Sir David Attenborough:
Today is my 89th birthday,
and to my very considerable
surprise I find myself in
the place that I've never
been to before and which it
is a great, great
privilege to visit.
The White House, with the
President of the United States.
The Oval Office is surely
one of the most famous rooms
in the whole world, where
history has been enacted.
The home of arguably the
most powerful man in the world.
So to go to it is a huge
privilege, and perhaps a
rather daunting one at that.
All I can say here was that
it was not made to seem
daunting, and the President
of the United States spoke
to me in as friendly a tone
as I could possibly imagine.
Friendly and
hospitable and genuine.
It was an extraordinary
experience which I shall
never forget.
The President: Well, Sir
David Attenborough, thank
you so much for being here.
As I was telling you on our
walk over, I had been a huge
admirer of your work
for a very long time.
I have to say, though, that
when I heard that you had
gone down, you had dove into
the Great Barrier Reef again
-- 60 years after the
first time you did it?
Sir David Attenborough: Yes.
The President:
That impressed me.
Sir David Attenborough: But
I was in the -- in a sub.
I mean, I was in a very,
very remarkable research sub.
And we went down
to over 300 meters.
The President: Oh, so
you were (inaudible).
Sir David Attenborough: And
that was just mind-blowing,
of course.
The President: Absolutely.
I -- tell me how the Great
Barrier Reef looked to you
today compared to the first
time that you went there,
and what's your -- what
story does that tell us
about how we're doing in
conserving these
incredible treasures?
Sir David Attenborough:
Well, of course, the whole
population of Australia has
increased a very great deal.
So the population up the
east coast of Queensland has
grown, and so has industry.
And wherever there are human
beings, wherever there's
industry, there
are consequences.
And the consequences on the
coast are likely to be not
too good for the reef,
though -- which is quite true.
And the Australians
are addressing that.
The real problem on the Reef
is the global one, which is
what is happening with the
increase in acidification
and the rise in the
ocean temperature.
And the Australians have
done research on coral now,
and they know for sure that
if they go up beyond a
degree or a degree and a
half, and so on, it will
kill coral, will kill
the species of coral.
And what they're concerned
about now is -- I mean, that
seems almost inevitable --
what it seems now is, can
they -- can they find the
right species to maintain
the Reef's population?
The President: Right.
So really there's a
mitigation strategy that
they're trying
to come up with.
But what we're seeing is
global trends that depend on
the entire world
working together.
Sir David Attenborough: Yes.
The President: And, sadly,
it seems as if we haven't
made as much progress as we
need to on climate change now.
Given the work that you've
done, though, the good news
is that there are some areas
where we have made progress.
We've been able to -- here
in the United States, for
example, with the Clean Air,
Clean Water Act to clean up
areas that 20, 30, 40 years
ago seemed like they'd
never recover.
And once we took some
sensible steps, it turns out
that nature was
fairly resilient.
But it required us being
fairly intentional and
really go after the
problem in a serious way.
Sir David Attenborough: It
certainly -- the resilience
of the natural world is
-- gives you great hope, really.
If you give nature half a
chance, it really takes it
and works with it.
But we are throwing
huge problems at it.
The President: Right.
Sir David Attenborough: And
the rising in temperature,
in global temperature is a
very, very serious worry
indeed, it seems to me.
And what concerns me is,
when we're sitting in
Europe, we see what you did
by saying, "We're going to
put a man on the
moon in 10 years."
Supposing you said, "In 10
years, the United States
will organize -- and the
world -- and energize the
world to find a solution,
to find a way of producing
energy with no problems."
That is to say, exploiting
the sunshine to a degree,
and finding ways of storing
electricity, because if you
did that, so much --
problems would be solved.
The President: Well, that's
what we're -- that's what
we're going to
be shooting for.
I mean, we've made
enormous investments.
We doubled our investment
in clean energy here in the
United States; I just last
year came back from China
with an agreement from the
Chinese to work with us on
reducing emissions.
But we're not moving
as fast as we need to.
And the -- part of what I
know from watching your
programs and all the great
work you've done is that,
you know, these ecosystems
are all interconnected, and
that if just one country is
doing the right thing but
other countries are not,
then we're not going to
solve the problem.
We're going to have to have
a global solution to this.
Sir David Attenborough: And
the -- and the solutions are
global; have to be global.
And that has been the huge
encouragement over the past
10 years, that the United
States and indeed China --
two vast, important nations
-- have actually agreed to
take these steps.
That's surely what will
go down in history
as EPOL-making.
But it's -- but the
job is not yet done.
The President: No,
we're far from it.
Not -- but let me -- let
me backtrack for a second.
How did you get interested
in nature and wanting to
record it?
When you think back after
the story of your career,
what is it that led to such
a deep fascination with how
the natural world works?
Sir David Attenborough:
Well, I've never met a child --
The President: Who's
not fascinated?
Sir David Attenborough: --
who's not interested in
natural history.
So the -- I mean, the --
just the simplest thing; a
five-year-old turning over a
stone and seeing a slug and
says, "What a treasure!
How does it live?
What are those
things on the front?"
Kids love it, kids
understand the natural
world, and they're
fascinated by it.
The President: So
you (inaudible).
Sir David Attenborough: So
the question is, how did
you lose it?
How did anyone lose
the fascination?
The President:
(laughs) yeah.
Sir David Attenborough: And
certainly I never lost it --
The President: Yeah.
Sir David Attenborough: --
but if you do lose it, and I
imagine there are lots of
other attractions that can
-- may divert your
attention, you've lost a
very, very great treasure.
The President: They -- at
what point did you decide
that you wanted to make it
your life's work to record it?
Sir David Attenborough: I
don't think I ever dared say
it was a night's work,
because when I -- when I
started, there wasn't
any television.
And all I knew is, I wanted
to try and understand the
way the world works, the
natural world works; it was
a great fascination.
And so I took Zoology
and Natural Sciences
at university.
But then I had to go into
the navy; it was the end of
the war and I was
conscripted into the navy
for a couple of years.
And then I got -- when I
came out, I didn't think I
was cut out to be
a proper scientist.
(laughs) but anyway, I went
into television managed to
-- I was going to say,
manipulate television to
allow me to go and see these
wonderful things, which is
what I've been doing
ever since, pretty well.
The President: When you
think of your favorite trips
or your favorite
discoveries, or places in
the world that you wish you
could take everybody to so
that they could really
appreciate what this
marvelous gift we've got
is, what comes to mind?
Sir David Attenborough:
Well, I think you would
agree with me that the
moment you first dive on a
-- on a coral reef, with
tanks so that you are
weightless, that being
weightless is enough to make
a memorable event for you.
But when you can do it on a
reef, with this multitude of
multicolored organisms, the
like of which you've never
seen before, and you can
just -- with a flick of your
fin, you can go down or you
can go up, and then you can
see these great sharks and
things coming in from the
ocean -- that, surely, has
to be one of the
great sensations.
It's a new world.
The President: Well, the --
you know, going up in Hawaii
-- it was one of the things
that taught me not only to
appreciate nature but also
that you had to care for it.
And because we spend so much
time outside -- and I think
there was part of the native
Hawaiian culture that is
true of many native cultures
-- this sense of needing to
care for the environment
that you're in, that
sometimes we lose when
we live in big cities.
The interesting thing is,
though, my daughters -- I
find Malia and Sasha, whose
-- they're 16 and 13 now.
They're much more
environmentally aware this
generation than I think
some previous generation.
They do not dispute, for
example, the science around
climate change.
They think it's
self-apparent that we've got
a problem and that we should
be doing something about it.
Sir David
Attenborough: Yeah.
Yeah.
I absolutely agree.
Some of the letters I get --
they bring tears to the eyes
--from kids of all ages.
And the young people -- they
care, they know that this is
the world that they're going
to grow up in, they're going
to spend the rest
of their lives in.
But I think it's -- I think
it's more idealistic than that.
They actually believe that
humanity -- human species --
has no right to destroy
and despoil, regardless.
The President: Right.
Sir David Attenborough: They
actually feel that
very powerfully.
The President: They do.
Yeah.
What -- when you think about
four years from now, what
are the - what are the
prospects for this blue
marble that we live on
in the middle of space.
Do you get that we're going
to be able to get ahead of
these problems?
Do you think that -- you
know, with the prospects of
climate change, rising
populations -- that it's
realistic for us to be able
to get a handle on these
issues and reverse
some of the problems?
Or are you more pessimistic?
Sir David Attenborough: I
believe that, if we find
ways of generating and
storing power from renewable
resources, we will make the
problem with oil and coal
and other carbon
problems disappear.
Because, economically, we
will (inaudible) to use
these other methods.
And if we do that, a huge
step will have been taken
towards solving the
problems of the earth.
The President: Well, I think
you're right about that,
that there's got to be an
economic component to this.
I -- you know, my
father was from Kenya.
And I still remember the
first time I went to Masai
Mara, and the Serengeti and
saw the Great Migration.
And it's like going back
into the Garden of Eden when
you see the wildebeest
and zebras, and
you're transported.
But I remember talking to
the rangers out there and,
you know, they're dealing
with issues of poaching and
other problems.
But the principle problem,
initially, that they had was
that the populations around
the parks didn't feel any
economic incentive
to help preserve it.
And when the National Parks
started to work with the
local farmers and saying to
them, "There's ways for you
to do well while still
conserving this great
treasure that we have,"
that's when you
got cooperation.
And I think, all too often,
we pose this as an economic
development versus
environment problem rather
than recognizing that
there's a way of marrying
those two concerns.
Sir David Attenborough: That
indeed is the case, but the
trouble is that, as fast as
you find solutions along
those lines, the
problem grows bigger --
The President: Yeah.
Sir David Attenborough: --
because of the increasing
population in Kenya.
It is very, very
considerable.
And it's very difficult if
you're growing a family and
you want to grow your own
food and so on, and you can
see all that space occupied
by elephants or whatever.
Say, "What about us?"
The President: Right.
Exactly.
And that's --
Sir David Attenborough: And
population's growth is one
of the huge problems.
The President: Yeah.
Well, the -- which is why
we're spending a lot of
time, including working with
my wife around the issues of
girls' education.
Turns out that when young
women are getting proper
schooling and see
opportunity, they're less
likely to have
children early.
Smaller families, population
stabilizes, and so it
actually ends up helping not
only those young women to
succeed and look after their
children, but it also helps
the --
Sir David Attenborough:
(inaudible)
The President: Yeah, yeah,
the environment (inaudible).
Sir David Attenborough: So
this -- so you have to have
a literate, informed
population with medical
understanding of what the
problems are and
what's available.
And then the population
-- the birth rate falls.
It's not the end of the
story, but its falling is a
start for this solution.
The President: Right.
The internet's been a
powerful tool, though, for
this generation, I think,
to become aware of all the
wonders of the world.
You know, when you were
starting off, maybe you'd
get a program on,
once every so often.
Now on your telephone you
can see, you know, glaciers
and the Amazon and --
Sir David Attenborough:
Well, it is an extraordinary
paradox, isn't it?
That the United Nations
tells us that over 50
percent of the human
population on the planet are
urbanized, which means that,
to some degree, they are cut
off from the natural world.
The President: Right.
Sir David Attenborough: And
are, for some people, are
totally cut off.
They don't see a wild
creature from dawn until
dusk, unless it's
a rat or a pigeon.
The President: Right.
Sir David Attenborough: And
yet at the same time mass
media can get -- inform
those people what the
natural world is, and if --
unless they don't understand
-- if they don't understand
about the workings of the
natural world, they won't
take the trouble to protect it.
That's one of the roles that
the media should have of
maintaining a link between
the population and the --
and understanding what goes
on in the natural world.
Because why should they give
up money on taxes, come to
that, to protect the natural
world, unless they actually
care about it?
The President: Right.
The -- have you had a chance
to travel much in the --
through our National Parks
in the United States?
You know, one of my
predecessors, Teddy
Roosevelt, started the
National Parks and what a
legacy that's been.
Sir David
Attenborough: Yeah.
I mean -- United States was
the model for the world, in
Yosemite and so on, and the
founding of those great
National Parks.
Yes indeed have I traveled
there, and boy, what a
wonderful time
one has there.
And great lodges and great
tracks, and the space!
Still, it doesn't matter how
-- all these visitors come
and yet you can still be
alone up there in the Yukon
or wherever.
The President: It's one of
the great, I think, secrets
of the United States; it is
how big it is, and there are
big chunks of it that
are still undisturbed.
And when you fly over the
country, you're reminded
about what a blessing it is.
There aren't many places
with such low density, where
you can just walk for miles.
Sir David Attenborough:
Well, to have in your own
country the Okefenokee Swamp
down there and the Glasses
of Alaska up there, and the
Yosemite and the Rockies
over there -- oh, gosh.
The President: Yeah, well,
that's part of the reason
why what we've been doing is
trying to initiate ways to
get more children and young
people to use the parks.
And, as you said, so many of
these kids are growing up
cut off.
They're sitting on the
couch, they're playing
video games.
If they experience nature,
it's through a
television screen.
And just getting them out
there so that they're
picking up that rock
and finding that slug.
They're seeing that bird
with colors that --
Sir David Attenborough:
And they all need a bit
of self-reliance.
I mean, it's very, very
difficult, if you've never
been outside, to find
yourself in a forest.
I mean, I've been humiliated
enough in the Amazon forest
and losing myself in that.
I mean, and you really
do feel an idiot.
The local people, tribes
people, look at you, and you
think, "You're lost!
Where were you brought up?"
(laughs) the answer's
not in the forest.
The President: Yeah.
Sir David Attenborough: But
kids can learn, and they
love it when they do.
The President: And if you
were to think about how we
could raise awareness,
because you've been a great
educator as well as a great
naturalist, how do you --
how do you think we can
reach the public around
these issues?
Not only to make them aware
of the dangers of an issue
like climate change, but
also to feel a sense of
agency and capacity
to change it?
Another way of asking this
is, maybe, what do you think
are some of the most
stubborn misconceptions
about nature that lead us
not always to get out in
front of these problems?
Sir David Attenborough: I
think only unfamiliarity.
And I don't see how you can
hope to take somebody else
to spend the first 16 years
of his life surrounded by
bricks and mortar, and then
suddenly put him in the
middle of the rainforest and
expect him to find his way
or know how to live, or
indeed how to survive and
find food.
So I'm not sure that that is
absolutely necessary anyway.
I think what is required is
an understanding and a gut
feeling that you understand
that the natural world is
part of your inheritance.
It is -- this is the planet
on which we live; it's the
only one we've got.
And we've got to protect it.
And people do feel that
deeply and instinctively,
and it is after all -- the
natural world is where you
go in moments of celebration
and moments of grief.
It is the greatest prop
and stay to humanity's own
feeling for himself,
itself, herself, ourselves.
The President: Well, you
know, if you think about,
you know -- in all the
world's religions, you know,
when you're seeking wisdom,
you're seeking to hear God,
you're in the desert or you
go to great waters or you go
up to great mountain peaks.
You know, recapturing that
sense of wonder and the
amazement of the natural
world and its powers.
You know, that's what speaks
to what's deepest in us.
And, you know, the -- what's
critically important to
making sure that we're
passing that onto future
generations -- you and I,
we've been blessed to be
able to see it and
experience it and be moved
by it.
And I want to make sure
that my daughters and their
children are experiencing
that same thing.
