>>ANNOUNCER: TODAY ON
THE JOHN ANKERBERG SHOW:
WHERE DID WE COME FROM?
HOW DID WE GET HERE?
WHAT BROUGHT US INTO
EXISTENCE? IN MOST HIGH
SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES,
CHARLES DARWIN'S THEORY OF
EVOLUTION IS PRESENTED AS
AN ESTABLISHED FACT OF
SCIENCE RATHER THAN A THEORY.
BUT TODAY, MANY LEADING
SCIENTISTS IN THEIR PEER
REVIEW LITERATURE ARE
REJECTING DARWIN'S THEORY,
FOR MANY REASONS, ONE OF
THE MOST IMPORTANT BEING
THE CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION OF
ANIMALS WHERE COMPLEX, FULLY
FORMED ANIMALS SUDDENLY JUST
APPEARED IN THE FOSSIL RECORD
WITH NO PRIOR ANCESTORS
BEFORE THEM.
WHY DO SOME SCIENTISTS
BELIEVE THAT THESE ANIMALS
PRESENT COMPELLING EVIDENCE
OF AN ALL POWERFUL DESIGNING
INTELLIGENCE IN THE HISTORY
OF LIFE. MY GUEST TODAY IS
DR. STEPHEN MEYER WHO
RECEIVED HIS PH.D IN
THE PHILOSOPHY OF SCIENCE FROM
CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY AND IS
THE AUTHOR OF THE BEST-
SELLING BOOKS, "DARWIN'S
DOUBT". WE INVITE YOU
TO JOIN US.
>>JOHN ANKERBERG: WELCOME TO
OUR PROGRAM.
I AM JOHN ANKERBERG.
THANKS FOR JOINING ME.
OUR TOPIC IS:
WHY ARE MANY SCIENTISTS TODAY
REJECTING THE STANDARD
TEXTBOOK THEORY OF EVOLUTION
KNOWN AS NEO-DARWINISM
AND WHERE DID THE PROBLEMS
WITH THE CONTEMPORARY
EVOLUTION THEORY BEGIN?
AND DR. MEYER,
I'M REALLY GLAD THAT YOU'RE
HERE. AND I WANT TO START
THIS PROGRAM BY ASKING YOU
TO EXPLAIN HOW THE FOSSIL
RECORD POSES A PROBLEM FOR
DARWINIAN EVOLUTION.
IT ACTUALLY POSES TWO BIG
PROBLEMS.
>>DR. STEPHEN MEYER: RIGHT,
WELL, WE'VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT A DOUBT THAT DARWIN HAD
ABOUT THE ADEQUACY OF HIS OWN
THEORY, ITS ABILITY TO
EXPLAIN ALL THE EVIDENCE.
AND HIS DOUBT CONCERNED
A MAJOR EVENT IN THE HISTORY
OF LIFE, KNOWN AS
THE CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION, IN
WHICH THE FIRST MAJOR FORMS,
OR FIRST MAJOR GROUPS OF
COMPLEX ANIMALS AROSE VERY
ABRUPTLY IN THE FOSSIL
RECORD. AND THIS POSED
TWO PROBLEMS, TWO MYSTERIES,
THAT WERE REALLY UNRESOLVED
BY DARWINIAN THEORY.
THE FIRST I LIKE TO CALL
THE MYSTERY OF THE MISSING
FOSSILS. BECAUSE THESE
ANIMALS APPEAR VERY ABRUPTLY
IN THE CAMBRIAN LAYERS,
BUT AS YOU GO BACK INTO
THE LOWER PRE-CAMBRIAN STRATA
YOU DON'T FIND ANY EVIDENCE
OF THE ANCESTRAL FORMS OF
THOSE ANIMALS, THE SIMPLER
FORMS YOU WOULD EXPECT TO
FIND, ACCORDING TO DARWIN'S
THEORY. BECAUSE DARWIN
EXPECTED THAT THE FIRST
COMPLEX FORMS OF LIFE
WOULD HAVE EMERGED VERY
GRADUALLY AS THE RESULT OF
THE ACCUMULATION OF NUMEROUS
SLIGHT VARIATIONS OR
CHANGES, GENERATION TO
GENERATION. YOU JUST DON'T
SEE THE ACCUMULATION OF
THOSE CHANGES IN THE LOWER
STRATA.
>>ANKERBERG: SO THAT WAS
A PROBLEM.
>>MEYER: THAT WAS A BIG
PROBLEM. BUT THERE'S
AN EVEN MORE FUNDAMENTAL
PROBLEM, AND ONE THAT
WE'VE GROWN TO APPRECIATE
IN MUCH MORE DEPTH IN
THE 20TH CENTURY AND
21ST CENTURY, AND THAT'S
ESSENTIALLY AN ENGINEERING
PROBLEM. HOW WOULD
THE EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS
HAVE BUILT THESE COMPLEX
FORMS OF ANIMAL LIFE,
ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY AROSE
SO ABRUPTLY IN SUCH A NARROW
WINDOW OF GEOLOGIC TIME?
AND THAT'S IN MY BOOK I LOOK
AT BOTH OF THOSE TWO
MYSTERIES. BUT THE SECOND
MYSTERY IS MORE FUNDAMENTAL.
AND IT'S GROWN VERY MUCH
MORE ACUTE BECAUSE OF THINGS
THAT WE'VE DISCOVERED IN
MODERN BIOLOGY SINCE
THE, DURING THE SECOND HALF
OF THE 20TH CENTURY, OR SINCE
THE 1950'S; AND IN PARTICULAR
THINGS THAT WE'VE DISCOVERED
ABOUT THE INFORMATION-BEARING
PROPERTIES OF LIVING
ORGANISMS AND
THE INFORMATION-BEARING
PROPERTIES OF THE AMAZING
MOLECULE KNOWN AS DNA.
>>ANKERBERG: YEAH, WHEN
CRICK AND WATSON CAME OUT
WITH THIS DISCOVERY, WHAT
DID THEY SHOW US?
>>MEYER: WELL, WATSON AND
CRICK MADE THE EXTRAORDINARY
DISCOVERY IN 1953 THAT IS,
YOU KNOW, WORLD RENOWNED.
IT WAS THE, THEY WERE ABLE
TO ELUCIDATE THE STRUCTURE
OF THE DNA MOLECULE AND THEY
SHOWED THAT THE DNA MOLECULE
HAD THIS FAMED DOUBLE-HELICAL
STRUCTURE WITH FOUR CHEMICALS
RUNNING ALONG THE INSIDE
OF THAT HELIX.
AND AS MOST OF US LEARNED IN
BIOLOGY CLASS AT SOME POINT,
THE DNA IS A MOLECULE THAT
CONTAINS HEREDITARY
INFORMATION AND IT HAS
A HELICAL STRUCTURE.
ALONG THE OUTSIDE THERE IS
THIS WINDING LADDER, DOUBLE
HELIX LADDER, MADE OF SUGAR
AND PHOSPHATE. ON THE INSIDE
OF THE MOLECULE THERE ARE
THESE FOUR CHEMICALS CALLED
BASES OR NUCLEOTIDE BASES.
AND IN 1957, FOUR YEARS
AFTER THE STRUCTURE WAS
DISCERNED, FRANCIS CRICK PUT
FORWARD, I THINK WHAT WAS
ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
HYPOTHESES IN THE HISTORY
OF SCIENCE; IT'S CALLED
THE SEQUENCE HYPOTHESIS.
AND WHAT CRICK PROPOSED WAS
THAT THESE FOUR CHEMICALS
THAT CHEMISTS REPRESENT WITH
THE LETTERS A, T, G, AND C,
ARE ACTUALLY FUNCTIONING
LIKE ALPHABETIC LETTERS IN
A WRITTEN TEXT OR LIKE ZEROS
AND ONES IN A SECTION OF
COMPUTER CODE. THAT IS
TO SAY, IT'S NOT THEIR
CHEMICAL SHAPE OR STRUCTURE
THAT MATTERS. WHAT MATTERS
IS THE ARRANGEMENT OF
THOSE CHEMICALS, SUCH THAT
THEY ARE ABLE TO CONVEY
INSTRUCTIONS FOR BUILDING
ALL THE IMPORTANT PROTEINS
AND PROTEIN MACHINES THAT
KEEP CELLS ALIVE.
SO WHAT YOU HAVE ON THE DNA
MOLECULE IS LITERALLY
DIGITAL CODE THAT IS GOING
TO... THAT PROVIDES
INSTRUCTIONS FOR BUILDING
THE CRUCIAL PARTS OF CELLS
THAT ALLOW ALL LIFE TO EXIST.
>>ANKERBERG: WHEN YOU GO
DOWN THAT SPINE, HOW MUCH
INFORMATION IS THERE?
>> MEYER: WELL, IN THE HUMAN
GENOME THERE'S ABOUT THREE
BILLION NUCLEOTIDES AND EVEN
ON A SINGLE...
IN A SINGLE ONE-CELLED
ORGANISM THERE IS ENOUGH
INFORMATION TO BUILD,
A MINIMALLY COMPLEX
ONE-CELLED ORGANISM REQUIRES
ABOUT 500, 400-500
PROTEINS. AND THAT'S GOING TO
COMPUTE TO SEVERAL HUNDRED
THOUSAND WHAT ARE CALLED
BASE PAIRS OR INDIVIDUAL
NUCLEOTIDE LETTERS IN THAT,
IN THAT GENETIC MESSAGE.
>>ANKERBERG: THAT ALL HAVE
TO BE ARRANGED PRECISELY.
>>MEYER: THEY HAVE TO BE
ARRANGED PRECISELY SO THAT
THE INSTRUCTION SET WILL
DIRECT THE CONSTRUCTION OF
THESE PROTEINS, THESE
VARIOUS KINDS OF PROTEINS
THAT ARE NEEDED TO KEEP
CELLS ALIVE. AND PROTEINS
ARE ESSENTIALLY THE TOOLBOX
OF THE CELL THAT: SOME OF
THEM PROCESS INFORMATION;
SOME OF THEM BUILD STRUCTURAL
PARTS, LITTLE MINIATURE
MACHINES WE'RE DISCOVERING
INSIDE CELLS.
THERE ARE LITERALLY LITTLE
TINY MACHINES IN THE FORM
OF NANOTECHNOLOGY, SLIDING
CLAMPS AND ROTARY ENGINES
AND ROBOTIC WALKING
PROTEINS. AND THEN SOME
PROTEINS CATALYZE REACTIONS.
THESE ARE THE ENZYMES THAT
WE HEAR ABOUT. SO PROTEINS
DO ALL THE JOBS THAT KEEP
CELLS ALIVE AND
ANIMALS ALIVE. BUT THEY ARE
ONLY... THEY CAN ONLY BE BUILT
IF THE INSTRUCTION SET IS
RIGHT; AND THAT INSTRUCTION
SET IS STORED IN DNA.
>>ANKERBERG: BUT EVEN BILL
GATES WHEN HE LOOKED AT
THIS, WHAT DID HE SAY?
>>MEYER: WELL, BILL GATES
HAS SAID THAT DNA IS LIKE
A SOFTWARE PROGRAM, ONLY MUCH
MORE COMPLEX THAN ANY WE'VE
EVER BEEN ABLE TO CREATE.
AND MANY OTHER...
MANY BIOLOGISTS HAVE MADE
SIMILAR OBSERVATIONS.
THE FAMED BIOTECH PIONEER,
LEROY HOOD, HAS SAID VERY,
VERY DIRECTLY THAT DNA
CONTAINS DIGITAL CODE.
>>ANKERBERG: ALRIGHT,
EXPLAIN HOW DNA RELATES TO
THE CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION AND
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
>>MEYER: WELL, RIGHT.
I USED TO ASK MY STUDENTS
A QUESTION, AND...
IF YOU WANT TO GIVE
YOUR COMPUTER A NEW FUNCTION,
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO GIVE IT?
AND THEY'D SAY, WELL, CODE
OR INSTRUCTIONS OR SOFTWARE
OR INFORMATION, AND ALL
THOSE ARE CORRECT ANSWERS.
AND IT TURNS OUT THAT
THE SAME THING IS TRUE IN
LIFE. IF YOU WANT TO BUILD
A NEW FORM OF LIFE FROM
A SIMPLER PRE-EXISTING FORM
OF LIFE, YOU NEED NEW
INFORMATION. OR RATHER,
TO PUT IT MORE PRECISELY,
THE EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS
WOULD NEED TO GENERATE
NEW INFORMATION, NEW CODE.
AND THAT RAISES A BIG
QUESTION.
HOW DOES IT DO THAT?
HOW WOULD IT DO THAT?
HOW COULD IT DO THAT?
AND ONE OF THE REASONS
THAT'S SUCH A BIG PROBLEM,
A BIG QUESTION, IS THAT
THE MECHANISM,
THE EVOLUTIONARY MECHANISM,
THE DRIVING FORCE OF
THE EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS,
IS THOUGHT TO BE NATURAL
SELECTION ACTING ON RANDOM
GENETIC MUTATIONS, CHANGES,
RANDOM CHANGES, IN
THE ARRANGEMENTS OF A'S, C'S,
G'S AND T'S, THE DIGITAL
CHARACTERS IN THE DNA
MOLECULE. BUT WHAT WE KNOW
FROM EXPERIENCE, EXPERIENCE
OF COMPUTER CODE FOR EXAMPLE,
IS THAT IF YOU START MAKING
RANDOM CHANGES TO DIGITAL
CHARACTERS IN A MESSAGE-
BEARING SEQUENCE,
YOU'RE GOING TO DEGRADE
THE INFORMATION THAT'S
PRESENT IN THAT SEQUENCE LONG
BEFORE YOU'RE EVER GOING TO
GENERATE SOMETHING
FUNDAMENTALLY NEW AND USEFUL.
I MEAN, JUST ASK YOURSELF
A QUESTION: IF YOU'RE
A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER;
IF YOU'VE GOT A FUNCTIONING
COMPUTER PROGRAM AND YOU
START RANDOMLY CHANGING
ZERO'S AND ONE'S, ARE YOU
GOING TO GENERATE A NEW
PROGRAM OR OPERATING SYSTEM,
OR ARE YOU GOING TO, GOING TO
INTRODUCE GLITCHES AND BUGS
INTO THE PROGRAM
YOU ALREADY HAVE?
>>ANKERBERG: YEAH, ALL OUR
TECHIES IN THE ROOM ARE
SAYING, KEEP THE BUGS AWAY.
>>MEYER: YEAH.
KEEP THE BUGS AWAY.
AND SO THERE'S SOMETHING
FUNDAMENTALLY DISQUIETING,
FROM THE STANDPOINT OF
INFORMATION SCIENCE, ABOUT
THE IDEA THAT RANDOM CHANGES
IN A FUNCTIONAL SECTION OF
CODE OR TEXT COULD GENERATE
SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY NEW.
AND SO THAT'S BEEN A KIND OF
GENERAL CONCERN THAT
SCIENTISTS HAVE HAD ABOUT
THE CREATIVE POWER OF
THE DARWINIAN MECHANISM.
CAN THE DARWINIAN MECHANISM
OF NATURAL SELECTION AND
RANDOM MUTATION REALLY
GENERATE NEW FUNCTIONAL
CODE? BECAUSE TO BUILD
A NEW ANIMAL, YOU NEED
NEW CODE. YOU NEED NEW DNA
WITH DIGITAL INFORMATION
STORED IN THOSE MOLECULES.
>>ANKERBERG: ALRIGHT,
LET'S GO TO THE CLIP WHERE
YOU SHOW WHAT IS HAPPENING
IN THE CELL AND HOW IT'S
PROGRAMMED WITH THIS CODE.
>>MEYER: HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN
THE ORIGIN OF THE CAMBRIAN
ANIMALS SEEMINGLY OUT OF
NOWHERE? THIS ISN'T JUST
A PROBLEM OF EXPLAINING
THE ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IN
THE FOSSIL RECORD, IT'S ALSO
A PROBLEM OF EXPLAINING
EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT LIFE
RIGHT DOWN TO THE LEVEL OF
MOLECULES AND CELLS.
>>NARRATOR: THE BIOLOGICAL
STRUCTURE OF A CAMBRIAN
TRILOBITE WAS AS COMPLEX AND
SOPHISTICATED AS A MODERN
CRAB. ITS ORGANS INCLUDED
A BRAIN, GUT, HEART, AND
COMPOUND EYES. EACH ORGAN
WAS CONSTRUCTED FROM
SPECIFIC TYPES OF CELLS.
EACH CELL TYPE WAS MADE FROM
DOZENS OF SPECIALIZED
PROTEIN MOLECULES.
AND EACH PROTEIN WAS
ASSEMBLED FROM A FOUR-LETTER
CHEMICAL CODE IN A SECTION
OF DNA CALLED A GENE.
>>MEYER: NOW, FOR
THE EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS TO
TRANSFORM A SIMPLY
PRE-CAMBRIAN ORGANISM LIKE
A SPONGE WITH FOUR OR FIVE
CELL TYPES INTO A CAMBRIAN
TRILOBITE WITH AT LEAST TEN
TIMES THAT MANY DIFFERENT
TYPES OF CELLS, THAT'S
A HUGE LEAP IN COMPLEXITY.
AND TO MAKE THAT LEAP YOU
NEED A VAST AMOUNT OF NEW
GENETIC INFORMATION.
WHERE DOES THAT INFORMATION
COME FROM? THAT'S THE CENTRAL
MYSTERY OF THE CAMBRIAN
EXPLOSION.
>>ANKERBERG: SO DR. MEYER,
HELP US UNDERSTAND THIS.
GO BACK TO THIS THING NOW
OF CHANCE. I THINK MURRAY
EDEN AT WISTAR INSTITUTE
CALLED A CONFERENCE IN
THE 1960'S, AND HE WAS
A MATHEMATICIAN.
AND HE CALLED EVOLUTIONARY
BIOLOGISTS, AND HE HAD
PEOPLE THAT WERE WORKING ON
THE ATOMIC BOMB. HE HAD
ALL KINDS OF SCIENTISTS
THERE, AND HE HAD A QUESTION
THAT WAS BUGGING HIM.
WHAT WAS IT?
>>MEYER: WELL, MURRAY EDEN
WAS A COMPUTER SCIENTIST AT
MIT. AND THERE WAS A PICNIC
IN 1965 WHERE THE COMPUTER
SCIENTISTS AND THE PHYSICISTS
AND THE MATHEMATICIANS AND
THE ENGINEERS WERE TALKING
WITH THEIR BIOLOGY COLLEAGUES
OVER LUNCH. AND ALL THESE
SCIENTISTS WITH MATHEMATICAL
TRAINING WERE EXPRESSING
SKEPTICISM ABOUT THE CREATIVE
POWER OF THE MUTATION
SELECTION MECHANISM.
THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT IT
COULD GENERATE NEW GENETIC
INFORMATION ON THE SCALE
THAT WAS REQUIRED TO EXPLAIN
THINGS LIKE THE CAMBRIAN
EXPLOSION. AND THEIR MAIN
REASON FOR THINKING THAT WAS
THEY REALIZED THAT RANDOM
CHANGES IN ANY, WHAT THEY
SAID, IN ANY FORMAL LANGUAGE
SYSTEM, WILL INEVITABLY
DEGRADE MEANING. AND THAT IS
BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT MORE
WAYS TO GO WRONG THAN
THERE ARE TO GO RIGHT.
IF ANYONE'S PLAYED SCRABBLE
AND YOU HAVE A PILE OF
LETTERS, YOU KNOW THAT IF
YOU JUST REACH IN AND START
PICKING THE LETTERS OUT AT
RANDOM, YOU'RE OVERWHELMINGLY
MORE LIKELY TO GET GIBBERISH
THAN YOU ARE TO GET A WORD.
AND THAT'S ACTUALLY BECAUSE
PEOPLE HAVE WORKED OUT
THE MATH ON THIS: THE RATIO
OF FUNCTIONAL WORDS FOR ANY,
OF ANY GIVEN LENGTH TO
THE RATIO OF SEQUENCES OF
CHARACTERS THAT GIVE YOU
GIBBERISH IS REALLY MINUSCULE.
IN THE CASE OF A 12 LETTER
WORD I THINK THE RATIO IS
ONE OVER A HUNDRED TRILLION,
ONE WORD FOR EVERY HUNDRED
TRILLION ARRANGEMENTS OF
CHARACTERS THAT GIVE YOU
NOTHING BUT GIBBERISH.
SO IF YOU START WITH A WORD,
OR START WITH A SECTION OF
FUNCTIONAL GENETIC TEXTS, OR
SECTION OF COMPUTER CODE,
AND YOU START RANDOMLY
CHANGING IT, YOU'RE
OVERWHELMINGLY MORE LIKELY
TO END UP WITH GIBBERISH;
BECAUSE MOST OF
THE SEQUENCES ARE GIBBERISH.
AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM THAT
THE ENGINEERS WERE CONCERNED
ABOUT AT WISTAR.
AND SO THIS IS JUST NOT
A GOOD WAY TO THINK ABOUT
HOW GENETIC INFORMATION
ORIGINATED. THIS MECHANISM
SIMPLY IS UNLIKELY TO PRODUCE
ANYTHING GOOD IN THE TIME
WE HAVE AVAILABLE.
>>ANKERBERG: OR, AS MURRAY
EDEN SAYS, IT'S IMPROBABLE.
IT PROBABLY COULDN'T HAPPEN.
>>MEYER: IT'S IMPROBABLE ON
A COSMIC SCALE.
[LAUGHTER]
>>ANKERBERG: ALRIGHT, LETS
GO TO THE CLIP WHERE YOU
SHOW WHAT IS HAPPENING IN
THE CELL AND HOW ITS
PROGRAMMED WITH THIS CODE.
>>NARRATOR: IN 1957 FRANCIS
CRICK FIRST PROPOSED THAT
CHEMICALS, CALLED BASES,
ALONG THE SPINE OF THE DNA
MOLECULE FUNCTION AS
ALPHABETIC CHARACTERS IN
A WRITTEN LANGUAGE OR DIGITAL
CHARACTERS IN A MACHINE
CODE. THIS ANIMATION
SHOWS HOW THIS DIGITAL
INFORMATION DIRECTS PROTEIN
SYNTHESIS. FIRST A LARGE
PROTEIN COMPLEX SEPARATES
THE TIGHTLY WOUND STRANDS OF
THE DNA TO PREPARE IT TO BE
COPIED. DURING THIS PROCESS
OF TRANSCRIPTION, A PROTEIN
COMPLEX CALLED A POLYMERASE
PRODUCES A SINGLE STRANDED
COPY OF THE ORIGINAL
INSTRUCTIONS.
HERE WE SEE THIS COPY,
THE MESSENGER RNA MOLECULE,
BEING CONSTRUCTED INSIDE
THE POLYMERASE, AS INDIVIDUAL
BASES ARE POSITIONED AND
ADDED TO THE GROWING STRAND.
NOW WE SEE THE POLYMERASE IN
ACTION FROM THE OUTSIDE, AS
IT SPITS OUT THE MESSENGER
RNA TRANSCRIPT.
NEXT, THIS RNA TRANSCRIPT
APPROACHES AND PASSES
THROUGH A MOLECULAR MACHINE
CALLED THE NUCLEAR PORE
COMPLEX, AN INFORMATION
RECOGNITION DEVICE THAT
CONTROLS THE FLOW OF
INFORMATION IN AND OUT OF
THE CELL'S NUCLEUS.
NOW WE SEE THE GENETIC
ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTIONS ON
THE MESSENGER RNA APPROACHING
AND ARRIVING AT A TWO-PART
CHEMICAL FACTORY CALLED
A RIBOSOME, THE SITE OF
PROTEIN SYNTHESIS.
AS THE MESSENGER RNA
TRANSCRIPT PASSES THROUGH
THE RIBOSOME, THE PROCESS OF
TRANSLATION BEGINS. DURING
TRANSLATION, A MECHANICAL
ASSEMBLY LINE BUILDS
A SPECIFICALLY SEQUENCED
CHAIN OF AMINO ACIDS IN
ACCORD WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS
ON THE TRANSCRIPT. THESE AMINO
ACIDS ARE TRANSPORTED FROM
OTHER PARTS OF THE CELL
BY MOLECULES CALLED TRANSFER
RNAS, WHICH LINK SPECIFIC
SEQUENCES OF BASES TO
CORRESPONDING AMINO ACIDS.
THE SEQUENTIAL ARRANGEMENT
OF THE AMINO ACIDS
DETERMINES THE TYPE OF
PROTEIN CONSTRUCTED.
WHEN THE CONSTRUCTION OF
THE CHAIN IS COMPLETE
IT IS TRANSPORTED TO
A BARREL-SHAPED MACHINE THAT
HELPS FOLD IT INTO
THE PRECISE SHAPE REQUIRED
TO PERFORM ITS FUNCTION.
AFTER THE CHAIN IS FOLDED
INTO A PROTEIN, IT IS
RELEASED INTO THE OUTER
CYTOPLASM TO DO ITS JOB
IN THE CELL.
>>ANKERBERG: NOW STEPHEN,
LOOKING AT THAT WONDERFUL
CLIP, I BET YOU THAT 85% OF
OUR AUDIENCE DIDN'T
UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WERE
LOOKING AT. BUT THEY DID
PICK UP A COUPLE OF THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL, ALL OF THAT
WAS HAPPENING IN ONE SINGLE
CELL. ALRIGHT, ALL OF
THOSE LITTLE MACHINES THAT
YOU WERE LOOKING AT ARE
IN ONE LITTLE CELL;
THEY'RE INTERCONNECTED.
THEN THEY SAW CODE.
YOUR POINT IS IF THAT CODE'S
NOT RIGHT, THOSE MACHINES
AREN'T GOING TO DO THEIR
JOBS, BECAUSE THAT CODE,
THAT INFORMATION, MAKES THEM
DO WHAT THEY DO.
AND THE QUESTION YOU'RE
RAISING IS, WHERE DID THIS
COMPLEX CODE COME FROM?
>>MEYER: WELL, RIGHT.
AND WHAT WE'VE UNDERSTOOD
SINCE THE TIME OF WATSON AND
CRICK AND FROM WHAT'S
CALLED... THE PERIOD OF
THE 1950'S AND 60'S WHICH
WE NOW REFER TO AS
THE MOLECULAR BIOLOGICAL
REVOLUTION, IS THAT
INFORMATION IS RUNNING
THE SHOW INSIDE LIVING
SYSTEMS. IT'S A LITTLE BIT
LIKE WHAT GOES ON AT
THE BOEING PLANT UP IN SEATTLE
WHERE I LIVE WHERE
THE ENGINEERS USE
A TECHNOLOGY CALLED CAD-CAM,
COMPUTER ASSISTED DESIGN
AND MANUFACTURING, WHERE
AN ENGINEER WILL SIT AT
HIS OR HER CONSOLE,
WRITE SOME CODE FOR BUILDING
A PARTICULAR PART FOR
THE AIRPLANE WITH THE, AT
AN ASSEMBLY CENTER, AND
THE CODE WILL GO DOWN A WIRE.
IT WILL BE TRANSLATED INTO
ANOTHER MACHINE CODE THAT
CAN BE READ BY THE ASSEMBLY
CENTER. AND THEN, FOR EXAMPLE,
IF YOU'RE BUILDING AN AIRPLANE
WING THE ASSEMBLY ARM MAY
TAKE THE INSTRUCTIONS AND
PUT THE RIVETS AT EXACTLY
THE RIGHT PLACE IN ACCORD
WITH THE ENGINEER'S
INSTRUCTIONS. SO YOU HAVE
DIGITAL CODE BEING WRITTEN
BY AN ENGINEER DIRECTING
THE CONSTRUCTION OF
A MECHANICAL PART. AND INSIDE
CELLS, WHAT WE HAVE IS
DIGITAL INFORMATION DIRECTING
THE CONSTRUCTION NOT OF
AIRPLANE WINGS, BUT RATHER
OF PROTEINS, AND PROTEINS
AGAIN ARE THE TOOLBOX.
THEY'RE THE MOLECULES THAT
DO ALL THE IMPORTANT JOBS
INSIDE CELLS THAT KEEP US
ALIVE. SO THE RECOGNITION
THAT INFORMATION IS RUNNING
THE SHOW INSIDE LIVING SYSTEMS
HAS ALSO MADE US AWARE THAT
IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A NEW
FORM OF LIFE, LIKE
A CAMBRIAN ANIMAL, YOU'VE GOT
TO HAVE A LOT OF NEW
INFORMATION. EVERY NEW
CAMBRIAN ANIMAL REQUIRED
A BUNCH OF NEW DEDICATED
CELL TYPES. EACH TYPE OF CELL
REQUIRED DEDICATED PROTEINS.
EACH NEW TYPE OF PROTEIN
REQUIRES IN TURN NEW CODE.
SO THE CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION
ISN'T JUST AN EXPLOSION OF
NEW FORMS OF ANIMAL LIFE,
IT'S AN EXPLOSION OF
INFORMATION.
AND YET, THERE ARE REALLY
BIG REASONS TO DOUBT THAT
THE NEO-DARWINIAN MECHANISM
CAN GENERATE THAT NEW
INFORMATION.
AND IN MY BOOK "DARWIN'S
DOUBT," I GO INTO...
I EXPLAIN THE MATH AS TO WHY
IT'S SO INCREDIBLY IMPROBABLE
TO THINK THAT A RANDOM SEARCH
FOR NEW SECTIONS OF FUNCTIONAL
GENETIC TEXTS COULD PRODUCE,
EVEN ON THE SCALE OF
THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF LIFE,
EVEN ONE NEW GENE OR PROTEIN.
>>ANKERBERG: STEPHEN,
ILLUSTRATE THAT WITH YOUR
STORY ABOUT THE THIEF TRYING
TO BREAK INTO A LOCK.
>>MEYER: LET ME GIVE YOU
A HOMESPUN ILLUSTRATION.
IMAGINE WE'VE GOT A BIKE
OUTSIDE THE BUILDING HERE,
AND THERE IS A...
BUT IT'S LOCKED WITH A NICE
FOUR-DIAL BIKE LOCK.
IS IT MORE LIKELY THAT
A THIEF WILL BE ABLE TO OPEN
THE LOCK AS THE RESULT OF
A RANDOM SEARCH FOR
THE COMBINATION, OR IS IT
MORE LIKELY THAT THE THIEF
WILL FAIL? NOW, IN A WAY
IT'S A TRICK QUESTION, BECAUSE
IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH TIME
THE THIEF HAS TO TRY TO OPEN
THE COMBINATION.
WE KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT
OF DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS.
IN FACT, WITH A FOUR-DIAL
LOCK THERE'S 10 TIMES 10
TIMES 10 TIMES 10, OR 10,000
POSSIBLE ARRANGEMENTS OF
THOSE DIGITS, ONLY ONE OF
WHICH WILL OPEN THE LOCK.
IF THE THIEF ONLY HAS
A COUPLE MINUTES THE THIEF
WILL BY RANDOM MEANS ONLY BE
ABLE TO SAMPLE A VERY SMALL
NUMBER OF THOSE COMBINATIONS,
AND SO IT'S OVERWHELMINGLY
MORE LIKELY IN THAT CASE
THAT THE, THAT THE THIEF WILL
FAIL. BUT WE COULD IMAGINE
A SITUATION WHERE, SAY,
WE GAVE THE THIEF SEVERAL
DAYS TO DO IT, AND HE WAS ABLE
TO SAMPLE MORE THAN HALF OF
THE COMBINATIONS, IN WHICH
CASE IT WOULD BECOME MORE
LIKELY THAT HE WOULD SUCCEED
THAN HE WOULD FAIL.
BUT WHAT IF WE CHANGED
THE ILLUSTRATION A LITTLE BIT?
WHAT IF WE GIVE THE THIEF
THAT SAME, SAY, 24-HOUR
PERIOD, AND NOW WE CONFRONT
HIM WITH THIS LOCK, A LOCK
WITH TEN-DIALS ON IT.
WELL, WITH TEN-DIALS, YOU'RE
NOT JUST ADDING
COMBINATIONS; YOU'RE
MULTIPLYING BY 10 WITH EACH
NEW DIAL. SO FOR A TEN-DIAL
LOCK YOU ACTUALLY
HAVE 10 TO THE 10 POSSIBLE
COMBINATIONS, OR TEN BILLION
COMBINATIONS. SO EVEN IN
A DAY, A FULL 24-HOUR PERIOD,
THE THIEF IS ONLY GOING TO
BE ABLE TO SAMPLE A VERY
TINY FRACTION OF THAT TOTAL
TEN BILLION. SO IN THAT CASE
IT'S OVERWHELMINGLY MORE
LIKELY THAT A RANDOM SEARCH
WILL FAIL TO FIND
THE MEANINGFUL COMBINATION
THAT WILL OPEN THE LOCK.
NOW, THE QUESTION IN BIOLOGY
IS, IS THE SITUATION FOR
FINDING A NEW GENE OR PROTEIN
MORE LIKE THE FIRST CASE,
WHERE THE LOCK HAS
A REASONABLY SMALL NUMBER
OF COMBINATIONS IN RELATION
TO THE TIME AVAILABLE,
OR IS IT MORE LIKE THE SECOND
CASE, WHERE THE NUMBER OF
COMBINATIONS IS SO VAST
THAT EVEN WITH A GREAT DEAL
OF TIME THERE'S NOT GOING
TO BE ENOUGH TIME TO SAMPLE
MORE THAN A SMALL FRACTION
OF THE COMBINATIONS?
>>ANKERBERG: WHAT IS IT?
>>MEYER: WELL, IT TURNS OUT
THAT THE BIOLOGICAL SYSTEM
CONFRONTING US IS NOT LIKE
THE FOUR-DIAL LOCK WITH
THE DAY, IT'S MUCH MORE LIKE
THE TEN-DIAL LOCK. IN FACT,
THERE'S A SCIENTIST NAMED
DOUGLAS AXE WHO HAS GIVEN
A VERY PRECISE ESTIMATE
OF THIS. AND HE HAS SHOWN
THAT IT'S MUCH MORE LIKE
A BIKE LOCK WITH 77 DIALS,
WHICH IS, FOR EVERY
FUNCTIONAL ARRANGEMENT
OF THOSE LETTERS IN THE DNA
CODE, THERE ARE 10 TO
THE 77TH ARRANGEMENTS THAT
WILL GIVE YOU GIBBERISH;
THAT IS A NONFUNCTIONING,
NON-FOLDING AMINO ACID
CHANGE RATHER THAN
A FUNCTIONAL PROTEIN.
AND SO WITH THAT MANY
COMBINATIONS TO SEARCH, EVEN
IF YOU HAVE 3.5 BILLION OR
4 BILLION YEARS OF BIOLOGICAL
HISTORY TO DO THE SEARCHING
BY A RANDOM MEANS, YOU'RE
NOT GOING TO HAVE ENOUGH
TIME TO SAMPLE BUT A SMALL
LITTLE FRACTION OF
THE DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS.
AND SO IT'S GOING TO BE
OVERWHELMINGLY MORE LIKELY
THAT A RANDOM SEARCH, ONE
RELYING ON RANDOM MUTATION,
WILL FAIL TO FIND EVEN ONE
FUNCTIONAL GENE OR PROTEIN
IN THE KNOWN HISTORY OF LIFE
ON EARTH. THAT'S THE UPSHOT
OF AXE'S CALCULATIONS.
AND I GO INTO THIS AND
EXPLAIN THIS IN MORE DETAIL
IN THE BOOK "DARWIN'S DOUBT."
>>ANKERBERG: YEAH.
WE ALL KIND OF GREW UP IN
PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND WERE
TAUGHT THAT EVOLUTION, LIFE
AROSE BY CHANCE, OKAY.
>>ANKERBERG: BUT I CAN HEAR
SOME FOLKS SAYING, YOU KNOW,
THERE'S A SMALL PROBABILITY
THAT THIS COULD HAVE
HAPPENED, SO WHY ISN'T IT
POSSIBLE?
>>MEYER: WELL, PEOPLE WILL
LOOK AT A NUMBER LIKE ONE
CHANCE IN 10 TO
THE 77TH POWER, AND THEY'LL
SAY, "AH, SO THERE'S A FINITE
PROBABILITY THAT A NEW GENE
OR PROTEIN COULD ARISE IN
THE KNOWN HISTORY OF LIFE
ON EARTH." AND I, I, I,...
THERE'S A FLAW IN THAT
REASONING. WE CAN NEVER SAY
ANYTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE
BECAUSE THERE'S ALWAYS
A FINITE PROBABILITY OF
ANY EVENT HAPPENING.
BUT THE QUESTION IS WHETHER
OR NOT THIS IS A GOOD
EXPLANATION OR A BAD
EXPLANATION. AND I HAVE
AN ILLUSTRATION FOR WHY
THIS IS A BAD EXPLANATION.
THERE'S A FAMOUS COMIC NAMED
JIM CARREY, WHO, IN
A PARTICULAR MOVIE, IS PLAYING
A CHARACTER WHO'S KIND OF
A GOOBER. AND HE APPROACHES
A YOUNG LADY THAT HE FANCIES
AND HE SAYS TO HER,
"WHAT ARE THE ODDS THAT
A GIRL LIKE ME AND A GUY
LIKE YOU COULD GET TOGETHER?"
AND HE BOTCHES HIS PICK-UP
LINE. AND SHE SAYS,
"WELL, NOT GOOD."
AND HE SAYS, "WHAT DO YOU
MEAN, NOT GOOD? LIKE ONE
IN A HUNDRED?" AND SHE SAYS,
"NO, LIKE ONE IN A MILLION."
AND HE STARTS JUMPING UP AND
DOWN AND HE GETS ALL EXCITED.
HE SAYS "OH, SO THERE'S
A CHANCE, THERE'S A CHANCE!"
AND I SOMETIMES THINK
THIS IS THE WAY OUR DARWINIST
FRIENDS REASON: THAT JUST
BECAUSE THERE'S A FINITE
PROBABILITY DOESN'T MEAN
THAT THE EVENT IS AT ALL
LIKELY TO HAPPEN.
AND IN THE CASE OF THE IDEA
THAT RANDOM MUTATIONS HAVE
GENERATED THE NEW GENETIC
INFORMATION THAT WE NEED,
IT'S OVERWHELMINGLY MORE
LIKELY THAT SUCH A MECHANISM
WILL FAIL THAN IT WILL
SUCCEED. AND SO,
THE HYPOTHESIS THAT SUCH
A MECHANISM SUCCEEDED IS
ACTUALLY OVERWHELMINGLY
MORE LIKELY TO BE FALSE THAN
TRUE. SO, IN SCIENCE WE DON'T
WANT TO CHOOSE A HYPOTHESIS
THAT'S MORE LIKELY TO BE
FALSE THAN TRUE.
WE WANT THE BEST AND MOST
LIKELY EXPLANATION.
SO CLEARLY WE SHOULD BE
LOOKING SOMEPLACE ELSE OTHER
THAN THE DARWINIAN MECHANISM
TO EXPLAIN THE ORIGIN OF
INFORMATION. YES,
THERE'S A FINITE PROBABILITY,
BUT IT'S OVERWHELMINGLY MORE
LIKELY THAT, THAT IS NOT
HOW IT HAPPENED, AND THEREFORE
WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR
A BETTER EXPLANATION.
>>ANKERBERG: ALRIGHT.
NOW YOU'VE LISTENED TO
WHAT STEPHEN HAS SAID TODAY.
AND NEXT WEEK'S PROGRAM
WE'RE GOING TO TEST THIS OUT
WITH WHAT EVOLUTIONARY
BIOLOGISTS ARE SAYING TODAY,
SUCH AS RICHARD DAWKINS.
THEY'RE SAYING THAT LIFE
STILL AROSE BY NATURAL
SELECTION AND RANDOM
MUTATION, AND WE'RE GOING TO
ILLUSTRATE WHAT THEY'RE
SAYING AND I'M GOING TO LET
YOU RESPOND TO IT NEXT WEEK.
SO, FOLKS, I HOPE YOU'LL
JOIN US THEN.
>>ANNOUNCER: IF YOU WOULD
LIKE TO HAVE ALL OF
THE INFORMATION IN OUR
NEW SERIES "THE MYSTERY OF
THE MISSING FOSSILS,"
FEATURING DR. STEPHEN MEYER,
ALL 4 HALF HOUR TELEVISION
PROGRAMS ARE AVAILABLE ON
DVD FOR A GIFT OF $49.
YOU WILL SEE THE ASTONISHING
EVIDENCE THAT HAS LED
SCIENTISTS TO CONCLUDE THAT
FULLY DEVELOPED, COMPLEX
ANIMALS SUDDENLY APPEARED ON
EARTH DURING THE CAMBRIAN
AGE, AND HAD NO PRIOR
ANCESTORS. AND WHY THIS
FOSSIL EVIDENCE GOES DIRECTLY
AGAINST CHARLES DARWIN'S
THEORY OF EVOLUTION. WHY
AN ALL-POWERFUL INTELLIGENT
DESIGNER IS A BETTER
SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION THAN
DARWINISM FOR THE SUDDEN
APPEARANCE OF FULLY FORMED
ANIMALS IN THE FOSSIL RECORD.
THE FOUR IMPORTANT PROGRAMS
IN THIS SERIES ARE AVAILABLE
ON DVD FOR A GIFT OF $49.
THEN OUR SECOND SERIES IS
ENTITLED "THE CASE FOR
INTELLIGENT DESIGN.
CHARLES DARWIN ADMITTED
HE DID NOT KNOW HOW THE FIRST
CELL CAME INTO EXISTENCE.
BUT TODAY, MOLECULAR
BIOLOGISTS HAVE DISCOVERED
THAT THE HUMAN CELL IS NOT
SIMPLE, BUT COMPLEX BEYOND
BELIEF. IN THE NUCLEUS
OF EACH CELL IS THE DNA
MOLECULE, WHICH CONTAINS
A STOREHOUSE OF 3 BILLION
CHARACTERS OF PRECISE
INFORMATION IN DIGITAL CODE.
THIS DIGITAL CODE IS CRUCIAL
TO THE ORIGIN AND FUNCTION
OF ALL PLANTS, ANIMALS AND
HUMANS. BUT WHERE DID
THIS COMPLEX DNA CODE COME
FROM? AND IS AN ALL-POWERFUL
INTELLIGENT DESIGNER A BETTER
SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION THAN
DARWINISM FOR THE GENETIC
INFORMATION FOUND IN
THE DNA MOLECULE.
THE 4 TELEVISION PROGRAMS
IN THIS SERIES ARE ALSO
AVAILABLE ON DVD FOR A GIFT
OF $49.
AND THEN THIRD, WE ARE MAKING
AVAILABLE THE DOCUMENTARY
MOVIE "DARWIN'S DILEMMA"
WHICH WILL TRANSPORT
YOU BY STATE-OF-THE-ART
COMPUTER ANIMATION BACK
IN TIME TO ONE OF THE GREAT
MYSTERIES IN THE HISTORY
OF LIFE: THE GEOLOGICALLY
SUDDEN APPEARANCE OF DOZENS
OF MAJOR COMPLEX ANIMAL TYPES
IN THE FOSSIL RECORD,
WITHOUT ANY TRACE OF
THE GRADUAL TRANSITION STEPS.
YOU WILL LEARN OF THE VAST
INTELLIGENCE GOD USED IN
METICULOUSLY CREATING AND
DESIGNING THE FIRST ANIMALS.
THIS DOCUMENTARY MOVIE IS
AVAILABLE ON DVD FOR A GIFT
OF $30.
AND FINALLY, IF YOU WISH TO
ORDER ALL OF 3 OF THESE
ITEMS TOGETHER, THAT IS BOTH
TELEVISION SERIES, PLUS
THE DOCUMENTARY MOVIE
"DARWIN'S DILEMMA," THEY ARE
AVAILABLE TOGETHER IN
A SPECIAL PACKAGE FOR ONLY
$100. AND TO ORDER NOW,
YOU MAY CALL 1-800-805-3030.
THAT'S 1-800-805-3030.
OR YOU MAY ORDER THESE
PROGRAMS NOW AT OUR WEBSITE
AT JASHOW.ORG.
>>ANNOUNCER: AND TO LEARN
HOW TO START A RELATIONSHIP
WITH JESUS CHRIST, GO TO
OUR WEBSITE AT JASHOW.ORG
