[speaker001:] Your wedding is the happiest day of your life... no? Well, what is it then? [introduction music]
[speaker002:] Getting married is something that most Scottish women do at least once in their lives, and most Scottish men, which means that most of us have planned a wedding... and that's what we're talking about tonight, weddings. Where you have them, who comes, what you wear, what you do, what it costs, and what you think about it later. Now, if like me you've yet to attempt this big production number you could pick up a few tips here, after all, we've a number of professionals in this hundred, hoteliers, dressmakers, cake makers, photographers, and video makers, registrars, ministers, but above all, we have a lot ex-brides here, and let's start off by finding how many we have. Have you been a bride? Button one for yes, and button two for no. And, in this hundred we have sixty nine... er ex-brides... thirty one still to make the leap. Now wo er erm, I can't ask you whether it was the happiest day of your life because only sixty nine of you would know. We well was it?
[speaker003:] It's the only day, really in a women's life where everybody at her and she's made to feel like the most special person on this earth, so I'd highly recommend it.
[speaker002:] Was that your experience?
[speaker003:] Yes it was, yeah. You're the only person there wearing the ball gown, you're the only person there getting their photograph taken a hundred times over
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] so you're made to feel the most special person on the earth and I think that makes it worth it for a lot of them.
[speaker002:] Did you like it so much you you'd you'd you'd do you would do it again?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Possibly not, no []!
[speaker002:] But it worked? I mean, for you that big day, cos I mean it is, it's a, it's a nerve wracking occasion isn't it?
[speaker003:] Yeah, it's it's it's the build up to it as well, there's a lot of excitement, I mean, most people it takes about six months to build up to the big day, and then finally it's there and it all happens and, I think that makes it a lot, exciting for a lot of women.
[speaker002:] Now, was that the the experience of the, of the other sixty eight of you ex-wives? Yes?
[speaker004:] I think a lot of people get carried away with the occasion and it's actually supposed to be a very romantic day, and, you know, that's what it was for me.
[speaker002:] So it was everything you hoped it would be?
[speaker004:] Yes. But I think people do get carried away with traditions and the occasion and this grand affair... and really, it could be a very small low-key affair, but it's, it's meant to be a very romantic special day for two people.
[speaker002:] Yes? Behind you.
[speaker005:] I... I think erm... i it seems very sad if we can single out one day to be the most important in our lives.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] And it's a very special thing if you're going to join forces with another person, and good luck to you, but... I think erm it seems that, there maybe down [LAUGHTER] forever after that [], if it's the most important day!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Er, have you been a bride?
[speaker005:] Yes I have. I've actually [LAUGHTER] been a bride twice actually []!
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker005:] Erm... and, and very [LAUGHTER] enjoyable days [] they were, but erm... I think if I were to plan a big party, or an anniversary or something like that, and I'd hope those would be jolly enjoyable days too.
[speaker002:] Mhm. Yes?
[speaker006:] I would like to get married all over again, to to the same person I might add, but
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker006:] so that I could actually enjoy it more this time because... it's in, so much of a blur... when you get married the first time that... you're caught up with it and you don't really see what happens, I would like to get married all over again.
[speaker002:] What did you do?
[speaker006:] Well I was actually married in England because... I'm E, I'm English, but one of guys, erm, for instance, he wore a kilt and he showed all the English what he wore under the kilt
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker006:] and I missed it!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker006:] That, so I don't know what a man wears under his [LAUGHTER] kilt []!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I, oh I can't believe that []!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] Well, I haven't been married but I have, did recently graduate, and that was a very important day for me
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] and, personally, I'd much rather have er, people looking at me for what I achieved er, rather than just looking pretty on a day, I think that's more important to me.
[speaker002:] Sian... you're a florist
[speaker008:] Yes.
[speaker002:] now, er supposing weddings disappeared would that affect your business?
[speaker008:] Weddings are a very important part, and a part that er, we all enjoy... but erm... we, I wouldn't say it was the major part of a florist's business, there's quite a few other aspects. As a florist you're dealing with most important days in peoples' lives, very often... new babies, weddings, funerals, erm... but no, I wouldn't say if weddings disappeared we'd all be... you know, in a terrible mess as a professionals, but... it's a very important part and an enjoyable part.
[speaker002:] Fiona, what about you?
[speaker009:] It's the same for us really, it's not the main part of the business
[speaker002:] Well you better say what your business is.
[speaker009:] in cake decorating and associated things, people have cakes for all occasions and erm... wedding cake's only one of them. But erm... again, it's it's good fun, kind of a good laugh with the wedding cake, at least with a wedding cake you're spending money and you're getting fed... and everybody's getting a bit of it!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] And do you do a er,do as far as the cake goes, I mean er, is there a variety in er... in the option?
[speaker009:] Oh certainly! Yes, yes. I mean you... we, we have made, you know, black wedding cakes for people that feel, something like that, we've even made divorce cakes, so you don't have to get married to have one!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] What, what, what, what's a divorce cake look like?
[speaker009:] Mm.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] We had a bo, a broken heart
[speaker002:] A broken heart, aha.
[speaker009:] with sort of a trail of red blood coming out the middle!
[speaker002:] Oh!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Roberta... if weddings disappeared a large part of your business wou would go wouldn't it?
[speaker010:] Again, I think, like the rest erm
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] we evolved from the general fashion side, which is still as important to us, but the reason that we did probably evolve in in the the wedding side is because of th the need for us, it wasn't... us who pushed it from our end, more and more brides came to us, so therefore we grew.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker010:] Sort of
[speaker001:] My wedding wasn't an ordinary wedding, I was married on top of Arthur's Seat and erm
[speaker002:] You were married on top of Arthur's Seat
[speaker001:] Yes, at sunrise on Christmas Eve four years ago... and, it was important for us to do exactly what we wanted because erm... it was a second wedding for both of us... and it was also erm... we wanted to have something that represented sort of the aspirations of love... and so, sunrise erm, and on the top of a hill... did that for us. And, if you can find a minister that's willing to go wherever you want to go! [LAUGHTER] In Scotland you can, can do almost anything.
[speaker002:] Aren't you a minister yourself?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] So have you, have you performed any un unconventional weddings?
[speaker001:] Yes, erm... well I I've not done a wedding in a church actually yet, but then I've only done three weddings, and, but the most interesting one was in a Brock in Glenelg... and erm, that was quite exciting because the couple really thought about the service and they had selected that sight because it meant something to them, and... involved the whole community and thereabout, and it was great!
[speaker002:] Mm. Do you mind if I ask you about, about your own wedding o on the top of Arthur's Seat on Christmas Eve four
[speaker001:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] well Christmas eve was it?
[speaker001:] Yes, Christmas eve, well
[speaker002:] Did you have many guests... at sunrise?
[speaker001:] Well we, we had about sixty... erm, people that trudged up to the top of the hill including erm, one who didn't know there was a wedding, he was a runner, and then he [LAUGHTER] and he had tagged the top of Arthur's Seat and was astonished to see a crowd there.
[speaker002:] What do you wear to a mountain top wedding in the middle of winter?
[speaker001:] Well you wear an anorak and a woollen skirt and... walking shoes.
[speaker002:] Is that the most unusual wedding we have in this hundred tonight? I mean, has e,ye yes, yes it seems so, yes!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] No ones, no ones gonna do anything crazier than that! You touched on church weddings, now... lots and lots of people do get married in church, although many of them aren't er... aren't necessarily... church-goers, now Chrissie, can I, can I pick on you? You perfo yo as a Church of Scotland minister Aha. you perform weddings? Yup! If people aren't church-goers do you, will you still give them a church wedding? Yes. Why? Cos not all ministers will will they? Well I think it gives them a link with the church, erm... and they don't just come in and say oh yes, turn up on Saturday and you'll get married, there's... some meeting before that Mhm. so that we don't all meet as strangers on the day.
[speaker003:] We found that a lot of young couples that... because you don't go to church on a regular basis... but erm, to go along with their parents' wishes too, rather than going through a big church wedding in a church, they go to a hotel and they have the erm, wedding ceremony and the reception all in the hotel, and are married by a minister. And that
[speaker002:] So there had to be
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker002:] A minister will go out to a ho hotel.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Have you done that Chrissie? Have you ever Yeah I have. Erm, I don't like it... er, not for particularly any religious reason but for the fact that the church is purpose-built for weddings and a lot of hotels aren't, so you get the girl with the ball gown, spent hundreds on it, and she's squeezed up sometimes and nobody can see her! But erm... I prefer to marry in the church. Angela?
[speaker004:] We were married at home, and one of the reasons why is because we bought a very old house about three years ago and on the top floor it has a, a large room which used to be the ballroom, and we did a little research and we found that the last wedding that we know of in the house took place in seventeen fifty eight, when apparently it was very common in Scotland to get married at home, it was more uncommon to go to church.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker004:] We did some more research and we found out that in return for doing this you had to pay the minister a fine, so we found a minister who was very excited by the idea of marrying us in a seventeen century house, and in fact, on the morning of the wedding he was more worried about what he was wearing than what I was!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] And erm, it wa, at the reception afterwards we actually paid him the fine... er, a contribution to a a, a fund his church had for a painting they wanted to buy.
[speaker002:] They pay the minister a fine?
[speaker004:] Yes.
[speaker002:] But it's not convention of course, to pay the minister anything is it? I mean, Church of Scotland Ministers don't get paid. No. Er, it's different in other churches I think. Some, I think some people sometimes give a gift, [LAUGHTER] I've never, I don't think I've had a gift []!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] I'd been, a few weeks ago I'd been to a wedding, and it was the most boring
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] ceremony I ever been in all my life! I get married about eleven years ago, it was four of us, me and my, the groom... and two witnesses. It was a special day but every day of my life it's a special... so it's nothing, I would not do it again, you know, just to
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] but er, I think most of the time the wedding in here is much more geared for... how the bride look like and photographer, it is all the time for four hours, how you stand, it's nothing normal,noth nothing natural, nothing
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] nothing happy, you ju just to stand there, you can't laugh properly and you can't do this, and you can't do this, it's worse
[speaker002:] So you think people are forced into conventional modes because they fe
[speaker005:] It was awful!
[speaker006:] How often do we, we really feel that the bride and groom are the people who make the choice?
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker006:] Is it not the parents
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] who are inclined to impose their choice on the bride and groom in a lot of cases?
[speaker002:] Is, was that your experience?
[speaker006:] Not me personally but I have known... a few people who've wanted perhaps, a very quiet wedding, just in a registry office, and finished up with a large church wedding.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] You talk about Brides' magazines, or any of the other magazines that are there, it's all set out, it's all hyped up... and, I think a lot of people feel they ha, really have to get married in that way.
[speaker002:] Hannah?
[speaker008:] I was just going to say that... being a photographer, we find that more and more people come with their mothers instead of the fiance whenever they're going to get married, and... it is all the time, the mother... has a big say in it... you know, instead of the couple.
[speaker002:] Well now, there must be some mothers here who er
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Any mothers who've married off their daughters in this dictatorial way, saying you must have this dress! You must allow
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] to spend seven thousand pounds on you! Yes?
[speaker009:] Expectations... just went too far! For instance, I mean er... my boyfriend, [cough] excuse me, I've been er living with him for years, and I have a child. Now I was at a wedding a little while back... and all they were asking me was... are you gonna be the next one? Are you gonna be the next one? It's like, I've already been asked, and I've refused, and I want to know... why is it people put so much pressure on you... to get married? For instance, in the hospital they were calling me Mrs, because er... the stigma er, is so much, and I mean er, I even get called a single parent and I'm not! I have a very stable relationship, and also with my child, and I know that it would be very difficult for us to split up, but I don't see why a bit of paper or a lovely ball gown, or a nice cake, will make it any better for me... at all?
[speaker002:] You're not
[speaker009:] No! I just
[speaker010:] But what about the child?
[speaker009:] Th er, well for instance er, the child has took... his name, I mean er... you know
[speaker010:] But why can he take his name when he's your child and you haven't different names?
[speaker009:] It doesn't matter because I I love him so much?
[speaker010:] What about the child though?
[speaker009:] Well why should I have... a pretty dress and a cake... when it's the love that's there... and not a piece of paper or a special day!
[speaker002:] Up there.
[speaker001:] Er I have a great sympathy for for that lady. I think I will be a very unconventional mother, and having two daughters of my own I am appalled by the cost that this is going to... erm [LAUGHTER] involve! Ah, if you're to believe the press that it costs about seven thousand pounds for... a wedding, an average cost for a wedding
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] I would far rather say, if I had the seven thousand pounds, say to both my daughters there you are dears, there's the seven thousand pounds you decide how much of that you want for your wedding... what is left over you keep, and it would be interesting to find out how much they then spent on their photographers, and on their cake, and the, the wedding cars etcetera.
[speaker002:] I would just to say, I think women, women are such victims of the fashion industry and I think there's a lot more hype surrounding th the bride than there is surrounding the groom and er... I think erm, you know th a lot more thought needs to go into the whole thing, there's so much pressure on young people, particularly girls and there's sa, so much idealism around the whole thing... erm, and and there's a lot of alternatives to marriage, you know, and this is discounted as th, the woman over there said, about being referred to as Mrs, particularly when you're over a certain age if you're not married. Have you had a wedding? No. No. I've managed to avoid it! Mm mm.
[speaker003:] I think it depends very much on the age of the people getting married
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] young people very commonly are escorted by their mothers and the thing is, the politics of the family and showing themselves to their friends, but more and more we're dealing with people
[speaker002:] Now you're a caterer?
[speaker003:] I'm a caterer.
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker003:] probably my age... and, even a bit older, thirty, forty, getting married, sometimes a second time, and they say this is our party
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] and they are not influenced, I don't think, by a large amount of... hype and fashion. And there, as someone else said, erm earlier, organizing their party, the day of their life which happens to be also their wedding day, and those sort of parties are far more fun to work at than the... far more... stilted family affairs that do happen for younger people.
[speaker004:] With regards about the lady... that you've the relationship, a stable relationship, not being married... another lady pointed out, but what about the child? Maybe get married and maybe not work out, then divorce, so what happens to the child then?
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker004:] I don't think it's any different.
[speaker005:] I think we've, we've said quite a bit about erm... previously about the symbolism of, of a wedding, if
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] it's a special day to you, you know getting married on the top of Arthur's Seat or whatever, but what about for the majority of people who who have a church wedding and the symbolism there that just goes unstated. This whole thing of the... bride being, well often not, but frogmarched down the aisle and being transferred from being her father's property to being her husband's property
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] and that being taken... by, by taking his name! You know, there's a lot of symbolism that really has been lost, people don't think about in the wedding service, but is underlying, you know, until fa fairly recently a lot of people promised to obey, erm, look at Prince Andrew and that when he got married, you know, erm, the Duchess of York actually promised to obey him
[speaker002:] That was her choice presumably.
[speaker005:] and what does that say for, what does say for women... erm, and for the status of women in this country?
[speaker002:] Well, in her case, presumably, she wanted to say she would obey him and and... subsequently perhaps she has, and he's very happy with that, but that's a fairly cynical view isn't it, the the the bride's a kind of ceremonial heifer, who's had
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] in lace, in lace? I mean doesn't that
[speaker005:] But that, there is a lot of a symbolism there that people... don't seem to look at
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] anymore, you know because it's the nice ceremony and because it's it's a do.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker006:] Er, I vividly remember my, my wedding day, and the bit I remember most is actually waiting to go into church with my father, and I remember... being particularly moved at that time... thinking that that was the end of one era... and about to become part of another... and I didn't feel that I was... being owned somebody and about to be owned by anyone else in the slightest!
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] I think when you talk about symbolism of a wedding, in actual fact, what does a wedding say? It says, very little about the practicalities of life. If people are going to prepare to spend the rest of their lives together, they should be discussing much more important things than concepts, like forever, they should be discussing, what happens if it's splits up? Which it... statistically now, is quite often going to do. But surely, sitting down working out the legality of it, working out... sensible practical things is a much more... sensible way of proving you love somebody, and that you're you're genuine about it!
[speaker008:] But you're not sensible when you're in love! You're not sensible when you're in love!
[speaker007:] Well maybe you should be sensible!
[speaker008:] !
[speaker007:] Maybe that's why so many children are products of broken, broken
[speaker008:] !
[speaker007:] homes now!
[speaker009:] When you're go into a marriage
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] go into a wedding, you go in believing that it is forever... that's it!
[speaker008:] That's right!
[speaker009:] You take your vows, you commit yourself!
[speaker007:] But it usual, but nowadays it quite often
[speaker008:] But that's why so many babies
[speaker007:] isn't forever and people don't think often enough
[speaker009:] That's statistics, I mean there's
[speaker007:] well maybe statistics are.
[speaker009:] But if you have a wedding day, you are going in there saying... I'm going to live with this person for the rest of my life.
[speaker001:] Oh! Yeah.
[speaker009:] And you firmly believe that at the time!
[speaker002:] Up there. Yeah?
[speaker001:] Er, I would like to know how much of the the, the, the thing about the bridal magazines and the whole idea of, of a wedding is portrayed and the media has an influence on a... a young girl wanting to get married rather than the actual... you know,th th, you know how much sh she knows the person, or loves the person, maybe it's the, the whole image of the wedding that takes over, you know, erm rather than the, the, the practicalities.
[speaker002:] Well Moira, were you over influenced by the media, wanting to have that No. big day? I lived with my husband for... er, three and a half years, and I knew him for a good number of years before then, so we made a joint decision after that period of time that we were, wanted to commit ourselves Mm. and... we looked on it more as... a party and a family gathering and showing everybody else that we were now committed and we're going to spend the rest of our lives together. Well there's been some scepticism about the symbolism of, of weddings there's also some scepticism about the reality of making that vow forever, er, which I personally have sympathy with cos I don't see how you can say you're going to do anything forever, but I suppose if you've made a vow you've got to stick with it. Is it possible to have a wedding ceremony... that er, that dodges those rather difficult bits? I mean, Chrissie, are you allowed to have a wedding ceremony tha tha which says erm... I'll love you for as long as I can possibly manage?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] I've heard erm... people saying, I think it was in America... erm, as, as long as you both shall love... instead of as long as you both shall live. Yes.
[speaker003:] If you get married in a registry office, which I did, you don't say an, in England, you don't say... anything other than that you take this chap to be your husband, and you interpret that to be as you wish. So that's, entirely up to the pair of you. I think that these inflated ideas perhaps come with the old language of the church, and if you're going to do that well then, all hail to you... and er... presumably you mean it if you've gone there.
[speaker002:] There are people who come from from different cultures amongst this hundred who might want to say something about... erm, wedding ceremonies.
[speaker004:] [cough]... I got married twenty three years ago in China, well, we just invite er, invited er our friends, and er former school mates to ma, to my home and we didn't make any vow, er we... just gave a banquet to the friends, and er, in China people now can get married in many ways... and er... some foreigners have come to China to get married in a traditional Chinese way, and they have to... er, carry their bride in a sedan chair.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER] And their bride has to wear... er, all in red... and er... the bridegroo er groom has to wear a long costume with a... red big flowers in front i... aha... and then they get married and... there's erm band, the Chinese traditional band with drums and trumpets... blowing all the time and er, all the guests have a very nice time. And in China, usually, erm wedding is an important event in the family and an, when I got married I think my parents-in-law wo erm... felt erm more excited than my husband and [LAUGHTER] I []!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Well that's,tha I mean tha that's, a pretty interesting description of er... of a different kind of wedding, which is another one er another
[speaker005:] Well
[speaker002:] optional variation that you might
[speaker005:] well I got married in
[speaker002:] want to choose? Yes?
[speaker005:] Bu I meet a erm, a different oh, tribe in Saherli but I got married in England with my, though we make, this, I'd say, this man to be my wife forever, but when I got home, back home in Ingeria you know, we did it in a, a different way. We have er, my parents sat down with a the group of the family... there
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] you know, there's no vow there, but all we do is join hands together, share blessings to both of us, and no vow, we never make any vow but they made a blessing for us. The marriage will be successful... [whispering] and this one it is [].
[speaker002:] There.
[speaker006:] Well I'd, [cough], I come from Lebanon and I get married in here and I said the vows but I didn't understand, at that time I wasn't speaking English so
[speaker002:] Oh! Oh!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Oh yeah!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] That's one to remember, I didn't understand what I was saying! Yes?
[speaker007:] But in Lebanon we don't have vows, they have like kind of contract, and if the... if they broke the contract it's the bride and groo, the groom have to pay that amount of money for the... the bride, even if it was her fault.
[speaker005:] It happens in my country, when you break the marriage, I mean in my town, when you break th the marriage this sort of money will be paid wi then. Whe when you're to make
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] a er, but want to, want to do a wedding you pay a certain er amount of money then, then when you break the wedding you refund the money to your husband.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Yes, this is, this is, this [LAUGHTER] er [] Who's picking up Laura's point which is that you get all the contractual arrangements... er er done, but I mean it doesn't mean you can't have the ritual, be it dressed with, you know, er a long
[speaker008:] But
[speaker002:] red dress with
[speaker008:] my my complaint is that mostly
[speaker002:] pom-poms for the groom or
[speaker008:] it's, it's the pomp and circumstance and and the fluffy lace and everybody being really happy and... I know people think about it, but it's not seen as that, it's seen as... a a, a family society thing, it's not two people sitting
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker008:] down and saying right, we're gonna buy a house, we're gonna have kids, have we thought about how many kids we're gonna have? Have we thought about whether we want to have kids at all? Maybe those are the questions we should asking, rather than you know, do you take this man for your husband.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker009:] When you come from a big family, as I do, erm... yo you can have... any size of wedding as long as the right people are there, anybody gets excluded it's er... to be horrendous!
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] Starts with... you know, I haven't been invited... why I'm... and if you've got a big family, you really have to do it properly... and it, it's gonna cost!
[speaker002:] Well a variety of views and I think the only generalization I can make about weddings is that you can't generalize about weddings, some people think they're wonderful, some people are sceptical, people have done their own er variations on weddings. I haven't really asked you very many questions so I'll, I'll ask you a question which sets us up for a programme we might do in the next series, having discussed the wedding, next... the honeymoon! Here's the question. Is a honeymoon a good way to start a marriage? Button one for yes, and button two for no. You don't have to have had one to be able to comment on this. And, seventy seven people say yes, and twenty three people say no, and aren't you fascinated to know why they voted that way? You'll have to watch the next series. From us, here, goodnight. [closing music]