[speaker001:] think do it in a situation which invites this informal repertoire erm
[speaker002:] Mm I mean I, I did, one thing last er a few weeks ago is that I er cos I m it's a... I do this market research it's really boring
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] people are just looking for a diversion so erm
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I started up le let's a compile a famous lesbian list
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and erm it started off with I suggested a few, you know, well know lesbians
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] and er then people were coming along and saying the woman in the sandwich shop
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] she's not famous, yeah but she's a lesbian.
[speaker003:] How do you know? Mm.
[speaker002:] How do you know? Cos she's miserable. And laughing
[speaker003:] Oh right! [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] and she says oh, he said oh yeah I feel really miserable today, I feel like a right lesbian! And he's
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker002:] really laughing at them
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] and then someone said er they were saying people like er Peter Stringfellow
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] which, I've never heard, no but we don't like them.
[speaker003:] Oh I see so it's still you know,i insults, you know, it's something, something to say about people you don't like.
[speaker002:] And the whole, we, we, we sort of
[speaker003:] Yeah, mhm.
[speaker002:] and then someone said Barbra Streisand and then someone said she can't be cos she's nice
[speaker003:] [sighing] Mm []
[speaker002:] and then [LAUGHTER] I said []
[speaker003:] yeah.
[speaker002:] I said what do you mean sh oh I didn't mean it like that I meant she can't be because I like her. I went ha
[speaker003:] Oh right.
[speaker002:] that makes it alright does it? Peo
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] people are sort of
[speaker003:] Well it's it, it's very much like, you know, a lot of things I've come across in everyday language where, where people, I don't know, er friends and relatives have found out that somebody's been gay, oh well I never thought it of him, he seemed like such a nice person as well
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you know it's almost as if it's like er you know a sort of negative thing to, to, to find out about somebody erm so erm... yeah I mean I think I, so I think you'll, I think you'll, you'll... of necessity have to try and do something which captures this, this sort of informal talk because as soon as people commit themselves to writing they're gonna be erm [sigh] they're gonna be
[speaker002:] On the defensive.
[speaker003:] well not exactly g gonna be on the defensive because it's, I don't, it's, it's, it's no less, it's no less genuine, you know it's, it's part, it's, it's, it's a view that they can express in different circumstances,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] it's like sort of a guy comes into lectures and, and, and he can be, particularly when talking about things like racism and disability, be quite liberal as it were, you know, and that kind of when you get him... down the pub all on his own er a quite different repertoire comes out so er
[speaker002:] situational.
[speaker003:] Yes it's very situational, erm I think, as I think human beings are so erm... so, so I think you, you're gonna have to
[speaker002:] So I've got to
[speaker003:] crack, go for the erm yeah
[speaker002:] go in the pub?
[speaker003:] yeah, yeah. Sort of erm if you erm tt I don't know, in some way succeed in, in noting or recording or, or something erm you know whatever it is that people are doing. Erm... mm so how, how did we get on to that? Just remind me. Erm
[speaker002:] That was just I wa I wanted to get like some
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah, mm.
[speaker002:] kind of pilot of how pe
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] erm because a lot of this questionnaire
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] is based on that people have got an i you know they, they sort of identify a gay person, I mean you, everybody
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] said I wouldn't like to be in a room with homosexuals
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] er a lot of the time, I was talking to someone at er
[speaker003:] Well in a sense how do you know you're not, as it were you know in many cases []. Mm.
[speaker002:] Yeah well I was talking, I was talking to a friend and they said that, you know, there's some homophobic attacks and some of them just happen to occur because people are walking in a gay area
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know sort of ooh he's gotta be a poof so they er duff him up just cos he happens
[speaker003:] Mm yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] to be walking past a pub
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] erm and I was just thinking about erm how people actually label people
[speaker003:] Yeah. So I mean maybe, maybe there's context, maybe there's the sort of situation oh this, this is an area where, you know, kind of this is an area that's full of poofs so he must be erm
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] sometimes it may be to do with dress, demeanour, mannerisms, you know, kind of again you know people go for [sigh] oh I don't know, I mean there's a conversation er I remember overhearing erm... with some friends in Leicester and they, they go to motorbike rallies a lot and erm er they were describing an incident where they pitched their tent at a rally and some blokes came up and pitched their tent next to them and they were erm two blokes had arrived together on the same enormous immaculate motorbike and they'd got sort of matching leather outfits erm
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] you know this is the sort of thing and really, you know, sort of cropped hair and enormous moustaches like yard brushes, or this is the story that was told to me, and, and then there was this, all this, all this chortling about why their moustaches were so lubricant, oh yes, er so, so luxurious er rather, I beg your pardon, and erm
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] you know kind of there's all this... quips about sort of semen making your hair grow and all that kind of thing erm you know so erm... it's, it's, it's one of these things that erm sort of erm kind of people, people s slip into on the basis of... you know th er as far as I could tell there was no sort of firm evidence that these blokes were gay or heterosexual apart from judgments made on their demeanour and personal appearance erm... you know but er you know it gave rise to a whole range of, you know, kind of supposedly humorous talk erm in that context erm... so... there's a whole range of things erm tt you know sort of talk and mannerisms and, and er, you know, kind of also gossip and suspicions about them, oh is he married... if not does he have a girlfriend, if not ooh I wonder if he's gay, you know, kind of things that we understand about people's relationships feed into it so
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] oh there's loads and loads of stuff erm tt... which I think people can use flexibly in different circumstances, you know, depending on what information they have about somebody so
[speaker002:] Mm. I mean I've got a rough idea of what the things are
[speaker003:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker002:] I just wanted to actually, you know,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] get it from, you know, what people do
[speaker003:] Yeah yeah certainly, erm I think that's er... that's good, well if, if you can, if you can access it er in some way informally or, or, you know, it's probably un unlikely that you'd get too much stuff in writing as you say but, you know, er it could be very er [sigh] productive and interesting erm... tt erm can that sort of thing, particularly if you can get it in terms of quotes from people, you can sort of, you know, make a project look quite nice because it looks like if you do all this, you know, sort of stuff with the attitude scales it, it's... [sigh] er it gives you lots of nice numerical data but er
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] particularly if you can supplement this and, and show how it erm fits into the way people discuss these issues, you know here's some real talk, here's some real quotes, you know, er stuff like that, it can look quite yeah, yeah, great.
[speaker002:] Yeah. I, I mean I want to actually put in some you know some real kind of, you know, rather
[speaker003:] Yeah, mm.
[speaker002:] than just
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] qualitative stuff as well.
[speaker003:] Yeah right, so er [sigh] yeah... so it's... anyway it's... it's difficult to know how you're gonna get it but er I wish you, I wish you luck in, in, in doing so. Erm... tt
[speaker002:] Well I'm, I'm gonna use some of the er I mean I've got some of the er I made notes of some of the quotes I got from compiling
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] the famous lesbian list
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah
[speaker002:] And I can use some of those
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] about Barbra Streisand
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but I probably can't use her... will I be able to use names which
[speaker003:] Of course you can, yes, if it's, if it's
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] celebrities, erm if it's, you know, individuals at work erm... you know er perhaps it's appropriate to use pseudonyms but erm you know with celebrities I mean people do projects about, you know, kind of soap stars and things like that and say
[speaker002:] Oh well yeah.
[speaker003:] say what people have said about them so, you know, it seems to be much the same sort of thing. Erm... yeah let's see if there's anything else I, I remember thinking when I, when I had a look through this erm... so er... [sigh] yeah erm... oh great so Yeah, mm mm
[speaker002:] I mean there are some really ex extreme ones and
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] I'll just have to omit there.
[speaker003:] Yeah I think, I think that's probably just as well because erm let's say... you know it's being answered by somebody who's gay themselves or lesbian themselves or you know kind of is, is heterosexual but has sort of anti-homophobic sympathies
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] I mean you don't want to kind of put them off too much erm
[speaker002:] Mm maybe you put people on their guard like
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] the, the christian erm the born again christian council I mean some of the quotes I got from people
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] things like erm
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] homosexuality will er will lead to an increase in murders and sadistic er
[speaker003:] Mm
[speaker002:] sex crimes.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Mm.
[speaker002:] I mean I, I
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I couldn't use that.
[speaker003:] Yeah. I mean that's a, a thing that er I remember seeing a TV documentary and there was this bloke, I dunno if he was from the Terence Higgins Trust, I don't think so, but erm er anyway he was going on about this, this very thing that there's often... the homophobic imagination er has this sort of slippage between... you know, consenting adult activity and if you're gay, if you're homosexual then this probably means that you're also interested in seducing children, you're also interested in sado-masochistic activity er you're also interested in, you know, a whole variety of other, you know, things which...
[speaker002:] But it's
[speaker003:] you know the sort of er, the sort of disgusting to the straight polity erm
[speaker002:] it's it's exactly the same
[speaker003:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker002:] thing if you think about is as it's used for drugs
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] you know if people wanna smoke a bit of pot then this is
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] obviously gonna lead to sort of drug addiction.
[speaker003:] Absolutely yes. Yes there's this sort of escalation model
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] which is very powerful in, in, in, mm
[speaker002:] You start off drinking then you smoke and you, yeah
[speaker003:] Yeah, mm. Yes, though it's interesting with, with, with things like er... alcohol and tobacco because they're, well at least partly legal, erm you know often there's quite a, a crisp Manichaean division drawn between them and anything that's illegal erm you know so that you know kind of once, once you start smoking dope you're on the slippery slope to er you know kind of [sigh] heroin and crack and all the rest of it
[speaker002:] crime.
[speaker003:] yes and, and crime of course, yes, absolutely, erm... er... so erm... yeah er... [sigh] yeah and go in thinking about the er thinking about the questions erm
[speaker002:] I mean you didn't spot any that just look, you know, glaringly
[speaker003:] I didn't spot any that er that were glaringly, do bear in mind that I read this quite late last night after I got in from that, that meeting I went to
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] so erm er [] I can't guarantee that I was totally compos mentis when I read it but er I'm
[speaker002:] Well I mean I'm, I'm just
[speaker003:] I'm just thinking, you know, mm
[speaker002:] I'm reasonably happy with them but I mean I know
[speaker003:] Mm, yeah.
[speaker002:] you've sort of had a lot of experience of constructing things like this so you, you know, probably, I mean if I'm gonna make an error I think it'd be a glaring one.
[speaker003:] Yeah, mm, yeah so erm [sigh] I think mm yeah I think, I think with something like this, with questionnaires really the, the, the acid test is actually trying to administer them and then you see the problems very often
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm it's very difficult to spot what's going to go wrong in advance and some of the things you suspect are dodgy nobody has any trouble with, some of the things that you... just didn't occur to you that would go wrong do go wrong, it's like, mm mm, yeah mm
[speaker002:] doing that that's why I thought I'd get, you know, a response out of people
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah but erm well a absolutely, erm but er
[speaker002:] The thing is I've omitted I've omitted things like sin
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] homosexuality is a sin cos I mean I think that's tapping into religion as much as to
[speaker003:] Yeah quite erm
[speaker002:] erm
[speaker003:] so er yeah
[speaker002:] I don't know what, I mean some people may, you know, may not even perceive you know... the concept of sin so I got rid of that
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] I also got rid of anything to, that mentioned morality
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker002:] cos I mean that's
[speaker003:] Fair enough.
[speaker002:] to sex behaviour anyway.
[speaker003:] Mm. Yeah so let's see if there's anything I remember. Erm... mm... yeah erm
[speaker002:] I'm gonna also... sort of preface it with erm... instructions to sort of say okay look
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] when the term homosexual is used it can be male, female specified.
[speaker003:] Right yeah, mhm, yeah yeah, fair enough, mhm.
[speaker002:] so to stop too much confusion.
[speaker003:] Yeah great and you can have a little spiel in there about sort of confidentiality and your views are important whatever they are and, and a little bit of blurb about filling in the scale and, you know, the usual sort of standard stuff
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm so er... tt I think the other thing that'll be nice if erm... er given, if the first years are filling it in er in about a week and a half's time, if we could... if you could try and bash some of the data in fairly rapidly so that, you know kind of before the end of term we can, you know, kind of give them a brief digest of how, what, what the results were
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] so that they, they're getting something back as well as
[speaker002:] Yeah I mean, yeah
[speaker003:] as er, as, as, as doing something erm but erm yeah it's certainly possible to er to do the first years. Erm... yeah er... mm... yeah... no I'm quite intrigued myself about this, this idea that erm somehow it's heterosexuals who trus who are trustworthy and that, you know, once you have a sexuality that's different from heterosexuality then you can't be trusted with children and you, you know you, you can't be trusted to er [sigh] you know I don't know, run boys' clubs, you can't be trusted in, in a, you know, it's sort of, it's almost like, like erm... er... it, it almost flies in the face of evidence that the vast majority of sexual abuse that goes on of one sort or another is, is heterosexual, it's
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] very often men abusing women and yet, you know, when you're looking at erm attitudes to gay and lesbian people it's often the case that they're, you know, somehow thought of as, as suspect.
[speaker002:] Mm. I think a lot of the time, I mean homosexuality has been perceived historically as like a, you know, if not an illness a weakness
[speaker003:] Mm mm.
[speaker002:] and er
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] people are told to go and have a cold shower and not give in to the weakness
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] not give in to the weakness
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] so I think they recognize that everyone has homosexual
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] thoughts
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] it's just the people who, who sort of gave in to them were, were sort of weaker than other people
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah
[speaker002:] so if they gave in to that one temptation
[speaker003:] Mm
[speaker002:] they'll sort of give in to other temptations.
[speaker003:] Oh right yeah, yeah
[speaker002:] But it's like
[speaker003:] and, you know, they'll be tempted to put their fingers in the till and, and pilfer from work and, and, and
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] you know, all sorts of other things as well because they're, they're morally suspect, don't have the fortitude. Mm. Tt yeah... yeah erm... yeah I mean it's interesting when you come to attitudes to parenthood erm I think that's quite an important issue because it does tap into a whole range of things about erm [sigh] you know kind of er suspicions that somehow if gay or lesbian people raise children then the children'll either be, you know, sort of corrupted or converted themselves
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm you know never mind that most children who are beaten or abused or die at their, the hands of their parents er you know, do so at the hands of their heterosexual parents
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm you know it's still er you know, considered problematic. Mm. Mm.
[speaker002:] version of most gay people come from heterosexual homes anyway, so
[speaker003:] Absolutely yeah and er... you know kind of er it's absolutely impossible to, to determine exactly what it is that's, that's, you know, propelling people's sexuality isn't it?
[speaker002:] I, I mean
[speaker003:] You know, it's still
[speaker002:] I mean I yeah I included those because I thought a lot of pe even the sort of... most
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] right on people
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] are gonna have problems where children are concerned parenthood.
[speaker003:] Yes I think there's some, yeah yeah I, I think there's, that's one of the, the areas where... er as it were attitudes are most small C conservative, that er sort of liberal heterosexuals whom I know er you know are often quite suspicious of that.
[speaker002:] Erm
[speaker003:] And I usually say well once, once, once gay and lesbian people start beating their kids like heterosexuals I'll, I'll agree with you but erm [sigh] erm tt so er mm
[speaker002:] I mean I know that there, there were
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] I mean I did read somewhere there were some studies done
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] er on the American sort of er gay
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] couples that have adopted
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and the children were sort of actually more, you know,
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker002:] psychologically bal well balanced you know
[speaker003:] Yeah yeah mm.
[speaker002:] as, as they define it
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] than the sort of the, a controlled
[speaker003:] Well I think I think growing up with gay or lesbian parents I think, I think could be a very mind broadening experience for people it will certainly teach you about social life in a, in a lot of different ways that er
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] people in heterosexual families wouldn't find out about erm and it teaches you ways of dealing with prejudice and discrimination, on the assumption that you, you, you do learn to deal with them, and er
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] all sorts of stuff like that.... Yeah erm... oh well looks like we're nearly drifting towards the end, again as I, as I say I'm, I'm, I'm fairly, pretty happy with the questions erm you know er going back to what I was saying earlier I was just thinking that some of them might be more... f easily phrased as non directional statements and you have the, you know, kind of have the words in the scales yeah right, good, so yeah
[speaker002:] Yeah I mean I'm definitely gonna put some words I think that
[speaker003:] erm as regards correlating things together and bunging them into the same factor analysis model and stuff like that er even if the questions are a bit different I think you can still do that legitimately because it's still sort of expressing the strength of opinion on some sort of scale erm so I don't see that that'll er interfere with the ambitions you've got as regards the data erm... so er
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] anyway I'm afraid I haven't sort of scribbled anything on that but you know kind of that's er
[speaker002:] No that's quite good enough, that's good.
[speaker003:] you know just, just thoughts I had as I was reading through it as best I can remember them so er mm
[speaker002:] But I mean this one I'm, I've got... I, I would feel comfortable knowing that I, I was attracted to
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] so I put if I was attracted to my
[speaker003:] Er how, how or something like how would, how would you feel if you felt attracted to a member of your own sex or something yeah, yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh you'd you'd ask it in the form of a question?
[speaker003:] And you can bung, you can bung some bipolar adjectives underneath it of one sort or another er
[speaker002:] So I mean questions as opposed to statements.
[speaker003:] Er yeah, yeah, yeah erm
[speaker002:] Okay that's great.
[speaker003:] I know when, when invented scales back in the early thirties er typically they were declarative statements which people had to agree or disagree with erm but er I think perhaps more recently people have gone more for things that are a bit like... how would you feel, what do you think type statements erm so er
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm
[speaker002:] Yeah I think that'd break it up and I think
[speaker003:] The erm mm
[speaker002:] it'd be a bit boring with just the agree or disagree.
[speaker003:] Yeah, fair enough, so
[speaker002:] Right that's great.
[speaker003:] okay right so best of luck to you anyway if you
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker003:] sort of get that er sort of er get a, a neat copy run off we might be able to get it down for repro to reprographics in time for er Tuesday week with a bit of luck
[speaker002:] That should be no problem at all.
[speaker003:] Yeah good.
[speaker002:] Okay cheers, thanks a lot for your help.
[speaker003:] Okay? Cheers.... Oh hello. Ah hello erm do come in. Yeah right oh well, now then... now I'm afraid erm I'm doing a project for the British National Corpus which involves er trying to record everyday conversations so I've, I've got a microphone on, I hope you don't mind. Er
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Oh well never mind erm but, but, you know, informal consent and all that kind of thing so er right anyway erm... so er how's it going?
[speaker004:] Well I've been told, well I I was gonna come and see you anyway
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I'm a bit behind in my coursework and whatever
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] well, I'm a bit behind full stop.
[speaker003:] Yeah. So er
[speaker004:] Just to
[speaker003:] Mm. So... what s what, well let let's get on to something a bit more s as it were specific, I mean what sort of things are you, are you behind with and having difficulty with then?
[speaker004:] Erm... well I'm still on stuff from last term.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Which
[speaker004:] Er well it's just I'm ha it's not that I'm having more difficulty with one thing than another, it's just that I haven't, I didn't get round to doing them.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah erm... is that gonna be a problem that's gonna recur in the future do you think? Or... do you
[speaker004:] Erm...
[speaker003:] do you think you'll be able to get sorted
[speaker004:] well to be honest
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I find it quite difficult like
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] everything.
[speaker003:] Ah right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Erm are there any specific areas of difficulty like you know sort of things like statistics, things like, you know, erm [sigh] I dunno, other bits and pieces that er you know give you particular problems?
[speaker004:] [sighing] Er [] subject itself
[speaker003:] Yeah erm
[speaker004:] I'd just don't know how to go with it, I dunno what to do.
[speaker003:] yeah erm
[speaker004:] I'm... I'm alright on stats
[speaker003:] Yeah. It's... what, what were you doing before you came here? Was it, was it like A levels or er
[speaker004:] Erm well I I'm a mature student
[speaker003:] Oh right.
[speaker004:] but I've had a few years out
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] but er er
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] you know.
[speaker003:] I think that's not uncommon actually if you, when you get people who've, who've been away from the education system for a f a few years and I think it's almost like mature students do have more anxiety than people who come straight from school generally speaking I think erm
[speaker004:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you know more likely to... worry about work, more likely to feel that they're, they're not quite coping, more likely to feel erm [sigh] you know that, that somehow everybody else is getting on with it and, and, and, and they can't, I mean that's just, you know, going from what people have told me so so it's more, it's more, oh right
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] but sometimes actually it's a more, you know, kind of it's, it's, it's not really because they've got problems but it's just because they, they're, they're, they're sort of more diligent and more, you know, more motivated but erm yeah getting on to
[speaker004:] What more motivated?
[speaker003:] Well in some cases, in some cases it is, I'm not saying every time but
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] you know I mean sometimes it is erm... so, I mean is there anything that you think, you know, we could change or you could change to, to like improve the situation?... So, you know, is there anything, is it about the way you work, is it about the way the course is taught, is it about [sigh] you know sort of reassurance and pastoral type stuff, is it about, you know, what?
[speaker004:] All of them I think [LAUGHTER] but seriously
[speaker003:] All of them. [LAUGHTER] Er mm
[speaker004:] it's that erm... erm originally I couldn't get like the motivation
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and I had trouble like er... cos I come from like, I've got like science
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] and physics and all that sort of stuff I mean I
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker004:] haven't written an essay for like a
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I mean you're talking like [sigh] I mean years, I mean really it's
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I can't remember the last essay I wrote
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and I really have problems
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] with that sort of thing
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] and er I just haven't... it's like erm I just haven't put the time in
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I just haven't been able to motivate myself to put the time in
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I've ch that's changing a bit now cos erm
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] yeah I'm ge as I'm getting into the course like I've gotta realize that I've gotta do it but
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] er... it's just not knowing where to go with it
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] and er the stuff that I write is just rubbish, basically.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] You know what I mean?
[speaker003:] Erm... well I mean that's the... you know one of, one of the things that er... a lot of people contend with. I mean some people adopt the approach of trying to d do it all in about two hours just before the deadline so they don't have time to feel self critical erm I think perhaps if you can, you know, rather than, rather than trying to do it all at once I mean the business of, of going through successive drafts of things and gradually getting them better and better, I mean the first drafts of things that I write are, are usually just scribbles on the back of a piece of paper that's, with something else on the front
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] they're usually just notes, they're usually ill formed and... not very well backed up and ill thought out and then gradually you know you sort of go through it again and you can fit more detail in
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and gradually you can go through it again and sort of fit the references in and, you know, so gradually, and then, then you find it's too big and then you sort of go through it again and try and knock some stuff out so
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I mean often actually producing pieces of writing is, is, is quite a, you know, sort of long drawn out sort of er iterative process I suppose in, in mathematical terms erm you know you kind of go through it again and again erm I mean that's one thing you ca but obviously that's quite time consuming er
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] so er [sigh] erm and don't forget in the first year all you've got to do is pass
[speaker004:] Yeah
[speaker003:] erm it's just a qualifying year, yeah well everybody says that but you know it's worth
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] bearing in mind that you've
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] just gotta put something in that... in the coursework and the exams that sort of gets you over the forty percent barrier and in psychology it's not that difficult to sort of waffle your way up to forty percent erm [LAUGHTER] without wishing ma to make it sound too easy erm
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] it's not like my brother did in his physics degree where he sort of ended up getting twelve percent overall in his second year and then took the year again and got six percent erm that's very difficult to do in psychology erm so er mm but, you know, so er given that it's a sort of fairly discursive thing it's, it's, you know, it's probably, in some ways it's probably less difficult than you think. Erm yes
[speaker004:] Yeah but I mean I think the stuff, the stuff that I've written is like rubbish, it's like... I dunno
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] it sounds like something you get on
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] you know like television progra you know the really sort of
[speaker003:] Oh right, yeah.
[speaker004:] chatty type stuff?
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I just ca I just... I've never done psychology before you see and so it's like erm
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker004:] there's no, there's no er sources to it and I mean it's just like
[speaker003:] Yeah, mm. [sigh] Yeah I know it's... well again, you know, kind of once you can see, once you can see what's wrong with it rather than just sort of, you know, screwing it up and throwing it away, you know kind of if you can use that as a basis for, for, you know, kind of putting more of the stuff in that makes it look a bit more academic
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm you know kind of er call that a first draft and then sort, you know, sort of try and... sort of go through the books again and stick a few references in to back up the points you've made so you can see it relates to other people's evidence erm trying to go through it again and... knock out the... well you know what I mean kind of statements and, and, you know, you can gradually sort of make the er... grad you know sort of but again it's, it's, it's one of these processes that I find, you know, you need to go through again and again and again to sort of get it er get it together erm... [sigh] so erm...
[speaker004:] What shall I do about the stuff that I haven't done?
[speaker003:] Erm... well I'll... if you could, if you could do me a list of, of what you've, what you've missed so far so we know where we are as it were erm what er mm
[speaker004:] I need two on
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I need two by the end of the term.
[speaker003:] Yeah whi which, which
[speaker004:] and
[speaker003:] which two
[speaker004:] I did the erm tt... er what's it called? Erm...
[speaker003:] Well there's that tutorial essay thing possibly
[speaker004:] Yeah I did that one
[speaker003:] Yeah
[speaker004:] and I did the erm... the one about the information crisis.
[speaker003:] Whose tutor group where you in?
[speaker004:] Erm Mr.
[speaker003:] Oh right. Have you had that back yet or er
[speaker004:] No.
[speaker003:] No. Oh right well I'll erm... er... see er I'll, I'll see if I can catch Ian and, and, and see what, see what's happened to it
[speaker004:] It's bullshit. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Oh right [] oh well, not to worry but mm yeah but you know
[speaker004:] I mean cos it was, it was bad actually I mean I actually
[speaker003:] kind of if you do, if you do manage to get some, some feedback on some of the stuff you've done so far it may turn out that it wasn't as bad as all that, you know
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] it may turn out that it hasn't failed miserably but, you know, there may be various ways in which you could improve it which you might, you know, if you're lucky he might have sort of written on, round the sides and round the edges and erm that's you know kind of one of the things that you can build on erm you know a lot of you know kind of build on, build on the criticism as it were and build on the things that people say could improve it erm
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and er you know I think coming to a, a university is a thing that... you know like it's a very sort of novel experience for a lot of people and you know certainly when I started... the human psych course here, you know about twelve, thirteen years ago erm you know I didn't know what on earth was, was requ required and I agonized over work for quite, quite a long time and er
[speaker004:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you know it's not... too uncommon but you know it's just a matter of
[speaker004:] I don't know what it is though it's
[speaker003:] kind of ge getting something in that er you know sort of satisfies the requirements of the course and most people gradually the hang of it, you know
[speaker004:] I think I will. What are you supposed to... what are you supposed to do with things like erm you get ess you get lectures
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] okay and then erm it's, it's like... like some lecturers give you like a set of notes
[speaker003:] Mm. Mhm.
[speaker004:] and some lecturers give you a set of references
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] so... and you just end up with a list of names or something like that
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] and er are you supposed to go back and like research it yourself or
[speaker003:] Well erm in some ways I mean what we're doing in, in social say, most of that you can pick up out of the textbook where it's discussed in, in rather, slightly more detail and I... stick in, you know, different kinds of examples and things like that to try and propel it along and make it a little bit different to the book erm with some of the other things, I mean for example if you erm get stuff off, I don't know, for example people like Ian erm
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm... with him I mean he doesn't tend to give handouts but you know kind of if you write ever if you succeed in, in, in taking fairly good notes erm they're very often good enough to like survive on erm
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] er if it's... people give you things like reference lists and reading lists, I mean sometimes that's the most confusing thing to be given because you don't know, I used to think you were supposed to read everything on them er and I actually tried doing that once or twice and I couldn't find stuff in Aston library so I ran up the er town library and went to Birmingham University library and then I got back the next week and I realized that I was about the only person who'd actually done that and [LAUGHTER] other people hadn't []
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and erm... you know it was erm er
[speaker004:] Too busy.
[speaker003:] yeah, absolutely, erm I think partly those things are to in when people pump out loads and loads of references, partly it's to indicate which studies the ideas, information, evidence have come from
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] so they're not just making it up out of their heads, it actually, you know, somebody really did a study on this, somebody really put this argument forward erm er partly it's to, I mean some of the things on those things you can't easily get in Aston library anyway, some of the things erm er particularly if they're references to general, you know, sort of, you know, general bits of the, you know, whatever textbook they seem to be using mostly erm
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] you know that's the sort of thing you might want to read as, as kind of background supplementary material and particularly
[speaker004:] I find it boring to
[speaker003:] Oh right erm but er well you can, you can get away without, without buying stuff erm... I mean as I, as I say some people do end up sharing erm some people do end up, not that there's very much library stock very often but, you know, some people do
[speaker004:] I've noticed that
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] I couldn't get any of the erm
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] course books like I think, I can't afford to buy them then
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] er you have to use other books
[speaker003:] Yeah. Erm again... you know with the subject matter, provided you can find stuff that does tend to cover the same sort of s topics erm it doesn't really
[speaker004:] the course is so like geared to like one textbook, you know
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] most of the time
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and I, I can't get hold of that textbook and then, and not knowing psychology before
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] you end up with like all these books and they've got a different, different sort of er... perspective on it and they've got
[speaker003:] Mm. Yeah.
[speaker004:] and they go into it in like different depths or
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] and, and you just end up with... tt you don't, you can't follow it
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker004:] and I, they do a bit and then another one, you have to go into another textbook
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and er it's just like, I just lose it totally.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Mm. Yeah I, I suppose it is a... tt it is a bit of a problem erm particularly for some of the stuff which... you know it, it tends not to be dealt with very, very deeply in sort of general textbooks like some, you know, erm I think things like... er some of the, you know some, some of the stuff that erm ah for example er people like Rob do erm
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] it's difficult to access that in general textbooks
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] because it's often quite specialized
[speaker004:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] erm some of the stuff that we end up doing in the second and final year you don't easily access through general textbooks because it's quite specialist
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm some of the stuff that you might be doing in things like perception and stuff like that erm
[speaker004:] Perce yeah perception
[speaker003:] yeah... it might be, I don't know, I think usually Roy does that but I think Dave's doing it this year or something erm er that tends to be, that tended to be something that I had difficulty with as a student because again you couldn't just sort of find one book that, that covered the lecture course
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm
[speaker004:] You have to go to like ten different
[speaker003:] Yeah yeah
[speaker004:] and most of the good ones are gone and it's like the nineteen thirty
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] ones left in the library.
[speaker003:] Right yeah erm so that can be, that can be a bit awkward but still some of the older stuff can give you a bit of a grounding in, in, in, in, in, in what it's about if you can find anything relevant and sometimes you've just got to sort of wander round the library and pick things up off the shelves like at random and see, see if you can find something in the index or find something in the contents pages that sort of vaguely coincides with what the [sigh] you know what's been talked about in the class that week erm sometimes if you keep looking you might actually be dead lucky and find one of the recommended books has actually come back in erm... you may find that you've got to be a bit flexible about that because, you know, if a topic's dealt with in November you may not get a chance to see the book until... you know kind of, I don't know, February or something, you know I mean... so it, it sometimes does mean you've got to do the reading like a bit displaced from the [sigh] from the classes
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker003:] erm... I know it, I know it, I know it's, yeah mm I, I know it's a, I know it's a problem with big, with big classes and, and, and few resources erm so er
[speaker004:] I've got few resources, I just can't afford to buy the books that's the
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah
[speaker004:] that's the thing.
[speaker003:] so... erm
[speaker004:] I'm just so behind I can't believe it, it's like
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] all of the first term went ah just like that
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] cos I was working as well that term.
[speaker003:] Mm. Are you, are you self funding or er
[speaker004:] Yeah
[speaker003:] oh right
[speaker004:] so it's like I'm working like
[speaker003:] yeah that makes it difficult as well
[speaker004:] God knows how many, although I'm not working any more I've lost the job but
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I'm looking for another one but
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] so only like, I've had the last week off
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] and I've er done an essay
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] but I can't afford to go on like that you see
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and I don't know how I'm gonna survive
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I've got all the...
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] other studying as well as the work to do.
[speaker003:] Yeah erm... well that can, that can be difficult erm I know er... when er when Dave did his psychology degree here erm he started out as an electrical engineer and he got interested
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] in psychology and chucked in electrical engineering and started a psychology course and he had to work at the same time as he studied for some of that time
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and I don't know how he managed to fit it in er but some people manage it erm it means that sometimes you, you know, you're very time limited on, on, on writing things and you don't put in something that you feel does justice to yourself, you know, you put in what you think of as crap and, and you know mm
[speaker004:] I'm just not, I'm not bothering with coursework
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] cos I mean there's loads of
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] like everyone like you talk to someone and they're like throwing up all the technical information
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] sort of jargon and you think well... it's like cos er er they're
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] all starting to get into the
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] sort of knowing what it's about now
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] even the people that didn't know before
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] did the A level and that cos like a lot of A level
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] but the people that like are new are starting to sort of oh, you know
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] oh that's the work of er
[speaker003:] Oh yeah they can say the say the, say the names and the dates and the, yeah, mm
[speaker004:] Yeah and I'm thinking well
[speaker003:] yeah.
[speaker004:] I'm gonna have to do some work on this and then erm
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] when it just comes down to it and I just don't know where to start
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] it's like... last term I didn't get anything and it was like
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I got very little notes and it's
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I just need like [sigh]
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] you know is there somewhere that I can get the subjects that I need in, in each
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] lecture just like
[speaker003:] Well erm
[speaker004:] and all that?
[speaker003:] not, not very... easily because there's different things apply to different courses like some things have got quite a lot of sort of documentation and handout materials some things
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] haven't erm er... and erm... you know some things you, you know there's the sort of one particular textbook that covers most of what we talk about in the classes, some things there isn't
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm... so I mean for example with something like statistics that covers different techniques and activities from, you know, different books erm something like erm something like social most of it comes out of that which is a thing we did because people were experiencing difficulty with it so we thought well right we'll, we'll, we'll sort of anchor the syllabus mostly to, you know, one particular book erm... so different, different staff use different techniques, some people ha have drawn on a whole variety of things and, and, and some people have just drawn on one erm I think the main priority is to try and do some coursework though in your case erm
[speaker004:] You reckon?
[speaker003:] Yeah, if there's still stuff outstanding just so you erm
[speaker004:] Well there's only one
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I've done one
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] but it's like er... it's the one for Guy about memories and
[speaker003:] Oh right, yeah.
[speaker004:] it's a bit erm it's awful but erm
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I dunno whether, should I go and see him or hand it in or what?
[speaker003:] Well I'll tell you what if you want to yeah, if you, if you want, well do, do have a word with him if you possible can erm
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] er I think, I know he's not around very much at the moment because he's supposed to be on sabbatical but, you know, erm do
[speaker004:] Oh yeah.
[speaker003:] do, do let him know er because if we... if we sort of know... you know if, if, if a, if an essay just comes in off somebody we've never met or something like that
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and it comes in late we're, we, it... doesn't it ins it doesn't make us very sympathetic but you know if, if, if, if people know who you are and, you know, you know they know you've ha they've had a conversation with you then it, it makes it easier
[speaker004:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm you know even if it does come in late so we can say oh yes I remember this person sort of thing, you know
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] stuff like that. How about, how about coursework which isn't actually due in yet like stuff for the end of this term or the beginning of next, I mean do you reckon you'll be able to have a, have a stab at that some time?
[speaker004:] I haven't started [LAUGHTER] I haven't started
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah I'll give that try but I've got this other
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] this practical for Dave in from last term
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] that's that's like
[speaker003:] Yeah well
[speaker004:] that is.
[speaker003:] as I say if you could erm if you could some time soon drop a note off in my tray about, you know, kind of what exactly you've got outstanding so I can go round and see the erm see the people concerned and, and say that you've been to
[speaker004:] just the one thing
[speaker003:] Well mm well you, you can but it'll be nice to, it will be nice to have something, something, you know, kind of some sort of list we can, we can refer to and, and say oh yes oh great he's handed that one in now and, and sort of knock it off because I know they do keep records in the office but, you know just, just something so, so we know where you are erm and it also kind of er will perhaps help concentrate the mind on what you need to get done erm [sigh] so er
[speaker004:] I know there's a
[speaker003:] and there's also
[speaker004:] practical is, is
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I'm just
[speaker003:] Yeah now that's, that's probably worth mentioning to Dave because I think one of the things he was talking about doing was instead of one of the tests or something making people hand in either some sort of lab book or some sort of record of the practical so far this term erm
[speaker004:] Yeah I hate practicals.
[speaker003:] Yeah. So erm that's, if you're, if you're getting behind on that it's worth trying to do something about it soonish before you get too far behind to manage to catch up
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm... because that's like a continuous thing erm... with... with some other stuff, if it's just like essays or projects due in at the end of this term or beginning of next, you know get, get the light stuff out of the way first erm and try... you may find it easier if you, if you, what I used to do was sort of try and, you know, pace it out a little bit and not try and write an essay all at once because I found that very difficult to do but if you just sort of write a paragraph and do, do something else for a bit and [sigh] you know kind of write another paragraph a bit later on in the day and, and, you know, kind of erm you know work, you know don't, don't try and write an essay all in one evening but try and sort of, you know, if you've managed to spread it out over the course of a few days so that you don't have to do too much at once I mean it's... difficult to concentrate on one thing
[speaker004:] just so behind on the coursework
[speaker003:] Mm. Yeah.
[speaker004:] and take the notes and that
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] cos erm... I just need to do some work on that, I've still got last term's work and everything, I just
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] you know what I mean?
[speaker003:] Well it is possible, it is possible... because erm... you know we're not necessarily dealing with anything that's horrendously difficult this year erm
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I think usually most people find the second year more intensive, there's more work to do
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and the final year I think there's sort of less on the timetable but people tend to do more work for it and do a project as well but in the, in the first year erm you know it's not that difficult to, to pass it erm... er [sigh] and there are always the, the, the referred papers in September so if you're, if you're keen to
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] well you know if, I mean if you're keen to keep on the course but just having a few difficulties
[speaker004:] Yeah
[speaker003:] then you know it's probably [LAUGHTER] it's probably possible
[speaker004:] possible yeah
[speaker003:] but erm you know I mean some people do actually get total, totally pissed off with the university and the course and everything and, and decide to chuck it in, you know, er in which case
[speaker004:] I've done that before though.
[speaker003:] Mm. Oh right.
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Where did you, where did you, where were you before?
[speaker004:] Erm I was at Manchester doing physics.
[speaker003:] Oh right, mm.
[speaker004:] And I couldn't stand physics, I just sort of
[speaker003:] Yeah I think that's what happened to my brother actually. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] Yeah can happen.
[speaker003:] Yeah.... So Mm.
[speaker004:] So I can't really er but I like this course as well,
[speaker003:] Mm yeah oh well if you find, you know, there's anything you like about it or anything interesting in it that does help because it, you know, it certainly makes it a lot easier to learn things, take information in, revise things erm... whatever.
[speaker004:] I do think it's interesting but I just er
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] it's like say, say I, say I fin say I go from here now and I
[speaker003:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker004:] I think and I think well I've got this one practical to do and I've got erm
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker004:] which I can get done and then I've got
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker004:] all this coursework that I, all this er lecture stuff that I'm behind on, lots of it
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and I don't really know where to start
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] to be honest I don't
[speaker003:] Yeah erm... tt well if I was you I'd probably try and, and keep up to date with the stuff that's happening now
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and then gradually try and re don't, don't spend too much time trying to reconstruct the past because that, you know, you just get further and further behind with the present stuff so you know kind of try and at least make sure that, you know, maybe if you get a job you won't be able to go to all the classes but at least make sure you, you are in contact with somebody who has that you can get notes off every time, you know, that erm... oh hello
[speaker001:] Hi can I come to
[speaker003:] hello can you
[speaker001:] to see you later?
[speaker003:] Erm how much later?
[speaker001:] Are you very busy? Well
[speaker003:] Erm let's see er
[speaker001:] whenever you're free
[speaker003:] er let's see, it will be this afternoon some time, erm
[speaker001:] Yeah that's fine.
[speaker003:] if you could try me about sort of some time between three and four
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker003:] I should think because I'm doing something with some students shortly and then erm there's somebody coming to see me at two so er
[speaker001:] Right I'll come up then. Thanks.
[speaker003:] Okay right. So yeah erm... so erm... tt... er yeah so oh that reminds me I think I may have left something in the lecture theatre I was in this morning, oh my God it was a letter from somebody... yes I have, oh shit! Oh dear. [LAUGHTER] Erm do you mind if I leave you for a second? I'll just nip back and see if I can get the thing. Erm... [walking] Oh excuse me.... people... right thank you [LAUGHTER]... Hello.... Hello.... Phew, just had to burst into somebody else's class and get my er... thing back. Right, yeah so erm... you know I mean that's probably the best thing to do if you try and, try and at least keep up to date with the rest of this term and er you know not er... make sure, even if you haven't been to a class at least you know what went, went on there from somebody
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm so er [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker003:] yeah I think that's probably the best thing and gradually the past you've missed might start fitting into place as it were you know if you, if you keep up with the present, I think that's probably the best thing so er and, you know, er I know it's no comfort but these things take time, you know it takes time to get socialized into something and it takes time to get used to a way of working.... [LAUGHTER] Yeah [] well I mean most people do, I mean
[speaker004:] Yeah I think I mean I will but
[speaker003:] yeah, so er... so
[speaker004:] I've gotta go and see someone else, who else should I see about this?
[speaker003:] Well er if I was you if you're, if you're missing out on stuff from, from Guy try and see Guy, if you're missing out on stuff from Dave try and see Dave
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm if erm... have you seen, seen Ian since those tutorials at all?
[speaker004:] No.
[speaker003:] Well you might want to go and ask him... er about it because he'll be presumably your, your, your personal tutor as well so erm you may be able to get some... more er you know, some, some, something off him you know kind of what he thought of your essay or something like that
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] because I haven't seen any of your written work so I can't really sort of erm er dispense any advice yet er
[speaker004:] Okay.
[speaker003:] so erm er or indeed it may be if, if you ask him or if you ask in the general office it may of erm tt it may have it may have been marked by now and so er
[speaker004:] Could be.
[speaker003:] you know er
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker003:] but er... anyway as I say see, see, see the people who, whose work you're late with so er
[speaker004:] So where can I find Guy then?
[speaker003:] Guy lives on the sixth floor in... let me see, it's on the... it's... if, if you're going along the corridor it's just past the final year notice boards, it does have a number, I've forgotten which one it is but it's on the right hand side. Dave is further down the sixth floor corridor, it's almost directly under this room
[speaker004:] Aha.
[speaker003:] and it's er the end on the left hand side if you go in there's like a little sort of... little sort of lobby and, and... Dave's is the little room sort of straight ahead of you, it's about down there somewhere
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] as the, as the woodworm crawls I suppose
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] erm so erm... yeah so, so... you know kind of get in touch with the people whose work you've missed and, and er, you know, er so at least they, when it, you know, when it does arrive they'll know... what the circumstances are so er
[speaker004:] Do you actually fail the year if you don't hand in a piece of work?
[speaker003:] Erm let's see, usually what happens is there's an exam board in June after people have hopefully done all their coursework and, and done their exams and then we decide what to do with the people er... you know who've failed something or there's stuff missing
[speaker004:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm usually if it's just one or two things people are offered the opportunity to submit a piece of work over the summer
[speaker004:] Aha.
[speaker003:] if it's just like one exam or two exams that they've failed or they've... been ill for or they've missed or something they're offered the opportunity to sit those in September... then we have another exam board in September
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and see what the situation is then. Usually most of the people who've had coursework and exams to do over the1561
[speaker004:] Yeah
[speaker003:] erm [LAUGHTER] then er [] then, then what do we do? Erm then we wonder whether to offer people the chance of, you know, offer them a resit year or whether we want to ask them to withdraw... asking people to withdraw is very rare actually, I haven't seen that done very often
[speaker004:] Oh God.
[speaker003:] so er usually people, people do, people do leave but it's usually because they, they, they're... they're sick of it or you know they, they want
[speaker004:] Oh right.
[speaker003:] to do something else elsewhere or they want to transfer to transport management or something like that as people do sometimes
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER] That's an idea. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Yeah. Er... yeah and I think people in the first term are quite attracted to it because it doesn't seem to have much on the timetable erm
[speaker004:] What transport management?
[speaker003:] transport management, yeah, erm anyway erm... so well if you, if you can... well if you can give me a list of, of what's outstanding, if you can see Dave and you can see Guy
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] er for the time being and if you ask Dave about this thing you've missed and also about what this business about erm cos he has explained it to me but I'm not quite sure about it, this business of keeping a, a sort of l record of all the practicals for this term
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] cos if you've missed the first couple of weeks' worth or so erm
[speaker004:] You only have to do eight out of ten.
[speaker003:] Oh eight out of ten, so there's still, there's still time to er still time to redeem yourself, good
[speaker004:] Yeah that's no problem.
[speaker003:] Okay. Oh well you already know about that in that case erm
[speaker004:] I know what I've gotta do but it's just doing it
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah, yeah so er
[speaker004:] erm when do you want, where do you want me to put this list then?
[speaker003:] Er well if you look in the general office erm just in on the sixth floor yeah erm it's, there's a load of plastic trays erm
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker003:] for leaving messages for staff and stuff like that, mine's the
[speaker004:] Will you know who I am?
[speaker003:] er mine's the top one it says erm well I'll, I'll reme I'll rem I'll, yeah, well it just says on it and it's the, it's the top one on the left hand side as you're facing them
[speaker004:] Okay.
[speaker003:] it's the one nearest the door
[speaker004:] So what you just want my name and
[speaker003:] Your, your name and what you're missing, yeah.
[speaker004:] Alright no problem.
[speaker003:] So er so we can er we can see where we are as it were
[speaker004:] Alright then
[speaker003:] Right [LAUGHTER] okay well [] mm, yeah Jenny's, Jenny's quite good about that sort of thing, she seems to be er be quite on the ball about who's handed in what erm
[speaker004:] Yeah she does
[speaker003:] yeah but er yeah there, there's a gre there's a great er it's a great shame actually erm we may not have Jenny for very much longer, they may not renew her contract which will be a big shame. [sigh]
[speaker004:] Have to get a petition up or something.
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah erm I dunno if it would do much good actually but er yeah but er no she, she's, she's quite good about you know sort of erm you know kind of keeping an eye on students and, and stuff like that, anyway er so if you could [LAUGHTER] right []
[speaker004:] see you see you again
[speaker003:] Er right see you soon then. Bye.... Hello tape recorder, you seemed to go off there for a while, I'm just checking that you're still working again, thanks very much.... So that's why I'm going around with a little machine and a microphone on
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] and they're trying to get some record of, of what
[speaker005:] It's best to explain it you know.
[speaker003:] yeah sort of Eng er how English is spoken sort of around er in different, you know, circumstances in private places and universities and television and all sorts of things like that.
[speaker005:] A lot of things and don't knows
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] with me so
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] Right.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Okay?
[speaker005:] What it was it's from this book really
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] which... was this study
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] here which I've read about, it's got erm articles about the blind, dreams of the blind
[speaker003:] Oh yeah?
[speaker005:] now... what, what it actually was was... er some... a systematic set of questions about the natural experience of people prone to auditory and visual images, number of people in
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] now I've looked it up, that's supposed to actually be in our library
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] but it's not now I've
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] left a note for a while now them
[speaker003:] Is, mm
[speaker005:] to try and locate it but
[speaker003:] er what er
[speaker005:] It's the
[speaker003:] is it a book or a journal?
[speaker005:] no it's a journal, it's the
[speaker003:] Erm
[speaker005:] erm... disease, mental disease or something
[speaker003:] well is it er there's a thing about general nervous and mental dis
[speaker005:] general nervous and mental disease, that's the one, yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah Oh right.
[speaker005:] It's one of seventy which is supposedly the first one they've got
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] there but [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Oh right erm well often the coverage, even when they think they've got it, is not terribly good
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm for some reason certain issues don't seem to have appeared in the first place
[speaker005:] No.
[speaker003:] or if they have people have nicked them and, and
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker003:] all sorts of other things.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] It's er it's not that obscure er have you checked Birmingham University library or anything like that? It might be worth a, a bit of bus riding around
[speaker005:] I haven't yet no, no cos, yeah I was
[speaker003:] and you might be able to get it erm
[speaker005:] me and Gareth wanna go over there and you know I'll
[speaker003:] Oh yes, yes.
[speaker005:] and he wants to get it for his disability project to see if he can get
[speaker003:] Oh right so, mhm
[speaker005:] you know I think we're gonna take a trip over anyway so
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah excellent, good, so you might be able to find some more stuff.
[speaker005:] Right erm questionnaire, I've got in contact with the Institute again
[speaker003:] Yeah?
[speaker005:] erm with these people
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] erm she said she thought everything would be okay apart from partial blind due to accident after teenage years cos it's basically it's actually a college
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] which she said they do have people who don't progress much staying on
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] but on the whole it's like
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] you know sixteen to... mostly
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] sixteen to twenty one year olds
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] so erm
[speaker003:] So er
[speaker005:] see talk I'm talking about twenty five
[speaker003:] okay so it, yeah it looks like quite a reasonable number of people possibly
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] yeah? Good.
[speaker005:] Yeah. Oh and she's just said you know get 'em a questionnaire done, that was really what was
[speaker003:] Yeah yeah fine.
[speaker005:] you know wanted to get with you really.
[speaker003:] Yes erm
[speaker005:] Erm... right... yeah this was just asking myself really and for you
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] erm... right in the book and other ones I've read, cos I've also got, well I've got quite a few journals with
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah, good.
[speaker005:] with the various ones so erm... some of them done like open ended, see what I was wondering was, where, I wrote this... [LAUGHTER] organized here []
[speaker003:] Yeah....
[speaker005:] Yeah it was analyzing it erm... whether I wanted to do general questions on general dreams that A
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] tell me how their dreams are formed
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] or... which is one which they've done in there, is take a specific dream which they've had which is vivid to them
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] and describe with all feelings and everything
[speaker003:] Yeah
[speaker005:] and trying to
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] as opposed to as prompting questions to ask
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] about analysis or me giving them the dream and I have to sort of like get out for myself what
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] how they do it.
[speaker003:] Well I mean you could do a bit of both, I don't see why you can't sort of start out with some general stuff about whether
[speaker005:] That's what, that's what I was thinking, that's what I was thinking of doing, yeah.
[speaker003:] they actually experience dreams at all
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] you know because some people claim not to, blind and sighted, er you know and then, then maybe you can sort of say well, you know, what sort of things do you see, what sort of things do you feel and then get on to something specific
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you know, can you think of one you might've had last night or one that you particularly remember or something like that
[speaker005:] Yeah. They've had some
[speaker003:] and try and
[speaker005:] incredible dreams
[speaker003:] oh right so you actually er mm.
[speaker005:] it's really funny, yeah I, I went over there erm it was really to meet the woman but I ended up erm she said do you wanna spend the afternoon with them
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] so they had like an hour break so I spent... in a room. See the trouble, the trouble which I found was it was difficult trying, you know, it's not about dream con you know it's not about
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] dream meaning and
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] they were sort of like you know interested in what I you know you see what I mean? It was difficult
[speaker003:] Oh yeah, so yeah, absolutely yes there's that er whenever anything's to do with dreaming
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] there's that suspicion that you're trying to
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] er access what their personality's all about, you know they, mm
[speaker005:] There's, there's, there's one one bloke had a erm speaking, a dog which spoke to them which gave them the
[speaker003:] Oh yeah?
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] for the next day []
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] races oh I mean you know
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah [].
[speaker005:] they're, they're quite
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] erm
[speaker003:] Were the dog's tips any good or er did it turn out
[speaker005:] He said he could never remember them
[speaker003:] Oh right.
[speaker005:] he says he can never remember the names, it's the times that er
[speaker003:] Mm. Yeah er
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] he's not a millionaire yet.
[speaker003:] No so perhaps not, mm. Oh perhaps, perhaps he, perhaps he has the knowledge but has difficulty in er navigating his way to the betting shop to to do anything about it.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Anyway erm
[speaker005:] Right I've... results see this is
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] this is really what I'm
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] comparison of subjects within groups and between groups I thought that's
[speaker003:] Yeah, mm.
[speaker005:] like a typical analysis variance
[speaker003:] Well yeah it cer it certainly
[speaker005:] But [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] it certainly can be. Erm it depends on erm it depends on what you ask them though... er if you get erm excuse me
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] if you get er... I'm just trying not to ripple the fabric just yet
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] erm sorry that's going on the tape recorder isn't it? Never mind.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] erm [LAUGHTER] if you [] it depends on what you do I mean if you're generating quantitative material, you know, if you get some sort of scale ratings of things like sort of estimates of how, how frequently they dream
[speaker005:] That's exactly why I wanted that because they've done
[speaker003:] estimates of erm yeah so they've actually got a, a standard questionnaire in this paper that you can't find yet?
[speaker005:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker003:] Right good. Erm you know all feelings of how vivid they are on average or feelings about how... you know any,anyth anything you can write a question about that, that you can put on a scale of some sort
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] that you can try and get them to say well is that sort of moderately vivid or very vivid or very very vivid or [sigh] absolutely compelling just like real life or... erm I, I don't know what, what, what you'd be able to do erm it's obviously gotta be something that you can present orally
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] er but erm that kind of thing where you can sort of scale the responses in some way or say how many times a week or say how many times in the last year or how many times since Christmas or something erm fine yeah you can do, you can do stats on that, you can hopefully find P less than point O five etcetera etcetera between the different groups
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you can also erm... maybe try and correlate things like, oh I don't know, how frequently they came, claim to dream with how much they rate their enjoyment of dreams on average or, you know, all these kinds of things are possible
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm equally if you can't get any significant differences between the five different groups of five people you can try and split the stuff up, once you've got the data you can try and split it up in other ways, divide them into two groups and see
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] if [sigh] you know there are any other kinds of differences. Mm.
[speaker005:] with,wi is
[speaker003:] Yeah sorry yeah.
[speaker005:] obviously with the questionnaire I'm going, I wanna get, like you said, a lot of results where I can split them up, you know
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] it's really getting the questionnaire in a good format that's what
[speaker003:] Yeah, mm.
[speaker005:] I'm worried about cos basically it leads on I know
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] you know talking to five, you know, people who've done their projects, they've said some of the trouble going out
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] you know was that they'd got results which they couldn't sort of like apply
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] so I'm trying to do it
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] you know, look at the results and to effectively try and to sort of like estimate them.
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah. Mm yeah. The poor old printer seems to have broken, it won't, it won't
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] it won't make the paper lie down flat when er when it's finished.... Yeah that's just an updated list of, of project people because some people have changed their titles and, and some people have
[speaker005:] There's some interesting titles isn't there?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I'm really, I was really impressed
[speaker003:] Mm. So erm... yeah so I don't know in, in, in some ways what the questionnaire actually ends up looking like is, is, is up to you, I mean you've already spoken to some of these people and spoken to some of the organizations involved
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and, and stuff like that so I mean in a sense you're by now a fairly good judge of [sigh] the way to go about this sort of thing, you're a fairly good judge of what sort of things are important, perhaps the way in which people describe stuff and, and, you know, words, concepts, vocabularies erm all that kind of thing which obviously it helps if your questionnaire fits in with
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] erm... so... erm... I don't know it's just down to generating some questions.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] I mean you may want to er... for example, you know in some ways some of the responses may fit in quite nicely as a point on a scale or something like that, you may have some, you know, be able to... in fact I advise you to come up with a fair number of quantitative type questions
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker003:] where you, you get a scale response to them and we can do stats on but equally, if you get people to describe their most recent dream or describe their most erm, you know, compelling dream or, you know, a good one that they've had in the last year or something like that, you may want to try and get that on tape or something like that erm if possible, yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah I was wondering about using tape actually.
[speaker003:] I'm afraid I, I've only got one spare tape recorder and I've lent it to somebody already [LAUGHTER] erm []
[speaker005:] Yeah yeah
[speaker003:] so mm
[speaker005:] I've got one
[speaker003:] erm so er it's sometimes possible to borrow from the university but they usually, they usually make it very difficult for one so er oh thanks, erm... so erm... anyway because with a thing like people's accounts of dreams you may want to sort of go back and look at them, you know, sort of how people have expressed them in their own words, they may have er you know produced some nice interesting quotes or something like that
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you know to er
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] er you know express the dream in or express their feelings about it.
[speaker005:] Well it's very, it's really interesting actually I had
[speaker003:] Yeah mm.
[speaker005:] a brilliant afternoon, it was
[speaker003:] Yeah, good.
[speaker005:] it was really exciting.
[speaker003:] Yeah
[speaker005:] Erm
[speaker003:] so er...
[speaker005:] other things to right
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] I've got, in the introduction
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] er do you think it should be in the form of like a erm you know abstract introduction method er yeah
[speaker003:] Yeah I think that's usually the safest thing to go for with these things
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker003:] however you've done the inve investigation, it looks like you've already spotted some literature of various kinds
[speaker005:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] articles, books and stuff like that which talk about this thing [sigh] erm it helps obviously if you can link in what you're asking people to some of these previous ideas, theories, bits of evidence and stuff like that
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] so it looks like, when you write it up it looks like some, it's got some sort of continuous argument to it
[speaker005:] Mm. Yeah.
[speaker003:] which often looks quite nice so that even if what you've found doesn't quite match up with what they've found you can say well look you know these theories, ideas are... need enriching, they're a bit inadequate as they stand because what happens when somebody tells you this, what happens when somebody says this erm you know we can, we can revise them in the following way
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] which is question section erm you know you can tell that kind of s equally
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] you may find that certain pe... [tape change] Mm.
[speaker005:] got so much dreams
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] erm but you know when you
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] go through it's quite, you know
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] applicable a lot of
[speaker003:] Cos I mean those mental rotation tasks are, you know, fairly standard er cognitive tests that
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] are sometimes used as part of I Q tests and things like that sometimes
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker003:] so er that's old is it Shepherd and Metzler No it's not in this case but I think they invented the task, yes they did [LAUGHTER] good old Shepherd and Metzler
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] erm er so erm yeah er... you know sort of spatial ability type
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] things. Erm tt yeah but er... so anyway whatever strands you can draw out of these things
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you know in terms of, not necessarily the precise content, but you can get erm some general idea about how people have studied the mental life of blind persons and how, you know, maybe it's interesting that er presumably most of the people who've studied it are themselves sighted rather than blind themselves you know
[speaker005:] That's right, yeah.
[speaker003:] I mean it's like the, the able bodied studying the disabled, men studying women
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] whites studying blacks, you know, all those... other kinds of imbalances in, in psychology in the social sciences erm which might be interesting erm... cos like Guy sometimes says about erm... when he was er talking to some er deaf people, well perhaps not talking's the right word but communicating with some deaf people about their, about their problems, I mean this bloke said... you psychologists are all the same you just think that deaf people need cochlea implement
[speaker005:] Yeah said that.
[speaker003:] i implant and yeah that kind of thing and er whereas, you know, in this guy's view it would erm involve the erosion of, of the whole culture of sign language
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you know that, that you know he saw something valuable and wanted to preserve presumably so
[speaker005:] Yeah I think cos he said about that in the lecture about the
[speaker003:] Mm, yeah, mm
[speaker005:] sort of like friction it caused.
[speaker003:] Mm yeah. Yeah erm so er you know you may find some traces of a more, you know, kind of er I don't know, politicized understanding on the part of blind people as to, you know, what it means to you know kind of have their life investigated
[speaker005:] Well one of the well one of them was saying
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] like a lot of people ask
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] about the dreams of bli you know ask us and er
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker005:] said you know they ask us about colour and
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] you know, said you know it's so... narrowminded of them to ask us that, you know, if you're
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] completely blind you know the concept of colour they said
[speaker003:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker005:] they said colour was one of the hardest
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] things to like, like a colour green you'd have to
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] describe it as fresh, you know, and
[speaker003:] But that, we only have that, that's only by association for, for, for sighted people, yeah
[speaker005:] That's right, exactly exactly so
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] so []
[speaker005:] you know they said mm that's right.
[speaker003:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker005:] Now
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] another thing was in, in the introduction I wondered how much explanation of like general structured dreams
[speaker003:] Mm are, are there people coming in? Oh no it's, it's a, they've wandered off, oh never mind
[speaker005:] Mm [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] it's just some students that gra well mature student who graduated last year so... anyway carry on.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] []
[speaker003:] Mm yeah.
[speaker005:] Erm it was sort of really from this book it's nineteen ninety one erm which is
[speaker003:] Yeah. Right, good. Mm.
[speaker005:] you know all looking into how dreams of erm able sighted people and how
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] much do you want on that if you see what I mean to describe about dreams that
[speaker003:] Yeah erm
[speaker005:] to, for comparison?
[speaker003:] well it's one of these things where if you sort of have a
[speaker005:] Cos it's quite detailed.
[speaker003:] have a read of things and then on the basis of what your informants tell you then you can sort of focus it a bit more on erm tt you know the stuff that er... erm you know the stuff that comes out in the literature that's particularly well suited or well fitted with the, with the stuff that, you know, you've, you've got erm... I mean that's probably the best way to do it and I also find actually trying to write things sh myself shows up the holes in arguments, shows up the bits that you need yet to fill in sort of thing
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm so I mean what I did with my final year project was actually try to write something which was very sort of wide ranging and broad which sort of was like a first dr draft of an introduction and then once I got more data
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] sorted you know I could, I could try and zero it in a bit more on, on, on what the data was about erm
[speaker005:] What did you do it on?
[speaker003:] It was about er the press and unemployment and it was about... the way the effects of unemployment were written about in... well broadsheet and popular newspapers, it also involved a bit of a study where I gave people some articles to show which had been typed up in a fairly anonymous format and, and got them to rate them in various ways and that was in, let me see, nineteen eighty three... long long time ago [LAUGHTER] Oh yeah Christmases are flicking past like Sundays
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] it's terrible [LAUGHTER] er yeah it does, it goes faster. Erm yeah so I mean that's generally the way to go so I th I think you know it's probably worth working away towards a, a more specific set of questions that you might want to ask and, and think of ways of administering them so you get some sort of, you know, numerical information in the end. Equally... you know things that might prompt people to talk, to describe dreams, to tell stories and that
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm so er
[speaker005:] Erm the other thing
[speaker003:] that kind of thing.
[speaker005:] cos they were quite interested cos they hadn't had like anyone actually properly doing research or anything erm
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] she said you know could she have a copy and I said
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] you know I'll do a copy in braille
[speaker003:] Yeah fine.
[speaker005:] as well which they said
[speaker003:] Oh wow.
[speaker005:] would be absolutely brilliant and
[speaker003:] Excellent.
[speaker005:] she said she would erm... cos it's erm well it would work out about forty pound to have it done, thirty five
[speaker003:] What, have it done in braille?
[speaker005:] Mm. Er but she said she
[speaker003:] Oh that's not as bad as I thought because I'd always heard that it was like really really expensive to produce er material in braille.
[speaker005:] Apparently as long as I get it on a P C disk, five inch
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] well she said actually, she said she's gonna try and erm
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] tt put it through the books there as well so
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] you know she's gonna take off about
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] fifteen pound there and I've chat
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] I chatted to the bloke as well who did the
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] who was partially blind as well actually who did the erm
[speaker003:] Yeah. Mm.
[speaker005:] processing and he said you know that'd be fine to do so
[speaker003:] Yeah. Well I suppose... you know once you've got a machine that... effectively like a big dot r dot matrix I would've you could er you could do it with with something like a, a desk top printer er
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] and you know maybe it's getting easier these days, mm.
[speaker005:] Yeah. I was, I was surprised I thought it'd be a lot more cos I just you know
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] enquired just to see if I could do it but er
[speaker003:] Yeah. Because in in the early days when it was invented I mean people were actually embossing the dots on by hand individually erm... so er... anyway yeah so, yeah that, that would be excellent, yeah, mm.
[speaker005:] But I just thought, you know, it'd be nice to give it because they have been, I mean they've been really helpful and
[speaker003:] Excellent yeah
[speaker005:] so
[speaker003:] good, cos that's always the
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah [].
[speaker003:] thing with dealing with outside organizations, you know, that sometimes they're
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] either a bit off putting or a bit slow or a bit, you know, all sorts
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] of other things so er so that's er seems like so far so good almost
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] erm... you know, fingers crossed erm
[speaker005:] Yeah exactly, yeah.
[speaker003:] anyway at least you've made contact and it seems, seems like it's going okay
[speaker005:] Yeah exactly, there wasn't sort of
[speaker003:] and that's the main erm
[speaker005:] any friction at all between us so
[speaker003:] mhm, yeah, good erm...
[speaker005:] I think that's about the lot really. Think what I'll do is try and try and get hold of the other report and then
[speaker003:] Yeah. Mm.
[speaker005:] erm... if I can bring a sample questionnaire when I've done it to you I mean I'll see
[speaker003:] Yeah certainly, yes. Mm.
[speaker005:] you know when I get there so obviously
[speaker003:] Mm. Yeah.
[speaker005:] then I'll make an appointment and just
[speaker003:] Yeah great stuff. If you, so if you come in come in next week some time and
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker003:] also, it goes without saying, I mean the people at the other end would probably like to see a copy before you start just for, to see if they can suggest
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] anything, just for approval, you know, cos people, people, people, people, people like to think
[speaker005:] Yeah I mean that's what, that's what they would er
[speaker003:] they've been asked and, and stuff like that.
[speaker005:] yeah. I phoned up this week just to say I'm getting on with it and they sort of like she said she'd
[speaker003:] Mm. Mm. Yeah.
[speaker005:] try and get there's sorted out.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah. Good so er
[speaker005:] Righty-ho.
[speaker003:] Right oh well glad to see er things are happening and, you know
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] things are progressing.
[speaker005:] So much
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] it's ridiculous this term
[speaker003:] Yeah. [sigh] Yeah mm... right good
[speaker005:] We've got four hundred... four hundred words a day we calculated we've gotta do
[speaker003:] Oh right er [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] Dunno if that's a good way of looking at it.
[speaker003:] Yeah well I dunno I'm dreading the Easter holidays cos I've got like erm we're probably gonna have about two hundred pieces of coursework to mark over Easter then there's, and they're sort of you know projecty things and things like that erm and then there's... first week next term there's like all these second year social, which is well over a hundred of them plus about forty final year projects will come in, plus about... I'm hoping it'll only be twenty things from Loughborough but... it might be as many as, as fifty if the other person gives me all their marking er as they have, they've given some indication that they will
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] oh it's alright I'll give you a couple of hundred quid for it but, you know, it's all, it's all [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] so erm yeah just hope I don't get ill between now and... round about July I think it'll all be over
[speaker005:] That'd be the wouldn't it?
[speaker003:] so, yeah, yeah I mean if you have flu for a week or something, you know everything
[speaker005:] Yeah, exactly.
[speaker003:] everything er
[speaker005:] Once you get a week out of hand you know it just goes
[speaker003:] mm yeah, yeah when it's all sort of tightly packed together
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] when it's all like an interference fit and, and there's not much room.
[speaker005:] Oh I looked up about the last, the last essay I did cos it was about erm
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] smoking and trying to change erm strategies towards it, I don't know if you remember?
[speaker003:] Erm it was
[speaker005:] It was about
[speaker003:] I remember doing someone smoking I can't remember yours specifically erm unfortunately so
[speaker005:] Oh it was just erm cos it said about, cos I couldn't work it out cos he said about a reference which was
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] eighty one reference and the magazine wasn't out till
[speaker003:] Well hang ab you'd er you'd put er you'd put the date some time in ninety four
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] somewhere er which... or, or if, if it was the one
[speaker005:] It was eighty three it was
[speaker003:] if it oh right so it was er
[speaker005:] but I looked and it was actually
[speaker003:] oh if it, if it was if it w if it was that one I think, I think there was some dis if, if it's the thing I'm thinking of there was some discrepancy, I think it was alright in the... s on one occasion there was some stuff which I couldn't find at the end
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] but there was some stuff with like dates that hadn't happened yet in ninety four or something er
[speaker005:] It was it was two magazines but what it actually was which I
[speaker003:] Yeah. Mm.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] If, I think if that's the one I was thinking was mm
[speaker005:] it's actually an Am it was it was an American book which cos it was Just Seventeen
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] and Good Housekeeping magazine which didn't
[speaker003:] Oh! Oh, oh right erm oh we're talking about the... the actual titles of the things that didn't start till oh the sort of U K version
[speaker005:] Yeah that's right that was the problem
[speaker003:] didn't start till later.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] I didn't know that's it's Amer [] it was the American one, that's what I
[speaker003:] Oh it was the American version? Ah I beg oh I beg your pardon in that case erm
[speaker005:] No that, yeah, that's, I couldn't work it out because
[speaker003:] because I, I remem I remember when the if it was the Seventeen er I remember when that was launched in the, in the U K and it was
[speaker005:] Mm.
[speaker003:] some time after
[speaker005:] I didn't have any idea
[speaker003:] the original
[speaker005:] cos I saw that and thought
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] you know it applied to the British
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] cos I didn't just
[speaker003:] Erm
[speaker005:] but it was the American, they're American magazines
[speaker003:] mm. Oh right, yeah.
[speaker005:] so
[speaker003:] Oh I beg your pardon then.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] No no [].
[speaker003:] No it's [LAUGHTER] no it's alright [] it just, it just puzzled me because I couldn't see where it had, might have come from
[speaker005:] Well I thought
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Righty-ho then
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker005:] I'll get on
[speaker003:] Yeah good.
[speaker005:] Okay.
[speaker003:] So was, was it also you that had got some, some, some dates in the references that hadn't happened yet like the... erm... pe there was somebody it might have been you had actually referred to things that, you know, sort of twenty first of the fourth ninety four and things like that and it was sort of
[speaker005:] Don't think so.
[speaker003:] Oh it was probably not you, that was probably somebody else then but I remember seeing that, you know
[speaker005:] Yeah I don't remember, no I think that was
[speaker003:] no that was er that was another example of peculiar dates in, in, in references and er stuff like
[speaker005:] They can obviously see in the future
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Yes I was thinking that you know perhaps they could er
[speaker005:] quite, quite talented really, a waste of [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] you know sort of erm read the, the racing columns or the er [LAUGHTER] or the, or the, or the, or the []
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] I think that's []
[speaker003:] or the stock market reports or something like that.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] []
[speaker003:] Yeah mm.
[speaker005:] Right, cheers then.
[speaker003:] Okay right. I'll just see if that er that character who was looking in the window's still around. Mm. Oh right yeah so er ah
[speaker005:] Cheers
[speaker003:] okay, cheers.... [door knock] Oh hello, I just wanna say hello to Pete
[speaker001:] Right
[speaker003:] and, and, well and to you as well Viv but er I haven't seen Viv, I haven't seen Pete for a while.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I'll get some of this later
[speaker003:] Yeah. Mm. Mm.
[speaker001:] I, I... I went to as we came down, suddenly realized you'd got somebody there you were obviously deep in conference so er
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] but I, I'll give you a knock when I've finished if I can
[speaker003:] Yeah fine yes please do, I might, there might be somebody else in there with me by then er
[speaker001:] Well I, I won't disturb you.
[speaker003:] it's quite, quite, quite, quite rare I have a spare moment these days but er yeah please do er give us a knock when you've finished here. Right cheers. Bye. Oh what er
[speaker001:] but it's in the mail
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] arrive this afternoon, I've sent it back
[speaker003:] Oh excellent because I
[speaker001:] to the er
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] to the writer to the author of the chap
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] of the erm
[speaker003:] Yeah. Okay well it will be interesting to see what er what other people have, have said about it because I was sort of fishing around a bit in the dark and looking at the stats manual
[speaker001:] One review was absolutely crap
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] just about three lines
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker001:] the other review is really good, just as good as yours and he and you are saying very much the same things.
[speaker003:] Well I never. Oh, right. So the, the S P S S manual didn't let me down then. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I did take out one thing about the bible since it was going to somebody in the States in the bible belt and I didn't
[speaker003:] Ah you never know.
[speaker001:] I didn't like to take any risks
[speaker003:] You never know yes, okay well that's er
[speaker001:] I did wipe out your comment about the bible
[speaker003:] Oh well that's fine.
[speaker001:] but apart from that it went in
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] exactly as you'd put it.
[speaker003:] Right okay so they can, they can, I ca they can er curse me and send me death threats now if they so desire.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well they don't know, it's anonymous
[speaker003:] Oh right yeah.
[speaker001:] I took your signature off the bottom.
[speaker003:] Okay well, well I don't mind them knowing who I am, I er I mean it's a, you know, if they do want to, mm
[speaker001:] anonymous
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Anyway I must get on. See you later.
[speaker003:] So, okay right. Cheers.... [clears throat]... Right.... [sigh]... [whispering] I don't want to encourage []... [sighing] Erm []... [break in recording] mention this morning or is that gonna be embarrassing
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker003:] or sh... [break in recording] Right okay, button's plugged in, microphone on and off we go.... Okay. No problem.... [sigh]... [sighing] Oh dear []... [sighing] Ha [] parcels, I love parcels. I tell you what, would you like to open the parcels?
[speaker001:] Yeah
[speaker003:] Right that'll give you something to do. Erm... erm not exactly no. Right. Erm... phew! Ah! Well what can we do for you?
[speaker006:] Did you
[speaker003:] Yes I did. Yes erm let's just er find it again, no that's not it, I must have it here somewhere.... No it hasn't been there for a little while... British National Corpus... I've been carrying it around with me
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] and I wonder what I've done with it.... Therapies and, no erm...... erm... as I recollect er ah!... Here it is. I was gonna say as I recollect I didn't see much wrong with it that I would disagree with erm I think it's nice to see, you know, sort of progress seems to be going on and erm er... what I would say is sort of it might be a good idea to sort of line the numbers up a bit more but erm
[speaker006:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker003:] er
[speaker006:] I did actually
[speaker003:] aside fr
[speaker006:] I looked at it mys I changed a bit
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] myself, I could feel that the order
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] of the questions weren't
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] cos like
[speaker003:] So is this like er s er yet another version from this or is that like an older one er
[speaker006:] Oh well it's the same questions I've just changed the
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] order of the questions
[speaker003:] Yeah. Aha.
[speaker006:] cos I thought maybe asking about their own experience but okay
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] before like putting all these categories cos it
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker006:] might put ideas
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] in their head or something.
[speaker003:] Yeah erm that might be... true but then sometimes it can be an adventure to put ideas in people's heads so they actually write something
[speaker006:] Oh right.
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] erm [] because I have had the trouble of asking open ended questions and like nobody says anything so er
[speaker006:] Oh.
[speaker003:] erm however I always find with questionnaires it's very difficult to predict what's going to go wrong in advance so
[speaker006:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm you might as well do a bit of a erm you know kind of give it a go and see what happens
[speaker006:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm now erm... I think er... I think yeah that was okay. It might be, if there's a little bit of room, it might be worth sort of s moving the numbers slightly towards the... erm... items so that, because if you sort of
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] look across it's... you know can be a bit
[speaker006:] That was what I
[speaker003:] yeah
[speaker006:] thought about that. I thought about putting
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] but then I thought it might take up too much space.
[speaker003:] Well I wouldn't worry too much about cramming it all together tightly because it's erm one of the few things we've still got a budget for is photocopying student questionnaires so you m you know, you might as well take advantage of that, it doesn't erm it doesn't cost you anything and the actual difference it makes to the university and to erm world resources is very slight indeed I think
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER] Okay []
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] so er [] you know
[speaker006:] okay.
[speaker003:] er so you might want to, you know, kind of space it out slightly erm
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] er... right erm... tt yep... that seems to be... okay I didn't erm... no... I was reading this on, this morning just after the clinical lecture and I didn't see anything that, that I thought would be problematic erm... you know given, you know, sort of what I've seen in your coursework so far you seem to have got a fairly good idea of what you can ask and what you can get away with and what sorts of things you think are useful and, and, and stuff like that so erm... you know I'm entirely happy with your judgment as to the content erm you know because it's part of an ongoing pr project and it's not just something that you've, you've... knocked off in half an hour or anything so erm
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] you know I, I think, I think... usually what I say about questionnaires is towards the business of, you know, kind of writing them in people's own words that, that sort of fit in with ordinary language okay... putting them in a sensible order... advising people to do scale type things with five or seven points or something which you've got a lot of already so a lot of the comments that I normally make on people's questionnaires er you can take as read as it were erm so I think erm... you know just really one or two minor things about layout like, you know, you know sort of space and, and moving things around a wee bit, it might make them easier to read but again as I say that's a... you know relatively minor erm problem. So in the other version that you've got what sort of changes to the order have you made? Erm
[speaker006:] Well I put... I put all these questions about erm have you witnessed violence or not I put
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] I put them first and then I
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] put... erm... all this about what you think force is
[speaker003:] You put all the scaly things
[speaker006:] After
[speaker003:] there
[speaker006:] yeah
[speaker003:] erm... yeah erm... well I wonder... erm... again it's difficult to tell what's going to work best. In some ways as regards the, the layout and the appearance of the thing I tend to prefer this version because on this one erm if we have a look at that there's just like l oh my God loads of numbers oh no
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I can't be bothered to answer that, throw it away [LAUGHTER] erm []
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] you know erm not that they will but er you know it it's, it's one of these things that, that sort of looks like there's a bit of variety on it when you've got... mm
[speaker006:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you know alternating things you know
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] with some, some things to write a few words in, some things to tick, some things to make a mark on... one of the numbers and so forth so erm er... you know it's erm... but as I say it's difficult to er
[speaker006:] Well maybe if I got a couple of people to fill in
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] the different versions and see
[speaker003:] Yeah fine see, see which they er which they, do a bit of market research as it were, yes
[speaker006:] Mm.
[speaker003:] erm that can sometimes help certainly, yeah, but er as I say er I think there should be... it should yield a, a... fair amount of data for you and, and you know with a bit of, are you a stat view or S P S S person or any strong
[speaker006:] Oh
[speaker003:] preferences or?
[speaker006:] I think you have to use S P S S cos I didn't
[speaker003:] Right fair enough.
[speaker006:] well I did do stat view in the first year but not very much
[speaker003:] Yeah. No, no I
[speaker006:] how to use it.
[speaker003:] find stat view very difficult to use myself but er when the time comes, once you've got a few that are filled in we can erm... well I'll show you how to do an S P S S data file and, and erm so you can bash your data in and if you bring it back we can turn it into a system file and analyze it. Erm so er... that shouldn't be too bad. So I don't know do you, do you fancy now kind of giving the different versions to a few people by way of er er
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] another pilot and, and see if erm
[speaker006:] Well I'll just do it in my flat I suppose
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah fair enough if, if that's erm you know how you fancy starting. And then if you [clears throat]
[speaker006:] finish it off.
[speaker003:] any, any sort of, yeah, any sort of changes or anything erm... er... I don't know if you're around sort of early next week we can
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] get the
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] things reprographicated and
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and er it usually takes about three working days and er
[speaker006:] Okay.
[speaker003:] and away you go.
[speaker006:] How subjects are you?
[speaker003:] Erm... with a thing like this, I mean what I usually say to people it depends on erm if you've got a lot of numerical data, oh you might as well have this back for the time being so sweaty hands soaking into it or anything
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] erm er then it does help, if you're looking for P less than point O five, and aren't we all these days, erm
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] you know [] er it helps if erm it helps if the groups that you're comparing between there's about sort of at least twenty people in each sort of thing, erm... and the same goes for things like, things that you might want to do squares on or something like that erm so I mean if you were interested in comparing people who attended very regularly with people who only attended once in a while erm you know it would help if there were about sort of... more than forty people altogether so that there was sort of, you know
[speaker006:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you could median split them at... whatever the medium was and then you've got two groups to compare erm because it usually looks quite nice if you've got something comparative as well as looking at the average sort of, you know, pattern of responses on the questionnaire. Equally if you've got erm... I don't know what other kinds of differences you might want to erm... er... look for but again if you're looking for differences it helps if there's about sort of twenty people in each of the groups sort of thing. Or if you're comparing people with themselves as it were, that is looking for differences between how they answer one question and how they answer another question, then sort of, you know, kind of twenty or more people and you've got a reasonable chance of showing up some, some P less than point O fives. Erm... I don't know that's, this is not in any official stats books but it's just my experience with students' projects that if you get more than, there's a sort of critical mass of about, about forty respondents and then you're much more likely to start showing some interesting statistically significant findings for some reason, erm I don't quite know why but er [LAUGHTER]... it's one of life's little mysteries but er so that's... usually if there's a lot of numerical data what I'd try and advise people to er to get.
[speaker006:] Oh that's
[speaker003:] So you know I mean more than that by all means, you know, er so much the better, you know y the more the merrier but erm certainly you know kind of it's a good idea to at least try and get that many erm
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] so er
[speaker006:] I've got, I've got in touch with a football supporters society
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] and erm they've got eighty members so
[speaker003:] Oh right. Mhm.
[speaker006:] so they're like sending me a list, well they sent me back a [LAUGHTER] half list []
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] I said to them can I have a list they said oh yeah sure she went we'll put it in your
[speaker003:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker006:] pigeon hole, you know it's just like bit of, scrap of paper with like a few names on it
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] and they said oh we'll get the list to you, the full list to you as soon as possible I mean
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] that was about two weeks ago
[speaker003:] Yeah. Well I mean it's often things that people do in their spare time the, the record keeping isn't perfect and, and
[speaker006:] Yeah that's the thing they haven't got time, yeah.
[speaker003:] they don't have a, you know, kind of computer based mailing list that they can print out or something you know?
[speaker006:] No yeah I know that so
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] so I should
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] if I, if I get in touch with them then I'll
[speaker003:] Mm. Yeah I mean that might certainly give you some, you know, kind of you know regular attenders to er to, to
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] to look at erm so er... yeah
[speaker006:] Great.
[speaker003:] Are you into football very much yourself or er
[speaker006:] Yeah. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Oh right mm so it's, it, this, this emerges out of a personal interest thing?
[speaker006:] Yeah
[speaker003:] Oh right. Mm.
[speaker006:] Yeah I support Bristol City
[speaker003:] Oh right. Are you from that part of the world at all or?
[speaker006:] Er Forest of Dean.
[speaker003:] Oh right so er mm
[speaker006:] Yeah it's the nearest place really. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Yeah within the nearest place with... a biggish
[speaker006:] With a yeah.
[speaker003:] football team possibly yeah. Anyway
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER] Right....
[speaker003:] Right so er...
[speaker006:] I think that's everything.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] So if I get it laid out again then, you know
[speaker003:] Yeah fine erm but as I say it's just sort of you know kind of minor layout changes, that's all I was suggesting
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] so you know at a pinch you could probably run it like that and I don't suppose anybody would notice the difference but, you know, just in terms of you know making things look attractive
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker003:] erm... so... you know but you may find if you give, print off a few and give them to a few people over the weekend
[speaker006:] Mm.
[speaker003:] you may find that some additional changes occur to you
[speaker006:] Mm.
[speaker003:] which you might want to incorporate anyway so you may not want to print off another version anyway
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] so er
[speaker006:] Erm oh yeah the other thing was... it's two sided at the moment, is that
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] best or do you think
[speaker003:] Erm generally speaking the consensus is it helps if it's sort of on one side
[speaker006:] Oh right.
[speaker003:] but how you do your original is up to you I mean it's just what we ask for from reprographics and you know they do single sided
[speaker006:] Okay yeah.
[speaker003:] double sided, collated, stapled
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] different coloured paper and all, you know, all this sort of thing
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] so er erm... er... so that's... no, is there anything else we need to worry about... with regard to that?
[speaker006:] Er no I don't think so.
[speaker003:] So as I say I think it'll, I think it'll, it'll run okay and behave itself on the assumption you can get some people to fill it in so er
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] yeah right. Right, good. Okay.... Well do have er a pleasant weekend
[speaker006:] Okay.
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] I shall try to.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] And yourself
[speaker003:] Oh yes I could do with one.
[speaker006:] Are you working?
[speaker003:] Yeah well I'm, I'm gonna try and get the final year lecture for Tuesday sorted actually on Saturday and erm it's usually, it's usually Guy but I think I'm doing it this week, yeah, because I've got quite a few to do on things like racist in the media and Guy's mate Dennis has just written a book and he's given me a manuscript of it and it's about how racist psychology is which is
[speaker006:] Really?
[speaker003:] yeah and he's spotted racism in the Atkinson et al textbook and all sorts of, all over the place so erm mm there should be something interesting to talk about in that for a start.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] So er anyway
[speaker006:] Okay.
[speaker003:] more of this on Tuesday.
[speaker006:] See you
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker006:] Bye then.
[speaker003:] Mm.... Oh hello. So what have we got, have they sent me some new textbooks? Oh lovely.
[speaker007:] But one's for you and one's for Guy
[speaker003:] Oh I see, oh blimey. Ah.
[speaker007:] Have you finished in there now?
[speaker003:] Erm yes I've finished with the students oh right, oh I didn't realize, there were just two parcels on the erm
[speaker007:] Yeah look
[speaker003:] on the thing and, and I picked them both up
[speaker007:] you see.
[speaker003:] I thought they were both for me. Oh dear. [LAUGHTER]... Ah! Oh well erm...
[speaker007:] Yeah I didn't fancy
[speaker003:] let's see
[speaker007:] going up to the senile
[speaker003:] No I don't I don't blame you. Erm
[speaker007:] I sort of started to feel a bit ill before so [LAUGHTER] []
[speaker003:] Yeah. Well do er do come in er... well did you have a pleasant trip down?
[speaker007:] Erm yeah it was okay, it wasn't too bad.
[speaker003:] Mm.... Alright [sigh] cos I think we've been sent these on approval to see if we want to adopt them for course material
[speaker007:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] you see so erm
[speaker007:] They seem quite nice.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Erm well I, I don't know quite what erm they'll be teaching you out of in your er abnormal course but erm er I do find the, the... the sort of current generation of American textbooks quite erm
[speaker007:] Mm.
[speaker003:] quite a nice, quite exciting erm I tell you what, swivel that swivel chair round and, and sit on that
[speaker007:] Okay. Do you have a drink please or
[speaker003:] Yes of course. Now erm what sort of flavours appeal? Now we've got ordinary tea, we've got herbal tea, we've got coffee out of a coffee machine, we've got Lapsang Souchong, we've got ordinary tea... I've mentioned that already haven't I?
[speaker007:] Erm
[speaker003:] We've got soap powder and shampoo
[speaker007:] Oh I'll have some sort of tea, that'll do.
[speaker003:] Yeah.... Well we've got, what about some, some Lapsang? It's sort of Lapsang teabags, that's quite
[speaker007:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] quite refreshing, I've had a lot of coffee already today. I'll just go and fill the kettle.
[speaker007:] Okay. Are you going to eat this cheese roll?
[speaker003:] Well would you like some?
[speaker007:] I'll have a bit.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Erm it's not too
[speaker007:] What's in the middle?
[speaker003:] elderly it's cheese and pickle
[speaker007:] Oh good, I can't
[speaker003:] Oh well [LAUGHTER] yeah, got you there. Erm... yeah... [break in recording] if er you have no objection, what it's for is the, there's this outfit called the British National Corpus and they're trying to make a record of English Language as it's used in the late twentieth century erm... so it's a sort of resource for further scholarship so it can assist in writing dictionaries and studying grammar and, and all sorts of things like that and erm they're attempting to tape conversations from all over the place erm... er I've got a bit of bumph about it, it's quite interesting erm... and in some cases it's sort of out of erm... er... it's out of people's homes, it's out of broadcasts, it's out of meetings, it's out of all sorts of things erm at work and at home erm
[speaker007:] Have you just turned it on now?
[speaker003:] Yeah it's, it's just on at the moment er they didn't hear any the other stuff
[speaker007:] Oh.
[speaker003:] erm so
[speaker007:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] oh yes it's Oxf er Oxford University Press, Chambers Dictionaries, British Library, Lancaster University... Oxford University erm... so er... it's erm... quite interesting so
[speaker007:] Do you mind if I have a cigarette?
[speaker003:] No go ahead
[speaker007:] Are you sure?
[speaker003:] go ahead I don't, no I don't mind people smoking in here, it's fine by me.... So er oh dear, oh I'm a bit frazzled.
[speaker007:] Frazzled?
[speaker003:] Yeah I mean it er... I was up till about two A M so er...
[speaker007:] What, marking?
[speaker003:] Well I've just about finished marking for the moment, er what it is erm... I went out last night, ill advised