lots to talk about today on the podcast
as we survey the global disorder and
today we're going to go south to
Venezuela where opposition parties held
an unofficial referendum yesterday on
the Maduro government's efforts to
rewrite that nation's Constitution and
cement Maduro the dictator strongman in
place for years to come
nearly seven million Venezuelans inside
the country came out to vote they voted
overwhelmingly against the government a
remarkable display of human courage and
I'm very happy to welcome our Americas
columnist Mary Anastasia O'Grady to
discuss hi Mary
hi great to be with you I want to set
aside just for a moment whether or not
this referendum is going to do anything
but just to remark on how courageous
these people are to get out on the
streets given nearly a hundred people
have been murdered by the Maduro regime
you have a 61 year old woman killed at a
polling station just yesterday four more
people wounded by the pro-government
thugs really a remarkable display of
courage yeah I was very impressed by it
prior to the vote I was a little bit
worried because they didn't have much
time to put it together and they also
don't have much in the way of resources
it's very hard to get dollars in the
country that currency is completely
destroyed so it just from a purely
organizational standpoint it was a
challenge and then as you say the other
problem was that um between the National
Guard the Bolivarian police and the
civilian clothed enforcers that are
called they're known as colectivos in
the and they by the government it's very
dangerous to go out on those kinds of
days and there was one woman killed in
Katia and it was by a group of
colectivos who were you know basically
acting as enforcers for the government
on and yet people turned out and I think
a big part of that is
the level of desperation I've written in
my column before that I think that
they've hit a point where there's just
no going back
you know over the years they've had
protests but the protests have died down
and so forth and I think because of the
food shortages they've reached a point
where they feel quite desperate and
yesterday in some sense it was
courageous but it was also a display of
the the desperation that the nation
feels you know when I saw the vote I was
reminded of my time in Hong Kong where
the government used to say yeah we know
what the people want we're going to
solicit input on democracy and then they
would kind of selectively take
submissions from pro-beijing groups and
then declare that actually you know Hong
Kongers don't really want democracy but
it just goes to show doesn't it but you
never really know for sure unless people
can go into the polling booths and the
secrecy of the polling booths and tell
you exactly what they want
well actually I think in this case
because Hong Kong may be a little bit
different but in this case I think it
was it's pretty well known that
something around 80% of the country is
opposes the current government now that
doesn't mean that they all want to
return to you know a free-market economy
or go to a free market economy I think a
number of those people are people who
were great supporters of Lubow Chavez
and they feel like Nicolas Maduro who is
currently running the country has
betrayed the revolution now of course
what they don't know because probably
you know the information doesn't flow
very easily in Venezuela but the big
difference between my little and Chavez
is the fall in oil prices
Chavez enjoyed $100 barrel oil and you
know the Venezuelan oil is the cells at
a discount to even West Texas
Intermediate so the country is just
significantly poorer that it was solely
because of the price of oil and then
also if you layer on top of that you
know the breakdown and in the actual
production of the oil because the wells
haven't been then pained they haven't
done
exploration and development over the
years there's been a huge amount of
corruption so the money that should have
gone to bring up more oil has gone into
the pockets of criminals of the criminal
government
so people are widely unhappy with this I
think that the idea of the referendum
was to actually document it and as you
say it was an extremely courageous
moment display of of determination that
people have that they need to change
this government you a lot of listeners
out there might not know or might wonder
why the Maduro regime has not fallen
already given the desperation that you
just talked about Mary and your column
today I thought was was wonderful very
revealing titled how Cuba runs Venezuela
folks out there I want to read it can go
to wsj.com forward slash opinion and you
document in there how Havana props up
the Maduro regime and some of the
numbers here I think are worth repeating
you quote a source Roberto Alvarez
quinones who says they're almost I'm
quoting here 50 high-ranking Cuban
military officers 4,500 Cuban soldiers
in nine battalions and 34,000 doctors
and health professionals with orders to
defend the tyranny with arms
it sounds like Venezuela has just become
a Cuban proxy state am I am i
overstating that Mary yeah no you're not
in fact if I were to explain why he has
not fallen I would say well there's a
four-letter word that explains that and
it's Cuba they are you know basically
using a Soviet style apparatus to
control information and if you cannot
communicate which you know the best
chance of some sort of either peaceful
or none peaceful bringing down the
dictatorship would be when the military
becomes unhappy and certainly there are
numerous soldiers and officers who are
unhappy with the terrible poverty
that they have created and with the
system but those officers and soldiers
cannot communicate and the reason is
because the military is completely
infiltrated with Cuban on State Security
Intelligence counterintelligence and so
forth and so if one person talks and
they're heard by Cuba by one of these
agents they are carted away and the fear
factor is quite significant and without
being able to communicate you can't
organize and without being able to
organize you can't you know make a play
for the middle o de calais which is
where the head of the government is I
don't like to say president but yeah
well he's head of a guy head of the
government yeah it's remarkable that
this is all happening just a couple
hours flight from from Miami you know
that the timing here of this referendum
that was held
he's also important because the gut
Maduro government is going to hold a
Constituent Assembly on July 30th to
essentially rewrite the Constitution
marry judging from your remarks here
about the extent to which Cuba props up
this regime it sounds like that assembly
will go ahead a question I have is if
they do it sounds like we're going to
see even more more protests and more
blood in the streets well the main
reason for this assembly is basically to
be able to you know use quote-unquote
legal means you know they'll say that
what we have this assembly and the
assembly is decided to shut down the the
National Assembly which is the
unicameral legislature and that's that's
what mother wants to do because the
legislature is in the hands of the
opposition and this has been a problem
for him they you know as you know in
democracies different branches of
government check the power of other
branches that's normal and he doesn't
like that so that's the purpose of his
he's holding these elections and they
would elect representatives who would
then be charged with drafting this new
constitution which would be the final
death knell for any kind of pluralism in
the country and so you know as you say
it looks like they'll probably go ahead
with it but it's certainly it's it's
just like the referendum yesterday
doesn't solve anything because Cuba's in
charge the National Assembly won't
change the fact that people are in the
streets extremely unhappy and and that
the country is facing famine I mean
people you know the statistics show that
people are losing a lot of weight
the average Venezuelan has lost more
than ten pounds but sort of an average
that's very hard to measure but I think
in the rural areas it's much more
difficult because what people don't
understand is they think about food but
food requires a distribution network and
there are no automotive parts great
shortages of supplies on emotive parts
and all of this in a country that used
to be one of the richest in Latin
America
you
you
