1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7,
WELCOME BACK IT'S 9 1351
YEARS AGO, A POLICE RAID AT THE
STONEWALL INN A BAR IN NEW
YORK'S GREENWICH VILLAGE
SPARKED DAYS OF RIOTS AND
UNREST THERE MANY BELIEVE IT
WAS ALSO SPARKED THE MODERN
MOVEMENT FOR LGBTQ RIGHTS BUT A
NEW BOOK THE DEVIANTS FOR
HIGHLIGHTS THE MEN AND WOMEN
WHO CAME BEFORE IN THE FIGHT
FOR EQUALITY MORE THAN A DECADE
PRIOR. IT'S WRITTEN BY
HISTORIAN, ERIC SERVING HE
JOINS US LIVE VIA SKYPE ERIC
GOOD MORNING TO YOU. MORNING
THANKS FOR HAVING LET'S START
WHO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FRANK
COMMUNITY HE STARTS OFF YOUR
BOOK. AND THIS THIS IS A MAN
WHO LIVED WELL INTO THE 21ST
CENTURY HE DIED ABOUT 9 YEARS
AGO SO HE SOME MUCH OF WHAT HE
STARTED TELL US ABOUT WHERE HE
BEGAN WHERE THIS IS STORY
BEGIN.
THAT'S RIGHT AND HE WAS A
HARVARD EDUCATED ASTROPHYSICIST
WHO WAS WORKING FOR THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IN THE DEFENSE
DEPARTMENT AND AS SOON AS THEY
LEARNED THAT HE WAS DAY THEY
IMMEDIATELY URGED HIM FROM HIS
JOB HE WAS NEVER ALLOWED TO
WORK FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
AGAIN AND HE REALLY WAS THE
FIRST PERSON TO ACTUALLY FIGHT
BACK AGAINST THE SYSTEMATIC
PERSECUTION OF DEVIANCE AS THEY
WERE CALLED IMUS IS IN 1957.
NOW TELL TELL US ABOUT HOW
FRANK KAMENY WAS HE WAS
RECALLED HE WAS WORKING IN
HAWAII AT THE TIME, HE'S AN
ASTRONOMER HE'S AND THIS IS AT
A TIME SPUTNIK IS GOING WE ARE
IN A SPACE RACE WITH THE
RUSSIANS AND IN ASTRONOMERS
RECALLED TO WASHINGTON AND TOLD
YOU YOU NO LONGER ARE NEEDED BY
US.
EXACTLY AND UNTIL THAT
MOMENT YOU COULD NOT HAVE HAD A
MORE IN DEMAND JOB IN THE
ENTIRE COUNTRY AS YOU SAID THIS
IS WITHIN WEEKS OF SPUTNIK THE
VERY LAUNCH OF THE SPACE RACE
WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
QUITE TRAGICALLY SAID WE DON'T
WANT YOU WE DON'T WANT YOUR
TALENTS, YOUR HARVARD
EVERYTHING GOT AN AND SAID HE
STARTED LOOKING REALLY FOR THE
REST OF HIS LIFE IN AND OUT OF
POVERTY AND IT'S QUITE A SHAME
UNTIL YOU RECOGNIZE HOW MUCH
SHE ACTUALLY DID IN SERVING AS
THE GRANDFATHER OF THE MODERN
RIGHTS MOVEMENT.
LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT MOST
PEOPLE IT IS PRIDE MONTH WE
HAVE A PRIDE MARCH IN PARADES
NOW AND ALL OF THAT STEMS AN
OUTPOURING OF SUPPORT. AFTER
THE STONEWALL RIOTS HAPPENED.
WOULD STONEWALL HAVE HAPPENED
HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR FRANK
KAMENY FOR HARRY HAY FOR DOWN
MARTIN WHO CAME A DECADE AND
MORE PRIOR TO THAT.
I THINK THERE WOULD HAVE A
EVENTUALLY HAVE BEEN SOME SORT
OF VIOLENT RESISTANCE BY WHAT
THOSE FIGURES YOU DID I'M SO
GLAD YOU MENTIONED PINAR DEL
PEOPLE LIKE TO SEE A BIGGER WAS
THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO MARCH
FOR RIGHTS IN 1965, THIS IS 5
YEARS OR YEARS BEFORE A STORM
OF THE VERY FIRST DAY PICK IT
WAS IN AND SO I THINK THEY
REALLY SET THE IDEOLOGICAL IN
STRATEGIC. FOUNDATIONS FOR
LIBERATION THAT YOU THEN SEE
EXPLODE ON A MASSIVE SCALE
AFTER STONEWALL SO YES, WAS
IMPORTANT, BUT IT WASN'T THE
MOMENT THAT STARTED EVERYTHING
WAS THE MOMENT THAT CHANGED
EVERYTHING. HOW DID YOU ON THE
WORK FOR THIS THIS IS YOUR VERY
FIRST BOOK YOU YOU WENT TO
HARVARD.
YOU YOU YOU HAVE A LOT OF
EDUCATION HOW DID YOU START ON
THIS BOOK WAS THIS WAS THIS
PART OF YOUR DISSERTATION AT
FIRST AND THEN IT JUST
EXPLODED.
EXACTLY EXACTLY BEEN 7 YEARS
WORKING ON THIS PROJECT IT'S
GOT ABOUT 2500 DIFFERENT AND
KNOW THIS BUT I TRY TO WRITE IT
JUST LIKE ANYONE WOULD WRITE A
THRILLER AND IT BECAUSE SO MUCH
OF IT WHETHER IT'S J EDGAR
HOOVER AND THE TRYING TO
INFILTRATE DOES THIS NEW
ORGANIZATION THAT FRONT.
CAM ME STARTED ON THERE'S A
MURDER STORY THERE'S A LOT OF
LOVE STORY AND IT OPENS WITH A
RESTROOM ENCOUNTER BETWEEN A 2
MAN IN SAN FRANCISCO THAT
REALLY LIKES YOU ARE IN
KENNEDY'S DOWNFALL, IT'S BEEN A
LONG TIME WORKING ON IT, BUT IT
WAS ALSO A LOT OF ON TO DO THE
WORK WHAT DID YOU RESEARCHING
THIS AND WHAT COULD OTHERS
LEARN FROM THIS WHO AREN'T
NECESSARILY OR. WELL I THINK
RIGHT NOW ESPECIALLY WITH THE
PARADES CANCELED ITS PRIDE
MONTH RIGHT NOW IT'S THE 50TH
ANNIVERSARY OF THE VERY FIRST
PRIDE MARCH IN 1970. AND I
THINK AS PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT HOW TO CELEBRATE
PRIDE I WOULD SUGGEST THEY READ
THE BOOK AND RECOGNIZE THAT IT
WASN'T JUST STONE WALL THAT WAS
A RIOT, IT WAS THE TOTALITY OF
PRIDE THAT WAS BORROWED FROM
THE BLACK FREEDOM MOVEMENT AND
THAT TRANS WOMEN OF COLOR
WEREN'T JUST IMPORTANT
STONEWALL THEIR ESSENTIAL TO
THE ENTIRETY OF OUR MOVEMENT SO
I THINK RIGHT GATES IS WHITE
MAN ESPECIALLY NEED TO BE THE
FIRST PEOPLE SPEAKING OUT
AGAINST POLICE BRUTALITY,
ESPECIALLY TOWARDS BLACK TRANS
WOMEN WHO ARE BEING TARGETED AT
HER EFFECT RATES, IT IS A IT IS
A WONDERFUL READ I'VE ONLY
GOTTEN THROUGH HALF OF IT.
