[speaker006:] OK. Um, w would you mind telling me again, please? Oh, he's gonna write it. OK. Now, if the batteries were to go out during the meeting, there's really [disfmarker] what do we do? Do we have batteries back there? OK. OK. And you'll be in your office during this? Oh, thank you very much. Thanks a lot.
[speaker001:] What's [disfmarker] so what do we do with this?
[speaker006:] Appreciate it. Could you close the door for me please?
[speaker001:] Anything?
[speaker002:] Just put your name on it, I think.
[speaker001:] Oh, OK.
[speaker006:] OK, thanks.
[speaker002:] Uh huh.
[speaker006:] So, thanks very much for coming. OK. So um [disfmarker] let's see, so, um, as you know, the meeting today is to, um, [@ @] [comment] benefit from your involvement in the data, all the things that [disfmarker] that you've been exposed to in these many months. And um, I just [disfmarker] I just put down some ideas [disfmarker] you've seen some of this in the email that I sent out earlier. And, um,
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] none of these [disfmarker] these are not obligatory toca topics but they're just things that I thought might be useful to discuss, just as a way of organizing the discussion. But if there are other topics you'd like to discuss that'd be great too. Alright, so um, it struck me that, um, you know, we could start out with some sort of general thing about, um, [vocalsound] things that you found easier or more difficult with respect to transcribing or checking or using the interface or, uh, dealing with the time bins or any aspect of that type. And then, maybe talk about specifics [disfmarker] specifics of the data and then maybe talk about, um, aspects of the conventions and then the technical set up regarding the, um, auditory image and the interface. OK, so, maybe we could just, um, start with issues of the [disfmarker] [@ @] [comment] the tar ti up there at the top of [disfmarker] What [disfmarker] what did you find easiest or more s most difficult about transcribing the data?
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] One thing that I remember being really difficult at the beginning and it got easier as we went along was, um, acronyms and technical terms. Um, because there are so many
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] and [disfmarker] it's a field that I'm not really l very [disfmarker] I don't know, I don't know very much about this kind of stuff [disfmarker] computers and speech recognition. I've never taken classes on it or anything, so. I found that really hard. And I remember transcribing and having a bunch of [disfmarker] You know, every five words there'd be something I'd put in parentheses cuz I didn't know what it was. So.
[speaker006:] Parentheses, meaning uncertainty.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah,
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] but it's definitely gotten easier because the same things keep getting repeated,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] once you learn what it is, and you can say, "OK I know what they meant by that" or "I know how to spell that now" or something like that. And the Cast of Characters that you put up on the Web was helpful
[speaker006:] Is [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] also.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] OK, good. It's sorta like a foreign language, isn't it? It's basically [disfmarker] you have these [vocalsound] specialized terms for things that I didn't know n needed specialized terms.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Especially when describing like the set up in this room, also, and the different types of mikes.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] And it's hard to tell when people are talking relatively quickly. They just glide over some of the letters. They don't fully pronounce them. So you can't really tell even if you listen to it ten times [@ @] [comment] what it is.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Yeah. I usually put most of the acronyms in parentheses cuz I think it's sort of safe, cuz people can [disfmarker] people can say their acronyms really fast
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] and I figure that even if I think I know exactly what letters they said, it's probably best to put them in parentheses cuz I probably don't.
[speaker006:] That's not a bad strategy. I mean, i it's [disfmarker] it's true that I [disfmarker] I always check the parentheses at the last stage and those are pretty easy to clear, in terms of when they're in context.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Right.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Not a bad strategy.
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Some of them just occurred over and over the [disfmarker] again, so like [disfmarker] PDA. Like that got [disfmarker] got easy.
[speaker006:] Yes. Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] There [disfmarker] there was a [disfmarker] a bunch of them that, uh [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] I suspect in context.
[speaker003:] They just kept getting repeated often and often you know, over and over, so.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Just got better,
[speaker006:] And also when you have the [disfmarker] the juxtaposition of PDA and PZM [disfmarker] [vocalsound] then, you know, you [disfmarker] [@ @] [comment] in context you can tell which one it's [disfmarker] is probably likely to be the one that you had.
[speaker003:] but. Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Even though I still don't know what they are. I mean, I assume they're microphones of some sort, but that's all.
[speaker006:] Well these here are the P Z that right there.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker005:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Is anybody wearing one of those awful quote Crown microphones that people used to be [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker006:] Uh you've heard, the "crown of pain".
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] No. He was telling us, uh, before the meeting that, um, that they're not in circulation right now, that they're [disfmarker] they were unpopular. I liked them,
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker006:] and Adam liked them.
[speaker001:] Oh. Oh, OK.
[speaker006:] I thought the quality was good.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Just curious.
[speaker006:] What [disfmarker] yeah, what did he say? He said some more things about that, but I was n I was working on something else.
[speaker004:] About the microphone?
[speaker006:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] I can't remember. I mean he's e he [disfmarker] he said that they were designed for a specific sized head?
[speaker006:] Ah, yeah. Yeah, that's right.
[speaker004:] Right?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And so if [disfmarker] if your head happened to be that size, then you were fine
[speaker006:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker004:] and if it w was bigger, then it was like torture,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] Yeah,
[speaker004:] o or [disfmarker] I don't know.
[speaker006:] it's [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker006:] I liked them. And there's the [disfmarker] actually, there's the picture of the [disfmarker] of the Crown adjustment on the wall right there.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] So it sort of hooks over your ears from the back.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh, OK.
[speaker006:] Yeah, good c
[speaker004:] Oh, it doesn't look so bad, but, I guess it depends really.
[speaker006:] Yeah. OK, so now what about accents? Do you have, uh [disfmarker] Did you find any p
[speaker001:] They're tough sometimes.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Sometimes the German accents can get a little bit daunting. I mean, um, I forget who it was that I was transcribing but, it was tough to figure out what e e he was saying, uh, at any given point in time and I would I would just listen to it over and over and over again, going "Oh my God! My head's gonna explode!" like, not really understanding a
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] you know? And so I was getting a little frustrated because I would put a lot of things into parentheses and then go back over it and go back over it again and still [disfmarker] you know, I [disfmarker] I like to try to clear as much up as I possibly can and I [disfmarker] I just felt like you know, with the German accents, just for me personally, those were probably the toughest to get around.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Um, they weren't impossible but just [disfmarker] like they too the m they took the most time too. I mean I would take maybe twice as long on a [disfmarker] a g given channel w with a speaker who has a German accent than somebody who's you know, a native English speaker,
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Hm hmm.
[speaker001:] or even Asian [disfmarker] like, uh, speaks an En Asian language. I found that easier. Uh, you know. Uh, somebody who speaks like Chinese or something, [@ @].
[speaker006:] What's [disfmarker] you've [comment] studied some languages,
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] which [disfmarker] which ones do you [disfmarker] are you studying? It's more of a Romance direction, or [disfmarker]?
[speaker001:] Um, yeah [disfmarker] well, I studied [disfmarker] I mean, [vocalsound] I studied Old English for a while.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Um, and then I've worked with Larry Hyman on like some of the Bantu languages. Um,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] and you know, I'm also working with Ian Maddieson and he's been doing work on the, uh, like also some African languages. So I've [nonvocalsound] like learned a little bit.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm, so it's not really [disfmarker] you're not really exposed to German very much.
[speaker001:] No, I mean I sing in German.
[speaker006:] Ah! [comment] Interesting. Interesting.
[speaker001:] But [disfmarker] I mean, I can [disfmarker] I can pronounce it
[speaker006:] Huh.
[speaker001:] but I don't know any.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker004:] That's interesting.
[speaker003:] Hmm hmm.
[speaker001:] I can do [disfmarker] I can pronounce a lot of languages and not actually speak them
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] because of singing.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Huh.
[speaker004:] For me I found the Spanish speakers to be the hardest. And the German speakers I found a little bit easier,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and I thought maybe that was because I had [disfmarker] I took German for a semester and I've had exposure to German,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker004:] um, because I had a lot of friends who were really into Germany and German language and [disfmarker] But [disfmarker] And I found that I could [disfmarker] if they were pronouncing something in a certain way I could say, "Oh well that's just the German way of pronouncing this" and then I figured out what they were saying.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] um, but with the Spanish speakers it was [disfmarker] I've never taken Spanish, and even though I've taken French, and I speak French fairly well, um, I found the Spanish to be much harder and [disfmarker] maybe also because the level of fluency for the Spanish speakers was a little bit less than the level of fluency of the German speakers that are here?
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker005:] If you're talking about who I think you're talking about [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I think
[speaker005:] are you talking about um [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] There was a couple of different Spanish speakers.
[speaker003:] Can we give names?
[speaker005:] O can [disfmarker] yeah.
[speaker003:] We [disfmarker] w we probably shouldn't, right?
[speaker005:] Is that [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] I it's a good question. Um, And I can't really answer that.
[speaker005:] OK, well there's one in particular who I find the hardest to transcribe of all, and it's [disfmarker] d she's Spanish.
[speaker006:] Oh.
[speaker005:] So.
[speaker003:] Oh yeah, OK.
[speaker005:] And, um, and I've taken lots [disfmarker] I'm fluent in Spanish, and so, um, when I [disfmarker] when I correct it, I can t I can tay [disfmarker] tell that the person who, um, transcribed it before me probably didn't speak Spanish, cuz I can catch a lot of things like [disfmarker] like "No, that's not what she said", I can tell she's [pause] pronouncing [disfmarker] pronouncing it the way that if you read it from a [disfmarker] you know, a Spanish speaker's mind that you would, you know, pronounce it the way that you would pronounce it in Spanish. But the same time, uh I can't get most of it, cuz I [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Huh, that's really interesting.
[speaker006:] Oh, that's fascinating.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker005:] I find it one of [disfmarker] one of the hardest ones to transcribe.
[speaker006:] Well, what you can see is that it's [disfmarker] it's her lack of [disfmarker] of English fluency that's being [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh OK.
[speaker004:] I think so, yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's [disfmarker] that's really interesting. I do find that the German tends to be easier for me than s than the others
[speaker003:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] because of my c exposure and interest in German.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] But, um,
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker001:] Maybe I haven't transcribed this Spanish woman, I don't know if I have.
[speaker006:] I suspect you haven't because this was, uh, earlier on that we had a lot of [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] actually she [disfmarker] she was in the middle phase I would say. We had another Spanish speaker who was earlier who was also difficult.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm. Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah, he was hard.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] But that's really interesting.
[speaker003:] He got easier though, because he started [disfmarker] like he would say certain words over and over,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] And you got to know his pronunciation of them.
[speaker003:] Yeah. So when he said "sign yah", and it sounds like "sign", he was saying "signal".
[speaker004:] I remember, yeah.
[speaker006:] Yes. Yes yes yes. Uh huh.
[speaker004:] Yeah, I remember that.
[speaker006:] Ex
[speaker003:] And so I would transcribe it as "signal".
[speaker006:] exactly.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker005:] Oh, wow.
[speaker004:] And [disfmarker] and m eh the way he said "mixed" was really strange, too.
[speaker002:] Ah!
[speaker006:] "Miss ed".
[speaker003:] "Meexe", "meese", "mees uh", or something.
[speaker004:] "Miss ed" or somethi
[speaker005:] "Miss"
[speaker004:] yeah.
[speaker006:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] Huh.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Which was [disfmarker] you know, you could predict it,
[speaker004:] He [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] I mean, if you knew [disfmarker] look looked back at it,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] That's kinda cool.
[speaker004:] Especially because also in the beginning meetings, I mean, he'd say something and no one in the meeting would understand,
[speaker006:] they [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] and then everyone would say, "What was that again?"
[speaker003:] Oh, eh [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] and then they'd pronounce it in English
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and so I could figure out what it was
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] that way.
[speaker006:] Yeah, interesting.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker003:] Yeah, I mean he was never like [disfmarker] it was never up to like a native speaker, but like that [disfmarker] it got a little easier. Um [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Like his English fluency got better?
[speaker003:] I remember in the beginning you had [disfmarker] and you were just sorta like [disfmarker] you were beating your head against the wall,
[speaker004:] Oh, I went crazy.
[speaker003:] but I [disfmarker] it go but it got better, it got better.
[speaker004:] I [disfmarker] I would skip doing that portion for as long as I could
[speaker003:] Yeah, I know. Yeah. [comment] I remember.
[speaker004:] because i I just couldn't deal with it,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah, I had the same experience.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Sometimes [disfmarker] And actually [disfmarker] Sometimes [nonvocalsound] when people lack a certain level of fluency you can ask them themselves, "What did you say there?" and they can't tell you.
[speaker004:] And they won't know.
[speaker006:] S I think it's [disfmarker] it's sort of a general variability when it's not [disfmarker] when you're learning a language and you haven't gotten to a certain level.
[speaker005:] Mmm.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker004:] Hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm. Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] I also wonder if [disfmarker] if it's partly that Span Spanish has different pronunciations in different regions? I mean, do you think that, um, that, uh, maybe [disfmarker] I mean, being [disfmarker] I mean, not that I would know that.
[speaker005:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] But I just wondered if, um [disfmarker] you know, she was from probably continental Spain versus [@ @] [comment] y you know other Spanish [disfmarker] I wonder if that would have a [disfmarker] a contributing factor.
[speaker005:] I don't know.
[speaker001:] Oh, like the region?
[speaker004:] I have no idea about Spain,
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] but I know that in France for example Parisian French is much easier for me to understand cuz I learned it versus France in like Marseilles or in the south or in like the provin like [vocalsound] the [pause] villages in the south,
[speaker001:] Sure. Right.
[speaker004:] it's really hard to understand.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Menton.
[speaker003:] Or in Quebec,
[speaker006:] That's right.
[speaker003:] right? In Canada it'd be [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] it's different.
[speaker004:] Much different.
[speaker003:] A lot of the pronunciations are different,
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker003:] yeah.
[speaker006:] And in my case with [disfmarker] with, uh, German w I [disfmarker] a certain region that I do well in and then [vocalsound] get farther away from that region
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] and I notice it's more and more difficult.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] There's another language that's spoken in Spain too, that's um,
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] what am I thinking of?
[speaker003:] Castillian?
[speaker001:] Castillian. Yeah, and uh,
[speaker004:] And [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] um [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] isn't it Catalan?
[speaker001:] Catalan.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] So maybe [disfmarker] I mean, depending on where she is, like maybe
[speaker006:] But she was also very low volume.
[speaker001:] ch
[speaker006:] And, um [disfmarker] and didn't say a lot.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] I mean, I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I c I totally agree. This was a [disfmarker] a difficult person to [disfmarker] to understand.
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yeah. Well, the last one I did she actually said a lot,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] But.
[speaker005:] and it was kinda [disfmarker] it was very hard to transcribe. You kno it was [disfmarker] i j I just think that, um, her fluency in English wasn't [disfmarker] wa um, wasn't very [disfmarker] very high up there, so it was really difficult.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] But, I mean, I did find that knowing Spanish helped me a lot.
[speaker006:] I can imagine that,
[speaker005:] I could tell that a lot of things that the other transcriber had put in parentheses, I was like, "I can see how you [disfmarker] how you couldn't understand that",
[speaker003:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] but I c I kn I think I know what she's doing.
[speaker006:] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[speaker005:] I mean, I think I know the mistake she's making. And [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] That's really good.
[speaker006:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah, cuz that's definitely something that I wouldn't have be able to do.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah, I couldn't do it in Spanish. I've [disfmarker] I found myself doing that somewhat in [disfmarker] in German.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] German.
[speaker005:] In German, yeah.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] There were problems even with, um, Am English speakers though. I mean, not in their level of fluency, obviously,
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] but in [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Some people tend to mumble,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] That's right.
[speaker004:] and [disfmarker] and it's hard to catch what it is is, cuz it goes by really quickly and you can't really tell
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Or they're laughing when they're talking
[speaker004:] That too.
[speaker006:] or they're [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] That too. Yeah. Or just [disfmarker] I don't know. And some people tend to get interrupted more, I know that's not something that the person themselves can control
[speaker001:] He yeah.
[speaker004:] but [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] If [disfmarker] when people talk over one another like constantly, [comment] like there's this whole barrage of voices coming from everywhere,
[speaker004:] um [disfmarker] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] it's like "Oh my God! What's going on right now?"
[speaker004:] Especially when they're [disfmarker] when you [comment] were using the l the mikes that weren't m headmounted mikes.
[speaker001:] It's kind of [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Oh. Yeah.
[speaker004:] And there was input from other people on the same channel as the person who was talking.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah,
[speaker004:] And that was really hard to deal with.
[speaker006:] we had lapels for d l brief And then sometimes people would wear these around their necks,
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] which would mean really basically u uh, a problem that you're saying of getting input from others,
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker005:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] and also, um, it varying when they change their hea w head position.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm. Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah,
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] but [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] A big im I tha I think the transcriptions improved immensely, like exponentially, um, after it was able to sort of isolate a single person onto a single channel.
[speaker004:] Yeah,
[speaker006:] Oh, excellent.
[speaker004:] absolutely.
[speaker003:] Um [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Oh, good to know.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Oh, there's no question.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker003:] Um [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] S so that was [disfmarker] You're talking about early on, the change fro into Channeltrans?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] You guys didn't have o one channel per person before?
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker004:] No, it was one like [disfmarker] one ribbon for everybody
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker001:] Oh, wow.
[speaker002:] Euh.
[speaker004:] and you had to kind of [disfmarker] you could switch signals, like you could listen to a different one,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] but you couldn't really [disfmarker] Well could you? Did [disfmarker] we didn't do that very much.
[speaker001:] You couldn't visually isolate it?
[speaker005:] What?
[speaker004:] You couldn't visually do it, no.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker002:] Euh.
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker004:] And f Yeah.
[speaker003:] And you had to mark interruptions by a slash,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm, that's right.
[speaker003:] right?
[speaker004:] And it was very hard to be precise about it,
[speaker003:] Um [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Overlaps.
[speaker004:] and it was very hard to tell [disfmarker] I had so much trouble at the very beginning trying to figure out who was who.
[speaker005:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Cuz there's m so many men and so few women.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] The women were easy to f figure out who was who, and then the men [disfmarker] all their voices sounded the same except I think there was one British English speaker and that was easy but
[speaker005:] Wow, that's difficult.
[speaker004:] Eh. [comment] [disfmarker] Yeah.
[speaker003:] You know what? There might be a gender thing there, though, too,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] cuz I think [disfmarker] I think as women it might be easier to differentiate [disfmarker] Well, there were fewer women, too, but I [disfmarker] I wonder if a man transcribing all the guys [pause] would have had [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah. An easier time?
[speaker003:] Like if you [comment] had transcribed it you would have had an easier time differentiating them?
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] I don't know why that would be true,
[speaker006:] That's interesting.
[speaker001:] That's possible.
[speaker003:] but
[speaker004:] That's possible.
[speaker003:] you wonder if there'd be like a gender difference there? I don't know, I'm thinking about it as like a psychologist I suppose.
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker006:] It's possible.
[speaker003:] Anyway.
[speaker001:] Well, it's [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] oh, yeah, yeah, that's possible.
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I was just gonna say something. I was gonna say that, I mean, it's easier for people to mimic like the timbre of somebody's voice if it's the same [disfmarker] if, uh, that person's voice is the same [disfmarker] if that person is the same sex as you. So maybe, like, implicitly people pay attention more closely to uh, speakers of the same sex.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] I don't know. I don't know if that's actually true but I'm just throwing that out there.
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] It's interesting.
[speaker003:] Huh.
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker006:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Kind of an interesting research project.
[speaker006:] Yeah, it seems like it's [disfmarker] it's related to this production idea. How you [disfmarker] you internalize what you're externalizing in a way, but.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah, but it definitely got much better when that change happened.
[speaker003:] Oh yeah, it was so ea it [disfmarker] it became much easier.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Um, you know.
[speaker006:] In the prev You've also gone through [disfmarker] They've [comment] been here since the beginning. You've also gone through the [disfmarker] use the int in in introduction of the pre segmentation, and that kind of thing.
[speaker004:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] So initially they had to actually mark all the time bins themselves as well.
[speaker002:] Wow.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker005:] Oh, wow.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] That took a l
[speaker003:] Which wasn't as hard.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I mean, it took time.
[speaker004:] E No. [comment] It just took time. Yeah.
[speaker003:] It took time.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Um, I find that I have to adjust the time bins a lot anyway.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Me too,
[speaker001:] Me too.
[speaker004:] yeah. Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah,
[speaker003:] Um [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] I always adjust the time bins.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Um, not for the end of the utterance but for the beginning.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Sometimes the beginning [disfmarker] the person started to say something,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] I see.
[speaker002:] Really?
[speaker003:] it's a very slight difference, and then the time bin starts.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah, that happens a lot.
[speaker005:] Yeah right.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] Um, so you have to just move it back a little bit. And besi and I think you [comment] mentioned at some point that you wanted a little pad of time anyway.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] It doesn't hurt to have a pad. It's [disfmarker] it's nicer to have a pad than not,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Then to have it be cut off.
[speaker006:] d but s don't have to be really [disfmarker] Yeah, don't [disfmarker] doesn't have to be [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Don't have it just start, yeah.
[speaker005:] I always wonder about the, um, time bins.
[speaker004:] I thought [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Um, so.
[speaker005:] I mean, I usually ended adjusting them a little bit [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I mean, definitely when something's cut off at the beginning or the end but also sometimes there's just like huge pads of, you know, air before and [disfmarker] or after, um, that I don't really feel is necessary for that segment,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and I usually, um, you know, shrink it a bit
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Shrink in them or whatever,
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] yeah.
[speaker006:] Nice.
[speaker005:] and make it a little bit [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Seems like I always have to cut off pads at the end.
[speaker006:] Nice.
[speaker002:] I don't have so much problem at the beginning, but.
[speaker004:] Of breath or of uh [disfmarker] nothing?
[speaker002:] No, of n just nothing.
[speaker005:] Just nothing,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Hmm, yeah.
[speaker005:] yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah, there's nothing going on.
[speaker001:] At the beginning it seems to happen when, um, voicing occurs later [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker001:] l you know, like [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] With fricatives a lot.
[speaker001:] Yeah, with fricatives and with like, uh [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] I mean, like i it doesn't happen with, uh, like "buh" [comment] so much because you've got the pre voicing before the consonant actually begins.
[speaker004:] Although I found one in [disfmarker] actually I was just working right before this meeting, [comment] one where someone said, "great" and the [disfmarker] the G [disfmarker] it was pronounced as a K so it was unvoiced and then part of the R was cut off in the beginning.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker004:] And then you [disfmarker] It sounded like "great" if you just listened to that time bin it still sounded like "great".
[speaker005:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] But if you listened to right before it you could hear a little the [disfmarker] the K or whatever and a little bit of the R.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] So [disfmarker] I don't know.
[speaker001:] That's kind of interesting.
[speaker004:] Usually it's not [disfmarker] usually that doesn't happen but this time it did.
[speaker003:] So for the non linguists, what's a fricative?
[speaker006:] I [disfmarker] Ah.
[speaker001:] Oh. Uh, it's like "fff", "sss".
[speaker004:] Or "sss". Or [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Oh, OK.
[speaker005:] Or "thh".
[speaker001:] "Shh".
[speaker005:] It's a sound that [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] It's like the noisy, uh, um, like airflow ones where you've got like a [disfmarker] a stoppage in your mouth like, uh, like your tongue [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] But it's not completely blocking the airflow.
[speaker003:] Oh, I see.
[speaker005:] Yeah, and you can sort of [disfmarker] you can sort of keep it going a little bit.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] Oh, I see. Oh, OK.
[speaker002:] Unlike like a "tuh" or a "kuh" that just stops.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right. Got it.
[speaker001:] Sorry.
[speaker006:] Have you [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] I guess I'm the only non linguist.
[speaker006:] Well, I'm [disfmarker] I'm sort of a hybrid, so I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] you know, I [disfmarker] I appreciate having them do this,
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Oh, right, yeah, oh you [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] So, um, in [disfmarker] did you [disfmarker] have you run into places [disfmarker] I've run into a couple where actually the word was totally different when you adjusted the time bin. Have you had that happen?
[speaker004:] Mmm, yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] That's fascinating.
[speaker005:] Yeah. I like that.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Oh, it's really a kick.
[speaker005:] I think that's fun.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And it sometimes changes the entire utterance, too.
[speaker004:] Oh it does.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Completely. Yeah, I [disfmarker] I don't remember the words exactly. It's a shame. There was one that was a whole sentence was broken up in the middle, and there was a little like millisecond of break in the middle. And if you connected it all together, it completely changed what was right before it and what was right after [nonvocalsound] it. It was written as something else, and then it became a word together from what was before and after and then with this little tiny millisecond pause. So I guess [disfmarker] I don't know. I mean, I guess when we talk in between different segments of the word maybe, [comment] there's pauses somehow, I guess [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] or the [disfmarker] you can [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] We stop voicing sometimes.
[speaker004:] Yeah, or something like that. It's probably like inaudible for us but [disfmarker] And maybe the pause was just so short that it made up a pause. I don't [disfmarker] is [disfmarker] it [disfmarker] That doesn't make any sense, but.
[speaker006:] There are some times when there have been words that they just pause right in the middle of.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] You're [disfmarker] i it's h
[speaker004:] On purpose, though. Or not.
[speaker006:] Well, it ge u I'm sure sometimes on purpose, but sometimes it'd just be s saying something and especially people who have really lo elongation in their style,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] and they say, "That's really fascinating"
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] It's not a great example, but you know?
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Sh
[speaker006:] And [disfmarker] Yeah. Uh there's [disfmarker] it's [disfmarker] it's funny how, um, i it's funny to me that th something like that, you just change one little boundary and suddenly the whole meaning changes and I've run across that also.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah, that is true.
[speaker005:] Hmm. Would you want, um, uh, a transcription of something like that, of a big pause in between [disfmarker] in the middle of a word? Or just leave it as, "fascinating"?
[speaker006:] What I've done [disfmarker] I've [disfmarker] It's very rare. I mean, when I've run across it.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] And, you know, maybe there are times that I haven't detected it and I'm not [@ @] [disfmarker] you know, fin I haven't looked at everything. I've looked at [disfmarker] I've probably looked at per uh s at least eighty percent of the data, you know, all the way through e every meeting [disfmarker] [vocalsound] for about eighty percent of the stuff that I've cleared so far.
[speaker005:] Oh!
[speaker006:] And, um, i it s You guys are getting so good that it's like I'm [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] i I can get through them faster, and I'm getting to the point where I maybe don't have to go through them all the way, you know,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] so it's like [disfmarker] it's just we've gotten to a level, it's just really great, [comment] of, um, of [disfmarker] of [vocalsound] pre precision that um, it takes a lot of a load off of me.
[speaker005:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] And, um [disfmarker] and so I'm not gonna be checking them all I don't think in the [@ @] [comment] for throughout the whole rest of the project. But, um [disfmarker] Certainly have spot checking. But, um, hhh, [comment] those that I have found that way, [comment] to me, I think f f the most sensible way to handle it from my perspective was to treat it as a pronunciation situation.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] So just do a [disfmarker] you know, a mark, then "fascinating", and then put "PRN" and uh "interrupted by a pause" or, you know, some kind of other gloss like that, you know.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm, mm hmm. PRN.
[speaker004:] How it was really pronounced?
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker003:] Mmm, oh right. Uh huh.
[speaker006:] You know, "P R dot dot fascinating", whatever it is.
[speaker004:] I always get confused with the pronunciation convention.
[speaker006:] Sorry, what was this?
[speaker004:] I get confused with pronunciation, like when there's a strange pronunciation that I wanna mark.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker004:] Because I think w m may di in the beginning did we do the strange pronunciation and then write PRN and what it really was meant to be? And now we're doing the normal word and then inside the brackets what it sounded like?
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] We did a switch, right? Or not. I don't know if it's just me that's confused or if it was swi
[speaker006:] Well, I've [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Mm hmm, I [disfmarker] it [disfmarker] it never occurred to me, but now that you're mentioning it, n yeah, yeah, possibly.
[speaker006:] There was an adjustment, and I [disfmarker] and I've switched them all [disfmarker] all the way at this point so that
[speaker004:] OK. OK. So the convention as it stands now is write the word as it is normally conventionally spelled in English with the little [vocalsound] apostrophe, or whatever you call it,
[speaker006:] Yeah. Yep. Mm hmm, that's right.
[speaker004:] and then "PRN",
[speaker006:] And then in the brackets, what it [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] how it's pronounced.
[speaker006:] Uh huh. So i you know, "OK" is a very e easy example.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] A person says, "Mm kay"
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] then,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker006:] it's "OK" with a ha a little hatch and then, "PRN" and then "m mm kay", or whatever it is in quotes.
[speaker003:] Oh, right.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker001:] Oh. Right.
[speaker003:] I think Nelson's the only one who, uh [disfmarker] Oh, Morgan. You guys call him Morgan.
[speaker006:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker003:] He's the only one who ever did that, I think. "Mm kay."
[speaker004:] He does it a lot.
[speaker005:] "Mm kay" [disfmarker] I [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] He does it a [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker003:] yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah, and some people just say, "Kay."
[speaker003:] Um [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] "Kay", yeah, that's true.
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's right.
[speaker005:] S
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] And of course, you know [disfmarker] I mean, there's also this other reduction that w that we've done in terms of like not capturing every time a person says "and" versus "nnn" [comment] versus, you know, "nd", [vocalsound] whatever [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] all the different ways of reducing "and".
[speaker003:] That's true.
[speaker006:] Because you can assume that the speech recognition, um, uh, pronunciation models will handle a certain amount of reductions of these types, and the same thing for, um, well "the". "The" [comment] versus "the" that there are those known variants, and [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] Or "a" [comment] versus "a".
[speaker006:] Exactly.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] And that they should be able to handle themselves, and [disfmarker] and that we assume also that for discourse purposes, those distinctions are not really the focus right now, and those distinctions could be added later if needed but it's unlikely that they would be. And it's so time consuming.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] So we've made these [disfmarker] these simplifying assumptions with that, and so then you begin to think, "Well what about" OK "? I mean, maybe "mm kay" is an appropriate variant for "OK" and it wouldn't be necessary to mark those either, so it's [disfmarker] [nonvocalsound] it's definitely [disfmarker] there's a, uh, choice of how far you go with that, and whether "kay" is [disfmarker] is enough of a variant [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] you know, it's [disfmarker] th this is a case where, um, I appreciate it when people mark those kinds of things but I [disfmarker] I sort of figure that i [@ @] [comment] that [disfmarker] that's not as far aw away from "OK" as "mm kay" is, so it's not quite so [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] but I don't change it back if it's there,
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] I think with like some of them [disfmarker] like you know with uh the difference between "the" [comment] and "the", [comment] you can [disfmarker] you can distinguished very, uh, u dif definitively like what context they're gonna be used in.
[speaker006:] you know. Yes. Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Like um, [vocalsound] like you would say "the [comment] apple" because it's "the" plus then the next word starts with a vowel.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Or "the cat" because it's next word starts with a [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah. There's a study done on when people say "uh" and when people say "um".
[speaker001:] Yeah, I'm sure it's [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Also, there's contec in concet contextual variation,
[speaker005:] Oh, really?
[speaker004:] and it's predictable apparently,
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] I haven't read the [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] I was trying to figure that out myself a couple times,
[speaker004:] It's really interesting.
[speaker001:] But something like [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] and I couldn't get anything.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm, interesting.
[speaker005:] I kept looking at all the "uh's" and "um's" and I was like, "Oh, this would be hard to do."
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Oh, that's interesting.
[speaker004:] You know, what's [disfmarker] On that sort of similar topic, I just thought of something that's been hard for me sometimes, is you can have a pronunciation of [disfmarker] of the word "a" [comment] as "a".
[speaker006:] Huh. Yeah.
[speaker004:] And then you can have "uh" like a pause or whatever as "uh",
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] and sometimes it's hard to tell what the person meant. Are [disfmarker] did they mean "uh" like they're pausing
[speaker001:] Mmm, yeah.
[speaker004:] or did they mean "a" like "a person"?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I've run into that.
[speaker005:] Really?
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Once in a while.
[speaker004:] And
[speaker005:] I don't usually get con
[speaker004:] you can kind of tell from the context but sometimes it's hard,
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker004:] yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah, that came up a couple of times,
[speaker006:] Yeah, I [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Huh.
[speaker003:] yeah.
[speaker006:] I agree. And [disfmarker] and when I [disfmarker] when I'm totally in doubt, if there's a case where it really could be either, and I could flip a coin, [vocalsound] I'll choose the one that would make syntactically the most sense,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] give them the benefit of the doubt that they're being fluent about it.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Uh huh.
[speaker001:] Sometimes I'll put in like a bracket like uh, you know, the orthographic A slash UH like if I'm really confused.
[speaker004:] Like you can't tell,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah, kinda go "Well there's two, so here."
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] It must be really rare though, I haven't run across that often. Ha ha h Is it rare?
[speaker003:] Mmm mm.
[speaker001:] A few times.
[speaker004:] A few. It's really [disfmarker] yeah,
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker003:] It's rare.
[speaker004:] relatively rare.
[speaker002:] I don't think I ever have.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah. I mean I can only think of like two or three occasions where I sat and thought about it for a while.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Other times just you figure [disfmarker] you look at it and what's the context. Yeah. It's OK, I don't know.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker006:] OK. Well, le let's see now, there's another [disfmarker] another methodo what I go I wanna ask you at some point, it just occurred to me, [comment] I'd like to ask you the following question, maybe you can have this in the back of your minds, something like, um, you know, what sorts of hypothesis [disfmarker] your hypothesis about the [disfmarker] you know, ti trying to find the distributional explanations for some of these things.
[speaker003:] Huh.
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker006:] What kind of, uh, hypotheses have [disfmarker] has this caused you [disfmarker] uh, I mean, don't wanna have you give away a paper topic that you wanna explore, but, you know, if there's interesting th uh, hypotheses that the [disfmarker] that y have been suggested to you by looking at the data. That kinda thing, maybe, uh, at some point. So,
[speaker003:] Hnh.
[speaker006:] and al Oh! And I also wanna say, that, um, I'd like to meet again also next week,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] um, and I don't know if this is a good time frame, uh, maybe it'd be good to have it an hour later or [disfmarker] I don't know [disfmarker] I mean, could do anything
[speaker001:] This is fine.
[speaker004:] This time is fine for me.
[speaker006:] about [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah, this is a good time for me.
[speaker006:] Good time for you?
[speaker003:] It should be.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker003:] Um, I know I have something in the morning, which I don't normally have. I don't remember off the top of my head when it ends. Um, I'll let you know if it's [disfmarker] it'll be a problem but it should be OK.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker003:] Two thirty should be late enough. So.
[speaker006:] OK. Excellent, cuz we could probably move it one hour later,
[speaker001:] In m
[speaker006:] I mean [disfmarker] I think, u unless [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] I was just gonna say maybe fifteen minutes later would help me a little bit just cuz I have a class up at Dwinelle b just before this.
[speaker006:] Oh, I see.
[speaker001:] That's why I was a little late today
[speaker006:] Wow. You did really well.
[speaker001:] because [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Thanks. Well, I took the bus for part of the way.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Oh, did you? OK, OK.
[speaker001:] But um, that might help me just a little bit because then it [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] you know, I'm gonna [disfmarker] gonna be hobbling a little slowly.
[speaker004:] Then you don't have to rush.
[speaker006:] Would anybody be constrained by having it be a full half hour later?
[speaker004:] Hnh nn.
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker005:] No.
[speaker006:] OK. And th the final question i
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker003:] Except we'll miss treat time.
[speaker005:] Oh!
[speaker001:] Tea!
[speaker006:] Oh, that's right! Oh! [comment] I thought she said "mistreat time".
[speaker001:] Oh no.
[speaker003:] Maybe we could have like a [disfmarker] like a half hour, then take a little break,
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Mistreat? Oh!
[speaker005:] Yeah,
[speaker003:] then come back and finish the meet
[speaker005:] well that's [disfmarker] that's some good motivation to not start a half hour later.
[speaker004:] You know what we could do?
[speaker006:] Yeah, you know, that's [disfmarker] that's [disfmarker] that's an interesting [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] We could just ask the [disfmarker] someone like the front desk person or Lila to like set aside a little bit for us.
[speaker001:] Tha that's so funny.
[speaker003:] Little bit of treats.
[speaker006:] Hey, they would.
[speaker001:] Oh that's true.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Yeah, they would.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] That's [disfmarker] that's not a bad solution.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] It's not gonna be birthday cake, so.
[speaker004:] Yeah, so we'll survive.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's right,
[speaker001:] This is very important.
[speaker006:] it's already done. It's good to s good to have these things all scheduled. OK, so um [disfmarker] Oh, uh, eh then I was gonna ask you, what about an hour later? I mean, if we h had those things an hour later like, would people [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] This is fine with me.
[speaker006:] OK?
[speaker004:] That's fine too.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] OK, good.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Yeah. That's fine.
[speaker006:] Alright, so, I'll [disfmarker] I'll so settle on that.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] OK now, I wanted to say, you've been through a couple of different, uh, [@ @] improvements in the methods, the pre segmentation. There was another impro another improvement in that [disfmarker] Well, s let's ask if it was an improvement from your standpoint. Uh, the Tigerfish, um, approach. So, uh, s moving from having the first transcription done by an external service, and then you correcting that versus doing the initial transcription yourselves. Ho ho how [disfmarker] Have you [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker006:] And so I think you [disfmarker] Yeah, I think you [disfmarker] Did you [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] I don't think I have ever done one from an external [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] has there already been t
[speaker001:] I have.
[speaker005:] I th I feel like they've all been done probably by another transcriber here.
[speaker001:] You talking about the IBM ones?
[speaker006:] Yeah, IBM or if [disfmarker] if it was dash TF, that's the Tigerfish.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker005:] T
[speaker001:] Right, yeah, oh, yeah yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh, m yeah, then I guess I have. Maybe the o one I'm working on now.
[speaker001:] I could tell you something that I thought [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] So d
[speaker005:] They have different [disfmarker] definitely a different style, right? Do they end all [disfmarker] them all in dots,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] like dot dot?
[speaker006:] There's a lot of that.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker004:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] They used to.
[speaker004:] mm hmm.
[speaker005:] And they [disfmarker] and they capitalize like every single first [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] I really th
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And they put paren um, not parentheses. What's it called? Punctuation after brackets.
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's right too.
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker005:] Oh, OK, yeah, then I'm doing that right now.
[speaker003:] Right. Oh, right,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] "Laugh, period".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Something like that, right?
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Which makes no sense to me.
[speaker004:] No it doesn't to me either
[speaker005:] Like "that's not a syntactic part of that sentence".
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] If [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] but. No.
[speaker006:] Exactly. Exactly, I'm glad you [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah, exactly.
[speaker003:] Well, they're not linguists,
[speaker001:] if [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] so.
[speaker004:] No.
[speaker001:] if I could be completely frank, I really didn't like the IBM ones.
[speaker006:] Yeah. Oh, good to know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I didn't either.
[speaker006:] Oh, that's helpful.
[speaker001:] I found them to be just [disfmarker] I just [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I ended up basically redoing them.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Um, like from start to finish,
[speaker003:] I don't know if I did one.
[speaker001:] so when I was checking them like it would take me basically as long as it would have taken me to just to transcribe it by myself.
[speaker006:] Wow.
[speaker003:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Wow!
[speaker004:] I think it was a little bit faster than just transcribing it,
[speaker006:] Wow, OK.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] but I definitely saw a lot of [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] I'm really picky.
[speaker004:] there was a lot of errors that are not in the Tigerfish ones.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah, Tigerfish are better.
[speaker004:] Yeah. And they just have better intuitions, or I don't know what but, about what's said.
[speaker005:] OK Which are [disfmarker] What are the two differences? I'm not sure.
[speaker006:] I'm not sure if you had an IBM one. So this was earlier [pause] on.
[speaker005:] So do I have a Tigerfish one right now?
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] If it says "TF".
[speaker001:] If it says "TF".
[speaker006:] You probably do.
[speaker005:] Uh huh. OK.
[speaker001:] Yeah. The ones that say "IBM" are like [disfmarker] They actually say "IBM".
[speaker005:] So I don't think I've ever [disfmarker] The IBM ones were the ones that came in huge, huge paragraphs, huh?
[speaker001:] Yes!
[speaker004:] Yeah, and we had to split them up.
[speaker005:] See, I never got one of those.
[speaker001:] Yeah, and you have to parse them all down.
[speaker005:] Right,
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[speaker005:] OK, yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, I didn't g ever get one of those.
[speaker006:] So you didn't get one? Oh, interesting.
[speaker005:] No. I'm glad I didn't.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker002:] I didn't get one either.
[speaker003:] I think those show up in Tigerfish too, cuz I think I've had a couple of Tigerfish where I've had to break them up.
[speaker004:] Where they have li
[speaker005:] Ye
[speaker004:] Yeah, but they're not like [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] They're not [disfmarker] Yeah, I can remember, u I used to see [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] they're not huge huge, though.
[speaker003:] A couple were.
[speaker004:] Really?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker003:] And I had to sorta break them down.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker005:] Do they get them, um [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker005:] Id Is [disfmarker] They don't have like an interface, right? They just [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] No. In neither case. And I'm [disfmarker] and I'm thinking [disfmarker] I'm thinking [disfmarker] you're causing me to think back over what the differences were in the [disfmarker] what they got
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] and IBM didn't [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah. They just have [disfmarker] They just have it segmented.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] You can tell because sometimes they have it so wrong and it's like, "Well, if you had just listened to what was before".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] But they don't have that option.
[speaker005:] Yeah, but they don't have that. Yeah, I figured that they didn't.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] There's also some i iffiness about how d if [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Als
[speaker006:] We're not sure really how Tigerfish does it, you know, the methodology. How do they do this.
[speaker005:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] Because sometimes you'll have the s the same word, and I've seen this, [comment] like, within [disfmarker] well, within a single turn, l it'll be spelled in three different ways. And it's like, you know, is this the same person who's kind of forgetful,
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker005:] Uh huh.
[speaker006:] or is it that they have several people doing it together? You know, maybe it's parallel.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker006:] Maybe they're all doing it in parallel and one falls behind and the other one [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's interesting.
[speaker006:] But, who knows?
[speaker004:] And they don't [disfmarker] One person doesn't listen to all the channels of one meeting, right? So they can't get clues from the other channels?
[speaker006:] Well, you know, the [disfmarker] The way they're listening to it is they [disfmarker] they get a [disfmarker] they get [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Or can they? I don't know. Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] It's linearized. So if you picture what we have on the screen, um, you know, there's this block and it goes over [disfmarker] I'm doing it from my perspective. You have this block and it goes over to here and stops and this person starts to talk and he goes over to here
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] and then you have an overlap over here. And so what they would get is this block from the first guy, this block from the second guy, and then the top of the overlap and then the second guy in the overlap.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker005:] Oh, wow.
[speaker003:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] And then it would move on.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] So it's sort of like this [disfmarker] you know, you go this way as much as you can, then you cycle through there and then you go up to this next level
[speaker005:] So they hear all the channels at once like you guys were saying you first did?
[speaker006:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Oh, OK.
[speaker006:] Um, let's see, they hear them [disfmarker] Oh! uh, they hear them separately in two chunks, but then sometimes they get confused about who the foreground speaker is, because they're not being told who the foreground speaker is.
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker006:] You know, and especially you can see if you have like four speakers, it be reason you can maybe find a way of doing that. But with nine speakers [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Eee! [comment] Yeah.
[speaker006:] So what they get is they get a beep that tells them when there's something that they think [disfmarker] that the f pre segmenter thought there should be s transcribed in there.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] And [disfmarker] so they'll get [disfmarker] And it's numbered so that we end up with the same number of [disfmarker] of transcribed slots.
[speaker004:] As there are slots in the pre segmentation.
[speaker006:] Exactly.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Cuz the first time when we didn't have them numbered, we ended up with a [pause] couple extra [pause] segments that were transcribed, and it was hard to patch the whole thing back together
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] because when it comes back to our end, um, it's just this long string of things that they've uh, partitioned according to the tape that they were given.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Cuz they don't [disfmarker] they actually don't have digital interface either so it's [disfmarker] it's audiotape.
[speaker002:] Oh wow.
[speaker004:] Oh, wow.
[speaker003:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker005:] Hmm, wow.
[speaker006:] And they type it on
[speaker003:] Makes it really hard.
[speaker006:] and then [disfmarker] then it comes back to us
[speaker005:] Wow.
[speaker006:] and Adam and Thilo have a program wa they put it back together into our interface format and then we can use it.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] But, um, um, [vocalsound] there are f cases where you'll get a segment and it's someone else's utterance and that's because that was overlapping with someone else and this is the weaker speaker of the two,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] and you'll have like two totally parallel r renditions of the same thing.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Because i it's just [disfmarker] i n
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] So what they get is like [disfmarker] i t is they get something like "beep one". And then [disfmarker] then they get "beep two", "beep three". Chuck Wooters does the numbers. And, um, it cycles through.
[speaker003:] Wow. Oh, so they don't [disfmarker] Do they know the names of the speakers?
[speaker006:] No.
[speaker003:] Oh, OK.
[speaker006:] And they don't know which channel is s l supposed to be together.
[speaker003:] Cuz [disfmarker] y OK.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker003:] Cuz sometimes there'd just be interesting things where there'd be a misunderstanding about like [disfmarker] like Morgan would be speaking but it'd be on your [comment] channel, and it'd be like, "This is clearly not a woman speaking."
[speaker006:] Yes, exactly.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's quite right.
[speaker003:] It's like, "How could they do that?"
[speaker006:] And that's why.
[speaker003:] It's like [disfmarker] Well now it's [disfmarker] it m seems more reasonable that they'd make a mistake like that if they had no idea.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Exactly right.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] God, it must take them a really long time to do these.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Um.
[speaker006:] They're very fast.
[speaker004:] That's amazing.
[speaker006:] Is l Yeah.
[speaker004:] It sounds so hard.
[speaker006:] Yeah. It [disfmarker] it turns out that they're really much faster than the other approaches we've used, and we don't know exactly how they do it
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] and I think that that's by intention, that [disfmarker] [@ @] [disfmarker] not just me who thinks that [disfmarker] it's that proprietarily, it's a very competitive business
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] and they probably don't wanna, uh, say too much about it.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Leak their secrets?
[speaker006:] Yeah. Yeah. But they're very fast. It's uh [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Well, I [disfmarker] I definitely prefer not doing the transcript I mean, I liked transcribing [comment] because I felt like I was much closer to the data
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and I had a lot more ideas, [comment] like you were saying, hypotheses of what's going on
[speaker006:] Huh.
[speaker004:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] but it took a really long time and I'd get frustrated with it. And I think that I would lose my [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I don't know, I would not be as thorough, not be as careful.
[speaker005:] I kinda miss it.
[speaker006:] Excellent. Uh huh.
[speaker005:] I liked [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] You miss [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah,
[speaker006:] Oh! I see.
[speaker005:] I liked transcribing.
[speaker002:] I kinda did too.
[speaker003:] Yeah, I liked transcribing.
[speaker006:] Oh, interesting.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] I [disfmarker] You know, I feel [disfmarker] [vocalsound] I feel like it was, um, more personal. I was [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] It was more personal.
[speaker005:] You know, the [disfmarker] n This is sort of just, you know, correcting other [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I feel like I'm just sort of like correcting a test or something now,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] you know, that somebody's already done,
[speaker006:] Oh, how interesting.
[speaker005:] and [disfmarker] But, I mean, it's still [disfmarker] It's still cool.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] But, um, yeah, I did [disfmarker] I did like actually doing the transcribing a little bit more.
[speaker004:] You don't tend to notice as much I don't think at checking as you do transcribing, because it's already there so you don't have to pay as much attention.
[speaker001:] That's true.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah, OK.
[speaker005:] Yeah, and when you're [disfmarker] when you're, um, just checking you're [disfmarker] You're usually just looking for certain things that you know are gonna come up,
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] and I usually assume that, um, the words are mostly right, although I g you know, I go through and I look and make sure all the words are right, but usually it's like, punctuation and capitalization and other things that I'm [disfmarker] end up changing.
[speaker004:] And time bin corrections and things,
[speaker005:] And time bins,
[speaker004:] yeah.
[speaker005:] yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I guess I'm such a perfectionist that I sort of combine the two when I'm checking, like I act as though I'm transcribing it.
[speaker004:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] Really?
[speaker001:] And so [disfmarker] Yeah, I really do. Like I'm [disfmarker] I tend to take a little [vocalsound] longer maybe than other people [comment] doing checking but like I [disfmarker] I'm like ultra careful.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] I [disfmarker] That's just how I am. But, like I [disfmarker] I think I really, like, think of it in terms of re transcribing it almost
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and I only [disfmarker] You know, b
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] So, like, I [disfmarker] I change time bins a lot, and I like will change what people write [disfmarker] like for whatever words they write a lot,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Right. Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] like [disfmarker] So, I guess I don't see too much of a difference but that's just because it's me.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Like I think I like checking more for that reason because then it's sort of [disfmarker] it's like it's a [disfmarker] it's a little helpful.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] It's like kind of, you know, somebody's helping me a little bit, but I'm actually doing the work anyway,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker001:] is kind of how I see it.
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] One thing that's annoying I think with checking is that a lot of times in the meetings you tend to have one or two people who talk a lot and the rest of the people just sit there until it's their turn to give their little report or whatever.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] And yet you have to check the channels for if they did backchannels or if they did other things that you need to encode that weren't on the pre segmenter. But sometimes it's not visually easy.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And so I'm [disfmarker] Sometime I debate with myself whether it's really worth it to sit there and listen to the whole thing [comment] or risk missing a little bit and doing it visually.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] It's hard to decide sometimes.
[speaker006:] And this is when you crank up the visual.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] I mean, you've still got the maximum [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah. Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah. OK.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Well, sometimes when you crank up the visual all it gives you is the background speakers.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And s Yeah,
[speaker006:] Yeah, it's true.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] that's the thing.
[speaker006:] It's true,
[speaker004:] i that's the thing that makes it harder sometimes.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] it's just a big mess.
[speaker002:] Or if they're breathing loudly.
[speaker005:] So.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's right. Well, i it's a judgment call. And you can also say [disfmarker] well, you know, if the backchannels were so limit so low on volume that they weren't o visually obvious, then you can say, "Well, it's reasonable not to worry about them."
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah. The [disfmarker] I mean [disfmarker] but also if they have it all pre segmented and they can only hear the segments, they often miss what's in between because they didn't even have the option of listening to what's in between.
[speaker004:] You mean the transcribers?
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm,
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] so. And you know, the [disfmarker] the segmenter usually misses little things like "mm hmm" and "yeah"
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's tr right, That's quite right.
[speaker005:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's right.
[speaker004:] And even bigger things.
[speaker005:] yeah, sometimes the segmenter will [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I mean you've [comment] said things that weren't caught on the pre segmenter, like whispers, kind of.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Just like, "Oh, that's interesting",
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker004:] or something like that.
[speaker001:] Well, like little sighs, or like inbreaths, like as though you're gonna start speaking,
[speaker004:] Yeah, you're about to s speak.
[speaker001:] which I feel is important
[speaker003:] Uh [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yes, I agree.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] because it means that somebody's about to interject something but then they decide for whatever reason that they're not going to.
[speaker004:] But then they don't.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And oftentimes I find that the segmenter will miss those kind of things, those kind of vo vocal cues.
[speaker004:] And sometimes even laughs.
[speaker001:] Yeah, breath laughs especially.
[speaker003:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Uh huh. Uh huh.
[speaker002:] Oh yeah.
[speaker005:] Hmm. I usually take out [disfmarker] um, I usually don't put in any of the breaths unless they're laughs. I usually don't transcribe the [disfmarker] the inbreaths or things like that.
[speaker004:] I don't either. M but, I mean I don't take them out if they're already there.
[speaker005:] You know?
[speaker004:] I don't [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] c Yeah. It's [disfmarker] it's good to [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] If it sounds like a yawn. I've transcribed yawns,
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] um [disfmarker] You can hear, there's like. You know, it, like [disfmarker] [comment] something like that.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] It [disfmarker] Well, it's communicative.
[speaker003:] Uh [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah, or when it's a laugh.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I mean, often in the Tigerfish there'd [disfmarker] it would si say "breath", but it [disfmarker] it w it actually seemed more like a laugh.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] It's really a laugh.
[speaker005:] It's a laugh, yeah.
[speaker004:] But it's a laugh.
[speaker001:] It's actually a breath laugh.
[speaker004:] Yeah. And you can [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Um, cuz everyone's laughing. Someone has just said something funny
[speaker005:] Uh huh.
[speaker003:] and everyone's like, "Ah ha ha ha ha".
[speaker004:] And everyone else is laughing, and then the other person is like "ha ha"
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] but it's not a actual laugh,
[speaker003:] Right,
[speaker004:] but like [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] it's [disfmarker] it's not a very committed laugh,
[speaker004:] I don't know how you do it,
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] but it's still a laugh.
[speaker004:] you know?
[speaker001:] It's [disfmarker] No, like, yeah, it's like.
[speaker003:] It's like [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] yeah, "I guess I'll laugh cuz everyone else is laughing," I [disfmarker] You know, who knows, but [disfmarker] but yeah.
[speaker006:] Have you noticed that Tiger I've noticed that Tigerfish uses "cough" a lot where it isn't really a cough.
[speaker003:] It should be "clear throat", or something.
[speaker006:] You notice that? Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] Oh yeah, mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah, I [disfmarker] I just fix that.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I'd fix that too.
[speaker006:] Yeah. Do you find [disfmarker] you've [disfmarker] i This has caused me to wonder. So, in Tigerfish ones, do you find that where they've [disfmarker] where they have like "dot dot's" cuz it's segments they didn't hear, [comment] that [disfmarker] that you add [disfmarker] u you probably do add things in those places where it's [disfmarker] where nothing is transcribed really, because they didn't even hear it.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] You mean in between the segments that they did transcribe?
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh. Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah. That's where you f tend to find [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Interesting. Oh, interesting.
[speaker005:] Yeah, you find little lost [disfmarker] lost words in the middle.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker005:] Huh.
[speaker006:] Huh.
[speaker004:] It's [disfmarker] it depends on the person, I mean, some people don't tend to do [disfmarker] aren't that involved in the meeting, or something, and they don't tend to say as much,
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] um, m backchannels or whatever. And some people [disfmarker] I mean [disfmarker] I remember [vocalsound] transcribing one person, all they did was clear their throat and breathe.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And then read digits and then it was like the end of the meeting.
[speaker001:] Yo yo yo.
[speaker003:] I think I know who you're talking about, but [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] So. But then some people tend to [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] There's one guy in particular who does that. It's really cute actually.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Uh [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Mm hmm. But then there are some people who are [disfmarker] Even if they're not actually speaking, you can tell they're more involved or interested or something,
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] cuz they're always, "Mm hmm, oh yeah, really, mm hmm" [disfmarker] Um, reacting. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Reacting.
[speaker005:] Uh huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] It just occurred to me, this is a [disfmarker] a different kind of question, but I w from having listened to all these people, I mean, and it is kind of ab abnormal to be listening to them as if you're [disfmarker] they're talking into your ear, really.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] You know, it's this really unusual acoustic circumstances.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] Uh huh.
[speaker006:] Um, I sort of end up feeling like I know these people better than I really do. And it's like you go out to tea and there they are
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] and, "Oh, you were so funny in that meeting" and it [disfmarker] it has this sort of unusual dynamic because, you know, I [disfmarker] I'm privy to information which really by all rights I shouldn't be,
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] except of course they [disfmarker] they agreed,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] they signed, they were there, they agreed.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Right,
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] yeah.
[speaker006:] But [disfmarker] but it [disfmarker] but it's sort of an unusual relationship to say, you know, i i you know, if you're in the meeting yourself, then you [disfmarker] of course you'd have access to all this information and all your inferences about, you know, whether they're funny or not funny or whatever,
[speaker004:] I remember from the very beginning, I would go to tea and start recognizing voices.
[speaker006:] but it [disfmarker] Oh, that'd be interesting.
[speaker004:] And like turn around and be like, "Wait, that person doesn't look anything like I imagined them."
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker004:] a eh [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Y you know who I kept wanting to meet? Was Bhaskara.
[speaker004:] Nnn.
[speaker006:] He's [disfmarker] he's on campus, I found this out.
[speaker001:] Is he really?
[speaker006:] Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
[speaker001:] He has such a nice voice. I really like his voice,
[speaker006:] Yeah. Nice guy. Nice guy.
[speaker001:] so I kept wanting to meet him. And then John told me that he's not around anymore.
[speaker006:] Oh, but he is.
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Or something,
[speaker006:] I went on [disfmarker] I actually went on a hike with him two weeks [disfmarker] three weeks ago.
[speaker001:] so. Neat.
[speaker003:] Oh, cool.
[speaker001:] Just curious.
[speaker006:] Yeah. Yeah yeah. Yeah. Nice guy.
[speaker003:] I just wanted to know what Liz looked like.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] I've never gotten to see her.
[speaker004:] Nn mm.
[speaker006:] Oh, she's here.
[speaker005:] I haven't seen most of them.
[speaker001:] I haven't either.
[speaker003:] She's got a nice voice. I know she's here, I know she's a big part of the Institute, right? So.
[speaker006:] Yeah, I'm sure you've seen her,
[speaker003:] Um [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] uh but [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] I must have, I just don't know who [disfmarker] you know, what she looks like.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Um [disfmarker] Yeah, I think she's got a nice voice.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] But anyway.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] She always tends to get interrupted.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] It's OK if we say nice things about these people,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] right?
[speaker006:] Yeah yeah, that's no problem. I also find that some of the [disfmarker] you know, if someone sits there and [disfmarker] and it [disfmarker] th there's this o one who doesn't say much, but she just is always pleasant. You know, and it's kind of a smiling voice and she laughs
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker006:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] I th I think I know who you're talking about.
[speaker006:] What a difference. Yeah. I mean it's like [disfmarker] Actually it's [disfmarker] um, she's [disfmarker] she's just so pleasant. And [disfmarker] and, you know, adds a lot just by virtue of that.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] You know, can [disfmarker] People will talk on all these technical things but she'll [disfmarker] she'll say something technical and then laugh, and [disfmarker] It's [disfmarker] it's very interesting, the ambience that you can get through these [disfmarker] these little things.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] It's [disfmarker] really makes it a lot nicer to transcribe because there can be a lot of heated discussions about these very technical issues
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] and people will have their opinions and, you know [disfmarker] And then you can [disfmarker] It's really nice to have a little bit of humor, a little bit of break away from that
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] because it's hard to sit there and li see [disfmarker] like, But, don't you see h you're being rude to this person, you're cutting off this person
[speaker001:] I know.
[speaker004:] and it's not nice? "
[speaker001:] I started like kind of making mental friends.
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker001:] I'm just like, [comment] "I really like that person. You know what, I'm gonna be his or her friend."
[speaker006:] I agree with you.
[speaker001:] And then [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] I agree,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] it's [disfmarker] it's really interesting, Also,
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] i it's a persona, you get this [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] there's definitely a sense of persona.
[speaker004:] You definitely get an image of [disfmarker] uh [disfmarker] Especially if you can relate it to what the person [disfmarker] or y what you assume the person is uh interested in academically.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] It's really [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Some of that computer stuff, I just [disfmarker] Oh, my God. I'll just sit there like going, "Oh fff!" It's going right over my head.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, I just [disfmarker] I start zoning out sometimes. Like, I don't mean to, but I'm just kind of going, I don't know what any of these acronyms are
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and no idea what you're talking about. "
[speaker004:] And there was a whole set of meetings that are like that.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] That's right.
[speaker004:] It [disfmarker] Wasn't there?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah, those were really hard.
[speaker005:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker001:] And they're writing stuff on boards and stuff that we can't see,
[speaker004:] Really hard. Yeah, and it's hard [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] and so we don't know what they're referring to,
[speaker003:] Right. Yeah, all you hear is the squeaky pen,
[speaker001:] and so.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and you're like, Oh, no,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] something [disfmarker] something's going on that I don't know. "
[speaker001:] Yeah, they're referring to this or that and the other thing and you're just going, No,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't understand. "
[speaker004:] U no.
[speaker006:] Yeah, it's difficult.
[speaker003:] Yeah, you guys talked about doing a videotape.
[speaker006:] Yes. um, [vocalsound] it's mainly a matter of [disfmarker] two things.
[speaker003:] The sort of [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] First is the storage. It'd be so huge that, uh, you'd wanna be sure that it was of interest to someone, that it would be worthwhile doing.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] And that's the other thing, that we don't have someone currently doing the video thing. It would really be interesting.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Cuz I know it was mentioned.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Also having a meeting where you all wore blindfolds.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh?
[speaker001:] Really?
[speaker003:] Li it was Liz's idea, wasn't it?
[speaker006:] That was Liz's idea.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] What would be the point of that?
[speaker006:] Oh, well, it's a question of feedback, and being able to give feedback.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker005:] Oh, wow.
[speaker004:] I think that would be really interesting.
[speaker001:] Oh I see.
[speaker005:] That would be interesting.
[speaker001:] So you have to do it vocally as opposed to visually? Like you can't use gesture?
[speaker006:] Yeah. Exactly.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Ah.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Wow.
[speaker006:] And, you know [disfmarker] I mean, th that was the meeting where, [vocalsound] um, [@ @] [comment] you know the m the [disfmarker] th y y [vocalsound] Partitions wouldn't work. Another possibility is pa partitions wouldn't work because then it would cut off the P Z Ms from having the indirect [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker005:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] so it's like you have these unusual configuration problems that [disfmarker] that you wouldn't normally have.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker006:] Yeah, blindfolds. You know, and someone else said, "Well, maybe you could just turn the light out."
[speaker003:] There you go.
[speaker004:] That'd be kinda creepy.
[speaker006:] But then, someone else said no,
[speaker001:] Cute.
[speaker006:] cuz there are these m special lights that have to stay on all the time
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker006:] for the fire code or whatever it is.
[speaker005:] Oh, wow.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker006:] But then [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] I would just be so worried that someone would cheat. You know, it's sort of like a prisoners' di prisoners' dilemnas game, where [vocalsound] you know, everyone's wearing their blindfold but someone could just cheat and look, see what's [disfmarker] [vocalsound] see what's going on.
[speaker006:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Are you raising your hand?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Totally.
[speaker003:] You know, someone just leaves, you know, gets coffee,
[speaker001:] Right. Right, right.
[speaker003:] comes back, and no one knows.
[speaker001:] Gets bored.
[speaker006:] Yeah, I mean, there are other things we could expand on and [disfmarker] with [disfmarker] i in terms of the methodology. It's nice to have a core set of data though and they've d actually done some [disfmarker] they've had some good results in terms of the digits which they do in terms of having a r a nice broad set of speakers doing the same thing, meeting after meeting after meeting.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] So, um [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] That's good.
[speaker006:] I'm wondering, um, so we still technically [disfmarker] uh [disfmarker] you know [disfmarker] I mean, what should we do in terms of tea? Technically [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] if we could hang on for fifteen more minutes and have tea?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] That's OK.
[speaker006:] And then continue with this [disfmarker] this next [disfmarker] next week?
[speaker003:] Yeah, sure.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker003:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker004:] It's OK.
[speaker006:] That'd be great. OK, so, um, let's see.
[speaker004:] I had something that I could bring up.
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker004:] Um, as far as ideas about looking at the data and getting ideas about whatever you said [disfmarker] hypotheses about how to figure it out.
[speaker006:] Yes. Yeah.
[speaker004:] One thing that I [disfmarker] I'm [disfmarker] you probably don't remember this [disfmarker] that I was really interested in is the use of "so" and the use of "or". Because the way people use it in these meetings, I found, was [disfmarker] I don't know if it was [disfmarker] it [disfmarker] if it's different than other people. I don't know if it's a computer speech thing. I mean, computer people speech thing, but um,
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] people tend to end utterances quite often with "so" or "or" and trailing off.
[speaker001:] Oh, yes.
[speaker005:] M Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] A couple people in particular do that,
[speaker004:] Yeah,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm,
[speaker001:] yeah.
[speaker004:] mm hmm.
[speaker006:] that's right.
[speaker004:] And I found that really interesting, and I was curious to [disfmarker] to figure out when that happened, if it happened in certain occasions and whatever, and I never really got around to it, but.
[speaker006:] Do you people [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker006:] I mean, does everyone agree with that intu I mean, I f I s share her intuition that's it's [disfmarker] it is sort of unusual to have "so" used as a final, uh, part of a person's turn.
[speaker005:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker006:] I mean, it's [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] It didn't sound stran
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] I mean, it doesn't sound like bizarre enough that I don't understand.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] But I don't think it's something that happens in just everyday speech really.
[speaker001:] I don't [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] I don't [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] no, I don't agree necessarily.
[speaker004:] Really?
[speaker006:] I was wondering.
[speaker001:] I do it.
[speaker004:] Really?
[speaker001:] Yeah, I trail off with "so".
[speaker004:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Um, I don't necessarily do it as often as the one speaker I'm thinking of, um, but, I do do that because [disfmarker] I think partly because I want to make sure that people know that my [disfmarker] my thought [disfmarker] my utterance is finished,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker001:] but that it's not necessarily final.
[speaker004:] Like that you're flexible?
[speaker001:] Like, you can [disfmarker] Right. Or you can build on it
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker001:] or j d expound on it.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] I think it's sort of a like [disfmarker] you guys can take from here, you know, somebody [disfmarker] somebody build on my thought.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] It's [disfmarker] are you [disfmarker] people also do it with "but".
[speaker001:] It's kinda like a shrug.
[speaker004:] Yeah, but it tends to happen [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] It's like a m it's like a [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] You know?
[speaker004:] I mean, "so" tends to happen when the person brings up a new idea that kind of goes against what the other people is saying.
[speaker001:] so.
[speaker004:] Or at least that's what I found.
[speaker001:] What do you mean?
[speaker004:] Like if someone in a meeting is talking about a certain thing and someone kind of interrupts or doesn't necessarily interrupt and says something [disfmarker] either a new topic or a different take on the same topic will tend to use [disfmarker] will trail off with "so".
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Oh oh oh, yeah, OK.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Uh like [disfmarker] "So, you can see you might be wrong, but I don't want to actually say that."
[speaker006:] Yes, that's possible,
[speaker004:] Yeah,
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] kind of, yeah, yeah.
[speaker006:] yeah.
[speaker003:] Huh.
[speaker006:] Yeah, interesting.
[speaker004:] Yeah. And "or" tends to be used with questions more than [disfmarker] So.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] That's true.
[speaker004:] But. I thought that was really interesting.
[speaker001:] Or y I've heard you say "so", in that sort of sense like uh, um, "So in other words blah blah blah blah."
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Like a sort of an inad
[speaker006:] Of course
[speaker001:] uh, eh [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] b but that's not really an example of this, because they don't just say "so".
[speaker001:] Right,
[speaker005:] u Nnn.
[speaker001:] but [disfmarker] That's true.
[speaker006:] Is that right?
[speaker005:] Ending with "so".
[speaker006:] I mean, s I just wanna be sure.
[speaker001:] Or I [disfmarker] maybe I'm misunderstanding what you were sa
[speaker005:] When you end with "so".
[speaker004:] When you end the utterance.
[speaker001:] When [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] When you say something [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Oh, just [disfmarker] just ending with "so".
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Right, and you say "so".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker006:] Yeah, I c I could get all those extra signatures,
[speaker005:] It [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] but I don't know, so. "
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yeah, to me it's like a vocal shrug.
[speaker005:] It's [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] That's a very nice characterization.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Interesting.
[speaker001:] S sort of.
[speaker004:] I'd definitely like to look more at that if I can, but.
[speaker001:] That's cool.
[speaker002:] Hm hmm.
[speaker005:] I think people end in "but" a lot too. And I feel that that means that they want somebody else to take it up?
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Or somebody just sort of like [disfmarker] you know, take it from here?
[speaker004:] Oh, yeah. Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So, you know, "Blah blah blah blah blah, but."
[speaker004:] " But I'm not really sure
[speaker006:] Once again a sh
[speaker004:] so you can [disfmarker] you could finish my thought. "
[speaker005:] Yeah, so s
[speaker006:] is it a shrug? Would you say [pause] it's another shrug?
[speaker005:] Um,
[speaker006:] Or [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] It's a different kind of shrug though.
[speaker005:] I feel like it [disfmarker] I feel like it sort of, um, asks for somebody else to, uh, put input in now.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I could see that.
[speaker004:] I think it shows less of confident [disfmarker] like less confidence in what they just said
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker003:] Or giving permission?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] in a way.
[speaker001:] Same with "I don't know".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You can also end an utterance with, uh, "blah blah blah but I don't know".
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Like that.
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Like, I feel like maybe that's similar to "but".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] More similar than to "so" I think.
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's interesting.
[speaker001:] To "so", yeah. I think so too.
[speaker006:] Huh. Huh, interesting. What about, um, the way people treat w when they give a joke, I mean, and [disfmarker] and they're like [disfmarker] they laugh and then after the laugh they say, "uh". I mean, if you [disfmarker] so it's like, "ha ha ha uh". I mean [disfmarker] Do you [disfmarker] Have you run across this?
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] And it's like, to me [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I think I've heard comedians do that. There's some there's something there about [disfmarker] you know, you [disfmarker] you make a joke and then you have an "uh" in there somehow, which I don't really understand the function of.
[speaker001:] Maybe it's like saying like, This is funny
[speaker006:] Do you [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] but maybe it shouldn't be funny "or" This is funny but maybe it's funny for some sort of perverse reason ".
[speaker004:] Or maybe it's just a link to get back to the conversation or something?
[speaker003:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Like to connect it with what is going on elsewhere?
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Well, eh how [disfmarker] OK, so the one I'm thinking of is like if like "ha ha" uh, you say [disfmarker] you would say like, um, uh like [disfmarker] OK, so he's laughing "ha ha" and then he'd go "i uh".
[speaker004:] Oh, like kind of [disfmarker] kind of laughing with it
[speaker001:] And [disfmarker] Yeah. Kinda,
[speaker004:] in a way?
[speaker001:] yeah,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] kinda like "Uh." You know.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] And to me that's more of like the [vocalsound] "Maybe this shouldn't be funny but it is. Maybe this is funny because it's kind of disgusting or perverse in some way."
[speaker004:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] Huh. Yeah.
[speaker006:] It's possible, now what I'm thinking [disfmarker] I didn't have the extra [disfmarker] the extra e um, what do you say, nuances in the "uh", which you just [disfmarker] which you just did.
[speaker001:] Wi [disfmarker] Oh, OK.
[speaker006:] However, the context fits. I mean, that's an interesting take on it. I think [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] It's possible. It's possible.
[speaker001:] So you meant just sort of like a [disfmarker] just a normal "uh"?
[speaker006:] It's just a normal "uh". Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] But it's stuck in [disfmarker] maybe it's a little louder than usual. It's not any of the extra, um, you know, glottal thing.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Meaning, "Let's keep going"?
[speaker004:] Maybe it means that.
[speaker006:] Well, but it just seems like it's more prominent than [disfmarker] You know it really is like a placeholder of some sort,
[speaker004:] Uh.
[speaker006:] like [disfmarker] which I think is self reflexive in [disfmarker] in the [disfmarker] sort of brings focus back onto the jokemaker,
[speaker001:] That's [disfmarker] yeah.
[speaker004:] Maybe if [disfmarker] maybe it's when people don't laugh enough or something.
[speaker006:] but [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's possible.
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker001:] Yeah, like, Let's come back to the original subject
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker001:] and I will take it from there ".
[speaker006:] Oh. It could be. Yes, po that's possible.
[speaker001:] Maybe.
[speaker006:] It's possible.
[speaker001:] Cuz I've heard, um, Morgan do that.
[speaker006:] Exactly who I was thinking of actually.
[speaker001:] Yeah, he does that a lot.
[speaker006:] Uh huh. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
[speaker001:] For obvious reasons, probably, if that's the way he uses it.
[speaker006:] That's true, that would [disfmarker] The [disfmarker] And he does continue after that. But it's just [disfmarker] you know, to say "uh" [disfmarker] you kn to say "uh" while you're laughing i it's just to me it's an interesting category.
[speaker005:] Right. I think it may almost have to do with like, "OK, I told a joke, now everyone's laughing, and now it's common courtesy I'll sort of tell everyone to stop laughing, you know, so you don't offend me about how good my joke was." You know, it's almost like, "OK, uh, OK, my joke's over, you know, you can stop laughing now".
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker006:] That's possible.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] Giving them permission to [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah. You know, because it's like [disfmarker] How do you [disfmarker] you know, how much do you laugh after someone's joke
[speaker003:] Hmm!
[speaker004:] I don't know about permission.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[speaker005:] to tell them how much you enjoyed it
[speaker001:] Be polite, or whatever.
[speaker005:] or [disfmarker] Yeah. Or how long do you wait after the joke
[speaker004:] To keep going with the meeting.
[speaker005:] to [disfmarker] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Very interesting. Interesting.
[speaker004:] Cuz sometimes you can get on digressions that just last for like minutes at a time.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker004:] And people are just hysterical and they're like, "What were we talking about? I don't know".
[speaker006:] Yeah, that's [disfmarker] that's [disfmarker] Huh, OK.
[speaker004:] It's hard when people get really really in like into their laughing and start talking at the same time.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] It's hard to figure out what they're doi what they're talking about, and also they don't tend to talk very f there's a lot of disfluencies when they're laughing and talking.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Definitely.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] It's hard to [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Sometimes they make me laugh so hard, because they'll just be talking [comment] about something technical
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] and I'll be so bored and then suddenly they'll say something that they only just sort of chuckle at and then I laugh at for the next like twenty minutes because I think it's so funny. Like one time [comment] everybody was doing the, um, digits, and they were all doing it at the same time, and they started off kind of shaky,
[speaker003:] Oh, right.
[speaker005:] they were like, "Oh, do we wanna do this at the same time, you know, that's [disfmarker] [@ @] [comment] [disfmarker] you know, wh let's not all start laughing" and then they all did it at the same time and one person ended up at the very end doing the digits and everybody had finished
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] and he had like two more lines to go,
[speaker001:] Go [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] and when he ended somebody turned to him and went, "You lose!"
[speaker006:] Oh n
[speaker005:] And I just kept laughing and laughing and laughing.
[speaker001:] Johno keeps making comments about the transcribers.
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] It's the funniest thing.
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker001:] He [disfmarker] he'll like
[speaker003:] What does he say?
[speaker006:] He's very funny.
[speaker001:] say [disfmarker] he'll say like mean things about the transcribers. He'll be like [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Why?
[speaker004:] "Oh, but I don't mean the transcribers we have here of course."
[speaker005:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Like [disfmarker] Well sometimes he'll do that, yeah. But sometimes he doesn't. And sometimes he'll just be like uh, you know, um, "Here, Transcribers, try transcribing this!"
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah, like when they do random sounds that you have no idea [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Like, "Thanks!"
[speaker006:] He's very funny.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] I [disfmarker] I started laughing with something he said the other day, it was [disfmarker] it was the beginning of a meeting and it hadn't gotten far into it and [disfmarker] and he's [disfmarker] he's doing this [disfmarker] one of these mock fights with Nancy, which he does. Have you run across these mock fights?
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] And he s he says, [vocalsound] um, something like, uh, I [disfmarker] i and he's m e they [disfmarker] they have this nice [@ @] [comment] mutual condescending joking thing going on, and he says, "Well, I could explain this to you. I have a better laugh than you do. The transcribers told me so." And it went on a little longer but it's li it's like this really [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Li
[speaker006:] Yeah, and then at one point she [disfmarker] you know, at another meeting, she [disfmarker] she was not sure which channel she was on, and he said, "Well, I think you're on channel so and so" and then she said, "Well, no, sh shouldn't it be channel so and so?" and he says "Well, no, it should be channel so and so". And then it turned out it was channel so and so which he said, and [disfmarker] and she said [disfmarker] he s he said, "I bested you again Nancy". And she said, "Yes, that's my recollection of all of our meetings together".
[speaker004:] Oh my God.
[speaker003:] Oh, no.
[speaker006:] They have this really nice [disfmarker] You know, it's really [disfmarker] Those sorts of things, i it's true, you know, it's like, it really does liven things up to have the, uh, [vocalsound] the nice interrelationships.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] I think [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I found that's a nice aspect of a lot of these meetings, the [disfmarker] eh the, uh, eh little periods of humor like that.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Alright, well, so do we [disfmarker] would [disfmarker] would [disfmarker] we could do digits if we so desired. If w if we wanted to do that.
[speaker003:] Woo hoo!
[speaker001:] Ah, the digits task.
[speaker003:] Let's do simultaneous digits. No, let's [disfmarker] let's not.
[speaker006:] Let's do simultaneous digits.
[speaker001:] We [disfmarker] can somebody explain to me why you do digits?
[speaker003:] No, no, let's not.
[speaker006:] No, you don't?
[speaker001:] I still don't really know.
[speaker006:] OK, the idea is that you have [disfmarker] then, um, you have ground truth, you know exactly what they're supposed to have said, and then of course sometimes we go through and actually, um, people do double check that they read them correctly and all,
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] so that we're sure, as you've done.
[speaker003:] I remember I did that a little bit,
[speaker004:] Yeah, I did that once too.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and, yeah, you must have too.
[speaker004:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker006:] And you [comment] did also?
[speaker002:] We [disfmarker] we are meant to be transcribing if they're just left in the [disfmarker] the curly brackets?
[speaker003:] Kinda early on.
[speaker006:] No, because it's [disfmarker] it's [disfmarker] it should be able to be taken care of efficiently with this interface. I mean, if the T Tigerfish people do it, then, you know, leave it,
[speaker003:] Yeah, they do write the numbers in.
[speaker004:] The [disfmarker] Yeah.
[speaker006:] that's fine.
[speaker004:] Yeah, I've been just leaving it.
[speaker002:] And sometimes they don't.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh, I've been writing the numbers just cuz I wasn't sure what to do.
[speaker006:] Sometimes they don't. Well, if you do that's [disfmarker] that's alright as well.
[speaker005:] Oh, really?
[speaker001:] You don't have to?
[speaker006:] You don't have to.
[speaker001:] Oh, OK.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Because, uh, we're [disfmarker] we have the assumption that we'll take care of it this [disfmarker] in this other way, but In any case, the idea is that you have ground truth,
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker006:] you know exactly what the person should have said and you check to be sure, and usually there aren't many errors [disfmarker] eh w when they were checked. Um, and then, you have this multiplicity of voices, uh, reading these things, and you can do really good speech recognition that way. So they have some papers out that they've done this. It's really [disfmarker] it's been very fruitful in terms of the analyses.
[speaker005:] Huh.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] It's nice to have, you know, a standard [disfmarker] Uh, you know, it's like, uh, psychological approach also that [vocalsound] you like to have some standard stimulus here
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker006:] and then you can [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] No, I totally agree.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] I [disfmarker] I agree, I think it's a nice [disfmarker] it's a nice design feature.
[speaker001:] Where's the little things that's supposed to say "transcript L dash blah blah blah"?
[speaker003:] Oh, it's at the top.
[speaker006:] Yes, you run across that. Let's see, I guess it would be [disfmarker] it's up there.
[speaker005:] It's right here,
[speaker002:] Oh, I see.
[speaker005:] yeah. I looked for that too.
[speaker006:] Uh huh. Up there at the top.
[speaker001:] Ah. Oh. OK.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker003:] So, I have a question.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Cuz now I'm looking at this and I realize I don't know the answer, is, um, sometimes when people are reading "zero", [comment] they say "O",
[speaker006:] Yeah. Yes.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and sometimes they say "zero",
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] but [disfmarker] And I thought that there must be an indication here.
[speaker006:] Used to be.
[speaker004:] That's what I thought too.
[speaker006:] Used to be.
[speaker003:] Oh,
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] that [disfmarker] "read O or read zero".
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker006:] This [disfmarker] they changed them. Initially it was words all spelled out,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] so "ONE" [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] Oh, my!
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker005:] Oh, wow.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] And that was like a Stroop test in some ways. It took a lot of conc When I was doing those I had to really concentrate.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] It was like s "One, s seven" [disfmarker] you know, it was like [disfmarker] You really had to [disfmarker] "let's see, the words and the numbers"
[speaker003:] Yeah, you're not used to seeing the numbers like that.
[speaker006:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] and then you'd have an "OH" periodically and, um, they were initially spelled out that way,
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker006:] one or the other.
[speaker003:] I see, so that's why.
[speaker006:] But we converted them to this format, and then the idea [disfmarker] I mean, you could conceivably put an "OH" or a "zero" for the "O's" and still have this benefit, but I think that the idea is that people can choose what they think is most natural for them to say in those [disfmarker] those locations,
[speaker005:] Right.
[speaker006:] and [disfmarker] you know, maybe there'd be [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] So it's optional.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] You can say one or the other?
[speaker006:] Yes, mm hmm.
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] So, um [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Oh, can I ask also?
[speaker006:] Sure.
[speaker002:] Um, it says [disfmarker] it looks like the groupings are important, but some of the transcripts I've seen they don't have any commas or breaks, it's just a string of numbers. So we should be adding the breaks if [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yes. Well, see [disfmarker] er [disfmarker] also, this has been a [disfmarker] a change in the procedure that [disfmarker] used to be that they were like uh one long string [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Oh, OK.
[speaker006:] different sized strings. But to have them broken up like this, it's [disfmarker] it's m been about uh maybe half a year that [disfmarker] that this [disfmarker] or maybe [disfmarker] maybe seven months, I don't know, maybe longer, [vocalsound] that they've gotten actually broken up within the line.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] So the idea is [@ @] [comment] to pause when you see that.
[speaker004:] But in the transcriptions [disfmarker] I mean, we don't have to deal with that because when the other interface deals with it then they break it up or whatever.
[speaker006:] No. That's right, break it up more finely.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But if you can clearly hear pauses and there've not been transcribed, we should be adding the commas or not? Though the one I'm working on now is like that.
[speaker006:] Well [disfmarker] I would say don't worry about that, because, um, [vocalsound] this is w
[speaker002:] OK.
[speaker006:] again [disfmarker] you know, it [disfmarker] it'd be nice to get the words right, but, um, the [disfmarker] uh, the interface that these guys used, uh, allows you to set the time boundaries really accurately,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] so it's not so important. It's more important to focus on the words, because there we don't know the ground truth.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] So. OK, so [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Are we gonna do them together then? Or no?
[speaker006:] Well, I don't know, how do you feel?
[speaker003:] Yeah, I don't care.
[speaker006:] I mean, what we could do is we could do it together one week
[speaker003:] Whatever.
[speaker006:] and then separate the next or something like that
[speaker003:] Sure.
[speaker006:] to give the variety.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker004:] Whatever.
[speaker006:] We [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Sure.
[speaker006:] why don't we do them together this time just because [disfmarker] in the interest of time, to get you out in time.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker006:] OK, so, um, we just start out, we [disfmarker] and you s you say, "transcript L" whatever it is, and then launch into the numbers and then pause between the gr the gaps
[speaker003:] Sure.
[speaker006:] and then [disfmarker] I guess you're supposed to treat [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Pause after each line?
[speaker006:] Yeah, you s well, you're supposed to treat each line as kind of like a little sentence. What do they say,
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker006:] " Each line into smaller groups. Please read each string as if you were giving it to someone over the telephone using the groupings indicated.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] Pause briefly between lines.
[speaker006:] Yes,
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] there you go.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker006:] OK. So, here we go.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker005:] Alright.
[speaker006:] Ready, set, go.
[speaker005:] Eight three one, seven six, three nine,
[speaker001:] Joel. [vocalsound] I almost started laughing cuz you were cracking up.
[speaker005:] And I only started laughing when I had one batch of numbers left, and I couldn't get it.
[speaker004:] Oh no.
[speaker003:] Aw! I'm just happy I didn't make any mistakes.
[speaker001:] He [disfmarker] You almost made me mess up.
[speaker005:] Um.
[speaker002:] It was hard!
[speaker003:] Oh yeah? That's why I [disfmarker] that's why I sat back here, I was like, "I didn't want [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I don't wanna look at you people." [vocalsound] To read it.
[speaker005:] I it just c
[speaker006:] That's right. It's [disfmarker] it's funny how distracting it is, you know? It's like there's no content.
[speaker002:] It is.
[speaker004:] It is, it's hard.
[speaker005:] It is.
[speaker001:] Ye he almost made me mess up.
[speaker006:] Did y did you finish your last batch? OK.
[speaker005:] I finished my last one, it was really hard though.
[speaker004:] OK, good.
[speaker006:] You're right in the middle of it, yeah. I'm on the edge.
[speaker005:] Yeah. I mean, I got all the way down and then the very last one came and I was like, "I haven't laughed." [vocalsound] And then I was [@ @]. And then I just couldn't help it.
[speaker004:] Yeah. You did?
[speaker003:] Oh, no. Oh, that's the killer.
[speaker006:] OK, well, I wanna thank you very much, and um, look f and so we'll meet next week at the same time, u unless [disfmarker] I mean, I g I need to check on the schedule but I think, um,
[speaker004:] Good.
[speaker003:] Alright then.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker004:] OK, so unless we hear from you.
[speaker006:] The same [disfmarker] same time or within an hour ra of it.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker002:] OK.
[speaker003:] Sounds good.
[speaker006:] Good.
[speaker005:] Sounds good, yeah.
[speaker006:] Great. Thanks very much.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker003:] OK. Signing off.
[speaker005:] Alright.
[speaker006:] Signing off.
[speaker001:] Bye. I love you, man.