Car Loan upside down--refinance before selling?
Carmax will be interested in setting a price that allows them to make money on the reselling of the vehicle. They won't offer you more than that. The determination of the value compared to the BlueBook value is based on condition and miles. The refinancing of the auto loan could lower your monthly payment, but may not save you any money in the short term. The new lender will also want an evaluation of the vehicle, and if it is less than the payoff amount of the current loan they will ask you to make a lump sum payment. This is addition to the cost of getting the new loan setup. If you can pay the delta between the value of the car and loan then do so, when you sell the car. Don't refinance unless you plan on keeping the car for many months, or you are just adding paperwork to the transaction. "Having just gone through selling a car, I can tell you that CarMax will most likely not be the best solution. I recently sold my '09 Pontiac Vibe which had a KBB and Edmonds value (private party sale) of around $6k. Trade-in value was around $4,800. I took it to the local CarMax for a quote, and they came back with $3,500.  Refinancing is tricky. Banks have a set limit on how old a car they will finance. Many won't even offer financing if the vehicle has over 100k miles. We looked at refinancing our other car, and even getting the APR down over a point we would only have saved $15/mo or so. Banks typically offer much higher interest rates for used non-dealership cars and refinancing than they do for new cars, or even used cars purchased from a dealership. Assuming you have 2-3 years left on your loan, I don't think that refinancing would save you enough to be worth considering. CarMax sells cars in 1 of 2 ways. They are also up front with you about the process. They do not reference KBB or Edmonds or any other valuation tool other than their own internal system. They either take the car, spruce it up a bit, then resell it on their lot, or they sell it at auction. If they determine your car will be sold at auction, then they will offer you a rock bottom price. The determining factors that come into play include age of the car, mileage, and of course overall condition. If you Mini is still in good shape and doesn't have a lot of miles, then they may try to resell it on their lot, for which they could offer you closer to personal-sale price than trade-in. How many 2007's are for sale in your area? How much are they selling for? I did sell them a truck back in 2005 and received $200 more than KBB valued it for, but it was in great shape, only a couple of years old, relatively low mileage, and it was in high demand. God bless the South and their love for trucks! I ended up selling my Pontiac to another local car dealership. They offered me $5,300 (after negotiating, leaving the dealership, then negotiating more over the phone). It took me a day and a half and really very little effort. I have several friends that have gone through the same thing with selling cars, and all have had similar luck going to other dealerships, where prices can be negotiated, rather than CarMax.  CarMax has no incentive to ""settle"" or forgive your loan. If you really want to pay it off, save up what you believe the difference will be, then shop your car around the local dealerships and get prices for your Mini. Remember that dealers have to turn a profit, so be reasonable with your negotiation. If you can find comparable vehicles in your area listed for $X,000 then knock $1,500 off that price and tell the dealerships that's what you want." As for refinancing: Many institutions charge up-front fees when doing any type of vehicle loan. Typically this is in the neighborhood of 1% the value of the loan, with a floor of $100 (although this may vary by lender). However, for the loan the be secured by the vehicle, the principle value must be less than the collateral value. In your case, this means there is a collateral shortfall of $4,000. When working with a traditional bank, you would have two options: pay the difference up front (reducing the principle value of the loan), or obtaining a separate loan for the difference. This separate loan would often have a higher interest rate unless you have some other form of collateral to secure it with. I doubt CarMax would do a separate loan. All that being said, if you plan on selling the vehicle within the next twelves months, don't bother refinancing. It won't be worth the hassle.
"My husband made a similar car loan decision when he was younger and didn't have an established credit history / favourable credit rating.  As a result, he ended up paying triple what the car was worth, because of the interest. When we consolidated our finances, this ugly loan was first on our list of priorities to change, convert, eliminate, but unfortunately, in our case, the terms of the loan were such that only the lender benefited.  There was no incentive to pay off the loan early, in fact, we would have to have paid all the future interest at once, without saving a penny. So check the terms of your loan - hopefully you're better off than we were.  In our case, the only upside we could figure was the lesson of ""live and learn""!" I worked in auto finance years ago, what dealers tend to do in refinance the negative value of the customer current car to the new one.  So if a car is worth 30k they may finance it for 35k. Finance company will do as not to lose the dealer and customer is happy to get a new car.  I had one customer call on a car he financed for 85k, car brand new was worth 70k. Told me how he was looking to pay out the loan and go to the competition for better rates. Before offering anything I did a quick value check and no way was it worth it for us to reduce the rates.  Told him good luck and he needed to pay X amount, he asked me if I'm not going to offer a better deal, I told him no.  He blew up telling me the dealer told him to call 6 mouths later and the financial company would reduce the rates if he asked for a payout.  Customer also had a car that dropped its value like no tomorrow, so it book value was around 60k. So over the refinance limit.  6 mouths later get a call from collection, telling me just a heads up this guy's cars was sold at the auction as he couldn't make repayments for 30k.  Guy was also told by the dealer he could just hand the car back in but wasn't told he still needed to pay back the difference in the loan once he did.  My god some people had no clue. To avoid risk from rising interest rates, get a fixed rate mortgage. For the life of the mortgage your principal and interest payments will remain the same. Keep in mind that the taxes and insurance portion of your monthly payment may still go up. Because you own the property, the costs to maintain the property are your responsibility. If you rented this would be the responsibility of the owner of the property; if the cost to repair and maintain goes up so does the rent. Because you are the owner your annual costs to repair and maintain may go up over time. The way to eliminate risk of loss of value is to never move, until the mortgage is paid off. You will know exactly what principal and interest will cost you over the life of the loan. When you sell that will be essentially return on your payments. You don't know if the loss of value is due to world, national, regional, local or individual circumstances. so hedging is tough. If the fact that the mortgage is 95% is what makes you nervous, your biggest risk is risk of being upside down. That risk is greatly reduced by increasing the amount of the down payment. That decreases the risk that the value will be below the mortgage amount if due to unforeseen circumstances you have to sell immediately. The money will still be lost due to decrease in value, but you aren't forced to bring cash to the settlement table if you need to sell. If you're a bit into the loan, then they're probably hoping that you'll take longer to pay off the loan. Is there a fee for refinancing the loan?  If so, be sure to take that into account. A smart way to approach it (assuming that the fees are low or zero) would be to continue making the same payment you had been before the refinance.  Then you'll end your loan ahead of schedule.  (This assumes that there's no prepayment penalty.) I am new to the site and hope I can help! We just purchased a used car a few weeks ago and used dealer's finance again so that's not the issue here. I want to focus on what you can do to resolve your issue and not focus on the mistakes that were made.  1 - DO NOT PURCHASE A NEW CAR! Toyota Camrys are great cars that will last forever. I live in Rochester, NY and all you need is snow tires for the winter as ChrisInEdmonton suggested. This will make a world of difference. Also, when you get a car wash get an under-spray treatment for salt and rust (warm climate cars don't usually come with this treatment).   2 - Focus on paying this loan off. Pay extra to the monthly note, put any bonuses you get to the note. Take lunches to work to save money so you can pay extra. I'm not sure if you put any money down but your monthly note should be around $300? I would try putting $400+ down each month until it is paid off. Anything you can do. But, do not buy a new car until this one is fully paid off!  Let me know if this helps! Thanks! "I read a really good tract that my credit union gave me years ago written by a former car salesman about negotiation tactics with car dealers. Wish I could find it again, but I remember a few of the main points.  1) Never negotiate based on the monthly payment amount. Car salesmen love to get you into thinking about the monthly loan payment and often start out by asking what you can afford for a payment. They know that they can essentially charge you whatever they want for the car and make the payments hit your budget by tweaking the loan terms (length, down payment, etc.)  2) (New cars only) Don't negotiate on the price directly. It is extremely hard to compare prices between dealerships because it is very hard to find exactly the same combination of options. Instead negotiate the markup amount over dealer invoice.  3) Negotiate one thing at a time A favorite shell game of car dealers is to get you to negotiate the car price, trade-in price, and financing all at one time. Unless you are a rain-man mathematical genius, don't do it. Doing this makes it easy for them to make concessions on one thing and take them right back somewhere else. (Minus $500 on the new car, plus $200 through an extra half point on financing, etc).  4) Handling the Trade-In  5) 99.9999% of the time the ""I forgot to mention"" extra items are a ripoff They make huge bonuses for selling this extremely overpriced junk you don't need.    6) Scrutinize everything on the sticker price I've seen car dealers have the balls to add a line item for ""Marketing Costs"" at around $500, then claim with a straight face that unlike OTHER dealers they are just being upfront about their expenses instead of hiding them in the price of the car. Pure bunk. If you negotiate based on an offset from the invoice instead of sticker price it helps you avoid all this nonsense since the manufacturer most assuredly did not include ""Marketing costs"" on the dealer invoice. 7) Call Around before closing the deal Car dealers can be a little cranky about this, but they often have an ""Internet sales person"" assigned to handle this type of deal. Once you know what you want, but before you buy, get the model number and all the codes for the options then call 2-3 dealers and try to get a quote over the phone or e-mail on that exact car. Again, get the quote in terms of markup from dealer invoice price, not sticker price. Going through the Internet sales guy doesn't at all mean you have to buy on the Internet, I still suggest going down to the dealership with the best price and test driving the car in person. The Internet guy is just a sales guy like all the rest of them and will be happy to meet with you and talk through the deal in-person. Update: After recently going through this process again and talking to a bunch of dealers, I have a few things to add: 7a) The price posted on the Internet is often the dealer's bottom line number. Because of sites like AutoTrader and other car marketplaces that let you shop the car across dealerships, they have a lot of incentive to put their rock-bottom prices online where they know people aggressively comparison shop. 7b) Get the price of the car using the stock number from multiple sources (Autotrader, dealer web site, eBay Motors, etc.) and find the lowest price advertised. Then either print or take a screenshot of that price. Dealers sometimes change their prices (up or down) between the time you see it online and when you get to the dealership. I just bought a car where the price went up $1,000 overnight. The sales guy brought up the website and tried to convince me that I was confused. I just pulled up the screenshot on my iPhone and he stopped arguing. I'm not certain, but I got the feeling that there is some kind of bait-switch law that says if you can prove they posted a price they have to honor it. In at least two dealerships they got very contrite and backed away slowly from their bargaining position when I offered proof that they had posted the car at a lower price. 8) The sales guy has ultimate authority on the deal and doesn't need approval Inevitably they will leave the room to ""run the deal by my boss/financing guy/mom"" This is just a game and negotiating trick to serve two purposes:  - To keep you in the dealership longer not shopping at competitors.  - So they can good-cop/bad-cop you in the negotiations on price. That is, insult your offer without making you upset at the guy in front of you.  - To make it harder for you to walk out of the negotiation and compromise more readily.  Let me clarify that last point. They are using a psychological sales trick to make you feel like an ass for wasting the guy's time if you walk out on the deal after sitting in his office all afternoon, especially since he gave you free coffee and sodas. Also, if you have personally invested a lot of time in the deal so far, it makes you feel like you wasted your own time if you don't cross the goal line. As soon as one side of a negotiation forfeits the option to walk away from the deal, the power shifts significantly to the other side. Bottom line: Don't feel guilty about walking out if you can't get the deal you want. Remember, the sales guy is the one that dragged this thing out by playing hide-and-seek with you all day. He wasted your time, not the reverse." For a $350 monthly payment, she is currently paying $200 monthly in interest. You say that no bank will refinance her, but that is not true, I'm sure many banks are happy to refinance her to the value of the car. She should start that process. You'll find that your suggestion to pay $5000 down on the current loan is pretty similar to what she would need to bring to a bank to refinance (maybe as much as $7000 to refinance). After that she would be paying a much lower amount in interest, and she could still retire the loan a year or two (but she would be paying even less in interest). The advantage to borrowing from her emergency fund is that she retires the loan 14 months earlier. The problem is that you are prioritizing the least amount paid, and she is prioritizing an emergency fund. Emergency funds are also very important. You might have better success if you prioritize paying back the emergency fund in your plan. If she puts $7000 down to refinance, assume a 3 year loan at 4.5% with a $150 monthly payment. Instead of paying down the remaining $5000 quickly what if she put the extra $200/month toward paying back her emergency fund? It would take the same 3 years to fully pay it back without impacting the rest of her budget at all. If she has extra room in her budget, she could pay back that emergency fund even faster. Many of us who prioritize minimizing interest paid and maximizing interest earned already have a robust emergency fund. Your girlfriend isn't wrong to value that. Unexpected emergencies can cause much more interest to be paid if there is no way to deal with them. (That's how paycheck and title lenders capture their customers.) Talk to her about what emergencies she might need the money for, and make a plan to replenish the fund, and you're much more likely to have her buy in. Everybody on the car title will need to participate in the selling process. The person who is buying the car will need everybody to sign the paperwork so that nobody months later tries to say they never agreed to sell the car. The money will have to be sent to the lender to pay off the rest of the loan. If the money isn't enough to pay off the loan everybody will have to decide how the extra money will be sent to the lender. This will have to be done as part of the selling process because the lender doesn't want you to sell the car and keep the cash. Once the car is gone so is the collateral and they can't take it back if you miss payments.  If the cousin is too far away to participate in the selling of the car, you may need the buyer and the lender to tell you how to proceeded. If you are selling at a dealership they will know what documents and signatures will be needed, the bank will also know what to do. If the loan is almost paid off it may be easier to pay the loan first, and then get the title without the lenders name before trying to sell it.