[John:] The er... gentleman said, Yes approved yesterday, Mr
[Ian:] Good yes they nor they normally let you know there and then the the
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] the outcome I mean... it's very rare that we do get a refusal.
[John:] Yes. It was... rather comical actually because he said er, You must now go and make an appointment to see Mr, and I said, Well actually we already ha
[Ian:] We already have.
[John:] He said, [LAUGHTER] I'll catch him out on this one [].
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER]. [] Yes sometimes when we get people that are anxious to start immediately you know we make the
[John:] Of course.
[Ian:] interview there... there and then even before
[John:] Mhm.
[Ian:] we've actually got the the letter back saying, Yes we can sign
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] you... onto the scheme. Right, okay... like schemes there is quite a bit of paper work to do
[John:] Okay.
[Ian:] So this is actually... this first form here is an application for the scheme
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] so if you want to start sort of scribing
[John:] Okay.
[Ian:] away, and if there are any particular... queries on... that you want to ask, please do. In the meantime I shall... complete one or two of the others.
[John:] Okay. In which case I will suspend this until the talking starts. [break in recording] One query only.
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] Erm... will my business have any links with another business? Erm
[Ian:] In the context of the Enterprise Allowance Scheme... no no no no.
[John:] Probably not. Yeah.
[Ian:] .
[John:] Because I I wondered wha to what extent those... those links were in that I shall have... obviously informal links an and talks with other people who are doing similar things... than what
[Ian:] Yeah, yeah.
[John:] I'm doing, but they're not formal business links.
[Ian:] No no. So that'd no that that's quite alright.
[John:] Please check and make sure I've done things
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] .
[Ian:] I don't know who reads all these forms [LAUGHTER] anyway [] but erm...
[John:] [LAUGHTER] Well th they're there in case they're needed I think you see
[Ian:] Yes that's it. And the government auditors actually sort of er... come round.
[John:] I I misread previous... the word previous
[Ian:] Word previous.
[John:] in that.... These are... these are estimates?
[Ian:] Yes yeah it's basically a question there... to ensure that people don't just put down that they're whatever they're doing just purely
[John:] Wal walking the streets for twenty four hours [LAUGHTER] a week [].
[Ian:] Yes. I it's to cover the other things like doing the book keeping,
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] doing the marketing and your advertising and general
[John:] Yeah, yeah.
[Ian:] networking. It's not just purely.... yeah. Yes.
[John:] Well I haven't included the advertising of things in that. Maybe I should?
[Ian:] ... [reading] Erm sole trader, yes.... previous employer, yes. [] Right.
[John:] There will be
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] in that Nottinghamshire County Council was my previous employer. I've actually heard from them today
[Ian:] Good.
[John:] from the... Personnel department asking for details of what I was offering because the... medical reports had now gone to the medical officer. They could see no reason why he would turn them down and they're setting the paperwork in motion to put
[Ian:] Good, right, right.
[John:] me on the appropriate lists. So er... that's coming.
[Ian:] Do we have any indications... approximate percentage or...
[John:] I've said to them that I'm prepared to work for them. Obviously I'm limited by the terms of my... erm pension... situation. I've said I'd be prepared to work for between two and three days a week...
[Ian:] Right yeah.
[John:] for them.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] I mean that... need not necessarily be kept. I could undertake a whole week's worth and then
[Ian:] Yeah, yeah.
[John:] do nothing for a fortnight of course. It depends on demand.
[Ian:] there's school holidays and.
[John:] Of course.
[Ian:] Yeah no... no that's okay.
[John:] right.
[Ian:] I mean they're all... basically for different schools anyway, but it just so
[John:] Of course yes.
[Ian:] happens they come under one... education authority.
[John:] It's a it's a rather a debatable thing as to who is actually your employer.
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] That's right.
[John:] Yes I sha I shall have to go and talk to the tax people I know about... er... the the set up.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] Fine. Er this next form is basically one that we have to... send to the Benefit Office
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] the D S S,
[John:] Of course.
[Ian:] the Inland Revenue and [phone rings] the TEC office.
[John:] Right. I'll suspend this. [stops tape]
[Ian:] You would need to... be in touch with the the Benefit office informing them
[John:] Right yeah.
[Ian:] that you are going... onto the Enterprise Allowance scheme as from Monday.
[John:] I I I've got all the necessary papers to do that.
[Ian:] You have.
[John:] It's just a question of I was waiting till we'd had
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] this meeting so that it was then
[Ian:] Yeah, fine
[John:] official
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] obviously.
[Ian:] Well this goes... by tortuous route and eventually will get to [LAUGHTER] Newark [].
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] Erm basically we've just got here your your name...
[John:] Okay. Can I... correct the spelling, it's one.
[Ian:] . You know when I wro
[John:] It's two in surnames and one in christian names I always think.
[Ian:] I must admit on every form I've put the two and I thought afterward I'd better
[John:] [LAUGHTER].... It's a minor thing but er... you know.
[Ian:] On some of them I've just put John P I think.
[John:] That's right yes well that's how I'm intending to trade.
[Ian:] . Yes, yeah. Your national insurance number.
[John:] That is correct.
[Ian:] The type of er... business you are setting up... as a music teacher.
[John:] Right... music teacher and supplier of musical services in fact, yes.
[Ian:] Erm... trading name?
[John:] Is just John P in fact.
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] And the card that I'm going to do will be... have John P you know... erm teacher, accompanist
[Ian:] right, yes.
[John:] performer transposer or whatever it's... I don't want to limit myself to just... saying, I'm a teacher other things as well.
[Ian:] No, fair enough, yes yes yes that's that's very... very. The address business address is happens to be your home is
[John:] Is correct, yes.
[Ian:] your home address,... and the Enterprise Allowance... money will be paid from Monday the twenty fourth of January nineteen ninety
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] thre four right through to Saturday the twenty first of January nineteen ninety five.
[John:] Got it, yeah.
[Ian:] The first payment due to you which will be credited to your business bank account will be on... week commencing the seventh of the February.
[John:] which will be a fortnight after...
[Ian:] Yeah that's right.
[John:] the... the actual start, yes.
[Ian:] I'll change that. [sound of tearing paper] The... they were going to actually pay... fifty pounds... a week for a
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] shorter period then on a reducing scale but the computer can't do it and... so
[John:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] unfortunately they'd already printed the forms
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] and so but it it's back.
[John:] Oh I understood the eighty pounds a week anyway.
[Ian:] Yep.
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] Providing that the forms get down to... the computer in London on time
[John:] Mhm.
[Ian:] then... erm... the first payment in some occasions is a cheque direct to you from the TEC.
[John:] I see.
[Ian:] Then when the cheques stop, then check with your bank further two weeks go straight to the bank.
[John:] Okay.
[Ian:] If there are any queries on... that you haven't erm received the money or anything just get back to us and er we'll
[John:] Okay.
[Ian:] we'll we'll chase it up.
[John:] I know where you are.
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER] Yes. [] So that form we will send off to the various... erm... departments.
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] Right.... This form here it's just a fairly short one,i could you just... tick the appropriate boxes for me. It's a bit of a market survey... research.
[John:] [reading] How did I hear about it? [] Erm... well I didn't actually... hear about it, I'd already known that sch that such schemes existed.
[Ian:] Right yeah.
[John:] And it merely occurred to me, actually I was sitting in the unemployment benefit office and I said to them er er at one of my interviews,
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] Probably I'd be better off going self-employed wouldn't I? and they said, Well in that case you'll need to talk to the Chamber of Commerce
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] so I suppose basically
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] the job centre.
[Ian:] Mhm.
[John:] Is that okay?
[Ian:] Yeah that'll do fine.
[John:] Erm... I think I'd have my business... later, probably about... six months.
[Ian:] Months, six months. I'm glad you said that cos if too many people said they would have gone on... started business without it they might drop the scheme.
[John:] They might drop the scheme, yes yeah. Mm... ah... I suppose so. I object to these things actually on principal.
[Ian:] I I
[John:] I've refused to do them for Notts County Council... on occasions. I could I could [reading] prefer not to say [], couldn't I?
[Ian:] Yeah you could have done.
[John:] Erm... [reading] long term health... problems or disability. [] yes
[Ian:] Well
[John:] and no. retired on health grounds but I
[Ian:] Well I mean we we are, yes yes we are aware of the.
[John:] Right so I will say no I don I don't have a long term one, and no I'm not registered.
[Ian:] for that one.
[John:] Thank you.
[Ian:] Right now this next form is the one that we need the bank details.
[John:] Which I just happen to have with me... somewhere in here.... I seem to have every form the Inland Revenue has ever published at the moment.... Ah to the back of the.... In the bank manager's own handwriting. [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] Ah mm. I have to sign my life away to get these yellow forms.
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] Secretary of State cos I mean in in the wrong hands their worth... each form's worth two thousand and
[John:] Of course, yes.
[Ian:] eight pounds
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] so this one we have to be very careful with it. Right the... sort code
[John:] The sort code is
[Ian:] And the account number?
[John:] Is...
[Ian:] [repeats account number] repeats account number. And the account name is?
[John:] Is John P
[Ian:] John P.
[John:] business account.
[Ian:] Right.... Which account... er bank is it?
[John:] There you are. Nat West.
[Ian:] Right.... Okay that's fine.... Erm industry code. I looked up that early... earlier. Fifty three. We have a big directory that we've got to put all these...
[John:] Oh I see.
[Ian:] depending what type of business you're in.... [whistling]... Right when erm... did you finish actually work with....
[John:] On the thirty first of August
[Ian:] Thirty first of August.
[John:] last year.
[Ian:] Right. Approximately how many weeks is that?
[John:] Erm... hang on. September, October, November, December... erm we're talking about... sixteen, eighteen... we're talking about twenty... twenty plus weeks twenty twenty one weeks.
[Ian:] Twenty one weeks, right.... And in that time you were in receipt of benefit were you?
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] Yes was it er... do you know the the weekly amount approximately?.
[John:] Erm forty four... something. Well whatever it is the standard.
[Ian:] yeah right. Forty four.
[John:] ... It [sound of paper being torn] to eighty nine pounds twenty twenty something pence... in total. So it's for just over
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] forty four.
[Ian:] That's... two... two and six. One... two... two. Right if you'll just erm... check the details.
[John:] .
[Ian:] If you want to just check the bank account cos we don't want the... we don't want the money going to the wrong
[John:] Okay yes that's important.... close your zero there in case it looks like a six [LAUGHTER]. O one ninety four. Yes obviously that's the date isn't it O one ninety four? [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] Yes, yes. I never never appreciated that before.
[John:] No. Oh I I knew that
[Ian:] .
[John:] one actually because our other erm... accounts are rather similar..
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] business yeah. I don't know... oh yes
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] seventy two ninety four.
[Ian:] Yes that's the date of the first pay first payment
[John:] Yes of course. [reading number] []
[Ian:] Your national insurance number.
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] Date of birth.
[John:] Erm
[Ian:] You're male. The industry code...
[John:] .
[Ian:] that I've looked up.
[John:] [reading] Previous unemployed twenty one weeks. Previous benefit level forty four. []
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] That's correct. [reading] Signature of applicant. [] [signs document]. And the twentieth
[Ian:] ieth
[John:] one... ninety four.
[Ian:] .... Right that's that out of the way. One... there is a contract... agreement here between you and the... North Buckinghamshire TEC.
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] Erm there's nothing very sort of horrendous about it. If you... just have a... take a few moments to...
[John:] .
[Ian:] have a read through it. The... handout that they refer to here. Have you read... erm handout number one? It's... one of these which I think did I give you... initially?
[John:] I have got a copy of... here
[Ian:] That's it.
[John:] Yes. I've actually been through it as you will appreciate. A total of my own expense and ticked the appropriate bits complied with them.
[Ian:] Fine, fine, yes so that actually refers to that
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] particular... account there.
[John:] Right. In which case I will pause this again. [break in recording] the only erm problem I had I think with the basic er terms as outlined in this document are the fact that I'm going to be wor erm intending to work for fif at least fifty of the fifty two weeks in the year at it when of course erm certainly as we'd already agreed on my erm... business plan... within the summer month from the... the end of July until the beginning of September
[Ian:] Yes, yes.
[John:] it's highly unlikely [LAUGHTER] I'm gonna get any business at all.
[Ian:] Right, yes.
[John:] In any case because of the nature of
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] what is being offered
[Ian:] .
[John:] and the market... that it's being offered to.
[Ian:] Yeah, yeah. Er tha that's alright yes. I mean the bas if you're sort of wanting to take any holiday or time
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] off I mean just keep... yes.
[John:] That's the time to do it, yes.
[Ian:] Keep us informed and er
[John:] Keep us informed, yes
[Ian:] ... tha tha that's okay.
[John:] Do you want to know about occasional days or you you're presumably concerned with... with full periods. I mean it sometimes is that for instance we... we have a daughter in York and I have parents in London
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] and sometimes we'll take a long weekend...
[Ian:] It's really full periods
[John:] Go Friday to Monday or something
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] like that.
[Ian:] It's really if you're sort of gonna be away for a couple of weeks.
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] Anything longer than that erm... it just depends really on the time of the... erm... your... the time of the year or how many months you've
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] actually been on the scheme. For example, we need... to see you... at
[John:] Is it three six
[Ian:] Er three months and at six months... and then again at sort of the twelve months time
[John:] And then at fif
[Ian:] We're always still here and available.
[John:] and eighteen I think isn't it as well?
[Ian:] Yes that's right.
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] So it's... if it's coming up
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] to sort of three months and you have to be away and we don't hear from you we think, Oh you naughty boy, yes.
[John:] You might get worried, yes.
[Ian:] We'll take him off the scheme because he hasn't replied to... any of our correspondence.
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] So er
[John:] No I'll certainly keep you informed.
[Ian:] No that's alright, yeah, fine. Right this is the... the last... form.
[John:] This is my copy of the form.
[Ian:] Erm...... [reading] have you been s [] yes you've been signing on...
[John:] I've been signing on postally in fact.
[Ian:] Yeah, yeah.... And it's been less than... it's between six weeks and... five months has it?
[John:] It is it must be yes. Erm ooh no hang on... it's just over five months.
[Ian:] . Right so that's six to twelve months.
[John:] That's six to twelve months wasn't it yes.
[Ian:] I must get my glasses changed.
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[John:] They must print their
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] forms on slightly bigger pieces of paper I think.
[Ian:] Right. Er [reading] do you have any long... term health [], no.
[John:] No.
[Ian:] Right here you have the opportunities to prefer not to say as to your colour.
[John:] Oh go on I've said it once so I'll do it again.
[Ian:] Right. It's just basically
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] ... basic details, name... and address, telephone number,
[John:] Okay, yeah.
[Ian:] national insurance number, date of birth. Erm another code number form a directory...
[John:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] start date of going onto the scheme,
[John:] That's today.
[Ian:] the end date... yeah And... forty pounds a week and that's erm... the code number for the for the TEC.
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] So sign and date that one.
[John:] [signs paper]... ninety four. That's it.
[Ian:] That's it, right. [clears throat] you're now participant number O one six four two.
[John:] That's great.
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] one of those numbers to [LAUGHTER].
[John:] I'll write it down on here. O one
[Ian:] O six... O one six six four two.
[John:] six four two.
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] Not that I shall probably need it at all.
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] Well thank you very much.
[Ian:] So that that's everything. Now as I say... erm the next formal... sort of contact
[John:] Mhm.
[Ian:] that we will have will you... with you will be in about three months time when
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] we'll... er we'll want to see you. We normally on the first three months do it on a group basis
[John:] Okay.
[Ian:] but if you happen to have erm... an urgent appointment or you're
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] seeing a client... [clears throat] on that particular morning
[John:] Yep.
[Ian:] then... we we can do it on a one to
[John:] How much notice do you tend to give of these?
[Ian:] It's about... a couple of weeks.
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] Yeah. Erm but if if it happens
[John:] yeah.
[Ian:] you're saying, Well every Wednesday morning or whenever
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] it is... that I have an appointment
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] with a... with a er client then... we appreciate the business... comes first.
[John:] Mm... it it may it may not be in that nature because the nature of of supply teaching work of course is that
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] there tends to be a phone call we're desperate.
[Ian:] Can you make it?
[John:] Can you make it in half an hour's time, you know.
[Ian:] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a
[John:] should that occur
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] ... I mean...
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] I I think business
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] must come first before
[Ian:] Exactly. Yeah we apprec we appreciate that
[John:] Erm
[Ian:] erm. Now... at that int er we we'll send you a er a couple of forms but als... to to complete, but there's also... the main thing that we're really looking f at is... erm....
[John:] How you're keeping
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] up with that business plan.
[Ian:] That's right. Filli filling in the actuals...
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] of your erm [clears throat] your cash flow. [clears throat]
[John:] Well the the the actual book is already started and is sitting
[Ian:] Good, good.
[John:] ... up and running as it were and er... I shall be I I know already that some of these figures are inaccurate [LAUGHTER]...
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] having had rather a nasty shock when I had the car serviced the other day.
[Ian:] Right, right.
[John:] It needed new clutch and new exhaust
[Ian:] Yes unfortunately right
[John:] which didn't help matters.
[Ian:] . The travelling and motoring expenses for... two hundred and seventy five
[John:] Ooh... the they will be double that.
[Ian:] Double that, yes.
[John:] I've just paid three hundred and eighty five over to a certain garage
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] and that was before we bought the petrol this morning [LAUGHTER].
[Ian:] Erm... the form that comes out... is different to this but you you can use...
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] put it in pencil in this one if you want and we... so we
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] can on the day make... a a photocopy that's all. It's more of a management exercise... to
[John:] Of course.
[Ian:] make sure that people are
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] controlling their businesses
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] and their costs as opposed to actually... erm
[John:] I've actually got a a complete copy of all that
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] anyway having been
[Ian:] you didn did you want the original back
[John:] Erm.
[Ian:] or erm
[John:] Yes alright unless
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] you wanna keep it.
[Ian:] we have got a copy as well so
[John:] Oh I see.
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] Well ha ha had I known I would have told you [LAUGHTER] not to take a copy you see [].
[Ian:] That's alright.
[John:] I I I've I've been these these routes before
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] and I never give out... documents that are going to be important without copying them first.
[Ian:] No no exactly. I mean sometimes people go to great lengths and trouble
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] in getting a a nice... document together and they... they would they would like to have it back... and so
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] we take usually just take a photocopy of everything.
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] Have you... got the form... for the... I think the Inland Revenue? The tax man and it's a
[John:] Erm... what I
[Ian:] little green booklet called I R twenty eight. Ah it's changed colour hasn't it?
[John:] What I have I R?
[Ian:] Twenty eight.
[John:] Twenty eight.
[Ian:] I think it'll be one of those...
[John:] Here we are. I R twenty eight.
[Ian:] Yes it's cha changed colour.
[John:] the form is actually sitting in the... centre
[Ian:] That's it.
[John:] which is one of the two that I've got because the other one I've got to deal with is the... self-employed... national insurance contributions
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] form as well, of course.
[Ian:] Can I... just take the numbers off those forms?
[John:] You can indeed yes.
[Ian:] We have no problem getting... well that's... we have no problems getting
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] them from the Inland Revenue. They send us lists
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] of what's in everyone's.
[John:] This this came as part of a package
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] I I rang Hill House in Mansfield
[Ian:] Right. useful
[John:] how about it. I have another matter to talk with them actually about my wife's liability to... class to... contributions. There's a... a long outstanding erm discussion going on between us and Newcastle. It's been going on for about seventeen months now... and the... in chief man at Hill House was rather interested to hear that we'd not actually had it resolved yet, and asked for the reference numbers and.... Newcastle were on the phone to us within twenty [LAUGHTER] minutes of him putting his phone down []. Things now seem to be moving.
[Ian:] Good. to get these from. You can go dow go down to local benefit office
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] we can get a small... you know quantity but to actually get
[John:] Well thi this is a complete pack that comes and there's obviously... erm from... the... information that was included with it erm... here we are. Erm they they obviously run a check on what was actually in the pack
[Ian:] Pack, right.
[John:] and whether you asked for anything else.
[Ian:] Yeah, yes. And does it give an address or?
[John:] I think it was nearly your... your area....
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] office of course
[Ian:] I haven't seen this new pack you know we
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] I've had some of the old individual leaflets.
[John:] They even give you an envelope for it. It's very... charitable
[Ian:] It is really.
[John:] .
[Ian:] That's a useful er... you know a useful
[John:] It is.
[Ian:] .
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] get some....
[John:] It might be an idea to have a supply.
[Ian:] Mm.... Yes shall... pay another call to our benefit office and say, I want some of those... nice mauve coloured
[John:] I suspect I suspect the local office probably won't because it was they... when I rang them here in Newark and I said, Look I'm about to go self-employed,
[Ian:] Mm, mm.
[John:] Oh we don't keep things like that it's... where do you live? Southwell. It's Hill House, Mansfield. You've gotta apply there.
[Ian:] Lincoln.
[John:] So from Newark it's probably Lincoln
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] isn't it?
[Ian:] Yes, yes
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] normally that erm...
[John:] Southwell Southwell faces Mansfield which rather gets us in the stick you see because we have to come here for... Benefit Office interviews and things like that but you got to Mansfield for other things.
[Ian:] That's right, yeah.
[John:] But most of the people who come here for interviews goes to Lincoln...
[Ian:] Yeah, yeah.
[John:] and er... with my son particularly earlier on in his career things were going round and round in circles and in the end I had to step in at one point, grab all the papers as they came past as they were and saying, come on. [LAUGHTER] Cos one office was playing the other office off against each other.
[Ian:] Yes, yeah yeah.
[John:] It was quite amazing.
[Ian:] Fine. So that's
[John:] I'm looking forward to this.
[Ian:] virtually everything. Good.... as I say we'll be in touch with you in... in that three months time
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] but if in any reason you know you wanted to come and have a discussion or there was a problem or er there's anything
[John:] things are looking clearer now than they did... you know a few weeks ago.
[Ian:] Yeah. Fine, great.
[John:] And so I think
[Ian:] I'm looking forward to.
[John:] possibilities are... are definitely there.
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] I can start advertising myself now
[Ian:] Right, right certainly.
[John:] and I'm hoping that the local authority will start coming across with... a bit of work for me.
[Ian:] Good. How long did the interview last at the TEC. Was it a fair... was it an in and out... quickly or?
[John:] Erm... fifteen minutes.
[Ian:] Fifteen minutes, right yes.
[John:] Yes. Most of which... time we talked about organs. I can play you the... er [LAUGHTER] recording of the interview []
[Ian:] Right.
[John:] [LAUGHTER] if you like. It's on the front of this tape []. But, no I'd better not had I.
[Ian:] No, no. Confidentiality.
[John:] Yes.... That's er
[Ian:] Yes alright.
[John:] Yes a very nice gentleman.
[Ian:] Yes it was John?
[John:] John yes.
[Ian:] Right, yes, yes. They they do occasionally change... them around...
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] Erm... and some people that we... we send out sort of tend to be there for either half an hour and others sort of.
[John:] It possibly depends on the nature of what you're... intending
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] to set up. I mean my application essentially I should think was one of the simplest...
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] that could possibly be. There's no stuck... movements and
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] things like that involved.
[Ian:] No I mean we do send the business plan up prior to the [clears throat] to the
[John:] Of course, yes.
[Ian:] but even so I think some
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] of the ones..., yes, yes
[John:] They look at it when the client comes in
[Ian:] rather than. I mean we did have
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] one which... must have been probably about so thick
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] and I can't foresee the chap... reading that in a...
[John:] No.
[Ian:] and absorbing it and er... they just... want to make sure
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] that the person there is... er
[John:] Actually did write the plan
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] and knows what they're about, yes.
[Ian:] But even but even in that case we did have... er did have a case with a young... a youngish lad who his accountant had written it
[John:] Oh.
[Ian:] was very sketchy
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] financial projection side was fine you know
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] full of... cash flow charts and budgets for three years, projected profit and loss and all. But the written part was only very sketchy
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] on on erm... one... side of A four... and it was obviously wasn't written by a young... man
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] and erm... the they di did pass him but
[John:] Oh.
[Ian:] they did obviously have to ask him a lot more questions
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] so hence the interview
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] lasted quite... a period of time because they wanted to make sure that... he knew what he was doing and everything
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] was... you know factual within the... in the written part.
[John:] I I must say I've also been... er you know very... very impressed and er learnt quite a lot just attending these... courses that you've you've got running here.
[Ian:] Yes, yes.
[John:] It helps to put things that you already knew back in focus
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] and remind you of some of the other things that you didn't.
[Ian:] Mm, mm. Yes so i i... at one time to get onto the... to apply for the Enterprise
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] Allowance Scheme one had to... attend a mandatory seven day Start Your Own Business course.
[John:] Right. Yes I realized this. This was when they first started wasn't it?
[Ian:] That's right which was... run two days a week for over... for three and a half weeks.
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] Then produce a business plan and the interv go for the interview which... looking sort of month six weeks
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] before you could actually get onto the scheme. But here in Newark because we don't have sufficient numbers coming through
[John:] No.
[Ian:] we tend to do it all on a one to one basis
[John:] Right.
[Ian:] and have a back up of the... you know the the individual days sort of
[John:] then in a position
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] to use your judgement as to whether you say to somebody, Yeah you must finish this before I'm gonna consider you or...
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] Yeah okay we'll put your name forward but it would be nice if you attended.
[Ian:] Mm. But before it was a mandatory seven day course regardless of that person's expertise or... you know... qualifications.
[John:] might have been their own company life before they...
[Ian:] Yes, exactly.
[John:] went unemployed and then decided to take advantage.
[Ian:] Yeah I mean we do get people who come in on the sort of the Friday morning and they've already got their... done their business perhaps sought out... professional advice elsewhere
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] they just really need a d discussion with somebody local, get some a bit of extra information
[John:] And sign on.
[Ian:] but to make that person go through a... a seven day course and wait a month is... nonsense so... it is a much more flexible now. Because we don't have the sufficient numbers and can't keep people waiting for... courses we tend to have these... do it on a one to one basis... which... you get, I don't know.... I think from... generally from courses are quite good because you do learn something and you're
[John:] Oh yes.
[Ian:] meeting other people in similar circumstances and no matter how much you tend to know, you'll... learn and feed off each other
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] Whereas one to one it's just... you and that particular... you know business.
[John:] I've been most appreciative of the... erm clarity and incisiveness of 's... set out.
[Ian:] She's very.
[John:] She she's a born teacher.
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] [LAUGHTER] Should should I think the... the the tax... erm... priv private private tax... advice gain is the is the education with her.
[Ian:] Mm, mm.
[John:] She she's absolutely excellent.
[Ian:] Yes, yes. We always get er... you know very good erm... sort of report back er [clears throat] from the courses that she... she runs, yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] I think it's a difficult... subject er in... one where somebody's starting up own business who hasn't... erm had any experience before
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] that you know... book keeping, finance and taxation i it's
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] a... a minefield in a wilderness
[John:] It's a bit of a headache isn't it, yes.
[Ian:] and something that... one can be quite erm... fearful of.
[John:] I'm rather lucky in a way. I've a father in law who was... er for a long time in charge of the erm... er financial side of the P A Y E side of the er National Dental Estimates Board in Eastbourne in Sussex
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] and he knows these things. He could... he's still good enough to stand in erm Sainsburys alongside the till and add up the prices as they go through.
[Ian:] yeah. Yes.
[John:] And reach the same total at the end
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] or argue when his total doesn't match hers
[Ian:] yes.
[John:] and he's always right.
[Ian:] Mm, mm. Does he do that as a matter of practice when he goes shopping?
[John:] Oh yes, yes. He just stands there and does it.
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] Click click click click click. I can tell you what it's gonna be.
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] And it is.
[Ian:] Amazing, yeah, yeah.
[John:] He worries me.
[Ian:] Yes, yes. lesser mortals need these things like
[John:] Yeah.
[Ian:] calculators to er.... Makes you very lazy I think.
[John:] Oh I think so. It's rather interesting at the erm... book keeping course last Wednesday I... I did it all without using a calculator... because the examples essentially were quite simple.
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] Basic arithmetic....
[Ian:] Yeah.
[John:] Er everybody else used calculators and I was first finished every time.
[Ian:] Mm, mm.
[John:] Now... that can't be because I was... that much better at maths because I'm not I mean...
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] musicians can only count up to four. Beyond that they it's combinations [LAUGHTER] of twos and threes [].
[Ian:] Yes, yeah, yeah.
[John:] I'm no I'm no speed... merchant as far as maths is concerned
[Ian:] Mm, mm.
[John:] at all.
[Ian:] Mm.
[John:] I think you can get bogged down in in the button pushing and making mistakes.
[Ian:] Yes, yes yes yes. I must admit I. Maths wasn't one of my strong subjects at school and er... I I rely very heavily on it to...
[John:] Mm.
[Ian:] but even sometimes when the calculator is not immediately available and you start adding up the finger er the figures
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] ... i it's... getting slower
[John:] Yes.
[Ian:] unless you're doing it.
[John:] I st I have to use my fingers these days to carry forward the the...
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] the er the tens and all this
[Ian:] Yes.
[John:] kind of thing. Well I'd better get out of your hair.
[Ian:] Fine. Okay well my next appointment's
[John:] Thank you very much for this.
[Ian:] actually cancelled. That was the telephone call
[John:] Ah.
[Ian:] . Get down and do some paperwork.
[John:] .... Thanks very much indeed.
[Ian:] Pleasure. [recording ends]