[Tom Grundy:] I'll be available. Gentlemen, I'll take apologies for absence. I have Alan
[John:] Yeah.
[Tom Grundy:] ... and Ken. Are there any others?
[George:] John.
[Tom Grundy:] John.... Can I just say about Alan, apparently Alan has been in hospital.
[John:] Oh!
[Tom Grundy:] Had a slight operation and er... I didn't know about it until today so... erm... er... Paul 's going to... offer him our good wishes... and we're going to be, I'm told he's home again and it's, it's only quite a minor operation and he's quite well... and that er hopefully will be back again next week. Er, we have in fact... two non Rotarian visitors... as far as I'm aware there are no Rotarian visitors, am I correct in that? Can I then introduce to you... I'll introduce the speaker in a few moments, quite formally, but... Michael who's the guest of Roy.
[speaker004:] [applause]
[Tom Grundy:] And John, who's the guest of Bernie.
[speaker004:] [applause]
[Tom Grundy:] Are there any visits away? Silence is golden! There are no... erm, birthdays this week so... it's now
[speaker004:] There is.
[Tom Grundy:] my pleasure to... Ah! Are there any announcements by committee chairman? Any urgent announcements? John?
[John:] Thank you president. Just to remind members of the club service committee that there is a meeting tonight... at the Green Man Hotel at six fifteen.
[speaker004:] The same about community service... Wednesday, er seven fifteen at my place.
[Tom Grundy:] Thank you Michael. Any other... announcements gents? Right! Well it's now my pleasure to introduce
[speaker004:] No.
[Tom Grundy:] our speaker... Donald... who's from the Engineering Council... and is here to speak on engineering. He was apprenticed as a toolmaker at Vickers Armstrong and has been thirty five years as the college lecturer at Colchester Institute. Including a, an exchange the United States of America... and prior to his retirement was Dean of Studies. Donald.
[speaker004:] [applause]
[Donald:] Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen! It's nice to be able to say that isn't it really? Anyway, what I really want to talk about is engineering for our future in a way because I mean most of you er, listen to the... doom and gloom and all the ni, all the er kind of statistics we've seen that come out of the... Engineering Prize Federation, the C B I, I wish somebody, for a change, would put a little bit of gloss on it instead of actually... bringing up the statistics which show how badly we're doing! But anyway, talking about engineering as a whole, quite obviously it's interesting to go back a bit because I'm always interested in the way the institutions actually started because er... there's a lovely story about er, the Stephenson brothers and tho,ju, having just come down from Scarborough on a mini-holiday we stopped at York and I went over a great big museum there, and quite obviously seeing the marvellous locomotives you realise that George Stevenson had er, a lot to do with that. The interesting thing of course was his ro, his brother Robert was a civil engineer... and the story goes, of course, they disagreed so much that in the end George said okay Robert you can have the civil engineers, I'll start with mechanical engineers! So, during the er, eighteen hundreds of course, you've got these two major institutions started up... and then of course we got the er Faraday when electrical started up, and they got the Faraday. So you really got the big three institutions, but unfortunately, like everything else, they grew and grew and grew and grew, and there's forty five engineering institutions! I bought along this brochure, you can have a copy if you like but I mean at the back there are forty five institutions... all virtually paddling their own canoe. So, quite obviously, everybody got a bit concerned because erm... anybody involved in engineering at all and you go to careers conventions, has everybody got a stand up? It's always a case of who gets there first gets the best position and things like that! But er... the government, a long while ago, actually decided they ought to do something about knocking the institutions' heads together... and they... drew up a plan called the Council of Engineering Institutes, where the idea was we get a little of coordination across the entire patch. Otherwise everybody, as I say, were pushing away and... discipline itself. Well the Council of Engineering Institutes didn't work very well! And, then that famous man who died just recently, Finniston was asked to er, present a report to the government about ten years ago, in which he was going to knock the heads together again and try to get some kind of er... organisation which would actually get the institutions to cooperate and coordinate their activities... and that was the beginning of the Engineering Council. Unfortunately, the Engineering Council ran into trouble with the fact that they did want to put some penal clauses in whereby engineers were responsible for a lot of their actions. You probably realise there are loads of problems, from a legal point of view, you've only gotta think of the... Piper Alpha, and most of the major disasters which do occur. It's very difficult indeed to pin people down, quite rightly so, I mean, you don't immediately want to see a scapegoat or something like that. But, if we had bought in some sort of penal clause, then I mean firms might be inclined to... look very critically at the qualifications their engineers have got. We know some of the major organisations in the country actually do look for chartered engineers with the disciplines of civil, mechanical, electrical... er, gas engineers, chemical engineers, energy engineers, as the case may be. So, the idea was that Finniston bought out this report which would then form another strata over the institutions... and form the Engineering Council, of which I happen to be a member. But unfortunately, again, we're goi, going back history-wise, the civils and the mechanicals and electricals, and you've only gotta go to London and see what palatial places they got just virtually adjacent to the Houses of Parliament you'll find mechanical engineers, and also the civil engineers in Bird Cage Walk. And you've only gotta go... if you go in the Savoy Hotel and just turn slightly left and you'll find electrical headquarters there as well, and quite obviously they are very powerful organisations! Electrical's a hundred and thirty thousand strong, mechanical somewhere about eighty thousand strong, civil's about sixty thousand strong. So when you realise it's somewhere about three hundred and fifty thousand chartered engineers in th... U K as a whole you'll see most of them belong to the three major organisations. Great progress was made! We did have committees and we began to coordinate activities and er careers conventions suddenly sprouted engineering council's banners... and the people all got together again under these banners and we went to these careers conventions and tried to obviously put across the image of engineering itself. But, as I say, this is about ten years ago but we're now run into another problem whereby... the erm... institutions are beginning go back again and want to project their own images, right the way through. So, as I say, that's what I call the erm... negative side of the Engineering Council whereby, we've still got problems with trying to er... coordinate the institutions. I suppose in a way it's a bit like the tail wagging the dog to a certain extent, whereby the er... larger institutions rather want to get their two pence worth, er rather than let the Engineering Council take over. But when we look at the positive side, and that's where we've got a plan... a cunning plan if you watch Black Adder at all! A cunning plan, to do something about organising the careers' conventions. And this is where we've decided that what we really need is young engineers, in other words er, people who have just entered the profession itself to talk to the school children. In other words, I mean I'm retired and I mean the point is that my erm experience goes back into the er... into the dark ages I can almost say because in these days, you probably realise, I mean if anybody buys a video you don't ask... you don't look for the book of instructions you ask about a five year old kiddy how to programme it! Cos I don't think there's many people in this room could probably programme a video itself. So technology has advanced considerably, and what we've done is to capitalise on the younger engineers and we've introduced another phase called neighbourhood engineers... and this is where we rely on the er goodwill of the firms to actually sa let their seconder engineers sometimes, but certainly let them out into the er... into the schools careers convention work places to talk to the actual youngster itself. It works like this, you get the schools involved and realise, I don't know how many have read the national curriculum, bit like the Maestricht treaty I suppose to a certain extent! But the national curriculum quite honestly, is quite wide and also expands over primary, secondary, and also higher education as well. And what we've tried to do is to look at the national curriculum and try to identify young engineers who could go in and help with design and technology and quite obviously, practice what they preach. So we er, schools can approach us as the Engineering Council... and say, we'd like some help, and quite obviously, they all want some help when they look at the actual syllabus of a design and technology itself! And er, we get a panel of young engineers and a panel of school teachers and they actually erm... go to a school, they sit down, look at the national curriculum and decide which parts they can actually participate in... and it's been so successful at the moment, realise the trouble is we're somewhere about five thousand, six hundred secondary schools in the U K you realise it's a mammoth task! You want somewhere in the region of about four engineers to each school so work it out yourself, it's quite a job to actually get the ratio right. But, in this area of East Anglia, which of course, includes this part of Essex itself we have got quite a tidy ratio at the moment of these panels of school teachers and panels of young engineers to actually look at a national curriculum and work out some kind of erm... time cycle... when a young engineer could come in and actually cross the t's and dot the i's on parts which obviously the teachers don't know about. Let me give you one or two specific examples, I'm always interested, having been in a college for thirty five years in adult education, I'm interested in the primary schools and I must admit I get more job satisfaction the moment we go in a primary schools than ever I had when I was in the college itself! And I was in a ca, er school... over the summer holidays and er, we were looking at the design and technology and the point was that they gotta design and make some components, and realise I'm talking about, you know, six, seven, eight year old, mixed... girls and boys theirselves, and it was ra rather heart-warming to see where the way these youngsters react. I must admit, some of you probably were brought up on Meccano, and certainly not in the mo mo more sophisticated technology we've got at the moment, but the point is, a lot of these haven't really seen this part of what I call the basic technology itself... and er, it was interesting because we were trying to build up some kind of game for their summer fair and the game was quite obviously er, you know er propel a ping-pong into a er... series of slots with er, bit like bingo to a certain extent, where you can actually er... give prizes for the various holes you could actually penetrate and things like that. And it was interesting because er, we were talking about propulsion, talking about all types of er mechanics and sciences, and the way they'd write up a report at the end which is part of the English part of it, and one of the youngsters said to me, he said, can I go home Mr? I said, I don't think you can. He said, well I only live next door you know in a, in a village school quite obviously they all lived nearby... and he was only gone about two or three minutes and he came back and once again, the young lady will know, but erm men might not know, I know, skirt hangers, you know skirt hangers, they're on springs aren't they? A, the glazed expression round here is fantastic! Anyway, skirt hangers are on springs and it was rather interesting because he came back with a skirt hanger and also a er... kitchen roll tube itself, he said I've got an idea Mr! And he drew it out actually, remember he's only six, seven years old... and what he'd done was to put this spring loaded hanger into the back of the tube and he'd made a kind of trigger with a little, little plastic peg, and he said here's your gun! And as pulled the peg the spring went out and the ball went like that! Now, that's really great to me because I mean, you're really stimulating the youngsters at that age, and quite obviously I could tell you loads of stories the way this neighbourhood engineers er er, scheme works at the moment... but as I say we are embarrassed at the moment because, quite obviously, loads of school want us to participate but we got a very shortage of engineers. You see, going back in my own experience and er... did mention that I was apprentice with Vickers Armstrong realise Vickers Armstrong re pe, recruited three thousand apprentices! Three thousand apprentices those days! And they knew full well that they didn't really need the three thousand apprentices but those large firms trained no no note my word, for the country's needs, not the company's needs! In other words, I C I, Ingaselectric, A E I, all the big firms, all the er coal mines, all the British Rail, well British Rail in those days, and these large firms trained large numbers of apprentices and then after the five years they tipped you out, I'm sorry I'm going back a long while, into what they call an improver status and then you could either come back to the firm or you could go, stay where you were. As it happened, as I say, I was apprentice at Vickers Armstrong and I moved on, quite obviously, to another firm who were looking for people like this. And quite obviously, adjacent to Harlow was one of the largest training schools ever, anybody trained at a Ford training school was made! In other words, I mean that was a basic kind of training you could get as a mechanical engineer. Now, I mean, I'm talking about Vickers Armstrongs' three thousand, let's get back to er my particular home base, Colchester. Colchester was an engineering base, there's no doubt about that, there was David Paxmans, you must all about, the great big diesel firm, they did some lovely er diesel engines for the high speed trains which, of course, obviously been superseded by electrics, they used to employ three thousand people and when I started in college we didn't enrol their apprentices on the college site, we went to Paxmans and we enroled one hundred apprentices every year... on a five year course, that mean they had a five hundred apprentices in a pool, didn't they, just like that! You guess how many recruited this year can't you? They've gone from three thousand down to eight hundred and th they've actually recruited five! But as I say, and then er, the other one which I can tell you was, which is absolute disaster! Colchester Lathe Company was started in Colchester, they just sold their site to Tescos! So once again, I'm on the gloom and doom to a certain extent, but it does worry me because you see... somewhere down the line, ladies and gentlemen, we shall need this skill, we shall need this pool of skilled people, and at the moment they're just not there at all! Cos I say, when you've got a pool of skilled people who can move about, quite obviously, other firms are gonna be very interested and gonna take them up. So at the moment we are really in a bit of a problem about the number of er... apprentices being trained, or shall we say trainees being trained across the U K, K at the time,a a at all! But, once again, let me be on the positive side because I mean there's no doubt about it there are firms which are doing extremely well in spite of recession at the moment, and they are training people as well, but they're not training in numbers we really need when we go across the patch as a whole. So, what the Engineering Council is trying to do is to stimulate interest. In a way, I'm interested at the Engineering Prize Federation... and C B I have also began to realise that we can't survive, and I'm sorry if you're retailers, can't survive on the service in this country, we gotta survive on a manufacturing industry in this country and the only way you can do that is by having, really a pool of trained people. But this kind of stimulus neighbourhood he engineers point of view is actually extremely interesting and give you a hell of a lot of job satisfaction because you are getting the youngsters really involved in what it's all about. And I mean we, quite obviously, we get them involved with er school trips, as a matter of fact, I've just organised a er... thing I've got here at the moment... organised a er trip... must be a good one mustn't it! Sizewell B... I mean you all heard of Sizewell, we're quite near our Sizewell. At the moment they've a very good training plant for... for Sizewell B, they show you the old erm... magnox station, but they also the pressure water reactor station, and course also we've got the very old one down at Bradwell if you know about, down on the Me West Merseyside, we got the old power station down there. But, firms are beginning to open up and give us an opportunity actually to take youngsters in and see what it's all about. And really, Sizewell B is really a reprovation because it gives you an idea... what the technology's like and how we're on top of that new technology itself. So, at the moment the Engineering Council, with the institutions at the moment are doing their best to stimulate interest into er engineering across the schools. And at the same time, lady and gentlemen, to improve the image, cos you'll still get the problem, you know, I'm an engineer, what do you do? I repair cars something like that! When you realise of course that there's a hell of a lot of erm... scope for well trained, well qualified engineers. And perhaps the biggest draw back we've got at the moment that to ge, become a chartered engi engineer you've gotta have a degree! And of course at the moment there's hardly anybody taking the A levels necessary to go into the engineering stream throughout the university itself. So, gentlemen, what I'm really doing is to show you a bit of the background and the fact that it's not all doom and gloom... there is... a hell of a light at the tunnel... and in matter of fact, we got another lecture on the channel tunnel [LAUGHTER] in a few days time []! In other words, there are marvellous projects going on which really stimulate the interest of everybody, and it's, the Engineering Council's still trying to push them along into the twenty first century itself. Thank you very much indeed gentlemen!
[speaker004:] [applause]
[John:] Thank you Donald. Could I ask er, Rotarian Alan to give us a vote of thanks? Oh, I beg your pardon! Any questions?
[Tom Grundy:] Would anybody like to ask any questions? I'm sure somebody would. Yes Go, Gordon!
[speaker004:] Yeah. I I was interested in you saying about the... doom and gloom which is
[Donald:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah []!
[speaker004:] always spread... a and I I was listening to or or during a programme and it said er, we're always told how firms are going down the shoot! No one ever says... some have been created... and all the time they say there are lots of firms which have been created but they... they never give that publicity at all!
[Donald:] No! At a matter of fact, it's rather interesting that because somebody actually had a go at Peter about this, he's a B B C er... and we er, we shouldn't enter into politics about this, but you know the background of Peter. [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] But anyway, the point is, he does actually bring doom and gloom! And you're
[speaker004:] Yes.
[Donald:] quite right, the statistics he was actually talking about, and somebody actually pulled him up on th, up on this and said, okay you're talking about the number of firms who went to the wall, but what about new firms being created? And, of course, the trouble is, and once again I'm back into a... a bandwagon effort of mine, is the financial aspect, if you actually examine the Japanese philosophy, then their loan system is totally different ours when it comes to regenerating the manufacturing industry. I mean, their loan periods are somewhere about twenty five years whereby you probably realise in this country if a young er person wants to start a firm and he's go to the bank they're not gonna give him much scope at all! But, it's no doubt about it, you're dead right! The number of people who are regenerating firms is quite interesting. And also, remember, the firms, which as I say, were dying on their feet in any case, and I me, I did quote the Colchester Lathe because I felt so... personally about that cos it was Colchester itself... they have actually moved their division up to Leicester itself. But I still say, it seems a shame that they... are prepared to make money by selling it to a... [LAUGHTER] Tescos of all people [] to er... really make money so they can move somewhere else! Which, no doubt there are people are regenerating theirselves, and once again, talking locally again, of course, realise Marconi's are in a bad way but they have got some marvellous er... er new stuff coming along, but the point is er, obviously in the defence industry, in the er radar works, quite obviously you're not getting that kind of demand. But on the other side, what we call space... space communications, and Marconi's have got a marvellous new product, it's well into the twenty first century! But they don't need the number of people they did before. But you're dead right! Okay?
[Tom Grundy:] John.
[John:] President, I I happen to be going on Saturday to the National Final of the Rotary... Young Inventor of the Years' er convention this
[Tom Grundy:] Ooh! Yes! Mm.
[John:] weekend. I just wanted to ask our speaker if he's heard of it?
[Donald:] Oh yes, I have heard it, oh yes indeed, yeah!
[John:] Erm, because I was rather sad, I I tried to instore the Rotary Club in the district... in taking part, or or encouraging their
[Donald:] Mm.
[John:] local schools
[Donald:] Mm.
[John:] to take part... and sadly, there weren't very many! And I think from memory, there was no one in the Colchester area so... quite
[Donald:] Oh well!
[John:] sad but er
[Donald:] I must get in touch with er er
[John:] Well I can give you some names to start with!
[Donald:] Well you know who
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] the ex-President of Colchester Rotary is the principle of the college isn't he?. You know, John?
[John:] Yes, well I have met him, yeah.
[Donald:] Yes, I'll have a word with John about that! [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[John:] It's very er th er... if you like, Rotary is is trying to do a a bit
[Donald:] Yes, that's right! Yes I did know about it. And I'll have a go at John! [LAUGHTER]... Thank you!
[Tom Grundy:] Yes? Alan?
[Alan:] Do you think there are enough places in the Universities for engineers?
[Donald:] Enough places?
[Alan:] Yes.
[Donald:] Well, that's quite an interesting point because there are enough, the only trouble at the moment is not enough people taking the necessary A levels to go into these places. I mean, my own al, local university is Essex, and they specialize in er, what we call, electronic systems theory, and also in basic engineerings themself. But I was talking to a Prof up there the other day, the actual A level, do you know, it's pathetic really, I mean when you're talking about law degrees you want about threes A's at A... and now even accepting C's... A, A level C's for engineering itself! There are enough places, but we haven't got the qualified people unfortunately! Perhaps some of those erm, five and six year olds I was talking about will get there eventually!
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[Tom Grundy:] Any further questions? Er... further to what John said about the er, Young Inventor, we were fortunate enough last year to have... er our competitor, or we had a, we held a competition locally
[Donald:] Mm.
[Tom Grundy:] which I think there were four competitors, one of whom got through to the district final and eventually to the national final that John is going to on Saturday.
[Donald:] Ooh that's good, yeah!
[Tom Grundy:] Erm... we
[Donald:] Mm.
[Tom Grundy:] wrote to all the same places again this year... and the response we got back from the schools was that... this particular year they've got nobody coming forward who they consider would
[Donald:] No.
[Tom Grundy:] be suitable but
[Donald:] Mm.
[Tom Grundy:] do apply again next year because
[Donald:] Yeah, that's right! That's right!
[Tom Grundy:] there are pupils who will probably
[Donald:] Yeah.
[Tom Grundy:] make it next year.
[Donald:] That's right!
[Tom Grundy:] So
[Donald:] There's hope for the future!
[Tom Grundy:] Ah! Yes? Michael?
[speaker004:] Mr er speaker... erm... finance always to a certain extent... and I... wonder about finance in your organisation. No doubt, all the... companies pay money... into their chartered unit and... you, they pay money to... your council
[Donald:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] to run the organisation.
[Donald:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] You mentioned about... training
[Donald:] Yes.
[speaker004:] and the lack of training... do you not feel that the government should put more money into the company to allow apprenticeship to take place rather than of thinking the company's gotta foot the bill every time?
[Donald:] Oh he's got me a on a good band wagon now! Because the trouble is, I can go back to nineteen sixty four, Industrial Relations Act, which I thought was one of the best things ever bought out, whereby er... the erm... terms were levied to do so much training. The only trouble is, it's sporned so many, I think they got about twenty eight industrial groups! But, the major ones, I mean the engineer ones used to levy all firms two and half percent... and therefore, there is an incentive to do a certain amount of training itself, and the finance obviously was self-generation itself. Now, of course, we got problems now where they've all been abolished and is virtually on a voluntary basis, and I say, it'll be rather interesting to see whether Lamont actually is going to release some more money, cos you probably realise at the moment they're cutting back on that particular budget. But I mean, one of the major problems is a fact, these youth training programmes or Y, YP's as they call them, are alright but they're not really getting down to the basic er... training we need! And as I say, you can't really beat what I call the basic training apprenticeships which you're to come through. There's no doubt about it, the government should do a lot more... and... I'm sorry to leave on this kind of... basic note, the thing what really got was when they were talking about the coal miners... and I mean, I know that particular area quite well, where they, they said we'll put some money in for training! Training for what? Cos I wa, I was directly involved when I did a hell of a lot of work for Marconis, they sent me up to Glenrossi's cos they got a micro er, electronics factory up there doing... micro-chips, and one of the big coal mines up there had just been closed down and they said well, there's no doubt about it, you know wha what we gotta do is re-train the miners! But, unfortunately of course, with that type of work, their wives could do it, but the miners couldn't do it!. It's a different philosophy altogether! But I agree with you, more money should be made available, and we won't go into how much money they lost on trying to save the pound! [LAUGHTER]
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[Tom Grundy:] Gentlemen! I will now ask er... Rotarian Alan to... propose a vote of thanks.
[Alan:] Mr President er, Mr speaker Donald
[Donald:] Mm.
[Alan:] thank you very much indeed for... a very informative talk erm... I am actually, myself, er a chartered structural engineer... so, what you had to say was of, of deep interest to me! Unfortunately I'm... rather pessimistic about the situation obviously at the moment! Erm, I think er... your idea of of getting the ins professional institutions together
[Donald:] Mm.
[Alan:] to work for a common goal is... admirable! But, I do suspect that erm... I think we're all probably guilty of guarding our own
[Donald:] That's right!
[Alan:] very
[Donald:] Mhm.
[Alan:] very,je jealously but, none the less, I I think er... it's admirable that er you're attempting to do this! Erm... again, you say that you're going round to all the schools and what have you, and again, this can only be... extremely good because, after all, this is where the future engineers ar are going to be coming from! Erm... ha! Regarding the current situation, recession,i it's... really hitting, particularly my er, my er business
[Donald:] Mm. Yeah.
[Alan:] in the construction side
[Donald:] Mm.
[Alan:] erm... er and... one wonders after all the training where the future jobs are gonna come
[Donald:] That's right!
[Alan:] from!
[Donald:] Aha.
[Alan:] To be absolutely honest! I think that er... quite honestly, if so if something doesn't happen shortly we'll all be making ping-pong
[Donald:] [LAUGHTER]
[Alan:] [LAUGHTER] ping-pong ball []!
[Donald:] [LAUGHTER]
[Alan:] Erm, and, and I think... sadly, as well the problem is that if this recession does go on for any length of time then we will be losing many of our
[Donald:] Mm mm.
[Alan:] erm... manufacturing
[Donald:] That's right!
[Alan:] skills!
[Donald:] You will indeed!
[Alan:] And which we will never get back!
[Donald:] Mm.
[Alan:] Er, as I say, I'm ra, I'm very pessimistic about it at the moment but
[Donald:] Ha!
[Alan:] none the less, thank you very much indeed Donald for giving us a very er... encouraging talk!
[Donald:] Mm!
[Alan:] Erm, informative and probably above all, a very enthusiastic talk!
[Donald:] Mm. Yes!
[Alan:] I'd like to ask all the members
[speaker004:] Yeah! Yeah!
[Alan:] to show their appreciation in, in the usual way.
[speaker004:] [applause]
[Donald:] I've got some brochures if you'd like to take them away.
[Tom Grundy:] Mm.... How's that for timing!
[Alan:] Yeah,!
[Donald:] He was kicking my leg all the while!
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[Tom:] Oh, just one little notice I do have that erm... several of us are going on Thursday to the, on the trip to Docklands by the erm... erm... Rotary Club of Sawbridgeworth... erm... I'm told that there are still one or two... odd seats if anybody wants to come at the last minute... er, he doesn't anticipate he's going to erm... fill them so even if, late Wednesday night you suddenly find you are available, by all means, contact and I'm sure it can be arranged. Er, it's seven fifty per head... coach from Harlow at nine in the morning... get back again about five, we intend to beat the rush hour... and it's a conducted tour of Docklands... and the city airport... with a guide, and also viewing of the visitor's centre at Docklands, and then about two and a half hours, probably three, to roam around the area yourself. If anybody's interested... contact me and I will be only too happy to... put you forward. I've also had a call from, you may remember... er, Phil of the er, the was to give a talk to the... Bishop's Stortford club in the form of a speaker evening. I understand that that, that has now been cancelled... erm, at least, the speaker has been cancelled but the evening still goes forward on Monday the sixteenth... and they've now got a jockey... whose name I can't remember, I'm sure John would be able to help me but er
[speaker004:] [LAUGHTER]
[Tom:] he's one of several. Erm... er, who will giving the talk for them. Er, at the time, we had no response when this was announced by Jim... erm, it does in fact clash with our... council meeting... but in view of the fact that erm... our business meeting Se, in December is not until the second Monday, I would be happy to put the... erm... council meeting back to the following Monday if there was sufficient interest from the... members. But erm, if so, please get in touch before Wednesday as they've, he rang me up last night and asked for... a final figure from us... which he must
[speaker004:] Right.
[Tom:] have by Wednesday. Erm... eight pound fifty is the cost on that one gentlemen. It's seven fifteen for seven forty five... at... presumably their club meeting place which is the erm
[speaker004:] Oh! school.
[Tom:] Yeah.
[Tom Grundy:] [whispering] Centre [].
[Tom:] I can't see the name there. However... anybody interested get in touch and we'll sort things out. Gentlemen, the sergeant at arms!
[speaker008:] Thank you Mr President! Next week we're going up the river! We're going with Mrs Gill on their canal boat project and our hosts... are Michael and Ken.
[Tom:] Thank you gentlemen! I'll now close the meeting with the final toast... will you please join me?... The toast is Rotary, the world over!
[speaker004:] Rotary!
[Tom:] Thank you! Well done!
[speaker008:] Okay! Any,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker008:] they're five P gentlemen! Would you like one?
[speaker004:] Yes I'll have one please. No thank you. Hello Mike! Alright?
[Donald:] Would you like one? Yes, go on then!
[speaker004:] Thank you.
[Donald:] Yes.
[speaker004:] Very good!