[Danny:] Did I tell you what's on my desk downsta, I told you didn't I?... I didn't take did I?... What's on my desk downstairs right at this moment?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] You'll like this!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Is that sealed? I bet you're right.... What is on my desk at this moment? Two Abel Barder's books.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah.
[Danny:] Isn't that sad?... Isn't that sad?... And I'm actually admitting publicly that there are two Abel Barder's books on my desk downstairs!... And I had a.... And you think... it's sad?... I'm a bit worried you!... You've gone over all quiet!... [LAUGHTER] I don't think [].... Just not sure of.... [LAUGHTER] I thought of Christine [].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] making it []!
[Danny:] Oh, I meant to bring that with me!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Which has a complication.... And.
[Danny:] We'll do the questions and answers today children! [LAUGHTER]... Right!... Stuart!... Mister!... You're very quiet there Stuart!...... Chris
[speaker003:] Yeah!
[Danny:] as long as your enthusiastic about being here!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] That's why I like!... Actually that might spring better.... Tracey.
[speaker003:] Oh! Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Get it right!... Ann.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] Hello!... Good!... Daniel!
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Danny:] Congratulations! Sooner or later! Jonathan!
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] He's scra... you sa, you said that without moving your lips!... That was brilliant!
[speaker003:] I know,.
[Danny:] And Jason.
[speaker003:] Yep.
[Danny:] And Matthew.... Matthew without a voice!... Kenton...... and Joe!
[speaker003:] Yeah!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] And Steven.
[speaker003:] On holiday.
[Danny:] I'll fool them, I'll lock that door!
[speaker003:] Oh!
[Danny:] He always comes in that way doesn't he?
[speaker003:] Ha! [LAUGHTER] []!
[Danny:] Right people!... Two things to... do with you today mainly... one is to... whip through... at least part of the isomers work... and, I say part of it because... you'll be coming back to other parts of it a bit later on... when you've, for example,... we'll coming back to erm,... isomers work.... And at various stages during the organic you'll also be coming to... what we call optical isomers.... What I need to do is to go through them with you and make sure you fully understand what they... what their origins are etcetera... because isomers we base the questions are very very common... so I'll be able to talk about marks.... And what do marks make?
[speaker002:] Prizes.
[Danny:] Prizes, yes... a prize of that little envelope says... whoopee you have passed! It doesn't actually say that, it just gives a... but if you say whoopee I have passed. Not me, cos I've already passed, but you.... Yes.
[speaker003:] Are you... gonna do passing?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right, I want to go through isomerism and then go straight onto the... erm... e, go strai... glad you made, a bit late but er
[speaker003:] I thought it was?... Sorry.
[Danny:] You think it might be?... Actually, actually it's a good one!... Michael, now that is a superstar!
[speaker003:] Mm. Mm mm.
[Danny:] Er... some of you won't understand that.... Are you a superstar?
[speaker003:] I don't think so but....
[Danny:] He's fa, he's famous!... Fame, he's on the poster!... Quite genuine!
[speaker003:] You are serious?
[Danny:] Absolutely ge, Stuart is that true? That, Stuart never lies!... He's going to Cambridge so never lies!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Is that true?
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Sorry!... Right, so, let's go over isomers and then start on the hydro-carbons in some detail and pi... the first mechanism, we're talking about mechanisms general as well.... As far as mechanistic is concerned you haven't got to do an awful lot.... There are only about six mechanisms you actually need to know.... One of those... you've already met in detail in terms of kinetics as that was the idea of reaction... wasn't it Chris?
[speaker003:] Yep.
[Danny:] Yep!... The other one also came up in kinetics... and that's this business of... nucleus... [LAUGHTER]... nuclear filmic substitution.
[speaker003:] That's. Yeah.
[Danny:] Sorry?
[speaker003:] .
[Danny:] That side you get the filleca take that's right, [LAUGHTER] Yes []!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] More.
[Danny:] sume, assume.... Erm... alright, it's alright Chris... it's alright! It's all beyond you Chris, I know!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] It would be easier, be easier
[Danny:] It's all beyond me at the moment as well!... Right, so, if I just start on... isomers across the board.... Now, you must remember, in the link sheet... make sure you back up whatever you're getting here. Make sure you back it up with the exercises.... And, of course, you do have to log it, one of those various exercises and so on.... If you don't log it... I'll assume you haven't... and can I point out to you there's parent's evening coming up very soon, thank you very much!... And I'll have a chance yet again, to talk to your mummies and daddies before yo... you actually take your final exams.
[speaker003:] What happens if you kill your mummy and daddy?
[Danny:] Pardon?
[speaker003:] What if you kill your mummy and daddy?
[Danny:] If you kill your mummy and daddy I'll have to talk to you Peter!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] You better resuscitate them.
[Danny:] It's far better to erm... keep your mummies and daddies live... or at least, you know, do a psycho job!... With the stuff that we!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Ma... already []! !
[Danny:] Right... children!... First of all... Tracey... you can have the first opportunity to show how little you know.
[speaker003:] Sorry, this, it on here.
[Danny:] Sorry....
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right yo
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Oh no, mustn't!... How your knowledge is in millimetres, no I mustn't use millimetres!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Makes up the usual thing []!
[Danny:] She's had a lot to drink!... She's had a lot of off me today.... That's, ah, she's she's took it well!... She's not talking to me mind, but she's took it well!... Right... if I put the word
[speaker003:] Shit!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Erm... thank you!
[speaker003:] The word....
[Danny:] By the word I describe what does that suggest to you Trace?... Er... speak nicely cos
[speaker003:] Because
[Danny:] you're being recorded!
[speaker003:] It's a like er... using the same components but... put together in a different way.... Like different No! different ways of [LAUGHTER] putting... it's hard to explain.... []. It's this Karma Sutra that is!
[Danny:] But no
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] that was a good try Tracey!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] That's a good try! Emma.... Let's get the other half of the female... vote.... Don't suck your thumb dear!... It's so!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Erm
[Danny:] What's an isomer?
[speaker003:] It's something about Haven't got a clue!
[Danny:] No this is quite serious now!
[speaker003:] No... I don't really know.... Erm
[Danny:] Choose somebody... Emma.
[speaker003:] Daniel. Oh shit!
[Danny:] Danny, I was right.... Your turn Daniel, what's an isomer?
[speaker003:] It's... it's got the same nuclear format.
[Danny:] Right, first of all... they're compounds... make sure you take these down please. Compounds with the same molecular formula.... And obviously therefore, cos they... obviously therefore, they've got the same improvements on here as well. They're the same molecular formula... but... now what's the but, Chris?... Daniel's done the hard bit... for you... what's the but?
[speaker003:] You've got imperfect ones... that doesn't match... erm
[Danny:] I just said they had the same molecular formula
[speaker003:] Oh right.
[Danny:] Christopher!
[speaker003:] Er...
[Danny:] The same molecular formula but let's put a word in for you.... Different
[speaker003:] Structures.
[Danny:] Er... yeah, okay.... Let's, let's say different structural formulae.... In other words, the atoms are actually arranged... in a different way. They're bonded together in different ways.... Now, there's two main classes of isomerism... and don't just exclude... er, or don't just include... organic... isomers... cos we ge... get organic isomers as well.... You get occurring in yo, in your organic.... Especially actually.... And you'll meet some of them... when we actually do that area.... But generally there are two... main... classes of isomerism that we deal with... and very much like, like the classification on hydro-carbons that I did, there's a whole variety of ways they can be classified... that you've seen. This is just one model.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] This seems to work well... most seem to fit into it nicely.... First of all, we have... what we call... structural isomers, a whole group... of structural isomers.... And then we have a group of two... which are described as... stereo isomers.... Now, the thing about those two words... what do you think, stereo isomers is all about, without actually saying a specific type of isomer? What does it tend to suggest?
[speaker003:] What is it.
[Danny:] Nope!
[speaker003:] Two forms at once.... More than one form of... isomer.
[Danny:] Well that's for the isomers anyway isn't it?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] I know what you're saying.... You're getting close... cos you're concentrat, or you should be concentrating on the wo, on the part of the word, stereo.
[speaker003:] Oh! . Simultaneously.
[Danny:] No, not really.... It's all about space.... If I stereo isomers have a similarity... in that... they exist because of spatial... aspects.... And you'll come to understand exactly what I mean by that... it's all about three dimensional space.... Where structural isomers are literally what the word suggests... they have different structures... different ways of linking the atoms together........ But the stereo isomers are all about... three dimensional space, that's how they tend to differ... as you'll see.... Let's start the structural isomers, and we can use this as an opportunity to... look at some aspects of the.... Now, you should all still be working through the... on a continuous basis.... I am aware... that, I am aware of actually two people in the second year who have never used it so far.... Now, those two people or others who haven't used it much... you really must get into this disc! It's the easy way to learn... or it's easy, it's easy way to understand... and then learn the megiture.... You have to have a stu, a good familiarity with organic momegiture... if you don't, you could be throwing marks away... even before you get in that exam room!... Cos there will be aspects where you will have to use momegiture.... That they ask you specific questions of that naming... it's a multi-choice... more importantly in your written answers... you will have to... in, you are expected to include... and correct systematic ohms for any organics that you deal with.... Plus, of course, it means you're gonna go back in that direction... so if they say... something like erm... two chlorapropane active with... you need to be able to get structural formula from that name.... So you really have got to get to grips with it!... They're something you should be using right the way up to the... to the actual exams.... And, there's at least eight discs available at the present time, and more could be made available.... Not for your own use I hasten to add!... They've set up, increased the numbers of discs in the library... in the workshop... er, there's no increasing them up here cos there's, we need to buy a computer, but certainly up and in the workshop... and in the library.... You must hit it on a regular basis!... It's the easiest way to get to grips with it.... And those of yo... you who've been doing it for some time... will now realise... how easy it has made the momegiture.... You learning without even realising you're learning it.... Right, so let's start the structural, now there's a whole range of different types of structural isomers.... Position... positional isomers... branch chain... functional group... and there's one other odd one which has a very peculiar name... and the name it normally goes by is a fairly old name, now I'm not sure at this stage if that name is still used... but what I'll do is to describe... the form of the isomerism first... and let you decide what you would... prefer to call it.... In fact,i it does suggest... one of these other types of these isomerism... depends how you view... a functional group.... But I'll tell you the name that is used, or was used afterwards, but I don't know if that name is still used... I certainly haven't seen it in a text book in years!... But it is a genuine form... of isomers... but you may like to include into one of the others.... Well... that's entirely up to you, but... we'll see how we go with that.... Right, let's start with position isomerism. Now, position isomerism is all about the position of the groups... or the position of functional groups... so it's not just necessarily groups on their own... it could be functional groups. Now, I've made a distinction between those, in other words... a group maybe a methile group... now, methile group is not a functional group... it's not something that dictates the properties of a compound, necessarily.... And the influences... that doesn't dictate... and a functional group does.... Where as a functional group might be, for example, a no age group... which does tend to dictate the properties of that compound.... So there is a difference between using the word group and functional group.... Also... now I tend, as you've... probably come to realise... I've tended to include... specific types of bonding arrangements... as a functional group... for example, I call... a carbon carbon double bond, I call that a functional group... for the simple reason that that arrangement of bonds dictates... the principle properties of those compounds... and in that context I'm then using the word group a bit more liberally... instead of saying it's a group of atoms... which dictate... the properties... I'll say it's a group of atoms or... it's a special grouping of electrons, which dictate the properties.... Yeah?... And so did yo, can you see the difference between those?... So there's all those sorts of possibilities.... Now, let's look at some examples and... get you to name some of them as well.... Positional isomerism is very obvious... the only thing you have to watch out for, if the give you structural formulae... especially multi-choice papers... they're buggers they are when they, when they do this sometimes!... They... they may draw the same compound... but making the same structural formula, but drawn slightly differently!... And I tend to draw, most o, most of us tend to draw them as straight lines with branches coming off... they may actually... show the chain as a twisted chain... or zig-zag chain or going in to form a square or something!... So, you really do need to understand the megditure in order to be able to say, oh yes, those two compounds are the same!... Just been drawn differently.... You really have to watch that!... So, let's start with... position isomers and some examples... and try and select examples using these.... What I'm gonna to, what I, what I intend to do is just show the skeleton... in other words, most times I'll tend to do... right?... Just a quick and easy way of doing it.... Let's take this example here... I've got a carbon chain there and I'm going to put... a methile group there... and I'm going to put... a methile group there... two, three... that....... Identical chain again... let's have a methile group there... and one there... let's do one more of those... a methile group there... and a methile group there.... Now, in terms of naming these... always you go for the longest... straight shape that you can, by straight... straight really is in inverted commas... what we should really say... the longest continuous chain that you can find... in other words, you'd have to go back on yourself.... Now, if you look at all of these and find the longest chain we... you can actually get in that respect... is a six chain, isn't it?... There's nothing longer than a six. Do watch these examples I'm putting up, by the way cos I muck these up
[speaker003:] [cough]
[Danny:] sometimes!... I find this a bit tedious to keep doing this, so I tend to... you know, slip up sometimes
[speaker003:] [cough]
[Danny:] please check what I'm doing.... It's called thinking!... I've got this... I can't that one!... Erm... let's just take that chain... in each case because it's... it is a
[speaker003:] [cough]
[Danny:] chain... and we tend to read better, write horizontally... left, right, up a bit, down a bit... across, down a bit, up a bit... and so on.... Let's pick someone completely at random,, now we've had... Tracey... figuratively speaking! And Emma.... So we've... done our... what we should do, now we're giving the ladies full consideration first with the gentlemen. Haven't we Matthew?
[speaker003:] Baa ah ah ah!
[Danny:] John...!... Would you like to name that compound for me there please?... I mean that's not that's not a request.... As long as you understand that's an instruction!... What would you call it?... Obviously it's gotta be based on hexane isn't it?
[speaker003:] Two comma five di-methile hexate.
[Danny:] You want... two... comma... five
[speaker003:] Dash.
[Danny:] dash
[speaker003:] Yeah... I was gonna say that!
[Danny:] Yeah, you were just testing me to see if I
[speaker003:] Ah well!
[Danny:] get it!... Dire methile probate, is that what you want?
[speaker003:] No I said hexate.
[Danny:] Di-methile hectate?
[speaker003:] X!
[Danny:] Dire methile hexate.... Er, let's see... Daniel... silver glinting... from his eyelids!
[speaker003:] dash dire methile
[Danny:] We, I haven't asked you the question!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Let me ask you the question first!... Will you explain why that's correct?... If it is correct, do you agree with me?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] Alright.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Why is it correct?
[speaker003:] The two's there cos... the mephile groups
[Danny:] Mephile, what's mefile?
[speaker003:] Mefalle! Methile. [LAUGHTER] Well one of them's on the second one, and one's on the fifth one... it's cos it's ta, it's.
[Danny:] What you should be starting from is the longest chain.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] Longest chain is the sixth chain so it's gonna be based on a hexate.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] There are two methile groups... one in position two, one in position five. Does it matter which end you start Kieran? Hello!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Kieran?
[speaker003:] No.
[Danny:] Oh no I go... sorry that's the answer?... Is that, that is your answer?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Is that your ar, no, you're answer was no?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] It doesn't matter which end you start from cos either way it, it'll still be two, five.... Er, Chris you s... suddenly become extremely interested in what he's writing!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Do his ostrich impression! In other words, if I put my head down low enough... he can't see me!
[speaker003:] No, I'm trying to write... my down.
[Danny:] Yes Chris.
[speaker003:] Was is he gonna
[Danny:] We'll wait, yes we will wait, that's fine!
[speaker003:] I'm writing.
[Danny:] I'm, I'm going to wait.
[speaker003:] I think we've waited long enough!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Well that's alright we'll come back to Chris.
[speaker003:] No, it's okay I've done that now.
[Danny:] Oh good! You're, you're ready to
[speaker003:] Well I'll try and do that.
[Danny:] oh that's... awfully good of Chris, thank you!... Erm, what would you call that one Chris?
[speaker003:] Er
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] You don't need any help Christopher.
[speaker003:] Okay.
[Danny:] This is not a difficult
[speaker003:] Two
[Danny:] one!
[speaker003:] and then a three dash... die
[Danny:] Three dash die?
[speaker003:] Yeah, three... dash die methile
[Danny:] ... sounds like a bush!
[speaker003:] Er
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Come on look, I'm listening! These are not, but I am!
[speaker003:] Erm.... Oh ha!
[Danny:] No, no!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] No, see I, see I, alright, alright, no!
[speaker003:] Alright, okay, hold on, I know!
[Danny:] What?... Erm... Jason!
[speaker003:] Er... I'd say four three... four comma three... no, that'll be
[Danny:] Fine, thank you Jason!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Jonathan!
[speaker003:] Three, three die methile hexane.... In between
[Danny:] Well let's
[speaker003:] the threes
[Danny:] let's get the grammar in as well.... Three comma three
[speaker003:] Yeah, dash... die methile
[Danny:] dash
[speaker003:] hexane.
[Danny:] die methile hexane.... Yeah, you're longest chain... is a six... so it could of been clearly based on hexane.... And the two methile groups... so it's gonna be a die methile.... It's gonna be a, it's gonna be a die methile hexane... of some description... now, to indicate the positions... it's either three... or four, we take the lowest number... both are on... carbon number three so it's three comma three dash... cos you have to indicate... because you've said die methile, you have to indicate where both of those groups are... not just one.... Alright?... That's good!... Which means I should have the last one doesn't it?... Emma, you were smiling... or grimacing one of the two!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]... Erm... three comma... four comma dash die methile
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] What?
[Danny:] Yeah
[speaker003:] And comma!
[Danny:] Yeah, you've got this right, yeah!
[speaker003:] [whispering] []
[Danny:] Three
[speaker003:] No!
[Danny:] comma
[speaker003:] they're laughing at me!
[Danny:] four comma
[speaker003:] I ain't done nothing!
[Danny:] dash... Carry on Emma, you're alright!
[speaker003:] die methile hexane.
[Danny:] die methile hexane.... Anybody agree with that?
[speaker003:] Missed one out. Missed the last one.
[Danny:] Anybody agree with that?
[speaker003:] No comma.
[Danny:] The alternative could be... start from this end... is still three four... so it doesn't matter.... Now, these are examples of positional isomers just using ordinary groups... they only differ in the position of those functional groups, sorry, of those groups.... Now, in terms of functional group isomerism... I'm gonna take a slightly different example... right... let's take this one here first of all... I've now started to do what the examiners will do... now I'll make them identical structures there somewhere... and you really do need to be able to name them in order to see where they are... or if they are.... Matthew... no aliases today!... Would you like to name that one please Matthew?... And again, that wasn't a question!... Always start these off by considering what they would be if they were alkanes.... So if that was an alkane... that would be what?
[speaker003:] Dunno.
[Danny:] Four carbons?
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] [].
[Danny:] Yeah alright.... Read these propenes........... If that was an alkane... that would be a butane... four carbons........ This is an alcohol... it has an O H group... so it is a... butanole... but you have to indicate where... the O H group actually is... it's either on four... or it's on one.
[speaker003:] Oh yeah it is.
[Danny:] So you'd name this as... butane... in other words, you're saying it's a butane chain... you take off the E... you will add O L... and if there are positional isomers possible... you have to indicate the position... one O L... butane one L... one O L... butane one O L.
[speaker003:] Butane one O L?
[Danny:] Chris! What's that one?
[speaker003:] Butane one O L.
[Danny:] Exactly the same, right!... Er... Kieran... that one there?
[speaker003:] Butane two O L.
[Danny:] Butane two O L. Stick with the question Mark!
[speaker003:] It's an O L.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] You say it as though you mean it!... Not
[speaker003:] Butane two O L?
[Danny:] Not, Butane two O L, no... you see, you yourself. Why is it Butane three O L Kieran?
[speaker003:] Because you have to take the last number off it.
[Danny:] Take the last number, right.... Erm... Tracey... that bottom one, can you
[speaker003:] Ooh er!
[Danny:] see it from there?
[speaker003:] Sorry
[Danny:] Sorry!
[speaker003:] I'm not sure.
[Danny:] [LAUGHTER] Sorry,a tha, that was ac, that was completely []!
[speaker003:] Pick somebody else! Stop picking on me! Do you want your sticks?
[Danny:] And that was completely unintentional!
[speaker003:] Pick on
[Danny:] But can you?
[speaker003:] Pick on somebody else!
[Danny:] Tracey, talk at me!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] She is []!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] That [LAUGHTER] I am []!
[Danny:] Where's the pu, let's put it up there.... No, I mean, quite seriously we're gonna have these things removed... cos lose er... a third of the... anyway.... Let's write it up here a bit.
[speaker003:] I can see it really.
[Danny:] Oh we, I wasn't sure if yo, if you could.
[speaker003:] ... Oh!... Shall I just look past Matthew instead of trying to look through him! [LAUGHTER] Oh []!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] I just look past Matthew []! That wasn't called for was it? What's Matthew done to you lately?
[Danny:] Right come on!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right... longest chain... longest chain you can find.... Now with this little compound you've got to choose the chain that carries the functional group.
[speaker003:] Three,.
[Danny:] Right, listening children?
[speaker003:] No.
[Danny:] You've got to choose the chain that carries the functional group... in this case.... So
[speaker003:] And it
[Danny:] you're looking at this chain here.... So, that's gonna be based on propane, three carbons.
[speaker003:] Yeah I know. Pro, is that propane one O L?... It's the one
[Danny:] It would be
[speaker003:] next to the C.
[Danny:] propane wo, it would be propane one
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] O L... but it's a substituted propane one O L... because... you're choosing this chain here... it means that you've got this group as... the substituant... and you've replaced one of the hydros with a methile group.
[speaker003:] Oh!
[Danny:] So... we start off by saying it's based on propane... there's an O H group so it's a propanol... the O H is on carbon number one of that chain so it is a propane one O L.... Yeah?... But, you've also got a methile group on carbon two... of that chain.... Right? So it's gonna be two methile... propane one O L... agreed?
[speaker003:] Dash methile... is it three dash methile? Mm.
[Danny:] Two dash methile.... Well... yeah, you're right, yes you're right, no I shouldn't say that!... Yeah.... Two dash methile... propane... dash... dash O L.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Dash dash dot dot.
[Danny:] [LAUGHTER] do that get an SOS []!
[speaker003:] How do you join the erm... the methile and the propane together? Is it a comma, is it a dash or what? Or is it all one word?
[Danny:] One word.
[speaker003:] Right.
[Danny:] Right... now what would you call this?... And clearly these... two here... let's get rid of... let's get rid of that.... These two here are clearly position isomers.... They only differ in the position of that O H group. What would you call this?
[speaker003:] Branched out.
[Danny:] I mean where would you put it
[speaker003:] Mm.
[Danny:] in terms of it's classification?
[speaker003:] .
[Danny:] Would you call it positional?... Or... and can you call it positional?
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah.
[Danny:] Not really, can you? Well
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] It is... if you had... the other compound where this O H group was on carbon number two as well then those two... would be positional isomers... cos their carbon skeleton would then be the same... and all they would differ is in the position of the O H functional group.... Yeah, so if you had... if I try and draw it much the same... if you had that... and let's choose... let's choose er, well le, let's keep the same... let's keep to the same carbon chain... if you had that... the carbon skeleton is exactly the same... the only way it differs is that the O H group here is on carbon one... of that chain that we've chosen... where as here, it's on carbon two of that chain. So, those two would be positional isomers. Yeah.... But... either one of these... and what we've already put up... you can't really call them positional isomers... cos the basic carbon skeleton is different.... Can you see the difference between those?
[speaker003:] What's this?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] If I got these two... they are positional isomers... because the carbon chain is the same... and the only way they differ is in a position... of a functional group.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] These two here are also positional isomers, there carbon chains are the same... the only way they differ is in the position... of the functional group.... Yo, but you can't say that... either one of these... and either one of these... are positional isomers... cos their carbon skeletons are different.... Yeah?... It's a bit subtle.... Right, finally... something like a carbon carbon... just do a simple one... they balance for the carbon skeleton... these are true positional isomers, no other problem with them at all er erm!... Kempson... what would you call this one?... Don't cry!... I'm sorry to ask you a question Kempson.
[speaker003:] Can't you be nice for once?
[Danny:] I couldn't be nice if I, I've been an absolute swine today! I really have been evil!
[speaker003:] Then you confuse him
[Danny:] I can have one of these now... I've been the worst I've been for about six months... I really! Ain't I Trace?... If you think about this... it's based on the four carbon structure... so you've gotta have a few in the name... there is a carbon carbon double bond... so the basic structure we've got is the Butane... but as... there is more than one position you could have that... carbon carbon double bond... now, to indicate this position... and so this one would be called... futes... it would normally be a... butane... but to indicate it's position... bute one E... and again you're taking the lowest number... so instead of it being a bute three, it's a bute one E... you start at the appropriate.... So this one would be called bute... two E... and so again, these are true positional isomers... same carbon skeleton... they differ in the position of the principle... functional group, which in this case, has to be a special... electrons.... Yeah.... Right!... Branch chain isomerism... What do you think branch chain isomer ber la la isomerism is Tracey?
[speaker003:] Why me?
[Danny:] I'm not picking on, I just... this is to help you!... I like to help you.
[speaker003:] Don't be dirty Matthew!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] It's where you got the... er... the branch chains coming off of different positions.
[Danny:] different branch even!
[speaker003:] Oh!
[Danny:] Yeah, try to use the word position.
[speaker003:] Try not to or try to?
[Danny:] Try to use the wo, try not to use the word position.
[speaker003:] Oh alright.
[Danny:] Cos that takes you backwards.... It's things like this... er, five... my father's getting excited!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right... they are typical alkane... branch chain isomers.... They're the same molecular formula... the only way they differ is in the way the basic chain is structured.... They're all pentate.... This one you would just call pentate.... This one, your longest chain is a four chain so it's based on butane... and you have a methile group... on carbon number two, taking the lowest number... of carbon number two of that butane chain.... So this would be a two... methile... because if that's... butane... the methile butane.... This one here, your longest chain... is a propane chain, a three chain... we've now got two methile groups as substituants... what would you call that Matthew?
[speaker003:] Oh. [LAUGHTER] Methile. Oh God!
[Danny:] Robin? What on your nose?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] No!
[Danny:] Yo... you were looking at me Matthew... how can you be writing something down!
[speaker003:] ... that's the erm....
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] What do you think Matthew?
[speaker003:] Say it again cos I wasn't listening.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] What do you think Matthew?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] []!
[Danny:] Let's ask somebody else shall we?
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah.
[Danny:] Do you think that's a good idea, let's ask somebody ask somebody else let's ask Kieran.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Why doesn't he ever ask? Right, Oh God! Is it er Two two dash two methile
[Danny:] Two da, two comma
[speaker003:] comma... methile
[Danny:] So, what do you say then?
[speaker003:] Two comma, two... dash... methile die die methile [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Die methile
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right... you got it wrong!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Longest chain?
[speaker003:] Methile
[Danny:] die methile.... prop... pan
[speaker003:] melthane You know you put an E under the first one, do you have to?
[Danny:] No... you don't! You cannot put an E in front of this one!... That is not systematic momegliture... that has gone like that for ten years... universities still use it!... That is just called pentate... it is not called E M penta any more... equally you don't have sec... butile alcohol... turk... turt butile alcohol... they've been out for ten years!
[speaker003:] It looks good!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Alright?... Right, now that is just pentate... these are all pentates that is specifically... pentate.
[speaker003:] Phew!
[Danny:] Right, so that's an example of branch chain isomers.... Now, functional group isomers... what does this suggest Emma?... Don't you swallow that goldfish! Finish that up!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Penny saw them first!... Then, when you've done that.
[speaker003:] cruel!
[Danny:] Unless it's the golden wish! [LAUGHTER]... Sorry!... Emma!
[speaker003:] What was the question? What is fu fu functional group? Have a guess.
[Danny:] Well wha wha wha what do you think we mean by functional group isomerism?
[speaker003:] Erm... it means... they have the same functional group.
[Danny:] Er they do not, they in fact, have different functional groups.
[speaker003:] Okay, different functional groups.
[Danny:] Same molecular formula
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] different functional groups.... Yes.... So, for example this one here, very close to Keith and Trevor... this one here, the best possible thing we can give to... Matthew.... What do you think
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Uncle John... what's that top compound... what type of compound is it?... Aunty Tracey... that bottom compound, what type of compound is that?... Tricky actually!...
[speaker003:] Mm.
[Danny:] It's neither one thing or the other.
[speaker003:] Either one thing. Yeah, it's me, methile.
[Danny:] It's methile... yes
[speaker003:] methile
[Danny:] absolutely right! It's a methile.
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] So here we have... this what's, this what Stevie likes... it gives him his... his classic way of getting back at me!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] This is an alcohol... this is an ether... now... while we've got the opportunity we'll talk about the naming of ethers... before we get onto this... this last form of structural isomerism.... This... if that O H group was not there... the ethile...... it's an O H group so it's an alcohol, so you take off the E, add O L... and your positional number... is not required.... So, it would simply be... ethanol... for vodka, whisky, bacardi
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Ha []!
[Danny:] meths... Matthew!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Generally... industrial meths... is ethanol
[speaker003:] And it's got methanol in it as well.
[Danny:] Industrial meths is ethanol!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] What you're thinking of the pink stuff... has the methanol in it!
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] That's why you go blind if you drink it and that's where the term blind drunk comes from.... What is called industrial meths is... ethanol.
[speaker003:] And.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Because that's the old term that's been used for... however many years, and it's still used by industry.... Cos I did say earlier... that universities are behind in terms of this momegliture and so is industry.... So you still... you still buy it... it's actually butile alcohol.... But they're now ca, they're now catching up... they're now putting on the label... its proper name.... But Customs and Excise still call this industrial meths... unless it's pure etha, completely pure ethanol... in other words, no water in it... and then they can call it absolute alcohol... but they don't specify which alcohol it is look!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Got some... they've got some old terminology still around the organics, still in use around organics, it should be.
[speaker003:] And omit wherever you go.
[Danny:] Right, now... this thing here... what you have to e, do, have to do is to imagine... that it's an alkane... with... this oxygen containing group... butane.... Now, in this case, it doesn't matter which one I use because they're both exactly the same.... This... group here... the general group, if I put O R... and that R represents an alkyl... the general name is alkoxy.... If we specify what the R group is... in this case, it's a methile group... this would be called... methoxy... so there'll be methoxy group... is the substituant.... In this case... without it... this would be methane... so this would actually be called... methoxy... methane.... Some are chloro- methane is an... sort o, an analogy.... Methoxy methane.... That's where Stevie gets his oxy oxy ethane bit from.... Those of you who do biology, who does biology here?... Yeah, there's always one or two.... Those of you who do biology and have Stevie if you're ever ever bored... silly... right?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Like us
[Danny:] When you're bored bored at other times, let's put it that way... if he starts doing any bio-chemistry at all start as, start asking him about the proper names of... the systematic names of things... and you watch him bristle!
[speaker003:] He was talking about you yesterday. Yeah he was He said he thought had you behind him.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Really?
[speaker003:] What... what did he say?, he says zappy! He said dappy slappy!
[Danny:] No, I was trying to say was
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Oh no!
[Danny:] I, I'll talk to you about that later Emma actually. What I was trying to say was, if you're really bored with him... and he's doing is, any form of bio-chemistry start asking him about the correct names, what are they? Say it, you say it like that, what's the correct name? Cos straight away,yo, you're implying that he's wrong!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] And he really bristles!... His hair always stands up on end!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] It's brilliant!... And he starts going oh oxy oxy methane, and he stamps his feet!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] It's ever so funny! It really is comical!
[speaker003:] So you should do it?
[Danny:] That's right.... You have to get him wound down a bit, you have to do it, you know... of a... about half an hour or so... ask him for the proper name!... It's absolutely brilliant! He goes mad!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] He's you see,bu but after... about twenty minutes or so he loses touch with what's... what you're actually doing... and if, if you catch him just right... he goes berserk!... It's really funny!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Stamps his little feet!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] stamping feet
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Anyway... he's actually a good friend... he knows I say these sort of things about him... but erm... it's good!
[speaker003:] I'm gonna tell him!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right, so this' ll be called
[speaker003:] Yeah,.
[Danny:] this will be called methoxy methane.... Okay?... Now, that's and example of... functional group isomerism... what I'd like you to do now is to try and decide what these two things are called I'm gonna put on the board... and try and decide what you would call them in terms these general labels... under structural isomerism.... If I just draw the carbon skeleton.... Oh no, I, I'll put the hydros in for you as well because I'm... I'm helpful like that!... It says so in my C V! Right, now they're both ethers... try and name them first... in naming them... take the biggest hydro-carbon chunk that you can find... and pretend that that was an alkane... so the smaller chunk then becomes the substituant.... So, for example, in that first one... the longest chain you've got is a three... so it's a derivative... it's an oxy derivative of propane.... Once you've got the names... then decide what you think... what type of isomerism you think it actually is.... It's really weird!... And I'll give you the old name for it.... Alright?
[speaker003:] methoxy... pro propate.
[Danny:] Yeah... exactly right!... The first one is methoxy propate... in other words... you're saying, effectively, this group here wasn't... the longest chain you can get is a propate.... So... you got a methoxy group... so this one
[speaker003:] Page six.
[Danny:] is methoxy... propate.... Now what about this one?
[speaker003:] Mm. Ethoxy ethate, exactly right!... Exactly right, well done!
[Danny:] These are some of the most difficult, well it is... compound that student's don't... are extremely difficult to name!... And the, they're effectively fairly easy, don't do much on them... you won't, oh yeah, you meet ethers very much at all.... There was a time, I can remember I was at school... Cor!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Yes I can think that far back!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] So can Adam []!
[Danny:] Yes! No, I think I find it easiest, I remember when I was at school and you can't remember when you were last at college on time!
[speaker003:] Ooh!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Exactly!... Erm... I can actually remember making ether as a practical... I mean it's something you wouldn't dare even think about doing now!... Cos the stuff's actually lethal!... You know what I mean, it's a narcotic... it'll send some of you... more asleep than you already are!... Also it's
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] it's so inflammable... you go anywhere near a naked flame... sorry... flame
[speaker003:] What?
[Danny:] you don't even use... you don't even need to use a naked flame, you just need a hot surface... like Matthew's kneecap!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] And it ignites all on it's own!...... a terrible state!... Also... any of you go to university to do..., course you all will to some extent... cos you love chemistry so much!... It sits here.... We never ever distil ether without checking first that it doesn't contain incompoundable peroxides, organic peroxides which contain this and single bond... cos things explode!
[speaker003:] Yeah....
[Danny:] But yo, but luckily we had to check our bottles... to make sure there's no peroxides in them.... That's lethal stuff! Anyway now, what would you call it... Jason?
[speaker003:] I'd call it functional group isomers.
[Danny:] Justification?
[speaker003:] Because erm... the actual functional group on the end... it's only just... it's only just been moved
[Danny:] What is the fu ah, but what is, it's the wrong word! What is the functional group? I'm not having a go at you, don't be so sluggish! What is the functional group in ether? The functional group is a singly bonded option to two carbon atoms.
[speaker003:] Mm.
[Danny:] Which you've got in both.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] The methoxy and the ethoxy are not functional groups.... It's that arrangement of saturated carbon... oxygen... saturated carbons... that's the functional group.... Irrespective of ho, how many more carbons are attached... to those two carbons.... It's tricky!... Erm... uncle Stuart, long time no.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] What do you think Stuart? What would you call it?
[speaker003:] Well the only thing is
[Danny:] Speak up!
[speaker003:] The only real thing that seems to be changing... in... is the compound in position of the oxy [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Is this how you spoke in your interview then [LAUGHTER] Stuart []?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Yes, I'm awfully glad to be here!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] God I'm so excited at being able to come to study and
[speaker003:] That's right.
[Danny:] do my degree, I can hardly wait!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Oh my God! That's not fair!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] That's not fair! [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Why, do you speak and jog around
[Danny:] It would help! It would help! Calm down!
[speaker003:] Should have told him to his face.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Shut up!
[Danny:] Yes... go on what you were saying.
[speaker003:] Er... well you've totally made me miss my train of thought!... Er
[Danny:] That wasn't what you saying!
[speaker003:] Well you made me
[Danny:] You were saying, you were talking about positioning, about.
[speaker003:] You are moving the position of the oxygen... and although it isn't a er... a er... well no,... functional group?
[Danny:] No.... The function group is the fact that it's simply bonded to two carbons.
[speaker003:] And er
[Danny:] Which doesn't really help.
[speaker003:] Would it, would it influence... the er... compound by the.
[Danny:] That's right Stuart. The influence is the physical property but not the chemical one.... Ethers are ethers are ethers.
[speaker003:] Would a methile influence in the same way?
[Danny:] No. Yeah, as I've already said.
[speaker003:] Well then... the carbons you get is
[Danny:] What he's really saying is that he doesn't know the answer to the question!
[speaker003:] Well I've eliminated it's impossible
[Danny:] I know you're eliminating... yeah... and al... and also eliminating half the brain cells in the room!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] This is still Is that it?
[Danny:] Yes.
[speaker003:] he did actually say that.
[Danny:] Yeah, it is over now!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Back to normality!... No, I know what you're saying... er
[speaker003:] So it's not a positional isomer.
[Danny:] It's very difficult!... You can't really call it a positional isomer as such
[speaker003:] What about the bonding arrangement? Is it an isomer because... sort of
[Danny:] What?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Thank you.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] He's doing A level maths right
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] there's three there!
[speaker003:] Well there's four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten hydrogens... right...
[Danny:] Brian
[speaker003:] No!
[Danny:] Daniel
[speaker003:] Do it on your own!
[Danny:] Daniel, alright... Daniel can't add up to ten! Look I said
[speaker003:] Right wha Any of them could add up to ten!
[Danny:] Look, you see there... ah... he's got two different numbers of hydrogens up there!
[speaker003:] Yeah, well put me down!... Cos I'm in the right!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Well, there you are, that's it!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Who can count up to ten? Me. Without a calculator!
[Danny:] Without a calculator!
[speaker003:] It told you!
[Danny:] Right then
[speaker003:] That's what told me,
[Danny:] A level maths
[speaker003:] you could. Oh I don't really! A level sums! [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right, sums, the answer is The answer is... Matthew!
[speaker003:] Do you wanna keep it?
[Danny:] Is that, you can't really call it any of what we've seen up to now... not with any with full sort of... real... erm
[speaker003:] B F D it's called.... ain't the first diploma... B F D.
[Danny:] There is a word that's used, there's a term that's used for this sort of effect... this is the term it used to be called
[speaker003:] ....
[Danny:] Metamerism.
[speaker003:] It's a worm.... A worm.... [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] What's a, what's funny? It's a label that's all!... There's no joke there Chris!
[speaker003:] Yeah, these people will laugh at anything today!
[Danny:] Well they're su, they're stupid boys that's why!
[speaker003:] Say that again Can you slap then! all of them!
[Danny:] Can I slap all of them?
[speaker003:] Mm.
[Danny:] You only have to slap this end... and it passes along anyway!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Yeah, do it!
[Danny:] It won't do any damage cos Chris is in the middle!... You're like a buffer!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Buffer. hair. Well....
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Anyway, by the looks of it... there won't a, there ain't much longer... at least I kept mine for forty six years!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Mine's
[Danny:] Jus jus just brush it back, let's have a look see if there [LAUGHTER] is anything in there []!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Can't you brush it back together come on!... Good grief!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Cor!... It's like looking at the mirror innit?
[speaker003:] A receding hair line is a sign of intelligence.
[Danny:] Thanks Al!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Obviously...... obviously it's a genetic throwback with Chris, it's not worked with him!
[speaker003:] Oh! Ha ha!... Throw up, yeah!
[Danny:] Right
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] an used to be called... metermarism... and I say, it's not a word... it's not a term I've seen on for many many years... and you don't seen it many... erm... modern... organic texts. I think it's still around... and they've gotta call it something... if erm... if you think
[speaker003:] word.
[Danny:] Right now!... Stereo-isomerism next... exhausted... icuma
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] You ought to []! Not a lot!
[Danny:] We've exhausted the structural side of isomerism, now we can look at the stereo isomerism.... Now the stereo isomerism... is all about spatial chemistry, much more than... just the way things are attached.... Yes?... It's not just the way the things are attached together, joined together... it's more about the actual space... how they're arranged in space but.... There are two... forms of stereo isomerisms that we recognise... and don't forget, these labels are purely arbitrary.... The first one... is called geometrical isomerism... in some books... not that you ever read, will read any chemistry books... but just in case you stumble over one day... and fall flat on your face... and there happens to be a chemistry text book open... and you ha, just happen to read one or two of the words as you... go unconscious... and in Matthew's case if you wake up!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Geometrical isomerism is sometimes, or has sometimes been called... cis trans-isomerism.... It's not the right term to use... not really.... cis trans... c i s... and t r a n s..... They're laughing again are they?... If go like this to Daniel... you can slap them
[speaker003:] Don't be like that! actually! You're not allowed to slap!
[Danny:] You're not allowed to slap them? Why's that?
[speaker003:] My mum told me it was nude!
[Danny:] You're mum told you
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Yeah that's... that's naughty!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Bet he's gonna take!
[Danny:] Your mum told you what?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Yo, your mum told you to do it in the nude?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] I meant rude!
[Danny:] I was gonna say, when can I come round and see your mum?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Why is it rude to slap people Emma?... They deserve it! They're boys!
[speaker003:] slap you.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Maybe I should see behind!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right... geometrical isomerisms results when... you have... rotation... about a bond axis... prevented.... If you draw a normal carbon carbon single bond... which is a sigma bond... what's a sigma bond Daniel?
[speaker003:] It's where two
[Danny:] E T impression!
[speaker003:] Yeah... like that.
[Danny:] Yeah... end on overlap, lookalike Daniel but... I I'll take... I could be quite insulting but there you are!... End on overlap of the.... Now there's free rotation about that carbon carbon axis.... Now, the other type of overlap is lateral overlap... where the is always o, overlapping that way... and you try and rotate about that bond axis... you'll break the overlap.... And any double bond... will consist of... a sigma bond... and pie bond... and because you've got the pie bond there... it then restricts... rotation about that carbon carbon bond axis... and providing... you have... different groups here... different groups of, at each end... or just one in there at both ends... you can get two different isomers.... When the groups are attached on the same side... of the double bond, that shows... we use prefix cis dash... in front of the name.... So you've named it systematically... and then looked to see where the, the various groups were... and put cis in front... if you had that arrangement.... If they're opposite to each other the same type of idea, you've named it just one in... If you draw is
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] it used to be a rom of... calcite... or or a prism of calcite... which will do the job.... Nowadays, they have, obviously sca synthetic polymers... which would be er much more easier... the same sort of thing as they have in sunglasses.... So the light that actually comes out... will be vibrating... in specific planes, but not all planes... every plane in.... It will then go through a container... now that container, ultimately, will contain... this is why it's called a container!... Will ultimately go through the solution that you're looking at, in terms of optical activity... it comes out t'other end, cos light tends to do that, you know... it'll come t'other end... and at this end, after going through a length system etcetera, will be a an eyeball.
[speaker003:] Just one?
[Danny:] Just one.... Very difficult to look through to... through a lens with two eyeballs at the same time! Unless they are pre-mensile eyes you know, they sort of they come out, sort of go down together and be just above the... actual eyelid. Thank you for that... philosophical thought.
[speaker003:] It's alright.
[Danny:] Now, the way you use it, it varies... one way to use it... is to start with this empty... and you'll find that this... end here, the actual eyepiece... can be rotated, it has a scale... like as in fish, Stuart.
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Sorry!... You know the lines.
[speaker003:] Or as in weighing... you could have picked weighing scales as an example couldn't you?
[Danny:] Weighing scales.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Weighing scales!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Don't you the balance Stuart?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Weighing scales... ah well that's sad!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] That's really sad!
[speaker003:] Can I just talk to you about them ones?
[Danny:] I'd... don't do that again!... After I've heard their conversation for God's sake... you know, have a bit of heart!... Yes, that's what it means, it means weighing scales.... What he meant was a balance.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Erm... right if this... [LAUGHTER] you're enjoying this Mark aren't you?... Dunno why, they'll start me off now!... There are various ways of using them... one way, to look through... [LAUGHTER] which yo, which you have to to see the light, you know, otherwise you won't see it []!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Yes, Daniel it's true! Don't gasp in surprise! You do actually have to look through to see the light coming out! You look through and you rotate that eyepiece until you've either got... maximum brightness... cos you got a second polaroid system in there as well you see... you either get maximum brightness or complete... darkness.... What you then do... make a note of that... all that, as I read it to you... what you then do is to put your solution into that container... you have to otherwise it comes out the ends!... Put your solution into that container, that solution... is of a known concentration... this path then... is also known... Matthew!... This path then is also known... and in terms of accurate work, they also know the temperature... now I'm not sure if there's a temperature effect... on rotation, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was.... Anyway... you then look through it with the solution in and you'll find that if, for example, you started off with it... completely dark... you'll find it's then grey... cos the plane of light's been rotated, now it's... where there was no light getting through... now some of it is actually getting through, cos it's been rotated.... And so you then rotate the eyepiece, Christopher! You then rotate the eyepiece
[speaker003:] I was trying!
[Danny:] Yes but Danny's talking! It's Danny's turn! Well shut up then! Oh God!... You then rotate, oh look at this!... I really hate you Danny! Listen to this!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] He's totally []!
[Danny:] You then rotate the eyepiece so you get back to the condition that you had before.... So if you started off in complete darkness... you rotate until you get complete darkness... or the opposite.... And you measure the angle through which you've had to turn... to get to that position, and which direction you've had to turn it through... or rather, which direction... the light had been rotated... through.... Yeah?... And that gives you, something called, specific rotation... which will be a constant... for those conditions indicated and for that substance.... Now, one of them will rotate to the right, one will rotate to the left... what you need to be able to do is to identify the condition that will give... that give rise to optical isomers, in other words, to be able to say... yes, that molecule will have optical isomers.... Optical isomers are sometimes called... inentiamorse... if you have trouble with language... then we'll call them... inantipas... if you're a biologist you call them optical isomers.
[speaker003:] Actually we was just saying that.
[Danny:] That was just malicious!
[speaker003:] Slander!
[Danny:] Yep!
[speaker003:] What does it mean?
[Danny:] What... slander?
[speaker003:] No, inantiamorse or whatever it's called?
[Danny:] That's the name for optical isomers.... It's the posh name for... it's the one that chemist use! You know, optical isomers, alright?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] methane is punity
[Danny:] Right now you must be able to recognise in, either a structural formula or a condensed formula... you must be able to recognise existence of what is called... and asymmetric centre... if you are a chemist... kiral centre... if you are a super chemist... if you are a biologist... an atom bonded to different ones.... [LAUGHTER]... That's assuming there's biologist and chemist!...... [LAUGHTER]!
[speaker003:] Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] I'm a bush. Aye? That is a bush.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Does look strange []! [LAUGHTER] []!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] so... what you're looking for in any formula... shush daddy's talking Matthew!... What you're looking in any formula... say from... a carbon compound... you would be looking for that was bonded to four different groups, it doesn't matter what the groups are, it doesn't matter how big, how small they are
[speaker003:] And that one as well?
[Danny:] but they're bonded... to different groupings... so, for example, if one had something like this... er, let's call that see three, page seven... if I had something like that... that central carbon there... and when they draw these things at an exam paper, don't expect it to be the central one.... I could've actually drawn this quite differently... and maybe one of the carbons of on the side... yeah?... That carbon that I've got in the centre now... and the convention is to use a little star.
[speaker003:] Ah!
[Danny:] That's definitely bent!
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Put two in here... er, I get that sort of Christmassy spirit... building up
[speaker003:] Brandy... vodka Brandy? On the Christmas pudding! I thought it was a fairy!
[Danny:] Pardon?
[speaker003:] Get the. [LAUGHTER] I never []!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] He said brandy [].
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] little heart, bless her!... What's the, oh! No I won't ask!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Don't... so we use a little star... on the atom, and it may not always be carbon, cos we don't get... this sort of isomerism, indeed, like compounds as well.... Use a little star to indicate which is the asymmetric centre... which kiral centre... and all it means is that... if you were to dra, if you had a... a kiral... molecule... in other words, it had four different groups attached to it... what it means is that... it... and it's mirror image, this is the way you actually draw it and answer the questions... you draw... you draw it as if there was a mirror image.... That's why it's damn tricky to do it!... You draw it... to show that... it has a mirror image... so what you find in practice is that it... and it's mirror image are not superimposable.... In other words... like your hands... and feet... etcetera... they're mirror images... you can't... thank you...... they're mirror images that you can't superimpose.... You can't even superimpose to that extent... cos they're slightly different... can't even superimpose that my fingers... can't superimpose cos they're slightly different.... You actually make up a structure like this... tetraneedle carbon... we did have another one... but er, obviously there's some students... have erm... decided to do... something different with the er... things... that's all that's left!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Not funny Kieran!... Here I'm holding... hand, model, model hand!... Here I am holding... a model of a tetraneedle carbon... in four different groups of ten... and here is it's mirror image.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] It's been a!
[Danny:] It was!... Honest!... That was it's mirror image!
[speaker003:] So that's been changed out of that.
[Danny:] Pardon?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right, and there's... not really enough! I mean... gotta pretend there's another one of these there!... But there would of been!... There's it's mirror image... and what you will find is that you can superimpose... side by side... and two, any two of those atoms there... those groups... but then, straight away the other two are out of position... the other two have reversed.... So if I take this one and put this one... I can superimpose the red... straight away I've superimposed a group, but look... the blue and re, and the white... are out.
[speaker003:] Ah!
[Danny:] Watch, see it goes.... Can you see that?
[speaker003:] No.
[Danny:] It's sad innit?... Or I can superimpose the green one
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Notice now that the white one... the two white ones are superimposed but now look... the two reds and the two blues are now... not superimposed any longer.... That's what we mean by non-superimposed. Tracey's trying to work out how a, bless her!... I know I've only got one left, yeah.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] But it would have been a.
[speaker003:] Yeah, shut up!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Oh, I'm tired!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] So... optical isomerism results...
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Optical isomerism results... when a structure and it's mirror image are non-superimposable.... Right? This takes us to four fifteen.... I know that cos it says so on here.
[speaker003:] It might be wrong!
[Danny:] What I wanted to do today was to start to talk about... mechanisms... but I think I've exhausted my erm... what's the word I'm looking for? Pardon?
[speaker003:] Ooh!
[Danny:] What was that? Pardon?
[speaker003:] Gangrene.
[Danny:] I didn't hear you then!... What we'll do is we'll leave it at that, that doesn't mean your going anywhere!... Now, are there any aspects about the isomerism you want clarifying apart from the whole lot?
[speaker003:] Do that one again. That last one you just did... I didn't understand a word No. of that!
[Danny:] Well the thing to do... maybe I should have a word with him.
[speaker003:] Well I understand where you got that
[Danny:] Now be subtle about it!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Your explanation was a load of crap mate!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] No, Danny, I want to know about it right? But I don't understand what you just said then.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Ooh, now you've made him mad! Ooh ooh ooh!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] I needed some!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Tones really with his shirt!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Can he turn greener than his shirt!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Can you specifically make a different erm... er... optical isomers.
[Danny:] You can... to some extent
[speaker003:] What about
[Danny:] When you When the chemical reactions very often the two that are produced... erm... well usually, when you ca, come into reactions and materials that are produced... are a mixture of both isomers.... In other words, usually the chemistry is non selective.... Yeah?... If both isomers are being formed.... Tha, that by the way, is called a racenate... or the
[speaker003:] Is this
[Danny:] racemic mixture.
[speaker003:] A what a... r racenate?
[Danny:] A racenate, r a c e n a t e or racemic mixture.
[speaker003:] What about this though?
[Danny:] Hang on!... That's, that's geometrical.
[speaker003:] Said, yeah, but you can have....
[Danny:] To some extent you can, yeah.
[speaker003:] It's a mixture of the
[Danny:] But with optical you try to produce a particular isomer, what you normally
[speaker003:] Have you?
[Danny:] get is the racemic mixture... in other words, both are there... but it has no... ah!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Both are there... but it has no effect on plane polarised light, for instance, like, as if one of them is trying to rotate it to the left... by so many degrees... and the other one is rotating to the right by the said the amount.... So that they, they can only... twenty.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] What we can do now... we can use systems to, once we've got the racemic mixture... we can use systems to... separate that racemic mixture.... We can also use biological systems... to separate them... because biological systems, like protein synthesis and things like that... are very selective... in terms of the one they... the, the isomer they will pick up.... If they do happen to pick up the wrong isomer... erm, these isomers by the way, you'll find things put in front of them like... you often find a little d... or a little l... in front of the name... it means dextarosatory... rotated to the right... and leverosatory
[speaker003:] Lever?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] Alright, I'll get out the way then []!
[Danny:] leverosatory... rotating to the left... you find these... this prefix appearing in front of a name if it's... the compound is optically active.... If it's a racemic mixture... you sometimes find... saying that both are there.... Biological systems tend... to normally pick up a particular isomer... in most cases, if they pick up the wrong one... it will affect, for example the protein chain... it will affect, ultimately, its three dimensional structure... and therefore, it's function.... Now, it may or not me noticeable... if it's a minor alteration in the surface geometry... then... it may be so slight as to make no difference in the way it performs... so if, for example, it's an enzyme... it may not affect it at all.... But in some cases the... having a different isomer can affect the three dimensional properties in such a way... that it will no longer function efficiently... as an enzyme... as a catalyst... to the reaction it's supposed to catalyse... then you start to get problems.... So some genetic problems are a result... or a, shown to be the result of a wrong... amino acid being incorporated into the protein chain... and therefore repricated... and on and on and on.... But we can now use biological systems to actually separate them... and actually select... particular... isomers.... But normally... chemically speaking, when a particular reaction takes ta, careful of those Emma!... [shouting] Emma!... Take the pen out of your nose [] dear, thank you!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] She's now sucking the end of the pen!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] At least it wasn't stuck up the bum!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Erm... chemically speaking, if you carry out a reaction... which can produce an optically active compound, you would normally the recenate... and then you have to separate by either chemical method or the physical method... and it's usually not very easy.... If you're gonna separate chemically, say for example, you produced erm... an organic acid which is optically active... the things you would normally have to do... is to use a base... to make the salt... of, you know, you make the two optically salt... and then separate them by a thing such as fractional crystallisation... and then we generate the acid afterwards... very very tricky!... Not as tricky as the original one... this effect was discovered, I think, by Pasteur... in tartaric acid... and he happened to notice, he had a proper tartaric acid crystals.... That's the sort of question to ask Stevie, by the way... he says tartaric acid, ask him for it's proper chemical name.
[speaker003:] What is it?
[Danny:] I dunno.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] It loops... it goes down a bit.... Anyway... he happened to notice, God knows how, like, cos this cry, the crystals you used were quite small!... He happened to notice that there were crystals which appeared to be mirror images of each other.... And so, it goes beyond the actual molecular stage... if you can have this compound in crystallised form, as you can most... though you might have to reduce the temperature or whatever, but then... all is gone... gone crystalline eventually... you'll find their crystals are also mirror images... and what he actually did, he painstakingly picked out crystals... which were of one particular shape as opposed to the other, he actually separated all the crystals physically... by using tweezers... and then found that they ha, you know, the two had a different affect on plane polarised light.... Incredible!... Now, in answer to your question Christopher
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] I've now made... single handedly... cos I'm like that... single handed!
[speaker003:] You didn't have one ready or anything?
[Danny:] I did, but some students... took it bits!... [shouting] I now have []... a molecule of this... there it was... there again, now it's back in again...... and out... now they're gone... now they're back!
[speaker003:] It's magic!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] [shouting] What I have here []... is... are... mirror images... alright?... Complete mirror images, yes?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] Now, you find that those mirror images are not superimposable... so I can... in order to superimpose the red and the white... if only I can... on doing that, straight away the blue and the green... are non-superimposable.... So those two things would be optical isomers... one would rotate the plane of polarised light... to the left... the other would rotate the plane of polarised light... to the right.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Cor,!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Trying to up it.
[Danny:] Yeah?
[speaker003:] Yeah... I think I got that.
[Danny:] Any other questions?... Price of fish, meaning of life?... When you've finished the class?
[speaker003:] What is erm... erm, the meaning of life? Can we do it?
[Danny:] Thirty eight and half.... Thirty eight point five.
[speaker003:] The meaning of life?
[Danny:] Yeah!
[speaker003:] No, it's forty two. Forty two.
[Danny:] Thirty eight point five. I have it on... good assurance...
[speaker003:] It's thirty two.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] He thinks your mad!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] actually!
[Danny:] Any other... er, dunno where you're going, it's not time yet! Let's spin this out to the last possible second.
[speaker003:] It means, like thirty eight point five. I know!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right, any other questions about what we've done today?
[speaker003:] Oh! Nuclear cis trans... can you have, say, with two b's and one carbon?
[Danny:] Can what?
[speaker003:] Can you have the two b... b's and one carbon?
[Danny:] No, because then you won't get... isomers.... That won't be ota, they won't be erm... geometrical isomers.... Now if you, and if you rotate one
[speaker003:] oh yeah it's in
[Danny:] you get the other one.
[speaker003:] positional innit? Yeah. You keep changing the carbon.
[Danny:] Anything else?
[speaker003:] I must just say to yo, you're dying to ask, like what he's doing over the corner? Not a lot!
[Danny:] I, I feel sorry for you, you mis, obviously a second time being in contact with Daniel!
[speaker003:] Yeah, he is quite a shock! Kenton knows
[Danny:] Kenton's a real
[speaker003:] He still does nothing!
[Danny:] That's right!... He was talking about you before you came out actually.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] He was!
[speaker003:] You should have been here early Kenton I missed your presence! [LAUGHTER] Excuse me []!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] Right, anybody else at all?
[speaker003:] What's that noise?
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] That's on B B C one. What's that noise? It sounds like a cat when it plays up!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] I worry about you sometimes Emma! I... I really do worry about you!... Who saw the Mary Whitehouse Experience?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[Danny:] Who saw Kermit... vomiting in his pint glass!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] [LAUGHTER] I didn't []!
[Danny:] Really... the only thing I was disappointed about is that he didn't drink it again!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] If that had been a true man he'd have drunk it again afterwards!
[speaker003:] But he's not a man!
[Danny:] Waste not want not!
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[Danny:] That's very true! But he thinks he's a man doesn't he?
[speaker003:] Kermit's a transsexual.
[speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]
[speaker003:] Emma knows that!...! I think we leave now.
[Danny:] I think that's probably a very good place to leave!... Thank you for allowing me to.....