[Martin:] I've got your form here somewhere
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] and erm... I, it tells me what you wanted to talk about. Yes. Erm... oh that's right. You're third year English aren't you?
[Lente:] Yeah, that's right.
[Martin:] Yeah. Okay. And er oh you er it's social work you're interested in is it?
[Lente:] Yes.
[Martin:] Yes. Erm... okay. [whispering] Yeah []. [reading] Can I get on a postgrad two year course next year []?
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] You mean to apply now for autumn?
[Lente:] Yes. I think that's very optimistic really.
[Martin:] Well, and what experience have you got?
[Lente:] Not very much. I mean I, I, I took er a gap year out in Birmingham working for a church.
[Martin:] Oh I see.
[Lente:] Er
[Martin:] And what did you actually do?
[Lente:] Well it was called a Discipleship Training course erm
[Martin:] Yes.
[Lente:] so a lot of it was teaching. Erm but the relevant
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] bits to this would be erm I ran er a youth group in Ladywood which was er central Birmingham.
[Martin:] Oh yes.
[Lente:] And er we did a couple of weeks erm teaching in schools and we helped run a erm a lunching club for old people.
[Martin:] Oh yes.
[Lente:] But the, the, probably the relevant thing would be the youth, the youth work. Erm...
[Martin:] Yes. Y what did you do on the youth work side?
[Lente:] Well we... it was run from a local church but erm
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] the... the fairly elderly couple which, who started
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] the work up erm
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] he was ill or something or going away and erm er the church we were working for was invited to take it over.
[Martin:] Oh I see, yes.
[Lente:] And er so we were the kind of... erm the team who were there the, at the time so
[Martin:] And
[Lente:] a couple of us took it on.
[Martin:] did you sort of play table tennis with them, or what [LAUGHTER] did you do []?
[Lente:] Well that I mean that t to get them in yeah that's the sort of thing we started with erm playing pool and er table tennis and that.
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] Erm
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] and then we went up to more interactive things. We had... I mean you couldn't do that much but it was
[Martin:] No.
[Lente:] you know a ten, fifteen minute discussion and stuff like that.
[Martin:] On... what sort of topics?
[Lente:] On r on religious topics mostly.
[Martin:] Oh I see, yes.
[Lente:] I mean we did you know stuff like erm er... what's the one I did? Are, are Christians boring. Erm
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER]
[Lente:] you know sort of thing like that.
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER] I see []. So, so you weren't really doing anything on... their sort of personal development or their social... problems or, you know, could they get jobs or could they get work or what were the pressures on them, how...
[Lente:] No.
[Martin:] how did they... sort of cope with their relationships or anything like that?
[Lente:] No. I mean th we did er
[Martin:] No.
[Lente:] we talked informally about erm their
[Martin:] Oh.
[Lente:] relationships and things like that cos that was
[Martin:] Oh right, yeah.
[Lente:] the sort of thing that cropped up.
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] I mean there was nothing on a, on a formal level or anything
[Martin:] No.
[Lente:] like that welfare
[Martin:] No.
[Lente:] or jobs or anything like that.
[Martin:] No. So I mean it doesn't, I mean, I mean the point about social work erm... you know doing... er some experience is I think so that you actually experience the erm... sort of so the, the group dynamics of people who are in trouble and can't cope.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] And I, that's why I was wondering... er how much you did on that front really.
[Lente:] Yeah, I mean that... par apart from the youth and I've done some at home as well erm
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] ... the only other relevant
[Martin:] Not much.
[Lente:] thing would be
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] erm... er holiday... schools work.
[Martin:] Oh yes? Yeah.
[Lente:] Which I've done since I was sixteen.
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] Erm... but that was just group leader stuff really. Erm but... no I ne I need erm to get on a voluntary placement next year probably.
[Martin:] I think you probably
[Lente:] But
[Martin:] do, yeah. Yeah.
[Lente:] but erm I don't know what sort of thing wou would get me the best experience.
[Martin:] Well the thi one thing you could do is go and talk to... one or two admissions tutors of the social work... courses. I mean there is one here of course.
[Lente:] Right, yeah.
[Martin:] And you could go over to... erm the Social Work Department in and try and you know get an interview with the admissions person.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm and... say you know, what sort of... idea, you know, what would you think would be good experience? I mean I think it might be good if before you did that you could try and explore a bit on your own and, and have some idea but I mean
[Lente:] Yeah, sure.
[Martin:] in a sense, when you've done that, er it's a good thing to check it out.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm
[Lente:] Well I've, I've got a couple of applications on the go. I mean I've got erm seven, well.
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER]
[Lente:] But there's one
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] er... erm it was in the Church of England Newspaper of erm...
[Martin:] Mm. Mm.
[Lente:] er there's a place in Dover which, which'll be a residential thing for a year.
[Martin:] Ah.
[Lente:] Erm
[Martin:] That sounds... what, what sort of... er people have they got there?
[Lente:] That's, that's erm adults with erm learning disabilities.
[Martin:] Oh I see, yes.
[Lente:] Erm or there's, there'll be... the other one er...
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] I've got contacts with is
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] SHAD erm working in London with erm a placement with someone with a disability working
[Martin:] Oh yes?
[Lente:] forty eight hours on with them and then forty eight hours off.
[Martin:] Oh I see.
[Lente:] And that's
[Martin:] Now what's SHAD? That's Single...
[Lente:] Erm... I can't remember what
[Martin:] no.
[Lente:] the exact acronym is.
[Martin:] No. What sort of people are there? I mean er
[Lente:] Erm well there're all sorts of er range groups but
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] erm it's mostly physically handicapped people.
[Martin:] Oh I see. Yes.
[Lente:] Erm
[Martin:] Well it might be good. Erm... er is er now does that have a religious basis, SHAD, or
[Lente:] SHAD doesn't, no.
[Martin:] No.
[Lente:] Erm the one in Dover does,
[Martin:] Does, yes.
[Lente:] but it's not... erm er it was, it's welfare based rather than
[Martin:] Yes, I see. I mean I, I don't know how you feel about it but it might be a good thing... to do something that was not religious based, erm
[Lente:] Yes, definitely.
[Martin:] ... y you know, just to get in with er a different sort of group of people with different sort of motivations and so on,
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] erm to show you know you have the broader erm experience. I mean hav have you looked at our Alternative Opportunities section out there, or
[Lente:] Erm...
[Martin:] That's the yellow files.
[Lente:] that's the yellow files.
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] Yeah I did I did go through it.
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] I've taken a
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] f erm a couple
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] of addresses down.
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] But there there wasn't, mm, well there was nothing that seemed immediately er relevant I must say, but
[Martin:] No. I mean you've not looked at er a lot of the mental health stuff? I mean er people like the Richmond Fellowship, or... did you, you didn't find them?
[Lente:] No.
[Martin:] Maybe you don't actually, don't want to do mental
[Lente:] I don't
[Martin:] health, or
[Lente:] well, I don't know. Erm but...
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] I'm not really sure what, what I'm looking for.
[Martin:] No. What, do you have any idea what sort of social work... you would want to do in the end, or not really?
[Lente:] Erm... well, I had a look at probation which is a a different
[Martin:] Oh yes?
[Lente:] but similar avenue I suppose,
[Martin:] Yeah. Mm. Mm.
[Lente:] erm but there, there are elements of that which come into social work, I would have thought.
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] Erm... er young off w work with young offenders or something like that. Erm
[Martin:] Yes. Yes. I mean there are broad categories you see in a sense. I mean certainly the social services now divide up a bit. I mean... er you know the, the, the erm... training is supposed to be a generic training so that you learn the various erm ways of coping with clients you know, and it
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] doesn't matter whether they're ninety five or... you know sixteen, there are
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] certain sort of listening skills and er erm the, the idea that you, you've got to get erm people to look at the things maybe they don't want to look at
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] but in a positive way, and those sorts of things will obviously apply whatever group you're dealing with. But on the other hand I think the erm social work is now going... back again to a situation where it's really rather more specialized.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Certainly I know, somebody I know who works with North Yorkshire, they seem to have divided up into the... old and the young.
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] Erm so you've either got you know the, the, the sort of or the old people, or you've got the young people, and that reaches back down the age range into things like child abuse which is now, you know, very er much er on the agenda. Erm... so I mean I think, you know, it might be useful, well, in some ways it would be very useful for you to have erm two sort of six month stints in rather different environments so that then you'd sort of keep your options open a bit.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm if you were interested in probation then maybe you could get work in a probation hostel... er you know as, as some sort of er assistant. Unqualified helper or something.
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] Erm which would give you some contact with erm, er you know people who'd er... er just come out of prison or, or you know had been serving some sort of sentence or other, you know, maybe not a custodial one or something. Erm... but that might be interesting. I mean I'm sure if you asked erm... you know the probation service... people in York, I'm sure they could, well I mean if you're thinking about probation, you probably ought to go in and look, unless you've already
[Lente:] Yeah, sure.
[Martin:] ... done so, I mean and as part of that you could... ask questions about whether, you know there might be some longer-term... placement you could do or something.
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] Erm... so I mean that might be... worth it. Would you do this erm... I suppose if you, well I don't know, it depends whether it's residential or not. You you'd be... erm quite happy to do residential...
[Lente:] Yes.
[Martin:] would you? Mm.... I think that's good because I think most of it probably is residential.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm and of course you get... erm you know a rather more intense... sort of experience I think if you do that.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm I mean it's not what everybody wants but erm I think it is quite er interesting. I mean the, the Richmond Fellowship things are quite interesting. They've got sort of mind you they have their own training sort of regime as well, which in some ways is, means it's quite good experience because it is... structured in, in a, in a... way to give you some training, whereas of course if you just go in to do a job then erm how much... sort of training you get varies a bit. I mean one would hope you got some wherever you [LAUGHTER] went [] you know,
[Lente:] Mm, sure.
[Martin:] er but sometimes you don't get very much. Erm and if there is erm... a sort of definite regime then that, that may be quite good. I mean it depends... er whether you're in a... fearful hurry to start the training... you know,t and get
[Lente:] Erm
[Martin:] qualified. I mean erm...
[Lente:] No I don't think, no I'm not in a fearful hurry. It's just... I've, I've done three years at university now and I, I
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER] Yes [].
[Lente:] ... and it's, it's a subject which I've enjoyed doing a lot, English,
[Martin:] Right. Yeah.
[Lente:] erm but it's, it's had n you know no vocational direction whatsoever,
[Martin:] Right. Yeah.
[Lente:] and erm... er i now er now I want to... I don't mind training again but it, it's got to be vocational.
[Martin:] Right. Yes.
[Lente:] And so... erm... the, the experience in w the work experience I get now I want to be with a, a definite view to get to, get in training
[Martin:] Right. Yes.
[Lente:] in order to get
[Martin:] Yes.
[Lente:] ... a job.
[Martin:] Yes I see. Yes, what I really meant was I'm, I... forget exactly but we could look it up in... you know the Richmond Fellowship file out there,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and they've got quite a big place at Harrogate where you could go for a day or two to observe what was going on and so on. Now I think, if I remember rightly, they had a sort of two year... sort of training pattern,
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] which you do, and then you're er you know in their eyes you're, you're sort of trained to some sort of level for their sort of work. Now that's n not the same thing as the... the erm study year you know, the
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] social work qualification but, erm, on the other hand... you know it's a structured sort of and therefore you get, you know, there'd be reviews and all this sort of thing, and therefore you'd get something out of it. Erm it's just that er and I don't suppose you need to stay two years if you don't want to. I mean if it was working... well then maybe you'd stay an extra year and... sort of finish it off but
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] erm if, if you know you, you felt you wanted to go off and do th start the professional social work training well that would probably be alright. Erm I think too of course the thing about probation to go back to that,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] is that you have to be accepted by the Home Office as well as the erm you know particular institution running the course. I d I don't mean that's er er a terribly difficult thing but it is just that that does have to happen.
[Lente:] Right. Er that
[Martin:] Erm.
[Lente:] whe what sort of thing are you talking about? I about past criminal offences and stuff?
[Martin:] Oh no. No I think it's, well I mean yes presumably. I mean I
[Lente:] Well
[Martin:] don't think they like...
[Lente:] Well I haven't got, well I got stopped
[Martin:] No no.
[Lente:] for not having my lights
[Martin:] Yes.
[Lente:] on my bike once but er [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER] Well [LAUGHTER] no I don't I don't think that's too serious [].
[Lente:] [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] No it, it wasn't really that,i it was erm although I'm sure they do... check that.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] But, well I think they check that sort of thing for social workers don't they?
[Lente:] Yeah they do, yeah I read that yeah.
[Martin:] Cos they... have to be very careful, especially with this abuse...
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] business you see that, er anyway, erm... no, I think it's more that the Home Office want to be satisfied that you're the sort of person who will make a good probation officer.
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] Erm pardon?
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] W er yeah, yeah. I mean er they don't... I, I think it's more like an interview you know... er really, where they w they will be trying to assess your suitability as well as the actual institution that's going to give you the course.
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] So you've got two of these sort of sessions er er to go through, that's really the only point.
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] Erm and... I mean I'm not too sure, you'd probably need to ask the probation people, what specific things they were looking for, but I suppose the probation service, I mean you are an officer of the court,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] erm which means there is a sort of er disciplinary er sort of element in it. I mean I suppose there is in all social work in a sense, that if you go in to look at a family and, and you're trying to assess... you know whether the children should be taken into care, well you're exercising a... a sort of statutory erm... er sort of responsibility, and as far as the clients are concerned, er if you, like that can sort of get in the way of er... er a more human sort of relationship if you see what I mean, because
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] you know, in the one case you're, you're the representative of court the probation... erm officer and they know that if they break the probation or you sort of erm do a bad report on them, maybe they've got a suspended or something and they'll, so you know there's a, and, and you somehow have to handle that
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] so that it doesn't alienate the person... and, and, and they regard you as a, you know and that's actually probably quite tricky, except of course that you can't just let them off, because you [LAUGHTER] are actually [] an officer of the court.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] You see what I mean? And er probably they'd be interested to know how you would sort of handle that.
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] Erm and er the, I suspect, I mean there are probably as many answers to that as there are [LAUGHTER] probation officers []. Er but it's a particular problem for probation, you know?
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm... and the, the social work thing has also something of that. You know, if the erm... that if the family think you're going to actually take the child off them because they're not looking after it properly, then I mean obviously they're not perhaps going to be as frank with you as they might otherwise.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] And you know that may hamper you in really reaching a decision about... erm... the real nature of the relationship they've got with the child.... So you know there are some quite interesting... sort of angles
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] ... erm... mm. But basically I think most courses now, not sure there's actually a legal requirement, I don't think it is, but most of them want a at least a year's sort of full time... experience in erm, you know,d dealing with underprivileged people really and their problems and people who can't cope for one reason or another, and how... er y you can er er sort of help them and what sort of relationship you can build with them and so on, and how
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] you feel about it and all that. And then you can talk about all that in the interview, about your motivation as to why you want to do the... job you see?
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] And, and probably you pick up some of the language used to describe this, you know.
[Lente:] Yeah.... But erm
[Martin:] mm.
[Lente:] er York apparently ask for two years' experience in...
[Martin:] Do they?
[Lente:] the postgrad course.
[Martin:] Oh do they? Yeah well you could go and talk to them and see what they... what they thought you ought to be doing in that two years.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] I mean erm... well I don't know, would you want to stay here, or er
[Lente:] Erm... I don't know. I mean is it... I shouldn't think so. If I, if I was t two
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] years... erm
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] ... training in between
[Martin:] As well as two years' placement or something.
[Lente:] Yeah. I mean I've, I've very
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] much enjoyed my three years here but
[Martin:] Yeah,.
[Lente:] I think it would be nice to go somewhere new.
[Martin:] Mm. Mm. Mm.
[Lente:] Erm
[Martin:] I think one of the things is of course to try and use the placement to sort of check out for yourself erm perhaps what sort of group you want to be working with in
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] in general terms, you know. I mean one of the problems with probation I think to a certain extent is that... er obviously if you get these people who keep going into prison and coming out again, er it's really pretty difficult to erm... er... influence their behaviour positively probably.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] And that can be a bit depressing, I think. Erm... whereas you know maybe with the younger people you feel, well at least there's... you know more, more chance. Erm
[Lente:] I think you feel that you've put in more a more positive input.
[Martin:] Yes. What if y well that's right, yes. Yes you know there is a chance still to er get them on a... er a route which will give them a sort of positive... er relationship to society maybe rather than a negative one.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] But on the other hand of course you've often got to deal with not just them, but their parents or, or people around them or the people they relate to and...
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] you know er e so even, even that can be... quite difficult, but on the other hand... you know there's probably more, more chance of... creating something positive.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] But I mean it depends. I mean some people actually... erm... depends what you think of as positive. I mean I, you know some people actually... erm... quite like looking after the older people, where
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] really I mean what you're almost sort of presiding over is a sort of steady decline, really, but on the other hand I think some people think if you can make that as erm as sort of dignified as you can and actually give them... sort of support when they actually need it,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] then erm that's actually quite a worthwhile, you know some people get quite a lot of satisfaction from doing that.
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] So it's a very personal... sort of thing really, you know which area you... want to go into. And I suppose... it's not necessarily always the one that you've had experience in so far, you know.
[Lente:] Yeah. That's true. But I mean the, the
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] ... I suppose... the, the sort of things that made me think I might be suitable for social work have been coming from working... with the young.
[Martin:] Right, yes. Yes.
[Lente:] Erm but you see I haven't... I don't know. I suppose in interview, especially with er a C V like mine, that I might come over as quite... erm... naive...
[Martin:] Yes.
[Lente:] and I, I ha I've had a privileged background. You know even
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] the very fact that I'm sitting at university,
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER] Yes [].
[Lente:] would denote that. Erm... but I... I want to... and I'm not sure where to go from here, I'm not sure
[Martin:] No.
[Lente:] where to get the contact that I would need. Erm
[Martin:] Well it may, it may be that... you, you will... it'll be a sort of growing thing, you know?
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] What whatever you start with, that'll, that'll give you another... erm... er sort of experience. I mean I think that's why in way it, it would be good to go outside the religious context, because then you'll come up er y you er you know you'll meet people who have a er a rather different motivation
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] to your own, but you'll be, you'll understand it, you know, and you'll, you'll... erm er get to understand what, what their motivation is, which
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] I think'll be very important because
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] probably er the majority of your colleagues are not going to be religious.
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] I mean unless you actually do go and work for a specifically religious... charity,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] which of course you, you might be able to do.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] But erm that would er... y you know limit you er very much, and even if you did, er you would almost certainly be, be erm... having to relate to other professionals in, in, in the er area who, who were not... religious, so it would be a very good thing to...
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] do that I think and, and see another... side. And I mean in that way you might sort of really want to go and look at one of these erm... er... sort of... er rather awful inner city areas. But I suppose Birmingham is not... er er [LAUGHTER]
[Lente:] [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] marvellous [LAUGHTER] is it really [] from that point of view.
[Lente:] That's right. Er where I was working erm in the
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] last er half of that year
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] erm w in Ladywood erm er
[Martin:] Mm. Oh right.
[Lente:] erm the people who came to the youth group they...
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] erm they were erm... underprivileged.
[Martin:] Yes.
[Lente:] I mean the schools they went to weren't... er weren't really what I was used to [LAUGHTER] you know [].
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER] No []. Yes. Yes.
[Lente:] Erm... but to be honest I, I think you're right about the Christian angle because I do think that erm, although I enjoyed that year,
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] erm if
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] if I had er if I could do it again I'd do something... erm really different from that,
[Martin:] Yes.
[Lente:] erm a lot
[Martin:] Yes.
[Lente:] more practically-minded than it was.
[Martin:] Right, yes. Yes
[Lente:] Erm because it was a, a sort of a student thing as well,
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] and there was, there
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] were, there was bible teaching and all sorts but... I don't know. I don't...
[Martin:] Mm.... Mm.
[Lente:] I, I should think you're right, I would get
[Martin:] Yes.
[Lente:] er boxed in.
[Martin:] Well I, I think it would you know you th there there's, there's... I mean that's not to er deny the importance of erm er you know Christian motivation,
[Lente:] No sure, mm.
[Martin:] it's ju it's just to get a look at the other side so that you can see that erm
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and erm... I think too you, if, if you can think perhaps... for yourself, try and think out what you want to get out of this experience. You know what you want to get out of it,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] er in terms of equipping yourself for erm er you know being er erm... er... well better able I suppose to, to work out... where you could make er a, a, a, a real contribution you know?
[Lente:] Mm. Mm.
[Martin:] Now what do you need to [LAUGHTER] know [], you know, about yourself or about how you relate to particular groups of, of underprivileged erm or... er you know inadequate people, I mean people who can't cope in various ways, particular erm areas, I mean age groups or particular forms of erm... er maybe disability er or handicap or whatever,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] which you know maybe you, you, you'd like to... erm... sort of er see how you related to those sort of people.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm... er it's a huge area of course.
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] Erm and, and I think in a way you y you know you may start the exploration and then that may lead you on to do something else, and, and you may spend... actually a bit of time before you actually want to start the training.
[Lente:] Sure.
[Martin:] You know before you're sure whether it's... cos you know if you get into probation you see, that's quite a specialized... area and, and it may I think actually it might be... it's quite difficult to get into.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm... er so er you know it may be that you would need to work, and I'm sure they would probably expect you to have worked with offenders erm
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] or ex-offenders or something in some... category o or other, or er perhaps amongst young erm you know underprivileged groups who... provide a lot of the erm juvenile criminals.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] You know so that you are trying to do that. Er and also it's not always easy, I mean... there's all this youth work business and sort of detached youth work and so on in... erm... er you know in the very underprivileged areas, but actually I, I think people say that the erm... er the disaffected teenagers are actually some of the most difficult people to relate to at all. I mean some people have a knack.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] You know. But, but they really are quite... quite difficult you know, and almost you want your sort of most skilled [LAUGHTER] people []... er doing that really erm
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and er it's sort of a question of erm... how much challenge you want to undertake both during the placement period and immediately afterwards. But that's one of the strengths I suppose of the social work qualification, that it is a generic one so
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] you can move about afterwards...
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and so on. But...
[Lente:] And the, and the training
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] er I mean er especially
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] er with it changing, I mean that's er it's very much
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] placement based isn't it?
[Martin:] Oh yeah.
[Lente:] But you see the thing
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] er... that would be... erm... structured in a way that y... the people who are er training are making sure you've got the best out of it and are making
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] sure you were...
[Martin:] Oh yes.
[Lente:] erm examining what you
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] were learning as you went along,
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER] Yes []. Yeah.
[Lente:] and erm...
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] you know that's exactly what I want.
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] But I need
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] this experience to get on the course
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] and I need to ensure that this experience erm... well I... I need to make sure that I will be evaluating it in a similar way as I went along.
[Martin:] Yes. I think that's right. I think if you can... now, it may be that you could find a sort of semi-structured thing like the Richmond Fellowship. Now I've no... [LAUGHTER] brief for the Richmond Fellowship []
[Lente:] [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] you know,
[Lente:] No.
[Martin:] j it just happens to be one that I know about.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] There may be lots of others which do very similar things, but I think this is a question of you working out the criteria for your placement that you want, you know,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and, and what you're trying to do and what you hope to get out of it,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] erm and er then you know you'll, you'll have a bit more of a, a shopping list... as it were, and, and that may help you to erm actually define where you want to go within this huge range of... of er you know possibilities.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm... I mean... there are erm... it's very interesting. Cos there's also another th area I know a bit about is, and, and don't take [LAUGHTER] these as [] being the only areas, it's just it's easier if you actually discuss a... a sort of case, you know?
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm... there's this erm Rudolf Steiner community which is part of the Camp Hill Village Trust. They actually set up villages, which are in erm... you know usually in rural er surroundings, and erm er they have erm... usually I mean they're mentally-disabled people there, and erm er they set up the village so that there are able- bodied people in there, and yet they live with the er mentally disabled people, you know they have houses and they the erm in inverted commas normal people have... erm... [sigh] children and all this sort of thing, erm and yet they have erm er... some of these mentally defective people living with them in the house,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and they have to you know... let their children get used to them and so on and
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] erm er... it's very interesting because of course the children grow up... probably much more comfortable around people who've got mental problems than you or I [LAUGHTER] would be []
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] because they, they just know they're different and they, they learn a way of coping, you know? And now that's a very interesting thing to see, [whispering] I mean []
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] erm now those sort of villages, there's one at Botton Village near Danby, which is out near Scarborough. And you could go to that for a weekend if
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] you wanted to, to see what was going on. And I'm sure you could have great discussions with the people there and so on about all sorts of things. I mean, I mean there are er there are, I mean they probably... I think a lot of them probably are not social work qualified.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Now I don't know what training they've had actually. Erm I mean maybe they haven't had very much, [LAUGHTER] but erm [] but in, in a sense there's a sort of huge commitment on their part to that, because they actually, I remember some chap came over to do the talk and... I think he's got four kids and he said, well you know, I didn't know how my kids were going to react to people fine you know
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] . I mean you have to watch things a bit, but you know basically it's a good experience for them. And erm... he said, I've got no... erm... pension or anything, you know I, cos they don't, they pool the money you see, they, and I mean they do things like erm oh I don't know have cows and make cheese and ice
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] cream and grow potatoes and all this and probably they have bees and sell honey and you know they eat er they really try to be self- sufficient... sort of community as much as they can. Obviously some things they probably have to buy, shoes and...
[Lente:] Mm. Mm.
[Martin:] that sort of thing, so they make some things and sell them. Erm and er but he's worked at that you see, but he doesn't get any money for it I don't think. I don't know what they do about... must have some sort of spending money, but
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] you know it doesn't... they... they don't erm... sort of exist in the social security system like the rest of us do,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and therefore that community's going to have to look after him when he's old.... And of course I don't know how long... don't know how long that one's been going for, but obviously that's another... sort of problem in some way.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] But I mean there are huge ways of er you know very very different ways of giving service really.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] And you might find out some... sort of interesting things about that. Er the social work qualifat qualification's a good one because it, it... is a sort of base for all sorts of things, and, and you know you might learn specialist erm... I don't know, sort of psychothera therapy techniques of various sorts, but probably the social work qualification would be a good starting point to... to build from.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] You know, so erm...
[Lente:] good starting point the... social work qualification.
[Martin:] Okay. Okay, well you know. Yeah.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] And then you see where it goes on... from there. Mm.
[Lente:] But what if...
[Martin:] Yes?
[Lente:] if erm ... well where do I go from here really? I mean if I want
[Martin:] Well I th I think you, you, I, I would erm... er go and, and have another look at this alternative... thing.
[Lente:] The.
[Martin:] And obviously there are some of them which relate locally to organizations which are national
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and you could go and look at the local one and talk to the people there and see what they're doing and
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] all this sort of thing. Erm... and I'd try and go and see the admissions person on the... C Q S W here,
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] erm and ask them you know and say, and if they want two years, say well you know I'm pretty keen on this, now what, you know I [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] necessarily expect you to have me...
[Lente:] [LAUGHTER]
[Martin:] when I come back and apply [] but I mean you know what sort of things do you think I should be doing? And try and tell them briefly what you've done in that... sort of area you know, and, and see wh see what they say. And erm maybe have a look through erm some of the erm well there's a file on... social work isn't there and all the stuff about the qualifications, and get some of the prospectuses and so and
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] erm... maybe go and see one or two others if you can get to see them. Erm and er... you also try, so, so really it's a question of developing your own ideas about what you think... you want to explore and the sort of skills and things that you want to try and develop,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] erm and also checking with them that you know you're not [LAUGHTER] going one way and no no [], they'd want you to do something else,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] erm and, and trying to er... er both satisfy yourself and them... that, that you know you're getting the right sort of experience.
[Lente:] Yeah. Okay.
[Martin:] Mm.
[Lente:] And er, yeah.... I suppose I wanna be a bit careful that... the experience I get isn't too specialist as well.
[Martin:] Well, erm [sigh]
[Lente:] Do you think that matters or not?
[Martin:] Mm. I think a lot of it is about... erm... how these er... people, you know how really a lot of the problems for people are in their relationships with the people around them,
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] and, and if those are bad or not supportive enough or actually destructive,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] then n you know they can't cope with it. And, and, and it's getting the idea of how that works... is very important. Now you, you can do that in all sorts of ways.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm and er I think, I think that's one of the most important things. And also how erm if you are a, a helper... what sort of pressures that puts on you. You know, what sort of emotional stuff they try and dump on you,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and, and what do you do about it, you know whe when they er y you know, I mean, I mean I think one of the things is you, you can start off erm you know very open and so on, but if you're not careful y y you actually take on responsibility for them... you know in a, in a way which is actually not helpful to them and is probably very bad [LAUGHTER] for you []
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] because you've just taken on too much. And you, but you, of course you have to take on something. There's only [LAUGHTER] if the []... person you're talking to thinks you don't care, well I mean they're not you know they're not going to think very much of you are they?
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] But, but if, if they discover that... you know they can really get you erm er to er do all their worrying for them,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] er then maybe they will try and do that. And that's not very good, you know. I mean your own aim is really to make yourself superfluous in the end. I mean you may have to support them through a... sort of bad patch, but the idea is to erm get them so that they can look after themselves, you know. And they don't really want to go on using you as a... a sort of prop, because I mean you can't afford that because you've got lots of other clients and you, you know really the aim is to try and get them back to... self-sufficiency.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] But... there is a lot of er sort of emotional interaction going on, and you'll have to get used to that.... And I mean part of the point of doing the training of course is to get the hang of how to handle that.
[Lente:] Yeah, sure.
[Martin:] Erm
[Lente:] But, yeah and then, but er in the context of the training,
[Martin:] Right, yes.
[Lente:] I'll be given structures in which to evaluate that and people will be continuously assessing me I suppose.
[Martin:] Oh yes, and seeing whether you'd... yes, how you were coping with it and whether you got too involved or whether you didn't get involved enough or whether you actually were able to sort of get this balance between erm... the sort of emotional support you give and the actual practical help which maybe they need in some sort of way, you know because I mean
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] I mean... erm and sometimes of course you can't give them... the practical help they need, you know,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] because there isn't a grant or there isn't whatever it is and... you know and, and how you actually manage to... er cope with that yourself. Because you know you don't have unlimited... resources. In any helping profession you've usually got this problem, you haven't got enough resources.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] You know. Er I mean you obviously have to make erm... decisions about that and so on. And the nature of caring is changing to the caring professions. I mean now, the erm... the social workers erm are care managers in a lot of cases, in other words it may be contracted out to somebody else to do the actual caring and you look at the package which the client is getting, [whispering] you know it might be I dunno some old dear who needs... meals on wheels and visits every... week or something []
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and maybe it isn't you that do the visit, it's somebody else who's, who's being paid to do it, but you may be responsible for exercising professional judgment about whether that's the appropriate thing that should be happening and perhaps assessing whether they're doing it properly.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Now that's a comparatively new development but, but, but it's, it's coming in now.... Erm...
[Lente:] Mm....
[Martin:] but I think you're right, I think if you, you can get qualified that's the thing and then you can begin to look... thereafter. Except that you do need to have an idea of... I think which area cos that will determine your placements and things you see.
[Lente:] Yeah. Well I mean all, all I know in that at the moment is that I, I'd I would be... most naturally drawn to youth, I would have thought.
[Martin:] Okay, well I should start there... you know, erm... and, and er see what options there are for getting involved with erm... you know young people, erm
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and... but they are the toughest, that's the only other thing I think.
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] Except it may be easier for you cos you're nearer in age you see. But that, that causes its own problems because erm, you know, do you just become one of them or what do you do, and
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] erm ho well anyway, anyway. Er but if that's what you're drawn to I should start there,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and, and, and see, but try and see what sort of various experiences there are. Of course there's also you can use one of the agencies like Community Service Volunteers... to
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] try and get a placement. You know they're a... erm placements... agency basically. I mean they don't charge you anything, and er I don't think they charge the employers anything, but their raison d'etre is to get volunteers into appropriate places.
[Lente:] Oh that sounds.
[Martin:] Erm... but even although that's their raison d'etre they've also only got so many places, so many
[Lente:] Sure.
[Martin:] volunteers and they try and match them, so
[Lente:] Right.
[Martin:] the clearer you are about what you want... er the better, you know, the more likely you are to get... w er you know what's appropriate for you really.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] So I think you probably need to sit down and try and think out some... criteria for yourself about what you want.
[Lente:] Mm. [LAUGHTER] Yeah. I mean... I'm sure you're right, but I just, I just don't know with the information I've got how to make those sort of decisions. Is it a case of wading through files, or
[Martin:] Well erm... er yes.
[Lente:] can you only get those sort of erm those sort of
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER]
[Lente:] ideas through the er placements themselves? I mean I
[Martin:] [LAUGHTER] Yes, I see what you mean []. Well to a certain extent I suppose it's true, erm but I suppose if you said, well... erm you know, can I think of skills that I need to develop?... Erm... and er if I can, what are they? And erm er what er you know how, how might... that be, be developed, you know. And what opportunities would I have for that in these various... er situations? You know.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] I mean I think there is a danger quite a number of the C... erm Community Service Volunteer placements involve things like looking after very severely handicapped people who are erm in higher education or something.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] I mean really severely handicapped so they really need sort of helpers with them for... you know at least fifty percent of the day or something.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Well now I'm not sure that that's actually a very useful... sort of thing to do.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] I mean, I mean I'm sure it's useful in the sense that it gets one person through er doing a degree who couldn't have done it otherwise, but whether it would actually give you the sort of... experience you want, I'm much more doubtful.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] And maybe you would know about that. Erm... y I mean if you read er or somebody suggested that to you you might
[Lente:] Mm. Mm.
[Martin:] have a view about that.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] But I think if y if you read some of the stuff and you said well, could I do that? Would that be what I wanted to do? And then you thought well no, no it wouldn't because, and why wouldn't it, er but on the other hand there might be some good things about it and what were they,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and sort of write them down, you know. Er I mean I don't think you want to spend hours and hours and hours doing it, but... but, but
[Lente:] Well I can't, I've got a degree to get.
[Martin:] Yeah. Well you know, if you spent an afternoon looking through some of the files and what the opportunities were.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Er and I think also it should be helpful to go to er a tutor, an, an, an admissions tutor and say well you know, what, what sort of skills... do I need to get? What are you actually looking for?
[Lente:] I'll certainly get that fixed up.
[Martin:] Yeah. Mm. And if, if you get... stuck with it, well come back and we'll have another... discussion, you know.
[Lente:] Okay. I th I think... the, the most suitable placement I've found was that one in Dover but there, there, then there's the... the erm the Christian motivation.
[Martin:] Yes. I mean I wouldn't want to labour that too much.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Er what was it there? You
[Lente:] It was er it's a residential place for
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] erm adults with learning disability. I mean it you know that would give you the sort working in a team and working with people and... erm
[Martin:] Mm. Mm. Mm.
[Lente:] I dunno.
[Martin:] It depends though. If you want to work with young people,
[Lente:] Yeah that's true, yeah.
[Martin:] maybe you should try, you know, and it may not be possible to get the [LAUGHTER] absolutely perfect answer either [].
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm but I mean on the other hand if you start trying to develop your... criteria, and I'd go out and... look at Botton Village and look at... the Richmond Fellowship or something,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and you know talk to people who do it and so on. Now say, there's a social work contact we've got in York, who's
[Lente:] I've read that, yeah.
[Martin:] Well go and talk to them about it,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and try and find out what they want and what's happening to the social services and y you know what they think about... er what they'd, what skills they'd like you to have and the sort of experience you need and so on.... I think the more people you talk about it to about it the better, especially people who are in it,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] or doing the selecting for courses or for jobs and so on. So maybe if you had a chat to the admissions person and a chat to the social work contact we've got in York,
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] and try and get out of them what skills, you know, and chuck in a few ideas of your own, you know,
[Lente:] [whispering] Yeah [].
[Martin:] maybe that would, that would be good.
[Lente:] Okay.
[Martin:] Does that sound alright?
[Lente:] Yeah, that's very helpful.
[Martin:] Good. Okay, erm... fine. Well I should think that's probably about it then.
[Lente:] Right.... Erm
[Martin:] Is there anything else? Erm
[Lente:] Er I'll make er other appointment, another appointment as and when I.
[Martin:] Yeah, that would be fine. You know, I mean we're here, well are you going down... at the end of the week or something? Or
[Lente:] Erm no, I've got too much
[Martin:] Yeah.
[Lente:] , I'm gonna stay here through Easter.
[Martin:] Oh right. Well we're, we're here except for Easter. Well you've probably seen, we've put a notice up on the front door to say when we're open and when we're shut over... the Easter vac, you know, but it's really basically a week we have at Easter and
[Lente:] Mm....
[Martin:] sometimes there are odd days... in the vac when we do other things and we shut, you
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] know, but erm...
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] And you can always catch me, if making an interview is difficult in the time
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] then you can catch me or one of the other careers advisors out
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] in the Information two till four every day.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] Erm during term that is, unfortunately
[Lente:] Right. Well of course I, I should have done all this last year, you know.
[Martin:] Yeah. Oh well. Never mind. It's, at least you're doing it now, and
[Lente:] Yeah.
[Martin:] erm... getting it right's important.
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] But I think you do need to plan a bit, you know in spite of the fact you've got the degree to do, if, if you can spend time going to see these people. You know, you don't need to spend... ages doing it, but, but just take a bit of time to do it and...
[Lente:] Mm.
[Martin:] to have a look at the opportunities in the files, thinking about what you actually... might want to do and, and so on and what's on offer....
[Lente:] Mm. Right.
[Martin:] Okay?
[Lente:] Right er, thanks a lot.
[Martin:] Right. Jolly good. Oh, now... I've got to stop this thing haven't I?
[Lente:] [whispering] Oh []?
[Martin:] [whispering] Er what happens er I stop [].