[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] How long've we got? Don't know what the reaction is
[Kathy:] and they put theirs and whatever but if you do send something on a letter think
[speaker002:] erm no now this being about it being a permanent record could be positive or negative
[Kathy:] [LAUGHTER] yeah
[speaker002:] yeah, before you commit things to paper do be very very careful make sure that it's not just because you're in a bad mood or something like that they can always come back and. It lacks the personal touch... it lacks the personal touch which is why you never send your people letters saying you're fired or you know lost a job you always talk to them and it can be more expensive in terms of materials you use it's it is very very expensive on mat materials and cheap on time but it's a personal relationships that's the first thing okay that'll do so when do we use it? When do we use it?...
[Lee:] It is actually it is when we're in the office
[Kathy:] oh
[Lee:] is it a job application?
[Kathy:] yeah
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Very important message that's what you're trying to say
[Lee:] like before the break when you want to have a permanent record of what you'd done so that you can't turn round and say well I don't remember them conversation
[speaker002:] letters when erm copying of letters which do need a copy of what's been what's what permanent evidence What else?
[Lee:] When you reply to somebody or send an acceptance or
[speaker002:] When you reply to someone
[Lee:] yeah er okay erm, I'd cut out R S V P
[speaker002:] okay, okay erm yeah although normally you could do something like that while you can do that by phone you can call up and say yes we're coming definitely just to get in touch and say it.... Looking for two points not many can do at meetings as long as you pass it up there's two points, two important points that we haven't talked about so far and there in the reasons why we do it they're in there somewhere....
[Lee:] When you want to contact a lot of people
[speaker002:] When st when staff can't all receive that information at the same time but they y'know they can read but they need the information but that can't all receive it simultaneously they as many staff many staff, one more... and the last one is one you like computer stuff like that where you've got a lot of detailed information you know that you want detailed information
[speaker001:] [cough]
[Kathy:] such as this year's figures you know they're not paying you to somebody over the phone and expect to remember of course they can't so I've got the detail that I need to keep looking at, and there about that's about it. They're the times when when actually look at which ones we'd use remember the strengths in these some of the biggest yes you can go into greater detail you can see the reaction face to face you'll get feedback straight away verbal as well as non-verbal er you know immediately what the answer is if there's if you're waiting for some sort of reply to it, you'll have more effect because it's face to face erm, cheap on material but it's expensive on time you don't have a formal written record and it can be very time consuming. The best times to use the personal the actual personal touch in talking to each other personal communication is when you give reward or praise matters of importance and urgency matters of complexity unpleasant matters personal matters or things like verbal warnings. Okay. Doing things communicating with people verbally can mean a lot more now sometimes with a lot of bureaucracy you can get sucked in to putting everything down on paper but it doesn't mean as much as it does when it's face to face communication. The strengths of using written communication is that it's on paper there's a record, of course that can be a weakness sometimes, be careful what you put down, it means more you get hold of more than one person you've said it to more than one person who can be quite difficult to get hold of. Okay. it can be read whenever it doesn't have to be read as soon as it's rel received. You can make sure you can take time to make sure you get it right you get the information right gives you chance to formulate new ideas and put things in a different way until they have to be too many drafts. It can really be helpful if it's complicated and detailed information, notice the difference between complicated and complex. Complicated when it has to be written down to or detailed where there's a lot of information to be taken in and it's a lot easier if it's done that way because people can refer back to it all the time. The weaknesses are lack of security the time difference that it can bring if there's lots of replies going backwards and forwards erm it might get mislaid, it might never get read, you don't know you can't be sure that people are actually reading the memo er you don't know what the reaction of the people is you can't go back on what you've said because it's on paper er and it lacks that personal touch can be expensive on time, times to you but sorry erm but can be expensive not on time but on materials. Important matters. Okay can be used for important matters where you need a copy or a record of what's been done. It's useful when you've got to contact lots of staff or get information to many people at the same time and allows you to put detailed information down. [cough]... Well that's what I think what do you think?... Any comments? Yes that's right no that's a load of rubbish
[speaker001:] That's a good synopsis
[speaker002:] That's what? huh. It wouldn't look very good if I gave you a great big rambling piece of paper now to tell you about communications
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] All I wanted you to do is put the highlights down it's all we need we need to know what the important things are, okay, just a quick breakdown of things we talked about. How many of you people do use a lot of written communications? How many, never
[speaker001:] not if I can avoid it
[speaker002:] I mean is that because that because you've made that one of the things you want to do, you want to avoid if possible or
[speaker001:] Well the only people that I actually need to write to are managers or agents and I mean I give them a print out of what I do every day
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] but I mean there's no reason for me to send them memos
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] then know what I do the result is what I do I'm not doing my job they know
[speaker002:] right, okay, okay,
[Marcus:] very rarely
[Greg:] not a lot cos you know in the department I've got it's ah we're in touch with all of the suppliers and all the sub- contractors
[speaker002:] right
[Greg:] erm, and with agencies like Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise so a lot of the stuff we get in is written and we have to reply
[speaker002:] okay
[Greg:] a lot of it's verbal
[speaker002:] right
[Greg:] but but it's erm an amount of written work that needs to be done...
[Ian:] with ours it's a lot more telephone communication
[speaker002:] okay
[Lisa:] telephone so
[Neil:] I'd say mainly verbal just confirmation of orders
[speaker002:] okay, again I mean these are things that talk about confirmation I mean quite honestly I'm I'd be quite happy if we had offices where people talk to each other ninety per cent of the time rather than send memos and faxes to each other, and on the whole we are really talking about inside the office with the people who we work with I mean obviously clients as well trying to find something different, we tend tend to find that it's very very easy sometimes to make a phone call it's much easier to make a phone call and to talk to that person and give them the personal touch. Really the only reason I could think of when it's you know it is important to put things on paper are really like the last three bits that we talked the last three things we talked about which detailed information would need to be there so people can read it when you know it's got to get to a lot people not all in the same place at the same time or when it's you need a copy. They're the only times really and as with the I B M the I B M people's the company I B M said if it's more than a page is it really worth sending it out. Okay. Gonna ask you to do an exercise now er it'll it'll take us to four o'clock before we start talking about assertiveness what I'm gonna ask you to do is in one, two three, one two in two twos and a three I want you to put on paper one side one sheet of paper to sum up all the things we've done about communication so far today and it's going to other people on this course, and it's going to be marked by one of them on this course. On the criteria we've been talking about today, so find yourself a partner that you haven't worked with today somebody erm if you go in the same group that Kathy's in because then if it comes up to four o'clock Kathy wants to go then you can be the other partner you've got half an hour to put on one sheet of paper clearly and concisely what we've done on communications.... Okay, erm well if you go you go with erm Neil and Kathy then they can give you something different, alright. You've got I'll give you twenty minutes and it's gotta be ready to be handed over to the other group in twenty minutes time.
[Lisa:] Has just one of us gotta write it or
[speaker002:] Well we don't want no all we want is one so that at the end we want from each group to go to another group to be marked. that's stumped you hasn't it?
[speaker001:] that's one way of putting it
[Lisa:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Can we have some
[speaker002:] erm
[speaker001:] date
[speaker002:] Okay let me just I'm sorry
[speaker001:] ah yes
[Lisa:] Have we just gotta list it have we?
[speaker001:] er
[speaker002:] Have we just gotta list? What've I just been talking about, what did she say?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] You've gotta to do it so it's clear, concise and puts across the information that you feel is important to get across
[Lisa:] right
[speaker002:] Sorry you want some paper does anybody else want some paper And you can speak loud because then it'll get recorded okay and then we can actually
[speaker001:] expressing yourselves, express yourself erm oh yeah, oh yeah yeah Paper Gordon? [LAUGHTER] He's going for it [LAUGHTER] that's right [cough] erm Oh yeah [LAUGHTER] [cough] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] yeah but you know... ... [cough] yeah [cough] ... the set of circumstances described yeah [LAUGHTER]... said it was the minute or so [LAUGHTER]... [cough]... [LAUGHTER] Can we elaborate on that... ... [cough] [cough] [cough] [cough]
[speaker002:] erm, the time the time I've given you you seem to be quite busy another five minutes or less? Five minutes, five minutes, that enough? Okay five minutes.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] Well it was there so I thought I'd bring it
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] I know you can't have it
[speaker001:] huh [LAUGHTER] [cough] [LAUGHTER] [cough] on to the ring road there first roundabout I come to yeah, well that's no problem and then from there even I can't get lost famous last words yeah reactions... that'll be an area [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]... [cough] [LAUGHTER] should have been here this morning I was coming so but um Yes I am but I don't being as far away as I am yeah I mean I yeah [LAUGHTER] West Ham Oh dear [cough]
[speaker002:] Okay, everybody seems as though they've finished right can you put your as I say team one team two team three please, one, two, three...
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] [cough]
[speaker002:] Okay that's group three...
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] ... you see just to prove I'm listening
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] that's for group one one okay, okay I'm not telling you who's doing whose right please mark it, marks out of ten and I want you to be able to justify your marks. Marks out of ten... [cough]
[speaker001:] [cough] [cough] [cough] [cough]
[speaker002:] Okay, just about it now... Okay, gonna ask each group what marks they've given and why, now it's not for the other team to justify it because it's all a subjective thing but the thing is we're hopefully marking them against the same criteria as everybody else because we've all been in the same place and listened to the same things and read the same things, however, now we know obviously it doesn't necessarily mean that everybody's taken in the same things. So let's just see how people have marked and what people see as the criteria. Let's start with your group Mark cos
[speaker001:] yeah
[Marcus:] right well we have given team two six
[speaker002:] six, fine
[Marcus:] As we feel that they missed a fair bit out what they've written is very good but erm they've missed quite a bit out
[speaker002:] So is it not detailed enough for you or or?
[Marcus:] It is detailed alright but as I said what they've written is detailed enough but they've missed out erm various things that we needed to know
[speaker002:] such as?
[Marcus:] Such as er what we were trying to listen sorry what we were trying to talk erm with the person listening didn't listen er what we were trying to talk about
[speaker002:] right, okay that warranted more marks for that one but for missing that out
[Marcus:] but kept on repeating themselves
[speaker002:] okay, so is repeated, something being repeated and also something being missed out okay. Any comments on that? Group two
[speaker001:] Not really no
[speaker002:] Do you think it's fair comment?
[speaker001:] yeah erm, I think we felt slightly pressurised in the timescale
[speaker002:] Okay
[speaker001:] erm but er trying to get down as many points as we could, in a way that you can express yourself but to show that you were
[speaker002:] [cough] What was your priorities when you were doing that, what were your priorities as far as, was it to get it all down or was it just to get in down in a particular way what what do you see as the priorities when you were talking about doing it?
[Marcus:] Well to try and show that we'd covered we'd taken in as much of what was going on
[speaker002:] [cough] Okay
[Marcus:] erm... and trying to show that we'd understood it
[speaker002:] Right, alright we say we do
[speaker001:] ah group three well they got two it depends on what their criteria is if it's erm... just listening a diary of events of what's gone on
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] then they got ten, if it's showing an understanding of what was in that diary then we're give them four [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Good, why only four?
[speaker001:] erm, there's on certain parts of ah what they put has shown they they've understood what was in that part of the diary like in the exercises relating this morning to or to learning like with the Roman numerals and the other thing they shown that they understood what was in that context, but then on erm when you get later on it's just er
[Kathy:] they've started off with it erm the report described what they've learnt but they haven't actually put what they've learnt
[speaker002:] right, okay
[speaker001:] yeah it's
[Kathy:] what they've done to learn it
[speaker002:] right, okay
[speaker001:] You know on certain passages it's like we've completed a questionnaire and then discussed it
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] they're not sure what they the discussion was really about
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] whereas other parts they have gone into more detail which is ones they've gone into more details with
[speaker002:] So what they've done is they've picked a way of doing but they kept chopping and changing the way they've been doing that all the time. Any comments group three?
[Kathy:] Yeah, at the beginning was when sort of got twenty minutes left to do it erm we were fine there and I think it was the beginning part was and then we started panicking then like sort of after that you said oh do you want five minutes or more and we all sort of looked at each other you know and we didn't feel that we had enough time erm so we just sort of really
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] okay
[Kathy:] and yeah we did forget the first paragraph of the of what we had learned so we just covered what we'd done really
[speaker002:] Could this be time pressure then?
[speaker001:] We also er actually what was meant to be on the course yeah we weren't quite sure if that was what you wanted Yeah Yeah you know
[speaker002:] Before you mark it I did mark it
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Don't know what you were asking us to do we were a bit unsure of
[speaker002:] In what way?
[speaker001:] Well, we really know whether you wanted us to put what we learned from the report what we'd actually done that day as in just listing it as you said like a diary or
[speaker002:] Why didn't you ask?
[speaker001:] We were a bit
[speaker002:] Why didn't you ask?
[speaker001:] That's why we were chopping and changing because some of you'd say one thing somebody that couple of times
[speaker002:] Well you could have asked you know. Questions like that you can ask then. You know here we come down to very basic premise of communication
[Kathy:] yeah
[speaker002:] remember what we said the first thing to date you have to understand what you're trying to do
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] it's the same with written communication as well, being clear and if you're not clear then make it clear. Now really it's the same thing, don't be afraid you can't be afraid to ask because if you're not clear in your own mind how the hell is the person who's trying to communicate with you going to be clear. So that's why Well well done at least it was a a time question of course time pressure is supposed to be there it's not supposed to be nice and comfortable
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] A because we haven't got that much time and B because the little bit more pressure you're under the more likely likely to leave certain things out so maybe you've got the point. But you know you agree with the comments that came in there
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] righto well done, well done both groups okay and then I need your your comments on this group over
[speaker001:] Yeah we gave them Group two seven.
[speaker002:] Seven
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] Good, okay
[speaker001:] erm, they've covered all the areas discussed but they didn't sort of pinpoint the areas of the Ah like again something like this what we actually
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] that's what we're really sure about that's why. erm like you we read the first passage and it was kind of what's what's all this about if you wasn't in the room and you didn't know what was being you haven't got a clue what was going on because it doesn't tell you, but the rest of the sections that put down they do give a sort of brief analysis
[speaker002:] so worth seven you reckon
[speaker001:] Well we was being a bit generous [LAUGHTER] like if you take them down to six
[speaker002:] What were you trying to do? What were trying to me what were you trying to do?
[Lee:] Cover everything in the
[speaker002:] Cover everything, that was your main priority was it?
[speaker001:] yep
[speaker002:] Okay, and they did that do you think?
[Kathy:] They covered everything they to do that but they just if I'd have just read that without knowing what had happened you know I
[speaker002:] Well the middle group said said that your one was
[speaker001:] yeah [cough]
[speaker002:] How does it compare to your one then, how do you feel it compares to your one?
[speaker001:] Well we went, we went into a bit more detail Bit more detail, yeah more at the beginning
[speaker002:] Measured by the middle group's criteria they would've had three then would they?
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Eh?
[Kathy:] We're not that cruel
[speaker002:] No, no no no we're just looking at what criteria we're measuring
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] And you know this brings another important aspect up which is very important about communications, erm you know we've jollied along talking about what communication is making sure people know you know what you want etcetera etcetera etcetera but also don't forget that different people can have different perceptions of the same same things but as I say here we are we sat here we done we've done about an hour an hour and a half on written communications and yet you know when we passed the papers around it hasn't been too bad but there has been different things that people have gone for both in the writing of these reports and both in the marking of them as well. So you know what this is a measure of it's not a measure of anything it doesn't mean that one group's done better than the others it just means that's the way it's been measured the work that they've done has been measured by another group which isn't good or bad it's just hopefully picking out the important criteria and applying them to the work that we've done and the notes we've produced and the way we've marked other people's. Now having said that different people might make take put the emphasis on different things. Bear that in mind and also an important part of communications that's why there's always so many problems about which is right. Everybody sees a different picture and of course most people see don't see it anyway because by the time they look and see what's happened it's already happened. Right well done yeah fine no problems
[Lisa:] Have I
[speaker002:] No leave it in you don't want any homework tonight
[speaker001:] Right
[speaker002:] exhausted now anyway
[speaker001:] Sorry
[speaker002:] if they don't turn up till eleven o'clock tomorrow
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] yeah yeah
[speaker002:] Okay, alright, I want to move on now quarter past four now, I want to talk about assertiveness. Assertiveness always seems to be one of these subjects that really, I don't why but it seems to get to get people talking about about being aggressive about dismissive about lots of different things and I think assertion perhaps is one thing that we need we need to clarify
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] before we do anything else. Let me ask you a question. I'll give you a minute each, write down what you think being assertive means. What does assertive being assertive mean?... [cough]... How'ya done ya finished? All done? What do we mean what is assertive mean to you? this is gonna be quite interesting I suspect. Anybody want to start the ball rolling
[Marcus:] erm, it's how confident you are in yourself and the way that you actually put your point across.
[speaker001:] on the same lines as getting your point across and not being afraid to do it your point across and not being afraid of doing it [cough]
[speaker002:] Okay,...
[speaker001:] being afraid what sort of things scared ah what people might think or saying
[speaker002:] Good good...
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I've got trousers on
[speaker002:] right
[Lisa:] getting your point across effectively yeah
[speaker002:] getting your point across effectively
[speaker001:] yeah... apart from being positive in putting your point across and erm being clear in things that you say things that you do being strong about it...
[speaker002:] clear and strong, when you say strong what do you mean?
[speaker001:] ... [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Or is it you know how can you be strong
[speaker001:] Making yourself understood clearly basically, knowing what you're talking about
[speaker002:] Knowing what you... knowing what you're talking about being clear okay yep
[speaker001:] More or less on the same lines having a point of view and putting it across without wavering, don't erm
[speaker002:] Cover your point
[speaker001:] Yes, getting your poi yeah
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] yeah, okay
[speaker002:] Having a point of view and putting it across to other people I think we've
[speaker001:] and words are put clear and strong and I think I'd use the word forceful
[speaker002:] forceful, okay... but the other bit you're happy with
[speaker001:] Oh yeah
[speaker002:] great
[speaker001:] what ya say [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] great
[speaker001:] are you scared? erm, the one thing that I thought was under person who is who is talking he's gotta be I think he's gotta be firm so that the person understands that erm that what is required but he's also gotta be fair at the same time hasn't he?
[speaker002:] than fair... okay, good good... What's a person like when they're being assertive?
[speaker001:] ...
[speaker002:] Anybody else? Right think of a time when you were assertive
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] When was a time when you were assertive, just think you can be anything assertive over anything it doesn't matter think of a time when you feel you were being assertive anybody think of a time when they were being assertive...
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[Lisa:] hoovering, cleaning the windows [LAUGHTER] a bit like all men
[speaker002:] Oh now here we go
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] right, you be careful you're letting yourself in here
[speaker001:] is gone
[speaker002:] She's
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] that's being assertive
[Lisa:] I can be a man
[speaker002:] okay just think of a time when you were assertive and you all everybody think of a time when you were assertive, can you think of a time, anybody can't think of a time when they were assertive? You not gonna tell me even if they can, now you know you're being non-assertive.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Think of a time when you've been assertive it can assertive in the very very slightest form it doesn't matter, assertive of some sort. Got a time
[speaker001:] yeah [LAUGHTER] yes
[speaker002:] great
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I know I have been but I can't think of one at the moment
[speaker002:] make it up, make one up what would it be like if you were being assertive? Alright we've got that time you were being assertive, think of a time when you weren't assertive. Think of a time when you weren't assertive, just think of a time when you weren't assertive... can you think of one
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] If you can't think of one make it up What's the difference, what's the difference
[speaker001:] well erm I wasn't being assertive I was a bit walked over
[speaker002:] you let yourself get walked over, okay. What made it what it feel as though you'd been walked over?
[speaker001:] well erm, it's just a sense of ya know I couldn't care less it's yeah go on an do that I don't give a stuff
[speaker002:] Did it bother you?
[speaker001:] Not at the time no it didn't it bothered me when it was done because I thought you've probably done something and the outcome would be that so at the time it didn't bother me because I wasn't interested in the situation
[speaker002:] So is that being as you weren't being assertive at the time
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] Not bothered
[speaker001:] yeah, I think what it does I mean because I had the change to alter the situation
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] uh uh I wouldn't take the chance
[speaker002:] So what's the difference between the two situations in you?
[speaker001:] In me? I dunno I felt like I let myself down
[speaker002:] You feel like you let yourself down, okay
[Marcus:] I'd agree with that
[speaker002:] You feel like you let yourself down, what how would you say you let yourself down, I don't mean to be specific but in what way did you let yourself down
[Marcus:] erm, I I let the person do what they wanted to do and not what I wanted to do I just went along with what they said
[speaker002:] okay, okay you feel you let yourself down because of that
[Marcus:] yeah it could've be done better
[speaker002:] okay, right
[speaker001:] at the the time I think when I wasn't being assertive and when I wasn't the difference was the person was younger than me and I was being assertive and then when I perhaps wasn't and like said you feel after that you've let yourself down. The person was older than me and he's a bit higher up the rank than me and it's all about it probably comes with experience he's to stand for yourself really but it's when you're our age and a bit younger you don't want to be seen to be rocking the boat if there's something that's going on that you don't agree with but you're asked to do something that you don't want to do valid reasons you haven't got the time or it's not really up to you to do it
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] those are the two
[speaker002:] you'd have liked to have turned round and say look I don't wanna do it
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] it's difficult when you're a customer
[speaker001:] yeah, yeah that's right [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] alright
[Lisa:] erm with me I don't feel comfortable being assertive
[speaker002:] What's the difference then
[Lisa:] like
[speaker002:] what's the difference what stops you being what stops you
[Lisa:] It's not knowing who I can be assertive with
[speaker001:] done it I don't think it comes naturally either I mean you have to work at it don't you?
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] ya know some people can
[Lisa:] not coming naturally not being there you just sort of
[speaker001:] No I find the other way I I find that I am assertive whereas at times I shouldn't be in fact most of the time I shouldn't be and I am and I'm the opposite
[speaker002:] okay you find it hard you find it hard to do to make a special effort what is it you have to make a special effort to do?
[Lisa:] to get aggressive
[speaker002:] to get aggressive
[Lisa:] yeah erm because it's not in my nature to be aggressive
[speaker002:] alright
[Ian:] erm I find that when I'm not being as assertive er I'm not very good in a one to one situation thinking your answers back straight away. I can go away from a conversation and half an hour later I think I should have said that
[speaker002:] right
[Ian:] erm where I am assertive it's where I'm working to a rule book I know those rules backwards and I want somebody to follow those to the letter
[speaker002:] right
[Ian:] then I can say that goes in that holder you do that that that and I don't want any variation just do it
[speaker002:] so you're very clear about what it is that you want
[Ian:] yeah
[speaker002:] when you're clear about what it is that you want you can be assertive
[Ian:] yeah, I can be assertive
[speaker002:] when you're not too clear about it you find it difficult being assertive
[Ian:] that's it yeah
[speaker002:] okay, what's the difference between being assertive and not being assertive what's the big difference between the two?
[Ian:] A matter of confidence
[speaker002:] A matter of confidence okay
[Greg:] No I was just about to say confidence really I find it quite difficult to get assertive erm but when the situation does arise I suddenly get a gut feeling about it later
[speaker002:] okay
[Greg:] whereas you look back at the end of the day and if you haven't done what you did you sort of feel like a bit down ah and you wish you had
[speaker002:] Being true to yourself
[Greg:] yeah go on
[speaker002:] I mean is this being true to yourself and letting yourself down and you know not saying what you feel you should've said erm perhaps now I wanna talk about one area in particular and that is this thing about you know submissiveness it seems that most people look at things that disturb you either as submissive or aggressive. A lot of people tend to look at assertion as being aggressive there's a total difference. Being aggressive is just as bad as being submissive it really is because people swing to one side you know it some people are very good at being aggressive and are very good at diving in and getting their own way and just ju by being aggressive it's naturally aggressive.
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] Now the only problem with that is I sometimes look that these people I wonder are they really happy being aggressive all the time does that really make them feel happy? I don't think so, really it's just the opposite problem of what we've got over here, being submissive now we all know what being being sub submissive yes we let people walk all over us we don't say yeah we we listen to what everybody else says and therefore the opposite is you're gonna get aggressive to get what we want. They're both two sides of the same coin y'know, being aggressive isn't what it's all about, being aggressive certainly isn't what it's all about. What's the point of being aggressive with somebody when they're gonna walk away feeling as if they've just been walked all over, so you've still got the same situation you've got one person walking away feeling a little bit fed up and the other person not so if you talk about assertiveness in terms of aggression and in terms of submission i.e. there's going to be a winner and there's going to be a loser depending which way round you look at it then you still haven't quite grasped what we mean by assertiveness. You don't have to be aggressive to be assertive, look at some of these comments we've got here how confident you are in yourself and how you put your point across. How you put your point across getting your point across and not being afraid of doing it, doing it effectively putting the point across, being positive in putting your point across so it's all about putting your point across effectively, clearly congruously i.e. my body says what I mean. I don't have to shout I don't have to be aggressive or intimidate people I just have to tell people what I feel, think etc. Does being assertive mean getting your own way?
[speaker001:] Not necessarily
[speaker002:] It never does, it should never it should never be tied in with getting your own way. Aggressive, aggression might be tied it with getting your own but being assertive is not about getting your own way. Being aggressive is about exactly what you put up here this is me this is how I feel about what we're talking about. This is what I think, not just hiding away and saying get on with it you know get on with whatever you want to do, no this is what I believe is what I believe that we're doing. It doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna get it but it means that you're being true to yourself because you're putting your point across. And it's how you put that point across, if you put it across and if the body language you use when you put it across and do you know what makes the biggest different the biggest difference about how you put it across the most important factor about how you put it across and what you're trying to do? Any idea? We talked about it... being clear, being clear about what it is that you want. Any situation with any person you need to be clear in your mind what you want before if there's any dithering if there's any way I'm not sure that will stop ya it's being sure being convinced of what you want is you know exactly what you want you know which direction you're going in. If you don't there's plenty of people out there that do and they'll walk right all over you to get what they want. So it's not about being aggressive it's not about being aggressive or submissive it's about being clear to true to yourself being aware of what you want from any given situation. Just because you're assertive that doesn't mean you're gonna get everything that you want because you're not being assertive just means that other people are aware of what you want. Being submissive is the co point where what happens when you're submissive you keep it inside you don't feel you're worthy enough or you haven't got you haven't got the self esteem to rate yourself as being able to have what it is that you want, so you keep it inside and you don't say anything and then you walk away should've said this and should've said that and all it does is eat away at you and it does that to you physically as well I mean scientific tests are already showing now that physically these sort of things you do if often be submissive enough what that does it pretty much helps helps you to eat your body up from the inside and causes physical problems which pretty much do that anyway. Because you keep it all inside it against you, you begin to feel bad about yourself you begin to lose your self esteem erm you know and that's the most dangerous thing about being bullied in terms of being at school or whether it's even at work and being submissive is withdraw internalise and to take it out on yourself. All this is you're going to take out on somebody else you take it out on yourself. the total is different opposite on the scale, instead of all this stuff inside of you, you just let it build up and you let it build up until whoosh and you throw it outside at other people, and that itself that that as well causes physical problems. Apparently, I mean I've read this, but I don't know how there was actual references to it as well but apparently what they used to do run a test they used to do was they used to get people very very angry take some blood from them, put put them inside of rats and it would kill the rats. When you get angry you pump all sorts of different chemicals around your body and they don't do your body any good that's for sure, you know you get the adrenalin that starts making everything well making the blood move faster heart beat faster you get other chemicals ready and if those chemicals aren't used properly or if something doesn't happen and it uses those particular chemicals and they're left inside the body then that causes eventually physical illness in some sort of physical wearing of some sort or another, so gradually just the opposite of this where you're you're not internalising your throwing it out, but there's a hell of a lot in there that's been stored up there and bottled up there before it throws out, and when you do tend to be aggressive it's not because you're being aggressive on purpose it's because it's just something that just happens and wells up when you get to a particular point and whoosh out it comes. So you know there's the, don't link aggression with assertion, two difference. Assertion you're clear about what you want, you can't there's no need to get get up about it there's no need to worry about it this is what you want and this is the way it is, you don't have to shout, you just have to stick to your point. exercise that you do in terms of assertion in terms of helping build people's assertion is what we call a broken record exercise, okay where one person wants something and the other person is trying to change their minds, okay, you get it in conversation when people don't take you seriously and you've asked for something and they don't take you serious they try and avoid the point, they try and change the subject. Assertion comes into being when you still bring the conversation back this is what I want nothing else will do, and bringing it right the way back all the time to discuss what it is why it's called a broken record exercise, we'll give it a quick go now. What I want you to do is in your couples I want one of you to pretend that one of you's got a grievance okay, think about it before you do it. One of you's got grievance and you want something done, there is something that you want done and the other person, is the person you want to do it or the person who's got a part to play. Now this other person is trying to trying to change the conversation, trying to take you away from what you're trying what you want done. What I want you to do as as the person who's being assertive is to stick to the point. Stick to the point, even if it means you're acting like a bit of a broken record, get that person make sure they hear what you're saying even if you have to repeat it over and over again. What I want you to practice doing is to try and get yourself saying over and over again regardless of how the other person tries to ask you questions to get you out of it, and then swap over. Okay what I ask you to do as with being assertive, first of all be clear about what it is that you're going to try and do, be clear about what it is and what the situation is, explain it to the partner and then try it and let's see how it doing. Okay, working with anybody, just just for just for a few minutes each it's just because what I want you to experience is what it's like to continually go over the same thing, I want you to experience that, to continually stick to your guns just experience that okay? Alright off you go.... Okay, let's swap over, what I want you to remember is it's not a conversation it's not the try not to get into a conversation what we're trying to do is we're trying to stick to one person's trying to stick to their point the other person's trying to take them off it, okay? I want you to try and do that for as long as you can, the person's who's trying to take them off it you try and take them off that point as long as you can, the other person stick to your guns, okay? Swap it round then off you go again. Okay,
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] How did it go?
[speaker001:] erm... difference
[speaker002:] Different
[speaker001:] Yeah, because I mean it's not a real life situation So I mean you can't talk, the problem with me is I I will always listen to the other person's point of view as I found it difficult to keep going because of the hypothetical situation you know we were talking it about it early
[speaker002:] Yeah
[speaker001:] the second time was better
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] Again I was I was willing to listen to what you got and what was saying
[speaker002:] okay
[speaker001:] and I was [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] okay have you got a problem with the
[speaker001:] yeah, erm yeah it was different erm with it only being role play it was a bit erm... difficult to keep up with it sometimes and actually keep it going like, erm if it was the real life situation outside right you'd know that the person you were talking to had more had been through that situation before
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] we used the situation of taking faulty goods back to a shop
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] so you the person you'd be talking to would be erm trying to put you off to stop you getting something a a direct replacement
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] they'd be offering you a
[speaker002:] okay, okay I understand that
[Kathy:] yeah, it was difficult to to get your what you need back because you always change what
[speaker002:] erm, okay
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] bear that in mind, thank you
[speaker001:] al al although you you're trying to make the same but you do try and change tack a bit
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] erm word it a bit differently
[speaker002:] right
[Neil:] but a when when somebody when it's becoming apparent that somebody is I wouldn't say is not interested in your little complaint that you've got and that that they're they're trying to change to subject it's difficult to keep them on it
[speaker002:] right
[Neil:] But erm I felt er are the he did alright because he I don't think he was trying to change the subject he was trying to justify it
[speaker002:] right
[Neil:] But er, what what had happened as opposed to trying people trying to get
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] right
[Neil:] but er but that was the only thing really it was difficult
[speaker002:] Okay, it is difficult, okay good.
[speaker001:] I I agree it is it's very difficult to do when it's not in a real life situation
[speaker002:] Difficult to do when it's in a real life situation believe me it's harder to do in a real life situation than it is in a situation we've got
[speaker001:] yeah but
[speaker002:] Harder, but it might not be for you I dunno is it?
[speaker001:] er well I found it harder to do it
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] Because you you're not actually talking about anything in particular
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] I mean you know if if you were complaining about something or if you were asking for something you'd be asking for it because you knew what you wanted only as you said it's all about being clear about what you want
[speaker002:] yes, yes it is true
[speaker001:] erm if if like I mean for instance we weren't clear about what we were talking about
[speaker002:] right okay
[speaker001:] so there's a big difference
[speaker002:] okay good point and that is that is a point, that you need to be clear about what you want to role plays on as good as the real thing you know but then again sometimes you know sometimes I've listened to people saying well role plays are a bit harder than real life harder than real life why are we talking about being assertive now. You know yeah may be may be and it is difficult situations do it but I think some of the problem comes in that it's very difficult for us to to stick with the point and hear ourselves say the same thing over and over again because it doesn't feel right how many how many of you didn't feel right doing doing what you were doing? How many of you?
[Kathy:] Don't want to be repetitive do you?
[speaker002:] That's right don't want to feel you don't want to be a pain
[speaker001:] yeah
[Kathy:] Mm
[speaker002:] and you carry on but sometimes sometimes it is the only way to do it stick with what you say and keep going. Now yes there are times when other people give you arguments and will try and change it around and and you know yes we will listen to them and will agree that but what we want to know is ultimately is what's going to be done about it. Now what's gonna be done about the way we feel is anything gonna be done about it, is the other person taking note of what way we feel and are they gonna do something about it or are they trying to dismiss it? And I think what we're trying to do is to see that we're being treated fairly just as we might listen to that person's argument as well. So it's not a case of just really being listened to, it's not just a case of just being clear, clear in terms of what you want by telling people what you want, and then finding out if they're going to do it. So assertive is just being clear in what you want being prepared to keep going until you've got something along those lines rather than letting people dismiss you or make you feel as though they've dismissed you and your point not being considered i.e. your point not being heard or going away feeling that your point you didn't have a fair crack because you didn't give your point properly. It's just a case of being true to what you feel and being true to yourself giving yourself as good a chance as any of being heard. I've got a little graph up here now one thing about communication and with good communication what you can do is you can actually increase trust and co-operation amongst people. You know if you communicate well with people what happens? Trust increases because if you can talk to people openly and they talk to you openly and you're communicating then you're quite trusting with that person. If your communication is good and you can work together to increase that co-operation and co-operation gets better really puts us with trust and co-operation puts us on a high scale. These are the two real components that we need from people, everybody needs to get trust and co-operation. If you trust somebody okay you're quite open to them, they're quite open to you if you co-operate you're flexible, you're being flexible and you like to work together and what happens is is if you've got low trust and low co-operation with somebody well what you've got is really everybody both people or everybody involved being defensive constantly being def defensive, if you don't trust somebody and you know you're not co-operative you're constantly looking over your back, what are they doing are they doing that's gonna mess something up you know what are they trying to do now. Now here when you end up with a lot of having arguments and listening to a lot of arguments a lot of them are like win lose. As far as being listening to you talking today earlier on it seems to you set up in your minds a win lose situation, I'll show that. That's a win lose, you might've lost that time but you're gonna get it back another time. If we look at a relationship or any type of communication as a situation where somebody's going to win and somebody's going to lose there's not gonna be much chance of two people working together on that so what happens is somebody's got to lose. Nobody wants to lose and if nobody wants to lose it means it gets fiercer and it goes on for longer and it does takes a long time to resolve, if it ever is and often to the detriment of one person to the success of another. You don't have to be win lose all the time, because otherwise you're gonna have a battle. One person doesn't wanna lose and the other one wants to win and is going to go backwards and forwards you just end up pushing and pushing and pushing against each other, pointless. But think about it any form of any form of problem that you have arguments that you have tend to tend to develop like that. You have up here you've got neither win lose but it's like it's a respectable thing you know you respect each other you don't trust them completely and you don't co-operate completely but they just respect just not you're just not willing to go that further little bit and it becomes more of a more of a rather than a win lose or a win win it's more of a people half and half okay I'll give this much if you give that much. Now what's the word that I want it begins with a C,... I'll remember it tomorrow if you ever need to talk about it tomorrow.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] I haven't got it written down, oh a compromise that's it yeah, a compromise. Both sides are willing to give something up okay. So nobody wins nobody loses anything and nobody really gets what they wanted out of it at the end anyway or not everything that they wanted. However, there are ways of coming up to here we've got a lot of co-operation a lot of trust and here you get what's called synergies, new names, have you heard that name before synergy, synergy? No, I'll try to explain later on. Basically it's two things coming together and becoming more than their whole, you've got two things two people working together producing more than what two people can produce it's the relationship that produces that extra little bit more. Synergy,... and what happens here there is no such thing as a lose you've got win win. Both parties can get something from that situation, if you trust people and you look at things a relationship over a period of time rather than this particular thing this is what I want now this is what I'm gonna get rather than well okay I'll help you do this now and later on they'll help me do something else, it becomes a win win. Now how you watch look at the relationship what your communication's like how much trust and how much you got co-operation you've got will depend on what type of of a relationship you have. That doesn't necessarily mean that everybody is going to have a win win relationship all the time but why not go for it. What stops us from going for it, nothing stops us from going for it. Just because you're looking for win win relationships all the time that doesn't mean that you're gonna get walked over all the time because by being assertive and by this is this is really what I want, what is it that you want and looking, listening to the other person's point of view as well as making sure your point of view goes across as well somewhere, somewhere in all of that through all this down here, there's a way of finding something for both people. If one person's aggressive and the other one's submissive win lose. We're not looking at that point of view we're looking at more like working together to find a solution. It takes a little bit of a little bit of maturity a little bit of communication skills and not everybody's got that. So who does the responsibility come down to in the end?... It comes down to you, us you can't blame the other person, the other person's what the other is you've got no right to change that other person ever. That person is that person it's the way they are. The only person you've got a right to change is yourself. Therefore if you've got a relationship with somebody and all you seem to constantly to be doing is constantly arguing and it's either I win or you win you're never gonna get out of that unless other time. If we look at a relationship or any type of commu mean taking a bit of a different look at things thinking well what is it that this person wants from me and what is it that I want from this person? And when you can be clear about what it is you want and be clear what it is they want you've got more of a chance to get the solution to win win rather than if you're just interested in your position and your side.... Any comments?... Any comments
[speaker001:] No
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] right no
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] Alright, if it's so easy why don't we all do it what stops us
[Lisa:] Because you don't want to be the one to let go
[speaker002:] To let go
[speaker001:] It's a case of if I do what's gonna happen if the other person don't do it
[speaker002:] right
[speaker001:] I can trust
[speaker002:] trust, trust, somebody's gonna do it somewhere otherwise it just escalates
[speaker001:] But surely to if you've been working with your partner for a long time he's gonna it anyway
[speaker002:] Yeah I agree with that, if you know somebody well, especially if you know somebody well and if you work with people and you communicate with people you build up trust, and if the communication's there and people are talking to each other and passing on information, information's going round and round trust'll be there, the only time trust disappears is when somebody feels somebody's keeping something back. Not giving all of the information. When you work with people and you communicate you listen to what they say and you make sure you say what you need to say then that trust is there and that trust builds and it fosters trust, and really that's what we've gotta be looking for in the work situation. The problem with the work situation is that sometimes we tend to settle in, and there are you know, there are people who it's very very difficult to be trusted, to be trusting with to be co-operative with because we tend to feel that they're not the trusting or co-operative type. Maybe that's a mistake we've made and that's the way we've turned it round looking at people. Maybe there are other ways and other ways of forming relationships without people getting to know that person or working with that person. Maybe just listening. The onus is on nobody else, it's on you. You know and there's no such thing as failure, at the end of the day there's only results. So you know you might think well I just can't get on with him. Well all that means is that you just haven't got on with him so far, or you haven't quite found the right way to get on with that person yet.... Gonna stop there. I'll want you to think about that tonight, I'm gonna hand out a few sheets that might might explain a little bit of synergy erm I believe synergy this is my this is more of a sort of worldly view. Now I'm not I like I like the thought of but I prefer the thought of in work and how people can work together using this type of thing and think about it in the context of work rather than in the context that it talks about erm and it'll be interesting to talk to you tomorrow so if to see what you think have the think about the things we've talked about. Tomorrow we've got quite a lively day ahead of us erm by the time we do our group work tomorrow first thing in the morning, and also tomorrow after that you'll be doing a role play as well using the things that you've picked up today and seeing how many of them you can practice and put into action what you talked about. Fun day, more fun than today and today I hope I've provided some of the ground work can't there's a lot of things I would've liked to have gone into more detail and generally I do but today there's just there's just not enough time in a day to do it. You know communications is a very big area there's a lot to be talked about erm certainly rapport and leading and things like that you asked for that we could've done a lot more with, the type of language people use we could do a lot more with but when we've got a limited time we're gonna have to take a limited snapshot and I hope that what we've done so far today you found useful and I hope when we put it into practice tomorrow maybe you can understand a little bit more of some of things that we've been talking about today. Please have a think you know have a think about some of the things have a look out if you get out anywhere tonight watching people when they're together just watch them any ideas that you have tomorrow we'll start off with the first ten minutes just going over some of the things we talked about this evening. Thanks very much for your time it's five o'clock have a nice evening and I'll see you in the morning. Nine o'clock tomorrow okay? the things that we've talked about you know the complete of the company worker and you're happy with those
[speaker001:] Oh yeah
[speaker002:] okay, okay thanks
[Neil:] I think in certain aspects as as a team member it could be me er low in dominance I mean that that certainly is me
[speaker002:] right
[Neil:] erm I know it's easy to say but I was prepared to anyone says which is obviously you know what I'd be prepared to do
[speaker002:] right
[Neil:] erm but I'm not the sort to sort of push meself forward in front of other people
[speaker002:] right
[Neil:] try to put my views forward
[speaker002:] okay
[Neil:] erm extrovert I don't quite know about that [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] alright, the terms extrovert and introvert here I mean we've had two comments on those are used slightly different. Extrovert doesn't necessarily
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] doesn't necessarily isn't necessarily you know the image the popular image of an extrovert which means you know somebody who's always the loudest noise at the party and always that's that's really slightly not quite right picture of an extrovert. Or likewise an introvert doesn't necessarily mean it's a person who doesn't talk to anybody who keeps themselves to themselves and is a miserable, it's not like that at all. What it basically means is that an extrovert tends to tends to have a wide area of interests but won't investigate them as much as perhaps that that deeply, and that includes friends as well, and that includes people around them and they look at the wideness rather than the depth. Introverts are more the other way round whereas they've got narrow interests, narrow fields of interest but they look at them in depth. Likewise with friends they've probably got fewer friends but the friends they have got are very close friends and they know them on a much deeper level. That's really the interpretation of extrovert and introvert and the fact that it can apply to you know being loud and gregarious as an extrovert or being quiet and keeps to himself as an introvert that's more of a popular view which isn't the sort of thing we're trying to put across. It's more of the way that you see things. Wide and not so deep for an extrovert, very narrow very deep for an introvert that type of thing alright. So don't put too much emphasis on that. So you've probably got a wide amount of interests
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah
[speaker002:] But you don't got you might not have one that you go into specifically in too much detail
[speaker001:] Not particularly, no
[speaker002:] Alright Okay, like friends probably got a lot of friends
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] and then maybe only one or two or three other interests you got you go to into very deeply the rest are just sort of friends
[speaker001:] yeah, that's
[speaker002:] okay, well that's extrovert so we in that particular instance. Alright did that make it make it a little bit better?
[speaker001:] Yeah
[speaker002:] Okay good
[Marcus:] I agree with the a I'll jump into things first and yeah and get bored half way through somebody else
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Marcus:] Um could be worked out. Yeah speaking about it because I do like to
[speaker002:] Okay
[Marcus:] The Chairman,
[speaker002:] Okay well don't worry don't worry he can't you know just think of something though having said that if you look at the role that you played in the group moving towards the chairman's style, taking over the group perhaps becoming and you weren't a person that sort of took over and forced your views on everybody but you were certainly up there at the front with and listening to people taking information and manipulating everything that you had to fit what was coming in from everybody so that does show Chairman's skills, Chairman tendencies
[Marcus:] Yes, it was subconsciously though
[speaker002:] Well perhaps in the future that it might be one thing that you might want to lift up and develop as time goes on well done mate. Is it, Is it? I mean there there's very heavily team worker isn't it?
[Lisa:] Yeah, yeah
[speaker002:] A person that would like to share their with everybody
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] that's a classic team worker
[Lisa:] to me yeah
[speaker002:] that's a team worker, alright, okay. Now having said all this you know let's not identify with these too much like the that's me you know okay, it gives you an incl an idea of your in of your stance where what sort of attitude philosophy and behaviours you prefer to have within a group, okay and if you match those back to what we saw in the group erm then it's not surprising that the group got on so well together and you know we didn't have too much conflict with the amount of team workers involved because nobody in there wanted to upset anybody else in the team. You know that's really why why we've got so many team workers isn't it? And I mean I put an asterisk down there to say that's what I thought was going to come out quite heavily simply because this is is the case on these courses, you know the people that we get on these courses every single one of these that we've had, and we must have had coming up to what over ten now, every single one we've had people that the most the majority of people have had team work very high on the score. I wonder if it's something to do with the job that you do or the people you have to work with I don't know but that's generally the tendency of people in these groups, team workers come out quite highly. Let's go through all the different bits and see why, I mean all these all these type of things would indicate a different type of person different types of personality. Company worker and team worker are very very similar, except the team worker is more of a person that's interested in the other people within that team, whereas the company worker's more interested in the organisation of the company itself. You know so it's it's it's six of one and half a dozen of the other really, but the company worker learns to be the guidelines the rules the routines of the company and er also really backs up the company line you know and what they're doing for them really is for the company. Big big quite a big priority there so and you know are obviously people that like them like the guidelines that come with the company like the ideas of belonging to the company and like the ideas of actually extolling the virtues of the company and following the company policy. Ah Chairman. Chairman's the person that can sit in with the group of people and is good in terms of receiving information from people and disseminating information and giving it back out again making sure that everybody's being brought in so he's a person really not not so much a leader but he will be a person who can keep the group together and can make sure that all the information flows around the group and that everybody's getting a fair say a fair crack of the whip in terms of what's going on in terms of orienting towards a task, so everything's towards a task you need towards a task. The Chairman will make sure that it stays going in that direction and everybody works together rather than against each other so you got a high score there you know and as we saw in the you might not think you've got those Chairman's skills but then what you did in the group where you were quite a central part of what was going on perhaps indicates that these can be developed. Okay? Shaper. Well shapers are the people that say this way chaps, you know, no no
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] says this way, and the trouble is if you get two or three shapers in a group, the group sort of starts going Mm an
[speaker001:] Mm
[speaker002:] in different directions, erm we very very fine shapers in this in these sessions. I've had two or three I think, very rarely do we find them and shapers tend to go out on a limb they tend to want to lead they tend to want to control they want people to follow their way they do tend to be the people that dig in and say you know this is the way we do it. Hence if you have a few shapers you might have noticed the tendencies in the group group discussion that we had because there'll be people digging in and saying no this is the right way to do it. No I'm right and you're wrong, and you can tell very very clearly when you have a shaper within a group. One shaper in a group isn't too bad, more than one shaper in a group you start having a few problems. The plant is not somebody that sits there and grows
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] The plant is somebody that comes up with ideas constantly. Ideas, ideas everywhere ideas all the time what am I do this what about this how about this? Some of them are absolute rubbish some of them are very very very good. But the plant can't work in a group unless they have in order to evaluate or you know or other people sharing other people listening to those ideas and saying what was that idea again. How could we use this what are the benefits of doing this or the disadvantages of doing this so that you've got people within the group who could as a plant and know what to do with those ideas he comes up with them or she comes up with them don't know what to do with them just comes up it's up to the rest of the group and monitor evaluate you know the person that's always putting things that never work. to do it, no that'll never do it erm constantly they need. But those people even those these people have their necessary necessary place because otherwise the whole group would merrily go on and do everything they decide to do without somebody sitting and saying wait a minute why are we actually doing this? So the plant's important because the plant has the ideas. Plants need to be nurtured they need to be looked after and they need to be made they need to know that they come out with id with their ideas. Otherwise if they sit there and be quiet you lose a hell of a lot of ideas from that one person. And the ideas need to be caught they need to be done something with by the rest of the group. Resource investigator resource investigator got a phone stuck to his ear. You know, you want something he knows where to get it. You know you need some information, resource investigator can either give it to you because he's got it or can find it for you. The resource investigator can like a team that's always looking outside of a group to try and find the information necessary outside of the group for the rest of the group. So he'll go out and bring information into the group from various different sources. He'll find the sources from one of his various contacts. He's probably got a lot of contacts along the way for anything anything you want you ask him okay.
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] He's the man
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] So and again resource investigator is the person that you pack out to br to gather the information for the rest of the team the vital information for the rest of the team. I mean you came quite high in that I would imagine that's something you quite enjoy doing. You're into facts and figures and knowing people and knowing where to get
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] yeah
[speaker001:] yeah
[speaker002:] that's resource investigator. Monitor evaluator, they can usually make themselves the pest of the group because everybody thinks they're so bloody negative. Pessimistic boring old farts i think
[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] But you know having said that they are there for a reason and the reason they are there for is is if the group didn't have somebody to pull them back down again then they'd might be going off in all different directions doing all these wonderful things and ending up nowhere because you haven't had somebody who pulls them back and says well hold on a minute. If you're gonna do this have you thought of this and what about this and how does this work. They help you monitor those ideas and what's going on. Usually very very pessimistic and always look always look on the on the pessimistic side of things you know all that sort of stuff but you know they are a very important part of the group, you know given given their space to be like they are you know don't take them too seriously remember their job is to criticise and their job is to pull things to pieces. Team worker I really really want to make sure that the whole team as people work together well that everybody's happy such is the comment, is everybody happy, he wants to make sure that everybody as individuals is getting on well there's no stresses or pressures through individuals, individual relationships he tries to keep things smooth within the team. Completer finisher well if you want something done give it to the completer finisher. Other people that have completer finisher traits in abundance is people like secretaries. Because they always end up having to tidy all the knots tidy everything up and finish things off. And these are people like you say have got pride in finishing things off, you know there's a lot of people within groups who don't mind starting things off but don't fancy finishing them. You know start off and then they'll drag drag drag and it needs that completer finisher to actually get that close it down and say right that's done, off it goes. And finally, the expert again we spoke about that, a good example really is in the computer world where you have individuals who get on really well with computers and programming but put them in a group and they really don't provide any in fact if anything they take away from the group. Their presence is a detraction in the group because they're not willing to add to the group you know you've got to have this attitude if you're in a group well the attitude you need to help the group is how can I help that group? And not I shouldn't be here I really don't know what I should be saying I really haven't got as much knowledge as everybody else that doesn't matter, if you're in a group it doesn't matter what you know and what you don't know there's still things going on within that group that you can contribute to
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] the group you don't have to be an expert on something to contribute to the group. You can question other people, other people might have that knowledge and you can question and clarify and form in your mind the ideas that you need and maybe put them to the group as a group. So we need people with different personalities and different types to be within that within any group for a group to be very successful you need some sort of share of the different types of group if you had a predominance of shapers you'd get nowhere. If you had a predominance of company workers where everybody run around following the rules well there'd be nobody else to do anything else. erm Chairman chairpeople you need one or two chairmen chairmen so you can actually pull the whole thing together and keep the group together. Plant, we'll you've got to have your crea creativity from somewhere your ideas have got to come from somewhere that's the plant. Resource investigators the information the group needs to work on has got to come from outside somewhere and resource investigators bring it in. Monitor evaluator to actually check and to give you the pessimistic side of everything to break everything down why it won't work why this should be done why that should be done instead. Team worker to make sure everybody's working together and happy. Completer finishes finishers because at the end of the day that job has got to be finished off. so everybody plays a specific role. Now if there's only three or four or five people in the group you'll probably find that people who works there their strengths and if there's anything missing in a group then sometimes in a good group other people come up
[speaker001:] [cough]
[speaker002:] take over those particular aspects where they haven't got people to fill those needs. So in a group you don't need one of everybody you could have just half of these but everybody could fall in maybe two roles within that group. But you do need the different personalities to come within a group to make a group successful. It takes different people different styles who like to do different things to different meanings to be part of the rest. So whenever you see people who're not quite like you and maybe there's something about their workstyle that you don't like think about it this way. There is something that those people contribute to the group as a whole. The important thing is to make sure that those people that have got those particular skills are given those roles to be able to perform that role perform use those skills. If they're not it's a waste of a skill. Bear that in mind. Any comments, any questions? Any observations?... Bear in mind you've got all the information there you know what what you are what yourselves and remember that just because these are the scores you got today that doesn't mean that is what you are, it means they are probably the leanings that you've got at the moment. but that doesn't mean to say that you can for example you could become build up these Chairman skills that you've got okay. You can work on those and you can build them up in two or three or four year's time job changes this might take a bit more of a a higher priority. So therefore your team worker might come down a little bit score just to add on to your Chairman's skills. Likewise, you look at any of the other scores that we had fairly high up, for example you rate your plant it's a possibility there that you've got you know you've got these ideas that you're not putting forward that you could do and develop that side of. So just because you've got those it doesn't mean that's what you are and that's the way you're always going to be it'll change and it'll change as time goes on it change as your role changes. It'll change as you get older erm you won't necessarily just have that all the time we used to run these courses for students who had just come out of college and they were joining their company to work for the first first time and we used to do this and we used to find that many of the people who had just taken out the job for the first time had very very flat scores. Coming from college a lot of them used to work in groups but a lot of them had worked more individually and they had very flat scores i e everything was quite equal and they didn't have anything coming through okay. Probably because they hadn't re-used they got there by two or three or four years time when they came on to the next level of management the junior management erm we did this with them again and you would begin to find certain skills had evolved and certain certain team strengths had arisen because they do change over the years. Bear in mind what strengths you've got what strengths you'd like to have and if you know that you know what to improve and how to improve how to develop those other areas that you'd like. Okay? Useful? Interesting? Good good good remember that when you go back into a how many people actually do work with other people where they work where they work?
[speaker001:] Yep
[speaker002:] One,
[speaker001:] from outside
[speaker002:] Okay right as well as inside the company
[speaker001:] Yeah
[speaker002:] But more outside the company
[speaker001:] Ah inside mainly
[speaker002:] Right
[Kathy:] I work with a lot of different people we've all got individual jobs that tie up with each other 's jobs
[speaker002:] How many people
[Kathy:] Well I'm actually in my own office but it joins on to another office
[speaker002:] Right
[Kathy:] and there are three other people in there that
[speaker002:] Right
[speaker001:] To do with my job
[speaker002:] Okay
[speaker001:] Yeah well it but ah similar to contracts personally