VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Peter Singer, let me just
- this is the quote that I think caused so
much fuss and protest, particularly at Princeton.
You said, "If a decision is taken by the parents
and doctors that it’s better that a baby
should die, I believe it should be possible
to carry out the decision not only by withholding
or withdrawing life support, which can lead
to the baby dying slowly from dehydration
or from an infection, but by taking active
steps to end the baby's life swiftly and humanely."
PETER SINGER: Exactly and that's what I've
always said and that's what I stand by, that
it’s the parents and doctors making a decision
in consultation. It is not some crazy guy
going into a unit and killing people, you
know. It’s a totally different sort of...
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Yep. It is a pretty strong
- it’s a pretty strong observation. Kath,
I can see your view and we will come back
to you but I would like to hear from the rest
of the panel. Matt?
MATT CANAVAN: Look, I think one of the fundamental
goods of our society and many cultures is
that we have a number of laws, if you like,
or natural laws, that protect us and make
us do the right thing. We have all got this
little voice in our head, which tells us sometimes
what is the right thing and the wrong thing
and when people wrong us or do good or bad
to us and one of the things is that we should
protect human life and that human life is
sacrosanct and paramount and I am deeply uncomfortable
and deeply troubled about any society that
would outsource decisions about life to some
kind of bean counting calculus about the benefits
and costs of particular individuals or how
much costs or harm it’s going to impose
on certain parents. Now, I accept that parents
that find themselves in a situation having
to care for a disabled child, have a very
difficult decision but I also hear so many
stories from parents who - I remember being
at a function once where a mother knew that
she was having a Down syndrome child, was
very worried about it and then it became the
greatest joy in her life, the greatest joy
in her life by caring for this child and this
person and we must always, I think, hold that
dear and true to protect human life and treat
it sacrosanct.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Time is tight, so we’ll
have to try and keep racing through these
but Celeste, what is your view?
CELESTE LIDDLE: I think, you know, just over
and over again we see certain sections of
the society and how the broader society is
not accessible to these groups of people and
I think that's infinitely more - what's it
called? - you know, inflated when it comes
to disability. So I have issues with the view.
I would much prefer to see a society that
is capable and accessible to every single,
you know - every single life that can be born
and people can thrive within it, rather than
a view that, you know, could take support
away from that.
PETER SINGER: But certainly I don’t want
to do that, right. I want the state to support
people with disabilities and, as I said, enable
them to live full, rich lives.
CELESTE LIDDLE: I think culturally it sets
it up where people who are born that way are
seen as a burden rather than seen as a joy
that can access society.
MATT CANAVAN: Yeah, exactly.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Let me hear from the rest
of the panel. Kate Roffey?
KATE ROFFEY: Yeah, look, I agree with Celeste
and I was talking to Peter before. I said
I struggle to bridge the gap between a good
theoretical conversation and reality and I
think this is one of those issues I really
do struggle with. I don't like where this
conversation takes us in a discussion around
differently-abled people in our society. I
learned something from a profoundly disabled
seven-year-old girl who had a terminal illness.
She had more knowledge and wisdom in her seven
years about death and dying than I will ever
learn in 100 years of living. So people of
all abilities make a significant contribution
to our society and I think the real issue
that we struggle with is making a decision
to not to look after them when they're here
but to perhaps not have them here instead
by terminating, for example, as you talk about,
Peter, in some of your writings, profoundly
disabled children. I mean, first of all, who
gets to be judge and juror on what's profound
but people of all sorts of abilities teach
us all sorts of things and I think we'd be
a much poorer society if we didn’t have
a full breadth of people of all abilities
here.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: Lisa Singh, just quickly?
LISA SINGH: Look, I think a test for a strong
and cohesive society is one that looks after
some its most vulnerable but also that provides
supports for all people so they can lead a
contributing, you know, fulfilling life. And
if that is the kind of society we have, then
parents don't need to make a choice because
they know that society will support their
choice of having their child, whatever ability,
disability they may have.
