[speaker001:] Er, one from Elizabeth and one from Ron.
[speaker002:] One from Ron and one from Elizabeth.
[speaker001:] I've got erm, a letter from Ron in addition to his apologies.
[speaker002:] Right and you'll be reading that other report will ya?.
[speaker001:] Yeah,.
[speaker002:] Right. Er, minutes of the last meeting, can we take them as read?
[speaker003:] yes
[speaker002:] Thank you... Matters arising from that meeting which took place on the thirty first July.
[speaker001:] Many of the matters arising will come up in my report of correspondence.
[speaker002:] Mm, Mm... You might like to, when you come around to it Lilly, say that was on T V, that T V and benefits the er, our campaign.
[speaker001:] When's that?
[speaker002:] We have a few days to go to that looking into it now, so if, you know.
[speaker001:] Oh, soon. Are they? Oh.
[speaker002:] Yeah, we are doing some good.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker002:] You know the, coming home to the, it's all coming home to roost.
[speaker001:] On page one Harlow radio, I have written to them and erm with the nomination of Pauline and she has already been communicated with...
[speaker004:] Have you had the eh chair, have you had any reports on the bus company regarding the hand rails?
[speaker002:] None what's so ever.
[speaker004:] Safety rails, none what's so ever no.
[speaker002:] .
[speaker004:] That's typical, a really smoothy eh?
[speaker002:] I take it you've all read your minutes?
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Are there any further matters arising before we pass onto the next item on the agenda?... Right, could we have correspondence please secretary.
[speaker001:] Er do you want me to stand or can you hear alright?.
[speaker002:] No, no, I think they can hear alright. It's necessary for you to stand.
[speaker001:] Erm, the first one is a letter from Ron, he, he's in Milton Keynes with his family at the moment, on holiday, and he will be missing this meeting action tomorrow and unfortunately the September Executive, erm, he's reported on the erm market stall which I'll come to a bit later, I ask you for details about that and for the enclose with it erm, a statement issued by the association nationally on pensioner's and the Poll Tax. This is er a condemnation of the jailing and threat of jailing of pensioner's for pay failing to pay the Poll Tax. The Government has admitted that forcing the poorest of pensioner's who are on Income Support to pay twenty per cent of the proposed Council Tax would be Tax, would be wrong. It cannot therefore now justify that it was right to cause those same pensioner's to pay twenty per cent of the Poll Tax. The association cause for the ending of criminalisa criminalisation, the word, of pensioner's, who's only fault is their poverty, it is confident that the British people will support this cause and that their protest will be, speedily bring to an end a situation which is the shame of our Country, that's signed by the President of the British Pensioner's and Fred the Secretary. That's issued by the General Purposes Committee. The second, does anyone want to say any about that? it's just that they probably sent it to the appropriate people. There's another item of news, which erm, er Ron only got on the sixteenth August and it's about the pre-congress pensioner's march and rally, now the congress is held in Glasgow, so I think we weren't going to that one anyway, but it just giving details of erm the arrangements for the pensioner's march which we usually have, we usually attend if it's in the South anywhere, but that's just for information. The second item of erm correspondence is from Bromley's Bromley's Social Services, if you remember, we've got this on going campaign on home helps and along side that we've got erm, we did hear of t his home shopping erm campaign that Bromley do, apparently quite successfully, the MP has mentioned that, so I thought I'd get some details of that erm, it gives the whole procedure for, for the er shopping and the delivery and the Social Services pay out for it, they pay a charge, erm if you'd like this copied, I could get copies for the next meeting, but meanwhile I'd recommend that erm we take it up with Benefits Action tomorrow on the campaign. Do, do we agree with that?
[speaker002:] I agree with that, yes.
[speaker001:] It's just a general procedure of er ordering from, it's, it's limited to Asda and erm the general helpful way. They haven't said much about the cost, anything about the cost, and they haven't said whether, well they wouldn't would they?, [LAUGHTER], whether anyone was dissatisfied, cos I understand from my family that they have been met you know they have been raised in the press, but it's not a hundred per cent. The erm, second is minutes from Health Action, as you know, a lot of our members are concerned of Health Action, and they next meeting will be on the thirtieth September, with the Chief Execu Executive Kath Kathy, er, who will be speaking. Now with regard to that I'd rather feel that were gonna be called on before then, because of the rumours about our own hospital.
[speaker002:] What about?.
[speaker001:] Which are quite frightening about opting out, erm some of you will remember that we'd attended Welwyn Garden City on a picket a month ago, and erm as a result of campaigning there, within the hospital, with the press and the Council, they have been turned down so they are not being allowed to opt out. I also understand that Basildon has erm got the same fate, so you know, it looks as if were in for a campaign there. Perhaps Pauline you've got some news on that?
[speaker005:] Yes, erm if I could here, I did want to add some cos obviously I think everybody was taken by surprised.
[speaker002:] Come to the front Pauline.
[speaker001:] Yeah, we'd, we'd like to hear about it cos were all very worried, huh.
[speaker005:] Well on the issue of what's happening in the er Health Authority here, it's a very much erm a surprise to everybody because those of us who were at the last meeting that we had, only a couple of months ago, to quite categorically saying that, she, that she was just not interested in the. And apparently her view now is that because the Government ha have said, anybody who is interested in becoming a in nineteen ninety three, must register an interest on sixteenth this year, which is really, that's, you know, there legislating for what they haven't got any power in nineteen ninety three.
[speaker002:] Can't rely on that, can't rely on it.
[speaker005:] They've only been elected to nineteen ninety two, so they're, they're really, what there doing there forcing people to take some action now, because at Kathy says, she's afraid of being left out, if there should be a, another Tory Government, so a lot of people are in the same position, they will be putting in eh, I think they just call it best of interest, not a proper application, but then if the whole lot, hundreds of us come along, which is quite likely they will, the Government will say well this proves that everybody wants to become you see, so it's rather clever move, erm, as, as far as I'm concerned, what's happening with that she is eh here within the hospital, the consultant's and the worker's in the hospital. Also far as I know, there is no intention of discussion it with members of the public or patient's or union or anything like that. So as a result to that, there, there erm, there is going to be a public meeting on the tenth September, which is actually organised by the Labour party, erm, but obviously the who thing very worried about the attendance at that, erm the, have, had to organise it very quickly because he wants to get it in before the sixteenth, we'll still trying to get erm a National speaker, I'm hoping that Julie from the er, eh National Help Federation will be able to come, but she's on holiday till Monday erm, I don't.
[speaker001:] will go ahead whether we have a National speaker or not?
[speaker005:] I did wonder whether we ought to call a, a, a, sort of emergency meeting of Harlow Health Action, but I was away myself until last few days, so it's difficult to do that, so what we've are, I've agreed with Dave, the secretary, we've produced a leaflet, which is based on one of the Federations leaflet, it gives the reason to be against opting out. We just have used a simplified version of that. The one the Federation produced is very good, but a lot of reading in it, so, we wanted one we could hand out to people and the the intention is that we, we go on the market next week Thursday and Friday to hand out that leaflet, also to advertise the meeting on the tenth, erm, so that really is as far, and obviously the meetings that, that Lilly just said that Kathy 's coming, that would be an opportunity to erm you know, discuss it further with her. If they do go ahead and put the application in, which I think they will, then, that's the start of the process, so that's a good time when we will need to really step up the campaign and we will get National speaker's to meetings, we will get probably a petition, we will go round the area like we did over the er non funding, but we had to do something quickly, to, to make it clear, you know, we don't want this to go ahead. Erm, hopefully we'll have the same effect that 'em they had in Basildon and erm.
[speaker001:] Welwyn.
[speaker002:] Welwyn.
[speaker005:] Welwyn, er because that really is a good example. I'm actually also hoping to get, someone who was erm concerned at the campaign to come to the meeting, cos I think it would be very useful to have someone who's been through it and to say how, how they tackled it, so I think it should an interesting meeting, hopefully we'll get a few, you know interesting people to come along and we can spend from that meeting campaign. Erm, there's also, I just wanted to say a bit about the ambulance er.
[speaker001:] What, what date next week are they?
[speaker005:] It's the Thursday and Friday, that's the fifth and sixth, fifth and sixth?
[speaker002:] Er, yes, that's right.
[speaker005:] Between ten and two.
[speaker002:] Ah, that's, that's also, that's also the day the fifth is we, we will be at eh Basildon.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Ah.
[speaker001:] Well not all of us.
[speaker002:] Not all of us.
[speaker001:] Only five of us.
[speaker002:] But eh.
[speaker005:] Right, well, we'll have to, but you know if people have to let me know if they can turn up then.
[speaker002:] Sixth, yes, I can come on the Friday.
[speaker005:] Sixth is the Friday. Yeah, well I mean I think we need to get as many as possible.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] To turn up, who are not going to Basildon.
[speaker004:] What car they going in?
[speaker005:] Yes, well eh.
[speaker002:] Ten till two, usual?
[speaker005:] Ten till two, yes.
[speaker004:] Thursday and Friday.
[speaker005:] Thursday and Friday that's right.
[speaker004:] What time is it?
[speaker002:] Ten till two.
[speaker004:] The public meeting?
[speaker005:] The public meeting is on the tenth at, here, the Town Hall at eight o'clock.
[speaker004:] Town Hall, eight o'clock at night?
[speaker005:] Eight o'clock, yes.
[speaker002:] We've already got that haven't we?, we've already been told that haven't we?
[speaker005:] Well I. Erm, if I.
[speaker001:] Do you, do you want me Health Action Banner for that? cos I've got it at home.
[speaker005:] Ooh, yeah.
[speaker001:] The.
[speaker005:] I think the more things that.
[speaker001:] Only as we've lost the last one, I'm hanging on to, it's hanging in my wardrobe, I'm not making a third one
[speaker005:] Your hanging onto it Yeah. No. Erm, just if I could say about the, there's something next week also about the ambulance. The erm, we only just, this week discovered that the Regional Health Authority are going to consider the ambulance proposal next Wednesday.
[speaker001:] Ah, yeah.
[speaker005:] Were hoping to get a mini bus, I don't think we ought take a bus because we were very badly treated when we did that, we don't to allow ourselves open to that again, but I have written to say were hoping to get enough people to take a mini bus. If, in the mornings you remember, we, we started to leave, leave quite early about eight o'clock, cos the other bus were late. So if anyone's interested in going on that, get in touch with me or Dave, we'll erm, say we don't need to many but I think we can take a few and we will take our petition with us on that one, the animal petition.
[speaker002:] When is that one Pauline?
[speaker005:] That's next Wednesday, were get the.
[speaker004:] Pauline.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] They, they will have to pick us up I'm afraid, cos our pass is not valued till nine o'clock.
[speaker005:] Six o'clock, I mean it won't be very many people who's been invited so we can probably arrange that.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Erm, but at the moment were still looking for a driver.
[speaker002:] And that's next Wednesday?
[speaker005:] That's next Wednesday, if we don't get enough we'll probably just take a car, but, but anyway, there's going to be a lot going on actually on this.
[speaker001:] Could we indicate that if they can go.
[speaker005:] Yeah, anybody interested in, what, on, on Wednesday?
[speaker003:] About Thursday. Yeah, there's London. Eight o'clock in the morning.
[speaker005:] eight o'clock in the morning.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Where's it go?
[speaker005:] Going to London, to Regional Health Authority to attend present petition and to see what they do about the animals petition. If in fact where they decide whether to pass it on the.
[speaker003:] .
[speaker005:] Right, there's, one, two, three, four, five, six.
[speaker002:] And the other half, you know.
[speaker005:] Well actually that maybe enough because if get say Terry from Waltham Abbey
[speaker003:] That's the misses.
[speaker005:] and were hoping to get somebody from Bishop's Stortford I think it's important to have a, and I'm also going to ask Bob, the ambulance driver if he's free to come, I think we can use the. So I think that cover so if those people can.
[speaker004:] What.
[speaker005:] Well I think we can arrange to pick you up as we go at that time, you'll of eh, because I know that bus passes don't cover that.
[speaker002:] Dave driving is he?
[speaker005:] Well the problem is he has to say he has a licence for you, he hasn't so, it's possible that Terry will be.
[speaker002:] Ah, oh Terry, I see.
[speaker005:] Yeah, we'll still getting, trying to get in touch with him, but we'll find a driver one way or another.
[speaker003:] There's one from The Stow area.
[speaker005:] Yes, yes you, you can see him tomorrow that's a good idea those who can, can okay.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Filling up a blank week.
[speaker002:] Thank you Pauline, very, that er very good report on the Health Service.
[speaker001:] The next item of correspondence is just the minutes of benefits action and I, I think you'll mostly up to date on those, on that. At the last meeting erm... Sue gave a drafted, an open letter to Jerry Hayes. This is mainly dealing with the Social Fund which as you know, is erm,go undergoing changes, which means er loss of money and breaking up the fundings to twelve monthly amounts, which is creating great difficulties. If you apply to the fund at the beginning of the month you'll likely to get something, but hard luck if you apply later on in the month, but that she's taken up as an open letter to Jerry Hayes, but so far I haven't seen it in the press. Erm the budget increase is for Social Fund, for years, eighty seven and eight eight was two ninety five thousand, one hundred and ninety, under the new system in the first year it went down to fifty seven thousand one oh seven. As you know because of the activities of benefit's action over a couple of years, Social Fund in Harlow was quite good because we urged people to apply and Social Fund was then based on the year before's applications, but this doesn't apply now. Home help's we like, were meeting tomorrow and were hoping that Renee will come along and eh update us on things so that we can campaign again starting in October. Erm, mm excuse me. Now out, outside corres that's all the correspondence. Outside correspondence erm, the chairman and Archie have dealt with er erm, complaint from a member er I don't know the outcome of it, but it's a lady that they have seen. I have another query on the world women women's erm work from Margaret who isn't here I don't think this afternoon, and that was about erm you know the female test and the time taken for the results to come through. Well I, I've been on to world wom women's committee and they assure me that they, the hospital says these tests should come through in a week, at the most three week's, but you can phone them, so that certainly has improved, there doesn't seem to be a back log. We have another in... erm on Thompson's Directory, we said we were asked if we would like a mention there, and that has been put in hand, with at the moment the Chairman's name and address and telephone number, but when we get our office I've no doubt we can change that because we'll have a rota for the office and probably just morning hours and that can go in another copy. Now apart from that, we had a phone call from Mrs who's here at the moment and she'll probably, and I'll tell you what I've got on that. We had a phone call erm a year or two ago Mrs did a lot of work on this with petition's and so on about the costs of pensioner's for animal treatment, because the P D S A no longer operates in Harlow and the nearest one I think is Edmonton, which makes it impossible. At the time we took up the, the secretary took took up the matter and I got him to send us er a copy of the reply, and it, it appears that, as you know it's all voluntary and, and it relies charity for individuals, but I noticed, I only got this from Ron yesterday, paragraph here says, where the community demonstrates it's active support for such adventure, then there is an increase likelihood of the establish of a service, although it has to be said that there already exists a waiting list of communities eager to re receive P D S A support. Now I think, er and I'm sure that Mrs will, I've I've got other information as well, that we could, I, I, I'd like to recommend that we had an on going petition which could be in Welfare Rights, the Town Hall, The Libraries, but there's no, I don't think there's an opposition to such a thing, whereby we ask for a P D S A clinic in Harlow, I'm sure there's room round where they were sit, sited before, and I don't know, you know, I'd like to know what Mrs 's thinks, also I've got information er, a, following lots of phone calls erm there is an organisation called The Blue Cross, they have a clinic in Victoria and they're, they have a head office in Oxford and they will help if they know the name of the vet and have the invoice and I'm afraid it's tested, but they will help pensioner's and other low paid people to meet there bill's, so that's another outcome, while were doing the petition. What do you think of that?.
[speaker002:] Bitchy, bitchy, bitchy.
[speaker001:] Beryl are you? Is she here?
[speaker002:] Is Mrs in the audience today.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Ah, like, like to see who you are Mrs I see, thank you. [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] Have you got, have you got anything, you know, think we can take it further than that? Do you think we can take it further? Or shall, what do you think of haven't it petitioned?
[speaker006:] Well, I, I heard from Inspector yesterday.
[speaker001:] Who?
[speaker006:] Inspector.
[speaker002:] Yeah, Inspector.
[speaker006:] I phoned him yesterday, and er, I ask him whether it was right that er what I suspected, that the er vets, the private vets, there with a union, you will not get the R S P C A, they work on there on behalf. They beg you. They have to erm, first of all ask er R S P C A funding it, which is very much against anyway because I, I hate being humiliated by the this way. So if it's a P D S A clinic you wouldn't have to do that you can just give er.
[speaker001:] No you just contribute mm.
[speaker006:] Erm, you've got that to tend with and erm on top of that erm, you can't ware of if you've got a pass yes, I, you've then have to er, get, you know, whether though it'll be going to a and at the moment there suppose to be very, very low so they can't do that any more and then you'll have to, the vet will then do the treatment for the animal, but again you don't get the vet you'll only get the training vet's to do the job and then they reclaim from the R S P C A, so it, no way that they haven't got any funds.
[speaker003:] Oh, see, so that they get there full.
[speaker001:] Well there doing this for fund, of course funding for everything even church.
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] Going down, if not stop for the thing. But what, what do you think about erm demanding er erm a P D S A place in Harlow?
[speaker006:] Well, I, I, I have asked for that, I've written to the P D S A, I've written to the.
[speaker001:] Well, we have too, yes.
[speaker006:] You have also?
[speaker001:] When we, when we first took it up Beryl we did that.
[speaker006:] That's right, I've, I've been through over the year's I've been doing this and they say, whether it's because they know if the background at the er vets, the private vets there, you know I don't know, but the information I get from them, that there'd a, there not prepared to over.
[speaker001:] Well this, this was a letter of the, granted it was eighty nine, but I mean this paragraph just said, you know, if we, does say that, you know, if we established a, a demand, and I don't see why we shouldn't have a bash at.
[speaker006:] Well then I have the inspector.
[speaker001:] I mean, if we have a petition like they do on the counter in Welfare Rights in the Town Hall, I don't think there be any opposition to that and the Libraries for the setting up of a P D S A branch, you know, I don't see why, why we shouldn't give it a try.
[speaker003:] There is one at the Wych Elm still open.
[speaker001:] Pardon.
[speaker003:] That R S P C A at Wych Elm.
[speaker006:] At Wych Elm.. I, I asked the inspector yesterday.
[speaker003:] Yeah, only.
[speaker006:] Is, is it possible that we could have a, a vet, a R S P C A vet and take, uses that hut even two days a week would be a great help to the pensioners.
[speaker001:] But, then.
[speaker006:] And all he said, the whole of.
[speaker001:] Mm, Mm.
[speaker002:] I was sep separate and apart from that, they would have to have a operating room and a dispensary there, you see that's what they would have to have, I mean, if there gonna have P D S A premises, this is what you've got to have, cos very often the animal has to be put under and all sorts of things, you know what I mean, it wouldn't be just an office with say like a physician and a tenants, it would be a case of a, a surgery and things in that nature which would be required by, er quite a number of animals.
[speaker003:] Mm, that.
[speaker002:] So your talking about a big space, your not talking about a small office. That's what we've got to take into consideration.
[speaker003:] Mm. Yeah.
[speaker006:] Well anyway, whatever I I tried to get him to erm, cos I've written again to the newspaper, I've tried to get him to confess that, that the unions are the biggest because erm, even then I said to tell him well supposing that we could get, I said, erm you know the money to support you, I said just supposingly I said would be private vet, and he said what you dare say they would have to have there.
[speaker002:] When there, when you say a union, what do you mean a union in a true sense of the word, or do you mean an organisation, which is something va vastly different because they way your, they way your saying this to me, this doesn't sound like a union at all. This, this sounds very much like some, er organisation based on the establishment to me that's what it sounds like which eh, were one would expect.
[speaker006:] Sorry, the only one I eh, I eh got this idea was when I first took this up I went into the hut in the town, and I picked up the booklets, you know that they have on the counter, and in one of these booklets it had that the vet's were now I don't know what I'm, I'm very lost for everything like this, but they've kept and therefore if your animal needed, your pet needed treatment it would be done by the private vet's and eh,mon the money would be re would be reclaimed by the vet from the R S P C A, and I think that gave to erm.
[speaker002:] Well, what I think I shall do now is I think I should take this a little further about this union business, I think I should get in touch with Dave, the Editor of the T U C to find out what the exact position of these, this so called union is because it doesn't sound like a union to me, it sounds, it sounds like an.
[speaker003:] ..
[speaker002:] It sounds like an association.. He would be able to find, they would be able to find out what they are.. I'm talking about the unions.
[speaker007:] I mean the resources then.
[speaker002:] Yeah, the resource teller.
[speaker007:] .
[speaker002:] Yeah, he would be able to find out what type of union this is, or whether it's some establishment association, we try quite frankly, I, I, I think it is. From the way this lady spoke it seems to me like, like a that, that sort of er organisation, from the establishment.
[speaker003:] Another things is.
[speaker002:] We'll have to make of this because we can't keep.
[speaker001:] . Just say we go ahead with the decision.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker006:] Now that I had to get it to the by taxi and she had seven stitches put in the leg and, I had to leave her there for six hours, well then it was a taxi back home, I couldn't now I am on income support, but that cost me fifty four pound, ninety five and I am paying that.
[speaker002:] Mm, well look, what I'm going to say to you know is, time marches on, that, do you agree that we go ahead with what Lillian's suggesting?
[speaker001:] That we try out a petition throughout all the centre's in the town.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yes.
[speaker002:] All those in agreement raise. Right, carried, so that's what we'll do, okay.
[speaker001:] Erm, erm, do, do you have, have you got erm, Beryl have you got the Blue Cross address in Oxford?
[speaker006:] Yes, I've got plenty.
[speaker001:] Okay, well if you've got it, that's alright, I'll see you afterwards.
[speaker002:] After, after the meeting. See her after the meeting, next business.
[speaker001:] Erm, can I go on now, to erm.
[speaker002:] Oh wait, I've got a, you'll pull yourself a fair enough.
[speaker001:] . Erm.
[speaker002:] We'll move it, start weekend, speed it up a little.
[speaker001:] Erm, due erm [knocking] there's also as you know, we've, we've had the chartered petition on the market and we are going on with that. The, it was officially launched in London yesterday at Ken's House, unfortunately neither of the two officer's could go, it was rather short notice, but it has been officially launched now as a national thing. Erm, there's a question of a rally in Central Hall, now in order to organise this pensioner's rally there short of funds, erm, I think the executive will be discussing this and as, as before we did give them quite a considerable donating, because it costs a thousand pounds to hire the centre hall and we do want to erm take part in a very big rally, like the last one was. Erm, erm, apart from the meeting last week the last, last month, er one of our mem one of our members noticed that erm we hadn't got a delegate to age concern and she volunteered, that's a Mrs would you like to okay that cos the Chairman and I speaking to her thought well this was a good idea and I have forwarded her name to age concern who've contact her. Is that all right?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Erm, we, we couldn't nominate anyone at the A G M, no one was willing to do it. Erm, oh god, the next item is the Essex Region and erm that was just a report from Norfolk on the success of it. Erm, from the E C were, we've decided to hold the usual Christmas social and Peggy and myself will organise as before with the usual conscripts, you know, the usual team of workers, volunteers I mean.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Erm unfortunately we can only have this room not the canteen this year.
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] I will be writing to the normal firms as usual, to get donations for the raffle, er now the other thing I've got to report from is the stall, no before that the E C discussed applications by other organisations, now Sheffield and erm many other areas produce there own excellent publications, so I, I wrote of to Greater London Pensioner to Redbridge, to Senior Citizens in Sheffield, Anglian Pensioners, Grey Power and erm I, I've sent letter's to them and already had some copies back from Sheffield. Whilst on the market stall I had a Liverpool pensioner who hadn't seen a Liverpool organisation so when I got home I sent to her a notice of the huge rally there going to hold in September, in Liverpool with a couple of Bishop's and big national speakers, I sent that to her and also contacted a Liverpool pensioner secretary to get in touch with her, and we've also written to erm, that's the rally, erm, we've also, I've also written to Jim from Cumberland, if you remember er his down our rally, so we should have some, we decided to buy twelve copies of each publication they produce and one when we get our office will be available there.
[speaker002:] On file, on file.
[speaker001:] Erm, dum, dum, the market stall as you know, we didn't have it in the market, we had it on the thank goodness because we parked it in the shade, erm during that period we got five hundred and thirty two signatures, with three or four more of you it could of been a thousand, erm we also got fourteen pounds, seventeen in donations, all completely unasked for cos as you know, we don't take money. Erm so two pounds of that went with sale with the sale of the journal and so we can say we had twelve pounds unsolicited donations, erm as Peggy would back me up if she was here, saying that [drilling noise] any time you ask someone to sign the flood gates open with what they thought about the position of pensioners, in fact we've probably got a lot more signatures if they hadn't, but erm, we did pick up, we, I picked up the news about Welwyn Garden City's cost of and things like that not going through and erm [LAUGHTER], erm, now, our month our monthly, our monthly stall will not be on the third third Thursday this year, it will be on the fourth to co-inside with the week were celebrating pensioner's week, which is a week behind National. Erm that means we have a stall on Tuesday the twenty fourth, Wednesday we've got our meeting here with the speaker about, were having Mike speaking on Czechoslovakian now and he'll be telling us his experiences over there and his had a long association with Czechoslovakia and Harlow and Thursday were having a market stall with a jazz band and Norman could probably tell us more about that. Do you want to go ahead with the Tuesday stall?
[speaker003:] A, the Tuesday stall was a bit debatable at the moment because what has happened is, I heard from the er from Mr Stuart that he, he thought that er could assist us and that I should go over there and see them. I did do that along with Ron and er they were speaking in terms of er a conjurer at under a pound a time and thing of that nature which should then come to a the pensioner's category at Poole, so I took it back to Stuart and he said oh see what I can do Norman, and at the present moment it rests there because I haven't been able to contact Stuart at the moment owed to the holiday, but I shall be contacting him and hopefully we will also be doing two days, which is the Tuesday and the Thursday, also what they, er, he's, he's promised to do is to come half way with the cost of the jazz band, which is a great help. Er, so you can say that er Mr is a friend of pensioner's, he said, he said he would be prepared to, what I, I, I approached him and said er, what about Harlow Caring Council, are they prepared to assist the pensioners in any way or do they wish to join in on this, oh yes he said, of course Norman he said, how much are you paying er Ron I said well his asking forty pound for the, for the morning, oh he said I'll go half way with that, then he came out and said to me, pull me up afterwards and ask me to go to leisure services about the Tuesday, and so I'm still following that up and hopefully we will have two days on pensioner's week, because you want to have as much impact as possible and in a few moments, when I nearly finished here, I shall be reading you something where you'll see that it is important that we make an impact on the people of Harlow.
[speaker001:] Erm one of.
[speaker003:] It is the twenty fourth of September isn't it?
[speaker001:] Yes, twenty fourth.
[speaker003:] Well, it'll, it'll be the er, the twenty fourth and the twenty sixth.
[speaker001:] With our meeting in between.
[speaker003:] With our meeting in between.
[speaker001:] Erm, one of the things we had on the stall is erm this erm application form for N H S charges, now many people including probably people here don't know that erm, you don't have to be on supplementary to get help and Ann knows actually, er if your getting any rent or rate rebate and you fill this in, you'll get some help, in some cases quite considerable help, and I suggested that we had some of these on our store room, got some from Welfare Rights, and they went like hot cakes, because most people didn't know about this, so following that we shall have, we shall keep these on our stall and I've more or less suggested that Lisa on Age Concern in the Leah Manning should have them there because she's constantly getting enquiries on that, so she is going to do that. Erm so it's, it has been very useful. On news mobility, I had a copy of that last month and I've ordered twenty on each publication. Erm during the executive erm Mary raised a point from the joint planning team about the erm charter and the remarks made by Dr. on that, would you like to say something on that Mary? because we want to take some action.
[speaker008:] I to each other. I, I would like the association to write to this is from the. Members agree that proposal continue on in the ideal although it was commendable to set high standards. Dr. said it was a matter of trying to make a correct differential between right and whatever that means, and that the charter might tend to induce our views as defenders, instead of.
[speaker003:] That's right. That's right.
[speaker008:] Dr. our would like to know what other. I like a reply..
[speaker002:] Pensioner's charter.
[speaker003:] I gave it, I gave it too them.
[speaker002:] .
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think, I think erm, what about this reply?
[speaker002:] Yeah, we'll get.
[speaker008:] on the twenty sixth of this month.
[speaker002:] Twenty sixth of this month.
[speaker008:] If you could definitely.
[speaker001:] Twenty sixth of August?
[speaker008:] No, sorry about that September.
[speaker002:] September.
[speaker008:] It's the last Friday in er September.
[speaker002:] The last Friday.
[speaker003:] Er, that's the twenty seventh, Friday.
[speaker001:] Well can.
[speaker008:] Pardon.
[speaker001:] Can erm, do you think Mary we can get together on reply on this?
[speaker008:] I do hope so, idea's terrific on it.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think so.
[speaker008:] I, I don't think I could do it, I'm a.
[speaker002:] Well how about waiting until.
[speaker001:] I didn't mean for you to do it, but erm.
[speaker008:] Don't leave it too long Norman.
[speaker002:] Well yeah, I mean, your in the second week aren't ya? And you've got plenty of time, you've got a fortnight elapse between the two, we can come up with ideas, like the idea of that?
[speaker008:] Well I think the ideas should come from the members, well what do they think about it? I think it's great.
[speaker002:] Would you?
[speaker008:] I, I.
[speaker002:] If it's got to come to the members, it's gotta come today.
[speaker008:] Well I've a, you know, what I've said.
[speaker001:] I've, I'll get Dr. remarks in the minutes, there actually stated in the minutes.. Yeah, well, then we can, we can add an organisation er state where the charter, that it was launched yesterday, nationally and the people who were there at there launch, which I think.
[speaker008:] Yes, it.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I think, I haven't got details of that, but I think erm Ron has and also the fact that we've taken remarks and.
[speaker002:] Yeah, very much so.
[speaker003:] I mean, what's this small in the Daily Mail erm yesterday? you know, it makes it. I read it, yeah. .
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, that's right, can I read something out now then?
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, well.
[speaker002:] Now.
[speaker001:] Can we finish this off?
[speaker002:] Right, yeah, you, finish, finish of Lilly.
[speaker003:] I like to independence with economics, you don't have your independence without economic independence.
[speaker002:] That's right.
[speaker003:] That's what my.
[speaker002:] That's right, year.. I.
[speaker003:] There are people who have a good pension when there in retirement, don't there department, I'm the only one that's elected.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker003:] I'm elected from the in West Essex. You nominated me.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] And elected by I represent all the bodies in West Sussex.
[speaker001:] Oh anyway, the charter has found it's way into the Daily Mail, Ann brought a small cutting and erm.
[speaker003:] .
[speaker001:] Mm..
[speaker002:] Yeah.. Yeah.
[speaker003:] And what about this bit about.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker003:] If between right and.
[speaker002:] She's got to.. Ah?
[speaker003:] That's taken sarcasm to me. Sounds like. When, when a we were discussing it with said to me oh you don't believe in, he meant ah and I. You don't get any er help at all.
[speaker002:] Right, have you finished now?
[speaker003:] .
[speaker002:] Can we go ahead, or not? Can we go ahead.
[speaker001:] Well it's up to you.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] What'll you suggest?
[speaker003:] .
[speaker002:] I've had a..
[speaker003:] But we do, we were in the.
[speaker002:] Oh Jesus Christ.
[speaker001:] We've still got some more.
[speaker002:] Oh go on then.
[speaker001:] Two more things. Erm.
[speaker002:] But keep me out of it.
[speaker001:] Erm, the last thing is, no, we, I don't want to stop the Chairman cos he's got something else as well. Erm Mary indicated at the last executive that she wants to retire from C H C [drilling noise] and she would like Pauline to take her place, have you an nomina, a nominee from here?
[speaker005:] Yes, this er nominating me, but again I.
[speaker001:] So who, who do we write to, to change erm.
[speaker005:] Secretary.
[speaker001:] Secretary of whom?
[speaker005:] I'm [drilling noise].
[speaker001:] So we write to the Secretary of C H C.
[speaker005:] [drilling noise].
[speaker001:] Mrs okay. And did people agree with that nomination.
[speaker005:] I've done it for seven years.
[speaker002:] Pauline..
[speaker003:] I think it'll be good for Pauline she gets a lot of information. I, I think it would be a very good for Pauline to go on. Yeah. And while were doing that, we should thank Mary for her seven years stint that she's done on. Yeah.
[speaker008:] We did ask Dorothy to do it after I did it for four years, but she wasn't keen and I had to go on.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] And that's all I've got to report which has been quite a busy month.
[speaker002:] I've had a letter from our Ken He writes, pensioners are now, are growing vi vital contingency including many active gift enable people with other use, there often made to feel unwanted, there commonly neglected and there needs are seldom frequently met. At last that is being fixed. So I won't go through the rest of it, it's a long and er it's just brought us on the same sort of thing, but what it proves is that we are getting somewhere and that is what I thought was rather important news, which I want to do.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] To, to Angie you know, I mean a, were alright, we've got plenty of local issues, but I mean when we think of the, the big issues, these are the big issues that need to be looked into. Right madam secretary.
[speaker001:] That's all.
[speaker002:] That's all from you so can we have the financial report and you will switch off sir. Are we ready, have we finished tea?
[speaker003:] yes
[speaker002:] Have we been the cups, if so. [tape turned over] Our speaker for this afternoon is a lady who I very much respect her, that's Ms, Mrs, or Miss Chris from the local unit. [clapping]. Chris.
[speaker001:] Thank you, thank you Norman. Erm I do recognise some faces, I know some of you recognise me and eh cos we've done quite a lot of things together, but this afternoon what I'm going to tell you about is how I fit in with Council, I don't think any of you know that or know what the Local Government Unit is. Erm, so, I'm gonna start off by talking about the Local Government Unit, where it fits in the Council organisation. Were, we're not attached to any sort of department, like housing or leisure, were actually in the organisation, were in the general management department and were not alone erm, the planning er originally the general manager's department and the winners and equality unit are in that department as well and the general manager has his own erm policy, officer and secretarian, so were in the general manager's department and in other Council's that would be known as the Chief Executive Department. Other Council's like Harlow do have central policy units which is what we would be described as, because people recognition that it's important that you need to have people who are outside departments looking at the organisation as a whole, what it's doing, where it's going, how it's being influenced by external organisation's, i.e. what the Health Service are doing locally, or what the Government's doing more significantly, erm, I think you need people looking around to see how the Council's affected and what, what were doing in and taking an overall view and responding in that way and that's the kind of thing that we do and that's why were here. Erm, I understand that erm somebody from the unit has had talked to your group before, but it's just as well to come and talk to you again because we've changed the Local Government Unit, not the same erm, unit that it was when we were first introduced, we've grown basically [LAUGHTER]. We've grown and erm brought other people, integrated other people in in with us. The person that is, is head of our unit is, is Carol and she's known as Principal Policy Co-Ordinator and she report's directly to the General Manager Der Erm, then we have three teams within the Local Government Unit, we have a Policy Team and I'm the team leader for the Policy Team and I'll talk about, I'll talk about our work later, but it's just to explain who we are. Then there's the Neighbourhood Development Team and that team is principally working on implementing the Council's decentralization and democratisation policy, opening local officer's, setting area committee's, some of, you maybe familiar, erm with that initiative I'm sure you are. That team deals principally with that and then there's the Community Development Team headed by John who worked with particular groups in the town. Now the reason why we've come together and this has been a recent change and it's been this year, erm is because there are overlaps without going into deep detail, there are overlaps in our work and we were working together as officer's anyway, but not as well as we should, so what we decided to do was formally integrate the three teams under the same unit, and we do have regular er internal meetings, management team meetings consisting of John, Pete me and Carol and we so we more co-ordinate the work for all the teams much more systema systematically, that we know what everybody's doing and that way we believe we can use best use of resources we've got most effectively. Then within the team's, in the Policy Team there were three Policy Development Officer's, in the Neighbourhood Development Team there were two Development Officer's and in the Community Development Team there are one, two, there are well there are normally six officer's that you could I that you could identify, but there are other people that relate to them, but then it gets a bit complicated so were keep it at that. The the great, the one thing about the Community Development Team to point out is that, they've got people working on pa particular in particular ways with the community. We've got two officer's for example who are leading on working the young people in the town, Youth Development Officer's er we, the Local Government Unit has a policy team initiated work on the youth policy, and this arose out of erm a member seminar's, September eighty nine, where er the members felt that really the Council wasn't doing enough for young people, that we as a Council, not not to think about young in the way we deliver our services and it was felt that we needed to go out and talked to young people, which we did in the winter of that year, erm and find out what they wanted from us, and the res as a result of that, that, that policy, and that consultation exercise has now developed into a front line service where we have two people full time working with young people in the town and that's on various things, graffiti project, the underpasses in the town we, which have got graffiti type I mean I know there not everybody's cup of tea, but I mean they way. when we erm, er when we were doing those projects we erm, we had a comments book and more, more people were in favour of them and saw them as an improvement to the town and so it needs something that's really interesting actually, it's er, erm the work's department have said, as a result of those graffiti projects they can shift two officer's from the graffiti team to the highway's team, so it's actually cut down on the work of actually clearing up unwanted graffiti, so it's had a positive effect, so we, we've got these two people work with the other people and we've got Dorothy who's working with, with black people and ethnic minorities in the town and erm for people who were here when this presentation was last given, er Robin who used to be in the local The Policy Team of the Local Government Unit is now actually a Community Development Officer, one of the decision's, Robin use to do video work for the Authority erm, and we decided we asset whether the the need for that kind of, k ind of work to continue, and we thought on balance not erm and he now is running the music rehearsal space over at Latton Bush, that again is a project for young people, to enable, it's a place where band's can practice and that's the problem in Harlow erm and er that's really exciting project because it's bringing in a lot of income for the Council as as well as providing the service that people want and, and it, I mean it is important at this time that we are doing limited projects where we are bringing in income, cos at, you know we estimate that erm we can get that erm rehearsal space properly resource, that project could be self financing, so your providing a service but your also getting paid, your getting paid for as well, so erm that is who we are now and were er, where were located, we have an open door policy as people will know. Were in the, the first floor of the Town Hall, erm along the corridor with, where the General Manager's office is and most of us can be found in there, so erm it is, I just think it's interesting for you to see how the things link up because, those of you that have contact with the Community Development Team will know that over at Latton Bush there is a Community Resource Centre, er that you can use, well that's linked in with us, and we provide information for us, so it's important that you know that if you go there, you also can have a connection with the Local Government Unit as as well, as a whole like the Policy Team if you, if you want information or anything. So it's just the, give you the background to show how were linked, so that's who we are and how we organize, is that clear, has anybody got any questions.
[speaker003:] Yeah, what's happen to the Steering Committee?
[speaker001:] What's happened to the Steering Committee?
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] What the Local Government.
[speaker003:] Erm it doesn't meet.
[speaker001:] No it doesn't meet any more.
[speaker003:] Not at all.
[speaker001:] No. It, there, there hasn't, I came here in, when I came here in February eighty nine it was meeting to, and the idea being to discuss particular things, to get particular things off the ground, but it has, I think the reason why it, it didn't continue to meet was because it wasn't felt necessary basically.
[speaker003:] The problem is the people from the community the and that's important.
[speaker001:] Yes it's difficult.
[speaker003:] It means that your, you officer are running the whole show now.
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker003:] And that, without input from the community.
[speaker001:] Well except that we do, I mean in in offence erm we don't get it from that particular forum, but I wouldn't say that, that is how we operate.
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker001:] Because the Local Government sub committee does, does. I mean deliberately the actual community itself was set up, so it does have representation from the, the community.
[speaker003:] Put. Mm.
[speaker001:] I'm, I'm certainly as I was going to come on to explain and the way you will see ourselves working, is not people who sit in the Town Hall and just turn out reports, I mean the kind of work we do and the way we work means that were actually very much involved in the community groups, but I mean if it was, if it was thought to be an issue that we needed to have greater community involvement, i.e. to resurrecting that forum then that's something that, you know, we may need to address, but I never saw it as operating like that anyway, I mean I saw it as it's almost like in a cabinet of members mainly..
[speaker003:] We were disappear.
[speaker001:] That's right, they get on the subject.
[speaker003:] Well I think that how it came.
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker003:] Can't remember them.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] What's is was what he was doing at the main committee anyway.. Well I think that er, you know, just didn't happen like that though, except things like that in one way and.
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker003:] .
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Well I still miss it.
[speaker002:] I think the er, the sort of looked after her as well, especially in the evening times.
[speaker003:] Mm, yeah.
[speaker002:] Er, we go through Old Harlow.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] The people sort of eight o'clock, nine, and there just congregating by the Health Service there, anything night and I think a lot of the trouble.
[speaker001:] That's right.
[speaker003:] Got to do something.
[speaker001:] That's something we, we, that's what we found and one of the things we have got is this youth bus actually operating in the town and it erm, it's running three nights a week, we can't cover every bit of the town, but it goes to different area's of the town, The Stow, and Old Harlow, I mean we've actually got quite good relationship's with, with, with the young people in Old Harlow, but erm, I mean we can't cover every night, I mean there is a problem, of erm, you know, you you get from a position where you recognise it, you, you, you need to start catering for a particular group and it takes a long time getting there. I mean as, as a, the fact is that, like providing services for the young people is legally the responsibility for Es of Essex County Council.
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] And, and, you know, they've got paid youth officer's working in Harlow, now they are, there are, they're over they're over stretched it's true and, but we, I mean what were doing here is actually supplementing there service and were not meeting all, we wouldn't of erm meeting all the demands, but the important thing I think is that were continuing to erm, you know, were trying to do something about it, and one of the things that were trying to do as officer's in the Local Government Unit is work with Leisure Services and get them to put more resources into doing things for young people.
[speaker003:] You see, this, where we young we've had all the youth organisations which most of us belong to, that's all we had in those days.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] . And if you went to films. . That's all the organisations there were. We went to church.
[speaker002:] ..
[speaker001:] That's right, well actually, one of the documents that we produce, I haven't brought it along with me today, was a report, when we did the consultation, we, we produced erm, eh I mean we talked to young people and got their views on a whole range of areas, transport, housing, facilities, and we, we produced it in, in this news report, and it's very, rates were very interesting.
[speaker003:] I use the.
[speaker001:] Erm, read it, erm that's right. What does the, what does the youth bus actually do it, except go round on four wheels, I mean what's it's function?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] What's it's functions?. When it goes, I mean I'm speaking as a resident of The Stow and I know there's lot's of complaints and shop keepers and er people in the flats and that round you know the shops there and you do feel a bit intimidated if you walk through The Stow at night. Yep, yep. Erm, which is a shame because as kid's we all hung around street corners and cafe's and things. Well actually, the function of the youth bus is like in the absence of buildings in, in area's where people want to go, it's fulfilling that function, on the bus there are things like videos, people can play music, they also get erm, you know, we don't just let them do what they want to do, although were, you know, where quite erm, quite progressive with them, we actually provide, we have information on the the bus, provide information, we've got a Coun we involve local Councillor's like on Aids and stuff like that, I mean you have to be quite sensitive when you do something like that, you know especially if, you know, with the age group, erm, but erm, you know you get younger people coming on, twelve year olds to thirteen year old and what not. But I mean they are there to provide advice and we do get an awful lot of case work. Mm. You know, young, homeless people we pick up on this bus and er, we have, we we've sort of ended up pursuing their cases with the housing department and getting temporary accommodation.
[speaker003:] And do you ask there opinions about what they want?
[speaker001:] Eh, yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Continually, continually. But I mean we also, we, I mean we're providing a service for them to allow them to come on off the street, use the bus, right, but at the same time were trying to provide services for them because one of the things that came out in a consultation was, young people didn't feel that there was enough information for them in the town. They didn't feel for example they could go into the advice centre, they didn't feel it was for them.
[speaker003:] Mm.
[speaker001:] And so erm, the youth bus is, is trying to fill that gap, it's not ideal, because what we actually want to do is get the advice centre to provide some information and to look at ways they can open up to young people.
[speaker003:] Yes Yeah, this was brought up last night at the meeting at of Old Harlow and Potter Street er forum.
[speaker001:] Aha.
[speaker003:] And it was brought up last time that erm, in the Potter Street area, not enough was being done to occupy the minds of the Yeah. And there is nowhere in that area for them to go. No.
[speaker001:] Mm. mm.
[speaker003:] And it was stressed quite strongly.
[speaker001:] Well that's good, I think that's really encouraging because it, it can't, you see, this is the sort of an example of the way our work goes, right. We in the Policy Unit say we, we, members raise something and we get onto it and say right, this is how we can tackle it. The big step is then getting the rest of the Council to take it on board, that's the big step, you know, leisure, the neighbourhood office's, I mean the neighbourhood office's are quite good, I mean they've got a, they've got a budget, a development budget, and like in Katherines and Sumners I know that a large proportion of the development budget there went on projects for young people, you know, so there are using there money.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So, erm, I mean, that was, we thought I came to a discussion about young people which is really good and it really did have people in your age group interesting.
[speaker003:] We are very interested.
[speaker001:] But that's er, [LAUGHTER] that's.
[speaker003:] We've all been young.
[speaker001:] I mean that's what we're doing on the Council for, but.
[speaker003:] We've been there. We've, we've all been tearaways.
[speaker001:] But, if I can.
[speaker002:] Ssh, [banging table].
[speaker001:] If I can I'll be.
[speaker002:] Quite please.
[speaker001:] General level and talk about the Local Government Unit and what are erm, what, how I see our main areas of work, right. How I would classify them. Erm, the first thing you do is a central policy thing, a major function is to analyze, interpret and develop strategic responses responses to all major Government legislation. When it, and the Government can produce fifty pieces of legislation affecting local government since nineteen seventy nine, I haven't been here since nineteen seventy nine thankfully, so I have to analyze everything, but they always landed our the ma the major ones and, so for example erm, it was the Local government Unit that produced the initial response of the Poll Tax, what strategy the Council should adopt er, the Council won't distance approach, we wanted to make it clear that the Poll Tax was a Government erm, it was a Government initiative and it was being forcedly on us and that was the way, did that effect it, that was a guided and then there was the nineteen eight nine local Government Housing Act, which I'm sure many of you. Familiar with, which is basically the piece of legislation, which is still in force now and still a major problem for us, which is about getting Council Rent's up to the level of private sector rent's and forcing Council's to do that. Erm and it, it was us, I mean not only do we, I mean we develop her a a response, that means, we, we work with Councillor's we work with Senior Officer's in other departments and we look at the policy angles, like for example with, with that piece of legislation, when, when we first realised what the impact for that legislation was, it was gonna mean that we were ten million pound short in our housing money basically, that was, that was what it looked like on the surface and you think oh my god how you gonna make up for that short fall, that would mean an eleven pound a week rise in rent, that's what it worked out as, so, well we can't do that, how, and then you have to look at the legislation and you say what are the loop holes here, and erm, and it involves contacting outside organisations and getting there opinion and finding out what other Council's are doing and responding to things like this, and we did come up with a way, of, of reducing that deficit, but that's the kind of thing we do. At the same time we were organising meeting's to tell local people about it and to get there views and to make it clear again that we were, you know, we were in a position where we were being forced to do something by this legislation that we didn't want to do and we wanted just, the alternative was if we had set a rent rise, which have been dramatically higher, I mean the four pounds, twenty five rent rise that we eventually had to agree to was higher than what the Council wanted to put the rent's up by, you would think well the Council put the rent's up by four pounds, twenty five, erm, and you know, that, that's why the Council does that sort of thing but it's us that gets involved in that kind of work, producing information and developing responses and then the secon d major area is what I've just labelled a strategic policy development, and that mainly erm put policies that are like a rise within the Council rather than things that come from outside, like for example, because were the kind of Council we, we are, there was a debate amongst officer's and member's to develop an anti poll strategy and two hundred and eight thousand pounds was found to be linked to that strategy and erm, as that's enabled various initiative's to get under, under schemes, crashes for children in the town, stuff like that, er and also, erm to provide an overall policy frame work for other Council department's. Like when there considering how there gonna spend there money every year, they should have reference to this policy cos general Council policy like, how can I spend my money to redistribute resor resources, so that we can provide more for people who are in need, so it isn't just about projects, it's about a policy and we develop those kind of things, we've already talked about the Unit Policy and we developed that. Other things we get involved in as a Central Policy Unit. Things like, it was us who set up the Benefits Unit in the Town Centre, you know, we, it was considered that you know we as a neutral policy team are in without departmental buyers rather than political buyers, that's a joke, erm, [LAUGHTER] would be the best people to erm, er set up this unit, we don't have any less interest, the benefit's, the benefit's felt within the housing department with with the introduction of Poll Tax and the Poll Tax benefit, it wasn't clear where that could go, so we were the people who had to sort that out. One of the other the other things that we will erm be taking responsibility for is, is something called the Front Line Review which I want to come back too, because it's something that will interest you as a group erm, but that's basically again a Council learn initiative, where the Council's want to look at over the next month all of the front line services we provide, the, the services that you come into contact with on a day to day erm level and look at, you know, are we providing a service as you want, are we providing them efficiently, how would you like to see them better provided. It's a way of as a Council taken the position that we ought to be spending your money effectively, right. It's also tied to the fact that were, we have less money than we used to because of the introduction of Poll Tax, it is tied to that cos we are constrained but, erm that's the kind of thing that we get brought into to support, erm and then another area is progressing policy initiative's in other Council departments. In other Authorities you may have whole research and policy sections in the particularly departments, like a housing research and policy section. In this Council we don't have, it's not organised like that. Department's tend, eh, the actual service department are very much what I would call practitioner lead, you've got just people there doing there job and there've been doing there job for years, and that's you know, there not, the very rare thing today, erm, thinking of policy sense about the way in which they could change that service, you just get on and do what they've always been doing. Erm, so, the, given any organisation should always be looking at what it's been, it's doing to see whether, what it's doing, erm, it should continue to do, you know, whether the, whether the services is a defunct or whatever, or whether we could provide it in a, erm in the most up to date way, the most progressive way. We as a as a policy unit get involved in that kind of work as well, so working with departments, looking at new initiative's and trying to work with them. Now that isn't easy actually, because you know, the practitioner's think they know best and they actually quite resent, you know, the young Policy Officer's coming in and saying let's do it this way, shall we? Coming in at all, so that's, that isn't easy, but it, eh were it works it's really good I mean for example we, we d o up the Poll Tax enforcement policy, erm and again it was where the Cou I mean if the Council had followed the legislation on Poll Tax collection, it's you know, erm and it didn't want to do that, and so again well, it's, well it's related to this legislation bit, but we looked at, we looked at how we could get round that legal procedure and we looked at developing a more sensitive policy and we had to do that with other departments. A more practical initiative which would currently involve them is a self build housing scheme, it's at a very early stage, but basically erm, were working with the housing department, economic development unit and er work, the work's department, there's a, there's a corporate project team, and were, were looking erm, we've got to identify, positively identify a site for it, but we're looking at bringing in European Social Fund, Funding and erm housing association money to get a self built housing scheme for young people, you know, where they would be trained in manual skills to build there own house and they live there, erm and er, so that's, that's quite an exciting scheme. Erm... the other thing we, we do is what I would call servicing community groups supported by the Council and I'll put servicing in inverted comma's, comma's here. Erm, these kind of group, kind of groups I'm talking about here are the West Essex Self Action Campaign the resident's groups, the homes and jobs campaign, school governors for 'em. A, it's part of, it's linked to the fact that erm, the Council's quite erm concerned to get, you know, community groups active in the town and responding to things as well as just the Council, Council Officer's, but it's also linked to the fact that we as Council Officer's can't be overtly political, it's far to say, and you know, what happens is groups get set up to resist things like last year when the hospital lost the fifty million pounds, there's enough people on it now to say that it's you people here that formed the bulk of thos e groups. Erm, that, there are sufficient people active in the town, they will come together and challenge those things. Now erm, the Council can support such groups, it can, it can, got formally decided the body to support such groups and with the West Essex Health Action Campaign all political parties on this Council decided to support it, because they were sad that we lost the fifty million.
[speaker002:] Legally, legally.
[speaker001:] Erm, and eh and we, if the the Council also can provide supports for those groups and it's us that will provide the support and we leave it as general as that. But erm, you know, that's, that is er a major part of our work. Erm the other area which is, it is just production and examination of, of information through leaflets, public meetings and conferences. And that goes back to what I said earlier, in that we just don't see ourselves working internally, in meetings, in negotiations and report binding, with erm, with other officer's, we see ourselves as a vocal point to get in information out, to, to people, erm and working with people, erm, and that's erm again a major part of the work we do and just as an example of something that we provide, this is erm, this is the hidden divide, the bulletin of Harlow's Anti Poverty Strategy Group, this is the latest edition, and it's just an update on erm impact of eh living in Britain in nineteen ninety one today, the people who are on low income, but we, we've produced that quarterly, erm, but there, we produce loads of leaflets, were always producing leaflets, and basically if there's a major piece of legislation there be, there be something worth getting use on it. Erm, and then I just thought I'd finally conclude a bright, cos I think it, it's like how I see myself at work, erm with showing you where our work comes from erm and basically you've got all these arrows coming in and er sometimes you do have a sense of feeling quite bombarded with requests for work, but the main, I mean the main formal source of our work is the local government sub committee, which is erm, like Mary was referring to earlier, every department or unit in our in the Council have to formally report and get it's work through by a Council committee, our committee is the local government sub committee and it formally sets our work programme once a year, and I our priorities, it also comes up with other things it would like us to do by the way, during the course of the year, so erm, that includes Mary as well.. Erm, and then we get requests for things from the leader of the Council directly, that he wants us to respond to, the chair of that committee to erm will, will do the same thing, we'll get requests from other departments relating to our work, some of which might of been you, we erm, the Council has a group for the finance advisory group, which is a small group of Councillor's and officer's that meet to discuss not in, in public session, key erm financial and other major policy erm issues that, and the reason why that group was set up, erm was that it felt like with the introduction of Poll Tax and the Local Government Housing and Finance Tax, that it needed outside the committee cycle to erm review the impact of those legislation to look at it's finances more closely and what, and we as a policy team report into that group and get request from work from that group as well. That group does have wider representation than just Councillor's, it has er Labour party representation on that group. We also get requests from work from the organisational review working party, which is a working party that's erm basically looking to progress to the D M D, Decentralization of Microtization initiative. We do get work from individuals, I said we have an open policy and people come through with problems that they've got because they know us and some we take up, we try and be helpful and, and take up individual problems and then we have a two way relationship with community groups and last and not, not, not least, we, we live across the corridor from the General Manager and he's always flying in and giving us work as well. So erm, that who we are, what we do and how we get our work and I hope that been interesting for you.
[speaker003:] Thank you.
[speaker002:] Very nice. [clapping]. Any questions?
[speaker001:] Well, well actually, there's one thing I've missed out which I said I'd come back to, and that was the front line review that I referred to. Because when I was thinking about trying to talking to you today, I thought although we've worked quite a lot with people along this group, you might be sitting here and thinking well you don't seem to be doing any specific work for and with old people erm, well I think your quite independent and can work out your right that, but one of the things this front line review erm it erm, it's considering Council front line services under various headings, one of which is Retired Services that the Council provide as a group, now the leader of the Council wants to erm [cough], get public views on how we look at these services, so, and that's, that's individuals and groups and one of the things that you might like to think about and I'm that we as a local government unit who are servicing this review can help you with, is to consider how you might want to fee in for that review, erm and, and consider this, that the re-services for retired people, that the Council provides that you use and basically whether you use that, or service, we want to hear that, the Council would need to know that cos were gonna be making decisions about whether or not they should continue in this front line review erm, and erm, you know, or what things you would, what, what are your questions on about those services, what other things you would like to see provided, things like that and I thing this group could quite easily make a collective representation, a collective submission to that process then you could do it as individual's as well, so that, that exercise it, it should be over by the eleventh of October it starts on the sixth of September.
[speaker002:] Is that the one that's being run upstairs by Jean, by the way?
[speaker001:] No, no.
[speaker002:] It's a different one is it? Oh
[speaker001:] This ones by, er actually you are the first members of the public to know about it.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] In fact you know about it ahead of most Council staff I would say. I mean the communication strategy for this whole thing has got to be sorted out and, you know, we want, the leader wants staff involvement, public involvement in it erm, and erm, but I'm just telling you advance on what's gonna be told.
[speaker002:] Fair enough.
[speaker001:] But, erm, that this is gonna be happening and you ought to have an input.
[speaker002:] I'm sure we will.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] If that's not, positive Chris! [LAUGHTER].
[speaker003:] There was someone before in Alex 's day, that's a very long time ago.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah.
[speaker003:] Could easily do it again..
[speaker002:] It is a long time ago.
[speaker003:] Can I say something about, dear I don't know if your aware the against it now you see how much work they do you know keep it.
[speaker001:] Well thank you.
[speaker002:] There's, there's another thing I, another thing I'd like to mention which Chris hasn't mentioned this afternoon is, that is that a lot of the pamphlets that you are handed out here, generate from 's office, copying and things like that, all very helpful, which would cost us a bomb outside, and we get them free, so you know, they, they do help the pensioner a great deal that's why I said when she came in that's a lady I admire very much and respect, cos she's very good to pensioners.
[speaker003:] You won't get one done through a government.. I don't know. Were talking about appreciate pensioners concerned about there pets.
[speaker001:] Well I.
[speaker003:] Now I understand that place making a small in the is that right?
[speaker001:] I don't know..
[speaker003:] It's just that next year it's under threat because of the cut backs.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] Now I give this quite a strong point to bring up..
[speaker001:] Right, okay. What we've just decided Chris actually. Yep. The R S P C A more or less in this borough is erm.
[speaker002:] Defunct.
[speaker001:] Used to put animals to sleep, they don't do much in the way of treatment, what we want to do from this is press for erm a P D S A grant. Right. Which used to function at the Stow. Yeah. Very successfully and we would, were gonna petition for that. Right, right, right, that sounds good. Well I'm actually gonna be the person servicing this return Policy Officer, this retired services group so, if you want to make it, either a person to raise you want to get out.
[speaker003:] .
[speaker002:] Laughing.
[speaker003:] .
[speaker001:] Right, I'll contact you.. I know.
[speaker002:] Yes, Archie.
[speaker003:] Archie.
[speaker009:] I, I could summize the sporting facilities for the pensioners.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] Forewarning.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] And I come in contact with people from other parts say erm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] They all the Harlow, one of the best places they know..
[speaker001:] Well that's useful to know, because what important
[speaker003:] . Do need that don't you.
[speaker001:] In this retire services.. Is, you know, is actually erm getting as much information we can about the people who are using the service and erm and making sure it stays, making a case for it. Also, I mean one of the things that the Council is considering doing, I mean this interest, I know that other people from around this area come into Harlow, one of the things that the Council's thinking about is erm, is charging, or has debated, charging different rates for people who are coming in than, than those who live here.
[speaker003:] That's right. I agree.
[speaker001:] As a way of income generating. Don't know, it's dodgy that.
[speaker002:] But eh.
[speaker001:] It's a double edge. . You don't want to give people who are using the service as well. Because it also brings us in money. Er, I think that's very dodgy.
[speaker002:] One does it, one of the things that eh I don't know whether it does effect you at all Chris but eh, eh Chris, is, is the fact that eh these here foreign lavatories they've got around the town, now I'm dead against these for a number of reasons.
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER].
[speaker002:] For a number of reasons. The first and foremost, most people don't like using them, but secondly we've already paid for this service in our rates and taxes, you know, when we pay our rates though, we pay for these toilets to be clean and all that sort of thing don't we? And yet they're bringing in these other things that er enormous cost which nobody wants and you've still gotta pay, and if you haven't got one, if you haven't got the necessary er coin then that, that could lead to very anti social behaviour. [LAUGHTER]. Right, so I mean this is.. Listen, this is. This is something that's been on my mind for a very long time and I mean, I, I, I think it's about time we started getting rid of these things and updating our own toilets you know. I mean.
[speaker003:] Pauline said they're are a success.
[speaker002:] Ah? Who said there a success?
[speaker001:] Pauline.
[speaker005:] Perhaps I'll be unpopular here, but in fact until you think of a way preventing vandals from vandalising the toilets, as you know, I don't think there is, nobody has come up with any other way of doing it. And that, I mean I, I can't give you a but they are extremely well used, you can tell by the that's been.
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Eh, that's different from what I've heard.
[speaker005:] Erm, I mean it is a terrible problem..
[speaker002:] It's different to what I've heard, very few I've met have.
[speaker005:] That, that's been the only other way of doing it..
[speaker001:] perhaps you have to progress to have a toilet pass.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [LAUGHTER]. No, but I mean, what I would say. [LAUGHTER].
[speaker003:] Er when we come down.
[speaker002:] What, what, what I would say is this, there always, there always talking about anti social behaviour around the town and as I say if people haven't got the necessary coin, it could lead to anti social behaviour, it's as simple as that. You know, I mean, surely that makes sense doesn't it? Or am I talking like an idiot?
[speaker003:] No, you're right.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker003:] The toilet system could be better.
[speaker002:] Yeah, much better.
[speaker003:] All round.
[speaker002:] Yeah, and if, if, if it's bad lies well then that's the case for the for the, the body that deals with the police. We have a body that deals with police here and they should be doing there duties, no good the local police tell us there's only eight members a shift, cos we don't believe it, they get on the Council and so they someone say what about all these other places that are being robbed of a night time.. You know, and all old people's things, like when they, when we old pensioners were being er, er knocked about on the erm highways and byways a couple of years back and I went to see the, the local police officer, what did he turn round and say, there all domestic affairs, they didn't want to know, yet the press will print, print these every week.
[speaker001:] here.
[speaker002:] Stop, right, listen..
[speaker001:] Though, it's just that, one of the things that Caroline actually, er working on with Warwick University is a way of re-looking at public services and how there funded right, it's basically to help David to make the case with Margaret Margaret for more money with the local Government, but erm I mean the sort of things we've been getting into is like when you considering paying for public services, should you, should you pay like in advance like through the National Insurance System or like, like I mean the French Health Service for example, people pay it for ambulances when they use them, though they pay on a differential rate, but I mean it's an issue to debate, it's right, and I've just been thinking about lavatory while you've been speaking.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] And the thing is that when of the, I haven't seen anywhere any kind of poll system, you know, I think it's a, I've always thought it outrageous as a women actually, that women have had to pay for toilets, and erm, I mean if we, you know, if we, we might, I mean, I, I would be in favour of a system where, you know, you, say a local Council issues a pass, which you pay for, have differential rates, but it's like people paying up front for that toilet service.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] And you have some way of, of, of getting in, erm and you have some way of controlling access therefore into toilets, now I don't know whether that would totally it, overcome the vandal system, but I mean if your saying a pass wouldn't be any different than a coin you could devise an entrance, so that it wasn't, you know, so that what you would be doing is stopping having like the total open access all the time, you know, erm.
[speaker003:] .
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] But, you know, it's just a thought.
[speaker002:] It could be with modern electronics couldn't it?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] You know, add, add a, a say a piece of plastic, like the bar system they had on, on, you know like a coded system.
[speaker003:] Same as the banks, for money.
[speaker002:] Exactly, although that, that, don't mention that for goodness sake, you'll, you'll, you'll be in dire trouble there [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] But I think.
[speaker003:] Money out the same time.
[speaker001:] I think we shouldn't be having this kind of debate about public services.
[speaker002:] No, but, you, you see what I'm trying to get at eh Chris, we've already paid once for this service and then, then asking us to pay again, which annoys me, you've already paid for the system and there asking you to pay again.
[speaker003:] That's all part of the Poll Tax.
[speaker001:] That's what I said Norman, women have been doing it for a lot longer.
[speaker003:] Your for ya.
[speaker002:] Your paying twice for the same service..
[speaker001:] Right, has anybody got any.
[speaker002:] Any further questions?
[speaker001:] Any more comments about the local government unit?
[speaker002:] Chris is in the hot seat. Huh.
[speaker003:] On that question of the young people who were.
[speaker002:] This lady here.
[speaker003:] I, I only want to mention about the swimming pool and swimming for pensioners and there ever such a lot of people go swimming.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I wanted to point out to you, you know, we don't want it to happen.
[speaker001:] Right, okay.
[speaker002:] Anything else?
[speaker003:] On that question. I've just moved into one of the new housing complexes.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Absolutely wonderful.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] It is really nice, they need more.
[speaker002:] Right, Alex.
[speaker003:] I wanna say on that question we were talking about earlier on about the young people and some facilities for them.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker003:] There was quite an appealing letter in er one of the local papers this week for a young person on this particular subject. Er, I saw between the sixteen to twenty year olds, there's nowhere in the town where they can go and meet very easily, other than the pubs, this causes trouble.
[speaker001:] You see one of the things I've done, I've, I've done, er I feel we could do quite easily, is make our play barns more accessible to young people, you know. But I mean this is something that we.
[speaker002:] Ah, they're costly.
[speaker001:] Though we've got to pursue with leisure, well I think as part of this front line review we've got to, you know, throw everything up in the air.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And say, you know.