[speaker001:] And in terrible conditions, erm, another country is Zaire where there is currently, I mean I'd think there was a military coup or something there in the last few weeks, but these things are colonies which weren't connected to Britain, hoping I'm being, I think it's a French colony, they use a Belgian colony or is an ex Belgian colony, maybe in Belgium and France you would get more news about those two countries, but here we don't, because they, we haven't got that colonial connection that makes us interested perhaps... erm and, and when we do find out about South Africa because it used to be a colony, we do find out about, I mean Ethiopia I think we found out about because of the disaster that's happening there in several of the countries all around it, used to be British colonies. But there are all sorts of reasons why we don't get that news, one guy said well if we wanted to do it I know if we wanted to make the news that, according to the level of human suffering we'd start off with Ethiopia then we'd have the Kurdish problem and you know just made a living of disaster areas around the world, he said we might of finished up with a light hearted discussion on the poll tax, you know as the, as the light, the lightener at the end of the news if you like, and our, what news we receive here depends on our perception of the world, but mainly it's the other way round our perception of the world is, is what, you know what it, or rather the news that we get actually manufactures our perception of the world. You can find out about world events if you read a good newspaper, somebody said to me yesterday in class well we don't get the news about these places, you do, you just don't get it on the T V, it's there in the Guardian every day, it's there in the Independent every day, quite a lot of it gets reported in the Telegraph, but it's no good if you're reading the Mirror, you won't get it in there, you won't get it in the Mail or any other of those newspapers, the tabloids, but these things are happening, why would we be interested? Why would we be interested in finding out these things?... Do you read the international section of papers then any of you? Why not?
[speaker002:] Boring
[speaker001:] Pardon?
[speaker002:] Boring
[speaker001:] Boring, why is it boring? don't need newspapers anyway, who reads newspapers?... What do you read? mm, mm and do you ever read the international section? Yes, you find that you pick certain countries that you're interested in? okay... what do you what about you? yeah, yeah, and you read them in the international section?
[speaker002:] Yeah
[speaker001:] Yeah no, no, that's right, don't you pick on particular issues or particular countries that you're interested in?
[speaker002:] Sometimes I do, yeah, especially
[speaker001:] yeah, yeah yeah yeah
[speaker002:] and things like that...
[speaker001:] Why do you think that most of the people in this room don't read newspapers? Do you do general studies? Who does general studies? you should be reading newspapers mm, okay, you know that you can get the Guardian cheap don't you?
[speaker002:] mm, mm
[speaker001:] okay, you also know about the editorial control of newspapers do you? Were there any left newspapers in this country? Is there anything other than the Tory Party line?... Don't know
[speaker002:] Yes I do
[speaker001:] Pardon?
[speaker002:] I think it's, well the
[speaker001:] yeah well it's Today the Mail and the Guardian are the only ones that put anything other than the Party line
[speaker002:] Mm
[speaker001:] well, the Party being the Tory party, no matter which party's in power... because they're all owned by Tories basically, erm... I hope nobody reads the Sun, but I I'm not gonna ask who reads the Sun, if you do I hope you're critical of it, especially page three
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] erm, okay, but this information is there for you to find out about, the reason why I would say it's important to find out about those things, well one, you tell me why do you need that? okay, anybody got any other reasons why they think that maybe we ought to know what's going on in other countries, why, why would we be interested in the roots in Kenya, India, why would we be interested in those countries? which do what for us? yeah yeah okay, can anybody think of anything that you eat, that comes from somewhere else? To eat or drink, got coffee, tea
[speaker002:] Maize
[speaker001:] Maize
[speaker002:] Vegetables
[speaker001:] Vegetables, oranges, you get oranges from Israel and Spain, you get pasta from Italy you get lentils from Ethiopia, did you know that? Lentils coming from Ethiopia, you get wheat from the States, rice from the States,ap apples from France, tea from India, coffee from Brazil and Columbia, sugar from the Windward Islands, bananas from all over the place, you know... those are the things that keep us alive, no, you know, whether we one think they are or not, but I mean them things are what keeps the economy alive for one, it's also what keeps us personally alive... if you don't know why we take an interest in Third World issues, I would say that it's that, we're dependent on these countries, we could produce enough foods for our own needs, but we wouldn't have oranges, coffee, tea, sugar, you know cos we can't grow them in this country... we, we really depend on those things to stay alive, and for that reason alone we should have some kind of interest, if you went to Kenya for example they would be staggered at how little you know about their country given how much they know about yours... they know a lot about this country, a lot of it is a bit loopy, but then what you know about their country is probably a bit off centre as well, and you know I hope that this is something that we're reversing in this section, our perceptions of the Third World or the south or whatever we choose to call it, colour a lot of the things that we think and do and say and it increases the amount of racism that there is around us all, all those kind of things, erm and I think that it is really important to look at what a perception is, you know, for example what's your perception of this?... What is it?
[speaker002:] Just a piece of paper with writing
[speaker001:] Just a piece of paper with some writing on it, just one piece of paper?
[speaker002:] A few
[speaker001:] A few bits of paper with some writing on it, what colour is it? John well okay, my perception of this is a yellow piece of paper with a map on it exactly, yeah and we can do that with everything, we can do that with everything, this is my perception and that's your perception of this thing that I'm holding in my hand, everything that we've seen... have that ability... you know, we've got the ability to do that with everything, what we need to do sometimes is walk around the issue if you like and look at it from another perspective and, and this is what we're doing with Ethiopia, now, erm, the good section again was looking at images and particularly the fact that a lot of images are very negative and throwing an alternative view, the second section we're looking at news coverage which is very sketchy, erm, it doesn't provide a complete picture at all, and this third section well you saw what that's about there now, can you make sure you are somewhere where you can see this please.
[Donald:] I'll tell you the reason why I like to record what we say, somebody came to our house Thursday, did I mention it to you on the phone?
[Anna:] Yeah yeah
[Donald:] And er they're doing some market research, this is what it's about, the national treasury of spoken English, a group of reading dictionary publishers and universities are participating in a government funded research project to compile a national treasury of the English language. For the first time dictionary writers and language researchers will be able to show how words are used in ordinary every day conversation. The British Market Research Bureau, an independent market research agency, are asking a large cross section of people around the country to help with this task of, by recording their conversations. These will then be transcribed and computered and built into a database which will contain several million words. The case and conversation details will all be completely anonymous, so no one will know who has used the words or whose voice it is on the tape, but together they will provide a permanent record of how the English language was spoken in the nineteen nineties. So we can talk about what we want and you know what we're interested in, in the most
[Anna:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] so
[Anna:] Yeah
[Donald:] it can be alright couldn't it then, them Canaries
[Anna:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] yes
[Anna:] Are you ready in?
[Donald:] Yes it's all er, it's recording now
[Anna:] [LAUGHTER] Thank you, oh
[Donald:] Mind you, you know, on the instructions it tells me
[Anna:] Mm
[Donald:] to really, don't tell the people the recording's on
[Anna:] Mm
[Donald:] until afterwards and if, if you want it wiping off after, well that's alright you know?
[Anna:] Mm
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] I can go over the tape or wipe parts of it out
[Anna:] Mm
[Donald:] so
[Anna:] Who's, who's it your handing it in then afterwards that thing then?
[Donald:] Some somebody come came to my house on Thursday
[Anna:] And what do they pay you? [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] Well
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] they pay, they pay, they are paying me a little bit, I think it ought to go up in price a bit though myself
[Anna:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] he give, he give me, there's twenty tapes of you know, hour and a half each tape
[Anna:] Mm
[Donald:] and there's twenty of them and the, I don't suppose, they don't expect me to fill both sides of all them tapes
[Anna:] Mm
[Donald:] but he give them to me just in case I do
[Anna:] Mm
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] he'll give me twenty five pounds worth of er, erm Marks and Spencer
[Mary:] Voucher
[Anna:] Marks
[Donald:] Yeah...
[Anna:] So what they going to do? Is make it another grammar or er, opening the English language speech or er?
[Donald:] Well this is rather strange you should ask that question, cos I just bought, bought an Engli er, erm dictionary
[Anna:] Mm
[Donald:] about a month ago, and there's words in this dictionary er I said to myself oh fancy letting them, that's slang you know?
[Anna:] Mm, mm, mm
[Donald:] Perhaps, they probably think in another hundred and fifty years that slang will be the, the vocabulary of you know
[Anna:] Can I just for one minute, I only give example
[Donald:] Yes
[Anna:] when I came to England... I speak perfect Italian
[Donald:] Yeah
[Anna:] and I told the English language have got about fifty percent of Roman ways
[Donald:] Roman?
[Anna:] Roman
[Donald:] Yeah
[Anna:] Latin
[Donald:] Yeah
[Anna:] because I couldn't speak English at all, I speak the, I could read a paper or a book, I dunno what is all about, but I used to get because you got on it for instant like... mm...
[Donald:] Oh well the Romans invaded England didn't they?
[Anna:] Wait a minute I, I show you, I show you something what is, what I mean... supporting
[Donald:] Yes
[Anna:] supporting any
[Donald:] Yes
[Anna:] in, in Italian it says supporto
[Donald:] Oh yes, yes
[Anna:] erm... plagued, no wait a minute plagued is horrible, animal, animal, animal, animal, animal, er misery, misery
[Donald:] Yeah
[Anna:] miseria
[Donald:] Oh
[Anna:] erm
[Donald:] the first, er, for two hundred years the Romans were here weren't they?
[Anna:] eh brutal, er brute, er so many er only got a little bit more, eh sort of like you've got er, I dunno, accent or something or add to it a few words, a few letters I mean, er a more I, a different accent you go to Manchester they said er different accent you go and so different one and to me from the beginning, not now, but from the beginning I was fascinate, I says why do they finish in Italian er ways, or add, you switch and them coins, erm, it still says instead of the Queen they say did you know that?
[Mary:] Yeah...
[Anna:] You know what this means the Queen
[Donald:] Oh I didn't know
[Anna:] and it's the, still in the Roman, er, er weeds, no wait er region it something so round, rotondo
[Donald:] mm...
[Anna:] problem problema, people, popelo, erm... terrified, terrifico, terrified I think is terrifico, I'm not sure of this one... suffering, suferto
[Donald:] Mm
[Anna:] er, er in somebody did say, I don't know that history, but they said a Roman er language eh today erm Brittany
[Donald:] Yeah so that's, so that's, that
[Mary:] so you see you haven't had a language then brought into a Roman
[Anna:] No, no no they didn't, no, no, no
[Donald:] Oh I can't speak very well English and I
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Anna:] Er you know my mother thinks er where is Welsh language come from?
[Donald:] I don't know, it's just got it somewhere from the East somewhere isn't it? Somewhere in the East
[Mary:] India
[Donald:] the Welsh one's
[Anna:] Er Nepal from Nepal, Nepal they're speak Fin language, do you know that? There Roman time they, well as you know yourself a few hundred years they hope to find er nearly half of the world
[Donald:] Yes
[Anna:] erm when they for Britain the go to prison is, I mean the only people to go to mountain er was Nepal and they left in Wales and there they orin a region is from making
[Donald:] Oh yes
[Anna:] from Himalayan anyway that er
[Donald:] Oh it's, it's, it's an amazing isn't it when you think of all these languages, if erm, if they all come from Adam and Eve
[Anna:] Mm
[Donald:] then you'd think they would be just one language wouldn't you?
[Anna:] Mm, when we have it this morning er talk, er in Watch Tower but he you know about when, when er Jehovah confuse them because they want to what's the word, they'd er, they'd what's erm
[Donald:] mm just have a look er Genesis is it?
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] Just have a look
[speaker002:] ...
[Mary:] Genesis now then
[Donald:] Genesis where the one says, now all you continue to be of one language and of one set of words so where did all of the other languages come from? It goes on to say [reading] and it came about that in thy journeying eastward they eventually discovered a valid plain and a land of Shinar and they took up growing there and they began to say each one to the other come on let us make bricks and bake... and bake with a burning process, so bricks served as stone for them and served as malter for them. Now [cough] they now said come on let us build ourselves a city and also a tower with its in the heavens and let us make a celebrated name for ourselves for fear we may be scattered all over the earth [], well that was God's command wasn't it there they said be scattered all over the earth
[Mary:] Mm, yeah
[Donald:] and they didn't want to be scattered all over the earth so they built this er, he wanted to make, to make a name for themselves didn't they?
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] [reading] Come on might as well er sell the city or sell the town in the heavens to make, and let us make it celebrated name for ourselves [] it's, people today have just got the same attitude haven't they? They have to make names for themselves, so it mentions about, it says Jehovah verses [reading] and Jehovah proceeded to go down to see what they see, to see the city and they tell that the sons of man have gods, after that Jehovah said look there are one people and there is one language for the north and this is they start to do, why now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unobtainable for them, come now let us go down and their confuse their language [], he'd be speaking to angels now wouldn't he
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] or to Jesus [reading] and to confuse their language that they may not listen to one another 's language and accordingly Jehovah scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth [] so, and that was God's purpose for them to be er spread out all over the earth cos God knew that city life would only break down and all these centuries have passed since then and there's urgent proof throughout the year, the cities, the cities don't work so God had his own way, give it, the one, his way is the only one that works and thus when we pray for this king of Columbia that only face over and our kingdoms that we have today, so... one thing about language.
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] Now that, you speak the Russian language don't you er, I'm saying this now for the benefit of the tape
[Anna:] Yeah
[Donald:] explain, speak their Russian language and when he came like, he said, he was saying it's not, so he promised again he was saying
[Anna:] Well... he, he telephoned me week after didn't he? He said he's at the home and everything's going alright and he's saying he's already sent us the, the, the invitation, but I have no invitation
[Mary:] Haven't arrived yet
[Anna:] I have nothing here, but I mean you said Ukraine already to buy it, they're not allowed calls, telephone calls, not out, not in, closed postage as well so it must be something stuck in there
[Donald:] Oh yes
[Anna:] for I don't think advice er, what time you said will be in use? It's not very good even now they ought
[Mary:] Mm, turn back
[Anna:] the Ukrainian talk now, and they tried to get rid of Yeltsin
[Donald:] Oh yes
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] is it, is it on the telly now? Or what times does it come on?
[Mary:] Well until, er quarter to ten will be one and then ten ten past
[Anna:] No, be nine nine forty five I think
[Donald:] Oh yes I want
[Anna:] so it's not very good, I'm not surprised so you'd better be er [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] I, I wouldn't go
[Anna:] No no it's too dangerous
[Donald:] no I wouldn't go
[Anna:] we going revolution in there and if
[Mary:] We're going to Australia instead [LAUGHTER]
[Anna:] we're going to Australia or Jamaica somewhere
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] Well you know really... I can't, I can't see any point in staying around here myself, yeah, it's just my mum really, if anything happened to her then I'll move you know... I'd move from Newcastle, Stoke On Trent area
[Anna:] How old is your mum?
[Donald:] Eighty six
[Anna:] Oh that is big age, is she still with you or in a home?
[Donald:] She's in a home...
[Anna:] This one, no, oh no this is is she in a
[Donald:] no, she, no, nobody never so...
[Mary:] Mm
[Anna:] Very, very confusing this is, the world is going upside down and he don't know what's going to happen next you see, for instance looking a year ago, two years ago the wall, the Berlin Wall was standing and the Russian empire was feared, all over the world, and now this day, it just fell on its face
[Donald:] That's just two years ago
[Anna:] Yeah
[Mary:] Yeah
[Anna:] it just fell on its face and it's such a shame that the land like that er, er rich in everything, neglected themselves to that state that they're begging for food
[Donald:] Yes
[Anna:] it's, it's unbelievable, unbelievable
[Donald:] Yes
[Anna:] but yet when you look in Book of Daniel which, where tau he talks about er the north king and the south king
[Donald:] Yes it does
[Anna:] there, there, there be fighting and shoving and pushing for the power and then it says there that it will look as though the, the north king will take all over, all over the what, what spread all over the earth and then it says gradually he will go right back to his ho go home, gradually will be stepping back, right back to his home and there's going to be no helper for him
[Donald:] Yes
[Anna:] look what happened the communist just fell, fell on his face without a one shot
[Donald:] It's amazing that is Anna isn't it? It really is amazing, that was, what you said, how long ago was it those?
[Anna:] Two years and
[Donald:] No
[Mary:] No
[Donald:] with
[Mary:] the, the, Daniel was living, you know, you know better than I do how many years, how many centuries Daniel was living before Jesus' birth then?
[Donald:] He were, it was way before Jesus wasn't he?
[Anna:] Mm
[Mary:] That's it
[Donald:] Way before Jesus then
[Mary:] So it was, the prophecy was written then by Daniel for our, for our time and it just happened in our, because you know er, when he was er, when he finished the book write written and he said I have seen the, the, the erm visions and I've heard the voice, but I, and I've written down what I was told to do, but I do not understand and then the voice said to him well close that down, that book is not for you to understand, the generations that it's written for, it's written for the end of the times, they will come to understand it, and you see we actually witnessing what's happening
[Anna:] Yeah
[Mary:] the, what Daniel wrote there it's happening in our time
[Donald:] [cough] Yes, but when you, when you say it's the end of time it's, you get some people saying yes it's always the end, for some country it's always er collapses or what me have you, it's always then for some government or country
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] but now this is the end for worldwide isn't it?
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] Like, the old
[Mary:] listen this is the end for the er political system, you see the half of it is collapsed already the, the north king so you see what's happening in the, in the, er... south king [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] Oh yes
[Mary:] hmm
[Donald:] I mean erm, was it nineteen eighty seven? When the stockmarket flopped
[Mary:] Yeah
[Anna:] Yeah
[Donald:] and I did hear, somebody told me like that the reason erm house prices shot up, you went three times as a a as high in value in what a matter of moments
[Mary:] Yes
[Donald:] and somebody said it was because since the stockmarket flopped people drew out and put the money in building societies, building societies were bursting at the seams, didn't want to, and banks as well, didn't know what to do with all this money, so, somebody went in for a loan and asked for fifty thousand and come out with a hundred thousand, they couldn't get it out, give it to people, a lot, a lot of people that really er... weren't safe gambles
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] and now the er, they're not paying back, and the houses have come down and so what people are doing, or some people that have bought these houses, they're just giving the keys back and repossessing the house
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] cos if they decide to sell it now they couldn't
[Mary:] No
[Donald:] and that was that the, it's probably thirty thousand less in price
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] and he probably hadn't paid that much anyway so he has to go out the house
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] probably hadn't paid that much, so these peo the ones that lent the money out, in really they er, and they really have suffered just, they probably thought that if we don't lend them the money somebody else will and get the interest and they'll grow bigger and much overtake us, you know, to, to take over our business, so er, so the agreed that they've lent this money out, but it's bounced back you see, it's bouncing back on them, and this, everything's bouncing back on everybody now, but it seems
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] to be that way doesn't it? Everything seems to be failing. Erm, I remember years ago, well, well, say months ago, erm, one of the local estate agents were writing in one of the property news I think it was or the Advertiser, saying now is the time to buy, erm, whereas twelve months ago, now's the time to buy because they gonna start going up again, well since they've had that, that wrote in the paper, they've come down even more
[Mary:] Oh
[Donald:] so these local experts, you can't believe what they say... the only way really is to, the scriptures don't they say give us an accurate er description of what's
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] happening in our time... but, but and you think of what it says in Two Timothy with the
[Mary:] Mm, mm...
[Donald:] that's typical of our days isn't it?
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] Too typical, typical of us now.
[Mary:] Love is of money, love is of pleasure and love is of everything about God [LAUGHTER] in command, yeah []
[Anna:] Uses it
[Mary:] yeah...
[Anna:] chained up, such a beautiful, beautiful countries and just go to, to any, to any length to be destroyed.
[Donald:] Yes.
[Anna:] And you know this time when I went on a plane and I looked down, I wasn't saying it to Ben
[Mary:] No
[Anna:] and I said to my husband why people want to go paradise of heaven, I says look down, how beautiful, it is really beautiful all green is
[Donald:] Yes it is isn't it?
[Mary:] Yeah
[Anna:] then going over this sea blue and I was, so beautiful, you know Catholic used to say, when you di died in paradise, always want to go up the somewhere else paradise and it's in here and look what happened they ruin and ruin and ruin and so be
[Donald:] Well it's against the bible's prophecy isn't it?
[Anna:] Yeah, yeah
[Donald:] You know the way said have an I think that'll be to.
[Anna:] yeah...
[Mary:] Shame
[Donald:] When, when were you thinking if you went to going to Canaries, any time?...
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] There's plenty, a lot of money in
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] hundred dollar notes
[Anna:] Oh we were going
[Donald:] You, you, you
[Anna:] we were going to go Canaries but then we, just now we were looking at what, what did we, what was it
[Mary:] Jamaica
[Anna:] Jamaica
[Donald:] Oh yes
[Anna:] or erm, anyway I've got a friend help me to
[Mary:] Barbados Barbados
[Anna:] oh Barbados, but we have to seen if their teletext if they let us do, but I've just talked to Jamaican people and they said their, their friend he got some contact wanting some order, then later on this lady says no it's best thing to do go to
[Mary:] Air Tours
[Anna:] Air Tours, they said me it's no use going somebody you don't know, you maybe seen them through they might take your money and that's it.
[Donald:] Oh Jamaica you know [cough] it'll be cost dearer to get there won't it? But er I think erm the pound goes a lot further there, you'll probably fe but I'd probably feel like a millionaire in Jamaica
[Anna:] Mm
[Donald:] cos, it was like in the, the same with Poland wasn't it?
[Mary:] Mm
[Anna:] Yeah but I got by these people who've been to Jamaica, says that he gi if you give five pound tip for there, there what's erm they don't like it, it's not enough, they won't speak to you no more.
[Mary:] Five pound tip is not enough
[Anna:] I'm not going there
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] I won't, I won't give them a tip if that's the attitude
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Anna:] They said the best way to give them
[Donald:] Yeah...
[Anna:] No it's too cold in England, might go somewhere
[Donald:] Mind you, you say it's too cold, this last few years, you know we're not being, oh we had some snow last year didn't we?
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] But when I was younger
[Mary:] it's a lot a lot warmer now than it was, I remember when we came
[Donald:] Yeah
[Mary:] to England it was a terrible few winters I remember really hard ones
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] but now this last few years we, it's a lot warmer winter than we, than we remember at the beginning
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] so it shows that er, you know, the globe is warming up, even in Russia where I went, my mother, where I, where I was staying at er Dunyask, there was five metre snow sometimes in the, it, it came and it just blocked your windows, it blocked your doors and you were inside the house and you couldn't get out
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] unless somebody comes and gets you out and there's, there's nothing like it now
[Anna:] They have insist operation now
[Donald:] It's exciting though when you get deep snow [LAUGHTER] isn't it for a little while, yes []?
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] I suppose er
[Mary:] Yeah, but it freezes that quick that when it falls overnight and then by the morning it frozen so hard that you can walk on top of it
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] and not go through you know in a while you'll go through and not stay there
[Donald:] You'd freeze to death wouldn't you?
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER] Oh no you don't freeze when you're in the snow, you don't freeze because it's colder in the snow than it is, er it's, warmer in inside the
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] snow than it is on top.
[Donald:] Yes, yes that's right, it is, yes, it's true that. How's the, it's a nice change for me to come to Crewe on Thursday
[Mary:] Oh yes what brought you then?
[Donald:] Well this, a couple of things that er... took me there, erm... you know Dagfields Farm, I don't think, you know Dagfields Farm?
[Mary:] No I know I, you go to Boar's Head towards there, I know where that is yes
[Donald:] Yes, well... you know, as you come to the Boar's Head you can, it's on a crossroads isn't it?
[Mary:] Yes
[Donald:] Now, going from Thackley
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] up to the Boar's Head
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] go straight over the road, past, over the crossroads and straight over
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] you come to Dagfields Farm about a quarter of a mile up there
[Mary:] I see
[Donald:] and they do erm buy a sack of potatoes after that farm
[Mary:] On the way to Mountwich?
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] erm Mary can you get to Mountwich turning right?
[Mary:] You can
[Donald:] As well
[Mary:] you can
[Donald:] Yeah what
[Mary:] yeah
[Donald:] do you go straight over, coming from
[Mary:] yeah
[Donald:] say your, er, er, and erm... because there was no money in potatoes he, his sheds etcetera and his barns, he's converted them and he's letting them off as craft places
[Mary:] Mm, mm
[Donald:] and you've seen one of his craft places where I met this lady, she sort of works there or two days a week and
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] she serves teas and so erm, I could do with somebody seeing her
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] even though for the next little bit I'll be seeing her myself as well, but, somebody has to go, only an added incentive so, so isn't it?
[Mary:] Mm, mm
[Donald:] Er what's it say how glorious er what's it say about good news er, the feet, how come we are the feet of those who
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] er bring good news
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] mm have good things
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] and erm... I'll be, we knit jumpers as well there, cardigans and as pick them a cardigan I bought from Blacks in Newcastle
[Mary:] Mm, mm
[Donald:] this cardigan was sixty two pounds, but it's really nice, you know, and it's, I'm saying this you could make me one the same
[Mary:] Mm, mm
[Donald:] you know, but she, er I had to leave her my cardigan and she's gonna phone me when I go back
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] but erm... how going, I said I don't know...
[Mary:] Mm... how do you know er brother er what's his name er John
[Donald:] Brian Brian
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] erm...
[Mary:] and Pamela...
[Donald:] I got to know them, erm can you remember
[speaker002:] ...
[Mary:] He died, he was living in
[Donald:] oh you were thinking of Bert
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] Oh I used to know Bert
[Mary:] Hmm [LAUGHTER] that, that wasn't what you
[Donald:] it wasn't that it was another
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER] I don't know []
[Donald:] and er, what's it, fancy him mentioning and Bert
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] he was erm, he was cr he was a nice brother, wasn't he?
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] And his wife, what's his wife now her name, somebody in the bi bible named her, her
[speaker002:] ...
[Mary:] Oh I, I can't remember
[Donald:] Mm
[Mary:] can't remember her
[Donald:] but, but this, I'd like to know brother James from this other brother Taylor, and that's... he's always been er sort of s a strong wave sort of opinionated sort of person, cos he's changed all that, well I can tell by talking to him last week
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] he's changed a lot, you know, he isn't the same person, you know he's sort of more humble
[Mary:] Well he's a ministerial servant at last he was just sitting there and nothing you know for years since I've came into the truth, he was, he wasn't doing at all nothing and then lately... erm, because he did, he did have a business and then he had er some pigeons er racing pigeons and all he was all involved more in making money and er you know, and then gradually he's got rid of er, of the things that will actually er... took a lot of his time, so he spent a lot of time with his family and with in the so er with his ministerial servant. I, I am friendly with them you know I, I go every Wednesday there, for er, well when I can, [LAUGHTER] every Wednesday because something, something always creeps up [] on a Wednesday to keep away from them, er, sort of for tea and then with for the Thursday meeting like, you know
[Donald:] Did you see that
[Mary:] oh yes, after funeral you know my husband we went to erm, like the reception bury, you know
[Anna:] In his house
[Mary:] he offered the house for all the brothers to come in and they would laid out er sandwiches and the cakes and er quiche that you've made and er different, different things you know, we all went to back to their house.
[Donald:] It was all the rooms upstairs wasn't they?
[Mary:] Yeah, eh?
[Donald:] There was all the rooms upstairs, a big house wasn't it?
[Mary:] Oh you, he's got another one
[Donald:] Yes, yeah, he so he sold that house for
[Mary:] it's a, it's an old people's home now private
[Donald:] Is it?
[Mary:] old people's home, he sold that one on the way to Latent Park
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] Hospital, Latent Hospital
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] on er, on er, oh he sold that a long time ago, he's built a bungalow now they live
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] in a bungalow now, beautiful house
[Donald:] Is it?
[Mary:] Yeah, you haven't been in the new
[Donald:] No
[Mary:] bungalow then?
[Donald:] Oh before he built that bungalow
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] he went in, he bought a council house didn't he?
[Mary:] Yes
[Donald:] And, and that inside out.
[Mary:] Yes, yes he, that was his business to buy the houses run down and then re re renovating them and then selling them off again you know, but it was good when the houses weren't in prices up, but now when they go down is er, he's not doing very well just now, you know?
[Donald:] No he said he wasn't when we spoke to him
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] but that house, er at was it about a hundred thousand he sell that for?
[Mary:] One hundred and twenty thousand I think
[Donald:] Oh was they
[Mary:] and then about ten months later that house would of gone for three hundred thousand
[Donald:] Yes...
[Mary:] so he sold it in a wrong time he could have, he could have hold on to it another few months and got a lot of money for it
[Donald:] Mm
[Mary:] but it was er private people sort of somebody er, how you call those [LAUGHTER] they did first and then they, yeah and then they couldn't keep up er you know, keep up so
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] they sold it and somebody bought and er they made it into private er
[Donald:] the er three hundred thousand was it
[Mary:] Yes
[Donald:] Yeah
[Anna:] Yeah
[Mary:] they snapped it up at that price that his er sold and then they couldn't pay er when, when the time came, you know the everything went off, so they sold it and bought something else and they've made a lot of money on that so they've paid it off and have er a lot of money on the house
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] That's how people live these days, you know, my daughter did the same thing with her husband, you know, they're in a they had bought the house, erm in erm North Uphall, a big mansion like, you know, and er, he had the business in the, he built the business in the stables, there was like the stables so he renovated and got it, it out and renovated and made a business er engineering business, er, oh, hatch, like with the house and they only paid er seventy eight thousand when they bought it and then when they've sold it they've got about three hundred and eighty thousand for that... and he er, hire, hired now the, you know these units
[Donald:] Oh yes
[Mary:] he put his business, he, he hired the, a unit, bought a unit and put the business in the unit somewhere er away from the house and they bought a house for one hundred and eighty thousand and she says and I've got a lot of money in the bank now, so, she says I don't have to work, but the business they want to sell it, and nobody's buying
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] because of recession, but as soon as er anything will change he, he said Billy said that he wants to, to get rid of it because they want to go buy an now
[Donald:] What's the business? What commodities?
[Mary:] Engineering
[Donald:] Yeah
[Mary:] Yeah, pumps and seals and er different things, all, all kind of pumps, water erm water, gas, erm... petrol pumps every everything whatever you know, and they're making their own, it's not, they not just, he buys the rough er the, what yeah, and they make their own, he's got all the machinery and all, all the people they make their own pumps
[Donald:] Oh he's genned up then isn't he?
[Mary:] Oh yeah, yeah... so let's hope people get rid quick [LAUGHTER] knowing when and how [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] Oh, er, I don't know so much about knowing when and how so much, cos it... I mean who'd thought prices of houses would then go up as they did, you know, and there's er, I knew er a young women that was buying a house and these people said oh, oh it's, we're not just ready to move yet, we're not, and during this time Daisy said were rocketing up in price and she couldn't afford one after
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] she couldn't afford it and they still didn't sell, them people kept her waiting and waiting
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] you know, prices were moving, prices were moving up, she could afford at the beginning, what the price Daisy went up to, she couldn't afford, she's renting somewhere now
[Mary:] Mm I know when we've er sold the house, when our children all went and left us, the house was for three bedrooms, right, and I, I said to my husband I don't want to stay here because they built the school outside behind our er, erm back yard, and every, all the rubbish that kids throw threw over and I said to him I don't want to stay now kids, kids gone, children gone leave, left home, got married and went to off, I said I don't want to live here, I don't want to retire to, to stay at home and listen to the kids at school all day long and have the rubbish thrown over the hedge
[Donald:] [cough]
[Mary:] so we started to look for something and I wanted a bungalow, I didn't want to house again, just the two bedrooms I thought would be nice, so what we did we found this bu er this bungalow in er out of Crewe in Haslington and er we put up our house for sale, it cost seventeen thousand, five hundred and this bungalow we bought seventeen thousand, six hundred and fifty, so all I had to add was one hundred and sixty pounds, to sell the house, but the house needed change all the windows to put all the windows and the doors because they were all rotting in, you know, because the houses built er before the second world war... and er what we did we put up the and in three months' time, it in three months' time my house went and we were moved, in September we started to sell, in January we'd been living in the, in the new bungalow and then about three years later they built a row of bungalows on the other side where there should, should of been, they kept the land, it should of been shops, but then they changed their minds, they did, they didn't build the shops, but they built all these bungalows again on the other side, you've been to my home, yeah, so the road that, over the road these bungalows were about three years later than ours and they were going down for thirty two thousand pound, and I bought mine for [LAUGHTER] seventeen thousand [] seven sixty at six fifty, yeah
[Donald:] I'm quite surprised this about Jane
[Mary:] Eh?
[Donald:] er, I'm surprised this about Jane
[Mary:] Oh Jane, yeah... well she's been, she's been suffering with that back a long, long time
[Donald:] What with her back?
[Mary:] Yeah... why, why are you surprised? What did, what have you
[Donald:] Well... they do not attending...
[Mary:] meeting?... She supposed to be one of the, of the remnant... and I, I can't understand myself that, because she was baptised together, the same time as I was
[Donald:] Yeah...
[Mary:] but er, I dunno... do you know Jane from your youth?
[Donald:] Yes erm, erm... I think I knew her from about six years ago when I
[Mary:] oh
[Donald:] there up her house a time or to where she used to work
[Mary:] Mm, mm
[Donald:] open up the one, open up the one at erm... Bridgemere
[Mary:] Bridgemere yeah
[Donald:] and I've been up the one before that
[Mary:] Yes, yes... well we can't talk you see, we don't know, we don't know what's happening, but she's been suffering a lot with her back just now and she put that off... you know that because she's not attending the meetings, she can't sit, and if she comes to the meetings she can't sit down, she stands up, props herself against the wall and stand up right at the back... so, we don't know you see
[Anna:] How old is?...
[Mary:] She's er about forty int she?
[Donald:] I think so, yeah
[Mary:] She's not, she's not old
[Donald:] If if thought
[Mary:] she, she was baptised at the same time as I was, you know, er, the same day, Manchester assembly, that was nineteen seventy four... seventy five... no, seventy four, yeah
[Anna:] How many do, do...
[Donald:] You're not, you, I, what I was gonna say is, are you interested in a caravan at Rudyard? Bought it, I don't know one for sale now, you know, but for the price they are and for the rent it's very reasonable. The one I'm in, I get paid four hundred pound for it
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] and the rent, when I, I'm going back six years now, the rent to leave it there for twelve months was only seventy pound a year
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] so that was an extraordinary low price, it's gone up now, two hundred and fifty four
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] but that's only three pound a week and it's beautiful there?
[Mary:] Where is that?
[Donald:] Rudyard
[Anna:] Rudyard beautiful Leeke, outside Leeke, I used to wait that most er
[Mary:] Yeah, but there's no sea or anything
[Anna:] Yeah, a lake
[Donald:] No it's there's a lake
[Mary:] A lake
[Anna:] a lake
[Donald:] that's six miles all the way down
[Mary:] Oh
[Donald:] erm... and the beauty of it is, it only takes, from here it only takes half an hour to get there
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] you know... there's Rigid Lake hotel there, it's quite a nice place, where you can have a meal
[Mary:] Mm, mm
[Donald:] erm, you can have a lovely meal for three pound six
[Mary:] Well we were going to buy er a caravan when my wa er just, just before my husband died we were sort of looking for a caravan, we had gone and paid a deposit, we should have picked it up on a Saturday and he go, he died on a Friday, so I had to cancel and er only this week er I told you didn't I, that they paid my deposit back because it was genuine tragedy, I, I didn't sort of er made it up that I, you know, sometimes you've paid a deposit and then you've changed your mind
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] you lose your deposit
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] but this time it was a genuine tragedy so he paid me all deposit I put in, he paid me all back, you know, I don I didn't want I don't want to go caravanning by myself
[Donald:] Mm
[Mary:] it was he that choose it, it was he that wanted it and you see it's just worked out that he didn't use it.
[Donald:] And there's, you know, there's no motorways near Rudyard, there's no... well there's a main road, there's only a couple really and the, the air is a lot better because there's lots of trees there and er, it's, you know, if you ever feel bad... I go there and I feel different within hours, you know, because the air's so much better.
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] Do you know erm... I think he was in Crewe at one time
[Mary:] oh Harold
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] Harold
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] Yes
[Donald:] You know Harold?
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] cos he got married didn't he, er
[Mary:] I know he our surprise
[Donald:] Yeah
[Mary:] our surprise why, why, people in his age want to get married?...
[Donald:] Well... companionship
[Anna:] How old was?
[Mary:] He was in his eighties, he's ninety or something
[Donald:] Eighty four
[Mary:] Eighty four
[Donald:] when he got married
[Mary:] Yeah...
[Donald:] but I, I er
[Mary:] he he, he married quite quickly after he lost his other, his wife didn't he?
[Donald:] Yeah
[Mary:] Quick. It's only way you can get over erm tragedy I should say when he married quick because he got another compan for the life he locks himself inside er walls, you never even
[Anna:] But I don't want to forget him, it's not you forget it save your own life, you see er Irene one Wales, er she's Greek, she's only a young woman, she lost her husband I think two years ago and she's already, cos you needs, delicate and people, people keep on thinking that you, you, you don't want nobody then, you land in a mental home or stroke or, or something
[Mary:] You're alright, you, you've been for fifteen years
[Anna:] And where have I landed, I've landed in convent... I left home
[Mary:] I got I got you, I won't land in a convent [LAUGHTER] for []
[Anna:] you've got me like convent like a nun and see
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER]
[Anna:] somebody else called me mum
[Mary:] That's nice
[Anna:] Oh dear look
[Mary:] and er, and had there been Catholic nun
[Anna:] [yawning] Oh dear []...
[Mary:] it's still painful, it's only what, what's today, eleventh?
[Donald:] Well the
[Mary:] Eighteenth another week, it's already been three mo three months, so it's still fresh isn't it?...
[Anna:] [sniff] Can't forget that can you?
[Mary:] Well to me it's still not real, sometimes I think oh I'm just here and I'll go home and I'll see him and then when you get there it's just four walls that's when it hits you
[Anna:] When it hits most
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] Most hate me night, when I've been out and somebody said you have evening, go and see somebody in evening and then I go, don't mind in day time come back
[Anna:] Mm
[Mary:] but if I come back in night time I have to put that light on and it's empty
[Donald:] Yeah, yeah
[Mary:] that's my fear coming, that's what makes me run away from her, I was so scared... it seems to be either come like, what you call?
[Donald:] What?
[Mary:] Frightened of er, like you got, going in a high place, or when you fear Yeah, yeah
[Anna:] when I put light on
[Donald:] You see it's like being chopped in two innit? It's tedious isn't it, er, you know
[Mary:] Mm, yes it is
[Donald:] I mean er
[Mary:] you know er what in the bible says and er to get together for God put a woman and a man together and they become one flesh... you read it, you think you understand what it is, but you don't really understand until you lose your partner
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] and then you become to understand that, that half of you just disappeared, the way I feel I felt like it's just a shell left and all the inside just gone out and I've
[Anna:] Mm
[Mary:] lost something and I can't, I can't find it and I'm looking and I'm, and ee, and er, a bit of a noise or anything I'm looking backwards is coming and then I realize he's not there any more to come... and then other days I just feel like I'm dangling in the air and can see the, the ground and I can't touch it with my feet, just somewhere right, right out, it's not real, not real you know and then you go, you get back to with a bump and know that it's real and then it just feels left, nothing else, you can't help yourself in any other way.
[Donald:] No you've done very well to survive as well you have had a now, haven't you?
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] you know and
[Mary:] I have
[Donald:] mind you the scriptures say they don't definite your sting... and, can you explain that?
[Mary:] Er what?
[Donald:] It says in here erm
[Mary:] I know where does your sting
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] Ah that's after when you, when Jehovah was going to destroy it the death, yes?
[Donald:] Yeah destroy death, in other words there'll be no more dying
[Mary:] That's right yeah the, the
[Donald:] Yeah so when you
[Mary:] the, man is the question where is he, where is your sting? Because it's going to finish one of those days it's going to be
[Donald:] This few then like you have now like won't be there will it?
[Mary:] Yeah.
[Donald:] But just think what about you see, what about the people that haven't got the hope that you have?
[Mary:] This is what I was thinking, what would I have, how would I feel now if I didn't have the truth
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] I'd be a real loss
[Donald:] Yes
[Mary:] you know I can understand now the people that haven't got the truth, when one of the, the mate, when the mate dies whether a woman or a, or a, or a husband dies, they want to die, they don't want to live because I felt that, I felt that, what's there, what's there me left to live, my kids they're, they have their own families, there all time, they have no time, I brought up three children, I have a full time job and I have time for every one of them to look after and to bring them up and to set them on their way to live and not one of them became a prisoner or something, you know, they're all have nice jobs and, and nice kid nice people, one, nobody's in the truth the boys but now they're all set up and I'm left alone and the children, three of them, haven't got time to look after me... to give me what I, what I need and especially one in the truth, that one is less getting in touch with me than the ones that told me the truth, boys ring me, twice, three times a week, Julia rings every, every night, but Ted rings twice or three times a week, three times I could go, the one the truth should be er help for me now, give me, give me a support or something and from her I could go about two weeks not hearing at all, no phone call, nothing.
[Donald:] I don't think they realize do they, and, and she probably thinks oh her mum's down the street, she knows she's gonna come back, you know, she's alright, she's alright and doesn't mat
[Mary:] Yeah, but
[Barry:] No one is allowed to go to sleep during this talk
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Barry:] simply because we want you to stay awake, physically and this will help you spiritually. But staying awake sometimes is very, very difficult to do isn't it? You'd recognize this if you are a driver and especially a driver who maybe has the opportunity of travelling long distance, now years ago when I was younger and perhaps some of you in the audience when you were younger, you could go from here to the South of England with no trouble, without a break and you'd head on down the motorway and you, you'd be alert and alive and er ready to meet up with all sorts of emergencies and you'd drive quite well all the way down, non stop down the South of England, but if you're like me now, when I get to Stafford on the motorway [LAUGHTER] you're beginning to feel as if you've had enough and it's difficult to try and keep your concentration as you used to years ago, and that's how it can be in the truth sometimes, when we've been with it a long time... that, we grow older... not only physically, but spiritually too we become very experienced in the truth and we become very sort of fat spiritually, we can live off of that fat can't we? And er we can get by on lots of things and when an emergency does come, sometimes we can cope with it if it's not too big a one, but other times it can catch up with us, simply because we are only sort of half awake... so the purpose of the talk today is to try and help us all to see various ways in which we can stay awake in the truth physic er, er spiritually speaking. We say don't we that, that the new ones that come along and then they really say to the truth, they're alive aren't they? They are spiritually awake and they sometimes put us to shame because they seem to make strides so fast that we have a job to keep up with them, they want to do this, they want to do that, they get baptized they want to auxiliary pioneer and before you know where the, where you are they're in the regular pioneer ranks, and that's lovely to see isn't it? But as we said earlier that some of us who have been in the truth for a long time we were like that years ago, but somewhere along the line we've become drowsy and a little sort of halfhearted and maybe dozing a little bit as we go down that sort of motorway er of spirituality and that, that the longer you go it can become more difficult because other things come along don't they? Like physical ailments and er our, our, our physical body doesn't work like it used to, and as you do get older there is a tendency to more to, to need more rest, we can't do what the young ones er do, and we would love to do that and that goes along with what the council and the doesn't it? It, do it now while you're young, while you've got your strength, because there will come days when you look around and you think well I just wish I could do that again, and that's the way we're made, and that's the way it will always be in this system of things, but there's lots of little things that we, you and I, can work on to help us to stay spiritually alert, vigilant and awake. Now in the scriptures, we're gonna have a look at a few because the scriptures counsel us time and again, er that we are living in difficult times, we know that and it can become difficult to stay spiritually alert and awake and that's why constantly throughout the scriptures you'll find that we're er counselled and encouraged to stay awake, stay awake and as we sang stand firm and, and grow mighty spirits, the first one is in Romans chapter thirteen.... Most of the scriptures we'll be looking at today is very familiar with us... we know them and some of them we may be able to recite without even looking at the words, but er, if we can try and get you to think a little bit about them, then we've achieved something, if we can get you to think that, you know, well am I dozing or am I really awake as I should be, then we'll achieve more, in verse eleven it speaks there about er, you people knowing the season, well what people are we talking about? Us isn't it? It's within the congregation, Paulo was writing, not to those outside but to those dedicated baptized brothers and sisters in the trees, said [reading] you know the season that it is already the hour for you to awake [] so he was speaking to spiritual people, spiritually minded people and yet here he is telling them to be awake, awake from sleep or slumbers, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became the leavers, and that's true with us all if you came into the truth yesterday, the time that much nearer now isn't it? Because you can never go back to yesterday, if you came in last year or five years ago, ten years ago or longer, some of you have been in the truth for many, many years... and it is nearer now than it ever was when you first came along and joined Jehovah's people and as it says [reading] the night is well along [] and if any of us have ever worked on the night shift, I think we're all well aware aren't we that when the night is well along and you're coming near to the end of your shift... you're not waking up because it's getting near morning whereas everybody else is, you're finding it much more difficult to carry on because you've gone through the whole night working, the night is well along and it becomes increasingly more difficult to stay awake so physically, spiritually, whatever way you look at it, it is certainly very difficult to stay awake in the truth today, but it isn't that difficult and it isn't er a hurdle that none of us can overcome, Jehovah says that his load is light, Jesus echoed that didn't he and it is true that if we do Jehovah's... will, Jehovah's way, then it will be made light for us, he will help us to stay awake, but he's not going to allow us to slumber and drift off into obscurity, but it all comes back in hinges upon us and that's why the counsel is in verse thirteen [reading] as a day, as in a day time look, let us walk decently [] so we have to do something don't we? Walking means exercise, walking means effort, you and I have to do something to keep ourselves spiritually awake, going back to our illustration again about the car driver on the motorway, you find yourself after so many miles just dozing off because the road is so straight, not much traffic around, not much to think about apart from the countryside that goes by and you're there foot on the accelerator, no braking, no gear changing, nothing at all and you get to the point where you're driving one-handed by the thing, that's the time when you get so relaxed isn't it? That you can easily lose your concentration and go off to sleep... and so it is in the truth, so we need to stay awake, stand firm for almighty, be vigilant and again in the scriptures we could look up half a dozen scriptures in the Christian Greek scriptures to show that we need to keep spiritually awake and it uses different terminology... you've heard me use some already, remember the one in verse Peter four, verse seven? It tells us there to be vigilant, vigilant with a view to prayers, isn't that staying awake? Anyone who's vigilant knows what's going on and they're aware of what's happening, so again it, it shows that we must do something as they said on that motorway, the thing to do when you feel yourself going into drow drowsiness is, is stop the car perhaps, get out and have a walk round, do something, I know I, er in the past when I've felt myself going off to sleep in those situations, I've been pinching myself and, and really making yourself do something rather than just sitting there doing nothing, cos that's the way we just go off and get lowered into sleep and our lives are involved in this, we've read and heard about people that have gone to sleep on motorways haven't they? Where have they finished up? Crashing the car, taking someone else's life with them, terrible situations, terrible tragedies can come about because a person physically goes to sleep... so it can be in a spiritual sense that we can nod off to sleep and not only our lives are involved, but our fellow brothers' and sisters' too, especially if we have a, a responsible position within the congregation, because if we nod off, those of us who are elders, than others lives can be... terrifically involved can't they? Because we are not doing what we should be doing, we'll hear a little bit more about that later, another one in Matthew twenty six and verse forty one, keep on the watch and pray continually, notice our New Year's text is all about prayer isn't it? Rejoice in the hope I had, that's lovely isn't it? Thinking about the, the, the hope ahead but what have we got to do? We've got to persevere in prayer, which means effort doesn't it? So in everything that we do and staying spiritually awake, we have to do something, it all comes back to you and I at the end of the day, no one else can do it for us... we sometimes think well, well, so and so can help, I mean this is true to a degree, but at the end of the day it all comes back to us doesn't it? We're the ones that have said to Jehovah I am dedicating my life to you, I am going to do this, do that and the other and it's up to us as to whether we do it, so it requires effort, first, five, six, also says [reading] let us stay awake, keep our senses [] first Peter, five, eight [reading] keep your senses, be watchful [] and then first Corinthians, ten, twelve which I think the song was based on [reading] let him think that he is standing, beware, beware, beware that he does not fall [], if you think things are going along nicely and you're in a comfortable little corner, a little niche in the truth, and it's just how you like it, and it's just the way you want it to be and there's the time we need to be aware because there's an opening for Satan to get into to make us fall. Now going back into the Hebrew scriptures, you'll find there that this sort of staying awake counsel, an idea was there long before the days of Jesus and the Apostles and people's lives were involved in its state, even in those days, let's just let us have a look at one, Isaiah forty two... eighteen to twenty... now this terms it slightly different, but when you look at it and analyze it, you realize he's talking about exactly the same thing, it's regarding the nation of Israel who turned away from Jehovah, they weren't doing what they should be doing, or should've been doing as he's pleading with them look there, that look here, here you deaf ones, well we know the nation of Israel weren't all physically deaf, they were like we are, perhaps had a few deaf individuals amongst them, but generally speaking the nation had good ears, they knew what was what and they listened quite well, hear you deaf ones he's describing them and look forth to see you blind once... verse twenty it was a case of seeing many things, but you did not cheat watching and Daniel, verse twenty five, look it says there a little phrase near, half way through that he took no note, the nation took no note of what was happening at that time, but we know what happened to them, many of them, thousands, a million of them lost their lives didn't they? Because they were overthrown and the others were taken off into captivity into battle life, and what a life they had, the one of slavery, so at that time because they took no note, because they were destiny instructions to Jehovah for his word and again want to see, they had eyes, but they just didn't want to see it... they knew, all the whys and wherefores and what the responsibilities were, but they didn't measure up to them and because of that many of them lost their lives, and if they didn't they were taken into captivity, Jeremiah four, in verse twenty two, again another prophecy sent to them exactly over the same message, the same reasons... describes to them as being a, er people that is foolish and of me they have taken no notice Jeremiah four and verse twenty two. In Noah's day, if you go back to Noah's day it was exactly the same now, isn't that what Jesus said justice in the days of Noah, so it will be in there somewhere, they were eating and drinking and marrying and doing all the things that you, you know, you and I do today isn't it? And what is it, they took no note and the flood came and swept them all away. So it's been no different dying through time, the counsel has been there because Jehovah knows that we're all of falling flesh aren't we? We're all prone to do that, were all prone to take the line of least resistance and you find this not just in the truth but in any sort of community in life, in any area of life that wish to go, you, you may find this at work or at school, you youngsters, there's always a little Johnny at the back isn't it, that, that will fit in the back row and think if I'm back here teacher won't notice you see, were act were actually tuck himself up in the corner and er think well if I'm, if I'm up here nobody will notice me and see the day goes by and er we don't have so much to do, those are the type of people that in, in, in a physical life er sort of going to sleep aren't they, they don't want to accept responsibility and we, we find even in the truth, you'll always find it in congregations like we have here in our congregation, we're not different, we're all the same aren't we, we're all flesh and we're all imperfect and we're all prone to doing or wanting to do the things that are different or [LAUGHTER] you know than, than what Jehovah wants us to do and we all want to tuck ourselves up a little corner sometimes and yet we shouldn't be like that and this is what the scriptures tell us and warn us about to put ourselves headlong into the truth, be whole sole, be awake, be alert, be vigilant to the things that are going on and there's a lot going on in the truth at this particular time, things are changing, the scriptures tell us that the scene of the world is changing and that's true isn't it? It changes so fast and here's we have a job to keep up with it. Did you know Jehovah's organizations always changes, not with it, but to combat it... that way it comes to work, it keeps us alive, it keeps us on our toes, and so we could go on and on in saying well look keep away, stay awake and do everything that we should and, and we can stand here for the rest of the talk saying well do it, do it, do it [LAUGHTER] but that's easy for me to do that isn't it? To tell you what to do... but it's also knowing how to do it, because sometimes especially if we knew in the truth, we don't always know what to do and if we're very young you see, we're, it's, it's one thing being told isn't it? But another thing to be shown how to do it and that's what, really what we want to try and do for the rest of the talk is to not just keep preaching at you and telling you what to do, but to show you how, so that's the purpose of the talk from now on, now in this outline there are, I've got about fourteen different points here and it'll highlight ways in which we can er stay awake, what I'm going to do is to read straight through them and then we'll go back and pick a couple out, because it's impossible to concentrate on the entire er amount, so we'll do that, it's er a number of things we can do to keep virtually awake [reading] keep up with the food at the proper time from Jehovah's organizations [] that's studying and things like that isn't it? They come up to meetings which erm, this goes on to say [reading] determine not to miss a single spiritual meal [] both private study, meeting attendance are urgent for all, there's nothing new here brothers it's all things that we've heard before and this is why sometimes we can sort of nod off because we, we sort of think well I've heard all this before, [reading] follow theocratic ways, procedures and policies [] not always easy to do, but it can be done, [reading] recognizing the organization that Jehovah is using... keep awake by finding your place in God's arrangement [] that isn't that little corner up there, by the way, we're not talking about that one, but finding our place where we can work for Jehovah wholeheartedly... [reading] do not quibble about assignments and arrangements [] I think we're all guilty of that at some time aren't we? [reading] Perform well whatever assignments you have, trust God's angels to remove and replace where necessary [] when things aren't being done in a congregation as you think that they might be or should be done, or you might think well the, why don't the elders do something about this, we'll leave it, leave it to Jehovah and the angels, if there's anything wrong, they'll sort it out and they'll make the elves sort it out as well, they have ways and means, again coming back to this new text here [reading] persistence in prayer shows you are awake the spirituals [] so there's another way Jesus was outstanding in its constantly regarding prayers [reading] keep awake by field ministry [] and here's a rare one in any public talk [reading] financial contributions [] financial, we don't hear that very often in public talks, we, we always say that there's, er people come to the meetings, there's no collection, no mention of money, the seats are free, you're free to come and go and er there is a contribution that's held at the back, but here in, in the talk it's highlighting their various ways, this is one of them that we can keep spiritually awake is by being aware of the need for financial contributions, Jehovah has done much for us through his organization and we can show love for him by full support with our time and finances and then another one look [reading] stay awake by showing love to you and act loyal [] sometimes it's easier to show love to some in the congregation than others, we naturally have an affinity for one another and certain types of personalities seemed to gel with others don't they? And it's easier to get along with brother so and so and sister so and so, but for goodness me I find, I find it ever so difficult to talk to sister so and so and there's an area perhaps that we can er think about, [reading] stay awake by being respectful and obedient [] and that's something that is very important because it's completely opposite in the world today, respect for all authority and obedience to it is absolutely gone by the ways I find [reading] refrain from criticism and careless talk []... so there are the main points, but as we say we can't go into them all, well, so what we're going to do is to try and just highlight one or two little areas which we could er enlarge on or put the magnifying glass on, so shall we do that? We mentioned about determining not to miss a single spiritual meal, Matthew chapter five and verse three well known to us all I think... it's in those as some people call them... sermon on the chapter five of Matthew, [reading] happier those conscious of the spiritual needs since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them [] and we're encouraged to do that aren't we? What does it mean to be conscious of our spiritual need? Well if you have the footnote bible like I've got here, you look down the bottom and speaks about those who are beggars, beggars for the spirit and just at the bottom of our road where we live er there's a little area there which quite busy and er there's a man who parades up and down there daily, he's there nonstop every day of the week, you can go by there any time, any day and he's there begging and he has no shame at all, and if you refuse him once he'll catch you another day and he'll ask you again, and you'll see him there backwards and forwards and he'll even... when the traffic lights turn red [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Barry:] and the cars stop, he'll even go over to one of the cars and if they've got their window open and just er say can you give me, have you got ten P for me? I, I need it to help me to get to Hanley or something like that and, and he does this all the time, and I look at him and I think well you know fancy being like that, surely we're in a welfare state, there's no need for that, I don't know what his circumstances are, he may be homeless, I don't know where he comes from and he just appears there and he carries on as if he loves the job, and that's only in this country, but if you go abroad, many of you have been abroad haven't you? And they go even further than that don't they? People do all sorts to their bodies don't they? To, to make people feel sorry for them and they have no shame at all in breaking limbs and distorting their features and all so that kind to make themselves look as pitiful as they possible can because they're going to live a life of a beggar and they tell us it's very profitable being a beggar in some lands, people can make in this country they reckon up to in places like London a hundred pounds a day being a beggar [LAUGHTER] that's more than you earn a day isn't it? Most of you... simply because they have no shame, now bringing it round to a spiritual thing, how can we show that we, where it describes there beggars for the spirit, it really means having no shame whatsoever in the truth, never hold back in demanding really, what your requirements are in the way of spiritual things and a good mirror to this is analyze yourself and ask yourself what am I like, am I really a beggar in spirit, what am I like when the magazines come? And maybe you have er a nice announcement every time there's a delivery and the brother who's giving the announcements on a Tuesday or a Thursday, whenever they meet, he, he says that we have new magazines tonight brothers and he may hold them up and said you know, that they're this and that and lovely, beautiful magazines Jehovah doing so well now through his organization and he's presenting us with, with erm marvellous erm appealing literature, he holds them up and says we're, we're, we're able to get your magazines tonight and er we would like you to get them straight out at me, and they're still there two or three weeks later, your magazines, this is a way we can stay spiritually awake, is by going and getting them straight away, not for the benefit of the brothers, poor old brother who is on the job and he's wondering why, are they gonna come and fetch my magazines or not, but because we need to devour that spiritual feeling, we need to keep up to date with everything that Jehovah's providing us with. Really if we, if we're not on top of these things, then what we're saying is that Jehovah is like saying to a high squad who lays out a beautiful meal for us and saying well there you are, it's yours for the taking and you saying well I don't feel like that today... I'll just have some chips down the road.... These are little signs and areas that show up as to whether or not we're really conscious of our spiritual need, alright you go and get them, you say alright I'll go and get them, as soon as they come on there, the first one there, but what do you do with them when you get them home? Do they go in a cupboard somewhere and stay there until the day comes when you're in the ministry and you think oh those new magazines I'd better get them, because we're going to that's no good at all, we need to read them and digest them and know what's in them, simply to show not only that we're conscious of our spiritual need, but to encourage others to become conscious of their spiritual needs, so can you see what we said earlier about our lives being involved in other people's too? Not just elders and brothers in the congregation is it? It's us and people out there, there is still people out there sighing and crying and groaning under the detestable things that are going on in this world, I've no doubt you've met many, but, when they say I don't know what the world's coming to, well if you know what's in your magazines and then your literature... and the reasoning book, all these lovely provisions, because you've devoured it, you've eaten it like that scroll that John was given, it was sweet to him wasn't it? And it's sweet to others as well who want to receive it, but it's also bitter to those who don't, but what a wonderful provision that is from Jehovah, so are we conscious of our spiritual needs, no question we could just ask in passing, you notice the kingdom ministry is changed? Did you notice that?
[speaker002:] Mm
[Barry:] Some of you are nodding, if you're thinking what is he talking about, what does he mean, then I'd advise you to go and have a look, because you might be dozing off spiritually if you're not aware of what's happening in kingdom ministry at this moment in time. We also mentioned... don't quibble about assignments and arrangements, now in Romans chapter twelve, which this text is taken from, if you just go to the previous verses, this is from verse twelve isn't it? Erm... Romans verse... and verse four... you notice this text is taken from verse twelve, rejoice in the hope and then persevering prayer, but if you go into verse four, what it's speaking about there, but just as we have in one body many, members, but the members do not all have the same function and then in six to eight he goes on to describe that we all have gifts don't we differing according to the undeserved kindness given to us, whether er so forth and so faith, ministry, erm teaching, exhorting, all these different gifts, though sometimes if a particular brother or sister doesn't have a particular gift and we think well you know that's a bit hard going I can't seem to listen to them, that's an area perhaps where we could erm be quivering couldn't we, or complaining, especially about assignments, you might get speakers that come here from other congregations, and some are better than others aren't they? And you think when, when you get one that's not as good, you think well why do they... why is it that that speaker can't give such a good talk, why is he giving a talk? Well should we quibble about that, not as individuals should we? The elders in the congregation will take careful note of what's happening in the circuit with regards to these figures and the standard of er talks and so forth and the standard of teaching, well it's not for us to quibble about it is it? And what about those assignments you see that erm, we get from the theocratic ministry school overseer, you've all had them haven't we? And we look at the slip and we think oh yeah, and you go home and you look it up, I can't give this, I'd be highly embarrassed to give this, whatever has he given me this one for? And so you go back and you say to your brother I just cannot give this, it's impossible you see, well should we be like that? I'm sure very, very few brothers ever do that, sometimes if a mistake is made you might get an assignment like that, which is dealing with er maybe er marital problems or, or certain areas er with, within that sphere, where it's given to youngsters then, then that would be wrong wouldn't it? Er sometimes that has been known and it would be right to, for a youngster to sort of through their mother and father to take it back and say well look er can we have another one, but that would only be on a rare occasion, but if we're given an assignment in the congregation then, especially in a shouldn't we use, try every effort to try and carry it off, perhaps that's one that Jehovah's looked at and said well there's an area that they need to learn about, that need to understand a little more, they know nothing about that particular area, in the scriptures, now that's a good one for them to have, we'll make sure they get that, that way they're going to learn, so if ever we always get the easy ones, the ones we know, the ones we've done before, we think I can handle this, you never learn anything do we? So isn't it good for us rather than quibbling, rather than criticizing, and recognizing that we've all got different abilities and perhaps if you hadn't got one of those abilities there, the, the body that it speaks about, you see every part plays a part doesn't it on our physical body and so we are in accommodation, we all have a part to play, and that's the way we, we grow you see and we mature and we become better, able, equipped to go out and tell others, gives us confidence as well if we know what we're talking about, that way we can learn, so never quibble about assignments and arrangements, never criticize brothers and sisters in the congregation. If you've got something to say about anybody, make sure it's good, there's nothing wrong with gossip as long as it's healthy innit? Rather than degrading, why not upgrade brothers and sisters for a change. Perform well whatever assignments you have, have you noticed the Watchtower that were studying today, we've all got it with you I think, just turn to page twenty six... turn to page twenty two, you'll see what it's about, it's about a brother Roy, who has always advocated... sticking close to Jehovah's organization, guide to organization, give you a life story, and it's quite interesting reading, and again it's a test of your alertness, your vigilance, whether or not your spirits be awake or not, is this the first time you've seen that article? [LAUGHTER] If it is then you need to think carefully about what we're talking about today, and I hope everyone here has read it already cos that shows your spirit alone. Under the heading on page twenty six the service, look... you've applied to be a and he also applied to be a servant at the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses in New York in battle, and then nineteen thirty five he was invited to go along to and er he went in an old car a model A Ford, there's a model T Ford on that one another one he had during his work and he says straight away look I was put to work splitting wood, do you see that in the, paragraph on the right hand side, the next day I was told to report to the dairy barns to help milk cows, then he worked in the garden, he also took care of the bees, harvested honey for the family, then in nineteen fifty three I was transferred to the cheese making farm, now here's a spiritual brother thinking he's going into the battle to do all sorts of spiritual things, and yet these were his assignments, there's a lesson here for you and I. Down the bottom there in, number page twenty six it speaks about another modest man who became a role model for me who's name's John now a member of the governing body of Jehovah Witnesses and he's been quoted over the years as saying it's not so much where you serve, but who you serve that is truly important, can you see that? And then you've got him on the right hand side look making cheese, this is brother again, that's not brother. In nineteen eighty three from nineteen fifty three after thirty years of making cheese, they changed his job, I think many of you are ahead of me already, he said I was given a job change and I began working in landscaping, how nice... while being interviewed some time ago I was asked what I thought about being giving a job change after thirty years of making cheese and he said well it didn't bother me, I noted, frankly because I didn't like making cheese anyway
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Barry:] so can you see the point of that brothers? If we're given an assignment, whatever it is, perform it well, don't think that I would make a better magazine servant than that brother over there and I don't like it on the accounts, why do they always use me as a hall servant? Why am I always given the responsibility of looking after the microphones, I've done this for years... well think about this brother here, he made cheese for years and he didn't like the job one bit, now isn't that strange, do you know why? Because he had the right attitude, he didn't quibble, he didn't moan... he didn't criticize, he just got on with the job, and isn't that a little area that we can all work on somewhere, it comes down to that little bit of territory even, doesn't it, if we're given in the ministry and we say oh not there again, I worked that last time, I know that person in that house they're all working, called on them and when they, I just don't get, I just don't get on with them, they're not me at all, you see, we, we can go on and on in... all kinds of areas can't we in the truth, but what an attitude to have and I thought this was a lovely expression here, look, erm, on page twenty seven, just about a third of the way down on the right hand side, he says [reading] as I have opportunity, I encourage new ones at that, that would take advantage of all privileged service, they're given, and to learn to be content, and happy with it [] and just in the next paragraph at the end he says [reading] be happy and content in your present circumstances and blossom in a spiritual way in the soil where you are planted [] isn't that a lo a lovely expression, doesn't that show a man who is spiritually alive and alert and awake, and isn't that how we should be, wouldn't the congregation flow and move along forward, so much better and more unitedly if we all have that lovely attitude that Jehovah service, no matter what it is, we can't all be public speakers, we can't all be giving a public talk at the district assembly can we? It's only one that can do it at a time... we all have a role to play, we're all part of that body aren't we that we've looked at in some, what a lovely description it is, and some of us don't look quite as good as the other part do we? And er some of us seemed to be more awkward than others, I mean some people's feet when you look at them and, and areas like that, that, you think well why did Jehovah make them like that, they're so ugly [LAUGHTER] and yet without them where would we be? And isn't that how the congregation is? Some of us seemed to be awkward and the truth, new and the truth, inexperienced, others seemed to be so polished don't they? And they're, they could cope with any situation, but isn't that a little part we all have to play? That's how Jehovah wants things isn't it? And that's how his whole organization worldwide is moving ahead, that's why awake, Jehovah's organization is moving and Christendom's lagging behind, in fact they're, they're falling apart aren't they? Because they are spiritually deaf... the brother... Rutherford I think it was years ago described then as dumb dog, what does that You think to yourself now what am I giving, what am I giving in the contribution box now as compared to one, two, three, four, five, years ago, it may be the same and it may be as much as you can afford, well if that's so, then that's grand isn't it? It's like the widows might, but when you think of the way
[Donald:] We're plugged in
[Anna:] Oh we're plugged in [LAUGHTER] right
[Donald:] Oh dear
[Anna:] It's when I, when I went to Poland it's not two or three years, it was nineteen seventy three and I was, I was just coming in into the church and the one Witness was with me and we were going in er big town like Cracow, you know, we were going one way and there was a couple coming erm to meet us like you know in, in, in, on the road, and he was just wearing erm jeans and no shirt, but erm a big, big wooden cross on his chest just reaching really across his chest a wooden cross and then erm a safety pin in his nose and three safety pins attached to [LAUGHTER] one another through his ears [] and this Witness with me walking down, she says just look at this couple and the girl was, wore the same dress she, she had the top on, you know, but again all sort of queer looking and she, this Witness with me, with me so, she said just look at [LAUGHTER] the two [] that's er coming aga to meet us and I said yes and I looked and I said look at the cross and she says yes, it used to be, they used to hang the criminals on the crosses and now the crosses hang on the criminals [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] isn't that lovely [], and now the cross is er all the criminals instead of the cross [], oh yes...
[Donald:] Oh very good. So erm...
[Anna:] [sigh]
[Donald:] I was just gonna say,some sometimes, I haven't been for a bit mind you, oh, well the last time I went, sometimes I go to Wales to Blaenau Ffestiniog or to congregation
[Mary:] Mm
[Donald:] have to leave about half past six in the morning
[Mary:] Mm, mm
[Donald:] that's where, I went with our two you know and Yvonne, erm and Yvonne's daughters the last time I went and this is how I and Yvonne come to know each
[Anna:] Oh is that how it was?
[Donald:] at a meeting
[Anna:] Oh I see so it was you that got them together [LAUGHTER] oh
[Donald:] It's, it's a beautiful run you know
[Anna:] Oh yes
[Donald:] it's a lovely run
[Anna:] I know, I know that kind, I know that road do you know where we went me and my husband always, Porthmadog
[Donald:] Oh yes yes I've been there lots of times.
[Anna:] he used to tell, we used to camp there
[Donald:] I have I've
[Anna:] I've got a steel tent with er two bedrooms and everything and I, I'm thinking of getting rid of it because Mary said she doesn't like going camping
[Donald:] Oh well I've, I've got a tent, two bedrooms
[Anna:] Yeah
[Donald:] Yeah, but I like camping
[Mary:] Yeah we used to love camping, yeah
[Donald:] Oh often in the summer in Dartfield and myself and one or two others go, you know
[Mary:] Yeah
[Donald:] so er, next time you go, you can put your, you, you can come with us
[Anna:] In same tents?
[Mary:] [LAUGHTER] Oh no you can sleep in the same tent I've got my tent you can sleep with me [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER] poor sod, you go and sleep with them []
[Anna:] Even with his dinner ready with
[Mary:] no I love camping, we've been camping for about oh more than thirty years
[Donald:] Yes, how nice
[Mary:] we used to have a boat as well and then when er, when his erm mind er, well brain self started, you know he had that Alzheimer's disease
[Donald:] Oh
[Mary:] he couldn't manage to think and I've never learnt how to manage to, that erm, the engine, so we got rid of the boat and then our son he's got a big boat, he's got a real speedboat, a real big one and Julian he's got a smaller speedboat, so both of the boys go there, when we go camping we always have a good time because it's all a family affair like, you know, always get together and erm go on, on a boat, fishing, having fresh mackerels come back and clean them up and fry them straight fresh from the sea, never tasted as fresh, fresh as, fresher fish than, than
[Donald:] You, you know that paper I showed you the, the reason... that we're making these recordings, it says so er words, so the normal words go on the state about and so they'll know, they'll know what the language was, why, in the nineteen nineties
[speaker007:] Yeah
[Donald:] erm... how long this system will go on for, well in order to be able to refer back to the nineteen nineties, who knows we might, neither of us might be here
[speaker007:] Oh
[Donald:] still we want this, we want this, they've made a request to have this done and it's government funded and so it's quite an interesting project really just to record things
[speaker007:] Oh
[Donald:] and erm
[speaker007:] What you'll find, you'll find in here that it'll just be picking up the budgies mainly.
[Donald:] Oh
[speaker007:] If you, if you listen back to that tape now all you'll hear is them twittering away
[Donald:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] Listening to the budgies I'll just turn backwards and see
[speaker007:] That's all the language you'll get, it's just the budgies [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] Let me just er... switch off That's right, the tape's continuing now from where it was before.
[speaker007:] Mhm
[speaker002:] Hello
[Donald:] Hello Nicola it's nice to see you again
[speaker002:] Alright, I thought that was your bike, was it your bike?
[Donald:] Yes, yes
[speaker002:] I thought you had a car
[Donald:] I have, but it's on the road now you know
[speaker002:] Ah
[Donald:] and that's doing me a bit of good that bike is
[speaker002:] I'll soon chase you [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] getting er a bit of weight off me as well
[speaker002:] Do you want a drink?
[Donald:] I've just had one just a little while back
[speaker002:] Have you?
[Donald:] just as I've left home, very kind of you I've just
[speaker002:] I've been up the road ages waiting in the shop, talking and having a little chat and
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] give him a little walk
[speaker007:] Can you just do something with those budgies?
[speaker002:] Er do you want them took off?
[speaker007:] Quieten them
[speaker002:] Shut up
[speaker007:] down a bit, they're a bit noisy aren't they?
[Donald:] They're alright
[speaker007:] If I take them on the table they won't make so much noise then
[Donald:] Alright
[speaker007:] it's cos they're high up out of danger
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] if they're out of danger they talk more you see?
[Donald:] oh yes
[speaker007:] if I bring them back down to the floor level they'll shut up
[Donald:] [LAUGHTER] put them back exactly watch them []
[speaker007:] If, if, if you see, yours down here
[Donald:] I understand
[speaker007:] cos they're out of danger you see
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] they know they can say what they want up there and get away with it
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] so if I bring them down on the floor, you know that if they say maybe naughty
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] [LAUGHTER] you can tell them off and then this, they don't, they don't so many things then
[Donald:] Oh that's very good
[speaker007:] they're quite, they aren't as daft as they look, you know
[Donald:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] there's some brain in them, there must be, they're programmed in some way aren't they?
[Donald:] Yes, oh is this
[speaker007:] What, what is
[Donald:] is this time
[speaker007:] of a, a sort of er, a programme don't they like, er built in them
[Donald:] Yes, I think there is isn't there with budgies
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] Well all animals have got
[speaker007:] it's all dated in isn't it?
[Donald:] Yes, that's marvellous that
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] We're just, we're just trying to shut the budgies up
[speaker002:] Mark is that your right milk?
[speaker007:] Yeah, that'll do thanks that...
[Donald:] and we've got Jack
[speaker002:] I got you one of them pies
[speaker007:] You've got me one of them pies yeah
[speaker002:] erm chicken and mushrooms in
[speaker007:] yeah, yeah, that'll do, yeah
[speaker002:] chicken and mushroom
[speaker007:] see like, now they've gone a bit quieter now, have you noticed?
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] You've just gone a lot quieter
[Donald:] What, what do you think, do you think you ought to say a few words to Jack? Er, didn't er on his best behaviour or carry on as we are?
[speaker002:] You're welcome to it
[Donald:] Jack's the dog by the way
[speaker007:] Well Jack er won't say much now, he'll shut up once he gets used to you
[Donald:] Oh, so
[speaker007:] He does, he's gone a bit quieter now, it's this, you've probably surprised him, he didn't expect you to be here
[Donald:] Oh right, so
[speaker007:] so
[Donald:] you've got some questions you wanted to ask me? Mark that's the end I said Mark and Mark's
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] mum just came in
[speaker007:] Mm I, I I you're supposed to, I thought you're supposed to remain anonymous
[Donald:] Oh, on there it says so
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] doesn't it, right
[speaker007:] Oh it's only first names anyway
[Donald:] Yeah, there must be a million Marks about
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] especially in Germany [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] [LAUGHTER] Well the question related to Matthew chapter eight, verses twelve
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] where it says [reading] where as the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside, this is where the luck we thing the lashing of the teeth will be [] see, which sons of the kingdom is that referring to? It can't be referring to the ones [reading] the sons of the kingdom that are inheriting it [] is it?
[Donald:] No, no
[speaker007:] So which sons of the kingdom is he talking about?
[Donald:] That's a good question, erm, what, what, scripture is it Mark?
[speaker007:] Erm, Matthew chapter eight, verses twelve...
[Donald:] Let's have a look what's er surrounding er verses say
[speaker007:] Mm it's after the army officer, the army officer is asking him to treat his manservants for some
[Donald:] yes
[speaker007:] and then I hear him back, he says that he's got great faith to believe... the truth, know the truth, mhm, mm
[Donald:] Oh, I can see you're getting me baffled this morning
[speaker007:] Mhm... it must be talking erm some other kingdom, that's all I can suggest, maybe
[Donald:] Erm... it says here [reading] whereas [] I'll read from eleven shall I?
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] [reading] Many from eastern parts and western parts will come and decline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens [] and erm as regards to these ones, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob erm, at the kingdom of the heavens, while these ones were born before Jesus weren't they?
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] So we know from previous studies that these ones when they die haven't gone to heaven
[speaker007:] Not initially no
[Donald:] No
[speaker007:] they must of done
[Donald:] so, so so, yes, so they will, so the kingdom of heaven of the heavens it mentions well, thy kingdom come on earth doesn't it on
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] so, bearing that in mind let's see what it says at verse twelve [reading] whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness [] well there will be some of the sons of the kingdom thrown into the darkness outside, because this, this proved futile, they, they haven't er... lived in faith have they? Some of them gone away from the kitchen
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] er [reading] refrained outside, where, there is where they're weeping and []
[speaker007:] Er another scripture here to suggest whether this, this is on the same sort of er apart from that's it, chapter thirteen and Luke
[Donald:] Hold on just a sec
[speaker007:] chapter thirteen... have you got the volume too high there?
[Donald:] I think perhaps I have haven't I?
[speaker007:] Mm you've got the volume too high, yeah, you won't get, you'll get your feedback, that means you've got the volume too high, where's the volume?
[Donald:] Yeah it's on eight now, shall I put it on
[speaker007:] Oh you've got it miles too high, yeah you've got it miles too high, that's why you're getting feedback, turn it right down, right down to about number two or three or something like that
[Donald:] Oh we won't be able to hear
[speaker007:] Well you don't want to hear what you
[Donald:] Yeah read some of that then eh?
[speaker007:] you don't want to hear too much of what you're recording anyway do you?...
[Donald:] Erm
[speaker007:] Yeah this is in Luke chapter thirteen...
[Donald:] Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Luke... Luke thirteen yes
[speaker007:] and probably if you go from about twenty five or somewhere round there, you'll get the context of it
[Donald:] Yeah, twenty five says [reading] when once the householder has got up and locked the door and you start to stand outside and knock at the door saying sir open to us, but in answer he will say to you, I do not know where you are from, then you will start saying we ate and drank in front of you and we've taught in our broad ways, but he will speak and say to you, I do not know where you are from, get away from me you are workers of unrighteousness []
[speaker007:] Mm, this one now [reading] there is, where you'll []
[Donald:] [reading] there is where your whipping and the gnashing of your teeth will be when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God []
[speaker007:] [reading] in the kingdom of God [], but your half of it's thrown outside
[Donald:] Yes, but you'll also be going outside, yes
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] erm
[speaker007:] that mentions Abraham, Isaac and Jacob there again doesn't it?
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] I'm just wondering if there that's related to that scripture that I've just showed you
[Donald:] Oh yes
[speaker007:] It seems to be on the same lines don't it?
[Donald:] Yes, because Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were all witnesses of Jes Jesus' ministry on the earth weren't they?
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] And erm, they recorded different things, but Mat but also they recorded the same things as well
[speaker007:] Mm, see the relation is also the sons of the kingdom will be the ones where the gnashing of the teeth er, er will be
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] outside the kingdom then
[Donald:] yes, yes, that's why it tells us in verse twenty four of Luke thirteen... [reading] ex exert yourself vigorously to get in through the narrow door
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] because many I tell you will seek to get in, but will not be able []
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] So
[speaker007:] going back to the, the other chapter
[Donald:] See we, if I can just say Mark now, you and I know this truth,pe pe people in the world generally don't know what you and I know do they? That's why the of the kingdom must go from door to door, from city to city from village to village, they don't know about it, but once we do know about it then we're sort of accountable aren't we?
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] That's right, yes
[speaker007:] responsible, yeah
[Donald:] we don't want to be like these ones that erm... got to know and it, and er that have done away, it says erm that's where the gnashing and at the tooth will be thrown outside
[speaker007:] You see this one in chapter, page of Matthew, and verse twelve as I mentioned, I was just wondering if some, if that's got something to do with the faith of the army officers or something like, cos
[Donald:] Oh yes I think erm
[speaker007:] whether it's related to that particular thing
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] you know
[Donald:] well it, well it would be, but it's a set pattern for us as we are today
[speaker007:] Mm...
[Donald:] Yes... the army officers, shall we just read a bit more of that bit?
[speaker007:] Mm a bit further back probably
[Donald:] Yeah, just to get the picture of it
[speaker007:] Mm, cos it's got in relation to that ain't it? Somehow or other
[Donald:] Yes, that's
[speaker007:] it's sort of in relation to it, there must of been some reason why he said that to take them to, hear more to other people
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] must of had a bearing on him saying that
[Donald:] Oh yes, I think the story is that, Matthew heard this voice, shall we just read from there?
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] Because then Jesus said to him, who was he talking to, let's, let's start off on the verse one [reading] after er after he had come down from the mountains, great crowds followed him [] that's Jesus isn't it?
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] [reading] and with a leprous man came over and began doing a to him saying, Lord if you just want to you can make me clean, and so stretching out his hand he touched him saying, I want to be made clean and immediately his leprosy was, vanished away, then Jesus said to him, see that you tell no one, but go and show yourself to the priest and offer the gift that Moses appointed for the purpose of a witness to them... when he entered into Calpurnia that's the other two, that the other isn't it?
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] [reading] When he entered into Calpurnia an army officer came to him and tricking him and saying, sir, my manservant is laid up in the house with paralysis being terribly tormented, he said to him when I get there I will cure her... in reply the army officer said sir, I am not a fit man for you to enter under my roof, but just say the word and my manservant will be healed []
[speaker007:] That's the old faith int it?
[Donald:] Exactly, Jesus was saying to this officer that I'll cure your master when I get there
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] but what, but what marvellous faith he must of had
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] Yes, you say they were they
[speaker007:] Mm, yeah
[Donald:] hadn't got to be there and he could be cured
[speaker007:] Mm, yeah
[Donald:] that's right Mark, yes
[speaker007:] He had the faith that's the main thing int it?
[Donald:] Yes... er it goes on to say, erm... [reading] for I too am a man placed under authority, having soldiers under me [] see Jesus was a man of authority the other officer was saying the same
[speaker007:] Mm, the bribery, yeah
[Donald:] Mm, that's right, and [reading] I say to this one be on your way and he's on his way and to another come and he comes and to my slave dither and he does it. Hearing that Jesus became amazed and said to those following him, I tell you the truth but no one in Israel have I faced to a greater face [] so that's quite some statement that Jesus has made
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] now we don't learn a lot about, we don't know much about this army officer except what we've just read, and even though the, we, we know of quite a few people in the bible, he says in Israel there's no one with greater faith than this army officer, so he's quite some man isn't he?
[speaker007:] Mm...
[Donald:] Yes... very good
[speaker007:] but we haven't erm... gone to, to explain why he's mentioned that particular point in chapter twelve
[Donald:] Erm in
[speaker007:] In what relation is that, you know tie in to that particular great faith that he had
[Donald:] I, I'll go on reading then from eleven shall I? [reading] But I tell you that many from eastern parts and western parts would come and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the kingdom of the heavens, whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into darkness... outside, that, there is where the weaken and the nation of the two []
[speaker007:] so what's that got to do with that particular that
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] faith which he had?
[Donald:] Yeah, well
[speaker007:] There must of been some particular reason why, why, why he mentioned that, which maybe might be difficult to try and realize
[Donald:] Yes I can see your point Mark I see
[speaker007:] you know in other words it might take a bit of time to work it out, there is some reason why he must of said that mustn't didn't he?
[Donald:] Yes why did he go on to speak about this
[speaker007:] Mm, in other words why did, why did he continue in chapter eleven go on about there will be many in eastern parts will come and required at the table or in other words in the kingdom
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] there must of been some relation problem with each other, the earlier... erm thing
[Donald:] When it's asked, when it says I tell you mainly from the eastern parts and western parts, well we're from the western parts aren't we?
[speaker007:] Mm, mm
[Donald:] In other words it's, it's sticking from east to west, people will know of all the thing, it's er tell you that many from eastern parts and western parts were called and reclined at the table, in other words this, well this good news that Jesus was sticking on this
[speaker007:] Ah, I think I know why he mentioned that then
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] because that required faith at the same sort as the army officer had
[Donald:] Yes and the
[speaker007:] and the ones that had been cast out would be without that thing, so that's why it's gone in relation to that it's because those that didn't have the faith that the army officer had would be cast out as the sons, of the sons of the kingdom, that's why he mentioned it in likeness
[Donald:] The, the type
[speaker007:] there
[Donald:] of faith
[speaker007:] That's right, you
[Donald:] but
[speaker007:] needed that same type of faith as he had, that's why he said that er, those without that faith would be cast into darkness
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] that's why he said related to it somehow
[Donald:] Yes not that you've all had that same faith as the other officer had
[speaker007:] Mm, cos there, that chapter thirteen
[Donald:] but not to that degree degree, yeah
[speaker007:] Mm, it carries on of the same account there then he said to the army officer you see
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] [reading] go just as it has been your faith
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] so let it come to pass for you and the manservant were yield [] so that particular was all about faith, so
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] those without the faith in the certain sons of the kingdom will be cast out
[Donald:] Yes, now that kingdom is, is in the Lord's prayer as we mentioned is gone into the air and
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] and everybody will have an opportunity of learning about that kingdom
[speaker007:] Mm, you see at the end of the day one has to work out if this is gonna be an earthly er point towards the kingdom, that's the different between... this faith and any other faith isn't it? Any other faith doesn't believe there's gonna be an earth left does, do they? They be
[Donald:] Has a, yes
[speaker007:] they believe it's all going to be in a story don't they? Basically
[Donald:] Yes a lot of people will read that yes
[speaker007:] but you see unless the day was cut short no flesh would be saved anyway, so it proves in Matthew that there is gonna be some flesh left
[Donald:] Yes, that's right
[speaker007:] and as we've learnt in first Corinthians chapter fifteen that all different animals have different sorts of flesh, we've got different flesh than, than different animals haven't we
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] than than dogs and fish have got different flesh
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] so that the new flesh that we require will be a different sort of flesh than we've got now probably in the new order or whatever it is, you know, we might require a different sort of flesh mightn't we?
[Donald:] Well if we
[speaker007:] Which is more, but let's face it at the moment wears out as it grows older doesn't it?
[Donald:] Aye, do you know why that is don't you?
[speaker007:] Cos it's, cos of the sin obviously
[Donald:] The sin of element passed
[speaker007:] that been broken yeah
[Donald:] passed down towards us, that's right
[speaker007:] Yeah
[Donald:] but, and this kingdom takes over, Jesus was a ransom sacrifice, he brought, bought people back, that's, those that have faith, so in the new, when this new system comes round, when the king comes round the earth we'll start to grow young again, and then that way we'll have a sort of a different flesh won't we?
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] When we grow young again
[speaker007:] Mhm... it'll be, you see, you are, if you, I think if you believe in, in God which is the main point of the thing, then you can believe who's capable of anything
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] I mean, you've got to bear in mind that God created the, the heavens and, and the earth and any human that's er in God's memory who's is deceased out the way, if you've got enough faith, you can believe that you can bring anything back
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] if you've got the faith, if you believe in God in other words, you've got the faith
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] you've got to believe in God first before you can get the faith
[Donald:] Exactly
[speaker007:] you know what I mean
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] so if you do believe then well, then you can believe that anything's possible
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] with God
[Donald:] Well you've only got to go back to what we've been discussing and Jesus
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] when he was on the earth, he cured that
[speaker007:] didn't he?
[Donald:] Mhm
[speaker007:] For somebody to doubt there will be urge of people on in paradise, it's doubting God's power isn't it?
[Donald:] Exactly
[speaker007:] Mm, so people that just believe that you're going to heaven haven't quite got the faith to believe that there'll be people on earth as well
[Donald:] Exactly, yes
[speaker007:] well anything's possible with God cos he created everything, if he's created the stars and the moon and, and the heavens, then [LAUGHTER] he can [] create whatever he wants to
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] it's up to him isn't it in a way
[Donald:] Yes, that's right
[speaker007:] that ultimate thing
[Donald:] Yes indeed, being as he's a God as well
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] he's only got erm, well I mean provisions and store for those whose artist complete towards them
[speaker007:] Mm, and that, and that, at the end of the day I suppose there has to be a point for the kingdom... and it wasn't easy to get into that because all the, the, the accounts are all about how big a struggle it is, to get into the kingdom
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] which proves that it wouldn't be easy to get in there anyway, so
[Donald:] No
[speaker007:] it isn't granted automatically, it's something that has to be worked out because it's not easy to get there it's a narrow gate
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] so did the automatic thing which proves that it takes a bit of time and patience before you've achieved this
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] it isn't like an immortal soul which is sort of given automatically
[Donald:] That's right, yeah
[speaker007:] you have to have faith don't you?
[Donald:] Yes... yes... mm and with all the different about God that they are on the earth today
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] which are literally thousands of them
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] they contradict each other, they fight each other, they kill each other
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] all in the name of God, and the very thing that God has said don't do
[speaker007:] mm
[Donald:] [clears throat] So if, religion really is the biggest conflict that's ever been devised
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] to, to, there's people plenty serving God, well actually they're serving the devil
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] Mm, and a lot of er the religions believe in things that er aren't true like Santa Claus
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] and things like that, that is a lie
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] it's not truth is it?
[Donald:] It isn't
[speaker007:] So a lot of, a lot of them tell like fairy tales, a lot of people tell fairy tales for young, at young children, it's all aimed at young children when they're not old enough to understand what's truth and what isn't [LAUGHTER] they're not [] old, they're not in their own understanding yet when they're children so they sort of, not in their conscious sense anyway
[Donald:] What
[speaker007:] but you
[Donald:] what did the Catholic policeman say, give me a boy until he's seven and I'll give you the man
[speaker007:] Mhm... it's all, it's all... you see at the end of the day it'll be the ones that, that are in charge of erm got to get the worse judgement, because they are more responsible
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] got to be the ones that are in charge, in other words the ones that have been mislead, God might overlook because they didn't know that they were probably being mislead
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] you see what I mean?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] In other words they weren't in the explained
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] because says to him, but we're not blind also are we? And then he replied that well just because you think you're not blind, then you must be
[Donald:] Mm
[speaker007:] [LAUGHTER] you know [] like it's reversed [LAUGHTER] they thought they, they, the words, so they must of been if that's how it is
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] just when you, you, you think you're not lying you probably are
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] and when you think you are, you're probably not
[Donald:] Yes [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] [LAUGHTER] it's like
[Donald:] So
[speaker007:] a two way thing, you know
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] one after the
[Donald:] but it, if everybody has the opportunities listening to the good news of the kingdom, in the, in the old world [clears throat] well then people have a chance, that means a, everybody's having a chance doesn't it?
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] If you mention like, if people don't hear this how will they, well it says in Romans doesn't it? Romans, just have a look at Romans, ten... Romans chapter ten
[speaker002:] Excuse me Mark
[speaker007:] Mm a bit later, yeah
[speaker002:] Yes, alright, sorry for interrupting you
[speaker007:] No it's alright, keep talking
[Donald:] Yeah it says, Romans ten, verse thirteen, [reading] for every everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah, will be saved, however, how will they call on him if in him they'd not put faith, how in turn will they put faith in him, if him they've not heard, how in turn will they hear without someone to preach, how in turn will they preach unless they've been sent forth [], just as it is written, [reading] how come we are at the feet of those who declare good news of good things [] well that's more or less what we were saying isn't it?
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] People have, have got to have this opportunity to listen to the good news erm
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] if, if they refuse, well that's, that's a choice they have isn't it?
[speaker007:] Mm, see one of the dangers of just reading the bible is that you have to be careful you don't fall into the pitfall of just reading it... when if you do then it'll all look as if it's pointing towards the only way out is heaven
[Donald:] Yes and you've got the time
[speaker007:] because all the scriptures in the first gospel are all pushing in how to get to that place
[Donald:] That's right, cos these first ones, sorry for interrupting Mark, go on
[speaker007:] Mm, yeah, the, all the scriptures from then on even are all pointed out to achieve this heavenly thing
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] but er at the end of the day there has to be a purpose for it... so unless you, you, you put it into action, then you, if you just read, then you're in danger of having a bigger judgment than somebody that was ignorant
[Donald:] Mm
[speaker007:] you know of not knowing, so that the responsibility becomes higher the more you learn
[Donald:] Yes, more have came to me that's right
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] and erm... in erm, speaking about it however and in mentioning about the scriptures which referring about them
[speaker007:] Mm, most of them do don't they? Most of the scriptures are all out, out to achieve that because they had to acha achieve perfection at the end of the day didn't they?
[Donald:] But, what, which ones are going to heaven? Everybody?
[speaker007:] Well, the scriptures really mention how a man drives for the kingdom of God, so mainly it's the man, I don't know whether women go to the, the heavenly ground, it doesn't actually mention that does it anywhere?
[Donald:] Well the amended ones
[speaker007:] Mm, are they men or, or are they known to all women?
[Donald:] Both aren't they?
[speaker007:] I don't know er sort of
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] question that I meant to, meant to ask, which I don't know whether there are women there, cos mainly the scriptures mentioned about, it's the man that's got the lead isn't it?
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] You very rarely talk about women going to heaven
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] do they?
[Donald:] Well, it, the reason, you know the reason why some are going to heaven, when you think of a kingdom
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] and you think of our country here in England
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] you've got, there's the queen she's the head of the country
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] and she, to help her to run the country she's got a parliament
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] now in heaven, Jesus is the king and Jesus will, will have a certain number with him in heaven to rule over the earth, a with him
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] and these ones will be made up, er faithful ones from, taken from Jesus' they'll be made up of faithful ones, that er will, will have to die, they'll have to shove their flesh with to go to heaven to be part of this kingdom, but for the rest of mankind which are obedient, which do accept er the truth, they will live in paradise on the earth.
[speaker007:] Mm, you see, a lot of the er the English scriptures talk about the, the paradise in, in its right context, you can just examine the, the, the Christian script which you might get confused because there's a lot of er things that can take them both ways
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] like for instance chapter ten of John, verse sixteen which talks about other sheep which are not of this fold, you, you might think that er that's talking about, what er, the logical sense of that scripture is that the dividing line with sheep... and you get different sort of folds don't you?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] So at that time that could of been taken into the context of, or one anyway, going to the same place
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] which only in future years that er, it's added up to er significant point
[Donald:] That's right and then er, those ones, those sheep which you've just mentioned er are a myth
[speaker007:] oh... mm cos one thing really gave the key away was in the, the sermon on the mount where Jesus said that the meek ought, ought to inherit the earth
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] which proves that er, that it's a separate class
[Donald:] For those who are going to heaven
[speaker007:] well, mm this is the point at the end of the day to prove the truth, you've gotta prove in your mind that there is gonna be a separate sort of clasp between the what, there, there is a scripture, I think
[speaker002:] Come on
[speaker007:] it's in first Corinthians, it talks about for, I think I'm in a vision of the third heaven, which was actually a vision, it wasn't a reality it's like a revelation was a vision, I don't think it was the reality of heaven was it? It was vision
[Donald:] I can't comment without just looking [LAUGHTER] at it Mark er I'm afraid []
[speaker007:] [LAUGHTER] No there was a vision and I think the, the Apostle had was of the third heaven
[Donald:] Yes, yes you may be right, but I'm, I'm just about erm in the dark a bit
[speaker007:] the third heaven I thought it I think, I've, I've looked in the re the aid book, what does the third heaven, it was er... it was more of a, a dream, more of a sym symbolic dream... more than natural reality of vision of heaven do you know what I mean?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] You see a lot of the er, a lot of the vision that they had
[Donald:] Something typifying
[speaker007:] Mm, the visions that they had were not as reality they were only like visions they had
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] they weren't actually real heaven or real there's basic weren't the
[Donald:] Oh yes, yes
[speaker007:] colourful visions
[Donald:] oh lots of visions were, were had by
[speaker007:] Mm, see that's that's the difference which have to click in your mind
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] that even in, in, in the revelation, the very beginning chapters to of had one to about chapter seven were very easy to understand, once you understand what they're saying, because they're all letters to each congregation at that time weren't they?
[Donald:] Yes they were, yes
[speaker007:] They, they were er, the, the to the congregation of, of wherever send this letter and John has to send these letters, but the letters were the spirits talking
[Donald:] That's right yes
[speaker007:] they're all the spirits talking to them
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] giving them information
[Donald:] Yes, that's right
[speaker007:] that's basically the sort of revelation isn't it?
[Donald:] That's right, yes
[speaker007:] And the angel whose congregation the let letters were sent to
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] one logical thing is... that erm, if erm letters were sent to er, to angels, which I don't know whether that the judges believe that, then you wouldn't actually need to send the literal letters to, er angels [LAUGHTER] who, it because [] they'd be far advanced in, in whatever they've got
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] so you know the, these one thing you'll have to work out in a logical side of revelation
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] in other words if you read it without any experience you might start thinking that it's giving you a vision of the real heaven [LAUGHTER] where [] as it's just symbolic
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] it's all symbolism, and this is one of the things you have to work out, to, to find out whether there is er
[Donald:] You know, can I just ask you something? Talk about angels you know, these are heavenly erm spirits aren't they?
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] Erm, now can you remember in the book of Genesis where it says sons of the true God?... Er they took on flesh and the you
[speaker007:] Oh the ones that were disobedient?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] Yeah, yeah
[Donald:] an angels that turn bad, just like a lot of mankind turn bad... er they put on flesh then for the purpose of marrying the goodlooking daughters of men
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] now, do you know anything, about these fal these fallen angels have they died? Or are they still about today? Or what? What do you know about them?
[speaker007:] Mm, well obviously they've been casting bonds... and tell judgment
[Donald:] Can, well, can they influence us today?
[speaker007:] The de if they're demons, yeah they can yeah
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] they do exist
[Donald:] Then, then the demons are these proper angels at one time
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] weren't they? Fallen
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] angels
[speaker007:] Er to, to work the truth out of things, one has to think what Adam, Adam had lost in the beginning, what Jesus had to gain back, cos according to the Corinthian's letter that erm Jesus came back to buy back what Adam had lost and if you can work out what Adam had lost in the, in the first place, then you can see the point why you're put on the earth and you can see that it, that he, he was given a commandment not to take off the, the tree of kno knowledge written by weren't he?
[Donald:] That's right
[speaker007:] If he can work out that er, what would of happened if he probably wouldn't of taken that...
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] and what was taken away when, when he did break the rule, then you can work out what Jesus brought back
[Donald:] Yes, that's right then you can work that out
[speaker007:] which was God's spirit in some way
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] what, he must of lost God's spirit mustn't he Adam?
[Donald:] Oh yes
[speaker007:] On his way
[Donald:] yes, to a large degree
[speaker007:] mm
[Donald:] that spirit
[speaker007:] and that's
[Donald:] he broke, he broke the ageing process on the human race
[speaker007:] Mm, cos that's what Jesus came to buy back God's spirit
[Donald:] That's it, because he was a perfect man Jesus
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] not, not like erm... any descendants that would go on from Adam [clears throat] were born imperfect weren't they?
[speaker007:] Mm, it's alright I've just seen a, a woman er passing a three wheeler on the pavement here, wheel chair and she was doing quite a bit of a speed, I was just gonna get my, my [LAUGHTER] my speed checker [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker007:] know of her, see if she was speeding on the pavement [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] [LAUGHTER]... Well getting back to these fallen angels in what way must try and lead mankind today?...
[speaker007:] One of the big ways is, is spiritualism and things that are not real, things that are sort of er blind in the mind of the unbeliever as it were, in other words material things probably and things that have under revelation... according towards the under revelation he talks about how these, these dumb idols and these pieces of gold have got nothing in them and that'd be way in which the, the ones would be caught out, because of these gold or whatever have got nothing in them you see.
[Donald:] What, what about Ouija boards?
[speaker007:] Well this is another method isn't it? Er
[Donald:] [cough]
[speaker007:] of tricking people into believing sort of things that aren't true, which they're saying that er they're talking to deceased people like people said they talked to er Elvis Presley [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] has been er one woman that claims to continuously talk to him from where he, where he, where he is, where, you know
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] so obviously she's assuming that she's talking to Elvis, but er, she can't prove it
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] obviously beyond that, that sort of thing can't prove anyway, but she's claiming to, to talk to this particular singer, whatever, you know.
[Donald:] Lots, lots of people claim, in fact ever such a lot of people claim that they've got communication with the dead, for instance that, as you know I've got a caravan ain't I at Rudyard Lake?
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] And there's a lady there, and er, got a caravan and her husband had died and she wanted me to swap caravans, her's was actually a better condition caravan than mine
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] where it, she said it was too big for her and er she wanted something smaller, with a swap, well I didn't swap for the reason mine was overlooking the lake, it was in a better position, and er, then she told me the reason she wanted to swap cos er, she said it was too big cos her husband had died, I started to speak to her about when God's kingdom comes on the earth, these dead ones will come back, these loved ones
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] oh he's already with me now she says
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] he's already with me
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] and she, she was absolutely sure, and there's lots of people that
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] say things like that
[speaker007:] Mm, well actually when, when somebody passes away lots of people say that when they pass away they've received their spirit
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] that's came to them
[Donald:] Yes, so what act, so do you know Mark what it is that makes these people think those things?
[speaker007:] Well there must be another force that makes them see them things mustn't there?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] Er, it isn't actually controlled by them
[Donald:] No
[speaker007:] it is actually some other thing
[Donald:] and
[speaker007:] you know
[Donald:] and this other force is the fallen angels, the demons, if they, they can have, oh this women used to say oh he's with me, he, he's in bed with me at night
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] so these demons, these fallen angels have got, you see, you've got to serve them and, and those of the bible, but once you're dead, you go to the grave you see and that's it, you're not conscious of anything at all it says
[speaker007:] Mm, what, the
[Donald:] but, but these things
[speaker007:] You've got to bear in mind though that, that, that the scriptures which you can use in the Hebrew context were before the resurrection was possible, so you had to be careful that er, that you don't bounce because when Jesus came to the earth he changed that though didn't he?... He, he made possible for, for a resurrection
[Donald:] Oh that's right
[speaker007:] you know what I mean?
[Donald:] Yes, but only for a, for a, for a, a few isn't it?
[speaker007:] Well obviously
[Donald:] Relatively few and compared those that are going in the end going to another year
[speaker007:] Well the scriptures do say that, that er there are those that'll be lost
[Donald:] Yes well in
[speaker007:] so there's gotta be some hope for those that have, have gone lost or whatever hasn't there?
[Donald:] Erm... in the past?
[speaker007:] Mm, no, well... there isn't much hope for those that rejected Jesus in his time
[Donald:] No I'm
[speaker007:] cos he mentioned that those were liable further to start him as a because he was actually there at the present, if they, if they couldn't believe that when he was around then they've got a big problem [LAUGHTER] haven't they []?
[Donald:] That's right yes, if they coul God's son on the earth during these and if they couldn't accept him then
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] then they're not gonna accept him any time are they?
[speaker007:] That's right so they, they weren't liable anyway
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] a complete destruction
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] like er according to the, the, the scripture, the son of destruction which, I don't know whether it points towards Judas Iscariot of being one of the, the sons of destruction.
[Donald:] Yeah, I think what you meaning before like, before Jesus' time, in that's the description isn't it?
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] And it says the conscious that they will die
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] but as for the dead they have conscious of nothing at all
[speaker007:] Mm, you've got to bear in mind that it is actually erm... it isn't something you can take for granted, it is something that is a given thing and that er, it can be taken away, that's the main thing, but
[Donald:] This knowledge that be true
[speaker007:] but mm
[Donald:] you can lose it but you can't guess
[speaker007:] Can't guess, yeah that's true
[Donald:] That's right, so as we mentioned it exert yourselves vigorously
[speaker007:] Mm, in other words it isn't an automatic immortal soul that you've got
[Donald:] No
[speaker007:] it's still taken it, it's something that's external
[Donald:] n naturally yes, that's er, that's er kitchen of maturity isn't it?
[speaker007:] Because you see
[Donald:] I mean the soul, what is the soul?
[speaker007:] the soul is the whole inside into us mainly
[Donald:] The man himself
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] you couldn't actually have separate parts
[Donald:] No, that's right, it's no shadowy thing that leaves, leaves er body there
[speaker007:] Besides
[Donald:] does it? Soul is the man
[speaker007:] the only thing that makes you conscious of what's going on is your brain and that anyway
[Donald:] Mm
[speaker007:] is your faculties that know, if there was something that went out it wouldn't be conscious would it, it'd be unconscious, so you wouldn't actually be conscious, you're conscious is your brain working with your body, working with your mind and everything, it's, that's why you're conscious, when you're
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] unconscious there might be something that goes out some breath
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] but that won't be conscious, you'll be unconscious
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] so that won't be conscious of anything, you need eyes to see and to be conscious
[Donald:] That's right
[speaker007:] with your eyes closed you can't see
[Donald:] Yes you, you need
[speaker007:] so your breath
[Donald:] your senses don't we?
[speaker007:] That's right, your breath can't see in other words
[Donald:] No
[speaker007:] your spirit can't actually see, it's blind isn't it?
[Donald:] That's right
[speaker007:] If you're unconscious and you can't actually physically see
[Donald:] Yes that's right
[speaker007:] so if there was something that went out you wouldn't actually to be able to physically see where [LAUGHTER] where you're going
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] What they're getting mixed up with is the mortal soul with it, is that when they're using their imagination
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] when you use your imagination you can imagine that you're somewhere else can't you? And they believe that's another eye as it were, towards their spirit which they think's, you know it's a middle eye of, of knowledge that they be
[Donald:] That's right, yeah
[speaker007:] at the end of the day once your eyes are shut like that you've only, you've only got your imagination haven't you left?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] And they think because they've got that imagination while they're living it will still be there when, when we got, this is man's thinking again ain't it? It, this is
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] where they got their beliefs from, from them thinking, you know, they've mixed men's thinking with, with biologies and things ain't they?
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker007:] Philosophy and things
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] mm, erm the immortal soul belief is not a physical belief, it's something that's being had from, from guesswork from them
[Donald:] Well they
[speaker007:] made a guess haven't you?
[Donald:] well for it's, it's a isn't it?
[speaker007:] You've guessed in a way haven't you?
[Donald:] Mm
[speaker007:] So it's not a bit er, it's not something that's automatic?
[Donald:] No...
[speaker007:] To tell a child that he was automatically going to heaven, would not be biblical
[Donald:] No of course not
[speaker007:] because it's not the way... that er it was designed for it, it was designed for something in which men pressed forward to
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] wasn't it? It wasn't something that the child automatically got
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] those that haven't, are less fortunate than that, there must be something either for them or that they were going to heaven wasn't they?
[Donald:] That's right, yes
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] yes some will make it the earth, but then again some will vanish altogether
[speaker007:] Mhm that's right, yeah they will be
[Donald:] All those who call on the name of Jehovah will be saved
[speaker007:] It's a matter of having that faith, that should be Jehovah in Romans chapter ten, verse thirteen, it's a matter of working out... to, for logic of the original verse which it came from, cos that's been quoted hasn't it? The apostle there that wrote that letter has quoted a verse from somewhere out of the Hebrew hasn't he?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] He must of done, cos that's what they were using, they were using the Hebrew scriptures to, to quote on weren't they?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] So if you can go back to the original Hebrew of that particular verse then you'll find out how it's meant to be said, because a normal bible vision wouldn't read God's in there, it would read equals and the name of the Lord, will be saved you see
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] that's the way most bible verse is today, really want it
[Donald:] Yes, that's it
[speaker007:] if they would be very difficult to get through to somebody the truth
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] and that's the, that's come from the Hebrew that particular thing
[Donald:] er yes
[speaker007:] Mm, that's erm quoted from won't it?
[Donald:] erm?
[speaker007:] two is it? I don't know where that particular one
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] It was, I think on the cross reference where it's er quoted from yes it's yeah
[Donald:] Mm
[speaker007:] , two thirty two... that's where that cross reference comes from you see
[Donald:] mm
[speaker007:] cos if you think about it, the apostle source was the Hebrew scripture's that was their source wasn't it?
[Donald:] That's right and then yes
[speaker007:] What do you, so you've got to really refer to the Hebrew to find the truth haven't you?
[Donald:] Yes, I, and then I mean when the apostles, erm, then Jesus came on the scene, but, he was their source as well as the scriptures there
[speaker007:] Mm, that's right, yeah
[Donald:] Mm...
[speaker007:] It's like a combination isn't it? In fact the what, they found out the sacred secret, that's enlightened them to the Hebrew though
[Donald:] Mm...
[speaker007:] Sorry watch that [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] Forty five minutes left on here, mm
[speaker007:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah but, like you say that the... to find, to find out the real truth you have to refer to Hebrew anyway because they found out the sacred secret of God didn't they?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] But also the, the being inferred to, that enlightened them on the Hebrew didn't it? It must of enlightened them on what the scriptures meant, by the sacred secret, cos before it must of been some kind of weird mystery to them
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] all of it must, but all of a sudden Jesus came along and then enlightened their minds to the scriptures so they are inspired again to write the Christian scriptures then aren't they?
[Donald:] Oh, that they knew er something of the Hebrew scriptures because they were expecting the Messiah weren't they?
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] They were look they were waiting for him, they were looking for him... they were expecting him
[speaker007:] Mm, one er scripture which I always find very interesting is Hebrews chapter twelve, verse twenty two... look at that one...
[Donald:] twenty two?
[speaker007:] Mm, what he's talking about is the old covenant was to do with the mountain wasn't it?... And it was fearsome
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] Moses was sc scared then it says to the, [reading] the apostles that they'd approached a Mount Zion and a city of a living God, heavenly and millions of angels and also a general assembly and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens and also go with judge all and the spirit lives the brightest ones who have been made perfect [], now, see most bible versions don't use that spiritual there, [reading] they render it as spirit lives the brightest ones who have been made perfect [], now is that verse they're talking about the apostles then... reaching up to perfection and lives or is that talking about they've approached straight line that's already there in heaven, in other words, the, the, you know that the understanding which I have it from this bible is er that seems to be suggesting that er that's talking about apos the apostles' lives before they died, [reading] our spiritual lives with brightest ones [] who have at that er point been made perfect by... being prepared to go where they're going to
[Donald:] mMm
[speaker007:] in other words I'm trying to work out why this is spiritual lives and not spiritual lives you know there must be some reason why
[Donald:] Well a person can be, ever, these are the difference between a spirit
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] person or a spirit being shall we say, not a person, a spirit being and a spiritual being, see, you can have a human being which is, who is spiritual can't you?
[speaker007:] Mhm see that's what I'm trying to get at whether that's
[Donald:] Spiritual lives, we can have spiritual lives
[speaker007:] Mm, mm we could, but if, but if that ends there, referring to the people on the earth or the people on the heaven... or the
[Donald:] Nah
[speaker007:] spirits in the heaven, you know what I mean, you know what I'm trying to say?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] Is that verse there referring to the ones that have spiritual lives on the earth or the ones that already in, in the, the heaven with the spirit lives in there, you know what I mean?
[Donald:] Yes, oh and speaking entrentically about the congregation of the firstborn
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] will
[speaker007:] we haven't enrolled in the heavens you see
[Donald:] Yes so, the bit, it'll be part of the heavenly kingdom
[speaker007:] Mm, see they, they'd actually approached all this, they've approached it haven't they?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] Some bibles say that, that they've come to this, at the end of the day, they hadn't quite, had it at that point anyway, cos they'd approached it cos they were still alive weren't they?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] So the correct is to approach that
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker007:] you know what I mean, they haven't actually got that yet because they were still alive at this point here weren't they? So he's explained that this is what they've approached the heavenly Jerusalem
[Donald:] But yes
[speaker007:] you know
[Donald:] but er, you know these united ones on the earth today, righteousness
[speaker007:] Mm
[Donald:] has before they go to heaven,account
[speaker007:] Mhm
[Donald:] already accounted to them isn't it?
[speaker007:] Mm, see this is a very difficult one to understand, it takes a lot of er working out, you see... then he's also applied, approached the city you see which is called the same thing isn't it?
[Donald:] Mhm
[speaker007:] Also it's called another thing, heavenly Jerusalem with millions of angels in general assembly and the congregation of the first one which is the first fruits aren't they?
[Donald:] There could be no doubt in the mind of John that Jesus had been sent by God.... So what happened when Jesus was thirty years old? Erm... he erm, he ha he went to John the Baptist to baptize, to ask him to be baptized... Yeah that's right, very good, so nine, [reading] by pouring out this holy spirit and Jesus, Jehovah was er knighting him or appointing him to be the king of this coming kingdom, thing thus have anointed with the spirit, Jesus became the Messiah [], which words in the Hebrew and Greek languages mean appoint, a anointed, therefore he became in fact Jesus Christ or Jesus the United, so, so it was Apostle Peter spoke of Jesus who was from Nazareth, Nazareth, how about anointed them, but all the spirit and power, also by his baptism and water, Jesus was presenting himself to God, to carry out the work that God had sent him to earth to do, what was that important work? So mine asks when did Jesus in fact become Christ? And why then?... Er, when he was baptized... And Peter says by his baptism what was Jesus presented himself to do? To do er... God's will, erm... Yeah with read it here, hmm That's right as you say Yeah So [clears throat] when a person gets baptized then, what, what, they're dedicating themselves to do God's will aren't they? Yes, to carry out God's work, yes Were you, have, have you been baptized? No When you was a baby? Oh when I was a baby yes of course, yes So when you were a little baby [clears throat] did you dedicate yourself to do God's will then? No you're not capable are you? No Er [clears throat] So just for us you don't even know what God's will is do you? When No er you're a baby That's right and er There's something as well, er, er in baptism isn't there really? Godparents, these state that you should keep them on the straight and narrow [LAUGHTER] I mean you can't guarantee that No can they? and then again... did Jesus have godparents? No No, I mean if the parents can't keep children under straight and narrow That's right, yeah and don't and particularly these days they don't go, seem to have all that much interest in doing so do they? No no, not at all So grandparents are probably even less interested, you know Yeah so All the same as in my case, I mean [LAUGHTER] I erm, er my aunt, my aunt travelled to, to like to look after my mother, er she was one, and she died now erm she died two years ago, I think she was one of the first to go and er, the other one they fetched him out of the street the chap... then they corresponded with him up to the war [LAUGHTER] but, but after that, they, I don't know whether they stopped writing because of the war, I don't know, but they never, never got in touch with them never again so So that's when you were born? Yes when, when I was baptized How old where you when you were baptized? yeah, when I was baptized, she probably stayed there till I was baptized, cos she would of been Yorkie Somebody they just fetched out of the street? and they fetched somebody out of the street, this was, this was in er Worcester this was To be er, godparents? To be er to, yeah to be me godparents, checking how, how serious do you think this chap would take that duty, you know... Well just just grabbed out of the street I think when they lived there they used to meet regularly, cos erm, I suppose Worcester, Worcester in November Aye, people were more serious in them days than they are now aren't they? Take things more serious Er, yes, yes this was like nineteen twenty eight years old Yes Yeah, they would be er erm, I think they would, would be more like er, see of course when we came back here to Stoke [LAUGHTER] er I mean that severed relations with them so to speak apart from like say letters, they did use, used to write I remember getting letters and we'd send letters, perhaps only twice a year, but I can remember them mentioning. So regards to your upbringing they wouldn't, they discuss No, my, my aunt was in York, we used to see her once a year, Christmas, she used to come Very good that, so, the next why he came to earth? Er before we go into er, this next summary, have you any ideas yourself why Jesus came to the earth? Well I think probably it was such a bad place, putting, come to try and show a little light, proper way to live and Well you know er, I suppose that would be included, you know included Yes
[speaker002:] [dog barking]
[Donald:] Eh, eh give over These other, these other things erm, hello little girl
[speaker002:] Hello
[Donald:] there, what's your name?
[speaker002:] Clare
[Donald:] Clare?
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] Oh, how old are you Clare?
[speaker002:] Three
[Donald:] Three, oh I don't know, three already [LAUGHTER] and you like going to see granddad?
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] Yes... there, we're just reading this book for a minute or two, if you want to sit, sit and listen you can, you're alright lovey, you're gonna sit down there, sit on that chair if you like Er sit up, bring that chair up there look... get the towel off there in case you lean back, put that up there then Very good that, use, you can erm sit, sit and listen are you?
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] That's a good girl
[speaker002:] but my mum's here
[Donald:] Your mum's here Mum's in now is she? alright then [LAUGHTER] Well if, after sitting a bit if you want to go into your mum you can can't you? Very good then, so why he came to earth says [reading] explaining why he had come to earth Jesus told the Roman governor Pontius Pilate, will thus I've been born and for this purpose I have come out of the world that I should bear witness to the truth, but what particular truth was Jesus sent to earth to make no man, first just about his heavenly father, he taught his followers to pray that his father name be hallowed or hell holy and he prayed, I have made your name manifest to the man you gave me [], also he said [reading] I must declare the good news with the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth [], so what truths did Jesus come to er, to tell? Er, truth about his heavenly father, erm... taught his followers to, his father's name be heard how holy What did he [dog barking] How important could you from this work of making known this father's name and kingdom, he said to his disciples [reading] my food is for me to do the will of him that sent me and to finish his work [] why did Jesus consider God's work to be as important as school? It was because the kingdom there's the means by which God will fulfil his wonderful purposes for mankind, for humankind, it is this kingdom that will destroy all wickedness and will clear Jehovah's name of the reproach that has been brought upon it. So Jesus never held back for making known God's name and kingdom. He always spoke the truth whether it was popular or not, he lo loves provided an example and we should follow if we want to please God. Why did Jesus consider his work so important?... My food is My food is for me to do the will of him that sent me yes, without little food nobody can live can they? No And yet Jesus felt that it was ju equally important as having food Yes think about this kingdom and to finish his work, do not, you will, while eat a lot you know what he meant by finishes his work so erm, we ask, what did Jesus never hold back on doing? and so what should we do? Well er, you never hold er, you always the truth... erm, oh you never, never hold back and make be known in God's name the kingdom, he always told the truth whether it was popular or not, that's really, so erm... come on you, are you going out with Clare, come on, hey, come on, come on Pip, go on, go on We've just got this one paragraph, before we go to the next sub-heading erm, then we'll close there shall we? yes make it possible first to gain everlasting life under the rule of God's kingdom, Jesus had to pour out his as two apostles of Jesus said [reading] we've been declared righteous now by his word, the boy of Jesus God's son []
[speaker002:] Come here then
[Donald:] so an important reason why Jesus came to
[speaker002:] Pip
[Donald:] was to die for us, he said as soon as man came not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul for life, as a ransom in exchange for but what does it mean that Jesus Christ stake his life for a ransom, why was pulling out was necessary for our salvation but the question asks what, [reading] for what, what other important reasons did Jesus come to earth [] Erm... oh er, to clear us all of sin Yeah... how, how would he do that? Oh erm, by blood, by the blood in Jesus In other words God's son, all our sons the same And what would Jesus have to do for that? Die Er can explain er why, you know, why would he have to die? To cleanse us from sin, what type of sins in particular in the, would he be cleansing as at?... Would you the paragraph? Erm, no, erm definitely erm I'll go with salvation Yes erm, when we've done wrong repent and Erm well if yes erm... yes, but er there's another reason as well, there's another reason, we can't save the souls can we? By any means Oh no no so how, how was it that Jesus saves us and had he, he'd got to die for us, what, couldn't he save us without dying because his death was, wasn't very nice by any means No so why did he have to die?... who, who was it that brought down the human race?... Oh erm Can I put this on Eric?
[speaker002:] Yes you most certainly can
[Donald:] [LAUGHTER] Very good, so... about television what were you saying?...
[speaker002:] About er television and it's so er... in if you, if you read, do, do your er, what do you call it? Er preparation
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] for the er studying for thermographic school... you'll find in the old people's, in the old people's book, you are asked to read a chapter there and it's er full of er advice regarding television
[Donald:] Oh
[speaker002:] and its restrictions you know for religious interested
[Donald:] Yes erm very good, I'll have a look at that Eric
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] Mind you I've, I've got to do a
[speaker002:] it's a complete chapter we've got to read you know
[Donald:] Yes, I've got to do er our Tuesday's group
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] and they erm, the revelation book.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[Donald:] Ah, had a good day today?
[speaker002:] Yes I have... what about you?
[Donald:] Yes alright I've er
[speaker002:] Have you been on the er thermographical on the, on the
[Donald:] no I've been erm, playing some doing a bit of research... oh erm had a good night last night, I went to see Mary, did I tell you
[speaker002:] you said you was going either or to both
[Donald:] The mission meeting oh yes well now er did you go
[speaker002:] no where we went was the erm... well where we went first was the Dunkirk, didn't like what we hear in there, so we went from the Dunkirk and tried to get in the erm Smithfield hotel, we were unable to do that
[Donald:] In Newcastle?
[speaker002:] Yeah, we were unable to do that
[Donald:] Why, was it packed?
[speaker002:] It was er a private do
[Donald:] Oh, yeah
[speaker002:] so er we couldn't get in
[Donald:] is it erm it's, it so, I know, I never ended up where I said I was going either... cos erm I met this Rus Russian lady and her sister was with her as well and we were er, she advised me not to go to Russia for the time being because it will be over, she said there's gonna be a lot of blood shed
[speaker002:] Yeah, well I thought that Don
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker002:] apart from that I mean too, it's in political upheaval at the moment
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker002:] er the Soviet Union is
[Donald:] Yeah, that's where she got this information from and she mentioned Vadeen, that Lieutenant in the Russian Red Army
[speaker002:] Yeah...
[Donald:] mind you, not that he's giving any secrets away, it's been
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] mentioned
[speaker002:] well publicized
[Donald:] Yeah, but erm...
[speaker002:] Yes, so what er [LAUGHTER] that council on [] study and television er couldn't of come at a better time Don
[Donald:] Yes do we know
[speaker002:] To be perfectly honest Don I think you, you should retain the television, but you should restrict too with the regard to your use of it
[Donald:] Well, yeah that would be probably the best, yes... you know, I know what it like, I might make a determined effort, but I know what a overpower, you know, creep up on you, I, I'd, it'd just get the better of me Eric that's why I got really the other one you see and that, I, I haven't come to any harm not having it, and erm I've just got to get rid of this because it's, I'd do a lot more Eric if it weren't for the television, I know I'll miss it when I get rid of it you see, it has been described as a plug-in drug
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] but it all well and good, but for twenty year, we shouldn't be talking about this, when I was in Ireland... a couple of years ago the skew over overseer said he had to get rid of his television for the same reason, he er couldn't turn it up start repairing the at the last minute you know
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] and er, he didn't intend it that way, but er it's the way it turned out a television you see with me living on my own for such a long time now, erm... it seems er... it seemed to get in the way, you had the television and listen and look at it
[speaker002:] Yeah [cough]
[Donald:] there's a lot of activity going on in the house, then it would be so er no point
[speaker002:] Yeah... [whistling]
[Donald:] It's been mild again hasn't it?
[speaker002:] Yeah... that's considering it's January [whistling] it reminds me of this global warming that's taking place down on everywhere
[Donald:] Oh yes, that's probably what it is, I'm sure it is, because when we were young, do
[speaker002:] Winters were much more bitter weren't they?
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker002:] Prolonged as well
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] I don't like the cold snaps but they haven't been for long have they?
[Donald:] No... no I, if we do have any er severe snow again or ice
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] I'm thinking of buying myself some ice skates, I've been promising myself those, just, you know over the last few years when we have had a, just a bit, mind you there was one year about six years ago weren't it, where we were
[speaker002:] You ought to be very careful with living on your own Don you could break an ankle and you'd be in real serious trouble [cough]...
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker002:] dangerous sport that is, that and skiing
[Donald:] No well no, ice skating
[speaker002:] Yeah, well it's a dangerous sport you can get hurt easy
[Donald:] I know you can, I have been ice skating on er the rink a few years now
[speaker002:] Going past Don
[Donald:] Oh sorry, erm... it's a good job you said Eric
[speaker002:] Yeah...
[Donald:] mind you I have er, I have that way inclined you know, I do take too many risks I suppose really.
[speaker002:] What's that knocking noise? Is it from under the vehicle?
[Donald:] It's when I was reversing, it seems to be a common thing [clears throat] with these, somebody else has got
[speaker002:] Where you going now?
[Donald:] Oh I thought you said I'm going past, oh it's there int it?
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] [sighing] I don't know [] where I'm going.... right er... it's unusual that knocking that isn't it?
[speaker002:] Yeah, what, what do you reckon it is do you know?
[Donald:] I think it's the brakes... my driver was saying he was saying, this other chap he knows that's got one of these cars, the same happens it does it, it's a fitting
[speaker002:] yeah
[Donald:] I'll turn that off when you get in there.
[speaker002:] Just put it in, er I'll have it
[Donald:] it's okay, keep, keep
[speaker002:] yeah
[Donald:] cos the motor might er
[speaker002:] Motor right ...
[Donald:] I have it er, I have it in the taxi
[speaker002:] Oh yeah
[Donald:] you know and talk to people
[speaker002:] I think because obviously if it as I say of different people
[Donald:] Mm, is there something big with [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Donald:] what's that word mean?
[speaker002:] I'm sure that won't er
[Donald:] Mind you and, and for compiling dictionaries I think it's used for as well
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] er mind you I bought a dictionary about a month, six weeks ago
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] and er I was looking at in, there's a lot of slang words that I think what
[speaker002:] Ah
[Donald:] they put that word in for you know
[speaker002:] that's because it so common int it?
[Donald:] Yes, that's ser so many slang words, I thought well fancy putting them in, what will they be putting in next? You know I, I felt that the English language is being corrupted
[speaker002:] Yeah...
[Donald:] Mm... there's
[speaker002:] closing down
[Donald:] They've been closing down since I've known them
[speaker002:] Oh this is for real now Don
[Donald:] You don't think this, it's not a
[speaker002:] it's not a joke now it is, it's for real
[Donald:] Is it?
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] Have they got any thing much left?
[speaker002:] Eh in what, depends what you want really
[Donald:] I suppose you get stuff as well as one as old
[speaker002:] well er he's still getting certain things in like doors I think and er, what have you, but er, and then he's going for the D I Y sort of stuff now, I think he's stocking that
[Donald:] Has he rented the premises?
[speaker002:] Erm, I don't think so, I think it might be theirs, oh you mean rent it to somebody else?
[Donald:] Yes, yeah
[speaker002:] I think one part of it might be rented out, but not the shop, but I think he might be renting them out as well
[Donald:] He was, I can't, for, that light's come on
[speaker002:] That's your parking brake
[Donald:] Oh... one brake or is it
[speaker002:] Does it mean that maybe your brakes are low? No cos that's your parking brake?
[Donald:] Oh
[speaker002:] I can't, unless it's just the light's a bit funny or what have you
[Donald:] Oh, it doesn't, well, before it was alright
[speaker002:] Mm
[Donald:] it's just as I've started innit, I thought oh I haven't pulled the handbrake off, you know, but, it won't go any higher
[speaker002:] Oh maybe it'll clear itself when it's
[Donald:] It could be of the erm the brake pads I think
[speaker002:] Maybe but it's the wrong one int it? It's, that's the P for parking brake
[Donald:] The brake's alright, although it wasn't on when I put some brakes on
[speaker002:] Well I think we'll have, if the brakes have gone at least we've recorded our last words [LAUGHTER] for it []
[Donald:] Oh yes, also, you know, what, in, you know, if we get any terrible people in the car
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] I, I, I press that down you know
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] so if you did fit anything on the back of the head they'd had the comfort, they know what was wrong like
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh dear, well I mean you should take this in the pub with you or what have you
[Donald:] Well I was going to, but you know my pockets?
[speaker002:] Yeah
[Donald:] I can't get, they're, they're stitched up
[speaker002:] Alright
[Donald:] I can't get that far in it
[speaker002:] Oh well I can get it, I can get it in my car
[Donald:] Yes, alright, and you can have the er that on your lapel sort of
[speaker002:] I'll look like, well I'll look a bit strange but er oh well
[Donald:] just somewhere
[speaker002:] I'll have it discreet, I'll have it on my tie
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] have it down on my tie....
[Donald:] [whistling]
[speaker002:] Well I wouldn't imagine myself doing this tonight Donald I can tell you that
[Donald:] What you doing?
[speaker002:] I wasn't planning on coming to the Moat House with it and recording a conversation
[Donald:] Oh it's going, ooh, it went out actually just as we went over a bump
[speaker002:] Ah it might be, maybe a dodgy earth or something that keeps the light on
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker002:] it's only, it's only a bulb int it that's er
[Donald:] Well I wonder if it could be the brake fluid cos that's...
[speaker002:] It's got owt it do it's, probably does in action the batteries alright when you started?
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] Oh yeah, the lights are on, it's alright
[Donald:] new batteries today, well tonight
[speaker002:] Do they pay for your batteries as well?
[Donald:] Oh everything, they give me a stack of batteries, they told me to change the batteries after every three tapes
[speaker002:] Good grief it must cost them a fortune to erm... you know, pay for all these then, so they give you the Walkman to, while you're doing this and they give you the batteries, tt
[Donald:] Oh it's
[speaker002:] mm... just been to pick up a chap you see for the dance, you know across the we've got er, we pay for different things
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] well er, I went down to give him my book cos I do anything it's a book we write everything down in
[Donald:] That's right, yes I remember
[speaker002:] He was going to leave it tonight it just so happens that I'm courting tonight
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] and erm, we've, we've sorted out the balance up till the end of December, so they actually owed us money, even though the balance was in our favour, we're better off... though it's gotta go in the bank
[Donald:] Oh is there a
[speaker002:] yeah
[Donald:] You find it easy to do?
[speaker002:] Er it's not difficult at all really Don, I think when you're at first thing do, it might be a bit of a prospect to the end of the month cos er during the month it's a doddle
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] it's just, just the incon it's just, maybe a bit inconvenient to the bank sometimes during your dinner break
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] or what have you, but erm, it don't take very long
[Donald:] Yeah
[speaker002:] erm, but, erm... it's, it's pretty straightforward, I, I usually refer to the previous month's erm things anyway just to make sure I'm doing everything right cos they use ...... no, you have a second side of the tape
[Donald:] Yes
[speaker002:] Oh... I don't think you'll make that ... this is disabled
[Donald:] Oh it is, isn't it?
[speaker002:] Oh great
[Donald:] Oh is your, is your bad leg better yet?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I've got a bad back but it don't, it doesn't class me as disabled...
[Donald:] We can go down the bottom end this way
[speaker002:] Yeah ...
[Donald:] You know it's so quiet you know this place is, it's such a, it's such a big place, it's ever so quiet inside
[speaker002:] I'll have to take my coat before I go in... because if it's a bit smoky or what have you
[Donald:] Oh I don't think it'll be smoky, I don't think there'll be enough to go round to make it smoky... you not, you're not gonna take that in then?
[speaker002:] Yeah I'm gonna take