text: phpBB • How can phpBB be free? - Page 4
  How can phpBB be free?
  Post by webmacster87 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:41 am
  PCGUY112887 wrote: With the old development team, there was never anything like this. Advertisement on phpBB.com was very minimal. Now advertisement is a much larger portion of business here. I believe everyone *used* to make no money, but now there is a large cashflow going somewhere, and again it's not for hosting. Yes even if the hardware is owned, that is an initial cost with minimal upkeep costs.
  You may also notice that in the "old" days, there were not things like code audits taking place or big "vasion" conferences, so while the teams may be taking in more money (according to you, quite frankly there is really no direct evidence that they are, only some anecdotal evidence that could be assumed), they are doing a lot more to spend it.
  Add on to that the fact that the basic costs of maintaining a website with as many hits as phpBB.com is quite significant. Even though phpBB is hosted by OSUOSL, it still has its own physical server, and that sucker requires maintenance. And there will be other incidental expenses along the way that may come up, like the domain name, or other possible things that may involve meager costs to keep the lights on around here. And again, I'm just speculating, I really have no idea what kinds of costs the teams could be incurring around here, and I'm a former team member! A lot of things around here have changed since I left the teams. But I will say that they're certainly putting on lots more costly group ventures than they have before, so I'd say that it'd be hard for you to back up your claims with much evidence.
  Just because the Illinois governor is corrupt doesn't mean that everyone accepting contributions is corrupt.
  Post by Techie-Micheal » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:14 am
  PCGUY112887 wrote: also ads make a VAST amount of money, especially on a website such as this. It's how most websites stay online, if advertising made little money then we would have few large websites.
  How do you know how much money this site makes? Have you ever seen the income sheets? I think the phpBB Teams are not the ones who are lying ... Make sure you can back up your statements with fact. The phpBB Team has always stated that money is made and that it covers costs such as the code audit, Londonvasion, hardware costs, etc.
  It's fairly simple actually, take the numbers from this page...
  http://www.phpbb.com/about/advertise/
  Apply average click/page view numbers to even a medium sized website (where as the phpBB website would be considered a very large website). The advertisement page even mentions payments in the thousands of dollars, and how to pay over $10,000.
  If you have any experience in advertisement, you can easily figure out the magnitude phpBB.com can generate.
  There you go again with assuming with no actual evidence. Again, you don't have access to the financial records. You have no clue what the income is, and your continuing to spout lies is insulting to the work that current and former team members has done. Don't forget, there are still costs, like, oh, replacing hard drives? phpBB.com has had to replace hard drives before.
  With the old development team, there was never anything like this. Advertisement on phpBB.com was very minimal. Now advertisement is a much larger portion of business here. I believe everyone *used* to make no money, but now there is a large cashflow going somewhere, and again it's not for hosting. Yes even if the hardware is owned, that is an initial cost with minimal upkeep costs.
  Are you purposefully ignoring what I and others say? I find that to be a common theme when people wish to discuss this whole advertising thing. Again, code audits, server maintenance, site maintenance (domain name), Londonvasion, and so on cost money. Money from the advertisements. Money that goes back to you, the user. That's hard evidence, something you have yet to show for your side of the argument.
  Post by dellsystem » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:41 pm
  PCGUY112887 wrote: Last time I brought up this topic, I was quickly struck down after posting simple logic behind the money matters at phpBB. It really bugs me when people are lied to saying no one is making any money.
  phpBB runs ads, and they also get paid to have sponsored hosts and such. It has to be good income too, as the phpBB website has LOTS of visitors.
  Hosting for the phpBB website is donated.
  That means there is profit going somewhere! Lots of it!
  It's simple business but why lie about it? The phpBB team paid to have the entire source of phpBB 3 checked by a third party company before release. Do you think the developers paid that out of pocket? To code audit ALL of phpBB3? No way.
  Can we please stop bringing up how much money phpBB.com makes in every cost-related topic? This topic is about why those who help out here do what they do. I can understand why it might be related -- "Volunteers here make money, therefore that is their incentive to help" -- but the fact is, it isn't related, as many have said. I for one have not been paid, and even if all the teams were -- as many have said before -- the money this site makes would not be nearly enough to compensate for the time spent here.
  In essence, please stop bringing it up. Again, no one is saying that phpBB.com is not making money. All that's being said is that the volunteers here are not paid, except for perhaps small "bonuses" every so often. There is no lie being told to the community. If what's worrying you is the fact that phpBB.com appears to make so much money and yet volunteers here are not paid, don't worry about it If it's a problem for any team members they can always express their opinions to the TLs, so it's really not necessary for you to bring it up.
  Post by Highway of Life » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:40 am
  PCGUY112887 wrote: That means there is profit going somewhere! Lots of it!
  And really, what difference would it make if there was financial profit?? Who cares? why should you care?
  However, the simple truth of the matter is that there is not, and your "accusations" have gone well beyond simple discussion and they are now downright offensive. You are attempting to spread rumours that are simply lies.
  PCGUY112887 wrote: It's simple business but why lie about it? The phpBB team paid to have the entire source of phpBB 3 checked by a third party company before release. Do you think the developers paid that out of pocket? To code audit ALL of phpBB3? No way.
  "No way" is correct. They paid it out of the money received from advertisements. Same with Londonvasion (the event, hotel, flights, etc), server costs, and others... after all of that, regardless of if there is any actual profit, phpBB still does not give that profit to anyone. If any developer of phpBB made money from phpBB, we would see much faster development and releases. This alone tells you that they do not make money, neither does anybody else on the phpBB Teams.
  Last edited by Highway of Life on Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
  Post by LukiB » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:13 am
  Am I the only one that doesn't really care where the money goes? It's their site, their advertisement. It's all not mine. I get a free forumsoftware, one that is good for that matter. I would start to complain if they asked money for a licence, since I think you can ask at that point how much money they make from advertising. But even if they make more money than some guy that created a company in Redmond, why should I care, why should we care? I'm not a teammember, so I see no reason why someone should be enlightened with the administration of the money of this site.
  Post by stickerboy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:32 pm
  Just to add, I get no money from the work I do for phpBB. My payment the ability to be part of the team and the community. As far as I know, none of the team members are paid for their work here either. To be honest, if the devs were getting some sort of payment, I wouldn't be the least bit bothered by it
  phpBB has been, is and always will be free. Can't be just leave it at that
  Post by RMcGirr83 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:42 pm
  PCGUY112887 wrote: If you have any experience in advertisement, you can easily figure out the magnitude phpBB.com can generate.
  What business is it of yours or mine?
  I don't have any experience in advertisement, I do, however, have quite a bit in accounting. So sure I'll assume with you that CPM's and PPC's are generated and, ergo, yes the site generates income. But I have no idea of the expenses (and for those that got reimbursed for travel to Londonvasion, I sincerely hope, if you live in the US, you are claiming that as income. Not receiving a 1099 is not an excuse for not claiming the income...saying that, I wouldn't claim it either ) are greater than or less than that income. To state that there is some huge profit being made is short sighted at best if you have no factual data (vis a vis an "Income Statement"). FWIW, IIRC, the security audit ran ~$25,000 and that's an awful lot of click pays.
  Even if there was factual data that showed that phpBB.com made a profit.
  Anyone can make a profit off of anything (it's called "capitalism"), so what and what right was given to you for you to have to know if there is a profit or not. phpBB.com is not, IIRC, a public corporation (in the US) nor a LTD (in the British Isles) so they are not required to file anything with anybody that can be publicly accessible as it relates to phpBB.com.
  Just like you aren't required to file anything with anybody off the $$$ you may make off of your site.
  Saying that though, I am all for a "top non-team member poster of the month" award.
  PS I have never clicked on any advertisement so you could term me a "loss leader".
  PPS Kenny, XMas is over
  Post by 3Di » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:46 pm
  RMcGirr83 wrote: I am all for a "top non-team member poster of the month" award
  Interesting.. Is there into the DB something that relates?
  Post by RMcGirr83 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:56 pm
  Nah, that was sarcasm...and apparently not very good sarcasm at that.
  Post by stickerboy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:58 pm
  RMcGirr83 wrote: PPS Kenny, XMas is over
  Hah, I've been saying the same thing all day . Fixed
  Post by Highway of Life » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:11 pm
  Not quite, today is the twelfth day of Christmas.
  cherokee red wrote: To be honest, if the devs were getting some sort of payment, I wouldn't be the least bit bothered by it
  Indeed, I think it would be great if they actually did get paid somehow.
  Post by Erik Frèrejean » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:19 pm
  PCGUY112887 wrote: I know the support/style team members are not paid, however developers also state that they are not paid (look other places not this thread). I am sure the support/style team members would be upset if they found out they really were being paid.
  How sure are you about this statement? Even if the devs where being payed I wouldn't care as they would deserve it (only look at the work they already put into 3.2). Heck I would even donate if the group would accept donations.