so hello good morning everyone
my name is Sergio kuvira this is it's a
pleasure for me to be invited to host
this live streaming interview with a
very good friend of mine actually
somebody I had the opportunity to to
work with we're going to be talking a
little bit about the British police
system and organized crime so Martin mr.
Martin Branagh welcome thank you thank
you so much for being with us today
he's mighty not now and now it's okay
yeah yeah we have a martin that are
direct from I'm not sure if he's in
Birmingham right now in the UK but we
always think he's in Birmingham yeah
that's good because you know this a
little bit later on on this show about
him being a real big blind or you know
really blinded what are you thank you so
much for being with us today it's it's a
pleasure and an honor to have you and
speak to the Brazilian audience
knowledge Brazilian audience because we
have people from Portugal listening
listening and our friend juju say he is
watching us you have people from Europe
and other countries as well watching
this is a good case to listen to all
this background they have to talk about
not only organize but a little bit of
the British British police they'll be
brilliant know
really really excited to talk a little
bit about peaky blinders but more
importantly the British placement system
so how helped share the knowledge across
the Europe and the globe by the sounds
of it so really happens to be here thank
you that's great I'm going to be very
quickly I know what's going on it is a
better not
maybe my my phone is not that good
I'll try so very briefly I'm gonna
present Martin Brennan Wagner I watched
him was funny
okay okay so let's try to keep so Martin
ban is a detective Superintendent
working with the region on organized
crime unit it has recently being
succumbed to the United Nations released
as a seasoned very nice crime adviser he
has over 30 years experience living and
reviewing covert investigation the main
lad kidnapped kidnapped in operations
targeted towards high-risk your videos
or group singing with in series in
organized crime
he has design and delivered significant
change projects within regional
confidential unit and implemented
implemented prevent strategies to
encourage early interventions and divert
tongue stir from being drawn into for
continual row with organized crime he
has supported many individuals in their
career and personal development and it
passionate about supporting colleagues
deliver the very best outcome to protect
the public Martinson is motivated by
continuous development and learning from
good practice and failure in feather he
has
wrong emphasis emphasis on well-being
which he sees as essential to a health
work-life balance outside work is a king
Mel Mel Tanner in skier combine his
leadership skills with his passion from
the outdoor he has a separate led over
30 charity expeditions across the globe
in Nepal Africa South Africa and
dogsledding in the article circle he's
still working on his Spanish and
practicing and Tibet and and
consistently or in the wrong dishes a
tapas bar this is a very severe short
bio from Martin spend time talking
because you're the big the big feature
today so once again thank you up for
being yourself available and to start we
start off it would be very interesting
with Jane's a general understanding on
how the British police system is
organized okay dog in online today so
hello from the UK to everybody that's
listening libel so so so do the the UK
police really in a sort of summary it's
it's split into sort of three three main
regions really so you've got the the
National Crime Agency so they look at
the National sort of police you look at
the regional police and you look at
locals so so the UK police is very set
up from local to regional to national
and the reason for that is that the UK
police
that's been been going on for a couple
hundred years now is very much policing
for the community and there's a line
between the regional to local to local
to regional and regional to national and
obviously that National Crime Agency
that we have as well can then reach out
across internationally to to all other
law enforcement partners so so yeah it's
probably best to just describe it as
you've got the National Crime agencies
you've got the regional crime units and
then you've got local police forces
which are there are 43 local police
forces covering covering the United
Kingdom okay we see that besides most 43
territorial forces he also had the
result they're also some may be some
national law enforcement is that like
the border force immigration enforcement
some other institution but they have a
very specific time I assume the
Immigration and UK border force home of
sort of revenue as well so taxis they
have secret separate organisations but
they sit pretty much or definitely
aligned to the National Crime Agency so
when you come to the UK through an
airport you'll see the UK border force
that they deal with all immigration and
so yeah you'll have specific departments
and organizations that also look at
other elements of law enforcement but
the three main ones are the National
Crime Agency regional and local
territory but then we can UK border
force and immigration and things like
that as well so yeah there are there are
addition a letís to that but they all
sort of talk to each other as well they
don't work completely separate
okay in regards to those 43 territorial
police forces are they independent on
their own I mean ability Iran state the
police commissioner or the police
constable how I think that's the proper
word in the UK are they independent and
if they're independent and their error
is there any national body in order to
standardize the procedures that is
doctrine SOPs like this or each one on
their own and to ensure and reinforce
the law so so so what each each each
place for so those forty three police
force it will have a chief constable
who's who's in charge of that force they
also have a what they call a police
crime commissioner who is like a locally
elected politician if you like that
holds that Chief Constable to account
for that area so in theory that Chief
Constable is responsible for the staff
in how the forces ran and and you know
so local policing but all the 43 forces
work under one legal system so you won't
have one falls out of those forty three
avenues completely different legal
system they all work on the sort of the
law of the UK land if if you like so
enforcing that shouldn't be any
different from whether you're in
Birmingham or Liverpool or London police
officers will be using the same powers
of arrest and the same court systems and
things like that so so what that then
gives is that the each chief is called
there's a national police chief's
council so there they're sort of
umbrella of those forty three chief
constables so when they want to go back
to certainly say the pol
additions in the home office or
ministers in the home office there's a
body of chief constables that can
represent the 43 if that makes sense so
yes each Chief Constable runs that force
in their own way though that they see
fit
but it's one of the same rules and
guidance and legislation and some
ministers back in the centre like here
in Brazil we have 20 let's say 27 26
states in one federal district and each
one has its their own police departments
their own structure but once we are a
federation the governments of each each
state has their own government and they
are autonomous so they don't have
Kuryakin say speak about helium afraid
okay can you hear me now can you hear me
now no hello no no no can hear you him
back in there can you hear me
I think I can hear you if you know I can
okay great
over here we have 26 states in one
federal district and they have like some
sort of independent they are they have
the autonomy Oh
even though the police institutions they
look alike but they have some
differences there are some differences
and we don't have a national body to
sterilize it with though because it's
not mandatory you know when we have a
national proposition to standardize some
sort of procedure if it's not a federal
law it doesn't have a lot of power you
know it does have a negative power that
that legislation so so it's very
interesting to see that all Larry
Constable directly are represented in
this National Party in order to issue
national legislation that not so on this
same line of thinking jeez I don't know
what's going on today are they the
police department structures the same or
similar but all forces will have to
deliver a certain service so for
instance all of them have to deliver 24
hours 7 police service so you have like
the front frontline cops if you like
frontline officers that all of those 43
so whenever you are in the UK if you
ring the emergency line you will get a
service whether it be the top of the you
care of the bottom so they all provide
that service and they all provide very
similar services as well in terms of
crime investigation riot patrol probably
Corder traffic special investigations
so each force will be slightly different
in terms of there might be more than one
one department than all of those but it
would be very unusual to go to one force
and they have no capacity or capability
to deal with a certain crime they ought
they all are able to do that I suppose
the only kind of exceptions to that and
you know the 30 years that I've been in
the police service it's changed quite a
lot so for instance and some forces
still have the Mountie branch so horses
they have horses to deal with crowd
control reassurance and things like that
where some of the forces won't have any
horses at all they just don't see the
need for them and they've invested more
time and money in other capabilities but
pretty much you know you general police
in your specialized policing and your
investigations each force will be fit
for purpose if you like to do that and
they have to they're inspected every
year as well to make sure that they are
efficient and effective of doing that so
there's a separate independent body
called imagine inspection that they're
all come in to be that police force and
you know and see how effective they are
at you know firearms road policing
public order things like that so yeah
the general answer is yes but there'll
be slightly different nuances where that
capacity is required or not we've got
that we've got no horses in Birmingham
when I first joined we had police horses
and they're very effective that many
police services across the globe will
say in public order you know one horse
can can represent 20 police officers
charge you through a crowd if you like
you know
or crowd if it's if it's an aggressive
crowd so there are there are certain
exceptions but but generally everyone
delivers the same service in those 43
forces that's great we do have here his
units and should have - you are a
detective Superintendent right debates
in Brazil about how which should be the
best police
I mean career for police officers in the
country because that a lot of questions
involved our current our current model
current type I'm gonna tell you speak
slowly because my computer so just just
for for us to understand well does
everybody that joined the police
department enjoying they do the same
training and Academy and then after that
they are they they are volunteer they
Google their effort to be promoted or
they or you can do something like join
the police directly so so yeah but the
general answer is that everybody joins
the police service as a police constable
so the first first rank really in in the
service so everybody joins at that rank
however over the last kind of five
probably 10 years there's been a big
debate about direct recruits
and directs being coming in at an
inspector level so two levels above the
the rank of constable and that we've
seen some success with us and we've
actually seen some forces experiment
with people coming in that
superintendent level so straight at my
director
straining at that so that's still that's
still going through that phases of
recruitment but but there are more the
exception than the norm really so those
offices that will come in as either an
inspector or superintendent have
probably got experience in either the
military or in business and a management
level so now there there can sort of you
know they're they're comfortable in that
arena in terms of leadership and
management but even when they do come in
at that level they will still go through
the recruitment and this sort of what we
call a probationary period of two years
of learning the trade really because
what we've found certainly in the UK
policing is that you know to lead a team
to manage a team like any business I
guess to really you've got to understand
that business and there's real value in
most officers going through that
two-year probationary period as a
constable but being highlighted as a as
a fast-track promotion if you like so
they can learn their trade learn their
skill and then get promoted fairly
quickly after that if they show all the
right skills and abilities and can
evidence that through promotion boards
but them so so the majority of people
will still go through that joining it
constable and then go through the
promotion levels like I did and then
there are some that will come in direct
as either their inspector or as a
superintendent and but still learn learn
a bit more about because what we found
is that you know if you come from the
military as a superintendent it you know
dealing with communities is different
from dealing in in war-torn areas and
obviously the British police system is
very much set upon community policing so
there's that sort of bright end of
learning the trade as a constable
working with communities learning how
they they sort of work with the police
and go through that system so majority
constables by exception you'll have
superintendents and inspectors joining
Giuliana's fast-track officers I see
yeah in Brazil people are debating to
change this idea of twenty eight respect
to a superintendent because they like a
lot of background police background they
should have in our work with the
community and doing a lot of other stuff
they should should should have done oh
yeah we had the weigh-in straight to
general level why do we even know what
that is in police but because in her
country she could go because right
directly to the general level and
without any experience on policing and
in English any minute management level
was active ever so it's something that
we let's say different police and always
looking to see you know just see how we
are having their selection process
because that really affects the overall
that my my understanding effect overall
you know performance of the situation
just shoot to this first part so you you
start it started as a Buddhist
comfortable right yeah so for you would
should be able to be promoted what was
necessary which requirements were put in
place for people to be able to be
promoted just give us some examples so
we can understand everybody has to so
the first rank from up from constantly
sergeant so it goes from constable
sergeant to inspector so if you when
wanted to be a sergeant no matter where
I was whether I was in West Midlands
Police or I was in Liverpool please I'd
have to sit a national exam so everybody
has to sit the national sergeant's exam
and you're either successful or you're
not with that so if you're successful
with the written exam it's like a two
three-hour written exam then you then
you were then interviewed and what they
what we call a board so it's like an
interview and if you were successful at
that in within your force you could then
be promoted as a sergeant so there's two
stages one is the the written exam and
the second one is the the interview
board if you like and if you're
successful those two two periods he then
became a sergeant and then what
therefore the next rank in which is
inspector at the same process so again
there's inspectors sort of written exam
like a two-hour three-hour or based on
law and again if you're successful with
that you then have an interview and if
you're successful that you then become
promoted to inspector so so for the
first two ranks it's written exams and
it's an interview beyond that it then
becomes more comprehensive based so when
I then became once you become a chief
inspector I was I then just applied to
be a chief inspector and I was
interviewed with and to see whether I
was ready I was competent or the Falls
thought that I was the right choice to
be chief inspector and the and beyond
the chief inspector ranked most forces
still use that that process so the first
couple is is really tough because it's
you know you have to commit to the
studies and then you have to commit to
the board but then beyond that it's
really on your ability and how you can
evidence and demonstrate how you've been
a good leader how you've managed it and
you can if you can demonstrate that you
know in an interview the panel can
promote you to that to that rank and and
actually interested me as well you can
be promoted to a different force
and the good thing about having that
national exam is that if if I sergeant
comes from London to Birmingham that
sergeant is that the same exam so you
getting a good standard across all 43
forces you're not just getting someone
promoted because they liked somebody
that half the class that written exam
and the board to get promoted so it's a
good thorough system it changes slightly
but but it's still pretty much round
nationally and it's a good system okay
that sounds especially competence-based
promotion this is something that let's
say over here we don't have that we have
like just a theory but not really in a
very few are able to be promoted based
on the own performance very very
interesting to hear some about this yeah
interesting is you can get promoted to
say chief inspector but you can be on a
period of performance as well so let's
say if you had a really good interview
and you got through but actually you
weren't that good at your job and you
won't demonstrate you could you could go
back down a rank if that was based on
performance as well also as well if you
were subject to misconduct if you did
something internally or or lawfully you
can you can get you know demoted back
down to a rank as well through a proper
procedure but so yeah it's it's not
always perfect because always exception
you know we were many people you know
but I think transparency is there in
terms of if you're not competent and you
haven't done the exams and you got lucky
you'll be found out probably because
you're thrown in at the deep end and
you've got to be able to perform at that
level and so most people
good enough it's fun it's like different
styles but they're usually very good at
what I do now that's good that's gonna
be interesting to hear just last
question is there really true that
police officers in the UK don't carry a
weapon I think this is the theme that I
remember once we were at work in New
York and somebody said well you guys
don't carry weapons and you said well
our community I'm suspended they don't
want us to carry weapons right so it's
just part of our contract but this way
oh yeah in case of I read the other day
that because of the Terrorism you have
more special specialized armed units
that can be in any place in the UK
within five minutes
so yeah just just give us this overview
about who can carry in doing so on duty
even not British police officers UK cops
will not be armed and it seems
interesting because when you speak so
colleagues like yourself and across the
world in the UN most people look at me
like what what do you mean you don't
carry firearms it's been a tradition of
the UK police and to be policing by
consent and that is very much in the
front and sense of the British police in
in terms of you know we we be pleased by
the consent of the community and
therefore it's not military it's not
military outfits there are exceptions to
that and it has changed over the years
when the threat has changed obviously
so officers now frontline officers most
will carry a Taser so the electronic
Taser so they will have either a Taser
or a CS spray to sort of meet the threat
if you like is that that is but but
generally it's only specialized officers
that will carry sidearms and Firearms
and they are trained to a really high
degree but for the game they are on 24/7
so if I was to give you an example if I
was to if I was a police officer in
Birmingham and it was sent to a call
saying there's a man with a firearm
and you know can you go and investigate
I will go there but I would go with
specialized officers who work alongside
us 24/7 as well and that worked good to
me on this because most officers will
assess that situation and and go to an
incident on that with the appropriate
backup so it isn't that we don't carry
firearms at all it's proportionate and
it's necessary when than we do but
generally frontline officers will just
carry their their handcuffs their gas
and their their tasers but most of us
still rely on our biggest our biggest
asset which is our communication skills
and obviously sometimes that doesn't
work because if you're dealing with
someone who's perhaps high on drugs or
alcohol or really violent you might just
have to you know calling for firearms
backup for that straightaway but most
police officers will go through that
level of engagement in terms of talking
engaging in explaining before they could
go to the enforcement role so it more
officers are armed now than when I first
joined thirty years ago you didn't have
24-hour firearms officers so it
definitely has changed so yeah in 30
years time maybe all British officers
will be firearms I don't know but for
the
most most aren't and you have to be a
specialized firearms accrediting officer
to have a firearm with you wash on on
duty and that's the most important thing
is right on duty no British police
officer as a firearm off duty so even
the specialized officers unless by
exception when they go home when they go
back to their family they don't have
firearms with them they don't carry them
they don't have them in the house
they're left in an armory in the in the
police stations this is very interesting
very very interesting but that doesn't
mean that you don't have a regular
practice yes so people that are trained
as firearms officers they have like they
go through a very very tough course to
become you know certified and then has
to be regularly checked as well every
month 11 assessments in six months and
they get their their ticket accredited
if you do a if you just got a Taser
again you have to pass a course to do
that and you have to be assessed
regularly to do that and actually as
well if someone was concerned or there
was a doubt or someone had a medical
history or an incident where there had
to be reassessed that that continues as
well so yeah it's not a one-off you know
you don't get firearms training you
beginning of your service and you hand
your your weapon in at the end of your
30 euros it's regularly checked to see
that you still face and you still carry
and you can still shoot and you're still
safe to do that as well so yeah it's a
regularly accredited certificate agent
to be a firearms officer okay we have
one couple questions from our friend
Joseph more to come he's from the
judiciary police he's asking how do you
how do you guys create in
counterterrorism that's the first one
and the second one is is there a
military police in the UK
so I'll answer the second question first
because that's easier there's not
military police in the in the UK it's
police police officers they call them
warranted officers so they have a
warrant card as a police officer and I
know in some other European countries
and international countries as well
there's a Shanda Armory in the military
and things like that
but in the UK it's police only the only
time that the military will be called in
is if it's completely you know ground
zero and we need the military to come
into support for that is very very rare
the only time that we have the military
and really now in the UK is the sports
support on infrastructure so like for
the Kovach response they're helping with
the engineering and the testing centers
during the Olympic Games that we had in
2012 the military were doing the
searches and things like that
but there are again specialist military
officers that will work with the
counterterrorism stuff so the first
question where they will work with
certain units within the the police
where we've got counterterrorism
officers where the military will work
with intelligence and and that and they
will join and train with each other and
they'll do joint joint operations but
again that's by exception and it's very
well understood and governance is very
very tough with that but mostly it is
police officers who are specialized
trained in counterterrorism delivering
that service and by exception if the
military has to be involved that would
be very closely monitored by government
we have another one it's about this is
these girls around all police officers
on most police or the role of the
Metropolitan Police in Scotland the air
Scotland Yard
people really have that you know Obama
bees and King just explain very quickly
what
medli and what Scotland Yard's some
people didn't understand okay so the
short for Metropolitan Police so that's
the the official type is called the
Metropolitan police but everybody will
refer to them as the Met and the Mets
are one of those 43 forces that we
talked about so it's a territory
organization based in London but because
London's the capital that's where all
the obviously the the focus is if you're
liking in England and it's the Met is
the biggest force out of those 43 forces
it's the biggest in terms of numbers of
officers investigators etc so the mess
is is the biggest one of the one well
known but it's if you've got like my
forces West Midlands in Birmingham it's
the same set of police just in that
different geographical area Scotland
Yard is the headquarters so that's where
you'll hear the Scotland Yard bit
confusing because you think Scotland's
up in north but it's called strata and
yannis was rare the headquarters for the
Metropolitan Police's
and that's recently moved actually but
the but the title still remains it's
change build and so there is a Scotland
Yard in London down by by the Parliament
right by the River Thames it's a brand
new building but it's still called
Scotland Yard and that's the
Metropolitan's headquarters so so to
just those sort of really summarize that
the Met he's one of the 43 forces and
Scotland Yard is the headquarters of the
Metropolitan Police okay but that makes
a crystal clear for everybody
sometimes the wage it's shown on TV
shows and movies is that Scotland rise
was with workmen a little bit confusing
certainly met and Metropolitan's with
confusion sometimes
then I have a question but promised to
be the last one
it's that on TV shows as well it's the
possibility for example let's say there
is a major type of crime that local
police the police from the local
department are not able to do it so
experience to to investigate to deal
with that I've watched that that some
time within the UK one police officer
from another least important with more
experience maybe and then can be
redeployed the investigation or many
years ago when when crime was the
picture of crime was changing some some
forces were perhaps ahead of the game so
you'd have specialized officers from
different regions where other forces did
now most forces can deal with their own
threat and investigation but but what we
have is when we go back to that National
Police Council that I've talked about
right beginning where all the Chiefs are
one together as a council we we have
something called mutual aid so most of
that mutual aid will come in to terms of
public order demand and things like that
so the Olympics is a good example so
when when when London Olympic were here
in eight years ago 2012 obviously the
Met where most of the Olympics were in
London couldn't would be to stretch to
deal with all that so mutual aid from
all our officers from all over the 43
forces would come and support that host
force in delivering that that service if
you like so that's an example where I
to the mess and I worked in intelligence
during that period to support the
Metropolitan Police to deliver that
service so that mutual aid agreement
between the chief constables is always
there because demand can go up and down
and and you can put the call and if you
like to do that but in terms of general
police in most forces can deal with
their own demands and then if they can't
deal with that demand if it's a crime
demand this is where the regional
organized crime units will help help for
that region so where I work at the
moment the region organized crime unit
there's nine regions that cover those 33
443 forces sorry
and within that region so in my region
at the moment in the West Midlands we
can the four areas so we could a West
Midlands Police we can a staff pitcher
police because the Warwickshire police
and we could whereas Murcia so it's all
in that that region if you like but that
regional crime office can go anywhere in
that region to support any of those
chief constables so that's that second
level of support really that's rather
than Birmingham really struggling we can
we can we can go support burning a
police West Midlands Police help them
out but likewise if it's in
Staffordshire which is on the edge of
the area if they've got a real problem
with crime we will go there we don't
stop at the border of Burnley gonna go
although we can't deal with that we deal
with it as a regional regional command
if you like and support that chief
constable and there are nine regional
crime units that deliver that all across
the the heightened and lower of the UK
then X is very nice this is very nice
this type of cooperation the other
agencies that as the professional
actually professional I'm going to give
you more or your tea as I go through
some yeah you can have your
just take her out of the Queen for a
couple minutes just so I gonna have
Morris to match your legs so then we
come back and talk about organized crime
and the real thing that you get the mass
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okay
okay Martin are you can you hear me I
can hear you so yeah yeah great so hope
you had time to take up your your tea I
have my god
so how's the weather over there well you
know it's been quite nice just put my
fleece on cuz it's it's not as hot as
Brazil my friends it's it's up it's a
big country so the weather changes from
region to region but lately it's a
little bit chilly over here see I can um
I'm wearing my sweater a little bit
chilly but yeah not that bad so yeah so
let's talk about right let's talk about
cold feet 19 and and also the how
organized crime is is working and trying
to interfere nowadays we of course with
your UK perspective perspective your
perspective and you mean feel free to
hear what you have to say and and I'm
sure facing here in Brazil a lot of from
ages may be fraud cases in Brazil like
yesterday more than 200 I'll call it and
you call ventilators like hard
ventilators because they are very
important extreme cases
so once mayor bought like two hundred
none of them were work
it's like so this is like every day on
the news many many problems about you
know from TPD to ventilators and things
weird
I mean people a lot of money and you
know right now they take it put as
explicit as they you know people are
gonna buy it so there is no money there
are no many options for for at least as
we can see that whatever price they put
up tomorrow we're gonna buy it so even
though most of many of them when they
arrive they have they're broken they
work so we can see to you my friend
okay so yeah first time I guess in my
place ik career anyway that
internationally we're all dealing with
the same same problem the source of
which is obviously Kovac nineteen and
it's uncharted territories for for many
many countries if not all really so I
think what I came to share them with
with yourselves and the audience really
is that the experience that I have in
investigating organized crime serious
organized crime or transnational crime
is that there's there's two real things
that an organized crime group will
always do is that they will they will
exploit vulnerable people and and where
there's a demand and there's a supply
they will muscle in and do that and that
and and kuroh v19 really is a good
example of exactly what they will start
to do and I say they it won't be unique
to to the UK I'm sure you just explain
there is happening in all countries
because where there is such a demand
for whether it be protecting equipment
or specific equipment deal with the the
virus organized crime groups will work
out how to exploit it and unfortunately
they don't care whether that's to the
vulnerable victim of Covey's or a
supplier to that so what what we've
started to see him and we kind of assess
right from the beginning is that
although in the UK at the moment I'm not
sure what it's like in in Brazil but
there is no just just started to ease
the lock down a little bit so for the
last six weeks people couldn't go out
unless you were a key worker either a
nurse or doctor or a police officer or
you could go out for one one exercise a
day which has been challenging for
everybody but it was interesting from
our point of view is that actually none
of our organized crime group can also go
out as well so we saw a dip in certain
crime crime types for instance people
can't use the road network they can't
use rail work and so some of the
organized crime groups have had to
change their modus operandi if you like
your mo of how they deal with it because
if they're seen on the road they're
likely to be stopped by a cop what are
you doing and if they've got any illegal
commodities then they'll be arrested so
we've seen a real slowdown in for
instance drug lines drug dealing
importation immigration because there's
no one on the streets and and if you're
on the streets you're going to be
stopped by the police and you've gotta
have the right documents etc so so what
way that's been really useful but it
hasn't taken the organized crime groups
long to think okay so how can we make
money from this and you know you and I
had these discussions when we were
together with the United Nations is that
you know organized crime is just the
business on the black market it's as
simple as that really but there's no
rules there's no regulations there's no
tax and with that becomes really you
a lot of violence and a lot of breaking
of the rules so what we're starting to
see across Europe and the UK at the
moment is what you touched on is fraud
so where does the demand fall whether it
be public protection kids for the nurses
or for people going about their business
we are seeing quite a lot of stuff
that's coming in that is either fake or
not up to standard and behind that but
there's no doubt that organized crime
will be moving that because if you think
about it as a commodity that's what
organized crime networks are very very
good at and this is what the work that
you and I were doing in the United
Nations where where there's no where
there's no legal system where there's a
big void the organized crime groups will
come in and pretend to be that sort of
system for you so what we're seeing is
that they are offering products that
we'll all they use an existing networks
to move commodities about so where you
would see let's say drugs being used
through a network to be delivered to the
UK we will be seen other commodities
where that be fraudulent PPE or stuff
that's related to that because it's a
network and it's a commodity and when
you start to look at organized crime as
a network that can be be used as a
commodity the heads of these organized
crimes will just see as a commodity and
whether that's a child whether that's a
firearm
well that's drugs or money or whether it
be PPE or equipment to exploit it they
will move that commodity around because
they don't pay tax on it they want to
get the cheapest that they can want to
earn as much money out of it so we're
seeing that this is a real area where
organized crime are starting to change
their mo if you like and exploit yet
again the vulnerable people who happen
to be in a chair you know nurses and
victims of the coronavirus
and organized crime will exploit them
and I've no doubt that you're starting
to see that in Brazil and in other
European countries we've seen it as well
as the the virus has spread so that's
where if you don't understand your
organized network you're never going to
get on top of it because if you start to
understand the network you can be taken
out whether it be drugs firearms or PPE
or fraud or anything that's where you
can be more effective but if you don't
understand the organized crime Network
you're never going to be able to tackle
the problem because organized crime just
adapt to whatever the demand is and the
demand moment happens to be you know
equipment PPE or Hospital equipment
whatever it may be they will adapt to
that commodity but if you don't
understand that that organized crime
network and you always playing catch-up
so that's the the work that certainly
you and I were trying to sort of promote
we're in war-torn countries where you
know the only structure may be corrupt
politicians organized crime networks we
were trying to promote understand that
network and then you can respond to it
then you can prevent it then you can
intervene all or whatever is appropriate
to deal with it so it's just
understanding the network and at the
moment organized crime it just changed
its demand because it happens to be
related to covert 19 which is this
global problem
you
can you hear enough okay yeah so I found
this being a very complicated issue
right now for many reasons and of course
they are taking advantage of this chaos
this chaotic as scenario that we were
facing all over the world and and we
where when things changed you know from
one day to the other everything changes
so it is very um I totally agree with
you
you know this even took note about your
your your thoughts in and yes totally to
understand how they they behave how the
network is adapting to this chaotic this
chaos that we're facing nowadays but how
do you think law enforcement agencies
can be once that I had organized crime
at least here in Brazil we are facing so
many cases of fraud being on the news
every single day and it is started with
a hand sanitizer I remember when they
let's February and what they started
like everybody needs to use a hand
sanitizer bla bla so every day a police
were you know Citroen has arresting
people with fake hand sanitizer they
were like you know sunny for Half Price
and people how could how could they tell
right so this is like I'm talking about
a small thing but of course as he also
mention that in we have those fragile
states where this situation I had they
are
very complicated themselves and
commodities can be from a child or a
girl to be a sex slave or so many things
can happen and I think that right now we
don't have air flights we don't have
we'll have we're flights but very
limited so if you think at first at
first glance um we think well you should
be more difficult for these people to be
doing this type of crimes committed
those crimes but actually it's not I
mean they they find that their own way
with their own airplanes their own
resources to be able to to change and
adapt their mo to increase their profits
during this period so my question back
to you would be how could law
enforcement reinforcement agencies
around the world be I had because I felt
completely very very my that's my
perceptions I felt this very very
complicated today maybe not in the few
months but today from fair very
difficult yes I think you know being if
it nice to give a model society this is
gonna stop organized crime I think the
reality is you're never gonna you're
never going to stop it but you what you
have to do is you have to prioritize
what you can do and what you can't do
and it goes back to really that
understanding there is so even before
the pandemic you know reach the surface
the different shores and what nice you
know really good or really good
countries that understand that threat
I've got a strategic threat and
prioritize so they will turn around and
say you know the UK will be it's it's
immigration its child sexual
exploitation its firearms its drugs so
there'll be certain commodities that we
will say these are our strategic threat
and priorities over the next 12 months
but what we what we in other countries
do good and bad and not so good
sometimes is they constantly her eyes
horizon scanning that we would call in
the intelligence world is what's that
next threat what is that next crime time
that's coming up and you've almost got
to you know when you mentioned how do
you organize crime they're very good at
adapting then the police are growing be
as good as that adaption as well and so
you traditional policing you know in
terms of you know what you always do
you're always get out you know good
leaders good managers and good
organizations think differently and
always thinking of that next threat so
for instance when the pandemic came up
in the UK we were thinking about okay so
this is gonna have a big impact on UK
policing for sure you know because you
know what you're gonna look like with a
lockdown but actually how's that gonna
affect our ability to monitor online
activity monitor the dark when monitor
or the you know fraud because you know
it's alright having loads of police
officers on the streets making sure no
one goes out but actually if everyone's
committing crime online like were
communicating now online
you know the organized crime will do
that so you have to be very very broad
and open minded to to your thoughts
process when you're trying to
investigate serious organized crime and
I love the quote where someone said you
know you know it's it's like it's like a
terrorist you see if your parachute
isn't open it won't work and and if your
mindset isn't open to the organized
crime then you won't be won't work you
won't you just won't be effective to it
so I think what you have to do is you
can't always stop it because you know
how much I'd love to be able to do that
the reality is we can't so what you
understand it prioritize what you can do
but make sure that your horizon scanning
across you know for instance we
predicted you know unfortunately that we
thought we'd see high rising in fraud
just because we knew that they won't be
out in the streets and people would have
to go online to do their crime now that
was a good analyst product that probably
wasn't a police officer but he's part on
a police network but is part of a team
that's listened to so that analyst will
produce something to the senior police
officer whether it be myself or another
region or national or wherever it is and
say look we have we predict with all our
analysis with all our intelligence
assets out there that accident this
could happen and you can assess that you
could say well yeah let's let's deal
with that or we can ignore it now
predominantly the good police services
and forces that are out there will
listen to those analytical products and
start to sort of prepare for that and
and what what we do to certain successes
in the UK so we always look at under
four strands so the the it's under the
Serious Organised Crime strategy that we
we constantly review but we look at
prepare how do how do we prepare for it
how do we protect how do we pursue and
how do we prevent and it's called the
four piece and if you look at it within
those four p's you started to look quite
broader at crime if you're looking at
just from a pursue elements that you're
just going to chase people and catch a
smoking gun or you're going to catch a
load 100 kilos of drugs you're only ever
going to get a pursue the elements out
of it
but how you gonna stop someone are you
going to prevent somebody are you going
to raise awareness of what how bad drugs
are are you going to intervene how you
grow when are you gonna sort of you know
prepare as an organization to to
investigate organized crime so I think
the 4p structure that we we adapt on the
UK which is in a variation of many of
the countries way of doing it but it's
it's looking at open-mindedness toward
not just chasing chasing where the drugs
are chasing where the drug dealers are
tracing where the immigration
Smuggler's are coming because you've got
to get upstream of that and you've got
to understand it and you've got to be
able to intervene prevent protect and
pursue but not just on its own you've
got to have those four strands in my
view that's where you start to become
far more effective but thanks Martin
how is how is uh well according to your
explanation the way explain you your
police agencies are organized in the UK
how good is your information sharing on
organized crime organized crime units
within the police departments well
connected with maybe National Center I
don't know how that would be how does
their work especially in now during this
period of pandemic four strands so
across those four p's if you like you
know when you prepare protect pursue and
prevent across all that what we have is
a tasking process so we call it tasking
and coordinating and again we know when
we first explained the setup of the UK
you've got local regional and national
what we have is local tasking we have
regional task in and we have national
tasking now they're all separate in
their in their own sort of areas of
business if you like but they are three
loops that there are all connected to
each other so if you are dealing with
something locally and you think you know
what this is becoming a real big issue
across three or four different regions
they can escalate that into regional
tasking and then likewise in the region
if it's becoming you know across all
these different regions you can escalate
that up to national tasking but what's
really important you can go
upwards but it can come down with as
well so you can catch down as well and
and that that creates this connection
between the local regional and national
intelligent systems now it's not perfect
it doesn't always work you know as we
like to because you know for various
different IT reasons sometimes and and
also sensitivity of some of the
investigations that are going on at
local and regional national levels but
there is a process there there's a
governance process what we call a
strategic governance group that actually
if I'm dealing with something locally
and I want to escalate this and raise it
I can I can take it to local task in I
can take it to regional tasking and I
can take it to national task in and and
there there's an audit there and there's
a rationale for why people do don't take
that on so I think whatever system a
country has to deal with serious
organized crime whether it's the four
piece trends you've then got to have a
governance structure so howhow is that
interconnected between each other to
share intelligence and on the whole have
to say the UK's taking its time to get
there but now there is a good
information changing because because if
you want to intervene if you want to
prevent something you could probably
want to do that at the local level so at
a national level regional level you will
be wanted to share intelligence with
your local partners because you want to
stop it at source so I think we are we
are getting better at doing that we're
not always get it right but again we you
know we are getting better at sharing
that Intel sharing the the problem and
escalating up and down to all all the
forces yeah
great Martin we'll have a comment from
our friend Joseph from Portugal he says
that's why international police
cooperation is so important how how
often do you guys interchange exchange
information with police sources from
other countries and
how within these three levels of of no
organization effects you can affect you
directly or not
so let's let's let's use Brazil as an
example so the National Crime Agency
that national level if you like they
deal with the International and national
threats but what they will have is
they'll have a liaison officer in all
these countries so there'll be a
National Crime Agency Hazen officer in
Brazil somewhere in South America where
all the issues may or may not come back
to the UK so we find the constable in
Birmingham and let's say a Brazilian
organized crime group has started to set
up in in Birmingham I would be able to
start to report on that organized crime
group if I knew what they were doing but
I would also be able to reach up into
the National Crime Agency and say hey do
you know anything about Sergio is just a
pea in Birmingham you know have you got
any checks on here and that I could I
need to know about others there's a
process there that through that regional
national process they can reach out
between whether it be a Memorandum of
Understanding or a legal document that
we could exchange some information that
you might hold him in Brazil that's
really important for me to have back in
back in Birmingham but we would go
through that process rather than me just
picking you up a phone and saying hey
Sergio can you go and check your local
systems and tell me what you know about
this this guy or this gang we would go
through that process because it protects
the source it protects the intelligence
but also as well it protects us from
corruption as well is that actually we
can do these checks in an audited way so
that National Crime Agency is not only
looking at the national UK picture it's
got all the international partners that
they can link into as well and you're
probably familiar with certain systems
that all the sort of Interpol and
national forces will have access to and
they can download data onto that that
the NCAA the National Crime Agency will
have access to and will share with us at
a regional local level the
yeah that's pretty much how everybody
deals with deals with with International
Cooperation but then there is a friend a
comet here said they would say you're
gonna like this one
with brexit what are the main changes
for international police cooperation on
such with Schengen and Europe oh and
other police cooperation huh how do you
see with the brexit that could be the
main change for the police generation of
risk operation yeah it's it's an
interesting question because when we
were working with each other it was a
topical thing in Europe brexit seems to
be forgotten there with the pandemic
yeah for understandable reasons but but
brexit is still going on as as people
all know that the UK have left the
European Union because we voted as a
country to leave that Union but the
short answer is is that we won't leave
the lawful exchange in agreements and
that's what's going on at the moment so
although we might not be part of that
European flag at the moment what the the
ministers and the governments are
organizing is how will will be able to
lawfully exchange a european arrest
warrant for example how are we going to
be able to dock into europe and exchange
information about an organised crime
group in albania that are now in
birmingham things like that I'm fairly
confident that that won't change it will
be under different different
legislations and it would be easier
because we could pick up a phone in when
we were part of the European Union but
the good thing about that is if there is
a good thing is that it's as important
to the Europeans members as it is in the
UK because you know once what we see if
a
European organized crime group comes to
the UK for instance what they were
usually do is commit some crime in the
UK but send the funds back to the home
country so it's having an impact on that
country as well so it would be nonsense
to think well it doesn't really matter
they're not part of brexit you know the
UK deal with it as they are because it's
in everyone's interest to exchange their
information and from my experience today
that hasn't changed
I don't think it will change I think
there'll be some slightly different
legal orders that will be be covered but
it just doesn't make sense to cut all
ties legal ties in the European sense to
do it and I don't get the sense that
there's any desire for example France to
not exchange details with us or virus
ippolit stuff like that but it is right
it still needs to be sorted it will be
sorted I think it's a headache for
someone else but at the moment it's
pretty much business as normal we can
still have those interactions with our
European colleagues and we still seem to
be able to get work done through the
National Crime Agency and through
Interpol as well that's good because you
were so close right I mean there are so
many going on in the region that would
make no sense even though you guys are
in in the eye in the island but still I
mean there are so many flows of people
people and goods and commodities so yeah
so that's glad to hear Martin Rudd that
since last week the UK has started to be
more flexible on the on the restrictions
of the copied 19 how do you feel the
things are going right now in the UK as
a citizen and as a police officer
you know we're in a 30,000 deaths of
Kovac now which is you know every single
one is an absolute tragedy for for the
families for the people that are dealing
with it it's awful for everybody not
only in the UK across the globe but but
I think front from that people are
taking strengths from that it's you know
I could talk about kovat in the UK and
you guys in Brazil and Jose or Portugal
you know it's affecting us all you know
we know that it's everybody's in this
together and I think from the UK point
of view what's interesting from the
policing point because we had new powers
that we could give people fines if
they're out on the street and we could
you know rest people if they're
breaching and things like that and yes
there have been some breaches where
enforcement has been been required but I
think because it's affecting so many
people everybody knows about it it's
almost becoming self policing and I
don't know what it's like in Brazil at
the moment Saoirse but you know when
people are walking down the street
because we've relaxed you can go out
there and have some you know more
exercise and things like that but people
will will take white births of each
other they will move two meters away
from each other whereas beforehand
everybody's to shake hands and have a
cup of tea and we talk and all this kind
of stuff but I think because people see
this national international problem
people are policing it imagine
themselves and I think from my point of
view this is where a community community
policing is really important because you
know when I said to you we are there for
the community to police for the
community the community can place this
themselves as well you know and you know
we've had a lot of reports of you know
community members ringing up the police
saying hey someone's going out to the
park and they shouldn't be you know that
they you know they take it serious and
then the police can go and assess and
deal with it so yeah for sure it's been
it's horrible and every victim and every
you know family that's been affected by
it's truly you know heart wrenching but
most P
because everybody's being affected by it
are police in it themselves as well and
you know today's it we you know there's
bigger problems really the economic
problem is going to be huge in the UK
like II no doubt in Brazil you know a
lot of money has been spent on
supporting businesses so the economics
side of the UK is for sure going to go
down so how do we pick ourselves up from
that
so there's bigger there's bigger issues
out there but everybody's affected by I
guess really so because of that people
are you know you know supporting and
we've seen some amazing acts of kindness
and we've seen some people that you know
know each other's neighbors now and look
out for each other and it'd be really
interesting to see post the kovat is is
how the community rally together to
support each other and support policing
as well in terms of you know looking out
for each in them as well so yeah
challenging difficult it's slowly
getting back to normal but you know
what's normal at the moment is we were
having you know 300 people die a day
which is still crazy you know but it's
not as 600 people that were having two
weeks ago and you know the graph was
going up and up so it's still really
strange times but we seem to be starting
to you know respect each other look out
for each other and hopefully help each
other as we go along yeah it's good to
hear here in Brazil we are yesterday we
had over a hundred people death toll
death and yesterday I haven't watched
the news today but yesterday we passed
200,000 infected and 1,500 death and the
curve is going up the I think one of
them the main problems
that we have in Brazil besides well one
have the the country it's very big and
the geography is completely different
from one region to the other and in
addition we don't have we have what we
call let's say rich states and poor
states or more or less rich or something
like this which makes of course some
places to have a better infrastructure
health infrastructure there are other
places that don't have so here in the
capital we were the first one to start
with kind of a lockdown lockdown but you
know confinement isolation whatever they
call and but it seems and now it's if
everything goes okay on Monday in
Brasilia we're gonna start reopening
some of the businesses and some of the
you know that's the idea that you know
the the governess appeal court has
decided that it's up to the mayors and
governors to decide what to do if
they're open or not if they it's because
so this is making a huge political
dispute this way here because we have a
lecture this year so far so we have
people like you know some people now are
like saying well if they don't die of
coffee they're gonna die of starvation
because they cannot work they they
cannot or money they cannot buy food
they cannot eat and the yoga so so then
we have it's very by polarized the
situation so we have a politicians there
are extremely favor of the lockdown
until the curve start going down and
then have others they're in favor of
opening everything immediate
we know businesses are my understanding
as business is important and it needs to
be according to the place because in
Brazil we cannot if you go to the South
in some states there's zero cases of of
Kovac zero these in behaved states in
Brazil like I don't know how big they
are per day they were huge there's zero
States there are zero cases you know and
others the health system cannot have you
know how to code like receive any or any
other patient because they they don't
have any type of support of doctors or
Indians it's a comma it has collapsed so
really no we live in receiving a very
nobody knows exactly what's going on and
nobody really know even to know where I
think he should open but then after two
minutes but what if he opens up but it's
not dying so it's very confusing because
the the politician that should be like
you know leading the country in a
positive way they they are fighting you
know they are spitting they are each one
comes with a magical solution and the
other one also open that one like here
the the governor must open the
neighboring state like 30 minutes from
here
he says no no way so it's it's like you
know completely opposite decisions and
perceptions so I I think that for
example where my family's from Recife
today they started locked down
completely locked up in here on Monday
they're gonna open everything so it's
very crazy right now in Brazil you know
and and we go according to the flow you
know according to the wind we today is
like there is tomorrow's like that
yesterday the Minister of Health was
fired again the second one and two weeks
it's so it's like it's a very very messy
because politics politicians are really
going nuts in the moment that they
should be the most relaxed guys and this
is also affecting because once the
mayor's City mayors and the governor's
and and then the federal government they
all have to buy equipments so so they
are like also this put disputing among
themselves and all the equipment's
already you know in the market like in
the international market so I have
bought from the national government and
then have their own those were bought
for the local and those were bought from
the city so it's like each one's like
each one on their own it's completely
nonsense situation in the country and
mainly we have started just to see for
the past ten days lots of demonstrations
to support politicians which is not you
know a you know a lot of people hugging
each other with the Brazilian flag
supporting this of that hood one of all
other politicians so it's I don't see it
has been a very healthy moment to the
country especially because even myself
you know I can tell you something now
and then I watch the news and then I say
well Martin forget it it's I think this
for well even for law enforcement I was
last week there was a demonstration and
then the the the project the prosecutors
and the judges were ever the issue
document to the police on how to behave
because nobody was supposed to be on the
demonstrating this time you know you
know he was supposed to be walking
around and then other sort of people
demonstrating on the streets so the
prison was like so what do we do
do we arrest them and then now we have
police officers arresting people in some
states because it's locked down you
cannot get out like they were doing
friends and then Spain in some countries
which makes a lot of friction between
police and society soldiers and then I
have the all those cases that I told you
about fraud and buying equipment with
withou just in in and I can tell you
millions and millions of dollars there's
been a lot of money and then today they
have they were opened in one new
hospital yesterday and then the police
went there with prosecutors and judges
and just it just closed everything
because there was a corruption case so
very very difficult my friend I can tell
you that it's a very critical moment for
us and the countries where it's very is
very unstable economy of course is going
but everyone that's everywhere economy
is doing very bad but I found this this
moment to be one of the worst scenarios
I have I've seen in the country because
even during elections and impeachment of
presidents ok we have huge
demonstrations millions of people but
it's fine I mean if people are just
demonstrating because it's the moment
for you to demonstrate and support your
candidate whatever that's right but when
you have a health chaotic momentum and
people are disappearing on political
topics clinical issues is all about
politics I don't really see good things
come in a head and as I said our curve
is going up we're gonna be second very
soon you just gonna be now behind Russia
number of infected people but that's
because we will have enough amount of
back tests so it's not it's a lot
notification
so it's it's very it's very very
complicated well and when you said no
let's talk about organized crime and I
said well here it's like he's like a
should be a case study you know every
day is like paying their odds meanings
of millions of going this way in that
way so you never know and because of the
state of emergency these are parts they
don't have to go through the law to buy
equipments they can buy the faces they
can so this allows people to commit a
lot of bad things unfortunately that's
my of course that's my own analysis in
perception of course if you talk to a
ball with my brother he's gonna give a
different one and the other one a
different one spits yeah that's that's
very sad yeah I wouldn't disagree with
any of that
that's and I think you know you just go
look at you know the business model of
organized crime you know where there's a
demand whether it be for drugs firearms
or equipment now within this this
environment you see if they will they
will exploit it and we might not know
about it now but we'll get to know about
it after because they'll adapt and if we
don't adapt as quick as we're always
playing catch-up I think it's
interesting to hear where you're at at
the moment in terms of the brazils sort
of spike if you like as apparently we're
coming down off it and I think what
we're learning early doors is what we
need is clarity in terms of what you can
and can't do because as soon as there's
any confusion people will will blur
those lines and stuff like that and I
think now where everybody understood
when you're locked down you couldn't go
out that's absolutely fine no one could
do and it's easier to manage to a
certain degree know that you can go out
for certain roles or you can go see
certain people but there's a little bit
confusion because people go can I do
this kind of not do that that's where
you know
hopefully the politicians need to be
worth their salt because we're seeing a
lot of questions thrown back at our
government to say well what does that
mean you know I'm not sure and you know
give us some clarity on that because if
there's not clarity people will just
interpret it their own way so not not
suggesting that it's going to get any
worse for you because it's already bad
for you but it becomes a different
problem after the spike comes down and
we're seeing that now it's like what
what can we do watch them where can we
go out what can we do not that color so
yeah interesting times and difficult
times as well and know in Brazil the
size geographic size of it what a
challenge for you you know that is those
huge how'd you enforce that such a
geographical Scott star scaler you know
I I do I do understand that that that
challenge for Brazilians yeah but anyway
I think we've we have spoken taking your
your fish and chips from Saturday but
Jose I said well excellent was
postmarked it will be business as usual
between the UK in Portugal at least that
says Jose and we're gonna do the same a
very short I think very short questions
and answers to you for the Brazilians so
I'll ask you a question then you give me
an S and I'll be fine so let's say
favorite dish British for the whole Dom
or a beginning salmon salmon fish
selfish you see okay favorite drink
okay if you're telling to a brutal
prisoner who is virtually okay this
something you have to try okay so if
you're coming to the UK favorite drink
you have to go for slightly slightly
broadening the Ireland bit here but on
my family from Ireland so and have to go
for Guinness you have to have a point of
Guinness a pint of Guinness okay
ICD everybody should go to some typical
traditional or events or or tradition
some traditional events from the UK you
think it's nice well I would have said
football because football is so so big
but Brazilians are so forget the
football because you've you've mastered
that the Brazilians have but but go and
see a cricket match cricket at the
Cricket yeah cricket is is is a
brilliant day out because you can sit
there
it's the sun's usually shining you
allowed to drink alcohol
it's all very responsible and it takes
all day to watch it all day have drinks
have chats and what watch some cricket
so yeah I'd go for cricket in it in the
UK because that's not that doesn't
happen everywhere okay and best TV show
British TV shows come on peaky blinders
you keep whoever have a watch bigger
Bridal please we have some big show
okay okay
that's a Swedish lady and here's our
famous and he said Barbie I said Bob so
they're cool it's called Bobby
interesting fact so so Bobby come so the
place was set up by a guy called Sir
Robert Peel mm-hmm so Robert Peel was
they started they sort of you know the
the British pre-service now Robert
short for Robert is Bobby yeah so
Bobby's on the beat with Paige Bobby's
Roberts beat Bobby's on the beat so
that's where the word Bobby comes from
okay
it's short from it's short for Robert
and it's Bobby's on the beats Roberts on
the beat I see Rock the Roberts on them
beats okay good Bobby
that's a Bobby okay that's the tip I got
I got one of those you know my she comes
here she changes everything out of the
other side yeah okay so we have a
special unit yeah that's the mess that's
the police that's my cat badge there we
go yeah our new uniforms are different
from one to the other the badges will be
different but pretty much all across
don't look like like that picture there
you'll see the Bobby's looking like that
so yeah pretty much the same okay
roofing that's Jeff please
traffic police and so there you go
best if you show on the planet from
Birmingham yeah exactly exactly
if there's one thing people need to take
the ways they need to check that out
Netflix yeah that's that's that's fine
we you should call each other and we
should call ourselves the picky by this
from the human police back in the UK but
we regard obrigado
like that's Birmingham and fish and
chips situation kit yeah perfect so nice
the pub yeah the area that's that's
great let's not say milk tea there we go
so do we has a little bit of of UK more
mayhem and just to show our viewers it's
gonna be on the on YouTube and we're
going to work on the subtitles so people
will be able to watch and of course
understand but dear friend Martin thank
you so much for taking your time on the
Saturday I know it's it's hot it's
weekend and you have your family
business to do but it was such a
pleasure to see you and of course you to
learn from you and likewise my friend
it's it seems like too long since we
actually physically saw each other it
was it was a joy to work with you and
your colleagues and the nice thing about
modern technology you know is that you
know our friendship continues and
hopefully soon a beer with you here or
in Brazil but Abigail my friend that
amigo it's great to see you and thank
you for everybody that's taken taken
part in this conversation
no it was great the end of course as
this goes away I'm fine fine I will go
into a Birmingham and having a beer in
the original peaky blinders place we had
such a great team back in the UN it was
such a nice team to work with the
stellar
Bruno and the others I may be nearer
maybe in sub 8 Malaga maybe we need to
to have a reunion there yeah we can
guarantee better weather in Malaga than
you can t bu for you from Brazil but but
no it's it's been a great experience
they work with you and as you know and
you know we got as we've discussed we
have slightly different ways that we do
it but if you part of the police family
you can't the police family you know
thousand miles away so it's been great
too great to catch up we associate thank
you very much and unsafe and hopefully
that that people start to come down very
soon in Brazil my friend hopefully
hopefully as my my best regards to your
family in the take game be safe as well
cheers my friend thank you Cheers
you
