[speaker002:] OK. So.
[speaker003:] I think that's recording now.
[speaker002:] OK, I'm on [disfmarker] [vocalsound] I'm talking on mike two. So, Which channel is that?
[speaker003:] Um, do it again.
[speaker002:] Mike number two, I'm talking right now on?
[speaker003:] That's uh [disfmarker] That's in channel one.
[speaker002:] Mike number two? Channel one? Is that channel one or channel zero?
[speaker003:] Channel one. Let me make sure.
[speaker001:] Channel one.
[speaker003:] There are no [disfmarker] There's only one connection element.
[speaker002:] which is zero based or one based?
[speaker003:] It's zero based.
[speaker002:] OK, So we're not going to do that. OK.
[speaker003:] Unfortunately the mikes are [pause] you know [disfmarker] This [disfmarker] this has the disadvantage of needing to put the numbers on the mikes.
[speaker001:] off by one.
[speaker003:] Consistently not equal to the numbers [disfmarker] numbers on the channels.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Wh that's why I wanted to write it down, but Dan just doesn't want to do that.
[speaker004:] Well
[speaker003:] Well, you can write it down. I mean [pause] Write down whatever you like.
[speaker002:] Thank you.
[speaker004:] Write down that poem. Let us know when you're done, though cuz we want to start the meeting. Now, how do you do the mike?
[speaker002:] OK, now, that means [disfmarker] if I'm going to be standing in there looking, [comment] then someone else has to write them down.
[speaker004:] I keep getting it in my nose.
[speaker003:] I don't know. You can do whatever [disfmarker] any way you like.
[speaker004:] Oh! Oh! This is good. Oh! I like this.
[speaker002:] because I won
[speaker003:] The weird thing is that um it means that it varies when you move your head around
[speaker004:] I like this.
[speaker002:] OK. Fine.
[speaker003:] but [disfmarker] [vocalsound] [pause] I think it's probably the better solution.
[speaker002:] Let's not try [pause] to do anything too easy.
[speaker004:] I like this, this is much more comfortable.
[speaker003:] OK?
[speaker002:] Testing.
[speaker004:] I could have it more at the midline. Boy! It's very [pause] adjustable now.
[speaker001:] So go ahead.
[speaker004:] I'm on number four.
[speaker003:] Do we have the numbers? the the sheets, that we did from last time? so we can do them again?
[speaker001:] Can [disfmarker] So we can do them again?
[speaker002:] Yep. They're [pause] in the folder right there.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Great.
[speaker004:] May I pass the folder to Dan?
[speaker002:] You may.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker002:] So, Jane, can you talk into your mike? You said it's mike four?
[speaker004:] I'm mike [disfmarker] I'm on mike four. and it's a very nice microphone, very modern.
[speaker002:] Well, hmm, I'm glad you like it.
[speaker004:] I like it very much.
[speaker002:] Uh Eric, what mike are you?
[speaker001:] I'm on channel one [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Mike one [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mike one, channel zero, probably.
[speaker002:] Looks like it. S talk again?
[speaker001:] Channel zero.
[speaker002:] Thank you.
[speaker003:] I'm on uh mike three. This is mike three, coming in here. It's moving around as I move my head backwards and forwards. So that's just the way it goes. That's life. That's just what it does.
[speaker002:] OK.
[speaker004:] You didn't get the s head restraint with your system?
[speaker003:] That's right.
[speaker001:] Head restraint system?
[speaker004:] I did modify my my mike uh distance from my speaking apparatus.
[speaker002:] Um, can you [pause] do taps on the P D
[speaker004:] Slightly.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker002:] and the P Z
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker002:] And you have to actually check what the nu
[speaker003:] P Z Ms? or [disfmarker] [pause] or not P Z
[speaker002:] The Start with P Z
[speaker003:] Because this is PZM number three.
[speaker002:] Thank you.
[speaker003:] Let's list them in order.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker003:] PZM number three was the furthest away. This is the next one in, which is PZM number four, [comment] apparently.
[speaker002:] I can't tell.
[speaker003:] PZ What Can you [disfmarker] can you see other stuff happening?
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker003:] This is PZM number four.
[speaker002:] Thanks.
[speaker004:] That's a good way.
[speaker001:] OK. This is PZM two.
[speaker002:] F [comment] Thank you.
[speaker001:] And this is PZM one.
[speaker003:] which is closest to the machine room.
[speaker001:] Which [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Should I draw a map?
[speaker002:] OK.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker003:] I mean [comment] I don't know.
[speaker002:] And PDA, left, right?
[speaker003:] It's all hopeless. This is uh one side of PDA, I guess. We could actually give these sides names, right? This would be left, wouldn't it.
[speaker002:] I don't see anything.
[speaker003:] I know,
[speaker001:] Huh uh.
[speaker003:] but I'm just [pause] asking.
[speaker004:] He's labelling [disfmarker] he's labelling right now.
[speaker003:] I wasn't asking you.
[speaker001:] He's?
[speaker002:] Ah.
[speaker003:] This is [disfmarker] this is PDA left.
[speaker004:] Now.
[speaker003:] You getting something there?
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker003:] And this is PDA right.
[speaker002:] All OK.
[speaker003:] They will vary in future.
[speaker002:] Thank you.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] Because it depends which one of these shows more consistency then.
[speaker002:] Did we just record all that? Should we start it over?
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker002:] OK.
[speaker003:] Well, we're w we're so ahead of the game now, cuz we've got built in downsampling now.
[speaker004:] We have what? What do we have?
[speaker003:] We've got built in downsampling. And so it's only recording [pause] sixteen kilohertz data, and we've got [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Wait a second.
[speaker003:] We're not select We're not recording the empty channels.
[speaker002:] The ones that aren't filled out are the ones you want to hand out.
[speaker003:] What about the ones that we didn't record?
[speaker001:] No, I was looking for the ones [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] I threw the ones out, that we already recorded but we didn't record.
[speaker001:] Oh. OK.
[speaker003:] OK?
[speaker001:] Well, then, fine.
[speaker003:] Fine. Then it doesn't matter,
[speaker004:] Well done.
[speaker001:] See if we care.
[speaker003:] does it.
[speaker004:] Well done.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker004:] You're probably wondering why I brought you all here today.
[speaker001:] Right. But before w before we [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Before that.
[speaker002:] Right. So the first task is to read some digits.
[speaker001:] Before that.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So I'll go ahead and start. And [pause] This is Adam on mike number two, So. If you could just fill out the form, and then later on we'll read it, with pauses between.
[speaker004:] Good.
[speaker002:] And we're session two.
[speaker001:] Do you wanna read next,
[speaker004:] Shall I [disfmarker] n
[speaker001:] or d?
[speaker004:] I'd like to hear one [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Let her fill it out and go ahead and read.
[speaker004:] Yeah, I'd like to hear one more.
[speaker001:] uh OK. Um, this is Eric on [vocalsound] mike one, the wireless lapel, channel zero. um,
[speaker004:] Could I hear you next?
[speaker003:] OK. So, this is Dan on mike three, wireless headset, I'm wearing it around my neck. which may be different than wearing it on the head.
[speaker004:] OK. So, basically they're kind of like sentences but with n numbers instead of words. OK. So, I'm [disfmarker] I'm on uh number four with the microphone around my neck and I will read these.
[speaker002:] So you wanna pause [pause] briefly between each one so that the person transcribing can tell [pause] where one ends and one begins.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker003:] And [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] So, a short sentence between each line.
[speaker004:] It really sounds like sentences. Your intonation sounds like [disfmarker] somewhat like sentence intonation.
[speaker002:] Well, [pause] you can intone it however you want. Imagine that you're [vocalsound] reading a number [disfmarker] phone number to someone.
[speaker004:] OK. Yeah?
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker004:] Um, OK.
[speaker002:] OK. Good. Thanks.
[speaker003:] Great.
[speaker002:] So we'll probably do another one at the end [pause] of the meeting. just to get some more digits.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And, uh
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker002:] Thank you.
[speaker004:] If I were to be dictating a phone number, I would have done that more slowly, but uh [disfmarker] which would have been easier for the [disfmarker] of course, for the machine. But. Was that an OK pace?
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker003:] It's kind of weird.
[speaker001:] Yeah. It's fine.
[speaker003:] That was great, what you did. Um
[speaker004:] OK. Just as long as it's with [disfmarker] you know, uh within the constraints.
[speaker002:] What what's your mike number, Jane?
[speaker004:] Number four. Oh, Sorry.
[speaker002:] Dan doesn't remember what sex he is.
[speaker003:] Yeah, cuz I figure no one's going to be able to figure it out from the [disfmarker] from my name.
[speaker002:] That's true, it's [disfmarker] it's really difficult.
[speaker003:] So, Yeah.
[speaker004:] and the voice. Just no way.
[speaker002:] Well, don't you [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I wrote a scanner program that scans these forms in.
[speaker003:] Oh, right, right, right.
[speaker002:] Anyway. So, why did I call you all here?
[speaker004:] Yes.
[speaker002:] Um, what I'd like to talk about is, um the transcription.
[speaker004:] Oh, you did.
[speaker002:] So, as part of this um project, we need to transcribe these meetings. um, to do training and test and so on. and, uh, so we need word transcripts and, uh, speaker change identification. So, speaker ID. And, uh so I'd sort of like to know [pause] who's going to do that, hi Jane, and uh [comment] what tools to use, what other resources you might need, and also what we [disfmarker] things like just the data format and how we're going to do it.
[speaker001:] So, I'm just curious how [disfmarker] how [disfmarker] h how exactly you got roped into this. I mean [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Oh. Um, because my name was [disfmarker] was mentioned when I wasn't around, but I'm most happy.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker002:] Oh really?
[speaker001:] Good.
[speaker002:] Cuz Morgan said he asked you.
[speaker004:] Oh, uh he did. and [disfmarker] and I approved.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] but I think that I was uh proposed before I was asked? And that doesn't matter cuz I think there was probably an a uh y an indication that [disfmarker] that I was interested in advance
[speaker001:] Oh. Yeah. That would be m That would be my fault.
[speaker004:] and, in which case, I thank you.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Uh right.
[speaker002:] And so, one of the first questions is, "do you need help?"
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker003:] Well, hang on.
[speaker001:] Oh?
[speaker002:] That's not the first question.
[speaker003:] Well, [vocalsound] Well, I guess.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker003:] Do you [disfmarker] So, do you [disfmarker] What are [disfmarker] what are we talking about? That you're gonna [disfmarker] you're gonna do transcriptions? You're going to listen to these things and [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I'm going to provide [disfmarker] I'm going to be [disfmarker] once I'm given the data, I will provide w word level transcripts with uh indication of speakers,
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker004:] and um I guess speaker change in any case, so speaker ID, and words.
[speaker001:] OK. So you're gonna do the actual transcription yourself.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker003:] D I And do you have a clear [disfmarker] I mean, is that [disfmarker] Do you sort of [disfmarker] Are you going to have to make up what you do or do you have a very clear idea of what you're going to do? So I mean, is it [disfmarker] is it [disfmarker] Is this l Is it [comment] like something you've done before?
[speaker004:] Well
[speaker003:] or [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I've transcribed a lot.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] But um e you know, the [disfmarker] I mean, there are always ways of doing things more efficiently or more uh [disfmarker] in a more technical technically sophisticated way?
[speaker003:] And, Yeah.
[speaker004:] Do you have to speak true English sentences when you do this?
[speaker003:] Yeah, because as people are going to be listening to it afterwards and saying "Oh listen to her. She couldn't even speak true English sentences!"
[speaker004:] "She can't speak!" "It's terrible!" OK, So [vocalsound] um
[speaker003:] Oh, you're meant [disfmarker] You're meant to speak naturally. You're meant to say "Oh, I didn't realize we were being recorded!"
[speaker002:] Ah [vocalsound] right.
[speaker004:] Yeah. "No one told me that." "This microphone, what's this doing around my neck?"
[speaker002:] Uh, that's [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I was saying before we don't really have to worry about people being surprised by it.
[speaker003:] It's just [disfmarker] It's just jewelry.
[speaker004:] OK, so um typically, what I w you know I [disfmarker] in [disfmarker] uh i what I've done before is I have a [disfmarker] uh tape recorder, with a reverse button.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And you just, you know, if it's word level e you know, you do a [disfmarker] e a r I just hit the r re the rewind button every couple of words
[speaker002:] Play.
[speaker004:] and type [pause] what I know
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] and then [disfmarker] and then at the end do a breeze through to be sure that everything's correct.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] However, they do have software these days which [disfmarker] with a digitized uh record you can have control over replay through some sort of an interface.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Um. I've never used one of those. I know it would be an [disfmarker] a wonderful idea. It's just I haven't transcribed in [disfmarker] in awhile.
[speaker003:] The problem is [disfmarker] The nice thing about transcribers is they have foot pedals,
[speaker004:] I mean [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Foot pedals? I've used transcribing machines. That's fine. um But I frankly didn't find it any more use to me than my [pause] hand held taperecorder.
[speaker003:] Oh. I see.
[speaker004:] However, if we have a transcribing machine I would accept it. The other thing is, you know, having [disfmarker] getting hold of a transcriber. I think that CogSci has one.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] And I could probably borrow one.
[speaker001:] Well, one th
[speaker003:] I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I actually have one.
[speaker004:] You have one yourself?
[speaker003:] Well, Sarah has one
[speaker004:] Oh, I see!
[speaker003:] because she does a lot of transcribing of interviews.
[speaker004:] Oh, super!
[speaker003:] But The crazy thing is we'd have to convert the s we'd have to dump the audio files onto cassette. to use it.
[speaker001:] The other thing is is that we might be [disfmarker] Oh.
[speaker004:] Oh, I see. OK.
[speaker003:] I mean, given that we've already got them digitally it would be [disfmarker] you know, it's quite tempting to use some kind of uh software thing.
[speaker004:] Oh, OK.
[speaker003:] But [disfmarker] but then there's the question of the ergonomic interface, that [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I kn
[speaker002:] Oh, I actually have some foot pedals for the P C.
[speaker001:] Well, that's what I was gonna say, is that Adam has foot pedals that we could probably try and rig something up to [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker004:] Oh, that'd be super.
[speaker003:] What do they connect to?
[speaker002:] Uh, keyboard. and they generate keystrokes.
[speaker003:] Oh, that's totally cool. now how [disfmarker] how do you [disfmarker] how do you decide which keystrokes they generate?
[speaker002:] Um There's a little program that downloads into it. Um.
[speaker003:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] This is great.
[speaker003:] And this is Windows?
[speaker002:] But the program probably only runs in Windows, although I bet we could program it once
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker002:] And [disfmarker] and then put it on another machine and it would work.
[speaker001:] Except for the fact that we would have to unplug it and pow and change [disfmarker] it w
[speaker002:] I haven't used them.
[speaker001:] Does it lose the memory once you've unpowered it?
[speaker002:] I don't know. I don't think it does.
[speaker003:] So hang on. You have [disfmarker] You have these foot pedals but you d you're not using them.
[speaker002:] I'm not using them anymore. I used to use them. So they're currently set up for Shift, Control, and Alt.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] But I r I don't use them. They're not even plugged in.
[speaker003:] Wow. That's so cool. OK.
[speaker004:] This sounds wonderful.
[speaker002:] And so tha uh if that would help, uh I'm certainly willing to donate them.
[speaker003:] Well,
[speaker004:] I'm [disfmarker] I'm open to [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] the d the [disfmarker] well, the uh The part that's not wonderful is someone has to write the software.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yeah, that's true.
[speaker002:] And it [disfmarker] it is a PC connection,
[speaker004:] Well, you know [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] so it would have to go on a P C somewhere.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Now, we're at a pilot phase right now,
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] and [pause] what I was told is that beginning, you know, that the [disfmarker] the pilot data would be something like half hour of uh [disfmarker] or f you know [disfmarker] half hour to forty minutes of running text. And so, [pause] for the pilot thing, you know, of course this would be useful.
[speaker001:] Right, this is the pilot data.
[speaker004:] And I w I wou I'm assu I'm assuming that I would not be uh you know e eh uh transcribing all of it.
[speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, you are [pause] generating it. Well, that [disfmarker] that was part of the question, is that if, for [disfmarker] if we're doing this regularly [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker002:] Imagine we're doing a couple of hours a week of transcripts
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] um, of recording, uh, I wouldn't expect you to do it all.
[speaker004:] No. No, no.
[speaker002:] So the question is do you know of resources that we could use. So are there grad students or undergrads or just commercial services?
[speaker004:] Yes. Mm hmm, yeah, OK, so now I've [disfmarker] I've been involved with some of that. At [disfmarker] at CogSci, um [disfmarker] So, Susan E Susan Ervin Tripp, who you know um would typically, and I've done this too, supervise undergrads to do this kind of thing
[speaker001:] Hmm.
[speaker004:] and they c you know, you can give them like [disfmarker] if you give them a little bit of instruction and [disfmarker] and make it interesting for them they can do it as a two ninety eight or s or, not two ninety eight, what is it, one whatever, undergraduate research credit. Because what you do is, you can [disfmarker] you know, build it into some sort of a [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Oh, really? So we only have to give them credits, We don't have to give them money?
[speaker004:] Well uh, you have to be sure you give them compensation for [disfmarker] you know. of some [disfmarker] of some sort.
[speaker002:] Oh, you do have to pay them.
[speaker001:] Awesome.
[speaker004:] What I mean is it's not necessarily monetary. But if they feel like they're getting something out of it, sometimes you can do it that way.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] And otherwise, as part of a grant, you can [disfmarker] you can do it. some sort of minimal wage.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Well, we [disfmarker] we need to [disfmarker] We need to find out how much that will cost, so I can pass that on to Morgan,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] cuz right now we have almost no money.
[speaker004:] Yeah, OK.
[speaker002:] So [disfmarker] so the cheaper we can do it, the better.
[speaker003:] Well, [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] OK. Well, you also want to get quality. I mean, someone's going to have to pass through [disfmarker] Either a higher level person will have to pass through, or you have to be sure you get good quality to begin with.
[speaker003:] Yeah, absolutely.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm. Right.
[speaker004:] But um, yeah, that's quite [disfmarker] you know [disfmarker] we've [disfmarker] That's been done. I can ask Susan Ervin Tripp what she would recommend on that.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] She's really [disfmarker] She's done [disfmarker] Of the people that I know, she's the one who's supervised the most of those things locally.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] What's her name?
[speaker004:] Uh uh Doctor Susan Ervin Tripp.
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker004:] faculty member in Psychology, recently retired,
[speaker003:] Uh huh. So [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] and very well known in discourse analysis.
[speaker003:] Oh, OK. So, the p I mean, what I'm hearing is that the problem of starting off with some recordings and trying to get word transcripts is kind of [disfmarker] I mean, it's not a [disfmarker] it's not an unfamiliar problem. So that [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Oh, it's very common.
[speaker003:] So that I mean that basically, there are standard solutions and we should just adopt [disfmarker] adopt them
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] and it's going to cost however much it's going to cost, I mean there's [disfmarker] We're [disfmarker] we're probably not going to have a lot of flexibility in bringing down the cost cuz probably the low cost solution's already been established. And so that's just whatever it is.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] That's how we'll do it. See what I mean?
[speaker004:] I think there's always this question of the trade off between uh paying more for the first pass, and then h and then editing less later.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm. Uh huh.
[speaker004:] or paying less the first pass and editing more later. So
[speaker003:] Yeah. Well, whatever they [disfmarker] people who have had to do this [disfmarker] I mean the only thing is I wonder if our requirements are different from um [disfmarker] I mean there's [disfmarker] than [disfmarker] than what's been done in the past than discourse analyzers because maybe we have different requirements in terms of time align you know, how much time [pause] aligned detail we need and uh how much detail in terms of people.
[speaker004:] Oh, But that's a s Mm hmm. OK.
[speaker003:] I don I don't know how much ti I don't think we do need any time aligned detail. I think we just have basically one text file which runs from beginning to end. But.
[speaker002:] Well, if [disfmarker] in terms of transcripts, sure, but in terms of speaker change it might be nice to get the actual time.
[speaker003:] Sure. But not if it costs more.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Well, OK. So what happened with Switchboard was at least, I mean, the output was that they had speaker turns and they um analyzed it in terms of, you know, "this is where this speaker change came in" and of course that gets really difficult when you're talking about [disfmarker] I mean, this is some of the stuff that you were talking about in uh your lunch talk,
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] is that [disfmarker] is that you know, you get backchannels and stuff like that, that that, you know, disrupt the um the segment you know the segmentation.
[speaker003:] Right. Yeah. Right, I mean, the [disfmarker] it's sort of it's [disfmarker] a little [disfmarker] In some sense it's a little bit easier with it [disfmarker] with Switchboard because the telephone is so [disfmarker] actually people are less flexible in what they do. In this kind of situation where we've got nonverbal channels then there's a lot of overlap and there's just that it's not a very good model.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Oh, in terms of data format, what are we going to do about that? I mean, you have the S T M format, where you have you know, every phrase, every utterance is [disfmarker] is a single speaker. I mean, is that the right way to do it? Or [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Well, every utterance is a single speaker, right? It's just that utterances can overlap. I mean,
[speaker002:] Is that the right way to do it?
[speaker003:] I think so.
[speaker002:] OK.
[speaker003:] I think [disfmarker] I think [disfmarker] I mean, I think when I'm [disfmarker] when [disfmarker] Like, So, Eric made a s made a sentence, and that should be like one utterance and then I had a couple of backchannels in there and they should be just overlapping things that [disfmarker] I don't think that we should break Eric's sentences for those. I think [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] OK. So that means that for each utterance, we'll need the time marks,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] the start and end of each utterance.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] So. So [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Well, we'll have to go in from somewhere but we can't necessarily [disfmarker] I mean, we [disfmarker] we may be able to get the transcriber to give them to us if we give them software but we may not in which case we'll have to get them some other way, like with forced alignment later, I mean you know all this can be done.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] So we [disfmarker] maybe we should look at the um [disfmarker] the tools that Mississippi State has.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Because, I d I [disfmarker] I know that they published um i [comment] annotation tools, you know, for their ins
[speaker002:] Well, X Waves have some as well, but they're pretty low level. They're designed for um [disfmarker] for phoneme level
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Phoneme [disfmarker] phoneme [disfmarker] phoneme transcriptions. Yeah.
[speaker004:] I should've [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Although, they actually have a nice tool for [disfmarker] that could be used for speaker change [pause] marking.
[speaker003:] There's a [disfmarker] there are [disfmarker] there's a whole bunch of tools. There's a [disfmarker] some web page, where they have a list of like ten of them or something.
[speaker004:] Yes. Are you speaking about Mississippi State per se?
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker004:] or are y
[speaker003:] No, no, no. There's some [disfmarker] I mean, I just [disfmarker] there are [disfmarker] there are a lot of a lot of [@ @] these things.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Actually, I wanted to mention [disfmarker] There are two projects, which are international, huge projects focused on this kind of thing, actually. One of them's MATE, one of them's EAGLES. and um. And both of them have [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Oh, EAGLES. Yeah, that's the European one. Yeah.
[speaker004:] You know, I saw I know you know about the big book.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I think you got it as a prize or something.
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Got a surprise. And um and they have you know, a lot of [disfmarker] and MATE is a project which is being run out of Denmark and um they have a lot uh [disfmarker] big uh, e you know, they're trying to set up a [disfmarker] a work bench or something or other. And they have a whole bunch of tools that are associated with them.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] So, I mean, there are things that in terms of like the time alignment issue
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] I mean, [pause] you guys are more expert on that, I mean, than I am, but I want to say that I know for a fact, I keep running across these, and those would be my first two choices of looking at. EAGLES and MATE. And I have the documentation downstairs.
[speaker002:] OK.
[speaker004:] I didn't think to bring it.
[speaker002:] Ha Have you looked at it already?
[speaker004:] Oh, I have, but I wasn't interested in that particular issue.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm. a a is this [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] So, we're talking now, once you have words you know, how do you time align it. and that's.
[speaker002:] Oh. So, these are p particularly for time alignment?
[speaker004:] Well, these are uh tools [disfmarker] So, MATE and EAGLES are both within the so called uh Language Engineering branch, and um so they're intended for this kind of a comp compu s computer science application type of approach.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] These are not discourse types of tools.
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] So. They [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Right. [disfmarker] are they just for time alignment or are they for transcription as well?
[speaker004:] Can I be excused, and I'll go down and get my stuff? because um I [disfmarker] I do think [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] You don't [disfmarker] Just take the thing with you.
[speaker002:] Th i It's wireless.
[speaker004:] Are you serious?
[speaker002:] I mean it won't [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Well, I don't know what will happen, but [pause] you may as well.
[speaker004:] I [disfmarker] but [disfmarker] but [disfmarker] what uh [disfmarker] I mean, can you spare like a minute or two of a [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Sure. Sure. Sure.
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker004:] OK. And I go get my books and I'll be right back. I didn't think of bringing this. Do I need this? I need my keys. OK.
[speaker003:] My uh My s
[speaker004:] Oops! I need my card key.
[speaker001:] We can hear all your conversations along the way.
[speaker003:] Yeah, so be just [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I'll try not to say, "So, Oh dear, Boy! That's itching there!"
[speaker002:] Yeah, don't talk to yourself too much.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] So,
[speaker003:] Yeah, that's true. You can leave it behind as well if you want.
[speaker002:] So, For the digits [disfmarker] For the d
[speaker003:] I I assume that these are projects where they do the whole thing, right?
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker003:] So they probably will have tools to address the actual the [disfmarker] the [disfmarker] the transcriber support
[speaker004:] Oops.
[speaker003:] and then automated alignment of what the transcribers give you, which is, you know, exactly the problem we have.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Right, but we can do automated alignment. That's not a problem
[speaker004:] OK
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker001:] I think
[speaker003:] Right. But then again we don't have to do it.
[speaker002:] Well, I'm not sure if we can do automated alignment or not.
[speaker003:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] I mean, e especially in e with speaker change in a meeting like this, where we're overlapping so much,
[speaker001:] I th
[speaker002:] I don't think we're gonna have a [disfmarker] a prayer.
[speaker003:] Oh sure, we are. We've got individual microphones.
[speaker001:] Well, to get [disfmarker] to get the r to get the actual transcript, I think we'll do OK because of [disfmarker] because of the separate channels.
[speaker002:] Oh, that's true. Right. We could just do it through these.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] I hadn't even thought about that. Sure. Um. In terms of data formats, uh what I did for the Digits stuff was just to hand rolled my own. That looks like this form. You know, it's just uh something that's easy to parse in Perl. Um. Probably for the full one, we'll want to do something like S T I mean, some format that our tools already work with.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Well, Yes, although that might [@ @] presumably we'll have one [disfmarker] we'll have several formats that you can interconvert between.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Yeah, presumably.
[speaker003:] When we want to do recognition we'll do STM, but if we're [disfmarker] rather than [disfmarker] rather than designing our own format, we'll just take whatever comes out of the tools that we can find to use, I think.
[speaker002:] Yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah.
[speaker003:] I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I've got no idea what that'll look like.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] but
[speaker001:] Well I know that [disfmarker] I know that um the Mississippi State tools, at least th what the produce does not come out in STM format.
[speaker003:] on our speaker phones. Right.
[speaker001:] They [disfmarker] they basically give um They subdivide into WAVE files and then they give [disfmarker] for each, they give a one [disfmarker] oh, you know, a WAVE file that g indicates where the start and stop times are,
[speaker003:] Mmm hmm.
[speaker001:] and then [disfmarker] um and then give the uh whatever [disfmarker] the sentence information.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] But I mean Ni i i i it [disfmarker] as you said, it was easy to convert back and forth between um that file and STM format, in fact what I did is I took the Mississippi State data, and just made STM files out of it.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm. OK. Good.
[speaker002:] OK. "MATE Mark up Framework". OK?
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] "Specification of uh Coding workbench",
[speaker001:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] That's one o thing, and then, back in here
[speaker002:] Oh, no! It has the word "X M L" in it!
[speaker003:] Oh, good. It must be [disfmarker] It must be fundable then.
[speaker004:] "KCM file formats",
[speaker001:] Oh, looks like [disfmarker] Looks like uh work packages.
[speaker004:] This is the
[speaker001:] Must be [pause] a European [pause] project.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah, it is European. Both of these are Eur European, but they have you know, American contributions, and stuff.
[speaker001:] Oh, so they're using the Alembic Workbench, from Mitre.
[speaker003:] Alembic?
[speaker001:] I guess.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Is that free?
[speaker001:] I don't know.
[speaker004:] Well i but you see they have a whole bunch of things. What they're doing is trying to bring together [disfmarker] and they rate things. I wasn't focused on that so I didn't [disfmarker] Let me show y Have you seen this one, Dan?
[speaker003:] No.
[speaker004:] And I'll try to get one for you, too. Oh, you've got one. What are you looking at here? He's got the Mark up Framework. Oh, yeah. Different coding schemes.
[speaker002:] But it doesn't have enough pictures. So, I think it will require too much reading to understand whether this is anything that we can easily use.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker001:] Oh, this is, I see. They're reviewing, and [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] What they're doing is they're comp comparing all these existing things that have been submitted and And it includes, this one includes the TEI
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker004:] and uh so it's [disfmarker] it's um pretty broad based.
[speaker002:] "TEI" is [disfmarker]?
[speaker004:] These things do seem to be [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Mitre,
[speaker004:] That's the Text Encoding Initiative.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker004:] That's a way of marking mark up. so, you know, but focus on [pause] tools to do this stuff um, I do have a file also in addition to those things, but it'll take me just a second here
[speaker002:] Well, I guess XML makes some amount of sense. I'm not actually familiar with it but it seems to be the sort of thing that this would be good for. But [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Well, yeah, I mean, if you start with a [disfmarker] a basic transcription and a good filter. You can [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] I mean, that's sort of my feeling about it, that you should be [disfmarker] you should be able to [pause] translate between an XML and non XML version cuz most [disfmarker] at least, you know, with a focus on discourse, mostly.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker004:] Oh! I wanted to This [disfmarker] this approach here [disfmarker] This is Uli Heid from Stuttgart [disfmarker] is um a query language for research in phonetics where he wants to build in ToBI tags and [disfmarker] so you can determine um [disfmarker] I wanted to mention this to you. I was going to come by and ask you about this.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Do you know about the Stuttgart um people? Because he's saying if you represent [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] I don't think so.
[speaker004:] He says that uh in German "selbst" is used in two different ways so you have It either means uh "himself" or it means "even" and you can tell the difference in terms of uh intonation.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] So, they have the recordings such that they can locate things [pause] uh with [disfmarker] by searching for part of speech and also intonational [pause] tags.
[speaker003:] Hmm. Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Anyway, [pause] that's [pause] that.
[speaker003:] Because the transcriber's put in intonational tags?
[speaker004:] This is true. This is true. Which of course is another issue.
[speaker003:] Or maybe not.
[speaker004:] Exactly so. and then [disfmarker] I have one more thing I need to find.
[speaker003:] Well.
[speaker001:] But that kind of thing I think we would probably want to extract automatically.
[speaker004:] And then I'll be [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] I mean, e this is, the [disfmarker] this is a conversation that we should have with Liz.
[speaker004:] Yeah. Yes. Oh. [pause] OK.
[speaker001:] Right, I think, because she's going to be [disfmarker] She's going to be the one who's the most concerned about this kind of thing.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker001:] And so she may have some ideas. on [disfmarker] on that particular issue.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Right, but it's [disfmarker] I think for the initial task, just getting the word transcripts and speaker change is highest on my list.
[speaker004:] Yeah. I w I [disfmarker] Yeah. Well that's what Morgan mentioned to me, too.
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker004:] I mean, if [disfmarker] in terms of the t the type [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] But you asked me about uh tools and things and um There's this one
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] um This is called "Transcriber". um "binary distribution for [disfmarker] [pause] for uh Linux and Solaris and SGI and Windows".
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] "Transcriber is a tool for assisting creation of speech corpora."
[speaker003:] Who's it from? Right.
[speaker004:] "It allows to manually segment, label and transcribe speech signals" And,
[speaker003:] Is it the French one?
[speaker004:] uh, let's see, where did I get this? I got this from U Penn.
[speaker003:] U Penn. I think that I've heard of this one.
[speaker004:] But [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] It was the one that Steve Renals mentioned.
[speaker004:] It is possible. It could be French. I can't really tell.
[speaker002:] Well I think that uh [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Can I see that?
[speaker002:] It sounds like you're at least a little familiar with these tools, Jane, so Are y Do you feel comfortable just picking one? Um, because [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I've never used any of them.
[speaker002:] OK.
[speaker004:] And so um I think it would be something that we should work uh together with, in terms of uh seeing how this [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Sure.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Here's another thing I got.
[speaker001:] Oh, so this'd [disfmarker] this w is probably what the L D C uses. I mean they do a lot of transcription at the L D
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker001:] I could ask my contacts at the LDC what [disfmarker] what it is they actually use.
[speaker004:] Oh!
[speaker001:] I mean, I know, I mean I've got [disfmarker] I've got contacts up there,
[speaker004:] Good idea. Great idea.
[speaker002:] Signed language is interesting.
[speaker001:] so.
[speaker004:] Excellent idea.
[speaker001:] So.
[speaker004:] "Automatic annotation of prosody in Verbmobil."
[speaker003:] Can I see?
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] This is the other think that [pause] um [disfmarker] This is part of EAGLES, but um, but here again, it's focusing on representation rather than the tools to do this. Why do I feel like I'm whispering?
[speaker002:] Well, so, how should we proceed on picking a tool? Jane, do you want to [pause] pick a few and we'll download them and try them out? Is that the right thing to do?
[speaker004:] Oh! I think that would be lovely. Now, so, are we talking about the stage of [disfmarker] uh simply the word stage? or are you talking about tools that would allow the time alignment as well?
[speaker002:] No, we're not going to do time alignment.
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker003:] Well [disfmarker] Well, We are going to do time alignment.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker003:] but we'll probably do it ourselves, right? So we're not [disfmarker] we're not concerned about getting [disfmarker] getting [disfmarker] about buying and [disfmarker] or bringing in tools.
[speaker001:] Right. We're very good at time alignments.
[speaker003:] We're not very good
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker003:] but we're proud of ourselves.
[speaker001:] Right. OK.
[speaker003:] We're very proud of our time alignment.
[speaker004:] Absolutely. Yeah, OK.
[speaker002:] Right, and so [disfmarker] but, in terms of what the transcriber needs to do, they're not going to have to do time alignment.
[speaker004:] Good. Oh good, [pause] OK.
[speaker002:] Except maybe for word speaker change,
[speaker004:] Fine.
[speaker002:] but [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Right. I mean, it's not a bad [disfmarker] Oh look! It uses Snack! Um.
[speaker001:] Uses what?
[speaker003:] It uses Snack. That's a [pause] TCL [pause] audio [pause] thing that I [pause] had some involvement with.
[speaker002:] OK, then we'll have to use it.
[speaker004:] Oh, cool. Very cool.
[speaker002:] No [disfmarker] no question.
[speaker003:] Yeah. If I have to use it I'm sure [disfmarker] I'm sure [disfmarker] It's a TCL based thing. I'm sure it's just [pause] wonderful.
[speaker004:] Cool. Cool.
[speaker003:] Yes, T Transcriber was developed with the scripting language TCL TK and C extensions.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] It relies on the Snack sound extension, which allows support for most common audio formats. "
[speaker004:] Cool.
[speaker002:] Boy, the recognition on what you just mumbled is going to be really horrible.
[speaker003:] Yeah. It's the French one.
[speaker004:] Oh, cool!
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] OK. There. There you go.
[speaker003:] I mean, no, I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] I I love it when they
[speaker003:] But I've never downloaded it.
[speaker004:] c
[speaker003:] Someone mentioned it to me. And that's probably why they mentioned it to me, because they thought I would be excited because it's TCL based.
[speaker004:] Did you see this one? The -, Did you see this one here?
[speaker003:] Oh "Deliverable D three point one", Oh yeah.
[speaker002:] OK, So, so, it's called "Transcriber" you said?
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker002:] gacks
[speaker003:] Transcriber
[speaker004:] Whoa!
[speaker001:] So it's very interest I mean, it's interesting that one of the coordinators on that is Mark Liberman from the LDC
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Which means that [disfmarker] I don't know what "coordinator" means in [disfmarker] in terms of that. I mean
[speaker002:] Well, I think [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] What [disfmarker] what is [disfmarker] what is [disfmarker] what is this web page from?
[speaker004:] Well, I apparently, [disfmarker] you know, I roam around on [disfmarker] on topics like this
[speaker001:] Sure.
[speaker004:] And I think I got this off the U Penn and it does in fact cite a French site, so um they have some sort of an arrangement.
[speaker002:] Well, I just wrote down the French site
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker002:] and I will check it and try to download it
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] And uh see what it looks like.
[speaker004:] Good. You you can access it through um [disfmarker] through the, uh, whatever [disfmarker] I can't remember which aspect of U of U Penn I was following,
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] but It must have been the LDC. I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I bet you anything.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] Yeah, they have a [disfmarker] I vaguely recall that they have a pages uh tools page somewhere,
[speaker004:] Mm hmm. OK.
[speaker002:] with like lists and lists and lists of uh various and assorted tools.
[speaker001:] OK.
[speaker004:] Yes. Well there's [disfmarker] They have a special project, as I'm remembering, and um, usually it doesn't deal with much that has to do with discourse,
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] but they uh [disfmarker] they show up in resources.
[speaker002:] So, Um, we'll start with "Transcriber" and if it looks like that's not gonna [pause] do [pause] what we need, [pause] we'll [pause] move on to the Mississippi State and if it doesn't look like that's going to work, we'll look at something else.
[speaker004:] I like that very much, and I and I like the idea of also doing one that's tied in with these larger corp [pause] corpus projects.
[speaker002:] OK.
[speaker004:] So that, you know, the fact that, yeah, it's U Penn and all that.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Mmm.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] Also, I wanted to mention just in passing that uh another thing that we're going to want to start collecting is queries for the meetings. So if over the next couple of days you find yourself wondering what we talked about in the meeting, write down the sort of query you'd like to make.
[speaker004:] Oh, good idea.
[speaker002:] Do you understand what I mean?
[speaker004:] It's like the PDA thing.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] So, imagine that we had Meeting Recorder all done, and you had one, what might you do with it? So, if they occur to you.
[speaker004:] So, like "did the French system use Tcl?"
[speaker002:] Right. That's a good one.
[speaker001:] Actually what I would have come up with was w w "What was the web address of that [vocalsound] thing",
[speaker002:] Send m So, if you could just email me them.
[speaker001:] which we didn't [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Yeah, except we didn't record.
[speaker001:] we didn't record that.
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] It's WWW dot ETCA dot FR.
[speaker003:] That's a fine question.
[speaker004:] if anyone wants to know.
[speaker003:] Wow.
[speaker004:] But you could get it through the U Penn [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] slash [disfmarker] slash [pause] capital CTA [pause] slash, l
[speaker002:] s l slash lots of other stuff, yeah.
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker003:] So this thing, this uh deliverable D three point one of the MATE project is a review of a lot of different tools.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] Yes! Yeah, there you go. Exactly.
[speaker003:] They're actually, they seem to be more the tool the main focus of the tools is you've already got a transcription but you're trying to tag the different turns transi transcriptions with uh discourse roles and things like that.
[speaker001:] I see.
[speaker003:] But I mean a lot them are tools that will also do transcription as well. And I could be wrong.
[speaker004:] Well, my my impression I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I really thought of these resources in the context of you [disfmarker] you asking about time aligning the [disfmarker] you know, What would you need to indicate
[speaker003:] Right.
[speaker004:] and were there tools for that because um I suspect that would be uh pretty time intensive. I also wanted to say, in terms of like disc you know, if there are discussions about intonation contours I do have a certain amount of background in that and I really would be [disfmarker] I'd like to be involved in that.
[speaker001:] Right. No, right, I didn't mean to imply that that we [disfmarker] that [disfmarker] that we shouldn't discuss this now,
[speaker004:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] but I'm [disfmarker] I'm just saying that [disfmarker]
[speaker004:] Oh, not right now, but I mean in the future.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] So at this meeting with Liz I [disfmarker] you know, I mean [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] I do [disfmarker] I'd like to [disfmarker] I like that stuff.
[speaker001:] Sure, sure.
[speaker002:] So, when is she showing up?
[speaker001:] Well, [pause] I mean, they're coming in April.
[speaker002:] April. OK.
[speaker001:] Right. But, um You know, we [disfmarker] we may or may not talk before then on that.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker001:] Um. I [disfmarker] I think we won't probably talk until we have more data, I would think. Right?
[speaker002:] Right, since we have almost none right now, let's
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] We need to move forward from there. But uh, yeah, I guess it's O K. And then, uh there's also just the general question of [pause] will it handle multiple channels or should we just [disfmarker] Dan and I spoke about this briefly, do we want to try to combine channels somehow to make the transcriber's job easier? I was listening to some of it and uh like, if you just listen to the far P Z M the person sitting at this end of the table you can hardly hear at all. on [disfmarker] on the transcript, so there may be [disfmarker] it may be worthwhile to at least try a little bit to combine the channels.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] I [disfmarker] Uh, the stuff I did, I combined pairs of these into stereo pairs, listened to them in stereo.
[speaker002:] Huh.
[speaker003:] And I was very impressed by how well you could hear separate speakers,
[speaker002:] Neat!
[speaker003:] but I haven't [disfmarker] I haven't done very extensive tests.
[speaker002:] Oh, so, that would be interesting as well to do that.
[speaker001:] Oh! Yeah, cuz you'd get you get [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] you get a certain amount of spatial information.
[speaker001:] Right!
[speaker003:] It's not [disfmarker] It's not consistent but it's [disfmarker] Gives you some noise [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Wow.
[speaker002:] Well, I bet if you used this one [disfmarker] the two s most separated P Z Well, maybe, maybe not.
[speaker003:] Yeah, yeah, you'd get [disfmarker] get wide coverage.
[speaker001:] Well, you would [disfmarker] you would [disfmarker] sound like you'd have like in this e big big head.
[speaker002:] Big ears.
[speaker003:] Right. Right. But I mean [disfmarker] But you would [disfmarker] [pause] you would [disfmarker] You know, you'd get good [disfmarker] You'd get good pick up at both ends of the table.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker003:] So.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] OK, do we have anything else to talk about with transcribes?
[speaker003:] Well, what is [disfmarker] what is the goal? again? We're going to end up with some [disfmarker] I mean, ultimately, we're going to end up with transcriptions of these meetings.
[speaker002:] And we'll run a [disfmarker] train a neural net and create a recognizer and do information retrieval
[speaker003:] What, and then [disfmarker] Then [disfmarker] Then we'll be done,
[speaker002:] and [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] huh?
[speaker002:] Well, that's my interest. I mean, other people have different interests,
[speaker003:] Um.
[speaker002:] so. That's what I want.
[speaker003:] Of course, there are different kinds of recos so we're going to actually train a recognizer based on these uh, far field mikes
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker003:] cuz what we [disfmarker] that's the problem we're trying to solve.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker003:] OK. We need a lot of [disfmarker] I mean [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Well, what [disfmarker] the [disfmarker] so, the reason we're doing near field as well is if that doesn't work we wanna back we want some [disfmarker] something that will work.
[speaker003:] Well [disfmarker] and also the near field will allow us to do the time alignment accurately.
[speaker002:] Right. Right.
[speaker003:] Um.
[speaker004:] So these are near [disfmarker] near field?
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] there OK.
[speaker003:] Yeah. Close mikes. I mean I [disfmarker] yeah, I feel like [disfmarker] that [disfmarker] What we're actually going to do with these data is very unclear to me
[speaker002:] Why?
[speaker003:] Well, because I don't think that's a [disfmarker] That's not going to work.
[speaker002:] Y
[speaker003:] Right? OK. We're going to get horrible performance on that.
[speaker002:] The question is, "is it [disfmarker] will it work well enough to do information retrieval?"
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker002:] So, w will the application [disfmarker] the Meeting Recorder application, work?
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] So, Is [disfmarker] Part of the research is um "is fifty percent accuracy enough to do an useful information retrieval?"
[speaker001:] Well, part
[speaker002:] It might be.
[speaker001:] I
[speaker003:] Well, we know the answer to that, but unfortunately, will we get fifty percent p accuracy?
[speaker002:] That's right, Well, but you know we have to try.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] We [disfmarker] we [disfmarker] we could simply not do the project. But I think that's a bad solution.
[speaker001:] W We also need to d do this in terms of SmartKom, I mean, we're collecting this as [disfmarker] to build general English acoustic models. that can be that they can say "OK here's the vocabulary and here's the [disfmarker] you know, here are the pronunciations. And go to it."
[speaker003:] And are they specifically far field mikes?
[speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah.
[speaker002:] Oh, I didn't know that.
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker004:] You know, if [disfmarker] if we were to add [pause] in addition, and I'm offering this, um to the word level, also the [disfmarker] uh, so, stressed words, within utterances
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I do think that that would help the information retrieval.
[speaker003:] Well, I mean, that would be tremendously useful information
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker003:] assuming that we actually pursue it, but um we've got a huge problem, because if we ge if we want train a recognizer we need tens of hours of labelled data.
[speaker004:] Oh, good point.
[speaker003:] And um it's just eh [disfmarker] it's very frightening.
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker004:] Do you think [disfmarker] So, are [disfmarker] are you familiar with this the MARS the MARSEC project?
[speaker003:] uh uh
[speaker004:] Um, So, I'll put this over here, cuz he seems to be the chairman. Um.
[speaker003:] Who, Eric?
[speaker004:] Oh, he's not?
[speaker001:] No.
[speaker002:] He has [disfmarker] he has the open piece of paper.
[speaker004:] Well Uh huh.
[speaker002:] So, open notebook.
[speaker004:] He [disfmarker] Yeah. Well, he can [disfmarker] y y
[speaker001:] Well, Dan's got an open notebook, too.
[speaker004:] discuss [disfmarker] discuss among yourselves.
[speaker003:] Outrageous! Laying out his folders.
[speaker002:] I have one but I've carefully covered it so that it doesn't [disfmarker]
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker004:] So, this is a project that um [comment] has time aligned spoken data which is um [disfmarker] I see it as sort of in between um these fields because a lot of the time when people do rich um intonational and [disfmarker] and stress oriented transcription they don't have the digital record at the same time and the don't have it time aligned.
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] I don't know how large this is, actually. But I just was sort of thinking that um I'm [disfmarker] I'm [disfmarker] and it's British
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] And you know
[speaker002:] Well, I think to some extent with things like the stress and the other prosodic things
[speaker004:] So. Uh huh.
[speaker002:] an and tighter time alignments that we can do I think we should probably do those but only once we have a consumer of that data
[speaker004:] Mm hmm. OK.
[speaker002:] ' You know, so right now we have a consumer of the word transcripts and the speaker change.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] Me. I want those things to work. And so I would like to get that done as quickly as possible.
[speaker004:] Mm hmm.
[speaker002:] And so, [pause] if [disfmarker] if Liz or someone else wants [pause] to do some work on uh prosody and on stress and so on then we can go back to the data and generate the uh the transcripts that we need.
[speaker004:] I'm d Mm hmm. OK. One thing about that is that is that um in the process of [disfmarker] of doing the word level? it really is just as easy to put the stress in at that point.
[speaker002:] Even for an undergrad?
[speaker004:] simply the stressed [disfmarker] Oh, oh, well, see in my pilot stuff, so in the half hour or so that I'm doing. I'd just as soon put it in, because I do think that you'd find that those would be words [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker004:] I mean [disfmarker] You know of course, Rosaria's pursuing this [disfmarker] this area
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] but I really do think from everything that I've run across that um you [disfmarker] you should get gain in terms of the uh uh what you were saying, the information retrieval aspects from that.
[speaker002:] Right.
[speaker004:] And I wouldn't be too surprised [disfmarker] I mean, it's [disfmarker] it's like uh I mean I don't know how [disfmarker] how reliable Lea is, but [pause] if [pause] this idea of islands of [disfmarker] of um for di whatever they are. r r islands of reliability or whatever it is.
[speaker002:] Accuracy?
[speaker004:] The stressed w stressed words.
[speaker002:] Certainty, islands of certainty.
[speaker004:] Is that it? OK.
[speaker002:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I mean
[speaker001:] Are you certain?
[speaker003:] Lea?
[speaker002:] No.
[speaker004:] The claim that uh words that get stressed are easier to recognize.
[speaker003:] I see.
[speaker004:] So, I mean, I [disfmarker] I think it c there's be sort of a benefit with very minimal input.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Cuz when you listen to a sentence, you can tell [disfmarker] If it's contrastive stress you say "Oh! that word was stressed" and why the heck not put it in at the word level? So [disfmarker] so, I mean, the part that I'm doing, I'm really happy to supply that without any [disfmarker] cuz it [disfmarker] it's just [disfmarker] it's there.
[speaker002:] Mm hmm.
[speaker003:] OK. If you think it won't slow you down at all.
[speaker004:] It's not [disfmarker] it doesn't take any thinking.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] I'm not going to talk about, you know uh, trying grade them in any kind of careful way, but just indicate [disfmarker] if th if there's a prominent word, to indicate it.
[speaker002:] Sure.
[speaker003:] Yeah, that's great.
[speaker002:] All caps.
[speaker003:] No, well, presumably there's a an annotation standard for prefix [pause] characters or something like that.
[speaker004:] Whatever. Whatever. People [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] That's what they're using here.
[speaker004:] Yeah, people do different [disfmarker] different ways,
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker004:] a and so just as long as it's systematic in my view, you can always filter it into some other format.
[speaker003:] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
[speaker002:] Anything else?
[speaker003:] Well, so, um What is the plan? We're gonna [disfmarker] I mean, How many [disfmarker] How many [disfmarker] How many meetings?
[speaker002:] I'm gonna go download "Transcriber" and Jane and I will look at it
[speaker003:] What about r our recording schedule?
[speaker002:] Oh
[speaker003:] How many meetings are we going to record? Um. Which ones are we going to transcribe? Um. Do we [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] Well I think the answer is we need to record as many as we can.
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker002:] Right? I don't see any reason not to try to record a meeting or two a week.
[speaker003:] Absolutely.
[speaker002:] Um. I mean, more if we can. And uh so I wanna [disfmarker] um I wanna start by in the next couple weeks just doing the Speech group until we get to the point where we're fairly comfortable with the hardware and the software and everything works.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] and then I think I'll [disfmarker] also uh a Jerry volunteered to have his group do a few. So, I'll uh try to get those as well.
[speaker004:] How many of these do you have,
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker004:] these near mikes?
[speaker003:] Five.
[speaker002:] We have five of the wireless.
[speaker004:] Oh, OK. OK.
[speaker002:] And then we were [disfmarker] going to be getting a bunch of wired ones as well. I mean notice that n
[speaker003:] Well.
[speaker002:] your [disfmarker] you [disfmarker] you stood up and walked around. None of the rest of us have. And so we could have wired mikes and I wouldn't be a big deal.
[speaker004:] Oh. Oh, I see.
[speaker002:] for bigger meetings.
[speaker004:] OK. I see.
[speaker002:] So.
[speaker004:] Interesting. Very interesting. Wow, I'm just really impressed by this, um, yeah.
[speaker002:] It really makes you feel like you're doing real work when you get all this hardware.
[speaker004:] Well, this is, I mean, compared to the way people normally do, like, discourse stuff? you know, it's like you got your [disfmarker] I mean they've gotten away from w reel to reel tapes,
[speaker003:] Uh huh.
[speaker004:] but [disfmarker] and they do have DAT recorders, I mean you do have [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Mm hmm.
[speaker004:] but I mean this is just wonderful, the uh added level of yeah, compactness in the channels.
[speaker003:] If we can do anything with it, yeah.
[speaker002:] Yep.
[speaker004:] I do find myself whispering. I mean, I suspect [disfmarker] My normal s.
[speaker002:] Why?
[speaker004:] I don't know why.
[speaker002:] I had noticed that you were talking quietly,
[speaker004:] It's bizarre.
[speaker002:] and I was actually going to ask you.
[speaker004:] yeah, this is not really my normal [disfmarker] pattern.
[speaker002:] I was going to ask you to speak up. But I didn't want you to feel self conscious.
[speaker004:] I think the problem is that I'm afraid that I'm talking into someone's ear.
[speaker002:] Oh.
[speaker004:] I really do. So it's [disfmarker] so it's like [disfmarker] And I realize now [comment] that you have volume uh control. But uh Yeah.
[speaker003:] I don't feel like you're speaking unnaturally quietly.
[speaker004:] Oh good.
[speaker003:] I mean [disfmarker] [pause] I feel like it's all quite normal.
[speaker004:] OK. Good.
[speaker001:] Well, I hear what you're saying.
[speaker004:] I'm glad.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker004:] Good.
[speaker003:] Eric's really got it easy cuz he's got the lapel mike, which is so unobtrusive.
[speaker004:] That's great.
[speaker001:] I asked if somebody else wanted the lapel mike. Somebody else can take it next time.
[speaker002:] I've been trying to rotate it through. So, Dan will get it next time.
[speaker004:] Are these more expensive or less expensive than this kind?
[speaker003:] They're much more expensive.
[speaker004:] OK.
[speaker003:] I [disfmarker] I [disfmarker] Which I don't understand but there it is.
[speaker004:] It would be like the television. effect or something, maybe.
[speaker003:] Right, it's because they make people feel like television stars.
[speaker002:] Do you feel like a television star?
[speaker003:] So you can charge more for it.
[speaker004:] That's probably why I thought he was the chairman.
[speaker003:] Yeah, that's it. That must be it.
[speaker002:] That [disfmarker] that makes sense,
[speaker001:] That's it!
[speaker002:] right? Cuz he's not heavily encumbered with this [disfmarker]
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker001:] Right.
[speaker002:] N You should have run it under your sweater, though.
[speaker001:] Right. Yes.
[speaker003:] OK. Well, I don't mind. Oh, we should read some more numbers, then. Are we [disfmarker] are we [disfmarker] are we there?
[speaker004:] Oh good.
[speaker001:] Yeah.
[speaker003:] Are we at that point?
[speaker002:] I think we're there.
[speaker004:] Good.
[speaker001:] How much space do we have left?
[speaker004:] Good.
[speaker003:] More space than you can [disfmarker]
[speaker002:] uh
[speaker003:] We've got two hours of space now.
[speaker002:] He [disfmarker] he [disfmarker] he changed the downsampling.
[speaker001:] Oh really.
[speaker003:] Yeah.
[speaker002:] OK, so this is Adam, on uh
[speaker001:] Oh!
[speaker002:] mike number two, wireless headset
[speaker003:] In theory. Assuming it's recording anything.
[speaker001:] OK, this is Eric [pause] on microphone number one, uh channel zero
[speaker004:] Here, here! OK, this is Jane. OK.
[speaker002:] OK?
[speaker003:] OK.
[speaker002:] Thanks very much. Just control C, Dan?
[speaker003:] Yep.
[speaker004:] Alrighty.