[speaker001:] Who told you the facts of life? Did they tell you the truth? Or are you still working it out for yourself? [introduction music]
[speaker002:] Sex education used to be whispered, sniggered and gossiped about, today, we're more enlightened, or are we? Exactly what should be taught, to whom, by whom, and when still provokes heated debate. So, we thought we'd find out what young people want to know, and what they think of the education they've had. After all, this hundred young women have all benefited from the open, healthy, society that's developed over the last few decades, or have they? Let's start with a question. Have you had formal sex education? Button one for yes, and button two for no.... And in this hundred, amazingly, twenty two people say no! Seventy eight said yes. Let's start with the yes's,wha what was it, the formal sex education, you seventy eight? What have you had... and where?
[speaker003:] Sex in, section six in a biology class... about plants
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] flowers and that
[speaker002:] That
[speaker003:] was it!
[speaker002:] That was it?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Plants and flowers?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Didn't you even got on to frogs and rabbits?
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Flowers.
[speaker002:] What about so
[speaker003:] And that's all anybody got was section six, this dreaded section six which we were taught at the end of the year! And that's all anybody got in my school.
[speaker002:] How about humans?
[speaker003:] No. [LAUGHTER] No, just about plants []!
[speaker002:] Seriously?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Beside you.
[speaker004:] Yeah, we had erm... a class, an actual sex education class, every week for a year. Our biology teacher took it, but it was... it was also so, it was the facts about... erm... sex, abortion... contraception, but we also, also talked about the emotional side of things.
[speaker002:] So, would you say it was quite good?
[speaker004:] Yeah, it was quite. I mean, of course there were things that were... missed out I suppose, but... also, I suppose, we were quite young, so it may have quite embarrassing and we didn't want talk about certain things.
[speaker002:] Was that the case or
[speaker004:] Round about twelve or thirteen, I suppose they kind of
[speaker002:] Do you think you were too young to talk about the... th the emotional side
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] of it?
[speaker004:] Probably because most of us weren't really, well, quite a few of us anyway weren't thinking about sex at that time, so I suppose it was kind of you know, you just started
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] your periods and everything and you
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] you're not exactly thinking about sex.
[speaker002:] Okay, so two not absolutely satisfactory er... experiences there. Has any,do has anybody had formal sex education of those seventy eight who that it was very we, it was well taught, that it was good? And you got a... yes?
[speaker005:] Erm, sex education at school was
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] similar to... well the girl mentioned earlier on, that, since then... I've had... within the last couple of years
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] erm, I do voluntary work for the Brook Advisory, er through the peer educators and... that has been very... erm beneficial for... for myself and for the work... that er, we do with
[speaker002:] What
[speaker005:] youths.
[speaker002:] Wha what what is that? I mean te tell me, tell us more about that.
[speaker005:] Well we go to... youth clubs or schools... and, talk to... youths from... eight to eighteen about contraception... erm... drugs... and other topics of concern, abortion, homophobia, things like that.
[speaker002:] What do you think of that? I mean I I, I don't know, what do yo, what do you think sex education should be? Is it, is it important at all? It wasn't, it wasn't much of a subject when I was young, is it, is it a necessary part of the school curriculum? Is it something that should be taught at home? What do you think? I mean,wha, those of you who have children wha, what do you, what do you hope for them? Yes?
[speaker006:] I think it's very important. It's important people know the real facts about it instead a lot of this playground chatter. I also think it's important that... people have this sort of... emotional side of it taught to them as well, you're often taught like the straight, you know, the wee sperm and the wee egg come together and you get a baby, but you don't, not taught about the emotional side of it a lot
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] of the time, I think that's really important.
[speaker002:] Is it possible to teach that.
[speaker006:] Yes I think it is. I think it should be done a lot younger as well.
[speaker002:] Primary age?
[speaker006:] Yeah, primary I think, roundabout primary four or five, cos that's when they start talking about it, and that's where you start getting all the... the wrong things told to you in the playground, I mean I know that's what happened to me.
[speaker002:] Really? So I mean, so wha, when, I mean how old when you found out, and who told you?
[speaker006:] Oh! I was about, I dunno... about primary four age and someone in the playground, I think it was... can't remember exactly what I was told, obviously, but it was... something silly, you know, like
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker006:] really dirty and everything which
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] it isn't.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] It's not a [LAUGHTER] dirty thing [].
[speaker002:] Yep. Yes? Yes? There.
[speaker007:] Oh, erm, I just want to say how can a four or five year old... er, understand the concepts and... the emotions involved in sexual... relationships?
[speaker006:] Well they don't have to know
[speaker007:] If it's just erm
[speaker006:] exactly what it is, but th we should be told that it's not a dirty thing, it's not a bad thing. You know what I mean? At th, a lot of people are just told that it's so dirty, which is isn't... and I
[speaker002:] Mm mm.
[speaker006:] just think... should, you should get across that it isn't dirty.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker008:] Isn't it, but you don't you think that's more so for females than it is for males, the fact that it is such a dirty thing that, that applies more to females than it does, to males?
[speaker006:] I think it applies to both sexes.
[speaker002:] Can you avoid the kind of dirty, sniggering aspect though? I mean, is it possible to to, to have a holy, healthy attitude to, to sex?
[speaker009:] I think erm... we could have a much healthier aspect to it if it was taught to u in a healthier way, I mean
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker009:] so many of the teachers that teach it are far too embarrassed to broach the... subject sensibly, you know, and they just pass it on... and so kids don't treat it sensibly.
[speaker010:] I feel we're expecting
[speaker001:] But don't you
[speaker010:] an awful lot from teachers, you know, we're just expecting that they know everything about sex education. I feel that teachers must be educated, if they can education us.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Any other views? Yes?
[speaker001:] That last point, you were saying about, you know giggling and laughing about it, I think, that that's a part of it, I mean sex can be fun
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] so what's wrong with... er it shouldn't be dealt with in a like a really serious way, it should be fun for everybody and what's wrong with having a laugh about it as well?
[speaker002:] What about home? I mean er, I wonder in fact I mi I might as you this question, have you discussed er sex with your parents? Button one for yes, and button two for no. And, in this hundred... sixty one, yes... thirty nine, no. Does, do those votes surprise you? Do you think er... yes? I think that everyone seems to pass the buck, I mean... the parents think, oh they'll learn it at school and the teachers think, oh co... they should be learning it from their parents, and yo, you never learn it from anyone just from your friends. Yes?
[speaker003:] I think erm sexuality begins with sensuality... and therefore it should begin in the home, and it should be exaggerated at school, I mean, it should helped but fundamentally it's with your parents or guardians whoever, who should begin it.
[speaker002:] Is that your experience?
[speaker003:] Yeah, I mean I'm I'm very lucky because my parents are very liberal, and I mean they discussed sex with me quite early on and I've never had a problem discussing it with them. But that's not the case with everyone... er I mean un unfortunately I wish it was.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker004:] Yeah, that i, is precisely, it isn't the case with everyone, I mean, I think that what the girl was saying up there about the groups going round, it's a great idea! It was the same in the biology, biology teacher at our school, it was very hush hush and very embarrassed.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I think if you got maybe a... twenty five year old who came to your school for a week... and... got you in a small group... and talked about it, it would be great on a one to one basis.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] Erm,a, my mother didn't speak to me about sex until I was pregnant!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] You know which... I I i wa, I wasn't totally embarrassed about it but I just we, I think she was, you know, that sort of generation and that era, which I hope with my son it will be totally different, like... come to me and say anything you like, you know?
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I'm a liberal parent. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker005:] Yeah, there's probably two points I would want to say, one is that, what about the children and young people tha that refuse to go to school? And where's the education for them? I think the other one, about the woman across there said about, should start at home with sensuality and stuff and... many of the young women that I work wi, I've... I've heard very negative experiences of sex
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] through sexual abuse, and I think we spend a lot of our time, and I think even for teachers, we spend a lot of our time undoing a lot of the damage of helping young people, undo a lot of damage that's done by sex. I don't think... they view it as a dead happy, enjoyable, fun thing and it's something that... that they do if you say, is really serious and
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] something that is nay... er positive for them.
[speaker006:] It doesn't matter, I mean, where or whom you've been told by, as long as you've been told... you can take precautions later in life from sexual diseases and... and getting yourself pregnant.
[speaker002:] Mhm. What comes into sex education? I mean,th tha tha that's interesting what you said, because you said how to avoid sexual diseases and to er... avoid getting pregnant, are those the basics of sex education... or or what more would put onto the list of things that you would teach? Yes?
[speaker007:] I think when somebody teaches it they teach it in the premise that everybody they're talking to is heterosexual. What about people that are homosexual? What about like... contraception should be integral part of it, and abortion and the options open to you, but I think it's very important that we are taught it, we're taught it in a heterosexual basis, and that's just not the case, and that just alienates people any more, really more from a very early age.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker008:] I'm still doing sex education at schools and look like it's changing a lot cos there's a lot more to do there, a lot more emphasis on Aids, that's why they've got to ki, teach kids in primary school, we've got to prevent them from getting a disease.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] I was gonna say about sex education that when I was learning at school, it's also very male dominated erm... it was, I mean you were talking about erm... what's i li, the differences between males and females learning about sex education and wha, and we were learnt about the the man having pleasure, we were taught about the man having the erection and... the man having the orgasm, I mean, we didn't even know what a clitoris was! Th I mean, I've never even heard of the term clitoris, and a friend of mine thought her clitoris was actually her epiglottis, I mean it [LAUGHTER] just got []
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] the whole the thing just got completely confused. And that's when
[speaker002:] But do you think it's appropriate to teach sex in that kind of detail... to to school children?
[speaker009:] Erm
[speaker002:] To tau, to teach pe, school children about sexual pleasure for instance, er er er rather than the biological facts of reproduction?
[speaker009:] I think it's part and parcel of sex, and so, yes, I do think it is very important and I think it is... a process that does have to, have to be started very young, and is on-going throughout our education.
[speaker002:] Now I would guess that goes further that most school curricular. I mean has anyone learnt about sexual pleasure, at er, at school? Or about er, the male and female orgasms?
[speaker010:] Well obviously you learn about the male orgasm... because that's what... creates a baby but... I think she was right, the female... orgasm is never mentioned... but it's there
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker010:] or should be. Ha!
[speaker002:] Yep?
[speaker001:] I think it's very important that er... females should be taught that it's pleasurable for them as well, you
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] haven't just to literally lie back there and the man says what happens, when it happens, and they're to do as they're told sort of thing because that obviously develops sexual abuse, women being raped, and attitudes that lead towards these things. It's very important you're taught that, er... such feelings as respect, love, emotions all come into this... and a woman has a right to say no, if she doesn't
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] want this, and it's not up to a man to decide what happens.
[speaker002:] But it seems that that isn't what's being taught, and therefore,in information about that comes, well either via your own experience or talking with friends or reading womens' magazines or... I mean whe, where do we actually get our education from? Learn through
[speaker003:] Like you said
[speaker002:] more through magazines than I did at school, because in school I was taught nothing about pleasure, it was all very biological with a diagram of the male and the female, exactly what happened, there was nothing about... er, sexually transmitted diseases, pleasure or abortion, contraception, nothing... mentioned, only the mere basics. Now, normally in this programme when we talk about womens' magazines, people are inveighing against them because they carry various advertisements that they find offensive or exploitative, but are women's magazines actually erm... performing quite a useful job by filling in the gaps that that schools and parents are... are failing to address? What do you think? Any, yes?
[speaker004:] I think they're a very dangerous mode of education because they provide a very stereo-typed image of everything, everybody that they're talking about if they're talking about sex, they presume to be able bodied, they're presumed to be white generally, they're presumed to be heterosexual, if they're talking about homosexual then, it's definitely male... lesbians
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] never come into it.
[speaker005:] I'm sorry, but I think these must be in the wrong magazines! The magazines that are out today are very informative of where you can get the addresses of places to go, they give both sides of homosexuality... you know, male and female as far I've seen, and definitely in the past two years or so.
[speaker002:] Now, is that our best hope, is is is is the commercial provision of womens' magazine is the best hope we have for getting in, in any information we want? I mean, in an ideal world what wha what agenda would you draw up?
[speaker006:] I don't think it's necessarily about teaching... er... children primarily about sex or about sexual pleasure, I think it's all, initially, about personal hygiene and then... developing that into how they can make their life safer for themself, or giving them choices to say, well I can choose to become pregnant... or not to become pregnant... and, I think it's more about choices rather than saying... orgasms and... erm... sexual pleasure, or
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] telling youngsters, when they can't actually understand the concept of having sex.
[speaker002:] Mm. Yes?
[speaker007:] I think if erm, perhaps if television did something more about it you'd be able to... erm, home in on the people who are excluded, erm, people who are outside... school, school situations, people
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] who don't actually go to school. Erm, looking at certain problems, a lot of erm... young women who get pregnant don't get pregnant at school, they get pregnant as soon as they leave school.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] Erm, in say, an area, a a deprived area it's very often hard for women to get access to information. Basically, there's a comparison of figures that erm... one pregnancy in every two hundred and fifty six in Morningside is to women under twenty, yet one in four in, in an area like Craigmiller is to women under twenty so there's a big sort of... difference. And you need to access, you need to key in to certain areas as well, so television could be the ideal way to do that.
[speaker002:] But it's not doing it at the moment, although there's
[speaker007:] Well... no it certainly doesn't seem to be with, one in four girls getting pregnant.
[speaker002:] Well people generally complain about sex on television... so, the way it's being presented. Up there.
[speaker008:] You often find that erm... television with sex and everything, they always put it on after a certain time for children go to bed. It's like, Aids and that... like the glue sniffing advert, for instance, put on... fo... when the children go to bed, but they should be able to see that,sho, they should be able to see... look, well that's putting a message across to me as well, not just the parents, to me, I'm the one that's involved and I think that... if... well maybe the... the producers would maybe... or the people that... do television would maybe put i... to... say, seven o'clock or that, where... young children primary school age can actually sit and watch it.
[speaker009:] I think if you got taught sex education in maybe, smaller groups, you know erm... if they could with individual teachers
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] er they, you know, were people that you trust and... that you could ask questions that you wouldn't be embarrassed
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] that'd help a lot.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker010:] Erm, I think if they were more honest and open, I mean... like parents and schools and stuff, it wouldn't be so difficult for people to talk about it, and... there wouldn't be as many, the jokes about it. If if everybody spoke about, the communication was better... then... it'd be a lot easier for people that deal with it.
[speaker002:] Yeah? Beside you.
[speaker001:] I think it's just our culture as well
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] that influences our... opinions on it, you know. And, I think it's really important that... sex education in schools should be taught by somebody that the pupils can relate to. Cos I know when I was at school we actually got our sex education in fourth year, and it was by a visiting lecturer, it was this wee old man about fifty, he said basically, this is a male body, this is a female body, nothing about sexuality, orgasms anything! It was terrible! So I
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker001:] think that's really important.
[speaker002:] I'm going back to the thing about erm and boys and Mhm. today, in school we had a two members of a family planning association and er, we were in group... and we actually had... the guys in our class, they're seventeen, maybe eighteen... sitting laughing and sniggering between themselves! And that's at that age! And I would say, in our school... we've had the Aids team in and we've talked quite a lot about sex education... and they're still sniggering! They're still... having their jokes between
[speaker001:] Mm mm.
[speaker002:] themselves Mm. and whatever. I don't think we're ever gonna get away from that. Why do you think that is? It's... I don't know what it was, er... they hardly, we were having a discussion with the doctor, erm... none of them would put forward their opinions or their views or what they thought No. we're talking about abortion, who's responsibility it was, erm... they just... were nay prepared to put forward their opinions. Is that your common experience that that young men aren't aren't really up to this? Yeah?
[speaker003:] No. I work for the same pre project as Verity and I worked with... five, fifteen, sixteen year old boys, just yesterday, and they were one of the best groups I'd ever worked with because
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] they were interested. And it was contraception, which as you all know, is predominantly female... and they were... interested like, what their partners would use, what they will use... and, it was wonderful! I couldn't believe... because I always thought that it was the guys that sniggered, the guys that weren't interested
[speaker002:] Mm mm.
[speaker003:] and through past experience it is changing.
[speaker002:] Was it a mixed group or er
[speaker003:] No. No, we had five sa, boys... no mixed.
[speaker002:] Do you think ma, do you think maybe that's, that's one of the answers, to separate the sexes for, for these discussions or
[speaker003:] No, I think maybe if the girls had been in they might have been a bit shier and felt... you know, oh we have to act... you know, the lads.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] You know, so maybe... but
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker004:] I think the guys snigger because they're covering up for their embarrassment... that's
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker004:] their way of breaking the ice and showing that... they just, they, that's way of coping with it.
[speaker005:] I think that they may be... frightened to speak up and that... they're scared that... if they say something... that they don't know, like a lot of them don't know the facts, like today, in the same class as Janine across there, some of them didn't know even the very... the pro, progression of the male pill or anything like that, and they did learn a few things but... a again they never spoke up... and they weren't interested, but I
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] think it was because of embarrassment.
[speaker002:] Yeah? Up there.
[speaker006:] I think, you know, I think in answer to the embarrassment question, I think although it is about that... erm, people are nay do, people wi on just are nay prepared to commit with information, I think, in areas there's a wealth of information and experience
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] and people who are prepared to discuss the issue but they just don't come out the door... to where... erm, the people are that need the information. I
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] think there has to be a... er family planning centres have to more on the street, I think family planning... clinics have got the people there who are able to go out on the street. I think the other issue is that... we have to be defending... erm, the family planning centres that are being closed down, like the forty or fifty in Glasgow, the thirteen in... er Edinburgh,th the east of Scotland
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] and I think that is just gonna create... you know, a bigger ignorance amongst young people... erm, you know a bigger ignorance about contraception itself
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] which again, there is nay a hundred percent safe contraception
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] to prevent pregnancy, or any other disease for that matter. And I think that's something
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker006:] that we're gonna have to... start er... defending, you know, because we... er er, we, we have got a wealth of experience and information it just has to be shared.
[speaker002:] You're not suggesting pregnancy's a disease there... are you?
[speaker006:] For some of us, aye, yeah.
[speaker002:] A
[speaker006:] It is a disease!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] In Holland... er, young teenagers are taught in school how to... how to use condoms, now I don't know whether that's taught in schools or, or classes in Scotland,i is it?
[speaker001:] It should be!
[speaker002:] Has anyone, I mean has anyone had that experience? Yes?
[speaker007:] Well I got a video... and, like, that's all we got a few videos and the video showed you how to use a condom, and that was it.
[speaker002:] And that was at school?
[speaker007:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But that's probably more than a lot of people did, and everyone's being urged to use condoms, but how many people are actually... given any instruction on how to use them? Yes?
[speaker008:] Well... yesterday we actually went to... to a school and... you show them how to use with a condom demonstrator and... allow them to touch the condoms, and in youth clubs you allow them to do... practically anything with them, as long as they're returned, they can blow them up, or they can
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker008:] shoot them across the room or whatever. But I think all the silliness is all part of... actually adjusting to... the condom, and something to do with the embarrassment... that because they don't know enough about it... they, they don't want to be... er, seen to be silly
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker008:] so, they put up a front, and
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker008:] I think it's all part of it, that they will be silly initially, but they'll som, soon co, er come to realize that it's... sensible.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] In a, in our school we were shown by our guidance teacher how to put a condom... and he used a banana
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] so, that just shows you that... that can happen. And we... it was fourth year when we done it and... we'd never been shown anything like that and it was interesting because... it's the sort of fact that you... you never really think about
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] until yo... you're actually gonna do it, sort of thing... which I thought it was interesting.
[speaker002:] Do you think er, as young women you have a right, on behalf perhaps, of women ten years younger than you, to suggest changes in what's happening now? You're obviously in, and... the other people in the, in the Brook are er... advisory peer groups, are are doing work, people are suggesting, they they they think that should be extended, what more might be done? Audrey?
[speaker010:] I think it erm... it possibly could be politicized and actually funded. I was wondering if erm... the girl at the back was actually a volunteer or if she was in fact, paid for her work? Because I I do know of of various different groups who are working in this field as volunteers, there's no money... behind them there, and I mean... i i it should be a priority, it should be given that kind of priority where
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] funds are made for it.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] Voluntary.
[speaker002:] It is voluntary. Yeah. I mean, yes?
[speaker008:] Can I just say that, about the age thing again, erm, I also do, with the Brook Peer Group
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker008:] and erm... I went to a youth club and I... I was speaking to eight year olds... and they're asking about condoms cos they've seen them in the street, so it's obviously... they're wanting to find out about it cos it's everywhere around them... even, doesn't matter what age.
[speaker002:] And what will you tell an eight year old?
[speaker008:] Erm, well we let them... and again we brought out the demonstrator and we let them touch condoms... erm... do anything they wanted with them as long as we got them back. But they're fi, they're going to find about it cos it's... everywhere.
[speaker001:] I think one of the main points is not so much the way it's taught but who teaches it. Because, going back to the point earlier on, erm, when I was taught I say, it was a local nurse from th er, the clinic that taught us... I mean I've nothi, nothing against elder women in their fifties and whatever, but I mean, there again, one, it shouldn't always be females who teach about sex, it should be males, and it should be younger people to relate
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] to, because, one of the main points about the embarrassing er aspect, mainly boys sniggering and giggling, whatever, maybe some girls do, but it's mainly... er, males, I think a point to be made there is, it is a well known fact that boys took longer to mature emotionally than girls... and I think if it was a guy... a younger guy, maybe in his late twenties, early thirties teaching it, and if he had the sort of guts to turn round and the bravery to say... look son, what is it you're laughing at, what's so funny? I mean
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] you're seventeen years old, if you're old enough to have sex surely you're old enough to... you know, think about it in a mature way. And it would ta, take someone like that just to make them think, yeah, well, you know what is so funny in... get rid of this sort of stigma about boys being immature.
[speaker002:] I also work for the peer group... for the Brook Mhm. and er, we have two boys that do it with us as well and when they come out to youth clubs with us... the girls and the boys that we go and speak to... love having a male there Mhm. that they can go and... the boys have a good laugh with them, and the girls have a good laugh as well and it seems to work. A, any concluding thoughts on er... on the future for sex education in Scotland?
[speaker003:] I'd agree that it's important
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] that people can... make their o, they have a balanced education which allows them then to make their own choices about, that... things aren't over, I mean if we've lived in a patriarchal society in which men are in power and that kin, and male sexuality maybe has come through more in sex education, those have been the issues that have been... co,ha have been given more importance and female issues have maybe been neglected a little bit... and now erm, with Aids as a problem... we don't want to turn out and suddenly become really homo homophobic or really, you know, right condoms, condoms, it has to be... you know, you need to kind of keep the balance so that people... are given the information and then have the freedom to make the choice themselves.
[speaker004:] I think they should get rid of the stigma in condoms, cos what frightens me is that... in about ten years time my daughter will come and maybe ask if she can go on the pill and at least I can tell her... no, use a condom there's less chance of... sexually transmitted diseases, but it's my sons... they won't come and ask.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker005:] I think the problem is, that... at the moment sex education is so arbitrary and it varies from school to school and from house to house... I think they have to make it like a core part of the curriculum, make it compulsory and make it uniform throughout the country, so everybody's getting the same education, the same quality... I think that'll help.
[speaker002:] Lots of good ideas. Thank you very much for discussing this and opening up watch, what is, too often a... a a taboo area. I hope you found it interesting? I have. And thanks for joining us. Goodbye. [closing music]