[speaker001:] Oh! Just see if it's speaking to me. Sometimes it just won't work. that nearly works and stick that under there. Hear it?
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] We hear it. We're saying nothing.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] [] Now you just have to tell me about that that peedie er shop again Vera. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] I don't know that it was actually a shop
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker002:] but I think it would in fact you'd maybe find records of it in some of the old Orkney boats.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I'm sure that's where he got it.
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker002:] And er it's it was just a I think a sort of supply of stuff was kept at certain houses.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] So that folk maybe in the sort of parish didn't have to walk into the village to get it.
[speaker001:] To get it. Well
[speaker002:] And it well they certainly seemed to be to do with it at the burying like the the linen
[speaker001:] Yeah?
[speaker002:] and then the bows for the [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker002:] I suppose it would be when they well when they dressed that was the night they had a big celebration wasn't it.
[speaker003:] Aye that would be it.
[speaker001:] Mm. Was that that was that was the night or
[speaker002:] No. Yes that would the night when the body was put in the coffin.
[speaker001:] Coffin.
[speaker003:] Aye.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And a lot of the friends were asked to come
[speaker001:] To come Aha.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Because I've had a look through all the books that there was and er there's never more than what.
[speaker002:] Mhm. Well you see
[speaker001:] So it's something nobody knows much about what were like in Orkney.
[speaker002:] but this actually came from thinking about shops.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] And and things that that were sold you know in different places and this
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] small sort of shops that were well in Bremness and
[speaker001:] Aha. Mhm. And they would sell maybe the cloth
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] and and the what else would they sell?
[speaker002:] Well I don't know what else they had I think
[speaker001:] Ah.
[speaker002:] it was just more or less They they certainly wouldn't have food or anything like that I think it was just more or less the supplier or That would be
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker002:] when relatives called you see.
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] And so that the folk wouldn't have to trudge into the to to buy their stuff.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] No but you certainly nobody no woman ever went when I was young. Nobody. And in fact women weren't
[speaker001:] Mm. No.
[speaker002:] seen at funerals.
[speaker001:] Oh is that right?
[speaker002:] Yeah
[speaker003:] the woman was never seen
[speaker002:] They went into the either the upstairs room or the kitchen or somewhere, the door was shut and that was them.
[speaker001:] Oh I see so sort of on on the funeral day they they wouldn't even be in the house.
[speaker002:] Oh no no
[speaker003:] No no
[speaker002:] And and like when anybody died, your blinds were taken down.
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] And maybe a relative or a near relative would do the same.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] I can
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] mind being in in here with blinds down. And always when a funeral come down the school road, there's blinds would be taken down as well. As well as all
[speaker001:] Oh
[speaker002:] the folk in sc on the school road. Shops everything took their blinds down.
[speaker001:] A sign of respect I suppose was it not?
[speaker002:] Yes a sign of respect I suppose.
[speaker001:] And what about bairns, would they keep them in?
[speaker002:] Oh yes
[speaker001:] Rather then
[speaker002:] Oh yes and you didn't get to go to school. I mean you were kept home.
[speaker001:] Oh! Oh is that right?
[speaker002:] Yes. You you stayed at home.
[speaker001:] I see. Oh and you would you would just get a day off for the for the funeral if it was a near relative to you. Would it be?
[speaker002:] Yes but usually you were off school right from the person died to the to to after the funeral.
[speaker001:] How long would that be?
[speaker002:] Maybe three days.
[speaker003:] Three or four days.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Three of four days.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm just kind of
[speaker002:] Mhm. And then there's black clothes was worn. From top to toe.
[speaker001:] Oh yes I've heard of it. I've heard of it. That was the one thing that was that I read in the books that it was kind of tradition for the men to wear black.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] Oh but the women wore black too.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And if you I mean if you maybe couldn't afford to buy a new raincoat, you would have a big black diamond cut off a piece of cloth
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] and sewn on.
[speaker001:] Oh
[speaker002:] or an armband but it was usually a black diamond here that was worn.
[speaker001:] Really?
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Aye and the women would wear maybe grey.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] After or or a.
[speaker002:] Mhm. Mhm.
[speaker001:] Aha and what about hats? Would they have
[speaker002:] Oh well hats were worn.
[speaker001:] or or would they
[speaker002:] The funeral day they wore bowler hats.
[speaker001:] Oh really?
[speaker002:] Oh yes, the men wore I can remember my father wearing a bowler hat
[speaker001:] Oh really?
[speaker002:] Oh yes. And some of them may maybe the old women had a cap on but it was usually bowler hats.
[speaker001:] For heaven sakes, bowler hats. That's just
[speaker002:] That's with stiff white collars and
[speaker003:] Oh yes.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] That's that would be a complete suit then really wouldn't it? And would it be just kept for funerals especially.
[speaker003:] Oh well they usually had a dark suit
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] usually in a dark navy or
[speaker001:] Mhm so it would double as kind of a suit
[speaker002:] Oh yes
[speaker001:] it they wouldn't have just special clothes for the funeral?
[speaker002:] No no.
[speaker003:] No. the bowler hat was special
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker003:] the bowler hat.
[speaker001:] Aha. Yes I can imagine that would that would be special. It wo must have been I mean that was if you to get completely new clothes every time, that would have been an amazing expense wouldn't it.
[speaker003:] Oh no usually dark clothes.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker003:] You know.
[speaker001:] Ah. Well I suppose that's still a bit true.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker001:] try and wear the dark clothes.
[speaker002:] Oh yes yes.
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Mhm. So would it would it almost be two parts to a funeral then? A and a a burial. Was it the both both
[speaker002:] Oh yes
[speaker003:] Yes they don't now?
[speaker002:] No but
[speaker001:] Sometimes.
[speaker003:] Well well the undertaker
[speaker002:] Yes. Oh no there's no
[speaker003:] no report filed in like
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker002:] You see before there would be no women at the funeral so the women would maybe be
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker002:] you know they would come actually at that rather than funeral day.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Aha. So what what was the? What you call a wake? Would that be the same?
[speaker002:] Well yes, something the same. Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm. So were folk actually invited to that before? Really?
[speaker002:] Yes yes
[speaker001:] Cos that's something that's completely
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] changes and who were the invited? I read somewhere there was something called bidding?
[speaker003:] Just
[speaker001:] bids
[speaker003:] Near relations I suppose.
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker002:] Yes. And some would maybe just arrive if they thought they should be there.
[speaker003:] Oh I suppose so.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Mhm. And would the minister be there too?
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] That would
[speaker003:] Not at the
[speaker002:] No no.
[speaker001:] Aha. That would just be the near relations then?
[speaker002:] Mhm. Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] The undertaker
[speaker002:] And then they would all stay for tea or whatever.
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Mhm. So who would arrange for the funeral then? Would it be that head of the family? or the coffin maker?
[speaker002:] Oh yes usually. Aha.
[speaker003:] the undertaker.
[speaker002:] Oh yes I mean
[speaker003:] He maybe not
[speaker002:] Oh I think so I think they just you just contact the undertaker and he
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] he does everything else.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker001:] He does the the main thing. Cos I did hear on Sanday that erm it was a joiner that made the coffin. And he was the joiner was the undertaker.
[speaker002:] Well that's quite often the case.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker003:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker002:] And Bill that was here he was the same. He made the coffins.
[speaker003:] Yes but they don't do it now
[speaker002:] No no.
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker001:] Oh I see they don't so i No I suppose they're bought
[speaker002:] But it's still the joiner that's the undertaker.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yes that's right.
[speaker001:] Yeah. And it was er no it was a lady on Sanday, her dad had been the joiner there and she said that erm he acted as the funeral arranger as well.
[speaker003:] Aye
[speaker001:] He did so he actually organized the funeral. But I
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] thought that w couldn't have been normal. I was sure that it was usually the head of the family that organized that.
[speaker002:] Well I don't know.
[speaker003:] Well But it was sto er I mean to say they told er the undertaker who they wanted.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker003:] At one time they'd say, Oh just bid the whole parish.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker003:] And they'd be written cards put put out to everybody.
[speaker001:] Oh I see not a funeral notice?
[speaker002:] Yeah. Oh no no.
[speaker003:] No No. funeral notice
[speaker001:] Oh I s Oh really.
[speaker002:] That's that's
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker003:] I think the first time I remember that I thought, Lord that just looked like a dance advertised through the window.
[speaker001:] Yeah it does. Yeah.
[speaker003:] That was.
[speaker001:] Mhm. So I so there'd there'd be there'd be written to and would it be special paper?
[speaker002:] Well were posted.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] You know like there was always a boy that er went round the village
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] and just had the card with him.
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] And he had to be dressed in his Sunday best when he went round.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] And he just knocked on the door and you just came and you read the card and that was it. I mean you didn't get the card, he just had the one card
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] Mhm. Stewart doing that
[speaker001:] So this official card would be passed round. Mhm.
[speaker002:] so that's not so many years ago.
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker001:] Really is that right. I never n that's changed. And would this card be a a special black card or
[speaker002:] Oh yes.
[speaker003:] It was just a ordinary
[speaker002:] Aha just a aha
[speaker003:] black edge on it.
[speaker002:] Yes
[speaker001:] A black edge. Mhm.
[speaker002:] And you the wee envelopes that came in with the black edging on them.
[speaker003:] Oh yes.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] I see and and the boy that would be sent round would he be one of the family or related to any
[speaker002:] No no he would just be It would just be the undertaker would usually have somebody that did that.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Oh I see so
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] this was something they would
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] arrange.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] I see, I didn't realize funeral notices were that new. I just thought
[speaker003:] Ah well it's a good few years for this.
[speaker002:] Well Stewart still did it.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] But he would be the last of them in that did it.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm. So was there a chap in that made coffins then?
[speaker003:] Oh yes.
[speaker002:] At one time yes. Oh yes.
[speaker001:] Aha. And Bill
[speaker003:] And
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] And sis he do it for the whole of the island or just the was did the sort of parish have their own chap?
[speaker002:] Oh no the whole whole lot. Mhm.
[speaker001:] I see. Whole island. Mhm.
[speaker003:] .
[speaker002:] Oh yes.
[speaker001:] Oh there's two.
[speaker003:] Aye there's two.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] There's always two of everything. [LAUGHTER] And what did they look like? Were they cos I read this wife in Sanday said that her dad covered the coffins in black material. So that you didn't
[speaker003:] Aha so they did.
[speaker001:] see the wood.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Yeah that was right. And I mind er mother the first time
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] it was material.
[speaker001:] Mosh?
[speaker003:] .
[speaker001:] .
[speaker003:] And er I thought it was so bonny besides the black.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] So they were mauve mauve covered here.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] And would would erm the joiner do that himself then, he would do everything?
[speaker003:] Oh yes.
[speaker001:] Yeah. And cover it was well?
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm. And then once I suppose he wouldn't make it in the house would he he would have it made and brought to the house.
[speaker002:] No no he would
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Mhm, yeah. And then there would be the and then and while it would be while the f the coffin was in the house that it was was it?
[speaker003:] Aye that's right.
[speaker002:] Oh yes I mean the wh the funeral day, you would keep the blinds down that day too.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Yeah. So so it would about four days.
[speaker002:] the next day they you went to nothing.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] You didn't go to dances or anything like that.
[speaker001:] Yeah. And what about after the funeral day? Did it relax more then
[speaker002:] Oh yes.
[speaker001:] or was there a sort of spell afterwards too.
[speaker002:] Oh yes there would be you'd a year you would be supposed to be not very much.
[speaker001:] Oh heaven's Oh right.
[speaker003:] Oh yes,you wouldn't be supposed to go to a dance or corn or anything like that.
[speaker002:] Oh no. No.
[speaker001:] For about a year?
[speaker002:] Aha. By that time somebody else had died
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So you were [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] you wouldn't get.
[speaker001:] So you were in in mourning just like the [LAUGHTER] whole time [].
[speaker002:] I can remember you wearing black forever. Black slippers, black stockings black,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] black hat.
[speaker003:] And mother died and then father j well mother died in nineteen forty and father died in nineteen forty one. And I can't mind what er what dates..
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] I can't mind the dates. But it'll
[speaker001:] was this the time you had your black edged writing paper and black edged envelopes and
[speaker003:] No well I never that far but that was done and some would have the broad black
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] letters would come from in this broad black
[speaker001:] Oh is that right? Mhm. Mhm just to mark
[speaker003:] You never see that now.
[speaker002:] Oh no.
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker001:] No that's that's completely gone by the by yeah, yeah. Folk seem to I don't know have a different attitude completely.
[speaker002:] invitations to funerals lying somewhere. used to get them sent
[speaker003:] Aye
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] somebody had one that
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] What about the service? Would that take place in a church then or in the home?
[speaker003:] No in the house.
[speaker001:] In the house.
[speaker003:] Aye the home.
[speaker001:] Yeah. And and
[speaker003:] it was always the home.
[speaker001:] Mhm and that would be the time then that the women would go upstairs or into the kitchen or
[speaker003:] Aye Aha.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] funny mind, we were just speaking about funerals not that long ago and you were just saying like er you remember the, when he died,
[speaker001:] Oh yes aha.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] And I mean there was they walked to.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] it was a long trudge.
[speaker001:] That is a long trudge.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Going from
[speaker002:] And then it would just be well it would be a horse ca hearse then.
[speaker003:] Aye yes. Yes it was a horse
[speaker002:] Yes it would be pulled by horses.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Heaven sakes
[speaker003:] And mother was the last that was in that hearse.
[speaker002:] Was that right?
[speaker003:] Mhm nineteen forty, I don't think ever after that.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Is that right.
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker003:] that field there.
[speaker002:] James 's?
[speaker003:] Aye stood there and mind one halloween, the boys took it and set it in front of 's door.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Is that right?
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker001:] . [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] they must have
[speaker001:] Oh
[speaker003:] destroyed it. Mhm.
[speaker001:] Probably right enough. So would the coffin be carried out of the house then, into the hearse.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] And that would be the ma well that would be the like the closest
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] be like the bearers would do that?
[speaker002:] Aha. Aha.
[speaker001:] Do you ever mind them walking, carrying the coffin to the graveyard. Cos on a couple of islands the walked with the coffin.
[speaker002:] Yeah that that used to be I've seen on film I've seen that you know like in Stornoway and places like that they carried the coffins
[speaker003:] I suppose.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] I suppose that's where they had no roads maybe or no hearse or something.
[speaker002:] No no. No.
[speaker001:] There would always be a a hearse.
[speaker002:] Oh yes.
[speaker001:] Was that a special cart then?
[speaker002:] Oh yes.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm
[speaker002:] Aha. Special.
[speaker001:] Just just used for
[speaker002:] It was c it was covered. Wasn't it, the hearse was covered in?
[speaker003:] Yes it was just a
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] black coach you know with glass
[speaker002:] Something like a coach.
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Yes just like a coach.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Driven with horse driven.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm. And would the undertaker drive it?
[speaker003:] No. It was always a
[speaker002:] Well it was somebody who could work horses I suppose.
[speaker003:] Somebody well it was Magnus Bruce that used to drive it. Cos well I
[speaker002:] Ah.
[speaker001:] Magnus Bruce.
[speaker003:] don't know why. I don't know but he used to drive it.
[speaker002:] That would be Robert 's grandfather.
[speaker001:] Oh heaven sakes yeah.
[speaker003:] I think he I think he drove it.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm. So would this be just a a this hearse be just a black cart with glass and then a hood? Be quite, nobody would fit in it? Or did
[speaker003:] No no there's just Yes
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] I see. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] And then it would be Then would the mean follow the hearse?
[speaker002:] Yes yes.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Right to the graveyard and then it would be
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker003:] It was a long day you know.
[speaker001:] Yes it would be.
[speaker002:] some of them forgot to come back at night. They used to.
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Consolers. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] And what times would funerals normally be? In an afternoon?
[speaker002:] I don't know.
[speaker003:] Twelve o'clock usually.
[speaker002:] Twelve o'clock?
[speaker003:] Yes. Twelve o'clock used to be a great well as far as I can remember.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] It was twelve o'clock the funeral was a usually at.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker003:] And now it's usually two.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] That's right it's moved to the afternoon.
[speaker003:] well twelve before they walked the distance and got back again.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] That's well that's right. They'd be following the cart so it would be going slow wouldn't it.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Mhm. And er the minister would be at the house? Or would have to would he? Was the minister at the house? [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Whether he had to walk or whether I don't know.
[speaker001:] But he would be at the house anyway wouldn't he?
[speaker003:] Oh sure.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker003:] And old Mr our minister he he used to by pony and trap.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker003:] But I remember he never had a trap or anything.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Mhm. Yeah so he wouldn't have a tra And then they would So it would start I suppose folk would start arriving at the house quite early in the morning.
[speaker002:] Oh I would think so. Mhm.
[speaker001:] And then they'd have the funeral at twelve and then they would walk.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Right. And then was did they come back for tea at the house?
[speaker003:] No no that wasn't done then.
[speaker001:] I see. That's is that a new thing then?
[speaker003:] Yes. Er
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] I don't remember anybody coming back here
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Not
[speaker001:] So the women weren't staying at home in the itched to make things for or to back or anything?
[speaker003:] Oh no there was nothing of the kind no.
[speaker001:] Mhm. I see. And and they wouldn't be in the procession either?
[speaker003:] Oh no no. No no
[speaker002:] No no.
[speaker001:] No. Yes it'd be just be the men at the graveyard.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Cos in apparently the women attended too. But I've
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Yeah But I've never Yeah.
[speaker002:] attended as well.
[speaker001:] Oh is that right?
[speaker002:] that the women went there. But
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] how long ago that was I don't know.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] they certainly went there long before they did down here.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] That's right.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] And even still, there's not an awful lot of women go to funerals here.
[speaker001:] No no. You don't see it right enough. Not really. And then but it was seen as okay that the men could go to the pub after a funeral?
[speaker002:] Oh yes.
[speaker001:] Er that was
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Quite condoled. Mhm. So that's that's quite interesting too. Cos I wondered if funerals would would wo have been seen as another sign of disrespect. To have alcohol at it. But it doesn't seem to have been.
[speaker002:] Oh no no.
[speaker001:] And the wake would that always be The would that always be an evening thing?
[speaker002:] Always an evening thing yes.
[speaker003:] Yes. Aha.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Whereas the funerals was a whole day.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Well that's we've got quite a lot that's that's [LAUGHTER] brilliant []. you see none of that's written down because nobody
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] knows that.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] Er nobody knows that.
[speaker002:] Did they have wreaths in them days?
[speaker001:] Oh that's the other thing I meant to ask
[speaker003:] it was home-made wreaths.
[speaker001:] Home-made wreaths.
[speaker002:] Yeah, the people, what did they make them out of?
[speaker003:] Well evergreens.
[speaker002:] Oh I see.
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker003:] Well if there was flowers in
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker003:] growing at that time, it would have flowers stuck in.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker003:] But it was evergreens I can mind mother making them.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Oh really.
[speaker003:] Oh yes, I can mind mother
[speaker002:] Would it be gorse and wire and
[speaker003:] Well er just wire and they just laid evergreens you know and one and just them and them and made a circle and a
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker003:] everyday stuck them in.
[speaker002:] Oh yes.
[speaker001:] Mhm. So would every family make a wreath if it was you know somebody c near them, they'd make their own.
[speaker003:] Oh yes. Yes it was Yes make a wreath you know and send
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] . Yes.
[speaker001:] Oh heaven sakes cos that's that is a a new thing plastic flowers. Couldn't possibly have been there in the old days.
[speaker003:] Oh no no never saw any plastic flowers then.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker003:] But when evergreens you know was bonny white evergreen you know
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] and made a bonny wreath.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] Aha. white on it.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And just a small leaf on
[speaker003:] And just a small leaf
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Mhm. I know they make wreaths just like you're meaning in Germany f at Easter.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] A woman I was staying with made a wreath like that
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] specially for Easter and it was just exactly like you said.
[speaker003:] Aha.
[speaker001:] Wire and she twisted them.
[speaker003:] Twisted lay on and twist it and lay on you know.
[speaker001:] Aha. But it took her it used to take her quite a while I suppose it would take couple of hours to make a bonny wreath would it. Mhm. Yes it would
[speaker002:] Well I can mind us making a wreath at school when Miriam died, that was the only only body I ever remember dying when I was at school.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] And we eight maybe took meningitis and died
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] And I can remember we went and gathered violets. Bunches and bunches of violets.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] And they were tiny and we tied them in wee bunches and it was Miss who was the teacher then and she made a cross and put
[speaker001:] Oh how nice.
[speaker002:] Ad we tied on these bunches on the cross.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] And we went away up to to gather the violets.
[speaker001:] Heaven sakes.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] It's just been such, it's obviously been a thing that affected the whole community
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] That's what It seems that you don't It seems to affect the immediate folk and not many other folks nowadays.
[speaker003:] never wore anything but black from that day to the day she died.
[speaker001:] Oh really? Is that right?
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Never had a colour on her again.
[speaker001:] Heaven sakes.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] No that's erm quite
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Cos nowadays if you if you did something like that folk would say you'd gone a bit funny.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] They would say it's really affected you.
[speaker002:] Mhm. colour again.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Yeah that's just that's sad really.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Very sad. Yes that that is interesting. The other thing I was wondering is about the grave-diggers. nowadays they're at the side of the grave ready aren't they.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] After funerals. Was that so in the old days do you know? Or d
[speaker003:] I've no idea about that what they did at the grave?
[speaker001:] Yeah. Cos you wouldn't be there you see
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] It wouldn't be wouldn't be done. Mm.
[speaker002:] Well I know they're not allowed to dig down like what they used to do. I mean before they went quite a depth down sometimes.
[speaker003:] be two layer down.
[speaker002:] Yes well you see they're not allowed to do that.
[speaker001:] Oh!
[speaker002:] Cos you see and they could fall in.
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] There'd just be one of them there. But you see it's jut new regulations and a lot of the graveyards were on sandy ground and they'd be quite liable
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] to cave in.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So this is the that you're going over so much. Otherwise they'd have had had
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] had this shored up.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] always used to be sort of double depth down but they're not any longer.
[speaker001:] That's true.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Cos that's right it was quite traditional to put folk
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] kin, husband and wife and maybe
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] a bairn or something all in the one.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] That's right, I mind that. Well all this new the regulations are fairly new I think about
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Cos there wasn't a regulation afore about how deep they had to be.
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker001:] So or anything like that. I mind that right enough. Yeah. Well that is very interesting, that's helped me a lot. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] a bit for the for the archive.
[speaker003:] Bits and pieces.
[speaker001:] Bits and pieces. See if this grave-digger knows any more. I bet he won't know [LAUGHTER] much more than that [].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I would think every community would have sort of customs of their own to a certain degree too wouldn't they.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well this is that's what it says there too, it diff Doesn't it say there it's different
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] in Orkney but nobody knows what was different.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Nobody knows what was normal and what was different. But if it's true about the women going to funerals in, that's certainly different.
[speaker003:] Yes. That's right.
[speaker001:] Aha and maybe in in. That's that's certainly a a big big difference.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] From what from what would be here. Indeed. But that about the shops I I never knew. That you might have shops for
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] for that things but I suppose right enough. That would be quite different. listen if that worked. [recording ends]