[Arnold Bower:] Well we'll begin the Parish Council er er with apologies.
[Pat Beeyer:] We have apologies from m John Holmes.
[John Watts:] And apologies from Mrs Armstrong, the other District Councillor.
[Arnold Bower:] Have you got the minutes of the previous meeting?... Are you happy that I sign these er Mr
[Kevin Topham:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] Good. Thank you. And have you any matters arising, from these minutes? Er I should say that er we will be discussing Four Lane, er and any planning appli erm, things.
[Kevin Topham:] I attended the last charity meeting on the thirtieth of November.
[Arnold Bower:] Thank you.
[Kevin Topham:] Erm.
[Arnold Bower:] The thirtieth of November?
[Kevin Topham:] Yeah. I have here a copy of the committee which was formed that night, and also a copy of the minutes, I'll give each Councillor one, and then they can read it at their leisure, instead of me taking up the whole meeting.
[Arnold Bower:] Thank you.
[Kevin Topham:] Okay?
[Arnold Bower:] Do you want to give them now or do it at the end?
[Kevin Topham:] Give them now if you like.
[Arnold Bower:] Can I just say that in getting them, I think erm the er Lands Charity trustees are not actually obliged to report to us, and Kevin's doing this as a matter of sort of courtesy really, because we appointed him, erm but erm erm I think it's a subject that could well be called on for one of these sort of regular, little, important at the A G M, erm
[Pat Beeyer:] It could be one of those.
[Arnold Bower:] erm to look over the year, and.
[Pat Beeyer:] any are those?
[Irene Young:] No, just one, one of each.
[Arnold Bower:] One for each.
[Kevin Topham:] There's a free sheet.
[Irene Young:] Two sheets.
[Arnold Bower:] Thank you. And I gather there will be another meeting shortly.
[Kevin Topham:] The first of February.
[Arnold Bower:] Good evening.
[Dale Ross:] Dale Ross of Land Development.
[Arnold Bower:] Ah, good evening, come in, we've er, we've only just started on the Parish Council, so er
[Dale Ross:] I can't
[Arnold Bower:] Well er,yo as a member of the public you will be invited to speak, you know where I ask you to come in, thank you. Erm, can we have the Clerk's report?
[John Watts:] Could I just mention before it goes by
[Arnold Bower:] No.
[John Watts:] the quiz is on the second of February, Wednesday, if anyone here is interested in coming they only had about two people attend from this village.
[Arnold Bower:] The second of February?
[Pat Beeyer:] I didn't hear what.
[John Watts:] Last time we had it, and two from Haylands, so er, tea and biscuits will be provided, we're playing it may be the best
[Arnold Bower:] Quiz.
[Pat Beeyer:] Quiz.
[John Watts:] and this time we hope it'll be different, so erm
[Dale Ross:] Where is it happening?
[John Watts:] It's here.
[Dale Ross:] Erm, here.
[Pat Beeyer:] Here?
[John Watts:] Eight O'clock, second of February,
[Dale Ross:] In the chapel there?
[John Watts:] Yes, I think we may be using the, because the opposing team always bring a lot of people and we never have any supporters, somehow, so erm, er we're very pleased if people who sort of spread that about a bit.
[Irene Young:] Erm, after the last meeting, erm I wrote to Mr Dicks of Newton Sherwood about the er electoral role they er draft one with one or two amendments, I also wrote back to the Nottinghamshire valuation tribunal, who asked us for er maps and centres of our population which we couldn't supply, also wrote to the services, erm which will supply er Smiths erm bungalow on Poor Lane, informing them of our interest off Poor Lane, erm, and also to erm footpaths off this to Mr Jones about the same thing, because Poor Lane is public footpath, erm subsequently I spoke to him on the telephone and erm he advised us that erm they have an interest in it, erm, have received from Notts County Council a little booklet, which
[Pat Beeyer:] I think everybody's had that.
[Irene Young:] You've all had one? Right. [LAUGHTER] you've had one?
[speaker007:] I don't think so.
[Irene Young:] Parish Council Conference, so, which some people attended, on the eighth of November I received the minutes yesterday, erm, I don't know if anybody's interested, are you John?
[John Watts:] Yes, I was up there at that time.
[Irene Young:] One minute. Er, had a press release, er about the temporary closure of Graves Lane, which actually is just about, I think, finished now.
[Pat Beeyer:] Yes, it's done.
[Irene Young:] Yeah, that's right, erm, there is to be a public transport conference and at Edwinstowe on Wednesday the ninth of November, and there's erm
[Pat Beeyer:] February?
[Irene Young:] Sorry.
[speaker008:] [LAUGHTER]
[Arnold Bower:] You never get to them on time.
[Irene Young:] Ninth of February I'm not, a governors meeting.
[Pat Beeyer:] You've got a governors meeting, yeah.
[Irene Young:] I'll pass round the agenda, and then you can pass it round when we've had a look, er County Link, just information from Notts County Council, erm who'd like to see? Highways Department, with it's usual highways briefing, that comes every month, erm a pamphlet or a booklet about highways in winter, we ought to put around.... Also had further letter from Notts County Council about Nottinghamshire Minerals local plan, asking us again if we have any representations to make, I think it was decided at a previous meeting that we did not, erm Colin Williamson, production of development and planning at Newton and Sherwood District Council, it's proposal to run seminars for Parish Councils on planning policies, law and procedures, and we would like to know erm whether erm we would be interested in attending, and how many people would wish, he he has earmarked temporarily twenty eighth of March, which is a Monday, as a possible date at town hall, so if er if you think that would be something that you would be erm interested in going to, the topics erm are really I think things that came up at the Parish Council's conference, the questions about planning, about the rules, and the policies, and the procedures etcetera, the erm, and visitors were talking last thing for sixth of December for five minutes, and the discussion for half an hour to three quarters, commencing at half past seven, so er if anyone's interested in attending that? Are you interested John? This guy wants some numbers, some ideas.
[John Watts:] Well, yes, probably, because I had the job of proposing that at the
[Irene Young:] Oh, right.
[Anne Tyler:] I wouldn't mind going.
[Irene Young:] Would you like to go Anne, yeah, what about you Arnold?
[Arnold Bower:] I'd have thought those two would be enough.
[Irene Young:] Well, anybody can go, I mean it's just, you know, I'll say two then
[Arnold Bower:] I'd be interested, yes, yes.
[Irene Young:] Mm.
[Arnold Bower:] Put those two then.
[Irene Young:] Right, okay.
[Pat Beeyer:] That's a Monday, is it?
[Irene Young:] That's a Monday at the moment, Monday the twenty eighth, that's Anne and John.
[Arnold Bower:] Just as many people, they can manage with that in.
[John Watts:] Is it at Kelham Hall, Eileen?
[Irene Young:] Yeah, seven thirty, thought it would be.
[Pat Beeyer:] What's it called?
[Irene Young:] Erm, well it's just a seminar about planning at the moment, I shall get further information about it on nearer the time, erm, a change in who would pay our, or get our VAT repayment claim from, doesn't change an address basically, and er a request from Sam Stewart, whose erm a Counc, er a County Councillor, er something which I really can't actually erm help him with, he wants to know the whole of our Parish Council meetings date for nineteen ninety four, but I mean this is something we fix as we go along, so I really don't think that I can help him by that, and I'm sending him that, erm
[Arnold Bower:] Can I ask if they, if he says er why he wants to know this, people intend to come, or?
[Irene Young:] I don't know.
[speaker007:] Could I help please Chairman, Sam Stewart is the County Councillor that covers the South ward that
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[speaker007:] I do, but for the County Council
[Irene Young:] Mm.
[speaker007:] and if you've got any problems with highways at, I mean, a lot of the things you discuss are County Council matters
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, they
[speaker008:] In fact I've, I've
[speaker007:] highways and that sort of thing, and he does go to Farnsfield, and he does go to Oxford and back, and really all you need do is just send him, you needn't send him the minutes here, you just send him the notice of the meeting
[Irene Young:] Mm.
[speaker007:] his address,i i you've got his address presumably?
[Irene Young:] Oh yes, but he wants them for the whole of the year you see, which is impossible.
[speaker007:] Yeah, well tell him you'll put him in his diary, I I would have thought if you'd just sent him the notes to each meeting he would come if he would, if he could, and if he can't, he can't.
[Irene Young:] Well I think that's a good idea if we have something with that nature.
[Arnold Bower:] Well, are are you happy that he circulized over time, I mean, we can easily do that.
[Irene Young:] I'm not particularly, because I'm not
[Arnold Bower:] Well no, I'm asking you if what, would you like us to let the County Council know when our meetings our?
[Pat Beeyer:] Well, it would be
[Arnold Bower:] I think it's said it, if there's anything on pertaining to the County Council, like highway matters, then it could be useful, but I mean if it just, there's no point in him sitting here to discuss planning applications, because that enquiry's
[speaker008:] [cough]
[Arnold Bower:] there's the District Council as well.
[speaker007:] I I I do differ with that in some respects, in that er until we've arranged the agenda we're not always sure whether there will be specifically highway matters, er and er I must confess, although not on the agenda very often, highway matters are things that that that that do get commented on, er but er none the less, it's just the principle, I mean er it's a bit difficult to start saying, well do we send it because we have particular things, er or or
[Anne Tyler:] What's the problem with sending one in each time?
[speaker007:] Well this is what I'm asking, I mean do you want one sent over Arnold?
[Arnold Bower:] Well he is as entitled to come as anybody else
[Pat Beeyer:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] provided he knows when it is, I mean, and those who aren't going to get a County Council for much longer may as well er
[John Watts:] Well, having said that there is a notice board that he can look at, you know?
[Irene Young:] Well, I mean I take the view that if we are going to erm have something on the agenda, I can telephone his secretary, I can write to him, anytime, which I'm quite willing to do, I cannot see the point in sending things through the post at twenty five P a time when we shall never see the man, and if he comes here
[speaker008:] [cough]
[Pat Beeyer:] But surely this is just one sheet with the agenda on.
[Irene Young:] Mm.
[Pat Beeyer:] It wouldn't warrant, you know, send it second class weight.
[Irene Young:] [LAUGHTER]
[John Watts:] Well I mean I agree, it still costs twenty five P
[Pat Beeyer:] Not if you send it second class.
[Arnold Bower:] You won't see much of him, because
[Irene Young:] No, that's right.
[Arnold Bower:] he doesn't have very much time.
[Irene Young:] He's a very busy man.
[Arnold Bower:] As Mr Watt says, the County Council are on their way out.
[Pat Beeyer:] Peter, are you sure?
[speaker007:] Wo would you like to try it for the next year, or few meetings?
[Arnold Bower:] Well, can I propose we try it for the next three meetings, and
[Pat Beeyer:] Three meetings, okay.
[Arnold Bower:] see if something that could be useful, or it could not, you never know.
[speaker007:] Are you happy with that?
[Irene Young:] Yes, yes.
[speaker007:] Okay then.
[Arnold Bower:] Has the fella said when he left the note,
[Anne Tyler:] I can't see why not.
[Arnold Bower:] closing time, if everyone don't want them, if you want them you can't get them.
[speaker008:] [LAUGHTER]
[Anne Tyler:] That's right, thought so.
[Arnold Bower:] Ian, er have we decided whose going to this er
[Irene Young:] To the erm meeting
[Arnold Bower:] The meeting on
[Irene Young:] yes, this one.
[Arnold Bower:] transport.
[Irene Young:] transport. Anybody? It's on the erm the ninth of February.
[Anne Tyler:] What day is that? That's a whole day one isn't it?
[Irene Young:] Er, Wednesday.
[Anne Tyler:] That's a whole day.
[Irene Young:] Yeah, it is actually, that's the drawback, it's the whole day, and most people are working, aren't they?
[Anne Tyler:] Can I think about that one?
[Irene Young:] Yeah, okay.
[Pat Beeyer:] On the what date?
[Irene Young:] Well look, I'll leave you with this, and if you, if you want to go post that.
[Arnold Bower:] Sign it in, that okay.
[Anne Tyler:] Does anyone else want to?
[Irene Young:] No.
[Arnold Bower:] Er, well, you
[Anne Tyler:] On my own?
[Arnold Bower:] You keep looking [LAUGHTER]
[Anne Tyler:] [LAUGHTER] Think I might know about it do you?
[Arnold Bower:] Well, I, I, I mean I've been to one, to a meeting, they had in Manchester a few years ago, Irene's been to some.
[Irene Young:] I've been to.
[Pat Beeyer:] Mm.
[Arnold Bower:] Yeah.
[Pat Beeyer:] That's right.
[Arnold Bower:] But er, all day, I agree is a rather a
[Anne Tyler:] Big commitment.
[Arnold Bower:] Well, we'll have a look at it.
[Anne Tyler:] Especially if nobodies with me [LAUGHTER].
[Arnold Bower:] Well, I'll see what I can help you out, I'll try.
[Irene Young:] A circular letter, erm the landscaping company asking if we have any works that we need doing, I don't think we do erm hedging and lawn cutting and everything.
[Arnold Bower:] C c, are they a private company
[Irene Young:] Yeah.
[Arnold Bower:] or are they part of the
[Irene Young:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] County Council department.
[Irene Young:] No just private people trying to get work. Erm Newark and Sherwood District Council, er er instigating a customer comments procedure, erm whereby you can write or ring or [cough] anything at all that you think would improve their services, or anything suitable or anything like that, and there are details about it there, er with erm a flow chart, erm what the action that will be taken if their clients have a look at that, one of them's just to receive public comments about their performance, I suppose it's to do with er
[Arnold Bower:] can you comment on that, Phil? Anything from you Mr Curtis?
[speaker008:] Well not really Mr Chairman... [changing batteries in walkman]
[Arnold Bower:] planning applications and er er items relating to Poor Lane, er and also the traffic on Station Road later on, er I think it's rather complicated to talk about all of these at at one go, because I know er different members of the public have come for different reasons [cough] and perhaps, for the moment, I'll not ask for any comments about Mr Smith's proposals on Poor Lane, er nor er comments about Station Road, er but I will ask you if you want to refer to planning applications, er we have three planning applications, one is to extend the car park behind the pub, one is for a change of plan to one of the houses on the development adjacent to us, er and the third one is er er the plans submitted by Grant Development at Thorney, erm, I suspect most comments will be about the last, er perhaps I should ask first if anybody wants to make any comments about proposals behind the reindeer in, or at Chapel cottage site, does anybody, er in the public want to mention those erm, well we will go on to the one at Thorney then, and you're Mr Walker?
[Derek Walker:] I'm Derek Walker, Michael Diffin.
[Arnold Bower:] And?
[speaker008:] Michael Diffin.
[Arnold Bower:] Michael?
[speaker008:] Diffin. [spelling] D I F F I N [].
[Arnold Bower:] Diffin? Erm, have come from Grant Development erm, I think the views er of people who live in the village will be pretty forcefully er put, and and I believe, can I ask with the exception of Mr Bust, and possibly Mr Pool, have you er three gentleman seen the plans to which we are referring? I have. Are you Mr. They've both seen. Yes, but I mean I know you've er lived in the area, er so erm, perhaps I should invite Mr Walker or Mr Diffin to to make a if you look, wish to bear in mind that we have seen the plans
[speaker008:] Yeah.
[Arnold Bower:] er we can clear the table if you wish to point anything out to us, erm, or if you prefer to er er to wait and hear what Can I er take the opportunity to clear up some technical sort of er technical points to do with the plans, however, probably inadvertent, the first one, erm in the er letter copy of the letter that you sent to the er Planning Authority, erm and you mentioned one plan being erm handed, it doesn't say, actually it didn't specify which house or which is the proper way it should be handled, but in the small plan showing the site, and the position of the houses, the attached er garage on the house on plot number two, that's the one erm you notice the bridge, this end one, is shown on the right, but in the detailed plan of the house it's shown on the left, now
[Derek Walker:] Now it's.
[Arnold Bower:] It should be on the left.
[Derek Walker:] Hang on.
[Arnold Bower:] We assume it's the one on the right, there.
[speaker008:] It's to be on the right, the layout plan Mr Bradford is correct, the house type is just purely the elevation the
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[speaker008:] whole thing will be handed single storey garage is alongside each individual house.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, yes, well that well that's is that is that what other people have understood?
[speaker008:] So the garage, at, whoever the front the garage will be on the right, yes.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] Yeah.
[Arnold Bower:] Adjacent to the existing terraced house.
[Derek Walker:] Yes, so in fact the the plan that of the house is a kind of a like a mirror image, in fact what
[Arnold Bower:] True.
[Derek Walker:] a er, yeah.
[Arnold Bower:] And then there's into the open plan as well.. And there will be in fact a right into the.
[John Watts:] Oh is it?
[Arnold Bower:] I believe when we You just actually give him the distance.
[Derek Walker:] There's at least a metre.
[speaker008:] At least a metre yes.
[Derek Walker:] The footpath round the garage.
[Irene Young:] Yeah.
[Arnold Bower:] And the other thing I was going to ask was you that you've appealed on the planning application.
[Derek Walker:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] Erm
[Derek Walker:] Which often takes some time.
[Arnold Bower:] If you're successful on this er current application, you won't, but erm supposing this application were to be turned down by the planning authority, er that you were successful upon the appeal on the first one you would actually proceed according to the plan that was submitted at the first one.
[speaker008:] At the moment.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] Right is there anything er er or would you like to just listen to what people have got
[speaker008:] Well y yes, by all means yes, sounds appropriate.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes. Chairman can ask through you whether Yes, Mr. are departments will be given an opportunity of explaining precisely what their development does for the village? Er they may not be able to answer that precisely, Mr Bradford. Well I but er we can go and ask them, yes. I mean, okay, what have they If you feel that er, do you feel it's an asset to the village? What you're
[Derek Walker:] I personally feel it's better than what's there now at the moment, it's also positioned on a a site which is now zoned for housing anyway in the district plan, erm it is providing true good quality houses in the area, we we personally feel that it's better than what's being proposed alongside here. We feel it would be better for the village.
[Pat Beeyer:] You can't see what you, what's there now though, but you will see the new ones.
[John Watts:] No, I think he's referring to Chapel, you're referring
[Derek Walker:] Yes.
[John Watts:] to these three here?
[Derek Walker:] These three along here.
[Pat Beeyer:] Oh, these three here, I know, mm.
[Derek Walker:] I mean if anybody wan wants to see the quality, I would er plo plots one and two are plots two and one at er Fiskerton, er Ben Lochan, the same.
[John Watts:] You have got some at Morton?
[speaker008:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] Yes, and er you have to hurry to see plot two because if people move in late on Tuesday, but erm we can see that monitor development, it er we are we are a quality builder, we're not a clown.
[Arnold Bower:] They'll, they'll be easier to find in Morton if we
[speaker008:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] went down.
[speaker008:] Straight opposite the pub, yeah.
[Arnold Bower:] Be alright, wouldn't it?
[speaker008:] Thornton inn.
[Arnold Bower:] Is there anything else Mr Bradford, about er
[speaker008:] Well, they, they may be quality builders, Mr Chairman, but I'm not sure that it happen, has any relevance to this discussion, we're talking about a planning application.
[Arnold Bower:] Oh yes, yes, but you just asked what benefit they thought they brought to the village.
[speaker008:] The only benefits that seem to have been suggested is that their proposals are better than what's there at the moment, er Grant Developments must be aware that there is a, an approval, a current planning approval for the development of that site, which is a development to retain the existing bungalow and develop the existing bungalow, and to build a house in the rear.
[Arnold Bower:] I, I think to be er, I think it is more correct to say that there was an outline planning application for an additional dwelling on that site, er in addition to the bungalow that is there, and I I think that is the situation, and all subsequent planning applications have been refused.
[Derek Walker:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] Er, that that is slightly different in that an outline planning consent er is not is is precisely what it says, it is not a detail of the type of dwelling that is going on it, but it, you're quite correct in that the planning precedent has been put, that that site is adequate for two dwellings, and and I don't think anybodies disputing that, er at least not so far. Is there anybody else er wants What I want to dispute, Mr Chairman, is the the type and the nature of dwellings which are being developed on the site. Er, no, er, oh yes, exactly, yes, yes. Erm, I mean I think if we're wishing to analyse the application, I I think we must consider what it doesn't do for the village, and I think there are a number of aspects that have to be considered, erm, first of all as a village, and I've heard in this very Parish Council that the reputed view made that there is a need for small village accommodation, this development certainly does not provide that, we've also expressed a view that it would be nice to retain the existing bungalow, because that is small village accommodation, and although it only has a very limited history, again it would be nice to retain it as an integral part of the village. The application does nothing to retain the existing trees on the site, it was a, it is, a mature garden with some mature trees, and all those trees are to be removed, it certainly doesn't do anything to retain the rural character of the na of the village, and certainly doesn't enhance the character of the adjoining small er rural cottages,i in fact it would be, it could be argued that it damages the rural environment, because the development is such that it is more suited for an urban development, almost a city centre, because the comment has been made that there is only about a metre between the dwellings and indeed there is only a metre between the dwellings and the adjoining boundaries, surely there is a need for screening, it is in a in a very very prominent position, it can be seen clearly as you enter the village from the Farnsfield area, the present proposal doesn't provide sufficient room for screening, and and like the screen which is adjacent to this building, which are set well back from the road, and provide an opportunity for screening the single access to the site and the fact that the frontage to these two properties is completely taken up with garaging and with vehicle access doesn't even provide an opportunity to screen. I can't say that er their intention, and I think Mr Grant, Mr Diffin will er confirm, that t to retain or probably replant the existing external hedge to the property
[Derek Walker:] Well, no we we intend intend all of this.
[Arnold Bower:] Er and er yes, in in as far as where the excess, access isn't
[Derek Walker:] Yes
[Arnold Bower:] needed.
[Derek Walker:] that's right.
[speaker008:] There'll only be a small section of the hedge that would come down, just
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[speaker008:] to give access in.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] Is it the same access point?
[Derek Walker:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] The access they are accessing
[Pat Beeyer:] Is that an
[Arnold Bower:] between Braw Lane and Mr Lingard's.
[Derek Walker:] Exactly the same place.
[Arnold Bower:] That's right, yes. Chairman if you are, if you
[Pat Beeyer:] Goes out that one?
[Derek Walker:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] are at all familiar with that end of the village you will recognize that there are three points of access, one of which is Mr Lingard's, and as you quite rightly point out is the the bridle track among them. Er, er excuse me, there is no access from the bridle track, er and Mr Lingard's Onto the road?
[speaker008:] Onto the road.
[Arnold Bower:] er Mr Lingard's access was er given er by personal consent from Mr Lingard, so their access is directly onto the road. Yes, there will be three points of access onto the road, one from Mr Lingard's property, one from the development by Grant Construction, and another one from the bridle track.
[Derek Walker:] There will but
[Arnold Bower:] These are all Yes, yes, thank you, yes the external on the road Yes, I, I, I a very dangerous corner, I take your point respect in order to ensure that there is adequate visibility from a single point of access from this dual property, it will be necessary to remove a considerable amount of existing hedge to the front of that property, it's almost inevitable that it will have to come down, because it's necessary from the visib visibility display point of view, now that will mean that the whole of these properties are clearly visible from the road, and a major part of the present hedging will have to come down, in short this proposal doesn't do a great deal for the village, in fact as far as the residents of that end of the village are concerned it does a great deal of damage to the village, I Right. would suggest that the only reason for this application is one of profit, there has been no attempt to recognize or implement the views of the village in terms of the type of accommodation which is required, I would suspect that it's Grant Development's intention to develop this site and then walk away, and leave the villagers to suffer the consequences. Well thank you Mr Bradford. I was going to Grant Development have come here er because they are interested in our views, er I think as far as the access goes I take your point that visibility is required, but I would imagine that that the highways department will have stipulated what is required, as they have indeed for the development next door, er where the hedge, the present hedge is going to be er set back, erm I I can't tell you whether, what stipulation has been made, perhaps these two gentlemen
[John Watts:] I think, I think, I think on the er planning report when we went to the last planning committee when the refusal was made highways said the access was okay.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes
[Pat Beeyer:] As it is?
[John Watts:] As it is.
[Arnold Bower:] I believe it is, yes. Because in fact with the road being on the bend, cos, actual visibility
[speaker008:] It's on the other side of the bend.
[Arnold Bower:] is is seen but er
[Pat Beeyer:] Well they're expecting at least two cars.
[Arnold Bower:] It, it's, it's right that that this should be brought up anyway, Mr.
[Derek Walker:] I can confirm Chairman that the District Council of course consult the County Council on access to all applications
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, good.
[Derek Walker:] and the County Council didn't raise no objection.
[Arnold Bower:] Good. That may be so Chairman, but with these two four bedroom houses there could be another six to eight cars coming out of that entrance,
[John Watts:] Mm.
[Arnold Bower:] onto that bend
[John Watts:] Mm.
[Arnold Bower:] I was there forty years, right, I've seen every accident on that bend, I've had my house as a first aid post a dozen times, until we did something in this committee to sort that corner out Yes. and now we get more traffic on it
[Derek Walker:] Well it
[Arnold Bower:] I I don't agree with another half a dozen or eight cars coming out of that.
[Derek Walker:] Well there won't be that many cars off two houses, but I would also like to add
[Arnold Bower:] Well you're having double garages included.
[Pat Beeyer:] Yeah.
[Derek Walker:] There's al, already one at Poplington
[Arnold Bower:] Not a in building.
[Derek Walker:] There's already one at Poplington actually, just let me finish and you can make your point
[Arnold Bower:] Yeah, go on.
[Derek Walker:] you're talking also about extending the car park at the pub, just down the road, so you're going to be increasing traffic into that pub. Cars coming round that corner could hit a stationary vehicle.
[Arnold Bower:] Excuse me, we're on another subject, but I will put you in the clear
[Derek Walker:] I can get you an appointment on that.
[Arnold Bower:] I will put you in the clear on the car park at the pub, it's was originally it's going back to as as it originally was, it was the car park, and all they're doing now is reverting back to what it was ten years ago.
[Derek Walker:] Er, can I make a point? If the planning application, as the gentleman in in the rear says er went through with a cottage, and a house, he'd have exactly the same
[John Watts:] It did.
[Derek Walker:] er er traffic.
[Pat Beeyer:] No.
[Arnold Bower:] No. What you haven't
[Pat Beeyer:] Not with two houses, one cottage doesn't make the same amount.
[Derek Walker:] Well
[Arnold Bower:] If
[Derek Walker:] you're you're going, instead of six cars you're going to have four or five.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, I mean we're well
[Derek Walker:] I mean there's not going to be that much much different.
[Arnold Bower:] If they were smaller properties it is possible there would be some less traffic.
[Derek Walker:] It wouldn't be there, the house and the garage would get a four bedroomed house anyway.
[Pat Beeyer:] I mean they're family houses, aren't they?
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, yes.
[speaker008:] So the point Mr Walker's making is there's two two families in already At the cottage? in the bungalow.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] There's another house
[speaker008:] If that one remained and then another house built alongside, there would be still two houses.
[Derek Walker:] I don't see the, what I'm saying
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] is I don't see that the the excess er access problem has a problem holding up with the highways authority, as far as this enquiry's concerned.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes. I mean I I I
[Pat Beeyer:] It is if you live in the village.
[Arnold Bower:] I I I can see
[speaker008:] Sorry?
[Pat Beeyer:] It is if you live in the village.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] I I live in a village as well and I mean they, I've got the same
[Arnold Bower:] Well I, excuse me, I would ask you to come on that corner at five O'clock at night, and at half past eight, between half past eight and nine in the morning, and see what speed they all come round, alright?
[speaker008:] But, er er this this is a highways erm matter
[Arnold Bower:] No it's alright, it's alright to put these houses up and down Ca, can I just do that then, with, with, yes, excuse me Kevin, I think we we voiced that one, we can see there's, there a lot, will obviously be increased er er traffic, er from the site, er and it it's clear that that the bigger the houses the more likely there is we'd have increased traffic. Now whether this is significant, er obviously it's significant to people who live here er and who witness it, erm, er whether from a legal or highway point of view we aren't able to judge probably, er, does Mr Lingard or Mr Nun wish to show them
[Pat Beeyer:] Yes, I'd just like to emphasize the point of the last er refusal, which, I've got a copy here, would be over bearing, out of scale with the adjacent residential property, detrimental to the amenity of adjacent occupiers, and I see no, I know we're not talking about an appeal at this stage, we're talking about another application, I personally see no change whatsoever to the circumstances in which the last application was refused, these properties, totally out of proportion, and totally overpowering and overbearing for that entrance to the village
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] er, we have in the East end of the village, including the pub, the farm, and various other properties, a certain type of properties that elevation, a certain sympathetic er amenity, and these buildings, I I heard the word mentioned earlier, I live in the country, I could live in the town, it doesn't matter where I live, but these are not the sort of properties, in my opinion, that should be put on this particular site, er and they're they're totally, all our own elevations and plans of height, and they are totally and utterly out of proportion and out of scale with the present day entrance to the village, and whilst we're not talking totally and utterly about looks, if you come down into the village they are going to be totally over powering, particularly in the, in the actual, in this situation of no hedges and that kind of thing,
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] and they'd be a blot on the landscape to put it mildly,
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, that's it yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] and what I concern myself with now is that this sort of thing is becoming too obvious in the area, this kind of development, this kind of an infringement in villages, looking for, somebody's got to make a stand against it, er and I hope that we shall in this Parish Council
[Arnold Bower:] Thank you, yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] for the defeatist, totally out of keeping.
[Derek Walker:] Can I make a comment on that and that the these houses are and oh ev er we have been been into consultation with Newton Sherwood District Council, since we er since the the first application
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] most of the changes that have been made to those houses have been er erm at the request of Newton Sherwood District Council, they the the they lifted the room pitch, we had a lower one, they wanted a higher one, erm, and you know, erm, all all basically erm the the although they counted it as a change since application
[Arnold Bower:] Yeah
[Derek Walker:] and we have done everything that, everything they've requested.
[Arnold Bower:] Er, I mean, am I correct to
[John Watts:] that's the request of the planning officers
[Derek Walker:] Yes.
[John Watts:] Not the members
[speaker008:] Yes.
[John Watts:] because the members had not yet seen the site
[Derek Walker:] I'm sorry, the planning officer.
[John Watts:] Yes the planning officer
[Arnold Bower:] Perhaps that
[Derek Walker:] make a statement Mr Chairman, the planning officers last night would actually, I believe approve the application
[John Watts:] They recommended approval.
[Derek Walker:] unfortunately the planning committee in considering it turned it down
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] and I'm sorry, I have very little confidence in them and the opinion of the planning officers at at Newark District Council
[Arnold Bower:] I believe it's a different planning officer dealing with this application than from the last one, but er
[Derek Walker:] Well, all right, I haven't got tremendous amount of confidence in their opinions, but that's all
[Arnold Bower:] But er, I mean I believe er perhaps these gentlemen can put me right, that in fact the pla the present plans that have been put in are very similar to the original plans, before they were amended er in consultation with the
[Derek Walker:] Er, er, er, the first, yes.
[Arnold Bower:] with the officers.
[Derek Walker:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] Erm, and er I don't know who was responsible for this, whether it was Mr Bradford, or whether it was
[Derek Walker:] It was.
[Arnold Bower:] er, and whether these were the original, or were these the original ones, Mr Bradford? I can't see Chairman what drawing you're showing. that that Kevin's provided it have you?
[Kevin Topham:] It, it was off your drawing, yes. [cough] And I've just photostatted it, then it's
[Arnold Bower:] Er, which of course does show the relative height of the new houses, against
[Derek Walker:] I want to make the fact that these are in fact the wrong way round.
[Pat Beeyer:] We know.
[Irene Young:] Yeah, we know.
[Arnold Bower:] Well, well, I'm just
[Kevin Topham:] You just need some of the worst
[Arnold Bower:] I'm just referring to the to the
[Derek Walker:] if you think that's unreasonable, now, now, that that single storey is there
[Irene Young:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] move it that way.
[Arnold Bower:] But, but you see, this is what er I think, er It's too high. that, that, that, that, people are objecting to, it's the height.
[Kevin Topham:] They're objecting to the height.
[Arnold Bower:] You see.
[Derek Walker:] Er, er, er I hate, hate to argue
[Kevin Topham:] Now if you go for something reasonable, say a bungalow and a house, you'd have no problems.
[Arnold Bower:] Is Mr Walker saying, Chairman, that the District Council planning officers are asking for this higher roof, but
[Derek Walker:] Yes.
[John Watts:] Chairman, this is not unusual, the planners approach is that traditionally erm buildings in this area have erm pantile roofs, which require a steep pitch
[Arnold Bower:] Mm.
[John Watts:] that that can be seen from er the bungalow almost directly opposite, and er it's almost a traditional requirement that they ask for steep pitches.
[Arnold Bower:] Mm.
[speaker008:] I, I accept that there is a mixture of houses at this end of the village.
[Arnold Bower:] The whole point is, Chairman, the planning officers, both at the site inspection and when it was discussed er er er they were under no misapprehension that it was the height of the building which had been objected to actually.
[Derek Walker:] Yes, that's right, yes.
[John Watts:] I mean that was made abundantly clear by Mr Topham, who represented the Parish Council at the site meeting,whe when er one of the senior planning officers was present, so it's an absolute nonsense if they've gone and encouraged the developers to go for an even higher roof line.
[Arnold Bower:] Well, I, I, I, only have er comments. Can I just mention that the reason why some of the older properties in this village has steeper pitched roofs is not because they're pantiled now, because originally they were erm, thatched, and the thatch needs a very steep pitch and particularly when there's a erm a gable end higher than the pantiles, it's where there was a thatched roof originally, but most of the older properties in this village are only one room wide, so you can't get a very big roof on, no matter how steep it is, the proposed houses here are in fact virtually sort of two rooms wide aren't they, so that means they are wide at the eves, I I would personally have thought that erm they could have been pitched a bit less. Er, Mr Lingard, do you want to say anything?
[Pat Beeyer:] I, I always have mildly
[speaker008:] [cough]
[Pat Beeyer:] you know, below the shadow of both the next two properties, we shall, we shall, you know, just have a brick wall, and if they they just shifted the garage to one end and as far as I'm concerned it's an excuse for them to put up the power, that is,
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] you know, the houses that have just got one wall and a little, or a garage which is higher than just about as high as I think
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] Can I just
[Arnold Bower:] Well of course they are behind the line of your house, I mean but even so it's sort of, erm Can I ask the applicants, please, is a, if the the location, the actual siting of the present houses, is any further erm away from the road and the originally proposed
[John Watts:] Well have you got a copy of the plan then?
[speaker008:] Yeah we have, yes.
[Derek Walker:] If you look at the plan a minute and I'll show you on the plan.
[speaker008:] I, I can't remember the original plan.
[Pat Beeyer:] Where are they going to put the drains in?
[John Watts:] There's a sewer.
[Pat Beeyer:] Where?
[John Watts:] In the road.
[Pat Beeyer:] What, between the houses?
[John Watts:] I had the impression
[speaker008:] a little bit.
[Pat Beeyer:] Isn't that going to come out and join that one from Micklethorpe Lane?
[John Watts:] Oh no, no no, no no, no no.
[Pat Beeyer:] From the plans that I've seen there's no change from what they originally planned
[Arnold Bower:] You're correct. You're actually right Mr Lingard
[Kevin Topham:] you know
[Derek Walker:] you then have the terraced cottage on the site there,
[Pat Beeyer:] Yes.
[Derek Walker:] you then have a hedge and there's a metre or a metre and a half that way, then you've got the single trees
[Pat Beeyer:] I mean I've stood on our our bridge and looked down.
[speaker008:] Yes. Er, this I I should get.
[Arnold Bower:] They'd be very domineering about it, wouldn't they, really?
[speaker008:] ...
[Arnold Bower:] [LAUGHTER] Exactly, we got used to them haven't we. []
[speaker008:] ...
[Pat Beeyer:] It's the angle of the road, isn't it? That's it.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes you do, you look right at it.
[Pat Beeyer:] But surely the size of that house, you've probably got people with at least two, if not three cars probably.
[Arnold Bower:] Well it it's true isn't it?
[Pat Beeyer:] You've got a small Renault,.
[John Watts:] And has that changed at all?
[Derek Walker:] That one's the same.
[John Watts:] That one's the same. Yes. So it's this one that you've changed?
[Derek Walker:] Yes. It's this one.
[John Watts:] Thank you.
[Arnold Bower:] Erm, er I'll I'll close it at two, but perhaps I could ask the the applicants erm, I mean I appreciate that obviously erm it er it economy in in in obviously in what you're doing, but I think it it it would be fairly obviously to, I mean it's been stated that that that that residents nearby would prefer either two bungalows or a house and a bungalow, and I think er that certainly erm new developments adjacent to where you are proposing these are in fact all bungalows, er with the exception of the mill, which of course has been there a long time, er all those on that side of the road, both those two built and those two proposed are a bungalow or a semi bungalow, er and so erm you can see that obviously it is that the height of these buildings, it is erm causing the offence, largely, erm I I think, I mean obviously you will want to to to to main you know, optimize your er development, but whether er a scheme with two bungalows that they wouldn't be four bedroomed bungalows, because there wouldn't be room for two of the four two four bedroomed bungalows, erm
[Pat Beeyer:] Quite what, I mean at the there's one following behind the site of the other
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] that we've got,i i is that a four bedroomed detached house? No.
[Arnold Bower:] The one that's planned?
[Pat Beeyer:] Yes.
[Arnold Bower:] It's a bungalow.
[Pat Beeyer:] That one?
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, er it could be a four bedroomed bungalow, I'm not sure, I can't remember now.
[Pat Beeyer:] But that is right behind it, the stream and and
[Arnold Bower:] That is behind your plot, yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] will not be in any way shape or form detrimental to
[Arnold Bower:] It is of course a lot lower.
[Pat Beeyer:] this is a.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] It's a bungalow, it's going to be screened and it's going to be right at the back, there's going to be no no er
[Arnold Bower:] I'm er
[Pat Beeyer:] problem at all.
[Arnold Bower:] But whatever whatever is put there there is going to be a a four bedroomed house in the garden of the of the cottage, which is erm going to be very much the same as the plot one there anyway, isn't it?
[Pat Beeyer:] I think basically what people are trying to say that two huge houses is negatively very overbearing erm it would be a lot easier to accept one larger dwelling and the smaller property, you know one
[Arnold Bower:] I can understand that, yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] Can you understand what I'm trying to get at.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, obviously yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] I mean Mr Chairman it may just say honestly, I mean this is among ourselves from the commercial point of view there's no doubt about it, I'm in the grocery trade, the more you get on a lorry when you deliver you get every single
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, well I mean, I think, I think it's fairly clear that we can appreciate.
[Pat Beeyer:] but er this is obviously the answer for profit
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] and I don't dispute that at all, but we're not here, I hope, making planning decisions
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] based upon a profit bottom line for Grant Development, we're here looking at the planning application and all the implications.
[Arnold Bower:] No, I mean I know that is is not exactly pertinent to the application that is er in, erm I my personal view is that that that bungalows are are practical, we have had it stated by one resident that a house and a bungalow would be acceptable, erm not that I am er anticipating any other planning develop er applications by these applicants but er would a house of a similar nature to one of these that they have proposed, plus a bungalow er, would we have as much opposition to this, to that as as the present ones, or you would prefer to defer until you saw it?
[Derek Walker:] You're talking about a house on plot one and a bungalow, or chalet bungalow on plot two?
[Arnold Bower:] Possibly, possibly, yes, I'm not too Chairman, if I may add this add this to the outline application, indicating that that's to the rear of the site, the Mayor Yes. site, that deals with a lot of the concerns, a lot of the criticisms that we have Yes. it's set far enough back from the road, Yes. there is an opportunity of being able to screen it from the Farnsfield direction. This development here, as you approach from Farnsfield, if you look at the angle of the position on site, will be clearly visible and it will create the impression that it is it is one single house, because they are so close together they will stick out like a sore thumb. So, Mr Mr Bradford in fact if plot one was a house as as proposed to us But we are not talking terms of plot one and plot two we're simply saying No but I mean in the ones that they have, yes. that the original outline application retain the bungalow and built a house towards the rear of the site. I mean I I think it's fairly clear, unless somebody was a dedicated er
[Irene Young:] fix a roof on it it could be made into a very attractive rural type property, it it's typical of the kind of property which in a village we're dying for
[speaker008:] [LAUGHTER]
[Irene Young:] we want small, small family properties
[Arnold Bower:] Thank you Mr
[Irene Young:] small starter homes for younger people
[speaker008:] Well that's what
[Irene Young:] but there we are, we've got something of that nature, and it's going to be demolished
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, yes.
[Irene Young:] it's going to be flattened, and we're going to end up with two
[John Watts:] Small starter homes, they would like to put about four smaller starter homes on that site, I suppose, and then that
[Derek Walker:] That's always a concern at the villages, because I live in a town, I live in a small town near here, erm I've had a lot of dealings in villages, and people who live in villages always want to have starter homes, but as soon as you put an application in for starter homes, there's even more opposition to it, as happened down in Bleasby, Council threw that one out. You approved three four bedroomed houses behind here, er wasn't any opposition then, was anybody then saying
[Pat Beeyer:] Can I just
[Derek Walker:] we should have starter homes on there.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes.
[Pat Beeyer:] Can I just make a point here, the Parish Council as a body of Parish Councils did not approve the the Bilbany idea
[Derek Walker:] Yes it did.
[Pat Beeyer:] not originally Eric, no.
[Derek Walker:] It was approved
[Kevin Topham:] Well there wasn't six now going down to four.
[Arnold Bower:] Yeah, we whittled the numbers down but
[Pat Beeyer:] We were, we were not in full agreement and happy with the development.
[Derek Walker:] I would think that distance houses there was very much the same as it the distance between the houses here.
[Kevin Topham:] I would think if you were felt the area of the houses on that side, the area of the houses on the Thorny side you would think that one's
[speaker008:] Yes, but you're looking
[Kevin Topham:] relatively good
[Pat Beeyer:] Yes, but the difference is that I've never seen those houses but I have, I can see those.
[Arnold Bower:] We're looking at extremes with a with a situation here
[Pat Beeyer:] I thought you can't see them at all can you
[Arnold Bower:] you're not looking at it in the same way at all.
[speaker008:] at that one wrongly, I shall come in from Farnsfield, you see, and you wouldn't see the house this is on, there's a twenty foot high hedge all the way along.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, but do you agree your houses are going to be somewhat above that?
[Derek Walker:] They're going to be it's not as, it's not as, it's not as if they're right in that corner as you come in from, from er Farnsfield,a a a as Mike said there's a twenty foot fe hedge there, which is going to be kept.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, yes.
[speaker008:] I mean the drawings you showed Derek of this, this proposed street thing which is the wrong way round isn't misleading because you won't see all that.
[Arnold Bower:] No.
[John Watts:] Might I ask you through the Chair? Originally you were going to retain some of the trees, and build among the trees?
[speaker008:] Well we will retain as many trees as we can.
[John Watts:] Yeah, but it's impossible to retain them with two four bedroomed houses, now isn't it? You'll have to uproot the lot, surely?
[speaker008:] Well you see originally, I mean that plan, that one there, doesn't, which has let the bulk of the trees all round there and round this area, there's a couple in the backyard as well. That does not happen if this one be put in.
[John Watts:] What, you're going to get two four bedroomed houses and two double garages up and retain some trees in that bit?
[speaker008:] Depending on what kind of, yeah.
[John Watts:] Well, I I find that totally impossible, I mean I know that, I've been in that plot thousand of times.
[Arnold Bower:] The experience Mr Chairman I have of these situations is that trees happen to fall down, and hedges happen to get pushed by bulldozers, and at the end of the day, because I've seen it in my own village where I was born, I'm afraid with all respect to what happens, what is actually passed by the planners doesn't actually come to pass because there is always a reason why it can't. So I think that what if they care were listening to nominal words about retaining trees and hedges, because trees and hedges have a very clear habit of falling down by accident, Yes. and we want to be very very careful The District Council of course do have their policies on conservation matters, er and er I I accept your point er erm
[Kevin Topham:] Can I just mention that time is getting on and the Parish Council still hasn't discussed this
[Arnold Bower:] Yes it is, yes. We have other subjects, yes.
[Kevin Topham:] This is not the discussion that we
[Arnold Bower:] No, erm if there is no more comment from, Mr Poole, we don't wish to talk about this?
[John Watts:] No, no.
[Arnold Bower:] So will that do? Well, I will resume, if er in is a Parish Council, we will deal with the the orders of planning as they are on the agenda, which is a car park and the Reindeer.
[Derek Walker:] Would you like us to leave now?
[Arnold Bower:] It's up to you, if you wish to stay you can, and if not, you can leave.
[Derek Walker:] Well, thanks thanks very much.
[Arnold Bower:] Yes, thank you.
[Derek Walker:] Thank you.
[speaker008:] Thank you.
[Derek Walker:] Thank you. [sound of people leaving]
[Arnold Bower:] The Reindeer.
[Pat Beeyer:] Mhm.
[Arnold Bower:] Okay. The Reindeer is to push the car park back, half way across the grass, er which is er am I correct in saying that it's putting it back where it was? Or it's er
[John Watts:] Yes you are, Chair.
[Pat Beeyer:] Yes.
[John Watts:] It used to be, it used to be tar tarmacked
[Arnold Bower:] It goes behind
[John Watts:] and they grassed it over for a children's pre pre playground, now they want to turn it back, and extend the car park.
[Irene Young:] Can I just say at this point that erm John will happ had a word with the landlady and the landlord of the Reindeer, with regards to this application, and what the landlady told John was that she and her husband would dearly like to do away with the breeze block garage that is there, that is totally out of character, and extend the car park way back to the garages, but the brewery are insisting that they do what is planned here and do away with some of the
[John Watts:] Grass, yes.
[Irene Young:] and the little trees and that
[Arnold Bower:] Mm.
[Irene Young:] which they would like to retain. They would dearly like to do away with the garage, and I think the landlady said she would just like to mention that, as their comment on the application.
[Kevin Topham:] Well down here we've got the landlady doesn't really want it to go through.
[Irene Young:] Well no, I don't think she's saying that, but what she's saying is their thoughts are, ideally it would be better to demolish the
[Kevin Topham:] Come up with
[Irene Young:] breeze block garage that is there.
[Kevin Topham:] Well, if that's the Parish Council's view then the
[Arnold Bower:] See here?
[Kevin Topham:] obvious thing
[Pat Beeyer:] Is grass.
[Kevin Topham:] is to recommend refusal.
[Arnold Bower:] Is grass.
[Pat Beeyer:] Yes.
[Kevin Topham:] And then we would have to have another think
[Arnold Bower:] And here is grass.
[Kevin Topham:] wouldn't we.
[Irene Young:] So all this lot is converted, it all just
[Kevin Topham:] You can't tell them what they're doing, you can only determine the application you have before you.
[John Watts:] Is the part behind Reindeer Cottage, do people go on that now, or is that part of their garden?
[Kevin Topham:] May I?
[Dale Ross:] Have you seen this Kevin?
[Kevin Topham:] No.
[Dale Ross:] Chairman, am I am I eligible to make a comment from the floor?