[Andrew:] A teacher needs a kid needs to have a teacher comment about its progress in some... specific area of literacy... such as a syntax
[Angela:] Mm.
[Andrew:] or its spelling or its grammar... then... you as its subject teacher should make a
[Angela:] Opportunity's there.
[Andrew:] comment to that effect
[Angela:] Mm.
[Andrew:] specifically... and tailored to that child.
[Paul:] I'm sorry I don't like the... the term literacy, I don't, I think it's too er...... I think right, you need their spelling
[Rod:] Er, literacy is... it's one of the general skills, I'm sure it's down as literacy... numeracy's the other one
[Paul:] It may be but, yeah.
[Rod:] but, but then we are con, if the argument on the one hand is we should conform to what the government's saying and I'm saying that's what the government says as one of the general areas we should address... I can't be wrong both ways if you follow my drift? You can't have your cake
[Angela:] Mm.
[Rod:] and eat it!
[Angela:] Well on the attainment targets for English they, what they've done is they put the spelling and punctuation underneath presentation
[Don:] Mm.
[Angela:] they talk about surface features but I mean that's gonna be e even more for people to understand.
[Andrew:] Well jus just to lighten the mood for a moment and to go along with high-falooting words... here are some
[Angela:] Ha!
[Andrew:] high-falooting words for... weak, oh poor rather, poor... here we go, atrocious, abominable, execrable
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, execrable, yeah I like that []!
[Andrew:] there are better one's
[Alan:] That's crap!
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Andrew:] there are better ones to come. Unredeemable
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Andrew:] flagrant, egregious
[Alan:] [LAUGHTER]
[Andrew:] abysmal, lamentable, excruciating, deplorable, disreputable
[Angela:] is nice.
[Andrew:] unsavoury, louche, diabolic
[Alan:] Louche?
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Andrew:] Listen, listen, listen, listen
[Angela:] What's this?
[Andrew:] flagitious!
[Angela:] God, that sounds rude! That's
[Andrew:] heinous, illiquidous
[Don:] [LAUGHTER] Ooh ah []!
[Andrew:] navarious, pernicious, and finally odious and obnoxious!
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Alan:] [LAUGHTER] Oh well []!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER] Ah yeah []!
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Can we settle for odious stroke obnoxious and then move up the.
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] I'd love to
[Rod:] Thank you for bringing a little bit of light in.
[Don:] Execra
[Angela:] Mm.
[Alan:] [LAUGHTER] That's great that one []!
[Rod:] Right... erm
[Alan:] [LAUGHTER] That's disgusting []!
[Rod:] To... how we doing?
[Don:] [cough]
[Angela:] Are you, are you seriously saying to me right, as a parent you choose a qualification, you like... pulling out your personal C V, and as a educationalist that literacy is a high-falooting word?
[Paul:] To... some people it might be, yes.
[Rod:] I I
[Angela:] Bloody hell!
[Rod:] Well I think, you know
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Don:] That's... that's not very good English!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER] I I [] If today, it is perfectly
[Rod:] but
[Angela:] appropriate
[Rod:] with all due respect we will meet that more and more once we have to put descriptions of levels down, there will be words
[Don:] Mm.
[Rod:] there that they don't understand and it's
[Don:] But that
[Rod:] going to be educational programme.
[Paul:] But I think this is this is something the kids will use as well.
[Angela:] The, they make it so obvious.
[Alan:] Yes, but the ki, if the kid's gonna say well... what's literacy? And you say, you know
[Andrew:] That's right.
[Alan:] and you say well
[Angela:] Reading, writing and spelling.
[Alan:] You're a, you're a... it's all, you know
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER] And all that stuff [].
[Alan:] your English!
[Angela:] Yeah!
[Andrew:] Yes.
[Rod:] Or or or language, not English
[Alan:] Yeah.
[Rod:] but... language.
[Angela:] Language.
[Andrew:] Yeah.
[Alan:] You see because if you start doing it like that... I mean, you could say... th th the mathematical skills, you could say well he's good on number, but his graph work is poor and... you know, he di, you know, you cannot... you can't
[Don:] Yeah.
[Alan:] you can't be that
[Don:] Alan me for me, mathematical... but I accept what you're saying that you mean... numerical for most of that alphabetical as as opposed to No, I said that.
[Rod:] Wi with with with all due respect... you know we we we're talking about the precision of the word and when you actually come to a ten point scale there will be some imprecision anyway in the... is it a six? Is it a five? Is, d'you know what I mean?
[Angela:] Mm.
[Rod:] So I I I think there's going to be some balancing anyway.
[Don:] You you're discussing this and that instead of putting presentation I put and neatness.
[Andrew:] it's possible... then
[Alan:] [LAUGHTER]
[Angela:] Pardon?
[Andrew:] then
[Don:] instead of putting presentation I put and neatness.
[Paul:] It's like you know, do we read them though
[Don:] Mm.
[Andrew:] Mm. She does.
[Don:] Well it's a that's
[Rod:] Right.
[Don:] just a fact.
[Paul:] Mm.
[Don:] Instead of presentation I put writing and neatness
[Paul:] [LAUGHTER] Ah, yeah []!
[Don:] to make it easy.
[Andrew:] It's our duty anyway to get these words though... the last minutes of discussion have been possibly the most valuable... cos if we cannot... use language accurately
[Angela:] It's about language, it's important! Yes it is!
[Andrew:] then we're not doing our job then are we?
[Angela:] Yes! You're absolutely right!
[Rod:] That's right, but the trouble is using language accurately... with all due respect... is is to some degree
[Don:] That's a
[Rod:] from where you're standing.
[Don:] terrible expression with due respect!
[Rod:] With limited respect
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Is it it depend on where you're where you're standing doesn't it?
[Don:] [LAUGHTER] When really it means with no respect []!
[Rod:] Oh that's unkind!
[Don:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Wouldn't be sitting here going through this process if I if I hadn't got no respect for your!
[Angela:] Could we have punctuality down there?
[Rod:] Well I was goi
[Angela:] I would quite
[Rod:] T
[Angela:] like that.
[Rod:] Right.
[Don:] Colour coded pencils for the classes!
[Rod:] Ca can we just go through
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] at the moment we've got effort and behaviour acceptable, we've got numeracy acceptable and we've got literacy acceptable... with reservations but, tough cookie! We've got attendance... I was going to suggest that we made that attendance stroke punctuality
[Don:] Mhm. If you get that all in. Be in on time.
[Rod:] Yes?
[Paul:] Yes
[Don:] Mm.
[Andrew:] I agree.
[Paul:] Yes.
[Don:] So so ca can I... effort, what about this concentration bit, that was a query?
[Rod:] Er
[Paul:] Mm.
[Rod:] what was on the orig, what did we have on the ori, I'm not saying the original list is like, is right Paul, I had something in there about homework, whether people wanted
[Paul:] No.
[Rod:] The the premise on this was... what... what do parents, and I know the words are wrong but at least it moved people along way... er er er what do parents want to know about their youngsters? Er, very simple... and
[Don:] It's hardly our authority
[Rod:] that was my feeling?
[Don:] is it?
[Rod:] Sorry?
[Don:] Hardly.
[Rod:] No, well I'm I'm saying to you the same sort of things, in general skills and abilities there are certain things that we required to put in... the er... numeracy the literacy... er, to some degree attendance and punctuality, although we don't have to do it on a subject specific basis... erm... we, everybody wants... to know about he young,ho... whether their youngsters are trying i.e. effort... ha, whether they behave in lessons. Erm... do we want... areas like working with others, do we want homework? I mean, that's what you're saying
[Paul:] Not on skills.
[Alan:] Not those two.
[Rod:] You don't
[Angela:] You did.
[Rod:] want homework?
[Paul:] No
[Don:] Yeah.
[Paul:] I don't want homework.
[Don:] No, I don't want homework.
[Paul:] No
[Rod:] Nobody seems to want homework in.
[Don:] No.
[Rod:] Why's that?
[Andrew:] It's spontaneous... doing it off their own back.
[Don:] Well how do you make a comment... on how the kids done a homework?
[Angela:] [whispering] []
[Don:] It's very difficult on a ten point scale
[Andrew:] [whispering] []
[Don:] wha what's ten for some kids
[Rod:] Sorry?
[Don:] may be three for another.
[Alan:] We have a homework policy that is accepted in the schools.
[Don:] We don't need comments!
[Rod:] No, I'm just asking I'm not
[Alan:] Yes.
[Rod:] I'm not trying to be
[Don:] Mm mm.
[Rod:] I'm just asking
[Angela:] Testing us.
[Rod:] why? Well I haven't, I haven't got an axe to grind!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Andrew, homework?
[Andrew:] I think that it isn't a general skill it at needs to be commented on, I think that it needs to commented on I think that it ought to be commented on in the... comment box.
[Don:] Yeah like... he never
[Rod:] Right.
[Don:] handed in a piece of homework
[Andrew:] Yes.
[Don:] all year!
[Andrew:] Yes.
[Rod:] Would yo would would
[Andrew:] Yes.
[Rod:] I, when I do the comment thing... put in... would we, I say I, that's conceited! Would we put some guide lengths on on things
[Andrew:] Yes.
[Rod:] that might be commented upon?
[Don:] To give
[Andrew:] Yes.
[Don:] people starters
[Andrew:] Yes.
[Don:] for five.
[Angela:] Mm.
[Don:] Yes.
[Rod:] Mhm.
[Don:] Homework, things that might be commented on in this
[Paul:] Yes.
[Don:] section, art, colour of your socks
[Andrew:] Yes.
[Angela:] I have put on my er, general skills and abilities, working with others... I wanted some social
[Don:] Could we not
[Rod:] Is this
[Don:] summarise that
[Rod:] is this
[Don:] and put the collectively
[Rod:] are they
[Don:] put a collective noun for that which
[Andrew:] I
[Don:] is what Paul was saying
[Paul:] It's
[Don:] a minute ago isn't
[Angela:] Mm.
[Don:] it?
[Paul:] It's
[Angela:] It's, what did you say?
[Rod:] Paul.
[Angela:] Pardon?
[Don:] Horrible!
[Rod:] It's it's got to be ca... often work sideways from working with this door open?
[Don:] No
[Paul:] No, I just
[Don:] No.
[Paul:] opened the door... about a minute ago.
[Don:] No, I think that... so social skills
[Angela:] then.
[Don:] perhaps
[Angela:] Yeah, some... some of it in.
[Don:] Social skills.
[Rod:] We are required in the same way as we require numeracy and literally... literacy, literally! to have something that indicates how the youngster gets on with others, I'm sure that's one of the general skills and ability.
[Don:] Social skills, yeah... I think summarises the whole lot together.
[Angela:] Mhm.
[Don:] How you get on with other people.
[Paul:] What about listening skills and... and speaking skills?
[Rod:] Well hang on, social skills. Cos these'll have to be clarified to some degree.
[Don:] You're gonna have a great deal of.
[Paul:] Body language! [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] But, but the words will be in, the clarification needs to be for as a as an addendum for for staff doesn't it?
[Alan:] Yes, a clarification is for the staff not for the parents!
[Rod:] Oh no!
[Paul:] Well, obviously not!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Don:] Ca can I
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Alan:] Or we'll be writing the whole books for them!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Don:] So concentration's there, okay. Could I, can I say something about
[Paul:] Have faith in our prayers!
[Rod:] [LAUGHTER]
[Don:] I think that we should be aware of what these levels...
[Andrew:] [LAUGHTER]
[Don:] mean. I think that we must... whe when we're, we we must come to some sort of consensus in the staff as to what the levels mean... in inverted commas.
[Angela:] Can I... suggest belo, below average... rather than poor?
[Paul:] I'm afraid I don't like that average.
[Angela:] I know it isn't ideal
[Paul:] Ooh no.
[Angela:] but it's... er it's... a little bit better than poor.
[Paul:] I prefer poor
[Don:] I like poor. I like poor.
[Paul:] Mm.
[Don:] Let's have a vote on it. Below average? Execrable? Poor?
[Angela:] Oh not poor, come on! How, how can you possibly like poor? The negative connotations of a word like that, come on!
[Don:] But some of them
[Alan:] Well
[Don:] are bloody poor!
[Alan:] well wo well one out of ten is indicating that they're poor!
[Angela:] I ye yes... and I agree with that, but we're supposed to be communicating with the little bastards right
[Don:] No, no I'm sorry!
[Angela:] in a sensitive way right, emphasising the positive
[Andrew:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] [LAUGHTER]
[Don:] No, no we're supposed to be communicating with the parents!
[Paul:] Parents
[Angela:] Exactly little bastards, that's what I said!
[Alan:] But we're not pandering... it's not pandering to the kids!
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Angela:] [shouting] I agree with you... but you, I mean, if, well you might as well say shite! Levels one, two and three are shite []!
[Andrew:] Can I... Can I
[Angela:] I mean if you're going to take that to the ultimate lengths
[Don:] [LAUGHTER]
[Angela:] the way that you lot are going on
[Don:] Why Shite, you know, the word is shit!
[Angela:] It's bloody John Wayne's version of educational terminology!
[Rod:] With all, with all, with all due respect
[Don:] Oh
[Paul:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Sold to Angela's er... mini outburst
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] I I... can we leave the word poor and below alone for the moment... so that
[Angela:] Right sir.
[Rod:] Angela can reflect
[Angela:] Yes sir.
[Rod:] upon it
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] and come up with other alternatives
[Paul:] What
[Rod:] we get what you're saying but at the moment... er... can, can we stick on skills and abilities and try and
[Alan:] Right.
[Rod:] get in here.
[Angela:] Sorry!
[Andrew:] I'm I'm stuck for a word I've I've asked... Angela, I can't explain to her what I mean... it's awful when you, when you got a word at the back of your mind... it's one of those words where... ki, a kid ham... anybody, any person... can... er, realise that something needs doing and do it without... being told to do it. Er, they have... er, a se se
[Paul:] Independence?
[Angela:] Sense of responsibility.
[Paul:] Some sort of a level of independence.
[Alan:] Responsibility.
[Andrew:] No.... None of those things. More creative than that. Er... you know, perhaps if... Baden Powell might have appr approved it, of it you know it's it's
[Angela:] Weird? [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] [LAUGHTER]
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER] I'm being []! Go on, carry on.
[Don:] I don't know what you're getting at, what what
[Andrew:] You don't do you, no? Never mind, as an extra skill.
[Rod:] O okay.
[Don:] Oh as an extra skill?
[Andrew:] As an extra skill, yes.
[Don:] Yeah.
[Andrew:] Perhaps it's so rare amongst
[Rod:] At the moment
[Don:] children that er, this [LAUGHTER] it seems unlikely that er
[Angela:] Stickability? That's a Brownie
[Andrew:] No!
[Angela:] term.
[Rod:] At the moment
[Don:] [LAUGHTER] Dib, dib, dib, that's a
[Andrew:] , no.
[Don:] scout term []!
[Rod:] I think, I think you're all getting a bit tired are you not?
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Andrew:] Well the cab firm said we could. I'm sorry to have brought this down to!
[Rod:] At the moment we have
[Angela:] What have we got?
[Rod:] i effort... behaviour
[Angela:] Yeah.
[Rod:] literacy, numeracy, attendance, punctuality and social skills.
[Angela:] Right.
[Alan:] Well
[Rod:] Is
[Alan:] writing and neatness can just be called presentation.
[Rod:] Right.
[Alan:] Er
[Angela:] Give us again what you've got, I want... effort, behaviour
[Rod:] Effort, behaviour... literacy, numeracy... attendance, punctuality, social skills and... presentation.
[Alan:] And have we not gotta take care that we don't... we don't have such an enormous list
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER] Oh yeah []!
[Alan:] [LAUGHTER] that people are gonna be going []!
[Rod:] Well, all that, all we've got at the moment Alan is a list of things that we feel should be in there
[Don:] But
[Rod:] it may well be that you'll say well, we want to put these in a specific order
[Don:] Aha.
[Rod:] or or that we want to leave some of these out. All I'm... trying to do at the moment... is to sort of get
[Angela:] Is do like a shopping list.
[Rod:] ideas of er
[Don:] Aha.
[Rod:] a shopping list
[Don:] on there because I I I I, this following instructions I remembered why I put it now... we are, but one you were saying that
[Paul:] Pardon?
[Don:] we're obliged to report on social skills and so forth
[Rod:] Mm.
[Don:] one of the most important things that bias report on is problem solving, and that was my... attempt at... problem solving.
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER] Is it []!
[Andrew:] The word that I'm looking for... is
[Don:] Problem solving? No?
[Andrew:] No! That's two words!
[Don:] Ah shit! [LAUGHTER]
[Andrew:] One word which... includes problem solving
[Rod:] Can fo, can we for the moment you have a a specific task Andrew which is to come up with a word can we put... can we put problem solving in for the moment?
[Andrew:] Mm.
[Rod:] Do we agree that we want something that that that that says
[Don:] Well you see following instructions... isn't really problem solving... but it's sa... partly a long line and the kid's would know... what it means... mm, that they know
[Angela:] I mean I would put that under... group work and social skills and no er... the way I would approach it but it may not apply.
[Paul:] I quite
[Angela:] D'you see?
[Paul:] like problem solving.
[Rod:] We... I'll have to
[Andrew:] Alright, well go and
[Rod:] go bu
[Andrew:] do some then!
[Rod:] I'll have to back through my
[Don:] Instead of
[Rod:] general skills
[Don:] alright, problem solving, at last!
[Rod:] So at the moment we've got one, two, three, four, five six
[Don:] There's only an extra
[Rod:] so seven eight
[Andrew:] Fine.
[Don:] There's only an extra one there! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven
[Angela:] We could leave literacy, numeracy no?
[Don:] there's only an extra one there.
[Rod:] Literacy, numeracy, we have nothing
[Don:] Fo... nothing for co, concentration's out... and literacy's in... following instructions is out, problem solving's in... er, mathematical's numeracy... er, social skills is extra.
[Rod:] And presentation I've got.
[Don:] Presentation is writing
[Angela:] Yeah.
[Don:] and neatness.
[Paul:] Yeah instead of writing and neatness.
[Rod:] Any further comments?
[Angela:] Ah, isn't behaviour in, in social skill... and then we could drop that as a separate one?
[Alan:] No, I think the behaviour
[Paul:] No.
[Alan:] is very important.
[Angela:] You want to, want to see that separate? No I'm not saying?
[Don:] It may well be a social skill but I think it's
[Angela:] aye
[Don:] worthwhile
[Alan:] It's a one that's
[Angela:] You want it identified separately?
[Rod:] We... we would
[Angela:] Yeah.
[Rod:] have to... er er I'll I'll try and come up with some talk of, some sort of definitions, guidelines of, I mean, effort's effort, I do, do you have to explain effort? Not really cos
[Angela:] No.
[Don:] Cos I come back to what I said about five minutes ago?
[Rod:] Yep.
[Don:] These levels erm... they've got to be in the context of the levels... of the national curriculum or fail to to be valuable.... We canna have everybody... putting... eights, nines and tens... and nobody putting ones, twos, and threes because then it it becomes meaningless... er, in relation to the section... it's got to bear some relation... to what sort of standard you expect from a child at at such
[Paul:] What's this? For what?
[Don:] at such an a
[Paul:] It's for
[Don:] Well these, these are te, it's a ten point scale
[Rod:] Mm.
[Paul:] This effort thing?
[Don:] Yes, the the the all these
[Paul:] Oh I didn't know that.
[Don:] have have to be at... that's why it's a ten point scale
[Paul:] Yeah but... I don't see how that might have to relate to national curriculum er
[Rod:] Well that was one of the reasons for doing it on the basis that there's a sort of uniformity and that we're trying to set a consistent standard.
[Alan:] Yeah, you've got a ten point scale but with effort we can hardly say... hey, there's a class there and you haven't, you haven't put anybody down as poor!
[Rod:] Oh no!
[Don:] No no!
[Rod:] Ah, we don't have to
[Don:] I'm not saying
[Rod:] apply that
[Don:] I'm not saying that... what I'm saying is that... that we must all have... at the back of our minds a a sort of considered opinion of what's
[Angela:] Aye consensus of what
[Don:] a consensus of opinion of of what levels
[Angela:] Yeah.
[Don:] are, yeah.
[Angela:] Right.
[Alan:] Well hopefully we already have.
[Don:] Well I think i, I think it's, I think it's it something that should be
[Angela:] Emphasised.
[Don:] emphasised at a whole staff meeting
[Alan:] Yes.
[Don:] that we should
[Alan:] Yes but the, that we needn't worry about at this stage I think.
[Paul:] What for these? For these here?
[Don:] Yeah, because invariably somebody's gonna put... erm, behaviour eight... and, everybody else is gonna put behaviour two and it's gonna become meaningless.
[Alan:] Well no!
[Paul:] It's gonna happen.
[Angela:] Well no, cos some classes
[Alan:] Not necessarily
[Don:] But eight... no but eight... in terms of in terms of behaviour
[Angela:] Aha.
[Don:] er, is... very very good and if you, it's it's level A at G C S E... in the area.
[Paul:] Well it shouldn't be like that!
[Angela:] Ah oh ha no come on Don!
[Paul:] no it shouldn't, no I disagree with that!
[Angela:] You can't quantify their
[Paul:] You can't
[Angela:] behaviour
[Paul:] no!
[Angela:] I can see, I can
[Paul:] I me
[Angela:] see the point of having
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Angela:] coherence of, er
[Don:] Mhm.
[Angela:] like that, but not... not to that
[Paul:] Mm.
[Angela:] fine point, it's classifying the kids too much!
[Don:] No, I alright, I, yeah
[Angela:] And in some class rooms the kids are gonna go down for a variety of reasons, they're gonna... they're gonna work their ticket... and in other class rooms they won't! And the gi, that's gotta be reflected.
[Don:] Oh yeah I I ca... yeah, I I accept I'm I'm being
[Angela:] What d'you mean?
[Don:] finickety but I
[Rod:] Well I tho though I I take what Don's saying in a general [LAUGHTER] [].
[Don:] In a general way, yes.
[Rod:] Actually I wouldn't mind it staying open cos I'm a bit hot.
[Don:] Right, leave it open. Yep, leave it open.
[Rod:] Is that alright? Andrew could you come and hold this door?
[Andrew:] Certainly.
[Don:] It's still
[Andrew:] I'll put head in
[Rod:] Erm
[Andrew:] close it.
[Rod:] we we've gone over... er, I mean are we basically happy at that? So we need to re-draft it... we... it needs to be sort of re-drafted in in a format
[Angela:] Yes, it's thanks very much
[Rod:] that, that we've got
[Angela:] for doing that.
[Rod:] and if I didn't say it strong enough, as Angela's done, it has given us a real basis to work on Don and it is appreciated.
[Angela:] Mm, it is.
[Rod:] Yep. We, pupil, teacher, date... does that still apply? Yes, it does doesn't it? Yes. I was just thinking about whether people sign but it does, no it still applies. Oh Andrew it doesn't ma
[Angela:] No I mean this guff... that was... you know, or stuff... erm, we've got more categories than we originally started with.
[Rod:] Well you would just need an extra space or two spaces on the bottom. D'you want to look at whether... you put them in any particular order?
[Angela:] I think you should yeah.
[Alan:] Yes, I think or I, and things like effort and behaviour
[Don:] Behaviour.
[Alan:] are important.
[Rod:] Well we
[Angela:] Individual as opposed to things that are hard like.
[Rod:] We we we finish in five minutes I feel that
[Paul:] Mm.
[Rod:] I asked Terry to come along because one of the things I tho I tho... I hope we might get round to spending a few minutes on was about... Alan's raised it before about... records coming in... er, and what the state of the game is in records coming into us... and how we're transferring that information, or not transferring that information onto dep onto department's national curriculum... er... material
[Don:] Mm.
[Rod:] is starting to flow into us.
[Paul:] Yes.
[Rod:] Er er and there are i implications for you in as much that... my simplistic idea would be that... everything in terms of a subject would be on a separate sheet... so that
[Don:] Mhm.
[Rod:] maths information we had a, a child would go straight to the maths
[Alan:] Yeah.
[Rod:] department etcetera etcetera.
[Alan:] But would it?
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Alan:] Whether
[Rod:] Well
[Alan:] you would
[Rod:] the point I'm making now is we've got Terry here
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Rod:] just to give you some background information cos... we do need to address that, I know it's a side issue from this... are we fairly happy with that?
[Angela:] Yes.
[Don:] Other than
[Angela:] Poor.
[Don:] poor. I'm strongly thinking that at
[Rod:] What else
[Don:] some stage you've got to say... to a kid
[Rod:] Right, whilst
[Don:] you are not good!
[Rod:] you have that on disk how much... how onerous is it
[Angela:] I agree.
[Rod:] for you to do
[Don:] No I can I can move it, I can, yeah.
[Rod:] Right, so would you do that for us so we
[Don:] Yeah.
[Rod:] can at some point get together and then
[Don:] I can't do it here!
[Rod:] Oh no! No
[Don:] No.
[Rod:] no!
[Don:] I haven't got a dictionary.
[Rod:] Well... you've got Friday night don't be so silly!
[Don:] Mm.
[Rod:] Erm
[Alan:] All over your place on Saturday
[Rod:] we can we can review that again.
[Don:] Right okay.
[Rod:] Aye Saturday morning! Is that okay?
[Paul:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] So tha, thank you very much for that, a little bit heated on occasion but we've got there.
[Angela:] Good though wasn't it?
[Rod:] No, I get very offended and upset
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] and agitated cos I like... smoothness and light. Go back to what I asked Terry... about, just so that you're in the picture really.
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Terry:] I think... one of the biggest problems we've got... or I've I've had in the last couple of years is that we've got so many primary schools that we get children from... Spring Gardens and Western... are now producing national curriculum information for which Marian has... got. It's come in in different ways, maths, English and science... from Spring Gardens is separate... separate sheets which we can actually take out the files and give... to each department, there's no problem there... Saint John's... again, is separate sheets, Collingwood isn't, it's actually on... photocopiable sheets, we either cut them up and give them out separately... in some form or whatever, and what I've, what we hope to do over the next... maybe this year is to ask them for a... sheet each, for each subject that we can actually take out of the file and give to each department, so that is has arrived, it ha did arrive last year... but it arrived in such hotch botch that... we didn't actually give it out, but we certainly have it this year and Marian and I... certainly, Marian anyway will get that together and give it out to departments. I know Paul's been down to Percy Saint John's and they are quite far ahead... believe it or not they have got separate sheets for most subjects and we'll able to do that... English at pri Spring Gardens is good, so it maths because that was actually dealt with by erm... Barbara
[Rod:] Barbara.
[Terry:] who is now left, but never the less it's been taken over by
[Alan:] Yes well the the ne the new girl's very
[Terry:] Yeah and
[Alan:] very good as well.
[Terry:] Yeah to, yeah she's okay, Janice, but there is somebody specifically in charge of each of the areas within the primary schools, they keep changing because they keep leaving but I mean obviously the there is... it is going on. The problem I have is putting them into forms and last was a was a specific example because we ended up with our seven G N, and I took the i, the information from each of the primary schools... and put them into form classes. Now this year what I've done is actually going to see the form teacher... and look at the classes and they've actually given me a lot more information this year and hopefully, keep our fingers crossed, the classes are very varied and we have good, we have middling, and we have the not so good and we've tried to keep those like that.
[Paul:] [whispering] Yeah we are, not so
[Terry:] It is
[Paul:] good []!
[Terry:] it is
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Terry:] well not saying tha, I mean I... and again I, I think what I need to do is get a sheet again, obviously working with yourselves and Rod... to get you more information to make sure the classes are not... and don't get same situation as last year
[Rod:] Are we in a position Terry then... for every child... t to... for example with years, with with with seven or eight etcetera to say to Alan
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Rod:] right... there's a sheet er, that indicates... er, what we are aware of the mathematical ability... sorry, the, aye, the mathematical ability o o of every child at... i.e. from Spring Gardens it will be a separate sheet
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Rod:] but from... wherever you said, if they're using one sheet for all three... we would need
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Rod:] at the present time to photocopy a couple of extra ones so Angela can have one
[Terry:] That's right.
[Rod:] and Don can have one.
[Terry:] That's right. Yeah.
[Alan:] I don't I don't know that you need to do all this... I mean, we would like ac... I mean as far as I'm concerned we would like access to this information... but I I don't particularly need some pieces of
[Don:] To keep it.
[Alan:] paper to keep.
[Paul:] I think that's very well sa I mean if they can be put in a room or
[Alan:] You know if the
[Don:] In the
[Alan:] if there's somewhere that that we can
[Paul:] secure room for the staff to just to
[Alan:] look at.
[Paul:] look at and browse and take the information that they want rather than putting... what sounds to me a lot of work on some
[Alan:] Because in actual fact I would I would be interested
[Paul:] Mm.
[Alan:] in not just the maths you see.
[Paul:] Yeah, yes.
[Angela:] Mm.
[Alan:] I would I would want
[Angela:] Mm.
[Alan:] to nick the whole, I want to know English as well.
[Don:] Like English, as well!
[speaker006:] [LAUGHTER]
[Paul:] Look what I'm saying
[Angela:] What about the small staff room?
[Terry:] secretary that could be got that way
[Angela:] Can all the tables
[Alan:] There is no need for you to do
[Paul:] Right.
[Alan:] an enormous amount
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Alan:] of work.
[Terry:] Right, so in other words, we just take it out of the files, keep the... children information in the tutor's office and just extract what you want to put in somewhere else?
[Rod:] But you would put it in alphabetical order
[Terry:] Order.
[Rod:] not form order because
[Terry:] Not form.
[Rod:] they'll obviously be moving about and tutors can't be faffing round every two minutes if something goes wrong.
[Paul:] Have to be secure?
[Rod:] It could go
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Rod:] mm
[Andrew:] With respect, will these... people not be getting SIMS soon?
[Terry:] They have, all our have got SIMS.
[Andrew:] So won't this information be on SIMS and can it ju not just be transferred?
[Rod:] I'm not sure Andrew.
[Terry:] Erm
[Rod:] I suppose it must be.
[Andrew:] Wouldn't that be a better way of keeping anyway?
[Terry:] Well, possibly.
[Rod:] But what about the current situation?
[Andrew:] Fair enough but... in the future so as not to have to
[Don:] Why can't just simply pass it round people?
[Paul:] These people won't be on si... the the... some of these primary schools are on?
[Rod:] Well they are, yeah!
[Terry:] Spring Gardens and have got SIMS.
[Rod:] Everybody's had SIMS training now!
[Terry:] Yeah, they've all got it,
[Rod:] Er
[Terry:] all our primary schools have got it.
[Rod:] Bob was down with his secretary at
[Paul:] Last time I went in everyone got called!
[Terry:] Yep, they all that
[Paul:] [LAUGHTER]
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Paul:] You're kidding me!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Alan:] Extract it, but keep it in your room alphabetically... then if the maths department say, hey look, can we have a look at that during the
[Terry:] Have it there for the first month or something.
[Alan:] Yeah go
[Terry:] Well as if, I mean I've got a draw in my filing cabinet, so as Marian that says
[Rod:] What er that
[Paul:] But filing cabinets tend to put people off.
[Alan:] No! We we will ask, I mean it's not gonna be something that's vital
[Don:] I've used a filing cabinet and it's put me off!
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Alan:] but at the minute
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] We no it'll go
[Alan:] We will just ask you can we have a look at it for a few days.
[Rod:] it'll go, it'll all go as it's individual sheets in a box file will it not?
[Terry:] Mm.
[Rod:] In a single box file with cap on.
[Andrew:] Oh well a box, yes.
[Rod:] It can go in a box file.
[Paul:] I've got a box file.
[Terry:] Ah.
[Rod:] Can we have the box file, if you could bring that in?
[Angela:] That's saves me bringing it.
[Paul:] A box file yeah.
[Rod:] That could be kept in tutor's room with
[Don:] Oh.
[Rod:] national curriculum... AT's on
[Don:] Mm.
[Rod:] it and it's
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Rod:] there
[Alan:] Mhm, oh yeah!
[Rod:] sheet on the top so if somebody takes it away
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Rod:] they
[Angela:] Oh
[Rod:] sign and leave the sheet.
[Angela:] that's a good idea.
[Alan:] Yeah.
[Rod:] And
[Don:] Here here!
[Alan:] Yeah.
[Rod:] But when you
[Don:] Jolly good!
[Rod:] when you did make the point about not having information I was concerned about that
[Paul:] Oh yeah!
[Rod:] it was an oversight
[Paul:] Yeah.
[Rod:] on my part... that didn't get passed down... and it is important that's.
[Paul:] But we
[Don:] Execrable!
[Paul:] Yeah! I mean we were
[Angela:] !
[Alan:] If we cheated about not having it back... you know, when parents came in June... but we don't need it immediately... you know, it doesn't have to be photocopied so that we all
[Rod:] But the
[Alan:] have it within the first term.
[Rod:] but for the from a tutor's
[Paul:] It is!
[Rod:] point of view when the information's been com... when so it's coming in and being sorted... it is better that it's done at that particular time
[Terry:] Oh yes otherwise, yeah
[Rod:] rather than filing everything away then having
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Rod:] to stop and go to files and taking it out. It's one
[Alan:] Yes
[Rod:] of those jobs
[Alan:] but
[Rod:] you're better off doing
[Alan:] but Terry has enough on his plate without having to... to separate them into maths and this that and the other and photocopy bits and pieces! Because we don't ne, we don't
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Alan:] them permanently, we
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Alan:] just need to look at them!
[Terry:] That's right, yeah. Yeah.
[Andrew:] The be all and end all!
[Rod:] Right, mine is a
[Alan:] Cos I will copy down anything that I think
[Terry:] Yeah.
[Alan:] is important!
[Rod:] Angela?
[Angela:] Yes! In the va, in the various schools that I've worked in I I've
[Rod:] Right.
[Angela:] made a list of all
[Don:] Is that two?
[Angela:] er, six... erm, I've made a list of all the different words that are used for crap on reports right? Special needs, cause for concern... inadequate, unsatisfactory, below average and weak
[Don:] Unsatisfactory?
[Angela:] and does, do any of them sort of leap out and you think yes, yes I love it?
[Don:] No.
[Rod:] In a sense I like below average, I'm concerned about getting the two damn words in, isn't that pathetic really! Below average is the best of
[Angela:] Can't we just... back it along a bit so that Andrew can... you know
[Andrew:] Certainly.
[Rod:] Could you call it beverage?
[Andrew:] Yes certainly... tha that can start there, finish there
[Angela:] I thought it was er?
[Andrew:] and they'll be loads of room to fit in
[Angela:] Below average.
[Don:] I shall leave poor in when I do it because I can't get it in!
[Andrew:] That's fine.
[Don:] Mm.
[Andrew:] I I... I know a good doctor
[Rod:] I take what you're saying.
[Andrew:] by the way!
[Don:] [LAUGHTER]
[Andrew:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] It's in the spirit of trying to be positive... I'm
[Angela:] Aha
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Angela:] it's important, all those sort of things add up.
[Don:] [LAUGHTER]
[Terry:] Certain people missed that joke.
[Paul:] No, I didn't miss it!
[Rod:] Thank you very much
[Paul:] I just ignored it!
[Rod:] just gone a couple of minutes over, let's go and.
[Don:] [LAUGHTER] Chose to ignore it []!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER] What did you say []?
[Don:] [LAUGHTER] []!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Angela would you like to put a couple of kisses down.
[Angela:] [kiss]
[Rod:] Thank you very much.
[Andrew:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] You tinkers!
[Paul:] I'm backing it, am I backing it?
[Angela:] I'm mi I'm not gonna stay here
[Andrew:] You're backing it, you're backing it!
[Angela:] listening to all this guff!
[Rod:] What the hell am I doing now?
[Angela:] God!
[Paul:] Ask Terry, what are we doing
[Terry:] Er
[Paul:] next?
[Terry:] we're doing controller
[Angela:] Oh
[Terry:] next, the programme
[Rod:] Oh I see! It's quite intense this isn't it?
[Paul:] What are doing?
[Angela:] Yes it is.
[Terry:] Well yes, you're doing something on your own aren't you?
[Rod:] I mean, I thoroughly enjoyed this morning
[Angela:] Have you gotta stay SATS now?
[Rod:] well I was... not lost but... and then this afterno, it's quite dif
[Paul:] Initiative.
[Rod:] mentally draining.
[Paul:] Initiative.
[Angela:] I quite enjoy myself doing these.
[Paul:] the word I'm trying to think of.
[Angela:] report.
[Rod:] Ah, but I get I get embarrassed because you people are so cruel!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] So rude to each other!
[Angela:] [LAUGHTER] You little li