Both extremes, though implicit in standard Buddhist formulations, render Buddhism itself incoherent, a problem only solved, the Vātsīputrīyas argue, if one admits the fictional pudgala implicit in standard Buddhist doctrine.With this system, Pudgalavādins held that they could explain karmic moral retribution and personal identity by positing an ineffable ("avaktavya") dharma that avoids falling into the extremes of annihilation ("ucceda") and eternity ("sasvata").