so welcome to creating a beautiful world
radio show with
Michael Lanfield and this episode four
is why positivity and hope are crucial
to achieving world peace
and of course we know that non-violence
is also
crucial to achieving world peace and
what is world peace we're going to be
talking to
a special guest today Judy Carman
and uh she is like one of my favorite
authors
and i really enjoyed uh especially her
book
piece to all beings and as soon as i
read
and i read her newest book
omo ahimsa i
understood what her message was and i'm
going to let her explain that to you
so judy carmen is an animal liberation
activist since the 1970s
and has helped establish various
activist organizations for animals and
children
she became vegetarian in the 1970s and
vegan
after learning about cruelty involved in
dairy and eggs
she is the author of several books
including peace to
all beings and homo ahimsa
who we really are and how we're going to
save the world
she has created prayer flags for animals
where people display flags from all over
the world
and is currently involved in projects
such as
interfaith vegan collision and vegan
spirituality through
defense in defense of animals or ida
circles of compassion prayer circles
for animals with will and madeleine
tuttle and
you can visit her websites at
peacetoallbeings.com
and circles of compassion.org
and because this is going to be
uploaded to youtube you'll be able to
click on all the links down below in the
description so all the information will
be
provided and so before we actually start
we're going to
just have a few updates and things
what's going on
with this radio program as well as
my work so we have exciting
guests gonna be uh partaking in this
show uh next two weeks
um let me see i think it's i think it's
i think it's september 9 i'm not
mistaken let me just double check here
september nine we're going to have mango
what zach
who is an author of several books on
eden for terranism
and you can visit his website at
foodnot.net
and he is going to be on on
um on the 9th of
ninth of september so you can check that
out
go to we are interconnected dot com and
click on the radio show link there
you'll all the information is posted
there
so yes that is
happening on the ninth and we have other
exciting guests as well let me just
uh introduce you to some of the
some of the guests that will be on the
on the show because i think you're going
to love it
and the show airs every two weeks and
it's based on trying to transition
away and how we can basically cope in
this society that we're living in
currently and how we can actually walk
away from it and create
a new world based on caring and love and
sharing
so that is what um
that is what our aim is here on this in
this show
so the event is sponsored by evolution
diet pet food
so if you have a companion animal cat
dog or
any animal you can transition them and
feed them vegan pet food through
evolution diet pet food so this is
sponsored by
my good friends lynn and eric wiseman
and you can check them out at
petfoodshop.com
that's petfoodshop.com yeah so um
the following week will be
uh september 9 will be 4 pm
central time in costa rica which is 6 00
p.m
new york toronto time we'll have the
power of fruit and non-violence
interview with mango woodzak
and that will be exciting then we have
again
we have another two guests on september
25th
which is rob renmark and brenda vance
and they'll be talking about the
benefits of eating fruitarian and raw
vegan
and then on october 9th we will have
the power of vegan food recipes so
that'll be a little
kind of different with lena novak from
lena's vegan living
so that is the schedule
as of now and you can visit
we are interconnected dot com and click
on the
radio show link there and what else is
up
uh well i posted recently um
recently posted
my books as ebooks so there's new
formats coming out
on barnes and noble and different
different platforms there's going to be
ebooks on there my newest one and
soon coming out on audible and about 30
other different platforms
my newest book the journey to awakening
will be available and that is
graciously graciously provided the music
by
moby so it's great
short audio book on why we have to
transition away from
our society as well as exercising our
birth rights as
as human beings so without further ado
we're going to
get started with this um interview
hopefully people are going to be on in
shortly
so let's start so it's so nice to have
one here judy carmen thank you so much
for being on
creating a beautiful world oh thanks
michael for having me i'm really
honored to be uh in the presence of such
a great author and
and it's so wonderful to be
together because we're so much on the
same page
in many many ways um i'm just
our our vision for a vegan world
and a peaceful world of non-violence and
himself so
i feel like i'm definitely in the right
place right now
talking to you so uh it's just great to
be here
so thanks for having me excellent it's
so great to have you here and to have
everybody else
going to be coming on the line as well
as uh
listening or watching this at any time
through youtube
so it will all i forgot actually one
second here
oh good good good okay
i almost thought i forgot to
start recording but it's recording so
i'm happy
yeah i heard her say he was recording
yeah we're good
that's good we're good i love that
little lady
yeah she's very assuring
right so um can you talk a little bit
about both your books and the
differences between them
uh peace to all beings and homo himself
sure yeah i'm glad to do that um peace
to all beings i wrote
a while back it's been a while but it
still
seems to have a life of its own uh
people
have told me mostly that it's um
just very reassuring to them and makes
them feel like
in fact i just got an email today from
someone who said
she reads it periodically to
realize that she's not alone in
this quest that we have to create a
world of peace
not just for people but for all beings
so but that book um basically
i wrote it to reassure vegans
and uh help us see that no we're not
alone there's a lot of
us out there on on the same page but i
also wrote it
so people could give it to pre-vegans
so they can see things such as
like i'll have a a story i've got lots
of little stories and they're true
stories about for example a pig that
saved a little boy
and a a monkey who jumps in the river
and saves a child
and takes the child back to the mother
just
stories like that that you know
you really after you read that you can't
say that animals don't have feelings
personalities
intelligence and that they're trying to
tell us
something they're trying to show us
how to live and uh so there's
there's that in there in the book
and um it's also showing the connection
between spirituality
and veganism which i think uh
for a long time was kind of missing
and i think largely because churches
and other uh places of faith
kind of ignored animals either ignored
them or
participated mostly participated
in their abuse with potlucks that
included
animal products of course but also
taking
kids to zoos and circuses
and rodeos as a church activity
and fishing and all that and so
a lot of people including myself i i
spent some time as an atheist um
because i just felt like there was no
help for nature and animals in the
spiritual world
but that that changed over time and
um i started really studying and
and actually i must say needing
a spiritual life and it it came to me
really that
veganism is a spiritual act
because you are acting
from your heart and your soul
when you decide to no longer
participating cruelty to animals
and the exploitation of them
and so it's a it
becomes part and parcel of your life
spirituality and uh the vegan ethic
but uh i i'll still it still offends a
lot of people for me to say that
and so i just say you know i'm not
saying
that it's a religious act
necessarily because a lot of religions
do lots of actions that are very unvegan
i'm saying it's a spiritual act and
and even if you identify as an atheist
which many do or an agnostic
you're a vegan for some reason that
is way beyond way beyond
just logic you're not just saying
okay this this isn't logical to kill
animals you're saying this isn't
right and otherwise you would not be
dedicating your life to this way of
living
and so it is it is coming
from the deepest part of you
to be an ethical vegan and
so and should i explain more about what
veganism is
before we have it um actually i just
want to stop you here for a moment
and just say that um i love the way will
tuttle talks about deep veganism and the
vegan stages
because when we start as a vegan
we really are are just kind of on our
beginning path
and we can say we're maybe shallow vegan
or maybe we're in our beginning stages
basically we're in our in the beginning
stages of
being vegan and understanding like what
do i do what do i eat
um all these feelings uh
if we went vegan for health or for
environmental reasons first and then
ethics or ethics first
whatever it is eventually we start to
you know understanding the ethics and
that's really what it boiled down to
because
donald watson in november of 1944 he
said
that it was because of kindness
compassion for the animals he knew that
there was
cruelty involved in eating animal
products
especially at the time dairy products
because dairy products was huge at the
time
and especially now of course too but um
yeah go ahead and continue the
discussion
yeah so for anyone that's listening in
vegan what we're basically saying is
a plant-based diet is one thing uh and
a lot of people think that veganism is
just that
just the plant-based diet but it's it's
much more than that it's a dedication
to non-violence basically and a
dedication to
including all beings in our
circle of compassion but you're right a
lot of people
and maybe many listeners
may be looking at it from a health point
of view because it is a healthier diet
for sure
and there's a way less chance of getting
heart disease or
cancer or many
many other of the common diseases in the
united states
especially if you
eat a plant-based a whole food
plant-based diet
and in your case a raw
fructarian diet which is really
really wonderful yeah that's um too
extreme but
yeah okay it's a beautiful way to eat
but it's it's not uh it's not practical
in some cases for a lot of people
um especially if you live in the north
and
you know it's hard to get a lot of fruit
and so forth but
but at any rate many people who start
out eating plant-based for health
find in fact well i'll just give you an
example
of one person that i met who and it was
a gentleman
and i was at veg summerfest and i sat
down at the table with
him and his family and they had become
plant-based
because they all had um
a disease and a gastrointestinal disease
and they were told that if they ate
plant-based
they would get well well they did they
all got well
from this and so so
they're going along they're not even
realizing
that they're eating vegan
that that's actually protecting animals
they're not even thinking about that
at first but he said that
at some point he started realizing
that he would watch a movie that
used it didn't used to bother him at all
a sad movie
but all of a sudden he cried his
empathy had started just
just expanding and
he then they started learning about what
was going on to animals
because their empathy was
had had expanded enough well his but the
others were agreeing with them
um and
and then it was it was like more because
they were
eating plant-based they weren't eating
animals it became
easier for them to watch the videos
and see what was really happening to the
animals
and kind of like okay the the famous
saying now i can
look at human peace because i don't eat
you
and so they went from the health
standpoint
to becoming ethical vegans and
um but it it's and that indicates to me
that there's definitely something in
the animal products uh
that is embedded in that that the people
who are eating it embedded into
themselves and then
and that is the violence of them being
raised the way they are
and being killed in the way they are
well being killed period and the fear
the trauma the horror
and and the innocence
of these animals being
obliterated totally defenseless animals
and so when you take that
all those hormones and um
and energy the energy field of abs
absolute terror out of your diet
then you're you have the ability to
shift your consciousness in
really astounding ways and
so unless maybe unless maybe you're
still
on that beginning stage and you still
don't really understand because some
people
get to that stage and get even beyond
that to a stage
called uh well a stage where we're
actually angry and it's like angry
vegans and we're always angry and i've
and i've known people
for 20 or 30 years and they're still
they still have this angry mentality
like it's me versus them you know
another person
we see them as separate yeah that's
really true michael and so that the
empathy kind of stops with the animals
and other vegans but that's another
reason
i wrote that book and i'm glad you
brought that up because
that's um because
as we learn as we gradually learn it's
because it takes time as
little talks about we have so many
programs
to get rid of that we're not even
aware that that we have and it so it
takes time we have to be very patient
with ourselves
but the anger that a lot of
uh vegans have and activists have
is hurting them i mean that's what anger
does
it it's it's actually depression
being expressed outward towards someone
else
and so it's a way to cope
with the terrible things that we have
seen
but it is not an effective way and so
uh part of my book is also about
coming to terms with that
the fact that almost all of us started
out eating
animals uh unless we were raised vegan
and my vegan parents um we started out
that way we started
out being taught that
eating meat was important for our health
and it was okay the animals didn't
really it didn't really hurt them and
all this
all these lies and so we
were all there at one point i mean it
uh it took me a long time to understand
what was really happening to the animals
and
so i wanted to say in that book control
beings
that these people even the people
for example who work in the
slaughterhouse
excuse me
they are suffering in terrible ways and
that's another
part of the um
the inner the damaged energy field that
we're incorporating if we
meet is is the the horror
that they are living in
by having to make a living killing
animals
so their their rate of suicide is very
high
and fossil abuse and drug addiction and
all those things because of their
suffering it's not normal for a human
being
to to inflict that kind of pain
on an animal actually there's actually a
book
uh called slaughterhouses by dale
eisenitz which really goes into this
and especially in the u.s because the
u.s is the worst but
i mean everywhere i mean no matter where
how
or where you kill the animals i mean
eventually all animals
go to their deaths early on before their
natural lifespan
and even before then you steal from them
we take their products we remove their
babies from them
and we the whole point is that we live
in a hurting culture that
you basically see other beings as
property as things to be used
and so how does your new book
how do you go by like like what is your
main message in that book
okay so i wrote homo hampshire
actually came up with the concept of
homo and himself and peace to all beings
because my idea was that homo sapiens
has made
a gigantic mess of the world
right alligators didn't do it
cows didn't do it snakes didn't do it
only homo sapiens which is supposedly
means wise human right
not too wise um and the more technology
we gained
the more damage was done and stylish
route talks about
uh how we have been like caterpillars
who forgot
we were supposed to be butterflies and
so we just keep chomping chomping
chomping
and uh interesting to me that
a lot of the big bulldozers are made by
a company called caterpillar
um he is like we need to
go into our chrysalises and decompose
basically turn into goo and come out as
butterflies a new
creature and i had already been thinking
along those lines
of homo ahimsa and so but
things got so bad have gotten
so bad i felt like i've got to get this
more um uh clear
so that we can get that message out to
people we
don't have very much time at all
but as you say there's hope
and i think a lot of people are losing
their hope
so what you're doing is really really
important
because we can't we can't keep
being activists if we don't have any
hope
and the news that's coming out now
and this whole pandemic thing
is scaring people
and you can't think you can't
create when you're living in fear and
so it's we are getting so close to the
precipice
with uh all of the
ocean uh dead zones
the pollution in the oceans now we're
adding
tons of masks to the ocean disposed
masks and who knows what all
and uh so it's even worse and of course
the fish and dying and um
and of course the uh what stylish is
taught stylish rao who wrote
um carbon dharma and carbon yoga those
are both
really important books to read he is uh
predicting that if we don't change our
ways in the next
six years which is gradually getting to
five years
that all the world vertebrates will be
extinct by 2026.
so his website is um
veganworld 2026 i think anyway
i mean you can find it that way um
yeah kind of healers things. and um
they're they're doing a lot of really
great things there
they've got a lot of people working on
different projects like
feeding the hungry vegan food of course
and figuring out how we're going to do
money
how we're going to change the economy so
that it
works really works
yeah and and spiritual
aspects of all this reaching out to
churches
trying to get them to see that they
have got to get on board here or we're
going to lose
our our homo sapiens
miss right we're going to be gone
right and just one side note for people
that want to
uh join we have a forum online through
peaceful village
it's forum dot peaceful hyphen
village.com
where people can join and start to
discuss and learn about
how can we create alternative
communities and that will all be in the
description below
the youtube video so don't worry about
that forum
dot peaceful peacefulhyphenvillage.com
and there you can discuss on how we can
create
a new world because now i mean the world
as we know it is governed is is
is governed by um people and authorities
so-called authorities the elite people
police governments et cetera mega
corporations mainstream media etc
and we've been doing this for literally
and even science has been around for
literally three four hundred years maybe
a little longer with government and so
forth and
it's no longer working i mean we've been
reforming
this society for so long and now it's
time to get out
as uh as a caterpillar and transform
into a butterfly so let's do that let's
create this new world
and we can do that through platforms
like this and books like judy's and mine
and so forth
and i just want to also mention that
judy was also the
forward writer to my newest book
creating a beautiful world
so thank you for that and yeah
and also um we were talking before about
you just want i just want to clear this
up a little bit about the plant-based
versus veganism because i think people
are getting
being very uh delusional
mistaking uh plant-based for vegan and
they're going to
restaurants that serve plant-based
burgers and food
and even long-term vegans for example
and i can't believe it because
a lot of these foods are not even first
of all not even vegan
they're grilled on the same usually the
same grill or
in the same oil as animal products
um people for some reason want to get on
the bandwagon
where why do you think it's happening
that plant-based is starting the term
plant base is starting to
uh have momentum and where do you think
it came from
like who started it well that's a good
question
michael i don't really know that i think
i've been using it to just discriminate
between
the the actual diet itself
food you know that people are eating
versus the ethics
of veganism and how far
that is and really it's uh
synonymous veganism is synonymous with
ahimsa
and um yeah and i did want to spend a
little time
talking about what on him some means i
was
talking to silas the other day and he he
said
that a okay this is a sanskrit word
and that means non-harm and
and that's what i've been saying it
means non-harm well
salish said it's a little more than that
he said that a in the word means in
sanskrit
exact opposite and him saw
the next part of the word means
extreme deliberate cruelty so he was
saying it doesn't just mean harm
it means extreme deliberate cruelty so
ahimsa is the exact opposite
of extreme deliberate cruelty so
it is in essence extreme
kindness and compassion and non-violence
extreme and so the
do we have justification for
for some sort of harm or some sort of
use because you said extreme use
or extreme harm what what are you asking
uh sorry um just rephrase the question
um
you said it was extreme harm or extreme
abuse
people would say well i'm not really
abusing this animal it's uh
it's humane or i'm doing it with the
least amount of pain or at least amount
of suffering
so yeah that's a very good point
he was just uh explaining what
a himself actually means in sanskrit
and so but you're very very
right to point that out because we we do
not
want to say that if it's not extreme
cruelty it's okay
you know so that's really
that's really a good good point um
but basically um
ahem saw and there are books written
about it and it is a a jane
term the james may be one of the oldest
religions in the world
they may have predated writing
we don't really know because they
predated
if it predated writing and so
uh but if that's the case that would
help
explain why the jains are so close
to understanding this and have been
for all these centuries they've had
animal hospitals for centuries
and um many of the
the jane monks wear masks so that they
won't accidentally inhale an instead
and they'll have a little broom that
they'll
whisk off a seat before they sit down
and make sure they don't sit on anybody
so they still some of the james
still use dairy
as a religious thing but there are many
vegan james now coming out but in in
any case uh another aspect of the himsaw
is that gandhi took the vow of the
ahimsa
and carried it into
the political world where he tried to
explain
that that we don't have them wars
we can change society by
by ascribing to absolute non-harm
absolute non-violence and so
we learned a lot from him about
non-violent communication nonviolent um
non well non-cooperation with
authorities and that sort of thing
but um at any rate so
my idea about homer himself is that homo
sapiens
cannot solve the problems that homo
sapiens
caused because if you just look at what
homo sapiens is doing
through our technology and
our huge giant businesses and all the
money involved in that
and the government of course it's just
getting worse and worse and worse which
is
very frightening to everyone and i
wanted to say
in that book okay it's scary
but we have hope because we
if we do it right we can trans
not really transform because we already
are
homo ahimsa that's why i wrote in the
subtitle who we really are
but we because of the patriarchal
anthropocentric mindset that we've been
in for the last at least 10 000 years
since animal agriculture started and
that's a whole other
huge topic but um
prior to animal agriculture there is
evidence
of much more peaceful uh
getting along with each people getting
along with each other
there's evidence there was no war
there's evidence there were no pandemics
before animal agriculture started
but in any case here we are
and we have to move completely
away from the patriarchal
dominator mindset that we've
all been raised in our s we've learned
it in school
our place of worship our parents who
didn't know
any different and grandparents as well
and all you know well basically
everybody because we've all been
programmed into this
culture so it's
it's a big job but we can do it because
and the reason i think we can do it
is because there is an innate love
within us within our hearts within every
human being
unless you're an extreme psychopath
there
is that innate love within our heart
and if we tap into that we can
lose our fear go past our fear and
actually
like what you're saying michael is find
ways to live where we don't
need the big government big
ag big pharma and all of those things
we can they will fall away
because we're not
using them we're not needing them and i
know that sounds
sounds like a wild idea but that's where
we have to go
and we're capable of going there
if we want too badly enough and if we
want to survive
as a species and so i'm saying
let's leave our homes homo sapiens
behind open up to who we really are
a loving being that is
here to bring love to the world open up
to that
let all that those programs go and it's
going to take
you know meditation it's going to take
being together like
like on michael's show and listening to
these ideas
and um and hearing this
beautiful message that you have that we
can
do this exactly there's there is hope
and uh and then so another part of my
book
is uh imagining
what this vegan world would look like
and i thought i have a whole bunch of
different
you know just things listed what what it
would look like of course there would be
no
fences there would be no no animals in
chains and um and
little you know tiny cubicles where
they're being tortured
none of that would exist all the animals
would be free
and people would be free
we'd be free then to be creative to
create this new world and to be fearless
in that and to believe in ourselves and
know
that there's good in there so
um yeah i really believe we can do it
and
of course i left room in the book for
people to add their own ideas
of of uh things you can do and then
you're having this
um peaceful village forum and pilot
is having his group meetings
so there's a lot going on
yeah that's the main thing that i really
love about your book
because there's so many books on why
it's
why we should be going vegan and the
three main things of course the
health environment and the ethics
for the animals and i love what i really
love about your book is
the is the hope and the positivity it
gives
you know like we can really do this we
have
like we are innately um
and spiritually we are homo ahimsa
we are this you know incredible wise
being
that can get out of the mess that we're
in today
and that's really what i like about it
because it really
so talk a little bit more about that how
uh
it really brings a positive hope to to
the world and especially to vegans
because we feel like oh as vegan there's
so much killing going on and we
feel depressed and there's you know so
much violence and
people just won't listen to us um
and your book really says no people
are changing things are are progressing
and we can get out of this mess and
humans are not innately
violent because we're all born babies
innocent
and we've just been programmed to think
differently than what we
really truly are so what we need to do
is reawaken
so talk a little bit about that right
yeah you're so right
absolutely and find it inside of
ourselves this
not just the hope but the belief in
in our humanity that we
really are beings of love and
the one thing i talk about uh is the
golden rule
that every almost every religion
has some version of the golden rule
due unto others as you would have them
do unto you
and of course they almost all except for
the genes and a few others
limited it to humans okay just be nice
to the people
don't worry about the animals well
that's right that's well that's what
humans think
but it means it means all beings
right well right it is the highest ideal
and so one of my points in the book is
how would we have come up with that
as really uh nearly
all the religions in the world coming up
with the same idea
isn't that interesting isn't that
mysterious
that we would from all places around the
world
come up with that idea and and realize
that is our highest calling it really
is and then of course it encompasses
all beings and not just people and it
encompasses
nature all life
and so it's it's embedded within
it the idea of himself
and love for and reverence for all life
so that's
really exciting to me it's almost like
okay
there's a key we've all been saying it
all our lives the golden rule let's
just open that door and say
hey we can really do that it's not just
a saying
you know and well yeah i guess yeah
there is a lot of violence in the world
and terrible things happening
no let's open that up and say
hey this is this really is who we are
well we never would have thought it up
and so
we're not as we know we're not predators
we're not built like predators we don't
have canine teeth we don't have claws
etc
so we are
exactly yeah so we are these
gentle beings
and um and here we are and we're ready
we're ready to create a gentle world
and finally after all these i don't know
if it was
trial and error and we just kept taking
the wrong
route or what happened but the animal
agriculture
was the big the big um
i don't know if you can't call it a
mistake but it was a
turn down a really dark road
because it led to war
it led to violence extreme
unbelievable violence between people and
also towards animals it led to all kinds
of diseases
and and pandemics and and
uh all these things and and
but here we are we are well
you're way younger than i am michael but
our the people who are live today
i'll say have
we we just were born into this
and like this is normal no this is not
normal this is not right and i think
we're beings of habits so we kind of
like every each day
whatever we're doing it just gets more
programmed into our mind like this is
normal this is natural
whatever we're hearing in the world
living in living in these houses and
living in artificial buildings and
artificial lights and all these things
it's just normal watching these
computers is normal
all these things are normal but we've
lost our true
sense of uh living and true nature
because we are meant to be putting our
hands in the soil and washing their foot
everywhere
and here we are now totally unnatural
living
trying to explain to people how it is to
live
right exactly so yeah i mean we
uh most of us went to public school and
we they feed us all the
really bad food with lots of animal
products
in it and gross cheese and
you know hamburger and all of those
things
and of course we think well that's what
people
eat everybody's eating it and that's
just a
microcosm of everything else we've been
taught
and uh well people will always be at war
and we need more and more weapons
and uh we need bigger and bigger
buildings and
more and more highways and all and and
all these things and one of one of the
biggest
um fallacies the and
one of the things that we have to figure
out as we
as we make this transition
is how how do we stop
believing in progress
because and i'm talking about economic
progress
right now and over the last
200 years maybe um
economic progress was the mark
of success we have to keep
the stock market growing we have to sell
more and more products
we have to grow more and more animals
kill more and more animals and
uh make
have more and more clothes more and more
stuff more and more of everything
and that's success that's what we grew
up
being taught and um of course my parents
um grew up in before world war
ii and i was born in 44
and so we were just getting out of the
war
and it was like okay now
we can really be successful and grow our
businesses
and then of course all the things that
came out of the war machine
including ddt and all these horrible
chemicals
was like wonderful this is great
yeah right now we can kill all the
insects
that's a great idea and so
it just went really
bad from that point on and
i i do recommend that everybody read
homo
deist uh it's kind of inspired me to
write
himself kind of because he has a very
dark
prediction of what could happen and
okay we will link it in the description
yeah
it's if you want to go down that dark
road
but it's it's interesting because he is
telling us where we're headed if we
don't become
a himself homo deus
is the elite wealthy
wanting to become gods basically
and he explains this whole idea of
progress
better than i can and uh he says
it kind of really surprised me
he said go back a few hundred years
there was no such
thing you you were a shoe
maker you couldn't make more shoes
and build your business you just made
shoes for your little community
and so you know people weren't borrowing
money
saving money and that sort of thing and
uh so he he does a really good job of
explaining that
but that is going to be a huge
thing that we're going to have to um
transition out of as we create this new
world
is this idea that everything has to keep
growing
we need more of everything and i know
that you teach that too michael so
but um yeah not growing
well right that's the whole key yeah
growing spiritually is the key to ending
growing financially and
um yeah the whole idea that um
we have to we can't just rest if we have
a business we have to get
make it bigger and bigger and bigger get
more and more employees
and have a you know more um money coming
in every year
and all that because otherwise we lose
our investors and blah blah blah
it goes on and on and that is the
rat race that were we have been in and
taught
that's how it is so we go to college
thinking oh my gosh i gotta get a job
that's
actually gonna be there i mean i gotta
get take classes
for a job that's actually gonna be there
when i get out
and um and all of that so
it's i don't have all the answers i
don't have the whole big picture
but with all of us working together
and having the forums and um
gatherings where we talk what does this
new vegan world look like first of all
it's vegan
and the reason that's critical
is because that eliminates animal
agriculture right off the bat
that eliminates tremendous amounts of
pollution
and could actually
save the world just eliminating animal
agriculture
and it's and that's so simple
just stop buying their products and so
so that part real easy to figure out
um and it's it's our big
big message that we're trying to get out
to everyone
even if you don't care if you're
listening in and
don't particularly care about animals
that's okay
but if you care about our species
surviving
we can't keep going on like this we
can't keep
ravaging the earth and burning up the
trees
and animal agriculture is a huge
part that of a huge driver of
burning the amazon forest and polluting
the waterways and the air and the oceans
so uh and i'm including fish in that
uh fish that are raised in um
in these little pools as well as the
fish that are free
in the oceans until they're caught
and so if
if if you care about our species
surviving
and doing good on this planet
and and healing the damage we've done
we have to stop animal agriculture
that sounds like david and goliath it's
not
it's just don't buy their products it's
that simple
and uh we had a
little tell a little story about tyson
they tried to come into a little town
near me called tonganoxie kansas
and they they brought their way in and
the county commission announced one day
oh guess what tyson is coming in they're
going to build over there
it's going to be a mega chicken area
with slaughterhouse right there and
trucks coming in and out and oh isn't
this great we'll have all these jobs
well the whole town of tom and oxy went
wild
and of course we will live close we went
to the rally and we convinced the
state's
uh representatives who came that this
is first of all this was done
underhandedly
without the citizens being involved and
we want them shut out they can't come
into tonganoxie
they agreed with us and that was the end
of that
and but the interesting thing was most
of the people in domination eat chickens
and so those of us who were vegan
were there and helping them but also
saying
you know if you weren't eating chickens
it would put a big dent in tyson so
um it's ultimately and i
and i i'll just point this out as a
postscript
kind of tyson actually went to the
kansas legislature
again very quietly and they got the
candace legislature to pass a law
that stated that tyson could go wherever
they wanted in kansas
and the only restriction was 100 feet
from the nearest home
so or building or whatever
and so they that is the kind of bully
that they are and that is
what we're looking at but again simple
just don't eat chickens don't eat their
products
and we can shut them down and and
with with your getting this message out
michael
and all the other people that are i'm
you know pleading with everyone who
listens in
this is the most important biggest
most powerful thing we can do right now
exactly these other things creating a
vegan world what's it going to look like
all of that we're working on it
but that's first step and it's doable
and just imagine the beauty
that would come back in the world when
animal agriculture is
gone just imagine and pharmaceutical
companies
would also start to crumble because a
big part of their business
is antibiotics and other medicines for
these poor animals
who live in these horrible conditions so
it will start crumbling the big pharma
also which is doing a lot of
very nefarious things as we know
so um yeah
so it's exciting to see the progress
what's
happening today especially as more and
more people go vegan and more and more
vegan restaurants and more and more
vegan products and more
and more um i mean just
just with this pandemic from what we've
um you know the coronavirus kova 19 just
from this alone we've seen
very positive things happen like smog
from
cities going away and animals wild
animals coming into the cities and all
that kind of thing
but at the same time we also see more
masks we also see more
uh servitude towards governments wearing
these masks and
thinking that oh you know they're lost
so we need to do it maybe people feel
scared and people feel
um you know they don't want to go
against the law because then they
you know end up whoever whatever they
would end up in jail or whatever
fear they have you know within their
minds
and so um i think your book
and many other books and uh
i just wanted to also add in uh
about the amazonian rainforest as a new
documentary coming out
from the same gentleman who created um
created a film food choices and
diet fiction called take out documentary
so you can visit it at taco i think it's
takeoutdocumentary.com
michael swarsky i believe and he's
discussing how plant-based and vegan
diets actually can
reverse the impact that we're having
especially on the amazonian rainforest
and he goes into that i haven't seen it
yet but it just came out recently
um yeah so i have even you were
discussing about
how this world will look like because
people
maybe people would want to want a vision
how can we
you know will we really get to a place
that
kind of looks like a garden of eden a
utopian world
will we ever get there people always
think in a negative
fearful way like all human humanity
we're always violent and we're always
going to be violent and
that's our nature and we're never going
to get to that world
and no but i predicted in my book uh the
lost love i predicted that
um and of course we don't have all the
answers too
because we're just trying to understand
ourselves and
the bigger picture here but i also
wrote in two of my two chapters in my
book the lost love
uh what i feel that world would look
like in the future
as we as a vegan world so what can we do
um judy what can we really do
to to create this world that you're
envisioning in your book
besides just going here yeah
yeah that's that's a big big part of it
as we were just saying
uh and a simple thing to do too i mean i
know it takes
you know learning and there's a learning
curve for sure
but as far as making the decision it's
clear beautiful loving wonderful
decision to make and you will feel
so clean and so much more compassion
in your heart so that that has
so many ramifications for for everyone
who
goes vegan not just for the earth
and all the pollution and everything in
the animals but also for your own heart
so so that's one thing but visualizing
is super important aspect
of this um because we are kind of
distant from the world that we're
um creating gandhi said that
that prayer and vision is the most
powerful force in the world when it's
coupled with love so
that's a really big part of this uh
that this change that we're making to
the world
as major as it sounds if we and that's
one reason i listed
what it's going to look like and you did
to michael
so that we can think about that and
picture it in our minds
and feel what it would feel like and
feel the joy of what it would be like to
to live in a world where our children
we don't have to track our children for
fear that they're going to be kidnapped
if they walk to school or something and
um just i mean that the world has gotten
so embedded in fear
so what we need to do is envision a
world
that is not embedded in fear that is
is well obviously vegan but
a world at peace where there is no war
and where there is no violent talk
no violent thoughts which takes work
on ourselves and uh no violence towards
others
and this is the the general picture of
it
we're capable of doing that
then i think like in my list
for example i i um talk about
how beautiful it will be as the trees
you grow
because they aren't going to be trampled
anymore by
these millions of animals and
the streams will clear up and
rivers because there's no more animal
waste
being poured into them and not to
mention also
coal ash and all the things from mining
not going in uh
and products are being used
in the animal industry and the
pharmaceutical industry so
um so it all works together as we
uh eliminate these things but to
but just to sit and contemplate
what that would look like a world where
the streams and rivers are clear
and just feel the joy of that and
feel the just the
peace of that and then
another exercise in visualization might
be
to think about uh the children at the
border
of mexico and that that
just being completely taken apart
and all those children reuniting with
their families
and finding beautiful homes
where they can live in peace and
and not have to go through what they've
been going through
and um imagine
um you know things like child
trafficking
or sex trafficking how
that would all stop and just imagine all
those children being
found and freed and
and home and loved
and and then
imagine you know also gardens
beautiful gardens and fruit trees
just you know overflowing with
wonderful food and imagine
everybody in the world having enough to
eat
right now i think it's
almost a billion people that go
hungry and uh and many die
from hunger which is is that's not right
we can't have that and of course we all
know
that it happens because of this
relentless
um chasing progress
and profits so that the
their land is taken over so they can't
grow their food
and uh and then they can't get food
uh because of political unrest and all
these things
so just i guess one way would be to pick
a problem like that
and then imagine it's gone
and just enjoy that beautiful vision
and um so that's i think a spiritual
practice that we can
use that is is extremely powerful
will and melanin i that tuttle and i
have a prayer
that we uh repeat every day at noon and
everybody that
has joined us repeats it every day at
noon
it is compassion yeah it is
noon so we can kind of see it right okay
compassion encircles the earth
for all beings everywhere
and so the more people that say that
that puts out an energy field that is
way more powerful than fear greed
violence hatred all those things
that's more powerful and we just have to
believe that
and understand that and empower
that you know when we say it know it
it's true
and that more and more people are
joining us so
it's um it's
it's something that each one of us can
take part in
this visualization the prayer um
meditating on this uh spending time
with within noticing
when we have a thought a violent thought
and
you know letting that go going that's
where where did that come from i don't
need that
violence no actually actually i just
want to chime in for a second
um i've learned from
a podcast i was listening to recently
that anytime we get start getting
negative or fearful
thoughts in our minds we say this one
little
phrase which is a beautiful thing
because we understand that it's just our
thoughts
and if you thank you for sharing
let me say when we say thank you for
sharing when we say thank you for
sharing
basically it gives a piece of love
understanding that
it's just our thoughts and understanding
also that and as human
human beings when we first came into the
world we came into well
i shouldn't say when we first came into
the world but maybe maybe when our
animal agriculture started
we kind of had this where our thoughts
were trying to protect us from whatever
was
in the world so we basically react
to whatever we see whatever we hear we
react
with thought so the thought and it's
very
um key that i tell people the thought
and the heart when coupled the thoughts
with the feeling and emotions
especially the feelings and emotions
from the heart is
can create amazing things and that's
uh i think what more vegans need to hear
is really the positivity and the hope
and
um all of that because um
especially in these dire times with
governments
and media bombarding us with
fear and violence and all this negative
messaging we kind of start to
even if it's indirect or maybe if it's
subliminal subliminal messages we start
to
kind of process that in our minds and
even as vegans even
as positive vegans we kind of start
you know going down depressed a little
bit down you know
maybe you know sometimes it feels so
good and we want to be like wow this is
amazing life that we live you know as
vegans
but at the same time we see everything
around us
we see you know a lot of a lot of
suffering a lot of violence
and i think we have to switch that that
that that vision of what we really want
we really want
a vision like a utopian world
garden of eden however you want to think
of that maybe
maybe as the bible to fix it um
yeah so i talk about how we should
really
start to change our minds think thinking
differently i love that
and you know what's so great about the
thank you for sharing
is that it is non-violent and what i was
saying was
um i don't need that thought that's
that's actually
a little negative whereas thank you for
sharing it's very positive and loving
so i'm going to use that from now on
thank you for sharing that
thank you for sharing
yeah that's really good because our
thoughts are
they have good intentions like you said
they're they come from the maybe the
reptilian part of our brain or whatever
and it they're they're trying to protect
us
and there's plenty of stuff out there to
make us scared
and so um that's like you know don't go
near that person
that's that's not six feet you can't get
that close
you know but there's many more things
than that of course
um causing fear and
and that can cause a whole cascade of
negative
fearful and even violent thoughts and
lots of times when people become afraid
they look out for a common enemy
and like we were saying earlier with uh
angry vegans they're looking for common
enemy
if i only have a common enemy then i
know where to direct my
anger and my angst but it's not about
that
and that's where we're becoming in touch
with who we really are homo ohio
the loving being the non the being of
non-harm
is because we're uh realizing
that we're capable of living that way
and if once everybody's living that way
and we're you know you're helping lead
the way michael
to help people understand how to do that
how we do that it sounds so outlandish
i mean i can remember when i was a kid
talking about things like this
and my dad would call me fuzzy-headed
and or or empty-headed or impr
it's totally impractical you know how
can you make the world better
you know so but hey
i think everybody who's listening in
that's why you're here
you've been called and but it's a great
thing it's a
it's a it's a thing of grace
to be called to this but yeah what
what you're saying michael about the
thoughts is incredibly important because
we can we can go down some very dark
roads with these thoughts about
all the stuff that's going on and it's
and of course we have to be very
vigilant
you know to not get caught into the
system
because we our job is to create a whole
new system
or maybe a system is not even a very
good word
a heaven on earth a paradise
we can do it we really can
and uh we just need enough of us to lead
the way
right so yeah so what are um
some things that like you and i and
other
vegans and people in the realm of
veganism
what can they do besides
i mean like people always ask me like
well mike what can i do i mean i'm just
one person and
i mean i share veganism with as many
people as i can what else can i do i
mean we don't have time we have six
years do you think we're really going to
get to that world
that utopian move
yeah that's that's the thought that
leads
to despair that's true and i i think
i think that um it may sound a little
bit
like magical thinking but
it's based on
centuries and centuries of wise
gurus teachers who have been teaching
this including jesus who was very likely
to begin
non-violent and living in community
communal with communalism um
according to a number of different books
that have done a lot of deep research
and of course
also pythagoras and it goes way back
um all had this vision all
knew we were capable of this
and so uh we
have to we have to say
to those negative thoughts we'll never
get there
2026 is coming up too soon i didn't see
how we can do this there's only one of
me
say thank you for sharing like you like
who you taught us
to those thoughts however this is what
we're creating
and i am busy creating it in the best
way i can
now many people have full-time jobs
and kids to take care of and parents to
take care of and
all of that and don't have time to do a
lot of activism
and now with the lockdowns
that's really put uh a lockdown
on our in-person activism so
if you have time listen in on these zoom
calls
get involved find a group that
is doing something and and there are
local groups who are getting together
in person and and working
to change things and there are animal
sanctuaries
there's an increasing number of animal
sanctuaries that
need our help and they are real keys
because people can go to them
and they may be
being careful now not having as many
events but
i believe most animal centers are having
a few
in-person events and to take somebody
there is a real heart opener
for a lot of people to go to those and
plus it's a it's such a hopeful thing to
see that these animals have
have survived uh animal agriculture and
are now living in good homes and
uh so that's a real encouraging but
um i think it's also important to
um to kind of
strengthen yourself in whatever way that
works whether it's uh
through your your faith uh or
your meditation whatever it may be your
readings
um like take not hans stuff he
is vegan and we'll tuttle stuff lots of
great stuff out there to uh help
strengthen us as we're
going through this transition because
it's i mean we can't
say it's not difficult because it is
i mean there's temptation constantly
to get us off track and say no we can't
do this
it's too hard so
yeah i i i very much agree and i um
i tell people all the time you know like
let's keep our thoughts
pure let's keep our thoughts positive
and uh let's not
be bombarded and focus on
you know what the governments and
politics paul
you know involved in politics and and
uh what the mainstream mass media's you
know
puts all out to us but let's focus on
what we really want to
build what we really want to envision
like we envision something we envision
the
the end result the goal of the like
like when we're racing for example we're
doing uh some kind of marathon
we envision okay i want to finish this
race and i want to get to the finish
line and that's where we want to
put our thoughts in our in our hearts
basically at that thought
the more uh people that envision
a peaceful world and vision you know the
garden of eden however you want to
think about that we can really get there
because the more we
focus on negative negative
side of life the negative side of
society
the more is going to pull us back to
that
right yeah it's the law of attraction
right you know if we put out a lot of
negative energy
and that attracts more negative energy
into our lives
and the reverse is also true
but yeah it creates an energy field
when when millions of us are imagining
this beautiful new world that we're
creating
and now i think and even though
technology
is problematic
in many ways at this point
in our transition i'm sorry you broke
you broke up there
for a moment oh i was i was saying even
though
um technology is problematic
in some ways right now as
in this part of our transition we really
need it
to stay together and to share
these wonderful ideas and to share
the videos the wonderful videos and um
and well gosh the youtubes everything
that are out there to help people really
understand that we can do this and that
we're not alone
there really are millions of us and
we're getting close to a billion and
we're getting
very close to a tipping point and we may
already be there
and we just don't know it yet but we're
certainly seeing a lot of signs
of having reached the tipping point
and going on but they're in the dark
forces
whatever they are the power leak um
they're they're pretty scared right now
because they do see the progress we're
making
and that we're getting closer to a vegan
world
and that's very threatening to them and
so i think that's
partly what we're seeing in the chaos in
the world right now
with uh with them you know wanting to
dumb everybody down fear everybody down
get people in such a state of fear that
they can't think straight
and so we really have to be
careful you know if we're in a situation
where
a mask is required
we have to decide you know um
is this um
something that i want to do
in order just to make other people feel
safe
or is this an opportunity where i could
educate people
about being vigilant
and understanding
what is an overreach of the government
and what isn't
and i think uh it behooves
all of us to understand learn about that
as much as we can there's a lot of
confusion
and misinformation but we do need to
learn about it
but then we need to take breaks really
take breaks
and get back to our place with no fear
and um and
calm inner peace and know
okay we're okay we're gonna be fine we
don't can't picture exactly how it's
gonna work out
but um we can do this
we can do this and i think that one
thing that i
kind of uh think is
maybe comforting is that the
power elite do seem to be running scared
at this point and i think it's because
of all the progress we've made
in creating a vegan world and so now's
not the time to stop
this is the time to keep going and
yeah yeah and understand hey
we are getting there so let's go for it
excellent excellent we're coming up uh
about an
hour and a half time and i could spend
literally hours talking to you because i
just
love the discussion that we're having
here and people could
definitely have uh you know
vital information that everybody needs
really to
become better human beings i mean we all
know in our hearts that
you just don't want to do evil things
even though we do it even though we do
it innately within us
we really don't want to like harm and
steal and kill and
any any any life form and so
i tend to really um
the times of despair or times of
like where we are right now in 2020
um there being so many facets of society
which is like breaking apart
falling apart governments economy
uh black lives movement
this pandemic coronavirus all this kind
of stuff put together and so many
different varying opinions and
and thoughts and misinformation and so
forth
and even vegans fighting one another
you know before this this even happened
this uh coronavirus even happened um
we were more more or less real peaceful
you know just arguing on
what tactic is better than which tactic
is the best you know to
to employ and now it's like no the masks
you gotta wear a mask and it's like
mainly the mask situation which is
really a big thing
and um i feel like we should just
focus on the beauty and the love and
what we both of us talk about in our
books
and really focus on that even though we
have to understand the deeper
underlying situation of our society
realize that and even so many people
have said this in the past but basically
uh not to try to change us
the obsolete system but to create a new
one
a completely new one and see how that
goes
but definitely the first step is to get
as many people as we can
going vegan and teaching also vegans how
to thrive and how to
live in this world with other non-vegans
and
free vegans and i go from there so
i want to also just uh
go off topic for a moment and say that
this
episode and all my work has been
sponsored by evolution diet pet food
so i really thank eric and lynn wiseman
for supporting my work and for being
there
you know being the compassionate people
they are and providing
vegan pet food for their dogs people dog
cats and
other companion animals yeah so pet food
shop
petfoodshop.com you can get pets there
reasonably priced and they even have i
think it's the first
ever pet food that is organic now so
they have an organic line of pet food
that came out a couple years ago
and i'm so thankful to them for doing
all they're doing so eric and lynn
wiseman
petfoodshop.com and before we leave i
just want to say thank you so much to
all the work that you're doing
and everybody else that's doing in the
world today because um
the ones that are starting to reawaken
to their natural
way of living and ones that are going
vegan
and the ones that are already vegan
sharing the message to the world i want
to thank you all
for doing what you're doing today
because without you
um it would be only us i mean i mean
it's all of us basically and so
uh i thank everyone for doing their part
and i thank you also judy is there any
last
things that you want to say to the world
to everyone
and to the world yes well just thank you
so much for listening in
and uh definitely follow michael and all
that he's doing
um and keep keep your positive
positivity your faith in yourself and
faith in
our ability to become homo and himself
we can do this we should not
get overly distracted by all these other
things that are happening
and just have this beautiful beautiful
vision we're close
so hang on and be peace
be at peace be loved and thank you for
listening
thank you michael for having me on
for the wonderful message in the
discussion today
don't forget to get judy's books uh you
wrote you've written even uh just the
last uh mention you've written even more
books right
um yeah
the missing piece aren't about our
kinship within i'm a little seattle
do you have the cover of each other do
you have the books with you
yeah i do this is
um the missing piece
and this is what hama lahimsa looks like
wow that's my daughter when she was
really little
we rescued a robin
and this is peace peace to all beings
better than my old old copy
i got a lantern i did that one
i remember i had an old coffee as well
and mine was bending and uh
and then eventually i became a
minimalist and i had only two backpacks
and i had to
downsize i gave all my books away
to people and now i have everything
everything digital
on my phone so again once again uh
thank you judy carmen for being here and
for everybody for attending and without
uh
having this broadcast too long um i will
close it here
so thank you thank you judy again and
thank you thank you
we'll watch this at any time and again
if you want to check out judy's books
it's peacetoallbeings.com
right and critical circles of
compassion.org and we are
interconnected.com as well the radio
link is right there
so if you click on that you'll be able
to find all the rest of
the shows on there and this has been
brought to you by freeconferencecall.com
i'm very
grateful to them providing this for free
so you can have like up to a thousand
people on this call so i'm really really
grateful to them and um
yeah so thank you all and i wish you the
best week and yeah take care everybody
bye
