[speaker001:] Interview with Patrick. Good erm Patrick you've got all the information did you?
[Patrick:] Yes I did.
[Rod:] What did you think of the brochure?
[Patrick:] It's very comprehensive actually. Nice quality erm that's
[Rod:] Great thanks very much. Erm while I'm having a look through this er Patrick erm over there on the table we have a selection of the product er
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] printed product that we market across the six companies.
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] Erm they won't all have been mentioned in in the brochure because we've introduced one or two in the last erm year or so. While you're looking through that er I mean I mean I'm gonna ask some questions but there's a chance to have a look through... Oh spent a bit of time er in the sunshine aye?
[Patrick:] Yes just a bit.... Oh well most of it was indoors actually.
[Rod:] In terms of er marketing you say you've got timeshare and marketing here but you you didn't actually to the selling then?
[Patrick:] Well I did selling side of it but er what resorts tend to do is they get a marketing company in to sell a particular resort and
[Rod:] Oh right okay.
[Patrick:] then once the resort's sold the marketing company will go to another resort.
[Rod:] Okay.
[Patrick:] It's from there.
[Rod:] You didn't seem to have very much luck with these last two did you?
[Patrick:] No [LAUGHTER]. Erm unfortunately they didn't live up to the expectations. I mean er take the
[Rod:] Yeah.... Er depending on how today's discussions go we'll need a couple of erm references on er
[Patrick:] Yes I
[Rod:] We say professional people but erm we're we're talking about people who er are in a profession. It's er we solicitors accountants well we that just gives you some feel for it.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Er
[Patrick:] I could have put my doctor down but he's down in London so I'm in the process of changing doctors again.
[Rod:] Oh are you right. Did you live down there at one time?
[Patrick:] I lived down there for about five years.
[Rod:] Yeah right.... Now you spoke to my colleague er John Patrick erm and he would I hope have mentioned how important it is to have a car.
[Patrick:] Yes er
[Rod:] You can't do this job without a car.
[Patrick:] basically. Erm at the moment okay I've sold my my last car recently erm I am looking for another. At the moment I got access to two cars. My mother and my sister so it's not a problem in the short term. Er but obviously I I would need my own transport.
[Rod:] Yeah er and er I'll be quite frank with you erm until I start talking to you in your background wouldn't come anywhere near what we want. And I'm surprised erm there there is no what I would quote traditional sales er experience. I don't count retail as sales experience I have to say.
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER] Okay yeah. [] I mean I understand
[Rod:] No I would but I would have told you that on the phone.
[Patrick:] Yeah. I understand why you would say that.
[Rod:] And I I really can't count your timeshare marketing that's only for four months this year. So erm [door knock] excuse me. Turn this off a minute. So so there are there are a number of camps here I think that we have to get out the way before er
[Patrick:] Okay. Well what I would say on the retail side of it, okay admittedly it's not field sales it's not cold calling
[Rod:] Mm.
[Patrick:] er people come to the store to buy a kitchen or a bedroom. But it's not the same type of sale as as shoe salesman in a
[Rod:] I would go on with that. I will I will definitely give you that [LAUGHTER].
[Patrick:] You know so there is not only is the product design here it's er selling the kitchen but actually closing a sale when there's other various options on the market. You know there's there was Texas B and Q er Moben Kitchens that type of thing.
[Rod:] Plus plus the er Kitchens Direct and people like that?
[Patrick:] That's right. Certainly.
[Rod:] Face to face that's the difference. Er face to face sales erm you know from John's conversation with you what we do.
[Patrick:] Mm.
[Rod:] That we close everything on the on the phone.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] There's no face to face in terms of selling.
[Patrick:] Okay so there's no appointments
[Rod:] No.
[Patrick:] set up you know.
[Rod:] The one thing about advertising er Patrick is that we tell them everything on the phone. You er when it comes to erm er whatever you are selling in tradi what I call traditional and retail sales, so that retail sales sometimes have a price tag up there.
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] Er you can usually you still have to work out and measure what er what the kitchen needs or the bathroom needs
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] or whatever. Conservatories er double glazing all of those you can see you can legitimately sell the appointment on the phone.
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] In advertising you tell them everything on the phone
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] because you can tell them the price the size what
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] we're going in. And in fact if you don't do that and you you get face to face like this with me and say well oh wait a minute you didn't tell me that on the phone last er or otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to see you. So there's lots of reasons to blow you out. That's the difference. However, erm you know you came back about the retail aspect of course and most of our traditional sales people have never had telephone experience in that sense.
[Patrick:] Yes aha.
[Rod:] So erm erm in effect your selling starts er well we won't count anything before that in er in nineteen eight six.
[Patrick:] Mm.
[Rod:] I will discount those timeshare marketing there's four months in that erm with two companies wouldn't count in terms of what I would call overall experience.
[Patrick:] Okay. I mean it was invaluable in some sense but erm
[Rod:] [LAUGHTER] It was experience [] especially for the reasons
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER] Yes. []
[Rod:] Okay let's go back to what you say here. Why do you think you can make a success of a self employed direct sales job selling advertising. I don't think I can I know I can. If I can tell you that some of the the erm what I would call direct sales people have said they think they can sell advertising and are now in another direction or still resting
[Patrick:] Mhm yes.
[Rod:] what makes you think you can do that? As er you've not even come close to being involved in anything like it.
[Patrick:] Well that's true. Erm but it comes down to basically believing in well
[Rod:] Mm.
[Patrick:] several areas. I mean first of all I would need to believe in the company the product and that the quality is saleable.
[Rod:] Did you did you spot anything
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] in the brochure?
[Patrick:] Erm well I mean there's you've definitely a professional approach. Er you're large company er over quite a probably quite a large market
[Rod:] In in our own field you you could say so.
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] You compare it with other
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] organizations of course twenty million pound turnover or twenty million pound company doesn't sound very much but it certainly is in its er
[Patrick:] That's right even from
[Rod:] In advertising.
[Patrick:] Even from er the quality of the brochure I mean you can see you know I mean that's quite high level
[Rod:] Mm.
[Patrick:] er quality. Er on that on those terms. Now to sell that over the phone when you haven't got the brochures and to do is a difficult side of it. But given I I believe in the product and I believe in myself
[Rod:] Mhm.
[Patrick:] it's a it's a conveying of that belief. Erm okay it's it's a cold call if you like er terms so I mean there's no get out for me. There's a bridges are burnt if you like.
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Patrick:] Erm so in that end I've got to believe in myself or I won't sell it.
[Rod:] Yes you're right. And I'll tell you right now that unless you listen to the people that have been doing it for twenty years, in other words you don't make appointments to go and see people to talk about
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] advertising, because a lot of sales people join us and they won't listen to that they think they know better
[Patrick:] Mm.
[Rod:] and they fall flat on their face in the first week or so. Erm we will chase our tails.
[Patrick:] Yep.
[Rod:] So it's very important to get er over that. Erm I still have to come back in some ways Patrick to er this this no car situation. Er
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] I will I would say that if you had been speaking to me on the phone, and this is not a criticism of John it's just a an observation, you wouldn't be here. Because the one thing I do establish I tell people come and talk to me when you've got a car.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Because we've had we've spent an awful lot of erm money and time in taking people into the system who say they will have a car when
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER] yes []
[Rod:] they come down for the course and they don't have one.
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] Erm and anybody who tells me that they're gonna get one and arrives by train at the course whatever their excuse I would be suspicious. [break in recording] Let me just explain where er what the erm options we have here today. Erm what the purpose of these discussion are. John would have heard enough of you on the phone to be convinced that it was a erm right for you to have a chat with, could
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] have been him if it had been in the south, with me. Erm he will not have asked that time honoured question do you have a car otherwise he knows what er
[Patrick:] Sure.
[Rod:] the difference would be. Erm but the the point about today's discu discussions I don't call them interviews because er it's a self employed situation. Now you're thirty three
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] Erm that's another thing that would may have persuaded me not to talk you into er self employed except you were already experiencing that I guess were you in timeshare?
[Patrick:] Yes basically when you are self employed.
[Rod:] You didn't you didn't have a basic...
[Patrick:] No it was commission only.
[Rod:] er salary? But up to that time up to last year you were
[Patrick:] In a fairly secure job with erm you know
[Rod:] Yeah what er [blowing nose] Excuse me. What makes you think that you will settle down at your age in self employed?
[Patrick:] I think ultimately er you want to make any money in the world you've got to be erm Also er it's all very well saying right you've got the security of a basic wage and all the rest
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Patrick:] of it er but I'd rather be viewed on my own merits on my own worth er be willing to take a few risks in life erm and know that I've got the rewards at the end of it for making a success. Then I'm inclined to go for myself. Er well on on a this kind of level I mean
[Rod:] Yes sure.
[Patrick:] not not look at go for the customers and the deals I think and all that the backup. But ultimately if I don't go out there a do it no one else is gonna do it for me. It's not handed on a plate or anything.
[Rod:] Sure.
[Patrick:] Er but I've got the potential to make a lot more money as a self employed person.
[Rod:] Okay well if you don't mind my I have to er because it does affect whether you're you're gonna be able to erm sometimes earn the right money. Erm your marital status is divorced.
[Patrick:] Mhm yes.
[Rod:] You have your kiddies there to look after you're going self employed, you're gonna have to really make sure you've got enough money I guess.
[Patrick:] Okay that er
[Rod:] Now I'm not going into er your that personal side of it but you understand how important that is for
[Patrick:] Sure.
[Rod:] er to make sure that we're giving you the right platform to earn money to to keep all of your er aspects going.
[Patrick:] Oh that's fine.
[Rod:] Erm that can make you of course more hungry. [LAUGHTER]
[Patrick:] Yes that's what I was gonna say.
[Rod:] Would I be right?
[Patrick:] Yeah. I mean obviously er there's a drive that's an extra motivation. I've got to make that money for my kids. Yeah. Er I think any married person has got to be in the same situation and so
[Rod:] Sure. Okay. More so if you er if if you're looking at
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. []
[Rod:] looking at doing this again by the way.
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] [clears throat]. Okay Patrick. Erm three things we're gonna decide today whether you and I think that is gonna be the right platform for you. Okay? With the reservations that I have erm I'm I'm gonna have at the back of my mind all the time. Er and the other thing of course would be the er very important aspect of er whether I think you can come over on the telephone right.
[Patrick:] Right okay.
[Rod:] Although John really should have established that already so it wont be. Er once we decide whether that is the right situation for you or this is the right situation for you erm we then look at the options we have in which company that Patrick might feel most comfortable with. And the final aspects is when.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Er obviously you're immediately er available.
[Patrick:] Yes that's right.
[Rod:] So that doesn't present too much of a problem. Erm two things I have to protect here today. Is your self esteem and self confidence.
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] In other words not putting you into an area I think you might fail miserably at. Sorry not fail not success at which is a
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER] Okay yeah. []
[Rod:] I don't like that other word. Erm and er secondly I have two thousand pounds worth of company's money. Because that's what it costs to take a person on do the training me coming here er interviewing
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] and also er setting up the first assignment for you. So there's a chunk of money. Two things there. More importantly for for you is that would I be taking a hell of a chance in putting Patrick into selling advertising when the background there is is not necessarily there erm tell me why I should?
[Patrick:] Okay, well I mean there are var various people that enter sales as you know they've probably been a plumber or something and gone into it. I'm not one of those. I do feel that I was introduced into it perhaps gradually erm on on a on the retail side er but sales is gonna be my career with. Erm so ultimately I mean I've got to decide which company is best suited for the area that I want to go in. Now advertising strikes me as an area that I I feel I can put make some input into. Erm and without s sounding too pretentious about it I mean there are I can see this as being a sort of mission if you like. Er for instance look at the doctors' leaflets, the brochure goes on about er how much the money has been saved for the health council and all the rest of it. It's worthwhile it's not just erm like, I don't know if I can give you an example erm
[Rod:] Can I stop you, is that your normal voice?
[Patrick:] Is that my normal voice?
[Rod:] Yes. If it is you haven't got a chance in hell.
[Patrick:] I'm a bit hoarse.
[Rod:] Mm.
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] I hope you don't I I can understand
[Patrick:] Yes sure.
[Rod:] It is so vital to us that if that is your normal voice you haven't got a cat in hell's chance of doing it.
[Patrick:] Okay it's not [LAUGHTER] my telephone voice [].
[Rod:] It had not be
[Patrick:] It's probably my interview voice. That's what it is
[Rod:] It had better not be it had better not yeah well you see see how important that I it it on the basis of your voice now you might as well walk out the door. I I'm as I'm as up front as that.
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] So
[Patrick:] Yep absolutely yeah.
[Rod:] You know what I mean? [LAUGHTER] It's very important. [] But once again John would have heard I hope something different on the phone. But if I don't hear the same sort of thing I don't want any more problems put in our way to make that decision
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] about whether for you. Sorry to break in I wanted I wanted to make
[Patrick:] Yeah exactly.
[Rod:] sure that you could up your voice a bit okay.
[Patrick:] Okay right.
[Rod:] That's not for the tape that's for
[Patrick:] No yes. That's right I mean er that that is important. Erm okay interviews tend to be an artificial sort of environment.
[Rod:] This is discussions.
[Patrick:] Erm yeah as you say it's discussions. Erm
[Rod:] I'm still going to be tough though. [LAUGHTER]
[Patrick:] Absolutely erm Right
[Rod:] I've put you off your stroke but that was not
[Patrick:] No that's right.
[Rod:] that was not intended to see if you could survive that, although that does happen
[Patrick:] That that happens on the phone anyway.
[Rod:] I just wanted to make su certain I wasn't hearing your normal voice.
[Patrick:] Yes. Erm I have been a bit hoarse lately but that's neither here nor there. Erm
[Rod:] Don't we all get that.
[Patrick:] Okay er It's it's selling an idea erm without any visual aids so obviously the voice is gonna be the most important part of it. Erm but picking up on that erm for instance I mean er first first impressions are the most important. Erm what I would do is go into a situation I'd still dress as smartly you know and all the rest of it
[Rod:] We're very much a business suite company yeah.
[Patrick:] Yes. You would have to be. Cos you feel good about yourself. You feel more confident in dealing with that even if it over the phone anyway. Now erm that might come in come into the car. I know the car's essential but for instance if you're going to an estate agent you're not running round using the car in company time. In the short term I think that's an area I can get over that until I get a car which
[Rod:] How can you get over that? How do you mean?
[Patrick:] Erm well let's say for example I was in posted in for
[Rod:] Yes.
[Patrick:] four weeks or whatever. Erm in that case I would need to get accommodation over here or tran commute from
[Rod:] You will still need a car.
[Patrick:] I'd still need a car.
[Rod:] Absolutely.
[Patrick:] Yep.
[Rod:] You cannot do one single bit of this job you cannot come by train to do it because what, you may not dash around we hope you don't because if you follow our advice
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] you make appointment er you make appointments only to sign
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] the contract.
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] But you may still have to go ten miles
[Patrick:] To sign the contract.
[Rod:] to sign the contract.
[Patrick:] Sure.
[Rod:] One way. So don't even think. There's there's no short term answer to this except a car from day one.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] All right. So there's no there's no way round that.
[Patrick:] All right.
[Rod:] I may have to send you a hundred miles to Aberdeen.
[Patrick:] That's true. Erm okay well in that case er what sort of time scale are we working to I mean how soon do you need somebody here?
[Rod:] Oh I I as far as we're concerned er the when bit is if you were are available er now we could even put you on this Thursday. If we were talking medical practices.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] But we're not. We could put you on next week.
[Patrick:] Okay. Right so
[Rod:] It it's that quick. And some people say okay can I start tomorrow. But you know we we we we couldn't get the we couldn't get the paperwork done that quickly. So yeah we're talking we're talking in terms of starting we're talking about next week or the week after. People who go out of that door have committed themselves to a date.
[Patrick:] Yes I understand.
[Rod:] Now if you said to me er I wou to to be able to get myself fixed up with a car then I need two weeks and that that suits us anyway you know if if you wanted to start next week and everything went right fine. But the week after is
[Patrick:] I think I'd be looking at two to three weeks
[Rod:] All right fine.
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] My my er my the convincing I have to do in myself and and you have to do it for me is whether this is is the right platform for you. You're gonna go into sales anyway you said that.
[Patrick:] Yes that's right.
[Rod:] Erm say say we'd agreed that you know you come and you come and have a go er not have a go, we would like to think people stick with us because we've got plenty for
[Patrick:] Right yes. people to do.
[Rod:] Erm here's a launch pad er for Patrick to to earn substantial money, there are five companies there, ignoring the er area health authority er arena because we haven't got that up here, er which company do you think or which environment do you think you'd be most comfortable in?
[Patrick:] Right well erm
[Rod:] Estate agents, medical practices, schools, golf clubs? And there
[Patrick:] I think
[Rod:] are two there are two companies within the estates.
[Patrick:] I think the estate agents erm probably is the most likely. Erm I do play golf I mean that's neither here nor there. I think the estate agents simply I do know a bit about the housing market erm
[Rod:] Where from?
[Patrick:] Mainly from my my M F I experience as a retail salesman I mean I dealt with contractors erm that for instance you know did up did up complete complexes bought loads of kitchens and bedrooms and that type of thing let er letting companies
[Rod:] Mhm.
[Patrick:] doing up and things like that. Er
[Rod:] You've mentioned estate agents
[Patrick:] Yes erm
[Rod:] I will tell you right now that I don't think you would make it in estate agents.
[Patrick:] Okay. Why
[Rod:] And that's why erm on the basis that the estate agent er companies are very specific about sales background.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] All right? Because of the experience they've had over twenty years. We've had those for twenty years. However, on the medical practice side okay they feel that may be somebody with you background might suit there better. In fact I can only suggest that's the only area I can put you in.
[Patrick:] The medical side?
[Rod:] Yeah.
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] Now you er it was interesting to hear what your choice is but now I'm gonna have to step in and say yeah
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] yeah in effect I can't give you any choice because I know that the medical practice erm are very much more erm not laid back that's the wrong term because erm they they have a lot more opportunity for you to succeed. Because of the environment.
[Patrick:] Right I can see that the estate agents have or the estate agents are more sales orientated anyway that's that's people
[Rod:] Well estate agents have never sold a house in their lives, they move paper.
[Patrick:] Sure.
[Rod:] The occupier of the house usually does the selling.
[Patrick:] That's yeah.
[Rod:] Sorry I've sold seven houses I'm a bit prejudiced against estate agents
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] cost I've done all the selling and not them. Er however I I I can I really am talking about one area here
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] and that's the medical side. So if we're we're if we get if we get past that erm er that that point of am I going to take a flier. And I would if I'm gonna use that term because I think I would be taking a flier with you. But I think it would be an opportunity.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Erm can I ask you what other opportunities you are looking at anyway?
[Patrick:] Erm what with other companies?
[Rod:] Yes I would expect you to be looking for a salary and wherever
[Patrick:] That's right. Er okay I mean we can talk on on-target earnings of twenty five I've put twenty thousand there but that's probably
[Rod:] Yeah fine.
[Patrick:] a bit low now. Erm I have had a couple of interviews with a couple of other companies er
[Rod:] What type?
[Patrick:] Advertising as well funnily enough but er this isn't there's one that er a couple of days ago Marketing which is a Cumbernauld ex-company
[Rod:] Mhm.
[Patrick:] er but that's on advertising notice boards and social clubs that type of advertising.
[Rod:] Right okay.
[Patrick:] Er
[Rod:] What's with advertising?
[Patrick:] What's with advert erm
[Rod:] Well yeah I mean
[Patrick:] Well
[Rod:] It it has to be the most difficult sell in the world selling selling a piece of blank space.
[Patrick:] I don't know I mean er I thought timeshare was perhaps the most difficult area.
[Rod:] Yeah you've got something to show.
[Patrick:] You've got something to show haven't you. But er you're dealing with a person with with pot er prospects that are
[Rod:] I mean I'm a I'm a very I'm an owner so I'm
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] I'm very pro-timeshare.
[Patrick:] Yeah? Erm so I'm an owner owner which is why
[Rod:] I'm the best salesman one timeshare could've got.
[Patrick:] That's right because er you refer to it. Er yeah I'm mean in that sort of environment you're dealing with people that don't want to be there know this timeshare thing. They've all these people in receptions or whatever is you know it's a rip off it's a con all the rest of it. Er and
[Rod:] Which of course is what advertisers would tell you as well.
[Patrick:] Well yes they will do. I mean it it's it's
[Rod:] But not such a rip off
[Patrick:] fair enough saying you know the grass is greener somewhere else but I don't believe that necessarily. Erm advertising is something that people need to do in order to succeed. You can contributed to their success.
[Rod:] But they would tell you all the time that oh I don't need to advertise
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] doing very well thank you.
[Patrick:] Oh they they might do that but then er if you can be selective in other words I mean if they've got competition and the competition's advertising they've got to come come to terms with that. You know and er equal if not better it.
[Rod:] Right okay. Let's get let's get the hurdle. Patrick I'm I'm gonna take a flier with you all right so we can save it. But the only place I'm gonna put you in, that's that's because I think your style and personality will fit there. It might well do in schools as well
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Okay? Although you're not we don't ask for education but your background's not exactly in academic area.
[Patrick:] Well erm [phone rings] I did a degree diploma and that which is now a degree erm at
[Rod:] Hello? Could you offer her a cup of tea and say that I'll be er about fifteen minutes or so? Thank you bye.
[Patrick:] I mean academically I'm studying with the Open University at the moment on a a maths course.
[Rod:] Okay. No well we don't ask for education so it's not important.
[Patrick:] Sure yeah that's right.
[Rod:] But some times when I when people tell me that they've been in a certain environment. You see once again it's the environment we want to make people if I'm gonna ask you to succeed and back up my judgement
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] I don't want it to be questionable I want I want to make sure that somebody whose gonna be in that environment will settle down. So I want to talk about medical practices er
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] and if we can get that out of the way. There are two things that we have to look at I need two references
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] okay? and do need to be reassured about the car. And quite honestly you need it when you come on the course.
[Patrick:] Mm.
[Rod:] If you drive down to the course that needs to be your transport when you get your first assignment.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] If there's any hint that you do not have your own car then I will play you out as well as the company. And the course is the final decision point. I may put on my notes that this this guy may not have the background but there is something else I've seen or we've heard on the phone
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] but in the end they will test you out.
[Patrick:] So
[Rod:] and they will then they will say, Not going to do this.
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] You'll still have to convince them all right?
[Patrick:] Well
[Rod:] Let's get that out the way shall we Patrick?
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] I'm going to sh er there's a pack that I am going to let you take away okay? And this gives you an outline of what we do.... When er I I John I hope will have told you on the phone that you have no responsibility for setting the assignments.
[Patrick:] No that's right yeah.
[Rod:] Okay? Er we have a marketing group that goes around the country doing that and when they er sign the surgery up to do the er for us to do the product or pri print the product they leave a sheet that looks something like this. Okay? And they are asked to provide us with a list of businesses which they are happy for us to approach. Now if they've got any sense of course they will put down businesses which they already have lots of dealings with
[Patrick:] Mm.
[Rod:] others in the area that they know might be interested in having the pre er prestige er prestige being in the booklet.
[Patrick:] Right okay.
[Rod:] Cos the doctors er still have that sort of element of kudos for for people to be associated with. A local community aspect.
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] Now that list is provided with you on the day first day of your assignment. When you arrive at your assignment there will be an envelope full of bits and pieces right? They include that list. Now that could be six to nine months old all right? Since we signed that surgery up.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] The most important thing you do with that is not to rush to the telephone and say, Yippee I'm gonna get deals out of this. It's to sit down with the practice manager and say right tell me about these businesses. What information can I glean from you about these businesses that will help me erm produce the goods. So it's very important to quali what we call re-qualify that list.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] But that's provided for you and it is erm it you know certainly the assignments I did on the medical practice they were it was very valuable. But you do have to still sit down and get that information.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Now in that envelope there will be lots of other bits of information. I'm not going to explain all that because I haven't got samples of it here. But it certainly would be explained on the training course.
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] This is an example of what's what is included. And this is er the sort of thing that er you'll hand over to the the medical practice to er at least remind them what you're doing there. And there are other bits and pieces like notices for for their board and their their surgery advising patients about the booklets.
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] Now by law they must provide something like this booklet.
[Patrick:] Okay so that's
[Rod:] That's fixed but some some of them started off with a a fo a double sided piece of paper which is thrown away with the rest of the garbage that people keep in their houses. But these are reference books that are not thrown away and that's what makes the advertisers the benefits to the advertisers that much more important. Okay. Let me just give you an idea, just that's something else we do, let me give you some idea of, that's a couple of examples very attractive books
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] and there are three... two or three sizes of ads that er I'm going to show you er go through with you in a minute. But first of all let me explain how we come to agree the number of booklets on the and the individual financial target per assignment.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] When er the sales exec for marketing goes round doing the contract bits and pieces er they he or she and the surgery the doctors' senior partners or all the doctors will agree on the number of booklets we're going to print. That is based s s very easily and solely on the number of patients they have listed. Now they may have fifteen thousand patients, well a lot of those are going to be living in the same house so we
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] a lot of groups of people so we we print them on the ratio of three to one. So that would be a five thousand booklet.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] That five thousand per annum figure is a guaranteed figure, we could in fact print seven thousand in the first year if they wanted.
[Patrick:] Right okay.
[Rod:] Right? New people coming in right?
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] But that's the that's the figure we agree we guarantee to print. That automatically internally within or within which is the company for medical practices, creates a financial figure that we would like to see achieved.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Now that doesn't mean to say that if you don't get to that figure you're blown out. It just means that we would like that because we know we've covered all our costs in the first year and the second year is nice profit.
[Patrick:] Right okay so
[Rod:] Because we all our production costs commissions everything comes out that first year's payment. Erm it's important to not these figures because that gives you some idea er usually the size of the practice will determine the number of doctors of course. You may have a dozen doctors er how many has it got in there for instance, oh it's just got four all right. And if you go to this booklet here erm and see how many they have there it sometimes determines the amount of business you're likely to generate. Oh that's got four as well. But you can have a dozen doctors.
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] That's when you get the big number advertising. It would take you longer but every doctor is worth may be a couple of ads all right in terms of who he knows or she knows.
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] Keep this figure in your mind Patrick because five at five thousand pound the bonuses start creeping in. They creep in early at four and a half thousand but the significant one is at five thousand.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] And it's only five hundred pound less. Because above that in addition to the thirty percent we pay on all advertising deals we then give a fifteen percent bonus.
[Patrick:] Right okay.
[Rod:] All right? Now there was a book done recently worth fourteen thousand pound's worth of advertising sales I'll let you work out what that sales consultant earned in three weeks.
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. []
[Rod:] And that you know you get edgy you get your
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] back of your hair [LAUGHTER] starts standing up []. All bonuses appro are paid at proof stage. I'll explain why in a minute. But all other commissions are paid the week after. So you don't hang around for money in our in our company. If you've done the business believe in paying you for it.
[Patrick:] Right okay.
[Rod:] So it's not like double glazing and home improvements
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] you can wait months sometimes. Now let's have a look at the the the costings of the ad the ads all right? We have three sizes only in the medical practice booklets. We have full page half page and a quarter.
[Patrick:] All right.
[Rod:] And we always home in on the cost of a full page. When we're talking to the people on the phone we home in on a thousand pound. Full page is a thousand pound. Because then we can go downwards.
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] If you start with a quarter page like any sale if you start with the cheapest they'll take it forget the rest.
[Patrick:] Yep.
[Rod:] But there are two other prices where you can sell up from a full page and that's that pre a premium slot like you see there and the chemist there will have paid twelve hundred pound.
[Patrick:] Okay mhm.
[Rod:] Okay? Per year for a minimum of two years.
[Patrick:] Right so er right
[Rod:] Okay? You've got to tell all this on the phone and remember how important that is. I can't emphasize enough. On the spot you can have ten percent discount if you need it. If you're a discounting person then you're not going to be very popular with the guy
[Patrick:] That's right.
[Rod:] who comes two years later when he has to do the same price again and it costs him money or her. Obviously all of this detail I explain to you here I'm just giving you a brief overview it'll be explained a lot more on the training course.
[Patrick:] Okay mhm.
[Rod:] Have a look at these examples because er that'll give you an idea how we calculate the money.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] If you took the lowest number of booklets which is two and a half thousand which is probably may be a two sometimes three three doctor practice
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] then you you you actually sold to the target that we have that's the amount of money you earn. And you could do that in two weeks. So that starts to look look fairly reasonable.
[Patrick:] Yes mhm.
[Rod:] If you're in a bigger practice that means you've got probably er more opportunity to to to get more business then that's the sort of money. Do that in two weeks I think we will be happy.
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER]
[Rod:] Do that in three weeks it's still not too bad. That's mister average eight hundred and fifty pound a week.
[Patrick:] Mhm mm.
[Rod:] Now I'm gonna point this out. I must point this out and this would be pointed out whichever company you go into. All assignments up to a hundred miles away from home you will be paid thirty percent. If we had to send you and it's a big if, we had to send you another hundred mil further sorry another hundred miles, above a hundred miles we will pay you another five percent. Now our top earners do er top earners for two reasons. First of all they're not satisfied with getting one deal a day, they'll they'll not sit back on their laurels and say oh I've done my work, they'll go out and get another two. The other thing is that they will ask for those assignments.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] They make up their mind whether they travel there and back each day or take or stay there.
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] It's the option that you have. But we do that five percent does make an awful lot of difference.
[Patrick:] Oh definitely.
[Rod:] It it certainly adds up over the over the week. You're going to take that away. Well let's just give you some idea, we're not talking er telephone figures here we're talking about the platform that we give people to earn that sort of money. All right?
[Patrick:] Right.... Yes can I just ask er
[Rod:] Yes sure just ask away.
[Patrick:] that five thousand that's regardless of whatever size of the
[Rod:] Yes.
[Patrick:] Yep er that's that's fine.
[Rod:] Or in fact that's regardless of what company you go into. They all all the bonuses with one one small exception, they all start at five thousand pound bonuses.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Here you have an opportunity to sell as much advertising you want in the period of time. On some of our products you have a restriction of how many slots. But you'll notice that the booklets are not dominated by advertising.
[Patrick:] No that's right I was just roughly trying to work out
[Rod:] Mainly because the doctors have to match up [LAUGHTER] each page with copy [] and that doesn't
[Patrick:] Right so
[Rod:] And they're not like that.
[Patrick:] Mhm. So you can't you can't really over sell on this then can you?
[Rod:] Well the doctors are, I'll explain one thing this er which is unique to this product. For every full page of advertising we achieve in the medical practice booklet the surgery receives a hundred pound from us.
[Patrick:] Oh right okay so
[Rod:] So one of the things about qualifying er the surgery when you walk into them and say well look you know about the hundred pound per full page
[Patrick:] Mhm
[Rod:] it'll benefit all of us if you give me as much assistance as you possibly can.
[Patrick:] Yep.
[Rod:] What you need to do is something like erm, may be, saying to the surgery well is there a pie a piece of equipment something you specially want that we might be able to achieve through their and if they say, Yes we want a photocopier, well how much is a photocopier, well four hundred is what the last price we got quoted, aim for four pages. And if they think that they they can help you out with that that extra half page to get four pages
[Patrick:] Mhm
[Rod:] they will.
[Patrick:] They'll do it yeah.
[Rod:] And then they start getting even more excited and go beyond that.
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER] Right. [] Yes.
[Rod:] In the main we we look for an average between sixteen to twenty pages
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] total of er of copy and advertising. Now we will pay your commissions providing you do a couple of this for us. Sell the space obviously but you do need paper. We've kept it as simple simple as we can. And I'm going to point out two or three things why it's absolutely essential that you tell everything over the phone. Because any one of these two or three things that I show you is enough if it's a surprise to them they will blow you out.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] First of all you want three things. That's a contract, and this is the same contract across all of our six companies. The only difference you know if you're colour blind it's tough. But you'll see [LAUGHTER] all right? Erm the contract is always between three parties ourselves the advertiser and the doctors' practice.
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] These are the things that they will cancel out on you know you've wasted your time if you don't tell them. We want I want to collect mister advertiser a thirty five percent of the first year's payment deposit cheque from you.
[Patrick:] Right okay.
[Rod:] The sec
[Patrick:] I was I was gonna ask about that so it's not actually money up front total er or
[Rod:] No it's a sales pitch. Because they say, Cor I can't afford that lot, you know
[Patrick:] Yes right.
[Rod:] We say yeah but we're we're doing it in three stages. We're taking a deposit cheque and if you notice that significant figure
[Patrick:] Mm.
[Rod:] that's why we can pay your commission the following week, we've picked up thirty five percent.
[Patrick:] Right okay.
[Rod:] Er we pay pick up the second the second stage which is the balance of the first year's payment at er about six to eight week's later through this banker's order. And that is another reason for for blowing you out. If they if you haven't told them that we want a banker's order signed all right?
[Patrick:] Yes right.
[Rod:] If you say I'd like to er can you get this banker's order, oh well wait a minute we need two signatures on that, or we don't deal with banker's order. Of course they do
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] but if you don't tell them that on the phone when you come it this is what I want
[Patrick:] Yes okay I yeah
[Rod:] and it could be and if if there's two signatures if there are two signatures require on the on the cheque we need two on the banker's order and you need both of those people there. If they're not and left that you'd never see it again. They'll loose it they'll loose it in their system. Then it's deadline time they say, Oh well forget it next time you're around. Two years later you've lost it. And that's why we tell them and there are some other things you tell them on the phone of course which you'll find out about on the training school.
[Patrick:] Mm. Okay.
[Rod:] Two things so far. That and the cheque. And we want to know about what you want a new ad. Now in the main nine times out of ten they will have advertised somewhere
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] and we're quite happy to accept that. However if they want to be juggled and redesigned we will do that at no extra cost. We will actually design and top-copy write their ad free of charge anyway.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] It's no extra cost. It's all built in and they breathe a sigh of relief. We don't want you to be a graphic arts expert or a copy expert we have plenty of those back at head office
[Patrick:] Okay yes.
[Rod:] Twenty year's worth of experience in bringing ads together give us and we've got thousands of examples
[Patrick:] Yes sure.
[Rod:] we can show them. Not all at once but
[Patrick:] No that's right I get it.
[Rod:] That's the document.
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] Once again colour coded to keep everybody happy.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] And the training course will show you what to do there and you take samples away and the training manual as well.
[Patrick:] Right okay.
[Rod:] Erm one thing that may hel will help is a compliment slip or a letter heading if we have to lift a logo it's difficult from a photocopy
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] so we will ask you to do that. If you do all that for us you can then get gather all those bits and pieces together and put them on your commission claim. Which of course is the most important document
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] of the week. And this is er this is my last but one before I came into recruiting.
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] Every consultant has his or her own number and so does the assignment
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] and that number is on the documentation you receive when you er when you arrive at the practice. We put the size down we put the advertiser the practice the town. What I've just described to you is a full and complete contract.
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] There are some organizations such as BUPA hospitals have a special arrangement where we don't need a cheque and we don't need a banker's order. However we do need a full er BUPA hospital order.
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] That's another thing you have to tell them remind them on the phone. Yes I want to go in, oh when I come round I need a contract signed I also need an order with this wording on it. And they'll say well can you fax the wording through, practices have got it or you just drop is round.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Value of contract commissions er rate and the amount of your commission. That's what we're looking for in terms of value every year every week, that's mister average okay? I mentioned bonuses paid at proof stage. Every two months a list of er er assignments that comes round er comes round to the sales execs for those that have been fully proofed. That is when you can claim your bonus if you're due any on that assignment.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Now a lot of people leave them the bonuses in there to accrue for tax or whatever, new car or holidays. It is safe as houses you don't forfeit it it's entirely you can claim it when your due but you can leave it there for us to
[Patrick:] Right that's good yeah.
[Rod:] protect. If it's in your bank you'll spend it.
[Patrick:] Inevitably.
[Rod:] That arrives on Monday
[Patrick:] Mhm.
[Rod:] and get all your commission paid in direct in to your bank that Friday. Right now is that of interest to you? Do you think you can do it?
[Patrick:] It sounds very feasible yes I know. As I say yes I can do it erm There was a couple of things
[Rod:] Now ask any questions
[Patrick:] Is it black and white one colour?
[Rod:] All.
[Patrick:] Yep okay cos
[Rod:] One except okay. The the only spot colour that is is what usually aligned in some way. Now we've got we've got a green there so we've er allowed them to do that.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] The only erm exception and that's not even in your price structure, is that if somebody says, Look is there any chance I can have colour, that's the only place they can have it on the back copy back cover sorry. And you have to get a letter of release from the doctor
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] because that's the doctors' .
[Patrick:] Yes.
[Rod:] And they may have already chosen to put something like that on the back.
[Patrick:] That's right okay.
[Rod:] Okay? So you have to get a release and it's somewhere around fifteen hundred pound for that back page. But people have ta Asda have taken
[Patrick:] Yeah?
[Rod:] Asda the er you know have taken.
[Patrick:] Right.
[Rod:] Otherwise it's all mono.
[Patrick:] No it's sounds straightforward.
[Rod:] All right. So we're talking about two weeks' time, that's two weeks Thursday.
[Patrick:] Okay.
[Rod:] You reckon?
[Patrick:] Yeah I think so.
[Rod:] You don't sound so sure.
[Patrick:] No I've got a number of possibilities I'm just check running through my mind which is the first one to go for. So
[Rod:] Okay so you've had some interviews, you've got some more interviews coming up?
[Patrick:] Erm well I'm suppose to hear some time this afternoon er when I get back now
[Rod:] Mm.
[Patrick:] whether I've got this other one or not. Erm but then weighing things up I've got to reflect on that one. Because first of all I don't money isn't every but that's er what we're in business for. Er they certainly weren't paying as much. Er
[Rod:] This is the other advertising?
[Patrick:] Yes that's right.
[Rod:] Well can you do that without a car?
[Patrick:] Well ultimately no. But yeah I need a car. Erm so there to that end
[Rod:] Whichever right. Er let me tell you in any self employed business you're gonna have to have a car.
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] So.
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] So better get it sooner or later.
[Patrick:] That's right. So I'd better hear what they say. Erm I I think they'll offer to me to to be totally frank.
[Rod:] Oh will you take it? I I'm not gonna go through all this er
[Patrick:] Sure. Erm that's something I've got er before I arrived here today in all honesty I probably would have said yes. Because I mean that would have been the first job offer.
[Rod:] Because we're not a second and seed company
[Patrick:] No that's right.
[Rod:] and erm coming you know we we will sort you out if you don't
[Patrick:] Oh yeah. Mhm. Erm the
[Rod:] If you want to leave it
[Patrick:] This discussion has actually sort of change my perspective on it erm and so it's it's not that there's an element of doubt in my mind I'm just I if I'm gonna go into something it's got to be a hundred percent.
[Rod:] Right okay. Well I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna give you all this bumph to take away. I I you
[Patrick:] You've seen the doubt in my mind.
[Rod:] You've got your doubts and you know I've had my doubts right from the
[Patrick:] Yes certainly.
[Rod:] beginning. And I think you you really have to go away and seriously think whether you can
[Patrick:] I don't want you to think [LAUGHTER] that
[Rod:] No no no.
[Patrick:] I've wasted your time
[Rod:] But I'm not gonna no no no it's all good practice. [LAUGHTER]
[Patrick:] No yeah but erm
[Rod:] Well I I think I I've had my doubts from the start and I you have you're iffy about it and I don't want anybody whose iffy generally doesn't make it with us.
[Patrick:] No that's right.
[Rod:] Because that means they're gonna be iffy on the phone gonna be iffy in everything they do and I as you know I have you know I'm gonna take a flier with you. So it would be
[Patrick:] Well that's that's another side of it as well. I mean you're going with me now if I don't make the grade at the interview
[Rod:] Mhm.
[Patrick:] you know that's against me as well so erm... so that that in itself has put a doubt in my mind if you know what I mean. Because you think that because you
[Rod:] Oh I mean I I after we after er we may never see look at each other again so my my job is to is to say right I can forward your name to and say look you know er I will make one or two points this guy er needs to be concentrated on, not as an exception, but you know because we've taken fliers with people before you've been very successful. But I have to say that they've been the major percent of them er we think if only they would knuckle down to it they would do it.
[Patrick:] Mhm. Yeah.
[Rod:] I if I were you I'd probably be er you know looking around a bit. May be well wait for the you know wait for the er
[Patrick:] Okay erm... right I mean this... It's a bit of a catch twenty two. I mean obviously I want to get a job to get start getting money erm to own my own car is gonna involve money.
[Rod:] Yeah what you the difference here
[Patrick:] But but
[Rod:] Pat Patrick is you need to earn money to get the car
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] in effect. Whereas that's the wrong way round for us.
[Patrick:] Mhm yeah. I mean I have access to cars but
[Rod:] Yeah but that that's not the same.
[Patrick:] That's not the same.
[Rod:] We've had people say access to the car and then we get a phone call to say they're off sick for a couple of weeks that actually means that the car has been not available.
[Patrick:] Yeah.
[Rod:] And won't have that.
[Patrick:] Mhm. Well that's understandable.
[Rod:] I think I think we'd better erm er er you know we both have doubts.
[Patrick:] [LAUGHTER] Okay well erm thanks for taking the time out
[Rod:] All right. Well okay.
[Patrick:] This has still been an experience erm there might be another time in the future.
[Rod:] You never know. Let me get let me get this out your way so that er
[Patrick:] Right. I'll give back then.
[Rod:] Okay yeah. Yeah. Do you want your application form back?
[Patrick:] Er well it's
[Rod:] Oh I'll take no I'll keep that. Er keep that as a as a future reference.
[Patrick:] Okay thanks.
[Rod:] All right?