this'll is Mississippi matters in
partnership with the United Way of the
capital area.
Hello, everyone. I'm Erin Pickens and
welcome to this week's edition of
Mississippi Matters. Criminal justice
reform has been a hot topic around the
country and here in Mississippi, and
this week, our guests are going to
explore more about this topic we have
with us this week. A day list Thomas.
He's a retired NFL player and also
played college ball right here in
Mississippi at the University of
Southern Mississippi. Also, we have
Maurice Clifton. He is the president of
an organization called Sale. He's gonna
tell us a little bit more about that
here in just a few moments. But unless
we want to start with you, tell us more
about your efforts to work with
criminal justice reform, and you've
done something right here in Hinds
County.
Yeah, one of the things we did at
Ascani said, a perform when you have
Democratic or Republican people that
are going for local investment. Look
off this and really talked about being
able to vote in people coming out to
vote because everybody understands that
voting is important for the
presidential election, But they don't
really participate as much in the local
elections in your local legend of
fiction. Boarded anything? Would your
district attorney, your judges, your
comment of the Superior Court
people in the circuit, so always is
important, too. Bloody boat. That's one.
The things we did has set up a platform
so that constituents could get a chance
to talk and speak with the people that
have been there and allowed the things
going on for years and years and
someone to come in. That was new to
force your opinion. A lot of times one
of the guys don't show up because he
doesn't want to answer questions about
constituents. And so that's one of
things that we did and hides it, said
their platform up and then come out and
have a discussion about it. What is it
motivated you to get started with this
effort?
You know, just seeing people treated
fairly.
Dustin biggest issue that you have is
watching people that you know don't
have. Boys don't have our and being
able to be in a position where people
like football, and that's what the main
sports are made, events that you have
United States people enjoy. Think of
football in a list of football players.
Not that they're saying something
different than the other people that's
living it, but it's because they feel
like your voice matters. So you know
your voice to people that doesn't have
a voice and your hope and give them
opportunity to be heard viewing your
boys
and Maurice. You're the president of
sale. Tell us what sales stands for.
And also tell us about your journey
with the criminal justice system.
Okay, Sale stars for stands for cities
advocacy. In this, Stephen leaves your
problem, and it was created basically
out of necessity, because I'm a
formerly incarcerated person. I started
23 years in federal prison for first
time now about a drug offense, and so
when I was released from prison seven
months ago, January 10 I don't have the
necessary resource is that were
afforded me under the second chance at.
So they promised to contact me and to
help me re integrate back into society.
But you know, it's been a challenge,
but nonetheless, you know, I wanted to
form an organization to help helps
formerly incarcerated people transition
back into society, and I also want to
work with every skier's to kind of
guide them off the past because they
only takes one mistake. So I didn't
want them to may. I don't want them to
make the same mistakes that I mean
because I was a straight a student in
high school, and so I didn't want to
them to take the wrong path, you know,
So it's OK for them to be different. So
I wanted to create an organization that
works with kids,
off incarcerated parents and at risk
kids, even in the Jackson Metro and all
over the state of Mississippi. So my
organization basic created to
bring us together or to create a divide
between the dependent incarcerated
parent and the incarcerated child was
with without their parents.
And you also did some work you said
while you were incarcerated to make
sure you were able to have some
advantages when you got out as well.
Correct.
All right, what idea was the? Well I
took every class I could here, and one
thing I did was I got certified to
teach in CCR and which I want to also
bring that to Jackson because it is so
impaired to that. We as formerly
incarcerated people, have a trade When
we come out, it is hard by the job.
People frowned upon you when you go and
try to apply for a job once they find
out to the Jew been incarcerated and
for the number of years that I have
been incarcerated. So what I did, I got
certified as a sap technician, So I'm
able to use the SAP software and
production. I did that for 19 years in
Unicord Destiny Industries. You know,
it's a it's a door double s ward.
People say that the industries in the
federal system keeps us incarcerated,
but actually and helps us to
become gainfully employed and teach us
Gil. So I learned to type by type of
about 60 descended five words a minute,
And so I took everything that I could
while I was incarcerated so that I
would have a better chance to,
uh, not really fan. So going back to
prison not hops for me, and I want to
ensure that my brothers and sisters who
were coming out of prison have the same
opportunities. I
and you said you've been out since
January. Correct?
Yes, ma'am, says James, 2 10 How have
things been going for the past few
months?
Who, man? It's been a rough, but you
know, it's been it's been a challenge,
so to speak. But, you know, I have
family and low ones who helped me make
the transition. And did I have a burn,
a burning desire to succeed? While I
was incarcerated, I learned that credit
is everything. So I worked on my credit.
So I came out with her 700 plus credit
score. So that has opened up a few
doors for me. And so also why training
that took inside has enabled me to
possibly start NCC are here in the
Jackson area and work with a couple of
days to get that implemented into some
of their training. So I want to treat
you know, I told classes
for about 15 years. While I was
incarcerated, I told Reenter class I
developed a class call breaking ties
with teachers guy how to break their
criminal thinking. So we have the first
change within before we can even come
out and then
be ready for society. You know, like a
DeLacy is just is they turn you loose
in the middle of the night. If I had
not had not prepared myself to be a
productive citizen, then it would have
been easy for me. It's easy for me to
really fan and to go back to the street
than it is to actually employ myself.
And I say that. But I want to change.
You know, I had to change for me. You
know my son. So I have, you know, four
sons. I lost one of my sons right
before I came home, and I always taught
them to be their own independent
businessman. So while I was inside, we
created an organization called to Black
where each one of them do. One of my
sons do tattoos. So here's this to
black art. My other son does apparel.
So here's this to black apparel so that
everything is under that banner. So we
created our own clothing line to where
we can feel the need to force to spend
out money with, you know, with with our
own culture, you know? So
I want to do the same thing in my town
about by you and in the Jackson area
and all over the state of Mississippi.
So I want to empower kids to
realize that they can become their own
boss and teach that spirit of
entrepreneurship, you know, at an early
age. And to put them to stay away from
the streets
and the dailies. When you hear stories
like Maurice is, what do you think? I'm
sure you hear stories like his all the
time,
man.
The crazy thing is, no matter. How did
you hear? It doesn't get any easier
there because you should hear stories
like someone is a first time offender
spending 23 years in jail. I made it is
it is It's heartbreaking, you know, you
know that you have four signs, but I
would say that I commend you and the
efforts that you don't just to educate
yourself. I think the state should
appoint you as creating a curriculum
for people to get out of jail. You
teach each prison I put a program
together that goes, it will go for the
governor
who you know, he told the one that
allow people get out of jail. You're a
perfect example of someone that has
been through it, done it. And there's
nothing like experience go through
everything else, but being that you in
there and you did a hard time and you
know the ins and outs of the system,
What person in their needs, what is
like to be on the outside,
the unit unit units, You're a great
story. It's almost like a movie.
And for our viewers who are out there
who, you know, they hear about criminal
justice reform all the time. And they
think, you know, it says a huge topic.
And, you know, like, what? What can I
do to help out with something like this?
What are some things that people on the
outside can do to get involved with
criminal justice reform?
Get involved in your local election
right to the like for Mississippi.
Specifically, I would write to the
governor accent. Why did he vetoed a
bill that would have released thousands
of inmates that are that are not
violent, not by my father. We're
talking about appealing. That would
have reduced a serious over crowding.
The prisons do the Kogan 19 or even
before that, and it passed at
everything, which would have been a
great start to cutting back on it But
then government Reeves comes in and
just be towed it at the surface of it,
and so are challenged people
Mississippi to right and understand.
Why did you veto this bill? And what is
your plan to do anything about the
prisons that are in Mississippi, where
50 people already died in a prison,
which is more than some states like
Texas, Florida and other places that I
haven't had that many people to die?
They had 50 already issue.
Keep it right here, everyone. We
continue our conversation on criminal
justice reform after the break.
Welcome back, Everyone to Mississippi
matters. We're continuing our
conversation on criminal justice reform.
We're talking now about how education
plays a huge role in this topic. Our
guest today are a daily's Thomas and
Maurice Clifton, a daily. We want to
bring you back into this conversation
about how education is connected to
criminal justice reform.
You know, education is hand in, and
with it
Cohen, 19 is far more created. A bigger
gap due to, you know, effect that
education, negligee and employees are
by income by race or being fund
exacerbated by this pandemic. So you
look at the justice everyday from pre K
to 12 plays out of the state. Local
education funding is inadequate.
Disparities are are bad and the desert
divide because everything went online
learning where you have going homes
there can't afford WiFi so they can't
get the things off basic needs that
they need. So that's one. The things
that we're really trying to do is push
the FCC to make WiFi and digital stuff
available and rule aerials and low
income barriers that make it more
affordable. When you have someone that
doesn't have a education and speaking
to them,
they can't comprehend properly. But you
have to steal. That's when they get in
trouble with your mouth reading scores
in Mississippi or 49 50 on compared on
a consistent basis.
Mississippi is just one of those when
you look at Alexander vs home in the
court case, where they looked at the
disparity of segregation and how
blacks being at West Cool white in
another school in the disparity of test
scores, all those things are the Delta
is just more stories that you just hear
about Mississippi. So it's very
important to spend more money on
education and you get the return on
your investment by having better
citizens. Dr. Citizens who pay taxes
aim be a good citizen to society
instead of putting money to the prison
system and being more debt and
punishing people for non violent crimes.
I m or is you mentioned when you were
incarcerated that you used education to
help you? You said you took every class
that you could. You've been taught some
classes while you were in their talk.
More about how education helped you
while you were incarcerated. And how is
helping you now that you're out?
Well, the biggest thing in the biggest
way having it when I first went in in
1997
I wanted to
take every day my my reintegration back
to side of started then. So I knew that
I had to be take everything I could. So
first thing I do with typing, I didn't
know how to type. So I learned how to
type and what it did it better
equipment to find the best job inside
which was unique or most institution.
It was unique or so I end up getting to
the business off. And so I told reentry
and I knew that a lot of guys I saw
coming back, they were re dependent.
They didn't know how to write a resume,
the same dicho skills that they use in
prison or the same one that they use
outside. So I learned this system of
how to effectively write a resume. So I
told resume writing, scare, interview
skills, anything to do with reentry.
You know how to get a job, how to dress
for success. And so we did. I am. The
staff were so impressed with some of
the problems I was doing. They let me
participate in job Fair. So we created
my job as and do. We did seminars where
people came in from the outside to
teach guys some of the same skills. You
know, so one of things that if there
anybody who's incarcerated a Watson, I
encourage you, man. If you inside
learn a trade, take every class you can,
because it's not easy out here. You
have to be ready to fight the appeal
ballot because people are going already
judge you based on you being
incarcerated.
And so that's one of the things that
prepare me. They're building prison
based on our key is reading level,
you know? So like Like Adela said,
Mississippi is like at the bottom of
the totem pole. So we have to get our
kids up to part in the education system
because
when they're reading school has come
out there saying that, uh, we need
another prison over here in the Delta
because these guys are not going baby
to be productive citizens. So we're
gonna build a place for them. So they
have monetize the prison system instead
of putting money in education like a
DeLacy. So I just think it's unfair to
our kids to go to the citizens of the
state of Mississippi and over the
United States to watch them Bill
prisons to house our kids. One in every
three blackmail would go to prison.
That's a statistic. One in every seven
white milk, 17 white Hispanic male and
one in 14. You know white males will go
to prison. So what? Attending you day
for every three kids that you see
walking on the street, one of them
would be in prison before he's 17 and
then we'll end. Our kids get caught up
in the criminal justice system, in
early age. What that does is all your
juvenile charges that you have, whether
it's true or anything that's on your
records. So in the federal system, they
use that to sentence you and give you
more time. So this is something that
they're not doing. We have to like like
Adela said, we got to do on the local
level. We gotta start in nomine
municipalities, educate each other
other things that were going around in
the system. And you also mentioned to
Maurice about communication, education
and communication on the inside. Even
communicating with the staff inside the
prison is important.
Yes, What I did was while I was there,
Beau Biden they had a group to come in
and started Gavel Club. So we end up
transferring that gavel Gavel Club is
is, uh, all shoot of Toastmasters. So I
end up starting a toast masses, and I
saw the change in the different guys
build up their confidence and
communications, allowing them to be
able to communicate with each other and
with staff. There's a great divide
within the criminal justice system of
how staff interacts with inmates. So
what, toastmaster dear for me and a lot
of the guys that I saw. It breathes the
gap of communication you can understand
and you have the confidence to approach
of staff and to explain your problem to
them. So I end up starting to
Toastmasters in Yazoo, inside out, and
so Toastmasters Justice to say, is that
when you guys have faked able to
communicate with staff that he's less
likely to real fan and he build some
confidence to even on a job interview.
So so many things that toastmaster dear
for me on the inside. So there's anyway,
there's there, any institution around.
They should start with this, the local
jail, anything, and I think that they
should even do it. They have
toastmaster for kids, so I want to
start a toastmaster organization. I'm
looking to join one here, Jackson, but
I like to start toastmaster within the
public schools to teach kids the
confidence of of speaking to their
peers of their sales or anything, just
probably communication skills.
And today lives. I know that you again
former NFL players you have tried to
work with people on, you know, the
level of, you know, the professionals,
the leaders and the stars to help
bridge that gap toe work with the
prisoners. The kind of help get those
who have to work with the prisoners.
Teoh, get those. Resource is to them to
do these things right?
We have, you know, But I think the
biggest thing in Mississippi is they
need to close part. You know, there is
no fixing it. It doesn't matter who is
the warden. Doesn't It needs to do
dramatically. It would dramatically
reduce the population across the state,
increased parole eligibility
opportunities and the individual
finished long. They need to get rid of
it. And so all those days could go to
change. But parking facility itself is
a problem, and you can't fix it. It
needs to close. Is that is the biggest
issue that they have because it is so
many different belts in there that goes
uninvestigated and loved ones just
moves belt ones. And we continue to
send people there. Although there are
nonviolent offenders and is just day
any stores, like my man said, his stars
with the school always being in school
and then, you know, used to be in
school and getting something trouble,
and you go sit in time out of that
office. Now they have offices there to
like you up or take you away. And then
it goes on your record. And then I said
it starts to pipeline to the prison. So
I feel that the biggest issue that
Mississippi had is department prison,
which needs to be closed at all costs.
We will be watching legislation, and we
will be pushing to close it because it
is
un. You made the way that the facility
is that where they talk to each other,
and it needs to be something done about
it. We treat animals better than we do.
The humans in their place
keep it right here, Everyone, our final
thoughts are coming up next.
Welcome back, everyone. We're wrapping
up our conversation on criminal justice
reform. All right, Maurice won't hit
your final thoughts.
What my father thought is that
everybody in Mississippi needs to
ground in power with letters, phone
calls to the governor's office to have
him, too Reina to reinstate 2123 on the
federal level, I just think everybody
needs to do the same thing. If you have
somebody who was incarcerated, you've
got to give with your local elected
people to try to get them involved in
the bill making process and a lot of
making process. There's a lot of things
that needs to be changed. It's an honor
to have been here today, man. We just
got to stick together and to fight for
those who are incarcerated and be their
voice. Thank you a daily.
I have to pick it back on what he said,
Man, when you look at what Murray said,
talking about 2123 you talk about your
Mississippi and you look at this would
have gave you know about the pesticides
before parole. At 25% of the Senate's
people convicted or more serious
offenses between 95 2014 would have
been held about 50% of their sentence.
That right there would have been 50%
for 30 years. So when you look at that,
this bill would have come a long way to
help reducing serious overcrowding. So,
like Murray said, write your senator,
your current has been peacefully
protest with the governor to reinstate
this bill because it is the right thing
to do, contribute like my sense a
create change. Contribute to the change
in your local and state government
policies to advocacy that impacts
probably suggested reform legislation.
Educate yourself, understand what your
rights are and demand your local future
toe. Hold the higher officials account.
Thank you so much a day less. Thomas
and Maurice clipped him for this week's
Conversation on Criminal Justice Reform
and thank you all so much for watching
this week's edition of Mississippi
Matters.
