I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT OUR NEXT
GUEST WHO IS THE BEST SELLING
AUTHOR OF "FOOD RULES" AND "THE
OMNIVORE'S DILEMMA."
PLEASE WELCOME, MICHAEL POLLAN!
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
( BAND PLAYING )
>> Stephen: WELL, NICE TO SEE
YOU AGAIN.
>> GOOD TO BE BACK.
>> Stephen: YOU KNOW I'M A BIG
FAN OF YOUR BOOKS, BOTANY
DESIRE, "THE OMNIVORE'S
DILEMMA," "FOOD RULES," "COOKS"
AND OTHERS, BUT YOU HAVE A NEW
BOOK CALLED "HOW TO CHANGE YOUR
MIND."
YOU'RE A LEGENDARY FOOD WRITER,
BUT YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT PUTTING
FOOD INTO YOUR HO MOUTH WITH THI
ONE, YOU TALK ABOUT PUTTING
PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS IN YOUR
MOUTH.
WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO WRITE
ABOUT TRIPPING BALLS?
( LAUGHTER )
AND WHAT'S THE TAKEAWAY?
>> YEAH, THIS IS NOT A BOOK
ABOUT FOOD.
MUSHROOMS, I GUESS, ARE THE LINK
BETWEEN MY PREVIOUS WORK AND MY
CURRENT WORK.
>> Stephen: YEAH.
BUT I WAS HEARING ABOUT THIS
INCREDIBLE RESEARCH USING
PSYCHEDELICS LIKE LSD TO HELP
PEOPLE WITH THEIR MENTAL HEALTH
PROBLEMS, WITH THEIR ADDICTIONS,
AND I DID A PIECE FOR THE "NEW
YORKER" A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO
INTERVIEWING PEOPLE WHO HAD
CANCER DIAGNOSES, AND THEY HAD
BEEN MINISTERED SILISIBIN TO
HELP THEM CONFRONT THEIR
MORTALITY AND THIS SEEMS LIKE A
BIZARRE IDEA.
>> Stephen: ABSOLUTELY,
BECAUSE WHO KNOWS WHERE THE MIND
GOES WHEN YOU'RE ON A
PSYCHOACTIVE DRUG.
>> YEAH, BUT PEOPLE EMERGED FROM
THIS EXPERIENCE, THEY WOULD HAVE
THESE POWERFUL SPIRITUAL
EXPERIENCES AND THEY WOULD
EMERGE FROM IT WITH THEIR FEAR
OF DEATH GONE.
I BECAME VERY CURIOUS TO SEE HOW
CAN A MOLECULE DO THAT TO
ANYBODY AND THAT LAUNCHED ME ON
THIS.
>> Stephen: DID YOU RESEARCH
THE VARIOUS --
( LAUGHTER )
I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO ASK
IS ARE YOU HIGH RIGHT NOW?
( LAUGHTER )
>> I'M NOT.
>> Stephen: OKAY.
WHAT DID YOU DO IN SERVICE OF
THIS PROJECT?
>> WELL, MY BRAND IS EMERGING
JOURNALISM.
WHEN I WROTE ABOUT THE CAT
INDUSTRY, I BOUGHT A STEER.
SO, NATURALLY, IF I'M WRITING
ABOUT SILISIBIN, I HAD TO
IMMERSE MYSELF IN THAT
EXPERIENCE.
>> Stephen: YOU TOOK MAGIC
MUSHROOMS.
>> I TOOK L.S.D., MAGIC
MUSHROOMS, IWASKA, AND THE
SMOKED VINUM OF THE SONORAN
DESERT TOAD.
FIGURE THAT OUT.
>> Stephen: PROBABLY A
THOUSAND YEARS AGO SOMEONE
LIQUID A TOAD AND SAID COME LICK
MY TOAD.
( LAUGHTER )
BREAK IT DOWN WHAT THESE
EXPERIENCES DID FOR YOU.
>> THEY WERE REALLY INTERESTING.
I HAD VERY LITTLE PSYCHONAUT
EXPERIENCE.
>> Stephen: I LOVE A NEW WORD.
O THIS WAS VERY NEW TO ME
AND I WAS VERY NERVOUS ABOUT IT,
BUT IN THE END I HAD SOME REALLY
INTERESTING TRANSFORMATIVE
EXPERIENCES.
THE MOST MEMORABLE FOR ME WAS A
GUIDED TRIP ON SILISIBIN.
I SHOULD EXPLAIN HOW THIS WORKS.
THIS ISN'T JUST LIKE YOU MAY
HAVE DONE IN HIGH SCHOOL OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
NO, NO ONE YOU KNOW.
THIS ISN'T JUST TAKING THIS AND
GOING TO A CONCERT.
YOU'RE WORKING WITH A THERAPIST
OR A GUIDE WHO PREPARES YOU FOR
THE EXPERIENCE, TELLS YOU WHAT
TO EXPECT, WHAT TO DO IF YOU GET
INTO TROUBLE, IF YOU SEE
MONSTERS, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU'RE
NOT SUPPOSED TO RUN AWAY, YOU'RE
SUPPOSED TO STEP UP TO THE
MONSTER AND SAY, WHAT ARE YOU
DOING IN MY MIND AND WHAT CAN
YOU TEACH ME?
>> Stephen: DID YOU DO THAT?
DID YOU SEE ANY MONSTERS?
>> I SAW A LOT OF DEAD PEOPLE.
I SAW A LOT OF REALLY DISTURBING
IMAGERY, BUT I ALSO HAD SOME
WONDERFUL EXPERIENCES.
THE MOST INTERESTING, THOUGH --
I USE THAT WORD ADVISEDLY --
>> Stephen: BY THE WAY, WAS
EVERYTHING YOU WERE DOING
LEAGUELE?
>> NO.
>> Stephen: THAT'S ALL THE
TIME WE HAVE FOR YOU.
( PIANO RIFF )
>> NO, MY SENSE OF SELF FELL
APART.
IT WAS LIKE A BUNCH OF POST ITS
BEING BLOWN IN THE WIND.
>> Stephen: WHAT WERE YOU ON?
ILISIBIN.
>> Stephen: YOU WERE BLOWN
APART.
>> AND FOUND MYSELF SPREAD OUT
ON THE LANDSCAPE LIKE PAINT BUT
I WAS EXPERIENCING IT FROM A
VANTAGE THAT WASN'T MYSELF.
I KNOW IT'S WEIRD AND WE DON'T
HAVE THE FIRST-PERSON PRONOUN TO
EXPLAIN THIS, BUT WHAT IT TAUGHT
ME WAS THAT WE ASSUME WE'RE
IDENTICAL TO OUR EGO, THIS
CHATTERING VOICE IN OUR HEADS
TELLING US WHAT TO DO.
>> Stephen: AND SOMETIMES
CRITICIZING US A LOT.
>> AND CAN BE VERY HARSH, IT'S A
PERFECTIONIST, BUT IT ALSO
DEFENDS US AGAINST FRESH
EXPERIENCE, EMOTION, OTHER
PEOPLE.
>> Stephen: TELLS US TO BUILD
A WALL, MEXICAN BORED, ALL KINDS
OF THINGS.
>> IT IS THAT VOICE.
THAT DISSOLVED IN SUCH A WAY
THAT I FELT LIKE, OH, I'M NOT
IDENTICAL TO MY EGO.
THERE'S ANOTHER GROUPED ON WHICH
TO STAND AND TAKE IN REALITY.
>> Stephen: THAT'S SOUND LIKE
WHERE I WOULD LIKE TO LIVE.
>> YEAH!
AND IT'S REALLY THE IDEA THAT
THESE DEFENSES YOU'VE BUILT UP
OVER YOUR WHOLE LIFE, YOU DON'T
NEED THEM, AND THAT YOU CAN
LOWER THEM AND NOT FACE COMPLETE
ANNIHILATION.
>> Stephen: SO EGO SHOULD BE A
CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE.
>> YES, EXACTLY.
>> Stephen: BRILLIANT IDEA!
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING
HERE.
"HOW TO CHANGE YOUR MIND" IS OUT
TOMORROW.
MICHAEL POLLAN, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.
