(mellow music)
- A couple of years ago, I was telling,
actually the very beginning
of my time at Berkeley,
I was telling a great friend
of mine about my research
and my thesis and these
amazing fMRI studies
that I saw and lamenting that
it would be just so great
if I had all the money in the universe
and I could get all these
school children from Tibet
and get them into fMRI machines,
and then do the same with the
cohort in the United States,
and check the volumetric
difference in their amygdalas.
And then do it again on
some longitudinal study,
it'd be really glorious.
My friend said a couple of
weeks later he went to a dinner,
Thursday night dinner
with this amazing woman
and she was working to develop
a portable MRI machine,
like super portable, like
portable in an ambulance
or out in the field,
maybe in Tibet or India,
in an ambulance, in
medical offices, back pack.
Then he mentioned that she
was one of the founders
for One Laptop Per Child.
And for those of you who don't know,
that's a non-profit
initiative with the goal
to transform education
in developing countries
by creating and distributing
low-cost educational devices
that have low power and were super sturdy.
And I was then instantly a super fan.
When I was 10, I saw on the
big screen R2-D2 open up
and it was projected by Princess Leia.
Does anybody remember that scene?
Nobody in that movie
theater was ever thinking
about any of the advances that would come
from the inspiration that our next guest
got at the same scene.
So she double majored in art
and electrical engineering
from Brown University.
She received her Master of Science
in computational holog,
holog, yeah.
it's about holographs.
Thanks for laughing,
from the MIT Media Lab
where she was later a professor.
She returned to Brown and
received her doctorate
in optical sciences.
Our speaker was an engineering
executive at Facebook,
Oculus, Google and Intel.
She is named one of our
times greatest thinkers
by some of the greatest
thinkers of our time.
She has founded four startups
and holds over 250 patents.
(audience applauds)
I know, right?
It's like she has superpowers.
While her CV lists many
of her accomplishments,
it will not reveal her
lifelong drive to learn,
understand and innovate.
And it will not reveal
her continual efforts
to use those superpowers for good.
Please join me in welcoming
our speaker, Mary Lou Jepsen.
(audience applauds)
- All right.
- Hi.
- Hello, you guys hear me?
All right, thank you so much Cara
for that wonderful introduction.
Well as you can tell,
it's going to be hard
to cover everything that Mary Lou has done
but we want to give you
guys a taste of her journey
and how she got to the
portable fMRI machine
that Cara was mentioning,
what she's working on now.
So Mary Lou can we start
a little bit by going back
to the beginning and maybe
you can tell us a bit
about your formative years.
What was it like where you grew up?
- I grew up in Connecticut,
but not the rich part.
I grew up in a farm in Connecticut.
It was violent, there were a lot of guns.
We had neighbors that shot at
us, they never went to jail.
My father got stabbed.
My father was an auto mechanic,
my mom taught high school.
- Great, and were there,
in your early life, were
there significant moments
you think maybe shaped who you are today?
- Yeah, I would say it was really violent
and I sort of withdrew into myself.
I really loved two things,
math and art.
And so I would basically do
those under my bed, it was quiet
and then I grew to like
this other thing, swimming,
because people could yell at you
while you were swimming
but you couldn't hear them.
And I liked the quiet.
So I became kind of a nerdy science kid
as a way of coping I think
with the chaos around me.
- That makes total sense.
And yeah, so it seemed
like then in your education
you did focus on engineering, math and art
and kind of this intersection.
And then eventually you were
very attracted to holography
and as Cara said maybe the Star Wars movie
was a big inspiration for you.
Later something I thought was
really cool that was in 1991,
you put on this big display
in Cologne, Germany.
And it only could be
seen for 10 minutes a day
for 55 days out of the year
and it filled a city block
in Cologne.
- Yes.
What was that like to work on that project
and where did this love for holograms
and holography come from?
- I liked optical things.
I mean I had a little, had a book I think,
it's called Thumbelina growing up
and it had this lenticular, these stripes,
these len stripes on it so it looked 3D.
And as a little kid, four or five,
I tried to scratch to get
inside of the 3D image
and I wrecked the optics, I made it worse,
I couldn't get inside and I
wanted to know how it worked.
So when I started college,
I majored in engineering
but I took an elective in holography.
And hopefully they're better now
but when I was an undergrad
at the time the music
you heard was coming out,
The Clash was very popular, the early 80s.
I thought the curriculum would have killed
any ounce of creativity I might have had
and I'm not saying I had
much but I started taking,
I took this holography class,
I'm like whoa this is pretty cool,
it's the closest thing to a
religious experience I ever had.
Like you made all this optical
stuff, you bolted it down
on this two-ton table
that floated on nitrogen.
You have these lenses set up,
these beautiful lasers going around.
You couldn't even, the
whole room was the camera.
It had to be completely dark.
You couldn't even breathe while
you're making the exposure
'cause nothing could
move more than a fraction
of a wavelength of light
relative to something else.
And then you take this piece of,
what's called silver halide film,
it's what used to be in cameras
and you had to develop it
and you develop it and
dry it with a hair dryer.
It would be this magical 3D scene
and I just like, I was hooked.
I'm like whoa, I don't really
like electrical engineering
the way it's taught but
I can sort of dive in
from this angle and learn
all I can about electronics,
computer science,
electricity and magnetism,
chemistry, human visual system,
coding, the whole thing.
And just, I sort of focused
on it from that lens
to get through it in a
way that I could love it.
- So when did you realize that
you could actually study this
in your formal education?
Did you always kind of know that
or when it did come, change
from being maybe something
you're interested in, the
hobby to you realizing
that you could actually study this?
- Oh, well my parents as I mentioned,
I grew up not wealthy and they said
they'd help me pay for the
best school I could get into
as long as I majored in
electrical engineering.
Today that might be computer science
and they were quite serious.
I wanted to be an English major,
I didn't know what I wanted to be
but I liked everything.
Like you, you're a Berkeley,
you're probably good at everything,
your test scores are off the charts,
you can probably do
whatever you want to do.
You just have to want
it, that's the problem.
And so what do you love
enough to pour yourself,
all of you into.
And so I had to get the
electrical engineering degree
or I would have had to pull out of school
but I tried to leverage it in this way.
But then the Media Lab,
the MIT Media Lab was starting up
and they had taken somebody,
just walked in with a
Polaroid shirt, it's amazing.
They had taken Steve
Benton out of Polaroid
where he worked with
the founder of Polaroid,
you guys probably don't remember Polaroid.
It was the Apple Computer of its day,
it was this super cool company.
But he came back to the Media Lab
to do a master's degree in holography,
and so I'm like whoa,
that's the cool place to be.
I applied, they let me in,
I had no idea I wanted
to go to grad school
but there was grad school in holography?
I was in, but there was no PhDs.
So anyway, I started moving around
and I thought I'd get a PhD in physics
and that optical computing
with deep learning neural nets
was gonna be the thing in the late 80s.
Oh my God, it was awful.
So then I ended up
putting my resume online,
this is like in 1990.
And some guy wrote back and I said hey,
do you want to be a
computer science professor
at the Royal Melbourne Institute
of Technology in Australia?
And I'm like yeah, sure,
send me the ticket.
And he did so I got on the
plane and went and did that
and I ended up in Cologne
'cause I got thrown out of Australia.
I've been completely exonerated,
really I didn't do anything wrong
but my visa wasn't renewed.
It was a misunderstanding, I
can explain if you want to.
But yeah, so this art school said
why don't you come be a fellow
because they had started
these multimedia art schools
in Germany and I ended up there,
sort of taking this
project I was working on
with an artist from Sydney
to make a lunar illuminated hologram
that filled Beach Cove.
And then when I was there I realized
well forget like the Sun or lunar,
why not just do the whole thing?
Like a real moonshot,
project video on the moon.
And so I started talking on
that when I went to do my PhD.
But diverted.
- That's amazing.
- But I like the art
stuff, it keeps me going.
- Do you think you would have studied art
if your parents had not--
- Oh, I got another degree in art at Brown
because I just took
the courses to kind of,
I joined a punk rock band,
I took, just to keep,
it really felt to me like I
was being squeezed into this
round peg round hole and
I actually wanted facets.
I don't know, I was rebellious.
I grew as a street
fighting kid, I don't know.
I didn't want to compress
myself in that way.
It was very isolating, very lonely.
I think like probably all of you,
we've been given a lot of
confidence that we're smart.
You're in Cal, you're smart, right?
You can probably do whatever you want
but like those first
couple of years of college
I thought were really tough
'cause everybody's, my high school,
like the mayor taught physics.
Their physics class was
basically a solar cooker
for a hot dog, it was
basically, so just ridiculous.
So I didn't have the same background
as my colleagues from a better school.
So it took me a while to catch up
but like I had confidence
but I needed to be
in love with something
to pour myself into it.
And I like, I happened to never really
take a math class until I got to college
'cause I was really good
doing it out of the book.
So I was doing calculus in seventh grade,
I was really good at it.
But the idea of somebody
deriving an equation on the board
and the students shouting out
the SIGNs of plus or minus,
I didn't understand why that,
I was used to digesting it
at my rate, not at the rate.
And so you have to learn things.
It took a couple of years.
- So it sounds like your
education was helpful
and gave you good skills
but you really needed
some kind of outlet in order
to actually apply and to learn.
- For me, to get,
I mean just inclined
planes don't do it for me
or solving for trusses,
it's just like I'd rather
solve a real problem
and I'm totally fine
to do the truss stuff.
I grew up in a farm, I never once saw,
I don't know if you guys
take static mechanics
and I had to (mumbles).
Never once saw a block go down
an inclined plane that way,
never once. (laughs)
I was pulling tractors out
of swamps all the time,
it never worked how it was supposed to.
And so I just thought it was all,
it was really hard to
get excited about it.
- Yeah.
- It was dry.
- Well, I think that--
- I don't know.
Yeah, I think so.
I think one thing many people in the room
are often thinking about
is the idea of risk, right?
As an entrepreneur, risk is
maybe one of the biggest things
that we're thinking about.
And you've done almost
everything career-wise.
You've been a CTO,
you've been a professor,
you've started companies.
So when you founded One Laptop Per Child,
you actually were at the MIT Media Lab.
Can you tell us a bit about
what it was like to found
One Laptop Per Child and how
you were able to take that risk
to leave MIT Media Lab
and being a professor
to start this company?
- Well, the bigger risk was
telling the CEO of Intel
which is I had been at the previous year
that the project they were spending,
call it $100 million dollars
a year was never gonna work.
'Cause Intel only has what's called
rail-to-rail processes and for this chip
that we were making to
be the best in the world,
we needed graded levels of
voltage, not just zero or high.
And so that killed the
project and then I thought
I'd never do commercial work again
and I applied to be a professor
at MIT and got a call.
And the founder had to
stay two days to meet
with the founder of Media
Lab, Nicholas Negroponte.
And this sort of 10-minute meeting
just for him to check
off on me as a professor
turned into a three-hour meeting
and we started One Laptop Per Child.
But I needed to start something,
and I got the faculty gig.
It's kind of like a safe lifetime gig.
I sold my houseboat in
Sausalito and moved there.
But I didn't find it it all
risky to do that startup.
My first startup I did
after having brain surgery
and I needed health care,
and we got some like,
this is us finishing my
PhD $4 million from DARPA.
So that seemed pretty low
risk and then I was the CTO
and then said look, I'll
join if I get to pick
the health insurance 'cause I
had a brain tumor in my 20s.
I'm fine.
I finished my PhD afterwards
and done all this stuff.
So the sense, but there's a stigma,
I just really had a brain tumor
or you start smart or not
and I have to take pills
every 12 hours since 1995 or I die.
So I care a lot about getting
good health insurance.
So that was a risk for me.
One Laptop Per Child,
we had like all this money to try it
and I also have this faculty geek.
Although I did have to
choose at one point,
the president of MIT sent me a letter,
do this sort of project manager thing,
that's what she thought
it was for $100 laptop
or be a professor.
And I sort of thought huh,
couple of dozen students,
couple of dozen papers
or the opportunity to transform
educational opportunities
for the children of the world.
We literally throw away half the children
that are born in the world
and they don't get anything
any of us would consider
to be an education.
So it was a pretty easy choice.
It's a nice way to get fired.
She's like, "Okay, get it out your system
"and then come back."
I'm like okay, so like even then,
it was like get it out of your system
and come back and do it and they just,
because it seemed even
though it's a not-for-profit,
it seemed like a startup and for ethical
and conflict-of-interest reasons,
both myself and the
director of the Media Lab
had to leave for a while.
I just didn't come back
because the not-for-profit
made a billion dollars of revenue,
catalyzed $30 billion of revenue
for our for-profit partners,
became the fastest-growing
consumer electronic category
ever recorded and transformed
the lives collectively,
between us and the for-profit companies
of 100 million children in the world.
And I was definitely, I'm just like well,
there are not enough MIT professors
sleeping on the factory
floors of the world.
I grew up in a farm, I
don't care, it's fine.
How do you make things
that can actually directly
transform people's opportunities in life
and we had just done
it, so I moved to Asia
and left MIT sadly.
It was 2008, I mean I woke up
every day for three years
saying I gave up being
an MIT professor to be
in this economic collapse
where R&D is all, it was just,
luckily Google bought
my company at the end.
But yeah, it was really rough.
That was risky.
- So there were some
points where you actually
did feel like some regret,
maybe like oh, maybe I
shouldn't have done this
and you weren't really sure
while you were on the...
- Well, I think at the end
of the startup particularly,
I'm always metaphorically
curled up in the fetal position
with a blankie and wanting
a bottle of tequila.
But then you gotta shake
it off, get up the next day
and figure out what you're gonna do next.
But you put all of
yourself into these things
and it doesn't always go right.
People remember the
successes, it's a cliche
but the failures really suck.
But yeah.
So OLPC was really, I thought
not much risk to do it
although I mean my mom
wanted to disown me.
Finally her daughter was this
respectful MIT professor,
she's like, "Why are you leaving?"
And I just felt I needed to do it.
So I had to give up MIT
to do it which was hard
because I really wanted to, I loved MIT,
I wanted to be at MIT as well.
But it's much more risky when
you put all of your savings,
you put your house up for mortgage,
you take millions of
dollars from your friends
as I did at the end of 2008
'cause I started this
company called Pixel Qi
where we were the, I mean I
don't know if you remember
Q3 2008 but the sky really
fell, it really fell.
And in Q4, on Sand Hill Road
like there were free drinks
in the fridge and the lights were on
but there was no money going out of that.
And I had just started this,
I just created this billion dollar thing
and I was commercializing
a lot of that technology
to get people, really low-power screens
that were sunlight-readable,
retinal resolution before Apple,
didn't have retinal resolution
that were in the lowest cost
laptop ever made by far.
They went into a $100
laptop that we shipped
that I designed and
architected and shipped
and delivered to high
volume mass production.
And so I got money but I had
to take millions of dollars
to my friends, I wanted my friendship.
It's interesting, somebody
was talking in the intro
about Thursday night dinner.
Brewster Kahle was one of my investors
whose Internet Archive and I
was not gonna lose their money
so at great personal costs,
I didn't see my family for,
I lived in Asia or on a plane
and it was really quite difficult.
It was Sisyphean, it was the
fabs that make the LCD screens
were running at negative 40% margin.
There were multi billion
dollar fines for price fixing.
The CEOs were going to jails in California
for the price fixing scandal.
By the way I had nothing to do with it,
I was a professor during that time.
You couldn't hire a sales guy,
you had to go to the
DOJ website to find out
if they were under
indictment for price-fixing.
And literally all of them
were under indictment
and so you had, it was awful.
But Sergey Brin really
liked what I was doing
and hired the company.
So I got to work for Sergey
Brin at the end of it who was,
Sergey Brin is a co-founder
of Google with Larry.
So that was good.
In the end, but it was five years, hell.
- Well, what do you think
that your biggest learning was
from that experience then?
What did you learn that maybe you applied
in your next startup?
It sounds like you--
- Closed the company earlier. (laughs)
I didn't want to lose the
money from my friends but
it nearly destroyed me I think.
It was very painful in a way
that my first two startups weren't
because even though we
were shipping product.
Like we'd have these
contracts, really good deals
in sales and so forth.
And then literally go into a meeting
and they're like go ahead,
sue us, we're broke anyway,
I'm going to jail next week, I don't care.
I found myself like riding my bike around,
figuring out where that
executive's kid played soccer.
I wasn't really stalking, I'm just like,
oh, Junior plays soccer
here, by the way, that deal,
can we do this and stuff?
It had to be in a minute,
handshake and like,
now I know all the executives,
the good part about is I know
the executives all over Asia
and how to renegotiate fast
because just a handshake at that point,
because they're not gonna sign anything,
we can get something out of it.
And I had to figure that out
to try to save the company.
That was hard.
I know all the bike paths in Taipei now.
- So closing earlier, since
we're here in Berkeley,
we have a lot of students
who want to do like
social impact startups and ventures.
Is there any other advice
that you would give to them
about starting a social impact venture?
- Yeah, you probably have the idea
how do you get the money.
And I would say what I do
is they think of this crazy fun idea
of something I want to do,
and I start telling everybody
I'm gonna do it.
And you have to be
willing to have them think
you're stark raving mad,
you just have to be willing.
Like everything I've
ever done of any note,
when I first voiced it, people
thought I was stark raving.
So if they think that, great,
you're on the right track.
They're even a little bit jealous.
And take the feedback.
What you have to hear is
like oh, that'll never work.
They can say that but
would be really helpful
is if you can ask them why it won't work.
And then they might have some good points
and write them down.
Like I remember in the $100 laptop days,
I was over with a very
very very large maker
of consumer electronics,
like very very very,
I know you're not supposed
to say it but huge,
and the Chairman wanted
to see me so I flew over
and saw the Chairman and
walked into this room.
He was flanked by four EVPs on one side,
four EVPs on the other side
and they just started laughing at me.
It was just me on the other
side, I still wore a suit.
I can't tell the country but oh no,
it would be obvious if I
said the name of the country.
And they just started laughing
and they're like $100 laptop, hahaha,
it will never work.
And I realized I was actually
the humor portion of their day.
And so the women in the
audience will like this.
I pulled out a notebook and I'm like okay,
tell me why it won't work
and I did at least take notes
for the next hour and a half.
At the end of the hour and a half,
there were like 21 things on the list.
I'm like 16 of these, totally
solved but these new five,
these are really good.
(mumbles) you guys know
a lot about laptops,
of course you know a lot about laptops,
you know a lot about manufacturing,
you know a lot about the
whole end-to-end thing.
Here's what I'm gonna do as I proposed
to the chairman of this
extremely large company
with the eight executive
vice presidents in the room.
I was gonna take it back to the team,
the team, that was just me.
They did not need to know that,
and we were gonna chew on 'em for a while
and could we come back
and have some dialogue
in the next three months,
see how we got through it.
It was very good for face.
And then I realized
whoa, this is a great way
to get people and this is
to answer the question,
to debug your idea on paper.
It's so much easier.
Everybody says build
something first, deploy it.
It's actually way easier to
think about it on paper first
with people that have
expertise in different aspects
of what you're trying to do,
'cause they can debug it really fast
and can save you a whole bunch of time.
So I started arranging for meetings
with every high-level
executive I could get
to call me back and basically,
I think in three months later Kofi Annan,
the then head of the United Nations
unveiled my hand-soldered
prototype with $100 laptop
at the United Nations Summit
on the digital divide.
And at that point there after,
almost every head of state on earth
wanted the laptops en mass
through the ministries of
education in their countries
to distribute to the
children like text books.
And so that was enough at that point
to show sales and marketing
for the manufacturers who had
laughed in my face just
three months earlier
and say, "Whoa, we could move
a lot of product this way."
And that design is really solid.
The CTOs said they trusted
it, yep, it'll work.
So, you have to ear the negative feedback
and just view it like a
lawyer, like an engineer,
just write it down, like
it's just problem solving,
simultaneous problem
solving of all these things.
And so that's what I would
do is just tell everybody.
And if it's really a fun crazy project
if you tell people about
it, kindred spirits,
will be the path to your door 'cause
they wanna work on it too
and they're gonna be good
at this other thing that you're not
and then you can do it together
and it's less lonely, somebody
else can point out a thing.
That's how I'd kinda do everything.
You just start with this crazy idea
but you have to be willing
to let people laugh at you,
it's okay, it's part of
the process, I think.
- That's so interesting.
Yeah, I think that, not
to stereotype engineers
but sometimes engineers might
jump to building something
right before they even
see if people want it
or see if there are customers for it.
So since that initiative this is
how you've developed your
ideas for all of your ventures.
You've told people who you
think might be interested
and if they're not laughing at you,
then maybe your idea is not big enough?
- Yeah, exactly.
It has to be really big.
I mean what's really this
latest thing that I'm doing,
I really wasn't sure I'd left Facebook
to pursue we'll talk about
later, this project I'm doing.
And I wasn't sure if I should
go back to the University,
if it should be a not for profit,
if I should stay and do it at Facebook.
But it just really seemed like a swing
for the fences, venture
capital kind of thing
and that we could get
to scale if successful
so I decided to create it as
a startup for that reason.
It matches well with what
venture capital needs to do
with its structure.
Like they need 10X, 100X returns.
They make all their money out of,
as Reed Hoffman writes,
he's like what are the three
companies starting this year
that will actually of
the thousands, the three,
that will actually matter in seven years
to his top line, bottom line.
And there are only three
so he needs to be in more than three.
But that's what venture capital works on
and so they're gonna bet on you
if you have an opportunity to do that.
Now if you're doing social good,
here's the really interesting thing
about venture capitalists.
It's not just about money,
they're totally happy
to do social good too.
They'd love for it to work,
especially it doesn't end
up being one of those three
and it's providing great
return for humanity.
That's fantastic, if it can
even just do 2X, 3X, 10X,
that kind of thing, it's also awesome.
Everybody focuses on the
top ones but you can work
in that structure in a VC structure.
They might not fund
you if they don't think
you can be one of those three,
but if you fall short as thousands do,
you can still have an interesting business
that delivers a lot of good for humanity.
And they're really great
with that actually.
- That's really interesting.
Thank you for sharing that.
Okay, I think we want
to move on a little bit
to some of your experiences.
You have had a lot of
interesting experience.
So for example, you were
head of the display division
at Google X which is Alphabet's
kind of moonshot factory
for developing innovative ideas
such as the self-driving car for example.
So can you tell us a bit
about your experience
at Google X and really how
did innovation work there?
And how was it different than a startup?
- Unlimited money.
- That's helpful.
- It's not, I actually think
the data says otherwise.
The unlimited money means
a lack of discipline.
And Bell Labs is the exception
to the rule, not the rule.
If you look at these places,
Xerox PARC, Interval Research,
I don't want to ever
diss my former employer
but if you look at the impact
of the venture capital funding model
versus this big corporate
labs, it's undeniable.
With the exception being
Bell Labs historically.
But at that time there
really wasn't much VC
when that was really
inventing the transistor
and all this, Bell Labs
was the Google of its day
that just basically printed money from,
it was a monopoly
and actually got killed
for being a monopoly.
I don't know how much
your background but like,
so they had an amazing
R&D, legendary R&D effort
with lots and lots of Nobel prizes
and incredible work that
has had wide-ranging impact.
But I would say I'm
actually more comfortable
in executing something
that can change things,
and for part of that you do
need this discipline rather than
and I think it's Google X on some level
was about Google now
called the mother company,
it's now part of as you said Alphabet
'cause it was in Google but,
yeah, it's called Alphabet now.
We don't have to go
through that transition.
I think it was about Google Alphabet,
getting good at hardware.
And so attracting extraordinary
talent in hardware
by letting them do these
audacious moonshot projects
to beef up the talent.
But part of it was Google learning
how to get good at hardware.
They were good at data centers
but the hardware and
stuff that we're talking,
consumer electronics,
cars, stuff like that
has taken longer and
it's a large organization
getting good at that I
think is another value.
But I found it way easier to have impact
working through a VC structure.
- Yeah, kinda reminds me how sometimes
startups can thrive when they actually
put on more constraints
on their project, right?
So is that kind of the discipline
that you're referring to
of they have so much money
so they can kind of do anything,
so there's nothing to constrain them
to actually focus on different (mumbles).
- Physics has to win not just,
it's not even that.
There are really are equations
and you can really
write them on the board,
and even though everybody doesn't know
what the five syllable words mean,
there aren't like the notion of generalist
and the fungible computer scientist
is very very powerful
in software startups.
But that's not going to,
make the new car engine or the...
They're a bunch of different things
that you have to know about
to drive what the correct direction is.
And I'm sorry, there's
a lot of detail in it.
Yes, you have to be generalist
but you have to have
this deep expertise in the
stuff I was doing in optics
and physics and electronics to lead you
to the correct direction.
And I think there was...
By nature I think in the big
software ate the world, right?
So the decisions are made by people
who have made the most
successful businesses
pick a time, certainly
last 150 years, whatever.
And so they're sure they're right
but actually what they're really
good at is something else.
And so I just would rather,
I mean the math and science
have to lead on the decision-making
for what's doable or isn't
because it can take you three
years to make a prototype.
You can't just, at Facebook
literally somebody changes
two lines of code, ships
it out to a million people,
if it doesn't break anything,
it's out to a couple of billion people
by the end of the week, old school.
Maybe it's different
now, I'm not there now.
You can't do that with hardware
'cause there's this fundamental
thing about hardware.
It seems obvious when I say it.
You can't change it
after you ship it, can't.
And that means the way you structure
the design and development
is quite different.
And so that I think is
a hard thing for the,
I mean they're great, I
had a great time there,
it was great.
Really nice after all those tough,
Japan days and Taipei.
I was very very grateful to Google
and thank you for letting
me pay off my mortgage
and my house and all the,
it was like oh great.
Yeah, for me it's better
and more entrepreneurial.
I'm more of a street fighter
and that's also like,
so googly and I don't know, I tried.
But it's okay, it's okay
if you're entrepreneurial.
I like it when the big
company buys my company
and then I'm there for a
couple years to hand it over
and then I go back to be entrepreneurial.
It's more where I'm comfortable
and it just depends.
Different people are
good at different things
and it's fine, we need all
different types of people.
- So you mentioned Facebook.
So maybe we should just
jump to talking about them.
So yeah, you worked at Facebook as well
and you were the executive
director of Oculus at Facebook,
of engineering, so yeah.
So maybe how was the
culture like at Oculus?
And VR and AR has notoriously
been kind of a small market
since it's been around, what
is the future of VR and AR?
- Right, the biggest
moneymaker in entertainment
is first-person shooter games.
As I mentioned, I grew up with guns.
So and I was working with people.
But every night, what they
did for fun is go home
and virtually shoot the
crap out of each other.
It wasn't really the culture
for me, I'm just gonna say.
So like I was not fine.
I was a teenager but I was
interested in other things.
So VR and AR, what's happening with it?
In some level, I've been working on it
since the 80s and holography
for things with surgery,
air traffic control, be
anywhere with anyone at anytime
is what it can enable.
But there are four major
problems that are preventing
the mass adaptation of VR and AR.
And one is the headset or
whether it's telepathic
or contact lens or an implant,
or the one thing that's
acceptable to wear in your face.
And this really has to
be this form factor,
not a shoe box, that's one.
Two is the space, the
mapping of the space.
So when I touch this chair,
my finger hits the chair.
Not an inch above, not an inch below.
That's the mapping of the space.
Three is how you interact.
Like voice, yes, voice
has gotten so much better,
maybe that's the thing, gesture.
It's no longer keyboard
and mouse or touch screen.
That doesn't make any sense in VR.
So there's that making
that interaction as natural
as our interaction is.
So it's a lot of gestures
and body language
that needs to be subtly caught.
And then four, what is
the content that passes,
sorry, Larry Page, CEO
of Alphabet has this rule
when you pitch a product to him,
has to pass the toothbrush test.
Which means people have to use it
once or hopefully twice a day.
And so what is the content
that's gonna get people
in to VR and AR in a way that they love it
and need it the way you
use toothbrush or more.
That's at least six
minutes a day of oral care
you're following dental guidelines
I think, maybe it's more, I'm sorry.
Flossing and the whole thing.
Right, so what is that?
And so those are for really hard problems
and there's a lot of a lot of effort on it
but it's gotten a lot better.
But given the tens of billions
of dollars of investments,
people are calling it
VR AR winter right now.
I saw another company,
its name escapes me went
out of business this week
but nobody's really executed on the money.
The big companies may keep (mumbles) on
'cause if Apple's doing
it, Google has to do it
and Facebook has to do it
and Microsoft has to do it
because they don't want
somebody else to get it.
So there's a lot of talent
working on the long term efforts
and so some things can come out.
There's certainly great niche
stuff, fantastic niche stuff
for a lot of stuff in hospitals.
Treating burn victims, treating,
people, psychiatric stuff.
There's tons and tons of stuff like that
that's really useful
although it takes a long time
to get through FDA.
But the big companies,
they have the reserves
to get through it.
The question is how do you solve
all four of those problems?
The thing that I observed at Facebook
was that the 3D sensing stuff
that's now in every iPhone
and most other smartphones
was going to give,
does give, it's like
coming a few years ago
an opportunity for something I thought
was much more interesting than VR and AR.
And honestly it's because I've
been thinking about VR and AR
for 30 years and if
you ever get like that,
"Oh, the young people"
like it's all magical
to them, switch fields.
Don't be a party pooper.
It's new for somebody else
and maybe they can find it
but maybe you need to go do something new
'cause yet another young
20-something would come
into my office and tell me,
gasping about what the future was
and like yeah, that was true
and they could tell you
every paper from the 70s
and 80s and the 90s,
and here were the five problems then
and how are you gonna
solve these five problems.
Let them go and do it
but I noticed that these
camera chips are coming out
with very very high efficacy
in the near infrared light.
And your bodies were translucent
to near-infrared light
and what was cool about these camera tips
since they had pixels the size
of the wavelength of light.
And I thought that could
be incredibly disruptive
to allow us to see inside of our bodies
and brains and telepathically communicate
and diagnose cancer and heart disease.
My life was saved by an MRI
and nearly didn't have it
because it's too expensive,
I didn't know I needed it.
But somebody sprung for the
cost of it and so I got to live,
a brain tumor I mentioned
before was found.
And the cost of MRI hasn't
changed in the 25 years
since my brain tumor was
diagnosed, and I nearly died.
I dropped out of my PhD in
physics to go home to die.
I was living in a wheelchair,
sleeping 20 hours a day,
body full of sores, on and on and on.
Anyway so it's still
expensive and I thought wow,
the number of people working
on VR and AR is not a problem.
They don't really need me.
Yeah, I got some expertise
but nobody sees this thing.
So I went off and said huh, what can we do
with this manufacturing
process development
that tens of billions
of dollars were spent
to make these manufacturing
process improvements,
to make these camera chips with
very small pixels and high,
it's called quantum efficiency.
Light to electrons, you want
photons converted to electrons
at a high rate, that's
called quantum efficiency.
And they cost a buck and
they're in your iPhone
and what can we do to basically
rethink medical imaging
and also seeing thoughts
using these chips?
And we've now architected new chips
and we're well on our way.
But I just sort of,
it becomes like...
It's pretty crowded (laughs)
and I think that's the problem.
I think I'm entrepreneurial
so I like to go off in these new spaces.
- Yeah, let's talk about Openwater.
So yeah, so you recognize that personally,
the fMRI can have a big
impact and can save lives.
And then you also
recognize this technology
that maybe could be used for this.
So when did you recognize
that this was something
that you want to work on and yeah?
- Oh, I didn't know with infrared
but this is what I pitched
for my professor job in MIT in 2005
and then I started and like
I can get the $100 laptop to work faster.
It's what I pitched to Sergei
that got him to acquihire
my company was pitching
let's do brain-computer
communication non-invasively
and I presented this idea.
And he acquihired my company.
And I show up, I'm like
great, we're gonna do this
he's like no, no, no,
consumer electronics people
are kind of boring and
I wanted to make sure
you were creative but I need
you to do this other stuff.
It was great, I was happy
to do this other stuff.
I can tell you about it too.
But then Mark Zuckerberg
really wanted to meet
and something happened at Google
that I was kinda angry at.
It's 'cause I'm so loyal
and then I'm like okay,
I'll have dinner.
And then Mark somehow
figured out my comp pack
and put a zero, a 10X on my compensation.
I thought Google paid
really well, they did.
So it was like well, they
were kind of buying me
as a person, I'm like and
I started to tell Mark
about brain computer
communication and I swear
his feet didn't touch the ground
for the rest of the dinner.
And then I'm like, "Okay, I'm going."
And he made me text Sergei
right there, so I did.
I'm like okay, I'm doing it.
But then I started he's like look,
we really are spending a
lot of money on VR and AR,
nobody's really shipped anything.
We need somebody that's
shipped consumer electronics,
it's distinguished by the
optics and the displays.
So that's what Facebook needed me to do.
So you start with these ideas
but then the reality
of economics and again,
I was being extremely well
paid and very happy to help
but there's so many people coming into it,
I thought I should go over here
and I could do more good over here.
So I spent a year working alone
'cause I didn't know if it
had legs and then I got it.
And then another company,
a year by myself,
two years with people and we're now,
you can look at our website.
We have images that rival
MRI and we've shown,
I showed live on stage at TED
focusing through skull
and brain to the diameter
of a neuron where we could read
and potentially write
neuron states as well
with this non-invasively.
No surgery, I've had brain surgery,
hardest thing I did in my life I know.
I go to this brain computer
interface conferences
and everybody's cracking
up at the sky I'm showing
and I'm like I don't
think it's a big market.
When it actually comes to it,
you're gonna do it if you're gonna die
but otherwise you're gonna
wait for a later generation
I'm pretty sure.
So non-invasive plus
there's the privacy issue
of never being able to
take it out of your brain.
Again I've been at Facebook,
they had some privacy issues,
makes those seem small when you think
about your innermost thoughts,
and that last bastion of privacy.
So anyway, so working on that
and really what that also enables us,
we use focused ultrasonic pings as well.
And it turns out if we focused
these ultrasonic pings for longer,
we can do surgery without the knife,
we could cure diabetes, we could
fix broken bones instantly,
we can go through the blood-brain barrier,
we can deliver on chemotherapy
doses at the correct dose
but with 100X lower amount of chemo
bathing through your system
'cause we can ultrasonically burst them.
So what we're talking about
is actually ultimately
a hospital in the box.
It's sort of like if you think
of SpaceX as an innovator,
they're going to Mars, not dying on impact
but they're making the
money launching satellites.
So we're starting with medical imaging
but our Mars is the whole thing,
like brain computer interface,
surgery without the knife, all of that.
But starting with the thing
I think three-quarters of
humanity lacks access to
which is how we diagnose diseases.
We diagnose them later,
it's more expensive,
more pain and suffering,
less good outcomes
so getting earlier lower
cost medical imaging
without radiation is what we're starting
on first for products.
- So what are some
challenges that you have
then moving forward 'cause this sounds
like an awesome startup and
I know that you're growing,
what are some challenges that
you're working on right now?
- Well, the biggest challenge
that emerged this summer
was the laser, kind of the specs on the,
we use basically three
major new components.
We developed a laser, a
new kind of camera chip
and a new kind of ultrasonic chip.
The ultrasonic and
camera chips can be made
in the silicon fabs of Asia.
The laser ultimately can be,
but it was getting pretty
expensive and pretty big.
So we beefed up the laser team,
we've got this extraordinary laser team.
We even have like a Nobel
Prize winner in laser physics
as an advisor, we've got a bunch of,
and we've worked on lowering the cost
and several different laser approaches.
Because one of the things about the laser
is nice to have, it's a pulse laser.
So it pulses almost like
a flash and a flash camera
when at night and so, it also has to have
a very very very fine color
or what's called line width.
And so we've spent a lot of effort on that
and made some huge progress
from a systems perspective
in reducing the difficult
specs for the laser
in ingenious ways.
These patents aren't mine.
They're from incredible incredible people
that we have come
together to make Openwater
that I get to work with
every day who are just,
I mean it's just astonishing
to walk in, hear the ideas.
I was working in the lab this afternoon
and got to hear about
even a new invention.
There's a guy that started last week
and it's just so interesting
to see how we come together
in this multidisciplinary team
to sort of solve the problem.
Basically we're cost downing
and shrinking it right now.
Cost down service.
My Chinese-English but
lowering the cost profile
even of the prototypes.
So we'll have alpha kits this year.
We're scanning live rats
this back half of the year
and we're working on
the cost down and laser.
Those are the three
challenges in front of us
and then we're looking
at development partners
who know more about,
it's like the balkanization
of the healthcare industry.
Everybody goes to the
same medical imaging suite
in the hospital but all the departments
are based on body part like knee or breast
or heart or head or nose or ear.
Literally there's a whole
set of different doctors
for each body part, it's amazing.
So knowing the ins and
outs of end to end facts
and how the nurses are using it,
how the reimbursement happens,
health, bla bla bla bla.
So we're working with
and attracting companies
who were working on development with them.
So that's what we're doing with them now.
- Great, well thank you so much.
I think we have some students
that will want to ask some questions.
- [Cara] Yeah, I mean I think Mary Lou
will answer almost any question.
So I would love to actually see
if there any questions in the back.
We usually start in the front.
So I'll let you all think a little bit.
Yeah, fantastic, coming over there.
I only have one microphone
but if you would just state your name
and what you're focused on
in terms of academics or not.
- [Linus] Hi, my name is Linus Lee.
I'm studying CS as an undergrad.
You mentioned Bell Labs at some point
in the middle of the session
and you've also worked
at Google X and these
other sort of researchy
but also focused on like investing
a lot of capital, a lot of resources
into bringing new technologies forward.
What do you think is the
thing that set Bell Labs
apart in its ability to create
basically all the infrastructure
that underlies technology today versus,
the amazing but not
quite incredible things
that X and these other
laboratories are doing?
- I think 'cause VC didn't exist.
I don't wanna diss Bell
Labs but there was no other,
I guess there was IBM research.
It was they were pouring
money into the best brains
they could get.
This structure I think has been replicated
but I think it had to do with the time
in that nobody else was pouring money
but there are people that, in this room
that I'm looking at that know
way more about Bell Labs,
the guy with the blue thing
over there for example.
In summary, I think it was
the time where Xerox PARC
tried to do it but...
Steve Jobs got to visit
and stole them out.
There's this famous book,
Fumbling the Future,
how they invented all this stuff
for personal computing
revolution, refused to ship it
because there's also
this tendency of that.
I can talk to you more about it later
and recommend a few books,
but not my area of expertise.
Sorry, maybe it's yours?
- [Keith] No, thank you. (laughs)
- Oh, my name is Noui, I'm from Paris.
I'm doing grad studies in
entrepreneurship here at Berkeley.
I was just wondering if,
like what's your take
maybe like to have...
Would you see the future
of medical imagery
being in holography?
Since you've been working in holography,
would you like see some
pretty good advantages
to having holographic medical
images and using them?
- Sure, what we're doing,
it's interesting in Bell Labs,
Dennis Gabor invented
holography at Bell Labs
but it was an information theory thing.
Not just capturing the intensity of light
but the phase of light 'cause
you can view light as a wave
and that interferes.
And by capturing the interference
you have more information
and that's what we're using
with near-infrared light
where there's a hundred
years of predicate products
using near-infrared light
to see inside of the body,
approved by the FDA with
really really lousy resolution.
People use something
called ballistic light
which is the light that
doesn't get scattered.
But here's the problem,
X-rays go through your body,
gamma rays, two-ton magnetic
fields and near-infrared light
and red light.
Actually if you take your camera
out, turn on the flashlight
and put it over your finger
you're gonna see red light
going straight through.
You can just do it right now.
Guess which one is far
cheaper, the red light.
The problem is no one could figure out
how to descatter the light.
And when I saw what was
coming down the pike
for 3D sensing, for VR and AR,
with micron sized pixels,
that's the size of the
wavelength of light,
I was just like oh shit, sorry.
Oh my God, like you
could record a hologram
and then mathematically
descatter the light
before you transform.
So sorry, with like, just
mathematically decode that image
of the interference structures
from an information theory.
Yes of course we can do it in 3D,
we can throw it in VR and AR.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been
doing 3D for like 30 years,
yeah yeah but the hard part
is that an MRI still cost more than $1,000
and the cost structure
would take this full stage,
this is the most expensive
room in the hospital.
If you take a CT scan, you
can only have 10 of them
or your chance of cancer goes up to 6%
from the CT scan itself.
We could actually treat
diseases much more differently.
For example the most expensive disease
for every country of the
world is brain disease.
And we use a subjective
measure of brain disease
like you basically answer these
questions, it's called DSM,
depression's a huge one.
Typical depressed person
loses 12 years of employment
for depression and they
answer these questions.
Subjective questions.
Are you eating a lot?
Have you gained weight?
Are you sleeping a lot?
Do you have thoughts of suicide?
If you answer yes to that
and a litany of questions,
that's the definition
of clinical depression
and you're out of it when
you stop answering yes.
And instead if we can MRI
them, we can look at a pattern,
what type of depression,
how the therapy is working
and how it's getting better and worse
but you can't do that right
now 'cause it's too expensive.
For example breast imaging,
we use mammography.
Half of women have dense breast tissue
and you can't diagnose
until stage 3 typically.
So that means the woman
takes a year off from work,
goes through chemo fog,
it's really expensive.
Why don't we just do an MRI?
We know we would save,
the death rate would go down in half.
We don't do it 'cause it's too expensive.
It's the single reason,
it's how we diagnose all
kinds of cancer and diseases
as seen inside of our bodies.
So it just seems, I don't know,
yeah, we can put it in 3D.
The radiologists love
to see all the noise,
the surgeons love the 3D, it's okay.
They can all have the version software.
We can give them whatever they want,
they should be happy
and the machine learning
is better than the radiologists.
It's a coding input, we like radiologists,
we want everybody, let's
get the tools to everybody.
But yeah, I mean it's really interesting
to see if we can get these
tools out to all the people
that can use them faster.
- [Ishal] Hi Ms. Jepsen my name is Vishal.
I'm a first year studying computer science
and one of the questions I had for you is
when you're doing social
good projects or sorry,
when you're doing social
good projects or startups,
there's a lot of emphasis on impacts.
So I wondering how do
you measure your impact
and then also kind of related to that,
I think you mentioned that at Openwater
your grand idea is to be able to,
your final solution is not
what you're currently implementing.
Right now you have your imaging business
which is mainly funding the company.
So I was wondering are
you guys like still,
are you guys mainly
funded by that business
or by VC funding or yeah.
- Are we getting, sorry,
are we getting what by what?
It's just, eat the mic.
- [Ishal] Sorry, okay, that's better.
Yeah, so basically my question was
how do you measure your impact
in your social good startups and projects?
And then also for example in Openwaters,
you were mentioning how you
have an imaging business
that's mainly funding the company.
So I was wondering are
you mainly funded by that
or by VC funding?
- Oh right, we don't have a product yet
so we're pre-revenue, meaning
we're just spending money
the VC invest in us.
But the fastest way, we can start,
the way I measure impact is in this case
diagnosing conditions of people.
In the case of OLPC
was getting the laptops
with the Internet to the kids.
We won a lot of awards.
The biggest reward by far was
getting the laptops to kids.
I remember the first kid that wrote to me,
his name was Badmas, he was in Nigeria.
He got a prototype laptop and
he wrote to me and he said
I love my laptop more than my life.
I wrote back to that note 'cause I'm like
that's kind of screwed up, right?
And then I wrote to Badmas
and he was a poor kid,
he didn't have the school
fees or the uniform
but he swept up in the,
and he wasn't allowed to be a full student
but they gave him a laptop anyway.
Actually Badmas's situation,
totally healthy response, I thought.
So I became a penpal with Badmas
who's now in college actually.
And so here's the thing is like the impact
is like on the lives changed,
transformed in a positive way.
Now yeah, VC wants to
get their money back.
If there was any innovation
in medical imaging,
this would actually be hard,
but it hasn't changed in 25 years.
Could you imagine in consumer electronics,
the price and size of something
the same as like 1995?
That would be nuts.
So that's how we measure impact.
There's lots of studies to
measure impact but for me,
that's the thing that
really means the most to me,
is the human change.
And by the way, it's really
I should say the life cycle
and particularly as we enable
brain computer communication,
I just want to point out we're
not the only living things
with brains on the planet.
And we might start collaborating with them
and stop eating them.
It's possible.
Maybe one will get into Berkeley.
How long will it take?
I mean seriously, it's in reach.
Can we make that faster?
Think of diversity then.
Berkeley could lead on this.
- [Keith] Go Bears, right?
- [Yura] First of all, thank
you for sharing your story.
My name is Yura studying
economics at Berkeley.
What makes you keep
motivated after undergoing
so many difficulties and success?
- Well, I think as I
mentioned quite honestly,
I have to take a dozen
medications a day or I die,
and I don't always think about this.
But sometimes it's really hard to get them
and sometimes I look, I put
them all in the same bottle
'cause it's easy to carry around.
I look down like if I
don't take these I die.
So what do you want?
We're alive now, what do you
want to do when you're alive?
And so I actually have
to face that more often
than most people but in fact,
any of us could walk out,
I hope this doesn't happen,
get run over by a bus tonight.
It could happen and we
somehow forget that.
And the big secret which
shouldn't be such a secret
is every single one of us is gonna die.
We just don't know when,
so what do you wanna do now
'cause now it's the moment.
So that's what I try to focus on.
But yeah, there are tough
days and really tough days.
Sometimes I have a
couple of glasses of wine
and watch trash TV, like try to chill
and try to figure out and sleep on it
and then it can maybe
solve the problem but,
especially the people stuff can be hard
when people are,
kind of this (mumbles)
in ways that aren't,
you don't perceive to be fair.
There's a lot of stuff,
there's a lot of pain
but you try to focus on
what you can get done
and get this, the people
that can support you.
And who can run with you to try to,
if you're doing a big enough goal,
you can bring people around
you that are way more fun
to hang out with than all the naysayers
that you have to walk through
or all the people that
keep resources from you
or a bully or all this stuff, yeah,
there's a lot of it.
- [Cara] I'm curious, what's
trash TV for Mary Lou Jepsen?
- What was the last thing that we saw?
We just watched, it was
good, it was The Spy.
It was about agent 88 who was a Israeli
who infiltrated the Syrian government
and became the assistant
deputy of Defense Minister.
It's crazy, it was interesting.
I didn't know that had happened,
it was a true story kind of.
It was awesome, it's on Netflix.
It's a little series, binge watch it.
- [Fabiola] Hi, hello, my name is Fabiola.
I'm studying a one-year
program on entrepreneurship
and I wanted to ask
what would be the advice
or what was the hardest thing
like for changing paths?
For example you being a professor
and then changing to entrepreneurship?
- Oh right, so I did my first startup,
I only got my PhD because of such,
holography is, there are no
jobs or ads for holography.
Basically I'd have to convince
some boss to fund something
and then when the money got tight,
guess what got cut first.
Holography, and I just thought I would die
if I couldn't make holograms.
And I think that's also
in entrepreneurship.
I feel like I would die if I don't,
part of me would die.
And so I guess I only got
my PhD 'cause at that time,
I'm older than I think a lot of you
I just thought it was a union card
for being a woman in technology.
The amount of crap you had
to put up with with a PhD
was less than without a PhD,
and I just thought it was a faster path.
And so really it's like oh
yeah, I got that PhD handy,
I can be a professor because
I have the union card.
And I was just using it as
a way to do interesting work
rather than caring what the format was.
Like how do I find interesting work?
And at the time, the computer
graphics stuff I was doing
in Australia for example or the Media Lab,
I'd done my graduate degree
at the MIT Media Lab,
it just seemed like a
really great platform
to do interesting work.
And so that's why I did it.
Obviously the students
are the coolest part
about being a professor
and I had no idea what,
I thought being a professor was like,
gonna be like being in
grad school, it's not.
It's really like a lot of meetings
and the grad students get
to do all the cool work.
Well, I don't know, what do you think?
I think it's fun, it's great
but the best part about being a professor
is getting to hang out with
the students so I think.
So that was awesome but I just,
like what do you do?
When you create a billion
dollar not-for-profit
catalyzing like the fastest growing
consumer electronic
category ever recorded,
you kind of have to look at
maybe I could help more here and here,
there's a lot of professors,
maybe I should go over here,
maybe I could do more value
or deliver more values,
how I think of it.
But I didn't really,
I just really liked
holography and I tried to find
this niche away from
kind of what felt to me
like bullying, we haven't
talked about gender much
but there were even less women.
So I just found this space
that was comfortable.
Like in holography, it was like
half artist half scientists
and it was really interesting
'cause good Holograms have
to have a really good signal
to noise ratio.
Sounds technical but it's not.
High signal, noises is
bad, signal is good.
Guess who made nicer Holograms
with better signal noise ratio,
the scientists or the artists?
The artists 'cause they were showing it
and they wanted to know
noise in their hologram.
So in the conferences,
there were like 50/50
men and women in the 80s.
And so it was like a really
kind of healthy environment
and I really loved the
people and I loved the work
and it was just a really
nice kind of nurturing place
to be for a while and grow.
And so I just really
wanted to keep staying
in that environment.
Unfortunately there are no jobs
and especially after my brain tumor,
I had to sell out and go flat
because I really needed
the health insurance.
So I started working on 2D displays
'cause I could get health insurance.
- [Cara] We're so glad you
started and continued working
and continued doing so
many different things.
I can't wait to see what
Openwater is going to do
for the world frankly and
I thank you for coming.
I know students will want to
come up and talk to you later
which is why I'm cutting the
questions a little bit short.
I think they want to
get a little bit closer.
I want to thank everybody
for their attention
and most of all Keith and
Mary Lou, thank you so much.
- Thank you Mary Lou, that was amazing.
