STREETS THE REALITY TO THE UIGHURS SEEMS MUCH GRIM.
UIGHURS SEEMS MUCH GRIM. >>> KEIR SIMMONS IS WITH ME NOW.
>>> KEIR SIMMONS IS WITH ME NOW. I HAVE WATCHED THIS PIECE
I HAVE WATCHED THIS PIECE SEVERAL TIMES TODAY.
SEVERAL TIMES TODAY. IT IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE.
IT IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. WHAT WAS IT LIKE BEING THERE?
WHAT WAS IT LIKE BEING THERE? IS THERE A WAY TO JUST
IS THERE A WAY TO JUST CHARACTERIZE WHAT THAT
CHARACTERIZE WHAT THAT EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE?
EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE? FIRST, IT HAS TO BE DIFFICULT TO
FIRST, IT HAS TO BE DIFFICULT TO DESCRIBE.
DESCRIBE. >> I THINK ONE WAS TO BE THERE
>> I THINK ONE WAS TO BE THERE WITH MEMBERS OF THE CHINESE
WITH MEMBERS OF THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTIES, SENIOR
COMMUNIST PARTIES, SENIOR OFFICIALS.
OFFICIALS. BECAUSE WE WERE THERE FOR A
BECAUSE WE WERE THERE FOR A WEEK.
WEEK. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY STRUCK ME WAS HOW
REALLY STRUCK ME WAS HOW COMMITTED THEY WERE TO THIS
COMMITTED THEY WERE TO THIS SYSTEM AND HOW MUCH THEY BELIEVE
SYSTEM AND HOW MUCH THEY BELIEVE IN IT.
IN IT. NOW, LOOK, THERE ARE A LOT OF
NOW, LOOK, THERE ARE A LOT OF NUMBER OF UIGHURS WHO BELIEVE
NUMBER OF UIGHURS WHO BELIEVE THAT THAT AREA SHOULD BE
THAT THAT AREA SHOULD BE SEPARATED FROM CHINA, SHOULD
SEPARATED FROM CHINA, SHOULD BREAK AWAY.
BREAK AWAY. I MEAN, THERE’S NO COUNTRY THAT
I MEAN, THERE’S NO COUNTRY THAT WOULD AGREE TO IT BEING SPLIT UP
WOULD AGREE TO IT BEING SPLIT UP LIKE THAT.
LIKE THAT. OF COURSE, WHAT THEY’LL END UP
OF COURSE, WHAT THEY’LL END UP WITH IS A SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO
WITH IS A SYSTEM THAT APPEARS TO BE SO INCREDIBLY BRUTAL IN ORDER
BE SO INCREDIBLY BRUTAL IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE HOLDING THE COUNTRY
TO ACHIEVE HOLDING THE COUNTRY TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, UNITING A
TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, UNITING A COUNTRY, TEARING FAMILIES APART.
COUNTRY, TEARING FAMILIES APART. SO, IT IS -- IT IS INTERESTING.
SO, IT IS -- IT IS INTERESTING. THAT’S THE THING THAT STRUCK ME,
THAT’S THE THING THAT STRUCK ME, HOW MUCH THEY CARE ABOUT IT.
HOW MUCH THEY CARE ABOUT IT. AMERICANS SHOULD CARE BECAUSE,
AMERICANS SHOULD CARE BECAUSE, OF COURSE, THIS IS A COUNTRY
OF COURSE, THIS IS A COUNTRY THAT BY MANY MEASURES IS THE
THAT BY MANY MEASURES IS THE SECOND IN THE WORLD, MILITARY IS
SECOND IN THE WORLD, MILITARY IS GROWING, IT’S STRONGER AND
GROWING, IT’S STRONGER AND STRONGER.
STRONGER. THIS MASSIVE -- WE SHOULD BE
THIS MASSIVE -- WE SHOULD BE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT EXACTLY
ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT CHINA IS DOING BOTH
WHAT CHINA IS DOING BOTH INTERNALLY AND EXTERNALLY.
INTERNALLY AND EXTERNALLY. >> DESCRIBING WHAT LIFE IS LIKE
>> DESCRIBING WHAT LIFE IS LIKE THERE.
THERE. YOU SAY BRUTAL.
YOU SAY BRUTAL. I MEAN, IT’S SUCH A HARD THING
I MEAN, IT’S SUCH A HARD THING TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE YOU DID
TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE YOU DID SAY THERE’S THIS SENSE OF CALM
SAY THERE’S THIS SENSE OF CALM AND SAFETY BUT THEN ALSO THIS
AND SAFETY BUT THEN ALSO THIS HORROR ABOUT IT WHEN YOU REALIZE
HORROR ABOUT IT WHEN YOU REALIZE WHAT’S HAPPENING TO THE PEOPLE.
WHAT’S HAPPENING TO THE PEOPLE. >> IT IS A LITTLE -- I FELT LIKE
>> IT IS A LITTLE -- I FELT LIKE I FELT WHEN I WAS IN NORTH
I FELT WHEN I WAS IN NORTH KOREA.
KOREA. YOU KNOW, YOU NEVER REALLY QUITE
YOU KNOW, YOU NEVER REALLY QUITE KNOW WHAT YOU’RE GETTING.
KNOW WHAT YOU’RE GETTING. WHETHER SOMEONE IS TELLING YOU
WHETHER SOMEONE IS TELLING YOU THE TRUTH.
THE TRUTH. I WILL TELL YOU AN EXAMPLE OF
I WILL TELL YOU AN EXAMPLE OF HOW WE KNOW THAT IS BECAUSE IF
HOW WE KNOW THAT IS BECAUSE IF UIGHURS COMMUNICATE WITH OTHER
UIGHURS COMMUNICATE WITH OTHER UIGHURS OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY,
UIGHURS OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY, FRIENDS AND FAMILY, THEY SAY
FRIENDS AND FAMILY, THEY SAY THEY’LL BE SENT TO ONE OF THOSE
THEY’LL BE SENT TO ONE OF THOSE CAMPS JUST FOR COMMUNICATING.
CAMPS JUST FOR COMMUNICATING. YOU CAN IMAGINE IT’S TRICKY TO
YOU CAN IMAGINE IT’S TRICKY TO KNOW WHAT’S HAPPENING.
KNOW WHAT’S HAPPENING. THERE ARE ALL OF THESE STORIES.
THERE ARE ALL OF THESE STORIES. ACTUALLY JUST TRYING TO GET A
ACTUALLY JUST TRYING TO GET A PICTURE OF WHAT’S REALLY
PICTURE OF WHAT’S REALLY HAPPENING TO THIS POPULATION IS
HAPPENING TO THIS POPULATION IS INCREDIBLY HARD BECAUSE THEY’RE
INCREDIBLY HARD BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT ALLOWED TO TELL PEOPLE.
NOT ALLOWED TO TELL PEOPLE. >> WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS
>> WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS WHILE THE PACKAGE WAS AIRING
WHILE THE PACKAGE WAS AIRING THAT YOU SAID YOU WERE VERY UP
THAT YOU SAID YOU WERE VERY UP FRONT WITH THEM ABOUT WHAT KIND
FRONT WITH THEM ABOUT WHAT KIND OF A STORY YOU WERE INTERESTED
OF A STORY YOU WERE INTERESTED IN TELLING.
IN TELLING. ARE YOU SURPRISED THEY ACTUALLY
ARE YOU SURPRISED THEY ACTUALLY LET YOU IN?
LET YOU IN? >> I’M NOT SURPRISED BECAUSE I
>> I’M NOT SURPRISED BECAUSE I THINK THEY RECOGNIZE THE
THINK THEY RECOGNIZE THE REPORTING IS HAPPENING ANYWAY
REPORTING IS HAPPENING ANYWAY AND IT’S VERY NEGATIVE SO THEY
AND IT’S VERY NEGATIVE SO THEY SHOULD TRY AND TELL THEIR STORY
SHOULD TRY AND TELL THEIR STORY AND THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE A
AND THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE A STORY TO TELL.
STORY TO TELL. AND THEY KNOW THAT THERE ARE
AND THEY KNOW THAT THERE ARE MOVES TO SANCTION CHINA OVER
MOVES TO SANCTION CHINA OVER THIS ISSUE.
THIS ISSUE. SO, THERE IS A BILL IN FRONT OF
SO, THERE IS A BILL IN FRONT OF THE SENATE.
THE SENATE. THERE’S A BILL IN FRONT OF THE
THERE’S A BILL IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
HOUSE. SO VERY LIKELY THE PRESIDENT
SO VERY LIKELY THE PRESIDENT WILL HAVE A BILL ON HIS DESK IN
WILL HAVE A BILL ON HIS DESK IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS AHEAD THAT
THE WEEKS AND MONTHS AHEAD THAT WILL SANCTION CHINA FOR THEIR
WILL SANCTION CHINA FOR THEIR UIGHUR POLICY.
UIGHUR POLICY. SO, THEY’RE TRYING TO SHIFT THE
SO, THEY’RE TRYING TO SHIFT THE NEEDLE.
NEEDLE. THE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU GO IN
THE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU GO IN THERE, EVEN WHEN YOU GO IN THERE
THERE, EVEN WHEN YOU GO IN THERE AND THEY’RE TRYING TO BEHAVE AS
AND THEY’RE TRYING TO BEHAVE AS IF THEY’RE BEING OPEN, WHEN YOU
IF THEY’RE BEING OPEN, WHEN YOU DON’T REALLY KNOW IF YOU’RE
DON’T REALLY KNOW IF YOU’RE BEING TOLD THE TRUTH, IT’S
BEING TOLD THE TRUTH, IT’S INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO MAKE A
INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO MAKE A JUDGMENT BUT THERE’S ONLY SO
JUDGMENT BUT THERE’S ONLY SO MUCH IN A SENSE THAT THE CHINESE
MUCH IN A SENSE THAT THE CHINESE CAN DO TO PUT THEIR STORY
CAN DO TO PUT THEIR STORY ACROSS.
ACROSS. UNLESS THEY CAN COMPLETELY OPEN
UNLESS THEY CAN COMPLETELY OPEN THE PLACE AND TAKE AWAY THOSE
THE PLACE AND TAKE AWAY THOSE KIND OF VALUES.
KIND OF VALUES. >> WE HAVE TO GO.
>> WE HAVE TO GO. HAVE YOU GOTTEN ANY REACTION
HAVE YOU GOTTEN ANY REACTION FROM THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, ANY
FROM THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, ANY OFFICIAL SINCE THIS HAS AIRED?
OFFICIAL SINCE THIS HAS AIRED? >> ONE SENIOR OFFICIAL WHO SAW
>> ONE SENIOR OFFICIAL WHO SAW MY PIECE.
MY PIECE. HE WROTE TO ME.
HE WROTE TO ME. IS HOW MUCH THEY CARE.
IS HOW MUCH THEY CARE. IF WE REITERATE THEY BELIEVE IN
IF WE REITERATE THEY BELIEVE IN PROTECTING CHILDREN AND
PROTECTING CHILDREN AND CHILDREN’S RIGHTS, SO THEY
CHILDREN’S RIGHTS, SO THEY RECOGNIZE THAT THEY’RE GETTING
RECOGNIZE THAT THEY’RE GETTING NEGATIVE PRESS FROM THIS.
NEGATIVE PRESS FROM THIS. IT’S ONE THING TO RECOGNIZE
IT’S ONE THING TO RECOGNIZE YOU’RE GETTING NEGATIVE PRESS.
YOU’RE GETTING NEGATIVE PRESS. IT’S ANOTHER THING TO DO
IT’S ANOTHER THING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
SOMETHING ABOUT IT. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. DOESN’T SEEM THAT’S THE CASE AT
DOESN’T SEEM THAT’S THE CASE AT ALL.
ALL. >> WELL, WE DON’T KNOW, BUT MANY
>> WELL, WE DON’T KNOW, BUT MANY PEOPLE DON’T THINK THEY’RE DOING
