[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] Erm yeah I thought it was very good. Very, very relaxed, very natural... erm went through the, the procedure. Erm it was, it was good. The greetings, we look at each part, the greetings and er appropriate sociability, that was good... didn't go on too long, friendly, two way, wasn't all one, one sided.... Erm you gave your business card, sorry you gave your buyer's guide first... and Steve raised an objection then about do you find it a problem only... selling for one company
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Robert:] you, you gave him an answer... but it, it didn't really I don't think sort of
[Bill:] No.
[Robert:] in all honesty ans answer what he said, you more or less made a statement and said... yes I am er but I, I know all about the products and I'll give you best advice. I think you could've, you could've apacked that a bit, a bit more, to put in the er words of the day, to find out you know what was worrying him and, and what his problems were on that. You, you know, you, you got over it but er he, he didn't re he didn't come back to you when perhaps he could've done... if he was feeling a bit er aggressive [LAUGHTER] at the time []. Erm you gave him your card, that was fine erm your link into referrals, that was good. Erm... you did what I did actually Bill, you actually called them referrals and I think... I, I feel that we shouldn't call them referrals we should call them introductions, I think it, it's probably less confrontational
[Bill:] Okay, aha.
[Robert:] but erm the, the link was there and it was good. Erm... your statement of purpose you, you er you, you gave over and at that point, you know, I've had a policy for thirteen years or whatever it is why, why I haven't seen somebody before... erm and again you, you gave an answer to that erm... which, which actually satisfied... there wasn't any, any comeback on it... erm you mentioned industry and so on and that was, that was, that was f that was okay. Erm I didn't spot the tentative benefit, I don't think you actually got that bit as far as what was gonna be in it because when erm Steve came up with the why so long I think that, that took you off the track a bit.
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Robert:] Erm... tt you then moved into introduce the C C Q... and after you'd done that, then you got the, the willingness to proceed.... So you, you went sort of back the other way and alright it was, it was okay and, and er and there was no problems there because any, anything that came up with the C C Q you, you o you answered the questions there and went through. Erm... the other parts that I made a note of, you didn't ac well you... Steve said the wife will be back in an hour and a half... erm you didn't pick up Bill any, anything on that at that stage as to whether she ought to be involved although when he started talking or when he couldn't remember the, the names of the or dates of birth of the children, he remembered the names, the dates of birth of the children, you mentioned the fact then that the wife would be back in a... in an hour
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Robert:] but I don't think you actually mentioned at any time you know the, the wife's involvement in it... other than that point.
[Joan:] She's only the wife.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Ooh!...
[Robert:] I'll ignore that. Erm... Steve was quite meticulous about the family names
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Robert:] erm er and the spelling of it, you, you asked, I think, about the, about the Bridgit side of it and so on and, and questioned that and then again later on picked up a bit about the er tt about the spelling of the children's names so you, you went along with him on, on that. I don't know whether, whether it might've been worthwhile just questioning a bit more about the... the link because he was obviously very keen on it
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Robert:] but you, you, you know, you, you picked it up later on and more or less o overcame that. Erm the education side... you picked up university and school fees. Steve mentioned, you know, to put fifteen, twenty pounds a month into it... erm... and you said well we'll come back to that later... which I think on the face of it is probably er a right way of going about it cos you didn't get interrupted at that stage talking about a specific product so I think that was er that was good.... Erm one of the other things that, that was mentioned was the magazine... he'd seen, he'd seen, he'd seen the thing on
[Bill:] Financial News actually.
[Robert:] about school er further education on, on the magazine and I felt that perhaps, bearing in mind what he'd said earlier about... I haven't had any contact with you for thirteen years, that might have been something that you could've you know reinforced a bit well we've now got financial advisers, the other thing or one of the other things we're doing is, is this contact magazine which we're sending out to policy holders... and it, you know, it helps to bridge the gap as it were. Erm... I can't remember whether occupation or health c I think health comes next doesn't it? Yeah. He mentioned his back problem... you never really got to find out exactly what it was, he sort of glossed over it, he said oh I'm alright now.... You never really sort of said well was it, was it a slipped disc or is it gone or have you gotta go back for any more tests or anything like that er and bearing in mind that he also said he was keen on sports and he played tennis and so on, you could've had the opportunity there to say oh have your back problem, back troubles made in difference to you in that area?
[Bill:] Mm....
[Robert:] Erm... occupation... when you, you were talking about travel when, he'd told you what he was doing and he was associated with an American company or the parent company was in America... erm you mentioned about travel, Steve started talking about car and miles he drives and he also mentioned flying... but you never explored at all really the, the flying side. You, you, you assumed that he was flying as a, as a fare paying passenger erm and when he started, when you s then started saying how many miles do you do Steve went straight back to talk about car travel.
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Robert:] So that the flying part never got mentioned at all, you know, whether he flies around in single engined planes.
[Joan:] He's got wings.
[Robert:] Pardon?
[Joan:] He's got wings.
[Robert:] He's got wings, yeah. Well I know he's a clever chap. Erm the salary part was good and you, you were getting all the other bits and pieces that went on, you got his basic salary and you started talking about other benefits and you were exploring those when we er, when we came to the, to the end. As I say it, it was a good structure, very, very er... very relaxed, very good, good communication, it wasn't one way or the other. As far as the actual... steps are concerned I say the on the on the one that you missed out was the tentative benefits statement, that got lost out because of erm tt the red herring that he threw in about why so long, but it do you know it does highlight that we've gotta try and get back on to it but oth you know, there was a lot of good things in it.
[Bill:] Fair enough.
[Robert:] Okay? Joan Do you wanna have your er...
[Joan:] Yeah okay then.
[Robert:] your say.
[Joan:] My say.... I've actually got very little to actually pick you up on Bill because I think erm... I think you did very well
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Joan:] erm
[Bill:] Most women find that.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So
[Joan:] [LAUGHTER] Right, erm... I've actually got down that erm you assumed that his wife wasn't a tax pay sorry, his wife wasn't a tax payer and you assumed that she wasn't working but you did actually pick back up on that later that she wasn't... that she wasn't going back to work after having the children so erm tt... that is now irrelevant but it was at the time that you were saying it, that you didn't actually pick it up. I actually got the impression that erm... I mean I'm not going to go over the, the points that
[Bill:] Mm.
[Joan:] that Robert's already gone over, but I actually got the impression that erm I... that you didn't feel relaxed in what you were doing, you knew what you were talking about but erm you didn't feel relaxed and if I'd've been your customer then I, I certainly wouldn't have felt relaxed either and... and that's the impression that I got which was the completely opposite of Robert. Erm... tt... er when it came to the children erm and he didn't know the date of birth erm you should've at least got the ages of them
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Joan:] and, and made a note of those. Erm... tt... there's er... one point I would like to make, when I, when I made that comment about she's only the wife, and I'll just clarify why I said that and this is... it's amus [LAUGHTER] a few years ago some, somebody who was, we were taking a policy out with [LAUGHTER] right [] was, came to me and was, was talking and making arrangements to, to come and see us and he patronisingly said... erm and your husband'll be there, and I patronisingly said back, and you'll be bringing your wife, [LAUGHTER] because of the way that he came across to me [] and I, I mean
[Robert:] Yeah, yeah I know I said that.
[Joan:] I don't think any of us have actually done that but that is... that was the reason for my sarcasm
[Robert:] Yeah it's a, it's a good point. Yes. No, no I, I
[Joan:] so er
[Robert:] it was taken that way
[Joan:] because because that is how I felt when he was actually saying that to me
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Joan:] you know? Erm but er I'd just like to add that... that, that wasn't relating to Bill because he certainly didn't do that. Erm... I wasn't, I didn't know what you were trying to get at when you were bringing up the miles per annum that he was doing, I can understand the flying side of it but driving in the car, yes you need to know that he's doing a lot of miles and that there's, you know,the there's the potential danger and everything there but I didn't understand why you need his specific miles per annum. I don't know. Erm I think that's about all that I can add to what Robert said.
[speaker005:] Okay, fine. Ron?
[Ron:] [clears throat] Well apart from those things... erm... tt when, when you were talking about the back erm Steve sort of gestured, in a way, that... yes my back was erm oh my back, yes, that's only a one off thing, there may have been some other health problem there which could've gone into. I mean apart from that, yeah I mean you're marvellous
[Bill:] Mm. Carry on.
[Ron:] there's no question about it, you were very good and I, I'm amazed I picked up these things.
[Joan:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ron:] Se no seriously I, I thought you were very good Bill, there's no question about it. Erm... was the original or the existing business only done through the post?
[Bill:] Mm.
[Ron:] Er was, did anyone come round at any time?
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Ron:] Erm I know he's not seen anyone for thirteen years but did, did it just come through the post, sign here, send it back
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Ron:] you know or was there, you know is that other point, was, was there an intermediat yeah, someone else.
[Bill:] Mhm.
[Ron:] Erm tt... the flying bit, erm I was a bit unsure whether they actually flew the plane, he flew it, the partner flew it, whether they were paying or, or
[Joan:] Whether they had wings.
[Ron:] what they were doing
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Bill:] Well
[Ron:] erm as, as I'm sure you picked up. The bonus erm... he only got two and a half grand last year, is he expecting to get some this year and if so what does he normally do with the money.
[Bill:] Yeah, good point.
[Ron:] Erm
[Joan:] That's a good point actually.
[Ron:] and just... the, the part here, I mean this, this... I don't know if it's right or if it's wrong but when you said... I wanna put twenty quid towards my children's future... perhaps the way I would see is I, I would think twenty quid'll go nowhere for their future, it's gonna be a lot more expensive so as you're openly offering me to take the money off you for that I would have perhaps gone down to try and commit you towards that need... there and then to see how important it is... and then, because when I er eventually bring back erm the sort of agenda and say look it's gonna cost you a hundred and twenty quid a month... erm you're sort of sold on the idea. I don't know if that would've been the right thing to do there. See I, I personally in, in the past I would've jumped on it and gone for it.
[speaker005:] I think it, it's wi Bill was wise not to pursue it.
[Ron:] Right.
[speaker005:] I think his er the best thing to do would be simply to acknowledge at that stage, as Bill did, yeah that is an important area erm say yeah that's something we can help you on, indeed it's something many of my clients erm have found that Friends Provident is really very good at organizing, we've got plans specifically designed for that but rather than look at that now, let's look at the overall picture
[Ron:] Right okay.
[speaker005:] to see if there are any other areas which may be even more important for us to address. You happy with that?
[Ron:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] And then move on.
[Ron:] Right. So
[speaker005:] Check check his understanding and check
[Ron:] yeah, so I wasn't sort of having a go, I just didn't know which way we at Friends Provident would go. See in the past
[speaker005:] you'd walk out with business, you would walk out with business
[Ron:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] but you probably would've missed other things.
[Ron:] Yeah....
[speaker005:] Alright?
[Ron:] Right.
[speaker005:] Finished?
[Ron:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Any other points?
[Ron:] No but as I say, you know
[speaker005:] Okay. Thanks Ron.
[Ron:] you're marvellous Bill.
[Bill:] Wait till I see what you or Steve has to say. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] Steve
[speaker001:] Yeah erm [clears throat] one thing, you were a little bit nervous to start with and what that can do is to give you a tendency to piggyback questions, is that something you're aware of?
[Bill:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Do you know what I mean by that?
[Bill:] You're going on er you're not listening to the answers, you're going too fast.
[speaker001:] Not necessarily no, piggyback is where you asked, you asked me several questions and su and then either added another question to it or asked a question and gave an answer... and by doing that you are limiting my responses and I wasn't sure which an which question I was answering. Does your wife do that or does somebody else do that, why not just ask me the question... who does the gardening
[Bill:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker001:] and zip up. Ask the questions. The danger is er you, you limit what I'm going to say to you. So the easiest thing is just ask a question and say nothing, wait for the answer and then respond appropriately. So that's one of the things er I picked up on. Tt erm... with the F P mailshot er I think a good question to ask would've been why did you buy it, was there any reason behind it... are you happy with it... er when it came to referrals I mentioned the tennis club, something you could perhaps develop is, that's interesting, which club is that
[Bill:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] oh yes it's the er West Worthing Club and do you have a regular, you know, partner you play with, is it er er a doubles match and who would... cos you're then sort of sounding out whether there's referral business in that one. The thing about the business miles, you were right to ask me the business miles
[Bill:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] absolutely cos, cos that's gonna, that'll come into any er underwriting
[Bill:] Mm.
[speaker001:] if I do over X number of miles and of course the mileage I did was, was way in excess
[Bill:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] of what would be normally considered, and in, of flying, again I, I thought what are you driving at? When you said miles I was thinking what, how many miles is it, how many miles is it that I fly to Turin and Zurich and... do you want me to try and add that up and then it was into the cars I thought oh this is an easier question to answer, I'll stick with the cars cos I know that I do twenty two thousand.
[Bill:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Erm a and the, the person I was playing is a friend of mine, he does do a lot of flying
[Bill:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] so of course that would've come out at a later stage, yeah, you know there's a lot of business miles involved in flying to all these er places. Erm I thought you had a good structured call, you were focused on business, you obviously picked up on the buying side. Er I thought you did well in erm giving yourself credibility by talking about the shares, oh yes you can have two hundred and fifty pounds per month in the shares and they've done well and I said oh yes they have done well, and I felt good that you were praising me up for being such a clever chap, and so I thought that was all, all jolly good stuff.
[Bill:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Tt erm the magazine, a magazine's a good way of getting referrals... I can't remember who it is, somebody who er Ken I think it is, er uses the magazines as a great way of saying erm you've read that in the magazine, you've found it useful, tell me what about the chaps at Excon, who, who else would you work with who would find it useful to have a subscription, some kind of subscription, who, who should be placed on our mailing list.
[Bill:] Mm.
[speaker001:] So you get referrals that way by using the magazine.... Tt erm and explore the salary a bit more because again I said it's basic at thirty five and there's a few other bits and pieces but you never really got to grips with what those other bits and pieces are, yeah there's performance related pay, location allowances, a company car, there's BUPA, all those bits and bobs need to be identified.
[Bill:] Mm....
[speaker001:] That's er and that's it Mark.
[speaker005:] Okay.
[Joan:] Very good.
[speaker005:] Right, thanks very much Steve.
[Bill:] Erm I hones
[speaker005:] Bill?
[Bill:] honestly felt a wee bit nervous at the start just to make sure that I had the structure, that, that, I think that was the whole crux of the thing. Er... you find in a one to one situation you become more relaxed because... you're conscious of being watched, you know what I mean? Er the structure is there to, to be used. That was, that was the only thing I, I thought well if I get off to the wrong start, you're off on the wrong start completely so yes I, I concede that I was nervous at the, at the beginning. Erm I cl well... I, I'm looking for advice here, the wife is not there, do you say oh will she be joining me, joining us? Do you do that right at the very beginning?
[speaker001:] Oh you would [clears throat] you would say oh nice to meet you Mr Brown, oh erm by the way will your wife be coming to join us because I'm sure she will find it most beneficial.
[Bill:] That's right.
[speaker001:] She'll be, there'll be questions she'd want to ask which perhaps you, you may not er normally pick up on and ask and if it's well I'm afraid she's gone out shopping today say well that's a pity, I'd love to meet up with her. Never mind, perhaps next time when we meet and hopefully we'll be meeting again in say a fortnight's time, erm we can set some time aside when you'll both be here cos I'm sure she'll be interested to hear what I've got to come back and talk about.
[Bill:] Mhm. Right. Fine. Er I was, I was quite happy, I take the point er missing the points about the squash club, the tennis club because these are opportunities to get other names. Erm tt whether that's appropriate, you know, I'm thinking of it as a first appointment just to get a general picture... whereas you might be coming back to stir his memory for referrals by saying er, you know, er you mentioned here you're a member of the squash club, do you remember I said I'd be looking for introductions, maybe we'll learn whether at the beginning of the second appointment you jog the memory there er you know in other words what I'm do doing is keeping that in my mind, that you are remembering the squash club or whatever club it may be and use that later, although I didn't er elaborate on it at that, that er... because I think you can go off at a tangent
[speaker001:] Yeah I think
[Bill:] at that point.
[speaker001:] yeah I think the er what I, if, if it were me, I'm not saying this is the, you know, the way to do it, if it
[Bill:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] were me as it has been I'd say that's interesting, which club is that, oh it's the no the, I'd, I'd pursue it just a little bit further, spend a
[Bill:] Aha. Okay.
[speaker001:] few more minutes and it might be oh it's the West Worthing Club, that's interesting some of my clients play there as well. Who do you play with, oh I play with Joe Snooks and Fred Brown. Really? Erm how often do you play, oh once a week or a couple of times a week, what sort of standard is it and what it's doing is you've got an opportunity to sound off about yourself and that's who we are talking about isn't it? Ourselves.
[Bill:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] So you're feeling relaxed and comfortable and good because you're telling me, you know, what a great tennis player I am and I really enjoy it, you've just given me a couple of names that I'll either make a note of or I'll say that's interesting cos I actually deal with Joe on a business relationship anyway erm maybe we could meet some other people from the tennis club, self employed people, professional people such as yourself, who might be interested in looking at financial planning but today I'm more interested in talking about you Bill, erm we'll come back to them a bit later if I may so let's press on. And what I've done is I've kind of just sown the seed
[Bill:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and moved on cos I don't wanna spend any more time on it but
[Bill:] No.
[speaker001:] I've just planted a seed that I know other people
[Bill:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] like minded people.
[Bill:] By mentioning names you see are, are you not divulging customer confidentiality?
[speaker001:] Erm I, I don't think I have a problem saying well actually I deal on er i if someone said erm if you said I play with Joe Snooks you'd say Joe Snooks, that's interesting Joe's a, a very good client of mine
[Bill:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I'm not gonna say you know that Joe's placed X amount with me.
[Bill:] Oh just say I know him quite well.
[speaker001:] Yeah I knew Joe s yeah, I know Joe very well. And that instantly brings, you start thinking oh he must be alright cos if Joe's done business with him
[Bill:] If J if Joe knows him.
[speaker001:] he's alright, he's an okay kind of a bloke.
[Bill:] Mhm. Okay that's fine.... Er
[speaker001:] Am I okay to tell everybody to come in, they're all waiting outside.
[Bill:] Oh aye sure, I mean
[speaker001:] I'll just give them a shout.
[speaker005:] Okay? Anything else Bill?
[Bill:] Fine. Erm... not really, I mean er the salary one we could have got into in greater depth when we were cut
[speaker001:] Yes.
[Bill:] that was the... point No that's true. That is very true.
[speaker001:] Okay? Thank you very much.
[Bill:] Much appreciated. Ta.
[speaker001:] Grab a chair then, we'll just have a quick debrief and then we'll break for lunch. ... So you should've all had... where's Matt, do you know where Matt's gone? No he's disappeared I think it's cos he feels a bit rough actually, he's got a terrible cold. Yeah. Right so that was your first attempt at er a role play w what were your thoughts?... Oh It was alright. It was alright, a bit of fun really. It is, yeah, role play is an effective method of er learning, put into practice, you know... and, if you can hack it here and get passed me, then it's a breeze in the real world. Supposedly. Well I hope you enjoyed this morning now what I want to do this afternoon, we're gonna break for lunch now and then can we reconvene at the syndicate rooms at two o'clock Mhm. complete the final role play and come back here at five to three and we'll look at then step two. Cos you've got one more role play to do erm at your syndicate groups so don't come here, go straight to your rooms, but start at two o'clock and then back here at five to three. Okay? Yeah fine. Yeah so I'll see you all after lunch then? Right. Thank you. successful ... [sighing] Oh dear [] [LAUGHTER] It's nice to know you feel like us Martin [].... Yeah.... Are you timekeeper? Yes, thank you very much.... We going straight into it? Well you've got a five minute preparation first. Five minutes. prepare for the er the rigours of working And is it Sorry? ? Erm... you are A pain, I know. no, no... you're a jurassic. A jurassic, right. Yeah, okay? [whispering] Okay [].... Right. Got it all under control?...... That'll do as your business card.... We're ready when you wanna go Okay. [clears throat] Okay may as well go for it I suppose. I'll just make sure Are we, are we in shot are we? Yes.... Yes you are. Okay.... Tell me when you're ready. Yeah, whenever. Do you want your count down? Three two one? Whatever you like. [LAUGHTER] ... You're on....
[Robert:] Good afternoon Mr. Hi, Rob from Friends Provident erm very pleased to meet you.
[speaker001:] Good, good.
[Robert:] How are you keeping?
[speaker001:] Very well thank you.
[Robert:] Oh good. Erm...... erm your directions to your home was very good and er
[speaker001:] Yes.
[Robert:] I, I found it with utmost ease.
[speaker001:] Mhm. Yeah we thought it important to send to you because we are, you know, a bit out of the way that's all and erm... people tend to go zipping past and have to go up to the roundabout and come all the way back down again cos it's quite a busy road this and
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] we thought we'd er
[Robert:] What's, what made you actually choose this position?
[speaker001:] Erm... primarily I think it's peaceful, it's quiet, you know.
[Robert:] Mm. Must be beautiful in the summer but then equally as good in er in the autumn.
[speaker001:] The kids like it here.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] With the old snow and they go up the... the hills up there and er go sledding and er they find it very enjoyable actually.
[Robert:] Yes. Right.
[speaker001:] I was expecting you a little bit earlier actually, I think perhaps you got the times wrong I was
[Robert:] Yeah I'm sorry I'm a little bit late but, you know, I just wanted to make sure I'd got the right turnings cos erm
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] otherwise, as you say, I could've gone straight past here.
[speaker001:] You could've done right, okay, well you're here now anyway.
[Robert:] Right, that's it, and the reason for me er tt coming today, as I explained on the telephone to you
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] is twofold really, one for me to introduce myself to you and let you know that I am the representative that's with Friends Provident that will
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] now be looking after your er... business
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] that you've got with Friends Provident.
[speaker001:] Right, yeah.
[Robert:] Now... erm... how, how long is it since you've seen anyone from Friends Provident?
[speaker001:] Coo! Oh God, must be... six possibly seven years now when I took the policy out originally I think.
[Robert:] Yeah. Yeah. And s and that's really the main reason why this new sector has been brought up, it's been ca it's called first call
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] and it's the main reason er that it's been brought about so that we can look after the clients that we have er cos in the past... tt erm... er how did you come to get the business that you have with us? Was it...
[speaker001:] Ooh! Erm... tt... I think, oh dear, I saw an advert in the paper I think to, to take out a savings plan or something and I just signed up a, a form and back it came.
[Robert:] I see. An and did, did er was that all conducted through the post?
[speaker001:] Er initially yes, yes I think it was. I got a couple of phone calls from somebody but er
[Robert:] Right. But you've had no dealings for the past six or seven years?
[speaker001:] No not at all and in fact, you know, your call was a, a bolt out the blue as it were. Very
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] surprised to hear, well I'm glad to see you but very surprised to hear from you
[Robert:] That's right. Well the, I mean the thing is that erm... over the past erm we've been recommended to people
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] I mean like you, you, you chose the route via the post
[speaker001:] Yes.
[Robert:] now there, there must've been one reason why you chose Friends Provident....
[speaker001:] Erm there's a couple of reasons really, one... was to get the free gift
[Robert:] Right.
[speaker001:] that came with it.
[Robert:] Yeah that's always good.
[speaker001:] Well, you know, I think it was a kind of sports bag or something and I thought oh I'll go along with that and the other, I mean I had heard of them before and I made a few enquiries and they said, you know, you... you were quite quality company so I thought
[Robert:] That's right.
[speaker001:] yeah I'd give them are, I'd put my money with you people as opposed to the companies.
[Robert:] That's fine. Well see that's, that's one route that we do business and the other route is through recommendations from, from either other people
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] or from er brokers for instance
[speaker001:] Right, yeah.
[Robert:] er they recommend that y erm Friends Provident to people
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] and er that's the main source of our business.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] Now... because we, we've done so much business... we now need to look after it ourselves
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] and this is why I've been today to see you.
[speaker001:] Right. Okay.
[Robert:] Now erm tt... with er... tt... lost now... erm... no I forget
[speaker001:] So why are you here? Why have you come to see me anyway?...
[Robert:] Erm well it was, it was really to go through erm just to, to give you a face so that you've got someone to contact
[speaker001:] Mhm. Yeah.
[Robert:] tt and also to run through your policy that you've got with us
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] just to see it's keeping on tract and
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] and erm it's, it's actually performing how you would wish it to.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] Erm
[speaker001:] Well I'm glad you should say that because the bonuses have gone down and that was a
[Robert:] Really?
[speaker001:] that was quite a concern really, no it, I think it was nine percent last year and it's down to about four four and a half
[Robert:] That's right.
[speaker001:] or something like that.
[Robert:] Yeah there's been a, a, a big change in the industry itself in
[speaker001:] [clears throat] Yeah.
[Robert:] these past couple of years.
[speaker001:] Well why has it gone down?
[Robert:] Erm well it's,i various changes in erm the upset that we had last year with the recession and
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] changes in the rates and er it caused endless problems with the whole industry and in fact the country
[speaker001:] Oh so it's not just you then?
[Robert:] no not just us
[speaker001:] Oh right okay.
[Robert:] it was the whole country, we were all suffering.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] But that's really what I want to come and see you about
[speaker001:] Right, okay.
[Robert:] and also show you this new erm... tt... this new...
[speaker001:] What is it, a planning service or something?
[Robert:] plan er yeah financial planning service that we offer all our clients, people
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] like yourselves and they've found it very beneficial in the past.
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] We've found that we've been able to help them er in various aspects of their life.
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] Er we deal with their immediate erm plans and also their future plans.
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] Erm... and I just would like to offer this service to you. I wonder if you
[speaker001:] Well I mean how long is it gonna take?
[Robert:] Well it should take us roughly erm an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes.
[speaker001:] Yeah okay....
[Robert:] Now the first thing I'd like to do... is just give you this, this, this explains that I'm er employed by Friends Provident
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] and erm... it shows you that I will be... erm... only off er offering advice on Friends Provident's products
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] and they are the only products I will be able to advise you on.
[speaker001:] Right okay.
[Robert:] And also there's my business card and on there you'll see that you've got a contact number
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] so that if at any time you need to get hold of me, don't hesitate just er
[speaker001:] Okay.
[Robert:] get on the phone, I'm just erm... a phone call away like they say.
[speaker001:] Okay, right. Thank you very much.
[Robert:] This is the actual er... I will need to take some notes during the course of our discussion and this is
[speaker001:] Yeah, right.
[Robert:] what I will be running through. Now of course I will be asking you some personal details like about your family
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] I will ask you about your work er your income, your outgoings
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] and just how you see things pa panning out for the future.
[speaker001:] Mhm....
[Robert:] So
[speaker001:] It's a bit of a meaty document isn't it?
[Robert:] It is. There, there's, there's a lot of parts in this which may well be relevant to you but then there's some that may not
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] so er... what it actually is is that it's a main form that we can take everybody's circumstances within this
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] so you could be self employed, you could be employed, you could be
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] you need erm inheritance tax sorted out
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] we can do it all within this one form.
[speaker001:] Right, okay.
[Robert:] But as I say some of it may not er... no, be relevant to yourself.... Right now if I could just er start off here to make sure I've got the er correct post code
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] I mean I've got your address which is erm... is here, am I missing any part of the address?
[speaker001:] No, looks right to me.
[Robert:] Yeah, and is the post code correct.
[speaker001:] Yes it is yeah.
[Robert:] Right. And the telephone number?
[speaker001:] Well you rang me.
[Robert:] That's right, so that's, that's good enough, yeah.
[speaker001:] Correct, yeah.
[Robert:] Right, now... erm... would it, would you like me to call you Martin during this discussion or would you like me to keep it to er Mr?
[speaker001:] Oh you, you can call me Martin.
[Robert:] Thank you. My name, my name's Rob which you may call me.
[speaker001:] Cheers Rob.
[Robert:] Right. If I can just ask you about er your family
[speaker001:] Do you wanna drink while we're here?
[Robert:] Sorry?
[speaker001:] Would you care for a drink?
[Robert:] Er I'll have one a little later if you don't mind.
[speaker001:] Oh fine, okay.
[Robert:] Er if I can just ask you about your wife
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] er could you tell me her name please?
[speaker001:] Yeah sure....
[Robert:] And... what would that be?
[speaker001:] Kay.
[Robert:] Kay?
[speaker001:] Kay yeah....
[Robert:] Is that K A Y?
[speaker001:] Yeah that's right, yeah....
[Robert:] Has she got any middle names at all?
[speaker001:] Francis.
[Robert:] Francis.... Okay.... And your children.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] You spoke about them earlier
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] er could you tell me their names please?
[speaker001:] Yeah sure....
[Robert:] What would they be?
[speaker001:] Er the eldest is Alex
[Robert:] Alex.... And would you know his date of birth offhand?
[speaker001:] Mhm....
[Robert:] What would that be?
[speaker001:] It's the er fif sorry, third of the third eighty five....
[Robert:] Now do you have any other children?
[speaker001:] Yeah, Catherine.
[Robert:] Catherine.... And could you tell me her date of birth please.
[speaker001:] Yes.... It's the er fifteenth of the tenth eighty five....
[Robert:] Eighty?
[speaker001:] Five.
[Robert:] Eighty five.... Two in the same year, you did well.
[speaker001:] Oh sorry one's eighty four one's eighty five.
[Robert:] Eighty five.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Sorry.
[Robert:] And do you have any other children at all?
[speaker001:] No.
[Robert:] No you don't. Do you have any other dependants?
[speaker001:] No....
[Robert:] Okay.... Now with erm... I will ask you about your health details
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] you look a pretty fit guy erm
[speaker001:] Thank you.
[Robert:] is your current state of health good?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[Robert:] Have you had any erm problems in the past?
[speaker001:] No.
[Robert:] No problems at all?
[speaker001:] No.
[Robert:] When was the last time you saw your doctor?
[speaker001:] When I left the navy I suppose.
[Robert:] The navy?
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] And how long ago was that?
[speaker001:] About five years now. About five and a half years....
[Robert:] What, what's, what were you actually doing in the navy?...
[speaker001:] I used to maintain radars and computer systems and stuff like that, I was an engineer.
[Robert:] Oh right.
[speaker001:] And it was good fun, yeah.
[Robert:] And did you, was you able to get round the world much?
[speaker001:] Yeah I saw a bit of America and the West Indies and the Middle East, bit of Europe. I never did the Far East unfortunately.
[Robert:] Mm. did you actually see any action?
[speaker001:] Er no, thankfully, no, no, no I stayed at home while other people got er shot at.
[Robert:] Mm. Good luck.
[speaker001:] I was quite pleased as well.
[Robert:] And do you still keep in contact with er your pals in the navy?
[speaker001:] Not not really
[Robert:] No.
[speaker001:] the navy's a continual goodbye, people move on to different shore establishments,...
[Robert:] Er tell me is er are yourself and Kay smokers?
[speaker001:] Erm Kay does, I don't.
[Robert:] Kay does, and does she smoke cigarettes or
[speaker001:] Yeah, about twenty a day she smokes....
[Robert:] And what, what sort of things do you do in your, in your spare time?
[speaker001:] Erm [sighing] mm [] I play erm racquet sports, I play a bit of squash and badminton, but that's about all really.
[Robert:] Er er are you involved in a club then?
[speaker001:] There's a sports centre not too far from here that er I play badminton.
[Robert:] Mm.... And do, do you normally play with Kay or do you have er
[speaker001:] Yes, yeah we have we, there's a foursome, another couple we play with on a regular basis....
[Robert:] And who, who are the other two? Are they, are they friends of yours that live locally?
[speaker001:] Yes they just live er a couple do er tt... er just down the road from here.
[Robert:] Oh right.... And what, what was the sport centre you belong to?
[speaker001:] Well it's just a, I don't know, er the Daventry Sports Centre I think they call it.
[Robert:] Oh yeah.... And your friends down the road there
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] that you normally play with... erm... I wonder if during the course of erm... this discussion today... if you feel erm that it's gone well for you
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] and you feel that you've found some benefit within this discussion
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Robert:] er I wonder if you, you would mind if I contacted your friends?
[speaker001:] Don't know about that. Don't know. Have to see what you can do first.
[Robert:] Mm what, what sort of problem do you find with that at this stage?
[speaker001:] Well you've not shown me what you can do erm I don't know you that well. I haven't seen anyone at the company for nearly, what, six seven years and already you say you want to speak to my friends.
[Robert:] That's right.... Yeah I can, I can perfectly understand that. If you feel that there's some benefit that's come out of this meeting today
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] erm would you have any objection to letting me contact them?
[speaker001:] I think I'd talk to them first and if they're agreeable then I'd give you their name and telephone number but I'd have to speak to them first but I wouldn't just give out the name and telephone number on an ad hoc basis.
[Robert:] Right. Would you mind if I come back on to that later?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] Okay just moving ahead now, er with your occupation erm... is it of a hazardous nature?
[speaker001:] Erm... not particularly, no.
[Robert:] Mhm.... What, what is it you actually do at this moment?
[speaker001:] Erm electrical engineer....
[Robert:] Right and whereabouts are you based?
[speaker001:] Er just in Daventry for I B M.
[Robert:] I B M? So you're dealing with er photocopiers and
[speaker001:] Not really I maintain P Cs, the laptops....
[Robert:] And how long have you actually been there?
[speaker001:] About five years, I joined there when I left the
[Robert:] Five years.... And er they're in Daventry are they?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[Robert:] I B M?
[speaker001:] Yes they are....
[Robert:] Does your wife work at all?
[speaker001:] No no she's a housewife. Well she works but
[Bill:] That's fine.
[speaker001:] That's it, okay, well done.
[Robert:] Oh
[speaker001:] Never mind.
[Robert:] disastrously.... I went down the wrong route with the... referrals and
[speaker001:] Never mind we'll just We'll just see how it comes... [there is then fifteen minutes where the video of the above role playing exercise is played back] Right.... Right.... [clears throat]... Don't rewind it.
[Joan:] Oh right, sorry.... I'll get it back to the place.
[speaker001:] Right.
[Joan:] Okay sorry.
[speaker001:] Right we'll leave you to it.... Right.... You erm... you're, you're a bit uncertain and a bit nervous all the way [LAUGHTER] through it [] but I think it was, it was basically because you
[Robert:] Yeah I lost it totally
[speaker001:] er... you, you got unsettled fairly er fairly early on didn't you? Erm but anyway you s you started off with er with some greeting and er and er appropriate sociability... erm one thing I noticed that Martin seemed to take control of the handshake and that's something that was pointed out this morning and, and looked at and... from where I was it looked as though he was keeping hold of your hand some time, you had your buyer's guide and whatever in your other hand and you couldn't, you know, bring it over and, and put yourself back into control erm... and an interesting one and a, an e an example to all of us I think. Erm... you... Martin threw one in about being late. You, you apologized for lateness... the only thing I wonder on there is er you know it's ea it's easy enough to say that... you didn't actually sort of clarify the time that you were gonna be there, you just accepted that you were late... erm but I mean that's a... you know ju just a point I wonder that rather than apologizing straight of all, straight, straight away if you knew you were late then that was one thing that perhaps you could've got that in the initial greeting. But that's, that's a situation that, you know, you haven't really got control of when it arrive. Erm you seemed to go straight from sort of the, the sociability side into, into a statement of purpose... erm and then went back to er how did you come to do business with Friends Provident.... Martin mentioned that he, he'd done it by post and you, you ex explored as to why. He said about a, a free gift... as the first thing and then he said about made enquiries of others... which I thought was almost er er a, a way there of saying well, you know,oth other people more or less recommend... Friends Provident.... Erm where did we go then?... You didn't at that stage I don't think make any sort of link towards referrals and introductions. Missed out sort of tentative benefits... erm... and went straight into, to talking about the, the C C Q.... Er now wait a minute, where are we? Erm... one, one of the statements that you did come out with when you, when you were saying about erm why you were there, you said about to make sure that your policy is performing how you wish it to... which is as good a one as I did when I said you're obviously satisfied [LAUGHTER] with, with your Friends Provident contract cos we're brilliant []... erm... Martin asked the question about why has the, why has the bonus gone down and, and you overcame that objection er which was good and he, he was, he was satisfied with that. Erm when you actually then moved on to start er start completing the, the C C Q you were asking, asking closed questions... er you know you said, said to Martin can you tell me your wife's name and [LAUGHTER] he said yes and it went on about three or four times []... er yeah alright you were getting the names but you were having to ask two questions to actually get them because you weren't er weren't, you know, asking probe questions, you started off could you.... Er with, with, you asked Martin about his dependants and he said he hadn't got any but you didn't question him on the wife's dependants, or his wife's dependants.... Having said that when you were looking at the, at the sporting side you er... you put in some, some questions about who he was, who he was playing er his sports with, obviously with the idea of, of referrals erm but... because in fact I think because you hadn't done anything to referrals earlier on, when you brought it up there was an obj er there was an objection from Martin to it. But er having done that erm you, you apacked his er, his objection very well and in fact you er y you got over that because you, you told him why er and what you could do and, and he, he agreed to er... he was certainly a lot warmer then than he was initially.... Erm... as far as the C C Q itself was concerned you, you gave an awful lot of information about the sort of things you were gonna look for when Martin said about, you know, what's in it and it's, it's pretty big and what have you... you mentioned a lot of subjects or a lot of technical jargon which may or may not have meant anything to the client rather than just say well, you know, some of it won't, may well not apply to you.... Erm... Martin offered you a drink which in fact you quite rightly I think refused at that stage. I don't know whether, whether it sort of erm rang [LAUGHTER] any bells with you but normally [] if you're in a house people don't offer you dri they usually say would you like a cup of tea or a cup of coffee and I just wondered, perhaps it's my suspicious nature, [LAUGHTER] whether this guy's got a drink problem [] [LAUGHTER] Too deep, too deep. Erm... the other thing that, that I couldn't quite hear but I thought when you were asking him about where he'd been with the navy, I thought he said to the Far East unfortunately. Did you say that? No I hadn't been to the Far East unfortunately. Oh I see, sorry, I I hadn't been to the Far East. Yeah, right. Ah that, that's alright, that's okay well that, that is me, I couldn't hear. Erm but I say there, there were a couple of erm objections that came up during the course of the conversation which really resulted because you, you'd fallen down on the actual structure, but having said that then again there were two or three examples that you apacked and you got through very well and you, you recovered yourself well on that... and, and I say really I think that's er that's covered most of the bits that, that I felt were, were there. Okay. Joan? Would you like to er
[Joan:] Okay.
[speaker001:] have a go?
[Joan:] I'll just erm pick up on maybe some things that you haven't already mentioned. Erm... I found the, the greeting and the appropriate sociability to start with very hesitant but I think that was most probably just nerves on your part Robert, I don't think it was something that you would usually have a problem with. Erm and then after the, the greeting you went, the actual erm way that you went was statement of purpose and then you did actually start asking for referrals, you started but then you didn't actually follow anything up, you started the script of referrals but you didn't actually follow it up again with anything. And then you went on to the stat the statement of purpose again followed by your business and buy business card and buyer's guide so erm... tt that was that. Erm you closed questioned which I thought Martin made very difficult for you... but er obviously intentionally but [LAUGHTER] erm... what else is it you mentioned erm... pension or benefits from the navy, you never actually picked up on whether he had any erm pension benefit from, from the forces which is something that, that we would have had to have made a note of.... Erm... the, the other thing I noticed was that there is very little or no eye contact at all with Martin so you, you were never really looking at him when you were asking questions or when he was giving you the answers back, so there was no er visual acknowledgement whenever he was, he was coming back to you. I'm not quite sure whether you were commending Martin for being able to have two children in the same [LAUGHTER] year
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That was a mistake.
[Joan:] so that I'm not quite sure whether []
[speaker001:] speedy gonzales here. [LAUGHTER]
[Joan:] I'm not quite sure whether that was a pat on the back [LAUGHTER] or what [] but anyway... erm and when Martin offered you for a drink I actually took it as a cup of tea actually [LAUGHTER] so []
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Joan:] I
[speaker001:] I think, yeah.
[Joan:] so I actually took it the other way that, you know, do you just want a cup of tea. I mean
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Joan:] it was... it was morning or afternoon or whatever. Erm... you did try and pick up, I think you realized that er you hadn't done your ref er your referrals properly at the beginning and you actually came back to it erm at the end erm trying to pick up on where you left off and erm... Martin was very non-committal at that point. Erm and the other thing was that erm when Martin picked you up for being late, you didn't even give a reason for being late. Erm... I wanted to make sure I'd got the right turning I think was the answer but there was no reason to say I had problems finding you or I was held up I'm sorry for that or, or anything, there was no, there was no actual acknowledgement or reason for being late. But in saying that I'll go ahead, I'll go ahead with what Robert said although it seems as if erm between us we picked up on a lot of things, there was some objections that Martin threw at you that I thought you handled particularly well.
[speaker001:] Mm. Erm Bill?...
[Bill:] Very near the beginning Maggie gave a wee tip, don't say you're a representative say you're an employee of Friends Provident, it makes life easier. He actually corrected it later on when he has to go back into it but, you know, just, just a wee point there erm... you did, did it initially but corrected it later on when you, you came back into it. I actually mar marked twelve closed questions... as it so happened but that's, that's neither here nor there, that's ju that's just a point of reference. Erm you created er your own problem by saying how long is it since you've seen an F P representative... you're just building a barrier up again. If he raises it, fine, you deal, deal with it as an objection but if... you know don't, don't invite objections er. Who did Martin check with before he took out the F P er policy? And one other thing was er what did you see the doctor about when you were in the navy....
[Joan:] Mm.
[Bill:] Er you saw the er saw him five years ago in the navy, now it could've been just a regular check which every... seaman gets or it could be, it could've been something of a serious nature.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Bill:] One thing I will commend you for, it took a lot of ball to carry on even when you had lost the thread.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Bill:] Bear that in mind. That's the important thing. You stuck with it.... Once you get your structure, you'll win....
[speaker001:] Erm not much more to add really I think. Erm... I thought you hung in there for referrals there, that was good, you, you were, you were a terrier there, you're gonna get stuck in for referrals. The old handshake was just I was gonna see who was gonna let go first, well he wasn't gonna let go so I thought erm you know
[Joan:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] there was no sort of, you know, about handshake or anything daft like that he just, he just wouldn't let go of my hand so I had to pull off really. Erm... the te I liked the tentative benefit, here to look after your clients, put a name to a face erm help keep you on track, yeah I liked that, that was good.... Er handle the objection about the bonuses... cos they have gone down Mm. you know so I think be aware of that, that may be a valid erm observation to be thrown back at you. The permission of procedure, yes I'm offering this service to you, that was good.... Erm... I think, yeah,o over elaborate erm explanation of why the C C Q, that went on a bit long. I think a structured note take a few notes, will that'll be okay, done, put to bed. And I think overall I think until you get really familiar with the structure, keep it with you, you know, and just refer back, that'll keep you on track. But all in all erm I admire you for actually to hang in there, there was a few pregnant pauses but you kept going.
[Robert:] Well t I mean to be honest erm tt I wanted to try some different things er cos I've seen these guys today
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] so I wanted to try and go for the C C Q, this is it, this is what we're... gonna ask you and of course it didn't work but I had to try it to see.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] And of course I spoke erm er there I spoke a lot slower than I normally do.
[speaker001:] Yes I thought, yes it was at a sort of slow pace that was, yeah
[Robert:] Normally I'm I'm going, I'm racing.
[speaker001:] Yeah I'd stick to that.
[Robert:] and I, and I thought well let's try it cos you know I'm going on what we... it was brought up
[Joan:] On Friday.
[Robert:] was it Friday? Er you know and keep your, and I just can't do it.
[speaker001:] No don't, don't
[Robert:] I have too much time to think then and that, that's what throws me.
[speaker001:] Don't try and be something that you're not
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] if you talk quickly and you're a er I mean you're very erm elaborate erm
[Robert:] That's right.
[speaker001:] gregarious, you know you've always, er your arms are everywhere
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] if that is you, be you.... You know, stick with it, that's your strength.
[Robert:] That's it, and er so I wanted to try all these things and of course
[speaker001:] Yeah okay there's nothing wrong with that
[Robert:] it didn't work.
[speaker001:] Yeah. But this is the place to try these things cos the more you try the better you become
[Robert:] Sure.
[speaker001:] but I'd be tempted to stick with what you know you can do when you're actually in front of the customer.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Cos I mean they won't be as, as hyper-critical as we are.
[Robert:] See and, and, and normally, and I, I don't know if, if it's correct with us, but... normally I would, I would speak to the client... talk to him, you know, about different things, whatever, go into his business and all sorts
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] and then I would say well you know I just need to make a few notes
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] can we just put that down
[speaker001:] Yes. Yeah.
[Robert:] and then start writing but sort of go over it a bit more, do a lot more talking first before
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] I start actually writing anything.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[Robert:] Now is that okay to do that?
[speaker001:] Yes it is, yeah.
[Robert:] Oh well then that's what I would normally do.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I think so long as you can keep the parts of the structure there erm... and try not to reinvent the wheel
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I think if you're gonna do something that... er deviate, because the thing is when you do your tandem calls, they're gonna want to see the structure
[Robert:] Sure.
[speaker001:] and if you wander off too far from the structure
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] then they'll mark you down as being non-competent
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and you need the to get on level two. So I think if you have a plan of attack which you feel works better for you then I think you must run it by your manager first of all to get his agreement before you
[Robert:] See I would, I would spend much... much more time socializing
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] and then say well look the reason why I'm here is this
[speaker001:] Well the whole point of it is, is
[Robert:] and then go in to it but
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] I wouldn't hit it so early you see, I would
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] spend more time talking to him
[speaker001:] Good. Well there's nothing wrong in that but I think be aware of the potential danger that if it is too long
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you're only there for an hour or so you may have, I don't know, twenty minutes of appropriate sociability which builds a rapport tremendously well
[Robert:] Sure.
[speaker001:] you start to probe and disturb and you've gotta it short.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So I think time management will be key there if that's the way you wanna do it. Now as I said way back at the very beginning, the greeting and appropriate sociability will set the scene... if it's too short or too long it will doubtlessly alienate the whole process but you can see the domino effect you but you can see the domino effect you
[Robert:] Yeah that's right.
[speaker001:] and you miss bits out, you're all the information and you haven't probed properly, you haven't disturbed... and a weak first is a weak second etcetera etcetera etcetera.
[Robert:] So it was good, good to see it cos then they now know that it's, that's
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, get up there and stick to the structure
[Robert:] Mm.
[speaker001:] and if you wanna do something slightly different then do it in a role play scenario with a manager or a senior adviser and er get their feedback accordingly but I'd be te I wouldn't be tempted to do it in the real world....
[Joan:] He's also tried to change himself I think... and that I mean
[speaker001:] And that isn't you.
[Joan:] you're alright
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Joan:] there isn't, there isn't, there is nothing wrong with the way that you are
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Joan:] so you certainly don't try to change it.
[speaker001:] I mean look at the difference from that and Friday.
[Joan:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker001:] But does that mean that you feel intimidated by me then?
[Robert:] No no no no I just wanted to try a different s
[speaker001:] Right.
[Robert:] different things.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Joan:] I think we said to you on Friday erm both me and Roger actually [LAUGHTER] said that he [] he went into er he went in for the kill and he c [LAUGHTER] he came out with slaughter []
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Joan:] and, and that's not happened and, and he explained that that's what he was us that's what you were used to doing
[Robert:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Joan:] and both of us said he, he was, he was very good at it
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Joan:] erm er but it was, it was like the bits in between that he used to slot in, you know the erm... the referrals
[Robert:] to proceed. Yeah.
[Joan:] he never does that and that, and that's what we were saying on Friday and it seems like, and I think you've tried to put all those in but change yourself a bit.
[Robert:] Yeah. And, and it, it will work... now, as simple as that. And, and like with the objections... I would fire them straight down without... I concede that you've gotta say I can er understand you saying that, you know
[speaker001:] Well
[Robert:] this is what happens
[speaker001:] now that that'll become clear but just just
[Robert:] but I I acknowledge it... as they come they can fire at me every sentence and I
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] I will kick them straight down
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] erm
[speaker001:] I don't wanna say that's the right way to be honest
[Robert:] No. I can understand but er I'm, I'm used to just going
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] let's go for it... er but there I was going much slower and there was all this thoughts going on in my head and
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Mm. Yeah.
[Robert:] and, and that's er it's all the slowness which was doing me in.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Bill:] It was right at the very beginning when you had to ask him about the introduction, I thought you were going straight off from the business card and all the rest of it and what you actually had was your C C Q in front of you... because it took you all that time to get round to it.
[speaker001:] Yeah there was lots of bits of paper floating around it was, it was a
[Robert:] Yeah, that's right.
[speaker001:] a bit of a distraction really.
[Robert:] Mhm.
[Joan:] I think you just got thrown at the beginning and I think he you off and
[Robert:] That's right it was
[speaker001:] But then they will do that to you, that's, that's the annoying
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] thing. Mm.
[Robert:] It was
[Bill:] Thing was in fairness Martin er er it's actually the sociability side er both... both of you talked about the house didn't you and how, how long you came here and of course I changed it to how, the directions er which you gave me now
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Bill:] you may walk into a house and there's, it's loaded with trophies and you say och whose, ah these are nice trophies, who won these trophies
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] That's right.
[Bill:] it's totally
[speaker001:] There's something to focus on.
[Bill:] it's, that's right
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Bill:] there's something that you can just
[speaker001:] Yeah I agree with that.
[Joan:] In saying that though Robert... Martin did make it difficult for you.
[Robert:] No no I didn't mind that and I'm, I, I could, I could sit with that all day long, that wouldn't worry me, he wouldn't, he wouldn't beat me down... just
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Robert:] erm I would keep going so that, that doesn't worry me but it was all these other things I was trying
[Joan:] It's actually good
[Robert:] which
[Joan:] it's actually good practice having somebody like Martin then
[Robert:] Oh sure.
[Joan:] [LAUGHTER] because []... because at least he does throw the objections at you and... so at least you're made aware of what you
[Robert:] That's right.
[speaker001:] You learn nothing from a role play that's all easy-peasy
[Robert:] That's right so that's
[Joan:] I think
[Robert:] that's why I really wanted to try all these other avenues cos I'd watched them all and, and each one, no disrespect to any of them, but
[Joan:] We were predictable.
[Robert:] as, as they went on they got better.
[speaker001:] Well they will do, yeah.
[Robert:] You know like Bob, Bob
[speaker001:] You learn from each other.
[Robert:] went up there first and then so it got better and so it got better and, and Will was marvellous
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] there's no question about it and I thought well let's try the other way, let's, let's throw all this C C Q and, and all the rest of it to see how it... falls.
[speaker001:] Now you've had the, the benefit of hindsight which would you rather go with, the structured way or the, you know, the way you did it at the
[Robert:] I th I would go with these
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Robert:] much structured.
[speaker001:] Good.
[Joan:] I was er er there was something that I got told many years ago that I
[Robert:] And also sorry, excuse me... like the other points there... are you a smoker, no my wife does, she smokes twenty... was you a smoker
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Robert:] who knows?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] And, and about your wife
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Robert:] I mean I went straight in, tell me about your wife, I mean you could've said well she's not my wife
[speaker001:] Mm. Oh yes
[Robert:] and then we'd've gone down a different avenue
[speaker001:] It's the C C Q driving isn't it?
[Robert:] That's right.
[speaker001:] But that's lack of familiarity with
[Robert:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] with...
[Robert:] So
[Joan:] What I was going to say is I was told erm some time ago that praise doesn't mean anything without criticism and I actually believe that.... Praise doesn't mean anything without criticism.
[Robert:] But it, it just goes to show you that, you know if you, if... if you go down the structured way, it does work. Alright
[Joan:] Wouldn't wouldn't you agree with that though? Praise doesn't mean anything without criticism.
[Robert:] Oh I agree with you.... [music on video]
[Joan:] I've got that video tape.
[Bill:] Excuse me a second I'll just do a quick...
[speaker001:] Yeah sure, yes....