John Barrett (Announcer and Host): Welcome
to Bitcoins and Gravy, Episode #68. At the
time of this recording, Bitcoins are trading
at $238.00 dollars each, and everybody s favorite,
LTBCoin, is trading at $0.000106 U.S. dollars.
Mmm& Mmm& Mmm& Now THAT S gravy!
[Intro music]
John : Welcome to "Bitcoins and Gravy", and
thanks for joining me today as I podcast,
once again, from East Nashville, Tennessee,
with my trusty Siberian Husky, Maxwell, by
my side. Say hello, Maxwell.
Maxwell : Grrrrr& ..
John : We re two Bitcoin enthusiasts who love
talking about Bitcoins, and sharing what we
learn with you, the listener. Long time listeners,
thank you so much for joining us. New listeners,
we hope you enjoy the show. On today's show
I speak with Daniel Krawisz, one of the founders
of the Satoshi Nakamoto Institute. Daniel
and I discuss the merits, and the pitfalls,
of cryptocurrencies, altcoins and the cypherpunk
movement.
And a special treat, listeners. Halfway through
the interview we get to hear my new single,
Crypto (The Official Cryptocurrency Song)
as performed by our very own Rasta Mon Jon.
This is a short, but very sweet, three minute
concert that you will NOT want to miss.
[Segway music]
John : All right, listeners. Today I have
a special treat. I am speaking with Daniel
Krawisz, the founder of the Satoshi Nakamoto
Institute, and Daniel is speaking with us
today from Austin, Texas. Daniel, welcome
to the show.
Daniel : Thank you, and I m A founder, not
THE founder.
John : Oh, okay. And how many founders ARE
there.
Daniel : There s three. There s me, Michael
Goldstein, and Pierre Rochard. We started
the web site in 2013 because we saw a lack
of interest or less exposure - for the original
cypherpunk ideas that Bitcoin grew out of.
So we decided that we wanted to make sure
these ideas were kept alive, and they had
a nice place on the internet, and we ve been
publishing original cypherpunk articles SINCE
then.
John : Okay.
Daniel : We also write commentary on the Bitcoin
movement. And, of course, the anarchist wing
of the Bitcoin movement has also been marginalized,
so we wanted to keep THAT around.
John : Okay. Now when you use the term cypherpunk
can you describe to people what the actually
means?
Daniel : Sure. The cypherpunks were a movement
in the last 80s and 90s well, that s when
they were most active based around the idea
that cryptography can make people more free.
We can use ideas like encryption, anonymity
networks, and digital cash, to create a world
that helps people to be more independent of
government, and allows them to engage in communication
and trade without government oversight whether
the government likes it or not. And their
ideas have become REALITY today, and Bitcoin
grew out of the cypherpunk movement.
We know Satoshi was a Cypherpunk, because
of the works that he cited. Most of the citations
in the original Bitcoin paper are cypherpunk
papers that were originally published on the
cypherpunk mailing list.
John : Very interesting. So the cypherpunks
movement, you re still part of that movement.
Where do you stand when it comes to the crypto-anarchist
movement?
Daniel : Well, I don t think that there s
a big difference. I would say that that s
about the same. So Tim May one of the founders
of the cypherpunks mailing list also invented
the word crypto-anarchy . So cypherpunks might
be the name of the movement, and crypto-anarchy
might be the name of the ideology. But it
s the same thing. The idea is to build communities
online that are resistant to government intervention
through the use of cryptography.
John : Okay. You know, in my imaginings there
s always a lot going on that we don t see.
There are people working hard to build decentralized
systems, and decentralized platforms, and
working on decentralized projects that the
rest of us don t know anything about yet,
because they haven t come out and TOLD us
yet. What do you think about that?
Daniel : Well, one of the strengths of the
Bitcoin world is that it s all open source.
Anybody can build tools, and the ones that
work will become widely adopted. I had a conversation
with my mother last year, [where] she was
saying, What if China bans Bitcoin? And I
said, Well, what matters is what the people
are doing [who] are not known, [and] are programming
in their basement somewhere. Anyway, I told
her we were more powerful than the Chinese
government. So she thought I was a little
bit crazy after that point. But let me also
mention that I think decentralized is, kind
of, a buzzword right now, and there aren t
necessarily reasons to decentralize everything.
Decentralization tends to be very costly,
and it s difficult to get it to work right.
And it s not necessarily the best thing to
do in all applications. The reason that Bitcoin
works well as a decentralized application
is just that we can t afford to have monetary
institutions, because they all get corrupted.
John : Mmm& Hmm.
Daniel : But if we re dealing with something
that s LESS corruptible it might be excessive
to try to decentralize it.
John : So how do we, - for instance with banking
and finance - I understand it IS much more
difficult, and much more expensive, to decentralize.
Everything decentralized is, kind of, unrealistic
especially RIGHT AWAY. You have this massive
infrastructure, and hierarchical structure,
built over hundreds if not, thousands of years,
leading up to what we have today. So it would
be hard to just bring that down, even though
there are aspects of it that really are legitimately
a house of cards ready to fall.
But how can we, right now, today, celebrate
and work towards systems that are decentralized
systems that don t have the corruption that
the centralized, hierarchical structures have
that we are so used to. How can we work TOWARD
decentralized in an AFFORDABLE way?
Daniel : Sure, Well, I guess the best thing
that anybody can do is try to make Bitcoin
itself more profitable to get into. Of course,
we re already seeing the big banks starting
to show an interest in Bitcoin. Who knows
what will come of that? But really, the more
people that get drawn into the Bitcoin economy,
the better. And if you re not technically
capable of writing your own peer-to-peer application,
or whatever, the best thing is to find some
economic niche that makes Bitcoin a more convenient
place for everybody. The more profits available
in the Bitcoin economy, the better.
And, of course, I don t mean starting startups
. That s something you COULD do, but just
ANY kind of profits. Like if you are a taxi
driver, or a carpenter, or anybody who can
get more of an edge by using Bitcoin rather
than credit cards or the banking system.
John : Right. Or any business that s online
is an obvious candidate for accepting Bitcoins,
right?
Daniel : Yeah. I don t understand why it s
taking so long for Bitcoin to be incorporated
into everything online. It s so easy, they
might as well just do it.
John : I agree. I think a big part of it is
[that] while your average person doesn t recognize
it, people the masses ARE pretty well controlled.
You know, these days, as long as your average
person knows that the big game - whether it
s basketball, baseball, football, hockey,
or whatever the big game is going to be on
this weekend. And, I get to take work off
because I don t have to work on the weekends
and I get to buy a 12-pack of beer and order
a pizza. As long as I can do that, hey man,
life is good. So, if we happen to be invading
another country during that football game,
why do we care? We re busy watching football.
So, I think that people are MUCH more CONTROLLED.
Their thinking is much more controlled through
the public education system. [Like] how they
perceive the world, and how they perceive
the world in relation to the United States.
Those things have been formed by public education.
In certain ways I don t think people realize
how controlled their minds are, when it comes
to things like Bitcoins; when something NEW
comes along. I think it s really difficult
for people to break away from the norm, because
the norm is so comfortable. Even though they
may hate their job, and their team may have
lost last weekend, there s always this COMING
weekend. There s always the chance that their
team is going to win. There s that concert
they want to go to because they love Lady
Gag, or whoever it is she s actually a pretty
good singer. I heard her duet with Tony Bennett.
[laughter] But anyway, I don t want to digress
into that.
So I think that s one of the answers right
there, of why its taking so long, because
people are [under] the normalcy bias . People
are biased towards that which they consider
to be the norm, and anything that s outside
of that norm just seems scary. You know? They
re biased towards that. It's not part of the
norm, so they don t want to know about it.
Daniel : Okay. Well, first of all, WE RE not
attacking some other country. I mean, I don
t consider myself to be personally involved
in any attack, so don t lay it on me.
John : Do you mean you personally?
Daniel : Yeah. Me personally. I m not involved
if the United States attacks anybody.
John : Well, if you ve ever paid any money
in taxes then your tax money has actually
gone& Or, if you pay tax when you go buy a
food item, theoretically, you ve helped and
CONTINUE to help fund these unjust wars.
Daniel : Yeah., well those are all coerced
out of me.
John : I agree with that. But we are all responsible
for our own actions, yes?
Daniel : As to your point about people being
controlled, it s all relative. The way we
live now is so much better than any time in
the past. Especially with the internet being
available, it s very easy for people to have
access to ideas at the tip of their fingertips
that would have been difficult for them to
find earlier.
John : Sure. Even ten or twenty years ago.
But when you talk about the masses, and opportunities,
one thing that would give your average American,
for instance, the OPPORTUNITY that you're
speaking of - to surf the internet, and learn
all of these things - would be [that] they
would have to have the money to HAVE a computer.
They would have to live in a community that
ENCOURAGED that soft of behavior; encouraged
internet behavior [and] had an internet connection,
and encouraged education and seeking new knowledge.
[But] not every community in the United States
- impoverished areas in particular - there's
not a lot of encouraging of that.
Children are born and they're taught that
you either get a welfare check, or you go
to work at a job that you don't like. So a
lot of these people DON'T have access to internet
and all of those things, but your point is
still well taken.
Daniel : Sure. Well, and as to this normalcy
bias, there's a way that [this] can work in
our favor too. The fact that it's now POSSIBLE
to buy and sell contraband online so easy,
and to create an online store that's open
to the public, and that anybody can access
as long as they can download the Tor browser,
that's really going to normalize the black
market in a really big way. We're already
starting to see this. It really is amazing
to me to see articles in mainstream publications
- not in the CRIMINAL section, but in the
technology section - on Silk Road and other
dark markets, and how they work and how they
are improving.
And I'm actually thinking about doing all
of my Christmas shopping this year over the
dark market. I mean, there's plenty of LEGAL
stuff that you can get there too, that my
family might be interested in. I'm not sure
if I can actually do all of my Christmas shopping
that way, but we'll see what I can come up
with.
John : What do you think of OpenBazaar? Do
you like those guys?
Daniel : Yeah. Well I really like their ideas
and enthusiasm. I haven't looked at the code
base, but I've heard it's a real mess. [So]
if anybody is an experienced open source developer
who would like to try to clean it up, they
might need that. But yeah, I'm excited about
the project. It could well turn out to be
a big idea. And, of course, I know some of
the people who are involved in working on
it, so I'm biased.
Well it SEEMS like one of the more worthy
projects out there. I am really looking forward
to being a regular customer on OpenBazaar
once it's up and running. So let's talk about
cryptocurrencies, and "app currencies". You
were the first person I heard use that phrase,
"app currencies", in reference to a currency
that is created in order to fund an app, or
project, an "app-coin , right? And I know
that you're not a big fan of at-coins and
cryptocurrencies, whereas in a lot of ways
I really AM. I'm invested in some of them.
Not a LOT. I'm invested in a LOT of them,
but not a lot in EACH ONE, I should say. So
yeah, let's talk about digital currencies.
Let's talk about cryptocurrencies, because
if I'm not mistaken, Daniel, this is how you
and I first met. It was by way of the show
notes on Let's Talk Bitcoin. After one of
my shows you commented about alt-coins, and
referred me to some articles you had written,
and I READ those articles. That was MONTHS
ago, and now we're finally interviewing.
John : So talk to us about cryptocurrencies,
alt-coins and app-coins. We know that there
are a TON of them out there - a new one every
day - and we know that some of these coins
cannot be trusted [laughter], right? As has
been proven in the past. So talk to us about
alt-coins, and app-coins.
Daniel : Sure. Well yeah, anytime somebody
promises a guaranteed return that's always
a good sign. So here's the basic problem;
for any good to have value, people need to
want to hold it over time. If people want
to hold it for LESS time, then necessarily
the value MUST go down, because you're having
the same amount of the good being held by
fewer people at a time.
So the reason that people hold stock or bonds
over time is obvious. Stocks give dividends
- or at least, theoretically, they MIGHT at
some point in the future, and bonds give interest.
So you HAVE to hold them over time in order
to get that value. Currency does not provide
value over time. If you hold a currency it
just stays the same thing; and, of course,
most currencies will LOSE value over time
due to inflation. The reason that a person
would want to hold a currency over a period
of time -- well, I'm talking about the ULTIMATE
reason that currencies have value; people
can also speculate in currencies. But the
underlying reason that a currency has value
is the network effect between all the people
using it.
So just think if you landed on a desert island,
with a culture that was isolated from the
rest of the world, and everybody was using
beads, or something, as money; something you
know could be easily manufactured in OUR society.
For them it's DIFFICULT to manufacture, and
everybody uses it as money. Well, you're going
to want to HAVE some just because they're
in demand everywhere, so it's easy to make
trades with it. It's not anything about the
beads THEMSELVES that makes them valuable.
It's the fact that everybody is using them
as money.
John : Mmm...Hmm. Everybody recognizes those
as money. yes.
Daniel : Right. So that's the value of money;
that if provides for random, unknown opportunities.
If you have a high cash balance - you're liquid
- you're prepared to take advantage of any
potential trade that might come up. Whereas
if you have your value stored in something
less liquid - like a house or a bunch of gold
bars buried in your yard, or something - then
if a really good opportunity comes along,
you might not have the opportunity to take
advantage of it. Money is for RANDOM opportunities,
and the more as society as a whole keeps in
it's cash balance, the better prepared it
is for random opportunities, and also random
problems. If everybody had a high cash balance
there couldn't be a stock market crash, because
there would be lots of people ready to buy
into it. Now this strategy works best when
people are all using the same money, because
if there are TWO kinds of money in use at
the same time, then that makes more friction
for people to take advantage of these random
opportunities.
So there's always a tendency for a society
to use one money; for one form of money to
emerge as the STANDARD. And the way that this
relates to alt-coins, or app-coins, is that
say you create some distributed system with
some app-coin attached to it - like MaidSafe
or Etherium, or something - first of all,
the app-coin doesn't earn dividends or interest.
So there isn't actually any real relationship
between the success of the app and the value
of the app-coin. There isn't any real reason
that a successful app should mean that the
value of the app-coin goes up, or anything.
There isn't any necessary relationship there,
as there is with a company issuing stock,
because if the company succeeds then eventually
they may start to issue dividends.
John : I know what you're saying, but two
things. One, people like to hold onto things.
Certain people DO like to hoard. Some people
call that "saving for a rainy day . Some people
call that "hoarding". And saving and hoarding,
in certain instances, of course, is subjective.
I may have money in my bank account, and someone
else may say, "What are you doing hoarding
that money?" and I can say, "No. I'm SAVING
it, because I may have an emergency, or I
may NEED it someday." This is all fantasy,
because I don't have any money in the bank,
and I don't live that way. It's, kind of,
a hand-to-mouth situation over here. That's
why you guys need to send me your tips [laughter]
, to keep coffee in the kettle, and the light
on, remember?
But anyway. that's ONE thing; people like
to hold onto things. And the other thing is
that people get excited when everybody else
is doing something...
Daniel : Yeah.
John : So you can look at an alt-coin right
now -or even Bitcoin - and say, "The price
has been just sitting there. It's, kind of,
stagnant." But what if something happens,
and all of a sudden you have a MASS movement
TOWARD this digital currency, and you have,
all of a sudden, not just a slow progression
of more and more people adopting and using
it, but something that looks like exponential
growth towards that. All of a sudden you could
have one of the digital currencies, OVERNIGHT,
be in the news, and everybody talking about
it and buying it, right? As the price went
up and skyrocketed, a lot of people who had
BEEN holding, previously, would be selling
[laughter], right? They'd be selling high,
and a lot of people would be buying in high.
We've seen this before, but I think we cannot
discount human nature, and the potential for
humans to do stupid things, and the potential
for fear and greed to take over when it comes
to digital assets, digital tokens, alt-coins,
app-coins, [and] Bitcoin.
Daniel : Yeah.
John : I think we're going ot continue to
see this, and I think we're going to continue
to see new alt-coins that really have nothing
of substance backing them, [but] I still think
we're going to see new alt-coins that people
get excited about, start trading and hoarding
them, and I think we'll see prices go up and
down and people make money all along the way.
If everybody saw, "Wow! This coin..." - let's
call it the "JohnCoin" - because that's my
name. I like the idea of a JohnCoin, by the
way. I'm joking. Everybody saw the JohnCoin,
"Man, everybody is using he JohnCoin". Well,
there are always going to be people who say,
"Hey wow, if everyone is using it, and there's
a limited supply - let's say there's only
a billion - that means that if everybody in
the WORLD eventually is using this, the value
could go up, just by virtue of the fact that
theres a limited supply, right? And if five
billion people are eventually using this,
"Wow. Certainly it's going to go up in value."
So that's a speculator talking. A speculator
maybe has no interest in tipping people; no
interest in using it ever. But it seems to
me that just speculation alone - even if that
alt-coin never comes to anything - that we
could see the value of that coin go up substantially
over time. Now, of course, it may just CRASH
at some point, because like we're talking
[about], there is no real INTRINSIC value
to it, you know? Or no real true use case
value for a lot of these coins. But it just
seems to me that the speculation aspect alone
could cause a coin -- well, we've seen it
- it has coins to go up, and people have been
able to profit from that.
Daniel : Yeah. We've definitely seen that.
But yeah, as you said, if it's just speculation
driving the value up that's not a sustainable
source of value.
John : Right.
Daniel : So I would say that it COULD go up,
but it will crash back down eventually. [So]
if people understood the economic principles
that I was talking about just now, then that
wouldn't happen anymore, because people WOULDN'T
start to think, "Well, maybe I should hold
onto something because maybe it will go up."
Because if it was widely understood that the
value of money is the network effect, then
there would be fewer people expecting there
to be a lot of speculators.
So the more that I teach people that the value
of money is the network effect, the less that
alt-coins will go up when somebody creates
a new one. And people ARE learning. You have
to create a much more elaborate kind of alt-coin
now in order to attract anybody's attention.
There's much FEWER of them going around, and
they all have all kinds of bells and whistles
attached to them. But my argument is always
that you can't just tell me that an alt-coin
has some interesting feature to convince me
to get some. You would have to convince me
that it will overtake Bitcoin in popularity,
because that's the only way that it can ultimate;ly
succeed. If it doesn't overtake Bitcoin then
it will lose the battle for the network effect.
John : It's hard to say, because like if we
look at elementary schools - back when I was
in elementary school we traded "Now And Laters",
these little square shaped candies. They still
make them, right? We had them in these long
packs, and you'd trade one color for the other
color, and then maybe you'd trade for a baseball
card, or something like that. So this really
was our CURRENCY, and I think that people
would even occasionally trade them for money.
You'd buy one for a nickel from somebody.
So we considered that our OWN currency, because
we were elementary school kids. But it seems
to me that if there are people who are into
gaming, and they know that - for, for instance,
if you and I knew that you could buy this
currency from me, and that would allow you
to get two hours on a specific game. So you
buy that currency from me - let's just say
for US dollars, or for tokens from ANOTHER
game, or Bitcoin - and that allows you to
go, let's say, onto the Darknet and play this
weird game that your parents wouldn't want
you to play, but you can only play it if you
have this special currency.
Well, you are going to really want that currency.
And the kids who get "addicted" - as I call
it - to these games, [are] going to HAVE to
have that currency, and they'll do anything
to get it; paying in Doge , Litecoin - whatever
it takes to get this currency so they can
play that specific game. We could see a future
- people like Andreas Antonopoulos believes
that there could be, down the road, THOUSANDS
of digital currencies - [so] that maybe someone
is having a party and they send out digital
currencies to the people they want to show
up, and in order to be allowed into the party
you have to show on your phone that you have
some of this digital currency - digital token.
You know, you start out the evening with $50
of it - because you've paid for it - and that
allows you to get beers from the keg all evening,
as it chips away. You go up to the guy who's
running the keg - or the bartender - and you
hold up your phone, and it debits off of that.
So it seems to me that we COULD, in the future,
have many, many different currencies that
allow people to do things - both legal and
ILLEGAL - but that it would always go back
to, "What do you need to pay your taxes."
You know. the sad truth. Or to pay your rent,
or mortgage - the other sad truth - and food.
It may always have to go back to something
akin to a federal currency - whether it's
digital or paper, or what-have-you; a debit
system that's based on a tattoo, or a QR code,
or an implant that you have - that sounds
really sad. But we could see that kind of
a future, where [there are] many, many different
currencies, but when all is said and done
you may have a million of those - whatever
they're called; "JohnCoins" - [but] still,
when it comes time to pay your rent, or mortgage,
or taxes, or to buy some food, you've got
to convert it into that currency - whether
it's Bitcoin or US dollars, in order to pay.
So it DOES seem to me that we COULD have many
different currencies that people are playing
with that would only be limited by the human
imagination.
Daniel : Okay. So there are three points I
want to make on that. You talked a long time,
[so] let me make sure I get through all of
them. So the first thing is [that] you were
talking about using this particular currency
to play some game online over the Darknet.
Well, that STILL doesn't mean that anybody
is holding the currency over time. If you're
saving in Bitcoin, you can buy your special
game currency for playing, and then spend
it a fraction of a second later. There isn't
anything to stop people from doing that. That
means that the value of the currency is not
being driven up just because people want to
play the game. Ad once again, there is an
incentive for exchanges to work that way,
and to allow people to hold these extra currencies
for the shortest amount of time possible.
John : Okay. But what happens if that game
gets more and more popular, and then people
realize, "Wow! I can't find that currency!"
You call or email me and [you're like], "Hey,
I can't find this currency, Daniel! Do you
know where I can get this currency?" I don't
know. Finally I find out where I can get it
so I can play my game, and theres just...
Daniel : Well it still doesn't matter. I mean,
if lots of people want to play the game that
doesn't mean that any of them are holding
the currency over an extended period of time.
They all have the incentive to try to hold
it for the LEAST amount of time. That isn't
a good reason to expect the value of the currency
to go up. Okay, so the second point is [that]
you talked about somebody issuing a currency
that was worth stuff at a party [where] they
would exchange it for beer. Well, if I issue
tokens with some sort of guarantee attached
to them, and I said that like, "One JohnCoin
can be exchanged for one beer, or something."
then that IS a sustainable value, but NOT
because it's a currency. It's because it's
a beer substitute, and it's basically like
a banknote that says it's exchangeable for
a certain amount of gold. It's not the note
ITSELF that has value, it's the CONTRACT that
you have with the issuer, that it can be exchanged
for gold.
None of these alt-coins have that kind of
contract attached to them. So if you're talking
about something like MaidSafe http://maidsafe.net/
you have to use the SafeCoins to interact
with the Maidsafe system, but they're also
not guaranteed to be valued for any particular
kind of service, or any amount, or anything.
People can exchange it for ANYTHING. So there
isn't any sustainable value there. So finally,
you were talking about having to exchange
back to pay taxes. There is this argument
that the dollar can maintain value because
you have to pay taxes in it. But that's backwards
for the same reason as the app-coin argument,
It's saying that you have to use the currency
for a particular service, therefore it should
maintain value. But that's an incorrect conclusion,
and of course, if the dollar DOES start to
lose value significantly, and it starts to
look like it may NOT survive, then OF COURSE
the US government is going to stop asking
for taxes to be paid in dollars. They'll ask
for something else. Well anyway, those are
my three points.
John : Yeah, I think those are good points,
but I still would have to go back to the idea
of, let's say, an online game, or just something
that people really want to have. And again,
if that coin - let's say it's the "GameCoin",
for gaming - becomes really popular; people
start really using it, and the exchanges are
offering it, so you can exchange GameCoins
for US dollars, or for Bitcoin, or for anything.
And the GameCoin becomes THE coin kids are
using to play games, somebody out there, immediately
- me, you, [or] somebody down the street - [is]
going to think, "I'm going to hoard this."
Period. I'm going to hoard this.
Because if they know there is a limited supply
of i, right? And there IS a limited supply;
let's say there's only a hundred million GameCoins
ever, [and] maybe they can only be divided
into a TENTH of a coin you can use - whatever.
Somebody out there IS going to - whether rightly
or wrongly; whether they're doing it intelligently
or not - they're going to be hoarding that.
They're going to be holding onto that. Then,
if it becomes difficult to find - for any
reason at all - the value of that is going
to go up, period. Theres no way to STOP that,
right? So the value of that COULD go up over
time, it could go down, it could go back up;
it could be the roller coaster ride.
Daniel : Yeah. Well, I said earlier that these
currencies are subject to speculative bubbles.
And you mentioned this hypothetical person
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possibly for irrational reasons. Well, yeah,
people are irrational all the time. But it's
an economic fact that people also learn, and
that the more successful behavior tends to
win out, and that more people tend to IMITATE
a behavior once it becomes successful.
So there STILL is this inexorable tendency
for one currency to WIN OUT over others, and
even if a currency is ATTACHED to some service
that people want, there is the incentive for
people to try to hold it for as little time
as possible. So, I mean, yeah, it may take
some time for this effect to play out, but
eventually it WILL. So what I would like is
to see more people understand the economics
of currency - especially people in the Bitcoin
world - because that will make these alt-coin
speculative bubbles a lot less SEVERE, and
people will be a lot less prone to being scammed
by the many app-coins going around. And people
ARE learning. It's becoming more and more
difficult to just issue some random currency
and make a profit off of it.
John : Yeah. That's true. And there are so
many of them right now. Do you feel the same
way about alt-coins that aren't necessarily
even TIED to an app?
Daniel : Yeah. They keep changing the argument.
Originally nobody thought about app-coins.
I think David Johnston came up with that term.
So I keep having to update my articles based
on whatever the new thing is that they're
trying to use to wiggle out of the argument.
But yeah, I don't think that for ANY alternative
cryptocurrency people need to argue not just
that it has some special feature, they have
to argue that it's going to DEFEAT Bitcoin
in order to make it a viable investment. You
can't expect it to be an investment if it's
just going to satisfy some NICHE market, because
there AREN'T niches in currencies. There's
always an incentive for ONE to survive and
to take over as much as is possible.
John : I also think, though, that in terms
of gambling and in terms playing the stock
market, it's SO appealing to people. That's
part of human nature, you know? We know that
in Asia THEY like to gamble more than WE do.
At least that's what statistics tell us. The
Chinese like to gamble EVEN MORE than Americans,
and there are a lot of Americans who really
DO love to gamble. And part of that gambling
is playing markets. So as long as we have
that part of human [nature] that [likes] to
gamble [and likes] that risk [and] the "promise"
of a good return for very little work, I think
that we're going to CONTINUE to see exchanges
that, let's say, have LiteCoin [and] DogeCoin.
We can have those for the next 20 or 200 years.
DogeCoin could be around, and [it] could have
NO utility. It could fund a bobsledding team,
[or] a race car driver. It can be used to
fund the basketball player that gets hurt,
or what HAVE YOU.
[It] can have no other utility at all, except
that it's used to fund things in sports, occasionally
- it's the sports funding coin, right? - AND
it's always there in the exchanges, and that
part of human nature that LOVES to gamble
continues to buy and sell, right? You buy
a little bit of Doge low, you wait until it
goes up, you sell, and make a little profit
- and back and forth, right? It seems to me
that as these exchanges continue to have alt-coins
-- let's just name a few; PeerCoin, LiteCoin,
DogeCoin and Bitcoin. Just those four let's
talk about. For the next 20, 30, 40, [or]
50 years those four could ALL be on an exchange,
and the people who like to gamble; buy low
and sell high - just on their DogeCoin; let's
say that's all they ever buy. [They] buy and
sell, buy and sell, and they always make $10
a day, buying and selling DogeCoin. And there
ARE people [who] do that.
So how could we EVER get rid of that part
of human nature that likes to gamble [and]
play the markets? If we CAN'T get rid of that
part of human nature then people are always
going to be buying and selling alt-coins.
Whether those alt-coins are used for anything
AT ALL outside of that buying and selling
- the exchange - may not matter. But the coins
STILL may be around, AND they still theoretically
could go up in value, NOT because of anything
that makes sense in terms of ECONOMICS, but
because of what DOESN'T mske sense in terms
of human nature.
[music for "Crypto (The Official Cryptocurrency
Song)"]
Rasta Mon Jon : Ayaaney! It's so CRYPTO, mon.
The official cryptocurrency song. I hope all
my brothers and sisters around the world will
sing along...
Look at the Cryptocurrency, man it s such
a blur and see A new one every day They got
the pump and dump They ll try to make you
a chump You better watch your back I say I
hear the troll box singing till my ears are
ringin I m afraid just to go to bed And I
m not feeling so well Tell me should I buy
or sell
Whoa no. I'm afraid to buy cause it may be
too high, man And I'm afraid to sell, you
know, because it may be too low.
We got the Android s tokin And the Dopecoin
smokin It s a thing mamma you should see We
got the Potcoin, man it s such a hot coin
All the way from Denver to DC We got the Hashcoin,
now we need a Stash coin Or we ll lose it
all and that s a drag And I say blockchain
schmockchain I d just like to get a bag
[musical interlude with bong smoking sound
effect]
I think I m gonna fly to Denver
I think I m gonna get real high up on a bender
Maybe find a heart that s tender
Help me to lay down and night
You know it s So-ho strange when another exchange
is Creepin in like another bad sin It s a
legitimate fear that they will disappear And
you will never see your money again You tell
me it s the right coin but it s just a Litecoin
Maybe I ll have tea with Charlie Lee
Oh baby and it s blowin my mind Cause I don
t know which one to buy
Blowin my mind Cause I don t know which one
to buy
Blowing my mind I don t know which one to
buy
Oh Lord! Makes me want to cry
Oh Lord, I don't know which one to buy.
Oh, whoa Help me won't you Ayaaney Cause I
don't know which one to buy.
Good Lord I got my feet on the ground But
man my head is spinning round
And all the world is Crypto oh oh oh oh Cryp
tip tip tip tip tip toe
[end of "Crypto (The Official Cryptocurrency
Song)" music]
Daniel : Okay. Well, it's still not something
that's sustainable. Like, I could INVEST in
a casino, because I would expect that it could
continually turn out profits for a long time.
But I don't think that the alt-coin is going
to have a sustainable value. And if you're
saying that they might go up because people
like to gamble, I think that really just PROVES
my POINT that they're basically scams, and
that they don't have sustainable value, because
I would call out a casino as a scam ALSO.
John : Sure.
Daniel : But no. I'm not saying that an app-coin
or alt-coin COULDN'T go up, and that you couldn't
end up making a bunch of money off of it.
But I WOULD like people to realize that the
only reason it would go up is because of a
speculative bubble. And if people are saying
[that] like, "Litecoin uses a different hashing
algorithm, therefore the value is going ot
go up." Or somebody says, "MaidSafeCoin is
attached to he MaidSafe network, therefore
the value is going to go up." Those are invalid
arguments. If they go up, that's not the reason
that they're going up. It's because people
have been fooled, or because they're just
speculating for no reason.
John : Right. It DOES seem to me, though,
that there could be some examples. For instance,
Dogecoin - to use the example of funding a
race car driver, or the Jamaican bobsled team.
They were actually funded by people sending
in millions and millions of Dogecoins, and
helping to fund that.
Now they came in dead last in the Olympics
in China a few years back, right? But it doesn't
matter. It, kind of, proved that you could
take this ridiculous coin that started out
as a joke, and you can show it to people and
say, "Hey, if you think this is, kind of,
a cool idea - to be able to FUND a race car
driver, or a Jamaican bobsled team - and you
can do it really quickly over your computer,
without involving Paypal, or your credit card,
or anything like that; you can fund it with
Dogecoin. That's something that's, kind of,
fun because within certain people - I would
say within ALL of us in certain instances
- there is a little bit of philanthropy. There
is a little bit of us that likes to help,
let's say, the underdog. Right? We'll throw
a dollar toward the underdog if we think that
that might help the underdog win over the
bid dog - the top dog.
So you COULD have a coin - like Dogecoin - that
could end up being a coin that funds underdogs
for the next one hundred years, and someone
would say, "Dogecoin has no intrinsic value,
or no real utility." And someone would say,
"Are you crazy? This thing has funded 50,000
different little league sports teams, and
bought them jerseys and equipment. You know?
And it's funded all kinds of race car drivers.
So someone could look back and [ask], "When
did it start?" Well, it started in 2012, or
whatever. They could look back and say, "Wow!
From the beginning, and all the way through
to the present - a hundred years - this coin
has actually been really VALUABLE for what
people want to do, and we know there's a limited
supply, and people WANT to take part in that.
So the value of Dogecoin has gone up and up,
NOT because of something that makes sense,
but because of something that DOESN'T makes
sense; something that's unexpected, [and]
something that just has to do with what humans
do. What do you think of that? Is that crazy?
Daniel : Well, yeah. In the long term things
have value because of things that make sense.
In the short term they can have value for
reasons that DON'T make sense. And I don't
think that Dogecoin has been doing very well
lately.
It makes a lot MORE sense to have a goofy
currency movement funding race car drivers
and Jamaican bobsled teams, and so on, [which]
just makes more sense to do that with Bitcoin.
I mean, you can have a goofy subculture that's
attached to Bitcoin, and that's probably going
to be a lot more economically beneficial to
everybody.
John : I agree with you, although I DO know
that certain people THRIVE on being NOT in
the mainstream. If everybody's doing Bitcoin,
"Hey, we want to do our own thing over here.
It's called JohnCoin. It's called Dogecoin.
Nobody else is doing this. We have our own
community. We talk our own talk on our forums."
People like being on a team that's not THAT
team, or THAT team. It's OUR OWN team. Again,
that's part of human nature that doesn't necessarily
make sense. It's like, "Guys! Guys! Please.
Just use Bitcoin." They're like, "No. No.
No. We have our OWN thing."
I think it's part of the unpredictable nature
of human beings that might actually be the
reason why down the road in the future we
see many different cryptocurrencies, [and]
many different alt-coins, for the next one
hundred years. Again, I don't know that it's
going to make sense economically, but if you
look at your average person and you ask them
about money, or economics, or finance. I mean,
people really don't know anything. You know?
I was taught NOTHING in high school. Nothing.
Zero, about finance. I didn't even know how
to write a check. I was in college before
a girlfriend of mine taught me how to write
a check. How pathetic is that?
In other words, your average American - let's
just talk about America - [doesn't] know ANYTHING
about finance. We don't know anything about
money. Your average American, when it comes
to politics, they know nothing REALLY about
the structure of our government, or what a
corporatocracy is, or an oligarchy. Or what
anarchy is. You ask your average person and
they'll say, "Uh, I don't know. Molotov cocktails,
ski masks, breaking windows. Isn't that anarchy?
A complete breakdown of society? Isn't THAT
what anarchy means?"
That's what your average American thinks that
anarchy is. Why? Because they were poorly
educated. Or, they were well-educated to believe
specific things through misinformation. /// /// /// Daniel
: All that I've said is that it's not a valid
argument to say that an alt-coin will go up
because of some feature it has, or because
of some niche market that it might serve.
There isn't a causal connection there. It
could STILL go up, because people are fooled,
but that's my only point, is that that isn't
a valid argument. And also that people DO
learn over time. If you're not taking the
long view it may seem like nothing is happening,
but people's behaviors definitely IMPROVE
as they get used to a situation. So I don't
know if the alt-coin thing is ever going to
die down completely, but I really think that
my predictions from 2013 and 2014, that the
movement would decline and dissipate quite
a bit, are being borne out.
Yeah. I think that makes sense. I think I
TEND to agree with you about that, although
the Solarcoin [is a] coin which actually incentivizes
people to use solar energy. Individuals and
companies can earn Solarcoin by putting a
solar panel on their roof. They can then convert
that Solarcoin into Bitcoin, or US dollars,
or whatever they want to, if they can find
an exchange that deals in Solarcoin - and
there ARE some out there. So I think an alt-coin,
a cryptocurrency, could have utility that
could make it stand out from these other app-coins,
and these other ones that are exactly like
what you are saying; basically a high-risk
endeavor, and really not worth - for most
of them - putting your money into. You're,
kind of, throwing your money down a hole.
But when it comes to something like Solarcoin,
I don't know man. It's such a great CONCEPT.
It would just be a matter of getting it really
off the ground, and getting more people involved
in it, then you'd see great utility in this
coin.
Daniel : Okay. Well I haven't investigated
Solarcoin, so I can't address the claims that
you've made about it. But I am so cynical
about alt-coins that I would GUESS that it
doesn't work the way that you THINK it does,
because I've seen this so many times. However,
as I mentioned earlier, you COULD have a coin
that is contractually related to some other
product or good - like a coin that is exchangeable
for beer - and if you had the issuer, by contract,
say that the coin could be exchanged for something
or other then it COULD maintain value. But,
of course, in that case it is no longer a
distributed system, because its value depends
on the promise of the issuer.
John : Right. Some of the ones I saw coming
up early on, I know they're gone now, and
exchanges will drop these coins. There's hundreds
of them now, right?It just seems crazy. What
seems crazy, too, is that there are tens of
thousands of people - mostly YOUNG people
- who continue to trade these digital currencies
- these cryptocurrencies - and make a little
bit of money. Some of these traders make $5
a day, because they bought low and sold high,
and they do the same thing the OPPOSITE way,
or the same thing the SAME way the next day.
They make a little money off of this. So it's
a way for this new subculture to do something
on the computer besides just surfing, and
gaming, right? They can actually really be
a TRADER - a day trader. They can spend their
days doing whatever else they do in the summertime,
when they're not in school; I don't know - smoking
pot, sitting around in their underwear, nuking
Hot-Pockets in the microwave, drinking tall
glasses of cold ilk from mom and dad's [fridge].
And they can make a little bit of money. They
can make $5 a day. It seems to me that that
keeps them off the streets.
Daniel : Okay. Well, if you're making $5 a
day I'm not too impressed with that. Instead
of day trading, maybe they can read a cryptography
book and learn how to program.
John : [laughter] Exactly. Maybe they're doing
that at the same time, and maybe their weekly
allowance from their parents is only $10.
So if they're making $5 a day this is huge!
But there are PLENTY of people out there who
are day trading who are making more than $5
a day. I knew a gal who, just through trading
- this is going back a year; she was helping
people trade too. She was an HONEST person,
which is HUGE, if you can get people to trust
you, and show that return. She was trading,
using other people's Bitcoins AND her own,
[and] she was making about a Bitcoin a day
- day after day after day after day. That's
HUGE!
And she wasn't just dealing in Bitcoin She
was dealing in other digital currencies. So
there really IS money to be made. I also read
an article by a guy who was a day trader - A
REAL day trader in the REAL markets - if we
can differentiate. And this guy said [that]
when he went over to the Bitcoin markets it
was so easy, right? He said, "A day there
was like a MONTH in the REAL market." Because
he could make SO MUCH money. He said,"I don't
WANT to be doing this anymore. I'm TIRED of
it. But the guy was making like $10,000 a
week, because it was so easy for him, because
he understood trading so well, and he had
entered into a child's version of trading
that to him was just so easy.
So yeah, there is definitely money to be made.
I think that [alone] - if for no other reason
- could keep digital currencies alive for
a long, long time. Whether they have any utility
or not, just the fact that they do go up and
down. You can take Dogecoin, and it can stay
basically the exact same price for the next
hundred years, but if it fluctuated just enough
- up and down, up and down, up and down - every
single day or week, that equals an opportunity
to make a little bit of money. And that could
be the ONLY reason that Dogecoin continues
on, [or] lives, is that opportunity to make
a little bit of money every single day.
So, markets have a property called "anti-inductivity",
which means that the more you try to learn
about them, the more obscure they become,
because your process of investigating them
means that OTHER people will learn to be more
sophisticated traders, and their strategies
will be less discernible and more complicated.
And we've seen this with Bitcoin over time.
So I know what you're talking about about
trading with Bitcoin, because I remember when
I first read about stock market patterns I
was like, "This is so weird." because I saw
these weird patterns in the pages that explain
technical analysis, [but] I never saw them
in real life.
Then when I first got interested in Bitcoin
I was like, "Oh yeah. There are those technical
patterns that I've read about. They're very
obvious." But that's becoming less and less
so over time, as the traders in Bitcoin are
becoming more and more sophisticated. And
the same thing will happen with ALL markets.
Eventually they'll become more and more obscure.
This ALSO isn't a sustainable source of value.
As a market matures, only the best traders
are going to be capable of making money off
of it as time goes.
John : Yeah. I think we'll look back to these
days, and we'll look at how EASY things were;
how easy it was to get on an exchange, here
in 2015 and 2016, and to swap some coins.
Now we also have Shapeshift https://shapeshift.io,
which allows you to just put your Bitcoin
in there, and turn it into anything else you
want to, just magically, right? And we have
people who are heading up that company who
have a GREAT reputation in the Bitcoin world.
So yeah, I think we'll look back on these
days as, "Ah! The good old days, when Doge
was funding bobsled teams, and it was easy
to shift THIS alt-coin into THAT alt-coin,
and back to Bitcoin if you wanted to. And
I think these will be looked at as simpler
times when people were still having a lot
of fun with it. [But] I think it's going to
get a lot more business-oriented, and a lot
more competitive down the road.
I don't know. What do you think about the
whole POLITICAL side of it? Because, you know,
Bitcoin started out with a bang, and you had
crypto-anarchists - and you STILL do - saying,
"Look, this COULD be a major wrecking ball
for the financial system." Right? For the
international banking CARTEL, if you will.
But it's looking like it's starting to turn
into a New York Stock Exchange type of game,
where the Bitcoin price may very well be controlled.
What do you think about that?
Daniel : Well, first of all, Shapeshift is
actually an example of something that I was
talking about earlier; about this tendency
to make it easier for people to switch between
different currencies, and that this will make
it EASIER for people to hold the marginal
currencies for shorter periods of time, and
thereby drive the value down. And as to Bitcoin's
price, for most of Bitcoin's history the price
of Bitcoin followed, very closely, the Metcalf
value .
There's this idea called "Metcalf's Law",
which says that the value of a network should
be related to the square of the number of
participants, and this is because the number
of connections in the network is proportional
to the square of the number of participants.
So if there are FOUR people in a network [then]
there are SIX potential connections, and if
there are FIVE people there are TEN potential
connections, and so on. But for the last year
or so - not quite - Bitcoin has diverged quite
a bit from the Metcalf value, and the price
of Bitcoin has trended DOWNWARD, decaying
exponentially, whereas the Metcalf value has
continued to go UP.
So Bitcoin still seems to be growing as far
as the trade within it is concerned, but the
value has not reflective this growth, as it
would have in the past. So I don't really
know how to explain that, but I think the
most plausible explanation I have heard proposed
so far has to do with the fact that the exchanges
can operate on a fractional reserve basis
without anybody being able to PROVE that they're
behaving properly. So effectively, it becomes
possible to create Bitcoin substitutes out
of thin air - which is your balance IN the
exchange.
If you have an account at an exchange you
have a certain balance, which is how much
the exchange owes you, but you don't know
if the exchange actually has in its possession
the same number of Bitcoins as the sum of
all the balances of the people holding accounts.
John : Right.
Daniel : And, of course, we know that Mount
Gox was NEVER operating on a full reserve
basis, at least not since very early in its
history. And because there's no way to prove
that the OTHER exchanges are solvent, I would
ASSUME that most of them are probably NOT.
So I think what we are seeing is an increase
in the effective SUPPLY of Bitcoins as a result
of the fact that the exchanges can create
substitutes. And some people are working on
ways of proving an exchange's balance.
I think Peter Todd came up with some prescription
like this. Nobody is using it yet, but eventually,
once it becomes more normal for exchanges
to attempt to prove their balance - which
will HOPEFULLY happen - then we'll be able
to test this theory. And if it's right then
we could see some period, at some point, when
suddenly a ton of exchanges are put out of
business, because too many people are trying
to withdraw from them. Or if there is some
OTHER cause, then I don't know WHAT we'll
see.
John : Or we could see two different STYLES
of managing an exchange; one, in a "shadow
banking" sort of a way, and one in a completely
transparent way. I guess that's possible in
the same way that we have charities that are
completely transparent, and other charities
that are completely opaque.
So, before we go, tell me a little bit about
the Satoshi Nakamoto Institute, and what you
all are aiming to do moving forward.
Daniel : Well, we wanted to make sure that
the anarchist wing of the Bitcoin movement
would not be silenced - well, it's not like
people are out silencing people...
John : Not yet. Not yet they aren't [laughter].
Daniel : But there's definitely an attempt
to try to marginalize the anarchist wing.
We want to keep THAT alive, and we want to
keep the cypherpunk intellectual tradition
alive. And a third goal - that I didn't mention
earlier -is to try to incorporate the ideas
of Austrian Economics as well. So the Austrians
have been pretty hostile to Bitcoin in the
past - although that has been changing quite
a bit. It's, kind of, annoying because we
keep reading articles by Austrians that say
things that we've written about a while ago.
The Austrians are gradually coming around
to Bitcoin. So those are basically our goals;
keep the cypherpunk intellectual tradition
alive, give the anarchist wing of the Bitcoin
movement a voice, and bring in Austrian Economics
ideas, and keep those current in Bitcoin as
well.
John : I think those are ALL important goals
you guys have, and I applaud the Satoshi Nakamoto
Institute.
Daniel : Oh, and also let me mention [that]
PIerre is working on a Bitcoin accounting
software, which is something that has been
lacking from Bitcoin since the beginning.
So we might have THAT to contrbute pretty
soon, too. I mean, it's mostly his project,
but we'll promote it through the Nakamoto
Institute too.
John : So, final question. And thank you so
much, Daniel, for taking time to interview
today. What do you see as the future for Bitcoin
the currency, in terms of price?
Daniel : Well, either infinity or zero. I
don't think that I can specify it more concretely
than that. If it fails, it will REALLY fail.
And if it succeeds it will REALLY succeed.
John : If you had to put your money on infinity
or zero, which one would you put your money
on?
Daniel : Well, I definitely have some Bitcoin,
so I guess that means that I'm putting my
money on infinity.
John : [laughter] Nice. Yeah, I'm also putting
my money on infinitely. I'm not sure what's
going to happen when the New York Stock Exchange
and the powers that be get a hold of Bitcoin.
There could be a lot of horseplay there. I
have no idea. That doesn't mean [that] any
of the UTILITY goes out of Bitcoin. That's
what I think some people fail to understand.
You know, Bitcoin is what it is, in terms
of the protocol, and it's really unstoppable
at this point, but there are lots of tricks
that the banksters could play if they decided
to play their cards as it seems like they
always do.
Daniel : As to the point you just made, one
of the nice things about cyrptography is that
it's definitely easier to prove your Bitcoin
balance than it would be to, say, prove that
you have all of the gold that you're supposed
to. And eventually there WILL be systems that
people can use to prove they have what they
claim to. Once those become current it's going
to be much more difficult for Bitcoin to operate
on a fractional reserve basis. Manipulating
credit - well, just creating credit - [is]
really the only trick the bankers have, and
if they can't do it without people noticing,
then they don't really have much of a trick
anymore.
So eventually, once an independent accounting
system becomes possible - that people can
use to prove their balances - then we can
start demanding that people USE it, and that
they show they have what they claim. When
that happens [it] will be a big improvement.
John : Yeah. I think so, absolutely. I look
forward to transparency in ALL of those arenas,
and I hope that it happens. Can you tell our
listeners an easy way for them to get a hold
of you if they want to continue the conversation
with you?
Daniel : My Twitter handle is @DanielKrawisz.
John : All right. Listeners, you have been
listening to Daniel Krawisz, one of the founders
of the Satoshi Nakamoto Institute. Daniel,
thank you so much for taking time to be on
the show, and for sharing with us your ideas
about finance, and Bitcoin, and all of that.
Great stuff, man. Thank you so much.
Daniel : Thank YOU. I enjoyed my time on your
show. It was nice to meet you.
John : You too. Take care, and I will talk
to you some time down the road.
Daniel : Okay. Bye.
[musical interlude]
John : I know that it may sound absurd, but
I have for you a magic word. Today the magic
word is CRYPTO , as in the sentence, "I hope
everyone enjoyed my new song "Crypto : The
Official Cryptocurrency Song".
I'd like to thank my guests on today's show,
Daniel Krawisz, one of the founders of the
Satoshi Nakamoto Institute, for his insight
into the value of Bitcoin versus the value
of cryptocurrencies. AND I would like to thank
Johnny Mon, the extraordinary reggae singer
who was featured on my incredible new single
"Crypto : The Official Cryptocurrency Song".
And as a final note, ladies and gentlemen,
I have to apologize for not being here last
week. I hate to do that. I hated to miss a
show. Really, really, I truly, I did. I have
problems with my hands - my right hand. I
had surgery on it 30 years ago. All of my
metacarpels are fused together, so [laughter]
many, many years of using power tools, woodworking
tools, shovels, hoes, rakes, lawnmowers, and
now lots of typing and audio editing - using
ProTools - my hands are thrashed. So in the
song Crypto you 'll hear the line in the bridge,
"I think I'm gonna fly to Denver.", and my
idea is that maybe there is some medicinal
something there that I can either take as
a tonic, or smoke possibly, that would ease
my pain. The left have is now experiencing
something that;'s kind of like carpel tunnel
syndrome, but it's not. In case anyone is
curious about why I had my surgery on my right
hand 30 years ago you can look it up. It's
called "Keinbocks disease". It's not a disease
you can catch, but it's called kKeinbocks.
You can find it, anyway. It has something
to do with one of the bones in the forearm
being too short.
Anyway, those are MY problems, not yours.
But that is all to say that doing this show
for over a year, and doing all of the editing
and everything, for very, very little money
[laughter] is very taxing. If I were making
$100 per episode it would feel so good, like,
"Hey, I'm doing something that I love AND
I'm making money at it!" Right? Something
we would ALL love to be doing. Well, some
of you guys out there ARE actually working
jobs that you actually really love, and you're
making good money. So imagine if a hundred
of the three to four thousand listeners each
week sent me a dollar each week in tips. I
mean, honest to God, think about it. I'm working
my ass off over here. It's really difficult
for me, AND I have two other full-time jobs.
Think about it guys. I'm putting out a LOT
of content every week - with the exception
of last week, I admit it; I skipped a week,
okay? I'm putting out a TON of content every
week, working my butt off, and working my
hands and fingers down to the bone - almost
literally - and I could use some tips.
Again, if just 100 or 200 of you would sent
me 50 cents. Now at this point I sound like
I'm begging, and I'll tell you the reason
why. It's because I AM begging! [laughter]
Okay. That's enough. Over and out. Talk to
you guys later. Send me some tips, please.
[music and lyrics to Ode to Satoshi song]
John Barrett : Now climb aboard y all! This
train is bound for glory& and there s plenty
of room for all&
Well Satoshi Nakamoto, that's a name I love
to say, And we don't know much about him,
but he came to save the day. When he wrote
about the way things are, And the way things
ought to be, He gave us all a protocol this
world had never seen.
Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old blockchain,
Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign,
gonna reign, Till everybody knows, everybody
knows, Till everybody knows your name.
[guitar instrumental]
Down the road it will be told about the Death
of Old Mount Gox, About traders trading alter
coins, and miners mining blocks. But them
good old boys back in Illinois, And on down
through Tennessee, See they don't care to
be a millionaire, They're just wanting to
be free.
Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old Blockchain,
Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign,
gonna reign, Till everybody knows, everybody
knows, Till everybody knows your name.
[instrumental interlude]
From the ghettos of Calcutta, to the halls
of Parliament, While the bankers count our
money out for every government. Oh, Bitcoin
flies on through the skies of virtuality,
A promise to deliver us from age-old tyranny.
Oh Bitcoin! As you're going into the old blockchain,
Oh Bitcoin! I know you're going to reign,
gonna reign, Till everybody knows, everybody
knows, Till everybody knows your name. Till
everybody knows, everybody knows, Till everybody
knows your -- "Give me some exposure" -- Everybody
knows your name.
Singing, Oh Lord, pass me some more, Oh Lord,
before I have to go. Oh Lord, pass me some
more, Oh Lord . . . before I have to . . . Go
. . .
[instrumental finale]
[applause]
John : Oh-ho! Thank you East Nashville! Y
all be good to each other out there, ya hear?
Maxwell : Grrrr......
