[speaker001:] Well, I wanted, basically to determine cereals, with the main ones. Sorry. The main, the two main ones there. Yeah. Different cereals, presume yours are old and er, [cough] It seems to be er, What, how, bearing in mind we're after ten er, ten horses and fifteen how many, erm, how many would you let us have, Well... the maximum
[speaker003:] Certainly,
[speaker001:] Yeah. Erm, I mean, horses, probably have two horses.
[speaker003:] I think we're gonna
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] This is good news, we can actually let you have all the cows.
[speaker001:] We've actually got quite a good er cow stock ourselves. Are you sure he give fifty notes.
[speaker002:] Yeah, he did.
[speaker001:] Yeah, effectively. Positive. Look at this. within one or two.
[speaker002:] Did he.
[speaker001:] Depends who er, need to discuss that. Yeah, I'll send him round nearer the time, I think. Well, erm, well obviously we've got some, as you know, we've got the timber all the material. Yeah. We could certainly erm, we could certainly address some of your needs in that respect, but erm, not all. Erm, so effectively, it's a, we'll be negotiating without a balancing of horses and on our part. Mhm. Erm, timber and materials, timber and materials on your part. And you don't want my cows. Er, we'll certainly be er after some of your cows, yes. But er,
[speaker003:] We could throw in quite a lot of er, extra manure.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean our crops actually work better with horse manure, erm, then they do with er cow manure.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] The thing is we gotta got a slight problem in the transport [cough] back Isle of Mann a certain number of years. Yeah, it's the same with our blokes, erm, so I mean, we're perfectly willing to help. Yeah. If you would with us on the point of transport. Yeah. That's not a problem. So rea realistically, really, erm, bearing in mind we can't satisfy your need, your full need for ten cereals and fifteen timbers. Yeah. I mean, what are we sort of, what arrangement are we working within. Well,
[speaker002:] Fingers crossed.
[speaker001:] Yeah, what, no, tell us, what's the maximum amount of timber you could theoretically give us... on a good day. Well, on a good day, erm, we could give you ten. Yeah. But that's it, on a good day we could give you ten only, and we couldn't give you any more. Basically we've only got ten. Right. And we can't give you any over five horses. Are you sure? Positive. So you're saying, you've got five horses and ten Yeah.
[speaker002:] On account.
[speaker001:] And we can give you on account. Which was?
[speaker002:] I'm buying.
[speaker001:] Ah, right. Mm. Presumably you can give us, either fifteen or twenty.
[speaker002:] Ten.
[speaker001:] Yeah. We can certainly give you ten.
[speaker002:] He wants to make an offer on our cereals. Maybe we shouldn't have had them, and left our horses to five.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, we, we, we couldn't, certainly couldn't give you any more than five. Right. So basically, we can give you ten for ten timber and...
[speaker002:] Five cereal.
[speaker001:] And five cereal for five horses, basically.
[speaker002:] much as that.
[speaker001:] What about er, fruit and veg. five pounds... Is there any chance of getting five veg and five fruit? Mm. What was the maximum number of cows you could let us have? We could let you have five. Five. Isn't there a figure higher than that?
[speaker002:] What we could do.
[speaker001:] Yeah. No. We could give you five. Give you ten sheep. We could also give you some coal.
[speaker002:] Yeah, suppose to be reporting to industries in coal power, power station, No. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] wool and fibres makes you
[speaker002:] yes.
[speaker001:] Eight comes to mind. No, no no. Eight horses, maximum of ten horses, maximum of five cows.
[speaker002:] Ten horses.
[speaker001:] Ten horses. Sorry, sorry, sorry Ten ten horses, ten horses that you need. We can give you a maximum of five horses. Five horses and five cows.
[speaker003:] How many cows of sheep. Oh, you said sheep.
[speaker001:] Can't spare the sheep.
[speaker002:] We don't want sheep.
[speaker001:] I still think we're falling short of what we need. Mm. Erm, you interested in our veg and fruit. Yeah. Erm, if we were willing to throw that into the pot, Mhm. Erm, would you reconsider the offers you made on the horses in the offer. How much, if we definitely decided Oh it's an attractive amount.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] We can. Oh, do you now. The sheep are very attractive. We can't, we can't give you, we can't give you more than five horses on I think I think sheeps out of the bargain anyway, because we're both, sounds that we both got an over supply of the sheep. Mm. I can't give you a pound. It's all I've got.
[speaker002:] Oh. But we wouldn't agree that erm, the lives the livestock is negotiable now. negotiating livestock [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] cereals of five. The maximum we can lay is five, yeah. And apparently cereal. So you want to, in respect of us offering you sort of fruit and veg into the bargaining, is er,
[speaker002:] Make you change the horses.
[speaker001:] we can't change the horses. Can't not that we won't. We can't do, we can't
[speaker002:] What, do you only have five horses?
[speaker001:] Well... no, right. But we need something to power of appeals.
[speaker002:] Yeah, but we don't need, er
[speaker001:] to society.
[speaker002:] Would be easing, so to speak in sort of units of horses or electricity.
[speaker001:] Okay, if plough the fields, if we were to supply you with erm, fruit and veg, erm, obviously that would, some of for you to plough the fields, in which case you would have more to to offer us. Mm. I mean, she coped nicely because, providing we maintain a breeding stock of horses, cows and sheep, we can perhaps help you out a little bit more on that if you could erm, help us some more on the timber. Mm. Because as well. Okay, if you're interested in it. So what what how, what could you increase the horse quantity to. I think probably be seven... horses. Would you reckon eight. I really anticipated breeding two horses, to keep a breeding stock. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] to breed.
[speaker001:] I think think, we'd want, you know for that, we'd want to push the two, you know your offer of ten, erm, Okay, we we wouldn't settle for seven horses, then. For We've... [cough] Okay, we'd be willing to up the the, be willing to up the ten to twelve. Mm. I working on the training timber directly for horses, and then talk about cereal So... We'll exchange your seven horses for twelve of our timbers, and we'll throw in a quantity of barrels, I think. Barrels? Barrels.
[speaker002:] Barrels. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] What empty barrels, In which to store your oil, because of the heated [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] having transported [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] Excellent idea. Er, forget out it. [LAUGHTER] I mean, I mean I'm in charge To be honest, empty barrels just take up space on the Mm. Yeah. We could possibly, could probably, er we could, say, we could probably give you fifteen All your own, Mhm. If you forget the horses for a minute. Mhm. We could give you fifteen if you want your timber to maximum. I think your your priorities obviously well, okay, it's it's pulse Horses are my life, and they're the two priorities So we, say we give you horses, Mhm. Could you give us say, fifteen in timber and and we both reduce the... We still need, we still need some fruit and veg, but er, I don't see that being a problem, you know. We'd strike a bargain at erm, at twelve to timber and seventeen... we're after. What about the er fruit and veg? Erm. Couple of units each of those? Yeah, we can throw in a couple of units each of those. So, let's just summarise. So you'll give us twelve timber, two materials, two veg and two fruit. Mhm. We will give you seven horses, fifteen oil
[speaker002:] Five cans.
[speaker001:] Five cans. Well let's take it or leave it. Any chance of you giving us another five units of something.
[speaker002:] And a jack-pot.
[speaker001:] Well, I'm giving you a total of er twenty-seven units. You're giving us a total of... twenty-three.
[speaker002:] And we're giving you boats to transport it.
[speaker001:] We'll we'll be we'll be, we'll be willing to give you. Well, you haven't said that, yet, have you?
[speaker003:] I think transport being the problem. You could say we should agree with our sums. That's fine. But erm, we do seem to be coming out a little bit light.
[speaker001:] Okay, how many units we go after? Well, we've... I would like... we're basically giving you all your cow requirement and all your oil requirement. Yeah. We're getting not all our timber requirement and, not all our cereal requirement, no. We're getting... So what what, if we can erm, three more timber. We can't. I don't think we can erm, talk about timber and cereal or be willing to up the Compensate with a little bit of extra veg and fruit. Would you give us all all our requirement for veg and fruit. What would you need? Or would that be impossible. Three, three of each. Three. Three of each. Yeah.
[speaker002:] No, another three of each
[speaker001:] Yeah. So you want five of each, like. And then we'll give you and seven horses.
[speaker002:] It's not really interesting
[speaker001:] Okay. Right. Okay. So let's... you're getting fifteen oil, Yeah. seven horses, five cows. Mhm. We're getting five veg, five fruit, twelve timber and what's it seven So you've got a surplus of... we're giving, units.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Erm.
[speaker002:] manure if they're
[speaker001:] Manure?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] throw in a, after a bucket load of manure. What's a bucket load? [LAUGHTER] It's about as much as you can carry. Erm. Want some sheep, they're not expensive.
[speaker002:] No, we don't want sheep. Don't want sheep, do we?
[speaker001:] No. we'll have the manure. Yeah. [LAUGHTER] I don't want any sheep. up to their necks. [LAUGHTER] Okay, we'll take our own couple of units, couple of units.
[speaker002:] Couple of units.
[speaker001:] And we'll be alright. Right, er, we need er, we need... thirteen units of pole stakes, because we've only got sixt, you've given us twenty nine units. We want sixteen units of pole stakes. Right. So you either either sell back to our sixteen units of poles and let us stay the night, or come back again tomorrow. Oh. It's an imposition. Oh, right, sorry, right. We can help you shut yourself over if you don't want to Yeah, that's basically. I believe two journeys, so we've got to come to you vice-versa, so I think Well if you've got if you've got sixteen units of space, if you come over with effectively, sixteen units of your, you know, agree to supply us with. Yeah. Erm, then you can take sixteen of our... units in your boat and we'll take the surplus, which is... I imagine two of our boats, erm, if we come over with all three, effectively, which is twenty-one, if you can, of ours. Making us a space to come back again. Yeah. Mm. I dont see why that's Yeah Which won't mean that sixteen units. So if we send two boats over,
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] We then asked them to already booked. So do you have all you want, know. Erm, no, but we're ready to settle on what we've got. Same here. Mm. Where where abouts are you short? Well, obviously we would have liked a erm a lot more oil, oil, we got the oil, ain't we, the horses
[speaker002:] Yeah, the horses.
[speaker001:] But erm. So you got seven horses. Mm. Got enough to get us by. Yeah, we've got it all no problem. Yeah. Pleas pleasure doing business with you. [clears throat] The pleasure was ours, entirely.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] I'm afraid the tide has now turned, and er, this negotiation will have to come to an end. There are some friends who are a get who get drowned, whichever ones that travel, so. Thank you for your negotiation. In terms of sort of feedback, with er, in the er, provisional way, of...
[speaker002:] Sort of
[speaker001:] Yeah. [clears throat]
[speaker003:] Okay, let's start with the objectives. What sort of things were you
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] Hoping to get out of that negotiation? Perhaps we'll start with and then we'll ask. What was some of the things you were after... from that negotiation.
[speaker001:] We knew what our were, were something like what they're they're requirements were.
[speaker003:] Okay. So you had minimums, maximums
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] For each item.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker003:] There, and you want to ascertain their requirements.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Any other objectives
[speaker001:] Some negotiating with achieving some compromise at the end of the day.
[speaker003:] Okay, so to negotiate and achieve some sort of compromise what are your objectives?
[speaker001:] Er, what, we didn't get a discussion, what we decided was erm, because it was in negotiation
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] So I would be best to lay lay down the law straight away, what we needed, and what we didn't need.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] Erm, we knew exac we knew what we wanted, what we got.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] We thought that's the only thing possible, and flexible as possible.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker002:] Because at once, that we we intend to satisfy okay.
[speaker001:] So we could have sold, like have the cereals and the timber.
[speaker003:] So that, there was some key objectives within that, some more important issues, that concerned the others. Okay. Can I ask generally, how did you feel at the end of that negotiations. Did you both feel you got what you wanted, got more than you wanted, less than you wanted.
[speaker001:] We didn't get what we wanted, obviously.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker002:] Got top line maybe.
[speaker001:] Got more than the bottom line.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] So some satisfaction of the outcome.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah. So you were somewhere between the top and the bottom line again on this...
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] This negotiation.
[speaker002:] There's something, there's something
[speaker001:] Sorry.
[speaker002:] Perhaps we had, or we had no idea what they had to offer.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right, okay. So you felt you were probably nearer the top line, than than the bottom line.
[speaker001:] Perhaps not trying, probably probably knew. Because if you did, there's no
[speaker002:] top line.
[speaker001:] shot myself first. We did, we did, sort of, with only the horses, erm, so we lost out that way. Obviously they couldn't give us
[speaker003:] I mean, some of these who could be passed round to see, to get the size, but some of these, in fact the grand total does not equal by the teams needs, in courses that's why they are unsuccessful. In fact, fifteen horses, was it fifteen horses
[speaker001:] Er, yeah. Yeah.
[speaker002:] sacrifice the horses.
[speaker001:] Sorry ten horses.
[speaker003:] Ten horses available. Fifteen needed. So some of those are items you can't satisfy what you need, anyway, so it's gonna obviously have to be, somebody's got to go and satisfy some of those. But look at the negotiation you did, what were you doing well, what were some of the things that you needed most strength.
[speaker001:] We were gonna have, if both sides knew that it was mutual benefit, we would handle, say, furniture.
[speaker003:] Right. What do you think to establish that? How do you establish that?
[speaker001:] Erm, Well, the initial boundaries,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know the openings, Well, I I suggested to so.
[speaker003:] Right. I think you're right, we were saying a little bit earlier, that. At the outset, some things are bit like a first round of a sparing match. Didn't come across like that, I think,
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] There may well be because of that. Right. Well, let's let's have class three on the table, and the on is, erm,
[speaker002:] Yes, but we decided that we would ask them what, they could offer us first, or what they wanted, that is.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker002:] Before we actually...
[speaker003:] Put your cards on the table.
[speaker002:] For our part we wanted to know what they wanted, first.
[speaker003:] So that was a deliberate strategy, in fact, they did it early anyway. Yeah, that's right. Okay. So it was never been an honest sort of work relationship, from the outset. So that's working well. What else? That's working well.
[speaker001:] [writing on board] [clears throat] Okay, I think you both recognise that we're gonna have to make, but we realise it then, in the case of horses there are only ten possible,
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker001:] And fifteen were needed.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] So we would have have to make sacrifices in some respects.
[speaker003:] Right, so you recognised early on, that you would have to make a move for some of the stances that you wanted. So there's er, there's er an important movement, actually. [writing on board] Yes. Any other things, see you doing well.
[speaker001:] We actually saw alternatives... to what we were after. We could sacrifice, ought to get rid of some of the horses, and the cows and, we were quite willing to throw in the sheep, because that would reduced only to cereals,
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] In the hope of perhaps pushing up the timber and the fruit and veg.
[speaker003:] Right. I mean, there were certainly elements of creativity, I think, there's was at the beginning, I heard about coal fire stations.
[speaker002:] That was me.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] I mean, there are plenty of options with this station, including, in fact, you could actually float the timber across, you don't actually carry it on the boat, you tie it to the back and float it across. Same with your barrels, if you want to transport barrels. Maybe get your horses to swim across. All those sort of things, that are maybe options, creative options, the ways round it, linking issues together. Maybe you find a new Any others? Strengths. Things that are working well. Right, the actually, yeah
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] the effectual record within negotiations. Can I just check out, how do you think roles within the teams.
[speaker002:] We both erm, needed a spokesperson.
[speaker003:] Right. Chief spokesperson here, another chief spokesperson there.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker003:] Any other roles you'd delegate?
[speaker001:] In fact, that was only done as I walked through the door. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] There was something I saw, and I don't know whether it was deliberate or not. Erm, but take this team, there was somebody feeding information into the slowest person,
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker003:] They were actually say, no we can't do that, or yes we can do that. Erm, that may or may not have been deliberate, but it's very important, particularly within a group, erm of people in negotiation, who were clear about roles, and when I was out on the road, I used to occasionally take the out, and I'd go and see my broker and erm, I'd say, oh we love to do fish and chip shops, we love insuring fish and chip shops. And the sort of had a blue fit, and sort of say, no we don't, and very quickly you've got to mixed message. If you're not clear about the roles, and who gonna say what, you can end up actually totally competing each other. Anything else that we Erm, no. So, save a lot of things going to areas that you might do different then. Limitations. Areas
[speaker001:] I don't know if it's a limitation, but it's certainly a weakness that I didn't trust, trust them, that's what they were saying, they surprised.
[speaker003:] So you actually found yourself not trusting what was going on.
[speaker001:] Even now, I don't know, I don't, you just said that there's stuff finance survive.
[speaker002:] It doesn't matter.
[speaker001:] No, until you said that, I still didn't, didn't trust them.
[speaker002:] Poor Tim.
[speaker001:] I'm sure you trust [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] I'll cover you. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Were you aware that you weren't trusted.
[speaker001:] Yes. Yes. in what way?
[speaker002:] A bit pushy with the horses, you know, are you sure you can't, you know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] It's this sort of thing, I, well I'm sure you said that.
[speaker002:] And get quite didn't you say, eight horses or something, fifteen.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Okay, so you felt, didn't trust them, they were were aware that you weren't trusting them. How do you think that helps under negotiation.
[speaker001:] Can't do anything.
[speaker003:] Right. What would you do differently in the future?
[speaker001:] Try and get more trust in the outset.
[speaker002:] I bet you you reach a certain stage where, you realise I don't trust you, which
[speaker001:] I suppose we could have asked him outright, how many have they got, and how many we need.
[speaker003:] Yeah, I mean, it could have been done with real honesty, but
[speaker001:] Mm. But then we still wouldn't have known.
[speaker003:] Well, that's right.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] the specific answer or not []
[speaker002:] But is it driving a business. They got what they wanted, they got.
[speaker003:] decide that.
[speaker001:] I mean, you could have asked the same about us, on a lot of things.
[speaker003:] And it maybe about a relationship that will build up with these people over a period of time and I know it's expensive as negotiation. You think about salesmen who've got ongoing relationship with their client. It maybe faithful for a long time, perhaps you build up that trust, and it's only once you've got beyond that, that you can then begin to actually influence er, negotiate with them.
[speaker001:] I think would have probably, had more, if we'd had more time and reversed all and been clearer on our roles.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] So that when they said, are you sure you've only got x number of horses. We would have said, well, of course we have, because of, you know, we would had reasons and facts Mm. Perhaps to back that up. Albeit lies, but... convincing.
[speaker003:] Right. So you reckon if you had more time to think about an overall, sort of, web, if you like, of
[speaker001:] Deceit.
[speaker003:] deceits [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Well, now you've put the words in my mouth, convincing lies, that is a ringer, I mean, nothing but the truth.
[speaker001:] I'm sure it matters
[speaker003:] Yeah, I think you're right, but I think you had certainly time there enabled those to be dealt with more effectively. Any other areas, didn't do so well.
[speaker002:] We really needed a bit more of an introduction. Erm, another day, when you tried to set some, and we were all dying, and we kept carry on going, but we could have said somebody would on to each other, or whatever
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Sort of, priorities.
[speaker003:] This perhaps ties into to that one a bit as well. It's about the rapport, it's about the introduction, it's about how we actually settle the thing from the outset. Yeah. Anything else.
[speaker001:] A little bit more when somebody said to me.
[speaker002:] Yes,
[speaker001:] You said welcome to, wherever it was you know, we thought you came to us. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Yes, but that's deliberately set up, that is.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] To get you to work at that. We see when we're introducing negotiation. If you're giving things away, give things away of low value to you, but of high value to them. Were there any things that were given away, that might be of high value to the opposition, given away for less than nothing.
[speaker001:] Fruit and veg.
[speaker003:] Fruit and veg, might be one example. There's another one as well, and it was actually from this side, given away, but wasn't received by this side.
[speaker001:] Barrels.
[speaker003:] Yeah, the barrels, I mean, of of no value, I think to, a layman because...
[speaker001:] Craftsmen are experts in making barrels from the wood of trees, you have the use of barrels, except for storing the oil, you now have a large quantity of barrels available.
[speaker002:] I think we oil, so we didn't want them.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] We're seeping
[speaker002:] Oh, right.
[speaker003:] I think, this group but we don't want to attack it. Don't want them, it actually lowers
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] The value to this team. Erm, I can't remember what happened at the end, if you were tempted to the barrel as well.
[speaker001:] No, we didn't.
[speaker003:] In fact, you probably needed some barrels, and I'm sure or were given away. It's gett, it's thinking about, you know, barrels, yeah, well everyone is giving them away. Perhaps your was thinking.
[speaker001:] See, we'd given away all our oil, so we didn't need any barrels, and they were aware that the oil was a storage problem.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But there wasn't normally storage problems, normally had spare, seep out of the ground in, so we'll be alright.
[speaker003:] Okay. In terms of the sort of, negotiation, were there any stages, when people were not telling you about
[speaker001:] It got a bit confusing, writing it all down. Yeah. And trying to and see who was winning it and who was losing, you know, what the score was.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] Three more units You know, we don't eat confuse would it.
[speaker003:] Come on, see what you a bit.
[speaker002:] I don't think
[speaker001:] Certainly confused about, is how many horses
[speaker002:] Yes, that was
[speaker001:] our side. We we started off ten, aw, ten, [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Right, so I think, on some occasions there was some confusion, although towards the end, it was certainly quite
[speaker001:] Yeah, we do summarise where, what the mistake was.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker001:] And see if there was any further room. [flipping pages over]
[speaker003:] Certainly I think there were summaries in that note
[speaker002:] Yeah, it was difficult for to be negotiating and to keep up with where we were.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Because it's going along so fast.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker003:] I mean, there were a couple of occasions, when he got a cheap negotiator, other people joined in as well, and then, I don't know, you got three or four different...
[speaker001:] All got views as well.
[speaker003:] I know it's something that's particularly welcome here, but it's quite important to think about seeking positions, rather than negotiation, otherwise it's set up in here. This negotiation.
[speaker002:] Space.
[speaker001:] It's very them them and us.
[speaker003:] Might be worth just thinking about that for me, actually, have a a future negotiation. When I negotiate this person, they always go and sit across the desk. Maybe they don't like that. Maybe that comes in with a hat that says, Authoritarian, disciplined type of interview. And if I did come and sit face to face across the desk, it would have a discipline.
[speaker001:] I think if you were gonna s use any other situation to this, with the quantity of information that you'd have to, to record, as we're going through,
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Would have to be er probably a lot lower, this would probably be a maximum, because, I felt I needed a bit of time, to just sort of, you know, pass information. Yeah. And obviously if you playing cards close to your chest, you need something like this to sort of be able, you know,
[speaker003:] Yeah, I mean, that's going, that it's actually quite powerful situations, normally er you got roles worked out, and exactly who's doing what. At times, I just take a breather, actually stop and say, yeah hang on a minute, let's just walk through and work out what's going on. Okay, any other sort of areas you'd like to think about for the future.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker003:] Not somebody else. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] this morning.
[speaker003:] this morning.
[speaker001:] I think preparation is is quite important.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Erm, we tend to get it it's just an exercise, but it proved a point that even in twenty minutes we were, we'd only got through only got through to doing ideals,
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] or fall-back and realistic, we didn't get any further than that. Just making it up as we went along. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] You're right, erm, certainly an exercise twenty minutes, is about time, special timescale, but again a bit more time, might actually.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well I I was doing
[speaker003:] Yeah, you gotta be the same.
[speaker001:] He used to spend hours
[speaker003:] Yeah, you end up caving in, because you think, oh, I've got a timescale, I've got to do something and actually cave in. I think, because maybe you haven't been flexible at the outset, and all you've ended up doing is scoring points off each other,
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker003:] for the first nineteen and a half minutes. Quite like that
[speaker001:] Then again if you're... I think the only thing on that I would say is that, creativity in as a positive, erm, that that your there are loads of possibilities about how you could actually try and create situations, which would actually break down barrier, one of the barriers you had was, I'll give you one if you give me one. Yeah. You've actually got into number counting. Erm, there are other aspects about that that you could afford break that down, I know there was sheep, cows, for instance. I know the outlook. Well, we thought that. Er, you know, what could you do with it. Erm, maybe since the rams are a problem on the island, maybe you could get the horses over here, to work part of the year, and then foal, er, then you'll an agreement to have some of the foals back. I don't know, you know, erm, think about options, think about. One of the problems is when they're starting to optimistically with tunnel vision. Take those [cough] blue out there, sideways. Erm, but still getting, but we maybe getting a broader front on either focus too narrow a beam, sometimes it's too difficult to get that narrow boat to be on exactly the right spot. So keep creative can work. Yeah, it's issues, quite often as well. I remember when I was out on the road, I had a particular connection with, we had a motor bike policy, and it was an appalling risk, and it came up for renewal, and er, nobody had take it round the market, and I mean, that that was an idol threat, because nobody in their right mind would want this particular motor and we said, well not if they want to jack up the premium on it, they wanted to jack it up by about thirty or forty per cent, and and the broker was not very happy about this. But I said, alright, well we'll consider it, so long as you let us quote for the rest of the business. Erm, and if we actually get the rest of the business, we keep the motor pre premium down, at ten per cent increase, if we don't we're jacking it up by forty per cent. So, in fact, it's tying the two things together, and getting both bits of business. The motor is completely rubbish, won't be rubbish, but the profit bit is actually quite good. So it's actually sometimes thinking about, can I tie in something else to this, which may bring the whole picture, bring it all together, but be creative. Thinking things out.
[speaker003:] But perhaps one other thing, I mean, it's all useful. I don't know how many times I have to say, that we've we've been there and we know all about this. But, didn't work out. Erm, my story of this, was I I failed to recognise the role status. I at roles, and at one stage I almost did. Er, the secretary gets out of her chair, and she while I have a look, and you can hear annual negotiation, and er, and the golden rule for negotiating was er looking at your list up there, and he was a boss, he was also working as a colleague, he was even a friend. He of friends, and I thought well, when we're going into this, you know, he's obviously coming in as a colleague, because actually he was a member of the same damn union. And it was a ridiculous situation, so I went along and said er, look Jack er, we're going to go into the annual palaver, I mean, you know, very high inflation. I said, you're gonna come in at two per cent, and I'm gonna come in at twenty-two, and we both know that actually we're gonna up finish between eight and a half and nine, don't we? Which we did. I said, so so shall we actually save each other time, and we'll both come in with reasonable, reasonable, till we open our pay, you know, erm, stand-points, and he said, yeah, all right. So we, we went away, putting our package together, and we went in we sat in the either end of the table. He said, you've got er, your package for this year, as requested. I said, yes, here it is. And he said good, and here's ours, and we passed them along the table, and we wrote down two point six, I said excuse me, could I just have that back, there's a slight typing error, excuse me, sorry twenty-two per cent. And of course, we settled at eight point six two or something ridiculous. I mean, we were exactly where we said we were gonna be, but suddenly I didn't realise that he was boss. He had to show other people, that he had gone because that was what boss's did.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker003:] And he had to do that every year in order to satisfy his stance his hat that he was wearing, that he was actually being the boss, and knocking the workers down, look I'm holding down, what twenty-two point on six, er and he believed that my need was that I could go back to my manager, and say, look I got him up to two point one,. Erm, we both had something to gain, but equally we had something to lose and maybe that's the sort of things, we think about to change the cost. The cost of doing that it was too high for him. safest, reputation, so he couldn't do it, he couldn't change so, I've been there. It won't always work, if you think you've
[speaker001:] Shall we begin to pass out the oppositions...
[speaker003:] team.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] Who are you, you are, what's your name, touch of the old garden, touch of the old garden, do you. [flicking through papers] Good... Okay. In terms, of sort of where we are in the course, we spent yesterday having a look at, and yes this morning, having a look at planning for England. And we spent
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] having a look at some skills,
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] In terms of listening terms. Getting down to specific information and in terms of negotiation. The fun part of the course tomorrow morning, it actually involves you in doing a role play, with one of your colleagues. Your colleague plays your person your trying to influence, you obviously play yourself, trying to influence them. Now we're looking for tomorrow for about a twenty minute or so role play. And if you're still going after twenty minutes or so, we'll stop you. Which doesn't really matter, because just we're just looking at a snap-shot of
[speaker001:] [clears throat]
[speaker003:] actually going on.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] So tonight you're actually to do a little bit of discussion, and tonight, tomorrow morning, discussion with your colleague, to brief them in terms of what they need to do to fulfil that role. How they actually need to play it. Erm, but we aren't going to the sort of, end of degree, that er, I say this, and then you sort of enter stage left and say this, and I respond like this, and then erm, something else happens, and then somebody comes crashing in through the door. It's er, obviously, you'll need to give them a briefing, so they can play the character, but to the end of degree, 'cos you'll need to respond to things that they say, as indeed, you'll have to back in influencing situation, back in your own department, back in your own ground.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] So think about, in terms of preparation, for the influencing situation, but what are some of the things you might want to do. Not that I want you to agree with your colleague, but check perhaps, particularly for a bearing yourself. What are some of the things you want to think about for tomorrow. Er, exercise?
[speaker002:] Structure.
[speaker003:] Right. Need to think about a structure. Okay. What in particular on that?
[speaker001:] How you'll introduce certain people.
[speaker003:] Right, in terms of the of the dealing with the intro. Anything else?
[speaker001:] Terms of the structure. Whether you're gonna do all the talking, or whether you're gonna write down ideas.
[speaker003:] Right Okay, so whose ideas, whose contribution. [writing on board] So we've got an introduction. Anything else. Terms of the structure.
[speaker001:] What you're negotiating points are, all about the
[speaker003:] See the negotiator stance. Position, if you like. Yeah. Anything else?
[speaker001:] structure.
[speaker003:] about introductions. Might need to think about what are some of the things, that I would want to have as a conclusion. Lead to that, certainly. But whereabouts do you hope to be at the end of twenty minutes, however long we've got. What other things might you want to be thinking about, in terms of preparation for this one.
[speaker001:] erm, outcomes. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Right, yeah, outcomes, perhaps you're looking for.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Which is again related back back to that. I mean, a whole variety of other things from erm, put ten extra staff to erm, it could be, that actually I just open the doors, so that ne next time I could actually go back in. That's that's measurable. Some are very clearly measurable, but nevertheless measurable. Any other things that might be in terms of preparation.
[speaker001:] Anticipate what they might say.
[speaker003:] Right, there's a bit of about anticipation. [writing on board] Yeah. Anything else. Right.
[speaker001:] Anybody else wanting to be talking last day of term, it might be worthwhile now. Don't you think.
[speaker002:] Surely is. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Difference in roles.
[speaker003:] Right. It's it's about roles. Where am I coming from? What kind of role. And not only that, but where are they coming from, and how do I signal who I am? And indeed, if I'm in a different role to what I am normally. How do I make that particularly clear? They always see me as The Boss, and I don't want to The Boss. What are some of the ways that I can actually make that clear. Anything else? Perhaps just a couple of others, you may want to think about things like Questions. Let's have a few questions up our sleeve. Maybe some avenues, that we want to explore. [writing on board] You might want to think about things like that. What I also want to think about the model, the positive outcomes, remember that. If, maybe I've got a negative outcome to the relationship to this one, are there any things I
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker003:] or positive. So maybe I'll start off, maybe memories after you are only plans, start off with some positive plans. And you'll start working round something there. So that you can think about er... positive outlook is one of them. [writing on board] So perhaps, a host of things to think about in terms of preparation, maybe not all of those are gonna be suitable, a relevant few, preparation this evening, but perhaps, if focusing in at least some of those, might help to to give you the opportunity to persuade to influence your colleague.
[speaker001:] I think the only thing I'll say, you know, it's been a real odd situation, really, horse for your bit, you reckon how well do I know this person. The bit on the video, something to do with that bit, where she says to him, What did, what are you going to say? And what's he going to say to that. And what are you going to there. If she suddenly erm, you gonna have to, sort of, do this, I think it's ridiculous, but you know. You find a very very small group, and erm, perhaps you can do this yourself. Sounds ridiculous, but you say, oh erm, you're not gonna like this, and he's gonna say, bloody right I don't like you. So that's not good news Erm, if I can show the way of overcoming that problem, how, would you be interested, and you say, that problem's always been difficult for me, you know what can I say then, can't say, you ready to train yourself to think, you know, physically you a little bit of actually, putting yourself in their world. Remember you've got to influence them in their world, you can't just live in your own. You'll be very good, if left carrying on in their own world, for the rest of their time. Just think about it, I mean, in a real life situation, think about, ought you think about, imagine what how much do you know about, do you need to use your network, to find out what I do that but curtain across the window in case you get [LAUGHTER] what is it. So how do you get neighbours... as a senior employee there, you sell tickets to them. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Okay, so a whole of things to think about, certainly for the role plays tomorrow but, indeed, for a situation back in the real world. Okay, well maybe we could have called it a day now. However, what we're gonna do, is usually at nine o'clock in the morning er, ready to start filming. I think, has everybody got their pair, who they're working with,
[speaker001:] [clears throat]
[speaker003:] The person you've been working with over the last couple of days. That's alright, we can we can swap them round, I think, if we have them play first in one group and.
[speaker001:] I think we could work
[speaker003:] We'll work something out about what what's gonna happen. Work work with your pair, erm, for now, and overnight, what we'd like you do is, obviously decide for yourself your strategy, but also if you can brief your other half, as to how they need to play that role, to get you the best opportunity of practising the skills. Now I'm not looking to people to be totally bloody minded, erm, but I'm gonna for people to sort of totally cave in, erm, with these newly acquired influencing skills, because as we've said all along, they will work on some occasions, but they're not gonna work all the time. So, you need to make your colleague work for what they get, without being totally sort of bloody minded. But actually just cave in. Looking for about twenty minutes or so. Erm, to get some feedback at the end of those. Okay. Anything else Now, just before we all er disappear, can I just quickly check what we want to do about the departure. I guess there's only six of us, who probably finish about mid-day tomorrow, erm, of which time there are various options. Erm, you can have a twelve o'clock bus, if you wanted to sort of flee your premises, with a packed lunch, or without a packed lunch, if you er, if you don't want to do that. If you want to have a lunch, and then to just shoot off afterwards, we would probably get you in the staff lunch, I should think... but I'll need to check that, if not you'll have to wait till half past twelve, to have a, to have a lunch. Or erm, no, that's it, that's the various options.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker003:] . I think I'm gonna have lunch at one, so Right okay, we'll put you down for twelve.