[speaker001:] Drug abuse wrecks lives and families! So is it here to stay... or could we, all of us, do without drugs? [introduction music]
[speaker002:] We all take drugs in some form or another, some are legal, you can buy them over the counter or your G P may prescribe, those are illegal, but still widely available and used at a price. What we're looking at in this half hour is why and how we use drugs and what we might change. And let's start with a question, do you take prescribed, or illegal drugs? Or have you ever taken? Button one for yes, and button two for no. And if there's anything surprising about that results, it's that nineteen people say they've never taken any kind of drug! Eighty one have said yes. What have you taken, or what do you take? Yes?
[speaker003:] Erm, inhaler for asthmatic attack, well to prevent asthmatic attacks.
[speaker002:] And have you been taking that for quite a while?
[speaker003:] Erm,sin, well... I think, er... about seven years.
[speaker002:] And you would go on taking it because it's a
[speaker003:] I don't need it very often, erm... I'm not a bad asthmat, it's an allergy to animals
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker003:] so it's... a rare occasion have to use it, but I probably have... to have one with me all, for the rest of my life.
[speaker002:] Okay. Up there.
[speaker004:] I take Thyroxin for an under-active thyroid gland.
[speaker002:] Mhm. And these are prescribed drugs then?
[speaker004:] Yes.
[speaker002:] You get that from your doctor? Yes?
[speaker005:] Maccresin for a, arthritis.
[speaker002:] For arthritis, right. Yes?
[speaker006:] I take Tamazapam to sleep. Erm, and I have no side effects to it, I've been on it for quite a long while.
[speaker002:] Every night?
[speaker006:] Every night. One every night. It induces four hours of sleep, and if you sleep after that it's a normal sleep. I waken up fine
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] no problems.
[speaker002:] And how long have you been doing that?
[speaker006:] Erm... nine years.
[speaker002:] And why did you start?
[speaker006:] I had a bereavement, a very close bereavement in the
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] family and they put me onto valium, but having worked in psychiatric I knew the results of valium, so I I gradually broke them down and got off them... but for six full months I couldn't sleep
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] so they did put me onto some. But, I I kno, I do use them as they're prescribed, one
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] per night. And they do help.
[speaker002:] So you've got a drug that you can live with?
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Yes?
[speaker007:] Steroids. My mother takes these.
[speaker002:] Okay. Any others? Yes?
[speaker008:] I used illegal drugs... erm
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker008:] for seven year.
[speaker002:] Yo yo you did do?
[speaker008:] I did, aye.
[speaker002:] Now, now you're the first person who's said you used ill ill illegal drugs, I... yes?
[speaker009:] I've took illegal drugs and prescribed drugs.
[speaker002:] You did or you do? Or yo you
[speaker009:] I take prescribed drugs now.
[speaker002:] Yes. But, did you used to take illegal drugs?
[speaker009:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Well let's, since we've got onto that... why?
[speaker009:] Just to get a hit. Just to feel good, forget or whatever!
[speaker002:] And how old were you when you started doing that?
[speaker009:] Started at fourteen or so.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And how did,an how did you begin? I mean was it... through your... friends or... family or
[speaker009:] You just take one, I just... my pal had a bad or something and... she was prescribed er... a se, a certain kind of sleeping tablet, Tamazapam... and just I started in to say... amounts up to twenty five at the end of the, do you know what I mean?
[speaker002:] It's quite expensive isn't it?
[speaker009:] Ah but... you need it.
[speaker002:] So, how did you change? Did you see
[speaker009:] Er... I went er... er sa... C D P S
[speaker002:] Mhm. Do you wanna say what that is?
[speaker009:] Well it was er... it's Community Drugs Project
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker009:] Scheme. And erm... to get pro... a nurse, like you get a... along with the nurse. She's here... er, and she... put me in a hospital and then going off for something.
[speaker002:] And that was that?
[speaker009:] Mm. Well
[speaker002:] And you
[speaker009:] I'm still on... some stuff.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] But she got me so, over the worse part, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah. And what would you say to a fourteen year old girl... who might be watching this... who might think of doing the same thing?
[speaker009:] Just none of you ever tra... da er, it ruins your life, ruins your family and everything!
[speaker002:] Don't try it once?
[speaker009:] No. Waste of time!
[speaker002:] Would you say the same thing?
[speaker010:] Aye, I would gi that. I would advise
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker010:] erm, any young person never to try it. It ruins and wrecks your own life and family's life as well!
[speaker002:] Well we've got onto illegal drugs, and of course le or, do you think illegal drugs are attractive almost because they are illegal? I mean,th there are other things that can give you a hit. There are, there are legal drugs in our society, and you may not think they should be legal, I don't know, there's... there's er, alcohol, I suppose is the most commonly used one but
[speaker010:] It would start probably because they are illegal, erm... but basically because everybody else running about me... er, was trying it, my friends so... it basically boiled down to peer pressure... at the start.
[speaker002:] So what were you taking?
[speaker010:] Heroin.
[speaker002:] From the start?
[speaker010:] Mhm.
[speaker002:] And did it give you a high?
[speaker010:] At the start, aye.
[speaker002:] And then what happened?
[speaker010:] And then it just became a drug that I had to take for every day use. Erm, had to take it to feel normal.
[speaker002:] And how difficult is it to stop doing that?
[speaker010:] Oh it's very difficult. But now I've been drug-free for over a year... erm... but I'd been trying for a few year before that and had nay managed to... succeed. But through the help er, the group that I'm well involved in, which is Carlton Athletic Recovery Group
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] I've managed... to stay straight to day.
[speaker002:] And what was the point at which you thought... I want to stop doing this? I want to get off drugs?
[speaker010:] Well the point that I wanted to get off drugs was, my family... not wanting any more to do with me, erm, they'd shut the door on me. I've got two young sons as well, erm... they two got took off me into foster care, and that was when I really had to decide it was the either the drugs or the children.
[speaker002:] So it was one day you made the decision and you stuck with it?
[speaker010:] No, not just one day, as I said, I'd been trying for a few
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker010:] year but... the end result came... when the two children did get took into foster care... erm, that's when... I realized that it was a problem and I had to do something about it.
[speaker002:] What what what do you think of those two experiences? Yes?
[speaker001:] I admire them for being able to sit there in front of everybody and say they actually, what they've been through because it must have been sheer hell... er, trying to come off and withdrawal symptoms, I mean, I don't know much about it cos I've never taken... well I smoke and I take a drink, but hard drugs... misused drugs... it just must be shu he sheer hell! And if... they're coming out stating that your families turned their back, they've had enough
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] who do you turn to?
[speaker002:] These, these seem to be extreme stories. Mhm? Er, I do believe that er, if the question was asked have people taken less, you know no not heroin Mm. but dabbled in it in a a younger age? And what the response was to it because, well I I did try it merely... sort of to experience it, and I don't think that it was an addictive experience and Aha. I really don't think there was any ill effects at the time. What, what are we talking about here? Well erm... just er dope re, you Dope. know, marijuana. Yeah. Yeah. Are they bo And having smoked the odd joint I don't really feel Mm. that... it was... it was that detrimental. Okay. Well le let
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] well le, let's ask that tha that question then. Have you ever used... illegal drugs? And I'm not going to pick on you so you can feel free to answer the question.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Button one for yes, and button two for no. I mean, nobody has to speak who doesn't want to.
[speaker008:] Can I answer that question?
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker008:] Marijuana is nothing like taking... heroin, smack, whatever, it's nothing like it!
[speaker003:] I think we should maybe ask the question why youngsters take drugs... and, maybe we would get to the root of the problem.
[speaker002:] And what do you think the answer to that is?
[speaker003:] Erm, sometimes they'll say they're bored. Maybe
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker003:] we have to... try and divert their attention.
[speaker004:] Probably the only way to try and prevent it is to go into the schools... and get people that have been through the proble, the problem theirselves... to go into the schools and try and educate the kids to stay off drugs. Because, you're getting it, I know in the east end of Glasgow where I come from
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker004:] you're getting them as young as... eleven and twelve... and, they're trying these drugs. You wonder how they're getting them. They're getting them because... you've got... old drug addicts going to the doctors getting prescribed drugs that is nay there. Th the one do they really want them? But
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] it does to get them money... because they can sell that... and then go and get the, the drug they re, they require theirself. So they can enter the secondary schools and they're selling it to these young kids that just don't know any better.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] So I think if... what we're doing just now, cos I'm part of Carlton Athletic as well, and what we're doing just now is trying to get into the secondary schools in the east end, and getting this message across to the kids not ee... to buy these drugs.
[speaker002:] Yep. Over there.
[speaker005:] There actually is a drug-wise... project
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker005:] that is run in the secondary schools in the first year... where the children are talked to by the police and they see videos and they are a act
[speaker004:] They must have terrible programmes!
[speaker005:] they are act to they are, asked to respond to
[speaker004:] Aha.
[speaker005:] various situations and they
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker005:] do role play
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] and all sorts of things to try and discourage them from this.
[speaker002:] You don't think that's a good... thing?
[speaker004:] I've, I've used... well I've decided not to use the drug- wise project. I worked in the east end for a year with young people, I think it's very, very moralistic, I don't like the idea of the police coming in and... and teaching
[speaker002:] What
[speaker004:] the the... group work... sessions. I to, I think it's a very
[speaker002:] What what what would you pu
[speaker004:] bad package!
[speaker002:] What would you prefer?
[speaker004:] I think what we should be looking at is pu, campaigning for de-criminalization of soft drugs, like cannabis
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker004:] because... the use of recreational drugs like that is not necessarily problematic. And I also think that we should looking at harm reduction methods, in schools definitely... not drug- wise.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker006:] If you carry what
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] you're saying to it's logical conclusion, then why don't we just... erm, open up Hampden up... sell the stuff there, you know... people, you know, if children want it or... adults
[speaker004:] I don't
[speaker006:] or anyone, why not have
[speaker004:] Well
[speaker006:] it there?
[speaker004:] why not?
[speaker006:] I mean tha I I I I don't think that's
[speaker004:] A lot of that isn't harmful.
[speaker006:] Is is that what you want for children?
[speaker004:] Well we sell alcoho
[speaker006:] Or young people?
[speaker004:] we sell alcohol... quite freely.
[speaker002:] Well maybe you should just
[speaker004:] Quite socially acceptable.
[speaker002:] Wha what do you mean de
[speaker004:] But it
[speaker002:] criminalize? I mean, do you mean that you would mean that you would get it on
[speaker004:] Yep.
[speaker002:] or that it should be a think it should just be available in... in shops?
[speaker004:] With, with certain regulations. Er
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker004:] with er, there would be a certain amount of state control.
[speaker002:] Er, behind you. Mhm.
[speaker007:] Erm... we talk about cannabis being made
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] legal... now, if some of the people here could see the damage... that cannabis does, it's the first step... towards hard drugs! And I don't know anybody... that addicts, I deal with a lot of addicts, and a lot of families... and it all started on cannabis... so, you should nah talk about legalizing... any drug!
[speaker008:] One thing that I think we have to be very careful about, if we did legalize cannabis... there would be a proportion of adolescents... who would get a great kick out of it, but there would those who don't get the kick because it's not illegal. There are people who feel that it's great to break the law, and... a word of caution, that I feel is important, is that the same group of kids will react against drug programmes in the schools. I don't know that the school's is the right vehicle for this... because in many ways, the children who are getting into these things pay more attention to the peer group, and it's more important to have community groups, community cafes, things which are not seen as authority getting at them.
[speaker009:] So why do
[speaker002:] Yeah? Up, up there. Up there. Yes?
[speaker010:] I think we really have to look at the Dutch experience and
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker010:] see... that the fact that in Amsterdam... theyde-criminalized cannabis and they do not have the same kind of problems. It means that the drug squad there can concentrate on harder drugs, and certainly I I pu, a recent interview with a... a police inspector from Amsterdam said he would rather... deal with, you know, he would rather have cannabis users than certainly alcohol, problems with alcohol.
[speaker002:] Mhm. Yes?
[speaker001:] Erm, I just think that over the generations er ma a er perhaps we're forgetting that in the seventies, for instance, er well, cannabis was a... at that time a popular, a popular thing, but you also had ecstasy isn't either the main thing in the in the papers
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker001:] but er, even then if you, if you could go to your doctor, if you wanted slimming tablets, they gave you Dexadrin or
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] a derivative of it, which gave you the same high that ecstasy does and er, and if you didn't it from the doctor you could buy it on the street. So that's twenty two years go, and ecstasy, I think's only the same thing reoccurring.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker001:] It's like er a fashion and because it's on the black market, it's infinitely more attractive. The papers have taken it up, and as such, there's an awful lot of hype about it, and I think makes it more attractive.
[speaker002:] Yes? Well I just wonder you, there has got to be some kind of... relationship between the fact that most people who take drugs live in really run down deprived areas. I mean, I think tha that you have to look at that. Because people have got nothing to do! Er, I mean lots of people have got nothing to do and are unlikely to be employed during that time. So you think, you think people who live in in well off areas, there's lots to do don't take drugs? No!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] You don't think that? Oh well, you know... No, I don't think that, but I think that you have to... I mean there has to some kind of relationship between... I'm not saying it's anything to do with the personalities or anything like that but Yes. it's got something to do with the fact that... people have got nothing to do in those areas, and no cha, no prospects, no chance of getting a job and it's actually quite a purposeful way of spending your time.
[speaker010:] I think that's really patronizing! You're saying that
[speaker002:] No, but I don't mean to be patronizing.
[speaker010:] if I help with addict that they need to compensate for for... er, things missing in their lives, perhaps they just like it.
[speaker002:] Yes. Yeah! Well maybe. I mean there's nothing wrong with... I mean people do just like.
[speaker003:] I think
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] I think if you talk to drug users themselves, we've already heard about some of them talking about coming off drugs
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] if you talk to drug users who will tell you coming off drugs or withdrawal symptoms are not as hard as many people believe that they are. What they do find difficult is filling their day once they have actually come off drugs because they have built up a kind of lifestyle that has already been said
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker003:] around their use of drugs
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] and in areas where there isn't any chance of them
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker003:] getting jobs, they find this... really the most difficult part of staying off drugs.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] I think there's, there's quite a difference, erm, in between physical dependency and psychological dependency
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] when you're talking about taking drugs... and it's been shown that the effects erm... the biological dependency isn't that great and it's no sort of worse than coming off... erm, having a bad cold
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker004:] whereas a psychological dependency is what's really... you know, difficult and what makes it hard for people to come off drugs. And studies have shown that if people are injected, even with not a drug... that sort of, satisfies their need for a while, and what does work is a change of environment for people and that does come down to people not, you know, being able to work, people being unemployed, and also peer group pressure like th, the woman said over there. Erm, if all your friends take drugs then you're more likely to erm, take them and it's harder
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker004:] to break that habit.
[speaker002:] Mhm. In front, yes? You.
[speaker005:] Like the woman said there, there seems to be a lot of help for people who are on drugs, and who then want to come off them, but the after-care service seems to be... you know, a lot... erm, there's not a lot help for the people, they get the help to come off the drugs and then they're put back into the society that they are from... and they seem to still have that pressure to go back to where they were previously.
[speaker002:] Is tha is that, is that true? Are the support services inadequate? I mean there are a number of professionals here. Yes?
[speaker006:] Erm, I work in a project at the Southern General Hospital in Glasgow, and one of the things, there's young who experiment with drugs whether we like it or not, and I think it depends what drug i is available at that time, so we could sit here and go through the different periods of time. But I think, we've not been good attracting women into services, I think, the responsibility that a woman drug user has over child care and a whole range of other things that male drug users don't have. Erm, yes
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] then I think, we haven't, I think we're getting better at attracting women into services and and... providing what they're looking for but we need to hear from them what they're looking for, erm er with, from those services. And certainly, if you look residential centres, which is one part of, of a treatment erm of what we have in Scotland or or nationally
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker006:] erm, isn't very good, for women with children in particular.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker007:] Isn't it also about the hypocris, hypocrisy of a society that's saying that one kind of a drug is okay, and another sort of a drug isn't okay? Erm, I mean one
[speaker002:] Which one is wi which ones are you thinking
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] of?
[speaker007:] Well, alcohol's okay.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker007:] I mean it's okay to come to this studio and, in Edinburgh and walk up a busy street and see people going into pubs and being drunk! But it's not okay to walk up the same street and see somebody using something else, obviously. And, surely it's about erm... helping... [sigh], I don't know how you go about it but the illegality of it prevents people admitting it and asking for help, and taking erm any advice that people can give about using it safely.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] And it's about safe drug use, you know what I
[speaker002:] Mm mm.
[speaker007:] mean? Mm.
[speaker002:] Well, safe drug use is quite a challenging concept. I mean I... may maybe decriminalization is part of that but I, as someone said why sho, why shouldn't people take... er, drugs if they want to, they're allowed to take other drugs? What do you think about that? I mean i i
[speaker007:] Well that's what I'm saying, you know drugs... erm, well you're looking at society where we're given drugs to make us feel better.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker007:] I mean there's a lady down there talking about taking
[speaker002:] Tamazapam to help her sleep and has no problems with that, fair enough! But there was another lady there talking about taking Tamazapam as a drug of abuse... and tha, that's the difficulty. I wonder how many of you have experience of taking tranquillizers? Do you? Button one for yes, and button two for no. And I'm sure that medical people here will correct me if I'm misusing
[speaker001:] Mm mm.
[speaker002:] the term tranquillizers. Well thirty nine people say yes, sixty one no. Of those, of those thirty nine has a, has it been a good experience... or not? Yes?
[speaker008:] No! I had a very
[speaker002:] No?
[speaker008:] bad experience with tranquillizers! My father died erm... sixteen years ago... and I was put on to tranquillizers, up until that point I had never needed a drug in my life, and I was put onto tranquillizers and I had a terrible experience!
[speaker002:] Did you ask to be put onto tranquillizers?
[speaker008:] No. Th we th, I think at that time it was just the done thing, you hand out tranquillizers, erm... but I found it a, a really bad experience
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker008:] and ended up having to take anti-depressants to... reduce the effects of the tranquillizers.
[speaker002:] So you actually became dependant on... the tranquillizers did you or or or you simply had
[speaker008:] Mm.
[speaker002:] such bad experience on them?
[speaker008:] Ah, yes I, and I've never
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker009:] taken one since. And I refuse under any circumstances to take them!
[speaker010:] I'm just going to comment on... the lady over there. I never went to the extremes with heroin, but I was addicted to valium for seven years... erm... and I've been clean from valium for four months... erm... through a drug programme in Brenda House
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker010:] Erm
[speaker001:] I went to the doctor at seventeen, just about to be married and he put me on Librium to calm me down. My parents were absolutely shocked when I went home from the doctor, seventeen year old and... living on... drugs, so so to speak, just because I was a bit excited about [LAUGHTER] getting married []! You know it was...
[speaker002:] And di, did you take the Librium?
[speaker001:] I was entitled to!
[speaker002:] See, extraordinary! Yes? I take Attavan... on on a nightly basis Yep. simply to... shut off my brain to enable me to sleep, much the same as the Mm. lady over there I've no bad experience with it, I am not muddled-headed during the day Mhm. erm, it just allows me... to switch off. Mhm. I didn't know specifically asking for a sleeping tablet. And during the time where Attavan was getting a very bad press, I went back to the doctor and said, would it be advisable for me to change? Mm. I still want something... to turn me off at night, er and is... Attavan that bad? If so, can you give me an alternative? And he said, in the... with the, the drug,th, with the amount that I was taking,the, there was no need to co, er concern myself with it.
[speaker003:] Don't you think that a lot of doctors are too willing to hand out these tranquillizers? They see these weak
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] women coming into their surgeries, highly strung and th the answer to their problems is, give them a tranquillizer and be done with them!
[speaker004:] Ye, I feel actually women go, or people in general, go to the doctors expecting a tablet, a prescription, and are very disappointed if they don't get one. Erm, but I personally think there's a lot of other things that the doctors could be... offering, er, pointing us in the direction of er... relaxation techniques and, all sorts of things. Erm, I think they're quite good at saying stop smoking, or stop taking it but... we don't offer anything in it's place.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker004:] And I think that... drug taking has always been here, it will probably always be here, but in most people's life it's a transient thing, it's a phase... perhaps erm... as animals we like to change our mental state? I don't know, there's ha pu, I think there's a lot of reasons why.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker005:] Rec, erm the lady behind was stating that recent a, I mean recently I had about, er went through a bereavement, lost
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker005:] my brother who I was very close to... went to the doctor... and, instantly he,pres, er prescribed Tamazapam tablets for me, knowing that I myself am a single parent so I have... a responsibility.
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] I've my daughter to look after. Didn't ask me anything! Just looked at me... saw how I was, prescribed the Tamazapam tablets, and I had a terrible experience with those... and that's only in the last year!
[speaker002:] And so, how's that affe, I mean, what do you think about that? Because at the end of the day are we not responsible for ourselves? I mean you don't have to take drugs!
[speaker005:] But you're taking a, a, a G P's word... for it, that these tablets that he's given you are gonna help you through the emotional pain
[speaker002:] Mm.
[speaker005:] that you are going through. They done nothing for me... at all!
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker006:] I had a phobia about going to the dentist, and the doctor wanted to give me tranquillizers... but I didn't want to take them, so I actually went for hypnotherapy which helped.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] In the past we had a lot more... family structure and friends, a good neighbourhood network, but if you had problems... er, you could go, you could talk about it
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker007:] you could... get it out of your system. But now women are meant to go along... on an even keel... and when something upsets them... they think tha e, I shouldn't be able to express this any more, so I'll go to the G P and he'll give me something and then the emotions will go away, but unfortunately they don't go away, they just go wandering, they'll come back again at another point.
[speaker008:] I think there's something that we haven't discussed, and that's that, doctors don't seem to prescribe tranquillizers to men, it's women, and they do wrongly prescribe them to women.
[speaker002:] Is that true?
[speaker001:] No. No.
[speaker008:] In my experience it is.
[speaker002:] Maybe men talk about it even less than women do. I mean do do yo, do you think women take more drugs than men do, whether recreationally or or or fo for their health or... now th, is th is there a particular problem that women have with drugs whether it's illegal drugs or tranquillizers? Yes?
[speaker009:] Do men, not perhaps drink alcohol more than women?
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker009:] And women use the tranquillizers as the alternative? I don't know!
[speaker002:] Well I, no one 's saying much about alcohol! Yes?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker010:] In a study which I did, er erm I find that
[speaker002:] Aha.
[speaker010:] erm... women were being prescribed tranquillizers about three times as often as men... and in fact, women go to see the G P three times as often as men.
[speaker002:] Mhm.
[speaker010:] So, I think the two things go together that way.
[speaker002:] Well let me ask you this question, would you say that using drugs has improved your life? Eighty one people here say they've taken drugs, and probably more than that, has using drugs, any kind of drug improved your life? Button one for yes, and button two for no.... And who knows what they're talking about, those fifty two people who said yes.
[speaker001:] What about the contraceptive pill, that brings a lot of joy? [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Di we []... In,in, indirectly there!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] A final question, do think society could do without drugs? Do you think, do you think we could ever do without drugs? Button one for yes, and button two for no.... And I think you're probably quite right you eighty three! Seventeen people have said yes, we could do, where are you you idealists? What are all the asthma sufferers, and arthritis sufferers, and various people going to do? Yes? I don't think we could be completely drug-free, I mean obviously medical conditions dictate that you have to take medi, medicines Mm. but, when it comes to taking other drugs, for a thrill, yes you could do without them, and one of the ways you can do that is by taking time out for yourself, whether you're a single parent or if you're a... you know, if you're a family, the important thing is finding time for yourself and not for your family or your dependants. I think that deserves a whole programme. How do women find time for themselves?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] We'll talk about it another day. Thank you all very much indeed! Thank you for watching. See you next time. Goodbye.