[speaker001:] Football! Let's talk about football! Just a boy's game? A good outlet for male aggression? A bad excuse for drunken hooliganism? A religion? All of the above? Or something completely different? [introduction music]
[speaker002:] I know what your thinking, there's enough football on the box already! Or maybe what have women got to say about football? I can just imagine! Well, I wonder if you can? Let's find out! Let me ask you this question first of all, do you like football? Button one for yes, and button two for no. Goodness knows there's enough of it around in Scotland! So do you like it since you have to be aware of it? Sixty one of you say yes! Thirty nine no! Who said no, and why? Why did you say no? Yes?
[speaker003:] Well I I think it's er... too rowdy! I er, and I don't think there's er, all that much intelligence in it! It's a physical game... and erm... i it seems to me that er... people should... er develop their brain a little more and play games er which have more... i interest for everyone, not just the people who like a good shout!
[speaker002:] Fair enough! Who else said no? Where are the no's? Yes?
[speaker004:] I think there's too much publicity over it! The big games are good to watch, they're quite exciting... but week after week you get the English divisions, some of the Scottish divisions and it's really quite boring! Personally!
[speaker002:] But you don't have to watch it!
[speaker004:] No, but when you switch on the telly on a Saturday afternoon there's football, football, football! Especially Sunday nights [LAUGHTER] too []!
[speaker002:] Right! So there's too much on television.
[speaker005:] . On Sunday, all afternoon... it's flipping football and it drives me crazy!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] There's far too much of it!
[speaker002:] There's other things on.
[speaker005:] I think it should be curtailed! You don't see enough tennis! But by God there's football!
[speaker002:] Aha! So it's, so other sports you like, there's just too much football?
[speaker005:] Well,t, to me there's too much football!
[speaker002:] Here.
[speaker006:] I think football seems to, to bring out the worst in a lot of people and that's the part of it that I don't like.
[speaker002:] When you say people?
[speaker006:] Well erm... the fans of football and, especially if it's like old games etcetera, when you see the results of... of the fights with them!
[speaker002:] So you don't mind the game... it's it's everything that goes with it?
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Or some of the things that go with it?
[speaker006:] Some of the things that go with
[speaker002:] Yep!
[speaker006:] it.
[speaker002:] Yep?
[speaker007:] I was going to say, you say you don't have to watch it, well you want to come and stay in my house!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Why?
[speaker007:] Because if football's on... it has to be watched! It's like a... a religion! Fi
[speaker002:] Who
[speaker007:] faithfully followed every week, hale, rain or shine! Stand in the stadium and watch it and then come back and watch the highlights on TV at night!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] Discuss if we should go out socially, er it becomes a kind of religion!
[speaker002:] Who, who is this who's watching it?
[speaker007:] Husband.
[speaker002:] Just him?
[speaker007:] Well, him and... virtually ninety nine percent of male population in Scotland, yeah!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] But not all in your front room?
[speaker007:] Hopefully not, no!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Okay. Yes?
[speaker008:] It gets worse when you've got a satellite television [LAUGHTER] and it's on up to, about five times a week! It's really quite... it can be a real bore!
[speaker002:] That's your situation?
[speaker008:] I'm afraid so, yes!
[speaker002:] Yeah. Yep!
[speaker008:] And I have a sister-in-law who used to play for a women's football team so she's very interested and a... as soon as there's a big game on, on the satellite they all come round and... it's sort of into the kitchen you can make the... the half time
[speaker002:] So it's not just the ninety nine percent of the male
[speaker008:] No!
[speaker002:] male Scot?
[speaker008:] No, both my sister-in-laws did play at one time for... Scottish women's football.
[speaker002:] Up there.
[speaker009:] Women should not play football! It's far too strenuous a game!
[speaker002:] Women shouldn't?
[speaker009:] Especially when the... a woman is childbearing, she could kicked in a womb, she could get kicked in the! Don't say they don't kick, they do! It's not a game for women!
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker010:] My husband made me wait while I was in labour... till a game finished!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]... [LAUGHTER]
[speaker010:] Until he'd... before he took me to hospital!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] But... how? Can we, can I, how he made, how did you
[speaker010:] It was my first baby and I was panicking and he said there was no need to panic!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker010:] There was time to watch this game!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker010:] Before we went up to Simpsons.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker001:] I must admit that I, one of the reasons I don't like football, I think it is in fact, it's probably a very, it is in fact a very nice game! A good game!
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But, them, the way that it's played now... is... it's not erm, it's not good to watch! There's too much... fouling! And that's one of the reasons that I don't like it! You seen grown men kicking and pulling jerseys and
[speaker002:] Yep!
[speaker001:] I mean it's, I think it's quite ridiculous really!
[speaker002:] Yep! Yep! I dislike, like the bigotry it brings out in the game! It really, it's... it shouldn't be! It used to be a family sport here, father and son and... mother even went with them! But the bigotry now... wastes the game! It really does! Okay! So it dominates our screens, it dominates our man, it's a religion, it encourages bigotry... it encourages to neglect their se, their er domestic duties... plenty of reasons for not liking football! Now, sixty one of you said you liked it and you've been meekly listening to this wha er how would you reply to, to all those various views? Yes?
[speaker003:] I disagree! I find it one of the fastest most exciting games about! I exist with a... primary school... football team and... th... the two skills that they're able to develop, the powers of concentration and hopefully a sense of fair play. Er, the involvement of parents er... in the school life too. I like football and I find all the other views I've heard all a bit negative! If you don't like to watch it on television there is the switch off!
[speaker002:] Depends who's in control of the switch though doesn't it? Yes?
[speaker004:] Well I would just like to say I I find football an absolutely beautiful game!
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] If played properly, it's poetry in motion! And as the lady down here said, if the ladies don't like it, switch it off! If I had the chance I'd watch it twenty four hours a day!
[speaker002:] Well let's find bit, a ba ba a bit, find out a bit more about, about the people here. Let me ask you a couple of questions. Do you go to football matches? Button one for yes and button two for no. And... out of this hundred... thirty six of the, presumably of the sixty one who like football go. I don't suppose any of those thirty six are dragged along reluctantly or or or are you? Well we'll maybe come to that. I expect some people watching might think that wo wo football is a boy's game, rather than a girl's game, but of course that isn't the tradition is it?
[speaker005:] I think it's a great game! Football for women... and men!
[speaker002:] Now you're speaking from experience aren't you?
[speaker005:] Yes. I played football for, when I was ten year old! But, I don't go to football now, I watch the television cos I'm seventy three now, but it never any harm!
[speaker002:] Some people say it's not very good for women to play football
[speaker005:] That's a lot of rubbish!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Well tell me what's good about football for women?
[speaker005:] Because it's a good sport!
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] There's a, you could do a lot worse things that play football!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Well I admi, probably I do, but
[speaker005:] And
[speaker002:] I don't play football!
[speaker005:] [LAUGHTER] there's []
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] So how did you get into the game sixty three years ago?
[speaker005:] Well... I was born in Rietling
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker005:] and... I played football in the street with the boys cos you had nothing else to do, you had nowhere else to go... in my time! Right!
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] So, I played this and I taught myself... and I had, I played at England and all over for oth, a ladies team, played a on a man's team and er, the we, the west and that,. But, the men didn't play you rough or anything but we had some good games!
[speaker002:] What you played against the men?
[speaker005:] Aye, well I played against men, but, but I mean it's not the same. I mean, they... the men are more stronger and that... but I've run around a couple of them... and I've lo
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] not lost a heat! And put it that way!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Now ther, so the there's a veteran footballer and there ar, I know there are other footballers among,whe where are the other footballers who are here? Identify yourselves! Yes? Yo you've played haven't you? Who
[speaker006:] Aye.
[speaker002:] do you play with?
[speaker006:] Er, I play with Clyde Ladies.
[speaker002:] Since when? And how did you get into it?
[speaker006:] I can't really answer how I got into it, me, I got three big brothers so, maybe that's got part to do with it. Erm... I've played with Clyde Ladies for about... five years... but previously I played with Stewarton. Er... I played the game for a good number of years as well. I wouldn't agree with everybody's saying, it's a physical game.
[speaker002:] What would you say?
[speaker006:] It's a sport that's really enjoyable, I mean... if you want to play you play it! If you don't, fair enough you sports you want!
[speaker002:] Are there good opportunities for women to play football if they want to?
[speaker006:] I cannot answer that!
[speaker002:] Do you think there's a prejudice against women playing football or do you think it's easy fo for women to play football?
[speaker006:] It is easy for them to play football, it's like other sports but... I mean, people say that... sports is nay for women! But that's not true! If you want to do it, you do it!
[speaker007:] The difference is that football isn't really encouraged at schools... cos
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] I played football after school but was never encouraged to play it... erm, within the school programme, within P E or anything, it was hockey or netball... and women just aren't encouraged at all to play football!
[speaker002:] Up there.
[speaker008:] Yeah, well my local schools the girls say there's a football team and they've done quite well through to the finals so it is en encouraged in... in local school of mine.
[speaker002:] Yep! There?
[speaker009:] In some places abroad they have the women playing football before the actual big games which... it would be helpful if it was here. I think I would maybe go to a match if the women played... a wee game before... the men came on. I
[speaker002:] And
[speaker009:] think it's Milan that actually do that.
[speaker002:] Would you watch fo women fo, I mean given the
[speaker009:] I would! Yes!
[speaker002:] And what about th the woman beside you who who's television is on a lot... and it's football? Would yo, would you watch it if it was women playing?
[speaker007:] Possibly not because I've grown to dislike the game.
[speaker002:] Aha. Aha. It is a case isn't it, that if you want to be a er... a professional woman footballer, certainly there's more opportunities on the continent... than there are in Britain, is, is is is that the case? Yes?
[speaker010:] You get erm twenty four... affiliated clubs women's football in Scotland, giving you three divisions... so it's quite widespread. Erm, I work for Scottish Women's Football and the plans we have for this year... erm, shall hopefully encourage more women to come into the sport. It's a good sport for women to play in... and there's lots of developments... going on in the sport and we would like to go into the under sixteens and the under twelves. So hopefully, erm... if any ladies are interested in a couple of years, their children, and even themselves if they want to come along and play.
[speaker002:] Now, am am I the only person to whom a lot of this is news? I mean, it's partly I suppose because I don't watch a lot of football, but... women's football is not generally, it's occasionally you get an article in the press and it's seen as a kind of freakish thing! It's very unusual! Look, look women are doing it too! And yet, as er... as Linda said women have been playing football for the last seventy, and before that, I mean op, throughout the century women have been playing football! But it's never really taken off in this country!
[speaker010:] Well, this is a problem we have... basically because again, your your media etcetera... is male dominated... erm... everything we come across... in in our line is male dominated so we have got to break down these barriers and it isn't easy to do! Erm... we have quite a few helpful people within the sport, but we could do with a lot more friends.
[speaker002:] Okay. Yes?
[speaker001:] I and in Glasgow and... we attempted to break some of the barriers you're talking about by holding a girl's week and part of the girl's was to run a five-a-side tournament and we were also breaking down territorial barriers, we had girls from different housing schemes within the east end of Glasgow, but I feel the opportunities don't exist! We did that and they did self defence as well as five-a-side football, but the opportunities aren't there for them! There's one young I work with... who can't afford to be a member of Clydebank... football, Ladies, Women's Football Club, she's seventeen, she's on bridging allowance, she hasn't got the money to pay the, the six pound a week it would cost her!
[speaker002:] Mm. Mm.
[speaker001:] So I I feel that... that women are very restricted!
[speaker002:] Well how do young boys manage to... to find the six quid a week it takes to
[speaker001:] Because there in more er, they they play within the school system, there
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] are, there are more clubs... youth clubs promote it.
[speaker002:] Down there. Yes? You had your hand up? I work for Team Sport Scotland and part of my reignement is erm coordinator for women and girl's football... and I find that with the equal opportunities policies of many of the education regions now that more football is being played in primary and in secondary school... and the district councils I go to visit... I would say that the majority of them are... definitely wanting to put money into promoting girl's and women's football. What about the media problem? I mean why why why do you think there isn't more... Channel four, I know, ran some women's football er... recently but th th, they haven't kept it up very regularly but wh why why is that? I mean is it simply because men dominate the schedules? Is there an audience for... for women's football out there? How many of you would watch it? In fact, maybe I should ask you that question? If there there was women's football on television would you watch it? Button one for yes, and button two for no.... Now, I wonder if there are advertisers and schedulers, well I know there are advertiser and schedulers watching out there! Sixty two of you have said yes!
[speaker003:] There's nowhere that you see anywhere advertising
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] where the games are getting played or... I've never seen it in a paper that I've picked up in the morning, it's never been in it!
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] Don't you think the S F A... could help a lot more?
[speaker002:] Well!
[speaker004:] Promoting it... financing it... from the.
[speaker002:] I've a feeling you've put your finger on a hedgehog there! Why doesn't the S F A give more support to the S W F A, can I ask you that?
[speaker005:] Er, yes you can ask me that. I think if you ask the S F A, er er at the moment we have currently very good relationships with the S F A... we're not affiliated to them, we're rec, we're recognised by them.
[speaker002:] Would you like to be affiliated?
[speaker005:] I don't know if we'd like to be affiliated. We do have erm... slight autonomy with the sport then
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker005:] erm, which is maybe a good thing to have. It would depend on the benefits you get that come with affiliation, and I'm not sure what the benefits are.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker006:] The only way forward for Scottish women's football is to become affiliated to the S F A... and I can remember back as far, as far back as nineteen seventy one when we pushed for that... and agreed to recognise us. Now, the only way we can go forward and progress is to take... the professionals' advice... and coaching, we need coaching... coaching for the kids.
[speaker002:] And how's that gonna be achieved?
[speaker006:] Th, they just need to, to think about the game. Aha.
[speaker002:] Be a bit more imaginative? Yes! I understand that are
[speaker006:] Mm mm.
[speaker002:] a lot of women who are enthusiastic. Yes?
[speaker005:] Well it was, we started years ago!
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker005:] I mean there's... would recognise us, they would no of gave you ball!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] All don, so miserable! And... and the write up in one of the papers... well I was... well I'd to tell that guy if he's watching I can ya nip!
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker007:] I think men don't like women to play football. Men have got this... thing, that they think it's their game and... they just don't want women involved! They wouldn't watch women's football, I don't think, if it was on
[speaker002:] Mm mm.
[speaker007:] television.
[speaker001:] I do think we should encourage more from a very young age when children are in school so that
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] young children are encouraged to play football when they are
[speaker002:] But that seems to be happening. It's seems to happen to i
[speaker001:] Not
[speaker002:] I mean it seems to be available for youngsters but afterwards
[speaker001:] Not as often as one would like it to be.
[speaker002:] Not as often as you would like?
[speaker001:] They could do more after school.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker007:] The er... in response to your question about Scotland, I mean I think
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] perhaps we have to look at the societal thing... in that there's something very macho... seen as macho about football in Scotland which is... stand on the terraces with a short sleeve shirt in... zero degrees and having someone urinate down your leg and
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] sort of assume that's a good Saturday afternoon's... entertainment!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] Seriously, I mean... people, I'm sure here have seen
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker007:] people going to football matches... and there is this very macho attitude that
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] football belongs to men. If we were sitting here just now debating tennis, or
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] volleyball... badminton, you know there's women's tennis... men's tennis... women's volleyball, men's volleyball
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] there's no issue! The minute you mention football there's an issue! Why? No sport belongs to any one sex!
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker008:] Right, I'm very involved in... women's hockey
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker008:] and er, I think until women's football... take it on board all the way... erm, they're not really gonna stand up with the men... they have to become, referees, they have to become coaches, and more and more of these people erm, taking responsibility. I go along and watch women's football and get really infuriated to see a man out there refereeing the game, and often in a very condescending manner! Instead of carding someone he'll put his arm round her and say... [whispering] Don't! It's not very nice to do that []! Don't do that again!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker008:] And I think that's really important... that it stands up
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker008:] on it's own.
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker008:] And I think, similarly, you have to be very careful about having women's games before men's games... because
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker008:] sometimes the women is... game, is seen as a warm up for the
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker008:] man's game! And it's only a bit of entertainment, and we must... really stand up and say... this is our game... and, it belongs to us!
[speaker002:] Up there.
[speaker009:] Erm, just to go back a wee bit to the thing about th the image and and... the fight that we have on our hands er, to to actually break into the media, I don't, I think people underestimate the control an and er... the feeling that men have that it's their game and we're not gonna take it away from them! It's as if it's one of the bastions of of male power! I mean, we we had, for instance, at th... I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but the Tennants sixes were, were on recently, there was an international match at the half time between, er Scotland and England which was... was a really good game! And we had, we had been invited to take part in that and it was really good publicity... and, it wasn't even mentioned... on on the channel that showed those... th those games! But, we didn't even... nobody even said that there actually, game had actually taken part
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker008:] never mind, showed a snippet of it within the Tennants sixes.
[speaker009:] A lot of women actually prefer to watch... play football
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker009:] golf, tennis. I mean, I do myself. I'd rather watch men play tennis than I would women! And a lot of women feel the same. A lot of friends and my family, they all prefer watching men's games.
[speaker002:] Now, I think you're quite bold to say that in this company!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker009:] [LAUGHTER] I know []!
[speaker002:] Does anybody agree with that view?
[speaker001:] Yes! Yes. Aha.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker010:] I'd, I would rather watch Davie Cooper play football any day!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker010:] Than er... some of the females, because he's got skill! That's what
[speaker002:] Mm mm.
[speaker010:] it is, you see!
[speaker001:] Aha. I played it
[speaker010:] Er
[speaker001:] ! [LAUGHTER] I think, to change the subject slightly to the managerial type.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] In the nineteen seventies I ran a school primary team, and at that time a woman refereeing football was... quite a novelty.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] And, it was the attitude of the other men going to a, play another school, I came across this man who asked me who the referee was on that particular day? And I said it was me, to be met with, what the bleep, bleep, bleep do you know about football!
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] And, I pointed out that both teams would suffer equally!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] And, I got the great accolade the following season when he said, well you're not as bad as I thought you would be! [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Congratulations Beth!
[speaker001:] Can I just say... er, in in primary schools you've got to catch the children young, but you never hear of any of the mothers taking the football teams... it's always one of the fathers! I think they like to hold that position that they're doing their bit for the school. I remember being at primary school and the boys went to play football... and you sat in the corner playing... talking... or the boys played football and the girls, would you believe it, got sex education! [LAUGHTER] There's one for you! If that's not discrimination, what is?
[speaker002:] And what happened when the boys got sex education, or didn't they?
[speaker001:] They didn't! They didn't! We got put into this wee room, sit down! [LAUGHTER] We'll tell you all, we used to look out the window and the boys would be playing football! No I've, things have changed since then.
[speaker002:] Yes? Er, nobody's mentioned the religious bias yet, and I don't know how strong it is in Edinburgh, but in, in Glasgow it is... and if people are religiously biased they are ve, very often biased a about other things... and I da, I think people should adopt an attitude of live and let live! If women Mhm. want to run about a muddy field and think it's fun... they should do so! I I do, I don't really see why any one person should tell another... what it can and cannot do! Mm. But I think you'll find it difficult i in er... Scotland with men because er... er er, they are, and same as the North of England, they are rather... erm... er er er, er difficult about, about women coming in to do anything aren't they? I, I remember being stared at because I was wearing trousers when I came to live in Scotland forty four years ago! Yes? Yes, er yes?
[speaker003:] I wonder if it's not the game of football that's a problem, but the attitude of... many of the people involved.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] I teach physical education erm, in the primary schools in Edinburgh, and because of the equal opportunities, obviously I teach football to primary girls and boys, but I feel that the girls are not getting the opportunity
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] to be again, learning about football for the stage that they are at. Consequently, they're always coming in a bit behind the boys because the boys have been playing for a bit longer, and I think it's very important that if girls are being offered the opportunity that the opportunity is good for them, and that it's not going to put them off the game of football because they're always in the position where the boys consider themselves a bit better. And I see it as part of my problem in education is to erm, change the attitudes of the... the boys who are, you know, at a very young, and I'll be sorry to think that in ten years time they would still be having erm... the rather arrogant attitudes that they have!
[speaker004:] I think it's sort of accepted that men need their... leisure time... you know, it's vital to them to either get out to the pub or... get their leisure time and it's women that's considered... they don't need it, they're... you know, I don't think it's se se se, considered as important.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker001:] I think it's often thought of as a way of men getting rid of their aggression... and if they can go out there on a Saturday and shout and ball and scream, then that's fine! And somehow that's okay, and women don't need this! Which I obviously don't agree with, I think they do an outlet just as much and I think that's where sport comes for them.
[speaker002:] Mm mm. Yes?
[speaker005:] Not maybe because like the women have er got young families, they're having to look after the families, maybe, on a Saturday afternoon while their husband goes away.
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker005:] Alright, I mean there's... I think we've got more responsibilities where the husband tends to be able to go away and do that a lot easier than what a woman would be able to do. Maybe child care's the ma, the main thing.
[speaker002:] Yeah. No no chance of a woman playing football while her
[speaker001:] Mm.
[speaker002:] while her husband
[speaker005:] Yeah, if she's got a young family, I mean, nine times out of ten it's her that's got to watch them rather than saying to the husband, oh I'm off to play football dear!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker005:] See you later!
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] Do you see the husband washing a strip? My friend plays for the United and her husband polishes up her boots on a Saturday night!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker006:] He also watches her daughter... and er... he's quite keen to come along and watch her play. And I think that's where you can start getting the males in the family and just say
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker006:] it can start for there.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker006:] It can grow. They can get their friends interested
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker006:] and take off from there.
[speaker002:] I mean supposing women's football did get more support and i wen and i it did become more widespread, more popular at every level, there was time, the resources to do it, do you think the things that people complained about football at the top of this programme... er, the bigotry, the aggression, the rowdiness, do you think they would begin to overwhelm women's football in the way that some of you think they've overwhelmed men's football? What do you think? Yes?
[speaker007:] I think we're being kind of unfair when it comes to football pa fans on the terraces because the majority of people who go and watch football are not hooligans.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] You know... but they're branded as hooligans because they go and watch the sport. Now it is a sport, and it is a skilled game... you know, and I think... women can play it just as well as men, or against men... and... you know, you can have your fans who are very strong for your women's team tha just as much as the men, but yet, would they also be branded as hooligans because they go along and stand on the terraces and shout for the girls?
[speaker002:] Fair point! Yes?
[speaker007:] I work in a football environment and erm... I'm listening to the comments about rowdyism and bigotry in football. We erm... at Dunfermline Athletic Football Club, as in a lot of other erm premiere and first division clubs... specifically develop family enclosure areas for women to come along with their husbands and
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] their children, and they've proved very, very successful! One of the few areas that we sell out on most match days, and there's facilities for men and women and we actively develop these areas. We actively develop the toilet areas, the canteen facilities so that women are not left at home on a Saturday, that they can come together on a Saturday with their husbands and boyfriends and watch the game.
[speaker001:] All the discussion seems to show that the same attitudes are coming through in society. Whenever women begin anything it's, it's horrifying and shocking to begin with... and as more and more women do it... more and more people accept it, whether men or women. But I think one of the things that men are afraid of is that when women get into the things the attitudes change, as we were saying about bigotry and religion and so on with football, I don't think that men want that because this is the perfect club they can enjoy and indulge all that, but if women really get into it the thing will change as society does.
[speaker002:] Splendid! On which note we shall finish! It's been a very revealing programme for me and I hope for you. Sixty one of these hundred women like foo football, sixty two would watch it if there was more of it on television. I hope you'll join us again. Goodbye! [closing music]