>> David: This is "Marketplace."
Is your favourite concert
really sold out?
>> The fix was in right from
the get-go.
>> David: The truth
about tickets.
>> Prime Minister, how did you
get your tickets?
>> David: Why you're shut-out.
>> I was the biggest, baddest
guy who took all the tickets.
>> It's criminal.
>> It's legal because
of your government.
>> The odds are absolutely
stacked against the fan.
>> David: How to score the best
seats for the best price.
>> First row!
>> David: This is your
"Marketplace."
[ ♪♪ ]
>> Everyone's pumped to
see Canadian rock gods the
Tragically Hip.
[ ♪♪ ]
>> The Hip's farewell tour has
been sweeping the nation.
Gord Downie is battling cancer.
Everyone wants to say good-bye.
[ ♪ Singing ♪ ] 
>> Tickets!
>> David: Tonight in Kingston,
the band will be taking
the stage.
Could be the last time ever.
>> We sort of came of age with
these guys.
We sort of grew up with that
music, it was a really
important time for me.
It's just -- I'd like to be
here when it's done.
>> David: But Jeff Cameron
doesn't have a ticket.
He's not alone.
>> What do you think of that?
>> I think it sucks.
>> It is upsetting.
It is really upsetting.
>> Nobody got tickets.
>> David: Jeff was ready at the
Ticketmaster site but the
entire tour sells out
in mere minutes.
>> Obviously, where there's
a lot of demand it's going to
be a harder ticket to get,
but I think that --
I think it should be easier.
>> David: Is there too much
demand or is something else
going on?
Peter McClatchey thinks so.
Just minutes after selling out,
those same sold-out tickets
turn up on resale sites like
StubHub selling way over
the face value.
>> Everybody says there's 1500
tickets on StubHub or thousands
of tickets on StubHub all
jacked right up.
>> David: What's that tell you?
>> It tells me that the fix was
in right from the get-go.
>> David: Is the fix in?
We're not just talking
about concerts.
We're talking high-demand
sports, theatre, so many
Canadians trying to buy
affordable tickets strike out.
Time to find out why.
[ ♪♪ ]
>> We've come to Las Vegas,
a place that knows a thing
or two about playing the
odds and we're talking
to insiders to find out what
your chances are of scoring
that ticket.
On the Vegas strip, we need
a high roller who's lived
a high life.
Ken Lowson is
a notorious scalper.
>> I know how to get
your tickets.
>> David: Ken says in the game
of tickets, the deck is stacked
against the fans.
>> The whole system's rigged.
>> David: Now this shark's
sharing his secrets.
Coming clean for the
first time.
>> I was the biggest, baddest
guy that took all the tickets
and broke all the little
girls' dreams, yes.
I was that guy.
>> David: So how did he do it?
With special software
called bots.
[ ♪♪ ]
>> Virtual robots are programmed
to buy from official ticket
sellers like Ticketmaster.
The second the sale starts,
bots swoop in, feeding humans
to the seats.
A big reason why you strike-out?
Bots.
>> Our system was set up to hit
50 shows in one hour.
And buy all the tickets in
under two minutes.
>> David: Were you beating
the system?
>> It was like getting myself
first in line?
>> David: M'hm.
>> Sure.
>> David: And that allowed you
to buy tickets faster and buy
many more tickets than most
people could.
>> Many other factors for that,
but yes.
We made it so that you could
just hit one button and
you could buy a hundred
seats at once.
Yeah, we had the capability
of buying 15,000 tickets
in two minutes.
>> David: Ken snatched the best
seats to big events like U2,
the Rolling Stones and Barbra
Streisand and resold for huge
mark-ups, sometimes as much
as a thousand percent.
>> I was worth like $15 million
at 35.
>> David: He was living a rock
and roll lifestyle, partying
away the money, all at the
expense of the fans.
Are you not then getting in the
way of fans who actually want
to see something and are heart
broken when they can't?
>> Absolutely I was.
And I feel horrible about it.
>> David: Do you?
>> Yeah.
>> David: Really.
>> Since I got sober.
I'm a different person than
I used to be, okay.
>> David: No longer in the bot
biz, Ken says it's time to make
things right.
>> If you eliminate bots,
which is what I think needs
to be done.
>> David: Yeah.
>> Then the fans will have
a chance.
>> David: But bots aren't the
only reason why you don't stand
a chance.
Ken shows us where to find the
pros who have other ways
of snatching up seats.
>> This is the largest
convention.
There's another one.
>> David: This room in Vegas
is packed with brokers.
>> What's the difference
between scalping and brokering
in your opinion?
>> Nothing.
>> David: Brokers make a living
gambling on tickets they buy at
face value then resell online
to the highest bidder.
I'm David with CBC.
Eric Garland and Rafi Agalar
know how to play the odds.
How do you get your tickets?
>> I get my tickets like anyone
else gets their tickets.
>> David: Like you wait til 10am
on whatever day and --
>> I know when a show is going
on sale, I know about the
presale and I purchase
tickets, man.
>> David: Hold on.
>> I know about the presale.
>> David: That presale is
supposed to be reserved
for fan clubs and certain
credit card holders.
Another reason why you
strike out?
Brokers.
They bust in on sacred
territory to edge out the fans.
>> The Tragically Hip.
>> David: Yeah.
>> That was a huge show, the
last tour like they were ever
going to do.
The biggest thing that a broker
knows how to do is see when
tickets are undervalued.
For, you know, for like the
demand of the show.
>> David: A lot of people
wanted tickets, couldn't get
tickets and they disappeared
like that, right.
What's going on there?
>> Brokers, I mean.
>> David: How do those brokers
get the tickets?
>> I mean, I used ipads
and computers.
There's, you know -- 
>> If it's your full-time job,
you'll make sure you do
everything you can to get
as many tickets as you can.
>> David: Did you get tickets?
>> Tickets for?
>> David: Tragically Hip.
>> Yeah, I got tickets
to Tragically Hip.
>> David: How many tries did it
take you to get those tickets?
>> Yeah, I mean,
I feel like I'm --
>> David: Did you sell all your
Hip tickets already?
>> Yeah, I sold them all, yeah.
>> Maybe a lot of fans are
feeling it's not fair they're
not getting tickets, but you
just got to be quick, you got
to be ready to go.
>> David: Sure, but pretty
tough to beat brokers when
it's their full-time job.
[ ♪♪ ]
>> Time to find out if the
ticket giant is looking out
for the little guy.
We've come to Los Angeles.
We're talking to the people
who own Ticketmaster.
Live Nation, the biggest
promoter on the planet.
Hi.
David.
>> Nice to meet you.
>> David: Joe Berchtold
is chief operating officer.
Fans are frustrated that
tickets seem to sell out within
seconds of that general
on sale, they can't get their
hands on it, what's going on?
>> Well, there's a big problem
and the big problem starts
with bots.
Every year, we block about
5 billion bots trying to attack
our Ticketmaster system, even
if we're 99% effective, that's
a hundred a minute that get
through our system.
>> David: Yep, a hundred
a minute get in and get to buy.
Do you have a sense of how many
tickets to the Tragically Hip
tour the bots got?
>> We think for the Tragically
Hip tour bots got a third
of the tickets, other brokers
about a third of tickets.
And fans about a third
of the tickets.
>> David: Only a third of
tickets are actually avilable
to people because bots and
brokers get the rest?
>> Yeah, the odds are stacked
against the fan because so much
goes to brokers.
>> David: Did you cancel any
tickets that you thought were
acquired through bots?
>> I don't believe we cancelled
any tickets and, in general
speaking, we do not make
the decision.
We simply can't identify which
were the bot-purchased tickets
and which were the
fan-purchased tickets.
>> David: Would the Tragically
Hip know this?
>> Yes.
They don't know the exact
numbers but, yes, we were in
daily conversation with them
about what was going on.
We all share the frustration
with it but they also were very
clear they wanted to make sure
they weren't doing anything
that would damage any of their
true fans and rather than
shotgun and take that risk,
it meant that there weren't
tickets that we could cancel.
>> David: So if Live Nation
can't beat all the bots,
who can?
So what are the political power
brokers doing about bots
and brokers?
Time to get some answers.
This is your "Marketplace."
Get your "Marketplace," sign up
for our weekly newsletter
at cbcnews.ca/marketplace.
>> David: Busting the
ticket game,
this is your "Marketplace."
Ticket bots and brokers are
beating the fans, buying up
most of the seats to big events
like the Tragically Hip.
>> The game is still fixed.
>> David: In Kingston,
Jeff couldn't get a ticket
at face value.
>> Hey, guys, great to see you!
>> David: But look who did.
>> A perfect night!
>> David: Now he's got a ticket.
But you don't.
>> Exactly.
I'm pretty sure he didn't buy
his ticket from scalpers
and that's fine.
>> David: Let's find out.
Prime Minister, how did you get
your tickets?
>> I paid for them like
everybody else.
>> David: Who did you
buy it from?
Prime Minister, Ticketmaster,
did you get your ticket
through Ticketmaster?
Clearly Jeff doesn't have
the connections.
But if he really wanted
a ticket, he could buy from
sites like StubHub.
It's a marketplace where anyone
can resell their tickets for
big mark-ups, at least in the
case of the Hip.
>> Capitalizing on something
that's so tragic, you know,
sort of makes it that much
more unsavoury.
>> David: He's refusing on
principle, but Peter McClatchey
is desperate and buys.
You're right there.
What's the face value
of that ticket?
>> 90 bucks.
>> David: Okay.
And you're paying?
>> I paid 433 U.S.
>> David: U.S.?
>> The last thing I wanted to
do was pay these guys this
money, but I had no other
choice, I have to be at this
show so I bought the tickets.
>> Hey, folks, can I ask
a quick question of you?
Did anyone pay four figures
for a ticket?
You paid four figures
for a ticket.
Can I ask how much?
>> 1200.
>> David: Anyone else pay high
three figures for one ticket?
1200 a seat, U.S.
>> We're 750 a piece, U.S.
>> David: How many times over
the face value?
>> Seven.
>> David: Seven times?
>> Yeah.
>> When the resellers are
jacking it up to in the
thousands, that blocks a whole
bunch of people away from being
able to see their favourite
band or seeing art.
When you take the art away from
the people, that's a problem.
>> David: So how do those
prices compare to the
old-school scalpers?
Jeff checks it out.
>> Looking for one.
>> We got one.
1500 bucks.
>> 1500?
I don't think I can do 1500.
Can't do any better than that?
[ ♪♪ ]
>> David: But some tickets on
StubHub go even higher.
Check it out.
Up to thousands of dollars
for a ticket.
>> People are being robbed.
They're being ripped off.
>> It's criminal actually.
It's criminal.
>> David: Except it's not.
It's actually quite legal.
>> Is that right?
>> David: Yep.
Reselling tickets for profit
is legal in Ontario and
in most provinces.
>> They have made it so
lucrative and so easy for
online scalpers to get into the
marketplace and snap them up
so that the average person
doesn't stand a chance.
There's no way that should
be tolerated.
>> David: He's right.
[ ♪♪ ]
>> So we're going to talk to the
political power brokers who
open the floodgates in the
first place.
Back in 2015, the Ontario
government changed the ticket
scalping law to allow anyone
to resell for a profit.
As long as you can prove
the ticket is real or offer
a money-back guarantee,
you're good to go.
We've come to the Ontario
legislature to meet Attorney
General Yasir Naqvi.
>> I think many fans would be
surprised it's legal to do
something that was for a long
time was illegal and it's legal
because of your government.
>> It's ensuring that there's
protection, that there is
authentication around the
tickets, there's a money
back guarantee.
What I want to make sure
is that we deal with this
challenge of technology.
We gotta look at these bots and
see how we can prevent the bots
from taking place so we're
looking at those policy options.
>> David: Trying to stop bots
but what about the brokers,
those who are basically
preventing fans from getting
those tickets and then charging
those same fans double, triple,
or many times more?
>> Well, we're looking at those
policy options and I've asked
for that kind of analysis,
see what kind of options
are available to us.
>> David: So it's something
you're looking into?
>> Yeah, of course.
>> David: Do you think your
legislation is working doing
what it's supposed to do?
>> Well, clearly that example
shows that more needs to be
done and I'm committed
to doing that.
>> David: Two weeks later,
Naqvi announces he's going
to outlaw those ticket bots.
>> We want to ban bots
for selling tickets.
>> David: But since they can
operate from anywhere, policing
that will be a challenge.
[ ♪♪ ]
>> David: Meanwhile, at the
ticket conference in Vegas, Don
Vaccaro is tired of the brokers
taking all the heat.
>> There's a big misconception
that the brokers are the reason
fans can't get tickets.
>> David: Don runs his
own resale site,
The Ticket Network.
>> How you guys doing?
>> Pretty good.
>> David: And says it's time
for the music and ticket
industry to come clean.
What's happening that a minute
after tickets go on sale,
they're all gone?
>> Right.
So that's where
the fallacy begins.
Everybody in the industry knows
that most of the best tickets
for most of the shows are never
sold to the public.
It's the industry itself
holding back the tickets.
>> David: Yep, the best seats
are held back by VIPs like the
band and the promoter.
Next, tickets go to fan clubs
and certain credit card holders.
>> All consumers want to know
is where the tickets are going
and how to get good seats.
>> David: Yet another reason
why you strike out.
The average concert-goer
gets last pick.
Former Ticketmaster boss Nathan
Hubbard sure shed light on why
fans are screwed.
Wrote all about it online, says
by the time the actual sale to
the general public happens, 90%
of the tickets might be gone.
Really?
So what does this former
colleague Joe Berchtold from
Live Nation say about that.
>> That would be a real
extreme situation.
>> David: But it does happen?
>> But to have a third of the
tickets gone, sure, absolutely,
there are absolutely a lot of
tickets get sold through the
various -- so in our minds,
a fan club presale is generally
an open to the public event.
>> David: If I look at that
20,000-seat stadium, how many
tickets does the average fan at
the normal time have a shot at?
>> They might have a shot at 10
to 15,000 of those tickets, but
our concern is they don't
necessarily even have a fair
shot at those because you've
got the bots going after those
same tickets at that moment.
>> David: But even if there
weren't the bots, they might
only have a shot at half
of the stadium?
>> Depending on the show, yes.
>> David: Chasing the truth?
This is your "Marketplace."
You want to know which artists
are helping fans score seats?
Find out more on our
Facebook page.
[ ♪♪ ]
>> David: Your hot ticket?
"Marketplace."
[ ♪♪ ]
>> So, you have to figure,
hours before the Hip show in
Toronto, street scalpers would
be the only ones selling.
>> Get out of my face.
>> David: But apparently not.
Inside, people are lining up
at the ticket window.
>> They're trying to get
tickets for weeks and now all
of a sudden they've released
all these tickets.
I'm very confused.
I just want to get tickets.
>> I thought there was
none left.
>> So did I.
>> David: We're confused too.
So our researcher Sarah
hops in line.
To our surprise, the show
everyone thought was sold-out
may not be.
>> I have many friends telling
me right now you're wasting
your time down there, all the
tickets are sold out, meanwhile
I'm standing in a line to get
tickets at face value that are
available and nobody knows
they're available.
>> They seem to have some
more tickets.
>> David: After waiting in line
for over two hours, we're next.
>> Do you have any
tickets left?
>> I have 109 27 seat 6.
[ Cheering ] 
>> Did you get one?
>> Yeah, I did.
>> It's a good one, too.
>> David: All the seats are
selling at face value.
>> All right, Sarah, have fun.
>> Thank you.
>> Hip, hip!
You go on StubHub and
they're like 700 bucks for
the balcony, crazy.
>> David: Okay.
We're finally in.
Not a moment too soon.
[ ♪♪ ]
[ Cheering ]
>> But outside, still selling.
>> First row!
Whoooo!
>> Floor row 8.
>> Obviously, it's crazy how
they did it but I'm here,
I'm getting in.
>> David: What's going on?
>> It was sold-out but again
they always keep seats behind,
roughly, I'd say, about maybe
150, 200 tickets.
>> David: What, 200 tickets for
tonight's show?
And check it out, good seats
are still available.
>> Unfortunately, there's never
any really notice saying come
back on the day of.
>> David: Over an hour into the
show, still selling.
If you knew there were tickets,
wouldn't you be here?
What does Live Nation say
about that?
>> The Tragically Hip website
had no more tickets available
for the Toronto show.
But tickets were on sale in the
box office.
So does no more seats
mean sold-out?
Or can more seats
come available?
>> It does happen.
It does happen every day with
every tour that we have that
seats become available or
because of the other
distribution channels, if an
artist has held 20 seats for
family and friends and then it
turns out for that show they're
not coming and those seats get
released not in large numbers,
but those happen every day.
>> David: I guess if I was the
guy who paid a thousand dollars
and I see someone walking
by with a $50 ticket they
bought the night of,
I'd be a bit angry.
>> Sure.
>> David: Does sold-out always
mean sold-out?
>> Sold-out always means 95%
plus sold-out.
>> David: Sure enough,
there's last-minute seats
in Kingston, too.
>> Hello, can you hear me?
>> David: Jeff didn't get one
of those.
But he's no longer in need.
>> Oh, thank you very much.
I can't even begin
to thank you.
>> David: His wife didn't
listen, bought him
a ticket anyway.
>> I'll send you pictures, okay?
>> Send me pictures.
>> Okay, thank you very much.
All right.
>> Bye.
>> I'm in.
Awesome.
>> David: It's time to say
good-bye to Canadian rock gods
the Tragically Hip.
[ ♪ Singing ♪ ]
>> Outside, the nation watches,
a rare moment.
Remember, most fans who strike
out never get this chance.
[ ♪ Singing ♪ ]
>> Next week on "Marketplace,"
dumpster diving.
>> Okay, this will disgust some
people, but...
[ ♪♪ ]
>> David: What your supermarket
doesn't want you to see.
>> There's a whole lot of food.
>> David: Canadians trash $31
billion worth of food a year.
From big box stores to your
shopping cart.
>> I'm just going to throw it
out for you in advance.
>> No, no.
>> Why is seemingly-good food
thrown out in the garbage?
[ ♪♪ ]
