ALEX DANILO: Hello everyone.
Welcome to our session entitled
"The Future of the Living
Room."
My name's Alex Danilo.
I'm going to be
moderating today.
I have Majd Bakar
and John Affaki here.
They're both Directors
of Engineering
for Chromecast and Google Cast.
So feel free to interrupt
anytime with questions.
There's a microphone over
here on the right hand side.
So if you just want to get
up and ask us questions.
So I just wanted to start with
just a little bit of scene
setting.
So if you remember in
the keynote this morning,
Timothy talked about the
living room of the future.
And that things
will just kind of
disappear into the background.
So one of the products these
guys have been responsible for
is, of course, Google
Cast and Chromecast,
which disappears
behind the TV set.
So that's kind of
this seamless thing
that you don't
actually see but you
get to access from your phone.
So maybe we could
start with where
did that actually come about?
What was the idea originally?
MAJD BAKAR: Well, so
our goal from Chromecast
was to bring as much content
into the new living room
with the phone being the
center of the digital life.
The new remote control-- echo.
The new remote control for
the living room, people
are-- especially
millennials-- they're
tied to their phones
and mobile devices.
And so they have their
whole digital life there.
So what's better than to take
that experience from the phone
and just amplify it, project
it to a larger screen
or to a larger speaker
or to other devices
and have that living room
experience be more emerging
and engaging with the user.
And as part of the living
room, Google's vision
is there is this people that
are very mobile focused.
And they are always on the go.
They are tied to
that user experience.
And this is where Google Cast
and Chromecast come about.
But we are also
having Android TV.
Where for a more traditional
experience was a first screen
UI and using a D-pad
remote control,
you can navigate a very exciting
UI and compelling experiences.
And Google is investing
heavily on both sides.
We provide both
platforms for you
as developers to bring your
experiences to the living room.
JOHN AFFAKI: Yeah.
And Majd gave the really
compelling consumer story.
But one of things
that we also wanted
to do with both
Cast and Android TV
was really for
application developers
to make it a very seamless
development environment.
Something that you're
used to developing
at this point for the
mobile users, people
who are either playing
games on the go
or watching media on the go,
using the same development
model to extend to
all of your device.
Whether again, it's Cast, where
you're using your Android app,
your iOS app to cast.
And really it's an
extension of it.
Or you're using your very
similar Android application
to run directly on Android TV.
So we wanted to
make it a little bit
of the best of the both
worlds, both for the developers
as well as for the consumers.
So that's where [INAUDIBLE].
ALEX DANILO: Got it.
And of course as a
developer, if you're
adding Google Cast
capability to your app,
whether it's iOS or
Android or whatever that
works on Android TV as well.
So it's kind of like
Android TV in some ways
is a super set of a simple
device like the Chromecast.
But then Google Cast itself is
spreading to all other devices.
Because we have
Cast Audio as well,
which is of course a great way
to send sound around the house
if you have a media app,
if you're playing music
or whatever.
And we've also introduced
multi-room audio.
So if you have
multiple Cast devices,
they can play in
perfect sync, which
is a really neat feature from
a developer's point of view.
So how many developers
out here have
had any experience with
developing Cast applications?
A few.
That's nice.
Good.
JOHN AFFAKI: What
about Android TV?
All right.
ALEX DANILO: A few.
That's good.
JOHN AFFAKI: Not much
overlap, actually.
ALEX DANILO: Yeah.
JOHN AFFAKI: Which is
kind of interesting.
ALEX DANILO: That
is interesting.
So as a developer,
what would you
say would be the strengths
of one of the platforms
over the other?
I mean, we're doing
the two platforms that
have different characteristics.
So where do you see different
types of application fitting
with the two models?
MAJD BAKAR: Well, I
wouldn't say that there's
one that is more
powerful than the other.
But it's more if you are
targeting different interaction
models, which might result
in a different user.
I would say younger
users, they would
like to have that
feeling of the phone.
They like to navigate
a list of songs
or playing a game
using their phone.
Other people, other
users might be
more interested
in just lean back
and having the remote
control with physical buttons
to navigate the shorter list.
JOHN AFFAKI: Yeah.
I think it really depends
on the type of application.
If you're going to
be very input heavy,
generally speaking,
whether it's search
or actually entering text.
Your phone is a much
better controller.
And at that point,
developing for Cast
is a much better interaction
model for the user.
Because the touchscreen
keyboard is generally
much more interesting
to use than either
a D-pad remote, where
you can enter passwords
on the screen or whatnot.
So you've got that type of user.
And as Majd said,
I think anybody
who's dealing with leanback,
generally speaking,
likes to have a much more
responsive experience
with the remote, or simple.
Where they don't
want to look down.
They don't want to
turn on the phone.
So I think it really depends
on the applications I think.
We've also got
applications, which
work in both of
the worlds, which
is you're starting
something maybe
on the bus or the train
on the way back home.
When you get home, you
just want to click a button
and continue that same
experience without actually
relaunching an application.
And that you can't really do
in say the Android TV world.
But you could do in Cast
in that you're really
extending your existing
experience onto the TV.
So they both have very
strong experiences.
But they're different.
ALEX DANILO: Yeah.
One thing also with the
platforms that in recent times,
there's talk of the GPU power
on devices like the Cast device
and the Android TV device.
And generally, the GPU is more
powerful on the Android TV
device versus a Chromecast.
So if you have an existing
Android app, extending it
to Android TV's natural.
And you get more GPU power.
But of course, we've introduced
the remote display API, which
I might get John to explain.
Basically, this is how you get
to use the GPU on your phone
but have Cast act as
a secondary display.
So can you talk about it?
JOHN AFFAKI: Yeah.
I mean, essentially
the Cast model--
if you guys aren't that familiar
with, a few of you that are--
is that there's two parts
to your application.
You've got one part that's
running on your mobile device.
And essentially, it's your
Android iOS or web application
that's running in Chrome.
And then you have part
of the application
that's running within
directly the Cast device.
And that's an HTML5 application.
Now with Cast, we've
never essentially-- we
focused on reach with Chromecast
and getting the device
to as many people
out there as possible
with a very low price point.
Which means we've never had,
you know, 980 GPU in there.
We've never had anything
great as far as power.
Because its main purpose
was to stream video.
But games on there have
been-- games with Cast
have actually been
doing very well.
Because again if you're
thinking about us extending
the reach of the mobile
applications to the TV,
mobile gaming is huge.
In case you haven't noticed.
And so we really wanted
to be able to extend
that experience to the TV.
But the GPU is very limiting.
And so one of the things
that we've really looked at
is actually using the
GPU that's on your phone
and having you be able to build
your game natively for Android
or iOS but render to a
second screen or basically
a virtual display and
stream that to the TV.
And that's actually
worked really well.
If you take a look-- and I
think Khaled is giving a talk
a little bit later about this.
Where we can actually
get really high action
games going, where you can
have really great rendering.
If you're looking at
the high-end or actually
even mid-end Android
devices and iOS devices
will actually allow you to deal
with really great graphics.
And we can get very good
latency within the living room
so that you can't really tell
that you're actually rendering
everything on your phone.
And really the
best part of it is
everybody's upgrading their
phones year after year.
So as you upgrade your
phone, your game console
or your gaming
experience actually
gets better every time.
And for developers, it's
actually a very natural model,
just like developing for
a native Android TV game
is actually fairly
trivial once you've
done Android development.
You know, basically it's the
same development platform.
In this world, you don't
have the added complexity
of the HTML5 receiver
that you're dealing with.
You're really building your
game and just rendering
two screens on the same device.
And we will take care
of pushing it out.
And again when we're
looking at the developers,
Unity has been a massive
model for environment
to develop games four.
And we've built
this Unity plug-in
that makes it absolutely
trivial to do so.
So [? row ?] displays, it
really brings the ability
to extend your games in
a simple matter to the TV
if you're developing for Cast.
So it's going to be good.
ALEX DANILO: Yes.
So do we have game
developers here?
Any game developers?
Oh, yeah.
A few.
About the same as Cast.
Yeah.
Very good.
Anyone have any questions
you'd like to ask us?
Don't be shy.
Yes.
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].
But what is the
competitive threat
Android TV has to somebody like
Samsung or Vizio [INAUDIBLE]?
ALEX DANILO: So the
question was what's
the competitive threat
from something like-- well
between Android TV and
other manufacturers
that embed their own
devices in the TV set?
We believe in a
healthy ecosystem.
So it's not so much as
a competitive threat.
It's like, you know, we
believe the best platform
will win out in the end.
And of course,
Android TV's currently
shipping in all Sony TVs.
So all Sony Bravias
are all shipping
with Android TV at the moment.
And, you know, that will
continue to increase.
It's nice to see these
different platforms play out
against each other.
And at the end of the
day, if developers
move to a particular platform
that will make it successful
and other manufacturers will
follow on, that's what we hope.
But again, it's up
to market forces.
That's bit of a
difficult question.
MAJD BAKAR: But at
the same time use,
I mean at Android TV we
have several partners.
At CS last week, we announced
additional partners.
Sony TV-- Sony is a big one.
But they are another five
that's followed suit.
And we see that as expanding.
As developers, I mean, you
should target the platform
that has the most
compelling user
for your particular application.
And in some cases,
you might be need
to target multiple platforms
until things settle down.
This is the same as in phones.
Right?
We still target Android and iOS.
So this will continue to
be even in the TV space.
AUDIENCE: Just a
quick follow on.
How long do you think
that will continue?
ALEX DANILO: The
follow on question
was how long do you
think that will continue?
MAJD BAKAR: That's a
bit hard to guess that.
Look, Android is a very
compelling platform in general.
Bringing it to a
TV is definitely
a huge step for that ecosystem.
And maintaining a platform
is very-- it's not easy.
We are committed to doing so.
And we'll continue to bring
innovation and stability
to that platform.
JOHN AFFAKI: And one of
the-- and again, it's
not a matter of advantage
versus disadvantage.
But to some extent, there is.
Right?
In many cases to bring your
application to Android TV
is not much of a decision if
you've already got an Android
phone application.
AUDIENCE: I'm asking you this
as a former [INAUDIBLE] owner.
I think [INAUDIBLE] Android
on the TV [INAUDIBLE].
Because I've wanted that.
Because I want that
Android experience.
And now I see that Samsung
and Vizio and others
have stepped up.
And I'm just worrying,
as a developer,
as, you know, I tell my students
what should you build for.
Having backed the
mobile-friendly developer
platform if you already
have an Android,
being able to push
those [INAUDIBLE]
onto the device that was
built for that platform
is very compelling.
But there are other
thoughts, you know,
that developers build
for where the money is.
And if Samsung can make it easy
to go through all of their TVs.
and they're
dominating the market,
then why wouldn't [INAUDIBLE]?
MAJD BAKAR: So I mean,
time will only tell.
I don't think it will be only
one platform to be honest.
I think it there will be
multiple platforms that
will stay there.
But we are committed
to Android TV.
And you're going to see more
and more OEMs and even a larger
user base coming in this
year for Android TV.
So it will be competing
in terms at least of size.
Is it going to be the
only game in town?
I don't know.
ALEX DANILO: Again,
and as a developer,
you probably have to-- like
I'm a developer too, right?
So you have to work out
where to spend your time.
So if you do have the
Android application already,
right, it's trivial
to extend to the TV.
So that's not a big
investment for already
a growing ecosystem.
If you've got a media
consumption app,
I would say, look
at Google Cast.
Because that gives you the
install base of Cast devices.
There's like over 20
million of them out there.
And it's continuing
to sell like hotcakes.
And those things will run
on Android TV as well.
So there's a really safe
bet for like a media app.
So again, it depends
on what you're doing.
If you're a gaming person,
you need to come and listen
to Khaled's talk next.
Because he'll go through
a whole lot of stuff
about how to actually
build for gaming.
And in the remote display API,
which we brought, which we just
spoke about, is a great way
to get high performance gaming
through those Cast devices.
So again, horses for courses,
depends what you want to do.
But I mean, some of the
other major platforms
around, I mean, you
have Firefox OS on TVs.
You have WebOS.
I mean, the choices are there.
And they will just all play out.
But what's interesting
about Firefox OS and WebOS--
this is a slight deviation from
what we we're talking about.
But both of those are based
on HTML5 technologies.
And Google Cast originally
chose HTML5 as the platform
to run on the Cast device for
that whole easy to develop--
Because it's familiar to a
number of different platforms
and different types
of developers.
So it's the amount of effort as
a developer, how much time you
have to invest to get
your app on that device.
And we see both
Cast and Android TV
as being two fairly easy
paths to making that happen.
MAJD BAKAR: Yes.
ALEX DANILO: Yes.
AUDIENCE: I hear-- the
media criticizes having two
completely different paths.
Right?
I mean, how do you
respond to that?
Because it becomes
confusing to the consumer
two devices that from
their perspective
do exactly the same thing
from the same company.
ALEX DANILO: OK.
So the question was
that the media often
says that we have two
conflicting paths or whatever
and how do you resolve that?
Well, the media say a lot of
things, which is interesting.
And we have two different
paths in like Chrome OS
versus Android, right, as well.
So we have two major
operating systems.
It's a question of
providing different options
for developers.
Because some are suited better
for some style of application
versus the others.
And it's also a question
of trying new things.
The media has been
saying, oh, you
should merge Chrome OS
and Android for years.
But they've both become
successful in their own right.
So there's no reason
that the Cast ecosystem
can't live alongside
Android TV forever really.
It's not like you
have to make a choice.
MAJD BAKAR: And
we're still seeing
that some people have
preferences for one interaction
model over the other.
Eventually maybe
in five, 10 years,
you'll have one interaction
model that will be the norm.
But for the short term at least,
some people have preferences.
I, for example, I
definitely prefer
to use a phone as
my remote control.
But other people in
my household might
prefer to have a
physical remote control.
So and this is why
we are offering--
I won't say they're competing.
They are more complementary.
And we're trying to make
sure that we satisfy
the larger number of consumers.
But we are providing
you with the tools
and-- especially as Alex
said-- on the media side,
you can write your
application once
and it will be available
to both platforms.
Yes?
AUDIENCE: You said you
prefer to use your phone
as a remote control, right?
The Android TV app right
now is very limited
to leanback navigation.
You have to swipe
to go everywhere,
keyboard in the phone.
Are there any plans to
open an API to offer
more control to the
developers for remote control
of the Android TV?
ALEX DANILO: OK.
The question is
about Android TV.
And Majd says he prefers to
use the phone as a remote.
And at the moment, Android
TV's more the leanback thing
with the phone.
So are there any
plans to introduce
new APIs for different
input options
from the developer
point of view?
MAJD BAKAR: So for
the time being,
we're focusing on making
the leanback solution
for Android TV very solid.
There's still some
work to do there.
And we are investing heavily
in the developer tools
to make it easy for you to
bring up that experience.
Also while the usage of
Android TV is increasing,
it's still a relatively
nascent platform.
So we want to make sure
that we have uniformity
in the experience to make sure
the users don't get confused,
at this time.
In the future, we might
be looking at this.
But for now, we're not.
ALEX DANILO: I think we had
another question out the back
there.
AUDIENCE: Yeah.
Just a riff on this idea of
the future of the living room,
push it a little bit harder.
ALEX DANILO: Good.
AUDIENCE: It seems
that you guys believe
TV is a part of our future.
So I find that interesting,
because maybe it's not.
However, I'm a huge fan of
Cast and what's going on.
And I think you guys are in
a push me, pull me situation.
where you're kind of
like keeping one leg
stuck in the 20th century idea
of the entertainment model
while helping us think
about the 21st century.
ALEX DANILO: Thanks.
Very, very interesting question.
Do you want me to
repeat the question or--
MAJD BAKAR: Do you want to--
ALEX DANILO: OK.
So the question is more about
the future of the living room.
We're talking about
the future of TV
and whether or not TV
will be in the future.
And we kind of have
one foot in both camps,
one in the 20th century
with screens everywhere,
and the 21st century
going beyond that.
So what do we think?
MAJD BAKAR: I mean,
you're right that the way
we've been consuming TV
is still very traditional.
You sit down just
slouch in your couch
and watch a broadcast
type of interaction.
We do think that with
Cast we could open up
additional avenues there.
Because we're trying to bring in
the power of the mobile phone,
the power of the touch
screen that is 17 inch away
from your eyes, very engaging
experience to that leanback
traditionally very
one-way experience.
So you can build interactive
two-way applications,
two-way interactions
with your users.
And at the same time, have
very, very complex navigation,
complex user experience
that usually you
can't get when you are 10
feet away or 5 meters away
from that screen.
But on the flip side,
there are aspect
of the TV that,
while traditional,
are still going
to continue to be.
The first is TV is social.
And by social, I don't
mean like social network.
But usually, it's more than
one person experiencing that
together.
And we've built a case in
North America and Europe,
we've built living rooms
all around that TV.
If you have wall with a
large screen, and people
are facing that and interacting
and consuming from it.
And that's something you
don't get with a small screen.
So there still will
be consumption there.
Empirically though,
what we've seen
is when people who
are traditionally
mobile consumers-- so
let's say a teenager who
consumes their
YouTube or Netflix
on the phone or tablets.
Once they use Cast and cast
that content to a larger screen,
their usage increases
dramatically.
We're seeing increases
between 30 at 70%.
In some cases, even over 100%
increase in minute consumed.
So that will continue to play.
We do think that between
Android TV and Cast
and the ability to bring
that mobile experience
into the living room,
we'll be able to give you,
as a developer,
more tools to bring
more compelling experiences.
We're not going to be
bringing those experiences.
We're relying on you to do that.
We are the platform providers.
So we give you the tools,
and then up to you to do it.
JOHN AFFAKI: And the TV
is one of the examples.
If you're looking at it,
really what we're looking to do
is get you to consume your
media, your games in the best
device in the house.
The TV is an example.
And Majd just
talked about, which
is like the larger screen which
allows social experiences.
Speakers are another one.
Right?
I mean, if you're looking,
yes, we can think of the future
where everybody's
got their VR headset
in a corner in their
headphones and basically
consuming their media all alone.
But the reality is at
the end of the day,
whether it's
speakers or TV, we're
just looking to enhance your
experience and make it better
and increase consumption
time for all of your apps,
et cetera, et cetera.
So it's not just the TV.
It's really about if there
was another medium where
we could extend that experience
where it would make it better,
we would look at
extending it that way.
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].
JOHN AFFAKI: Yeah.
Sure.
AUDIENCE: One that
VR will be social.
Right?
So it's not going to be just
people dystopically sitting
in the corner.
So I think we have to have
a bigger vision about what's
going to happen.
Right?
Again, we're bringing all of
our historical baggage with us.
But I think that's wide open.
Right?
What it means to be a
node in the network,
we haven't even really
figured out yet.
Two, the idea that TV is
connected to the distributor
is the problem.
Right?
You guys are helping
to break down the fact
that we can actually distribute
that identity to what it is you
watch, when it is you watch it.
And you're talking
about, yes, it's
a better experience
on the screen.
I just want to keep
pushing the living room.
Right?
I want to keep pushing
the idea that we
don't have to keep thinking
that that remote control that's
got 40 useless buttons
is going to be there
in two years from now.
Like, why?
Right?
And I think that
we can push harder.
JOHN AFFAKI: Absolutely true.
And the problem is when
people talk about TV,
sometimes they mean the physical
TV, the physical screen.
Sometimes they mean the
TV service as your service
you get from Comcast
or Time Warner
or whatever other provider.
Definitely our goal in
introducing the mobile aspect
of the experience
into the living room
is to give more options
both to consumers
and to content providers,
service provider, developers,
or whatever.
So we want to give
you more choices
and try to open
up that ecosystem.
So let's continue
working together.
ALEX DANILO: OK.
So any more technical questions?
We're getting quite a few
interesting questions there.
I've got a question.
Now we can have
multi-room audio.
So it's a real
technical question.
We can have multi-room audio
with multiple Cast Audio
devices.
Will we one day possibly
have like synchronized video?
So we can have multiple
screens in the house playing
the same music video, so I can
have a multi-room disco party.
[CHUCKLES]
MAJD BAKAR: Technically,
it's definitely feasible.
We have the technology to do it.
I don't think the
infrastructure is there yet.
And by infrastructure, I
mean home infrastructure.
Wi-Fi routers or
even regular routers
are still not powerful
enough and not
be able to handle that amount
of videos flowing in the home.
There might be few
that would have.
But until we have mass appeal
or mass penetration of that,
it will take time.
Another thing is so far--
it sounds very interesting.
It's cool.
I'd like to use it.
But I would like
to also understand
how big that use case
would be, how many people
would want to have
the same video playing
all around the house.
Yes.
ALEX DANILO: We have one, two.
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].
MAJD BAKAR: So currently,
we're focusing on audio.
And that technology is
definitely portable to video
and would be able
to synchronize them.
Actually as it turns
out, synchronizing video
is easier than
synchronizing audio.
Because the latency and
the tolerance of your ear
is much, much, much
higher than your eyes.
So we can do that.
We need to wait until
the network is available.
ALEX DANILO: Network
can deal with it.
Cool.
Ah, question.
Yes.
AUDIENCE: I don't know-- can you
scale the video on Chromecast
to 4k?
MAJD BAKAR: Currently,
Chromecast supports only 1080p.
We'll see when we add 4k.
ALEX DANILO: All right.
Cool.
OK.
We've got probably enough time
for maybe one last question.
OK.
AUDIENCE: I want to follow
up with this question.
There are Android TV
devices that are 4k.
Is the Cast protocol
only [INAUDIBLE]?
MAJD BAKAR: Thank you.
ALEX DANILO: The question
was about whether or not
the Cast protocol's
limited to 4k
because there are
Android TV 4k devices.
MAJD BAKAR: No.
Actually, Cast protocol has no
limitation on the resolution.
It's a matter of
the actual hardware
being able to decode 4k.
And then obviously, you
do need to make sure
of your network throughput.
So this becomes
like people's home,
whether their routers and
their broadband connectivity
is capable of handling 4k.
4k Bitrates these
days is anywhere
between at the low, low
end, 10 megabit per second.
And it goes up to 24
megabit per second.
So you need to make sure
that you can sustain that.
ALEX DANILO: OK.
Wonderful.
Well thanks, Majd and
John for a nice insight
into the living room.
Anyone want to
follow up with this,
office hours will
be from 3:00 to 5:00
over in the other building.
So feel free to come and ask
us all sorts of questions.
And enjoy the rest
of the conference.
And thanks for listening.
