>> Sreenivasan: IN NORTH KOREA
TODAY, THERE WAS STILL NO SIGN
OF THE COUNTRY'S LEADER, KIM
JONG-UN.
IT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR NORTH
KOREAN LEADERS TO DISAPPEAR FROM
PUBLIC VIEW, SOMETIMES FOR WEEKS
AT A TIME, BUT KIM MISSED A
SIGNIFICANT CEREMONY LAST WEEK.
THAT SPARKED SPECULATION ABOUT
HIS HEALTH.
HIS LAST PUBLIC APPEARANCE WAS
APRIL 11.
ANOTHER MYSTERY: THE SECRETIVE
COUNTRY CONTINUES TO CLAIM THERE
ARE ZERO CASES OF COVID-19
THERE.
JOINING US TODAY FROM
WASHINGTON, D.C., IS JEAN LEE,
DIRECTOR OF THE KOREA PROGRAM AT
THE WILSON CENTER.
LET'S START WITH THE
HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.
HOW EQUIPPED IS NORTH KOREA TO
DEAL WITH SOMETHING LIKE THE
CORONAVIRUS?
>> NORTH KOREA HAS SUCH A
FRAGILE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
YOU KNOW, I VISITED SO MANY
HOSPITALS AND CLINICS DURING MY
YEARS REPORTING THERE.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE HEAT.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE RUNNING WATER.
YOU KNOW, OFTEN THEY JUST HAD
TWO WATER BASINS.
IT WAS LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF A
DIFFERENT CENTURY.
AND SO, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE TALK
ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THE
IMPORTANCE OF HAND-WASHING, THEY
DON'T HAVE SOAP, THEY DON'T HAVE
WATER, THEY DON'T HAVE
ELECTRICITY.
AND CERTAINLY, THE LAST TIME I
WAS THERE WAS IN 2017, SO IT'S
BEEN A COUPLE OF YEARS, BUT EVEN
THE MOST UP-TO-DATE HOSPITALS
WERE LACKING IN ANTIBIOTICS,
LACKING IN BASIC SUPPLIES.
AND THERE WAS ONE CLINIC I WENT
TO WHERE THE DOCTOR TOLD ME THAT
MOST OF THEIR DEATHS WERE FOR
SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS DIARRHEA,
THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE
ABILITY TO STOP DIARRHEA AND
THAT KIDS WOULD DIE BECAUSE THEY
SIMPLY COULDN'T STOP IT.
SO, I JUST THINK ABOUT HOW ILL
EQUIPPED NORTH KOREA IS TO DEAL
WITH A PANDEMIC LIKE
CORONAVIRUS.
>> Sreenivasan: HOW BELIEVABLE
IS IT, THEN, THAT A COUNTRY
ADJACENT TO CHINA WOULD HAVE NO
CASES AT ALL?
>> IT'S VERY HARD TO BELIEVE.
I MEAN, THEY DID TAKE VERY
STRICT MEASURES AND STOPPED MUCH
OF THE TRAFFIC IN AND OUT OF THE
COUNTRY IN JANUARY.
HOWEVER, IT IS THE ONLY COUNTRY
BORDERING CHINA THAT CLAIMS IT
HAS NO CASES.
THE ONLY OTHER COUNTRIES THAT
HAVE CLAIMED THESE CASES-- NO
CASES ARE EITHER PACIFIC ISLAND
COUNTRIES OR COUNTRIES THAT HAVE
A VERY POOR RECORD WHEN IT COMES
TO PROVIDING PROPER INFORMATION.
AND SO, I THINK WE DO HAVE TO
QUESTION WHETHER THIS
INFORMATION IS ACCURATE.
>> Sreenivasan: LET'S TALK A
LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE RUMORS FROM
EARLIER THIS WEEK BECAUSE
THAT'S ALL THEY ARE-- IT'S VERY
HARD TO GET ANY FACT VERIFIED
FROM NORTH KOREA-- BUT HOW IS
KIM JONG-UN'S HEALTH?
>> IT WAS SUCH A FRENZY OF
SPECULATION THIS WEEK, AND, AT
THIS POINT, WE STILL DON'T KNOW.
THE STATE OF THE LEADER'S HEALTH
IS SOMETHING THAT IS A CLOSELY
GUARDED SECRET.
AND CERTAINLY, IF HE IS AS ILL
AS THEY SAY, THAT WOULD BE
SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD KEEP A
CLOSE HOLD ON.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT WE WILL
KNOW FOR QUITE SOME TIME, IF
EVER.
THIS BRINGS ME BACK TO 2008 WHEN
KIM JONG-IL, HIS FATHER, HAD
SUFFERED A STROKE AND WAS IN A
COMA.
IT TOOK SEVERAL WEEKS BEFORE THE
WORLD FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS ILL
AND IN A COMA.
AND THAT WAS SIMPLY BECAUSE HE
DIDN'T TURN UP AT A MAJOR
MILITARY PARADE.
AND SO, IT'S A COUNTRY THAT HAS
SUCH A GOOD HOLD ON THE FLOW OF
INFORMATION.
YOU KNOW, THESE-- THEY ARE
RUMORS AT THIS POINT, BUT, OFTEN
TIME-- OFTENTIMES IN A COUNTRY
LIKE NORTH KOREA WHERE WE HAVE
SO LITTLE ACCESS TO THE
GOVERNMENT, SO LITTLE ACCESS TO
RELIABLE INFORMATION, THERE IS A
KERNEL OF TRUTH IN THESE RUMORS.
AND SO, IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE
NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO.
I THINK IT REFLECTS THE CONCERNS
NOT ONLY INSIDE THE COUNTRY BUT
OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY THAT HIS
HEALTH IS A FACTOR AND THAT IT
COULD LEAD TO A QUESTION OF
STABILITY INSIDE THE COUNTRY.
AND THAT IS SOMETHING--
INSTABILITY IN NORTH KOREA AT
 THIS TIME DURING A PANDEMIC,
WHEN IT HAS BEEN DEVELOPING
NUCLEAR WEAPONS, IS NOT
SOMETHING THAT ANY COUNTRY
WANTS.
>> Sreenivasan: IF IT WAS TRUE
THAT KIM JONG-UN IS GRAVELY ILL
TO THE POINT OF BEING DEAD, HOW
 WOULD WE KNOW?
HOW DOES THE STATE ANNOUNCE
SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
>> THAT IS INFORMATION THAT ONLY
A FEW PEOPLE WOULD BE PRIVY TO.
SO, WE SHOULD BE VERY WARY THAT
ANY OF THE RUMORS OUT THERE ARE
FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE IN A
POSITION TO KNOW.
AND SO, I THINK THAT, HONESTLY,
WE MAY NOT HAVE ANY CONFIRMATION
FOR INFORMATION LIKE THAT, IF
AND WHEN IT HAPPENS, UNTIL NORTH
KOREA RELEASES IT PUBLICLY.
I WAS AT THE NORTH KOREAN
EMBASSY.
THERE WAS NO SIGN THAT ANYTHING
WAS AMISS.
I DO NOT THINK THAT ANYONE
OUTSIDE OF THAT INNER CIRCLE HAS
INFORMATION ABOUT THE STATE OF
HIS HEALTH OR WHETHER HE IS
TRULY DEAD OR ALIVE.
>> Sreenivasan: JEAN LEE,
DIRECTOR OF THE KOREA PROGRAM AT
THE WOODROW WILSON CENTER,
THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
