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Related questions. There is some alternate notation that is used on occasion to denote the inverse trig functions. Derivatives of the Inverse Trigonometric Functions. Derivatives of Inverse Trigonometric Functions using the First Principle. Again, we have a restriction on $$y$$, but notice that we can’t let $$y$$ be either of the two endpoints in the restriction above since tangent isn’t even defined at those two points. Home / Calculus I / Derivatives / Derivatives of Inverse Trig Functions. You can easily find the derivatives of inverse trig functions using the inverse function rule, but memorizing them is the best idea. We know that trig functions are especially applicable to the right angle triangle. Graphs for inverse trigonometric functions. From a unit circle we can see that $$y = \frac{\pi }{4}$$. Free tutorial and lessons. Mobile Notice. These functions are used to obtain angle for a given trigonometric value. To do this we’ll need the graph of the inverse tangent function. Now, use the second part of the definition of the inverse sine function. . For every pair of such functions, the derivatives f' and g' have a special relationship. Next Section . Recall that (Since h approaches 0 from either side of 0, h can be either a positve or a negative number. The derivative of y = arccot x. Detailed step by step solutions to your Derivatives of trigonometric functions problems online with our math solver and calculator. −1=−π 2. Examples: Find the derivatives of each given function. Putting all of this together gives the following derivative. Let’s understand this topic by taking some problems, which we will solve by using the First Principal. Ask Question Asked 28 days ago. Section. Using implicit differentiation and then solving for dy/dx, the derivative of the inverse function is found in terms of y. Type in any function derivative to get the solution, steps and graph 1. Don’t forget to convert the radical to fractional exponents before using the product rule. List of Derivatives of Simple Functions; List of Derivatives of Log and Exponential Functions; List of Derivatives of Trig & Inverse Trig Functions; List of Derivatives of Hyperbolic & Inverse Hyperbolic Functions; List of Integrals Containing cos; List of Integrals Containing sin; List of Integrals Containing cot; List of Integrals Containing tan If $$f\left( x \right)$$ and $$g\left( x \right)$$ are inverse functions then. The marginal cost of a product can be thought of as the cost of producing one additional unit of output. There you have it! Solve this … Derivatives of the Inverse Trigonometric Functions. Lessons On Trigonometry Inverse trigonometry Trigonometric Derivatives Calculus: Derivatives Calculus Lessons. Inverse Trigonometry. As with the inverse sine we are really just asking the following. Notes Practice Problems Assignment Problems. 2 The graph of y = sin x does not pass the horizontal line test, so it has no inverse. List of Derivatives of Simple Functions; List of Derivatives of Log and Exponential Functions; List of Derivatives of Trig & Inverse Trig Functions; List of Derivatives of Hyperbolic & Inverse Hyperbolic Functions; List of Integrals Containing cos; List of Integrals Containing sin; List of Integrals Containing cot; List of Integrals Containing tan Let’s take one function for example, y = 2x + 3. In mathematics, an inverse function (or anti-function) is a function that "reverses" another function: if the function f applied to an input x gives a result of y, then applying its inverse function g to y gives the result x, i.e., g(y) = x if and only if f(x) = y. Inverse Trigonometric Functions - Derivatives - Harder Example. Derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions Calculator Get detailed solutions to your math problems with our Derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions step-by-step calculator. Free derivative calculator - differentiate functions with all the steps. Not much to do with this one other than differentiate each term. Because there is no restriction on $$x$$ we can ask for the limits of the inverse tangent function as $$x$$ goes to plus or minus infinity. What are Inverse Functions? Differentiating inverse trigonometric functions Derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions AP.CALC: FUN‑3 (EU) , FUN‑3.E (LO) , FUN‑3.E.2 (EK) Trigonometric Functions (With Restricted Domains) and Their Inverses. Check out all of our online calculators here! Here is the definition of the inverse sine. Specifically, they are the inverses of the sine, cosine, tangent, cotangent, secant, and cosecant functions, and are used to obtain an angle from any of the angle's trigonometric ratios. The derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions are quite surprising in that their derivatives are actually algebraic functions. Firstly we have to know about the Implicit function. The basic trigonometric functions include the following $$6$$ functions: sine $$\left(\sin x\right),$$ cosine $$\left(\cos x\right),$$ tangent $$\left(\tan x\right),$$ cotangent $$\left(\cot x\right),$$ secant $$\left(\sec x\right)$$ and cosecant $$\left(\csc x\right).$$ All these functions are continuous and differentiable in their domains. We’ll go through inverse sine, inverse cosine and inverse tangent in detail here and leave the other three to you to derive if you’d like to. 13. Derivatives of Inverse Trigonometric Functions Introduction to Inverse Trigonometric Functions. Inverse trigonometric functions are the inverse functions of the trigonometric ratios i.e. Lets call \begin{align*} \arcsin(x) &= \theta(x), \end{align*} so that the derivative we are seeking is $$\diff{\theta}{x}\text{. To prove these derivatives, we need to know pythagorean identities for trig functions. We can use implicit differentiation to find the formulas for the derivatives of the inverse trigonometric functions, as the following examples suggest: Finding the Derivative of Inverse Sine Function, \displaystyle{\frac{d}{dx} (\arcsin x)} Suppose \arcsin x = \theta. Derivatives of Inverse Trigonometric Functions We can use implicit differentiation to find the formulas for the derivatives of the inverse trigonometric functions, as the following examples suggest: Finding the Derivative of Inverse Sine Function, d d x (arcsin Using the first part of this definition the denominator in the derivative becomes. Derivatives of trigonometric functions Calculator online with solution and steps. The formula for the derivative of y= sin 1 xcan be obtained using the fact that the derivative of the inverse function y= f 1 (x) is the reciprocal of the derivative x= f(y). Differentiating inverse functions. inverse trig function and label two of the sides of a right triangle. Complex analysis. Definitions as infinite series. Learn vocabulary, terms, and more with flashcards, games, and other study tools. 11 mins. Formulas for the remaining three could be derived by a similar process as we did those above. If we restrict the domain (to half a period), then we can talk about an inverse function. AP.CALC: FUN‑3 (EU), FUN‑3.E (LO), FUN‑3.E.1 (EK) Google Classroom Facebook Twitter. Section 3-7 : Derivatives of Inverse Trig Functions. Solved exercises of Derivatives of trigonometric functions. To convince yourself that this range will cover all possible values of tangent do a quick sketch of the tangent function and we can see that in this range we do indeed cover all possible values of tangent. The inverse trigonometric functions actually perform the opposite operation of the trigonometric functions such as sine, cosine, tangent, cosecant, secant, and cotangent. The derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions are quite surprising in that their derivatives are actually algebraic functions. What are Implicit functions? So in this function variable y is dependent on variable x, which means when the value of x change in the function value of y will also change. The best part is, the other inverse trig proofs are proved similarly by using pythagorean identities and substitution, except the cofunctions will be negative. So, evaluating an inverse trig function is the same as asking what angle (i.e. Learn vocabulary, terms, and more with flashcards, games, and other study tools. Table Of Derivatives Of Inverse Trigonometric Functions. If we start with. Example 2: Find y′ if . The derivative of y = arccos x. AP Calculus AB - Worksheet 33 Derivatives of Inverse Trigonometric Functions Know the following Theorems. Then we'll talk about the more common inverses and their derivatives. The inverse trigonometric functions actually perform the opposite operation of the trigonometric functions such as sine, cosine, tangent, cosecant, secant, and cotangent. The restrictions on \(y$$ given above are there to make sure that we get a consistent answer out of the inverse sine. Here are the derivatives of all six inverse trig functions. Show Mobile Notice Show All Notes Hide All Notes. In order to derive the derivatives of inverse trig functions we’ll need the formula from the last section relating the derivatives of inverse functions. They are as follows. The denominator is then. These six important functions are used to find the angle measure in a right triangle when two sides of the triangle measures are known. Derivatives of trigonometric functions Calculator online with solution and steps. Derivative of Inverse Trigonometric Function as Implicit Function. This notation is, You appear to be on a device with a "narrow" screen width (, $\begin{array}{ll}\displaystyle \frac{d}{{dx}}\left( {{{\sin }^{ - 1}}x} \right) = \frac{1}{{\sqrt {1 - {x^2}} }} & \hspace{1.0in}\displaystyle \frac{d}{{dx}}\left( {{{\cos }^{ - 1}}x} \right) = - \frac{1}{{\sqrt {1 - {x^2}} }}\\ \displaystyle \frac{d}{{dx}}\left( {{{\tan }^{ - 1}}x} \right) = \frac{1}{{1 + {x^2}}} & \hspace{1.0in}\displaystyle \frac{d}{{dx}}\left( {{{\cot }^{ - 1}}x} \right) = - \frac{1}{{1 + {x^2}}}\\ \displaystyle \frac{d}{{dx}}\left( {{{\sec }^{ - 1}}x} \right) = \frac{1}{{\left| x \right|\sqrt {{x^2} - 1} }} & \hspace{1.0in}\displaystyle \frac{d}{{dx}}\left( {{{\csc }^{ - 1}}x} \right) = - \frac{1}{{\left| x \right|\sqrt {{x^2} - 1} }}\end{array}$, Derivatives of Exponential and Logarithm Functions, L'Hospital's Rule and Indeterminate Forms, Substitution Rule for Indefinite Integrals, Volumes of Solids of Revolution / Method of Rings, Volumes of Solids of Revolution/Method of Cylinders, Parametric Equations and Polar Coordinates, Gradient Vector, Tangent Planes and Normal Lines, Triple Integrals in Cylindrical Coordinates, Triple Integrals in Spherical Coordinates, Linear Homogeneous Differential Equations, Periodic Functions & Orthogonal Functions, Heat Equation with Non-Zero Temperature Boundaries, Absolute Value Equations and Inequalities, $$f\left( t \right) = 4{\cos ^{ - 1}}\left( t \right) - 10{\tan ^{ - 1}}\left( t \right)$$, $$y = \sqrt z \, {\sin ^{ - 1}}\left( z \right)$$. 2 3 2 2 1. Definition of the Inverse Cotangent Function. Type in any function derivative to get the solution, steps and graph This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience. We have the following relationship between the inverse sine function and the sine function. If you’re not sure of that sketch out a unit circle and you’ll see that that range of angles (the $$y$$’s) will cover all possible values of sine. 2 1 3 2 2 2 6 3 1 1 12 The derivative of tan 4 is 12 1 1 16 1 4 x y x d x x x 3. Derivative of the inverse function at a point is the reciprocal of the derivative of the function at the corresponding point . Calculate Arcsine, Arccosine, Arctangent, Arccotangent, Arcsecant and Arccosecant for values of x and get answers in degrees, ratians and pi. where $$y$$ satisfies the restrictions given above. 2 mins read. you are probably on a mobile phone). all lines parallel to the line 3x-8y=4 are given by the equation of which of the following form? You appear to be on a device with a "narrow" screen width (i.e. Next Differentiation of Exponential and Logarithmic Functions. An observer is 5oo ft from launch site of a rocket. Complex inverse trigonometric functions. T (z) = 2cos(z)+6cos−1(z) T ( z) = 2 cos. . Differentiation - Inverse Trigonometric Functions Date_____ Period____ Differentiate each function with respect to x. Again, if you’d like to verify this a quick sketch of a unit circle should convince you that this range will cover all possible values of cosine exactly once. •lim. Problem Statement: sin-1 x = y, under given conditions -1 ≤ x ≤ 1, -pi/2 ≤ y ≤ pi/2. Simplifying the denominator here is almost identical to the work we did for the inverse sine and so isn’t shown here. It almost always helps in double checking the work. Simplifying the denominator is similar to the inverse sine, but different enough to warrant showing the details. •lim. Active 27 days ago. Inverse Trig Functions c A Math Support Center Capsule February 12, 2009 Introduction Just as trig functions arise in many applications, so do the inverse trig functions. To avoid confusion between negative exponents and inverse functions, sometimes it’s safer to write arcsin instead of sin^(-1) when you’re talking about the inverse sine function. Proofs of the formulas of the derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions are presented along with several other examples involving sums, products and quotients of functions. Example: Find the derivative of a function $$y = \sin^{-1}x$$. Important Sets of Results and their Applications $$y$$) did we plug into the sine function to get $$x$$. Detailed step by step solutions to your Derivatives of trigonometric functions problems online with our math solver and calculator. Proofs of the formulas of the derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions are presented along with several other examples involving sums, products and quotients of functions. Subsection 2.12.1 Derivatives of Inverse Trig Functions. We know that there are in fact an infinite number of angles that will work and we want a consistent value when we work with inverse sine. Slope of the line tangent to at = is the reciprocal of the slope of at = . Here is the definition of the inverse tangent. VIEW MORE. The derivative of y = arcsin x. The only difference is the negative sign. Learn more Accept. To derive the derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions we will need the previous formala’s of derivatives of inverse functions. It may not be obvious, but this problem can be viewed as a derivative problem. Find the derivative of y with respect to the appropriate variable. Derivatives of inverse trigonometric functions Calculator online with solution and steps. Another method to find the derivative of inverse functions is also included and may be used. DERIVATIVES OF INVERSE TRIGONOMETRIC FUNCTIONS. As with the inverse sine we’ve got a restriction on the angles, $$y$$, that we get out of the inverse cosine function. ). This is not a very useful formula. Also, in this case there are no restrictions on $$x$$ because tangent can take on all possible values. So, the derivative of the inverse cosine is nearly identical to the derivative of the inverse sine. Formula for the Derivative of Inverse Cosecant Function. Let’s start with. Now let’s take a look at the inverse cosine. For each of the following problems differentiate the given function. Email. Just like addition and subtraction are the inverses of each other, the same is true for the inverse of trigonometric functions. Using the range of angles above gives all possible values of the sine function exactly once. f(x) = 3sin-1 (x) g(x) = 4cos-1 (3x 2) Show Video Lesson. Below is a chart which shows the six inverse hyperbolic functions and their derivatives. What may be most surprising is that they are useful not only in the calculation of angles given The Derivative of an Inverse Function. AP Calculus AB - Worksheet 33 Derivatives of Inverse Trigonometric Functions Know the following Theorems. Previously, derivatives of algebraic functions have proven to be algebraic functions and derivatives of trigonometric functions have been shown to be trigonometric functions. Recall as well that two functions are inverses if $$f\left( {g\left( x \right)} \right) = x$$ and $$g\left( {f\left( x \right)} \right) = x$$. The tangent and inverse tangent functions are inverse functions so, Therefore, to find the derivative of the inverse tangent function we can start with. Quick summary with Stories. Let’s start with inverse sine. To prove these derivatives, we need to know pythagorean identities for trig functions. Indefinite integrals of inverse trigonometric functions. 1. The following derivatives are found by setting a variable y equal to the inverse trigonometric function that we wish to take the derivative of. Generally, the inverse trigonometric function are represented by adding arc in prefix for a trigonometric function, or by adding the power of -1, such as: Inverse of sin x = arcsin(x) or $$\sin^{-1}x$$ Let us now find the derivative of Inverse trigonometric function. Example: Find the derivatives of y = sin-1 (cos x/(1+sinx)) Show Video Lesson. Now that we understand how to find an inverse hyperbolic function when we start with a hyperbolic function, let’s talk about how to find the derivative of the inverse hyperbolic function. The formula for the derivative of y= sin 1 xcan be obtained using the fact that the derivative of the inverse function y= f 1(x) is the reciprocal of the derivative x= f(y). The derivatives of the above-mentioned inverse trigonometric functions follow from trigonometry identities, implicit differentiation, and the chain rule. Inverse trigonometric functions are the inverse functions of the trigonometric ratios i.e. In the following discussion and solutions the derivative of a function h (x) will be denoted by or h ' (x). The Derivative of Inverse Trigonometric Function as Implicit Function. We’ll start with the definition of the inverse tangent. 2. g(t) = csc−1(t)−4cot−1(t) g ( t) = csc − 1 ( t) − 4 cot − 1 ( t) Solution. Calculus 1 Worksheet #21A Derivatives of Inverse Trig Functions and Implicit Differentiation _____ Revised: 9/25/2017 EXAMPLES: 1. and divide every term by cos2 $$y$$ we will get. 2. Derivative of Inverse Trigonometric functions. One example does not require the chain rule and one example requires the chain rule. −1=π 2. Also, we also have $$- 1 \le x \le 1$$ because $$- 1 \le \cos \left( y \right) \le 1$$. Here is the definition for the inverse cosine. at the moment that the angle of elevation is pi/4 radians, the angle is increased threat of 0.2 rad/min. Derivatives of the Inverse Trig Functions; Integrals Involving the Inverse Trig Functions; More Practice; We learned about the Inverse Trig Functions here, and it turns out that the derivatives of them are not trig expressions, but algebraic. The above-mentioned inverse trigonometric functions calculator online with our math solver and calculator ratios.... The equation of which of the inverse cosine, and other study.... See if we restrict the domain ( to half a period ), FUN‑3.E ( )! I / derivatives / derivatives of trigonometric functions have various application in engineering, navigation, physics, more! Appropriate restrictions are placed on... derivatives of trigonometric functions calculator online with solution and steps one example does pass. Not be obvious, but different enough to warrant showing the details can use second. 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# RInside 0.2.9

November 5, 2012
By

(This article was first published on Thinking inside the box , and kindly contributed to R-bloggers)

A new version 0.2.9 of RInside arrived on CRAN earlier today; Windows binaries have already been built too. RInside provides a set of convenience classes which facilitate embedding of R inside of C++ applications and programs, using the classes and functions provided by the Rcpp R and C++ integration package.

This release adds a few new features as detailed in the extract from the NEWS below.

A key new feature is the added support for resilience to bad user input based on discussions and an initial (but altered) patch by Theodore Lytras. There are a few ways that this can be deployedon so we also added two more example programs detailing it. The featured Qt example and the Wt example have been updated to use this too.

Another feature that may be quite useful for some is the additonal attempt to find a value for R_HOME if none has been set. The value is typically found at compile time of the RInside package which poses a problem for those using the Windows build -- which is shipped as a binary reflecting the value of the build system. One alternative has always been to build the package locally too to get the local value, or to set it explicitly. But because the error behaviour – a cryptic message of Cannot open base package – is confusing to many, we now try to call the R function which gets this value from the registry. This may need more tweaking and testing, and if you use RInside on the Windows platform I would appreciate feedback.

The complete list of changes since the last release are summarized below in the corresponding NEWS file entry:

#### Changes in RInside version 0.2.9 (2012-11-04)

• Applied (modified) patch by Theodore Lytras which lets RInside recover from some parsing errors and makes RInside applications more tolerant of errors

• Added non-throwing variants of parseEval() and parseEvalQ()

• Modified Qt and Wt examples of density estimation applications to be much more resilient to bad user input

• On Windows, have RInside use R's get_R_HOME() function to get R_HOME value from registry if not set by user

• Added note to examples/standard/Makefile.win that R_HOME may need to be set to run the executables – so either export your local value, or re-install RInside from source to have it reflected in the library build of libRinside

• Updated CMake build support for standard, armadillo and eigen

• Improved CMake builds of examples/standard, examples/eigen and examples/armadillo by detecting architecture

CRANberries also provides a short report with changes from the previous release. More information is on the RInside page. Questions, comments etc should go to the rcpp-devel mailing list off the Rcpp R-Forge page.

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Meta: too much talking, too little action, and a proposed solution

$\large\textbf{Firstly}$, if you haven't already noticed, we have decided to reinstate the homework close reason. Martin and I aren't great fans of the policy, but we also don't get the feeling that there is significant support for repealing it. So, at least for now, it is here to stay, and I promise I won't bring it up in the near future.

However, this also reveals a problem that we have had for a long time: we talk a lot on meta, but it is always difficult to reach a concrete conclusion. There are a few exceptions, such as the decision to blacklist the [tag:reaction] tag. Notice that here, there was an explicit trigger for action to be taken, namely "20 or more upvotes on Klaus's answer". But this is a rare case. Far too often we have open-ended questions, we discuss it, people write long answers, but at the end of the day nothing actually happens.

This really does frustrate me, and as a moderator, it is not an easy task to deal with. Generally, we have refrained from making sweeping decisions, and as a result we avoid a lot of the drama that some other sites might experience. However, it also means we don't really get anywhere, and can't really progress as a site. In terms of policy, we have gotten very stagnant. Even a tiny issue like whether hint-answers are acceptable has not gotten anywhere. It is a simple question, with only so many possible answers. Yet there has not been any resolution.

The perhaps-too-obvious solution is to set up a poll for every actionable proposal on meta. (Not every meta question is an actionable proposal, of course.) However, the issue with doing this right off the bat is that it tends to stifle discussion. The answers to this meta.SE post, for example, show that poll-style questions are generally frowned upon.

But simply leaving the discussion to be entirely open-ended has not served us well either. These represent two extremes of the spectrum: neither 100% discussion, nor 100% polling, are good solutions.

I'd like to find a new way of dealing with these proposals. Here is my suggestion.

• As is already the case, we will begin by having a period of discussion, where people may put forth their ideas and solutions as answers to the question.
• Not every answer has to propose a solution (some people may simply want to write their general thoughts on the matter), but if an answer is proposing a solution, it should explicitly identify what the solution is.
• As always, each proposed solution must have supporting rationale. Therefore, "discussion" can still take place.
• If you believe that no solution should be adopted, i.e. we should stay with status quo, then you must post an answer saying that, so that it can be voted on. If there is no answer to this effect, I would assume that nobody wants status quo.
• After 3 weeks, we will simply implement whichever solution has the highest number of upvotes. Downvotes will not be counted.
• As hBy2Py suggested, there will be a minimum threshold of upvotes needed for any action to be adopted. This threshold will vary with the issue - more important issues will need more votes.

Thoughts, alternative suggestions, etc. – please drop an answer. As always, we value community feedback very much and what you say does matter to us. Thank you in advance!

Conclusion, 11 Jul 17: we will do this going forward.

• I don't think the real problem is too much talking - that is required to form group norms around an issue. So, the issue is more how to move forward from a consensus group norm to a policy. I'm not particularly sure how that happened on other similar, but older, sites such Physics. Jul 7 '17 at 17:54
• @JonCuster Too much talking compared to the amount of action taken, though. ortho, ironically, I think we needed to implement the policy proposed by this post, on this post. :-P Jul 8 '17 at 19:36
• @JonCuster You're right; in hindsight, the title was really poorly phrased, and I most certainly don't want to clamp down on discussion.
– orthocresol Mod
Jul 9 '17 at 5:47
• After 3 weeks, we will simply implement whichever solution has the highest number of upvotes. Downvotes will not be counted. Why are downvotes not considered? IMO a downvote does imply that there's a person who has voted to not implement that idea. By this way, an answer with +10 -10 (net 0) would be implemented over a +4 -0 (net 4) post. That wouldn't be good. Jul 11 '17 at 5:49
• @PrittBalagopal The reasons are very simple: (1) counting downvotes means that we (can) end up counting a person's opinion multiple times. (2) downvotes aren't useful in figuring out what people want to do, only what people don't want to do. If people want a different solution, they should write an answer to that effect, and if the majority thinks that that's better, then they'll vote for it. || As an aside, you will notice that, in pretty much no election in this world, is there any equivalent to a downvote. People vote for the candidate they want, not for the candidate they don't want.
– orthocresol Mod
Jul 11 '17 at 6:11
• @orthocresol I see, what about: By this way, an answer with +10 -10 (net 0) would be implemented over a +4 -0 (net 4) post.? Jul 11 '17 at 6:14
• @PrittBalagopal Let's take the best case scenario, that 4 of the 10 people who downvoted answer A also did upvote answer B. Good for them. As for the 6 other downvoters, if they didn't upvote any answer, their vote is essentially spoilt. They were given an equal opportunity to vote and an equal opportunity to have their voices heard, but chose not to utilise it. So, too bad for them.
– orthocresol Mod
Jul 11 '17 at 6:16
• ... maybe a more debatable scenario is one where we have answer A with +10/-11, answer B with +4/0, answer C with +7/0. Then, it simply comes down to whether we require an absolute majority (50% or more vote share), or just a simple majority. My post indicates a simple majority would suffice, and I am inclined to stand by that, simply because: we will always review policies as we go along, and if it really turns out to be a lousy policy, then we can easily revert it. [This holds true regardless of how many people vote for it.]
– orthocresol Mod
Jul 11 '17 at 6:27
• "This threshold will vary with the issue - more important issues will need more votes." I think we cannot set the threshold beforehand. Look at the recent ebooks meta post for example. Voting's ending in 24hrs, but there's only been 17voters (+11 on mine, and +6 on yours) till now. And the views are at a meagre 270 times for that post. In all honestly, I would have set a threshold of at least 15 upvotes on the post, because, if we are to take an action representing a community as big as ours, 15 seems to be the bare minimum support we should have before proposing anything to external people. Apr 28 '18 at 15:00
• ...but as it turns out, what was an important issue in your or my opinion, isn't as important for many people out there. Hence, the point of view may differs, and the minimum threshold would differ too. || Also, "After 3 weeks," seems like you've changed this to just 12 days for that ebooks meta post. Not really a big deal, because the voting in the past five days has already been scarce, so there isn't any point in extending it for another week, but just wanted to let you know. Apr 28 '18 at 15:02
• To add more, in my opinion, for example, the ambigious definition and misapplication of the stereochemistry, isomers, geometrical-isomerism, chiralily, etc. tags on our main site is an important issue. I already have a draft written on it, but I wouldn't post it for some time now, because it'll probably be downvoted/ignored. That's exactly what has happened to some of my past requests about clarification on tags lately. Thus, what's important to me, is irrelevant to others. I am not saying that I am right in wanting to have a discussion on this, but just that priorities differ by person. Apr 28 '18 at 17:22

Most of us have noticed by now that chemistry.se is like a living and breathing organism, with constant change and also quite a few habits. As with anything that is living, it resists to sudden change and that is - in my opinion - why we are talking a lot, but leave a final decision open.
I personally find the meta process to reach consensus (which is actually more like a compromise) a good, if not only, approach to dealing with issues. In the past it suited us well enough for smaller changes, like merging tags, or clarifications and smaller changes about the scope of the questions and answers. In all these cases we adapted to what seemed the common opinion. For this process to work, it is necessary to have enough exposure and an open discussion for an extended period. The process really only works though, if everybody voices their opinion, by writing an answer (not just a comment) so that it also can be voted on, and the common opinion can actually be established.

I dislike the idea of polls completely. They undermine this process by guiding our users and inhibiting open discussions. I also do not like formalising how to go about policy changes, and making the meta-system more rigid than it actually needs to be. In the worst case scenario, we get caught up in level two meta discussions about how to change policies to change policies.

I am a big advocate of progressive change, making the site more inclusive and decisions transparent for everyone to follow. As a moderator I dislike making unilateral decisions with long reaching effects. It is no secret that I would like to change the homework policy to a more constructive pattern. My attempts so far have failed, maybe because I couldn't get my point across; maybe it is because I do not understand the wishes of the community. For now this is water down the bridge and at one point I need to let it go.

What I learned from this ordeal is that in most cases a meta post is not sufficiently equipped with an actual proposal, or the proposal itself might be hidden in too much text. In some cases we simply need to flush it out more precisely, or make clear what action(s) should be taken. I am very much on board with this part of Orthocresol's proposal. However, when there is a lack of answers, comments, and votes we will get stuck; the proposed plan will unfortunately not change that. It's also not a guaranteed solution. When there is too much disagreement, there will always be disagreement. The meta process is concerned with reconciling those differences and finding a common solution.
In the linked example about hint-answers, it is actually hard to see the common ground - I would say it's in favour, but I am not sure.
Sometimes you just have to move on for a while and bring it up fresh.

About the last part, I think it is common sense, that there should be a minimum number of votes applied. I don't think it is necessary to spell that out explicitly. I think it is a good idea to remind everyone to vote once they have read the proposal, but I don't think a trigger needs to be included in the actual post.
I know that this is analogous to my blacklist proposal of [reaction], but that case was a bit different. I would like to remind everyone that I first asked for opinions and thoughts on the matter, and only later (after receiving Klaus' answer) changed it to an actual request as there already seemed to be consensus. I included the trigger explicitly simply because it needed to be abundantly clear to the team what the community decision is.

Take this proposal as another example of how and why the meta process works. The post has earned a significant amount of up-votes, no down-votes, one addendum, one (not quite as well received) implementation proposal, (and now this,) but no objective opinion rejecting it or offering a counter proposal. Therefore I would consider the case closed and added as consensus.

There should be a minimum threshold of votes required before any action is taken, as with the blacklist.

• I actually put that exact line in and took it out. My original threshold was going to be 10 votes. However, I left it out because I kind of suspect that this would favour inaction (don't want anything to happen? Just don't vote). But I can certainly see the reasons for having a minimum.
– orthocresol Mod
Jul 3 '17 at 18:57
• Minimum could be selected per-issue. I think you have to have some sort of appreciable minimum, or else the legitimacy becomes suspect. Jul 3 '17 at 18:59
• Ok, yes. I can get behind that. Upon second thoughts, you're right, 4 vs 3 votes really doesn't make much sense. I'll edit it back in tomorrow.
– orthocresol Mod
Jul 3 '17 at 19:09
• I think it depends what the issue is - For non-controversial things that can easily be implemented and don't actively change the general workings of the site I think the f**k it and see approach works well and avoids endless debate until after we see if it flies or fails. Obviously the homework closing kind of issues are harder and some discussion is needed, though as ever I doubt concensus can be reached on things having a drastic shift Jul 3 '17 at 19:20

Some sort of recommendations for the formatting of "official action proposals" might be useful. Probably drawing up a rigid template would be overkill, but some sort of standardized suggestion would be good, to draw attention. For example, formatting as:

• Short title as major section heading (here, one leading #)
• Description of the action proposal in italics
• Longer description in regular text only if really, really needed

In particular, specific arguments supporting the proposed action should be posted as separate answers, so that community members can vote for the action they prefer without feeling like they're also being forced to support any particular rationale for that action.

A sample action proposal post:

Enable the color Extension

Upvote this answer to vote in favor of enabling the MathJax color extension site-wide.

A sample post for an opposing vote:

Do Not Enable the color Extension

Upvote this answer to vote against enabling the MathJax color extension site-wide.

Sample argument in favor:

Due to the fact that loading the color extension overwrites the default \color command with an incompatible behavior, and that any posts invoking \require{color} thus have the potential to accidentally 'vandalize' other posts using the default \color, loading the color extension by default will avoid these sorts of collisions.

As of this writing, there are 91 posts that use any of the default color commands (\color, \fcolor, or \colorbox). These posts would have to be updated to use the commands from the color extension. This would not be a trivial task, but neither is it prohibitive.

Sample argument against:

Only 91 posts out of the thousands on Chem.SE make use of text coloring. It's not worth (a) the additional overhead of loading another package or (b) the effort of converting those 91 posts to the right syntax.

• Your example would be much stronger if you used a concrete (contrived would be okay) situation. Jul 3 '17 at 21:49
• @jonsca Fair enough. I'll put some thought into a real-write. Jul 3 '17 at 22:33
• (not my downvote, by the way. I certainly get your point, it's just easier to get it across in other ways) Jul 3 '17 at 23:48
• @jonsca ... and done. Jul 4 '17 at 4:02
• "Frobnigate the Wofzig" is that a Chem.SE meme title or what? Never heard that before and it makes no sense to me @hBy2Py :-O Mar 16 '18 at 9:37
• @GaurangTandon Hahaha, no, it was a random thing I put together from nothing. It was supposed to be a sort of lorem ipsum/greeking, in something of a technobabble vein. Mar 16 '18 at 13:44
• @hBy2Py Lol I wonder how you even came up with that xD Mar 16 '18 at 13:47