(upbeat music)
- My name is Hannah Garibaldi,
and I'm a PhD student
here in the Film and Media
Studies Department at UCSB,
it's my great pleasure, seriously,
to introduce Darya Zhuk, the
director of "Crystal Swan".
I also, again, want to,
before we get started,
thank Sarah Lerner, who's my dear friend
and fellow graduate student,
and she helped me devise these questions
and organize this event.
So to get started Darya, "Crystal Swan"
is your first feature film,
can you describe the
arc of your relationship
with film as it developed
from the previous short films
and projects you've
undertaken until this point,
and how this story emerged for you?
- Hannah, thank you so much for having me
I wish I was physically in Santa Barbara,
I have so much love for Santa Barbara
since I grew up in post-Soviet Union,
watching "Santa Barbara", the soap opera,
we'll had this like uncanny fascination,
with this town, with this particular town.
And it's interesting,
I never thought I was
gonna be a filmmaker.
Actually growing up, I was so consumed
by the changes in the society,
I was a teenager here in Belarus,
just one of the post-Soviet republics
and Soviet Union fell apart when I was 11,
and we have such an avid
conversation about the economics
that I thought that maybe
I'll follow this other path.
It's not gonna be storytelling,
it's gonna be something
altogether different
than my first education,
I have my first diploma as a bachelor,
I studied for economics.
Though, like during that process,
I was thinking electives
and I discovered film
and it was like something,
it was like love from first sight,
I was like, okay, this
is what I have to do.
And of course, it took me
another decade, another 10 years
to figure out, how do you
actually pursue this career?
And I always dreamt of coming
back to my hometown in Minsk.
So, I was 16, I went to
Northern California to study,
I was a high school senior on
one of the exchange programs
that were so popular in late 90s,
and then I went to college here in America
and that's kind of, that's what
formed me as an individual,
these two, the East meets West.
- Wow, it's so interesting that
your degree was in economics
because your film is so accomplished,
so that's really impressive
that you've made that move.
Okay, well, I mean, it's great,
and I know that you've made
a lot of short films as well,
my colleague, Sarah Lerner,
I know has watched a lot of them.
- Thank you so much, they're so perfect,
they're like things
that you're trying out,
trying out this, trying out that,
but I have to say I did go to film school
and I really love my film school,
it's Columbia School of the Arts.
We have an MFA program here in New York
and just an FYM self-quarantining out,
just outside of New York and Lanai Island,
so you could see the
greenery here (laughs)
- Okay.
- It's all American.
But yeah, there's some school,
like, that's how I made a lot
of different types of work
and of course, I just didn't think
like there will be an opportunity
for me to really go back
'cause I was splitting my
time between Moscow and Minsk,
and still having a base in New York
and split my time
and actually go and do
my first feature film
back in my home country,
it just seemed like very, the
kind of an impossible task
I have to say, in the beginning
stages of this project.
But it just something, is
like I had so much passion,
like, there was just such a drive
that just something, it was
something so personal for me
in this film that I was like,
okay, whatever it takes,
like I'll talk to everybody
who can help me out with this project,
and I have to say, of
course, it was a joy to make.
- Yeah, well, speaking
of going back to Minsk,
I know that the first
time I watched this film,
I did not know much about Belarus
and since, I've learned a lot more,
but I thought it'd be great
if you could maybe describe
a little bit of the historical
context for the film,
and specifically,
the kind of complicated
Belarusian political situation
in which this film takes place.
- So Belarus is a small Soviet republic
that Soviet Union fell apart
and so all these republics,
all the satellite republics
became independent countries.
Belarus is interesting
because it's like stuck right
in between Russia and Poland,
so it's like right on
the border with NATO.
Essentially in Russia, of course,
claimed as an ally very quickly
because they needed it to be pro-Russian.
So what happens, of
course, I chose a period
that I myself had so many feelings about.
I was still in Minsk, when the
film takes place it's 1996,
so I felt like I really knew
what I was talking about,
but it also like the most hopeful time
that I thought of like
in Belarus in history.
So what happens is 91,
Belarus becomes an independent country,
in 94, a new democratically
elected president
comes to power,
and then in 96, when the film takes place,
we lose our democracy
and it becomes, an autocracy
becomes a dictatorship
because he fires off the Supreme court.
So there's like a stage,
it's almost like a year
where there were like two different paths
that you could take
and suddenly you take a particular one.
And now of course, it happens very much
in the background, in the film
but as I was working in it,
I found more and more inspiration
in this particular year
because like as you see,
some of the demonstration that
you see really did happen,
and I really did address
like, the film does happen on April 26,
which is when Chernobyl happened
but many years later
there was a demonstration
sort of memorializing
the victims of Chernobyl
that turned political
and people were arrested
and it was like the first sign
of the oppressive government.
But now to jump, jump, jump back to 2020,
it's so fascinating
that we're having this
discussion right now
because this actually the same thing
that's happening right now in Belarus.
But it took 24 years for the
same kind of thing to happen,
when there's like a huge awakening
and people are in the streets
and many people are arrested
and yet everybody's just
speaking what they...
I felt like in 96 was the last time
where people of Belarus spoke up,
and then kind of the political
leaders crushed them down
and was like in a certain,
it followed a certain route.
And it's only right now
that I feel the same energy
that I felt when I was
16, I'm 40 right now,
it just feels like I lived
a couple of lifetimes
and maybe we have to,
there's something we have
to thank coronavirus for,
it's like this amazing awakening
of civil rights movements
all over the world,
there's really, like a huge push
to really think about the
world that we wanna live in
which just makes me so excited.
- Yeah, and that's so interesting
and my next question was actually gonna be
about how you thought this film
related to the present moment,
because I know we have a
very big election coming up
with Luther Shango,
and so, I mean, you kind
of answered that question,
which is great.
I mean, it's interesting too
because Velya, if we transported
her to the present moment,
if it's, has that same kind of
resonance as it did back then
maybe she'd be making
TikToks or something.
And so that was-
- Oh my God, yes, yes, totally
or Zoomer.
Of course, I couldn't have made this film
if I said like, okay, this
is present day Belarus.
This allowed me, the fact that I said it,
90s allowed me a little
bit of a buffer between me
and unspoken censorship in the country
that I could say like, oh, look
like, it's not really about right now,
it's really about before
we started this new journey
that we're on.
But of course, it touches
upon all the same subjects
we have a huge brain drain,
a lot of young people that are talented
leave the country annually,
I mean, we have a
negative population growth
or population decline
since then with some,
all these things are so very present,
but they're present beyond Belarus.
They're also very relevant
to Ukraine, to Russia,
to Georgia where this film did really well
because it just spoke
to like the questions
that young people face
is like, should I build my life here,
or should I build my life elsewhere?
- And that's definitely
something Velya faces
in the course of this film.
So moving a little bit
into the production itself,
I wanted to ask, in your own words,
what's the kind of artistic lineage
that you feel most connected with,
politically and aesthetically,
and how has this shaped your approach?
- It's such a good question,
but I don't know if any
artist, any filmmaker really,
they approach their journey,
but they are like, oh, I
like this, I like this,
but you're never that analytical
about things that went into your process
but of course, now that
I lived with this film
we've been showing it to people for,
we literally two years ago,
we had a premiere at Karlovy Vary.
So I spoke to a lot of people
and kind of saw it through their eyes.
Through their eyes I saw both
Eastern European influences
and both American-Indie influences
and so it's just such an exciting journey
to recognize yourself
through their eyes of others
because you kinda just
follow your intuition,
I mean, you're really just like,
how does this story want to be told?
Like, I will always relaying the script
and I just look for ideas
from the material itself.
But I kind of, of course,
some of the influences
are reflected on screen
and since I did spend
my twenties in New York,
I really loved Jim Jarmusch
and I love Susan Seidelman,
with desperately seeking Susan,
I'm just so just bizarrely happened
that Alina also looks like Madonna,
which was so not expected,
it was just like came,
it just landed in my lap
and I'm like, okay, I just have to use it
and I have to.
I really didn't have,
in the back of my mind,
I was like, maybe I should
rewrite the script for her,
but I really just didn't
have time to do it.
So I just had to stick
to like, okay, this is what it's gonna be.
So they're like this American Indie films
that I really love,
but then also they're
Eastern European filmmakers
that I kept watching rewatching,
and it's not,
I mean, I know when we
think of Eastern Europe,
we think Tarkovsky,
but that's obviously like you could see
that my film is not about long take
and it's much more humorous, I would say.
So, I mean, I think I
really enjoyed the films
by for instance, like Kira Muratova,
who is a Jewish-Ukrainian filmmaker
that worked in Odessa
and just recently died.
I wish her films were more
widely accessible in America.
So it's like I have this
mixture of East and West,
but I'm trying to make sense of myself.
It's like, it's very hard for me
to like clearly place
myself in the hierarchy
So, Hannah, I rely on
you to see what you see.
Of course, I love "Ida"
and that's sort of, we
kind of thought about it,
but to tell you the truth
when my director of photography came
and she's Brazilian-born
a Mexican-based filmmaker,
she's Carlina Costa.
We watched "Lucrecia Martel" together
which is an Argentinian filmmaker.
Like, we just was like, okay,
what do you like, what did you respond to
in the past 10 years,
and we came up, we we're
thinking about some ideas
about the camera movement
which is just not something
you would think right away
when you watch "Crystal Swan",
but yeah did come in
into our conversation.
- Yeah, I mean, that is something
that I really noticed watching this film
the second time through, especially
was how carefully the camera
moved at certain moments
and it was static at other moments,
so you can tell it's very
carefully constructed.
So it's really interesting,
I mean, speaking of the kind of background
of the different people
that worked on this film,
also taking note of the fact
that this was a co-production
amongst numerous countries
with support coming,
especially from
BelarusFilm and Nashe Kino.
I was just wondering
if you can describe the film's
production within Belarus
and especially it's association
with BelarusFilm studios.
- I mean, it wasn't an easy
collaboration to put together
because we have a character
who is obviously not something
that the regime and more
conservative regime would support
they're very careful like
I send them the script
a couple of years before
I actually went into
production on this film,
and it was a very cold reception.
And then when I already had some supports,
for instance, I had a
German fund supporting me
and some independent vice films
surprisingly give me a little
bit of the starting money
for this film,
because they believed in the story,
they believed in me as a director,
like, other people want to jump on.
So they were definitely
the last ones to come in
and then, yes, at that point,
when they knew it was
going into production,
they wanted to be a bigger part of it,
but it was like, it was
just a little bit too late.
I mean, partly it was also,
I have an amazing Belarusian producer
who's also an independent producer
who's based there, who makes work
and working with state funded studios
it's just a whole other,
it's a complicated thing
because they're very bureaucratic,
there are many hoops to jump through.
So we were lucky that
it was an hour terms,
that they didn't invest
the majority into the film.
I mean, what happens with countries
that want to control content,
and specifically right now in Belarus,
of course, there's like such push
to control any kind of media
with upcoming election in August,
they have the new ministry of information
that just is arresting telegram bloggers.
And now there's just such a desire
to control what ends up on screen
that you really benefit from having
international co-production
because then you have group
of people coming together
and you have more than one opinion
on what has to end up
in the film at the end.
I do have to say
that when we were releasing
the theatrical version of the film
I did have to take out this last scene
where she is just in, I
literally couldn't show people,
walking down the street,
there was already for
them, hugely controversial.
So, they just like, they refused
and it wasn't that it just
went to the censorship,
it was a private distributor
who's like, I'm not gonna risk it,
I'm not gonna put it out like this,
You have to take this last,
I don't know, it's like 30
seconds, 20 seconds out.
- That's the scene with
the protest, right?
When they're on the bus-
- That's protest, yeah.
Even when I was filming
it my Belarusian producer,
he was like, that's it,
you have to schedule for the last day
of the shooting period,
because you could literally be arrested
and then at least we thought
that like, okay, it's the
last day I'm arrested,
but at least I have the
rest of the film in the can.
Of course, like me, it's funny
because just things, they happened,
but they happened in 2010.
So it's like people kind of forget
and now it's happening again
and then you're like, oh
wow, I do remember it,
that is like a very much reality,
but then you so quickly forget
that your phones could be tapped
or it's really a threat
and of course, I travel so much
and I live in New York
and I shoot hear,
and I've made films in Berlin and Tel Aviv
and that to me, it's like,
oh no, I live in my mind,
I'm in a much more open world
than really I am in Belarus
where you can expect
anything, it's not (laughs)
- Well, I'm glad you're okay,
and everything worked out.
- It worked, of course, so good.
- I mean, that brings up another question
about where this foam was screened,
was it actually screened in Belarus
and did censorship get
involved with the screenings
that were the local screenings?
- So, yeah, so we cut
out this last 20 seconds
and you saw the version
that specifically, says 96
I have to release and Belarus
would just have to say 90.
So we pretended like this was
a time before the president
that is currently, it's
been in power in 26 years
before he came to power.
And that actually invited a
lot of criticism in Belarus,
we were in theaters for a month,
it was like, it was the most
successful Belarusian film,
independent Belarusian film
that wasn't to date,
a lot of people saw it,
it was really, really exciting,
but invite a lot of criticism
because of course it says,
it's not the beginning
of 90s and the mid 90s,
they actually deferred a lot,
like people saw how people dressed,
how people talked, 91 words total cares,
96 is already some kind of sense
of she would already know a
little bit more about America,
she would actually have this desire to go.
And it's also really tied to
my experience with house music
and this subculture and
the underground culture,
which is so important to me
'cause it was like so
much Western looking,
Western forward-looking,
it was like, wow, this idea of freedom
that definitely didn't exist
in the beginning of the 90s,
that definitely came into being in 95, 96.
So when I was like, oh, I changed
my film to show in Belarus
and then I'm criticized that
it doesn't look like 90s,
it's really painful,
but it was, I mean, at
the end it was fine.
I think we were lucky that
it was a year and a half ago
because it was like that
period, there was no election,
it was like suddenly, an opening
and maybe a more liberal opening
and maybe an opening of hope.
But it also wasn't theaters in Russia,
in Ukraine and in Canada,
it was really crazy, wonderful journey.
- Yeah, and Santa Barbara,
which is where-
- And Santa Barbara.
- Yes, so moving on,
'cause unfortunately you have to move on
to the film itself
'cause I know this historical background
and context is so fascinating,
but I also wanna hear about the film.
So, one of my big questions was,
you used a four-three aspect ratio,
which is different than I think
a lot of people are
accustomed to in terms of it,
you have the pillar boxes on the side,
so it was just curious if you
could explain a little bit
about the reasoning behind that choice,
it is a very clear choice
in terms of the production.
- It's interesting, the choice came
kind of late in the game,
and it was organically
came to me from the fact
that I was planning to use
a lot more credible footage
than I ended up using
and it started now you
see some archival footage
in the titles,
but there was much bigger scene
in the beginning and at the end
with our crowd footage,
that was originally,
the footage was shot in VHS
and it was originally four by three.
So I started to think like,
what if the rest of
the film doesn't change
and also stays in the same box.
And so, like I said,
I just started thinking about it
and started exploring it,
and I was really happy
a lot of my co-producers
just were not in production
with me in Belarus
because Belarus is just like
too crazy for them to go to.
So I was there by myself and my DP
and I was like, oh, let's
do it in four by three,
of course, she was in shock
and the first couple of days,
and then she's like,
wow, this is so exciting,
the sexually, when we started shooting,
it's like, I can not possibly imagine,
it to be any other aspect ratio.
of course, I know Andrew Arnold's work
and of course, I've heard her talk
about like a perfect portrait frame
and whether in heights,
she would talk about four by three
and how that really worked
for one main character
when we protagonist
and, as I started, like
that idea came to me
and I'm like, wow, this really works
because she's so
claustrophobic in this world
is in this, like she's like a bird
who wants to get out of it's cage
and this could really work,
when you have ideas,
but then when they
really work for the story
and they really help to
underline this metaphor
that's growing through all
the dramatic turning points,
that when you really think
like, okay, why I'm it's like
a worthy idea to explore?
- Yeah, so the formal elements
really mimic the kind of
internal state of the character,
which I think is something
that's so powerful in this film.
I've worked a lot with archival footage,
so that's actually interesting,
that was your initial choice
'cause that's what I was wondering
if it was to mimic the archival,
but it structurally fits with
the narrative itself as well.
So moving on, I mean,
you mentioned house music
and I wanted to ask,
house music, especially
the "Move Your Body"
from Marshall Jefferson,
plays a very significant role in the film,
structuring Velya and
spectators relationship
to Belarus, the United
States and to Velya's sense
that she belongs elsewhere,
how did you imagine the
narrative and political role
that house music performs
for Velya and her viewers?
- So, I spent sleepless nights
in between my editing
sessions looking for music
and I have to say, of course,
I was a raver way back in the day.
They would that this is
super personal journey
especially through this music.
I was like, okay, the
music should support...
The film itself speaks literally,
like you just meet this character,
you meet the protagonist
who says, I want this,
I have this dream,
how do you support it
because there's, how do
you explain her passion?
And I thought that like, okay,
I could support it with music
that it supports the story.
So these sleepless nights,
I dig back into my old, DJ archives
and I knew, those, like
I only had two options,
it was like either Detroit,
Techno or Chicago House
'cause they could be tight to America
and tight to her dream
and tied to her obsession
because I definitely met people growing up
who were obsessed with this kind of thing,
they would be like obsessed
with British Britpop
or just with American music.
And then like there was
a lot of imagination
because they couldn't afford to travel
there's a lot of imagination
that went into their feeding
their festive dreams.
So it turns out that
not a lot of house music
is still, I mean I love it right,
but a lot of it is very repetitive
and it's very hard to use in the film.
And they are like very few tracks
that actually develop
and they're the trucks that were iconic
that I felt like, wow,
that I really wanted to be in the film
because what it speaks
to the characters wants,
I want freedom.
Of course, she interprets
it in a little bit,
like through her own rose glasses,
obviously that community
was, all the freaks,
all the LGBT, the trans people,
it was like, if you're
different you belong to us
and that's what they were manifesting.
She interprets it,
a different kind of freedom,
but also sort of ties to her freedom
of self expression in a way.
So I just thought that
when I reacquainted myself
with these tracks, I'm
like, wow, this is exactly
even the lyrics of it supports the film.
It's kind of,
so a lot of these artists recording
in late 80s, beginning of the 90s,
they were quite poor and
they were experimenting
and, apparently there's
one label tracks records
that's based in Chicago,
bought out all their rights.
So it was one person who owned
who just unfortunately,
and rest in peace,
he just died from coronavirus.
But the owner of Track Records,
but he had the rights to
all of these iconic tracks
and we went through parole on negotiation.
'Cause he's like, the
prob song from, Belarus,
so he didn't know why (laughing)
- Wow, that's so interesting,
I mean, yeah,
the music is so evocative
it particularly again,
it's strategic moments,
when she's packing
and she's just rocking out
and moving her body, right?
But yeah.
- Yeah,
of course I wanted something
that like she could really listen to.
So I had, I was stuck in like 94.
Okay, maybe early 94, 95,
but not later than 96 that I
was trying to find something,
there is one track in the film
that is a more contemporary track,
that I fell in love with
and I just, I was like, okay,
this is some artistic freedom here,
I'm not a documentarian,
but generally I was trying to,
even the music that she's
running down and the music
where her mom speaks over the music
that's on the end of the film
was also written in 94.
- Wow, yeah,
it's so interesting,
I mean, yeah, moving,
unfortunately you have to
move on again a little bit,
I'd love to talk about house music all day
but I think, one of the
things before we move on
to audience questions
that I think is really important to ask
in relation to this film,
is particularly the sequence
regarding sexual assault.
So Velya strong rebuke
of sexual violence,
to Kostya the young boy, in the household
following her rape,
frames her journey, in
the film "Crystal" film
"Crystal" film is one of the first films
we've seen where in a protagonist
condemn sexual violence
with such strength
that it almost breaks the fourth wall,
meaning it looks,
I mean, for those
that maybe aren't as
aware of film parlance
means they look directly at the screen
as if they're looking at the viewers.
Velya speaking to Kostya
but she is also speaking to spectators,
for you, what does this moment
mark on Velya's journey?
- It's so exciting that
you felt this moment
so viscerally, it means a lot to me
that you describe it this way.
I have to say this moment
was often, polarizing,
in kind of the way different people
of different gender,
viewed this film in Eastern Europe,
but in particular, we made
this film, Helga and I,
Helga, my brilliant screenwriter
that we collaborated with
who is also a poet and
the filmmaker herself,
she made some wonderfully complex,
documentary films about (foreign language)
Very connected to Eastern Europe,
even though she lives in New York.
We made it before Me Too movements
so that thing, it just wasn't
prevalent in our minds,
but somehow as we were talking
about our growing up from,
she grew up in Moscow, I grew up in Minsk.
There was a sense that
there's a constant danger
that you encounter,
that we couldn't ignore,
and if we were to really imagine
what would be like for
Velya to go to a small town,
and be this like, very-
- Cosmopolitan?
- Yeah, cosmopolitan
and just be so brave,
she wouldn't counter
aggression towards her.
Like, it just wouldn't be
just the verbal aggression.
I mean, it's almost like I understand
Stepan, in his point of view,
she's almost asking for it.
So just came from a really
personal place that push back,
I have encountered some men being so upset
with what they saw,
they're like, that's not true,
this is not how it would happen,
this never happened.
And then, my mother who
never, for instance,
talked about anything like that happened,
she's a journalist
and she travels to a lot of smaller places
and interacts with all kinds of people.
She's like, she finally broke down
after the premiere of the film
when she did tell me, oh, wow.
I've had a situation like that.
I would say that the rates
of rape are really high.
They're just not reported,
it's just something
like, it's kind of the victim
blaming a place like you're,
it's your own fault.
So those are,
it was an interesting discussion to raise,
but I just almost felt
like in this situation,
it couldn't turn the other way.
The story couldn't have gone any other way
because he's, yes, he's friendly
and yet he has this aggression,
he just came out of army
where he also was a victim.
So it's just like all lead there for me,
even though I know it seems like,
when you don't read between
it's just like, you want to
believe he's not this guy.
But that's something that
is so part of the culture
and so like okay, yes, okay,
it's almost like this discounted,
so it was an interesting process,
that scene that you're talking about,
where she almost breaks the fourth wall,
it was actually really
hard to direct Alina
because there's such a thin line,
I know that you think he raped her,
but a lot a lot of my male viewers
are like, I really want
to see her rape her
and then me and Carlina, of course,
we're not interested in showing it,
it's pretty obvious to us.
So it's like in interesting
thin line to walk
and of course, it just underlines
this whole gender divide
between interpretation
and how women and men exist in the film,
in the context of the film,
you see a lot of women,
you see the one, you
see the father smoking,
you see the father looking,
but he doesn't do anything,
but you see women at the post office,
you see women helping you go to the,
selling you a bathroom ticket,
it's just a lot more active.
And I only realize that
after I made the film
that there was like the such a push,
such a gender divide,
and then there was quite a feminist film.
Yeah.
- Yeah.
I mean, but I think that that
discussion she has with Kostya
and the fact that he
leaves with her at the end
is so important,
because he's getting taken
out of that situation,
where there's these very strict gender
kind of patriarchal structure in place,
so I think that that her
relationship with Kostya
is so important for this film as well.
- Definitely, and I was very excited
to find this actor who played Kostya,
he lives in Minsk
and he just was so wonderful to work with,
but I wanted to leave some hope
and of course, he represents
that like that it's possible,
even though he goes into ether
and probably has to come
back to his family very soon,
but there's this desire for change.
And then they don't have
to accept the old ways,
that's definitely something
that was in Helga's
and mine's mind.
- Yeah, no, I think you can feel that,
at least I felt that hope at the end,
that's that little piece
that gives you hope.
So at this point, I'm gonna turn it over
to audience questions,
so we have our first question
from Ricardo Eid,
he says your personal story,
a personal story is Valya's dream,
getting a visa and going to America.
Please, I would love to know
how much a Valya's character
is autobiographical and
relates to your own story.
- So sweet, it's not my story,
I do have to say that
I overheard the story
of his story is shared by
several friends of mine
and that's why sometimes
it's a little bit clunky
I think, I feel like if you
work to come up with the story,
wouldn't be the so complicated
visa, the number, the going,
but it really happened.
And maybe the best gift that
a friend of mine gave me
was to say like, yes,
I went to the small town
and you did not wannna know what happened.
She kind of left it hanging,
and then over the years I kept asking her,
like, it's a great idea for the film,
but what happened to
you in this small town?
She wouldn't say,
and as I started working in the film,
I've heard so many
stories similar to this.
and the craziest one
is I have a friend who's also named Dayra
who is a DJ in Minsk,
who maybe applied and tried
to lie on her American visa
for, five to six times,
and she has like, just
the most, ridiculous,
stories of oppression tried to trick it.
So definitely spoke to a group of people,
of course, I, myself wasn't, yes,
I was a DJ.
I really loved house music,
I came to America to go to
school to go to college.
So I didn't,
I'm not as crazy as brave as Velya
but I admire her, I really admire her.
- Yeah, definitely,
So I have another question here
from Miguel Annabella,
at one point Velya says that
nothing changes in Belarus
did you share that belief in the 1990s
and what kinds of changes
have you seen since then?
- I do share that belief,
it's actually been
quoted quite a few times
over this of this election period.
I feel like maybe now,
there's a hope of change
only right now,
but it's been quite stagnant,
it's just been like that.
and maybe that's why the
film has been relevant
two years ago, nothing has changed.
It's only recently that,
my parents who are, active and Belarus,
that have made their political stand
so like now I'm a little bit more open,
about talking about it.
because I just don't feel like, Oh,
also had the wonderful
people who worked with me
on making this film
and I was always afraid for their safety.
So I would always just like,
just say this question is just,
I could never answer this question,
but yes, I do feel like
nothing has changed.
- Wow, okay.
So yeah, very relevant then still today.
And hopefully, I mean,
maybe one hopes it's not as relevant,
but people will still
look at it in the future
as emblematic of a certain period.
So I have another question here
from Janice Taylor,
were you only thinking of this
as this is going back to
the sequence with Kostya
and the sexual assault,
so she asks, were you
only thinking of this
as an actual sexual assault,
or including it as a
more symbolic statement,
of the culture there and the power plays
within the politics?
Could you, and then she also asked,
could you also speak about the tattoo
and all that represents?
- The tattoo represents,
that he was also a victim in the army,
that the two says "the bitch" sukkah,
which means that he was
molested in the army.
And so this is he's like claim,
he's like the lion King,
trying to claim back his
kingdom when he comes back.
So in a way, the rape is
inevitable from his point of view,
because he has something to prove.
like he's a victim turn
from his psychology.
And I know it's hard to read,
when you don't know
these cultural signifiers
and I just I knew he
was gonna be difficult.
I mean, in terms of like,
do you ever make symbolic movements,
symbolic gestures in the film,
I tried to stay away from it
like, I don't know if you
ever go into telling a story
and saying like, oh, I
have this great metaphor.
You always say, no,
I have this great story,
I have this great story of a girl
who just wants to get out of her country
and has hard time doing it.
And I'm glad that it emerges,
and you could analyze these other things
that emerge later on,
of course, I have something to say
about the gender relations there,
how aggressive they are,
and how hard they think
that the idea of consent is
not something that exists.
Exist there or the way they use language,
and there definitely like,
this is just opening up
right now as a conversation
but when I thought about
symbols and metaphors
I thought about, obviously "Crystal Swan"
and how her fragile she was,
and this woman that worked at the factory,
like how hard it is,
just these marks on a glass,
how violent it is
and that she does emerge still together
even though she's totally
just like violently marked,
by this experience.
But that's for me was more of a word
like this potent metaphor of the film
and then as I thought about "Crystal Swan"
and just there's like more
and more we were finding
with my director of photography,
we were thinking about the
Zeus who turned into a swan,
so he could molest lit, just
like it's like a potent,
yeah, there are all these myths.
But maybe from this point of view, yes,
that we suddenly discovered
in the process of shooting
that the swan wasn't Velya,
the swan was Stepan
who was like disguised,
I'm your friend,
that I understand you,
and I'm gonna join you to
help you reach your dream.
- Wow, So "Crystal Swan"
became just very generative
almost as an entity within the film.
So I have another question
here from a Butterfly O'Shea,
she says the wedding scene
where two women were pretending
to be medical personnel
who give fake medication to the groom
is such a comic skit, traditional
for weddings in the 1990s,
from that culture or from Belarus.
- Definitely, way back in the day
when I just dive into filmmaking,
I went and I made a documentary
about my best friend
getting married, he was 20.
He's fiance was 21,
and with the absence of history,
because the history was wiped
out by the communist regime
and in a way all these traditional
for instance, Belarusian songs,
traditions that just,
it wasn't something people practice
so they came up with all these skits,
like, buying out the bride.
So it was basically like just lifted out
from my documentary,
by Helga, who was like, oh, my God,
this is insane, let's use this.
And so, yeah, because it just so absurd,
but it links to this
absurdity of the whole society
living in between state,
they're selling these
like wonderful crystal objects to survive
and yet there it's like
the mixture of high and low
and there's just something there
that I thought that just was funny
and sad and painful and beautiful.
- It's so interesting
because I know watching that, I again,
didn't know much about
the cultural context.
So it's interesting that
it actually is very,
realistic or emblematic of something
that would happen during that period,
so that's great.
So I have another question
here, from Emily, she asks,
what is the role of color
in the film?
Perhaps more specifically
the role of color
in framing Velya's journey.
- So it's interesting,
the journey to this particular picture,
of how the colors emerged.
When I started pitching the film,
the story itself was so sad.
I mean, ultimately, I didn't have Alina.
It was hard to imagine reading a script,
what this film would be like.
And so a lot of the feedback
that I would get from
Eastern European producers
is like there's almost a category of film
that a cold dark, it's
so dark, it's black,
you gonna make another black film.
And so, it was almost like,
but why,
my response to it was like, but why black?
Why does it have to be black?
And I started thinking about color
and, obviously I never had,
you have them to say
that when you go into
feature film production,
you suddenly have all these tools
that you haven't had before.
You can attempt them with short film,
but suddenly your work
with a whole other level
of crew that like you can
put something together
and say like, I just want this.
So, I started looking
at a lot of photography
and I realized that,
first of all,
the first idea that emerged
was like, of course, VLA is so bright
and it stems from a story
because she's a raver,
of course, she dresses
and that's what we did,
we tried to,
the subculture itself wanted
to differentiate itself
from the gray city,
the great post-Soviet city
so you would just dress all
yellow, all blue, all pink,
just something to say, yeah,
I don't know, like, I'm not you
I'm different from you.
So that was the first idea
and then we started, Carlina
and I started scouting
and we saw a lot of color
in this small villages
in the small houses,
because the reality was so great,
they tried to assemble
all these colorful details
all at home sometimes to
kind of comical proportion,
but there was such a desire
to bright up your experience,
that we took it
and said like, okay, this is
the color that we wanna use,
can we just lift it up a little bit
and support it with our approach.
So I didn't necessarily
assign meaning to every color,
but I just thought
that, okay, that the red
or red obviously stands out
red and blue are the opposite colors
that could separate her,
'cause that's how she feels on the inside,
she feels so separate from
everybody who's around her.
And then, that just kinda like lift her up
in her own eyes.
So that was the starting point
and how it developed.
But I love, of course, I love color
and I just really hope
that there will be another
opportunity to work this way.
- Yeah, I mean,
and also the yellow,
she wears that bright yellow shirt
and that also was just so,
especially in the landscape,
it was so vibrant, right?
- It was really, really wonderful.
Yeah, it was her own sweater
I have to say that she brought
and then she of course,
morns than that sweater
for the rest of (laughing)
like, you ruined my sweater.
There's something, something
must have happened to it.
Yeah, but it was, red, yellow, blue,
those colors just seem,
the primary colors
and is just, it's like
what if we use them,
and we combine them in the picture,
like what the experiment would look like.
- Especially in the contrast
from the woman working
in the factory as well,
'cause they're wearing blue,
but they're also wearing red,
I believe on their heads,
but it's very different in
terms of look compared to Velya
- But there's still these colors, right?
She has scarf in the blue,
and of course, when you
talked about careful framing,
of course, it was a lot
of careful collection
of these locations of the clothes,
because the production
itself didn't have the budget
to build something, we have to find it
and I was so lucky
that I had this permission
that Minsk couldn't change much (chuckles)
as I said, they're from the 90s
and of course, it did change.
But you could still find
these corners, right,
the corners where the
history didn't ruin it.
And of course, three
by four helped (laughs)
Just don't move,
it looks the 90s.
But I mean, I love that factory,
it was really,
the blue was there,
it was painted in the 90s,
they didn't touch it,
just like in the film wasn't functioning,
all year round,
they would have couple of work days
and then they would let their workers off.
So when I saw that I was just
like, so then green and blue,
I was like, wow, this is unbelievable.
- It's so interesting.
'cause you see also like the turnstiles in
the way they're putting in,
checking their cards and stuff,
and it's so interesting
it's still around,
so you were able to just use that
in the film without having to,
build something like you said,
or refashion something,
that's so interesting.
We have another question here
from Alexandra Noi,
I don't know if that's how I pronounce it,
I'm sorry if I butchered your name.
She says hello to Darya and Hannah
from a UCSB PhD student
in the history department,
and also native of Russia.
She's wondering if Darya could speak,
of how she envisions the
fate of her protagonist
in early and mid two thousands.
She was not able to leave the U.S.
and had to stay in Belarus.
Would she moved to Russia
and search for better opportunities
as many Belarusians do?
Would she pursue her DJ career
or her legal studies major?
Would she get married
and just forget about her dreams?
So basically the future of Velya,
what do you think she
would be doing after this?
- Hi, it's a hard one.
I imagined that,
she would pursue her DJ career.
I mean, the legal studies
she does not care about,
yes, that some of our young
people would go to Moscow,
but I feel like Ukraine was
more of a draw at the time.
Also, in early 2000s
and with impeding Orange Revolution,
that was just kind of like, wow,
it seemed more of a place to be.
Of course, I hoped,
with the ending of the film,
I do try to pose a question
that maybe she would,
even though she stays,
that she would consider other options
that, you could pursue freedom
and other ways
that you don't have to
leave your country to do it.
And of course, I'd want
to see Velya right now
on the streets
and then standing to vote
for alternative opposition candidates,
and I'd expect her to wake up
and do a rave for freedom.
- There we go, oh my goodness, yeah.
She could bring back house music
and make it even bigger now.
So we have another question here
from Catherine Lesky,
can you comment on the mother figure
as in Velya's as mother, is she
representative of nostalgia?
She also looks so California
with her practice of yoga.
- Oh, wow, amazing.
Right after the fall of Soviet Union,
the culture was flooded
with these esoteric
at the time we thought,
of course, yoga is a part
of just our daily life now,
we don't think of it as so strange,
but at the time it really
felt strange, I have to say,
and we didn't know if we were to trust it,
but because you didn't
have Lennon to believe in,
now you could believe in
all kinds of other teachers,
from India or whatnot,
So she does look,
it was just again, the
mixture of high and low,
like it just all mixed up
and you don't know right from wrong.
So at some point it's like,
it's almost like,
you don't associate it with,
you don't associate this very liberal yoga
with very conservative,
you should stay in your country
and I'm a patriotic
and I believe in Soviet Union,
but the time that was
really the case at the time,
and hello to anybody they're
out there who use European,
who remembers (speaks in foreign language)
and then crazy magicians
who would try to hypnotize
you through the TV,
that was like a very
popular thing at the time.
Of course, there were like charlatans,
but the old ladies who
grew up in Soviet Union,
they really believed that was true magic.
So yeah, even though she looks modern,
she represents this old way of thinking,
and that a lot of
Belarusians think that way
not my mother,
but definitely my grandmother.
But we're talking about 25 years earlier,
so it's quite possible
that someone her age would think that,
in what channel would channel this idea
that you should belong to
you were born, you should stay here,
stay here, now make a difference here.
It's not, I mean, it's not
a bad position to have.
- Yeah.
well, thank you.
I think we have,
I mean, one last question
before we let you go,
I wish we could stay here
and talk for a lot longer.
But I thought maybe you
could share a little bit
about some of your projects
you're pursuing now,
or hope to pursue in the future.
- Thank you.
I'm really interested in the fate of women
who have lived through
the breakup Soviet Union
or were just born right after.
So one of the projects
I'm working on right now
is a, story, is a biopic of several women
who formed feminine.
It's a Ukrainian radical movement
and I know we probably are
more aware of Pussy Riot,
but feminine are the women
who came up with this gesture
of taking off their shirt
and writing slogans on their naked body.
It now became an international movement,
but at the time it was quite
controversial in Ukraine.
It was not liked, it
emerged in 2008, 2009, 2010.
They eventually became
refugees and went to Paris
because they were accused of
being a terrorist organization.
So it's kind of like a heartbreaking story
about the women's friendship and betrayal
and while they're just
like taking on the world
in this really major way,
I just started getting interested
in the fates of very different women.
Last year I made a TV series,
called "Gold Diggers"
who're really about women
who just thought that
they could marry into
and succeed this way,
it's a fictional TV series,
a scripted TV series
but I'm just trying to
tackle this femininity
from different points of view,
and see how it goes and I'm very excited.
- Well, I think,
well, I can speak for probably many of us
that we're very excited
to see your future work
'cause this film is just spectacular.
I mean, that's why Sarah
and I were so happy
when you agreed to do this event.
- I am so happy I was able to share
and it's, like California
just seems like another part of the world
and of course, not knowing the context,
it's just so lovely that
this film translates
and I'm really, really happy
and grateful to Santa Barbara
International Film Festival
for showing it,
and I hope we see each other again.
- Yes, definitely.
So that's the end of our time,
unfortunately for this interview, again,
I want to thank Darya,
for graciously agreeing to
participate in this interview.
Again, I'd also like to thank Sarah,
for helping design this event,
you're really a co-team.
And also the Carsey-Wolf Center of course,
for creating this event.
And thank you to those of you
that joined this conversation as well
and I hope everyone has a great evening,
so goodbye.
- Bye, bye, follow,
I mean, find...
I do have an Instagram
account for the film
if you guys wanna follow the news
or share with your friends
It's @crystalswanfilm on Instagram,
and I'd be happy to answer
your questions further
if you have them,
if you still have them
and they're left-
- Thank you, thank you
- thank you.
- Okay, bye
(upbeat music)
