and get started because we have
a lot of great content today.
And so, I'm Cynthia Bennett a
postdoc in Carnegie Mellon's
human computer interaction
Institute. And this is
accessibility seminar where we
invite community members and
researchers to talk about
accessibility and disability.
And so we'll begin with a couple
of access notes, so please keep
your mic muted, unless you are
going to speak, and before
speaking please say your name.
And we are starting to use a
captioning service called
otter.ai. So if you'd like to
follow along with a real time
automatic transcript of the
seminar, you can do so by
activating the live on otter.ai
notes indicator in the top left
of your screen. Activate the
drop down arrow and choose the
option to view stream on
otter.ai live notes, And that
should open up a URL will where
you'll watch the captions
appear. So please write
something in the chat or
interrupt the facilitators if
you're having trouble accessing
the seminar today we want to
make sure we fix those problems
if they arise. So today we are
talking about universal design
for learning what we will call
UDL from now on. And as we all
know, COVID has changed the way
that we do construction, all
together but even before that,
we knew that about 20% of people
have disabilities, and studies
have shown that up to 70% of
students who can benefit from
accommodations actually don't
request them. So maybe some
students don't know that they're
eligible or others find the
process to be really difficult.
And so, UDL is a different
philosophy that instead of
having to request accommodations
that courses should be
accessible and flexible from the
beginning. So students have a
lower barrier to participate. So
we're joined today by three
experts in UDL, which they will
define and kind of give examples
of in more detail. But first
I'll introduce them. So going in
alphabetical order, I'll say a
panelist name and then the
panelists can say hello so their
video becomes prominent, and
then I'll read a brief bio. So
Brianna Can you say hi. Heather.
Well, Brianna Lazar is a
counselor and coordinator at the
disability opportunities
internetworking and Technology
Center located at the University
of Washington. She's a project
manager for several national
science foundation projects
including access competing and
access CS for All. And most of
this work focuses on increasing
access to computer science
education and careers, and we're
excited to welcome Brianna back
today because she actually got
her bachelor's in psychology and
math from CMU. Next, we have Meg
Can you say hi.
Hi everyone.
Hi. So Meg Ray is a freelance
consultant, education,
researcher and adjunct
professor. She teaches online
special education courses at
Hunter College, in which she
actually models, the UDL
approaches to researches and
trains and Mac's research
concerns teacher developments on
how to insert UDL into computer
science education. And finally
we have Sarah.
Sarah Can you say hi.
Yep, I'm just finding the unmute
button. I'm sorry. Hi. Hi. Sorry
about that.
Thank you, Sarah sly is the
professor at the Rochester
Institute of Technology and the
director at the Research Center
for Teaching and Learning at the
National Technical Institute for
the Deaf. She's an award winning
post secondary educator who
researches and trains faculty on
how to implement UDL and deaf
education into their pedagogy.
And she also centers deaf and
disabled student perspectives
when evaluating curricula and
works to raise participation of
deaf and disabled scholars in
the academy. So now we'll move
on to our questions and so I'll
kind of ask a big question, and
the panelists will get an
opportunity to answer and then
at the end we'll have some time
for q&a. So as an introduction
I'm curious if y'all can each
name kind of one experience you
had briefly that motivated you
to start implementing UDL in
your own practice and we'll go
in alphabetical order, just to
make things easier so beginning
with Breanna.
Excellent. Well when I started
working at do it, I actually did
not have a background in
disability so my graduate work
was in women's studies and
thinking about women in science
and engineering. And the reason
that there's so much under
representation there so I have
very little background in
disability when it came to do it
but I was willing to learn. And
one of the first things I did
was helped to edit a special
issue of the journal and post
secondary education disability
and one of the articles in there
was specifically about
captioning. And I'm sure Sarah
has a lot to say about
captioning as well, but it
talked about the benefits of
captioning not only being for
students who are deaf or hard of
hearing and are using those but
the extent to which folks like
non native speakers of English
relied on captioning to learn
and how it helps with jargon,
and it's just such a clear
example you know and the more I
thought about it was like, gosh,
I actually watch the captions on
my TV at home all the time
because I miss something or I
want the volume turned down low
and my kids are sleeping or, you
know, whatever. So that that was
kind of my first eye opening
moment of like, oh, there's a
reason we can do this that
actually helps everybody.
Thanks, Meg did you want to add
to that.
Yeah, for me it was from my own
personal experience as a
graduate student. I have several
disabilities including ADHD OCD
and chronic illness. So, For me,
I it in the handful of courses
that used UDL as a graduate
student, it was very useful for
me. And I could have really
benefited from more of that. So,
just from that experience I
recognize that a lot of my
graduate students, even high
performing students may have
disabilities I'm unaware of so
that's why I was interested in
doing that.
Thank you for sharing that
experience and Sarah I'm
curious, can you round our
introductions out.
Absolutely, um,
you know at this point in my
career, it's interesting because
I also have sort of a long view
back and I suspect that my, what
motivated, much of my work is
are some grown up experiences
that I had where my family moved
to two different countries and
put me into native schools. So,
I have always come at this from
a language perspective and
increasing ways for people to
interact when they have
different communication
preferences skills variability,
whatever. I also for 20 years
now have been the parent of a
child with a mobility
disability. They have CP and
they use a wheelchair so that
also has my, my window into it,
it has always been in terms of
interaction you know how how
social interaction can happen
when there's a combination of
wheelchairs and wheelchairs. So
really for me it's all about
interacting well and I've always
just sort of had this way of
looking at things and this urge
to look at things so that we can
increase interaction in the
classroom and in classroom
spaces, learning spaces.
Yeah, thank you so much I love,
I love these framings of
thinking about like how UDL
might increase interaction as
well as you know benefit
everyone and so I think Meg is
going to elaborate a little bit
on like what we actually mean
when we talk about UDL.
Yeah. Um, so, UDL is a framework
for planning and instruction. So
it's not sort of a checklist of
strategies you can use although
those checklists are helpful for
ideas. It's more of a mindset
and an approach to teaching. So
it's based on universal design
and architecture, very classic
example is a curb cut, where
some people need the curb cut to
access the sidewalk and everyone
else benefits from it, including
people strollers luggage roller
skates, I guess, wooden roller
scooters, etc so it's a
proactive approach rather than
waiting for a student to come to
you and ask for accommodation,
or for to notice a student
struggling. It's sort of
anticipating. This is my
learning goal, what are the
possible barriers with these
students, and then how can I
offer options, and flexibility
so that they can fully engage.
Um, and then they're, you know,
they have sort of different
guidelines and categories for
giving these options and those
are related to how are the
students engaging with the
class. How are you, representing
content to them and how are they
expressing to you what they're
learning. So, it's, it's also
this idea that route moving from
somebody means to have a
recognized disability with a
label to this idea that we all
have this spectrum of abilities,
and whether or not a student has
a label, they may have, they're
on a spectrum of how they take
in text information, how they
write in English. All, all these
sorts of requirements that we
have in classes. So recognizing
and expecting that spectrum, as
normal, and, and then just
planning for it so
basically widening
access.
Thank you so much for that
overview mag and. Next I think
we'll kind of get into some fun
stuff about like, Okay, what
does that mean like what are the
101 practices that you would
suggest for us to incorporate
into our instruction and I would
love for all of y'all to weigh
in and you can kind of figure
out
who who would like to go first.
I can share some things.
You know I've been thinking a
lot about online learning and,
and particularly, we know folks
are coming to mind learning with
so many different things
different internet connections
so even things like being open
to whether people turn their
video on or off depending on how
good their internet speed is who
might be there in the background
how messy their houses all of
those things can make it, you
know, more welcoming. Sharing
slides ahead of time so that
folks can use those to plan for
the class make notes, sharing an
agenda at the top of the day,
this is what we're going to do
and here's the order. And also
getting clear expectations.
We've been reading a lot of
familiar bajillion my house
lately. I don't know how many of
you have read those books, but
they don't, they ask her to do
something and she doesn't ask a
follow up question but they
don't give her clear
instructions and every time she
does the wrong thing right and
you know just how much could she
have that benefited from some
more clear expectations.
Those are some, some of the
simple things off the top of my
head. I'm sure you all can add
to them,
my cursor keeps disappearing.
It's a real problem. I'm finding
that you button. There are so
many simple little things, um,
and, you know, for me, one thing
I end up talking with faculty a
lot faculty are teaching face to
face, and this works for zoom
when you're sharing information
in multiple screens also for a
lot of folks, folks, if you're,
you can listen to someone
talking and you can watch some
other piece of information
happening either graphic or text
or video or whatever, you can
watch and listen at the same
time. But that's an extra kawit
cognitive load for many many
many students, deaf students in
fact cannot listen and watch at
the same time. So, one strategy
is to not talk while you're also
sharing something that you want
students to watch or to read.
Just be silent, take a break,
let them watch and read, and
then talk after they're done
it's super easy when they're in
front of you. If you're in a
face to face class just see when
their eyeballs come back to you
when they start pointing at you
again rather than at the screen.
To some extent that works with
zoom too it's a little bit
harder because you share a
screen thing anyway. But there's
various ways you can have people
raise their hand when they're
done or, you know, there's
various little ways to manage
that but that's one tip I find
that can make a lot of
difference to a lot of folks
it's not particularly an
accommodation per se, it's, I
don't think I've ever seen a
letter from the disability
services office saying to not
present things in two different
channels at the same time, but
it's something that is designed
for a particular kind of
students challenges when they
can't. When they're accessing
information from the visual
channel, well if this two
sources of information from a
visual channel at the same time
which they can't do, but it
helps a whole bunch of people at
the same time. So
that's one example.
For me an example is examining
what what do I assume
participation should look like.
And then, imagining other ways
that students might demonstrate
engagement and participation. So
just because we're in an online
world now giving examples from
that. Brianna brought up having
the camera on so in a
synchronous setting. Having your
camera on have looking at the
camera speaking, I'm
contributing verbally to
conversation, these are sort of
the typical what what we might
assume is active participation.
And then, in a synchronous
settings. Lots of writing,
writing on the discussion board,
writing in annotations, things
like that. So, what are
alternate ways that I can offer
to students to demonstrate their
active engagement in the course
that doesn't require them to do
it in one way that they may not
some people just might not
prefer, and others just really
have a barrier to accessing.
I love that kind of prompts,
like for I think that's a great
question. I can ask myself is
like what am i assuming people
are coming into this interaction
with, and then kind of trying to
figure out, that's probably
wrong or at least not complete.
I'm curious if it just in follow
up if any of y'all can describe
what are the multiple options
you give.
So, you know just using Meg's
example, instead of writing Can
somebody record an audio comment
or a video or draw a picture,
you know, thinking about other
ways that folks can sorry I've
got my nice to me it's
distracting me, but are there
ways that folks can give that
again demonstrate that
knowledge. Even things like
using breakout rooms or small
group discussions in addition to
lecturing right.
Yes, so I do happen to teach in
an education department.
however, I recommend this for
any department that there are a
lot of free k 12 tools out there
now, that have some of this
functionality built in for you
so for example right now. During
my students are doing readings
and learning pods and their pod
is annotating together in an app
called Cammy Cammy allows them
to type a comment to just like
Brianna said voice, video draw,
upload an image, any of that so
they're having a conversation
that's asynchronous. And, but
it's also, they get to choose
what that looks like and what
that motive and I didn't have to
do any work to set that up. I
just chose Cammy and it was all
set up for me. Um, and it's the
same with the reading in
graduate courses that I teach,
it's very text heavy like many
courses are and providing
platforms that offer text to
speech that offer changing the
font size, making adjustments
based on personal preference,
and then having trip
dictionaries and translation
built right in. is very useful.
Hey, Sarah Did you have anything
you wanted to add
yeah let me just toss out one
more thing so if you're using
zoom breakout rooms, one thing
that can be handy is to have a
companion Google Doc for the
whole class at once and then
when the breakout rooms are
done, and they come back have a
little report out section in
there it's not that you need
every single person to type in
there it's that someone can talk
and say, could you please type
whatever you know just you have
a little section where the
different groups can report out
on what they were discussing,
and then the whole class gets a
bit of a notes from from that
whole session, even on the
groups that they weren't in. So
that's an example of where you
can add something extra that
helps everyone out it doesn't
require anyone to respond in a
particular way. But then also
leaves people with resources at
the end.
Thanks so much, Sarah and I have
to I. We were going to do a
Google Doc, for this session and
I didn't set that up. I'm sorry.
Next time. Oh, Thank you. That's
a great, that's a great tip but
kind of just like living living
document that can then kind of
become an artifact. So, moving
on. I'm curious what
misconceptions do. Have you
found that like instructors or
department heads or others have
about UDL and what strategies
have you used to kind of help
get people on board. And I'm
happy for anyone to address
this. Hopefully all of you.
The thing that I get most often
most quickly is like, Oh my
gosh, I can't possibly design
something for everybody and when
I haven't even met the students
before class starts. And that's
not really the goal, the goal.
The way I approach it is, you
know, you try. Look, I'm likely
to have some folks who could
benefit from talking and from
typing. Okay, we can build that
in. But then, um, I often think
about, you know, when I see
something happening in class is
like, Oh Is there something
quick I can adjust for that. So,
I am using I'm teaching right
now and I'm using Google Docs
fairly heavily and one student
had scheduled a one on one with
me and she said, you know,
really help if we had some
section breaks in between
sections in the Google Doc
because it gets really
overwhelming. That's totally
easy so I insert page breaks
now, or they can. There's stuff
like that that are just simple
reactions to trouble spots that
you're noticing that can really
help one thing at a time.
I think that overwhelming that
response of being overwhelmed is
super common and I think we do a
lot of professional development
for faculty, and they basically
are like I don't have time for
that. I don't have time to do
any of this. And so we asked
folks to kind of take and and
look at both the things that
they already are doing like
you're probably doing some
things that already are good
practices of universal design
right. Maybe you're recording
your lecture so that folks can
watch it asynchronously or
rewatch it right so you can
identify some strategies you're
already using you know give
yourself a pat on the back, and
then identify the low hanging
fruit so Sarah's example is
perfect right like oh I could
introduce some scaffolding
within this Google Doc I have,
and that's going to help people
for a variety of reasons. Right.
And then identify what are those
longer term things that are
something you could do or want
to do, but you're not going to
do it right now, but maybe next
year when you're redesigning the
course or you know in the future
and kind of keeping track of
those and hopefully actually
coming back to them right
instead of that just being that
to do list you never get to.
Yeah, this to build off of that
this idea of. Don't wait till
you have the time to figure out
how to fully incorporate UDL
into your entire course. Do one
thing that you can do right now,
in this context. And maybe
that's a really small thing the
first time that's okay. It's so
much better to start with one
small thing, and widen access
that way than to wait till that
time that never comes when
you're fully prepared. Um, I
think for me it's this idea that
it may this fear that it could
sort of make the class easier or
threaten the academic integrity
of the class. And I would say
that this is it's not about
that. And if that's what you're
doing, then that's not UDL right
it's about giving students the
access to fully participate in
all of that rich academic
content and rigorous content.
And it may look a little bit
different than we're used to.
But you wouldn't want to be
taking any of the high level
thinking, or learning goals, out
of it.
Now here's a thought maybe I can
ask a couple of questions that
are a little bit off script just
specifically I'm curious if you
have any thoughts about, first
of all, maybe how greeting looks
differently like I think we have
a lot of rubrics for kind of
text based or programmatic based
assignments, um if any of you
have ideas on like, if you do
make submissions more flexible,
how do you translate that rubric
to assess something like a video
or a drawing or something like
that.
We're all rushing to answer that
one I see.
I think like grading anything,
it just takes sitting down and
figuring out what you're really
after you know what are the
outcomes that you're looking
for. Is it really that you want
them to write 12 sentences on
some topic, probably not. You
probably don't care so much
whether they write it or if they
say it or, you know, you're
looking for, like, have they
summarized one or two media
ideas relevant to the question.
The thing I have more moved more
to lately is. It's called an A A
specifications grading where I'm
looking for folks to get to a
certain competency competency,
I'm not looking to evaluate
whether they're an 83% or an 89%
or 92%. I don't care. They don't
usually care. So I have switched
recently and everything, I give
them bins of things to shoot for
if they want to be they have to
complete this stuff and they
have to complete every piece of
it at a satisfactory level, and
if they want an A they have to
do that, plus an extra set, and
then everything is either
satisfactory not and I give them
a very clear guidelines on what
satisfactory means, and that's
the key. So, makes my job very
easy enough I go through and I
see is that satisfactory Yes, if
not, they have to redo it. And
then redo it. And it's just very
simple, so it takes sort of a
lot of the pain away about
upgrading, how has
that changed the sorts of grades
that kids are getting in your
class that students are getting
into class.
Not a lot.
Not a lot.
Not everybody goes through a.
I made a program where they have
to get a bita in all their
courses in the program so it
makes it very easy it's a derby.
So I don't have to worry about
CS, but you know it's also very
clear it would be easy to add
another level below that and
it's very clear whether or not
they reached the target.
Thanks for asking that question
Brianna, because I think that
really materializes this like
that it is a myth that by making
your course accessible and by
making expectations clear that
it doesn't mean everyone's just
going to pass, they still have
to do the work. So thank you for
that. And the other kind of
follow up question a little bit
in this area of misconception,
but less not totally is. How do
you recommend folks strategize
toward those larger changes that
may require maybe department buy
in for things like supporting
captioning, or supporting other
kind of tools and resources or a
switching grading policy or
something like that. Do you have
any recommendations for how to
move toward those larger scale
structural changes.
I mean, I feel like offering
tangible demonstrated examples.
Here's what this looks like. In
this course, in our department.
Here's what it could look like
for every course in our
department and looking at really
doable incremental changes. So
like you gave the example of
captioning. So, working towards
one goal. That's very focused as
opposed to, let's do everything.
And then any tools that you
create. And you can share
departmentally and other faculty
are able to use and benefit from
also creates motivation.
Now I really like that example
of thinking about like chunking
it out and so I think for
something like captioning I
think of like okay maybe it's a
step is that you know all the
videos that we show will have
captions right and then another
step would be moving toward kind
of a live content captioning.
So, I'm, I'm curious. Next
Sarah, if you can just share
with us a little bit about why
you know sounds maybe
contradictory but why, even if
we are practicing Universal
Design for Learning we still
need to be supporting students
who do need accommodations.
Sure. Um, I think, you know,
accommodations are required by
law, first of all know we all
must comply with that and
students are entitled to it. And
it really sets a baseline for
what students need to succeed in
the classroom. In my experience,
it's not enough and it's not
comprehensive. So, and the
things that we're talking about
with Universal Design aren't
necessarily going to be
addressed by the disability
accommodations that are listed
in a letter. Often the
accommodations are things like
somebody needing extra time for
tests or quiet room to take
tests or access to an
interpreter or, you know,
materials in an alternate format
like in electronic format. Those
are pretty basic access needs.
If we go beyond that we're
really starting to talk about
inclusion and full inclusion and
engagement and interaction in
the classrooms. So, if we can't
have inclusion without access
First of all, but second of all,
it's a good first start but it
certainly doesn't give you
everything. So we can't ignore
it. In many cases, I think it
doesn't take a whole lot of
effort to go much further than
that. So, that's my, my view on
on accommodations versus UDL.
And I'm curious if I'm sorry to
cut you off. I was
just going to see if Brianna or
Meg had any other additions to
that but go ahead.
Well, I was just gonna say I
think that's totally right on
right like something like you
mentioned somebody with a
mobility impairment, you might
need an adjustable height table.
Well, you know, the college
might not have one in every
classroom but an accommodation
to make sure that that exists in
the classroom that student needs
it in, you know, that's, you
know, clearly an accommodation
and even captioning automatic
captions suffice for the sake of
universal design, but they
wouldn't necessarily suffice for
sufficient access for a student
who is deaf or hard of hearing,
because we all know the quality
of automatic captions varies. So
just a couple examples.
Yeah, Meg Did you have anything
to add.
Sure, just on the flip side of
that. Just like Sarah said
earlier, even with universal
design you can't design for
every single possible
accommodation and that's not the
goal of UDL. And so really
they're complimentary to each
other, UDL working hand in hand
with accommodations.
And I'm curious if any of you
can speak to your experience as
an instructor. Is there anything
anticipatory that you can do,
like, before the class begins to
kind of anticipate
accommodations or help students
understand that, you know, those
are welcome in your class, even
though it's legal like are there
things that you do to help
students make sure they know
that that's something you.
Welcome.
You know I think a simple thing
to do is oftentimes you have
that statement in your syllabus
right about disability services
office but highlighting that and
encouraging students to have a
conversation with you about
their excess needs. You know,
even if I hit student hanji the
letter that they've gotten or
you know you get the letter
through the system of what
they're entitled to that letter
doesn't necessarily tell you
everything that's useful to know
about that student. And so
encouraging that open dialogue
is important and as Sarah
pointed out when you have those
conversations sometimes you
learn something about a simple
fix that you can make that makes
everything better. for folks.
Yeah, Brianna, I love this
statement idea, I put that in my
syllabus so it's not so it's
also personalized it's coming
from me. In addition to the
required one. The other thing
that I do is I usually send out,
especially right now I'm
teaching completely asynchronous
classes so connecting with
students is difficult that way
so I send out a survey, the
first week of class and one of
the questions is, Do you need
any accommodations for any
reason, you know if they come
back with something completely
unreasonable I say let me help
you access, you know, the
disability office or let's come
up with something else. But
usually, they're completely
reasonable. Sometimes students
disclose a disability, and
they're not registered with the
accessibility office. Other
times, you know, they're asking
for another reason. I have to do
all my work in a shared room, so
I can't speak out loud. I have,
you know, twin six month olds,
at home, um, you know, and
normally students really ask for
things that are really very
reasonable and things they've
usually already built in.
Thanks so much for that and mega
Thank you started to get out
kind of the next big question
but I'm curious how how UDL has
changed or what is particularly
important now with much of our
learning being hybrid or remote,
or asynchronous, you can point
out any specific changes or
specific UDL practices that are
just even more important.
You know one thing we've talked
a lot about is setting clear
expectations for how you want
folks to interact right so if
you are having synchronous
meetings. Do you want people
using the chat. Do you want
people asking questions verbally
or in the chat you know and
letting folks know what you want
when questions can be but then
also allowing folks to ask those
questions in different ways
right so I was talking to a
student. This week who has a
neurological issue that affects
her fine motor control, and you
know she was looking at a
conference and the conference,
all of the questions had to be
answered, via text, you know,
text entry and she was like, I
can't do that I also can't use
voice input. You know my, my
speech to text tool, while I'm
listening to something, you know
without getting interference so
I don't know how I'm going to
interact right so just letting
folks ask questions and multiple
ways, telling them whether you
want them to use the raise hand
function or you know whatever
settings your tool has and
letting folks know that that is,
you know, huge.
I think in some, some things are
easier now like many many many
textbooks now have an electronic
version, so that's gotten a lot
easier and I just automatically
now included my syllabus
multiple ways to access the
book, if there's a library copy
if there's an electronic copy if
there's a you know a way to
purchase it other than through
the bookstore. So I just post
that really early and make make
some options really clear from
the get go. In some ways so that
part's gotten easier. I think
the things that are harder are
what people are mentioning, you
know, flexibility for
interacting and different
conditions that people have
going on at home that you may or
may not know about
the two concerns I hear from
students, just across the board
are with online courses are not
understanding directions or
having miscommunications, and
then feeling less engaged
because they're not connected
with the professor or community,
other learners so kind of some
quick fixes to that or when
you're giving instructions. What
is the second way you can give
the instructions. Maybe it's a
checklist plus you go over it
verbally. When you're presenting
information. Can you do it in at
least two modalities right can
you have a video, and a text
right that's the easiest but
there's also other ways there's
interactive ways as well.
So, just that baseline,
are you communicating in
multiple ways. And then really
being intentional about
providing opportunities for
students to collaborate and
engage with each other. Because
they may not take the initiative
themselves or really know how.
Thank you so much, so I'm
curious if y'all just have any
before we move to the q&a if
y'all just have any other things
that you wanted to add that
maybe came up for you during
this panel and you didn't get a
chance to share.
You know, make brought up this
idea of not everybody's
necessarily registered with the
disability services office and I
think that's a really important
thing to think about.
Particularly for students with
invisible disabilities getting
the documentation, they may need
to let it be clear what their
diagnosis and barriers are and
getting an accommodation can be
extremely expensive. So you know
it's one way to think about too
like a lot of students with
disabilities are not necessarily
served and those are students
that are going to be underserved
for a variety of other reasons
so making some of these
adjustments and strategies and
asking for feedback from
students can help those students
who might otherwise really be at
a disadvantage.
For me, I would say, you know,
when you teach, especially large
numbers of students, over time,
it's really easy to get jaded
and see some communication as oh
they, they're just trying to get
escape by they're trying to make
excuses. But this idea that
sarena Hammond talks about in
her book on culturally
responsive teaching which is
about, how do you widen your
aperture for explanations of
student behavior. What are just
like stepping back and pausing
and thinking what my other
alternate explanations Be and it
doesn't mean that you let
students get away with anything
or dismiss that behavior but it
just means you're open that
there may be other legitimate
reasons, as you address the
issue with the student. And I
think especially for me now kind
of coming from the perspective
of a former grad student with
disabilities, that meant the
world to me. When a professor
had that wider lens and didn't
just assume some, something
about my intense or motives.
When I was struggling so I think
that's one of the biggest things
that you can offer to a student.
What an excellent way to phrase
it Meg thanks.
Um, I think you know related to
both what Megan and Briana are
saying, I am constantly tossing
out there to students hey let me
know if there's anything you
need to learn this better. It's
a conversation. It's inviting a
conversation. I think a lot of
when I talk about this to folks
sometimes the other faculty they
sometimes they think, Wow,
aren't you opening yourself up
to a lot of really wacky strange
requests. And I can say, you
know, most of the requests are
really minor, they're like can
you add page breaks. You know
it's not just not such a big
deal. And the requests that are
off base are usually wildly off
base, I have one example of a
student who asked for an
accommodation due to disability
that he didn't want to work with
one particular person in his
classroom and that's not an
accommodation for a disability,
nor does that match with the
collaborative nature of the
small group assignments in the
first place. So, you know, it's.
For me it's always been really
clear when it's a reasonable
request and when it's not a
reasonable request so if that
helps dispel any of the myths
about, you know, how, how much
students are going to get by
with or if you know they're
going to, they're going to
whatever they're going to steal
the whole thing if you give them
an inch. by and large, they make
relatively small requests.
Thank you so much. Um, so yeah,
we'd love to have a take some
questions. And this, this has
been super and I yeah thank you
all so much I've learned a lot
and Meg I really appreciate kind
of concluding framing is just
like widening our aperture for
like, what, what could be the
reason. And so if you'd like to
ask a question, if you could use
the raise hand feature on zoom
and Amy Pawel one of our other
postdocs will kind of address, a
call out your name for you to
ask the question.
While we're waiting for people
to raise their hand I don't yet
Oh, there's this one. Go ahead.
June.
Okay. Um, I'm coming through.
Thank you all again for the
wonderful tips and tricks. I
think they're personally useful
to think about, um so my
question. I think I should
explain my background a little
bit on an undergraduate student
but I also, depending on the
semester to a relatively large
intro programming course. And
one of the sort of pitfalls with
this kind of the course size is
that there's a very set method
of instruction, the assignments
are written and they're done in
a certain way. And this is
something that I've had a lot of
struggles with sort of Virginia
because it's such a fixed system
it's been there for like eight
nine years. And the specific
thing is like, students are
asked to do written assignments
on PDFs. Number one, that's
really hard because editing a
PDF, like scribbling on top of
it. You either have to have
specialized hardware where you
have, where you have a map or
you might have preview but even
that's not accessible, so on and
so forth and just like beginning
conversation and saying, hey,
let's try to figure out some
other way to make this work like
pored over the assignment with
different method like. That was
really difficult and so from
your perspective when you guys
were addressing a faculty
members and their resistance to
change what what what was that
conversation like. Yeah.
You know, I'll just say I think
particularly as a TA it can be
really hard to address some of
these issues because you're
doing, you're not making a lot
of these decisions and a lot of
these choices right. Beyond that
a lot of teams I know have
struggled because they don't
necessarily get access to
information about accommodations
when they're working with
students to know that this
student needs to X Y or Z right
because a lot of times that goes
to the faculty member. So I
think that they're really hard
place to sit from, but you know
sharing feedback with faculty
and making suggestions,
particularly constructive
suggestions of those low hanging
fruit that could help make a
difference, maybe a place to
start. But it's definitely a
difficult place to sit and I
I empathize with that.
Yeah, I, if you're interested in
making these sorts of changes as
a TA I really recommend focusing
on relationship building with
the faculty that you work with,
and then coming from that
perspective, and specifically
for computer science education.
There are kind of two angles
that I've seen be effective. So
one is, we know that departments
are losing marginalized students
they're losing women, they're
losing LGBTQ students they're
losing students of color. And so
changing your pedagogy can
actually help retain those
students. And so we've seen like
at Harvey Mudd where they have
gender parity now after they
made major changes to their cs
101 course. Now they've written
so they've written papers on
that process of what it was
like. And so, you know, citing
research, citing examples from
other universities and having
this goal of retaining. Our
students can can be a useful
argument.
I think the only thing I can add
here is that sometimes just
having conversations not between
a student, trying to get a
higher grade and the professor.
But between a student as a
consumer or a TA, who works with
students who are trying to work
through with these materials
just having conversations about
hey how could this go easier and
sometimes if you have ideas on
what could actually make it
easier if you present those
ideas in a problem solving mode
rather than a, you know, you
professor making it really hard,
you know, I think it's you know
it's it's a relationship it's
trying to find common ground and
figure out common needs and, you
know, everybody, for the most
part is focused on the same
thing, you know they want
students to learn and they want
to teach well, so that's kind of
the goal.
So, I had a quick question. So
if you would like to ask a
question by the way you can use
the raise hand feature. This has
been really awesome to hear so
far I like taught my first
course like semi recently and I
mean, just from this I'm like oh
there's so many things I want to
do differently, but I one
question I have is group work
and how to ensure that not only
when students are in your class
on on your time and you can
structure the time but also
where they go off to their own
groups if there's things you
might consider and that's both
in the individual in the work
itself and also in the like
group formation that you could
consider to make it more, you
know, UDL, like,
I know one thing that we talk
about is figuring out how you
can structure that group work,
you know, can you give folks an
indication of here are these
different roles here are
different ways that people can
engage and encouraging students
to advocate for themselves once
they're in a group right so
encouraging a student to say hey
you know what this doesn't work
for me because of x y or z i
really need to take on this role
like and encouraging those
conversations
can go a long way.
And adding to that also asking
for feedback from group members
about the group dynamics early
and often can be really good.
What you don't want to have
happen is get to the end and
have somebody say well I did all
the work and that person didn't
do any, I mean that's just a
recipe for disaster. So, build
in group dynamic,
problem solving, early on.
Yes, thank you. That's really
helpful I like the planning in
the processes, ahead of time is
probably a great, great thing
for a lot of these things. So
the next question is from sunny.
Greetings professor, it was a
wonderful session so I
previously worked on ethical
approaches to empower disabled
graduate students in STEM, and I
basically looked at how is DS
functions and the
responsibilities of disabled
students to get that foundation
or to get registered and post
COVID. So, what are the
responsibilities of the
instructor. How is the, you know
communication between the, you
know, the three nodal points of
the, you know, Universal Design
for Learning, I guess, you know,
and start building those
Disability Services and
students. So these three. You
know units need to function
properly, I guess. So, you know,
since everything has shifted
virtually. They can't go into
get their documentation, they
can't go into get their, you
know, registered. So how is this
functioning and how much of a
burden is it for students. Now,
I saw a fair number of listservs
where there are Disability
Services professionals and just
like all the rest of us they're
shifting online so doing virtual
intakes, so you can still get
registered send in electronic
versions of documentation and
that kind of stuff. So a lot of
that has changed I think the
accommodations that particular
students need may change as they
shift as things shift online for
a variety of reasons. You know
even one of my colleagues who
has some hearing loss. She has
to advocate every meeting, can
you all please put on your
headsets because I hear more
clearly if you have your headset
on right and so that's something
that we wouldn't have had, you
know, an in person meeting. But
so having those conversations
and making sure that students
documentation reflects that or
that they can tell you like
what's different for them in an
online setting than not.
And I think just keeping in
mind, this is not about any
individual institution but
across the board in higher
education. You know, there are
real barriers, including real
barriers to accessing the Office
of accessibility. That, that
could make it very difficult.
even if students have a very
clear cut disability and needs
specific accommodations so just
keeping that in mind, being an
advocate, when you can when,
when it's requested.
And just supporting students
through the process.
Yeah, and I think you know the
one challenge is that often
faculty get this letter and
that's it. They, they give the
extended time they allow for an
interpreter in the classroom
they make sure that there's, you
know they they talk with the
disability office and make sure
that physically office can get a
electronic version of the book,
you know, stuff like that. I
think the trying the the three
pieces need to really continue
working together and continue
collaborating in it often is not
that hard to make stuff happen
that students need and students
really can function much better
with, so anything to keep that
communication going is helpful.
I think another aspect to that
relationship too is something
I've heard a lot from graduate
students is that the
accommodations that they might
have gotten as an undergraduate,
are kind of meaningless as a
graduate student right, you
don't need extended time on
tests right. General exams are
structured in a way that may or
may not work depending on a
student's disability there's a
lot more about navigating your
relationship with your advisor.
I've spoken with blind graduate
students, I'd have a hard time
getting accessible versions of
journal articles are
participating in you know the
kind of the scholarly process.
And so I think that's somewhere
to where faculty member current
faculty members need to be
understanding that this will be
services, particularly depending
on your institution may or may
not be able to offer graduate
students what they really need
to be successful and so being
willing to work with students
listen to them and be creative
about how to make that work
is important.
I'll just add just to put this
out there to float this idea for
those of you in a position to do
this. I'm also working on a
special Computer Science Program
at NYU, and we are actively
recruiting grad students with
disabilities and developing a
relationship with the Office of
accessibility so that when we
recruit these students, we're
not just recruiting them into
something that doesn't have
support. But working together
with that office and I you know
it takes time. So, I expect that
we will be building this
relationship over the next year
before we start enacting
anything. But consider
recruiting students with
disabilities into your programs.
I see up there in funding.
Oh yeah okay good
guy that's oh wow one more
question I'm curious, so I have
been to around like 50 Student
Disability Services websites in
United States like top of
school. But I couldn't find much
of resources for international
graduate students with
disability to begin with. To get
started, and to get
accommodations as well. So, like
what is the state of, you know,
getting disability, you know,
services support on, you know,
for learning, right now.
I think that's an interesting
question and different
Disability Services offices have
different philosophies towards
documentation. Kind of an old
school approach was to really
require specific documentation
that had a diagnosis so they
knew exactly what the issues
were and what issues were
accessibility issues needed to
be addressed. And some newer
approaches are a little bit less
reliant on that specific
documentation, and particularly
for an international student
depending on you know what kind
of documentation, you can bring
whether it's an English and what
what that kind of big, I could
imagine that that could be a
struggle.
I know,
I know several of our students,
international students that we
work with through access media
were particularly worried this
summer to about being all these
issues you know when one student
in particular who's like, had a
spinal cord injury since he's
been in the US and he was like
if I get sent home. It's not
accessible back home right and
so there definitely are specific
issues there, but I'm kind of
babbling at this point so
I'll stop talking. I think we
have time. If there's a really
quick question.
But we are about a time.
So thank you so much for taking
the time and just, I'm so
excited that this video will
kind of live on. And so we will
be able to kind of pass it
around once we post it in a few
days. So, thank you so much.
This is a huge hit. I'm really
glad to have you all here. Yeah,
just have any final words,
otherwise I think, I think we
are
done for today.
Cool. Thanks so much. Brianna
Meg and Sarah. I will post the
link to the video, kind of on
social media in a few days. If
you have any other questions let
us know. I am curious if someone
can do me a favor, we have an
email list, where we post
announcements for the talk so if
someone out there Nami so it'll
take me a while and could post
the link to join the email list
in the chat, we'd love to have,
y'all on that list if you're
interested in learning about our
upcoming talks.
Thanks for the invitation Cindy
This is great. Yeah.
Cool.
All right. Hi everyone.
Hi everyone, until the pleasure.
Thank
you so much. Bye.
Thanks. Bye.
Thank you for hosting Cynthia
yeah Magnus was great. Thank you
so much.
Have a good one. Thanks you to
by, Cynthia for organizing Thank
you may think.
Thank you, Sofia.
Yeah. That was very so well.
Yeah.
