[speaker006:] We have littler heads so.
[speaker005:] OK. So, everything's [disfmarker] Oh, the microphone adjustments, we should check [disfmarker] Would you check the microphone adjustments, please? Is [disfmarker] is M So, is [disfmarker] is Marisa's close enough? We [disfmarker] could we look [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I'm [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Hmm?
[speaker005:] But, I mean, also, to get the [disfmarker] do [disfmarker] you [disfmarker] you [disfmarker] what you said about [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yes.
[speaker005:] is i is it close [disfmarker]? OK. Alright.
[speaker003:] Hello.
[speaker002:] Hello?
[speaker004:] I can change it.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] But this w You know, he's, like, the expert,
[speaker004:] I was just trying a new head position.
[speaker005:] and I don't know exactly, uh [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker001:] OK. I see.
[speaker002:] Hello? OK.
[speaker003:] Hello.
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] It's interesting.
[speaker003:] Hello. That's good.
[speaker005:] Hello? Yeah. Your voice is so [disfmarker] is so [disfmarker] i it's like, s you can see across all the channels when you talk.
[speaker001:] Hello.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker001:] OK. Mine's good.
[speaker002:] Hello?
[speaker005:] It's great. Thanks very much. Thanks very much. Alright. So. Uh, welcome back. Thank you for coming. Um, so, what I thought we'd do today is pick up where we were last time and maybe, uh, go over some [disfmarker] some ideas about, um, well, i the [disfmarker] return to the conventions, but I also wanted to, uh, [vocalsound] share with you a couple of the things that I've picked up in terms of checking. And these are [disfmarker] uh, th these are things that came up with the tra with the Tigerfish transcripts. I'm just doing this cuz I think it's interesting. OK. So, um, I have an example
[speaker003:] OK. [@ @] Not sure. Thank you.
[speaker002:] Oh, there's [disfmarker] Hold on.
[speaker005:] which [disfmarker] um, [vocalsound] so there're a couple of examples. I have one in front of you which is the one where, um, um, u Leah [disfmarker] Leah noticed this one where I said something and, um, the transcriber interpreted it as "twosome gruesome, uh, different sizes different this", and, um, actually what I meant to say was um, "so you're saying groups of different sizes, different size groups?"
[speaker003:] Whoa.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Wow!
[speaker005:] I I [disfmarker] It's really enormously far away. Now this [disfmarker] this could be one of those cases where the auditory was just really bad.
[speaker004:] That's what I was just thinking, or maybe it was really quiet or something? I don't know.
[speaker005:] Maybe very [disfmarker] very soft. Maybe with the microphone noise,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] or something from someone else, or an overlap,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] or [disfmarker] but they're not usually that bad, I [disfmarker] I don't think.
[speaker006:] Mm mmm.
[speaker005:] Then, um, I have a couple of others. So, there's one, um [disfmarker] So, the person said, "interesting idea", but Tigerfish thought it was, "uh, just an idea". Now that changes the meaning.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] It's interesting.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker005:] And then there are various ones like, um, [vocalsound] um, "ish decay" instead of "HTK".
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker004:] Ugh!
[speaker005:] And now this one [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] i "Ish decay"?
[speaker005:] "Ish decay". Now "ish" was in parentheses [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] "Ish decay."
[speaker006:] Yeah, what's an "ish"?
[speaker005:] Well they [disfmarker] they [disfmarker] they were suspicious that wasn't right, but that was the closest they could come.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] And, you know, with [disfmarker] when you're dealing with acronyms,
[speaker004:] Wow.
[speaker005:] that's [disfmarker] that's [disfmarker] that shows one of the problems with acronyms.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Is that it's clear if you know it,
[speaker004:] I wonder if that was someone who was [disfmarker] who had an accent, maybe?
[speaker005:] but [disfmarker] Always conceivable. I don't remember off hand. I did check the example. And, um, well, and this [disfmarker] this would be consistent. So, uh, it was transcribed as "with H", but it was really "with age".
[speaker004:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] Yeah. And, uh, then there are some where actually punctuation changes the meaning. So, this is [disfmarker] the these are things that Barbara show uh, found. "Spurts wouldn't be right" was what it looked like. But, actually when you listen to it, it would be "Spurts wouldn't be. Right?"
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Oh. That's very subtle.
[speaker005:] A It is subtle. And yet, you know, it's like [disfmarker] [comment] And instead of [disfmarker] instead of "and it's" they put "Annette's".
[speaker001:] Annette's?
[speaker005:] Now this [disfmarker] this is interesting because it's like, you know, we know that there's no Annette on any of the meetings we've ever dealt with,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker005:] but, um, it's, you know, conceivable.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] And then, um, let's see. There's one other here I thought was interesting. Well this was [disfmarker] OK, so it should have been "the quals w the [disfmarker] the quals slides will be fine". This is Jerry Feldman. And, uh, instead it was transcribed with "the" and then an uncertain syllable "the [disfmarker] the" and then "all the slides will be fine".
[speaker003:] Ah.
[speaker005:] Which is interesting.
[speaker006:] Oh.
[speaker005:] And [disfmarker] and, you know, this was a case where the timebin was off.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] I wanted to bring an example where th
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] So "all the slides" it's w started too late.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] It's another case of devoicing at the initial [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] Yeah. So, I thought that was very interesting. And I think that it shows, um [disfmarker] these sorts of things, I was thinking it would be interesting to do an analysis of these things because I think that, um, if [disfmarker] well first of all, there's this overall point that it shows a degree to which, when you listen to speech, and when you're just, in general, listening, probably, but it shows espec specifically this [disfmarker] to this task, that it's very constructive. You're not going on simply the auditory there's a huge contribution from the top down processing, and the [disfmarker] you know, e different types. You've got the contextual information, you have syntax, you have your mastery of English, and these various things. But I think these kinds of errors, it just shows the degree which it's not strictly an acoustic task.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm. Yeah.
[speaker004:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker005:] And the other thing I think that's interesting is, the types of [disfmarker] the types of confusions that happen, um, do preserve certain aspects of the stimulus.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So, the stress tends to be preserved, you know, the content word will be substituted for another content word, and, um, It's [disfmarker] it's not surprising that they would hear this. I'm o I'm often surprised by how [disfmarker] how plausible something can be with [disfmarker] without it being correct.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Because it really seems like it's [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] And then often, you know, i it's, um, i there's ex the parentheses are used, so the person knew it wasn't really a perfect match.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] But, uh. OK. Now having said that I'm [disfmarker] I'm impressed by h how [disfmarker] by how, um [disfmarker] well, how infrequent these [disfmarker] these kinds of extreme cases are. Most of the types of things that I find in checking are much [disfmarker] much more mild. Yeah. So [disfmarker] so.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Do you wanna [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Actually, that comes back to a point. We had talked about this last week, where you were interested in "so".
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Saying "so" at the end of something.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] And sometimes that would get transcribed as [disfmarker] OK, so, let me just think of an example. Um, OK, let's say I say, "Well, that would be hard to do, so."
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] OK, right? And the way I would transcribe it, I would put that "so that would be hard", comma, "so" at the end.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Cuz it's kind of just the end of that [disfmarker] the [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mm hmm. Would you put a period after "so"?
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker001:] You would or you wouldn't?
[speaker006:] "So." Yeah. Yeah, I would just sort of end it.
[speaker001:] Yes. Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] But then sometimes they transcribe it like "So that would be a problem", period, new word, like [disfmarker] capitalized "So".
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Oh, like it's a whole new utterance. Like it's not connected.
[speaker006:] Right. And [disfmarker] and it just seems to sotal totally [disfmarker] that [disfmarker] that's not the meaning.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] And [disfmarker] and it changes the meaning, I think. Um [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] In a way [disfmarker] So, uh, let me be sure I understand. So, you're saying [disfmarker] [vocalsound] s boy, it's hard to ig uh, ignoi that [disfmarker] ignore that word.
[speaker001:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] Um, So y the example is, "That would be hard" [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Or whatever, yeah, "that would be a problem",
[speaker005:] "That'd be a problem,"
[speaker006:] whatever.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] "so."
[speaker006:] "So."
[speaker005:] And how does it change the meaning? What's [disfmarker] what are the two different meanings there?
[speaker006:] It seems like [disfmarker] because if I was just reading that thing, I would say, "So that would be a problem. [pause] So."
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker006:] You know what I mean? Th if [disfmarker] if it was like, "period, capital SO", as opposed to, um, "That would be a problem, so."
[speaker005:] Oh, I see what you're saying!
[speaker006:] "That would be a problem. [pause] So."
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] It [disfmarker] it [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] I think the second one where the "so" is all by itself, it's like, "So that would be a problem. [pause] So." You know, the "so" is like disconnected from the [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Some
[speaker003:] Right, as though it's leading into something else.
[speaker004:] It's like [disfmarker] kind of like introducing [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yeah, the first one is [disfmarker] like, the "so" is connected to the sentence,
[speaker003:] Bu [disfmarker] And [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] and [disfmarker] "That'd be a problem, so."
[speaker003:] yeah. I
[speaker001:] You know, it's [disfmarker] but the next one is like not [disfmarker] not connected to "that would be a problem". It's like, "So."
[speaker004:] It's like introducing a new thing that they don't talk about.
[speaker003:] A new subject.
[speaker001:] Yeah, less [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Right, yeah.
[speaker003:] The first one, too, is more like [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] So [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] To me, I don't necessarily put, um, like a d a p a p a period after that "so". I might actually either put a dash after it depending on whether or not they got unt interrupted or something,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] or I would maybe even act as though they were, um, just trailing off.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] So put that [disfmarker] those two dots after it.
[speaker001:] I do that too.
[speaker003:] Um, uh, which depending on what's going on, like, I'll do that.
[speaker001:] I
[speaker003:] Cuz to me it sounds more like they're trailing off.
[speaker001:] Right. Sometimes, though, it does sound like they ended a sentence
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and then I do [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] like sometimes it's just like, "That'd be hard, so".
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker001:] You know, and but [disfmarker] and then ofte often it sounds like they were trying to think of something else to say,
[speaker003:] Right. Yeah.
[speaker001:] but they couldn't really, you know [disfmarker] And then they get interrupted and then I put a dash.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yep.
[speaker001:] You know, but I never usually put period and then new word "so" unless it's like, end of the sentence and then, "So."
[speaker004:] "What are we gonna do now," but they don't say that.
[speaker001:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] It's [disfmarker] it's interesting that there are so many cases. And I agree. I th I think those are very good conventions. I also like w you know, this [disfmarker] this whole point about how [disfmarker] how that y th th the fact that you're raising this, I [disfmarker] li I like this example that, um, we have several things that are being cued by intonation,
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker005:] because if [disfmarker] if that's a f nice full falling intonational contour on "that's a problem",
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] "eh, that'll be a problem". then I would think that there should be a period there.
[speaker003:] Period. Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] And then especially if you've got a pause following it, but you don't always [disfmarker] y these things are correlated but they're not perfect.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] That's another thing, is i if you're not a native speaker of English you might not pick up, because, uh, you know, every language has different, um, intonation mappings.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah. That's always one of the hardest parts about the native speakers,
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] And [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] is you don't know exactly like how to do the punctuation
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] because their intonation is totally different.
[speaker005:] You mean non native na Non native speakers?
[speaker001:] I mean [disfmarker] Non native speakers is what I meant. Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
[speaker003:] And also if you're a non native speaker transcribing it, you wouldn't necessarily [vocalsound] kn uh, kn understand the conventions of English t intonation as, you know, intimately as a native speaker might.
[speaker001:] Yeah. That's true. Right. Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Well, I would hope they would have native speaker transcribers transcribing.
[speaker005:] Ideally, wouldn't that be something. I ideally it would be nice to have like a Spaniard t tran transcribing the [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Oh [disfmarker] y yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh, is that what you mean? Or [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] No, that's not what I meant,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker004:] but that would be cool.
[speaker005:] That'd be nice.
[speaker004:] No, what I meant was that I would hope that, for meetings in English you would have native speakers transcribing it because it [disfmarker] you would have more intuitions about what should be there.
[speaker005:] I agree.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] n Yeah.
[speaker004:] Even if you can't fully understand the word, you can make a guess, you can [disfmarker] that isn't completely off like some of these are,
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] but they're pretty rare [disfmarker] those things, the f
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] the really bad mistakes that they make are pretty rare I think, so.
[speaker005:] I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] OK So, in terms of like when you're going through the Tigerfish transcripts, you don't find a lot of these kinds of extreme cases?
[speaker004:] Not this [disfmarker] t t
[speaker003:] Not so much. No.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker004:] I mean [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mmm, not "twosome gruesome".
[speaker004:] No, not "twosome gruesome". Sometimes, but [disfmarker] they tend to be pretty good about parentheses.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Good. Good to hear.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, sometimes they p they usually put them in prethen parentheses, and you think to yourself, You were way off,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] but at least you knew you were way off. "
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Exactly.
[speaker006:] Yeah. I just wonder, like, what influences them to think of "twosome gruesome",
[speaker005:] Good.
[speaker006:] like maybe this person just saw a horror movie or something? And, uh, this is [vocalsound] the interpretation that came to mind or something?
[speaker005:] It's [disfmarker] Could be.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] You know what I mean? Like, where would you get the word "gruesome"?
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker006:] You know, you just sort of pull it out of the air?
[speaker004:] Well, I mean, you get the "GR" from "groups", I guess,
[speaker006:] Anyway.
[speaker004:] but
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I don't know where the rest of it came from.
[speaker001:] Uh, "groups of", "gruesome".
[speaker003:] g Group.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker003:] "Groups of", "gruesome".
[speaker001:] You've got the, uh, "S" in the middle.
[speaker003:] Yeah. If you [disfmarker] if for some reason they didn't hear the "F", if they didn't hear the "fuh", [comment] it might just sound like [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] "Gruesome".
[speaker003:] Yeah, "grou" uh, "gruesuh".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's both labial [pause] at the end.
[speaker006:] Mmm hmm.
[speaker003:] You know. And then you would kind of have to come up with some sort of consonant
[speaker004:] "Groups of" [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] and maybe it's an "M" to you.
[speaker004:] Well, also [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker004:] "Group of, groups of, groups [pause] of, group [disfmarker] s"
[speaker003:] "Fff". [comment] Because also, I mean, "F" is "Fff". [comment] is, um, [vocalsound] "Fff".
[speaker001:] Gruesome [pause] groups of [pause] gruesome [pause] groups of
[speaker004:] I wonder where the "P" went, though?
[speaker003:] Right. "Fff". [comment] Because it's [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Maybe the "P" wasn't pronounced very well,
[speaker004:] Yeah?
[speaker006:] "Pss".
[speaker001:] like "groups of"
[speaker003:] Yeah, because it's, um, bilabial too. "Fff". [comment] you know, you'll di uh, or interl interdental, "fff".
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] you know, it's close enough, I guess, to "mmm", [comment] you know.
[speaker004:] Nnn, I guess.
[speaker003:] You're getting the closure of the lips. So maybe that's [vocalsound] what they were do getting. I don't know.
[speaker004:] It's possible.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Well, you know, there's also this problem that they didn't have context to constrain the interpretation,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] cuz [disfmarker] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that's really hard,
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker001:] th to not be able to go and listen to the other channels and figure out the context of what it's occurring in.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah, when I'm clearing the par parentheses, I find that very useful. I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] sometimes I try to just go through and pick up the parentheses,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] see if I can do it just by itself, but it [disfmarker] it's remarkable how sometimes something can be so totally opaque, and then you go back to, you know, the person's previous utterance or you go to the mixed channel, or you, uh, check on the other things and suddenly it becomes perfectly clear.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] It's very [disfmarker] very surprising. Very surprising.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Good.
[speaker006:] But this other business, um, that you have at the bottom with people getting transcribed on another channel
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker006:] is, uh [disfmarker] is much more common.
[speaker004:] Is that what it's about? I wasn't [disfmarker] I couldn't u I don't know, for some reason that didn't make sense to me. But th it's about when things are transcribed on other channels than what they're set on?
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker006:] And what's always funny to me is when it's th you know, they m mi miss the gender completely, like, you know, Morgan'll be on Jane's channel, or just something bizarre like that.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Um, so.
[speaker003:] Well, maybe it's because they don't realize that you're supposed to sp Do they? I mean, maybe they don't really realize that you're supposed to split it up. Or something like, they maybe think, "Well, I hear it just as clearly [disfmarker] I hear this other person's voice just as clearly and I realize it's not Jane, and I realize it's not a female even, but, um, because it's so clear on this channel, I'm supposed to transcribe it."
[speaker004:] I'm supposed to do it.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] h [comment] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I [disfmarker] I'd imagine that's p that might be what that is.
[speaker004:] They probably don't even know how many people are at the meeting, or w anything.
[speaker005:] Yeah, it's really a an odd task in [disfmarker] in a way because they're [disfmarker] they have no clues at all about how dominant the speaker is on the channel they're transcribing.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] And the pre segmenter doesn't give them any or the information eith either. I'm [disfmarker] I'm sure that it's because of the [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Wow.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] We're [disfmarker] we're really spoiled, then, with our interface here,
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] Fancy schmancy.
[speaker004:] right?
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I mean [disfmarker] s it's very useful.
[speaker006:] If I was gonna make just a guess, though, from my experience it would seem like the men get mis um,
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker006:] the men get moved onto other channels, maybe more frequently. And it's just probably cuz they have deeper voices and they're getting picked up on more channels, um, than their own channel.
[speaker005:] That would make [disfmarker] that would make some sense.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Um, for w you know, it's an acoustic thing.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker004:] Or they just tend to sp peak [comment] louder, maybe?
[speaker003:] That's true. They do [disfmarker] they do say that m men's voices c carry better.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I mean, that's why they use, like, I think who was telling me? Ian Maddieson was talking about this, that they use male voices in, um, [vocalsound] in, um, airports.
[speaker005:] Oh!
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Because the acoustics of it [disfmarker] it just fits into the hea a hearer's range [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] For announcements and things?
[speaker003:] Yeah, that's th It fits into a hearer's range of perception, um, better than a lot of female voices.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] And so that's why they use male voices. We were just talking about that.
[speaker004:] They should do that at BART, too, because sometimes it's hard to hear.
[speaker005:] I see.
[speaker002:] And now they have those strange computerized voices that n
[speaker005:] So
[speaker004:] Yeah. Those are [disfmarker] i a w actually probably just the computer problem
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] not the gender problem.
[speaker005:] Huh. So [disfmarker] so this means that people with hearing problems would hear, uh, uh, one of these announcements better if it were a male voice then.
[speaker003:] d Yeah, depending on their auditory, um, capabilities.
[speaker005:] Uh huh.
[speaker003:] I mean, if their auditory capabilities, uh, have been, you know, um, squished down [vocalsound] like in a certain place where it would be n easier for a person with normal, [comment] um, hearing to hear a male's voice, um, like if [disfmarker] I'm saying if [disfmarker] if they [disfmarker] d if they had a [disfmarker] some sort of, um, you know, damage to part of their brain that processes auditory information, then [disfmarker] and, i uh, e i u if that part of the brain normally codes for, you know, male voices, uh, in a normal hearer, [comment] then they might not be able to. You know. Does that make sense?
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Like if that part is damaged. So, but, um [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Selective.
[speaker003:] but yeah, if [disfmarker] I guess for most h hearers it's just easier. And it's like a certain, uh, kind of, like, rough male voice too, kind of graspy [disfmarker] raspy, I mean,
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] apparently.
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Is better?
[speaker003:] Is better.
[speaker005:] Ah, it's a wider band then. Because of [disfmarker] do you think it might be from the [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah, I guess so.
[speaker005:] She asked this question last time which was, um, whether our system here, the recording system, may have some of the same channel restr some sort of s channel restrictions, such as they ran across when they were looking at telephone, uh, transmissions at a certain point. Cuz, you know, telephone transmissions, um, there's some filtering going on. You don't hear the full [disfmarker] the full band of frequencies.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] And, w uh v I asked c a couple of people and they c answer came back that [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] It's really interesting.
[speaker005:] It was intere an interesting [disfmarker] it's reminded me because of the comment about noise, noise being sp really spreading frequencies across, uh, using frequencies across a broader spectrum.
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] So in a way, bandwidth can increase with some of these cases of distortion that we have. But it's n it's not a useful kind of increase [vocalsound] in frequency range.
[speaker003:] Right. Yeah. I was just saying that it, like, you know, sometimes, um, if [disfmarker] Remember I was saying, like, if there's a discrepancy between fricatives, you know, like, um, "shuh" [comment] or "suh" [comment] will show up in a certain part of the spectrum, and [disfmarker] and, uh, oftentimes the "fuh" [comment] is like knocked out of the spectrum by [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah. By filtering or something?
[speaker003:] um, by filtering in some of the older phones.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] And that's why, like he
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] So what was the answer here? It [disfmarker] that's not the case?
[speaker005:] Answer?
[speaker003:] That they don't [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] That they [disfmarker] that they don't. We don't have a reduction in that direction.
[speaker004:] Oh, OK.
[speaker003:] Y right.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker004:] Good.
[speaker005:] That, uh, I mean, you know, one could have if one had cheaper microphones than we have, but we've got good microphones
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] and another [disfmarker] there is sort of an upper limit set on our bandwidth by the sampling rate but then that becomes [disfmarker] So Adam's ans that [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] then it becomes a matter of, Is that something that would be relevant to perceptual range. And, I didn't really have the sense that it would.
[speaker003:] I didn't get that from him, actually. I felt like, um, he's basically saying that for our [disfmarker] for all intents and purposes with this, it's covering whatever sounds are necessary to be covered, like everything.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Good. I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] that was my impression also.
[speaker003:] That's [disfmarker] that's what I th
[speaker005:] It wa so we don't have that kind of reduction like you have on telephones. And actually in the work that they were doing with the telephone corpora, they did run into limitations and [disfmarker] uh, certain types that they [disfmarker] when [disfmarker] what their speech recognition approach is because of the [disfmarker] of the filtering.
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] I mean it does seem like when I hear these things, except for the distortion parts, where the volume's too high, or th of course when the volume's too low, but that's a different problem, um, except for those cases, it seems to me that it really is as if the person were speaking in my ear. I don't feel that it's being reduced in any way.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah, that's what it seems like.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah, I do too. Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah? And he was saying in the [disfmarker] in the, uh, areas where you have clipping, where it's recorded too high, and [disfmarker] and it [vocalsound] starts to saturate and you have trouble,
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker005:] um [disfmarker] I thought that was very interesting. So bandwidth then gets [disfmarker] gets actually wider instead of narrower because you have, um [disfmarker] Uh oh. You have these [disfmarker] y y you still have [disfmarker] The frequencies are represented but the energy distributions are thrown off, and, um, in fact you have also some additional frequencies. So you end up with a wider bandwidth functionally, I mean [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah. So, like, you were saying, like [disfmarker] in the case of something with clipping,
[speaker005:] But not helpful for speech.
[speaker003:] does it [disfmarker] were you saying that, uh [disfmarker] it [disfmarker] it increases to [disfmarker] or, expands to accommodate that? Or,
[speaker005:] No, technically, the bandwidth is wider than [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] no?
[speaker005:] so it's actually paradoxical in a way cuz you usually think bandwidth [disfmarker] better bandwidth is better.
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] But in the cases of [disfmarker] of distortion than you can end up with,
[speaker003:] Right. Oh, OK. Yeah.
[speaker005:] uh,
[speaker003:] I see what you're saying.
[speaker005:] a wider bandwidth which isn't useful in terms of understanding speech.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] So.
[speaker004:] I have a question.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker004:] In the [disfmarker] [vocalsound] some of the earlier meetings I guess, there was a lot of spikes, or what I called spikes.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker004:] I was wondering what that is. I don't even know if it's relevant or useful to know, but I'm just curious.
[speaker005:] One source was, there was a problem with a connection where the microphone went int went into a box [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] I was trying [disfmarker] trying to think of this as prior to [disfmarker] yes, it was prior to the wireless. There was a particular connection which wasn't wireless, which was, um, mechanically bad in some [disfmarker] some sense,
[speaker004:] Loose. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and if it got touched, it would s it would send an impulse,
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] i in al an uh [disfmarker] an irrelevant non wanted [vocalsound] artifact.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Cuz those ones sometimes were extraordinarily bad and pai
[speaker003:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Painful. Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I agree. Absolutely painful.
[speaker001:] They were painful.
[speaker005:] Exa I agree.
[speaker003:] Uh [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] And that's [disfmarker] that's th you know, I would watch the visual sis signal to avoid that.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah,
[speaker005:] It's like [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and like not listen to them.
[speaker003:] I do remember those, actually.
[speaker001:] And then you see it, and off with the headphones!
[speaker006:] Yeah, you could see it coming and you'd turn the volume down or something.
[speaker004:] Or just uh s
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember I had one. One with that and it was just, al all the time.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Or, like, skip it entirely. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Especially if they also got louder [comment] too, [comment] and they hit it,
[speaker004:] Y y yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh!
[speaker003:] it was just like "whoahh!"
[speaker005:] Yeah. That's really awful. You've noticed that those have gotten better over the intervening [disfmarker]?
[speaker004:] Yes. Absolutely.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah. Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker005:] Good.
[speaker006:] But sometimes you'll see like something coming up like, "Uh oh. Someone's gonna cough really loudly", and I could tell because of the way it looks!
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Or "someone's about to laugh really loudly",
[speaker004:] And so you turn it down?
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Oh.
[speaker006:] um [disfmarker] yeah,
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[speaker006:] and then you're just sort you've got like [disfmarker] you know [vocalsound] [disfmarker] you're sort of like
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Take one off, or something.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] No, a I think [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] So unless there's gonna be some speech in there, I don't think I need to listen that carefully.
[speaker004:] I think that's really important. Yeah, I think that's really important
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] because I generally have the volume turned up to above normal volume just so I can hear more clearly,
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm. Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] and if it's like that for someone screeching into the microphone than it would be really painful.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] You could h really hurt your ears. Yeah.
[speaker004:] I think you could, yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker005:] I think so too.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker005:] Yeah, I [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah, that's [disfmarker] Especially [disfmarker] we have really good headphones,
[speaker005:] when I realized [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] like [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] yeah, when I realized, I [disfmarker] I meant to tell everyone to watch that visual signal cuz that's [disfmarker] that's saved me a bunch of times.
[speaker006:] Gives some good clues, yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah, I mean, it's very useful in like all senses cuz [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Oh yeah. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] It's very good.
[speaker006:] Sometimes it doesn't pick up backchannelling, though, and so sometimes you have to, um, try to listen [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] No. Or, turn up
[speaker006:] there's no visual but [disfmarker] Yeah, you have to [disfmarker] the resolution, right?
[speaker004:] Yeah. Or, like [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] It might be useful to [disfmarker] to talk about the interface for [disfmarker] for a bit,
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker005:] in terms of what it is that you like particularly, and what you don't,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and, uh, that kind of thing.
[speaker001:] You know what I would think would be a really n um, neat feature for the interface? Some sort of backwards tab where it could go backwards without you having to go up and do it manually,
[speaker005:] Ooh, interesting.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] T Yeah.
[speaker001:] and, you know, press the button and "juh juh juh juh juh juh juh".
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Cuz if you miss something [comment] and you wanna go back to it, it's such a [disfmarker] such a hassle.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] That's true.
[speaker001:] It'd be so nice if there was just some sort of like, you know, uh, opposite of tab that you could hit, that it would just sort of move backwards. There wouldn't even have to be any, um [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] But it would play it backwards too.
[speaker001:] I know. It w you wouldn't even have to have the audio. That's not [disfmarker] I wouldn't [disfmarker] I mean [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] But just to move back, but not necessarily a whole timebin?
[speaker006:] Just to jump it back.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Interesting.
[speaker006:] Right, cuz sometimes you'll hear [disfmarker] It'll be in [disfmarker] right in the middle of the timebin,
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] and you don't have to listen to the whole thing again
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] cuz you've already gotten the first part.
[speaker001:] Right
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah. Yeah.
[speaker006:] So you just want it to go back, I don't know [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yeah, some [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] And otherwise you have to drag it.
[speaker001:] Yeah, some timebins are humongous,
[speaker004:] Or otherwise, drag it, or like click on it.
[speaker001:] and if you miss it, you know, you've gotta go back and find it,
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] and dragging it and looking for it and you may not be able to see it, even.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know?
[speaker006:] That's true.
[speaker004:] I think that would be useful.
[speaker006:] Hmm. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Interesting idea. I'll [disfmarker] I'll s I'll suggest that to the charer.
[speaker006:] Yeah, the less you have to click on the mouse, I think the faster you could go.
[speaker004:] Yeah, because I noticed I started feeling like I was getting some sort of carpal tunnel issues.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Yeah, you were having some wrist problems and stuff,
[speaker004:] Much better now that I have the keyboard st tray,
[speaker006:] right?
[speaker004:] but it was [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I think cuz I had my hand in one position using it all the time.
[speaker001:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] And that I would [disfmarker] it would crack [pause] a lot.
[speaker006:] Yeah. Ooh!
[speaker004:] It was very weird.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] But.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] That's [disfmarker] it's good to be careful about the mousing. You were gonna say?
[speaker003:] I s Oh, yeah. Um, something [disfmarker] Um, maybe I just don't know how to do this,
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] but when I wanna expand a timebin back
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] or even forward, I'll use the mouse, the middle [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] How do you mean "expand"? What do you mean by "expand"?
[speaker003:] Oh, uh, in terms of, um, if, uh [disfmarker] if it's [disfmarker] it's [disfmarker] if it's cut off, like the beginning of an utterance,
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Oh. I see what you're saying.
[speaker005:] OK. OK.
[speaker003:] I'll move it [disfmarker] move the line back.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] And I usually just use the mouse. How do you do that with the keyboard?
[speaker001:] Mmm. Really? Oh, I do that with the keyboard.
[speaker004:] Well, I would press "tab"
[speaker006:] I do that with the mouse, yeah.
[speaker004:] and listen to where I wanted it to stop,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] and then press "return", create a new timebin,
[speaker001:] "Return" and then [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Oh. [pause] y
[speaker004:] and then "shift" [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] and then "shift"
[speaker004:] "shift", what is it?
[speaker001:] "backspace".
[speaker003:] Oh, OK. So you just do it that way.
[speaker004:] "Shift", "backspace" to c collapse it, yeah.
[speaker001:] That's [disfmarker] that's what I do,
[speaker003:] OK. OK.
[speaker001:] yeah. I do it all on the keyboard.
[speaker006:] Oh.
[speaker003:] OK. To me that's takes longer than to do it with the mouse.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Oh. Do you drag [disfmarker] do you drag the line?
[speaker001:] Oh really?
[speaker003:] Because you can just click [disfmarker] y
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I just drag the line.
[speaker004:] See, I never [disfmarker] I never do that for some reason.
[speaker001:] I don't do that either.
[speaker002:] I didn't n even [disfmarker] even know you could do that.
[speaker005:] I vary. I [disfmarker] I should [disfmarker] it depends on how much I wanna go back
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] and how certain the boundary is. If I can see it [disfmarker] if it's [disfmarker] if I can see this thing's coming up and it's just so clear,
[speaker003:] Oh yeah, that's true.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] it's that mountain right there, I can tell, then [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right, then I'll drag it.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] yeah, dragging is really f efficient. But if it's like a mess in there, then it helps me to be able to locate it with the actual clicking.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] And then do this [disfmarker] what th you were just describing.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] But, um [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Um, one thing that's gotten me into problems a little bit is having the "shift backspace" as the collapser.
[speaker003:] Ah. Yeah.
[speaker004:] Because I'll tend to delete things,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] or go too far, or something,
[speaker002:] Ni
[speaker004:] or I'll be holding down "shift" because I wanna type something as a capital,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Oh yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yep. Yep, yep, yep.
[speaker004:] and then end up collapsing the timebins.
[speaker001:] And [disfmarker] and then collapse it.
[speaker003:] Yep. Yep.
[speaker001:] I did that so much.
[speaker004:] So, it might be better to use a different keys or something.
[speaker005:] Oh that's annoying!
[speaker003:] Yep.
[speaker005:] This [disfmarker] if I were to [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] if I were to add an option, it might be to have an undo for that.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah!
[speaker002:] Oh, that'd be good. That would be good.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Because I have had that happen.
[speaker001:] Yeah. That would be nice.
[speaker003:] That would be great.
[speaker004:] Or just, I mean [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah, s Good.
[speaker003:] I've erased entire utterances before, accidentally.
[speaker004:] but, or just to change the keys used, you know, for [disfmarker] for that option.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I'm rather used to it now, though.
[speaker004:] I'm used to it too, but, I mean [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] But then when you go to type on your keyboard at home,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm. [vocalsound] You're so scared,
[speaker003:] do you do this too? I'm so scared. Like I [vocalsound] [disfmarker] I won't hold shift down [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] To [disfmarker] to hold shift down while you're backspacing? Like [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] I won't do it.
[speaker001:] Yeah. You're typing capitals, and you're backspacing, and you're like "[vocalsound] Oh, take the shift off! I'll collapse everything!"
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! I'm just like, "What am I doing?"
[speaker001:] I totally do that now.
[speaker004:] I don't think I'm that bad, but [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker006:] Oh yeah, I do find that the keyboard is different here than it is even at my s for my school computer
[speaker005:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] and so I'll al I'll just be [disfmarker] if I was just at school, and I come here, it's just [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Oh yeah.
[speaker006:] or vice versa it's just, uh [disfmarker] it's like I'll [disfmarker] I'll reach for one key and it'll do something completely different,
[speaker001:] Or vice versa, yeah.
[speaker006:] and I have to just get used [disfmarker] just get used to it again [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker001:] Th that backspace and the little [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah, the backspace is in the wrong place.
[speaker001:] and the [disfmarker] th yeah, that little evil [vocalsound] apostrophe that keeps showing up.
[speaker002:] The little accent thingy. Right.
[speaker001:] "I don't want you!"
[speaker004:] Yeah, I do that too.
[speaker006:] Oh yeah, and then I'll keep [disfmarker] I keep caps locking too
[speaker005:] Oh.
[speaker006:] cuz the caps lock's in a different spot.
[speaker001:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker005:] How do you get per I don't know the evil apostrophe.
[speaker004:] It's just th right above the [pause] backspace.
[speaker001:] Um, [vocalsound] yeah, it's one of the backspaces on the keyboards that most of us are probably used to.
[speaker006:] Th
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh, oh!
[speaker001:] So you wanna backspace and you get apostrophe, apostrophe, apostrophe, apostrophe.
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah, t you're like, "No!"
[speaker005:] I see.
[speaker006:] Oh! Yeah, I do that all the time.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK. So this is the difference between the PC keyboard and the SUN keyboard?
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So, like I only have one [disfmarker] I have one versus two of the others.
[speaker004:] I think so.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Did it [disfmarker] Right.
[speaker005:] Is that right?
[speaker001:] Right. I [disfmarker] I'm used to it now too.
[speaker005:] So it's [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I'm actually used to [disfmarker] I'm used to the SUN one, I guess, now.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker003:] Yeah. But then, like, I think there's a different keyboard on
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] I always forget th oh, Linguine, than on, um [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] There's [disfmarker] Basmati?
[speaker003:] No, the other one.
[speaker005:] Amaretto?
[speaker003:] Amaretto.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker004:] Amaretto has a different one.
[speaker003:] I i
[speaker004:] Linguine is [disfmarker] Basmati have the same.
[speaker003:] Right. And it's [disfmarker] and I always use [disfmarker] I tend to use Linguine.
[speaker004:] Right?
[speaker003:] But the last couple times, like, you've stolen Linguine before I can get to it.
[speaker004:] Ooh!
[speaker003:] So I go onto Amaretto, which is fine. But then like, um, it takes me a good, like, ten minutes to get re used to that keyboard.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] And so I keep [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] I don't know. You seem very upset about it, so. We [disfmarker] maybe we should trade.
[speaker003:] No, it's really OK. But, yeah. I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I have noticed that I'll screw some stuff up, like, when I'm trying to get re adj
[speaker005:] S so which t
[speaker004:] But just the beginning.
[speaker005:] I [disfmarker] I've forgotten which one is which. So, which one do you prefer? Is it [disfmarker] is it the [disfmarker] So, if we had a show of hands, how many people would vote for the SUN keyboard versus the [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker005:] So let's put it the other way. How many people would not vote for the SUN keyboard? Would vote for the other one? The PC [disfmarker] PC keyboard?
[speaker004:] Which is the [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] The PC?
[speaker001:] The PC one?
[speaker003:] I would vote for the PC.
[speaker004:] The PC one is the Amaretto one, right?
[speaker005:] I don't know. I don I'm not sure. It's the [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Huh.
[speaker001:] I I'm not sure which one is which.
[speaker003:] Or no!
[speaker006:] Yeah. I just get used to it.
[speaker005:] Uh oh.
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I like the Linguine keyboard.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean like, when I first had started working I would have definitely wanted the PC keyboard,
[speaker005:] The Linguine is [disfmarker] OK.
[speaker003:] That's all I know.
[speaker001:] but now I'm [disfmarker] I'm just used to it.
[speaker005:] You're multi keyb
[speaker004:] I prefer th I prefer the one on Linguine or Basmati.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I don't know what it's called.
[speaker005:] OK, let's do it that way.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So [disfmarker] so if we [disfmarker] if we have a map of the room, the one when you first walk in [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Is Basmati.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker003:] To the left [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] the one on the left is that Basmati?
[speaker002:] By the light switch, yeah.
[speaker003:] Yep.
[speaker006:] I believe that's correct, yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker006:] Linguine must be the one in the left hand corner.
[speaker005:] And [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] It's the one in [disfmarker] in that corner, right?
[speaker003:] Linguine is the one in the corner.
[speaker004:] In the c
[speaker001:] That [disfmarker] that has the PC [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah, the one in the [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] And then the f the far right corner as you walk in?
[speaker001:] Yeah, r Yeah, that's [disfmarker] that one's got the [disfmarker] the PC keyboard, and then the two on those sides have the, um, SUN keyboard.
[speaker003:] Yeah. So, basically, right as you walk in the door, the one straight ahead of you is Amaretto.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] Yep. U u
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] And the one to the left of that against the far corner is Linguine.
[speaker005:] Good. OK.
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] And the one close to you is Basmati.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker005:] OK. So now, ha ha who would've [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker005:] So, if you have a strong [disfmarker] Now you're bi keyboardal so,
[speaker001:] Uh, yeah.
[speaker005:] s but [disfmarker] but, um,
[speaker003:] Nice.
[speaker005:] who [disfmarker] who would prefer the keyboard on Linguine? OK. We got two votes for Linguine. And who would prefer Amaretto? Amaretto? So we got more [disfmarker] more multi keyboardal people?
[speaker002:] Ready.
[speaker006:] I just have no preference.
[speaker005:] Well, that's lovely.
[speaker002:] Yeah, it doesn't really matter.
[speaker005:] Same here?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Excellent.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK, so i
[speaker006:] It just goofs me up for like maybe a minute and then I sorta get used to it.
[speaker001:] Exactly, exactly.
[speaker004:] I [disfmarker] I I could get used to [disfmarker] I could get used to it too.
[speaker003:] Yeah, I could get used to it too.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] I just am very used to [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Huh.
[speaker003:] i Right.
[speaker004:] I don't know. Cuz I always use it.
[speaker005:] I pr I see. I [disfmarker] I have experienced this keyboard conflict, and f with me the things that are confusing are th where the control key is, so I end up
[speaker004:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] pressing shifts and control keys whenever I want the other one, whiche whichever it is.
[speaker001:] Oh, that's true.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] I forgot about that one,
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker001:] yeah.
[speaker006:] Mmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] I could easily put a PC keyboard in there if anyone had [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] we already have one, I could add ane another one [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] we [disfmarker] so, w you know, maybe [disfmarker] let me know if you want it [disfmarker] to have it shifted.
[speaker001:] I'm [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] But, um, OK. That's good. Oh, let me see. So, um, [vocalsound] I [disfmarker] I wanted to, um, m maybe comment a little more on the interface in terms of what aspects of it are helpful in this, unique the shapes of some of these things are. I know we had this interface for a time when people were doing marking of the numbers,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and, um, um, I've forgotten [disfmarker] Someone said that they could recognize a seven when they saw it. They could see the [disfmarker] the waveform and [disfmarker] "Oh, it's gonna be a seven."
[speaker001:] Oh wow.
[speaker003:] Oh yeah.
[speaker004:] I [disfmarker] I remember recognizing certain numbers.
[speaker005:] Becau
[speaker004:] I don mmm, I don't remember which ones, but I think it was maybe [disfmarker] well, I could recognize when there was a fricative at the beginning of a number for some reason. It was like, a little bit of energy, or some whatever you call it, and then it grew really big. So like "four" and "five" and "three" all had this same characteristic, and "six" and "seven" o both had the same characteristics to their [disfmarker] in the beginnings.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] But "six" and "eight"? "Eight", [comment] um, I remember tended [disfmarker] that people tended to not pronounce the last "T".
[speaker005:] Oh.
[speaker004:] And when they did, it was slightly farther away from the rest of the word than you would have es expected.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Same with "six". The "X", well the "KS" or whatever, at the end.
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] But [disfmarker] Yeah. That was a [disfmarker] that was really interesting to notice that. Uh, It's a very different interface, though. I mean, it seems very strange.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. It is different. Well, it w it would [disfmarker] it had the benefit of it [disfmarker] So, this [disfmarker] this was to handle the digits, uh, only,
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker005:] which is what you figure. And, um, did you [disfmarker] I thought you might have done that, Joel. Did you also?
[speaker001:] Nn nnn. [comment] No.
[speaker005:] So, two people did that, i um, I thought.
[speaker006:] I did it a little.
[speaker005:] Did you do it? I thought so. Good, good.
[speaker006:] Just a little bit.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker004:] Yeah, I only did it a little bit, too.
[speaker006:] Yeah, what happened to that, you just stopped doing it? Or [disfmarker]?
[speaker005:] Well, I think that we'll bring it back.
[speaker006:] Oh, OK.
[speaker005:] The [disfmarker] th
[speaker001:] This was a different interface entirely?
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Uh, Adam wrote this as [disfmarker] uh, using the same, uh, computer language as Channeltrans is written in,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and what it would do is present you with the digit string that the person was supposed to have said, and then you would listen to it, and everyth the j there were two parts to the task, one of them was to see if that's what they actually said, and to indicate, you know, in the [disfmarker] i transcribe errors of it.
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] And then the other aspect was to tighten the timebins. And those data were actually used in some analyses which showed uh, very [disfmarker] very good results.
[speaker006:] Right. Good.
[speaker001:] Oh wow.
[speaker005:] And so it shows, I mean [disfmarker] it's [disfmarker] it's useful. This is [disfmarker] this is why we do these digits. It's a nice standard task,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and you have lots of different voices,
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and it's very clear. You know what the canani canonical answer is when a person says a number, um, at least most of the time, you know what number it was they said. So its
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] "ground truth", as they call it, is very clear.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker005:] So. But i [disfmarker] it was, um, really rather minimal. I mean, I [disfmarker] I like that interface. Very efficient, and really is, um [disfmarker] I th think that we'll probably use it for getting the digits refined in terms of their timebins.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] If I remember correctly, it seemed to be very efficient in the key strokes that you used to do certain things.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] I can't remember what they were, now, but I just remember that it was [disfmarker] once you learned them, it was very neat and concise and, th like [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Excellent.
[speaker004:] couple keys that you used.
[speaker006:] Yeah the hardest thing'd be finding them.
[speaker004:] Hmm?
[speaker006:] Cuz I would get the whole tr I'd get the whole transcript of the meeting
[speaker005:] Oh, that's right!
[speaker006:] and you had to find them. You'd have to find where the digits were.
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker006:] And they'd usually be at the end somewhere,
[speaker001:] Oh wow.
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker006:] but you had to fig figure out where the heck in the meeting to [disfmarker] to look for them,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] so.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I also think that [disfmarker] wasn't this a stage where some of these meetings hadn't been transcribed, so I don't think you could use a string search, right?
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I mean, I was trying to remember how that worked.
[speaker001:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] But it was difficult finding them for some reason.
[speaker006:] Yeah!
[speaker004:] Yep.
[speaker005:] Well, y it was also, like you [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yeah, the interface was different. I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] yeah, it was [disfmarker] it was more complicated.
[speaker005:] That's a down side.
[speaker006:] But anyway,
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] than what it would be now, so.
[speaker005:] Actually, you [disfmarker] you also did a different type of transcription i uh, with res respect to, um, our sister project, the SmartKom project, which involved listening to people who were supposed to be wandering through Germany,
[speaker001:] Oh, right.
[speaker005:] and this is s supposed to be something that would be useful in developing an interface to help them find their way.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So, um [disfmarker] someone else did that too, I've forgotten who [disfmarker] who else did that? Did anybody else here do that? OK.
[speaker004:] I feel like I did a little checking or something on that.
[speaker005:] Actually, I think you might have done this also, as I think about it.
[speaker004:] Yeah. I don't know [disfmarker] I don't remember actually transcribing it, but I remember listening to [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Oh. Mm hmm. So actually we started with the words
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] and it was a matter then of trying to find the most efficient way to match the words up with the s with the actual sounds. Cuz they were reading from a script.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Right.
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] And then there was some conversation in addition, that [disfmarker] that, um, needed to be transcribed.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] But, um, yeah. One thing that you learn with this interface right away is that if you have really, really, really long utterances, it's extremely inefficient to do anything.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Because you end up [disfmarker] p p p if you try to n go up in the transcript, you end up with this huge [disfmarker] huge space of time
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yep.
[speaker005:] and things covering several screens and it's just horribly i inefficient,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] so.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] One thing that I still can't figure out with the interface, it does this sometimes but other times it doesn't, is when you click on [disfmarker] you know, there's a bar above where this sound wave is, that has, um, n the [disfmarker] it has a little bar of where the meeting is, like in [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] and it goes along as you're listening to the meeting and then it ends up the end. And if you click on that bar to the right of that little marker then it moves forward,
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] if you click on the left it moves back. But sometimes it moves two frames [comment] or two screens,
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] Oh yes. Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] I've noticed that.
[speaker004:] and sometimes it doesn't.
[speaker005:] I think that's totally dependent w on how you have the resolution set. So that little tiny thing.
[speaker004:] Really?
[speaker005:] And if I increase the resolution so it's spread out a bit more, then I seem to have more control over it.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker005:] But, I don't have [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mmm.
[speaker004:] Cuz I noticed that a few times it would do it [disfmarker] it would move twice
[speaker003:] That kind of makes sense
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker004:] and then in [disfmarker] n sometimes i it wouldn't,
[speaker003:] because [disfmarker] Yeah, i
[speaker004:] and maybe i maybe I had resolution set differently
[speaker003:] Cuz, yeah, if the s the resolution [disfmarker] If it's moving too slowly [disfmarker] then, like, if you were to click on some place then it makes sense that it would get kind of confused.
[speaker004:] or I s
[speaker003:] But if it's moving quickly, [comment] seems that it's covering more ground faster,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] so [disfmarker] I don't know.
[speaker005:] I'm gonna report that to him, cuz I [disfmarker] I've [disfmarker] I know [disfmarker] that's one of the reasons why, when I uh [disfmarker] suggested to visual scan the record, that I suggested doing it by clicking on the right of the [disfmarker] of that navigation bar you're mentioning.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Or, actually, clicking on the right of the sound wave and then letting it run past the boundary,
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker005:] because I had the same problem.
[speaker004:] Yeah. That's what I tend to do, is I use a soundwave,
[speaker005:] It's [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] but if I'm trying to scan through a long period of what appears to be silence sometimes I'll s ry and be sc try to scan it,
[speaker005:] cuz you always know [disfmarker] Yes. Yeah, much more [disfmarker] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] but I can't because
[speaker005:] Cuz you end up missing entire frames.
[speaker004:] it skips. Yeah. So then I end up clicking on the arrow, they have the arrow at the far right,
[speaker005:] Ye I was surprised by that. Yeah. Yes, OK. OK.
[speaker004:] and so I use that sometimes.
[speaker005:] So, on the [disfmarker] on that [disfmarker] on that bar you were describing. Clicking [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah. Mm hmm. At the far right and far left there's a little arrow that allows you to go like second by second or something,
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker001:] I didn't know about that.
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker001:] Really?
[speaker004:] Not second by second, but little bit by bit, yeah.
[speaker005:] So, is this the arrow on the right,
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker005:] it would be underneath that little resolution bar? I mean, it's like in that u cluster up there?
[speaker004:] Um, it's not on the resolution part. It's where you have [disfmarker] it's where you have the marker of where you are in the meeting. So you have this bar, uh, and then you have a time marker that moves along. Say, you're halfway through the meeting, it's gonna be halfway along the line.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. I have to do something visually. So, my [disfmarker] I would say you have [comment] the transcript screen, and then you have a bar. I think you're referring to this bar, aren't you?
[speaker004:] I think [disfmarker] Yeah.
[speaker005:] And then there's like this little resolution changer.
[speaker004:] Yeah. It's [disfmarker] Yeah.
[speaker005:] And then down here you have the soundwave, and then something down here,
[speaker004:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker005:] and then you got the cha the different channels come out.
[speaker004:] So right at the right and left of that [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] So r right in here you have this bar that you move and as y as you go along it [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK, so, is [disfmarker] Are you saying [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Oh that! Yeah.
[speaker005:] you saying that there's an arrow right here?
[speaker004:] Yeah!
[speaker005:] OK. And then there's an arrow right here?
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK. So you can [@ @] [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] Oh. Does [disfmarker] That doesn't [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] I usually just don't use that, I think.
[speaker001:] Yeah, that skips [disfmarker] Oh, is that what you're talking about?
[speaker003:] Oh.
[speaker001:] If you use that [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] I've never used [disfmarker] been able to use that cuz it [disfmarker] I s feel like it skips such huge portions.
[speaker004:] Maybe we have resolution set totally different.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Cuz I noticed when [disfmarker] Jen and I have totally different resolutions,
[speaker001:] Maybe we do.
[speaker004:] cuz hers moves so much quicker than mine,
[speaker003:] I tend to make it move fast.
[speaker001:] Oh, I d I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] Yeah, I wouldn't [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] which means it's more stretched out, right?
[speaker001:] I wouldn't use that unless I was trying to get to a whole different part of the [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Right. Right. Right. Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah. I usually have it set to where it has, um, point five second intervals on the numbers.
[speaker006:] Right. That's when I use it too.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Oh. That's interesting. I haven't paid attention to the numbers. I sort of like [disfmarker] visually, i it helps me to have it be separated enough that I could find a new breaking point if I needed it.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah. That's the reason I separate it out.
[speaker004:] Yeah. I [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I do too, but sometimes if it gets too [disfmarker] too [disfmarker] for me too stretched out, um, I'll tend to think that there's a break in between a pause inside of a word or something.
[speaker005:] Expanded? Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Oh, yes.
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker003:] Because the, uh [disfmarker] the waveform becomes too stretched out.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right. Because [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] So I prefer it to be a little bit tighter,
[speaker003:] Yeah. It's nice to have [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] but I'll stretch [disfmarker] I'll stretch it in a particular place if I need to, or something.
[speaker003:] Right. A sort of, like, happy medium, so you can make sure that the waveform has its, like, th g shape.
[speaker001:] Uh, right. Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Now I know what you're talking about.
[speaker004:] Yeah. That's kind of interesting, though.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Well, we're coming kind of close to the end of our time here. Um, I did ask about dessert and they told me it was ice cream and it doesn't save well, so. [vocalsound] I mean [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker004:] Well if there's any left we can grab it.
[speaker006:] If there was pie again,
[speaker005:] That's right.
[speaker006:] if there was those tarts again, I'd be like, "Set us some aside some there."
[speaker004:] Ooh, those were good.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] But [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah, there's some [disfmarker] Those are [disfmarker] those are nice.
[speaker006:] I'm not a big ice cream fan.
[speaker003:] Really? Oh.
[speaker006:] Nah.
[speaker001:] No?
[speaker005:] But I did [disfmarker] I was thinking i you know, it is interesting to me to think about how each [disfmarker] each of us have sampled different meetings, and yet, i i it's intriguing to me to think that if I were to describe someone's characteristics in terms of their speech patterns, I bet you, we would all agree on who it [disfmarker] who it was.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] You know. I think that's so interesting.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah, it's [disfmarker] it's a statement of speaker style, of course,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] but.
[speaker004:] And also that we can [disfmarker] I don't know, that we have this shared realm of knowledge, kind of, and can laugh about things that other people would not understand whatsoever, or [disfmarker] You know?
[speaker003:] Mm hmm. The little intricacies and idiosyncracies of people's voices
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, i it's really cool.
[speaker003:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah, or even just about what we were talking about with the technical part, you know, the interface.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] I don't know.
[speaker005:] Do you have any favorite parts of these meetings? Things that you [disfmarker] I mean, we di we talked briefly about this last time.
[speaker006:] When people get really loopy, and start telling lots of jokes, I think.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] I enjoy always transcribing those sections.
[speaker005:] Is this [disfmarker] do you think this is usually toward the end of the meeting, or does it vary? Cuz it could [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] It's [disfmarker] yeah, it seems to be more at the end.
[speaker005:] The [disfmarker] the person [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Eah. [comment] Depends on the person.
[speaker002:] Or in the beginning,
[speaker006:] Like [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] the very beginning.
[speaker004:] Yeah, in the very beginning.
[speaker006:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker006:] Yeah, they'll be joking around.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Do you have a favorite group that you [disfmarker] that you like? I don't [disfmarker] I don't wanna cause any partisanship here, but [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Wait, a favorite what?
[speaker005:] A [disfmarker] a fav a favorite t type of meeting that you like, or, um [disfmarker] or [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Oh, you mean like, eh, meeti like [disfmarker] like, um, Meeting Recorder as opposed to EDU as oppo Like, those groups?
[speaker005:] It [disfmarker] whichever. I that way or [disfmarker] or a nature of a meeting,
[speaker006:] Oh.
[speaker005:] or [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I prefer ones that are somewhat linguistically related,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker004:] cuz it's more interesting for me.
[speaker001:] Yeah. I like those.
[speaker003:] I don't like the technical ones cuz I don't understand what they're talking about.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Exactly. And it's f really hard t t
[speaker003:] And so I'm just [disfmarker] Yeah. And I'm sitting there bored cuz I r I really have no concept of what they're talking about.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] So I'm going "OK." "I'm just gonna listen to you."
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] M yeah, the ones that [disfmarker] where they're talking about linguistic things, though, are great.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] I love those.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I like those [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Those are th E would these be the EDU meetings? That's what I think. Is that true?
[speaker003:] The ones with Liz, and you.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh, really? OK.
[speaker004:] Yeah. You guys do some in the mee in the Meeting Recorder ones, there's some talk of, D d I don't know, discourse stuff. I think it's really fun too to listen to when you give reports on transcription.
[speaker005:] Oh, I I'm [disfmarker] really?
[speaker004:] Yeah. Cuz there are always people like, you know, talking bad about the transcribers,
[speaker005:] Oh, I'm glad.
[speaker004:] and just making fun of u
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And so it's really funny, I don't know.
[speaker003:] Yeah. I li that's why I like Johno.
[speaker004:] It's really funny to listen to.
[speaker006:] I've never heard anyone make fun of transcribers.
[speaker004:] You haven't?
[speaker003:] Really? Oh, it's so funny.
[speaker006:] No!
[speaker005:] Oh, Johno does a lot of that.
[speaker006:] When you guys were saying that last week, I was like "Never heard that."
[speaker003:] Yeah. That's why I like listening to him.
[speaker004:] It's really funny.
[speaker003:] He's always making fun of transcribers.
[speaker005:] It would be a kick [disfmarker] Yeah, in a [disfmarker] uh, in a good natured way [@ @].
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] It would be really fun to have a collage of all these things, like, "Well, the transcribers [disfmarker]" so, "Rer rer rer rer" and then s be some horrible thing, "The transcriber's gonna have trouble with this. [@ @]"
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[speaker005:] Did you hear the meeting where the guy was doing, um, clicks like from African languages?
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Oh my.
[speaker003:] Oh my god!
[speaker005:] Wasn't that a kick?
[speaker004:] No!
[speaker006:] I did that.
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker005:] That was really a kick.
[speaker006:] And whistles. He was [disfmarker] it [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] you must have been sittin There was a meeting where there was this guy, he was making these funky sounds
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] and making funny whistles,
[speaker005:] Yep.
[speaker006:] and you must have been sitting next to him
[speaker005:] I was. Exactly.
[speaker006:] cuz you sort of engaged him in a conversation about it.
[speaker005:] Exactly so.
[speaker006:] And he was like, Yeah, I can make dogs, uh, raise their ears
[speaker005:] Exactly. Exactly!
[speaker006:] cuz I can whistle so high. "
[speaker004:] Wow.
[speaker006:] And you were like, w "That's fascinating." I remember that meeting. I thought it was pretty funny.
[speaker004:] Yeah. I think it's funny when there's little side conversations like that, that happen at the same time too.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I think those are interesting.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And I think it's really cool when people start getting really excited about something or angry about something
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] because then they tend to interrupt each other a lot, and [disfmarker] I don't know. I mean, I remember one where one person, um, was really trying to get something out, really, really desperately, and he kept getting interrupted by like three p three other people, and he was like, "I I I I I I I I I"
[speaker003:] Oh!
[speaker004:] And it was [disfmarker] I mean it was kind of sad but it was, like, also really interesting to watch, or to listen to. Both.
[speaker005:] Have [disfmarker] have you noticed that sometimes you have these a [disfmarker] a g g greater frequency of speech errors, I think, during times of inter of overlap
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] which [disfmarker] which is [disfmarker] you can just tell a person's m monitoring at two levels
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and it's [disfmarker] it's difficult.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] They're like just trying really hard to get it out before they get interrupted or something,
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] falls apart. I don't know.
[speaker003:] I like transcribing you cuz you're very polite.
[speaker005:] Oh, thank you!
[speaker003:] No, really. You're always like "Well, [vocalsound] I was just thinking about this, and maybe this might be if [disfmarker]" I [disfmarker] uh, you know.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] It's just [disfmarker] it's just kind of cute because everybody's like, "Oh. Well, OK." And they'll just listen to you, you know.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] They don't interrupt you, they're just like, "Well, OK." It's kind of neat.
[speaker004:] Yep.
[speaker005:] Thank you. Yeah. Let's see. Have you noti th one of the things that I found is [disfmarker] is, um, surprisingly difficult these days is to co is to get certain electronic sounds, to try and describe them.
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Have [disfmarker] I was thinking about that the other day,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] it was like [disfmarker] it's like, y y you know, someone in one of these EDU meetings, they have a laptop and they hit the thing and the [disfmarker] and there's an error screen that comes up and it has this "doink" [comment] kind of sound. And it [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Right. Right.
[speaker005:] What is that? It's not a beep.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] It's not a bell. It's not s it's not a "dong". It's not a [disfmarker] I mean, you [disfmarker] there're all these words that I could imagine and [disfmarker] so, it's like, it's a "tinny kind of electronic sound that comes up when you make an error with your laptop". And that's [disfmarker] [vocalsound] that's not really very helpful.
[speaker002:] I wonder if like Microsoft has a word for it.
[speaker003:] Now I'm [disfmarker] now I'm just wondering how they're gonna transcribe you saying that.
[speaker004:] Yes.
[speaker005:] Oh. [vocalsound] You mean the voice quality? The [disfmarker] the shift in [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] The "doink".
[speaker002:] Bling.
[speaker005:] Oh, that thing.
[speaker003:] Yeah. [vocalsound] I know.
[speaker005:] Oh th
[speaker001:] Now you did it again! Stop torturing them!
[speaker003:] No!
[speaker002:] Let's not make things hard on ourselves later.
[speaker004:] I know.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah. Well and then, you know, there are these other things that I think are really interesting, like the vocal changes in character. People shifting into a [disfmarker] kind of a comic voice,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] or sort of a mock this or mock that,
[speaker006:] Mmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] you know, the sighing and the, "Oh no!" You know, it's [disfmarker] it's, uh, i There are lot's of nuances which we [disfmarker] uh, which we use very often.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Comic words and things like that.
[speaker004:] You know, I
[speaker005:] And [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Sorry.
[speaker005:] Yeah?
[speaker004:] sorry, to [disfmarker] [vocalsound] I just remembered one thing that really was [disfmarker] you needed [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I think it was you that pointed out the problem. Like you needed to be at the meeting to be able to transcribe correctly, the noise. I think it was Adam was making this really strange noise, and apparently he was pretending [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] "Eech eech", [comment] or something.
[speaker004:] he was like pretending to r screw something into his head?
[speaker005:] "Whee whee".
[speaker002:] What?
[speaker005:] s s
[speaker004:] Was that what it was?
[speaker005:] Yes. It was one of these [disfmarker] it was this kind of deal.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah, I had that one.
[speaker004:] Yeah! Y yeah!
[speaker001:] Oh yeah.
[speaker005:] Yes. Oh, yes. And he got to transcribe this meeting.
[speaker001:] Yeah,
[speaker005:] And there was all this meta stuff about [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] that was fun.
[speaker005:] Cuz I was giving a report on what the comments were, and it was [disfmarker] one of these was this, s so [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] "Whee whee". [comment] is what he said. And he was going like this at the time.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Joel's like, "I am not amused."
[speaker001:] I don't even wanna, like, try to repeat what he said because I don't wanna put the transcriber through it again.
[speaker005:] Yes, that's right. Let's just [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] But they actually had a big list of, like, things that people had transcribed and then they were reading one [disfmarker] them one by one and being, like, "What's this? This?" You know, and then doing the sounds,
[speaker003:] Aw!
[speaker001:] and then, This sound must be this sound!
[speaker004:] Oh. Oh wow.
[speaker001:] This sound must be this! "
[speaker004:] y I had one like that where they were describing the different f qualities of "uh huh" and "uh" and "uah" and like what "EH" is versus "UH" versus "AH".
[speaker001:] u u I had [disfmarker] yeah, I had one like that too.
[speaker006:] Yeah!
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Oh man.
[speaker004:] That was really hard. Yeah. That's really interesting.
[speaker001:] I had Yeah. I had one where they were just [disfmarker] they were just, like, talking about each word, you know, and they were saying [disfmarker] they were just describing the word over and over again, and just the q the quotes around the word were driving me crazy. When they [disfmarker] kn knowing when to put the quotes and when [disfmarker] And then they were talking about like the difference between "uh" when it's "a" [comment] or when it's "uh",
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] and at some point they were saying it so much, I didn't know how to transcribe it anymore.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I was like, "I don't know if you're saying" a "or" uh "anymore".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker005:] You did an excellen excellent job. That was really [disfmarker] it was like m transcription, a meta transcription and meta meta meta.
[speaker001:] Oh, thank you.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah. Cool!
[speaker005:] It's really [@ @].
[speaker001:] It was fun.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] You know, I'm really interested in this topic. Would it be a problem if we continued a little bit longer on this? Or do you need to g do people need to leave. I don't wanna keep you longer than [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Mm mmm.
[speaker001:] I'm fine.
[speaker002:] I can stay.
[speaker004:] I don't have to be anywhere until five,
[speaker006:] Sure.
[speaker005:] Are we OK?
[speaker004:] so.
[speaker005:] Oh, OK. We won't be that long, I don't think.
[speaker006:] No.
[speaker004:] Good.
[speaker006:] Sure.
[speaker005:] But [disfmarker] but I really appreciate it.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker005:] This is just really i it's so interesting to me, the [disfmarker] the specific experiences of [disfmarker] of having encountered these data in this way. Does, um [disfmarker] Did anybody else wanna say anything about [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] I mean, just weird things like before [disfmarker] like, I had kind of a weird thing happen, and we'd talked about it. It was when I'd first started working on the project I got this discussion where [disfmarker] this was before we had the different channels, and, um, Dan Ellis [disfmarker] it was when Dan Ellis was still here
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker006:] so it was like kind of early on, right? And, um, he [disfmarker] everyone's talking, and then all of the sudden, you hear Dan talking to someone else and it's different people that you'd never heard before. And [disfmarker] and what he had done, is he had left the room to g He'd li and he had brought the microphone with him.
[speaker003:] Oh, no.
[speaker006:] And this is without the channelized interface. So you [disfmarker] you have no idea.
[speaker005:] Oh my gosh.
[speaker004:] Oh man.
[speaker001:] Oh wow.
[speaker006:] You think everyone's just become schizophrenic or something.
[speaker004:] Oh n
[speaker006:] And they're all like in they're own r world or something because [disfmarker] Then all of the sudden he's talking about a co he needs a copy machine. And I don and I'm just assuming, well he's s s still in the room
[speaker003:] Oh g
[speaker006:] and what the heck's he talking about?
[speaker001:] Wow!
[speaker006:] But just sort of just weird things like that, and, um [disfmarker] Yeah, he had just left the room and gone and made a copy and he still had his microphone on, and then you could hear the [disfmarker] the [disfmarker] the r the women behind the desk talking to him, and just sort of stuff like that. It was just really bizarre. So.
[speaker004:] That's really funny.
[speaker006:] Anyway. Just sort of weird things like that.
[speaker005:] Well, it is [disfmarker] There's another case where I ran across like o of that type, um, i when I was sitting here and we were doing [disfmarker] This was like o one of the first meetings I ever participated in and [disfmarker] and Dan was adjusting something here and Adam was in the next room, and, um, [vocalsound] Adam says, "So I'll come in here and check the levels," and [disfmarker] and he says something and Dan says, "No". And it sounds like he's saying "no" to Adam, and it was w if [disfmarker] if [disfmarker] if so, this would have been extremely rude.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] But but the thing [disfmarker] and [disfmarker] and the reason that it would be rude is because you don't have this information from hearing all these equalized volume channels,
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker005:] you don't know that they're not participating in the same conversation at all.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] It really is strange.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I it lead us [disfmarker] it ta if we w
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker005:] It is true that this is kind of an artificial and i um, discourse c aspect, the mixed channel is artificial because we're boosting it in order to make everything audible.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] It's interesting cuz like, um, when I'm working late at night, [comment] I actually don't feel so lonely
[speaker005:] But [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] because there's so many voices in my head.
[speaker005:] You mean when you leave here? When you're somewhere else?
[speaker003:] No, no. While I [disfmarker] while I'm working here,
[speaker005:] No, no. OK.
[speaker003:] it's like nine o ' and nobody's here except for me, and I'm like, You know, I don't feel so lonely
[speaker004:] Oh, yeah.
[speaker003:] because there are like eight people talking to me all at once ". I'm like, "Wow".
[speaker005:] How about these meetings when [disfmarker] where there are like eight speakers i in one meeting. Are those [disfmarker] What are those like?
[speaker003:] Takes a long time.
[speaker005:] Are [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] They take longer to do.
[speaker004:] It takes a long time, yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] In a way they're more fun, though.
[speaker003:] Takes a long time.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] There's just more variety.
[speaker004:] I [disfmarker] tends [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] you know what I noticed, is it tends to have a [disfmarker] still, a dominant group of speakers
[speaker003:] Sometimes.
[speaker004:] and then there are two or three people generally who don't talk at all
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Who won't talk.
[speaker004:] except to say their digits or something, or who [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] And to breathe.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] or to breathe and cough and sniff and whatever.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker002:] Oh, god!
[speaker006:] There'll be lots of breathing. [vocalsound] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah. But I [disfmarker] I think that still overall you're gonna have probably three or four or five dominant speakers.
[speaker003:] One thing I noticed is that, like, uhhh! [disfmarker] [comment] There was this one meeting I was transcribing, there were nine [disfmarker] nine speakers, and by the end of it, I was so entirely sick of listening to the same conversation all over again
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] nine times in slow mo!
[speaker004:] Exactly.
[speaker001:] Definitely.
[speaker003:] I was going nuts. I was like, "I cannot take this anymore. I can't listen to this anymore. Oh my god!"
[speaker005:] I had that same reaction.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Absolutely. And sometimes these are meetings I participated in. It's it's like [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] So you've [disfmarker] this is like the tenth time for you, then.
[speaker003:] I swear it's like [disfmarker] it's like a bad dream.
[speaker005:] That's righ that's right.
[speaker003:] It's like, "This is [disfmarker] this is keep happ this keeps happening to me".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Never changes. I'm gonna check out outside to make sure that we're OK with the, um
[speaker004:] Oh, OK.
[speaker003:] Oh. OK.
[speaker006:] Did you guys ever, when [disfmarker] This happened to me when I first started transcribing, cuz I had never really transcribed stuff like this before,
[speaker005:] Is it OK if we stay for another half hour in this room?
[speaker006:] but, um,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Good, thanks.
[speaker006:] I would leave here, and I would go out and do my daily business, and I would hear people speaking to me,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] and I would transcribe them in my head!
[speaker003:] Yes! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.
[speaker004:] Oh, man.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah! [vocalsound] That's fun!
[speaker006:] I'd imagine what I would type.
[speaker004:] Yeah! Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] It went away, like maybe after a couple of weeks,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh really?
[speaker006:] but it was just bizarre.
[speaker003:] I still do that. I still do that.
[speaker001:] I still do that.
[speaker002:] No, I don't Yeah.
[speaker006:] Really?
[speaker004:] Occasionally.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Like on the bus or something when I'm bored.
[speaker003:] Yep. Or, like, I'll think [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Right. It's something you're not interacting with,
[speaker006:] Oh. No, for me it was unconscious.
[speaker002:] you're just listening.
[speaker004:] Oh, really?
[speaker006:] It was [disfmarker] I didn't mean for [disfmarker] to be doing it.
[speaker004:] Oh, OK.
[speaker003:] No, yeah. N Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh, oh.
[speaker006:] It would just intru it was an intrusion.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Oh, that's funny.
[speaker006:] Um, not a te not a bad intrusion,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] but not something I was sort of volitionally sort of [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Huh, that's interesting.
[speaker003:] I would also be really aw aware of w how I was speaking.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] Yes!
[speaker003:] Cuz I also tend [disfmarker] Like, we were talking about "so". I do that.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] I'll end utterances with "so" or "and".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and it'll just be a trailing off, and I'll think, "Man. I would be such a pain in the butt to transcribe."
[speaker006:] Yeah!
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] Yeah!
[speaker003:] Like I just, uh, I [disfmarker] g yeah. I'll [disfmarker] I'll do the same thing as you do, and I [disfmarker] I'll listen to somebody and his or her speech will be particularly idios idiosyncratic,
[speaker006:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker003:] and I'll go, "Wow, I just [disfmarker] I'm glad I'm not transcribing him or her".
[speaker004:] Yeah. I noticed a lot of my speech i I don't know, I wouldn't call them errors, I guess disfluencies, a lot more once [disfmarker] when I started transcribing. I just noticed [disfmarker] and in ge people in general, that people break up their speech interestingly.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] I'm amazed sometimes that we manage to communicate.
[speaker004:] Yeah! Actually.
[speaker003:] You know? [vocalsound] Cuz people will say just, like, you know, monosyllabic little grunts and squeaks and things,
[speaker004:] I think that shows a lot of [disfmarker] I think that shows a lot of how, um, it's not all acoustic.
[speaker003:] and it means something.
[speaker004:] I mean, there's other things involved,
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] eye contact, body language,
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] gesture, whatever.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] That raises a question. Um, do you think that, um, you would have been considerably helped if we had had video tapes of these things?
[speaker006:] Oh sure.
[speaker003:] Yes.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker004:] I definitely think so.
[speaker003:] Yep. Mhh.
[speaker004:] And I think there would be a lot more interesting data to analyze later on, [vocalsound] personally.
[speaker005:] Mmm, well, mm hmm, mm hmm that's right,
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] cuz you're involved in gesture research.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah, cuz then you know exactly what's going on, what the context cues are [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] And you can really get a feel for the re interpersonal relationships,
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] which kind of comes into play, maybe not for speech recognition, but for other things, maybe?
[speaker003:] Maybe this is what it's like to be blind.
[speaker005:] Mmm hmm. Oh, interesting.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Maybe.
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Huh.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] No [disfmarker] no visual input at all.
[speaker004:] Yeah, you just have to rely on your intonation, and other things like that.
[speaker003:] Right. And you get so much more aware of all of it too.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Mm hmm. Maybe.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] That's [disfmarker] I know someone who actually recognizes perfumes in the elevator. I mean, there's a [disfmarker] there's a blind man in this [disfmarker] in this building,
[speaker004:] Oh. Uh huh.
[speaker005:] and [disfmarker] and, um, Lila was in the elevator one day. And they hadn't spoken yet cuz he just came on the elevator and he says [disfmarker] uh, and then she [disfmarker] then she said something and he says, "Y you sp you've changed your perfume."
[speaker003:] Oh wow.
[speaker005:] Yeah, it's pretty interesting. Pretty interesting.
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker004:] That's pretty amazing.
[speaker006:] Had she changed her perfume?
[speaker003:] That's neat.
[speaker005:] Yes, she had.
[speaker006:] Oh, wow.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Huh.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Oof!
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] It's very interesting.
[speaker004:] Enhanced other senses, I guess. That's really cool.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Have you [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I've learned several things about having been Wi i with the close talking mikes. This is [disfmarker] this is a new experience. Cuz I have of course been involved in [disfmarker] in this kind of thing for quite a while, but th there are several things I didn't realize you could hear so reliably,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and [disfmarker] some of these are the things like when the mouth opens and the inbreath and stuff and it [disfmarker] and how extremely audible and [disfmarker] and visual,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] I mean, you can see these [disfmarker] the inbreaths and things.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] It's [disfmarker] that was really surprising to me, that you [disfmarker] it's that tangible.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] That's something you don't hear in normal speech too.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] In normal conversations, [comment] unless it's very dramatic or very loud,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] that people click their [disfmarker] Their lips are always making funny noises
[speaker002:] Unless [disfmarker] you're on, uh, talking on the phone,
[speaker004:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] and the phone is [disfmarker] the levels are funny.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Then you hear it.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So, th it's kind of like that.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I guess it's also one of these things that u usually is not meaningful, so we sort of screen it out.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] u all these different in cuz, you know, I mean, we do that all the time with all other [disfmarker] well, lots of other aspects of the acoustic signal.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] It sounds like it's a nice smooth melody, but [vocalsound] these things are voicing and unvoicing, are tripping in and out, and they don't [disfmarker] The contour is really not nearly that neat. Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Right. Yeah [disfmarker] well, yeah, most of the time when we're listening to other people's speech, we're just trying to get the gist. Not literally what people are saying
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] and so, you know, all the "uh" [disfmarker] "uh's" and "um's", and all those different things,
[speaker003:] That's true.
[speaker004:] We yeah, we filter all that out.
[speaker006:] we just tune it out,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] And, uh, it's that top down thing again. Just [disfmarker] right?
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
[speaker006:] In a way. Just trying to get the, um, you know, what is the p "what is the point of what this person is trying to communicate?" kind of thing.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] That's right.
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Which is a very [disfmarker] it's [disfmarker] that's how I tended [disfmarker] before studying linguistics anyways and, uh, definitely before doing transcription, [comment] how I tended to look all conversations,
[speaker005:] That's right.
[speaker004:] and then coming here and doing this, you have to look at speech in a totally more intense way. Um. Including, I mean, every little aspect. I [disfmarker] and when I tell people what I do here, and tell them, "Yeah, I'm transcribing". And they're [disfmarker] they think I'm like a stenographer or something.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I'm like, No, I don't correct the grammar.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] I don't erase the "um"'s and "uh"'s, I record all the sighs, and the laughs, and the breaths, and [disfmarker] And they're [disfmarker] I don't know. This is a very different thing than most people can relate to, I guess.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. The [disfmarker] I agree.
[speaker004:] Or know about.
[speaker005:] Another thing that I think is interesting in these meetings is, certain speakers have a tendency to embed utterances in other embed uh, in other utterances. And, um, you know, it's very clear when you see it [disfmarker] when you hear it with the intonational markers, but [disfmarker] well, just the contours,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] but the words on the page, it's not at all clear.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] And there are a couple people who do this in particular.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] I [disfmarker] I would say that it's both [disfmarker] I would say that both Jerry and Morgan do this.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] And [disfmarker] it's amazing how fluent it is [pause] when you hear it, but how very complicated it is when you see the words.
[speaker003:] Indecipherable.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And when you think about it, they pick up exactly where they left off, even though maybe it's several seconds later, there's no glitch in the syntax or anything. It's [disfmarker] We're pretty amazing machines. Or creatures,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] whatever.
[speaker005:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] That's really cool.
[speaker003:] Machines.
[speaker005:] Yeah. So, and then of course there are these [disfmarker] these things which I think are also nicely represented in the data which are these funny sounds people make, which to some degree is borrowing from comic talk. So, I notice people going, "Pfft" [comment] you know, if they're trying to say something is done.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] The Germans do this I think in particular.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] And there are others that we use like that th which are sort of semi conventionalized, but you wouldn't think that you would write them down.
[speaker003:] Yeah, the one I kn I kn get all the time is "tsk"
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh yes! Good example.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] It's [disfmarker] it's, uh [disfmarker] like I don't know how [disfmarker] I just transcribe it as [disfmarker] I say, like, "click"
[speaker004:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] It's like "tisk".
[speaker003:] and then I say, "It's like a vocal gesture." Like a shrug or a vocal [disfmarker] some [disfmarker] some sort of like, "Well, there it is".
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Or, "That's it."
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Or something like that, you know. That [disfmarker] people do that one a lot. And there was one speaker who used to do it constantly. And after a while, [vocalsound] I started getting confused as to whether or not he was, like, just going "tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk" to himself, or whether he was meaning it in conversat Sometimes it was really obvious that he meant it as some sort of vocal cue.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] But then sometimes it was more ambiguous. Like it was tough to tell, um, because he would just always be clicking.
[speaker005:] This cou Is this the one that [disfmarker] I mean, it could be the one that we were thinking about.
[speaker004:] It could be. But I noticed it more as it was obviously not [disfmarker] because it was always in a g the one I'm thinking of always came in groups of four or something.
[speaker005:] Yes. Uh huh.
[speaker004:] And so it wasn't ever like a, um, single l
[speaker003:] Mmm. Oh, OK.
[speaker005:] It would be [disfmarker] it would [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah, this guy does a lot of single ones.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh, how interesting.
[speaker003:] Yeah, just kind of, um [disfmarker] And, uh [disfmarker] that's another thing like I [disfmarker] I realize I do that too.
[speaker005:] I'll ask you who this is later. I don't wanna [vocalsound] cuz
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] I can't remember the name actually.
[speaker005:] OK. The [disfmarker] the one that I'm thinking of, i it's a matter of you can tell it's in context where he's looking in his agenda to see, you know, "Do I have time to do this?"
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] and he's calculating it in his mind. So it's sort of li almost like a stand in for calculator, kind of thing.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] And i uh, but it's signaling. I'm sure that everybody [disfmarker] I'm sure that other people can hear it. So it's sort of like, "Wait a minute, I'm thinking."
[speaker004:] Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] But it's not lexicalized. This is not a [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] That's kind of the impression I got too.
[speaker005:] i not in a standard way,
[speaker003:] Oh. Yeah, that's a different person.
[speaker005:] it's [disfmarker] OK. OK. OK.
[speaker003:] Yeah. OK, I know who you're talking about. But this is somebody [disfmarker] somebody differ
[speaker005:] He must do this in a lot of meetings because I think [disfmarker] you know, I've run across it several times.
[speaker001:] I don't think I've ever heard it.
[speaker004:] No.
[speaker006:] No.
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] I've heard
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Which I just transcribe as "mouth".
[speaker005:] Heard that one. Oh, I see.
[speaker006:] I just make a mouth [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Huh.
[speaker006:] Cuz I think I had talked to you about this [disfmarker] about what [disfmarker] what did we do [disfmarker] cuz [disfmarker] wha what was it that I [disfmarker] oh, I was [disfmarker] "Lipsmack"!
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh yes.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] I was marking "lipsmack", and [disfmarker] and you said [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] That's more like the "[@ @]".
[speaker006:] yeah, that's [disfmarker] It's a different noise,
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] but, um, it's what made me think of it,
[speaker002:] Ah.
[speaker006:] but, um,
[speaker003:] The one you're talking ab
[speaker006:] and [disfmarker] and you said, "Don't do" lipsmack ", just do [disfmarker] we don't need [disfmarker] it's too specific. Just do "mouth" for all tha all those noises ".
[speaker005:] Yeah, OK. Now what I would say [disfmarker] um,
[speaker006:] Um [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] it's good to know this. C what I [disfmarker] what I would say is, um, if it's communicative s beyond just the p mouth opening and the w oh, you know, the mechanical aspects that happen when you happen to be about to speak, then I would like to have it [disfmarker] if it's communicative, I'd like to have it preserved.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] a But if it's just this mechanical stuff, "mouth" is fine.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] The [disfmarker] It seems like the computer science people use "lipsmack" for that. I [disfmarker] Personally, my choice [disfmarker] eh, w we've [disfmarker] we're still deciding on how we're gonna encode it in the final version. But I tend to not like "lipsmack" because I think that that's [disfmarker] could be meaningful and it's a little confusing.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] People talk about, you know, "Oh gee, that was really good,"
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] and then they do a [disfmarker] I'm not gonna do it cuz I don't really know how to do lipsmack. But [disfmarker] but it seems like it would be a [disfmarker] a vocal gesture,
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] It could be.
[speaker005:] a definite type of thing.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right. Yeah, th I was thinking the one that you just did, like "tsk". [comment] makes me think of the [disfmarker] what people would write as "tsk tsk".
[speaker005:] Yes. Same here. Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Me too.
[speaker003:] You know, like, uh, as though they're like, you know, trying to communicate displeasure.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I would too.
[speaker006:] Oh, right. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] That's true. Yeah.
[speaker006:] Right. Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] And so that [disfmarker] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker003:] U i cu there's [disfmarker] there's at least two or three that I can think of that to me are very different. You know, there's like, you know, that,
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker003:] and there's like, um, you know, well, the one I did before that's like I don't know, like, um [disfmarker] Hhh.
[speaker005:] I would say "tongue click" for that.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] But I would also probably put in parentheses it [disfmarker] that I thought it was a vocal gesture.
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] Because I think it's communicative of a certain thing.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I don't know what [disfmarker] I am never sure whether or not to transcribe, um, a difference with, like, "hmm", [comment] you know, and "hmm!".
[speaker004:] Oh yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh. Good point. Yes.
[speaker001:] Like, how do you transcribe "hmm!"?
[speaker004:] It's like "humph".
[speaker003:] I'll put like a [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Really good point. Yeah.
[speaker003:] I'll usually put a [disfmarker] an exclamation point [pause] somehow. Like I'll go [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] I would too.
[speaker001:] Yeah?
[speaker004:] Oh.
[speaker005:] I think it's more emphatic.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] W what about pre transcribing it, um, "HMPH"?
[speaker005:] But it [disfmarker] th it's true that th segments are different too.
[speaker001:] What about transcribing it that way,
[speaker003:] "Hmph."
[speaker001:] like "hmph"?
[speaker002:] Hmm!
[speaker006:] Oh.
[speaker005:] Well, now, y This is a good question. I guess I would say th you know, sometimes we've seen "hmph" in literature meaning in
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] but it's a s a sigh [disfmarker] a si uh, sorry. A sound of indignation.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So, if it's meant as a sound of indignation then I think that would be how I would capture it, with the HMPH thing.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] I usually tend to think that it's a [disfmarker] more of a [disfmarker] Hhh. [vocalsound] not indignation. Something more positive. I don't know exactly wha how to characterize it,
[speaker002:] Like [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] but something more
[speaker003:] Oh really?
[speaker002:] " Hmm!
[speaker005:] a sort of like a sup uh, an [disfmarker] uh, an elevated "hmm"?
[speaker002:] I hadn't thought of that. "
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] It's like a m sort of more surprise, or engagement?
[speaker004:] Yeah. "Hmm." Yeah. Or [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Hhh.
[speaker004:] I [disfmarker] i I don't know.
[speaker001:] I yeah. I guess it could have [pause] two meanings, sort of.
[speaker004:] Maybe. Yeah.
[speaker006:] If it's surprise then the exclamation point makes sense, too.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. And then there's the other kind which sounds similar, but it's really part of a laugh. So, "Hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm".
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Which is [disfmarker] I would just say "laugh" for that.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Laugh. Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Yeah, once, Adam was laughing, and it was actually written out phonetically, and I changed it. I'm like "it's just laughing".
[speaker005:] Good.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Well done. Well done.
[speaker006:] Like somebody had written, like "hyuh hyuh" or [disfmarker] or [disfmarker] or something. And [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] I've run across that also. And [disfmarker] Right. Change it to "laugh".
[speaker001:] That's funny.
[speaker006:] Yeah, i I [disfmarker] it was maybe Tigerfish had done something
[speaker005:] Well done.
[speaker006:] like they had written out a phonetic laugh,
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah.
[speaker006:] and they didn't do it at any other place in the transcript.
[speaker003:] That's interesting.
[speaker004:] That's interesting.
[speaker005:] I ran across a couple "ho"'s occ
[speaker006:] It was just that one spot.
[speaker005:] I've seen "ho"'s
[speaker006:] It was just a regular old vanilla laugh, you know.
[speaker001:] "Ho ho ho"?
[speaker005:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Oh, that is too much fun.
[speaker005:] and "heh".
[speaker006:] It wasn't anything special.
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
[speaker004:] I noticed, i m as far as problems with laughs, is that a lot of them were marked as breaths.
[speaker005:] W we [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Because a lot of people,
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker004:] I think we already talked about this last time,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] but [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] but not so much as, I never saw that written out phonetically, or whatever.
[speaker005:] Well i
[speaker006:] Well [disfmarker] well, here's a question, and there's been some variance in transcripts that I've looked at. When [disfmarker] OK. So when you laugh, you're exhaling all this air,
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker006:] and so you need to i inhale,
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker006:] and [disfmarker] so how do you transcribe the inhale? Some people are transcribing it as a breath. I I used to, you know, back in the day [disfmarker] back when I was do transcribing, I would do the whole thing as a laugh
[speaker005:] Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah?
[speaker004:] Yeah, that's what I used to do too.
[speaker005:] Uh huh. Yeah, yeah.
[speaker006:] because to me the breath is part of the laugh.
[speaker005:] I agree with you.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] That's [disfmarker] that's what I prefer.
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] Um, so [disfmarker] cuz i cuz in the ones I've been che the one I've been checking actually right now, that breath gets marked as a breath,
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] and I've been taking them out.
[speaker004:] So you would have like "lef laugh, breath, laugh"
[speaker005:] Good. Well done.
[speaker006:] So that's OK?
[speaker005:] Well done.
[speaker006:] Actually, it'd be a "laugh"
[speaker004:] transcribed?
[speaker006:] and then two dots, like the next bin will be empty,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] and then it'll be "breath".
[speaker004:] Oh, I've [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] And so it'll be that [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] s Yeah. I was gonna say, I put [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker004:] I see what you're saying.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] it'll be three d sort of separate units as opposed to [disfmarker] I think it's sort of one coherent thing.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker003:] I put "breath laugh" in the brackets when I don't know whether it's a breath or a laugh,
[speaker005:] That's good. That's good.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] which is what [disfmarker] I remember you telling me to do that.
[speaker006:] Oh, well, yeah, that's [disfmarker] that's a different thing.
[speaker005:] That's right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Mmm. OK.
[speaker006:] Yeah. S cuz sometimes it's not clear.
[speaker005:] That's good.
[speaker004:] Sometimes it's hard to tell.
[speaker006:] Like sometimes "Hhh!" is a laugh.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] That's right.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] Um, and if other people are laughing, then I'll usually give them [disfmarker] and say that they're laughing.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] And [disfmarker] I agree with you.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker005:] And [disfmarker] and I think that's important
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] because we're capturing then the communicative level.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Exactly.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm. Exactly.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] And it's likely that it has a different contour than most breaths as well.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Because it's sort of expulsive and [disfmarker] and, uh, that kind of thing.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Ex exactly. Exactly.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] A lot of people go,
[speaker005:] Well done.
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker005:] Yes they do. Yeah, the shyer ones sometimes will laugh i with the breath laugh. And you can see it.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker005:] You can see the little [disfmarker] little peaks, which is interesting.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] But yes. Yeah, exactly. I wouldn't, uh [disfmarker] i That's a case whe you know, I know generally with the Tigerfish things that they put "breath" and we leave it in. But absolutely there, yeah.
[speaker006:] Good. OK.
[speaker005:] "Laugh", change it. And, you know, there are other places where it's in the way, you know. I [disfmarker] I mainly said not to change their "breath"'s simply because it would take time to move them if [disfmarker] and if they're not in the way then don't [disfmarker] don't mess with it,
[speaker001:] A lot of times, though, the breaths are, um, results of bad segmentation,
[speaker005:] but [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] and there's a segmentation of nothing,
[speaker005:] Oh yes!
[speaker001:] and so they just write it as a breath when it's clearly not a breath.
[speaker004:] Yeah. I've taken out some of those.
[speaker001:] And I usually always take those out.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] I mean, usually, um, it seems like the segmenter, um, often just sort of, um, segments [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Great.
[speaker001:] when there's really long spaces, [comment] it segments random spaces in between. And th you know, they get that and there's nothing there, so they m s mark it as a breath when it's really actually nothing. So usually I take those out.
[speaker005:] That's right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Well they give the segmenter, though [disfmarker] cuz they don't have the [disfmarker] the rich interface that we do, so the they must be giving the pre segmenter sort of the benefit of the doubt, "Well, there must be something there, um, whether I can hear it or not."
[speaker001:] Right. Right. Exactly, exactly.
[speaker004:] Oh, yeah. I'm sure they are.
[speaker006:] So, they just say, "Well, it's a breath then".
[speaker001:] Exactly.
[speaker005:] One wonders what it might be [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Although, they did put a "missing segment" so sometimes in brackets.
[speaker005:] Yeah. Yeah, there are some where [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Yes!
[speaker001:] Oh really?
[speaker006:] That's true.
[speaker001:] Oh, I always get [disfmarker] I always get "breath".
[speaker005:] Yeah. Well, see, I [disfmarker] I do a previous filtering before I give the Tigerfish ones out,
[speaker004:] I've gotten both.
[speaker005:] and [disfmarker] and I u I have tried to get the [disfmarker] that particular the [disfmarker] the "missing segment" removed.
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] But I don't always do it.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah. I've seen a few of them,
[speaker006:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] So yeah, you've s they slip through.
[speaker006:] Well, frequently that'll also be a misattribution too, of voice.
[speaker004:] but I've seen a [disfmarker] several "breath"'s too.
[speaker001:] Hmm!
[speaker004:] Yeah! Yeah.
[speaker006:] Cuz then you'll hear [vocalsound] [disfmarker] you'll hear part of what another person is saying and th tha and that's all transcribed on that one level, but then you'll hear a little bit of it and then "missing segment".
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] It's like, OK, well they just [disfmarker] it's in the wrong [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] It's just in the wrong place.
[speaker006:] That person's not talking at all ". So, you just get rid of it.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker006:] So.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Interesting. OK, well, let's see, so, um, do you think that this has changed your speech [disfmarker] n in other ways, in terms of [disfmarker] Myself, I do feel that I'm [disfmarker] when I spend a lot of hours doing this I become less fluent. I have more false starts and things.
[speaker004:] Really?
[speaker005:] Yeah. I don't know if it's [disfmarker] It could just be because there're so many more hours I haven't been talking.
[speaker006:] Hmm!
[speaker003:] I guess I try to be more careful in my speech, more often.
[speaker005:] Good.
[speaker003:] Unless I'm really not paying any attention like, you know, if I'm at a party or something, and I'm just sort of having a good time, then it doesn't really matter, but in n you know, normal one on one speech I [disfmarker] I think I tend to try to enunciate more.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Cuz I've been told I mumble.
[speaker005:] Oh! Huh!
[speaker003:] Um, and I guess I used to be worse about it. I was told by my parents that I used to mumble a lot.
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker003:] Uh, and also I [disfmarker] I have this sort of East Coast accent that comes in sometimes that makes it hard for people on the West Coast to understand what I'm saying.
[speaker005:] Hmm!
[speaker003:] A lot of times like, uh, if I'm not paying attention I'll say something that, uh, will not really be heard. I tend to leave off final consonants, for instance, and people, uh, n I have to be conscious of that sometimes.
[speaker005:] Hmm!
[speaker003:] Yeah, so.
[speaker005:] So mainly for clarity, it sounds like, like in phrasing or strategies.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker004:] Hmm. One thing that I noticed [disfmarker] I don't know if it's a [disfmarker] really a question of me being more c changing my speech necessarily, but I'm much more aware of interruptions in conversation [disfmarker] in normal conversation.
[speaker005:] Oh!
[speaker006:] Oh, yeah. That's true.
[speaker005:] Oh.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] So, uh, maybe I am more careful [comment] in the sense that I maybe don't interrupt as much, or j I'm more aware of it when I am doing it, or something like that, but, um, I just pay attention more to the fact that every [disfmarker] pretty much all the time in normal conversation there are interruptions. There's no [disfmarker] I mean, unless you have really aw I mean, I think if there were no interruptions it would sound really awkward.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] There would be a lot of pauses, and that would kind of i imply uncomfortability, or something.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] But,
[speaker005:] I guess it depends partly on the type of interruption.
[speaker004:] yeah.
[speaker005:] I mean, if it's a clarifying type like [disfmarker] "well do you mean [disfmarker]?" when they're partway through it in a utterance.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's different.
[speaker003:] Yeah. I tend to think of a conversation that has no interruptions as being something that's [disfmarker] n unnatural and forced. Or something like a meeting where, you know, I mean everybody says [disfmarker] their little schpiel
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and people are meant to be, you know, pretty [disfmarker] pretty quiet and attentive for the most part. And then they let them finish, and then somebody else comes in and says something about it.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Um, and in a n like a friendly conversation I [disfmarker] I notice that that's not really true. Like what you were saying.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] But even in cases like that, [comment] even when it is [disfmarker] see now I'm contradicting myself, but even when it is very [disfmarker] turn taking is very w like people follow the turn taking rules, or whatever, and don't really blatantly interrupt people, um, and I [disfmarker] I remember this actually from a meeting because Liz was complaining there wasn't enough o interruptions, or e not enough overlaps, or something.
[speaker003:] Huh!
[speaker004:] It wasn't interruptions it was overlaps, that I was thinking about.
[speaker005:] Uh huh. I think this is really [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Not enough overlaps.
[speaker005:] yeah.
[speaker004:] And so she wanted to [disfmarker] there to be an argument or something so that there'd d be more. And ch what she didn't realize was that throughout the meeting up until then there had been, they were just very small, but they were there. I think they're there pretty much a all the time.
[speaker005:] I agree. I did [disfmarker] I did do one analysis wh where I looked at one meeting,
[speaker003:] That's interesting.
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] and, um [disfmarker] th cuz the claim had been, actually o one of the people in the meeting had made the claim in the previous meeting that, "Well, there [disfmarker] probably the overlaps only occur during setup and, um, you know, at the end when we're leaving."
[speaker004:] Oh!
[speaker006:] Oh yeah, that's totally not true.
[speaker002:] Hmm!
[speaker003:] No, not at all.
[speaker005:] Exactly. Exactly.
[speaker004:] Yeah!
[speaker005:] Well, and, you know, I think that that's sort of the feeling you would get if [disfmarker] unless you looked at the data at this level.
[speaker004:] Yeah! Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] And so I did an analysis and in fact it was really a pretty constant rate
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] all the way through the entire meeting and everyone was involved.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Wasn't just one, you know, or two speakers. Everyone was [disfmarker] Yeah. It's quite true.
[speaker003:] Kind of makes sense because if you're [disfmarker] if you wanna speak next, it's almost like you got y you gotta get your foot in the door. You gotta be the one who [disfmarker] you know, make sure people recognize that you're the one who's gonna speak next.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] That's true.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] I should say, I didn't distinguish between overlaps and [disfmarker] and interruptions. So some of these were backchannels and things like that.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Oh, I see.
[speaker005:] But it's still [disfmarker] It's still the case.
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] You have [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] y you [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] I think, um, silences are generally like [vocalsound] not good in conversation too. Cuz once you get a sil You know, it [disfmarker] it [disfmarker] it's to your benefit to [disfmarker] to try to get in right when you think they're done because if there's a silence, not only is it awkward, [comment] but then that sort of cues everybody to start thinking of a new topic to stop the silence,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker001:] and then you don't get to talk about what you wanted to talk about [comment] because the whole subject has changed.
[speaker004:] And then everybody talks at once.
[speaker005:] That's true. That's very true.
[speaker004:] You know, thinking about it,
[speaker001:] You know? S
[speaker004:] I [disfmarker] I think I've only noticed a couple times where there's been actual silence on all channels for a period of time.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Hmm!
[speaker004:] It's only been like twice.
[speaker005:] It's true. That's very rare.
[speaker006:] It's rare.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I agree.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Interesting observation. Yeah. Well, if they're i c if [disfmarker] this has raised a couple of things for me that I wanted to mention
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] because, you know, at this point, we're at the [disfmarker] at the really fine grain level of [disfmarker] of standardization which I hadn't really thought of specifying in advance before, and, um, wanted to maybe just mention a couple of things. These are, um [disfmarker] Yeah, I don't think that these are very common. But with the idea that [disfmarker] what we're trying to do is encode the communicative stuff, um, when we have these grey areas, um, w um, I wanted to draw attention to the fact that there are sometimes these stretches where a person is trying to say something and formulating their thought, and they're coming out with a bunch of segments, which really aren't part of a word. Have you run across that where they're [disfmarker] they're saying
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah, yeah. [comment] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] and then they say a word.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] And, my feeling on that is, that this isn't really a phonological transcript, and potentially those things could probably be rendered, although some of them are not even full segments, they're even sub s subsegmental, I would say. I mean, you got a [disfmarker] a single flap of a vocal cord sometimes,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] and, you know, they're th it's like the [disfmarker] the apparatus is sort of almost kicking in, they're almost gonna say but it hasn't [disfmarker] somehow this [disfmarker] somehow this vibration hit before the rest of it and [disfmarker] and that's not communicative.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So, um, my [disfmarker] my the way I do those things when I hear those, if [disfmarker] is to [disfmarker] I use in parentheses one "X" [vocalsound] so it's marked.
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Or if it's [@ @] [comment] then I [comment] [disfmarker] then I put six or seven or however many it is [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Then [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] That's what I usually do too.
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker006:] I was wondering who had been putting those in.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Great. And then [disfmarker] and then what I do is I put in, um, brackets, um, uncodeable [disfmarker] Sorry, "Uncodeable vocal sounds".
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker006:] Yes.
[speaker003:] Oh, OK. OK.
[speaker005:] And of course, potentially they're codable, but i I just wanted to mark roughly how man how long it is,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] then indicate what [disfmarker] what the nature of it is, so no one's gonna try and go back and [disfmarker] and decode it as something that's pechen a a word that was not [disfmarker] It has a different status than parenthesized, uh, parts when there are words involved,
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] just to set it aside, have some sort of a length indication, and sometimes I'll even put them in a [disfmarker] in a separate bin, although that's [disfmarker] that's not necessary. It's just sometimes it works out that way that they [@ @],
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] they do this thing. I shouldn't do that so often. I'm sorry about that. They do this sound, and then there's a pause, and then they start speaking,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] so then it's really obvious, I can [disfmarker] I can split it apart and it won't be any problem. I wanted to mention that one,
[speaker006:] Man!
[speaker003:] I'm glad you ment brought that up
[speaker005:] yeah.
[speaker003:] because I actually [disfmarker] I'm one of the culprits that puts in all the little itsy bitsy tiny sounds in the middle of everything,
[speaker004:] Mmm.
[speaker006:] I do that too!
[speaker003:] because I was [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] I used to do that!
[speaker003:] because [disfmarker] Yeah. Cuz I was thinking, like, you're just supposed to write down everything you hear as closely as possible.
[speaker005:] Well [disfmarker] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] And so, I'm glad you said that because, um, that actually takes a good amount of time, and like pretty strict concentration [vocalsound] to d to do that.
[speaker006:] A lot of time.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. [comment] I put in the "X"s.
[speaker003:] Um,
[speaker005:] Excellent.
[speaker003:] and so [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] I put in [disfmarker] if it's, um, unintelligible I put [disfmarker] I count how many syllables and then I put in "six X" [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] I do that if it's unintelligible, but if I can tell something [disfmarker] if somebody goes "r" I'll put an "R".
[speaker005:] Oh, I see. I see.
[speaker003:] Eh [disfmarker] Um, so if they go "r e m m", I'll go "R" "EH" "mmm" m "M" "M".
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker002:] Hmm.
[speaker003:] So like I [disfmarker] I've been doing that because like that's what I can hear.
[speaker005:] OK.
[speaker003:] And I'm pretty damn sure that [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] sorry. Sorry! Sorry. Hhh!
[speaker001:] That will have to be transcribed with little, uh, symbols.
[speaker003:] Sorry! I'm sorry.
[speaker006:] Yeah. Like a [disfmarker] a skull and crossbones.
[speaker003:] I feel really bad now. Oh no! I'm sorry!
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] OK [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] That's OK. It's alright.
[speaker001:] You've ruined the whole meeting!
[speaker005:] No problem.
[speaker001:] We can't transcribe any of it now!
[speaker006:] It's not [disfmarker] i it's [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Oh no, I'm so sorry.
[speaker006:] Yeah. It's not like you said the F word.
[speaker005:] No, no, no.
[speaker006:] It's not [disfmarker] it's not an [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] This is not [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] it's still a PG [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah, seriously.
[speaker005:] I wouldn't give it a second thought.
[speaker004:] Do you remember what you were gonna say?
[speaker003:] Oh yeah [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I was [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] She's pretty darn sure that, uh,
[speaker003:] Ah [disfmarker] and then [disfmarker] tha Yeah, that's wha
[speaker005:] You sh Yeah [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] she could make it out probably.
[speaker001:] OK. [comment] Right.
[speaker003:] I'm sorry.
[speaker006:] Yeah, no one's ever sworn in any of the meetings!
[speaker005:] Well, y you've heard [disfmarker] have you heard "shoot"?
[speaker006:] That actually [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] I've heard "shoot" a couple of times.
[speaker003:] I've heard the [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Not the swearword version.
[speaker001:] Hmm [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] No, no, no, no, no, no, the
[speaker006:] Just "shoot".
[speaker005:] "shoot" type, yeah.
[speaker003:] I've heard the swearword version.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] That's OK.
[speaker003:] Remember that?
[speaker001:] Oh, you have?
[speaker005:] Yeah?
[speaker003:] Remember that?
[speaker001:] I've never heard the swearword versions.
[speaker005:] Oh.
[speaker003:] It was a while back. I [disfmarker] it was a long time ago.
[speaker005:] I do remember that. Yeah.
[speaker003:] Yeah, and I was like, "Oah!" I emailed you, I was like, "M You might wanna check this out."
[speaker005:] That's right. That's right.
[speaker003:] Yeah, I do remember that.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] But it was very quiet. So I can see how that would have been sort of gone over by accident. It was just very quiet, like kind of under the breath [comment] kind of thing,
[speaker005:] Uh huh, yeah.
[speaker004:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] Yeah, it was.
[speaker003:] so that's why it was missed.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] I can understand.
[speaker006:] Hmm!
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Yeah. B but y t finish your point. So, y
[speaker003:] Oh! [vocalsound] I was just [comment] [disfmarker] I was just [vocalsound] saying that, um, I [disfmarker] I can [vocalsound] [disfmarker] I'm pretty sure that I can tell what [disfmarker] exactly what sounds are being produced.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker003:] So if it's "er", I write an "R".
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] If it's "mmm", I can tell it's [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Then again, I always think that it's closer to stick with the X because it's, like, how effective is, you know, the Roman alphabet at deciphering all the sounds that a human can make.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] You know, it's not the IPA and [disfmarker] it's just, I [disfmarker] I just sort of think, um, it's best to leave it with X
[speaker002:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] because I [disfmarker] [vocalsound] y English orthography conventions are just so, you know, uncertain anyway in the first place, and, um [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] you know, I [disfmarker] I usually only use them when I [disfmarker] I know that, um, the person was trying to make a word. I mean, I know that the [disfmarker] the word they were trying to say and that they were stuttering that, then I feel fine just you know, writing out the letters. But otherwise, I sort of don't feel right trying to write them out because I feel like it's, um [disfmarker] you can't really [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Just not useful?
[speaker001:] Yeah, you can't really spell those things with the R with the Roman alphabet,
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah?
[speaker001:] you know?
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] It's [disfmarker] it was only set up for [disfmarker]
[speaker006:] Right.
[speaker001:] it was set up for a different purpose, you know. Not necessarily so phonological.
[speaker005:] I agree. And I think there's another problem too,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker005:] and that is that we do have some short words which are communicative. And [disfmarker] and sometimes [disfmarker] So, if you have an "ER" as part of one of these fragments, we do have a lexicalized "er"
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] which is a [disfmarker] which is a [disfmarker] a filler item.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker005:] Does have a meaning.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So I think for both of the reasons it's good to just leave it in this category of not really communicating in a [disfmarker] in a word like way.
[speaker003:] So even if it's "er", or [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] I would keep "er". Well, "E" [disfmarker] "er" [disfmarker] "er" if it's a filler.
[speaker003:] Oh, you would keep "er".
[speaker005:] So, "I mean, er,"
[speaker003:] Right, right.
[speaker005:] th that [disfmarker] that [disfmarker] that stays.
[speaker001:] Mmm [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Right. Oh, OK.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Oh yeah.
[speaker005:] But if it's p uh, part on these little fragments, no.
[speaker001:] I always [disfmarker] I often transcribe that as "or". I always thought that was "or" sort of with a strange pronunciation.
[speaker005:] Oh. I'm making a distinction.
[speaker006:] Oh.
[speaker005:] So you have the, um, comic "er" where the person says something and then they pretend that they didn't wanna say that,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] and then they throw in an "er".
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker005:] m and that would be an "er".
[speaker001:] Oh, I don't get that one.
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] ER. But if they're saying "or" in a reduced way so it comes out as "er", do it as "or".
[speaker001:] R Right. OK.
[speaker005:] Cuz that's [disfmarker] that falls within the realm of pronunciation variants.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker001:] m OK.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] It's just like different ways of saying "and".
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] OK. And I have like, uh, uh, two more things I wanted to say. One of them is, um [disfmarker] Oh, yeah. This is an interesting category to me, and I don't, um, y y don't have to mark this systematically. But when you're going through the meeting, and what I'd like people to do if [disfmarker] if you're not [disfmarker] uh, uh [disfmarker] is to go through the meeting, um [disfmarker] So, if you're doing [disfmarker] you're doing separate channels first and then as a final pass through the mixed channel, I don't think I've made that explicit but it w it's really helpful to go through it a [disfmarker] a final time though the mixed channel so that you hear things in context. And at that point what I sometimes pick up is this meta level, where someone is [disfmarker] finishes someone's [disfmarker] someone else's utterance.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So you'll suddenly have this stranded word out in the middle of nowhere, and it's because this other speaker on this other channel was trying to formulate this thought, and they paused, and they paused just enough that this person leaped in and gave them a word.
[speaker004:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker005:] And I think those are interesting, so when I find that I [disfmarker] I note [disfmarker] note it as, you know, finishing [disfmarker] put capital letters. Capital letter, capital letter, colon, apostrophe "S", utterance.
[speaker004:] Oh!
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker006:] Wait, wait. How do you mark it?
[speaker001:] Wait.
[speaker003:] We add the [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] So, if [vocalsound] [disfmarker] so in the examp i in the instance in which [disfmarker] Let's say that, um, Morgan's talking, uh, so, [nonvocalsound] he's talking. And then somewhere there's a bit of a pause, and let's say Adam fills in a word for him. Then what I do is, on Adam's channel, I say [disfmarker] I say, "Completing [disfmarker]" And this [disfmarker] this isn't that common of an occurrence. [comment] "Completing speaker initial with a colon apostrophe" S "'s utterance ".
[speaker006:] Oh, I see.
[speaker004:] Oh!
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker005:] And what that means is at the time when we [disfmarker] See we're gonna go to a stage of anonymization. So it's important to have the colon here
[speaker001:] Oh.
[speaker005:] because that'll make it possible to easily know, you know, who it was without having to do the math involved in figuring out which channel it was. The problem with [disfmarker] I originally wanted to use channel numbers as the referent index, but that [disfmarker] that's not functional because we have these two different numbering schemes. You have the numbering in the Channeltrans interface and you have the numbering in the "key" file
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] and those can be very different.
[speaker001:] Right. Right.
[speaker005:] So, you know, to be able to,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] uh [disfmarker] Th this is redundant in a useful way in that you know that you're not gonna make a mistake. I tried to do it with the numbers and I was making all sorts of inconsistent problems, so I stopped it.
[speaker003:] So that's probably why you, like, added in that, um, thing that automatically puts in the people's initials.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Initials?
[speaker005:] That's [disfmarker] that's [disfmarker] I did that partly to keep track of things. Absolutely. Absolutely.
[speaker004:] I I also found that it was easier to deal with the meetings when there are speaker initials.
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker005:] Somet
[speaker003:] Oh yeah. Initials.
[speaker005:] The initials? I'm glad to hear that.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] I st I didn't do that systematically until, uh, really rather recently,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] so. I I'm glad to know that's useful.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] It s takes an extra step. Glad it's useful. OK, now I just have one more thing to say and that is that, um, um, like once [disfmarker] this is just such a rea I'm getting down to like the really eensy weensy stuff. But, um, once [vocalsound] I found a comment that, uh, in in curly brackets about mumbling. And, um, i g that's [disfmarker] that's [disfmarker] this is just to mention an instance that happened once, it's really grasping for details.
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] But, um, I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] f I think, and it may be that it was not from anybody here, so. But I think that, um, "mumble" is only useful in the s to me, in the sense of "whispered", if it's like a manner of speaking, in which case it's a "QUAL". But not in terms of replacing, like, this string of undecipherable fragments. So,
[speaker001:] Oh, right.
[speaker003:] Right. Oh yeah.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker005:] um, this [disfmarker] this was u when it was used [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] They used "mumble" for [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] exactly. It was used in place of, uh, something that was in unintelligible.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker003:] To fill in. I see.
[speaker001:] Mmm. Right.
[speaker005:] In which case, it would be better to use parentheses and [disfmarker] and either exclamation, [comment] or the number of syllables, if you know.
[speaker001:] The number "X".
[speaker006:] And then do "QUAL mumbled" or "QUAL whispered" or something.
[speaker005:] Exactly. If it's a manner of speaking, then it's useful.
[speaker006:] I see.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] And otherwise the parentheses with an estimate of syllables is better.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker006:] OK.
[speaker005:] OK. So, I guess, you know, I don't wanna keep you. I kept you so long.
[speaker004:] Can I ask one more thing about these comments.
[speaker005:] I really appreciate this. Yes?
[speaker004:] So we are for [disfmarker] "QUAL" is used for things like "whispered", or "said while laughing", or things of that nature.
[speaker005:] Yes. Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Um, I remember at some point we were doing a difference between vocal and non vocal sounds?
[speaker005:] Oh. Yes. Oh, but [disfmarker] Good question. And you don't have to add any of those tags.
[speaker004:] Oh!
[speaker005:] The only tags that you need to add, is [disfmarker] So [disfmarker] th uh, there's like one exception that's just microscopic, and that is, sometimes [disfmarker] this is again really rare, sometimes I've run across the word "noise". And offhand, I don't know if that's a vocal noise or non vocal noise.
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] And so then I listen to it and I figure it out. But that's the only place you would use a "vocal" [disfmarker] "non vocal" tag, where it's potentially ambiguous between those two categories. Cuz otherwise, what I do when I get these, is [disfmarker] and of course I do my checks, and then I have a, um [disfmarker] a script that I wrote which will separate everything in [disfmarker] out that has curly brackets, do a listing of them,
[speaker001:] Mmm.
[speaker005:] and then anything [disfmarker] Some of them already have tags from some previous, uh, modification, but anything that doesn't, I just go through this list, and I [disfmarker] I k tag it right then. And so, in one [disfmarker] in one [disfmarker] in one change, I can modify, you know, five hundred instances of this.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] So there's no need to add the "vocal" or the "non vocal".
[speaker004:] Very efficient. OK. But for, like, noise that we know is something like mike noise, or something like a door, whatever, then we can mark it as that
[speaker006:] Hmm!
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker006:] Mm hmm.
[speaker005:] Yes.
[speaker004:] and no
[speaker005:] You can either [disfmarker] if you mark it "mike noise" then I'll know what kind of noise it is when I go through the thing and put VOC or NVC on the [disfmarker] in the substitution file.
[speaker004:] Yeah, [comment] right. Or [disfmarker] o or if it's [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Right.
[speaker005:] But it's [disfmarker] it's uh, very efficient for me to add those tags later.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker005:] It's really not [disfmarker] The same thing with the "QUAL". Just so long as I can tell which of those three categories it is. Or [disfmarker] or "pron", but, you know, those [disfmarker] that's really very obvious, the pronunciation.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] So long as I can tell what they are.
[speaker004:] So we do need to add that one?
[speaker005:] I think it's good for you to add the "pron".
[speaker004:] OK. Sure. OK.
[speaker005:] I would appreciate the "pron", [comment] come to think of it.
[speaker006:] Good.
[speaker005:] But the other three [disfmarker] i just so long as it's clear to me, w you know, from the comment which of those three it is, then I'm fine.
[speaker006:] Good.
[speaker005:] That's great. Alright, so, um, I guess, um,
[speaker006:] Do you wanna read digits? Do you wanna do that?
[speaker005:] Oh, thank you, do we have time? Would you mind?
[speaker004:] Yeah, that's fine.
[speaker005:] Can we do digits?
[speaker001:] Yeah. That's fine.
[speaker006:] No?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] OK, so why don't [disfmarker] do you wanna do it, uh, in unison this time?
[speaker004:] That's what we did last time.
[speaker006:] Well, we did it in unison last time.
[speaker003:] We did it [disfmarker]
[speaker005:] Oh we did!
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker005:] Oh!
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker005:] Do it separately, then. OK.
[speaker006:] Sure did.
[speaker001:] Yes.
[speaker005:] Good deal.
[speaker006:] Oh, and do you want us to mark the t roughly the time we start?
[speaker005:] That is really what that time field is. I used to think it was the beginning of the meeting,
[speaker001:] Oh, OK.
[speaker005:] but yes. Quite right. Quite right.
[speaker006:] Oh, OK.
[speaker005:] That'd be good.
[speaker001:] Oh, alright.
[speaker003:] The time we start digits?
[speaker006:] So we have to [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Hmm.
[speaker005:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker005:] OK. So, who wants to start? Well, I guess I'll start. OK. Transc And the time is [disfmarker] OK. Um, O eight. [comment] OK, I wanted to make one comment and that is, some of these are like two digits and just be sure you say both digits separately. So, one eight instead of eighteen. OK.
[speaker006:] Sure.
[speaker001:] Oh. Right.
[speaker003:] I can go.
[speaker005:] OK. OK. Wonderful. Thank you very, very much. I really appreciate this.
[speaker006:] No problem.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker005:] And, um, so now we get to turn the microphones off,
[speaker003:] Sure.
[speaker005:] and, uh [disfmarker]