>>> WELCOME BACK TO "HARDBALL."
>>> WELCOME BACK TO "HARDBALL." AS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
AS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DEBATES THE NEXT STEPS OF HOW TO
DEBATES THE NEXT STEPS OF HOW TO DEAL WITH IRAN, NEW DETAILS
DEAL WITH IRAN, NEW DETAILS ABOUT WHAT MAY HAVE LED TO
ABOUT WHAT MAY HAVE LED TO INCREASED TENSIONS BETWEEN OUR
INCREASED TENSIONS BETWEEN OUR TWO COUNTRIES.
TWO COUNTRIES. ACCORDING TO THE "WALL STREET
ACCORDING TO THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" NEWS PAGES,
JOURNAL" NEWS PAGES, INTELLIGENCE SHOWS IRAN’S
INTELLIGENCE SHOWS IRAN’S LEADERS BELIEVE THE U.S. PLAN TO
LEADERS BELIEVE THE U.S. PLAN TO ATTACK THEM, PROMPTING
ATTACK THEM, PROMPTING PREPARATION FOR POSSIBLE COUNTER
PREPARATION FOR POSSIBLE COUNTER STRIKES WITH ONE INTERPRETATION
STRIKES WITH ONE INTERPRETATION OF THE ADMINISTRATION.
OF THE ADMINISTRATION. THAT COULD HELP EXPLAIN WHY
THAT COULD HELP EXPLAIN WHY IRANIAN FORCES AND ALLIES TOOK
IRANIAN FORCES AND ALLIES TOOK ACTION AND HAS BEEN SEEN AS
ACTION AND HAS BEEN SEEN AS THREATENING TO U.S. FORCES AND
THREATENING TO U.S. FORCES AND PROMPTING A U.S. MILITARY BUILD
PROMPTING A U.S. MILITARY BUILD UP.
UP. FORMER CIA DIRECTOR ECHOED THOSE
FORMER CIA DIRECTOR ECHOED THOSE SENTIMENTS AND FEARS EARLIER
SENTIMENTS AND FEARS EARLIER TODAY.
TODAY. LET’S WATCH.
LET’S WATCH. >> I THINK IF WE LOOKED BACK
>> I THINK IF WE LOOKED BACK OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS THROUGH
OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS THROUGH IRAN’S EYES, WE HAVE TO
IRAN’S EYES, WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT IT HAS BEEN THE
RECOGNIZE THAT IT HAS BEEN THE UNITED STATES THAT HAS BEEN
UNITED STATES THAT HAS BEEN BEATING THE DRUMS OF INCREASED
BEATING THE DRUMS OF INCREASED PRESSURE THAT THEY COULD
PRESSURE THAT THEY COULD INTERPRET AS PREPARATIONS FOR
INTERPRET AS PREPARATIONS FOR WAR.
WAR. THE UNITED STATES RENEGED ON THE
THE UNITED STATES RENEGED ON THE COMMITMENT ON THE IRANIAN
COMMITMENT ON THE IRANIAN NUCLEAR DEAL AND IMPOSED
NUCLEAR DEAL AND IMPOSED ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS ON IRAN AND
ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS ON IRAN AND FORCED OTHER COUNTRIES TO CHOOSE
FORCED OTHER COUNTRIES TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND
BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND IRAN AS FAR AS WHETHER OR NOT
IRAN AS FAR AS WHETHER OR NOT THEY WILL DO ANY BUSINESS WITH
THEY WILL DO ANY BUSINESS WITH IRAN.
IRAN. >> I’M JOINED BY RON REAGAN AND
>> I’M JOINED BY RON REAGAN AND COLUMNIST FOR "THE WASHINGTON
COLUMNIST FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST."
POST." GENE, EVERY TIME I HEAR THIS
GENE, EVERY TIME I HEAR THIS DRUMBEAT, I THINK ABOUT WA WE
DRUMBEAT, I THINK ABOUT WA WE LEARNED ABOUT WORLD WAR I.
LEARNED ABOUT WORLD WAR I. ONE SIDE MOBILIZE AND NEXT TIME
ONE SIDE MOBILIZE AND NEXT TIME WE ARE AT WAR.
WE ARE AT WAR. >> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. IT’S VERY EASY FOR SIGNALS TO BE
IT’S VERY EASY FOR SIGNALS TO BE MISINTERPRETED AND FOR
MISINTERPRETED AND FOR AGGRESSION AND ONE SIDE TAKES AN
AGGRESSION AND ONE SIDE TAKES AN AGGRESSIVE MOVE AND THE OTHER
AGGRESSIVE MOVE AND THE OTHER SIDE HAS TO COUNTER.
SIDE HAS TO COUNTER. THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YOU ARE
THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YOU ARE IN A CONFLICT AND A CRASH.
IN A CONFLICT AND A CRASH. IT’S EASY TO HAVE A CLASH.
IT’S EASY TO HAVE A CLASH. IT’S MUCH EASIER TO START THAN
IT’S MUCH EASIER TO START THAN TO STOP ONE.
TO STOP ONE. THE FEAR IS NOT SO MUCH THAT
THE FEAR IS NOT SO MUCH THAT DONALD TRUMP IS SITTING IN THE
DONALD TRUMP IS SITTING IN THE WHITE HOUSE SAYING BOY, I REALLY
WHITE HOUSE SAYING BOY, I REALLY WANT TO GO TO WAR WITH IRAN.
WANT TO GO TO WAR WITH IRAN. IT’S THAT HE IS SO INSECURE THAT
IT’S THAT HE IS SO INSECURE THAT ANY SORT OF ACTION BY IRAN, HE
ANY SORT OF ACTION BY IRAN, HE WILL HAVE TO COUNTER.
WILL HAVE TO COUNTER. THAT’S THE THING WITH ME.
THAT’S THE THING WITH ME. >> MUSSOLINI GOING TO WAR.
>> MUSSOLINI GOING TO WAR. WHY IN THE WORLD BESIDES EGO OR
WHY IN THE WORLD BESIDES EGO OR TALKING ABOUT THIS THING.
TALKING ABOUT THIS THING. WHAT’S THE WAR ABOUT?
WHAT’S THE WAR ABOUT? >> IT MAY WELL ULTIMATELY COME
>> IT MAY WELL ULTIMATELY COME DOWN TO BEING ABOUT TRUMP’S
DOWN TO BEING ABOUT TRUMP’S REELECTION.
REELECTION. TRUMP DOESN’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT
TRUMP DOESN’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT MUCH, BUT I THINK HE PROBABLY
MUCH, BUT I THINK HE PROBABLY KNOWS THAT WARS TEND TO HELP
KNOWS THAT WARS TEND TO HELP PRESIDENTS IN THEIR REELECTION
PRESIDENTS IN THEIR REELECTION EFFORTS.
EFFORTS. DO ANY OF US HERE SITTING HERE
DO ANY OF US HERE SITTING HERE TALKING THINK THE TRUMP
TALKING THINK THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WOULD BE BEYOND
ADMINISTRATION WOULD BE BEYOND COOKING UP A TAUNT AND GULF
COOKING UP A TAUNT AND GULF INCIDENT IF TRUMP THOUGHT IT WAS
INCIDENT IF TRUMP THOUGHT IT WAS IN HIS BEST INTEREST TO START
IN HIS BEST INTEREST TO START MILITARY ACTION IN THE MIDEAST
MILITARY ACTION IN THE MIDEAST TO GIN UP HIS CHANCES FOR
TO GIN UP HIS CHANCES FOR REELECTION?
REELECTION? I DON’T THINK THAT HE WOULD HAVE
I DON’T THINK THAT HE WOULD HAVE ANY QUALMS ABOUT THAT.
ANY QUALMS ABOUT THAT. HE SEES THIS ENTIRE THROUGH A
HE SEES THIS ENTIRE THROUGH A PERSONAL LENS.
PERSONAL LENS. I DON’T THINK HE HAS ANY REAL
I DON’T THINK HE HAS ANY REAL THOUGHTS ABOUT IRAN OR MIDEAST
THOUGHTS ABOUT IRAN OR MIDEAST POLICY AT ALL.
POLICY AT ALL. IT’S ALL ABOUT HOW DOES IT MAKE
IT’S ALL ABOUT HOW DOES IT MAKE ME LOOK AND WILL IT HELP MY
ME LOOK AND WILL IT HELP MY REELECTION.
REELECTION. >> THIS IS THE WEIRD THING
>> THIS IS THE WEIRD THING ACCORDING TO THE "NEW YORK
ACCORDING TO THE "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORT.
TIMES" REPORT. TRUMP’S BIG CONCERN IS NOT THAT
TRUMP’S BIG CONCERN IS NOT THAT WE GO TO WAR, BUT JOHN BOLTON
WE GO TO WAR, BUT JOHN BOLTON DECIDED WE GO TO WAR.
DECIDED WE GO TO WAR. HE’S NOT THE BIG SHOT AND THE
HE’S NOT THE BIG SHOT AND THE CHARACTER HE WANTS TO BE.
CHARACTER HE WANTS TO BE. I’M THE BOSS.
I’M THE BOSS. >> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. HE DOESN’T WANT IT TO LOOK AS IF
HE DOESN’T WANT IT TO LOOK AS IF JOHN BOLTON IS DRIVES THE BUS.
JOHN BOLTON IS DRIVES THE BUS. HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DRIVES
HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DRIVES THE BUS.
THE BUS. I’M NOT SURE HIS POLITICAL
I’M NOT SURE HIS POLITICAL CALCULATION WOULD BE THAT
CALCULATION WOULD BE THAT GETTING INTO SOME BIG MESSY WAR
GETTING INTO SOME BIG MESSY WAR OF THE KIND HE SAID WE WOULDN’T
OF THE KIND HE SAID WE WOULDN’T GET INTO AND GET OUT OF.
GET INTO AND GET OUT OF. I DON’T KNOW IF HE THINKS THAT
I DON’T KNOW IF HE THINKS THAT WOULD HELP THEM IN TERMS OF
WOULD HELP THEM IN TERMS OF REELECTION.
REELECTION. I DO WORRY ABOUT THE SORT OF
I DO WORRY ABOUT THE SORT OF ESCALATION.
ESCALATION. THERE IS NO PLAN HERE.
THERE IS NO PLAN HERE. >> YOU COME IN AND DECIDE TO GET
>> YOU COME IN AND DECIDE TO GET THE ENRON DEAL AND PUT PRESSURE
THE ENRON DEAL AND PUT PRESSURE ON IRAN.
ON IRAN. THEY DO THAT AND THEN WHAT?
THEY DO THAT AND THEN WHAT? TOWARDS WHAT END?
TOWARDS WHAT END? >> I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH ABOUT
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH ABOUT THE STORY ABOUT THIS QUESTION.
THE STORY ABOUT THIS QUESTION. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ABORTION
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ABORTION RIGHTS AND IT SOUNDS LIKE A
RIGHTS AND IT SOUNDS LIKE A DIFFERENT THING.
DIFFERENT THING. THE POLITICS ARE NOT THE
THE POLITICS ARE NOT THE DIFFERENCE.
DIFFERENCE. A LOT OF PEOPLE OPPOSE ABORTION.
A LOT OF PEOPLE OPPOSE ABORTION. SOME PEOPLE MORE OF COURSE, BUT
SOME PEOPLE MORE OF COURSE, BUT TO PLAY THE ISSUE AS IF YOU CAN
TO PLAY THE ISSUE AS IF YOU CAN OUTLAW IT.
OUTLAW IT. YOU DON’T WANT TO GET TO THE
YOU DON’T WANT TO GET TO THE POINT OF OUTLAWING IT.
POINT OF OUTLAWING IT. WANT TO PROMISE AGAIN AND AGAIN
WANT TO PROMISE AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN SO PEOPLE VOTE FOR
AND AGAIN SO PEOPLE VOTE FOR YOU.
YOU. IT MAKES SENSE.
IT MAKES SENSE. DOES HE WANT TO LOOK TOUGH LIKE
DOES HE WANT TO LOOK TOUGH LIKE WE HATE THE ENEMIES OF ISRAEL
WE HATE THE ENEMIES OF ISRAEL AND LOOK REALLY, REALLY TOUGH
AND LOOK REALLY, REALLY TOUGH FOR THE EVANGELICALS AND DON’T
FOR THE EVANGELICALS AND DON’T ACTUALLY GO TO WAR WITH IRAN.
ACTUALLY GO TO WAR WITH IRAN. YOU UNDERSTAND.
YOU UNDERSTAND. IT’S ABOUT POSTURE.
IT’S ABOUT POSTURE. IT’S ABOUT PRETENDING WE DOLL
IT’S ABOUT PRETENDING WE DOLL SOMETHING TO ROOT FOR YOU AND
SOMETHING TO ROOT FOR YOU AND VOTE FOR YOU HERE IN 2020.
VOTE FOR YOU HERE IN 2020. >> TO RESPOND TO GENE, TOO, I
>> TO RESPOND TO GENE, TOO, I DON’T THINK TRUMP DECIDED THAT
DON’T THINK TRUMP DECIDED THAT GOING TO WAR WITH IRAN WOULD BE
GOING TO WAR WITH IRAN WOULD BE GOOD FOR HIS REELECTION CHANCES,
GOOD FOR HIS REELECTION CHANCES, BUT HE WOULD LIKE TO KEEP HIS
BUT HE WOULD LIKE TO KEEP HIS OPTIONS OPEN.
OPTIONS OPEN. I THINK WE ARE BEING PLAYED HERE
I THINK WE ARE BEING PLAYED HERE A LITTLE WITH THE TALK ABOUT HIM
A LITTLE WITH THE TALK ABOUT HIM BEING THE RELUCTANT WARRIOR.
BEING THE RELUCTANT WARRIOR. THAT’S THE POSE HE WOULD LIKE TO
THAT’S THE POSE HE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE BECAUSE IT’S THE MOST
TAKE BECAUSE IT’S THE MOST USEFUL AT THE MOMENT.
USEFUL AT THE MOMENT. I DON’T THINK HE KNOWS.
I DON’T THINK HE KNOWS. HE WILL DECIDE IMPULSIVELY AT
HE WILL DECIDE IMPULSIVELY AT THE MOMENT.
THE MOMENT. >> HE WAS IN THE 60s.
>> HE WAS IN THE 60s. >> THAT’S TRUE.
>> THAT’S TRUE. THOSE BONE SPURS ARE STILL
THOSE BONE SPURS ARE STILL PAINFUL.
PAINFUL. >> YOU WILL NOT HAVE A CONCIERGE
>> YOU WILL NOT HAVE A CONCIERGE GETTING YOU OUT OF THIS IF IT
GETTING YOU OUT OF THIS IF IT GETS STARTED.
GETS STARTED. >> YOU’RE NOT.
>> YOU’RE NOT. UNDERLYING THE POLICY AS WE HAVE
UNDERLYING THE POLICY AS WE HAVE SEEN IT, THEY HAVEN’T REALLY
SEEN IT, THEY HAVEN’T REALLY ENUNCIATED OR SOMETHING LIKE
ENUNCIATED OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT PUTTING TOGETHER WHAT
THAT, BUT PUTTING TOGETHER WHAT THEY HAVE DONE, WHAT THE END
THEY HAVE DONE, WHAT THE END SEEMS TO BE IS WE ARE GOING TO
SEEMS TO BE IS WE ARE GOING TO PUT ON THE CRIPPLING SANCTION
PUT ON THE CRIPPLING SANCTION THAT IS GOING TO DESTROY THE
THAT IS GOING TO DESTROY THE IRANIAN ECONOMY AND SOMEHOW
IRANIAN ECONOMY AND SOMEHOW THAT’S GOING TO CAUSE REGIME
THAT’S GOING TO CAUSE REGIME CHANGE OR THE DRASTIC CHANGE OF
CHANGE OR THE DRASTIC CHANGE OF BEHAVIOR.
BEHAVIOR. THAT NEVER WORKS.
THAT NEVER WORKS. THAT WILL NEVER WORK IN IRAN.
THAT WILL NEVER WORK IN IRAN. IT HAS NEVER WORKED ANYWHERE
IT HAS NEVER WORKED ANYWHERE ELSE.
ELSE. IT HADN’T WORKED IN CUBA FOR 60
IT HADN’T WORKED IN CUBA FOR 60 YEARS.
YEARS. IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK.
IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK. >> EVEN THE HAWKISH PEOPLE WHO
>> EVEN THE HAWKISH PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT ISRAEL, I’M TALKING
CARE ABOUT ISRAEL, I’M TALKING ABOUT THE EVANGELICALS.
ABOUT THE EVANGELICALS. THE FACT IS, I WAS READING
THE FACT IS, I WAS READING TODAY, ANYBODY WHO IMAGINES A
TODAY, ANYBODY WHO IMAGINES A WORSE SCENARIO WHERE WE ARE
WORSE SCENARIO WHERE WE ARE FIGHTING WITH IRAN, HEZBOLLAH IS
FIGHTING WITH IRAN, HEZBOLLAH IS RELEASED ON ISRAEL.
RELEASED ON ISRAEL. 100,000 MISSILES AIMED EDED AT T
100,000 MISSILES AIMED EDED AT T LITTLE COUNTRY.
LITTLE COUNTRY. WHO THINKS THAT’S GOOD?
WHO THINKS THAT’S GOOD? PEOPLE SAID I WANT TO GO TO WAR
PEOPLE SAID I WANT TO GO TO WAR WITH IRAQ BECAUSE THAT HELPS THE
WITH IRAQ BECAUSE THAT HELPS THE MIDEAST.
MIDEAST. THE ROAD TO JURISDICTION.
THE ROAD TO JURISDICTION. WE HEARD ALL THAT CRAP.
WE HEARD ALL THAT CRAP. I’M TALKING ABOUT THE PRESIDENT
I’M TALKING ABOUT THE PRESIDENT NOW.
NOW. IN THE END, IT WAS A DISASTER.
IN THE END, IT WAS A DISASTER. THE WHOLE THING WE LOST TO ONE
THE WHOLE THING WE LOST TO ONE BIG BUFFER WITH IRAN IN IRAQ.
BIG BUFFER WITH IRAN IN IRAQ. WHO GOOD DID THAT DO ANYBODY?
WHO GOOD DID THAT DO ANYBODY? >> CONSIDER WHAT HAPPENS WITH
>> CONSIDER WHAT HAPPENS WITH SAUDI ARABIA?
SAUDI ARABIA? WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN BETWEEN
WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN BETWEEN THOSE TWO ENEMIES.
THOSE TWO ENEMIES. >> YOU KNOW MORE THAN THE
>> YOU KNOW MORE THAN THE PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. >> THAT’S NOT SAYING MUCH.
