[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Erm can I also introduce you to the fact there erm Maureen I will explain briefly about er Maureen's presence here. Longmans, the well-known publishers are producing something called the spoken corpus which is er a... a record of the way in which English is used.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Erm which Yes... erm the... the aim of the exercise is to record several millions of words of spoken English and they translate them into erm a work
[Geoff:] I bet she's a friend of yours.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] and are translated into a work for academic and study for the purpose of general knowledge about the English language. Erm I took the liberty of saying yes to Maureen to come along and record the language debate. I must stop using my words so carefully.
[Geoff:] Yes
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] And erm
[speaker002:] Shh
[Roger:] it is anonymous. It's merely recording the words we use are taken down on a... scrap of paper context I don't but used. The the there is nothing
[Geoff:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] and... erm and erm I would really formally ask the board if, if there is any objection to our deliberations being recorded and taken down and... used for another purpose.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] If there is anything that comes up and one feels sensitive about then... then we can ask for them to switch the machine off.... Maureen...
[speaker002:] Okay? Thank you. If I could just put it over here because it'll be... I think I, I'm a little bit far away over there. Would that be okay? Yes. Erm I can possibly...
[Susie:] Yeah, put it near Roger, he does most of the talking.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well I did gather that. If if I co, if I could just put it... there
[Roger:] Right.... It doesn't record does it?
[speaker002:] Mm?
[Roger:] It doesn't record nods does it?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] No there's no camera.
[Roger:] Right.
[speaker002:] Right. And if I sit here tape runs out I'll see it and click.
[Roger:] Right.
[speaker002:] It's running now. Thank you.
[Roger:] Well we don't have to pay attention to it and er it's not necessary to record every word is it? You want a selection of things and
[speaker002:] We'll just pull out
[Roger:] We don't have to speak at it or anything.
[speaker002:] No, not at all.
[Roger:] No, no. No.... Right. To the agenda. Erm apologies for absence. Erm... er... er Mrs, Jackie is not coming. Er I think he's in London he said. Or at the metro centre I'm not sure which.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Somewhere down south anyway.... Anybody else? No?... Oh yes, yes, sent his apologies, right.... Er minutes of the previous board meeting.... The sixth of May.... Take them matters arising that aren't on the agenda.... Minute by minute.... So if anybody has anything they wish to raise perhaps they could raise it as I mention the minute.... Ten ninety two... eleven ninety two... twelve ninety two... Well can I just say that the the process of replacing er people on maternity leave is progressing. Andrew has been appointed the temporary administrator. He came from the er amongst other things Inland Revenue and er... very welcome addition to staff and er has quite a, a good grasp of many... er sort of national bodies and institutions and so on and is very helpful, and is settling in very well and well-liked. Erm the other posts... interviews are progressing. We have made as we intended to do, if you remember we er advertised widely in accordance with our equal opportunities policy, er for that post but also I think in accordance with equal opportunity we wanted to give people the er chance to develop their range of skills internally for some of the er... lower grade posts and therefore er initially... the other posts er have been advertised internally and we filled the temporary er assistant administration erm... post er internally. Er that is Deborah who is er works in reception. Erm... and we are now moving on to fill the senior customer services post. Er we did... erm er go through the selection procedure with internal candidates but were unable to appoint, and so therefore are advertising that in the press in the normal way er although both candidates have been told that they may reapply. Erm and then there's, there will be obviously a knock on effect in erm depending on who's appointed. And that's proceeding according to plan....
[speaker002:] No more pregnancies to report?
[Roger:] Not as yet, no.... Three's quite enough.... Erm minute... thirteen ninety two
[speaker002:] Twelve three actually
[Roger:] I just did twelve ninety two.
[speaker002:] I see.
[Roger:] There weren't, you want, yes?
[speaker002:] that one.
[Roger:] Oh yes. Right so twelve three er just to report that Channel Four have actually er renewed their sponsorship for the film festival yet again. Er
[speaker002:] still got to be there for it.
[Roger:] Well, but they did say in their letter
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] that this will be the last year because er from next year... well irrespective of whether they're sequestered... I hope our sponsorship money won't be sequestered with it but
[speaker002:] That's a good word to use.
[Roger:] It is isn't it? Yes. We use it a lot in these meetings don't we?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Er [LAUGHTER] that irrespective of their se sequestration [LAUGHTER] and other ations erm... or isms... er they are going to sponsor us this year but not in future.... And erm the only other outstanding sponsor from last year was Northern Rock and that has been a bit of a qu a problem because... er it's, we haven't had a closing gala event which might attract them but... just recently erm Paul who as you know performed last year with his band so er... well er... is, had rang me and said that they are doing something in Venice and they could in fact take the boat to Hull rather than to Dover and bring it here and I'm, so I'm... working on the assumption that we might have that. It's a film called Seventh Heaven which is about a love affair in the sewers in nineteen twenty seven. Sewers of Paris, incidentally, in nineteen twenty seven.
[speaker002:] Oh that's alright then. [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] And it's wonderfully, wonderfully romantic and I think therefore may suit er the board and guests of Northern Rock... er very well. Er and hopefully I can attract them to that. We'll have to see if we can or not. I don't know.
[speaker002:] If not we'll try Northumbria Water.
[Roger:] Yes [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] good idea.... Thank you. Erm... thirteen... one.... Th there isn't a erm a note on this one. Do, do you want to discuss this now or later?
[speaker002:] Well... we
[Roger:] Under attendance report?
[speaker002:] well I, yes. Come to on that one.
[Roger:] Right.. Thirteen two... fourteen one... fourteen two... which you're reporting on later.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[Roger:] Fourteen three.... Yes I erm... I... would like to point out that we are looking er very closely at the sales and I've just had a report on my desk from the head of finance which is the beginning of the discussions in the management team on er... the sales erm and relation of loss of sales to profit and so on and the... now we, the shop is in that position we've had time t we have more time to assess how things are working out. We shall be analyzing that and I shall be reporting back to you in due course.... Fifteen... sixteen one... will you be reporting on anything here?
[speaker002:] No....
[Roger:] Later on?
[Geoff:] Erm...
[Roger:] anything you want to...?
[Geoff:] Don't think so. Erm... yes, there is one thing there. Not later on, I I'd like to do it now. Estimates were sought to replace the refreshment counter and erm... indeed we went ahead with one of the estimates and the firm then went bankrupt in the meantime which erm... I imagine is something Colin that you're well used to.
[Colin:] Occupational hazard these days.
[Geoff:] Er so there will be er... a loss to us there of about three hundred pounds because erm... we... were asking for something to be made and therefore I think... I would say quite rightly... but in view of this experience perhaps never again, er made some advance contribution, you know to the cost or made some, gave some money in advance... blah blah blah. That erm... it might be wise or advisable, I'd be interested to hear your views Colin and others perhaps even council... procedures, you know on, on how far you can go in checking out... er... because I mean, you know... you get something which tells you what was happening three weeks ago. And actually we've had a very full report from the auditors which makes extremely interesting and somewhat hilarious reading. I suppose er... thank goodness we didn't er invest any... further money in their operation. But I mean really... if the auditors don't put, point out some of these things... like the level of directors' salaries and the level of erm ongoing deficit and blah blah blah which now come to light, I don't see really how we can ever hope to discover them. But it
[speaker002:] Well I mean it it... I mean it happened in circles in, in the Oh yes I wasn't er in the civic centre there was, wasn't there a case where... leisure services... bought er terribly [LAUGHTER] It's a touchy subject that. Oh right. It was some such very similar situation but it involved a lot more money than you've lost. I hope I I er yes. In in that connection I think perhaps what we could usefully say [LAUGHTER] just by way of comparison for rough guidance that there is a regulation or or something like that which says, if I remember rightly, that... erm... er... payments must not be made for either services or goods not supplied... above a figure of two thousand pounds without er being taken to committee first. Mhm. council discretion. So there is a check built in to the, to the council procedures. Which you Mm. you might like to think of. Not the figure of two thousand I suspect Yes. but a figure appropriate amount. Well we do have in front of us don't we, the paper Mm. about... the financial controls and erm....... But erm... It's it's an irrevocable situation is it? Presumably... the materials that were bought not... are still there. The receiver's got to dispose of them at some stage. Mm. Did the assets all disappear?...
[Geoff:] Er without going back to the report I have no i I I can't remember the... the fine details. I mean you know... I'm just reporting to you er I mean I don't think it's worth
[speaker002:] list of creditors.
[Geoff:] considerable discussion.
[speaker002:] We'll go on the list of creditors and if there happens to be any payment at the end of the day you will
[Geoff:] That's right.
[speaker002:] get a proportion of it.
[Geoff:] Yes.
[speaker002:] I doubt whether there'll be penny in the pound.
[Geoff:] There won't be... secure creditors like banks and so on will get
[speaker002:] The only thing I would say is never pay for anything in advance, particularly construction.
[Geoff:] Yes.... Mm.
[speaker002:] And especially in the current climate.
[Geoff:] Mm.
[speaker002:] And if they ask you to it probably means they're in trouble anyway.
[Geoff:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Geoff:] Yes I think that's wise advice.
[Roger:] Yes.
[Geoff:] Well I mean... you know
[Roger:] Well the minutes perhaps you'll you'll... we will pop that on to our comments and others.... Erm just briefly erm the adjustments to the toilet for the disabled... and the
[Geoff:] Yes they've all been done. However, talking of fascia... you know I mean this is er... we could make it er something else then happened which is a lorry went into it. So er... and ripped off some letters blah blah blah, so that's ongoing, you know it's going to be replaced and the er people who did it admitted liability... and so forth.
[Roger:] You will notice we are now the Tynes Tynesid inema. No joke
[Geoff:] Something or other
[speaker002:] Is that project now finished or does this retain the
[Geoff:] Yes... it is apparently, yes.... And so therefore I think it would be appropriate er... to deliver to you the report of Summers and Partners... for your information.
[Roger:] Yes, thank you. We'll have that for the next meeting.... Yeah... Erm sixteen two... we will be discussing that... draft. Sixteen three... sixteen four.... What did you decide?...
[Geoff:] Well, I decided really, or we decided I suppose to er link it to the festival. Er and therefore erm... I think we'd like to... to some degree wait and see a bit still because er... I think that... you know economic circumstances of this particular moment mean that we may... just have to consider that further of seeing how... things progress really between now and October. I certainly don't think with the sort of product we have at the moment that there will be any possibility of raising prices before then because I mean, you know, there just aren't any... really films which are going to grab people. Er but at the festival it is an appropriate moment. Whether we would go to the full two fifty I think will have to be... you know we'll have to wait till nearer the time....
[Roger:] Right. Erm... can I... have the proposal that that was a correct record of our deliberations please? Thank you John. A seconder?... Thank you Susie.... Agreed?... report.
[Peter:] I wonder if we could ask we could take the other reports first... chair? Er attendance
[Roger:] Yes
[Peter:] report and [cough] the management accounts because there are a number of things which have since, since these... minutes er completed and we'd like to bring up in the report but er... I think that we'd be... as well to look at the
[Roger:] I have no objection....
[Peter:] And if we took the attendance report first, in relation to that then we can look at the... material presented in the way to which you're accustomed. But... in response and how fortuitous that er Colin is with us today
[Colin:] [LAUGHTER]
[Peter:] in response to er particularly Colin but other people's requests for... ah Hello, yes. Er...
[speaker002:] I've just missed hearing my name taken in vain.
[Peter:] Again?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[Peter:] Will you be able to share papers because er... erm and therefore... those papers which we're about to discuss, you had your admissions if you brought your papers with you... yes? Sorry I'm just, can I just sort this out before I go any further?
[Roger:] Yes.
[Peter:] Admission reports you had in the papers sent to you. Well... Roger. And what I'm saying is we're just reversing the... we're going to do the attendance report, financial report and then the chief executive's report because there are a number of issues which I'd like to raise within that. And, in respect of the admissions report, er as you will recall er Colin and others thought that perhaps more information might be useful or would like er to see different ways in which the computer reports er on the er... information
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[Peter:] erm... and yes, sorry er
[speaker002:] yes.
[Peter:] and I'm therefore gonna hand round these... wodges of alternative... erm... material.
[speaker002:] I've got one of those
[Peter:] You can see on the front what is on offer. They need to go right round. And I wonder John, yes.... Right
[speaker002:] That's right, if you send it right round. a copy. Right, we're alright. You want some. There we are. Susie hasn't got one.
[Roger:] I wonder John if you would just like to introduce er Jenny to the board.
[John:] Well Jenny is my colleague under the new department of published and broadcast arts. Joined on the first of June and is each other initially to and also as a general of what goes on. And then we are to allocate between us so responsibility.
[Roger:] Jenny you're very welcome.... And and we... yes, I'm not sure whether we're published or broadcast, I think we're probably narrowcast aren't we?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Never mind.... Well I hope fairly broad on these figures but er... So what we have here er as I understand it, is a... broad series of options
[Peter:] Yes.
[Roger:] as to the information... that can be produced by our computer.... And really... erm it's a question of what... board members would find the most useful and erm... and...
[Peter:] That's right. On the front of those options which are numbered in red there is a break er there is an in you know explanation of what is there.... Clearly any or all of these are possible but erm... er... naturally you would understand that if you had them daily by film you would be having... you know ninety pieces of paper er... and clearly that may not be appropriate at times... well times, you know hundreds by the looks of it now but usually times ten at least. Erm... and any of these things could of course be brought to a meeting to be referred to. Erm the thing which we keep daily is number six, is it? Number six which is the thing that we... have to look at. Er this is the end of the day report and that we keep in a file and they, they could be brought. And that would give you all the information... erm on a daily basis which could be referred to erm... performance by performance. What you have now is an extract if you like. In other words it's a new... it's something which is not done directly from the computer but which is using information the computer provides. It then erm... is made up into this chart by somebody. I would like if possible not to do that any more, cos clearly that is just a duplication of material already elsewhere available. And if it were possible for you to decide that one of these... options, one to eight, were to suit your regular and usual purposes... at these meetings for general discussion then that obviously would be both a saving in erm time and labour and is one of the reasons why one installs computerized equipment so that you don't er then have to do it all manually as well.... Obviously I would be very... loathe to agree to have to now provide different information again other than that which is... going to be readily... er available through the computers. But of course could do so if you so wished....
[speaker002:] It doesn't tell us how tall individual
[Peter:] No. I was worried about that and er... I think that's because it's a German system and everyone is assumed to be over six feet anyway or... six feet wide or something....
[speaker002:] whether this stuff is available on retrieval because... it seems to me what really matters are the trends. Er I don't think one would ever have the stomach to go through all the detail. And even looking at the figures we get now, I mean others here will take a great deal of interest, one's interested in knowing where you're going and what's, you're looking at those figures yourself anyway. I would expect to get the broad picture and highlights and examples of. And that's what I would have thought was proper for the board to know about. I think beyond that you're getting to very detailed analysis which will take a lot of time, either yours or ours. And I would, I would, I would erm give the minimum and preferably use your own references. I think if you were to use another sheet altogether it would be... for me at least unnecessary work.
[Peter:] I think first of all we have to satisfy ourselves don't we that we're... erm fulfilling our cultural obligations... cultural policy. Erm given that that is the case, what is, what is the next thing that we... we need to know? Are we making the most... of the films that we show? Are people... er responding to good films? Er, one of the things it won't tell you on here, whether it's a blazing hot day, whether there's snow on the ground or whether it's just pouring, dull and people... are coming along. So there's, there are a number of variables which we, we will never know about.... But I think Colin your main concern wasn't it that perhaps we weren't... hitting the right slots and...?
[speaker002:] Use of plant I think was one of the things you were concerned about?
[Colin:] Sorry?
[speaker002:] Use of plant I think really, wasn't it? One of the things.
[Colin:] Er er... it was where break even points were. And what level of attendance was required to actually break even on a performance. And I don't wish to know if we've failed to break even on one occasion or whatever but the thing is... how often are we failing to break even. And... looking at that in relation to cultural policy. Now is there a connection or isn't there a connection? The other thing that concerned me was particular slots which don't seem to ever produce much in the way of attendance or revenue. And whether we had to keep running those slots. And... I agree I don't want to wade through everything but I, I think we need to lay down management information criteria, and only receive information if it's necessary on, on those headings. I E do we need to know that... the trend is changing or do we need to know the particular slots where we get non performance. And I appreciate and I mean I've discussed with you the, the complications or... you've got to keep open certain hours because you've got a catering facility and you've got certain members of staff and you've got to keep projectionists occupied etcetera. But... it did, just my, my... quick sieve every time we got these there always appeared to be a slot... where it didn't seem to me to be worth being open and and operating
[Peter:] Mm.
[Colin:] because it was such a disaster every time. And... while you were, while you were using a film which you had in anyway for the next day's performance and putting in that slot
[Peter:] Mhm.
[Colin:] it was still costing to stay open and operate.
[Peter:] Yes.
[Colin:] Er I mean they're the kinds of things I'm interested in knowing. I don't want to know the, the... intricate de well... sometimes I personally do, I'm interested. But I wouldn't have thought everybody... would, would want to wade through it at all times. I I'd like er to personally take this away and have a think about it.
[Peter:] Mm.
[Colin:] There's a lot of, there's a lot to absorb here and er... I wouldn't want to make an immediate reaction.
[Roger:] Yes, I I... I I've had these for a relatively short period of time. Erm my, I haven't had the time to really absorb what is in them and obviously the board would feel the same. Erm... perhaps if, it might be useful if... er members took it away?... And thought about it. If they had the opportunity of er... looking at it, seeing what there is to be learned. Er if there were holes in the information or whether... really whatever... board members... feel and erm we can consider it at the next meeting.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Peter:] Yes.
[Roger:] It's obviously not, not of of er... not of a great pressing... not a very pressing matter. It's something which we can... have the luxury of considering.
[speaker002:] just following what, what I raised earlier on chairman. Is it possible, supposing you decide you want to have a look and see how well the two o'clock showing if there is one as such
[Roger:] Mhm Mhm.
[speaker002:] Can that be summed, can you... can it do bars back analysis
[Peter:] Erm
[speaker002:] from tapes or whatever it is you hold on.
[Peter:] Oh we do hold the information. I would need to check with the... erm... er computer manager... you know which fields are takeable, you know how, I don't know if you know computer re how computer records are stored but every piece of information like erm the admission figure, the title, the distributor will be a field and I presume if er any information like the time is in a separate field then you would be able to have a report by fields. If you understand that.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Peter:] Erm so therefore I would say... in er theory... er my understanding would be that yes we could know whatever... you wanted to know about particular fields like every two o'clock over a period of a year or whatever.... Erm... I couldn't er you'd, I'd need warning of that of course.
[speaker002:] Well obviously if, if we take these away there might be questions. I mean it's exactly how you do it with television what, what changing patterns are there.
[Peter:] Wh what I mean to say is I couldn't in advance guess which field it was that you were going to want at any particular moment.
[speaker002:] Oh no no no no no.
[Peter:] Do you see what I mean? Because you would want one I hadn't got. Erm but I, you know if you said... I think you see, I think what Colin's raising is a very interesting and important issue and I I naturally... you know as a senior manager I'm concerned about it. That's what... you know running any business or organisation means. You are concerned to fulfil every... requirement or factor in relation to erm er you know the principles which that particular body or particular requirement lays down. Either those of the market place or of those of funders or of your own cultural aims or equal opportunities or whatever it is. And so therefore at any one time we are working, I mean that's what we do, you know we are working at one particular area. It might be say at equal opportunities which we've worked at a very great deal over the last year. Clearly you can't expect admissions of people with disabilities er for example, taking one aspect of that er cultural and er that policy, to be high if... you know the building itself is physically inaccessible. So that has to be worked at and then you, you know, would begin to look at whether that has any effect on your admissions and so on. And, you know, along with marketing and so on we are, we're continually looking at all aspects of that. Now my, my unders my er... erm... thought would be that in reviewing the management accounts in general and the admissions in general you are keeping a wether eye on that. And I... you know should be and I hope am alerting you to areas where er you know we are falling short. Or where we are concerned or putting in extra work and so on. Erm the particular issue which Colin raises is a very important one. Erm... and er it could be that we could look at that. I mean it would be interesting to do that. You know, er given enough time and preparation and if we define clearly what it is that we want to analyze, you know I can provide that information er in the form of a report or in a rawish state and we could discuss that. For example you know like erm is it worthwhile opening a cinema at four o'clock would be an interesting question. And at the end of the day quite considerable... potential changes could arise from the results that you might deduce. For example, you know currently, you know our shift pattern with the projectionists for example, you know is generally when they're not on holiday that they're in at er ten o'clock and they work through till eleven. Not the same people, but you know that's the shift pattern. Erm and therefore... of course there's maintenance and preparation and all that sort of thing. And at the end of the day you would be into relating what people do in their job descriptions to whether you were getting value for money from those members of staff. And you'd be into time and motion and so on which I'm sure Semina you could erm... appreciate and comment on as well. And yes it erm... I mean and therefore we would be reviewing current practices which is that erm you know the film is in the building, the cinema is open, the staff are there and we therefore show a film at four o'clock because there's no extra charge for us doing so and we hope thereby to attract however many er patrons to see it. And of course we're offering a service of allowing people to choose to come at four rather than six and we are making ourselves accessible to single mothers who perhaps can't come out in the evening etcetera. So there's a whole range of things there which we're doing. And at the end of the day then, you have to weigh up whether or not you decide that even though, if you like in the strictest financial terms, it is not profitable to open the cinema and to employ staff doing that although presumably they'd have to be employed doing something else unless you changed their rota patterns... nonetheless because of your... the demands of funding bodies, your own cultural aims and equal opportunities policies, you've decided that you will do so even though it's going to be marginally a loss in financial terms. But of course that is a discussion which would be quite proper and er... for us to have and for the board to take a view on and er for funders to comment on and so on and so forth. Er and it could be done. But what I would say is that we should perhaps... er... er you know identify areas where we think we might erm... where discussion would be fruitful and then we could marshall the information if we, if we wished to. I mean you know, whatever it is that you you you would want I could do er in theory. Given enough time to prepare it. And therefore any trends or any queries er which emerge from you know whoever erm can be examined and erm... discussed.
[Colin:] The only, the only other thing I mean, the other thing which occurs in my mind and you know, as you know it isn't thought through and I want to look at what statistics are now available... is I mean the question of... increasing shortage of good product.
[Peter:] Mhm.
[Colin:] Which seems to me to impact on the same thing. If we're not gonna have such a good range of product, and we've already got some... what might be dud slots
[Peter:] Mhm.
[Colin:] er and is that gonna become an increasing factor as, as we continue down the shortage of product. I mean it just seems to me an area which I think I would like to have a bit more information on. I'm not saying, I'm not drawing any conclusions until I know but I'm saying I think it's an area that is perhaps worth investigation.
[Peter:] Mhm.
[Colin:] And I would be interested just to know how many performances... don't actually break even. And is there a regular pattern or is isn't there? You know is it completely variable? Or are there certain slots, are there certain times, certain types of product.
[Peter:] We did... if you remember Colin we did... erm produce some figures about break evens er which I gave to you and
[Colin:] Yes.
[Peter:] which are in the minutes. But of course to some degree you've got to decide what you mean by break even in the sense that er how do you actually... I mean that
[Colin:] take the subsidy into account or not.
[Peter:] Yeah. And how do you proportion... costs and so on. And we
[Colin:] Yeah. I appreciate that.
[Peter:] we came up with a number of figures. Erm... and clearly you know they are of some use. Er and at the end of the day you have a figure which you then can offset against what you think your corporate aims and er your other commitments in policy terms. Erm... and I think that it is a very useful exercise to discover which things you know fall below that break even point and which things are therefore if you like internally subsidized or which we do for one reason or another. And you might well argue of course that if you are subsidizing films which have no cultural merit or whatever then why we are doing this and that, that would be a question to... to ask. But erm... I feel perhaps we should do it at least over a period, you know rather than
[Colin:] Oh yes.
[Peter:] you know er
[Colin:] Er that's what I'm saying. If we, if we decide what it is we want to look at... and there is a consensus on that and then you look at it over a period of time and see, and see what's revealed by it. And whether it varies or whether it's consistent. Whether a particular pattern's in there. Er... but I mean basically at the end of the day, I mean you have to think about to what extent you can increase your sales.
[Peter:] Mhm.
[Colin:] To what extent you can increase your subsidy. Erm... and sponsorship. And er to what extent your fixed costs are inevitably going to continue increasing.
[Peter:] Yes.
[Colin:] And somewhere in there... it may be that something's got to give perhaps. Erm and I don't know whether that's the case either but I think all those factors are rolled in together in terms of future strategy. And er... those are the terms I'm thinking. But I mean I'm just speculating here at the moment.
[Peter:] Yes. I, I mean I think, I agree with you and er clearly these are management concerns. I mean these are the things which you know are our, are our daily er exercising daily our minds and erm
[Colin:] I mean all, all we go back to is
[Peter:] acknowledges
[Colin:] is when I first raised my question on that... with all those things at the back of my mind, I wasn't finding that... as we used to get it
[Peter:] No.
[Colin:] particularly helpful. And so
[Peter:] No.
[Colin:] we're obviously now in a position where we can do a great deal more in terms of analysis.
[Peter:] Mhm.
[Colin:] Which is I think where we finished up last time that when we've got the stuff on computer we can
[Peter:] Yes.
[Colin:] reinvestigate.
[Peter:] That's right....
[Roger:] So we'll leave it at that that we erm... the... chief executive will be happy to receive your comments, reports, feelings. I'm sure he'd welcome phone calls if there are things that er...
[Peter:] Yes I mean basically we need to first of all decide, I think this is what we're deciding in the first instance, which option for the provision of information you find the most helpful. That's the first question to be decided. We can't do anything beyond that... at this stage cos we first of all need to have the information. So that's the first question for you to think about and reflect on. When we've reached that, we could then think what way forward there is with this er more efficient... a provision of information... for analyzing it. But I don't think we can really er get to that stage beyond this first one. So I'd be very grateful therefore if er you could put your minds to the options and erm... we could discuss that at the next board meeting.
[Colin:] Can I, can I just say chairman, finally for point of... clarification in case there's any doubt about it... I'm not looking to turn it into the, into an absolutely like efficient business you know and everything succumbs to that. What I am certain about is... that there is a long term future for this cinema and that we're aware
[Roger:] Yes.
[Colin:] of what needs to be done to en ensure that while pursuing the cultural objectives.
[Roger:] Yes. Yes. I agree entirely.
[Colin:] I'm not looking for it to make, make a profit,
[Roger:] No.
[Colin:] be super efficient, it's just that... there is a chance of keeping going without too
[Roger:] Yes.
[Colin:] without having a crisis every other year or whatever.
[Roger:] Yes, this is exactly one of the reasons we had a crisis last... last time... was because... erm we didn't know... that the then director I'm sure didn't know what, what was happening. The information wasn't... either wasn't available to him or was not understood by him and he wasn't able to interpret it for the board. And we didn't see the warning signs and then when we had this serious situation it er... it it nearly... it nearly swamped us.
[Colin:] Mm.
[speaker002:] Do we, do we... want to go all this in the minutes?
[Roger:] I'm sure you would er sensibly produce minutes which don't offend anyone.... Er may I also say, and I'm sure you didn't mean to imply because I would certainly like to think we were super efficient.
[Colin:] well pleased
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] I'd hate to think that that wasn't an aim... of management.
[Colin:] I think it... yes well, let let's get that clear as well.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Colin:] I think you know that I think this cinema is well managed.
[Roger:] Yes but it was an aim which I'm sure... I I... would, alright alright
[speaker002:] Point taken. it's a good aim. I mean I I... support that aim.
[Roger:] Right well let's look at the... the accounts then. The financial report.... Erm first quarter, April May and June... have those....
[speaker002:] We haven't got any.
[Roger:] Has everybody got those? You've got them?... Erm... has everyone got them? Yes? Has anyone got two? Are they lurking in front of anyone?
[speaker002:] two different ones. One's
[Roger:] Ah.
[speaker002:] one's called Tyneside Cinema account budget ninety two.
[Roger:] Yeah that was last meeting. Sorry, you've got the last
[speaker002:] Does that, does that belong to the previous...
[Roger:] Yes. The previous minutes.
[speaker002:] Minutes, right. Oh right, yeah.
[Roger:] The one we're looking at now is April May and June. Do you have those Susie?... No. You don't. No,.... Has everyone got them?... Good. Now erm... April was a good month. And May was a good month.... June was much less.... At the box office, this is.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Roger:] Erm sorry, I must say
[speaker002:] Given financial financial reports.
[Roger:] I will finally change that to ticket sales. I'm sorry that this word box office keeps occurring. Which is one of my pet hates....
[speaker002:] Erm sh should, we we're entering a... a slow period traditionally. July and August.
[Roger:] Yes, June nationally... national figures of cinema attendances in June were down forty percent. Forty percent.
[speaker002:] On June last year?
[Roger:] On June last year.... Which is a lot. Which is a lot. And er
[speaker002:] Ours held up. Well, they were down but... were they down?
[Roger:] Yes, they were down by... six thousand seven hundred and eighty six pounds. Er I'm sorry, seven thousand five hundred and fifty five on budget but... they were down. Most certainly.
[speaker002:] And down on the previous year?
[Roger:] The previous year by about er four and a half thousand.
[speaker002:] On twenty thousand
[Roger:] Twenty thousand last year er budgeted on twenty two this year, fourteen and a half.
[speaker002:] The weather the weather was very good wasn't it?
[Roger:] The weather was superb, yes.
[speaker002:] I think you'll find all retailers and caterers was, were down. Not as much as forty percent but er they were down, yes.
[Roger:] You see the British cinema summer is different to the American cinema summer. As you know American cinema installed air conditioning in the fifties and that re erm late fifties, early sixties and that re revived the American cinema er... because people don't go abroad so much in America. They tend to er summer in America... and go to the cinema whether they're on holiday or not. But the air conditioning did revive the cinema industry and therefore the summer is geared to new released in America which is not the case erm in er...
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] er this is not the case in Britain which is traditionally a very slow period erm for releases. And erm... we therefore er... experience with our particular audience mix, generally a low July, a very low August. That's usually our lowest figure.... Erm... the overall picture as you can see in June is that we revised the budget to show at this moment... if this trend continues a deficit of two thousand pounds. I... you know how conservative I am with figures and er... with advising you as to what may occur I'm myself relatively confident that erm we shall meet our ticket sales target by the year end and that there will be no as there... as there's been... in previous years since er the aforementioned not to be noted er crisis. Er but er this is the position as it is now and I I've taken the conservative position as always.
[Colin:] Just a matter of information erm on on
[Roger:] floating incomes?
[Colin:] No, on on the revised budget do you just take them on strength or do you do something a bit more sophisticated?
[Roger:] Erm we're doing something a little bit more sophisticated. Which is that we discuss it and see that it would be reasonable to do that.
[Colin:] [LAUGHTER] Right.
[Roger:] Er but not much more sophisticated than that. But we don't just simply press a button.
[Colin:] Right.
[Roger:] We... all these figures are discussed and we take into account the previous three years. And we take into account what we know about product up coming which isn't always a lot. Erm... and so forth....
[speaker002:] A question I would ask is that given the product which you had in June and the fact that presumably you have to take what goes, presumably the fact that they don't send you the strongest stuff... erm are you surprised that the figures were down in view of the quality of what you had, or are you surprised it might not have been worse?
[Roger:] I think... I'm rather surprised they might not have been worse. Erm if we actually look erm and I don't know if we did introduce to all members Bryony who is my assistant and who works very largely on the programme with me and on the educational and events side, and is acting minute secretary while Judith is on maternity leave. But I think Bryony if you er... also comment, but the films that we had in June like Rebecca's Daughter... erm... and Until the End of the World... erm and... erm some re-runs. They weren't particularly... stunning were they?
[Bryony:] No, films like Rebecca's Daughter didn't have reviews. And cos they didn't have huge national publicity. They weren't very good films really.
[Roger:] [LAUGHTER] Basically [].
[Bryony:] yeah.
[Roger:] Yes. They had erm, what was it?
[Bryony:] comedy
[Roger:] Peter O'Toole dressed as Elizab Elizabeth the first. I mean they... you know. And it was a film which really was ill-conceived and quite frankly ridiculous. Apart from My Private Idaho which er I thought that might have been
[speaker002:] a re-run then?
[Roger:] Yes.
[Bryony:] Mm.
[Roger:] Er apart from that really there was nothing very strong at all. Until the End of the World was... dire. Er
[Bryony:] And was three hours longer
[Roger:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Well obviously the customers chairman are sensitive to what is actually being shown. They don't simply come through repetitive habit do they? I mean they
[Roger:] Well some do, thankfully.
[speaker002:] Ah.
[Roger:] Well that's a different matter. That's a cult issue.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] But I'm very interested to learn that on Monday when er the Autobus didn't... Erm... you know, do come along and er see if it made er what difference it made, no I'm being a bit facetious, but erm there are some people who come anyway. There are some people who obviously come at the weekend more to see whatever it is we're showing. But clearly the majority of our audience is rather discerning and er... is making decisions based on erm a whole range of factors to do with the information they receive through marketing and... publicity.... Right. Ticket sales. Erm any other... points that er... a board member would like to raise or the chief
[speaker002:] No no. Not at all.
[Roger:] the chief executive would like to... draw to our attention?... Anything er alarming in... alarming trends in here?
[Peter:] I don't think so. No.... Is that lost next door?
[Roger:] Er it's upstairs. I'm afraid I can't identify it.... Mm?
[speaker002:] ?
[Roger:] Oh it's ju, yes.
[speaker002:] Can I ask why the education income is, is. Is that, is that a sort of er... is that an accidental er do you do you get what comes in through
[Roger:] It's the worst time of the year. Most educational income comes between October and April.
[speaker002:] Ah. So although the budget is two thousand that's what, a cumulative budget or a share of the annual budget?
[Roger:] Which, currently? Er... three thousand er three hundred is what er we had budgeted to make by this time.
[speaker002:] Right.
[Roger:] Er this year we actually made three four seven but we're still thinking that we will make two thousand pounds.
[speaker002:] ...
[Susie:] And in the income does hire refer to hire of this room?
[Roger:] Not only this room but the cinema itself.
[Susie:] Right.
[Roger:] Erm and again the key times for that is usually September to April.... Right. Yes?... Thank you very much. Erm... your report.
[Peter:] Well if I may... raise a number of issues under that report. I don't know when it is that you'd like to take this. Whether this is an appropriate moment?
[Roger:] Yes, I think
[Peter:] But since we've
[Roger:] Let's let's get that sorted. The erm financial...
[Peter:] Er I just have a horrid thought... Oh that was sent out to you wasn't it?
[Roger:] Yes.
[Peter:] The statement of financial procedure. Good, sorry, just had a thought it wasn't. This is something we discussed and thrashed out last time?...
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Peter:] And... should... be adopted now unless there are things, further things you wish to discuss. Or members who weren't here or... but we did... talk this through in some detail. We took advice from our funders and er we looked through this er... on a previous occasion. It is meant both to set out extraordinary expenditure which was how it arose but at the same time John pointed out that it might be a good thing if we also had an indication of the routine procedures... and so therefore they are now set out in one document... and are... for your er final approval.... I read them and they seem to be er... a a direct record of what we'd er... agreed.... There is actually one emendation which I put in... er... just to ex sort of er explicate still further. Under emergency procedure... I put in the words... in the second line, after having made every reasonable effort to consult with the chief executive.... Really to protect... members of the management team who might have made a decision. If you remember the screen was slashed by a phantom... lunatic. Well not a phantom lunatic but by a lunatic. Well it wasn't, I mean this is an example, sorry.
[Susie:] Oh right.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Peter:] But if it were if it were to be slashed or erm you know and er... on Monday evening we would have to get a screen... we would have to replace that screen immediately. If I were you know unaccountably in the south of France or elsewhere or wherever you know... in Dundee... erm and not available.
[speaker002:] The south of France is more likely.
[Peter:] Ha! Would that it were. Would that it were. Erm but I think that I, what I felt was that I should have the right to be consulted and that every reasonable effort should be made to consult me. Because... as indeed er... has happened er... sometimes... the real emergency is not that of equipment. There is a tendency, I I hope not of er this management team but... there is a tendency of some people who... who might be employed in future to feel that solutions... can be obtained by purchasing and I'm not always convinced that that is the case. Sometimes there's an under underlying reason of staffing difficulties or disciplinary or whatever, which might mean that new equipment will not be the answer.
[Roger:] Well I there there was a... a classic example of this during the refurbishments when the contractors had left the building unsecured over
[Peter:] Mm.
[Roger:] over a weekend. And er the decision had to be taken to bring in erm security guards
[Peter:] Security guards.
[Roger:] only. You were there as it happens.
[Peter:] Mm.
[Roger:] You were available but you... later on won't be.
[Peter:] Mm. Mm.
[Roger:] And I think that would have been the... the classic situation where we would... We've got a procedure now for dealing with it and I think this covers all and I... unless somebody wants to... further debate the matter I'll er I will propose that we adopt these... the financial regulations... for the er... Tyneside Film Theatre Limited. Could I have a seconder?... Thank you, Susie. All in favour?... Great.
[speaker002:] Could I ask a
[Roger:] Yes.
[speaker002:] complementary question? And it doesn't affect the procedures but... four refers to pay cheques. And I I wonder whether we should infer from that whether all staff or a number of staff get a pay cheque
[Peter:] Mm.
[speaker002:] as distinct from salaries paid into
[Peter:] True.
[speaker002:] their bank account or building society accounts. Ah, yes.
[Peter:] We don't do that. But some are paid in cash.... Er... mm.... Pay cheques or slips?...
[speaker002:] If they were slips they wouldn't...
[Peter:] I don't think I'd
[speaker002:] they would decide whether they want cheques which.
[Peter:] I don't think that, I'd
[speaker002:] It's signing the stubs that is
[Peter:] Er... yes. It's it's to do with signing of cheques. The chief executive in two is answerable... these are monitored by the... so that some staff are indeed paid in cash. That, those are the only two alternatives. Either in cash weekly or by cheque monthly. There are no direct debits or... into building societies or anything of that sort. Because we, we have a large amount of cash which it suits us to get rid of... rather than take it to the bank er to be added up and charged for cash handling. So erm... I I, I mean I can understand that we have a... a specific need to er... address the member of who signs what cheques but I think the matter of... cash... is covered by two, the chief executive is answerable to a board for financial matters. These are monitored by the board's scrutiny of the monthly management accounts. I mean you must have a lot of cases whereby... where, where you are actually... perhaps er er... a taxi needs to be paid for to take
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Peter:] somebody. Well that's cash out. There must be lots of cases where you are actually... paying the window cleaner cash in hand or something. I I assume, I mean obviously there are routine matters which are paid for and recorded erm in the normal way. Is it, does that
[speaker002:] Is that alright?
[Peter:] still cover your point or not?...
[speaker002:] Not, not quite. The real question is... why, why don't we pay staff er... direct transfer into bank accounts? Why, why
[Peter:] We don't wish to.
[speaker002:] You you you... you half explained anyway. You actually have the cash turning over
[Peter:] We don't wish to because it is not financially sensible for an organization which is cash rich to take all the money to the bank. To pay the bank daily to do things with it... and then to start adding to those costs which a bank charges by using all these sophisticated methods when we can in fact do what most staff want, which is to give them cash in a little brown envelope on a Thursday.... I mean I think it's, I mean I I have personally asked this question a number of times and pressed for everybody to be paid properly... in inverted commas, I E monthly, but this is an assumption... about a certain lifestyle and a certain way of budgeting which er I don't think we have necessarily... the right or, you know it's not necessarily our
[speaker002:] Oh it's got to be the choice of the er
[Peter:] And most staff actually prefer cash weekly. There's only two members of staff who are paid monthly by cheque and I'm one of them.
[speaker002:] That, that's fine as, as long as cash handling to salaries does not give you an additional security or handling problem. I think you've covered that by... indicating the nature of the cash handling for the whole organization. I mean I've learned something.
[Peter:] Mm. I don't think it does in that erm...
[speaker002:] How often do you handle it?
[Peter:] I, I really don't know. Three times a week perhaps? Twice a week?... I'm not sure.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Colin:] No I mean our, our bank handling charge is is very significant.
[Peter:] Mm.
[Colin:] Yeah. I mean if you bank every day it costs you a fortune.
[Peter:] Mm.
[Colin:] But I would have thought you could have got away with banking once a week.
[Peter:] I don't think it's quite once a week cos the weekend which means you have quite a big build up on a Monday which you want to get rid of. Don't want in the building.
[Colin:] Well we only do it twice a week.
[Peter:] I think it may be twice a week. I mean I
[Colin:] I mean you did a big, you need a big safe.
[Peter:] you know I'd, I'd need to check with Frances precisely. And it varies. I don't think er I mean you know there are certain s we're covered to have certain sums in the safe by insurance and we don't exceed those and so on. I mean you know... I could find out if you'd like to know.
[speaker002:] Yeah isn't, you you're much more labour-intensive than we are aren't you?
[Colin:] Well I would think our takings are higher than the cinema. In general.
[speaker002:] No! [LAUGHTER]
[Colin:] And we get away with twice a week.
[Peter:] But you possibly have security and so on?... Extra security? Or you may use a firm even?
[Colin:] Well no. Well the the money's collected by a firm and taken to the bank.
[Peter:] Yes.
[Colin:] And that's another reason we only do it twice a week. [LAUGHTER]
[Peter:] Yes. Well we don't do that. We do it ourselves. We did look into Securicor but it's far too expensive.... Erm... right. The next thing er which again er is er... a detail of something which is already approved and it is merely than in our conditions of service during our discussions with the city er personnel department we noted, or they noted... as it had arisen that we indicated the route to erm sick pay over a certain period and before a certain period but not the detail of how you got there. And so we've merely spelt that out on the second page of our standard conditions of service. And erm er that is for your... er for you to take note of and er to.. formally to approve if you would.... You have these standard conditions of service of course?... Oh. Already because they've been approved by the board. Has everyone got one now? No? Yes?
[speaker002:] One more.
[Peter:] One more.... These you have, and these have been approved. I'm sorry, it is getting rather hot in here. Do we have the keys to that... I think it would be wise. Yes. If you wouldn't mind. Well if you want to just ring and ask someone to bring them.
[Bryony:] There won't be anyone there.
[Peter:] There won't be anyone to ring,.
[speaker002:] We are... addressing which
[Peter:] Er we are looking at page... erm
[speaker002:] hundred.
[Peter:] er well it should be page two but in my er haste I may have... I notice mine is in the wrong order. But anyway you want the... heading sickness.... And we're just looking at the route to... In the previous er conditions of service we merely mentioned... the time for which you weren't entitled to sick pay and the time after which you were entitled to full sick pay which we defined, we didn't define the route. I've now defined the route taking advice from the city personnel... service.... So you just need to look at that
[speaker002:] Yes.
[Peter:] those length of service stroke related sickness pay.... Agreed?
[speaker002:] Right
[Peter:] So these conditions of service then are those which apply to all current and future staff. And these conditions apply from the first of April of this year. All members of staff have standard conditions of service as set out here, with the exception of temporary staff or staff who are er... on a short time contract or maternity leave cover who may have a short term er notice er... erm for erm... a period of notice. And with the other exception of the chief executive who according to his er conditions of appointment has a three months notice period. Everyone else... sorry this is the er... security blind. Everyone else has a standard period of notice. And everyone else's contracts are therefore according to these conditions of service....
[Bryony:] Okay?
[Peter:] Thank you.... yes. But if you, if you're in a draught Jenny or John, say so. But it does help us to get some
[speaker002:] I'm not in a draught where I am I can assure you.
[Peter:] get some air into the building. The other period erm the other thing I would like your advice on erm... did you, you didn't note all this? Oh I'll give you all that, it's alright. Er the other thing I'd like your advice on is that the coffee room's franchise... er is due for renewal in nineteen ninety three. And according to the erm agreement which I made with the franchisee... in June eighty nine erm... his rent is also due for review er this August. Now erm I E now. However, the... er holder came to me and said that they, he would like to invest a considerable sum in new equipment, refrigerators blah blah blah. And so therefore, as we did in our case, would like... erm some indication o er of whether or not er he could... and this was his suggestion... er give up his current lease which runs out next year and take on a new lease with us... for a period. Erm and accepting that would mean er obviously an increase in rent and perhaps changes in that lease er in order that he would be able to er to invest that money. Now this is clearly something which some of you have great erm knowledge and expertise in such as Colin. And I'd be very grateful for your advice. For what it's worth [cough] my own advice would be that we... I erm as you remember, increased the rental for the er coffee rooms from four thousand pounds when I er... took over the post of chief executive and er to seven thousand five hundred in July eighty nine and we've increased that yearly to a sum of twenty one thousand one hundred and fifty pounds per annum er from the first of August nineteen ninety one. Erm... my advice to you would be that in the past, before the coffee rooms was run by this particular... person... firm... we had very great difficulty with them and I'm sure John will bear me out on this. And in fact the coffee rooms not only were not profitable but I think at one time were even subsidized by the directors' own pocket which just how balmy some people can be. Erm that was in Sheila 's day. But it never was profitable. Indeed was er er I think a thorn in the flesh, to say the least. These people have hit on a formula which seems to work. Erm er... in my opinion they are a very good tenant and a very good person to work with and they certainly are very cooperative with the cinema. Erm I could of course and will of course erm take advice as to whether the rent we're now charging them is reasonable. We do have to bear in mind that our... rent has increased er our own rent to Morgan Estates and so on. And this... you know is acknowledged. But my, my view would be that I would er... you know investigate this fully and er come forward with a recommendation, but that... er my own... er thought would be, and I I now take your thoughts, that we should not... get ourselves erm launched into a very big, massive erm... you know operation of advertising this franchise afresh and going through the whole procedure. Erm... particularly at this time. But that we should continue with this particular person. But I would say that we should obviously look at the financial... aspect of the review erm dates, which might be yearly. We should look at the length or the term of the new franchise which should perhaps be limited to three or five years. Er whichever could be negotiated. And we should look also I think perhaps at some quality factors er which might be written into the lease since there are some... some things which I think we're all less than satisfied with er... you know customer complaints and the way they're dealt with. The time it takes to be served and a number of things. And of course all that is a play-off against you know... keeping that franchisee er involved and keeping them feeling that they can still make a profit. And that, you know, not tying them up with endless pettifogging regulations. But I think there are a number of things er which would need to be taken into account. What I would say overall... sorry, if I may just add one further point is that the coffee rooms makes a profit and pays its bills very promptly to us. It is not necessarily the... always I think that the type of operation which a certain... sector of our audience would necessarily want. I E it doesn't always serve the food which they would like. Particularly, you know it has to be said there is a particular age... class background and so on and so forth. But that it does satisfy a need for a vast number of, of people who may be rather younger and poorer than er we who sit here. Er and erm that is of course a large section of our audience also. So... er I don't think we should attempt to shift the coffee rooms into you know a nice health food, vegetarian, upmarket... restaurant which might suit us because it, it thereby wouldn't fulfil its function which, from our point of view, is to provide a service and
[speaker002:] I think basically they're doing... the job that the public want cos... they're successful.
[Susie:] They're always busy. I mean yeah if you come
[Peter:] Yes.
[Susie:] come in the middle of the day or whenever you know they'll be busy. It's amazing....
[Roger:] Well it is quite true that if you come to eat before you see a film... you have to ask if they can do it in time.
[Peter:] Mhm.
[Susie:] Yeah, and sometimes they've said no. I, I've been here before and they've said ah... sorry it's gonna take ages. [LAUGHTER] I mean you know. I mean at least they're honest but er... [LAUGHTER]
[Colin:] I think if you're happy with them... but there are some minor points... there's, it's going to be a new underlease is it?
[Peter:] Sorry?
[Colin:] It's going to be a new underlease.
[Peter:] They would give up this current one and we would
[Colin:] Ah well it gives you the chance to get, to increase the rent if you er... but if you're happy with them as operators... er you can boost your income for the year. Er I wouldn't be as generous with them as our landlord was with us.
[Peter:] No. Certainly not.
[Colin:] And if there are elements of the operation that you're not happy with er... if, if there aren't any catering regulations in the underlease well you can introduce some.
[Peter:] Mm.
[Roger:] Mm.
[Colin:] Which will then gives you a chance to control their operation when you're not happy with it. So... as long as you you're thinking that they're doing okay and meeting the market demand.... Er you could improve the terms. Get er an increased rent earlier. Get some regulations imposed on them. I think it's a good idea.
[Peter:] I mean I think that my principle desire is that they pay their er they contribute to our income and pay their rent regularly and are able to do so. Er together with, if you could tie those two together, providing a service to a section of our customers. They don't clearly provide a service to all our customers. Erm and
[speaker002:] They never will.
[Susie:] That would be difficult.
[speaker002:] They never will. No.
[Susie:] Yeah.
[Peter:] erm but they do provide a regular and safe income.
[speaker002:] Well, nobody ever does.
[Susie:] Yeah that's right.
[Roger:] But there are particular areas like this, you having to wait a long time and... if you come into the building to go and see a film and you've... you've left an hour to, to have some food... you, you really shouldn't be missing the film because
[Susie:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I mean, I would imagine that they can pr, they can... with your assistance, create something whereby they can say there will be a meal and it will be
[Colin:] If you make that part of the lea the
[Roger:] You can try without persecuting them er t t to a degree which makes it not worth their while being in the business. I mean Yeah. but if they have a, if they have a... some sort of fast food provision in the menu with a limited choice.
[speaker002:] As long as
[Roger:] Mm.
[speaker002:] And he could say right, you want a mea right... Well, stuffed baked potatoes.
[Peter:] My view is that this has to be negotiated with them and I would be very loathe for us to start imposing erm
[Roger:] Yeah. I think what you've t what you've taken from us is the view
[Peter:] Yes.
[Roger:] that there is a concern about the ability to eat here immediately prior to seeing. They're may not be time
[Peter:] Well one person raised that. Yes. Two
[Roger:] Well just, you know if they... if they were sensitive to that sort of thing. I mean I'm I'm... I know to ask
[Peter:] Yes.
[Roger:] when I come in if I can have poached eggs on toast and see the film, you know. The trouble is er But strangers don't there is no way there is no way there is no way of ensuring that our No no. this requirement is ever met. Yes. I know it So this is the problem. If we start laying down so many things. I agree with you. Yeah. And I think the quality, and that is one of the quality of service, quality of er route of complaints and so on. I would like to see those things built in. But even though they guaranteed to provide every customer who had allowed three quarters of an hour er for a meal, you know, you would have to lay down in very great deal wouldn't you? You may have a poached egg but you not have a poached egg with... rice.
[Peter:] I'm not considering, no. I'm... I, what I what I'm seeing
[Roger:] [LAUGHTER]
[Peter:] what I'm seeing with this is the opportunity of raising particular issues
[Roger:] Yes.
[Peter:] if we're going to enter into a new lease with them.
[Roger:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Of course.
[Peter:] By er failing even once to meet a reasonable demand for a... for something to eat in a short period of time, then there's a knock on effect to our business. And I think that's something which we have a right to... to raise with them. So erm erm
[Susie:] They might not be aware that er there is, you know, that there could be customers who
[Roger:] Yes.
[Susie:] who haven't been promptly served
[Roger:] the building.
[Susie:] Yeah exactly. They might, they might not be a hundred percent sort of... aware of these things.
[speaker002:] Can I suggest that they probably simply do not know, they work in a particular way, a particular level. And I suspect that if we offered them counselling from cater good catering advice on how to maximise their market return they'll do it because... I wouldn't hang about for a meal if I knew that they wouldn't give you a meal in fifteen minutes, I'd go and eat somewhere else.
[Susie:] You er
[speaker002:] There's no shortage of fast food
[Roger:] If you allow, if you allow an hour for a meal... in the coffee rooms
[speaker002:] Well that's that's that's good for a isn't it?
[Roger:] you might just catch the film.
[speaker002:] Yeah. Okay, well er if the market, you know you're, live in a market world. If it gets a bad reputation, people won't come and they will suffer. I think the interesting thing is is the five card erm... is, is the brag you play or the... poker you play and how much to raise the ante.
[Peter:] Yes. I mean the point is
[speaker002:] He's doing alright isn't he?
[Peter:] you
[Colin:] As I say it's all gotta be subject to you negotiate with him
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Colin:] but if he's not willing to pay a market rent.
[Peter:] Mm.
[Colin:] Well then you're gonna have to say farewell.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Peter:] Yes. I I
[Roger:] Don't they also have problems with the, with the er the drinks?... You know, I mean
[Peter:] That's a licence question.
[Roger:] how many people have walked out because they... they can't have a drink.
[Peter:] Well they can't. It's a licence
[Roger:] But with, you know, people with their meal or or
[speaker002:] Mm.
[Roger:] someone who doesn't want a meal but just wants a drink... but all the rest of the people are having a meal.
[Peter:] Well they can't.
[Roger:] I've seen loads of er
[Peter:] Yes but they can't. And that
[Roger:] Yeah.
[Peter:] that's the law.
[Roger:] Yeah.
[Peter:] We can't ask them to change the law. They could apply for a bar licence of course. That's another issue.
[speaker002:] There is a bar licence attached to this building.
[Peter:] Club bar licence, alas.
[speaker002:] Club bar licence.
[Peter:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But it might not be a bad idea to go down that route to see if we can... we can see if it can be exploit it at this stage because we have discussed, and I know this is getting off the the... the... the agen
[Colin:] Yes.
[speaker002:] agendum [LAUGHTER] agendum but erm [LAUGHTER] I think No but it's not about giving them too much advice. I think
[Peter:] Yes.
[speaker002:] what the fact is that the place is packed.
[Peter:] They succeeded.
[speaker002:] The fact is that many majority of people know that it Yes. takes a long time.
[Roger:] See a lot of the people that come are students who've got, who have got time
[speaker002:] Fact is that
[Roger:] that sounds awful. But yeah they have got time available
[Peter:] The point is I think that the prime thing to remember is that the... the the the s the customers in the coffee rooms are not necessarily customers in the cinema.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Peter:] That is the fact of the matter.
[Susie:] Mm.
[Peter:] And I'm afraid there is no way you can... you, if you try and force the caf to be more a sort of caf that people who come to the cinema will patronize then it will not make a profit in my view. It never did. If you actually allow it to be a caf in your premises which hopefully will also satisfy... some of our customers then apparently it will make a profit. But I'm very loathe to attempt to force it to be something other than that which it is. Because that which it is is profitable. But I'm also very anxious that we receive a full percentage whack of those profits and as you can see I, over the years, I've been very assiduous in ensuring that we do move towards that position.
[Colin:] That that's er a straight rent is it?
[Peter:] I don't understand that term.
[Colin:] Well it's a straight rent. What what
[Peter:] Except in
[Colin:] what I was going to suggest is that we should s seek to negotiate with them a turnover rent.
[Peter:] You could.
[Colin:] A base rent or turnover rent
[Peter:] Could try that. Yes. You could try that. What I don't want to get
[Colin:] So as they increase in sales
[Peter:] Yeah, of course.
[Colin:] or as you increase the customer at the cinema which increases their sales, you take a share of it.
[Peter:] That is... okay when things are going well of course.
[Colin:] Ah we have a base rent.
[Susie:] Yeah.
[Peter:] Yes.
[Colin:] Which you get anyway.
[Peter:] Mm.
[Colin:] Whatever happens.
[Roger:] It would be a way to get faster service wouldn't it.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Peter:] Yes I mean those things are possible
[Colin:] it encourages it encourages them to increase their business as well you see.
[Peter:] Yes.
[Roger:] Yeah.
[Peter:] What happens if they were to say no though in a negotiating position and they just we'll, we'll go. You know we've actually got somewhere else and, and so on. I mean yes of course I know, I know about negotiation but
[Colin:] but that, that but that's the whole thing I'm saying. Er you, you want to keep them because you think they do alright and
[Peter:] Yeah.
[Colin:] pay you on time and all the rest of it.
[Peter:] Yes.
[Colin:] So what you do is you open negotiations with them on a new lease.
[Peter:] Yeah.
[Colin:] And you see what improvements you can get.
[Peter:] Yeah.
[Colin:] And if they're not prepared to pl play the game or pay the going rate well then you review it and think... how far do I push them on this?
[Peter:] Yeah, yeah.
[Colin:] And how far do I not accept what I think I might get in order to remain on good terms.
[Peter:] Yes.
[speaker002:] I d I don't want this to be minuted but I, I think erm... we are aware of Susan....
[Peter:] Is this a papal pronouncement?
[Susie:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] No. It is a family organization.
[Colin:] It's a mafia, a mafia
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yes? And erm... we are we we
[Peter:] Is that good or bad?
[speaker002:] Yeah it's... very good. I mean we may not necessarily be talking about the... the the reporting procedures on turnover which would enable us to assess a rack rent in in in the
[Peter:] Oh I see.
[speaker002:] Mm. Mm. Mm. Ah well you've got a computer system now which is wiser than anybody here. [LAUGHTER] Or you have
[Colin:] Well I mean you know turnover, turnover rents can be run without a comp without a computerized till. You just insist you have access to the books at any time or... you send your accountant in to check.
[Peter:] I wondered if there was a
[Colin:] Everything has to have a till receipt. You can check the till rolls which have to be kept. I mean there's plenty of ways of doing it.
[Peter:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Erm I was wondering if introducing that might make a... Yeah. be making them changing their way of operation which they might find... unattractive for reasons
[Susie:] Yeah.That's right
[speaker002:] which...
[Peter:] Yes.
[speaker002:] perhaps we can go into. As, as they are a family operation.
[Roger:] You don't need to... minute that.. Anyway [cough] Yes. Well can I, can I, can we leave it perhaps that erm we, that the chief executive has received the er good advice of the board and will negotiate... on the basis of the surrender of the
[Peter:] Yes. Would you like me to report
[Roger:] old lease.
[Peter:] to whom? I mean, would you like me to do this or would you like me to report. I would prefer to a committee of people who have experience
[Roger:] yes.
[Peter:] er because you know, if we wait till the twenty eighth of October... er that... you know, won't suit their purpose which is that they would like to get on with this so they can invest in plant... renewal. I, I would prefer
[Roger:] Well we could do
[Peter:] to take advice, particularly from you Colin and from anyone else. John? I don't know, or anyone who feels...
[Roger:] Shall we do the F and G P route?
[Peter:] Right.
[Roger:] Er where we'd inter-coopt er Colin on to the F and G P for that... so you get the opportunity, thank you very much, you get the opportunity of reporting... to us what, what you've done. So we can say yes. Or or
[Colin:] Can you let me have a copy of the... lease... as soon as you can?
[Peter:] Yes. Thank you.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Erm right so the... we agree to delegate to the F and G P the... of the existing lease and the taking on of a new lease... underlease for... the coffee room, tea room operators.
[Peter:] Thank you. Erm.... What would you like next to address?
[Roger:] Distribution report, that's about it really.
[Peter:] What?
[Roger:] Distribution report?
[Peter:] Er yes. Erm Roger's very keen on this. Erm
[Roger:] Oh yes.
[Peter:] oh as I think I mentioned last time we have had a marketing er survey undertaken. Particularly in relation to distribution and when...
[Roger:] Publicity material, not of films.
[Peter:] Yes. No of our... our marketing and publ print and so on. When that's settled... you know through the various committees, well various. Through the management team and erm when marketing had a chance to reflect on that I, I'll report back to you what our thoughts are. And indeed the the report of course is available if anyone would like to read it. It's a very good report, which was done by a... graduate student from the university of Northumbria on placement and er involved a lot of field work. And I think it's a very fine piece of work for which he received a first class mark... incidentally.
[Roger:] Good.
[Colin:] Er the university of Northumbria or Newcastle
[speaker002:] Is that Newcastle brackets Carlisle campus. [LAUGHTER]
[Roger:] Right yes I am keen on that because I think er one of the keys to growth in our business is to... attract more people and... to attract people you must tell them that we're here and what we're doing.. I think that... I think it's a a good first step. Erm, equal ops?
[Peter:] Er nothing to report on that. Er... I I've already reported on the maternity leave cover provisions....
[speaker002:] Is that a standing item on the agenda?
[Roger:] Yes.
[Peter:] It is. Yes....
[Roger:] Erm... so er
[Peter:] Oh actually sorry, if I could just add a little bit to that.
[speaker002:] No, no need to add anything further, thank you. That's all
[Peter:] But I will nonetheless now you've
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Peter:] now you've jogged my memory. We are putting together... a... systematized er... body of documentation which
[speaker002:] Foreign word.
[Peter:] Alright, an appalling word. We are putting together the documents and er accompanying er notes on recruitment selection procedure which will be followed in all cases in the cinema. It will be an ex expanded version of that which... er we had further, we had earlier approved in our equal opportunities policy. But much more detailed and as a result not only of about twelve days' training which we've undertaken in that area with the management team, or various of them, but also of our experience over the last eighteen months in operating it. And I, we've been complimented on a number of occasions on that procedure erm by various public bodies. Erm and we are now, if you like, putting it into a form which anyone... can use irrespective of whether they have done the training. Although of course we'll continue with training everyone who's likely to do it. But, as in the case say of a temporary administrator coming in he'd be able to or she would be able to take up this file and use it. And it covers, I hope, most eventualities. Erm and I will bring it to you finally when it's in a form to be adopted as the procedure which this... board will use... erm either, you know, or delegate er the chief executive to use in the case of any appointments.
[Roger:] Thank you.... And under any other business are we...?
[speaker002:] Well just
[Peter:] Yes. Erm er I'm
[speaker002:] equal ops
[Peter:] proceeding... with... erm investigating the er educational dimension of the cinema, it's funding and staffing. Erm... we... used at one time as you remember to have a full time education officer and er for a number of reasons er that er is no longer the case. We certainly have not ceased erm to undertake educational work and erm... I do from time to time er do a number of reports on that work for er our funding bodies and... er recently I've done a report requested by Northern Arts, for the Arts Council I believe. Erm a cultural diversity report which lists for example the events or and film erm... which relate to erm that aspect of our policy. Erm... courses, events, day schools, special screenings programmes er educational marketing back up and so forth are always, are a central and crucial part of our work. But erm it is my design at the earliest opportunity to erm... extend er that work through more specific and increased provision er... with er current er staffing erm levels erm... borne in mind. I'm at the moment negotiating with a, a previous sponsor an S K Bearings Europe Limited who have a plant at Peterlee who are very interested in looking at erm supporting our educational provision. And there will be opportunities to apply for support from the British Film Institute and elsewhere... erm in order that we can expand er what we're doing in that area and I, I just wanted to let the board know about that and to say that erm... er... this is the route that I'm currently taking and erm I will be reporting to them when there are specific developments and that I hope that you approve of er me attempting to expand our provision in this area....
[speaker002:] Good.
[Roger:] Thank you. Any... questions?... Any other business?... Could I just remind members of the board of the next two meetings... which are at the bottom of the er a a agenda and were given to you previously of course. You should have them in your diaries but... as we have such a full complement this evening, can I just draw those attention er to your attention. Twenty eighth of October and the annual general meeting on the second of December....
[speaker002:] I would... also actually, briefly... under any other business... you have the days of the the the dates of the film festival?
[Roger:] Yes. The opening gala on the third of October, Saturday. And the closing gala on the eighteenth of October, Sunday....
[Peter:] Can I also draw your attention to another date which is the Thursday the seventeenth of September which is the regional press launch for the... fifteenth... international Tyneside film festival. Some of you I know are working but some now Roger are people of leisure... and will therefore... I hope er be able to find more space in their diaries to quaff the glass of er cheap wine and er raise it... indeed.
[speaker002:] Beer.
[Peter:] Of expensive beer, and to raise it in our er support.
[speaker002:] Where's that held?
[Peter:] That is here, at this cinema and er usually consists of a film show and erm... er presentation and then of a buffet lunch. And we really are very pleased to see you th at that... erm Thursday the seventeenth of September.... Er it will be at ten. Ten till two or something like that. It's also very good if board members can attend to er... not merely to support the staff er and to celebrate the event but also, if necessary, to talk to the press or to... er engage er with guests and so on and so forth. Er it would be much appreciated if you were able to attend....
[Roger:] Any other other business?
[Colin:] What a brave person you are to let a board of trustees loose on the press.
[Peter:] Well we we we'll have an army of people to stand by you and guide you and
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Peter:] nudge you should you say anything.
[Roger:] Notwithstanding there being thirteen people round the table I do not propose to wash any feet and I call the meeting to a close.
[speaker002:] Where do you get them Roger?
[Peter:] Eighteenth. Sunday the eighteenth of October....
[Roger:] Thank you very much for your kind attention ladies and gentlemen.