text: Commercial setup LED configuration | Page 2 | Grasscity Forums
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  Commercial setup LED configuration
  Discussion in 'Grow Room Design/Setup' started by FOL, Nov 6, 2018.
  #21 Slow Old Guy, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:35 AM
  Why wouldn't it be centered? 10" in from each side of the tent is about center of a 2x2
  they would be center in a 2x2, but not when used with multiple units,
  they would be closer to the side and further away from each other,
  because of the light over lap, if spread equally u get a hot spot between the lights, like mutiple 1000w hps.
  #22 FOL, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:36 AM
  Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018 at 1:44 AM
  okay, u have a small commercial grow area,
  how are you going to build your own fixtures for a 'commercial grow'.?
  does OK not inspect grows.?
  most states mandate inspections and sprinkler systems where workers will be present for a certain amount of time, no UL listing on light fixtures wouldn't shut you down......?????
  OK laws/regs are very liberal at the moment, no regulations on lighting or the facility specifics. They could of course one day change that.
  Nope, for a 4x4, with four 96s, somewhere around 18" is the sweetspot for ~160 to 240w (sink rated 200w max, passive). Higher reduces spread eveness, lower creates an intolerable hotspot...
  You want multiple levels of optimal ppfd, you have to use sufficient numbers of 120s/288s and add a qb35 for every two 288s.
  I have seen the threads with your tests, and really appreciate you taking the time to do that.
  This makes me lean towards my original plan, 6 288s and 2 320W drivers in each 4x4, with supplements added later as desired..
  Since I have the 96s coming I may build a full row to run 4 96s and 2 320w drivers in each 4x4 as a direct comparison to the same wattage of 288s..
  #23 Or_Gro, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:37 AM
  Close enuff for grenades doesn't work for getting even intensity spread under 96.
  12" away from each edge would be centered in a 2x2 space, but that doesn't give you evenest spread, for exactly the reason you mentioned earlier - you need to get crosslighting on two sides go get best spread.
  This means that you need 2-3" offset toward 2 sides away from other lights. With 96's intense small footprint, 2-3" makes a big difference.
  #24 Soil2Coco, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:37 AM
  But you wouldn't get the overlap if centered. You would have 20" between lights, and 10" from the sides. That's pretty much how I have mine mounted, and it's working great. Maybe just a hair off center
  #25 Or_Gro, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:44 AM
  18" is the sweet spot which actually isn't as much as I would think. Isn't that about the same for the 288s?
  Depends on how many, how big coverage area is, wattage.
  In my 4x4 i have eight 288s with upto 120w per 288; with these i can get even 1000 ppfd at any ht 18-48".
  Four 96s in same space can get pretty close to even 1000 ppfd, BUT ONLY AT around 18" for 160-240w.
  #26 Slow Old Guy, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:45 AM
  But you wouldn't get the overlap if centered. You would have 20" between lights, and 10" from the sides.
  look at your pic, u can see the more intense light under the 96's and in the center wear the light overlaps.!
  it is a new finding in commercial lighting that requires some math and light censors to get fixtures positioned properly.
  we used to not see this as much, but with DE 1000w and COB and QB it is a measurable amount now.!!
  #27 Slow Old Guy, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:48 AM
  Maybe just a hair off center
  visually looks like your 96's r pointed just slightly to the front......?????
  next grow try spreading them out, just 2-4 inches further and see if the edges get bigger/harder buds.....?????
  #28 Soil2Coco, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:49 AM
  I used a meter. It's pretty even. It's not exactly center but pretty close. A little bleed in the center but not much. I would imagine you could center the inside corner of each heat sink then and be about perfect
  #29 Soil2Coco, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:53 AM
  My space isn't a 2x4 either. It's actually only 42" x 24". So that's part of the issue
  #30 Or_Gro, Nov 9, 2018 at 1:59 AM
  Now i'm all confused by your initial statement and this one.
  For best spread in 2x2 footprint need at least 2 lights: each one 9" from wall+5" for light+10" from center between other light = 24"=2', same dimensions in other direction for each 2x2 space.
  For clearer understanding just go to the tables i posted on 96 thread.
  #31 Slow Old Guy, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:00 AM
  I used a meter.
  this used to not be an issue, we had a single HID or multiple Floro which don't produce enough light to blead,
  now, with commercial growers using multiple 1000w HPS bulbs and home growers using QB and COB we r seeing the benefits of 'shared lighting'.!
  remember to test the light at canopy height and half way down to get the best spread.!!
  #32 Soil2Coco, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:06 AM
  I did. Was the first one to fire up a two qb96elite set. Found 18" height, 10" from wall, and about 20" between lights, on center to be ideal. I did this by eye and then verified with meter. At least in my shortened space. Or_Gro has a much more expensive meter and pretty much confirmed these measurements, but he has an actual 4x4 space.
  #33 Or_Gro, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:08 AM
  Problem with your suggestion (believe me i checked earlier)is that a single 96 does not have an exactly square footprint. In my diagrams i show orientation (power socket parallel to left right axis). You then have impact of crosslighting and wall reflection.
  If you start at center of 4x4 grid (4x96 @18", 200 or 240w) and follow to front-back and do same left-right, you can make out differences.
  #34 Soil2Coco, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:11 AM
  I was talking about setting up 4 lights in a 4x4, with each one essentially covering a 2x2, by centering over the 2x2 area. It's probably not exactly center since the boards are rectangular, but gives a place to start by using common sense. (1' from the Wall with 2' between lights) The meter will tell you if you need to slide a couple inches either way.
  #35 Slow Old Guy, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:22 AM
  The meter will tell you if you need to slide a couple inches either way.
  this is where (most) commercial growers need to know the position of each fixture,
  with inspections the movement of a fixture can be very limited, unlike our set ups, we can just hang a bar and move it over, commercial applications have hard wired fixtures in conduit, moving 4" to the left just became $800 per fixture, kinda important to get it right the 1st time.! LOL
  I have studied commercial growing the past 6 months, if it ever becomes legal here i will do what i love to do and grow high grade cannabis for a living.!!
  I actually have an innovative idea, which you may see in the future.!!
  #36 Slow Old Guy, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:25 AM
  then have impact of crosslighting and wall reflection.
  how much does wall reflection actually help.?
  is there a measurable difference between no wall, mylar wall, and 'shared light'.?
  #37 Or_Gro, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:36 AM
  Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 3:27 AM
  Some states essentially give out monopolies by limiting number of licenses by geography. In these cases you might make money. But in states like oregon where number of licenses exceed demand per geography, growing is a way to go bankrupt...especially when frequent customers realize they can easily grow better reef at home...for way less $s....
  imo, of course... but i believe closing shops and dropping prices support my theory..
  #38 FOL, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:37 AM
  Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 2:43 AM
  This is why I am wiring all the lighting with 240v duplex outlets, the benefits of 240v with the convenience of 110v.
  I always thought Oklahoma would be dead last to legalize it, you must live somewhere deep south or midwest. Hell, tattoos were illegal here till 2005..... let that sink in.
  #39 FOL, Nov 9, 2018 at 2:41 AM
  Some states essentially give out monopolies by limiting number of licenses by geography. In these cases you can make money. But in states like oregon where number of licenses exceed demand per geography, griwing is a way to go bankrupt...especially when frequent customers realize they can easily grow better reff at home..
  .imo, of course... but i believe closing shops and dropping prices support my theory..
  The way I see it, it's just not a get rich scheme anymore, it is a legitimate business that relies on lean practices, efficiency, and adaptability to stay profitable. The days of making money hand over fist just because you have plants are over, we are in the dawn of a new era where business will begin to compete at large scale across borders. That said, it will always be way more lucrative than any any other of the commodity crops out there.