[Neville:] Erm... okay first things first, can I just have your full name please?
[Sarah:] Sarah
[Neville:] Is that [spelling] []?
[Sarah:] [spelling] []
[Neville:] [spelling] [] erm and your date of birth please.
[Sarah:] [gives date of birth]
[Neville:] And your address? Yeah. And are you on the phone there?
[Sarah:] No.
[Neville:] Okay just so I can assess whether I can give you reduced cost advice under the legal aid system, are you working at all at the moment? Do you receive income support? Okay, [clears throat] what we'll do then is get you to sign... this form here, we call it a green form fairly obviously from its colour and that means that I can do up to erm about eighty six pounds worth of er a bit more depending on on what we have to do, and you don't have to pay us anything... towards that. I take it as you are on income support you've got no savings at all.
[Sarah:] no.
[Neville:] Okay could you sign that for me please down the bottom there.... Right what can we do for you?
[Sarah:] I was advised by a policeman custody advice.
[Neville:] Okay. Er can you give me the... name of the father of the child?
[Sarah:] Alan
[Neville:] Alan?
[Sarah:] [spelling] []
[Neville:] And his address?
[Sarah:] .
[Neville:] ?
[Sarah:] .
[Neville:] And the child's name?
[Sarah:] Ricky.
[Neville:] R I C K I?
[Sarah:] Y.
[Neville:] Okay. No middle name?
[Sarah:] Alan.
[Neville:] . And his date of birth? Er and does he suffer from any serious illness or disability?
[Sarah:] No.
[Neville:] ... Right er custody no longer exists, it's called something else. Erm what you apply for if if it goes to court is what's called a residence order, and what you would probably know as access
[Sarah:] Yeah.
[Neville:] is known as contact. Okay all the rules changed er... bout about a year ago now. S are you having problems at the moment with with the father?
[Sarah:] Well erm when I was living with him
[Neville:] Yeah.
[Sarah:] he assaulted me a f few times and the last time he did it I... involved the police and he was in court last Thursday and he was found guilty of assault. And that's the only time I've seen him since Boxing Day last year.
[Neville:] Convicted last Thursday?
[Sarah:] Yeah.
[Neville:] What happened to him, do you know?
[Sarah:] Erm... got fined a hundred and ninety six pounds and has got to pay me fifty pound compensation.
[Neville:] ... Apart from that you separated in December... ninety two.
[Sarah:] Mm
[Neville:] Erm did you say Boxing Day?
[Sarah:] Yeah. That's the last time he saw Ricky as well. He's never been in contact.
[Neville:] ... Erm are you expecting a problem from him?
[Sarah:] that's why I was advised to come and do this?
[Neville:] Right, what are you expecting to happen?
[Sarah:] Well he doesn't know where I live at the but it came up in court that he was going to... take me to court for access, making it out as though it was my fault that he hadn't seen Ricky, I was stopping him from seeing Ricky when... it's his own fault. I've been told by... numerous friends of his that he doesn't want anything to do with Ricky at all, that he's said [noise traffic].
[Neville:] ... Why do you think... that he said said to court he was gonna go for?
[Sarah:] I don't know it's just... I think he's trying to make me out as a bad mother
[Neville:] Did he ever use any violence on the child... towards the child?
[Sarah:] Well he's hit me while I've had my kid in my arms and... quite a few times. He's never actually gone... to harm Ricky.
[Neville:] ... [sniff] Does he work?
[Sarah:] No. [clears throat]
[Neville:] [cough] Have the Child Support Agency had an interview with you yet? [turning through paper]... because from April this year... er they are... pursuing all absent fathers for maintenance.
[Sarah:] Yeah.
[Neville:] Even if he is not working they will want er I think it's two pounds twenty a week out of him.
[Sarah:] [noise traffic] last I knew it was five pence a year.
[Neville:] Yes it's it's all changed. But the Child Support Agency deal with that and courts don't deal with maintenance these days.
[Sarah:] Mm.... He he has said if I do... go for maintenance he'll deny that Ricky's his.
[Neville:] There's nobody else it can be is there?
[Sarah:] .
[Neville:] Okay this is erm... an application for full legal aid... so that we can deal with an application for residence. Can you just sign that for me... down the bottom there? I have to say I'm a little doubtful as to whether legal aid will be granted because [clears throat] the courts now take... the view that if there's no contest between you and him as to who's going to look after the child, then they won't... make a court order. They will only make a court order if there are major problems. Erm... for instance if he's asking for the child to go to live with him... and you oppose that then... then court would make a decision as to where the child s should live. Er in terms of contact they will also make a decision giving days and times of contact if it can't be worked out between the two of you.
[Sarah:] Mm. [clears throat]
[Neville:] Er but otherwise it won't interfere. It'll leave it to you... er both to make any arrangements on contact. I take it from what you say that you don't want him to see the child? Well?
[Sarah:] No not really because he's he's a heavy drinker
[Neville:] Aha.
[Sarah:] and when he's been drinking he's very violent. And I definitely don't want him to have him at weekends because that's when he's at his worst. He plays football... as well. He's got a daughter from a previous relationship and he used to have her at weekends and he used to leave her all the time... so he could go and play football and go out drinking.
[Neville:] ... the name of that child?
[Sarah:] Rachel.
[Neville:] Rachel what? Okay. [sniff] There's two things we can do. We can either... that's the wrong way to phrase it. We can either do nothing... erm and just wait and see whether he... com comes back to you and says I want access contact to er to Ricky, erm in which case we can then do something about it. Erm or we can make application for legal aid to go to court for... a residence and contact order now. The disadvantage of doing that to my mind is it simply prompts him into doing something.
[Sarah:] Mm.
[Neville:] It may be that what he's said in court is... purely something to get back at you and he doesn't really mean it.
[Sarah:] Well I was advised to do this because m my Dad's a policeman
[Neville:] Yeah.
[Sarah:] and he thinks because I've... he's pleaded had to plead guilty in court
[Neville:] Yeah.
[Sarah:] That's he's gonna come back at me cos like I've got one over him
[Neville:] Right.
[Sarah:] and he thinks he's gonna come back at me somehow.
[Neville:] [sniff] I think on balance I mi I... my advice... is that we do nothing, just wait and see if whether he contacts you at all.
[Sarah:] Mm.
[Neville:] Erm... firstly because as I say it may prompt him into doing something if we write to him saying you're making an application to court yourself. Erm he may... then decide well I'm gonna do something about it. Erm and secondly because a court won't interfere if th if er... there's no need to.
[Sarah:] Mm.
[Neville:] No need to protect the child. You have all the rights as a mother. You have what's called parental responsibility. Erm he has nothing at all because he's... never been married to you. So... the only way in which he can have any rights at all to Ricky apart from you agreeing, is to go to court himself, erm and I'm inclined just to say lets see what he does. If he does make an application to court then at that stage we can er... we can oppose... his application.
[Sarah:] Mm.
[Neville:] Erm... it may be that what he said in court was purely bluff. Er I what I don't want to do is to prompt him into...
[Sarah:] Yeah.
[Neville:] taking some action himself. Now if he does come round and creates a nuisance
[Sarah:] He doesn't know where I live.
[Neville:] Well
[Sarah:] The only way he can contact me is through my grandma or my Mum.
[Neville:] Mm well if he finds out where you are, or even if he visits relatives and starts making threats saying he's gonna get you or he's er... assault you, or he's gonna hurt the child, anything like that, then er... the first thing obviously is to contact the police to warn him off and secondly contact me, cos we'll then be able to apply for an injunction to stop him coming anywhere near you.
[Sarah:] Mm.
[Neville:] that stage hasn't been reached you see because [phone rings] you've not seen him since Boxing Day.
[Sarah:] Apart from last year
[Neville:] [tel]... Right... so I think really I've said about... everything I need to say. er you follow the... follow my argument.
[Sarah:] Yeah.
[Neville:] Erm... I think we'll just wait and see what he does. If he starts creating harassment for you let us know and we'll stop him.
[Sarah:] Okay then.
[Neville:] Okay.
[Sarah:] Right thanks.
[speaker003:] Thank you very much.
[Sarah:] Bye.
[speaker003:] Bye.
[Neville:] Bye. [recording ends]