of the pregnancy weighed fourteen stone and purposely started smoking again
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] to get the weight off! In
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] six months was down to... the two three pounds... under... the weight I was when I started. But that took about two years by the time, I purposely started smoking to... keep it down.
[speaker002:] Amanda?
[speaker001:] Yes. Erm, I think on that, that that... we must remember that cigarettes are a drug
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] erm, and there are two aspects, that they can a stimulant... and whilst I'm, I would agree that many women, it is part of... dealing with problems in their lives, coping with stress, that part of that is also... withdrawal symptoms from the nicotine, and
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] we know, from research even amongst very young girls who only smoke a few cigarettes a week, that when they try to give up they get withdrawal symptoms, and... so having a cigarette erm... helps them Mm. cope with that. Can I just point out, also, on the weight thing
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] you said is it, is it er... a concern?
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] It's a concern for the tobacco industry, because right from the days they started targeting women, earlier on in the century, the slogan was... reach for a Lucky... erm ma, not for a sweet. And, we've seen through their advertising in targeting women that they've tried to post the image... if you smoke, you're more likely to be slim and slender.
[speaker002:] Anne? Yes, but beating, I smoke sixty cigarettes a day and I wouldn't care... just now, if I went up to twenty stone! If I could stop smoking, I would stop! Have you tried going to one of these groups or clinics, or I've had, I to myself, yes... and it did nothing. Nothing at all. Will you try again? I could try again, yes. Well, would you like to? For health reasons, yes I'd Yeah. to. Sue?
[speaker003:] I think part of the thing about stress isn't so much whether it's a chemical effect, but it's a... having a cigarette is a way of creating a wee break if you're... if you're busy... and as a, that can be really difficult for women to do, actually demand a bit of time for themselves.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] You know, even if it's just five minutes, but it can actually, you know, you sit down, you have a... you have a cigarette... and that's a way of making a break that you
[speaker002:] So yo
[speaker003:] that you wouldn't be able do otherwise.
[speaker002:] So you're using it as an excuse?
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Joan?
[speaker004:] On the lighter side actually, my husband, and my sister-in- law and brother-in-law used to smoke, and I got very... cute to this, because I sa, noticed that they stopped working every time they had cigarette
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] but I didn't get the break!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] So I said, okay, I'm having a cigarette break now. And er... this was... this is fairly true! You
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker004:] do... stop, well you wind down.
[speaker005:] I find that when women start smoking it's normally in bike sheds, behind the back of the school, it's a communal thing. It's
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] just to be one of the crowd, one of the in-crowd, and once you've started it's very, very hard to stop.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] I used to smoke at school, but I don't smoke now, I've not smoked since I left school!
[speaker002:] But you felt it was addictive?
[speaker005:] Oh very much so! Aha
[speaker002:] And how did you break the addiction?
[speaker005:] I threw them in the river! That was it! No more!
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker006:] I work in a school and I know that the, the pupils, they do smoke, they start to smoke, you know, like in first, second year
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] and er, they think it's a, a cool thing! You can tell the kids who... don't smoke from the kids who do smoke, they do have an attitude at that age and it
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] at the beginning, I don't think they like it they just smoke, and then obviously it becomes... it's a drug... and then, you know they can't get off it obviously... and le
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] it's no longer a cool thing, it's... a problem.
[speaker002:] Mm. But there still is amo, amongst kids, some kids... it's it's smart to smoke... whether
[speaker006:] Oh yes!
[speaker002:] you're defying authority or behaving like a grown up or
[speaker006:] Oh yeah! And they talk about! You know, they like to tell you that they smoke. They like to... they like to let know that they smoke
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] cos as you say, just defying.
[speaker002:] Yep. Sarah?
[speaker007:] Yeah, erm... I er, I'd given up erm about se seven weeks ago, and... I was told that it was an anti-depressant and when I came off the cigarettes it was just... terrible! You know, all these emotions and anger and... various other things.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] You know, it's
[speaker002:] But you're sta, but you're staying off?
[speaker007:] Well [LAUGHTER] hopefully! Well hopefully [LAUGHTER]!
[speaker002:] Yep. Yeah. Mary?
[speaker009:] If I go, If I could just... to, to bring go, right back to a point you made much earlier... coming off is exactly as you've described it for most people
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] what I most often heard when I phoned people a couple of days in was that it's been the worst two days of my life!
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] Mm.
[speaker009:] Now, a lot of people got to the one month... happily, the thirty nine, but only... fifteen out of these thirty nine made it to six months. Now, I think staying stopped is much more, not much more difficult... but just doesn't receive the attention that it deserves
[speaker007:] Mm.
[speaker009:] and I don't, I think a lot of that is... weight... continuing to
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] go on, like the
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker009:] lady... because
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker009:] the the original, the first weight gain, the first week ten days is bad enough... you only gain two or three pounds but it's all going round your tummy
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker009:] your waist, your waist disappears, your jeans don't fit, your skirts don't fit.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] After that
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] you know, the fat just keeps on going! It's
[speaker002:] Right!
[speaker009:] very... distressing!
[speaker002:] Moira?
[speaker008:] I used to smoke, but I just stopped smoking altogether
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker008:] and that was about seven years ago, and I won't smoke again.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker008:] I found it, when I stopped smoking my clothes a... smelt!
[speaker002:] Yep. Yep.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker008:] There was a terrible... and I
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker008:] think there's a stigma attached to smoking now. It's an anti-social habit.
[speaker002:] Right. Lindy?
[speaker009:] I think it would be helpful for people who smoke erm, to to think about just how very powerful a drug it is, because I know there have been studies done which show that it's actually more difficult to stay off cigarettes than it is to stay off heroine. There ar, more people lapse... to cigarettes.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] Erm, and... i i, I think people quite often feel very bad when they try to stop smoking, I I ha, used to smoke about forty a day and I've now succeeded in stopped for about four years, but I know that I did have several failures and whe when when you try to stop and and fail you feel extremely bad and low and depressed about yourself, and people probably need quite a lot of support.
[speaker002:] Okay. Well, there's a number of things there I'd like to follow up. Can I first of all nail this health thing because er, near the start Anne said that th th, the court is still our, opinion is still divided on just how bad for you, for instance, passive smoking is. Erm, would anyone like to, to give er, the final word on... er, what the present view on on er, the dangers of smoking and the effect of smoking on your health? Yes?
[speaker010:] I don't think that there is any doubt... that we have known for more than thirty years that smoking is associated with... er ma er, fatal diseases and er... not just fatal disease but, diseases but very debilitating diseases.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] The interesting thing is that... it doesn't seem to influence our particular... habit-forming er, take-up rates, and it doesn't influence it because there is this lag period... between starting smoking... and developing lung cancer... or developing heart disease... or developing verofa ves vascular disease.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] And it is very difficult to influence children... e, who are starting at the age of ten to fifteen... with threats of lung cancer at the age group between fifty and sixty... regardless of the horrors that you can describe to them. I mean, lung cancer is not a curable disease.
[speaker002:] You work with, you're a consultant working
[speaker010:] Yes.
[speaker002:] with people who have
[speaker010:] Yes.
[speaker002:] lung cancer?
[speaker010:] And I think that even patients with lung cancer... find it impossible to smo, stop smoking That is, perhaps, not so important, but what is much more important is that their families find it impossible to stop smoking! And that is something that... to me, is very difficult to understand.
[speaker002:] Now I, that sounds like a cancel of despair, at least coming from,fo, from your view point, if there's nothing to be said to dissuade people, and I'm sure you could if you wanted to give us horror stories, and scare stories
[speaker010:] Mm.
[speaker002:] but you say that's not effective?
[speaker010:] No.
[speaker001:] It's not.
[speaker010:] I think what we have to do, and and there are people here that will probably know much more about that tha than I do... is pro pro produce strategies which are much more socially and peer pressure group and acceptable to prevent youngsters from smo, from starting. We have heard, for half of this programme how
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker010:] difficult it is to stop... and how... people are feeling vulnerable about trying to stop... we've got to su su,sto sa sa stop them starting.
[speaker002:] Well we've also heard the the the, the paradox that, as Moira said, there's a growing stigma now attached to people who do smoke
[speaker008:] Mm.
[speaker002:] but that it's still cool for kids to start smoking. Now, now... ah, how do you... how you um, er, how do you balance those tho those two different things? Alison?
[speaker003:] I think that... it's very important for people who smoke not to blame themselves, it is not their fault... they smoke. As we've heard from people in this programme tonight, most of them start when they're... children or young adolescents
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] they have no idea what they're letting themselves in for. And I think that if people who are still smoking, and I think nearly every smoker is unhappy... with their habit, if they will remember that and think that they can actually do something for the next generation, it's not their fault, there are people out there, there are forces out there who are... forced them to start smoking and who are trying to get the generation to start. I think actually, we need a social, social revolution. It's beginning to happen.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] I think we can protect our children much better than we do, for one thing there is a law that says it's illegal to sell tobacco to children under sixteen, that law is flouted every day in a large proportion of the, er the shops in this city and in Scotland. Er, we by our own views and our own concern could stop that almost over night, there's a lot we can do! We can persuade our government to ban advertising and all forms of tobacco er, promotion. We can actually raise a generation of kids who don't smoke. We know, even those of us who are still smoking know what the, what the problems are, let's get on and do something about it!
[speaker002:] Anne? I think first of all, I think we've go, what we've got to get clear that smoking is an adult pursuit Mhm. it is not a pursuit for children... drinking is not a pursuit for Mhm. children, and neither is sex. So, first of all... let me say, it's a matter of choice. Mhm. An adult nowadays cannot really say, or even someone in school, in secondary school cannot say that they do not know the dangers of cigarettes. FOREST has never said... smoking is good for you. What we're saying it is your choice, knowing the dangers... to smoke or not to smoke. I believe the young, young lady over in the other side, really told the truth, more of the truth than perhaps anyone else... she said she liked it. Now, I know many pe, persons who have liked smoking but who have to, for some reason or other, maybe raised blood pressure, to give up... and they have managed to do it... and quite easily, because they have desperately wanted to. But you must want to! Mm. It's like eating chocolates, or any of the things you like doing. Okay. Can I ask you A Anne, what your view on advertising is? You say adults should be free to choose to smoke, now do you think the advertisement of tobacco should be permitted? It is at the moment in certain situations Yes, I certainly do! There is absolutely no evidence to suggest... that by taking away advertising you will, you will er, cut down smoking. Absolutely none at all! There is an assertion. I wonder what you think? Let me put that to the vote. Should all adverts for tobacco be banned? Button one for yes, button two for no. They're restricted, as you know, at the moment. And amongst this hundred... er, thirty six say no, possibly for the reasons you said. Sixty four, the majority in this hundred say... yes!
[speaker001:] There are places that have introduced a ban on advertising. Norway is a particularly interesting example where they saw a rocketing... rate of smoking amongst... adolescents... they introduced a smoking ban, er an an advertising ban, and in fact, it's reversed and they, they're youngsters are not smoking at the same rate as... as they were.
[speaker002:] It's really with regard to the advertising of tobacco Yep. products and I think we all agree that we do have a responsibility... to protect children. And what we do from research is that children who smoke are more likely to smoke the brands that are heavily advertised Mm. and we also know that advertising reinforces smoking, it makes, makes people think that smoking is okay. So I think these are two very, very valid reasons why we ought to ban... all forms of tobacco advertising. Mhm. Yes?
[speaker003:] Erm... there's another point that erm... about choice, erm... the speaker over there said that... we were adults, we were free to choose
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] to smoke... when it comes to to... stopping smoking... there is an element there where people don't have the choice to stop smoking, it's portrayed as something you do if you have the willpower. A a, to make it easy to stop smoking you need to have... freedom from stress, you need to have leisure, you need to have... circumstances
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] which make it easier for you to stop... and a lot of people don't have the choice to stop, if you look at it in that sense.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker004:] I think another erm... aspect about smoking is, I'm not a smoker, but I often wonder if... er, smokers feel used... by the amount of taxation on cigarettes? Er, you know, they're actually paying money to the government every time they buy and every budget day the cigarettes go up. Er,th they must feel that erm... you know, it's getting dearer and dearer and is it, is it all worth it?
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] Is it worth four hours of oxygen therapy for somebody with a cons er, an airways disease? You put these people on oxygen therapy for days and days and days, they come off and say... can I have a cigarette? No, I'm sorry. It's worth every penny to put the tax on cigarettes.
[speaker006:] Another thing about smoking, although nobody's denying it's bad for you, is the fact is that, it's overwhelming the core of women who smoke, who also have worst diets, they also tend to have worse stress, it's used as a very convenient scapegoat.
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker006:] Or or catch all scapegoat when there are these other factors involved which are contributing to... to health problems
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] because it's a lot easier for a government to say... if you stop smoking it'll be alright, than to deal with things like poverty.
[speaker002:] Mhm. Th... erm, the the other one that came up was erm, er and even Anne agreed that er, smoking if you must smoke is is for adults, not for children, now how do you erm, we've we've touched on advertising, is there anything else that might be done to dissuade children from smoking? Anne has said that, that giving them th th the grizzliest facts doesn't really impress them. Kathleen?
[speaker007:] I think there are various strategies that you can adopt with children, I think the first and most obvious is work through the educational system, through schools and there's been many excellent school's programmes developed! Another method which is becoming very popular is to complement the school work by having smoke-busters clubs for children. The, really, Scotland is leading the way! There's actually some very good news on this front... and there's now five or six clubs throughout Scotland, and the aim to encourage children, obviously, to remain non- smokers
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] and we do that by communicating directly with them... erm, in their homes, and it's proving a very, very popular strategy.
[speaker002:] You know, the beginning when I said... may I smoke? And sixty two of you said no, I mean, are any of you er, do do any of you impose the stigma of being a smoker on other people? Do any of you say to your friends, don't smoke? Do you say, no you can't smoke in my house? Do yo, Susie?
[speaker008:] Both my parents smoke, and my sister smokes and I... can't any longer be in the same room as them! I,i it used to be something I put up with when I was younger, now, if my parents come to visit I ask them to smoke in the corridor, go out of the door, open a window, something, because I found it affects me so badly! And I would like to find some way of saying to people who do smoke, for instance, even on the top of buses where it's now banned, you know, please don't! But they take it so, so strongly, they become so aggressive that it's, it's almost more trouble than it's worth to to mention it to people.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] I'm er... ve very strongly against smoking and if someone comes to my house and asks if they can smoke, I do say no, and I ask them if they wish to smoke if they would go outside. But, I take it a little step further because if I do go somewhere like a bus and people are smoking then I'll actually approach and ask them to put it out. I've done that on trains, I've done that on a tour bus quite recently, and of course the response you get can be very, very aggressive and that's sometimes quite hard to handle... but I take the precaution of always checking before I go somewhere that I'm going to, I'm going to be backed up, for example, erm before I go I... purchase my holiday, I actually checked with the tour company that they didn't allow smoking on the buses
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker009:] so if I feel I'm in the right and I fe I feel I can impose that upon them.
[speaker002:] Do you think the day will ever come when we don't smoke? I mean, I know that's what Glasgow two thousand,we, various people here are er, are hoping that that that smoking will become a thing of the past, do you think, do you think it will? I should ask Anne. Let me ask you. No. I don't think it will. And I think... the main question, and the best question that could be asked to the audience if they really Mhm. think it through... is that, do we want to live in a country where it is normal to see an advert wi, under the job section saying, no smoker need apply? Would we like to live in a country... where a blu, er smokalizer, or whatever you would like to call it, is used at the work? Not to see if they were smoking at work... but even in the privacy of their own home... would we like that? As far as the children are concerned, I would say that... children, always break the rules! If it's there. If there's a tree they will climb it, forbidden fruits always taste the sweetest. And I think, that the more you forbade, forbid the thing, the more attractive you make it to a child. But maybe you can educate people out of it rather than ban? Any, any
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker002:] other thoughts? Yes?
[speaker010:] I'm, I'm interested, I don't think anyone here has suggested the, the draconian measures which you stand to
[speaker002:] But that's what's happening!
[speaker010:] erm, I think what we've shown here is, is a, a a shared... concern about this, whether we are smokers or non-smokers. A particular concern about young people.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker010:] Kids live in the same world as adults, the advertising, the pressures are there, and I think we, also this important point that it's... women's health who's already most... disadvantaged, that's women on low incomes with very
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker010:] little support... are most affected... and we need to er, go back to what Kathleen was saying about education, we need to... help young girls get self-confidence, more se, coping skills to deal with these pressures, but also, as other people have said, we need to get the government to look at the fact as, that... encourage women to keep smoking... and address those issues as well.
[speaker002:] Good discussion! Thank you all very much indeed! I hope you've heard something that er... meant something to you. If you need help I hope you go look for it. If you're all trying to give up... good luck! And goodnight. [closing music]