JUDY WOODRUFF: President Trump is backing
a plan to overhaul the nation's criminal justice
laws.
If passed, it would be the biggest change
in a generation.
Mr. Trump outlined the new bipartisan agreement
this afternoon at the White House.
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:
The legislation I'm supporting today contains
many significant reforms, including the following.
First, it will provide new incentives for
low-risk inmates to learn the skills they
need to find employment, avoid old habits
and follow the law when they're released from
prison.
In many respects, we're getting very much
tougher on the truly bad criminals, of which,
unfortunately, there are many.
But we're treating people differently for
different crimes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Criminal justice reform has
been an issue that has forged many unlikely
political alliances.
A driving force behind that bipartisanship
is also perhaps an unlikely source, Koch Industries,
A company best known for the Koch Brothers
and their support for conservative causes
and candidates.
Mark Holden is general counsel for Koch Industries.
And he has been a key player behind today's
proposed legislation.
And he joins me now.
Mark Holden, welcome back to the "NewsHour."
MARK HOLDEN, General Counsel, Koch Industries:
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, we heard a little bit just
now from President Trump about what this represents.
What more can you tell us would be the main
difference if this legislation were to pass?
MARK HOLDEN: Well, at the federal level, we
really haven't had a lot of reforms that have
been rehabilitative and redemptive, is what
I would say.
It's scaled back some of the more draconian
parts of our criminal justice system.
So, the First Step Act is what it is called.
And it's focused in first part on prison rehabilitation
programs, so, for people in federal prisons
getting better while they're in prison, not
becoming worse.
So, there will be jobs, skills training, rehabilitation,
drug therapy, those types of things.
And these are evidence-based practices that
have been shown to work in the states to reduce
crime rates and reduce incarceration rates.
All of this has happened in the states, and
now it's working its way to the federal system
as well.
There's also -- that passed through the House
360-59 back in May.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
Right.
MARK HOLDEN: Now, this bill that was announced
today is the Senate version.
And they have added four sentencing provisions
to that, sentence reforms -- sentencing reforms
that we think really need to happen.
JUDY WOODRUFF: That make it -- make it lighter
sentencing, in effect...
MARK HOLDEN: Yes, exactly.
JUDY WOODRUFF: ... for those who have committed
crimes that are not as serious.
MARK HOLDEN: Right.
It's for -- it's targeting low-level nonviolent
offenders.
And they are reforms that will, for example,
expand the drug safety valve.
For people who are low-level drug offenders,
they won't have to go to prison necessarily.
Judges will have more discretion.
There's also -- it ends the three strikes
and you're out life in prison penalty.
There's still stiff mandatory minimums, up
to 25 years, but it does away with the life
imprisonment requirement.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, as we understand it, Mark
Holden, there's been -- there's been real
opposition to this.
There are folks -- in fact, there are folks
on both sides of the issues, folks who think
this is wrong because it's not tough enough,
it's too loose on criminals.
Congress -- rather, Senator Tom Cotton of
Arkansas has been someone who's been opposed
to this.
But, on the left, you have people who argue
we need more reform.
How do you -- what makes you think this is
threading the needle just the right way?
MARK HOLDEN: Well, I think it has enough -- it's
called the First Step Act for a reason.
This is the first step, the first real comprehensive
criminal justice reform measure that hopefully
will make it through the Senate and then to
the president's desk.
The president's endorsement today was huge.
It was very important.
The police organizations, like the Fraternal
Order of Police, who are now on board with
these reforms, that was huge.
They were at the podium with the president
today.
This shows that this is -- it's the right
approach.
It's trying to help people who need a second
chance get a second chance.
It's helping people who are low-level offenders
not have their lives ruined forever for something
that happened on their worst day.
And, again, going back to the experience of
the states, this is all because of what the
states have done in the last 10 years.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
MARK HOLDEN: Like Texas, for example, where
the criminal justice reform revolution began
back in 2007.
Since that time, Texas has closed down eight
prisons.
It saved over $4 billion in taxpayer money.
And, most importantly, they have a crime rate
they haven't seen this low since the 1960s.
So, these reforms make communities safer,
make law enforcement safer, and give people
second chances.
And that's what we should be looking for in
our criminal justice system, so when people
go to prison, it's a one-time occasion, they
get better in prison, rehabilitated, and then
they come out and they're a positive part
of society and their communities.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But even with all these positive
arguments, we noticed today that the Senate
majority leader, Mitch McConnell, when he
was asked about this, made a point of saying,
well, we have got other priorities, we have
to think about funding the government, we
have to think about the farm bill.
He made it sound as if he's not sure this
is a priority for him in the Senate.
And that's going to be key.
MARK HOLDEN: Right.
It is going to be key.
And it's a priority for the president.
And it's a priority for a lot of Republican
senators and Democrat senators.
And we have had meetings with Leader McConnell
where he's told us that there's going to be
a whip count, and he told us directly that
he thinks that the votes are there, and we're
likely going to get the outcome that we want,
which is a vote on this bill on the floor.
So we're hoping that happens.
I think that Congress can do a lot of things
at once.
And the criminal justice reform issues that
we're talking about, the reality is, we need
to do them as soon as possible.
This really isn't that tough an issue anymore
because of what's happened in the states.
They have got this blueprint.
It makes communities safer.
It saves money.
It saves lives.
There's really not a good argument against
it.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So, how convinced are you that
President Trump is prepared to push this?
We know Republican senators, most of them
are going to listen to him.
His son-in-law, Jared Kushner, has been a
big advocate.
You have worked very closely with him.
MARK HOLDEN: Jared has done an amazing job,
yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: But is the president -- I mean,
how far is he prepared to go?
MARK HOLDEN: Well, I don't know if you saw
his speech today.
He was very passionate about it.
And he brought up Alice Johnson and her situation,
Alice Johnson...
JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.
MARK HOLDEN: ... when he commuted her life
sentence, as an example of some of the injustice
in our system.
He's very passionate about these issues, Jared
Kushner is very passionate about the issues.
We have a broad bipartisan coalition that
is very passionate about these issues.
I think that this is going to happen.
And I think the president is going to drive
it.
And we're very supportive of what he's doing.
He's doing a great job on this.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Mark Holden, thank you very
much.
MARK HOLDEN: Thank you.
JUDY WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.
