text: Military Law - Page 18 - Top Law Schools
  Post by J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:50 am
  I must have misread. Your stafford and gradplus loans do qualify though correct?
  Post by naptime10 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:16 am
  i grew up a jag brat. unless they changed promotion zones you get picked up for O3 in about 3 years. the pay depends on how long you are an O3. it usually takes around 4 years if i remember correctly to attain the rank of O3--at least in the army. this, however, is subject to change depending on whether you get picked up "below the zone" for early promotion. where did you get your information from?
  Post by J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:22 am
  This information is easily accessible on all of the JAG websites for the different services. It has changed drastically since you were younger. You commission as an O-2, and very quickly get promoted to O-3, they count your 3 years in law school as time in service for promotion purposes only.
  Post by Patrick Bateman » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:37 am
  Concur with J-Rod.
  Promotion to 0-3 is automatic at the 6 month mark. I know this because I just pinned on Captain on 10 July, exactly 6 months after I took my Oath as a 1st Lt.
  Even in regular line promotion from 0-2 to 0-3, I don't think there is Below the Zone, as 0-3 is generally automatic barring a huge blemish (Art 15 for DUI, for example) on the officer's record. It's similar to how the promotions for AF enlisted are automatic from E-1 through E-4.
  Post by naptime10 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:58 am
  oh, wow that is interesting. it makes the military not look too bad of a deal for a job out of law school--they pay off your loans as well right? the only thing is you are kind of behind the curve coming out of the military to practice law in the civilian sector right? unless you practice military related law as a civilian?
  Post by nickc321 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:24 am
  The AF is already swamped with highly qualified applicants; I can't imagine them needing to offer any other incentives, but I am keeping my fingers crossed that they follow suit. I had not even entertained the idea of going Army until they announced the new loan repayment plan. I am now planning to apply for the next Army board; all I need is my in person interview as all the other documents are set and ready to go.
  Post by Patrick Bateman » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:22 pm
  It might do you some good to read through all the previous posts on this thread. A lot of these issues have been already covered in detail.
  Army is offering greater incentives at the moment but there is no "loan payback" program with any service. Beyond the incentives, there are also LRAP programs from law schools that come into play with JAG service. Also consider the CCRA.
  To say JAGs are beyond the curve in the civilian sector is incorrect. Army and USAF JAGs practice in civil law areas in addition to all the military justice work. JAG will do little for someone looking to lateral into corporate transactional work. Beyond that, there are plenty of lateral oppurtunities, both in criminal and civil work, if a JAG decides to punch out and go civilian. Many JAGs stay working as Feds after the leave military service but the litigation skills honed in uniform provide quite a lot of opportunity in the private sector.
  Post by Veritas » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:17 pm
  Anyone have insight into what life on a Ship would be like for a JAG?
  What types of daily tasks would they be working on and what types of non-legal/JAG related tasks do they administer to JAGs?
  Post by 3milesup » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:27 pm
  J-Rod: I am very interested in what you learned. I just finished my own statement (which I think is pretty good after several rounds of editing, if I do say so myself!).
  Please post the advice when you can.
  Post by J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:30 pm
  While it says explain your interest and motivation for serving at the top of the essay box, I was told not to just talk about your motivation to serve, desire to serve country, etc. It is important to mention that, but don't make it the focus of your essay, as they already assume that you possess those qualities since you are applying. Tell them about yourself, work in a couple of accomplishments, perhaps how certain experiences have prepared you to serve, etc. Don't necessarily iterate specific opportunities that really attracted you to the corps as they assume everyone is joining for many of those reasons, but you can certainly mention your excitement for the opportunities provided. Perhaps mention classes you plan on taking, or law school activities you plan on getting involved in(I'm doing this because I just finished my 1L, so seeing the prescribed list of courses on my transcript doesn't say much)
  Lucky for me, both the LCDR and CDR here are going to meet with me to go over the bio of the CAPT I'm interviewing with, and a good strategy for the interview . . . and I'm interning with the Army, but these Navy folks are more than willing to help me out.
  So if nothing else, this is again just a plug for the 1L internship with any service.
  Last edited by J-Rod on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  Post by Foozle » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:33 pm
  Over the last few weeks, I've read through this entire thread.
  I just wanted to say that, as a 0L who has toyed around with the idea of doing JAG for the last few months, I've found it very useful.
  Post by Veritas » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:42 pm
  Lucky for my, both the LCDR and CDR here are going to meet with me to go over the bio of the CAPT I'm interviewing with, and a good strategy for the interview . . . and I'm interning with the Army, but these Navy folks are more than willing to help me out.
  Thanks, J-rod! Useful information. So it seems that the focus should be more on what you have to offer the JAG corps rather than why the JAG corp?
  Post by J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:47 pm
  Yes, I would say 75/25 what/why . . . they already know about the desire to serve, what the corps is like, etc. They want to know about you, why they should offer you a commission
  Post by Veritas » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:48 pm
  Are you doing the Army internship right now? If, so, how's it going?
  Post by J-Rod » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:07 pm
  veritas85 wrote: Cool, thanks.
  I am doing it right now, and it's going very well. I'm on here today because it's a slow day at the office, several people are PCS'ing so we had an award ceremony, etc.
  I've worked on some cool projects, met a lot of great people, traveled to DC, shortly I'm headed to Guantanamo Bay, and possibly Ft. Campbell as well, so it will be an exciting last two weeks of the summer
  This internship has defintely increased my desire to serve
  Post by ArkansasFan » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:49 pm
  That's kind of why I was making an illustration outside of JAG. Granted, being a 30 year old 0-1 isn't really any better.
  Post by Rotor » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:43 am
  veritas85 wrote: Anyone have insight into what life on a Ship would be like for a JAG?
  There are actually very few sea-going billets for JAGs (at least at junior levels). Each of the aircraft carriers has a Lieutenant Commander/Commander JAG as their SJA and most (if not all) have transitioned their legal/discipline officer to JAGs too (rather than the navy equivalent of a paralegal). Big deck amphibs will also have a LT or LCDR, but probably only one officer instead of two, so that may be 30-40 people max-- meaning only 10-15 openings each year. If you end up in a shipboard billet, much of what you do will depend on your Captain. My last "Judge" got involved with the training team and led one of the damage control repair lockers, fighting fires etc. Others I've seen have been so busy administering the legal system on the ship, they just stayed in their office and apart from the room moving under you, it would probably be similar to whatever office job you're used to. Basically, it's what you want to make of it.
  As you get more senior, you may be assigned to an admiral's staff for your expertise in laws of war, etc., and reviewing certain decisions made by subordinate commanders in enforcing the UCMJ to ensure compliance with the manual. But then, you won't have any shipboard duties since the admiral will keep you plenty busy!
  If you have specific questions about life in the navy, JAG or not, let me know. Since I'm retiring from the navy and becoming a 1L in 3 weeks, I can only give you what I know about JAG life from the outside looking in and from friends. But I can certainly answer whatever big-Navy questions you have! (But the movers come in 3 days, so I may not get to it right away!)
  Post by 3milesup » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:37 pm
  What do you think, based on your experience: If I am accepted into Navy JAG, what are the chances that I could end up in Afghanistan on my first tour? I actually want to go. Thx.
  Post by 3milesup » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:40 pm
  Post by brownshoe » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:21 pm
  Right now, the way I understand it is if you want to go, you'll go. They are filling almost all the IA (individual augmentee) billets with volunteers. A lot of people actually want to go, so the spots do fill pretty quickly.
  Caveat - this info is about 1 year old, so I don't know how it is changing with different personnel requirements for Iraq/Afghan now.
  Post by J-Rod » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:29 pm
  Right now, pretty much anyone who wants a deployment can get one. Navy JAG doesn't make anyone deploy who doesn't want to, but they're definitely plenty available right now
  Post by biglaw930 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:02 pm
  Wow, what a great thread. I've read through this entire thread and feel like I know all that there is about the various Jag programs except for one HUGE question about my history. I just graduated undergrad at age 26 (a bit on the old side). To my credit I am married with two kids and one on the way, and I have supported my family the past three years running a very successful personal training business (and I love crossfit BTW!). I am starting law school in about three weeks at a T3 that I chose because they offered me a full ride scholarship. I have decided that JAG is what I want to do BUT, there is a huge problem...my record. When I was 18, my first g/f broke up with me and I acted very immaturely. I received two MIP's in 28 days...then a year later I got a DUI, which the judge supposedly knocked down to an impaired driving...then, as a sophmore in college, I got another DUI, that stayed as a DUI on my record...So, my latest DUI will be 5 years old around the time that I apply. My first DUI will be 8 years old around the time that I apply and my MIP's will be 9 years old. Obviously, I have matured greatly since then, especially since I have children now. I feel terribly that I was once so ignorant, and I pray to god that no idiot like I was then ever runs a stop sign and hits my children while under the influence. I definitely understand the seriousness of my offenses, and I am not at all trying to down play them. I just don't want them to prevent me from following my dreams of becoming a JAG in the military. What do you guys think, is my fate sealed? Is there any hope? If so, how slim and what do I need to do?
  Post by biglaw930 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:43 pm
  Post by Rotor » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:08 pm
  biglaw930 wrote: bump
  Rather than quote your long post, I'm quoting your bump
  I don't know if anyone here would no for certain. But it is what it is, and the only thing you can do is show contrition. Trying to hide it or lying about it WILL seal your fate, so be open and completely honest to give yourself a shot.
  Post by Rotor » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:15 pm
  Thought I'd post here as the most appropriate of the military related threads:
  Had my retirement ceremony on Friday and it was great. Surreal at times, sad at others, but all in all just a GREAT day. For those staying for the long haul, don't just skulk off without the pomp. You owe it to your family & colleagues/subordinates, but if my case is indicative, it's a fabulous day for you too.
  With my uniforms going into storage and the movers coming tomorrow, I can now get a bit excited for school to start in 3 weeks!