Today, guys, we're going to help
you learn how to best optimize
your Patreon page by taking
a look at my own Patreon
page with Peter Hollens.
He knows a lot about
this kind of stuff.
He's going to help both of us
coming up right after this.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Hey, guys.
My name is Tim Schmoyer.
And welcome to another
episode of Video Creators.
This channel is all about
helping you guys grow
your YouTube audiences
so you can spread
a message that changes lives.
And today I'm really excited to
get an evaluation of my Patreon
page to figure out
how I can better
turn this into a bigger
part of my business,
here at Video Creators.
And to help me with that
is this guy, Peter Hollens.
Hey, Peter.
How are you man?
I'm doing great.
How are you guys doing?
You guys.
I'm doing great.
I'm doing great.
There's multiple you.
There's lots of people
watching this right now.
So we're all doing great.
So tell us a little
bit about your channel,
what you do on YouTube,
and how came to Patreon,
and, your involvement there.
And then let's dig
into my Patreon.
You can find might
work on YouTube
by just typing in Peter--
which is great-- SEO.
I think it was the third day
Patreon had ever gone public.
I actually had two or three
fans on multiple platforms
say, hey, I just found
this really cool company.
I want to support you on it.
The second I went to the site,
and I understood the concept,
which was completely
new at the time--
that Jack Conte and Sam came
up with, the co-founders-- I
was just completely blown away.
I started my account.
And I started just,
literally, harassing them.
I was like, I want to help.
This is brilliant.
How can I be a part of this?
And so, very quickly,
I adopted it.
I pushed it out at
the end of my videos.
And actually,
eventually, Jack and Sam
had me come on and be an
adviser to the company.
And your Patreon page is
doing pretty good, right?
Oh gosh.
It's a pretty substantial
part of your income,
supports you and
the work that you're
doing-- the way you're
trying to serve creators
and your audience, as well.
Yeah, it's mind blowing that
my entire family can live off
of my Patreon page alone.
That's awesome that
people love you that much.
So let's look at mine, though.
What do you see here?
So my goal here,
Peter, is-- primarily,
is, as you-- I think everyone
else knows-- is like,
how can I use this
to, first of all,
better serve the people who
are in my community, who
are learning to
grow their channels,
and spread messages
that change lives?
But also do that in a way
that makes it sustainable
for me to continue to
serve them financially?
So what do you see here?
Right, could you scroll down,
just so that everybody can see.
You only have two reward tiers
that are both, in my opinion,
decently low considering
the amount of information
and the options that
you have the ability
to offer as either someone that
has digital products, someone
who can consult.
I would, literally, sit down
and brainstorm every single one
of those different
modules in your courses
that you've ever done.
Think about the possibility
of breaking those up.
Think about the
possibility of, each week,
giving access to one
module week two-- a tier
that's like, $15 and above.
I mean, basically,
like, turning this
into a subscription
service that provides
a tremendous amount of value.
But unlike when people
can go to your site
and just buy these
things in bulk,
you're giving them to
them like, once a week.
Another idea-- and I know
that's kind of convoluted,
because you have so much
products available that you
can do that with.
I got lots of stuff I could
sell and make a part of this.
Yeah, you're right.
I would make it so
that you have like,
a $3, a $10, something
around like a $25-- so maybe
something around $50, $75--
and then maybe something
more substantial around $150.
So is there a point where you
have too many reward tiers--
people just like, I don't know?
Absolutely, so that's
another great point.
I would grow it slowly, right?
So you don't just throw
down nine reward tiers,
because people just get
totally overwhelmed by too
many options.
I would say, five is
a really good number.
OK, I only got two.
Right, so I would maybe
double that to four.
And then see if maybe
there's another reward
tier at some level
that you're like,
oh, this might really work.
So if you need to adjust a level
because it doesn't make sense
to you, I've done
that numerous times
and it's never been
something that anyone's ever
complained about.
Truthfully, no one's ever
complained once to me--
Really?
--on Patreon about anything.
The main question I
had about was like,
changing this on people.
Like, hey, you were
paying $9 a month.
Surprise, $15 a
month, or whatever.
Like, how does that go over?
And that conversation needs
to be a conversation, right?
It needs to be like, hey, guys.
This is what I'm thinking.
How does that make you feel?
Is it OK if we do this?
And if like, everyone's
up in a huge uproar, then
maybe you just need to
start a different tier.
And you can bite
the bullet on that.
And put a cap.
So moving forward, no
one else can get that.
And you can slowly
push that cap out
once people stop supporting.
I want to tackle something that
I think is much bigger, though.
So let's go to the
top of your page.
I truthfully believe that
it is incredibly important
to be a per piece of content.
The per month thing,
in my opinion,
just doesn't make sense.
So say the thing--
a monthly fee,
for people who might not
be familiar-- on Patreon,
there's two options.
You can pay someone on a
monthly, recurring fee,
or you can pay them
every time they
publish a new piece of content.
I think it actually
allows there to be
more transparency between
supporter and creator.
So if I'm going to switch
to a per piece of content,
one that's more motivation for
me to make sure I keep getting
that content out, because I
don't get paid if I don't.
Right.
But-- and which, too, helps
serve the creator better
for the money that
they're contributing.
But I feel like,
just by listening
to you talk, it feels
less like a, hey,
I'm paying my
monthly Netflix bill.
Instead it's more
like-- it feels
like it's more personable.
Like, I'm paying-- there's more
tangible-- what I'm actually
getting each time.
Absolutely.
And I feel like this
entire experience,
from a crowd-funding
perspective and why
this is so different than a
Kickstarter, Indiegogo, is
that this is all about really
gracefully and handholding
your community.
And your fostering a community.
And I think that's a
much better way to do it.
It's transparent.
Everything needs to be
transparent and real.
My next question would be,
on your videos on YouTube,
do you tell your
community about Patreon
or do you thank your current
Patreons who are supporting
you, at the end of your videos.
Probably not as often
as I could or should.
Like, in this video--
when I do my news videos--
one of the perks for the $3,
they get more news stories.
And so, I say, at the
end of this video,
I'll be, like, if we actually
have three other stories.
I'm talking to you
guys about this, that,
and the other thing.
I'll be posting those for
those of you who are Patreons,
or patreon.com/videocreators,
thanks for your support.
And that's kind of it.
And then I keep going.
I don't spend a lot of time.
OK, I have a much better
recommendation for you.
So I think the entire
pushing-- the concept
of just-- the overall concept
of pushing people behind a pay
wall to, like,
there's more content,
I don't think that's
as much-- I don't think
that's more successful than
truthfully just thanking
your current Patreons who
are supporting the content.
And then just saying, if
you guys what to know more
about it, click right here.
Also, I think a no-brainer
level of support on a reward,
is including people's names
at the end of the video,
especially for
like-- it's almost
like they're an associate
producer of your content.
So I would say, you
could very easily have
a per content-- like a
$50, or a $25, or a $35,
or a $40 of-- have your
name at the end of every one
of my videos, right?
Yeah.
And then in doing so,
in a very naturally--
and in a genuine way, allows
you to thank the people who are
supporting at this reward tier.
And it then-- it gets people
to always-- number one,
it gets you to always talk
about Patreon in a very
genuine, authentic way.
But number two,
it's very genuine.
You're like, thank
you guys so much.
You're given me way more
money than you should.
This is awesome.
If it's like $50 and you
get 50 people doing that,
do you give all 50
of them a shout-out.
Or do you limit it
to less than that?
Oh, it's not a verbal shout-out.
It's, literally, just--
Oh, on screen?
--scrolling credits, yeah.
Oh, I see.
So thanks-- I got you.
And so during your
close-out, you just
naturally thank-- you
thank your Patreons.
When you become a Patreon,
you have the ability
to have a thank you message
or a thank you video.
Your thank you video
is your intro video,
which I think is totally lame.
OK.
You need to have a very
genuine, like, iPhone video.
Not like, right in front of
your blah, blah, blah screen.
But like, you
sitting on the couch,
maybe with your kids-- I know
you're a huge family man--
you just being, like,
thank you guys so much.
It means the world to me
that you support what I do.
It's because of you that
I get to keep doing this.
And it means-- and
say something that's
truly meaningful from the heart.
You're establishing that
connection right there,
because in the end,
no matter what--
and I tell every
single person this,
whether you're a
musician, whether you're
a personality-- the only way
you're really going to succeed
is if you get people to like
you for who you are as a person.
And I know it means
a lot to you to help
show good family values,
and who you are as a person,
and being a good father.
I feel like you
can do things-- you
could do this simultaneously
through your Video Creators
brand.
But when you're behind
this Patreon community,
I think you're allowed to now
become both things at once.
And so I think your thank
you video is the first intro
to, oh, wait, Tim has a family.
And like, how cool is that?
So I think that's a great
example of-- duh-- thank them.
Yeah, you could say--
They just gave you
your credit card.
And number two,
this is who I am.
And this is who I am
in a normal setting,
not in front of a cool gray
screen with great audio.
Anyway, so I think
that's important.
No that's good.
That's good, yeah.
I haven't even
thought about that.
So talk a little bit about
the two different videos then.
And do you have
some tips or ideas
of how to make a good-- because
mine's actually hidden right
here, because I'm logged in.
So this is what would
show up to someone
who's not yet a Patreon.
This video and then talk
about that second video one,
after someone does
become a Patreon.
Your video is, number
one, just too long.
Too long, OK.
How long is it again?
Let me look.
It's four-- oh yeah, 4, 13--
four minutes, 13 seconds.
So in the end, your
message gets lost,
because just like a
normal video on YouTube,
people's attention spans
are-- they're smaller.
But my point is,
get to the point,
tell them really quickly, what's
Patreon, what your goal is
on it, and then, probably, what
they can get from it, right?
And I think it needs to
be-- I think you need
to be in and out in under two.
And I think there's
multiple great examples
that Patreon has, actually,
given as demo videos.
And we can leave links
to that down below.
And I can send it
to you on email.
And I can go back to my--
there's a video then, guys,
for those of you
who might not be
aware-- that shows after
someone pledges to support you.
I'm trying to find it here.
I'm not sure where it's at.
Oh no, it would be
rewards, probably.
Yeah, I think so.
OK, yeah, so down here,
it's just a thank you video.
And the message is nice.
But it should be more
personal, in my opinion.
Yeah, let me pull that
up here, because it's--
It's just the same intro video.
Oh.
You see what I'm saying?
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
I thought I had a
thank you one there.
Apparently, I don't.
You do not.
I should just take
this one down for now.
I do agree.
That's kind of insulting.
I agree.
I should just keep this message.
Thank you.
So this is what my thank
you page looks, currently.
Otherwise you can have
a video up here, guys.
But, yeah, OK.
Well I've already
made one improvement.
We haven't even
finished our call yet.
Yeah.
Then I would-- this is kind
of going all over the place--
but I would go back
to your main page.
OK, now go to Goals.
Your current lowest
goal is $1,500.
Now go to the right-- $3,000.
Then go to the right-- $6,000.
Go to the right-- $10,000.
Go to the right--
$25,000.
OK, let me tell you a little
something about, what I feel,
the human mind desires.
You need to have a
goal that is well
within your initial
reach of where
you are and, in my opinion,
you should already have goals
that you've already achieved.
I think it's just
one of those things
that people want
to see you growing.
It makes them happy if
they're already your Patreons.
And also, the people who are
about to be your Patreons,
they want to help you
make it to your next goal.
So should add, probably,
like a $50, $100, $250?
No, not necessarily
at this point.
But I think, for other
people who are starting,
start smaller.
Have some smaller ones and
then have realistic ones.
And then you-- and just
think about the fact
that you can add
goals later, right?
Not necessarily at
this point in time,
where you're already at $450.
Adding things that you've
already gotten makes no sense.
OK.
But you could, at
this point in time,
set a goal for, say, $750,
because I think that's much
more well within your reach.
And that cute little
orange line now
is going to go a lot farther
down once you do that.
Yeah, makes it look like, all
right, he's getting traction.
He's going somewhere.
Yes.
Can you, really quickly, go
to patreon.com/peterhollens.
I want to compare the
two, because I think--
Peter H-O-L-L-E-N-S-- bam.
So number one, see that I
have links on the top right?
I just think on every social
media site of any kind,
you should always have that.
OK, now go down.
Notice how on my Patreon I have
images, because I think it's
a tiny bit more tantalizing
to the eye to see that.
And see how I'm like, where
your money goes-- here's
a nice little-- another image.
Awesome rewards-- here's
another image, another image.
I think that it's very important
to keep people's eyes--
Visually simulated.
Visually happy, right?
And then hey, if you do
$15-- a video for the year--
I'll send you a
personalized message.
And I give an example, right?
And then I'm like, here.
This is-- and I'm showing
people the examples.
And then I show people my work.
I just think it's very important
to visually stimulate them.
If your Patreon campaign's
going to succeed,
it's going to succeed because
you are a good community
manager.
It's not going to succeed
for any other reason.
They don't really care that
much about all your rewards,
because if they
really did, they're
probably going to go support
somebody on Kickstarter.
I mean, yes, you're going
have super, super fans.
But I just think it's all
about building a community,
building that
closeness, and you want
to have that direct to
supporter relationship.
Yeah, and then-- so I think one
thing I'm going to right when
we're done here is, I'll
just send out a quick message
to my 88 Patreons and
just say, hey, guys.
Thinking about reevaluating
some of these perks.
What else do you guys want?
What else would be
valuable to you?
And just ask for some feedback.
And let them just go
crazy in the comments.
And then just look at all
their feedback, right?
I would even lay it
all out on the table.
Be like, this is all of the
content I've already created.
What would make the
most sense to you and I?
I'm thinking of doing x, y, z.
And x, y, z might be
doing it per content.
x, y, z might be relaunching
the entire thing.
I mean, it just
depends on how strong
you believe that bond is.
Go to your dashboard.
My dashboard.
I would go to-- I
would go to engagement.
By the way, nice
growth right there.
Looking nice, nice.
OK, so right here, this
is-- I assumed this.
I think you can see the health
of a community on Patreon
by how much they're engaging.
I think this is a
no-brainer for anything.
You can talk about
the same stuff
that you already know
very well on YouTube.
You can have tons of
subscribers-- blah, blah,
blah-- whether that's-- you
could associate that with
Patreons and revenue on here.
But if they're not engaging,
and that watch time
isn't very high.
Let's just make an example.
Right.
Then you're not-- you don't
have a very healthy community.
So you're going to have people
engaging with you if you're
engaging with them.
So I would say, every
single comment on Patreon,
no matter what,
should be responding
to-- every single one.
And here's the reason why.
Because they've given
you their credit card.
And they've trusted
that this relationship
is one in which you're going
to pay attention to them.
So if you're going to Facebook,
if you're going to YouTube
and you're answering comments
there before you're going
to Patreon, I'm sorry, man.
You don't know what
the hell's going on,
because this is your super fan.
This is your community.
This is the people that
you need to bend over for.
Yeah.
And not only should you respond
to every single comment,
but you should be
engaging with them.
And you should be making
that conversation occur.
Now let's go to
Patreon Exit Surveys.
OK.
So basically, for
those of you guys
who are listening to
this later, or something,
it says, the creator wasn't
engaging like I expected.
The creator wasn't engaging.
I'm not happy with the Patreons.
OK.
So no matter what, you're going
to have a lot of people saying,
my financial
situation has changed.
Every single one
of the people that
left because you weren't giving
them enough attention, that
is, literally, an unlimited
amount of, not only revenue,
but a tremendous relationship
that you could have lost,
that that person might
have just introduced you
to the head of
marketing at Pepsi,
because Pepsi just lost--
they hated who was giving them
feed-- you never know.
You never know.
So and then also, this
is only showing you
maybe the 20% of people
actually answered the survey.
You should always be paying
attention to the exit surveys.
You should always
be paying attention
to your engagement level.
You should always be
paying attention to
whether or not you're gaining
patrons month by month.
I guess another thing people
can do, go to Declines.
So it looks like you're hovering
somewhere between 15% and 20%
in declines, which I
think is a little high,
because mine's somewhere
between 7% and 12%-ish.
So what I do, probably,
once every four months--
And by declines, these
are credit card processing
declines, for those of you guys
who aren't-- you don't know.
So people pledged.
But then the card was declined.
Right, and I would attribute
most of that to the fact
that things happen.
Cards get compromised.
And a lot of the time you just
need to-- you kind of need
to just email your
Patreons and say,
hey, I just want you
to know that I so
appreciate your support.
It's absolutely amazing.
But I wanted to let you know,
your card's been declined.
And it's totally fine if you
can no longer support me.
I totally understand that.
If you're having a
financial burden,
please, use your own money.
You don't need to give it to me.
But I just wanted you to know.
And a lot of the time,
you'll pick up 4% or 5%
by just going through
all your declines.
And you can go-- if you go to
your Patreon Manager, which
is in your top right.
Oh, top right.
Patreon Manager.
View All Patreons--
You may or may not
want to go there, because
then you open up emails.
But it'll open up
the list of people.
And it will show
you what's declined.
So you can do a really quick
Command-F and type in Declined.
And you can see the number of
declines versus your Patreons.
And then you can
just, literally,
just email those people.
Perfect.
Well, thank you so
much for all this.
I really do appreciate it.
I'd love to hear from you guys
in the comments, if you're
watching this on YouTube,
what your thoughts are
on using Patreon
for your own channel
and how you're using it.
Any tips and ideas that you feel
like could be helpful for me
as I'm developing my
own Patreon page better
with your guys' help, and
with Peter's help, and such.
And any tips and
ideas you guys have,
share them with each other.
I know you'll learn a
lot from each other.
Peter, the community here
on this channel is awesome.
I am learning from
them all the time.
So cool.
And you guys learn from each
other too, so that's cool.
Also, check out Peter's stuff,
because he's really good music.
[SINGING]
And you can check out
his Patreon page also,
if you want to learn some more.
What I'm going to do is, I'm
going to go support Peter.
So what I can do
is-- and this is
a thing I recommend you guys--
I do this in other places too.
Find somebody who's doing
it well, follow them
so that you can learn
from what they're doing.
And the best way to
follow-- like I'll
know what Peter's doing.
I do this with other people who
do a good job with their email
list, for example.
I sign up for their email list.
But then I just watch.
So what kind of content do
I start getting from Peter?
What's the process that
he goes through-- like,
the welcome video.
And then how do I see him
engaging with the content?
It gives you a behind-the-scenes
look at what they're doing.
So you can start learning from
them and replicating them.
So I'm going to go do that.
And if you guys want to support
me on Patreon as I start
working through a lot of this
stuff and figuring it out,
and you want to see the
process I'm going through,
you know how to do it, right--
patreon.com/videocreators.
And, with your help, maybe I can
serve you guys as best as I can
over on Patreon.
And with your feedback, and
interaction, and everything,
looking forward to doing
that with you guys.
So if you want to join me over
there, that would be awesome.
And supporting
this work that I'm
trying to do for you guys to
help you grow your audiences,
so that you can become
financially sustainable
and use that sustainability
to reach people and impact
their lives.
So thanks for hanging out.
Subscribers, if this is
your first time here,
we're all about helping
you guys do that.
And I will see you
guys again soon.
Thanks, bye.
