[speaker001:] How long has he lived in Harlow?
[Mrs Druce:] Thirty two years. We came here... on the ninth of June... nineteen fifty.
[speaker001:] What did you... why did you move to Harlow?
[Mrs Druce:] Well my husband... had a job here... we moved from Highbury in in London... because his firm moved... from Highbury in London to... here... and erm... got so... we had to move with my husband because of his job, you see? And er... but my husband was down here... er... a good year before we moved down here... because... there wasn't accommodation available... for us to move with i... him you see? So erm... he travelled... backwards and forwards for... a year prior to us... coming to live here permanently.
[speaker001:] What did you think of it when you first moved here?
[Mrs Druce:] [LAUGHTER] Well []... it really was so different from... a built up place... but er... um, when, but the day that we came in... it was... mm, pouring with rain... everywhere was muddy... and er... of course,i i... there were only erm... one part of this town... this area, rather... that... had been occupied because all the other parts were all fields. There was just the erm... Broomfield Staffield... Tanys Dell... erm... Glebelands... and that was the... all the area that was built up when we came here. Our children... had to go to Chingford to school. My daughter was of er... grammar school... erm... tuition... but we couldn't put her into anywhere here because there were... no schools available... Loughton wouldn't take her... neither would... er, Bishop's Stortford because they were the only two grammar schools available here and erm... my dau, other daughter... with many other children er, well all the, children of the residency in Tanys Dell and the Glebelands... had to travel... to Chingford every day to school. Then the infant school... the first class of the infants... we had in a hut... on Netteswell Road... and then we went, they came from that hut there to the servant's quarters of Mark Hall. The o, the Mark Hall... only Mark Hall wasn't there because it had been previously burnt down. So... that was our first... se... good school, as you may say then... and then within about four years... they built Tanys Dell... and erm... we just... you know, we formed a... quite a a... a very good community here because we were all people from different areas... we all had the same problems trying to... re-adjust in a new place... and I think then, we had... more... relationship with, with our neighbours than people are having today. Because
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] yo you know if we had problems we'd each... talk to them and we had of course, we had, we formed a resident association and we took our problems to the resident's association... and... and we wo, you know, if we had problems which could be ironed out... the man, general manager of the development corporation, Mr... would come and listen to our complaints... and... we seemed, you know, we we got along very... very well really for... such a small place with nothing... because the only shopping facilities were in the old town... or we had to go to Epping... or Bishop's Stortford... you see?
[speaker001:] Mm. How did the people in the old town feel?
[Mrs Druce:] They resented us in the beginning... but I think as the years have gone by... and they have seen the facilities that... a new town has brought to their advantage... I think they're more acceptable now, but they did resent us in the beginning. Well I think everybody would, that had had their privacy... erupted like... they had been because they'd been a small community... for... well through the years you see... and for strangers to come in, I think it applies... in every place that you go to, new places, you know... that are built up... after it just being a little country village people do resent you... but I think now that they, they are... really... erm... accepting us for the fact that we have brought things that they would never have had... had the new town not been er... sta, you know started here.
[speaker001:] So have you always lived in this house?
[Mrs Druce:] Yes. I came down when my husband was working on the factory site then... as I say, prior to us coming to live here... this was... hadn't been even built... so we've seen it grow from... the floor... to what it is today, you know? I it really was... an adventure... it was really was an adventure.
[speaker001:] What business was your husband in then?
[Mrs Druce:] He was an engineer... and erm... he he was... he made co, he worked on conveyers and things... and then he changed his occupation... became a civil servant... and he worked at the Admiralty... down on... Templefields... until it... closed... about ten years, cos my husband has been retired about five years now. Er
[speaker001:] How do you feel about Harlow now?
[Mrs Druce:] I think it's a wonderful place! And I think... the council... are trying their utmost to... make facilities for all ages. I mean, when we came here, as I say, we had nothing, our children, if they wanted erm... any entertainment... we had to make our own entertainment, which we did. My son started a youth club... in one of the common rooms and... we as residents we got together... we really enjoyed ourselves in... our way, you know? But er... I think, [LAUGHTER]... people that have got so much now... feel they haven't got enough.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] They want more! But... they've got to realise that... Rome wasn't [LAUGHTER] built in a day []! And I mean, through the years which this town is about... thirty four years old? That's including Chippingfield... if you had seen it as we saw it when we came here... you would recognise how much work has gone... into... building the town... because I was on the... the council then... I was asked if I would stand for... the council... which was then... only a parish council... there was no... urban district council... that wasn't formed for... four or five years afterwards... and... of course, we had to fight for... lights... everything that, er that we needed we had to fight for... because there was... no... lighting on Netteswell Road... where our children were going to school, and there were little ones. We had to fight for... parks... swimming pools... everything that we wanted, we had to fight for! But people now are coming in... and they're expecting everything to... be here.... They don't realise that... it has taken many years to bring the town up to the standard it is now. And, very hard working people have had to do the fighting for what we have got!
[speaker001:] Did you have erm, any special job on the council?
[Mrs Druce:] Well... erm... I had different kinds of positions. I was er... Chairman of Public Health... and... various chim, I was Chairman of the Road Safety, which I was very interested in... I was very road safety conscious... and... we each were given a job... which we tried to do the best we could with... and then... we... well, whatever we were asked to do we began to make... a good town, you know? This is what we, we were aiming for... we were trying to make a town for the people. And for, our children... when they grow up... cos I had three children... nearly every one that had come into the town had little ones... so you see we were trying to build a town... for our children to benefit... which I don't know whether you think... that... it's a town worth living in... but I think that we have done... very well... and it's a town that is caring... for... such as the elderly... they really do care! Cos, lots of towns and... even... good towns that yo you would of thought that are better off than Harlow would have been... would have been... don't do half as much... for the... pensioners as Harlow does. I think they are very caring! If o, people would only appreciate the fact that... you can't have everything, you just can't have everything! I mean, schools... the only thing I was, I'd been governor of a... a school for thirty years... that was... used to depress me with the fact that we couldn't get... for our schools... the things that we needed... because to me and to all the people in Harlow who have children... are concerned... that we are... being stopped so much money on education which is the most vital thing... in our children's lives! Without education what kind of a country are we going to have? It's so important! So important!
[speaker001:] So do you use the Leah Manning?
[Mrs Druce:] Dame Leah Manning was my very best friend! She... came to me one day and asked me if I would stand for the council, which I did. I have her book here. She... ro... did an autobiography of a... education... and she was the most wonderful person... that you would ever wish to meet! She fought for... the working class... she fought for education... she fought for everything to benefit the community... she was a wonderful person! She really was!
[speaker001:] Do you think that erm... any of the town's been... badly designed for the old people?
[Mrs Druce:] Well I don't se... I don't think that it has been badly designed for the old people, I think the object of building the town as it has been built... is to... integrate the... erm... the old people... with the young, perhaps the young people... resent that... but I think we have got to have a... mixed community... in as much as we have got to... be aware that old people need... attention... in as much as they need... companionship... and if they are... not integrated with the community they are going to be... I really se, just left out on their own... which in lots of cases there are very, very many lonely people, old people... but if they are... put within the community... I think the community will look after them, in as much as giving them companionship... whether the people, some people resent it or not, I don't know, but I do think... that they should... not be segregated.
[speaker001:] When you were a councillor was there anything so, erm that you did definite to... help the old people?
[Mrs Druce:] Well, there weren't so many old people then... when we came here... [LAUGHTER]... we were classed as one of the oldest people because er... they were all very young people... and... you were talking about Dame Leah Manning... and she came to me one day and she said we're going to have a problem on the town because it's a very young town. She said, what do you think of us starting a family planning clinic? Because we had people coming into the town... that had come out of rooms... one and two rooms... in Har, in wherever they came from to Harlow... and... there were so many things that they required for their home... that they couldn't afford to have... big families... and... pay their way. So, we opened... a family planning clinic at Nuffield House... with all volunteer workers, nobody was paid! The doctors gave their services, the nurses gave their services, all the lay workers give their services... and from one clinic... we went to seven clinics in a week! And I was in charge of the clinics.
[speaker001:] Mm. Erm, how did you get involved with the Barnardos then?
[Mrs Druce:] Well... one day, I had a knock at the door... and... it was a Mr from Stepney Causeway that is the headquarters of... Barnardos. Erm, I mean... headquarters as from adminis, the administrative erm... part of it... I don't know whether you saw the... Barnardos This is Your Life lady
[speaker001:] Yeah, I know.
[Mrs Druce:] last night?
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] Well, Barkingside was a big home... they also have one out at Ware... they also had one at Upshire... but the Upshire one were for disabled children. So this gentleman came and he was i, said... would I be prepared to... run a fete... in aid of Doctor Barnardos Home? Well at that particular time I was already on the council, I was doing family planning... which took up an awful lot... of my time. So he said... it wouldn't involve much, but to run a fete does involve a lot of work.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] So we talked and... I said well we would think about it and we would let him know... so we collected all the friends that we thought would... like to help... which were many... people were very good to help! And... the following... visit he made here he brought with him Miss Virginia... she was one of the personnel at Stepney Causeway she was the Miss Virginia, the niece of the line... and she came... and she said that she would help... in erm... doing some organisation and and... giving us some insight as to what we had to do, because we had never run... a fete in all our lives! So... we got everyone together here... the bank manager, was Mr then, Barclays Bank... we got two or three of the industrialists... all of the members that were prepared to help... and... we started from there. We wrote to... oh I don't know how many stars... for articles that they wish to give... so that we could raise money by them. The... catholic school... which was the only... school available then to us... fo with the field that was... we which we needed. The Sister Constance, who was the then the principal sister there... she let us have the field... so we got... entertainment laid on... we invited a celebrity, I think our first celebrity was erm... I think it was Lord and Lady...... and... then each time we had a different one, we had entertainment the whole time we started, about half past two and then we had entertainment until six... then we had an interval... then we had entertainment till twelve o'clock... I even took my piano down onto the field so that we could have music. We raised quite... a good sum for the first time... and that went to the Barnardos home. Then the following one... we had... erm... Lord and Lady... they came as guests of ours. Then we did another one... and Tommy Cooper came! And... we've, each time we had someone... of importance to bring in the people. Now, Tommy Cooper he never charged us one penny! All we had to do... was to pay the expense of the helicopter that brought him in... because at that time he was appearing at the Prince of Wales and it was a matter of him... fitting his time in with his performances, you see? Which we did. We brought him here... ou, he changed his clothes from his... own suit into the pied piper... and erm... then we got him back to the Prince of Wales Theatre. Well the money that we raised from there... and also from another one was about three thousand... nearly four thousand... three thousand something... and we presented... er... Tommy Cooper with the cheque on the Prince, the stage of the Prince of Wales Theatre, but that cheque was to buy... a special ambulance... for the children of Upshire, which is the home of the disabled... and this special coach had erm... places where you could... wheel the children into the coach... in their chairs with the clamps and those children that could be taken out of their chairs and put on seats... put and had their belts put around them... and that was the only way that these children were able to get out! Then on our next project we... raised money for... the swimming pool that they required. Then, for the following one... we bought the first meals on wheels van... so that with all the money that we've collected for Harlow day we bought something out of the money. And we really had a wonderful time doing it! We took the children, when we had the bus... we took the children to Southend... that was the first time they had all been out together... and the owner of the Kersal... and the person responsible... on the council for... the erm... maintaining of of Southend, such as the Chairman, they put... the Kersal at our disposal! And before the children left... they were given a carrier bag with... all sorts of things that you could think of... and to see the delight on those little children's faces!... It was worth all the hard work... that we had put into it... because... it got that we used to use the town park towards the latter part of Barnardos day... and all the men that we had gathered together... used to have to erect... every piece of fence... to enclose... like it is now, the park, is enclosed now with with fencing... the men that were helping us did that all voluntarily! And mis the the constructors here... they loaned us different equipment and we worked from Monday to Friday getting the... things ready... we worked all day Saturday doing the show, and we worked all day Sunday clearing the field! It was very hard work but it was worth it.
[speaker001:] When did Barnardos day become the town show?
[Mrs Druce:] I can't remember... erm... they took... I just can't remember when they took over from us. But erm... I don't think that the town show... [LAUGHTER] perhaps I was []... I'm prejudiced to the fact that, that we'll be losing money rather than making it... but... it wasn't... anything like we put on for entertainment! Nothing at all! They put it on a bigger scale... but the entertainment... far below ours! I may be bragging [LAUGHTER] but []... it er... we had a wonderful day! We had the American band, we had the horse guards... from London... we brought them all up on the train, the horses and the guards and... we had wonderful times!
[speaker001:] What other entertainment was there in Harlow at the time?
[Mrs Druce:] Well... not very much unless you made it yourself, you know, if you were, the factories used to have their own erm... dances... and... the... Embers, it used to be the Embers then, that's the place in the Stow, they had danci, yes, they had dancing there... and they put on competitions for different things... and my son, with lots of others er, did erm... a rock and roll thing... which needed thirty six hours. And... we... made our own entertainment... that is the thing about it, you know? There wasn't much laid on for you because er... I think with new people you've gotta get them... into the spirit of doing something... otherwise you sit here, all sitting down doing nothing! This is... how we felt. And we had so many good people... in the beginning, as I say, that really... wanted to help... for to make... entertainment, you know?
[speaker001:] Erm... do you take part in any of the entertainments now?
[Mrs Druce:] Not now... no. I resigned from the family planning about... seven years ago when my husband retired, as I say... because he used to help me very much... and... when he retired... and my children had all... married... I felt it was time that I should retire too. I'd done twenty years... in the family planning... and I'd done twelve years... on the council... and I'd done thirty years... as school governor. So... now I'm sitting back doing nothing!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mrs Druce:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Oh is, looking back, do you think that Harlow's been a successful project?
[Mrs Druce:] I think so.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[Mrs Druce:] I think so. But, you see the thing about it is... we have got a... take towns... for what we make of them... you see... we could just all sit back, people say they're bored! There's nothing to do! But if you look around... there is so much to do! And there's so much voluntary work to be done... if people have got spare time... to go and help... but, I don't know whether it's the... sign of the times that people only want to... do jobs... for monetary gain. That maybe... the idea, but... there are so many things to be done... by voluntary workers... if people would only... say well I've got half an hour... an hour... it could be... so much... of an advantage to... whoever they're giving their services to... because we're having to cut costs on this and costs on that... an hour or two given voluntary... would... cover those jobs that we... can't get the money to pay for.
[speaker001:] Has your view of Harlow changed over the years?
[Mrs Druce:] My view of Harlow?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] It hasn't changed, no... because... we er haven't gone back... we are going forward all the time. I mean, we've had the facilities as we have now in the town centre... I mean, it has improved this town immensely! We're not only catering for Harlow people... we are catering for people... outside... which is bringing... money into Harlow... helping the finance of Harlow... and... I think we are just progressing... with the times. We're not going back. If we had more money to spend I'm sure there would be far more things that the councils would like to... do... but without money you can't do it! And things are... very expensive to do. When we say... and we've often said it, well we could do with this, we could do with that... like we used to say, we wanted the swimming pool... well... that cost an awful lot of money! To do the town park... that cost an awful lot of money! People think oh, you can do this, you can do that! We could do a lot of things... but without the finance you just can't do it!
[speaker001:] Don't think I've got any
[Mrs Druce:] Aha.
[speaker001:] more, can't think of any more questions. Is there anything you'd like to tell us?
[Mrs Druce:] Well... the only thing is that I hope that... the next generation that is coming along now... will appreciate... what has been done... for... their generation... because... it took a long time for us to... get what we wanted for our children... and now with our grandchildren are coming along... I hope the town will improve... with their growth. As the town has grown... with our children. And, if people would appreciate it... and keep it... as it should be... cos to me, I think... there's a lot of error in people neglecting their places. Which is detrimental to the town... and we are trying to keep this town... as... we think it ought to be kept.
[speaker001:] Do your children still live in Harlow?
[Mrs Druce:] Yes... not all of them. I have erm... one daughter living here... and a son living here... but my eldest daughter is in the United States... and... my granddaughter is just finishing her last year of law. So... what just i, well my... eldest daughter away... and she's been away this... month... twenty six years.
[speaker001:] That's a long time innit?
[Mrs Druce:] It is a long time.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] [LAUGHTER] Seems like a life time []!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]... Have you ever been over to see her?
[Mrs Druce:] Yes... we were... there last year because my granddaughter got married. We go quite frequent, my daughter's you know
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] wants us to go over as often as we can... and we try and... and often as we can. The only thing about it it's not... [LAUGHTER]... very inexpensive to go there
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mrs Druce:] it's not just like [LAUGHTER] going... going on a bus and []... but erm... my daughter's very generous and... seeing that we... we get to her... and we spend about three months... with her. Cos you can't go and say well I'm only going for a couple of weeks!
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] [LAUGHTER] Stay for the weekend []!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah []! We would like... we would like to go every week you know Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] but erm... she phones us and... you know... oh I had a... car, erm letter from her yesterday with er photographs and things like that.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] And she was saying how well my granddaughter was getting along in the University. She has... just this last year to go... and er... we hope for her sake everything goes well for her because she's... brilliant, and as you see I have to fly the flag for her because she's
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] she's so Americanized you see? But erm... we have to fly the flag!
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Mrs Druce:] [LAUGHTER]... But as I say... what do you feel as... as students... do you feel that you have... the facilities here that... could be improved on... or... or
[speaker001:] Well
[Mrs Druce:] are you satisfied with what... you have?
[speaker001:] I think that wha what we've got
[speaker003:] Well
[speaker001:] is very good!
[speaker003:] Yeah. I just can't believe that... that just things that are ha, going to be happening
[speaker001:] Yeah exactly!
[Mrs Druce:] Out of the sixth... from the sixth form that you're
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's right.
[Mrs Druce:] going to... Yes, we've tri
[speaker001:] The school have
[Mrs Druce:] we... been trying to fight that but
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] the ones above us are... stronger than we are, as I say, finance comes into it again you see?
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] And the thing about it is... such as erm... well not only Tanys Dell... that... biggest part of school is here... the population has decreased... so much in the last ten years... that we having now to close schools
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] where we were trying... desperately to have schools... because... we had no schools when we first came here as I say. But... now they are closing them... we've got so many good teachers out of work... where... ten years ago we were fighting to get good teachers... and smaller classes... but now... you see, we've got smaller classes
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] but... we haven't got the... children... to... engage the teachers, you see?
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] What do you think about the comprehensive schooling?
[speaker003:] Well
[speaker001:] I think it's good.
[speaker003:] yeah, I think it's good! We've never known anything different you see.
[Mrs Druce:] You haven't?
[speaker003:] No.
[Mrs Druce:] You haven't known anything different? Well as I say, my daughter was a grammar school tea, er pupil... but erm... my so, grandsons... I have one now at... he'll be twenty two this year, went to Burnt Mill... I have another grandson in Burnt Mill
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] I have a granddaughter now... going up to Burnt Mill... and I think... myself, they couldn't have done... any better... in the grammar school.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Well
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, my sister's school they have right from the start... and er... they don't... I don't think you get a wide enough circle of friends really.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Instead just
[speaker001:] Like, stick to your own type.
[speaker003:] And your social assets... just develop so much better at a comprehensive.
[Mrs Druce:] Too much segregation
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] at school? Yes, well this is, this is what the intention of the comprehensive school was in the beginning... was to... ha, let every child... have the same opportunity... which I'm sure they're getting... in the comprehensive school. People do say that... erm... there are far too many pupils... but if you've got the stuff... and the accommodation, which our school provide... they're not overcrowded. If the if they're provided with the right kind of teacher... then I think the pupil... will be... given that opportunity if it's, the potential is there... to... bring it out, but you some of the children don't want to learn... well that's not the fault of the school!
[speaker001:] No.
[Mrs Druce:] That's the... the child themselves... you see? I mean if you don't, think, oh well I'd... I don't want to be... well it's not the teachers fault cos you don't get on! But the thing about it is the school gets the bad name!
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[Mrs Druce:] You see? It isn't the child, they say oh oh oh! They're not doing this or that... but... in lots of cases, and I've known of lots of cases where children just don't want to know!
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] You see? So you go... are you... going now from your sixth form... into the college this time?
[speaker001:] No we'll have finished.
[speaker003:] No we'll have finished then.
[Mrs Druce:] You're finishing
[speaker003:] But
[Mrs Druce:] now?
[speaker003:] Yeah, well next
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker003:] year after we've done our A levels.
[Mrs Druce:] Af, you're ow, you're doing the le the levels now?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] That'll be it. And that'll be end of the school
[Mrs Druce:] And what what are you erm... qualifying in?
[speaker001:] Well
[Mrs Druce:] What levels are you taking... for what?
[speaker001:] I'm doing English, History and Chemistry.
[speaker003:] And I'm doing... Maths, Physics and History.
[Mrs Druce:] Very good!
[speaker003:] Oh well.
[Mrs Druce:] Well, I wish you... every success!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Thank you [].
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Thank you [].
[Mrs Druce:] And I wish you every success in your project too.
[speaker001:] Mm.
[Mrs Druce:] And I hope that I've been of some assistance.
[speaker003:] You have
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] yeah! So
[Mrs Druce:] I, I can't think the there's anything else you you'd... like to ask me?
[speaker001:] No, I don't think so.
[speaker003:] Can't remember.
[Mrs Druce:] That erm
[speaker001:] Turn the tape off.