Hi, and welcome to Red Bull Music Academy
Bass Camp Stockholm.
My name is Calle Dernulf
and I'm incredibly happy to introduce
an experimental sound creator and musician,
Peder Mannerfelt!
Hi!
-How are you?
-I'm good. A bit tired.
But at least I made it here.
You just finished a gig at Berghain.
What was the mood like?
We played the final set,
until 10 o'clock yesterday morning.
It was very intense, but a lot of fun.
-And you went on as Aasthma?
-That's right.
You and Pär Grindvik.
What is it that you do as Aasthma?
We don't really know.
We've worked together for
quite a few years in various ways.
He helps me with my record company
in many different ways.
But we realized that we had never
made music together.
So we started doing that.
We don't really have a plan.
We just started DJing together,
like we did this weekend.
Did you dream about being
a rock star when you were young?
Oh yes! That was my goal all along.
I wanted that from an early age.
I played the guitar at first,
and wanted to become a rock star.
But that's not quite what happened.
How do you feel about
that rock star status
when you compare it to being
a star DJ at Berghain today?
In hindsight I think I made
the right decision.
The CDJ it a bit more fun
than playing the guitar.
It's easier.
I wasn't that great of a guitarist.
I never really fully committed to it.
I ended up fiddling
with pedals and such things instead.
Others had more talent than me.
Was that a way to move away from it
since you felt that you weren't
that great of a guitarist?
Probably. I wanted to make electronic music,
but didn't know anyone who did.
Everyone played in a band:
hard rock, grunge, punk and hard core.
I didn't know anyone
who owned a synthesizer.
It was almost like a mystery... I knew
that I wanted to make drum & bass.
But I had absolutely no idea how to do it.
My big brother had computer software
in which you could edit a track.
So he edited a few songs together,
which was awesome.
But that was all there was.
For the past 15-20 years
you've had The Subliminal Kid,
Roll the Dice and
a lot of collaborations.
Yes.
Why are you so attracted
to collaborations?
It just happens.
I get easily bored,
so I always look for something new.
It's much easier to get something done
when you're not on your own.
Even in my solo projects
I still work with Pär Grindvik.
If you work on your own,
the process can take such a long time:
When is it time to move on,
when is it done?
Just realizing when you're done...
It's so easy to just keep going
and keep adding things.
But if you're two or more people
making the decision to move forward
is much easier,
"OK, now we're done!"
And not let things pile up.
Do you feel an obligation to deliver
when there's someone else involved?
Is that also a part of the collaboration?
Having to step up to the plate.
I'm not sure it works that way.
I like it when you can involve
different people in the process.
You work with different people
in different ways.
You don't always have to stay
in the same role.
With one person you might
focus on the beats.
Or I might be in charge of the musical part,
even though that's not my strong suit.
It's fun to try on different roles,
such as doing the lyrics and such.
It's a lot of fun, and that's
the most important thing for me.
Let's get back to the dream
of being a rock star
and when you started fiddling
with effect pedals instead.
At this point you had to have realized
that it was sound in particular
that was important for you?
Right. In his basement, a friend of mine
had one of the first Pro Tools interfaces.
We spent the entire final year
of high school recording bad funk.
-Bad funk?
-Very bad funk.
After school had finished, I went there
on my own to record other things.
I took a sound technician course.
It's not that long ago, but at that time
the internet didn't exist in the same way.
All kind of information
is available right away today.
Today, you can learn a lot on your own,
which is awesome.
That wasn't possible before.
YouTube has really made a huge difference.
You had to find information
in other ways.
So I took a course at
the SAE Institute for six months
to find out if this was
something that I could pursue.
When did you realize that you
would be able to accomplish
the things you wanted to do musically?
About five years ago, I'd say.
Mastering all this
has been a long journey.
Working with music software
is like learning a new instrument.
You get a flow in your work.
It's interesting that
you said "five years ago"
since you've been releasing records
for a long time and produced other artists.
That attitude might be a bit too humble,
without a sense of reality?
It wasn't until then...
But I'm not done yet.
You always keep learning.
That's when I felt that I could create
the things that I had set my mind to.
It's like the famous 10,000 hour rule.
You can master anything, as long as you
spend 10,000 hours doing it.
I've probably spent 100,000 hours
or more at this point...
I think that's true. Even if you're not
the best singer or musician
you can still put in the hours,
and find your way.
That's why I like working with a computer.
Today, you can create a song incredibly fast.
The threshold is really low.
Twenty years ago,
I couldn't even imagine this:
"How does a sampler work? Where can I
get one? What else do I need?"
Today, a producer makes music.
Historically, a producer has been a mediator
between the technology and the artist.
Making the artist feel comfortable
with using the technology, and vice versa.
You almost act as a psychologist.
It's easy to forget those things today
when you work on your own.
When you work with others,
you have to listen to each other.
There are also producers, artists
and record companies who
want a specific person
who represents a certain sound
or level of quality, and so on.
But there's also the aspect you mention,
the mediator who has
to convey the artist's vision.
If you work as a producer for another artist,
you are not the main focus.
It's easy to forget that today
when the lines are blurred.
We learned a lot regarding that.
Do I want to be an artist
or a producer?
Where do I place myself on this scale?
And you found that being
a producer is a bit tricky?
Henrik von Sivers who I work with right now,
he calls himself Van Rivers,
we did this together for a few years.
Then we drifted away from each other.
We wanted different things musically.
I'm very happy with what we created
during this long process.
Then I ended up at square one again.
I didn't know what to do.
Should I start making commercial jingles,
or get into the TV business?
Where do you go from here?
I just started making tons of recordings.
I have children now, so I don't have
as much time as before
but at that point I had tons of free time.
I spent many hours on it.
Now, ten years later
I can open those files and have 15 perfect
minutes that I can use today.
I spent a long time
searching for a purpose.
If we go back a bit, do you have
any early musical memory
that you can go back to?
A strong experience of any kind?
My big brother is seven years older than me
and was into hip-hop in the late 80s.
He recorded Soul Corner on P3
for me every Sunday.
I was five, so I had to listen to it.
We listened to the hip-hop of that time,
Public Enemy and 2 Live Crew.
And also Kraftwerk!
That's where it started.
That's quite modern in a way,
but you still chose to pick up the guitar?
That's when I wanted to find my own way,
when my big brother left home.
Me and my friends listened to
a lot of hardcore
which was big in Sweden in the beginning
of the 90s, such as Refused.
You know, going snowboarding
and playing the guitar.
Eventually you found your own type of techno
by eliminating the dance floor.
Yes.
How liberating was it to realize
that you had a path to follow?
It wasn't a sure thing right away.
At times I went overboard
and just kept adding things.
Songs with tons of beats
and lots of additional stuff.
My friend Paul from Emptyset heard
some synthesizer stuff and loved it.
So he wanted to make a record
with four songs like that.
For me they were just bits and pieces,
like separate tracks from different songs.
But that's when I understood...
When I started doing this
that's when the techno world
started showing appreciation.
Just when I stopped making techno!
So I slipped in through the backdoor.
By offering them something different?
Exactly, now I've learned
how to make techno!
What was key in learning this?
Simplifying things, and not overproducing.
I often think that young people who have
just discovered something new
make the best dance music.
Not just dance music,
but other music as well.
But if we use dance music
as an example,
before you know your way
around a program
you just add a kick, hi-hat and a synth line,
and that's enough to make you super excited.
The energy is tangible.
It's the same thing with hip-hop.
You get this simplicity with just
a drum machine or something.
Run D.M.C. was just
a drum machine and two voices.
But the energy is crazy
and the creative joy is there.
The same thing goes for punk.
It's right in your face.
I think it's so much fun
to discover new music
and on my label I try
to release quite a lot of new artists.
I like the raw and
straightforward approach.
I had spent some time producing others,
but I struggled with it myself.
But when I scaled down
and started from the beginning
that's when I found the right feeling.
Punk, hip-hop and electronic music
have all had their pioneering moments.
The most important thing isn't
to keep the same old sound
but simply that you do something,
and find the joy of creating music.
And then the listener gets
to determine if they like it or not.
But these genres are all past their
initial phase where everything's exciting.
Punk goes way back in trying to find
its roots, and the same thing with hip-hop.
And now dance music
has passed a threshold
but will it be able to find its way back
to a simpler and more pure spirit?
I think so. That's what's so cool today,
with all music history being available.
If I hear an artist for the first time,
the first thing I do is research them.
This kind of information
remained a mystery in the past.
"Who is Stereo Lab?"
But I know that today.
I can find the entire discography
in an instant.
So today you can get this information
in an instant.
I still get excited
by new techno today.
Like the gig we did last Monday morning. 
You get incredibly energized.
We played 8 hours.
You get tired,
but you also get tons of energy.
Once you get off stage, do you
feel like you've gotten ideas
for other productions?
-Definitely.
That's what I mean. At first you groan
about having to get up at 4AM
to go to Basel and DJ for three hours.
The body objects once you're older
and have small kids.
But almost every time it's like an injection
of energy that lasts for a couple of days.
It's really cool.
-So it's worth it?
-Definitely!
It's evident that you've played the guitar
and played around with pedals.
Another project that has released
a few albums is Roll the Dice,
with you and Malcolm Pardon.
How would you describe
your process when you started?
We ended up in the same studio
13 years ago.
He's a few years older than me
and has played in bands on
a professional level during the 90s.
He's produced artists, and worked
in film and TV for the past 15 years.
We ended up in the same studio...
-Was that Five Guys and a Dog?
-Exactly. It doesn't have a name anymore.
We became friends and wanted
to do something together.
One good thing is that his
technical skills are basically nonexistent.
He can barely update his email.
No, not quite that bad...
So he was in charge of the musical part
and I was in charge of the sound.
I had bought an analog sequencer.
I added pulses
that he accompanied with piano.
He's not a pianist. He just knew
the basics, so that made it quite simple.
It wasn't about being a virtuoso.
Even if the piano is an acoustic instrument
you still use it in the same way
as a computer by adding notes.
We've made three, four albums
and since then moved away from this.
At first we were quite strict
about only using synth and piano.
But then we moved on from that.
We've worked with orchestras and such.
Our goal has been to...
It's our side project!
But we want to go to strange places
and end up in fun situations.
We've been successful in that
during the years.
- And booking strange gigs?
- Strange gigs, definitely.
Our next gig this fall is at
the Film Festival in Wroclaw.
Didn't expect that...
We've moved this in various directions.
Lately we've felt a bit tired of ourselves,
so instead of making another album
we decided to make single tracks
with various artists.
We've worked together for ten years,
so we invited a third party.
Instead of releasing another album
we've released any finished song
right away in a digital format.
We've made four, five songs like that,
and a few more are on the way.
I find it interesting that the techno that
you've created is very heavy and electric.
It's very rhythmic,
but also quite restrained.
It describes a slow and sluggish process,
which I find interesting.
Piano is great in that way, it can be
both melodic and rhythmic at once.
You can strip it down
and scale down.
Things can play multiple parts,
not just melody, but also
rhythm and counterpoint rhythms.
Our biggest difference is that we don't
hear the same thing at the same place.
We hear different rhythms in our heads.
It's really exciting, because we
can't explain it to each other.
That makes it very exciting.
Do you need to have a clear idea
before you get started?
No, but it helps.
Sometimes I just come up with
a silly title that gets me excited.
One record is called Sissel & Bass,
on which my friend Sissel Wincent sings.
It's an old sample from my big brother's
old records, "Bass!"
And then a kick at the same time.
I had that stuck in my head.
I don't know where the name came from,
but that became the title.
Just a stupid idea...
I have tons of plans
that I try to complete
but sometimes it comes out of nowhere.
In my own productions I like finding
vocal samplings and then just repeating them.
I'm still fascinated by doing that.
Using voices in electronic music
creates something really special.
It works on the dance floor as well.
It's almost like an instrument, but your
mind makes something more of it.
This weekend, we played
at 140 BPM all night.
Once you've played heavy techno
for a longer period of time
and then you suddenly introduce vocals
something happens in the minds
of the audience.
The biggest thing in techno
is that women play now too.
Ten years ago,
no women were allowed to DJ.
Today, it's not possible to have a club event
in Europe with an all-male lineup.
That has changed
the energy level completely.
From just having a bunch of dudes fiddling
with synthesizers and computers
you open up to the rest
of the population
which gives it a completely
different energy level.
I was almost fed up with techno
a few years ago, but now it's fun again.
You've also shaken things up
and made people react to things.
Such as the track called
"Toxic Masculinity Has To Go Away"
which is an example of this club culture,
but also of male behavior.
What I mean is that it isn't evident
that I should be here.
As a white, middle-aged man
from the north of Europe
I'm already at the top of the pyramid.
Why should I take up this space?
That's what it's all about.
As an artist, you claim space.
"Look at me!
This is my space and territory".
There are different ways to do this.
I feel compelled to
invite others into this space.
It's easy to only look out for
the space that I've created for myself.
You cling to it like it's your own fort.
New things will keep on coming
and they will move things forward.
When that happens, instead of being
scared you should open up to it.
We're going to open the floor to questions.
Does anyone have a question?
Your sub basslines are always up at 60 Hz.
Is there a reason for that?
-Because it sounds good?
-Nice.
I don't know.
You mean inside this room?
I've just thought about it in general.
The bass is what I always
struggle with most.
That's the good thing with working with Pär.
He really knows how to add a kick.
I'm almost there,
when it comes to adding a kick.
Working with the sub bass is difficult.
It depends on what
you want to accomplish.
A buzzing or something with momentum.
In this song, there is
something moving it forward.
Bass is a genre of its own.
You mentioned that the record
with Blonde Redhead failed.
Question one: In what way did it fail?
We simply got a bad review at Pitchfork.
"OK, that's it, we're done
working with this record".
Question two: They got a boost when
two songs were featured in Rick and Morty.
Really, I didn't know that!
I was wondering
if you had noticed that?
I know that that particular song has
been played on Spotify 32 million times.
Great for them!
So you hadn't noticed...?
I guess it's not from the record we did?
No, I think it's from Misery...
What was the name of the record you did?
It was called Penny Sparkle,
also the name of her horse.
The title song is about the horse.
I love that. A band that
has released six or seven albums
and has been dropped
by a recording company
suddenly finds a new audience.
That would've never happened before.
What's your vision
regarding the future of techno?
Do you think it will become
more mainstream than it is today?
Will it go the same way as house music?
What do you think?
I don't know... It depends on
where you are in the world.
It's in one way in Sweden
and in Germany and Holland
it's been mainstream since the 90s.
Techno is almost like dance band music.
It has a function.
It's like elevator music for a club,
to put it frankly.
It's not like writing
a song from your heart.
Instead it has a purpose,
to make people dance to it.
That framework is quite restricted.
Techno and house are restricted
to 4/4 and a BPM of about 130.
The latest thing in techno is a higher BPM.
We played at 140 BPM this weekend.
A few years ago,
you would never go over 130 BPM.
In the 90s, the level was raised to 142 BPM
and then it went down again.
But now it's going up once more.
There's a lot of gabber stuff coming now.
People jump to the beat.
That's one of the great things.
It's not about moving the vinyl
records like you did before.
It's the same with the guitar.
You just stand there and move
in the same way the entire time.
At that time, you had to work
in a certain way when doing the mixing.
"I know how to mix, I'm so awesome…"
That doesn't matter today.
My mom can do the mixing.
It's completely different, and it
introduces other kinds of people.
I played in Belgrade two weeks ago
with a young guy from Croatia.
He was just insane. He played
gutted soundscape stuff,
jungle at 200BPM and then switched
to hip-hop at half the speed...
It was insane.
That would've been impossible
a few years back.
This is thanks to the CDJs.
You can play stuff at the wrong speed
and mix it, and make it work.
I love it, it's great.
Regarding your workflow,
do you work in a certain way?
For a long time I worked mostly with
synthesizers and hardware
but that restricts you to a studio
that has all the things that you need
in order to make a song.
So for the past five years
I've mostly used my computer and Ableton.
I work with lots of samples.
I have quite a large library
that I can use.
Just get those samples in there
and get started.
Then I might edit that in various ways,
but I try to make a loop quite fast
and then I can make variations of it
in order to turn it into a song.
I have to get started quite fast
in order to be able to move on.
The process can vary quite a lot.
But simply put, about four
simple loops in Ableton.
Does that answer your question?
That's the base for me, and depending
on the project you can tweak it after that.
I always use the computer for mixing.
Using a mixing console
only makes it about 2% better.
It's too much of a hassle.
It doesn't make that much
of a difference. It's like,
"I have to go
to the studio to mix this".
Or I can just do it right now
while I'm at the computer anyway.
That's my workflow.
Over there?
Maybe it's a boring question, but I want
to know about your work-life balance?
Since techno used to be more underground
and it involves late nights
and lots of travels.
When it comes to kids and financial stability,
how do you make it work?
Where do you make your money from?
From the record label, from gigs?
It's difficult to make it work
when you have kids and a family.
It's not just about you.
I only make money from gigs.
I have to do gigs to make money.
Releasing music pretty much breaks even.
Gigs pay my monthly salary.
Other bonuses might turn up,
like when I'm in a TV series.
But you can't depend on that.
It's all about the gigs
when it comes to money.
It's a bit tricky to make it work.
You also have to take time off
during the work week
in order to ground yourself.
I have many friends in Berlin, and
over there they live like this constantly.
It's easy to lose perspective on things.
For me, things started to fall into
the right place when I had my kids
and when things became more structured.
Before that I could spend hours
making 14-minute songs,
"But it's supposed to be that long!"
Today it's down to three
and a half minute.
Who wants to listen to a song
that's 14 minutes long? I don't!
Why should I demand that from others?
The time limitation is
a positive thing for me.
I just have to get it done.
You can't afford to sit around
contemplating your navel.
-A worthy finish!
-Great.
-You can't afford that anymore.
-That's my plan after this, however...
-Thank you so much, Peder Mannerfelt!
-Thank you.
