Platforms like this where we're talking about
it more educating people about the usefulness
of emotion.
If we understand it from what I said earlier
about it being data then it's not this elusive
weird I don't know what emotions are if you
have them you're weak which don't even get
me going on that.
But understanding is data.
Then we move into a position where it's very,
very empowering.
You're listening to My Evolved Life, a podcast
that simplifies health and fitness, and helps
you maximize your life.
My name is Vu Nguyen and I'm the creator of
the Evolution Training System.
We're so lucky to be living in the information
age, meaning it’s easier than ever to access
information and find answers to any questions
you may have.
But, isn't it confusing when you read information
that's conflicting, or worse yet, just sounds
wrong?
I'll be sitting down with industry professionals
to give you clarity and leave you with tangible
actions you can immediately take to improve
your physical, mental, and psychological health.
Today's guest is Cinder Smith, Cinder is a
registered psychologist with a Master's in
Counseling Psychology.
Cinder is also a member of the psychologists
Association of Alberta she believes that taking
care of your mental health is just as important
as taking care of your physical health and
she also believes that everybody has the inherent
capacity for growth learning and connection.
She is a true, true advocate for mental health
so with that welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me and I'm very happy
and excited to be here.
I can see that you're glowing and ready and
we hadn't started talking yet.
Right yes.
So, the other day when you and I were talking
I could literally feel the enthusiasm through
the phone.
Where did this passion for psychology and
mental health begin where did that journey
start?
Oh boy, so I actually went to school originally
to become a teacher and during that process
in my undergraduate degree.
I got to take a whole bunch of electives and
I chose psychology and during that process
I started to really get curious about human
behavior because it's everywhere.
And I fell in love with psychology, with neuro
psychology the development of the brain interactions
with other people and I took a giant leap
of faith and changed my major from Bachelor
of education to a bachelor's in psychology.
And Here I am and I've been practicing now
for about 13 and a half years and I continue
to love what I do and I'm just so grateful
to be here to share my passion and to hopefully
teach people a little bit more about mental
health and the value and importance of it.
So, when you say taking a leap of faith, was
that based on something?
It was based on this so pop psychology these
days talks about our intuition or intuitive
self.
And I had the Spidey sense that just got louder
and louder the more I progressed in my studies
and that was my leap of faith to say you know
what I'm gonna do this and I don't know what
the hell I'm gonna do with it undergrad in
psychology right.
But I'm gonna do it and then I knew after
that is gonna need to pursue more education
and I just, I love it.
Everybody knows somebody who has mental health
in their life whether it's a friend or family.
It's everywhere and I just have such a huge
passion in learning about it and more so in
teaching about it and even further to that
also helping the people that I work with.
So just trusting your gut and sure enough
thirteen years later here you are right.
That's exactly it.
So, can you tell us a little bit about what
counseling psychology is?
Yeah, so it is basically oh that's a hard
question to answer but I'm gonna try to summarize.
About learning somebody's background it's
about learning where they are currently and
what is the presenting issue that's bringing
them in for treatment at that time?
People are very complex and come from a myriad
of backgrounds and so the counseling process
is exactly that.
It's a process and it takes time and it takes
the right stage of change in order to really
help someone with their growth and do some
healing work if that's required.
Sometimes it's just learning a new tool or
technique learning a style of communication
learning how to have healthier boundaries.
There's just so much to it and counseling
really is just a process of helping someone
through their journey and through their struggle.
The fact that we are such complex beings is
probably a fact that we don't appreciate enough.
We think there's always black and white there's
so much more than that and such as the fact
with mental health.
Now when I first reached out to you there
was a lot of reason behind it.
Mental health is something that comes up on
the show or on social media what have you
it comes up all the time nowadays.
But to get the opinion of a professional in
the field it will carry a lot of weight very,
very important.
So with that being said from the eyes from
the perspective of a professional how would
you define mental health?
Oh, it's a really tough question.
Mental health has many components to it one
of the ways that I like to teach people about
it is how you're living your life functional
or not because seldom is it in the middle
or gray.
It is about having joy in your life.
It's about having balance in your life mental
health is about having access to healthy supports
in your world.
We are neuro biologically wired to be connected
as humans.
Even the biggest introverts of the world we
are wired for that and so it's kind of grouping
all of those together looking at your physical
health, your financial health, your relational
health your social supports and kind of combining
all of that together to really capture how
well or unwell is somebody doing.
Now one of the things that I say to people
is you know you go and you see your family
doctor if you have you know a sore throat
or a cold or something that won't go away.
They kind of look at you and they assess you
and they write you a prescription and for
whatever that thing is and you leave and go
along your merry way.
So they're trained to be able to assess you
and look at you and figure out what you need
for your sore throat.
And I talk about that similarly to mental
health is that I'm trained to see it so when
someone comes and sees me and sits in front
of me.
I'm already capturing a bit of a lens that
I can see just by looking at them how well
are unwell they're doing.
So yeah its but that's taken a lot of practice
and a lot of Education to kind of get there.
So mental health is in essence how somebody
is doing in their life emotionally, relationally
and psychologically.
Such a big picture perspective right it's
not just any one individual component.
Now you mentioned the word connection quite
a bit.
I think the word connection it tends to be
lost on us nowadays because social media gives
us a perception of connection because you
know what everybody's up to.
So what is your stance with social media and
how it affects the present state of mental
health at large?
At large oh I might get a lot of flak and
I'm ok with this.
It's okay.
I dislike it I just like the platform that
people most not everybody because there's
some really great social media platforms out
there.
So I'm not going to say it's awful everywhere
but things like snapchat, Instagram and Facebook
can really give people a misperception about
someone's life.
So I have a word that I use for Facebook and
its fake book.
Because I don't really believe that everybody's
putting their honest, unscathed, raw version
of themselves out there they're putting perfect
holiday there are perfect kids with their
perfect outfits and their perfect you know
meal that they put together.
And so in that realm and I can say for sure
in my own practice.
People compare themselves on social media
and it makes them not feel good.
So they feel less than they feel that comparative
factor and it's a breeding ground for mood
related issues period like yeah.
I think that a lot of people will agree with
you there.
Now you the way that you present it it's it
sounds as though people do show their highlights
as opposed to their failures so to speak.
But I also find that there especially nowadays
it just sounds like I'm saying this so, so
much nowadays.
But mental health is top of mind so you also
have people who are airing all of their dirty
laundry on social media as well.
So, you have sides what are your thoughts
on that end?
Okay so if I couldn't just back up the other
piece I would add when I say fake book versus
Facebook.
Is the reality is that life is messy and everybody
has hardship varying degrees of it everybody's
been through some something that has either
forced them to grow and learn and change or
has keep them stunted.
And so I feel like that isn't not what gets
seen on social media because people don't
really want to show that stuff.
But so to come back to your question about
you know when they we can go to too extreme.
So we can be over here where it's the perfect
beachy holiday and my makeups perfect that
day or over here where I'm oversharing a lot
of hardship and trauma inappropriately.
And over there I would say the issue that
I would raise in that realm is boundaries
and that people who are doing that type of
stuff.
I mean there's lots of things that I could
speak to in terms of where they might be at
but I would be starting at the lack of boundaries
that people share when they're exposing way
too much of themselves.
Sometimes it's attention-seeking, sometimes
they just want a lot of validation about where
they are but I have to be careful because
sometimes that's a really big cry for help.
There are times where people are sharing some
real big raw stories about themselves that
they're really, really looking for someone
to say are you okay.
And so my answer is kind of gray because in
my world I kind of lived there but does that
make sense?
It makes absolute sense.
Yeah.
One of the things that I really enjoyed about
our conversation was you make such a clean
distinction that there aren't good and bad
emotions you talk about comfortable versus
uncomfortable emotions.
Can you break that down elaborate on that?
I'd love to so I have a lot of people in my
practice who are very linear and logical thinkers
and I needed a way to explain emotion to explain
feelings to them to help them make sense out
of what was going on for them.
So I love talking about this great so there
is a belief system out there and other people
in my field potentially who talk about feelings
and emotions as being right or wrong or good
or bad and I came up with the idea of them
being comfortable emotions versus uncomfortable
emotions.
So comfortable emotions are these joy, happy,
content, peace, loved, needed, desired and
so when we experience those comfortable emotions.
Because that's what they are they're more
comfy than the other ones.
That's giving us data that says you know what
life is working well for you keep making the
decisions you're making the choices you're
making the habits you have the people you're
surrounding yourself with.
Keep doing those things because it's working
for you you're getting a lot of comfortable
data back to you.
Equally is important to pay attention to the
uncomfortable ones but we don't like to do
that as humans.
So uncomfortable emotions being depression,
anxiety, sadness, fear, worry, jealousy, anger
that kind of stuff and when we experience
those feelings a lot of us want to numb it.
We don't want to deal with it or we want avoid
it we want to retract we want to do things
like drinking drug use shopping.
Other forms of ways of not feeling it but
that information is equally as important.
So when we have uncomfortable emotions it's
giving us data that says you know what life
doesn't seem to be working very well for you
maybe it's your habits maybe it's the people
you're spending time with.
The hobbies or the things that you're engaging
in regularly that are leading you to feel
more discomfort, more uncomfortable feelings
and so it's important to look at that.
Another way which I don't think I mention
to you on the phone is I've often talked about
feelings or emotions.
I use that word interchangeably I should say.
That they're like roadsides, so if I leave
here today and I'm driving home on deer foot
and you know that kind of yellow diamond-shaped
sign that says my lanes gonna end in 500 meters.
Emotions are like that so I can either pay
attention to that as I'm driving home look
at it see it okay I'm in that Lane.
I got to get over and go home and or sorry
get over and go home safely I get home safe
everything's good or I don't look at it.
And if I don't look at it I might cut someone
off I might miss my turnoff.
I might not get home safely so emotions are
exactly that they're either Road science or
data, whichever way you want to look at it.
But it's giving you information that's telling
you life is either working for you or maybe
not working for you.
So it's really, really good tool to look at
it so that's why I love talking about feelings
and emotions is because we all have them and
if we're paying attention to them.
We can craft and create a really good life.
The way that you present that is so interesting
because when we talk about just the same decision
making, we either make emotional decisions
or logical decisions.
And when it comes to logic, logic is based
on data.
But you pose it as though emotions are data
it can be data.
So what that leads me to believe is the quality
of that data is predicated on your ability
to interpret it.
Right, so how do you best put yourself into
a position to better understand what you're
feeling your emotions?
Okay so here's an interesting thing.
So, I've done many talks before and the kind
of my opening statement is how do we define
emotion.
So I'm gonna start there because people get
that confused and complicated They will put
their hands up if I'm standing in front of
a big audience and say “oh it's when you're
happy and you're sad”.
I'm like well it's kind of like trying to
describe color we can talk about pink red
purple, blue, green blah blah blah but it's
really hard to define what's a definition
of color.
So same thing with emotion it's really hard
to just define what is an emotion.
So, I break it down and say it's a combination
between a physical response because we have
lots of physiology that occurs when we feel
an emotion and then it's our cognitions as
well.
It's our interpretation of an event it's our
interpretation of something or a perspective
on things.
So someone's happiness can look really, really
different than somebody else's happiness does
that make sense.
Absolutely.
Yeah, so I talked about as a combo between
our physical response when we're when something
when we're getting hooked by something as
well as what we're thinking about that's kind
of how I talk about emotion.
To me that is a very interesting correlation
that you make between emotions and colors.
And I share with you the other day my philosophy
that one of the things hindering us when it
comes to emotions is our lack of vocabulary.
There are so many different words to describe
your emotions what you're feeling however
we are very limited we use something like
I don't know six or seven angry, happy, sad,
depressed.
But there is a huge, huge spectrum between
being depressed and being a little bit under
a little bit sad.
Right there's a huge spectrum just like there
is a huge spectrum between violet and purple.
There you go.
Yeah but because we don't understand that
distinction now personally, I believe that
words are incredibly powerful.
So the words that you associate yourself with
are representative of what it is that you're
feeling so even though you may not be depressed
per se but associate yourself with the word
depressed.
That immediately has very, very bad connotations
and can lead you to be actually depressed
do you agree with that?
Yeah, I do so are you talking about how we
think about things?
Yeah, yeah, I think just Association in general.
So going back to depression an individual
may have failed a test.
A very, very simple example but rather than
being sad they just associate themselves with
being depressed because they did something
wrong where they jump to an immediate extreme
because they don't know any words in between.
Yeah, so one of the things and just I love
that you just use the word depression because
that's the other thing that I think we were
getting better, but we need to talk about
it more because it's everywhere.
It's out there but the way that I like to
talk about having an emotion.
The difference between let's I'm going to
answer your question in a roundabout way.
That's okay.
The difference between a mood and emotion
is very important for me to be able to answer
your question.
So an emotion we experience many every day
all day and that does not correlate to a diagnosis
of bipolar disorder people get that messed
up a lot.
But we can feel excited we can feel sad.
We can feel a little bit bored we can feel
calm.
So we can have a lot of emotions that we experience
in one day and that's really normal for all
of us.
Mood is how often are those ones showing up
and sticking around the most does that make
sense.
So again coming back to comfortable and uncomfortable
if I'm having lots of comfortable ones my
mood is probably generally quite well.
If I'm experiencing the uncomfortable ones
generally speaking I'm going to have some
sort of mood issue popping up depression being
one of those and anxiety being a very close
second.
So now coming back to your question is that
people like to well they don't like to I shouldn't
say that.
They label themselves sometimes as being depressed
and I really like to separate a person from
their mood versus their behavior.
So, I can behave in a way that might someone
might say oh she looks sad and that's very
different than depression if I use the analogy
of the emotion versus mood same, same.
So I can have an emotion where I'm feeling
sad or I'm having an off-day that doesn't
mean that I am over here and it's with me
too much and so it's now my mood.
Does that make sense?
It makes complete sense so to summarize what
I'm understanding.
Emotions are more what you feel not necessarily
in the moment but it's more maybe short-term
whereas with mood it is a result of a repetitive
pattern.
Yes, it sticks around longer and that's a
major, major distinction between having an
off-day having an off week and even you can
have an off month and that's different that
can be just off and sad and lonely and stuff
going on versus a mood is how long has that
stuff stuck around.
And that's where as a psychologist I really
look at symptoms.
And seeing are those symptoms present and
how long have they been present and that's
really what distinguishes you know kind of
down and out and having a bad day or week
or month versus it sticking around longer
and that's gonna look more like depression.
Right, so let's take a moment and really talk
about what you do.
There is a whether it's a myth misconception
or truth you tell me but when you think psychiatrists
what do you think?
You think lying on a couch, the professionals
sitting there with a clipboard being very
judgmental or writing everything down.
What is your practice like, what do you do
on a day to day basis?
Okay so I'm just gonna because I my profession
will require me to distinguish this.
So psychiatry is different than psychology.
So psychiatry is really more about symptom
management and medication.
So they are rock stars in their field in terms
of really understanding the psychopharmacology
of human behavior.
My world is more focused on the day-to-day
behavioral stuff and helping people live more
functional lives.
And I know it sounds so cliché and a little
bit cheesy but I really have a philosophy
in my practice are you living your best self.
And that's not a “maybe” it's either yes
I am or no I'm not and generally speaking
what I say to people when they come into my
practice is you're here because something's
not working and we need to figure that out
together so the process in in in my practice
is around people's functionality.
So really assessing that and I get down to
brass tacks like how's your sleep how's your
appetite how's your exercise who are your
supports and then really teasing out what's
the thing that brings you here.
What's the thing that isn't working in your
life right now we got to figure that out and
I really I mean my practice do a didactic
experience particularly in my first consultation
with people to really get a good grasp and
picture on how well are they doing big picture.
I don't want to just talk about the thing
that brings you in to see me.
I want to know all of these other areas because
I really believe that people have no matter
what they're going through the hardship at
all they have a set of strengths.
So I try to tap into that too.
Right so I want to ask you a more difficult
question I believe that people inherently
are good, and we want to help.
But when it comes to mental health being able
to help means that you have the tools to be
able to identify when somebody's suffering?
So having dealt with so many clients, you
call them clients?
Yup.
What are the tell-tale signs the very, very
obvious indicators that there may be something
wrong and they need help?
Oh boy I would come back to my previous answer
in terms of their functionality.
So how are they doing on a day to day regular
basis and really looking at yeah sleep appetite
exercise supports how are they doing relationally.
How is their employment their job their workplace
their finances and a big one that gets missed
and I ask every single person who comes for
a first consultation what do you do for fun?
And it's funny but not because if I have a
long pause between my question and someone's
answer to that I'm gonna be right there because
it's a problem.
If you can't access two three quick things
that you do for fun in your life that's problem
so it's really kind of looking at everything
but if I was to if someone's gonna sit across
from me because they're making an appointment
I'm coming back to the dr.
Analogy to.
They wear it they look like it they look like
they have something bigger going on because
again through thirteen years of doing this.
I can see when they're getting better they'll
walk in and they'll sit down there'll be a
little bit lighter.
They'll make eye contact with me and just
be more cognitively engaged in the process
and yeah I can literally see that shift in
people.
So just as much as I can see them when they're
not doing well I can see them when they're
doing well as well.
Makes complete sense yeah, I do apologize
because I'd know that was a tough question
because a lot of people aren't good at hiding
it as well.
Yes.
And like you said you have to observe their
patterns their relationships but that's also
predicated on you seeing the person regularly
right.
So unless it's somebody who you're very very
close with and again see them all the time
it's going to be very hard to, to pick them
apart based on their social media posts or
what have you right.
Very much so yeah.
So, you one of the things that we talked about
was communicating with children communicating
the importance of mental health communicating
how they should articulate their emotions.
Yeah let's talk about that.
Yeah, so we've come a long way I think that
now what is happening in the schools is actually
in my neighborhood and a few other schools
that I'm attached to the discussion about
the importance of self-regulation emotional
regulation in the classroom.
And if there was any wet place and I'm just
gonna back up and say that I don't work exclusively
with kids because I can't turn it off.
So, my practice involves adults only and a
few adolescents in there just to keep it fun
yeah but the little guys that's where we need
to be teaching this stuff.
If I could put it in classrooms if I could
put it in the curriculum that's where I would
go in terms of teaching young kids about mental
health about emotion because that's all they
are.
They live in emotion and they do because their
frontal lobe of their brains in all school-age
children is still developing.
And why I highlight that is because that is
the part of our brain where were really good
problem solvers.
That is where impulse control comes into play
so hence those little toddlers that had their
little tantrums.
But the frontal lobe of our brain also allows
us to have executive function and good thinking
and so if you imagine that you've got a young
child who doesn't have that part of their
brain developed yet.
But has oodles of emotion it doesn't know
what to do with that and so my belief and
philosophy about kids and feelings is talk
about them.
Let them have them don't shut them down.
We're very quick to do that because they can
get on our nerves.
As a mother I can say that and I also think
that we have to have oodles of patience to
teach kids about emotion and about feeling.
But to not take it away I often say be careful
that you're not hijacking your little one’s
feelings because they need to have them.
They need to learn about them.
It's our job as parents to teach that as a
psychologist I think it's even more important
because if we can do that with them.
We're gonna have a future of adults who are
emotionally intelligent and I might get some
flak for this too and I'm okay with it.
But I really believe that emotional intelligence
supersedes intellectual intelligence and I
say that because we can learn anything we
can go to schools we can read we can be taught
a whole bunch of stuff.
Emotional intelligence is super hard to teach
I mean I'm still 13 years doing it and there's
still a lot of learnings I'm doing with it
too but does that make sense?
It certainly does and emotional intelligence
is one of those not funny things it's very,
very important.
But I find that when you when we refer to
emotional intelligence we are referring to
our ability to understand other people's emotions
but we don't talk enough about understanding
our own.
Our own.
Emotional self-intelligence and emotional
self-awareness.
I feel like we're lacking that a lot and maybe
because there is such a stigma around emotions
where do you think that stigma comes from?
People don't want to talk about those things.
They don't wanna talk about that and coming
back to social media to that they want to
talk about the comfortable life the comfortable
life where it's happy and easy and blah, blah
but we don't I should say we're getting better
yes we're getting better the Bell let's talk
movement has drastically changed our ability
to talk about it now which I love it.
And I'm so happy that they have a platform
to do that because when we talk about it more.
We dispel a whole bunch of the myths that
are around mental health.
So one of them being if you have a mental
health issue you're in some way broken or
if you have a mood disorder or even bigger
than that a personality disorder.
There's something inherently wrong with you,
whereas I like now we're getting better we're
not where I want us to be yet talking about
it more and removing labels that keep people
in those places.
I don't know if I'm really articulating that
great but it's the more we talk about it the
more comfortable people get with it in the
last I'd say probably two to five years celebrities
talking more about it.
I mean people sharing with the world particularly
celebrities because those are ones that I
think a lot of people miss perceive that they're
doing great and well in life and there a lot
of them are not.
Anthony Bourdain that was a huge one I love
him.
Yes, definitely and even just the, what was
that movie that just came out with Lady Gaga
and Bradley Cooper I’m forgetting the name.
A star is something.
A star is born beautifully represented mental
health in general and addiction and people
loved it.
People ate that up because that's what's in
people's lives does that make sense?
It does.
And so, I think the more we talk about it.
The more we dispel some of the major, major
misperceptions about what mental health is
all about.
Talking about it, no I may be asking you a
little bit of a leading question which I don't
mean to do.
But talking about it is there a right way
and a wrong way like there is in my opinion
a difference between talking about your emotions
and just venting.
Yeah.
Where do you draw that line?
That's a really good question, talking about
them.
So from a clinical perspective oodles of research
that supports when we talk about it two things
from a healing perspective can happen one
is we literally are externalizing something.
So we're taking something from here more importantly
from here and getting it out there have been
many, many times in my practice where someone
will say I feel so much better because now
I've said it out loud.
So there's that piece and then a kind of a
close second to that is when we talk about
something.
We take away I'm gonna use this funny term
but we take away the scariness of it.
So to talk about it it's like let's just throw
that out on the table unpack it look at it
and get real and raw with it.
And lots of people really like that in my
world in Psych we talked about that being
normalizing.
So when we normalize someone's problem and
pain it dissipates it just a little bit.
Now you're right because on the flip side
of that is venting and venting can be healthy
and helpful when we do it right because yes
there's a right way in a wrong way because
when we are doing too much of it.
We're not managing that emotion in a healthy
way if anything we're probably fueling it
more.
The way I like to talk about it in my practice
with people is there's a very different method
between reacting to an emotion which requires
very little if any cognitive thought, versus
responding to an emotion.
Responding to emotion requires you to be in
it sit with it get curious about it and then
think about what is this all about where is
this coming from.
We do a lot of this, a lot of that and mislabel
their emotion or manage it in a really unhealthy
way.
So again, on the same train of thought talking
about it I know emotions where we've been
kind of talking about this already emotions
are treated as taboo.
So to speak and there is a lot of shame around
it embarrassment around it.
Who again going back to your clients, the
ones that have outlets people to talk to who
are those people generally the reason I asked
this question is because some people are just
they feel like they have no options nobody
to talk to.
Who are the first people they should go to?
And I do understand that is circumstantial
it's not gonna be the same for everybody but
let’s generalize.
Yeah so are you talking about somebody who's
coming to see me or in general?
In general.
Someone who's just struggling with mental
health there’s something going on but I'm
not sure what it is.
That's correct.
If you're lucky and you have healthy supports
in your life and that can be friends, family
your partner those people.
If those people can be in your corner and
listen to you and hear you and you feel comfortable
enough to confide in them.
I would those people, if you have a family
doctor that you have a good relationship with,
they're also a really good.
I call it your nucleus.
So if you have a good nucleus of people in
your life or tribe kind of use those words
interchangeably that's your support network
those are the people you should go and talk
to.
If you don't have that it's about well probably
coming and seeing a professional like myself
and then you build one.
You create one I was serious when I said earlier
we are wired for connection all of us.
And so you don't have to have a huge nucleus
a huge network but you need to have a few
people who that you can turn to and talk to
when life gets hard and messy.
Right, so we've used this term a couple of
times proactive.
We this is one of those topics that does come
up again yeah whether it's physical health
mental health psychological what-have-you
but we wait until we're at the brink.
I know.
Right and I'm sure you experienced that all
the time.
How do we begin to get ahead of it and when
should we actually be going to see a professional.
Right love that question because your right
people often come in when things are really
bad, and I love to tell people and teach them.
I want you to come in when they're kind of
sort of starting to feel like they're off
and not everybody has the same level of self-awareness.
If they have lots of it they're gonna catch.
I call it catching yourself on the fall right
so if you're gonna catch yourself on the fall
and you've got lots of awareness you're gonna
get yourself a little bit sooner.
Does that make sense versus if I'm not really
self-aware I may be a little bit foggy I'm
probably gonna be closer to that kind of tipping
point or that drop and not catch myself.
So again I'm coming back to the functionality
of your life if your sleep is off if your
appetite is off if you're noticing that your
mood is a little bit shifted or you're more
impatient and you normally are if you're not
engaging in the things that used to bring
you joy or happiness those would be some big
red flags to be paying attention to.
The other distinction that I make is sometimes
we, not sometimes we can have situational
stuff that impacts our mood.
So if someone passes away that we love right
naturally we are going to show signs of depression.
That doesn't mean I'm depressed that's you
know acute grief in the moment.
So I don't always just land on a diagnosis
based on that because I want to know what
else has been going on for somebody.
So just because you are crying every day and
can't get out of bed and not eating well doesn't
mean you're depressed it means well you're
still in that grieving stage of the loss that
you've experienced.
Do you see what I mean so someone has to have
a little bit more I would say awareness to
catch themselves before they really drop.
But if you can that's I guess that's what
I would be hinging on.
Again, going back to those definitions right
that also takes the understanding that there
is a difference between grief and depression.
The definitions between the two, right?
Yes.
And if I take just one thing away from this
conversation it's going to be that there is
a massive difference between mood and emotions
that's huge.
I want to go back to something you said earlier
when we were talking about communicating with
kids.
You've mentioned the term emotional regulation.
Can we talk a little bit about that, how does
one regulate their emotions?
Okay so there's a big pop word in psychology
and out there these days about mindfulness.
Mindfulness is all about the now, it's about
being very, very present emotions have the
ability to take us out of the now or the opposite.
We also when we experience strong emotions
seldom are we being cognitive about it.
That's when I come back to reactionary versus
responsive.
So self-regulation emotional regulation lives
over here where we are responding to an emotion.
So to do that some time and I literally teach
people.
This when you have a strong emotion and you
feeling something very, very profound I usually
go with anger because that's the one that's
out there…
I'll speak to that in a second.
That if I'm feeling angry I get people to
do the opposite so you really want to be activating
your parasympathetic nervous system.
So that's diaphragmatic breathing, sitting
down in a chair getting you know kind of the
belly breaths and then once you're there and
once you've been able to regulate or sort
control your heart rate and your breathing
you can then tap into the cognitive side of
things and say what's going on here.
What's going on for me what's how have I been
hooked what was I triggered by get curious
about it you can do more with it and you can
regulate yourself you can be able to have
a hard strong emotion but it doesn't get messy.
So with anger I love talking about it because
there's nothing wrong with it.
It's normal we all have it every single one
of us experiences anger because that's over
here with uncomfortable emotions.
The problem with anger is what we do with
it that makes sense.
So I can be angry all of us get that but it's
what we do with it or what we don't do with
it.
And most people grew up in homes and families
and watched it being managed in an unhealthy
way.
So then we observational learning is huge
for kids and as well as for adults then we
take that forward and that's how we engage.
So I love talking about that as well and helping
people regulate themselves when they are angry.
I think it's very important to make the distinction
that when you say regulate you don't mean
avoid.
No good distinction.
I think that is very, very important to say
because it may be perceived that way right.
By controlling our emotions we choose to either
confront them or avoid them that's not the
case there is a very fine medium right you
can you can you it's not necessarily great
but you are.
The reason I say gray is you're doing your
best control something that is relatively
uncontrollable.
Okay going back to kids I love that you're
so passionate about communicating with them.
Now I am curious we like to make the male-female
distinction.
There are male behaviors female behaviors
and I assume that that also correlates to
male emotions and female emotions.
How do we get away from that because the emotions
are emotions?
Yeah, we all have them whether female or male
we all have them.
So I love this question and I could babble
on for hours about it but I'll try to be succinct.
Males and we're getting better but we're nowhere
near where I want them to be are generally
socialized to keep their emotions in check.
You guys are socialized to not have as many
or if you have them don't show them right.
Boys don't cry suck it up but you have one
emotion that you're very much socialized to
express and what do you think that one is?
Anger.
Anger yeah nailed it females if I can be very
primitive and this goes way back in my like
early psych class days going in the archives.
We are wired to have babies we are wired to
be emotionally attuned very much so.
So that we can hear and understand our babies,
babies only communicate through emotion that's
it.
So understanding your baby's cry allows us
to respond to them.
So females and I'm being very global and it's
not this way now we're getting better females
are socialized to have a lot of them and they
are socialized that it's acceptable to express
them.
I'm not saying that's right or wrong.
It's I guess an observation I think the way
that we move around away from that is platforms
like this where we're talking about it more
educating people about the usefulness of emotion.
If we understand it from what I said earlier
about it being data then it's not this elusive
weird I don't know what emotions are if you
have them you're weak which don't even get
me going on that but understanding it is data
then we move into a position where it's very,
very empowering where we can have this discussion
males and females about what emotions are
my experiencing right now.
And I think if we can start doing more of
that and understanding emotions from that
place.
Then we can make an even bigger shift in mental
health.
Going back to mood and emotion I'm not suggesting
that we need to change our emotions if you're
sad then you’re sad.
If you're going through a period where your
mood isn't as positive that's okay but what
are the things that we can do what are some
habits that we can undertake or employ to
influence our mood and emotions in a positive
manner whether it's putting yourself surrounding
yourself with positive people or what-have-you
you suggest?
So, I have a really big a phrase that I use
a lot both in my professional life and my
personal life is what you think about you
bring about.
And so be very careful about where you land
your thoughts on a regular basis because it
has a lot of power in your life habits though
that create healthy mental health, sleep hygiene
we talked about earlier yeah eating regularly
and eating healthy having healthy supports
in your life people you can go to.
Exercise huge I work with a lot of people
who will come and see me and they'll say Cinder
“whatever we do I don't want to be medicated”.
And I'll say okay well that's fine but I might
put that in my back pocket for down the road
if we have that conversation but I'll say
then you better be moving a lot because exercise
is the number one way to combat mental health
naturally.
Moving phrase I use in practice as well to
get out of your head get out of your house.
So that stuff and then fun what do you do
for fun what are you doing on a regular basis
that brings you joy and without it sounding
super cheesy but what fills you up what is
soulful in your life that makes you feel like
this is awesome.
Because we get one shot at this crazy thing
called life.
And if we're not having a lot of fun along
the way that's a problem so it's a combination
of like some of those physical things but
and then relational stuff and then what are
your hobbies, what are the things that you
love to do on a regular basis.
So that would be my starting space for somebody.
I like that a lot and it's a good reminder
as well though that fun is subjective fun.
Fun is gonna be different from person to person
and it doesn't have to be this grand activity
no you don't have to hit the mountains just
to have fun it could be something as simple
as doing the crossword I assume.
There you go yep that's it is and it's a combination
of what gets you out of your head or your
stress and what's light-hearted and just something
that that isn't complicated.
I will openly admit I have this huge obsession
with Ellen I think she's an amazing human.
We're gonna tag her in this.
Right perfect because she says at the end
of every single one of her shows be kind to
one another.
And I love that but I also loved like the
little games she plays with all of her guests
on there and sometimes that's what I do for
fun.
I just watched a bunch of like silly little
Ellen clips because it's funny and it's light-hearted
and isn't this heavy hard stuff that life
throws us.
But yes you're right it doesn't have to be
this big grandiose thing that you do that's
for fun like go to Disney Disneyland.
It could be just what's some small activity
for 15 minutes that you're doing every day
that that fill you up, that make you laugh
that I don't think we laugh enough I think
humor is something that's really, really important
that we move away from right now too often.
I think we're really serious I think this
economy is bringing on a lot of hardships
and I'm not saying don't address it.
I'm doing the opposite address it but park
it sometimes and remind yourself that life
is also really awesome and really fun so don't
always live over here and dealing with the
hardship that life can throw at us.
I can tell that A you're very very passionate
about this, but I also sense that you're very
optimistic as well.
You're getting more optimistic about just
human beings in general would you say that
at large we're progressing in the right direction
when it comes to mental health.
Yes, I do I believe that we are I know it
sounds so cliché, but I believe that we're
talking about it more and we're sharing it
openly with each other.
I go down to I speak at it's called mommy
connections it's a mom's group in the south
of Calgary and I speak.
We know them.
Oh, perfect shout out and I love going down
there and the more we talk about it.
The more we talk about the realness of motherhood
and having babies and the messiness.
The group of women that that connect with
each other there because it's real and it's
raw and they're like oh great we can talk
about how awful this is I mean we love our
kids.
Joking… but it helps to move away from that
stigma and it helps someone feel like they're
not alone they're not the only ones suffering.
And so I think doing more of this I think
yeah a lot of things need to change but we're
for sure going in that direction.
It's a really community right.
It's community yeah.
It's sometimes it's kind of a buzzword but
yeah community at large is very, very important
and yeah beauty is as simple as just people
who are like you.
Who don't necessarily share the same philosophies
but they're going through the same things
right.
And it's funny because I get it all the time
as soon as somebody if I'm at a Christmas
party or meeting the neighbors whatever soon
as somebody knows what I do for a living.
It's awesome when they come forward and they
say “I have a quick question” I'm not
on duty right now but okay.
But I love it because if you feel comfortable
enough to come forward and talk about it I'm
going to talk about it and I'm going to answer
any question.
And so I think when yeah I just have such
a passion for it and I have a passion for
helping other people and bringing forward
that you don't have to be suffering in silence
anymore.
And you don't have to think that you're the
only one that's going through something hard.
One of our previous guests said something
that I thought was so profound he said that
comparison is the thief of joy.
So, going back to social media.
We are always in a state a habitual state
of looking at other people what they're doing
their accomplishments or what is perceived
to be their accomplishments because that's
what they put out there.
How do we get away from that, how do we put
ourselves in a position where we just don't
care what other people's our people are doing
and what they're accomplishing just more focusing
on the self?
Wow that is a really good question.
How do we get away from it?
Am I allowed to swear on the show?
You can if you’d like.
But the beauty with aging is my give a shit
factor has gone way down.
That's hardly a swear by the way but that’s
fine.
Okay good I could drop another one, but I
won't I’ll just shelf that one that one.
But yeah so it's like teaching someone how
to do that and focusing more on themselves
and less on what other people because let
me tell you in my practice the ones that show
up that look perfect they're you've usually
got some huge stuff going on.
So that picture that that you see when you're
on Facebook or Instagram or snapchat or whatever
I would invite people to have a bit of a different
lens and say is that really what's going on.
And maybe not to worry so much about what
other people are doing spend more time focused
on yourself and harvesting your own relationships
and your own habits and progression in your
own life and you move away from how much that
matters does that make sense?
It certainly.
It's a really hard thing to do in fact I was
talking about that with another professional
the other day is like, how do we help people
use social media in a healthier way and less
exactly as like a thief of joy?
When we look at someone else's seemingly perfect
life and we feel smaller about ourselves that's
a problem like I've literally given the homework
to many clients of mine social media cleanse
for 30 whole days.
I don't want you on there I don't want you
looking at it I want you to take it off your
phone and see how you feel after 30 days and
again I'm not saying it's all bad because
there's some stuff that I follow and I love
and it's great.
But it's stuff that when I look at it, it
doesn't make me feel small or it doesn't make
me feel like I'm not progressing.
So that would be another invitation for folks
is to whatever you have whoever you're following
make sure is that bringing you more joy or
less in your life and if the answer is less
get it off like period.
I have a kind of a very firm line with that.
And so if it isn't something that makes you
feel good about yourself or contributing to
your own wellness remove that period.
100%, I believe that so much of it comes down
to perspective.
Perspective is so, so huge we don't get enough
of it we don't think enough about it.
I'm sure you know Gary Vaynerchuk is one of
the things that.
He says that I fully, fully live each and
every single day is with the mindset and philosophy
that if you're living in North America you're
in the 99th percentile in terms of quality
of life.
I mean yes we still go through things but
are you eating every day do you have shelter
over your head.
There's a lot of other things that could be
plaguing your life.
Are you are you able to move do you have the
option to move.
Freedom.
The freedom for the majority of us the answer
is yes so perspective can you talk a little
bit about that and how that ties into their
emotions.
I know that's kind of a an offset kind of
question but so just perspective in general
and how does it influence emotion?
Yeah so, I'm gonna come back to the phrase
I said earlier about what we think about we
bring about.
And so if you think about this for a quick
second it isn't random that you wake up in
the morning and you have some healthy thoughts
I'm gonna have a great day today I'm gonna
focus on things that that I'm grateful for
and bring me joy.
So you leave the house and you get a string
of green lights on your way to work you get
to the office door and someone's there to
open it for you.
Your favorite cup of coffee is sitting on
the corner of your desk because you're your
teammate left it for you whatever.
That I believe is the lens that we can choose
to have to change how we feel.
So perspective being where where's my lens
where's where are my thoughts where do I go
versus I hit snooze my cat is sleeping on
the floor and I tripped over her and my coffee
maker well that sucks today and I hit all
red lights on my way to work.
And I get there and I'm irritated and same-same
that my lens is looking at everything's up
that's not working everything that is wrong
or bad or whatever.
But both of those come down to how we think
about things and where we where we decide
to put our lens.
Because like I said earlier and I'm old enough
to say this that life is hard and life is
messy and all of us get given something that
we need to work through.
And we can either choose to play victim and
there's no growth there.
There's no growth in laying down and saying
poor me and why is this happening.
There's growth when you say what is this as
opposed to teach me where am I going with
this why is this showing up in my life.
It's showing up to teach me something and
I got a look at it.
And when you can look at it and have the thought
a perspective that no matter what I'm gonna
be okay you will be okay.
If you have the thought in perspective that
I don't know if I can do this and I might
break and I might crack not work out.
It's probably gonna go that way too.
So I could spend a half an hour talking about
this because I really believe and I'm not
immune from hardship myself.
But where do you want to put your lens how
do you want to look at something and again
your people your tribe your nucleus when things
are hard do you have people around you who
are gonna say you know what I believe in you
and you can get through this even if you don't
think you can at that time right.
As you explain that I can just see that there's
so much correlation between perspective and
mindfulness yes because unless you are present
are you gonna noticed that you had a string
of green lights thank for that your coworker
left you a cup of coffee.
You may not even notice that's happening right.
And I think mindfulness is one of those things
that is becoming more and more difficult with
technology you know what there are a lot of
people and sometimes myself where I get separation
anxiety when I don't have my phone next to
me.
So it's tough but we will get there.
We will get there.
So, it sounds like you are just chock-full
of clients now with clients nowadays you're
doing a lot of different things you're doing
keynote speeches.
What is next on your radar?
What is next on the horizon?
Oh, part of me was like ambivalent about sharing
it but I will so in the fall I was invited
to apply for a TED Talks.
And so that application has been submitted
so I'm waiting on that which the reason why
I'm so excited for it if I get this opportunity
as I get to share with thousands of people
my beliefs around emotions and mental health.
And where we are going with it so that's a
thing over here I'm also working on furthering
my education and right quite ready to share
that piece of where I'm going.
But I really want to start taking this whole
myth about mental health and kind of what
happens behind closed doors and bringing more
light to it.
And sharing it with more people and I see
myself doing that still in my practice I don't
think I'm gonna give that out for a long time
I know some psychologists who have moved away
from the clinical work and they're doing other
things but I still want to do that that's
where my heart throb is.
Working one-on-one with people but the other
piece is moving into more of a public platform
and talking more about it coming and doing
this.
And a few other areas in Canada that I will
be going to and speaking at big events that's
kind of where I'm going for 2020.
That's great so first I'm gonna say that not
only do you deserve to be on that stage TEDx,
YYC, I'm looking at you I want to tag them.
They would be doing the audience a disservice,
if they didn't put you on that stage.
That’s very kind of you.
Because this is such an important topic to
talk about yeah for so many reasons there
are so many layers to it.
Based on what we've talked about today and
in other conversations you are the right person
for it.
You are very very passionate about it and
with something this large you do require a
very passionate force behind that change.
Thank you.
So that being said somebody's looking for
your services how do they find you?
So, my practice is Smith psychological services.
I have a website they can access there's a
forum on there they can fill out.
There's my contact information email phone
number yeah it's pretty easy they can Google
me the Psychology Today is a magazine where
lots of psychologists are on there I invite
people to really not just me I don't want
to just speak for my own practice.
But one of the most important things about
your therapeutic journey is your relationship
with the person you're gonna work with having
really good rapport being a good match and
what a good fit is so key.
If you’re gonna absorb the information.
If you're gonna take home tools and learn
how to do that you need to be with somebody
who you feel comfy with.
And so it doesn't need to be obviously me
but any anybody who is seeking therapy.
I strongly invite that to be a really important
piece and there's a lot of us out there and
there's a lot of us who offer a free 10 to
15-minute phone consultation to say kind of
get a general feel or vibe for that connection.
But yeah I would strongly invite people to
do that.
So, knowledge of course is very important,
but rapport almost supersedes it.
So for people looking for you its Cinder,
C-I-N-D-E-R it's not intuitive.
No and it's so funny because I get all the
times like it's that short for Cinderella
right, I love that but no.
I promised myself I’m not going to do that
today.
It’s all good people ask me all the time
I’m like no it is not.
So, to make this a little bit easier on people
I know Google is a big thing but just fortunately
or unfortunately people do look for services
on social media as well.
What kind of credentials are that are they
looking for like do you have.
So, what's really important for kind of a
logic and a finance reason purpose I'm worrying
that right is if you have benefits if you
have benefits and coverage through your place
of employment they recognize registered psychologists
which is what I am for coverage.
They do not cover mental health clinicians
or counselors or social workers or if they
do cover social workers that one's new.
So generally speaking if you're going to access
psychological services you want someone who
has a registered psychologist credential.
We have very unique specialized training that
other counselors or therapists do not have.
So that would be a really big qualifier?
Would it ever be written RP shorthand or no.
We would do R psyche so R period P-S-Y-C-H.
That’s what I was looking for perfect.
Yes.
So, if an individual is living an evolved
life what does that look like?
Oh, I love this question if they're living
in evolved life, they're self-aware they are
taking very good care of themselves wholly
physically, emotionally, psychologically,
spiritually and they're having a lot of fun
along the way.
That is beautiful thank you so much for being
on the show.
Yea you’re welcome thanks for having me.
Of course, that was just chock-full of great
information so thank you so much.
Well you asked very good questions.
Thank you very much I appreciate that.
Thank you.
Hey guys, thanks for watching.
If you enjoyed this video, I'd recommend you
subscribe to our Channel at EvolutionVN, and
you can do so below.
Each week we'll be releasing a new information-packed
interview which will simplify your health
and fitness and help you maximize your life.
So, subscribe below to be notified whenever
a new video is released.
Until then, live an evolved life.
