[speaker001:] discussions with Richard
[Robert:] Robert.
[Rod:] Robert sorry here you go. That'll come out on there you see and I'll get tell myself off. That's probably cos you know. We've gotta design redesign this cos everybody off. Oh sorry apologize to the last guy he didn't. Richard while I'm having oh
[Robert:] It's that again.
[Rod:] That was a Richard.
[Robert:] Cut.
[Rod:] Robert while I'm having a look. Yeah edit that. While I'm having a look at this just a quick glance through erm there's the er range of products that we print design publish, we don't sell them, for our clients. Erm if you'd like to have a quick glance through them.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Just get your feel for it.
[Robert:] Yep....
[Rod:] I'll have I'll have hopefully described them as as much as I can over the erm over the phone but er and of course the brochure. Did what did you glean for the erm company brochure?
[Robert:] Very professional.
[Rod:] Mhm.
[Robert:] Er forward going. Always looking to, how can I put this, upgrade things is it like you know.
[Rod:] Pardon?
[Robert:] All these looking to upgrade things you know. Er going forward.
[Rod:] Okay. Oh sure.
[Robert:] Er you know and
[Rod:] Yeah yeah. Four years ago the erm er two thirds of those products weren't in existence.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Erm the law has helped us. Legislation helped us with the medical practice booklets.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] The law also helped us allowing a lot of professional companies to advertise which they couldn't. You know like accountants solicitors doctors chemists. None of those could advertise So in so it's broadened the number of er prospective advertisers that we can approach.
[Robert:] Yeah. Totally new this industry so
[Rod:] Erm I have to say that most of the people that come to us have never been involved in advertising.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] One of the things I am obviously gonna have to look at is the what you've done in the last two or three years because traditionally erm we wouldn't ask van drivers to come along and see us.
[Robert:] Yeah well there's there's
[Rod:] But there's there had to have been
[Robert:] there's a good reason for that.
[Rod:] Yeah right.
[Robert:] Well I wouldn't
[Rod:] Well I I would well I'd feel
[Robert:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] I'd feel more comfortable with people at least who have made an attempt to er to do something to earn a living.
[Robert:] Well I've never signed on the dole so
[Rod:] You're trying to avoid that.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] I haven't although a lot of people would say I was silly for not having done. Because I probably lost out on a lot of money.
[Robert:] Well I well I tell a lie I tried it once.
[Rod:] Mhm.
[Robert:] Er in between sales
[Rod:] Aha.
[Robert:] jobs. Er and I was told that I wasn't entitled to any money anyway because I was self-employed and I only paid the stamp.
[Rod:] Yes well that's exactly what they said to me.
[Robert:] And er you know I thought well
[Rod:] Thoroughly annoyed me because I'd er every year when I'd paid my tax I'd pay my er national insurance and as far I'm concerned that should've entitled me.
[Robert:] Yeah yeah.
[Rod:] Oh you can income support but it's not why should I be any different. I think it's something that they probably have to look at fairly seriously because er I think you do the Government a a lot of favours by going self-employed.
[Robert:] Of course you do. You take self take the employment figures down for a start.
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Robert:] Er yeah I mean that that's never been discussed by anybody or know or
[Rod:] Mm.
[Robert:] anything or it's never published that if you go self-employed
[Rod:] No er I I I have
[Robert:] er if you're out of work you're it takes small businesses of.
[Rod:] Erm and one of the things I could've done was to em er become a salaried employee of my own company which was a limited company but I paid myself as a consultant.
[Robert:] Yeah rather than a director.
[Rod:] Yeah. And nobody told me that. And you're supposed to know all about the bits of paper that they issue. It does annoy me. Anyway that's got that's put the world to rights hasn't it?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Okay er Robert. There you are I got it right for
[Robert:] Yeah I'll confuse now call me Paul [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] [LAUGHTER] That's right yeah. [] Thank you. Erm well first of all er I'll I'll come back to that. First of all the company is very serious about taking up references.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] And they ask for four for a very good reason. At least they want to get a cross-section. If may be one doesn't respond at least we've got a good er
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] And quite honestly if two give er a good references but I would I would have to address that once we decide
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] er what the outcome of this is going to be today. Er now let's go back over oh first of all let me explain what the idea is [phone rings] Hello. It is indeed. Hi Lynn. Oh that's fine okay. Yeah very kind of you call because some people don't. Lynn than thanks very much. Bye bye. Yes we get a lot of people who don't turn up at least a a phone call is er
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] Must make a note of that.... Yes I wanted to erm outline what the you know the purpose of these discussions today er so that we can get to the point where we can get into er get into more detail. Erm first of
[Robert:] Er
[Rod:] Did I speak to you originally?
[Robert:] You did yeah.
[Rod:] Okay. So I would have heard enough on the phone er because I haven't got my original notes here, I would have heard enough on the phone er Robert to have suggested that it was a good idea to get face to face. So there's a lot of the discussions have taken place and also I would have briefed you a bit er
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] on on what it was. Self employed commission only. I would have said at forty one you know you er you're still probably young enough to get a salaried job but we decided that it might be worth er you trying this avenue. The brochure also would have outlined a number of other aspects in in more detail than I could give you on the phone. And today really is er decision day that er first of all we'll get one of the hurdles out of the way whether you and I think that this is a good
[Robert:] You think yeah.
[Rod:] er way for you to be er earning some money. I know that a lot of money can be earned. I've experienced it myself and there are a plenty of top earners in our company who er arrive in a Porsche and er and er things like that. So some big money earners. Erm once that hurdle's out of the way if it is a hurdle er once once we've agreed on that er the next decision we'll make is on er which company you and I think that you're more be comfortable the environment in which you er we operate. Because we all do the same thing. A hundred and seventy five I think was the last count that we have around the U K all selling advertising. And the only difference between them er one group and another is may be the pitch is slightly different and the benefits. Otherwise, oh and the pricing is slightly different,
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] otherwise it's er er all the same. We're doing all the same. Certainly the opportunities to earn all the same er er er are the same across all companies. All right opportunities.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Erm so that you know it's it's a luxury that I have. I'm looking it's not one job for one person in one company today. It is I'm looking for five er may be for each of those companies so that's thirty people I could be looking for. I'm not but I you know could be.
[Robert:] Yeah could be.
[Rod:] But I want somebody in every one of those companies. So there's not a problem. So you're not in competition with anybody else.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] Erm and the other aspect of course is when. We do like people to give us a commitment on the spot on on all of those three counts. Er when we have a training course for all of these companies. There's no way we're going to send people out er to sell advertising er particularly as the majority of people have never done that before.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Certainly it's not in your background and it's not in most people's I have to say. Erm and er er we don't hide behind reject letters. If I don't think you're suitable and if I don't think this is for you I'll I'll say
[Robert:] You'll tell me yeah. Straight up.
[Rod:] I'll be up front with you.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Erm I also want and because I
[Robert:] You'll say
[Rod:] well I'll give the commitment. If you say if you don't think this is for you you've got to tell me that. Erm I don't go into big sales pitch you know to bring you into the company. What I will do is emphasize what we you know where you can go in terms of money- wise. And the other thing is is when. Now accordingly to your application form here er you you've no problem you can start
[Robert:] yeah.
[Rod:] All right. And I will give you that commitment as well. I'll say, Fine you want to start with us you want to start in this company here's your date for your course fully expensed. Travel hotel bills everything. Then out on to an assignment or with somebody in the field for a couple of days whichever company you go into. All right? So
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] that's if you like the the big picture. I'm now going to put on the lights... that's better I thought it was a bit dull in here. It was lovely and sunny when I first came in
[Robert:] You were nice when that light was on.
[Rod:] Aye?
[Robert:] You were nice in the first light. [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Yeah yeah now I can actually see what you look like. Okay well you really want to with us don't you? Don't go slanging the [LAUGHTER] recruiter right. You gotta you'll get a flashback off the top of my head []. Okay Robert Bob
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Erm your background here. That's have a look through this. First of all erm we'll you you you've obviously been round the construction industry a bit. If I can interpret these. Erm a roofing contractor for for twelve years there right?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] That was is was that the doing the selling er you've got roofing foreman here but that was the doing of was it?
[Robert:] That was the doing of yep.
[Rod:] Okay. Erm that was for twelve years. And then you make what a lot of people would be er consider er er a quantum leap.
[Robert:] Into sales.
[Rod:] Into sales from being what I would call an artisan and er I don't know what you would call yourself, but somebody who does things erm er on a er manual stroke artisan type work, over to sales. Home security systems I have to say that home improvements is the most likely jeep er leap that people will take first time
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] and or merchandising for one of the confectionery companies whatever. Explain why why what was behind your your leap into sales?
[Robert:] At the time er well I've always through the roofing right you you come up against site fore you know site foreman general foreman clerk of works and I I've always got on well with I can always talk to people.
[Rod:] Okay.
[Robert:] Er when the building trade or that company moved out the north east. I was with them in Glasgow as well they were a national company and I came down here from Glasgow.
[Rod:] This is what?
[Robert:] H H.
[Rod:] Oh sorry oh the first one yeah
[Robert:] The first one yeah.
[Rod:] Okay.
[Robert:] I came down here because they were running out of work in Scotland initially. And er then Mrs Thatcher if you like and cut back council er subsidies and things happened and the work just ran out. Right it was mostly skilled
[Rod:] And this was why the company pulled out of the, it says out of the north, are they still in existence or were they in
[Robert:] I I don't know.
[Rod:] No in eighty four they they weren't going under they were
[Robert:] Oh no no no they just pulled away. Er I went back down south again. Er as I say they were a U K company.
[Rod:] Were you sort of left stranded then or did
[Robert:] Yes.
[Rod:] you have something in er is this when you
[Robert:] That's when I went in with myself.
[Rod:] Okay.
[Robert:] It was it was somebody I knew er in the club.
[Rod:] So it was a contact?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] All right.
[Robert:] Er
[Rod:] Who told you you could sell probably. [LAUGHTER] That's how I got into it that's for sure.
[Robert:] Yeah well he said er I don't see any reason why you couldn't you know.
[Rod:] Yes.
[Robert:] I've always been a sort of I won't say outgoing personality let's say right. Er
[Rod:] Extrovert.
[Robert:] Yeah well.
[Rod:] It's another posh word for it.
[Robert:] Yeah. [sniff] I always take people at face value and talk to people.
[Rod:] Okay right.
[Robert:] You know. Er never had any fear of that.
[Rod:] Right.
[Robert:] I look at a person and if you like me you like me
[Rod:] Well that's let's face it
[Robert:] if you don't well you don't.
[Rod:] let's face it that's half the battle.
[Robert:] Er
[Rod:] Okay.
[Robert:] So I got into that. Erm
[Rod:] And in Newcastle are are a local company obviously.
[Robert:] Well again er they were U K based you know nationwide.
[Rod:] Nation nationally.
[Robert:] Yeah national company. Er but I unbeknownst to myself and near the end it was a sales manager that had a team of men under me and you know and things like that. And then all of a sudden in a span of about three month a lot of deals started er going by the wayside let's say right. You know guys were bringing in deals I was going out and selling
[Rod:] Aha.
[Robert:] cos you can't let one alone
[Rod:] No.
[Robert:] as you probably know. And they were going in the next morning, oh they'd phoned up they'd cancelled. Er I've talked them back in but it's a house account so obviously there's no money in for me you see?
[Rod:] Oh that's what you mean by erm
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] auth unauthorized deal. Okay.
[Robert:] It was the nicest way I could have thought of put it. What happened was they were actually starting
[Rod:] You probably wanted to use stronger language though did you R er Bob?
[Robert:] Yeah and that sort of espionage. You know but that's. What was happening was they were starting they were ready to start up their own company to hire managers.
[Rod:] Oh right.
[Robert:] And so and we were bringing in deals and they were phoning the clients back and saying, Look yeah great alarm systems blah blah we have an alternative one cheaper. And they were fitting in their own until they got up and running.
[Rod:] Okay.
[Robert:] So you know.
[Rod:] Well you lasted there for a couple of years. What what do what do you feel you gained most from er from this er this first two years in sales?
[Robert:] In sales? Confidence in myself again.
[Rod:] Aha.
[Robert:] You know just getting well cos as you know you don't know who you're gonna talk to.
[Rod:] Sure.
[Robert:] You knock a door and the door opens and that's your first contact with the person.
[Rod:] So of course course these were by the title there, Home security, these were all domestic were they you didn't deal with businesses
[Robert:] Didn't do commercial.
[Rod:] Okay right.
[Robert:] No. Er it was all home security systems. Er very high tech very expensive. That's another thing I found
[Rod:] The er infra red
[Robert:] the system wire free
[Rod:] Yeah okay.
[Robert:] was all transistorized.
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Robert:] Er
[Rod:] Totally wire free?
[Robert:] Well there was two wires. From the main from the main box one to mains one to the outside
[Rod:] Yeah okay well that's
[Robert:] signal box.
[Rod:] system I've got yeah.
[Robert:] Yes one I've got as well. A good system. Er and from then You know again it was a professional company it start with we were doing in Manchester for a week's training.
[Rod:] This is?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Aha.
[Robert:] Er very professional course. Very professional. For somebody that had never been in sales before you remember a lot from the course
[Rod:] Ah that that was that was yes that was really what I was going to er behind my question or included in my question, is that what did you learn from that
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] is that er er you know you you certainly need some training and backup.
[Robert:] You need good training. And it was a very intensive course.
[Rod:] All right.
[Robert:] Anyway the way a course should be run. Er they take you up for twenty minutes intensive and then drop it
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Robert:] for ten and then take you know so you can absorb things.
[Rod:] I I haven't been on one of our courses for a little while but I think that's very similar to er
[Robert:] That's the way it should be. You can't cram
[Rod:] You see you may have been in sales but in advertise this is erm
[Robert:] Well it's
[Rod:] entirely different
[Robert:] totally different sell yep. Erm
[Rod:] All right. But I er what did you learn about people in those two years especially the er the people in the company you worked for.
[Robert:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] You watched the watched the shysters watched out for the shysters.
[Robert:] Yeah oh a lot of back stabbing going on. Well direct sales you you know I always tried to sort of stay away from companies that you know had a reputation for that.
[Rod:] Okay.
[Robert:] Right. Always sold expensive
[Rod:] Right.
[Robert:] for the reason the product was worth it.
[Rod:] Okay.
[Robert:] You know I I I've never I
[Rod:] Yeah we're I'll tell you right now we're not the cheapest, sorry the least expensive I should say.
[Robert:] That's right I I have
[Rod:] the least expensive.
[Robert:] I have deviated from that one as well I don't like the word. But er if you get into that sort of squabble er price cutting and things like that
[Rod:] Aha.
[Robert:] I believe your credibility goes out the window for a start.
[Rod:] Mm.
[Robert:] If you sell product like that you get more hassle with it.
[Rod:] Well you've just you've just er allow you've just said something that allows me er to bring in er the way in which we approach advertising sales er Robert because er all of us who've been in tra traditional sales, and I'm I'm just er that was my background as well er in addition to recruitment, er we are not used to giving everything over the phone before we go to see the people. We are literally only trying to get the appointments so that we can
[Robert:] That's right break breaking the
[Rod:] ooze our personality show our lovely brochures and product range and say, not even mention the price until they say, I want that one. Er well okay it'll cost you this. And they may have chosen the most expensive. But because they've you've sold it to them. In advertising sales we actually do all that on the phone and then, but all our our personality comes across.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] And because we could chase our tail. You can make a dozen appointments that were advertising and you may come out with one deal. Whereas when we make appointments to see people we are there
[Robert:] It's to sign up.
[Rod:] to sign up.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Okay. Now there's nothing wrong with that. I've discovered that because I I've sold advertising. I've discovered that that is the only way, with one or two exceptions that might occur, the only way to stop yourself wasting an awful lot of time.
[Robert:] It saves you money.
[Rod:] You've got a limited number of slots to sell so you don't need to go thrashing around the country
[Robert:] That's right hard sell.
[Rod:] using your own petrol. That's it you must get a commitment on the phone. Say well I'm only I'm gonna come to you to sign you up.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] I'll tell you everything you want to know on the telephone now. Price size what it's going to do for you. Two years contract banker's order deposit cheque. Er I'm just listing out there
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] are plenty of others they'll tell you on the course.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Because erm it's gonna save you an awful lot of time and money. And we know from twenty years experience of doing this
[Robert:] It works.
[Rod:] that it works very well. Our top earners will tell you there's no secret to earning twelve hundred quid a week. Just except work.
[Robert:] Mhm.
[Rod:] And listening to the people who've been doing it for years. Okay well you you erm you cut your teeth on home security systems. Found out there are some people you have to keep your eye on. And cover your back. N E H I, that's close to being N E I which is a big company in N E I Parsons.
[Robert:] It's.
[Rod:] Right okay thank you you've just preempted my next question.
[Robert:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Based in er in Newcastle. Home improvements what were they in?
[Robert:] Double glazing.
[Rod:] Double glazing.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Okay. Because there are quite a range of home improvements
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] You've just hit on home improvement companies are legitimately go into all of our products if they want to.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] There's none none that can say, It's no good me going in the schools one. Because they have two thousand parents. There's no excuse for them not to go into the medical practice booklet because they've got fifteen thousand patients or thereabouts. There's no excuse in fact they are very supportive of course of the estate agents.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Because they're all prospective home buyers. So you've hit on an area that er make up a big advertising chunk that we have. Okay now you you er what from your experience with home security systems were you able to take to er N E H I?
[Robert:] Just er selling steps I suppose.
[Rod:] Okay. What what you'd learned from did they send you on a
[Robert:] No.
[Rod:] course? No. So it was hands on
[Robert:] It was well there was an ongoing training every morning sort of thing. You know you went in and you went out with the reps and
[Rod:] Massaging the shoulders and psych you up yeah I know. [LAUGHTER]
[Robert:] Say yeah you can make you know the big bright lights and things like that. Which again if you accept
[Rod:] What sort what sort of commissions can you get on double glazing?
[Robert:] You can make a lot of money. A lot of money.
[Rod:] It it must be on er ante social hours though is it?
[Robert:] Oh yeah.
[Rod:] A lot of it done during the evenings and weekends?
[Robert:] It's all evening weekends you know.
[Rod:] This is the only nine to five sales job I've ever been able to offer anybody.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Because you have to get out of the premises of the people when they lock up.
[Robert:] Well that's right yeah.
[Rod:] And that in fact is one of the one of the areas or one of the elements that attracts people to this particular job.
[Robert:] You're back to home life.
[Rod:] Oh yeah.
[Robert:] My wife used to say, Can you not get a proper job.
[Rod:] That's right.
[Robert:] To me it was a proper job because that was
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Robert:] You know I'd been
[Rod:] See money's all right they probably love the money you can bring in but if they don't see you to spend it or to [LAUGHTER] to share it [].
[Robert:] But again there was some weeks when you know they'd say, Oh how did you work? Aargh the areas were more targeting
[Rod:] Getting saturated.
[Robert:] you know er you'd be out
[Rod:] Competition?
[Robert:] priced.
[Rod:] Where was your main competition from, price?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] What the Everest of this world or Alpine or whatever?
[Robert:] No the other end. Your budgets and [LAUGHTER].
[Rod:] [LAUGHTER] Oh that's right. [] How where did where did N H I er N E H I come in to that? The sort of middle road or
[Robert:] Er we always tried to put it over at er Everest product prices. [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] I can imagine I can imagine. I can just imagine that.
[Robert:] Er oh you've got you know every company's the same.
[Rod:] Sure.
[Robert:] Er I was toying with the idea of getting out altogether out of the, I'll be honest with double glazing.
[Rod:] Yeah sure.
[Robert:] The cake's the same size
[Rod:] Yes.
[Robert:] But the slices are getting smaller and smaller
[Rod:] Yeah yeah
[Robert:] you know.
[Rod:] There seem to be an awful lot of local companies shove
[Robert:] There's too many given you see they advertise falsely right? Should not get away with six windows and then the small word from two hundred
[Rod:] Oh yes from two hundred yeah.
[Robert:] Right. So people oh I can get six windows for two hundred pound. So you go in a tell them that six windows are gonna cost them four and a half thousand and they go
[Rod:] Well it it also allows me to once again break in here because er one of the things that you can't do in home improvement areas is talk to people about the final price on the phone. You have to go and measure up.
[Robert:] You would never get across the door for a start.
[Rod:] You wouldn't get across the door.
[Robert:] No.
[Rod:] Erm here we do. Once again it brings me in to the point where er double glazers have to go and measure up then do their, I know they've got lovely lap tops I've seen them now with their lap top comp their little samples there special catches here. I've bought double glazing you see. I haven't had to in my this current house because they're sealed units and I I bought the house new so. Sealed units must have destroyed at lot of the or taken a chunk out of the market.
[Robert:] Well they're easy to destroy as well but we won't [LAUGHTER] we won't go into that [].
[Rod:] We won't go into that because I've got it and I make a joke [LAUGHTER].
[Robert:] That's right you see I will not I will not tell you you're daft for buying them.
[Rod:] No well in fact there are one or two hiccups we've had with them. Especially with the condensation a little nail I found a nail had been hammered through and spoilt the seal.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Okay so once again over four years erm you unfortunately the company went into liquidation.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Did they set up again under a different name?
[Robert:] No.
[Rod:] Oh just okay. Now the next part intrigues me. Who is E E C?
[Robert:] Oh
[Rod:] What product is that?
[Robert:] Er well network marketing have you heard
[Rod:] I network market I've got no problem with network marketing. It's going to be the future marketing
[Robert:] It will be if
[Rod:] It will be.
[Robert:] you get the product right okay. Well there's a lot there's a lot of companies out there
[Rod:] Toyota you can only buy a car in Toyota through network marketing
[Robert:] That's correct yep. But I mean the Japanese I think have got like sixty five seventy percent of their national growth.
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Robert:] Isn't it? Well America's forty odd.
[Rod:] As long as we as long as we can persuade people to forget the pyramid er years.
[Robert:] Well that's the first thing I used get. Oh it's pyramid selling no I don't want to know. It's a meagre earn, no no it's not that it's a very good way to make money.
[Rod:] Well everybody can make their money that's the important. In pyramid there was only one guy gonna make the money.
[Robert:] That's right yeah.
[Rod:] Whoever started it off.
[Robert:] E E C it's European Enviro European Environmental Controls. Lovely name for getting into the Common Market. E E C you know I I've work the E E C you know. Er
[Rod:] What what what was this product meant to do?
[Robert:] It was water and air filtration systems.
[Rod:] I thought N S well N S A.
[Robert:] N S A right okay.
[Rod:] N S A are the big boys in that aren't they?
[Robert:] Yeah. They're the market leaders if you like and all your chaps at the top there will always be the top but anybody getting into N S A now
[Rod:] Well they've got the electrical products now er sorry the security products is is their life saver I guess.
[Robert:] Well we the E E C started off with the water filtrations and air products and then they got tied up with an American outfit doing fuel savers, magnets for your car. By the way I've got them on my car the work. Right okay.
[Rod:] Yeah okay. I I must admit I hadn't heard that one.
[Robert:] Er great things. Er and then they went on to them for your central heating
[Rod:] Mhm.
[Robert:] gas L P G oil central heating er and we were going fine. Er and all of a sudden they brought out the catalogue right? With the jewellery and the cleaner products you know and
[Rod:] So it's combining all the other network marketing companies in one catalogue were they?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Oh what under their own banner?
[Robert:] Yeah. Er they just totally deviated from what we were doing.
[Rod:] Right okay.
[Robert:] Er and we were getting the impression then we were only, not wanting to decry them Bettaware salesmen or Bettaware people, you had to go round now and stick catalogues through people's doors and go back and
[Rod:] Oh really.
[Robert:] collect collect orders.
[Rod:] That's that's away from network marketing that.
[Robert:] And the network just went and it just collapsed.
[Rod:] And I guess you must have lost erm some of those people would've gone to N S A especially with their new security product.
[Robert:] Er I don't know where they went.
[Rod:] You don't know okay.
[Robert:] You know erm if
[Rod:] You didn't keep in touch with them.
[Robert:] No well I'm if people pull out they've got their own reasons. Per personal business whatever
[Rod:] Oh sure.
[Robert:] and next you know it's it's in the past.
[Rod:] Yes yeah.
[Robert:] You dwell in the past and you'll never go forward.
[Rod:] No no.
[Robert:] Er
[Rod:] Oh no never in marketing as er I mean even the Institute of Directors and the Institute of er the C B I recognize now, in fact they put out papers on it, to say that network marketing is the way of the future.
[Robert:] It will be.
[Rod:] Erm providing you get the right products at the right price down and it's and it's er it's been it's done ethically.
[Robert:] Yeah. See with the likes of the other company we mentioned right, they were been in the beginning er for order values stock they just wanted to sell you stock all right. I'll sell you fifteen hundred the first stock right. Probably turn round say they had a five hundred million pound turnover last year right. I would say
[Rod:] Probably about forty million last year.
[Robert:] Er sorry yeah
[Rod:] In the U K in the U K
[Robert:] Yeah. Point I was going to say was about five million pounds of that probably hit the the public the rest is lying in garages and
[Rod:] Oh in the house
[Robert:] spare rooms and things like that.
[Rod:] Yeah I think yes yeah yeah.
[Robert:] And to me that was the wrong way to go. I'd rather sell you one for yourself and one to sell.
[Rod:] Yes.
[Robert:] And if you sold it come back for another one.
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Robert:] Er all the small people that's how you build your network. You don't go in and say
[Rod:] But that that would not
[Robert:] give me
[Rod:] be of course the people further up the line.
[Robert:] That's right. Give me five thousand pound I'll fill your garage full of whatever.
[Rod:] Yeah. Although they do they do I mean I've been I've been to the presentations
[Robert:] Oh yeah.
[Rod:] they they they do give you an option just to start off very low. In fact they've dropped their minimum now.
[Robert:] Yes it's down to er six hundred or something isn't it? Or you're not allowed
[Rod:] Below below that cos of the of the security the security See the security systems the alarm erm is nineteen pound. Well they've never had a product that cheap before. I think you know to the retail
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] not to the public.
[Robert:] There was a company come out with something similar like using er an E S P thing.
[Rod:] Yeah but they've tak they've taken they've taken it a stage further and er prettied it up and given it another facility. Right okay so that's er that was the demise of E E C.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Erm now
[Robert:] Now here we go.
[Rod:] Now here we go.
[Robert:] Right okay. My wife's a company secretary for the company in question all right?
[Rod:] Right okay.
[Robert:] And I've known well in between but in between times like Christmas time and
[Rod:] Yes.
[Robert:] the direct sales times it sort of died. Which it did do. I used to go in and help them out at Christmas because they would be three may be four or five thousand turkeys right. When I left school at first I was er in meat wholesale in Glasgow right. So I knew what I was doing. I could cut and different things like that and be it fate or not his er suddenly lost his driving licence.
[Rod:] Okay.
[Robert:] Okay. So he asked me if I'd go in for a couple of weeks until he got something sorted out you know. I said yeah fine I'll go in. Er and it turned out a year till he [LAUGHTER] licence back [].
[Rod:] Okay so you.
[Robert:] Well it was steady income I was in the house every night my wife was happy.
[Rod:] Robert I've got no problem with that erm I've put down here you wouldn't go on the dole and you got this through your, I think it would be fair enough and er I I I admire that.
[Robert:] Well it was money on the table.
[Rod:] And it was money on the table.
[Robert:] Okay my life's still
[Rod:] Is that coming to a finish now.
[Robert:] Oh it's fini finished at December there. He's his licence back in October
[Rod:] Aha.
[Robert:] but he kept me on to get me through Christmas you know things like that.
[Rod:] All right fine okay.
[Robert:] Let's say I've known the guy for
[Rod:] I mean he hasn't kept you on now though?
[Robert:] fifteen years or something like that. Oh no no no.
[Rod:] Right well this is a big step a giant step for mankind, particularly if you're Robert to go self-employed. Oh you've been self- employed yes
[Robert:] Oh I've always been self-employed apart from that one. Well
[Rod:] Oh really? So you were except for roofing foreman
[Robert:] well the the roofing er we did go into the seven one four forms you know
[Rod:] Okay fine.
[Robert:] in the early stages.
[Rod:] Yes. They used to called it the hump didn't they?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] [LAUGHTER] Is it still called that is it? [] Although they tight they tightened it up still goes on our bills.
[Robert:] Oh yes of course it does. But that was the good old days. You could walk on to your site and say is that the job how much? What? How much? No. And you could walk fifty yards down the road and there'd be somebody else building and you could walk on a say is that the job how much? Long gone.
[Rod:] Yeah okay that's the job long gone. Yeah everything's written quotes and goodness knows what.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] I've got no I I've got no problem with that Robert because there's enough there to say you know that you've got erm cut your teeth already on sales. Okay well that's interesting to get your background. Robert this is a different type of sale. Er it it is I can remove it from the rest of the the sales that er even from the direct sales that you've been
[Robert:] Yeah pitch.
[Rod:] er and only because of what I different pitch it is on the phone. A lot of people can't get used to that. A lot of people who come to us I have to say. I started out that way and not listening to the people you've been doing it for years and say this is the way you do it. And after a week of not earning I said, There something wrong here. It's you know and my pride was getting a little bit dented that I'd been selling market for years suddenly I wasn't doing this. And they said, Well okay I can tell you right now you've, how many appointments have you told me this week, this is the guy back at camp. Erm I said well yeah he said every day you been saying er I've been asking you what appointments have you got and I said I've got two this afternoon and two tomorrow morning. And each time I've ask you what have you got today, right. Now remember they're not they can't be counted as your boss
[Robert:] Your boss no.
[Rod:] they're just the person there
[Robert:] That's right yeah.
[Rod:] who they just need to know on a daily basis what deals you've got. So that they can see how you're progressing. And it's not big brother certainly not a big brother attitude it's just they're there to help you. And er he said, Well you haven't listened to me have you. He said you're making appointment still to go and talk about advertising. He said what reasons have they told you that they're bowing out? Well erm they didn't want to do banker's order, so why did you go around? You're wasting your time and your petrol because it's my petrol
[Robert:] That's right.
[Rod:] and my car. The second week was entirely different. I I did it their way
[Robert:] Mm.
[Rod:] and I'll show you one of the commission sheets. It started to pour in and it was compared with previous. You know it does pour in if you have nought the week before anything you get is pouring in. But it was a very good week after that. That's why I always persuade people they must listen. If they listen they'll love you if you listen I'll tell you because you'll do it.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] And all of your performance all the performance of the sales consultants determines what other people are earning themselves. So it's to their interest to beef you up. Having got the fact that I believe you can slot into this job Robert. Because we do give a training course we don't send you know, are you happy to consider that that that there's a two-way opportunity?
[Robert:] Oh there's gotta be yeah.
[Rod:] Okay. That helps to actually get that out of the way.
[Robert:] The referees you were looking for you
[Rod:] Well I I yeah the only point is there that we do require four referees. Now if you're you're you're obviously that will not tell us very much about your selling.
[Robert:] No
[Rod:] The other people all have not aye?
[Robert:] They're all not there now.
[Rod:] They're not oh that sometimes presents a problem but quite honestly er if you've if you've still got some contacts in sales we're you know. Nobody puts references down here if they've got any sense that are gonna give bad references.
[Robert:] Yeah well I mean
[Rod:] As as a personnel manager once said to me, Reference are only worth the amount of work
[Robert:] You know I
[Rod:] you've done on them.
[Robert:] I can put down a school teacher does that help?
[Rod:] Yeah fine yeah put it under that.
[Robert:] Yeah. It's my next door neighbour.
[Rod:] School teacher yeah anybody?
[Robert:] Next door neighbour.
[Rod:] The references I've given, well I haven't had to give many over the years. But it's been two next door neighbours, one a bank manager and one a chief executive of a company.
[Robert:] Mhm. This is fir this is the first
[Rod:] My accountant no problem.
[Robert:] The first, well my wife done all my books you see. In the company you know I've never dealt with any
[Rod:] All I can say is I'm going to put down here, to be advised. Because we're very the reason
[Robert:] Right okay.
[Rod:] All right. But please advise because we we will write to you. The reason for that is that we're putting tot total strangers on to our clients premises for three weeks.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] And we've already discovered in the last six months by discreet calls because of something we've seen a bit funny in er er in er references that have come back or people have been down right honest and said, Sorry er this guy was last time I spoke with him. He put a solicitor down, and last time I spoke with him I was defending him on a for fraud.
[Robert:] [LAUGHTER].
[Rod:] We had he's already started an assignment. We had to pull him off. We couldn't afford to have that guy in.
[Robert:] Yeah you know I I yeah I can see.
[Rod:] See that?
[Robert:] Yeah. Because they'd want your office where you phone I I'm going with it.
[Rod:] So so please please take take it seriously on that.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Please please help me out on that one.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] All right. Robert that's one hurdle out of the way. I believe you could do this job. You cos you I think you you you've got pride and you've got determination and you've got some pzazz. If I'm if I I am in luxurious position of saying that I can fit you in to some of these companies. I've got six companies there. If you were to choose an environment that you think you might be happy to work within, cos remember you're selling ads whichever one,
[Robert:] Mm.
[Rod:] where do you think you'd put yourself? You've got schools golf clubs uni erm schools universities colleges er estate agents two products and medical areas two products.
[Robert:] Well it would have to be I wou looking at it it would be between two wouldn't it really?... Estate agents cos they're all over the country.
[Rod:] Aha.
[Robert:] And golf clubs cos I play golf and they're all [LAUGHTER] over the country [].
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Robert:] Now they're
[Rod:] I I
[Robert:] personal and er
[Rod:] I'm going to tell that with your
[Robert:] I don't know any
[Rod:] with your background in sales and in what you've done er with your hands as well, I would put you in estate agents.
[Robert:] Mm.
[Rod:] I I think you'd be er you'd succeed a lot more in that. I know you play golf it might be a danger putting you on the golf courses. [LAUGHTER] You'd want to play the damn thing all the time.
[Robert:] with me. [LAUGHTER] I'm just turned forty and I.
[Rod:] Okay?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] I but we've got two products there. We've got two products there postal wallets and folders. Quite honestly I have no particular erm preference there for you except let's have a look at the two products shall we?
[Robert:] Yep. This is what it's all about products.
[Rod:] And they each do for the home buyer and the estate agent the same sort of thing. It presents there the home buyer with a list of businesses that er er that's er an estate agents newspaper that we print er publish every, er it is over here, every month. So we have two products, let me show you these. Okay. These are given away to house buyers when they or prospective house buyers when they walk through the door.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] All right? Er difference er is obvious. These are much more erm you know retend er retention. There's all the information. Doesn't matter what estate agent you may be going into you will keep the information in this if the other esta other estate agent hasn't got it.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] So you're more, first of all the estate agent's name will be in front of you more than the others, and also the advertisers will be.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] So an estate agent who hasn't got one of these when you go into this one erm you're likely to retain this. It also has we have the largest independent producers of street maps in the country. And I believe them to be the some of the nicest maps I've ever seen. But we don't sell them.
[Robert:] No they're
[Rod:] Given away.
[Robert:] Given away.
[Rod:] That's why er people who come to our company and then after a year or so think they can go away and do this on their own, can't do it. They try they fail they're they're
[Robert:] Mhm.
[Rod:] another twenty years it's littered with people who've failed in this.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] And that's because of the map. A lot to do with the map. So there's that product and the earning potentials are the same on on both of these products. And then there is what what is a what is a spin-off from the other is a postal wallet. The the estate agents were finding that they were using these up very quickly by sending them away, also they were rather expensive to send away in the post and we were not prepared to put, er we weren't getting the income to survive on that. So we said what can we produce that they can send through the post. And we produced this. Four er six years ago I think it was. The difference the difference the obvious difference perceptively between that and that is er the size but also the number we will print. We will print three thousand of these may be per year
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] We'll print thirty five thousand of these. The difference the benefit to this er the advertising here is that it's going to be repeat. If you're on the mailing list you're gonna get a lot of these.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] If you walk through the door you're gonna get one of those. But the benefit of that is it's retained. The benefit of this is repeat.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] And then of course they'll always retain the one that appeals. I'll keep this cos I need to keep that guy's.
[Robert:] Yeah. So the the crux of the job is right if I've picked all right.
[Rod:] Yeah okay.
[Robert:] You go to an estate agents
[Rod:] Remember you don't have
[Robert:] This is this is
[Rod:] You're selling this not this.
[Robert:] You're selling this. That that's that's what I was gonna get at.
[Rod:] That's.
[Robert:] Yeah. Right.
[Rod:] We've taken we've taken er some of the workload off.
[Robert:] Yep. And you phone round local builders local whatever
[Rod:] Right.
[Robert:] er and ask if they'd like to advertise.
[Rod:] Well I'll give you an idea.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] That list when marketing group go round to sign up the estate agent for one or the other or both.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Obviously they're not sold together. This might be sold another six or seven months after that
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] or vice versa.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] They can have both but not together. Erm they are left er a list of er a blank like this and say right you contracted to take the products now we want from, it'll be this one say, now we want a list of advertisers who or prospec prospect businesses who you think you're happy for us to approach for a start. In other words you don't mind your name his name associated with you.
[Robert:] Yeah that's right credibility
[Rod:] Secondly. Credibility.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Erm and it'll also help us to get the the out of your way, we'll get out of your hair within five or six days if you give us all the businesses.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Now these represent, and this list is sent back to us and retained on the with the contract and all the details of this assignment for when it comes to the top of the pile as it were.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] When it comes to the top of the pile whoever is the most geographically suitable and available, the consultant is told there's there's your new assignment. Just coming up to finishing this one here here's your new one. That list is sent in the er assignment pack to the estate agent to wait for your arrival.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] I think I told you this by the way, this I want to describe to you now is the same for all of them.
[Robert:] All of them yep.
[Rod:] And in fact we even er I'm not sure whether this is still in operation, but we even give them an idea of the categories. Now I can
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] I can say to you right now with confidence that if I'd asked you to start writing er a list of the categories that people er that you think might advertise in these you'd probably get about twenty five.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] We've got about a hundred and fifty.
[Robert:] Fifty.
[Rod:] That's just a
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] that's just a slip. Because one of the worse things you can do in this and it's a it's a it's something everybody does I think, I understand anyway, is to prejudge who will or who will not advertise in
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] As far as I'm concerned anybody who wants to sign a contract with me gives me copy and a cheque is a legitimate.
[Robert:] Mhm.
[Rod:] And yet I've been as guilty as anybody else in saying, Oh they won't wanna come in this medical practice booklet what will they gain from it? Let them decide.
[Robert:] That's right.
[Rod:] We know what they will from advertising their business. That's waiting for you when the assignment comes up. The important thing about that Bob is not to accept it just at face value. Is to sit down with the estate agent and say, Right why have you got these business on. Tell me a little bit about each one of them. And then they say, Well the guy he's next door I don't know him but I just thought I'd put him on. That's not enough for you to pitch on.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] You say well look I'm gonna approach this guy what sort of business are you gonna put his way or can you put his way.
[Robert:] Mhm.
[Rod:] Is it in your power to put a newsagent er any business. He'll say, Well I can make sure all the newspapers all the erm come in here. And I'll say fine. I've gotta be able to tell him that.
[Robert:] Yeah. And you'll have to know your local reputation as well.
[Rod:] Absolutely.
[Robert:] Well they would know that.
[Rod:] But you would only approach that business on the basis that well the estate agent has asked me to give you er you know he he feels that you would benefit and erm from this exposure and er has asked me to approach you first. May be the third one you've approached that day. But they will tell you on the phone.
[Robert:] It's
[Rod:] Okay? It's that sort of pitch.
[Robert:] Okay.
[Rod:] Okay? Now
[Robert:] So there's not really cold call well it's cold
[Rod:] Oh
[Robert:] calling in a way but you've got
[Rod:] It's not as you want
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Rob er Robert but but we really have warmed it up as much as we can. The the lists that we get range from mediocre to pretty good to excellent.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] But even the mediocre ones you know you have to say, Come on chaps there must be more businesses in this. And of course we've been doing these for twenty years, folders. We've been doing these for about six. The majority of our assignment I would think now are getting to the resale position. In other words we're going back after three or four years. So we'll have repeats. So when you go in and say I'm coming to resell er tell me first of all here's the old here's the current erm folder or postal wallet, who are these people are they still in existence. What sort of business have you, before I approach them, have they do you think they've gained anything from you. What relationship have you got with these. Because if you phone these guys up and say, What a waste of time. Not get anything from them. You may have to say, Well I've just been talking to the estate agent about this and er you know on a number occasions he's sent people along to you er may be you didn't realize that was happening.
[Robert:] Mm.
[Rod:] Because they don't ask everybody who comes through. Oh when did you hear about this?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] All they want is
[Robert:] Small businesses now [LAUGHTER] don't anyway do they []?
[Rod:] So we emphasize that when we're signing them up make sure you ask when these people come through where they have seen or where how did they find out about us. I'd be interested I would.
[Robert:] Mhm. Yeah.
[Rod:] So there's all that on the table. So that's that product. I won't go into the er the earnings yet because they're exactly the same as this.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] That's a fol you can take that away that explains er what what and this is the this is the folder all right? Now you'll see that there are almost the same number of slots in in each. Okay now we've had this for twenty years so a lot of these have been resold of course. But we've got a lot of new ones. Asda for instance if you know the supermarket chain er now have er property services on their prem premises. We've just got the contract to do them.
[Robert:] Yeah?
[Rod:] So how do you feel about these? Same pitch slightly different pitch of course er sorry slight difference is that you're saying that these of course will be handed out to a targeted
[Robert:] Out to
[Rod:] audience. These of course are repetitive.
[Robert:] Yeah. Are these like erm mail shotted through somebody whose registered with the estate agent?
[Rod:] Yes for instance if I
[Robert:] Or is it only to buyers?
[Rod:] No. If if if if you were wanting to buy erm buy a house if you were moving house, and I didn't realize until the other day that ninety percent of people who buy and sell houses are moving within their own area.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] [LAUGHTER] That's surprised me. [] Erm er you know if fact they could be just moving two streets away or five miles away but all within the same town. Erm those are the people that are unlikely to get these. Because they
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] But I received my first [LAUGHTER] one of these from [] er from Lloyds er Black Knights er services because I was in I was about fifteen miles away. I could still have easily called in if I'd wanted to but I saw something advertised in a village saw the board took the number down and phoned them up. So they sent me it. Erm because I didn't find it convenient to go and call. That's the sort of so. But you could be three or four hundred miles away moving from Penzance to Aberdeen. That's when you're likely to get that. You'll still visit the area and get one of those. But in the first instance you'll get these. Because that's the quickest way they can get stuff to you.
[Robert:] Yeah. And I suppose may be it's may be if somebody got that, that's why I say if you have to buy the property first. But if you got it you might find it would be cheaper to do your house up using these clients rather than sell.
[Rod:] You never know do you. So there there's the two products. Now what do you think? What do you, no difference. Same same training course in effect. Different weeks I mean we concentrate on wallets because of the pitch. Any preference.
[Robert:] Looks more professional right?
[Rod:] Mhm.
[Robert:] From a a layman's point of view. But I think you'd get more business out of the smaller one.
[Rod:] So which is the easier pitch? Remember you're going into this for the first time. That one?
[Robert:] I I would say so.
[Rod:] Shall we talk about these?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Okay. Different companies you see
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] in the same division. I'll let you take I'll you take this as well all right? So that you can. But what we're talking about now is that we've made up our mind A that you er I believe and you believe you can do this job.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] So we've got belief in each other. Erm B we have now decided the company and because you've decided this company will also determine how soon you can start. Because this course is every two weeks that one's every week. Right?
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] I'll take that out of your way. You get to take these products away. Let me open up that one. See the difference designs.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] That's actually the the front.
[Robert:] Who designs the
[Rod:] Right.
[Robert:] the adverts.
[Rod:] You've asked the question. It just preempts something I tell tell people anyway. But let's have a look at all the all of the design. If it doesn't exist already [knocking]
[Robert:] Sorry.
[Rod:] If it doesn't exist already
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] You're not going to get away with that. [LAUGHTER]
[Robert:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Erm
[Robert:] Forgot it was there actually.
[Rod:] we we take what er they they want. If if erm a lot of these will probably be lifted from Yellow Pages.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] They'll be lifted from local papers. Ninety nine percent of the time they've got copy that exists. We will change anything they want. We will add anything they want. We will design the full ad for them if they want at no extra cost.
[Robert:] Yeah yeah.
[Rod:] When they come on and say, Yeah no I haven't advertised before that will cost me extra money. You say, No it won't. All I need for you to tell me right now is you're going to commit yourself to this product and I will come round and we'll sign the contract, all the stuff you told him, then we'll talk about copy and it doesn't cost you anything. We'll do it for you. You get a chance to see the proof and and er erm approve it. Okay?
[Robert:] Right okay.
[Rod:] But you will find particularly this size of ad, although it doesn't matter what size the copy is
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] we'll reduce it erm and we'll probably retype it. And we'll juggle it around and give them you know er one or two options.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Let's have a look first all er just step back slightly to the time when the sales exec goes round to sign up the estate agent. He will he will establish from certain facts how many they they think they'll need for us to print. Okay there's a small estate agent will print ten thousand. Now these are guaranteed we guarantee to print these. They can have as many as they want really.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Cos all once it's all set up we can just reprint. But that that will be determined by the sales exec when they go round to sign the contract. Not not by you but by the contact. Okay? And if we're gonna print that number, say thirty five, it automatically internally it will generate that target. And that's the sort of target we're going to look for from that assignment. But there is a cutoff point which we know internally, you won't get to know, where we know we've got enough money to cover all of our costs in that first year. We don't want any costs to come out of the second year cos that's where we make our profit.
[Robert:] Profit. Yeah.
[Rod:] All the commissions, and you only get paid I say only you get paid commission on the first year. Second year you're on another assignment anyway so it doesn't make no repeat. There's no point in having
[Robert:] So there's no repeat business?
[Rod:] No. Erm so that's a figure if you like you have have up here in your noodle and say I need to go for that anyway. But you always have this figure certainly slapped in your mind. At four and a half thousand pound of sales we start to pay extra fift in fact at four thousand pound we start but it's only a small bonus so I home in on the bigger one. We pay fifteen percent extra on to all all the business you bring in above that figure. Okay? So you need to have that figure in your mind not necessarily that one.
[Robert:] Yeah. Your money making figure.
[Rod:] Aha. Now that's just a notional one for us to to target internally make sure all our costs come within a certain [phone rings] Excuse me. Hello. Yes could you invite her to have a cup of tea and I'll be er ten minutes or so. Thank you very much. Bye. Erm okay so where are we up to. Erm yes there's the there's the the er bonus er element. We pay the bonuses at proof stage and I'll explain why in a minute okay. All your other commissions thirty percent on all your sales are paid the following week. So there's no waiting around. Do the
[Robert:] of it there's plenty in there.
[Rod:] you get paid next week.
[Robert:] Right okay.
[Rod:] Just to give you an idea of the prices. If you compare the the positions one oh beg your pardon you'll need that out.
[Robert:] I'll need that one.
[Rod:] When you start the assignment er every assignment you get one of these all right?
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] And you use this to mark off of course
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] where you have erm the ones you've sold. So now you can relate [LAUGHTER] positions one to three [] to how much they cost and so on on the way down. The flap is sold. Even though it looks at first it's a ridiculous thing to do.
[Robert:] Oh right.
[Rod:] Right. When when when people receive that they tear that off and the flap drops down. And er that [tape change] You study that but that's your work horse. You get a brand new one of these every time. You can have ten percent discount immediately if you need it. But if if we find anybody's a persistent discounter they're causing trouble for the person who comes to resell.
[Robert:] That's right.
[Rod:] Although it's two years later they've got to resell at the price that er it's been discounted more or less. Unless we can persuade them in two years costs have gone up and of course we will. Typical example. If you homed in on erm one to eight on the flap that would er create the average revenue which is the average across all of our products of six thousand pound. That's what we we find is the average sale. And that's your earning in two to three weeks. Two weeks we hope. Where it's made up of thirty percent commission and the bonuses. Now that's good money in anybody's er
[Robert:] Thousand pound a week yeah.
[Rod:] If you sold the whole you know it's possible to sell you know it's it's done. In fact I'm not far off there in fact. This is one of ours. I'll explain that one in a minute. If you sold the whole of this that's the earning and you've got to do this [hiccup] excuse me, in three weeks. That's nearly a thousand pound a week. And that's I think what everybody should be trying to aim for. It's there it's available. That's the only freebie there in this particular product. Every time there's a special, it doesn't cost them anything, but anytime they put that in it means they can take this product this this in to that company and get some extra deal.
[Robert:] Mm get a discount.
[Rod:] Now as soon as anybody puts that in as you'll notice they've nearly all got them in, that's another advantage of course that they will retain this. If they know they can get special deals. So every one of these has got that symbol. As soon as one just one company decides to take that seal we've got to put that ad in somewhere. Now if we sold the whole lot we're gonna [LAUGHTER] struggle a bit.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] But it will be there somewhere okay? Even if it's er
[Robert:] But it wouldn't be from nine to twelve?
[Rod:] Mm?
[Robert:] It wouldn't be from nine to twelve. [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] It'll be one of those two. Okay right.
[Robert:] Okay.
[Rod:] I mean it it'll go in certain into that's a selling pitch too. Because that means that the people have got to take this in. Which means it's it's like a big business card.
[Robert:] When you go to er prospective clients. Okay you've talked to them the phone right and you're gonna go and sign them up.
[Rod:] Mhm yeah.
[Robert:] Right? Do you write in Joe Bloggs
[Rod:] Er no.
[Robert:] this.
[Rod:] I would suggest you didn't. You just say sold and may be have your own code.
[Robert:] Right yeah okay. Just in case there was a Jonesy you know. Whether that would work or not.
[Rod:] Yeah. If you put if you put Jones the builder there and and er Wilson the builder
[Robert:] And you're gonna see another builder.
[Rod:] and you're gonna take another builder er they will tell you exactly how to approach that. We do have a statement in our contract that they sign to acknowledge that they are not er don't have a dem right to sole
[Robert:] They're they're not exclusive. Yeah. They're not exclusive to advertise in this
[Rod:] If it's your last slot and you haven't got another builder you say, Absolutely guarantee there's not gonna be another builder in. I'll give you that guarantee myself the company don't like me doing this but I will guarantee. Because you know there's no other builder if that's your last one.
[Robert:] Oh yeah. [LAUGHTER] I thought you meant if there was a builder here and that was the last one you sell you. Tell them lies. []
[Rod:] No no.
[Robert:] Evil class admissible today even a lot better than them. Yeah. Right okay.
[Rod:] And if a builder gonna go down there you say, Well look I've got one down here but I've got a prime slot
[Robert:] Yeah they're all prime slots.
[Rod:] they're all prime slots but this one you know you gonna no you're gonna pay a bit more you see. That's the point. This guy's taken this one down here. Well I'll tell you right now I have got another builder on but he's taken one of the er the slots further down but I've got one I've got a prime er the the estate agent asked me to contact you because there is a prime slot left. But I'm you know that that could go this afternoon when I go to a couple of other appointments.
[Robert:] And that's basically that charges is it for
[Rod:] Yeah. Six fifty for the top three then then down the scale to nine to twelve is four hundred and fifty. On er er the flap in its entirety is twelve hundred pounds.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] If if they take both sides.
[Robert:] Yeah which is which is this.
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Robert:] And and all of that
[Rod:] If you do if you do that's six hundred pound all right? And so is that six hundred pound if they want to buy both sides.
[Robert:] And that sticky comes off and so they open it yeah and that's
[Rod:] You notice they will also sell it as individuals.
[Robert:] In in the inside so nothing goes on that. Right okay.
[Rod:] Yeah yeah. They'll tell you all about that on the course.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] Okay?
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Right. The outside is the estate agents and I've never known anybody give that up.
[Robert:] No. [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Cost cost the earth. Okay that's for you to take away. As all this is.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] So if I get that out the way I'm going to go through very quickly the administration that we look for. And the reason why we make sure that when we go to see a prospective advertiser they'll know all these sorts of details. This contract is applicable across, no that's that no that's the one that's the one that we use on. So that you know see that they're all different colours.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Six six contracts all the same print so that if ever we shifted you or wanted you wanted to shift you from estate into to golf or to schools we don't have to retrain you at all. Except may be in the pitch.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] But these are the sorts of things and I'm not going to great detail because the training course does that, these are the things that they will blow you out on. If you don't tell them that you're going to pick up a thirty five percent deposit cheque.
[Robert:] Yeah yeah that's
[Rod:] They don't know that cos that's your commission cheque. That covers you for us paying you in the next week.
[Robert:] That's right yeah.
[Rod:] If you don't tell them that we want a banker's order to take out the er annual payments. Right these are the sorts of things if you spring those on them. If you, ah now can I ask you to sign that and then the banker's order
[Robert:] And by the way yeah.
[Rod:] there's the banker, What's with this banker's order I don't deal with a banker's order.
[Robert:] That's right.
[Rod:] You didn't tell me anything about the cheque.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] You didn't tell me that there may be two signatories on the cheque. You've got to establish that before you go round. Is it just you who signs the cheque?
[Robert:] Yeah okay yeah.
[Rod:] And the banker's order. They'll say, Well no the financial director will need it. I'll say, Well we need the financial director there as well. When I come round I need them both there. If you left this anywhere you'd never see it again.
[Robert:] No.
[Rod:] It's another reason they'll blow you out.
[Robert:] You just leave I'll saying, put it in the post for you.
[Rod:] Forget it.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] So that's generated two of the bits of information we want the other
[Robert:] Is it an annual charge or is it a twelve month payment thing on it, or just an annual charge?
[Rod:] Yeah it it's er when you quote a price it's per year for two years minimum all right?
[Robert:] Yeah. But is there a facility for a twelve months payment order or
[Rod:] No. You mean monthly over twelve months?
[Robert:] Yeah. No. So it's just
[Rod:] Really don't mess around with that.
[Robert:] Right okay. Yeah cos you can print it and then two downs two months down the line they could pull out and you've you've
[Rod:] Oh absolutely yeah.
[Robert:] printed it for nought. Yeah.
[Rod:] I mean we get some people that pull out er cancel or go under and then we don't get the second year's payment. That's nothing to do with you. Not
[Robert:] No.
[Rod:] even the first year's payment's anything to do with you. Just that deposit cheque. You're not asked to chase any money after that.
[Robert:] Right okay.
[Rod:] The other er bits of information of course we need to know what co I've already spoken about the copy. What we will do for them.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] This is the document they use in association with the with the copy. So once we've got that the contract and the cheque, yippee we can send off our commission form at the end of the week with all the deals in the envelope. And that's what we use.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] There's one written out so it looks at least. You have your own number
[Robert:] Number.
[Rod:] the assignment has it's unique number
[Robert:] Number
[Rod:] You just list out the advertisers, we list out the type of contract it is. There are one or two exceptions on medical side that er we we call on the approved list
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Don't need cont er don't need banker's orders and they don't need cheques but we have to have an order from the company.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] attached.
[Robert:] Are these erm inclusive of VAT or is there no VAT on advertising any more?
[Rod:] Yes there is yes. Yeah there
[Robert:] So those places haven't?
[Rod:] They're exclusive of VAT. When you quote six hundred and fifty pound plus VAT.
[Robert:] Right that's okay right. But the commission's paid on net?
[Rod:] Yes. Yeah. That's that's actually
[Robert:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] That's the cost of the ad exclusive of VAT. If you are VAT registered yourself of course
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] and we hope most people would be because thirty six thousand pound, if they're all earning thirty six thousand
[Robert:] I used to well I was VAT but pulled out.
[Rod:] I still am.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Erm that's the amount of you commission and that's probably the lowest er you know the lowest that er you'd get well three hundred and fifty pounds. So you'd just be about a hundred and I think a hundred and ten is the lowest commission you get for any deal in our company.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] And the highest is somewhere around seven hundred and fifty I think for one deal. Same same contract they're signing same contract. The size of the ad is bigger.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] I mentioned earlier on that you you get paid erm bonuses at proof stage. That's where you claim. And they have to be claimed. Every two months a list of numbers of the assignments that have been proofed, that means all the ads have been done across the products and all the proofs have been sent out, we've also clai got the balance of the first year's payment. We are now prepared to pay you bonuses.
[Robert:] Right so we get paid the extra fifteen or whatever
[Rod:] If you're entitled you will know exactly you will keep a record don't worry.
[Robert:] Oh I think so yeah.
[Rod:] When er when you spot that number on the list that comes out to you you can claim. And that's where you claim. A lot of people leave it in there to accrue to pay tax or whatever. It's a good idea actually.
[Robert:] Yeah it's [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] You won't forfeit it but you still have to remember you've gotta claim for it all the time. So claimed his after two years recently and got about six thousand pound.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] New car or whatever holiday.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Okay. But you you're entitled to it so you can claim it any time you want.
[Robert:] You just keep a note of it and
[Rod:] I think this is for you Robert this this er this job not this job this opportunity.
[Robert:] Yeah yes. Different exciting intriguing.
[Rod:] Super.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Right now I've we've got some new documentation for the wallets. Erm what I need to do now is just so I'm gonna have to cross a few things out. What I'll try and do is to remember to send you the new documentation. But for now I'll and you're happy to start with us any time yeah?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Fully expensed course. Got your own car haven't you I hope?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Good. I've got to look a one of the notes here hang on. Erm we've got one going at the moment so week commencing the seventh of February.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] All right? That's only the week after next so give you an i er a chance to
[Robert:] Week Monday. And are they at?
[Rod:] And that's at. So what we do on wallets we send we have people for three days in house all right? We give them a three day intensive in in a in fully expensed by us. We pay your travel costs there we pay your hotel bill and we then send individuals out er for two days with a top earner stroke trainer.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Now I don't know where that is it could be anywhere. But wherever possible if somebody's working in your area right now we'd send you there. If they're they're in that top echelon.
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] Otherwise we might have to
[Robert:] Is that a three day residential course?
[Rod:] Three day residential and then two days out in the field
[Robert:] Two days out in the field.
[Rod:] It could mean you staying away from home but we pay your expenses then okay?
[Robert:] Yeah that's no problem.
[Rod:] Right so first of all that's Monday. Okay. Erm and it's I I just men mentioned here the company is Publications.
[Robert:] Yeah I noticed that on the top of the
[Rod:] Yes okay I make a note that
[Robert:] contract.
[Rod:] Now on F oh sorry on Monday the seventh er oh sorry on Friday the fourth I would like you to phone into this this er phone in to head office ask for Publications.
[Robert:] Right.
[Rod:] being. Er I've got I've gotta just change these. I'm gonna put figures here.... We've got some new erm er stuff that's Monday to Wednesday right?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] So on the following Thursday and Friday, I hope you'll remember these will you. Sorry it's a bit messy.
[Robert:] The following Thursday and Friday.
[Rod:] Yeah. So on the Monday you'll be working on your own assignment. So er take out that and put Sunday. So you stay Sunday you Monday night with the Tuesday night and you don't need the Wednesday night. You do need the. You're there for three days and and Sunday night. So that's Sunday Monday
[Robert:] Yes that's what I was gonna ask you do you arrive early morning or do you move in the Sunday night.
[Rod:] Okay da de da I don't need that any more. Three days now that's you you'll know what I mean here don't you?
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Sorry about this. That is now Thursday to Friday otherwise all the stuff... that's the hotel you'll be staying at okay? Oh actually no Sunday evening and that is that's Wednesday. All right?
[Robert:] Yep.
[Rod:] If you read all this through [LAUGHTER] and be just totally confused []. What did I say the Parkwater Hotel?... Yep Parkwater which is there. It's got a swimming pool so.
[Robert:] Oh I'll pack me trunks.
[Rod:] Pack your swimmies.
[Robert:] Pack me trunks.
[Rod:] Right now what I do now can I just have there's there's a form here
[Robert:] I will get a letter of confirmation through will I?
[Rod:] Oh yeah this will all be in writing to you.
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] Okay. We will pay the travel costs to and then out on your assign er sorry out on your two days out. If you had to stay away on your two days you're out with the trainer then we will pay you thirty pound a night subsistence.
[Robert:] Right okay.
[Rod:] Okay he will know exactly where
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] He or she the trainer will know exactly where you get some good deals okay? If I can ask you to sign to say you know that.
[Robert:] [reading] Any expenses reimbursed by. [] All right.
[Rod:] But we pick up the hotel at
[Robert:] Printed signature that's
[Rod:] I know.
[Robert:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] This has all been changed I'm afraid this it's it's all in the process of being changed and then inserted into these er these are older packs I'm getting just using up.... Okay. There's a copy there for you.
[Robert:] Oh there's one for me right.
[Rod:] So you know what you've signed. There you go.
[Robert:] Right okay.
[Rod:] Super. I've got that I've got that I must make a note of this. of the seven stroke two and all I need now is your photograph.
[Robert:] Oh boy you lucky person.
[Rod:] Do you normally wear your glasses all the time?
[Robert:] Yeah all the time yeah.
[Rod:] Yeah fine.
[Robert:] They're not cosmetic. [sniff] Unfortunately.
[Rod:] Right. Now just relax and smile please.
[Robert:] Passport passport photo [noise of camera].
[Rod:] Good. Now you need to bring four passport photographs with you by the way.
[Robert:] Yeah I was going to ask that.
[Rod:] But if you read all that documentation end to end twice three times however you need
[Robert:] Yeah.
[Rod:] to absorb it all I'd be grateful.
[Robert:] Is there many from the north do you get many out of this area?
[Rod:] Er well I come up here about every two to three weeks and then then I leave it for about two months and then er you know do it that way.
[Robert:] Er cos er my son-in-law I mean I put on the form right I've got no children right.
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Robert:] I read that as the dependants.
[Rod:] Okay fine yes.
[Robert:] Right my youngest is nineteen and she's at university so
[Rod:] No problem. If you er if you're gonna recommend somebody you thinking about doing that?
[Robert:] Well I was just going to say that he's in advertising. Er
[Rod:] Oh I see okay.
[Robert:] er with the er the Evening Chronicle. Right and that's why I wanting to see whether. Cos he goes out you know and calls into businesses and things like that right. Er and I asked him if he'd heard of you and he said no. [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Well we different.
[Robert:] And I thought different type of advertising doesn't you know.
[Rod:] We will in fact be er I mean I advertise in the er I am a client of his and we will we will be looking at the same he will be a competitor of ours in some fields. But they they will have
[Robert:] Yeah your local field agent out here would only be
[Rod:] And not only that er go into the Newcastle Evening Chronicle it's dumped the next day.
[Robert:] Mm?
[Rod:] And all of our products are er retained.
[Robert:] That's right today's days is just tomorrow's fish and chips isn't it?
[Rod:] Absolutely yeah.
[Robert:] Er
[Rod:] Okay well thanks very much Robert
[Robert:] And yourself.
[Rod:] Look forward to seeing you over in head office sometime. [recording ends]