
English: 
Welcome to the Mikhaila Peterson
podcast, episode nine. The past
year was the worst year of my
life. Both of my parents almost
died repeatedly. First my mom
then my dad, you can't make this
up. It's been insane. I'm
writing about it in more detail.
It'll be in my book. So Andrey,
my husband, and I have spent
every day for the last six
months trying to find my dad
help looking everywhere
traveling around the world. If
it hadn't been for Andrey, we
wouldn't have made it through
this year. So this is a brief
podcast with my dad about what
happened to him and my family in
the last year. This was a very
difficult interview. It
flattened both of us the evening
we recorded it. dad's been in
the public eye for years now and
his sudden disappearance was
definitely noticed. He
disappeared due to a
benzodiazepine dependency. We
both thought explaining what's
gone on in the last year could
help other people avoid the same
hell that we're just hopefully

English: 
Welcome to the Mikhaila Peterson
podcast, episode nine. The past
year was the worst year of my
life. Both of my parents almost
died repeatedly. First my mom
then my dad, you can't make this
up. It's been insane. I'm
writing about it in more detail.
It'll be in my book. So Andrey,
my husband, and I have spent
every day for the last six
months trying to find my dad
help looking everywhere
traveling around the world. If
it hadn't been for Andrey, we
wouldn't have made it through
this year. So this is a brief
podcast with my dad about what
happened to him and my family in
the last year. This was a very
difficult interview. It
flattened both of us the evening
we recorded it. dad's been in
the public eye for years now and
his sudden disappearance was
definitely noticed. He
disappeared due to a
benzodiazepine dependency. We
both thought explaining what's
gone on in the last year could
help other people avoid the same
hell that we're just hopefully

English: 
barely getting out of.
explaining these personal
struggles is really stressful.
So this wasn't an easy
conversation and going through
these experiences, and then
feeling like you owe an
explanation to the world is
tough. I assume there'll be
plenty of questions after this
video and we'll get to those in
time. Please check out the links
in the description and in the
show notes to learn more about
the topics we're about to cover.
I get Oh, it's really nice to be
doing a family update with you
rather than about you.
Yeah, well, it's, it feels like
a good thing from this end of

English: 
barely getting out of.
explaining these personal
struggles is really stressful.
So this wasn't an easy
conversation and going through
these experiences, and then
feeling like you owe an
explanation to the world is
tough. I assume there'll be
plenty of questions after this
video and we'll get to those in
time. Please check out the links
in the description and in the
show notes to learn more about
the topics we're about to cover.
I get Oh, it's really nice to be
doing a family update with you
rather than about you.
Yeah, well, it's, it feels like
a good thing from this end of

English: 
the universe. As well,
good. When was the last time you
used a mic to record anything
for YouTube?
It would have been last fall,
likely. early fall. Maybe
September. It was August, maybe
even. Almost a year? Yeah. Yeah.
A long time.
So don't like long time too. It
felt like a very, very, very
long, very long time. Yes. Well,
in the most Canadian fashion I
can muster.
What the hell happened day.
Right. That's what people were
asking online. Right, right.
What happened? Well, you know,
an accident is when three or
four or five unlikely things
happen at the same time. And I
would say that's what happened
to me. First of all, I spent

English: 
the universe. As well,
good. When was the last time you
used a mic to record anything
for YouTube?
It would have been last fall,
likely. early fall. Maybe
September. It was August, maybe
even. Almost a year? Yeah. Yeah.
A long time.
So don't like long time too. It
felt like a very, very, very
long, very long time. Yes. Well,
in the most Canadian fashion I
can muster.
What the hell happened day.
Right. That's what people were
asking online. Right, right.
What happened? Well, you know,
an accident is when three or
four or five unlikely things
happen at the same time. And I
would say that's what happened
to me. First of all, I spent

English: 
last January with you in Zurich,
at a hospital. I wasn't in the
hospital, but I was there. Most
of the time. You're in the
hospital. I was in the hospital
a lot. Yeah. Well, I had to feed
you, you know me or make food
for you? Yeah. So I was there
through all of January. And you
were getting some pretty
invasive surgery done on your
foot. And then your mom and I,
Tammy and I went to Australia,
New Zealand for most of February
and that was actually not too
bad a trip. I felt alright. And
she was feeling alright too. But
we knew her surgery for what was
hypothetically a relatively
treatable cancer was coming up
in March. So that was hanging
over our heads, although we
weren't overwhelmingly worried
about it. And then she went and
had her surgery and they then we
were informed six weeks after
that, after she had recovered
but was still suffering some

English: 
last January with you in Zurich,
at a hospital. I wasn't in the
hospital, but I was there. Most
of the time. You're in the
hospital. I was in the hospital
a lot. Yeah. Well, I had to feed
you, you know me or make food
for you? Yeah. So I was there
through all of January. And you
were getting some pretty
invasive surgery done on your
foot. And then your mom and I,
Tammy and I went to Australia,
New Zealand for most of February
and that was actually not too
bad a trip. I felt alright. And
she was feeling alright too. But
we knew her surgery for what was
hypothetically a relatively
treatable cancer was coming up
in March. So that was hanging
over our heads, although we
weren't overwhelmingly worried
about it. And then she went and
had her surgery and they then we
were informed six weeks after
that, after she had recovered
but was still suffering some

English: 
pain that the easily treatable
and non dangerous slow growing
malignancy that we were told.
She had was, in fact, something
fast growing with about with
some something near 100%
fatality rate within a year
regardless of treatment,
like so cancer, like,
yeah, so that was deadly. We got
all we were told that in about
10 minutes. And so when we were
just expecting Well, it's not a
clean bill of health, at least a
re representation of what we'd
already been told. And then she
went in to have more invasive
surgery, and hypothetically that
worked, but it created syrup,
terrible side effects. And that
was the start of a whole other
six months long nightmare of
trying to deal with surgical
complications, which we did
eventually resolve but not until

English: 
pain that the easily treatable
and non dangerous slow growing
malignancy that we were told.
She had was, in fact, something
fast growing with about with
some something near 100%
fatality rate within a year
regardless of treatment,
like so cancer, like,
yeah, so that was deadly. We got
all we were told that in about
10 minutes. And so when we were
just expecting Well, it's not a
clean bill of health, at least a
re representation of what we'd
already been told. And then she
went in to have more invasive
surgery, and hypothetically that
worked, but it created syrup,
terrible side effects. And that
was the start of a whole other
six months long nightmare of
trying to deal with surgical
complications, which we did
eventually resolve but not until

English: 
mid the middle of August. In
fact, Not literally not until
the day of our 30th wedding
anniversary. And so that was all
hair raising and stressful to
say the least. I mean, you know,
I've talked about that but we
seem to have a life threatening
emergency on Tammy's part for
about every three days for about
six months. And then I had my
own problems start to develop
really, in with any degree of
severity in about April, May
something like that. I had been
taking benzodiazepine since
2016.
To why before we get into them,
what why? Why did you start
taking benzodiazepines?
Well, in over the Christmas
vacation in 2016. You and I and
Julian and my son and me went
out to Vancouver Island to visit

English: 
mid the middle of August. In
fact, Not literally not until
the day of our 30th wedding
anniversary. And so that was all
hair raising and stressful to
say the least. I mean, you know,
I've talked about that but we
seem to have a life threatening
emergency on Tammy's part for
about every three days for about
six months. And then I had my
own problems start to develop
really, in with any degree of
severity in about April, May
something like that. I had been
taking benzodiazepine since
2016.
To why before we get into them,
what why? Why did you start
taking benzodiazepines?
Well, in over the Christmas
vacation in 2016. You and I and
Julian and my son and me went
out to Vancouver Island to visit

English: 
Her parents and siblings and
when we were there, you and I
and Andrey your husband ate
something that didn't agree with
any of us and saw had a very
severe reaction to that
I'm still on board it was
logical conclusion but I was.
Well, the same we have the same
symptoms. I don't know if I was
any more seriously affected than
you or not, but I was freezing
cold for about a month I
couldn't get warm No matter how
much I wore. I couldn't stand up
without fainting. I couldn't
sleep. I don't think I slept at
all for for something on the in
the order of three weeks.
Yeah, people like you went on
Joe Rogan and talked about his
Sulfite reaction you had and how
you didn't sleep and people
commented that, oh, it's not
possible to stay awake for that
long. But if you actually look
into sodium metabolic sulfide

English: 
Her parents and siblings and
when we were there, you and I
and Andrey your husband ate
something that didn't agree with
any of us and saw had a very
severe reaction to that
I'm still on board it was
logical conclusion but I was.
Well, the same we have the same
symptoms. I don't know if I was
any more seriously affected than
you or not, but I was freezing
cold for about a month I
couldn't get warm No matter how
much I wore. I couldn't stand up
without fainting. I couldn't
sleep. I don't think I slept at
all for for something on the in
the order of three weeks.
Yeah, people like you went on
Joe Rogan and talked about his
Sulfite reaction you had and how
you didn't sleep and people
commented that, oh, it's not
possible to stay awake for that
long. But if you actually look
into sodium metabolic sulfide

English: 
allergies, The symptoms that we
experienced aren't on heard out
there are papers,
it's also impossible to stay
awake voluntarily that long.
That's not the same as not being
able to sleep. Those are very,
very different things, whatever.
It's possible that when I was
laying there thinking I wasn't
sleeping that now and then I
drifted off and would wake up
and not notice. I mean, I can't
eliminate that as a possibility.
But I can certainly tell you
that I slept little enough so
that it was exceedingly
unpleasant. It's a very long
time to stay awake. And when we
went back to Toronto, our family
physician prescribed
benzodiazepines, which are often
used as a sleeping aid and an
anti anxiety medication and
something called is opera clone
mo vein. And I hardly took the
innovate at all maybe four or
five times.
But I took the

English: 
allergies, The symptoms that we
experienced aren't on heard out
there are papers,
it's also impossible to stay
awake voluntarily that long.
That's not the same as not being
able to sleep. Those are very,
very different things, whatever.
It's possible that when I was
laying there thinking I wasn't
sleeping that now and then I
drifted off and would wake up
and not notice. I mean, I can't
eliminate that as a possibility.
But I can certainly tell you
that I slept little enough so
that it was exceedingly
unpleasant. It's a very long
time to stay awake. And when we
went back to Toronto, our family
physician prescribed
benzodiazepines, which are often
used as a sleeping aid and an
anti anxiety medication and
something called is opera clone
mo vein. And I hardly took the
innovate at all maybe four or
five times.
But I took the

English: 
the benzodiazepine the way that
it was prescribed twice to a
point to five milligrams, and
that seemed to bring the
symptoms to a pretty rapid halt,
which is also part of the reason
I didn't need the innovation.
And then there were so many
other things going on around me
at that time that I never really
thought about it again. You
know, I thought they were that
it was a relatively harmless
drug. And I was taking it in a
prescribed fashion out not too
high a dose and I developed
symptoms that I now recognized
were associated with its use
weakness on my left side and a
feeling of detachment from
people around me people I loved
some decrease in the ability to
experience joy. But it wasn't
until much later that I actually
associated with benzodiazepine
use.
Yeah,
when Well, when your mom got so
sick. My anxiety levels had been

English: 
the benzodiazepine the way that
it was prescribed twice to a
point to five milligrams, and
that seemed to bring the
symptoms to a pretty rapid halt,
which is also part of the reason
I didn't need the innovation.
And then there were so many
other things going on around me
at that time that I never really
thought about it again. You
know, I thought they were that
it was a relatively harmless
drug. And I was taking it in a
prescribed fashion out not too
high a dose and I developed
symptoms that I now recognized
were associated with its use
weakness on my left side and a
feeling of detachment from
people around me people I loved
some decrease in the ability to
experience joy. But it wasn't
until much later that I actually
associated with benzodiazepine
use.
Yeah,
when Well, when your mom got so
sick. My anxiety levels had been

English: 
climbing Again,
oh, yeah, that was unbearable. I
mean, the response I had if
you're told your parent or your
wife of almost 30 years, has no
chance and is going to be dead
in the next 10 months. That's
what we were told that surgery
doesn't help and that chemo
doesn't help and that this is a
fast growing cancer and you're
screwed no matter what, right?
We heard in one day, well, yeah,
anxiety went all over North
America to New York and to
Houston and to LA, looking for
different opinions before we
decided to settle on surgery.
But
and everyone gave us the same
opinion.
Yes, which was that nothing is
going to help but surgery was
probably the best. The best low
probability bet.
Yeah, so so.
So I asked my doctor to increase
the benzodiazepine dose, but
what seemed to happen as a
consequence of that was that I
just got more anxious, like so.
Again, in retrospect, it seems

English: 
climbing Again,
oh, yeah, that was unbearable. I
mean, the response I had if
you're told your parent or your
wife of almost 30 years, has no
chance and is going to be dead
in the next 10 months. That's
what we were told that surgery
doesn't help and that chemo
doesn't help and that this is a
fast growing cancer and you're
screwed no matter what, right?
We heard in one day, well, yeah,
anxiety went all over North
America to New York and to
Houston and to LA, looking for
different opinions before we
decided to settle on surgery.
But
and everyone gave us the same
opinion.
Yes, which was that nothing is
going to help but surgery was
probably the best. The best low
probability bet.
Yeah, so so.
So I asked my doctor to increase
the benzodiazepine dose, but
what seemed to happen as a
consequence of that was that I
just got more anxious, like so.
Again, in retrospect, it seems

English: 
like I had a rather unknown
Common but not unheard of
reaction to benzodiazepines,
where increased dose makes
anxiety worse instead of better.
So then at one point when things
weren't getting better, and
Tammy was still in the hospital,
I was trying to take care of her
and then we had lots of help. I
stopped taking them entirely and
tried ketamine, which is a
treatment for depression. Well
that neither of those were very
good ideas as it turned out. So
I had to stop taking
benzodiazepines entirely.
In like the ketamine, oh, yeah.
Then I didn't go then I stayed
off them for something
approximating a week not knowing
that. That was a very bad idea.
And I often think I should have
known these things because I did
a lot of scientific research

English: 
like I had a rather unknown
Common but not unheard of
reaction to benzodiazepines,
where increased dose makes
anxiety worse instead of better.
So then at one point when things
weren't getting better, and
Tammy was still in the hospital,
I was trying to take care of her
and then we had lots of help. I
stopped taking them entirely and
tried ketamine, which is a
treatment for depression. Well
that neither of those were very
good ideas as it turned out. So
I had to stop taking
benzodiazepines entirely.
In like the ketamine, oh, yeah.
Then I didn't go then I stayed
off them for something
approximating a week not knowing
that. That was a very bad idea.
And I often think I should have
known these things because I did
a lot of scientific research

English: 
when I was a graduate student on
alcoholism. And I knew that
alcohol and benzodiazepines and
barbiturates were all the same
chemical class, at least in
terms of their effect on
neurological effects. And but
what I knew about
benzodiazepines was that they
were comparatively safe compared
to barbiturates, which they
basically replaced. But that's
much less true than everybody
who's taking them hopes. And
they're very widely prescribed.
And I don't remember what the
probability of developing a
dependency on them is. If you
take them for more than two
weeks, it's 50%. I believe it's
something like 50%. Yeah, if you
take them for two or four weeks,
and over four weeks, it's much
much higher, right? Most people
prescribed them stay on them for
life. And that could have
something to do with the fact
that they're very difficult to
get off of.
Yeah, well, it was unbelievably
unpleasant. I mean, it was
unbearably unpleasant. And so I
started stopping started
tapering off when Tammy was in
the hospital, but I couldn't

English: 
when I was a graduate student on
alcoholism. And I knew that
alcohol and benzodiazepines and
barbiturates were all the same
chemical class, at least in
terms of their effect on
neurological effects. And but
what I knew about
benzodiazepines was that they
were comparatively safe compared
to barbiturates, which they
basically replaced. But that's
much less true than everybody
who's taking them hopes. And
they're very widely prescribed.
And I don't remember what the
probability of developing a
dependency on them is. If you
take them for more than two
weeks, it's 50%. I believe it's
something like 50%. Yeah, if you
take them for two or four weeks,
and over four weeks, it's much
much higher, right? Most people
prescribed them stay on them for
life. And that could have
something to do with the fact
that they're very difficult to
get off of.
Yeah, well, it was unbelievably
unpleasant. I mean, it was
unbearably unpleasant. And so I
started stopping started
tapering off when Tammy was in
the hospital, but I couldn't

English: 
push it. To fast because wasn't
bearable and what what do you
mean? It wasn't? Well, my
anxiety levels went higher than
I'd ever than anything I'd ever
experienced. And I also
developed this condition called
akathisia. And the best way I
can describe that is that it was
like being jabbed with something
that with a prod like a cattle
prod, something electric or
something sharp, non stop for
hours for all the hours I was
awake was absolutely I couldn't
sit or lay down or stop moving.
And even if I did get up and
move it wasn't like that made it
better. I just couldn't stop
doing it. It was horrible.
apathy is horrible. It's it's,
it's well it's like being
whipped, too. That's another way
of thinking about it. Although I
really think I would have you
know, this is sounds

English: 
push it. To fast because wasn't
bearable and what what do you
mean? It wasn't? Well, my
anxiety levels went higher than
I'd ever than anything I'd ever
experienced. And I also
developed this condition called
akathisia. And the best way I
can describe that is that it was
like being jabbed with something
that with a prod like a cattle
prod, something electric or
something sharp, non stop for
hours for all the hours I was
awake was absolutely I couldn't
sit or lay down or stop moving.
And even if I did get up and
move it wasn't like that made it
better. I just couldn't stop
doing it. It was horrible.
apathy is horrible. It's it's,
it's well it's like being
whipped, too. That's another way
of thinking about it. Although I
really think I would have you
know, this is sounds

English: 
melodramatic, but I think if I
had to pick whipping Or akathisia
was it would depend on how big a
whip but maybe not an obvious
choice five pronged whips. Yes.
Yeah. Cat of nine tails. That
might be worse. But it was it
was plenty bad. Yeah. And so and
things just fell apart more and
more. Tammy recovered rather
miraculously in the middle of
August and but I continued my
sort of downhill spiral and
ended up in a clinic in on the
eastern seaboard that claim they
could do a rapid
Yeah, benzodiazepine detox,
which was a complete bloody lie.
Yeah. Well, what we figured was,
we didn't realize that there was
this physical dependency until
you stopped to try and do the
ketamine and then we tried
tapering and you couldn't stand
it because of the akathisia. And
so we thought, well, let's go
get some professional help.
Right. And well, and I went to
the clinic on the Sunday

English: 
melodramatic, but I think if I
had to pick whipping Or akathisia
was it would depend on how big a
whip but maybe not an obvious
choice five pronged whips. Yes.
Yeah. Cat of nine tails. That
might be worse. But it was it
was plenty bad. Yeah. And so and
things just fell apart more and
more. Tammy recovered rather
miraculously in the middle of
August and but I continued my
sort of downhill spiral and
ended up in a clinic in on the
eastern seaboard that claim they
could do a rapid
Yeah, benzodiazepine detox,
which was a complete bloody lie.
Yeah. Well, what we figured was,
we didn't realize that there was
this physical dependency until
you stopped to try and do the
ketamine and then we tried
tapering and you couldn't stand
it because of the akathisia. And
so we thought, well, let's go
get some professional help.
Right. And well, and I went to
the clinic on the Sunday

English: 
Understanding that they could do
a multi day detoxification and
treatment for withdrawal. And
when I got there, what they told
me instead was that they'd
substitute essentially, they'd
substitute one benzodiazepine
for another, which wasn't the
least bit helpful because
Clonazepam was already a long
acting benzodiazepine, and
they're easier to wean off than
the shorter acting
benzodiazepines. And they had
nothing to offer essentially, I
came out of that clinic worse
than I when I went in.
So like, significantly worse,
yes.
on to more sedative like drugs
in order to dampen down the
apathetic symptoms, right,
which wasn't
helping much. Given the fact
that the benzodiazepines were
causing the akathisia. Yes,
yeah. So then I went back to
Toronto, that's November,
November, and

English: 
Understanding that they could do
a multi day detoxification and
treatment for withdrawal. And
when I got there, what they told
me instead was that they'd
substitute essentially, they'd
substitute one benzodiazepine
for another, which wasn't the
least bit helpful because
Clonazepam was already a long
acting benzodiazepine, and
they're easier to wean off than
the shorter acting
benzodiazepines. And they had
nothing to offer essentially, I
came out of that clinic worse
than I when I went in.
So like, significantly worse,
yes.
on to more sedative like drugs
in order to dampen down the
apathetic symptoms, right,
which wasn't
helping much. Given the fact
that the benzodiazepines were
causing the akathisia. Yes,
yeah. So then I went back to
Toronto, that's November,
November, and

English: 
things maintain Their downhill
trajectory, apart from the fact
that Tammy was recovering quite
nicely, which of course, was
great. But then I ended up in
the hospital in Toronto and the
hospital I ended up with in was
also worse than useless. Yes.
So, and I don't remember this
part of it from December 15
onward. You and Andrey, your
husband took me out of that
hospital and we went to Russia
of all places near Moscow to try
a treatment offered by clinic
there that used.
They use propofol and Dexter,
right. Right. propofol to as a
heavy, heavy sedating agent, and
basically made me unconscious
for nine days.

English: 
things maintain Their downhill
trajectory, apart from the fact
that Tammy was recovering quite
nicely, which of course, was
great. But then I ended up in
the hospital in Toronto and the
hospital I ended up with in was
also worse than useless. Yes.
So, and I don't remember this
part of it from December 15
onward. You and Andrey, your
husband took me out of that
hospital and we went to Russia
of all places near Moscow to try
a treatment offered by clinic
there that used.
They use propofol and Dexter,
right. Right. propofol to as a
heavy, heavy sedating agent, and
basically made me unconscious
for nine days.

English: 
Yeah, so you were completely
out. For nine days, while I also
had pneumonia, which I developed
apparently in the hospital in
Toronto, well, yeah, it was
quite, quite entertaining the
whole the whole string of
events. We got questions about,
you know, why why on earth would
you go to Russia when you could
get, you know, world class care
in North America. And the reason
for that was because we had
tried the Ashton protocol, we
switched over to Valium. We
tried the Ashton protocol. And
lots of people have success with
that, although it sounds
horrible.
And lots of people don't have
success with it. Yeah,
I'm I put out a first family
update we did was when you went
to the first rehab center in the
States, and after I put that out
and said, this is what's going
on. I had hundreds if not
thousands of people respond,
telling me how horrible
benzodiazepine withdrawal could
be, how they couldn't work, how
they were pacing around their
backyards for a year, and they
basically said, just keep them
alive. Make sure he's still

English: 
Yeah, so you were completely
out. For nine days, while I also
had pneumonia, which I developed
apparently in the hospital in
Toronto, well, yeah, it was
quite, quite entertaining the
whole the whole string of
events. We got questions about,
you know, why why on earth would
you go to Russia when you could
get, you know, world class care
in North America. And the reason
for that was because we had
tried the Ashton protocol, we
switched over to Valium. We
tried the Ashton protocol. And
lots of people have success with
that, although it sounds
horrible.
And lots of people don't have
success with it. Yeah,
I'm I put out a first family
update we did was when you went
to the first rehab center in the
States, and after I put that out
and said, this is what's going
on. I had hundreds if not
thousands of people respond,
telling me how horrible
benzodiazepine withdrawal could
be, how they couldn't work, how
they were pacing around their
backyards for a year, and they
basically said, just keep them
alive. Make sure he's still

English: 
alive. He still cares. Tourists
that I spoke with said, You know
when I asked them how long the
akathisia was likely last they
said well it could be two years
and I thought no one could live
like this for two years it's
like you can't live for two
years if you're being constantly
prodded with something
excruciating Lee painful on a
moment to moment basis. It's
just not and there's no escape.
There's no relief. That's just
not possible wasn't possible. Or
I, sir, I mean, the reason I did
survive certainly wasn't because
I was enjoying my life. The
reason was, is that I had family
that I was very attached to, and
friends who went above and
beyond the call of duty, helping
to care for me, but the
experience was intolerably

English: 
alive. He still cares. Tourists
that I spoke with said, You know
when I asked them how long the
akathisia was likely last they
said well it could be two years
and I thought no one could live
like this for two years it's
like you can't live for two
years if you're being constantly
prodded with something
excruciating Lee painful on a
moment to moment basis. It's
just not and there's no escape.
There's no relief. That's just
not possible wasn't possible. Or
I, sir, I mean, the reason I did
survive certainly wasn't because
I was enjoying my life. The
reason was, is that I had family
that I was very attached to, and
friends who went above and
beyond the call of duty, helping
to care for me, but the
experience was intolerably

English: 
dreadful and it's so strange
We're now in Serbia, weirdly
enough in Belgrade of all bloody
places. And we've been here
about two weeks and went to yet
another specialty clinic run by
an anesthesiologist. And they
modified the medication that I
was taking in Florida, which is
where we were last. And I don't
know. I can't understand it, but
virtually all my symptoms have
disappeared. I'm still weak. If
I get up and walk around. I
don't have my stamina, but I can
think clearly I feel I'm back to
my regular self such as that is.
Yeah, during the mornings, and
during the days I can work. You
know, it's very surprising to me
that this happened so rapidly,
but it has and that's why we're
doing this podcast and yeah,
this this, this video, but and
hopefully it'll last but Tammy
is coming. She's been I haven't

English: 
dreadful and it's so strange
We're now in Serbia, weirdly
enough in Belgrade of all bloody
places. And we've been here
about two weeks and went to yet
another specialty clinic run by
an anesthesiologist. And they
modified the medication that I
was taking in Florida, which is
where we were last. And I don't
know. I can't understand it, but
virtually all my symptoms have
disappeared. I'm still weak. If
I get up and walk around. I
don't have my stamina, but I can
think clearly I feel I'm back to
my regular self such as that is.
Yeah, during the mornings, and
during the days I can work. You
know, it's very surprising to me
that this happened so rapidly,
but it has and that's why we're
doing this podcast and yeah,
this this, this video, but and
hopefully it'll last but Tammy
is coming. She's been I haven't

English: 
been With her for more than a
few days since middle of
December, and that was partly
because I was in bad shape and
she wasn't in good enough shape
to be patient with me. I mean,
just a terrible time
almost. She almost died like
every day for six months, like
you said, and you were in you
were suffering so much that
anyone around you suffered.
Yeah, see, because of how
horrible it was to watch. It was
horrible. So just to back up a
bit. You went to a hospital in
Toronto, and they were going to
make things worse rapidly. They
weren't willing because of your
akathisia, which was making you
crazy. They weren't willing to
slow tapered you down. They just
wanted to stabilize you but
keeping the benzodiazepines
there. So Andrey and I found a
clinic in Russia that would
actually put you to sleep using

English: 
been With her for more than a
few days since middle of
December, and that was partly
because I was in bad shape and
she wasn't in good enough shape
to be patient with me. I mean,
just a terrible time
almost. She almost died like
every day for six months, like
you said, and you were in you
were suffering so much that
anyone around you suffered.
Yeah, see, because of how
horrible it was to watch. It was
horrible. So just to back up a
bit. You went to a hospital in
Toronto, and they were going to
make things worse rapidly. They
weren't willing because of your
akathisia, which was making you
crazy. They weren't willing to
slow tapered you down. They just
wanted to stabilize you but
keeping the benzodiazepines
there. So Andrey and I found a
clinic in Russia that would
actually put you to sleep using

English: 
proper fall so you wouldn't have
to suffer while they took them.
benzodiazepines out and doing a
detox suffer as much. Oh, at
least you'd be unconscious for
that period of time. And doing a
detox on benzodiazepines isn't
recommended. You're supposed to
do a slow taper. But your
akathisia was so bad that even
staying at the same dose, right
was dangerous, right? So we
needed to get rid of that. So we
spent time in Russia managed to
get it out. And it was, or
Well, you guys took a big risk
taking me out of the hospital in
Toronto, which nobody
recommended. The psychiatrists
certainly weren't in favor of
it. And taking me somewhere as
foreign as Moscow and and then
attempting this. What generally
unadvised treatment was all
surreal. Yeah, it was

English: 
proper fall so you wouldn't have
to suffer while they took them.
benzodiazepines out and doing a
detox suffer as much. Oh, at
least you'd be unconscious for
that period of time. And doing a
detox on benzodiazepines isn't
recommended. You're supposed to
do a slow taper. But your
akathisia was so bad that even
staying at the same dose, right
was dangerous, right? So we
needed to get rid of that. So we
spent time in Russia managed to
get it out. And it was, or
Well, you guys took a big risk
taking me out of the hospital in
Toronto, which nobody
recommended. The psychiatrists
certainly weren't in favor of
it. And taking me somewhere as
foreign as Moscow and and then
attempting this. What generally
unadvised treatment was all
surreal. Yeah, it was

English: 
terrifying. And when I woke up
So as I said to that was
complicated by the fact that I
double I had developed pneumonia
and both lungs, but when I woke
up I was first catatonic and
then delirious. I can remember
the delirium that lasted a whole
day consisted of a sort of dream
like hallucination that I had
been kidnapped by. You were you
were delirious for nine days.
Nine days.
Yeah. Nine days. You remember
the last
last day? I remember that I was
kidnapped by people, oddly
enough who lived in Florida. And
they were like, very rural
backwoods people. Florida
trained people Florida treat
people yeah. And that they were
going to the leader of this
little gang who kidnap me we're
going to kill me because the
leader was going to kill me
because he wanted to impress his
girlfriend. And it was very,
very vivid dream that I had
while I was awake. I knew I was
in the hospital at the same

English: 
terrifying. And when I woke up
So as I said to that was
complicated by the fact that I
double I had developed pneumonia
and both lungs, but when I woke
up I was first catatonic and
then delirious. I can remember
the delirium that lasted a whole
day consisted of a sort of dream
like hallucination that I had
been kidnapped by. You were you
were delirious for nine days.
Nine days.
Yeah. Nine days. You remember
the last
last day? I remember that I was
kidnapped by people, oddly
enough who lived in Florida. And
they were like, very rural
backwoods people. Florida
trained people Florida treat
people yeah. And that they were
going to the leader of this
little gang who kidnap me we're
going to kill me because the
leader was going to kill me
because he wanted to impress his
girlfriend. And it was very,
very vivid dream that I had
while I was awake. I knew I was
in the hospital at the same

English: 
time. was just one of the. And I
also remember that when I first
woke up, I was irate because
I had been
my hands had been secured to the
side of the bed, because
apparently I was tearing out the
IV tubes that I was connected
to. Because I didn't want to be
in the hospital. I had no idea
why I was in the hospital or
where the hospital was or where
anybody I knew was we had to
back up a bed again.
We had agreed when you were in
the hospital in Toronto, like
our whole family had sat down
and agreed that the best option
was this rapid detox in Moscow,
and you'd been part of that
discussion. But when you woke up
after the detox in Russia, you
couldn't remember any of that
right?
I remember being really angry
with you when you first showed
up because there were very
limited hours, but I didn't know

English: 
time. was just one of the. And I
also remember that when I first
woke up, I was irate because
I had been
my hands had been secured to the
side of the bed, because
apparently I was tearing out the
IV tubes that I was connected
to. Because I didn't want to be
in the hospital. I had no idea
why I was in the hospital or
where the hospital was or where
anybody I knew was we had to
back up a bed again.
We had agreed when you were in
the hospital in Toronto, like
our whole family had sat down
and agreed that the best option
was this rapid detox in Moscow,
and you'd been part of that
discussion. But when you woke up
after the detox in Russia, you
couldn't remember any of that
right?
I remember being really angry
with you when you first showed
up because there were very
limited hours, but I didn't know

English: 
that It was this
man it was so awful it was we
ended up in like the outskirts
of Moscow in a clinic for
severely ill people. Yeah. And
it was like Soviet ask guard
guarded. So the visiting hours
were two hours from for you guys
were driving how far a day to
come and visit is like two hours
each way. Right? Right. And in
Moscow winter winter in in rough
traffic in bad weather. Yeah, to
visit an ICU that was full of
people who were in very rough
shape, including me. Oh, yeah,
you fit right in when you first
got there. And at first it was
like how? Oh my god. We brought
dad to Moscow and destroyed him.
Well,
that's what the doctor told you
wasn't the first half
when we first watch that. Oh

English: 
that It was this
man it was so awful it was we
ended up in like the outskirts
of Moscow in a clinic for
severely ill people. Yeah. And
it was like Soviet ask guard
guarded. So the visiting hours
were two hours from for you guys
were driving how far a day to
come and visit is like two hours
each way. Right? Right. And in
Moscow winter winter in in rough
traffic in bad weather. Yeah, to
visit an ICU that was full of
people who were in very rough
shape, including me. Oh, yeah,
you fit right in when you first
got there. And at first it was
like how? Oh my god. We brought
dad to Moscow and destroyed him.
Well,
that's what the doctor told you
wasn't the first half
when we first watch that. Oh

English: 
yeah. I'm on I couldn't even And
like there was one day that was
so bad I couldn't go in. And
Andrey went in. And they said,
you know, why are you here of
all places in Russian? and Andrey
said, there was no one to help
him in the West, which there
wasn't we looked everywhere,
right? And we tried to clinics
and talk to multiple
psychiatrists, and none of them
could help.
And she said, Great, you've
brought him here to die.
So, and that was, you know, the
scary thing about the hospital
you were in in Toronto is you
had pneumonia that wasn't picked
up until we got to Moscow. So
when you arrived in Moscow, you
had a fever and pneumonia in
both lungs. And so when they
sedated you, they intubated me
as he had to intubate you during
the sedation because of the
pneumonia. So we weren't getting
care anywhere. And getting off
benzodiazepines almost killed
you on the place in Russia.

English: 
yeah. I'm on I couldn't even And
like there was one day that was
so bad I couldn't go in. And
Andrey went in. And they said,
you know, why are you here of
all places in Russian? and Andrey
said, there was no one to help
him in the West, which there
wasn't we looked everywhere,
right? And we tried to clinics
and talk to multiple
psychiatrists, and none of them
could help.
And she said, Great, you've
brought him here to die.
So, and that was, you know, the
scary thing about the hospital
you were in in Toronto is you
had pneumonia that wasn't picked
up until we got to Moscow. So
when you arrived in Moscow, you
had a fever and pneumonia in
both lungs. And so when they
sedated you, they intubated me
as he had to intubate you during
the sedation because of the
pneumonia. So we weren't getting
care anywhere. And getting off
benzodiazepines almost killed
you on the place in Russia.

English: 
So managed to stabilize you. But
it was,
yeah, to some degree. Like I
didn't have any Alexia was much
reduced. Yeah,
when the benzos were finally so
they, um, they did some plasma
for recess as well to get rid of
the benzodiazepines in your
blood. Because the half life of
benzos are so long that even
when you stop taking them
that particular kind of early,
it takes a really long time for
it to get out of your blood. So
one of the things they did when
you were under was plasma
freezes to get rid of all the
benzodiazepines. So when you
woke up, the only good thing
that had happened was you
weren't taking benzodiazepines,
and you weren't apathetic. You
were totally screwed. But you
weren't apathy. Right? Yes, and
that that was a great relief.
But then we went, we went to
rehab center for a while in
Moscow that was less medical and
more physiotherapy oriented. And
for a while I couldn't. I
couldn't type because I couldn't

English: 
So managed to stabilize you. But
it was,
yeah, to some degree. Like I
didn't have any Alexia was much
reduced. Yeah,
when the benzos were finally so
they, um, they did some plasma
for recess as well to get rid of
the benzodiazepines in your
blood. Because the half life of
benzos are so long that even
when you stop taking them
that particular kind of early,
it takes a really long time for
it to get out of your blood. So
one of the things they did when
you were under was plasma
freezes to get rid of all the
benzodiazepines. So when you
woke up, the only good thing
that had happened was you
weren't taking benzodiazepines,
and you weren't apathetic. You
were totally screwed. But you
weren't apathy. Right? Yes, and
that that was a great relief.
But then we went, we went to
rehab center for a while in
Moscow that was less medical and
more physiotherapy oriented. And
for a while I couldn't. I
couldn't type because I couldn't

English: 
remember how to put My hands on
the keyboard. I couldn't walk up
and down stairs because I
couldn't see the stairs
properly. I couldn't do up
buttons. And one night I got up
to use the washroom and then
came back into the my bedroom
and I couldn't remember how to
lay down. I tried for about 40
minutes, I couldn't remember the
sequence of actions that would
enable me to lay down so this
was probably two or three in the
morning, I ended up calling for
a nurse so that the nurse who
was very helpful person could
come in and tell me how to lay
down so it was very strange kind
of cortical blindness. So I
stayed in there for what two
weeks and then we went to
Florida where we thought it
would be sunny and easier to
recover, which might have been
but when I was in Florida, the
my anxiety levels were I wasn't
apathetic most of the time, but
my anxiety levels were
unbearably high. And that that

English: 
remember how to put My hands on
the keyboard. I couldn't walk up
and down stairs because I
couldn't see the stairs
properly. I couldn't do up
buttons. And one night I got up
to use the washroom and then
came back into the my bedroom
and I couldn't remember how to
lay down. I tried for about 40
minutes, I couldn't remember the
sequence of actions that would
enable me to lay down so this
was probably two or three in the
morning, I ended up calling for
a nurse so that the nurse who
was very helpful person could
come in and tell me how to lay
down so it was very strange kind
of cortical blindness. So I
stayed in there for what two
weeks and then we went to
Florida where we thought it
would be sunny and easier to
recover, which might have been
but when I was in Florida, the
my anxiety levels were I wasn't
apathetic most of the time, but
my anxiety levels were
unbearably high. And that that

English: 
finally got so bad that I had
family members there who were
taking care of me you were
there, of course, and Andrey, but
also my parents, my sister, some
friends. Tammy came for a while
my son came for a while. But it
got to the point where it was
obvious that just the care of
family members, no matter how
well intentioned, a wouldn't be
sufficient and B was just too
much to ask of people. The
responsibility was too great.
And so that's when we, you, you
and Andrey had been communicating
with the Serbian medical clinic
for about six weeks, something
like that, and they'd been quite
helpful
five months
for Okay, well, this is partly
why we're doing this together is
because I don't know all the
facts set at hand. Yeah,
but they were helpful. They were
helpful. We Andrey managed to get
in touch with this clinic in
Belgrade, where it's not, at

English: 
finally got so bad that I had
family members there who were
taking care of me you were
there, of course, and Andrey, but
also my parents, my sister, some
friends. Tammy came for a while
my son came for a while. But it
got to the point where it was
obvious that just the care of
family members, no matter how
well intentioned, a wouldn't be
sufficient and B was just too
much to ask of people. The
responsibility was too great.
And so that's when we, you, you
and Andrey had been communicating
with the Serbian medical clinic
for about six weeks, something
like that, and they'd been quite
helpful
five months
for Okay, well, this is partly
why we're doing this together is
because I don't know all the
facts set at hand. Yeah,
but they were helpful. They were
helpful. We Andrey managed to get
in touch with this clinic in
Belgrade, where it's not, at

English: 
least people who are treating
you it's not run by
psychiatrist, it's run by an
anesthesiologist, which seems to
be how you need to be treated.
Well it's working for it seems
to be working for me at the
present anyways, and that's the
best we've got. And it's pretty
good because I felt better.
Probably I felt better see the
things about the
benzodiazepines, two that I
didn't really understand until I
began to decrease their use. I
was very, I had become quite
isolated from my family members.
Yeah, I it was most noticeable,
I would say in my relationship
with my son. But it was like
there was a barrier between me
and people, it was noticeable.
It was noticeable.
I thought, I attributed that to
the strange twists and turns my
life had taken in the previous
two or three years because there
is no shortage of strangeness on
that front but, and then also, I
had strange muscle weakness that
plagued me and I now realized in

English: 
least people who are treating
you it's not run by
psychiatrist, it's run by an
anesthesiologist, which seems to
be how you need to be treated.
Well it's working for it seems
to be working for me at the
present anyways, and that's the
best we've got. And it's pretty
good because I felt better.
Probably I felt better see the
things about the
benzodiazepines, two that I
didn't really understand until I
began to decrease their use. I
was very, I had become quite
isolated from my family members.
Yeah, I it was most noticeable,
I would say in my relationship
with my son. But it was like
there was a barrier between me
and people, it was noticeable.
It was noticeable.
I thought, I attributed that to
the strange twists and turns my
life had taken in the previous
two or three years because there
is no shortage of strangeness on
that front but, and then also, I
had strange muscle weakness that
plagued me and I now realized in

English: 
retrospect Back then that was
all a consequence of
benzodiazepine use. So using it.
Well, this is part of the reason
we're doing this, this podcast
or video as well, it's to let
people know these are very
widely prescribed drugs. And
they are not safe to take for
more than two weeks or a month
at the absolute maximum. And if
you take them longer than that,
and you end up addicted, you're
gonna are dependent, which means
that you'll suffer withdrawal
symptoms on their cessation, you
are going to be one story
person, some people will, you
know, have a better time of it
when they stop their use than
others. But enough people have a
terrible time so that it's an
absolute it's a it's a medically
induced epidemic. It's a
complete bloody catastrophe
here. It's probably worse than
the opiate epidemic and that's
really saying something. So and
I don't know if I'm out of it or
not, you know, I mean, I'm, I
have a hard time believing how
much better I feel than I did

English: 
retrospect Back then that was
all a consequence of
benzodiazepine use. So using it.
Well, this is part of the reason
we're doing this, this podcast
or video as well, it's to let
people know these are very
widely prescribed drugs. And
they are not safe to take for
more than two weeks or a month
at the absolute maximum. And if
you take them longer than that,
and you end up addicted, you're
gonna are dependent, which means
that you'll suffer withdrawal
symptoms on their cessation, you
are going to be one story
person, some people will, you
know, have a better time of it
when they stop their use than
others. But enough people have a
terrible time so that it's an
absolute it's a it's a medically
induced epidemic. It's a
complete bloody catastrophe
here. It's probably worse than
the opiate epidemic and that's
really saying something. So and
I don't know if I'm out of it or
not, you know, I mean, I'm, I
have a hard time believing how
much better I feel than I did

English: 
two weeks ago. It's it's
definitely Doesn't seem
plausible. So, you know, it's
possible that things will just
deteriorate for me again,
although I wouldn't. I don't
feel like that at the moment. I
feel like things are put back
together in an important way.
Fortunately, one thing I've been
able to continue doing through
all of this as I'm writing a new
book, and it's due in the middle
of July, and that's going quite
well, and I was able to do that,
even when I was in these
different clinics, hospitalized
and all these different clinics.
I don't think I did any writing
in Russia. Now. No.
Hurry, and
yeah, at the very end you did
before we went to Florida. Yeah,
you were editing.
Yeah. Well, I remembered one
other thing we're going to
discuss, you know, some people.
Okay, first of all, I've had a
tremendous amount of support
from family members and friends.

English: 
two weeks ago. It's it's
definitely Doesn't seem
plausible. So, you know, it's
possible that things will just
deteriorate for me again,
although I wouldn't. I don't
feel like that at the moment. I
feel like things are put back
together in an important way.
Fortunately, one thing I've been
able to continue doing through
all of this as I'm writing a new
book, and it's due in the middle
of July, and that's going quite
well, and I was able to do that,
even when I was in these
different clinics, hospitalized
and all these different clinics.
I don't think I did any writing
in Russia. Now. No.
Hurry, and
yeah, at the very end you did
before we went to Florida. Yeah,
you were editing.
Yeah. Well, I remembered one
other thing we're going to
discuss, you know, some people.
Okay, first of all, I've had a
tremendous amount of support
from family members and friends.

English: 
Like really mentioned this
earlier, but it's worth
mentioning again, people have
gone far beyond the call of duty
to help me and Tammy and die in
the last year and a half. And
there's been an unbelievably
massive outpouring of public
support, which has really taken
me by surprise, in some sense,
because, you know, it's one
thing to be to express your
condolences. If you're
discussing someone who like my
wife is suffering from something
clearly of her not of that's
clearly not of her making
cancer, for example, but a
dependence is more ethically
questionable, right? Because you
think, Well, everyone thinks,
well, you know, what did the
person the person obviously made
some errors in choice that
contributed to this? And that's
a reasonable objection but and
despite the fact that

English: 
Like really mentioned this
earlier, but it's worth
mentioning again, people have
gone far beyond the call of duty
to help me and Tammy and die in
the last year and a half. And
there's been an unbelievably
massive outpouring of public
support, which has really taken
me by surprise, in some sense,
because, you know, it's one
thing to be to express your
condolences. If you're
discussing someone who like my
wife is suffering from something
clearly of her not of that's
clearly not of her making
cancer, for example, but a
dependence is more ethically
questionable, right? Because you
think, Well, everyone thinks,
well, you know, what did the
person the person obviously made
some errors in choice that
contributed to this? And that's
a reasonable objection but and
despite the fact that

English: 
There are many people who
found that their opinions didn't
align with mine, let's say the
proportion of negative comments
I got about what I was going
through was very small. So that
was really something.
But, nonetheless,
one of the things I wanted to
talk to you about today was the
fact that what's the old saying,
physician heal thyself, right. I
wrote a self help book. I'm a
psychologist. It's like, Well,
why the hell didn't I see this
coming? and Why wasn't I more
cautious? And I think those are
our reasonable question. Why
should people take it? Well, and
then that's the next question is
why should people take anything
I say seriously, because of
that. And I guess what I would
say is, if you're going to wait
to learn from people who don't
mistake, don't make mistakes, or

English: 
There are many people who
found that their opinions didn't
align with mine, let's say the
proportion of negative comments
I got about what I was going
through was very small. So that
was really something.
But, nonetheless,
one of the things I wanted to
talk to you about today was the
fact that what's the old saying,
physician heal thyself, right. I
wrote a self help book. I'm a
psychologist. It's like, Well,
why the hell didn't I see this
coming? and Why wasn't I more
cautious? And I think those are
our reasonable question. Why
should people take it? Well, and
then that's the next question is
why should people take anything
I say seriously, because of
that. And I guess what I would
say is, if you're going to wait
to learn from people who don't
mistake, don't make mistakes, or

English: 
don't have tragedy enter their
life. You're going to spend a
long time waiting to learn
something. And the second thing
I would say is, in my lectures
and my writings, I've never
suggested that I was anything
other than one of the people who
also needed to learn this
lesson, these lessons. So I
included myself in the
population of people who needed
some moral improvement. And
and then the last thing would be
you, you have to make that
decision about whether or not to
attend to anything that I'm
doing based on your own judgment
about what I've done and said,
and if you find it, that's not
convincing, then that's your
prerogative. And if you find
that it's useful then well, I'm
delighted by that, obviously.
And that's that that's as that's
as much as there is to say,

English: 
don't have tragedy enter their
life. You're going to spend a
long time waiting to learn
something. And the second thing
I would say is, in my lectures
and my writings, I've never
suggested that I was anything
other than one of the people who
also needed to learn this
lesson, these lessons. So I
included myself in the
population of people who needed
some moral improvement. And
and then the last thing would be
you, you have to make that
decision about whether or not to
attend to anything that I'm
doing based on your own judgment
about what I've done and said,
and if you find it, that's not
convincing, then that's your
prerogative. And if you find
that it's useful then well, I'm
delighted by that, obviously.
And that's that that's as that's
as much as there is to say,

English: 
I think one of the points of
doing this podcast was To inform
people so that other people
don't have to go through the
same thing you went through
because watching it from the
outside was the worst thing I've
ever seen.
Definitely.
And
hopefully educating people on
the dangers of this.
Well, that's saying something
because Weren't you awake when
they replaced your ankle? Last
year in January?
Oh, yeah. But that was like
there was still an element of
Yes, I was awake when they
replaced my ankle, because I was
trying to avoid the general
anesthesia because I didn't want
the general anesthesia hangover.
I should have just done the
general anesthesia, which is
something I realized when they
were hammering my ankle, but
yeah, watching you in how long
you've been in pain has been
significantly worse. And I did
want to mention too, because
people are going to be
wondering, why didn't you again
why you didn't get more help in

English: 
I think one of the points of
doing this podcast was To inform
people so that other people
don't have to go through the
same thing you went through
because watching it from the
outside was the worst thing I've
ever seen.
Definitely.
And
hopefully educating people on
the dangers of this.
Well, that's saying something
because Weren't you awake when
they replaced your ankle? Last
year in January?
Oh, yeah. But that was like
there was still an element of
Yes, I was awake when they
replaced my ankle, because I was
trying to avoid the general
anesthesia because I didn't want
the general anesthesia hangover.
I should have just done the
general anesthesia, which is
something I realized when they
were hammering my ankle, but
yeah, watching you in how long
you've been in pain has been
significantly worse. And I did
want to mention too, because
people are going to be
wondering, why didn't you again
why you didn't get more help in

English: 
North America. And one of the
reasons was we went to Russia,
we successfully got dad off of
benzos, which to clinics in
North America hadn't been able
to do. We did manage to do that.
And the damage that the benzos
had caused. And the detox caused
was significant. But there
wasn't any akathisia. So that
brought you back to Florida
because we thought, there's no
point in leaving you in a center
somewhere, right? You can come
back, you can stay with family,
and we can just wait and maybe
it's going to take two, two
years, it looked like it was
going to take a really long
time. If you were ever going to
recover fully. Without we'll
just it'll be more comfortable
in somewhere like Florida. And
we waited and it probably was a
while Moscow winter was a little
anxiety provoking, other than
the medical experience you were
going through was a little
anxiety provoking. So there was
Florida and then the pandemic

English: 
North America. And one of the
reasons was we went to Russia,
we successfully got dad off of
benzos, which to clinics in
North America hadn't been able
to do. We did manage to do that.
And the damage that the benzos
had caused. And the detox caused
was significant. But there
wasn't any akathisia. So that
brought you back to Florida
because we thought, there's no
point in leaving you in a center
somewhere, right? You can come
back, you can stay with family,
and we can just wait and maybe
it's going to take two, two
years, it looked like it was
going to take a really long
time. If you were ever going to
recover fully. Without we'll
just it'll be more comfortable
in somewhere like Florida. And
we waited and it probably was a
while Moscow winter was a little
anxiety provoking, other than
the medical experience you were
going through was a little
anxiety provoking. So there was
Florida and then the pandemic

English: 
Hit. So we didn't, we weren't
really able to go anywhere. And
Andrey and I spent months looking
for a place that would take you
and actually treat the
neurological damage done by the
benzodiazepines. Because this
wasn't like I was when I was 17
and had my ankle and hip done. I
took Oxycontin, a high level,
high dose of Oxycontin for a
year. And getting off of that I
experienced physical withdrawal,
no psychological withdrawal. So
I'm like, lots of people aren't
aware of the difference between
psychological and physical
abuse, the difference between
abuse and dependence.
Yeah, and physical withdrawals
means your body gets used to the
drug that you're on. And when
you take it away, it's as if
your body is missing something.
Yeah. So with that I had with
benzodiazepines.
Yeah. So it's actually difficult
to find. It's nearly impossible

English: 
Hit. So we didn't, we weren't
really able to go anywhere. And
Andrey and I spent months looking
for a place that would take you
and actually treat the
neurological damage done by the
benzodiazepines. Because this
wasn't like I was when I was 17
and had my ankle and hip done. I
took Oxycontin, a high level,
high dose of Oxycontin for a
year. And getting off of that I
experienced physical withdrawal,
no psychological withdrawal. So
I'm like, lots of people aren't
aware of the difference between
psychological and physical
abuse, the difference between
abuse and dependence.
Yeah, and physical withdrawals
means your body gets used to the
drug that you're on. And when
you take it away, it's as if
your body is missing something.
Yeah. So with that I had with
benzodiazepines.
Yeah. So it's actually difficult
to find. It's nearly impossible

English: 
to find physicians that know how
to treat neurological disease.
damage done by benzodiazepines.
It turns out, we couldn't find
anyone in North America. And we
contacted places because being
treated in North America is
would be easier than being
treated in somewhere that the
main language isn't English,
right. And so it took us five
months of negotiations to find
the clinic in Belgrade, where
there was an anesthesiologist
who could treat you and thank
God that he apparently knows
what he's doing. And then we got
here, two days after we Serbia
opened, so we weren't waiting
around, like twiddling our
thumbs, trying to figure out
what to do with you. We were
actively looking for physicians
that could help you but there
weren't any and we were
absolutely terrified that we'd
bring you to a psychiatrist in
North America or a center there,
and they'd say, his anxieties
through the roof, put them on
benzos
right. And then

English: 
to find physicians that know how
to treat neurological disease.
damage done by benzodiazepines.
It turns out, we couldn't find
anyone in North America. And we
contacted places because being
treated in North America is
would be easier than being
treated in somewhere that the
main language isn't English,
right. And so it took us five
months of negotiations to find
the clinic in Belgrade, where
there was an anesthesiologist
who could treat you and thank
God that he apparently knows
what he's doing. And then we got
here, two days after we Serbia
opened, so we weren't waiting
around, like twiddling our
thumbs, trying to figure out
what to do with you. We were
actively looking for physicians
that could help you but there
weren't any and we were
absolutely terrified that we'd
bring you to a psychiatrist in
North America or a center there,
and they'd say, his anxieties
through the roof, put them on
benzos
right. And then

English: 
That would have been terrible.
So
we get locked everywhere. And
it's been very complicated.
Yes, that's for sure. And it's
been very complicated.
And so, you know, maybe we've,
well, we're confident enough
that we've come out the other
side of it, at least to some
degree that we were willing to
risk making this interview this
video. So yeah, and you know,
the reason we're doing it apart
from telling people that they
should be exceptionally careful
with benzodiazepine
prescriptions, and like a very
large number of elderly people
are prescribed benzodiazepines,
most of them women, but plenty
of men too. And that's, you do
that at your peril. It also
increases the risk of dementia
quite substantially. So that's a
lovely, additional benefit. So

English: 
That would have been terrible.
So
we get locked everywhere. And
it's been very complicated.
Yes, that's for sure. And it's
been very complicated.
And so, you know, maybe we've,
well, we're confident enough
that we've come out the other
side of it, at least to some
degree that we were willing to
risk making this interview this
video. So yeah, and you know,
the reason we're doing it apart
from telling people that they
should be exceptionally careful
with benzodiazepine
prescriptions, and like a very
large number of elderly people
are prescribed benzodiazepines,
most of them women, but plenty
of men too. And that's, you do
that at your peril. It also
increases the risk of dementia
quite substantially. So that's a
lovely, additional benefit. So

English: 
watch it. It's it's a It's a
catastrophe that benzodiazepines
are being prescribed the way
they are so broadly. And so
there's that but then also, we
felt that because I don't know
how you'd say it, because people
had been party to my certain
elements of my private life. And
me too, there's perhaps that it
was morally obligatory to bring
people who were interested up to
date on what's occurred. So, so
far so good. You know, it's been
nice to see you and Andrey get a
break for at least a couple of
weeks. And it's been really nice
not to be terrified out of my
mind for I mean, in Florida, the
best I ever got was not

English: 
watch it. It's it's a It's a
catastrophe that benzodiazepines
are being prescribed the way
they are so broadly. And so
there's that but then also, we
felt that because I don't know
how you'd say it, because people
had been party to my certain
elements of my private life. And
me too, there's perhaps that it
was morally obligatory to bring
people who were interested up to
date on what's occurred. So, so
far so good. You know, it's been
nice to see you and Andrey get a
break for at least a couple of
weeks. And it's been really nice
not to be terrified out of my
mind for I mean, in Florida, the
best I ever got was not

English: 
petrified with anxiety, but
close to it. And I had that for
a few days in a row a couple of
times, but here
I have my hand has a tremor my
left hand.
Yeah, one of the things with
benzodiazepine dependence is it
increases your seizure right
after you stop taking them. So
this is how serious to give an
example about how serious this
physical dependency can be, is
for some people, even on a low
dose of benzodiazepines, if they
become dependent on it and stop,
they can have seizures. That's
how that's how intense the brain
changes can be. So you on each
Caesar increases the risk of the
next one. You've been at a
Caesar risk for six months.
You're still if you're not on
anticonvulsants. So then you
have tremors everywhere and
you're a seizure risk, right?
That's ridiculous for six months
after taking
after stopping. Well, that's
because I haven't lately. Well,

English: 
petrified with anxiety, but
close to it. And I had that for
a few days in a row a couple of
times, but here
I have my hand has a tremor my
left hand.
Yeah, one of the things with
benzodiazepine dependence is it
increases your seizure right
after you stop taking them. So
this is how serious to give an
example about how serious this
physical dependency can be, is
for some people, even on a low
dose of benzodiazepines, if they
become dependent on it and stop,
they can have seizures. That's
how that's how intense the brain
changes can be. So you on each
Caesar increases the risk of the
next one. You've been at a
Caesar risk for six months.
You're still if you're not on
anticonvulsants. So then you
have tremors everywhere and
you're a seizure risk, right?
That's ridiculous for six months
after taking
after stopping. Well, that's
because I haven't lately. Well,

English: 
it was interesting to be Because
I was so appalled by what the
benzodiazepines had done that
while I went from four
milligrams a day to zero last
May, and that wasn't tolerable.
So I went back up but not
part of the reason you did that
people would be like, why would
you do that you're supposed to
taper First of all, if you don't
know about benzodiazepines, it's
not obvious that you have to
taper. But we you also went to a
psychiatrist to deal with your
worsening anxiety that you
thought was mainly attributed to
mom's cancer. And his suggestion
was try ketamine and stop the
benzodiazepine. Right? So that
was the first psychiatrist. We
tried. Yes, right. And we went
to we saw at least five of them
in different areas, before we
got to Russia. So it's not like
we didn't give North America a
good try. It's just you I mean,
you ended up you got worse and
worse and worse.

English: 
it was interesting to be Because
I was so appalled by what the
benzodiazepines had done that
while I went from four
milligrams a day to zero last
May, and that wasn't tolerable.
So I went back up but not
part of the reason you did that
people would be like, why would
you do that you're supposed to
taper First of all, if you don't
know about benzodiazepines, it's
not obvious that you have to
taper. But we you also went to a
psychiatrist to deal with your
worsening anxiety that you
thought was mainly attributed to
mom's cancer. And his suggestion
was try ketamine and stop the
benzodiazepine. Right? So that
was the first psychiatrist. We
tried. Yes, right. And we went
to we saw at least five of them
in different areas, before we
got to Russia. So it's not like
we didn't give North America a
good try. It's just you I mean,
you ended up you got worse and
worse and worse.

English: 
They're generally insisted on
doing was, quote, treating the
underlying problem, quote when
the when the underlying problem
was benzodiazepine withdrawal
not some other issue. Yeah, they
didn't know what to do with
benzodiazepine withdrawal. So
they tried to treat something
they didn't know what to do with
that didn't exist. Yeah, at
least in all probability didn't
exist.
Yes.
Do you got treated by you went
you went to two different
clinics, and then multiple other
psychiatrists, and they tried to
treat your underlying problem.
Yes. Which it we had to have
huge arguments about No, this
isn't an underlying. There's no
underlying problem. This is a
benzodiazepine dependency, and
we need to get him off of it.
But he can't tolerate it because
they akathisia so how do you make
him more comfortable while he's
winning down and the only way
they had no
idea what to do? That's right.
And that's something they've
been very good at this clinic.
Yeah. And advising you and me,

English: 
They're generally insisted on
doing was, quote, treating the
underlying problem, quote when
the when the underlying problem
was benzodiazepine withdrawal
not some other issue. Yeah, they
didn't know what to do with
benzodiazepine withdrawal. So
they tried to treat something
they didn't know what to do with
that didn't exist. Yeah, at
least in all probability didn't
exist.
Yes.
Do you got treated by you went
you went to two different
clinics, and then multiple other
psychiatrists, and they tried to
treat your underlying problem.
Yes. Which it we had to have
huge arguments about No, this
isn't an underlying. There's no
underlying problem. This is a
benzodiazepine dependency, and
we need to get him off of it.
But he can't tolerate it because
they akathisia so how do you make
him more comfortable while he's
winning down and the only way
they had no
idea what to do? That's right.
And that's something they've
been very good at this clinic.
Yeah. And advising you and me,

English: 
for that matter. For the last
few months while I've been
trying to get my head screwed on
straight again.
Yeah, they tried helping us from
afar, but we needed more help
than that. So I guess one of the
things we've learned from this
is, there may be ways to treat
benzodiazepine withdrawal,
right, that we're not aware of
in North America that I'm aware
of. Yeah, so maybe ways
we'll talk about this again, at
some point in the relatively
near future, especially when
we're more certain that what is
happening to me now is working
Yeah, it's only been two weeks
and like it looks great. I'm in
way better shape center.
You can listen to music and
you're writing every day
like I am. I can, I can write I
can create not just edit. Yeah,
yeah. And yeah, it's a real
relief to get my my love for
music back and that's like a
switch screen turned on because

English: 
for that matter. For the last
few months while I've been
trying to get my head screwed on
straight again.
Yeah, they tried helping us from
afar, but we needed more help
than that. So I guess one of the
things we've learned from this
is, there may be ways to treat
benzodiazepine withdrawal,
right, that we're not aware of
in North America that I'm aware
of. Yeah, so maybe ways
we'll talk about this again, at
some point in the relatively
near future, especially when
we're more certain that what is
happening to me now is working
Yeah, it's only been two weeks
and like it looks great. I'm in
way better shape center.
You can listen to music and
you're writing every day
like I am. I can, I can write I
can create not just edit. Yeah,
yeah. And yeah, it's a real
relief to get my my love for
music back and that's like a
switch screen turned on because

English: 
it was gone completely. And now
it's back completely. Very, very
strange.
So, yeah. So well, we will talk
more about what's helped. If we
know that it's helped Yes.
Then we could suggest to people
what might be tried in the
absence of any other option what
they can talk to their doctor,
I'd
like to reiterate, you know,
I don't remember what I think
it's one prescription, either in
seven or one prescription in
nine in the United States is
either for opiates or
benzodiazepines. So that's a
huge obviously a huge proportion
of the prescriptions and
there's, it's very probable that
someone in your family is
currently taking benzodiazepines
or will be prescribed them in
the future for long enough to
develop a dependence. Like
people need to know this. It's
not good. Those drugs are for

English: 
it was gone completely. And now
it's back completely. Very, very
strange.
So, yeah. So well, we will talk
more about what's helped. If we
know that it's helped Yes.
Then we could suggest to people
what might be tried in the
absence of any other option what
they can talk to their doctor,
I'd
like to reiterate, you know,
I don't remember what I think
it's one prescription, either in
seven or one prescription in
nine in the United States is
either for opiates or
benzodiazepines. So that's a
huge obviously a huge proportion
of the prescriptions and
there's, it's very probable that
someone in your family is
currently taking benzodiazepines
or will be prescribed them in
the future for long enough to
develop a dependence. Like
people need to know this. It's
not good. Those drugs are for

English: 
short term treatment of stroke,
stress induced anger. It
or for surgery? They're used in
surgery. Right? Yeah.
But as a as a long term
treatment, they're complete
catastrophe.
Yeah. And not everybody like,
you know, there'll be the person
or two that will say, Well, I
took them and I got off of Yeah,
and that's true. But if you, it
seems, if you look at the
statistics, if you're older,
then it's harder, you're more
likely to form a dependency,
right? And maybe that's because
your brain isn't as plastic
maybe it takes just longer to
heal from
what's also true of opiates,
like not everybody who takes
opiates for a long period of
time develops a pronounced
dependence. There's lots of
individual variability, but the
risk is still extremely high.
Hmm.
I had people message me after
the video and September saying
they'd gotten off of multiple
drugs, and that benzodiazepines
had been the most difficult by
far mm hmm on people with

English: 
short term treatment of stroke,
stress induced anger. It
or for surgery? They're used in
surgery. Right? Yeah.
But as a as a long term
treatment, they're complete
catastrophe.
Yeah. And not everybody like,
you know, there'll be the person
or two that will say, Well, I
took them and I got off of Yeah,
and that's true. But if you, it
seems, if you look at the
statistics, if you're older,
then it's harder, you're more
likely to form a dependency,
right? And maybe that's because
your brain isn't as plastic
maybe it takes just longer to
heal from
what's also true of opiates,
like not everybody who takes
opiates for a long period of
time develops a pronounced
dependence. There's lots of
individual variability, but the
risk is still extremely high.
Hmm.
I had people message me after
the video and September saying
they'd gotten off of multiple
drugs, and that benzodiazepines
had been the most difficult by
far mm hmm on people with

English: 
experience with opiates as or
heroin or something, said
benzodiazepine was completely
Well,
I'd had bouts of depression
before, before last fall, let's
say in my life, and I would have
to say those were among the most
among the worst experiences of
my life, but I'd have to say
that after searching long and
hard for something that was
worse than depression, I finally
discovered it in akathisia.
Depression was, remember, we
talked about that, right? And
because you had suffered bouts
of depression, as well as the
arthritis, and one one
definition we agreed on was that
being depressed was like,
hearing that your dog had just
died. Yeah, remembering that
continually and then died and
yeah, you thought that and there
was a dog you actually like a
lot. You thought, well, that's
bad, but it's not nearly as bad

English: 
experience with opiates as or
heroin or something, said
benzodiazepine was completely
Well,
I'd had bouts of depression
before, before last fall, let's
say in my life, and I would have
to say those were among the most
among the worst experiences of
my life, but I'd have to say
that after searching long and
hard for something that was
worse than depression, I finally
discovered it in akathisia.
Depression was, remember, we
talked about that, right? And
because you had suffered bouts
of depression, as well as the
arthritis, and one one
definition we agreed on was that
being depressed was like,
hearing that your dog had just
died. Yeah, remembering that
continually and then died and
yeah, you thought that and there
was a dog you actually like a
lot. You thought, well, that's
bad, but it's not nearly as bad

English: 
Was depression not even close?
Right?
Not even close. I thought it was
going to be as bad but then my
dog died and I was like not
depression is way worse sucks
the joy out of absolutely
everything. can't even see
colors vividly like the joy out
of seeing colors, which you
don't even think there's joy
associated with that, but
right because well with severe
depression, you lose positive
emotion and gain a lot of
negative emotion. But with this
akathisia it was like, all of the
negative emotion associated with
depression plus a very high
level of anxiety, plus no
positive emotion at all. Plus
the inability to ever relax even
for a moment. And so it was
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it.
Yes, watch the hell out for
benzodiazepines, they're
probably not your friend or if
they are they're not your friend
for very long

English: 
Was depression not even close?
Right?
Not even close. I thought it was
going to be as bad but then my
dog died and I was like not
depression is way worse sucks
the joy out of absolutely
everything. can't even see
colors vividly like the joy out
of seeing colors, which you
don't even think there's joy
associated with that, but
right because well with severe
depression, you lose positive
emotion and gain a lot of
negative emotion. But with this
akathisia it was like, all of the
negative emotion associated with
depression plus a very high
level of anxiety, plus no
positive emotion at all. Plus
the inability to ever relax even
for a moment. And so it was
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it.
Yes, watch the hell out for
benzodiazepines, they're
probably not your friend or if
they are they're not your friend
for very long

English: 
though. And one of the weird
things. I was prescribed
Lorazepam for sleep. I didn't
take it very often because I
found it didn't work very well,
thank goodness. But the funny
thing about them, especially at
a low dose is they don't, or
they didn't, for me anyway
induce any type of euphoria. So
when you take an opiate when I
took the Oxycontin, I didn't
like it. But there was some sort
of high that had to do with the
pain medication. But with the
Lorazepam there was just an
absence of something. So I think
it's probably a sneakier drug to
be on.
Right? Because
I think that's partly why I
didn't notice what it was doing
to me too, is that there was no
immediate effect in the day of
taking it. I mean, I stopped
having that terrible reaction
that we attributed to food. And
so that eliminated the insomnia

English: 
though. And one of the weird
things. I was prescribed
Lorazepam for sleep. I didn't
take it very often because I
found it didn't work very well,
thank goodness. But the funny
thing about them, especially at
a low dose is they don't, or
they didn't, for me anyway
induce any type of euphoria. So
when you take an opiate when I
took the Oxycontin, I didn't
like it. But there was some sort
of high that had to do with the
pain medication. But with the
Lorazepam there was just an
absence of something. So I think
it's probably a sneakier drug to
be on.
Right? Because
I think that's partly why I
didn't notice what it was doing
to me too, is that there was no
immediate effect in the day of
taking it. I mean, I stopped
having that terrible reaction
that we attributed to food. And
so that eliminated the insomnia

English: 
and the anxiety but there was no
noticeable effect from the
benzodiazepines and so I just
never paid any attention to
them. It never occurred to me
that they could be causing me
serious, long term
damage. It also taken SSRIs for
over a decade. Yes, I
were depressant, anti anxiety
medication
that turns out. Turns out those
are not the same medications.
And I
even knew that to some degree
because I knew that
SSRIs the antidepressants were
much more effective long term
treatments for panic disorder,
then benzodiazepines, you know,
but it's quite shocking to me
actually, that I didn't know.
Despite my professional
specialty that I had no idea how
catastrophic benzodiazepine use
could be
any well, psychologists don't
aren't psychiatrists

English: 
and the anxiety but there was no
noticeable effect from the
benzodiazepines and so I just
never paid any attention to
them. It never occurred to me
that they could be causing me
serious, long term
damage. It also taken SSRIs for
over a decade. Yes, I
were depressant, anti anxiety
medication
that turns out. Turns out those
are not the same medications.
And I
even knew that to some degree
because I knew that
SSRIs the antidepressants were
much more effective long term
treatments for panic disorder,
then benzodiazepines, you know,
but it's quite shocking to me
actually, that I didn't know.
Despite my professional
specialty that I had no idea how
catastrophic benzodiazepine use
could be
any well, psychologists don't
aren't psychiatrists

English: 
psychologists prescribe
medication. Psychologists
Council.
Right.
But it's still useful to keep up
on the relevant literature
on that now, you know,
yes. Well, no, I definitely I
don't think I'll forget that.
Yes. So, you know, it's funny.
Maybe we'll stop with this. Once
I started to decrease by use of
benzodiazepines, I was never
tempted to go back up, except
right at the beginning when I
went to zero and had to
tell you, we're gonna have a
seizure. Yeah, it wasn't good.
You I couldn't even communicate
with you. But I
thought after I got out of the
Russian hospital that somewhat
even if someone put a gun to my
head and said,
Take this.
Yeah, I wouldn't. Well, in the
like, I think I really think
that for me, that it's no
overstatement that to say that
for me, the consequences of
benzodiazepine withdrawal were
worse than death. So, yes,

English: 
psychologists prescribe
medication. Psychologists
Council.
Right.
But it's still useful to keep up
on the relevant literature
on that now, you know,
yes. Well, no, I definitely I
don't think I'll forget that.
Yes. So, you know, it's funny.
Maybe we'll stop with this. Once
I started to decrease by use of
benzodiazepines, I was never
tempted to go back up, except
right at the beginning when I
went to zero and had to
tell you, we're gonna have a
seizure. Yeah, it wasn't good.
You I couldn't even communicate
with you. But I
thought after I got out of the
Russian hospital that somewhat
even if someone put a gun to my
head and said,
Take this.
Yeah, I wouldn't. Well, in the
like, I think I really think
that for me, that it's no
overstatement that to say that
for me, the consequences of
benzodiazepine withdrawal were
worse than death. So, yes,

English: 
that's what it looked like from
Yes, well, it it. You know, you
don't want to say something like
that lightly. You know, but
there were lots of times plenty
of times when it would have been
preferable as far as I could
tell just not to be there than
to experience what I was
experiencing.
When you when you're in pain,
people who are in I mean, being
at a certain level of pain is
like that. If you're walking
around, you know anything over
really like a seven or an eight,
you can't stand it. Yeah. So
that's what it looked like from
the outside.
Well, the other thing that that
that the benzodiazepine
withdrawal did that was
absolutely dreadful was produce
a sense of time distortion. So
this was really obvious when I
first woke up in Russia, like
the first day that you and I

English: 
that's what it looked like from
Yes, well, it it. You know, you
don't want to say something like
that lightly. You know, but
there were lots of times plenty
of times when it would have been
preferable as far as I could
tell just not to be there than
to experience what I was
experiencing.
When you when you're in pain,
people who are in I mean, being
at a certain level of pain is
like that. If you're walking
around, you know anything over
really like a seven or an eight,
you can't stand it. Yeah. So
that's what it looked like from
the outside.
Well, the other thing that that
that the benzodiazepine
withdrawal did that was
absolutely dreadful was produce
a sense of time distortion. So
this was really obvious when I
first woke up in Russia, like
the first day that you and I

English: 
could speak again, you were
wheeling me around in the I'll
have the corridor of the
intensive care unit. We were
going to we'll I was going to be
wheeled around until it was time
for time to eat.
And
I must have asked you how many
times in 10 minutes what time it
was
probably every 45 seconds,
probably something like that.
Yeah. And that's because, for
me, it felt like, you know, a
substantial amount of time had
passed an hour, two hours,
something like that some
terrible amount of time. And so
not only was I in pain, and
experiencing extremely high
levels of anxiety, the duration
of time had extended so that it
was really unbearable. It was
like the days were just lasting
forever. And that's thanks that
actually disappeared quite a
bit. As the akathisia
disappeared, and it isn't the
case now, thank God but it was

English: 
could speak again, you were
wheeling me around in the I'll
have the corridor of the
intensive care unit. We were
going to we'll I was going to be
wheeled around until it was time
for time to eat.
And
I must have asked you how many
times in 10 minutes what time it
was
probably every 45 seconds,
probably something like that.
Yeah. And that's because, for
me, it felt like, you know, a
substantial amount of time had
passed an hour, two hours,
something like that some
terrible amount of time. And so
not only was I in pain, and
experiencing extremely high
levels of anxiety, the duration
of time had extended so that it
was really unbearable. It was
like the days were just lasting
forever. And that's thanks that
actually disappeared quite a
bit. As the akathisia
disappeared, and it isn't the
case now, thank God but it was

English: 
it was brutal. It's funny even
now, you know, because it's
somewhat stressful to have this
conversation. I can feel if I
lift up my eyes, my eyebrows a
bit like you might when you're
interested in something, I can
feel the tremors and tremors in
my forehead. And that's partly
stress induced. So we should
probably stop talking.
Yeah, okay. We can call it a
day.
Yes. Well, was good to be able
to sit here and have this
conversation.
We're gonna go eat a steak.
That's the theory. Okay. All
right. Well, thank you for
talking with me. Wow. Thanks for
thanks for being here. It's been
a hell of a year.
Thanks for your help too.
Yeah, well, I wasn't gonna give
up. And now we're in Belgrade
and seem to have found an
answer. Thank god

English: 
it was brutal. It's funny even
now, you know, because it's
somewhat stressful to have this
conversation. I can feel if I
lift up my eyes, my eyebrows a
bit like you might when you're
interested in something, I can
feel the tremors and tremors in
my forehead. And that's partly
stress induced. So we should
probably stop talking.
Yeah, okay. We can call it a
day.
Yes. Well, was good to be able
to sit here and have this
conversation.
We're gonna go eat a steak.
That's the theory. Okay. All
right. Well, thank you for
talking with me. Wow. Thanks for
thanks for being here. It's been
a hell of a year.
Thanks for your help do.
Yeah, well, I wasn't gonna give
up. And now we're in Belgrade
and seem to have found an
answer. Thank god

English: 
Thanks for listening.
I've linked everything we talked
about in the description. The
rare type of cancer my mom had
sodium metabolic sulfide allergy
symptoms that caused the
original prescription for benzos
papers on paradoxical reactions
to benzos benzo statistics on
dependency, information on
akathisia, something everyone
should be aware of, and other
people's experiences with
benzodiazepines. What my dad
went and is going through isn't
as uncommon as we're told.
benzodiazepine withdrawal can be
a life or death situation. If it
doesn't make the people who
suffer through it so miserable,
they're suicidal, they could be
at risk for seizures. Many
people do not make it. My dad
was forced to detox because the
akathisia caused by the benzos
was intolerable. And we had to
abandon the prescribed tapering
approach after many excruciating
months. detoxing from benzos is
dangerous and nearly killed him.
But the state the
benzodiazepines had put them in
was more dangerous. And this is

English: 
Thanks for listening.
I've linked everything we talked
about in the description. The
rare type of cancer my mom had
sodium metabolic sulfide allergy
symptoms that caused the
original prescription for benzos
papers on paradoxical reactions
to benzos benzo statistics on
dependency, information on
akathisia, something everyone
should be aware of, and other
people's experiences with
benzodiazepines. What my dad
went and is going through isn't
as uncommon as we're told.
benzodiazepine withdrawal can be
a life or death situation. If it
doesn't make the people who
suffer through it so miserable,
they're suicidal, they could be
at risk for seizures. Many
people do not make it. My dad
was forced to detox because the
akathisia caused by the benzos
was intolerable. And we had to
abandon the prescribed tapering
approach after many excruciating
months. detoxing from benzos is
dangerous and nearly killed him.
But the state the
benzodiazepines had put them in
was more dangerous. And this is

English: 
Too uncommon. Most of the
celebrity deaths we hear about
are benzo related. We're told
about the opiates involved in
these cases, but benzos aren't
as commonly mentioned, Heath
Ledger, Amy Winehouse, Michael
Jackson, Philip Seymour Hoffman,
Whitney Houston, Tom Petty, Anna
Nicole Smith, all had benzos
related to their deaths. When
you look at what happened to
these individuals, you might
think, well, that couldn't
happen to me. But don't be so
sure. We had all the resources
we could have. And it took us
over a year to remove the drug
and stabilize my dad so that he
could function again and not
feel like he was in how he still
has neurological damage from the
benzos. And it's been six months
since he stopped taking them.
He's still at a risk for
seizures.
Fortunately, we've found world
class physicians who are
treating them properly now. It
was not easy to locate these
people who would have guessed
they'd be in Serbia. We are
going to disclose what's helping
my dad once we're more sure that

English: 
Too uncommon. Most of the
celebrity deaths we hear about
are benzo related. We're told
about the opiates involved in
these cases, but benzos aren't
as commonly mentioned, Heath
Ledger, Amy Winehouse, Michael
Jackson, Philip Seymour Hoffman,
Whitney Houston, Tom Petty, Anna
Nicole Smith, all had benzos
related to their deaths. When
you look at what happened to
these individuals, you might
think, well, that couldn't
happen to me. But don't be so
sure. We had all the resources
we could have. And it took us
over a year to remove the drug
and stabilize my dad so that he
could function again and not
feel like he was in how he still
has neurological damage from the
benzos. And it's been six months
since he stopped taking them.
He's still at a risk for
seizures.
Fortunately, we've found world
class physicians who are
treating them properly now. It
was not easy to locate these
people who would have guessed
they'd be in Serbia. We are
going to disclose what's helping
my dad once we're more sure that

English: 
the treatment is reliable.
Working. Hopefully this podcast
will help other people avoid the
horror My family has had to
experience and is still
experiencing because of
benzodiazepines. There are
hidden dragons everywhere. I'm
just thankful My dad is back.
Talk to you next week.

English: 
the treatment is reliable.
Working. Hopefully this podcast
will help other people avoid the
horror My family has had to
experience and is still
experiencing because of
benzodiazepines. There are
hidden dragons everywhere. I'm
just thankful My dad is back.
Talk to you next week.
