[speaker001:] Evening ladies and gentlemen. Good evening In case you're wondering why the conversation's being recorded this evening. Perhaps you'd care to explain, Mr Chairman, to those who don't know.
[Graham:] Certainly I would, thank you, Vice Chairman. Er, yes, this is a follow up erm, if you remember at the last full council meeting, we recorded er proceedings for the er British Corpus, is it, Town Clerk?... Yes, yes. And er, they were so pleased with your efforts, that they've sent the Town Clerk some more tapes, and they'd like a few more. I'm not quite sure that we will appear Darling Buds of May, but it's something similar, mhm. There... right. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Thank you, Graham. Right, Item one, have we any apologies?
[Graham:] Councillors,,, and. Sorry... [paper rustling]
[speaker001:] Anyone else?
[Graham:] Yes, [LAUGHTER] but has been wet all day.
[speaker001:] Right, item two, reports and correspondence, Town Clerk.
[Graham:] I've got a couple of pieces of correspondence about things you've already looked at, erm, just minor alterations...
[speaker001:] The first was alterations and link annex to West Harroll and Durrock Road. [whispering] The minor amendments [] altering the roof design of a garage annex from head to gable on the west elevation and all other specs of the development rema remains unchanged, well, Erm, the second item is, er, a conversion of a bungalow to house West Hill. And the amendment is, oh, the omission of a second... omission of the second floor. All other respects of the development remains unchanged, so not converting to a house, then. Doesn't look like it.
[Graham:] So they're doing nothing then, are they? Is that what they're saying? If it's already a bungalow.
[speaker001:] I just read these things... Sorry. I would imagine what they're doing is raising the roof and not putting in the second storey. Yes, it says... it's a reconversion of bungalow to house, West Hill. I would like to notify you of the following amendments to the planning permission for the above development. To remind people of the of the omission of the second floor. In all other respects the development remains unchanged. This matter was approved and myself, Deputy Chairman, rural area area planning They've done nothing. I think they just had to admit that it's not, they can't, they can't do any s s sin, because it'd say so, right. It's admitting [church bells] Well, I don't understand that. No, I didn't either I'm sorry, this confusion that er, that the upstairs, is in fact, the first floor. And the two... yes and, and the second floor which in fact is a third storey. Indeed, could well be, couldn't it? Could be like... Mr Chairman, would I, er, can I ask that we ask for er more explanation on what they're doing there?
[Graham:] Yes. I, I don't like the way that's done.
[speaker001:] It's been approved, but I mean as interest exactly what what's been approved.
[Graham:] I think they're let us know what they've done.
[speaker001:] Yes, er, I thought the council afraid doesn't understand [LAUGHTER] I must object. I can al always recall what permission we got
[Graham:] The problem is, when you get these letters out, unless you've got a plan in front of you, it's impossible to know.
[speaker001:] Mm. See we don't keep a plan, that's the problem. All we got is a piece of paper, which probably on that one tells the council they recommend approval of this. they don't get no comeback, do you? No. Perhaps Mr Chairman, we should erm, take copies of the plans. your figure. You're not late, are you? No. I think we'll end up with a massive filing problem, if we er, Yeah. try to do that. We've got time. This is it. Any offers, but I don't... Realize, you realize that these may want a new machine for correcting plans which is not er, sort of I always wanted an A one photocopier. Right photocopier
[Graham:] Erm, that concludes of course, the correspondence.
[speaker001:] No
[Graham:] No. Oh, sorry that was...
[speaker001:] circulated here.... [paper rustling] Yes, Graham, have you got
[Graham:] Erm, very briefly, erm, Councillor passed over to me, erm, a report from the planning committee about planning policy guidelines, the countryside and the rural economy, and I thought it was quite a good paper, so we've copied it and sent it round to you. I don't propose that we make a any more discussion than that on it, but it is obviously erm, changing to the way in which they will be looking at certain items in the countryside. Okay. Fine. Tha that seems a fair comment, yes. Indeed... thought you all had copies of that I know, cos I have a copy here, and I'll leave you to digest at your own leisure. Okay. I think it's a useful document, er, Mr Chairman, Er, yes. and I think it gives a balanced view, on something you know may be, you may be interested in the future. But I don't think we should make too much of it at this stage.
[speaker001:] No. I would agree with that. Right, anything else? Yes, we do by the looks of it. No, thought you were going through the erm, plans, this is all the background history to the er, house.
[Graham:] Right, well then, that concludes, of course, the correspondence. If we move on to item three, we see [paper rustling]
[speaker001:] [everyone talking] We have erm... They're only three in the last... No, no, no, that's when they finally agreed I said perhaps some time afterwards. Right, okay. Right, moving on to item four... which agreed to consider a term following plan applications. Application one is outline, for for an agricultural growing farm,. Do we need background to this one? Not really, no, er, we've had several people in to examine it, who thought it was erm, you know, okay where it was, and as it stands. Somebody who lives nearby, came in and examined it the other day, and that's all I know. Well, I think this is erm, replacing the house that's been sold off, really, isn't it, I don't think it was a good idea, really. Which house... The original farmhouse at. Park, they called it, didn't they? sold off the farmhouse, they're living in another one really Yes, Erm, Mr Chairman, it's been brought to my attention, in actual fact, the drawings aren't correct. Er, as on the drawing service, it does show there are already two buildings there. I don't believe there are. There's only one, and it says that it was built in ninety one, and it wasn't, it was built in ninety three. So I think there is a little bit of controversy over it. Yeah,on one is in fact proposed, and one is an existing farm building.
[Graham:] Yeah. There's only one shop that's existing.
[speaker001:] Oh, I see.
[Graham:] And one shop is proposed.
[speaker001:] It's,it it's a grain storage isn't it? Storage of livestock you see. I don't know.
[Graham:] Well, I be I believe we should pass it. I don't believe th that there's any relevance at all in the fact that there's something been sold off. I think what you gotta look out for, is a block of grain here which supports a dwelling. I can't see anything wrong in planning terms, whatsoever. [cough]
[speaker001:] Yeah. I would agree with that, Chairman, but I think that it should be so considered that the building's been built first.
[Graham:] Yep. I agree with that.
[speaker001:] can I just add that the information in this, is in fact incorrect. The building was not built in ninety one, whether there's any relevance or not, where they're trying to prove that the building has been up for some time, they'd say, it's not, that building was put up this year. I built it. I think really I need to say that that someone been creating happens to be that they're not sold off and I don't believe they have sold off [everyone talking] sold it off
[Graham:] But let's be fair about this. You don't know... in this case you probably do know, that the personalities are the same. But... if the blo if that block of land had been sold off, and somebody came along and wanted to put up farm buildings and a house, then we would support it, probably, because there's an area of land there that's viable. I agree wholeheartedly, with what we were saying, what we don't want to see is a whole one house block in the countryside, he wants to see it as part of a farmstead and order to prove that it's going to be part of a farmstead, the buildings should be prerequisite to go up first before the house does.
[speaker001:] Is there not a time-scale That's for the put the details on a, on a smallholding. Well, that's a completely different thing. Ah. So they're saying you know, to, to prove that it's viable they they'll give you poly if you could have a poly-tunnel. Then they want you to run it for two year, have a mobile home, and if you could prove it's viable after two years, then there would be a reminder and we'll consider giving you permission for a house, otherwise, everybody could just put up one tun poly tunnel in half an acre and get a house, couldn't they? Mm. Immediately. Here, it's a little bit different, you've got a five hundred acre holding. Erm, I think is partially right. Some of that land belonged to subsequent farmers. I believe some of that land was farmed with Bishop's Court. And I think this I think I might be right. And I think it's because of the way the farmers have been split differently, and I think this is where it is very essential isn't it, I tell you what The actual lands, I think it is a little bit of different things.
[Graham:] I, I, the butcher's rostrum you know, I'm glad you've made it. What we're actually talking about here, is the creation of a new farm, isn't it? Other part of the other farm
[speaker001:] Other bits, isn't it they took it back, you say.
[speaker003:] Is that house in the middle of the building plot?
[speaker001:] Yeah Yes. As well as the circumstance in all those cases? Yes Yes So when, when they sold off the buildings, they made us no inclination that the was gonna farm it, he was in another job? Yes.
[speaker003:] And then, then what happened then he decided to follow his brother's footsteps and farm it because the farm, the plot of land was available. So I, I think we've got to support this, Mr Chairman. in respect of what happened in the past.
[speaker001:] Yes. No, I, I didn't know where the rules stood time-wise, about at least established as a farm for a certain number of years, which I, why I believe... I think, Chairman, if, if I may, is that we're going to be enough, the agricultural buildings should be built first, but it should sited relatively close to them. And I think he's settled on
[Graham:] Creation of a farmstead.
[speaker001:] It should be a farmstead. We don't want to settle on tie up.
[Graham:] Oh, yes, of course. But, as, as, as it says in the report which we've had this evening, a bit of flexibility, a bit of balance. It's a good job, that somebody wants to revitalize these areas of land.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[Graham:] And as Cardinal said, growth is the only evidence of life. And we could
[speaker001:] And you proved it [LAUGHTER] So can I ju ju just summarize. What [LAUGHTER] qualifications would you like to put on this, if we approve it? something some adequate dwelling. Buildings are put up first. First, yeah. I'll erm, Well related to the... related to the existing er agricultural or related to the agricultural buildings, that will be put up before this is built. Aye. yes All in favour?... Approval... any objections, no, carried. There we go. Application two is a full application for a Mr, Mr in for a detached garage at. I must confess when I first saw the plan, I was totally confused by it. The roads are not quite as they are shown. Erm, does anyone have any feelings on this application? [church bells] Harmless With approval. Yes. approval. With approval. Item three, another full application from a Mr for a single storey extension up at. Looks alright. Again I had a look at it, it seems perfectly in keeping. For what's there. Does anyone have any views? [cough] [clears throat] I, I do support it, but this really was a case here, where people were a little naughty when this was originally built. It was passed for a conversion, and there was a stone barn, wasn't there?... Yeah. That's right. And they, er when they did it, they knocked it all down, and that was really wrong and unnecessary, and though I think some of the flintstone was used, a lot of the flintstone went back in the builder's yard, and it was a criminal thing at the time. So, you know, whilst I'm a little bit reluctant in a way I think that's water under the bridge, and in my view actually the extension improves it all. It does. It appears we've done the same thing with the brick and the flints. I have to say there's a little bit grieving in the way...
[speaker003:] Oh, yeah, but er, all to do with the planning, not past history.
[speaker001:] I, I, I think that that erm, this particular, erm, the way that that, this, the barns once were developed, in actual fact, were, were part of the death knell of erm, Yes. barn policy as we knew it. And part of that barn policy even were it not worthy of extra has always been, that the, once you carried out the renovations to the barn that was, the actual extent of the building. So that, you know, they didn't actually look too far gone. In fact, in a lot of cases where they took away the rights for... Redevelopments. The redevelopment rights. Taken away. And certainly the percentages very never as high as they were on other buildings, were they? No, you could con twenty percent more than the barn that was existing... Yeah. and I don't know if that was exceeded in this case. Yeah. They did used to take away rights, which mainly why he's put his application in for this relative
[Graham:] Yeah. I, I actually think they probably did use up all that was possible available to them at the time, and so, in some ways, this is against the spirit of the policy, although the policies have been changed, and I hear what Councillor said about improvement to the place, and so I don't think we'd serve any useful purpose in stopping these people doing this, because they're probably not the people who were responsible for the flagrant disobeying of the rules at the time.
[speaker001:] Mm. But would that in any way affect what's happening now? [cough] This is just to give you
[Graham:] Oh, that's unfair because
[speaker001:] [everyone talking] Right. All those... sorry, you spoke. That Mr Chairman, to hear Councillor say that, because all we're saying is that these council officers aren't doing their job, didn't they inspect these buildings? We did on several occasions. But... No, I'm, I'm talking about building inspectors, because if it was supposed to have been retained, and they demolished it, and used it, you know, in another way, and not, not built it back. I mean, surely somebody's not carrying out their work? I mean, it's not for us to look into, but, No. it seems that as Councillor brought it up, I don't like to hear that very much.
[speaker003:] This was all took into consideration when this application,
[speaker001:] Yeah. This was all brought up Yeah. But that, that isn't, that would be part of regular Of course it would, yes, but It's not the right subject for application So, all approval. Okay. Carried. Item four, application by Homes, in conjunction with the for thirty six flats for residential development, on the land which I assume is at the rear of House, in erm, I will need some guides on it, because it's a ghost before my time, erm, does anyone like to Yeah. Can I just put the point that it stands at the moment.
[speaker004:] Mr Chairman, we we were interested in buying House, so I think I'm not necessarily to be found erm,
[speaker001:] Can I... offer, if you like guidance. I think it is for you purely to decide, that this application does not affect the house. This application is only the grounds. Mm. I would feel you don't have to... put a particular interest on thinks that's the house.
[speaker004:] No, you, that's it, you're confusing the plan, erm
[speaker001:] Right. Sorry.
[speaker004:] they've just rehashed the old plan, and just drawn a red line round the bit they want us to look at, erm, this bit know it's a computer.
[Graham:] Yeah, I've got, I believe that that should be made clear to you all that [clears throat] the area concerned here, is the area which is surrounded by the red line. Although the plan has been superimposed over an existing plan, erm, to be charitable it's at best confusing, erm, my feeling is that in actual fact the plan there doesn't actually show us, well enough, and you may consider that we ought to be asking for a much clearer plan before we make a decision.
[speaker001:] So what'll they do, some back for thirty more? In the first pla in the first place, they tried for sixty, or something, they should I call back when Could you, could you do this for me?
[Graham:] Current permission, I think at the moment, stands for forty seven sheltered units. That was won on appeal after withdrawal of the highway reasons, and the fact that the local authority hadn't backed up their refusal with more of the reasons which we put forward, for instance
[speaker001:] That was nineteen eighty six. Nineteen eighty six, that was the appeal I attended here. So they
[Graham:] What they've done now, they've got planning permission for forty seven sheltered units. The reason, the reason I keep is, obviously the parking qualifications for sheltered units, are about urgh, forty five parking spaces per unit. This application is for a lesser number of flats, but is not, is looking to clear itself of any encumbrance over occu occupancy. So they're not sheltered, they're purely residential, units of residential accommodation, so you've been asked to look at a at an application for, for a completely new residential block on the same grounds as was occupied by forty seven sheltered units. And doesn't take in the house.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Graham:] Is that alright?
[speaker001:] Yes, thank you. erm I, I erm, I am actually dead against this for various reasons, and I don't think I would bring up all the reasons that I am, because some of them are not absolutely purely planning reasons, which shouldn't be aired at this meeting, but I do feel that the provision there for thirty six properties will create a traffic hazard, and access problems, which, which I feel will support this Council at the, the traffic authority after having done a sufficiently detailed survey, I think was the problem, wasn't it?
[Graham:] That was quite right at the time.
[speaker001:] But to access all those so close to the cable way access, I've given it as unacceptable. I feel that the density, thirty six in there, is totally unacceptable. I also feel that the affect on the adjoining list of properties is unacceptable. I think that's the other, properties is that there's only
[Graham:] Wah, urgh, I tried to argue the point at appeal, erm, if you look up the listing for these properties, er, in the area which back onto the mill stream, it's all the grounds are listed because it says quite clearly, that in the opinion of, they form a group, and it was one of the reasons which I'm glad you, well as you can see, this piece of ground is part of a listing, and although this existing permission, we're looking at it as a clean site, tonight, we're not looking at what has been passed. Our job is to look at putting those thirty six units on what is a clean site
[speaker001:] What is a clean site That is because of my third contribution. The fourth, I think is the effect that thirty six of them, remember it's not older people, it's not shelters affect on the medical centre, and my fifth reason is, I don't believe that the plan, the, that er, the application we've got is detailed enough for us to give permission for outline thirty six. If you were giving outline for building, it would be different. But they're asking for for thirty six, Yeah. and I don't believe that is detailed for us, has enabled us sit here and say, yes, A there's room for them, and B there's enough parking, and C there's enough turning. So for all those reasons I have to refuse.
[speaker003:] I would support er, most of what Councillor has said. What, what worries me as well, is the parking. With that, you must have thirty four parking spaces. One point five, thirty six times, got to have fifty four parking spaces. I cannot see that land.
[Graham:] In actual fact, the one point five stipulation, I think East Devon have now put up to two, haven't they?
[speaker001:] I don't know.
[Graham:] They're in the process of putting it up to two.
[speaker001:] For this type of? Yeah.
[Graham:] For any residential accommodation.
[speaker001:] You're absolutely correct, but the plan is very confusing, very vague. I can't even see thirty six going on there. No. There may be, you know, may be fifty odd parking spaces, but there's certainly not erm, what isn't clear wasn't too sure Two... three storey passed, is it?
[Graham:] One point I'd like to make to er,
[speaker001:] Yes...
[Graham:] backing up, when I er, at, at the appeal, the medical centre made a very long presentation over the proximity, the closeness to their erm, surgery and they argued about the height of buildings, now it got passed as sheltered united, er, which means elderly and quiet occupancy. The fact that we've got partnership holders and sanctuary housing association, would seem to me that we're quite likely to get relocation and we've had all round the town at the moment, and you would have to agree that here is a very strong reason for, for the medical centre to be worried about the effect on the medical centre.
[speaker001:] That's right, yeah.
[Graham:] I, I, I couldn't back that up more strongly.
[speaker001:] Right, anyone else? Care to say anything? list of erm... Yeah, common to, to that. We've got two letters from erm, the two adjacent neighbours, erm, particularly concerned with lack of privacy, car park next to the wall of the properties resulting in noise pollution and potential danger of property from thieves. Pedestrian access will be a short cut for everyone, especially the school children. They've made it a, a, a sort of through cut there, which is now going to allow people to cross over erm, it's, it's going to make erm, two points of pedestrian access shown on the north boundary at the site, will create new rights of way and will become short cuts for pedestrians and especially children. This is undesirable and I ask that they be disallowed, that a child-proof fence be required at this boundary which is already being eroded. Well, that's that one. Now, when this very similar application came up before, it was opposed by the county highway authority erm, had no objection, county conservation er, recommended refusal. Erm, the basis there was development overlook and affect privacy of nearby dwellings of the medical centre. Affect the setting of listed buildings detrimental to conservation areas, increasing traffic, danger to pedestrians, high standard of design not achieved to the site in the conservation area, affect a boundary wall and prob problems of subsidence and no provision for future use of House if used, jeopardized its future should be secured. We also recommended refusal, so did the ward member, and, refusal was indeed recommended. Erm, we commented also on the limited access and congested area inhibits service vehicles, removals, delivery vans, which are forced to park in the main road. Inadequate parking unworkable in this place indicated. Site cluttered would develop into a ru run down area. Psychological trap, whole site too crowded with consequent noise pollution and physical stress to the residents. Fire hazard, poor access in confined space for emergency services. Inadequate sewage facilities with consequent overloading. House would be isolated. Gross intr intrusion of privacy from adjacent properties. Size and shape of the site incompatible with surrounding area. Movement into and out of site would create a traffic hazard. Hazard to pedestrians regular use of footway by King's School pupils and would be impeded by vehicles using entry. Trees would be lost during construction of buildings. Sites adjacent too, overlooks the medical centre, and this, well, this one maybe not so now, anticipated age range and type of resident differs from original concept. That's enough, isn't it? Mm. Yeah. one of two things I think you'll find the reason we said about the on the site, and the design, was it was a detailed application, Mm. so we were able to consider that. Well, of course, we can't consider that this time, because it's outline so, so we can't, you know, you must con Mm. We have to go to We take, take the risk, But a lot of are actually applicable right now, but if those in favour basically resubmit... I think we should be saying, that whilst we agree with the site in outline, we are completely against the proposed usage of that site. Why We can't really say we've never approved it in outline, can we? Can't put... It's in the plan You can't put too many reasons, if you're gonna say the plan is not explanatory. If that's your reason, or you want a fresh plan, conditions. You cannot put conditions where you gonna refuse it, if you can't accept the plan. You can't have both of it. Well except some, some of these reasons were actually still quite clear, despite the state of the plan. You know, you gotta forget that you, you must remember them, that, that it's been passed by the minister. Something's gotta go down. Something's gotta go, whether you give permission before this or an appeal. You gotta have something on That was for wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. And that was You could actually can't it? Mm. Yeah. The basis, the basis that the appeal was, that because it was sheltered, several other providers didn't mean anything, Yes, yes, the traffic
[Graham:] Because there wouldn't be the traffic generation, because you could... although they argued long and hard over the ability of service vehicles to service the site. And the inspector, would in all probability have upheld the refusal, had it not been for the withdrawal, three days before the appeal, of the highways' reasons for the refusal. That was done because the applicants did a detailed traffic survey, albeit on a Wednesday afternoon, and the county council hadn't done a detailed traffic survey, so they felt that if they went to appeal without that detailed traffic survey to back 'em up, they would have been rightly shouted that, or disputed by the applicants that had done one.
[speaker001:] I think you've got to add a little bit to that. It was another one of the er, er the officers' major jobs, the East Devon officers didn't carry forward all our re
[Graham:] All our recent refusals.
[speaker001:] so they only had them, I think the major, they relied on such reports, as the strong traffic reason at that stage. That it would never get passed, just on highways alone. That was the officers' view at the time. Well, I must ad I'm a bit confused by all this, erm, and I don't mean... can I say One or two more reasons here to add, that in the main, I did move refusal for the reasons that I'd listed, which in the main are covered. I'll run through them again, if you like. If you would, please. The first, first reason was highways. And I would say it's on [church bells] highways with your traffic on the access and on parking, and added that to the list, I didn't say that in the first instant. So I think that still is, is the large play on. It appears from what I can see there, that the density in there would be too high, which it would not if it were sheltered.
[Graham:] It, it's worth remembering, isn't it, thirty six properties on one acre.
[speaker001:] On one acre. dense. Dense It's ridiculous, when you take into account all the parking that's got to be provided on it. Yes, how much do you Erm, and the effects on the listed adjoining properties. Can you pass it up, please Which would be the and I forget the three of them, maybe we would list them as well as Riley House. Well, I can't remember how much room there was left at Riley House. I need a majority. How much parking is there left in Riley House? Well, what are you going to do with Riley House, I mean you haven't got nothing yet. No parking at all. So, so, No at all No at all. So, it must be the effect, not only on the adjoining properties, but also on Riley House itself, and the inadequate amount of curbage left with Riley House. Erm, my fourth one was the effect on the medical centre, bearing in mind, but I didn't say that at the time, that there's to be no longer sheltered, and there could be young families, remember, more rowdy an element, and maybe we should make details of that. The fifth, was I considered the plans were not detailed enough for us to give permission for outline for thirty six. You may be able to give outlines, you may be able to Yeah. give just outline of the site, but certainly not. They've asked for a number, haven't they,spec specifically here, which I think that's detailed enough. You may wish to add drainage, I mean, we're not sure there is er, adequate er, capacity in the drainage... Well, that's the sewage again. Sewage, and erm, some developers in the area about contributions, don't they? You know, if they wish to consider that? Well, some of the reasons here can, can be repeated but, erm, if I can just run through these again. These ones, probably haven't been raised... Hasn't been raised. because they might be applicable. Erm, the first reason, is the size of the conservation area adjacent to the listed buildings. It does not preserve or enhance the area in any way. I think that's a fair comment to say, despite not having clear plans. Two storey, three storey. We've got plans of the houses, haven't we? Pictures of the houses. There are pictures of the individual elevations of the property.
[Graham:] In actual fact, you see it, it's, there's quite a confusion, that they come for outline, and given you a...
[speaker001:] Detailed plan detailed plan Yeah, yeah. It is, Chairman, that actually they are down against the erm, Mill Stream, the three storeys site, some of them about three storeys high. Is that clear from the elevation? Yeah, it says so on here, yeah. Two houses Well, that, that plan is a disgrace. It's scribbled all over it. Mm. Difficult to see what you've got. You know just by looking at it,
[Graham:] Certainly say we wouldn't want
[speaker001:] Well, erm, let's, let's look haven't got enough reasons to put down, erm, To what do we have parking within No, I, I... Well, if they're gonna put variations does anyone put three million? Two and three million. It's eighteen, but that's... Eighteen to twenty three. I know it's not specifically related to farming. [cough] You know, I do, I know we can't take that. That's the reason, that's right, yeah I think we covered that. Without saying that.
[Graham:] Well, I think, erm, I'll just run through them. can't say that, let me see, er, inadequate parking spaces, you can't say that, because we're not, we sus we think we suspect inadequate parking, but it's still not clear from that plan what we actually...
[speaker001:] No, I think what we are saying
[Graham:] We've actually said the effect on the listed properties including Riley House, which would be left with insufficient curbage, I think that was the point we made.
[speaker001:] You got that one? Mm. Right. You got And I think, Chairman, we should be reminded that this is a new application, nothing to do with the other one, and I think we should consider this as a new application. Yeah I think we have. Yeah. the reasons were brought forward. Yes. So how many vote... did you get erm Well, I got erm, highways, at the traffic end, with traffic problems, access and but obviously that start doing this Yeah. the too high density for the area. The effect on listed adjoining properties, Donithorn, Riley House and er, the other one, the name escapes me at the moment, erm, and that it will give insufficient curbage to Riley House when er, whatever development takes place there. The effect on the medical centre with erm, possibly, erm, different types of people living there Plans not detailed enough to erm, show for thirty six. Sewage and site in a conservational area, the houses are not appropriate. Yeah. You keep mentioning three storey building if they got to the amendment
[Graham:] I think that's
[speaker001:] The reason, basically the building weeks' solid trouble with them.
[Graham:] Gentlemen, I, I might... I think we should add that the presumption for two accesses on the boundary against the land that is run. Because I think that one of them actually enters in the medical centre, doesn't it?
[speaker001:] Yes, one of the access in the back of the centre, yes, I'm not sure Yeah. see that.
[Graham:] It's on the site plan, there [paper rustling] yeah, they've marked it in.
[speaker001:] what do you want to know? Pedestrian access... is it? Close one of those. Close pedestrian accesses. These two of The trouble is you've got a job to read them, haven't you?
[Graham:] There's one there, one further to the left one's into the land that play area, or just below it. Then one's right in the doctor's area.
[speaker001:] So?
[Graham:] So the presumption that they would be allowed to do that's wrong, I, I don't think that should do it.
[speaker001:] That's right, well why can't they go out beside the medical centre, again? what are you trying to do? That goes into the erm, Playground, doesn't it? playroom, or I don't know. Children's playground, goes right into the playground. Yeah. Right. Bet the children'll have their say. Plenty of I think that's a good enough reason, when I say I don't particularly want to add anything else. [everyone talking] Yeah, that's right. Do we have a proposal? I second it. second it. second it.
[Graham:] All in agreement, with, with views that are recommended? All agreement with refusal?
[speaker001:] Ye yes, sorry yeah. Oh yes. Did abdicate or what? [LAUGHTER]
[Graham:] Right, well the next, the next application is, is not on your agenda, it's application four A. Erm, it was an omission, an accidental omission.
[speaker001:] it got hooked on the back of that one with a large paper clip. It is for a Mr erm, Ridgeway, and it's for a two storey extension to an existing house. Do you have any comments on that? I've looked at the house, looked at the site. Can't see it look up to anybody else. give it approval. I would agree with that. How do we, how do we, I second that how do we stand legally? Okay. That's okay, we don't have to advertise We don't advertise No, we don't advertise. So, that's all right, we don't really that's it. Right. It was an omission on our part. Yes, I just wondered whether we've got a problem or not?
[Graham:] We, we would have if we didn't do it, because the applicant quite rightly said, what, he said was gonna do it without us
[speaker001:] Yeah. Not, not with the timescale I understand it may well be delegated, anyway. single storey Right. extension. Two storey. Two storey. What's the the existing? Looks fine. move for agreement. Item five is a full application from Mr T for er,
[Graham:] Demolition of the
[speaker001:] Oh, demolition commercial oh, I was domestic commercial, couldn't think. Demolition commercial, for the construction of a pair of mews cottages at Ottery St Mary. Does anyone have any comments on that? We do, Mr Chairman, that Looks like it's very inhabitable. Yes, it looks very nice. The old slaughterhouse, wasn't it? Hasn't the abattoir gone?
[Graham:] The old slaughterhouse, wasn't it?
[speaker001:] The building's still there, and the back not a patch on the abattoir.
[Graham:] And er, all the neighbours are extremely happy to see a pair of cottages, rather than any new conversion
[speaker001:] What about the traffic, though? Well, they have to put up the There is access to the area. Is that the site, or is it under development not really.
[Graham:] No, no, no, they're only just, actually fit, if you look at the plan, by creating an access some garaging, There's a maximum allowed to do there. Maximum you can get in.
[speaker001:] What, garages as well?
[Graham:] Garages as well. parking.
[speaker001:] Ain't gonna affect the light of the houses that's already there in, in the street, is there?
[Graham:] No.
[speaker001:] Cos they're always cribbing about, er
[Graham:] Is that In actual fact, you see the plan, the two houses are going to the bottom end of the site, as far away to the adja adjacent to West Holm.
[speaker001:] So don't think they should put three, three properties on that little, on, on that coming out between the butchers and erm,
[Graham:] Oh, that's access, oh, that's access to back of the grocery ones. And we, we, the permission was given to take away the garage. One turned it into a front room and one going down, and two in the alley on the left hand side, one in the alley on the right hand side. Access to three round the back. Access to what was once, but is now house, and was the access to the abattoir.
[speaker001:] Right. motorway next Yes, motorway access is going to be a problem there, the increase traffic. No. I don't see it, I
[Graham:] It's decreased traffic it's decreased the traffic for what was using it as a commercial premises.
[speaker001:] Right.
[Graham:] I
[speaker001:] Getting rid of a nuisance that could be there. Yeah Like getting rid of a nuisance that could be there. Yes. If, if they could use this as a
[Graham:] It is also worth remembering that when they put in for an application for ten flats, the advice from the Authority was that was only development and no parking,
[speaker001:] Yes.
[Graham:] but, that they would look favourably on two.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Graham:] Because I was quite heavily involved with that, and they withdrew that application, pending putting in one to com comply with what they were told from East Devon. [cough]
[speaker001:] move approval. Right, move approval. Yes. Has anyone else giving reason for these
[Graham:] I think we should there. I think we should say that we consider that that's er, would be far better than the old commercial units.
[speaker001:] Very attractive. Enhancement of the area.
[Graham:] Yeah, enhancement, that's a good term.
[speaker001:] I don't know. S Begins with an E.
[Graham:] Well done. [LAUGHTER] You've got that word
[speaker001:] I was afraid that he would say what a pair [LAUGHTER] Right. [LAUGHTER] I don't see it []. Er, Manor, Holden Homes, detached bungalow, double garage at West Hill. Incidentally, erm, West Hill, had copies of those two that are relevant to them, and have no objection. Mm. They have relied, or... Oh, they did, yes. I have no objection, Mr Chairman. Approved. Move approval. Fine. Moved. [LAUGHTER] Yes. Right. Approved. Application number seven. Full application by the Otter Trust for anne annex extension, and it is an amendment to an approved scheme. This is an Otter.
[Graham:] It's alright, isn't it?
[speaker001:] How do you feel about? It looks alright. Move approval. Agree. Approval. Item eight is a full application for a Mr J for a carport, at Miss it's a Oh, sorry. I knew I'd be corrected there. [LAUGHTER] Miss stroke Mr. [cough] West Hill, and I'm sure you're all familiar with the... site. of the site. What's left of it. Could I make the point, that I think the footings were already there, because they'd started their double garage, which they then weren't allowed to have, and I think this is gonna stand on the footings.
[Graham:] I think it's a very attractive site, and I don't see anything wrong with the carport. I think the bungalow's blended in very well.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I already approved of it.
[Graham:] Whilst I was against it initially, I am now very much in favour of it.
[speaker001:] What I'm gonna say, if it goes anything like that plan, I think that that carport looks hideous, actually. Well, it's a trellis work with a poly roof. against it already. Yes. It is a temporary, I would say it's more temporary than permanent. I mean, I know on the plans are not very good, but it doesn't show where there is a roof, presumably there's a roof beside it, just like trellis. I mean, I don't know what it is, and I, I think it looks pretty horrible. it in there, but I, I think a double garage would have looked better than that, actually. I think that's worse than the double garage, and I'm afraid that I disagree, Mr Chairman.
[Graham:] In my opinion, I think we'll have an application for a garage in twelve months' time.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. I think, I think so [everyone talking]
[Graham:] What happened, happened up there, once, once that was lost on appeal, right, the whole of the handling of that by East Devon council just been poor, and then, what did they do, they decided to go for appeal, which was upheld over the garage. What they were really fighting was the principle of what had gone on before. Now, what you're saying is, if we don't allow 'em a carport or something there, they're gonna park outside. Quite rightly. Now do you want to provide them with any parking facilities off parking?
[speaker001:] No.
[Graham:] Parking there without a carport? Well, I can't con I, I think that could be very attractive, myself with the trellis work and roses...
[speaker001:] And gro grow something up it?
[Graham:] Yeah. If it matches in like the rest...
[speaker001:] Er
[Graham:] I mean, I sold up around West Hill you said many a time, how we think that's
[speaker001:] Yes Yeah, but it's very, it is very unfortunate, in my view, the way this system, it's not this council, it's East Devon that mishandled this. You must get back to this every time. The access was never meant to be it was meant to be further in and and we all for well know, the permission was for a drive to come down through the wood, which would have been very attractive and a garage on the end of the property. Which would have been very attractive, unobtrusive and none of us would have been against it, and when they came to put in the application to convert it, making it a meter wider and turn that into an extra bedroom or whatever was, we [shouting] said [] that there was no parking, and we [shouting] said [] what would happen and East Devon went [shouting] ahead [] and approved that, and exactly in everything we've said which was recorded in this council
[Graham:] Quite right.
[speaker001:] And then, you know, I feel quite aggrieved in the way that we've handled it and East Devon have mishandled it.
[Graham:] It's gone into us, and we've done it's here that's looked at it properly, and walked through the trees and even looked at every marking in the trees that were gonna come down. Done the whole job properly, and what happens, in come the major authority and just [clicking fingers] everything we done out the window.
[speaker001:] Right, well, record as well.
[Graham:] I I was just thinking,
[speaker001:] selling
[Graham:] that you may make it a condition of the carport roof, that they would put four inches of topsoil and plant grass there. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] It looks to me on the plan, [LAUGHTER] though that it looks such a flimsy structure, [cough] that you know its gonna be shored up with walls. It has to be walled On the application, the walls are in wood, and that's as much you get with a polycarbonate roof. Yeah. Well, I must hold it up. It's going to look like a garage, Yeah, well How do you feel about this application? [shouting] Are we in approval []? Put it to the vote, and let's get on with it. Right. All those in favour of approval? All those against? I just pass it. that's right. I think we ought to record it to, to West Hill council Yes. No. [cough]
[Graham:] Come on everybody come on Clerk. Alright let's have it. Approved. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Did you say that the ratepayers approved?
[Graham:] Yes. They did. It should be noted. I think we should put that on the list
[speaker001:] no objections from the
[Graham:] But approval recommended by the West Hill ratepayers.
[speaker001:] May I suggest you do that then, I don't like to look the other way. May I suggest you do that. [LAUGHTER] That's brilliant. They're a standard, but they like your carport. [LAUGHTER] This is an interesting thing, you and I vote against it, we are obviously dead against, Well, I, I don't se Well, I, I don't say that everything you do is lost. I don't plan the agenda, any other planning business? Anyone have any other planning business? No, thank you. Planning committee closed, I wish you all a very Happy Christmas. Thank you Councillor. Same to you. Same to you. I got to phone the councillors. What, tonight, or what? Tomorrow night. Sorry? I think I'm gonna have to give my apologies for tomorrow night.
[Graham:] anybody who does fancy it, just but if you fancy popping round my house Christmas morning
[speaker001:] Yes. Aft afternoon and in the evening.
[Graham:] for a bit of grog. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Er, I shall be [cough] unable to attend, unfortunately. What a shame Is there a bus laid on