AND CONGREGATE THERE.
BUT A FEW PEOPLE HERE, ANDREW, 
SO FAR KEEPING THEIR DISTANCE 
AND BEING HERE TO MARK THE 
MOMENT AND PAY THEIR RESPECTS.
>> Andrew: AND WHAT WE ARE 
LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW FOR VIEWERS
JUST JOINING US, YOU ARE LOOKING
LIVE AT CANADIAN FORCES BASE 
TRENTON IN SOUTHEASTERN ONTARIO.
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU 
WILL JOIN DIGNITARIES, MILITARY 
OFFICIALS AND OF COURSE FAMILIES
AND FRIENDS, ALL PAYING TRIBUTE 
TO SIX CANADIAN MILITARY MEMBERS
KILLED LAST WEEK IN A HELICOPTER
CRASH OFF THE COAST OF GREECE.
IN THIS TIME, AS JACQUELINE WAS 
MENTIONING, OF COVID-19, WE'RE 
EXPECTING A CEREMONY UNLIKE ANY 
WE'VE SEEN BEFORE.
NO TROOPS WILL BE STANDING 
SHOULDER TO SHOULDER.
NO ONE, IN FACT, WILL BE 
STANDING SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, 
EXCEPT PERHAPS FAMILIES AND 
PALLBEARERS CARING THE ONLY 
CASKET FOR SUB-LIEUTENANT 
ABBIGAIL COWBROUGH, AS YOU ARE 
LOOKING AT THE AIRCRAFT AS IT 
APPROACHES THE HANGAR ON THE 
TARMAC OF CFB TRENTON AND THE 
SAD SIGHT OF THOSE HEARSES THAT 
ARE THERE.
HERE ARE THE VICTIMS OF THAT 
CRASH.
THEY ARE, FROM THE TOP LEFT, 
CAPTAIN KEVIN HAGEN, 
SUB-LIEUTENANT COWBROUGH, AND TO
HER RIGHT, CAPTAIN BRENDEN IAN 
MacDONALD.
ON THE BOTTOM LEFT, CAPTAIN 
MAXIME MIRON-MORIN, 
SUB-LIEUTENANT MATTHEW PYKE AND 
MASTER CORPORAL MATTHEW COUSINS.
>> Andrew: AND THAT WAS 
SUB-LIEUTENANT ABBIGAIL 
COWBROUGH PAYING TRIBUTE TO THE 
VICTIMS OF THE NOVA SCOTIA 
SHOOTING, COWBROUGH SHOWED THIS 
VIDEO ON FACEBOOK OF HER 
PERFORMANCE ABOARD THE HMCS 
FREDERICTON ON APRIL 24, ONE 
WEEK BEFORE SHE DIED IN THE 
HELICOPTER CRASH.
THE MILITARY IS CONTINUING ITS 
EFFORTS TO FIND OUT WHY THE 
CYCLONE HELICOPTER CRASHED, AND 
THE CBC'S EVAN DYER IS TRACKING 
THOSE DEVELOPMENTS, AND HE JOINS
US NOW AS WE CONTINUE TO LOOK AT
THE LIVE IMAGES, WE WILL 
CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THE LIVE 
IMAGES.
THIS IS THE SCENE THAT WE ARE 
LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW.
THERE IS IS CANADIAN MILITARY 
AIRCRAFT AS IT GETS READY FOR 
THIS REPATRIATION CEREMONY, AND 
THERE ARE THE SIX HEARSES, AND 
SO, EVAN, WHAT'S THE STATUS OF 
THE INVESTIGATION AT THIS POINT?
>> Reporter: WELL, ANDREW, THE 
NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL OF 
CANADA IS GOING TO EXAMINE THE 
TWO FLIGHT DATA RECORDERS, THAT 
IS TO SAY THE BLACK BOXES, THE 
VOICE RECORDER AND THE 
ELECTRONIC DATA RECORDER, BOTH 
OF WHICH ARE DESIGNED TO DETACH 
FROM THIS HELICOPTER IF IT'S 
INVOLVED IN A CRASH AND FLOAT.
THEY DID.
THEY WERE RETRIEVED AND WILL BE 
EXAMINED HERE IN OTTAWA.
THE HELICOPTER ITSELF, OF 
COURSE, IS IN VERY DEEP WATER.
IT WENT DOWN IN ONE OF THE 
DEEPEST PARTS OF THE 
MEDITERRANEAN, WHICH WILL, OF 
COURSE, COMPLICATE THINGS 
SOMEWHAT.
THE DATA RECORDERS, HOWEVER, 
WOULD CONTAIN INFORMATION, 
INCLUDING ANY CONVERSATIONS 
BETWEEN THE AIRCREW IN THE 
MINUTES LEADING UP TO THE CRASH.
IT WOULD INCLUDE INFORMATION 
ABOUT THE PLANE, THE ALTITUDE 
AND THE DIRECTION IT WAS 
TRAVELLING IN.
THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO TRACK 
INVESTIGATORS THROUGH THOSE 
FLIGHT BOXES WOULD BE ABLE TO 
TRACK THE EXACT FLIGHT PATH OF 
THE AIRCRAFT, INCLUDING HOW IT 
WENT DOWN AND HOW IT HIT THE 
WATER.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION 
TO BE HAD THERE.
BUT GENERALLY INVESTIGATIONS 
INVOLVE A MIX OF DATA RECORDERS 
AND WRECKAGE, AND THE WRECKAGE 
IS REALLY -- BECAUSE OF THE 
DEPTHS OF THAT PART OF THE 
MEDITERRANEAN, THE WRECKAGE IS 
WHERE THE PROBLEM IS.
WE'VE HEARD THOSE WATERS BEING 
DESCRIBED AS ABOUT 3,000 METRES 
DEEP, MILES DEEP, IN OTHER 
WORDS, SO IN OTHER WORDS 
RECOVERING THAT IS GOING TO BE 
QUITE A CHALLENGE.
THE OPERATIONAL PAUSE IS 
DIFFERENT FROM A GROUNDING, BUT 
WE DID HEAR GENERAL JONATHAN 
VANCE SAYING THEY WANT TO MAKE 
SURE THERE'S NOT A FLEET-WIDE 
PROBLEM IN THESE HELICOPTERS 
BEFORE RESUMING OPERATIONS.
THERE HAVE BEEN ISSUES WITH A 
CIVILIAN VERSION OF THIS 
HELICOPTER IN THE PAST, AND OF 
COURSE THERE WAS THAT FAMOUS 
CRASH INVOLVING A SIKORSKY.
THAT INVOLVES A GEARBOX ISSUE, A
GEARBOX RUNNING DRY.
WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S THE 
FOCUS OF THE INVESTIGATION, 
HOWEVER, IN THIS CASE.
BUT STILL WAITING TO HEAR MORE 
DETAILS AS IT GOES ON.
>> Andrew: HERE IS A SIGHT TO BE
SEEN, EVAN, AS WE ARE JUST 
LOOKING AT THIS.
I MEAN, THIS IS JUST -- THERE 
HAVE BEEN A LOT OF TRAGEDIES IN 
THIS COUNTRY, BUT THIS KIND OF 
JUST, YOU KNOW, PUNCTUATES IT, 
IF YOU WILL.
THERE WE CAN SEE MEMBERS OF THE 
CANADIAN ARMED FORCES AS WELL AS
FAMILIES THAT ARE GATHERING 
THERE AS THEY AWAIT FOR THIS 
REPATRIATION CEREMONY TO TAKE 
PLACE, AND AS WE SUSPECTED, THEY
ARE WEARING MASKS BECAUSE OF THE
COVID-19 PANDEMIC THAT IS 
HAPPENING ALL AT THE SAME TIME 
AS THIS, AND WE CAN SEE MEMBERS 
OF THE MILITARY GETTING READY 
FOR THAT REPATRIATION CEREMONY 
THAT IS TAKING PLACE.
EVAN, DO WE KNOW MORE -- OR WHAT
DO WE KNOW IN TERMS OF HOW THIS 
IS GOING TO TAKE PLACE OVER THE 
NEXT HOUR OR SO?
JUST GENERALLY SPEAKING.
>> Reporter: WELL, WE'RE 
EXPECTING TO SEE ONE GROUP OF 
PEOPLE WHO WON'T BE WEARING 
MASKS, AND THAT'S THE 
PALLBEARERS WHO WILL WEAR GLOVES
BUT WON'T BE WEARING MASKS.
THE FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE BEEN 
ASKED TO OBSERVE SOCIAL 
DISTANCING RULES, AND EVERYTHING
APPEARS TO BE SET UP TO KEEP 
PEOPLE FAIRLY DISTANCE FROM ONE 
ANOTHER, AND OF COURSE THE PRIME
MINISTER IS THERE TOO, AND THINK
WE CAN EXPECT HIM TO SPEAK TO 
THE FAMILIES TOO.
>> Andrew: YES, THE PRIME 
MINISTER, JUSTIN TRUDEAU, IS 
THERE IN CFB TRENTON AS WELL AS 
WE SEE MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY 
SETTING UP, JUST GETTING READY 
FOR THIS REPATRIATION CEREMONY 
THAT'S TAKING PLACE.
IT WAS SIX MEMBERS OF THE 
CANADIAN ARMED FORCES THAT WERE 
ON-BOARD THAT CYCLONE HELICOPTER
THAT CRASHED ONE WEEK AGO.
THEY WERE PART OF OPERATION 
REASSURANCE.
HERE THEY ARE AGAIN, AND, EVAN, 
AS WE KNOW, IN THIS CEREMONY 
RIGHT NOW THERE WILL ONLY BE -- 
THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE CASKET.
WE DO KNOW THAT THE MILITARY HAS
SAID THAT THE REMAINS OF ANOTHER
PERSON AMONG THE SIX IS ALSO 
COMING BACK, HAS ARRIVED IN 
CANADA, BUT THEY HAVE NOT 
RELEASED THAT INDIVIDUAL'S 
IDENTITY.
>> Reporter: RIGHT, I THINK THAT
THEY WOULD WANT TO BE ABLE TO 
IDENTIFY THOSE REMAINS OBVIOUSLY
BEFORE GOING AHEAD WITH THIS 
KIND OF CEREMONY, BUT YES, WE DO
UNDERSTAND THE REMAINS OF ONE 
OTHER PERSON HAS BEEN RECOVERED,
AND THIS LOSS, SIX PEOPLE AT 
ONCE, IS THE BIGGEST LOSS FOR 
THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES SINCE 
2007 IN ONE INCIDENT.
THE LAST TIME THAT ANYTHING LIKE
THIS HAPPENED WAS IN COMBAT IN 
AFGHANISTAN, AND IT'S BEEN 13 
YEARS SINCE THE CANADIAN ARMED 
FORCES HAVE SUSTAINED A LOSS 
LIKE THIS IN ONE SINGLE 
INCIDENT.
>> Andrew: UNFORTUNATELY I 
REMEMBER THAT DAY.
I WAS ALSO HERE WHEN THAT NEWS 
CAME IN, AND THAT WAS 
CERTAINLY -- IT WAS AN EASTER 
WEEKEND IN APRIL BACK IN 2007, 
AND THAT WAS A SIGNIFICANT 
MOMENT JUST IN TERMS OF IT BEING
SO VERY DEADLY AS THIS 
HELICOPTER CRASH, THE 
CIRCUMSTANCES OF COURSE WERE 
DIFFERENT IN AFGHANISTAN THAN 
WHAT WE HAVE SEEN HAPPEN IN THE 
IONIAN SEA, BUT THIS IS THE 
SCENE THAT IS TAKING PLACE RIGHT
NOW.
AND, EVAN, I JUST WANTED TO ASK 
YOU, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE 
PRIME MINISTER IS GOING TO BE 
THERE.
DO WE KNOW WHAT KIND OF ROLE HE 
IS GOING TO HAVE IN THIS 
CEREMONY?
IS IT MORE OF SOME -- WE 
CERTAINLY SEE HIM SPEAK EVERY 
DAY ABOUT THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.
LET ME JUST -- LET'S JUST LISTEN
FOR A BIT.
I WANT TO ACTUALLY BRING IN TIM 
DUNN NOW.
HE'S PART OF OUR COVERAGE.
HE IS A RETIRED MAJOR WHO SPENT 
MORE THAN 30 YEARS WITH THE 
CANADIAN ARMED FORCES.
HIS DEPLOYMENTS INCLUDES NATO 
AND UN MISSIONS.
CURRENTLY HE'S A PROFESSOR OF 
COMMUNICATION AT MOUNT 
ST. VINCENT UNIVERSITY, SO, TIM,
WE'RE LOOKING AT THE GUARD 
MARCH.
CAN YOU JUST TELL US A LITTLE 
BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT WE'RE 
WATCHING RIGHT NOW?
>> WELL, I CAN'T SEE IT ON MY 
SCREEN, REGRETTABLY, ANDREW, BUT
WHAT HAPPENS HERE IS THAT, OF 
COURSE, THE PEOPLE ARE BRINGING 
IN THE CASKET AND THEN THE 
HEADDRESSES ON CUSHIONS OUT FROM
THE AIRCRAFT TO BE PUT, TO BE 
PLACED IN THE VEHICLES TO BE 
BROUGHT IN TO TORONTO ALONG THE 
HIGHWAY OF HEROES.
>> Andrew: MM-HM.
AND CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT THIS MOMENT IN TERMS OF, 
YOU KNOW, THE SADNESS, BUT ALSO 
THE IMPORTANCE OF REPATRIATING 
MEMBERS OF THE CANADIAN MILITARY
IN THESE MOMENTS.
>> WELL, REPATRIATION OF REMAINS
IS A REASONABLY MODERN THING.
PRIOR TO 1972, WHEN A SERVICE 
MEMBER DIED OVERSEAS, THE 
REMAINS WERE LEFT OVERSEAS.
IT WAS ONLY IN 1972 THEY CHANGED
THAT AND STARTED BRINGING 
REMAINS BACK HOME.
IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE NOT ONLY 
IS IT IMPORTANT FOR THE FAMILY, 
BUT IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT FOR THE 
PEOPLE THEY SERVED WITH AND 
SERVED ALONGSIDE, AND THE OTHER 
MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY, TO SEE 
THAT THEY ARE BROUGHT HOME AND 
ARE LAID TO REST IN THEIR HOME 
COUNTRY.
>> I'M GOING TO ZOOM IN AND PICK
THEM UP, GUYS.
>> Andrew: AND, TIM, APPRECIATE 
YOU WALKING US THROUGH THIS.
WE'RE JUST GOING TO JUST WATCH 
AND LISTEN.
>> OKAY, THANK YOU.
[ Silence ]
>> Andrew: AND THE CBC'S EVAN 
DYER IS ALSO WATCHING ALONG WITH
US AS WE SEE THE GUARD THERE 
MARCH TOWARDS THE AIRCRAFT, AND 
THEY ARE NOW STANDING, WAITING 
FOR THE REMAINS AND THE SERVICE 
HEADDRESSES OF THOSE SIX 
CANADIAN AIR FORCES MEMBERS TO 
BE REMOVED FROM THE AIRCRAFT.
THIS WILL BE THE MOMENT THAT 
THESE REMAINS AND SERVICE 
HEADDRESSES RETURN TO CANADA FOR
THE FIRST TIME.
OBVIOUSLY A SAD MOMENT, ONCE 
AGAIN, IN THE HISTORY OF THIS 
COUNTRY, AS THIS IS BEING MARKED
AS MEMBERS OF THAT AIRCRAFT WALK
OFF THAT PLANE IN ORDER TO SET 
UP THE CEREMONY THAT IS TAKING 
PLACE.
AND SO, EVAN, JUST TELL US MORE 
ABOUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING AND WHAT
WE'RE EXPECTING TO SEE OVER THE 
NEXT, YOU KNOW, HOUR OR SO.
>> Reporter: WELL, AS WE HEARD, 
THE HEAD GEAR IS GOING TO HAVE 
TO REPRESENT FIVE OF THE SIX 
PEOPLE LOST BECAUSE THEY ONLY 
HAVE FULLY IDENTIFIED REMAINS IN
THE CASE OF SUB-LIEUTENANT 
ABBIGAIL COWBROUGH, BUT WE 
EXPECT TO SEE FOUR AIR FORCE 
HEAD GEAR OR PEAK CAPS AND ONE 
FOR THE NAVY TO REPRESENT THE 
SERVICES THAT THE FIVE OTHER 
MEMBERS WERE INVOLVED WITH.
THEY'LL BE PUT INTO THE HEARSES,
AND I EXPECT THE FAMILIES WILL 
HAVE A CHANCE AT THAT POINT TO 
APPROACH, ALTHOUGH WITH SOCIAL 
DISTANCING RULES IN PLACE, IT'S 
HARD TO SAY WHAT ASPECTS OF THIS
CEREMONY WOULD BE CHANGED FROM 
WHAT WE WOULD NORMALLY SEE.
ONE THAT WE CAN SAY FOR SURE 
THAT WILL BE CHANGING PROBABLY 
IS THE TRIP TO TORONTO BECAUSE 
THE HIGHWAY OF HEROES, WHICH 
USED TO HAVE OVERPASSES LINED 
WITH PEOPLE DURING THE AFGHAN 
WAR, WE MAY SEE SOME PEOPLE 
THERE, BUT WE HAVE HEARD ALREADY
THE PREMIER OF ONTARIO, DOUG 
FORD, ENCOURAGING PEOPLE NOT TO 
COME OUT IN PERSON FOR THIS 
CEREMONY.
FORCES SAYING IF YOU MUST COME 
TO TRENTON, IF YOU WANT TO COME 
TO TRENTON, DO, BUT PLEASE 
REPRESENT SOCIAL DISTANCING, BUT
THE PROVINCE CERTAINLY 
ENCOURAGING PEOPLE NOT TO LINE 
THE HIGHWAYS AS WE USED TO SEE.
IT'S GOING TO BE A CEREMONY 
THAT'S GOING TO BE, LIKE 
EVERYTHING NOW, AFFECTED 
SOMEWHAT BY THE PREVAILING 
PANDEMIC.
BUT THE MILITARY IS TRYING AS 
HARD AS IT CAN TO FOLLOW THE 
NORMAL PROTOCOLS AND SHOW AS 
MUCH RESPECT AS IT ALWAYS DOES 
IN THESE CASES.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE ARE 
JUST HEARING ABOUT HOW 
REPATRIATION CHANGED OVER TIME, 
AND OF COURSE EVERYBODY 
REMEMBERS THAT -- OUR LARGE WAR 
CEMETERIES, THE BIGGEST WAR 
CEMETERIES FROM THE WORLD WARS 
ARE OVER IN EUROPE AND IN HONG 
KONG AND IN VARIOUS OTHER 
THEATRES OF WAR WHERE CANADIAN 
FORCES FOUGHT.
YOU KNOW, THERE IS SORT OF AN 
UNSPOKEN CONTRACT AND ACTUALLY 
NOT SO UNSPOKEN ITSELF, SO 
SOMETHING THAT IS TAUGHT TO 
PEOPLE IN STAFF COLLEGE AND SO 
ON, THAT THE MILITARY -- PART OF
THE CONTRACT WHEN YOU SIGN UP IS
THAT THE MILITARY WILL MAKE AN 
EFFORT TO RECOVER YOUR REMAINS, 
WILL MAKE AN EFFORT TO ENSURE 
THAT YOU'RE BURIED PROPERLY AND 
THAT YOUR GRAVE IS TENDED, AND 
THAT'S BEEN A COMMITMENT THAT 
CANADA'S BEEN TRYING TO KEEP UP 
EVER SINCE THE FIRST WORLD WAR, 
REALLY, AND EVEN BEFORE.
SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS A 
LOT OF SIGNIFICANCE FOR MILITARY
MEMBERS.
IT'S NOT ONLY SORT OF A FINAL 
GOOD-BYE, BUT A FINAL THANK YOU 
TOO AND A CHANCE TO SAY, YOU 
KNOW, THAT THE MILITARY WILL 
MAKE AN EFFORT, EVEN IF IT CAN'T
SAVE ITS MEMBERS, AND IT KNOWS 
IT DOES LEAVE MEMBERS BOTH IN 
TRAINING -- LOSE MEMBERS BOTH IN
TRAINING AND IN COMBAT, IT WILL 
MAKE AN EFFORT TO RECOVER THEM 
AND SEE THEY ARE TREATED 
PROPERLY. 
>> Andrew: AND IT'S SOMETHING WE
HAVE SEEN BEFORE, BUT IT FEELS 
AS THOUGH IT HAS BEEN A WHILE 
SINCE WE HAVE SEEN A 
REPATRIATION CEREMONY LIKE THIS.
IT WAS IN RECENT YEARS MOSTLY 
DURING CANADA'S TIME IN AFGHAN, 
BUT THAT TIME HAS ENDED.
SO THIS IS ANOTHER REPATRIATION 
CEREMONY THAT WILL BE FAMILIAR 
TO CANADIANS, UNFORTUNATELY, BUT
IT IS HAPPENING AGAIN.
THIS TIME IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT 
TIME, AS WE SEE THERE, MEMBERS 
OF THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES 
AWAITING THE CASKET AND THE 
REMAINS OF THE SERVICE 
HEADDRESSES OF THE -- THE HEAD 
GEAR OF THE OTHER MEMBERS TO BE 
REMOVED FROM THAT AIRCRAFT.
WE DID SEE, EVAN, SOME MILITARY 
MEMBERS WALK OFF OF THAT 
AIRCRAFT, AND I AM WONDERING -- 
I'M NOT CERTAIN, I'M JUST 
WONDERING IF THEY ARE FROM HMCS 
FREDERICTON.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER WE KNOW 
THAT OR NOT OR WHETHER WE SHOULD
ASSUME THAT OR NOT, BUT THAT IS 
JUST SOMETHING I'M WONDERING 
ABOUT, AT LEAST.
>> WELL, WE KNOW WHERE THE 
FREDERICTON IS.
THE FREDERICTON HAS DOCKED IN 
THE PORT AT ITALY, AND CERTAINLY
SOME OF THE CREW MEMBERS WE 
BELIEVE ARE BEING INTERVIEWED BY
THE FLIGHT SAFETY INVESTIGATION 
TEAM, WHICH HAS TRAVELLED TO 
TORENTO, BECAUSE SINCE THE CRASH
IT HAS EMERGED THAT THIS 
AIRCRAFT WENT INTO THE OCEAN 
FAIRLY CLOSE TO THE SHIP AND 
THAT THAT WAS WITNESSED BY 
SEVERAL PEOPLE ON DECK, WE 
BELIEVE, AND SO THOSE PEOPLE AND
THEIR WITNESS STATEMENTS NOW 
BECOME PART OF THAT 
INVESTIGATION.
SO CERTAINLY SOME OF THE CREW 
MEMBERS WOULD BE INVOLVED IN 
THAT, IN THE DEBRIEFING ABOUT 
THIS INCIDENT BACK IN TORENTO.
BUT SINCE THE SHIP IS IN PORT IN
ITALY, IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT 
OTHER MEMBERS WERE ABLE TO 
ESCORT SOME OF THEIR SHIPMATES 
BACK HOME. 
>> Andrew: TIM DUNN IS BACK WITH
US NOW, THE RETIRED MAJOR WHO 
HAS BEEN PART OF OUR COVERAGE.
AND SO, MAJOR, TELL US A LITTLE 
BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT 
WE'RE SEEING.
>> WELL, YOU SEE THE RAMP 
CEREMONY WHERE THE -- THE 
REMAINS, THE CASKET AND THE 
HEADDRESSES OF THE PEOPLE WHO 
DIED IN THIS INCIDENT ARE BEING 
REMOVED TO BE PLACED IN THE 
CARS.
THIS VERY -- THIS -- WHEN THIS 
WAS DONE IN AFGHANISTAN, THERE 
WAS A SIMILAR SERVICE DONE AT 
THE AIRFIELD IN KANDAHAR AND 
THEN THE AIRCRAFT BROUGHT THE 
REMAINS BACK TO CANADA WHERE 
THEY WILL BE -- WHERE THEY WERE 
PLACED IN THE VEHICLES, AND NOW 
THESE VEHICLES WILL GO TO 
TORONTO ALONG THE HIGHWAY OF 
HEROES.
>> Andrew: AND, MAJOR, IS THIS A
POIGNANT MOMENT?
BECAUSE WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE 
WAS A CEREMONY THAT TOOK PLACE 
ON-BOARD THE HMCS FREDERICTON AS
IT WAS HEADING TO PORT IN ITALY 
WHERE IT IS NOW DOCKED, AND AS 
EVAN HAS BEEN MENTIONING, THERE 
ARE MEMBERS OF THE HMCS 
FREDERICTON THAT ARE BEING 
INTERVIEWED ABOUT THE CRASH 
BECAUSE IT WAS WITHIN SIGHT OF 
HMCS FREDERICTON, AS THE 
HELICOPTER WAS RETURNING TO THE 
VESSEL.
IS THIS A POIGNANT MOMENT WHEN 
THE PLANE LANDS AND THE REMAINS 
RETURN BACK TO CANADA?
>> IT IS VERY POIGNANT.
ALSO KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS 
THE FIRST TIME THAT THE FAMILIES
WILL BE REUNITED WITH THEIR -- 
WITH THE SERVICE MEMBERS SINCE 
THE ACCIDENT, AND SO -- ONLY ONE
IS PRESENT, BUT THERE ARE 
REPRESENTATIONS OF THE OTHER 
FIVE AS WELL.
AND SO THIS -- IT'S ALSO NORMAL 
IN THESE SITUATIONS FOR THE 
MILITARY TO PROVIDE ESCORTS FOR 
THE REMAINS, AND THAT'S PROBABLY
WHAT YOU'RE SEEING AS WELL, THAT
THESE SERVICEPEOPLE AND THE TOUR
THAT REPRESENTS THEM ARE ALSO 
BEING ESCORTED BY PEOPLE, BY 
THEIR COLLEAGUES FROM THE SHIP.
>> Andrew: AND EVAN, AS WE AWAIT
FOR THIS CEREMONY TO TAKE PLACE,
TELL US MORE ABOUT THE 
INVESTIGATION INTO WHAT 
HAPPENED.
>> WELL, THE CURRENT MOST 
IMPORTANT AVENUES OF 
INVESTIGATION ARE THE FLIGHT 
DATA RECORDERS AND THE 
WITNESSES.
BECAUSE INVESTIGATORS HAVE 
THOSE.
THE WRECKAGE, ON THE OTHER HAND,
IS MUCH MORE OF A PROBLEM 
BECAUSE OF WHERE THIS HELICOPTER
WENT DOWN, IN THE HELLENIC 
TRENCH IN THE IONIAN SEA, THE 
DEEPEST PART OF THE 
MEDITERRANEAN OCEAN.
IF YOU IMAGINE AN INVESTIGATION 
USUALLY HAVING AT LEAST TWO 
ELEMENTS, WRECKAGE AND FLIGHT 
DATA RECORDERS, IN THIS CASE 
THEY ARE MISSING ONE OF THOSE.
BUT THEY DO HAVE WITNESSES WHO 
HAVE ALREADY SPOKEN ABOUT WHAT 
THEY SAW, AND SO THEY ALREADY 
KNOW SOME IMPORTANT DETAILS.
IT APPEARS, FIRST OF ALL, THAT 
THERE WAS NO MAYDAY CALL, WHICH 
IS PROBABLY A SIGNIFICANT FACT, 
AND IT ALSO APPEARS THAT THIS 
HELICOPTER WAS ON AN APPROACH 
BACK TO THE FREDERICTON AND 
QUITE CLOSE TO LANDING WHEN IT 
WENT INTO THE OCEAN.
SO SINCE CREW MEMBERS ON DECK 
SAW IT GO DOWN, IT MIGHT BE 
REASONABLE TO ASSUME OR TO HOPE 
THAT THEY COULD GIVE, SHED SOME 
LIGHT ON HOW IT WENT DOWN, HOW 
IT HIT THE OCEAN.
DID IT APPEAR TO SIMPLY JUST 
TREND INTO THE OCEAN?
DID THE MOTOR APPEAR TO CUT AND 
DID IT CUT?
WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF A VIEW
THEY HAD, HOW MUCH THEY WILL BE 
ABLE TO ILLUMINATE INVESTIGATORS
ON THAT TOPIC, BUT WE DO KNOW 
THAT INVESTIGATORS ARE SPEAKING 
TO CREW MEMBERS IN ITALY, SO 
HOPEFULLY THEY WILL BE ABLE TO 
SHED SOME MORE DETAILS ON IT.
AND ANY ELECTRONIC PART OF THE 
INVESTIGATION WILL TAKE PLACE 
HERE IN OTTAWA AT THE NATIONAL 
RESEARCH COUNCIL.
THAT'S GOING TO INVOLVE THE 
FLIGHT DATA RECORDER AND THE 
VOICE RECORDER, AND IT'S GOING 
TO BE THAT JIGSAW PUZZLE OF 
TRYING TO ASSEMBLE THE WITNESS 
STATEMENTS WITH THE ELECTRONIC 
DATA AND WHATEVER PIECES OF 
WRECKAGE WERE RECOVERED, AND WE 
KNOW THAT SOME DEBRIS WAS 
RECOVERED FROM WHAT WAS 
CONSIDERED A PRETTY WIDE DEBRIS 
FIELD IN THE MEDITERRANEAN THAT 
WAS A VERY INTENSIVE SEARCH THAT
BEGAN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE SHIP
HIT THE WATER, AND IT INVOLVED 
SHIPS NOT ONLY THE FREDERICTON 
BUT SHIPS OF THE ITALIAN AND 
TURKISH NAVIES AS WELL.
SO ALL OF THAT WILL BE PIECED 
TOGETHER AS CAREFULLY AS IT CAN 
BE.
>> Andrew: SORRY TO INTERRUPT, 
EVAN, BUT I JUST WANT TO LET OUR
VIEWERS KNOW, I BELIEVE THAT IS 
THE PRIME MINISTER, AS WELL AS 
OTHER MEMBERS -- YEP, THERE IS 
DEFENCE MINISTER HARJIT SAJJAN, 
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU, 
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THEY ARE 
WEARING MASKS DURING THIS 
COVID-19 PANDEMIC THAT HAS TAKEN
PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY AROUND THE
WORLD RIGHT NOW, BUT WE ARE 
SEEING MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY, 
AS WELL AS THE PRIME MINISTER, 
THE NATIONAL DEFENCE MINISTER, 
AT THIS REPATRIATION CEREMONY 
THAT IS TAKING PLACE AT CFB 
TRENTON, AND THEY ARE WEARING 
MASKS.
A SIGN OF THESE -- OF THESE 
TIMES.
MAJOR, JUST YOUR THOUGHTS ON 
WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.
>> WELL, THE PRESENCE OF THE 
DEFENCE MINISTER, THE PRIME 
MINISTER, THE CHIEF OF THE 
DEFENCE STAFF AND OTHER 
PERSONNEL, OTHER SENIOR 
PERSONNEL OF THE MILITARY, JUST 
INDICATES JUST HOW SERIOUS THIS 
MATTER IS, THAT THE DEATH OF 
SERVICE MEMBERS IN CANADA, THE 
CANADIAN MILITARY, IS OBVIOUSLY 
A SIGNIFICANT EVENT, AND THERE 
IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DIGNITY 
AND CEREMONY THAT GOES WITH 
THEIR REPATRIATION.
AS I SAID BEFORE, THIS IS THE 
FIRST TIME THAT THE FAMILIES 
WILL HAVE BEEN REUNITED WITH 
ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE DECEASED
SINCE THEY LEFT CANADA, AND I 
IMAGINE THAT THIS COULD BE A 
VERY EMOTIONAL MOMENT FOR THEM 
AS WELL.
>> Andrew: AND CAN YOU -- FROM 
WHAT YOU'RE SEEING, MAJOR, DO 
YOU WANT TO HELP ME IDENTIFY -- 
I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE THE 
CHIEF OF THE DEFENCE STAFF THERE
AS WELL?
IT'S HARDER TO RECOGNIZE AND 
IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE 
WEARING MASKS IN THESE MOMENTS, 
BUT OBVIOUSLY WE KNOW THAT THAT 
IS THE PRIME MINISTER, JUSTIN 
TRUDEAU, THE DEFENCE MINISTER 
HARJIT SAJJAN, AND I BELIEVE 
THAT WOULD BE THE CHIEF OF THE 
DEFENCE STAFF.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
AND PROBABLY NEXT TO HIM, TO HIS
LEFT, WILL BE THE CHIEF WARRANT 
OFFICER OF THE CANADIAN FORCES, 
AND I WOULD SUSPECT THAT NEXT TO
HIS LEFT IS THE DEFENCE 
MINISTER.
>> Andrew: SO, EVAN -- EVAN DYER
IS ALSO WATCHING, AND YOU CAN 
JUST WALK US THROUGH WHAT YOU'RE
SEEING, EVAN?
>> I SEE ALSO THE DEPUTY DEFENCE
MINISTER STANDING THERE TOO IN A
BLACK DRESS WITH -- HERSELF WAS 
IN THE NAVY AND I BELIEVE 
MARRIED TO A NAVAL OFFICER AND A
DAUGHTER OF THE NAVAL OFFICER 
AND A LIVING REMINDER THAT THE 
NAVY IS QUITE A SMALL FAMILY IN 
CANADA, AND I BELIEVE WE MAY 
ALSO BE SEEING THE COMMANDER OF 
THE AIR FORCE THERE.
I MEAN, CERTAINLY I WOULD EXPECT
HIM TO BE THERE. 
>> Andrew: AND THAT'S AN 
IMPORTANT POINT, RIGHT, EVAN, 
BECAUSE THIS IS DIFFERENT AREAS 
OF THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES. 
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Andrew: THAT DIED IN THIS 
CRASH.
>> YES.
>> Andrew: AND WE'RE JUST -- WE 
LOST A LITTLE BIT OF EVAN THERE.
I'M SURE WE'LL GET HIM BACK, 
BUT, MAJOR, JUST YOUR THOUGHTS 
ON HOW THIS HAS -- IS IT UNUSUAL
THAT A SINGLE INCIDENT WOULD 
AFFECT DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE 
CANADIAN ARMED FORCES?
>> NO, NOT AT ALL.
WE'VE HAD SIMILAR SITUATIONS IN 
AFGHANISTAN.
CRAIG BLAKE WAS A PETTY OFFICER 
AND A NAVY DIVER, AND HE WAS ONE
OF THE FATALITIES IN AFGHANISTAN
AS WELL, SO THE CANADIAN 
MILITARY OPERATES ON THE BASIS 
OF SHARED EXPERTISE.
SO IT'S A COMBINED EFFORT, AND 
THE SKILLS ARE NOT ALWAYS WITH 
ONE SERVICE OR THE OTHER.
YOU CAN HAVE SITUATIONS WHERE 
THE NAVY OR THE AIR FORCE WILL 
HAVE A PARTICULAR SET OF SKILLS 
THAT ARE REQUIRED BY THE ARMY, 
AND THEN THEY WILL BE ASSIGNED.
THE MILITARY OPERATES ON AN 
UNLIMITED LIABILITY AND 
UNIVERSALITY OF SERVICE.
SO THAT MEANS THAT YOU DON'T -- 
WHETHER YOU'RE IN THE ARMY, NAVY
OR AIR FORCE, IT DOESN'T MEAN 
THAT YOU WILL STAY WITHIN THAT 
SERVICE FOR YOUR WHOLE CAREER, 
OR EVEN THAT YOU WON'T BE 
INVOLVED IN VARIOUS OPERATIONS 
WITH THE ARMY OR THE AIR FORCE 
OR THE NAVY REGARDLESS OF YOUR 
UNIFORM COLOUR.
IF YOU HAVE A SKILL SET THAT'S 
NEEDED, YOU WILL BE CALLED UP TO
PROVIDE THAT SERVICE.
>> Andrew: AND WE ARE JUST -- 
FOR OUR VIEWERS THAT ARE JUST 
JOINING US, WE ARE WATCHING AS 
THE REPATRIATION CEREMONY FOR 
THE SIX MEMBERS OF THE CANADIAN 
ARMED FORCES WHO DIED IN A 
CYCLONE HELICOPTER THAT CRASHED 
IN THE IONIAN SEA AS IT WAS 
APPROACHING THE HMCS FREDERICTON
LAST WEEK IS TAKING PLACE AT CFB
TRENTON IN ONTARIO.
IN ATTENDANCE, THE FAMILY 
MEMBERS AS WELL AS THE MILITARY 
FAMILY OF THOSE THAT HAVE 
FALLEN.
THE PRIME MINISTER, THE DEFENCE 
MINISTER, THE CHIEF OF THE 
DEFENCE STAFF, THE DEPUTY CHIEF 
OF THE DEFENCE STAFF AS WELL AS 
OTHER MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY, 
AS WE WATCH AND WAIT FOR THIS 
REPATRIATION CEREMONY TO TAKE 
PLACE.
MAJOR, HOW DID THE CHALLENGES OF
THIS PANDEMIC AFFECT A CEREMONY 
SUCH AS THIS?
WE CAN SEE THAT THERE IS SOCIAL 
DISTANCING THERE TAKING PLACE ON
THE TARMAC.
A SMALL -- I MEAN, NOT -- I'M 
SURE IT'S NOT SOMETHING OF GREAT
CONCERN.
>> NO, BUT EVERYONE IS 
MAINTAINING A CERTAIN DISTANCE, 
A SAFE DISTANCE FROM EACH OTHER,
AND THOSE THAT AREN'T ARE 
WEARING MASKS.
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE 
SEEN THIS IN MY LIFETIME. 
>> Andrew: MM-HM. 
>> AND SO IT'S JUST AN 
INDICATION OF THE TIMES IN WHICH
WE LIVE.
>> AND THERE'S ONLY ONE BODY 
RECOVERED, THAT OF 
SUB-LIEUTENANT ABBIGAIL 
COWBROUGH.
THE REMAINS OF ONE OTHER PERSON,
AS I'VE BEEN MENTIONING, HAVE 
BEEN RECOVERED, BUT NOT YET 
IDENTIFIED.
SO WHAT HAPPENS IF AND WHEN THE 
REMAINS OF THE OTHERS ARE 
RECOVERED, MAJOR?
>> I REALLY DON'T KNOW.
THIS IS A SERVICE THAT IS 
INTENDED TO REPRESENT ALL SIX 
MEMBERS, THE TWO MEMBERS OF THE 
ROYAL CANADIAN NAVY AND THE FOUR
OF THE ROYAL CANADIAN AIR FORCE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN 
FROM THIS POINT FORWARD IF THE 
OTHERS ARE RECOVERED.
I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED TO SEE 
THIS REPEATED.
>> Andrew: AND WHAT QUESTIONS, 
MAJOR, DO YOU HAVE ABOUT WHAT 
HAPPENED TO THAT CHOPPER?
>> WELL, OF COURSE THE SAME AS 
EVERYBODY HAS.
IT'S A BRAND NEW HELICOPTER.
THIS IS THE FIRST ACCIDENT OF 
ITS KIND WITH -- THE FIRST LOSS 
OF A HELICOPTER.
IT'S BRAND NEW.
IT'S BEEN IN USE IN FREDERICTON 
FOR THE DURATION OF THIS 
DEPLOYMENT, AND SO THAT'S ONE 
ASPECT.
I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD LIKE TO 
KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF 
EQUIPMENT.
IT'S WHAT HAPPENS TO THE FUTURE,
DOWN THE ROAD.
IS THERE A CLASS PROBLEM?
IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH THIS ONE
AIRCRAFT?
WAS IT PILOT ERROR?
WAS IT SOMETHING ELSE?
WE JUST -- THERE ARE A LOT OF 
QUESTION MARKS THERE ABOUT THIS.
WE KNOW THAT IT'S GOT A -- YOU 
KNOW, THE AIRCRAFT IT REPLACED, 
THE SEAKING, HAD OVER HALF A 
MILLION HOURS ON THE FLEET, AND 
SO YOU KNOW, IT'S I THINK QUITE 
A COMMENT ON -- FOR THE PEOPLE 
WHO MAINTAINED THESE AIRCRAFT TO
SEE THEM FLY AS RELIABLY AS THEY
DO, AND TO SEE ONE CRASH AS 
UNEXPECTEDLY LIKE THIS AND WITH 
THE LOSS OF LIFE MEANS THERE'S 
GOING TO BE QUITE AN INTENSIVE 
INVESTIGATION, I EXPECT, AND A 
LOT OF QUESTIONS ASKED AND THERE
WILL BE QUITE A COMPREHENSIVE 
REPORT DONE ABOUT THIS.
>> Andrew: AND, EVAN, YOU WERE 
GIVING US AN UPDATE MOMENTS AGO 
ABOUT THIS STATUS OF THE 
INVESTIGATION.
I BELIEVE THAT YOU SAID THE 
FLIGHT DATA RECORDER IS IN 
OTTAWA.
IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID?
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
YES, BOTH FLIGHT DATA RECORDERS,
BOTH VOICE AND THE COCKPIT DATA,
ARE -- OR INSTRUMENT DATA ARE IN
THE NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL IN
OTTAWA.
AND INDEED, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING
TO BE AN INVESTIGATION THAT HAS 
TO ANSWER PRETTY DIFFICULT 
QUESTION, WHICH IS AS WE JUST 
HEARD OVER HALF A MILLION HOURS 
IN THE FLEET, AND GENERAL VANCE 
SAID THAT THE CYCLONE HAD 9,000 
HOURS WITH THE FLEET.
THAT'S REALLY NOT THAT MUCH WHEN
YOU CONSIDER THE SAFETY RECORD 
OF THE MUCH CRITICIZED SEA KING 
OVER ALL OF THOSE YEARS.
NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN, OF 
COURSE, THAT THERE'S A SYSTEMIC 
PROBLEM OR A FLEET-WIDE PROBLEM.
IT DOESN'T MEAN ANY SUCH PROBLEM
GOING TO BE IDENTIFIED DURING 
THIS OPERATIONAL PAUSE.
IT MAY JUST BE A VERY 
UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENT COMING 
FAIRLY EARLY IN THE LIFE OF THIS
AIRCRAFT.
AND IT MUST BE SAID THAT THE 
MILITARY HAS BEEN HAPPY WITH THE
CYCLONE.
THEY'VE BEEN ACTUALLY MORE THAN 
SATISFIED WITH IT, ACCORDING TO 
GENERAL VANCE.
THEY WAITED A LONG TIME TO GET 
IT.
I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS THE 
STORY OF HOW COMPLICATED AND 
PROBLEMATIC THE PROCUREMENT OF 
THE CYCLONE IS.
AND IT'S -- IT IS THE ONLY 
MILITARY IN THE WORLD THAT IS 
USING THIS HELICOPTER IN A 
MILITARY APPLICATION, THAT I'M 
AWARE OF.
I DON'T THINK THAT ANY OTHER 
MILITARY HAS TAKEN THIS CIVILIAN
SIKORSKY HELICOPTER AND FITTED 
IT OUT FOR MARITIME SURVEILLANCE
ROLE OR A MILITARY ROLE AT ALL.
IT HAS, IT MUST BE SAID, A MIXED
SAFETY RECORD IN CANADA BECAUSE 
THIS IS THE SAME SIKORSKY S92, A
MODIFIED VERSION OF THAT 
HELICOPTER, WHICH WAS INVOLVED 
IN A VERY SERIOUS FATAL CRASH 
OFF THE COAST OF NEWFOUNDLAND IN
2009, BUT THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE 
THAT CAUSED THAT CRASH, WHICH 
WAS THE GEARBOX, THE MAIN 
GEARBOX UNDER THE ROTOR RUNNING 
DRY, WE DON'T NECESSARILY THINK 
THAT THAT WOULD BE THE FOCUS OF 
THE INVESTIGATION AT THIS TIME.
JUST THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE 
CRASH DON'T SEEM TO POINT TO 
THAT SIKORSKY ALSO WAS SUPPOSED 
TO HAVE MADE SOME CHANGES TO 
THAT PARTICULAR PROBLEM THAT 
WOULD MAKE IT LESS LIKELY TO 
REOCCUR.
ALTHOUGH THERE WAS A BACK AND 
FORTH BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF 
CANADA AND SIKORSKY DURING THE 
PROCUREMENT OF THIS NEW 
HELICOPTER IN WHICH THE 
GOVERNMENT DID AGREE TO SOFTEN 
SOME OF ITS REQUIREMENTS.
SO NOT TO SUGGEST THAT THAT IN 
ANY WAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS 
CRASH.
WE JUST DO NOT KNOW THE CAUSE OF
THIS CRASH.
WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT WAS 
MECHANICAL OR NOT.
BUT CERTAINLY PEOPLE ARE GOING 
TO LOOK BACK AT PAST CIVILIAN 
HISTORY WITH THE SIKORSKY 
HELICOPTER.
THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THE 
NEGOTIATIONS OF THE PROCUREMENT 
OF THIS MILITARY VERSION, THE 
CYCLONE, WHAT REQUIREMENTS THE 
GOVERNMENT OF CANADA MADE, WHAT 
REQUIREMENTS THE GOVERNMENT OF 
CANADA THEN DROPPED OR AGREED TO
RENEGOTIATE WITH SIKORSKY, AND 
IF ANY OF THEM MIGHT HAVE PLAYED
A ROLE IN THIS CRASH.
>> Andrew: AND I JUST WANT TO 
LET OUR VIEWERS KNOW, WE KEEP 
SHOWING YOU -- WE KEEP -- WELL, 
WE SHOW YOU THIS SHOT WHERE YOU 
CAN SEE THE PRIME MINISTER THERE
AS WELL AS THE CHIEF OF THE 
DEFENCE STAFF, HARJIT SAJJAN, 
THE NATIONAL DEFENCE MINISTER, 
AS WELL AS OTHER MINISTERS OF 
THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MILITARY 
THAT ARE THERE AS WE AWAIT FOR 
THIS REPATRIATION CEREMONY TO 
BEGIN, AND THEN WE ALSO SHOW YOU
THIS, AND THEN THROUGH THOSE 
DOORS, THAT IS WHERE WE BELIEVE 
THE FAMILIES ARE GOING TO EMERGE
FOR THE CEREMONY TO TAKE PLACE.
THERE ARE HEARSES THERE.
THERE ARE SERVICE HEADDRESSES AS
WELL AS THE CASKET OF 
SUB-LIEUTENANT ABBIGAIL 
COWBROUGH, AND MAJOR, WOULD YOU 
WALK US THROUGH WHAT WE ARE 
EXPECTED TO SEE IN THE NEXT FEW 
MINUTES AS THE FAMILIES ARE 
REUNITED WITH EITHER THE HEAD 
GEAR OR IN THE CASE OF 
SUB-LIEUTENANT ABBIGAIL 
COWBROUGH THE CASKET?
>> WELL, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN 
IS THE FIRST ONE OFF THE 
AIRCRAFT WILL BE SUB-LIEUTENANT 
ABBIGAIL COWBROUGH.
HER CASKET WILL BE BROUGHT OUT 
FIRST, FOLLOWED BY THE HEADDRESS
ON A CUSHION FOR CAPTAIN BRENDEN
MacDONALD FOLLOWED BY CAPTAIN 
KEVIN HAGEN, THEN CAPTAIN MAXIME
MIRON-MORIN, SUB-LIEUTENANT 
MATTHEW PYKE AND MASTER CORPORAL
MATTHEW COUSINS, IN THAT ORDER.
AND THEN THE CASKET AND EACH 
PILLOW WILL BE BROUGHT TO EACH 
OF THE HEARSES, ONE BY ONE, AND 
THE FAMILY MEMBER OF THAT 
PARTICULAR MEMBER WILL BE 
BROUGHT TO THE REAR OF THE 
HEARSE TO PAY THEIR RESPECTS.
>> Andrew: AND MAJOR, WHAT IS 
THIS MOMENT LIKE?
THIS MUST BE A VERY DIFFICULT 
MOMENT FOR FAMILIES.
>> IT WOULD BE.
IT'S ALSO A DIFFICULT MOMENT FOR
THE MILITARY MEMBERS WHO ARE 
THERE TOO.
WE'VE HAD -- WHEN YOU TRAVEL, 
WHEN YOU ARE -- WHEN YOU DEPLOY 
WITH PEOPLE SUCH AS THE NAVY, 
AND MY TIME, WHEN I WAS IN BOSS 
BOSNIA OR IN THE MIDDLE EAST, 
THESE PEOPLE BECOME ANOTHER 
FAMILY FOR YOU.
WHEN YOU SEE A SITUATION LIKE 
THIS, IT BRINGS HOME THE FACT 
THAT WHEN PEOPLE SERVE TOGETHER,
THE RELATIONSHIPS BECOME VERY, 
VERY HARD FORMED, VERY 
IMPORTANT, VERY SIGNIFICANT, AND
THE SEPARATION IN THE SITUATION 
LIKE THIS CAN BE VERY TRAUMATIC 
FOR EVERYBODY.
I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THE PEOPLE 
IN FREDERICTON RIGHT NOW, IN 
HMCS FREDERICTON, ARE FEELING 
VERY, VERY EMOTIONAL ABOUT THIS 
AS WELL.
>> Andrew: ESPECIALLY, MAJOR, AS
EVAN HAS BEEN POINTING OUT, WE 
KNOW THAT THERE WERE MEMBERS ON 
BOARD HMCS FREDERICTON THAT 
WITNESSED, THAT WITNESSED THIS 
CHOPPER GOING DOWN. 
>> THAT WAS A TRAUMATIC 
EXPERIENCE, AND I SUSPECT THAT 
THAT WILL BE A MEMORY THAT WILL 
LIVE WITH THEM FOR THE REST OF 
THEIR LIVES.
>> Andrew: AND EVAN, JUST 
GETTING BACK TO THAT, YOU WERE 
TALKING ABOUT SOME -- THE FACT 
THAT THIS WAS A RELATIVELY NEW 
HELICOPTER, AND THERE WERE ALSO 
CONCERNS, CORRECT ME IF I'M 
WRONG, AROUND -- MAJOR, YOU 
MIGHT WANT TO WEIGH IN ON THIS 
AS WELL.
NOW WE KNOW THAT THIS CRASH WAS 
IN SIGHT OF HMCS FREDERICTON.
IT DID NOT CRASH AS IT WAS 
LANDING, BUT WITHIN SIGHT.
AND THERE WERE CONCERNS, RIGHT, 
AROUND THE MANOEUVRABILITY OF 
THIS CHOPPER ON WHAT IS A 
RELATIVELY SMALL LANDING AREA ON
BOARD THE SHIP.
>> I MEAN, I THINK THAT LANDING 
A HELICOPTER ON THE DECK OF A 
MOVING SHIP IS NEVER GOING TO BE
A SAFE OPERATION.
AND EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN DOING 
THAT JOB IS WELL AWARE OF THAT, 
AND THEY TRAIN VERY INTENSELY TO
BE ABLE TO DO IT AT ALL.
IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE 
RISKIEST JOBS IN THE CANADIAN 
MILITARY, AND IT'S RISKY IN 
PEACE TIME BECAUSE THERE'S NEVER
A SAFE TIME TO LAND ON THE DECK 
OF A MOVING SHIP, AND OF COURSE 
WEATHER CAN ONLY COMPOUND THAT.
THIS IS NOT ONLY A NEW 
HELICOPTER, CH-148 CYCLONE, IT'S
STILL BEING DELIVERED TO THE 
CANADIAN MILITARY.
THEY ARE STILL TAKING DELIVERY 
OF NEW MODELS OF THIS 
HELICOPTER, EVEN THOUGH THE ONES
THEY ALREADY HAVE ARE ON 
OPERATIONAL PAUSE.
CANADA HAS ORDERED, I BELIEVE, 
28 OF THESE HELICOPTERS.
>> Andrew: SORRY TO INTERRUPT, 
EVAN.
MAJOR, MAYBE YOU CAN WALK US 
THROUGH THIS.
THIS IS CLEARLY THE MOMENT WHERE
MEMBERS OF THE FAMILIES OF THOSE
FALLEN, AS WELL AS MILITARY 
MEMBERS, ARE WALKING ON TO THE 
TARMAC.
JUST WALK US THROUGH WHAT'S 
HAPPENING.
>> WELL, THEY ARE BEING WALKED, 
BEING ESCORTED OUT TO THE POINT 
WHERE THEY WILL SEE THE REMAINS 
AND THE HEADDRESS BROUGHT FROM 
THE AIRCRAFT, AND THEY WILL -- 
THEN IN EACH CASE THEY WILL BE 
BROUGHT TO A HEARSE, AND THEN A 
FAMILY MEMBER FOR THAT 
PARTICULAR SERVICE MEMBER WILL 
BE BROUGHT TO THE BACK OF THE 
HEARSE TO PAY THEIR RESPECTS.
THIS IS, I WOULD SAY, AMONG THE 
MOST EMOTIONAL MOMENTS YOU'RE 
GOING TO FIND FOR THE FAMILY 
MEMBERS.
THIS IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING 
WHERE THEY MAY FIND IT DIFFICULT
TO REMAIN CALM, TO REMAIN 
DRY-EYED ABOUT THIS.
THIS IS A TIME WHEN THEY ARE 
REUNITED WITH THEIR LOVED ONES, 
WITH THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS.
>> Andrew: ALL RIGHT, LET'S JUST
GO QUIET AND WATCH FOR A BIT.
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>> JUST PULLING OUT NOW FOR A 
WIDER SHOT AS THE REST OF THE 
GROUP COMES.
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>> Andrew: A SAD AND SOLEMN 
AFTERNOON ON THE TARMAC OF 
C.F.B. TRENTON IN ONTARIO AS WE 
SEE THE FAMILIES OF THOSE 
HONOURING THEIR LOST LOVED ONES 
IN A HELICOPTER CRASH ONE WEEK 
AGO OFF THE COAST OF GREECE.
THEY PAID RESPECT TO THEIR LOST 
LOVED ONES.
SIX MEMBERS OF THE CANADIAN 
ARMED FORCES, MEMBERS OF THE 
AIR FORCE AND NAVY AS WE SEE 
THEM EMERGE THERE FROM THE 
HANGAR.
I WANT TO REINTRODUCE TIM DUNNE 
AS PART OF OUR COVERAGE.
HE IS A RETIRED MAJOR WHO SPENT 
MORE THAN 30 YEARS WITH THE 
CANADIAN ARMED FORCES.
HIS DEPLOYMENTS INCLUDED NATO 
AND A U.N. MISSIONS.
CURRENTLY HE IS A PROFESSOR OF 
COMMUNICATIONS STUDIES AT MOUNT 
ST. VINCENT UNIVERSITY.
MAJOR DUNNE, YOUR REFLECTIONS 
ON WHAT WE SAW TAKE PLACE THIS 
AFTERNOON.
IT IS VERY POIGNANT AS YOU 
POINTED OUT.
AND FOR THREE OF THEM, THAT WAS 
THEIR FIRST DEPLOYMENT SO IT 
MAKES IT EVEN MORE POIGNANT 
WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT THAT WAY.
THREE OF THEM ARE FROM NOVA 
SCOTIA.
SUBLIEUTENANT COWBROUGH IS FROM 
WHERE I LIVE IN DARTMOUTH.
SUBLIEUTENANT PYKE IS FROM 
TRURO AND CAPTAIN MacDONALD IS 
FROM NEW GLASGOW.
SO, THREE OF THEM, HALF OF 
THESE TRAGIC CASES ARE FROM 
NOVA SCOTIA.
BUT IT BRINGS ME BACK TO A MORE 
-- SOMETHING ELSE THAT HAPPENED 
50 YEARS AGO ON OCTOBER 23rd IN 
1969.
HMCS KOOTENAY WAS ON A NAVAL 
EXERCISE OFF COAST OF CAPE 
BRETON WHEN THERE WAS AN 
EXPLOSION IN THE BOILER ROOM 
AND 10 PEOPLE WERE KILLED 
DIRECTLY BY THE EXPLOSION AND 
WITHIN A SHORT TIME, TWO MORE 
DIED FROM SMOKE INHALATION.
IT UNSCORES THE INHERENT RISK 
THAT OUR MILITARY FACE.
THESE SERVICES ARE TERRIBLY 
IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT ALLOW US 
TO SHOW THE FAMILIES AND THE 
REST -- AND THE NATION THAT 
THESE PEOPLE, WHEN THEY RETURN 
TO CANADA, ARE TREATED WITH THE 
DIGNITY, THE HONOUR AND THE 
RESPECT THAT THEY SO RICHLY 
DESERVE.
IF MY 37 YEARS IN THE ARMED 
FORCES I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE 
OF WORKING WITH THE FINEST 
PEOPLE THAT THIS NATION HAS 
PRODUCED.
I HAVE TO SAY, BY ALL ACCOUNTS, 
THESE SIX YOUNG CANADIANS WERE 
AS GOOD AS ANY OF THEIR 
FOREBEARERS AND CANADA WILL BE 
A LESSER PLACE WITHOUT THEM.
>> Andrew: HOW DIFFICULT IS 
THIS CEREMONY FOR FAMILIES?
YOU KNOW, THE MOMENT THAT 
EITHER THE REMAINS OR AT LEAST 
THE -- AT LEAST THEY ARE 
HONOURED.
THE SERVICE HATS OR THE CASKET, 
ONLY ONE CASKET.
WE KNOW THE REMAINS OF ONE 
OTHER AND SO THERE WAS -- THE 
REPATRIATION OF THE SERVICE 
HATS OF THE OTHER MEMBERS.
HOW CHALLENGING IS IT FOR THE 
FAMILIES?
>> I'VE HAD SOME MOMENTS THIS 
AFTERNOON WHEN I WAS HARD 
PRESSED TO KEEP IT TOGETHER AS 
WELL.
THESE ARE VERY EMOTIONAL EVENTS 
AND VERY DIFFICULT -- I THINK 
FOR ANYBODY WHO'S EVER BEEN IN 
THE MILITARY OR RELATED TO 
SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN THE 
MILITARY.
THE FAMILIES HAD FOUND IT 
EXTREMELY PAINFUL THAT I -- -I 
WOULD SUSPECT THAT SOME OF THEM 
HAD SOME VERY DIFFICULT 
MOMENTS, IF NOT ALL OF US HAVE 
HAD SOME DIFFICULT MOMENTS 
DURING THE COURSE OF 
REPATRIATION CEREMONY.
>> Andrew: WE HEARD THE HYMN ON 
THE BAGPIPES "GOING HOME" AS 
EACH MEMBER WAS HONOURED.
THAT IS ONE THAT WE HEAR.
WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THE 
PRIME MINISTER WAS THERE, THE 
GOVERNOR-GENERAL, JULIE PAYETTE 
WAS THERE, THE CHIEF OF THE 
DEFENCE STAFF, GENERAL VANCE 
WAS THERE, AND OTHER OFFICIALS 
WERE ALSO THERE.
BUT OBVIOUSLY THE FOCUS TODAY 
IS ON THE FAMILIES THAT 
GATHERED AND HONOURED THEIR 
LOST LOVED ONES BEHIND.
WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW THESE 
HEARSES THAT ARE ON THE TARMAC 
AT C.F.B. TRENTON.
THE CBC'S EVAN DYER IS ALSO 
WATCHING AND LISTENING WITH US.
JUST YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT WE 
SAW.
>> Reporter: YOU KNOW, IT'S A 
RISK BEING AT SEA, BUT MANY 
PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED AT SEA 
HAVE NOT BEEN RECOVERED.
AND, YOU KNOW, CANADA HAS 
NEARLY 5,000 WAR DEAD FROM THE 
BATTLE OF THE ATLANTIC WHO WENT 
DOWN, SOME OF THEM VERY CLOSES 
TO SHORE HERE IN CANADA.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE HMCS 
ESQUIMALT THAT WAS SUNK AND 
SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON THAT SHIP 
WERE NEVER RECOVER.
ANYONE WHO'S SEEN THE CANADIAN 
WAR CEMETERY KNOWS THAT MANY OF 
THE GRAVES ARE MARKED TO 
UNKNOWN SOLDIERS BECAUSE OF THE 
DIFFICULTIES OF IDENTIFYING 
REMAINS, EVEN ON LAND.
BUT AT SEA, WHEN YOU GO DOWN, 
IT'S -- IT'S OFTEN VERY HIT OR 
MISS WHETHER A PERSON IS GOING 
TO BE RECOVERED.
AND, THEREFORE, YOU DON'T GET 
THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO VISIT 
THE BATTLEFIELD OR PLACE WHERE 
IT HAPPENED, OTHERWISE A 
SHIFTING OCEAN WHERE YOUR 
RELATE CIV AT THE BOTTOM OF 
THAT.
AND THAT HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR 
THE CANADIAN WAR DEAD IN THE 
NAVY FOR MANY, MANY INSTANCES 
THROUGHOUT HISTORY.
INCLUDING 4600 CANADIANS LOST 
IN THE BATTLE OF ATLANTIC.
MANY OF WHOM NEVER RECOVERED.
>> Andrew: AND THEY ARE 
SALUTING AS THE HEARSES DRIVE 
PAST.
LET'S JUST WATCH.
AND NOW, MAJOR DUNNE, THE 
CEREMONY HAS ENDED.
THE REPATRIATION CEREMONY HAS 
ENDED AT C.F.B. TRENTON, BUT 
THE PROCESSION CONTINUES ON 
WHAT HAS BEEN KNOWN NOW FOR 
SOME TIME AS THE HIGHWAY OF 
HEROES.
HIGHWAY 401 THAT LEADS TO 
TORONTO.
TELL US ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS NOW.
>> ALONG THE HIGHWAY OF HEROES, 
THE HIGHWAY WILL BE LINED WITH 
PEOPLE WHO WILL ALSO PAY THEIR 
RESPECTS TO THESE -- TO THESE 
AIR FORCE AND NAVAL PERSONNEL 
AS THEY PASS BY.
I THINK ON THE VICTORIA PARK 
OVERPASS, THAT THERE WILL BE A 
FLAG FOR EACH OF THESE -- A 
PROVINCIAL FLAG FOR EACH OF 
THESE PEOPLE TO REMEMBER THEM 
AS WELL, TO COMMEMORATE THEIR 
SERVICE.
>> Andrew: AND, MAJOR, PICKING 
UP ON WHAT EVAN HAD TO SAY, CAN 
IT BE MORE CHALLENGING WHEN THE 
REMAINS ARE NOT RETURNED?
>> I THINK SO.
WITHOUT A DOUBT.
TO NOT HAVE YOUR FAMILY MEMBER 
TO RETURN HOME, TO BE ABLE TO 
PUT THAT PERSON TO REST CLOSE 
TO HOME, CLOSE TO FAMILY IS 
VERY DIFFICULT.
AND AS I -- I REALLY DON'T KNOW 
HOW TO EXPRESS THE SORROW AND 
THE PAIN THAT THE FAMILIES MUST 
FEEL TO SIMPLY SEE A HEAD DRESS 
IN THE HEARSE WHERE THERE 
SHOULD BE A PERSON.
THAT HAS BEEN PARTICULARLY 
CHALLENGING AND PARTICULARLY 
DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO ACCEPT.
I HOPE ALL THE REMAINS ARE 
RETURNED TO CANADA AND 
RESPECTED AS THEY SHOULD BE.
>> Andrew: AND WE JUST SAW THE 
PRIME MINISTER LEAVE AS WELL AS 
THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL, MINISTER 
OF NATIONAL DEFENCE AND MANY 
OTHERS.
WE CAN ALSO TELL YOU THAT THE 
PRIME MINISTER MET PRIVATELY 
WITH THE FAMILIES BEFORE THE 
TARMAC CEREMONY BEGAN AS WE 
CONTINUE TO WATCH WHAT IS 
TAKING PLACE NOW OFF THE BASE 
AS THEY LEAVE C.P.B. TRENTON IN 
ONTARIO.
AND EVAN, TELL US ABOUT WHERE 
WE ARE IN THIS INVESTIGATION 
ABOUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT 
HAPPENED A WEEK AGO.
>> Reporter: THE INVESTIGATION 
IS AT A FAIRLY EARLY STAGE, BUT 
IT DOES HAVE SOME OF THE MAIN 
ELEMENTS THAT IT IS GOING TO 
NEED TO COME TO A CONCLUSION, 
WHICH ARE THE DATA RECORDERS, 
DESIGNED TO DETACH FROM A 
HELICOPTER WHEN IT HITS THE 
WATER AS IT DID IN THIS CASE.
SO, BOTH THE FLIGHT DATA 
RECORDER AND THE VOICE RECORDER 
WHICH WOULD CAPTURE ANY 
CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN THE CREW 
IN THE COCKPIT CAME OFF THE 
HELICOPTER WHEN IT HIT THE 
WATER IN THE IONIAN SEA.
AND THAT DATA, OF COURSE, WILL 
BE MINUTELY ANALYZED TO SEE 
WHAT IT REVEALS ABOUT THIS 
CRASH.
THERE'S ALSO WITNESS STATEMENTS 
BECAUSE THIS WAS WITNESSED BY A 
NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THE DECK OF 
THE FREDERICTON.
THE FLIGHT OFFICER WOULD HAVE 
BEEN ON DECK AND THE OFFICERS 
OF THE GROUND CREW TO RECEIVE 
IT WHEN THE HELICOPTERS LAND.
THERE'S [INAUDIBLE] ATTACHED TO 
THEM AND GROUND CREW MEMBERS 
ARE WAITING FOR THE HELICOPTER 
SO THE SHIP WOULD BE DECLARING 
FLIGHT STATIONS SOME TIME 
BEFORE THE HELICOPTER ACTUALLY 
COMES BACK ON TO THE DECK AND 
PEOPLE WHO NEED TO BE THERE 
WOULD BE THERE READY.
AND WE'RE TOLD THAT THEY SAW 
THIS HELICOPTER PLUNGE INTO THE 
WATER WITHIN TWO MILES OF THE 
DECK.
THEY ARE NOW -- THOSE PEOPLE 
ARE NOW IN TORONTO WHERE THE 
SHIP HAS DOCKED IN ITALY AND 
THEY'RE BEING INTERVIEWED BY 
FLIGHT SAFETY INVESTIGATORS.
THEY WILL TAKE THEIR STATEMENTS 
AND THE ELECTRONIC DATA 
[INAUDIBLE] ARE TWO OR THREE 
ELEMENTS THAT YOU WOULD IDEALLY 
WANT TO HAVE FOR AN 
INVESTIGATION.
THE THIRD IS THE WRECKAGE 
ITSELF AND WE HEARD GENERAL 
VANCE TALK ABOUT A WIDE DEBRIS 
FIELD THAT WAS FOUND BY THE 
SHIPS THAT WERE SEARCHING FOR 
THE SIX CREW MEMBERS.
THEY WOULD HAVE, WE BELIEVE, 
PRESUMABLY RECOVERED SOME OF 
THAT DEBRIS.
BUT, OF COURSE, HELICOPTERS 
BEING MADE OF METAL, MOSTLY,
ZINC AND THIS PARTICULAR 
HELICOPTER SANK IN AN AREA OF 
THE MEDITERRANEAN CALLED THE 
HELLENIC TRENCH, WHICH IS THE 
DEEPEST PART OF THE 
MEDITERRANEAN.
THE MEDITERRANEAN, YOU KNOW, IS 
NOT IN MOST PLACES DEEP LIKE 
THE ATLANTIC AND PACIFIC, BUT 
JUST SO HAPPENS WHERE THIS 
PARTICULAR MISSION WAS TAKING 
PLACE, IT IS EXTREMELY DEEP.
OVER 3,000 METRES IN MANY 
PLACES AND THAT IS GOING TO 
MAKE THAT -- THE RECOVERY OF 
THAT WRECKAGE, WHICH WOULD ALSO 
CONTAIN IMPORTANT CLUES 
PROBABLY FOR THE INVESTIGATORS, 
IS GOING TO BE VERY, VERY 
DIFFICULT.
AND IF IT CAN'T BE RECOVERED, 
THIS ENTHIS INVESTIGATION WILL 
HAVE TO GO FORWARD, MISSING 
WHAT IS USUALLY A VERY 
IMPORTANT ELEMENT OF ANY AIR 
CRASH INVESTIGATION.
>> Andrew: AND EVAN AND MAJOR 
DUNNE, IF YOU'LL HOLD ON THERE 
I WANT TO BRING IN TIMOTHY CHOI 
ON THE EDITORIAL BOARD OF THE 
CANADIAN NAVAL REVIEW AND WITH 
THE CENTRE FOR MILITARY AND 
STRATEGIC STUDIES AT THE 
UNIVERSITY OF CALGARY.
AND SO, TIMOTHY, YOU WATCHED 
THE CEREMONY.
WHAT DID IT MEAN TO YOU?
WHAT DO YOU THINK IT MEANT TO 
THE FAMILIS?
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, 
ANDREW.
FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO 
EXPRESS MY CONDOLENCES TO THE 
FAMILIES, FRIENDS AND SHIPMATES 
OF THE CREW THAT WENT DOWN.
HOPEFULLY MY COMMENTS WILL DO 
SOME JUSTICE TO THEIR MEMORIES.
AS TIM AND EVAN HAVE NOTED, 
WHEN WE COMMEMORATE THOSE WHO 
PERISH AT SEA, WE OFTEN MENTION 
HOW THERE ARE NO GRAVES AND NO 
MARKERS AND A CEREMONY AS WE'RE 
WATCHING IT AND REALLY BRINGS 
THAT HOME.
AND SINCE AFGHANISTAN, THERE 
HASN'T BEEN A TRAGEDY OF THIS 
MAGNITUDE IN THE CANADIAN 
MILITARY AND I HOPE THEY CAN 
FIND SOLACE IN EACH OTHER 
DESPITE THE CHALLENGES OF 
COVID-19 AND ITS TIME.
>> Andrew: THAT WAS SOMETHING 
TO REMARK, WASN'T IT, MAJOR 
DUNNE, AS YOU SAW, YOU KNOW, 
WHAT WILL BE FOREVER PROBABLY 
REMINDED OF THIS CEREMONY IN 
THAT SENSE JUST SEEING 
EVERYBODY WEARING A MASK.
[PLEASE STAND BY]
# AND THAT TOO IS ANOTHER
TRAGEDY.
>> Andrew: AND TIMOTHY TROY,
WE HAD THE REPATRIATION CEREMONY
HERE, BUT THERE'S STILL A
RECOVERY OPERATION OFF THE COAST
OF GREECE.
CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE
MISSION THE CREW WAS INVOLVED
IN.
>> RIGHT, SO THERE ARE BASICALLY
THREE MAIN CONTEXTS IN WHICH THE
FREDERICTON WAS DEPLOYED.
FIRSTLY, THEY'RE PART OF
STANDING NATO MARITIME GROUP 2,
ONE OF FOUR NATO PERMANENT
STANDING FLEETS THAT ARE
AVAILABLE AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE
SAY LEVEL OF HIGH READINESS TO
RESPOND TO ANY KIND OF ACUTE
EMERGENCIES WHILE ALSO
CONDUCTING EVERYDAY CHRONIC
DETERRENCE AND PRESENCE MISSION.
THE SECOND PART OF THIS IS THE
CANADIAN COMPONENT WHICH IS
OPERATION REASSURANCE.
AND THAT'S THE CANADIAN
CONTRIBUTION TO THE OVERALL NATO
DETERRENT AND ASSURANCE MISSION
IN THE AFTERMATH OF RUSSIA'S
ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA IN 2014 SO
THE FREDERICTON IS DEPLOYED AS
PART OF OPERATION REASSURANCE
AND OPERATING IN THE
MEDITERRANEAN AND BLACK SEAS AND
ASSURE NATO MEMBERS AND RUSSIA
THAT SHIPS ARE READY AT A
MOMENT'S NOTICE TO RESPOND.
AND THIS IS THE MOST THAT GETS
THE LEAST ATTENTION IS GENERAL
MARITIME SECURITY OPERATION AND
NAVIES ARE INTERESTING AND A
KNEW EKE BRANCH OF ARMED FORCES
IN THAT THEY FUNCTION AS
EMERGENCY SERVICES ON THE HIGH
SEAS DURING PEACE TIME.
FOR EXAMPLE THERE ARE NO
AMBULANCES OR FIRE DEPARTMENTS
THAT CIVILIANS CAN CALL WHEN
YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
OCEAN SO NAVAL SHIPS ON PLAY
THAT EMERGENCY RESPONSE ROLE.
FOR EXAMPLE IF YOUR BOAT CATCHES
ON FIRE, IT MAY BE A NAVY
FRIGATE AND IF SOMEBODY ON-BOARD
YOUR SHIP IS HURT, A MEDICAL
DOCTOR FROM A WARSHIP MAY BE
COMING TO YOUR ASSISTANCE RATHER
THAN A CIVILIAN DOCTOR.
AND IF THERE ARE PEOPLE, DRUGS
OR WEAPONS SMUGGLED, IT'S NOT
ALWAYS THE RCMP PULLING YOU OVER
AND CONFISCATING THAT
CONTRABAND, IT WILL BE A NAVY OR
COAST GUARD SHIP DEPENDING ON
THE REGION OF THE WORLD AND TO
BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THESE
EMERGENCY AND SECURITY SERVICES
NAVIES HAVE TO BE FAMILIAR WITH
THE ROUTINE OF THE REGION
THEY'RE IN.
THEY HAVE TO BUILD A BASE LINE
NORMAL PICTURE SO THEY CAN
EASILY SEE WHAT ISN'T NORMAL AND
THEREFORE BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY
THESE ABNORMALITIES AND CHECK
THEM OUT SO IT TAKES A LOT OF
UNIQUE WORK AND HIGH-TECH SKILLS
TO BUILD THIS PICTURE ACROSS THE
BROAD EXPANSES OF THE OCEAN.
>> Andrew: AND I WANT TO BRING
BACK THE CBC'S EVAN DYER, JUST
YOUR FINAL THOUGHTS ON WHAT WE
HAVE BEEN WATCHING TODAY AND
WHERE WE ARE IN THE
INVESTIGATION.
>> Reporter: WELL, EVERYTHING
JUST SAID IS VERY TRUE AND
CANADA HAS SEEN OPERATION
REASSURANCE, THAT'S ONE OF ITS
MOST IMPORTANT COMMITMENTS
AROUND THE WORLD, IT'S BEEN SIX
YEARS NOW, THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A
CANADIAN PRESENCE IN THE
MARITIME COMPONENT OF OPERATION
REASSURANCE.
THERE ARE LAND FORCES THERE,
TOO, IN LATVIA WHICH CANADA
INTENDS TO KEEP.
AND THERE'S ALSO AN AIR PATROL
COMPONENT IN THE BALTIC SO THIS
IS A MISSION THAT THE CANADIAN
MILITARY TOOK VERY, VERY
SERIOUSLY AND IT APPEARS INTENDS
TO CONTINUE WITH.
IT'S BEEN TOUGH, THOUGH, TO
WATCH THIS FUNERAL AND, OF
COURSE, FOR THE FREDERICTON, I
CAN ONLY IMAGINE FOR THE CREW IF
THEY CONTINUE THEIR DEPLOYMENT,
THIS IS GOING TO BE THE THING
THAT THEY REMEMBER FROM IT
ALWAYS.
AND WATCHING THEM COMING HOME
LIKE THAT, JUST IN THE FORM OF
THEIR WEDGE CAPS AND PEAKED CAP
IN THE CASE OF MATTHEW PYKE,
THAT'S PARTICULARLY TOUGH FOR
THE FAMILIES.
THIS CEREMONY WAS NEVER GOING TO
BE EASY BUT TWO THINGS MADE IT
HARDER, ONE IS ONLY HAVING THE
REMAINS -- IDENTIFIED REMAINS OF
ONE OF THE VICTIMS, ONE FAMILY
PROBABLY WILL YET BE ABLE TO
HAVE REMAINS, THE OTHER FOUR
PROBABLY EXPECT NEVER WILL.
THE OTHER THING MAKING IT HARDER
IS COVID-19, AND SEEING CAPTAIN
MacDONALD'S CHILDREN THERE
REACHING OUT, VERY POIGNANT.
>> Andrew: MAJOR DUNN, YOUR
THOUGHTS AS WE CONTINUE TO
WATCH, THIS IS NOW MOVING ON
TOWARDS LEAVING CFB TRENTON,
MOVING ON TO THE ROAD AND THEN
ON TO THE HIGHWAY OF HEROES,
HIGHWAY 401 ON ITS WAY TO
TORONTO.
FINAL THOUGHTS FROM YOU, SIR.
>> MY ONLY THOUGHTS ARE THAT
SYMPATHY FOR THE FAMILIES AND MY
THOUGHTS FOR THE CREW MEMBERS,
THE COLLEAGUES, THE FRIENDS, THE
ASSOCIATES OF THOSE WHO WERE
KILLED.
THAT HAS TO BE ALSO VERY
DIFFICULT.
I REMEMBER SOME OF THE
SITUATIONS WE HAD WHEN I WAS
DEPLOYED IN BOSNIA WHERE WE HAD
LOST ONE OF OUR SOLDIERS AT ONE
TIME OR ANOTHER, AND THE
INCREDIBLE IMPACT THAT HAD ON
EVERYBODY AROUND US, WHETHER WE
KNEW THEM PERSONALLY OR NOT.
THE IMPACT WAS PHENOMENAL.
AND WE ALWAYS HAD A VERY SOMBRE
MOMENT WHEN WE RETURNED THOSE
PEOPLE BACK TO HOME.
>> Andrew: AND WHAT DO YOU
MAKE OF THIS, THAT IT'S
HAPPENING DURING THIS PANDEMIC?
MAJOR DUNN.
>> WELL, IT MAKES IT ALL THE
MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE, OF
COURSE, THE PEOPLE CAN'T
ASSOCIATE.
EVEN ON-BOARD THE SHIP, I WAS
TALKING WITH ONE OF THE PEOPLE
WITH THE AIRFORCE THIS MORNING,
AND SHE REMINDED THAT, OF
COURSE, BECAUSE OF COVID, NO ONE
WAS ABLE TO GET TO A PORT VISIT,
SO THEY WERE CONFINED TO THE
SHIP FOR THE DURATION OF THE
TIME THAT THEY WERE DEPLOYED
SINCE COVID-19 BEGAN.
WHICH MADE THAT SENSE OF
COMMUNITY, THAT SENSE OF
COMRADESHIP, OF FAMILY EVEN MORE
STRONG SO THAT HAS TO ALSO MAKE
THESE SIX DEATHS ALL THE MORE
DIFFICULT TO ACCEPT.
>> Andrew: AND THEN, MAJOR
DUNN, THE INTERVIEWS COULD BE
TAKING PLACE WITH MEMBERS WHO
WITNESSED THIS CRASH, RIGHT, AND
THAT COULD CONTINUE.
>> INDEED.
IN FACT, I'LL BE SPEAKING WITH
THE DIRECTOR OF FLIGHT SAFETY
TOMORROW RELATED TO THIS, JUST
TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS IN A
FLIGHT SAFETY INVESTIGATION WHEN
THERE IS AN ACCIDENT, WHAT ARE
THEY LOOKING FOR AND WHAT ARE
THE RESULTS OF AN INVESTIGATION
OF THIS SORT.
>> Andrew: AND TIMOTHY CHOY,
JUST YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT, WHAT
WOULD BE TAKING PLACE NOW WHEN
IT COMES TO THE INVESTIGATION?
>> WELL, RIGHT NOW, IT'S HARD TO
REALLY SAY THE RIGHT WORDS.
I JUST HEARD FROM, YOU KNOW, A
COLLEAGUE OF MINE HERE IN
CALGARY AND SHE HAD FRIENDS
ON-BOARD FREDERICTON, I CAN ONLY
IMAGINE WHAT THEY'RE FEELING.
YOU KNOW, FREDERICTON, IN TERMS
OF -- WELL, I CAN REMIND YOU,
YOU KNOW, HIGHLIGHT AT LEAST
WHAT THE HELICOPTER WAS DOING
AND CREW ON THAT PARTICULAR
FLIGHT.
A LOT OF TIMES, I KNOW SOME
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE WONDERING
WHY, YOU KNOW, FOR A HELICOPTER,
A CREW OF FOUR, WHY IS THERE TWO
EXTRA NAVAL PERSONNEL ON-BOARD.
QUITE FRANKLY, YOU NEED BOTH A
HELICOPTER AND A SHIP, THEY'RE
CLOSELY INTEGRATED ENTITY, AND
IN ORDER TO BOARD THE SHIP, TO
ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THE
CAPABILITIES OF THE HELICOPTERS,
THEY NEED THE SHIP'S CREW ALSO
NEEDS TO BE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT
THE LIMITS OF THE HELICOPTER IS.
AND SO ON-BOARD, YOU HAVE THOSE
TWO NAVAL OFFICERS WHO WERE
THERE TO REALLY FAMILIARIZE
THEMSELVES WITH THE COMPACTS OF
THIS HELICOPTER AND TRY TO
FIGURE OUT, WELL, WHEN TO USE
IT, WHEN NOT TO USE IT, AND SO
ALL OF THIS -- WHILE YOU'RE
TRYING TO COMPILE THAT PICTURE
OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE
IONIAN SEA, YOU MAINTAIN THAT
MARITIME AWARENESS TO BUILD
WHAT'S NORMALLY AND WHAT'S NOT
AND CERTAINLY IN THIS PARTICULAR
TIME OF COVID-19, YOU HAVE A
DRAMATIC CHANGE IN THE SOCIAL
ACTIVITY THEY'RE GOING OFF ON
THE WATER AND SO UNLIKE PERHAPS
USUAL TIMES, YOU CAN'T REALLY
LEVERAGE THE EXISTING PAST
BASELINE PICTURES OF THE
REGIONS, YOU HAVE TO BUILD THEM
BASICALLY FROM SCRATCH OR A LOT
MORE WORK THEY HAVE TO DO TO
OPERATE IN THAT AREA THAN IN THE
PAST.
>> Andrew: ALL RIGHT.
TIMOTHY CHOY, MAJOR TIM DUNN,
AND THE CBC'S EVAN DYER, THANK
YOU ALL VERY MUCH.
AS WE WATCH ANOTHER SAD DAY IN
THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY.
WE HAVE SOME OTHER NEWS TO TELL
YOU ABOUT AS WELL TODAY, A SMALL
NUMBER OF MPs GATHERED IN THE
HOUSE OF COMMONS
