[James Whale:] Enjoy that? Oh good good [telephone number drone in background] good I enjoyed that. Welcome to the programme. Whale is on the wireless, here in the heart of Britain's largest county, to wreck havoc, or to be gentle, sweet and loving. Any way if you want to talk, you can pick up the phone, you can ring me now, it's.. We want to talk first of all about the North Yorkshire M Ps, we have t We're on to Michael as I speak, and his secretary has been very very charming, very helpful, very nice. She has tried to get hold of him. The others are unobtainable, er but I think what we should do because of course you are there to tell them whether or not you think they should be going for er twice the rate of inflation pay rise. These are guys who earn a minimum of thirty one thousand pounds erm if they don't have any companies sponsoring them, a lot of them have companies sponsoring them. They get free travel. Er they don't do so badly at all, they get free er They get allowance for their accommodation in London, Okay? So they're not out of pocket, they don't have to keep two homes going. And I I really don't think they have any business without consulting you and me, as the peoples that they represent, because I'm I'm a voter in North Yorkshire too, so I don't think they have any business actually doing this without consulting us first of all. Now correct me if I'm wrong, I'll look in the other r Excuse me while I look in the other room. Er all the MPs for North Yorkshire have have agreed for this haven't they? We d Okay we don't know, we want to ask them we w So if you are an MP in North Yorkshire and er you think I'm giving you a hard time and I know you sneakily listen to this programme, I know you listen. Er I suggest you pick up the phone and you give us a call now on, alright? Er and I say I want to come on the on the phone and I want to talk to James, I want to put him straight, I tell him that we're not doing this and I want to tell him that we actually erm know that er the people will be concerned about us giving ourselves a huge pay rise. If you have any views on whether MPs should be doing that or not, give us a call as well. you know the number. [telephone number drone in background] I keep forgetting it. I'm also told that we'll have no problems with the phone calls this week. Have we We have no problems with the pho that's all been fixed. We have a new phone system, so you can r If you want to test it out you might as well just give me a ring and come on the air to begin with. [sigh] And if you don't want to talk about that we'll talk about something else. You know something that erm appeals to you. But in the first instance, and there the calls are coming in, I would like to hear about your views on MPs in North Yorkshire voting themselves a double the rate of inflation pay rise. If you have any views pick up the phone and call me now. [music] all sort of Islamic and er fundamentalist and Matthew and son. Radio York, that's where you're tuned, the B B C station for North Yorkshire and er James Whale is here on the wireless with you bright and e I'm amazed I can get up after being up so late on a Friday night, I'm amazed I can be in here this early on a Friday, and somebody said [yawning] well it is twelve o'clock []. You're you're right. Before we go to the calls, one other thing that you may be interested in talking about. I don't know er why we're not more continually erm [sigh] more on the case as far as our members of parliament are concerned because remember they're there for our benefit and front page of the Daily Mirror this morning. Women deserve rape says M P's wife. Front page. This is er a fairly topical issue at the moment. [reading] Many women deserve to be raped, a Tory M P's wife said yesterday. Sir Nicholas Fairburn's wife, Sam, backed her husband's astonishing views that there is no such crime as rape. [] I want you to take that in, I'm pausing for a little I want you to take it in. [reading] It may sound nasty but a man would never look at some of those women she said, a lot of women deserved to be raped. It's not fair on a man if a women undresses and then changes her mind at the last minute. [] What sort of hole did these two crawl out of? What sort of people This is a man who dresses up remember, in very strange scotch plaid trousers and jackets. And he and his wife together are saying a women deserves to be raped. Personally I don't care at what stage of sexual intercourse you're at, if a women says I want to stop now, then you stop now and that's it. If you have any view If you've read the front page of the Daily Mirror today, and if you are as angry about it as me, I'd be interested in hearing for you. Let's go to our first call and erm that's good. I'm glad you came in there, cos I was merrily talking away wasn't I?
[Danny:] You were.
[James Whale:] Yes I was, I wasn't even looking at the [LAUGHTER] screen []. Let's go to erm Margaret, I think.
[Danny:] Mr
[James Whale:] Margaret what?... What did you say then? Oh Mr. O Oh right Mr. Oh about Margaret Thatcher. In this screen, I'm glad to say that public opinion you see can shift things. They're going to the B B C engineers who put this screen in the top of the ceiling, which makes it almost impossible to read, are now going to move it. But of course that does keep them in a job. Right Mr. [static and beeping] Erm I see. We New phone thing and not working terribly well. Er Mr hello.
[Douglas:] Hello.
[James Whale:] Sorry about that.
[Douglas:] That's alright.
[James Whale:] Got to learn where the knobs go in this place.
[Douglas:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] What can I do for you?
[Douglas:] Well I wan I tried for two days to talk about Lady Thatcher.
[James Whale:] What do you mean you tried for two days?
[Douglas:] Well I tried at quarter to nine the day that there there is talking about it and er I wasn't allowed on the phone.
[James Whale:] Why wouldn't you be allowed on the phone?
[Douglas:] Pardon?
[James Whale:] Why would you not be allowed on the phone.
[Douglas:] You tell me
[James Whale:] I don't know, I wasn't here. Are you one of those that upsets the people, are you cleverer than most broadcasters, that really
[Douglas:] Oh no I'm not clever at all.
[James Whale:] Oh yes you are.
[Douglas:] I
[James Whale:] You managed to operate the phone, course you're clever.
[Douglas:] Oh okay then.
[James Whale:] Anyway, Mr.
[Douglas:] Yeah? What?
[James Whale:] Mr?
[Douglas:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Can you hear me?
[Douglas:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Okay, right, what did you want to say?
[Douglas:] Well I wanted to talk about Lady Thatcher. Do you want me to tell you what I want to talk about?
[James Whale:] Well I I don't mind one way or the other. I mean as long as you understand the laws of slander and liable?
[Douglas:] Yeah well. Okay. Well what I wanted to talk about is, when Lady Th Thatcher first came into power
[James Whale:] Could could you refer to her as Mrs Thatcher, cos I'm not really into all these titles, they annoy me.
[Douglas:] Mrs Thatcher.
[James Whale:] That's better, yeah.
[Douglas:] When Mrs Thatcher first came into power, she got hold of the pound note, held it up and tore it in half and then tore it into a quarter, and she said this is what the pound's worth under the Labour government.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Douglas:] N now then, the other thing is when Dennis Healey went to the monetary system to ask for a couple of million pounds, he was shout down shouted down, but
[James Whale:] I don't think any MP has ever been to the monetary system to ask for a couple of million pounds, actually. What's your first name?
[Douglas:] No Douglas.
[James Whale:] Is it?
[Douglas:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Oh you don't mind if I call you Douglas do you?
[Douglas:] banks Junior.
[James Whale:] I beg your pardon?
[Douglas:] Douglas N Fairbanks Junior.
[James Whale:] [LAUGHTER] Oh Right. [] Er when thy come to give you your lunch let me know and I'll let you off. Er right, go on.
[Douglas:] Well er the thing about it is, what makes me d what er makes me When Lady Thatcher came out of power
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Douglas:] she never said how much the pound was worth, well I I don't think it would cover five pence piece.
[James Whale:] Have you been er worrying about Margaret Thatcher tearing a pound note up for the last twelve thirteen years?
[Douglas:] I ain't been worried at all,
[James Whale:] O
[Douglas:] I don't do is worry.
[James Whale:] Oh you don't?
[Douglas:] No.
[James Whale:] Oh. And they wouldn't let you on? You've Radio York all week, they must have been over er over overwhelmed for callers I imagine this week, I would have thought you would have been a boon to anybody's talk show.
[Douglas:] For two days I wasn't allowed on the show, and they What they said was there was too many other people on before hand.
[James Whale:] Yeah. They they probably though that your personality was so special that it would it would actually have made everybody else look rather stupid.
[Douglas:] No I think what it was was a load of bullshit they give me.
[James Whale:] Oh they didn't, that's an awful American word. You can't say Bullshit on the road On the radio.
[Douglas:] Can't you?
[James Whale:] No.
[Douglas:] Oh.
[James Whale:] Not in a farming community like North Yorkshire, people get very tense about it.
[Douglas:] Oh jolly good.
[James Whale:] Yeah. Anyway Douglas it's time for you to go and have your next injection isn't it?
[Douglas:] Pardon?
[James Whale:] Thank you, bye. Er time for us to move on and talk to er Sam er who is there somewhere. Now Sam bear with me. Hello Sam?... Er you're not on that one. Now Danny er set up these lin Now let Hang on just one minute, what Twenty two. Would you say red is Oh red is twenty one isn't it? Okay let me put tat onto twenty one. Hello Sam.
[Sam:] Hi.
[James Whale:] Hi. I've got it now, it's okay Danny. I've I've sussed it, alright?
[Danny:] Okay.
[James Whale:] All I ask i Sorry Dan Er s sorry er erm er Sam.
[Sam:] Sam, that's right.
[James Whale:] Fine you hang on there. Sorry Dan?
[Danny:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Three letter words is very difficult for me to keep
[Danny:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] Er see if you can get me a date. There's a In in the weekend review with the Daily Mail today, Bonny Langford is sitting there saying all I want to be is a women, and not thought of as a little girl.
[Sam:] Bully for her.
[James Whale:] And er she's a lovely Don't you like her Sam?
[Sam:] Oh yes.
[James Whale:] Yeah, thank you very much indeed Sam.
[Sam:] I like everyone me.
[James Whale:] Do you?
[Sam:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] then we're not going to have much to talk about then.
[Sam:] Oh yes we are.
[James Whale:] Okay.
[Sam:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Go on.
[Sam:] Well it's about the MPs and the wages,
[James Whale:] Mhm.
[Sam:] salaries. I object most strongly. I'm a pensioner, and er I have to exist on a very very low
[James Whale:] Who is your M P?
[Sam:] My MP is er
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] Michael Allison.
[James Whale:] Michael Allison. Well we're trying to get Michael Allison on the phone and he may well be one who doesn't agree with this.
[Sam:] I don't think he will, but he's the MP for Selby, he's a conservative M P, but I don't care what politics they I don't know about what party they they support
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] they shouldn't be taking this r wage r this wage increase.
[James Whale:] Wh what Well no I agree. And not all the MPs are voting for this by the way.
[Sam:] Oh well I'm very pleased about
[James Whale:] Not all the the MPs are voting for this because a lot of people can't have work, let alone have a pay increase.
[Sam:] You're right. now then, I'm retired.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] I'm nearly seventy, er my pension, will be going up by a pound and odd, I'm not right sure how much. That'll next April.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] Er at present I get sixty one pound a week old age pension, I've a works pension of about twenty some pound a week, so that I live on eighty pound a week. And I'd like to give a challenge to either er Michael Allison or any of the other MPs to come and live in my little bungalow for And exist on that rate for a week.
[James Whale:] Now wasn't it er Matthew Paris when he was still an M P, he's journalist but Gone back to being a journalist now. Matthew Paris actually tried to do that.
[Sam:] He went up Yes, and he couldn't manage could he?
[James Whale:] He couldn't manage it and he said that he felt that he had to stop being an MP er for several reasons, one of them was that he thought most MPs like he agreed he was at certain times, were out of touch.
[Sam:] That's right, well I feel sure they are. I mean er now they talking about putting V A T on fuel,
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] er I have er storage central heating and I can't afford to put them on. I've got them on in one room, er I put them on a little bit
[James Whale:] Mm. If every pensioner I have to I I don't want to I mean I a I don't want people to think I'm m m too much of an anarchist.
[Sam:] No.
[James Whale:] But surely if if every pensioner said that's it we can't afford to pay this and didn't pay. I wonder what would happen, they couldn't put everybody it prison for non payment could they?
[Sam:] I don't know, they couldn't. I though that about the poll tax anyhow. I mean I payed it obviously because you If you live you live in er you live in the land you've got to pl go by the law.
[James Whale:] Exactly and if you don't pay it, and there are a few silly old so and sos not paying it at the moment, I mean the rest of us have had to pa
[Sam:] Er well that's another thing you see we have to pay it
[James Whale:] Exactly.
[Sam:] the extra for them, which is ridiculous you know. I and I'm not a I'm not a moaner, I try to be I'm a Christian and I try to be a Chris Christian spirit to everyone.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] you know, and I give everyone that
[James Whale:] Okay Sam one one
[Sam:] of the doubt.
[James Whale:] Just before you go, we're going to try and get Michael Allison on.
[Sam:] G
[James Whale:] Er he's in London at the moment, he's not at He should be up here, I don't know what he's doing in London on a Saturday morning, he's supposed to be up here having a surgery somewhere. What do you think about Halloween by the way?
[Sam:] Halloween?
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Sam:] Well
[James Whale:] As a Christian, you said you were a Christian, Halloween is er the celebrating the devil,
[Sam:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] and er
[Sam:] celebrate the devil. No we don't I we don't I my my faith we don't celebrate the devil, we don't cross our fingers, we don't say er you know anything about luck or anything like that b
[James Whale:] Oh don't you?
[Sam:] the devil. Er no.
[James Whale:] I'm always crossing my fingers, I'll have to be careful about that.
[Sam:] [LAUGHTER] Yes. [] Well that's it. I mean I I I s I have to I say it myself occasionally, I stop very quickly because I realize that
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] it isn't it isn't my religion, we don't we don't celebrate anything er I mean I know Christmas o obviously there's a lot of pagan things in Christmas.
[James Whale:] Well apparently black magic is on the increase in North Yorkshire.
[Sam:] Is Well I was I'm trying to think where I was I was at Blackpool, er I went to Blackpool for two days, I went with some friends.
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Sam:] Er and then they'll be saying how can you afford to go to Blackpool? Why I I I can because I I saved a little bit, and I'm I h I had to keep going on my savings.
[James Whale:] Yeah but er has Blackpool got anything to do with black magic?
[Sam:] Yes it has. They were on in the funfairs on the prom
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Sam:] and on er on the piers. There were cassettes and they dealt entirely with occult. With
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] occult and with black magic and that kind of thing.
[James Whale:] Okay Sam, thank you for your call. Don't cross your fingers, don't look at any black cats, don't run under a ladder. If er I'm being quite serious actually now. Another thing we're going to talk to somebody from the N S P C C who's coming in in a few moments to talk about Halloween trick or treating and stuff like that. Because er most of the year we tell our kids not to talk to strangers, and then [LAUGHTER] one day a year [] you send the little so and sos out to knock on peoples doors to ask for money er and sweets and things like that. I mean are we completely loopy? Or, as some people say, does the devil have all the best tunes. Melanie are you there? Erm I tell you what Melanie, you will be in uno momento. Okay Melanie? Hi.
[Melanie:] Hi.
[James Whale:] Come closer.
[Melanie:] Is that better?
[James Whale:] Much closer.
[Melanie:] Much close
[James Whale:] Ooh that's lovely.
[Melanie:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] So early in the morning.
[Melanie:] Very early.
[James Whale:] Oh it's lunchtime for most people isn't it? I'm just thinking of myself really.
[Melanie:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Melanie, where are you?
[Melanie:] I'm in car park at the moment.
[James Whale:] Are you really?
[Melanie:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Oh I went past there not so long ago and that radio station that's got no listeners in Yorkshire has a huge advertising thing there.
[Melanie:] yeah, I don't know why.
[James Whale:] No, I can't imagine why, listening to it, it sounds like everybody working on is about twelve, doesn't it?
[Melanie:] That's right, yeah.
[James Whale:] Yeah, I'm going to ring them up in a moment and tell them I object to some of the advertisements, particularly for drugs that they're advertising.
[Melanie:] No, well I don't listen to it, so I wouldn't know.
[James Whale:] Good girl. You don't even know what I'm talking about.
[Melanie:] No.
[James Whale:] No. I haven't a clue either. Er anyway Did you buy anything nice?
[Melanie:] No, I haven't been into York yet, I'm on my way, I live near Harrogate.
[James Whale:] Oh I see, you came in with me this morning.
[Melanie:] That's right.
[James Whale:] Yes. Don't you find that ro Don't you find the mess they're making on the A one there, over near Knaresborough, annoying?
[Melanie:] Absolutely terrible yeah. And I've already had one ac car accident on the A fifty nine so I don't like that road either.
[James Whale:] You don't?
[Melanie:] No.
[James Whale:] That is a pig of a road, I must admit, I don't know why they don't make it into a dual carriage way.
[Melanie:] Mm.
[James Whale:] It would only take a couple of houses to be knocked down and they could make it into a dual carriage way.
[Melanie:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. [] As long as it's not my house.
[James Whale:] Why? Is yours right on the A fifty nine.
[Melanie:] No, it's
[James Whale:] Alright so you're in the car park of [shop]?
[Melanie:] I am yeah.
[James Whale:] On the mobile phone.
[Melanie:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Melanie:] And I'm a civil servant in York.
[James Whale:] And how come civil servants have mobile phones in their cars?
[Melanie:] Because I do a lot of travelling on my own
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Melanie:] as you know a lot of lone lady travellers have
[James Whale:] [cough]
[Melanie:] aren't very safe. So
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Melanie:] it's a small expense which I think's worth it. Cos I can travel three hundred miles on my own at night so you know it just gives me a bit of safeguard.
[James Whale:] Mhm. Hang on just one moment, can you Melanie?
[Melanie:] Yes
[James Whale:] I I just appealing for MPs and I know you have the radio on just to see if I'm being rude about you, and of course I never am because I'm a I'm a nice person. Er I would like an M P, and there are a number of North Yorkshire M Ps, how many? About erm eight I think. Seven seven seven. About Let me just w Yes seven. there are seven North Yorkshire M Ps. Er I'd just like one to call up and tell me about their pay.
[Melanie:] Mm.
[James Whale:] You know the number guys. Any any female North Yorkshire M Ps? No. Not one. This is such a male chauvinist county this isn't it? North Yorkshire. It needs a good kick up the bum. Sorry anyway. Back to Melanie, who is a civil servant.
[Melanie:] Working in York.
[James Whale:] Working in York.
[Melanie:] And probably getting less than a third of the pay of most MPs round here. And we've been told that we'll only get between a nought and one point five percent increase at the most. Which is what we were given last year.
[James Whale:] So how do you feel?
[Melanie:] Not very happy. Because we've also been told we're probably going to lose our jobs in a couple of years unless we're prepared to move to Glasgow.
[James Whale:] And so why have the MPs taken it upon themselves now, remembering of course as I mentioned early, that they are on a minimum of thirty one thousand pounds a year. they have free travel on the trains, wherever they like to go, they have secretarial allowances, and some of them use their wives as their secretaries. And they allowances, I think, up to another ten or eleven thousand a year for accommodation in London.
[Melanie:] Yeah, well you tell me. Or ask one of them to tell me, because it's not fair.
[James Whale:] Well they won't ring in, Melanie, at the moment and er we're r ringing round their homes and trying to trying to get them out of their beds and things, but they're being a little elusive.
[Melanie:] I'm not surprised, they're probably embarrassed.
[James Whale:] Mm. Well listen, if they do come on w And we've got your mobile number, we'll ring you back if we find them.
[Melanie:] Certainly, yes.
[James Whale:] And if you're in the middle of a supermarket, you can talk to them right in the middle of a supermarket.
[Melanie:] I'm on my way to M F I.
[James Whale:] Are you?
[Melanie:] Yeah, to give them some stick, so
[James Whale:] Oh really?
[Melanie:] Certainly, we got a bookcase and there was
[James Whale:] I see.
[Melanie:] and it's taken about three weeks to get hold of it so I'm going to see if it's ready.
[James Whale:] They er They're they're such lovely people at er M F I. They would absolutely delighted to speak to you, and d I'll tell you what to do Melanie.
[Melanie:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Tell them you're a friend of mine.
[Melanie:] Alright then.
[James Whale:] Okay.
[Melanie:] I'll do that.
[James Whale:] See you later.
[Melanie:] Speak to you later bye bye.
[James Whale:] Bye. Okay. If you've got a phone, whether it's in your car, in your house, at the bottom of your garden, you can pick it up and give me a ring on. And er I do this bit now don't I? I do I do er er this is radio Do I do a time check. I'm going to do a time check. It's twenty six minutes, alright? Twenty six minutes past twelve. [music, jingle] And then I go, B B C radio York, the station that's first for travel. And then you take it away, don't you? Go on.
[Danny:] That's right. Good afternoon James. Starting off on the A one between Catterick and Leaming Bar, the weekend contraflow's in operation at the moment. All traffics using the south bound carriage way, there are delays at the moment of four miles on the south bound approach, also fairly busy north bound through those road works at the moment. Some good news on the A one, the earlier abnormal loads which were heading southbound and causing some quite lengthy delays near to Boroughbridge, they're now parked up near to Wetherby so they're not causing too many problems at the moment. At Stockton on Forest, Stockton Lane Bridge is closed this weekend for resurfacing, that doesn't reopen until six o'clock on Monday morning. the M sixty two in west Yorkshire near junction twenty nine, the loft house interchange, there are various roadworks and lane restrictions on the slip roads there, and that's causing traffic to be slow moving around that junction at the moment. Finally, back in North Yorkshire on the A one six eight, between Dishforth and Thirsk, the contraflow continues between the A one and the A nineteen. Danny Savage A A Roadwatch.
[James Whale:] Thank you very much indeed Danny. And looking at the traffic on the railways, it looks to me as if it's all absolutely wonderful, hunkydory and everything else, so er unless you're er er bl s No no no no all the trains right up to the er nine minutes past one Harrogate train er, and the four minutes past one Plymouth train, all seem to be bang on train. And of course as they say, if they're not, we will let you know. Alright [telephone number drone in background] Yeah. Yeah you can call us now. M Ps' pay or anything you feel about Halloween. Should we be celebrating Halloween or not. If you have a view gives us a ring. [telephone number drone in background] [music] Prince and er You You You You You. B B C radio York and the Whale show until two this afternoon. And we'll be talking to the N S P C C in a few moments. Just er er sort We're going to keep this running through the show. I really do I wish to have an MP here on the phone line and talk about this er proposed pay rise. They cannot do this again without expecting us to cause trouble. Cos I haven't said that my MP can have a pay rise, and as I vote for my M P, and you vote for your M P, they have to ask us first as far as I'm concerned. Alf, hello.
[Alf:] Hello there.
[James Whale:] Yes Alf.
[Alf:] Good afternoon to you.
[James Whale:] Hi.
[Alf:] Er I just thought perhaps this morning, why they're not answering you is erm they usually have surgeries on a Saturday morning.
[James Whale:] Er they have phones, We're trying their surgeries and a number of them are still in London and a number of them er
[Alf:] Er not replying.
[James Whale:] No. I mean they won't you see. The thing the thing about MPs is they they think erm You have to be fairly careful because I I spend quite a lot of time interviewing MPs and I I think that er er they're quite interesting some of the time to talk to. but if they get the upper hand, and if they think they can start er dictating, then they will, alright?
[Alf:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] And you remember that they're in no position to dictate because they're there for you and me.
[Alf:] That's right, they're elected by us.
[James Whale:] Of course they are. Now some people may say that thirty one thousand pounds isn't a great deal of money. And and and in the sort of business that a lot of M Ps, or people that become M Ps, and the sort of Mm er way they have to l It may not be a lot of money, and maybe they are entitled to some more. But I don't think they can go voting themselves more money whilst the rest of us have trouble in finding work.
[Alf:] Yes, I agree with
[James Whale:] And they're voting to cut back benefits, so it seems that they perhaps have misjudged. And if they are able to misjudge on on this particular issue, then they are likely to misjudge on other issues, so er we'll have a chat with them and we'll find them out what they think and er what they say.
[Alf:] Okay yeah.
[James Whale:] Erm what are you doing with my headphones? Are you unplugging those?
[speaker003:] No.
[James Whale:] Are you sure? okay, sorry about that Alf.
[Alf:] Alright, no problem.
[James Whale:] Er you you're sort of chatting away and people come in and they're all over the place, so er
[Alf:] station where you are then?
[James Whale:] I know it's like it's like like the train station, isn't it? In York really. Er so you're not Are you bothered one way or the other, or not?
[Alf:] Erm.
[James Whale:] You didn't sound too bothered to me.
[Alf:] No I suppose not in a sense, but there again we should be because like you've just explained, why should they give themselves a
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Alf:] without consulting us first.
[James Whale:] Okay. Well hopefully we're tr we're chasing around Michael Allison at the moment.
[Alf:] Oh right.
[James Whale:] Am amongst other people, so we'll see w we can get him on.
[Alf:] Well I think he's been on before and he's quite a decent chap, I think.
[James Whale:] Is he? I've never met Michael Allison so er I'm sure you're absolutely right, I shall er wait and find out. Thank you Alf.
[Alf:] u Bye.
[James Whale:] Bye bye. Er I also want to find the person who's responsible for the traffic flow in the centre of York, because I think they should be resigning. I'm not sure why er York is I mean y There are worse traffic jams in York than there are in the west end of London at the moment. So whoever it is who's er sorted that out, perhaps they will come here before me and er and account for themselves. [telephone number drone in background] I was going to do that. O nine Yeah. Right, thank you. Okay res that's the Yeah ring that number, that's the number to ring. Now the N S P C C has er warned us of possible Halloween danger and er David I I missed your name there David so you'll have to remind me what your name is.
[David:] Good morning James.
[James Whale:] David isn't it?
[David:] David I'm
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[David:] I'm protection manager at the local N S P C C child protection team.
[James Whale:] And I've just found your microphone as well, which is quite
[David:] Mhm.
[James Whale:] You'll have to bear with me David, I think you're only the second person I've ever had, if you'll excuse the expression, in this studio. So you're on there. Trick or treat, which is an American idea, which seems to have come er come over here over the past, ooh I don't know, five tens years hasn't it really?
[David:] I was I was wondering too, myself, as I was travelling here where where it actually came from because er I don't remember as a child, myself, doing something like this.
[James Whale:] No but we do W we we've always er celebrated Guy Fawkes for some strange reason, which seems
[David:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] to be a very unusual bit of history to celebrate.
[David:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Particularly when it went wrong and after all the man was purely a terrorist. But why do we I mean why do we encourage kids to go out like this at the moment. I mean there were four or five knocking on door of er a friend of mine the other day, who said y They were they were under the age of ten.
[David:] Yeah. Yeah. I can't answer your question about why we encourage them to go out. We As you see from our press releases, certainly not encouraging children to go out
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] and er if they do, what we're hoping to do by this particular campaign is to warn parents and carers of the of some of the dangers of doing that. But I think trick or treat itself, maybe has got a bit perhaps distorted from what one might imagine the American idea originally was.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] Perhaps in local communities where children might actually have Their trick might have been something entertaining erm and the treat itself might have been something like erm you know American
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] candy or something like that.
[James Whale:] Yeah, but I mean we're getting away
[David:] Wha
[James Whale:] from it, the things is
[David:] And that's right, but what we've got now is children going around knocking doors, perhaps knocking on elderly peoples doors
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] certainly knocking on strangers doors, and er demanding Almost demanding money erm or they'll do something perhaps [LAUGHTER] quite unpleasant to someone []. And that's I can't help thinking that's really got quite some way away from the original idea.
[James Whale:] when the kids get s thumped er we all get we all c Are your headphones alright there? Okay. Er it's seems to me really I'm just scanning your your press release now, for the sake of the children.
[David:] Mm.
[James Whale:] Er N S P C C warns of possible Halloween dangers. I would have though Halloween was a danger cos it really is First of all it's a satanic er celebration, that's everybody seems to think it's great, we'll dress up as er as witches and demons and things like that. that'll be fine. And nobody Even the church I mean I know the church can't agree on anything at the moment, we're sitting here just down the road of course, the general synod of the church of whatsit and the archbishop of thingummybob is sitting there over their muesli and cornflakes I should imagine at the moment, or a late brunch, erm n not saying anything. I haven't seen one church official saying that Halloween should be scrapped and we shouldn't be celebrating it, or maybe the churches ought to be er putting forward some idea of their own.
[David:] No, they've obviously got other things on their plates, at the moment, haven't they, that they perhaps feel is more important
[James Whale:] And I don't see y you actually saying that er perhaps this is er You know this is th th th the sort of the fun of the devil, here.
[David:] Mm. You mentioned earlier on that that perhaps er like with Guy Fawkes, there's a lot of things that come from the past, from our history and we lose Perhaps we lose a bit of sight about where they've come from. And many of those things do have dangers attached to them but they also have, potentially, a bit of f er er fun attached to
[James Whale:] Really? I don't see any fun in this David,
[David:] Mm.
[James Whale:] I'm very sorry, I don't I can't understand what what
[David:] Well.
[James Whale:] pretending to be the devil
[David:] Okay if you let
[James Whale:] is going to do.
[David:] let me finish what I was going to say.
[James Whale:] Go on then.
[David:] Erm I think what the N S P C C by by bringing out this particular information to help parents and carers with trick or treat, is wanting to do is is to make sure that the fun that children are wanting to have doesn't actually go badly wrong. Erm and er that it's maybe very important at a time like this when children are potentially going and and knocking on stranger's doors to be particularly careful so what we've done is is is put together a simple guide for parents and carers erm which suggests that er they shouldn't just let their children go off for the evening. Erm that they should know where they're going to go. That ideally they should actually be doing this with just family or friends, erm or or or adults that they actually know.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] Not not this going off. But if they're gonna go off they ought to be telling their parents where they're going to go. Erm and and when they're going to be back. Erm we're certainly very keen indeed that that young children aren't just allowed to go off er in ones or twos. That th that if they're going to go they go with older children or or adults, there's no reason why
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] they can't actually do this, if they're going to do it and we're certainly not encouraging them to do it, but if they're going to do it then there's no reason why they couldn't do it with adults.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] But they certainly shouldn't be encouraged to go into strangers' houses and we'd also ask er people who perhaps do have children knocking on their door not to invite them in either. Erm
[James Whale:] The last flipping thing I do, invite them in.
[David:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] I I actually have a bucket of cold water just behind the door and I couldn't care what age they are, whack.
[David:] Right, fine well maybe you ought to be announcing where you live James at the end of this so
[James Whale:] No thank you.
[David:] so it can be avoided by any children
[James Whale:] No thank you. It's the only fun I have.
[David:] [LAUGHTER] It's a serious point, it's a serious point because some people erm perhaps do like to
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] respond positively to children so oh yes yes come in hold on
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[David:] a minute I'll see if I can get you something
[James Whale:] Well they're stupid.
[David:] and of course
[James Whale:] I mean they're absolutely stupid I had
[David:] Yeah
[James Whale:] this trouble once with a with a young child and er I told this this this person er granny figure if you like, don't talk to those children I've told them not to they went on and on and on. I mean you can't have it both ways
[David:] No.
[James Whale:] you know, people have got to realize that this day and age er children are taught not to talk to strangers
[David:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] and however genteel that stranger maybe it's actually giving the children the wrong signals.
[David:] Yeah yeah that's right, and the next door they th the next door they kno knock on there might perhaps be someone who perhaps
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] does have some idea in mind that's going to cause harm to the child and the child innocently goes in.
[James Whale:] So if you're a parent and you're allowing your kids to go out on er trick or treat night or Halloween, then you don't deserve to have children.
[David:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] David didn't say that, I said that you know, lets not mix our words nice and mealy-mouthed about it. If you allow your young children particularly children under the age of ten out you are a fool.
[David:] It might be interesting to actually If if the paren if the children are insisting, cos children put a lot of parents er a lot of pressure on their parents. Oh everybody does this, I want to go out too I want to go out. If if parents let
[James Whale:] Well if you can't control your children you shouldn't flipping well have them.
[David:] If parents allowed their children to go out last year, what about going out with them this year? How how about that as a very practical suggestion or as you say perhaps finding
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[David:] something else to do with them instead. [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] Okay David, thanks very much indeed for your time and for talking to us today but er if you have a view on that you might like to give us a call. Er I should say that I'm only saying this because it's written in front of me, some churches apparently in York are putting on alternative festivities er I don't think they're trying very hard because I haven't heard of any and I certainly don't move around the place, hear of any. Others are holding traditional barn dances and parties etc. That will be as much as fun as er Sunday school I expect and probably just as well attended. So if you have any views on Halloween, trick or treating, and er remember what David and the N S P C C said. Don't, I mean it's silly knocking on strangers' doors, it really is ridiculous knocking on strangers' doors. Any views give us a call,. [music] Elaine Paige I don't know why I played that was the wrong record to play. I hate that record. She's not a bad person, actually I quite like Elaine Paige but er I hate that record. I don't know why I hate it I just hate it okay. Er O nine O four s oh hang on I'll l l llet you do this okay go on take it take it. [telephone number drone in background] That's the number ring in. I've got the Beatles, I've got the Beatles next. I have yes I'm picking up I'm picking up, I'm picking up Ellen hello. Ellen?
[Michael:] Ellen? I'm not Ellen
[James Whale:] How are you? Is it Ellen?
[Michael:] No.
[James Whale:] Oh it's Michael is it?
[Michael:] Now then James.
[James Whale:] Michael.
[Michael:] How are you?
[James Whale:] I'm fine. Why why did I think you were Ellen?
[Michael:] Well.
[James Whale:] Now Ellen was on the other line. I don't know why. Ellen was on yellow which is twenty two and you are on whatever er white which is er twenty nineteen
[Michael:] That's right I have no idea
[James Whale:] Does that answer your question?
[Michael:] I can only take your word for that.
[James Whale:] Okay well it's true.
[Michael:] Right. Okay.
[James Whale:] Michael from York
[Michael:] Now then how are you? We spoke last week actually
[James Whale:] Oh you're the wealthy one the Rothschild one aren't you
[Michael:] No I'm just normal.
[James Whale:] Oh just normal.
[Michael:] I just wanted to
[James Whale:] Not according to all the people who phoned in afterwards.
[Michael:] Now listen to me
[James Whale:] Go on.
[Michael:] We're having a bonfire this Friday
[James Whale:] Yeah
[Michael:] And we haven't got a guy.
[James Whale:] Well I'm not coming
[Michael:] Are you interested?
[James Whale:] No absolutely not.
[Michael:] Can I book you to go on top of the bonfire
[James Whale:] No you can't. How much by the way?
[Michael:] Er what's your normal rate?
[James Whale:] Er for you, travelling to York what do you think? Five grand?
[Michael:] Five grand, no problem as long as you're prepared to er go up in smoke.
[James Whale:] Oh go up in smoke. [LAUGHTER] that's another ten. That's another ten grand fifteen grand I'll sit up on top of the bonfire until it gets hot
[Michael:] we ought to have a phone in James. Who would who would want you to go on top of the bonfire.
[James Whale:] Okay well we can do that. O nine o four six four one six four one. If you would like to see me on top of Michael's bonfire ring in and the er th th the more amount of votes we get in for that
[Michael:] listen to me. What we ought to do we'll have the vote in
[James Whale:] We will will we?
[Michael:] Who Well if you if you it's your show of course
[James Whale:] [LAUGHTER] I'm glad you remembered that
[Michael:] Right. Well for the time being
[James Whale:] [LAUGHTER]
[Michael:] we'll have a vote who would rather go on top of the bonfire you or me.
[James Whale:] You or me?
[Michael:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Well w nobody knows you I mean
[Michael:] Yes they do I'm very famous.
[James Whale:] A B You are are you? Well we did have a few of your funny friends on afterwards saying do you know this man is he he he is er got the best in parties. If you want a party he's the one to go to.
[Michael:] Really?
[James Whale:] They said you've got some wowee parties
[Michael:] Oh well there you go you see, now are you interested then Friday night?
[James Whale:] Friday night
[Michael:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Sitting on your bonfire?
[Michael:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Absolutely not
[Michael:] Why not?
[James Whale:] Well, cos I'm not.
[Michael:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] I'm going to be busy Friday night
[Michael:] Okay well the offer was there anyway.
[James Whale:] Listen Michael it's very very nice. When you're having another one of those parties I read about in the Sport.
[Michael:] In the Sport?
[James Whale:] In the Jacuzzi with the girls I'm your man
[Michael:] delivered daily don't you [LAUGHTER] I'm going to have to go my lunch is on the table.
[James Whale:] Oh what you having?
[Michael:] Pate on toast actually.
[James Whale:] Really? Well you're on a diet aren't you? You what?
[Michael:] In fact in fact, we've just moved in today into this place.
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Michael:] I don't know if you're doing anything this afternoon but we want a cleaner
[James Whale:] You do?
[Michael:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Do you pay good rates? What do you pay?
[Michael:] Yeah whatever you want.
[James Whale:] Yeah. I m I m I'll do anything for money, I'll literally will do almost anything Is your wife there?
[Michael:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Let me have a word with her if she's attractive then I might come over.
[Michael:] Wendy.
[James Whale:] Wendy, bendy Wendy.
[speaker003:] Hello James.
[James Whale:] Wendy, how are you?
[speaker003:] I'm very well thank you how are you?
[James Whale:] I'm very well too. My sympathies. It must
[speaker003:] so like my husband and I would like all the listeners to know
[James Whale:] It must be difficult.
[speaker003:] It's very difficult. We've only be married actually erm eighteen months.
[James Whale:] Why? I mean presumably he's got a lot of money I mean
[speaker003:] Well
[James Whale:] is he going to last long?
[speaker003:] Well, every now and then he has a bit.
[James Whale:] Does he?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Okay. I mean have you got him well insured?
[speaker003:] Very well insured.
[James Whale:] Good girl, listen that's the only thing I mean that's
[speaker003:] The life insurance would be wonderful
[James Whale:] Pardon?
[speaker003:] The life insurance would be wonderful.
[James Whale:] It would would it?
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] Well you better erm no no no I mustn't be seen to encourage that sort of thing.
[speaker003:] No not over the air.
[James Whale:] No. What's the new house like?
[speaker003:] Erm well it will be very nice but it's a bit like a building site.
[James Whale:] Is it?
[speaker003:] Mm but it will be nice.
[James Whale:] What are the neighbours like?
[speaker003:] Erm
[James Whale:] I mean you sound enormously younger than he is.
[speaker003:] Do I?
[James Whale:] Yes and presumably you are. It's sort of the old man young wife syndrome
[speaker003:] erm well only about a year only about a year younger.
[James Whale:] Really?
[speaker003:] Er we've got one lot of neighbours who seem very pleasant and we don't have any other neighbours.
[James Whale:] Oh that's okay then.
[speaker003:] So er it should be fine.
[James Whale:] Yeah he's debauched himself quite a lot judging by his voice.
[speaker003:] Well he's an unsavoury person really but I'll hand him back, he's lurking around.
[James Whale:] Is he lurking around?
[speaker003:] To talk to you.
[James Whale:] Okay fine thanks Wendy it's our secret bye.
[Michael:] Hello
[James Whale:] Er what a lovely wife she says what a lovely man you are.
[Michael:] Pardon?
[James Whale:] S Say again.
[Michael:] Listen all you viewers out there, is it viewers on the radio?
[James Whale:] Yes it can be whatever you like.
[Michael:] If you would prefer t if you would like to see James Whale on top of bonfire please ring in.
[James Whale:] Thank you Michael
[Michael:] Alright.
[James Whale:] Have a lovely afternoon.
[Michael:] speak to you again
[James Whale:] And my sympathies once again to your lovely wife. Er is the number to ring and we're still looking for a North Yorkshire M P. Have we found Michael Allison yet? Are we? He was [LAUGHTER] exhausted by his debate on the church [] [LAUGHTER] I don't well probably because nobody else turned up. It was one of those debates when nobody else turns up, but on a more serious note I'm concerned that the th th the problems and we've had them here in North Yorkshire caused by terrorism in Northern Ireland and whilst debating Northern Ireland erm there were very few. There was about fifty percent full the house of Commons was about fifty percent full which I thought was a little worrying. Not to worry right lets go and fine Ellen er on yellow which is twenty two. Ellen? hello Ellen? No can't be on yellow can it? Ellen doesn't seem to be on yellow, is she? You think she is Is she? Okay. Right well let me er let me let met me just er try this one? Ellen? Morning. Lemon? Morning. Morning! Oh Morning. Good morning. God, you're load there. [LAUGHTER] Where are you? I'm at Scarborough. Are you? Yes. Er is it smelling still? Oh it's er it's overcast but it's quite pleasant. Overcast but quite pleasant. Yes. Have we got any coffee left guys? Bring me a cup of coffee. Thank you. Yes Ellen what can I do I I'll tell you. I can read what they said about you. Do you want me to tell you? Well you can do. It says Ellen in Scarborough, regarding children and trick or treat and general behaviour. Well it's not the general behaviour of children really. It's not the children that I get so annoyed on the the trick or treat and the previous running up to the bonfire night. Er the amount of children Yes. that actually [LAUGHTER] sit outside pub doorways until nine ten o'clock at night Now a lot of these children are on the average er eight nine ten eleven twelve year olds Oh I needed that. now I mean you know, they're a bit young. They are very young. They're too young I mean you've got the dark nights on Mm. and with everything that's happening with children, Yeah. I mean they can't even go to the shops sometimes and they're not safe. It's been proven. But what what do you say these I mean what sort of people are are having these children? I mean they're totally degenerate inadequates are they? You know I've had er I've I've had seven children myself. Well you should be ashamed of yourself allowed my children to go out on trick or treat. What'd you have had seven kids for for goodness sake? Well I had, they've all grown up now. Er if I was in power I'd put a tax on every child after two I would have taxed you out of existence Ellen. Ah ha well. You could have got a T V or listened to the radio. Well yes, I suppose so but I wouldn't be without 'em. Well I suppose not. But the point is it's Mind you I would at Christmas. yeah, it's it's the people that do allow their children to go out, and I'm sure there's a lot of parents out there that agree with me on this point, you know, Mm. I mean it it just shouldn't be allowed. Yeah but it's You know it's it's it it is it's stupid. I mean the only people who do it are the parents themselves. Well they're to blame. Obviously I mean Yeah. they let them go out and they don't know where they are, but the majority of of children that do it year in and running up to Christmas time they do exactly the same at Christmas, Mm. Christmas carolling and walking in to pubs. Well I think pub landlords are to blame. I mean there we are we've got a er purveyors of er intoxicating liquor allowing children to go in to their bars or hang around outside. Yeah but the point is I mean if the barman's busy in the pub on a night time and it's dark he don't know whose outside Mm. does he? No you're probably right. couldn't particularly blame a landlord for that. I don't know what you can do about it though because if people are that thick, there's nothing much you can do about it is there? No, but I mean it's it's too late crying isn't it Yeah. if anything happens. So don't ring up complaining that your kids were sort of er abused or whatever if you let them out. If you let them go out at night exactly. Lets see what other people say thank you Ellen Yes alright, thank you. Have a nice Saturday bye bye. Bye. Okay want to give me a call after the news we've got erm a little music after the news and then if you want to ring you can do that now erm about anything you like. If you want to talk about something different MPs voting themselves er twice the rate of inflation pay rise. If you want to have your say on that feel free. And let me just before we take the music remind you of er the front page of the daily mirror today. We're hoping to get somebody from erm the rape crisis centre on the phone to talk about this. I find this particularly disgusting. Front page of the mirror. After ex-law minister's outburst [reading] women deserve rape says M P's wife. Women deserve rape says M P's wife []. I think we should make a phone call to the constituency office of this man and ask them what they think of their er representative. Hang on, oh. [reading] According to Nicholas Fairburn's housekeeper he and his wife has gone out. [] I would have thought they would be hi hiding under the bed for saying this. Let me read it to you. [reading] Many women deserve to be raped a Tory M P's wife said yesterday. Sir Nicholas Fairburn's wife Sam, backed her husband's astonishing views that there is no such crime as rape. [] I repeat, there is no such crime as rape. [reading] It may sound nasty but a man would never look at some of those women she said. A lot of women deserve to be raped. It's not fair on a man if a woman undresses and then changes her mind, at the last minute. Once a man is sexually aroused and is quite it is quite difficult to stop isn't it? [] It might be difficult but that's the difference between well never mind. She added [reading] it's the nature of the beast a sign of the times []. Now I don't know but I would imagine that Lord and Lady Fairburn should be drummed out of Parliament, well he should. I have never ever in my life read anything so ridiculous. If you want to make a commit you can ring me now call now. O nine O four, if you're outside York,. Call now. [telephone number drone in background. music to end of side one of first tape] turn me mike on now and speak don't I? That was my impression of a Leeds accent. Do you like that? Er right welcome back B B C Radio York Whaley's on until er two this afternoon and before we do anything else er a little bit I saw in the paper, Unions about turn, that's the shop workers' union known as USDOR erm have done an about turn and they now say because they saw the writing on the wall, that they think Sunday trading is okay, well more or less. Er and they have forced erm their union to aban or the shop workers have forced their union to abandon its previous policy erm and back opening on the sabbath. I am as you probably know a huge supporter of Sunday trading. I always shop on Sunday and I just thought that it was nice to see in the paper today it looks like we will have legalized Sunday trading everywhere for all of us fairly soon. Good [clapping] I'm very very pleased, very pleased. Er Chris is on the line. We'll talk to Chris before we play a bit of music. Hello Chr hang on a minute Chris don't go away hello Chris. Is that you?
[Danny:] Yes.
[James Whale:] I think it is.
[Danny:] thinking er you were saying that er
[James Whale:] You were what?
[Danny:] pagan feast.
[James Whale:] Did you say you were thinking?
[Danny:] You I was thinking
[James Whale:] Oh you were thinking oh good that makes a change for our callers
[Danny:] You were saying that er Halloween is as pagan feast.
[James Whale:] Yes.
[Danny:] so's Christmas why shouldn't so why shouldn't we not celebrate that so to speak?
[James Whale:] I don't I don't celebrate Christmas do you?
[Danny:] Well I do, but I want I want to guy who rang in that wanted you to sit on top of his bonfire.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Danny:] Why didn't you ask him to sit on top of your Christmas tree? A s see how he liked it. You think I think it was a bit mean of him.
[James Whale:] Well I think he would have enjoyed it too much to be quite honest with you that's why I didn't do it.
[Danny:] you never know.
[James Whale:] You know. I think he might he might well have enjoyed it.
[Danny:] I don't know.
[James Whale:] Yes well I suppose so [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] A anyway lovely to talk to you.
[Danny:] Okay.
[James Whale:] Thank you Chris. Bye bye. Marvellous absolutely marvellous. [yawn] We'll take in some more calls after this. Erm And yes you've guessed it an old Motown hit from erm back in the sixties. Samantha Reeves and the Vandellas, Dancing in the Street. [music, recorded number drone in background, music] Samantha Reeves Dancing in the Street. And you're tuned to Radio York on the Whale show until two and er now we shall probably although the phones are ringing at the moment erm run out of calls I should think because between one and two I know most of you are having your lunch or at the pub or whatever. So er give us a call if you're there. Er William doyen of the broadcasting standards council and a man whose seems to er I don't know I don't know whether he courts bad publicity or he but anyway. He's in the paper today saying why I now believe drug taking should be made legal, and er I think he er he's absolutely right. I don't understand why we make the poor so and so's who are addicted to er to drugs er fear the law as well. If we were to decriminalize drug taking we would probably go a long way down the road to solving the problem. Got any views on that because er bear in mind a lot of the towns and even some of the villages in North Yorkshire have a a problem with drug taking now er that the police are quite concerned about it. So William erm on Thursday night erm he said on B B C's Question Time erm which was given over to crime and punishment issues which had not been debated and erm William said he'd a come to the conclusion now that he believed drug taking should be made legal. Er I don't know if you have any views on that, give us a call. And super model's pay has gone down from ten thousand pounds to er five hundred pounds a day. So if you were thinking of becoming a super model, my suggestion is that er you don't do it alright because it's er it's not worth it. It's I mean would you get out of bed for five hundred quid a day? Would you get out of bed for five hundred pounds of course you wouldn't. So er if you're thinking of becoming a super model if there is anybody out there who's thinking of becoming a super model perhaps you'll give me a ring and er and I can break the bad news to you personally. We also wanted to know if anybody had any views on I mean it. We
[speaker003:] So Sunday mornings lie-in time right? Right now I don't want to get you up I want to encourage you to set your alarm for seven o'clock, quite low, and when I come on at about two minutes past just snuggle up to your wireless and enjoy the music and the news and the views about the religious scene in and around North Yorkshire and beyond. What more can I offer you? Well sport, traffic and travel, what's on, think for a minute and plenty of opinion. So go gently in to every week, every Sunday morning with me Simon and a Sunday breakfast show, seven till nine, join me you'll enjoy it.
[James Whale:] Oh good, er, [heavy breathing] That's the first time I've heard religious [cough] sort of erm I better not say what I was going to say. Sunday morning Sorry, er right, where is he? Where is he? John John is it? Erm John John are you there?
[Douglas:] Yes hello.
[James Whale:] Hi John, tell me what you do.
[Douglas:] I'm the er information officer at the North Yorkshire European Community Office in York.
[James Whale:] You are aren't you?
[Douglas:] Indeed.
[James Whale:] I'm I'm I'm absolutely glad you've told me that and of course what is the big day that's coming up on Monday?
[Douglas:] It's the er official day of the ratification of the Maastricht treaty.
[James Whale:] [shouting] Yeah. [] [clapping]
[Douglas:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] [shouting] Yeah. [] And are there going to be flags in the street? Bonfires burning and fireworks being let off?
[Douglas:] I think it's highly unlikely.
[James Whale:] Oh.
[Douglas:] Unlikely indeed.
[James Whale:] Oh that that must be a bit galling for you, really, John.
[Douglas:] Er well I mean I'll have my fireworks on Friday night the fifth of November but erm
[James Whale:] Oh that's a great erm celebration of terrorism isn't it yes.
[Douglas:] Well I wouldn't quite put it like that
[James Whale:] Why?
[Douglas:] But erm
[James Whale:] Wouldn't you I would I mean wasn't Guy Fawkes a terrorist?
[Douglas:] Well
[James Whale:] He was. Don't mince your words John he was. You're not studying to become a politician are you?
[Douglas:] Oh no way.
[James Whale:] Are you sure?
[Douglas:] Absolutely.
[James Whale:] Because that was a politician's I'll play that trailer for the Sunday breakfast show again in a few moments and get you terribly excited.
[Douglas:] Absolutely.
[James Whale:] Erm so nobody's excited about it, not many people knew about it.
[Douglas:] Well I wouldn't actually say nobody's excited about it I mean I think that the way these things happen is that they they're gradual rather than er
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Douglas:] accumulative I mean er
[James Whale:] So on Monday when I wake up Monday morning,
[Douglas:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] How will things be different for me?
[Douglas:] Well th there are a number of ways in which there are differences I mean that that that there are things that people might notice themselves er as opposed to kind of, you know, high high politics, are
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Douglas:] are things like erm in the area of what you might call citizenship, for example in the er European elections you could erm vote in another European country, you could actually stand for election in another European country.
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Douglas:] Erm there are different things that e effect consumer policy, environmental policy, and there are lots of things that happen in the educational field. I think that erm young people in particular will see some differences in the way that they can move around different European countries, for example study in another European
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Douglas:] country or if you gain a qualification erm in er in another European country you can use it in any other one of the E C twelve. So it's sort of a mobility thing and erm I think people will notice it on erm on that kind of level erm but as I say it's a gradual process it's cumulative and erm
[James Whale:] So basically there was no no point in it what so ever John
[Douglas:] Well I'm I'm not some I wouldn't I wouldn't say that I mean I'm saying that erm
[James Whale:] Well you shouldn't say that John, you'd be out of a a job, wouldn't you?
[Douglas:] Well I I don't have any er mandates, I mean it's not my er
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Douglas:] I I'm basically just erm giving information about it I don't have any mandates
[James Whale:] Isn't this Okay. Isn't this going to make it difficult now, I mean with jobs the way they are, does this mean tat people can come in from erm E C countries and er there is no reason why they shouldn't be given a job erm against somebody who lives in this country?
[Douglas:] Well that's absolutely true.
[James Whale:] And there's I mean it's the same for us, as well so er
[Douglas:] That's true, yeah.
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Douglas:] Erm it's a it's a two way street. I mean er erm it's a single market for every citizen of the E C twelve so an Italian, a Belgian, a German can come to this country and work, er but the p Assuming they can do everything else as equal, their qualifications are equal and so on.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Douglas:] Erm but the converse is true, that er er er a British national can go and work in all of those countries, so instead of seeing it as a threat, I mean one can easily see it as an opportunity.
[James Whale:] It's interesting though, that after all this aggravation, the fact that er the Prime Minister nearly lost his job, er there was nearly another election erm there's going to be no celebrations, no fireworks, no balloons, no huge dinners on Monday we're just going to sort of peter into the Maastricht treaty coming into effect.
[Douglas:] Well I think that's a good way of putting it, absolutely, I mean er As as I say but it it is erm I think it's been a long process and to get I mean it's taken nearly two years since the
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Douglas:] treaty was actually signed and the process has been so long and er various people have been er As it were, knocked with the Danish referendum, the french referendum, and John Major's had his own difficulties in getting through the house of commons. Erm
[James Whale:] Well there's an understatement, yes.
[Douglas:] Absolutely.
[James Whale:] [LAUGHTER]
[Douglas:] and I don't think that it's the kind of erm erm b bonfire night, fireworks celebration type
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Douglas:] of event but erm I don't think that that makes it er negative, I think that the idea is that it's it's cumulative and er that's that's the way, well as you say,.
[James Whale:] Okay. Thank you very much indeed for talking to us John er er and I'm so sorry it's not going to be more of a a m m milestone in your life.
[Douglas:] You know I mean always looked forward to champagne but er there we are.
[James Whale:] Thanks John.
[Douglas:] Thank you.
[James Whale:] Bye bye.
[Douglas:] Bye.
[James Whale:] Radio York the Whale Show on a Saturday afternoon. Now Welsh M P, this is quite funny, has moved the motion if you'll excuse me on the subject of public loos. He rightly points out that we need more ladies toilets and if you know you get the chance to to use the ladies loo it's cleaner and better looked after than the men's, I've heard. Erm and the simple reason he says the the historical length of time taken by females we need more public facilities. Also to make them more user friendly especially for mums with toddlers in tow, they need to be more roomy. Of all the things the Welsh MPs have got to talk about they decided public toilets are the most important. You have a view on a public loo then give us a ring, rather seedy unfriendly dirty smelling of urine places if you want my own public opinion. O nine O four six four one six four one O nine O four six four one six four one. I want you to pick up your phone and call me now cos I could do with a couple of phone calls so pick it up now O nine O four six four one six four one. Hello oops hello Jennifer. No not Jennifer hang on just a minute let me try Jennifer there. Hello Jennifer? No on blue on on blue on blue what blu what number is blue? Twenty three okay well I've it on twenty three I don't know why it's not working. Let's try again. Hello Jennifer? No let me try this one. Erm Jennifer hello.
[Sam:] Hello.
[James Whale:] Hello what's that noise? [noise on line] I knew this was going to happen it's going to be one of those days. Jennifer?
[Sam:] Hello.
[James Whale:] You've got [noise on line] you've got a funny thing on your whatsit.
[Sam:] I don't know what it is.
[James Whale:] Have you got your radio on Jennifer?
[Sam:] No.
[James Whale:] No it's not a radio sound. It sound like a baby alarm to me.
[Sam:] No I haven't got a baby alarm either.
[James Whale:] Haven't got a baby alarm eith oh well that's okay that'll be fine I don't care [sniff]. I'm gonna have another cup of coffee do you mind?
[Sam:] Not at all.
[James Whale:] Okay. Where are you calling from let me have a look up there. oh Jennifer from York.
[Sam:] That's right.
[James Whale:] Oh I thought you were calling from. I was going to say I didn't know there was such a place.
[Sam:] There's.
[James Whale:] There is isn't there.
[Sam:] Yes.
[James Whale:] But that's up erm isn't that up
[Sam:] There's Thirsk
[James Whale:] Thirsk yeah
[Sam:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] yeah it's up near Middlesbrough isn't it somewhere up that way.
[Sam:] Yeah that way yes yes.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] But no from York from Osbaldwick.
[James Whale:] Oh God this coffee's cold urgh.
[Sam:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] Well apparently we can't find anywhere to to make coffee yeah. Oh I've gotta do the can you can you sorry about this Jennifer
[Sam:] That's okay.
[James Whale:] I've got to take the traffic now. Can I take the traffic now I think I'm gonna yeah that's that's okay. Would you would you hang on just a minute?
[Sam:] Certainly will.
[James Whale:] And would you give me points out of ten for how I get into this okay?
[Sam:] Right.
[James Whale:] All right here we go. Er right I'll just leave you there for a moment and put that back up there. I have to say something like hang on just one minute erm I have to pull this faded down don't I go [music] B B C Radio York the station that's always first for travel.
[Danny:] Good afternoon James. Well starting off on the A one between Catterick and Leeming Bar there's the weekend contraflow in operation there today. All traffics using the southbound carriageway at the moment there are delays of about five to six miles on the southbound approach to those roadworks also quite busy northbound at the moment. Otherwise the A one is quite busy throughout the region but no other major problems are reported. Football this afternoon Scarborough are playing Bury at the McCain Stadium so you can expect some extra traffic in Scarborough town centre with that football. Also at Stockton on Forest Stockton Lane bridge is closed over this weekend. That's for resurfacing work through to six o'clock on Monday morning. The A one six eight between Dishforth and Thirsk still has the contraflow in place between the A one and the A nineteen and finally just a reminder that er contraflow on the A one at Catterick is causing southbound delays of between five and six miles. Danny Savage A A Roadwatch.
[James Whale:] Very very well done Danny I thought you were good. How am I doing by the way Jennifer?
[Sam:] Oh ten out of ten.
[James Whale:] Ten out of ten thank you very much indeed Jennifer. Er I see actually that er there is a little delay on the one thirty three London Kings Cross train. That's not going till one forty five and the one th er twenty five Manchester Victoria is not going till one thirty nine and the one twenty Manchester Airport isn't going till one twenty eight but there's no big deal about any of that really so most of the trains are on time that you. More traffic oh hang on turn that off right more traffic and travel a bit of a bodge-up at the end there really Jennifer.
[Sam:] [LAUGHTER] Right []
[James Whale:] [LAUGHTER] Erm. [] Right Jennifer's on from York. What we going to talk about?
[Sam:] Erm about the Halloween about
[James Whale:] Oh right yes yes Yep right.
[Sam:] Yes yes. Erm I haven't actually been listening to the programme I was asleep I've got to be honest.
[James Whale:] Why? It wasn't that boring.
[Sam:] No not
[James Whale:] It wasn't that boring. What d'ya mean you were asleep. I was on T V until two o'clock this morning. How come you were asleep?
[Sam:] Well just that kind of person I suppose.
[James Whale:] Oh God.
[Sam:] I dunno.
[James Whale:] What do you do Jennifer? I'm just I'm interested.
[Sam:] I'm a domestic maintenance engineer.
[James Whale:] A housewife I see.
[Sam:] [LAUGHTER] Right you've heard that one before. Yes erm
[James Whale:] Yeah but housewives don't usually go to sleep at this time in the afternoon.
[Sam:] Right. I was up a six this morning does that
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] you know.
[James Whale:] Where's the old man?
[Sam:] Oh he isn't I'm on my own.
[James Whale:] Are you?
[Sam:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Oh probably just as well you can please yourself what you do now.
[Sam:] Exactly.
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Sam:] Yes yes. I do have two children though so
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Sam:] Halloween thing does affect me.
[James Whale:] Are they going out wanting to go out and sort of terrorize the neighbours or not?
[Sam:] Well they're not erm [chair scraping noise] I'm a practising Christian
[James Whale:] Oh that's a chair
[Sam:] and erm we're having an event at our church in Osbaldwick
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] called Saints Alive which is basically a fun thing sort of celebrating the lives of the Saints.
[James Whale:] I mean I don't understand why the church or the so called church or whatever you like to call it. There's the there's the big one in York isn't there I mean that's like number one in the land or number two in the land.
[Sam:] Yep.
[James Whale:] Why isn't he pontificating from the battlements about this. Why isn't he sort of shouting his mouth off about it. He shouts it off about lots of other things. I mean why doesn't he say something about it?
[Sam:] Well I don't know I mean I can't answer for them. Erm
[James Whale:] But as a as a member of his club you should be able to you should you should be able to bring power to bear on the er the top bod shouldn't you?
[Sam:] Well I don't know should we?
[James Whale:] Yeah of course you should. I yes people power.
[Sam:] individuals and we we can think how we like. I mean we're not sheep that
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] follow what someone else says. There are Christians who believe that there's nothing wrong with Halloween.
[James Whale:] I don't I mean I don't think really the majority of people who mess around at Halloween understand what what is really going on.
[Sam:] No exactly that's half the problem.
[James Whale:] Which I think is probably more of a problem for them than anything else.
[Sam:] Yes yes exactly. They don't realize just what is can lead to.
[James Whale:] You know look at the debate within the Church of England about erm er female priests female vicars female clergy whatever you want to call it.
[Sam:] Yep.
[James Whale:] There's no debate about Halloween. Here we are each year we have a huge celebration of the devil and nobody says a thing.
[Sam:] Yeah exactly. I mean it is wrong and I don't think people realize just how wrong it is until they really stop and think about it.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] I mean even I understand you were talking about the children sort of being out in the dark on their own erm even just something as simple as that. Who in their right minds is going to let their children out in the dark?
[James Whale:] Persuaded by the devil you see. Subliminally persuaded by the devil to let them out.
[Sam:] Yes well I don't know I mean C S Lewis says we take the devil in two ways. We either take him too seriously or we're too flippant about him.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] You know and either way is just dangerous.
[James Whale:] Yeah I agree with you I agree with you. Erm I I am surprised well I don't I'm not surprised really they're probably busy doing things but I thought we might have got a couple of vicars on this er this afternoon to talk about it. But they were probably asleep like you are.
[Sam:] Oh quite probably or preparing sermons for the morning
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Sam:] tell people how terribly bad it is tomorrow.
[James Whale:] Will they do that tomorrow?
[Sam:] Possibly.
[James Whale:] Yeah oh well never mind. Well er watch how you go you'd better go back to bed now I suppose.
[Sam:] Yes yes I think I'd better.
[James Whale:] All right.
[Sam:] Okay.
[James Whale:] Jennifer nice talking to you.
[Sam:] Nice talking to you thanks very much.
[James Whale:] Bye bye.
[Sam:] Bye bye.
[James Whale:] Okay that was Jennifer. If you want to join me you can pick up the phone give me a ring O nine O four six four one six four one. All those people who've never done it before and if you're in bed at the moment I'll perhaps have a chat with you while you're in bed this morning. It's afternoon keep saying that it's afternoon it's morning to me this afternoon pick up your phone and give me a ring now O nine O four six four one six four one. Erm hang on just a er just a er Simon? Hello Simon? Why is this not working? There's a phone call coming in. S hang on. Let me try Simon?
[Melanie:] Hello James
[James Whale:] Hi. Sorry about that Simon I don't know why we're not working here.
[Melanie:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] One of these little buttons isn't working terribly well. Er can you hang on a minute Simon?
[Melanie:] Yeah sure.
[James Whale:] Okay okay just so I can't I need a couple more calls to finish off the programme and take a couple more records er O nine O four six four one six four one would you ring me. Just O nine O four six four one six four one. Anybody anybody in there erm there who's er just doesn't even know why they're ring that would be quite nice. Simon why are you calling?
[Melanie:] Well the other day somebody asked me to sign a petition about date rape
[James Whale:] Yep.
[Melanie:] you reminded me of that. They the petition said that there is no difference between rape and date rape.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Melanie:] And er I was standing there I wasn't really sure whether I should sign it. Erm you know I thought thought but I'm not sure if there is a difference. I think there is a difference.
[James Whale:] I'm sure there's a difference. I'm sure there are there you know there's there is ordinary nasty horrid aggressive rape when you're you're you know like somebody's attacked from behind or something down a a dark alley. And then there is a different thing called date rape but there is no excuse for either I don't think.
[Melanie:] Well I'm not sure about that either. I mean certainly there's the horrid sort of thing that happens on date rape
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Melanie:] and you know with violence and that and then as you work your way along there'd be the sort of situation where there isn't any physical violence but there's intimidation and fear
[James Whale:] Yep.
[Melanie:] fear of violence and I think that's that's definitely out of order. And then you get you work your way along and you get to the situation where erm the woman is pressured by feelings of embarrassment or social pressure not to say no. And that's when I think it starts to get into into shady ground where where the woman hasn't actually said no because she feels intimidated not by violence but by social pressure. That's I mean that's maybe more the fault of society than it is the fault of the of the man that's involved. And then you get into the situations apparently where erm people decide after they've had sex
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Melanie:] that they didn't enjoy it and therefore it must have been rape cos they didn't wa they didn't like it. Erm and then I think you've you've clearly gone outside the definition of rape or outside you know a reasonable
[James Whale:] Yeah I would agree with that but I don't think there is er any excuse for a woman to or a man for that matter to say [reading] women deserve rape says M P's wife [].
[Melanie:] Oh no I mean he's g he's gotta go hasn't he?
[James Whale:] I mean if if a woman undresses okay let's take a scenario okay Simon maybe er you know you could put yourself in the same situation
[Melanie:] All right.
[James Whale:] been out with a woman's erm undressed in front of you you know you've done the bit you've er you've managed to er within three easy steps undo the bra with one hand whilst er telling her you know you're a really nice guy and there's no chance of going too far and all that sort of thing and you know you get you get fairly carried away you may even be under the sheets
[Melanie:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] you may even and this is a bit I mean Saturday lunchtime is a bit I'm almost almost er oh the producer's going, Careful careful, which he should know is a red flag to a bull and I might say [shouting] [] no but I won't. Er so maybe you're both even under the covers naked all right
[Melanie:] Mm mm.
[James Whale:] okay and then there're there're bits of your body that are are are you know your your your whole being is stirring
[Melanie:] Could be a bit hard to stop.
[James Whale:] It could be very hard to stop.
[Melanie:] Mm.
[James Whale:] So er as soon as the girl turns to you and says, Right I don't want to go any further that's it.
[Melanie:] Well it's it's annoying at that point.
[James Whale:] It's very annoying but that's when you have to stop.
[Melanie:] but you do have to stop but that isn't to say it isn't very annoying.
[James Whale:] Okay. But if you were to carry on and the woman was screaming [shouting] no no no no [] get off get off get off, as far as I'm concerned that's rape.
[Melanie:] That is yeah. But I think there's some there's some grey areas in there.
[James Whale:] there are but I mean it's it's silly for people to say once a man is sexually aroused it's quite difficult to stop isn't it? Well it is difficult to stop.
[Melanie:] I'm I'm surprised they haven't got rid of cynics already actually
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Melanie:] Erm
[James Whale:] Well he's not in he's out today he's out he and his wife are out cos we put a phone call in we said let's have a chat with him
[Melanie:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] We were just going to ask him about this [LAUGHTER] proposed pay rise [] that's all.
[Melanie:] This thing that that er his wife said about some women deserve it
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Melanie:] Funnily enough though there are there are feminist women who are who are saying similar things that saying that it is a bit irresponsible to have gotten into bed with someone and taken all your clothes off and then say no.
[James Whale:] Yeah but
[Melanie:] But as you say you at that point you do have to stop.
[James Whale:] How many though how many men have and you remember, I can just remember,
[Melanie:] [LAUGHTER]
[James Whale:] I mean just you know the the sort of, Well look er you know it doesn't mean I won't respect you and I don't love you and all that sort of thing.
[Melanie:] Er I'm not sure I share your experience there
[James Whale:] You see and er I mean er [drawn out] are you sure you don't want and er. We can be persuasive
[Melanie:] Mm.
[James Whale:] but there has to be a time when no is no.
[Melanie:] Just have to avoid being intimidated.
[James Whale:] Yes you're right. Simon thanks for calling.
[Melanie:] All right then.
[James Whale:] Bye.
[Melanie:] Bye.
[James Whale:] I don't know if I want to talk about this on a Saturday lunchtime I tell you Dan I mean it really is it's erm What are you doing?
[Danny:] I've thought of something.
[James Whale:] Oh have you. What have you thought of?
[Danny:] That silly judge who erm
[James Whale:] Oh.
[Danny:] said that he's no angel do you remember that case?
[James Whale:] Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
[Danny:] He's done it again.
[James Whale:] Has he done it again? He hasn't
[Danny:] still working.
[James Whale:] I'm I'm surprised at that hang on er we've got Mark on yellow what number is yellow twenty two. Hello Mark
[Alf:] Hello.
[James Whale:] Hi where are you?
[Alf:] In Scarborough.
[James Whale:] Okay hang on then Mark. Have you found it?
[Danny:] Not yet.
[James Whale:] Okay well look for it. Yes Mark?
[Alf:] I'm completely against Halloweening.
[James Whale:] You are?
[Alf:] Yep.
[James Whale:] Well you must be one of the very few I would have thought Mark.
[Alf:] Well I'm sick of it cos you see every year we get little kids coming round to our houses asking for trick or treat
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Alf:] and I live in a place where there's a lot of old people and they come round to us and they tell us they've been scared the night after
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Alf:] they tell us how scared they are and I don't like listening to it I getting sick of it now.
[James Whale:] You don't like listening to who?
[Alf:] Well the old people complain that they've been scared. Like we get big gangs of kids coming round.
[James Whale:] Why to they complain to you Mark?
[Alf:] Well we're friendly with them all.
[James Whale:] Friendly with who?
[Alf:] All the neighbours.
[James Whale:] Oh I see right. Yeah.
[Alf:] Erm well we're just sick of them. We get loads of kids coming round big gangs of kids scaring everyone. I mean they do it just don't make an effort they just come round demanding money.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Alf:] Well the best thing is a bucket of cold water by the door. No I jest it's not a good idea. Erm yeah well there we are I mean I I you're just talking to somebody who's converted really Mark I mean I think it's a waste of time it's er it's a sort of pagan festival Yes.
[James Whale:] it's a copy of something in America. There's nothing worse than when you're at home you don't want people banging unannounced on the door saying [mimicking] trick or treat []. Because I know what I'm going to say to any kids who have the audacity to come to my house which they won't but erm and I'm sure a lot of people do so the rest of the year we we're encouraging children not to approach strangers and everything else and then this one day of the year or maybe two days or maybe the whole run-up from now until November the fifth you've got kids begging on the street penny for the guy and all that sort of thing.
[Alf:] Yes.
[James Whale:] It's just a mockery. It's a mockery.
[Alf:] Disgusting. Well if they come round to ours this year I'll invite them in I'll take them to my basement and I'll lock 'em up for a few days.
[James Whale:] Well joking apart that's the sort of thing that could happen to kids and er you you know you wonder why parents let them out.
[Alf:] Take 'em around somewhere like Michael Sands's house.
[James Whale:] Yeah we can't really turn him up he's fully up actually. Sorry I can't turn you up. Why is all that [shouting] noise going on behind you []?
[Alf:] Me? Cos I'm at Scarborough seafront.
[James Whale:] You're at Scarborough seafront.
[Alf:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] In a phone box?
[Alf:] No.
[James Whale:] Mobile phone. What?
[Alf:] [LAUGHTER] Selling ice-creams. []
[James Whale:] Oh selling ice-creams
[Alf:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Yeah is it busy there at the moment?
[Alf:] Not bad.
[James Whale:] Cos it's pretty miserable outside isn't it
[Alf:] customers waiting but there you go.
[James Whale:] Have you?
[Alf:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] You give the phone to the next customer. Who's the next customer.
[Alf:] Next customer's the lady waiting here.
[James Whale:] Let me talk to her.
[Alf:] Do you want to talk to her?
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Alf:] Excuse me. Do you want to talk to James Whale on the radio?
[James Whale:] [mimicking] Who? []
[Alf:] Do you want to talk to him? He wants to talk to you. Don't you? No one wants to speak to you.
[James Whale:] Well make her speak. What did you tell her it was me for that's a putter-off for a start. Why didn't you just thrust the phone into her hand?
[Alf:] They're all scared you know.
[James Whale:] Are they?
[Alf:] Yep.
[James Whale:] Yeah. Are they they they your regular customers?
[Alf:] Well not really.
[James Whale:] I see. And they know what you're doing at the moment do they whilst you're not serving them ice-cream.
[Alf:] illicit phone calls.
[James Whale:] Oh you're make illicit phone calls.
[Alf:] I've been listening to your programme all morning so.
[James Whale:] I see.
[Alf:] I'll have to go.
[James Whale:] Okay watch how you go. Bye.
[Alf:] Bye.
[James Whale:] Fancy telling them it's me no wonder it's going to put off. Er the judge who said an eight year old sex victim was no angel, you remember the one of course, yesterday freed two men who had intercourse with a thirteen year old. They he freed two men. Ian heard from police that the girl was more like Mandy Smith than the proverbial school girl and gave both men conditional discharges. He then told the court I had better not say she was an angel or no angel or the national press will have a hundred field days. She was a girl trying to find young men to satisfy her sexual desires. He added, I have to pass a sentence because it is against the law. It would be folly to pass a custodial sentence whatever the Court of Appeal may think. The seventy one year old judge caused uproar in June when he said an eight year old victim of a sex attack was not entirely an angel herself. He gave student Karl two years probation for attempted unlawful sexual intercourse. The Court of Appeal increased his sentence to four months jail yesterday. Judge Hill gave two year conditional discharges to Philip twenty one from Southampton and Keith nineteen of nearby Hythe for unlawful intercourse. Now I don't know because you know there's a photograph in that story of Mandy Smith as well and er Mandy Smith looked like Mandy Smith from about the age of fourteen. Erm any views? You might give us a call O nine O four six four one six four one. John is er on blue on blue on blue on blue twenty three John hello. Hello John? Hello John
[Danny:] Good after good afternoon.
[James Whale:] Got you John yes John.
[Danny:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Hi.
[Danny:] Hello....
[James Whale:] Er you're on John.
[Danny:] Yes.
[James Whale:] You're on the air John. [banging] Your turn John.
[Danny:] Good afternoon.
[James Whale:] I beg your pardon John.
[Danny:] Do you want to hear my opinions about er what we spoke about yesterday? Er you were on about ye I spoke yesterday about Halloween.
[James Whale:] Oh did you it wasn't me but yes go on you you feel free.
[Danny:] Must have been somebody else. [LAUGHTER] Okay well er there are seem one
[James Whale:] I mean is it worth it? You might as well
[Danny:] children isn't it
[James Whale:] might as well go home. Yes John.
[Danny:] Hello.
[James Whale:] Hello.
[Danny:] [LAUGHTER] What's going on? []
[James Whale:] Haven't a clue John we're all mad aren't we?
[Danny:] [LAUGHTER] Well some of us.
[James Whale:] I'll take a lead from you. Anyway John you go on.
[Danny:] Right.
[James Whale:] Yeah. [banging]
[Danny:] You still there?
[James Whale:] Yes I'm here John. You all right? Good good good good.
[Danny:] Right.
[James Whale:] I keep hearing funny noises
[Danny:] Yes I do.
[James Whale:] Yes.
[Danny:] [LAUGHTER] Must be Halloween or
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Danny:] supposed to be
[James Whale:] Let me get that right again John you said you keep hearing funny noises. Yeah.
[Danny:] that you silly
[James Whale:] Ooh! [sound of glass being knocked]
[Danny:] [LAUGHTER] I lie in here.
[James Whale:] I don't know I don't know you should've Have you got your hands sort of tied up behind you in that sort of coat thing?
[Danny:] I haven't got anything.
[James Whale:] Haven't you I have.
[Danny:] Oh right.
[James Whale:] All right.
[Danny:] Have we stopped playing er are we are we serious now?
[James Whale:] Are you serious?
[Danny:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Good that's all it needs is one of us to be serious and we're okay.
[Danny:] [LAUGHTER] Right.
[James Whale:] John.
[Danny:] Hallow
[James Whale:] You're on the air yeah.
[Danny:] Yes Halloween. Right you were talking about its affect on children
[James Whale:] Mm.
[Danny:] and er I've discussed this before and I've come to the conclusion that these children who come along with Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on your door they're more affected than any child once a year practising whatever you like to call it Halloween or whatever. That was basically my argument.
[James Whale:] So excuse me for being a little thick.
[Danny:] Yes.
[James Whale:] I didn't I what what d'ya mean?
[Danny:] Well when the Jehovah's and the other religious cults come knocking at the door with their various pamphlet and trying to persuade you that their religion is better than others
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Danny:] they have these very young children with them
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[Danny:] and er I think they're more affected by outside influences brainwash whatever you like to call it than one night a year of Halloween.
[James Whale:] Yeah well okay er possibly but er I think you're missing the point actually. I mean Halloween is it's a pagan ritual it's there to worship the devil it's the most poignant date in the calendar if you want to get into black magic if you want to dance naked round er a sheep's heart with sticks stuck through it.
[Danny:] Hey hey I say all these kids are doing is walking round with a bloody turnip with a candle in it. They're not learning about religion where they don't believe in blood transfusions etcetera etcetera seven or eight year old.
[James Whale:] Yes but I think you know you have to give [sigh]
[Danny:] Go on.
[James Whale:] You have to give a little bit of er credibility there for people not being quite that dim don't you?
[Danny:] Not quite that dim?
[James Whale:] Well I mean we we're not really er [cough]. If Jehovah's Witnesses come to the door
[Danny:] Yes.
[James Whale:] you know what it's all about. Okay? You either let them in for two reasons. You let them in to have a laugh at them or you let them in because you want to listen to what they're saying. Okay?
[Danny:] Yes.
[James Whale:] You cannot put that together with Halloween which basically is people going out thinking they're going out to have fun and they're having a bit of a laugh and everything else where's there's their underlying er connection with the devil.
[Danny:] I don't think children realize it is a connection with the devil
[James Whale:] But isn't isn't that the most dangerous thing?
[Danny:] No no I think the consistent and persistent influence in the children which some of these religious cults have I think that's more dangerous than one one two nights of a candle in a in a turnip or whatever.
[James Whale:] Yes but could they not be brainwashed if you like into thinking well there's nothing much wrong there isn't such a thing as evil
[Danny:] No no.
[James Whale:] You don't think so?
[Danny:] evil isn't there?
[James Whale:] Well of course there's evil yeah.
[Danny:] And I think pretend there isn't evil.
[James Whale:] Okay thank you for your call John.
[Danny:] Okay.
[James Whale:] You enjoyed that didn't you? Be honest.
[Danny:] Well
[James Whale:] Yeah be honest you enjoyed it.
[Danny:] interesting talking to er
[James Whale:] A nut case I know exactly how you feel.
[Danny:] Different opinions.
[James Whale:] Thank you John.
[Danny:] Okay bye bye.
[James Whale:] Bye bye. Er right thank you John. Erm go back up here. Now we've got Sir Frederick erm I can't see the Sir Frederick Lawton retired senior judge on the phone. Sir Frederick good erm afternoon to you.
[David:] Good afternoon.
[James Whale:] Er we really wanted to know what your view on erm Sir Nicholas Fairburn's outburst both in the Commons I suppose and er reported the outburst of his wife on the front page of the Daily Mirror today.
[David:] Well I haven't seen that outburst but er I understand that he suggested
[James Whale:] Could I read it to you?
[David:] Yes please.
[James Whale:] Sor let me read. First of all the headline says, [reading] Women deserve rape says M P's wife [], and then the front page exclusive, [reading] Many women deserve to be raped a Tory M P's wife said yesterday. Sir Nicholas Fairburn's wife Sam backed her husband's astonishing views that there is no such crime as rape [].
[David:] Well that's absolute rubbish. I've had I think more experience of what a rape in court than Sir Nicholas. He may have had more experience outside court than I have because I've had none. But in court I have probably dealt with more rape cases than any other living lawyer. And my experience has been that virtually all rape cases have been the forcible interference with a woman.
[James Whale:] So why do you think Sir Nicholas and his wife have both come out and said something as ridiculous as this? They also go on to say that a lot of women deserve to be raped.
[David:] Well that again is nonsense. There is unfortunately a theory around which is of long standing to that effect. I presided over a the Criminal Law Revision Committee when we reviewed the law relating to rape and we discovered that there was this myth that women asked for rape. It is a myth.
[James Whale:] Why in in that case do you think that Sir Nicholas and he he he's not stupid, I mean he's a career politician, he's come out and said this his wife has said that they're both smiling on the front page of the newspaper at the moment and they go on to say it's not fair on a man if a women undresses and then changes her mind.
[David:] Well that may it may be unfair and until recently that kind of situation never came before the courts. There has unfortunately in my opinion been a change of attitude about which cases to prosecute
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] and in some of these cases there ought not to be a prosecution. But that doesn't mean that the ordinary case is one in which the woman is in any way asking to be raped.
[James Whale:] Now Sir Frederick, recently the police have made great strides forward in encouraging women to come and report rape because until recently they didn't and they didn't want to they didn't want to face the shame and they didn't want to face everything else, Sir Nicholas and and again his wife which is the most worrying I think of this a women saying that that that women deserve to be raped, erm it's going to make women less likely to come forward isn't it?
[David:] Well i I agree. But again I think it has been unfortunate er er that recently there have been a few cases in which it would have been better not to prosecute
[James Whale:] Mhm.
[David:] but they are a minority of cases. In most cases that I've dealt with and I've f I repeat I've probably dealt with more than any other living person in court, er there has been a clear case of rape.
[James Whale:] Could I move on from that Sir Frederick just to ask you whilst you're on the phone your views on er the story in the Daily Mail today. Er Judge Ian I'm sure you'll be familiar with him he is the judge who
[David:] I I know him personally.
[James Whale:] Right. Er he said or he's in a in a in a little trouble today for allowing two men who had sex of thirteen to go free erm a policeman told the judge that the thirteen year old was more like Mandy Smith than the proverbial school girl with pigtails but she was nevertheless thirteen and the judge said he had better not say she was no angel or the national press would have a hundred field days with him. Is there not some call on judges to be just a little a a little more respectful perhaps when they're they're dealing with cases like this rather than as flippant as he
[David:] Well I I agree about that. I think that er Judge er 's remarks were a little unfortunate er but er he's now ret nearing retirement and occasionally all of us, I've done it myself
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] in the past, make remarks which I regret. Er but the basis of what he had to say is presents a problem which do face judges in the class of case. Er unfortunately one has cases from time to time on girls of this age who set out to entice men. Er it's unfortunate that they should but when the men succumb to their er approaches then it's always a very difficult
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] problem as to what to do about it.
[James Whale:] Well the men although they may not have realized they were thirteen must have been pretty stupid not to realize they were perhaps below consent age.
[David:] Oh yes well I agree about that. But a great deal depends on the circumstances. I have experience of this class of case over a period of more than fifty years and it hasn't been uncommon in the past even in the days when judges took a more rigorous view than they cline er inclined to do nowadays not to punish er in any with a custodial
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] sentence as men youngish men not older men youngish men who behave in this way.
[James Whale:] Now Judge as you you said you know er and erm Sir Frederick I know you're retired now, he's seventy one do you think there should be a mandatory retirement age for judges perhaps. That maybe they get to a certain time when they're going to be out of touch?
[David:] has it that it should be seventy from the future.
[James Whale:] Mm.
[David:] It all depends on the judge. I mean I remember judges who were were er much younger than seventy who were beyond it. On the other hand I remember judges who were over seventy five. The most outstanding judge in my lifetime has been Lord Reed. Er he does he doesn't figure very much in the [LAUGHTER] tabloids []
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[David:] because
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[David:] he he was so good that he never annoyed anybody by silly remarks. But he was well over eighty when he retired.
[James Whale:] Do you think we should have slightly younger judges. I mean there is the move to make people judges earlier than they have been recently?
[David:] Well it depends upon what you mean by early. As Lord er the Lord Chief Justice said in a television programme Question Time er two nights ago it takes a good deal of experience before somebody's qualified to be a judge and when you do become a judge you have a great deal to learn. You know there was an old legal story er saying rather er that er in the first five years that a a j a man is appointed a judge he doesn't know the job. In the next five years he thinks he does but doesn't. And in the last five years he's too old to do it.
[James Whale:] That's worrying. I don't want to appear in front a judge in his first [LAUGHTER] five years then [].
[David:] But that that's the problem that we all have [tape change] This is one of the problems that the ju burdens that the judge has to bear.
[James Whale:] Did you in your time ever send a man to execution?
[David:] No I I only tried three capital murder cases and all three they got acquitted.
[James Whale:] Were you were you glad about that?
[David:] In two of them I was.
[James Whale:] Sir Frederick thank you for er speaking to me this afternoon.
[David:] Thank you.
[James Whale:] Interesting talking to you bye bye
[David:] Good bye.
[James Whale:] Okay er we move on over six seven minutes to go before the end of the programme. Let's talk to er Steve erm where are hang on just one moment whilst I find you. Hello Steve?
[Michael:] Hello James
[James Whale:] Hi.
[Michael:] Hello. Just er one final comment about this Halloween. Really with very few exceptions it's simply a bit of harmless fun. I mean let's face it
[James Whale:] That's always the worse thing isn't it whe the the most annoying this when it's [mimicking] harmless fun [].
[Michael:] Er yeah.
[James Whale:] [mimicking] Come into my parlour said the spider to the fly. []
[Michael:] Horror films. What's your comment about those? I mean
[James Whale:] Do you believe in devil?
[Michael:] Television
[James Whale:] Do you believe in the devil?
[Michael:] on children than any other media.
[James Whale:] I agree Steve I agree. Do you believe in the devil though? Do you believe that Halloween has any kind of place with the devil or not?
[Michael:] No.
[James Whale:] You don't.
[Michael:] I don't.
[James Whale:] Er then there is nothing I can say to change your mind. I mean you will you will go on merrily your own sweet way and erm I I hope nothing happens to sort of
[Michael:] I mean we we we don't er we don't dance on sheep's hearts here in Gate Helmsley.
[James Whale:] Well I don't know because North Yorkshire's pretty sort of erm er pretty rife as far as black magic is concerned.
[Michael:] Well you
[James Whale:] And d'ya know I I'm beginning to think you sort of protest so much that [LAUGHTER] maybe [] you're a leader of a coven or something.
[Michael:] Erm
[James Whale:] Put on the old sheep's head and dance naked round the bonfire.
[Michael:] Is that right? Well no I'm not no I'm not. It's just that I mean this is the only thing about Halloween that I don't like is the import from America of this trick or treat nonsense.
[James Whale:] Yep.
[Michael:] I don't like that one bit. But leave that to one side
[James Whale:] But that's only because it's an [LAUGHTER] American idea that's the only reason you don't like it []
[Michael:] No no I I don't I don't like it er it er no I simply don't like it. I can't really tell you why it's just I don't like the don't like the idea of children going round er begging for treats, treats money whatever it might be.
[James Whale:] Yes I agree with you there.
[Michael:] But I really to believe that Halloween does has no real influence. There are always exceptions you know to the rule.
[James Whale:] Okay Steve thank you for your call. You think it has no problem and er we'll squeeze in one more call before the end of the programme. And that's Christine from Harrogate hello Christine. Hello Christine speak to me.
[speaker003:] turn the radio off
[James Whale:] You what? You've got to turn the radio off. Have you turned the radio off? Come back to the phone [LAUGHTER] Christine []. Hello Christine.
[speaker003:] Hello.
[James Whale:] Hi.
[speaker003:] Hello.
[James Whale:] Hello.
[speaker003:] Erm I'm with you on this trick and er treat thing. Now I've heard people
[James Whale:] No you're not I'm not going trick or treating.
[speaker003:] say that they do this so they can get money for fireworks for Guy Fawkes night.
[James Whale:] Have you heard people say that?
[speaker003:] He's not answering.
[James Whale:] I am I don't know what there's a cut on this. What's where where's where's the where's the cut off come on this flipping phone?
[speaker003:] No it isn't
[James Whale:] It i hang on I can hear you. Hello can you hear?
[speaker003:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Is that better?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[James Whale:] Okay right off you go.
[speaker003:] I well I agree with you on this er trick or treat. Erm people say they come round they come round with their children
[James Whale:] Mm.
[speaker003:] er mothers to g they say what they don't want treats as in sweets they want money to buy fireworks
[James Whale:] And he fixed it
[speaker003:] to buy fireworks for bonfire night.
[James Whale:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] And I disagree that they should. It's begging.
[James Whale:] You think it's begging.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[James Whale:] Yeah. Er I well I agree but I mean parents seem to be quite keen for their er their children to out and do it.
[speaker003:] Yes erm but it is begging and it is it is pagan.
[James Whale:] Yeah. So you won't be letting yours out?
[speaker003:] No.
[James Whale:] Okay.
[speaker003:] No.
[James Whale:] Okay Christine thank you for your call. Bye bye
[speaker003:] Bye.
[James Whale:] Erm I don't know whether we had gremlins in there or er or not in the end I really couldn't decide actually to be honest. Taking us to the news at two a little music for you and er hopefully I shall return next Saturday at twelve o'clock. Until then from all of us here on the Whales Show on B B C Radio York a very good afternoon to you. Bye bye. [music] Oh did we play this we did didn't we. I didn't mean to play that at all. [music] I think we played this one too. Did we play this one? No we didn't play this one did we? Cos the trouble with C Ds you see you can't see them going round you don't know which one you finished with. [music to end of recording]