[Matt:] Yes, that's it. That's about it... And I feel very ill prepared tonight.
[Sarah:] Oh well, don't worry, leaves it to
[Matt:] Erm yes. But it's There is no doubt about it this piece of scripture is written for the believers in the church. It's got nothing to do with people outside the church. believers and how they er it's it's really to counteract the false teaching and how they should leave their lives together. So u what Everything we're reading in here is to do with believers, not not nothing to do with the people who are not of the faith.
[Janet:] Not
[Matt:] I feel quite certain about that. Pardon?
[Janet:] Switched on now?
[Matt:] Yes it's switched on So erm as I say I feel very ill prepared. Erm... let's if we've
[Jack:] Have you switched on?
[Matt:] Yes it's on, yes it's on. So Chapter verse twelve.... Well it's a but but w er the verse nine, [reading] Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the dark []. Right? [reading] Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. [] That's wonderful isn't it? If you're living in the light you won't stumble. If you're wor In other words if you're working with Christ, keep your eyes on him, you'll not go wrong.
[speaker005:] [cough] Mm.
[Matt:] But whoever hates his brother, and this is talking about another Christian, you know?
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] But whoever hates his brother, that's another fellow believer, is in darkness. Now that's a hard word isn't it? That's verse eleven.
[speaker005:] Mhm.
[Matt:] [reading] And walks around in the darkness, he does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded him. []
[Alan:] May I ask a question?
[Matt:] Yes.
[Alan:] Most of us don't hate anybody but we do dislike some.
[Matt:] Well that's just about as bad isn't it?
[Alan:] Is that the same?
[Matt:] I would have thought so.
[Janet:] Hate's a very
[Alan:] Is it?
[Janet:] strong word
[Matt:] Hate's a strong word but I think it's I think it's er not liking somebody, isn't it?
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Alan:] Did you start the reading of verse twelve?
[Matt:] No
[speaker005:] No.
[Matt:] I was just building up to it cos it's
[Alan:] Oh, and no wonder
[Janet:] That's why I'm getting in a muddle.
[Alan:] I couldn't recognize it.
[Matt:] Well you've got to build up to where you are.
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Alan:] Mm.
[Matt:] Er so we'll move on to verse twelve [whispering] [] thirteen ad fourteen. [reading] I to you dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. []
[Jack:] Who are the children?
[Matt:] The Christians.
[Jack:] Are they little boys and girls?
[Matt:] Oh Jackie. W w yeah. We'll go onto that, then [reading] I you fathers. Because you know him who is from the beginning, I to young you young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I to you dear children because you have known the father. []
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Matt:] [reading] I to you fathers, because you have known him is who is from the beginning. I to you young men because you are strong and the word of God lives in you and you have overcome the evil one. [] Now there's y You can go to town on that one.
[Alan:] Yes.
[Matt:] But I think Meir has the right er interpretation of it. alright but he goes Ooh he goes on and on and on. Erm Meir says [reading] There are graduations in Christian experience, the child, the father, the young man. The knot of the father is the glad sense of forgiveness. Of the father a deep knowledge of God. [] I I like this. [reading] And the young man, victory over the power the of evil.... But all these is growth. The child through forgiveness, also comes to know the father. The father can only go on to know God more profoundly and as the young man men become stronger, they are more aware of the indwelling spirit of power to overcome the tempter. []
[Alan:] So it's spiritually interpreted isn't it?
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Matt:] I think so.
[Rita:] Yes.
[Matt:] I think so.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] Er but I think the important thing in in verse twelve is on account of his name. the name of Jesus, isn't it?
[Rita:] For h the name sake [reading] Your sins are forgiven [].
[Matt:] That's right. His na
[Rita:] You For his name's sake.
[Matt:] Yeah. The salvation in no other name.
[Rita:] Mm.
[Matt:] And his t his policies There's only one me er mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.
[Jack:] Does it mean for his name sake, that you must confess his name?
[Matt:] Yes, I think so Jack.
[Jack:] Is that what it means?
[Matt:] I think so. I think so because if you'll not confess his name, we're not one of his are we?
[Alan:] Mm.
[Matt:] Surely, do we know if we receive him and believe in his name and he gave us the power to become Yeah. Be that as it may. It's very well glibly saying we're all children of God. Very often preachers say that. But my Bible tells me he gave me the power to receive him and to become.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Dennis:] It's a you see?
[speaker005:] Mm. Yeah.
[Matt:] But do some folk glibly say we're e every human being is a child of God.
[Dennis:] No.
[Matt:] Well
[Dennis:] got
[Matt:] Some people would say Some people would
[Dennis:] The scripture says you don't accept it.
[Matt:] That's what my Bible says anyway.
[Dennis:] Yeah.
[Alan:] This is very important that we
[Rita:] Mm.
[Alan:] should er and we do already confess the name don't we?
[Sarah:] Yeah.
[Matt:] But but I mean Well We're not Christians if we don't.
[Alan:] No but we do, we do in this room,
[Matt:] E e Yes.
[speaker005:] Yes
[Alan:] And our intention
[Matt:] Y
[Alan:] at the church is to get others to confess the name
[Matt:] That's right.
[Alan:] too. Isn't it?
[Matt:] Yes.
[Rita:] Yes.
[Sarah:] all
[Matt:] But somebody
[Sarah:] have a choice
[Matt:] Pardon?
[Sarah:] We all have the choice to be children of God.
[Matt:] We've got the we've go the choice to either to become or or not to become.
[Sarah:] Mm.
[Matt:] Ah Could you look up Acts four twelve, Sarah. I've got that down and I don't know what it says. What does Acts four twelve say,...
[Janet:] [cough]
[Sarah:] [reading] Salvation in found in no one else for is there there is no other name under heaven given to me by which we must be seen. []
[Matt:] That's right, marvellous isn't it? So there you are. So we [reading] I to your children because your sins have been giv forgiven on account of you believing upon his name []. That's really what's it's saying isn't it?
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] Now my little commentary says What? Oh Aye. [reading] I like you because by extended repetition in these verses extended repetition in these verses [] This my commentary, [reading] John assures his readers that in spite of the ra the regulatio test contained in the letter []. Tests, because it is a rigorous test, I think I think it's tremendous, don't you?
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] In the l er in the letter [reading] He is confident of the sil salvation. Dear children, fathers, young men, as elsewhere in this letter, dear children probably refers to all John's readers, including fathers and young men. The term fathers and young men may however describe two different levels of spiritual maturity. []
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] Some hold that all three terms refer to levels of spiritual maturity. [] There you are.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] Erm... Rita, what do you think?
[Rita:] [LAUGHTER] anything different from what anybody [] [cough]
[Matt:] [reading] I went to you first because you have known him who is from the beginning. [] From the beginning of what?... John one one.
[Alan:] Mm.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] Says the says the accepted Christ is the saviour, is that what it means? Verse thirteen?
[Sarah:] He seems to progress doesn't he? From children.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Sarah:] And then on to men.
[Matt:] Yeah and then on to
[Sarah:] And then on to father.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Sarah:] So
[Rita:] That's a different,
[Sarah:] Yeah that's right
[Rita:] different
[Sarah:] That's it.
[Matt:] Er
[Janet:] are strong.
[Matt:] Pardon?
[Janet:] Oh, it's alright I'm just
[John:] You've have known him from the beginning
[speaker005:] Beginning.
[John:] means from the beginning.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[John:] Namely from the beginning of the world.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Janet:] From the beginning of time
[John:] Yes.
[Sarah:] Yes.
[John:] He'd been there from the beginning, that's we know about him. We fathers.
[Janet:] Yes.
[John:] We know that he is eternal.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[John:] Not just that we found him so many years ago. Or he found us but but it is from the beginning, surely.
[Matt:] I don't know John, I don't know.
[John:] No.
[Matt:] I don't know.
[Sarah:] er John's chapter one which is about that.
[John:] Yes it is about that.
[Matt:] See one one, yeah. John one one.
[Jack:] from the beginning that's what it's all about. And this epistle is all about from the beginning the eternal.
[speaker005:] [whispering] []
[Jack:] Yeah well she'd got to
[Sarah:] She likes to sit beside
[Matt:] Would you like to move over there to the er er John and er can bring that one over here. What does one one John one one say then?
[Rita:] In the beginning beginning was a word and the word was with God and the word was God. He was with God at the
[Matt:] Aye.
[Rita:] beginning.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[John:] Yeah, it surely is yes.
[Rita:] Come in Pat.
[John:] Come on Pat.
[Matt:] Come in. Right. [beeping] Come in
[Rita:] Come in Pat.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] Come in Pat.
[Janet:] this is being recorded the
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] Ah. Eh
[speaker005:] Delete please. [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] Right. Now where are we now?
[speaker005:] Coming in. [LAUGHTER]
[Jack:] Fifteen.
[Matt:] Fifteen. [reading] Do not love the world or anything in the world, if anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him. For everything in the world, the craving of the sinful man, the rest of the eyes and the of what he does comes not from the father but from the world. The world and it's desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. []
[Rita:] I erm I I don't know how you feel about that but
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Rita:] when I read that, you know, this is perhaps a wrong s feeling of to express but yo The lord the God created the world but he's not meaning it in that respect is he? It just means that putting it first
[Janet:] The things of the world.
[Rita:] The things of the world.
[speaker005:] the material
[Janet:] Yes.
[Rita:] But God still created the world to provide the materials things.
[John:] Not talking about material things, we're talking about the sort of fall of nature,
[Rita:] I know. That's right, this is what I'm saying. So it's misleading
[Matt:] er er er Well it can be but it c er er er er er I found it very helpful when I discovered that after I was saved. This spoke to me.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Jack:] It has come to my mind that it is contrasting er spiritual
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Jack:] spiritual life
[Matt:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Rita:] From a natural
[Matt:] naturally.
[Jack:] Through through the
[Rita:] Yeah.
[Jack:] the world. The material
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Jack:] world
[Rita:] Yeah.
[Janet:] It just seems that there's
[Jack:] people
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Janet:] perhaps no another way to put it.
[Rita:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Alan:] Yes.
[Janet:] But... when you think of er It's not really referring to the beauty of the world.
[Matt:] Ooh no no it's the it's the
[Alan:] Oh no
[Janet:] exactly
[Matt:] i it's the far world it's referring to.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Jack:] It's the what?
[Matt:] [LAUGHTER] The far world not the The unspiritual world that that we can You see the pride in the eye, that with that that that that can be can be another women or it can it can be cosmetics, it can be a dress to women or it could be another man. It could be anything couldn't it? Some
[Alan:] the world ambiguous, I've always found it so anyway.
[Dennis:] Is it is it the world that's created and all the beauty of the world?
[Matt:] No no no
[Rita:] Exactly, I don't think it can incorporate that though.
[Janet:] Have you seen about the bit
[Matt:] Yeah, you read it out Sarah.
[Sarah:] My my Bible says [reading] Do not love the world or anything that belongs to the world, []
[Matt:] Yes, yes yes.
[speaker005:] then that one really.
[Pat:] [reading] Not the world of people or the created world. But the world or realm of sin which is controlled by Satan and organized against God and righteousness. []
[Janet:] Oh that's entirely
[Matt:] Right.
[Rita:] That's the answer isn't it?
[Matt:] Yes that is the answer.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Rita:] That's just the
[speaker005:] clear
[Rita:] right reading dear.
[Matt:] Well we've all loved the world, so it's g no good kidding
[Janet:] No.
[Matt:] ourselves is there?
[Rita:] No.
[Janet:] Because we love living in the world.
[Matt:] Yeah but we've all loved
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Janet:] And we love the world.
[Matt:] The so called joys and
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Alan:] M m my translation I think m makes it quite definite.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Alan:] [reading] Everything the world affords, all that panders to the appetite, or []
[Matt:] That's right.
[Alan:] [reading] entices the eyes. []
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Alan:] [reading] All the glamour of its life springs not from the father but from the Godless world. []
[Matt:] That's right.
[Rita:] Mm.
[Alan:] [reading] And that world is parting away with that he who does God's will stands forever. []
[Matt:] That's right.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] But of course
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] every everything which is not in Christ will won't it?
[Rita:] Yeah.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Janet:] I i
[Matt:] It's only only Christ is the is the only thing that's e
[Janet:] Is there any ending
[Matt:] eternal thing isn't it?
[Janet:] Eternal. Yes.
[speaker005:] Because we've all course I have layers of
[Janet:] Yes exactly.
[speaker005:] Course there's nobody who loved the world more than what I did. the sinful man? Goodness gracious me.
[Pat:] No but I think as your faith deepens and grows you're more aware of those.
[Sarah:] Yes.
[Matt:] aware of it before Sarah. Because you were yo yo yo you were walking in darkness. As I said. It's wonderful when we come in to the light.
[Sarah:] I know
[Matt:] And walk in the light.
[Sarah:] So you
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Sarah:] these things don't you?
[Matt:] Yeah. Well the You're
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] Yeah i it's it's not even a conscious not doing it. It's a it's
[Rita:] No no
[Matt:] a desire that's taken away from you. [singing] The things I used to do, I do them []
[Rita:] Well you put it in
[Matt:] [singing] no more. [] [LAUGHTER]
[Rita:] [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] Pardon?
[Janet:] If you become aware of what really matters in your
[Matt:] Yes.
[Janet:] and this is growing isn't it?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] Yeah. That's spiritual growth.
[Janet:] Is that spiritual growth?
[Matt:] Yeah. Goodness gracious me. My first love was the bagpipes.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] And I really loved them.
[Janet:] And don't you love them now?
[Matt:] And I was good Oh and I and I was a good player as well. A competition player. But I went to a pipe bag championships in Beeston and I myself completely. I says it's even ruined me for. Even I mean the Bible says, once you're in Christ you're ruined for the world. It says in somewhere in the King James' version, you're ruined for the world. And although I'm not I enjoyed the piping, I enjoyed But I was not at peace I says I says, you've even ruined me [LAUGHTER] for this [].
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] Pardon?
[Janet:] other than the bagpipes
[Sarah:] Bagpipes.
[Matt:] But I er but I said to myself, God I'm even ruined with this.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] [LAUGHTER]
[Janet:] No it's which is foremost. You put too much attention on that and not enough on
[Matt:] That was very
[Dennis:] Yes yes that's
[speaker005:] what you make an
[Matt:] Yes, it was my religion
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Matt:] at one stage.
[Rita:] Yeah. That's right.
[Dennis:] Goodness gracious me.
[Rita:] I'm sure the Lord's thrilled you play the bagpipes.
[Matt:] Th th th th that's not what I'm saying. it's written in with this
[Rita:] No I know what you're saying and I don't know why you should
[Matt:] No no no with this
[Rita:] It doesn't mean the same.
[Matt:] No.
[Janet:] before God.
[speaker005:] Yes yes.
[Matt:] God come He Christ must come first.
[Janet:] Yeah. Yes that's right.
[Jack:] N nearly all idols nearly all idols
[Janet:] Idols
[Jack:] have their value.
[Matt:] Yes.
[Jack:] But they're idols because they take the place of God.
[Matt:] That's right.
[Janet:] That's right.
[Jack:] And every every interest
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Jack:] can be can be e e e e every is interested in an idol. And we we we we and we're n not as long as it's put in the under God it's alright.
[Matt:] You see describes it as what The lack of grace, there's no grace you know in the in in in the There's a person who's effected by these. They haven't come under grace.
[Alan:] Hmm mm.
[John:] When I was converted I lost er a great deal of interest, not completely, but a great deal of interest in in in fiction.
[Matt:] In fiction?
[John:] Yeah.
[Matt:] Why? Oh yes he would. He he Yes he would and great deal
[Janet:] as well
[John:] Yeah Yeah.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] [cough]
[John:] I'm s I'm
[Janet:] It's void isn't it?
[John:] I'm sorry that I've lost it, like I think it perhaps Si has lost the pipes.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[John:] But er I I understand why, because it played too big a part in my
[Matt:] Yes.
[John:] imagination can take charge of it. That's bad. That's bad for you and it's bad
[Janet:] Yeah.
[John:] for him.
[Janet:] That's right.
[Matt:] There is a life s empty pride. here John's uses a most vivid Greek word, Allazonia You know that?
[Alan:] Yes yes.
[Matt:] Allazonia. [reading] To the ancient moralists the Allazon was the man who laid claim to possessions and to achievements which did not belong to him in order to exalt himself more. We've often met people like that who blow their trumpet er pretending they were somebody [LAUGHTER] else [] []
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] [LAUGHTER] []
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] The Allazon is the braggart. And C H Dodd calls Allazonia pretentious egoism. [LAUGHTER] [reading] The man of the world is doomed to disappointment. And the man of God is certain of everlasting Joy. [] Now you can't beat that can you?
[Janet:] No.
[Pat:] Mm.
[Matt:] You can't beat that. So have we got any more comments on these verses?
[Jack:] One of the great dangers of today I think is is adultery, and especially
[Matt:] Absol
[Jack:] now adultery of nature and of the world.
[Matt:] Yes. And of intellect Jack.
[Jack:] Eh?
[Matt:] And of intellect?
[Jack:] Well yes intellect too. But there's many I was only thinking of the the tendency to care for the world and look after it and worship
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Jack:] it, you know. Cos it's so beautiful.
[speaker005:] Yeah. mm.
[Jack:] People that carried away
[speaker005:] true
[Jack:] beauty and the world, it's wonderful. That's and it's
[Janet:] Mm.
[Jack:] I'd also after imitations have gone, and they're very good imitations sometimes.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Jack:] That's where they deceive us.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Janet:] That's right.
[Matt:] You see that y er I mean your chapel could become your idol can't it?
[Jack:] Yes
[Rita:] Yes.
[Matt:] Your minister can become your idol.
[speaker005:] Yes
[Jack:] yes.
[Rita:] Your home can be your idol. Everything can
[Matt:] Oh very much so. Yeah. Yeah.
[Jack:] Your congregation can become your idol.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Rita:] Everything
[Matt:] Yes it can. Yeah.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] trap. Now what's the next portion, verse er verse eighteen?
[speaker005:] Mhm.
[Matt:] Dear ch
[Dennis:] little children.
[Matt:] Dear children, this one says. [reading] This is the last hour.... And as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many Antichrists have come, this is how we know, it is the last hour. They went out from us but they did not really belong to us, for if they had belonged to us they would have remained with us but their going showed that none of them belong to us. [] Now he's referring there to those er people of false believers, wasn't he? Who left departed from the fellowship, I think, isn't he?
[Janet:] Yes.
[Matt:] And er but the last hour
[speaker005:] [cough]...
[Jack:] See how important fellowship and the church was to this man?
[Matt:] Yes.
[Janet:] Mm.
[Jack:] If you went outside it you were lost. You were Antichrist.
[Janet:] Mm.
[Matt:] Er a aye but er but but but they but those who'll but is but if if if we we can get lost in our way if we break fellowship, can't we?
[Rita:] Yes.
[Matt:] Not necessarily but we can. Cos it doesn't Cos you need fellowship don't you?
[Jack:] Yes.
[Matt:] You need it, to feed yourself. Even
[Rita:] Yes.
[Matt:] though Even though that it it might aggravate you, t does something for you doesn't it?
[Jack:] Yeah.
[Rita:] Yes I fully agree.
[Matt:] But But er it was the Galatians that left wasn't it? I think.
[Rita:] Surely it just means everybody against Christ?
[Matt:] The well these are a people who
[Rita:] No.
[Matt:] were in the fellowship but they were
[Janet:] They they get funny with
[Matt:] they were false
[Janet:] things or they some won't go that far. People are leaving all the time from the churches. And new
[Matt:] Especially
[Janet:] ones coming in.
[Matt:] Oh es especially the pentecostal groups
[Janet:] Oh we change over like this.
[Matt:] Oh a terrible
[Janet:] E I only questioned about something on Sunday coming home, and she said well, lady that were bringing me, she said well they won't have it.
[Matt:] They won't have the hard teaching.
[Janet:] No they've got. No
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Janet:] they won't have the hard teaching.
[Matt:] No no.
[Janet:] So they don't last very long. Well some do but She said the idea I mean she said about I was asked a question about an American we've got that is with us but he doesn't preach very often, and I said well where is he? I said er I I imagine cos I've been visiting his wife you see. They said well er I thought perhaps he was away preaching, she says oh no they don't want any of m our people used to go out a lot preaching, but they don't want any of them now because it's too deep for them to
[Sarah:] Yes I can understand that.
[Janet:] And he's very straight, our pastor you know, he he tells 'em straight you know.
[Matt:] Ooh aye oh aye, yeah.
[Janet:] [LAUGHTER] Don't mess about and er well I said [LAUGHTER] I never find [] anything offensive but
[Rita:] I think that's why it's best always to keep it so simple. Don't you?
[Matt:] Well it is a simple gospel.
[Rita:] No it It is but
[Janet:] Well it's not that I mean there's a there's a you but
[Matt:] Ah but
[Janet:] you name what
[Matt:] it
[Janet:] around the m around the Mansfield field, and these Children, at School they know far more than I do at my age I think. And things that's going on, it's got to the children.... Evil things it is.
[Sarah:] Oh yes.
[Janet:] Yes. And and And saying you get people in you see.
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Janet:] Perhaps come for the first time.
[Rita:] Yeah.
[Janet:] Well there's We don't know what their lives like any k way. E they come unto the word and e Well if the want to follow the lord it's different isn't it? But if No good hanging about is it? But he's very very straight about everything. Whatever the lord tells him to say he does it.
[Matt:] And he disciplines her in front of the he'll discipline them
[Janet:] Yeah but he'll he'll discipline them.
[Matt:] in front of the congregation.
[Janet:] And they won't and you see so But understood yesterday, they w they weren't they want to take it you see?
[Matt:] Now. I see here's got such a lot on this but he says erm Well I've lost where I was. [reading] Antichrist can mean either the opponent of Christ []
[Rita:] Exactly.
[Matt:] [reading] or the one who seeks to put himself in the place of Christ. []
[Janet:] Mm.
[Sarah:] Mm. Anti.
[Matt:] [reading] Antichrist can be one who subtly tries to take the place of Christ from within the Church []
[Janet:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] and the Christian community. []
[Rita:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] The one who will be in open an oppos opposition, the other a subtle infiltration. [] he comes in many guises doesn't he?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] Anyway. Er we need to choose the meanings for Antichrist. It can either way. The simplest way to choose is to think of it is that God is the incarnation Christ is the incarnation of God. Which he is. And goodness and the Antichrist is the incarnation of the enemy,det satan himself.
[speaker005:] Oh
[Rita:] Yeah....
[Jack:] Because the Antichrist is not merely somebody who comes along and er and ten times the the violence and persecution and all that.
[Matt:] No.
[Jack:] Like Hitler for example. The Antichrist is a very subtle very
[Matt:] Oh
[Jack:] much more subtle.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Jack:] Very much more subtle.
[Pat:] guise of angels.
[Dennis:] exactly yes. Yes.
[Janet:] [cough]
[Matt:] the Antichrist is not so much a person as a principle. The principle which is actively opposed to God. Cos you see, those people who are working Not coming back to your fellowship is a illustration, they are really They they might be Christians, but they're walking in the l Well th they're allowing the enemy
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Matt:] the there are choice, either submission or going their own way, the pride of the world
[speaker005:] Yes, and this is it, yeah.
[Matt:] t to disobey what John was just saying in those previous few verses.
[Rita:] Yeah.
[Matt:] Er [reading] opposed to God and of which may well be thought of as incarnating itself in those men in every generation, who have sin to be the blatant opponents of God []. Well a lot of people have been called the Antichrist haven't they? Napoleon, Mussolini, Hitler, the Pope and plenty others.
[Jack:] Yes, all these all these
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Jack:] strong people you
[Matt:] Yes.
[Jack:] see. But er Antichrist is often a very much er
[Matt:] And
[Jack:] more harmless looking person.
[Matt:] Oh yes he is Jack.
[Rita:] Yes he is Mm. It can
[Matt:] Yes.
[Rita:] be the type that's very practical towards life,
[Matt:] He can be i er
[Rita:] that has no er psychology or
[Matt:] similar to work miracles he will you know.
[Rita:] Yes. But it can be a very direct, practical
[Jack:] But communism communism was a form of Antichrist.
[Matt:] Ooh Absolutely absolutely. N And Nero and Nero, according to Bartley was very much a a human monster.
[Jack:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Matt:] But to get Antichrist that we've got to d wh where a Is the one who might even proclaim the gospel to us but you know perfectly well there's something wrong with
[John:] That's right. Yes.
[Matt:] Look at, wonderful preacher. Did you No you never met did you? No. Gosh. [cough]
[Jack:] What does it mean when it says it is the last time.
[Matt:] Oh well
[Janet:] Well it's the end of time,
[Matt:] I says since the crucifi
[Janet:] Looking for the Lord's coming aren't they?
[Jack:] Since the crucifixion within the last time haven't they?
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Janet:] Yes. Yes.
[Jack:] I think
[Janet:] And we should be prepared for the er
[Matt:] For the lord's c
[Janet:] Lord's coming last time.
[Matt:] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have thought so.
[Janet:] Mm.
[Matt:] I would have thought so.
[Jack:] See there's two words for time, one is Chronos and
[Matt:] Yes.
[Jack:] the other is Chiros Chronos is time, chronological time, so that when you say the the coming of Christ the time of Christ is near. It means that it'll come sort of next week, or the week after or next year.
[speaker005:] [sniff]
[Jack:] That's Chronos.
[Matt:] Yes.
[Jack:] But Chiros has a different and meaning of time all together. Time is is opportunity, it's occasion. It's er it's it's filled
[Matt:] time. Yes.
[Jack:] It's filled
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Jack:] chronological time. There's all the difference between live and being I Mean being time and being in God. Being in time and being in in the eternity. There's a quality of time and then there's just time. You just spend time, you waste time, you give
[Janet:] Yeah I see.
[Jack:] time away. But if you're wise you fill up time with what
[Janet:] Mm.
[Jack:] last.
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Jack:] Does anybody not understand what I'm trying to
[speaker005:] Oh yes, yes.
[Janet:] yes fully I think.
[Matt:] It's another way, work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
[Jack:] Yes yes.
[Matt:] Fits into that doesn't it?
[Jack:] Because this is the l this is very important time. It's
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Jack:] a very important
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Jack:] time.
[Matt:] It can make you feel very guilty Jack. If you are to
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] worry too much about that because I often wished deliberately, where I could be doing something more productive for the lord.
[Rita:] But don't you think you need to sit and be quite
[John:] Well here again that's one of the arguments. Yeah. That's one of the arguments before
[Rita:] Yeah. I think
[John:] [LAUGHTER] [] [LAUGHTER]
[Jack:] You need to what please?
[Rita:] Well you need to sit and be quite with the Lord as to keep doing for the Lord.
[Jack:] Yes you do, yes yes.
[Rita:] In fact it's wisdom comes into that
[Jack:] Yes. Yes.
[Rita:] doesn't it?
[Dennis:] had er a who used time of course.
[Matt:] [LAUGHTER] Of course. []
[Dennis:] He he was he's very keen on the use of time.
[Matt:] He never wasted any did he?
[Dennis:] No, it's very important, important is time.
[Matt:] [whispering] []
[Jack:] The life above when this is past is a ripe fruit of Earth below. My favourite hymn. The life above, when this is past, is the ripe fruit of Earth below.
[Matt:] Aha. The fruit of Earth below.
[Jack:] Yes. Er
[Matt:] The fruit of your works.
[Jack:] Yes Yes yes.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Jack:] yes.
[John:] Was it used to say keep keep saying buy up the time buy up the time?
[Jack:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mhm.
[John:] used to keep saying that.
[Jack:] the time.
[Matt:] [LAUGHTER]
[Jack:] Buy the time out of the evil days.
[Matt:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Jack:] Very challenging. Very morally challenging.
[Matt:] It is.
[Pat:] Mhm.
[Matt:] Right. Anything more on this? Then we've got the verses... Well b er verses nin
[Jack:] Verses er
[Matt:] Twenty twenty one.
[Jack:] Twenty, you have an unction
[Matt:] [reading] Ah, but you have of the holy one and all that you know, the truth and [] [reading] All of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth but because you do know that it and because no lie comes from that truth. [] So there you are, there's an interesting one, then unction as a holy ghost.
[Alan:] What does it mean when it says you know all things.
[Matt:] Well the spirit reveals it to you, that's what it's really saying isn't it?
[Alan:] What does it mean?
[Matt:] Pardon?
[Alan:] I don't know all things.
[Janet:] Well I suppose i it means that you know the difference between right and wrong cos we've only been We've been talking about it further up haven't we?
[Alan:] Yes.
[Janet:] Not being connected with the world, and being more spiritual. I suppose he means that.
[Alan:] But you know all things, I mean
[Matt:] Spiritual things.
[Janet:] well no not
[Alan:] spiritual kind of life and
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Alan:] What are the full powers he claims to have? What does he claim to Infallibility?
[Matt:] Oh well that's what he claims.
[Alan:] No no don't laugh at that, don't laugh at that. There is something infallible, that's what they that's what they're saying here, that's what he's saying.
[Matt:] Well yes yes there's there's something infallible in i i i
[Alan:] In the unction.
[Matt:] Why in the unction,
[Alan:] Yeah.
[Matt:] a a a i i it's infallible Alan.
[Alan:] Yes yes yes yes
[Matt:] But that's not the difference of a f That's a different thing to what the p papal er interpretation is of
[Alan:] Yes I'm not defending the pope at all.
[Matt:] No. No no. That's an entirely different thing.
[Alan:] But I am defending the fact that there is an
[Matt:] Ooh definitely.
[Alan:] in the Church.
[Matt:] Yes.
[Alan:] there's a an
[Matt:] Yeah. Yes there is.
[Alan:] We know in whom we have belief.
[Matt:] That's right.
[Alan:] We do know.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Janet:] And that's the truth.
[Alan:] That is the That is the last word.
[Sarah:] Yeah.
[Alan:] So we we have got that er that very important o knowing all things. I think it's wonderful. There's such a lot of er erm extraordinary sayings in this er epistle.
[Matt:] Acts ten thirty What does Acts ten thirty eight say?
[speaker005:] Say what?
[Matt:] Acts ten, verse thirty eight. There are reference to that for for for verse twenty....
[Pat:] [reading] A God for Jesus of Nazareth, with the Holy Spirit and how he went around doing deed and healing all around him power of the devil, because God was with him. []
[Matt:] That's when g wh that's that's when God and Antichrist. Yeah well well yeah.
[Pat:] God went out to Jesus.
[Matt:] Er well he anoints us you see? Doing exactly the same thing....
[speaker005:] [cough]...
[Matt:] Second
[Rita:] Well I mean really the healing was their faith wasn't it? Of the
[Matt:] The healing was done through the spirit.
[Rita:] Yes but
[Matt:] One
[Rita:] change was
[Matt:] Two Peter one twelve. Two Peter one twelve.... One twelve.... [reading] So I will always remind you of those things even though you know them as a firmly established in the truth. You ha [] Prophecy of scriptures. That's Peter. [reading] And therefore my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling an election sure. [] This is what you were saying about buying up the time, John in a way, isn't it?
[John:] Yeah.
[Matt:] [reading] For if you do these things you will never fall. [] In other words you will not slip up and fall from sin I suppose. [reading] And you will receive a rich welcome [] which 's hymn says doesn't it?
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[Matt:] [reading] into the eternal kingdom of our lord, the saviour, Jesus Christ. [] So so there [reading] I will always remind you [] Peter says, I will always remind you [reading] of this things that if you buy up the time []
[John:] Yes.
[Matt:] [reading] even though you know [] Even although you know it. And they will e they will establish or continue to build it up.
[John:] Yes yes.
[Matt:] That's what it's really saying isn't it?
[John:] Yes, keep on keep on
[Matt:] Yeah.
[John:] keeping on.
[Matt:] [reading] I think it is right to refresh [] This is the job of the preacher really isn't it? Or the teacher. [reading] I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live, in the tent of his body. Because I know that I will soon put... it aside, as our Lord Jesus has made clear to me. [] So he must have been in Yeah, Aye. [reading] And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things. [] So in other words I'll I'll raise up somebody to fill my shoes I suppose.
[speaker005:] Yeah yeah.
[Matt:] Marvellous isn't it?
[Dennis:] Yeah.
[Matt:] I think it's thrilling, I Any more comments? [sniff]... What verse are we up to now? Have we done twenty one yet? Yes we have
[Dennis:] Yes. Twenty two
[speaker005:] Mm. Mm.
[Dennis:] really
[Matt:] Yeah we've done that.
[Dennis:] refer to it.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] Then we want the verse twenty two. [reading] No lie comes from the truth. [] Twenty one. [reading] Who who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the is the Christ. Such a man is the Antichrist. He denies the father and the son. [] Now who blatantly denies that Jesus is the Christ today?... I'm asking.
[Janet:] All sorts of funny religions I should think.
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Janet:] Quite a few.
[Rita:] Jehovah's Witnesses.
[Matt:] I don't know whether they do or they don't.
[Jack:] Could we Before we get today, could we say that these are the gnostics aren't
[Matt:] Yes yeah yes the gnostics them. But
[Jack:] are the gnostics of their time.
[Matt:] Yeah. Because there was just as much unbelief then as there is now, Jack.
[Janet:] Yeah. That's the way.
[Jack:] Yes. Yes.
[Matt:] That if If the enemy wasn't
[Jack:] Yes.
[Matt:] active wasn't it?
[Rita:] Well a Jehovah's Witness came to my door and said er Jesus Christ was not the son of God.
[Matt:] No. I think they said Jesus Christ is not
[Janet:] Is not God.
[Matt:] God. That's what they said. Oh they believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, alright.
[Rita:] No. Not the
[Matt:] Oh yes.
[Rita:] way he put it.
[Matt:] this is the j
[Rita:] He he said he was a prophet.
[Matt:] They don't they don't accept him They came here for years,
[Rita:] Yeah.
[Matt:] but I've forgotten what the teaching was. What was the teaching?
[Rita:] on what he was saying. But that's how he put it
[Matt:] Ye er there's
[Janet:] but not equal with God.
[Matt:] That's right.
[Rita:] That's right.
[Matt:] Son of God but but Er that's right. But the Mohammedians say it's impossible for Jesus to be the son of God because didn't have a wife, and it's as simple That's ex that's exactly how the Islamics view it. How on Earth can he be the son of God, because God didn't have a wife. And it takes a man and a women to produce a child. That's how the the Mohammedians see that.
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] S with the Jehovah's Witness, I don't whether they come under this category or not.
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Rita:] No I don't
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Alan:] I I read their Bible once and it said at the beginning, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was a god.
[Sarah:] Yes.
[Pat:] They believe in the divinitive God but not in the divinitive Jesus Christ.
[Alan:] Yes yes, yes. word
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Alan:] not God but the word was a god, it's just that difference between a little G and a capital
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] That's right. is is the divine Christ. And in there's a there's there there's a similar confession in in Chapter five five. What does chapter five five say?...
[Jack:] [reading] Who is he that overcometh the world. But he the believeth that Jesus is the son of God. []
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] [reading] He that overcometh the world. But he believeth that Jesus is is the son of God. [] Well I would doubt if the Jehovah's Witness overcometh the world. Having nearly become one. Not in the
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] sense that you and I know it anyway. Overcoming the world. Pardon?
[Sarah:] They're they're a religion that
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Sarah:] in erm in er organization. They worship their organization.
[Matt:] Yeah but they're in no as well. They'll the the it's it's a law job isn't it? They try to keep the law.
[Janet:] Their law.
[Matt:] Yeah. Well they would say it's i i but but there are old testament type of belief, I think.
[Jack:] Actually the er Jehovah Witnesses were some of the most er s strongly opposed to Hitler
[Matt:] Oh yes. Oh yes, they were They were
[Jack:] But they were very much more strongly opposed to him than were many orthodox Christians.
[Matt:] Oh yes. Aye. The Jehovah's Witness they're opposed to all sorts of tyranny, the Jehovah's Witness.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] Look at Dr the leading Presbyterian was persecuted to the Jeho the Jehovah's Witness you know. They maybe even murdered them, I'm not too sure.
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yeah.
[John:] Cos they're against churches generally aren't they?
[Matt:] Well the Antichrist is the church.
[John:] Yes, yes.
[Matt:] I used to go up past there believing the that the minister was the the represented the Antichrist. I did. I did. Because that's what they teach.
[Rita:] Jehovah's Witnesses call Christendom the Whore of Babylon.
[Matt:] Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
[Rita:] And that's us.
[Matt:] Yeah. And that's and that's us. Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Rita:] That's what they call
[Matt:] Now
[Rita:] us, Christendom.
[Matt:] erm five six, this is the one who came by water. This is the part of the What what verse were we on? Because I've forgotten.
[Jack:] We're on twenty two.
[Janet:] Twenty two.
[Matt:] No what verse?
[Janet:] Twenty two.
[Matt:] Twenty two aye.
[speaker005:] two.
[Matt:] This is the er er Jesus the Christ such a man is who denies him. And then my study Bible suggest that we read this. [reading] Water symbolizes Jesus' b baptism, and blood symbolizes his death. These are mentioned because Jesus's ministry began at his baptism and ended at his death. Who is reaching who is rea John is reacting to the heretics of his day, the gnostics. Who said that Jesus was born only a man and remains so until his baptism. [] I think
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] Jehovah's Witness don't say that. Ah. [reading] At that time they maintained that Christ the son of God descended on Jesus but left him before his suffering on the cross. So that it was only the man Jesus who died. Throughout this letter John has been insisting that Jesus Christ is God as well as man. He now asserts that it was this God-man Jesus Christ who came into our world, was baptized and died. Jesus was the son of God, not only at his baptism but also at his death. [] Is that thing still going? Can you see it going? Yeah, when it stops let me know cos I'll turn it over. [reading] This man this truth is extremely important, because if Jesus died only as a man, his sacrificial anointment would have been sufficient to take []
[Janet:] Would not
[Matt:] [reading] Would not have been sufficient []
[Janet:] No.
[Matt:] [reading] to take away the guilt of man's sin. []
[Janet:] That's right.
[Matt:] [reading] The spirit would testifies That is the holy spirit testifies that Jesus is the son of God in two ways. The spirit Jesus is the son of God The spirit descended on Jesus at his baptism, and two he continues to confirm in the hearts of the believer the apostolic testimony that Jesus's baptism and death, verifies that he is the Christ, the son of God. []
[Jack:] I believe myself, that there is no conflict between the human and the divine. None at all. They are they are one.
[Matt:] I don't know what you mean Jack,
[Jack:] The human is divine and the divine is human. The spirit came upon Jesus at the baptism, upon a man, upon a man and it came upon him It raised him from the dead.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Jack:] On the cross as the son of God. And er I am I am a great great believer, but I feel out of that myself, as one of the things I'm feeling out of.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Jack:] The spirit is human and the spirit is divine. There's no con
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Jack:] There's no necessary conflict. We always associate humanity with sin, course we do
[Janet:] Yes.
[Jack:] and we mustn't do that. Real humanity before the fall
[Matt:] Oh yes.
[Jack:] was one with God.
[Matt:] Yes it was. Yes.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[Jack:] And that's what it was with Jesus Christ, it's one with God.
[Matt:] Absolutely yes.
[speaker005:] Mm. Mm.
[Jack:] And that's what it should be with us. One with God.
[speaker005:] Yes yes.
[Janet:] Yes.
[Matt:] But we won't let it a hundred percent till we're there will we?
[Jack:] No, but we are human, which is a good thing.
[Matt:] Yeah, cos I've heard some people stand up, pronounce that
[Alan:] A lot of people find religion very artificial and er
[Rita:] They do
[Alan:] and and
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Alan:] I do.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Rita:] That's right.
[Alan:] Speak more about it then brother.
[Jack:] Mm?
[Alan:] Say some more about it.
[Jack:] What?
[Alan:] Enlarge on it.
[Jack:] Well I I find all religion artificial.
[Alan:] Yeah.
[Janet:] He's talking to the word religion, aren't you?
[Alan:] Yes.
[Janet:] word religion.
[Alan:] Yes.
[Janet:] And that's
[Jack:] Yes, well I never use that word actually myself,
[Janet:] That's isn't it? Yes.
[Jack:] I use the word spirit.
[Janet:] Mm.
[John:] Spirit?
[Jack:] Spirit is human and divine? Do you believe in the divine?
[John:] Well of course
[Jack:] Yeah.
[John:] I'm a Christian.
[speaker005:] Mm. Yes.
[Janet:] I think what you're saying Jack is a is a wonderful comforting feeling. And it gives one a peaceful feeling within
[Jack:] Yes.
[Janet:] That the naf that the natural and the divine are linked.
[Jack:] That's why I feeling out of it I think.
[Janet:] And I think this is er erm a peaceful feeling within us that we need to feel. We don't always want to be testing ourselves all the time, do we?
[speaker005:] No.
[Janet:] I don't think Christ meant us all the time to
[Matt:] Testing ourself?
[Janet:] Well we are.
[speaker005:] We don't.
[Janet:] We're we're
[Matt:] Are we
[John:] We don't
[Janet:] Well we are to a point, you're saying well they're You feel guilty at times, that you're not doing enough. But
[Matt:] I no I know I I ca I know I I I I I I
[Janet:] isn't it?
[Matt:] d I don't think I even I don't think I even feel Did I say guilty? Cos I don't think I do feel guilty.
[Janet:] Well you did feel guilty, I think you said that.
[Matt:] But I I I I I I don't know I er I I don't think I do feel guilty. I just say to myself. [LAUGHTER] [] I s Well
[Janet:] That you could be doing more.
[Matt:] But I'm quite happy not to. I think. I think so.
[Janet:] Yes. where the guilt is.
[Matt:] Yes.... Yes. Verse twenty four now is it?
[Jack:] Thank you.
[Janet:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. []
[Sarah:] Yes now that's dynamic isn't it?
[Matt:] [reading] If it does, you will also remain in the son, and in the father and this is what he promised us even eternal life. []
[Jack:] You see the son and the father and you and all the names
[Janet:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Jack:] Isn't that lovely?
[Matt:] It is.
[Janet:] Yes. That's It is
[Jack:] That's what I'm talking about really.
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Alan:] Seems to me that John is trying to er establish and and pursue the fact that Jesus Christ is [tape change]
[Jack:] You you see if you think right back. In the in the very beginning of our Bibles er the the the prophets and all such people were wanting to establish the fact of God. God is spirit and then when Christ came, when he was born, people had difficulty, great difficulty in accepting him as being of God.
[Matt:] Yes they did. They did. They did.
[Jack:] And and this is what I think what John is trying to get over.
[Matt:] Yes it is.
[Jack:] I think so.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Jack:] Yes he's
[Matt:] Yes.
[Jack:] trying to establish the fact that Jesus is God.
[Matt:] That's right.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[John:] A and that and that he he was born God and that died on the cross as God. Cos there cos there was
[speaker005:] Yes yes yes well of course.
[John:] those other Whatever they called them Galatians were were saying that he was only God from his baptism to Not on the cross, before the cross.
[Dennis:] You see I Jesus all sort man.
[Janet:] Yes because he was man and spirit wasn't he?
[speaker005:] Yes of course
[Dennis:] God and
[speaker005:] He must have been.
[Janet:] He was the link from both of us.
[Alan:] But I think the the the hardest thing is to accept the fact that he is God. We we we know
[Matt:] But
[Alan:] that he we've
[Matt:] but but but
[Alan:] got the record of his birth and his growing up. His development.
[Janet:] human form.
[Matt:] But yes but e e but er but when the spirit quickens you as an individual, at least I had no doubt that he was good. Immediately.
[Jack:] You see the word man is ambiguous. We're all men, if the ladies will excuse me saying that, we're all men and men are human. We're all human. But are we human really? Are we human enough? Are we really human, right through? but Jesus
[Matt:] But
[Jack:] Jesus was human, right through.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Jack:] He was a man, the man the capital man.
[Matt:] We're imperfect anyway aren't we?
[Jack:] Yes.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Jack:] Imperfect. But the capital man, and
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Jack:] God, there is nothing to distinguish between
[Matt:] No.
[Jack:] them.
[Matt:] No.
[Jack:] They're one.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Jack:] I and the father, Jesus said, are one. And er I I you are going to be in thee and I going to thee in you. And then he spoke to his disciples, wonderful unity. I think it's fantastic that.
[Matt:] Yes isn't it?
[Jack:] Very comforting.
[Janet:] It is.
[Jack:] It's comforting to me.
[Matt:] And John says I'm writ
[Janet:] Yeah, it is to me as well.
[Matt:] He says I'm writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Janet:] Mm.
[speaker005:] Yes yes.
[Matt:] Now you see,i isn't isn't it remarkable that the Jehovah's Witness tried to lead us astray, but the minute Christ came in they were wasting their time. Jehovah's Witness isn't it? They came for six months after seven day wonder, something had happened to us. But er they realized Now and every time I she'll ask me, and she'll say. [LAUGHTER] Er Where were we? Verse twenty seven is it?
[Sarah:] Yes.
[Matt:] [reading] Ask for you the anointing you receive from him remains in you. []
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] [reading] And you do not need anyone to teach you. [] Now this is Some people would take that literally. And proclaim that literally. But it doesn't mean exactly what it's saying does it?
[Janet:] No. No.
[Matt:] [reading] But as his anointed teache er as his anointing teachers you []
[speaker005:] All things.
[Matt:] [reading] about all things, and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit, just as it has taught you, remain in him. [] we've met people who would say read your Bible, holy spirit
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] very quickly.
[Janet:] [LAUGHTER] And you don't need u go to church and listen to the preacher. []
[Matt:] No.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Janet:] [LAUGHTER] Oh dear. []
[Matt:] So
[Janet:] [LAUGHTER] Oh dear. []
[Matt:] that is a real Aye. So we're back to the anointing there aren't we?
[Janet:] Can I read that verse in my Bible?
[Matt:] Yes.
[Janet:] [reading] But the anointing, which ye had received of him, abideth in you, and ye need not [LAUGHTER] have any man teach you [] [reading] but as the same anointed teachers you all things, and is truth and is no lie and even as it have taught you, ye shall abide in him. []
[Matt:] Yes. And that's the secret, we should read the word and let the word read us.
[Janet:] Hmm.
[Matt:] That's another way of putting it isn't it?
[Janet:] Mm.
[Matt:] Let the words read us, cos it's God reading us isn't it?
[Janet:] Mm.
[Jack:] Of course God does speak to us through humans beings.
[Matt:] He does.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Jack:] People and they're not only preachers or teachers or so on
[Janet:] Yeah, that's right.
[Jack:] but er. You We learn a lot from one another actually.
[Rita:] I was going to say
[Jack:] That's the idea of this meeting isn't it?
[Matt:] Gosh
[Rita:] And also the experiences of life.
[Matt:] That's right.
[Jack:] Yeah. Yes, yes.
[Rita:] Which is more so isn't it?
[Jack:] Yes.
[Matt:] Oh gosh, aye. We would be we would be Still be very immature if we didn't have one another, wouldn't we?
[Jack:] Yes, indeed
[Janet:] Yes.
[Jack:] Michael, when he was at s When he was at school, he won a scholarship to university, when he got to the university he said as if he'd made a great discovery. He said Dad, there's a lot of people know a lot more than we do.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]
[Jack:] already the intellectual.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Jack:] Very touching tribute to humility.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Jack:] Yes, very good.
[Matt:] And the
[Janet:] Of the natural world.
[Jack:] Eh?
[Janet:] Of the natural world.
[Jack:] Yes that's true of the spiritual world to isn't it?
[Janet:] I thought in your case it would be more the natural.
[Matt:] Now where are we? Verses the last two verses innit?
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] And now dear children [] You see we're back to the children again aren't we?
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] continue in him so that when he appears we may be confident [] That's good isn't it? Confident. [reading] and unashamed before him, at his coming. [] Right? [reading] If you know that he is righteous you will know that everything everyone who does what is right has been born of him. [] That's the test that's the test isn't it?
[Sarah:] It's very hard
[Matt:] That's the test isn't it?
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] has some interesting comments to make about these two verses. Well he's got a a a comment verse twenty seven the anointing. [reading] You have received the anointing of God's holy spirit, he is your teacher, the spirit of truth who will guide you into all truth. He will teach you everything. Jesus promises that. And what does the holy spirit teach you? It teaches you remain in him [] In other words remain in his word and let it remain in you. Live in Jesus keep walking in his way, looking to him who is the author and perfector of our faith. Not looking back or down or in but up to him. And the outcome And now dear children, verse twenty eight,
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] [reading] You have been crucified with Christ. The old nature has been crucified, the new has come. Behold all things are new. So that it is no longer you who live but Christ []
[Janet:] Mhm.
[Matt:] [reading] who lives himself through you. As you live in his righteousness and holiness, by his spirit and presence within you, so you [] That's us. [reading] may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. [] When he comes back again, which he will come to judge the the quick and the dead. And the blood of Jesus This is marvellous isn't it? The blood of Jesus washes your shame away, because
[Janet:] Yes.
[Matt:] he has accepted and forgiven you. It is marvellous isn't it?
[Rita:] Yes
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Rita:] that's wonderful.
[Matt:] Can't loose. Can't e you can't loose [LAUGHTER] in this [] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] []
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] Aye. Marvellous isn't it?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] So that's completed chapter
[Alan:] Two.
[Matt:] Two. What time did you say you were going Jack?
[Jack:] Oh well it depends on the light. I I'll go about ten to nine, five to nine. Ten or five to nine.
[Dennis:] Another quarter of an hour.
[Jack:] Eh?
[Alan:] Another quarter of an hour.
[Jack:] Yes, got another quarter of an hour.
[Matt:] So we move on to chapter three.
[Jack:] You needn't stop because I'm gone. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] Chapter three. Would somebody like to to read the first two verses of chapter three?
[Sarah:] [reading] How great is the lord the father has lavished on us that we should be called children of God? And that is what we are. the reason the world doesn't know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends now we are children of God and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears we shall be like him for we shall him as he his. Everyone will have this hope in him []
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Sarah:] [reading] purifying himself just as he is pure. []
[Janet:] That's wonderful,
[Matt:] Isn't that marvellous isn't it?
[Sarah:] Yes.
[Rita:] And I love the word hope there don't you?
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yes. Good isn't it?
[Matt:] See Yes yeah. but rightful You can't get away from that about the about the creation can you? It's it's brought us back to J to John one again hasn't it? The first verse in John goes [reading] In the beginning, [] Genesis one, [reading] was the word. The Greeks used this term not only of the spoken word but also of the unspoken word. The word still in the mind. [] That's interesting isn't it? [reading] The reasoning, when they [] [reading] applied it to the universe, they meant the rational, the []
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] [reading] principle that governs all things. Jews, on the other hand, used it as a way of referring to God. Thus John used the term that was mean meaningful to both Jews and Gentiles with God. The word was distinct from the father was God. Jesus was God in the fullest sense. []
[speaker005:] ...
[Matt:] I'm on John twelve, the sons of God, [reading] He gave the right, the membership in God's family, is by grace alone. [] Cos you remember last week we accounted for er [reading] He was in the world, and although the world was made through him the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, [] that's in other words that was the Jews wasn't it? [reading] But the Jews did not receive him, yet to all [] That's Jews and Gentiles, [reading] who received him to those who believed in his name he gave the right to become the children of God. And that was, children born not of natural descent nor of human decision, or a husband. But born of God. [] In other words, born this been born again.
[speaker005:] Born again.
[Matt:] Marvellous isn't it?...
[Jack:] [reading] Many shall appear who shall be like him [] [reading] but we shall see him as he is. [] Do you understand that?
[Matt:] Verse whe What verse is that?
[Jack:] Two isn't it?
[Matt:] [reading] Are we a children of God and that we will be as not yet been made known but we but we know that when he appears we shall be like him. [] In spiritually speaking anyway. [reading] For we shall see him as yet I should imagine it's a spiritual condition isn't
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] it?
[Jack:] It's extraordinary isn't it? be changed by just looking at it?
[Matt:] Yes.
[Jack:] Just by seeing it.
[Matt:] Now Colin's got a er another dissertation about verses one and two here. [reading] That is the glorious promise of what you shall be. [] verses one and two.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Rita:] Yeah.
[Matt:] [reading] You can't imagine what it will be like, but when the day of the lord comes [] People don't realize that that the lord's coming back, and they'll be a day of judgement. They don't do they? They never think about it? but when the day of the lord comes, you shall be like because you've been born gain in his
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Matt:] spirit.
[Janet:] Mhm.
[Matt:] [reading] That's why we'll be like him. All those things about your soul that you kn know dishonour him, shall be swept away. [] We got The rubbish won't it? [reading] You shall be like him because you shall see him as he is. []
[speaker005:] He is. Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] Somehow that moment will completely [] on about, wasn't it?
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] will complete the work of perfection, that []
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] God has planned for you and me. God's anointing remains in you, his spirit teaches you, you're to remain in the spirit [] In other words living in Christ. [reading] The father has lavished his love upon you my making you his child. You will be confident and unashamed before Jesus at his coming. When he appears you shall be like him, for you shall see him as he is. [] Now that's the promises.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Janet:] Yeah.
[Matt:] Marvellous isn't it?
[Janet:] Mm.
[Matt:] Gosh. [reading] Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself just as he is pure, [] That's that's Colin goes on to say, [reading] because you shall be like him does not mean that you are to care little about how much of him can be seen in your life. [] Now, [reading] far from it because because he is pure you are to seek purity of heart [] [reading] and now. Purity of mind and thought. []
[Rita:] Yeah.
[Matt:] [reading] Purity of desire and affection, purity of life and action. Living the holy of God's holy people in the power of the holy spirit. []
[speaker005:] Yes. Mm.
[Matt:] Marvellous isn't it?
[Jack:] Hope hope purifies.
[Matt:] Yes.
[Rita:] Yes I
[Matt:] Pur
[Rita:] think that
[Matt:] Isn't that marvellous? isn't it?
[Rita:] I went to listen to him at the methodist church at er Newark about Oh quite a few years when
[Matt:] Oh.
[Rita:] I just came As
[Matt:] Oh aye, Colin?
[Rita:] you know I only wish I could have heard him
[Matt:] Colin at the Methodist?
[Rita:] Yes, he was at the Methodist. You know that very large church at Newark?
[Matt:] Was he in there?
[Rita:] Yes he'd but no at at erm
[Alan:] No Dennis you've got the wrong place.
[Rita:] Mansfield.
[speaker005:] Ah.
[Rita:] have very large Ma er church
[speaker005:] street.
[Dennis:] Bridge Street.
[Rita:] and I I was taken to it by friends.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Rita:] And I heard him and do you know, he was powerful, the way he
[Matt:] Ooh er
[Jack:] Who is this?
[Matt:] Colin
[Rita:] who'd erm Colin
[Matt:] He lives at
[Rita:] Who erm
[Matt:] He's an Anglican
[Sarah:] Matt's reading from.
[Rita:] And erm but it was most inspiring But I would appreciate it even more now
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Janet:] Mm.
[Rita:] than ten years ago.
[Janet:] Mm.
[Matt:] And then verses five to six. You know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And then in him In him is no sin. No one who lives in heaven keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or knows him. Colin goes on to say, there is no sin in Jesus, [] You were saying Jack. [reading] for sin is whatever opposes God. [] Now there's an interpretation of sin.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] If you live in heaven you live in the sinless It would be totally inconsistent, therefore, to pers to persist in your sinful ways, opposing God in your life. [] Now the Galatians said it was okay to do that. [reading] Those who claim faith in Jesus but do not demonstrat [] This is what Our friends John. [reading] but do not demonstrate a life that is lived for him []
[Rita:] Yes.
[Matt:] [reading] Do not truly know or love him. []
[Rita:] Faith without deeds. Yes that's
[Janet:] Mm.
[Rita:] right.
[Matt:] [reading] The power of sin []
[Rita:] Matt.
[Matt:] [reading] no longer grips, []
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] [reading] our life. Even though you can still sin. []
[Janet:] Mm.
[Rita:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] You no longer have to. []
[speaker005:] Mm. No....
[Jack:] Grace transform the fate.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] Grace transform the faith?
[Dennis:] No the fate.
[Matt:] Fate. Yes. Yeah.... [cough] [whistling] Verse five is it now?
[Rita:] Four.
[Matt:] Is it? F Well i did five and six just now.
[Dennis:] Yes well then there's seven isn't it?
[Matt:] Seven. [reading] Dear children do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right, is righteous just as he []
[speaker005:] is
[Matt:] [reading] is righteous. []
[Dennis:] Just as Christ is righteous?
[Matt:] Yes, yeah. [reading] He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil [] [reading] has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. Verses nine. No one This is a hard one, this you know.
[Janet:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] No one who is born of God will continue to sin. Because God's seed remains [] [reading] in him. He can't go on sinning because his he has been born of God. []
[Janet:] Of God. This what I asked you the other week. When you say when
[Matt:] We do. We do
[Janet:] to be sinners.
[Matt:] But we do sin.
[Janet:] We're we're free We should be free.
[Matt:] Should be but we do.
[Rita:] I think we just
[Sarah:] No and we make mistakes Matt, but we don't willingly sin.
[John:] I don't know, myself. We certainly don't need to sin.
[speaker005:] No.
[John:] No.
[Janet:] I mean, if it's pointed out to us by the lord we we try and overcome that don't we?
[speaker005:] Yes,
[Janet:] Whatever it is.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Matt:] [reading] God has made you righteous. []
[speaker005:] And you
[Matt:] [reading] And you can do what is right in his sight. You are no longer a child of the Devil, in rebellion against God. You no longer need to persist in sin. Jesus has destroyed the devil's work and delivered you from the power of sin. God lives in you by the power of his spirit and he will guide you into truth, life and peace. Not sin. If you follow his leading in your life, you will not persist in your sin. [] Is that what you're saying, Janet?
[Janet:] Mm.
[speaker005:] not in your head.
[Matt:] This
[Pat:] don't understand it.
[Matt:] Well this
[Rita:] but you don't s persist in sin do you? Don't really want to sin.
[Matt:] No you don't. you don't. But sometimes we slip up Pat.
[Rita:] Yeah, we slip
[Pat:] Yeah.
[Matt:] [reading] This does not mean that you will never sin [] Right?
[Pat:] Mm.
[Matt:] This is what you're saying isn't it?
[Pat:] Mm.
[Matt:] [reading] but if you if you desire to glorify God then you will not willingly or wilfully persist. []
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Sarah:] This is it, yeah that's it.
[Janet:] That's the way of putting it, isn't it? We know the difference and we are aware
[Matt:] right away doesn't it?
[Pat:] But to think that we do it
[Sarah:] Yes
[Matt:] Yeah. [reading] When God points out your fault you will come ready to him and repent in his in []
[speaker005:] [cough]
[Matt:] because we get back to the first chapter, verse nine. I was never out of that for the first few years I was saved, I was always getting in there, [LAUGHTER] confessing my sins. [] [LAUGHTER] Nearly wore the carpet our in the bathroom.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] Getting down to [LAUGHTER] []
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] [LAUGHTER] []
[Jack:] I remember one, David said, you remember too, after he had committed that terrible
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Jack:] crime and it was with her husband. He said I was born sin. And I said excuse.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Jack:] presumably God
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Jack:] accepts
[Janet:] Yes I wanted to say that.
[Jack:] I was born in sin and shapen in iniquity.
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yes.
[Jack:] That's the excuse he gave.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Jack:] And it wasn't rejected. I think it's part of our nature. We are born in sin.
[Matt:] We are.
[Jack:] We are shapen in iniquity
[Matt:] Yeah yeah, we are.
[speaker005:] Mm.
[Jack:] And there's a conscience as well as a There's an unconscious, As well as a conscious drive in us, which often is not very good.
[Matt:] There's a force within us,
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Matt:] which will lead us on to resisting Christ,
[speaker005:] Yes. Yes.
[Rita:] Yes, that's right.
[Matt:] A a and when you're born again, that's really we but that power without doubt has been broken.
[Janet:] It's destroyed.
[Matt:] But it's that It Well not not entirely
[speaker005:] not destroyed broken
[Rita:] It's been broken.
[Matt:] It's been broken and that
[Rita:] Mm.
[Matt:] and that's marvellous isn't it?
[Rita:] Yes.
[Matt:] Because i because people will hate you and I because they don't hate us
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Matt:] but they hate Christ.
[Pat:] Yes. That's right. Mm
[Matt:] It's a It's tremendous isn't it?
[Pat:] It's the hauteur isn't it?
[Matt:] Pardon?
[Pat:] It's the hauteur.
[Matt:] Yes.
[Jack:] And I've had to believe in the power of the subconscious as well as my own responsibilities,
[Matt:] Yes, yes.
[Jack:] but there is a power of the subconscious.
[Matt:] Yes.
[Jack:] There's a power of the unconscious I think, I think.
[Matt:] Power of the unconscious?
[Jack:] Power of the unconscious.
[Matt:] I would have thought so.
[Jack:] Yes yes. In other words for er si the heart is deceitful.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Matt:] Very deceitful.
[Rita:] But don't you think Jack, all stress should be taken out of it?
[Matt:] All stress
[Rita:] Yes because
[Matt:] should be taken out of
[Rita:] Yes, of ourselves because we should be in a peaceful. Surely we should be in a joyous peaceful [yawn]
[Matt:] Yeah, if we could if we could be working really in the spirit at all times, yes.
[Jack:] Yes yes yes.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Matt:] If we were really working in Christ all the time, yes
[Rita:] I think Yes but I I think God's got the pattern for us
[Matt:] Yes he has, providing we can work really in Him, all the time.
[Pat:] But this is where we fall short
[Rita:] Exactly
[Matt:] We fall short, Oh we're we are
[Rita:] Yes
[Matt:] we are joint we are an equal with Christ, a joint with him,
[Rita:] Mm. I know, but I feel we should stress the peace that that we're given.
[Matt:] Yes, well we are given peace
[Jack:] We should stress
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Jack:] the power.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Rita:] And the power,
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Rita:] And the grace we're given
[Jack:] Yes, oh yes.
[Rita:] And the love we're given.
[Jack:] That's right, hit again
[Rita:] This is the this is thing we should be
[Matt:] That's the message, that's the message.
[Rita:] That's right.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Rita:] And I mean
[Matt:] That's what the the preacher should be
[Rita:] this is what you want to say to other people isn't it?
[Matt:] That's right
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Matt:] And that's what the preacher should be
[Rita:] Oh they say to me have you seen the sins of the world? Have you
[speaker005:] That's it.
[Rita:] seen what Bosnia's like?
[speaker005:] That's it go on
[Rita:] Have you what this is like?
[speaker005:] And be positive. [LAUGHTER]
[Matt:] That was Henry's idea Hen Henry always never talk and spoke about sin. He tal he spoke
[Rita:] I know
[Matt:] about the love of God.
[Rita:] Exactly and I feel
[speaker005:] Yes Yeah. Yeah.
[Rita:] I think we all feel like this don't we? We want to stress the love that He's changed our lives.
[Matt:] Yeah but how can How do you prove it to somebody else if they don't haven't known it?
[Rita:] Don't ask me Matt, I've been sitting talking for many long days
[Matt:] No no. It's i i i
[Rita:] and and sometimes I think to myself, would I love this person that i'm talking to, to become a believer of Christ? And I say to myself, what a long way they've got to go.
[Matt:] Well it's only it's only a er er It's only the the the journey from the mind to the heart.
[Rita:] Yeah but it's the growing isn't it?
[Matt:] Well no, it's an instantaneous journey for many.
[Rita:] Oh I do hope so, cos I've never
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Rita:] seen it
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Rita:] really.
[Matt:] Yeah.
[Rita:] I've never never seen or witnessed that.
[Matt:] You would you would say you were a gradual conversion?
[Rita:] Mm. I'm still like it now.
[Matt:] Yeah. Yeah. Well I wasn't, I was an instantaneous conversion.
[Rita:] Mm.
[Jack:] still making slow progress aren't you?
[Matt:] Oh yes. But I was an instantaneous conversion.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rita:] Yes.
[Jack:] You're still making?
[Rita:] Yes.
[Pat:] I think everybody progresses,
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[Pat:] all their lives.
[Jack:] We are whether you're
[Sarah:] to your journey's end
[Jack:] suddenly or slowly
[speaker005:] Yes.
[Matt:] Yeah, you are. More so than what you think.
[Jack:] Does the lord wind up hill all the way, the very end.
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER]
[Jack:] I must leave now, don't stop now, please carry on.
[Matt:] Well I think it's time to stop now.
[Jack:] God bless.
[Janet:] it does tend to if you
[Pat:] Bye bye Jack, take care
[Matt:] Bye bye Jack
[Rita:] got your mac on his chair.
[Matt:] How do we stop this? [tape change]