[Noel:] If you go round the other side please Ann.
[Ann:] Yes... I did call you Dominic didn't I?
[Enid:] No I mean you
[Ann:] There.
[Enid:] mustn't leave it there too long. Do you? Your marvellous cyclamen! You don't leave there do you, all time?
[Ann:] Ooh no! Er indeed we've... we hardly use that room since we had the territory room... because that would grow
[Enid:] Oh that's right.
[Ann:] so well!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] And you see it's
[Mollie:] I should take it out now.
[Enid:] I feel very ill!
[Ann:] I will.
[Noel:] What's that darling?
[Ann:] The cyclamen, because I I've
[Noel:] Oh!
[Mollie:] It's so useful and we've seen it and enjoy it.
[Ann:] I think I'll use it. is so very warm for it
[Enid:] It's lovely, mm!
[Ann:] there... but
[Mollie:] It's simply glorious!
[Ann:] Hasn't it done wonderfully!
[Enid:] You ought to in that glorious bowl!
[Ann:] last
[Noel:] Ooh, no look who's here!
[Enid:] Yes, I know. If you put them in a hot room they don't do so well.
[Mollie:] Put it in there.
[Enid:] I wonder what it would it look like in there?
[Mollie:] Ooh yes, it would, it would perhaps... I mean
[Noel:] Exaggerate.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] Oh yes, I wouldn't dare!
[Noel:] It's been broken twice in my lifetime.
[Ann:] Yes I know.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] Yeah.
[Noel:] This wine is a shot in the dark. It was very much recommended by the Wine Society... an Italian wine... and I hope that
[Ann:] I hope it's not full of this thing they're sending it all back for!
[Noel:] Ooh I hope not no!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] We won't try it []!
[Mollie:] Well that's lovely! Considering its name, was as cheap white.
[Ann:] There are limits to what I'd dare and
[Noel:] This isn't a cheap wine!
[Mollie:] No, well
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] I can just imagine he's probably hanging down!
[Ann:] It was a cheap wine that I thought
[Mollie:] Was it in?
[Ann:] that
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ann:] er....
[Mollie:] He'll come to that club.
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] One of his fathers, yes.
[Ann:] Girls, can I please persuade you not to touch the dish, whatever else... if you need slide it then... use, you see that
[Enid:] Mhm, yeah.
[Ann:] sort of thing or... Right!... Doing it tidily is always the thing isn't it?
[Enid:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] Well that's the thing I have... I had to give up... years ago.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] What, trying to do everything tidily?
[Mollie:] [LAUGHTER] Tidily!
[Enid:] Cos I can't quite no, that's nice.
[Ann:] I know, that's the problem. Mollie... erm... please don't touch that dish will you that's, er chipped potatoes in there... and... oh let me see what that is, can't you? That's... gravy... carrots and peas. You've had a problem with damp Mollie... Noel tells me?
[Mollie:] Well... it isn't erm... specifically in the erm... cupboards it's just erm... because I'm now... coping with... who... has acted like a erm... shoemaker... shoemaker's son do all your job... I am coping with what he did thirty odd years ago
[Ann:] Oh!
[Mollie:] and it's... all gone bad! I mean the erm... I still had to have completely new guttering in the summer because you cannot get anything to... mend the other walls because it's the wrong side! And... the only bit of damp I've got is in one corner of the house but it came from a blocked... erm pipe.
[Ann:] Oh I see! A blocked pipe.
[Enid:] Oh that's awful!
[Ann:] No, no not a blocked one but I mean... let's face it
[Enid:] It's alright now, carry on being all er... carry on now and
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Tha, you know we can have a run of erm
[Ann:] Yes.
[Mollie:] gutters they they they're in four piece, they're four yards or something.
[Ann:] Yes.
[Mollie:] And then you have a join
[Ann:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] Well on that join... I suddenly saw water rushing down the wall!
[Ann:] You see... that's a... that's a comparable thing to what happened in ours... and that was
[Mollie:] Erm, I'll do I'll do that cos, go on.
[Ann:] Erm, assistant at any rate... made water tip straight o out of the and down the wall... you could never
[Enid:] Into the, into the cabinet and the old wooden structure!
[Ann:] Well yes.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] It was!
[Noel:] I had to clear it all off though the... the original, what they sort of call, what the dog there
[Enid:] Oh really,!
[Noel:] Well they had to come out to
[Mollie:] I think that maybe you should have done much more... actually, but I I haven't... argued because he's so. It's no good him taking the bridge down... out now, because he can't put the wall... can't really re-brick there now... much too wet!
[Noel:] That's right. Oh yes! Can you manage love?
[Enid:] Yes, thank you dear.
[Mollie:] So that I'm suffering.
[Noel:] The major thing I find so
[Mollie:] But I, my personal suffering was erm... in the summer, frightfully! And you see, you know the ball over the... gutters
[Noel:] Yes.
[Mollie:] well... said it doesn't look as if it's been... painted once since it was built!
[Noel:] Oh!
[Mollie:] And that's all
[Enid:] Yep.
[Mollie:] wrong!
[Enid:] Is no one any
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] of this of these
[Ann:] Roast potatoes just there.
[Enid:] potatoes.
[Mollie:] Oh Anne, come on!
[Ann:] No, I'm not a potato person!
[Enid:] You slimming?
[Ann:] No, I just don't like potatoes.
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] Well I like potatoes.
[Ann:] I always had hopes of you!
[Noel:] Have some more Mollie.
[Ann:] Huge hunks of bread, I had a huge hunk of bread at tea time. Go ahead.
[Mollie:] Ah, you should never eat up to supper.
[Ann:] That's right.
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] I just don't like
[Noel:] Not really as though you'd know it!
[Ann:] potatoes, I don't like
[Noel:] Have a try.
[Enid:] Oh come on! We've only got three bits there.
[Mollie:] No, no, no, I've got crowds there!
[Enid:] Really?
[Mollie:] I've I've probably got much too much.
[Enid:] Oh I think I'll leave it there the dishes are so hot!
[Ann:] Oh leave them.
[Enid:] You couldn't possibly cool
[Noel:] I'll get them.
[Enid:] Bon appetit!
[Ann:] It's lovely! Very well thank you.
[Noel:] ... congress
[Ann:] Right
[Noel:] now.
[Ann:] Cheers!
[Mollie:] Cheers! Mm! Thank you so much for.
[Enid:] That now.
[Ann:] There's a very slight prickle with it isn't there Noel? It's not supposed to be a fizzy is it? They often do that don't they, you get a little funny prickle.
[Noel:] What, with the wine?
[Ann:] Yes.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] I know, I I was given...
[Ann:] That's right!
[Noel:] because... it was well written up in the Wine Society... I would descr... describe it as nice, nice but innocuous.
[Ann:] Yes it's alright, it's nice but
[Enid:] what darling?
[Noel:] Nice but innocuous, I mean that's
[Enid:] Oh I see.
[Ann:] Mm, you can.
[Mollie:] Surely that's not as nice as well innocuous! And not nasty and innocuous.
[Ann:] It has got a very slight fizziness though hasn't it?
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ann:] Very, very slight
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ann:] . Which often
[Noel:] It has.
[Ann:] goes out of it when it's.
[Noel:] Well that's
[Enid:] Well I mean
[Noel:] Spumante and all, the lot of those
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] Italian wines they're
[Mollie:] Now it's reminiscent... a that that can't be my deja vu who, cos I don't think you can in tastes... but it's reminiscent of something to me.
[Noel:] Oh is it really?
[Mollie:] But I don't know what.
[Noel:] Ha.
[Enid:] What? Well maybe white wines are... er... spritzy aren't they?
[Ann:] Oh yes, and this isn't
[Enid:] I think.
[Ann:] not meant to be. It often gets a little... a little secondary fermentation in the bottles.
[Noel:] Yes,i i it looks
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Oh does it?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] Oh well.
[Ann:] And it sort of fades.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] You can if it's
[Noel:] But that
[Ann:] red one but it's very strange sort of
[Noel:] I know that with the
[Mollie:] Oh is that red?
[Noel:] they'd already been
[Ann:] I agree.
[Noel:] Ya.
[Ann:] That is very strange!
[Noel:] It sort of erm... in Italian wine once or twice... but... when I ordered this I took the care to order... up
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] in the price range somewhat.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] Yes it's true.
[Ann:] Actually... you're not fond... enough of white wine are you to
[Noel:] No.
[Enid:] No, I'm not either I think
[Mollie:] No, no I'm not all that.
[Ann:] red of the two.
[Mollie:] I mean I I
[Noel:] You mean to say you ladies would have accepted red?
[Mollie:] No. [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] Oh nice!
[Enid:] Go and get a bottle of red.
[Noel:] I'll go and get a bottle of red, quick.
[Mollie:] Oh that's, no
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] oh no oh,ha oh
[Ann:] No, and it doesn't really go with fish does it? Not really.
[Mollie:] Mm mm.
[Noel:] Not really.
[Ann:] David and I have searched high and low for it
[Mollie:] I don't see why not.
[Ann:] but... no but it doesn't quite
[Mollie:] I don't see why not.
[Ann:] it doesn't erm
[Enid:] not with fish in cream.
[Ann:] Oh does it improve the... the wine at all
[Noel:] No.
[Ann:] .
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] I think fish in cream sauce is a very nice... is one that doesn't need a
[Ann:] What kind of fish is this? It's very good.
[Enid:] It's halibut.
[Ann:] Oh
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] by jes
[Mollie:] Yes, it's very nice!
[Ann:] I'm glad I asked but I'm glad I asked cos I... couldn't quite work out
[Enid:] No?
[Ann:] what it was.
[Enid:] Well if I tell you a little secret about this.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] It's up at the fish shop in... Framlingham
[Ann:] Mhm.
[Mollie:] Mhm.
[Enid:] and it now cheaper than coley!
[Ann:] But sometimes
[Enid:] So
[Ann:] happen don't they?
[Enid:] Coley is two ninety five a pound.
[Mollie:] mm... mm.
[Enid:] And halibut fillet is two sixty.
[Ann:] Really? Really?
[Mollie:] Well cod, cod was stuff we used to moan when we children.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Incredible!
[Mollie:] And it was the cheaper fish... than, cheapest
[Noel:] Yes.
[Mollie:] fish.
[Enid:] Well yes, mm.
[Mollie:] I mean it was a common fish wasn't it?
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Really delicious!
[Ann:] They're trying to put us off in because of the
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] over fishing there's been.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] One you don't see much though is hake is it?
[Mollie:] No you don't and when we were children well we
[Enid:] That's much nicer than cod.
[Ann:] My mother used to do a
[Mollie:] Much nicer.
[Enid:] A great big piece of hake
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] and... with... as if it was chicken... with erm... parsley thyme stuffing
[Mollie:] Oh yes.
[Enid:] a little bit of bacon
[Mollie:] Mm mm!
[Ann:] Lovely!
[Enid:] and it was baked and that was lovely!
[Noel:] That would be it.
[Enid:] Yes. Mm
[Mollie:] Mm!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] Oh yes, I remember grandfather who was very knowledgeable about fish... we used to say that
[Noel:] [cough]
[Ann:] hake was the scavenger of the seas!
[Enid:] Mm. Is that hake?
[Mollie:] a lot of people say they don't fancy hake.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] Well nobody used shrimps before.
[Noel:] But the mackerel
[Mollie:] If it had been a mackerel, yes exactly!
[Noel:] Oh yes.
[Mollie:] The mackerel
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] is the one that mainly.
[Enid:] I love mackerel!
[Ann:] Those that eat, don't say it.
[Noel:] I des describe it as a dirty eater, mackerel.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Mhm.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Mm. Well fruit sundae was rather
[Mollie:] Well shrimps and prawns shrimps and prawns are aren't they? Mm?
[Noel:] Mhm. And full of phosphorous.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] Oh really?
[Noel:] Yes.
[Enid:] Good for our brains.
[Ann:] Are, are they?
[Enid:] Brains.
[Mollie:] Oh yes they are.
[Ann:] Are they?
[Mollie:] They're
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] the ones that shine... in the dark when you're
[Ann:] Mm mm.
[Mollie:] coming home... rather failing
[Noel:] That's right.
[Mollie:] and you... that's right, you've got to run and ask them.
[Enid:] And I've seen you do it in a lot of them. I don't know whether it was
[Mollie:] Oh yes!
[Ann:] Oh really?
[Mollie:] Oh right, yes
[Noel:] Haddock was very.
[Ann:] Really?
[Noel:] Haddock's got phosphorous in it?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] Really?
[Enid:] Mm mm.
[Mollie:] Good heavens!
[Ann:] Look what I've done! Oh bother! Oh look what I've done.
[Enid:] I've never known it as that.
[Mollie:] No, wasn't it a... marvellous day today! Weather was
[Enid:] Absolutely incredible!
[Mollie:] You know tha that... his lordship... er... cut the grou, the field.
[Enid:] Really?
[Ann:] Yes!
[Enid:] the field.
[Mollie:] I wish would cut mine!
[Noel:] Ne ne near the
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] in the holiday, aren't there holidays?
[Mollie:] Why not, I've seen the
[Enid:] I thought it was a bit early yet, there's a frost isn't it now?
[Mollie:] There's morning, I'm
[Enid:] No I mean that erm... if you cut the grass... just before frost it doesn't like it does it?
[Mollie:] Oh but then, this is only
[Enid:] But when, that's right.
[Ann:] You shouldn't cut that though, but er I think a lawn, not, no.
[Mollie:] No but she was sayi
[Ann:] That's right.
[Mollie:] Now really but erm... this year's been so peculiar that
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] people are going to want to cut it.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Their only choice. Well I mean the... normally it would kill the grass, but it won't matter this year.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] I wonder if we'll get any snow?
[Mollie:] No, no, no.
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] John the butcher... at erm... butcher this morning... and I said... never say it's gonna snow, I said, it won't snow will it John? He said well you've been right since Christmas and if you say it's not going to snow, it's not going to snow!
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] Mm mm.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] This
[Ann:] What about the birds? And I walked up the village this morning... the birds were singing their songs
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] that they sing and the reels were
[Enid:] I just think we've
[Ann:] marvellous!
[Enid:] we've had lots of rain!
[Mollie:] Well the flood barrier!
[Enid:] I know!
[Mollie:] Well we
[Ann:] A an
[Mollie:] shan't, we shan't
[Ann:] and
[Mollie:] have a flood.
[Ann:] Anne is terribly on my side, she, still hasn't rained every time I see her!
[Mollie:] Oh!
[Ann:] I think, she said if you dig down a way it's dry
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] from nineteen eighty
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] nine still!
[Mollie:] Mm. I wonder whether that's... what er, I wonder i you see it looks damp on the top doesn't it?
[Ann:] Mm, very slightly, really
[Mollie:] But
[Ann:] but if you dig down about six inches, it's dry!
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] So they they
[Mollie:] gone and what they call the head... at least four times lately.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Just walking in the garden I was...
[Ann:] Very slightly isn't it? Very slightly.
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Mollie:] though.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] Terribly frightening!
[Noel:] Mm, mm.
[Ann:] It just would be so awful to move our lovely trees... cos they're all so, so dependent, that's it!
[Mollie:] That's the the trees.
[Ann:] That's all I worry about.
[Mollie:] Yes!
[Ann:] It's no good worrying about it, I do know that! [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] Mhm. It is
[Ann:] But
[Noel:] worrying though. Well... no, I've met pe... also Lady
[Mollie:] Mm mm.
[Noel:] and she said David said he saw a few snow flakes. Well I said if I see three snow flakes we're off to Tenerife!
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] Well we have, we have.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Very slight snow shower about two days ago didn't we?
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ann:] It was powdery.
[Mollie:] Yes, like, mm
[Ann:] Very, a little powdery and
[Mollie:] And it didn't stay.
[Ann:] We were on the way back from visiting
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] er... Richard, you know, and i
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] and I said, that's snow!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Oh really?
[Ann:] Just powdery.
[Mollie:] So we half an hour of sleet once.
[Ann:] Mhm.
[Mollie:] That was. And it bounced and bounced and bounced and I thought it was going on for ages but it didn't.
[Enid:] No.
[Noel:] Oh!
[Mollie:] Soon disappeared.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Have you got any fish left in your pond Mollie?
[Enid:] No.
[Ann:] Haven't you?
[Mollie:] Heron took the lot!
[Enid:] Oh no!
[Noel:] Oh God!
[Enid:] Oh!
[Mollie:] and we were having lunch, a late lunch on... what day did I say? On Sunday... cos they were going soon... and erm... James was clearing up the garden... you see I've go, I can't... I I can see gable
[Ann:] Yes.
[Mollie:] and the gables over on... erm... the lodge... and I can't see
[Enid:] Past. Yes, Are they a bit nearer?
[Mollie:] I mean i... it all looks the same
[Enid:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] to me.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Mollie:] And the heron you see is the same colour to me as the grass.
[Ann:] Oh yes!
[Mollie:] And James said, there's a heron slaughtering one of your big goldfish!
[Ann:] Aagh!
[Mollie:] You see.
[Enid:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] Oh and we all rushed out and said, shoo! And it flew o, flew away.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] And then... Ted and I went out a little bit later and we sa, we found two goldfish... and two golden
[Enid:] They damage them don't they?
[Mollie:] Oh,!
[Enid:] so they haven't got a or they
[Ann:] No, they bite so, oh do they?
[Mollie:] No they, they swallow them.
[Enid:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] I mean they swallow them quite nicely.
[Enid:] And sometimes they just
[Mollie:] And I said well that's!
[Enid:] next time.
[Mollie:] And the next day I went off and there wasn't even a snail
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] in the pond.
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] Nothing at all!
[Enid:] No.
[Ann:] Oh God!
[Mollie:] Cos I think I've
[Ann:] That's terrible!
[Mollie:] got a carp too.
[Noel:] Oh yeah!
[Ann:] Terrible! If perhaps you were to spread erm... a wire netting over the pond Mollie?
[Mollie:] Well yes I know, but I'm not having that! But erm... what I am going to do but I can't do it until... the spring... erm... at least until... erm... has cut the grass for the first time
[Noel:] Mm.
[Mollie:] erm, out there. Then I'm going to do what is the proper thing to do which is chop that to size
[Ann:] With the same as that, yes! Yes,
[Noel:] Oh yes that
[Mollie:] that and farm and
[Ann:] Yes.
[Mollie:] this black
[Ann:] so many creatures
[Mollie:] black stuff
[Ann:] Yep!
[Mollie:] so they could be thrown over... Oh this behaviour, no, they're so inflexible with their programme!
[Enid:] Three feet from the wall from your
[Mollie:] you see, and they get their
[Ann:] I see!
[Mollie:] feet tangled
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] but I can't, it's no good doing it now because you see erm... dogs can get in at present and
[Ann:] Yes.
[Mollie:] and rushing about and
[Enid:] You needn't do anything horrid to them, terrible! I mean, you can just er
[Mollie:] Oh no!
[Enid:] a wire cage
[Mollie:] they, no just go away. I mean I've seen it
[Enid:] them.
[Mollie:] they don't like it.
[Ann:] No.
[Mollie:] They're incapable
[Ann:] No. That's right.
[Mollie:] because of the erm... it's not wire, it's
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] just a a thread, you
[Enid:] Oh!
[Mollie:] see? And they get a bit
[Ann:] Mm. Mm mm.
[Enid:] My father always used to do that for his crocuses because the birds... loved the yellow ones, don't they? Mm.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] And his daffs, he was going to use his, lose his yellow crocuses of the year... so he spread black cotton
[Noel:] Oh yes mm.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] and they jolly well learned
[Ann:] Yes, I know, simple.
[Enid:] that that's what
[Ann:] Oh yeah.
[Enid:] that it
[Noel:] Mollie.
[Enid:] was there! Mm.
[Ann:] So we had to get used to the ending up in
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] black cotton against the sparrows I used to get really fed up with it! [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] Poor little things! [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] And I thought I'd got
[Ann:] I understand now what it was.
[Mollie:] knowing... erm... why all the purple cro crocuses good cook... and I thought I've got no...
[Ann:] And at nights I used to feel like
[Mollie:] and I had got
[Ann:] cos they've come now haven't they?
[Mollie:] Ah yes, that's
[Ann:] And I
[Mollie:] right
[Ann:] I told you!
[Mollie:] All... I've got all morning,
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] and I've got clumps of... of snowdrops... where I'd... and some where I didn't know even know I had snowdrops and
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] now I have found those lovely little erm... wild... purple crocuses
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] I couldn't
[Noel:] Good!
[Mollie:] think what their was? Right in the middle of a plot needless
[Ann:] Mhm.
[Mollie:] and they're all coming out! And they're round
[Ann:] Good!
[Mollie:] my!
[Ann:] Good!
[Mollie:] And so I, I've found that there but I've, but I've lost my baytree.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] How much
[Mollie:] But that's moles.
[Ann:] Mm. Oh moles! Oh dear!
[Mollie:] Well they got down in the grass you see.
[Noel:] There's quite a lot of them again this
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] year.
[Mollie:] They got them, mm?
[Noel:] They have a lot again this year, moles.
[Ann:] Will we?
[Noel:] Mm.
[Enid:] Well I've got millions!
[Mollie:] Well I
[Noel:] Have we?
[Mollie:] I must ring erm... r Eddy and ask him if you get them? I don't know whether you can get them wi... weather like this.
[Enid:] Oh!
[Ann:] Why do you say there are more Noel?
[Noel:] Well I don't know why we've got more, but we've got a lot.
[Ann:] Oh I'm sorry! I thought you were prophesying.
[Enid:] We've got some have we?
[Noel:] Mm!
[Enid:] Well I didn't know. Oh!
[Noel:] Even in the back now.
[Mollie:] That is the.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Mollie:] They come from... a bank and a ditch... always.
[Noel:] Well you've certainly got them.
[Mollie:] Well I've never get it before now right?
[Noel:] Now... who is Eddy?
[Mollie:] Well Mrs 's son.
[Noel:] Oh!
[Mollie:] And erm, when I said to them... because he's sharp so she says. My. Well he's wonderful! And the wo... mind you, he's much too heavy for me but... of course, well my father was... and they're arm things but I must get some fresh. And, I said... well I don't know what I'm going to do without Jack because he was so wonderful with my moles last year... he said... you haven't had me yet!
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] Oh!
[Mollie:] No erm, so I thought well
[Ann:] Brilliant.
[Mollie:] if he thinks he's as good as that then have him.
[Ann:] Trouble is, if you remove moles... you just leave an evolutionary niche for them and they're... another lot move into the field, you can never get rid of them because if you... remove your own private moles another
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] lot come in, you see.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Oh how lovely!
[Enid:] But do you mean... that they wouldn't try and
[Ann:] Oh they're really lovely!
[Enid:] visit if you had your own moles?
[Ann:] Well no, but they won't over-densify, they wo won't make the population too dense, you see.
[Enid:] I see.
[Ann:] And th, you know,the they might spoil
[Mollie:] Might be
[Ann:] things.
[Mollie:] mine come in
[Ann:] Yes, I'm sure they will.
[Mollie:] and they go over the fields.
[Ann:] Yeah. Yeah!
[Mollie:] And there are hundreds of the wretched
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] .
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] I consider four moles are too dense.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] Yes.
[Mollie:] One mole is too dense for me!
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Cos they always get under your favourite plant!
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] Fay, can I pass you some more vegetables up?
[Enid:] No, I'm doing fine thank you darling. But please encourage other people to have some.
[Mollie:] Well I'm sorry
[Noel:] I've been trying to.
[Mollie:] I have here.
[Noel:] Ha have some more veg.
[Ann:] No, eat this one.
[Noel:] And a little bit more.
[Mollie:] No it
[Ann:] I'm fine thank you Noel.
[Mollie:] I hope you're never looking at me but I have to dinner.
[Enid:] Why not!
[Ann:] I put my life down to fish and
[Enid:] Mollie, you know that my... I dislocated my jaw in November... mm.
[Mollie:] Mm?
[Ann:] How?
[Enid:] Just eating a sandwich!
[Mollie:] How could you?
[Enid:] Cheese sandwich. I don't know! Mm. And it clicked... and I, well occasionally before... and very occasionally and I
[Mollie:] Might have
[Enid:] I just... the slightest sort of movement has readjusted it... and this would not move... at all! And erm... I'm shovelling food now because it's so difficult! I still can't get it any wider.
[Ann:] Really?
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Nope.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] Drop more wine Mollie?
[Mollie:] No thank you, I'm alright.
[Enid:] . By the way those... did I tell you they... put me on some tablets to re... to erm... to erm
[Ann:] No.
[Enid:] relax the muscles,
[Ann:] Really?
[Enid:] Yes,. Well there must be something in it because I feel so relaxed these days I can't get
[Ann:] oh really! Well that's nice!
[Mollie:] Don't flap about anything!
[Ann:] Well er [LAUGHTER]... No quarrels.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] Erm, somebody tells me that Sarah is erm... doing very well but has had a foul cold ever since she's been over there, is she very well now?
[Enid:] Yes, she went with a... yes she has.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] I phoned her on the fourth night to say goodnight to her that was all. spoken to her in the meantime
[Ann:] Mhm.
[Enid:] and she was actually, at nine o'clock
[Mollie:] Well she don't
[Enid:] erm well in bed. Mm.
[Mollie:] lives at Foreham... which is just the other side of.
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Ann:] She was very bad at start with the new people but then I'll take her up
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] She can't make a commitment.
[Enid:] But she can be very, she can be very secluded there.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] She can be just.
[Ann:] I reckon she wants to
[Mollie:] Oh it's a lovely little lane I've... I've always loved that lane. I know you think I'm
[Ann:] Have you?
[Enid:] Have you?
[Ann:] Yes.
[Mollie:] And lives on there. Well I've known Derek since I was... six weeks old.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] I was taken there for the first time... when I was six weeks old... in a motor side car... down from London... to... just within ten miles of Bury St Edmunds. Why I didn't die I don't know!
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] We well, a motor side car!
[Enid:] Yes, absolutely! I'm astonished
[Mollie:] ... erm because my grandmother wanted to see her first grandchild before she died.
[Ann:] Oh yeah.
[Mollie:] And she died about two months later.
[Enid:] At six weeks,
[Mollie:] You see I Connie.
[Ann:] Really?
[Mollie:] and Connie, Connie's six weeks younger than I... and... grandma never saw her.
[Ann:] Oh well she did
[Mollie:] but she had a grandson... before that, she had a grandson who was born in eighteen ninety three... and his name was on.
[Enid:] I don't even
[Ann:] Oh really?
[Enid:] think that in those days anybody would have considered taking a child out like that, you know! They do it now!
[Ann:] That's right.
[Enid:] It drives me
[Mollie:] In a car
[Enid:] me up the wall! Erm... the things they will do for these new little things. I never used to feel
[Ann:] I know.
[Enid:] that mine were really here until they.
[Noel:] Did it have a lasting effect on you Mollie?
[Mollie:] Well, you can be the judge of that!
[Ann:] No, got it I think, yes!
[Mollie:] But then
[Enid:] You don't like motorbikes and side cars do you Mollie?
[Noel:] It's amazing really!
[Mollie:] No. Well I used to ride a motorbike a and... my father had a Triumph motorbike because he bought... I don't why he, why he bought it... and he was terrified of it cos it was very fierce! And... my brothers used to ride it, so I used to ride it... and I rode it for miles!
[Noel:] Did you?
[Mollie:] Then I rode it in a... in an old Burberry... and I don't how I started it, I think it was kick start.
[Ann:] Mm, yes.
[Mollie:] Oh it must have been. And then we were at Frinton, masses of us, and we always used to go to Frinton in the summer... because one of my uncles had a house there... and we knew the people who erm... dad used to play golf and mother used to knit... on the beach, you know.
[Enid:] Oh yes. Mm mm.
[Mollie:] And we used to... th masses of cousins there... and erm... one... one of my... Jean, my cousin... about ten months younger than I... said, can I have a go Mollie? And I said, yes... you see, gave her a try... and so she went... if you know Frinton you could go, in those days
[Noel:] Yes I know it.
[Mollie:] you could go round, well it's the same now, but in those days you could go round, past the summer theatre and down Old Road where we were staying and on to a... and do a circle you see?
[Noel:] Mm.
[Mollie:] And we started her off and she went round... and as she went past the second time she said I can't stop!
[Enid:] Oh! oh! oh!
[Ann:] Oh no!
[Mollie:] And then she went round again and we said... well push so and so
[Ann:] Oh my! How awful! [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] And nobody had told her how to stop you know.
[Ann:] I can remember not being able to get off my sister's much bigger push bike, just an ordinary push bike
[Mollie:] Oh yes!
[Ann:] and I... pedalled frantically round, didn't know how to get off again cos it was much too high.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] And I remember just sort of leaping onto some grass and just letting it go, you know, could of been.
[Mollie:] Oh I remember them emphatically
[Ann:] Oh yes!
[Mollie:] now,.
[Ann:] Yes,
[Mollie:] I know, I probably learn you see because I borrowed when I was about twelve... and I remember bashing into a nanny with a pram.
[Ann:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] Oh, she was furious
[Enid:] Oh dear!
[Mollie:] with me!
[Enid:] I bet she was. I bet she was.
[Mollie:] cos of nowadays, well they didn't then because she was beastly to me now!
[Ann:] [LAUGHTER] Oh []!
[Enid:] Now this is where the meal gets a little bit French because... I have sauce to deal with. So you are left with erm conversation
[Noel:] I'm going to top your glass up with a
[Enid:] No thank you darling.
[Noel:] No.... I had an experience with a bike when I was very small... a girl up the road... was given a bike... and I had quite quietly learnt how to ride a bike more or less.
[Mollie:] Mhm.
[Noel:] And I, I said can I have a ride? And she said yes. And I went up and down the road and... miles away then came back... and I couldn't stop because this bike was very old fashioned and you had to stop it by pedalling back
[Mollie:] I know.
[Noel:] pedalling backwards!
[Ann:] Oh yes
[Mollie:] I know.
[Ann:] I've heard of them!
[Noel:] And I I
[Mollie:] I remember those.
[Ann:] Well!
[Noel:] pedalling backwards
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Noel:] and I said there are no
[Ann:] No.
[Noel:] brakes! There are brakes!
[Ann:] No.
[Noel:] Oh dear! Anyhow I steered it straight up somebody's drive into their garden.
[Ann:] Oh yes, up a hill or something.
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER] []!
[Ann:] No. How awful! I've never ridden one but I've heard of it, with this back
[Mollie:] Yes, I've heard of it.
[Noel:] Oh yes, that's right.
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Ann:] Be quite good, although you maybe do it by accident sometime and be rather jerky!
[Noel:] That's what I thought earlier.
[Mollie:] That's very sudden you
[Ann:] Oh!
[Mollie:] see.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Back pedalling, mustn't you?
[Noel:] Hey?
[Mollie:] Yo, you might stop sort of suddenly.
[Ann:] Stop very suddenly.
[Mollie:] And then you'd
[Noel:] Yes,yo well I I I yeah, no I have actually got
[Ann:] No.
[Noel:] th ridden one.
[Ann:] No, I never have
[Noel:] But
[Ann:] certainly but I have of that.
[Mollie:] Well no not
[Noel:] But I can remember riding this girl's
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] bike... can't stop! Can't stop!
[Ann:] [LAUGHTER] []!
[Noel:] And so... er er can
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] remember riding up
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] up this slope into a
[Ann:] Yes.
[Noel:] onto grass or something.
[Ann:] How are your erm, I heard about erm, I've erm heard Sebastian lately but how is little Romley getting on, is he alright?
[Noel:] Oh he's fine, yes! The
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] they make too much fuss of him and they bring him back
[Ann:] Yes.
[Noel:] too often but
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] Yes. Good!
[Noel:] And John has got an order to build a new Orkingford Chapel.
[Ann:] Oh at
[Noel:] Which would
[Ann:] John's!
[Noel:] At John's.
[Ann:] Oh how lovely!
[Mollie:] Oh have they, good!
[Noel:] Yes.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Noel:] And that's the second one
[Mollie:] Oh that's lovely!
[Noel:] since the war.
[Mollie:] Mm?
[Noel:] They had
[Mollie:] Is it? Is it really?
[Noel:] they had new one... after the war.
[Ann:] Why do they want another one?
[Noel:] It's... just isn't satisfactory.
[Mollie:] How extraordinary.
[Noel:] No. John's gotta... build a new one.
[Ann:] Oh! He's not complaining?
[Noel:] No.
[Ann:] No.
[Noel:] And at your old... stamping ground. Gotta
[Ann:] For what?
[Noel:] to build one for Chelmsford Cathedral. Mhm.
[Ann:] Really?
[Mollie:] I'm off Chelmsford
[Ann:] Chelmsford?
[Mollie:] Cathedral! It's ghastly!
[Noel:] I gather it is.
[Mollie:] And so is the bloody Bishop there!
[Noel:] Yeah but he's
[Mollie:] Absolutely awful!
[Noel:] very nice.
[Mollie:] And... erm... if you wanted to hear about Chelmsford Cathedral when Estelle who was a... humorous and eighty something but... still on the ball... she'll tell you about... the
[Noel:] Who?
[Mollie:] Chelmsford Cathedral. Estelle.
[Noel:] Who is that?
[Mollie:] sister.
[Noel:] Oh sister! Oh yes
[Mollie:] And
[Noel:] I've met her, I've met her!
[Mollie:] and erm... ooh she's marvellous!
[Noel:] Yes.
[Mollie:] She's be,ei, eighty six and she lives alone... and she's... she's absolutely... ge again, the Arch Deacon, it's the Arch Deacon there that's the trouble! He got a bulldozer to bull, to bulldoze up the erm... aisles... and bulldoze the sanctuary... and he's thrown away, God knows what! I mean there are, there, there were erm... all sorts of things there. And his, and he got rid of the beautiful eagle... erm... you know, reading desk... and he got rid of the... Bishops's... erm, chair, the Bishop's... what do they call it?
[Ann:] Oh yes.
[Noel:] Throne?
[Mollie:] The Bishop's throne! And he's put all wrought iron one there!
[Noel:] Yeah. Well I
[Mollie:] Absolutely furious! Sh she won't
[Noel:] I haven't been in
[Mollie:] go near it! Do you know what she does? On is the erm... erm, nearly next door is the old erm... Quaker Chapel
[Noel:] Oh yes.
[Mollie:] the most beautiful building and... nobody can pull it down, but
[Ann:] Not the chapel Mollie?
[Mollie:] No,
[Ann:] Not.
[Noel:] Meeting House.
[Mollie:] Meeting House
[Ann:] Meeting House
[Mollie:] yes. And opposite her... is where the erm... Quakers meet now because they can't afford to run the chapel... the erm... Meeting
[Noel:] Meeting House.
[Mollie:] Meeting House... as... a big one and they are... getting fewer. But she says... I sometimes just walk across the road and go to the Meeting House at... you know
[Noel:] Well I've got a theory
[Mollie:] rather than the cathedral.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Noel:] I've got a theory... I have a feeling there's going to be a great... revival... of people with a Quakered mind... way of thinking.
[Ann:] Yes
[Mollie:] I I
[Ann:] Yes.
[Mollie:] do agree.
[Ann:] But the trouble is Noel, in the meantime... erm... the Quakers have fallen apart... because the Quakers have filled themselves up with... sort of barefooted raw carrot eaters with beads
[Mollie:] Well I know they have, yes I agree.
[Ann:] with the and haven't, but haven't ever read
[Mollie:] That's right.
[Ann:] the bible sort of Eastern religion type, meditation and thing and it's no good at all! The old fashioned Quakers who were sikhs and everything.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] Now, what I have learnt at college this week which is... rather interesting I think. Well I think you'll be interested. Erm... in the bible... in the new part, the new testament, there's a... er an epistle of James.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] Well I am told that that is the earliest thing at all.
[Noel:] I'd say that.
[Ann:] That is his erm... actually a brother of Jesus in his family
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Ann:] and so it's very much as he was thinking... and it should be in the old testament really cos it was written... you know, before Jesus
[Noel:] Mm.
[Mollie:] That's right.
[Noel:] before the, before the crucifixion. Erm, and it's been quickly Christianized with just two little lectures at the beginning of two chapters to Christianize so it was popped in for new testament... and it's the nearest we can get to... to teaching. And of course, it's totally Jewish
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] but I'd say it's th it's th Je, the Jewish teaching as Christ would have preached it
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] you see and it's for... all the family. And there's, towards the end of the... first chapter... there's a bit all about erm... erm... er temptation and deliver us from evil kind of thing which is obviously rather from the, from the Lord's Prayer and yet it's, rather explained rather nicely and it, it's a lovely, lovely book! It's only five
[Noel:] Do you know, I haven't ever read it. I will do of course.
[Mollie:] I've heard about that.
[Ann:] It's lovely! It really is lovely! And you really feel that here is a
[Mollie:] I shan't be able to walk home!
[Noel:] Really?
[Ann:] It seems to be
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] everything... sort of, in a nutshell, you don't need any of the rest
[Mollie:] Oh well!
[Ann:] of the new
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] testament, that's just quite enough, it's just a... just th the Jewish thing filled out slightly and and and a little bit less rules and, you know,i it's very, very lovely!
[Mollie:] Well apparently Chelms
[Noel:] I've never read it, but I shall.
[Ann:] We'll have a go, yes.
[Mollie:] Well that's what Chelmsford's got you see, Chelmsford was was full of Quaker! I mean, I can, I can... erm... quote the Quaker the families who still live there.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Mollie:] Oh, all the important people were Quaker families when I lived there... you see? And the erm... the.
[Noel:] The, I was gonna say them.
[Mollie:] Oh the were appalling!
[Noel:] Ah yeah, the, the and I knew them.
[Mollie:] Oh yes!
[Noel:] Yes.
[Mollie:] and erm
[Ann:] What about the?
[Noel:] They're still there apparently
[Ann:] The were
[Mollie:] Oh yes, they're still there!
[Ann:] and the were the Norfolk more weren't they?
[Mollie:] Mm mm?
[Ann:] Were the Norfolk more, were they?
[Mollie:] I think they were. Yes, I I mean I can't remember... they and the and.
[Noel:] By the time
[Mollie:] I can't remember now but they're at least five. I was thinking of them the other night, well they... er, five at least erm...... they were th they were Quakers.
[Noel:] But er
[Mollie:] ,,... and something else, I can't remember them.
[Noel:] I di, I always think of the, I met one or two of those.
[Mollie:] They're
[Noel:] A when I go through
[Mollie:] Oh Mrs,
[Noel:] off the train and still standing there with her name on her side.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] Yeah, that's right.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] Oh they're lovely people!
[Noel:] But er
[Mollie:] They ran everything.
[Noel:] I'd been per wo ah... I I feel that... all this... doctrine... res religions are spoilt
[Ann:] That's what I said!
[Noel:] by doctrine.
[Ann:] Exactly!
[Mollie:] Oh no!
[Ann:] Nobody believes
[Mollie:] That's wrong!
[Ann:] any of it now! I mean I think
[Mollie:] No I know. I know.
[Ann:] Yeah, it's terribly sad! It's terribly sad!
[Mollie:] I think it's.
[Ann:] Even the Bishop of Durham, I've just recently bought one of his books... and I rather wish I hadn't, I'm not liking it much... erm... he's still much too orthodox really.
[Noel:] Is he?
[Ann:] You know he's still hanging on to
[Mollie:] Oh he is?
[Ann:] and trying to
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] show
[Noel:] Well I mean you can't... you
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Noel:] you can't get fish from... prize thinking fish
[Ann:] No.
[Noel:] can you?
[Mollie:] No.
[Ann:] But I know they blamed him for that. And he says you can because he says it's important for it to be a living thing that's got to change with the time.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Ann:] In all that way he's quite correct
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] I think. It's just that he hasn't, to me, changed enough, he's still stuck up with all these... various things. That really
[Noel:] Well I know... let's face it, if he, if he was... really convinced of the... falsity of most it he
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] couldn't be a conscience to obtain his seat could he?
[Ann:] Well he reckons you can say it in a different way. You can say
[Noel:] Mm.
[Ann:] it entirely symbolically and spiritually and and
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] things don't
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] have to have happened in fact. And that the stories were told to make a point and
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] the trouble is, people have lost the point and kept the story! Erm, you know, it's saying that
[Noel:] Well, the earliest man who... used to think like this was Albert.
[Ann:] Yes, oh yes course it
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Ann:] was! He wrote that marvellous book!
[Mollie:] Oh
[Noel:] Well
[Mollie:] a lovely book!
[Noel:] I've got about six of his books in there!
[Mollie:] Well I had all of his books.
[Ann:] famous
[Noel:] No, er, you mean erm
[Mollie:] I know quite a few.
[Ann:] The er
[Noel:] Christ, the Historic Jesus.
[Ann:] Yes. With that famous last
[Noel:] That is his best book
[Ann:] chapter which is so lovely when
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Ann:] he sort of says well you still can... spiritually meet Jesus even though you know, it's a rather lovely the last chapter! I say, he moves him the more you... search for him historically
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Ann:] but there is a... there's something hanging about still. But in a funny way, perhaps there is. I don't know. I'm very... very, very, very, tied up with it, I I I invariably turn... relatively happy with it all.
[Noel:] I don't think one has to worry too much.
[Ann:] Been brought up so much, bought up a Christian
[Mollie:] Yes,
[Ann:] you just find it difficult to... to admit that one's rather... you know... But certainly that epistle of James, to me, was just marvellous! Just everything!
[Noel:] I, I can't
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] ever remember reading James, If I had, I've forgotten about it.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] But I shall read him tonight.
[Ann:] Well certainly, you'll enjoy it.
[Mollie:] Oh
[Noel:] Did you go to 's er...?
[Ann:] Yes.
[Noel:] Er... I chose the reading.
[Ann:] Oh did you? Oh
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ann:] how lovely!
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] Mm. Mm.
[Ann:] Yep. It
[Noel:] Erm
[Ann:] was very nicely done! Louis was very upset cos she forgot to erm... have anyone to take the names... erm
[Noel:] Well
[Ann:] so I wrote down as many as I could... think of
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] and erm... and I asked Margaret, they had a better view where she was
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] and she told a lot of other people and so I think we got a pretty comprehensive list actually.
[Noel:] Oh, we couldn't er... we
[Ann:] No.
[Noel:] we couldn't go anyhow.
[Ann:] No. It was very packed in there but I couldn't see a lot of anything.
[Noel:] But I was glad we couldn't because they asked me to read the lesson.
[Mollie:] No it... it's miserable!
[Ann:] Oh yeah.
[Mollie:] It spoils everything doesn't it?
[Noel:] I'm glad to say
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] and stuck to it.
[Mollie:] I think there were some people there who didn't really know, but they maybe went because they'd got to a funeral.
[Ann:] Well it wasn't erm
[Mollie:] Oh
[Ann:] it wasn't quite full enough.
[Mollie:] I think that's awful don't you?
[Ann:] I I do, I do Mollie!
[Mollie:] But, we're doing the right thing for
[Ann:] I
[Mollie:] the wrong reason.
[Ann:] No this was probably, a relatively
[Enid:] That's
[Ann:] original idea.
[Enid:] that's the, that's the wrong thing to do!
[Noel:] Straightforward from there.
[Ann:] Just having a cremation cos you're talked into doing something.
[Mollie:] I was, it's not a very
[Ann:] And it's not very popular now.
[Mollie:] after.
[Ann:] I must say, David worshipped rather well. but steered round it, saying how he admired them
[Noel:] You said it.
[Ann:] you're obviously going to make his daily up and down the village and and er
[Mollie:] I said one or two things
[Ann:] You know, things you could say
[Enid:] That's quite
[Ann:] Erm
[Enid:] true.
[Mollie:] and he did decide that I would like a cup of tea
[Noel:] I wanted to say he had a great dedication.
[Mollie:] and she said that if you couldn't go, or telling him.
[Noel:] And he was the only man in the British Legion who'd ever bought
[Enid:] That's right darling.
[Noel:] a drink.
[Mollie:] I I can manage see me any time you want.
[Enid:] No, I did come.
[Noel:] He didn't like.
[Ann:] David
[Enid:] He didn't.
[Ann:] me and I usually always tell him off.
[Mollie:] and I've met people there who I know I knew.
[Enid:] Yes, that's true.
[Mollie:] And I
[Enid:] That's true. Absolutely! Oh sorry!
[Ann:] But I thought it wasn't
[Noel:] No, no, no, that's right. No, when people are dead you must
[Mollie:] See you bury them.
[Enid:] Now Mollie that's, I haven't given you a large helping but it's a ginger pudding. I've been dying to make a good ginger pudding for years!
[Mollie:] I like ginger pudding.
[Enid:] So wait and see if it's any good, I don't know.
[Noel:] There now Mollie, there's some cream. Erm, sorry, some custard.
[Enid:] Sauce!
[Mollie:] No I'll I
[Noel:] Sauce.
[Mollie:] Oh sauce. Erm, is a, is is sauce essential?
[Enid:] I should think on this. It it
[Mollie:] Okay.
[Enid:] moistens it. It's an egg custard so it's, you know... it's worthy
[Mollie:] Oh well
[Enid:] of your attention.
[Mollie:] I have, if you
[Enid:] Oh!
[Mollie:] don't mind but I don't like
[Enid:] Heavens! Come on have some!
[Mollie:] I don't like normal cream on everything.
[Enid:] And it's only small helpings... because you can come for more, okay?
[Ann:] Normally I'm staged up on the straw potato you see.
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Smart girl!
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] Good potatoes! Erm erm... thank you.
[Enid:] They're good for you
[Ann:] Some of them don't like
[Enid:] I wish I liked them
[Mollie:] Just plain boiled.
[Enid:] because erm... I think they
[Ann:] don't like them really.
[Enid:] I think
[Ann:] What was that darling?
[Mollie:] So as they're not, not just plain boiled and nothing else
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] with them.
[Enid:] What I've done with these is er
[Ann:] Or
[Enid:] er
[Ann:] Boiled part were they?
[Enid:] Parboil them.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] And
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] then pop them into
[Mollie:] That's loads
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] thank you.
[Enid:] and pop them in with the... and.
[Ann:] And I love them in their jackets! But not down in
[Mollie:] Also company, because I can't cope... very easily with
[Ann:] No.
[Mollie:] with my.
[Ann:] I love jacket potatoes, then I won't, with a jacket I don't like the jacket.
[Enid:] Oh I love the jacket!
[Noel:] Oh I love the jacket!
[Mollie:] You see, I love the jacket but I can't cope... because I can't cut it properly.
[Ann:] Yeah, I'm like that.
[Noel:] I'm always torn between conscience, eating a jacket or letting the birds enjoy it.
[Ann:] Yes.
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] The birds do you see.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] Don't they, they love it! That's right.
[Noel:] Wish we'd got another robin, we haven't had one this year.
[Ann:] No I'm not, I haven't got a robin.
[Mollie:] Oh I could
[Enid:] We haven't one that comes on our
[Ann:] No.
[Enid:] it's just
[Ann:] No.
[Enid:] at the last minute now.
[Mollie:] Talking to my or something, I mean... why should he die? I mean, my robin still comes around and tha, that's my joy! I always
[Ann:] Yes.
[Mollie:] know when the robin's there.
[Ann:] We like them
[Mollie:] I have every year.
[Ann:] to be there on the
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] you know. Cats are very bad for them aren't they? Cats
[Noel:] Mm.
[Ann:] catch them easily. Mm.
[Noel:] We haven't got any cats lately
[Enid:] I don't like cats.
[Noel:] round here at all. Around our house.
[Mollie:] I've got terrible cats!
[Ann:] One little nervous cat, it's such a nuisance to me!
[Mollie:] So is mine!
[Ann:] He comes over... he does all his jobbies in my garden!
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] And he scrapes up all the soil, you see this, well Lindsay hasn't got any soil, she's just got grass, so obviously it go, comes round!
[Mollie:] Oh! Can't you stop it?
[Ann:] Well I put some nice pretty flags on my flower bed cos it seems, well I just did it, you know and they're all, they're all
[Mollie:] is that, tell me is that boy with the imitation chap outside?
[Ann:] Mm. Mm mm. No. Well we
[Enid:] The Scot er... we call him... what do we call the Scot who lives along the way?
[Noel:] I call him, I call him Edgar.
[Enid:] Edgar! We call him Edgar, is
[Ann:] I
[Enid:] that a first name?
[Ann:] Mm. What?
[Enid:] Next door to the Post Office.
[Noel:] The door at the end cottage.
[Ann:] Yes I know.
[Mollie:] No, no that isn't a girl, it's a boy!
[Ann:] No, no, but mine is a girl, this one's
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] a boy but the one next to me is a girl.
[Enid:] Why Mark's at her?
[Mollie:] Really?
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Oh is it?
[Noel:] Mm.
[Ann:] Oh yes.
[Enid:] Perhaps he has boys there so it's not surprising you get them.
[Ann:] But that's nothing to do with this one nearby.
[Noel:] No, no, he's
[Enid:] No.
[Noel:] a boy.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] I see.
[Noel:] Ah! I've made a, one little mistake, I didn't tell you Edith!
[Enid:] Ah?
[Noel:] Erm... I went in the mill to get some wood... and noticed this... young man... and, I think I told you, I found him... smoking in the, in the Porsche.
[Mollie:] Mm!
[Noel:] Well er... I I said to young er... what's his name? Da da
[Enid:] Do erm
[Noel:] Daniel who owns the mill... ah, the young man you've got there... working for you... he said, you're wrong... it's a girl!
[Enid:] Oh
[Mollie:] Oh!
[Enid:] really!
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] We well was it to her that you said
[Noel:] It was a girl!
[Enid:] don't you dare come over
[Mollie:] But I can't
[Enid:] here smoking?
[Noel:] Yes, don't you dare come over smoking!
[Enid:] Yes, yes, mm.
[Mollie:] I can't tell the difference wha... erm
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] erm, I mean... very often the girl's hair is shorter than the boys isn't it?
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] She, in fact... did look at me rather palsely once or twice.
[Ann:] Oh! [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Mm. Well John thinks everything German... is that
[Ann:] Mhm.
[Enid:] much superior to everything British!
[Mollie:] Oh gosh!
[Enid:] So the blasted erm
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] Germans in the factory now you see!
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] Mm. I don't think they're any better workers than ours
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] on the whole.
[Ann:] No.
[Mollie:] Oh no!
[Enid:] No, I don't think they are. Not for
[Mollie:] And our
[Enid:] a minute!
[Mollie:] our people need the work!
[Enid:] I said that, as a matter of fact, absolutely so!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] You try telling John that!
[Ann:] I'm surprised they get work permits cos America won't give them work permits will they? People have a terrible job
[Enid:] Oh it's common knowledge you see.
[Mollie:] Well now
[Ann:] Of course!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Now Damen's erm... erm... erm... daughter Damen... who was... waiting to go to Holland... is it Holland? Yes, Amsterdam I think... somewhere there. And erm... on a job... er on on an English railway starting with... starting a factory out there... and they are... going to manage it... she's worried stiff you see because she says... now... er, Germany and Holland are starting to move in the recession and... once they're there... if the recession comes they'll tack up... her husband immediately
[Enid:] Quite rightly!
[Mollie:] and and they said they, the erm... and anybody there and and chuck out the English workers because the Ho, the erm Dutch don't want English workers you see!
[Enid:] And yet, we have them over here.
[Mollie:] Yep. We have them... over here and they say
[Enid:] Absolutely!
[Mollie:] exchange
[Enid:] We had a letter a few weeks ago, at Christmas time... from erm the er, what is it? Spain, Portuguese
[Noel:] Yes.
[Enid:] er
[Mollie:] Right.
[Enid:] family that we know... and th, they're, one of their sons is... fo erm... in London I suppose erm... adapt here... and he's rather upset because she is now coming over to Britain... to work for Telecom!
[Ann:] Oh really!
[Mollie:] Oh gosh!
[Enid:] Now why?
[Ann:] Oh dear!
[Enid:] I don't see it! And I don't think they
[Ann:] Well why can't some of our yobbos go away and get jobs elsewhere!
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] Yes exactly!
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] All our
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] few unemployables. Ha, mm.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Really how I this this
[Enid:] It's ridiculous really!
[Noel:] this funny creature out of Mars... but she's not very
[Ann:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] nice if she's female!
[Ann:] Wilf wants to, Wilf wants to know her.
[Enid:] I trust you won't be any more churlish, telling her not to smoke in the wood shop!
[Noel:] Course I shan't tell her tha, I, course I shall tell her if I find her smoking in or near the wood
[Enid:] Yes!
[Noel:] shop!
[Enid:] I think so!
[Noel:] She'll get even stronger!
[Enid:] Mm!
[Mollie:] Yes!
[Enid:] Yes!
[Noel:] !
[Enid:] Mm!
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] Yeah!
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] Oh no... but no course it... i i it's er... I I Mr discipline.
[Ann:] Oh yes!
[Enid:] Yes. That's not quite
[Ann:] Right.
[Enid:] the same.
[Ann:] John's doing jolly well isn't he?
[Noel:] Oh yes!
[Enid:] He is
[Noel:] He's just got
[Ann:] Well you're very lucky cos so, you might have easily of had nobody in the family
[Enid:] Oh absolutely!
[Ann:] it would take on.
[Mollie:] Well
[Enid:] Yes!
[Mollie:] he might usually.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] He's just got Chelmsford Cathedral. Oh yeah!
[Noel:] Getting a new order
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] for Lincoln's Inn.
[Ann:] Really?
[Enid:] Mm. And St. John's College, Cambridge.
[Ann:] Yes.
[Noel:] St. John's College
[Ann:] Mm.
[Noel:] Cambridge.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Could I... tempt somebody?
[Ann:] A tiny bit, that's lovely thank you.
[Enid:] A slither.
[Ann:] Absolutely delicious!
[Enid:] Well it's got real ginger in it, I think that makes
[Ann:] Oh nice!
[Enid:] it so good doesn't
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] it?
[Ann:] Very nice!
[Enid:] Do you know this was on Food and Drink last week on er, on the television.
[Ann:] Oh well, how... so when what did they do, it was going to be I didn't
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ann:] quite
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Ann:] .
[Mollie:] Jolly good!
[Enid:] And help yourself to the, I'm sad to say that that has curdled since I put it in the jug, do you want me to change it? Do you ever cheat and put a little of cornflour
[Mollie:] It's not gonna fit in though.
[Ann:] Oh it has though, that usually stops
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] it.
[Enid:] And I thought I'd caught it.
[Ann:] Yes.
[Enid:] And I had caught it, it was all over
[Ann:] . No it will, no
[Mollie:] Tell me, what kind of ginger? What fresh ginger?
[Enid:] Er no, it's erm... a flavouring beginning with R
[Mollie:] It's a flavouring is it?
[Enid:] is the
[Ann:] The erm
[Enid:] er... ground ginger of course.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] And then the
[Mollie:] And then, this stem isn't it?
[Ann:] And this is the
[Enid:] stem ginger.
[Noel:] Stem ginger, yes.
[Mollie:] Oh yes! This is lovely!
[Enid:] Will you have a soupcon more?
[Mollie:] Not for me. Stem gin in the
[Enid:] in syrup.
[Mollie:] In syrup.
[Ann:] Oh yes.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] The... whenever I want to... erm... I want to buy ginger... dry ginger to grate
[Ann:] Do you want some more?
[Mollie:] you know.
[Noel:] Pardon?
[Ann:] Do you want some more?
[Mollie:] But I usually take mine
[Noel:] No thanks, that was nice
[Mollie:] with ginger rather than the ginger and
[Ann:] And it's not
[Mollie:] What do you use then?
[Enid:] The fresh ginger.
[Mollie:] No, no, the dry ginger!
[Enid:] Oh the dry ginger
[Mollie:] This is my
[Enid:] ugh!
[Mollie:] dry ginger.
[Enid:] Like rocks isn't it?
[Ann:] Mm.
[Mollie:] What? How can you do that?
[Enid:] It's li, it's like rocks isn't it?
[Mollie:] Well you... well you halve
[Ann:] Well
[Mollie:] it you see and... I mean
[Noel:] And you put it on that
[Mollie:] I mean I was thinking of making gingerbread
[Enid:] Mm!
[Mollie:] you grate the ginger
[Enid:] Mm!
[Mollie:] and as much there
[Ann:] That's the, you grate it very fine
[Enid:] used to it, yeah.
[Mollie:] Yes but, you see when I try to buy some... I think the frozen fish is, shop in Woodbridge is silly, damn silly place anyway! And erm... they offered me a green ginger you see
[Ann:] Mm!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Well now, what could you
[Enid:] Which isn't what you wanted.
[Mollie:] do with green ginger?
[Enid:] You put it into casseroles and things or into the fruit
[Ann:] Is it for Chinese food
[Mollie:] Yes I know but do you eat it or do you just put it in to flavour it?
[Enid:] I think mostly flavour it, I I... I suppose you can eat it but
[Mollie:] Well it's a waste of money!
[Ann:] And you put it in Chinese food!
[Enid:] But you can eat it.
[Noel:] Oh yes, but you put cloves in and you don't eat them, but they flavour it.
[Enid:] to do a ginger, I I've eaten ginger... of that kind
[Ann:] Oh you eat it.
[Enid:] beat it i in... Chinese dishes.
[Mollie:] Because I got some by mistake cos it, yes I know it in Chinese dishes but I don't quite know what they do with it.
[Enid:] Mm. It is good piece I hope?
[Mollie:] Well they were, they were qui, they were as big as that.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] I chucked it out in the end.
[Enid:] If I went to put it in, I was gonna say and I went to put it in er... cos it dries off doesn't it?
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] If I were to put it in er... stewed apples or something I wouldn't eat the actual ginger... but in a casserole, it's nice.
[Mollie:] No, but there's no point in putting it in... in... erm... apples because you... grate your dried
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] with them you see.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] In there. Or you can put erm... ginger
[Enid:] I don't
[Mollie:] in a syrup
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] you can do that.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah I like that.
[Enid:] I've got a lot of, quite of lot of dry ginger, dried ginger. Erm... a little bit more... just a touch more Mollie?
[Mollie:] Not for me, no thank you.
[Enid:] None? I can remember the first time I ever came across dry ginger... one of my school girlfriends was giving me a recipe, which, for which... one er fo for erm... ginger beer
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] for Christmas, and it was delicious the way her mother made it so... she started it with me writing it down, see, and she told me the ingredients and then she said... you brews the ginger... I thought
[Ann:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] brews the ginger? Fancy her saying it! She was my grammar school friend, you see.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] You brews the ginger, so I thought well I'm blessed!
[Ann:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] And of course it was ages before I knew she meant bruise.
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] Once I started to make it I realized,o what it was.
[Ann:] , yes.
[Enid:] B R U I S E.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] But it sounded very
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] peculiar!
[Ann:] I
[Enid:] I must say!
[Ann:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] Mother used to make wonderful ginger beer and we
[Enid:] Ooh!
[Mollie:] were bought up on it!
[Enid:] It's a... wine merchants now.
[John:] Yeah
[speaker005:] Yeah
[John:] it's a
[Enid:] An off-licence.
[speaker005:] Oh!
[John:] Not Oddbins, it's the other one.
[Enid:] No, the other one.
[speaker005:] Oh... yeah, well I've never even been there before.... Look it up again then.
[Enid:] Yeah, there they are, those houses there, you know where them new shops are?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Seconds Out and all that?
[speaker005:] Yeah. Mm.
[Enid:] That, that was o, there's Brill there, see.
[speaker005:] Oh yeah, Brill
[Enid:] We used to go up there, then their house there and th, and that pub was here.
[speaker005:] Oh what the
[Enid:] Exchange.
[speaker005:] Exchange. Wheatsheaf?
[Enid:] And tha the Wheatsheaf, they've knocked that down.
[speaker005:] Yeah, it's not there.
[Enid:] Dorothy Perkins is there.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] And that's Oddbins now innit?
[speaker005:] Yeah, there.... Can't get out of my place [LAUGHTER] can you []?
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] How the west was won []!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Wore cap, wore caps []! Didn't they? Wear pa, caps and big moustaches when they grew up.
[John:] Well everybody wore caps in them days didn't they?
[Enid:] Yeah. We even put a boater on.
[speaker005:] Yeah, he has, a straw boater.
[John:] Must of been a butcher or a baker. [LAUGHTER] Or a candlestick makers []!
[Enid:] Or a candlestick maker! Don't keep farting!
[speaker005:] Red Lion.
[Enid:] Near my mum's,.
[speaker005:] Yep.
[Enid:] That looks like a canal along there dunnit?
[speaker005:] Hey?
[Enid:] Looks like a canal on there.
[John:] Yeah, I thought it was.
[Enid:] No.
[John:] What is it?
[Enid:] It's a we wa wet road innit?
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yeah, it says here, on a sunny day
[John:] The Avon and Wokingham Canal.
[speaker005:] No, that's not even water is it? It's just wet tarmac.
[Enid:] Yeah, it's a wet tarmac.
[speaker005:] Wet.
[Enid:] That's the bit they've knocked down to the put the... Smiths and that, the other side of it, this bit.
[John:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] Oh there's the King's Head.
[Enid:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh, so there's two together then?
[John:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yeah.
[John:] Next door to one another.
[speaker005:] there's the Red Lion there and the King's Head here.
[Enid:] Well it used to be a coaching inn didn't it? The coaches used to go through there. The same as the roads... weren't it?
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] And the bus.
[speaker005:] Yeah, well th the roads actually,yo
[Enid:] The coaches used to
[speaker005:] ta, you actually walk through the middle bit don't you?
[Enid:] No.
[John:] Yeah but yo yo... you do there don't you?
[speaker005:] The coach.
[John:] You walk down the side of the
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[John:] pub there? But that used to be it, cos you go through that ar
[Enid:] I'll just close that door for a minute, because my
[John:] Yeah.
[Enid:] goodness the wind!
[John:] That is er, yeah.
[Enid:] Mm!
[John:] Hello again!
[speaker005:] Hello John.
[John:] Er... yes please?
[Enid:] Yes please. Er two slices of ham please?
[John:] right.... One twenty nine please.
[Enid:] And his bit of fat please, for the birds? If you may?
[John:] Anything else?
[Enid:] Yes please. What about er, this steak for braising John?
[John:] Yeah, that's alright, yeah.
[Enid:] It's nice, is it?
[John:] Yeah.
[Enid:] A pound and a half please?
[John:] Thank you. Do you want it cut up?
[Enid:] Er, no I shall use it probably in
[John:] In?
[Enid:] se, serving pieces.
[John:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] That's lovely beef that you know?
[John:] Yeah, it's lovely beef that.
[Enid:] It looks nice.
[John:] You'll be alright with that.... Pound, five ounces, do you want a wee bit more?
[Enid:] Er, erm... can I see it?
[John:] You can have a little bit more, here are.
[Enid:] I think that's... yes, just a wee bit more to bring it er
[John:] Yeah, just a bit
[Enid:] only a little bit John. Thank you.
[John:] Yeah, that's it then. Pound and
[Enid:] Thank you.
[John:] a half. Alright?
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Anything else?
[Enid:] That's all just now thank you.
[John:] Thank you.... That's four seventy five then altogether.
[Enid:] Thank you. And you've put the price on the eggs, I expect?
[John:] Yeah, that's on the box
[Enid:] Lovely!
[John:] see, yep!
[Enid:] Thank you.
[John:] Yeah. There you go.
[Enid:] Thank you very much.
[John:] Alright
[Enid:] Thank you!
[John:] thank you very much.
[speaker005:] Can I have two chicken breasts please?
[John:] Bye bye then!
[Enid:] Bye bye John!
[John:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Butter please thank
[Pam:] Mam?
[Enid:] you? Thank you, and I think the only other thing I need is erm... you haven't a small caster sugar have you?
[Pam:] No, only that big
[Enid:] Just the one we, er, I'll take that one then
[Pam:] Mhm.
[Enid:] thank you.
[Pam:] Thank you.
[Enid:] And unless I'm being stupid I think that's... really all I need this morning.
[Pam:] Mm.
[Enid:] I've got veg.
[Pam:] One eighty two. Thank you.
[Enid:] Say it again for me, Pam?
[Pam:] One eighty two.
[Enid:] Thank you.... I haven't got the two is that alri, are you alright for change?
[Pam:] Yes, yes. Thank you.... Thanks very much.
[Enid:] Thank you. Thanks very much.
[Pam:] Lovely, thank you.
[Enid:] I'm glad you're keeping your door shut because really
[Pam:] It's a bitter wind today
[Enid:] Oh!
[Pam:] isn't it?
[Enid:] Terrific wind today, yes it is!
[Pam:] Yes, it is!
[Enid:] Bye bye just now!
[Pam:] Thank you, bye bye!
[Enid:] Sorry! [shouting] Hello Stanley []!
[Stanley:] [shouting] Good morning []!
[Enid:] It's me! [LAUGHTER]... Hello.
[Stanley:] Noel didn't come?
[Enid:] No he didn't. He's got some writing he's got to get on
[Stanley:] Oh yes.
[Enid:] with down there. Erm... yes, oh and you... you haven't got your nice fire on yet?
[Stanley:] It smoked like the devil!
[Enid:] Oh!
[Stanley:] Come through here.
[Enid:] Ah!... Oh oh, that's better! That's nice! So you're sitting in here at the moment are you Stanley?
[Stanley:] Yes. Yes, why not? Why not?
[Enid:] Why not, indeed! It is the bitterest morning... that I've
[Stanley:] Oh it is bitter!
[Enid:] Thanks, it's lovely!
[Stanley:] It is bitter.
[Enid:] Oh that's a beauty! Isn't it?
[Stanley:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] And what is the fi, is the kitchen erm... chimney needing to be swept or something then?
[Stanley:] Er, no the dining room.
[Enid:] Er, I mean the dining room, sorry!
[Stanley:] Yes, yes, oh yes I've... well you know the fires on that I had in all the winter I'm going to get on that today. I know it wants er, sweeping.
[Enid:] Yes. Yes.
[Stanley:] It's smoking.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] I da, I I I tried to but I'd smoke the place out!
[Enid:] Aha. Oh that's a pity because that's the room that you
[Stanley:] Aye
[Enid:] use a lot isn't it?
[Stanley:] Oh yes!
[Enid:] Aha.
[Stanley:] But because this in the centre is the warmest room cos there only one door here you see.
[Enid:] Yes. That's true.
[Stanley:] There's five in that other.
[Enid:] Yes... it's lovely! My goodness it's erm... we were all saying yesterday it was summer! Noel cut the grass yesterday can you believe it? And I did
[Stanley:] He did?
[Enid:] Yes. And I weeded the front garden, some of it. Erm... and now look at it today! It's really cold!
[Stanley:] Ye, yesterday afternoon, as a matter of fact, I walked up to the gate... and I come back and I just walked across the lawn and I... I felt the sun.
[Enid:] Yes. Yes.
[Stanley:] Yes, felt the sun. But after one that turned cold again don't it?
[Enid:] It does! It does!
[Stanley:] Oh it's!
[Enid:] Yes. And er, it was funny yesterday morning the birds in the village were singing... just in the way they do in the spri, in the spring, you know, first light.
[Stanley:] Yeah, that's right.
[Enid:] And I thought gosh, if they don't know what's
[Stanley:] Well they've got another month
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Stanley:] before spring in.
[Enid:] That's true. Well that's true!
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] But you see you take it for granted. Tell me Stanley... erm, I brought your medicine from the doctor
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] er, was that because you've not been well this week or just is it a,ro routine replacement or something?
[Stanley:] Well no, that's erm er, water.
[Enid:] Yes, but I, it's not because you've not been well?
[Stanley:] No! No, no, no, no
[Enid:] Oh that's fine.
[Stanley:] no, no, no, no i, no it's a... i i it's old trouble.
[Enid:] Yes I know. I know.
[Stanley:] It's old trouble. I think
[Enid:] I know.
[Stanley:] he's more interested in women than anything else!
[Enid:] Oh! It's sad isn't it? It really is, it's sad!
[Stanley:] I don't know, he come, he said to me... er we we well he come over, you see when I come home from hospital he sa, he had to report to come and see me... he was a long while before he did come! But er, he he hopped on one day and er... had a talk with him and so on and... took my temperature and pulse and that, this, that and other, he said well... I'll call again he said, when I'm by, but he never did!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] He never called!
[Enid:] Mm. I don't think he
[Stanley:] I had to ring!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] And I said to him, I said well I hope I don't mind er me ringing the doctor, well he said no that's what we're here for. But he said, I've got three hours of paperwork! Well that's nothing to do with it!
[Enid:] Absolutely! Absolutely!
[Stanley:] Nothing to do with it!
[Enid:] I mean, it doesn't stop him from going shooting and fishing does it?
[Stanley:] Oh no!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Stanley:] No, no, that's the thing. I think he's a little bit envious because... er, I took those meadows back, you see.
[Enid:] Possibly, yes.
[Stanley:] Cos he used to go shooting there and and they went in there and they shouldn't of done because Michael told them I'd taken meadows back... and he sa, he said when Tony told them, they, they'd been there shooting he said well they're, they're out of bounds!
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Stanley:] He said I told them... that.
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Stanley:] But they took advantage, the boys did and they don't care at all!
[Enid:] Ye, yes that's right, mm.
[Stanley:] They take liberties.
[Enid:] Yes, they do, they do, it's a shame!
[Stanley:] I think... that a little bit apprehensive on things like that, and course when he saw Tony... asked whether ga, whether he could go and Tony said no, I'm sorry Doc but that he said I've got my ponies and things there and I don't want people shooting there!
[Enid:] Of course not! No.
[Stanley:] There's them foals from, round the back, they don't want them.
[Enid:] Yes. Aha.
[Stanley:] I'm sorry to keep on. But I'm sure you go down there yourself.
[Enid:] Yes. Yes, that's
[Stanley:] Oh yes!
[Enid:] true
[Stanley:] But they,th th th they just walk on, they don't have to pay anything
[Enid:] No.
[Stanley:] !
[Enid:] No! [LAUGHTER] No []!
[Stanley:] Walk over you!
[Enid:] Well they just think they're in a privileged position Stanley!
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] And the only privilege they have is of looking after us isn't it?
[Stanley:] Yeah, that's right! Yes, that's right!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Really!
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] And getting well
[Stanley:] And what you
[Enid:] paid for it!
[Stanley:] what you've got, they're entitled to!
[Enid:] Absolutely! [LAUGHTER] That's right []!
[Stanley:] That's nice of them!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Yes, absolutely []!
[Stanley:] Well that's right innit?
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] Oh dear oh dear! Oh heck!
[Stanley:] Well, so... there you are and I told them, he he said that he wanted erm... a urine sample you see and so of course when the nurse come after he'd gone, later... and I kept waiting and I thought to myself well I want to know the result!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Jackie said, well ring them,sh he should know something about it!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] And that don't take a week, week to test anything like that!
[Enid:] It shouldn't do, no.
[Stanley:] When it's gone to hospital. And, I rang, I better ask him you see, and of course, who was the lady in the office?
[Enid:] Oh she's called Jean. She's very nice!
[Stanley:] Who is it?
[Enid:] Jean, her name.
[Stanley:] Jean?
[Enid:] I don't know her other name.
[Stanley:] She is a very nice person.
[Enid:] A very nice person.
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] She is.
[Stanley:] Polite and such like.
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] Yes, I I think to, well what a nice person you are to, to talk to!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Nice personality I shouldn't
[Enid:] Very nice!
[Stanley:] reckon. And I got that, well... and she sa, she said... er, when I asked them fo for some er... tablets he said... alright, can you send down for them? I said yes, he said alright I'll have them ready. They'll be ready. And same as those, she said, they'll be ready any time after lunch, so I
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] said thank you very much.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] And er
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] but erm... I said to her... over there, I said er, well excuse me I said er da er er a doctor, I, I said took a urine test for me and I said I want to know that I, if he knew the results? She said, well I'll look up... well he never told her... and he never told me!
[Enid:] No. No.
[Stanley:] And so she looked up, she said, that is right... she said, alright, and er he prescribed some more water pills. Well why didn't he... get on with it?
[Enid:] People complain that these tests seem to take longer than they need to.
[Stanley:] Well I think so, yeah!
[Enid:] Whether the hold up is at the hospital... or in the erm... surgery... I
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] honestly don't know! But it does seem to take a while.
[Stanley:] Oh dear oh dear!
[Enid:] Oh what have I done? What? Oh! Oh it's just a
[Stanley:] You can't be
[Enid:] Yes I can Stanley it's just a it's just an outdated bill.
[Stanley:] Is it?
[Enid:] That's all, came out of my
[Stanley:] Well
[Enid:] pocket.
[Stanley:] the thing is, after all's said and done if er,i i if there's a little pain I get it, not him!
[Enid:] Absolutely! [LAUGHTER]
[Stanley:] So he can hang on can't he?
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]... That's right!
[Stanley:] There's a... no, I don't think he's too obliged as he should be!
[Enid:] No, he's not a, I don't think he's as a as some
[Stanley:] They tell me that is a, is a, a lot better value.
[Enid:] He is wonderful!
[Stanley:] They
[Enid:] He
[Stanley:] say he's a nice little fellow!
[Enid:] My gosh, he's wonderful! Everybody wants him you know.
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] I should think his list is absolutely full by now.
[Stanley:] Yes, of course.
[Enid:] Erm, the first time I met him was when he was doing a very tricky... stitching job, I took Mollie up
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] because she'd cut her leg
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] and er... I took her up there... and her si, skin is like tissue paper
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] I don't know how that man... managed to get the two edges to meet... but he did a wonderful job on it! And he was so nice to her when he was doing it.
[Stanley:] Yes, he's a nice person of
[Enid:] You're very nice!
[Stanley:] then Mrs erm... er,, you know, who had the mu...
[Enid:] Oh yes!
[Stanley:] she think a lot of him!
[Enid:] Lucky girl!
[Stanley:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Those people who live there... in, up in Framlingham are very lucky!
[Stanley:] Ha? Yes.
[Enid:] And those people who live near enough
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] you see, to the main surgery.
[Stanley:] Well of course when is out, they they give you the the 's number
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] in fact, one time when they was out... they give me a number, I go, and I got!
[Enid:] Oh yes! Yes.
[Stanley:] Well... and I had er er erm erm... what's the name? Ha! What do you call them,?
[Enid:] A tummy upset?
[Stanley:] No! Skin!
[Enid:] Oh, not erm... shingles?
[Stanley:] Shingles, I had a touch
[Enid:] Oh!
[Stanley:] of shingles.
[Enid:] Gosh! Mm.
[Stanley:] And I said to him, he said what's the matter? And I told him, I said I've got shingles... so I said well I got them... he said and... red round the stomach. Ha, ha, ha, he said! I thought to myself, not so much of the ha, ha, ha! That's what he's li, er, wasn't a way to tell nobody was it?
[Enid:] No, it wasn't. You see, that's another one.
[Stanley:] He didn't feel it did he?
[Enid:] No, he didn't feel, absolutely
[Stanley:] No!
[Enid:] Stanley! No, that's not
[Stanley:] I thought to myself, who's this then? That's something I don't sa, not so matter that I could have told him!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] That isn't a way to get through to people!
[Enid:] No it isn't! No it's not.
[Stanley:] Cos after all, we don't go private but we're paying!
[Enid:] Tha abs
[Stanley:] And I've payed for years and years for myself and four other people besides!
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Stanley:] No, some
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] of them get too... snooty in a way.
[Enid:] Yes, they get, they're a bit less committed. I think the
[Stanley:] And, as you say with, well if he can go fishing and shooting, I don't know about that, they take priority!
[Enid:] Yes. Yes, that's true. Mhm. There's another very nice one there, he's the latest to have come... erm...
[Stanley:] . What in
[Enid:] oh and he's just
[Stanley:] at Framlingham?
[Enid:] Yes. And he's very young, he's i, I met him... twice, when I was with people who... were dying
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] and erm... in fact, yes, but both of just had died and we sent for... the doctor and it's
[Stanley:] Aha.
[Enid:] it was he who came... and erm... he was absolutely marvellous! I thought his manner was... just right.
[Stanley:] Makes all the difference doesn't it?
[Enid:] Oh yes! It does make a lot of
[Stanley:] I mean
[Enid:] difference, yes
[Stanley:] a person like that... can help another person to get well can't they?
[Enid:] They can! They can. I mean,th there is something to be said for the manner towards you isn't there?
[Stanley:] Ooh yes!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] That's true.
[Stanley:] I mean, when you look forward to seeing the doctor and one thing and another, and saying, have a conversation with them, that's a different story innit?
[Enid:] That's true.
[Stanley:] And buck you up a bit.
[Enid:] Oh absolutely!
[Stanley:] That's something you
[Enid:] Absolutely! Yes!
[Stanley:] if you think to yourself well if I can have a... a quarter of an hour's chat with him, that'd be worth something.
[Enid:] That's right. That's true.
[Stanley:] Yes. I don't know why some of them get like that, well of course they shouldn't be doctors any how. And tha tha th th a doctor should have a nice personality!
[Enid:] He should. I think in some cases, Stanley, not only in the me, medical profession... the more people are paid... the less committed they seem to be to the job!
[Stanley:] Yes, they do, they get independent!
[Enid:] Yes. They begin to feel that the job is there so that they can earn a living, rather than that they are doing the job itself!
[Stanley:] That's right, yes. Yes.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] Th th er theirselves, they take priority not the patient!
[Enid:] That's what I feel. Yes.
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] I'm sorry about it because... you know, how I feel about the... medical profession and the nursing
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] profession.
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] Ye, I mean I'm passionately keen! But erm... I I think some of them let us down a bit. Mm.
[Stanley:] Yes. Well there you are, I don't know whether it's wrong. Course, they drop onto you any old time if they come but if they can't
[Enid:] Oh yes, if they want to come it doesn't matter if it's convenient to you or not [LAUGHTER] does it []!
[Stanley:] Not a bit of it! Not a bit of it! Oh no
[Enid:] That's true.
[Stanley:] not a bit of it.
[Enid:] That's true.
[Stanley:] Well I mean after all they want er an appointment!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] But you don't get no appointment!
[Enid:] That's right, you don't.
[Stanley:] Oh no! You see
[Enid:] That's true.
[Stanley:] you take second place, definitely!
[Enid:] Yes. I'm sorry
[Stanley:] Well
[Enid:] it is true with some
[Stanley:] I mean, after all
[Enid:] of them.
[Stanley:] you're, we're their customers!
[Enid:] Ah, that's right!
[Stanley:] That's their living innit?
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] Withou, they need er er anyone like ourselves, well, er er they'd have nothing to do!
[Enid:] That's right. Absolutely! And of course they're not so hard pressed as people are in these big cities!
[Stanley:] Oh no!
[Enid:] You know, they have a nicer time of it here altogether don't they?
[Stanley:] Oh undoubtedly! Undoubtedly!
[Enid:] Yes. They do.
[Stanley:] Because, I mean, there you are, look, I mean... for argument's sake, now, well they have e e every Tuesday off or some Monday or Tuesday off don't he?
[Enid:] Mhm. He does.
[Stanley:] The same as that Doctor used to come down and er
[Enid:] Oh yes!
[Stanley:] for him.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] He was quite a nice fellow!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] So far.
[Enid:] Yes, he's in... Debenham now.
[Stanley:] Debenham, yes.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] He lived on the green didn't he,?
[Enid:] He did.
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Do he live at Debenham now?
[Enid:] Er, I think he does live at Debenham. Yes.
[Stanley:] He, yeah.
[Enid:] I know he operates from there anyway.
[Stanley:] Yeah. Right.
[Enid:] Mm. Yes.
[Stanley:] But then I mean... come and saw me once, you see, when I wasn't there like that and... he he tested from top to bottom, he said well... ar ar after we sit and talked, and like he said well I better give you the once over, I said th er, certainly. And so he he tested and such like and... he shook his head and he said well... I don't know, I can't find anything wrong with you.
[Enid:] No.
[Stanley:] And he said you're a better man than I am!
[Enid:] Really?
[Stanley:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Aha. Yes.
[Stanley:] And that's what said, and that's what
[Enid:] That's what the hospital said!
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] Remember?
[Stanley:] Yes! And that is what er Doctor said!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] And!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] I've had four doctors tell me I'm a better man than them!
[Enid:] Well you wouldn't be ninety five if you were weakling would you Stanley?
[Stanley:] No I don't suppose so.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Stanley:] I don't suppose so. Poor old Doctor, he said you'll never wear your heart out.
[Enid:] Really?
[Stanley:] He said, whereas an ordinary man live till they're... seventy... you'll live till you're ninety!
[Enid:] Fancy! He knew, you see.
[Stanley:] See an
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] and... and when er erm come over here the last time... er, I I told him a a that he say, Doctor, you see, told what he said, he is a clever old boy weren't he?
[Enid:] Yes. Well he was.
[Stanley:] said that!
[Enid:] said that, yes, yes.
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] Aha.
[Stanley:] And they don't often speak like that of one another.
[Enid:] No, they don't often refer to one another do they?
[Stanley:] No they don't, that's right.
[Enid:] You see it's not thought to be the thing
[Stanley:] That's right.
[Enid:] to do.
[Stanley:] That's right.
[Enid:] Ah! Yes. Oh he was a, he was a lovely man, wasn't he, Doctor?
[Stanley:] Oh aye, I liked him, yeah. George liked him.
[Enid:] Did he?
[Stanley:] Yes, yes, quite good.
[Enid:] Yes. Yes, well of course they
[Stanley:] Yes, he ought used to be, he was in Scotland he wasn't bro, brought George.
[Enid:] Did he?
[Stanley:] Oh yes, yes
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] yes.
[Enid:] Oh he was a real gentleman.
[Stanley:] Yes, no problem like that.
[Enid:] Wonderful!
[Stanley:] Well George got on with a lot of people like that but of course, he was a Mason you see.
[Enid:] Oh, was he?
[Stanley:] He is that, but that's why he kept them he used to go down there with him, he got a big photograph of Captain like that er, in his room here and so on.
[Enid:] Aha.
[Stanley:] Well a man of nearly seventy years!
[Enid:] Is that so?
[Stanley:] Yeah.
[Enid:] My God!
[Stanley:] They had... they had a few minutes silence for him when he died down Framlingham.
[Enid:] Did they?
[Stanley:] Yes, they
[Enid:] Did they?
[Stanley:] Because er... er er Len a Mason you see.
[Enid:] Is he?
[Stanley:] Yes. And he drives in London... er er er for meeting!
[Enid:] Does he really? They're very keen aren't they?
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] Aha.
[Stanley:] Yes, David
[Enid:] Some
[Stanley:] what's-a-name, er er said to me, have you ever thought about? I said I'm past that my dear!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Stanley:] I'm past that.
[Enid:] Noel's not keen on them, he's been asked to become a Mason sometimes
[Stanley:] Yes, right.
[Enid:] but he just, it's not, somehow it's hi, not his sort of thing.
[Stanley:] No well erm, I did ask, old Chris spoke to me once in the park and then there's and things like that, cos a certain amount of secrecy in the, things like that... and erm... I I sort of turned it down and he even er er er... well while and and Len that... said Stanley did you ever think about joining the Masons? Well I said I'm too old for that now.
[Enid:] Mhm. Mm. Well you've
[Stanley:] So they
[Enid:] had plenty to do to fill your time without belonging to
[Stanley:] Well yes, after all's
[Enid:] that sort of thing.
[Stanley:] said and done, mm, after all's said and done course I... well I said there's good, bad, and indifferent everything cos I know some Masons who are blinking great rogues, you know!
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] Old George used to be an old... he was always keen to be executor for anybody you know.
[Enid:] Really?
[Stanley:] Oh yes, and he could get executor, he was executor for one poor old lady... old Mrs used to live on the causeway... er... er er, the first little house... you know where the th th, er you're coming this way... on the causeway... there's The Elms, ain't they?
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] And then on, at the back, there's a little cottage near the start there... she used to live in that little cottage.
[Enid:] Oh yes!
[Stanley:] Well... old Jack... er, he di used to do the post round and he lived in the next cottage
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] they were two thick people. And the old lady when he was out like that, before and he used to go to Framlingham carrying the bags and such like, and then deliver, come back poor old boy!
[Enid:] From the
[Stanley:] He had a little shop... not much, you know just a few things and such like, in those days.
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] Well, she used to sort of keep shop for him, she was deaf as a post!
[Enid:] Really?
[Stanley:] Yeah, she was deaf as a po! But however, she us, poor old soul, she did her best... well... Jackie's mother used to go see her
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] and of course when old Jack died... er, Jack... he left things to her you see
[Enid:] Oh yes.
[Stanley:] and that, which is natural. That was the time when there was a first portable radios come out
[Enid:] Oh! Yes.
[Stanley:] er a Phillips I think, one, one of those portable ones, that was... rather unique. And... there was a draw... tickets for it... and old Jack won it!. Old Jack had won it! Well, old was doing the the executorship for them because he poked his nose into everything!
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] He used to live up at The Dial. And... poor old Sarah said, well how much did she owe him you see? Well he said he'd take the radio.
[Enid:] Oh good gracious!
[Stanley:] So he took the radio instead of, part payment you see, that was the first time. Well then, cos he was doing executor for poor old soul... poor old... and er... Ivy used to go and see her pretty frequently, she said do come and see me Mrs? Cos she got a little bit lonely.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] But of course,th, I'd been living at The Haven then, next to the butcher's shop. Go and see her. So one day she said to her... Mrs, you haven't got a car have you? Ivy said no we haven't, she said you will have one day.
[Enid:] Really? Mhm.
[Stanley:] If anything happened to me.
[Enid:] Really? Aha.
[Stanley:] Judge, old was executor... he went there one day... and he got her to sign her will
[Enid:] Goodness! Goodness!
[Stanley:] in favour of him!
[Enid:] Oh well that's awful Stanley!
[Stanley:] That's a Mason!
[Enid:] Yes, oh that's awful! Mm.
[Stanley:] When Ivy went... he took... clerk with them down at... as a witness. When Ivy went to see her she said oh Mrs... Mr came to see me yesterday afternoon... he brought another gentleman with him, a nice gentleman so I... she said... I think they were taking the census, they got me to sign a paper.
[Enid:] Oh dear! Oh!
[Stanley:] And she'd signed her own will!
[Enid:] Oh! Dear oh dear!
[Stanley:] And so when... she died, he swept the deck!
[Enid:] Oh, that is dreadful!
[Stanley:] That's a Mason!
[Enid:] Mm. Mm. That's dreadful!
[Stanley:] Yeah, that's a Mason!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] Now, there's another one. Old Mrs... old lady who was in Framlingham, the dentist?
[Enid:] No, I don't reme, no, I don't remember
[Stanley:] Well in any case
[Enid:] that name.
[Stanley:] She, she come from Walthamstow. And then when her
[Enid:] Ah yeah.
[Stanley:] her husband died... she'd picked out a bit of land... all this and I borrowed this and one thing and another, so well they never found a penny!
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] If we hadn't got the money to pay for cash on delivery I never want it!
[Enid:] No.
[Stanley:] I done without!
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] Well... we kept on like that... and... er er... people like that we were packing up wholesale... so... erm... I've lost myself a little bit now.
[Enid:] No, you were talking about er... about your... cousin... Mr.
[Stanley:] Oh yes, that's
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] right! Yes, I was talking about... he used to come over here a lot.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] Come over here and spent his... silver wedding just to come here and his golden wedding!
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] He loved to come here take a slog and go down the meadows.
[Enid:] Oh yes!
[Stanley:] That was his type.
[Enid:] Aha.
[Stanley:] He he he er loved that!
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] And he loved a horse better than he would a Rolls Royce!
[Enid:] Really?
[Stanley:] Yes
[Enid:] Mm mm.
[Stanley:] he was that type of person.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Well... I knew someone in and I thought to myself I, perhaps he might lend me a hand? I did touch them one time you see but of course there was nothing doing he wan me! Some years afterwards... walking down here after he'd... been his for his... silver wedding, golden wedding and so on er, coming down that... dri drift down from the back... he looked at me... he said I don't know boy! I got a nice bit of money and such like... I don't know who to leave it to.... I said, well I don't want it. I'd got on my feet you see
[Enid:] Yes, that's right. Yes. Mhm. That was good.
[Stanley:] He never forgot that!
[Enid:] Is that so?
[Stanley:] On two occasions he, repeated me that like that.
[Enid:] Mm mm.
[Stanley:] He used to come over here. He went off and told his gardener, Wilfred... he said Stanley won't have any. That was a surprise to him!
[Enid:] Mm. Good on you!
[Stanley:] But I hadn't got much but I'd got on my feet.
[Enid:] That's right, and you didn't need anybody else's!
[Stanley:] And I thought to myself, keep it boy!
[Enid:] Yes. Yes.
[Stanley:] I told him.
[Enid:] Yes. Yes.
[Stanley:] But otherwise said I could have it, he would of left that to me.
[Enid:] Mhm. Mhm.
[Stanley:] Cos he always over here!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Always over here.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] But that was the biggest shock he ever had!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]... That you didn't want it.
[Stanley:] That was. And
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] thought to myself, yes... in a sense I could of done with that so far but I thought, no, I'll stick up and
[Enid:] Yes your independence
[Stanley:] stand on my own legs! So I told
[Enid:] means a lot.
[Stanley:] him.
[Enid:] Ha.
[Stanley:] I told him.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] And he
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] and Wilfred told me himself... when I went up there!
[Enid:] Really? Aha.
[Stanley:] Yes, he told me what said to him.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] It all comes round.
[Enid:] Oh yes! And it's done you no harm
[Stanley:] It always comes round!
[Enid:] has it Stanley?
[Stanley:] Pardon?
[Enid:] It's done you no harm to stand on your own feet has it?
[Stanley:] No, it hasn't!
[Enid:] No.
[Stanley:] No, it
[Enid:] No.
[Stanley:] hasn't. No.
[Enid:] That's the way. If only people would be a bit more like that sometimes today.
[Stanley:] What I wa, what I want to get... I've saved up an,an an an an earned it and
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Lily and I like that... and we bought the self and we felt independent.
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] And I've always was a little bit independent.
[Enid:] Yes. Oh it's the best way to be Stanley.
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] It's the best way to be. Aha.
[Stanley:] And a fellow said to me... about two ye, two to three years ago I expect it was... two telegraph people... up that pole out an... just outside of my gate... and he's still there and I walk along the gate... and he turned round to me... he say you're a lucky man! I said what do you mean,yo, me a lucky man? Well he said, living in a nice place like this. You call it luck? I said, when I earned a pound I spent nineteen and sixpence, not a guinea like some of you!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Right [].
[Stanley:] And he never said no more.
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] No.
[Enid:] Ah, they caught them. That's right.
[Stanley:] Two people come now doing the water, the... the stop cap... and one fellow looked across... coo he said a big, I said I'll have a run a over the left... I said, now you wouldn't would you? Cos I don't mind, I lo I thi, I'm not afraid of work.
[Enid:] No. No. Jolly good!
[Stanley:] They're the sort of people you get.
[Enid:] That's right! Absolutely!
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] I I don't know, by the way, there ar, your gate is open and there is a er, red van out there.
[Stanley:] I opened it.
[Enid:] They do, oh! Th, oh for me did you?
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] Ah, that's sweet of you! So when I go... you'd like me to shut it probably would you?
[Stanley:] Well i i if you don't mind? If not I can shut it.
[Enid:] Oh no! Well it doesn't take me a minute. I just wondered whether it was because the erm... men with the red van at the gate there
[Stanley:] Oh no no the
[Enid:] are doing something here.
[Stanley:] No, no! Cos I
[Enid:] They're working are they?
[Stanley:] I knew you were coming and so I went and opened the gate.
[Enid:] Ah, so you did. That's sweet of you!
[Stanley:] I thought
[Enid:] That's kind! Stanley I do not
[Stanley:] You know
[Enid:] erm... yeah?
[Stanley:] Pardon? That take all sorts to make a world you know.
[Enid:] Oh yes, indeed it does! Oh it
[Stanley:] Yep.
[Enid:] does! And we've got them too, Stanley! We've got them! [LAUGHTER]
[Stanley:] A lot of people
[Enid:] I think we've got all sorts!
[Stanley:] now like this. Well George come the other day, now he's a working fellow!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] He's got a little sense!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] He earned a lot of money... and he save it, he then bought a British car.
[Enid:] Mm, yes.
[Stanley:] He paid for it!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] That's the sor... he say, nobody need go short today!
[Enid:] That's true. Mm.
[Stanley:] Other people... what do they do? They take the money... they go and buy videos, they buy records, they go and... bu ba for fo football and all si
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] they spend the money in the wrong direction! There's no return!
[Enid:] No. That's right Stanley.
[Stanley:] And then they
[Enid:] It's
[Stanley:] say they're short!
[Enid:] Yes. That's what you've been saying all the time this sort of bank lending's been going on haven't you?
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Stanley:] Yes!
[Enid:] It's madness really!
[Stanley:] Ooh yes! And then
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] th a th th I mean th, all these repossessed houses... they're lived far beyond their end zone!
[Enid:] Yes, they do.
[Stanley:] They're ordinary working people, they wanna be independent gentlemen!
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] And the banks and building societies have encouraged them!
[Enid:] They have, I'm afraid, they have!
[Stanley:] Pushed the money onto them!
[Enid:] And now of course they're paying the price too because
[Stanley:] Course!
[Enid:] they're in a mess!
[Stanley:] It's their own fault!
[Enid:] Absolutely!
[Stanley:] As you make your bed you lie on it!
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] That's as simple as that! After all said and done, people live
[Enid:] It is really.
[Stanley:] far beyond their income... and when they get the money they spend it in the wrong direction
[Enid:] That's right, because they haven't
[Stanley:] haven't they?
[Enid:] had to work so hard for it perhaps, you see.
[Stanley:] No!
[Enid:] They've borrowed
[Stanley:] You see
[Enid:] it instead.
[Stanley:] you see... go to a football match, or buying some... er electrical appliance... appeal to them far more... than paying the rent!
[Enid:] Yes, that's right. But a lot of people
[Stanley:] They don't pay the rent, no, ah ra, the tax payers have to make that up!
[Enid:] That's true in many cases... that's true.
[Stanley:] They've got swelled heads, people have!
[Enid:] Yes, they have Stanley. It's very foolish!
[Stanley:] I wonder if anybody would know... that what happened here... ah er er... two or three year ago was a... up till re recently... they know very well that couldn't last!
[Enid:] Couldn't last, could it?
[Stanley:] Couldn't last! I know,
[Enid:] It wasn't reality.
[Stanley:] went and borrowed an eighty thousand pound and bought a house
[Enid:] That's right. Mhm.
[Stanley:] well, he had to scrape to pay the rent at all! Then, on the other hand he had to go short indoors, well then when the... I er th th,th er the interest went up, cos he!
[Enid:] They don't work out how much they're paying for their money
[Stanley:] No, they don't!
[Enid:] do they? No.
[Stanley:] They go to silly people like
[Enid:] It is really!
[Stanley:] that!
[Enid:] Is really.
[Stanley:] And the first thing they do th they go to the wo er er bo the boss of the firm where they work for... and want more money!
[Enid:] That's right. They can't manage.
[Stanley:] We couldn't do that! What do you
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] think we are!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Yes [].
[Stanley:] They, and and they they've they've on the ba ba had their unions run the blessed country!
[Enid:] Well they did. Certainly, they did.
[Stanley:] I sa
[Enid:] And they will again, Stanley!
[Stanley:] I said
[Enid:] If we get the wrong people in.
[Stanley:] that Jackie will tell you the same, I told her mother anything from thirty to forty years ago... I said, that don't matter some toss what political power they get in power you'll find the unions will run the country
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] the way they're going on!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] They demand things!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] If, for argument's sake, they want fifty pound, they demand sixty!
[Enid:] That's right. That's right.
[Stanley:] And they know they'll get something.
[Enid:] That's right.
[Stanley:] Well
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Stanley:] all that money that they keep demanding from the... er th wa th wa the firms and such like that... ought to have been ploughed back into the firm!
[Enid:] That's right. That's right Stanley.
[Stanley:] If they robbed the firm, they're robbing themselves!
[Enid:] Yes, and then they are.
[Stanley:] Anthony said years ago, when the rail ma men went on strike... why do it? You'll only bring misery and distress on your own country!
[Enid:] Absolutely!
[Stanley:] And that's as true today!
[Enid:] Yes. It is!
[Stanley:] But they can't see it! All of them around... they kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
[Enid:] Well that's the trouble, they do! Yes.
[Stanley:] Yes, but then
[Enid:] They do.
[Stanley:] these firms are gonna pack up!
[Enid:] Exactly! Exactly, and then they lose the lot then don't they?
[Stanley:] there's only one thought for th sa for them and that's for theirse [tape cuts off]
[Enid:] I got erm... Patsy coming in for a bite of lunch
[Stanley:] Oh yes.
[Enid:] erm... because we didn't see her last week.
[Stanley:] Yes. Well we
[Enid:] And we
[Stanley:] better get the sweeper sometimes then.
[Enid:] Oh you need to Stanley won't you? Because er... I can't bear to think of you without this room with that lovely fire in.
[Stanley:] Well, there you are. There's always some, look at my birds!
[Enid:] Oh yes, the birds are there still aren't they? [LAUGHTER]... Here's some fat for them. That's your medicine Stanley.
[Stanley:] Just a minute. Come on sweetheart.... [whistling]
[Enid:] Aren't they marvellous! They come straight away don't they?
[Stanley:] Yeah.
[Enid:] They're wonderful! That's your medicine... there... your eggs there.
[Stanley:] The instructions on them I suppose?
[Enid:] Sorry?
[Stanley:] The instructions on it are
[Enid:] Oh
[Stanley:] they?
[Enid:] Oh, it says, Stanley... well you can read it I'm sure. Please repeat the water test... when you've finished the tablets.
[Stanley:] Please what?
[Enid:] Repeat the water test
[Stanley:] Oh yeah.
[Enid:] when you've finished the tablets.
[Stanley:] Repeat?
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Ah! That's
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] the word I wanted.
[Enid:] After you've taken those.
[Stanley:] Righto! I expect they'll tell you how many to take.
[Enid:] I sho, I suppose so. Can I just check? I'm sure they will.
[Stanley:] Yes, you look, you look at them.
[Enid:] I'm sure they will Stanley.
[Stanley:] You look at them.
[Enid:] Whoops! Yes, that one's two tablets twice a day... and that's for the water test.
[Stanley:] I see.
[Enid:] Alright?
[Stanley:] So I gotta take them both? What
[Enid:] Er
[Stanley:] are they for?
[Enid:] bu, you take that... to, er two tablets twice a day... that's it. Two... tablets twice a day. So that's probably
[Stanley:] Yes, well what are these?
[Enid:] morning and evening. They are perhaps new ones, I don't know. Are they?
[Stanley:] I dunno, I'll take them but
[Enid:] Yes. Two twice a day.
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] And then this is for your water test.
[Stanley:] Right. And er, what
[Enid:] When those are finished.
[Stanley:] When those are finished?
[Enid:] Yes. That's just to put the water in... to put your urine in you see. Let me see it before, ooh I mustn't open it because it'll be ste
[Stanley:] Oh no!
[Enid:] it'll be sterile, you see. It is, it's
[Stanley:] Ooh he want, he want that for a test?
[Enid:] He wants that,yo, he wants you to put some water in that for a test, some of your water in that
[Stanley:] That's right. Fine.
[Enid:] for a test...
[Stanley:] after I've used them?
[Enid:] After you've used those.
[Stanley:] That's alright.
[Enid:] And Stanley, we don't open that in the meantime because
[Stanley:] No, no!
[Enid:] it's sterile.
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] And so it must be for your test, you see?
[Stanley:] Yes, quite.
[Enid:] Okay?
[Stanley:] So after I've finished those lot twice a day
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Well they're the
[Enid:] Two twice a day.
[Stanley:] Two twice a day.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Well that's four a day.
[Enid:] It is.
[Stanley:] Then er, put some urine in there
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] and let him have it.
[Enid:] That's right! That's it.
[Stanley:] Well I can send it down with anybody.
[Enid:] That's right. Oh yes, well er... er, yes you can because you need to send it down when it's fresh.
[Stanley:] Oh yes!
[Enid:] Er, so if nobody's going down give me a ring and I'll come and get it.
[Stanley:] Thank you.
[Enid:] Alright?
[Stanley:] Thank you.
[Enid:] So erm
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] your fat, what
[Stanley:] I might get the old lady to go down for me.
[Enid:] Well er, only if she's going.
[Stanley:] If she's going.
[Enid:] Yes. That's right.
[Stanley:] If she's going.
[Enid:] There's the fat Stanley.
[Stanley:] How much do you want?
[Enid:] It's one twenty nine please.
[Stanley:] One... twenty did you say?
[Enid:] Er, one twenty nine Stanley. Please.
[Stanley:] Twenty
[Enid:] If you've got a ten, I've got a one.
[Stanley:] I got, I've got one. Twenty five
[Enid:] Ah.
[Stanley:] six, seven... eight, nine.
[Enid:] Good! That's clever.
[Stanley:] That's right.
[Enid:] You almost always have change don't you?
[Stanley:] Pardon?
[Enid:] Almost always have the right change.
[Stanley:] Yes. Yes.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Stanley:] Try to.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Stanley:] Try to. Try to.
[Enid:] There.
[Stanley:] Thank you very much.
[Enid:] You're very welcome Stanley. And I'll see you again... next week, but if you need anything in the meantime give me a ring will you?
[Stanley:] I will, thank you very much.
[Enid:] Do that dear.
[Stanley:] Thank you.
[Enid:] And, try to keep warm and keep out of this wind.
[Stanley:] Yes, that's right.
[Enid:] Bye bye dear!
[Stanley:] That's right.
[Enid:] And I'll... shut the gate.
[Stanley:] Alright.
[Enid:] Okay, so you tha, you don't need to come out at all. There we are.
[Stanley:] Oh the wind is still cold!
[Enid:] It's keen!
[Stanley:] It's keen, indeed!
[Enid:] Yes it is.
[Stanley:] Yes.
[Enid:] Right. Bye bye then Stanley!
[Stanley:] Bye bye!
[Enid:] Bye bye!
[Patsy:] erm... I think it can't be bad for you... because... you do quite a lot of the same exercise as you'd do in proper aerobics
[Noel:] Yes.
[Patsy:] but you're in the water the whole time.
[Noel:] I don't even know what proper aerobics are anyhow.
[Patsy:] Oh you just keep moving the whole time. Running on the spot and waving your arms about
[Noel:] Just seem to keep moving all the time without even running on the spot.
[Patsy:] Yeah well... this is, this is... you know it's very difficult to run in the water
[Noel:] I know it is.
[Patsy:] cos it keeps getting round your feet and sort of
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] making you drop over.
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Patsy:] And I suppose developing the muscles that keep you... from dropping over... it's pro can't be, can't be a bad thing.
[Noel:] I suppose it can't, no. I
[Patsy:] And then you do other exercises like lying on your back, putting your feet... your... from the knees downwards over the edge of the pool... and then trying to do sit ups.
[Noel:] Good heavens!
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] I'm too old for any of that.
[Enid:] But Noel, isn't exercise against resistance is supposed to have some special benefit isn't it?...
[Noel:] Well I'm doing that all the time, I'm doing it with you my love.
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Oh come off it.
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER] Erm... I don't know, I, I, I, I... I just feel that this is... that sort of exercise where... er
[Enid:] Ooh sorry.
[Patsy:] it only lasts an hour, it's not going to do any harm
[Enid:] No I'm sure it isn't.
[Patsy:] it's erm a good thing to be doing.
[Enid:] Because swimming's
[Noel:] I think something that does do harm is jogging.
[Patsy:] Yeah well
[Enid:] Well yes that's a beast.
[Patsy:] I, I did a little jog this morning with the dogs cos it was too cold to walk.
[Noel:] Oh [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Ah yes....
[Patsy:] And I've got another one this afternoon I think.
[Noel:] Have you ever been in the sauna at er Woodbridge?
[Patsy:] No I haven't.
[Noel:] Er er no I haven't either. Er I one, went into one at Iceland that was... it was lovely.
[Patsy:] I've been in a sauna in London... I belong to a health club there.
[Noel:] Mm....
[Patsy:] I used to play squash.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Enid:] That's a violent one isn't it, squash?...
[Patsy:] Yes....
[Enid:] I, I can't think that really violent exercise is a good thing generally is it? Something that's more measured
[Patsy:] Oh I don't think... I don't think it hurts when you're young, I think when you're older you should only do it if you've done warming up first.
[Enid:] I think so too probably, and you've been used to it. That let's us off, isn't it nice?...
[Patsy:] I think the warming up exercises in themselves are a good thing though
[Noel:] Mm.
[Patsy:] even if you don't do anything after
[Noel:] Mm.
[Patsy:] after warming up.... The class I go to on Monday evenings... erm... we do warming up exercises... and I'd be quite happy if they just stayed warming up exercises for the whole hour.
[Enid:] Yes.... Have you got someone properly qualified taking them?
[Patsy:] Yes, she's very good.
[Enid:] Mm....
[Noel:] I went to a sauna in Iceland
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Noel:] and then was able to straight, in, in the hotel it was
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Noel:] straight up in the lift to my bedroom and it was lovely you know, yeah... in the hot, in the swimming pa pool
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Noel:] or through the shower then in the swimming pool then back again... and when I'd finished with it I went straight upstairs to my room and I went to sleep straight away, it was lovely.
[Enid:] I was waiting for him to say he went out and rolled in the snow... because that's the proper end isn't it?
[Patsy:] Mm and you should beat yourself with twigs as well.
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] I'm not... I don't know really about that.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] Oh you should definitely do that, I mean
[Enid:] That borders on the nasty I think. [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] They had a... there was a sort of electric burner in the place as a whole
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Noel:] where they kept on throwing on
[Patsy:] Water to
[Noel:] water with some erm sort of fir smelling in it.
[Patsy:] Oh yes, it made steam.
[Noel:] Mm. Fine mm.
[Enid:] That's it. I should apologize for canned soup, but I spent so long talking to Stanley this morning
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] you know sometimes you can just tell he wants you to talk to him, and erm... so I er couldn't make a proper soup, sorry, but this is
[Patsy:] I think
[Enid:] good actually I think.
[Patsy:] Yes, which is it? Is it Heinz?
[Enid:] Heinz tomato [LAUGHTER] []
[Patsy:] I... I made some stock the other day
[Noel:] Mhm.
[Patsy:] and I put some of it in the freezer
[Enid:] Yes, ideal.
[Patsy:] in erm sort of bowls.
[Enid:] What did you use for your stock?
[Patsy:] Some bones.
[Enid:] And?...
[Patsy:] Oh... some onions and...
[Enid:] Carrot?
[Patsy:] carrot, yes.
[Enid:] Celery? That gives a lovely flavour.
[Patsy:] I don't think I had any celery, I had, I had... put in whatever I had in the house and sort of various herbs and spices and things.
[Noel:] Did you put the bones in the stock before or after the dogs had had them?
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]...
[Patsy:] During?
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] During [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] The dogs went into it instead.
[Enid:] Think what a luscious stock the dogs would make.
[Patsy:] No they wouldn't.
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Patsy:] Erm
[Enid:] All that hair. Yuk.
[Patsy:] erm... no what happened was that he gave me some bones that were far too big for the dogs. So I made stock out of those.
[Enid:] Where they gorgeous marrow bones? That
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] Oh yes, they make wonderful stock don't they?
[Patsy:] Mm. Well normally when he gives marrow bones I ask him to chop them up a bit smaller
[Noel:] Mm.
[Patsy:] but he gave them to me practically
[Noel:] Mm.... He's an obliging chap isn't he?
[Enid:] Mm. I always feel... that when he's giving,, because he gives them to one, doesn't charge for any
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] er anything for the bones, one can hardly say... erm give that another whack across the knuckle because
[Noel:] He wouldn't
[Enid:] the big knuckle has so much locked inside
[Noel:] He wouldn't mind.
[Enid:] it doesn't it?
[Patsy:] I do.
[Enid:] Do you?
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] I should really.
[Noel:] He wouldn't mind.
[Enid:] I ought to have courage.
[Patsy:] He charges high enough prices for his other things.
[Enid:] Yes he, you're right, mhm.
[Patsy:] Erm... when you do your stock... do you first of all... roast the bone?
[Enid:] No but that is erm... er a counsel of perfection or something isn't it? It it's a method anyway.
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] Erm... do you?
[Patsy:] No. Well I didn't because... I just couldn't be bothered to put the oven on to get as hot as that for such short period of time.
[Enid:] What in fact does it do?...
[Patsy:] Oh I should think it erm melts out the marrow and does all sorts of quite good things for it. It probably gives it a good colour too.
[Enid:] It gives it colour... erm I'm sure because of the, of the fact that they're roasted. There's one thing that erm I sometimes do to give it colour, is once I've taken off the outside skin of the onion, the very outside
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] I put the next one in.
[Patsy:] Mm?... Does that, that gives it colour does it?
[Enid:] I read that somewhere, mm....
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] But roasting them, I wouldn't like to get them with any sort of burnt... taste.
[Patsy:] Well I don't think it would give a burnt taste but I think, I think it probably could do quite a lot of good for it.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] Er I just read it in er I was reading Delia.
[Enid:] Mm, yes.... Oh yes she's good.... And she tells you to do that does she?
[Patsy:] Yes....
[Enid:] It's the matter of the moment really, you just fling them into a roasting tin don't you and put it in the oven?... And that's alright if you've got a Rayburn but otherwise you have to start
[Patsy:] Yes, start from scratch.
[Enid:] heating it up, mm.
[Patsy:] Now... when I was away staying with my cousins
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] he is a G P... in High Wycombe... and he's a fundholder.
[Enid:] Oh good, tell me about it.
[Patsy:] Well he's also been on hundreds of committees because they were sort of one of the early ones to be done
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] and they have a battery of sort of board members... drawn from here there and everywhere, including a fair quantity of... redundanted service people.
[Enid:] Oh.
[Patsy:] They had an S A S officer running, running them [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Is that to get you ri to get rid of the patients he didn't want []? [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] No, it was to get rid of the Health Service. He, he, he said that at one point this chap had used the phrase that... well that they were going for controlled destabilization from the Health Service.
[Noel:] Controlled what?
[Patsy:] Destabilization.
[Noel:] Oh.
[Enid:] The S A S man was?
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] Why?...
[Patsy:] That's what the aim of... the people doing it was.
[Enid:] You mean the official government line?
[Patsy:] Mm or that's what they er... or maybe that was his interpretation of it anyway this... was a phrase that came out... in, in the actual meetings. And then he told me a hilarious story about the way in which the chairman of the committee, I'm not sure quite what particular branch in the world he'd come from but... he was looking at the figures, I suppose it was an accountant... looking at the, the figures saying now why is it that the amount spent on district nurses has gone up?... So he was told petrol has gone up.... He said yes but you now have your health centre and the district nurses work from there.... So erm they all looked at him, you know, the district nurses... so John said to this man what... there are some of our patients... who are housebound...
[Enid:] Yes.
[Patsy:] and some of them... as well as being housebound, maybe aren't very well and are bedbound [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER] Mm []
[Patsy:] and the district nurses visit them in their homes. He had to explain it to this man.
[Noel:] Good god.
[Enid:] Where did he fund this committee from one has to ask immediately.
[Patsy:] he's not given his committee... it's wished on him. The local authority the local authority creates the committee.
[Enid:] But I, I had no idea that he then had to be... that, being given his own funding, he then had to be... organized by a committee. Oh that's outrageous.
[Noel:] Local council
[Patsy:] I think it must have been some sort of
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Patsy:] thing like that, I don't know....
[Enid:] Well it doesn't seem sensible, I thought it was the G Ps getting control.... I mean this is what's going to happen... to the detriment of the health service right through
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] administration by people who don't know what it's all about.
[Patsy:] That's right....
[Noel:] what has happened to a lot of these hospitals hasn't it?
[Patsy:] Well it seems to be still going on. What do you make of this idea of building a new hospital at Norwich... with fewer beds? I can't understand it because if they've got fewer beds why don't they, they just hide a few of the beds they've got already?
[Noel:] Absolutely....
[Patsy:] Mm why do they have to have a green field site... and start again?
[Enid:] Is it because they're going to incorporate a lot of high tech... treatments?
[Patsy:] I think so, yes.
[Enid:] Mm and, you see erm... it is a fact that they need fewer hospital beds nowadays because
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] the, the hospital stays are dramatically shorter than they were.
[Patsy:] Mm yes but we're coming up to a time when er the quantity of old people is going to be rather high... than before because we're all healthier.
[Noel:] Mm. Mm....
[Enid:] They'll have something special for them like concentration camps.
[Patsy:] I know. Th they've got those in Ipswich already haven't they? That's what they've made the old Anglesey Road hospital into.
[Enid:] Is that so?
[Patsy:] Mm something like that.
[Enid:] I wonder how it really goes. I wonder...
[Patsy:] I don't know. Erm... well it's
[Enid:] Oh this is disappointing because I thought that with G P who'll... knows what he requires... and what his patients require was going to have... erm a pretty... er erm
[Patsy:] Well you can't leave a G P to spend the money like he likes, you've got to have a committee for it. You think about it.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] You, you know?
[Noel:] Ah!
[Enid:] Ah.
[Patsy:] Yes anyway have you heard about how they do the costing? Will was telling me about it, how how how they
[Enid:] Oh do tell me because I
[Patsy:] how they cost erm... something like a tonsillectomy.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Enid:] And how do they?
[Patsy:] Well apparently they count the procedures that are involved in doing it
[Noel:] Mm?
[Patsy:] erm they have a price per procedure
[Enid:] Yes?
[Patsy:] and they tot it up.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Patsy:] But they haven't got it quantified to such a point where they can actually distinguish a tonsillectomy which might have a lot of procedures but actually takes about half a minute... with er other things that are, you know, much much more complicated and the cost of tonsillectomies is unreasonably high... compared with erm, you know, with Yes.
[Enid:] Really?
[Patsy:] Mm. They haven't, they haven't got the pricing right. And... I can understand them not having the pricing right, I don't think they've spent long enough... working out what the prices of things are.
[Enid:] They've dearly gone on for years not knowing, let alone tonsillectomies, what
[Patsy:] Yes, they didn't
[Enid:] these wretched erm
[Patsy:] they didn't know
[Enid:] transplants costs.
[Patsy:] they didn't know what they cost... but equally being asked to budget... against not knowing what things cost
[Noel:] Mm mm
[Patsy:] is er equally stupid.
[Enid:] Yes it is. Because er er ya... absol
[Patsy:] But then, but then the er the whole thing gets knocked for six anyway because of general... unpredictableness of, of, of illness.
[Enid:] Well it does I suppose. It does.
[Patsy:] You can you can apply statistics to it a bit but it's very unlikely the statis st statistics... and what really happens... will always add up in fact.... They, they've suddenly had a few outbreaks of polio haven't they?
[Enid:] Oh have they?
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] I didn't hear that. I say.
[Patsy:] Mhm.... Yep. They've had the odd child who hasn't been erm whatnotted... and some various
[Enid:] Ah!
[Patsy:] various men seem to have caught it from changing their nappies.
[Enid:] Yes! I did hear of that. I'm sorry I wasn't relating it to erm... to polio.
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] Erm...
[Patsy:] Well you know, you've only got to get maybe smallpox back again and that will knock all their predictions for six.
[Enid:] Erm
[Patsy:] They say they've wiped smallpox off the face of the earth.
[Enid:] Yes they do you see. That's the doubtful one isn't it, because it's gone. It's supposed to be completely gone.
[Patsy:] Yeah but do they, do they inoculate children against it at all?
[Enid:] No I don't think... no I don't think we have smallpox inoculation er of, of children do we?
[Patsy:] Don't know we I mean we used to
[Enid:] Because they say it's... it's, it's... gone completely. Erm... sorry love we need a fork for that. Perhaps the meat fork from the shop would do nicely. No er er... erm... it's all in the cutting, of course it is very... no that's pork and Noel daren't touch it so I've got two slices so that you and I could have one.
[Patsy:] That's very nice, thank you.
[Enid:] And Noel will have the other. Erm
[Patsy:] I haven't had any pork for ages....
[Enid:] it's so new to them that they're bothering to cost it, but how did we go on in the older days? I'm trying to think. Did we know anything about what our operations were costing? I can't remember.
[Patsy:] Well if y you if if you go to a BUPA hospital you go pa you pay... a sort of erm, you know, related type of
[Enid:] Yes a figure that's been around that anyway, yes.
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] Ya....
[Patsy:] But I don't know
[Enid:] [whispering] I'm just having that to start with I think [].
[Patsy:] erm... I do I don't, I mean I don't know how accurate it is or whether it's sort of, you know, a set of figures they decided to put on.
[Enid:] It wouldn't relate to what it costs
[Patsy:] to keep to keep to keep their profits going.
[Enid:] Yes, that's right.
[Patsy:] Well it probably does relate
[Enid:] That's what it... that'll be it.
[Patsy:] it probably does relate pretty well.
[Enid:] I bet it doesn't relate to an actual operation in a... general hospital because you've got so many people wanting their rake off in a private one surely? I mean haven't you?
[Patsy:] Yes. Yes.
[Enid:] That erm
[Patsy:] Yes their profit
[Enid:] Ya that's right.
[Noel:] rather tired... bit fed up with private medicine at the moment....
[Enid:] Oh because of Richard? I'm convinced that
[Noel:] Richard
[Enid:] you know Richard... er er?
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] Had he gone to a... National Health hospital
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] with the request to have that back thing done for him
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Enid:] I'm convinced that at the age of seventy eight people do they would have said don't bother.
[Patsy:] Yes I'm sure they would have done.
[Enid:] Ya. And er would have erm... perceived that he wasn't greatly hampered by it, but once you've got a surgeon who is going to get a fat fee... he did say to him are you sure you want this done
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] but Richard was sure he wanted it done... and nothing came between him and that... intention. And you see he's, it's going to finish him. He's not going to get better.
[Patsy:] No. Erm... but... did he tol tell you that... the surgeon asked him if he really wanted it done?
[Enid:] Oh yes it's known that he did.
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] He said er you're sure... because it was quite a thought, for a man his age.
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] But I think a surgeon in a National Health would have said... look here I do not recommend this.
[Patsy:] Yeah but then the first thing he would have done would have been... got up and gone off and got it done privately....
[Enid:] That is the danger.... He would. So er the end was I suppose always connectable.
[Patsy:] Ya.... If that's, if that's what private will do for you
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Mm....
[Patsy:] I mean, I think, I hadn't realized that they would make different decisions on medical grounds....
[Enid:] Mm... they will, it's more permissive if you're in the private sector.... I'm sure of that.... It doesn't come so hea heavily loaded with advice against things....
[Patsy:] What, because it's all too good for the moneybags?
[Enid:] Yes it's, it's I suppose human nature to want to pursue your craft... wherever you can.
[Patsy:] Mm....
[Enid:] But erm... but it's been a very bad thing for him....
[Patsy:] Yes....
[Enid:] But you see... they've had computers in hospitals now for... years
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] and are, are employing and paying people to work them... but they don't ever seem to come to any... let's say reportable... conclusion about the cost of operations. I think if we knew what those heart and lung transplants cost, people would be up in arms that the National Health Service is being expected to fund that.
[Patsy:] Mm.... Well y... they're a little bit like... nuclear electricity in terms of erm... the expensive end aren't they?
[Noel:] Mm. Mm....
[Enid:] Yes I suppose that's so.... I wish the government could really... tellingly... er do down these dreadful lies and scandal erm... scaremongering things that the... Labour opposition is putting forward. I mean they don't honestly care two hoots about people, if they can talk about the dreadful state the, the care of old people is in and... all the rest of it and that it's going to get worse, frightening old people. That's not caring for the community at all.... That's just erm... politicking isn't it?
[Patsy:] Yes. I can think of nothing worse than Kinnock coming into power.
[Enid:] Oh!... Imagine... how people like erm... erm... Helmut Kohl and
[Noel:] Cook?
[Enid:] Not Cook
[Noel:] Oh.
[Enid:] because he's in his own party, I mean Cook yes well he's a snidey little thing, I'm talking about the erm ambassadors and the politicians, the ministers who would be
[Noel:] Oh yes, oh lord yes.
[Enid:] you know, opposing him.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Enid:] They'd just, they'd just run over him... absolutely, whilst he was grinning.... One can't see him in an ambassadorial role at all can one?
[Patsy:] No....
[Enid:] It may not come to it....
[Patsy:] But this recession is quite a problem.
[Enid:] Oh it must be....
[Noel:] It's a worldwide thing though.
[Patsy:] Mm.... Yes but the trouble about it is that the English are so insular... that lots of them don't, don't realize it or won't believe it.
[Noel:] No.
[Enid:] That's true. They, they regard that as an excuse.
[Patsy:] Mm....
[Enid:] Have some more chutney, it was given to us by our German daughter-in-law.
[Patsy:] Oh
[Enid:] So it will be perfect.
[Patsy:] Did she make it herself?
[Enid:] She did.
[Patsy:] Goodness....
[Enid:] It was our Christmas present wasn't it?
[Noel:] I forget what it was, was it her present?
[Enid:] Mm....... Well has it been nice not having to go to France?
[Patsy:] Mm.... Except of having to go to London instead.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Mm I couldn't tell how many people would agree with you about that one... that London could be at least a bit preferable to Paris....
[Patsy:] Well... Helen's a bit like you... she, she sort of perks up when she starts to smell the petrol fumes
[Noel:] Mm! [LAUGHTER] Ya.
[Patsy:] And she said she had a lovely time. She went to an exhibition, she... went for a browsing sort of shop. She said the shops were empty.
[Enid:] Mm.... Shopping is much more comfortable now.
[Patsy:] Mm. I'd better go and try and do some some time.
[Enid:] Mm.... There's a lovely suit in... at the moment in the sale in... what's that place called?
[Patsy:] ?
[Enid:] Near...
[Noel:] Mhm.
[Enid:] ... it's really lovely. Smart, one could go to town or anywhere in it.
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Noel:] Why is it you don't buy it then?
[Enid:] Well because it's darkish in colour... and I'd rather promised myself that if I have anything new now... it'll be of a brighter colour.
[Noel:] Oh well go and buy the thing before somebody else does, go up this afternoon.
[Enid:] Dearest I'm saying it's a dark colour.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Patsy:] Yeah but you could wear it with, you could wear bright things with it.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Shush, don't push me, I don't need pushing. No no really... I, I, I've resolved, it's charcoal grey you see
[Patsy:] It sounds very smart Enid.
[Enid:] Very smart.
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] We're going to have Princess Diana.
[Enid:] My size too.
[Patsy:] Is it?
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] It's got your name written on it.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Why don't you go up and buy the thing?
[Enid:] No.... I'll phone her and ask her if she's got it in red. [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] You can pinch a bit more of my er
[Patsy:] Like the telephone woman.
[Enid:] Mm?
[Patsy:] Like the telephone woman.
[Enid:] Oh er isn't she oh isn't she super?
[Patsy:] I don't like the advertisements they're doing for the telephone now though.
[Enid:] Which are they?...
[Patsy:] Oh they have this silly man who... picks up the telephone in a... he's er got a chef's hat on and he says Giovanni's... and then it was, it turns out to be one of his old friends so he lapses into sort of Glaswegian.
[Enid:] Oh no!
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] I haven't heard that one.... Oh but Maureen erm... er what's she called? Maureen Lipman, yes
[Noel:] Lipman, Lipman.
[Enid:] is very good on those isn't she?
[Patsy:] Mm....
[Enid:] She's the right sort. Erm... the thing that I... feel I couldn't go to see her in... is erm Hello Joyce.
[Patsy:] Yes, that Joyce Grenfell thing?
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] A bit of it was on the television.
[Enid:] Yes, I saw that bit and it wasn't good
[Patsy:] No.
[Enid:] because sh Joyce Grenfell was such a lady, it came through. And... and wh and er... Maureen Lipman is much more earthy
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] and that came through and it was no good. If you've seen Joyce Grenfell you, you couldn't
[Noel:] Funny thing to put
[Patsy:] No.
[Noel:] a Jewess to... to try to represent Joyce Grenfell anyhow isn't it?
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes in a way, except she... well you could do, it could be done. Did you feel that about her on television?
[Patsy:] Well I felt, I just didn't know what it was but it lacked the sort of charm that it had before.
[Enid:] Mm.... Completely. Almost thought when she, when it was... when it was erm... er mentioned in the first place that she was going to do it
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Enid:] I almost thought ooh... you know I'd love to write and say oh don't, don't. [LAUGHTER] Joyce Grenfell was such a lady. You couldn't say that to her cos she didn't... it would be insulting but... in fact, that's the big difference.
[Patsy:] Mm.... Talking of things like this, you know... er some people have postcards with their name on... in black, across the top
[Enid:] Oh yes they do. Yes that's right, they do.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Patsy:] Well... er all sorts of funny people like have them like erm... Iris has, has them.
[Enid:] Oh does she?
[Noel:] And does Jane.
[Patsy:] Yes. Yes she has them
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] my aunt has them, my father used to have them.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] and... so I've always associated them with sort of erm, you know, what people had before all those sticky labels came
[Enid:] Mm yes. People who did things properly?
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Patsy:] Well... when I was in the London office one chap who is an... east end Jew made good, his name is Ralph, erm suddenly gasped and said gosh isn't this wonderful? So I sort of was called to look at it, and I said oh yes, all the people I know who have got those are over seventy.
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]...
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] And was it one of his own?
[Patsy:] No no, someone had sent it to him.
[Enid:] Somebody had sent to him.
[Patsy:] And he, he thought that it was... such a touch of class about it.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER] And I expect he's gone away to get them printed now []
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Oh probably.
[Patsy:] because I s I said, I said
[Enid:] How funny [].
[Patsy:] I said well they're just what people had before... the sticky labels.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Patsy:] And he dragged out his sticky labels... which, which had got blue stripes on them
[Enid:] No?
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER] Yes, I thought [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] No []
[Patsy:] that wasn't terribly elegant [] but anyway his blue labels had got, these little sticky labels had got blue stripes on them
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] top and bottom.
[Enid:] Oh how funny.
[Patsy:] Erm... and so I guess he's gone away to get some made.
[Enid:] Mm [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] And I said... and of course to do it really properly, you also have envelopes so that if you want to you can stick, stick the card in an envelope that will
[Noel:] Yes.
[Patsy:] fit it. Cos that's what we used to have.
[Enid:] Mm. Oh yes it wouldn't go naked through the post would it?
[Patsy:] Well you can yes you can't
[Enid:] Mm
[Patsy:] you know, you could use it for quick notes
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] to drop on people's doorsteps
[Enid:] Yes.
[Patsy:] or, or
[Enid:] Which is useful.
[Patsy:] Yes. Or if you just want to sort of signify a, a quick thank you to someone.
[Enid:] Mm yes.
[Patsy:] Or a quick come
[Enid:] Yes I hadn't thought about that.
[Noel:] Mm mm
[Patsy:] they're they are very useful, I've often thought of having some made
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] because, in fact every time I get one from someone else I always think why haven't I gone and got some of those yet?
[Enid:] I know why, because you're not seventy. [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] That's right, give me another twenty years.
[Noel:] We had those envelopes er and the cards for our concerts.
[Enid:] Well they were probably erm... invitation to a concert.
[Noel:] Yeah but they were all fixed up to go into the same envelope sort of thing.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] Yes
[Enid:] Oh yes you can't, can't use them though.
[Noel:] No.
[Enid:] Got too much detail of where we lived and erm you know... that it was a concert.
[Patsy:] But but these... you know, you had your telephone number and you know, just had a whole statement of everything about you.
[Enid:] Mm mm.
[Patsy:] And...
[Enid:] And all you needed was the brief message that you had to send.
[Patsy:] Yes. And it saved you hav it saved you having to do the preliminary thing of saying dear whoever you are
[Enid:] Of course, that's right. That's right.
[Patsy:] which was sometimes quite a difficult thing to do.
[Enid:] Well on a personal card you're not supposed to put dear anybody are you so
[Patsy:] I know but
[Enid:] that does make it difficult.
[Patsy:] No it made it very easy. You know, especially when perhaps you were having a mixed sort of meeting
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] wh I remember that when I was... at home it was a mixed sort of meeting in which some of the people from the village were coming who you didn't really know but... they had to be asked
[Enid:] Mm. Mm. Yes.
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER] well you I mean you, you could cover er cover the whole thing couldn't you?
[Noel:] Mm mm.
[Enid:] Without saying dear so and so.
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Patsy:] And without really having to sign it. You could just put your initial in the corner.
[Enid:] Of course.
[Noel:] Mm that's right it
[Enid:] Are they called gentle
[Noel:] Yes
[Enid:] cards? [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER] Something like that, yes []. [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] safe distance cards. [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] I must go and get some made.
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] indeed.
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]...
[Enid:] Oh gosh. Have you used any of these erm things called Post It?...
[Patsy:] Oh yes they, they use them a lot at work.
[Enid:] Th but they're useful?
[Noel:] What are they?
[Enid:] Well er they're er like your autumn leaves that you used to leave on everybody's benches
[Noel:] Oh did I?
[Enid:] erm but they've got a sticky bit on them
[Noel:] Oh I know, yes.
[Enid:] and so you, you'd have stuck it on the bench you see erm... and it comes off anything without making a mark on
[Noel:] Oh yes we've got a little pack of them in London I think on the, by the telephone.
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] That's right, some teeny weeny ones?
[Noel:] Yes.
[Enid:] Mm Folly gave them to you?
[Noel:] They they... they used to call them my autumn leaves er
[Enid:] erm Patsy and more
[Noel:] Oh have some more
[Enid:] an another piece of ham, do
[Noel:] have some more ham or you're getting some nice cheese in a minute.
[Enid:] Oh cheese.
[Patsy:] are we having some cheese?
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] Well I think I'll wait for some cheese
[Noel:] Mm. Ye yes I used to leave notes
[Patsy:] I'm I'm tr I'm tr I'm trying not to overeat you see?
[Noel:] Yes.
[Enid:] Right. Please yourself.
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] I'm trying to avoid... being noticed if I overeat.
[Enid:] You're trying to, you're trying to avoid being starved all the time aren't you darling?
[Patsy:] You're allowed to have some water aren't you?
[Noel:] No no no no no
[Enid:] It's difficult for you but he's trying to avoid being starved. Will that plate do?
[Patsy:] It'll be fine.
[Enid:] dish you out a larger one.
[Patsy:] No no it will be absolutely fine, thank you.
[Enid:] Okay. Well help yourself, I can recommend cheese.
[Noel:] Well autumn leave is the best way out of, of... of er communicating. If I were to turn to a man on a bench
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] and say to him so and so and so and so he'd always answer back and say I want to do it this way
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Noel:] and er the time was wasted, but you give an autumn leaf... a little note saying what it, what you, what you wanted done there wasn't much chance he could argue.
[Patsy:] Yes I heard a very interesting conversation on the way down here in that programme Just a Minute...
[Enid:] Oh
[Patsy:] you know the one I mean?
[Enid:] I hate it but I'll tell you why in a minute.
[Patsy:] Mm mm.
[Enid:] Go on.
[Patsy:] Well I don't like it very much but... it has this very interesting discussion as to whether a fax was... cheaper or more expensive than the telephone
[Noel:] Mm?
[Patsy:] and... the biggest pro for a fax that I can think of is that you can send the message... and that's that, there's no risk of it dribbling on into, into doubt
[Noel:] Mm
[Enid:] As it would on the telephone, yes.
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] How right. Mm.
[Patsy:] So I thought that was quite interesting to think
[Noel:] Mm and they can't argue with a fax.
[Patsy:] think about....
[Enid:] I hate that programme because... I like... I tend to come and... listen to the content of what they're saying
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] and they're only saying it for the sake of keeping going.
[Patsy:] Yes
[Enid:] And then er so it's never, it's never worth... serious attention is it?
[Patsy:] Well just occasionally it is. Sometimes you do get something interesting. And and and and then and then they get interrupted and you wish, you know, you wish they hadn't.
[Enid:] That's it, you see that's full of frustration
[Patsy:] Yes it's
[Enid:] for me
[Patsy:] I don't like it, I, I prefer things like the news quiz
[Noel:] Mm.
[Patsy:] or... even... that one about that game with Mornington Crescent in it.
[Enid:] Mornington Crescent?
[Patsy:] Yes....
[Enid:] I've heard that phrase used but I don't know what it's for.
[Patsy:] Oh well it's, it's where... they say... say a sequence of underground station names or or locations
[Enid:] Oh
[Patsy:] in London... in, in a sort of clever way that makes it sound as though there's some terrific good reasoning for it
[Enid:] Oh.
[Patsy:] and they just say it totally randomly and the last one just... the first pers person who says Mornington Crescent is the winner... but they've made a great big sort of... fiction as to how... why, when it is suitable to say Mornington Crescent
[Enid:] You have to come to it
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] I, yes I see.
[Patsy:] Th there's no logic to it at all but they play it on.
[Enid:] How extraordinary, I've not heard that one. Mhm.
[Patsy:] It's a programme where they also... sing the songs of one tune... wh to another tune....
[Enid:] Oh... you mean the programme where they do that?
[Patsy:] Mm....
[Enid:] Erm well that's not... that's not My Music is it?
[Patsy:] No.
[Enid:] No. Erm
[Patsy:] That's erm
[Enid:] can't remember what it's called....
[Patsy:] Mm... it's Jazz With Humphrey Littleton....
[Enid:] Oh.... I, I'm, I'm not with you on that one because erm I'm sure I'm... vaguely at the back of my mind I think I know what it is, I have heard of it I mean
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] or heard it
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] but I can't bring it to mind, it won't come to the front... as it were.
[Patsy:] Well I can't remember what it's called....
[Enid:] Erm... yes apart from My Music I can't think of one. I heard a very amusing thing on the radio this morning
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] came in half way through it, at least half way erm but it was so obviously the voice of erm... Freud, Clement Freud
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] talking... and he was telling about a visit he had paid to China for a whole week
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] and how he'd seen... prison and er they'd said they hadn't any prisons but he found one and... erm... hospitals and all that sort of thing... and at the end of the week's visit erm one of the very high ups, whom he named and I've forgotten the name of him, I think I'll just use that, thank you... erm sent for h he, he was brought before him as it were and the man said to him are there any questions er at the end of your week that you want to ask... and he said... well perhaps there is one... he said erm Winston Churchill was here erm a month or two, a few months ago
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] and he also, he like me stayed in the... and he named the hotel in
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] Peking... he said can you tell me why... his room was larger than mine
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] and his room had three windows erm... and I, mine only had two
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] he said in spite of the fact that I've been in parliament for longer than he has, which surprised me cos I wouldn't have thought so... this is the young Winston Churchill of course so the Chinese man said to him erm oh well the reason for that was that he had a famous grandfather
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] and so [LAUGHTER] Clement Freud [] said, not to him but now on this programme this morning, that's the first time I've ever been de-grandfathered [LAUGHTER]
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] That was rather nice wasn't it?
[Patsy:] Presumably his grandfather was Sigmund Freud was it?
[Enid:] Yes.
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] The Chinese didn't know.
[Patsy:] No I shouldn't think the Chinese have got much time for that sort of approach to life.
[Enid:] I don't think they have either. I don't think they'd have been impressed even if he'd told them [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] No. Erm... did you see that th they're, they're going to look for some sort of gene called the Churchill factor?
[Enid:] No.
[Patsy:] Well they want to find out why it is that someone who smoked so much and drank [LAUGHTER] so much []
[Enid:] Mm!
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] had to live so long.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Patsy:] Well it's obvious. It's the same sort of factor that allows anybody who smokes a lot to not get cancer and not get bronchitis and live, also live a long time. There are plenty of them.
[Enid:] Well that's true.
[Patsy:] I it's just a question of, you know, something in your make-up that is inoculating you and other people have a weakness.
[Enid:] Well that's right. Other people go down with it. You can't really I should think find a gene surely that's
[Patsy:] There must be something though Enid.
[Enid:] Mm there must be.
[Noel:] His father was a very weak man wasn't he?
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Noel:] His mother was a character but...
[Enid:] She was not nice.
[Noel:] Not nice but she had a strong character.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] But his
[Enid:] This reminds me
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] might I just say this darling cos I've just remembered, I'll forget... senile you see?... Erm... we have a video of the last programme of the Churchill series
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] erm which a friend in London very kindly made for us because we were out with her, her mother
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] and couldn't see it
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] and erm... Joan's video has gone wrong in some way
[Patsy:] Really?
[Enid:] Yes, she doesn't know how to work it to begin with but she
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] was working
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] she was working [] on that, of course we don't know a thing about it, erm... and the make, the erm... the handyman chap came along and took a part away, it was faulty
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] so we can't see it.
[Patsy:] Do you want to come and see it on mine?
[Enid:] I was going, I'm getting round to that you see aren't I?
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Enid:] Erm... we feel rather badly about not returning it to this person who made it for us
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] because it's now a fortnight since we had it I think
[Noel:] Mm.
[Patsy:] Well come and see it on mine.
[Enid:] May we do that?
[Patsy:] Mm, sure.
[Enid:] But when, that's not going to disturb you?...
[Patsy:] Don't know. Erm... let's think....
[Enid:] Tomorrow morning? No....
[Noel:] I'm taking, I'm going to London tomorrow afternoon, I
[Enid:] Afternoon.
[Noel:] I, no I've only just thought of it, I'd take it with me if, if we'd seen it.
[Enid:] Mm....
[Patsy:] I've got to go out this evening.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Enid:] Well tomorrow, what happens to you tomorrow? Is it your lazy day when you
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Noel:] Mm well we won't see it tom we'll keep it another week... keep it another week... I'll get my diary.
[Enid:] ...
[Noel:] I'll get my diary, can't talk without a diary.
[Enid:] Okay.... We can't do it next Saturday... because erm we've got two people, a Scotsman married to a Chinese
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] coming to spend Saturday.
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] So that's a dead day for next week. And... might be able to do it before the weekend perhaps
[Patsy:] Yeah think so, I'm just... when does Noel get back from London?...
[Enid:] Erm hoping Monday evening.... He's going to see Mr. He has a little bit of a scratchiness in one of his eyes
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] erm and... phoned up and sort of semi made an appointment, not exactly
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Enid:] erm because Mr was abroad... and the girl said well I mean... come in on Monday, when he'll be back
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] and he may be able to see you then.
[Patsy:] Yeah.
[Enid:] So... come Monday morning, Sunday night in fact, Noel said gosh I can this is, this seems to have gone light. We've got some ointment from the doctor which didn't work last time he put it out
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] and seems to have worked this time. So he said I can't go along and bother a busy man when it's feeling much better.
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] So erm... he didn't go
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] but he got a phone call on the... Tuesday from Mr 's secretary to say oh Mr would like to see you anyway because er he feels it may have... erm... it was a letter, I'm sorry, which came
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] in case it has any bearing on... any difficulty you might have in the future so... he's to go down
[Patsy:] So he's got an appointment?
[Enid:] Mm... Monday morning.... And then he's going to call at Sotherby's. Do you know... Sotherby's are the most dilettante people you've ever come across, they really are.
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] With the exception of the one... erm... section leader that he deals with normally. At the beginning of this week a girl phoned up and said that erm... the chap he normally deals with is away
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] but there's an organ is Sussex they want him to look at... and erm so he said well... send me a photograph er they've got a photograph of it you see
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] send the photograph and that gives me an idea whether it's worth going to look at it at all.... That I think was about Tuesday.
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Enid:] It never came. This is what they do, they phone up... asking
[Patsy:] They could have they could have even faxed it.
[Enid:] Mm... well we haven't got a fax.
[Patsy:] Oh no.
[Enid:] But... the thing is, what they do tend to do is, they suddenly find themselves in a panic because they've behaved like this about it and the person at the other end is shouting when are you coming to see this organ
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] I was talking about how dilatory S er Sotherby's are.
[Noel:] Oh. Yes but I know the thing dear no
[Patsy:] Well of course they're not, they're not in a businesslike business are they?
[Enid:] No... not really, no.... And I wonder if it seems to be that they prefer you come out of the upper drawer than come up with your brilliant A levels or whatever.
[Patsy:] They do, yes.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] Exactly that.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] They are erm... a very, you know one, one of the last bastions where those sort of people can find a refuge.
[Enid:] Yes. I suppose so.
[Noel:] I find them
[Patsy:] You know,l like, like the Duke of Kent's daughter.
[Enid:] Mm. Does she work there?
[Patsy:] She works in art galleries or, or some art gallery
[Enid:] Or some art gallery.
[Patsy:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Patsy:] And the man she's marrying... is an art gallery.
[Enid:] So he is. That's right. So he is.
[Patsy:] there has to be space for these people... though somehow I always feel that they cream it all the same.
[Enid:] Mm I think they do cream it, yes.
[Patsy:] ...
[Enid:] Oh that's
[Patsy:] Well du during next week is what we think Noel.
[Noel:] Pardon?
[Patsy:] During next week erm I'm just trying to think, I've got very heavy days on Monday and Tuesday... so Wednesday's a possibility... then in that case.
[Noel:] Er let's... shall, can we leave it open?
[Patsy:] Mhm, certainly.
[Enid:] And then we'll arrange it with you, mm?
[Noel:] Yes. Erm I don't know whether I think post rather erm er I see I'm not going to London after... erm after this week...
[Patsy:] Ooh.
[Noel:] Oh you're going to be making some of your special coffee are you love?
[Enid:] I am indeed.
[Patsy:] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Ooh er...
[Noel:] How's your barn proceeding?
[Patsy:] Don't know, it doesn't seem to be doing anything and what the was that during the week when was in residence... one night the dogs barked and he went out to see what was happening and there was a young man who worked in it... this was in the pitch dark, was up there taking some of his stuff away.
[Noel:] Oh.
[Enid:] Oh.
[Patsy:] So I wonder.
[Noel:] Has he run out of cash?
[Patsy:] Well, I wouldn't be surprised.
[Enid:] Why would he need to do it in the dark?
[Patsy:] Well if for instance it's approaching receivership...
[Enid:] Oh oh oh
[Patsy:] you'd want to sort of, you know
[Noel:] Mm.
[Enid:] Oh yes.
[Patsy:] get your stuff and you'd want it not to be obvious that you'd got your stuff.
[Enid:] Oh I see, yes.
[Patsy:] But that's, that's only a guess though I don't know.
[Noel:] you mean the young man who actually owns it or the man who's employed working on it?
[Patsy:] Well... I don't know who exactly owns it
[Noel:] Yes.
[Patsy:] but the man who has been doing the work there who said he owned it
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] Oh I know, oh. But the, the... lady who was erm... what's her name daughter, she used to live in the... erm... erm live in the terraced house... erm...
[Patsy:] What Jo?
[Noel:] Mrs what?
[Patsy:] you mean?
[Noel:] No er the people before them.
[Patsy:] The?
[Noel:] What?
[Patsy:] The?
[Noel:] yes, Ann 's daughter
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Noel:] who's got the farm up at
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Noel:] and there's a... there's a farm for sale opposite there, you never saw such a wreck in all your life.
[Enid:] Oh it is a wreck.
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes it really is.
[Patsy:] Yes.
[Enid:] I think the vogue is dying isn't it?
[Patsy:] Yes. Erm... they're being much stricter about what you can do to them.
[Enid:] Erm....
[Noel:] And how you do it perhaps.
[Patsy:] And how you do it and everything, yes. I think that erm... across the road from me he's just mucked around.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Patsy:] He hasn't done things in the sort of, you know, the preferred way.
[Enid:] That was the sign from the beginning wasn't it?
[Patsy:] Yes. And he hasn't had... building inspections at the right sorts of times.
[Enid:] Ah....
[Patsy:] So I think he's going to find himself in a lot of trouble.
[Noel:] That's good.
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Enid:] Well he didn't, he did deserve it didn't he, really?
[Patsy:] Yep....
[Enid:] But he paid dearly for it in the first place didn't he?
[Patsy:] I think it's such a shame that he's gone and put that wretched wirenetting fence so close to the road
[Enid:] I agree.
[Patsy:] across the road from me.
[Noel:] That what?
[Patsy:] Wirenetting fence across the road.
[Noel:] Yes... it is wretched.
[Patsy:] Cos it's so close to the road, it doesn't give me any swinging round room
[Enid:] Well actually if he's
[Patsy:] on my side of the road.
[Enid:] If he's having problems
[Patsy:] Mm?
[Enid:] you may be able to get that rectified mayn't you?
[Patsy:] Ya.
[Enid:] And say yes
[Noel:] Better arrange for the coal lorr lorry to back in to it one day.
[Patsy:] Ya I was I've been thinking of trying to have a big delivery of something. [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] I mean I would do you er have?
[Patsy:] I don't have any coal delivered unfortunately.
[Noel:] Oh.
[Patsy:] I've go I've got some coal in the coal shed and it, you know,i it sort of lasts me.
[Noel:] Oh.
[Patsy:] I never seem to run out.
[Noel:] Because if you had old er... what's his name?...
[Enid:] Don.
[Noel:] Don, 's man... er if you explained the bother
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] er he would back his... with a little encouragement from me he'd back his lorry right into it and flatten it for you.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Darling he's a very [] nice man.
[Noel:] I know he is, that's why he'd do it.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Patsy:] Well unfortunately if, if I did have a delivery of coal it would come in through the other entrance.
[Noel:] Oh [LAUGHTER] that needn't prevent you from... backing in er backing into it when he turns round....
[Patsy:] No it's been, it's been a tough week this last week.
[Noel:] Oh dear.... I'm sorry.... I feel very sorry for people who have to work for their living now, I really do.
[Patsy:] Mm. Yes....
[Noel:] Oh we've got something else have we? I thought
[Enid:] Yes we've got a little bit of Israel haven't you?
[Noel:] A bit of Israel?
[Enid:] Yes....
[Noel:] We had a... box of oranges sent to us from Israel
[Patsy:] Oh I see
[Noel:] direct to me
[Patsy:] Mm.
[Noel:] friends of ours there. Actually it's George 's son.
[Patsy:] Mhm.
[Noel:] My wife's
[Enid:] Hello Ian, oh I was hoping that you'd come and see us.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] That's wonderful.
[Ian:] to see you.
[Enid:] I'm just getting, will you tea?
[Ian:] Yes, I'd love one. Thank you.
[Enid:] Right I'll just get that.
[Noel:] Well how are things going?
[Ian:] Yes business okay Mm... no [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] No? Oh dear dear dear
[Ian:] not at all, no.
[Noel:] Is old alright?
[Ian:] Just about yes... yes.
[Noel:] That must be worrying, a lot of people feel like that don't they?
[Ian:] Yes. No it's, it's been a very bad eighteen months er
[Noel:] Oh dear.
[Ian:] cos the, the business that I was
[Noel:] What?
[Ian:] the business I was a director of
[Noel:] Yes?
[Ian:] er last year... went into receivership
[Noel:] Oh lord.
[Ian:] in January
[Noel:] Ooh. Now does that have a er I, I know you lose the income but... does it, does it penalize you at all?
[Ian:] Yes it does.
[Noel:] Oh dear.
[Ian:] Yes. Yeah we've had er... the D T I investigating
[Noel:] Oh lord.
[Ian:] cos it was quite a big company.
[Noel:] Oh.
[Ian:] But erm... it just er hopefully because yeah but really they're just trying to investigate to make sure that we didn't act fraudulently in any way.
[Noel:] Oh yes. Oh good. I mean I don't suppose
[Ian:] Which, which we didn't. You know it was the it was the downturn that erm
[Noel:] Yes, ooh
[Ian:] you know that started nineteen... nineteen ninety one.
[Noel:] What was the business what er did you do?
[Ian:] In, in advertising.
[Noel:] Advertising oh yes.
[Ian:] An advertising agency.
[Noel:] Oh.
[Ian:] Yeah. But about... a third of the top agencies in our sector all went bust in
[Noel:] Good god.
[Ian:] in the last eighteen months.
[Noel:] Cos living up here privately in retirement one doesn't realize these things.
[Ian:] I mean er unemployment in er... white collar management... area is, is, is very marked now.
[Noel:] Is it?
[Ian:] Yeah it's... yes. Yes it's really affect affected our, our businesses. There's so many areas that have contracted so much.
[Noel:] Yes and i it's a, it's long erm
[Ian:] It is, yes.
[Noel:] process
[Ian:] Yes. Affects everything. But, you know, things are going okay.
[Noel:] But you, you managing just, just to hold on
[Ian:] Just about yes. Yeah.
[Noel:] Cos as you know Ben's in Hong Kong
[Ian:] Yes? yes.
[Noel:] He's suddenly swapping from the police to er security in... a big bank.
[Ian:] Oh fascinating. Oh.
[Noel:] Erm I, I suppose it'll be a couple of years before he does that but
[Ian:] Well, yes.
[Noel:] yes.
[Ian:] Cos he signed up for five, five years didn't he?
[Noel:] He signed up for three years with an option
[Ian:] Mm
[Noel:] to do another two.
[Ian:] Oh I see, yes.
[Noel:] And I think he's going to work out the other two and then go on to this... forget the name of it at the moment, this bank
[Ian:] Mm.
[Noel:] and er but he doesn't want to come back to England.
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER]... No I was sorry I missed him when he came over last year.
[Noel:] Last year, yes.
[Ian:] I just had a quick phonecall with him.
[Noel:] Oh he did speak to you?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Noel:] Yes that's right mm
[Ian:] Yes.
[Noel:] Yes see that time went like lightning.
[Ian:] Yes.... Such a shame.
[Noel:] Edmund is still in his job. Aha. He still hasn't got naturalization but he seems to be fairly... erm fairly secure. He's a journalist of course.
[Ian:] Yes. Is he confident that he'll get the naturalization?
[Noel:] Oh yes, eventually he will.
[Ian:] Right.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ian:] W will that be this year or does it take much longer?
[Noel:] You can never tell
[Ian:] Really?
[Noel:] never tell, a... girl we know went over at the same time as he did... got it this year.
[Ian:] Really?
[Noel:] But er it's just the luck of the draw, it all depends upon the temper of the particular official that's handling it I think.
[Ian:] Yes....
[Noel:] I'll give you a... funny article he wrote before you go.
[Ian:] Oh I'd like to see that....
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER] But er... I'm just trying to think now er... Ben er the trouble with it is, Edmund can't leave the country... whilst he's in a job... until he gets naturalization because he's got to get a work permit and an entry permit and everything all the way through
[Ian:] Right.
[Noel:] and... again er with the present state of unemployment in America it's unlikely he would get it.
[Ian:] It's very difficult. Yes.
[Noel:] But he, he managed to... get his extension to his permit because he had these English connections and the paper he was on... reckoned that he was very valuable to them and so they
[Ian:] Good.
[Noel:] they held him.
[Ian:] Good.... Well I'm sure he's
[Noel:] Are your wife and family well?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Noel:] They're happy with you are they?
[Ian:] Yes they are, yes. I wouldn't er... bestow them er on you even for a short visit though.
[Noel:] Oh don't be silly.
[Ian:] The er the s the small one is er
[Noel:] Oh you've got two have you?
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER] Yes [] he's a real handful.
[Noel:] Is he? Oh dear dear
[Ian:] Yes.
[Noel:] dear dear.
[Ian:] Yeah he's er he's nearly two and it's a... er they're trying times.
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER] I've had it five times.
[Ian:] Yes. We're expecting another one in June.
[Noel:] Are you really? You
[Ian:] That'll be that'll be the third.
[Noel:] But I had five. Every
[Ian:] Yes.
[Noel:] one I said was the last but it.
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER] Oh I see certainly feel that er we must be mad.
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] We must be mad....
[Noel:] And you're living in Chiswick?
[Ian:] Yes, yes. Although we'll have to sell that house.
[Noel:] Would you? What because of the financial position?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Noel:] Oh dear oh dear
[Ian:] So er we'll have to wait... we're, we're... er we've put an offer in, in on a house in Weybridge
[Noel:] Oh yes?
[Ian:] in Surrey. Erm... not particularly because we, we wanted to go to Weybridge but er
[Noel:] Cos travelling's expensive isn't it?
[Ian:] It is actually. Fifteen hundred pounds
[Noel:] [whistling]
[Ian:] for twenty five minutes' journey to Waterloo. But it's got a huge garden which with the two boys I think will be marvellous.
[Noel:] Oh yes.
[Ian:] It's very unusual for a... even in a, a suburban er
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ian:] area. Huge garden.
[Noel:] I know Weybridge slightly.
[Ian:] Do you? Oh.
[Noel:] Mm. Erm... but will you make, be able to make much profit on the... on your old Chiswick house to be able to buy the Weybridge one, will that be an economic move?
[Ian:] Erm... we save quite a lot er which is what we're trying to do, yes.
[Noel:] Oh good, yes.
[Ian:] Erm... and it's er it's a good area for schools
[Noel:] It is a good area for schools, mm.
[Ian:] a a and er it's you know a reasonable community
[Noel:] As a matter of fact I knew an old couple that ran a, had a nursery school there, a big one and a very successful one.
[Ian:] Yes I imagine it, it would be.
[Noel:] For a number of years they did have but er
[Ian:] It's a shame about le leaving... Hounslow where Chiswick is
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ian:] because they provide nursery places. And
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ian:] so Thomas who's three is at school.
[Noel:] Oh yes.
[Ian:] Whereas Surrey doesn't until they're five.
[Noel:] Oh dear.
[Ian:] So we'll have to put them
[Noel:] Even if they don't you can sometimes find that... if you get behind the scenes that there is a way of doing it.
[Ian:] Yes. Yes.
[Noel:] Got to spin a hard luck story, something of that sort.
[Ian:] Yeah. Yes. But erm... we're very lucky where we are. The state schools are very good.
[Noel:] Are they, in Chiswick?
[Ian:] They do seem very good. Very pleased with them. But erm it's difficult living in London now. The erm... you really are aware, I don't know if you get up to London much?
[Noel:] Do occasionally, yes.
[Ian:] Yes but the erm... the atmosphere
[Noel:] Oh I hate London, it's awful.
[Ian:] Chris Christmas day... I had a real chest erm... and mouth and everything.
[Noel:] I can quite believe it.
[Ian:] And it's erm it's so oppressive and we really worry about it with the children.
[Noel:] Yes well I can see that, mm. I er I very much dislike London. We've got, still got a little house there
[Ian:] Yes.
[Noel:] and er so it gets sort of
[Ian:] At the organ works?
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Noel:] It's a bolt hole
[Ian:] Mhm.
[Noel:] but I very seldom use it.
[Ian:] Yes.... How, how's the er organ business going?
[Noel:] They're up to their eyes in work. Plenty of
[Ian:] Really?
[Noel:] of work. Mm.
[Ian:] Good.
[Noel:] Lot of it export.
[Ian:] Good.
[Enid:] Ian do you have milk in your tea?
[Ian:] Just milk, that'll be
[Enid:] Just
[Ian:] lovely.
[Enid:] yes right.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] No sugar?
[Ian:] No thank you.
[Enid:] Oh good lad....
[Noel:] Oh yes John s came back from Japan
[Ian:] Really?
[Noel:] They, he built a large organ university of or
[Ian:] Yes, yes.
[Noel:] And er... he was back there ten days ago for some or other to see another customer... and when he came, only got back into the country on Monday or Tuesday
[Ian:] Aha.
[Noel:] beginning of this week... and then today I've had a letter from an architect friend in America suggesting he gets in touch with an architect in for another job
[Ian:] Yes, yes.
[Noel:] I'm taking it down to him tomorrow.
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER]
[Noel:] But he's... he's got work in there to come.... He's going to build a new organ for Chelmsford cathedral.
[Ian:] Oh that's good
[Noel:] A new one for St John's College Cambridge, he's really quite busy.
[Ian:] Good. Good well I'm pleased that er business is strong.
[Noel:] Oh yes he's alright. Yes.
[Enid:] Well Ian and how are you doing?
[Ian:] Oh not too bad. Keeping fit
[Enid:] Really?
[Ian:] anyway. Yes.
[Enid:] You're keeping fit? That's good.
[Noel:] He said he didn't bring the children because he thought that we were too old for them.
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER] I think we're, I'm too old for my children, well the smallest one.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] How lovely.
[Ian:] Harry is a... a nightmare. He's a real
[Enid:] Is he?
[Ian:] handful. Yes.
[Enid:] He's a handful is he? Oh dear. I'm just going to pour you a
[Ian:] Right.
[Enid:] I w I was letting it
[Ian:] Thank you.
[Enid:] er brew a little bit just to
[Ian:] Yes that's fine
[Enid:] for you.
[Ian:] You're looking very fit anyway.
[Enid:] Oh that's kind of you. Well we keep busy don't we darling? Ya. And erm... we just love it here of course
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] so we've got nothing to grumble about at all really.
[Noel:] Ian was saying how
[Ian:] Good.
[Noel:] he's moving out of London t to Weybridge or hoping to.
[Ian:] Hoping to.
[Enid:] You are?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Oh are you?
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] That'll be nice.
[Ian:] I, I think so.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] It's not... it's not out of choice entirely because er... the business that I was has, has gone very very badly over the last eighteen months
[Enid:] Do you mean that type of business or that particular firm?
[Ian:] Both.
[Enid:] Oh.
[Ian:] Yeah. But the particular firm I was a director of went into receivership
[Enid:] Oh dear.
[Ian:] beginning of last year, it was about
[Enid:] Oh that's
[Ian:] a year ago now and erm... so er I mean fortunately it was bought er as a going concern
[Enid:] Good.
[Ian:] erm but everyone's financial position er suffered as a result.
[Enid:] Yes. Mm.
[Ian:] So I'm not as, on as good a contract.
[Enid:] You're not?
[Ian:] No.
[Enid:] No.
[Ian:] But them I'm lucky to have... have a job really.
[Enid:] Well [cough] I mean these were the kind of jobs that weren't replaceable weren't they really?
[Ian:] Well...
[Enid:] In a slump.
[Ian:] yes that's it. I mean there's so little business around that erm
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ian:] so
[Enid:] It was, it was... somewhat a good thing that somebody was prepared to buy it.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Now I'll pull this forward a bit erm... Ian
[Ian:] Sorry is this your seat?
[Enid:] and... no it isn't, no no no, not at all. Now I'm going to leave those there
[Ian:] Yes. Alright
[Enid:] and you'll just dive in to those won't you?
[Ian:] Oh lovely thank you.
[Enid:] That's the thing. I'm going to sit quite near to you because I can hear better when I do.
[Ian:] Right.
[Enid:] So. Erm so this means that the house [cough] that you were so... er happy with and have you continued to be happy with it?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Erm in er forgotten
[Ian:] In Chiswick.
[Enid:] In Chiswick
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] that's right. Aha. So you've got to leave that now?
[Ian:] Yes. Yes.
[Enid:] Mm
[Ian:] But...
[Enid:] Well this is life when you're young.
[Ian:] i i it is really. Yeah I mean we we're... fatalistic about it, it's... I, I think it is only a, a phase.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] Things will change.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] I'm sure we've learnt er I've learnt er business er... er secures as a result of it
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] erm so... positive about it.
[Enid:] Yes. It's the only way to be really isn't it?
[Ian:] Well yeah yes.
[Enid:] Have you got a house ready for you in erm Weybridge?
[Ian:] Well we're buying it from an ol elderly chap
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] erm he's been in it twenty years... and er he's had it on the market for some time. It m probably not as long as a year but it's quite a while
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] er and he's accepted our offer
[Enid:] Good.
[Ian:] but he doesn't seem actually willing to move out
[Enid:] Oh [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] er which I can understand really.
[Enid:] You, one gets very fond of a house really.
[Ian:] I think he's he's split up with his wife
[Enid:] Oh.
[Ian:] although he must be sixty odd erm... and it's obviously a very difficult time for him.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] Erm so he's keeping us in limbo really
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] which is a bit infuriating cos er Alison's due our third in... [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] My!
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER] at the end of June []
[Enid:] Oh.
[Ian:] so er we have to be decided either way
[Enid:] yes.
[Ian:] by then.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] Oh we're quite happy to rent for a while.
[Enid:] I was going to say that's the alternative I suppose
[Ian:] Yes, yes
[Enid:] to, yes.
[Ian:] yes
[Enid:] And you might even have to do this er for an interim period or something
[Ian:] Yes
[Enid:] until he decides
[Noel:] Can you get
[Ian:] yes.
[Noel:] places to rent alright?
[Ian:] Yes you can actually, yes. Yes.
[Enid:] Mm yes, do help yourself Ian. Erm so... where would he be meaning to go if he does let you
[Ian:] He wants to move down to a smaller house in Weybridge.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] Er which we're told shouldn't be difficult to find.
[Enid:] Er no no.
[Ian:] So erm, you know, hopefully that will be the case.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] But erm... I don't think he er realizes how difficult it is
[Enid:] No.
[Ian:] to set up
[Enid:] No.
[Ian:] a move and that really he's quite fortunate to have a buyer... somewhere within the price he wanted.
[Enid:] Indeed.
[Ian:] Cos we've all... you know, we've all not got as much for our houses as we want
[Enid:] No that's very true. That's true.
[Ian:] ...
[Enid:] Mm. Oh well let's hope that he will. I mean the thing is... at the age of sixty he has no conception of what it's like to be your age at this period.
[Ian:] Mm. Well, you know, he hasn't bought a hou sold a house within the last ten years
[Enid:] Mhm mm
[Ian:] which we've done a number of times
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] and it's not a pleasant... it's a very stressful business.
[Enid:] I'm sure I'm sure it is. I don't know how we escaped it so much but we have you see. Because we lived on the business, that was
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] er a foregone conclusion and we never... sought to move from there until he retired did we?
[Ian:] Mm.
[Noel:] No.
[Enid:] So one doesn't know er exactly what it's like to do it.
[Ian:] No. No.
[Enid:] Mm. Gosh. And tell us about the children, how old are they?
[Ian:] Harry is erm he'll be two in June
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Ian:] then Thomas will be four in August.
[Enid:] Oh I see, so they're nice spaces.
[Ian:] Yes there'll be two years between all of them.
[Enid:] Yes. Yes.
[Ian:] So which Alison feels is erm... er you know the right sort of time
[Enid:] Ideal really.
[Ian:] for her
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] which is obviously important.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] And erm they haven't had... Thomas doesn't remember not having Harry around
[Enid:] That's nice.
[Ian:] whereas we've got friends who've got older children... well a little bit there's, yeah, three or four years between
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] and they get er old enough to be er quite er happy that they're on... you know,c centre of attention
[Enid:] Exactly.
[Ian:] which er Thomas hasn't.
[Enid:] It sours the relationship a bit.
[Ian:] Yeah it does a bit.
[Enid:] Yes aha.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Ah well I... I is this going to be, if it's a boy is this going to be a Benjamin?
[Ian:] I don't know actually. could be.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] you've got two boys
[Ian:] Mhm.
[Enid:] and so
[Noel:] the last of the tribe.
[Enid:] Oh the last of the tribe.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Enid:] Well I think I think you know what I mean.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Erm that's what we did finally in desperation with Ben wasn't it?
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER] You decided to []
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] He was five, number five []. Erm it would be nice to have a little girl then now wouldn't it
[Ian:] Mm
[Enid:] really?
[Ian:] I'd, it's funny because I always wanted a girl
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] but now I, I wouldn't know, I don't feel [LAUGHTER] I'd know what to do []
[Enid:] Mm well... this is just how Ruth was.
[Ian:] Yes
[Noel:] got no choice.
[Ian:] Mm. No that's right.
[Enid:] This is what Ruth er felt cos she had two boys
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] but erm and she thought I shan't know how to deal with a girl at all
[Ian:] Mhm.
[Enid:] which is a funny thing for a woman to think isn't it?
[Ian:] Well Alison feels the same, yes
[Enid:] Does she?
[Ian:] Yes, yes she does. Yeah.
[Enid:] It is odd isn't it? But
[Ian:] And then she had
[Enid:] Oh, oh she adores her, and of course she said it's wonderful, I don't have to keep struggling to get boys out of their trousers.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] This of course is passing now because the girl's
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] four isn't she Noel? Four and...
[Ian:] Really? Gosh
[Enid:] she'll be five in April and that's the youngest one.
[Ian:] Oh.
[Enid:] And er, oh here they are
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] and er she said it was lovely to be able to put her in dresses.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] That's the first day at school
[Ian:] Oh lovely.
[Enid:] for Catherine.
[Ian:] Mhm.
[Enid:] She, they all go to the same school.
[Ian:] Oh lovely. [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] That's nice isn't it?
[Ian:] children, yes it's great.
[Enid:] Mm. So Ruth I think as far as, barring accidents, will regard that as being her final
[Ian:] Right.
[Enid:] They live in Wells
[Ian:] Oh do they?
[Enid:] in Somerset. Mm.
[Ian:] Yes. Oh lovely. I don't know that area but
[Enid:] And they no... they're very happy... there. So... that's them.
[Ian:] And I gather John's doing well.
[Enid:] Yes John is doing well, he's got three children too.
[Ian:] He's ooh
[Enid:] Yes and his are
[Ian:] lots
[Enid:] the other way round
[Ian:] Aha.
[Enid:] erm a boy first and then two girls.
[Ian:] Well he's got three too.
[Enid:] Nice kids.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Mm yes nice kids.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] And of course Margaret's not erm inclined for marriage, she loves her job.
[Ian:] No, yeah.
[Enid:] And erm I think she'll be... she'll, she'll probably stay single unless
[Ian:] Mhm
[Enid:] she meets some nice old man.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] Wh and where's Margaret working?...
[Enid:] She's now at erm one of the girls public day school... trust schools in Sydenham.
[Ian:] Oh.
[Noel:] Sydenham High School.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Sydenham High School... For Girls. Her dream really is to be teaching at City of London School
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] And erm I'm ho we're hoping that she might
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] get a job there. But she loves her work doesn't she Noel?
[Noel:] Very secure.
[Enid:] And she
[Noel:] And your mother seems keeping quite well.
[Ian:] Yes, yes she is. She had a bad er... flu over Christmas when she was due to come... and she's still got a very bad chest
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Oh I'm sorry to hear that, oh.
[Ian:] but er
[Enid:] That's the bit that hangs on always
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] isn't it? Mm. Yes I saw her, I went up to I went to... keep fit with her
[Ian:] Oh you did? Good.
[Enid:] and er
[Ian:] Good.
[Enid:] although I didn't last... Tuesday, I did the Tuesday before and she seemed
[Ian:] Mhm
[Enid:] to be getting back on her feet alright.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Ah
[Ian:] She says she's much better
[Enid:] Mm. And what about Hamish?
[Ian:] Mhm.
[Enid:] Doing fine?
[Ian:] Mm. Finding it quite difficult to get work but erm he was over at Christmas for a short time.
[Enid:] Oh yes. I don't think
[Ian:] And I saw him
[Enid:] we saw him did we? No.
[Ian:] Well he wasn't here very long
[Enid:] No.
[Ian:] but er they've got, they've se set up their own teaching business
[Enid:] Oh, have they?
[Ian:] and again because of the recession over there le learning English is, is one of the things that, you know, gets put, put back on the
[Enid:] It's not a priority.
[Ian:] priority yes.
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Ian:] So erm... but they se they seem to be working out okay.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] They've taken somebody else on so things can't be that bad
[Enid:] Have they?
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Oh good. Mhm.
[Ian:] er Alec is a re another real handful.
[Enid:] Is he?
[Ian:] He's a year younger than Thomas but he was... the same height
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] and er sort of wild curly hair and
[Enid:] Oh really?
[Ian:] Yes. real wild
[Enid:] Isn't that funny?
[Ian:] but lovely, lovely boy yeah.
[Enid:] Yes, yes but, but lively.
[Ian:] Yes. Mm. Very much so.
[Enid:] Is that the only child they have at the present time?
[Ian:] Yes. Yes.
[Enid:] Mhm. Mm.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] All they can cope with I think.
[Enid:] And of course he'll be bilingual.
[Ian:] Well he is.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] He's quite slow as a result, which is quite common apparently
[Enid:] Is it?
[Ian:] with er... children who are brought up with both languages.
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Ian:] Erm... bec they don't speak either very well to start off with.
[Enid:] And how old is he did you say?
[Ian:] He's two and a half
[Enid:] Oh well it's early. It's such an advantage to them later on I think.
[Ian:] Oh well a absolutely yes.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] Er he... because Toni, Hamish's wife
[Enid:] Mm
[Ian:] is half French... so
[Enid:] Is she?
[Ian:] I'm, I'm sure he'll her pick up
[Enid:] Get three. Trilingual.
[Ian:] Yes. Cos they spend quite a lot of time, they spend their holidays in France.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] So I'm sure that confuses him even more at this stage.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Course it does.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes but in the end it does seem to work. I was always... a bit doubtful about it
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] erm er you know, whether it could vu confuse children or not but in fact it doesn't seem to with John's children does it?
[Noel:] No no. His
[Enid:] They use
[Noel:] his wife is German.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] Mhm.
[Enid:] And they use both languages quite freely.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] In fact she gets rather... uptight because erm... during the year at school when they're speaking English most of the time
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] which is very natural, and so she ships them off to Germany to the relatives
[Ian:] To put them straight.
[Enid:] Aye [LAUGHTER]
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] That's quite right I think because it is a good, good thing.
[Enid:] That's right. Well it is.
[Ian:] I wo I won't thanks.
[Enid:] Will you have another one?
[Ian:] No thank you.
[Enid:] Well help yourself then if you want one. Mm.... But
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] of course the, the, the slump is also, not the slump, the recession is also er operative in Italy is it?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] It's everywhere. Ian why do people
[Noel:] It's worldwide.
[Ian:] Well
[Enid:] make such a fuss about it erm I mean politically?
[Ian:] Well, yes well I suppose it's
[Enid:] Everybody's having to cope with it.
[Ian:] coming up to an election time and
[Enid:] Of course.
[Ian:] everyone er
[Enid:] They're bound to use it.
[Ian:] bound to use anything they can
[Noel:] Mm.
[Ian:] er any angle they can get, get a grip of.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] But er... yes, no it is... th I mean they had a lot of business from banks and areas like that
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] which of course have lost a lot of money in the last year or two.
[Enid:] That's right of course. They have, they will be drawing back on most things.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] [cough] But in fact... they're the people aren't they who need bilingual people on the staff?
[Ian:] Yes they are. They're much, much better. I mean y er... you know, although they're in recession I, I think there's... you know in this country
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] we we're owned now, our company, by a French agency group... and erm... none of our directors are, are learning French.
[Enid:] Isn't it extraordinary.
[Ian:] And yet you've got... people who run restaurants, small businesses of that sort erm... just general businessmen who want, you know, know they have to speak English.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] And they're just doing it as a matter of course over there.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Enid:] They all seem to have more drive than our people, what's the matter with us?...
[Ian:] It's certainly in the, in that area, it's the cosmopolitan business
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] attitude er... and also it's complacency because we can
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] you can get away with it. You know all the meetings
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ian:] are held in English.
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Ian:] And er the French speak very good English
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] erm so there's, there's not enough incentive there.
[Enid:] No.
[Ian:] And I have to say that er I don't. But I, I, I... I ou really I, I know I'll have to be thrown into the situation of having to do it
[Enid:] You'd better get on with it and do it now.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] But of course the beauty of it is you've done it at school haven't you?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] And once you've done it at school, it comes back with a bit of an effort quite quickly.
[Ian:] Yeah I've got a reasonable vocabulary
[Enid:] Yes. Yes.
[Ian:] but never really spoken it at all. I mean we never did any French trips.
[Enid:] Didn't you?
[Ian:] was useless for languages when I was there.
[Enid:] Was it?
[Ian:] Yes absolutely hopeless. We never did any... trips of that nature at all actually.
[Enid:] And what was the teaching system? Er had they... by the time you were still at school... come on to that new erm... er system where you speak a lot more?
[Ian:] No.
[Enid:] No. You've done it out of grammar books?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] Yes. I remember
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] it was, yeah vocabulary tests and that sort of thing which
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Ian:] you know er well it's er it's a middle ages approach to
[Enid:] Well actually the one thing you can say about it is, it is a good grounding for what you now go on and do
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] because erm wherever you go now for... refresher lessons, they will use the modern method.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] And that's, that will build on that foundation.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] You'll be astonished how quickly it'll come back.
[Ian:] Mm mm.
[Enid:] You really will.
[Ian:] Hopefully.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] Yes all we had when I was at school were l l yards of verbs and yards of nouns, we never knew how to put the two lots together.
[Ian:] No.
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER] []
[Enid:] That's true.
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] The people who had the imagination or ability to do it where the ones that could speak the languages, the ones that didn't
[Noel:] Yes it was
[Ian:] made no connection at all.
[Noel:] Mm. Because I knew a lot of nouns and a lot of verbs, I could get by when I went to Algeria in
[Ian:] Mm.
[Noel:] nineteen forty... but it was... I envied those who could really speak.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] But erm... if you see some officer floundering for... the word for a cabbage or something of that sort I could provide the word and he provided the conversation.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Yes. Well actually... you're going to a centre aren't you er in... where there will be evening classes and that sort of opportunity?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] I think probably
[Ian:] It's, it's it's well erm... served for for
[Enid:] Mm I would imagine it's quite well led.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Ya. And you'll have no problem, yes.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Aha.
[Ian:] I'll have to give up my art classes then which is...
[Enid:] Art?
[Ian:] haven't been doing them recently but when I've been able to get a, er an evening away that's what I
[Enid:] Mm mm.
[Ian:] spend my time doing... over the past few years.
[Enid:] Yes but will it rule it out altogether do you think if you've got to do the French?
[Ian:] Well A Alison goes out for one evening so that means I have to get back early for that evening
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] and then if I, I go out for another one, that means two evening evenings back
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] leaving the office at... five thirty on the dot and of course
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] I, I can't do that more than twice a week.
[Enid:] No. No I see. Your work itself is going to take more time than that.
[Ian:] Well yes.
[Enid:] Is that just at first or is it... regularly?
[Ian:] No I mean it's, it's always been the case.
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.... Ya.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] It's tough really. It is tough.
[Ian:] It's very erratic the work as well, it's it's
[Enid:] Yes, is it?
[Ian:] very, you know, stop start
[Enid:] Yes. Is it still advertising?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] You must be pretty good at that by now.
[Ian:] Well I've got quite a lot of experience I mean I've
[Enid:] Yes you have.
[Ian:] I've done it since I was, well it's getting on for fifteen years now.
[Enid:] It isn't?
[Ian:] Yeah, thirteen years in, in
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] the same area
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] I've not really moved around a lot
[Enid:] No. No.
[Ian:] in the actual function.
[Enid:] No.
[Ian:] Just sort of progressed up the ladder I suppose
[Enid:] Yes.
[Noel:] Mhm.
[Ian:] so, yes...
[Enid:] Yes. Oh well, you can only make the best of the thing you've got and that's the best thing to do rather than
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] unless you're forced to switch er horses, you know in, in mid stream.
[Ian:] Yeah. Well i i I always say that er it always comes a surprise that I was good at anything. And I always think back to the er the time I think Edmund and I were sitting in the back garden here... and deciding that we'd go off and join the paratroopers
[Noel:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Really?
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER] because we weren't going to get [] any O levels.
[Enid:] Oh!
[Ian:] And that was [LAUGHTER] about all we were good for [].
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] I'm sorry. How funny. But in fact you did get your O levels didn't you?
[Ian:] So I remember well I got a handful
[Enid:] Yes I remember Mm.
[Noel:] And Edmund got a B A.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Ah but wait a minute, not until after that was it?
[Ian:] yes.
[Enid:] He got his O levels but that was it.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Decided he'd had enough and I suppose you had too.
[Ian:] Mm well
[Enid:] Did you stay on for As?
[Ian:] Yes I did.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] But again I... you know I always had the ability to er to know, to scrape by
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] or knowing what the minimum required was
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ian:] and er pitching myself at just over that point I think.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] Which I suppose is some sort of [LAUGHTER] ability []
[Enid:] Well it's a it's a, in a way that's quite true.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Yes it saves the er er the use of excess energy when you don't need to doesn't it?
[Ian:] Yes. That's right.
[Enid:] Ah. Edmund was lucky because he got this chance to do... a university you see in
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] in er New Hampshire wasn't it?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Erm...
[Ian:] Well that's when er Ben and I saw him, when he was doing it
[Enid:] That's right, you did.
[Ian:] doing that, yes.
[Enid:] You did.
[Ian:] Yeah. But I'd love to see him again.
[Enid:] Oh yes.
[Ian:] I'd love to get a trip out there.
[Enid:] It would be wonderful wouldn't it?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] He'd so love to see people and of course at the moment
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] he daren't make trips, or at least it wouldn't be wise to make trips yet
[Ian:] I know, yes I know
[Enid:] because he's waiting for his
[Ian:] Yes, naturalization. Shame really.
[Enid:] Yes. That's right.
[Noel:] Can I pour you another cup of tea Ian?
[Ian:] I'm fine actually, thank you.
[Enid:] We've got photographs, recent ones, to show you anyway.
[Ian:] Oh good.
[Enid:] And we saw him in... September October didn't we?
[Noel:] Yes yes
[Enid:] End of September beginning of October
[Ian:] Good.
[Enid:] and stayed they had a barn just a little way from the house, you could see it but it
[Ian:] Right.
[Enid:] wasn't very striking
[Ian:] It was
[Enid:] No it was, it was just grey and, and, and
[Ian:] [cough] Yes.
[Enid:] quite unobtrusive. Well they've had a marvellous sort of conversion of that done
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] for guests and erm
[Ian:] Because they had a beautiful house anyway didn't they?
[Enid:] Oh a beautiful house
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] yes and they're still in the same house. They they're
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] very fond of it. And erm... so now when we go they're awfully sweet and they bring Edmund at the same time
[Ian:] Oh right.
[Enid:] and we all three, Noel and Edmund and I, live in this barn.
[Ian:] Oh that's lovely. ideal.
[Enid:] Which is marvellous.
[Noel:] for breakfast. George did that, really, so that when his grandchildren came he hadn't got them under his feet.
[Ian:] No, it's a good idea.
[Noel:] And he, well he's, he was wealthy enough to do exactly as he wanted.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] Yeah. It sounds ideal.
[Enid:] It's lovely.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] It's very lovely. They're such nice people.
[Ian:] Yeah.
[Enid:] And of course they
[Ian:] I didn't meet him.
[Enid:] Oh didn't you?
[Ian:] No I only met erm Ellie
[Enid:] Ellie.
[Ian:] very briefly as well.
[Enid:] Well it was summer, wasn't it?
[Ian:] Yes... er no it was April.
[Enid:] Oh.
[Ian:] April and the son
[Enid:] And had they gone away then?
[Ian:] the son was there.
[Enid:] Dan.
[Ian:] Dan was around and the other, the, the younger one.
[Enid:] Oh John.
[Ian:] I c I don't remember his name.
[Enid:] Er John was the youngest.
[Ian:] Yes I think it was him.
[Enid:] Mike wouldn't be, I think he was w er getting on a bit, oh I don't know
[Ian:] Dan lived in town
[Enid:] Mike was at university. Yes
[Ian:] er and the, the son, I think he was at college himself
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ian:] and he was sort of back and forwards but he was based
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ian:] in the house.
[Enid:] Yes. That was John.
[Ian:] yes.
[Enid:] Mike was down at er Providence. He was in university. They're all married, those boys now.
[Ian:] Are they?
[Enid:] Yes. Dan is
[Ian:] Good.
[Enid:] married. Without any children
[Ian:] I remember Dan but I
[Enid:] oh yes Dan's a dear boy.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] And er we're very fond of them all.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] And erm of course er it's just like second home to Edmund. They are so good to him.
[Ian:] Yes. I must say it's, it... must be good to have somebody like that er
[Noel:] Absolutely.
[Ian:] o over there cos it, it must be... must have felt quite isolated
[Enid:] Yes. Oh he would if he hadn't got them
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] certainly.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] I mean it's lovely because he... er he adores to get into does Edmund and that means that he and George go about this lovely big er... grounds that they've
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] got... and Edmund does lots of grass cutting and er
[Noel:] tree cutting and
[Enid:] all manner of things with
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] George. They've got a great com a great relationship going.
[Ian:] Good. Good.
[Enid:] And of course he spends Christmas.
[Noel:] let me see, Dan is the same age as John isn't he? As Ben, no... Edmund isn't he?
[Enid:] Erm
[Ian:] I think he's a bit older.
[Enid:] he's older.
[Noel:] Oh.
[Ian:] Yes
[Enid:] He's younger than John
[Ian:] cos Edmund and I are the same age
[Noel:] Oh.
[Enid:] Are you thirty f
[Ian:] Thirty four.
[Enid:] four now?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] That's right. Well I should think Dan might be...
[Ian:] Couple of years older?
[Enid:] Not as much as that.
[Ian:] oh.
[Enid:] Well
[Noel:] before they were married.
[Ian:] Really?
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] Gosh.
[Enid:] Yes Dan must be... I would have thought it's only months probably, but it might be quite a few months.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Mm I don't think it's more because we soon had, started having our children didn't we?
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] Erm... ooh wait a minute we're saying, we're saying than Edmund aren't we?
[Noel:] Yes mm.
[Enid:] Of course, I'm stupid. He was the eldest of their children.
[Ian:] Dan was?
[Enid:] Dan was.
[Noel:] Yes.
[Ian:] Oh right. Yes.
[Enid:] Ya. So I'm v I'm a bit vague about it, you may well be right and it's two years
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] because of course we've got older children than Edmund.
[Noel:] That would line him up with Edmund though wouldn't it? No
[Ian:] Yes
[Enid:] No
[Ian:] no
[Enid:] no, a couple of years you're quite right.
[Noel:] Mm?
[Enid:] Couple of years older I should think. Yeah. That's it. But erm oh they're a great family they really are but I think George and J Joy's having Edmund because although Dan lives in the town er what's it called, New Haven?
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Erm obviously he's got his own business, he's got a shop now, an outfitter's shop.
[Ian:] Yes
[Enid:] Did he have it that time?
[Ian:] He had something like that. He was so vague though. I mean
[Enid:] I know
[Ian:] he was delightfully vague
[Enid:] Oh he's an absolutely
[Ian:] [LAUGHTER] but I was never really sure [LAUGHTER] what he was doing [].
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] No []
[Ian:] Er yes I... I thought he had a shop, maybe yes...
[Enid:] That's er he worked in a shop... probably at that time.
[Ian:] Yes I think so yes.
[Enid:] That's it, he worked in that er fancy goods shop
[Noel:] That's right.
[Ian:] nine years ago
[Noel:] Visitors shop.
[Ian:] that we went.
[Enid:] Sorry?
[Ian:] I think it was nine years ago.
[Enid:] Was it?
[Ian:] Yes.... Yes.
[Enid:] It doesn't seem possible really does it?
[Ian:] The year before I married. Eighty five.
[Enid:] Good heavens. Was it really?
[Ian:] Is that no, no eighty five that... no eighty three, that's right, yes, nine years.
[Enid:] Was it? Mm.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Oh well that was a great thing for you really wasn't it? You must have enjoyed it.
[Ian:] Oh it was a marvellous trip. Splendid.
[Enid:] Was it?
[Ian:] Absolutely yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] Really very good.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ian:] I enjoyed travelling with Ben a lot.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ian:] He's a very good er companion.
[Enid:] Yes he was a good travelling companion I should
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] imagine.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes. He of course is
[Noel:] Ben's been all over the world since then
[Enid:] Well yes.
[Ian:] I know. I'm most envious of him I am.
[Enid:] And do you sometimes get any word from him?
[Ian:] Very rarely. [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Mm well so do we. Rarely. Yes.
[Ian:] I must write to him myself actually.
[Enid:] Have you got his latest address?
[Ian:] I haven't, no.
[Enid:] I'd better give it to you because he has
[Ian:] Right.
[Enid:] changed it.
[Ian:] I did bring my address book with me.
[Noel:] I'll go and I'll go and get it for you and do make yourself another tea
[Enid:] Oh righto I'll just, excuse me a minute I'm
[Ian:] Yes of course
[Noel:] You sit down, that's alright.
[Ian:] Right.
[Noel:] Oh yes....
[Enid:] Oh I see.
[Ian:] the day before he left.
[Enid:] Mm....
[Ian:] Is this on the sort of or something?
[Enid:] Ah it's pretty, yes... [LAUGHTER] it's that sort of place [] [LAUGHTER]...
[Ian:] Have you been to Hong Kong?
[Enid:] I haven't been to Hong Kong to see Ben
[Ian:] Mhm.
[Enid:] because, but I did go to Hong Kong when I went to China.
[Ian:] Oh you went to China, that's right, yeah.
[Enid:] That's right for three weeks and erm... then I wasn't impressed by it, I was much more interested in China.
[Ian:] Yes.
[Enid:] But I would, in a way, love to go whilst he's there but he... er he really feels that it wouldn't be a place that would suit pa and me on holiday.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] So...
[Noel:] I've heard that before.
[Enid:] What love?
[Noel:] Other people... it's a noisy place.
[Enid:] It isn't it isn't nice but for the young
[Noel:] Well Enid's been there I haven't.
[Ian:] Mm.
[Enid:] It's nice for the young I think.
[Ian:] As far as I've been is the airport.
[Enid:] Mm. Now can you see Edmund's cos he changed You see it's a terrible erm
[Noel:] Well I'll go and get it, I've got it written down there in my place.
[Enid:] Well it's here darling but it's just a question of finding it, it's
[Ian:] right.
[Enid:] Just go through, you'll find it certainly.... Is it that's it, is it? That's it.
[Ian:] Oh
[Enid:] That's it, that's it.
[Ian:] Well that's lovely....
[Noel:] I'm going to get one of those articles that Ben wr Edmund wrote.
[Enid:] Oh yes, yes he'll enjoy that....
[Ian:] I've got no excuse now.
[Enid:] No. [LAUGHTER]... Who's going to sit down? That's right sit there.
[speaker005:] I expect si, don't know how Len's gotta sit down or whether he's gotta stand.
[Enid:] I'm gonna stand. Are you happier standing?
[speaker005:] Yes it's his
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] That's alright [].
[speaker005:] his back.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]... Belinda... if we can start with you more or less... erm... I heard the other day that you're... half thinking that you might like to be... a nurse?
[Noel:] Yeah, that's it. That's right. Mhm.
[Enid:] [whispering] Can you speak up a bit.
[speaker005:] Speak up a bit Belinda!
[Enid:] What erm... what sort of nurse are you thinking about?
[Noel:] Nursery nurse, looking after young children in nurseries and stuff like that. Mhm.
[Enid:] I can imagine you doing that.
[Noel:] Can you?
[Enid:] Aha.
[Noel:] Mhm.
[Enid:] I can.
[Noel:] Yes. I'm going, for work experience I'm going to Saxted Ministry up there hopefully... to see what it's like looking after children... you know, like a nursery and everything. So hopefully I can get the job there... from that two weeks, and then
[Enid:] That would be wonderful!
[Noel:] what it's like. Yeah.
[Enid:] I didn't
[Noel:] Yes.
[Enid:] know there was one at Saxted
[Noel:] Yeah, it's called Rainbow. I think, isn't it? Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh that's right, yes.
[Enid:] And is that for children who are... living there or just go in for the day?
[Noel:] Just go in for the day till their parents go to work I think.
[speaker005:] Mhm,
[Enid:] Oh Good!
[Noel:] I think it's something like that, yeah. Aha.
[Enid:] And what qualifications mus must you have for that?
[Noel:] Erm, I don't really know at the moment, I gotta look up and see what it needs, like and things... to do... and study, things like that.
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Noel:] Mm. Mhm.
[Enid:] Good! So probably... GCSE
[Noel:] Right. Mhm. It's all to do with GCSE coursework and... see how we're getting on... during the two weeks and... we get experience for us when we leave school and go to work.
[Enid:] That's a good idea!
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] You get a feeling for it then.
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] I think it's one of the best jobs for a girl that there are don't you?
[speaker005:] Well I think so, I think... erm... as long as they can go and work with children... and then... they've got the time when they can leave off and come, but it's having the whole time, well then they've children all their life haven't they?
[Enid:] Yes.
[speaker005:] This is the only thing if... you go sort of privately... you know?
[Enid:] Yes.
[speaker005:] You can fe... start of with children and you are finishing up with children!
[Enid:] Well that... well tha... wo would tha would you not think that's a good thing?
[speaker005:] Erm
[Enid:] I mean, for instance, if you do the... the very high grade Norlands nanny training... they go on till they're... grey and... experienced it all
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] Like me []!
[Enid:] haven't they? Well, you know i... don't they? Well
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] would you feel you'd not want to do it all that time then Belinda?
[Noel:] I don't really know... actually, it's always
[Enid:] Can't yet.
[Noel:] the time, no.
[Enid:] That's true.
[Noel:] I don't know but, that far ahead, you know.
[Enid:] Just a good experience for her... for time, you know. Indeed! But I shouldn't want her do it all her life! You wouldn't? No. It's a very well paid job! Oh yes, I know! What about that, but I meant she gotta think about, she'll want children of own... and then she'll have chi Yes. Aren't you? Aye Liddy? Oh yes! But then don't you think that it's a, it's a marvellous training for her? That's what I say, it's a training, nice Yes. training for them, then say after about three or four year... if they wanna get married, they got children and they got... some good experience. Absolutely! Mm. It's invaluable. Yes. That can't be the kind of thing you're thinking of then? [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]... What do you want, what do you have er, in mind?
[Mollie:] I'd like to go into the farmer business.
[Enid:] Would you?
[Mollie:] Yeah, erm... mixed farm with animals and sort of, cereal crops, stuff like that.
[Enid:] Good! Well you're in the right place for that.
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Would you got to an agricultural college?
[Mollie:] Yeah, I'm hoping to go Ockleigh whe... why am I, get older. Sort of erm... working on a farm for two days then going to the college... erm... that, so I do it like that. Mm.
[Enid:] It's a good place, Ockleigh
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Splendid! And then, would you like to work in this area or would you like to go... elsewhere?
[Mollie:] I don't know. I hadn't really thought about it, it's erm... it all depends on what farm I'm going on cos I've... or erm... cows an, cows and bullocks, you know.
[Enid:] Mm. Mm. And you won't have worked on a farm at all yet, will you?
[Mollie:] No. Not yet. Though, go and sometimes and he's got bullocks so that's where I go, got it from. And... Dave.
[Enid:] Oh that's good!
[speaker005:] They got ponies haven't they
[Mollie:] Yeah and
[Enid:] Mm mm.
[Mollie:] these two erm, sort of mucking about....
[Enid:] You think you'd quite like to be with animals would you?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Aha.
[Mollie:] And I, I wouldn't mind doing some... sort of... a rou, some amount of work.
[Enid:] Yeah, what I mean, all round agricultural work and on your?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Is that it? Well
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] that's great!
[speaker005:] We've been gardening this morning.
[Enid:] I was looking at the garden as I came in, I thought I might have, even though I didn't know the number Yeah. I'd have known that was your Yeah. garden. [LAUGHTER] Because of all the trimmings.
[speaker005:] Well it's... not very good this year aren't they?
[Enid:] No, they're not very good at all! Well bearing in mind
[speaker005:] In fact, we're disappointed with it cos usually we have vegetables... out of our own garden all the year round but... they didn't do very well this year did they?
[Enid:] No. It's Why's that? the worst garden had for years! It's a dry summer time. Really! Last summer time, I mean Ah yes! last year I was... cutting cauliflowers weighing nearly five and seven pound, but this year I shan't have... one weight two pound! Is that because of the dry winter? Yeah, dry is... dry autumn too, you see. Yes. Yeah. Yes.
[speaker005:] They didn't really get a hold did they?
[Enid:] They didn't get a hold, didn't get a start. Really? Aha. See an a, I wouldn't like other people keep using the water cos they... very careful on using the water Yes. but if I'd have give it, had to give them some water they'd have... done much better but I, like everybody else we kept hoping it were gonna rain, [LAUGHTER] but []! That's right. Yeah. And it never did at the right No. time. No. No, I see. No, I mean we have to tops this time of year, we ain't got any in this year.
[speaker005:] We ain't bothered to put them did you?
[Enid:] No er, cos they'd have dry up but I didn't put none in.
[speaker005:] No.
[Enid:] You'll But miss them. Ooh well we have missed them!
[speaker005:] Yeah. That's like the sprouts, they didn't do as well this year
[Enid:] No.
[speaker005:] either did they?
[Enid:] No one ate the did they?
[speaker005:] No.
[Enid:] Nor the cauliflow
[speaker005:] No.
[Enid:] No. Mm!
[speaker005:] So erm... well he... you took the sprouts up yesterday didn't you?
[Mollie:] And I put the other in.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] They'd got erm... but they weren't no good those ones dad.
[Enid:] No, nope! I mean the... a normal week would go on a garden and get free vegetables every day off our garden couldn't we, normal time, normal, every time? Every day of the year! Gosh!
[speaker005:] You know the
[Enid:] Mm mm. That's wonderful! Because
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] there's nothing like them is there? Oh there isn't, no no! Aha.
[speaker005:] Well, we'll probably pick some of the spinach... today... and then
[Enid:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] he's gotta dig that up... and make the garden.
[Enid:] Yes. Do you like gardening too, Ben? Ooh he love it! Oh isn't that great! Because very often you, a father can be very keen on gardening... and getting the children to help him is just the last thing. [LAUGHTER] Yeah []!
[speaker005:] Well he's done ever since he was a little old boy, just
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] start walk, walking.
[Enid:] Well
[speaker005:] Have you?
[Enid:] Got, we got some photographs
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] here when he, where he started digging, he weren't very old!
[speaker005:] No.
[Mollie:] Yeah, erm... when I started digging up I was smaller than the fork, the fork was, yes!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Really? And they didn't buy you one the right size!
[Mollie:] No.
[speaker005:] way you do it at granny's.
[Mollie:] Yeah erm... when I got a little older, I put these little forks in and... when
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Cos Miss, ain't seen any of my family's have you? No, I haven't. That's my older sister. Died last August. Oh that's nice! That's my older sister Yes. Yes. Yes.
[speaker005:] That... that little boy is o but
[Enid:] Is he? And do they live near? Fairly near? Er
[speaker005:] Arborough No.
[Enid:] No! Arborough
[speaker005:] Arborough
[Enid:] Arborough man, is it?
[speaker005:] Yeah,Arb, erm
[Enid:] What's her name of the farm, the innit?
[Noel:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Farm.
[Enid:] Farm, Arborough Arborough is that in... Lincolnshire? No.
[speaker005:] No.
[Enid:] Er, Norfolk.
[speaker005:] Norfolk.
[Enid:] Oh, Norfolk! Er Mm. Just the other side of Halsam between Halsam and. Oh is it? Mm. Yes. Ah well Yeah. that's and the nice! That's nice! And tha, and that's her husband look. Oh yes, that's right. Yes. And this was their... golden wedding? Yes, yes
[speaker005:] It was last
[Enid:] last August.
[speaker005:] It was last August.
[Enid:] Isn't that lovely! Yeah. And that's the farm house, in fact? Mm?
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Enid:] Is that farm
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Enid:] house? That's the farm Yes. house, yes. They've Yes. been there ooh well... forty year I think. Really? Mm. That's lovely! Mm. They've had the... his father Lovely! had a farm at and they sold that and moved to that one. Really? Yeah.
[speaker005:] And that's Len's
[Enid:] That's
[speaker005:] brothers on there.
[Enid:] That's all my
[speaker005:] The wedding we went to, was it two years ago now?
[Enid:] Oh yeah. Not long.
[speaker005:] Not quite two years ago was it?
[Enid:] No.
[speaker005:] Two years
[Enid:] That's all my brothers. Ooh, look at that! He is the image! Mm. And that's my Yes. next to me that is. That's right.
[speaker005:] And then
[Enid:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] the girls are on there aren't they?
[Enid:] Yeah, that's my sister... the upper Oh yes! sister. Yes. Yes.
[speaker005:] And that's Len's mother. She's now ninety four!
[Enid:] She's... still alive is she? Yeah.
[speaker005:] Ninety four!
[Enid:] Splendid!
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Has sh Yeah sh, only the last two years she's gone a bit blind or otherwise she could do anything couldn't she?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Really? Yeah.
[speaker005:] Well we saw her Sunday didn't we?
[Enid:] We went over Sunday and see her. She looks very smart
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] there doesn't she?
[speaker005:] That's... that's Len's brother, the one who on that... book graph.
[Enid:] Oh yes, yes.
[speaker005:] Erm... oh where's another one? They... old Grace is sitting
[Enid:] And that's Len.
[speaker005:] behind there
[Enid:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] that's right. That's another sister behind there.
[Enid:] Ah yes I see her.
[speaker005:] So that's just one, two, three sisters and
[Enid:] Mm!
[speaker005:] then
[Enid:] And three brothers? Yeah. And I got a sister, I got a sister in America
[speaker005:] Three brother, no four brothers innit, you got?
[Enid:] Four brothers, yes. Four brothers? Yes. So you were eight... altogether? Yeah, that's right, yes.
[speaker005:] Yes but the oldest brother is dead now isn't he?
[Enid:] Oh yeah oldest brother's dead, yes he Is he? yes he got
[speaker005:] And that's where Belinda's her, she's now got a little... baby boy
[Enid:] Oh, that's nice!
[speaker005:] three months old?
[Noel:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Or two months old?
[Noel:] He's about eight weeks old.
[Enid:] Eight weeks?
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Oh they're just beginning to be... I always feel by the time they're eight weeks Yes. they're just beginning to be here really. Yes, that's
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] right. They're frightening until they're eight weeks old
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] aren't they?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] But of course this will be lovely for you! Yeah.
[Noel:] Mhm.
[Enid:] You might even be allowed to bath... her or him?
[Noel:] Him.
[speaker005:] Him. Michael.
[Noel:] Michael.
[Enid:] Mightn't you?
[Noel:] Mhm. Yeah.
[Enid:] That will be nice!
[Noel:] Hopefully.
[Enid:] Whereabouts is this?
[Noel:] My erm...
[speaker005:] She lives at Martlesham. Oh that
[Enid:] Oh where where
[speaker005:] that
[Enid:] she lives. Oh sorry!
[speaker005:] Martlesham
[Noel:] Martlesham village.
[Enid:] Martlesham. Martlesham.
[Noel:] Mhm.
[Enid:] That was down at the... the little wooden.
[speaker005:] That's Widdlesdale Church.
[Enid:] Widdesdale Oh I see!
[speaker005:] And that's the first marriage they had in there for twenty five years weren't it?
[Enid:] Yep! No!
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Is that so? Yes.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Bonny girl isn't she?
[speaker005:] You don't know who that is do you?
[Enid:] Oh I do!
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] That's a lovely picture of you Belinda isn't it?
[Noel:] Mm mm.
[Enid:] Lovely! I always say that these... two children, they're lovely to meet because erm... oh that's nice too!
[speaker005:] We got one of those.
[Enid:] Because they always erm... answer, whenever I, we meet in the... village shop, we always have a chat don't we?
[Noel:] Yeah we do.
[Enid:] That's lovely! Mm mm, what beautiful pictures! Is that kiss or a whisper? That's a kiss.
[speaker005:] It was a kiss.
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] The first one was so quick they had to get him to do it again!
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Because he's looking a little bit this way isn't he? [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] That's lo, oh they're lovely aren't they!
[speaker005:] When you erm
[Enid:] They're very nice!
[speaker005:] that's... but the they, they're jolly expensive aren't they?
[Enid:] Cor!
[speaker005:] You know, they're a lovely lot
[Enid:] Well they are!
[speaker005:] of pictures, and you couldn't tell really which ones
[Enid:] They are nowadays, that's true!
[speaker005:] to have but you've got to just go for what you can... erm... well afford to.
[Enid:] Well yes, yes! Well yeah it's
[speaker005:] I only used to a little bit of
[Enid:] Well I mean if you had twenty or thirty that's only the same only... a little bit different, that's all That's right. because many are the same but You don't want all that many do you No. really? That's true. No it's Do you do any photography at school?
[Mollie:] I haven't.
[Noel:] You can do but only in my year.
[Enid:] Can you?
[Noel:] Yeah, fourth year and upwards. In art and design... at lunchtimes and that... and
[Enid:] Yes, it's one of those er, things you do in so, in sort of spare time at
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] school?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Mm, yes.
[speaker005:] In the extra.
[Enid:] That's good because then you'll be able to do your own. Is that er
[Noel:] That's erm... the idea, sort of... bullock farming and that
[Enid:] Oh!
[Noel:] I hope.
[Enid:] My word!
[Noel:] They're all er, that's sort of the marshes.
[Enid:] Really? Mm. Oh yes, all that, and look at that level land and then I would Yeah but down on the marshes, near, near The Wavey Oh yes!
[speaker005:] Well you know when they had all hooha about erm... dig our
[Enid:] Gravel. Gravel pit down there, there's a lot in the
[speaker005:] that's just behind there.
[Enid:] Oh is it?
[speaker005:] And when they had all those trees cut down... erm
[Enid:] Ah!
[speaker005:] that farmer did all those trees.
[Enid:] Oh yes!
[speaker005:] And we had to move all them, there were... a lot of hooha about it in the paper about... what, a year ago?
[Enid:] No, it ain't a year ago.
[speaker005:] I don't think it's... quite a year ago, about the trees.
[Enid:] Really?
[speaker005:] It was over a year ago about the gravel.
[Enid:] Did he do it without permission?
[speaker005:] Yes he just
[Enid:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] uprooted all these old trees and things
[Enid:] Ah!
[Noel:] That was when I was
[Enid:] These are nice!
[Noel:] yeah, I was five then
[Enid:] Ah yes! Mm.
[Noel:] That's
[Enid:] Mm! Ooh these are lovely aren't they?
[Noel:] And that er... he rides his ponies.
[Enid:] Ah yes. Aha. And you, you actually rode along in that did you?
[Noel:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Well I think they're old seaside carts, seem to be
[Enid:] Yep!
[speaker005:] rigged up. And he changed them so that you get, so they're having one... course in and
[Enid:] Yeah, he had two horses.
[speaker005:] he had two, two ponies in there.
[Enid:] Oh I see, yes.
[Noel:] Three.
[speaker005:] Three ponies in there.
[Enid:] Really? That's lovely!
[speaker005:] And one of those ponies, we rescued it didn't we?
[Noel:] Yeah, it's Blackie.
[speaker005:] Blackie.
[Enid:] Really? What happened?
[Noel:] Er well
[Mollie:] But she didn't get... she got ill treated and that... and he didn't... the... erm boy didn't feed him properly so it's all sort of skin and bone... so we went and brought his pony and erm, we sort of fed it up and got it going again.
[Enid:] Really?
[Mollie:] Yeah. So it's still a bit jumpy around us. And erm
[Enid:] Well of course, that's the thing if they're badly treated
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] erm That's her own little pony look.
[speaker005:] Yeah, a miniature. A miniature.
[Enid:] Had a miniature one. Oh really? That's the one whe, in the, in the kitchen it bit my mother's backside one day she thought that was a dog!
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Really? And it's a tubby little thing isn't
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] it? Ah yeah, well that wasn't quite so big as that! No, no!
[speaker005:] That's when it was younger. [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah [].
[speaker005:] She kept saying, get out the way Nellie! Get out the way Nellie!
[Enid:] The way Nellie!
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] And that wasn't Nellie
[Enid:] And it wasn't.
[speaker005:] that was Jimmy! [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Oh it was funny but This is the farm house we were talking about
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Enid:] is it?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Looks lovely! No that's where my mother and sister live that one. Oh I see. But a, they the one who... my sister, ah but that's at Winsdale Oh I see. Mm. That's where they spend, Belinda spends all her holidays down there. Oh you love it do you Belinda?
[Noel:] Yes, yes.
[Enid:] What do you do?
[Noel:] Well I... just look after the ponies and
[speaker005:] Granny.
[Noel:] look after granny and
[speaker005:] Get her dressed.
[Noel:] And get her dressed.
[Enid:] Do you?
[Noel:] Downstairs, yes.
[speaker005:] I go and help my mum sometimes when I go over there.
[Enid:] Do you? Aha. That's
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Enid:] good! That's good! Oh well ye, Belinda if you're the sort of person who can help someone to dress... you're going to be a good nurse I think. I feel she would make a nurse.
[speaker005:] Mm, this... was nurse.
[Enid:] Yes, I was a nurse.
[Noel:] Was you?
[Enid:] Mm! Wonderful life!
[Noel:] Mm.
[Enid:] Really is marvellous, I loved it!
[speaker005:] What erm
[Noel:] Mm.
[speaker005:] did you do, I mean were you erm
[Enid:] General.
[speaker005:] general nurse
[Enid:] Yes.
[speaker005:] were you? Mm.
[Enid:] Mhm. Yes. Oh it's a great life,a, I think anyway.
[speaker005:] No but erm... my sister-in-law's going to do erm
[Noel:] My sister says over there.
[speaker005:] she'd be
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah []!
[speaker005:] job to get out the house for a little while and she usually gets granny up, cos granny have to come down on one of those chairs.
[Enid:] Oh yes!
[speaker005:] And erm... she can't... see enough to be able to do it on her own.
[Enid:] To work it herself.
[speaker005:] So she... usually goes over there
[Enid:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] And then when Suzanne was... she had a lot of trouble carrying her about and she had to be in hospital quite a bit
[Enid:] Mm.
[speaker005:] we looked after her. Erm... they left Belinda in charge of her.
[Enid:] Well how nice!
[speaker005:] And the nights?
[Noel:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Once or twice
[Enid:] Really?
[speaker005:] in the night.
[Noel:] Yeah. Mhm.
[Enid:] How old are you now Belinda?
[Noel:] Fourteen.
[Enid:] Fourteen, yes.
[Noel:] Mhm.
[Enid:] Aha. Well you're quite grown up now really.
[Noel:] Mhm.
[Enid:] Aha. That's... er, wonderful to be able to do that though, a lot of people wouldn't have the patience. That's a lovely one, Ben! Mhm. So you see why he like to get over there cos he got Oh yes!
[Group Of Unknown Speakers:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] I certainly can. How very nice! Yeah. I suppose they're farm cats, they're not made pets?
[speaker005:] Yeah they are made pets.
[Enid:] Oh they're our cats.
[speaker005:] They're our cats, but they
[Enid:] Are they? Oh are they?
[speaker005:] They were
[Enid:] Poisoned.
[speaker005:] poisoned, somebody killed them deliberately!
[Enid:] Oh no!
[speaker005:] They reckon I know something from farm cats that are dying.
[Enid:] Mm.
[speaker005:] Cos I... they... er... but This old lady here
[Enid:] Where is she, in the kitchen?
[speaker005:] his great, she's in the kitchen. great grandmother to these.
[Enid:] Really?
[Noel:] Er yeah
[Enid:] Is she?
[speaker005:] Erm... her mother... or was that the fireman who go up, went up Ringer School.
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker005:] And... he used to go without dinner.
[Enid:] Yeah. Oh yes!
[speaker005:] And when... and when erm... dad got in a Land Rover round field it used to beat them down the field!
[Enid:] Yeah. Ha!
[speaker005:] Go down to the bottom and it does the same to go to the top. But when
[Enid:] But when I come to go back she see me go the Land Rover she's up the top waiting for me! [LAUGHTER] Oh, is that so []?
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] She's up that. Yes! Cats do She didn't come on the road way she went in the field side. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
[speaker005:] Then they're... when they come out... erm and she had two... erm
[Enid:] Mice under each foot, front feet and two in her mouth.
[speaker005:] One in each foot and one in her mou, two in her mouth!
[Enid:] Oh no! Yes, cor she was marvellous!
[speaker005:] She caught
[Enid:] All at once? Like that? Yes!
[speaker005:] She put six in her mouth!
[Enid:] It was as or whatever she put her foot, don't know, don't know if... popular what we feed him cos we don't move when I wa, the time they were put into... bush cos of er No. when you life them up, well of course the... they've seen so many mice, she grabbed two in that... mouth straight away and two... and as they were going up she grabbed [LAUGHTER] Ha []! two in each foot! [LAUGHTER]... Gracious me! Yeah. Phorgh
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] she does move! Oh well of course, it's paradise for mice isn't it Oh yes! that sort of thing? lovely, dry you see. Yes! Yes. And you as... says you can't mess them about you see, cos after I've... and smother so we have Oh I see. be careful what we're doing. Not in big... er, sort of shapes all the time. Oh yes, yes five hundred in a bay. My word!
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Enid:] That's a lot isn't it? You know. Do you still do some of then Len? No, I can't No. do nothing tell you No. the truth. No. I can't put my shoes on! Can't you?
[speaker005:] I have to put his shoes and socks on.
[Enid:] Can't put my socks on! Really? No, I can't ge, that's the closest I can. Is it arthritis? Joints in my back,wha, with walking, carrying too much weight when I was young. Oh I see, yes! And they get... hooked, it acts like a bearing, a ball bearing and they get a little bit on the edge That's right. from carrying too much weight and then they get hooked and they press them down and runs right down this leg. That's right, yes. Ooh sometimes I can't get down the street can I?
[speaker005:] No.
[Enid:] Really?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[speaker005:] Well he don't go down the street so much do
[Enid:] No.
[speaker005:] you?
[Enid:] It's so much Yeah you harder! but how much wiser you are with Mr greed! Ah ah ah! Ah yes, yes! A silly man, I can't understand, cos you used to get in a car now what... I went in the car Sunday, well it the
[speaker005:] That was
[Enid:] devil of a job to get out of it! Was it? Yes. Mm. Well
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Enid:] now he did that with ease, you know. Mm. Mm. What a pity that was!
[speaker005:] And he was driving as well, weren't you?
[Enid:] we used Yes. to drive them back, come in the pub.
[speaker005:] Is he still alive?
[Enid:] Yes. No, he's still alive but he's Yes, he's not going to get better.
[speaker005:] Well, he's more or a less a cabbage though isn't he?
[Enid:] Mm. Yeah, he's not going to get better!.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] A nice old gentleman too! I mean he's a lovely Oh, a real English gentleman Yeah, well I used isn't he? to love him come in the pub, you know what I mean he... nice to talk to and that Yes! Yes. Yeah. But that was a, that's a real tragedy! Mm. Yeah. But er, but once you're older... unless it's a matter Yep! of life and death you're better not going
[speaker005:] No.
[Enid:] to... operation. And he weren't very old when he Oh! start thinking that! [LAUGHTER] How old are you there Ben, do you know?
[Mollie:] Erm
[Enid:] About... about six
[Mollie:] Eight.
[Enid:] about, six, seven, or eight, you can't be no more.
[Mollie:] Seven or eight.
[Enid:] Really? And you're now
[Mollie:] Erm... twelve.
[Enid:] Twelve. Twelve. Yes. Now that was still, that was here in this house Oh yes wasn't it? , yeah.
[Mollie:] Yeah, that was on erm
[speaker005:] That was... across there near the road.
[Mollie:] Across there down the road.
[Enid:] Oh yes!
[speaker005:] The other side of the main path.
[Enid:] Mm. Oh I see! That's a lovely picture! I like that! [LAUGHTER] What were you doing there []?
[speaker005:] Well he had a birthday at the school pool.
[Enid:] Ah, [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] But I'm sure you put more are you?
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] Oh.
[Enid:] What tha, and this is a good way to keep them... isn't it?
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Noel:] They don't smudge then do they then?
[Enid:] You what love?
[Noel:] They don't smudge do they? And they
[Enid:] No, that's right.
[Noel:] and you're talking about... the clear stuff going to all
[Enid:] Mm.
[Noel:] sort
[Enid:] Keeps them clean. Ah yes, that's right.
[Noel:] Mm.
[Enid:] That's a lovely picture with those three... ponies aren't they? Mm. Yes, they're Shetland. Yes i, I thought they were! Yeah. But I'm not clever enough to say... for sure, so I keep my mouth shut. Mm. Yes. [LAUGHTER]... That's a nice one too, they're gorgeous pictures! Now this is the farm now... is it?
[speaker005:] Is that
[Enid:] That's when I were
[speaker005:] .
[Enid:] Ah yes.
[speaker005:] Oh yes. Yes.
[Enid:] Yes.... Oh they're.
[Noel:] Erm, that was black and we used to wash it.
[Enid:] Ah yes. Oh that one really looks as though it's Yes. cuddling. [LAUGHTER] Yes []! Isn't that ni, and this one too! I think Yes. they're actually Cuddling theirselves. They're cuddling each other aren't they?
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] And you come in the middle. [LAUGHTER] Yes []!
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] Here are the ones I took.
[Enid:] They're his fir they're He's, his first... taken picture there.
[speaker005:] Oh yes.
[Enid:] Ooh yes!
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Are they? Mm!
[Mollie:] That was on a video camera.
[Enid:] What he, what else can you do at school as extras besides
[speaker005:] That one.
[Enid:] photography?
[speaker005:] Your first pic
[Mollie:] Erm... we play
[Noel:] And these ones.
[Mollie:] sports, erm
[Enid:] What are they, they?
[Mollie:] Erm
[Enid:] Where do I put them?
[Mollie:] I've been in two er art
[speaker005:] Put them back over there.
[Mollie:] rooms, taught drawing and that... erm... there's a youth club we can go to... and that's got sort of, table tennis and snooker.
[Enid:] Is that in the Shalom Centre?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] I go there every Tuesday for... PT. It's a nice room. I'm one of those old ladies who
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] do [LAUGHTER] PT ev every afternoon!
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] But he he he, you see, he didn't go to them last September. Oh I see. Ah Mm. yes!
[Mollie:] They don't know much of what we can do
[Enid:] That's right.
[Mollie:] there's only a few of these things we know, you know?
[Enid:] And of course, as you get older you'll be able to do more... won't you?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] That's good.
[Mollie:] Erm, they do play some sport, but it's all the older ones that do that. But not many of the seventh years... the year I am
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] don't... got to
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] go out now cos there's more older ones doing it.
[Enid:] And so when you have your... er, your sort of recreation afternoon... what game do you play?
[Mollie:] Er
[Enid:] Or don't you? You play rugby don't you?
[Mollie:] Yeah. We play... lacrosse... hockey and
[speaker005:] Rugby
[Mollie:] erm... and we've just started rugby.
[Enid:] Have you? So you do those
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] already?
[Mollie:] We... sort of take it in turns of doing each sport... with different PE teachers.
[Enid:] I see. Aha. And providing the weather's good, you like it?
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Enid:] Aha.
[Mollie:] But then
[speaker005:] But it's not on there.
[Mollie:] I'll have about erm
[speaker005:] Don't make too much noise will you?
[Mollie:] basketball, netball.
[Enid:] Laying in the kitchen. Basketball's good
[speaker005:] Go and see
[Enid:] but it's easier when you're taller
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] isn't it? You get nearer to the baskets.
[Mollie:] Yeah, and
[Enid:] That's right.
[Mollie:] we, I've had... when we go down, on Thursdays we go to the sports hall sometimes if it's wet... and erm... we're to erm do things the teachers and I... er, have tried a bit of basketball but... I ain't got it into
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Mollie:] the net! [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] No. No. It isn't i, you've got to get the knack... haven't
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] you?
[Mollie:] You've gotta be pretty tall to jump up.
[Enid:] It's easier when you are tall. That's true. But you like tho, the idea of it do you?
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Enid:] Aha. It's not so rough as some things, it's not so rough as rugby but perhaps you don't mind being a bit rough do you?
[Mollie:] No I don't, no.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] They like it rough whe when they're young
[speaker005:] He practised on Helen!
[Enid:] like that! They do! Yes. They do, yes. See more, don't see no fear like we do when they're young. No they don't. That's true.
[Mollie:] That's that's... our cat who just died.
[Enid:] Ah! Oh!
[Mollie:] Do... look here, that's Panda and that was my cat
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Mollie:] and every morning, he's a, jump up on my chair.
[Enid:] Yes. Did he?
[Mollie:] Yeah je, when I was having breakfast he used to jump on the table!
[Enid:] Oh my word! They're used to be one, one of them what got killed used to, he used to ride his bike up and down the path here... and sh, as start, he'd get on his bike, she'd run down to that bush down there and then get there before him and then, soon as he start to come back he was running back and beat him! Really? Yeah, well that's only he went up and down there. They're lovely aren't they when they're li And she'd got when they're intelligent like that? Yeah.
[Mollie:] Yeah. While I'm digging that garden she used to go out roll in the... trench what I'd dug and soon as I went in for a drink she was in there before me!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] She'd beat him in the kitchen!
[Mollie:] And er
[Enid:] I think cats can be lovely! Oh yes.
[Mollie:] We... and i it's, when we had... sprouts it used to get its hind legs and pull them down and start ploughing at them.
[Enid:] Really?
[Mollie:] And then when
[Enid:] And they'd pull the sprouts up
[Mollie:] Yeah, but what about erm what, what it keep doing with your sprouts?
[Enid:] Oh the, sprouts... got you in the bath, went to and er... kitchen to clean the sprouts, chuck them in a bowl... I thought that's funny, I didn't chuck that one in there! Course, I was looking out the window... and I know he took... I picked it out and... it... I looked again, there's another one in there, course she's only getting out the bath put them in a bowl like I was! [LAUGHTER] I can't believe my own eyes! No! And as soon as I went to get sprouts off a garden, she'd be on there, won't she, would?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] She'd pull them off the stalks. Really? Yeah. And just, she was playing ball in other words wasn't she? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah!
[Mollie:] And erm... we made it little to, potatoes and then dig them up what you don't want
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] you could chuck them for her and she used to go after them.
[Enid:] Did she?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Oh how sweet! Was she the one that was killed? Yeah. That's a shame isn't Mm. it? But, was it on this main road? No, she was fine that one was. Oh that's
[Mollie:] No, that's Whisky what was killed on the main road who done that,
[Enid:] Ah, ah Whisky, so was that er, other one what we had.
[Mollie:] Yeah. Milly done it as well.
[Enid:] Yes. Really? Milly, yes. Milly.
[Mollie:] That was her daughter.
[Enid:] Oh I see. I see. And was it on the main road that the one who was killed Yeah, we go had one killed... a school teacher down here killed one of them. When was that? Ain't erm... about three weeks ago weren't it?
[Noel:] Two weeks ago.
[Mollie:] Panda. That was Panda.
[Enid:] Another one killed on the... main road as well. It's heartbreaking!
[speaker005:] Wonder who that was? I know.
[Enid:] We would love to have erm we'd love to have a cat but Yes, well er partly... it's a tie if we're wanting to go out. And i in a way it is
[speaker005:] But not
[Enid:] But also it's er, it's... it's too risky on that road. It is too risky!
[Mollie:] Well it weren't exactly the school teacher's fault cos... Panda jumped out of the hedge into the lights from the cemetery cos she liked to go mousing up there.
[Enid:] Ah, what a shame! And when she come and knocked on the door she was upset more than we was cos she done it didn't Ah she? yes.
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes, well it is upsetting. It's Mm. upsetting
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] to you to lose a cat isn't it?
[Mollie:] Yeah, and it's erm like our other one, she used to go hunting up there and she's across the main road
[speaker005:] No don't worry about it.
[Mollie:] and onto the fields.
[Enid:] Aha.
[Mollie:] But erm... so far Betty, she's alright, she sort of looks and
[Enid:] It's amazing, some cats will get an instinct Yeah, aye that's yeah, yeah. won't they?
[Mollie:] Mm, yeah.
[Enid:] We had one that was very... canny Mm. about the road. But we had one killed on the road too.
[speaker005:] Well we had one
[Enid:] So she
[speaker005:] what used to do the sprouts didn't I?
[Enid:] Yes, Honestly, that's tremendous! That's terribly funny!
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Enid:] That really is.
[speaker005:] Oh she was a character that one!
[Enid:] Was she?
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yeah. Well they all were really, they all had
[Enid:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] their different
[Enid:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] their different characteristics
[Enid:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] cos I mean... Pimple used to erm
[Enid:] used to run and
[speaker005:] have
[Enid:] anywhere.
[speaker005:] see Len come along, used to run... and jump up at, onto his shoulder and... go round the garden shoulders!
[Enid:] Really? Yes.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Oh he and coming up that passage, run and jump right up on me by getting up my shirt.
[Noel:] Well when Panda, when you were peeling potatoes she sort of lying on your back when you was bending there like that.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah that's it []! [LAUGHTER] Yes []! A good place to be!
[Noel:] Yeah.
[Enid:] I I like cats better than dogs because Yes. I think... dogs want a fuss made of them, cats don't really. No, no no The, there's a way of they don't like, they don't like
[speaker005:] They're independent.
[Enid:] a lot of fuss.
[speaker005:] No.
[Enid:] They're much more independent.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Mollie:] Apparently, she sort of lays on that hearth... right, and right in front of the fire and their... two feet sort of on guard sitting, and his down like that.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Feeling the fire.
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Yes []!
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Let's see how you've been getting on. Do you get at school any erm... any sort of music lessons?
[Mollie:] Erm... yes. On Thursdays I go to music lesson... and erm, we have this singing contest... erm, we come second out of the... first years, and we sung Mole in a Hole.
[Enid:] Good!
[Mollie:] Erm... at dinner times you can go into the music room... erm... you can play on any music instrument you like... there's... keyboards... erm, violins... guitars erm... drums. I tried to play on the drums, I'm not too good at that.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] They make a terrible noise don't they []?
[Mollie:] Yeah. Erm... Only trouble, there's a snare drum... you can turn it onto snare or ordinary but when you have it on snare, if you play or anything it rattles!
[Enid:] Is it erm, is a snare the thing that co, the sort of wire that goes across it?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] And what does that do?
[Mollie:] Erm, well... it makes erm... a lighter so, makes the drum sound to a lot of... lighter sounds.
[Enid:] Oh I see.
[Mollie:] But erm, when you play music and you keep it on snare the wires keep rattling.
[Enid:] Ah yes.
[Mollie:] So, you have to erm... pull this... erm, little lever at the side... and that... that'll... turn the snare bit off... they can play on there... erm... there's... the choir, erm
[Enid:] Are you in the choir?
[Mollie:] Erm, no I don't know much about it yet, we haven't... I've only just... been told about it by a friend who I sit next to on the bus.
[Enid:] You've only been there... I think a ba, a term haven't you?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] So tha, yes. Mhm.
[Mollie:] So we don't know much about it yet, but on Thursdays we... get, we've got taught how to play... erm... a keyboard and been taught a little bit about reading music. But
[Enid:] Good!
[Mollie:] erm, I can't read it too well cos I've only had about... couple of lessons on it.
[Enid:] Yes. It needs practice doesn't it?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Of course, being in the choir it gives you practice reading music... because you just have one line to follow
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] and that's a good start isn't it? Aha
[Mollie:] I have heard erm... some choir, the choir sing a little bit... cos erm... we got a corridor near the... music hall... and erm... they sing up pretty loud so you can hear it. Cos there's erm... er... machine in there... what you can get erm fo food from right, so I go down there sometimes
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] get something out the machine and listen to the... music in there.
[Enid:] Nice! Good! I think it's a good school don't you?
[Mollie:] Yeah, it's pretty good... but erm... the older ones think they run it a bit!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] But, there's, some of them are alright. I got some... erm... friends up there who are in fourth and fifth year
[Enid:] Mm!
[Mollie:] so and they... then erm... I have got... some friends I used to know as... the little school but they've left now.
[Enid:] Oh!
[Mollie:] Erm, they just went on to their fifth form
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] so... don't see them around much.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Erm... I know a boy... erm... Rickie who just lives up our road
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] erm... ho, I know him so I go and see him sometimes.
[Enid:] That's good! Mhm.
[Mollie:] But I don't see him that much because he go and play sports... on the
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] field.
[Enid:] Yes. And then they're just not available to play... at home... th those
[Mollie:] No.
[Enid:] times. No, that's right. You always find wherever you are that the people who've been there a long time... get sort of erm... a bit uppity, they think that they're
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] the bosses of everything. But of course, one of these days you'll be at the top of the school [LAUGHTER] won't
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Enid:] you []!
[Mollie:] A lot of erm... them, cos erm... we're up, we're in the upper sort of thing, we're in the upstairs... in a form room, so when we walk downstairs to erm... down to a lesson... they come barging up there and pushing out of the way!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] And that's the only trouble about it.
[Enid:] That's not very nice when you're a bit smaller than they are.
[Mollie:] No.
[Enid:] Aha.
[Mollie:] Erm... they... try and erm... erm... sort of push you out the way and tell you to get lost!
[Enid:] Yes. Yes.
[Mollie:] But erm
[Enid:] Well when you're big, that's the thing to remember and you won't push
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] the little ones around perhaps
[Mollie:] No.
[Enid:] will you?
[Mollie:] I got to, when I was going to the little school I got told the little ones.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] But they erm... I was used to it, used to it cos erm
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] I got a lot of... little cousins and that
[Enid:] Oh of course, yes! So you know what it's like being small
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] too. And what about all this gardening then? I was very interested when you were talking about gardening this morning. Erm
[Mollie:] Well
[Enid:] you don't do any gardening, I suppose at school?
[Mollie:] Erm, no, I wish we could have a garden, sort of thing, like we mi, where... mum used to go and have a garden but it don't
[Enid:] Mm mm.
[Mollie:] now.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Erm
[Enid:] But still, you don't need... a a garden at school, you've got the, really the whole of that garden at home.
[Mollie:] Yeah, so
[Enid:] Because your father can't do much now can he?
[Mollie:] Erm no, he does help me a few things but... I do all the digging for him because he can't bend down too much.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] Erm... I told him he ought to get erm, one of these... rotovators and a plough underneath
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] Ah ha ha []!
[Mollie:] but he said it's too much money cos they're
[Enid:] Yes. Yes.
[Mollie:] a few thousand pound now.
[Enid:] I suppose so! And really and truly you've got to have a very big piece of ground to need one of those haven't you?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] I think you're a very good... forker and spader really!
[Mollie:] Yeah, ah well... erm... when I was younger I used to watch dad... so when he put his seeds out I used to erm get the erm... erm... erm, spade and sort of keep digging them up,se seeds up
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] so I got, I got to know how to use them by then... then... then erm... while I've got older dad got another piece of ground what he's given up now
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Mollie:] erm... he, we used to go up there.
[Enid:] Where was that... er
[Mollie:] Erm
[Enid:] Ben?
[Mollie:] up our road and... very first house, number one, he had a big bit of garden
[Enid:] Oh I see.
[Mollie:] erm... but... after a few months dad gave it up cos it was... erm... too... wet and that where weeds could grow easily
[Enid:] Ah yes.
[Mollie:] and we keeps erm... digging it up and... weeds keep growing.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] We had potatoes in there for a time but we had to keep hoeing all the weeds out.
[Enid:] No, and of course the weeds will have a
[Mollie:] Yeah, they
[Enid:] a fine old time won't they?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Aha. But your ground, I... imagine you've kept it fairly cre, free of weeds... for quite a
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] time now?
[Mollie:] Erm... on our... some of our small plants... we don't use any erm... sprays or
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] we use erm... a rake... or a and we draw across the seeds and... that'll... ra, bring out the weeds.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] I done that... on my wheat this afternoon... erm... but we have to use fertiliser on ours cos
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] we don't have to sort of, ain't gotta take really too much muck
[Enid:] Mm. Yes.
[Mollie:] cos we do... half, we muck erm... I've grown pretty well
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] so it gives the plants a boost
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] so we don't have too much muck so, and like... put some fertiliser on the other bits.
[Enid:] I see. Because, in fact, you can't put that compost... on the, or that muck on the, when you say muck, do you mean the compost that you make with the vegetables?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes. Erm, you can't put that on till it's really broken down can you?
[Mollie:] No.
[Enid:] So it's erm... you use up probably quite quickly what you've got.
[Mollie:] Yes, erm... all our... sort of cabbage stalks and... beans stalks go onto... the muck heap... to turn into a sort of compost, but... other people they just sort of burn or take them away and buy a bag of compost.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] But erm... bought bags of compost aren't so good... cos if you use all er, stuff you're growing you put erm... it back onto the ground
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Mollie:] what's come off the ground.
[Enid:] Mm, yes. Yes, it seems reasonable doesn't it, to put it all back? It's all been natural stuff hasn't it?
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Enid:] Aha. Which bit of the gardening do you like best?
[Mollie:] Well erm... the best bit, I like harvesting, I don't like... the digging is alright but it hurt your back so
[Enid:] Yes. You get... yo wo once you've done a lot you suddenly
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] feel it don't you? But the hoeing is nice and easy
[Mollie:] Yeah, okay.
[Enid:] more or less. Mm.
[Mollie:] We got erm... various sorts of hoes. We got a Dutch hoe, that's
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] pretty easy to use.
[Enid:] Nice!
[Mollie:] And erm, we got another hoe... oh er, I don't like using it cos it's got wood and it keeps giving me splinters!
[Enid:] It's got, oh really, that's the handle is it, that does
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] that?
[Noel:] Hiya Ben!
[Enid:] Ho
[Mollie:] Hello. Hello.
[Enid:] We've got a hoe that... what is that hoe called, that we've got Noel? It's... got these prongs that go like that.
[Noel:] Oh, what's
[Mollie:] Erm
[Noel:] that for?
[Mollie:] Oh yeah, I've got one of them.
[Enid:] Have you got one of them? Because they get, the weeds out quite deeply don't they?
[Noel:] Er, oh yes.
[Mollie:] Erm, I got two of them.
[Enid:] Mm!
[Mollie:] I bought one... erm... I think it was a year or two back... then our next door neighbour di, well... no, it was before she died, she gave me one.
[Enid:] Nice! Mhm.
[Mollie:] So I got... quite a lot of old tools, really old ones
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] dad's got... loads of old ones, what he use
[Enid:] Has he?
[Mollie:] I like them better than the modern ones.
[Enid:] Do you? Yes th, there's something nice about the old tools isn't there?
[Mollie:] Yes, cos they
[Noel:] We've got one hoe that's at least two hundred years old!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Noel:] Yeah, yeah. And we've, but only found the... middle part
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Noel:] and I had it... sharpened by Hector
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Noel:] and now it's as good as new! You can see it afterwards.
[Mollie:] Yes, where erm... my next neighbour gave me... some stuff erm, then I went into her shed cos she had... erm, some mice problems so dad went in there to... have a look round, seeing the poison were... wore off and we found... quite a lot of old gardening chu, tools.
[Enid:] Ooh did you?
[Mollie:] Cos erm... her husband was a farmer we found a lot of old... really old ploughshares... like
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] that.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] I found an old plough wheel, I still got that at home. I like keep... an antique stuff like that.
[Enid:] Oh yes, it's interesting! Aha.
[Mollie:] Erm... and, she had some... erm... chicken ho er, [cough]... hoppers that erm... she had
[Enid:] Chicken hoppers?
[Mollie:] Yes, erm... used to put, you put feed in them
[Enid:] Oh yes.
[Mollie:] and they soon get erm... but they had plastic ones and they have lights on them.
[Enid:] Really?
[Mollie:] Yeah, but they smell!
[Enid:] Oh, do they?
[Mollie:] Yeah, erm... when we're up the farm... when er, after a few days we put the feed in them they smell.
[Enid:] Oh that's not nice is it?
[Mollie:] No, cos all the... plastic sort of
[Enid:] Yes, that's because they've got a light on them isn't it?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes some erm... some light, electric light fittings are made of plastic and they like bad fish... after
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] a time don't they? It's horrid!
[Mollie:] Yeah, erm when we... went in there for a few times used to get headaches and that.
[Enid:] Yes, nasty!
[Mollie:] Yeah, but the weather was cold, when cold that er, it took away some of the smell
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Mollie:] but as they got muddier it... worsened.
[Enid:] Yes. I in the end it gets yuck!
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] Erm... the really old sheds they're better than the new ones that
[Enid:] Yes. Mm.
[Mollie:] erm... they er, they're cool in the... summer and warm in the winter.
[Enid:] Mm. Mm.
[Mollie:] For that... stuff.
[Enid:] That's an advantage?
[Mollie:] Yeah. I've erm... dad had a lot of old gardening to, tools up in er... his shed when... he was up but... when we... when dad retired he was going to erm... take them, but he forgot about them
[Enid:] Ah!
[Mollie:] and they left them up there.
[Enid:] Oh dear!
[Mollie:] So, I don't know wha, we, he did get some... but erm... a lot of them... he wished he'd brought
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] and left the other ones.
[Enid:] Oh dear! He brought the wrong ones he thought! Oh that's
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] hard-liners isn't it?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]... And where do you keep all this stuff? You haven't got a shed have you, in the back?
[Mollie:] We got... two, one was an old erm... air dru, no... one of them erm, bomb shelter type things
[Enid:] Oh yes, Anderson shelter!
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] And er... we had a wooden shed... it blew down in a gale so... my Nana, she bought us a shed
[Enid:] Oh!
[Mollie:] for a present.
[Enid:] Oh that's nice!
[Mollie:] So we put that up. We keep some tools in it. We put our cat in there cos she like going in there... and we have some ta, we put seed and that down there. Our other sh shed we put all the tools and
[Enid:] Yes. To keep them out of the weather. You've just got to have somewhere to put them haven't you?
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Enid:] Aha.
[Mollie:] Cos erm... well if you leave them lying about they'll rust easily.
[Enid:] Yes. Now that's quite true. Well you're quite an experienced gardener, it seems to me Ben! You must of learned a lot from your father by now?
[Mollie:] Yes, erm... I... get erm... some mags, ah erm... gardening magazines and I look at them.
[Enid:] Oh yes, that's useful! Mhm.
[Mollie:] Erm, dad tells me a lot about it cos he... started gardening when he was young.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] He got a lot... taught a lot off granddad.
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Mollie:] Erm, so it sort of originated in our family.
[Enid:] That's right, a family thing, you hand it down from generation to generation
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Enid:] don't you? And the books of, are useful because there are lots of new ideas have come up
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Enid:] as you go along.
[Mollie:] Erm... er... mum gets some for me on Wednesdays sometimes, when she goes to Framlingham. There's various ones I read... I had one from... the library, it was a big one
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Mollie:] erm... I was reading about carrots, so I didn't get to finish it cos we only had two weeks. Erm... little window box ones.
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Mollie:] Er, what you grow in a window boxes. The little
[Enid:] Mm mm.
[Mollie:] erm... short ones, and they're sweet.
[Enid:] Yes. Carrots?
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes, some of them are nearly round
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] they're so small!
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Enid:] Aren't they? Tha look, they look funny to me! [LAUGHTER]
[Mollie:] And when I... erm, first got them... cos my granny got me... some for a birthday present
[Enid:] Aha.
[Mollie:] erm... when we've dug them up I... I didn't think they looked like carrots until we had
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] them.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]... That's right they, and they must be a bit fiddly to peel mustn't they? To scrape, rather.
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Instead of a nice long scrape, you've got to go round corners haven't you?
[Mollie:] Yeah I keep, when I... I I always scrape the vegetables sometimes but when I do though I keep cutting my fingers!
[Enid:] Ugh, yes, yes!
[Mollie:] So I gave them to dad to do.
[Enid:] Ha! What's the idea of those little carrots?
[Mollie:] I don't know. Er... erm, there's only been... last year that I've grown them
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] so I don't know much about them yet.
[Enid:] Did you like the taste of them?
[Mollie:] Yes they're, they're nice and sweet.
[Enid:] Are they? Mm.
[Mollie:] Erm... other carrots, erm they don't grow that well, I don't think so anyway.
[Enid:] No. Well there's so many things that get into carrots aren't there? There's a wa, a wire worm or something?
[Mollie:] Yes erm
[Enid:] And carrot fly. Is carrot fly the thing that goes for carrots or not?
[Mollie:] Erm, yes... tha, that will come in really bad!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Slugs, erm... they'll
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] go after carrots and potatoes.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] Erm... one year we got no end of slugs! Erm... leatherjackets, they're bad for them.
[Enid:] Oh yes! Mm.
[Mollie:] Erm... so when you sort of dig the ground up you have to chuck them out the way.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] Cos they'll, they'll work their way back in.
[Enid:] I'm sure.
[Mollie:] Start eating the... plants and that.
[Enid:] The plants. Yes. Yes. That's why I say... nature works against you instead of with you.
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]... So I don't bother!
[Noel:] Don't you put any lime on them?
[Mollie:] Erm... well... we have tried it once... erm but... we put soot on them because they'll so
[Enid:] Yes, soot is supposed to be good for something. Yes.
[Mollie:] Erm, that will sa, that will stick to them and erm... they will... that will make them... feel ill so they
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] die.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Mollie:] And erm, soot's good for the ground.
[Enid:] I see.
[Mollie:] Dad used to put erm... a lot on it... but we had to have erm... the chimney sweep at ours for... quite a long time
[Enid:] No.
[Mollie:] and he hadn't got any.
[Enid:] You'll have to get some more soot. You'll have to get him along and you can have some more soot.
[Mollie:] Yes.
[Enid:] I've forgotten what they used to use so soot especially. My father used it, but I've forgotten what it was.
[Noel:] Never use it on vegetables, around vegetables to stop... insects creeping too.
[Enid:] Does it?
[Noel:] It'll stop them from... crawling across,
[Enid:] They don't like it?
[Noel:] just under the surface, they couldn't get.
[Enid:] No. No. Aha. There are so many... things you've got to be looking out for in those
[Mollie:] Yes, erm... I read up quite a lot of things about... keeping pests away, but I don't... dad reads them... and tells me about them, but I forget cos they have to go back
[Enid:] That's right.
[Mollie:] after so often.
[Enid:] Yes. Let's see what we've got there. Ben would like to go to... Otley to do a proper training course.
[Noel:] That's a very good idea Ben.
[Enid:] Yes. Yes. And so... you're going to work at the things that will get you in there aren't you?
[Mollie:] Yeah, so I... will do... quite a lot of erm, stuff erm... I should say in geography, sort of work in geography for that things. Erm... we done a little but we hadn't done that much yet, but my sister tells me... as we go, as the year go on and do a bit more about it.
[Enid:] Mm. You learn about soil formations and that sort
[Mollie:] Yeah.
[Enid:] of thing. Yes.
[Noel:] How old are Ben?
[Enid:] Sorry?
[Noel:] How old are you Ben?
[Mollie:] I'm twelve.
[Noel:] Twelve.
[Enid:] Mhm. Mm. He's a wonderful gardener... for twelve, I can tell you!
[Noel:] Good!
[Enid:] Ha ha.
[Mollie:] Erm... and
[Enid:] And what else would help you to get into Otley? I suppose you've got to be able to do... maths for most things haven't you?
[Mollie:] Yes, erm... and when you go to Otley College... they will... teach you everything, so you need maths, or this erm...
[Enid:] Yes for measuring an an... yes.
[Mollie:] Yes erm... I'm not looking forward to doing the cos they've told me about it and he used to get headaches and
[Enid:] Really? Well I think that you wear masks now don't you, when you use it?
[Mollie:] Erm, yes, erm... if you haven't got a tractor you have to, but if you've got you don't have to so much.
[Enid:] I see.
[Mollie:] But erm... if I, when I go to a farm I don't want spray.
[Enid:] No? Well it would, not very good for you would it really, because of your
[Mollie:] No.
[Enid:] chest?
[Mollie:] Mm.
[Enid:] Yes. Aha.
[Mollie:] Erm... I don't mind fertiliser, that's okay.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Mollie:] And... but
[Enid:] What we were talking about, or what I think is interesting is... your experience from your early days in horse shoeing... has stood you in good stead for the revival of interest in driving... erm... if you'd like to tell us a bit more about that I'd love to hear it cos I'm never tired of that.
[Ann:] Yeah well er... the shoeing today is... completely different to what it was when I started... nearly sixty year ago. In them days... horses were... they were all working hors, driving horses... you hardly ever see a riding horse. Er... the ones they did ride were the ones they used to drive at erm ah, down the two jars... but er... and that was a completely different... way of life then... to what that is now. Er
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] er the horses that are shod today, you see they all... riding horses, no... very few working horses.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Er... but now the
[Enid:] It's, and that's your hobby isn't it?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Er... where before that was... the horse... was equivalent for a motor today.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] So that was a living.
[John:] It did the
[Ann:] Er
[John:] job of a tractor, it did the job a van... a lorry
[Ann:] Lorry.
[John:] a car, everything!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Ah, every form of transport
[Ann:] Transport.
[John:] when you think about it.
[Enid:] Yes. Mhm. And is it
[Ann:] But now
[Enid:] different type of horse that makes it different for shodding
[Ann:] Oh yes!
[Enid:] today?
[Ann:] Oh yeah!
[Enid:] Not the question of the same horses doing a different job.
[Ann:] No, that's a different type of horse er
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] er, the old fashioned working horses... er... practically extinct.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] And the shires are still there fairly strong, still... er... some of course has now gone onto the... rare breeds.
[Enid:] Mm!
[Ann:] Er... registered you see. Er... Welsh colts... and... things of that nature are coming back a bit now, they are... building up now... er... but
[John:] But would I be right in saying that... the everyday working horse, the sort of, general purpose working horse that people used years ago, people such as carriers, they would use horses which were crossbreeds wouldn't they? Not
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] not a purebred anything.
[Ann:] Not a pure, no!
[John:] They'd be good old heavy, honest, rough
[Ann:] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[John:] hard working horses.
[Ann:] That's right.
[John:] Not things of beauty really at all.
[Ann:] No. No, ooh no, no!
[John:] And you hardly ever see that type now do you? Gypsies
[Ann:] No.
[John:] have them. You still
[Enid:] They were
[John:] see gypsies with that sort.
[Enid:] built for strength
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] for the
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] jobs.
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] Work.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] Were they?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Purely for
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] work and hardiness.
[Ann:] And they're ornaments today, they aren't working horses.
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ann:] You put these horses into hard work today they'd be dead within three months!
[Enid:] Would they?
[Ann:] Ooh yes! Yeah!
[John:] Yes, the whole scene has altered. And er, as I say, observing this and watching Hector's work and how things have gone on over the years, er as you know, there's been a tremendous revival of interest in driving, so many people... have er, restored carts or had new ones built... and erm... the young farriers who've never had the experience with driving horses, they have run into problems with erm, keeping them going soundly and overcoming problems which crop up when horses are driven on the road a lot.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[John:] Would you like to tell us a bit more about that?
[Ann:] Well, yeah that is, I'm I mean that's a completely different... er er laxing of the, it's completely different. Er... when you're riding a horse, you see the weight is all on the back... er... whichever tendency... do and what we call the gait... er
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] is the hind legs in the front
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] they have a tendency to open them... make them wider apart
[Enid:] Oh yes!
[Ann:] by the backs.
[Enid:] G A I T.
[John:] That's right, that kind of gait.
[Ann:] By the back and swop them you see. Well... er, with a driving horse that's completely opposite because yo... your vehicle behind the horse... is pushing... against it
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] and have a tendency to... punt the back
[Enid:] Really?
[Ann:] so that pushes the... legs fo... closer together, do you see?
[Enid:] Good heavens!
[John:] They're more likely to
[Ann:] And then they're more likely to hit, they're more likely to hit
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] the... front legs with the back legs
[Enid:] Really!
[Ann:] when they're going, especially going down hill.
[John:] And of course, there's a word in the trade for that isn't there?
[Ann:] Yeah. Forging.
[Enid:] What is it?
[John:] It's what, now there's a
[Enid:] Forging?
[John:] completely
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] different use for the word forging.
[Enid:] Now, is it related to forging ahead... in any way? Oh do, is that where forging ahead comes
[John:] I
[Enid:] from? When you're really pushing?
[Ann:] Yeah, yeah, pushing.
[John:] It might well be. It might
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] well be. I would say the term
[Ann:] And, and then they can
[John:] forging ahead has come from... the use of that word in relation to horses.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yes.
[John:] I would say, because that
[Ann:] Yeah, probably.
[John:] dates back many, many years doesn't
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] it?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes. Because they
[Ann:] That's it.
[John:] do do it when they're pushing ahead
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] they, they hit the front foot with the hind one.
[Enid:] Good Lord!
[John:] Occasionally you
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] hear them do it
[Enid:] Oh!
[John:] when they're driving, it's quite a sharp
[Ann:] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[John:] crack you
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] hear.
[Enid:] It's amazing!
[Ann:] Mm.
[John:] Er... so that's, that's completely different do you see? So the styling of shoeing... is different.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] Completely different.
[John:] If they do it too much then the farrier's not doing a good job
[Ann:] Job.
[John:] and his job
[Enid:] Really?
[John:] is to re-balance the shoe so that er, it just misses
[Ann:] Miss.
[John:] the front foot as it comes forward. If the
[Enid:] Right.
[John:] if the horse is travelling fast on the road he's at the trot, I mean it isn't
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] the done thing for driving horses to canter or gallop on the road, they never ever should.
[Enid:] No.
[John:] Erm, but at the trot, when th the the legs are moving the diagonals are moving so of course the front and the hind foot come very close together
[Enid:] Ah that's it!
[John:] at one point in the gait
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] and if the
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] shoe is slightly wrongly balanced, or the foot is slightly wrongly trimmed, then you get these troubles, you
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] also get what we call, brushing don't you?
[Ann:] Brushing. When they
[John:] Tell Edith about that.
[Ann:] when they hit both legs together... like the hind legs when they... they'll hit each other they'll hit one hind leg
[John:] They really, they
[Ann:] with other one you see.
[John:] They really
[Enid:] Ooh!
[John:] wear
[Ann:] They give it a.
[John:] a a a sore place
[Enid:] Ooh yes!
[John:] on the
[Ann:] Yes.
[Enid:] Like us banging our ankles like that.
[Ann:] That's it.
[John:] Yes. Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] They do it on what we call the coronet
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] which is of course the little... junction between the skin and the hair.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Ooh!
[John:] Very tender place. It's like the quick of our nail
[Enid:] Ooh yes!
[John:] where the
[Enid:] I can imagine!
[John:] tissue grows from. And they do
[Ann:] And on the front
[John:] damage their coronet.
[Ann:] On the front one they do it on the knee which is the... er... do you see, which is higher up.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] But the knee comes sort of out
[Ann:] Out.
[Enid:] doesn't it? Er inside
[Ann:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Enid:] there's a
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] nobble
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] on the, yes.
[Ann:] Yeah, yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah so, and that's what they call cutting.
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] Really?
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] You'd never dream! And so people who go and, usually into horses... need to know all these or else they're going to be very unfair to the horse.
[Ann:] Well er
[John:] They should know about it!
[Ann:] They should know it.
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] They should know it. But er
[John:] But it, mainly it's the farrier's job to know.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] But course, they don't er
[John:] It's his responsibility.
[Ann:] they don't do enough work to really... create any problems today, do you see what they're to do... somebody will say ooh we'll go out for a ride
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] they're out, half an hour?
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Hey? We'll go out for a drive... probably out an hour, whereas years ago the horse used to come out the stable at seven in the morning... he wouldn't go back till probably five at night.
[Enid:] Course!
[Ann:] Probably later than that!
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Ann:] He'd go... the driving horses, they'd probably go to Wickham market Monday... do you see, the sale on the Monday... they'd go to Ipswich on the Tuesday... er... Wednesday they'd go to Bury... er... and Ailsworth
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] And they really earned their
[Ann:] Then they'd go to Norwich.
[John:] keep!
[Enid:] Full time job!
[John:] Ooh they worked hard!
[Ann:] And then they'd go to Norwich on the Saturday.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] I mean they'd, they'd, they'd be doing probably... anything up to forty mile a day weren't they?
[Enid:] Would be. Yeah.
[Ann:] Yes. And I mean, that was six days a week!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] But now they do... er... twenty minutes they think they'd have done wonders!
[John:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] [LAUGHTER] Or go from pub to pubs
[Ann:] You know.
[John:] that's about it []!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] And you think of these, for instance Prince
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Phillip, who is
[John:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Enid:] presumably those horses don't do long spells of that sort
[Ann:] No.
[Enid:] of driving?
[Ann:] No. No.
[Enid:] They'll be exercised in other ways I imagine will they?
[Ann:] Exercised, yeah, they're exercised, normal exercise during the week and then... when they do these events do you see? But of course, if you go back far enough do you see... on these four in hands were... were going from town to town weren't they? I mean, they were... they were mail originally weren't they?
[Enid:] On the stage coaches, yes.
[John:] Mhm.
[Ann:] Stage coaches
[John:] Mhm.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Er... on the horses... that's understandable, they can start off and probably don't knock theirself... but there's a time they'd done twenty or thirty mile pulling a load.
[John:] They're tired,
[Ann:] They're tired
[John:] Mhm.
[Ann:] er, and then they start... and that's when the trouble starts.
[Enid:] Just as we do, walking a bit less
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] carefully.
[Ann:] Yeah. Yeah.
[John:] Yes. Yes, the same
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] thing applies.
[Enid:] Mm!
[John:] Exactly!
[Enid:] Mm!
[John:] And
[Enid:] What about... er, in those days... er, possibly a few still, when erm... let's, you said gypsies didn't you?
[Ann:] Mm.
[Enid:] or let's say just erm... odd tradesmen had... a horse or a pony or whatever it was... pulling a cart... round the streets with vegetables or with, with er coal
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] or something... what about the... amount of... care they would get from a farrier, those horses?
[Ann:] Well they... they got reasonable care because, like I said, that was, that was the... the owner knew that er... that was his livelihood then
[Enid:] That's the thing I suppose, yes.
[Ann:] and he treated his horse... well I mean a lot of these horseman, good horseman... treated the horse better than they did the wife!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] I wouldn't be surprised about that []!
[Ann:] Ooh yes!
[Enid:] Living in the East
[Ann:] Yes.
[Enid:] End, I wouldn't be surprised
[Ann:] Mm mm.
[Enid:] at that!
[Ann:] Oh yes! Er... and they thought of, I mean they thought the world of their... their animals and... but
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] er... when... you were in the trade like... mine... if you didn't do a good job... the man never come back to you, there was a, there was a blacksmith farrier in every village!
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Some villages had two
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Ann:] And if you didn't do the job properly you didn't get the job and if you didn't get the job you went hungry!
[Enid:] Course!
[Ann:] So that er... that made you do it properly!
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Yes, they were a
[Ann:] And there was no... there was no... if you hadn't... earned a shilling... you'd got nothing to eat had you?
[Enid:] That's right. Necessity being a good driver.
[John:] Absolutely!
[Ann:] Well, yeah! Yeah.
[John:] Erm, Hector often quotes one particular instance which illustrates that very well... er... a as recently as your time, after you were er er shoeing
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] in your own business and everything, er people often say what did you used to charge? And it was six and eight pence for a set of shoes on a
[Ann:] Six and eight pence, yes.
[John:] heavy horse, a land horse... such as a Suffolk, as most of them were, erm... but... times were so tight that there was a farmer who used to send his horse with his horseman right past here and go another mile down the road to, to the next village to Kettleborough where there was ano, there were two farriers there
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] and one of them was doing them a halfpenny cheaper!
[Enid:] Ooh!
[John:] Six and seven pence halfpenny.
[Ann:] Halfpenny
[John:] And the farmer thought that it would
[Ann:] [cough] Payed him to do it.
[John:] to send them an extra mile each way and the extra
[Enid:] Really!
[John:] time that took... to get them shod a halfpenny cheaper! And things were as tight as that!
[Enid:] As tight as that?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] Mm.
[John:] So
[Enid:] I suppose, now would, could that possibly be called a false economy? What was he using up
[John:] It probably was.
[Enid:] time?
[Ann:] Well if that was, I meant... that would be today
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] but er... in them days there was no such thing as... false economy, I'd and I, economy didn't come into it
[John:] No.
[Ann:] else he'd of... I mean
[John:] No.
[Ann:] er
[John:] People didn't set the same... cost value on time as they
[Ann:] Time.
[Enid:] I was going to say, time
[John:] do now.
[Enid:] didn't count in the same
[Ann:] No and er
[John:] It really didn't seem to
[Enid:] No.
[John:] it's very funny that!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] If you're... if you hadn't earned the money well... you didn't go into it in detail and... get the time and motion study man
[Enid:] No.
[Ann:] in to look at the job did you? Just thought
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ann:] well... we'd better pull ourselves together and see if we can put this right!
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ann:] Er... you never really went into it to see where you had lost the money.
[Enid:] No. No.
[Ann:] Er... but you just grabbed a little harder so that you made ends meet
[Enid:] That's right. By the result you
[Ann:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Enid:] would see that you had to work a bit
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] harder and
[Ann:] There was no... no working out to see how you could do anything cheaper.
[Enid:] No. No.
[Ann:] No.
[Enid:] Aha.
[John:] But any economy that was made... or in the early days of Hector's er... business, I know, was always saving material rather than time.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Erm... and the instinct remains doesn't it?
[Ann:] Oh yeah!
[John:] Your your instinct is to save
[Ann:] a bit harder.
[John:] an odd bit of se steel or iron off a bar which the modern man would say well there's no point in saving that because by the
[Enid:] That's right.
[John:] time you've looked
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] for it and found it when you want it... er, it would have paid you to cut a bit off a new bar.
[Enid:] That's it. Time costing as much
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] as it now does.
[John:] Time now
[Ann:] Yeah, that's right.
[John:] is er, is the main driving thing but... in your early days it was material every time.
[Ann:] Oh material every time!
[John:] Erm... tell Edith
[Ann:] Labour
[John:] about some of the er er oh normal economies that were made, like, erm making odd links
[Ann:] Well, oh well the horse
[John:] into staples and all that sort of thing.
[Ann:] well the horse shoes you see, we used to... we used to weld... one and a half... old horse shoes together in the fire... to make one new one again.
[Enid:] Really?
[Ann:] Ooh yes! They weren't thrown
[Enid:] One turned the other way on top
[Ann:] We
[Enid:] of the other?
[Ann:] used to... get one shoe and a... ta, in the middle so that, so that cut the... half new one
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] turn it over on itself... then the other one we used to half
[Enid:] Oh!
[Ann:] and put the other... piece in between the two and make a sandwich
[Enid:] Golly yes!
[Ann:] so you'd got a piece that shape, half... new one
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] and that was all welded together in the fire... into a straight bar
[John:] And then you'd start all over again!
[Ann:] and then you'd start all over again!
[Enid:] Oh I see. You didn't use
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] that as a shoe... you then
[John:] Re
[Enid:] made it an a new
[John:] Re-shape it.
[Enid:] piece of metal?
[Ann:] Yes. And then
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] yeah, and then re... re-used it to shoe.
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] Made another shoe out of a
[Enid:] That's right
[Ann:] er
[Enid:] yes.
[John:] And that was a genuine economy then.
[Ann:] Oh yeah! Yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes. Yes.
[Ann:] Er
[John:] Erm
[Ann:] old cart tyres we used to split them up the middle and made shoes.
[Enid:] Did you?
[Ann:] Oh yes! Er
[Enid:] Because they were made of the right kind of iron?
[Ann:] Yeah. Er
[John:] And erm
[Ann:] you see, we used to... when old shoes do you see, you could only use them... a certain number of times by... welding them up
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] er... after they got so you... hadn't got no more life in them we used to... weld short bits onto....
[Enid:] Really?
[John:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Still all done in the fire.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Wired?
[Ann:] Old chains
[John:] And
[Ann:] when they wore thin on the end... and we had to put a new link in... we never threw the two halves of the link away, we pointed them and made them into staples.
[Enid:] Really?
[Ann:] Because the middle part of the link wasn't worn you see, that was still a good bit of metal in it.
[Enid:] Yes, course.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Isn't it... tragic to think how far from that we've moved?
[John:] Yes, it is really.
[Ann:] Yeah, mm.
[John:] Yes, it's
[Enid:] And it's so wasteful u
[John:] it's all throw away
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] now isn't it?
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] It seems morally wrong.
[Enid:] It hurts us
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] who've known
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] the other thing doesn't it?
[John:] Yes it does!
[Ann:] Yeah, yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[John:] It goes against the grain terribly!
[Ann:] And I am... if at five minutes to five, or five minutes to leaving off time... whatever it was... and you wouldn't say well... we'll get ready to go home... you had to pick a half a link up... make it into a staple and throw it in the box.
[Enid:] Yes. That was ready for next time and you've saved
[Ann:] That was ready for when... Yeah.
[Enid:] that time.
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] I forget what it was you used to make old horse rasps into because for
[Ann:] Ooh yes!
[John:] farrier has a, has a file... with very, very coarse teeth on one side
[Enid:] That's right.
[John:] and slightly less coarse on the other
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] is used for rasping the the hoof... erm... I can't remember what you used
[Ann:] We used to use all sorts of things.
[John:] used the old ones for.
[Ann:] Hooks, flashers.
[John:] Because that's a special hard... steel isn't it?
[Ann:] It's hard steel, now.
[John:] It's not ordinary iron is it?
[Ann:] They used to use, make them into flashers and hooks for hedge cutting and
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] hoes for chopping out sugar
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] beet.
[Enid:] Yes, because of course you had all the equipment to shape it up anew
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] didn't you?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] You could make whatever sort of shape you wanted from it [LAUGHTER] I should
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] imagine [].
[Ann:] Yep!
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] That's an i,i interesting thing talking about the names of the tools too erm... flashers and hooks, now in other parts
[Ann:] Now you never hear that.
[John:] of the country you would probably hear them called a slasher and a... what?
[Ann:] I mean, nearly all people... think a hook is a hook don't do, for hanging
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] things on?
[John:] Mm. Yes.
[Ann:] Well in Suffolk you see, a hook is a thing for cutting the hedge.
[Enid:] Yes
[Ann:] A hooker.
[Enid:] a a curved scy a sickle type
[Ann:] A, yeah.
[Enid:] shaped thing.
[Ann:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Or a chopper.
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] I see. And you just call that a hook?
[Ann:] A hook, yeah.
[Enid:] So you di, did you call the thing you were doing hooking... or not?
[Ann:] What er
[Enid:] Wi with hook, would you say
[John:] When you were using it
[Enid:] that you were hooking
[Ann:] No you'd be
[Enid:] the hedge or not?
[Ann:] You'd be hedging.
[Enid:] You're hedging.
[Ann:] Yeah, hedging them.
[Enid:] Yes, I see.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah,
[Enid:] The tool was a separate name?
[Ann:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Enid:] Really? Aha.
[Ann:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Enid:] And did you have to repair things, well you probably did, er farm instruments, I don't mean the big implements but things like their scythes and what
[Ann:] Oh yes!
[Enid:] have you?
[Ann:] We used to ma, we used to buy the scythe blade and
[John:] Well that was the blacksmith's bread and butter, that kind of thing.
[Ann:] and do all the other... iron work on it, you see, yes.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Oh yes!
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Ann:] Yeah. Hoes and... things like that were all... er... hand made.
[Enid:] Ha!
[Ann:] Spuds, dock spuds... thistle spuds.
[John:] Have you come across a spud?
[Enid:] Now how do you spell that, S P A D
[John:] It would be G D.
[Enid:] G E.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] I think it would be S P U D
[Ann:] D, yeah.
[John:] Yes?
[Enid:] Oh just a s
[John:] Yes?
[Ann:] Spud.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] Sped? Spud.
[John:] I think so. I think so.
[Enid:] Really?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Th, it's a dialect word really.
[Enid:] Oh not erm, not a spadge Yo er
[Ann:] No.
[Enid:] I heard the name spadge when I was
[John:] No, it would be spud wouldn't it?
[Ann:] No, spud.
[Enid:] Really?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] It's probably in the dialect book, I haven't looked it up.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Yeah.
[Enid:] I'm rather
[John:] And another good old word is the crome, now er that was one I came across for the first time when I came into Suffolk, the crome. I jolly soon learnt what a crome was, I didn't ask I waited to find out. [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]... learn a foreign language
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] isn't it?
[John:] Yes. Yes.
[Enid:] What, what was that?
[Ann:] Well a a
[John:] Mm mm.
[Ann:] crome is a
[John:] He couldn't believe I didn't know what a crome was!
[Ann:] that's ooh ah
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] well either two or four times... er... turned down on a long handle... for pouring... things... er... out of the, I mean like, when I used to
[John:] I know what it is now.
[Ann:] when they used to put er... the muck on the fields... they used to put so many loads of eight and so many heaps of the... well, when they pulled it out of the room... they'd pulls out the crome.
[John:] Like a fork bent at right angles.
[Ann:] Angles.
[Enid:] Oh!
[John:] It's the ideal thing for that job
[Ann:] Yes.
[John:] you see.
[Ann:] Yes.
[John:] A fork, only... bent over.
[Enid:] I see!
[John:] Mhm.
[Ann:] And the old
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] the real old... gardeners... and I mean well every house had one... because they used to grow their own vegetables didn't they?
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ann:] Well when they dug the garden, after they'd dug it they always cromed it down with a crome before they planted anything.
[Enid:] Really?
[Ann:] Used the crome as the rake.
[John:] Aha.
[Enid:] Now could that be
[John:] Mm mm.
[Enid:] the same sort of thing that Noel bought last year when he saw one of the men in the village, using it to pull out a lot of weed from undergrowth, really
[Ann:] I expect so.
[John:] I expect so.
[Enid:] it's er,i and it's got three prongs... like that, and there's, I think, an arrowhead shape on each prong.
[Ann:] Ah that'd be the modern ones.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes, that would be
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] the modern
[Ann:] The modern one, but er
[Enid:] adaptation.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] That'd be the modern one.
[John:] Similar principle.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Sim sim
[John:] Mhm.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] It is
[John:] Yeah.
[Enid:] erm, for getting up... a lot
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] of weed?
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] The old style crome would be a thing about as wide as that
[Ann:] Yeah, about ten
[Enid:] What about
[Ann:] ten inches wi and the
[Enid:] Mhm.
[Ann:] would be
[John:] Yes and... and the would be parallel
[Ann:] Parallel.
[John:] four times, wouldn't they?
[Ann:] Four.
[John:] And e, equally distanced.
[Ann:] Fo for that work.
[Enid:] Ah yes!
[John:] Mhm.
[Ann:] But for... pulling the muck out of the tumble... they only have two.
[Enid:] Oh!
[Ann:] Two tines.
[Enid:] Did they?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] More like a pitch fork bent at right angles then?
[Ann:] But bent at right angles.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] That would be a muck crome?
[Ann:] That'd be a muck
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] crome. Yeah.
[Enid:] And was a lot of straw in with that?
[Ann:] Oh that was all straw, do you
[Enid:] Ah!
[Ann:] see?
[Enid:] Because otherwise you couldn't have pulled
[Ann:] No.
[Enid:] er, sort of muck without
[Ann:] No no.
[John:] No.
[Enid:] straw could you?
[Ann:] No, no.
[John:] No.
[Enid:] But straw
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] of course.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Mhm.
[Ann:] Yeah. And the tines on a muck crome are flat, whereas the ones on an ordinary one for... all the work were either round or square.
[Enid:] I see.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] So I came across these things you see when we were first married because I used to write out all Hector's bills for him, by hand before we had a typewriter
[Enid:] Mhm.
[John:] and of, I'd come across these words you see, I'd think crome? Crome, what is that? [LAUGHTER] You know []!
[Enid:] Yes. Even to spell it
[Ann:] And gradually the
[Enid:] in the first place
[John:] Yeah.
[Enid:] you needed
[John:] So I had to
[Enid:] to know.
[John:] yeah, so I did have to guess a great deal
[Enid:] Mm.
[John:] because no good looking in the dictionary for a lot of these things.
[Enid:] No.
[John:] No, no, no
[Ann:] Mm.
[John:] no.
[Enid:] no.
[John:] No. I assumed that a crome was C R O M E, and I still do! [LAUGHTER]
[Ann:] Yes.
[John:] cos I've never come across anything else!
[Ann:] Well I mean all the, all the... all the dialect words are
[John:] Phonetic really
[Ann:] spelt
[John:] aren't they? They have to be!
[Ann:] They're spelt as you say them.
[John:] They have to be!
[Enid:] They are, that's true.
[John:] Mm mm! They are phonetic.
[Ann:] They're spelt how you say them so they can be spelt... er... ten different ways in the same village!
[John:] And still be right!
[Enid:] That's right, I see.
[John:] Because there's no... there's no dictionary spelling
[Ann:] Cos I mean, I'd
[John:] for a lot of them.
[Ann:] well I I spells how I say it.
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Er... somebody up the road... er... hundred yards... would spells how he
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] say it.
[John:] I I used to notice that
[Ann:] And there's just that little bit of
[Enid:] It was phonetic spelling!
[John:] Yes!
[Ann:] Yeah! Yeah.
[John:] When the cards were, from the... er, the workshop would come in... which the lads had done their work, I mean, one of them, I know dear old Pete, in particular, he'd write for crome, C R double O M, because that's how he'd say it.
[Enid:] Croom.
[John:] Yes!
[Ann:] Yeah, croom.
[John:] Yes!
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] But it's still right. Yes!
[Enid:] And very often the O, in the Suffolk dialect goes to an ooh doesn't it?
[John:] Ooh yes!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes!
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Mhm.
[Enid:] Home.
[John:] Eith either a long ooh, or a sort ooh, like er, like in
[Ann:] It's as a
[John:] room or
[Ann:] mostly a short one because
[Enid:] Mm.
[Ann:] that's a... lazy language the Suffolk dialect innit?
[John:] I suppose it is in a way.
[Enid:] I suppose a lot
[Ann:] You cu
[Enid:] of dialect is.
[Ann:] cut out this
[John:] Yes... it is isn't it?
[Ann:] cut everything short don't you?
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] Oh yeah.
[Enid:] Yes you do.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] But it's quite different from the unpleasantly lazy speech that you get now, for instance, Lancashire... i it's
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] not true Lancashire that's spoken up there, it's a lazy... you
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] know up the city [said without the t]
[John:] Yes
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] yes, yes, yes.
[Enid:] that sort of thing. Nothing like over
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] No.
[Enid:] here
[Ann:] No.
[Enid:] dialect.
[John:] Yeah, same as the erm... what you get from the outskirts of London, the home counties, I call
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] that ugly too!
[Enid:] It is!
[John:] True cockney is a treat to listen to.
[Enid:] That's right.
[John:] But there's a lot of adulterated cockney in the home counties, I used to hear it a lot in Hertfordshire.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Erm, especially in the war because the evacuees of course, would come along and of course
[Ann:] Yes.
[John:] all the local children picked it up, of course they did! [LAUGHTER] And we'd all go home talking like them and our mothers complained []!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[John:] Er, but it was interesting all the same. It was interesting to hear them.
[Enid:] Indeed!
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] But that a thousand do you see a... the dialects are going
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] and they'll soon be gone... and one thing which annoyed me... er... a Scotsman... or a Welshman... or an Irishman... can go on television... they'll accept them... and they can talk their
[John:] You mean as a newsreader or a a presenter of programme
[Ann:] lingo, as a newsreader, as a presenter
[John:] don't you?
[Enid:] Exactly!
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] and yet, if anybody go on there with a southern dialect they wouldn't... well they wouldn't have them there!
[Enid:] That's true, isn't it?
[Ann:] Cos they aren't talking the queen's English!
[John:] It's taking a
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] long time for dialects to be accepted but I think... I think that boundary is giving way
[Enid:] Well I hope
[John:] frankly.
[Enid:] it will universally because
[John:] Mm mm.
[Enid:] I feel the Scots make a tremendous fuss about their
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] speech and
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] their traditions!
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] You never hear on the whole... the Englishman saying... but I'm English!
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] No.
[John:] No you don't. We're
[Enid:] Do you?
[John:] We're too
[Ann:] No, no.
[John:] self-effacing aren't we?
[Ann:] And yet they'll a
[Enid:] But they
[Ann:] they'll accept the big proposals
[John:] Mm.
[Ann:] of television and radio
[John:] Yes!
[Enid:] Yes!
[Ann:] and that.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] That's right.
[Ann:] Top jobs for them!
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] But when you te
[Ann:] And yet if you go for a top job... in the city or anywhere... an and start talking in the... southern dialect they'll you.
[John:] Yeah, you're, you're made a laugh of aren't you?
[Enid:] Absolutely!
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] That's very true!
[John:] It is extraordinary!
[Enid:] It's also true that up in
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] Scotland... they don't like to hear English accents on their television and news.
[John:] Well I never!
[Enid:] They much prefer to have their own people.
[John:] Ooh!
[Enid:] But how often do we listen to a Scottish accent?
[Ann:] Scot yeah!
[Enid:] And every time a trade unionist comes on.
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] I'm afraid
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] we've got a little phrase, another
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] bloody Scot we say!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yeah, yeah well you do!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] And then... you've got them
[John:] You do!
[Enid:] with the roughest of the
[John:] Yes!
[Enid:] the trade
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] unionists!
[John:] Yes!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] pretty well Scot
[Ann:] Yeah, that's always
[John:] They are! They are!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes. Yes.
[Enid:] So we've been perhaps a little
[John:] Mhm.
[Enid:] bit erm... reticent
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] about our dialects.
[Ann:] Yes.
[John:] Er Yes, yes. I I
[Ann:] But er
[John:] think it's... time they
[Ann:] But I'm not gonna change, if anybody don't, but if they can't accept me
[John:] [LAUGHTER] No, I don't really think so []!
[Ann:] well they must er...
[John:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] Well er, you can't say that it's hard to understand because I'm a Londoner and
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] for a long time I have been
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] and you never say anything that I don't understand, unless you were to use a word like crome.
[John:] Well quite
[Ann:] Oh yeah.
[John:] a word, an
[Ann:] Yeah
[John:] actual word
[Enid:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] that you've never come across.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] Mm.
[John:] But after all, once is enough, and once you know, you know don't you?
[Enid:] Exactly!
[John:] You don't forget.
[Enid:] No!
[Ann:] No.
[John:] Erm
[Enid:] You don't.
[John:] No. No I
[Ann:] That's right.
[John:] I found coming into Suffolk from Hertfordshire I hadn't heard the, any East Anglian dialect before at all... erm... I didn't find it difficult, there were only two cases and I can remember thinking... there were two people... er, one of whom is still alive, er who I had great difficulty in understanding and I thought when I can... follow both of them without any difficulty I shall know I really belong.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] And, it didn't take long with one of them, that was Dennis
[Ann:] Mm, Dennis.
[John:] and the other one, I don't know whether you knew him, I think he lived in Earlsome for a time didn't he?
[Ann:] No, well Monksome
[John:] Didn't he? Monksome
[Ann:] Monksome
[John:] Erm, a chap called Ben... erm
[Ann:] No, I don't
[Enid:] No.
[Ann:] I expect he was days before
[John:] and my word he was difficult to follow!
[Enid:] Was he?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes. Er... he spoke fast, that was the problem, most
[Enid:] Oh yes!
[John:] Suffolk people don't.
[Enid:] No, they don't.
[John:] They give you time to listen and time to think
[Enid:] They do.
[John:] but he spoke quickly... with a very strong accent and that
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] took me a lot of years before I could... and I was so pleased when once I was able to say to you... I've... Ben had been in the shop and we'd had a chat hadn't we?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] You and me and him and Joe, was another
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] one... and we'd had a chat for a long, long time and I said to him afterwards, I was able to understand everything he said!
[Enid:] Wonderful!
[John:] [LAUGHTER] I was so pleased []!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER] That's an achievement []!
[John:] [LAUGHTER] Yes []!
[Enid:] [LAUGHTER]
[John:] [LAUGHTER]
[Enid:] You know one thing that's striking me at this moment... actually, when you talk about when you came into Suffolk and you
[John:] Mm mm.
[Enid:] met... er, Hector and... you told me once before you had no eyes for anyone else there.
[John:] That's right. Perfectly true!
[Enid:] Erm, in these days when... er, so large a proportion of marriages breaks down
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] erm... it seems to me that... the marriage that has an interest to your occupation, let's say, in the man's hands
[John:] Mhm.
[Enid:] if you like
[John:] Mhm.
[Enid:] er, although you've got your own artistic contribution which you also... combine with
[John:] True, yes.
[Enid:] Hector's work
[John:] That has... been a great
[Enid:] erm
[John:] strength to us.
[Enid:] Oh, I think that's a... a tremendous
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] strength to a marriage!
[John:] Yes. Yes.
[Enid:] I feel the same with Noel
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] if there's something really interesting that you have
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] between the two
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] of you
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] erm, you don't give up at the first little hurdle.
[John:] Course you don't!
[Ann:] No, No. No
[John:] It makes an incredible bond... doesn't it?
[Enid:] Doesn't it?
[John:] Absolutely!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] I feel that.
[John:] Yes!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] Makes it a good recipe for a good marriage.
[John:] Ooh yes!
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] It really does!
[John:] And I th, I think about a great deal because... it's a very strange, it's a very strange thing to talk about but... when I came to Suffolk, I might have told you this before... er, I had hardly been away from home at all, I was only seventeen when I first met him
[Enid:] Mm.
[John:] and I had a very sheltered life, I was an only child, I hadn't been around much, I hadn't stayed away from home... erm... and... I came to Suffolk to visit a girl penfriend who was working at Brandeston Hall... and erm... she at that time was expecting to get engaged to... a chappy in the village here who was, and still is a friend of Hector's and ours, and... they didn't marry in the finish... but she at that time wanted me to come up to Suffolk to see her... and to meet this chappy who she thought she was going to marry... and erm... so, it was... holiday from the art school where I was and I thought well... why not? I'll erm, I'll venture and, and my parents said yes, that would be alright and so er... so I came along and erm... of course, it happened that he was in the... he was in the forge talking to Hector on the first evening I came... and that was how we met.
[Enid:] Mm.
[John:] And erm,i it was an extraordinary thing! But... added to that, I can well remember... staying at Kettleborough Chequers... erm... and... er... walking along... from Kettleborough to Brandeston erm... th the very next morning after I'd come here... and I think it was before... I think it was quite likely before we had... we had actually met, I don't know whether it was the first day or the second
[Ann:] Yeah,
[John:] that we met in in the shop there but... the strong impression I had is walking over the hill from Kettleborough where the gun club now is... walking down into this valley and seeing that view of this little end of the village nestling in the hollow... and I can remember feeling a... extraordinarily strong sensation that... I could easily live there
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] I could belong there
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] and I had never felt it anywhere else and I've never felt it since!
[Enid:] Isn't that wonderful!
[John:] But it, there was something that felt right.
[Enid:] I yes, I really believe in that
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] feeling! A sense of belonging.
[John:] Most extraordinary!
[Enid:] I belong here.
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Because I hadn't been around much, I hadn't been away from home
[Enid:] Really?
[John:] and i it was quite forcible!
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] And er
[Enid:] Marvellous!
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] I think if one's receptive to things like that
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] you know, it si, it
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] it strikes you
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] doesn't it?
[John:] Yes
[Ann:] Mm.
[John:] It does.
[Enid:] And er
[John:] There was a rightness about it.
[Enid:] And you don't forget it because
[John:] No!
[Enid:] you're young enough to be so impressed by it.
[John:] Mhm. Yes.
[Enid:] Yes. That's wonderful!
[John:] Yes, there was a rightness about it.
[Enid:] Right.
[John:] [LAUGHTER] Okay [].
[Ann:] Ha.
[John:] Erm... and er... I've felt that same... sense of rightness... at many times... over these years, this is now our... thirty seventh year?
[Ann:] Thirty seven, yeah I
[John:] Nineteen
[Ann:] think so.
[John:] No, thirty eight.
[Ann:] Thirty eight.
[John:] This is nineteen ninety two.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] This' ll be our thirty eighth year in December. So it's several. Erm... there have been times doing work which we have... er, worked on together... different jobs... when I have thought, yes... this is what I'm here for.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Very, very strongly!
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] And never, never more so than, of course, working on the sword stand.
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] Never more so than that!
[Enid:] That was wonderful
[John:] I thought
[Enid:] wasn't it?
[John:] I... the work I'd done in the past... the training I've had... the experience I've had with Hector and his work... that was all leading up to that.
[Enid:] All coming to it.
[John:] It all came together.
[Enid:] Yes. I can quite see that really.
[John:] It all came together.
[Enid:] Because
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] that was a whole thing wasn't it?
[John:] It was the culmination.
[Enid:] Connection with the
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] city.
[John:] It was! It was!
[Enid:] Er
[John:] Mhm.
[Enid:] the ancientness of the
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] actual
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] thing
[John:] Mhm.
[Enid:] you were copying.
[John:] The significance of what it was for.
[Ann:] For.
[Enid:] Absolutely!
[John:] Yes. Everything
[Enid:] Absolutely!
[John:] about it.
[Enid:] And now, of
[John:] Yes.
[Enid:] course, it sits
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] America with
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] its sword in it
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Mm.
[Enid:] on certain occasions.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] It's a... it's a permanent tribute to your
[John:] It's
[Enid:] collaboration
[John:] It's an extraordinary
[Enid:] forever in America.
[John:] it is an extraordinary thing, an
[Enid:] Yes.
[John:] amazing, an amazing sensation
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] for it to be, isn't it?
[Ann:] Yeah.
[John:] Yes.
[Ann:] Yeah.
[Enid:] It's wonderful!
[John:] Yes. Yes. And erm