[speaker001:] Hello! I'm David Johnston and you can give me a call right now on. [music]
[David:] Good Morning. You're listening to Dial David Johnston on Max A M. At long last, perhaps, the next tale of Edinburgh's Premiere League football grounds may be about to move on. According today's Scotland on Sunday Newspaper, Hearts and it's Chairman Wallace Mercer are coming round to the idea of sharing a ground with Hibs on the site the council wants, at Ingleston. As the negotiations grind on, and on, time is passing quickly towards the deadline set for Premiere League grounds to implement the Taylor Report improvements. Hibs reaction to the proposals is still far from clear, but, with a new report out from the council soon the time is coming for decisions to be taken. This one seems to have been going on for far too long! How about Ingleston? It was the outsider when ground share was first muted, but a super-league home for Edinburgh football in the west of the city, handy for the motorways and the bypass might make sense, might it not? 's the number to dial. The Scottish Office will issue a consultation paper on the future of local government next week... with Mr Major branding regions like Strathclyde monstrosities at the Tory conference, it's perhaps clear the way they're thinking. The government want to replace the complexities of the present arrangements with single tiered councils, that's to say one authority providing all the local services. Few enough people at the moment know which council does what. In Edinburgh the corporation's blamed for everything, despite the fact it ceased to exist nearly twenty years ago! And the region and district split services between them. Do you think your local council does any good? Do you want to keep it er, keep Lothian or Fife regions? Or do you not see any point in keeping them at all? is the number to dial. We'll be going to the telephone lines in a moment or two to talk about these subjects, or anything else you wish to raise this Sunday morning. First, a break. [music with interruption for radio commercials] You're listening to Dial David Johnston, Max A M. Eyes down, look in! Here we go again. The first call of the day Mr from West Caulder Good morning!
[speaker003:] Good morning Mr Johnston. I'd like to talk about Scottish Homes open space maintenance charters... i.e., grass cutting etcetera.
[David:] Right.
[speaker003:] Now, each householder or tenant in a Scottish Homes estate in West Lothian has to pay for this service as well their poll tax. I dare say you've heard of that? But
[David:] Tha, that's because the ta, the the estates are, are owned by Scottish Homes and the, the poll tax obviously goes towards the
[speaker003:] Yes.
[David:] the councils then.
[speaker003:] Right. Now, in West Caulder th the charge erm amounted this year to forty pound, that's for nineteen ninety one cos they're always a year behind.
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] Now, the actual cost of grass cutting amounts to seventy pound forty five... erm, various remedial work which they um specify comes to eleven pound seventy. But, to crown it all, they have a administration of four pound thirty seven er, all of these plus VAT. Now, and these
[David:] What what, the four pounds thirty seven's to administer sending out the bill for you?
[speaker003:] Yes. So, there are a hundred ninety two houses in this particular estate... erm, which makes a total of eight hundred and forty pound just for sending a bill!
[David:] Right.
[speaker003:] Now, incorporated in these charges there's a litter collection, so if litter is dumped on District Council ground, but they won't it at the Scottish Homes land, then the owner have to pay for this service. And this was clearly stated, I, a Scottish Homes repre, representatives had a meeting, er, in West Caulder recently and they stated this ridiculous state of affairs!
[David:] Right. So so wha, what what you're saying is, it's all just... nonsense? Or or you don't mind paying some of it, or or what?
[speaker003:] I don't want to pay any at all. I mean, the District Council have taken over Scottish Homes, they've been passed to them, in Falkirk and Mid-Lothian recently.
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] And I believe er, at this meeting it was revealed that Scottish Homes had received a tender from the West Lothian District Council for this work over a period of ten years for a figure which comes to four hundred thousand pound... which, apparently, was the cheapest tender! But Scottish Homes have given this job to Scottish land on a yearly basis.
[David:] Right.
[speaker003:] So I mean, this is a ridiculous state of affairs! Why sho why should we have to pay for this service... as well as our poll tax?
[David:] Okay. Well thank, thanks for your call Mr, I dare say that er, other people in a, in a similar position may er, may want to er, take you up on that. Next, Mr from
[speaker004:] Portobello good morning. Good morning Mr Johnston! It's about the football ground at Ingleston.
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] Erm, I don't think it'll ever take off actu, actually, because er... you've got all the traffic all there already... and if you've got say, say you have got Hibs and Hearts... you got all the traffic going out there at the same time... and it's gonna be chock-a-block!
[David:] But I mean, Ingleston's well used to handling the Highland Show and er ba, and er, you know, the the existing airport traffic er, and so on.
[speaker004:] Yes, but also, what about a night time game? You're gonna have the flood lights on, right beside a na, and international airport? Er, it could be o off-putting for the... for the planes.
[David:] Right. But I, but I mean, basically, the the er, the objections you raised to it there are are are planning objections which presumably the councils thought about when they advocated... Ingleston as as the home for a new stadium.
[speaker004:] Well, I'd just like to think that maybe we have thought about it, you know. I would, I would like to really think that. Because, look at, I'm not, you know, I'm not er... gonna even talk about the disaster at airport things, you know, the taking off and landing, if you've got a stadium nearby with a lot of people in it, and one of these disasters happened to happen, I know we're not looking for that, but if it does, you're gonna have a stadium full of people... if a plane comes down, well, you know. [LAUGHTER]
[David:] Right.
[speaker004:] I say, a plane could come down anywhere right.
[David:] Are you a football fan yourself?
[speaker004:] Yes.
[David:] Er th, which team do you support?
[speaker004:] I support the one at er, the east end.
[David:] Right. So so it
[speaker004:] Hibernian
[David:] o on on footballing principles rather than planning principles would you have any objection... to
[speaker004:] Er
[David:] to going to Ingleston? I mean,th this, you know, they said the
[speaker004:] I wou, I don't fancy Ingleston at all! I would rather stay in Leith I'm afraid... but...
[David:] and if you can't stay in the east, you want to stay in the east of the city?
[speaker004:] Yeah, I would like to stay Leith, that's where all the football fans are that support Hibernian.
[David:] Right.
[speaker004:] Er if my choice, I'd like to be in the docks, but... things cannot ha... happen that way, we've got a lot o, a lot of the yuppies moving in that area, and that seems to be taking over that area so... no chance of a football stadium there. Things do have to move on. The outside of the town seems to be the best idea. Erm, you know, the old American way where you can take your family, park in a car park, have a picnic, go to the game sort of thing. That
[David:] Mm.
[speaker004:] seems to be the thing they're all looking for. Erm, as I say, you know, I... Straiton's not to far away, it's still far enough. Er,a as I say, Leith Leith
[David:] It's stra, Straiton's stretching your loyalty as far as it'll go.
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[David:] Is that, is that far enough?
[speaker004:] Pardon?
[David:] Is that far enough?
[speaker004:] What was that again?
[David:] Sa Straiton would stretch your loyalty as far as it would go geographically?
[speaker004:] Yes, I wo I I would, I would go for that, I'm afraid. But, as I say, Leith is in the preference, and it's a preference for a lot of football fans.
[David:] Okay. Thanks very much indeed for that. Next is the, the Hearts chairman, Wallace Mercer, good morning.
[speaker005:] Morning David. David, I just wanted to say that there's an article in one of er, the newspapers this morning which really is a di distortion of the current Heart's board's position and I just wanted to
[David:] Well that's that's really what I, I started the programme off
[speaker005:] Right.
[David:] with.
[speaker005:] I didn't realise that.
[David:] The er, the Scotland on Sunday piece
[speaker005:] Right.
[David:] suggesting tha that you're warming to the idea
[speaker005:] No.
[David:] of moving
[speaker005:] No.
[David:] to Inglestone.
[speaker005:] Can I just quite clearly put on record, and it's a unanimous decision of the board, we wrote to Edinburgh District a few weeks ago, we've told them that we will use our best endeavours David, to prosecute the application at Hammerston If we get planning consent and we... decide that we can't afford a new stadium in total, because of the economic situation, we are aggressively re-looking at the redevelopment of Tynecastle. Only in i i in in exceptional circumstances, and I do mean absolutely exceptional circumstances, would we even consider going to Ingleston! We've already written Lothian region this week worried about the safety aspect. We don't want to be cajoled into an arrangement at Ingleston, which is just a political convenience. And Hearts
[David:] A political convenience for who? For the politicians? For the council?
[speaker005:] Well I,i we feel as a club, sometimes, that our position is being manipulated and distorted. I mean, I'm furious, again, in the newspaper this morning they were having a go at Convenor Milligan! All he has been trying to do is to trying to ensure that there's been even-handed play here... on all the stadium sites and it's disgraceful that his name has been dragged into this! Hearts will either be at Hermestone or Tynecastle. Ingleston, if we were offered a King's ransom, we might have to sit down and think about it, but it is very much a long, long shot!
[David:] But surely the problem is that time's cracking on and you're gonna have to start thinking about the Taylor Report recommendations. Well
[speaker005:] Well
[David:] I'm sure you are already thinking about the
[speaker005:] we've already written, we've already written last week to the Scottish office, we've written to our member of parliament and we've asked him to see if we can get a delay on the date because we've taken three years to try and get planning consent. But what I want the Hearts Mid-Lothian supporters to know is that if we don't go to Hermestone, it is highly likely we'll be remaining at Tynecastle, and we could put together a very attractive proposal there.
[David:] So, so, when do you, as far as your concerned is this going to be sorted out? I mean, if if if the council
[speaker005:] We, as the board will ha, be making a decision, David, within the next two months. We did a confidential letter to Edinburgh District a month ago telling them that. There's no way we can even consider Ingleston just now, when we're involved at Hermestone and re-looking at Tynecastle.
[David:] So, so if the, if the region come back to you and knock back Hermestone, er would you appeal? Or would you just say, well that's it let's press again with Tynecastle?
[speaker005:] Well we'll have to consider that along with land Messrs, cos we think it's a brilliant site with good road access... and we want to work very hard with the people that put the deal together. But, Tynecastle is very much a, a second option, that we're really quite keen on now.
[David:] But wa, but surely an honest broker deal er... involving Hibs and the district council di at Ingleston must be an attractive proposition for
[speaker005:] Well
[David:] football fans?
[speaker005:] well David I can't speak on behalf of Hibs, all I can say
[David:] Mm.
[speaker005:] is that Tom Farmer and also the Hib's board seem to on, on on, numerous occasions say they've no interest in Ingleston, and they want to go ahead with Straiton. I think they should get planning consent and go ahead and develop Straiton.
[David:] But, but are, are the troubles er not, that that you and Hibs and pursuing erm financial objectives rather than footballing objectives?
[speaker005:] No. That's crass stupidity! I mean frankly David, if you look at the number of games we've had so far this season, it would be totally impractical for both teams to have played on the same pitch. It'll be physically impossible with fixtures for, with the number of fixtures we've had, it's just, er it's physically no er not not possible. The supporters have quite clearly indicated they don't want to share. It will be madness for Hearts to consider that as an option! And if we don't go to Hermestone, we'll stay at Tynecastle. That's the bottom line! Now, if Edinburgh District want to talk to us about Ingleston, and we don't want to upset them, we'll talk to them, but it would have to be an in, and enormous financial attraction for us even to consider that.
[David:] Okay. So, so, two months time we should know where we're going?
[speaker005:] I, I would hope even sooner than that.
[David:] Okay. Thanks very much indeed for you call. Eileen from Edinburgh, good morning.
[speaker006:] Yes, good morning er, Mr Johnston. Erm, I would like to talk about er, one of the articles that's in the one of the Sunday papers this morning. Erm, it's about the government squeezing the pensioners again. Erm
[David:] This suggestion that the pensions may be frozen on Thursday?
[speaker006:] Yes. Yes. Erm... there's an article in one of the papers this morning, and er it was... I think it's an absolute disgrace! Erm... I'm a home help and... [clears throat]... I go... you know, for a lot of pensions and erm... the pittance that these er... old men and women have to live on a th th, I mean I really think it's terrible! And now they're talking about freezing it! I mean, it seems to be the pensioners who come in for th the... tt... you know, the same thing all the time. And I mean, they're actually living on a pittance as it is!
[David:] So, so
[speaker006:] Erm
[David:] who who do you think, I mean,th, you know, the government's making it pretty clear at the moment, Mrs, that that er, in these troubled times something's gonna get squeezed because... there's so m, many people out of work that gi, you know, they're having to pay more unemployment benefit, there's not enough tax money coming and... and generally the government is hard up, so someone's going to get squeezed in the social security system.
[speaker006:] Yeah, but what about the unemployed?
[David:] I mean, who who do you think should get squeezed? Should it be, you know, single
[speaker006:] Well
[David:] parents or
[speaker006:] I mean, these old men
[David:] People on the dole.
[speaker006:] these old men and women, I mean, they've worked all their life and... er th th there are... I mean, there was an article last week... in one of the papers as well, and it said, you know, all, all the benefits that we get, there was thousands not, not claiming benefits that they was entitled to
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] but it's only for people who are actually on income support.
[David:] And th and then we have Mr Lilley saying that there were lots of people at the Tory Party Conference, remember, he had his little list that he was going to go through and... and erm... chop out all the, the social security scroungers and people who abused the system.
[speaker006:] Yes. But I mean, er th,th, yes. Well, why not, why not come down hard on them? I mean, why, why make it the pensioners every time? I mean,th th there's, I mean I think it's an absolute disgrace as I said, really! I mean, I think it's terrible and, and I mean, if Mr Lilley himself went into some of the houses that I go into and see the... the existence that they live, because that's all it is, you know, it's just an existence. And some, some of their fa, I mean, if they're lucky enough to have families who do help them... that, er that, that's fine, but I mean a lot of them don't have anybody at all, and they really have to pay their gas, electric, rent, poll tax, off an absolute pittance! And I think it's an absolute disgrace!
[David:] Okay. Thanks very much for that. Bu erm,th but as I say, the government were making it perfectly clear this week that... something's gonna get squeezed. I wonder if people have any er, ideas for for who could be squeezed and... not cause an outcry and not cause undue suffering and distress? Nelly from Edinburgh's next, good morning?
[speaker007:] Good morning David. How are you?
[David:] Very well thanks. Yourself?
[speaker007:] I, fine thank you. It's about the housing department.
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] Er, my friend got a house at Westerhailes Park eleven months ago... and er... it was alright at the beginning, then she started getting hassle, from the kids coming to her door asking for cigarettes... and she didn't give them them, and they were banging on her door, tapping on her windows and everything. So, it got worse and worse and
[David:] It's similar to a call we had erm... a couple of weeks ago Nelly, about about er, people being pestered with er with with children like this.
[speaker007:] Yes. A and being threatened. So erm, however
[David:] What what sort of threats?
[speaker007:] Erm
[David:] Enough to frighten her obviously?
[speaker007:] Yes. So she sitting one night, er, a week past Monday watching her television... and she had the window open a li little bit for er... air, and the next thing there's a boy half way through the window! So, of course, then she panicked. So anyway... she decided she was going out Livingston to live... with this friend of hers.
[David:] So,sa sa sa sa, well do, sorry, just don't le don't leave the boy half way through the window, what happened? She just frightened him off and he ran away sort of thing?
[speaker007:] Yeah.
[David:] Okay
[speaker007:] right off. Ha! However, so erm... she asked me if I'd go up and give her hand to... sort things out, so I was up on the Friday morning... and I said well you better phone the corporation and tell them that you're moving out on Saturday... morning. So she's phoned, and I says, ask them if they're coming to board up the windows which were boarded when she went in?
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] So, erm... she phoned
[David:] She, she got a new house in Livingston no problem?
[speaker007:] No, she got a friend... there.
[David:] Oh right. Okay.
[speaker007:] So er, she phoned the corporation and she asked the man, to, to say she was leaving on the Saturday morning... and... were they, were they gonna come and... er ba er what wi, er, bar up the windows?
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] And their, well their answer's says are they broken? She said no. Well nothing we can do! But the point is David, they are broken, now! So, they've had to get men in, to board the windows up... then if somebody else gets the house, they've got to get these men to come and take the boards down again, then they glazier has to put the window in. This, to me, is a waste of money!
[David:] Well, but I mean, we've identified a problem, even if someone was living there Nelly th er, the the person was being terrorized by children and and was having her house broken into. So
[speaker007:] Yes.
[David:] sa, so what are you saying, that the council should have been straight round to board it up?
[speaker007:] No. Because, she's moved now and she doesn't care fo, what happens now. And, and the police can do nothing David, because their hands are tied, for a simple reason, if you name a name, which I don't know any, erm... they gang up on you! Now... a as I say, I was up on there on Friday... and erm
[David:] Is this er We Westerhailes Drive you say?
[speaker007:] No, Westerhailes Park.
[David:] Westerhailes Park, I beg your pardon.
[speaker007:] I was up, and I went to the shops and I came and there's a wee boy which used to live in the flats, and he says hello Nelly. He says, can you give my friend a cigarette? I said, I've told you already son, I've stopped smoking. And the lad he was pointing to had a sling on his arm, then there was a bigger boy... and I said, I'm sorry son. So anyway, I went to open the outside door
[David:] How old were these children Nelly? Sorry to in keep interrupting.
[speaker007:] We well, the wee boy, I think, maybe about seven, the other one may be about ten, and the other one be about fifteen. And as I say, the middle one had a sling on his arm, so, as I was opening the outside door... one of them says, well if you've not got cigarettes, you better give me a tenner or I'll thump you! And I turned right round and I says, the boy with the sling said it wasn't me, I says to the big one, I said, do you want your legs in plaster? And he took off. But this is what the people are going through David! But, as I said, apart from this hassle, you've got to sort it out yourself, cos the police can do nothing! But the corporation, I think, is wasting more money... boarding up these windows... and then when people take them over again.
[David:] Do you think that's, do you think that's what what you've experienced there, do you think that's untypical or do you think that's a fairly good example of... of of life in that part of Westerhailes?
[speaker007:] I it's... well it's all over. But the point is, if you tell them you're leaving, why don't they come and board the windows up and save all this... money?
[David:] But why don't, why don't, why don't
[speaker007:] There's still gonna be the ha, there's still always gonna be the hassle.
[David:] It's pretty, it's pretty bad that, that a seven year old... if he was seven, is
[speaker007:] Yes.
[David:] is allowed to run round... victimizing, with all due respect
[speaker007:] Yes!
[David:] to you, elderly
[speaker007:] Yes!
[David:] people!
[speaker007:] Yes! Yes!
[David:] Terrorizing elderly people.
[speaker007:] David, I was
[David:] What
[speaker007:] they won't terrorize.
[David:] What? Ah, what? Sorry?
[speaker007:] Th, I won't, they won't terrorize me!
[David:] Well, not again perhaps, but
[speaker007:] No.
[David:] they certainly had a try to. But I mean,th, I won, I won
[speaker007:] Yes, aha David. And exactly!
[David:] I wonder what his parents thought
[speaker007:] Alright.
[David:] he was doing?
[speaker007:] Exactly! You see i... well you, you better give me ten pound or I'll thump you!
[David:] Yep.
[speaker007:] And of course, but the point is, if you'd a been... an ol and older person like myself, seventy two, which is... was frightened and maybe I'd... even give them, two pound, three pound... but what
[David:] That's it.
[speaker007:] for nothing!
[David:] For nothing. That's right. And whe and when sta
[speaker007:] I mean if, and if I said we'll have, if I have the policemen down, and they say they can, there nothing they can do because... we don't know their names
[David:] Ah.
[speaker007:] and even if you may name them, there'd be a gang on you!
[David:] Okay.
[speaker007:] And... those were all... spluttered with mud, and eggs, and everything!
[David:] Okay. Thanks very much indeed for your call Nelly. I wonder what other people make of that, if, er if other people have had similar experiences? If other people have had other experiences, if if they share erm, er Nelly's er belief there that there is nothing that can be done about it? 's the number to dial and we'll have some more calls in a moment. You're listening to Dial David Johnston on Max A M. I must say, that I find er calls like the one there from from Nelly particularly shocking and and, and can't help wondering how widespread er, this is er across the area? Th the thought of elderly people having their er... later years terrorized by... by er young thugs like that, some of... aged apparently only seven. I wonder if that's er, the exception rather than the rule? Anyway, if you want to chip in on that. Mr from Edinburgh next. Good morning! Hello Mr?
[speaker008:] Mr. [spells surname]
[David:] I beg your pardon! Mr.
[speaker008:] Er... just... I've been a Hibs supporter for forty four years now... following them and er... I don't think, I do nay fancy a move out to Ingleston. And, they keep saying that... surely that would suit everybody? I don't even know Hearts fans that would like to go out there.
[David:] But something's gonna have to be done though isn't it, Mr?
[speaker008:] Ha, aye. Okay, but... Ingleston's not the answer. Straiton would suit me if er there's... got to be a move. Straiton would suit me. Like the other gentleman that was Portobello... er... if it cannae be... where it is now then... Straiton, for me, would be the best option.
[David:] Do, but it isn't it a nonsense to to embark on two twenty million pound stadiums when, with a bit of thought and effort you could probably get away with one?
[speaker008:] Well, no, I think er, it's a nonsense for the, you to keep pushing this er... Ingleston one!
[David:] It's not me, it's the council that's doing it.
[speaker008:] Aha. But it's a,yo, it's not the council that's er... putting out to the people on the radio... it's yourself!
[David:] Right. Okay. Thanks for that. Jean from er, Fife, good morning.
[speaker009:] Good morning. It's about the home help.
[David:] Mm.
[speaker009:] Er, I agree with them that the elderly do have a bad deal, but if e, if somebody's got to take... money off... well surely sho, the government should be taking a cut ten to twenty percent off of their damned wages! They keep on getting extra wages every year for doing nothing!
[David:] Put the government on performance related pay?
[speaker009:] Exactly! Yes! Because, I mean the elderly have got little enough, okay, there is extra benefit, but they don't want people to know how poor they are. I work amongst the elderly and I do know that they are very shy about telling people just how poor they are. So surely if the government er, have, can't have the money they cut their own throat?
[David:] Okay. But, I mean,do, to to be more realistic, I mean,o, if, obviously if, if all the government took a fifty percent pay cut it still wouldn't make a great deal of difference? If benefits are going to be squeezed,i is there a, is there a painless way of doing it or, or is it going to cause suffering whatever happens?
[speaker009:] Well, I think cu, er... cause suffering whatever it happens, but, surely why, I mean the elderly had to suffer through the wars so why should they have to suffer again now? I mean, the young ones, a lot of them sitting around in Edinburgh and... begging off the streets and that, they could get off their backsides and get a job! And er, let's face it there is jobs going if they're wanting them. Okay, they're poor paid, but at least they would have the pride... of saying that they've got a job... whereas the elderly are having to just sit at home and turning down their fires and turning down their central heating in case they can't afford their bills!
[David:] But I mean, were led to believe that some of the people that you see sitting on the streets of Edinburgh begging are actually making [LAUGHTER] a good living out of it []!
[speaker009:] Yes! Definitely, they're making far better living, but they're also getting all their benefits, they're getting er fringe benefits off the government.
[David:] Mm.
[speaker009:] So, I mean, er it's the proof old folks that... get it, they got it in the war time, they had to starve in war time to feed their children. I mean, I, er personally, I mean, my father was killed ten weeks after the war started. My mother had four children she had bring up, without anything for the first two years, how the hell she managed it, I don't know!
[David:] Right.
[speaker009:] But now tha, they're, they're punishing them because they're... they're ancient! They're just, they don't want them, and yet they're keeping them... living longer! They keep on getting them drugs to keep them going longer, so why? I mean, they can't have it all ways!
[David:] Okay. Thanks for that. Mr from Musselburgh, good morning.
[speaker010:] Good morning David! It's about this Scottish Homes Charters.
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] While I sympathize with the caller from West Calder, I feel we pay poll tax as well to cover all these things... but... when I bought my house, my solicitor had me in for two hours... and went through all my obligations under the title deeds... part of was, that I had to pay one three hundredths of keeping the open areas clean and tidy... plus grass cutting.
[David:] Is it, is that because the th the house you live in's got a lot of... green space round it?
[speaker010:] Mine has none around it that belong, ah ah, doesn't belong to, it belongs to Scottish Homes.
[David:] Right.
[speaker010:] But, there are parts in the estate which are maintained by district council... district council and are paid by Scottish Homes.
[David:] Right.
[speaker010:] And you ar, it is part of your obligations when you take the house on. And I feel that many solicitors do not do their job... they do not explain fully to the purchaser what they are taking on.
[David:] Right. So yo, so you're saying that it should have been explained to the man from West Calder that that's the sort of, er level of charges he'd had to pay and if he didn't want to pay it he should have taken a different house?
[speaker010:] Yes. I mean, I de, I do, I agree with what, I don't agree Scottish Homes charging this at all
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] but it's there in your title deeds. Therefore, I know it's in my title deeds... and I would assume it's in his title deeds.
[David:] Right.
[speaker010:] And, I mean I fully sympathize with the gentleman, but I feel his lawyer should explain this to him, and also I feel, why should he pay such a... extortionate rate of poll tax... and have to pay again... for grass cut and street swept? Cos that's exactly what it is.
[David:] Okay. Thank you very much indeed for that. Mrs from Edinburgh, good morning.
[speaker001:] Er, good morning Mr Johnston. I'm on on about the same subject. I stay in the Slateford district and I'm in a multi-storey flat, I bought my house three year ago. Now, when I started to ba er buy my house, we are paying, we were paying twenty seven pound a month for the upkeep of the building, it's now went up to thirty four pound twenty two pence a month. It's absolut
[David:] And wha so sorry, who who have bought your flat from? Is that
[speaker001:] Oh oh sorry dear! The co Edinburgh Corporation.
[David:] Edinburgh District Council, right.
[speaker001:] Yes. Er, now we are paying thirty four pound twenty two pence a month for the upkeep of this building, that, as far as I know there's twelve tenants in this block has bought their house. Now, when I moved in here twenty five years ago it was a very, very nice block! It really was. It's deteriorated and deteriorated something terrible!
[David:] How many flats are in it altogether do you think?
[speaker001:] There's er, there's nine, it's a nine storey building.
[David:] Right.
[speaker001:] And er... we're paying, and every time the corporation rents go up, what we pay a month also goes up. Now, as I say, it started off with twenty nine pound, and it's now up to thirty four pound.
[David:] So so what do you get for the thirty four pounds
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[David:] the lift?
[speaker001:] Well, this is the thing, we have a caretaker... but er... fo for his services, but I've been at the council and I have got nowhere, I have from the corporation, there's an awful lot of people complaining but they'll do nothing about it! That
[David:] Complaining about what?
[speaker001:] The state the building's in!
[David:] Right.
[speaker001:] I mean, I have done a lot about it, and I'm the only one that has, as I say, got my mouth going and done something about it. But nobody will back me up!
[David:] Sa so so what are you getting? Yo you you're getting a caretaker
[speaker001:] That's that's all all the time, that
[David:] a door entry system, a lift?
[speaker001:] Well we've got the lift, yes. But I mean, when you think of the amount of people in this block that's bought their house and the state that the building's in, I mean, I have told them in the corporation that a lick of paint would nah do it any harm.
[David:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Because it is, it's deteriorated, and deteriorated something terrible! The
[David:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] building is really shocking! And I mean, we were told it was a first class area... but there's, if anybody walked into the building just now you would nah see it was a first class area to look at the state the building's in! I mean, you know, when you think of what you're paying as a, the other gentleman was saying, we are paying the thirty four pound twenty two pence a month, then you've also got your poll tax above that, and then your mortgage as well!
[David:] Mm.
[speaker001:] A, and so, to me, I think for what we're paying we should be getting some service and we are not getting it! This is where I am so annoyed! But er I wish some of the other tenants in this block would back me up and do something about it, but nobody will! They're all saying and they're all talking but I'm the only one, I have been at the council, I have been at the councillor, I have been at Waterloo Place, but nobody will back me up at all! And I think for what we're paying we should be having a wee bit er, the dir, the building should be a looking a wee bit more respectable and presentable to what it is!
[David:] Okay. Thanks very much indeed for that. Mrs from Edinburgh, good morning. Good morning Mr Johnston. It's actually about where the squeeze should be taking place. Mm mm. It really annoys me when people get on and do the young people... down! There are not an awful lot of jobs going about, get that straight to the people that, you know! Now, the squeeze should be from the tax at the very top. All these conservatives sit at their conference saying what they're going to do to the unemployed and the fraud and what have you! We had a business man on Question Time... who was saying that five hundred million pound... fraud going on in... the benefits, right? Mhm. But he said that is... a pittance compared to the tax dodging at the top, that's it's billions! Now I really do feel... people, I I'm amazed at the working class people! They don't stick together. They they should see this, and they should be pushing it and saying... you get your house in order before tackle the young people. I know the fraud goes on, and it's wrong, but I can understand it in some cases. What because you see th, people a at the, at the bottom end of society see people at the top end indulging in tax avoidance schemes and things like that, and off Yes! shore bank accounts and think well if they can get away with it why can't we? Yes! Well a, I I didn't say anyone should get away with fraud. No that's wha, no I see that. But You know, but I do, I can understand if you've got desperate, people will try anything, especially for the young families. The there's Now, I'm a pensioner, and I think it's a scandal what we get... for a pension after all the years that you, you fight for you, you put away for your old age, and before you know it you've nothing! And then you become dependant on the state and you have these Tory as smug as you like! White collars, upstarts! I mean their morality! They have their own morality I think we all know that! But, the morality a and to go on about Christianity and again,tha I feel ashamed sometimes when I think of myself... you know, a Christian, that's not Christianity! They, I mean th er, they're caring and sharing, and theirs is greed and gaining! Okay. Thank you very much indeed for that. Alfie from Edinburgh, good morning.
[speaker003:] Er, good morning, yeah. I'd like to talk about er, Wallace Mercer and er, I just cannae let him get away with this er... in my opinion he's a two-faced twit! He's er... he's saying that er... the shifting of the ground's political... but I'd to remember him that er,th it's the council that's doing their job, he's not doing his job. They're there to pe, to protect our land, and that's what they're doing. Right? And also, he's got a short memory when talks about political, things like that! Does he not remember when he brought John Major to Tynecastle? Right? Does he not realise that most... er Hearts fans, and I'm a Hearts fan... are not Tories, he is, but most of the fans are not! Right? So er... he's got a very short memory. He does nay, he does nay think, he does nay think before he speaks.
[David:] So,sa so what did, what did you make of what he was saying today, it's either Hermestone or he's gonna upgrade Tynecastle?
[speaker003:] Erm... no er, I'd li I'd like to see er... him getting, er shifting, yeah... to a different place, but er, he's gotta remember, the greenbelt comes first. So I hope he's listening!
[David:] So so, you'd you'd say that you would want to go to Ingleston?
[speaker003:] Er, yes I'd, I think I would go along with that, yeah. Yeah.
[David:] But but you think the council should protect the greenbelt from both the development proposals of Hibs and Hearts?
[speaker003:] Yeah, and er, certainly. Yeah, that's what they're there for, they're doing their job... it's him that's not doing his job.
[David:] Okay. Thanks very much indeed for that. Mr from Kirkcaldy, good morning.
[speaker004:] Hello! Yeah, I'd like to speak about the... the squeeze on the benefits.
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] Er, why can't they just... look at, er do a means test for child benefit? Er, if those that were earning over a certain amount, who certainly don't need this child benefit... to same the degree anyway, that's those of at the lower end of the pay scale... we could... they could certainly save a lot of money, and they wouldn't have to do the squeeze down on the ones that would have the most.
[David:] I mean, child benefit if, erm... is, is a very emotional issue isn't it? And and people say it's sometimes the only er money tha that a mother wo gets that she can call her own and and use in the way that she wants to.
[speaker004:] Yeah, that's possibly true, but
[David:] And they say, you know,ev even in apparently wealthy families, er, you know, because the way the money's divided up at the end of the week, or the end of the month or whatever, that that, the no... the child benefit money's all, all the woman gets.
[speaker004:] Well th, the money's for the child's benefit in the first place. Er, in double income families, certainly in double income families, surely the wife's gonna have more control over the money... that she earns and the money that she can use?
[David:] Okay. But I mean, er you can see the, you can see the point of that and and presumably, yes, there must be lots of very wealthy people who who er, just get the child benefit and hardly notice it... but at the same time, couldn't we means test the old age pension? Cos presumably there must be an awful lot of wealthy old age pensioners about as well... who, who could do with a bit less er, from the state because they've got plenty of their own, er and give a bit more to people who don't?
[speaker004:] Well I, I think that's, that is also a possibility. I think every, all the benefits should definitely be means tested, I know that most of them are to a degree. Erm... but there comes a point where th, the government, the line that the government draws for means testing's always... very low. Whe, why to take the, the sting out of the issue they could put the, the line... higher up on the earning scale, or higher up on the sa... the... receiving scale for the older ones who have so, possibly stopped working? Now, I know that these people have worked all their life to get their money and their saving... savings and things like that, but if they're able to manage on wha... with less benefit from the government, surely they shouldn't have to watch other people who struggling and in dire needs because of that?
[David:] Okay. Thank you very much indeed for that. Wonder what people make of that? Means test all benefits. Old age pension, family allowance and things like that, just to make sure that those that need get a bit extra.. You're listening to Dial David Johnston, 's the number to dial. Mrs from Loanhead, good morning.
[speaker005:] Good morning Mrs Johnston. It's about an article by Alistaire in the... Evening News. I don't know if you've read it? It's about the new council tax stating that erm... people will, householders will not be, receive any notification of the value of their house... and of which various bands are just placed. Apparently if
[David:] Are you sure about that?
[speaker005:] Yes. It's a, I'm favouring it, in, it was in the Edinburgh Evening News, October the second.
[David:] Right.
[speaker005:] I've got the cutting here.
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] This also states that under the government rules and the Lothian regional council can only publish the list in public libraries. And the, this will appear by the end of November, and people will only have... after this first council tax demands in March, they've got to appeal if they think they're in the wrong band. Now what I would like Mr Alistaire and the rest of the... Scottish M P's is to bring up in parliament a... Scotland will have to be revalued every five years as done in the past... where England have only been revalued every seventeen years, which I think is most unfair.
[David:] I find it, find it hard to believe that you're not gonna be told... th the valuation of your house, in as
[speaker005:] Well, it
[David:] in a, in as much as er, you know evaluations an arbitrary, and presumably there must be some right of appeal against the decision taken by the district valuer, or whoever carries out the valuation of the house.
[speaker005:] Yeah. I've got the cutting here
[David:] Right.
[speaker005:] and it says, you can only appeal... it will appear in November, that's when it's going to be, er put into the library
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] and any appeals against valuation have to be made soon after the first council tax demands are received at the end of March.
[David:] Right.
[speaker005:] [reading newspaper cutting] Mr said, I advise people to check in case there has been a mistake. They []
[David:] Right.
[speaker005:] [reading] should be told the evaluation personally... and given a chance to appeal if they feel it is too high [].
[David:] Okay. Thanks very much for bringing that to our attention. Mr from Fyfe, good morning!
[speaker006:] Good morning! Er, I just wanted to talk about the cuts, er, proposed cuts in pensions. Yeah?
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] Erm... I would go further than erm... performance related pay for the cabinet and, and so on, and I would actually put them all on income support... erm... and see how they could cope! Or er, or on the dole er level of er... of money. Erm... because I don't think these people er... appreciate er, what it is to have to count every penny. Erm... and I didn't get any indication from the Tory conference, watching it, that er, that they had any more idea.
[David:] Of course, there was that er World in Action programme a couple of years ago wasn't there, when the Tory MP from Newcastle, I think it was, went on the, on the dole for two or three week, but I
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[David:] mean, presumably it's quite easy... for the first two or three weeks, it's after, after a couple of months that er... life gets more difficult.
[speaker006:] Well absolutely! I mean I'd like to see erm... I'd like to see how they would like it. That could be the first cut in my opinion. They're on seventy and eighty thousand er... er a year! Er, the economic situation is is entirely their fault, er, not that I'm saying that the Labour would do any better, but erm... I'd like to see a bit more er, a bit more opposition from the er, from the Labour party and er, not so much direct action, but saying, you know, things do not have to be like this! There do not have to be any homeless people! Er, and it's er... outrageous er... that there are! Erm, but er it's, it's quite wrong that pensioners and er, the poorest should have to take cuts again... erm... when there's people on such high salaries.
[David:] Okay. Thanks very much, er for you call. Hilary from Edinburgh, good morning.
[speaker007:] Hello. I'd just like to disagree with the gentleman that said that er... the, the child benefit should be mean tested for us.
[David:] Aha.
[speaker007:] But, I think it is for your children, but erm... I've I worked... er, before I had the children and
[David:] Listen, I tell you, I tell you what Mrs, it's an awfully bad line. Put the phone down we'll call you back in in just a second because i, we can't... really make out what you're saying. Sorry about that. We'll come back to you in a second. Er, Jim from Shots hello?
[speaker008:] Yeah. Good morning again David. Er, can I ask Wallace Mercer, if he's still listening to the programme, if he was considered the environment in his plans for the football stadium? Er... Ingleston seems to be the only feasible, er... site, where the wi, could be a proposed er... rapid rail transit... system in operation. You know, I'm like the others
[David:] yo
[speaker008:] I'm like
[David:] you like trains don't you? [LAUGHTER]
[speaker008:] Well I do like trains, but it's not just a case of liking trains, okay, yes, I like, I like trains, I like, I mean I'm old enough to remember the steam trains, it's not just a case of that. I read in the papers last week... benzene, the benzene is used in unleaded petrol.
[David:] Mm.
[speaker008:] They, they have found dangerously high levels of benzene in Glasgow, Edinburgh, and other places, and this benzene apparently it can cause cancer. Now you take your choice, it's either benzene in unleaded petrol or lead in leaded petrol! Also, in today's... er Scotland on Sunday, gathered, they found it not just Edinburgh, but Britain as whole I think. They found there are higher levels of carbon monoxide, carbon monoxide pollution... from vehicle exhausts has increased by forty two percent
[David:] Right.
[speaker008:] over the last ten years! The, I mean, how long have to be, have we to, er and I'm I'm disgusted with Edinburgh that nobody has phoned in on this sort of point! Er I, they don't seem to ca, er do the Edinburgh people not care about their environment or?
[David:] Well especially after that survey last year
[speaker008:] Yeah!
[David:] tha that that showed er dangerously
[speaker008:] Yes!
[David:] high
[speaker008:] Yes!
[David:] levels of er, of er
[speaker008:] Mm!
[David:] poisonous gases in various parts of the city.
[speaker008:] Mhm.
[David:] Okay. Than thanks for that. Tom from Edinburgh, good morning.
[speaker009:] Good morning David! I, I didn't intend to come on but I think it's one of the best er, Sunday mornings I've had in years! Er, with three ladies and a gentleman come and support the pensioner, I mean this is really great! It gives me a... [LAUGHTER]... the energy to go on and... and er fight all the harder. Now, regarding the means testing of the pensioners... the... means testing with pensioners is dynamite for any government! They've got ten million pensioner... and yet about two million of them are, are quite well off
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] and er, I can assure you if they started means testing pensioners they would, any government would go out on their ear! Er, and by
[David:] [sigh]
[speaker009:] the way
[David:] But I mean, surely i if there's not enough to go round then those that need it most should get most?
[speaker009:] There is enough to go round. We're still one of the richest countries in the world and... [sighing] a we [], and er the people they ha, there's the wealth is only about er... ten percent of the people on, and about eighty percent of the wealth!
[David:] Right. But it's unlikely that the conservative party is likely, going to embark on a major distribution of wealth programme between now and the next election.
[speaker009:] Yeah.
[David:] And and, you know, the benefit's problem's one that's pressing presumably because
[speaker009:] Of course, it is!
[David:] because they're running short of cash.
[speaker009:] Well they, they better start with... perhaps the rich? And er, by the way, pensions, pensions are er, are taxed! You get all these pensions taxed! And... there's loads of people just over er, getting a pension and getting a two pensions and tha they're paying tax as well! So your pension's taxed!
[David:] So, so that's er really a way of means testing it er... more painlessly? Okay. Thanks for that. Jim from Edinburgh, good morning.
[speaker010:] Aye, I'd like to speak on this er, outrageous proposal to sa, you know, screw down the people on benefit. This, this present government and it's predecessor has attacked the social security... ee... system ferociously already! Th er, industrial injuries benefit's been virtually abolished er ee along with such things as the reduced earnings allowance. And there's been screws on housing benefit, we've had the withdrawal of... the right of students to claim income support and housing benefit, and unemployment benefit during vacation time. Erm, to think that those who are dependant on benefit from public funds are gonna be expected to suffer still more is, as I said, wholly outrageous!
[David:] Bu but I mean, what alternative is there if there's not enough money meet the benefit bill?
[speaker010:] Well, I mean, who says that there isn't enough... enough money to meet the benefit bill? I mean, I know the government say that, but... but think of the money that we er, must be saving now on our armaments bill. We, with the, you know, detente, and the collapse of the the U S S R... and... we'll be saving a fortune now on, on armaments so surely that could be
[David:] But but well I don't, I don't
[speaker010:] ploughed back?
[David:] Well I don't think we are though, because I mean
[speaker010:] Well we
[David:] we've just, we've just ordered the forth polar, er the the forth Trident submarine as the er... you know, the the the, the slimming down of the armies yet to take to effect. Presumably they're still, you know, flying around and, and and all the rest of it?
[speaker010:] Yeah, but ne, you know, nuclear weapons and so forth, surely those have been scaled down. We're told that erm... you know, the ma, the massive redundancies in places like
[David:] Ferranti is... due to erm, you know, those resolutions Defence cut backs.
[speaker010:] Yeah. Between ea, between east and west. So the money, and a lot of money must be getting saved... ee... somewhere, so I don't see any reason why that couldn't be ploughed back into the,th th the benefit system. I mean, again, it's outrageous
[David:] Mm.
[speaker010:] to say, only... state retirement pensions payable on an earnings related basis. After all, people have contributed to these pensions during their working lives... and in order to qualify for a full pension, you need to have paid into it for over forty years. Are you, is someone gonna pay into a insurance scheme for forty years and then suddenly be told, well you don't qualify? I mean, that's a classic case of changing the, the rules after the game's started!
[David:] Right. Okay, thanks for that Jim. Er mi, Mrs back again, hopefully on a better line this time. Hello Mrs.
[speaker007:] Hello.
[David:] Yes it is.
[speaker007:] Er, it's just I feel that I've worked all my days and did without... and er... er... had put savings away and things like that so that when I stopped working to have children I would have money, but if you were means tested, and the money is for the children as well, anyway... and the people who, you know, I don't mean that all people, a lot of people who are supposedly not having money, and getting all these things, they sell them and things like that. And I mean, all people do that, but... why is it when you've worked you always seem to get hammered? If you're in a borderline sort of wage, you always get hammered for everything, and you don't seem to get any kind of
[David:] But I mean that would just be an argument about where they set the level that you no longer were to qualify for child benefit, but I mean,bu, you know,presuma, presumably er,th the point the man was was making that er, the child benefit goes equally
[speaker007:] Aha.
[David:] to, to the poorest in society and the richest
[speaker007:] Yes.
[David:] in society. I mean
[speaker007:] Aha.
[David:] you know, presumably the erm, Duchess of York qualifies for child benefit.
[speaker007:] Aha.
[David:] If she ever has time to pop down the post office to get it.
[speaker007:] Yeah.... I've, yeah I know, but it's just some days you, I know, I see what you mean, talking about that, but... at the end it is for your children anyway, cos... you know, that money should be for your children... and if you have worked and you put the money away for them anyway, you've paid your taxes and things.
[David:] Right. A and,we it, well that that takes us back to to er, to what I think, either er Tom or Jim was saying there that... you know, if you're paying into something yo you you expect to er, to get out of it when and if you need it.
[speaker007:] Well you do. You know, and I mean we we work, you know, it's like er... I mean I have to pay full poll tax and all these type of things too, even though my husband's on a sort of very... er basic sort of wage, and I pay all these things... you know.
[David:] Okay. Thanks very much indeed for you call. Donald from Livingston good morning.
[speaker001:] Good morning. Er... I've just woken up, sorry! Erm just... something that came into my head e er cos the alarm switched on with your programme and it was a gentleman talking about the different taxes and what have you
[David:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] and I thought... come into my head, it's probably complete rubbish but it seems logical at the time... which was, if you... got rid of er, a lot of the various taxes that they paid and put everything on to VAT, apart from the fact that you'd be... a few, just by upping the rate of VAT... they would collect the extra monies, you'd save a lot of the money you'd pay in administration costs... by, all the various different departments er
[David:] And and there's, the more money you had the more things you would buy, so the more VAT you'd pay?
[speaker001:] That's right. So I mean
[David:] But, but the only trouble
[speaker001:] everybody pays VAT because you're... you pay for the things that you buy. I mean, they always get the money through
[David:] But th the only trouble, the only trouble with with that is, it might knock the rate of VAT and u up an awful lot and the people who only buy very little will be able to even less.
[speaker001:] But the thing is, who, at the moment you're paying... right, er you pa, you get your money off your employers, you pay your tax... you go out and buy your things and pay, pay... your taxes on whatever you buy
[David:] Mhm. Oh yes! I, I see the
[speaker001:] whether it's services or goods
[David:] theory behind it.
[speaker001:] then, when you've finished with it you're paying again yo, to the community tax, as it's going to be or whatever
[David:] Okay.
[speaker001:] er... to get them to take the stuff away.
[David:] Okay. Listen, thanks for your call. We're right out of time. Er, thanks to everyone who's called the programme. What a horrible thought! Fancy... turning on your alarm clock an an being woken up by me banging on! Have a very pleasant Sunday. [recording ends]