[speaker001:] Okay uh Agnes, you can help me for the slide when [gap]
[speaker003:] Yep. Sure.
[speaker001:] okay. Okay, welcome back. I hope uh you have a fresh head and a fresh time. How t now the meeting actually we gathering here to discuss about the functional design meeting. Okay, and uh we'll issue some information from uh all of you. And it's in the, I think uh, in the sharing folder. And uh I will invite uh the Christine and the Ed and uh Agnes to discuss about on the various subjects. So can you go to the next slide? Yeah uh the agenda of the meeting is opening. Then uh I'm going to talk about uh the project management, what I'm going to do, and uh, of course, I'm doing the project management and secretary both, okay, to take the minutes of the meeting. And there are three presentations. One is uh new project requirements. And the second one about uh decision on remote control functions. And uh finally we are closing. Uh and the meeting time will be uh forty minutes, so you have to be very quick. And I have come up with the [disfmarker] management come with the new proposal, okay, and I have to discuss a few points on this. Uh both says new insights in the aim of your project. Uh the one is uh the teletext becomes uh outmoded, okay because if uh because of the computer systems and the new technology. So we don't need to consider really about the teletext all in our new project design. And the second one is about uh the remote control. Should be used only for the TV. That's what our uh management says. And the third point, it's very very important to establish our uh marketing or uh corporate image, okay, with this new project or new product. Okay. [vocalsound] So I will invite uh [disfmarker] Agnes, can you go to the third slide?
[speaker003:] No, this is the third slide.
[speaker001:] Okay, [gap]. So, I'll invite uh Christine to discuss about uh the functional design.
[speaker002:] 'Kay, do you wanna open the [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Sure. Um. You're participant s
[speaker002:] I'm number two.
[speaker003:] Two?
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] That's it.
[speaker003:] Do you want the mouse, or do you want me to [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] I'll do the notes. Yeah, thanks.
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] So um well I I figured uh we should um identify some user requirements, and from my experience, I wanna uh, and from [vocalsound] research I did, uh the the device has to turn the television on and off the first time you press on the big button, you can't uh can't have like uh waffling on this point, you know.
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] Really have [disfmarker] It needs to be able y y have to be able to find it. Because one of the biggest problems with remote controls is finding them. So uh, I also, since we have to establish our corporate image on the basis of this new product, thought we better look at things that are popular and um ex go beyond those, and, as I said in the first meeting, um [vocalsound] and then uh we might wanna talk eventually about the materials that are appropriate to use in uh in the construction, especially in the the uh the outside of the product
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] so that it gives the appearance, and it is reliable, and so forth. [vocalsound] I did a little history on uh the the uh remote controls and when they were invented and so forth, so, I guess this guy Zenith uh created the Flashmatic, which I kinda like the idea, 'cause it made me think of um um maybe the remote control made a big flash when uh you turn the TV on and off, that might be interesting. And um [vocalsound] so it was highly directional flash light that uh you could turn the picture on and off, and the sound on and off, and change channels c so I think um those are still requirements we have today, uh fifty years later.
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] Mm-hmm.
[speaker002:] And uh it was really a pioneering innovation, but it was uh sensitive to the sun, so that uh it would get [disfmarker] would start off by the [disfmarker] you'd get [disfmarker] it would easily cause um problems. So, uh I [disfmarker] in addition to uh looking at the um [vocalsound] uh the functional requir so all these devices are examples of where uh mm [disfmarker] they [vocalsound] represent examples that are available today [vocalsound] [vocalsound] which I think the one in the middle is r um really uh something to keep in mind.
[speaker004:] Fantastic. [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] [vocalsound] [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] It'd be easy to find. And um it would uh y you'd [vocalsound] [disfmarker] you could throw it at things if if the TV didn't turn on and off, you could use it for something else. And since I'm not really um [vocalsound] Industrial Designer, I didn't really know what to do with this slide. But um [vocalsound] I just [vocalsound] took some [vocalsound] different uh schematics and I put them into this, and I guess this is what a slide might look like if you were drawing a circuit board. [gap] I don't know why um we were asked to do this. So, uh [vocalsound] personal preferences, [vocalsound] um
[speaker003:] [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] I think we could uh I I'm really thinking outside the box here, and I think that we should consider perhaps having an an an a a size uh [vocalsound] [disfmarker] a remote control that changes in size depending on the user preference.
[speaker003:] [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] So something that's very very flexible and inflatable and then you could shrink it. I think um it could either be [disfmarker] you could go either one extreme, be very colourful, or you could make it clear, and um kind of blend in with things, so you didn't have to um [vocalsound] uh have a problem with the th the decoration of the [disfmarker] of the user's home. Um I think uh it needs to be waterproof, because uh sometimes they fall into cups and, you know,
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] it might be out by the swimming pool or something like that. Um [vocalsound] if you uh mi one of [disfmarker] one of my requirements was about needs t to tell you when it's done its job or not, because half the time, I keep pushing on the remote control, and I don't know if it's actually understood my message, so I think it should give you some sort of an oral cue. And uh, course I never wanna replace the battery.
[speaker004:] [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] [vocalsound] So, that's [disfmarker] those are my f preferences, and that's my presentation.
[speaker001:] Yeah, let me uh interrupt you uh if you can add other facility, other feature, like uh unbreakable.
[speaker002:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Okay, because uh especially today, you know, you have the family and the kids,
[speaker003:] [vocalsound]
[speaker001:] okay, and the kids throw it and they they play with their remotes
[speaker002:] Run over it with a car.
[speaker001:] and [gap]. Yes. Okay, so if you can add the feature, okay, for your uh fabric whatever in your outline design okay, with unbreakable, okay, I think that will give a lot of advantage for our product,
[speaker002:] Good idea. Good idea,
[speaker001:] if I'm not wrong. Maybe you can uh add it in that.
[speaker002:] I'll I'll uh um [disfmarker] Yes, very good.
[speaker001:] Okay, uh thank you Christine, and uh uh any questions or uh clarifications, or any discussion on the functional design?
[speaker003:] Do you have any preconceived ideas in terms of materials? 'Cause, for example, in the unbreakable thing, doing something plastic would be harder, whereas having something like, I dunno, steel or titanium isn't really economically viable. [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] Hmm. Titanium. Titanium would be [vocalsound] be heavy, too,
[speaker004:] Titanium. [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] wouldn't it?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] No, I haven't really um [disfmarker] I wanted feedback, I think we need to rate [disfmarker] rank these,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] but we'll see what your uh personal preferences are and your thoughts.
[speaker003:] Sure, yeah. No, I just wondering whether [disfmarker] that you had any sort of [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] [vocalsound] I like titanium. It's light.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Expensive.
[speaker002:] Uh [vocalsound] yeah
[speaker003:] [vocalsound] The marketing comes out. [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] but uh who who said [disfmarker] who said we were,
[speaker004:] [vocalsound]
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker002:] you know, nobody told me how mu what our financial objective is, so um [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] [vocalsound] Yeah so [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] It'd be hard to inflate something ou made out of titanium though [vocalsound].
[speaker001:] Yeah the the [disfmarker] I'm sorry
[speaker003:] [vocalsound]
[speaker004:] [vocalsound]
[speaker001:] because uh the last meeting we supposed to discuss about the financial thing. Uh let me go quickly, maybe if I can go back [vocalsound]. I know the project plan and the budget. So I can close this, [gap] not sure. Was in uh [disfmarker] S This. So let me see where is this file.
[speaker003:] That's Christine's.
[speaker001:] This is Christine. [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] And that's mine, I think.
[speaker001:] That's yours, okay. Saving.
[speaker004:] [vocalsound] [gap]
[speaker003:] In modified.
[speaker004:] I don't know, I think verbally we can [disfmarker] we can pretty much sell.
[speaker001:] Okay, uh I will [disfmarker] I will send you a mail, okay? The project may be the the project aim, okay. At the end of the day, the company uh wants to make at least uh the fifty million Euro. Okay, and uh of course the price will be very reasonable on the the sales side. Okay, that maybe Eddie will talk to you about uh how much uh the price and uh what's uh [disfmarker] how much its cost for the manufacturing and how much it's going to be [disfmarker] we sell in the market. Okay. Then uh you can come back with your feedback. And I I have one [disfmarker] maybe the suggestion or opinion. This remote control, okay, it can be for like universal, to use for any TV. Okay, and it will be slim, okay,
[speaker002:] [vocalsound] Not fat?
[speaker001:] and uh [disfmarker] Not fat.
[speaker002:] Not fat, huh.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker002:] [vocalsound] Might be hard to find, though.
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] But let's try it, okay, with the different uh [disfmarker] the designs, okay, the functional designs.
[speaker002:] Oh, okay.
[speaker001:] Okay? So any other questions?
[speaker004:] Uh from her side, I don't think uh there's too many more questions.
[speaker001:] Okay.
[speaker004:] If you can come to the [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Thank you Christine for uh time being, so then uh Ed, so can you tell about [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Okay, from the marketing [disfmarker] yeah, from the marketing side, just to to give an idea what the management is looking for, I was looking for a a remote control to have a s
[speaker003:] S 'scuse me for one sec.
[speaker004:] I have a sales price of twenty-five Euro, with a production price of uh twelve and a half Euro. For what uh I think from what we're trying to find, we're tr we're looking for, I don't think that price is exactly in the market. Okay?
[speaker001:] Mm-hmm.
[speaker004:] I'll explain myself here now in the sense that uh in a [disfmarker] in the recent surveys, uh from the ages [disfmarker] fr from fifteen to thirty-five, eighty percent are willing to spend more money for something as fancy as trendy.
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker004:] Twenty-five Euros, uh that's that's a preson reasonable price. That's a market price right now. Now if we're gonna take a risk, and push this up a bit, make it more expensive,
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker004:] but give them added things that they don't have now,
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker004:] then it w it could possibly sell. Obviously the risk is there. Too expensive, they're not gonna buy. But, I think uh there's one other thing interesting [disfmarker] two things that are interesting [gap] is that uh from the fifteen to thirty-five year-old group, which always spends more money on trendy new things, speech recognition is requested.
[speaker002:] [vocalsound] Speech recognition?.
[speaker004:] And we're talking between seventy-five to ninety percent of this group is willing to pay for speech recognition on a remote.
[speaker001:] Mm-hmm.
[speaker004:] Obviously, we can't make a remote into a computer, but maybe simple commands. I dunno, louder, softer, on, off. That might be a possibility, even though it costs more, to be the first on the market to produce this.
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker004:] Thirty-five percent say they're too difficult to use. So we have to figure out a way of making it um more user friendly. [vocalsound] Uh fifty percent say they can't find the remote half the time. [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] [vocalsound]
[speaker004:] So maybe one word speech recognition commands, say remote, and there's a beep beep beep, and they can find it through, you know, ten tons of newspapers, magazines, whatever you have at home.
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker004:] But, in the cost that uh the management is looking for, that's not gonna be possible. But if it's trendy, if it's fancy, it's got some colour to it, if it's very easy [disfmarker] easy to use, if it's got simple remote [disfmarker] speech remote uh control, like I said, louder, softer, change channel, on, off, remote, it goes beep beep, I can find my my remote without spending half a day looking for it and getting all upset 'cause I can't turn the TV on. So we're gonna have to look at it in a [vocalsound] in this global idea, with the ideas of the industrial uh design.
[speaker001:] [vocalsound]
[speaker004:] But, price obviously we have to talk about.
[speaker001:] Yep. So what do you think about uh the design [gap]? Do you think you can make it or uh [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] D uh I'm sorry? [vocalsound]
[speaker001:] What do you think about uh the design, uh what he was talking about [disfmarker] of the speech recognition?
[speaker004:] Speech recognition.
[speaker002:] [vocalsound] Well, uh training is always an issue with uh commands.
[speaker001:] Mm-hmm.
[speaker002:] So um [disfmarker] might uh [disfmarker] we can perhaps um [vocalsound] do it if the user is willing to spend some time in the training process, uh it could reduce th th uh the overall um cost. Not sure how. [vocalsound] But um anyway, um [vocalsound] I I think also that uh this might impact the battery life. And um so, maybe what we'll have to do is um add something where you can um recharge it wirelessly so that uh [vocalsound] y you know sen send power to it. So uh or maybe uh set it out in the sun and it uh, you know, gets uh, from the light, um a a solar cell inside there
[speaker003:] Hmm.
[speaker002:] so that uh you have enough uh juice to do all these fancy things.
[speaker003:] It seems also like with the speech recognition, yeah, it's a great feature, but if you're watching TV, there's a lot of ambient sound, and it's words. It's not just, you know, noises like something hitting. It's actual speech, so then you have to make sure that the speech recognizer is good enough to filter out the TV speech, and the the user's speech. Otherwise, you can say remote.
[speaker002:] Off. [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] But if someone on the screen is saying the same thing, all of a sudden, you have someone in a movie saying off and your screen dies, because they've triggered the remote control and it's turned off your TV. [vocalsound] So, I think if we can find a speech recognizer that can handle those types of problems, then yeah, it'd be a really good marketing gimmick.
[speaker004:] Mm.
[speaker003:] But, I think we seriously need to consider how that would impact the situation.
[speaker002:] Very good point.
[speaker004:] Because tha w [vocalsound] with speech recognition uh th I'm not that good at that idea but th [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] Mm-hmm.
[speaker004:] if it's a one-word recognition, 'cause I know with telephones and cars and things I've seen in the States,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] [gap] a friend of mine says call Mom, and it calls up Mom.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] 'Kay the radio can be on and everything.
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker004:] Because I think s with speech recognition, if uh the the remote or like the telephone [vocalsound] [disfmarker] it has a exact word that it has to hear.
[speaker003:] Mm-hmm.
[speaker004:] I don't think it would come through a sentence in a television. If somebody's speaking on the se the television, they're not gonna stop and say remote, okay.
[speaker003:] Mm-hmm.
[speaker004:] So I think that uh something could be designed to recognise single word [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Oh yeah. Yeah.
[speaker004:] Like the t like the telephone.
[speaker003:] No, I think it's a great idea if we can design it to to suit those requirements.
[speaker004:] No because I [gap] this is this is years ago in the United States where we're driving down and he said call home, and the telephone called immediately [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] Yeah. [vocalsound]
[speaker004:] so well, that's kinda cute. [vocalsound]
[speaker001:] Well, what I can uh suggest to you, Christine, okay, uh if you need some uh [disfmarker] the technical feedback, or some training, okay, about uh this facility, especially for the speech recognition, I can recommend you some companies like uh Intel or IBM, okay, because they're already in this uh speech recognition part, okay. And uh you can maybe have some uh technical backup from them, some kind of a technical tie-up. Okay, and uh if you want, I can coordinate, okay, to get some information, okay, and uh you can uh let me know, okay, so what kind of uh the details you require okay, to add this feature in this project. I don't think it's uh the difficult. And uh we need to know how much is the timeframe you need to develop, apart from uh what [gap] today.
[speaker002:] Okay, we'll find that out.
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker004:] From from your side uh, you're gonna have to go back the management and s be more s precise.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker004:] What do they want?
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker004:] Uh [vocalsound], a risk, take a risk on the market? Something that's gonna cost more, but could very easily s make a boom in the market?
[speaker001:] Yes. Yep.
[speaker004:] Because it has to be something totally different, has to be total totally new. Something that nobody has right now.
[speaker001:] Yeah but
[speaker004:] And it's gonna cost.
[speaker001:] but end of the day, you're the sales guy, so I will come back and sit on your head because uh you are going to give your sales projection,
[speaker004:] [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] [vocalsound]
[speaker001:] okay. It's uh of course it's uh good to uh tell the management how much it's cost us
[speaker004:] Mm-hmm.
[speaker001:] and how much you are going to benefit,
[speaker004:] Sure. Sure.
[speaker001:] okay. And uh, so I don't mind to convince, okay, the management to spend some more money on the project, okay, if you can make out of
[speaker004:] Obviously.
[speaker001:] the money from this project.
[speaker004:] If the bottom line is positive. [vocalsound]
[speaker001:] Yes, okay
[speaker003:] [vocalsound]
[speaker001:] I don't mind to convince the the management,
[speaker004:] Mm.
[speaker001:] okay. The management says, okay, so they they don't want certain facilities, which it's already worked, okay, they want something uh new, okay. I think uh like uh speech recognit definitely they will agree, I don't think they'll say no for that, okay. And uh I hope I can convince the management on that, okay. So if you have any uh new ideas, okay, for uh your [disfmarker] you can always come up and uh you can tell me if you need any uh s special, okay, coordination, okay, between any uh technical companies, which you can uh hide their technology backup, okay, for your uh functional design or technical design, okay, then I am ready to do that. And uh what's your comments about uh [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Um well, I mean, maybe if I go through my presentation, you can sort of see what the user perspective is, and how it ties into the other two comments.
[speaker004:] Mm.
[speaker001:] Yeah, so you are finish, Ed, uh so I can uh [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yes. Mm.
[speaker001:] Okay, I'll uh hand over to Agnes. Just gonna close this. T Uh where are you, here?
[speaker003:] Mm participant three.
[speaker001:] Participant three.
[speaker003:] Nope, here [gap]
[speaker001:] Okay, so I'll [disfmarker] yep. Okay.
[speaker003:] Good. Thanks.
[speaker001:] Is it okay? Alri
[speaker003:] Yeah, and that's fine. Okay. So, basically, the method that we usually use in the user interface design is that we need to look at what people like and what people don't like about existing products. So, in our case, existing remote controls. And then, what the good ideas are, and what the bad ideas are, and why they're bad and good, which isn't always as obvious. We seem to have intuitions about why things are good or things are bad, but when you look, technically, at how it works, sometimes that's not the case. Then we need to decide what functionalities we really want to keep, 'cause that'll feed into both Ed's work and Christine's work. Um and then what the remote control should look like, obviously, once we've got a good idea of what the functionalities are. So, in terms of the functionalities that we need, you obviously need to be able to turn the TV on and off. You need to change channels, both by directly going to a specific channel or by channel surfing. You need to be able to control the volume and then control any menus on the TV to regulate contrast or whatever. So, the problems that people have expressed is that there's too many buttons on remote controls, in general. The buttons [disfmarker] it's not clear what they're supposed to do. Um often, you need to know specific button sequences [vocalsound] to get certain functionalities done, um which you don't necessarily always remember, especially if it's a functionality that you don't use very often. And that the buttons are too small. So, here we've got two examples where here on the left-hand side, you can see a remote control that has lots and lots of buttons. The buttons, in a lot of cases, are tiny.
[speaker002:] [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] Um they're hard to see, and okay, they're labelled, but the labels don't necessarily tell you too much. Whereas, on the other side, you have a much simpler remote control that I think basically has the minimum functionalities [vocalsound] that are needed. And it sort of looks simpler and just less imposing when you first look at it. So, I would be inclined to go sort of towards this, in terms of design, rather than this. And if there's specific functionalities that require more buttons, then we can figure out how to do it with existing um buttons. So my personal preferences are to keep the number of buttons to a limit, or to a minimum, sorry, make frequently used buttons bigger and more strategically placed, so like the on button being really obvious one, the channel changing and the volume, and to keep the design basically sleek and simple.
[speaker001:] Click mm.
[speaker003:] Which, I think ties into what Christine and Ed have both said fairly reasonably. Um so, that's pretty much it, an I don't know if you guys have any questions or [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Oh, it's um, seems [vocalsound] very understandable. Clearly your research and uh [disfmarker] and ours uh heading in the same direction,
[speaker003:] Yep.
[speaker002:] and um uh the only thing that I saw missing from uh your your research that we found was this uh ability to find the doggone thing when you need it.
[speaker004:] [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] Yes, that's true. Yeah.
[speaker002:] So uh, you know, but that's okay. That's why we're all here at the table, so that if we think of it and our research indicates certain things and um w we it's complementary.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] I also think that um uh th f the the feel of it is uh, when you hold it, is something that um uh was expressed more in in in in my uh design
[speaker003:] Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[speaker002:] and that's logical and normal 'cause those are the parameters that an Industrial Designer's more thinking about, th th the look and the feel,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and uh, you're [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Oh, that's definitely a very important factor, especially to users who are gonna be buying the thing and then using it almost on an [disfmarker] daily basis in a lot of cases, I think.
[speaker002:] First. Yep. Mm-hmm. [vocalsound] Okay, so I don't have any questions. Sounds good.
[speaker001:] So [vocalsound] for anybody need uh any help, for time being, on this uh subjects, okay, so please come back to me,
[speaker003:] Oh [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] and uh Christine, maybe I can uh try to help you to get some uh the technical uh the companies to help you for uh make a design uh slim, okay, and to add some features, like we are talking about, the speech recognition and all.
[speaker003:] Should we maybe make a decision about what features we actually want to include,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] 'cause we've thrown a lot of features onto the table, but do we actually want to incorporate all of them, or have we missed anything?
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker002:] Do you wanna go back and look at the closing slide, maybe that would provide some guidance?
[speaker003:] Sure.
[speaker002:] Doesn't really tell us.
[speaker001:] So not really this one we are talk ab
[speaker004:] Individual actions. [vocalsound]
[speaker002:] Well it says individual actions, it says user interf
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker002:] so I'm supposed to do the components concept, supposed to work on the user interface concept,
[speaker003:] Mm-hmm.
[speaker002:] and you're supposed to keep watching the trends. Um and specific instructions will be sent by our our coach. I think we should [vocalsound] do as many features as uh [disfmarker] start with all of them right now
[speaker003:] I thought [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] and eliminate them later in the process, that's my suggestion.
[speaker001:] Okay, that will be great. [vocalsound] And uh I'll send you the the minutes of meet
[speaker002:] [vocalsound] You can object if you want to [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] No,
[speaker004:] [vocalsound] She's objecting. [vocalsound]
[speaker003:] I I'm just thinking in terms of time, like if [disfmarker] [vocalsound] Yes, now I'm objecting.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] No, I mean, I was just thinking is it really practical to start designing something with features that we're just gonna end up throwing away? I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort for everyone to consider different features, um and s if we spend that time and effort on features that we're not gonna use, maybe it's better to spend it on the f thinking more about features that we actually do want, but [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Oh th [vocalsound] we s we still have [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] I think we should take that as an action item for after the meeting,
[speaker003:] guess [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] 'cause w our meeting time has run out.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Right.
[speaker002:] Somebody else has go to use this room,
[speaker003:] Sure.
[speaker002:] and, you know, we can't hang out here
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and talk about this, so [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah. Sure.
[speaker001:] Okay, what we'll do is now we'll take for lunch break, okay, then uh we can discuss furthermore, okay, with our areas, and uh then we will come back again in the [disfmarker] in the next meeting. So thanks for coming and uh I'll send you minutes of meeting, and uh please put your all information in the sharing folder so everybody can share the information. Okay?
[speaker003:] Okay.
[speaker001:] So let's go for lunch then.
[speaker002:] Thank you very much.
[speaker004:] Agreed. [vocalsound]
[speaker001:] Thank you.