[speaker001:] Or determining standards and then setting targets for all of your staff. Can you tell me how good a job you do? No
[speaker002:] You can't, why not?
[speaker001:] Because we're not set any targets and we've never given any feedback from higher We know who bad we do.
[speaker002:] You know how badly you do?
[speaker001:] You are You're told at annual appraisal week. Well there's not set If you get an appraisal, unless you get performance review.
[Kenny:] I got quite, I was given to it last year, I reckon
[speaker002:] How did they do that Kenny, I mean what good, who gave that to you?
[Kenny:] The boss
[speaker002:] The branch manager.
[Kenny:] Yes, he gave us five targets to achieve by the one that we had this year.
[speaker002:] Right
[Kenny:] I achieved all of that, and more.
[speaker002:] So erm, was that when you joined the branch first of all? Alright, so how did you do that, when you were getting interviewed some place in our area.
[Kenny:] Yes, he was totally good, he sat us down. Cos everybody else got the erm, forms, erm, the appraisal, and the one they had was supposed to be target setting for each department manager. Well I wasn't there long enough to us an appraisal to he give us, he still give us the targets
[speaker002:] Okay
[Kenny:] And I was in last week both Saturday's before I came here, and we went through we'd achieved all targets
[speaker002:] Alright, so that's kind of an ideal scenario, an interview situation's been very clearly set. Perfect, what about the rest of you. Heidi, do you know how you do?
[Heidi:] Only because I've just had my appraisal.
[speaker002:] Right, so
[Heidi:] Only because of that, and what they said in that totally shocked me, because erm, I, he hadn't given me any feedback about how I was doing.
[speaker002:] On an ongoing basis?
[Heidi:] Yes
[speaker002:] Do you think it's right then, that an appraisal should come up with those surprises for you?
[speaker001:] No
[speaker002:] Why?
[speaker001:] Because you should be told constantly, throughout the year, and there should be some kind of re-assessment.
[speaker002:] Right, does anybody get that?
[Heidi:] No
[speaker002:] Anybody at all?
[Heidi:] The targets I was given last year in my appraisal weren't covered at all this year in my appraisal by the manager,
[speaker002:] yes
[Heidi:] They were only brought up by me.
[speaker002:] yes, was it, was it a different manager?
[Heidi:] It was, but he had the sheet in front of him, which had my targets set on it.
[speaker002:] Possibly a lack of planning there. Anybody else, I mean we've had the erm, the formal target setting, and we've mentioned appraisals? I mean whether it's good feedback or bad feedback do you get an other feedback on a less formal basis?
[speaker001:] Mm We get bad feedback.
[speaker002:] yes, what do you get?
[speaker001:] Criticisms, you know.
[speaker002:] Criticism, what form does that take?
[speaker001:] What are you going to do about it, on the shop floor, it's, it's not done properly?
[Kenny:] We get both, [clears throat]
[speaker002:] Mm
[speaker001:] The formal and the informal. I've never, in all the time that I've been with the company, I've never had any positive feedback at all. Although I've had form, nobody's ever told me anything that I should be doing, people come round and say, you haven't done that. Erm, why's that like that, they don't tell you how to correct it, so often, you know, you don't, you don't know how to avoid making the same mistake next time.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And you know, you know, what's the point of coming round and giving you a bollocking if nobody's going to tell you why? I haven't, I haven't had any positive feedback at all, in all the time that I've been there. Erm, I'm in no man's land at the moment, because I'm like between, between sort of like branches, appraisals are coming up, how can I have an appraisal, I won't have anything.
[speaker002:] Ray.
[Ray:] Well I think I've been rather more fortunate, the two branch managers I've had er, before, I'd not had long enough, er, both have given albeit not regular, but feedback both positive and negative, er, when you're doing a good job and when you're doing a bad job, and er, in all honesty, it's probably the appraisal itself, that's actually been unnecessary because of their feedback they're given me during the year, because the appraisal is just a formal repetition of what's already been said.
[speaker001:] Yes, I think that's right, I think a lot of people question the validity of appraisals, because you shouldn't be learning anything new, you know, should there be an appraisal. You shouldn't be, but that's not my experience. No
[Ray:] Ah, erm, but, do you think that, sorry, do you think the appraisal itself, because it's an annual event, er, some branch managers will get to you with what turns out to be the performance review, and therefore, not doing it during the year, because of the appraisal?
[speaker002:] It's a possibility that some may think that, but I can't believe that with the management skills training that they've received up until, up to that level, that they can still honestly think that's correct. But undoubtedly,
[speaker001:] No, I think, in other cases, they just can't be bothered to give you feedback. Sorry, that's a very negative thing to say, but, But they don't see you as much as his secretary does either do they? They don't have as much to do with you, I mean my branch manager doesn't know what division he's in. But your fresh deputy should be the one who's giving you the feedback, I mean, all the time I was on provisions in my last department, and nobody ever told me how I was doing. Besides, you know, it's too trivial, there's too many important things, like why haven't you got the special offer on display, to even bother to tell why you're not, why you're not performing or if anything isn't going right. And it's so demotivating, like you know, how are supposed to get the best out of your staff if nobody can be bothered to tell you how you're doing?
[speaker002:] That's right, yes.
[Kenny:] That's only like, by they sounds of things, down this way. Up our way, they all give you feedback, like you know, several branches in like, the North, every branch I've been into, there's always been positive feedback, and negative and positive. There's only one branch that I've been and that was Bury.
[speaker002:] Was that all in one district, Kenny, or was it spread across districts?
[Kenny:] Erm, well the North East and all, I found very good, the two York stores, Harrogate and, erm, that's where I've been involved really, and they've all been very good for that.
[speaker002:] Yes, then maybe that's the influence of around the place, the other names. What about?
[speaker001:] You know, my other two other branches were the same, I'm doing a free appointment at, I'm at at the moment, we're supposed to get a two-weekly, when you do a free appointment, they're supposed to sit down with every two weeks and tell you how you're doing. Erm, it took, it took a week and a half before the fresh foods secretary even spoke to me when I went in this place to do the free appointment, nobody's told me how I'm doing, so then what's the point of doing these things if nobody's going give you anything, it's just a waste of time? You need to push for yourself sometimes though. I think a lot of people in a free appointment situation have been stuck like that but you've just got to, squeak and shout out Mm, push for your training, push to be spoken to Oh, yes, but they're going on that's to sake of free, at the moment so the last thing that they're interested in doing is talking to me about if I know what I'm doing. Quite honestly. Does Steve the district manager know about this, because he's dead against all this, he won't have No, he knows, no, no, sorry, he knows, he knows all about it. He's had me there specifically, so I'm just wasting my time. I think it, it depends on the branch. The last branch I was in was very small, and I got a lot of feedback from them. My first department, and I went in and I got a lot of feedback from my deputy, and the branch manager to a certain extent, and I did get it from the district manager as well. They do when they came in, and they want the stall made like this, and they would say, you know, well you know, I'm paying you to finish that off, you know, how, your next, your next priority to do is this, and they eventually told me what they wanted, and you know, you get on with it.
[speaker002:] They started to especially trainee managers, spending periods of time in the smaller branch, and they've got to get on with that concern, but I think there are benefits since they've been doing that. Turning that issue on its head. We're talking about what feedback or the lack of feedback you yourself have received, how do you give feedback to your staff? How do you tell them how well or how badly they're doing?
[speaker001:] Just tell them. If he's got a job there, and he's done it well or he's done it badly, tell him he's done it badly, tell them where they've gone wrong and tell them what they should do to put it right.
[speaker002:] Give us, give an example of that then. Because
[speaker001:] I have, I have one fellah in particular, erm, I'm the meat manager, and he puts the ham away, the mess, every time he does it, so I, I tell him, and I show him how to do it, but still, he consistently does it wrong you know.
[speaker002:] Right, so when you're actually telling him, what do you say?
[speaker001:] I show him, I show him the way I do it, and go through it with him.
[speaker002:] Mhm
[speaker001:] And show him this is the way you should do it. But
[speaker002:] It's still wrong. What about the rest of you, how do you give feedback?
[speaker001:] A daily meeting really.
[speaker002:] A daily meeting? How do they work?
[speaker001:] Yes. The fresh foods manager will walk us round, with the store manager in the morning, and we have er, whatever they say, we have a meeting, and I have feedbacks to start, and I say what I'm happy with and what I'm not. I'm in the bakery so if stuff's rubbish I tell them, if it's good I tell them, and then they say well fine, if, if they have any problems we take it, right or wrong. [sneeze]
[speaker002:] And how does that go down?
[speaker001:] Yes fine, because they can raise any issues.
[speaker002:] On a regular basis. What do the rest of you think about that?
[speaker001:] That perhaps it's easier to do in a smaller department, I mean I've got checkouts, and the majority of my staff are part-time, and I've only got three full-timers, so it's quite often the case that at nine thirty, one thirty, five thirty, eight thirty, it's a case of coming in and then relieving somebody else straight away, you don't necessarily have the time to spend with them.
[speaker002:] How do you do it, how to do you cope with that?
[speaker001:] It's very difficult, because you're, again, I mean, we're saying that we don't get positive feedback, how many of us truthfully give positive feedback through to our staff?
[speaker002:] Go on, raise, let's have a hands, then How many give positive feedback to your staff, do you think?
[speaker001:] Half the time I would say. yes You said that in our newsletter, because our checkout manager said that she's found life extremely difficult with all the changes of shifts, and that in her department they have lots of problems, so she's got like a pro forma checkout news, and she asks them for things that go into this, that they, you know, that they want bringing up, and specific things that they're having difficulty with. I mean she'll put it in the proper procedure, and then she'll put like operator performance and things, that have erm. We have erm, we can't put operator performance any more on our district, because we've just erm, stopped that, it doesn't, you know, they don't apply it to performance any more as far as that goes, but erm, I have got three representation, three representatives, which the checkout people nominated themselves and I have a monthly meeting with those to come up with any problems but it's still, you know, that's tackling one issue. You've still got the problem of addressing praise, because quite often you've only, if you've given somebody a specific task then it's easy to praise or not to praise in that situation, but if they've just come in, done their job and gone home, you know, just sat on a checkout for four hours, right it's my time to leave, then, if they've done nothing out of the blue, extraordinary, so they don't do anything wrong, or, you know. They don't do anything better or worse You know, they just do their job don't they.
[speaker002:] Yes, it's easy to comment on their performance if you've stood by and watched their shift. What about those of you that say, you don't give positive feedback, Alex, I notice you were one?
[Alex:] Well I sometimes do when, er, if, I have a tendency when it's, when it's right to praise instantly when it's right and when it's wrong. You know, when you go straight there, and sometimes you get it, it's not constructive, you know, but if I'm getting jumped on, I tend to perhaps... jump, jump down on the people below me.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[Alex:] Yes, so sometimes it has a tendency to seem like you're blowing hot and cold.
[speaker002:] It's like a kick the cat syndrome, isn't it.
[Alex:] yes, it's sort of like oh, what's his facial expression, oh right, everybody's head down, here he comes.
[speaker002:] yes
[Alex:] Oh, he's got a smile on his face, oh we're alright. Sometimes it's difficult. It all depends on the reaction that you get from your, your boss.
[speaker002:] Your superiors, particularly, yes. They very, erm, can for volunteers, please.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] It's very straightforward. and Rachel, you can say what you want, you like,, hold that. Ian,, okay could you all please just draw a house [clears throat] Rachel, Ian, Gary, Pete, just those four of you, if you just draw a house, please, [clears throat] Just a quick house, it doesn't have to be... a masterpiece.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Right, all finished?
[speaker001:] Yes, there we go. Yes, very nice.
[speaker002:] All finished?... Finished, right?.... That is the crappiest house that I've ever seen. It's just a waste of time.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Now that, that's brilliant. I just think that's brilliant. That's great, thank you very much...., let's have a look at this one. I think that's very good, I particularly like the way you've got the path coming down from it. I think maybe you could do with a little more symmetry, particularly on the roof area, but generally I think that's very good. Thank you.... Right, what happened there, the four of you? How did you feel? How did you feel, Gary?
[Gary:] Well I'm quite honestly.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Gary:] That's all there is, I can't quite work it out. No seriously, you get so much shit at work, if you took it all to heart, you know, you'd just crack up, and the way I deal with stress like, you know, someone's made my day.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Water off a duck's back. Do you think that's the case for all your staff?
[Gary:] Erm, not really, well so,
[speaker001:] sometimes I'd say
[Gary:] Sometimes, yes they'd say.
[speaker002:] It's water off th, their back as well?
[speaker001:] Sometimes, yes, and especially when they're juniors Yes, Tuesdays, the accounts manager, I think if everybody wants to get that reaction, if that's the regular reaction that they get, you know, people dumping on them all the time, it is water off a duck's back, you take it more, you take it more on board if it is an occasional thing,.
[speaker002:] Yes, so they start to become immune to it.
[speaker001:] yes, and this is the problem, yes, it's inconsistent things, it's like regular, it's just expected.
[speaker002:] It's like beating a dog, isn't it? You do it all the time, they're conditioned to it in the end. Do you think it's good that people can get to that stage?
[speaker001:] No, because there's, er, it's only one step away from not carrying out the job at all, when. No, because you expect somebody to take pride in what they do, means the job doesn't get as well then. I just think that even with what you're saying, because, with his, with what, with Gary's own, because they say especially with the students, it's water off a duck's back, but I don't think. I think the students take a real pride in what they're doing, in our place. Certain ones do And they're not just doing it for the money because, you know, if you just sort of give them a mundane task like trolleys for example, they're banging on the door, you know, when can I get off this, when am I going to get some responsibility. I don't want it, I'm not here just to go and collect trolleys for four hours, and the get really pissed off with it. So I'm disagreeing with what you're saying, because you, you're tarring them all with the same brush. I'd like to, I know, that's what I'm saying, you can't generalise like that what was saying completely Yes, I agree Well maybe there's a difference between, I mean are you all in like London then? No Ours don't seem to care about what they do. Your's do? Yes, but that's probably, I mean, I'm trying to instil that it's got to be done right into them. I've had two students and the rest of the stores have had two, alright, that's why I'm, I'm desperate for somebody, and I'll take them. I'll tell you what, they're the best damn students I've ever had. You can't generalise students, because some of our students are excellent. I'm quite happy with mine, they do the business. There's one student in our branch, and she runs the provisions department, in Bolton, yes Who, who said anything management-wise, that had to be done? and she's just a student yes and you do get them, but I understand a lot of them, a majority of them now, er, the university students, or what have you, they don't want to do the overtime, because they've got to study right, they come in, they do the job, and they just don't want any stress. But it's the working with them, you know, you've got to try and work with them, he's got to go round may be every five minutes and make sure they've put it out, otherwise he's going to stand there doing his university work. You know it's, I think in different areas, it's true, it's I think it's completely over the top I did other work, at least
[speaker002:] We've got a lot of different opinions there, I mean from my personal experience when I was a customer sales manager my, my students or particularly some of them, well I would say the brightest kind of people in the branch, and they had the most attention, and it's very easy I think to write them off.
[speaker001:] Yes, yes, they have er, a temporary student, and they asked him to leave us, he's, there's no work for him like. But I've got this other kid, he's twenty eight, and he's absolutely a waste of time, he doesn't know anything about it. I can't do anything with him, yet this other kid's absolutely brilliant, and I think it's a shame that I've had to leave, like let the temps. go, so these plonkers can stop here.
[speaker002:] There is a lot, there is a lot of tension there isn't there? It'll have to be sorted out.
[speaker001:] Yes, there is a lot of tension somewhere. I think that's what it's like on customer services, when I was a trainee I think it's like that with other students as well
[speaker002:] Say that again
[speaker001:] They're always be other students that will always go along, you know, be on the clock
[speaker002:] Mm, how many of you have been students then?
[speaker001:] A lot of them have got, have got some chance, it's obvious, you know you've got to tackle it right. I was No I wasn't I was working at Sainsbury's.
[speaker002:] How, how many have you been students?
[speaker001:] Not for Sainsbury's. Not for Sainsbury's, but
[speaker002:] Well, were you a plonker when you started?
[speaker001:] No,, it's just a but he was, you know, I was fairly slow, and then I went on, I followed erm, I ended up slightly, as well, erm, then I went to college up to the age of eighteen, erm, and as soon as I finished college he made me a department manager. You know, I'd done the section manager part-time, I've done the Saturday's and Sunday's, I've done the share, the fair share of shoving the shit when I had to erm, but, I think you can get a lot of average streams, there is a lot of potential there for one to become a very valued member of staff. Erm,
[speaker002:] The question is, are you tapping that potential?
[speaker001:] Yes, if you can, if you can recognise it, or if you've got, or if, several members of erm, several students we had when I was on grocery at Camden, we had to, I think it was twenty eight on Saturday afternoon, they might have been on checkouts, well I mean, they're still scheduled to my, I'm saying out of that about four of them er, are still working at Camden full-time. They were taken on full-time, they left college, and they want to do whatever they want to do. Erm, one's er controller, another one's er, a senior warehouseman, another one works out the back door, er, the other one's like Gary, he does bread all the time. He's solely responsible for the bread.
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] And it's the section manager, like he does more than the section manager does, because the section manager's a waste of space. I'll admit he does, erm, you do get exceptions, but I think it can come down to your er, the culture, the student culture. I mean if you live in a posh area, er, the student's going to take a pride in what he's done, because you know you can give him it every day of his life, and he, he wants to do something, but he wants to do it himself. Or you get I don't agree, , I don't agree with that, it's a load of bullshit I think the bullshit's yours, it's your, you know, you take somebody on as well. You know, you can take it so many different ways, I mean, I've worked with and I am familiar with them, there is very little it's a real run-down area isn't it, in some respects, and you get twenty shoplifters a day, but my students are brilliant, they take a lot of pride in what they do. I mean it doesn't affect the area, I mean ours did do at branch, our students were erm, I mean they started work in the poultries, and they all had, you know, big cardies, it came from handling. And because they had the money, they weren't interested, a lot of them weren't interested, yes. So that erm, it does you good to have a job, it looks good on a C V, and they would do as little as possible, and if you, if you disciplined them, then one of them says oh well, I'll leave, me dad will give me the money anyway. The dad will just give them the cheque, you know, they've got thirty five pounds, pocket money just for, you know his dad's going to give him the other. Yes, just listen, I can't imagine why you misunderstood what I was trying to say. What I'm trying to say is, everyone joins for their own different reasons, you can't generalise that. That was just one example, like one scenario that might happen. You know, I'm not saying that's the be all and end all, but it's just one different scenario that may happen, like that. I think, students are, Yes, go on It depends some students are good and some students aren't. What happens with a student is they're more likely to take the piss. They're always the ones that are a bit more boisterous, whereas the older ones you have to physically carry on in the shop floor, the students don't, and that's what gives them a bad name. It's to do with their age as well, you know what I mean. They're just growing up you know. People forget that, they're still young people you know. We were there once. They're young and so they've got lots of energy. All the more reason to try and catch them, I think. You can't put an old head on young shoulders, yes?
[speaker002:] That's right,. What about the other through the hat, Ian? How did you feel?
[Ian:] Well it was erm, making me go back to something that goes on in branch all the time. To what I suppose would happen possibly about eighty percent of the time, where you're working, you've worked yourself off to do a superb drawing of a house all day, and er, the branch manager or whoever it may be, is walking round passing quotes, and walks off not really showing any general interest in this superb picture I've just spent all my time doing. But it's erm, I mean, that is something that happens a lot, erm, it just doesn't give you any motivation, it's sort of, you put your pen down, you think well why the hell do I bother, and you go off home thinking, oh well, the end of the day.
[speaker001:] That reminds me of the time at our branch they're doing a visit, and they didn't come down my isle, and they started to walk out, so I said excuse me, have you come to look at my department or not? [LAUGHTER] He comes out, and he, he went down there, and looked out, because we'd spent a lot of time on it, getting it right, and we were well chuffed about it. Erm, and I asked him to stop and come down the isle. He said very nice, as he walked down. But I think he just walked straight down and walked out like, but, it was just an accident.
[speaker002:] At least you made your point.
[speaker001:] yes, we made a point, that everybody should be seen.
[speaker002:] Yes, and then he'll probably remember you for that.
[speaker001:] He, he has a laugh when he comes in now.
[speaker002:] What about the others? Rachel, how did you feel?
[Rachel:] Well it was good feedback, I mean you told me what was good about it, what was bad about it, and, and you gave me constructive criticism as to how it could be better as well.
[speaker002:] Mhm
[Rachel:] You know, perhaps if you straightened up on the side, or made it a bit more symmetrical, so that I know how to improve it next time.
[speaker002:] So, there's something given, that entitles feedback I was giving you then, some people referred to it as this.... The praise sandwich, it's something to try and remember. When you're giving feedback to people, yes, there were going to bad things about what they've done, yes, there's going to be good things, but if you can catch the bad things between two good things, even if the good things are just saying thank you, they're going to go away with a bigger smile on their face, and probably feel more motivated for the next time they do that task.
[speaker001:] That's one skill thought about it, isn't there, there's another idea that doing that is actually, has the opposite effect, but the only, you praise somebody, when you're criticising, you say, well look you've well anyway. You're in danger of every time you're praising that person, they're going to be sitting back waiting for the straight away, so you couldn't, if you go up to somebody and they've generally done a superb job and you can't fault him, and he knows he's done a really good job, but he's just sitting back waiting for you to way what, what you've done wrong. Whereas I mean, [clears throat], if you sort of give the criticism first and say the wrong area is that, and then finish it off with the praise, they know where they stand, and when you come up to them and say you've done a superb job, they're not just sitting back, thinking oh yes, what's coming next.
[speaker002:] Yes, I mean you can alter it around. You could say, well thank you for doing that, erm, there are a couple of things that I'm not happy with, and then put the praise on the end. I think the important thing is not to let them go away thinking, you know, oh, why did I bother, there's obviously no point in carrying on with it. What about, who's the other person?
[Dee:] Are you talking about me.
[speaker001:] Dee
[speaker002:] Dee, how did you, how did that feel, the feedback?
[Dee:] It was alright, but I didn't know why it was good, or whether there was anything I should do better, it was just alright then, that's it, I've done it.
[speaker002:] I think there's a danger that you can go over the top with praise, in that you're anxious to give quality feedback, the thing that you have to be careful with is that it's not just meaningless like that, because that can be just as bad as giving negative feedback. You know, they don't come with any idea of how they've done really. Okay, what I'm going to do now is I'm going to split you in, into groups, I want to split you into two groups, we could have up to you, and the dividing line will be you and then at the back there. This group, I want you to think about a member of staff that you have who is an asset, okay, a good member of staff. This group, the opposite, somebody who's a liability, you may have personal experience of this. Erm, what I'd like both groups to do is, first of all think of words and phrases you'd use to describe that person's performance in a formal scenario, I E in the appraisal, in an interview situation. Secondly what I'd like, want both groups to do is to think how you would describe that person's performance in an informal situation when you're down the met, down the pub with your mates, or you're in the room, speaking to that person. Okay, is everybody clear on that? Right, if this group would like to go syndicate one, and this group to syndicate two, and if you can be back by five to ten minutes.
[speaker001:] Straight after
[speaker002:] Yes, if you, you don't have, do you want to chart it up, or do you want to just feedback to the group?
[speaker001:] Feedback.
[speaker002:] One of you put it down there, no get him to write it up sorry.
[speaker001:] You obviously might just concur with doing some work or something? [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] No, no,
[speaker001:] with wallpaper. It's my wallpaper. Have you got a spare pen please? My pen doesn't work. Have you got a bit more paper?
[speaker002:] yes.
[speaker001:] Thank you very much. [whistling]
[speaker002:] [cough]...
[speaker001:] Hi, Hi, These are the sort of things we'd say to a good person in a formal situation, erm, you're reliable, trustworthy, you know, we can rely on you to do a good job for us, doing your job well and with enthusiasm, when left in charge there's been no problems, you're responsible and flexible, you're conscientious, I can trust you for, to do a good job and thank you for your contribution to the team.
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] And we also talked about maybe you could say, erm, you know, if you continue to do a job, maybe we'll look you know, at developing you further, but it's all sort of, pretty similar sort of things you're going to say to him in that situation. And informal, we came up with a great variety of things. Erm, great job, thanks a lot, unreal, nice one, topper, you're a star, champion, thanks for doing that for me, and this one was a bit disputed, but we had top banana at the end. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Alright, thanks very much. I'm pleased.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Right, what about the liability, the liability? Is this it?
[speaker001:] Doesn't anyone else want to do this? No, we'll leave to you. You go for that person. Alright,
[speaker002:] Erm, hold on, I'll give you some tape...
[speaker001:] , this' ll do darling. thank you, it's little things that Sorry, it's my problem.... Right, that's the other one.
[speaker002:] Right, yes, I'll just move this one out of the way a bit,
[speaker001:] One or two things up....
[speaker002:] Right, this is the liability.
[speaker001:] Er, words and phrases, erm, not an asset, I'm just wondering what the title below that, that one, er, inflexible, flexible, [LAUGHTER] I think it says demotivating. Oh right, I that that said, I thought that was another D, it couldn't be, demotivated, erm, you're too set in your ways, lack of detail, lack of commitment, irresponsible, is that, yes, lack of respect for your superiors, erm, disillusioned, you know, we er, we were going to put down things like er, mentally challenged, and things like that, but it didn't go down too well. Right, this is the easy one. [clears throat], I mean it's a lot easier to think of these things than it is for the other one, er, you would say, that was actually lazy bastard, but we didn't want to offend anybody, er, useless git, [LAUGHTER] Er, there was a great dispute about what this one could have been, I mean this, what the scenario's wide, but I think we'll settle for waste of space. Erm, taking the mick, she's winding me up, thick as shit, obnoxious twat, [LAUGHTER] I wished they'd er, fuck off [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Leave the company?
[speaker001:] yes, so, erm, if only they would resign, er, need a kick up the arse, [LAUGHTER] You're a pain in the arse. Yes, [LAUGHTER], but that's, that's the year before, okay.
[speaker002:] Thank you very much, thank you.... Okay, let's have a closer look at these,... Right, just, read a few of those words there, why do you think have a ring around some of those words? What is it about them? Specifically?
[speaker001:] Are they in areas? They're key words in anyone's er, response.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] They're descriptive of their erm,
[speaker002:] They're descriptive, any other ideas why I might have rung them, erm, ringed them?
[speaker001:] You should set standards by them as well.
[speaker002:] Okay, yes,
[speaker001:] You can tell them in person what they are.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] It's what you judge them by, if you set performance.
[speaker002:] Okay, any other ideas?... Okay, if I say to somebody, erm, Alex, you're very responsible, okay, Karen I think you're very flexible, erm, Tony, you're very, erm, very reliable,, I mean, in is, in isolation, what do they, do they mean anything?
[speaker001:] No, Not really, No
[speaker002:] So we think of them as being descriptive, but in reality, if you're going to say to somebody, you're very responsible, they're probably not going to know what you mean, unless you come up with a few examples of what you're talking about, of how they've demonstrated that type of behaviour. Similar things like inflexible,... okay, let's take another look at some of these words, it's not so much of this where they're an asset,..., now I would imagine, that some of these as well as being things possibly you'd say to your, your colleagues when you're down the pub talking about your staff. Occasionally, is anyone going to own up to ever having said that to somebody?
[speaker001:] Yes
[speaker002:] Yes, we've all actually said this to their face.
[speaker001:] And all the rest.
[speaker002:] And all the rest, okay.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Now bearing in mind what we talked about yesterday, why did those comments be potentially damaging, apart from the fact that they're extremely insulting?
[speaker001:] Because they're not constructively criticising them are they? They're just insulting them
[speaker002:] Yes, they're insulting
[speaker001:] The, they're resulting in a negative action, reaction from the person that they are addressing.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] And yet, when you've tried all the rest, it comes down to this, and it makes you feel better anyway, but it's the last resort
[speaker002:] ,... it's a last resort. One thing, yesterday, we were talking about my wonderful stick man,... here he is basically made up of his personality, a number of attitudes and outward behaviour. What did those comments get at?. What did they refer to?
[speaker001:] The person, his personality.
[speaker002:] Yes, they, they're talking about that person's personality, and their personality is not something they can change.
[speaker001:] No
[speaker002:] So basically if you're going to se, tell somebody they're a waste of space, it's not very constructive, it's personal, and I wouldn't say it unless you can tell them why you think they're a waste of space at least.
[speaker001:] I can. This is, er, this is the same face as you, yesterday I was on about, we've tried everything, it's getting down to that now. yes, but it's not working either
[speaker002:] It's just a shame that you've got to
[speaker001:] yes for the time being. You should only criticise when you're Well he, he turns round when he wants to be screamed at, he's asked us to hit him. But you've decided why you, you're just rising to the bait then aren't you, if these arguments are between you, and you're coming out with all this, it just makes you look stupid because you're, you're into, aren't you? I say, Carl, I think he needs to see
[speaker002:] So he was really good, and now he's, he's gone bad now, and you're using things like this to say to him.
[speaker001:] He, he's trying to make, he, he's making him, you aggressive isn't he and I would say that he's just thinking it's low if I'm going and this guy because, you know Yes, yes, I've said, I've said this, yes,... why [tape change]
[speaker002:] Things like that are not constructive at all, I mean I know you must get to the stage with some members of staff where you think oh, what else can I do, but
[speaker001:] Yes, but there's no point you doing it that because it's like, if they are a waste of space you're not going to be able to get rid of them because you've told them that they're a waste of space, it needs to be something that's much more positive, than just going round saying that. This is it, I've tried, this is why I've not talked to somebody else about it, because nobody else is listening. And it explains to them why has come out screaming at them and screaming abuse at them.
[speaker002:] I think that there's something that needs to be addressed there.
[speaker001:] It does doesn't it? I think it needs more time round here, that's Yes Sorry, again? If you had more time round, you'd use that sort of language with themselves. You know.
[speaker002:] Yes, I think that, particularly, that sounds particularly what you want then.... That is, those types of things are getting at somebody's personality, and they're not constructive. If you're going to criticise somebody what I would say is, talk about their behaviour, because that's something that they can change, talk about it in those terms. Right. I'm going to show you a video now. Erm, how many of you went on the basic management skills course? Yes, most of you. Do you remember the videos, the unorganised manager? The ones with the job Right, well this is part three in that series, and I would like you to do one of, I'd like you two things while you're watching it. Firstly, make a note of all of the bully words and phrases that James Bolham uses when he's talking about, or talking to, or talking about this man's management. Okay, bully things, possibly in, in isolation don't mean very much, put them over there. Secondly, I'd like you to identify the three members of management that he's dealing with, are called Barbara, oh God, what are they called, Barbara, Ted and Doughnut. That's to see if you can identify what the problems are with each of those three, and why they're experiencing difficulties in their job. okay. I don't think I've ever the furniture. I think we might need the blinds down for this, otherwise it's going to glare on the screen. So... [loud grinding noise for about a minute]
[speaker001:] a problem.
[speaker002:] Thank you for all the effort to put the blinds down very much.
[speaker001:] , only trouble on it, when it. [music plays introduction] Yes the erm, the Celestial Times Colour Supplement Yes I don't talk to the press much I'm afraid. Well if you could spare us a few moments, we'd be most grateful, your, it's for a new series we're contemplating, A Day in the Afterlife. I see. I tell you what, I'll, do sit down, so erm, you want to give people some idea of my jobshare as gate-keeper? Exactly. Yes, well I'm a kind of glorified immigration officer really. You mean, keeping all the rotters out? The rotters, the cads, the bounders, the bad-hats, exactly, yes. It's my job to weed out the black sheep really, it's pretty straight forward. But you must get borderline cases from time to time. Grey sheep as it were, where you have to exercise your powers of discretion? Very occasionally, yes. We get the odd mis-routing, there was a chap recently, er, should, you know, where, the truth is, he was a technical sinner, not a real baddie, so I decided to stretch a point, and send him back down again to try and teach him where he went wrong. What was his name? Lucan. Really? No, no, Lupin, no, no, not Lucifer, but like that. Luther? Lewis, Richard Lewis. God if ever there was an unorganised manager, there he is, never sorted out his priorities, couldn't delegate to save his life, never had time for anything,
[speaker002:] Tomorrow, Jimmy I can't do everything.
[speaker001:] In the end of course, he snapped, gave himself an early coronary.
[speaker002:] Mr. Taylor, erm, Mr. Taylor,
[speaker001:] So anyway, I er, I decided to give him a second chance, so I explained calmly, and with grim patience,
[speaker002:] [shouting] of course it is, but we've got to plan it and take it to, I mean []
[speaker001:] But what he'd got to do was to plan his time, and work out his priorities, by distinguishing between those tasks that are urgent and those tasks that are important. And then to organise his schedule accordingly, by allowing time for both active and reactive tasks. You will get that won't you? Urgent and important, active and reactive. It took a little time, but er, eventually he got it, and now I'm delighted to say he's one of the most organised managers on earth. See that, a model manager. These pictures are live by satellite, incidentally.
[speaker002:] There we are Maggie, the morning's correspondence.... Nine twenty five.... Ring Philip and B T, not that there's been any problems. Ah, Mr., Richard Lewis here, Barker and Gibbs Catering, we spoke yesterday.
[speaker001:] It's amazing, he's a different man. I'm rather proud of it, yes, I think you can take it from me, Richard Lewis is one earthly executive we will be seeing up here.... Now, er, tea? Coffee? Nectar? Nectar please, very dry.
[speaker002:] That's fine then Mr., many thanks indeed, bye. Oh, that all seems to be going swimmingly. Now, in a couple of minutes it'll be time for... the district managers....
[Kenny:] Martin, Bernard here. Well how much are they asking?... For an extra two hours' shift,... well I suppose we can just afford it, can we? Er, okay then Martin, I imagine as long as we keep our heads above water, then that'll be okay....
[Heidi:] A couple of?
[Kenny:] I don't think so Barbara, it's a bit difficult to tell isn't it?
[Heidi:] It's unfair, Bernard, you've been in this job much longer than me, what do you think about this new menu for the canteen at Digby's Ballbearings?
[Kenny:] Crunchy nut salad,t, what's tortellini?
[Heidi:] Pasta, stuffed with spinach and cheese, spinach is full of iron you know.
[Kenny:] Yes, wouldn't bangers and mash be a bit more
[Heidi:] But Bernard, sausages are full of preservatives, pork takes longer to digest than any other meat, and potatoes are ninety percent water.
[Ray:] Morning all. Morning Maggie.
[speaker001:] Nice to see you, you're working today are you?
[Kenny:] It's Tuesday, I thought Tuesday was golf, or is that just Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
[Ray:] No Friday's is gloating about my profits. How are yours by the way?
[Kenny:] Mm
[Heidi:] Erm, I'm tired, Tony, sorry. Erm, I was up half the night typing this stupid report.
[Ray:] Half the night?
[Kenny:] Report, what report?
[Ray:] I did mine when I came in this morning.
[Heidi:] Is that all?
[Ray:] What are you talking about?
[Heidi:] The report on the projected sales for the next quarter, he asked for it at the last meeting, it's okay.
[Kenny:] But he didn't want that today, surely?
[speaker001:] It's nine thirty, Mr. Lewis will see you now.
[speaker002:] Right, that's the end of that then, so let's move on to the projected sales reports I asked for last time...., there we are,
[Heidi:] There we are Mr. Lewis.
[speaker002:] What the hell's this?
[Heidi:] My report.
[speaker002:] I meant a summary, not War and Peace.
[Heidi:] Well you never said how long you,
[speaker002:] Barbara, really
[Heidi:] I, I was up till one putting that together.
[speaker002:] I can well believe it, it's a wonder your typewriter didn't get a hernia. I'm sorry Barbara, but time's a budget item with me these days, I can't wade through all this. Just summarise it, two pages is enough, here look like Tony's, he knew what I wanted.
[Ray:] Lucky guess, really.
[speaker002:] Bernard, I don't seem to have yours here.
[Kenny:] Yes, I'm afraid I haven't done it yet Mr. Lewis.
[speaker002:] Haven't done it, but I told you I wanted it today.
[Kenny:] No you didn't, you said you wanted it as soon as possible, and so far, I'm afraid, it just hasn't been possible.
[speaker002:] Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
[Kenny:] I'll try and get round to it first thing in the morning.
[speaker002:] Well do will you, this is putting my system right out of gear. Now look everyone, I'll come straight to the point, a lot of things simply aren't good enough. I couldn't believe last month's figures when they came in. Well look at them, just look at them, I think they speak for themselves, don't they? And one of you I'm particularly disappointed in at the moment, I don't want to name any names because I don't think it's right to embarrass her in front of the others,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] But in general there's a lot of room for improvement all round, all except Tony, it's good work. But for God's sake, buck your ideas up. Now then, that new vending machine I told you about last time. Here's the literature on it, and I want a big Autumn push on this one, it's a high profit item for us.
[Ray:] How many orders are you hoping for, ideally?
[speaker002:] As many as you can get.
[Ray:] Ah, I've got you, when do you expect them in by?
[speaker002:] As soon as possible,
[Ray:] B, yes, but
[speaker002:] Oh, for goodness sake, just use your common sense, will you all of you. I think you expect me to spell everything out, oh, just hang on for a moment will you Barbara, fine. Thank you Tony. Er, now look Barbara, I know you haven't been in the job as long as the other two, but er, really you're going to have to do better than this I'm afraid. I think you know what I'm talking about don't you?
[Heidi:] Er, yes, of course Mr. Lewis.
[speaker002:] People just aren't very happy with the type of food you're serving Barbara.
[Heidi:] Oh I see, oh right, Mr. Lewis.
[speaker002:] These people want something satisfying, so you will try and do something about it won't you?
[Heidi:] Yes, of course, I understand Mr. Lewis.
[speaker002:] Right then, off you go then, it's my head that's on the chopping block so you pull your socks up eh.
[Heidi:] Have you time to,
[speaker002:] Idiot [phone rings] Richard Lewis, oh yes Sir, er, yes Sir, I've just seen the figures, I've been talking to them about it, oh yes, I've told them exactly what's wrong, but they don't seem able to... well yes Sir, I know it's not good enough, but what can you do if you've got idiots working for yo, what's that,... oh no Sir, I'm not asking you,... what, hello. Oh damn, oh that's really great, I get the blame for these pompous, fat- headed morons, well I'll tell them, the next time I'll really tell them.
[speaker001:] And what first interest did your gatekeeping, your? Well er, oh, manner Yes. Do you know the story of the keys? No Well it, it's quite a long one, but you might be able to make something of it, erm, there was this rock and erm
[speaker002:] Well I'll them, the next time I'll really tell them
[speaker001:] Do you You mean what on earth, is he supposed to be doing that? I mean, is it a new management technique or something? No, no, I, I think he's having er, another erm, excuse me. [door bell] Shan't be a moment.... Front door please....
[speaker002:] Oh my God.
[speaker001:] No only his personnel manager, are you alright?
[speaker002:] Saint Peter?
[speaker001:] Are you alright?
[speaker002:] Yes, no, it just isn't fair. They don't listen, and I get the blame. I mean I keep on tell
[speaker001:] Keep it short, I'm doing an interview.
[speaker002:] It's a long story,
[speaker001:] Urgent or important?
[speaker002:] What? Oh, but.
[speaker001:] Well you'd better get in, you can tell me on the way up.
[speaker002:] Mm?
[speaker001:] Well?
[speaker002:] I always get the blame, I'll be back in intensive care again at this rate, you mark my words, you should see the shambles they make of everything I ask them to do.
[speaker001:] Miss Angel of, here's Mr. Richard Lewis, How do you do? You will recall, no doubt, er, Mr. Lewis was, oh [video turned off]
[speaker002:] Right, if those of you sitting at the sides could stand up, move your chairs to the side please, and move the tables out as well. Thank you. And then come round and stand in the middle please.
[speaker001:] , [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] If you'd all like to come and stand in the middle,... yes
[speaker001:] After all these erm, can I come round there?
[speaker002:] Right, we're going to have an exercise in giving each other positive feedback. The way we're going to do this, I'll kick it off, I'll be standing in here, and, and I'll do a little act, okay? Now this act can take any form you like, I could go... or I can go... right, then I'll go like this, and I want you all give me a great big round of applause. Okay. As enthusiastic as possible. Then, I will say, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to present to you, and I'll choose somebody else, and the next person comes out and does an act, and then introduces the next person, okay. And I want a lot of applause. I want really loud applause, okay.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Right, okay
[speaker001:] Yes, alright, don't get too carried away. [clapping],
[speaker002:] Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to present to you the one, the only Anthony.
[speaker001:] [clapping]... [clapping]
[Alex:] , Tony,
[speaker001:] [clapping] Sean, Sean... Thank you [clapping] I'd like to present to you Alex.... [LAUGHTER] [clapping]
[Alex:] , Claire
[speaker001:] [clapping]..., [clapping], Stephen,... Stephen
[Alex:] I didn't hear my name, sorry....
[speaker001:] [clapping]
[Alex:] Introducing the one, the only Gerard
[speaker001:] [clapping] What are we supposed to do? [LAUGHTER] I mean, there's lots of sets of playing cards, alright, you've just got to do an action?
[speaker002:] A little action, yes.
[speaker001:] A handstand
[speaker002:] And we'll give you a round of applause.
[speaker001:] oh, oh, you've got to complete it. Anything, anything. [clapping], Er, [clapping]... [clapping] Introducing the one and only Michael. [LAUGHTER] I give to you Helen... [clapping]... [clapping] , [clapping]... [LAUGHTER], [clapping]... [clapping]... [LAUGHTER], [clapping], John,... [LAUGHTER] [clapping],... [LAUGHTER],... [clapping] I introduce to you,... That's it. [clapping]... Sophie... [LAUGHTER],
[speaker002:] I feel Sophie, this is actually great.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]... [clapping].
[speaker002:] Right, so if you'd like to pull your tables back in and sit, resume your seats please. Okay then, back to the video we were looking at before break. You erm, very accurately analysed what the problems where with Barbara, who didn't know her job, didn't know who her customers were etcetera, Bernard and Tony. Now I'm sure you can relate this to people that work with you, or the situation that you yourself have come across, how would you go about, first of all with Barbara, how you can improve the situation?
[speaker001:] I thought that's all been, you know, Why?
[speaker002:] Why not? Why not,, say Barbara, what would you do with Barbara?...
[speaker001:] Sit her down and tell her exactly what her job is, set the targets and what you expect her to achieve.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And explain to her that although she did a good job with the Board of Directors, but erm, the ballbearings people wanted something different.
[speaker002:] Okay, so it's the idea, Barbara,... sit her down, and explain what the job is. How does Sainsbury's, I mean, what do we have that covers that action?
[speaker001:] The job description.
[speaker002:] The job description, do you think that's a valid way of doing it?
[speaker001:] No It's a bit formal, isn't it.
[speaker002:] It's a bit formal, right so let me see.
[speaker001:] No, but possibly you could sit down together and go through it. Your job description covers a multitude, and the fact that it frames the needs of the business, doesn't it?
[speaker002:] yes, that's it.
[speaker001:] That's the catchword, isn't it.
[speaker002:] So possibly go through the job description together.
[speaker001:] For the staff, we've got those checklists haven't we?
[speaker002:] Right, how do they work?
[speaker001:] Well it's like erm, the store instructors are supposed have trained them on those specific things,
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] And they, it basically says, there's erm, replenish, or rotate stock, and they sort of tick or sign to say that they've done it.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] But erm, sometimes they haven't covered it completely, or don't understand it, they've just ticked it, and signed it to say that they know what they're doing.
[speaker002:] Okay, so you go into that in a lot more, in a lot more detail. Right so first, you'd sit her down, and you go through the job description perhaps, what about an on-going basis?
[speaker001:] I think maybe at first she should have a morning meeting, or a weekly meeting, to discuss the menus for the following week.
[speaker002:] Okay
[speaker001:] And perhaps
[speaker002:] Meetings on a regular basis.
[speaker001:] Try and encourage her [clears throat], excuse me, try and encourage her to come and see you whenever she's got a problem. Over a period of time, it's the meetings to begin with, but if you could then reach a stage where she could sort most problems out herself and only came to you when necessary.
[speaker002:] Okay, so that's offering support, if you need a hand at the moment?... Alright then, what about Bernard? What would you do with him? He already knows his job, to an extent...
[speaker001:] You've got to set him targets, you know specific targets and deadlines and things.
[speaker002:] Right, now, do you mean targets, or do you mean standards, when you say targets?
[speaker001:] Well, I suppose it's standards. He's got to know the company targets
[speaker002:] Right
[speaker001:] In order to do his job.
[speaker002:] Okay, so you would make sure he knew that. I mean, I think there's, there's basically a difference between standards and targets, can anybody explain what that is?
[speaker001:] Standards are the minimum acceptable, and the target's what you want to achieve.
[speaker002:] Right, so, when you set a standard, is that to one person or for everybody?
[speaker001:] Everybody
[speaker002:] Okay, does everybody agree with that, or not?
[speaker001:] yes
[speaker002:] Yes, and a target, where does that come? If the standard's there, where does the target come?
[speaker001:] Above it.
[speaker002:] Above it, yes, okay. So Bernard really needs to be what the company has in mind. I mean they were talking on the video about profit margins, but he didn't company he was supposed to achieve, presumably there was a minimum for all three of them, so... What else would you do with Bernard? I mean he's fairly lacking in confidence and whatever?
[speaker001:] Tell him the bits that he does do right.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] There must be something.
[speaker002:] Pardon?
[speaker001:] There must be something.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER], so it's praise they're due?..., Was that it for Bernard or is there anything else?
[speaker001:] He needs time skills as well, instead of just doing things as soon as possible because you get to the things that become more pressing take over,
[speaker002:] yes
[speaker001:] and you're just fighting, but he needs time skills in which to do things.
[speaker002:] Mm, Okay... Okay, what about Tony then? Has anybody got a Tony?...
[speaker001:] I did have.
[speaker002:] You did have, what happened to him? Or what was, what was the scenario?
[speaker001:] It's er, section manager at erm, a couple of years, but erm, well for the job, very well educated. Erm, all I can say from his view point, erm, totally bored, nothing to, educated. Erm, all he needs time skills indy?
[speaker002:] Mm
[speaker001:] He was practically running the department while I was working on the store for him, and he's ready for further things than that,
[speaker002:] I see
[speaker001:] Before he was very, very bored, no challenges for him, nothing to do, erm, this guy's been at director level, er, trouble-shooting for large abattoirs, going in and sorting problems out, and picking them off the ground, so he's had loads of challenges, erm, the company's just so slow for him. Erm, and now we're trying to side-track into, just pile everything on to him, he loves it, he thinks it's wonderful.
[speaker002:] Yes, anybody
[speaker001:] And he's sort of picked himself up now, and he's more, where I'm getting involved.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER], you've got your job. Anybody else?
[speaker001:] Yes, I've got a price controller that she, erm, can do her job in eight, nine hours, and it's all she wants to do. If you give her anything else, she can do that as well, she tries not to get involved, but I try to keep giving her more, so she's not getting bored with the job.
[speaker002:] How's that working out?
[speaker001:] Fine, she always manages to do it, she complains at first that she's got too much to do, but she always gets in done in time, as well as her own work.
[speaker002:] Which works out for both of you. What about any, anybody else had anything like that?
[speaker001:] Yes, I've got a guy in, well I've got a couple of people on the shift, and er, the more you give them to do, they just love it, but the thing about it is, I think the mistake that I certainly make from time to time, is the more you give them to do, you've sort of erm, taken something from somebody else, and then it, it's trying to keep that erm, trying to keep that more level, and fairness to everybody. Oh, yes,, I've got a supervisor at, who talks, she used to forty cases, and now she does sixty, seventy cases, excellent. But, Debbie was just getting to the stage where she was just to same on the shift, erm, but yes, you need, like,th, the, you get certain people that, they just need the challenge, but then you can find yourself erm, getting into a situation where you're giving them those extra things to do but you're taking them away from somebody else, so they're like just going into the background, you know.
[speaker002:] How does it, I mean, has that, have any of the other people on your shift had a bad reaction to that?
[speaker001:] No
[speaker002:] They haven't?
[speaker001:] No, no, they're not complaining because they're getting an easy time, er, I mean, I've got a couple like that as well. And if er, I mean one of these girls is worth maybe three others, you know, they're all erm, they'll, and still clear the shopfloor, get them downstairs, and sweep up for you in say, four hours, and one person does that while the rest. You know and he's, just the, you know, you can, you can really turn it around. But er, the job's just what he sees, they're just not bothered. They, they'll do their part, they see that part as their responsibility, as er, the rule, restocking the wares when I first went there, now they'll do, like more than one isle per night each, and get away with, when I first went there, we used ten people a night. And now we get away with five or six.
[speaker002:] Mm, gosh.
[speaker001:] You know, er, and we're still achieving the same job at a lot higher standard.
[speaker002:] Which is great.
[speaker001:] Yes, because you know, erm, we still save money on labour costs, erm, but there again when you get, when people do go sick, it's er, it's quite detrimental, so everyone's having to work even harder. You go on a management scheme, it cut's back your headcount even more, you know.
[speaker002:] If you show what you can do with less, you er,
[speaker001:] Yes, you know,y, you get penalised for it.
[speaker002:] Yes, nasty. Anybody else? Have an experience with a high flyer? Anybody been in our situation themselves?...
[speaker001:] I once worked in the shopfloor in a factory, putting cream on to cream cakes, when I finished college, and they took me out and put me in the lab even though I didn't have any science degree, and I was in the labs for three months.
[speaker002:] How did they, how did they identify that then?
[speaker001:] Well they knew that I was a graduate in erm, they had two, they had a, a lab manager and an assistant, and they both went sick at the same time, and er, they asked me if I'd do it. They told me it was just like following recipes, and it was so I did. It was more interesting that doing this stuff to all the cream cakes. It's probably a similar situation at er, the last company I worked for, used to have me, me lunch hour, I used to go down the swimming baths and do two and half hours there. The job was still done in daylight hours, but you took an hour and half out every day like, but that's...
[speaker002:] But that was, you weren't really being challenged there, were you?
[speaker001:] No
[speaker002:] No, okay, well, I'll put on erm, part four of the video now, of this same unorganised manager, and you can see how Richard Lewis went about trying to solve the problems of his managers, and see if you agree with them or not as the case may be. I'm afraid I'm going to put the blinds down again, or do you think?... I do apologise for this noise.... [music] Start at the end.
[speaker001:] No it's too late for that now, we'll have to start at the beginning. So, er, you can organise yourself, but you can't organise other people, right?
[speaker002:] Yes, but why can't they organise themselves?
[speaker001:] Because it's your responsibility
[speaker002:] I mean they're so useless, why don't you bring them up here and grill them too?
[speaker001:] We don't grill up here, they look after that in the basement as you'll probably soon discover, unless of course you go to the lower basement.
[speaker002:] Lower basement?
[speaker001:] Yes, the basement is for those who fail, the lower basement is for those failures who blame their failure on their supporters.... So let's take a look at your three district managers. Three people, each representing a particular failure of yours. First of all, let's look at Barbara, who doesn't understand what she's supposed to be doing, because you've failed to tell her clearly what her responsibilities are. Then there's Bernard, who doesn't know how well he's supposed to be doing because you failed to give him standards of performance that he could measure his efforts by. And finally, there's Tony, who's wasting a lot of his time because you haven't giving him enough targets to keep him interested and to develop his potential, and to get the best out of him. Three failures, therefore, right, to clarify responsibilities, to set standards, and to agree targets.
[speaker002:] But it's not all my fault.
[speaker001:] Yes, could you say that just a little louder, I'm not sure that they caught it down in the lower basement. Now, let's start with your first problem., [shouting] Well done [], he's right, no you weren't, I was just calling an order down to the lower basement.
[speaker002:] Er, no, not Barbara. Erm, failure to clarify Barbara's [thunder crashing]
[speaker001:] The first thing you've got to do with your subordinate, is to tell them what their job is.
[speaker002:] They know that.
[speaker001:] Oh really?
[speaker002:] Well they're not missionaries are they, or tail gunners, they're district managers in a catering company.
[speaker001:] Look Tony and Bernard may have found out what their job is the hard way, but Barbara certainly know.
[speaker002:] But what does she think it is then?
[speaker001:] Why don't we find out.
[Heidi:] You see I'm what's called a district manager.
[speaker001:] What's that involve?
[Heidi:] Well I'm a sort of ideas woman, and er, advisor, primarily to a series of canteens. My job is to use my knowledge and experience of catering to make sure that the meals are exciting, varied enough, and above all they're nutritionally balanced, high protein, low carbohydrate, plenty of fibre, and the key vitamins and minerals. It's quite a challenge really.
[speaker001:] Well do you agree with her description of the job.
[speaker002:] I, I,
[speaker001:] Well how is she supposed to find out from you what her job is, tarot cards, reading the leaves in your empty tea cups, extra-sensory perception? Waiter, take her, her away. How about telling her, and when you do tell her, start at the very beginning. Remember this, your purpose you toyed executive, is to provide quality food at prices your clients can afford, while maximising your profit margin, am I correct?
[speaker002:] Well if you put it like that, yes, that is the company's purpose.
[speaker001:] Therefore it's yours. There, that's always with you. Simple isn't it? So, what is Barbara there for.
[speaker002:] About another twenty four hours if she doesn't buck her ideas up.
[speaker001:] [shouting] Over done with tea sauce [] Now have ever actually told her what her job is.
[speaker002:] A thousand times, I told her half an hour ago.
[speaker001:] Did you? Well I think we should take another look at what you actually said this time with subtitles for those poor people who aren't telepathic.
[speaker002:] Erm, now Barbara, I know you haven't been in the job as long as the other two, but er, really you've got to do better than this I'm afraid. I think you know what I'm talking about don't you, I mean it's not as if you're totally new to the business?
[Heidi:] No, er,ye, yes of course.
[speaker001:] People just aren't happy with the type of food you're serving Barbara.
[Heidi:] But, oh, I see, oh right Mr. Lewis.
[speaker002:] These people want something satisfying, so you will try and do something about it won't you?
[Heidi:] Yes, of course, I understand Mr. Lewis.
[speaker002:] She didn't quite get my drift did she?
[speaker001:] Not terribly no, so, you must define for her clearly what her responsibilities are. What are they?
[speaker002:] To see that each of her catering units operates to the highest standard possible while balancing our clients' requirements against profitability with due regard to company policy.
[speaker001:] Good, then you must make her responsibilities even clearer, by defining key areas where she is to get a result.
[speaker002:] Well that's not so easy.
[speaker001:] No I thought it might not be, let's put it another way. What are the principle areas in which your district managers can cock things up.
[speaker002:] Oh, don't get me on to that one. Overspending, complaints from customers, failure of public health inspection.
[speaker001:] Alright, that's three for a start.
[speaker002:] Three what?
[speaker001:] Three key areas where you can establish if you need decent results. Budget control, customer satisfaction and hygiene. Now, do those define the job fully?
[speaker002:] No
[speaker001:] Go on then.
[speaker002:] Well there's profitability, new business.
[speaker001:] Two more to use on areas, now would you like to tell some of this to Barbara?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Tomorrow morning, nine thirty?
[speaker002:] Okay....
[Heidi:] But I thought I was promoted because everyone was going on about my originality. I thought you wanted the same approach.
[speaker002:] Well that's my fault for not making your new job clearer. That was great when you were a unit manager for a Directors' Boardroom, but it's not right now for a work's canteen.
[Heidi:] Oh
[speaker002:] You see your canteen takings have dropped by nearly twenty percent over the last two months.
[Heidi:] Have they?
[speaker002:] Well you should know that?
[Heidi:] Should I? I thought that if people were unhappy
[speaker002:] It's one of your principle responsibilities, how many times have I told you? [thunder claps] I er, look, erm, what I should have done is clarify what you're doing here. Now, I wrote this out.
[Heidi:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Yes, and I've broken it up into parts, I'll be doing the same with Bernard and Tony, incidentally.
[Heidi:] Key areas.
[speaker002:] Right, they're the make or break areas which comprise your job. Now I'd like to go through each of them with you now and then again in two weeks' time, and hear any suggestions you may have.
[Heidi:] Oh right.
[speaker001:] So the first lesson in organising your staff successfully is to define their responsibilities, tell them what they're there for. Then, establish the key area in which the person doing that job must achieve results, and review them regularly to make sure your employee always has the same view of the job as you do....
[speaker002:] Well that'll help me with Barbara, but it doesn't solve Bernard's problem. He knows what his responsibilities are, but he doesn't get decent results.
[speaker001:] Well how do you expect Bernard results if you don't tell him which results are decent?
[speaker002:] Come again?
[speaker001:] Alright, we've dealt with responsibilities, lesson two, standards. [thunder claps]
[speaker002:] Ah, ha, I'm a stickler for standards.
[speaker001:] Are you?
[speaker002:] Oh yes, every month I call him into the office and I say, it still isn't good enough, pull your socks up.
[speaker001:] How far?
[speaker002:] I'm sorry?
[speaker001:] How far do you tell Bernard to pull his socks up, an inch, three inches, a foot?
[speaker002:] I don't understand.
[speaker001:] Well it's not good enough, you're not doing your job properly.
[speaker002:] I know, well
[speaker001:] You've got to do better.
[speaker002:] But how?
[speaker001:] By bucking your ideas up, by getting a grip on yourself, above all, by pulling your socks up.
[speaker002:] But how?
[speaker001:] Exactly. All those phrases, useless. Woolly management of the worst kind. Er, a substitute for thought and no help to anyone. No look, every employee needs to be set standards of achievement below which he must not fall. Now these standards need to be visible, common to everyone in the same job, and fixed, er, like a yardstick, by which the employee can measure his activities for himself. If you don't give him a yardstick, you get this. We're talking about a complete refit really. Replace cookers, instal new deep freeze units, streamline all the worksurfaces, here you are, you won't get it done any cheaper than that I can promise you. My God, will it really cost this much? Listen, I'm doing you a favour. I've got to be so careful, that's the trouble, I never know when my boss is suddenly going to bite my head off. Still, I think we're making enough to cover it. You see, the poor didn't know whether he could afford the contract or not. He's having to operate on guesswork.
[speaker002:] Guesswork.
[speaker001:] Yes, erm, do you remember that report your staff handed in this morning?
[Heidi:] There you are Mr. Lewis.
[speaker002:] Thanks, what the hell's this?
[Heidi:] It's my report.
[speaker002:] I meant a summary not War and Peace, just two pages. Here look like Tony's, he knew what I wanted.
[speaker001:] If you only wanted two pages you should have said so, you could have said something like... I only want two pages. It's not difficult.
[speaker002:] Oh erm, Bernard, I don't seem to have yours here.
[Kenny:] I'm afraid I haven't done it yet Mr. Lewis.
[speaker002:] Haven't done it, but I told you I wanted it in today.
[Kenny:] No you didn't, you just said you wanted it as soon as possible, and so far I'm afraid it just hasn't been possible.
[speaker001:] If you wanted the report handed in by a certain day, why didn't you say so? I mean if you'd set precise standards in the first place, you wouldn't have caused all that confusion.
[speaker002:] So what is a standard then?
[speaker001:] A standard is quite simply a measurement, imposed by you on your staff, that tells them exactly what's expected of them. It enables your staff to know themselves how well they're doing their job, and if they're keeping up to the mark. It helps them.
[speaker002:] I've heard the theory but you can't actually set measurable standards in all the jobs can you?
[speaker001:] If you think about it, you'll find you can.... Well, we may not have enough time for that, so erm, let's imagine that you're a sales director, and, now this is more difficult. Let's imagine that you're an effective one. Now these are the minimum standards we expect from our salesmen. No fewer than ten cold calls each month, all cold call reports must be filed within seven working days of a visit, and a minimum of eighty calls to be made per month to existing customers. Mm?
[speaker002:] Oh I see, I am laying down precise quotas so my staff can see at once if things aren't up to scratch.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Ah, but sales is easy.
[speaker001:] Alright, you're a production manager. Right so we've agreed on a maximum of sixteen and three quarter percent paper wastage, three hours setting up time, and er, four and half hours printing.
[speaker002:] Well alright, but sales and production are easily quantified, you can't have measurable standards for everything.
[speaker001:] You can. You'll find everything is measurable in terms of one or more of these four factors. Quality, quantity, time, cost.
[speaker002:] Everything?