[speaker001:] additional responsibility. We look forward very much to his succession to the Chair, and we wish him very well and I know that he can count on the full support of all the honorary officers, and all of you as members of the Council as he takes on these new responsibilities. So, I gather that Jeffrey would like to say a word or two, and at this stage, and if he would he would be welcome to do so, meanwhile er, as I've said, I hope you will join me in wishing er, the Bishop god speed, and in wishing Jeffrey very well for the future.
[speaker002:] [clapping]
[speaker003:] Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, it isn't that I would like to say a word, it is that told me to say a word, and I realise I am starting off in the right way. May I say how deeply honoured I am to be invited to chair N C V O. I am acutely conscious with a degree of trepidation and indeed humility, that I face a huge challenge in following in Alan's footsteps. You would anyhow not expect on this occasion any words of wisdom from me, indeed my wife and four daughters would doubtless tell you that you should never expect words of wisdom from me. So may I simply say briefly, but nonetheless with emphasis and sincerity two things. First that I believe the causes you serve are vital to the welfare and happiness of people in this country, and that they will become more so in future. And secondly, that I will do my utmost to serve you and those causes to the best of my ability.
[speaker002:] [clapping]
[speaker001:] Very well, I'll, let's just then move on to resolution number thr,thr, three as printed on your order paper. I don't propose to go right er, through it. I once chaired at, somebody may remember a sort of constitutional commission as it was grandly called, which we went through all these things with a tooth-comb in order to try to get the composition of the executive committee er, right and appropriate for er, this current time. So let me confine myself simply to inviting erm, Penny, to propose the resolution.... Those are mine, my, my, my You can come to this one if you will.
[speaker004:] It gives me pleasure to move the adoption of resolution three, that the executive committee be constituted as on page two of the resolution paper to consist of not more than thirty two members, and that those people listed on page two, be elected members of the executive committee. I'd also like to add a great thanks to the retiring executive committee for all the hard work that they've done during the past year. Thanks.
[speaker001:] And Paula, if she will to second the resolution.
[speaker005:] I'm happy to commend all these names to the meeting and to second the resolution.
[speaker001:] Is er, are there any comments or questions that any member of the Council would wish to put forward before we vote on this resolution?... Alright, then er, it has been proposed and seconded, and er, those in favour?... And those against?... Very well, that is carried certainly, nem con, quite possibly unanimous although it's rather hard to see into the far corners. Erm, so we come to special resolution number one, which is as set out on your order paper, which is to do with the replacement of a, er, clause in our Memorandum of Association, and I will invite Jeffrey to move it.
[speaker006:] Thank you. There are er, two special resolutions this year and they both relate to our investment powers. Erm, we set up an investment panel of the erm, the executive committee to specifically to look in detail at our investment policy, in the light of resolution four at the nineteen eighty-seven A G M. We've met with our investment advisors on several occasions, and we have considered our in, investment policy in some detail. We propose to establish a, an investment charter which will set out our policy and in particular balance the duties of us as trustees. Our duty is to secure the best return we possibly can or on, on our investments and yet at the same time to have regard to the aims and objectives of the Council itself. We've made some progress towards establishing the criteria which we should set out in our policy, and the mechanisms needed to control that policy. However, we have I'm sorry to say, identified two constraints in our powers, and we cannot make further progress until these constraints have been removed. We need to deal with these constraints by special resolutions which will amend our Memorandum of Association. The first constraint relates to the range of investments which are available to us as trustees. At present we're limited by the powers available under the Trustee Investment Acts nineteen sixty-one, this sets out the amounts which we may invest in narrow and wide ranges of investment. In general terms the narrow range of investments are fairly, very safe and secure investments, but they are ones which are less likely to secure higher returns but of course also, less likely to secure risks of low returns. The wider range is erm, what might be termed more speculative investments, but there are many shares available within the wider range which are in fact extremely sound and safe investments, and the sort which we as trustees would wish to invest in. Now at, at the moment we have to keep fifty percent of our investments in the narrow range and we may place fifty percent in the wider range. I have to say though, that when we the Council advise other charities on the investment powers that they should take when they're established and when they draft their Memorandum of Association, erm, we advise them to take wider powers er, than these, and we advise them that they should not seek to constrain themselves by the Trustee Investment Act nineteen sixty-one, as our own flexibility is constrained. The, the result of this, this constraint on us is that it reduces our opportunity to secure the best returns available. There are better returns available from wider range investments than from narrow range investments, and better returns without unnecessarily increasing our risks. Secondly the, the constraint reduces the opportunity that we have to pursue the ethical investment policies which will have regard to the aims and objectives of the Council as a whole, and then lastly there is the matter of practicality. Erm, since the wider range investments on the whole tend to increase in value more rapidly than the narrower range investments, then as the investments in the normal course of management are bought and sold, the proportion which you have invested in the wider range tends to increase faster than the proportion that you have invested in the narrower range. We therefore would need to do some quite careful accounting in order to make sure that we didn't contravene that erm, the, the requirement of the Trustee Investment Act in the future. So we wish therefore to remove this first constraint on our powers and I'd emphasise again that it is, is our intention to use, it's not our intention to use the wider powers to increase the risks, it's simply to improve er, our ability to gain the best returns and satisfy the objectives of the Council. The trustees will still be bound by a duty to act prudently and in the best interests of the Council and its members. I therefore move the first special resolution.
[speaker001:] Thank you, is erm, David here? I've rather doubt that he might not be and, and then Bert er, has very kindly said that he would erm, stand in for him to second this resolution.
[speaker002:] I formally second the resolution, Chairman.
[speaker001:] Thank you. Erm, well I think that er, the report of these er, resolutions and er, of this resolution, and er, so er, but there may be questions or comments on it, so... no alright, then er, let me put it to you. That is, special resolution number one, on your order paper be approved. Those in favour?... Those agin?... None. Thank you. Would you like then to go on, erm, Jeffrey, to special resolution number two? It's a kind of accompanying resolution to the one that you have just passed.
[speaker006:] Thank you. The trustees in acting prudently on investments need to take advice, and, and we have done so for many years, and our investment advisors are currently Schroder Investment Management Limited. Under the Financial Services Act, a number of provisions have been passed to protect investors, erm, and N C V O, as an investor also comes under the protection of the Financial Services Act. One, one particular requirement of the Act is that there should be a management agreement between the investors and the investment advisors. This management agreement is to formally set out the relationship between them to establish the investment policies to be pursued, the powers of the trustees or the investors, and the investment advisors, to establish clearly the fees and charges which are to be made by the advisors and the basis on which they will be made. To establish how the advisors shall report on their activities to the investors, and to set out any other conditions which the investors may wish to establish. The Financial Services Act also requires for a body such N C V O that their Memorandum of Association should actually include an explicit power to use investment advisors. This second special resolution is designed to enable us to comply with that requirement of the Financial Services Act. There are however, a number of safeguards in that resolution. In particular the resolution requires that we the trustees, should establish clear policy guidelines, and the investment panel I hope, will very shortly be able to do that. Secondly it requires that all transactions made on our behalf shall be reported promptly, I, I would emphasise that this is already the practice the investment tr, er, transactions are already reported to our Finance Department and trustees of course, must sign the necessary transfer forms. Thirdly there is a power for the trustees to revoke or amend the agreement at any time. And then lastly there is an obligation on us to review at least annually, the position of our advisors. As you know we meet with our advisors, at least twice a year, and we effectively review that erm, that agreement at those six month points. But we may also in the future, wish to review it more formally and consider what other, er, arrangements we might make. So I would emphasise then, again, that the resolution is intended to enable the present position to continue, and to enable your trustees to manage the funds effectively in setting the policy and benefiting from the advice which is available. I therefore move the second special resolution.
[speaker001:] Thank you Jeffrey. Perhaps Mr. Spencer would oblige again, erm, by seconding this resolution.
[speaker002:] I formally second the resolution, Chairman.
[speaker001:] Right, thank you. Erm, now any comments or que, or questions or whatever er, on this resolution? Resolution number, special resolution two, as printed on your order papers?...
[speaker002:] just to say
[speaker001:] I was afraid that everyone had lost their voices, er, it's good to have a, a question.
[speaker002:] Yes, this is a question on the er, resolution two, item five. It talks about the Council remaining liable. Er, is the Council or is it the trustees remain liable, I'm unclear on that point?
[speaker001:] Perhaps Jeffrey would like to deal with that, or Adrian.
[speaker006:] I think er, Joe, it might be more appropriate perhaps if our legal advisor tells us of the niceties of the clause which he drafted.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker001:] Right, Adrian. Gentlemen, this is a clause based on a provision recommended by the Charity Commission. The answer here is a very technical one, but the trustees of an organisation of this kind are of course the, the executive committee. They're the directors in, in company law, but they're the executive committee names in the Memorandum of Association. They're also the charity trustees, and I think it would be true to say that in the very final analysis they are the people who are ultimately responsible. Does that erm, meet your point?
[speaker002:] Yes, I believe that actually it should be the responsibility of the officers of an association to take the responsibility. They are reported to, they define the policy, and I don't believe that it's the intention of the executive committee to come to this meeting every time there's a change of investment policy. I don't believe that would be the practice, and therefore I believe the executive committee as the trustees and custodians on our behalf, in this matter, should take the responsibility, and I would have preferred the trustees rather than the Council to have been stated at that point.
[speaker001:] Jeffrey, Adrian. If, if as I understand it, it's a matter of law, and the practice will be much as just suggested, is that a correct er, interpretation. So I think your point is in effect met, but we have to observe very properly the requirements of the law. Right, erm, any other comments or suggestions on special resolution number two? Very well, may I put it to you that this special resolution be adopted. Those in favour?... and those against? Thank you er, and that is passed.... Now we have er, erm, reached the conclusion of the formal part of the, this Annual General Meeting. At the next session, will be chaired by Kay, and er, she will tell us what she is about as it were, erm, in a moment. Before that, there are one or two other things I should like to do, er, in particular to thank Tunstall Telecom for their spart, part sponsorship of this meeting. They're very much involved with networked community care, to use their own phrase, and those of you who want to know more about them, they've got a stall outside, and er, their wares so to say, are set out for you to see. Erm, otherwise it remains only to say thank you very much for coming, I hope you've found the experience helpful. I'm grateful to you for your readiness to fall in with the proposals made, and er, I have enjoyed the opportunity to chair this A G M. The meeting is now concluded.
[speaker002:] [clapping]
[speaker007:] It is for people properly funded by a democratic enabling local state and under con, the control of those who have no pecuniary interest in the development of care. Voluntary organisations er, can do this and are in the best place to undertake this. Of course we must be cautious about taking on difficult tasks as if to prove our social virility. This was put well by Diana, and her colleagues in a Policy Studies Institute report a couple of years ago. [reading] Voluntary organisation they said, in their desire for recognition and funds, sometimes seem all too willing to conspire with the statutory sector on the basis that they can do the impossible, but miracles take a little longer. [] Voluntary organisations, as Diana and her colleagues said, should have the confidence to suggest that although under the right conditions and with the right resources, er, they may be able to do the impossible, miracles are not on offer. The communitarian state would provide those resources to in,in, to do what perhaps has been traditionally seen as the impossible, but it will require extensive support. Health authorities and local authorities must be encouraged to come to see the necessity of providing local umbrella groups such as Councils for Voluntary Service, with grant aid to develop industrial relations expertise, er, marketing help, P R help, and so on. If not voluntary organisations may be able to obtain some of those from the private sector if they know where to look. Perhaps C V S's can act as er, brokers for relevant professional services. But the important thing is that the voluntary sector must hijack the trends from the old statism to the new individualism, and steer it into a better way. We've got to be pro-active about this, it's no good simply sitting back and waiting for whatever government is in power, to impose certain regulations, certain restrictions, certain proposals. From being mainly voluntarily established we must see the development of new catalysed organisations meeting specific needs. Statutory agencies will have to use a judicious mixture of grant and contract to help set up new organisations run by the community for the community, to create the range and choice required by consumers. The voluntary sector I believe must accept those developments whilst at the same time, demanding effective regulation and monitoring to create a managed community market. Although some of the worst fears of those who dislike the market mentality can be discarded there is no doubt that complete freedom of competition particularly in social care, will not work. This strategy requires a major change in the way voluntary organisations perceive themselves, and the way local and central government perceives the community. Some of the trends are already there, others need to be encouraged. None of it will be easy. The voluntary sector though, has a greater role to play now than ever before, both as advocate and service provider. They will need extensive support from N C V O and other groups, er, to be able to undertake that task. If central and local government are serious in their intent to create choice and consumerism, what I would call welfare consumerism in health and social care, then they must also take seriously the need to support voluntary organisations trying to meet those aspirations. By and large I do not believe that people want for profit organisations running human service delivery. Indeed I don't believe the private sector can get into the community in the way that er, not for profit, communitarian organisations can. What we need is to get the best of both worlds, an enhanced and more competent community providing care, support and help to individuals efficiently but without dumping disadvantaged people onto unsupported relatives. There is of course, an opportunity to use money currently locked up in large institutions and statutory organisations more productively through local effort. That is the challenge for local government. The current government must recognise that it cannot continue to go down the line of an individualist anxiety- ridden state, of competitive individuals where the poor and disabled are left to starve on city streets. On the other hand, Labour and other opposition parties, cannot just reassert the old statist notions about public funding of public production. Whichever of the two main parties forms the government of the early nineteen nineties, it will have to create a greater consensus in health and social care as well as other areas of our national life. Not only that, but a fuller consensus morality is also required. The voluntary sector is probably the only vehicle by which that dialogue can take place. I believe the voluntary sector is on the brink of massive change, there will be those who cannot cope, and will harp back to the old authoritarian days of small grants and sherry with the Chair of Social Services. There will be those who just cannot get into gear, who will watch the private sector take over many of the functions which have been, previously been run by local government. But there will be those who will grab the trends and steer them into a new direction. The scope for the voluntary sector and not for profit activity in the nineteen nineties is immense, it will not be expansion just for its own sake, but principled entrepreneurial activity aimed to make the most of opportunities on behalf of the community. Being of the community can assist in empowering the community to provide better services and support for disadvantaged and disabled people. Er, at the same time, the voluntary sector can assist in developing a new shared morality. A highest common factor of our collective conscience. Nothing less will do. Thank you.
[speaker002:] [clapping]
[speaker008:] Well I'm not sure how you follow that, exciting challenges, persuasive ideas, sound strategic proposals for the future, not to mention a word with which not all of us may be entirely familiar, and I include myself among them, communitarian. Er, we have set questions on the agenda, and Chris, I think we've time? Yes, just for a few questions if you've gathered your thoughts together. There's so much in what Chris has said is there not, that we, I'm so pleased that your address is going to be published because I feel that it's something we shall want to have and to take back to our organisations. So would anyone like to ask a question of Chris?... Would you like to say who you represent please.
[speaker006:] My name's Carolyn and I'm for Director for a group exploring parenthood. I suppose my first experience is one of immense frustration, because I think this is very important document that you bring to us, but the speed and the sound being, the loud sound of delivery made it very difficult to stay with the, the concept and ideas. So I would first urge that we get that paper out to us as soon as possible.
[speaker008:] Thank you, Chris would you like to comment.
[speaker007:] Yes, first of all er, is this, this is er, on. I'm, I'm sorry if it was to difficult to, to follow, either because of the microphones or
[speaker006:] It was so loud
[speaker008:] Was it, I am sorry. Erm, also I, I wanted to try and cover the main points and it's very difficult with a subject like that to, to only give you part of the, the story otherwise people would immediately say, well, yes, but you haven't thought about this or that. I'm quite sure you'll still say that, but erm, because it is er, it's in a sense, it's complex. I, I think to erm, very briefly to answer your point, erm, I believe that the, the quotes contract culture which is around at the moment, has missed out a major component which is concerned with community development and community enhancement. Erm, and I, I, I think that's very, very important. There's this tendency to suggest that there are these providers out there, that will provide. That health authorities and local authorities can simply tender and contract with the people there, and they're not there. Or if they are there, they're existing voluntary organisations which may be already very loaded, who've got a lot of work to do, to get into a negotiating framework and so on, so the first the thing I'd say in answer to you is that, N C V O and other must put a tremendous pressure on government and local authorities to fund the community development aspect of the pluralistic society which er, the current government seems to want. Erm, secondly, we will only be able to do that effectively and this is the point you were making about say, erm, school governors and so on, if people really feel they do have some genuine power, locally, it must be about enabling and empowering local groups to have power and take part within their community. Because so many of the people who, so many people at the moment feel I think that they, they have very little real influence, and that's why people don't turn up, it's why people don't vote for local government. Erm, and what I'm interested in is how we can through local democratic channels create true empowerment of the community. A community which is then in a position to provide care and support within the community properly funded by local government, so it becomes a symbiosis. But it does require that the local er, er, organisations feel genuinely empowered, and that's a major challenge for local government. Thank you very much, I'm sure there's a debate within that, that we can all continue, and I hope we will continue because it's so important. Er, Ray, Sir Ray.
[speaker009:] Whenever I hear Chris I'm illumined for three quarters of the time, and dazzled for the other quarter. Erm, could I take a couple of points. Erm, first the unimportant one is semantic. The problem about the word communitarianism is that the French have pinched it. It means being a good member of the community in Europe, so I don't think that horse is going to run. But if what it means is to combine a sense of community, a sense of society, a sense of inter-dependent provision and collaboration in doing it and in providing true welfare con, consumerism, the government have chosen the word partnership. Now I think it's in Alice in Wonderland, that it is said that words mean what I intend them to mean. Can't we build on the word partnership and make it mean what you want. I think it's the nearest we'll get to it, and it's in the White Paper and it can be used in exactly the sense that I gather you would like it to be used, in the discussions we have on the results of the scrutiny, and that would be the starting point there. The second point is being totally in favour of you're selling your book. Do you in it go a little further in exploring the criteria which should govern who does what? Starting one supposes with who does what best, to get away from the sense of the government imposing a ratchet, on expenditure. That's perhaps enough.
[speaker007:] Yes, thank you. Erm,... Two points, the, the first on partnership. I, I don't believe, I don't want to impose a particular word, and if communitarianism is a difficulty then I, I accept that. Er, it was the best word that I felt I could use at this time, it may be that a, if a debate ensues from this, or from er, other er, writings about, of myself and other people over this next few months, that a term will emerge that people feel happy with, but certainly we are talking about community partnership. We are talking about erm, enabling and empowerment and the enhancement of community, and I think those are the terms which really matter. How, erm, er, and, and I think as you're saying what word we put round that, almost doesn't matter as long as it's understood to mean that, erm, that, that range of, of concepts and requirements. In relation to your second question about criteria, er, I do say something about that, I do try to erm, tease that out to some extent, but it is of course, a difficult one. Erm, in many ways, one could say that the community or community organisations, local organisations are capable of running most things, erm, indeed they did at once, and some of those functions were taken over by the central or local state. If we go back forty, forty five years social work, erm, housing was all provided by voluntary agencies or private agencies, and not necessarily by the state. Erm, and so, but we do need to do that, and I believe the work that you have been doing erm, I don't know when that's to be published, er, but will I'm sure assist us in developing the criteria which will help voluntary organisations to decide what they properly should be doing. I think perhaps the most important thing is that voluntary agencies should do what they believe is right, and not allow their own objectives to be distorted, simply because a, of particular flavours, which is why I'm saying let us grab the agenda and write the agenda, rather than have the agenda set for us by other people. Thank you.
[speaker008:] Thank you very much. I think er, we just have er, time for one very brief question if you would please. I think,... yes.
[speaker010:] Mervyn, representing Help the Aged, or at least representing myself in responding to Chris Heginbotham's address, but er, here for Help the Aged today. Can I identify with the objective of communitarianism, can I also share your concept that the voluntary sector is the locus within which that sort of discussion should be and can be taking place. But can I suggest it's probably a lot more difficult to get there than you were describing even with the various points that you were raising in your address this morning, because I wonder if it is fair for all of us, to accept the immediate linkage between the voluntary sector whatever we actually mean by that, and good community institutions, community thinking, community awareness. It seems to me that an awful lot of the voluntary sector does come from very much the individualist side of the equation which you were laying out in front of us Chris. You probably remember, erm, a stimulating little book published last year by Frank on the Impulse to Philanthropy, where certainly in his nineteenth century analysis of the growth of philanthropy, he saw to main things, evangelicalism, which er, meant that people were going out looking for converts, and therefore doing good social work on the way, and the growth of the women's movement, in the sense that women otherwise unemployed were looking for a new area of activity to get into. Both of those strands are very much part of volunteering, they're very much linked with the concept of the active citizen, and there are still lots of voluntary organisations that form and which continue, and which are existing today, which stem entirely from people's desire to go out there and do something, in their own way. So that is a very individual strand. Another strand of our present voluntary sector are the self-help groups which of course are also going to be extremely individual, and one third point, Madam Chairman, the development of not for profit companies and things like that could also have a very individual strand to them as well since they sound a little bit like our existing small business sector under a community name. Thank you.
[speaker008:] I don't think I'd quite greet that as brief question, but thank you to your contribution to the discussion. Chris would you like to respond quite briefly.
[speaker007:] Yes, I can probably give you a brief answer, because er, in that you've raised a whole host of other things, erm, which erm, er, we need to, we need to think about and, and debate, and I hope we'll have further occasions to do so. Er, I just the main point. I do think there are problems and difficulties, I don't think it will be easy, not least because we don't have a shared morality and a shared consensus, on the objectives for the voluntary sector, but it is a set of concerns which we must address, er, and I believe that if, if I've done nothing else today, I've kicked off a debate, or I've contributed to a debate which was already rolling, erm, and that we must address those difficulties, and try and find ways through them, because there are opportunities as well as threats in the current situation and I believe we have to look at all of those er, so that we can move into the nineteen nineties which I believe will be a very exciting period for the voluntary sector, and one which the voluntary sector should er, see as exciting, grab the opportunities and move forward.
[speaker008:] Thank you very much Chris. I think erm, the address we have just heard is a most valuable contribution to the series of the Sir George lectures, and I'm delighted that you were available and you were willing to do this. I think all the many ideas which have been proposed, the, the challenging thoughts, they will make a most enormous contribution to the discussions which we all will be having, and I think, not only ourselves in the voluntary sector, but those elsewhere also. Because as you so rightly say, we are part of that partnership of that er, movement forward, but there are other partners too, and we want to take them forward with us. So thank you very much indeed for your contribution, I think we've all found this a most interesting finish to the A G M of the N C V O.
[speaker002:] [clapping]
[speaker008:] Are there any announcements about lunch and things like that? No Oh,lu, lunch is served outs, outside, and erm, you all have had details of your special interest meetings, both the time and location, please make sure you check those on the notice board outside. Thank you.