[speaker001:] [reading] set this to right, we must stop so we establish the rule never have the by a gr by a grumpy process in []
[speaker002:] Well what choice did he what choice has he got?
[speaker001:] In the, there was a workhouse and [reading] With this view they can trap to lay on and then supply of water, and when a and half an orange Sunday [LAUGHTER] they named a great many of [] ...
[speaker002:] Anything else that [reading] they make great many other wise and humane
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] []
[speaker001:] [reading] This is a, this is []
[speaker002:] Yes
[speaker001:] [reading] The room was inseparable from the worker and the []
[speaker002:] Okay, so make the, what's going on in England at the time? Paul yeah The, the people in charge see that the work are an excellent idea, so if you Workers were only used people who could actually work, if people can't do a job then
[speaker001:] they go off to an
[speaker002:] They could do but then again of American people could be lost and
[speaker001:] Would they get out of very easily?
[speaker002:] Erm they do what you do
[speaker001:] yeah...
[speaker002:] and then again the old people would join the sent to Australia... There's certain ways that
[speaker001:] Would you give ...
[speaker002:] No But they were criminals anyway if you treat honest poor people like this then criminals are lower than, you'd take better care of animals than you would Er Nick carry on [reading] from the first six months after Oliver Twist [] you can read
[speaker001:] [reading] For the first six months after Oliver Twist the system was full, was in full operat operation. It was rather extensive at first and consequence of being and a necessity of taking in clothes of all the paupers who, with, which on a, on a waste of after a week or two the number of the workhouse inmates got thin as well as the paupers and the board were in, were in... and then in which the boys got back, were, were a large was a cop was a copper at one end, after which the master dressed in an apron and assisted by one or two women and they ladled the gruel at meal times. Of this festive composition each boy had one
[speaker002:] corinder
[speaker001:] corinder and no more except on occasions with great the bowl never wanted washing, the boys polished, polished them with their spoons till they shone again and when they, when they had to form this operation, which never took very long, the bowl, they would sit staring at the copper with such eager eyes as if they could of devoured a of which it was composed. Employing themselves meanwhile and sucking their fingers most assid
[speaker002:] Assiduously
[speaker001:] assiduously
[speaker002:] Carefully
[speaker001:] with a, with a the view of catching up any, any spare splashes of gruel that might be cast there thereon. Boys with generally excellent appetite, Oliver Twist and his companions suffered from the tortures of slow starvation, starvation for three months, at least they got so for ferocious [], is that right?
[speaker002:] Ferocious, greedy and wild
[speaker001:] [reading] and wild beyond er, that one boy who was and hadn't been used to that sort of thing, for his father had kept a small cook stock his companion that unless he has another basin of gruel he was afraid he might, he might some night happen to eat, eat the boy he slept next to, who happened to be a weakly youth of tender eight and they, and they impeccably believed him. A counsel was held lots were who should walk up to the master after supper that evening and ask for more, it fell Oliver Twist []
[speaker002:] What is actually er... the boy is, could eat the boy next to him erm what was it saying that was
[speaker001:] Well erm, it's a bit, he was he was just trying to scare him, trying to scare him
[speaker002:] Were you right when the worst thing that this he had big pies it proves how desperate people get and then he treats them like animals and this boy said I think Er [reading] the evening arrived then [] er David
[speaker001:] [reading] The evening arrived, the boys took their places, the master in a cook's uniform stationed himself at the copper. His four assistants behind him. The gruel was served up and a long grace was said over a short the gruel disappeared, the boys looked at each other and went over, while his next neighbours nudged him, tired as he was he was desperately hungry and he rest on the table and the master with his hands he said
[speaker002:] Yeah that's
[speaker001:] please sir, I want some more, the master of the but he turned very pale and then he what, said the master at in a stern voice, please sir, replied Oliver I want some more, the master glare at Oliver's head with the ladle in his arms and treat and Mr Bumble rushed into the room with great excitement and addressed the gentleman in the high chair said I beg your pardon sir, Oliver Twist has asked for more, there was a for more said compose yourself Bumble and do I understand that he asked for more after he'd eaten supper he did sir replied Bumble, that boy would be hung I know that boy will be hung
[speaker002:] this boy is a trouble maker and
[speaker001:] and the boy would next morning would pass on the outside of the gate offering a reward of five pounds to anyone who would in other words five pounds for Oliver Twist I never in for this in my life said the in the white, white coat as he locked the gate and he went to the next morning. I never want to...
[speaker002:] I had always
[speaker001:] anything in my life and then I am that boy by the white waistcoat the gentleman []
[speaker002:] So what's he got against the yeah, erm, he's also, what's his attitude to what he yes, but is he, is he terribly serious about his job?
[speaker001:] No, he's very sarcastic
[speaker002:] Yeah, erm you're right, as I first show in sequel whether the white waistcoated gentleman was right or not, I should have just yet, whether like Oliver Twist Later Oliver Twist was very near getting a in other words Sorry
[speaker001:] It could not of been easy
[speaker002:] you'll find out actually why in a moment
[speaker001:] [reading] A week after the had asking for more, Oliver remained greater prisoner in the darken solitary room which he had been consigned by the wisdom and mercy of the board, but it appears that at first sight not unreasonable disclose that for a particular gentleman of white waistcoat. It was established that individual pathetic character once and forever by tying one end of his pocket handkerchief to a hook on, in the wall and attaching himself to the other to the performance, to, to the performance of this feat however the pocket handkerchief inside had been all he, he only cried bitterly all day and when the longest nights came on he spread his little hand before his eyes to shut out the darkness and crouching in the corner tried to sleep, everyone drawing himself closer and closer to the wall []
[speaker002:] It's most that any prisoner you could do, but then again
[speaker001:] yeah... ... [reading] Let it not be spoke by of the system that during the period of as for exercise it was nice cold weather a public warning had been and so far this uses the same apartment every evening at prayer time and there selfish mind work a general publication for boys contain a special clause by authority of the board in which they repeatedly made good, virtuous, protected, obedient as regarded to a the powers of wickedness as an article direct from []
[speaker002:] What is his crime?
[speaker001:] He asked for more
[speaker002:] He just asked for more... erm, one thing that is disturbing, what he does very causally mention is what is going on all the time
[speaker001:] ...
[speaker002:] Well maybe not, but what is going on is
[speaker001:] Fear
[speaker002:] fear, all the time, if anybody to steps out of line or as I was going with the fourth year to what lies have been used? how can they justify what they do? yeah, they they're being fed, they're still kind people taking care of them, they're very lucky people and what do and so we presumably, the little children well I suppose you get in a gutter or something, this place would be better, as long as you get fed, the stuff you get there is horrible, but at least it's food and er, these kind people are taking care of it. In the outside world there's people waiting to exploit children and er Anthony do you want
[speaker001:] Erm [reading] with chimney sweeper was waiting down in the high street he was waiting there whoa said Mr to the donkey, the donkey was wondering probably whether he was so without listening to a word of warning he jumped on him []
[speaker002:] What makes you a bit disturbed about that?
[speaker001:] He's trying to smash
[speaker002:] Yes if he keeps the donkey like that
[speaker001:] How's he treat children
[speaker002:] how he treat children, yeah [reading] The gentleman with the white waistcoat []
[speaker001:] [reading] The gentleman with the white waistcoat was standing at the gate with his hands behind him after having delivered himself having witnessed with the donkey he smiled rejoicedly when that the door, he saw at once it was Mr Mr smiled as he pursued the I am said the gentleman in the white waistcoat []
[speaker002:] Erm... what is a erm, you say the young boy was
[speaker001:] Erm, where they, where they work as giving five pounds and Oliver Twist or did they want five pounds for him?
[speaker002:] Er I gather they and er... the workhouse, the gentleman in the white waistcoat, why does he think that this
[speaker001:] would feed the child regularly in a
[speaker002:] That's it, yeah, he's that beats the donkey, I mean all the donkey does is he hits the donkey while he pulls the reins, hits the donkey again and he finds out later that
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] [reading] Well the man in the white waistcoat followed the gentleman with the white waistcoat into even if he gets stuck in a chimney, worse thing that he the gentleman in the white waistcoat appeared his only chance he has is
[speaker002:] Okay, now... erm now what's he supposed to be assessed by the board have they just said er, why are what's he doing? Yeah, it's all religious, hypocrisy okay, humane, it's humane to slog these boys down the chimney, yeah, it's humane giving them a good beating isn't it, right then.