[speaker001:] Oh no, but if we start banging on here isn't it going to reverberate?
[speaker002:] That's in case, there's an awful lot of table banging in this meeting! [LAUGHTER] I mean, would you assume Jeremy we're going to be Corpusized?
[speaker003:] Yeah, you're going to be corpusized, yes.
[speaker002:] I don't say very much anyway.
[speaker003:] It is. It's actually going to go in the special category of peripheral material.
[speaker002:] What do you mean peripheral? Flipping heck. I don't mind being recorded, but I don't want to be made peripheral.
[speaker003:] The Oxford Rob Maidment corpus.
[speaker001:] Oh, nice pen! Where did you get that?
[speaker003:] Well, good afternoon then folks, and welcome to the Electronic Publishing Group meeting!
[speaker002:] You don't have to hammer it out just because we're being recorded Jeremy! [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Just cracked my knuckles rather as well.
[speaker003:] Let's press on quickly because I'm sure we've all got plenty of other things to get on, with apologies for absence. I have apologies from Vicki Whadcoat, who apparently is in Paris licking stamps for a week. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] That's a joke though
[speaker003:] Any other apologies. erm I don't know anything about the publicity people, but I thought that had been decided at the, is that right? Are we expecting them?
[speaker002:] We would have expected them at the beginning, and as we are still at the beginning, they ought to be here.
[speaker003:] Perhaps we should.
[speaker004:] Should we give them a ring?
[speaker001:] It's on there.
[speaker005:] It's Cathy really, isn't it, and Paul
[speaker002:] Paul, yes, Give Paul a call.
[speaker004:] Why's his number been scratched off here?
[speaker001:] He's probably been down here already and scratched his number off.
[speaker003:] Well, when they turn up we'll
[speaker004:] Cathy, hi, it's Tim here. We're down in I37 having our group meeting
[speaker003:] Anyone not got one of these?
[speaker004:] Is Paul there too. Could you come down? We're just making sure. Okay, leave a message with him. Okay, see you in a couple of minutes. Okay. Cheers.
[speaker002:] What about Paul?
[speaker004:] Paul's in a meeting, but she's going to try and pick him up on the way, or leave a note for him to follow on.
[speaker003:] Shall we press on anyway with the minutes of the last meeting?
[speaker001:] Yes
[speaker002:] Can I make a suggestion. Well, it crossed my mind that actually a few of the headings here are actually duplicated by the Video Work in Progress meeting, so whether we want to cover them again in this meeting I don't know, because we had a meeting yesterday which covered some of these things and their minutes are then available.
[speaker003:] Absolutely, yes, I mean, I followed an entirely erm conventional format for the agenda here, I mean we, do we have a, all I was thinking of doing was checking whether these minutes are a true representation of last week, and if they are, we'll press on to matters arising, yes? And if there are few matters arising, it's all to the good.
[speaker005:] I think on those Work in Progress meetings, I think you ought to circulate those, the minutes of those meetings, to the whole group, it would be helpful.
[speaker002:] Good, yes.
[speaker005:] Circulate it from the, I haven't, I'm afraid I haven't had any.
[speaker002:] They've been done, have they, they haven't been circulated, but they're available. But if everybody would like them?
[speaker005:] Who would like them?
[speaker004:] Well, I get them.
[speaker005:] Well, four of us, sorry, five of us, certainly need them.
[speaker002:] These three don't.
[speaker005:] Probably you don't want to.
[speaker003:] Well, I wouldn't mind a copy.
[speaker001:] Scrap paper!
[speaker003:] Who actually sits in on these video meetings.
[speaker001:] These four.
[speaker002:] Plus Vicki.
[speaker005:] I don't sit in on the general meeting, no.
[speaker002:] You're very welcome.
[speaker005:] You don't tell me when they are, so how can I? [LAUGHTER] I thought it was all a plot!
[speaker002:] We never know when they are either! A buzzer rings and we have a meeting.
[speaker003:] So, erm Rob is to inform Simon of these video group meetings, and is to circulate minutes to those present, and Simon if he's not present, and if he is then he gets them anyway, and to Peter who probably won't be present, but will get the minutes.
[speaker006:] They probably ought to go to Paul Ralph.
[speaker005:] Yes, they should.
[speaker003:] And Paul Ralph in publicity.
[speaker001:] Well, basically everyone that's present at these meetings should get our Work in Progress meeting minutes.
[speaker005:] Except Jeremy and Caroline, who are not really that interested
[speaker003:] Okay, well, we can always choose not to read them!
[speaker002:] You can borrow mine.
[speaker005:] Why not circulate them to the whole group.
[speaker003:] Circulate them to the whole group, right. Does that deal with your little point? Are there any other pressing matters arising from these things that we should deal with in these minutes. Anything pressing? Matters arising? What have we got?
[speaker002:] There is one matter that I would like to add
[speaker003:] Yes
[speaker002:] Just the handling of equipment, and the new video equipment being delivered, and the hope that the division will invest in its own equipment, erm maybe it's just a question really, don't know if people here could help to answer it, but erm the more video equipment we have the more problems we have actually with erm just keeping it all up together, keeping it all working, and it is a constant problem with stuff being borrowed and coming back with bits missing or bits not functioning, mostly leads. erm There's all different types of leads required now. erm In other areas erm of the press there are people who actually maintain equipment. Because, I S for example look after you know, whatever they look after. We're sort of outside of that area so I don't know what we do about our video equipment, but I think it would be beneficial if there were somebody we could call on to sort out problems for us, who actually understood all the stuff. That's the other problem, it's getting so complicated that I don't understand half of it myself.
[speaker006:] You want a service engineer? That sort of thing? Not so much that?
[speaker003:] Technician, technician.
[speaker002:] I mean there ought to be someone who can make a lead for us in house, that sort of thing, which we don't have at the moment, because we've got things like complicated split leads for rigging up two monitors, and we've had those twice we've had those made, outside, but they only need to get sort of broken, and we're back to square one.
[speaker005:] One wouldn't employ a technician
[speaker002:] We wouldn't employ one.
[speaker006:] I can make leads, I mean, if you have to do it, if I had a spare moment
[speaker002:] No, no. That's the point, I mean I could do it. It's the spare moment point. And also, but half the time it's the problem arises because it's, the machines gone to personnel without something, and then we've got to spend time either chasing it up or getting another bit or going round in circles.
[speaker001:] It also it is a fact that the people that you do tend to lend the equipment out to take it for granted that you are also a highly qualified video sort of technician and if anything goes wrong, they ring you up and say 'What plug goes where, and why isn't this working'and why should you if you're working run down to some conference in the John Hall Room and try and sort out something for these people.
[speaker005:] You shouldn't.
[speaker001:] No, we don't!
[speaker005:] But I think we're making life worse for ourselves, unnecessarily unpleasant for ourselves. This morning I had to connect up a video for Caroline to use and all the leads, every single lead we've got, to connect any machine to any machine, were all bundled in like a load missing, and it took me what, five minutes to find the right leads and connect the machines up. If we would just organise those leads once and for all, and essentially, erm the leads belong to the video recorders rather than the monitors, and if those somehow were attached, if we could at least tie them together or whatever
[speaker001:] They need labelling.
[speaker005:] Yes, okay, label them, and were actually kept with the video recorders, that would be immensely helpful. I mean that problem with leads is actually hopeless.
[speaker006:] Isn't this compounded by the storage problem, bits are everywhere. I mean if you had some sort of central area to put things in.
[speaker005:] Well, we have one central area to put these things in, and it's called a small black samsonite bag, and they just get, it's just hopeless
[speaker006:] If you could have somewhere you could obviously hang them, like leads on for instance.
[speaker001:] That's what I started to do
[speaker002:] That comes down to the same problem, that actually
[speaker001:] It's once you start giving them out, that's what causes the problem.
[speaker005:] I think we could organise ourselves just a little bit better, erm
[speaker002:] Bringing it back to my point, though, there are people, if you have a typewriter, you don't have to know how to work the typewriter, erm it seems to me, that we're actually, the more we do, we make matters worse for ourselves. And we are called upon, as Astrid says, to sort of, you know 'this isn't working, can you fix it, because you know how it works' , and that's fair enough, but I'm not called on by somebody in the press to fix a typewriter. erm So, my question really is, is there anybody who can help us. Could I S look after our machines. Could I S be responsible for our stuff?
[speaker007:] Can I just see who wants tea and who wants coffee? Thank you, how many coffees? One, two, three, four. Tea? You want tea? Two teas.
[speaker003:] Phil wants tea, but he's not going to indicate it. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] I don't know, I very much doubt it, I think it's unlikely.
[speaker003:] Would we actually want that? I mean, it's not a great, from a computing point of view, it's not great having some erm you know vast faceless organisation which is going to make sure everything's alright, because it means that when something goes wrong, it takes weeks and weeks and weeks to get it sorted out, because you have to fill in a form in triplicate, get it signed
[speaker002:] mhm And they have to buy everything for you, and it takes ages doesn't it. Okay, there's just
[speaker003:] So there is, I feel there's a great merit in having your own kit, which you sort out. erm My inclination would be to those people who phone up and say 'look, I borrowed your kit and I can't work out whether the red plug goes in the blue hole'or whatever, to say, 'Well, tough'you know
[speaker002:] Well, in that case I think it's fine as long as it's our equipment, but I think the problems always arise from it being lent out, and that's where I you know, I don't think we should have to sort out other people's problems. erm I mean, I really do feel that at least as far as the division's concerned, there ought to be a separate set of equipment that is mobile.
[speaker005:] I'll take that up again with Peter, but erm and see if we can get that to happen. But if that then goes wrong, who's going to be called upon to to put that right?
[speaker001:] Well, that's their problem
[speaker002:] Well, you know, you call Mr Radio Rentals, don't you or whoever, you have to handle that separately, and that's, you know, we can say 'sorry, we can't do it'. Because at the moment, it's, I mean I agree, I think we ought to sort out our own bit and look after our own leads, we should be able to do that, but
[speaker005:] But we don't
[speaker002:] Okay, we don't, but we do get them all tangled up by other people taking them away, and not bringing them back, and then we don't know what we've got, you know.
[speaker003:] So there's two issues, erm alright, I'm thinking, are there two issues? There's the kind of repair and maintenance bit, which really could be handled at a more divisional level.
[speaker005:] The repair and maintenance bit is actually dealt with by by sending it out to to to Absolute Sound and Video or whoever.
[speaker003:] mhm
[speaker005:] It hasn't been passed properly.
[speaker003:] Then there's the lending it out problem, where presumably people say 'can I borrow this stuff'and they just sort of walk off with it and you don't know whether you've got it all back, and you find a few weeks later there's a lead missing.
[speaker005:] mhm
[speaker003:] erm that sounds like, you know, our own housekeeping problems.
[speaker008:] I think if we had a if we if we tried, as you say, labelled the leads and tried to keep the leads together with the video recorders and perhaps stick a think on the video recorder saying which leads belong to this particular thing then the problem would be 'cos this would provide you with a checklist whenever you lent it out as to whether it was coming back, or provide the leads in other words Who wants tea?
[speaker009:] Coffee please
[speaker008:] Sugar?
[speaker002:] with something to check against as well. So have a checklist. It would be very easy to stick a sticky label on the video recorder with a list leads with go with it.
[speaker008:] Caroline?
[speaker010:] Okay.
[speaker001:] I agree with you a hundred percent we should try to overcome the problem of lending of that... overcome the problems... overcome the problems that evolve
[speaker008:] Sugar?
[speaker001:] from our and I would continue to press for that.
[speaker002:] Yes. mhm That's the main problem.
[speaker003:] Then there's also the problem where that stuff is stored.
[speaker002:] mhm
[speaker003:] I think it will get better when we move.
[speaker004:] Well I mean you could have... you could have one in here. You could have one area as integral machines and things
[speaker008:] Do you want anything?
[speaker004:] erm No, I'm okay, thanks.
[speaker008:] Right. Okay.
[speaker004:] We could
[speaker005:] I've got a filing cabinet that's sat in my little corner which is empty, just a big tin box that's got little keys, I mean, but it's not ideally situated at the moment. Whether it could, you know, whether it could be moved erm
[speaker006:] cupboard, but there's just nowhere.
[speaker007:] Right, anything else that's erm needs raising out of the last meeting?
[speaker003:] Corpus update. Quite a lot's happened actually since this last meeting. In summary, Collins have pulled out of participation in the National Corpus Project and Longman have given a commitment to participate in the National Corpus Project, which leaves us having submitted a proposal... a revised proposal to the D T I, erm fully documenting Longman's contribution, erm but leaving O U P's role and financial contribution to the project open in anticipation that there is likely to be some rearrangements amongst the industrial partners, that is there may be a reallocation of funding between Longman and O U P and maybe the addition of new partners erm or it may just stay as it is erm. We submitted that to the D T I, what two weeks ago? Ten days ago, something like that? Two weeks ago erm and we've had no feedback at all from the D T I yet erm
[speaker008:] Have the acknowledged it?
[speaker003:] I don't think I know.
[speaker008:] Well we know they've got it?
[speaker003:] Yeah, we know they've got it, but they haven't said anything. erm
[speaker009:] That's it really.
[speaker003:] That's about it actually [LAUGHTER]. Yes.
[speaker010:] Why did Collins pull out? It's interesting or relevant to know.
[speaker003:] erm because... basically the answer was because it meant finding erm... making some new cash contribution to a hundred million word National Corpus for the nation, rather than, as it were, 'selling it'in inverted commas, the Corpus material which Collins, through the Birmingham University already have at their disposal, and the gap between the material that they could contribute to the project in kind and the erm role we wanted them to play just wasn't compatible.
[speaker010:] We're told it's a very close thing, the decision not to participate erm and there were certain technical and theoretical reasons, I think, that led them to come down on the side of not.... Basically there are two academics in this country who consider themselves the countries expert in the singular on Corpus building and they are at different ends of the spectrum. And one is in our consortium, the other is not. Interesting that one has the Collins and Longmans [LAUGHTER]. That said, the the Collins link was actually quite sad come to pass.
[speaker001:] Anything else.
[speaker002:] Can I just erm make one point. The minute here on sales 'rjm presented a summary of the sales figures for the last financial year and the of the titles. It was decided that we should look at these in more depth'. erm Is that... did we decide to look at those in more depth? I thought I actually gave all the sales figures we have. We don't have any more information on sales for last year, do we?
[speaker003:] I'm not erm not a
[speaker004:] I think we... you decided to look at the erm way it was presented in more depth, as opposed to the
[speaker005:] We were going to actually analyze the
[speaker006:] suggestions
[speaker007:] We keep finding out why certain things erm certain things don't tally.
[speaker002:] Oh, I see, yah, that's a different issue. I see, that wasn't very erm
[speaker008:] It was felt that if we had that information available that it might be worthwhile exercise to carry out some analysis of erm time was given or
[speaker009:] It's relevant perhaps to report hereof that John Dennis has done a very useful spreadsheet of erm video profitability on a erm video by video basis, which we have actually a sort of profit and loss account for every year it was produced, and that is going to become a quarterly erm document which we can look at erm and that that's very useful to to... and we did actually... at our meeting discussing that yesterday we decided that we were going to erm try to break down erm the sales of that into title by market, didn't we?
[speaker010:] mhm, yes, mhm.
[speaker009:] John Dennis is going to prepare this spreadsheet erm on a... every quarter. The one that he's done so far was at the end of December and erm he is going to do one to the end of March and that's going to be a regular thing.
[speaker001:] Does that reassure you on that one, or do you still think you were being asked to do something?
[speaker002:] No, it's all right, I didn't mean... I'm not worried about it. I didn't make much sense to me and I wasn't sure what we decided to do and erm you know I think it's slightly inaccurate, but never mind. Simon, you particularly wanted to raise the issue of job descriptions.
[speaker003:] erm take publicity first?
[speaker002:] Yes, yes, we should because we're very grateful.
[speaker008:] Because the job descriptions were to us as a department. erm We've had the two concept meetings for on track and great way too and basically I'm going to do copy by tomorrow and then next week we can look at them, look at the copy, for both on track and and the stock dates that I've got are the twenty first of August for both of them.
[speaker009:] mhm.
[speaker008:] So they should be in.
[speaker009:] Right.
[speaker001:] What was that date?
[speaker008:] Twenty first of August.
[speaker001:] We've also got the leaflet for the satellite broadcasts, haven't we?
[speaker008:] Yes. That's going to be circulated.
[speaker001:] How are we going to do this — at fifty thousand?
[speaker008:] Yeah, I think in the end it was fifty thousand that we did, which is going to go out with all the mailings over the next few weeks.
[speaker001:] mhm.
[speaker002:] Is that... is that in time? I mean... I've got... is that any good because
[speaker001:] mhm.
[speaker002:] it's gone out
[speaker001:] I... I don't think that's a problem because we're doing erm we're doing two blocks of six and we're onto the fourth of the first block now, but then the second block comes up in September and October, so it's certainly in time for that. I think we had to accept that the first programmes were just to get the whole thing working really erm. We are publicized anyway by Eurostep and they do quite a lot of publicity — how effective their publicity is I don't know, but we... our publicity is as a back up to existing publicity.
[speaker002:] Eurostep?
[speaker001:] Eurostep — S T E P — Eurostep [LAUGHTER] erm so erm I think it's okay.
[speaker003:] It's worth mentioning that I asked a lot of people in Spain, when I was there, at the Spanish you know what they knew about it, and nobody did.
[speaker004:] mhm.
[speaker003:] I got absolutely zero response.
[speaker004:] mhm mhm. Yes erm one of the questions which we haven't addressed on our leaflet is well actually, what, you know, how do you receive this programme erm and you do need special equipment erm Eurostep
[speaker006:] You need a television, yeah, but you need a special... special dish erm in Eurostep's own publicity — I looked at this and they say the programme is available with, you know, sort of cheap and readily available sort of satellite dishes. They don't specify what they are erm which is... is is not terribly helpful erm basically
[speaker008:] People don't know when they can get it or not.
[speaker006:] mhm no. And you've got to be pretty enthusiastic to get it. I mean people are receiving the programme. There are dishes around. But at the moment I would say that if there are a hundred people receiving the programme across all of Europe that'd be pretty impressive. I'd be quite pleased with that.
[speaker007:] A hundred?
[speaker006:] A hundred.
[speaker007:] A whole hundred?
[speaker006:] A whole hundred. I mean if there were... if there were.
[speaker008:] If there were.
[speaker006:] If there were — it's probably two people.
[speaker008:] Do they have any idea of... can they monitor at all who gets it?
[speaker006:] erm they ought... they ought to be finding out. I mean they ought... it would be easy to monitor because it is so... it's so concise. It's not like trying to find out who watches Coronation Street, because it's so specialized.
[speaker008:] mhm.
[speaker006:] But they're, you know, they're a funny organization and lot of...
[speaker007:] Isn't this part of Van der Plank's
[speaker006:] Well Van
[speaker007:] Consultancy for the British Council? Yes, it's... it's... he is supposed to be finding out whose whose whose getting the British Council Programme, but the Eurostep people to know... ought to have a pretty good idea of all the Eurostep receivers.
[speaker008:] Is it the same satellite as Rupert Murdoch's establishment?
[speaker007:] No, no. No it's not, it's erm Oh yes, different. I mean the whole point of this really is to
[speaker009:] Rupert Murdoch's only got eight of the... however many channels.
[speaker007:] Oh right, no it's Olympus and it's erm... why we're doing this is partly because the European Space Agency is trying to encourage people who weren't previously satellite users to become satellite users and in the next century, or whenever, [LAUGHTER] erm to to actually buy commercial satellite time for... from them. erm So that's why all this is happening.
[speaker010:] Should we have
[speaker001:] Many apologies.
[speaker002:] Back to Publicity Department.
[speaker003:] So that that... the leaflet's going to be going out in a mega mailing.
[speaker008:] Yes, there's Spain, Italy, France,.
[speaker004:] Spain alone is twenty four thousand.
[speaker008:] Twenty four thousand. Yes.
[speaker004:] Italy's university. France is.
[speaker005:] It's probably true to say, isn't it, that anybody who's going to be picking this up are going to be in the school system rather than in the private school system?
[speaker006:] I would have thought more of the state institutions really.
[speaker007:] It doesn't Part of the reason for doing it is is we can actually say we did it, so we can tell people despite the fact that they get the programme.
[speaker009:] The reason we did those mailings is because of the warning that we had they were the only mailings available by the way.
[speaker007:] Right.
[speaker009:] You wanted it to go out in the summer
[speaker007:] Yes.
[speaker009:] but the current set of transmissions have now switched to September and really, apart from these next mailings are in September so
[speaker007:] mhm.
[speaker009:] that's the reason they went out with those particular mailings, not through any great process of choice.
[speaker010:] Anything else to say with publicity that's erm
[speaker004:] We've erm completed the grape vine sample cassette now,, so that should be available in the next two or three weeks distribution.
[speaker001:] Just the sort of highlights, tasters?
[speaker004:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Is that going to be... are there going to be any other promotional cassettes in the pipeline in the next
[speaker002:] In the next?— this year?
[speaker001:] I should imagine that's probably it for a little while, isn't it?
[speaker002:] There ought to be one for project video erm we can't do that until we can show a book.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] We at least need a book cover. We really need some sample pages. So we wouldn't be able to do that until the autumn, would we? We're not going to have cover page proofs until November.
[speaker003:] A great design form this. Another press third of October.
[speaker008:] When?
[speaker003:] Third of October.
[speaker008:] Third of October, yah.
[speaker009:] But we couldn't put that together until erm
[speaker001:] No, I mean the only reason I ask is if we do a mailing of a particular thing, then very often the the offer that the market can make, or one of them, is, you know, to see a specimen cassette
[speaker002:] mhm.
[speaker001:] But as far as I can see we are more or less covered. We had problems that last year with bits of this assignment until the mailing went out and then, you know, the video cassette, the specimen cassette was available but perhaps if it had been a couple of weeks earlier it would have been better.
[speaker002:] mhm.
[speaker001:] But I think we're covered there because we've got grape vine, which people would probably work on a new leaflet and the specimen cassette's going to be ready before the leaflet, and then project English new leaflet December, so if you are aiming to produce, if you do so, a new project English specimen cassette for next spring then
[speaker002:] mhm.
[speaker001:] that would tie in with any, you know, immediate use of the market.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker003:] Are the systems in the this ourselves now on the responsibility of the sample videos that are now running smoothly. Do we know who's paying for what and
[speaker004:] Yes. Publicity pays and gets the money back from the markets.
[speaker005:] What we haven't actually started doing yet is getting the money [LAUGHTER] back. But I think possibly what I might do is try and make this grape vine one the first one where we actually do do it properly.
[speaker006:] That'll be a major achievement when that is all sorted out.
[speaker007:] Can't you send them a bill for all the ones they've had in the past?
[speaker008:] mhm. Backdate them. With inflation. A nice little earner for you, won't it?
[speaker009:] Yes. Yes. One way of making a profit. Yes, [LAUGHTER]. If I disappear to the Bahamas for a holiday... [LAUGHTER].
[speaker010:] An interesting press for you. If you actually charge for your publishing journal.
[speaker001:] The is to charge authors to go on tour [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] I didn't say that [LAUGHTER].
[speaker003:] That's a different Dave Stewart, not the one who works here.
[speaker004:] David O. Stewart [LAUGHTER].
[speaker005:] That's the guitarist in the Eurythmics.
[speaker006:] Have you discuss with the David Stewart the business of compilation of programmes?
[speaker007:] No, haven't seen him. He hasn't been around I don't think since Yes. Well that seems to have sorted itself out, actually. He seems to have erm fallen in line, doesn't he?
[speaker009:] I suppose so. I got one memo
[speaker007:] mhm.
[speaker009:] Which then... was a copy to your memo answer you...
[speaker007:] mhm. mhm.
[speaker009:] But
[speaker007:] I'll check that again, but I think it's... I think it's all right now. 'Cos, yes, I did write... I have written to him. mhm. mhm.
[speaker010:] Are we having we have to vote here? Anything else needs to be. Anything you need to raise with us?
[speaker004:] No, I don't think so. I mean the main thing is these new leaflets really
[speaker010:] mhm.
[speaker004:] getting them produced, checked
[speaker010:] You're happy about that?
[speaker004:] Yes.
[speaker010:] Great. Thanks very much indeed then.
[speaker004:] Great. Thanks very much. Sorry I was late.
[speaker010:] It's all right, we held over.
[speaker004:] It's a privilege to have you, even for a short while! [LAUGHTER]
[speaker010:] Do drop it on one of our publicity schedules [LAUGHTER]. Cheers. Thanks a lot. 'Bye.
[speaker004:] 'Bye.
[speaker001:] Right erm Simon, can we get to work.
[speaker008:] mhm.
[speaker001:] You've all been... and this is really addressed to to H O H members, not to erm delegates group or whatever we call ourselves erm everyone's been to a erm job evaluation H O H A discussion, right?
[speaker002:] Astrid hasn't.
[speaker001:] has not. erm one or two not giving that much with us.
[speaker002:] That's one of... that's the reason. Yes.
[speaker001:] But everybody else has been. Yes, yes, yes. erm and Phil is a job
[speaker002:] Am I? I'm being trained tomorrow, so I don't know what I am yet 'til I get my
[speaker001:] Are you an analyst or a
[speaker008:] A job commandant?
[speaker002:] Panellist.
[speaker001:] Panellist, yes that's right.
[speaker008:] That sounds jolly.
[speaker002:] Not an analyst, but a panellist [LAUGHTER].
[speaker008:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] When, when erm Phil has had is training tomorrow, he will become an expert amongst us and will erm put my rather partial knowledge into the... into the shade, but basically what I've got here is a blank form for everybody to fill in — a job description questionnaire — together with job description guide notes, which should go together. You obviously haven't had time to to look at these, and I just wanted to say one or two things
[speaker008:] Can I have a look anyway.
[speaker003:] Starting from now [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] erm Basically erm there are various ways in which one can actually put together the job description. I think, I mean, one way is for editors with similar jobs to get together and do a generic one erm but there's only one editor amongst us so you have no-one together with unless you want to find somebody in another group, but I don't think it's going to really serve very much purpose.
[speaker008:] No.
[speaker001:] erm I think really what erm... what should happen is that erm you, with your manager, ought to to to look at the the erm... to establish and agreed job description and in addition to the notes that are are are there erm I have some sample job descriptions from other parts of the Press which have been completed as a framework job and erm we can discuss that in any kind of detail you want. But it really doesn't matter how we... who does the job description erm whether it's you, or whether it's me or your manager, but it has to be agreed erm by both parties. erm There are job analysts who will help you, in addition to erm the kind of help informally that that erm that Phil could could offer once he's had his training. As a job panellist, you're actually in the business of assessing job descriptions, rather than presenting them, right?
[speaker009:] mhm.
[speaker001:] The job analysts are in the position of actually making sure that a job description is filled in correctly before it goes to to to the jury on which Phil sits. The job analysts within E L T, are Neil Butterfield, John Dennis, Anne and Claire Nichol, and they are, in fact, if you like, a sort of second or... I mean you can go to them to get advice about how to fill in the job description rather than go to your manager, or if if if you have some dispute or disagreement or whatever the job analysts can can can help in that. It really is a question of the job analysts being expert. They've had additional training in in erm filling in correctly the the the form and will pick up erm for example on the erm the principal accountabilities — every accountability should have three parts, it should be an action verb to help, or to do, or to ensure, or whatever and it should be what it is you're doing and thirdly it ought to have some sort of erm target in in in doing it. You've got to have a list of words there. A list of words [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] Read them out for the tape recorder.
[speaker001:] And erm so it's a
[speaker003:] A quick Corpus check on these [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] So a typical accountability will read something like 'to erm help decide erm publishing policy in order that something should be achieved', so it has those those those three parts to it. It's that kind of formality within the job description that that that will be the area where the job analysts, i.e. Butterfield, Dennis and Nichol, will be able to help with. Essentially you'll that erm the the analysts are erm hand on, uhm, 'both managers a such should be encouraged to consult the various directors and put some forethought into the sort of accessibilities, sorry accountabilities, that characterize a certain sort of job'so although they are not all directors, Neil is is is... will be our editorial expert in this. John Temple will be design expert in this erm Malcolm Price obviously production and Dave Stewart for sales and Loretta for secretaries erm and they have had a deal more training and briefing on the whole process. erm When the the the job description is signed it ought to be passed by a job analyst just to make sure... to check the things that erm... it has been done properly and then it has to be signed by the erm job holder, the job holder's manager and the head of division, and it has to be got to personnel. All job descriptions have got to be done not later than the twenty ninth of June. So you've got just a month to do it in.
[speaker004:] Whew. This is exactly the same as the the existing A form isn't it?
[speaker001:] I haven't checked it erm I may be wrong, but I would imagine it is very similar indeed.
[speaker004:] Yes.
[speaker001:] If not identical.
[speaker004:] Yes. Hay fever.
[speaker001:] Okay? Anything else on that? There are framework jobs and erm I've got a list of all the framework jobs that are in our area, in fact they are radical suppressive. So, for example, editorial — senior editor is Sally Wehmeiher or Cathy. They've been taken as typical of the senior editors and right across... every function area is is covered by that and I've got erm sample job descriptions for all the editorial levels and I can get them for any other secretarial levels or design and I can acquire those if you want to see what has been done in terms of trying to draw up a framework, you know, that kind of thing. It won't work with some of us because they are unique jobs within the Press. Okay? Probably what the best thing to do is for for for managers to to to to sit... when Vicky comes back I'll fill in for anyone who reports to me. I'll get a sort of programme, preliminary discussion, a one to one discussion, with anyone who reports to me, and then schedule a sort of follow up session on that later.
[speaker005:] Called lucky bastard [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Jeremy will be doing Caroline's and you won't be doing
[speaker006:] No [LAUGHTER]. Whew.
[speaker008:] It might
[speaker007:] No you won't [LAUGHTER].
[speaker008:] Thank you, Simon. Any questions on that.
[speaker009:] I am very happy, in fact, that the whole... the whole process... the whole business of erm switching the system has been accepted and in fact even welcomed I think by the unions. Good news.
[speaker010:] Thank you.
[speaker001:] Can we hang on to these?
[speaker002:] Yes of course. Yes.
[speaker004:] Fine, yah, we'll while away the odd moment.
[speaker005:] And on to any other business. Any other business? Please?
[speaker006:] I've got a couple of things I'd really like to mention if no-one else has got anything.
[speaker005:] We seem to have a dearth of erm, so let's go straight into Simon's other business.
[speaker007:] July conference — the area manager's conference. We've got two sessions planned erm and I would like to... Rob that you and I ought to meet and talk about how we're going to handle that session in some detail and the videos.
[speaker008:] Yes, we in the next two weeks.
[speaker007:] Before you get stuck into the
[speaker008:] Yes, because it comes straight after.
[speaker009:] Well could you take responsibility for actually sort of sitting down with me sometime so we can have a meeting to talk that through?
[speaker008:] mhm.
[speaker009:] And, Tim, you and I ought to have a... we're not actually going to have a formal session on self-study, but we have another... we have a rather loosely structured session when we can bring up any other matters for erm... basically that they'll want to plan the video session rather carefully as well basically I think we want to follow in on yesterday's meeting — we want to find out why we're not selling more videos basically and use the whole of that session if necessary for exploring with the area managers why we're not doing twice or three times as well as we are.
[speaker008:] mhm.
[speaker010:] So, that's that. Holidays. Another message from our leader here erm Mr. Mothersole. Interestingly he's talking about — this is written on the third of May, talking about the present splendid weather, which is, plus the recent report that too many British industrialists are making themselves ill because they don't take their holidays has prompted me to write to you about our holidays.
[speaker004:] Are we all going together [LAUGHTER]?
[speaker001:] Not.
[speaker010:] His view is as follows and then — this is the longest memo Peter's ever written. Basically he is against carrying your holiday over, essentially. 'Staff in your division should be encouraged to take their full holiday entitlement. It is the managers' job to help staff plan their holiday entitlement appropriately to ensure that the workload is. Quite simply our success does not depend on anyone missing their summer holidays. Staff should be discouraged from carrying over anything more than a few holidays... a few days holiday from one year to the next, unless it's for specific purposes, such as climbing, catching dingo or visiting Aunty Mabel in New Zealand. Carrying over two weeks worth of holiday from one year to another is not an adequate substitute for a 'proper holiday'.'So basically Peter wants to
[speaker002:] Not even proper [LAUGHTER].
[speaker010:] erm Peter wants to tighten up on on on the business of erm carrying holidays over and I think he's right, actually, erm and he also is using this opportunity to try to et us to plan our holidays as a group so that we're not all off at the same time, or if it's appropriate we should all be off a the same time then we're off at the same time, but it's erm... common sense should prevail one way or another, but it would be a good idea if you could let me have erm a brief indication of any major times you plan to be away. The odd day here and there is not important, but if you could let me know within the next couple of weeks or so when you intend to take a major part of your holiday away — if you know — I don't myself know erm yet — but if you do know then I can have a look at the overall picture and see that we're not all dispersed. When you're... if you're both on a shoot and that's a holiday in itself, so presumably that's [LAUGHTER]
[speaker008:] I think you should take that back right now, I might [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Can you say that to the microphone. I missed it. I would have thought that we might go on holiday, well going on quite a long holiday, we're going on holiday after the project video's completed, so it'll be Christmas for me...
[speaker010:] Okay. Just just just — if you could just... if you could let me know, say within the next fortnight, if you know that is.
[speaker008:] You should see a memo from me about two weeks in September.
[speaker009:] Are you going to New Zealand, or
[speaker008:] Visit your Aunty Mabel? [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Okay
[speaker002:] Is anybody going away?
[speaker003:] Complain about the time it takes for the Beano to reach me [LAUGHTER]. Its the twelfth of May and it hasn't got to me.