[speaker001:] Well, what worked well? Er, giving people specific jobs, like, combining one.
[speaker002:] Right, how did you do yours? Your group?
[speaker001:] Well we decided, decided what we w, what the object was, and then, we got into a position that certain cards so, the cards were split between u, the two of us, so we aimed it in different directions.
[speaker002:] So you divided into two teams?
[speaker001:] Yes, and then we decided to pick them up, played back.
[speaker002:] Right, okay, anybody else can add anything that they felt worked well?
[speaker001:] We decided to dip into, and pick one each.
[speaker002:] yes, the same, the same thing there. What went badly?
[speaker001:] I got one from Mars I think. Then I went back in and did it again.
[speaker002:] What you made, made a mistake.
[speaker001:] In er,, you know, we only reversed when we got to the bottom of that last machine, and why had the guy back, erm, went over it, and go through it again, luckily it was only three high.
[speaker002:] So you had, would anybody of, if they were going to do it again, do it differently?
[speaker001:] No, oh yes, nick all the cards and played myself on the tune
[speaker002:] Yes,
[speaker001:] When we did all work together, all the different pieces worked together, and you could just have a card each and you could have just done it that way. But when you've got forty three, they'll just taking ground anywhere.
[speaker002:] Could you be fighting basically to see what was what.
[speaker001:] If you can relate back to branches, everybody was just running around, everybody's had a specific task to do, you were just running round like a, We could have just collected all the cards up, put them in the middle of the car park and all just stood over them. It worked quite well, Speak for yourself, I know I have to look at it, I
[speaker002:] I noticed, er, I felt three of the groups had somebody centrally who, who was being fed information all the time. I mean, er, in terms of planning what, what did you say at the beginning? What did you, what did your group talk about at the very beginning?
[speaker001:] Whether all the cards were running off. The changes, we split up so Yes we did, we sort of divided the team up Good idea
[speaker002:] So what, what did he?
[speaker001:] , three cards each, right so we chose three to look at. Yes, so you divided it up like that
[speaker002:] And what, what was your idea Jane for your team?
[speaker001:] Because the, there's two different ones to do, so we split it and two did one, and the other two did the other. So you wasn't like four, five year old in a bed, trying to work it out. It just seemed pointless to do, do what all the, the way down the morning and then after do all the way down the other end.
[speaker002:] Mm, did anybody do one and then do the next one?
[speaker001:] We did
[speaker002:] Yes, did you find that hindered you at all?
[speaker001:] No I can't say we was hindered through the, We came, we came first, excuse me [LAUGHTER] That why our team did the same as you. Ou, Ou, Our system worked okay for us. We were finished about five minutes before We didn't bother about it much, we've had one member as being two or three of the latest.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] To share our information.
[speaker002:] So it was kind of energy conservation, yes
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] It's space more than anything.
[speaker002:] Alright, well thank you very much for doing that. I hope that got us through the little post-lunch siesta period, erm, we're going to do another er, time management game now which will take about half an hour, and I need to split you up once again into groups, erm, okay. Into three groups of six, so if we have, one, two three, one, two, three, one, two three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. So we're going to do this exercise within this room and we'll need to rearrange the tables, so I suggest that each group as having one table or two tables, put it in a square to work around. So if you could now get together with your people, all the ones together, all the twos together and all the threes together and rearrange the tables in an area of the room where you'd like to work.
[speaker001:] , [LAUGHTER] Ones? Twos? Twos? Twos? Threes? Any more threes? Threes? What are you? Three. Right,
[speaker002:] What you're in your group, if within each group you could elect between you one, a manager and two, an observer.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Thank you class, have you all decided on your managers and observers.
[speaker001:] Yes
[speaker002:] If I could have all the managers and all the observers, please. If you could come out, and out of the room with me.
[speaker001:] , [whistling] The erm, shapes, did you ever have to do that with the thingy in the middle? Erm. You've got er, a sh, a T, we knew it was a T, but it could turn to different shapes, No I didn't do that one [clears throat] And then you have to explain it to the person opposite you, or a long distance phone call, and say how you,, and this, because there was a colour done what I've said, he said my colour's completely different, and you've propose all those colour bits, but They're all different. The object of that was don't assume that people have got a sign for, you know. The beauty of having to describe a shape. , And as they're describing it, you had to draw it. So you had to draw it as they describe it. You're not supposed to be reading the news. , [LAUGHTER], Do you know if the answers are in there. Did anybody meet that famous, last night about the, how you find out about people? I think I told Lisa again. It's one of these assertion things Aye, which thing's that? What, what is the name of that? Which one then? It was body language wasn't it? Aye, it wasn't particular clear though. No What's that? [LAUGHTER], What did Pete say? It's supposed to be a session. So what, what's that supposed to do, if you brush hair it'll indicate to the, the male kind er, that you're interested and that you wouldn't mind getting in touch with them. It's not that you haven't got, or a black skirt or something. , it's a love story, or something. If all he wants is to hitchhikers doesn't he? I know he does. In fact, this Because apparently we've all got to avoid eye contact either that right, or facial expression. I'm going to use it the night before, if you've a minute And all [LAUGHTER], don't believe it. Yes [LAUGHTER] That's two there isn't it? Yes I've got, they're reading about I. [LAUGHTER] The manager, what's the manager going to do, do you think? Give directions. And the observer's just going to watch the group as a whole because she's not anybody to, to. How much longer do you think? . How about sitting here Deena? Unsure, don't know. Do you think we're going somewhere this week? Nip up then because she probably. Perhaps they're doing pass the parcel like. You know that Piper Alpha thing? No , late at night,, they've got the boat, and the tape, they're both out on tape and video, and basically you have to go back, as soon as the boat comes through docks the next person picks it up and goes, so you've got very little time to pick up information, and all the time you can't go in, and the clock's going, and the clock's going and you switch, and they said it was, next to you, they said it such a Can you buy that then? Yes, it's about twenty pounds but it's X rated.
[speaker002:] Are we going to prepared to start that then, I'll say we started, I make it, I make it dead on twenty five to now, but if we go by that clock, and if everybody goes by that one it's probably easier, because that's between twenty five to, so if we make it about eighteen minutes past.
[speaker001:] No but if it's like, not been part of
[speaker002:] Alright, so do you want to start now. [eighteen students, split into three groups are now in discussion, the majority of which is unintelligible and lasts for half an hour]
[speaker001:] Right as you know I'm the head of a major advertising company. We've been approached by er, the local county who wish to er, make up some radio from the er agency. [LAUGHTER], surprise, surprise. Okay. What, in order to decide whether they're going to give us the contract what they have asked us to do is prepare a thirty minute radio, sorry thirty second radio presentation and we will re, record for them and they will hear, which we want to emphasise based on how good that was whether they want to take the contract out with us. Okay, is everybody clear on that? Here's the, to go on. It can be anything real or imaginary. The only precondition we've got on that, is that it's got to be thirty seconds long, we can use whatever sound effects we like, we really, to begin with, we have got to have scripts, everybody here takes part in it has got to have a script first, Yes, now what I'm saying is I mean there's going to be, there's four of us, they're five of us here, taking part in the exercise, yes? So if four of us were to work on it as a group, Two of yous do the script together Right so are we, are we going to, do the script, is one person going to read it all out, or are we going to go round and? Let the manager decide. Fair enough, I shall read out the script. Yes, yes, maybe. So if we three start into that. National Children's Homes,, yes, founded in eighteen sixty nine, C H, children's health, and associated with children's charities, we work with, among others children with disabilities, sexually abused children, homeless young people,. Throughout England there are projects nationwide, they need practical support, counselling, and specialist treatment, but above all there are sixteen thousand children a year that hope for a better future. That's a better right, what I would suggest, is somebody take, what I was going to say is if you time me reading this, okay we get an idea of how long exactly we need to make.... Founded in eighteen sixty nine, N C H, is Britain's second largest children's charity. We work with among others, children with disabilities, sexually abused children, homeless young people, and. Through our two hundred projects nationwide we give practical support, counselling, and specialist treatment, but above all we give sixteen thousand children a year the hope for a better future. Please support us in our year, N C H, a charity for children. What, what ideas are need getting across, how, what, what the charity does, how the er, how the charity does it, and how we can help. That's three priorities in that order. So I think first of all we need to, need to introduce what the charity is and who, who they're going to be benefitting. I think we'll along with a. Well we don't have an idea on this. No. What does it say in the advert? You said it Who we worked for, so that you introduce the charity, who we work for erm, Right, well what did that, question one what charity d, what the charity does right. Yes, okay, anything like that, caring, caring for children, helping children Not really no,... so what we're doing now, we don't want to get too carried away with one, one title, we've got to try and find things to say how we're going to achieve it. We, we've got the how you can help section here, but we've got nothing at all about what the charity does and how it does it, yes we need some appropriate words for getting the idea that they're helping children. yes, then there's the, yes, what that says, at the top, so you can announce what the aim of the campaign is. Can we get help, for the best possible start, we want, something like that, so we're saying, help us to do this, that's how we're getting across the idea they're erm, how they're going about it. Erm, you could say worse, I suppose you could cheat, but erm, Okay I want,, research, help us, erm, help erm, help us give... something like that, help us give a best possible start to them, help us give them, to help us, to them,
[speaker002:] Okay time is up. You can stop now please. Okay then,
[speaker001:] , [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] , and all the jokes and chuck all your scraps away first.
[speaker001:] Where's the bin? Are you alright there?
[speaker002:] Right so what we'll do first of all is get you to your results, and then as each end, we'll get the observers to make their comments. So who wants to go first?
[speaker001:] I think we'll go first if you like.
[speaker002:] Yes,, you may as well stay there if you like or you can come down or
[speaker001:] , [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Set time.
[speaker001:] I am [LAUGHTER] I am Julias Denton for homes for the children's charity. Our aim is to build one hundred new homes for our homeless children. Children are all our responsibilities, please support the children's, The kids, [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER], home,.
[speaker002:] Right, very good, thank you. Phil, you're next.
[speaker001:] Okay. Go on then. End of Side One. , [LAUGHTER] Shall I bring it down here then, bring it over to there and [LAUGHTER] Yesterday, ten thousand children were killed. Richard Branson saved us over the boredom. Just to survive we need your cash today. Our trip is vital for charity. Please support us on the hot-line, in hope.
[speaker002:] Mm, thank you, it's very nice.
[speaker001:] Oh, I'm not too sure, [LAUGHTER] We're the National Children's Home, Action for Children. There is way you can help improve research, we need to give the best possible start to kids. If you care to help rescue children with disabilities and teenagers who suffer abuse we want you to say yes, and to help get eight hundred million pounds [LAUGHTER] Phone now on, with your credit card or visa, or contact your nearest National Westminster Bank.
[speaker002:] Very good. yes, thank you very much.
[speaker001:] , [clapping]
[speaker002:] They were all very good. Okay then, which observer wants to... observe or come out with
[speaker001:] I don't mind.
[speaker002:] Okay then, Hannah, what, what happened in your group?
[speaker001:] Right, do you want me to go through every point?
[speaker002:] Well erm,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Erm, we had a, A couple of tears and so on Yes, go through the first five minutes, there were all different tasks, erm, at first, the girls were making up a basic jingle that would be about thirty seconds, and everyone else was looking through to see what words they should use. And Tracy had already, no, they'd all decided what charity it'd be, Tracy asked what they suggested, so she's democratic. Erm, they all suggested that it should be something like famine. And then they started looking for words that might be relevant so that's quite good. Erm,... they put the bit of paper in the middle with the suggestion type of thing that they were..., and then they all looked for words, erm,... then Ian and Deborah arranged the words on the paper to start ar, rearranging the jingle so that the words that they had, they used their resources like that, and... anything else.... Tracy was keeping an eye on the time all the time, they didn't rehearse it, none at all.
[speaker002:] Was that because of lack of time?
[speaker001:] Yes. At first they were very calm and at the end, at the end there was a big panic that they was, they were all talking over each other, there was no control, you know, it was a bit rushed at the end, but, that wasn't because it was bad planning, it was just they were panicked at the end. It was more difficult than we thought. They should have had more definite targets, because it was a bit, everyone, at one point everyone was doing the same thing,, through the words which
[speaker002:] Why was that?
[speaker001:] Pardon?
[speaker002:] Why was that, was that because it?
[speaker001:] Because it, it's terrifying looking at a blank piece of paper when we needed ways to start the comment.
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] So we had to get some ways to try and get something down. They all had an input, and Tracy kept them a lot. [LAUGHTER] Erm, as I say, she's like, she's very democratic, and she's always asking them what they felt how, how they felt they should tackle it, I mean... They hadn't decided what the message should be...
[speaker002:] Overall, if you had to comment, how do you think it went?
[speaker001:] It was good, apart from the end. And then there was panic because there was no time in the end.
[speaker002:] Thank you very much that group. Next group,, okay,
[speaker001:] Erm, I came down and explained what the nature was, what you wanted to be done, you didn't really explain why and how important that our was, which I felt, that he said what he needing doing, he said what resources he had, and he said that, he didn't really set tasks erm, but he did ask them what they thought they should do you know. Erm, That's good. Sorry? That's what I was going to say. Yes, you set tasks, but by erm, Dave, not by Ian. Erm, at the start it was a bit higgledy-piggly, they didn't really know what they was doing, I felt anyway. And they didn't really decide on what the message was going to be, erm, they just decided to start checking lines, getting words out on what the charity was going to be, they split that up quite well. Erm, I felt that... that Tony was getting a bit frustrated It was There was no Yes, I stopped, like. There was no teamwork really to start with. He was getting a bit frustrated, they didn't really know what they were supposed to be doing. Towards the end it got better though, and they got the time right, we timed it towards the end and the wording was right, so it got better towards the end.
[speaker002:] Okay
[speaker001:] Erm,... yes, and that was it really, at first the, and then it went through, and it was alright at the end.
[speaker002:] So it was
[speaker001:] Yes, it was quite bad to start with, quite poor teamwork, and there was no That's what, that's how I felt was happening. We were given tasks, but then the tasks had been given to certain people like yourself, starting to want to do the other things, that other people were doing, and then everybody wanted to do instead of doing the tasks that they were set. Yes, that's what I mean. There was quite a lot pressure and half the team weren't listening to what Ian was saying at that so
[speaker002:] Alright so, there was a bit of competition between
[speaker001:] Nobody, at the end When we asked for a script from that side from the beginning, it didn't come. Well no because we hadn't, us, given us any ideas, towards the end it got better, and they were. Towards the end it got better and they worked, it was a bad start, but it got better towards the end. And we actually got all the words out. We got the words up there and timed it right and everything and then a rehearsal was done.
[speaker002:] Okay, okay, thank you very much.
[speaker001:] It was very confusing, key words, when we started using key words and when we asked because something wasn't there, and we consulted the script, we were still cutting words out, but, at, the script was definite, but sort of like, two of them well they had doubts, and like we started cutting words out, and then like, the words that were out. Ian started on the script , there were some use of that to begin with, the key words a lot, maybe got stuck on the piece of paper because [LAUGHTER] Maybe not according to, We're all pulling together.
[speaker002:] What about your team Terry? I think you, you're
[speaker001:] Er, right, everybody seemed, and getting it follow it by, erm, the first stage of the planning, erm, did the manager clearly understand the nature of the situation? Erm, I feel that she'd read the brief but hadn't studied it, because she, she went back to half way through, and er, looked at the objectives. Erm, she established the objective, not autocratically, but democratically, erm, there were all sorts, the resources available, what we have, yes, that's not a problem, but the, at the same time, the rest of the group went to establishing the objective, and there was a lot of over-talking by people, and I feel that she didn't control it and say, look this is what we're going to do now. Then we didn't achieve, we're didn't produce a work plan or organiser, we went straight in, people were hacking out bits of papers, you know, it ended up as a big pile of words you know. So,, he took on the task of er, writing the script off his own bat, he wasn't appointed to it, er, but he stuck with that throughout, and erm, he stuck to his objective. Erm, he organised the coordinating, after a while she did actually stop them after five minutes and explain the time situation, er, the final objective were the constraints. There was no really interaction on that on anybody's part. Er, nobody looked at the time which, which did cause a problem. yes, we did You were looking at the time, but it didn't come up, I mean. We did yes, we mentioned it, I mentioned. Yes, you mentioned it a couple of times, put there was no-one really keeping a watch on the clock. Not, not that I saw.
[speaker002:] Can I?
[speaker001:] , [LAUGHTER] , there's eleven minutes to go, and literally everyone starts panicking. You know everyone's like, , [LAUGHTER] It says it really doesn't it? , [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Alright then, moving on, moving totally on.
[speaker001:] Yes, er. Alternate feedback. Yes, but not on an on-going basis. It happened a couple of times,, the exercise. If puzzled. Okay, well I did try to motivate them, motivate them to make the most of each person's individual skills. Er, people chose what they wanted to do. Erm, I cheated. Shit, look Joe, you speak to her, you sit and talking across her,, she's talking to Sharon, you know that, that's all the way through it Come on,, alright, alright. I love you too. Erm, Come on Gary. Erm, good point, she did er, give them letters and she told other people to contribute, she erm, she at one stage ask everybody what they, what the record was. Er, the main problem was the time constraint. There was five minutes to go,
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And we're still, you know, fighting about changing the script and what have you. But they, they did come up with the work on the results, and then they, they did get time to plan it.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And they rehearsed it as well. Er, although Shirley, she took over the ro, erm, she took the role half way through of down on the floor splitting things up things over, er, the rest of them were cutting out words and what have you, and writing out the script the way they wanted it, and she just stuck them on the floor,, and they changed the script, so in that respect she was They changed the script once Yes, no, I mean It depends how you, [LAUGHTER], ah no, but you, but you weren't aware of that because you were on the floor, as I was saying five minutes ago., I don't want all that over here. Erm, I mean, all in all they did, they did get the final result, the scene came together right from the last eleven minutes to achieve the result, but it was just there was a lot of confusion at the beginning of the start.
[speaker002:] Right, okay, well thanks very much, if you'd like to get tables back
[speaker001:] , [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Is there a pair of scissors anywhere?... A pair of scissors?
[speaker001:] yes. Well quite an interesting exercise I think?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER], I hope you're not, well several interesting things have come out of there, it just shows the sort of thing about working under pressure, and the limited amount of time, erm, the limited amount of planning time for the managers certainly. Erm, if the man, who were the managers? Ian, you were one,, and Tracy, if you could just say a few words. What did you find were the difficulties and how did it go really?
[speaker001:] Erm, I thought mine, when I came back and I briefed everybody so that they all knew what was going on
[speaker002:] Yes
[speaker001:] Erm, then I think it probably had us confused for a while, whilst we were just trying to decide who should do writing and who should do what, but then I decided I'd chose two people, and then we started cutting things out so then that, that went okay then. Erm, then we all just worked at getting pieces out on paper, all that was going fine, and then I assigned two more people to stick all the pieces together and trying to create sentences from it, and I think the only time that I, we lost it was like, right at the end we were like looking for a few words to make our sentences make sense. And so we were panicking a bit, because we were just trying to get there, but apart from that, I think it went okay. Like we, we didn't have any arguments amongst the group, I mean I was, everybody was quite willing to do everything, everybody was helpful, came up with suggestions. So it was okay.
[speaker002:] Okay, what about you Ian?
[speaker001:] No, no go on. What did you think, we actually got on very well, I mean I thought we worked quite well together as a team. We did, yes. yes We erm, given that you have to do, okay, I didn't brief them as fully as I could of, and half way through I looked at it again just to make sure I hadn't missed the bottom line that said, you know stand on your head instead in the park, so I just had a little read. [LAUGHTER] And we made within two minutes to sort out what we were going to, or we decided what charity first, then we decided two would decide on the script while the others cut out relevant pieces that we thought might be useful words. And then when the sc, we had a look at the script and we changed it a little bit, and then we all went, they were cutting out words, so we were doing, the first few all three ways, and we'd look and say, okay, so it was a scrambled mess as we all looked through for three words and ended up with, and I got down on the floor, so we knew where we were. And then we changed things like the name because we found somebody's name in all these words, somebody, and we just sellotaped it down, and at the end when we were running out of time, and we did about three times have a look at the time, we did change the script slightly to fit the words that we'd found so we had responsibilities instead of, I don't know what it was, but instead of another words, just because we'd found it. And we just changed it again. But once I think we were, we were going in a mad rush er, each saw his responsibilities for that word, and that'll do, and then we'd say yes, and stuck it here.
[speaker002:] In terms of managing the time, did you feel it worked quite well?
[speaker001:] yes, I mean we got the end result,
[speaker002:] Yes
[speaker001:] Okay we changed a few words just to fit the words we could find, but yes, we, we had about a minute at the end, we read it through, and yes, it was fine. I thought we worked alright together.
[speaker002:] Okay.
[speaker001:] Sorry, can I just make one small comment on that?
[speaker002:] Pardon?
[speaker001:] Can I just , [LAUGHTER] You, you did actually, again it's the time thing, yes. Originally you weren't really looking at it, five of you all fell into the same trap, you know, they, they get half way through, and they did have something to do and they did sort of start rushing. , [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Okay then, let's leave that there, and then talked about that at tea, and you can have a talk about it then. Come on Ian.
[speaker001:] Well I have to admit, with our group, the first ten minutes or was a little bit disorganised because I felt we, I came in, we set down the objects, I felt we did that well, and we were clear of the timescale from the very beginning. We decided quite soon which charity we were going to go for, and we divided up. I mean, I had Tony to go through and find key words that we knew we were going to need, you know, simple words like the, of, with, a, that sort of thing, that we knew that okay, we wouldn't use immediately, but we'd look, ah there that goes there, and use it straight away. Erm, we set tasks that erm, two people were supposed to be working on the script while two people looked through the paper. Now I think what te, what happened there was we er, we drifted away from setting down sc, er, er, scripts to finding good useful key words and phrases out of the paper that we could then fit into the script, and as it had gone that way, I realised it was working, and didn't see any point in trying to get it back to the way it was originally going, because it was going fine. Erm, we had an example advert early on that we actually read through, for the simple reason of finding how long it was going to take, so we had a target as to how long we needed the advert to be very early on and we could work to that. Erm, we carried on, er, it got better as it went on. Tony wasn't impressed a little bit, but a little, a little gee up and we were away again. Erm, I felt that er, we had plenty of time at the end, I mean we, we tried only three times to get it right, and it was okay, and I felt we worked well as a team in that amount of time.
[speaker002:] Alright well, generally then I think from hearing what you're saying, erm, some good points, some perhaps things that you'd do differently next time, and then what it obviously says about you is that, you're all managers and you all have different styles, and you possibly do things in different ways. And you've been in a scenario where there's one manager and there's a few people who aren't in a managing role, but you are actually managers [LAUGHTER], maybe they'd like a little reversal, I mean, I think some good things have come out of that, and possibly things that you'd do better next time.
[speaker001:] We all achieved the target
[speaker002:] Yes, you all did really well. Yes, thank you Stephen. Yes, perhaps you'd
[speaker001:] We all achieved the end result. Everyone's just trying the same situation. And they thought
[speaker002:] Yes, patches of chaos, possibly in the disorganisation, but you got there in the end. Erm, I think what we'll do now is have a quick cup of tea, a nice friendly, smiley, cup of tea, And then I want you to meet, I want you to be back here by quarter to four. It's called time, it gives you a little space at the top so you can fill in what you feel to be your role, and if you can fill below, all the tasks in respective order that you do in a typical day. Right, so a complete brainstorm, and we'll start again, and we'll come back to those in a little while. We're going to spend the rest of the session on time management. We're going to talk about three methods of managing your time. The first of those is delegation, a much talked about subject. Erm, how many of you delegate?
[speaker001:] Yes
[speaker002:] Yes, the vast majority? How do you go about that, and what sort of things do you delegate?
[speaker001:] I look at all the jobs that's got, that have to be done in the day, right, and look at which ones I should do, and then all the other jobs I just share out between the relevant people.
[speaker002:] Right, is there any kind of pattern to that, or is it on a daily basis that you do that?
[speaker001:] No, certain things, certain specific jobs are set to certain people.
[speaker002:] Such as?
[speaker001:] That are on-going. One of my, my senior section manager does till results, anything to do with till results, my section manager does scheduling. Another section manager does something else, and they do that every week.
[speaker002:] Okay, does that, and you find that that works well?
[speaker001:] Mm, very well.
[speaker002:] Er, what kind of checks to do have, do you have to keep on that?
[speaker001:] About once every week I'll check that everything's been done. Well, with the scheduling obviously it's checked every day, but erm, things like till results, I check every week to make sure it's been, if she's been, but she's really good so, so I just have to check up. What they did at a branch on our district erm, again it was just like set up, people were given specific tasks, but at the end of the three month cycle, they'd change some people, er, those people's tasks so that they, so they wouldn't get stagnant, and plus, if one person was off, if you happened to be on holiday, you've got somebody else that can do the job at the standard and not let the standard fall.
[speaker002:] So you're not just reliant on one person, and if that person's away you're stuck. Anybody else delegate? Delegates?...
[speaker001:] I think everybody does throughout the course of the day without even realising anyway, do they? Certainly, the only go, the only way I run a shift, the way she runs checkouts, is erm, by going, you, it's the same thing every day, you've got to run through everything on the same point order, because you know, you've been doing it, it's got to be done at the same time, like bread the last lot's got to be on by four. Erm, so you, it's one of the second, third things to look at when I, I start at three fifteen, it's the third thing I do. The first thing I do is check the stocks, followed by date returns and er, you know, erm, get that done, out of the way, and start looking at the, of the night, and what have you, setting that up, and maybe the late night process, hand over from the branch manager, walk round doing any detail he wants me to do, and hand over from late nights. Department managers, new checkouts, do all the bits and pieces on, and wanted me to do, while I wait for the shift to come in, and they start at seven. Er, keep an eye on them, I'll have a bit of replenishment here and then, erm, so he's, until eight o'clock, and then you get everything pulled out. Erm, replenishment until ten o'clock, er, get the warehouse, get the clear-out underway.
[speaker002:] So where do you actually delegate within that?
[speaker001:] To the er, because there's no other management in the place, you just delegate to another member of staff.
[speaker002:] And is that er, do you have one person that you allocate specific tasks or do you go on a daily basis.
[speaker001:] Er, it's like, it's like the foreman on the shopfloor for some reason, there's a er, in the systems or whatever, er, the warehouseman er, the night porter er, when he takes over, he knows what he's doing, he knows what I want, because I've spoken to him about it, erm, he knows what items I want to leave for stock people, erm, and Sue, the checkout manager, she'll know if I want extra people on the shopfloor because we're quiet, or I expect it to be quiet, erm, she knows where they've got to be, and I'll come back and review it with her.
[speaker002:] Okay, anybody else delegate?... Yes, well how do you do it Teddy?
[speaker001:] Well it's, you go in in the morning, and it's the same jobs every day really basically. Erm, the, I first tell people what to do because they all know their roles, and when you go in in the morning, and you're just basically going round checking that they've already done it all.
[speaker002:] Okay
[speaker001:] Erm, if there's something needs doing extra you just ask the person who's best for the job to sort it out and to do it for you.
[speaker002:] So your role is more a checking and writing one, similar to what Helen.
[speaker001:] Yes, well with the staff I've got, yes, they're all there. At night-times I've got my jobs to get stuck into on the shopfloor as well, just hope that everybody works as a strong team basically.
[speaker002:] Yes, does anybody here not delegate?
[speaker001:] I did delegate, but I won't do it now, I do literally
[speaker002:] Say that again, I missed that.
[speaker001:] Er, I sorry, [clears throat], just clearing my throat, er, I did, I did delegate if somebody put it on the end of somebody's assignment, then I to it, but I tend to find I underestimate what people can do for me all the time, and don't identify just how much those people can give me back, and I did, or I do have a tendency at times to give people like before, to hold on too much, try and do too much myself, and er, you can't do it that way in case. But once you've, you've got to know your people better, develop your people better.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] It's something I've got to work on.
[speaker002:] To decide for yourself what they're capable of. Why, does anybody else find difficulty with delegating.
[speaker001:] No, I was just going to say that if, if you try it once, you know, you know if they can do it, they'll be. Oh, yes. I was going to say, I like to set somebody task as they're down for, and I look for it, and nine times out of ten you'll find out if they can achieve that very shortly, very fast. And if they cannae cope with it, they'll come to, or the majority will come and say look I cannae do it. If it's something silly, that they haven't been trained for, but most jobs you can delegate and they'll do it just as well as you.
[speaker002:] It's just a matter of having confidence in them to do that.
[speaker001:] Since, since Norwich, you just can't delegate like erm, you just ha, you don't have any other management there, only section managers, and you delegate that job to er, supervisors, erm, it's a very on-hands management situation. You can delegate to anybody can't you. You can delegate your staff as well. Yes, yes, fair enough, but erm, Depending on the task, it depends what the job is. Yes, I mean, like I mean making late payments, I'm delegating people to fill up those late payment. Okay, it's delegation, but it's not erm, the sort of like, a responsible job if you see what I mean, it's a job that they're employed to do anyway, but it's not a separate sort of task.
[speaker002:] Yes, okay.... What's the difference between delegating and abdicating?
[speaker001:] Delegate erm, you can delegate the job, but you can't delegate the responsibility.
[speaker002:] Right, so when you delegate, what are you delegating?
[speaker001:] Specific tasks, the physical
[speaker002:] But when you delegate that task is there anything that you retain?
[speaker001:] The responsibility that it's being done right.
[speaker002:] Right, and who is ultimately accountable?
[speaker001:] Yourself.
[speaker002:] Yes, right, okay. When we're talking about delegating tasks, I think tasks can be almost categorised into two clear sections. Has anybody heard about how tasks can be categoried? I think they mentioned it on the video.
[speaker001:] Urgent and important.
[speaker002:] Right, then there's that which we're going to come onto in a minute
[speaker001:] It's active, isn't it, instead of reactive
[speaker002:] Reactive, yes. Can you erm, explain what a reactive task is, Tracy?
[speaker003:] It's something you haven't got planned into your day, isn't it, it's something that comes up, and you, you have to respond to it, so you have to have time between the day, to be able to do those things.
[speaker002:] Okay, can you give an example?
[speaker003:] Erm, it's like to keep my day planned out but, like the district manager might walk in or people might go off sick, and then you have to fill somebody in to that position. Things that you just don't think are going to happen
[speaker002:] So you act
[speaker001:] Especially management goes down ill or something.
[speaker002:] Okay, so they're unexpected... can you thing of any, er, another kind of way of erm, other tasks that possibly could be described as reactive tasks?
[speaker001:] I've got customer experience.
[speaker002:] Pardon?
[speaker001:] Customer experience.
[speaker002:] So you've got customer query, or something like that.
[speaker001:] yes The bakery, and you're expecting a delivery, especially like on produce, and then you have to go off, or something like that, get people stacking right up.
[speaker002:] Okay, what about erm, if the opposite, I mean if we've got reactive tasks, what's the opposite of that?
[speaker001:] Proactive
[speaker002:] Proactive, or possibly just active.... And how would you describe an active task?
[speaker001:] Something you do every day anyway.
[speaker002:] Right so they're regular,
[speaker001:] Regular, yes.
[speaker002:] What do they do for your department? I mean that, can you think of examples of active tasks?
[speaker001:] cleaning, checks [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Till checks, right, interesting that you should say that.
[speaker001:] Erm, just filling up shelves.
[speaker002:] yes, interesting you should say that, because the definition I had was something quite the reverse.
[speaker001:] Many of these are planned for, isn't it, you might do it every day, but you've planned for it,
[speaker002:] Right,
[speaker001:] So you, you'll be able to do it every Monday, but you've planned for it on Monday, you know who's going to do it, and they, you know, it's set up.
[speaker002:] Okay, so it's something right. The way I would possibly define active and reactive, I would see active as things that actually take your department forward a step. They are things that you do which actually improve your department both in the short and in the long-term. The long-term specifically. Things like okay, ordering possibly could be reactive and active, because yes, it's something that has to be done every day, but if your order in spot on, that is an active task, it would improve and benefit to your, you would say that that,. Whereas reactive, I think one typical task that's a reactive task which is yes, it's unexpected or whatever, is cardboard collecting, because it's the type of thing that happens regularly, but it doesn't actually get your department, it doesn't
[speaker001:] It doesn't achieve anything.
[speaker002:] No, in a day you do now, then later you've got to do it again.
[speaker001:] It's one of those mundane tasks.
[speaker002:] yes... I mean, can you think of any, I mean, putting that kind of interpretation on it, can you think of anything else other than cardboard collecting.
[speaker001:] Tidying the cabinets, dressing them down. solids.
[speaker002:] Do you often find yourself doing these tasks?
[speaker001:] All day long.
[speaker002:] All day long, right.
[speaker001:] And most of the night.
[speaker002:] One, I think one of the tasks that you find branch managers doing on a fairly regular basis is collecting cardboard.
[speaker001:] What? Some of them do.
[speaker002:] My branch manager does it all the time.
[speaker001:] Yes, my branch manager does it all the time, yes, it's his regular way out. It's escapism.
[speaker002:] Escapism, exactly, you've hit the nail on the head there Dee, escapism. It's a comfort blanket, that's what it is, when you see your branch manager collecting cardboard, it's usually because he's feeling a bit stressed out.
[speaker001:] No, it's just because he's lazy.
[speaker002:] It could be just because he's lazy. Alright, what about, when you mentioned as well, we've got reactive and we've got active tasks. What about, you said something about, somebody mentioned important and urgent tasks?... Who said that?
[speaker001:] I did.
[speaker002:] Yes, what do you see as those being?
[speaker001:] Well urgent tasks would be tasks that are done at that time, to complete them.
[speaker002:] So urgent equals time
[speaker001:] Equals time limit.
[speaker002:] limit and I mean, urgent is now isn't it,
[speaker001:] Yes It's to be done A S A P. What about important? Important, it has to be done, but it's not as, it's not as important as the urgent.
[speaker002:] Is that, is that right, what do the rest of think?
[speaker001:] No, it needs to be done but it's something that It needs to be done but do you know what I mean, if you don't your important things on time they become urgent
[speaker002:] yes, yes.
[speaker001:] No, because things come up unexpectedly, so things will become urgent that maybe you didn't think were important, but have just suddenly emerged. Do you know what I mean? Unexpected things that emerging you have to do there and then, like The whole day's important isn't it? The whole day's important.
[speaker002:] Yes, everything, a lot of things are important, and what you're saying is true Alex, that if you do the important things when you should do them, they won't become urgent, but equally what Tracy says is that, is true is that you will get unexpected things cropping up where you have to drop everything.
[speaker001:] I tell what is urgent is a message coming down to you, you've had a delivery team, they're going to destroy cases of whatever, so that's urgent, that has to be done there and then because it's a danger to the public or whatever. So that's important. And then you've got emergencies.
[speaker002:] How long, I mean, how, in terms of, in terms of time that you spend on urgent or important tasks, how long do you think an urgent task may take?
[speaker001:] Not long, not very long.
[speaker002:] So it's relatively short? And what about important?
[speaker001:] You might take your time on that, more time.
[speaker002:] So it could be something that's rather time consuming?... Can things be both urgent and important. What can you think of that possibly is?
[speaker001:] Well your could be important first thing in the morning today, as you're sidetracked into doing other things, then it becomes urgent doesn't it, if you've had to reposition your, and whatever.
[speaker002:] Right. What I'd like you to do, is to have a look at your time, one, and first of all see notes down on it, make a note beside each task that you've got on there, whether it's active or reactive. Bearing in mind that active are things that take your time forward, in the long-term, reactive are things like scale checks, you know you're daily, fairly monotonous tasks like that.
[speaker001:] Aren't some, some of them both?
[speaker002:] Sorry?
[speaker001:] Aren't some of them both?
[speaker002:] Er, that's a possibility yes?
[speaker001:] You know you could say these scale checks, they're, but they're still urgent to be done.
[speaker002:] The, they're still, they're, they're not active in that they don't actually progress your department do they?
[speaker001:] If your scales are wrong you're not progressing are you?
[speaker002:] No, but we're not, we're not arguing that they're not working.
[speaker001:] Just classify them as being reactive and active, by them.... Totally monotonous [LAUGHTER] ...
[speaker002:] It tends to be the case that when a task is identified as being reactive you can usually delegate it down, because it's very, it's a monotonous, everyday task, it doesn't actually move the department forward. It's not strictly a managerial task. Has anybody got any reactive tasks on their lists?
[speaker001:] Yes Yes
[speaker002:] Well shout out a few.
[speaker001:] Not, not as many as active though, because you could say that stock checks and checks are reactive because you're doing it every day but, stock checks move the department forward on your stock reports.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But you could delegate it down couldn't you. I mean, I would say the overseeing of that, and trying to improve your stock results erm, as a key result area, is the active part of it, but the actual everyday doing those checks, you can delegate that down. So reactive, you delegate down
[speaker002:] I would have said in the, in the large part. Why have you got any down there?
[speaker001:] Butchering's a tasty part of, if I wanted to do anything I'd take a leaf out of, I would say is that, but I delegate down through the butchers.
[speaker002:] Cutting meat?
[speaker001:] Do you like it? Yes.
[speaker002:] Would you say that cutting meat and getting it on the shelf every day, takes your department forward?
[speaker001:] Yes, yes. It's just an everyday task. I would agree with you yes, An everyday task is something that you have to do every day, so No, no I'd agree with you, because to me pricing is, is active or whatever it is You couldn't wait, That's priority, that's got to be. No it isn't because it's a day to day activity. Yes but it's all based down on cutting more. What you've done is there, you've, you've, you've done your cutting programme, and then you delegate, yes, but the actual cutting, give that to the butchers. Yes. So the programme's the bit that you do, and then to them basically just cutting it, while it's still down, you were still, the awkward thing is both
[speaker002:] Which bit are you doing Kenny, you do the actual, you plan the, what did you call it? The?
[speaker001:] The cutting programme.
[speaker002:] The cutting programme, and you cut the meat.
[speaker001:] I cut the meat, yes. But do you cut meat? Yes, Friday and Saturday I do. But why? Delegate to someone else? Because we haven't got the staff to do it.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] It's the same for the provisions manager, they have the same kind of thing isn't it. But it could be delegated. Cut meat brings my department forward, and if I don't cut that meat, and don't build up slowly upwards, therefore my department's going to stand still isn't it?
[speaker002:] What do the rest of you think?
[speaker001:] I agree with him, I agree.
[speaker002:] I mean do you think that the actual cutting of the meat should be a managerial task?
[speaker001:] No No, I don't, but who else is going to do it, if I don't do it?
[speaker002:] Yes, I agreed. Okay, we've got two issues here. If you've got a situation where you're the only person around well yes, obviously you're going to have to do it, and you can't, you're not in a position where you're able to delegate. But I would have said that something like cutting meat, if you've got butchers around, it's not something that you would be, you should be spending your time doing.
[speaker001:] That is normal, it happens all the time.
[speaker002:] You, if you had something more to do, you wouldn't be cutting meat though?
[speaker001:] I'd rather be, on Sundays, cutting meat, wrapping meat, packing meat, and doing the same for everybody else.
[speaker002:] Yes there's a situation where you get
[speaker001:] There's nobody else there.
[speaker002:] Yes, but we, we're talking about the days when you do have other people available, what would you spend your time doing?
[speaker001:] Cutting meat. [LAUGHTER] That excuses my question, like you're going down your priorities, you take, and in the low branches, we still have the same old jobs to do, there's the stocktaking, X thousands of pounds.
[speaker002:] Yes, oh no, I agree with that, but when you're cutting the meat, what are your butchers doing?
[speaker001:] My butchers are not there.
[speaker002:] No but we're talking about the days when your butchers are there.
[speaker001:] What am I doing then, I'm filling the shelves.
[speaker002:] What does the rest of you think?
[speaker001:] Think they like, cutting meat isn't taking his department forward, it's an everyday activity. If he took more staff on and they were say filling up provisions, putting the pies out every day is taking the department forward, it's an everyday task. Order it correctly in the first place.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] If the manager's department. If you order it correctly, then your staff can function on a daily basis. It's when you don't order it correctly, it's when you go wrong. If you get your books right, it'll all happen on the shopfloor.
[speaker002:] Say that again?
[speaker001:] If you get your books right, it'll all happen out on the shopfloor, all the manager has to do. Because that's what you're expecting them to do. Yes, but that's not, not what a regional manager's supposed to do. A regional manager spends more time, you know, okay, it's a little bit longer, I deal with more lines than you, the pressure is far, you know, every branch manager I know, the guy's got to believe that they'll get staff from somewhere, it's just as long as they get the order in and the availability right.
[speaker002:] Does anybody else have reactive tasks on their list?
[speaker001:] I've had during the week which are... shopfloors, bullets, that sort of thing.
[speaker002:] Which tasks do you have Donna?
[speaker001:] Thing like checking recipes through the post, and things like that. So a lot of mine are reactive because I just haven't got any staff.
[speaker002:] No, but if you had the staff, I mean we're talking about a hypothetical situation, would you still try doing that?
[speaker001:] No, I'd give that up any day.
[speaker002:] Okay, does anybody find themselves doing reactive tasks when possibly they do have the staff?
[speaker001:] yes There are certain things like active, that I actually do throughout the branch as well. I mean I could quite easily delegate it out, but I can't because it's a management function, so, I've got to be the one that's got to walk round the branch for half an hour, taking twelve blocks off, checking all the sealed.
[speaker002:] So that's actually within procedure that you have to do that.
[speaker001:] Yes it is.
[speaker002:] Okay, so that's obviously you're then able to delegate.
[speaker001:] I think you're, you're often asked to do reactive tasks when I've done all my tasks, you know I've got all my staff doing this, and then I've got to help down on the shopfloor, and it's not that I'm doing something that I'm, you know, I should be doing as a manager, it's that I've done all of mine, and I'm going out to give them a hand. If I had, if I had more pressing tasks personally, I wouldn't be doing it.
[speaker002:] yes.
[speaker001:] I think erm, shifts differ slightly through other departments, in the sense that it is only there for one day. The only thing that you can really do to take yourself forwards in a shift situation is your scheduling for the following week. You know, er, right look at previous weeks, with, you know, er, branch to mind the er, the account for the kind of day is er, the account is probably pretty much the same as it was the previous week. There's very little chance of it catching unawares. Er, but I mean, everything you do is, is designed to set yourself up in the best possible position for when the staff come in and, and throughout the shift leaving it as best you can for the branch manager the next day. It, it's all reactive to that day, in that there's very, very little in carrying you forward.
[speaker002:] Yes, some of the departments, some department managers I think have more erm, their goals tend to be more short-term possibly than longer term.
[speaker001:] Yes, the same thing is like erm, if I do, the rest of the shop for the rest of the d, that day, but I do goods the next night, erm, that shop's okay for the next day, and it's, it's only like on a one day basis.
[speaker002:] Mm, yes, okay.
[speaker001:] So active is a job that gets done on a daily basis every day? No
[speaker002:] No, not necessarily [LAUGHTER], no, an active task is something that takes your department forward, actively improves the way your department runs, which could be something like.