[speaker001:] .
[Stan:] And we're
[Mike:] Performing this lovely task for you in Cumbernauld in bonny Scotland.
[Stan:] It's now quarter past nine.
[Mike:] Your old man here has brought me all the way up here for a complete and utter waste of time
[Stan:] [LAUGHTER].
[Mike:] and has only offered to buy me one beer so far.
[Stan:] Two.
[Mike:] Two.
[Stan:] Right....
[Mike:] Well let's see if that comes over.... [break in recording] That's if I can get this going.... Yeah. Right the idea of this [sigh] little chat this briefing before we go out and do the... er driving assessments next week is just to sort of give you an idea and a... and a bit of an inroad into what we're looking at and what we'll be doing next week. Now... er who did it last year amongst you? [sigh] I know Dougie did. [sigh] Two, three.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Must have been the year before you did it then.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Yeah. Right. So I mean obviously er if you've done it before And have y have you done one before at all?
[speaker001:] I don't know.. My dad's.
[Mike:] Did you?
[speaker001:] Yeah. . There was one just prior to that.
[Mike:] I think er
[speaker001:] . .
[Mike:] [whispering] That's quite a coincidence. [] Were they?
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mike:] Well th the thing is those of you who did it last year with me, it'll follow much the same sort of format, so... Erm but we didn't do a little talk before. Now that idea was to get everybody together and erm because there have been certain members of the staff which haven't been looked at for a period of time they've escaped the net as it were in the last couple of times and it seems that we've had the same guys for the last three years and some have erm...
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] [LAUGHTER] Well I suppose that's it you see. When you when you come up here and do the driving you find that erm because people are are just not available at the time and erm y I'm here just for a and Stan only here for a a limited period, and er you're sort of trying they're downstairs they're trying to get people... off the trucks when they come in or whatever the case may be to go out and do an assessment run, and it's not always possible. Now this time we're here for four weeks so... it would... probably be that they want to get everybody through this time without anybody escaping the net. And the the policy now with is that this will ta now take place I know that there's been somebody here for the last three years, but this will now take place every two years. So er... er whether or not it'll be the same faces c l as come up and do it er But it it shouldn't make that much difference. It will follow the same format. But of course it is nice to come back to the same places over and over again, sort of er... see friendly faces. [LAUGHTER]. And er it does make a bit of continuity.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] There's a few scowls and grimaces. [LAUGHTER]. Right, so... the company that we work for is and they are one of the a number of companies which... are operating in the fleet driver training market, and erm they we pren presently have the contract with for this f f course of defensive driver training. Now they call it defensive driver training and er what we're really talking about is safe driving, nothing more and nothing less. And er if you have a defensive driving technique then of course you'll be driving safely. Would you not agree with that?... So first of all then, what will we be doing? Now when we go out on the road... we would like to go through a vehicle check with you. Erm [sigh] now we didn't er it's not always possible to do that. The last year wasn't because... the way things were running and the way drivers were being brought in. But where possible we would do a t er a vehicle check. And now this time we would like to do a vehicle check with you when we before we go out.... Erm I think it it is beneficial mainly in the sense that erm if nothing more than running round the vehicle to make sure there are no marks and bangs and scratches on it which you're going to inherit from the the previous run that it had er with a different driver perhaps.
[speaker001:] . Yeah but she's a.
[Mike:] ?
[speaker001:] . Aye. .
[Mike:] I'm f frightened of ben move down in case all the wiring comes off. [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Oh yeah, that's right. We were looking at that last night. So you would just take that round and just mark on anything
[speaker001:] that's gotta be.
[Mike:] And that's just a pre-vehicle check before you go out is it?
[speaker001:] Well
[Mike:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Right. And n normally I suppose the company have a policy in relation to checking oil, water and all the necessary bits and pieces before you go out in the morning. Is that right?
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Is that done once a day or each driver?
[speaker001:] Each driver.
[Mike:] Each driver. So the fact that the vehicle has been out on shall we a mor a morning delivery and the the back shift man comes in and has a look at it, he would then have to do it all again. Right so we we just we would like to do that bef before we go out. Now the time which erm i is scheduled for around about half a day each. Now obviously commercial requirements might mean that that is modified to some extent. But erm I think last year we w Was it about three hours they went, last year? Do you remember? About three hours wasn't it Dougie?
[speaker001:] No it was about two. Just about two.
[Mike:] Two. Er
[speaker001:] Two hours.
[Mike:] Yeah. It d it did depend on the t run that we had.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Yeah. But erm say this yeah it'll probably follow the same format. And now when we first start off er I know what it's like. It's not very nice when you're driving the vehicle and er I know you're all experienced drivers and then you get somebody sitting there alongside you starting to look at you do, and I I you could've been driving all your life but you still feel a bit edgy and a bit tense. Is that not so? When someone's looking at you.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Yeah. So what we want to do is erm for everybody to drive naturally. You know, not put anything special on because... either myself or Stan is sitting alongside you. And er you won't drive naturally for two reasons I suppose. One is that you want to make sure that erm you do everything right. Well that is good. I mean if you're going to sort of er er dr vary your driving a little bit to put in the techniques that you think should be put over, that's good. However sometimes you can fall into the pitfall of [LAUGHTER] doing things []... erm because you think that we want to see that. And very often we don't. You'd very often be better off driving as you normally drive. Do you follow what I mean?
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[Mike:] Now the other reason why of course you won't perhaps erm drive naturally is because of this little bit of tension at the fact that who's this... person sitting here looking at what I'm doing? and it it's putting me off. And that does do that. So to start with what we're... doing is just having a little assessment, seeing what sort of driving erm techniques that you have. And also we can have a little chat, providing it doesn't upset any concentration, just to break the ice and settle in and er relax you and to drive normally. And er... I say, we're we're not here to... er nitpick, picking up every little fault that a driver does going along the road. Cos it doesn't matter who you are or what you are, reverse the roles, everybody makes mistakes when you're driving. So we're not looking for little every little error that a person makes. It's not like a ministry test or anything like that as some of you are are well aware. You're just looking to see if there are any aspects of a person's drive where, you know, one or two habits might have crept in which could possibly encroach upon safety margins to some extent. Or you may sort of erm people who you do the same thing over and over again, the same sort of job, would you not agree a little bit of complacency can set in and erm things don't perhaps come over quite as they should? And so we will try and reestablish and reaffirm the main basic principles to make sure that you maintain proper safety margins and er good reaction time, room to manoeuvre, as we're going through. So... that that's all it is. There's nothing t to anybody to get really uptight about. And then... we'll carry on er having had a stop and a little chat about different things, we then carry on, and if there are sort of some areas in the drive which we think might sort of erm... Come in chaps.
[speaker001:] Morning. Morning.
[Mike:] [cough].
[speaker001:] . . . much. Thank you very much.
[Mike:] I've only just been talking about what we're going to do. Stan at the back, Mick, are the company and I think we met last year didn't we?...
[speaker001:] I think so.
[Mike:] Yeah. I think s Oh I can't remember. Some faces you c
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] No. Anyway.
[speaker001:] . I missed it. [LAUGHTER]
[Mike:] [LAUGHTER] Another one escaped the net last year.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] So I was just saying that this year it would be hopefully everybody will go through it. And it will be company policy from now on that it'll be every two years. Alright? The new policy has been formulated. And I'm just going through what we're going to be doing whe on the training day itself, or the assessment day. First of all as I said, we'd like to go through a vehicle check before we go out. Then... we'll go out on the road. The first little bit of time is spent just to sort of take it easy, take our time, get to know another, and for us to assess the drive. And then we can pull in or have a stop, probably at the delivery if it's a delivery involved, we can have a little chat about any areas which we can discuss. And then a bit of a roundabout route coming back, trying to get a variety of road, and any areas of the drive which we can look at, we will, discuss amongst ourselves, practise one or two things, maybe one or two little techniques. And then... when we come in, the assessment form is written out and erm... er there's a marking sheet which I'll I'll sh sh show you before we go out on the road. There's marking sheet, and on the back comments about what we've done and er the standard which you you drive at. Now both Stan and I have the same policy that erm we will write out It takes about ten minutes, or maybe a little bit longer with me, cos I'm not as clever as Stan.... It takes a little bit longer for me, but erm we show you then what's on the sheet, so you know what is there. Alright? And then if there's any areas which you want to discuss with us then by all means... we can.... Right. Any questions about what we're gonna do on the day then? That's just a rough precis about what we're gonna do. Right what we've got t like to sort of talk about now is just one or two aspects ab about... defensive driving techniques. Why we do it and and what it's all about. Erm... I think th... as far as... lorry drivers are concerned Stan and I both go around various companies and you are dealing with... car drivers, van drivers, large goods vehicle drivers such as yourself, and er it's fair to say that erm there are different levels of ability in each case. But normally you find that erm... both Stan and I would consider the large goods vehicles drivers as being the professionals, because you are driving all the time. Would you not agree that your job is driving? Really not much else is it?
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Er it is driving. Now you get the car drivers... they are not really drivers. They are given a company car to get from A to B, and their main work starts when they get there isn't it? And therefore for for various reasons their interest in driving, in most cases, not all, cos I mean some of them are very good, but in most cases their interest in driving i is... is limited to what they're gonna do in their time off.... Not an interest in perhaps, bit more depth of thought i in surviving while they're driving. Whereas people such as yourselves er have got two things in mind. You're gonna be on the road, the number of miles you do... is obviously going to put you at risk, more than somebody who does a third of your miles. Would you not agree to that?... It's not relative, because anybody who does... er more er er a great number of miles, then you would i i imagine that because they do this amount of miles that their ability would be overall better because of the experience they gain by doing to extra miles. But i we're all in a in a risk business.... And... what we say is, and what we're trying to put over, I'm su I'm sure you're fully aware of yourselves,... is that it's no good going around [sigh] driving your drives thinking that it's never going to happen to you. Do you think that's fair comment?... Now er with the vehicles on the road today more and more accidents And certainly motorways, and bearing in mind I would imagine, er would it be true to say that the majority of mo... driving is done on motorways and dual carriageways?... When you get
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Mm. So when you get accidents on motorways they're normally pretty horrendous aren't they? It's not just one vehicle involved. And I we just feel that cannot go along thinking it's never gonna happen to you. You we should do something about it. And as a company, whatever other political [LAUGHTER] ideals you have about them [], but as a company they are very safety conscious.... And erm they are doing whatever they can do just to keep people aware of the need to maintain safety margins. And unless you do something positive yourself... to maintain safety margins you're not gonna turn around and say it's not gonna happen to you. The chances are you're more likely to be involved in something. And so the idea of these days is just to reaffirm these erm basic principles of safety. But having done it, having completed... the half a day or whatever it is we have, you know it's not really a case of saying Right well that's it. It's something which really should be thought about continuously er and carried on. Which is why of course they've decided on th the grading system that they have, that they want people to achieve perhaps a class one status wherever possible and maintain it. And it will not be maintained really unless that sort of effort is put in throughout the year.... So th as far as si Oh excuse me. As far as the risks are concerned then... we feel that by adopting a technique, defensive driving technique, that the risks will be... calculated more in your favour. Do you not agree with that? So let's drive on the road taking a calculated risk, as opposed to sort of just driving along hoping it's never gonna happen to you and I.... Now I'd just like to sort of This is a... This is not very clear on here but I would just like to bring out... This is an accident which happened down in Kent about two years ago now. And this is er a dual carriageway. It's not motorway. That's the central reservation. But there are no crash barriers down the centre, it's it's straight over.... And er this is the way to Dover and the docks, this is the way to London.... Nighttime... weather conditions good visibility, fine, clear, no real problems. But it was dark. And these this is er a private car going along the road about fifty miles an hour going down towards Dover. Now this is er a lorry,... end it's er I think it's a Frenchman. So it's a left hooker, the driver's sitting over there. Now this is a a British lorry coming down in the offside lane, cos it's only two lanes. And erm... this one is slowly closing on that one, this one is catching up on this one at quite a rate of knots. And you can tell what's gonna [LAUGHTER] happen can't you []? As this one comes up to this one here, this one then pulls out to overtake this vehicle.... And er to avoid a collision and in fact I think they did strike but I'm not really sure, but to avoid a collision this one then goes over the other side of the road, picks up this Ford Orion coming the over way, rolls it over the bank, and it goes underneath the tractive unit of the artic. And consequently this poor guy is... killed.... Now I I'd just like your your opinions as to what you think that erm... you you would How would you think about that as a accident? Was it a Who was to blame, would you think? If we're gonna call it a blameworthy accident. So first of all we'll have a look at a a blameworthy aspect of it, then we'll have a look if whether or not it was avoidable. Can I ask you who you would think would be to blame for that accident?...
[speaker001:] Er overtaking one could have maybe slowed down.
[Mike:] Yeah. Would you agree with that?
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yes. .
[Mike:] Mm. I think that... as professional drivers we would all w look at that and s and see that Er I mean been out with... very many lorry drivers and er that is the way that I've sort of been with the majority of the guys that I've been in. Every now and again you're with somebody who's putting their foot down and either not anticipating enough or not thinking in enough depth, or they might have an attitude whereby sod it, I'm just going anyway.... But absolutely right, I mean there the guy should be able to see that this person is closing up on there.... And the thing to also as he gets closer, as it's a foreign vehicle he should be able to
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] ... clock the?
[speaker001:] The left-hand drive.
[Mike:] Yeah. Clock that it's a left-hand drive, and therefore perhaps give a little bit more consideration to that driver... and anticipate the fact that he might come out. Now... when the accident was all complete and over and the the tachograph of this vehicle was examined, the speed was I think it was eighty two or eighty three miles an hour Stan wasn't it?
[Stan:] Yeah that's right.
[Mike:] Now [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] [LAUGHTER] That's plenty fast enough for a for a thirty-eight-tonne articulated vehicle isn't it? Fully laden. Plenty fast enough. He's got a bit of a roll on going down the hill would you not agree?... Now again, [sigh] that is too fast for an H G V. It's too fast for anybody in some circumstances. But let's face it gents, speed in itself on a completely open road with nobody around is not in itself dangerous, that's down to the individual.... I might suggest that perhaps eighty three miles an hour [LAUGHTER] is a bit over [] the top anyway.... But when you've got other moving vehicles around and things which could happen, eighty three miles an hour is far too bloody fast isn't it? Far too fast. So certainly er your point is absolutely right. What so what be p doing then, would be looking, assessing and anticipating that this might happen, and then easing off and an and holding back to see whether A, is he going to come out? or B, is he going to steady? You're satisfied he's staying where he is, before you move through.... What about erm any would you say an er blame attached to anybody else?...
[speaker001:] Well er partially in that the lorry that pulled out
[Mike:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] mainly for the boy at the back.
[Mike:] Because of his speed and er Th certainly this one here, I mean the Highway Code says that you must make sure that it's safe before you commence an overtaking manoeuvre. And he hasn't done that has he? Erm... he's Alright you can excuse the fact that he might be a left-hand... drive vehicle. This bloke here has only just come about fifteen miles up the road. He's from his depot. He hasn't come far. No telling us where I don't know this one come but being a foreign driver I mean he he could have from anywhere in the country and he could have been on the road a long time. And the fact that he's a left-hand... drive he's erm perhaps not got quite the view out of his... offside mirror, or our offside mirror it would be to us, that perhaps somebody like yourselves have with er a right-hand drive vehicle. So he certainly [sigh] didn't pay due care to the pace and the speed and make sure that he'd got a safe gap before pulling out. So certainly.... I think the end result was that erm I say this man was dead so Married man with four children just coming home from work, minding his own business. He got two years for dreath death by reckless driving. This one was done for driving without due care and attention and he got the maximum fine. It was fifteen hundred quid or something like that. But that was the result. Now we've got it erm... Are we switched on here Stan?
[Stan:] Yeah....
[Mike:] Gonna do it for me? Th this is just a a video of the erm... accident itself. It only shows you the the aftermath of it,... but i it's erm just highlights the point. And when we're talking about defensive techniques, anticipation obviously is one of the things which is the hallmark of... the top drivers isn't it? Your degree of anticipation is It's one of the most important things which is going to keep us safe.... One of the top skills a driver's got have on a road if he's gonna maintain safety. [static] [shouting] This guy when he the policeman spoke to him afterwards, his words to the policeman Now let's bear in mind he might have been in shock. [] His words to the policeman were I like driving fast don't I? [static] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] . I know but I mustn't say that on here. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER].
[Mike:] [static] [shouting] This is not for er any sort of [] This i I'm doing this talk here for erm Stanley's daughter who's at er college, and she likes to hear the sound of my voice when I'm sober. So [LAUGHTER].... [static] If I do say the odd naughty word just scowl at me. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] ....
[Mike:] So you can see that er... that's the Orion underneath there. They're just zooming into it there. It's absolutely smashed to pulp. It took three hours to get what was left of the body out....
[speaker001:] That's a job in itself then.
[Mike:] N
[speaker001:] Yeah. Mm.
[Stan:] If you think of the trauma on the people who have to deal with that.
[speaker001:] aye.
[Stan:] Now you never forget those sort of things.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Stan:] Cos both Mick
[speaker001:] Aye.
[Stan:] and I were... used to do that sort of work, and er you can remember every incident.... Particularly those that very harrowing. You never really forget them....
[Mike:] I know those... pictures there are just showing you the result of something but you know when we discuss... erm er a p er a situation it's not a theoretical situation, it's something which happened, something that does happen. And erm... you know as lorry drivers, we we... class ourselves as the professionals of the road,... but at the end of the day our... standards or our reputation is tarnished by the actions of a few isn't it? And I'm sure that when we go down the road we can Although i we're always ready to look at erm car drivers and some of the stupid things they do and some of the stupid things that they do which annoy us, at the end of the day w you've still got to bear in mind that erm there are people in our own fraternity, as it were, that er don't do as they should....
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] But let's see just see the number plate on it underneath there the
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] ... cab's rolled right over the top.
[Stan:] Sometimes these blokes they have just to commit one particular error, resulting in a action like that.
[speaker001:] .
[Stan:] And erm
[speaker001:] Just that one wee mistake.
[Stan:] That's all it needs.
[speaker001:] That's right.
[Stan:] Having said that, the tachograph of that particular vehicle illustrated that as far as the speed was concerned it wasn't one isolated incident. In other words he was consistently at that i part on that particular day,
[speaker001:] .
[Stan:] without backtracking on previous ones, on that particular day he was... pushing it.
[speaker001:] .
[Stan:] For whatever reason. And the reason doesn't matter as Mick has said because we're talking about the situation and the man's... attitude of mind at that particular time. All that's all that it needs you know, for him to alter... his attitude.
[Mike:] Right.... [cough] So when we're talking about defensive driving and we're talking about safety, which is the main object of all this, [static] [shouting] to keep yourself safe [] one of the most important things is the attitude of the individual, would you not agree? And it's the attitude I think that very often causes everything from a major accident like that where someone loses their life, and very often... to the small little... scrape on a lorry which occurs in a in a in a yard. The attitude of the driver. Bit too fast, bit too blase, whatever the case may be. Having said that, [LAUGHTER] I've been on some of the deliveries that you guys have to do, and some of the places where you have to go into, and er I fully appreciate it's not easy. And the fact that I say that a lot of these accidents happen because perhaps you're not paying the attention, very often I've been or know of situations where the bloke is... really paying attention to what he's doing and the still the unfortunate occurs. So I'm I don't want to sit here holier than thou, start preaching that erm... you know things are not going to happen, because we're all human and we all make errors. But erm we could cut down an awful lot of these accidents and erm it doesn't matter at the end of the day... what level it is. Cos the end result Th the potential is always there. Do you follow what I mean? The end result might only be a slight scratch, but the potential might have been in that situation for something a lot worse. So it's it's always there. And attitude is the thing which erm... we look at quite closely, and I think you must consider your attitude. For instance, a person who naturally er y has a got a bit of a short fuse. [LAUGHTER] Now that very often, you get that sort of individual, their attitude could at some or other be detrimental to their standard of driving. Would you not agree with that? So she other thing is you get p some people who are naturally aggressive.... Car drivers for instance, you you get car you the Your neighbour is probably the nicest bloke you've ever met in your life. Soon as he gets behind the wheel of a car he's an absolute dickhead....
[speaker001:] Taxi drivers. [LAUGHTER].
[Mike:] [LAUGHTER]. You probably know a few. [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [LAUGHTER] What are you looking at me for? .
[Mike:] [LAUGHTER]. We must have touched a little spot there I think Stan.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[Mike:] So th this a aggressive attitude. Now the other way of course which your attitude can er be affected is that you're probably yourself quite a relaxed... steady sort of guy, but do you respond, do you react to... the antics of another road user? In other words, someone throws down the gauntlet, do you pick it up? You know we've all see th t One we've discussed a couple of times.... Down the motorway, say just two lanes, or whatever, roadworks ahead, all moving down, the offside lane closes in eight hundred yards, six hundred yards, and you're going along in your lorry and the cars going [car noise]. Two hundred yards, [car noise], [LAUGHTER] still going by []. Three inches. They're still gonna try and get by if they can. Now very often I c you can understand it can't you that these people And you're in the queue. You you're sort of just stopping and starting, stopping and starting as the others are going down. And you could quite rightly think, Why don't they take their turn? Now you could react in two ways. There's the one coming down, right at the last minute, wants to get in at th the very last minute. You've got two options.... The o
[speaker001:] . [LAUGHTER].
[Mike:] What was that Dougie? [LAUGHTER] Oh sorry, I mustn't mention the name. [LAUGHTER].
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] That's right. You can, as I said just now, pick up the gauntlet and say squeeze him out and force him through the cones and whatever thing might result of that, you just don't know, or you can say, Well alright, ease off,... go on, you have the space, I don't really need it, I'm not in a hurry. Now the the correct attitude we all know is the one where you ease off. And I suggest to you gents, that's the only way you can drive without getting involved in something. Cos the minute you react to what that person's doing, your involved and y and you're as bad as he is.... So... The other thing you've got to think about, if you do react... the wrong way, and we've probably all been tempted to at times if we haven't done it, but if you do react the wrong way,... consider who is that person coming by?... You think it... could possibly be, and it may well be, some rep, in his car, rushing from here to there, don't give a toss about anybody else, as long as he gets where he wants to go. And that is in your mind when you react... the other way. Would you not agree?... Have you ever considered to stop to think, well it it might be... your son, your daughter, who's just passed their test,... and that's doing this in er and just doesn't know any better. I mean because motorways can be quite frightening to people who've just passed their test. And they get themselves in situations don't they, inexperienced drivers? Which they wish... to God they'd never got into.... So it might be with a bit of help from you,... y you could teach them a valuable lesson.... I it may not be the case, but I think it's possibility you've got to consider, isn't it? That by easing off, holding back, you could teach them a valuable lesson and they they'd sit there And you've seen them sometimes, when they come alongside you and they're forced and th they don't what to and they look up and go... [frightened noise]. There's fear, they're pale. And er so I think there's a thing you could think of there is that, who is this person doing this? It might not be the dickhead you think it is.... It might be a lady driver with a couple of children in the car, again doing her incompetent best. So I'd just ask yourself the question before you react untoward towards a situation like this.
[speaker001:] worth the hassle.
[Mike:] Sorry?
[speaker001:] Is it worth the hassle?
[Mike:] Well that alone. That alone. Because at the end of the day, if something does happen... you've got all this filling in to do and you might well turn around and say It wasn't my fault, you could turn around and say it was their fault for coming by. But was this situation avoidable?...
[speaker001:] . It's worse when and you go. [LAUGHTER].
[Mike:] I'd just like to sort of show you... And th this is a...
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] You've probably seen this have you? Yes. It's an accident on the M Six, and er now if you look there in a moment you'll see a car come out of control up through there.
[speaker001:] Is that rain?
[Mike:] That's rain, yeah. Look, see he's just... he... pry trying to brake. Look at the van on
[speaker001:] Oh.
[Mike:] the central reservation. Everyone's trying to brake and get out of the way. Now that starts it. Look at the white van on the right.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Now obviously he's got nowhere to go. Now watch the white van in the middle. He can't stop.... Now look at the fast lane at them all pi piling in the back.
[speaker001:] Oh dear! Oh dear. Oh! [breath]
[Mike:] That one [LAUGHTER] goes right across [].
[speaker001:] . Ooh he just managed to make it. That's for all the people a couple of miles up the road.
[Mike:] Now look at Right at the very back,
[speaker001:] at the back.
[Mike:] Er right at the top there you'll see an artic... jackknife right into the back. See him going across there?
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Right across the carriageway. Well that's effectively brocked that hasn't it. [LAUGHTER] Mm. Doesn't take long does it?
[speaker001:] No.
[Mike:] Attitude play a bit of a part in that?
[speaker001:] . Hadn't noticed that. .
[Mike:] It could have been. The film is
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] probably a couple or three years old now, and it was
[speaker001:] Right.
[Mike:] taken by
[speaker001:] . Sixth of August ninety. Wish you could do that here. That'd be fine. Aha. Turn it all back.
[Mike:] [LAUGHTER] Start again. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] The first guy who slipped there, probably these people that s maybe... one or two in his. What one? What one? And then this
[Mike:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] ....
[Mike:] As well as
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] looking at those that were involved in the accident look how close... look how close
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] they are there.
[speaker001:] Aye.
[Mike:] But look at some of the others. You'll s
[speaker001:] . That guy I mean he was winging it. He he was...
[Mike:] He just couldn't stop so he swerved out you see and lost control
[speaker001:] .
[Stan:] Mm. He was so close.
[speaker001:] Aye.
[Stan:] And er he he realized too late.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] H I was gonna say, look at that lorry up there, which is probably this one.... Now er some of them can stop you see.
[speaker001:] Mm. Yeah.
[Mike:] Some can stop. Coming down through there, at the top there, I think we've probably missed them now. Th there er look. Now he's
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] coming down quite steady.... There are some of
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] those are driving quite sensibly and can stop.
[speaker001:] he shunted up behind....
[Mike:] What we're trying to say gents is that a situation like this, the best driver in the world really y you you could get involved in something. But you can take... efforts, you can make the effort yourself to keep yourself safe. Separation distance.... is the mo Especially in that sort of weather. You've gotta keep well back. You've gotta give yourself that time... to react and that room to manoeuvre. And if you've got somebody right up your bum... keep further space so that you can lead them into a situation safely, as opposed to sort of having a anchor on yourself.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Now i... it's the sort of thing that you... y you read about, you pick up the the paper, you put n news on, and Nasty accident on the M Eight or... M Six, whatever the case may be, and a lot of vehicles are involved. So the lesson to be learnt from that is that erm... it's not always possible to keep yourself out of trouble, but you can do what you have to do... to keep yourself safe by maintaining a proper separation distance. And bearing in mind when you get that sort of weather, the separation distance has to... be double. Do you know what th we mean by the two-second rule?
[speaker001:] No.... If you pass a... too fast.
[Mike:] That's right. And for lorries they say four seconds. Which should be in some cases be doubled in very bad weather like that. Now obviously the you could see the cars in that fast lane there, they were just nose to tail, nose to tail. And you can see them like that every day you drive down a motorway. But stop and think gents. have you ever seen lorry drivers like that?
[speaker001:] Mhm. Mm. Mhm.
[Mike:] Now
[speaker001:] . [LAUGHTER].
[Mike:] A lot of people would turn round and say Right I'm a lorry driver and I I leave a nice gap. What happens to the gap?
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Somebody will pull int between it. But then... you might feel that you're going backwards but you still just modify your position to keep that gap there. And just ask yourselves the question... when another lorry's coming by you, what do you do when he's just clear?...
[speaker001:] Flash.
[Mike:] Flash him to let him come in?
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] And when he comes in what have you done to your safety distance?
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] So again, it's a thing which you might consider when you're er letting vehicles come in front and er... I... the rights and wrongs of erm flashing lights, er really the only flashing lights should take the place of a horn. That is the Highway Code's erm... system for flashing signals. Y drivers, we know they have their own code,... and er what we say is, although we perhaps don't agree with it ourselves, you do it. All we say is that just be a little... bit more considerate about when you do do it. Don't go along the road trying to keep yourself a nice separation distance and as soon as the tail end of another lorry has passed you flash him in and then you're like this.... Consider delaying the flash till he's gone by a bit further or whatever the case may be. And there's no doubt about it the flashing of the lights is is a beneficial thing. Especially I mean... you're in the nearside And you've got limiters fitted now have you all of you?
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] You're in the nearside lane and you're going uphill and er you're trunking away quite nicely, you see a guy coming down in the fast lane, down the hill getting a bit of a roll on, fully laden, and he gets halfway up the hill, he runs out of steam and he's looking for a hole to get into.... So as a l fellow lorry driver you would probably think Well I'll... ease off, and when you think you've got a gap there... you give him a flash, Okay mate, you can come in now. Now he he's quite erm... receptive of that isn't he? He's quite [LAUGHTER] pleased to think that [] someone's given him a hole to get into. So that's nothing wrong, I mean that's fine. But just consider... as I say, when you flash people, that you've got to maintain the separation distance. Now th there's two things we want the separation distance for, and one of them, as you say, is time to... react
[speaker001:] React.
[Mike:] and to stop. What's the other... reason we want er a nice separation distance between ourselves and the vehicle in front for? Probably even more important to some extent.
[speaker001:] So as you can see.
[Mike:] So that you can see.... Obviously when you're driving along the road the observation y wants to be up the road as far as it possibly can be. And er therefore... if you can see mile, half a mile,... quarter of a mile up the road, you can see other vehicles slowing down, brake lights coming on. You don't need the brake lights of the guy in front of you to tell that he's gonna stop, you've anticipated that in a minute this guy's gonna stop so you you're already... er braking and slowing down. Now if you just pull in a little bit too close, it's a natural reaction of the body to direct the eyes at the vehicle which is going to cause you the danger.... And even though you may physically be able to see up the road your eyes won't be looking there. And then So now you're travelling a little bit too close, your eyes are glued on the back of the vehicle in front, what's the sort of feeling you... get? A little bit tensed up?... And i you're a bit on edge? And yet people you see them, lorry drivers and car drivers, but lorry drivers themselves, they're happy to go along the road at fifty sixty miles an hour with such a short distance between themselves and the vehicle in front. And the thing is... when these sort of trailers and boxes like you've got on there, you just can't see.... And people are quite happy to do that, and there's te the the the stress and the the tension must build up inside. And er as probably er you gathered Stan and I are both ex-policemen in relation to erm... to... er our our background and er I think I said yesterday to the er some of the guys as well, one of the things that lorry drivers and policemen do have very much in common is that we have... pr probably one the shortest erm pension lives of [LAUGHTER] most professions.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[Mike:] And it's because of the tensions, the adrelion, and [thumping chest] the old bloody heart keep going. And as it t as er as you get on in later life, you know it tells on you. So let's sort of think about attitude, keep back, keep ourselves safe.... You're a lot less stressful,... you get to the end of your journey... a lot fresher. You can take a journey of three hundred miles if you like. One guy's a bit of a teararse. Pushing on, pushing on. The other guy takes his time.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] The difference in the overall running time will be negligible.... All the guy who's pushing on has done is got from one holdup to the next holdup quicker than the next feller. I think that's fair to say that, do you not? One guy's got there thinking [mimicking] Cor! Let's go and have a fag I []... need something I've worn out, had a hard day's work. The other guy will rea really get out of his cab and think Well well we've got here now, go and have a cup of tea.... All goes over his head. Do you think there's any value in that? Just like to show you a couple of videos now. We're talking about attitude. Now th the first one is erm... What is the first one Stan?
[Stan:] ....
[Mike:] This is er...
[Stan:] .
[Mike:] a personal carrier. Oh no. The first one is a bloke wants to overtake. Lorry in front, car in front of him, and he's number three. And he's so desperate to overtake. And the position he goes at. You could be a lorry coming the other way.... Again it's attitude. You see the lorry up the front? You see the one just pulling out? Now that was... Now look at the vehicles coming the other way and there's a car in front of the opposing lorry.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[Stan:] What a plonker.
[Mike:] Now he went completely blind didn't he?
[speaker001:] That lorry braked as well.... The one coming the other way.
[Mike:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] . I think he's passing two. I think he's passing them both on the same time.
[Mike:] Mm.
[speaker001:] . Three of them. .
[Mike:] Look at this. Now this is a van,... load it's a it's a personnel carrier. A load of schoolchildren going on a day out. Now he starts to overtake, and you'll see there's a sou sign on the left, a roundabout sign they're approaching. He's go no hole to get into... and pr looks there the person not letting him in. So he stays out... to the centre. So again he's approaching the roundabout and he wants to go straight on, so he's completely in the wrong position. And what does he gain? Why didn't he just stay where he was behind the vehi Everyone else was taking their time. Now watch as he goes round the roundabout....
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Now he's on his way now, yes let's get through here, we can't hang about here, let's get through and away.
[speaker001:] ....
[Mike:] Now as he comes out of the roundabout he starts overtaking down the offside of those vehicles. Which throws him He's got no view there has he? No view whatsoever. And as you'll see in a moment he's completely on the wrong side of the road. Now what if something had been coming the other way? Another lorry?... Agai overtook completely blind. Attitude? It's gotta be hasn't it really?
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mike:] Just an aggressive pushing attitude. Now you'll see the speed in the bottom left-hand corner. Now this guy is er out for a little afternoon run on his motorbike.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. .
[Mike:] Now the thing is, you'll see in a moment there'some lorries. You'll see some lorries up the top, one of the being an N F T lorry. I think you might find one of the lorries is overtaking the other one.... And er he's being followed by an unmarked police car. And you can see What have got up to? Oh we're just just getting into four gear now I think. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Now there're the lorries, and the see the N F T just up there going round the bend.
[speaker001:] must be going. .
[Mike:] No that's a policeman. His hands er s he's a bit worried. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. .
[Mike:] Now he he's gotta find somewhere to go so where's the only p place that's clear? The hard shoulder.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] Now as he comes in front of that lorry back onto the carriageway, if the one that was over taking suddenly decides to pull back in his mate having flashed him, the value of a nearside mirror? Mind you, you'd have to be quick wouldn't you? Cos he'd be [speed sound]. Look and he's gone, up through there.
[speaker001:] ....
[Mike:] Now er
[Stan:] See all the flashing lights of the vehicles there, they're they're so incensed they're flashing their lights all over the shop at him... er as he goes
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Stan:] through. But he actually went through between... those two goods vehicles. Came up and shot in and then went round.
[speaker001:] . And, additionally, there's an intersection there. You know an exit. Mm.
[Mike:] Now you s there's a situation where that was attitude absolutely stupid. The num amount of vehicles which were around. Now this one is speed in itself. Not the erm complication of of vehicles to the extent we saw with the motorcycle film just now, but this is erm again The the police car is staying well back cos he's following this vehicle you can see a hundred and... thirteen, well the speed's gets up to about a hundred and forty in a moment as you'll see.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] It's a s a straightforward er an M R Two.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] This is a S er Opal Senator or a Vauxhall Carlton with a Senator engine. And he's following er a Toyota M R Two. And er th th this guy
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] has got his nine-year-old son in the car and he's showing his son how fast his new car's gonna go.... Still not making a lot of impression on [LAUGHTER] this guy [].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].... Where is it?
[Mike:] H h he's just he's right in the distance. In fact the camera can't quite pick him out. As I say the
[speaker001:] Now what was he going at that speed for?
[Mike:] Just to show his son how fast his new car's gonna go.
[speaker001:] Er but how long was he doing it for?
[Mike:] Well look er Th this was more or
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] less shows you the whole of the chase.
[Stan:] But th that's actually they followed him for about ten miles....
[speaker001:] So he's done that for five minutes there....
[Mike:] So anyway we... I've got it here somewhere.... So er just a just a few instances o of of actual film of things which happen on the road which depict... attitude.... Any comments on what we've got there? Now they're sort of things that you've probably seen yourself... quite frequently I would think. So the other The main thing we're thinking about then, with the defensive driving technique, one of the most important things is attitude. So naturally we'll be looking [LAUGHTER] to see the attitude of a guy when we're sitting there [].
[Stan:] ....
[Mike:] That's it, thanks. What was that one?
[Stan:] [cough] That's the erm... car in the
[Mike:] A and the
[Stan:] double white lines system, We'll show you this one in a minute, and coming the other way you will see there's an overtake. And th I'm sure every one of you have been in that situation where somebody's suddenly popped out and committed themself to an overtake and they've got nowhere to go at all. And that's a prime example of it. And you see the accident with the car driver when the brakes come on. But watch... where the brakes come on. In other words, if the bloke hadn't have got back there would've been a f a total impact. Cos he wou his reaction time, understandably, cos he wasn't expecting it,ce [clapping] happened like that and hi his reaction time was too slow to compensate for the stupidity of the bloke coming the other way. But you'll you'll all recognize the situation.
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] ... [cough] After this one it runs into one with a car er car transporter. The attitude of a lorry driver which you can have a look at.
[Stan:] Here he comes look. Watch the bloke coming up there. Now here he is, look, see? Now see how the brake lights?
[speaker001:] Ooh.
[Stan:] Now
[speaker001:] phew!
[Stan:] the brake lights are that there. far too late, cos he he didn't couldn't And I'm not criticizing
[Mike:] See the... van dri [LAUGHTER]
[Stan:] the fact just a a question of... the bloke didn't have time. You know, didn't have the time
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Stan:] to react.
[Mike:] Completely overtaking against th o over the double white line... in all that traffic. There er here's a situation with this er er rather aggressive attitude of a car transporter driver. Now he's overtaking because he can't see but nevertheless Look at the gap there. The slightest movement with those
[speaker001:] .
[Mike:] three lorries and there's a real shitcart isn't there? What's the safety margins there?
[Stan:] Think of the turbulence between those vehicles there, you know the air displacement as they pass.
[Mike:] It's thirty seven miles an hour. Not fast, but it's fast enough for that sort of... distance between each oth
[speaker001:] I bet shitting themselves. [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]. [LAUGHTER] [].
[Stan:] He found out what colour adrenalin was when he got home.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER].
[Mike:] Now you'll see him in a moment, he this guy driving he wants to go off... on a slip road. And it's one of those slip roads where you off and other people join... at the same place. But he's not g
[speaker001:] Cumbernauld....
[Mike:] He's not intere Er yeah, Cumbernauld's a typical example of this.
[speaker001:] Aye.
[Mike:] But he's not g no give and take with this guy, he's just taking advantage of his size. Er and he's going You watch in moment the way he S see there's the one trying to come out, look. Look. And he got straight in front there.... There now watch and see the how he misses the central reservation, those bollards. Now if that car had pushed on and didn't brake when he did, that driver would either have taken car out or the keep left bollards wouldn't he? His speed was such he didn't approach it at a speed where he could erm... er l lay off and er let something happen.... So they're just examples of attitude gents, which And it's attitude which causes the problems. If you have a more considerate attitude... one where you're going to sort of give way to people, show a little bit more consideration to other road users, I think you'd find that it's gonna... it pays off.... [shuffling in background] Right very briefly, we've been here a little while now, is erm we're just gonna a little talk about the other aspects of what we call a defensive driving... technique. Have we got something on there Stan?
[Stan:] No that's the fog one.
[Mike:] The erm?
[Stan:] Fog.
[Mike:] Yeah thanks. We'll show that in a minute.
[Stan:] Yeah.
[Mike:] So what a el else are we gonna to be looking for? When we're talking about defensive driving, attitude plays a big part. The other thing we're looking at of course is your technique as a driver. Now the technique that you employ driving your vehicle is divided into two parts. How you control the vehicle... and how you read the road ahead. Now controlwise, we can look at various things, and I think last year we had various discussions on different things, but, naturally, you're looking for smooth, positive control of the vehicle. A nice balance between clutch and throttle. Now I know that now you've got or two erm splitter boxes, yes? And clutches not necessarily all the time? But nevertheless, a nice balance can be obtained by giving that... split time to get in. If you rush it too much you can very often find you're in a false neutral can't you or whatever the case may be? Then you've got to start again to try and get it. Invariably it's done through bad timing or trying to rush it. Not always. It does a little bit of technique to get used to these things, I ag I agree. But So we're looking for a nice balance between clutch and throttle, that you're not being jerked and the not clutch is not bloody flying every time that you take let your foot to engage a gear.... Nice balance of steering. The steering should always be smooth, progressive, and accurate. It's gonna get your vehicle where it wants to go. Now steering on its own can very often be complicated by other aspects such as your correct speed for the situation. Co that can affect your steering can't it? If you're sort of travelling a bit too fast, you've gotta rush your steering, things might not be right. But your er basic style of steering, and naturally we come from a training establishment, we think and we practise the push-pull method. We think that is... the best method. Because it's the most accurate, it's the smoothest and you're always in a position to respond should you want more or less steering. If you go over the top, underneath or palm, you are not.... Er plus the fact your hands could slip off the wheel or or whatever. So we er advocate this. But we we s we know that people have their own styles. You might have been driving for years by going over the top of the wheel as a lot of lorry drivers do. So although we think that our method is best, we fully realize that you've got styles, things th which you've built up over many years. And providing your steering is smooth,... positive and accurate,... then we accept it. It's no real problem. So we realize we're not gonna be here to change the habits that have built up over a lifetime. You can't change habits like that... b in two or three hours. But if there was an aspect of your steering like erm [tape change]