[MUSIC]
>> WELCOME.
I'M FATHER MITCH PACWA AND
WELCOME TO EWTN LIVE.
WE'RE BRINGING YOU GUESTS FROM
ALL OVER THE WORLD, WHICH HAS
GOTTEN EASIER SINCE WE USE THESE
TECHNICAL THINGS, SKYPE AND ALL
OF THAT STUFF.
TONIGHT, WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE
VERY IMPORTANT MINISTRY OF
EXORCISM IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
WHEN AND WHY IT IS NEEDED, AND
WHO IS ALLOWED TO DO IT.
WE'LL ALSO DISCUSS THE
EXPERIENCES OF ONE OF THE MOST
PRACTICED EXORCISTS IN THE
CHURCH, FATHER GABRIELE AMORTH.
BEFORE WE DO THAT, LET US FIRST
OF ALL HEAR FROM HERE IN
IRONDALE, ALABAMA, MR. PETER
GAGNON WHO IS EWTN'S VICE
PRESIDENT FOR PROGRAMMING AND
PROMOTIONS.
PETER, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE NEW
THINGS WE HAVE COMING UP?
>> SO, WE CHANGE OUR GRIDS
AROUND A COUPLE OF TIMES A YEAR,
OUR PROGRAMMING GRIDS AND OUR
DAILY LINEUP.
NEXT WEEK, WE WILL BEGIN
SIGNIFICANT CHANGES.
SO, WOMEN OF GRACE WITH JOHNETTE
MONDAY TO FRIDAY. 1:00 P.M.
SHE WAS EARLIER IN THE DAY AND
NOW WILL BE MOVING TO 1:00 P.M.
ON FRIDAYS HER SHOW WILL BE A
LIVE ONE-HOUR CALL-IN SHOW.
SO OUR VIEWERS CAN INTERACT WITH
JOHNETTE ON THAT PROGRAM.
>> NICE.
>> AND AT HOME WITH JIM AND JOY
IS MOVING TO 1:30 ON MONDAY,
WEDNESDAY AND THURSDAY.
AND THEN WE HAVE A SAINT STRIP,
WHERE WE HAVE A DIFFERENT SERIES
ON A SAINT MONDAY TO FRIDAYING
THROUGH THE WEEK.
THAT'S MOVING TO 11:30.
>> 11:30 A.M. OR P.M.?
>> A.M.
THESE ARE ALL EASTERN TIMES THAT
I'M TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW.
MOTHER TERESA IS ONE OF THEM,
AND P POPE JOHN PAUL II.
AND THEN A NEW SERIES DEBUTING.
IT IS GOD'S BLUEPRINT FOR A HOLY
LIFE.
THEY GO THROUGH THE TEN
COMMANDMENTS AND HOW TO HAVE A
HAPPY LIFE IS TO LIVE OUT THE
COMMANDMENTS AND HOW THE CHURCH
GUIDES US IN HELPING US TO LIVE
OUT THE COMMANDMENTS.
THAT SON FRIDAYS AT 5 P.M.
EASTERN.
IT IS BEGINNING NEXT WEEK WITH
THE NEW PROGRAMMING GRID.
GO TO EWTN.COM AND CLICK ON THE
SCHEDULE TO TELL THEM THE
SCHEDULE AND IT WILL SHOW UP
WHERE THE PROGRAMS AIR IN THEIR
AREAS OF THE WORLD.
WE ALSO HAVE A NEW SERIES WE
HAVE BEEN BUILDING, NEW EPISODES
OF DOCTRINES OF THE CHURCH.
WE HAD SOME ON CATHERINE OF
SIENA AND THE NEXT WILL BE ON
SAINT AUGUSTINE.
WE HAD SOME NEAT FOOTAGE SHOT OF
SAINT AUGUSTINE AND HIS LIFE
STORY THAT WILL BE A PART OF
THAT.
THIS IS A TEASER FOR PEOPLE TO
SEE WHAT'S COMING UP SOMETIME
AFTER THE FIRST OF THE YEAR WITH
THE NEW EPIE SEWED OF DOCTRINES
OF THE CHURCH.
SOME OF THE THINGS WE WANT TO
HIGHLIGHT.
>> I SAW A LITTLE SHOT OF THAT
CLIP AND LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE
SHOOTING BOWS AND ARROWS.
I LIKE IT ALREADY.
>> IT WAS ALL SHOT IN EUROPE AND
WITH VARIOUS ACTORS AND REALLY
HIGH LEVEL PRODUCTION SO IT
HELPS TO TELL THE STORY OF THE
DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH.
>> WONDERFUL.
THANK YOU FOR THAT UPDATE.
WE WILL BE BACK IN A COUPLE OF
MINUTES WITH TONIGHT'S GUEST.
SO PLEASE STAY WITH BACK.
OUR GUEST TONIGHT IS THE EDITOR
OF THE POPULAR WEBSITE
CATHOLICEXCHANGE.COM.
THIS WEBSITE USES SOCIAL MEDIAS
TO SPREAD THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST
AROUND THE WORLD.
HE'S CURRENTLY WORKING WITH
SOPHIA INSTITUTE PRESS AS THE
SPOKESPERSON FOR A BRAND NEW
BOOK, WHICH SHEDS LIGHT ON THE
CHURCH'S MINISTRY OF EXORCISM.
ALSO, DISCUSSES THE METHODS USED
BY PROBABLY THE MOST WELL-KNOWN
EXORCIST OF OUR TIME, FATHER
GABRIELE AMORTH.
THE BOOK IS CALLED, "THE DEVIL
IS AFRAID OF ME" -- THE THE LIFE
AND WORK OF THE WORLD'S MOST
POPULAR EXORCIST.
SO, PLEASE WELCOME MR. MICHAEL
J. LICHENS.
HOW ARE YOU?
>> FE.IT.IT'S
>> IT IS GREAT TO BE HERE AND
HOPE YOU ARE DOING WELL IN
ALABAMA.
>> YOU ARE UP AND OUT IN THE
GREAT STATE OF COLORADO, DENVER.
IT'S A GREAT CAPITAL.
BEAUTIFUL AREA OUT THERE.
>> IT'S VERY LOVELY.
>> YEAH.
NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE
NEVER DONE AN EXORCISM, HAVE
YOU?
>> I HAVE NEVER PERFORMED AN
EXORCISM.
I WOULD NOT BE QUALIFIED TO DO
SO.
>> OKAY.
SO WHY ARE YOU THE ONE WE'RE
TALKING TO?
>> WE'RE TALKING TO ME TODAY
BECAUSE REALLY -- THE BIG REASON
AS I WAS JOKING WITH YOU BEFORE
THE SHOW, HE IS DEAD AND WHEN HE
WAS ALIVE HE COULDN'T SPEAK
ENGLISH.
I HAVE TAKEN AN INTEREST IN
FATHER AMORTH FOR A DECADE NOW.
I FIND HIM INSPIRING AND A
FASCINATING CHARACTER IN THE
MODERN CATHOLIC CHURCH.
ALMOST LIKE HE IS A MEDIEVAL
PROPHET.
LIKE YOU DON'T EXPECT THIS KIND
OF FIGURE IN THE 21ST CENTURY.
>> WHAT EXACTLY WAS SO
UNEXPECTED ABOUT HIM?
>> I THINK WHAT WAS SO
UNEXPECTED IS HOW
STRAIGHTFORWARD HE IS AND HOW
UNAFRAID HE IS.
WHEN YOU READ WHY HE SEEMS SO
UNAFRAID AT TIMES -- THERE ARE
TIMES HE'S NERVOUS OR BEEN
CAUGHT OFF GUARD DURING AN
EXORCISM BUT HE HAD SUCH
COMPLETE TRUST IN MARY AND THE
SAINTS ON HIS SIDE BUT HE
COULDN'T HELP BUT BE CONFIDENT
AND SURE HE WAS GOING TO HELP
PEOPLE AND CONQUER THE EVIL THAT
WAS VEXING THEM.
>> YEAH, I THINK -- ONE OF THE
VERY STRIKING ELEMENTS OF FATHER
AMORTH'S LIFE IS THAT HE REALLY
PERCEIVED THAT THE MODERN WORLD
IS IN A SPIRITUAL CRISIS.
THAT IT'S NOT ONLY RELATED TO A
LOSS OF FAITH BUT IT'S ALSO A
STRSTRUGGLE WITH EVIL, AND THERE
ARE FORCES OF THE DEMONIC THAT
HAVE BEEN COMPETING, NOT ONLY IN
THE 2 21st 21, THE 20 AND 21STY
HAVE THAT AND SOME WAYS EARLIER.
THE RISE OF CULTISM BACK IN THE
LATE 1840s AND EARLY 1850s.
IT SWINGS UP AND DOWN WITH THE
MOVEMENTS, LIKE NATIONALLITICAL-
SOCIALISM, COMMUNISM THAT WERE
VERY MUCH DEATH DEALING AND
DESTRUCTIVE OF CULTURE AND
SOCIETY.
THIS IS A GREAT DEAL OF EVIL.
HE FACED UP TO THAT SIDE OF WHAT
WAS GOING ON.
>> HE ABSOLUTELY DID.
HE WORKED UNTIL HE DIED, QUITE
LITERALLY, FOR ALMOST, ODDLY
ENOUGH HE DIED IN 2016 AT 91 AND
NEVER STOPPED HELPING PEOPLE.
EVEN IN HIS OLD AGE, HE SAID HE
WOULD SEE PEOPLE, ABOUT 11
PEOPLE A DAY FOR EXORCISMS.
IT USED TO BE MORE BUT EVEN IN
HIS OLD AGE, IT WAS LIKE I CAN
SEE 11 PEOPLE A DAY, BUT I CAN'T
IMAGINE.
>> NO.
THAT'S QUITE A BIT.
NOW, WHAT WAS IT THAT GOT FATHER
AMORTH INTO EXORCISM IN THE
FIRST PLACE?
WHY DID HE ENTER THIS MINISTRY?
>> HE ENTERED THE MINISTRY
THROUGH HIS MENTOR, FATHER
AMONTE.
A MAN WAS FAMOUSLY VEXED BY A
DEVIL AND HE LEARNED HOW TO PRAY
AGAINST EVIL AND HOW TO RESIST
EVIL.
SOMETIMES PHYSICALLY, WHEN HE
WAS A YOUNG MAN HE PARTICIPATED
IN THE ITALIAN CIVIL WARS TO TRY
TO FREE HIS PEOPLE.
SOMETIMES I THINK IT WAS A THING
INSIDE OF HIM THAT WAS GOING TO
CONTINUE ON AND FATHER SAW THAT
AND BROUGHT HIM TO THE WORK AS
AN EXORCIST.
>> I THINK THAT KIND OF CIVIL
WAR IS A PRETTY FAIR IMAGE FOR
THE SPIRITUAL WAR.
THE EVIL SPIRITS HAVE REBELLED
ONGOD.
THEY ARE HIS CREATURES BUT
REBELLED AGAINST HIM.
AND THEY HATE GOD.
THEY HATE THE OTHER ANGELS.
THEY HATE US, AND THEY HATE EACH
OTHER.
THERE'S NOBODY THAT THEY LOVE.
THAT'S SOMETHING IMPOSSIBLE FOR
THE DEMONIC.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
IN FACT, FATHER AMORTH IN ONE OF
HIS PREVIOUS BOOKS TALKS ABOUT
THAT WE WILL BE JUDGED AT THE
END OF OUR LIVES BY LOVE.
AND THOSE IN HELL HE FOUND THE
DEMONIC DO NOT UNDERSTAND LOVE.
SO MUCH SO THE VIRGIN MARY
TERRIFIES THEM BECAUSE SHE IS
ALMOST THE EXACT OPPOSITE IN
EVERY WAY, SHE LOVES EVERYONE.
SHE IS OBEDIENT, AND SHE IS PURE
WHEREAS THEY ARE TOUCHED BY SIN
AND TRY TO LEAD OTHERS TO SIN.
>> THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT POINT
TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT EVIL.
SO, HE WAS CHOSEN BY FATHER
KENDIDO, BUT ANOTHER PRIEST
CAN'T JUST SAY TO ANOTHER PRIEST
WHY DON'T YOU GO DO SOME
EXORCISM.
PUT A SHINGLE OUT THERE AND
START EXORCISING PEOPLE.
>> IF ONLY.
OF COURSE, HE HAD TO GO THROUGH
THE PROCESS OF TAKING COURSES,
WHICH ARE NOW EASIER THROUGH THE
INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
EXORCISTS AND HE HAD TO GET
PERMISSION FROM HIS BISHOP OF --
HE E EVENTUALLY MOVED TO ROME BT
THIS IS NOT WHERE HE SAID I WANT
TO BE A PLUMBER OR CHANGE DEMONS
OUT OF PEOPLE'S LIVES.
IT HAD TO GO THROUGH THE
PROCESS.
IT WAS A SIX OR SEVEN YEAR
PROCESS OF TRAINING UNDER FATHER
KENDIDO'S MENTORSHIP BEFORE HE
WAS ALLOWED TO DO HIS FIRST
EXORCISM AND HE STARTED HIS
FIRST EXORCISM WITH A BANG.
>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
>> WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS WHEN
HE WAS PERFORMING THE EXORCISM,
THE FIRST THING THAT WEIRDED HIM
OUT WAS THE YOUNG MAN THAT WAS
POSSESSED, WHICH FATHER AMORTH
DESCRIBES AS VERY THIN AND OF A
PEASANT LIFE, BUT HEAD A
TRANSLATOR AND FATHER AMORTH
INQUIRES WHY DO I NEED A
TRANSLATOR.
THE TRANSLATOR SAID WHEN THE
YOUNG MAN IS TAKEN BY THE DEVIL
A LOT OF THE CURSES ARE IN
ENGLISH, WHICH FATHER AMORTH
DIDN'T SPEAK.
SO THE TRANSLATOR WAS THERE.
AND ALMOST IMMEDIATELY WHEN HE
APPLIES THE HOLY WATER AND THE
PRAYER, THE YOUNG MAN STARTS TO
TWIST HIS BODY.
ICE CRYSTALS FORM IN THE WINDOWS
AND YOU CAN FEEL THE TEMPERATURE
DROP AND A STUFFINESS IN THE
ROOM AND FATHER AMORTH GETS TO
THE PART OF THE EXORCISM WHERE
HE IS COMMANDING THE DEMON, AND
WHEN HE ASKED THE DEMON HIS NAME
HE SIMPLY SAYS, I AM LUCIFER AND
FATHER AMORTH DIDN'T NEED A
TRANSLATOR BECAUSE HE KNEW
EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS FACING THEN.
>> THIS IS SOMETHING THAT
CORRESPONDS TO THE IMAGES IN
DANTE'S INFERNO THAT AT THE
DEEPEST LEVELS OF HELL IT'S NOT
SO MUCH FIRE BUT IT IS THE
ABSOLUTE COLD.
>> IT'S ABSOLUTE COLD.
I REMEMBER FROM DANTE, I THOUGHT
THE IMAGE OF THEM STUCK IN
SPACES -- BECAUSE WE'RE CALLED
TO LOVE, WHICH USUALLY MEANS
SOME FORM OF CONVERSION OR
PILGRIMAGE THROUGHOUT OUR
SPIRITUAL LIFE, WHEREAS THESE
GUYS WERE STUCK AND FROZEN IN
THEIR HATRED.
I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT
CONNECTION BEFORE BUT THAT IS A
REALLY GOOD POINT.
>> YEAH.
THIS IS SOMETHING I THINK WE
NEED TO BRING UP.
YOU KNOW, NOT ANY PRIEST, NOR
LAYMAN IS ABLE TO JUST TO HANG
OUT A SHINGLE EXORCISM, FIVE FIE
CENTS.
THIS IS NOTHING ANYTHING YOU CAN
DO.
YOU CAN'T CHARGE ANY MONEY FOR
IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
WHAT IS NECESSARY FOR A PRIEST
TO BE ABLE TO BECOME AN
EXORCIST?
LET ME JUST BEGIN THIS.
THERE'S A NEW SET OF GUIDELINES
THAT HAVE JUST COME OUT CALLED
THE GUIDELINES FOR THE MINISTRY
OF EXORCISM: IN LIGHT OF THE
CURRENT RITUAL.
IN CHAPTER 9 -- THIS CAME OUT IN
MAY OF 2020.
IN CHAPTER 9 IT SAYS -- LET ME
JUST POINT THIS OUT.
"IN PARTICULAR, THE BISHOP WHO
GRANTS THE PRIEST EXORCIST THE
LICENSE TO EXORCISE MUST VERIFY
THAT HE IS ADORNED WITH PIETY,
SCIENCE, PRUDENCE, INTEGRITY OF
LIFE AND THAT HE HAS A SPECIFIC
PREPARATION THAT MAKES HIM
SUITABLE FOR THIS DELICATE
SERVICE."
SO, THAT'S THE STATEMENT.
NOW, WHEN THEY SAY -- LET'S TAKE
A LOOK AT THAT.
IT MENTIONS PIETY.
>> YES.
>> LET'S BEGIN THERE.
WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT?
>> I THINK PARTICULARLY LOOKING
AT THE LIFE OF FATHER AMORTH, HE
RENEWED HIS MARYANN
CONCENTRATION DAILY, HE WAS A
MAN OF CONSTANT TRAIL.
AT THE END OF "THE DEVIL IS
AFRAID OF ME," WE PROVIDE THE
MOST USED PRAYERS HE USED FOR
LIBERATION AND THAT IS IMPORTANT
BECAUSE THE SAME REASON IF YOU
ARE GOING TO BE A BOXER YOU NEED
TO TRAIN EVERY DAY.
YOU NEED TO GO TO THE GYM.
YOU HAVE TO JUMP ROPE.
YOU HAVE TO PUT ON THE GLOVES
AND SPAR A LITTLE.
YOU CAN'T JUST SAY I FEEL LIKE
BEING A BOXER AND GOING ONE ON
ONE WITH MIKE TYSON, OR IF YOU
DO YOU ARE NOT LIVING YOUR LIFE
WELL AND PLEASE STOP.
THAT'S THE SAME WITH EXORCISM.
THAT PREPARATION, PIETY AND
PRAYE IS WHAT GIVES US THE
STRENGTH TO ENDURE BEING FACE TO
FACE WITH REAL, TRUE EVIL.
>> IT CANNOT BE EMPHASIZED
ENOUGH THAT THE EXORCIST HAS TO
BE IN A VERY DEEP AND PROFOUND
PERSONAL UNION WITH JESUS
CHRIST.
HE NEEDS TO HAVE THAT LIVELY
RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR SAVIOR
JESUS.
THAT INCLUDES HIS PRAYER LIFE,
MASS, FREQUENT CONFESSION, AND,
YOU KNOW A GOOD SENSE OF WHO OUR
LORD IS.
THE SECOND THING THEY MENTION IS
SCIENCE.
WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT SCIENCE, IN
LATIN, IT USUALLY REFERS TO
KNOWLEDGE.
NOT NECESSARILY THE PHYSICAL
SCIENCES, BUT WHAT KIND OF
KNOWLEDGE OR SCIENCE IS
ESPECIALLY USEFUL IN THE
EXORCIST'S MINISTRY?
>> WELL, FATHER AMORTH, AS MANY
EXORCISTS DO, HE CONSULTED
PSYCHIATRISTS, AS WELL AS
DOCTORS AND WOULD OFTEN MEET
WITH PATIENTS,ING ALONG WITH THE
PHYSICIAN.
THIS IS BECAUSE IN FATHER
AMORTH'S ESTIMATION, THERE MIGHT
BE SOMETHING PSYCHIATRICALLY
GOING ON WITH THE PERSON THAT
MAY CAUSE IT OR MAY HAVE A
MENTAL ILLNESS AND DEMONIC
POSSESSION AND NEED THE HELP OF
BOTH PROFESSIONALS TO GO THROUGH
THIS.
>> THEY COULD ALSO HAVE A
PHYSICAL ILLNESS.
>> EXACTLY.
IN THE CHURCH, ALWAYS INSISTS
THAT BEFORE AN EXORCISM CAN BE
DONE, EVERYBODY INVOLVED,
PSYCHIATRISTS, MEDICAL DOCTOR
AND THE PRIEST, MAYBE OTHERS
THAT ARE THERE, SOCIAL WORKERS.
THEY HAVE TO EXHAUST THE NATURAL
EXPLANATIONS FOR AN EXORCISM
BEFORE THEY CAN START THE
SUPERNATURAL.
YOU HAVE TO FIND OUT -- YOUR
FIRST GO-TO EXPLANATION IS
NATURAL.
SOME SORT OF MENTAL DISORDER,
PHYSICAL DISORDER OR SOMETHING
ELSE.
YOU DON'T EASILY JUMP TO THE
CONCLUSION THAT IT IS
POSSESSION.
THAT IS VERY SERIOUS.
YOU CAN'T BE CARELESS ABOUT
THIS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
ALSO, IF THERE IS A NEED FOR
HEALING ON THE PHYSICAL REALM,
FATHER AMORTH FOUND IF THEY
COULD GET THAT ADDRESSED THERE
COULD BE MORE DISCERNMENT IF
THERE WAS DEMONIC ISSUES GOING
ON.
>> SURE.
THERE ALSO HAS TO BE PRUDENCE.
THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY A VERY
HIGHLY VALUED VIRTUE IN THE
PRESENT TIME.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PRUDENCE,
WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?
>> I THINK PRUDENCE HERE IS --
WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT,
MAKING SURE WE LOOK FOR THE
NATURAL EXPLANATION WHEN WE ARE
APPROACHING SOMETHING AS INSANE
AND AS INTENSE AS THIS KIND OF
EVIL.
BUT I THINK THE PRUDENCE ALSO
THAT WE NEED WITH ANYTHING THAT
WE ARE IN SHORT SUPPLY OF IS THE
PRUDENCE TO TELL TRUTH FROM
FICTION AND ALSO LOVE FROM
THINGS THAT ARE ANTI- LOVE.
THAT'S A HARD THING TO DO IN OUR
CONFUSED SOCIETY, AND THAT'S WHY
A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL TURN TO
WHAT MIGHT BE INVITATIONS TO THE
DEMONIC.
>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE CALL
DOWN HERE IN ALABAMA, WALKIN'
AROUND SENSE.
YOU KNOW HOW TO GET AROUND WITH
YOUR LIFE AND YOU JUST DEAL WITH
SOME OF THE PRACTICALITIES
FIRST.
BUT ALSO, THAT THE EXORCIST
NEEDS INTEGRITY OF LIFE.
THIS IS REFERRING TO MORAL
INTEGRITY.
THAT'S ANOTHER ELEMENT THAT THEY
SAY IS NECESSARY.
>> THEY DO.
THERE'S A COUPLE OF REASONS I'VE
LEARNED ABOUT THIS.
FOR ONE, YOU NEED THE PERSON WHO
IS RECEIVING THE EXORCISM TO
TRUST AND KNOW YOU ARE LOOKING
OUT FOR THEM.
>> UH-HUH.
>> BUT ALSO, IN TERMS OF MORAL
INTEGRITY, THIS NEVER HAPPENED
TO FATHER AMORTH BUT HE KNOWS OF
OTHER EXORCISTS WHERE A DEMON
WILL TRY TO -- IT IS TAUNTING,
SO THE PRIEST WILL BRING UP
SECRET SINS AND THOUGHTS THAT
NEVER TOLD TO ANYONE AS A WAY TO
GET THEM TO STOP.
AND THAT COULD BE -- THAT'S ONE
OF THE REASONS WHY HE RECOMMENDS
FREQUENT CONFESSION FOR PRIESTS
AND LAYMEN.
>> I REMEMBER IN A COURSE THAT I
TOOK, A YOUNG PRIEST WAS DOING A
CASE OF EXORCISM AND THE SPIRIT
SPOKE OUT LOUD A SIN THAT HE HAD
COMMITTED THAT NOBODY AROUND HAD
KNOWN.
IT IS SO DEMORALIZED THE PRIEST
HE HAD TO GO FOR PSYCHOLOGICAL
HELP AFTERWARDS.
SO, AGAIN, YOU DON'T JUMP INTO
THIS KIND OF THING EASILY.
IN FACT, ONE OF THE EXPECTATIONS
IS THAT A PRIEST MAKE A GENERAL
CONFESSION AND BRING UP THINGS
OF THE PAST BECAUSE THE EVIL
SPIRIT -- AS A MATTER OF FACT,
IT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE LINES
IN REVELATION 12.
WHERE THE EVIL ONE IS SPOKEN OF
AS THE ACCUSER OF OUR BRETHREN.
HE'S AN ACCUSE -- AND THE WORD
THEY USE -- CATEGORZE FROM IT.
BUT IT MEANS TO ACCUSE.
THIS IS -- I KNOW WHAT YOU DID.
YOU DID IT, DIDN'T YOU?
DIDN'T YOU?
AND A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE HEAR
THAT VOICE.
I HEAR FOLKS IN THE SECULAR
WORLD SOMETIMES SAY, OH, YEAH,
I'M RIDDEN WITH CATHOLIC GUILT.
THEY BLAME THE CHURCH FOR THIS
GUILT.
WHEREAS THE VOICE THAT THEY ARE
OFTEN TIMES HEARING IS A VOICE
FROM THE DEMON.
BECAUSE THAT IS HIS NATURE.
THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTS US OF
SIN, AND THE WORD ALSO MEANS TO
CONVINCE US OF SIN, SO THAT WE
KNOW, THIS IS MY FAULT.
I HAVE TO REPENT.
THE EVIL SPIRIT JUST ACCUSES US
AND HOLDS -- TRIES TO MAINTAIN
US IN THAT GUILT.
THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE THAT I
SEE.
>> THAT'S A REALLY GREAT WAY TO
PUT IT BETWEEN THE ACCUSER AND
THE CONVICTING.
AS I SAID, FATHER AMORTH NEVER
EXPERIENCED THAT HIMSELF
DIRECTLY BUT HE OFTEN HEARD
OTHER PRIESTS TALK ABOUT THAT AS
A THING THAT WOULD TRIP THEM UP.
I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW
DEMORALIZING THAT CAN BE.
>> SURE, SURE.
IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, GETTING
INTO "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE OR
SOMETHING.
YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.
AT LEAST -- MAYBE THEY DO --
SOME PEOPLE, I CAN'T IMAGINE.
BUT I'D JUST AS SOON STAY OUT OF
THAT FOOLISHNESS.
AT ANY RATE, THESE ARE SPECIFIC
QUALIFICATIONS.
ARE THERE OTHER ELEMENTS OF THE
QUALIFICATIONS OF BEING AN
EXORCIST THAT YOU WOULD MENTION
FROM YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF FATHER
AMORTH'S BOOKS?
>> WELL, WE MENTIONED PIETY AND
PERSONAL -- HAVING A PRAYER
LIFE, THE SAKERETS, FATHER
AMORTH SAID ARE THE MOST
ADVANTAGEOUS TO KEEP YOU AWAY
FROM SPIRITS AND CURSES.
HE ALSO RECOMMENDED HIGHLY TO
HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH MARY,
TO INCLUDE HER IN YOUR PRAYERS,
ASK HER FOR HELP.
HE RENEWED HIS CONSECRATION
DAILY AND ALSO THE ARCHANGELS.
SO HAVING THE RELATIONSHIP WITH
MARY AND THE ARCHANGELS IS A
DEEP QUALIFICATIONS BECAUSE THAT
IS MORE PEOPLE IN YOUR CORNER.
>> ONCE AGAIN, WHEN WE GO TO
SACRED SCRIPTURE, IN REVELATION
12, THE -- AFTER THE EVIL ONE,
SATAN, FAILS TO DESTROY JESUS,
AND THEN HE DOES BATTLE WITH THE
ANGELS THAT ARE ON THE SIDE OF
SAINT MICHAEL AND GOD, THEN HE
GOES AFTER THE WOMEN, OUR LADY.
SO THAT KIND OF SPIRITUAL
WARFARE BETWEEN THE DEVIL VERSUS
THE BLESSED MOTHER AND THE
ANGELS AND SAINTS IS VERY MUCH A
PART OF REVELATION.
AND WE NEED TO SEE WE ARE NOT
MORE INTELLIGENT THAN THE EVIL
SPIRIT.
THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
>> NO.
IN FACT, ONE OF THE FUNNIEST
STORIES FROM FATHER AMORTH'S
ACCOUNTS IS -- FUNNY TO ME, ONE
TIME A DEVIL TRICKED HIM AND HE
SAID HE WOULD LEAVE ON THE
ASSUMPTION THAT FATHER AMORTH
WAS CONVINCED THAT THE EXORCISM
IS DONE.
I CAN BE DONE WITH THIS YOUNG
MAN.
THE YOUNG MAN COMES BACK TWO
WEEKS LATER, STILL POSSESSED.
FATHER AMORTH ASKED THE DEVIL
WHY DIDN'T YOU LEAVE WHEN YOU
SAID YOU WOULD?
AND HIS ESSENTIAL RESPONSE WAS
I'M A DEMON, I LIE.
>> YEAH.
>> AT THAT POINT HE WAS TELLING
THE TRUTH.
THIS IS PRECISELY HOW OUR
SAVIOR, JESUS, DESCRIBES THE
EVIL SPIRIT.
HE IS A LIAR AND THE FATHER OF
LIES, AND A MURDERER FROM THE
BEGINNING.
LIES AND TAKING HUMAN LIFE,
CHARACTERIZE THE DEMONIC.
AND WE SHOULD BE ALERT TO THAT
AT ALL TIMES.
IF YOU DON'T MIND, LET'S TAKE A
LITTLE BIT OF A BREAK.
WE'LL COME BACK IN A COUPLE OF
MINUTES AND CONTINUE THIS
DISCUSSION.
SO PLEASE STAY WITH US.
[MUSIC]
[MUSIC]
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE ARE TALKING TO MR. MICHAEL J.
LICHENS ABOUT EXORCISM, AND IN
PARTICULAR THE MINISTRY OF
FATHER GABRIELE AMORTH.
THERE'S A BOOK OUT -- AS A
MATTER OF FACT, MR. LICHENS, YOU
HELPED TO EDIT THIS BOOK, DID
YOU NOT?
>> I DID.
I WAS PART OF THE FINAL LOOK AND
ALSO THE MARKETING.
>> AND THE BOOK IS CALLED "THE
DEVIL IS AFRAID OF ME" -- THE
LIFE AND WORK OF THE WORLD'S
MOST POPULAR EXORCIST AND IT IS
BY FATHER GABRIELE AMORTH.
YOU CAN GET IT AT EWTN RELIGIOUS
CATALOG.
IT IS ITEM NUMBER 62427.
YOU ALSO HAVE ANOTHER BOOK BY
FATHER AMORTH CALLED "MY BATTLE
AGAINST SATAN" IT IS AVAILABLE
AT EWTNRC.
IT IS ITEM 6087.
THAT IS ewtnrc.com.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT I DON'T URGE
PEOPLE TO LIGHTLY GO READING
SUCH BOOKS.
I THINK WHEN SOMEBODY ENGAGES IN
EVEN READING ABOUT EXORCISM, THE
PROBLEM CAN BE A CURIOSITY THAT
DOES NOT SERVE CATS OR THE
UNPREPARED VERY WELL.
YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE TO
WATCH THAT.
EVEN AS THIS IS AN IMPORTANT
TOPIC, BUT YOU NEED TO KEEP
YOURSELF, AS WE SAY DOWN HERE IN
ALABAMA, ALL PRAYED UP.
GET YOURSELF PRAYED UP SO THAT
YOU ARE READY TO TAKE THIS ON.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?
>> IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
CURIOSITY IS OFTEN A MATHWAY PAY
THAT CAN LEAD YOU TO SOME
DANGEROUS PLACES.
I THINK ONE OF THE STRANGEST
PARTS OF FATHER AMORTH'S WORK IS
HOW MANY TIMES HE HAD TO DEAL
WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE OCCULTISTS
AND I CAN IMAGINE WHERE IF THAT
STARTS WITH CURIOSITY AND IF IT
WILL WORK AND ALL OF A SUDDEN
YOU ARE CURSING YOUR FATHER IN
LAW OR MOTHER-IN-LAW OR DAUGHTER
IN LAW.
>> ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES, NOT
EVEN ALWAYS A DIFFICULTY IN A
SECULAR WORLD.
ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES IS THE
QUESTION OF THE REALITY OF THE
DEVIL AND WHETHER THE DEVIL IS
REAL OR NOT.
C.S. LEWIS HAD WRITTEN IN HIS
WONDERFUL BOOK "SCREWTAPE
LETTERS, WHICH HE SAID WAS THE
MOST DIFFICULT BOOK HE EVER
WROTE, BUT IN SCREWTAPELETTERS
HE SAID THE DEVIL IS EQUALLY
SERVED BY HOSE WHO DENY HIS
EXISTENCE OR THOSE OVERLY
FASCINATED WITH HIS EXISTENCE.
BECAUSE IN EITHER CASE YOU ARE
NOT BELIEVING THE TRUTH OR
REALITY AND GIVING AUTHORITY TO
GOD.
IN THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION
OF EXORCISTS, THERE'S A
STATEMENT ABOUT THE DEVIL.
FROM AUGUST 22nd OF 2019,
JUST OVER A YEAR AGO.
IT SAYS "THE REAL EXISTENCE OF
THE DEVIL, AS A PERSONAL SUBJECT
WHO THINKS AND ACTS AND HAS MADE
THE CHOICE OF REBELLION AGAINST
GOD, IS A TRUTH OF FAITH THAT
HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF
CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE."
NOW, DO YOU FIND PEOPLE
DISAGREEING WITH THAT STATEMENT,
OR COMING UP WITH DENIALS OF THE
EXISTENCE OF THE DEVIL?
>> I HAVE ENCOUNTERED A COUPLE
OF THINGS.
LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ON
THE BREAK, I'VE DONE INTERVIEWS
WITH SECULAR RADIO ABOUT FATHER
AMORTH AND THERE'S ALWAYS THIS
PUSH BACK OF IS IT REALLY A
PERSON OR IS THE DEVIL LUCIFER
THIS AMALGAMATION OF OUR
THOUGHTS OF WHAT IS EVIL AND
BAD?
I THINK THAT IS A MISTAKE.
FATHER AMORTH OFTEN DID TRY TO
TELL PEOPLE THERE IS A DEVIL AND
HE IS REAL AND IN FATHER
AMORTH'S CASE HE COULD SAY I'VE
MET HIM AND THAT CAN BE HARD FOR
PEOPLE TO HEAR.
>> OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST HAD A
SIMILAR EXPERIENCE ON MULTIPLE
OCCASIONS IN TERMS OF MEETING
THE EVIL ONE AND BAN ISSUING
HIM.
THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.
I WILL NEVER FORGET BACK IN THE
1980s -- I THINK THE LATE
'80s, MAYBE EVEN EARLY '90s
BUT THERE WAS A TELEVISED
EXORCISM ON ABC.
THIS MAY HAVE BEEN BEFORE YOUR
TIME.
YOU ARE A YOUNGER MAN.
THERE WAS A PRIEST FROM NEW YORK
WHO WAS AN EXORCIST AND HE GOT
PERMISSION FROM EVERYONE
INVOLVED, INCLUDING THE CHURCH
AUTHORITIES TO LET THEM MAKE A
VIDEO OF THIS BUT IT WAS
SOMEWHAT COVERED.
THEY SORT OF MADE IT IN
SILHOUETTE.
SO YOU COULDN'T TELL WHO THE
PERSON WAS AND VOICES WERE
ALTERED, THINGS LIKE THAT.
WELL, AN INTERESTING PART OF
THAT CAME AFTERWARDS WHEN A
CATHOLIC THEOLOGIAN FROM NOTRE
DAME UNIVERSITY, FATHER RICHARD
McBRIAN WAS ON TO DEBATE THIS
EXORCIST.
I MET THE EXORCIST PERSONALLY.
HE ENGAGED FATHER McBRIAN WHO
WAS VERY UPSET.
THE BELIEF IN THE DEVIL IS A
MEDIEVAL CONCEPT.
THIS IS OUT OF DATE.
WE NO LONGER HAVE THIS IN THE
CHURCH.
HE WAS ALL UPSET.
YOU KNOW.
AND THE PRIEST, EXORCIST, VERY
CALMLY SAID THAT IN THE FIRST
EDITION OF FATHER McBRIAN'S
BOOK, "ROMAN CATHOLICISM," THERE
IS A PERSONAL DEVIL.
IN THE THIRD EDITION OF HIS
BOOK, HE CHANGED THAT AND DENIED
THE EXISTENCE OF A PERSONAL
DEVIL.
SO THIS EXORCIST SAID, WELL, IF
FATHER RICHARD McBRIAN FEELS
NO NEED TO AGREE WITH FATHER
RICHARD McBRIAN, NEITHER DO I.
>> LOVELY.
>> AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING
WHERE WE HAVE TO HAVE A CLARITY
ABOUT THIS EXISTENCE OF AN EVIL
SPIRIT.
OUR LORD DID EXORCISE AND FATHER
AMORTH DID, AS WELL.
THAT'S THE POINT OF THESE BOOKS,
IS IT NOT?
>> THAT'S THE EXACT POINT IS TO
TALK ABOUT A REAL THING THAT IN
SOCIETY WE HAVE EVEN COME TO A
POINT WHERE WE DON'T WANT TO
BELIEVE IN THE SIMPLE SPIRITUAL
THINGS LIKE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF
PRAYER OR THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO, TO SAY THERE'S A DEVIL, A
DEVIL THAT IS OUT TO DESTROY US
AND ALL OF CREATION CAN BE A
REAL MAJOR STATEMENT BUT I THINK
IT NEEDS TO BE SAID MORE OFTEN.
>> YEAH.
YEAH.
YEAH.
BUT I'VE ALSO -- I REMEMBER ONE
PRIEST SAYING OUT LOUD TO ME, HE
SAID, YOU SHOULD NOT TALK ABOUT
THE DEVIL OR HELL.
BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER MAKE YOU
A BISHOP IF THAT'S THE CASE.
NOW, MY RESPONSE WAS IS THAT ALL
IT TAKES?
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> EASY JOB INTERVIEW.
>> THIS IDEA THAT THERE'S A
CERTAIN MOOD AMONG SOME PEOPLE
IN THE CHURCH, LIKE McBRIAN
AND PERHAPS SOME OTHERS, THAT
THE DEVIL AND HELL ARE NOT REAL.
THIS IS HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC, IS
IT NOT?
>> I THINK IT ABSOLUTELY IS.
I KNOW THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS
FATHER AMORTH STARTED -- HE
INITIALLY DID JUST RADIO
INTERVIEWS IN ROME ABOUT HIS
MINISTRY AND HE KEPT
ENCOUNTERING PRIESTS AND BISHOPS
WHO DIDN'T BELIEVE IN THE DEVIL.
I CAN ALMOST THINK OF HOW
FRUSTRATING THAT MUST BE FOR HIS
JOB, LIKE TO HEAR SOMEONE DENY
HE IS EVEN DOING ANY WORK.
AS HE KEPT MEETING THEM, HE WAS
ENCOURAGED POPE FRANCIS BELIEVED
IN THE DEVIL BUT THOUGHT THE
NUMBER WAS TOO HIGH OF PEOPLE
THAT DENIED THE DEVIL.
>> RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.
POPE FRANCIS IS DEFINITELY THE
CASE.
I EVEN REMEMBER THE PREMIER OF
RUSSIA, BACK WHEN THE SOVIET
UNION COLLAPSED, I FORGET HIS
NAME ALREADY.
BUT HE WAS THE PREMIER WHO
OVERSAW THE COLLAPSE.
AND EVEN HE SAID, SOME PEOPLE
RUN AWAY FROM IN THE WAY THE --
GORBACHEV.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> GORBACHEV SAID, SOME PEOPLE
RUN AWAY FROM THIS LIKE THE
DEVIL RUNS AWAY FROM INCENSE.
NOW, THIS IS A GUY AT THE HEAD
OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY.
AND GORBACHEV, VERY MUCH ALSO
UNDERSTOOD FROM BEING AROUND IN
THE OLD SOVIET UNION -- I DON'T
THINK IT WAS HARD TO BELIEVE IN
THE EXISTENCE OF EVIL IN TERMS
OF LIES AND DEATH BEING THEIR
PRIMARY TOOLS.
THAT WAS VERY MUCH KEY.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
AND ALSO JUST TO WITNESS THAT
MASSIVE SHIFT GOING ON IN THE
WORLD THAT SEEMED TO HAPPEN OUT
OF NOWHERE.
>> YES.
THE SHIFT AWAY FROM, YOU KNOW,
THIS POWER CENTER OF A
COLLAPSING SOVIET UNION.
THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS
VERY, VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE.
AGAIN, THE COLLAPSE WAS FOR THE
BETTER, BUT THERE WAS AN AWFUL
LOT OF EVIL.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT
I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP VERY
MUCH IN MIND WHEN WE ARE DEALING
WITH OUR CATHOLIC FAITH THAT THE
EVIL ONE EXISTS.
OUR LORD BELIEVED IN HIM,
CONFRONTED HIM, DEALT WITH HIM.
AND WHEN WE -- EVEN ARE SEEING
SOME OF THE EVIL BEHAVIORS IN
OUR SOCIETY, WE NEED TO KEEP AN
EAR AND EYE OPEN THAT THIS CAN
BE MORE THAN MERE HUMAN ANGER
AND SUCH.
THERE CAN BE A CERTAIN DEMONIC
FORCE INVOLVED IN THE HATRED
THAT GOES AROUND.
>> CERTAINLY.
FATHER AMORTH EXPERIENCED, IN
SOME CASES OF EXORCISM, THAT ONE
OF THE DEMONS -- THAT THE
DEMON'S GOALS, AMONG MANY, WAS
TO SEPARATE THE SUFFERER FROM
EVERY OTHER PERSON TO CREATE
HATE OR DISTRUST OR FEAR BECAUSE
WE ARE MEANT TO BE TOGETHER.
WE'RE MEANT TO HELP EACH OTHER
AND BE AMONG EACH OTHER AND
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THE
DEMON TRIES TO TAKE AWAY FROM
US.
>> ALSO, I REMEMBER A QUESTION
POSED BY MY PROFESSOR OF
EXORCISM IN DEMONOLOGY.
HE SAID THE PERSON WHO IS
POSSESSED DOES NOT HAVE PERSONAL
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BAD
THINGS THEY SAY AND DO WHILE
THEY ARE UNDER THE POSSESSION.
THIS IS NOT THEIR CHOICE.
THAT'S WHAT POSSESSION MEANS.
THE DEMON HAS POSSESSED THEM.
IT HAS CONTROL OF THEIR WILL.
THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE AND
THEY ARE NOT GUILTY.
SO, THEN HE POSED THIS QUESTION,
WHY DOES THE DEMON POSSESS
PEOPLE IF THEY ARE NOT HELD
MORALLY CULPABLE?
>> HUH.
>> HAVE YOU THOUGHT OF THAT
QUESTION?
>> I HAVE NEVER LOOKED IN INTO
THAT QUESTION DEEPLY.
THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
>> HERE'S WHAT WE PROPOSED IN
CLASS.
HUMAN BEINGS ARE MADE IN THE
IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD.
WHEN THE DEVIL POSSESSES
SOMEBODY, HE DISTORTS THAT IMAGE
AND MAKES THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS
OF GOD INTO SOMETHING FEARFUL,
FRIGHTENING AND EVEN L HORRIBLE.
AND THAT DISTORTION MOTIVATES
HIM TO POSSESS CERTAIN PEOPLE.
THINK ABOUT THAT IN CERTAIN
REALMS, LIKE THE COLD HATRED OF
STALIN, THE HOT ANGER AND
VICIOUSNESS OF HITLER, AND MANY
OTHER PEOPLE CAN HAVE THAT
DISTORTION IN THE IMAGE AND
LIKENESS OF GOD AND BECOME TOOLS
OF THE EVIL ONE.
>> THAT IS A GREAT ANSWER.
ONE I CAN ABSOLUTELY SEE BOTH IN
PERSONAL LIFE AND THROUGH THE
FATHER OF FATHER AMORTH.
THE DEMON ALMOST IN ITS
POSSESSION OR THE VEXATIONS IS
MAKING A MOCKERY OF ALL THAT IS
GOOD.
THAT'S WHY IT WILL OFTEN MAKE
NOTES IN THREES, TO MOCK THE
TRINITY AND THINGS OF THAT
NATURE.
>> YES.
>> MOCKING OUR LADY.
>> MOCKING OUR LADY.
MOCKING THE EXORCIST WITH THE
HOLY WATER.
FATHER AMORTH RECOUNTS SOMETIMES
A DEMON WOULD BE SO DETERMINED
TO INTERRUPT AND THROW HIM OFF
THAT IT WOULD SPIT OBJECTS THAT
WOULD APPEAR FROM HIS MOUTH.
THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO --
>> SO, IT'S THAT KIND OF
DISTORTION.
>> UH-HUH.
>> ON THE OTHER SIDE, I'D LIKE
TO GIVE A QUOTE ABOUT THE POWER
AND EFFECT OF EXORCISM RELATED
TO THIS.
FATHER FRANCESCO BAMONTE, WHO IS
THE PRESIDENT OF THE
INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
EXORCISTS.
LET ME GIVE THIS QUOTE, IF I
MAY.
WHEN IMPLEMENTED IN SITUATIONS
OF REAL DIABOLICAL POSSESSION
AND ACCORDING TO THE NORMS
ESTABLISHED BY THE CHURCH,
INSPIRED BY GENUINE FAITH AND
NECESSARY PRUDENCE, EXORCISM
MANIFESTS ITS SALVIFIC, POSITIVE
CHARACTER, CHARACTERIZED BY A
LIVING EXPERIENCE OF PURITY,
LIGHT AND PEACE.
DID FATHER AMORTH DESCRIBE THE
VARIOUS PEOPLE AFTER THE
EXORCISMS HAVING THAT LIGHT AND
GENTLENESS AND PEACE?
>> HE ABSOLUTELY DID.
I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST
EXORCISM HE HAD WHERE HE
ENCOUNTERED LUCIFER IN THE YOUNG
MAN.
THE YOUNG MAN HAD TO COME BACK A
COUPLE OF TIMES.
AND LIKE WISE IN THE EXORCISM OF
ANOTHER YOUNG MAN WHERE THE
DEMON KEPT LYING ABOUT WHEN HE
WOULD LEAVE.
HE FOUND THE YOUNG MAN WOULD
COME BACK, WHEN HE COULD TELL
THE DEMON WAS GONE AND HE WOULD
HAVE FOLLOWUP MEETINGS OR
FOLLOWUP EXORCISMS WITH HIM AND
IT WOULD BE ALMOST LIKE A
DIFFERENT PERSON AND THEY WOULD
BE FULL OF GRATITUDE IS THE WAY
HE WOULD DESCRIBE IT FOR THE
FACT THEY MADE IT THROUGH, BUT
MORE THAN ANYTHING HE DESCRIBED
A LIGHTNESS TO THEIR CHARACTER.
>> YEAH.
SO TAKE WHAT WE SAID A MINUTE
AGO, JUST THE PROCESS OF
EXORCISM IS THE PROCESS OF
RESTORING THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS
OF GOD.
IN A PERSON.
THAT IT IS CLEANSING OUT THE
DISTORTIONS AND CHANGING THE
PERSON FROM THE INSIDE.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY
KEY FOR US.
NOW, HERE'S A QUESTION, DID
FATHER AMORTH FIND THAT IT
ALWAYS WORKED?
DID EXORCISM ALWAYS SUCCEED?
>> IT SUCCEEDED OFTEN IF HE
COULD SEE PEOPLE CONTINUOUSLY.
HE DOES RECORD A COUPLE OF TIMES
THAT FOR -- HE DOESN'T GET DEEP
INTO THE REASONS BUT HE RECORDS
A COUPLE OF TIMES SOMEONE WAS
NOT ACCEPTING TO HE HEALING
GRACES AND WOULD STOP SHOWING UP
FOR THEIR EXORCISMS.
SO THAT PRESUMES IT DID NOT
UNFORTUNATELY WORK.
SOME EXORCISMS HE COULD GET DONE
IN FIVE MINUTES AND HE'D NEVER
SEE THE PERSON AGAIN.
OFTEN TIMES HE WOULD HAVE TO
HAVE THE PERSON SEE HIM AGAIN
AND AGAIN.
>> AND THERE'S GOSPEL PRECEDENT
FOR THAT.
YOU KNOW, WE THINK OF THE WAY
OUR LORD ADDRESSED THE LEGION OF
DEMONS AND KEPT ON ADDRESSING
HIM.
AND THEN GAVE THEM PERMISSION TO
GO IN THE PIGS.
THIS BRINGS OUT A COUPLE OF
CHARACTERISTICS.
ARCHBISHOP SHEEN USED TO TALK
ABOUT THE WAY THAT THAT MAN WHO
IS NAKED AND RUNNING AROUND THE
GRAVES.
HE POINTED OUT THAT OFTEN TIMES
PUBLIC NUDITY IS AN INDICATION
OF THE DEMONIC.
AND THAT PEOPLE TRYING TO SHOW
OFF THEMSELVES IN THAT WAY HAD A
DEMONIC QUALITY.
BUT THEN THE OTHER THING IS YOU
ALSO SEE WHEN THE DEMONS GET
WHAT THEY WANT, AND THEY ARE
ALLOWED INTO THE HERD OF PIGS,
THEY IMMEDIATELY RUN OFF OF A
BLUFF AND DROWN IN THE SE OF
GALILEE, EVEN THOUGH BY NATURE
PIGS ARE PRETTY GOOD SWIMMERS.
THEY CAN SWIM PRETTY WELL.
BUT THEY -- IT'S SELF
DESTRUCTIVE.
THIS BRINGS OUT THE SELF
DESTRUCTIVE QUALITY OF EVIL.
AGAIN, THINK OF AFTER THE NAZIS
AND AFTER THE COMMUNISTS, THE
SELF DESTRUCTION OF THEIR OWN
AREAS.
THIS IS SOMETHING TO SEE IN
EVIL, AS IT APPROACHES.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
I'M AFRAID THAT WE ARE GETTING
CLOSE TO THE END HERE.
AND I JUST WANT TO MENTION IN
OUR LAST MINUTE AND A HALF THAT
THERE'S ANOTHER BOOK BY FATHER
AMORTH CALLED "ANCHORRIST
EXPLAINS THE DEMONIC, THE ANTICS
OF SATAN AND HIS ARMY OF FALLEN
ANGELS."
THIS IS ALSO BY FATHER GABRIELE
AMORTH.
YOU BRING THIS UP BECAUSE IT IS
GOOD FOR US AND OUR RELIGIOUS
CATALOG, THAT IS NUMBER 3451.
PLUS THE BOOKS YOU HAVE EDITED.
THESE ARE GOOD RESOURCES FOR
PEOPLE TO EXIST READ PRAYERFULLY
AND GET PRAYED UP BEFORE THEY DO
SO.
WOULDN'T BE BAD TO GO TO
CONFESSION.
>> NEVER.
>> AND COMMUNION.
THAT'S ALWAYS A GOOD THING.
I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR BEING
WITH US AND FOR THE WORK THAT
YOU HAVE DONE.
IF I MIGHT, WE WILL GIVE A
PRIESTLY BLESSING.
THE ALMIGHTY GOD BLESS YOU, KEEP
YOU AWAY FROM THE EVIL ONE AND
MAY SAINT MICHAEL AND ALL OF HIS
ANGELS BE SENT BY GOD TO PROTECT
YOU.
MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL, THE
FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY
SPIRIT.
AMEN.
WE THANK YOU ALL FOR SUPPORTING
US IN THIS COVID PERIOD.
WE CAN BRING THESE AND ALL OF
THE OTHER SHOWS AND SERIES TO
YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR SUPPORT.
THANK YOU, AND GOD BLESS YOU.
[MUSIC]
