like let's come up with a really good
foundation and as I again as I said
before I've never had this conversation
because I was always I felt honestly
muffled like I didn't want to rock the
boat too much I was getting a lot of
attention just for the color of my skin
and some people are saying oh why is she
getting it you know I tend to just cover
the color of our skin like we don't see
color why is that a big deal
but it is a big deal actually it is a
big deal because I didn't have someone
that looks like me because I went
through some fish growing up playing in
this board you know I don't think that
you guys had to do that well I'm pretty
sure that you did it so let's just all
understand so we can cut the crap and
not let this happen or at least be aware
of it so if it does we understand what
to do and how to handle it and what to
talk about and how to support each other
this is social justice in women's hockey
a new series of critical conversations
about the role of women's hockey in the
fight against oppression I am your host
Erica Lindsay ayala
tonight we speak to a pair of Boston
College alumna Blake Bolden and Allie
Sundstrom at the professional level
Blake and Allie continue to play hockey
in the professional women's hockey
players association and the National
Women's Hockey League respectively
our conversation is broken into two
parts both of which are available now on
YouTube we thank you for joining us for
social justice in women's hockey we hope
you can learn something from this
conversation with Blake and Allie and
that you are challenged to join the
fight against all forms of oppression
you
what I think though these are difficult
conversations right they're difficult to
have at any point in time but I want to
transition into now thinking of hockey
which has a reputation of and I think
statistically is very white and then now
bringing that to women's hockey where I
don't have to tell you both you know how
we as a society treat women's hockey you
both know that very well and intimately
I'm curious if you think there will ever
be a time where women's hockey can start
taking on some of these conversations
that you two have had in the last
several days well you got people like
you Erika I think that like I said
before this is that everyone's front
door and things are being addressed
pressure is being applied and it is
uncomfortable for some because honestly
I grapple with okay everybody this isn't
a freaking trend here like this isn't
like a cool thing to do to repost like
on my recess let me just repost this
real quick like you really gotta forget
try to understand and do something
whether that is trying to educate
yourself whether that is calling or
texting or signing a petition or even
protesting peacefully because that's
what I believe in but something needs to
be done and it's okay to talk about it
like if if the hockey community
especially the female hockey community
that seemingly is supportive of one
another and we're all trying to make the
come-up let's just let's just scratch
all everything off and like let's just
come up in arms and like let's come up
with a really good foundation and as I
again as I said before I've never had
this conversation because I was always I
felt honestly
muffled like I didn't want to rock the
boat too much I was getting a lot of
attention just for the color of my skin
and some people are saying oh why is she
getting it you know I tend to just cover
the color of our skin like we don't see
color why is that a big deal but it is a
big deal actually it is a big deal
because I didn't have someone that looks
like me because I went through some fish
growing up playing in this for female I
don't think that you guys had to do that
well I'm pretty sure that you did it so
let's just all understand so we can cut
the crap and not let this happen or at
least be aware of it so if it does we
understand what to do and how to handle
it and what to talk about and how to
support each other so I hope that the
conversations happen in women's hockey
because I don't know I mean Saraya is
that how you say her name
Sariah oh so Roy thinker Roy a tinkerer
I mean she is just like and I'm like go
ahead girls your age I couldn't do that
because it wasn't time it wasn't the
right move I didn't have the support
people would have been like this crazy
angry black woman you know and that's
such that statement right there is just
so disheartening to hear like that angry
black woman that that shouldn't be this
situation you know I I am very aware
that I will absolutely never fully
understand
what you've gone through and what anyone
in our black community goes through but
I absolutely want to change that
conversation and have it be something
that isn't a booth and you know I look
back on obviously I played with Blake
and I played with a handful of other
black teammates and you know it was
always my goal to make it as inclusive
as possible but it I didn't know if it
was something that I wanted to be called
attention to exactly like you said like
like I didn't want attention just
because of the color of my skin and
that's kind of how I treated it but now
I think
in a respectful way it actually should
be brought up more often and and not in
a way of like look here or you know
anything like that but I think it should
be addressed and say you know what are
you experiencing and how can we make
that experience better
you know people especially on social
media can can be ruthless and they make
comments and you see even with people
making statements and whatnot there's
there's always a divide and and that's
so disheartening to see like this
shouldn't be an issue that we're divided
on you know fair treatment of every
single human being shouldn't be
something that we are divided on but I
think recognizing that that still occurs
in a respectful way we should be talking
about it to ensure that we as teammates
are aware and are making certain that we
are creating an environment that that
isn't commonplace yeah I I really
appreciate you Ali you know reacting to
what Blake is saying and I think in some
of the the research that I've done or
conversations I should say that I've had
I mean that's that's the gap that I'm
not sure where the sport or we're
honestly society goes from there between
you know people who are marginalized in
a particular way feeling that they have
to always speak about that or only known
for that and kind of carry the torch for
those types of conversations but then
how do we also empower athletes in a
hockey space to win a Sirois attacker
tweets what she did including the
resources that she offered when you know
Aniki Malou talks about his experience
you know how do we then empower the
hockey community the women's hockey
community to activate even if it's just
to support or to ask questions and to
have a deeper understanding and that's
difficult again going back to difficult
conversations there's some there's
someone that's going to have to step up
to facilitate that and I think it
doesn't necessary
really have to be in this case it
doesn't have to necessarily be ally or
it doesn't
in your case necessarily have to be
Blake but we have to think about you
know what are we offering the sport so
how many times have you two been called
role models because of what you can do
you know with a hockey puck or what you
can stop other people from doing with a
hockey puck and you're cancelling how
many times have you been called a role
model of Pioneer because you happen to
be at this moment in history where you
were the first but now what does that
mean I mean I don't know I want to
really ask you you know do you feel a
responsibility to extend that the title
now of role model to things beyond the
ice yeah um a hundred percent I remember
I was in a hotel in the cwl so this was
six years ago
and I was it was my first year out of
college so I was a rookie and you know
first black person drafted first round
that was like the first first for me I
was like okay this is cool and I'm young
I'm 22 and I'm thinking about okay what
does that mean how do I handle that? And
little girls of color with their parents
of color coming to me asking me for
autographs above you know let's say any
other Olympian that you know how to
accomplish way more than me at that
point I was like wait hold up like this
is bigger than me and I have tried to
carry myself in a respectful manner to
where people felt that they could look
up to me or they could come to me or
they could ask me questions creating my
mentorship program specifically I have a
lot of girls that are brown and black
that I feel like are my baby sisters and
it's emotional for me really because
I have never been in this situation you
know like I'm just taking it one foot at
a time and outside of playing hockey is
what what do I do next
you know how do I spread this so there
is dive more diversity and inclusion
within our sport and that's kind of what
I'm trying to figure out right now
with different committees and flying all
over the place giving talks and you know
just figuring out that space because
it's new and kind of unchartered for me
at least and we just need more people to
support it and not think it's like oh
well that's the black section like we
don't we don't include that with like
the real stuff that's going on that's
just like the black people let's just
check off that black box it's like no
let's just let's keep it all equal for
you yeah I mean been doing over the
years
you know she was a freshman too now is
incredible I couldn't be prouder and you
know all of the work that she has done
to bring more awareness of the sport to
the black community and create that
inclusive group is incredible but I
think exactly right like it's it can't
just be a box that's off to the side it
has to be the whole picture and you know
I've been thinking about this over the
last you know well I have I've thought
about it on many other levels you know
there's a program in Minnesota called
the Dynamite's that isn't inclusively
black but it's it's inner-city kids and
there is a lot of diversity in that
group but it's how do we take that and
amplify it and how do we make it bigger
and what is it that we do and you know
it's a really unique question and
something that I would love to you know
work together on or figure out how we
can create that because Blake's right
right now it's it's a subsection and we
don't need subsections here we don't
need subsections in hockey we need
everybody to be on the same page
one thing kind of a little bit of a
tangent but you know we brought up the
key he was reading his article there
were a lot of things that really
resonated with me because you know 20
years ago not to completely age myself
but I grew up again in an inner city in
Saint Paul and we didn't have girls
hockey girls hockey was like not even a
thing at that point there were a couple
in the suburbs and whatnot but it
generally wasn't well known wasn't all
that well received and so I played all
boys and some of his experiences are
very similar to what I had in that
instance where I remember you know I'd
played with these boys for five years
and it was the first day of checking and
I got absolutely lit up out of nowhere
by one of my teammates because he didn't
want me there and this was his
opportunity to respectfully show me that
and you know the out-of-town tournaments
that they all make plans to go do
something and wouldn't tell me and there
were just so many things in like the
locker room you know things that went on
there and hey let's Locker box alley and
it's like why am I the only one and then
I just get the crap beat out of me and
that was just something that continually
happened and at the time people were
actually advocating for girls hockey so
I had a support piece in the background
because it wasn't seen like right now
you know we're talking about this
subsection there was a bigger movement
that had people encouraging me to
continue and to do it and I think that's
the piece that's missing right now and
to bring that to full circle I think we
can see that rise just like you know
what girls hockey wasn't accepted but
there was a movement behind it to bring
that inclusion into the sport I think
that's the type of movement that we need
to get on this side of it to take it
from this box and bring it into the
whole picture Wow
first I mean that's really heavy to hear
and and you know now I'm kind of putting
myself into this conversation you know
I've spoken to I know how many women
hockey players and you hear little
things but for you to really break that
down for me Ally that you reading that
clears Trivium piece you could relate
that to your own experience I mean that
really just that did something to me
just now and I think that's really
powerful I think you're absolutely right
that there has to be you know a push to
bring things you know so that it's it's
you're talking about black hockey
players you're talking about
multicultural players there is such a
great native and indigenous community
that plays hockey you're talking about
those athletes as well and including
them in the greater hockey community and
I had my you know hockey is for everyone
flags behind me happy pride everyone
we're recording this on on June 1st I
think it's interesting and I mean that
in the truest sense of the term
interesting you know to see that sport
in general and hockey being one of those
areas has been able to find ways to you
know some people would argue slowly ramp
up support for the LGBTQ community and
that there are still ways though that
the sport can do better in supporting
multicultural and ethnic backgrounds in
the sport and you know again not really
a question right now more of a statement
but there are examples examples exist
and now it's just a matter of doing a
little bit more of what you just did for
me Holly is making those connections
unfortunately your connection was the
negative side of hockey but what are the
positives how can we bring that out and
I think like a great thing about your
story is that you are that living
history right you like our walking
history hockey history both of you are
walking hockey history you're also
walking black history and so I think you
get a lot of attention because of that
but I think you know and respectfully I
say this you know you almost have this
the Jackie Robinson or you know Santa
Claus effect where everyone focuses on
Blake Bolden for being the first but
doesn't look at the second the third the
fourth or the first indigenous player
that that I think also needs to change
and there are ways that those of us who
don't identify in any of those areas can
do that right we can we can uplift other
people in other communities um it's
about creating a light ship within
everybody I mean we are not ignorant
like we want more people involved into
our sport know what I mean like that
creates more jobs more money more
opportunity we just need more people and
if we could all understand that it's not
like me against Ali like I'm not trying
to one-up Ali just because I'm black and
I've been pushed down in history it's
like I deserve a little bit of a push
because I was like that's just the way
it is and that matters so let's help
pull everybody up so we're all equal I'm
not trying to take advantage or make
anybody feel lesser then it's not like
that at all so what people come back
with like oh it's like miss me with that
I should let's all be cool and let's
lift each other up
absolutely yeah I feel that
and again the reason both of you honest
you you found a way to do that for each
other you know in this specific example
you know and also like for the record
you know I love doing this Blake cuz why
the heck not so I got my Bolden Jersey
behind me on the chair and I'm
definitely I was definitely one of those
adults not children but I was like
Boston pride whole team sitting down I
was like that's Hillary now I'm good
Briana know you seem cool beelines of
Blake Bolden like
we're on the same page there you don't
the Bibi fanclub influence but but um I
want to now go to we mentioned 13th that
was a resource belief that you offered
to ally I want to think now of all of
the things that we we've spoken about we
really hit a lot as we start to lay in
the play and as they say but thinking
about what's happening in our country
right now you know and that being of
course racial tensions high a lot of
people hurting over their communities
I'm just really feeling unsafe in a lot
of ways what are some things that you
would like to offer for folks who will
watch this as things that brought you
comfort in this time and things that
allowed you to see what is happening in
in a different way and to be supportive
of experiences that you personally have
not and likely will not go through
either way well one thing I'll say is
you know yesterday I spent the day down
in Minneapolis donating supplies and
helping clean up some of the areas and
one thing that really stuck out to me
there is it was really powerful a couple
people that I was with there both of the
black community they made a comment that
they've never seen in this part of town
so many black and white people working
together and I think that you know in
these times where something so
devastating happens and you know
everybody has their initial reactions to
it and we don't know and there's a lot
of things that we don't understand and
you know on both sides and I think that
seeing kind of a little bit of the
aftermath and how people are coming
together and working together and I'm
hopeful that that is something that will
continue and that was a really really
powerful thing to see I mean there's
there's been countless images on all
sorts of social media about the food
drive that they only asked for 85 bags
and it was six semi-truck full and I was
in that line that was about 14 blocks
long and you know at every place that I
stopped
it was just overflowing with resources
and with help and of all colors there
was you know there were black people
they were white people they were Native
people everybody and it was everybody
coming together for a common cause and
and that's essentially in hockey and
everything else what we're trying to
accomplish and you know it's really
disappointing that it has to take a
tragedy like the loss of life and of
George Floyd for that to come together
but it means we can do it and that's
powerful yeah you hit that on the head
just try to do your part
you know and it's so good to hear that
you actually made an action instead of
just sitting back and saying that you're
in anti-racist so making your word into
an action is very important for me I
live in downtown San Diego and yesterday
I got really wild it was a bunch of
helicopters police ambulance I was fine
I love five blocks from like the
protests it was pretty close and I heard
and saw some of the damaged highways
were closed
I couldn't even like leave really I was
imprisoned in my own house basically but
as I sat there and I was like you know
what I'm about to sign every single
petition that I believe in right now and
you know I was talking to my friends not
not you yesterday but my friends were
checking in on me and just being
supportive of one another in just giving
love about because I think through some
some of the greatest things come from a
terrible amount of pain and they take a
while but from the ashes we can create
something new and I truly believe that
that's something that we can do as a
nation and no one can ignore this
because it is here
and it is starting people - that would
not be talking about this to talk about
it and that is the first step and I dig
your five steps Erica I ready go to
Erica's social media watch the five
steps
what was it five step is educate
yourself yeah second step was what build
a team do something do something and
love your neighbors and your friends and
your black people and your colorful
people and just check on I had my LA
Kings supervisor call me just to check
in on me and I was thinking that he was
just gonna follow up on work that I was
doing and he was like you know Blake
I've been thinking about you all week
and I just want you to know that we are
here for you and you know this is a
crazy time but this is were team the
Kings are a team and you're a part of
our team so we got your back wow that's
really veritable yeah I love that and
that is something that we can do and you
know Blake stole my thunder a little bit
but you know I definitely wanna thank
you I definitely do want to make sure
that we do meet anyone who's watching
this or gonna listen to this with some
some things that we all are going to
commit to doing
and so blake mentioned five things that
i had put on instagram but there's
another and i'll link this but there's
this other group better allies that has
a great infographic and I think it's
also five or six steps but essentially
and it all revolve around and this these
are things that both of you have already
said lifting other people up right if
you know that there's someone who is
awesome at gardening and you know
cooking and shout them out right Blake
we're ready for that cookbook so you
know shout them out if there's someone
who's really focused on fitness and
nutrition and make sure you shout those
people out but then also that you can do
that in spaces when social justice is
the order of the day when equity is the
order of the day when it's time to lift
up women we can do that in those faces
as well and we should do that with as it
was said earlier with love and with no
fear because if your heart is in the
right place and how can it be wrong how
can it be wrong it's all good but I'd
like to we'll start with you Ali and
then go to Blake you know what are some
things that you really are committed to
doing given all the experiences that
you've had in the last several days yeah
I mean number one is you know it it
can't just be actions speak louder than
words
yes actions are the primary and are what
they're going to make change but you
know that that silent piece of it is is
really damaging and so I am absolutely
going to be a better better at doing
that and amplifies amplifying the voices
that need to be heard and you know
beyond that like just the really
grassroots level of trying to get into
those communities and and try to create
that inclusion so you know I I signed up
to volunteer with Dynamite's and you
know we've we've coached things with
them in the past as more guest coaches
but I do really want to get deeper there
and and create a space and to create
inclusion and I'll be the first to say
you know I did not think that it was my
place to to be in that that space and
now the realization is coming into that
space makes it it opens that box up and
and hopefully that can that can create
you know that movement that we're all
talking about and creating a place of
inclusion where now you're just a hockey
player and and I don't mean that in in
terms of ignoring the black community or
any people of color or the LGBTQ I don't
mean that at all but I mean I think what
we're striving for is that it's not seen
as an anomaly if this is you play a
sport that we all love and we enjoy and
we have a great time doing it and it's
not something that's unseen it's
creating inclusion into that community
so I'm gonna volunteer with them and see
if there are any other organizations
that that I can be more a part of you
know we do the equity on ice event every
year and that's always really great but
I think there's a lot more that I can
continue to do but the big one is just
still being a voice and amplifying those
around me that deserve to be heard and
they need to be heard yeah and for you
Blake you already mentioned you know
signing petitions and things of that
nature boy what else what else are you
hoping to to challenge or how are you
hoping to challenge yourself keep it
even where we're at when the world right
now yeah I think I've spent the last 20
years trying to figure out a way to fit
into the sport that I love and I
realized that I was different but you
know I as I'm getting older and learning
some more things I'm not as afraid or
I'm not gonna be afraid to stick up for
myself or you know voice my opinion it
doesn't have to be harsh or crude or you
know combative but it just it's real and
it's it's from my heart and you know I
know that we spoke months ago about
microaggressions and the locker room and
inappropriate things being said and you
know I'm trying to do my part but at the
same
time not saying that things are wrong
when things aren't wrong is not doing
enough you know and just not accepting
the crap anymore
Wow yeah that's really powerful thank
you for sharing that
and I'm Lea sure to link to that
interview that we did was able to talk
to a few other people too fortunately
with everything being furloughed at
least for me that story it gets around
we're hoping it does because there are a
lot of great voices in women's hockey
that were able to speak up but Ally bun
storm Blake Bolden thank you so much for
agreeing to be a part of this
conversation and allowing me to
facilitate and ultimately be able to
share this with the hockey community I
think there's so many things that both
of you said that really struck close to
me and I'm hopeful that this will be the
beginning of longer deeper conversations
to truly make Italy's women's hockey for
everyone yeah
thanks Erika I mean you're brave and
I've known you since day one and the end
up and I respect you and I've been very
comfortable coming to you more so than
others just keep being you and
appreciate them voicing your opinions
and just keeping it real it's what's
necessary in this space especially so
you know I am very proud of you for all
the growth that you've done in what four
days yeah I mean like that's crazy to me
truly and and to both of you uh thank
you
obviously so much for having me and for
for listening to you know my sadness
certainly wasn't a let's defend my tweet
or anything like that but but to
understand that that my heart doesn't
have room for hate and that you know
I've loved both of you since I've met
you you know like like ever since
meeting you your freshman year you've
been so important to me and you know I'm
just so proud of everything that you've
accomplished
and what you're continuing to do for the
women's game and you know - Erica ever
since I met you as well you're just a
ray of sunshine and I just love talking
to you and love everything that you're
doing and you know I I do want to be
that research so if you guys see
something that I could help with I want
to be that person and I want to help
drive this message and continue to work
together on this but you know I think
this was a really great first step and
it I'm excited to see hopefully that we
can make a difference thank you both so
much that was great
