[speaker001:] This the Tarmac Training Centre. We're recording for the National Corpus and we're testing at the moment for sound quality. The tape is currently running through to seven, seven, four.
[speaker002:] Right, something is happening. Right. Right, so this is what we're thinking about this morning. We're thinking about problem solving and ways of solving problems, because you are a manager, then it's often down to you to solve the problems, isn't it? People are going to come to you, we've got this problem, what are we going to do? Now that's fine with normal everyday problems that you're quite used to solving. But sometimes, and in the sort of quite turbulent conditions that we work in now, problems are very complex, and very difficult. And it's not easy to find ways to solve them. And the tried and true w, tested [LAUGHTER], the tried and tested ways aren't necessarily going to be of any use to you. You want some new fresh ideas. We can get stuck in tramlines. So some of the things that we're going to be looking at this morning is ways for you to use, that the people working with you can come up with some new ideas, but you can also use these ways yourself, because sometimes you don't have the luxury of people to help you with your problem. So we, we're going to look at those sorts of things this morning. The first thing we're going to think of though, are the roles of people that you have in your team and how they might be able to help you in solving the problems. We're going to work through the Belvin test. Anybody done the Belvin test already?... Yes,, oh, right. Well, the Belvin test is, it's quite straightforward when you come to do it. It's one of these things that sound much more complicated than when I explain it to you. You find you have, I think it is seven questions, and each of the questions gives you various answers. You have ten marks for each question or each statement, and you allocate the ten somewhere around there. You might think that E is so important to you that it's ten, and that's quite alright you can do that. Or you might decide you're going to put two there, two there, two there and spread out the ten. You can do it however you like. It is up to you. Now in this test you cannot be wrong, because you're looking at personality, so how can you be wrong with your personality? I'm not going to ask you what you are, it is for you alone to know, so have a look at it, work your way through it, allocate your ten marks to each of these questions.... You should end up with er, up to question seven. Right. O K, yes...., Right, I'm now going to hand out the score sheets for you, don't worry about the initials at the top of the columns, because they will become clear as we go on. So all you do now, you look at the questions that you've answered, and let's say for question one, you gave erm, a two to G, the two goes in there, one to F, you move along there, three to H, you move along there. So you move along each question first of all, and then you total up afterwards. Then I will tell you what each of these initials.... As you add it up, you'll find that some columns are very low, they may have nothing in them at all, that, that's alright. you may get one very high, again that's alright.... Right, right then [LAUGHTER] [clears throat] I just agree with that's all. Right, have we all got there then?. Now what I'm now going to do, I'm going to tell you what these initials are, so if you, on the back of the piece of the paper, you make some notes, because some of these obviously are going to be what you, your personality is, but you also need to note, if you look at the type of things that you can expect from different people in the teams, or the strengths and weaknesses that some people may have in your team. So we start off with the first one that you have, this C W, that stands for company worker.... and the role of the company worker is to turn concepts and plans into practical working procedures. [clears throat] Excuse me. Turning con, concepts and plans into practical working procedures... and the attributes that these people have is [clears throat], you know company workers, or you are one yourself, is that they have self-control, self-discipline,... they're realistic,... common sense,... but, there's always a but side to these things isn't there? Erm, they can lack flexibility..... The next one then, number two on your list, C H is for the chairman,... Chairman, and the role of chairman, is controlling the way in which a team moves forward towards the group objective.... The strengths that these people show are an ability to command respect,... and to inspire enthusiasm.... They're usually good at communicating....
[speaker001:] Inspire, sorry?
[speaker002:] Erm,in, sorry, enthusiasm.
[speaker001:] Inspire enthusiasm.
[speaker002:] Yes.... and they're good at communicating.... But then it's not necessarily very creative. Nor does, do they need to have good intellectual powers..... Then we have number three, the F H, who's a shaper.
[speaker001:] What shape?
[speaker002:] Md.... And their role is to set the objectives and priorities for the team... and to impose shape or pattern on discussions and activities....
[speaker001:] Will shape and pattern?
[speaker002:] On discussion and group activities.... Their strengths are that they will have drive and self-confidence,... and the weaknesses, they're intolerant towards vague ideas and people....
[speaker001:] Vague and?
[speaker002:] Vague ideas and people.... You know these airy-fairy types who've got no, you know, bothered with those. Er, number four then, the P L, is a plant.
[speaker001:] How do you spell it?
[speaker002:] That's right you've got it. Yes. A plant.... And it's the role of the plants is to bring new ideas to the group,..., change the approach to problems... and the strengths that a plant has is that they're often independent,... with high intelligence.
[speaker001:] That's what's called a relative computer. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] And a lot of imagination and they're a pain to work with.... And the reason that they're a pain to work with, is because they can be impractical... and not very good at communicating with other people..... Number five,... er, resource investigator is R I,.... Their role is to explore and report on ideas, developments and resources outside the group. Explore and report on ideas, development and resources outside the group..... They create external contact..... And the strengths of this sort of person is they're er, often outgoing, relaxed personality,...
[speaker001:] Like what sort of person?
[speaker002:] Outgoing and relaxed personality.... They're very inquisitive....
[speaker001:] Like some management
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well I'll be polite,... and er, they, their weaknesses, the problem is, they can be over-enthusiastic and not follow on, on things..... Number six the M E is the monitor evaluator.... And their role is to analyse problems... and to evaluate ideas. Their strengths are that they have a critical thinking ability.
[speaker001:] What's that?
[speaker002:] Their strengths are that they have a critical thinking ability... and they can be objective..... Their weaknesses they can be hypercritical,... and over-serious..... Number seven, it's the last one, is it seven?
[speaker001:] Oh, no there's two to go.
[speaker002:] Oh, eight, O K. Right, er, the T W is the team worker.... and the role of the team worker is to support members of the team by building on their suggestions,..., they improve communications and foster team spirit.... The strengths of these people are that they are flexible,... popular,... and they have good listening skills..... But they can lack decisiveness.... and they dislike friction and competition..... The last one then, erm, C P is the completer.... and their role is to see that the team is protected as far as possible from mistakes... and they also maintain a sense of urgency within the team.... The strengths that these people show are that they have an ability to combine a sense of concern, with a sense of order and purpose....
[speaker001:] What's that?
[speaker002:] They have an ability to combine a sense of concern, with a sense of order and purpose..... They can be impatient,... and intolerant towards people of a casual disposition and habit..... Now if you go back and see what your scores were, and you say no, that's not me, I'm not a bit like that.... But I know somebody who is like it... That's the sort of thing you say, no I'm not like that, but I know people that I work with who are like it.... Anybody find that it absolutely like they are? You know they're a really good description of their character? Oh, good, good. It's very well known this test, [clears throat] the Belvin test, it is very well known. Erm, it's used a great deal, erm, as we the sort of people's work as they work in teams. Now then, what sort of people do you think it's most important then to have in a team, because you'll only have a very small team? Who would you pick to be in your very small team of say perhaps four people?
[speaker001:] Chairman
[speaker002:] Bob said he'd have a chairman, yes, to er, pull the whole thing together.
[speaker001:] It seems to me you need a shaper don't you? You've got to have somebody that's, that's obviously going to save a mortice lock to you.
[speaker002:] Hopefully yes. What is going to be good at solving their problem?
[speaker001:] Doesn't it depend what the team's objectives are? No
[speaker002:] It would do yes, but w,wo, imagine that they're there because the team's now for solving problems.
[speaker001:] You need a company worker.
[speaker002:] Somebody to get the work done, yes.
[speaker001:] Monitor evaluator?
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] And
[speaker002:] Somebody that I said was very difficult to work with, or can be.
[speaker001:] Plant
[speaker002:] A plant yes, because if you're solving problems you want somebody to come up with some good ideas to get you out of your rut. This is what you want. So those are the sort of things that, those sort of people that you definitely want. And then, you know you think well erm, this sort of the area we're going, I might look for a person, you know, particular types of person. You look at the others, then so who do you particularly want in your team. If you ever get to this wonderful stage of being able to pick your own team, it would be marvellous wouldn't it? And of course, [LAUGHTER] That's right yes, make them do the test first [] [clears throat] and of course, you may very well need some specialists depending again on as we said, whatever your team has got to do. That they would fit in as well. Well that's, that's the one test, the Belvin test. There is another test that I want to refer to, that we can't actually do, because you have to be qualified to do this test, and it's very, very complicated, and all the rest of it. Just let me explain what it is. Has anybody done the K A I test?.... No, nobody's done the K A I test. Right I'll just explain quickly what it is then. It was devised by erm, a man called Michael Curtain, and it's the er, Curtain Aptitude... I've forgotten what the I's for now, oh, well anyway, it's probably it's deducted in the basis. And what he says is that you can see people on a continuum. Now what I can't explain why, is that he starts with thirty two, now whether he sort of gets muddled up with the sort of the system of something I don't know, but for some reason best known to himself, he starts with thirty two, and the continuum goes up to a hundred and sixty. He maintains that when you do this test, which will show how you approach problem solving, you will be somewhere along that continuum. Most people are in the hundred, the eighty or hundred and twelve. Most people fit in around there. It's quite interesting when they get people to do this test erm, if they fit into certain categories, depending upon their job as well, it's almost, it is strange, that you do get erm, say solicitors to do it. Most solicitors would fit in a certain category, but if you go to another group of people, they would fit in, engineers, they would fit into another category. Which is, is quite interesting the way it actually works out. And what it's saying is your, the pattern of behaviour that you're likely to adopt when you come to do problem solving. Now down at this end then, these are the adapters, and at this end, these are the innovators. So it depends on what your score is when you actually do the test. Now how you'll be when you're seen as being more of an adapter, or more of an innovator. It's very good to compare how people see you, because if for example, your score came out we'll say at a hundred but you work mainly with adapters, the innovators who were up here, they're going to think that you're an adapter. It very much depends on the people work with. But on the other hand say you're a hundred and you're working more with adapters they're going to really think you're a strong innovator. So you have to bear that in mind as well. So what's the difference between them then?... We can give some way to describing these people, this is how adapters are generally seen. They're seen as being reliable, they'll use a standard approach so that when they come to solve a problem, what do we, what did we do before? Let's tackle it as you've done before, you know, this, this was safe, this was good, we know it works. Things like that. They'll improve on it, or they might adapt it, see if they can change it in some way in that case, and they'll act in a cohesive way. We don't want to be falling out with people, and they don't work well together, and it is important to adapters. They're cautious, and they're practical. They do all the things the description's given for adapters. Innovators on the other hand, they're all right down here, are seen as being undisciplined. They will challenge assumptions, so when the adapters go, we've always solved the problems like this, the innovator will say why. Why do you do it like that? Well it works. It's. Yes, but why? You know, they sort of really rub people up the wrong way. They will refrain. Well let's look at the problem in a different way then. Let's turn it on it's head. There must be another way of looking at things. They're often abrasive, they're not bothered about getting on with people, that isn't important to them. Challenging, go for these problems and find a way of solving it. They don't mean to upset people, it's not they go out to be particularly, you know, horrible. But they're, they're seen as being abrasive, because that is a part of their code to really get on with people. They'll take risks [whispering] Let's do so- and-so, and have a go at doing it this way [] And they're often idealistic. So you can see when you get these two people together, it can be very difficult if you've got them in a team. Especially if you get them at the, the far end of the continuum. But you also need them in your team, because if you're trying to solve a problem that is difficult, or what's called a messy problem, we'll come back to nice messy problems in a minute, you need somebody to come up with some good ideas, some ways of solving it. And having done that, you then need some people, in fact, so you do need the two types of people and if you are the team leader, you have to find some way of getting them to work together. It is that, it isn't necessarily an easy thing, because these, these innovators are seen as being undisciplined and unrealistic and you know, they have these airy- fairy ideas. We'll do so-and-so, and they walk away and leave it, and the adapters they say, they see the adapters as stick in the muds, ooh, they all do the same old thing, ooh, it's boring and that sort of thing you see. So it, it isn't an easy thing but you do need to attempt to bring the two together for the benefit of team and solving the problem. An easy way of sort of getting round it is to say that adapters do it better, and innovators do it differently. This is how they er, tend to compromise with it. Any idea what you think you might be if you look at that, look at some of the questions, some of the descriptions? When I said that we would need a plant in our team, then would he be seen as being more of an innovator? The plant would be like that. It's very interesting test, Curtain says, he maintains that once you've done the test, you know, and you find out what you are, you are that forever. Other people say no this isn't the case because you change, then you come and do your work within your circumstances.
[speaker001:] It depends on what you're working on as well
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] You wish you could
[speaker002:] Yes, yes, he, he sticks this out, but other people are sort of beginning to challenge him and say that, you know this isn't necessarily the case. It also seems to be that it's different in different cultures. So you know, get say people from this country and America doing it, and they would come out different say to people from Japan, because their culture is different and certain different things are expected of them. But it, it, it is interesting, and I, in any case, we still need these two types of people, it doesn't change that. Because what we want to do when you're solving your problem you want to diverge and converge. It's important that you use both of these types of people in that sort of way. So you throw the problem in, you get as many ideas as you can. If you see, throw it wide open, so it can safely give you lots of ideas, and then you can say to people who are adapters, right now what can we do with these in five years? How can we adapt them to the problem that will, the situation we're in. So that's what you need to be doing when you're with your team. We now want to be thinking about, oh, let me show you the er, I nearly forgot. This is a description then, of the adapters and innovators. So the adapters are attempting to get up the career using sort of tried and tested ways of digging and sort of hauling each other up, and this sort of thing. The usual way that you might attempt to get up a er, tree. Where as innovators say that's boring, er there's got to be better ways of doing it you see. So they have to do it, to be shot through a cannon, and off a see-saw and various things like this. You know with a balloon, there's just got to be a better ways of doing it instead of having to use boring ways. That's just a very you know, graphically describes the difference between the two. And it says then it isn't anything to do with intelligence or anything like that. You get people from all sorts of walks of life, who can be in these different ways. We're going to imagine now then that you are in a situation where you've got to solve a problem. A problem that's come your way and it isn't the usual problems that you can quickly find an answer to. This is what's known as a messy problem. You don't really know what it is. It's so woolly that you don't even really know what this problem is. You've got to get into it, to find out what's going on. And there are four phases to this type of problem solving. And you can use different techniques in each of the phases. And as I said, you can use these techniques with your team, or you can adapt them to use them on your own, because you don't always have somebody to help you.... I'm going to give you examples of some of the things that you could, if I can find anything to write with, yes, some, some methods that you can use, because there are lots of methods that you can use in problem solving. It's a very, very exciting field, it really is, there's lots of work being done on it, it's extremely exciting. I'm just going to give you a couple of things that you can use for each of these phases, and when you get used to them, you can really spread out and do all sorts of other exciting things. You know, sky's the limit with this. So, the first one then. Let's imagine somebody wonders in to John Major one day and he says you know, I've a bit of a problem John. Er, the er, we're losing confidence in us. Not, not too happy with what's going on. And he, all amazed, do think right, nothing relevant is happening. We'd better get a group working on it. So this group is going to get together now and think well, we're losing confidence in our party, but really what actually is happening? That's such a huge thing to say, that you can't begin to tackle it. It's a messy problem. So they've got to now begin to home in and find out what things they could start to tackle. So you start off, you put your problem in a box down here. Problem here.... We'll call it that for now, no-one's actually voting at the moment but it, it's covers the same thing you see. It's the same thing. Can't let this go on, they'll be in trouble if they let it go on. Right, so that's the problem.... What might have caused that?... Give me something that might have caused that situation to lose confidence.
[speaker001:] Incompetence.
[speaker002:] O K, incompetence. Somebody else say something.
[speaker001:] Scandal
[speaker002:] Scandal..... Is that how you spell it. It's amazing when you get it up, it can't be right. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Is that it, just that?
[speaker001:] financial
[speaker002:] Right, I'm just going to call it finance....
[speaker001:] What about unemployment?
[speaker002:] ... O K unemployment.
[speaker001:] What the papers say.
[speaker002:] We'll put media, I can't get it all in. [LAUGHTER] yes,... anything else?... there must be something else you can put up there to make it er,
[speaker001:] Foreign policy.
[speaker002:] Foreign policy, that'll do....
[speaker001:] Stronger competition.
[speaker002:] Competition.
[speaker001:] Stronger competition.
[speaker002:] O K
[speaker001:] Or popularity might be a better way of looking at it. I don't know.
[speaker002:] ... Right, let's see if we can find some things that come up here. Somebody else might leave it on their own just there. What else can we say about being incompetent. Who is incompetent?
[speaker001:] All of them, the Prime Minister.
[speaker002:] ... I think you could give it, that one all to himself then. Right er, what about scandals?
[speaker001:] That's about sex [LAUGHTER] It's back to basics. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] basics []
[speaker001:] I think it's about basics.
[speaker002:] two things.
[speaker001:] Normal basics. Skeletons in the cupboard.
[speaker002:] Right or...
[speaker001:] Unwanted children Single mothers
[speaker002:] Only I think we're happy that you can put in profligacy.
[speaker001:] Yes [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Yes,, get on there, what about the unemployment?...
[speaker001:] Isn't there unemployment in the South?
[speaker002:] Yes, that's to show it's regional, it is regional, if I just call it regional then. Get it, probably get it all on the board eventually.
[speaker001:] Lack of apprenticeships?... Poor education?... No engineering future [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] This is all coming from the heart, [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] schools That's very popular Town [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] We can't get much more in there, are you. How about finance then?...
[speaker001:] Corruption Risk... ... Wage claims...
[speaker002:] O K what about the er, foreign policy?
[speaker001:] The situation with Europe.
[speaker002:] I'm going to call it E C to get it in.
[speaker001:] Foreign aid...
[speaker002:] O K, I just hope we won't run out of space here.
[speaker001:] Military cuts N A T O
[speaker002:] Cuts... How about the strong competition?
[speaker001:] There's no opposition to it. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] What else? O K,
[speaker001:] They don't take advantage of the state of the economy.
[speaker002:] If I said not take for granted in here... advantage. What about the media?
[speaker001:] No control It seems they might like to get a lot of things. What can will we do now? Turncoats to traditions and
[speaker002:] Right now, we've a lot there. Imagine then that there's this group of people, if, can you see now, it's made like a fish bone, and that, that's the whole idea, a fish bone diagram.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] As long as it's close [] That's the thing, as long as it's close. Now supposing then, this committee that John Major's set up do something like that, and they get that down on paper. Get together for discussion and they get that down on paper. Obviously they can't do everything all at once. They might think to themselves, what is the most important thing for us to home in on first of all? Controlling the media, yes. Once you get that down, this then becomes the area that they might think, let's do something about that. Because it's the media that's got them on the run isn't it? Every time they open their mouths, they're there and they're doing something about you. It amazes me that they don't use it, they don't use the media in some way. But when you first say you've got this problem, they're losing votes, the media isn't necessarily the first thing that's going to come to your mind. You might. But it's only by sort of putting it out like this and thinking yes, the media wants to talk about this, talk about that, talk about the other, you know, they are in this case the most, the likely thing to be adding to the problem. And they are something that they could probably do something about. Try and get them on their side, or work on them or something. We don't actually want them gagged, do we, but er, it might come to that in the end might we? So that's one way of trying to, when you get your messy problem, and you think I don't [clears throat], I don't know what it is, I don't know what's going on, I can't really get into it. Do something like that. Draw it up, and here we just took suggestions from everybody, but what you can do, if you're on your own, write it down on a piece of paper, and ev, when every time something occurs to you, you put it down. Over a period of days. We're not saying you've got to do this in five minutes. There isn't any time limit. You might say, by the end of the week I'm hoping to get that completed, and I'll, then I'll see what I've got. So that's how you go, using the fish bone diagram..... Or you can build up a tree. Anybody want to suggest a problem? You know, something that really is big, that's major to go at. Having solved the problems of the Conservative Party, I mean we, we could get very good at this aren't we? [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Traffic in the city.
[speaker002:] O K... Traffic in the city. We're saying that that is our problem then. Now we're going to start to look at, up here. If you look at the causes. What are the causes of this problem of traffic in the cities?
[speaker001:] Poor roads No public transport
[speaker002:] I'll just put public transport, because it's er, you, you'll realise it means that won't you.
[speaker001:] Concentration of business people
[speaker002:] Gosh that's a lot to say isn't it. [LAUGHTER]. Erm,
[speaker001:] Business density
[speaker002:] Oh good,... O K, any other causes you'd like me to think about?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Till you pass. Hours of business. Sporting events.
[speaker002:] Hours actually would come off there. You can start now to get your, because this is your tree, this is your tree, here's your branches, and then you start to get your twigs coming off, the way do, so, so and that also, you see that, that can link up with, like that can't it? Erm, did you say, er sport?
[speaker001:] Sporting events
[speaker002:] Sporting events. So that'll still come off here, wouldn't it?.... O K anything else that we might want to say around those things, that go off. [clears throat]
[speaker001:] Airport locations...
[speaker002:] Any twigs coming off there? [clears throat]
[speaker001:] The way people see it, erm, that just one person in a private car, seen Taxis are a nuisance, parking of. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] That was, would you put that on it's own, or would you put that with something else now?
[speaker001:] It goes with the transport section It probably goes in the Lack of investment
[speaker002:] And that will go with that, but also go with roads wouldn't it? O K, roadworks.
[speaker001:] Political working, deregulation
[speaker002:] Where would you put that?
[speaker001:] Under control
[speaker002:] Put that one in here, a twig in here.
[speaker001:] Three days of spring [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Right
[speaker001:] how untrue
[speaker002:] Right, well let's say we can go on and go on obviously with this. Now we want the consequences, down the bottom of our tree then.... Oh, what would be the consequences do you think of this, prediction?
[speaker001:] Unhealthy residents From, from, from pollution
[speaker002:] Is that, that going to, coming from pollution really isn't it? I'll just put poor health.
[speaker001:] Cost, noise
[speaker002:] That's another thing to do with pollution really isn't it.
[speaker001:] Stress
[speaker002:] Out of pollution.
[speaker001:] no
[speaker002:] No
[speaker001:] Accidents... Economic er, Economic resources.
[speaker002:] Erm, that had better come over here really hadn't it. Erm.... Let's call it just economic you get to the point of going on before you. Right anything you want to take off some of these things then?
[speaker001:] Children, risk to the children.
[speaker002:] And old people, and people
[speaker001:] Damage to property, perhaps
[speaker002:] With accidents, or pollution?
[speaker001:] Both
[speaker002:] Both?
[speaker001:] Both probably yes. There's crime in traffic in cities now. They've got this new thing. Mugging of one in a car, you know Jamming, car jamming of people, yes I can't think of it as fashion I believe it's more hard to get [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] That really is er, a separate thing isn't it, the er, the crime?... you, you, you see the sort of things that we're doing. You, you, you build this up, now, and then you get to the point where you're going to say to yourself, well, do we have to do anything about it? Is it really something that is important? Somebody's coming here to look, what is the problem here? And when you do this, you can say to yourself, you can see is it really something that's important. Now the consequences of leaving it, are what makes you decide whether it's something that's important, and therefore you've got to do something about it. And if somebody came to you with those sorts of things, you'd think to yourself, it can't just go on, and gradually just build up and build up. So then again, you start to look at the causes, and the, the big sorts of things. You want to start out, and try and work in with your tree. Home in on a cause that you can do something about. You can't tackle that problem just as it is. Again it is a messy problem. It's all sorts of things contributing to it. So you highlight all these things, and then you might say, right in this town, in this city, we're going to concentrate on, and you pick one thing. It might be
[speaker001:] Build a bypass.
[speaker002:] Yes, a bypass, yes. There's money to make But it, this is such a difficult problem, you can't just anything about it, so let's get the cars out. Yes, that may be what you decide to actually do. You may say, let's improve the public transport, and let's have er, park and ride. And then, and that, that may solve all sorts of problems for you, if you were going to do that sort of seven days a week, let's say from seven in the morning until, I don't know, nine at nigh, at night or something. That might solve a lot of problems. You've got, you'd have to decide, but by looking at that, you could then start to tick off the things that that would help to solve. So that's another way for you to decide which bit of the problem you're going to actually start on. Before you really get down to doing anything, you've got to look at the problem, and, and really sort of try and analyse what is going on, and what bit of the problem are you going to work on. Once you've done that, you've said right you'd like to go on, the problem we're going to solve is not John Major's, something to do with me here. That's our problem, that, that's what we're really going to home on first of all. Me, here. Here you might say what we're really going to solve, look at now, is public transport. So you have your group sitting round and you say, this is our problem now that we're going to actually home in on. So now you're on to phase two. Of really generating solutions now to solve that part of the problem.... And what you want, you want people to come up with as wild as ideas as possible. You don't want safe, tried ideas. You want somebody to come up with some divergent ways of thinking. Lateral thinkers. And when they come up with something which you think, oh, stupid idea. The daftest thing to say, you don't actually say this to them, you think oh hello, perhaps we can adapt that, perhaps it's going to lead into something else. Remember I said you've got to have these sort of safe, situations with the people that work for you. Open communication and they can say something like well why not kill off half the population, and you think well how stupid a thing. I don't know, perhaps really like to relocate people, you know, that might be something which came as one of things they did wasn't it, in the fifties and sixties. They actually relocated people out of cities, they didn't really kill them off, just put them somewhere nobody else wants to be. Things like that. So these are the sorts of things that you want to be looking for. So, some of the best ways of doing this is brainstorming. Everybody used to brainstorming? It's really easy, very easy. What you do, you have your group together, and you have a facilitator, somebody that presents the problem, and you also have somebody that's going to be the scribe. All their job is just writing. You either want er, a white board like this, or several flip charts, and you, you sit round and you tell them that they can say anything they like, no holds barred, and nobody's going to criticise anything they say. The problem is presented to them, and then they think about it for a minute, and then they say anything that comes into their head. And I mean anything. and the scribe just writes it up, as fast as he can. As long as he can write fast and legibly and they write it up as fast as he, they can. And the, the idea is that it's quantity that breeds quality. Because the more ideas you get, the better your problem solving is likely to be. If you only get a few ideas, you've only got a few things to look at. Whereas the more ideas you get, the more things you have to look at, the more chances you've got of getting something that's really good and unusual. But you don't at any stage say, what did you say that for, you know, something like that, you just don't do that sort of thing. You allow people to say what they like, write it down, you have to set a time limit because people get tired, it is a very sort of, it takes a lot of energy to do this, and concentrate on it. So you set your time limit, right we'll have say twenty minutes, half an hour at the most, then you stop and look at it, and say anybody want to add anything else. When you've finished, you just tear off all your flip charts, and put them up round the room or something so people can Right then, we're on to stress. The thing that nobody was worried about. Remember your objectives, nobody was concerned about stress were they? Let's see then. First of all, I want you to write down, the first words that come into your mind, the first say half a dozen words that come into your mind when you think about stress....
[speaker001:] This is stressful [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Oh we haven't started yet [LAUGHTER]. [clears throat]. Let me say now, that most of things that we do in this part of the course, I don't ask you to tell me what you've written down, stress is a very personal thing, your reaction to it, so don't worry, you write down anything that you want to write down, because it is for you. Right, now have a look at what you've written, and ask yourself the question, is it negative?... Almost everybody will have written down negative aspects of stress, because that's what we think about whenever anybody mentions stress, it's always bad. It's bound to be bad. We want, first of a, think first of all that stress in necessarily all bad. The definition that I work to is this one. [reading] A stressful circumstance is one with which you cannot cope with successfully or believe you cannot cope with successfully [] That's the important thing. How much results in unwanted physical, mental or emotional reaction. It's the belief bit that's important. What's stress to one person isn't stress necessarily to another.... We want to look at stress now, and realise that it is not all negative, in fact some people actually go out and seek a fair amount of stress. And you'll see why in a few moments.... Have a handout and we'll look at the different types of stress [clears throat]...
[speaker001:] I've got two sets, two different sets, it doesn't say.
[speaker002:] Problems, Problems?
[speaker001:] It's a bit stressful this, isn't it?
[speaker002:] Oh, it is very stressful yes, [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Yes, you, you hang on to those, and these will come round later on. These, these will worry you later. How.... yes, you've picked up two lots sorry.... O K,... let's look at the three faces of stress.... These may be very, likely some of the words that you've already written down. The negative side of stress is also called, cause dis-stress. Things like worry, pressure, fear, pain, fatigue, insomnia, illness, all these sorts of things. It's all the negative aspects of it,.... And then we get what's known as neutral stress, these are conditions really that can cause stress, but it's stress that could go either way.... Change for example, can be very stressful when you work through it, in your private life, or in your family life. A lot of people don't like change, and yet we don't want to stay as we are. Crisis again, can be very worrying as you go through it. Money, well they tell me that people who have a lot of money are as stressed as those that don't have it. I've yet to be convinced of this, I'm still waiting to find out. But is one of these things, obviously you know, money does cause lots of worries and problems. Communication again, that can go either way. And people, a lot of your stress will be caused by people because they're unpredictable to control like that. And then we get the other sort of stress, the positive stress that's also called use-stress. A challenge, we like a challenge, we enjoy a challenge, we want this. Children, I'm, I wonder why children are in that column because I think that they can cause you, you know all sorts of other problems. Promotion, we go out to cause promotion, but when you first get it, it can be very stressed as you come to terms with your new situation. And marriage, again, it's something that we want. We look forward to it, but it, it can also have its other problems as well, doesn't it. And success, we want success, crave for success, we go for success, but you can be very stressed by directly doing it..... As I said, people go out looking for stress. They want it. How many times have you heard people say, I'm really at my best when I'm challenged. You know, when the chips are down, when the deadline gets near, that's when I work at my best. And this is, it is true for some p, it's true for a lot of people, that they really want to be challenged.... This is what happens. When people are not challenged they're here. Because tho, their performance is low, they're not challenged, and the, the you know, life is difficult isn't it? These are the people who're bored. They suffer from fatigue, they hear of housewives being stressed, and they say look at the stress of housework. It's because they're bored. There's no challenge to what they're doing. They get frustrated. Life, you know, it's miserable for them. What we want is to be working here. A high performance, and a, the amount of stress that is right for us. And then, we are at our most creative. We're good at problem solving [clears throat], we're really chal [clears throat], excuse me, we're really challenged when we have the right amount of stress for us.... We feel satisfied with life, because we feel we're getting somewhere. But what happens in most, many jobs, many situations? It's piled on isn't it? And then you come right down here, the stress becomes too great. We're over-stimulated. And this is where the illnesses come from, and it's because we can't cope, our self-esteem goes. We ought to be able to cope, we feel bad about things, and so we come right down here, withdraw and can't cope..... Precisely..... You might say to yourself, well, how serious is this problem, is it just another er, American thing. You know, they've done all these tests over there, for all these Americans that can't cope, is that what it is really, and somebody's imported it into this country. Is that really what we're talking about. No we're, we can cope here can't we?
[speaker001:] We're alright.
[speaker002:] No problems here. Well let's have a look at a few figures then, as to why we do need to consider it. They estimated that stress costs a thousand pounds per employee per year... to businesses. It's costing them a thousand pounds per employee per year. You might think, so what, that's alright, they put the pressure on, they've got to pay the price. So let's bring it down to a really personal level then. The average employee loses one and half years of their working life due to stress,... and very of, very seldom is it in one lump, because people have very severe breakdowns don't they? Very severe illnesses. Most of your working life, one and half years of the average employee's working life is lost is stress related.
[speaker001:] How do they measure it?
[speaker002:] Sorry?
[speaker001:] How do they measure it?
[speaker002:] Looking at the di, the time you have off work. And why you have time of work
[speaker001:] , a lot of people are not honest, to be non-productive at work as opposed to actually off work.
[speaker002:] Stress, stress related illnesses.
[speaker001:] People aren't always off work.
[speaker002:] No but you see, you've got to look at the type of, we look at the type of illnesses that people suffer from in a minute, and sort of, you know, a day here, a week there, somebody has a month somewhere else. And of course, some people do have a large block of time don't they, because you know, they, they have very severe illnesses, and it builds up. But that's it, that's what, that's what the average is. So, it is something that we need to look at, and study. And what we're going to be looking at is what causes stress. Not at what it is, what causes it. How your personality is going to affect your reaction to stress. It's a very personal thing. We look at some ways of coping with it, and also recognising it in other people, because if you've got people working for you, and they're stressed, and they have time off work, you've got to carry things on, haven't you? You've got to keep things going, you've got to cope. So you need to know if they're stressed, and what you can do about it. There are certain things you can do about it. So what's happening then when you're stressed. We've looked at the different types of stress, what is happening to you when you're stressed. Any type of stress, what is actually happening?...
[speaker001:] say that, I don't, I've got it wrong [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Now our bodies haven't changed since caveman died. We evolved that far, and we haven't changed that much since. So let's think what happened to the caveman then. Life was very difficult for him or her, and they'd be out. A lot of their time was spent looking for food, wasn't it? I think that was how they had to be, and they'd be out in this very dangerous environment looking for food, and suddenly they'd be aware that they'd, the were coming. It's more dangerous because a mammoth was near. What can you do?
[speaker001:] Run [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Most likely he's going to run isn't he? to get away. If he's really cornered, he might think well I've got to fight, I've got no way round it. But he's either got to run or fight. And certain things are going to happen in his body to help him to cope with that situation. These are things that will happen.... The sense organs, either his sight or his hearing tell him that he's in danger. There's something there that he's got to deal with. Immediately his heart rate increased. His blood vessels dilated or contracted in different parts of his body. Sweating increases, to cool him down. Saliva dries up, the pupils dilate, and many, many hormones are secreted into his bloodstream. Because he's got to cope with this situation. He's going to need a terrific amount of energy, and he's going to need it quickly, because he's got to deal with this very dangerous situation that he finds himself in. Unfortunately we don't meet many mammoths, but
[speaker001:] Speak for yourself! [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Imagine then you're out, you're in Wolverhampton, and you're about to cross the street, and round the corner comes a big lorry. What happens? Your sense organs have told you there's a big lorry. You've got to deal with it, you can't fight it. You've got to get across that road quickly. All those things happen to you, all those hormones, particularly adrenaline have got into your bloodstream because you need this sudden burst of energy to get you across the road. And that's right, and that's good and that's what you want. That's what you're aiming for, and you cope with the situation.
[speaker001:] What about, the ones where, the situation is say about the people freezing, and they do nothing?
[speaker002:] Well isn't that much sort of er, lorry. We'll come back on to that later on, because it, it, it, if this is what happens with you, because what's happening there is, you're not using the adrenaline, and we will, we're moving on to that where you don't use up the adrenalin. Yes, that's what happens. But you see, that's still going to happen isn't it? [takes a deep breath], Somebody goes, I, you know, I can't cope with the situation, you might be, I've got to stay here, I've got to stay here. But then you've not used it up, and so there's certain things that are now going to happen. And they can be, which is what we're going to move on to. Because when you do run across the road, you get to the other side, and you're thinking, good gracious, that was a close shave, I'll have to sit down for a minute, I think I'll have a cup of coffee or something. That was, really close that one was. O K then that's right, you go and sit down, get yourself together again, and get back to being able to cope with life. Now supposing it isn't you that crossing the road, but you're out with a young child. You're on one side of the road, and the child's on the other. And the child runs across the road in front of the lorry. What do you do when he gets there to you?
[speaker001:] You shout at him.
[speaker002:] You shout don't you. You sh, probably shake him. You just can't believe it, you know, you're sort of like this aren't you. Because all that happened to you, but you couldn't use up your energy, you couldn't help that child across the road, and suddenly you've got to get rid of all that, and you take it out on the child. How dare you do thing like that, you know, you're sort of, you, you just can't, you're almost beside yourself, as you're trying to use up all that adrenaline, all that energy that's poured into your body as you try to help that child across the road, knowing in actual fact you can't. And again, although it's not very pleasant for the child, because he's had this terrible fright crossing the road, then he's got this adult sort of, you know, looming over them and going mad as well. It, it helps you to use up this adrenaline, and that's what you want. Think of people that go to these dangerous sports clubs, what happens to them? They expect you to leap off you know, on bits of elastic? [clears throat] They're, they're suffering from this because they want to, they enjoy it. They get this great high. It's said to last for days even this great high that they get when they jump off [clears throat] and leap off these bridges or something on a bit of elastic. I've never tried it, and I've no intention of trying it. But it, think of things like that, because they, they've got to the stage where they can actually enjoy that. But, in our everyday life it isn't like that is it?... If we look at this chart here, this is you coming along here, you're just walking along quite happily, and you go to cross the road. This is when the lorry comes round the corner, and immediately you've got to respond. You get all this energy, cross the road, and then you go and have your cup of coffee and go and sit down, and gather yourself back together again. Build up your reserves, and you're back on the ne, level there. [clears throat] If I give you another example of that. Some years ago, er, my husband was on his way to work and he was involved in a car crash. It just so happened that he, you know, he was alright, and the car was a right-off. And somebody was following, a colleague was following, saw it happen, stopped and helped him sort of do what you've got to do to get the man's address and this sort of thing, make sure the car was alright, and took him into the office. That was first thing in the morning, at two o'clock he had to be brought home. There was nothing wrong with him, but he couldn't keep his eyes open. He was just falling asleep on his feet. Because of course he'd used up all his energies, everything in dealing with this, he was completely drained. Came home, went to bed, slept right through to the next morning, and then you wouldn't know that anything had happened to him. So that's quite normal, quite happy if you're body's coping well with that, that's what you'd expect. That's good, you're using up all the adrenaline, it's not remaining in your bloodstream. Fine. But you see life isn't like that, not everyday life.... O K. [clears throat]... This is one of those days. And you set out in the morning and you know this road, you know this road well. You travelled along it yesterday, there was nothing wrong with this road yesterday. But on one of these days, and you hit the road there's been an accident, somebody's dug the road up, there's something wrong and you're in a traffic jam. It's a day when you want to get in early. So there you are, you're stuck now in this traffic jam, and you know you're going to be late. They're waiting for you when you get to work, and you can't get on with whatever you want to do, you have interruption after interruption. [whispering] I'm never going to get this work done, I'm never going to get my act together today [] You know, as, as people say, it's one of those days. And then you think, right I'm really going to get settled down to something. I'll have this cup of coffee and I'm going to get on with it, and what happens? On these days, you're sort of, you're coordination goes as well doesn't it, and you knock the coffee flying, always over the company report. It never goes over something that's worthless does it? So you just get worse and worse and worse on these days. And then in the afternoon, there'll be some problem with the staff. They all come to you, will you sort out this, will you sort out that and the other, and you think, for goodness sake, can't I get something done here. You know, so all the time you're up here, like this, and then perhaps you stay to try and get some work finished before you go home, and as sure as fate, that's the day when you promised to take somebody out, when you go home, and you've forgotten about it. So you get in, and you walk in to a row. Know the situation? It's a bad day. When you get home, you say, I'm just sick of this day, I'm going to bed. But do you sleep? You're not in the mood to sleep are you? Either that or you run yourself around ragged, and you go to sleep and then we get to one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning, and you wake up, and then what do you do? You start to think, well of course, had I done so-and-so yesterday, had I done, and I've missed on so- and-so, so you sort of, review the day for a couple of hours, and then it gets to about four o'clock and now you're thinking, Oh my God, I'm at the accountants the next day, I'll be so tired, I'll be you know, and it's too late to do anything about it now, so now you're having a bad day the next day as well because you've got yourself all stewed up about that. So this is what's happening, and we said the people that don't use up the adrenaline, the ones who decide to freeze and sort of try and cope with it, this is what's happening. All the adrenaline is now remaining in your system with all these other hormones, and this is what's causing the illnesses and the problems.... What do you do about it?... Well first of all, what can you do about being stuck in a traffic jam?
[speaker001:] Not a lot.
[speaker002:] Nothing, absolutely nothing, so instead of thinking oh, what am I going to do about this, and can I get round here, if I turn round here, can I get round these bends or something, no I can't, it'll all be sort of, no. Nothing. What a wonderful gift. Somebody's given you ten minutes. How nice of them. Somebody up above as said, I'll give that person ten minutes sitting in his car. Take them, turn the radio on, because there's nothing you can do. O K accept it, because the only person that's suffering is you. They will cope, they will cope these people... Nothing, absolutely nothing, so instead sit here and accept it, because I'm going to survive these days. m, Mr ek for the Chief Constable to go isn't
[speaker001:] ...
[speaker002:] Now of course it'll come as no surprise to you to use up all your yeses. [clears throat]...
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I suppose so. What's the problem here?...
[speaker002:] Right these two men decided in the end there was a correlation between this, and they were able to put people into two categories. If you've got fifteen and above you're t
[speaker001:] I've seen I've got one, there all noes.
[speaker002:] Er, these are the A's,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] I'm sorry to say these are the A's, I don't think there are any fifteen no's here. [clears throat]
[speaker001:] What's an A one for?
[speaker002:] Just, you're just known as an A one, I'll explain what it means in a minute.
[speaker001:] A nervous wreak. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] If you will, yes, this is it, yes [] Erm, between ten and up to fifteen, you're an A two,... and five to ten, you're a B one, and below five is a B two, and I shouldn't think there's a single B two in the room. I have not had a B two here yet. If you are a B, I should ask somebody to do this test for you, because usually the people on these courses are A's, quite a lot of them are A one. And I can't decide whether it's, you're A types and you go into construction, or you're in construction and it makes you into A types. But I'm sure there's got to be something there, because it's amazing, most people are A types, and quite a lot are A one. Now then these people are the people, the A types of people who are going to suffer these stress related illness. This is why we're actually thinking about it. These are the types of illnesses that you're likely to suffer from. We'll start off on a real low now won't we? [LAUGHTER] Yes []. I need you to read the illnesses that you are going to be prone to.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] gosh, you're going to be some [LAUGHTER] I'm going home straight away, [LAUGHTER] I won't say when to do it, will I? You've got the bottom one? It's a crap report. What's hypertension? High blood pressure.
[speaker002:] Hypertension, when you are, you know somebody that gets very sort of strung out by things, and you, then you sort of, you. The slightest thing sends you off, you know. Very sort of that's it yes. You know, if somebody says something to you, aargh, you blow up, and you know. Somebody looks at you in the wrong way some morning, you know, what's the matter with you, that type of thing you know. Some people are like that all the time. Right so is there a necessity to do something about it if you're an A type? Let me give you some other examples in case you feel there is some doubt because of course it's one test. It's not the only thing you need to do, there are some other things that I can say to you now that you might recognise. Let me give you some examples of A type behaviour which you might recognise in yourself or in other people that work with you. [clears throat] A type people are usually excessively hard driving and busy, bit of a lout, always doing something, A types. They're ambitious and they strive for upward social mobility. It's important to them because it proves where they are in life, they don't want to stay like where their parents were, they want to prove. They're very aware of time, they have an enhanced sense of time urgency, these are the people that never have enough hours in the day. Oh gosh, I wish there was forty eight hours in every day, and there were ten days in every week, and it's still no good, with forty eight hours, they'd still find enough to do, they'd still be racing around all the time. They're very competitive,. You're often seen as being aggressive and impatient, but you believe that your pattern of behaviour is responsible for the success that you've had. This is the way to do it. Now how did you get to be like it? Well of course, in our society we like people to be like this don't we? This is what we want.
[speaker001:] [clears throat] victims of our
[speaker002:] We have, but really, well they're alright, you know, in their little hut with their tray or something like that. Yes, maybe
[speaker001:] Still got to have them, we've still got to have them
[speaker002:] We have got to have them, but really the people we want to push the country on, you know because people have got to get us somewhere, these are the A types aren't they? These are what we want to do, you know, work hard and they do this sort of thing. See this is what we, we know we want them, but the ones that we really sort of look up to and reward are the ones that show these other types of behaviour.
[speaker001:] Do you need more A's than B's?
[speaker002:] You need a balance [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] You probably need a lot more B's doing most of work, and the A's are buzzing around.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well we come round to what happens in a moment to As and Bs []. What happens is of course, you're so, very often socialised into behaving like this, ask yourself if your an A type, are your parents A types?... And what happens if you're an A type when you have children? Send these children off to school, they go to school, this is your opportunity in life, and you work hard. You're what we want, you work hard at school, and the child comes back and they say, had a test today, how did you get on? I got eighteen out of twenty. What did the others get? Was it an easy test? And how is that this child got eighteen? You know, because this, were they slacking in some way, why didn't they get twenty? What's the matter here? You see, and you keep, and they work hard. It's what I expect for you to be able to work, really hard, get your homework done, work hard in your exams, I expect you to go to college. You know, I want you to have the chances that I didn't have. All these things, pushing this child on. And in the end the child's internalising, I'm loved because I work hard, and this is what I have to do. If you work hard, you gain people's love and respect.
[speaker001:] Rise to the top.
[speaker002:] You do yes, of course, well yes. All these sort of things to make them work, as in you set out a pattern of behaviour. And that's what matters to make them work like they are. And if you've got A type parents you copy them, you do what they've done, they've worked hard, that is what to respect is. And this is how you've got to where you are.... You're prepared to work longer hours, to get the work done. You say to an A type, sorry I say you've got to work most of the night to get this done, they'll moan but they'll do it, B types turn round and say, no way. The A types will do it. The, they sort of have less sleep. If you want something done in a club, a voluntary club and things like that, go to your A types. They'll find the time. The people that do the most will always find time to do more, the B types, well can't you fit that in, you know. But the A types, somehow, yes, I'll do it. Unfortunately it's said you communicate less with your wives, I don't know if it's exactly true, but if somebody says to you, you never talk to me, you don't tell me anything, that's your A type behaviour. You go b, you can go back and say now, well it is my A type behaviour that's causing this you see, and see if that gets you anywhere.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's because you're always working and you don't have a chance.
[speaker002:] That's right, yes, because you see that's the other thing, that I've got on here.
[speaker001:] Stressed when you get up.
[speaker002:] Work is more important than socialising to A types, so if you've got to make a choice between the two, it's the work. That's what you choose to do, if there's a choice, sorry, you know, I can't have this weekend away, I've actually got to do this job that I said, you know, a load of work or something. I don't know, we can't go to the cinema tonight because I've got to do this work I've brought home.
[speaker001:] That's not a B type.
[speaker002:] That's it, because you're an A type. Whereas the B type
[speaker001:] I know which is more important [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] See this is it, straight down the line, yes, this is it, I won't ask you how many you've got, but I did see, notice the ticks [] Yes, this, this is it. And you, A types cannot see it in any other way.
[speaker001:] You're almost better to be in a job first, get a few offers.
[speaker002:] Yes, that's it, yes, yes. That's exactly how A types see it. Yes, I have to tell you, you're a temporary one. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Is there any chance of being an A type [clears throat] excuse me, between eight and six, and, and a B type thereafter?
[speaker002:] No, except, because your personality it's your personality [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] I'm not so sure, I'm not so sure
[speaker002:] Well let's look at the B types. The B types have the ability to take a longer view of things. They'll stand back, oh, you know, the laid-back type, oh does it really matter. Oh, you know. Hey, go an get you know, get life and death. This is the B type. They're too like that you see. They don't expect things to be done perfectly. A types are often perfectionists. There's only one way to do a job, and that's the way I do it, and that's perfect. If I ask somebody to do something, that's why, the way I want it done. No oth, no other way to do it. You see, whereas B types would say, no, I can see that what you've done is acceptable and that's alright. And A types can't take this, and find it very difficult. You need to ask yourself, if you are an A type, and a perfectionist, what is the acceptable standard?... Are you working to perfection within your job? Are these jobs, that you are doing for your client absolutely perfect? No they can't afford it can they?
[speaker001:] , It can't be done, it can't be done
[speaker002:] No, no, so what you do, you agree an acceptable standard. And this is what you've got to do with most things that you do. Now I accept that if you're adding up a column of figures you can't say well it's within a few thousand well that'll do. That's near enough. There are some things that do have to be done to a certain standard. But most things do not have to be done to perfection. And B types can take that on board, and they. A types often find that quite difficult. B types aren't concerned about time. Time doesn't worry them in nearly the same way. You get these, sort of these painters you know saying, beautiful picture, how long did it take you to paint that? Oh, a hundred hours, a hundred and fifty hours. You see I couldn't spend a hundred hours on a painting and only ask that amount of money. You know, you say how much am I worth an hour, yes. A pound an hour, good gracious, I couldn't be working like that. You see, because they just look at it in a completely different way. [clears throat]. I mean it's very much again the way they've been brought up, because they don't feel that they've got to earn respect and love. Their parents are the ones who send them off to school and say, just do your best. We don't ask any more of you, just do your best. And they come back and they say, I had a test today, I got five out of twenty. But you did your best didn't you son? You tried, that's alright, that's what we want. We can't ask any more than that of you. Yes, that's how the child grows up, because they did their best. You put the two together of course, and it's going to be very difficult for A's and B's together. They will drive each other mad. Because they just see things in a completely different way. But we do need some B types. [clears throat]. What we do know is, of course, that if the A types continue as they are, they will be ill. There are certain things that they need to do, to learn to modify their behaviour. And you can modify your behaviour because you've got to try.... You know nobody was really concerned about stress before I started. didn't figure, didn't figure did it?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] No, no-one
[speaker002:] No, no, I noticed this programme ages ago.
[speaker001:] I'll give you that, I'll give you that, you know, when you go home, you should have known that.
[speaker002:] I wonder why, I wonder why you get that when you go home, there must be certain signs. Right some things that you can do then if you're an A type.... Find some t, time in each day when you are idle, don't structure every single part of the twenty four hours, some time when you're going to sort of be, do nothing. We talk later on, sort of thing when I say do nothing, you're going to do something in that bit, but as far as you're concerned it's idle time. It's quite a good thing as well for A type people, is to read, read books. Because you say, no, I watch television to relax. I very much doubt it. You watch television, you can watch television with a, you know, quarter of your mind, can't you? You wa, if you think of those soaps, I bet, I'm convinced you could miss six weeks of the soaps and still not lose a minute of the plot. Probably yes, but what's really happening is, you're watching television and half your mind is taking it in, and the other half of your mind's thinking, when I get back to work tomorrow, I'm going to do so-and-so and so-and-so, because, yes, I'll do, and you're really chewing over the problems of today. So you're not really concentrating on the television, because you don't have to. I mean do you really care when you look at these game shows, and things like that, whether this person wins a car or a holiday, you know in wherever? Do you care? Of course you don't care. I mean, you know, you just, it's there isn't it, animated wallpaper.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] You're just watching it, you see because it's on. You're not, it's not really relaxing you. But if you read a book, you've got to concentrate otherwise you're not going to follow the plot. You won't follow what's going on. This is why they say read. Do whatever you like, I'm not saying go out and buy War and Peace, because you know, if you don't, if you're not into the habit of reading, you pick up War and Peace, and by the time you get through the first page, you say who are all these people? Tolstoy litters them, you know, they've got thousands of people all with different names, so don't buy something that, you know, you don't really want to read. It doesn't matter, read Mills and Boon if you want to, I mean who cares. Barbara Cartland, you know, who really cares, so long as you're sort of thinking right, I've got to concentrate on this, because you know, have this different way of going about things. Right, try and see your life as work and non-work. Not just merging in together. This is work, this is non-work time.... Some of your stress may be caused by problems at home, particularly if say you've got teenagers. I can't think of anything worse. So if you've got teenagers, sometimes you've kindly got to say to them, look just go away, I want to be quiet, sitting reading my book or whatever. And ha, you know, ban them from the room that you're sitting in. Give yourself, you know, somewhere where you can sit quietly, and also give children the same opportunity, even quite small children need to be on their own sometimes. Some time in the day they need to be sitting quietly on their own. It's not the same situation obviously, so you have somewhere where you can be quiet on your own, reading a book, or whatever you're going to do, not idle, but. Know what your stress points are. Your body will tell you when it's had enough. One of the best ways of knowing, think if you have taken work home sometimes and you get to about ten, half past ten, and suddenly you think, God I've got a headache, or my neck hurts, my shoulders ache, those sorts of things. This is your body saying, er, I've had enough, I've had enough, I want, I want to change. Don't work through them. Yo, that's wrong. You say, O K, this is it, put it all away, because I've got to cope, I've got to survive in this life, so know what your stress points are and act on them.... Don't structure all your leisure types, your leisure time. You know the A types, they go on holiday, Monday, went and looked at so- and-so, Tuesday we did so-and-so, Wednesday we did, Thursday was really boring. Do you know, we sat on that beach all day Thursday, it was really boring, there was nothing to do on Thursday. But you need some of this time when there's nothing to do, and, you don't know what might happen. I mean today, the house, don't structure every bit of your leisure time. Allow things to happen.
[speaker001:] I find that more stressful. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] This how you over everything... Well there's something in the background that you might do []
[speaker001:] What's
[speaker002:] Er, Erm, another thing you might do, you might take up a hobby that you've got to think about. Something that's going to take your attention, because while you're thinking about your hobby you can't be thinking about work. Whatever it might be that interests you, but something that you've got to be thinking about, in your share time. Er, it can be a sport it can be some sort of activity, it could be going to evening classes, learning something. Whatever it might be for you, but something that you're going to have to be thinking about, and while you're thinking about that you cannot be thinking about work. This is the idea, this is, it's going to help you break up things into work and non-work.
[speaker001:] There's also a lot of stress in hobbies, sport, because you're, you're sort of challenged, you want to win something, or, even your hobby, you want to get something right.
[speaker002:] That isn't necessarily a bad thing. What we're saying here is you, you breaking the two away.
[speaker001:] It's different.
[speaker002:] It's different yes, you, you're breaking work and non-work because otherwise you break up, it becomes twenty four hours work. You see, you might say, well my hobby is gardening. You know, I, I maintain if you're gardening you're thinking about work, or you're not thinking about watering or whatever you should be doing in gardening. You can still be thinking about work.
[speaker001:] Yes, and then you, and then you cut off your favourite plant in the garden.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Probably yes, but you see but if, if []
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] For example, er, if for example, you were doing something, I don't know, say you s, said erm, I'm definitely going to go and learn another language, I'm going to go and learn German, let's say. So you go off to this evening class, while you're doing that, you can't be thinking about the problems at work, because you've got to concentrate otherwise you're not going to get it done. Or you might go to a sports club and meet some colleagues, or some friends there, and while you're training together you're talking, about other things, you see and again, you can't be, you're not thinking about work. This is the whole idea. Yes there is a certain amount of stress in competition, but it's er, in a different way. Yo, you're challenging all your efforts into a different way. Er, do one thing at a time, these A types who juggle all these different jobs, still can't get them all done. Yes, I'm very clever at doing all this. One thing at a time.... And seek to manage your time before other people do. You be in charge as much as possible of your time, and whatever it is you're going to do.... Now you might think well, what about all these people at the top then. All these A types that must be you know, top of industry in our society. Well another survey was done to look at these people at the top and see how they're coping, and a big surprise. They're not A types, and they don't know why. And they've come up with several suggestions. Either the A types are too busy doing other things, the wrong things, and they don't rise to the top, you know, you can't see the wood for the trees. That type of thing, or they were A types and they learned to modify their behaviour, and survived or the A types are dead before they get to the top.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's the way.
[speaker002:] Giving the B's the stuff to get there. I'll leave you to choose which one you fancy.
[speaker001:] In the higher, the higher up you go, you delegate it.
[speaker002:] Yes, yes, but you, it's in a different frame of mind isn't it? And whereas you can see if you might have A type behaviour sort of lower down,, you think if you really want to rise, you're going to have to cope. So you modify your behaviour, delegate, see, take a longer term view of things. A fair bit of [clears throat] A fair bit of socialising comes in, things like that. So you, you've got to think about those, because if you want to survive, and you also want to go on.
[speaker001:] What was the second choice
[speaker002:] B, the m, they learn to modify their behaviour.... Er, we need to also think about erm, er, B types, because B types may not be being assertive, and I shall talk about assertive behaviour in a few moments. They, they may sort of be very submissive, B types, and therefore they can be stressed in a different way. So I'll, I'll talk about that in a moment. [clears throat] Right so what causes you to be distressed, stressed? Who or what causes you to be stressed?... Eighty to ninety percent of stress is self-imposed....
[speaker001:] Is it stress or frustration?
[speaker002:] No it's stress because it's your, it's the way you perceive things. Because you can tell, you can have two people in a situation, one copes really well, sails through it, but the other gets really stressed, and goes down hill, and can't cope. It's to do with their personality, their perception of the event, their upbringing, their beliefs all sorts of things like that. But it is, you have to accept, you can't blame the boss, the circumstances you're in, and things like that, it is the way you react to it. This is what's causing stress.
[speaker001:] I thought companies were ensuring that you wouldn't take that on, that stress. It appears that more or less the company would do it.
[speaker002:] I would think it would, yes, I would think it would be people, more and more people are coming round today with the idea that people need to go away, send somebody to get something. Erm, B P for example, have gone in for what they call erm, a culture change. It's taken them two years. It's very, very, it's very, very difficult to change cultures in organisations, extremely difficult. They decided to take it on board, and as part of their culture change, they will not have people working beyond a certain time at night. And the manager goes round and switches out the lights, if there's anybody there they kick them out. Because the maintain that you need to le, a certain amount of time away from work to be able to cope with the situation that you're in, and you're, you're not going to be at your best at the time when they want you there. So I w, I haven't heard what they've said about holidays, but I would say they ought to say to people, if, if you know, if your allocated six weeks holiday, you take that six weeks holiday. Because you'll say to people, did you take all your holiday last year. And they'll say, well no I didn't manage to last week in or something. They've decided that you need that number of weeks holiday, then that's what you should be taking. And I think you'll soon find that more companies are coming round to thinking about this now, as, it is becoming more difficult and more challenging if you like, in working in the company. And people have got to be able to cope with the challenges. It, it certainly stress has become, is being taken more seriously, by some companies. Put it like that. Other companies prefer, you know, they've got to be able to cope, but you, you, you know, you read various things that are said, and some companies are taking it much, much more seriously, and they're realising the problems right the way down, right through the whole company that stress is causing, and trying to save money. It's the object at the end of the day, isn't it? I mean they are concerned about their employees, they are. But at the end of the day, they're more concerned about the money.
[speaker001:] The problem is, the problem is though, half the time you put into a situation, where, I, I, I was due er, a week's holiday, and two weeks previous to that, I was actually changed contract so I was there on this new contract, and in a fortnight I was going to take a holiday, and sort of, well I can't stop you from taking your holiday, but you know, it's, that sort of problem isn't it. Because, I mean, I, I've, I've got three weeks holiday owing to me from last year.
[speaker002:] Yes, I know, md, yes, Oh, I can believe it yes, yes.
[speaker001:] It's an attitude as well, from your immediate superior as well. If they're used to working long hours, they expect that off you.
[speaker002:] You hear these people say I don't ask anything of my staff that I'm not prepared to do myself, then you find something like a ninety hour week or something. You know, it, it is a definite problem. Yes, I can see that, yes. Yes, you, you've got to keep agitating for this holiday. You've got to survive at the end of the day. Do you know, if you're ill then what's going to happen? They've got to cope then haven't they?
[speaker001:] That's different though isn't it? [LAUGHTER] A perfect manager!
[speaker002:] I like it.
[speaker001:] Personnel?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I like it, Yes, Right well []
[speaker001:] Is it any different if you [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Right,th, thinking about things then that do stress you. Now there are lots of things that can cause you to be stressed, and I mean, I'm talking about a lot here. And we're going to go through them, you don't necessarily need to write them all down because there is such a lot, but, because they're all sort of shown individually here. Now, in your environment then, there are lots of things that cou [clears throat] could cause you to be stressed, depending on the type of person that you are. So let's look and see what they are.... Things that I mentioned yesterday, you need to be able to er, manage effectively all these things like temperature, the noise level around you. The, the older you get, the more sort of find, that you like to work in a quiet environment. If you've got teenagers, they can't do their homework unless they've got the ra, the television on and the er, the Walkman at the same time. And you say, how can you concentrate? What, what you know. They're still trying to do their homework. I can't work without that actually going on around me sort of thing. Er, lighting, again, you get much more concerned, as you go on, we get much more concerned about these things don't we? The, the, the young cope. Er, office decor we find actually makes a big difference to people. Some tests done in wasn't there, in one of those prisons, and I think they tried with very violent, very aggressive er, prisoners there, and it, they eventually found that the colours that calmed them down most of all was pink. So if you're [LAUGHTER] if you find you have some very violent [] and aggressive people working for you, put them in a pink room to have their sandwiches, so.
[speaker001:] Give them pink butties.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] There you are yes, [] Even the open door policy can be very stressful for some people. Some people like it and thrive on it, others find it very, very difficult to live with. But, so those are what we call environmental stresses. These are the things that can cause you to be stressed in your environment. But you might say no, it's fine I can live with all those. You know, I'm easy going and I can cope with that, and get on and do the job with whatever it is that's got to be done.
[speaker001:] Is there one colour that might do, er what best person
[speaker002:] Blue, blue is seen as being very cold. Y, you, you h, you want, you've got to go for neutral colours, that's going to sort of stress the less number of people haven't you? You wouldn't sort of erm, if you think of Fay er,
[speaker001:] What are the what is it that
[speaker002:] I don't know, I don't know, er, I, I, I'm not really up into this, but for example, the reason that McDonald's uses red, is because it's part of their culture of being classed in an so if you used green. Pizzaland use green, because they want it as a more relaxed atmosphere, I mean there's a lot in colour psychology, and I, I'm not into it. But er, if you, if you really wanted to find out there is quite a lot in colour psychology. Oh yes, even, yes, even things like that yes. But of course we've got to be a bit careful, because the Americans are going, sort of the other way now, that people can't wear perfume and deodorant, that, that smell and things like that, can they, because it's now seen as being equally as difficult as people who smoke. So you, you've got to be careful which road you go along, oh, yes, haven't you heard this in America?