[ APPLAUSE ]
[ APPLAUSE ]
>>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.
WELCOME TO THE SHOW.ERYONE.
WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
IM MEGYN KELLY.
WE BEGIN TODAY WITH THE QUESTION
WE BEGIN TODAY WITH THE QUESTION
OF WHETHER TRANSGENDER HIGH
OF WHETHER TRANSGENDER HIGH
SCHOOL GIRLS SHOULD BE ALLOWED
SCHOOL GIRLS SHOULD BE ALLOWED
TO RACE ON HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS
TRACK TEAMS.IGH SCHOOL GIRLS
TRACK TEAMS.
IT IS HAPPENING IN VARIOUS
IT IS HAPPENING IN VARIOUS
STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY,
STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY,
INCLUDING CONNECTICUT, WHERE TWO
INCLUDING CONNECTICUT, WHERE TWO
TRANSGENDER GIRLS ARE BURNING UP
TRANSGENDER GIRLS ARE BURNING UP
THE TRACK, WINNING A LOT OF
THE TRACK, WINNING A LOT OF
RACES.
RACES.
AND SOME PARENTS ARE
COMPLAINING, SAYING ITS NOT A
COMPLAINING, SAYING ITS NOT A
LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AND THEY
LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AND THEY
WANT A STATEWIDE CHANGE IN THE
WANT A STATEWIDE CHANGE IN THE
RULES.
RULES.
FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER
HEADLINES MAKING THE ROUNDS
HEADLINES MAKING THE ROUNDS
TODAY, JOINING ME NOW, NBCS
TODAY, JOINING ME NOW, NBCS
CRAIG MELVIN, CYNTHIA McFADDEN
CRAIG MELVIN, CYNTHIA McFADDEN
AND AMY HOLMES IS HERE, AS WELL,
AND AMY HOLMES IS HERE, AS WELL,
HOST OF PBS "IN PRINCIPLE."
HOST OF PBS "IN PRINCIPLE."
GOOD MORNING.
GOOD MORNING.
HI, THERE.
>> GOOD MORNING.
>> GOOD MORNING.
HOW ARE YOU?
HOW ARE YOU?
>> GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.
>> GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WERE
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WERE
DEALING WITH AS A COUNTRY, AS A
DEALING WITH AS A COUNTRY, AS A
SOCIETY, AS WE SEE MORE AND MORE
SOCIETY, AS WE SEE MORE AND MORE
STUDENTS IDENTIFYING, OPENLY
STUDENTS IDENTIFYING, OPENLY
IDENTIFYING, AS TRANSGENDER.
IDENTIFYING, AS TRANSGENDER.
GIRLS OR TRANSGENDER BOYS.
GIRLS OR TRANSGENDER BOYS.
TO CLEAR UP THE TERMINOLOGY, IF
TO CLEAR UP THE TERMINOLOGY, IF
YOURE A TRANSGENDER GIRL, IT
YOURE A TRANSGENDER GIRL, IT
MEANS YOURE ASSIGNED MALE AT
MEANS YOURE ASSIGNED MALE AT
BIRTH.
BIRTH.
PEOPLE SAY BORN A BOY.
PEOPLE SAY BORN A BOY.
THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY
PREFERS ASSIGNED MALE AT BIRTH.
PREFERS ASSIGNED MALE AT BIRTH.
THESE ARE KIDS THAT WERE RAISED
THESE ARE KIDS THAT WERE RAISED
AS BOYS AND IDENTIFIED AS GIRLS
AS BOYS AND IDENTIFIED AS GIRLS
AND HAVE DECIDED TO EMBRACE
AND HAVE DECIDED TO EMBRACE
THAT.
THAT.
AND THEY ARE TRANSGENDER GIRLS.
TRANSGENDER GIRL.SGENDER GIRLS.
TRANSGENDER GIRL.
GIRLS RACING IN TRACK.
GIRLS RACING IN TRACK.
ON THE GIRLS TEAM.
ON THE GIRLS TEAM.
AND WINNING.
AND WINNING.
IN CONNECTICUT, THESE PARENTS
IN CONNECTICUT, THESE PARENTS
HAVE SAID, ITS NOT FAIR.
HAVE SAID, ITS NOT FAIR.
THEY THINK THEY HAVE AN
THEY THINK THEY HAVE AN
ADVANTAGE, A PHYSICAL ADVANTAGE,
ADVANTAGE, A PHYSICAL ADVANTAGE,
ITS CALLED SIS GENDER.
ITS CALLED SIS GENDER.
IF YOURE A SIS GENDER GIRL, YOU
IF YOURE A SIS GENDER GIRL, YOU
WERE BORN A GIRL, YOU IDENTIFY
WERE BORN A GIRL, YOU IDENTIFY
AS GIRL, YOUVE BEEN A GIRL THE
AS GIRL, YOUVE BEEN A GIRL THE
WHOLE TIME.
WHOLE TIME.
EVERYBODY AGREES YOURE A GIRL.
EVERYBODY AGREES YOURE A GIRL.
ITS ALWAYS DICEY.
ITS ALWAYS DICEY.
YOU DONT WANT TO OFFEND ANYBODY
YOU DONT WANT TO OFFEND ANYBODY
BUT I THINK IVE GOTTEN IT
BUT I THINK IVE GOTTEN IT
RIGHT.
RIGHT.
SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> IT IS UNFAIR.THINK?
>> IT IS UNFAIR.
AND IN FAIRNESS, THATS WHY WE
AND IN FAIRNESS, THATS WHY WE
HAVE GENDER-SEGREGATED SPORTS.
HAVE GENDER-SEGREGATED SPORTS.
IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS
IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS
BIOLOGICALLY MALE TRANSITIONING
BIOLOGICALLY MALE TRANSITIONING
AND RUNNING AGAINST GIRLS, THERE
AND RUNNING AGAINST GIRLS, THERE
IS A PHYSICAL ADVANTAGE.
IS A PHYSICAL ADVANTAGE.
THERES A TESTOSTERONE
THERES A TESTOSTERONE
ADVANTAGE.
ADVANTAGE.
AND IN THIS CASE, THESE TWO
STUDENTS, TRANSGENDER GIRLS,
STUDENTS, TRANSGENDER GIRLS,
THEYRE WINNING FIRST AND SECOND
THEYRE WINNING FIRST AND SECOND
IN RACES THAT KNOCKS OUT OTHER
IN RACES THAT KNOCKS OUT OTHER
GIRLS WHO ARE ALSO COMPETING,
GIRLS WHO ARE ALSO COMPETING,
THAT DONT GET TO GO TO STATE,
THAT DONT GET TO GO TO STATE,
THAT MAY NOT HAVE ACCESS TO
THAT MAY NOT HAVE ACCESS TO
SPORTS SCHOLARSHIPS.
SPORTS SCHOLARSHIPS.
I THINK WHEN WERE TALKING ABOUT
I THINK WHEN WERE TALKING ABOUT
CONTESTS OF PHYSICALITY,
CONTESTS OF PHYSICALITY,
ATHLETICISM, THAT THERE ARE REAL
ATHLETICISM, THAT THERE ARE REAL
GENDER DIFFERENCES, BIOLOGICAL
GENDER DIFFERENCES, BIOLOGICAL
GENDER DIFFERENCES, THAT
GENDER DIFFERENCES, THAT
ADVANTAGE MALES OVER FEMALES IN
ADVANTAGE MALES OVER FEMALES IN
CERTAIN CONTEXT.
CERTAIN CONTEXT.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE -- WOULD YOU PUT
ANOTHER EXAMPLE -- WOULD YOU PUT
MICHAEL PHELPS IN THE POOL
MICHAEL PHELPS IN THE POOL
AGAINST KATIE?
AGAINST KATIE?
YOU WOULDNT.
YOU WOULDNT.
THERES A BIOLOGICAL ADVANTAGE
THERE. A BIOLOGICAL ADVANTAGE
THERE.
>> KATIE LAEDECKY WOULD TELL YOU
>> KATIE LAEDECKY WOULD TELL YOU
SHE CAN GIVE MICHAEL PHELPS A
SHE CAN GIVE MICHAEL PHELPS A
RUN.
RUN.
>> MAYBE.
>> BUT IN THIS CONNECTICUT CASE,
>> BUT IN THIS CONNECTICUT CASE,
AS WELL, A MONTH PRIOR, ONE OF
AS WELL, A MONTH PRIOR, ONE OF
THE RACERS WAS RACING AS A BOY.
THE RACERS WAS RACING AS A BOY.
>> ON THE BOYS TEAM.
>> ON THE BOYS TEAM.
>> IT MAY HAVE BEEN TWO MONTHS,
>> IT MAY HAVE BEEN TWO MONTHS,
NOT MORE THAN THAT.
NOT MORE THAN THAT.
THIS IS A COMPLICATED QUESTION.
THIS IS A COMPLICATED QUESTION.
I DO THINK, AS YOU SAID OFF THE
I DO THINK, AS YOU SAID OFF THE
TOP, THIS IS GOING TO BECOME ONE
TOP, THIS IS GOING TO BECOME ONE
OF THE QUESTIONS OF OUR TIME, AS
OF THE QUESTIONS OF OUR TIME, AS
THIS BECOMES MORE PREVALENT IN
THIS BECOMES MORE PREVALENT IN
SCHOOL DISTRICTS AROUND THIS
SCHOOL DISTRICTS AROUND THIS
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY.
>> I THINK THERES A MYTH OF AN
EVEN PLAYING FIELD. MYTH OF AN
EVEN PLAYING FIELD.
I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE.
I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE.
THERES ALL KINDS OF REASONS
THERES ALL KINDS OF REASONS
THAT PEOPLE HAVE ADVANTAGES.
THAT PEOPLE HAVE ADVANTAGES.
SOMEBODYS PARENTS CAN GIVE THEM
SOMEBODYS PARENTS CAN GIVE THEM
YEAR-ROUND TRAINING.
YEAR-ROUND TRAINING.
SOMEBODY ELSE IS REALLY TALL AND
SOMEBODY ELSE IS REALLY TALL AND
SOMEONE IS REALLY SHORT.
SOMEONE IS REALLY SHORT.
THERES NO SUCH THING AS A LEVEL
THERES NO SUCH THING AS A LEVEL
PLAYING FIELD.
PLAYING FIELD.
YOU ARE THE GENDER YOU IDENTIFY
WITH.RE THE GENDER YOU IDENTIFY
WITH.
THATS THE RULE IN CONNECTICUT.
>> AND EVEN THE FOLKS WHO ARE.
>> AND EVEN THE FOLKS WHO ARE
COMPLAINING HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH
COMPLAINING HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH
THAT.
THAT.
THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE SAYING WE
REJECT TRANSGENDER STUDENTS.WE
REJECT TRANSGENDER STUDENTS.
THEYRE SAYING, WHEN IT COMES TO
THEYRE SAYING, WHEN IT COMES TO
THIS ISSUE, THEY THINK THERES
THIS ISSUE, THEY THINK THERES
AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE.
AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE.
>> I GUESS I WISH WE COULD ALL
>> I GUESS I WISH WE COULD ALL
HAVE THE ATTITUDE OF THE YOUNG
HAVE THE ATTITUDE OF THE YOUNG
WOMAN WHO CAME IN THIRD.
WOMAN WHO CAME IN THIRD.
AND HERES WHAT SHE SAYS.
AND HERES WHAT SHE SAYS.
TO BE HONEST, I THINK ITS GREAT
TO BE HONEST, I THINK ITS GREAT
THEY GET A CHANCE TO COMPETE.
THEY GET A CHANCE TO COMPETE.
AND AS LONG AS THEY ARE HAPPY, I
AND AS LONG AS THEY ARE HAPPY, I
GUESS THERES NOT MUCH I CAN DO.
GUESS THERES NOT MUCH I CAN DO.
SHE CONTINUES, THE RULES ARE THE
SHE CONTINUES, THE RULES ARE THE
RULES.
RULES.
THE ONLY COMPETITION IS THE
THE ONLY COMPETITION IS THE
CLOCK.
CLOCK.
YOU CAN ONLY RUN AS FAST AS YOU
YOU CAN ONLY RUN AS FAST AS YOU
CAN.
CAN.
AND YOU KNOW, I HOPE THAT WERE
GETTING TO LIVE IN A WORLD INE
GETTING TO LIVE IN A WORLD IN
WHICH YOUNG PEOPLE ALL OF US,
WHICH YOUNG PEOPLE ALL OF US,
GET TO ARTICULATE WHO WE FEEL WE
GET TO ARTICULATE WHO WE FEEL WE
ARE.
ARE.
I HAVE COVERED THIS STORY FOR
YEARS. COVERED THIS STORY FOR
YEARS.
>> I DONT THINK WE HAVE TO
REJECT THAT.INK WE HAVE TO
REJECT THAT.
THERES NOT A BINARY CHOICE IF
THERES NOT A BINARY CHOICE IF
YOU ARE CONFLICTED ON THIS
YOU ARE CONFLICTED ON THIS
ISSUE, YOU ARE AGAINST
ISSUE, YOU ARE AGAINST
TRANSGENDER PEOPLE.
TRANSGENDER PEOPLE.
>> NO.
>> NO.
>> AGAINST THEM BEING ABLE TO --
>> AGAINST THEM BEING ABLE TO --
HOLD IT.
HOLD IT.
YOU ARE AGAINST THEM BEING ABLE
YOU ARE AGAINST THEM BEING ABLE
TO COMPETE AS THE GENDER THAT
TO COMPETE AS THE GENDER THAT
THEY IDENTIFY WITH.
THEY IDENTIFY WITH.
>> I THINK THEYRE WRESTLING
WITH HOW TO HANDLE IT SENSITIVE
WITH HOW TO HANDLE IT SENSITIVE
SENSITIVELY TO ALL PEOPLE
SENSITIVELY TO ALL PEOPLE
INVOLVED.
INVOLVED.
>> WELL, THE CONNECTICUT RULES
ARE ESTABLISHED.NECTICUT RULES
ARE ESTABLISHED.
>> I INTERVIEWED A TRANSGENDER
>> I INTERVIEWED A TRANSGENDER
PERSON FOR MY PBS SHOW.
PERSON FOR MY PBS SHOW.
AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE CASE IN
AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE CASE IN
CONNECTICUT.
CONNECTICUT.
SHE SAID SHE THOUGHT IT WAS
SHE SAID SHE THOUGHT IT WAS
UNFAIR, IF THE STUDENT HAS NOT
BEEN TAKING HORMONES.T HAS NOT
BEEN TAKING HORMONES.
>> LETS TALK ABOUT THE
>> LETS TALK ABOUT THE
HORMONES.
HORMONES.
WHAT HAPPENS AT THE NCAA LEVEL,
RIGHT?APPENS AT THE NCAA LEVEL,
RIGHT?
AT THE COLLEGE LEVEL, IS THEY
SAY THAT YOU MALE-TO-FEMALEEY
SAY THAT YOU MALE-TO-FEMALE
TRANSGENDER, YOU NEED TO HAVE
TRANSGENDER, YOU NEED TO HAVE
BEEN DOING HORMONE THERAPY FOR A
BEEN DOING HORMONE THERAPY FOR A
YEAR.
YEAR.
THEY THINK THE TESTOSTERONE
LEVELS NEED TO COME DOWN TO MAKE
LEVELS NEED TO COME DOWN TO MAKE
IT MORE EVEN.
IT MORE EVEN.
A LOT OF TESTOSTERONE, THATS
A LOT OF TESTOSTERONE, THATS
WHERE GUYS GET THE MUSCLES FROM.
WHERE GUYS GET THE MUSCLES FROM.
THATS WHERE YOU GET IT FROM.
THATS WHERE YOU GET IT FROM.
>> AND WEIGHT LIFTING AND
>> AND WEIGHT LIFTING AND
WORKING OUT, OF COURSE.
WORKING OUT, OF COURSE.
>> ANYWAY, THEY THINK ONCE IT
>> ANYWAY, THEY THINK ONCE IT
GETS TO LEVELS THAT MAKE THEM
GETS TO LEVELS THAT MAKE THEM
PHYSICALLY --
PHYSICALLY --
>> IF YOURE A KID, THOSE ARE
>> IF YOURE A KID, THOSE ARE
ADULTS.
ADULTS.
IF YOURE A KID, YOU DONT HAVE
THAT OPTION IN MANY DONT HAVE
THAT OPTION IN MANY
CIRCUMSTANCES.
CIRCUMSTANCES.
IN MANY STATES, YOU CANT BEGIN
IN MANY STATES, YOU CANT BEGIN
THAT UNTIL YOURE OVER 16.
THAT UNTIL YOURE OVER 16.
>> CONNECTICUT MAY BE ONE OF
THEM.NNECTICUT MAY BE ONE OF
THEM.
>> THEY ARE.
>> THEY ARE.
>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE I
>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE I
UNDERSTAND WHAT YOURE SAYING,
UNDERSTAND WHAT YOURE SAYING,
IN TERMS OF EVERYONE BEING AT
IN TERMS OF EVERYONE BEING AT
SOME DISADVANTAGE.
SOME DISADVANTAGE.
ARE YOU SAYING THAT BOYS AND
ARE YOU SAYING THAT BOYS AND
GIRLS, AT THE AGE OF 14 OR 15,
ARE THE SAME PHYSICALLY?OR 15,
ARE THE SAME PHYSICALLY?
>> NO.
>> NO.
WHAT IM SAYING, THOUGH, A LOT
WHAT IM SAYING, THOUGH, A LOT
OF DOCTORS SAY THAT SOME BOYS
OF DOCTORS SAY THAT SOME BOYS
MATURE FASTER IN TERMS OF THEIR
MATURE FASTER IN TERMS OF THEIR
PHYSICALITY AND SOME GIRLS
PHYSICALITY AND SOME GIRLS
MATURE FASTER.
MATURE FASTER.
AND IN THE WONDERFUL RESEARCH
AND IN THE WONDERFUL RESEARCH
PACKET PROVIDED BY YOUR
PACKET PROVIDED BY YOUR
PRODUCERS, THERES A LOT OF
PRODUCERS, THERES A LOT OF
REFERENCES, INCLUDING A YALE
REFERENCES, INCLUDING A YALE
PHYSICIAN THAT SAYS ITS JUST A
PHYSICIAN THAT SAYS ITS JUST A
MYTH THAT ALL BOYS ARE STRONGER
MYTH THAT ALL BOYS ARE STRONGER
AND FASTER THAN ALL GIRLS.
AND FASTER THAN ALL GIRLS.
AND TO PROVE THAT, A YOUNG WOMAN
AND TO PROVE THAT, A YOUNG WOMAN
IN CONNECTICUT WON THE 500.
IN CONNECTICUT WON THE 500.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
>> SHE WON THE 500.
>> SHE WON THE 500.
>> GO AHEAD, AMY.
>> I THINK IF WERE TO TAKE THE
>> I THINK IF WERE TO TAKE THE
LOGICAL CONCLUSION, WE SHOULDNT
LOGICAL CONCLUSION, WE SHOULDNT
HAVE GENDER-REGULATED SPORTS.
HAVE GENDER-REGULATED SPORTS.
THERES PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES
THERES PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES
THAT WE SHOULD HAVE LeBRON JAMES
THAT WE SHOULD HAVE LeBRON JAMES
PLAYING IN THE WNBA.
PLAYING IN THE WNBA.
A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY, THAT
A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY, THAT
DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
>> MIGHT WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP IF
>> MIGHT WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP IF
THAT WERE THE CASE.
THAT WERE THE CASE.
>> DONT.
>> DONT.
OH.
>> I DONT THINK THATS WHAT
>> I DONT THINK THATS WHAT
ANYBODY IS SAYING.
ANYBODY IS SAYING.
I THINK THATS AN ABSURD POINT.
I THINK THATS AN ABSURD POINT.
>> YOU ARE WRONG.
>> YOU ARE WRONG.
THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE PUSHING,
THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE PUSHING,
ESPECIALLY TRANSGENDER RIGHTS
ESPECIALLY TRANSGENDER RIGHTS
ADVOCATES, SAYING WE SHOULD GET
ADVOCATES, SAYING WE SHOULD GET
RID OF GENDER ASSIGNMENTS WHEN
RID OF GENDER ASSIGNMENTS WHEN
IT COMES TO SPORTS.
IT COMES TO SPORTS.
AND THERE SHOULD JUST BE A
AND THERE SHOULD JUST BE A
FOOTBALL TEAM.
FOOTBALL TEAM.
>> WERE TALKING --
>> LET ME FINISH.-
>> LET ME FINISH.
THERE SHOULD JUST BE A FOOTBALL
THERE SHOULD JUST BE A FOOTBALL
TEAM.
TEAM.
IT SHOULDNT JUST BE A GUYS
IT SHOULDNT JUST BE A GUYS
FOOTBALL TEAM.
FOOTBALL TEAM.
IT SHOULD BE TRACK.
IT SHOULD BE TRACK.
THE TOP 30 MAKE IT AND THE NEXT
THE TOP 30 MAKE IT AND THE NEXT
30 DONT.
30 DONT.
>> AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY
>> AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY
THATS GOING TO LEAD TO NO MORE
GIRLS ATHLETICS.EAD TO NO MORE
GIRLS ATHLETICS.
>> AND THE WHOLE POINT OF TITLE
>> AND THE WHOLE POINT OF TITLE
IX THAT CREATED THE FEDERAL
IX THAT CREATED THE FEDERAL
REQUIREMENT TO HAVE GIRLS SPORTS
REQUIREMENT TO HAVE GIRLS SPORTS
AND TO RECOGNIZE GIRLS
AND TO RECOGNIZE GIRLS
ATHLETICISM AND COMPETITION IN
ATHLETICISM AND COMPETITION IN
SPORT, WAS TO DO THIS, TO
SPORT, WAS TO DO THIS, TO
RECOGNIZE AND CREATE SPORTS
RECOGNIZE AND CREATE SPORTS
PROGRAMS FOR GIRLS.
PROGRAMS FOR GIRLS.
BEFORE THAT, IT WAS ALL FOR
BEFORE THAT, IT WAS ALL FOR
BOYS.
BOYS.
>> I THINK THAT -- TO ME, ITS A
PROVOCATIVE AND INTERESTINGTS A
PROVOCATIVE AND INTERESTING
CONVERSATION.
CONVERSATION.
MY HOPE RAISING IT ON THE SHOW,
WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATIONSHOW,
WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION
THATS ENLIGHTENED AND KIND AND
THATS ENLIGHTENED AND KIND AND
RESPECTFUL TO EVERYONE INVOLVED,
RESPECTFUL TO EVERYONE INVOLVED,
WITHOUT, YOU KNOW -- I THINK
WITHOUT, YOU KNOW -- I THINK
EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE TOLERANT OF
EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE TOLERANT OF
EACH OTHER TO HAVE THIS TALK.
EACH OTHER TO HAVE THIS TALK.
SOCIETY IS JUST GETTING USED TO
SOCIETY IS JUST GETTING USED TO
THIS AND TRYING, I THINK,
