I hear about the only person around it
doesn't have TV coverage of the face and
then they got the black up now you're
gonna be the one getting a TV picture is
still yet we are getting a TV picture
10
for the next 30 minutes we're going to
take you on a trip to Mars and back
good day I'm amico counter with NASA
public affairs and i'm joined by an
expert in the field of planetary science
Jim Green director of NASA's planetary
division also joining us is NASA
astronaut stand love
nASA has robots and Rovers on the
surface of Mars and is planning on
sending humans there as soon as
technically possible but there are
stepping stones to getting there
conducting valuable scientific research
and returning home safely
what we've learned up to this point has
been invaluable in providing the initial
exploration steps to one day sending
astronauts to Mars and Jim is here to
discuss the next steps and help answer
the questions of what a crew might
experience on the Martian surface
what kind of samples could be returned
that will provide scientific value and
also determine how crews could use
natural resources to live off the land
for short and eventual long-term stays
on the red planet and no stranger to
spaceflight astronauts and love also
joins us in the discussion of what it
takes to live in space but we consider
long durations right now but will be
considered short one day as human
missions become longer and distance from
Earth become greater so I understand we
have had a few Mars rovers out there
roaming the land since the cash back in
the nineteen nineties correct correct
so what can you tell us what have we
learned so far
well the rover's really provide
invaluable information about various
regions of their Rome because it's so
you get up-close-and-personal you can
really look at the rock structures you
can really see much more about the
mineralogy and their elemental
composition and that's incredibly
important not only does it tell us about
the history of Mars but allows us to
think about how we can use the the
resources that are trapped in the rocks
of for supporting humans as as we might
need to when we go there
ok and so for you stand at being an
astronaut what is this whole journey to
Mars mean to you
so it's the ultimate goal for human
exploration and furthest thing out that
we can think of for the next 30 years 40
years there are other destinations in
the solar system that we could send
people to but most of them are even
harsher and more difficult to reach the
Mars Mars is a whole world it's as big
as a major continent on Earth and it
basically unexplored we have photographs
from orbit we have a few kilometers
worth over driving that be wonderful to
send humans there and see what we can
see with our own eyes
so what are some of your questions for
Jim going here being an astronaut and
thinking about that harsh environment
what other things that you would have to
ask him
well the things that will have to solve
before we can send people to Mars
include what's the radiation environment
like down on the surface we already know
what sort of temperatures we have to
protect our people and systems against
how prevalent are the dust storms and
especially how how bad is that dust to
deal with on a on a personal level we
understand that it can have effects on
solar panels so for using solar panel
power on the surface of Mars you don't
want your power station to get covered
with dust and not produce power anymore
we're interested to know if the
chemistry of the rocks and dust are
somehow dangerous to people are used to
living with rocks and dust here on earth
and it's usually not a big problem but
if the chemistry on Mars is different
enough we come back into our habitat
with dust all over our suits is that
connect give people allergies or poison
them all good stuff to know and then of
course most of our activities on the
surface of Mars are probably going to be
related to geological science when we
send crews there we will send some
pilots and engineers were also going to
send some geologists and planetary
scientists and be interested to know
what tasks they'll be doing down there
on the surface we actually understand
the radiation environment reasonably
well and what we find that since we've
been measuring in space the down on the
surface it's about as half as much as it
is in space so the atmosphere doesn't
really provide an extensive amount of
protection the reason why it's half as
much is because the planet is protecting
you from from half of the half of the
sky in terms of other resources the dust
is a problem although it may not be as
big a problem as we thought we Mars is
very dusty through the whole planet and
in fact that sometimes and there are
certain seasons in particular where
global dust storms may may exist but the
dust actually is fairly not thick but
then in the sense that dust storms can
actually reach a very high altitude and
really provide an OPEC of view of your
of your horizon and in the Sun so it it
they block out a lot of the light still
get into everything and we'll have to
watch how to how to manage and
manipulate that but it's probably not as
big a problem
something something that we'd be able to
manage there are regions on Mars where
there might be some pretty harsh
chemicals that are embedded in the soils
and so you're going to want to
constantly take soil samples
perhaps some before we land in a
particular area we're going to want to
return those samples analyzed them and
know exactly what we're getting into
before we go there so that would be
something important i agree with you
completely
a lot of geology can be done you know
the geology will tell us the history of
Mars we now know that Mars and its past
had extensive amount of water perhaps
oceans certainly rivers lakes
fast-moving water for tens of millions
of years maybe even hundreds of millions
of years and so consequently there's a
fair amount of water still left on Mars
we know that the the atmosphere has
changed significantly
the water is mostly evaporated but it
now looks like a lot of water is
actually seeped into the ground and so
you'll have
some resources available to you you'll
have water resources you'll have a
variety of of minerals and maybe
building materials that you can you can
get access to that will be important in
terms of supporting humans the science
that you'll do will be absolutely
spectacular
you know why Rovers have been on Mars
for many years like Spirit and
Opportunity spirit no longer is
operating but opportunity still is and
curiosity just passed its second year
anniversary and although they made a lot
of measurements and done a lot of things
and traveled many kilometers on Mars
actually humans could have done most of
what they did in a much more rapid
timeframe perhaps a matter of days if
not weeks could have collected the kind
of information they are doing but with
that information is provided us what we
call ground truth
it enables us to then use our orbital
assets and say here's what haematite
looks like here's what the clays and
sulfur look like down on the ground and
here's what it looks like when we map
that from space and then we can look at
the rest of the global resources that
exist on Mars Mars is truly a fantastic
place the vistas are absolutely
unbelievable
there's huge canyons you know like
Valles Marineris if it was on the United
States Valles Marineris would stretch
across the United States from one end to
the other huge shield volcanoes you know
Mount Olympus of a is as big as the
state of Missouri I mean there's just a
tremendous variation and in the in the
land and the geology and and that
provides a lot of exciting opportunities
for the scientists a lot of really
interesting things we're talking about
here first I'd like to go back to you
talked about some of the things about
getting the samples and no we we
gathered a lot back in the days and the
Apollo days when we had the moon rocks
what is it that you hope that we'll be
bringing back in returning Mars rocks
well you know we're still actually
looking at the lunar rocks we have a
variety of fabulous laboratory equipment
that's been developed that allow us to
really
take those rocks apart and understand
the early evolution in and a composition
of the moon and the earth we want to do
the same thing at Mars we want to be
able to obtain samples analyzed them in
our laboratories you know we just can't
build a rover big enough to be able to
take the equipment that we currently
have in our labs now and and that's
essential if we really want to study the
detailed july geology in the geological
history of Mars so can you tell me now
what from those that samples just from
the images along not the actual rocks
what do we know so far just from the
images that we've received from
curiosity and the others
well we're finding out now is Mars has
some fundamental material that is
excreta bleep important it has a in
there in the rocks we find hydrogen
nitrogen oxygen phosphorus and sulfur
those are some of the basic building
blocks of life
it also sees that this material was
deposited over time in rapidly flowing
water and so we can tell that the water
in in millions and billions of years ago
when it existed on Mars was actually
drinkable it wasn't salty at all so it
really looks like back in Mars's early
history based on the chemistry and based
on what we're finding in the rocks that
Mars could have had a number of
habitable environments in it and perhaps
life started on Mars just like it did
here on earth
so is it safe to say that Mars is you we
feel resourceful and effort is to
actually live off the land which i'm
going to turn now to stand and ask you
now that's a long trip how do you think
that we're going to go about what is
what it whether the plants that's that's
two different question how are we going
to get there for the long trip and what
could we use to live off the land how
we're gonna get there is a tough tough
problem we would need a ship about the
size of the international space station
and then we have to accelerate that
clear out of the Earth's gravity well
would have to fly through space for
nine months to arrive at Mars and then
when you get to Mars you can't just
plant the flag and come home the way we
did on the moon the moon is always
circling the Earth you can come home
anytime you want if you land on Mars and
take right back off again try to come
back to the earth you are likely to
arrive at the Earth's distance from the
Sun while the earth is on the other side
of the Sun and then that's not so good
we never come home that so you're sort
of committed to a stay of about one
fourth year or about half a Mars here on
the surface of Mars before you can come
home
all told total trip duration 30 months
so two-and-a-half years then the systems
that will need we're not sure how to
land a 40-ton habitat on Mars remember
you're going to live in this thing for a
year so if you try to live in something
the size of a minivan with your three
buddies for years it's probably not
going to work so well
plus you have to bring all your food or
water all your breathing air in case you
are not able to use the resources that
are there on Mars and that adds up to a
lot of weight right now you can land
something up to a few hundred pounds on
Mars under a parachute with airbags but
if it's bigger than that the atmosphere
is too thin to provide enough
deceleration of parachutes so you have
to go to a rocket stage that actually
slows you down and then lands you gently
on the surface
we're not sure how to do that one of the
things that the space station is
teaching us is that once we've built a
machine and near and dear to the cruise
heart is the life-support systems
machine that takes carbon dioxide out of
the atmosphere for instance you're
always breathing oxygen your breathing
out carbon dioxide once carbon dioxide
gets up to a percent or so of the air
you're breathing or even less it starts
causing headaches you get changes in
your blood chemistry it's not a good
scene we have those machines on the
space station and they're not as
reliable as they as we hoped they would
have been so the crews are always having
to tear them apart put them back
together again using spare parts brought
from Earth
now if you're on your way to Mars or two
and a half years you have to bring all
the spare parts with you or do without
right so that kind of reliability is
something we still need to perfect
we're not there yet as far as living off
the land so Mars has the chemicals of
life
the atmosphere is carbon and oxygen and
nitrogen that's great
oxygen and nitrogen or what we breathe
here but Mars atmosphere is very very
thin it's like being at a hundred
thousand feet altitude on the earth and
you can't live at that altitude they
call above 26,000 feet on earth the
deathstone once you're up there climbers
of high mountains like k to Mount
Everest are their bodies are breaking
down every minute they're above 26,000
feet plus the chemistry of Mars
atmosphere where breathing oxygen it's a
very reactive chemical if we didn't have
plants regenerating our oxygen here on
earth in a few hundred years it would be
gone completely and the atmosphere would
not support human life on Mars does not
have that kind of biosphere creating
oxygen that we can breathe so its
atmosphere is chemically at equilibrium
with the surface it's just carbon
dioxide we can split carbon dioxide up
into carbon and oxygen and make oxygen
but that takes a lot of energy and the
machinery to do it or not sure we can
make to be perfectly reliable we know
there's lots of water on Mars it has
polar caps made out of frozen carbon
dioxide dry ice and water ice and we
know there's a lot of water frozen in
the ground you can dig that up and use
it but again you need digging equipment
that's going to work on Mars essentially
a vacuum at temperatures that can go
down 200 degrees below zero at night and
you know your car doesn't like to start
a hundred degrees below zero so there's
a great deal of technology that we take
sort of take for granted here on earth
mining machinery prod chemical
processing machinery you go up the road
here we live in Houston see all these
amazing huge chemical plants that kind
of chemistry you can do with a the
infrastructure that we have here on
earth
on Mars we have to bring it all with us
so the the near term missions for Mars
that I've seen described our little
hesitant to use what's on Mars not
because it's not there but because
we're not sure we'll have the technology
we need to use it when we get there so
we'd rather bring something with us and
be absolutely sure we can get it and use
it then be depending on something get
there and find out we can get it doesn't
that's not so good
yeah what are you very interesting so
let's talk again now i'm going to just
throw it out there because everyone
wants to know is there life on Mars
I mean we say it's a living planet do we
know are we hoping that maybe we'll find
something what would stand be looking
for if he's out there peace out to
search for life on Mars we don't know if
there's life on Mars or not and also
where we are actually seeking the signs
of life life may have been a in an
environment in its password could have
started and and evolved over a period of
time there's certainly not complex life
there might be microbial life and if
microbial life is there it's going to be
probably under the surface you know when
when uh an environment gets tough life
seems to move into the rocks you know
here on earth planetary science has an
activity of looking for life in the
extremes we go out in the driest deserts
we go down in the deepest minds and
every place we go we do in the fine life
on this planet
it's really remarkable and so Mars may
also have been an environment for which
as the climate change which it did at
some time and it's past in a significant
why losing most of its water and a lot
of its atmosphere than life could have
gone underground so that's a that's a
possible approach for us to take in and
in the next series of missions where we
actually are then more sure that we can
go to an area where there's possible of
conditions habitable areas where we
would look for life but we don't know
that they're there we don't know if
extent like meaning current life is
there now there's also potentially some
past life that may may be found within
the rock rate remnants that we would
want to bring back and
lies we don't know if that's possible or
not so those who approaches but I tell
you what's really exciting is really now
starting on the path of looking for life
on Mars whether it's some extinct
extinct or currently there extent life
and I think we're going to find some
exciting things as we move in that
direction
actually to be honest I never thought
that I would be sitting here talking
about going to Mars and here we are
so it is all very exciting so just tell
me though exactly what are we as far as
going there's a lot that we know when
there's still a lot we don't know where
are we on the the slide rule of getting
to Mars well indeed with our orbiters
and our Rovers we know an extensive
amount about Mars this actually helps
Stan and and the engineers here at JSC
to really do a number of practical
things in terms of another life support
system in terms of where they might go
what they might do and and the resources
that they would need but we're really
just starting that process I think as we
get towards the end of this decade and
certainly into the next decade
we're going to start what we're going to
start using a variety of instruments and
experiments that we put on the surface
of Mars that would extract those
resources now perfect example is Rover
that we're putting together right now
it's designed to be launched in 2020
will sit on Mars and 20 21 and it it has
one instrument that will bring in the
carbon dioxide separate the carbon from
oxygen separate and create the 02
so it's our first major step in being
able to demonstrate that we could
actually do this in a reliable why and
understanding when when it might work
the best you know the huge swings and
temperature on Mars are there is at work
better during the day then the night
what about seasonal differences all
those things we can begin to collect
data and
in and that will really aid the mission
planners and be able to develop those
systems that they can begin to rely on
and do we have a landing site to town
and jet for that 2020 never actually
we're right now in the process of
finding out of where are the best places
for the twenty20 rover to go to we
started out with a hundred sites where
we we took a good look at about 30 of
them now we have about the top nine or
ten of them for which we are requiring
much more data from our orbiting assets
and this data will be used to whittle
that down to the top side over the next
couple years
can you describe what these areas of
interests are all right someone like
well one of the things that we want the
twenty20 rover to do is to core into the
rock and in and then interrogate the
whole look at what's happened over time
in that rock record and then if we find
something really exciting we want to be
able to catch the rock you know put a
little put it in a little sleeve and
stick it in a container for potential
return to Earth where we can analyze it
much more extensively as i mentioned
earlier
yeah so well we want to go to a
geologically diverse site in ancient
site a place that held a lot of water
for long periods of time on Mars a place
where life could have existed if it
started there at that time and so uh
there are many sites on Mars that give
us that exciting opportunity and the the
orbital assets will bring us back that
data to help us make that decision and
said you have any questions for Stan
what do you want it
what do you need to know from him well
what I want to know from him are the
requirements in terms of those sites
that we we would both like to go to it
be great to find of those sites that
humans can live off the land to the
extent of of possible and and that's
only going to I think increase in time
as we begin to do more of those
experiments but also go to really
interesting sites where we can do a lot
of science it's going to be
geologically diverse we're going to want
water resources very close those water
resources not only supporting humans but
but also could tell us a lot about
past-life tell us a lot about the amount
of water that's existed on the planet in
the past so i think is we as we work
more closely together in the future
we'll find those sites that overlap that
are both scientifically rich but also
those that would be really spectacular
for humans to be able to set down put in
a base and explore
I'm so to touch on a on a point that was
made earlier
what do we need to know about Mars
before we can send people there we
already know more about Mars than we did
about the moon when we send astronauts
there so depending on how much risk
you're willing to take we can go and we
know what up for the requirements for
human landing remember that at least at
the first time we send people there
we're probably not going to send a
mining team we are therefore going to be
bringing with us most of what we need
and if we use any local resources from
Mars it'll be resources from the
atmosphere so as long as the landing
site touches the atmosphere which I
think doesn't rule very many of them out
we're good another thing from the human
standpoint of course we're looking for a
place that's relatively safe to land the
view from the rim of the Valles
Marineris maybe the most amazing
spectacle in the solar system but we'd
like to land a few kilometers shy of it
just so that we don't accidentally go
off the edge when we land so safe
landing site atmosphere and beyond that
the people the reason we sent people
into spaces that they're adaptable and
we could probably adapt our mission to
any landing site on mars and again if we
do plan to use resources that are local
to Mars and the first few missions it's
likely to be atmospheric which is good
anywhere so and landing on Mars and
talking about the people you know you
kind of touched on this we need two
people together can you explain first of
all why it is that we want people I
think you touched a little on it
when you talked about the rover and it
took what to use for curiosity to move
from point A to point B word is today
the same distance that may be a human
being could actually do in one day
no correct exactly so can you elaborate
up more on why it's necessary for humans
to go and explore once you start sure
while humans have the ability to make
decisions in the field that's far
quicker than what we can do robotic Lee
right now even though we are on Mars
through our robots there really a
distance away and in the light travel
time from from receiving information
right on a rover and getting it back to
earth before we can even begin to make a
decision can be anywhere from four
minutes to 22 minutes and that's the
flight distance from where Mars is where
the earth is during those time periods
then so we have to make decisions about
what we want to do and then we have to
go back until the rover ok now we want
to do this or not we want to do that and
so they also have a limited dexterity if
you will a human obviously could could
begin to chip away at Iraq see that he
needs a different tool be able to do
that be able to then look at it and then
make a decision I want to keep that or I
don't want to keep that it has the
information i want or it doesn't and and
so the all the dexterity and all the
decision-making real-time decision
making are so far superior than anything
we currently have on Mars it's it's just
a huge step for us you know there's a
great quote that I like to tell people
and this is from the leader of the Mars
rover team or one of the Mars rover
teams who has good reason to emphasize
how good the Rovers are and he says that
one day of Rover operations on the
surface of Mars is one minute of work
for human geologist so I what Jim said
is absolutely right a human in the field
can do much more scan the scene see what
the interesting thing is go take a look
at it and that takes a long time to do
with a robot now there's caveat there
every year the robots get better
every year the people are about the same
so we're sort of in a race and we'll see
by the time we get people there the
robots are likely to be far more capable
I'm not sure they'll be capable as
capable as a human geologist you know in
the 2030s when we're talking about
sending people there but they do get
better each year and that's something to
keep in mind that perhaps if we're
working together side-by-side robots and
humans
I think that's absolutely have how it
has to go I think to be able to support
humans to be able to be in a site and
then take a sample and then stick it in
a rover that's walking alongside of you
and then analyze that and say okay that
soil is ok that it doesn't produce a
carcinogens or something you take back
in the hab there there's just going to
be a variety of equipment and capability
you're just going to want alongside you
and I think having your pet rover is as
I called it sometimes walking along and
being able to provide some detailed
analytical measurements is just going to
make make a world of difference it's
totally fascinating I think that's about
all the time that we have a I really
appreciate you guys coming out and
talking with this you can get more
information going to the website at
www.nasa.gov and it's always continue
and join the conversation on twitter
using the hashtag journey to Mars
appreciate you guys coming out thanks
very much more pleasure
I heard about the only person around it
doesn't have TV coverage to the face and
then he got the black up now you're
gonna do this but in the TV picture is
still yet we are getting a TV picture
now
one all right
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