[speaker001:] Yeah? I'll give you the five later.
[Martin:] The overall problem area was possibly introducing the buyer's guide.
[speaker001:] Really?
[Martin:] Possibly and sometimes the C C Q.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Martin:] I think it w it can get a little bit over elaborated and I think that may be well fear of the C C Q or fear of the buyer's guide but it, it shouldn't cause any problems in the real world and I think the more you do then you'll realize that er they're not gonna say oh my goodness me stop, leave now, I must speak to an independent financial adviser....
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] yeah what's one of them... erm and the C C Q is a structured notepad are you happy just to take down one or two details, will that be okay?
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Martin:] And just end of subject, move on. And if they wanna look at it then let them, it's not the end of the world. Cos some people do want to examine what they're gonna, but the vast majority just sit back and ignore it. So it shouldn't be that much of a problem but I do recommend erm this weekend, amongst the many other things, to look at the C C Q, or at some time before you go out in the big wide world and do it for real, to look at the C C Q and pull it apart so you know what each box is actually for. I know you have done a C C Q on yourself and we've looked at each page in detail but I think until you actually do it yourself and maybe write little prompts to let you know what's on the next page so you can signpost it most effectively to move round the C C Q as opposed to you dri er as opposed to it driving you, you can drive it, but that should be done in the fullness of time but I do recommend you do it before you actually do your first full appointment cos it might pay you.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] Right if there are no further questions then on step one we're now gonna move on to, surprise surprise, step two. And what is step two then er Bill?
[Bill:] Explore their needs.
[Martin:] Yeah, exploration of needs.... And what do we mean by exploration of needs then Barry?...
[speaker001:] [cough]...
[speaker004:] Sorry.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] What do we mean by the exploration of needs then?
[speaker004:] I'm so I'm sorry I didn't realize you'd started. Erm
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker004:] asking questions... o generally open questions, maybe sometimes closed questions
[Martin:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] just to get erm th the customer's attitude to things and erm
[Martin:] What's the purpose of erm... what is the real purpose of exploring someone's needs? You're right
[speaker004:] Distur
[Martin:] in what you're saying.
[speaker004:] disturbance?
[Martin:] Yeah, disturbance, yeah. So we then find you can get them to do something about it. And yes you ask and open probe, but follow up with secondary and tertiary open probes, what they mean if you broke your back and couldn't pay the bills, how would you suffer, what would, what would be the problems if, god forbid, you did die last night, what would you want your family to have... how much do you want them to have, when do you want them to have it... what would they go without if they didn't have it... okay so they start building mental pictures rather than saying okay you need... hundred thousand pounds worth of life assurance, because that's a fact
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Martin:] and we sell to emotions as opposed to just hard factual information. So we explore, we probe and you can probe in a variety of different ways but what are the three probes we have that you, you come across?... Getting back to the successful sales course day.
[speaker001:] probes. Summary
[Martin:] Yes, summary statements. Okay and what's the purpose of a summary statement?
[speaker001:] the questionnaire.
[Martin:] Yeah. Definitely yeah because there
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] what does that tell the customer?
[speaker001:] You're listening to You're listening.
[Martin:] You are listening to what they told you and you got the, the right picture, you know the right facts and the right details and the right emotions so you can go back and cover the right plan of attack... so you can sell them products they actually want and not what you think they
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] because this has happened time and time again and yes they do need more life cover or they do need a PHI policy or a savings plan. Erm and people will take on board different methods of being probed, some will respond to audio probes, some will re respond to some visual stimulation er conceptualize er ideas you know the ones we looked at last week like the old PEGGY symbols and erm the cheque book, PHI and life assurance, the ten percent rule and there is one another which we can look at, another mnemonic... called er erm [tut] some of you may have come across it before, others may not... and is hey... so Mr Prospect if you hadn't made an adequate retirement plan, what financial problems do you think you or family could have?... And see what he comes back with.... What affect will that have upon you or your family if you made inadequate erm pension provision?...
[speaker004:] Have we got notes on this er
[Martin:] I've got a handout for this one,... What would you and your family have to give up in retirement if you'd made inadequate provision? Could you really survive on twenty four pounds a week... or whatever the benefits would be.... And finally... how do you feel about that? And if his
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] his response is well what do you mean, you're a bit worried about it, how worried are you?... Who's come across that before?... T S B?
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Martin:] Yeah cos that's where I got it from.
[speaker001:] Ha! Well the other thing you put on the end of that is after saying how do you feel about that, how would your wife feel about that.
[Martin:] Oh yes, yeah.
[speaker001:] You pitch it at [blowing nose] don't you?
[Martin:] Yeah. Give yourself Mrs, Mrs Prospect how do you feel about having
[Joan:] [clears throat]
[Martin:] pounds
[speaker001:] [blowing nose]
[Martin:] pounds a week, you know, you know the kids are off your hand... pounds a week would pay your, would just cover your er your food bill. Yeah? for life insurance, savings... er any, any erm... investment product we have to offer or based on and around that because they're all open probes and you're gaining his thoughts and feelings.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Martin:] So try it this afternoon and see how you get on.... So if we've er if we've explored the needs satisfactorily... there may be more than one need... there may be a need for life insurance, pension planning, some form of PHI, maybe they want to save for their future or
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] their investments. So what should come next?...
[speaker001:] Priority.
[Martin:] Yes, summarizing and prioritizing. Who does that prioritizing?
[speaker001:] The customer. The client. The client.
[Martin:] Yeah let them do it, we've covered a variety of different areas... investments, life assurance, protection etcetera... on a scale of one to se one to seven which is the most important, one being that the er your number one priority, and get them to prioritize it. So they're telling you what their needs are, how concerned they are about it and what they wanna do about it... because they're more inclined to take your advice when they see you second time round, because telling isn't selling. Let them tell you, let them paint pictures. So yes we prioritize and summarize the needs. So again there's some restatement, so just to clarify things we're looking at primarily life insurance for yourself and your wife... savings plan for your daughter... PHI say in six months' time and pension planning is the, the least of your, your main concerns today, would that be the case... yeah I guess so.... So you check your understanding and you've listened to what the guy has said.... So you're signposting what you wanna do and where you wanna go. So you've prioritized and summarized, what do we need to tell them that we're gonna do now?
[Bill:] Take it away back to the office.
[Martin:] Yeah, that's the whole thing, we've gathered all the information now, we may've been there an hour, hour an a half, maybe two hours depending upon the appointment... so you go back to the office... and work on a plan of attack. Now at this juncture here you wouldn't actually say what products you're gonna do, cos you're not gonna go back and say well I'm thinking of er two hundred thousand pounds of convertible term assurance and we're looking personal pension plan, but you'll tell the guy you're gonna go back to the branch, we've got a variety of different things sir and what I wanna do is to go back to the branch and work on one or two ideas for you and then present them to you... at some time in the future. Yeah? So the guy knows what you're gonna do, and more importantly you're gonna come back and see him again.... Cos why is that important?...
[Joan:] So he doesn't
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] Sorry?
[Joan:] To, to remove the pressure from him there.
[Martin:] Yeah, okay, you're not perceived as a wonder going in there and closing a sale while you're er
[speaker001:] objection, make sure
[Martin:] Yes.
[speaker001:] that you're gonna get er they realize you're gonna come back to do the sale
[Martin:] Exactly yeah.
[speaker001:] and if there's an objection you wanna know about it now.
[Martin:] Cos there's no point in coming back and doing a second appointment and just go through the motions... cos that will lead to what?... [clears throat] If the guy doesn't know why you're coming back
[speaker001:] Further objections.
[Martin:] More objections. Do you think he might be committed to do anything there and then?
[speaker001:] No.
[Martin:] Not a in hell. Present your recommendations to him and he'll say well yeah I'd like to think about it... and you go off then oh fair enough then so you go back to the branch and the second becomes a third
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Martin:] and the third might become a fourth, the fourth unlikely to become a fifth and you think what a waste of time that was. Okay. Don't waste your time. Forty appointments a week is hard work, you wanna make sure they're productive appointments.... So we've arranged a second appointment... he knows we're gonna come back... what could, what should we be asking for at this point?
[speaker001:] Referrals.
[Martin:] Er referrals, yeah, okay. Now if you've planted a seed... or if you haven't planted a seed then... are we in a strong enough position there to ask about the people we dis we discussed on completion of the er first appointment?
[speaker001:] No.
[Martin:] Not at all are we? Why is that?...
[speaker001:] [clears throat]... You've come to the end of your appointment and then suddenly to just say okay tell me about these people
[Martin:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] he's not gonna want to know.
[Martin:] Hang on a second, you know, what's this all about then. So what we can do at this point here, Mr Prospect if you cast your mind back to when we first met, tell me how you feel, how, how do you, how, how do you feel today has gone... now what should he say?
[speaker001:] Fine thanks, very, very beneficial, yeah.
[Martin:] Something er i it's unlikely to be a negative response so if you
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] hopefully it's gonna be some form of positive response... I'm glad you should say that because if you cast your mind back to when we first talked I did say that if you were happy, and only if you're happy,
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] half a dozen introductions. Now we spoke about Bob Smith or whoever, tell me what's his telephone number because I'd like to meet the guy... and see what he says. One of two things happen... he'll ei he'll either say yeah, okay and give you the number or what might happen?
[speaker001:] He might say he'd like to speak to the guy first.
[Martin:] Yeah the chances are he may throw an objection up
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Martin:] and say well hang on a second, and what do you do with objections?
[speaker001:] Apack
[Martin:] Apack them, knowledge, probe, answer and confirm. No problem Mr Prospect, I'm glad you feel that way however I am seeing you in a fortnight's time, have a chat with him between then and now and when I see you next week I'll ta or whenever the time'll be, I'll take his telephone number from you then. Would that be okay... and how's he gonna feel? Yeah the pressure's off him straight away. Yeah. Okay but can you see the
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] if you don't bring it up a a [tut] at the first part with plan to proceed, you can't do it here. If you can't do it here you can't do it at the beginning of the second appointment, if you can't do it there then the chances are you'll do it right at the end and if you haven't made the sale I guarantee you won't ask. Guarantee it. So at the end of each appointment you want a result and a result is either the business or introductions, hopefully both... so I hang on the importance again.... So we've planted a seed and we either get introductions there and then or we've paved the way to the pick them up at the second appointment.... Now when do you feel the lion share of objections are gonna come? Really? When do you feel he's gonna bollock the most and say hang on
[speaker001:] Oh er what the business or
[Martin:] Yeah when do you feel that the majority of objections are gonna come out, or the strongest objections.
[speaker001:] the point of sale.
[Martin:] Yeah, really, yeah. The second appointment when you've done your, you've gone through the presentation, you've done your benefit statements and you say right... is this the policy
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] starts today, that's when the lion share of objections are gonna come out. You're always gonna have objections, I think you've seen so far, throughout the whole sales process, some are more awkward than others but you got by them but the majority will come when you ask for the business, or go to ask for the business. So what would you feel... is the sort of objections you might get out there?
[speaker001:] Er I wanna think about it. Can I leave it for now.
[Martin:] I wanna think about it?
[speaker001:] Absolutely....
[Martin:] Yeah?
[speaker001:] I wanna talk to somebody else.
[Martin:] Speak to somebody else, yeah....
[speaker001:] Can't afford it....
[Martin:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Changed my mind.... [cough]... Er different quote, I need a quote. Can I speak to someone else. Oh right I thought that meant [cough] you know wife or father-in-law. [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] No no it could be another adviser, it could be their accountant, solicitor... somebody else if I may....
[speaker001:] Hasn't got the authority.... Might need his wife there to do it, oh right....
[Martin:] Sorry?
[Joan:] He could ask why do I need it.
[Martin:] Yeah. Erm... okay, do I need it... or changed mind.
[speaker001:] I didn't realize you wanted to sign up the business today.
[Martin:] Erm...
[speaker001:] Well the thing is if, if, if at that meeting you don't say what is gonna happen at the second meeting
[Martin:] Yeah, erm... don't do it now, don't do it now.... Can I say
[speaker001:] Yes fine, mm....
[Martin:] Any more?... I think those are... I think quite realistic objections that you are going to come across
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] big battle with them. So how can we preempt this happening?
[speaker001:] You tell him exactly what's gonna happen at the next meeting and providing what you present meets his needs and is within his budget, will he be proceeding?
[Martin:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Get the budget. Get the budget....
[Martin:] So who has heard of ANNA before?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Martin:] Okay which, in a nutshell, says exactly which one could. So what does the first A of ANNA stand for then?
[speaker001:] Authority.
[Martin:] Authority. Yeah, okay.... Justified
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] at our next meeting... is there anyone else you need to consult before making the decision to proceed... now at this point, it's coming to the end of the first appointment, you're pretty sure you're on your way so the pressure is off, he's feeling fairly relaxed and hopefully he's enjoyed the whole sale process with you, so what should his re his response be? He should say well no I can't think of anybody. Well if it does then you need to know it now, why do you need to know now.
[speaker001:] Get them there.
[Martin:] Get them there, preempt it, okay, because you want to save your time. You don't wanna go and present to somebody when he says well I've from Dunbar or Standard Life. So what objection does that remove from this little er...
[Joan:] Speak to someone else.
[speaker001:] Speak to someone else.
[Martin:] Get rid of that one there, yeah. Anyone else? Anything else rather? Sorry?... No? Okay.... What's the first N?
[Joan:] Needs.
[speaker001:] Needs.
[Martin:] Needs. Yeah.... Mr Client are you happy we've addressed all your needs during the discussions today. Now the chances are he's gonna say well yeah I thought so because the, the size of the C C Q makes them identify just about everything so far but in case we have missed something. What objections does needs get rid of? What does that need remove from these objections?
[speaker001:] Do I need it. Do I need it. [cough]...
[Martin:] Yeah, any more?
[speaker001:] It should get away, it should get rid of think about it I'd've thought.
[Martin:] Mm. Okay, okay we'll look at that. The second N?
[speaker001:] Now....
[Martin:] At our next meeting Mr Client I shall not only be making recommendations but I will be explaining how each recommended product works for you in great detail. recommendations happy with them, is there any reason why we'll not be able to proceed without delay.... What does that get rid of?...
[speaker001:] Erm think about it. Ask to think about it. [cough] Can't afford it.... Don't do it now. Don't do it now.
[Martin:] Don't do it now, yeah.
[Joan:] Change your mind.
[Martin:] Change your mind I suppose, yeah, mhm. It might get rid of that as well, it might do.... And the last A?
[Joan:] Amount.
[Martin:] Okay. And finally Mr Prospect, Mr Client rather, are you in agreement... that the amount of money, whatever it is, which is available to implement these re those recommendations. What does that now get rid of?
[speaker001:] Can't afford it. Can't afford it. [cough] Spookily enough. [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] Spooky eh? [singing] doo doo doo doo doo doo doo []... Now I don't care in what order you do ANNA, it could be NANA, AANN, NNAA I don't give a monkeys
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] or NAAN, I don't care, so long you include it at the end of your first appointments because at the end of the day all you're doing is saving yourself a bit of time, and that's the whole purpose of ANNA... to make sure that when you go back on your second appointment, this guy is committed to do something. So when your managers speak to you at the beginning of a er of your Monday morning meeting to say... Gerald how much business have you got landed for next week you can say with conviction, two, two definite cases. If you don't do it, it'll be two possibly threeish because you're not too sure, you've got to go back to the second appointment and he might do it but then again he may not. So who are you fooling?...
[Joan:] Yourself.
[speaker001:] Us.
[Martin:] You've gotta be hard on yourselves and say this is my business, I can't afford to waste time, I want to deal with people that wanna do business with me. So you want strong, effective second appointments by doing strong thorough firsts.... I've got a handout for, on this one....
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] [sneeze] Scribbling away like [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] I think it should be part of the selection procedure how to do shorthand.... So... that is step two. The exploration ne [tut] the exploration of needs by open probes erm confirming by visual er conceptualization using PEGGY... use whatever tools you have available at your armoury but don't move on until you feel the guy is either totally not committed to do something or sufficiently disturbed to do something. Again be aware you don't go completely OTT. Summarize those needs cos there may be more than one... and tell him what you're gonna do, what is the plan of attack, when you're gonna see the guy again... and when we do our business building up, you can take it back to... erm the benefits of him introducing us to other people by keeping policy charges down and increasing bonuses whenever possible, cos it's in his benefit he introduces us to others so we don't have to advertise, or very very rarely advertise. And then very very importantly the last mnemonic ANNA cos that really is belt and braces, it's tying the whole thing up so the guy knows exactly why you're gonna come back. Yeah?... Any qu any questions?... Do you ken?
[Joan:] Yes I do.
[Martin:] Good. Right. Well now we'll now look at the... second part of the er sales video as a help first... and again give you an example, a flavour of how to conduct the next set of role plays.... [video playing] Is that loud enough for you? Yeah, great. [the following is a from a sales video]
[speaker001:] Step two exploration of needs. This part of the selling process is directed towards finding out about your client and completing the C C Q. With all clients you must attempt to complete all relevant areas of the C C Q. This includes gathering hard facts, date of birth, marital status, dependants, hobbies and so on. Soft facts are also important as they'll help you to get to know your client better, to understand their feelings, views and aspirations in a number of areas. At the same time look for referral opportunities, for example if a group hobby has been identified then who does your client do that hobby with? And when you're about to complete the C C Q you must make it clear that the information given to you and subsequently transferred to the C C Q is in strictest confidence. You should also give your client an indication of how long the appointment is going to take. As I said before I need to take one or two notes about your current financial situation and I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that any information you give me will be treated in the strictest of confidence. Is that alright? Yes that sounds fine. But tell me how long will all this take? Oh er about an hour on average, it does depend on your circumstances. It is important that I put myself in a position to be able to give you the best possible advice. Fine. Okay, let's get started then. Er Graham Davis, is that your full name? No it's Graham Kenneth Davis. Fine, thank you. And your wife's name? Er Janet, Janet.... Okay so we've looked at your current income and expenditure, what I'd like to do now is move on to the future. At what age do you hope to retire? Oh sixty five I suppose.... Okay, so imagine you were sixty five years today, how much of your current income would you want? All of it? [LAUGHTER] Most of my clients say that []. And what arrangements have you made for that? Oh I haven't er I suppose I'm expecting the State to support me. Yes unfortunately though it's getting less likely that anyone can rely on that. If you had retired yesterday and you hadn't made proper arrangements... what impact would this have on your way of life? Well erm the mortgage would be paid off and er so we would have the house and erm I guess we would receive the State pension. Yes, that would be around eighty pounds a week. And the children would be off our hands by then. Well that's true but what would you want to do? What do you mean? Well, on top of the expense of maintaining the house and the car, you may want to continue any hobbies you may have or take more holidays. You may even have grandchildren by that stage and so you'll probably want to help them. How would you afford it?... I don't know. You see these are the sorts of issues we must address to ensure you can maintain your current lifestyle. Do you agree it's a concern? Mm.... Can I just check, you're not currently in a pension scheme are you? No, no I'm not. And you couldn't join one? No my employer refused to consider it. He was quite adamant. Well we should also look into you contracting out of SERPS. Has that been suggested to you before? Yes but erm Once you've established your client's needs in this area of the C C Q and completed the relative parts, move on to the next. Okay so we've looked at how to ensure you have a happy retirement but what would happen to your family if you were to die before that?... Well I haven't given it much thought but er if I were to die I wouldn't want my wife and family to suffer. So that's protection is important to you? Have you made a will at all? No that's er that's something else we've been meaning to do. If you had made a will who would be the major beneficiary? Er basically who would you like the money to go to if you were to die? Well my wife and family. So on your death you'd want your estate to pass on to your wife and then on her death to the children, is that correct? Yes that's about right.... Had you died last night, what would they have?... Well, the mortgage would be paid off and er well I do have some life insurance. Oh good. Do you know how much or what income it does provide? Er the mortgage is for fifty thousand pounds and I think my life insurance policy would pay out about... forty five thousand pounds. Right. Okay so the mortgage is paid but what do you suggest your wife does with the forty five thousand pounds? Oh I guess she'd have to invest it. Well that makes sense but we can't be sure what the interest rate would be. Now er your wife and family would receive around four thousand pounds a year to live on... is that what you want to happen? [sigh] Well no, no that's not enough, they couldn't survive on that. What would you want them to have? Well I'm not too sure but... well at least enough to pay all the bills and, and have a bit left over. Can you put a figure to that? Erm say about eight hundred pounds a month. So that works out to around ten thousand pounds a year.... How important to you is it that your wife and family can have this protection. It's very important. Mm. Very important. Well now you've made me stop and think about it four thousand pounds a year is nothing.... Ah but she will get something from the State won't she? Oh yes she should receive the widow's pension of around fifty six pounds a week. Is that all? I'm afraid so.... So combining the State benefits with your own life insurance that still only provides around seven thousand pounds a year. How do you feel about that?... [sigh] It's pretty morbid stuff isn't it?... Well it can be if you were to die without leaving proper protection for your family... as premature death isn't just one death but three, the death of a father, the death of a husband and the death of a salary. Unfortunately I can do nothing about the first two but it is my responsibility to protect your salary so that your wife and family are looked after. So if she needs around ten thousand pounds... where's the extra three thousand pounds a year gonna come from?... I don't know. I guess that's where you come in. Yeah! Oscar material! appointment all areas should have been discussed. At the end of this process you must establish how important each area is to your client. We've discussed several areas today, the effects of retiring from work on little or no income, the consequences of your premature death on the lifestyle of your family, the result of ill health on your standard of living and providing you with a custom built savings plan. Is there anything else you'd like to discuss? No I think we've covered just about everything. If we were to prioritize these needs on a one to seven basis, one being the most important and seven the least, which would be the number one priority? Well I feel that er protecting my income if I were to die would be the most important thing at the moment and er possibly er making some provision for my retirement. That's probably all we would want to look at for the time being. Okay. In order that I can make my recommendations realistic, how much do you feel you can comfortably invest on a monthly basis to protect your wife and family and make provision for your retirement? Er... let's say a hundred and fifty pounds a month towards a pension and er maybe fifty pounds towards life protection. Okey-doke that's fine. And you're sure you're comfortable with that amount? Yes, yes that's fine. Okay I'll put together some ideas based on the areas we've discussed today and if we can arrange a time for me to come back I can present my recommendations to you. That's fine. Again ensure that your client is happy with everything and [cough] any queries before arranging your second appointment. So when would be the best time for me to come back and present these ideas to you? Well we're going on holiday next week so it will have to be after that. Erm how about three weeks from today? Er... fine, yes that's fine, yeah, about what time? This is the best time to take your client back to the introductions you mentioned earlier. Tell me have you found today's discussions to be of benefit? Yes very much so. It's amazing how much we all trust to luck and hope that it will never happen to us. Yes. If you cast your mind back to when we first spoke and how we build our business by word of mouth introductions, I'd like the opportunity of meeting one or two of your colleagues and introducing them to our service. Well er I, I'm not sure that they're really interested in insurance. Well I can appreciate that. I just want to exchange one or two ideas with them which they may find to be of benefit. Erm you mentioned your brother earlier and er Geoff from the sports and social club... I'd like to give them a call, do you have the numbers? Well let me speak to my brother first but erm give Geoff a call, I know that he's looking for something. Geoff Banks, is that it? Yeah. Thank you. Yeah here we are, Geoff Banks, nine four O Aha. You should proceed to support these referrals with age, occupation, family circumstances and so on. ANNA is a mnemonic for authority, needs, now and amount and has to be introduced at the end of the first appointment. It's used to gain a firm commitment that your client will proceed with your product recommendations on the second appointment. In order to clarify my thinking Mr Davis, when you receive my recommendations at our meeting is there anyone else you would need to consult before making a decision to proceed? No I don't think so. And do you feel we've addressed all your needs today?... Yes, definitely. Good. So the next time we meet, providing your happy and you understand all my recommendations, is there any reason why we couldn't proceed? No er provided I understand. [LAUGHTER] And you agree that two hundred pounds a month is available and affordable to implement those recommendations? Yeah. Great, fine I think we're done. Thanks for your time. Not at all. You can then close your first appointment with some form of appropriate sociability. When dealing with step two, remember to probe and explore your client's needs, summarize and prioritize them, then get permission to proceed with your product recommendations. You can then arrange your second appointment and request any referrals, and finally ANNA. [video ends] [cough]
[Martin:] Right. There you have it, the way to conduct your second er your... er step two within the first appointment. Any questions or comments?... Okay. Then at this juncture here I'll now nominate what products you'll be working with and you'll have these two products throughout today and tomorrow. So... Robert, Barry and Gareth you'll be doing role play number one which is linked around life assurance. Joan, Diane and Max will be on P H I which is role play number two, Bill, Roger and Vince you'll be looking at pensions and Rob you'll be just doing savings. So in groups B and C role play it'll be your nominated product, okay you won't have to do one on savings yeah? So maybe you'll end up doing er two life assurance pe [tut] two life assurance presentations or to P H I or two pensions... and the benefit of that this way is that you all can see at least one presentation and one probing around a different product as opposed to the one you're working with. Is that clear everybody?
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Martin:] Right. So know that, if you now refer back to the, the book that I've given you this morning... and if you turn to where it says... okay it says stop here do not read on
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] if you can subsequently turn over from there you'll see inverted commas... first appointment skills.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] Excuse me I just have to rush over here for no real reason and touch something and rush back again. You can have this one. Okay the second part of first appointment skill role play, I E step two the exploit of needs is to be conducted using the appropriate page of the photocopied CC C C Q which relates to your nominated product. So for life assurance it'll be page twelve of the C C Q but it's role play number one. The P H I is role play number two, pensions is role play number three and savings is role play number four. So if you can turn to the appropriate part of your book that relates to your nominated role play.... Assume that you've done all other pages of the C C Q and this is the last page to be addressed.
[speaker001:] Even these ones that you haven't done in between?...
[Martin:] Er yeah can I just read this out and I'll explain. [reading] On completion of this page firm and prioritize needs and for the purpose of the role play this is your customer's only need... and explain you'll put together recommendations placed on the information given to you by your role play client. Arrange the second appointment using a simple request for referrals and end the role play utilizing the mnemonic ANNA []. So we're effectively starting
[speaker001:] [clears throat]...
[Martin:] at this point here and going right down to the final A of ANNA and the way you can, you can, cos you're gonna step in mid way now and you assume that the appropriate sociability has set the rapport has been built and you start the role play by saying thanks very much for that, I now wanna talk about... whatever your product is, yeah, and then step into role play that way? Do you get the idea?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Martin:] Now then... if you look, I'll just take, this applies to all of you but I'm just gonna take for example role play number one... you will have some... details you'll have gathered from erm the previous role play. However, having said that... the information you have gathered from previous role play you now subsequently ignore because the hard facts are down here so people doing the role play number one, here's a chartered accountant who has a house wife. He is earning thirty thousand pounds with a take home pay of nineteen hundred pounds, yeah? And then you'll find, over the page... there's the appropriate page of the C C Q which relates to life insurance so you can use that as your prompt to gather your sole facts, what his feelings towards life insurance is, the protection he should have, what he may have already, yeah? So the people doing life insurance should probe around that particular page of the C C Q, yeah? Is that clear to people doing the life insurance one?... Yeah?... Okay. Number two which is PHI... again you know they're married, they have two children, again this person's a chartered accountant, however his wife does work... and you'll be using, let's see... okay the income protection disability accident and illness page, just the top half to probe and gain his thoughts on income protection if he were to break his back and what he or she may or may not have er already set up, yeah? Okay. and then pensions are the same again except the guy's a carpenter, a self-employed carpenter, and then finally erm there's only one of you doing er so you Robert going for the savings, you're doing savings aren't you?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Martin:] Yeah okay, then you have the appropriate facts there and you can explore the bit about savings and plans for the future but you will have his attitude to er do you er is attitude to risk there? Or does that come later?... No okay, so you just have the appropriate page which relates to his savings for the future. Everyone okay with what they have to do with regards to their respective role plays?
[speaker001:] Yeah on the pensions one er are we a page missing or am I just a page missing?
[Martin:] Erm
[speaker001:] got that page.
[Martin:] Yeah you haven't got the page that relates to pension schemes.
[speaker001:] What, what age do you want to retire and what income do you want and
[Martin:] That sort of thing, yeah. Yeah So the actual timings... are as follows... you have five minutes preparation before each role play to get yourself together... there's fifteen minutes role play which is recorded but there's no playbacks, we haven't got the time unfortunately. Okay so you do record the role play but you do not play it back and we have fifteen minutes of feedback.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Martin:] role play cycle should take around about thirty five minutes, yeah? So you do record the role play but you don't play it back. So it's vitally important now that the people that are watching really do pay attention cos you're not gonna get a second bite of the cherry. Now this will definitely test your listening skills and, I know it's getting late in the afternoon and you've had a heavy meal, but you really do have to concentrate because the feedback you give him is now, or her rather, is now vitally important, okay, cos you haven't got a second bite of the cherry. Alright? So before we break to our groups okay can I have the old step one critiques that you haven't used back, thank you, and now we have step two, same format as before... write down your comments and then give the comments to
[speaker001:] No secrets.
[Martin:] the appropriate sales person so that he and she can log it away in the manual. Is everyone clear what they have to do? Anyone not sure?
[speaker001:] Yeah because it's just I feel I'm missing a page, I've got two of the same page right, two are the same, er different social, can I just pull one of those out and use that? Yeah.
[Martin:] You've gotta stick to the same order that I showed you this morning, yeah? Cos otherwise if you start doing it now then I might just pick up one person again and again, cos we will check as customers... but we want you to take otherwise it gets very very confusing and I don't wanna miss any of you. Oh yes, thank you. Good point. Okay. Here I am saying I've
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] Absolutely. Absolutely. So if we can break to your syndicate groups and start er the first role play cycle to get going, what, ten to four?... Yeah so that'll take us, and do four role plays, that will take us two hours and twenty minutes, is that alright?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Martin:] Two hours twenty minutes so we start at ten to... back here at twenty past six, yeah? So do the four role plays then all come back here at twenty past six for a debrief and then we'll call it a day. Alright so if you go to your syndicate rooms now I will join you in due course.
[speaker001:] taking your stuff with you.... I'm doing the PHI. I know who my customer's going to be so I mean I know... Martin. Yeah. Do we take it that that's complete because if you look there I mean there's, there's nothing which we've asked earlier anyway. When you come to that particular page. Oh I see, well yeah but we've got that, you've got that From the so we're actually starting to complete that particular page. Right. And you'd have got the appropriate information Okay fine. Yeah? Yeah.
[Bill:] And the carpenter is self-employed single?
[speaker001:] Erm... yeah.
[Bill:] Self-employed single. Okay....
[Joan:] Well I know that you're going to come back and be my customer, I know that. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Right. I'll look forward to it.
[Joan:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] I'm sure it'll be very very exciting.... Are you gonna be Mr Goodwin?
[Maggie:] Yes.
[speaker001:] As, as your spouse is a housewife.
[Maggie:] Absolutely, yes, I've, I've had a sex change.
[speaker001:] Right.
[Joan:] They're quite common these days [LAUGHTER] aren't they []?
[Maggie:] Well it's true as anybody who watched er Prime Suspect last night would realize.
[Joan:] What's that one?
[Maggie:] Prime Suspect.
[Joan:] Oh I missed that Was it as good as one?
[Maggie:] Erm a little bit didn't it but waiting for you when you get home
[Joan:] No I haven't.
[Maggie:] Well the suspect,th th the guy who committed the murder's not any of the people it was Harvey Jones from the centre cos he was involved in paedophilia.
[speaker001:] And his name kept coming up all the time didn't it, Harvey Jones?
[Maggie:] Yeah well I mean t it's probably based on real stuff because there ha there had been some very blarey results where people taken on trust and then these guys all the access and all the money coming in these vulnerable people. He was, he was the one... [sigh] Vincent the erm cross-dresser had actually had some operations and become nearly Vera... and he had actually banged Connie on the head with an ashtray cos Connie was selling his story and sold some personal family photos Sorry I'm
[speaker001:] The, the only... one that was slightly lost, there was, there was a, a, a top dog
[Maggie:] High ranking police officer.
[speaker001:] yeah.
[Maggie:] Well he had actually retired from the police force, he'd been cited and he'd been cleared, but he was actually, as it turned out later, practising paedophilia and as he realized that in fact the investigation was coming close to him, he shot himself
[speaker001:] Right yeah.
[Maggie:] and his wife, it was her second marriage, her first one had been to the doctor and he had actually examined paedophilia backed off, basically said well... she didn't, she couldn't get a conviction but it was quite clear... that he had the motive and he'd had the opportunity because Connie died from the fire which Harvey Jones had set cos he found out
[speaker001:] Oh we'd better hadn't we, yeah, put it back where it was.
[Joan:] Er this is in the right place isn't it?
[speaker001:] Yes it wasn't rewound. Hopefully.
[Joan:] Do you want me to check or shall I?
[speaker001:] I think it was alright, I think we stopped it in time didn't we? You can check if you want to, I don't mind.
[Joan:] just in case.
[speaker001:] If you want to. Ah right.
[Joan:] Better to be safe than sorry.
[speaker001:] It certainly is.... Oh no this is [LAUGHTER]
[Maggie:] [clears throat] Having a little trouble with the voice you know!
[Joan:] Well I know I'm
[Maggie:] Which one are you doing?
[speaker001:] Life assurance. Are, are you er the most
[Maggie:] Is that one two three or four? That's erm
[speaker001:] One.
[Maggie:] Right.
[speaker001:] Are you the most senior in Brentwood?
[Maggie:] Erm in terms of what?
[speaker001:] A as a consultant?
[Maggie:] Yes I am at the moment, I, I'm the highest earner at the moment and I'm on the highest grade... but I haven't been there the longest.
[speaker001:] Alright was it? She's good.
[Maggie:] I'm the second... longest serving....
[Joan:] Who's the next customer after you Maggie seeing as you changed order?...
[Maggie:] Er I think, oh god it's on the desk down there.... I'm trying to understand his er programme.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I'd of thought.
[Maggie:] I think Steve's taken it. Yeah the next customer, I don't know whether you've got Steve
[Joan:] It's going to be Martin.
[speaker001:] How are we looking?...
[Maggie:] I can't read this programme.
[Joan:] The light's flashing on this screen you know,
[speaker001:] You what?
[Joan:] The word light is flashing on the screen... or shall I just not worry about it?
[speaker001:] What does it say.
[Joan:] Light. L I G H T.
[speaker001:] Light?
[Joan:] Yeah.... Oh not now that you've moved that off actually, it's only when sitting there No it seems to have come back again. switch the lights off... it should be okay I mean I just don't know
[speaker001:] Just carry on. How's that? What about now? Has it gone off now, lights gone off?
[Joan:] It certainly has.... Ooh spooky. Not another spooky
[Maggie:] Probably....
[speaker001:] start on the basis of going through page twelve.
[Joan:] Can you when you're ready.
[speaker001:] Yeah I wish I wash.
[Maggie:] Hang on a second, page twelve. That's the life
[speaker001:] It's the life insurance...
[Joan:] I don't want to put any pressure on you here but we're all using you as a role model for our
[speaker001:] Thank you very much.
[Joan:] pressurize you
[speaker001:] I know you do.
[Joan:] just, just so that you know that we're using you
[speaker001:] I feel, I feel very pressurized actually.
[Joan:] as a role model, okay?
[speaker001:] I feel very pressurized.
[Joan:] Okay?
[speaker001:] ...
[Maggie:] ...
[speaker001:] Right fine thanks, thanks for that information Mr Goodwin. What I, what I'd like to do now is, is just to go through er your existing arrangements that you have with er life assurance policies and we know that er you've got some existing cover as far as er your mortgage is concerned, erm [tut] has erm has Mrs Goodwin got any er life cover?
[Maggie:] Erm yes she has, she's got a
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Maggie:] she's got a number of things actually, yeah.
[speaker001:] Right. Erm... now obviously I, I've got details here of, of your Friends Provident policy, erm it's, it's on both your lives
[Maggie:] That's right.
[speaker001:] is that right? And it's seventy thousand pounds worth of cover
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] started in er March eighty seven er over twenty five years so presumably that's, that's the one that er that pa that tied in with your mortgage
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and at the moment I think your premium on that is erm is sixty eight pounds of a month?
[Maggie:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Okay. Erm what other policies have you?
[Maggie:] Erm I've got something with Scottish Amicable, now erm... that's for ten thousand pounds.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Is that, that st is that just on your life or is that a joint con contract.
[Maggie:] That's just on me. That's just on me.
[speaker001:] And that's for ten thousand?
[Maggie:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Right. Do you know when that started?
[Maggie:] Er... yeah I took it out about three years after the, the mortgage one.
[speaker001:] Mhm. So that'd be about nineteen ninety would it? Couple of years ago.
[Maggie:] Yes. Yes.
[speaker001:] Right.
[Maggie:] Some time in the summer.
[speaker001:] In the summer?
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Right. Erm and how, how long is that for? Do you know what the term of that contract is?
[Maggie:] Oh that pays out when I die.
[speaker001:] It's, it, it er it's a life policy is it? It's only payable on death?
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.... And how much er do you pay?
[Maggie:] Yes.
[speaker001:] And how much a month's that one?
[Maggie:] Er let me think the er... er that's twenty one pounds a month.
[speaker001:] Twenty one pounds, right. Is that under trust that policy?
[Maggie:] No.
[speaker001:] It isn't. Right. It's not signed to anybody else the other policies are signed in connection with the mortgage?
[Maggie:] No, no no just extra life cover.
[speaker001:] And, and that's purely on, on your own life?
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Right.... Right have, have you got er a any other policies, you've mentioned those two, any others on your death?
[Maggie:] No not on me, no. No no.
[speaker001:] Right, what about Mrs Goodwin?
[Maggie:] Erm now she's got three po three smaller policies, erm... one with the Pru
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Maggie:] That's
[speaker001:] Do you know what that's worth?
[Maggie:] About a couple of thousand I think.
[speaker001:] That, that was sort of the initial cover was it, two thousand?
[Maggie:] Mm yes.
[speaker001:] Right.
[Maggie:] I think that's one of these ten year policies. In fact she's got three ten year policies....
[speaker001:] Three. Were th were they taken out for any specific reason?
[Maggie:] Erm well I think she felt that she needed a bit of life cover, you know, with the children and so on and so forth.
[speaker001:] Mhm. So were, were they actually
[Maggie:] And she wanted to have some,s some money coming out you know
[speaker001:] Right.
[Maggie:] at regular intervals.
[speaker001:] Okay. So are, are they, are they all identical? Are they all the same?
[Maggie:] No we've got them with three different companies, we decided to, to spread it out.
[speaker001:] Right okay, so if I can just look at the details for each of them. So we've got the Pru wh which is worth two thousand, when was that started?
[Maggie:] Ooh now that started before we took out the mortgage, about a couple of years before I think.
[speaker001:] Right so that would be about eighty five?
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right. And... and that er, that was a ten year policy so that one
[Maggie:] That was ten years.
[speaker001:] comes out in ninety five.
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Right.... And you pa you pay them all monthly presumably do you
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] by standing order or direct debit. Right wh what's the premium of that one.
[Maggie:] Oh... erm I've no idea but it's quite small I think, about nine or ten pound.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Then again is, is that written under trust or
[Maggie:] No.
[speaker001:] No. Are any of the policies under trust?
[Maggie:] No.
[speaker001:] No and they're all just on, on your wife's life.
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Right. So that, that's the Pru one, what, what are the other two?
[Maggie:] Erm one's with C I S
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Maggie:] and that's about three thousand, three and a half thousand
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Maggie:] she took that out in the, in the same year as we started the mortgage, she thought it was a good idea to take some extra saving.
[speaker001:] Right. So that would, that would be eighty seven wouldn't it?
[Maggie:] Aha.
[speaker001:] And that, that's ten years as well, you said
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] they're all ten year policies. Right so it's another monthly one, and what, what's the premium on that one? Much about the same I suppose is it, or slightly dearer?
[Maggie:] It's, yeah somewhere I think it's a pound or two more but I can't be sure.
[speaker001:] Right so that's about eleven pounds a month. Fine and, and the third one?
[Maggie:] Erm that was a friend of ours started working for Liverpool Vic and she took one out er took that out the year before we moved.
[speaker001:] Right so what, what, when would that be? That would, that would be er about eighty six was it
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] eighty seven.... And what was that one worth? What, what was the initial value of that one?
[Maggie:] Mm it was about... two and a half, three thousand.
[speaker001:] That one's two and a half. Right and again ten years, monthly premium, and that will be about the same, about ten pounds a month, something like that?
[Maggie:] Yeah, yeah round about that, maybe a pound or so more.
[speaker001:] Right.... Right, none of them er written under trust. Right so really then if, if we're looking at both yourself and, and your wife, you've actually got sort of just those five policies
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] between you, the main one erm paying off the mortgage?
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay, fine. Right. Erm... looking at the er a a a at the figures on those erm you've got, if, if we include the m the mortgage policy, you've got about eighty thousand pounds worth of life cover
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] and er... Mrs Goodwin's got about three, six... eight, say nine thousand. Do you agree with that?
[Maggie:] Yes, roughly about that.
[speaker001:] Right. Obviously they're,th the mortgage one actually is a, is a, is a joint one so having said it's eighty thousand really as far as, as you're concerned it's ten, ten thousand pounds there for you and, and seventy thousand on a, on a joint life first death basis so
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] if either of you were, were to die it pays out first of all. Erm loo looking at that, erm [tut] if you were to die tomorrow, hopefully you won't but if you were, what sort of figure do you think your, your er wife would like, would require in order to continue to live how she is at the moment and be able to look after and feed and keep the children?
[Maggie:] [tut] well erm the mortgage would be paid
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Maggie:] so she wouldn't have that worry and that means of course she wouldn't be paying out the premium on the endowment policy
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Maggie:] so... she'd be about erm... three four hundred pounds a month better off
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Maggie:] and of course I'm er er I, I'm the wage earner.
[speaker001:] Yeah your, your income at the moment, yours is thirty thousand a year isn't it gross
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] and er take home pay you said is ni nineteen hundred pounds a month
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] thereabouts.... So I mean if y if you... say that's, that's the income you've got at the moment, what, what sort of income would you believe that er that Mrs Goodwin would need if you weren't around tomorrow?
[Maggie:] Well I would probably want her not to have too much less than what she's got at the moment because
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Maggie:] erm there's still the kids to put through
[speaker001:] That's right.
[Maggie:] er education.
[speaker001:] Yeah. So really if, if you say took er took the mortgage out which is what, about three hundred pounds a month, something like that, four hundred?
[Maggie:] Yes.
[speaker001:] So you, you're really looking at er a at er an income of, minimum of, of fifteen hundred a month to er to survive on?
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay?... Right erm... as a rule of thumb we, we generally sort of look and say well erm if yo if your income's thirty thousand a year, yeah, you should be looking to, to provide sort of ten, fifteen times that er as a, as a guide to the amount of life cover you need. How do you feel about that say?...
[Maggie:] Yes I think er that that, yes that, that... sounds about right from the point of view of what you'd get back.
[speaker001:] Right. So erm on that basis if, if, if we say that er that, that you're looking for say thirty... thirty thousand a year you're looking at three hundred, four hundred and fifty thousand... say four hundred thousand life cover.
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Can, can you see that as er as an amount that er that would be needed? Or do, do you accept that that's the amount that er that your wife would need?
[Maggie:] Yes er about erm what, what would give her about thirty thou yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] Okay?
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] You, you seem a bit hesitant about that. Is there anything that's worrying you about it?
[Maggie:] Yeah I think that, that that sounds a little bit too much. I think probably, bearing in mind that the, the mortgage would be paid, I think we're probably looking at something like... more like three hundred thousand.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Which, and if, if, if we relate that to you, to your current salary of thirty thousand
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] which means really all that she's gonna be left with... your income for ten years doesn't it?
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] I mean what happens at, at, at the end of the time
[Maggie:] But if she invests it she's, she's, she's going to get an income isn't she?
[speaker001:] Erm yes, I mean if er er if er I mean obviously being a chartered accountant you'll, you'll know where to invest it but I mean wh wh what sort of return would you expect er her to get on say a, a three hundred thousand investment?
[Maggie:] Well she'd probably get about erm
[speaker001:] On current rates.
[Maggie:] twenty thousand about... something, something like that.
[speaker001:] Mhm. So I mean er well if, if we have three hundred thousand
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] and we, and we were looking at er at ten percent, my maths are good, we're looking at what three, three thousand a year?... Or have I lost a nought somewhere.
[Maggie:] You've lost a nought.
[speaker001:] I've lost a nought, thirty thousand a year
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] yeah so that, that would, that would be er... that would be ten percent. Interest rates at the moment, I think er er returns er are not ten percent are they?...
[Maggie:] No this is true.
[speaker001:] So can you see why we're looking at perhaps a, a, or we ought to be considering a figure a big higher than three hundred thousand.
[Maggie:] Erm well if she's going to be er having an income of about twenty thousand a year after the mortgage is paid I think that would be sufficient.
[speaker001:] Right. Okay you, you'd be, you
[Maggie:] I think that would be su
[speaker001:] think that's about right?
[Maggie:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Okay. Now if erm... we're, we're looking at that so, where are we, erm so we're, we're looking at a figure of, of shall we say three hundred thousand?
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Right. Erm... er apart from the mortgage are there any other outstanding bills or, or... that, that you've got which you have been?
[Maggie:] Well we, we talked about that earlier on and we haven't.
[speaker001:] Right so that's out, so we're really looking at, at purely on, on that, the mortgage that er is paid off and as you said by er by your policy so that's fine. Right so on, on that er... on that basis then what we're saying is that erm you would need erm sufficient funds so that your wife would be able to have an income of s of twenty thousand pounds a year
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] and on that basis you believe that that would be, or do you believe that that would be adequate so that she could maintain and carry on and drive the family car and living in the house children
[Maggie:] Oh yeah I don't want her to be better off er for when [LAUGHTER] I die []
[speaker001:] No but, but
[Maggie:] might tempt her to the wrong thoughts.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] but she, you, you believe that she would er have sufficient there to survive on.
[Maggie:] I think so, yes. She's careful.
[speaker001:] Right okay. Erm right so looking at the details of those, right what we've, what we're actually saying then is that if erm you, you would want to provide that income or want to make sure that that, that income was available should you die tomorrow?
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Right. Erm... do you believe if, if we erm oh I think we've already covered that bit... right so if I put erm come up with a erm a recommendation that would provide erm an income for your wife in the event of your death erm is there any reason why we can't look at this? Within reason will you consider it?
[Maggie:] Erm well I'd like to see how much it would cost me.
[speaker001:] Mhm. I mean er
[Maggie:] And I'd like to see how it worked.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Fine. If we look at erm your, your income at the moment we're looking in the region of take home pay of, of nineteen
[Maggie:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] hundred a month...... erm have you any idea of what sort of budget you will be, be looking at?
[Maggie:] Oh well we're fairly... heavily committed at the moment but erm... well I suppose we could go up to a budget of about forty pounds a month.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Forty pounds a month....
[Maggie:] If that would provide that sort of cover.
[speaker001:] Well to be honest I don't think it's, it would be likely to. Erm I mean the... if you, if you're looking at erm at er at, at, at the costs on that erm I mean do you, do you think that er er that that's a reasonable sum to, to actually put aside ea each month to provide that sort of protection or, or perhaps you ought to be thinking of, of looking at a higher figure.
[Maggie:] No I think that's a maximum.
[speaker001:] The maximum you can afford at the moment?
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] What about er in future years? Do you think that's likely to increase?
[Maggie:] Well you said that you'd be coming back each year didn't you so, so I mean we can review it as it goes
[speaker001:] Right.
[Maggie:] cos who knows in twelve months' time how things will change.
[speaker001:] Okay right. So... in other words then just to, just to summarize erm if I can come or if I can come up with er a recommendation to provide that sort of cover within that er price range erm then erm... is there, is there any reason why when I do that er next time that you couldn't, come back with an appointment next week, that you couldn't er proceed?
[Maggie:] No I think that would be, that would be okay?
[speaker001:] Fine. Is, is there anybody else that you would want to con want to discuss it with?
[Maggie:] No no I make the decisions as far as finance is concerned.
[speaker001:] Right. Erm on the basis that the, that the recommendations were acceptable would you be happy to proceed next time?...
[Maggie:] Yes I think that's quite possible.
[speaker001:] Fine and you're happy obviously with the budget of er forty Cut. pounds?
[Maggie:] Yeah....
[speaker001:] Have you switched it off? Good.... Fine I'll sit here and recover....
[Joan:] If Martin walks through that door next I'm
[speaker001:] Are you? Oh don't worry about it.
[Joan:] [LAUGHTER]
[Maggie:] What, you've had him before?
[Joan:] No I've seen what he's done with the others. [LAUGHTER]
[Maggie:] Well that's his job. He's very good.
[speaker001:] Thank you. Do you wanna start Ron?...
[Ron:] Er... of course it's, it's, it's... I think it's more longwinded than er I mean it's the first time you've fully got into it, and it's more longwinded than the fifteen minutes allows you... erm but I, I thought you were doing quite well to be honest. I, I didn't see any... real problems at this stage. Er I mean there was obviously er there was some things that you were er a little bit uncomfortable about but I think you coped quite well. I mean the, the good thing is that you got all the other policies out erm... [tut] on what she's got, on what they've got, the family's got and the summarizing from there I, I thought you did alright.
[speaker001:] Okay. Thank you. No sting in the tail?
[Ron:] No I, seriously I that, that was
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Maggie:] [LAUGHTER] But []
[speaker001:] But, yeah.
[Ron:] No no no I, I mean you know, once, once you, you get used to it all and keep going you're er it'll be a lot er a lot better.
[speaker001:] Right. Joan?...
[Joan:] Erm... I thought you did well to er get all the policy details and the exploration of needs, I thought that was done very well. Erm... I was, I, I thought that, when you covered all the policies you then went through and summarized all the needs and I thought you weren't going to go back and, and er explore further so what you did is you covered all the policies and then you summarized everything and then explored all the needs and s and at one point I thought that you weren't actually going to do that but you did come back and do it, you just did it in a different way.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Joan:] But erm... er so I thought that was er so that was the only thing that I would actually pick up on there erm... and the one thing I noticed this time, and you didn't, I mean this wasn't the case when you did erm the role play this morning, but this time, and I don't know whether it was because you had less confidence with what, with actual talking about the product, but you had very little eye contact with Maggie. Very little. And I don't know whether that was just erm a lack of confidence about the product or, or what, I don't know. I don't know. And erm then er [tut] again I didn't think that you were going to go through the authority needs and, and bit then you, you went through it very quickly but then I, I think it was for wrapping it up for the video not the way that you of usually done it
[speaker001:] That's right.
[Joan:] so and that was all I've got to say.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[Joan:] But very well done, very well....
[speaker001:] Bill?
[Bill:] There was a lot of closed, closed questions, remember that, the actual page lends itself to it er well
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Bill:] are they all identical, that type of situation. I don't know whether it was relevant or not but I would, I'd ask how did you manage to finance these policies, if you're taking one out every two or three years, you know, obviously increment in salary or something of that nature might be relevant so something that the person was conscious of, they were using their money to buy er s er savings plans. Erm it took a long time to get round to it, you know, the, the agreement to the twenty thousand.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Bill:] Now again, if it'd been a full interview you might have death and service benefits and things of that nature which might and then when er I tapped it was obvious that you were [clicks fingers] gonna go for ANNA [LAUGHTER] and you squashed from the second appointment right to the very end... in the space of the two minutes. Which was good from the point of view that you took thirteen minutes to do the first three and then two minutes to do the last, last three. But that's just the nature of the beast... of, of the fact he had fifteen minutes, it's, it's only an observation really....
[speaker001:] Is that it?
[Maggie:] Yeah you
[Bill:] Yeah I'll stop at that.
[speaker001:] Right.
[Maggie:] you did overlook death in service benefits and it is important when you're doing life cover to take
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Maggie:] that into account and you can find grossly over funding.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Maggie:] In actual fact Mr, Mr Goodwin had ninety thousand lump sum benefit under his pension
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Maggie:] which is where you were getting lost between your four hundred thousand and your three hundred thousand.
[speaker001:] Mm. Yeah.
[Maggie:] Which is something you did need to take into account.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[Maggie:] Do watch that cos it's easy to overlook
[Joan:] I never picked that up either.
[speaker004:] and it's something that as a company erm we're very careful of. You've got, I think you got lost and the reason why you, you were getting yourself erm tied up in the figures and why there was less eye contact was because you were getting a little bit lost with those figures at the top of the page.
[speaker001:] Mm. Yeah I was I wasn't happy with that.
[Maggie:] Okay you start off by finding out from the person how much they think they need. Actually I find it easier to put in the mortgage details which is page li er pa line three and any outstanding bills and loans... and then basically find out from the person how much they need on top of that
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Maggie:] when you've taken into account life cover, existing life cover and the preserved benefits you can then calculate the balance, and I think that's where you got lost wasn't it?
[speaker001:] Yes I mean I was very conscious that out of those, the top boxes we, I hadn't got the information
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean I did ask you about the outstanding bills and loans whereas if we'd've been doing the thing properly we'd've gone through that
[Maggie:] You would already know.
[speaker001:] already and, and could've filled some of that in.
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean the other assumption that I didn't make until we were well into the thing was that this, the, the Friends Provident policy is actually the mortgage policy
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] erm, you know, with preparation beforehand I would normally have, have realized that, and anything else would've been on top of it.
[Maggie:] Yeah I think you got yourself lost with the calculations
[speaker001:] Yes. Yeah I did.
[Maggie:] erm and that threw you so that's why less eye contact. When you've been through this a few times you'll
[speaker001:] That's right. Yeah.
[Maggie:] you'll you'll be very comfortable with it and I can tell you now that's one of the things that I got tied up with so
[speaker001:] Yeah
[Maggie:] yeah you
[speaker001:] I left out the referrals altogether as well I know.
[Maggie:] You left out the referrals and you didn't actually arrange the date of the second appointment
[speaker001:] No I I realize that.
[Maggie:] erm but you homed in on the needs and you persisted in finding out from me what I wanted which was good and you checked very carefully on the policies in existence so yeah, considering it's a page which erm can be a bit confusing you did very well.
[speaker001:] Thank you....
[Joan:] And I think it was very well done....
[speaker001:] Flattery will get you everywhere.
[Maggie:] Won't it just. But that, that is a problem. So you do need to look at that page very carefully and I still get tied up sometimes and have to do a few crossings out.
[speaker001:] I think that the, the prob
[Maggie:] That's where you've got the death in service bit at the bottom.
[speaker001:] Yeah. The, the problem that I find in, in, in doing the role plays and I mean they're good what we're doing, but because you're, you're doing bits here and bits there
[Maggie:] You lose continuity.
[speaker001:] there's bits there's bits of i information that either isn't there or you're thinking about from, from previously. But yeah I did, I did ignore the death in service altogether, I, I
[Maggie:] And that is very important. And too often erm you know when you're dealing with, with other companies, cos remember the people you're seeing will be seeing people from other companies, they will overlook it as well whereas if you take it into account they will be impressed.
[Joan:] We're not using the video ma the the video
[speaker001:] So normally I mean
[Maggie:] We're not playing it back.
[Bill:] No no, no I realized that but I just [LAUGHTER] couldn't remember [].
[speaker001:] You, you would go, you would have a certain amount of information already in that
[Maggie:] Well you'd have the, the... line two you'd have the bills and loans outstanding if any
[speaker001:] You've you've already got that.
[Maggie:] and line three you'd have the mortgages
[speaker001:] Mortgages.
[Maggie:] and then you do, then miss that out before you do the total
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Maggie:] and go on to the... the penultimate, how's that, the penultimate line where you've got the cover that exists already
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Maggie:] and you add that together
[speaker001:] That's right.
[Maggie:] and then from that you do your calculations.
[speaker001:] And it's then that you're gonna work out how much you need
[Maggie:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] so you've already established what sort of figure they're
[Maggie:] Well if he says he wa he wants his wife to have twenty thousand a year, I mean you're looking at about two hundred and fifty, three hundred thousand gross
[speaker001:] Yeah. Oh yeah.
[Maggie:] but then you take that off.
[speaker001:] You've got you've got the ninety thousand to come off which I didn't ask about.
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Righto thank you very much.
[Maggie:] I mean I had the information there that you didn't.
[speaker001:] I know. But I was supposed to ask.
[Bill:] Maggie just a, the penultimate line, you've actually to subtract the mortgage back off then?
[Maggie:] Yeah the penultimate line is where you take off the existing policies from the total need and that's what you're left with the, the guy's going to need two hundred thousand pounds to provide his wife with about eighteen, nineteen thousand a year.
[Bill:] Good, good.
[Maggie:] Have you been told what the cheapest... term assurances are in order?
[speaker001:] Decreasing term is the cheapest. Is that right
[Maggie:] Pension term assurance is the cheapest.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah I suppose it is yeah.
[Maggie:] And F I B's the next and then you've got convertible term.
[speaker001:] Mhm although he's, no he wouldn't be able, be able to do er...
[Maggie:] F I B's excellent particularly when there's young children because it provides an income and it's tax free.
[speaker001:] Right. Okay. So on one of these, I shouldn't be looking at that one, that's what threw me cos first of all I didn't know you hadn't got any income and then I turned that over and that was the previous policy where you were a veterinary surgeon with [LAUGHTER] eighteen thousand, I thought I'm sure [] that's not right
[Maggie:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] cos that nineteen hundred comes
[Maggie:] No that's not
[speaker001:] goes in with that one cos I, I was gonna ask you about your income and I thought oh you're not supposed to have any income
[Maggie:] No I've ch I've had a sex change.
[speaker001:] Yes I know.
[Maggie:] I've had a sex change.
[speaker001:] Right but definitely the death in service.
[Maggie:] Yeah and that was how we use it basically
[speaker001:] Oh no what it was was
[Maggie:] you put in the amount of the mortgage, the outstanding bills
[speaker001:] Yeah that's right,
[Maggie:] cos that's one thing they will come back and do later on when they review your C C Q they may ask you to go back and say there was a loan or
[speaker001:] Yeah this, this is your salary coming in.
[Maggie:] an outstanding bill which is two thousand pounds which you haven't covered
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Maggie:] so you add that and the outstanding mortgage
[Bill:] Right can I just ask a wee quick question which is highly personal liability for eight thousand pounds of tax and I'm also a guarantor for my son's mortgage
[Maggie:] So that would go in there.
[speaker001:] Okay
[Maggie:] Basically you're looking to make sure that you've covered any possibility if they die tomorrow where the money would come from for any of those outstanding obligations and then here you put the total what's available, in this case it's the seventy K plus ten K
[speaker001:] That's it.
[Maggie:] there's the ninety thousand which is a hundred and seventy K
[speaker001:] Ah I see.
[Bill:] But, but I, I realize that but would you be happy to use?
[Maggie:] Well it's there isn't it?
[Bill:] That's, that's that's the sixty four thousand dollar question. [LAUGHTER]
[Maggie:] Yeah. I mean basically he's put that into account and then it's how much will they need on top of that... so he total that he would need would be three hundred and seventy thousand pounds of which there is a hundred seventy thousand so the shortfall's twenty thousand, or two hundred thousand.
[Bill:] So that's okay then, that's fine.
[speaker001:] ...
[Maggie:] So eighty thousand
[speaker001:] Yeah no I was just looking to see how you fill that in you see because I, I put
[Maggie:] Well this is the one you
[speaker001:] eight in
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] I put nine, sorry, but then you put the joint money there as well so obviously that is included in that isn't it?
[Maggie:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Yeah right.
[Maggie:] I mean basically, I mean I don't know where she's getting the money from, the wife, but she's putting savings away every year for about two to three grand.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Maggie:] And it may be that that's the way they work, I'm not quite sure what you're supposed to do on this one.
[Bill:] That was that was the other thing when you filled in the C C Q, that's when I filled in my own one, you put in the death marked there, now if you've got something that's twenty years old, five years to go and there's bonuses there
[Maggie:] It depends if it's decreasing term. If it's not decreasing it's still the same lump sum isn't it?
[Bill:] That's right [LAUGHTER]...
[Maggie:] Yes those are.
[Joan:] Robert Robert, excuse me, do you know what the er SSP allowance is?
[Bill:] Statutory sick pay.
[Joan:] Yeah
[Maggie:] Fifty six pound You work on a standard, fifty six pound, two nine one seven
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Maggie:] so it's three quarters of your gross
[Joan:] I said it's two nine one three.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah.
[Maggie:] three quarters of your gross less two nine one seven and that's, and then divide it by fifty two to get your weekly benefit.
[speaker001:] Yes I've got that I jus I wasn't quite sure about the SSP.
[Bill:] No that's, that's the difference
[speaker001:] It's about fifty six pound a week isn't it?
[Maggie:] Fifty six pound ten exactly.
[Bill:] No that's the difference
[Maggie:] I do it so often.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah yeah yeah.
[Bill:] fifty six pounds.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Maggie:] Cos when you get to level two you
[Bill:] just coincidental, that's when you get your two nine one seven the one and two nine one two with the other.
[Maggie:] So that's, and later on when you get to level two you can sometimes do the first and the second
[Joan:] Right.
[Maggie:] but by that time you're experience in the C C Q.
[speaker001:] Yeah right. Right.
[Maggie:] Okay I will go and move on.
[speaker001:] Thanks Maggie.
[Maggie:] Happy hunting.
[speaker001:] Thank you very much.
[Joan:] Thank you.
[Maggie:] Watch me handbag there's a small fortune in there.
[speaker001:] Oh right.
[Maggie:] I, I
[Joan:] Oh we'll take it [LAUGHTER]
[Maggie:] Yeah right. [LAUGHTER]
[Joan:] No we'll wa
[speaker001:] So it's your turn Joan.
[Joan:] we'll watch it.
[speaker001:] Are you number two? You are aren't you? Er Will
[Joan:] No I'm going
[speaker001:] No Joan's number two. Are you?
[Joan:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh sorry. Bill's number three.
[Joan:] I'm just waiting to see whether it's Steven
[speaker001:] Sorry Will.
[Joan:] or Martin who walks through that door.
[speaker001:] Have you put your film in? Ah no but then it'll be Will who gets
[Bill:] Well put it this way
[Joan:] I should, I, I should have Steven shouldn't I? I should have Steven and erm Bill should have M Martin.
[speaker001:] Martin. Then I have Maggie.
[Joan:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Joan:] Yes!...
[speaker001:] Sorry Will.
[Bill:] It's alright.
[speaker001:] Can I give you a bit of... something that we picked up last week that may be of some benefit to you?
[Bill:] What's that?...
[speaker001:] You're doing pensions aren't you?
[Bill:] Mhm.... Mhm.
[speaker001:] we did last week wasn't it?
[Bill:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Remember?......
[Bill:] Mhm....
[speaker001:] Just an idea.
[Bill:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Well I'm glad I did that one with her and not Martin.
[Joan:] Well she'll give you the information won't she? whereas
[speaker001:] Yeah, a bit more receptive.
[Joan:] yes whereas Martin... although it is his job but he does tend to be a little bit more difficult than he needs to be.
[speaker001:] When, when you're asking the questions about the existing policies they've gotta be closed questions
[Bill:] Yeah but don't
[speaker001:] haven't they?
[Bill:] But you know, why did you take these policies out, you know the ten pound, ten pound, ten pound
[Joan:] I wonder if I've got time... oh no I haven't.
[Bill:] I'm, I'm just
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Bill:] as a suggestion Bob.
[Joan:] Okey-dokey.
[Bill:] What made you take them out with three different companies...
[speaker001:] They're all erm... [tut] I B companies as well. That's right.... I didn't mention that though....
[Bill:] I think it's blooming difficult.
[speaker001:] Thank you very much. Was, was there any tea out there that we've missed? Yeah to, to be honest erm Rob you know I, I could see which way you were going and, and the fifteen minutes is, is erm
[Joan:] I thought it was very well done and the only reason
[speaker001:] That's right.
[Joan:] I mean we noticed that with the referrals and everything but it was purely that you hadn't got down to that point to ask for them.
[speaker001:] That's right. Yeah, I, I rushed the last bit
[Joan:] Yeah. So that's purely, I mean and there's no point in picking you up on that because you just hadn't got to that point.
[speaker001:] That's right. And you wouldn't rush it, that last bit, anyway would you? If you'd have had the ti if you'd've been there Oh no, no I wouldn't have rushed through that. you'd've kept going the way you were. Yeah.
[Joan:] You know when you come down to the referrals part of it, what is
[speaker001:] ... [sigh] Go on then, carry on next one. jus just ignore [banging] pretend he's not here, carry on... when you come down to the referrals bit
[Joan:] I thought I was getting Steven....
[Martin:] Erm have I come to the wrong place then? Perhaps you are.
[Joan:] Don't do this to me.
[speaker001:] Well you were only here two gos ago....
[Martin:] Er no
[Joan:] [LAUGHTER] Oh no [].
[Martin:] Step two yeah?...
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Who's next then? Yeah that, no that must, that is right. Yeah. [LAUGHTER]
[Joan:] [LAUGHTER] Oh don't do this to me, not on a Tuesday afternoon [].
[Martin:] So I get you right Joan?
[Joan:] Pardon?
[Martin:] Have I got you now?
[Joan:] [LAUGHTER] You certainly have [].
[speaker001:] Good. [LAUGHTER] Joan feels like that as well.... Mm?
[Bill:] You've put the video in have you?
[speaker001:] Joan's put the video in I think, have you Joan?
[Joan:] I was because I was all ready for Steven actually.
[speaker001:] star.
[Martin:] Pretend I am. I'm just not quite the same build and better looking.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]