KRISTEN KAZA: Hello, 
and welcome to 
Chicago Humanities Festival live on
YouTube with Cameron Esposito.
My name is Kristen Kaza.
I am the co-founder and producer 
of Slow-Mo Party Slow Jams
for Queer Fam, a 9-year running 
crew dance party in Chicago.
We're actually having our 
digital dance party tonight.
I'll tell you more about that
 later and you can join us for
an after party and meet us 
on the digital dance floor, but
it's my pleasure and honor
 and joy to introduce
a friend of mine to this 
virtual stage.
We're not at the Vic, but we can 
now be able to be with our
friends and family and 
fans from across the globe.
So I want to welcome to 
our stage Cameron Esposito.
She's the co-creator and 
co-star of Take My Wife.
She's also the host and creator 
of the very popular podcast
Queery and she is the author of 
her recent best-selling book
Save Yourself, which I've finished 
- it's amazing, and I'm so
proud of you and I 
can't wait to dig in
and talk about this book, 
but first before we get into that
and have a chat with Cameron, 
I want to make a couple notes.
I want to thank the AV Club for 
partnering with
Chicago Humanities Festival
 on this live digital event.
And I also want to give a thanks 
to the captioner for making
this program accessible - 
something that's super important
to CHF, Cameron, and myself.
So the Chicago Humanities Festival 
connects
people and ideas to 
cultivate a more informed,
inspired, empathetic, 
and participatory society.
So we want to encourage your participation.
You can add your questions in 
the comments and YouTube box
and we're going to try and to
 respond to as many as we can
in the short window that we have 
and you can learn more about
the Digital Festival and other 
programs that they have by
supporting the programming at 
Chicago Humanities dot-org.
So without further ado, put your 
hands together, clap in the
comments for my friend,
 Cameron Esposito.
So good to see you! 
Okay, so...
first thing I have to make a
 comment of a very full circle
moment. So my first engagement and 
work with Chicago Humanities
Festival was 10 years ago, 
and it was with Dan Savage.
I was working with 
The Reader and Dan Savage.
We did a collaboration of 
The Reader and Dan Savage at
Humanities Festival and then we did 
an after party and you were a
comic for that after party 
and I will never forget this night
because he and I drove down, 
drove over there.
He ate a brownie in my car and 
then he came into a very mobbed
Berlin and I arrived there and 
you were dressed from your
sister's wedding which you talk
 about in this book is wearing
a dress in that wedding.
So I just like I can't believe 
that full circle, and reading
about it in the book just reminded 
me of our time together
10 years ago.
CAMERON ESPOSITO: Yeah, you know 
Dan is somebody who... 
I talk about this in the book. 
When I was coming out,
I was in college in Boston.
I was at Boston College, and 
at the time you couldn't
come out safely on campus.
It was not protected by the 
non-discrimination policy which
was an open stance that the
 university held and so I really
didn't know any out queer
 adults, or people my own age.
I knew my girlfriend that 
I was kissing, and you know,
I found Dan's column in, I 
guess, the Boston Phoenix.
It's their free weekly... 
the equivalent of the Chicago
Reader and started reading his
 column and it was really that
experience of encountering parenting 
within the queer community.
I mean, I actually am 
close with my parents and I have a
good relationship with my folks.
I also think that as queer folks,
we have a history and a culture 
and you know, we need to be
parented by queer folks too, 
sometimes even queer folks
who are younger than us.
KRISTEN: Yeah.
CAMERON: So Dan held this 
really special place
in my heart and I had met him 
I think at a reading before
but you asked me if I would 
perform with him and I was the
Maid of Honor at my sister's wedding 
and I left the reception
for about 45 minutes 
or something like that.
KRISTEN: Yup.
CAMERON: Did a set to open for Dan
 and that was how important
that was to me.
Then I went back to the wedding...
KRISTEN: You did. You were
 in the dress, right?
Am I remembering that right?
CAMERON: Yeah.
Absolutely.
There's... those photos 
still exist.
KRISTEN: I actually tried to
 find the photo that was 
from the party, but I think...
 (inaudible)
CAMERON: Search "Cameron Esposito x 
Dan Savage" and you might find them
But anyway... that's all just 
to say... you know, then
when my book came out, it was 
published a few weeks ago, Dan is
now somebody that I have had
 a relationship, an ongoing relationship
with over the years and he 
came and did an Instagram live
with me and congratulated me
 on the book and you know joined
me from his home and 
I've been a guest on his podcast,
he's been a guest on mine,
and it really is true for me -
I say this also as, like, 
as a person in the arts -
You don't necessarily... 
you meet new people....
You meet new people.
But the people that you met
 when you first started doing
the thing, you'll know those
 people for the rest of your life.
You know, that's true 
for you and I,
that's true for me and Dan. 
I did a pop-in appearance
at the Cole's Open Mic digital
 Zoom that they had last last
week and they didn't know I
 was coming and I just had like
saw last minute that it was
 happening and I popped in and
they gave me a quick set and 
I got to see a community that
still is a community for me, 
you know, Alex Kumin and 
Coleman Brice, and the 
folks who now run that, 
that I started 10 years ago.
So for me, it's like...
communities are long-lasting.
So thank you to Chicago for
 inviting me home for this.
KRISTEN: Yeah.
Well, and I'm so glad that you
 mentioned that... you mentioned
like three things I was 
going to bring up.
I love the book so much. 
As a Chicagoan and I loved it,
as a friend of yours, 
I loved it. 
But as a queer person, it was 
just really really special
and there's so much I want 
to talk about in this book!
We have such a short window
 of time, but you just mentioned
the Cole's Open Mics.
That was one thing I was 
going to bring up is prior to the
Cole's Open Mic you had
started Feminine Comique, still
going on now, because you wanted 
to create and you mentioned
these really important words, 
which is 'make space' for women
and of course also inclusive 
of trans and non-binary
people in comedy. You know, 
now people might see lots of
women and gender minorities
 in comedy or in performance or
entertainment. You know, why
 is it still important now?
And where do you see the 
priority or who is the priority
in the, sort of, current 
state of things
with comedy and 
the future of comedy?
CAMERON: You know, what's so wild 
that is something that I think is
important to even be honest
 about is like you said and 'you're
sure inclusive of trans folks 
and non binary folks'
and at the time that I started
 that class it really wasn't,
and I don't mean that it was
 explicitly exclusive but there were
so few people from marginalized 
communities performing stand-up
in Chicago that like the most
 out-there thing that
a person could be identity-wise,
 like the most underrepresented
thing, was essentially like a 
cisgender queer person like
one other... Bill Cruz was working 
at the time and had been
working prior to me. Jessica Halem, 
too. But it was very it was
not a thing. Also just in terms of... 
it was massively dominated,
you know, by men, and so I say
 all of that because like
when I come home to 
Chicago one of the things I'm
most proud of is the way that 
I took some space that really
needed to be taken and then,
 this is my like biggest
motto, as a human, I held the
 door open for other people
to follow after and do the 
things that I didn't even know
needed to happen yet, right? 
Like I just filled the need
that I saw, which was like, 
I saw a need for more 
 women to be nurtured through 
writing their first five minutes 
of stand-up which is what
that class does. I've heard from
 Mark Gary  who still runs
an amazing show in town called
 The Lincoln Lodge and created
that class, and in the time since, 
the people that followed
me, because I then handed them
 the (inaudible) class and said
like "Here, you make money from
 this. Here, you make community
from this", you know, "you teach". 
They have expanded things
and like I really think that 
as artists that is the greatest
gift that we can give our peers
 is to like make the biggest
splash we can think of 
and then pass the reins.
KRISTEN: Yeah, absolutely.
No, I agree completely and 
I think that's a how... Man, I wish
I knew about that Cole's Open
 Mic that's amazing to have
a full circle moment like 
that, that's so cool.
CAMERON: It's still running!
So, go on Wednesdays! Go on
Wednesdays, it's running. 
KRISTEN: So, you know, another 
thing I was going to ask
you about. I mean, you and I
 have seen more of each other
in the last few weeks than 
we have in a while but you've
been super active online and
 of course, you've got a book
to promote. How do you 
think that the comedy
industry and performance industry 
is being impacted right
now? I mean, comedians depend 
so much, of course, on a live
audience, on the reception of
 a live audience, and then you
know, right now the future 
of public gathering is pretty
uncertain and this might be a 
new normal for us. Something
that I've been thinking about 
as an event producer is like
this has been a huge eye-opening 
moment for me to think
about how to make events 
more accessible not just to the
people in the room, which is 
where my focus is a lot like
in terms of interpreters 
and bathroom accessibility
but also making events
accessible at home.
So I've been thinking more about 
how do we have more live
streaming from events?
So I was wondering if you have 
given any thought about the
future of comedy in the immediate 
with what's happening right
now - social distancing - and how 
this might affect things long-term?
CAMERON: You know, 
it sort of...
it sort of perfectly dovetails
with what I was just talking about.
So one thing that is true for 
most artists that...so there's
folks who, you know become
 woven into the fabric of Hollywood
and then they become, maybe
 they are a television writer
and they become more a part 
of a corporate system in Hollywood.
But there are also many people 
- Chicago specifically, full
of them - who don't ever 
become absorbed into a larger
corporate entity.
I essentially operate as, even
 though I've had a ton of jobs
in television and film, I essentially 
operate as a small business
person and work in, literally,
 the gig economy.
So my largest area of revenue 
is live performance and that
is true for most 
comics and musicians.
And so it's just a really interesting 
time because we will
have to pivot. Like it's 
not about like, so will it then lay
fallow and afterward we 
create some amazing art?
It's like no, we're gonna have 
to figure out how to pay
our bills. 
KRISTEN: Right. 
CAMERON: And it is really, you know, 
it's tough to have
learned a trade and have the 
skill set of that trade essentially
evaporate but it also is going to 
be this time of great innovation.
And also like, in many ways 
live performance as the
cornerstone for comics has been 
massively impacted by the
democratization of the internet 
anyway, so like you used
to have to open mic and then 
feature and then, you know, you're
you're slogging on the road 
carrying your own CDs and like
that's not true anymore.
Like you can get hired on SNL off of, like, your videos
that are fucking hilarious.
So this is going to be a really
 interesting time because
artists will need to rise to 
the occasion. Our livelihood
actually depends on it.
KRISTEN: Yeah, right.
I mean, yes - I feel that 
deeply and I agree that I think
right now, though, creative people
 are always going to be creative
creative people create and 
especially in these times and
in particular underrepresented 
and marginalized communities
have always gone through 
struggles together, which is you
know, both something that is
 painful but also like a really
beautiful reality.
I want to talk a little bit also,
 make sure we chat about
a few things about the 
book that really stood out to
me, you know, you were 
talking about Dan Savage
about being... having these parental
figures, having guides or
having parents and family 
members who are supportive and
One of my favorite parts 
in the book...
There's a lot of things where I 
was like "Wow ding ding ding!"
"So on the money", but you talk 
about your parents being like
'What do you mean? There were
 no signs! You were just like us'
and you reference Kid-oween and 
you talk about the characters
that you dressed up as for Halloween
 and I'm sure so many people,
queer people, tuning in right 
now can relate to this. The ones
that she shared were 
Charlie Chaplin, Robin Hood,
Was it Chaplin? 
Garfield...
Yeah, a pirate and...
CAMERON: Yeah. 
KRISTEN: But I mean, I just 
love that and I think that that's
you know, it's very endearing 
for us to think about that
now, in post, but for 
parents out there or family
members or friends who might
 have children in their life
that are wanting to be 
creatively expressive in this way
and maybe in a way that is not
 perceived as the gender norm,
what do you say to those 
parents and how can you 
be encouraging 
to them?
CAMERON: Wow, that is 
such a good question.
You know, I... in this particular 
area, like what I would say
maybe falls under the category 
of gender patrolling... I actually
received a lot of space at 
home growing up.
I have two sisters and they 
are both really traditionally
feminine and in really 
different ways.
One of them is like business 
lady and one of them is like
a yoga instructor who also
lives in South America.
So they've got they've got 
some different versions of what
we consider femininity covered 
and I was just always
doing a different thing than 
them and that was 
sort of okay.
I think what became
an obstacle in my life, 
not just for my parents
but for friends and you know, 
when I came out I really
lost faith, friends, and family,
is what happened. 
And I eventually got some of 
those things back, but I will
say that the biggest thing I 
would hear from people...
It wasn't like... it was surprise
that any of that had meant
anything, based on other 
people having a fear about my
future. So this is like... that I had
 wanted to be Garfield for
Halloween? Okay, that 
was freaking amazing.
But then, it was like - wait, you 
want to be Garfield for your
whole life? I don't think 
you understand.
You're not gonna be able to have kids 
you're not gonna make any money
you're not going to have friends, 
no husband, like I think it
was when it started to be clear 
that those things were serious.
So for parents that might be 
looking at a gender non-conforming
kid and think it's cute, like 
some of this stuff might
become less cute and it 
doesn't mean it will become less
a part of that 
person's identity.
You know, some of the 
worst stuff that has
ever happened to me was 
other people fearing my future
fearing for my future and 
it wasn't actually what 
was ahead for me.
It was the fear, 
KRISTEN: Right, and those
 projections of what
they think will happen 
in that future.
CAMERON: It is so loud in 
my apartment right now...
I just want to say. I don't 
know if you can hear that, 
but - so sorry if you can.
KRISTEN: Hear what?
CAMERON: Loudness outside 
of the apartment? 
Are we sounding good?
KRISTEN: I think it 
sounds great.
I feel like we're practically 
in the same living room.
You've got your your 
colorful bookshelf.
I have my colors 
behind me.
We didn't even talk about the 
rainbow color coordination.
We're just that queer, you know? 
So I also love like...
so their visibility of talking 
about the Halloween costumes,
but there were so many 
different things in the book.
I mean, I could talk about 
a lot of them, but I love
your reference to like, 
illegally downloading The L Word
on Limewire, which play-by-play 
is exactly what I'd done
and we're close in age...
but like, I remember I went to 
Blockbuster to go get it and
I trudge back in the snow,
on my winter break or something
my roommates weren't there
 and I popped it in and it was
Fiddler on the Roof and I was
 like...what?! I ended up going
on Limewire. There are some problems 
with the show, but it was important for
visibility, and I love that 
reference, then also like
the Diesel Cafe coffee 
shop in Boston...
you just wanted to walk around, 
which I feel like was
(inaudible) or other places
we had in Chicago. 
You know, now 
we're in 2020...
There's like, so many 
more TV shows,
there's so much more 
representation, but then you
referenced in the book, 
very recently, getting called
a dyke in the street by 
someone who has no agency
to say that to you, and 
you've also mentioned that at the
end of still many of your shows 
people come up and say you're
the first gay person that 
they've met so, you know,
where do you think that we 
are in terms of that visibility
and why is it still really 
important to be talking about
and advocating for 
LGBTQ identity and
acceptance and celebration?
CAMERON: Well, first of all, 
I do want to say that
my life has taken some very
 strange twists and turns because
when I... I wasn't even
 illegally downloading on
LimeWire, I have never known 
how to use one technological
thing, it's a miracle that I'm 
on Zoom, an actual miracle 
KRISTEN: Great. (Laughter.)
CAMERON: ...from God.
But my girlfriend had illegally
 downloaded it and I had
Ilene Chaiken, who originally created 
the show, on my podcast
a couple years ago and 
I apologized to her and she's
like, "No problem, steal it 
if you need to
steal it" and I think I just 
mention all of that because
the path that I thought I 
was on, as a person from Chicago
who then was like 
super challenged with 
realizing my identity 
in Boston and then...
Like I never thought 
that I would ever... 
the new L Word now is 
filmed not too far from my
street. I never thought I 
would end up being part of the
thing that's 
being represented.
KRISTEN: Another full circle!
CAMERON: Working in this field 
essentially since I was 19,
like I still feel apart from, not necessarily a part of.
Those early things, those
 early feelings of...
 "Oh my God, I'm not like my family.
Oh my God, I'm not like my community.
Maybe I dated the person 
that I didn't really want to date"
like those things persist, and
 sometimes it doesn't
matter what happens to you 
after that because you still have
that, you know, I mean...
KRISTEN: Yeah, we're still...
CAMERON: That feeling of that
outsider experience and
so that will always make...
 and by the way, I also assume straight
people have that, you know, 
like I assume everybody has an
experience where they feel 
like an outsider.
So it's really always going to 
be important to show marginalized
voices because like it helps 
us connect with the outsider
in us, you know...
 you can go to the L Word
premier and not feel like
 you are part of The L Word.
I guarantee you. 
We all feel that it is the "carrot".
It is... you're Gatsby and it's Daisy or whatever.
It's the light on the 
distant dock.
But in terms of like, where we
 actually are, I would also
say that marginalized 
voices always seem to
take up so much room in people's 
minds and imaginations that
it feels like there's a zillion 
of us: "Oh God, everything's
a black television show, right now!" 
Really like, just Issa Rae
has a show, you know? 
It's only 'Black-ish'.
Or like, "Ugh, queerness.
Everything is queerness!"
It's like we've got 
'Work in Progress',
we've got the new L Word....
That's pretty much it.
Kristen: We have 'Vida', I just 
started watching 'Vida'
CAMERON: We also have 'Pose' but I 
just mean like we're not...
all those things are still 
premium cable, you know, or
niche - aimed at an audience 
that self-selects so...
I just think there's also
always more space.
KRISTEN: Right, right.
CAMERON: We don't even notice 
when straight white dudes
make shows. They just make 
shows and shows. 
KRISTEN: Just, so much. And 
I didn't ask for another, did you?
CAMERON: So these are the 
'neutral' 'normal' shows, 
but we get four shows. 
Did I miss one? Vida, Pose...
KRISTEN: Of course there's more 
than four, but just in terms
of like those, you know, I 
hear what you're saying about...
CAMERON: It's representation, too. 
I think it's different to have
a show like 'Euphoria'
which has some great queer
representation in it, but is 
not about queer community
and that's also fine too, 
but it's not...
that's a different thing.
KRISTEN: Right and the point
being that we have to have 
all kinds of representation
so it can be nuanced because
 then we don't want to always be
looking and being like "Cameron 
is our one lesbian comic"
Right? Like you 
don't want that.
No one wants that.
Of course, that's 
also not true.
We know a lot of amazing
 queer women comics, but
that idea that by 
having more representation
we could become even 
more nuanced about our stories
which is what I love about 
your book and like about
so much of the content that
you're talking about because
they show just like such a 
breadth of where you've gone in your
career and... you look like you
 were about to say something.
CAMERON: I was just saying
 Mae Martin's show.
I was going to make sure
 to call out Mae Martin's
Netflix show. 
KRISTEN: What is it?
CAMERON: But it 
is called...
Oh my God.
What is it called?
Well, it's on Netflix...
Mae Martin's show...
KRISTEN: Oh, oh, oh 
yes, yes, yes...
Um, Feel Good... 'Feel Good'?
CAMERON: Yes! Feel Good!
KRISTEN: Yeah. 
CAMERON: But the other thing that I 
would say also when we talk
about, because I do actually
 hear that there are a lot of
queer comics now, sometimes 
people want to be like
"everything is queer"...Okay, so
 if we have those five shows
or however many shows, you know are 
centered around queer folks...
It's like...but that's how 
many we've also ever had!
KRISTEN: Right.
CAMERON: Like it's just, before that
it was just 'Queer as Folk' 
and 'The L Word'....
It's not like... we haven't been
 part of history for the whole
time and you know I say the 
same thing for queer comics.
It's like, we've always been here, 
but we have not necessarily
always had specials.
So I think we get to 
have a few specials.
KRISTEN: I would agree.
We do have some questions 
from the audience.
So I want to make sure that I
 give some time for that.
So this one is from Cohen...
"When did you realize 
you were good?
And that you had something
 really important to say?
Did it happen in Chicago or 
when you moved to LA?"
CAMERON: Oh my God, 
that's cool.
What a 
good question!
I think the thing about being a
 comic that keeps one coming
back to it is that you never
 think you're that good but you
think you're amazing right 
from the start.
If you have the personality where
the first time you do stand-up
you're like I am so good at 
this, but you also feel
utter shame, you should 
continue to do stand-up.
That's the 
right personality.
KRISTEN: (Laughter.)
CAMERON: For me what really
 changed my understanding
of self in terms of "Can I 
do this professionally?"
I was on The Late Late Show 
with Craig Ferguson a year to
the day after moving to LA,
 and so that was really like a
big shift because I had always 
thought well, maybe I can
do live performance but I 
thought I was... I really thought
that Hollywood would never 
want me. I thought I was too gay.
I thought I was too Butch.
Whatever it was. 
Too 'out there'. 
My jokes were too story-like. 
And then once I was on TV and
it went very well and I just 
felt like 'Oh, got it -
I can do this'
KRISTEN: So something like, clicked for you.
And I mean that was such a 
seminal moment for you.
I mean, I'll never forget that -
like when they called
you over to the chairs... 
I can't make that stuff up! 
It was incredible but even 
still though, I think
you are very 
very hard working.
And so they're sort of, I think,
 for a lot of creative people
this idea of making it and 
that they're really never
is "it" because you are going
 to always continue to make.
CAMERON: I wish I could have found
 like the exact passage in
the book where I talk about 
this, but essentially I have
this whole passage in here 
about like... 
I wish I could 
actually find this...
KRISTEN: What was it? 
I just plowed through 
the book again last night. 
So maybe I can find it.
Do you remember what it was? 
CAMERON: I found it.
KRISTEN: Oh nice!
We're getting a spontaneous 
reading from Cameron.
CAMERON: Um, yeah!
When I watched Tig Notaro 
or asked Maria Bamford those years
ago, I wasn't trying to 
figure out how to do this.
I'd gotten booked to open for
 them or ask for guest spots,
I was playing the game. 
What I wanted wasn't 
help figuring out how 
to do stand-up.
I wanted to level up, become
 viable, Pinocchio myself into
a real comic. I wanted to know 
how to do what I was watching
them do. I wanted to 
know how to do that. 
That is the impetus
 that drives us.
It's the reason any of us 
start doing stand-up.
It's the reason any of us 
start doing anything.
That is what we 
experience watching our
favorite comic live for
 the first time.
Hello again, Margaret Cho! 
That is watching couples emerge
from City Hall in Boston 
and thinking 'Huh?
I guess I could get 
married someday.'
That is when you hear 
somebody got a manager
or an agent 
or new faces.
It's a microphone-shaped 
carrot just out of reach.
The thing is you 
never reach it.
You never do that.
You might get to 
headline at clubs
you used to open and you
 might develop hours of material
to replace that first five 
minutes you wrote but you never
get to catch up with the 
comics who started before you and
you never get to the point 
where you understand
what moves you'll 
make ahead...
you'll make to get to the next 
level. The carrot always stays
out of reach or you grab the
 carrot and eat it and you're like 
"Fuck, I need another carrot!" or the
 carrot goes mushy in your hands.
Say you get a TV show on 
a new streaming service,
and then that streaming service
 shuts up shop, or you write
a great hour of material,
 record it, release it, 
and it's a hit. 
Either way, you've
always got to 
make more.
There's no one success or 
failure that makes you,
there's no perfect joke. 
Goals will blow up in front of you.
You'll wear the wrong 
vest and fail.
You'll wear another vest, still 
fuck up, and take an 80 block
walk. All of this is actually 
good for you, but it doesn't
feel good. It feels 
like shit.
I'm not suggesting that you 
should play the comedy violin
while the Rome of your 
career burns.
I'm saying that every comic,
 every person really...
go ahead and use this as 
an allegory, if you want
to be all 
Old Man and the Sea about it,
has had this experience
because every
comedy career is 
flush with it.
If you get every New Face or 
Fresh Funny or Best
30 under 60 female dog 
impersonators,
how will you ever recover 
when you're openly booed and get
your own TV show and then 
it's abruptly cancelled or your
brother-in-law makes off with 
all the cash for your sold out
Madison Square Garden 
run. Every comic
I respect in this field massively 
picks their shit up and
moved forward and they'll 
continue to do so, it's not
about getting beyond 
the failure.
It's about outlasting it. If you
 make comedy a lifelong career,
and you're lucky enough to 
live a long life, outlasting is
the answer - outlasting doubt,
outlasting failure - and keeping
a hare's short term goals 
in mind while running 
a tortoise's race. 
Boy, I really agree with 
myself, actually.
KRISTEN: I think that we can wrap it 
up now. I love that.
I mean, I think that's really
 true is that you know,
I like what you said about 
outlasting it, not lasting that
"failure" or the "doubt" 
and also look like you're
in a business or you're making 
material right and that you
can source from your life 
experiences, which is a great 
segue into a question from 
Chicago Humanity Festival's
very own, my dear friend,
 the incredible
Alison Cuddy.
CAMERON: Alison!
KRISTEN: She would like to know,
 she's bringing up something...
I'm glad that she brought this 
up because you just
referenced faith, friends, and family 
right? When you're saying
you lost the faith friends 
and family after coming out.
She said "You say you lost 
your faith coming out.
Have you found your way back?
And if so, what does that 
look like for you?"
And this will probably be, we 
might do one more if you want
to stay on for a little longer,
 but this might be one of
two last questions.
CAMERON: I just have to say,
 first of all, Alison Cuddy is
somebody that I once went up
 to at an audience, at a
show, and recognized. She 
was, at the time, one of my favorite
voices on WBEZ and I feel that 
perhaps most people did not
know what her face looks like
 because she was a radio personality.
But Cameron Esposito always
 does her homework.
So I was like, pardon me,
 Alison? Cuddy? Miss Cuddy? 
You're fantastic! But, I am still...
 one thing I know for
sure is that I absolutely 
believe there's 
a fabric to all of this,
a spirit to all this.
One thing that I don't 
know will ever
happen again for me is 
whether I'll have any 
sort of religion to go
 with my faith.
My experience with Catholicism 
was that I was raised culturally
Catholic and believed all the 
way, you know, I went only
to Catholic schools and I was 
all in and I had an experience
that maybe some people 
don't have... you know,
are even tourists in their own
 their own Catholicism, like
I was in. And so when I got to 
college and I found out like,
'Oh no, this is colonialism as 
also patriarchy as also abuse'
I just felt shocked and 
so I think that having that
experience of being so let 
down by an institution...
I don't know. I'm open 
to it not being with me.
But so far it still is. That being 
said the church, you know
doesn't necessarily get to be
 the holder of my beliefs.
KRISTEN: I thank you for 
being so open about
it in the book too I think 
there are a lot of people
who can relate to that.
It related like many things to 
this book about your Dad and
the process you had 
with your Dad.
I had very similar ones with 
my father who said he would,
you know never talk to 
me about it again.
I was really afraid of being 
cut out in school.
I was in college
 as well.
So, you know, it's a journey 
and I think that's something
that's really important for all 
of us to remember and you
remind us of that in your book
 which you know, a lot of this
book Save Yourself is about life
 leading up to around the
time in LA, which was
 surprising to me.
I really appreciated that
 because I'm sure you
could talk about for a long 
time all the fab things you've
done in the last few 
years, but this really
helps us understand you 
better, understand your
approach, especially in 
recent years as you've I think
been very brave to take on
 some really serious issues with
rape jokes, and the other things 
that you've done and also
being an advocate when you 
use that project for RAINN.
So thank you for everything 
that you do to be an advocate
Cameron, I'm 
really proud of you.
I'm so proud of the book: a best-seller
 during a pandemic!
You were set to tour, we were 
supposed to be at the Vic
today, which, you know, 
I'm sad about because
we wouldn't get 
to hang out.
But I'm glad to see 
you online instead.
It's been really 
really lovely.
I'm sure we could 
talk forever.
I know there's a couple 
other questions...
CAMERON: Can I say 
one thing before I go...
because I will forget. One thing
that has been
really important 
to me is that the book is
a best-seller at indie 
 bookstores and that is...
I want to make a 
huge pitch for. 
In Chicago, 
Women and Children First,
City Light, like
 you've got great
book stores there and 
many of them are still
shipping or you can also use
 the service that I did not know
about prior to this, called Libro
 dot FM - to buy an
audio book that also the 
proceeds benefit your local
bookstore so you can go...
KRISTEN: Is it you reading?
CAMERON: It's me reading the 
audio book so you can
buy the audio book 
on Audible.
You can also buy the book 
on Amazon, but if you go indie
right now what you're 
doing is supporting the
community that will hopefully 
be there when we all walk out
of our doors at 
sometime in the future
or you know, resume 
life in whatever way. So I just
want to say that.
KRISTEN: And you
have that on your
website, too, is that right?
CAMERON: It's all over
 my social media.
But yeah Libro dot FM -- 
super easy Libro dot FM or go
to your local bookseller -
 Women and Children First 
was my partner 
in Chicago.
KRISTEN: We love 
Women and Children First.
I don't know if they are 
shipping or not.
But any way that we can 
support them is so important
as an institution in Chicago 
and it's a best-selling book,
it's fantastic. And you 
have been doing some 
online Zoom conversations.
Is it over or you 
have one left?
CAMERON: One more tonight.
KRISTEN: Tonight!
So if you are enjoying this
 conversation with Cameron,
you can hear more 
from her tonight.
Can you tell us 
about that?
CAMERON: Yeah, it's at
 6 p.m. Pacific...
so that's in just an hour 
and a half and
it will feature Andrea Gibson,
 Vivek Shreya,
T Kira Madden and 
Samantha Allen tonight. I've had
amazing talks with folks like 
Roxane Gay and Carmen Machado
(inaudible) tonight is 
going to be...
It's going to be incredible.
Yeah.
They've been 
really good talks.
KRISTEN: So after our talk, 
after your chat tonight,
where can we catch 
anything else from you 
do you have anything 
else in the works?
Not that you need to be 
pressured to do so...
CAMERON: I have things in the
 works, so don't worry.
I'm hustling behind 
the scenes.
But really I think the easiest
 way for us to all stay
in touch right now...
I wish there was 
some different answer 
but... is social media.
So follow all 
my socials...
I'm trying to post everything 
that I'm doing and there is
hopefully more to come.
I'm in a scheming stage.
KRISTEN: I love that. 
I really do, as much as this
has been very frustrating at 
times and I don't want to
you know, spiritually bypass
 the really huge challenges
were all facing with this, but it 
has been very cool to see
the incredible like, resilience and creativity that has 
come out of people.
I mean you and I have talked 
more this week than we have
in a long time. 
It's been so nice.
I mean, I know a lot of people 
have had ability to connect
and chat with people and 
do creative shows like
the one that you were 
talking about with 
Cole's Open Mic, tonight 
my party - Slo-Mo.
Nine years running 
queer party institution
Chicago. We've never canceled.
It's at the Whistler where
you have done lots of things
 and we moved it online
when the pandemic it.
We're going to 
be in an hour...
Unfortunately when your show
 goes on, not to make people
choose, but you know, the 
internet - toggle back and forth
as we're all doing but... we 
moved our party online
and it's of course not the same
 to be in the same room with
a dance party with a DJ and
 the people or with a comic on
stage. But I think everyone's 
just so appreciative that we
have the ability to access art 
and entertainment in this
kind of way.
So I know that you agree 
with me Cameron, that supporting
artists, especially independent 
artists, makers, independent
bookstores, the independent 
artists, the musicians...
all the people that are 
putting content out there online
to make sure to 
support them.
If you can't financially it's
 great to support via social
media. And I know, Cameron
 you are @CameronEsposito
pretty much on 
all things right?
CAMERON: Yes, so I 
recently got a Tik Tok...
KRISTEN: You did? 
CAMERON: That's very funny.
But here's what I will say 
about what you just said...
I like, I hear you and I so
 commend the excitement
that you have and your... 
the joy you have for
what's going on right now, 
but I am so tired.
I'm tired of this shit. 
I'm tired of learning new skills.
Every day, just try to 
sort of figure out...
 like, this is impossible.
So I just want to say 
openly this is impossible.
KRISTEN: I appreciate that, 
thank you.
CAMERON: I don't have any
 sickness in my household, 
or like stress about 
cancelled work, but
the shit that I'm dealing with
 this like not even...
so many people are dealing 
with other monumental things
and so it's like... I like feel 
so sweaty all the time.
I do these events and it's fun 
and it does feel like connection.
I get off the thing and I'm like
'What even was that?'
Like, I just 
feel so tired.
My eyes hurt from staring 
at the computer... 
I just hate this, 
and also it's great.
I think it's great.
I hate this and I'm so 
grateful to Chicago Humanities
for having me, and don't ever 
ask me for anything again.
Not you, The World. But also, 
I'll be back here in five minutes.
KRISTEN: Right? I'll find a new 
shirt, new corner of my house. 
No, I actually really 
appreciate that you
said that, it's great note to 
end on - 'We hated it, bye!'
But I am really glad you said 
that because I think that
my joy and my enthusiasm is
 real but I think also just
as an observation to see the 
creativity, but personally,
I mean, you know, I feel 
caught in between and I'm
sure that you sounds like you
 relate to this between feeling
compelled, personally wanting 
to - compelled, as well as
some obligation as a leader
 and as a maker to put work
out and to try and engage 
people and connect people
then being really exhausted,
feeling inferiority complex
because I think what 
people forget is everyone
can see right now...
I'm in my living room 
or in your living room.
We probably both 
tried to find the
 like cutest cleanest 
part of it.
There's crap all over 
this table too.
We don't have sets 
in our house.
We don't have sweet
super backdrops.
We don't have audio visual 
we don't have teams 
and I do like the
 unifying part of that.
But I think it's so important for
 people to remember that
artists and people who are 
putting themselves out there,
especially on live when you 
can't troubleshoot anything,
it's really vulnerable and it's 
really exhausting and that's
why I mentioned being 
able to support people if
you can financially. This 
event is supporting 
Chicago Humanities Festival
which is a non-profit...
The plugs... 
Cameron Esposito, Kristen Kaza
Slo Mo Party, we're out here.
 Cameron and I are both contractors.
It's a very daunting future that
 we don't know what it means
for people like us, who 100% 
basically depend on audience
input and ticket sales and 
participation and sometimes
sponsorship but usually 
audience participation and ticket sales.
So I'm with you with that.
I some days are great and 
other days are really hard.
And actually I think that you 
know, I wasn't expecting to
talk about that.
But what's something that you
 do when you are having one
of those more difficult days 
and you might have some things
you have already 
committed to do online?
What do you do for yourself 
to get into a better place?
Not just for the audience, 
but for you?
CAMERON:  Well, I mean,
 I think that's just
why I was trying to be 
honest is I'm just trying
to lead with a lot of honesty 
and I don't mean in terms of...
I just am trying to do my very
 best to talk myself out of
managing other people's 
expectations or needs.
Like, yes this is affecting all 
of us in some ways.
But in a lot of ways like we are
 not in this together, you
know, I keep hearing we're in 
this together and like in many
ways we aren't because we're 
in our separate spaces and
this affects us all differently 
when you know, no matter
how it like it affects us 
differently than so many vectors.
And so, you know, this is a 
time when like the best
thing that we can do is sort of 
take care of ourselves and
I don't mean that in like a -
'kick somebody else in the face'
I mean like 'make sure that I'm
 being as honest with myself
as I can so that I can be of 
greater service to the
community' and so that's 
really why I've been continuing
to to create work is to stay 
sane and I think I just think
 this is a time to have
 real conversations with
friends and real conversations
 on the internet and we don't
need to only show the 
bread making 
you know, we can also 
show the like absolute
delirious eyeballs 
and that's all of it.
KRISTEN: I appreciate that, 
such a beautiful note to end on. 
I'm really glad that you said 
that because that is the reality.
I think we can hold both and
 remember that this is unchartered
territory, but I'm so appreciative 
of everything that you've
been sharing.
I think you know, I'm definitely 
not going to use the phrase
everything happens for a reason
 for all the reasons
why it's not okay to say something 
like that, but I do think
it's incredible 
what you've done.
Wow. This book has come out 
and you're unable to do your tour, so
everyone who tuned in to hear
 Cameron and I's conversation:
you can hear more from Cameron on 
her last Zoom show tonight.
You can join me and my party 
Slo-Mo Party Slow Jams for Queer Fam
is a queer party institution.
Chicago allies are welcome as
 well. Information for that at
slowmoparty.com and that's 
8 p.m. Central on
Slo Mo Party Instagram
 and we'll
be Zooming as well.
And then I also to make sure 
that we give a really big thanks
the AV Club for the partnering
 on this digital then everyone
in this conversation everyone 
who made this conversation
possible. I also want to give a
 shout-out to the ways that
Humanities Festival put this 
together with these producers
sending us a little Zoom notes 
and being very professional
about everything please support 
Chicago Humanities Festival
you are able to watch this for
 free but they appreciate tickets
and donations.
So you want to make sure to 
support and follow 
Chicago Humanities Festival for that 
and I also want to give a really
hearty thanks to all the 
healthcare workers and all the workers
who are on the front 
lines that have jobs that 
put themselves at risk.
We appreciate you, 
we're grateful for you.
And we also want to say thank
 you to everybody who is able
to stay home and save lives 
and we hope to be seeing
more of you.
Cameron -
congratulations, my friend.
I love you.
I'm so proud of you and we'll 
probably be chatting on the
internet again soon.
Who knows I want to make sure...
I think I got everything in one more shout out for 
ChicagoHumanities.org/donate
We want to keep supporting
 Chicago Humanities Festival
your support for them allows
 them to continue to do this kind
of content, 
Cameron -
Is there anything else you 
want to share with the audience?
CAMERON: Well, I just wanted to thank 
Chicago Humanities Festival
for having me and just to say...
yeah, that is really
how I'm making through 
is that it turns out
that you know, like I said
 earlier, we do know 
each other for a 
real long time.
And so I feel very happy to 
have the whole, you know,
the whole festival even 
 offered this time.
I was there, I think,
last year and doing a live
show. So anyway, that is 
something to say whatever you
can do to keep the places 
that you love afloat.
KRISTEN: Right. 
Everything that we can do. 
Sometimes it's not 
a money share.
Sometimes it's a 
social media share.
That's the incredible thing 
about all of this online content.
We all can take a role in 
supporting it. So support arts and
culture. Thank you, 
Cameron, my friend.
I love you.
I'll be seeing you 
again soon.
CAMERON: Have a great 
rest of your day.
It's daytime here.
KRISTEN: I have a fake light 
on right now. 
Good luck with your show!
Thank you, Chicago Humanities Festival.
Thank you, AV Club.
Thank you everyone for 
tuning in. Cameron... 
So proud of you, my friend.
Keep doing great work.
Love you!
Bye, everyone.
