[speaker001:] Right then Leona er when did you move to the flats?
[Tiffany:] [crying]
[Leona:] December eighty one.
[speaker001:] And erm where did you move from?
[Leona:] I was near at the time, with Tiffany, in Mansfield.
[Tiffany:] [crying]
[speaker001:] . And before that?
[Leona:] Before that I was erm living with some fr friends in Liverpool. And before that I was m back in Nottingham.
[speaker001:] Where did you originate from?
[Leona:] Nottingham.
[speaker001:] Where about?
[Leona:] Edge Lane estate. It's in between Sherwood and Bestwood.
[speaker001:] Did you live there with your parents?
[Tiffany:] [crying]
[Leona:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Was it, did you have any er any brothers or sisters?
[Leona:] I've got... I've got two brothers and one sister.
[speaker001:] Do they live in Nottingham?
[Tiffany:] [crying]
[Leona:] My sister lives in Edinburgh, me two brothers live in Nottingham.
[speaker001:] Do they live in the flats?
[Leona:] No. Ted used to. He used to live on the erm in the, but he doesn't any more.
[speaker001:] When did he move out?
[Leona:] Ooh. About eighteen month ago. Might be more, yeah about eighteen month ago.
[speaker001:] Was that to move to another council house?
[Leona:] No, bought his own house....
[speaker001:] Erm compared to other places you've lived in erm how does this flat stand up to the comparison?
[Leona:] Well, I mainly, up until, when I started to live on my own, I mainly lived in bed and breakfasts, or shared houses, so this is one of the better sort. [LAUGHTER] Really.. It's really my ow first very own place of my own....
[speaker001:] Do you like it?
[Leona:] No. I never have liked it.
[speaker001:] Why not?...
[Leona:] Well... for a start half of them, the shape of them isn't very conven it's not very good for ar arranging things. And er you can't really do much because of the stone walls and there's too much window and too much noise, and you get quite a few insects in them, and... they're just generally not very nice at all. In fact there's only two good points about them and that's you've always got hot water, and your h heating, you're always warm. That's the only two good points about them.
[speaker001:] You say you had, the shape of the rooms, what sort
[Leona:] Mhm. Well I mean l l look at this shape, I mean it's a like an L shape, it's erm very unpractical. I mean having to come upstairs before you even get into the house isn't very good either, cos I mean with kids you've got to carry the pushchairs up and everything and carry kids up and carry all your shopping up, it's not, it's not very practical having them upstairs.
[speaker001:] Erm,y y you say the heating's alright?
[Leona:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Erm... I mean does it deliver enough heat all the time?
[Leona:] Most of the time, yeah, I mean, they're usually very good. I've only had ever about two complaints in four and a half years, and that's not very bad, that's only because the filter needed cleaning, mostly.
[speaker001:] What about your hot water? Do you get that? Is that
[Leona:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] part of it?
[Leona:] Oh yeah. It's always there, I mean erm... that's one of the advantages you can have a bath every day. That's something I'll miss when I move, cos paying for it, you don't, well I know you pay for it here, but it's all in and
[Tiffany:] [scream]
[Leona:] Oi!... [break in recording]
[speaker001:] Er now why did you actually move to the flats?
[Leona:] Cos it was the only, it was either here or the Balloon Woods, cos I was er I was given an emergency placing, it was either here or Balloon Woods, and at the time I didn't fancy Balloon Woods, but I wish I'd taken it now, I'd be, I'd have my own [LAUGHTER] place by []
[speaker001:] Erm... so, you, you were on emergency, is that because you're a single parent?
[Leona:] Mm, yeah.
[speaker001:] Er... you say there was a choice between this and Balloon Woods, why did you actually choose?
[Leona:] Well, cos it was in town, it was nearer to shops, and erm I'd heard that keeping Balloon Woods' flats warm was costing people a hell of a lot of money. Cos it was in with the electric bills, and I didn't want that, and that was one of the advantages that made me decide to have here, cos I knew that the heating was in with the rent....
[speaker001:] Erm, so did you have any friends when on the estate at first?
[Leona:] Not at the time, no, but I'm, I knew people that were on here, from other places you know, so I met
[Tiffany:] [crying]
[Leona:] other people, so
[speaker001:] How do you find it, erm er socializing with people?
[Leona:] You can't really around here, cos everybody's suspicious of everybody else.... And er as I say, the only people I know on here now, are people that I've met actually off here. Or through people that I knew before.
[speaker001:] You say people are suspicious of each other wh wh what do you mean by that?
[Leona:] Well, I mean... erm I dunno really, you sort of get the feeling that they're suspicious, cos I mean there's so many things go on here, that they're not sure erm about you, I mean if somebody else doesn't know you, then they're not sure about you.
[Tiffany:] [scream]
[speaker001:] So d what sort of things go on in the flats?
[Leona:] Well... booze erm drugs, prostitution, that sort of thing.
[speaker001:] And d d th th do they actually go on, or is it, sort of exaggerated?
[Leona:] It's not exaggerated. It does go on.
[speaker001:] Er, do you think it gives a particularly bad name?
[Leona:] Oh yes, it definitely does....
[speaker001:] Er did you know about this [LAUGHTER] when you were [] offered the flat? Did you know it had
[Leona:] Oh yeah, oh yeah.... I knew about it.
[speaker001:] But it didn't bother
[Leona:] No, cos I knew I wouldn't associate with erm erm people and I wouldn't get into it. I mean, I'm not messing against what anybody else does, and I wouldn't try and interfere with what anybody else does, but I wouldn't get involved with them.
[speaker001:] Right Leona, can you, can you just go over s the places you lived in before you actually moved to the flat?
[Leona:] Well I've lived in quite a few places, I've, I say, before I came here, I was at mother and baby Home, and before that I was living with friends in Liverpool, and before that I was in Nottingham at a bed and breakfast place, lodgings, and er
[speaker001:] Were they, was that through the council?
[Leona:] No it wasn't. No. And then erm, before that I got, I was living with friends again, in Nottingham. And then erm I was at home for a while, and then I was living with friends in Birmingham, and in, in between time I've been to Leeds and London. Not for very long though, but erm most of the time I spent away living in Birmingham....
[speaker001:] And you say you've never lived anywhere sort of similar to the flats? You've not lived
[Leona:] No.
[speaker001:] in. So they've, have they been terraced or something like that?
[Leona:] Yeah, one, I shared a house in er, in Forest Fields,
[speaker001:] Where, where's that?
[Leona:] Forest Fields.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Leona:] I shared a house there. And erm, so I haven't really had a place of my own until I got this one, and it's usually lodgings or sharing.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Now erm... there are quite a few sort of single parents on the, the flats, now erm... are there any problems that you've had which possibly other people have had, with living in the flats? Any er particularly bad points that make it difficult for you?
[Leona:] Well, erm I... I have been accosted a few times to do a few things, you know erm... like I say, prostitution, they think probably because you're on your own, everybody else, because one, say one person in the block is one, then you are one as well, you know. You're tarred with the same brush. And erm...? Plus I have had, I have been m mugged while I have been out. I had my purse pinched, that wasn't very good. Erm and you do feel shut in at nights when you're on your own. Erm... which isn't any help at all, it shows the people they're on their own anyway, cos you feel more lonely that way.... You get more lonely, which doesn't help in here, and I mean say, I mean the view isn't very n... this view is very drab, and if you'd got something to look at it wouldn't... wouldn't matter so much, but erm
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER] [children]
[Leona:] Not re... [break in recording]
[speaker001:] Okay.
[Leona:] Yeah, and it's, it's very lonely in here if you don't really know people. Erm especially now that everybody's moving away and most of the people you know have probably gone, or going, or they probably won't be moving near you any more.
[speaker001:] Did y you said that you had your purse stolen, did someone actually break into the flat?
[Leona:] No, I was walking up the ramps and it was ripped out of my hand actually.... I, cos I had the strap on my arm, it was pulled off that.
[speaker001:] Did you actually, did you go to the police about it?
[Leona:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Did they do anything?
[Leona:] No. What could they do? You know, it happens quite a few times, doesn't it?
[speaker001:] Erm... so y you never got it back, or anything?
[Leona:] No.
[speaker001:] So are y I don't think we actually established, are, are you erm are you unemployed?
[Leona:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So you're on Supplementary?
[Leona:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Erm, have you had any jobs in the past, have you worked in the past?
[Leona:] , I was seventeen, I worked at the Flying Horse.
[speaker001:] It's a pub isn't it?
[Leona:] Yeah, it's a pub cum hotel, it's a hotel thing.
[speaker001:] Erm how'd you find it living on the money get on Social Security?
[Leona:] It's difficult, but you can manage. I mean anyone who says they can't manage on what they get, er they can't feed the kids on what they get, probably go in the pubs five or si six nights a week, and smoke too much and but erm... I mean these never go without a meal or anything like that. I mean we're no when we have s like egg and chips, it's cos we want to, not because we've got to.... You know?
[speaker001:] I mean do you manage to keep s sort of quite a good diet? Or do y
[Leona:] Oh yeah. I mean every Sunday, we have a, a Sunday dinner, I mean it's usually chicken, cos it's the cheapest one there is, but I mean we still have a Sunday dinner, we have fresh veg and everything. I mean there's not many, probably not many families round here that could say that.
[speaker001:] Do you actually shop locally then?
[Leona:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And erm how, how do you, do you do your shopping, do you do it once every fortnight, or do you...?
[Leona:] No, I er do it as I need it actually. I mean I get a few things in every week that, you know that you need, that you know... er I go out on Monday and get everything else for the week like washing powder, and that sort of thing but u for food, I just get it every day.
[speaker001:] Do you go into the centre much?
[Leona:] About once a week.
[speaker001:] What's that, is that for shop food and things?
[Leona:] No, just to go out, cos I'm wanting...
[Tiffany:] [crying]
[Leona:] just to go out on a Monday with her, cos she doesn't have nursery on a Monday, Tiffany. So we go out and have a meal out. I mean I can have, even afford meals out.
[speaker001:] So do you budget quite tightly then?
[Leona:] Mhm. I mean even when I smoked I did. I mean I, I could s I could still get what I needed.
[speaker001:] Do you think a lot of people do that, or do you think you're particularly sort of
[Leona:] I don't know, people l I'm of them say they can't afford to pay the kids, and get the food for the kids, and they'll have to give them chips a couple of, every day of the week or whatever, but th there's no need for that. I mean if, if people smoke too much, I mean they should put the kids before the c the cigarettes, and erm... people I have heard say that, I've seen in the pub three or four nights a week. If they can afford to go there, then why don't they, you know, if you have two pints in there I mean it's, it's a meal really, cos I, I could give these kids a meal for about a one pound, one pound fifty. And that's, that's feeding us.
[speaker001:] Do, do you go out to the pub much yourself?
[Leona:] No. I don't.
[speaker001:] so you don't go out for drinks,?
[Leona:] No, I mean, last time I went out would be erm well I've been out in the afternoon a few times, with my boyfriend, but, the last time I went out in the evening
[Tiffany:] [scream]
[Leona:] would be about eighteen month ago. And it doesn't bother me cos I put their, them first.
[speaker001:] D so I mean what do you find to do, I mean, how do you spend your time?
[Leona:] Oh, me and my boyfriend play cards, and watch telly, and that sort of thing. Play dominoes.
[speaker001:] Right, so you sort of er find activities that you can actually
[Leona:] Yeah, do in the house.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Leona:] Do together.
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER] [children]...
[speaker001:] Er y... do you find it difficult to find people to look after the children, or is it just that you, you wouldn't want to go out?
[Leona:] No, I could get a baby-sitter, it's just that I don't want to go out. I mean my, my money is erm...
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Leona:] you know, the money is put towards their f food and things, rather than giving it to somebody else [LAUGHTER] [].
[speaker001:] Er where, where do the erm children go in the day time? Do they go to a play er s school?
[Leona:] Well, erm, Adrian goes on a Mondays and Tuesdays to nursery, and on a Wednesdays and Fridays to his dad, and Tiffany goes on a Tuesday and Thursday and Friday to nursery.
[speaker001:] Which nursery's that?
[Leona:] .
[speaker001:] How did you get the n th the them into that?
[Leona:] Well she need needed it for erm her speech, and then when he came along, he just nearly automatically got one because everybody got one in really. Well, not automatically, but they thought it would be a good idea to have him in. To
[speaker001:] What
[Leona:] keep an eye on him, see if his speech was too slow in talking....
[speaker001:] Erm w why didn't you send them to the ones on the fla on the flats?
[Leona:] I couldn't get them in there....
[speaker001:] Was it full?
[Leona:] Mhm. I mean there's not really one in the flats that is suitable really....
[speaker001:] Wh wh what do you mean, what's
[Leona:] I mean, they need a nursery not a playgroup, there's a difference.
[speaker001:] I see. Erm... d d do your children have, have many friends on the flats? Do they mix with the children in the flats?
[Leona:] No, no. She's got one friend over there, erm on, but not really.... Not really, no.
[speaker001:] Do you let them out to play
[Leona:] No....
[speaker001:] Why's that? Because you think they're too young or what?
[Leona:] I don't erm, yeah, I do think they're too young to be out here, because er you can't keep an eye on them. Especially nowadays, with things going, I mean I'm not saying really round here like that, but you never know do you?...
[Tiffany:] [scream]
[speaker001:] Right, now you've said where you've, where you've lived before and how you got here erm now you're on the phasing aren't you? Er
[Leona:] Yeah, in fact I've got a, I've been allocated a place, but it's not ready for me yet.
[speaker001:] Yeah. So you're, you're, you're pha I mean phase four right?
[Leona:] Phase four, yeah.
[speaker001:] Right. Now,wh wh where did you put your name down to go?
[Leona:] Bilborough, Sherwood or Woollaton. As I say, I've got a house in Woollaton, but it's not ready yet. They're doing it up, or doing something to it.
[speaker001:] What, why did you decide to go to those areas?
[Leona:] Well, Bilborough, my mother lives at Bilborough, I thought it'd be nice to be near her, my dad lives up Sherwood, and I used to, I used to live up Sherwood, it's a good place and got a good school. And I think Woollaton speaks for itself, I mean it's [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] don't you []?
[speaker001:] Erm so what's, what's the place like that you got?
[Leona:] Three-bedroomed house, front and back garden. And I haven't, as I say I haven't seen it yet, but erm I've had a look at it but not actually been inside it, because they're doing, still doing it up.
[speaker001:] And is it the sort of place you were looking for?
[Leona:] Mhm. Three bedroom and everything. Yeah....
[speaker001:] Erm will you be glad to move out of the flats?
[Leona:] Definitely. Definitely.
[speaker001:] Will there be anything you miss about them?
[Leona:] As I say, only the heating and the hot water.... That I must technically pay for it....
[speaker001:] Do you think you'll be able to ma
[Leona:] That is the only thing.
[speaker001:] Do you think you'll be able to manage with the bills and that?
[Leona:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] ... Right then. Now, you worked for the erm the tenants' action group, didn't you for a time?
[Leona:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] . How wh when was that?...
[Leona:] Erm... about nineteen eighty two to three, it'd be.
[speaker001:] Wh what, what was actually going on at the tenants' group then?
[Leona:] A a at the time, they were trying to get this place looked at and surveyed, and everything to get it, you know to see what they could do about it, get it closed down, but er they hadn't got that far with that then. Erm they hadn't got a survey going, they'd got coming round to have a look at it, and they'd got the environmental health from London to have a survey of it, and er everything.
[speaker001:] Y you were secretary weren't you?
[Leona:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Erm what, what was the feeling that came over to you from the tenants' group at the time? Did it feel like it was a well-organized group, or did it feel?
[Leona:] Well a a a at the time, they'd just changed over from the erm Tenants' Development Association, to the Tenants' Action Group, so it was a bit disorganized to begin with, cos we were still sorting out the, everything from what they'd left over and things, so, but once we'd got that all so once they'd got that all sorted out, yeah, it was....
[speaker001:] Erm, did you think it reflected the views of the tenants?
[Leona:] Most of them, yeah. Most of them. About ninety percent of them.
[speaker001:] And did you have anything to do with the Development Association?
[Leona:] No I didn't.
[speaker001:] . So y y you wouldn't know about the ins and outs of what went on when they?
[Leona:] No.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Erm erm... so y you were, you were with the tenants' erm association, eighty two eighty three?
[Leona:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Erm, have you had anything to do with them since? Have you
[Leona:] No, not really, no.
[speaker001:] Do, have you, do you go to the meetings?
[Leona:] No.
[speaker001:] Is that, what, cos you know you're moving out now?
[Leona:] Mm.
[speaker001:] . Erm... I just want to go back and talk about a few things we just touched on earlier. Er now you were saying about crime in the area. Erm have y you had your, your purse stolen?
[Leona:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Have, have you ever had trouble with kerb crawlers or anything like that?
[Leona:] Well a couple of times. But er maybe once or twice, as I say I usually go out with my kids, and they don't usually stop you. look at me but otherwise, you know, they don't usually stop you if you've got a kid with you.
[speaker001:] And can you... does it, I mean obviously it bothers you, but I mean...
[Leona:] Well I just tell them to get lost in not so [LAUGHTER] polite words [].
[speaker001:] So what, what do you actually think about the er the prostitutes, and...?
[Leona:] Well, I mean er I've got nothing against them. I mean, in fact I, I'm one of the people that believe that in, in a way it should be, it should be legalized.... I think it should be legalized. But erm, it's the kerb crawlers, I mean I've always thought that if it wasn't for prostitutes, there's going to be a hell of a lot more rapes around, so
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Leona:] Mm.
[speaker001:] So just keeping on the same sort of subject, of sex, drugs and,
[Leona:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] violence, erm the other people I've spoken to have mentioned blues parties, now d have you ever had?
[Leona:] Yeah, I've had blues parties next door.
[speaker001:] Could you just t tell me about what actually happened?
[Leona:] Well it wasn't too bad actually, cos when I went upstairs and shut every door and I wouldn't, didn't really hear anything.... next door didn't really bother me, cos once I'd shut the door, shut the doors, it was, there was hardly any noise, but then erm... the guy that had got the place, he wasn't living there, lent it out to somebody else, blues, and they moved them u upstairs as well. And erm I wasn't actually in the bedroom, and that did bother me. I had one night of that, and when he came round in the morning, I told him. I mean luckily enough, I went to junior school with him. I mean if I hadn't have known him, then there's no way I could have talked to him about it. I mean I says, look I says, I'm not, I'm not saying you can't have your parties or whatever, I says but I says not in the bedrooms.... I says, er that that is going a bit too far, I think.
[speaker001:] Erm how loud were they? I mean did they keep you awake?
[Leona:] Very loud that night, very loud. I say, the other night, I say it didn't really bother me, but like I'm a heavy sleeper anyway. But I could just not get to sleep that night, and she was only a baby at the time, she couldn't sleep....
[speaker001:] Er what, what, what time did they start and finish, did the blues parties?
[Leona:] Erm, about one o'clock, and finished about half past six, seven....
[speaker001:] Mm do you get any trouble from the people coming out of the parties, or going in, did they?
[Leona:] No, the door knocked once or twice, but I mean that, that didn't bother me, so I was asleep m most of the time.
[speaker001:] Erm er... is, is that the only experience you've had with blues parties?
[Leona:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Mm... right now, now you mention that you phoned the police about when you had your purse stolen, erm are y have, what do you think of the police presence around the flats? I mean is it helpful, or, or what?
[Leona:] Non-existent. And if it is, I mean they don't do much. Erm
[speaker001:] Have you seen policemen patrolling the flats?
[Leona:] Oh yeah, I've seen them. I've seen them, but I mean if, if they saw anything, I think they'd just turn a blind eye to most of it.... Mm.
[speaker001:] Have, have you seen anything like that happen, or is...?
[Leona:] Well I don't know how true it is but I have heard from somebody I know, whose husband was a... a plumber, and he came to unplug a toilet at the erm Cricket Players when it closed down, he had to unplug it. And he found a hell of a lot of flesh down the toilet, human flesh. And he said from the looks of it there must have been you know sort of dead, whatever it was, and there was a couple of fingers and a couple of toes, right? But erm police went to visit him again, and says erm you know that's it, you know, you won't, won't, you won't even be needed to make a statement about where you found it, which he thought was a bit funny. I mean whether they hushed it up or not I don't know.... But I mean I say, I don't know how true that is, I mean I only heard that through somebody else....
[speaker001:] I see. Er talking about er plumbers and er people like that, have erm have, how are you finding getti getting things repaired in the flat?
[Leona:] Well I had to, I had to wait for about eight months or was it s six months to get one of my lights fixed but for er other things they were quite quick actually.
[speaker001:] Is that by using the Housing Office on the flat?
[Leona:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Are they very helpful there?
[Leona:] Mm. Yes. I found them so.
[speaker001:] Do you think it helps them being up with the?
[Leona:] Oh yeah. Er I think it does, I think they should have one, one of those sort of places in every not in every complex, but in every estate....
[speaker001:] D do you think your, your... amenity-wise er the flats like they they've got the housing, and the clubs and the playgroup and stuff like that, do you think you're very badly off for that or?
[Leona:] No no, amenity-wise, you're okay, but I mean amenities doesn't make up for sort of living standards you've got, does it?...
[speaker001:] S so I mean do you try and u do you use things around the area? Er
[Leona:] Not much no. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Wh why's that?
[Leona:] Because I just don't go out much, that's all.
[speaker001:] Mm.... Do you think is a
[Leona:] [talking to child] Shh.
[speaker001:] particularly friendly place or?
[Leona:] No.... No....
[speaker001:] Er what makes you say that?
[Leona:] Cos I haven't found it so, that's why.
[speaker001:] But I mean... d do you think the people are more unfriendly around here than they are in other parts of the town?
[Leona:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Just the people living around here?... Did erm
[Leona:] Yeah, I think it's b as I say it's because I think people are wary I mean... you know, not sure who's who....
[speaker001:] Er do you find people mix around here very well though? I mean,s I mean there's, it's a multi-racial area. Do you think that people mix well, or is it a, do, do you feel
[Leona:] No everybody keeps themselves to themselves, I think which is a shame really, cos erm I think they do that all over the country anyway, most of them, they keep themselves to themselves....
[speaker001:] Right. Now... you're moving to Bilborough, you're moving to Bilborough erm just say in five years time they got rid of the flats erm and they built houses on here on the site, would you move back?
[Leona:] No. [talking to child] Shh shh.
[speaker001:] Erm is that because of the v the area, or because?
[Leona:] Well, I'll be settled in, in my own little place by then, I mean I don't want to move back here, plus that fact that I, I wouldn't want to move back here anyway....