their attitude is not
presented by establishment propaganda
system
including media and so is pretty striking
the way they works. So one of the forms of
this attack to the population has been sharpling
reducing taxes on the wealthy and the corporations
populations overwhelming, they opposed to them
It's been poll after poll
for four years
that shown people wanted increase taxes on the rich
those polls often are not even reported,
literally
The N.Y.T. for example didn't report
their own poll which show people wanted
taxes on the wealthy and the corporate sector
Take the health system, the U.S. health system
is an international scandal.
It has twice the
pro-capite cost of comparable country with similar outcomes
and the reason is privitized, so it's very inefficent
a lot of burocracy, paper work, big salary
One side or the other. What?
The problem with pubblic health it's common (no, it's not)
the private side, of course, is from the basis.
It is a problem everywhere but in
the U.S. there is scandal not a problem. Again
twice the per capita Cost and poor outcomes. That's
different than the problems
of pubblic health everywhere. What is the pubblic want?
They want a system
like othe countries, this is so, the support is  so high
that, in polls, people,
many people has been asked
is the right to health in the constitution
and large part of population thinks there's in the 
constitution
because since there is so support
institution they figures that something's 
good in the Constitution
it tells you two things the first is how little people
know about what's going on, (not every where)
but also how resistant kind of
social democratic attitude are (a sort of basic attitude)
lived to the mass propaganda system
and in fact that's one reason why people have been
kept in ignorance
they can, if they find out what the reality is
they will not accept it, they've been kept in ignorance
marginalized
again activist need to breakthrought
this
Our feeling is that once we lay down
something or we
translate something very imortant, very heavy
which we can understand
we have
just a small quantity of people reading
the matter and very often is the same people interchanging information
(that's why you have) we trust to be much more than what really are
most of the population continuing bombed
by illusion media
2, 3 times, 20 times (always like this)
the propaganda system
are going to be controlled substantially by power that's
That's kind of a social wall, you can to try to change that
is try to change the law of gravity, 
of course that's gonna be true
but you don't have to stay on the ground
all the time
because gravity says you shoud go down
but you can also jump
and that's exaclty what activism is always about
and there a lot of ways to do it
you take a look at real successful
activism, how does it work
****
go to a poor area
maybe poor immmigrants that don't speak english and start to
try to get them organized to do something simple
like maybe get a traffic light
so children can walk across the street
when they go to school and if people organize
and try to get a traffic light
and if they succeed they can learn:
"we can do something" and you go to something else 
and it goes on
That's what activism and organazing is
It's not sitting somewhere and talking to your friends
I mean, it does involve... getting involved with real
people wherevere those problems are
maybe we are talking to each other maybe about economic system
based
on workers control, maybe
people were thinking about how trying
to figure out to put food on the table, they are worrying about that
far reachin thing like
industry-based on workers control
you don't have to wait for utopia to happen
is already happening in large part of the world
so in the United States
Mexico, Egypt, other
places, There is a
spread of work control
cooperative
other ways of breaking up the economy system like, they can be developed within the present society
in Argentina
is not impossible. It's a war with Argentina
They have all the world against Argentina
they try to do something
They try
Argentina, back in 2000 refused to pay its debts
and the whole world economic professions
say they are going to destroy the world against latin America
region Mexico
on the other hand accepted the US
trade agreement to second lose
words written  in the westerns
country, the press
lies about it, constantly lies about it
Economics professions lies about It
The World Bank lies about it because they
have
to present they believe this support for the
trade agreement celebrate successful
so they just lied
it's been exaclty the opposite effect
again back to what organize can do, alternative media can do
something actually can do
would discussion of these things
appeared in mainstream media
like "the guardian" at least
It certainly happen in Italy
I mean the barriers obviuosly gonna be there
and people with power are not gonna
say "thank you I am gonna give up my power"
they will struggle to keep it
They have plenty (in Italy they say)
What?
In Italy it's different because they misused the words
they say OK, I'll give the power to you 
and they keep going
on without any change.
That's one of the standard
techinques of propaganda but you don't 
have to accept it
any more than you have to accept we do
government
Of blindfool the people or any other propaganda images You don't have to accept the idea
when some western will invade
some
third world country we'll liberating.
okay First of all, thanks a lot again
should be change a topic for a moment going
to a personal
question, I mean nothing so personal of course
Something like.. do you remind in particular error wich allowed you
you to learn from the error itself
you made an error, a mistake and
did you learn from, do you rember, first of all, them new member first
who think that made is there something
so important that you've learned from
that mistake
that the you should say okay there is
something I want to tell you because
I've made such an incredible mistake
that there is something I want to tell you.
All the time.
All the time? In the sciences works all
you find errors on your own works. You correct.
Other people find error, It's standard. it's not even an issue
yeah, of course but there are people try
****
In the political meaning of course, for example
in the early days of the Vietnam War, 
ninteen sixties
when I was giving talks about
involved activism
I misdescribed, I described
that there has a civil war in 
which U.S.
illegitimately intervening. I remember one point
very well, a woman, I don't know if you know her name, Barbara Deming, old and non violent activist
mentioned to me that I was mistaken that
It's not a civil war in which U.S. intervening,
it was an aggression, that's quite different
She was right
I changed, often, referred to that
learn from
reading. Okay I do believe it's normal
or me I do believe it happens sometimes to
make a mistake
Especially for me
I'ts unavailable to make mistake, it doesn't happen
okay
other personal question, What stimulates your
curiosity
today? What are you going to
try to discover going
is there something that you're still trying to
discover something that
really makes up your curiosity?
 who knows you want to
discover at all
something special?
All the time that's what
readings is all about. For example I've just
finished a very important book.
Which I've already mentioned to you without naming it. It's the first
scholarly study which demonstrates
conclusively cubans role in the liberation of South Africa
The one you were talking about before. 
The one I mentioned before
It's even hitten in scholarship but the
breakthrough is there. And now it's important
For us to explain it. was it always me
try to go on
in the professional work it's all the time the major
questions, major language, major mind
human evolution, all kinds of things
I don't know if we have time... but one more question
Okay this is not the program I was
wondering about myself in that the
italian situation
believe the situation. 
Okay supposing
that we are in a situation in which
I consider myself radical from
from the left
and I have to make a vote, Ok, and I can choose from
left radical vote and I know that
this vote will be lost will be lost because of
course there is not enough
amount of voters to go for this part so
it will be lost...so I can decided not to
vote
okay so that's another option or I can vote
for
what we call it the "not so bad party"
something like (yeah, is the not so bad)
I don't know in Italy what they vote
the Proteas is year ago
I was wondering of course actually my
position has always been the same
I'm going to vote for left radical
party even if I know
that will not be counted effectively in
First of all, Italy has a parliamentary
system
Unlike U.S. so it's at least
possible worry
but is at least theoretically
possible for small
radical party to have a parlamentary rappresentation
It happened and that can mean something
it's different in the United States
democratic or repubblican
parliamentary
systems, neverless the same question
rises all the time
In my personal view it's kind of
question take about 10 minutes
of your time and then go back to your things
but in those 10 minutes you have to
say
Ask a question: is the difference between the
main choices sufficient
so that it makes sense to vote against
one of them really not
voting for anybody
Like somebody in the U.S. voted for democratic last election, they
weren't voting for Obama they were ruling
against Romney. It's not just Romney: they represent
different groups, different
segments of private capital
Road
some different constituencies so is that
different
big enough to matter
in my ten minutes which I think about this
I tried to decided that was a difference big enough to matter
then in the two minutes it take to vote do whatever but 
meanwhile the rest of your life goes on
Ok go on the streets and help the people trying to fight
Okay I do believe we are ok.
